>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> OpenAI The company, and ChatGPT have taken the world by storm. Microsoft reportedly is investing an additional 10 billion dollars into the company. But in our view, while the hype around ChatGPT is justified, we don't believe OpenAI will lock up the market with its first mover advantage. Rather, we believe that success in this market will be directly proportional to the quality and quantity of data that a technology company has at its disposal, and the compute power that it could deploy to run its system. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we unpack the excitement around ChatGPT, and debate the premise that the company's early entry into the space may not confer winner take all advantage to OpenAI. And to do so, we welcome CUBE collaborator, alum, Sarbjeet Johal, (chuckles) and John Furrier, co-host of the Cube. Great to see you Sarbjeet, John. Really appreciate you guys coming to the program. >> Great to be on. >> Okay, so what is ChatGPT? Well, actually we asked ChatGPT, what is ChatGPT? So here's what it said. ChatGPT is a state-of-the-art language model developed by OpenAI that can generate human-like text. It could be fine tuned for a variety of language tasks, such as conversation, summarization, and language translation. So I asked it, give it to me in 50 words or less. How did it do? Anything to add? >> Yeah, think it did good. It's large language model, like previous models, but it started applying the transformers sort of mechanism to focus on what prompt you have given it to itself. And then also the what answer it gave you in the first, sort of, one sentence or two sentences, and then introspect on itself, like what I have already said to you. And so just work on that. So it it's self sort of focus if you will. It does, the transformers help the large language models to do that. >> So to your point, it's a large language model, and GPT stands for generative pre-trained transformer. >> And if you put the definition back up there again, if you put it back up on the screen, let's see it back up. Okay, it actually missed the large, word large. So one of the problems with ChatGPT, it's not always accurate. It's actually a large language model, and it says state of the art language model. And if you look at Google, Google has dominated AI for many times and they're well known as being the best at this. And apparently Google has their own large language model, LLM, in play and have been holding it back to release because of backlash on the accuracy. Like just in that example you showed is a great point. They got almost right, but they missed the key word. >> You know what's funny about that John, is I had previously asked it in my prompt to give me it in less than a hundred words, and it was too long, I said I was too long for Breaking Analysis, and there it went into the fact that it's a large language model. So it largely, it gave me a really different answer the, for both times. So, but it's still pretty amazing for those of you who haven't played with it yet. And one of the best examples that I saw was Ben Charrington from This Week In ML AI podcast. And I stumbled on this thanks to Brian Gracely, who was listening to one of his Cloudcasts. Basically what Ben did is he took, he prompted ChatGPT to interview ChatGPT, and he simply gave the system the prompts, and then he ran the questions and answers into this avatar builder and sped it up 2X so it didn't sound like a machine. And voila, it was amazing. So John is ChatGPT going to take over as a cube host? >> Well, I was thinking, we get the questions in advance sometimes from PR people. We should actually just plug it in ChatGPT, add it to our notes, and saying, "Is this good enough for you? Let's ask the real question." So I think, you know, I think there's a lot of heavy lifting that gets done. I think the ChatGPT is a phenomenal revolution. I think it highlights the use case. Like that example we showed earlier. It gets most of it right. So it's directionally correct and it feels like it's an answer, but it's not a hundred percent accurate. And I think that's where people are seeing value in it. Writing marketing, copy, brainstorming, guest list, gift list for somebody. Write me some lyrics to a song. Give me a thesis about healthcare policy in the United States. It'll do a bang up job, and then you got to go in and you can massage it. So we're going to do three quarters of the work. That's why plagiarism and schools are kind of freaking out. And that's why Microsoft put 10 billion in, because why wouldn't this be a feature of Word, or the OS to help it do stuff on behalf of the user. So linguistically it's a beautiful thing. You can input a string and get a good answer. It's not a search result. >> And we're going to get your take on on Microsoft and, but it kind of levels the playing- but ChatGPT writes better than I do, Sarbjeet, and I know you have some good examples too. You mentioned the Reed Hastings example. >> Yeah, I was listening to Reed Hastings fireside chat with ChatGPT, and the answers were coming as sort of voice, in the voice format. And it was amazing what, he was having very sort of philosophy kind of talk with the ChatGPT, the longer sentences, like he was going on, like, just like we are talking, he was talking for like almost two minutes and then ChatGPT was answering. It was not one sentence question, and then a lot of answers from ChatGPT and yeah, you're right. I, this is our ability. I've been thinking deep about this since yesterday, we talked about, like, we want to do this segment. The data is fed into the data model. It can be the current data as well, but I think that, like, models like ChatGPT, other companies will have those too. They can, they're democratizing the intelligence, but they're not creating intelligence yet, definitely yet I can say that. They will give you all the finite answers. Like, okay, how do you do this for loop in Java, versus, you know, C sharp, and as a programmer you can do that, in, but they can't tell you that, how to write a new algorithm or write a new search algorithm for you. They cannot create a secretive code for you to- >> Not yet. >> Have competitive advantage. >> Not yet, not yet. >> but you- >> Can Google do that today? >> No one really can. The reasoning side of the data is, we talked about at our Supercloud event, with Zhamak Dehghani who's was CEO of, now of Nextdata. This next wave of data intelligence is going to come from entrepreneurs that are probably cross discipline, computer science and some other discipline. But they're going to be new things, for example, data, metadata, and data. It's hard to do reasoning like a human being, so that needs more data to train itself. So I think the first gen of this training module for the large language model they have is a corpus of text. Lot of that's why blog posts are, but the facts are wrong and sometimes out of context, because that contextual reasoning takes time, it takes intelligence. So machines need to become intelligent, and so therefore they need to be trained. So you're going to start to see, I think, a lot of acceleration on training the data sets. And again, it's only as good as the data you can get. And again, proprietary data sets will be a huge winner. Anyone who's got a large corpus of content, proprietary content like theCUBE or SiliconANGLE as a publisher will benefit from this. Large FinTech companies, anyone with large proprietary data will probably be a big winner on this generative AI wave, because it just, it will eat that up, and turn that back into something better. So I think there's going to be a lot of interesting things to look at here. And certainly productivity's going to be off the charts for vanilla and the internet is going to get swarmed with vanilla content. So if you're in the content business, and you're an original content producer of any kind, you're going to be not vanilla, so you're going to be better. So I think there's so much at play Dave (indistinct). >> I think the playing field has been risen, so we- >> Risen and leveled? >> Yeah, and leveled to certain extent. So it's now like that few people as consumers, as consumers of AI, we will have a advantage and others cannot have that advantage. So it will be democratized. That's, I'm sure about that. But if you take the example of calculator, when the calculator came in, and a lot of people are, "Oh, people can't do math anymore because calculator is there." right? So it's a similar sort of moment, just like a calculator for the next level. But, again- >> I see it more like open source, Sarbjeet, because like if you think about what ChatGPT's doing, you do a query and it comes from somewhere the value of a post from ChatGPT is just a reuse of AI. The original content accent will be come from a human. So if I lay out a paragraph from ChatGPT, did some heavy lifting on some facts, I check the facts, save me about maybe- >> Yeah, it's productive. >> An hour writing, and then I write a killer two, three sentences of, like, sharp original thinking or critical analysis. I then took that body of work, open source content, and then laid something on top of it. >> And Sarbjeet's example is a good one, because like if the calculator kids don't do math as well anymore, the slide rule, remember we had slide rules as kids, remember we first started using Waze, you know, we were this minority and you had an advantage over other drivers. Now Waze is like, you know, social traffic, you know, navigation, everybody had, you know- >> All the back roads are crowded. >> They're car crowded. (group laughs) Exactly. All right, let's, let's move on. What about this notion that futurist Ray Amara put forth and really Amara's Law that we're showing here, it's, the law is we, you know, "We tend to overestimate the effect of technology in the short run and underestimate it in the long run." Is that the case, do you think, with ChatGPT? What do you think Sarbjeet? >> I think that's true actually. There's a lot of, >> We don't debate this. >> There's a lot of awe, like when people see the results from ChatGPT, they say what, what the heck? Like, it can do this? But then if you use it more and more and more, and I ask the set of similar question, not the same question, and it gives you like same answer. It's like reading from the same bucket of text in, the interior read (indistinct) where the ChatGPT, you will see that in some couple of segments. It's very, it sounds so boring that the ChatGPT is coming out the same two sentences every time. So it is kind of good, but it's not as good as people think it is right now. But we will have, go through this, you know, hype sort of cycle and get realistic with it. And then in the long term, I think it's a great thing in the short term, it's not something which will (indistinct) >> What's your counter point? You're saying it's not. >> I, no I think the question was, it's hyped up in the short term and not it's underestimated long term. That's what I think what he said, quote. >> Yes, yeah. That's what he said. >> Okay, I think that's wrong with this, because this is a unique, ChatGPT is a unique kind of impact and it's very generational. People have been comparing it, I have been comparing to the internet, like the web, web browser Mosaic and Netscape, right, Navigator. I mean, I clearly still remember the days seeing Navigator for the first time, wow. And there weren't not many sites you could go to, everyone typed in, you know, cars.com, you know. >> That (indistinct) wasn't that overestimated, the overhyped at the beginning and underestimated. >> No, it was, it was underestimated long run, people thought. >> But that Amara's law. >> That's what is. >> No, they said overestimated? >> Overestimated near term underestimated- overhyped near term, underestimated long term. I got, right I mean? >> Well, I, yeah okay, so I would then agree, okay then- >> We were off the charts about the internet in the early days, and it actually exceeded our expectations. >> Well there were people who were, like, poo-pooing it early on. So when the browser came out, people were like, "Oh, the web's a toy for kids." I mean, in 1995 the web was a joke, right? So '96, you had online populations growing, so you had structural changes going on around the browser, internet population. And then that replaced other things, direct mail, other business activities that were once analog then went to the web, kind of read only as you, as we always talk about. So I think that's a moment where the hype long term, the smart money, and the smart industry experts all get the long term. And in this case, there's more poo-pooing in the short term. "Ah, it's not a big deal, it's just AI." I've heard many people poo-pooing ChatGPT, and a lot of smart people saying, "No this is next gen, this is different and it's only going to get better." So I think people are estimating a big long game on this one. >> So you're saying it's bifurcated. There's those who say- >> Yes. >> Okay, all right, let's get to the heart of the premise, and possibly the debate for today's episode. Will OpenAI's early entry into the market confer sustainable competitive advantage for the company. And if you look at the history of tech, the technology industry, it's kind of littered with first mover failures. Altair, IBM, Tandy, Commodore, they and Apple even, they were really early in the PC game. They took a backseat to Dell who came in the scene years later with a better business model. Netscape, you were just talking about, was all the rage in Silicon Valley, with the first browser, drove up all the housing prices out here. AltaVista was the first search engine to really, you know, index full text. >> Owned by Dell, I mean DEC. >> Owned by Digital. >> Yeah, Digital Equipment >> Compaq bought it. And of course as an aside, Digital, they wanted to showcase their hardware, right? Their super computer stuff. And then so Friendster and MySpace, they came before Facebook. The iPhone certainly wasn't the first mobile device. So lots of failed examples, but there are some recent successes like AWS and cloud. >> You could say smartphone. So I mean. >> Well I know, and you can, we can parse this so we'll debate it. Now Twitter, you could argue, had first mover advantage. You kind of gave me that one John. Bitcoin and crypto clearly had first mover advantage, and sustaining that. Guys, will OpenAI make it to the list on the right with ChatGPT, what do you think? >> I think categorically as a company, it probably won't, but as a category, I think what they're doing will, so OpenAI as a company, they get funding, there's power dynamics involved. Microsoft put a billion dollars in early on, then they just pony it up. Now they're reporting 10 billion more. So, like, if the browsers, Microsoft had competitive advantage over Netscape, and used monopoly power, and convicted by the Department of Justice for killing Netscape with their monopoly, Netscape should have had won that battle, but Microsoft killed it. In this case, Microsoft's not killing it, they're buying into it. So I think the embrace extend Microsoft power here makes OpenAI vulnerable for that one vendor solution. So the AI as a company might not make the list, but the category of what this is, large language model AI, is probably will be on the right hand side. >> Okay, we're going to come back to the government intervention and maybe do some comparisons, but what are your thoughts on this premise here? That, it will basically set- put forth the premise that it, that ChatGPT, its early entry into the market will not confer competitive advantage to >> For OpenAI. >> To Open- Yeah, do you agree with that? >> I agree with that actually. It, because Google has been at it, and they have been holding back, as John said because of the scrutiny from the Fed, right, so- >> And privacy too. >> And the privacy and the accuracy as well. But I think Sam Altman and the company on those guys, right? They have put this in a hasty way out there, you know, because it makes mistakes, and there are a lot of questions around the, sort of, where the content is coming from. You saw that as your example, it just stole the content, and without your permission, you know? >> Yeah. So as quick this aside- >> And it codes on people's behalf and the, those codes are wrong. So there's a lot of, sort of, false information it's putting out there. So it's a very vulnerable thing to do what Sam Altman- >> So even though it'll get better, others will compete. >> So look, just side note, a term which Reid Hoffman used a little bit. Like he said, it's experimental launch, like, you know, it's- >> It's pretty damn good. >> It is clever because according to Sam- >> It's more than clever. It's good. >> It's awesome, if you haven't used it. I mean you write- you read what it writes and you go, "This thing writes so well, it writes so much better than you." >> The human emotion drives that too. I think that's a big thing. But- >> I Want to add one more- >> Make your last point. >> Last one. Okay. So, but he's still holding back. He's conducting quite a few interviews. If you want to get the gist of it, there's an interview with StrictlyVC interview from yesterday with Sam Altman. Listen to that one it's an eye opening what they want- where they want to take it. But my last one I want to make it on this point is that Satya Nadella yesterday did an interview with Wall Street Journal. I think he was doing- >> You were not impressed. >> I was not impressed because he was pushing it too much. So Sam Altman's holding back so there's less backlash. >> Got 10 billion reasons to push. >> I think he's almost- >> Microsoft just laid off 10000 people. Hey ChatGPT, find me a job. You know like. (group laughs) >> He's overselling it to an extent that I think it will backfire on Microsoft. And he's over promising a lot of stuff right now, I think. I don't know why he's very jittery about all these things. And he did the same thing during Ignite as well. So he said, "Oh, this AI will write code for you and this and that." Like you called him out- >> The hyperbole- >> During your- >> from Satya Nadella, he's got a lot of hyperbole. (group talks over each other) >> All right, Let's, go ahead. >> Well, can I weigh in on the whole- >> Yeah, sure. >> Microsoft thing on whether OpenAI, here's the take on this. I think it's more like the browser moment to me, because I could relate to that experience with ChatG, personally, emotionally, when I saw that, and I remember vividly- >> You mean that aha moment (indistinct). >> Like this is obviously the future. Anything else in the old world is dead, website's going to be everywhere. It was just instant dot connection for me. And a lot of other smart people who saw this. Lot of people by the way, didn't see it. Someone said the web's a toy. At the company I was worked for at the time, Hewlett Packard, they like, they could have been in, they had invented HTML, and so like all this stuff was, like, they just passed, the web was just being passed over. But at that time, the browser got better, more websites came on board. So the structural advantage there was online web usage was growing, online user population. So that was growing exponentially with the rise of the Netscape browser. So OpenAI could stay on the right side of your list as durable, if they leverage the category that they're creating, can get the scale. And if they can get the scale, just like Twitter, that failed so many times that they still hung around. So it was a product that was always successful, right? So I mean, it should have- >> You're right, it was terrible, we kept coming back. >> The fail whale, but it still grew. So OpenAI has that moment. They could do it if Microsoft doesn't meddle too much with too much power as a vendor. They could be the Netscape Navigator, without the anti-competitive behavior of somebody else. So to me, they have the pole position. So they have an opportunity. So if not, if they don't execute, then there's opportunity. There's not a lot of barriers to entry, vis-a-vis say the CapEx of say a cloud company like AWS. You can't replicate that, Many have tried, but I think you can replicate OpenAI. >> And we're going to talk about that. Okay, so real quick, I want to bring in some ETR data. This isn't an ETR heavy segment, only because this so new, you know, they haven't coverage yet, but they do cover AI. So basically what we're seeing here is a slide on the vertical axis's net score, which is a measure of spending momentum, and in the horizontal axis's is presence in the dataset. Think of it as, like, market presence. And in the insert right there, you can see how the dots are plotted, the two columns. And so, but the key point here that we want to make, there's a bunch of companies on the left, is he like, you know, DataRobot and C3 AI and some others, but the big whales, Google, AWS, Microsoft, are really dominant in this market. So that's really the key takeaway that, can we- >> I notice IBM is way low. >> Yeah, IBM's low, and actually bring that back up and you, but then you see Oracle who actually is injecting. So I guess that's the other point is, you're not necessarily going to go buy AI, and you know, build your own AI, you're going to, it's going to be there and, it, Salesforce is going to embed it into its platform, the SaaS companies, and you're going to purchase AI. You're not necessarily going to build it. But some companies obviously are. >> I mean to quote IBM's general manager Rob Thomas, "You can't have AI with IA." information architecture and David Flynn- >> You can't Have AI without IA >> without, you can't have AI without IA. You can't have, if you have an Information Architecture, you then can power AI. Yesterday David Flynn, with Hammersmith, was on our Supercloud. He was pointing out that the relationship of storage, where you store things, also impacts the data and stressablity, and Zhamak from Nextdata, she was pointing out that same thing. So the data problem factors into all this too, Dave. >> So you got the big cloud and internet giants, they're all poised to go after this opportunity. Microsoft is investing up to 10 billion. Google's code red, which was, you know, the headline in the New York Times. Of course Apple is there and several alternatives in the market today. Guys like Chinchilla, Bloom, and there's a company Jasper and several others, and then Lena Khan looms large and the government's around the world, EU, US, China, all taking notice before the market really is coalesced around a single player. You know, John, you mentioned Netscape, they kind of really, the US government was way late to that game. It was kind of game over. And Netscape, I remember Barksdale was like, "Eh, we're going to be selling software in the enterprise anyway." and then, pshew, the company just dissipated. So, but it looks like the US government, especially with Lena Khan, they're changing the definition of antitrust and what the cause is to go after people, and they're really much more aggressive. It's only what, two years ago that (indistinct). >> Yeah, the problem I have with the federal oversight is this, they're always like late to the game, and they're slow to catch up. So in other words, they're working on stuff that should have been solved a year and a half, two years ago around some of the social networks hiding behind some of the rules around open web back in the days, and I think- >> But they're like 15 years late to that. >> Yeah, and now they got this new thing on top of it. So like, I just worry about them getting their fingers. >> But there's only two years, you know, OpenAI. >> No, but the thing (indistinct). >> No, they're still fighting other battles. But the problem with government is that they're going to label Big Tech as like a evil thing like Pharma, it's like smoke- >> You know Lena Khan wants to kill Big Tech, there's no question. >> So I think Big Tech is getting a very seriously bad rap. And I think anything that the government does that shades darkness on tech, is politically motivated in most cases. You can almost look at everything, and my 80 20 rule is in play here. 80% of the government activity around tech is bullshit, it's politically motivated, and the 20% is probably relevant, but off the mark and not organized. >> Well market forces have always been the determining factor of success. The governments, you know, have been pretty much failed. I mean you look at IBM's antitrust, that, what did that do? The market ultimately beat them. You look at Microsoft back in the day, right? Windows 95 was peaking, the government came in. But you know, like you said, they missed the web, right, and >> so they were hanging on- >> There's nobody in government >> to Windows. >> that actually knows- >> And so, you, I think you're right. It's market forces that are going to determine this. But Sarbjeet, what do you make of Microsoft's big bet here, you weren't impressed with with Nadella. How do you think, where are they going to apply it? Is this going to be a Hail Mary for Bing, or is it going to be applied elsewhere? What do you think. >> They are saying that they will, sort of, weave this into their products, office products, productivity and also to write code as well, developer productivity as well. That's a big play for them. But coming back to your antitrust sort of comments, right? I believe the, your comment was like, oh, fed was late 10 years or 15 years earlier, but now they're two years. But things are moving very fast now as compared to they used to move. >> So two years is like 10 Years. >> Yeah, two years is like 10 years. Just want to make that point. (Dave laughs) This thing is going like wildfire. Any new tech which comes in that I think they're going against distribution channels. Lina Khan has commented time and again that the marketplace model is that she wants to have some grip on. Cloud marketplaces are a kind of monopolistic kind of way. >> I don't, I don't see this, I don't see a Chat AI. >> You told me it's not Bing, you had an interesting comment. >> No, no. First of all, this is great from Microsoft. If you're Microsoft- >> Why? >> Because Microsoft doesn't have the AI chops that Google has, right? Google is got so much core competency on how they run their search, how they run their backends, their cloud, even though they don't get a lot of cloud market share in the enterprise, they got a kick ass cloud cause they needed one. >> Totally. >> They've invented SRE. I mean Google's development and engineering chops are off the scales, right? Amazon's got some good chops, but Google's got like 10 times more chops than AWS in my opinion. Cloud's a whole different story. Microsoft gets AI, they get a playbook, they get a product they can render into, the not only Bing, productivity software, helping people write papers, PowerPoint, also don't forget the cloud AI can super help. We had this conversation on our Supercloud event, where AI's going to do a lot of the heavy lifting around understanding observability and managing service meshes, to managing microservices, to turning on and off applications, and or maybe writing code in real time. So there's a plethora of use cases for Microsoft to deploy this. combined with their R and D budgets, they can then turbocharge more research, build on it. So I think this gives them a car in the game, Google may have pole position with AI, but this puts Microsoft right in the game, and they already have a lot of stuff going on. But this just, I mean everything gets lifted up. Security, cloud, productivity suite, everything. >> What's under the hood at Google, and why aren't they talking about it? I mean they got to be freaked out about this. No? Or do they have kind of a magic bullet? >> I think they have the, they have the chops definitely. Magic bullet, I don't know where they are, as compared to the ChatGPT 3 or 4 models. Like they, but if you look at the online sort of activity and the videos put out there from Google folks, Google technology folks, that's account you should look at if you are looking there, they have put all these distinctions what ChatGPT 3 has used, they have been talking about for a while as well. So it's not like it's a secret thing that you cannot replicate. As you said earlier, like in the beginning of this segment, that anybody who has more data and the capacity to process that data, which Google has both, I think they will win this. >> Obviously living in Palo Alto where the Google founders are, and Google's headquarters next town over we have- >> We're so close to them. We have inside information on some of the thinking and that hasn't been reported by any outlet yet. And that is, is that, from what I'm hearing from my sources, is Google has it, they don't want to release it for many reasons. One is it might screw up their search monopoly, one, two, they're worried about the accuracy, 'cause Google will get sued. 'Cause a lot of people are jamming on this ChatGPT as, "Oh it does everything for me." when it's clearly not a hundred percent accurate all the time. >> So Lina Kahn is looming, and so Google's like be careful. >> Yeah so Google's just like, this is the third, could be a third rail. >> But the first thing you said is a concern. >> Well no. >> The disruptive (indistinct) >> What they will do is do a Waymo kind of thing, where they spin out a separate company. >> They're doing that. >> The discussions happening, they're going to spin out the separate company and put it over there, and saying, "This is AI, got search over there, don't touch that search, 'cause that's where all the revenue is." (chuckles) >> So, okay, so that's how they deal with the Clay Christensen dilemma. What's the business model here? I mean it's not advertising, right? Is it to charge you for a query? What, how do you make money at this? >> It's a good question, I mean my thinking is, first of all, it's cool to type stuff in and see a paper get written, or write a blog post, or gimme a marketing slogan for this or that or write some code. I think the API side of the business will be critical. And I think Howie Xu, I know you're going to reference some of his comments yesterday on Supercloud, I think this brings a whole 'nother user interface into technology consumption. I think the business model, not yet clear, but it will probably be some sort of either API and developer environment or just a straight up free consumer product, with some sort of freemium backend thing for business. >> And he was saying too, it's natural language is the way in which you're going to interact with these systems. >> I think it's APIs, it's APIs, APIs, APIs, because these people who are cooking up these models, and it takes a lot of compute power to train these and to, for inference as well. Somebody did the analysis on the how many cents a Google search costs to Google, and how many cents the ChatGPT query costs. It's, you know, 100x or something on that. You can take a look at that. >> A 100x on which side? >> You're saying two orders of magnitude more expensive for ChatGPT >> Much more, yeah. >> Than for Google. >> It's very expensive. >> So Google's got the data, they got the infrastructure and they got, you're saying they got the cost (indistinct) >> No actually it's a simple query as well, but they are trying to put together the answers, and they're going through a lot more data versus index data already, you know. >> Let me clarify, you're saying that Google's version of ChatGPT is more efficient? >> No, I'm, I'm saying Google search results. >> Ah, search results. >> What are used to today, but cheaper. >> But that, does that, is that going to confer advantage to Google's large language (indistinct)? >> It will, because there were deep science (indistinct). >> Google, I don't think Google search is doing a large language model on their search, it's keyword search. You know, what's the weather in Santa Cruz? Or how, what's the weather going to be? Or you know, how do I find this? Now they have done a smart job of doing some things with those queries, auto complete, re direct navigation. But it's, it's not entity. It's not like, "Hey, what's Dave Vellante thinking this week in Breaking Analysis?" ChatGPT might get that, because it'll get your Breaking Analysis, it'll synthesize it. There'll be some, maybe some clips. It'll be like, you know, I mean. >> Well I got to tell you, I asked ChatGPT to, like, I said, I'm going to enter a transcript of a discussion I had with Nir Zuk, the CTO of Palo Alto Networks, And I want you to write a 750 word blog. I never input the transcript. It wrote a 750 word blog. It attributed quotes to him, and it just pulled a bunch of stuff that, and said, okay, here it is. It talked about Supercloud, it defined Supercloud. >> It's made, it makes you- >> Wow, But it was a big lie. It was fraudulent, but still, blew me away. >> Again, vanilla content and non accurate content. So we are going to see a surge of misinformation on steroids, but I call it the vanilla content. Wow, that's just so boring, (indistinct). >> There's so many dangers. >> Make your point, cause we got to, almost out of time. >> Okay, so the consumption, like how do you consume this thing. As humans, we are consuming it and we are, like, getting a nicely, like, surprisingly shocked, you know, wow, that's cool. It's going to increase productivity and all that stuff, right? And on the danger side as well, the bad actors can take hold of it and create fake content and we have the fake sort of intelligence, if you go out there. So that's one thing. The second thing is, we are as humans are consuming this as language. Like we read that, we listen to it, whatever format we consume that is, but the ultimate usage of that will be when the machines can take that output from likes of ChatGPT, and do actions based on that. The robots can work, the robot can paint your house, we were talking about, right? Right now we can't do that. >> Data apps. >> So the data has to be ingested by the machines. It has to be digestible by the machines. And the machines cannot digest unorganized data right now, we will get better on the ingestion side as well. So we are getting better. >> Data, reasoning, insights, and action. >> I like that mall, paint my house. >> So, okay- >> By the way, that means drones that'll come in. Spray painting your house. >> Hey, it wasn't too long ago that robots couldn't climb stairs, as I like to point out. Okay, and of course it's no surprise the venture capitalists are lining up to eat at the trough, as I'd like to say. Let's hear, you'd referenced this earlier, John, let's hear what AI expert Howie Xu said at the Supercloud event, about what it takes to clone ChatGPT. Please, play the clip. >> So one of the VCs actually asked me the other day, right? "Hey, how much money do I need to spend, invest to get a, you know, another shot to the openAI sort of the level." You know, I did a (indistinct) >> Line up. >> A hundred million dollar is the order of magnitude that I came up with, right? You know, not a billion, not 10 million, right? So a hundred- >> Guys a hundred million dollars, that's an astoundingly low figure. What do you make of it? >> I was in an interview with, I was interviewing, I think he said hundred million or so, but in the hundreds of millions, not a billion right? >> You were trying to get him up, you were like "Hundreds of millions." >> Well I think, I- >> He's like, eh, not 10, not a billion. >> Well first of all, Howie Xu's an expert machine learning. He's at Zscaler, he's a machine learning AI guy. But he comes from VMware, he's got his technology pedigrees really off the chart. Great friend of theCUBE and kind of like a CUBE analyst for us. And he's smart. He's right. I think the barriers to entry from a dollar standpoint are lower than say the CapEx required to compete with AWS. Clearly, the CapEx spending to build all the tech for the run a cloud. >> And you don't need a huge sales force. >> And in some case apps too, it's the same thing. But I think it's not that hard. >> But am I right about that? You don't need a huge sales force either. It's, what, you know >> If the product's good, it will sell, this is a new era. The better mouse trap will win. This is the new economics in software, right? So- >> Because you look at the amount of money Lacework, and Snyk, Snowflake, Databrooks. Look at the amount of money they've raised. I mean it's like a billion dollars before they get to IPO or more. 'Cause they need promotion, they need go to market. You don't need (indistinct) >> OpenAI's been working on this for multiple five years plus it's, hasn't, wasn't born yesterday. Took a lot of years to get going. And Sam is depositioning all the success, because he's trying to manage expectations, To your point Sarbjeet, earlier. It's like, yeah, he's trying to "Whoa, whoa, settle down everybody, (Dave laughs) it's not that great." because he doesn't want to fall into that, you know, hero and then get taken down, so. >> It may take a 100 million or 150 or 200 million to train the model. But to, for the inference to, yeah to for the inference machine, It will take a lot more, I believe. >> Give it, so imagine, >> Because- >> Go ahead, sorry. >> Go ahead. But because it consumes a lot more compute cycles and it's certain level of storage and everything, right, which they already have. So I think to compute is different. To frame the model is a different cost. But to run the business is different, because I think 100 million can go into just fighting the Fed. >> Well there's a flywheel too. >> Oh that's (indistinct) >> (indistinct) >> We are running the business, right? >> It's an interesting number, but it's also kind of, like, context to it. So here, a hundred million spend it, you get there, but you got to factor in the fact that the ways companies win these days is critical mass scale, hitting a flywheel. If they can keep that flywheel of the value that they got going on and get better, you can almost imagine a marketplace where, hey, we have proprietary data, we're SiliconANGLE in theCUBE. We have proprietary content, CUBE videos, transcripts. Well wouldn't it be great if someone in a marketplace could sell a module for us, right? We buy that, Amazon's thing and things like that. So if they can get a marketplace going where you can apply to data sets that may be proprietary, you can start to see this become bigger. And so I think the key barriers to entry is going to be success. I'll give you an example, Reddit. Reddit is successful and it's hard to copy, not because of the software. >> They built the moat. >> Because you can, buy Reddit open source software and try To compete. >> They built the moat with their community. >> Their community, their scale, their user expectation. Twitter, we referenced earlier, that thing should have gone under the first two years, but there was such a great emotional product. People would tolerate the fail whale. And then, you know, well that was a whole 'nother thing. >> Then a plane landed in (John laughs) the Hudson and it was over. >> I think verticals, a lot of verticals will build applications using these models like for lawyers, for doctors, for scientists, for content creators, for- >> So you'll have many hundreds of millions of dollars investments that are going to be seeping out. If, all right, we got to wrap, if you had to put odds on it that that OpenAI is going to be the leader, maybe not a winner take all leader, but like you look at like Amazon and cloud, they're not winner take all, these aren't necessarily winner take all markets. It's not necessarily a zero sum game, but let's call it winner take most. What odds would you give that open AI 10 years from now will be in that position. >> If I'm 0 to 10 kind of thing? >> Yeah, it's like horse race, 3 to 1, 2 to 1, even money, 10 to 1, 50 to 1. >> Maybe 2 to 1, >> 2 to 1, that's pretty low odds. That's basically saying they're the favorite, they're the front runner. Would you agree with that? >> I'd say 4 to 1. >> Yeah, I was going to say I'm like a 5 to 1, 7 to 1 type of person, 'cause I'm a skeptic with, you know, there's so much competition, but- >> I think they're definitely the leader. I mean you got to say, I mean. >> Oh there's no question. There's no question about it. >> The question is can they execute? >> They're not Friendster, is what you're saying. >> They're not Friendster and they're more like Twitter and Reddit where they have momentum. If they can execute on the product side, and if they don't stumble on that, they will continue to have the lead. >> If they say stay neutral, as Sam is, has been saying, that, hey, Microsoft is one of our partners, if you look at their company model, how they have structured the company, then they're going to pay back to the investors, like Microsoft is the biggest one, up to certain, like by certain number of years, they're going to pay back from all the money they make, and after that, they're going to give the money back to the public, to the, I don't know who they give it to, like non-profit or something. (indistinct) >> Okay, the odds are dropping. (group talks over each other) That's a good point though >> Actually they might have done that to fend off the criticism of this. But it's really interesting to see the model they have adopted. >> The wildcard in all this, My last word on this is that, if there's a developer shift in how developers and data can come together again, we have conferences around the future of data, Supercloud and meshs versus, you know, how the data world, coding with data, how that evolves will also dictate, 'cause a wild card could be a shift in the landscape around how developers are using either machine learning or AI like techniques to code into their apps, so. >> That's fantastic insight. I can't thank you enough for your time, on the heels of Supercloud 2, really appreciate it. All right, thanks to John and Sarbjeet for the outstanding conversation today. Special thanks to the Palo Alto studio team. My goodness, Anderson, this great backdrop. You guys got it all out here, I'm jealous. And Noah, really appreciate it, Chuck, Andrew Frick and Cameron, Andrew Frick switching, Cameron on the video lake, great job. And Alex Myerson, he's on production, manages the podcast for us, Ken Schiffman as well. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social media and our newsletters. Rob Hof is our editor-in-chief over at SiliconANGLE, does some great editing, thanks to all. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast, wherever you listen. Publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Want to get in touch, email me directly, david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me at dvellante, or comment on our LinkedIn post. And by all means, check out etr.ai. They got really great survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, We'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live! From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE! Covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite, I'm your host Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside of Stu Miniman. We are joined by Frank Artale, the Managing partner at Prime Foray, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE Frank. >> Glad to be here. >> So before the cameras were rolling, we were talking about the energy of this place, you've been to many, many an Ignite, way back before it was even called Ignite. >> Oh yeah! Yes, this is, Ignite is the evolution of something that Microsoft used to call TechEd. So it was like back in, when I was in Microsoft, so even back in the '90s, we had to figure out a way to educate the technical community, and we decided to start this thing, and interestingly enough, the first one ever was here in O\rlando, much smaller venue, I think at The Swan and the Dolphin, but I've been coming to them on and off, you know for the past, 26 years or so. >> So tell us a little bit about what you're doing now at Prime Foray, what is Prime Foray? >> So we're a boutique and advisory consulting company, and we do work with what I call ISVs, so basically someone that makes software, but we engage with folks who are at some point on a journey to cloud, and that means both from a business and technical perspective. Whether they're just getting started, thinking about moving products, that maybe they had it from on premises, onto a cloud platform, or maybe they're well on their way and they're really looking to just like amplify and accelerate that. That's where a team of people that'll have experience from product, business development, sales and marketing, to really get those companies to the place that they want to be, relative to cloud, because as we know, cloud is still the future, and everyone wants to get there. >> All right, so Frank, bring us inside. Without giving away state secrets, dealing with Microsoft today is very different from the company that we grew up with, of Windows and Office. So what's it like working with Microsoft? Give a little bit of you know, where some of the key enablers are. >> Yeah, yeah so in the early days, if you think about it right, Microsoft is always great with evangelizing to an independent software vendor, around building to the platform. So back in the day, so much of the Microsoft actual market cap, was dependent upon the ISVs building to the APIs. And the APIs were the sort of the lock, right, until the ISVs were locked. But there never was a really, let's say a great channel program for someone that was an ISV. The channel programs are largely structured for people that sold stuff. And so what you're really seeing now for the first time, and this is not exclusive to Microsoft, with other cloud partners. But of course since we're at a Microsoft show, we can highlight some of the things that Microsoft is doing here, it really is creating super incentives for ISVs to come to the platform, such that the ISVs feel like they are selling side by side, side by side with Microsoft. There are some great incentives around that, they provide some great access to technology and tools, really great credits to get onto the platform, and so they focus as much on the business, like they always put more on the business now, than on the access to the technology, to the extent that it can work side by side with a company in building their business, well the folks that are the business owners really like that. The tech guys always like bits and bytes wherever they can go. >> So, describe how the partnership works. I mean what is, as you are now holding hands with companies that are going through a digital transformation, and some working closely with Microsoft, some may be just on the fringes of working with Microsoft, describe how the partnership is working. >> Yeah, so well, I would call it, I'd like to say that it's really in someways an evolution of the way Microsoft started working with ISVs, a number of years ago, and so at the core, the way Microsoft thinks about them, thinks about the ISVs is really, you know, an extension of their own product line. Right, so a platform is only as good as the things that, that stand atop it, right? And so, if Azure is a platform, or Business Apps is a platform, or Modern Workplace is a platform, you need applications that sit atop those things. And, one of I think the, one of the key things that Microsoft has done, has really enabled the ISVs to become connected with the Microsoft Sales Organization, without having intermediaries. So when, like in a lot of ways, when you're an ISV and you go work with a larger company that you want to have a partnership with, you have to find somebody that knows somebody that's the Account Manager for some large account. What Microsoft has done is they've automated that, once you've passed through a series of hurdles and certifications, you can actually enter into a program where you're opening leads into Microsoft and you get, and that partner, gets connected with the Microsoft Sales Team on the other side. So whenever I talk to people about things that they're doing, that's what I think the ISVs are most proud of. You'll hear them say things like, well, we are in X amount of accounts together with Microsoft. And, you know we're going, and from a business perspective, why ever enter into a partnership, if you were not going to just, to sell stuff? Again, you can do bits and bytes all day, it's a lot of fun for people like me, but at the end of the day, revenue has to come out the other side. And I think from a partner perspective, they've done a better than good job at that. >> All right. So Frank, when you look back to when you were inside Microsoft, give a little bit about how the roles have been changing as we've gone into this world of cloud and AI. >> Right, how the world has changed? >> And the roles inside of Microsoft, specifically, to, you know, fit the world. >> Right right. So when I was there, you know long ago, obviously it was a much smaller place, and you actually had, you know inside the house, you had product development, and you know, outside the house, you had channel development, and then you had, then you had direct sales, and you also OEM sales which was, which actually is a very very big piece to the puzzle. But, the linkage, right, between sales and channel, wasn't really there back then. And sometimes, like even the role that I had in program management, at times we had to be, we had to be glue for that. I think what, you know, in a sense now with the roles have changed is such a way, that you have, you have people, you know inside the house now that are really responsible for not just ensuring that a partner feels good about what they're doing, but that the partners are actually selling side-by-side with folks in the field. And that would've been, you know, an impossible thing, really impossible thing to do at the time. And so the other thing that's, I think that's really changed, is now that you have, you have an overlay sales organization, called Worldwide Commercial, and also a direct sales organization. So direct sales organization, are people that carry the bag and have quota right on the accounts. But then, you have another organization, that looks after the 500 largest accounts, and there are a lot of specialists in that organization, that by definition work with partners to move both the Microsoft products and the partner's products together in there. And so those are large organizations that plain and simply just didn't exist, and they may have not even made sense at the time, 'cause at the time a lot of what we were doing in the '90s we were still distributed computing, with still really a technical curiosity, and then it became trusted infrastructure. And it's really only in the last few years that cloud computing has moved beyond that, from being a technical curiosity, to trusted infrastructure. And the way it's taken to market, is so much different, because we took finished goods to market, we relied on people to carry boxes of stuff, we relied on people to do inventory. There's no more inventory, I mean it's just there, you turn it on and you go. So I think what you'll see also from again, from where the commerce engines are setup, and the kind of people that are deployed, are really being tooled for that kind of a go to market, which is significantly different. >> So we're really just scratching the surface when it comes to cloud. As you said so many of these companies are only at the beginning of their journeys. What do you think the future holds, in terms of trends in the marketplace and what companies are going to continue to want. And are there any blind spots, that you, as someone who's being at this industry for 36 years, sort of know are there? >> Right, so like today was an interesting one, to see ARC announced. And you know, it shows the natural evolution of the way that we think about a platform. So, if we go back to even like the late 80s right, we had to build servers, right? So you got a network operating system, and there was a set of network adapters, and a set of hardware it worked on, and you had to pay a systems integrator, to go put it all together, and then you kind of hope it worked. Well then we got this stuff call plug-and-play, in the early 90s, and it flattened the playing field, and you can take an operating system like Windows NT the one that I worked on, and as long as it'd adhere to a plug-and-play standard, it generally worked on that platform. But the operating system then grew, to become a collection of services. It was a file server, it was an identity server, eventually, things like transaction processing, networking was always in there. Now if you look at what something like ARC, or any of the services that are available on other clouds, they're really services on which applications are built. So now it's just natural to see that these services like from the cloud vendors, are being taken on to other cloud infrastructures. So today, we are here at Microsoft, you see ARC which is a set of Azure services, which are being made available and useful on other platforms like on-premises, as an example. To me that's no surprise, for Microsoft, they kind of led the way with that, with their IOT technology. How you see Azure services moving onto there. So now, from an opportunity perspective, as someone who's building applications, you can say OK, I can now go look at services that are I know will be available on all clouds. So I have a, let's just say I can, I can snap to that, and now I can go to my customer and also talk about a flexible, you know flexible opportunity about where and why you might want to deploy. So more opportunities around that though, what gets complex, management gets complex, security gets complex, we're sounding like the '90s again right, where whole industries grew up around things like performance and security, you know, and systems management, around that. And so, I think, you know from a, just strictly from an opportunity perspective, you know there'll be companies here that see that, and go take advantage of it to get out in front, and there'll be ones that are already incumbents, and hang on for dear life, saying things have to be different on each cloud, but I think, as you see companies that embrace the notion of sets of services that'll be running across clouds, those are where really the opportunities will be. Just like we saw in the '90s, folks that said hey, I'll run my application on Windows NT, on any piece of hardware, right? They didn't tie themselves to I'll just say like, you know Compaq, or Tandem, folks that don't exist anymore. (Rebecca laughs) Now they've got the folks we have here today. >> All right, so Frank you know you can't get through an interview with theCUBE without getting a question from John Furrier. >> Frank: Okay, is he on? >> So John's been watching, and he wants to know, how's the restaurant scenes doing in Seattle? >> Okay so, the Seattle restaurant scene's second to none. Obviously you need cuisine. Two restaurants that I'm personally involved with, one is downtown Seattle, and a one in, one in Bellevue Washington. Both completely different cuisines, one heavy on steak, one heavy on plants, and we like to say, we're up and to the right on both of those John, so thanks for asking. >> Great, excellent. Frank Artale, always a pleasure having you on. Thanks so much. >> Great, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. (upbeat music)

>>live from Miami, Florida It's the Q covering IBM is data in a I forum brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to Miami, Florida Everybody watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise we're covering the IBM data and a I Forum Scott Hefner series The CMO on uh, sorry VP and CMO IBM Data. Yeah, right, I know. Here's the CMO of late again. So welcome. Welcome to the >>cake was great. Great >>event. Yeah, I've never attended one of these before. The sort of analytics University 1700 people that everybody's like. Sponges trying to learn more and more and more. >>60% higher attendance last year. Awesome. A lot of interest. >>So if we go back a couple of years ago, talks about digital transformation, people roll their eyes. They think it's a buzz word. When you talk to customers, it's really they're trying to transform their business, and data is at the center of that. So if you go back to like 2016 there's a lot of experimentation going on. Kind of throw everything against the wall, see what sticks. It seems Scott, based on the data that I see, that people are now narrowing their their bets on things like Ai ai automation machine learning containers. What are you seeing from customers? >>I think you framed it Well, I mean, if you kind of think about it, this digital transformations been going on for almost 20 years. With the advent of the Internet back around 2000 late 19 nineties, every started on the Internet doing business transactions, and slowly but surely, digital transformation was taken effect, right? And I think clients are now shifting to what we can call digital transformation two point. Oh, what's the next 20 years look like? And our view, our viewpoint from overlay from our clients is, if you think about it, it's data that fuels digital transformation. Right? Without data, there is no digital transformation is no digital. It's all data driven, evidence based decision making, using data to do things more efficiently and more effectively for your clients and your employees, and so on, so forth. But if you think about it, we've been using data as a way of looking to what has happened in the past or what is happening now in clients with digital transformation. To point out what a shift to a word of predictive data. How do you How do you predict in shape? Future outcomes, right? And if you think about it's a I that's gonna unlock predictive data. That's why we see such an intense focus on a I as a really the linchpin of digital transformation. Two point. Oh, and of course, all that data needs to be virtualized. It has to sit in a hybrid cloud environment. 94% of clients have multiple clouds. So if that unlocks the value or if a Iot of Mark's value the data and predictive ways the cloud in a multi cloud environment is that platform that has built upon, it's. That's why you see this enormous shift today. I in terms of investment priority along with hybrid multi cloud. >>So I like this this point of view, this digital transformation 2.0, because what's in their senior business in a digital business? That's how they used data. Yeah, and IBM is mission. Using your group is to help people better take advantage of data to five business outcomes. I mean, that's pretty clearly. What you guys are doing this to Dato To me. Three innovation cocktails, data plus machine intelligence or a I, and then you scale it with cloud. And so you talk about cloud to two point. Oh, really? Involves this predictive sort of a component of the equation that you're bringing into it, doesn't it? >>Yeah. When I think of this next phase, there's several things our clients trying to achieve. One is to predict and shape future outcomes, whether it be inventory, whether it be patient care, whatever it may be. Ah, customer service call. You want Toby to predict what the call's gonna be about what the client or what the customers has gone through before with the issue may be right. So this notion of predicted in shaping the outcome the second is empowering. People do higher value work. How do you make them better at what they're doing? The superpowers of being aided by a machine all right, or some kind of software, it's gonna help you be better what you do. And of course, this whole notion of automating task that people don't want to do automated experiences and intelligent ways. This all adds up to like new business models, right? And that's where a I comes in. That's what I does, and I do think it's a linchpin. What clients are looking to invest in is this notion that you need one unified platform to build upon for the future. That is, cloud service is data service is an aye aye. Service is all is one thing. One cloud native platform that runs on any cloud and completely opens up where all your data is. You run your APS wherever you want to run them secure to the core, and that's what they're looking to invest in. And >>so you guys use is the sort of tag line you can't have a I without. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay, being information architecture. So for years on the q b been talking about bringing the cloud model to your data? Could you don't move data around? Now you're talking about bringing machine intelligence to your data wherever your data lives, to talk about why that's important and what IBM is doing both conceptually in from a product standpoint, to enable that. >>So the number one issue with the eye and actually a number one issue that sometimes results in failure with a I is didn't understand the data. Some 81% of clients do not understand the data that they're gonna need for the aye aye models. And if they do understand the doubt that they don't know how to make it simple, inaccessible, especially when its ever changing and then they have all the issues of compliance and quality. And is it a trusted set of data that you're using? And that's what you mentioned about? There is no way I without an aye aye, which is information architecture. So it starts there than two. To your point is, Dad is everywhere. There's thousands of sources of data, if not more than that. So how do you normalize all that? Virtual eyes it right. And that's where you get into one platform, any cloud, so that you can access the data wherever it sits. Don't spend the money moving things around the complexity of all that. And then, finally, the third thing we're looking to do is use a I to build. I use a I to actually manage the life cycle of how do you incorporate this into your business and That's what this one platform is gonna d'oh! Versus enabling customers to piece together all this stuff. It's just it's too much. >>So this is what cloudpack for data? Yeah, it is and does. Yes. So you say Aye, aye. Free. Are you talking about picking the functions and automating components? Prioritizing? Yeah. How you apply those those algorithms. Is that right? >>Yeah. So I think Way talk about data with three big things to really focus on his data. And that is the whole nursing. You need that information architecture that's that's ready for an aye aye multicolored world. It's all about the dad in the end, right? Two is about talent, right? Talent being skills. Are you able to acquire the skills you need? So we're trying to help our customers apply. I actually generate and build a I optimize eh? So they don't need is, you know, as much skill to do it. In other words, democratize the ability to build a I models for your business. And then finally, the dad is everywhere. You need to have completely open environment. That's the run on any cloud notion. And that's why the Red had open shift is such a big component of this. So think of clients are looking to climb the ladder >>today. I >>modernize their data states, make the data simple, inaccessible, create a trusted data foundation building scale new models and infuse it throughout their business. Cloudpack for data is essentially the foundational platform that gives you the latter >>day I >>that is in earnestly extensible with things that may be important to you or certain areas of additional capabilities. So Compaq for Dad essentially is the platform that I'm referring to hear when you say you know any cloud, right? >>So I feel like we're on the cusp of this enormous productivity boom. If you look at the data, productivity in the first quarter went up now and if you believe the Bureau of Labor Statistics, but over the long term productivity numbers right, you probably can't believe in them. I think for Q one was like 3% which is a huge uptick. And I feel like it's much, much higher than the anemic whatever it was one and 1/2 1.7%. All this ay, ay, all this automation is gonna drive productivity. It's gonna have an impact on organizations. So what's your perspective? Point of view on on the depending productivity boom boom? Do you believe that premise, How our job's going to be affected, What a client seeing in terms of how their retraining people, What should we expect? >>Yeah, I think a I's gonna give people superpowers. It's gonna make them better. What they do, it's gonna make you as a consumer better at how you choose what to buy. It's gonna make the automobile drive more efficiently and more more information that's relevant to you in the dashboard. It's gonna allow you call for service on your cable company. For them to already know your history, maybe already died. Knows what why you're calling and make it a more efficient call. It's gonna make everyone more productive. It's gonna result in higher quality output because you're able to predict things right. You automate things and intelligent ways, so I don't see it as anything that replaces jobs. It's just gonna make people better at what they do. Allow them to focus on higher value work and be more efficient when you are making decisions right in that will that will result in higher productivity per per worker, right? >>I mean, we've certainly heard examples today of customers that are doing that basically, and it's not like they're firing people. They're basically taking away mundane tasks or things that maybe humans would take so long to do and then re pointing that talent somewhere else. >>Toe higher value. >>So you're seeing that in your client base? Yeah, it's starting to hit today. It's gonna be interesting to see whether or not that affects jobs. I mean, we like to say That's not I ultimately think it's gonna create more jobs. There may be some kind of dip where we've got to retrain people, maybe have to change the way in which we do. Reading right bet Smith and I were talking, reading, writing arithmetic in coding, You know, maybe one of the skills that we have to bring in, but ultimately I think it is a positive, and I'm sanguine and I'm an optimist. Um, but you're seeing examples today of people refocusing their talent. What are they focusing that talent on more strategic things? Like what? >>Well, again, I think it's just getting people to be better at what they do by giving them that predictive power of super powers to be a to do their job better. It's gonna make people better not replace >>them. So it's consumers. We're probably gonna buy more. You're >>gonna buy more, you're gonna buy the right things more. And the right things are gonna be there for you to buy the right sales because everything is gonna be able to better understand patterns of what happens and predict right. And that's why you're seeing this enormous investment shift among among technologists companies. What was that? M. I. T. Sloane in the Boston Consulting Group just came out with a study. I think couple weeks ago, 92% of companies are looking to expand their investments in a I gardener came out with the study of C i ose and there in top investment areas, artificial intelligence was number one. Data and analytics was number two, which is the information architecture, right? One into as the first time it's been like that. So and I think it's for this reason of digital transformation, the predictive notion predictive enterprise, if you will, and just helping everyone be more efficient, more productive or what they do. That's really what it's about. It's not so much replacing people. They're thinking of robots and things like that. That's a small part of what we're talking about. >>Well, even when you talk to people about software robots, they love them because they don't have to do these Monday tests and dramatically impact the quality of what they're doing it again. It frees them up to do other things. >>Good, Good example. Legal Legal Nation is one of our clients that we've been working with, and they do case law for business clients. And sometimes it can take weeks, if not a month, to prepare case law documents. They're able to do that ours now because they have artificial intelligence. The background has done a lot of the case law, intelligence and finding the right dad in the right case law and helping to populate those documents where they don't have to do all the research themselves. So what does that do for the lawyer? Right? It makes them better what they do. They can shift a higher value work than just preparing the document. They could work on more cases that could spend more time on the subtleties of the case. Actually, that's a good example of what we mean here. He's not replacing the lawyer. >>Well, I'm seeing a lot of examples like this in legal fields. Also, auditing. I've talked enough. I've asked you think I'd be able to cut the auditing bill? And the answer is actually, No, because to the point you just made is they're shifting their activities to higher value. They might be charging Maur for activities that take less time. >>Customer service is is another great example. There's so many some examples of that. But it used to be. If you called, everyone treated equal right and you get onto a call. And then sometimes it's very rudimentary things. Sometimes there's gotta be a way to prioritize What are the most critical calls knowing that there's something already wrong and you know why they're calling? And if you can shift your human agents to focus on those and let let a I help with the more rudimentary ones you're making, the client's happier. But those people doing higher value work, we go on forever and ever on just different examples across different industries in different businesses, of how this is really helping people, and it all comes down to it. The three big words, which is prediction, automation and optimization. And that's what I was gonna do. And with digital transformation in just shift the whole the whole notion of using data for evidence based decision making what's happened in the past? What's happening now, too? I'm gonna I'm gonna understand its shape, the future. You could do so many things with that. >>It's amazing when you think about it. We've been at this computer industry 50 60 plus years, and you think everything's automated. It's not even close. All this technology has actually created so much more data so much on structured data. Actually, so many Maur inefficient processes in a lot of ways that now machine intelligence is beginning to attack in a big >>way. You won't find a survey because, ah, a survey of businesses where a eyes not a top aspiration trick, is how do you turn the aspirations of the outcomes? And that's what this latter day eyes all about. It's a very prescriptive approach that we've learned from our clients on howto take that journey to a I and a lot of things we talk about on this on this conversation or the real key linchpins, right? You gotta get the data right. You have to trust in the data that you're going to be used and you gotta get the talent and be able to simple find democratize how you build his models and deploy them. And then ultimately you got to get trust across your organization. And that means the models have to have explained ability, Understand? You have to help you understand how it is recommending these things, and then they're gonna buy into it. It's just gonna make them better. It's the whole notion of superpowers. >>Get that down and then you could scale. And that's really where the business and >>they all want to get there. Now the hard part is now we got to start doing it right. It's kind of like the Internet was 20 years ago. They know they want to do business transactions over the Internet and do commerce. But it didn't happen like overnight. It wasn't magic. It took. It was a journey. I think we're seeing that movie. We playing here? >>Yeah. And in fact, I think in some ways it could even happen faster now because you have the Internet because you have clouds. That's not predicting a very steep Pogue. I've s curve here. We'll have to leave it there. Scott, great to see you. Thanks >>for coming >>on. >>Any time. >>All right. Keep it right, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching the Cube from the IBM data and a I form in Miami. We'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, day two of our coverage of Cisco Live. We are live also from San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin, Stu Miniman is my co-host. And one of our alumni is back with us, Eric Herzog, the CMO of IBM Storage. >> Great, thank you for having us. >> Welcome back. So, lots of buzz, we're in the DevNet Zone. This has been, I hear, one of the busiest expos at Cisco Live this year. The community is, I'm hearing, approaching 600,000 strong. Yesterday we were talking a lot about the big waves of innovation, one of them being GPU's everywhere, AI, but also some of the challenges with respect to data, that companies are generally getting less than 1% of that data to really extract insights from it. So let's talk about what IBM is doing with respect to AI and big data, and really helping customers really turn that dial up on getting more value out of what they have. >> Well, so we're doing a lot in that space. First of all, when you're running AI in particular, if you're really going to do something like run a robotic factory, you'd better make sure the storage doesn't fail. But that's sort of, you know, the checkbox item, just the way a car always has a spare tire. So the real differentiator, from a storage perspective, is what do you do to help the data prep, what do you help to do to make sure that the data is always in the right kind of pipeline? For example, just like a human always learns, right, at least smart humans always learn, so you learned certain things when you were seven or eight, they might've changed by the time you were in college, by the time you have your first kid they might be different again, and by the time you're getting ready to retire, but it could be still the same topic and the data's recycling, and then you learn new things about that topic. So in the case of a data workload, what you need to do is make sure you have data prep along the entire pipeline. And that's what we've done with a whole bunch of software that we offer for the big data and AI workloads and applications. >> So, Eric, we've talked with you many times about what's happening in the multi-cloud world. It feels like IBM and Cisco are on similar, parallel paths as to the move from, traditionally we think about boxes, and from a Cisco standpoint it's ports, and, you know, more and more it's about the software. So can you talk a little bit about that software-defined world in where IBM and Cisco are going together along that journey. >> So, one of the things that we've done from a storage division perspective, we do what we call the VersaStack. It's a converge infrastructure that includes Cisco UCS, our all-flash arrays, but it's packed with a bunch of software. So we can use that to transparently move block data out to a cloud, any cloud, IBM cloud, Amazon, Azure. We could move it out to a block store or to an object store. Now obviously to move it out to an object store, that can help you, can prevent ransomware and malware. And it's all automated. We've done the same thing with Scale-Out File, where we just see cloud as just a tier, and we've done the same thing with object storage. So the big thing we see from a hybrid, multi-cloud perspective at the IBM storage division, is everything needs to be able to have the data easily portable, easily migrateable, and easily replicable back, and constantly moving back and forth, not just going out to the cloud and staying there. So we've done that from our software-defined portfolio. But we also did it with our modern data protection portfolio, Spectrum Protect, which is one of the most award-winning products in the backup space. We've got over 400 small-medium cloud providers where their backup-as-a-service offering is based on Spectrum Protect. So if they go to Wikibon and Wikibon says, we want to back up to the cloud and you're using Tectrade or Cloud Temple or i-Virtualize, all those cloud providers, the backup-as-a-service they sell you is based on IBM Spectrum Protect. So for us cloud is just another tier. Just like hard drives and flash and tape, cloud's just the new tier. >> So in this pivot towards software-defined everything, with, say, VersaStack for example, give us one of your favorite customer success stories that really highlights the value of what IBM and your partnerships deliver. >> Sure, sure. So one of them would be Tectrade. So Tectrade is one of our public references. They only do PCI data. So, Wikibon couldn't be a customer, IBM can't be a customer, theCube can't be a customer, Cisco can't be, because we don't specialize, as you know, in financial-centric data. So they back up about, they do about two million backups a day, all of financial data across Europe and into North America, and they've got a VersaStack that happens to run Spectrum Protect on it. It's all flash, so they're not worried about performance. And then they back up to giant hard drive farms that they've also bought from IBM. But the real thing on the VersaStack is having that very fast edge, and then having the software that allows them to A, control the storage side, but then run Spectrum Protect to do backup. So if you were a bank, if theCUBE was a bank, then you guys could use Tectrade and they use a VersaStack for backing up data as a service. That's a perfect example of what we've done with the VersaStack solution, in this case in a hybrid cloud scenario. >> What are some of the business impacts that they have achieved so far? Are they finding new revenue streams, are they unlocking more valuable data to be more competitive? >> So, what they do is obviously in the PCI world. They're very centered, you can't lose anything. Because it's financial data. So for them, it's all about the security of the data, making sure the data gets there, the data's encrypted in flight, they know that the customers can do a lot of different things, because Spectrum tech is very much a big enterprise package that's very strong in the global Fortune 2000. So they like it for that. Now, we've had some other customers, and their the value has been things like the return on investment. For example, the second-largest dating site on the planet uses VersaStack. And they got a four month return on investment. They bought it, and in four months it paid for themselves, so they bought like four or five more. We had another customer who saved, and this is also a cloud service provider by the way, so they saved the equivalent of five full-time employees that were writing custom code and managing stuff, and they used Spectrum Protect also for backup. But in this case you and I could use them because they're not specialists like Tectrade is, and they'll back up anybody's data. And they saved five full-time equivalents. So they've now redeployed those full-time employees to do something else. So those are just examples from three different companies of ways that they've saved money and really driven a business value, not just about the data, and yeah, the data's fast, but really, if you're a storage guy, been doing it as long as I have, the data's always fast and it just gets faster every generation, so okay, it's fast. And in this case it's really about business value, about the value of the data, not about the storage. >> Eric, you mentioned security. Of course security is one of those topics that's hitting all of the environments here at Cisco, but bring us inside, especially from a storage division, modern data protection and how that's getting involved in the security discussion. >> Sure, so what we've done across the portfolio, even in primary storage, is made sure that we've done all sorts of things that help you against a ransomware or malware attack, keep the data encrypted. I think the key point actually, I think Silicon Angle wrote about this, something like 98% of all enterprises are going to get broken into anyway. So it's great that you've got security software on the edge, whether that be IBM or RSA or BlueCoat or Checkpoint, or who cares who you buy the software from. But when they're in, they're stealing. And sometimes, some accounts have told us that they can track them down in a day, but if you're a giant global Fortune 500 with data centers up, it might take you a week. They could be stealing stuff right and left. So we've done everything from, we have write-once technology, so it's immutable data, you can't change it. We've got encryption, so if they steal it, guess what, they can't use it. But the other thing we've done is real protection against ransomware and malware. So I am going to attack Wikibon, theCUBE, and I am going to charge you $10 million, and I'm going to steal every video you've ever created and hold it for ransom. So the way I would do that is I look at your snapshots, your replicas, and your backups first. So what do we do? We can actually snapshot a replica out to an object store, and ransomware and malware, at least today, doesn't attack object storage. So that way, when I'm talking to you or Stu and said I want $10 million, you start laughing, and go, what are you talking about? We replicate every night. Okay, we lose one day of data. He can't get half the $10 million. So that's ransomware or malware protection. We've also built that into Spectrum Protect, because what happens is when you're starting to, if you will, look at that data to get it wrapped up in the ransomware or malware, you have a whole bunch of extra activity around the backup data sets, so we send an alert. We'd send an alert to you, Lisa, and you would say, oh my god, what's going on? Why is all this activity going on the backup set? Because the backup's not scheduled, let's say, for tonight. And we would send you a note now, at two o'clock, that there's all kinds of activity, and you would go, what is going on, and you would check it out. So we can help with ransomware and malware, encryption on primary data. So we've really integrated across the portfolio, whether it be primary storage or secondary storage. And by the way, almost nobody thinks about storage. They always say, whose security package should I buy? And they never say okay, I'm going to buy it, but I, might buy some security for the storage, too. No one ever talks like that, which is why we're bringing up, and we actually launched a sales play for the field, all around storage for cyber resiliency. >> And how is that going, if you're saying it's-- >> It's actually gone incredibly well. We started with a product called Safeguarded Copy on the mainframe, and we actually got, in the first four months, almost $60 million a pipeline in the first four months of the product shipping. And now we've got it all over the whole portfolio, so we tried it just when we first got started, and now we're now talking about the ransomware and malware stuff, which by the way we've had for three years, but we were never emphasizing it to the end user. Now we're saying, by the way, has it happened or are you worried about it? Well guess what, if you're backing up with Spectrum Protect, we'll warn you. Why don't you go out to tape and air gap? Or why you don't go out to the cloud and we can do essentially a cloud air gap to object storage? And we weren't really talking like that until really we started doing it in Q4 and then really expanded it in Q1, so it's been very, very successful. The end users love it, our business partners who sell to the end users, they're loving it. And by the way, no one else is really talking about it. It's all about the security software company. So we're going beyond that. >> So, Eric, you talked about some of the products with Cisco and IBM working together. I wonder if you can up-level a little bit. You're a great watcher of the industry out there. Chuck Robbins, now four years into his tenure as CEO, Wall Street's doing well with the stock on there, finances look well. IBM and Cisco, two of the bellwethers in tech out there. How's Cisco doing? When you talk to your customers, what are they liking about Cisco, what do they want to see more from Cisco, are they aware of the transformation that Cisco's going through? >> Well, I think there's a couple things. First of all, IBM and Cisco have a mutual relationship that spans billions of dollars. Whether that be, for example, as they publicly have disclosed, IBM is the biggest customer for WebEx on the planet, and they talked about that. There's products that we sell to them that they're one of our biggest customers in the world as well. But then beyond that, whether it's common end users or common channel partners, we make sure that we deliver the right solutions together. So I think the feedback I get from both the end users and the partners is that Cisco's back. Right when Chuck came in, said, oh, what's going on with Cisco? They're still big, but the big sometimes fall over big, right? Like in the beanstalk, the giant falls over, right? So that's what I think people were thinking four years, I don't think people are thinking that now. From our perspective, we've always kept working tightly with them, between our relationship with them as a customer and us as their customer. But more importantly, it's really the common customers we have and the common channel partners, and we've never wavered for that support from a Cisco perspective. But just sort of off the cuff, when people make a comment that's like, hey, those Cisco guys are back. And four years ago people were saying, ehh, what do you think about Cisco? My wife works at Cisco, and my ex-wife works at Cisco, so it's a little easier for them to ask me that. Because I'm a Cisco shareholder too. But now you don't hear that question. It's like Cisco's got their act together, they're doing all the right stuff. So that's very good for me personally with my stock, but it's also good just for the industry. You know, you don't want someone to not be able to make the transition. And the valley's littered with that. DEC, Compaq, they're all gone. They're not the only guys that are gone. So Cisco's not going to go the way that other big companies have. They've made the transition and are transforming to what the end users really need. >> And I think the DevNet community growth is a great, speaks to the pivot that Cisco's making. DevNet has been in large part an accelerator of Cisco's transition from network appliance provider to more of a software services provider. But that community symbiosis with their end user customers, with their partners, and with their developer community, is really a driving force here. And I think just being in this DevNet Zone and how big it is, is a great example of how they're leveraging those other feedback channels to not just persist but be successful. So here we are, their Q3 2019 results are really strong, growth across all three business segments, we're in the middle of their fourth quarter. So for Cisco's FY 2020, what are some of the big bets that you can share with us that IBM and Cisco-- >> Well, the one we've done together has been one on security, so we have joint security products that we've done. We have a joint product on the system side with the VersaStack. We've done joint products with them also in the cloud solution area, both, if you think about hybrid cloud, but also in private cloud, so IBM Cloud Private for example is available on their HCI box, right, so their hyperconverged infrastructure solution includes an option for IBM Cloud Private. So IBM has made many bets with them in the security space, in the cloud space. Also, by the way, one of the biggest providers of service on Cisco solutions is actually IBM. So our services divisions do tons of business with Cisco, whether that's servicing the physical gear or servicing the software. And we've been doing that for years. So whether it be service, whether it be cloud, whether it be infrastructure, IBM is doing joint solutions across the board with the Cisco community. >> Got to ask you one last question, Eric. You've been in this industry a long time, you're a veteran extraordinaire. What keeps you excited about storage? >> Storage always change. Storage is not boring. Storage is boring for the uneducated. It is the most exciting thing, it changes all the time. I remember one of the good things about IBM was not just an array, come here, we only just do backup software, we've got high-end storage arrays, we still do tape. We're by far the dominant player, and we're having a huge resurgence there with hyperscalers and cloud providers. We're going crazy with tape because, for them, they're all about saving money for backup and archive, and we're critical to that. We are the number two storage software company in the world, all of our software works off of our gear. Some of the other guys that sell lots of software, yeah, they sell lots, but it only works on their products. Our software works with all of our competitor's products. So that makes everything exciting. I've done this now for 35 years. I've seen hard drives that were the size of a dishwasher to now flash that fits into your phone, or my MacBook, I've got five terabytes of flash. So, you know, to me that's all exciting. And the software is where it really matters. You know, we've gone from bare metal to virtualization, now to containers and cloud. So there's always new stuff going on. But I really think part of the problem with storage is everybody takes it for granted and doesn't realize, if your storage doesn't work, isn't performing, isn't reliable, and isn't available, basically your entire infrastructure caves in. I don't care whether you're in the cloud, whether you're in a virtual world, or you're still doing it really old hat with bare metal, the storage doesn't work, you're shutting down your company until that storage is back up and running again. So it is the critical foundation for every application workload and use case, in any company, big, medium, or small. And it's always evolving. So to me it's very exciting, although some people think storage is boring. I'd say networking is boring. That, to me, is boring. (Lisa laughs) Storage is exciting. >> Stu: Don't say that too loud, here. (Eric laughs) >> That's true, storage is sexy. Well Eric, it's been a pleasure to have you back on theCUBE once again, and we very much appreciate your time. >> Great, well thank you for having us. >> Our pleasure. For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live, from Cisco Live in San Diego.

[Music] and y'all know that these [Music] ladies and gentlemen please take your seats and silence your cellphone's our program will begin shortly ladies and gentlemen please welcome Red Hat executive vice president and chief people officer dallisa Alexander an executive vice president and chief marketing officer Tim Layton [Music] hi everyone we're so excited to kick off this afternoon day 2 at the Red Hat summit we've got a stage full of stories about people making amazing contributions with open source well you know dallisa you and I both been coming to this event for a long long time so what keeps you coming back well you know the summit started as a tech conference an amazing tech conference but now it's expanded to be so much more this year I'm really thrilled that we're able to showcase the power of open source going way beyond the data center and beyond the cloud and I'm here also on a secret mission oh yes I'm here to make sure you don't make too many bad dad jokes so there's no such thing as a bad dad they're just dad jokes are supposed to be bad but I promise to keep it to my limit but I do have one okay I may appeal to the geeks in the audience okay so what do you call a serving tray full of empty beer cans yeah we container platform well that is your one just the one that's what I only got a budget of one all right well you know I have to say though in all seriousness I'm with you yeah I've been coming to the summit since its first one and I always love to hear what new directions people are scoring what ideas they're pursuing and the perspectives they bring and this afternoon for example you're gonna hear a host of different perspectives from a lot of voices you wouldn't often see on a technology mainstage in our industry and it's all part of our open source series live and I have to say there's been a lot of good buzz about this session all week and I'm truly honored and inspired to be able to introduce them all later this afternoon I can tell you over the course the last few weeks I've spent time with all of them and every single one of them is brilliant they're an innovator they're fearless and they will restore your faith in the next generation you know I can't wait to see all these stories all of that and we've got some special guests that are surprised in store for us you know one of the things that I love about the people that are coming on the stage today with us is that so many of them teach others how to code and they're also bringing more people that are very different in to our open-source communities helping our community is more innovative and impactful and speaking of innovative and impactful that's the purpose of our open brand project right that's right we're actually in the process of exploring a refresh of our mark and we'd really like your help as well because we're doing this all in the open we've we've been doing it already in the open and so please join us in our feedback zone booth at the summit to tell us what you think now it's probably obvious but I'm big into Red Hat swag I've got the shirt I've got my pen I've got the socks so this is really important to me personally especially that when my 15 year old daughter sees me in my full regalia she calls me adorable okay that joke was fed horrible as you're done it wasn't it wasn't like I got way more well Tim thanks for helping us at this stage for today it's time to get started with our first guest all right I'll be back soon thank you the people I'm about to bring on the stage are making outstanding contributions to open source in new and brave ways they are the winners of the 2018 women and open source Awards the women in open source awards was created to highlight the contributions that women are making to open source and to inspire new generations to join the movement our judges narrowed down the panel a very long list just ten finalists and then the community selected our two winners that were honoring today let's learn a little bit more about them [Music] a lot of people assume because of my work that I must be a programmer engineer when in fact I specifically chose and communications paths for my career but what's fascinating to me is I was able to combine my love of Communications and helping people with technology and interesting ways I'm able to not be bound by the assumptions that everybody has about what the technology can and should be doing and can really ask the question of what if it could be different I always knew I wanted to be in healthcare just because I feel like has the most impact in helping people a lot of what I've been working on is geared towards developing technology and the health space towards developing world one of the coolest things about open-source is bringing people together working with other people to accomplish amazing things there's so many different projects that you could get involved in you don't even have to be the smartest person to be able to make impact when you're actually developing for someone I think it's really important to understand the need when you're pushing innovation forward sometimes the cooler thing is not [Music] for both of us to have kind of a health care focus I think it's cool because so many people don't think about health care as being something that open-source can contribute to it took a while for it to even get to the stage where it is now where people can open-source develop on concepts and health and it's an untapped potential to moving the world for this award is really about highlighting the work of dozens of women and men in this open source community that have made this project possible so I'm excited for more people to kind of turn their open-source interest in healthcare exciting here is just so much [Music] I am so honored to be able to welcome to the stage some brilliant women and opensource first one of our esteemed judges Denise Dumas VP of software engineering at Red Hat she's going to come up and share her insights on the judging process Denise so you've been judging since the very beginning 2015 what does this judge this being a judge represents you what does the award mean to you you know every year it becomes more and more challenging to select the women an opensource winner because every year we get more nominees and the quality of the submissions well there are women involved in so many fabulous projects so the things that I look for are the things that I value an open source initiative using technology to solve real world problems a work ethic that includes sin patches and altruism and I think that you'll see that this year's nominees this year's winners really epitomize those qualities totally agree shall we bring them on let's bring them on let's welcome to the stage Zoe de gay and Dana Lewis [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] alright let's take a seat [Applause] well you both have had an interesting path to open-source zuy you're a biomedical engineering student any of it you have a degree in public relations tell us what led to your involvement and open source yeah so coming to college I was new I was interested in science but I didn't want to be a medical doctor and I didn't want to get involved in wet lab research so through classes I was taking oh that's why I did biomedical engineering and through classes I was taking I found the classroom to be very dry and I didn't know how how can I apply what I'm learning and so I got involved in a lot of entrepreneurship on campus and through one of the projects I was asked to build a front end and I had no idea how to go about doing that and I had some basic rudimentary coding knowledge and what happened was I got and was digging deep and then found an open source library that was basically building a similar thing that I needed and that was where I learned about open source and I went from there now I'm really excited to be able to contribute to many communities and work on a variety of projects amazing contributions Dana tell us about your journey well I come from a non-traditional background but I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 14 and over the next couple years got really frustrated with the limitations of my own diabetes devices but felt like I couldn't change them because that wasn't my job as a patient but it was actually through social media I discovered someone who had solved one of the problems that I had been found having which was getting date off my diabetes device and that's how I learned about open source was when he was willing to share his code with me so when we turned around and made this hybrid closed-loop artificial pancreas system it was a no brainer to make our work open source as well that's right absolutely and we see using the hash tag we are not waiting can you tell us about that yeah so this hash tag was created actually before I even discovered the open source diabetes world but I loved it because it really illustrates exactly the fact that we have this amazing technology in our hands in our pockets and we can solve some of our most common problems so yes you could wait but waiting is now a choice with open source we have the ability to solve some of our hardest problems even problems dealing with life and death that's great so zuy with the vaccine carrier system that you helped to build how were you able to identify the need and where did you build it yes so I think before you even build anything first need to understand what is the problem that you're trying to solve and that really was the case when starting this project I got to collaborate with engineers in Kampala Uganda and travel there and actually interview stakeholders in the medical field medical doctors as well as pharmaceutical companies and from there I really got to understand the health system there as well as what is how do vaccines enter the country and how can we solve this problem and that's how we came up with the solution for an IOT based vaccine carrier tracking system I think it's really important especially today when products might be flashy to also understand what is the need behind it and how do we solve problems with these products yeah yeah it's so interesting how both of you have this interest in health care Dana how do you see open-source playing a role in healthcare but first before you answer that tell us about your shirt so this shirt has the code of my artificial pancreas on it and I love it as an illustration of no thank you I love it as an illustration of how open-source is more than we think it is I've just been blown away by the contributions of people in my open-source communities and I think that that is what we should apply to all of healthcare there's a lot of tools and technologies that are solving real world problems and I think if we take what we know in technology and apply it to healthcare we'll solve a lot of problems more quickly but it really needs to be recognizing everything an open source it's the documentation it's the collaboration it's the problem-solving it's working together to take technologies that we didn't previously think we're applicable and finding new ways to apply it it's a great answer Sooey yeah I think especially where healthcare is related to people and open-source is the right way to collaborate with people all over the world especially in the project I've been working on we're looking at vaccines in Uganda but the same system can be applied in any other country and then you can look at cross countries health systems there and from there it becomes bigger and bigger and I think it's really important for people who have an idea and want to take it further to know that open-source is a way that you could actually take your idea further whether you have a technical background or not so yeah stories are amazing you're just an inspiration for everyone in open-source I want to thank you so much for joining us here today let's give another round of applause to our winners [Applause] [Music] you know the tagline for the award is honor celebrate inspire and I feel like we've been doing that today very very well and I know that so many people have been inspired today especially the next generation who go on to do things we can't even dream of yet [Music] I think collabs important because we need to make sure we get younger children interested in technology so that they understand the value of it but also that there are a lot of powerful women in technology and they can be one of them I hope after this experience maybe we'll get some engineers and some girls working our hot so cool right well we have some special guests convite for the club stage now I'd like to invite Tim back and also introduce Red Hat's own Jamie Chappell along with our collab students please welcome Gabby tenzen Sofia lyric Camila and a Volyn [Applause] you've been waiting for this moment for a while we're so excited hear all about your experiences but Jamie first tell us about collab sure so collab is red hats way of teaching students about the power of open source and collaboration we kicked off a little over a year ago in Boston and that was so successful that we decided to embark on an East Coast tour so in October we made stops at middle schools in New York DC and Raleigh and these amazing people over here are from that tour and this week they have gone from student to teacher so they've hosted two workshops where they have taught Red Hat summit attendees how to turn raspberry pies into digital cameras they assigned a poem song of the open road by Walt Whitman and they've been working at the open source stories booth helping to curate photos for an installation we're excited to finish up tomorrow so amazing and welcome future women in open source we want to know all about your experiences getting involved can you tell us tenzen tell us about something you've learned so during my experience with collab I learned many things but though however the ones that I valued the most were open source and women empowerment I just I was just so fascinated about how woman were creating and inventing things for the development of Technology which was really cool and I also learned about how open source OH was free and how anyone could access it and so I also learned that many people could you know add information to it so that other people could you learn from it and use it as well and during Monday's dinner I got this card saying that the world needed more people like you and I realized through my experience with collab that the world does not only need people like me but also everyone else to create great technology so ladies you know as you were working on your cameras and the coding was there a moment in time that you had an AHA experience and I'm really getting this and I can do this yes there was an aha moment because midway through I kind of figured out well this piece of the camera went this way and this piece of the camera did it go that way and I also figured out different features that were on the camera during the camera build I had to aha moments while I was making my camera the first one was during the process of making my camera where I realized I was doing something wrong and I had to collaborate with my peers in order to troubleshoot and we realize I was doing something wrong multiple times and I had to redo it and redo it but finally I felt accomplished because I finished something I worked hard on and my second aha moment was after I finished building my camera I just stared at it and I was in shock because I built something great and it was so such a nice feeling so we talked a lot about collaboration when we were at the lab tell us about how learning about collaboration in the lab is different than in school so in school collaboration is usually few and far between so when we went to collab it allowed us to develop new skills of creativity and joining our ideas with others to make something bigger and better and also allowed us to practice lots of cooperation an example of this is in my group everybody had a different problem with their pie camera and we had to use our different strengths to like help each other out and everybody ended up assembling and working PI camera great great awesome collaboration in collab and the school is very different because in collab we were more interactive more hands-on and we had to work closer together to achieve our own goals and collaboration isn't just about working together but also combining different ideas from different people to get a product that is so much better than some of its parts so girls one other interesting observation this actually may be for the benefit of the folks in our audience but out here we have represented literally hundreds and hundreds of companies all of whom are going to be actually looking for you to come to work for them after today we get first dibs that's right but um you know if you were to have a chance to speak to these companies and say what is it that they could do to help inspire you know your your friends and peers and get them excited about open source what would you say to them well I'm pretty sure we all have app store and I'm pretty sure we've all downloaded an app on that App Store well instead of us downloading app State well the computer companies or the phone companies they could give us the opportunity to program our own app and we could put it on the App Store great idea absolutely I've got to tell you I have a 15 year old daughter and I think you're all going to be an inspiration to her for the same absolutely so much so I see you brought some cameras why don't we go down and take a picture let's do it [Applause] all right I will play my very proud collab moderator role all right so one two three collab okay one two three [Applause] yeah so we're gonna let leave you and let you tell us more open source stories all right well thank you great job thank you all and enjoy the rest of your time at Summit so appreciate it thanks thank you everyone pretty awesome pretty awesome and I would just like to say they truly are fedorable that's just um so if you would like to learn more as you heard the girls say they're actually Manning our open-source stories booth at the summit you know please come down and say hello the stories you've seen thus far from our women and open-source winners as well as our co-op students are really bringing to life the theme of this year's summit the theme of ideas worth exploring and in that spirit what we'd like to do is explore another one today and that is how open-source concepts thrive and expand in the neverending organic way that they do much like the universe metaphor that you see us using here it's expanding in new perspectives and new ideas with voices beyond their traditional all starting to make open-source much bigger than what it was originally started as fact open-source goes back a long way long before actually the term existed in those early days you know in the early 80s and the like most open-source projects were sort of loosely organized collections of self-interested developers who are really trying to build low-cost more accessible replicas of commercial software yet here we are 2018 the world is completely different the open-source collaborative development model is the font of almost all original new innovation in software and they're driven from communities communities of innovation RedHat of course has been very fortunate to have been able to build an extraordinary company you know whose development model is harnessing these open-source innovations and in turning them into technologies consumable by companies even for their most mission-critical applications the theme for today though is we see open-source this open source style collaboration and innovation moving beyond just software this collaborative community innovation is starting to impact many facets of society and you're starting to see that even with the talks we've had already too and this explosion of community driven innovation you know is again akin to this universe metaphor it expands in all directions in a very organic way so for red hat you know being both beneficiaries of this approach and stewards of the open collaboration model we see it important for us to give voice to this broader view of open source stories now when we say open source in this context of course will meaning much more than just technology it's the style of collaboration the style of interaction it's the application of open source style methods to the innovation process it's all about accelerating innovation and expanding knowledge and this can be applied to a whole range of human endeavors of course in education as we just saw today on stage in agriculture in AI as the open source stories we shared at last year's summit in emerging industries like healthcare as we just saw in manufacturing even the arts all these are areas that are now starting to benefit from collaboration in driving innovation but do we see this potentially applying to almost any area of human endeavor and it expands again organically expanding existing communities with the addition of new voices and new participants catalyzing new communities and new innovations in new areas as we were talking about and even being applied inside organizations so that individual companies and teams can get the same collaborative innovation effects and most profound certainly in my perspective is so the limitless bounds that exist for how this open collaboration can start to impact some of humankind's most fundamental challenges we saw a couple of examples in fact with our women and open-source winners you know that's amazing but it also potentially is just the tip of the iceberg so we think it's important that these ideas you know as they continue to expand our best told through storytelling because it's a way that you can embrace them and find your own inspirations and that's fundamentally the vision behind our open-source stories and it's all about you know building on what's come before you know the term we use often is stay the shoulders are giants for a lot of the young people that you've seen on this stage and you're about to see on this stage you all are those giants you're the reason and an hour appears around the world are the reasons that open-source continues to expand for them you are those giants the other thing is we all particularly in this room those of us have been around open-source we have an open-source story of our own you know how were you introduced the power of open-source how did you engage a community who inspired you to participate those are all interesting elements of our personal open-source stories and in most cases each of them are punctuated by you here my question to the girls on stage an aha moment or aha moments you know that that moment of realization that enlightens you and causes you to think differently and to illustrate I'm going to spend just a few minutes sharing my open-source story for for one fundamental reason I've been in this industry for 38 years I am a living witness to the entire life of open-source going back to the early 80s I've been doing this in the open-source corner of the industry since the beginning if you've listened to Sirhan's command-line heroes podcasts my personal open story will actually be quite familiar with you because my arc is the same as the first several podcast as she talked about I'm sort of a walking history lesson in fact of open source I wound up at most of the defining moments that should have changed how we did this not that I was particularly part of the catalyst I was just there you know sort of like the Forrest Gump of open-source I was at all these historical things but I was never really sure how it went up there but it sure was interesting so with that as a little bit of context I'm just gonna share my aha moment how did I come to be you know a 59 year old in this industry for 38 years totally passionate about not just open source driving software innovation but what open source collaboration can do for Humanity so in my experience I had three aha moments I just like to share with you the first was in the early 80s and it was when I was introduced to the UNIX operating system and by the way if you have a ha moment in the 80s this is what it looks like so 1982 mustache 19 where were you 2018 beard that took a long time to do all right so as I said my first aha moment was about the technology itself in those early days of the 80s I became a product manager and what at the time was digital equipment corporation's workstation group and I was immediately drawn to UNIX I mean certainly these this is the early UNIX workstation so the user interface was cool but what I really loved was the ability to do interactive programming via the shell but by a--basically the command line and because it was my day job to help figure out where we took these technologies I was able to both work and learn and play all from the same platform so that alone was was really cool it was a very accessible platform the other thing that was interesting about UNIX is it was built with networking and and engagement in mind had its own networking stack built in tcp/ip of course and actually built in a set of services for those who've been around for a while think back to things like news groups and email lists those were the first enablers for cross internet collaboration and that was really the the elements that really spoke to me he said AHA to me that you know this technology is accessible and it lets people engage so that was my first aha moment my second aha moment came a little bit later at this point I was an executive actually running Digital Equipment Corporation UNIX systems division and it was at a time where the UNIX wars were raging right all these companies we all compartmentalized Trump those of the community and in the end it became an existential threat to the platform itself and we came to the point where we realized we needed to actually do something we needed to get ahead of this or UNIX would be doomed the particular way we came together was something called cozy but most importantly the the technique we learned was right under our noses and it was in the area of distributed computing distributed client-server computing inherently heterogenous and all these same companies that were fierce competitors at the operating system level were collaborating incredibly well around defining the generation of client-server and distributed computing technologies and it was all being done in open source under actually a BSD license initially and Microsoft was a participant Microsoft joined the open group which was the converged standards body that was driving this and they participated to ensure there was interoperability with Windows and and.net at the time now it's no spoiler alert that UNIX lost right we did but two really important things came out of that that sort of formed the basis of my second aha moment the first is as an industry we were learning how to collaborate right we were leveraging open source licenses we realized that you know these complex technologies are best done together and that was a huge epiphany for the industry at that time and the second of course is that event is what opened the door for Linux to actually solve that problem so my second aha was all about the open collaboration model works now at this point to be perfectly candidates late 1998 well we've been acquired by compacts when I'm doing the basically same role at Compaq and I really had embraced what the potential impact of this was going to be to the industry Linux was gaining traction there were a lot of open source projects emerging in distributed computing in other areas so it was pretty clear to me that the in business impact was going to be significant and and that register for me but there was seem to be a lot more to it that I hadn't really dropped yet and that's when I had my third aha moment and that was about the passion of open-source advocates the people so you know at this time I'm running a big UNIX group but we had a lot of those employees who were incredibly passionate about about Linux and open source they're actively participating so outside of working a lot of things and they were lobbying more and more for the leadership to embrace open source more directly and I have to say their passion was contagious and it eventually spread to me you know they were they were the catalyst for my personal passion and it also led me to rethink what it is we needed to go do and that's a passion that I carry forward to this day the one driven by the people and I'll tell you some interesting things many of those folks that were with us at Compaq at the time have gone on to be icons and leaders in open-source today and many of them actually are involved with with Red Hat so I'll give you a couple of names that some of whom you will know so John and Mad Dog Hall work for me at the time he was the person who wrote the first edition of Linux for dummies he did that on his own time when he was working for us he he coined he was part of the small team that coined the term open source' some other on that team that inspired me Brian Stevens and Tim Burke who wrote the first version to rent out Enterprise Linux actually they did that in Tim Burke's garage and cost Tim's still with Red Hat today two other people you've already seen him on stage today Denise Dumas and Marko bill Peter so it was those people that I was fortunate enough to work with early on who had passion for open-source and much like me they carry it forward to this day so the punchline there is they ultimately convinced us to you know embrace open-source aggressively in our strategy and one of the interesting things that we did as a company we made an equity investment in Red Hat pre-ipo and a little funny sidebar here I had to present this proposal to the compact board on investing in Red Hat which was at that time losing money hand over fist and they said well Tim how you think they're gonna make money selling free software and I said well you know I don't really know but their customers seem to love them and we need to do this and they approve the investment on the spot so you know how high do your faith and now here we are at a three billion dollar run rate of this company pretty extraordinary so from me the third and final ha was the passion of the people in the way it was contagious so so my journey my curiosity led me first to open source and then to Red Hat and it's been you know the devotion of my career for over the last thirty years and you know I think of myself as pretty literate when it comes to open source and software but I'd be the first one to admit I would have never envisioned the extent to which open source style collaboration is now being brought to bear on some of the most interesting challenges in society so the broader realization is that open source and open can really unlock the world's potential when applied in the collaborative innovative way so what about you you know you many of you particular those have been around for a while you probably have an open source story of your own for those that maybe don't or they're new to open source are new to Red Hat your open source story may be a single inspiration away it may happen here at the summit we certainly hope so it's how we build the summit to engage you you may actually find it on this stage when I bring up some of the people who are about to follow me but this is why we tell open-source stories and open source stories live so each of you hopefully has a chance to think about you know your story and how it relates over source so please take advantage of all the things that are here at the summit and and find your inspiration if you if you haven't already so next thing is you know in a spirit of our telling open source stories today we're introducing our new documentary film the science of collective discovery it's really about citizen scientists using open systems to do serious science in their backyards and environmental areas and the like we're going to preview that I'm gonna prove it preview it today and then please come see it tonight later on when we preview the whole video so let's take a look I may not have a technical scientific background but I have one thing that the scientists don't have which is I know my backyard so conventional science happens outside of public view so it's kind of in this black box so most are up in the ivory tower and what's exciting about citizen science is that it brings it out into the open we as an environmental community are engaging with the physical world every day and you need tools to do that we needed to democratize that technology we need to make it lightweight we need to make it low-cost we needed to make it open source so that we could put that technology in the hands of everyday people so they go out and make those measurements where they live and where they breathe when you first hear about an environmental organization you mostly hear about planting trees gardens things like that you don't really think about things that are really going to affect you hey we're the air be more they'd hold it in their hand making sure not to cover the intake or the exhaust I just stand here we look at the world with forensic eyes and then we build what you can't see so the approach that we're really centered on puts humans and real issues at the center of the work and I think that's the really at the core of what open source is social value that underlies all of it it really refers to sort of the rights and responsibilities that anyone on the planet has to participate in making new discoveries so really awesome and a great story and you know please come enjoy the full video so now let's get on with our open stories live speakers you're going to really love the rest of the afternoon we have three keynotes and a demo built in and I can tell you without exaggeration that when you see and hear from the young people we're about to bring forward you know it's truly inspirational and it's gonna restore totally your enthusiasm for the future because you're gonna see some of the future leaders so please enjoy our open source stories live presentation is coming and I'll be back to join you in a little bit thanks very much please welcome code newbie founder Saran yep Eric good afternoon how y'all doing today oh that was pretty weak I think you could do better than that how y'all doing today wonderful much better I'm Saran I am the founder of code newbie we have the most supportive community of programmers and people learning to code this is my very first Red Hat summits I'm super pumped super excited to be here today I'm gonna give you a talk and I'm going to share with you the key to coding progress yes and in order to do that I'm gonna have to tell you a story so two years ago I was sitting in my hotel room and I was preparing for a big talk the next morning and usually the night before I give a big talk I'm super nervous I'm anxious I'm nauseous I'm wondering why I keep doing this to myself all the speakers backstage know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about and the night before my mom knows this so she almost always calls just to check in to see how I'm doing to see how I'm feeling and she called about midnight the night before and she said how are you how are you doing are you ready and I said you know what this time I feel really good I feel confident I think I'm gonna do a great job and the reason was because two months ago I'd already given that talk in fact just a few days prior they had published the video of that talk on YouTube and I got some really really good positive feedback I got feedback from emails and DMS and Twitter and I said man I know people really like this it's gonna be great in fact that video was the most viewed video of that conference and I said to my office said you know what let's see how many people loved my talk and still the good news is that 14 people liked it and a lot more people didn't and I saw this 8 hours before I'm supposed to give that exact same talk and I said mom I gotta call you back do you like how I did that to hang up the phone as if that's how cellphones work yeah and so I looked at this and I said oh my goodness clearly there's a huge disconnect I thought they were really liked they were I thought they were into it and this showed me that something was wrong what do you do what do you do when you're about to give that same talk in 8 hours how do you begin finding out what the problem is so you can fix it I have an idea let's read the comments you got to believe you gotta have some optimism come on I said let's read the comments because I'm sure we'll find some helpful feedback some constructive criticism some insights to help me figure out how to make this talk great so that didn't happen but I did find some really colorful language and some very creative ideas of what I could do with myself now there are some kids in the audience so I will not grace you with these comments but there was this one comment that did a really great job of capturing the sentiment of what everyone else was saying I can only show you the first part because the rest is not very family-friendly but it reads like this how do you talk about coding and not fake societal issues see the thing about that talk is it wasn't just a code talk it was a code and talk is about code and something else that talked touched on code and social justice I talked a lot about how the things that we build the way we build them affect real people and their problems and their struggles and that was absolutely not okay not okay we talk about code and code only not the social justice stuff it also talked about code and diversity yeah I think we all know the diversity is really about lowering the bar it forces us to talk about people and their issues and their problems in their history and we just don't do that okay absolutely inappropriate when it comes to a Tech Talk That Talk touched on code and feelings and feelings are squishy they're messy they're icky and a lot of us feel uncomfortable with feelings feelings have no place in technology no place in code we want to talk about code and code I want you to show me that API and when you show me that new framework that new tool that's gonna solve my problems that's all I care about I want to talk about code and give me some more code with it now I host a podcast called command line heroes it's an original podcast from Red Hat super excited about it if you haven't checked it out and totally should and what I love about this show as we talk about these really important moments and open swords these inflection points moments where we see progress we move forward and what I realized looking back at those episodes is all of those episodes have a code and something let's look at a few of those the first two episodes focused on the history of operating systems as a two-part episode part 1 and part 2 and there's lots of different ways we can talk about operating systems for these two episodes we started by talking about Windows and Mac OS and how these were two very powerful very popular operating systems but a lot of a lot of developers were frustrated with them they were closed you couldn't see inside you can see what it was doing and I the developer want to know what it's doing on my machine so we kind of had a little bit of a war one such developer who was very frustrated said I'm gonna go off and do my own thing my name is Linus this thing is Linux and I'm gonna rally all these other developers all these other people from all over the old to come together and build this new thing with me that is a code and moment in that case it was code and frustration it was a team of developers a world of developers literally old world of developers who said I'm frustrated I'm fed up I want something different and I'm gonna do something about it and what's really beautiful about frustration is it the sign of passion we're frustrated because we care because we care so much we love so deeply then we want to do something better next episode is the agile revolution this one was episode three now the agile revolution is a very very important moment in open-source and technology in general and this was in response to the way that we used to create products we used to give this huge stack of specs all these docs from the higher-ups and we'd take it and we go to our little corner and we lightly code and build and then a year with Pastor here's a pass a few years have passed and we'd finally burst forth with this new product and hope that users liked it and loved it and used it and I know something else will do that today it's okay no judgment now sometimes that worked and a lot of times it didn't but whether or not it actually worked it hurt it was painful these developers not enjoy this process so what happened a dozen developers got together and literally went off into their own and created something called the agile manifesto now this was another code and moment here it's code and anger these developers were so angry that they literally left civilization went off into a mountain to write the agile manifesto and what I love about this example is these developers did not work at the same company we're not on the same team they knew each other from different conferences and such but they really came from different survive and they agreed that they were so angry they were going to literally rewrite the way we created products next as an example DevOps tear down the wall this one is Episode four now this is a bit different because we're not talking about a piece of technology or even the way we code here we're talking about the way we work together the way that we collaborate and here we have our operations folks and our developers and we've created this new kind of weird place thing called DevOps and DevOps is interesting because we've gotten to a point where we have new tools new toys so that our developers can do a lot of the stuff that only the operations folks used to be able to do that thing that took days weeks months to set up I can do it with a slider it's kind of scary I can do it with a few buttons and here we have another code and moment and here that blink is fear for two reasons the operations focus is looking over the developer folks and thinking that was my job I used to be able to do that am I still valuable do I have a place in this future do I need to retrain there's also another fear which is those developers know what they're doing do they understand the security implications they appreciate how hard it is or something to scale and how to do that properly and I'm really interested in excited to see where we go with that where we take that emotion if we look at all of season one of the podcast we see that there's always a code and whether it's a code and frustration a code and anger or a code and fear it always boils down to code and feelings feelings are powerful in almost every single episode we see that that movement forward that progress is tied back to some type of Oshin and for a lot of us this is uncomfortable feelings make us feel weird and a lot of those YouTube commenters definitely do not like this whole feeling stuff don't be like those YouTube commenters there's one thing you take away from this whole talk let it be that don't be like these YouTube commenters feelings are incredibly powerful so the next time that you're working on a project you're having a conversation about a piece of software or a new piece of technology and you start to get it worked up you get angry you get frustrated maybe you get worried you get anxious you get scared I hope you recognize that feeling as a source of energy I hope you take that energy and you help us move forward I would take that to create the next inflection point that next step in the right direction feelings are your superpowers and I hope you use your powers for good thank you so much [Applause] please welcome jewel-box chief technology officer Sara Chipps [Music] Wow there's a lot of you out here how's it going I know there's a lot of you East Coasters here as well and I'm still catching up on that sleep so I hope you guys are having a great experience also my name is Sarah I'm here from New York I have been a software developer for 17 years it's longer than some of the people on stage today I've been alive big thanks to the folks at Red Hat for letting us come and tell you a little bit about jewel box so without further ado I'm gonna do exactly that okay so today we're gonna do a few things first I'm gonna tell you why we built jewel BOTS and why we think it's a really important technology I'm gonna show you some amazing magic and then we're gonna have one of the jewel bus experts come as a special guest and talk to you more about the deep technology behind what we're building so show hands in the audience who here was under 18 years old when they started coding it's hard for me to see you guys yep look around I'd have to say at least 50% of you have your hands up all right keep your hand up if you were under 15 when you started coding I think more hands up just what is it I don't know how that mouth works but awesome okay great yeah a little of I think about half of you half of you have your hands up that's really neat I've done a bunch of informal polls on the internet about this I found that probably about two-thirds of professional coders were under 18 when they started coding I myself was 11 I was a homeschooled kid so a little weird I'm part of the generation and some of you maybe as well is the reason we became coders is because we were lonely not because we made a lot of money so I was 11 this is before the internet was a thing and we had these things called BBS's and you would call up someone else's computer in your town and you would hang out with people and chat with them and play role-playing games with them it didn't have to be your town but if it wasn't your mom would yell at you for a long distance fees and I got really excited about computers and coding because of the community that I found online okay so this is sometimes the most controversial part of this presentation I promised you that they dominate our lives in many ways even if you don't even if you don't even know a 9 to 14 year old girl even if you just see them on the street sometimes they are deciding what you and I do on a regular basis hear me out for a second here so who here knows who this guy is okay you don't have to raise your hands but I think most people know who this guy is right so this guy used to be this guy and then teenage girls were like I think this guy has some talent to him I think that he's got a future and now he's a huge celebrity today what about this guy just got his first Oscar you know just kind of starting out well this guy used to be this guy and I'm proud to tell you that I am one of the many girls that discovered him and decided this guy has a future all right raise your hand if you listen to Taylor Swift just kidding I won't make you do it but awesome that's great so Taylor Swift we listen to Taylor Swift because these girls discovered Taylor Swift it wasn't a 35 year old that was like this Taylor Swift is pretty neat no one cares what we think but even bigger than that these huge unicorns that all of us some of us work for some of us wish we invented these were discovered by young teenage girls no one is checking to see what apps were using they're finding new communities in these thin in these platforms and saying this is how I want to commune with my friends things like Instagram snapchat and musically all start with this demographic and then we get our cues from them if you don't know what musically is I promise you ask your nearest 9 to 14 year old friend if you don't do that you'll hear about it in a few years but this demographic their futures are all at risk everyone here knows how much the field of software development is growing and how important technical literacy is to the future of our youth however just 18% of computer science graduates are girls just 19% of AP computer science test takers and just 15% of Google's tech force identify as female so we decided to do something about that we were inspired by platforms like MySpace and Geocities things like Neopets and minecraft all places where kids find something they love and they're like okay to make this better all I have to do is learn how to code I can totally do that and so we wanted to do that so we talked to 200 girls we went to schools we sat down with them and we were like what makes you tick what are you excited about and what we heard from them over and over again is their friends their friends and their community are pivotal to them and this time in their lives so when we started talking to them about a smart friendship bracelet that's when they started really freaking out so we built Jewel BOTS and Jewel BOTS has an active online community where girls can work together share code that they've built and learn from each other help each other troubleshoot sometimes the way they work is when you are near your friends your bracelets light up the same color and you can use them to send secret messages to each other and you can also code them so you can say things like when all my swimming friends are together in the same room all of our bracelets should go rainbow colors which is really fun you can even build games jewel BOTS started shipping about a year and a half ago about after a lot of work and we are about to ship our 12,000 jewel bot we're in 38 city sorry 38 countries and we're just getting started okay so now it's time for the magic and I have an important question does anyone here want to be my friend pick me all right someone today Gary oh I don't have many friends that's awesome I'm so glad that we'll be friends okay it's awesome so we just need to pair our jewel BA okay okay and in order to do that we're gonna hold the magic button in the middle down for two seconds so one locomotive two locomotive great and then we got a white flashing I'm gonna do yours again I did it wrong locomotive two locomotive it's we're adults we can't do it okay it's a good that are smart alright so now we get to pick our friendship color I'm gonna pick red hat red does that work for you sure okay great so now I just picked a red hat red and my jewel bot is saying alright Tim's jewel bot do you want to be my friend and imageable about it's like I'm thinking about it I think so okay now we're ready okay great so now we're red friends when we're together our bracelets are going to be red and I will send you a secret message when it's time for you to come out and trip and introduce the next guest awesome well thank you so much thank you tailor gun so glad we could be friends and if only people would start following me on Twitter it'd be a great day awesome alright so now you can see the not so technical part of jewel box they use bluetooth to sense when your friends are nearby so they would work in about a 30 meter hundred foot range but to tell you about the actual technology part I'm going to introduce is someone much more qualified than I am so Ellie is one of our jewel box ambassadors she's an amazing YouTube channel that I would please ask you to check out and subscribe she's le G Joel BOTS on YouTube she's an amazing coder and I'm really excited to introduce you today to Ellie Galloway come on out Ellie [Applause] hello my name is le gallais I'm gonna show you how I got coding and then show you some coding in action I first started coding at a6 when my dad helped me code a game soon after I program form a code for Minecraft then my dad had shown me jo bot I keep coding because it helps people for instance for instance you could code auto crack to make it a lot smarter so it can help make people stay run faster but what about something more serious what if you could help answer 911 calls and give alerts before we start I have three main steps to share with you I often use these steps to encoding my jaw bot and continue to use some of these now step one read the instructions and in other words this means for Jabba to memorize the colors and positions a way to memorize these because it's tricky is to remember all the colors and positions you O type will be capital and remember that the positions are either short for north west south west north east and south east step to learn the basic codes when it comes to coding you need to work your way up step 3 discover feel free to discover once you mastered everything now let's get to coding let's use or let's first use combining lights so under void loop I'm going to put LED turn on single s/w and blue and before we make sure that this works we got to put LED LED okay now let's type this again LED dot turn on single now let's do SW green now we have our first sketch so let's explain what this means led LED is a function that to control the LED lights LED turn on single SW blue tells that SW light to turn blue and green flashes so quickly with the blue it creates aqua now let's do another code lets you i'm going to use a more advanced command to make a custom color using RGB let's use a soft pink using 255 105 and 180 now let's type this in the button press function so let's do LED led LED dot set light and now we can do let's do position 3 255 105 and 180 now let's explain what this means the first one stands for the position the three others stand for red green and blue our GPS can only go up to 255 but there are 256 levels but if you count the first one as zero then get 255 so let's first before we move on let's show how this works so this is it before and now let's turn it on to see how our aqua turned out now let's see how our RGB light turned out so we are looking for a soft pink so let's see how it looks think about how much the code you write can help people all around the world these are ideas are just the beginning of opening a new world in technology a fresh start is right around the corner I hope this helped you learn a little bit about coding and even made you want to try it out for yourself thank you [Applause] alright alright alright I need your help for a second guys alright one second really really fascinating we're short on time today is Ellie's 11th birthday and I think we should give her the biggest present that she's gonna get today and it's something none of us have experienced and that is thousands of people saying happy birthday Elliott wants so when I say three can I get a happy birthday Elly one two three happy birthday Elly great job that's the best part of my job okay so those are that's two of us we're just getting started this numbers out Dana would almost shipped 12,000 jewel BOTS and what I'm really excited to tell you about is that 44% of our users don't just play with their jewel bots they code them and they're coding C do you even code C I don't know that you do but we have 8 to 14 year olds coding C for their jewel box we also have hundreds of events where kids come and they learn how to code for the first time here's how you can help we're open source so check out our github get involved our communities online you can see the different features that people's are asking for we're also doing events all over the world a lot of people are hosting them at their companies if you're interested in doing so reach out to us thank you so much for coming and learning about jewel box today enjoy the rest of your summit [Music] ladies and gentlemen please welcome hacker femme au founder Femi who Bois de Kunz [Music] good afternoon red hat summit 2018 i'm femi holiday combs founder of hacker femme Oh I started coding when I was 8 when I was 9 I set up South London raspberry jam through crowdfunding to share my passion for coding with other young people who might not otherwise be exposed to tech since then I've run hundreds of coding and robot workshops across the UK and globally in 2017 I was awarded an inaugural legacy Diana award by their Royal Highnesses Prince William and Prince Harry my service and community we welcome young people who have autism or like me tract syndrome because coding linked me up to a wider community of like-minded people and I'm trying to do the same for those who might also benefit from this I also deliver workshops to corporate companies and public organizations whilst feeding back ideas and resources into my community work we like to cascade our knowledge and experience to other young coders so that they can benefit too we're learning new tech every day we're starting to use github to document and manage our coding projects we've no dread we're using the terminal and beginning to really appreciate Linux as we explore cybersecurity and blockchain it's been quite a journey from South London to the world-famous Tate Modern museum to Bangladesh to this my first trip to the States and soon to China where I hope to translate my microwave workshops into Mandarin on this journey I'm noticed it is increasingly important for young coders to have collaborative and community led initiatives and enterprise and career ready skills so my vision now is to run monthly meetups and in collaboration with business partners help a hundred young disadvantaged people to get jobs in the digital services in fact out of all the lessons I've learned from teaching young coders they all have one thing in common the power of open source and the importance of developing community and today I want to talk about three of those lessons the value of reaching out and collaborating the importance of partnering event price and the ability to self organize and persist which translated into English means having a can-do attitude getting stuff done when you reach out when you show curiosity you realize you're not alone in this diverse community no matter who you are and where you're from from coding with minecraft to meeting other young people with jams I found there are people like me doing things I like doing I get to connect with them that's where open-source comes to the fourth second the open source community is so vast then it crosses continents it's so immersed perspectives that it can take you to amazing places out of space even that's my code running on the International Space Station's Columbus module let's take a lesson and playing was an audio representation for the frequencies recorded in space my team developed Python code to measure and store frequency readings from the space station and that was down linked back to earth to my email box Thomas who's 10 developed an audio file using audacity and importing it back into Python how cool is that Trulli collaboration can take you places you never thought possible because that's how the community works when you throw a dilemma a problem a tip the open source community comes back with answers when you give the community gives back tenfold that's how open source expands but in that vast starscape how do you know what to focus on there are so many problems to solve where do I start your world enterprice enterprise software is very good at solving problems what's the big problem how about helping the next generation be ready for the future I want to do more for the young coding community so I'm developing entrepreneurial business links to get that done this is a way to promote pathways to deal with future business problems whether in FinTech healthcare or supply chains a meeting the skill shortage it is a case for emerging in it's a case for investing in emerging communities and young change enablers throwing a wider net equates to being fully inclusive with a good representation of diversity you know under the shadow of the iconic show back in London there are pockets of deprivation where young people can't even get a job in a supermarket many of them are interested in tech in some way so my goal for the next three years is to encourage young people to become an active part of the coding community with open source we have the keys to unlock the potential for future innovation and technological development with young coders we have the people who have to face these problems working on them now troubleshooting being creative connecting with each other finding a community discovering their strengths along the way for me after running workshops in the community for a number of years when I returned from introducing coding to young street kids in Bangladesh I realized I had skills and experience so I set up my business hacker Famicom my first monetized fehmi's coding boot camp at Rice London Barclays Bank it was a sellout and a few weeks later shows my second I haven't looked back since but it works the opposite way - all the money raised enable me to buy robots for my community events and I was able to cascade my end price knowledge across to other young coders - when you focus on business problems you get active enthusiastic support from enterprise and then you can take on anything the support is great and we have tons of ideas but what does it really take to execute on those ideas to get things done can-do attitudes what open source needs you've seen it all this week we're all explorers ideator z' thinkers and doers open source needs people who can make the ideas happen get out there and see them through like I did setting up Safford and raspberry jam as an inclusive space to collaborate and learn together and that that led to organizing the young coders conference this was about organizing our own two-day event for our partners in industry to show they value young people and wanted to invest in our growth it doesn't stop there oh nice now I'm setting up monthly coding meetups and looking at ways to help other young people to access job opportunities in end price and digital services the underlying ethos remains the same in all I do promoting young people with the desire to explore collaborative problem-solving when coding digital making and building enterprise you fled having the confidence to define our journey and pathways always being inclusive always encouraging innovation and creativity being doers does more than get projects done makes us a pioneering force in the community dreaming and doing is how we will make exponential leaps my generation is standing on the shoulders of giants you the open-source pioneers and the technology you will built so I'd love to hear about your experiences who brought you into the open-source community who taught you as we go to upscale our efforts we encounter difficulties have you and how did you overcome them please do come to talk to me I'll be in the open-source stories booth both today and tomorrow giving workshops or visit the Red Hat page of my website hack Famicom I really value your insights in conclusion I'd like I'd like to ask you to challenge yourself you can do this by supporting young coders find the crowdfunding campaign kick-start their ideas into reality I'm proof that it works it's so awesome to be an active part of the next exponential leap together thank you [Applause] so unbelievable huh you know he reminds me of be at that age not even close and I can tell you I've spent a lot of time with Femi and his mom grace I mean what you see is what you get I mean he's incredibly passionate committed and all that stuff he's doing that long list of things he's doing he's going to do so hopefully today you get a sense of what's coming in the next generation the amazing things that people are doing with collaboration I'd also like to thank in addition to femi I'd like to thank Sauron Sarah and Ellie for equally compelling talks around the open source stories and again as I mentioned before any one of you can have an open source story that can be up here inspiring others and that's really our goal in telling these stories and giving voice to the things that you've seen today absolutely extraordinary things are happening out there and I encourage you to take every advantage you can hear this week and as is our theme for the summit please keep exploring thank you very much [Applause] [Music]

(lively music) >> Announcer: It's the CUBE, covering SAPPHIRE NOW 2017, brought to you by SAP cloud platform and HANA Enterprise Cloud. >> Welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with the CUBE with our ongoing coverage of SAP SAPPHIRE 2017 down in Orlando. Really exciting day today, day two, 'cause we got to see Hasso Plattner. Got up and gave his keynote. Joined by George Gilbert. George, great to see you. I know you've known Hasso for years and years and years. Impressions of the kfeynote. God, there is so much stuff that we can dig into. I'm looking forward to it. >> Hasso almost never disappoints, 'cause he's just got %a richness of history and of vision that goes all the way back to the beginning. He was probably the technical visionary from the very beginning. He was the guy who took them from the first super integrated mainframe ERP package all the way to the client server age with R3, and now beyond into sort of in-memory, cloud ready, and with machine learning and iOT baked in. >> But he really speaks like a developer. You can really tell that he likes the technology, he understands the technology, he's kind of a no-BS guy. Some of the Q&A afterwards, people were trying to trip him up and challenge him on stuff. And he would either say, "I don't know," or, "I don't believe that," or, "Here's our impression." Really you could tell he's a humble guy, smart guy, and really has a grasp of what the heck is going on here. Let's jump into it. So many themes we could talk about. But the one that started out early in the conversation was, he literally said, "We need to get as quickly "to the cloud as possible." This is coming from a guy who built the company based on on prem ERP heavy lifting. And even he said today, 2017, "We need to get to the cloud as quickly as possible." >> I think there are a few things going on behind there, when you unpack it. One is, they did start building for the cloud in the early 2000's. It was meant to be a product for the mid-market. In fact, actually its first objective wasn't to be cloud-ready. The first objective was to be highly configurable so that you could bend it to the needs of many customers without customizing it, because typically with the customizations, it made it very difficult to upgrade. In making it configurable first and cloud-read second, they kind of accomplished neither. But they learned a lot. So they started on this next version, which was, okay, we're going to take an in-memory database which we're building from the ground up, 'cause Oracle wasn't building it at the time, and then we're going to build SAP ERP from scratch on top of this new database, 'cause database was so high performance that they didn't have to sepyarate analytics from transactions the way traditionally you do, you had to do in all applications. So they could simplify the app. Then, in simplifying it, they could make it easier to run in the cloud. And now, just like Oracle, just like Microsoft, they now build cloud first and on-prem second, because by building it cloud first, it sort of simplifies the assumptions that you have to make. >> Right, and he talked quite a bit about so much effort now is around integration connectors, to get stuff in and out of this thing. And that's a big focus, he said. It's not that we're ignoring it, it's just a big, hard, hairy problem that we're attacking. >> Yeah, and this is interesting and there's a lot of history behind this. Oracle, in the 90s, up until about the late 90s, their greatest success was in their industry-specific applications, where they took different modules from different vendors and stitched them together. That was how they built, like, a special solution for a consumer package goods company. But it turned out that that wasn't really workable because the different modules for the different vendors6 upgraded at different rates. So there was no way coherently to integrate them and tie them together. And SAP had said that all along. They were, like, this wasn't going to work. Fast forward to the last five-plus years, SAP started buying products from a bunch of different vendors, Ariba, SuccessFactors, Concur, Hybris. So you're, like, "Aren't they doing the same thing "Oracle did 10 year, 15 years before?" But no, and this is what Hasso was talking about today, which was, once those apps are in the cloud, you only have to build the integration points once. It's not like when it's on every customer's data center, you have to build integrations that work for every version that every customer has. So I think that's what he was talking about. You put it all in the cloud, you integrate it once. >> Another thing that he talked, he really, he spoke in tweets. (mumbles) goes to buy Twitter feed, I was basically, like, bang, bang, bang as he was talking. He talked about databases, and databases in the cloud. Nobody cares, right? It's a classic theme we hear over and over. "We presume it works. "We just want it to work." You know, it should just work. Nobody really cares what the underlying database is. >> But he was, in those cases, referring to these purchased apps, Concur, SuccessFactors, Ariba, Hybris. He was, like, "Some of them work on SQLServer, "some of 'em work on Oracle. "But you know what? "Until we get around to upgrading them to HANA, "it doesn't matter because you, the customer, "don't know that." If they were on prem and you had to support all those different databases, it might be a different story. But he's, like, "We'd rather give you the functionality "that's baked into them now "and get around to upgrading the databases later." >> Another thing that came up, and he actually reference the conversation with Michael Dell from yesterday's keynote, about the evolution of compute horsepower. You know, you had CPUs and CPUs kind of topped out. Then you had multicore CPUs. Now we have GPUs that he said you can put 10s or 100s of 1,000s on the board at one time. Basically he's smart guy, he's down the road a few steps from delivering today's product, saying that, you know, we're basically living in a era of unlimited free compute and kind of asymptotically approaching. But that's where we are. And how does that really change the way that we look now at new application development. I thought that was a pretty interesting thing. >> And sort of big advances in software architecture come from when you have a big change in the relative cost of compute memory, network storage. So as you were saying, cost of compute is approaching zero. But the same time, the cost of memory relative to storage is coming way down. So not only do you have these really beefy clusters with lots of compute, but you also have lots of memory. He was talking about something like putting 16 terabytes of memory in a server and putting 64 servers in a cluster, and all of a sudden, I can't do that math, being that I was a humanities major, but all of a sudden, you're talking about huge databases where you can crunch through this stuff very, very fast because it's all, you have lots of processors running in parallel and you have lots of memory. >> It's pretty interesting. He made an interesting statement. He used a sailor reference. He said, "You know, we are through the big waves "and now we're in the smooth water," and really saying that all this heavy lifting and now that this cloud architecture is here and we have this phenomenal compute and store technology, that he can kind of take a breath and really refresh a look out into the future as to, how do we build modern apps that have intelligence with basically unlimited resources, and how does that change the way that we go forward? I thought that was an interesting point of view, especially 'cause he has been at it for decades. >> You know, I think he was probably looking back to some of the arrows he had in his back from having done an in-memory database essentially before anyone else did for mission critical apps. I think when he's saying we're out of the choppy water and into the smooth water, because we now have the hardware that lets us run essentially these very resource-intensive databases and the apps on 'em, so that we no longer have to worry, are we overtaxing the infrastructure? Is it too expensive to outfit the hardware for a customer? So his, when he talks about rethinking the apps, he, like, "We don't have to have separate analytical systems "from the transaction systems. "And not only that. "We can simplify because we don't have to have" what he's calling aggregates. In other words, we don't have to, we don't, let's say, take an order and all the line items in an order, and then pre-aggregate all the orders. It's, like, we do that on the fly. And that simplifies things a lot. Then, not only that. Because we have all this memory, we can do, like, machine learning very inexpensively. >> A whole another chapter in his keynote was about modern software design. A lot of really interesting things, especially in the context of SAP, which was a big, monolithic application, hard to learn, hard to understand, hard to manage. I remember a start, that were were (mumbles) using is a core V to C commerce engine. And to add 16 colors of shirts times 10 neck sizes and 10 sleeve sizes was just a nightmare. You're not going to have some merchant that works at Macy's to put that into the system. But he talked about intelligent design, which is pretty interesting. We're hearing that more and more in a lot of work done over at Stanford, intelligent design. He's talking about no manuals. He's, like, "If I can't figure it out, "I need to understand." He talked about intelligent applications that continue to learn as the applications get more data. And specifically, the fact that machines don't get bored testing 100s or 1,000s or even millions of scenarios and grinding through those things to get the intelligence to start to learn about what's going on. So a very different kind of an application, both development, delivery approach, than what we think of historically as R3. >> Yeah, like the design thinking was, they have this new UI called Fiori. I mean, if you go back 10, 15 years, let's say, when they started, 15 years, when they started trying to put browser-based user interfaces on what was a client server system, they had 10s and 10s of 1,000s of forms-based screens. They had to convert them one by one to work in a browser. I think what he's saying now is, they can mock up these prototypes in a simple tool and they can essentially recreate the UI. It's not going to be the exact same forms, but they can recreate the UI to the entire system so that it's much more accessible. On the machine learning front, he was talking about one example was, like, matching up invoices that you going to have to pay. So that you going to train the system with all these invoices. It learns how to essentially do the OCR, recognize the text. And it gets smarter to the point where it can do 95% of it without-- >> Human interaction. >> Yeah, human inter-. >> You know, it's interesting, we were at Service Now last week, as well. And they are using AI to do relatively mundane tasks that people don't want to do, that machines are good at, things like categorization and assignment and things that are relatively straightforward processes but very time-consuming and again, if you can get to a 70% solution, 80% solution, 90% solution, to free people up to do other things on the stuff that's relatively routine. Right, if the invoice matches the anticipated bill in the system, pay it. Does somebody really have to look at it? So I thought that was really interesting. Something I want to dig in with you, he talked a lot about data, where the data lives, data gravity. He even said that he fought against data warehousing in the 90s and lost. A lot of real passionate conversation about where is data and how should apps interact with data, and he's really against this data replication and a data lake and moving this stuff all around, but having it kind of central. Want to just get your thoughts on that history. What do you think he means now, and where's that going? >> It's a great question. There's a lot of history behind that. Not everyone would remember, but there was an article in Fortune Magazine in the late 90s, where it described him getting up in a small conference of software CEOs, enterprise software CEOs, and he said basically, "We're going to grind you into dust, "because everything comes in our system integrated. "And if you leave it up to the customer "to try and stitch all this stuff together, "it's going to be a nightmare." And that was back when everyone was thinking, "One company can't do it all." And the reality was, that was the point in time where we really had given go past go, collect $200, to every best-of-breed little software vendor. It did prove out over the next decade that the fewer integration points there were, that it meant much lower cost of ownership for the customer. Not only lower cost of ownership, but better business process integration, 'cause you had the (mumbles) integration. I bring this up because, well, actually, I was there when he said it. (laughs) But I bring it up because he's essentially saying the same thing now, which is, "We'll put all the machine learning technology, "the building blocks, in SAP. "If you need any contextual data, "bring it into our system. "You don't want to take our data out "and put it into all these other machine learning programs "'cause there's security issues, "there's, again, the breakdown "in the business process integration." He did acknowledge that with data warehouses, if you have 100s of other sources, yes, you may need a external data warehouse. But I think that he's going to find with machine learning the greatest value with the data that you use in machine learning is when you're always adding richer and richer contextual data. That contextual data means you're getting it from other sources. I don't think he's going to win this battle in terms of keeping most of it within SAP. >> It kind of bring up this other intersection that he talked about. In now delivering SAP as a cloud application, he said, "Now we have to learn how to run our application, "not our customers," a very different way of looking at the world. The other thing that piggybacks off of what you just said is, we've seen this trend towards configuration, not customization. It used to be probably, back in the days, if you had the big SI's, they loved customization, 'cause it's a huge project, multi-years. I used to talk to one of our center partners, like, "How do you manage a multi-year SAP project "when most the people that started it "probably aren't even there the day you finish it?" But he had a specific quote I wanted to call out now, what you just said, is that he said, "Only our customers have the data, "the desire, and the domain knowledge "to make the most out of it." So it's a really interesting recognition that yes, you want customers to have this configuration option. But we keep hearing more and more, it's config, not-- >> Both: Customization. >> For upgrades and all these other things, which now when you go to a cloud-based application, that becomes significant. You don't want customizations, 'cause that's just complicates everything. >> You can't. I don't know if he said this today. I guess he must have said it today. But basically, when you're in the cloud, I forgot the terminology for the different instances. But when you're in, like, the SAP cloud, you can only configure. There's essentially a set of greater constraints on you. When you go to the other end of the spectrum, let's say you run it in your own data center, you can customize it. But when you're running it, essentially sharing the infrastructure, you're constrained. You're much more constrained. And they build it for that environment first. >> Right. But at the same time, they've got the data. Again, this has come up with other SAS companies that we've talked to, is hopefully, their out of the box business process covers 90% of the basics. I think there's been a realization on the business analyst side that we think we're special, but really most of the time, order to cash is order to cash. So if you got to tweak your own internal process to match best-of-breed, do it. You're much better off than trying to shape that computing system to fill your little corner cases. >> It's funny that you mention that, because what happened in the 90s was that by far the biggest influencers in the purchase decision and the overall lifecycle of the app were the big system integrators. They could typically collect $10 in implementation and change management fees for every dollar of license that went to the software vendors. So they had a huge incentive to tell the customer, "Well, you really should customize this "around your particular needs," because they made all the money off that. >> Right, right. Another huge theme. Again, it was such a great keynote. We watch a lot of keynotes, and I have a very high bar for what I consider a great keynote. This was a great keynote by a smart guy who knows his stuff and got history. But another theme was just really about AI. He talked a little bit, which I thought was great. Nobody talks about the fact that airplanes have been flying themselves for a very long time. So it is coming. I think he even said, maybe this is the age of AI. But there always have to be some humans involved. It's not a complete hand-over of control. But it is coming, and it's coming very, very quickly. >> I actually thought that they were a little further behind than might expected, considering that it's been years now that people in software have seen this coming. But they have in the dozens of applications or functions right now that are machine learning enabled. But if you look out at their roadmap, where they get to predictive accounting, customer behavior segmentation, profile completeness for in sales, solution recommenders, model training infrastructure for the base software foundation, they have a pretty rich roadmap. But I guess I would have thought it'd be a little farther along. But then Oracle isn't really any farther along. (mumbles) has done some work for HR. For whatever reason, I think that enterprise application vendors, I think they found this challenging for two reasons. On the technical side, machine learning is very different from the traditional analytics they did, which was really essentially OLAP, you know, business intelligence. This requires the data scientists and the white lab coats and instead of backward-looking business intelligence this forward-looking predictive analytics. The other thing is, I think you sell this stuff differently, which is, when it was business intelligence, you're basically selling reporting on what happened to department heads or function leaders, whereas when you're selling predictive capabilities, it's a little more transformative and you're not selling efficiency, which is what these applications have always, that's been their value preposition. You're selling transformational outcomes, which is a different sort of selling motion. >> It's funny, I heard a funny quote the other day. We used to look backwards for the sample of the data. (laughs thinly) Now we're in real time with-- >> Both: All the data. >> Very different situation-- >> And forward-looking. >> And forward-looking as well, with the predictive. >> That's a great quote, yeah. >> Again, he touched on so many things. But one of the things he brought up is Tesla. He actually said he has two Teslas, or he has a second Tesla. And there was question and answer afterwards really about the Tesla, not as the technology platform. And he poked fun at Germans. He said Germans have problems with simplicity. He referenced, I presume, a Mercedes or a Porsche, you know, the perfectly ergonomically placed buttons and switches. He goes, "You sit in a Tesla "and it just all comes up on the touch screen. "And if you want to do an update overnight, "they update your software, "and now you have the newer version of the car," versus the Mercedes, where it takes 'em three years to redesign the buttons and switches. I thought that was interesting. Then one of the Q&A people said, "But what about the buying experience? "If you (mumbles) ever bought a Tesla, "it's a very different experience "than buying a car." How does that really apply to selling software? It was pretty interesting. He said we're not there yet. But he has clearly grasped on, it's a new world and it's a new way to interact with the customers, kind of like his no manuals comment, that Tesla is defining a new way to buy a car, experience a car, upgrade a car. >> Operate it. >> At the same time, he got the crazy mode, fanatical mode, like, ludicrous mode, so that he could stop and tell the Porsche guys that you're falling behind further every single day. So I thought, really interesting, bringing that kind of consumer play and kind of a cutting edge automotive example into what was historically pretty stodgy enterprise software space. >> You know, it's funny, I listened when you're saying that. That was almost like the day one objective from SalesForce, which was, we want an enterprise app like Sebol, but we want an eBay-like, or Yahoo-like experience. And that did change the experience for buying it and for operating it. I think that was almost 20 years ago, where that was Marc Benioff's objective and he's saying it's easier to do that for CRM, but it's now time to bring that to ERP. >> The other thing he brought in which I was happy, being a Bay Area resident, is the Sharks. Because he's a part owner of San Josey Sharks, obviously it's SAP Center now, also known as the Shark Tank. It used to be owned by another technology company. But he made just a funny thing. "I like hockey, so I should like SAP," and he was talking about the analysis of how often the logos come up on the telecast et cetera. But the thing that struck me is, he said the analysis is actually now faster than the game. Pretty interesting way to think about this data in flow, in that the analysis coming out of the game that feeds Vegas, it feeds all these stat lines, it feeds fantasy, it feeds all this stuff, it feeds the advertising purchase and the ROI on my logo, is it in the corner, is it on the ice, is it in the middle, is actually moving faster than the hockey game. And hockey is a pretty fast game. Very different world in which we live, even on the mar-tech side. >> That was an example of one of the machine learning-type apps, because I think in their case, they were using, I think, Google image recognition technology to parse out essentially all the logos and see what type of impact your brand made relative to your purchase. >> I mean, I could go on and on. I've so many notes. Again, I live tweeted a lot of it, you know, he's just such a humble guy. He's a smart guy. He comes at it with a technology background, but he said we're a little bit slower than we'd like, he talked about some things taking longer than he thought they would. But he also now sees around the corner, that we are very quickly going to be in this age of infinite compute, and we are already in an age of, no one's reading manuals. Just seemed very kind of customer-centric, we're no longer the super-smart Germans that, "We'll do it our way or the highway, "and you will adapt your process to us," but really customer-centric point of view, design thinking, talked about sharing their roadmap as far out in advance as possible. I think he specifically, when he got questioned on design thinking, he's, like, "You know, the studies show that a collaborative effort "yields better results. "It's no longer, 'We're the smartest guy in the room "'and we're going to do it this way "'and you're going to adapt.'" So really progressive. >> And he talked about, with Concur, he said their UI is so easy that you really don't need a manual. In fact, if you do, you failed. And I think what he's trying to say is, we're going to take that iterative prototyping capability agile development and extend it to the rest of the ERP family. With their Fiori UI and the tools that build those screens that it'll make that possible. >> You've handled CAP. We don't spend enough investment on design in UI, 'cause it is such an important piece of the puzzle. But George, we're running out of time here. I want to give you the last word. You've been paying attention to SAP for a very long time. Hasso's terrific, but then Hasso gets off the stage and he said, "I don't run the company any more. "I only make recommendations." As you look at SAP, and Bill McDermott was yesterday, are they changing? Are they just stuck in an innovator's dilemma because they just make so much money on their historical business? Or are they really changing? What's your take as they develop, where they are now, and what do you see going forward for SAP? >> Well it's a really good question. I would say, I look at the value of the business processes that they are either augmenting or automating. I hesitate to say automate because, as he said, you still want the pilot in the cockpit. >> Jeff: In proximity to take control. >> Right. And he was, like, "Look, when we do the invoice matching, "it's not like we're going to get 100% right. "We're going to get it," I think he was saying, like, in the labs right now it's, like, 94% right. So we're going to make you more productive, we're not going to eliminate that job. But when you're doing invoice matching, that's not a super high value business process. If you're doing something where you're predicting churn and making a next best offer to a customer, that's a higher value process. Or if you have a multi-touchpoint commerce solution where you can track the customer, whether it's mobile, whether he's coming via chat, whether he's in the store, and you're able to see his history or her history and what's most appropriate given their context at any one moment, that's higher value. And then it's super high value to be able to take that back upstream towards, "Okay, here's where the inventory is. "I have some in this store. "I can't fulfill that clothing item directly from the store, "but I can fulfill it from this one," or, "I have it in another warehouse," when you have that level of awareness and integration, that's high value. >> Yeah, but I want to push back a little bit on you, George, 'cause I do think the invoice ma-, if he can automatically match 94% of the invoices, that is tremendous value. I just think it's so creative when you apply this machine learning to tasks that feel relatively mundane. But if you're speeding your cash flow along, if you get 94% of your invoices done one day faster and you're a multimillion dollar business, what is the direct dollar impact on the bottom line, like, immediately? It's huge. And then you can iterate and move into other processes. I think what's termed a low value transaction is actually a lot higher value than people give it credit. It's just like again, another one we hear about all the time, automation of password reset. Some of these service desks, password reset, I heard a stat, and one of them was 70% of the calls are password reset. So if you could automate password reset, sounds kind of silly and mundane, oh my gosh, it's like 70% of your calls. It's humongous. >> I hear what you're saying. Let me give you another counter example, which was, I think he brought this up. I don't know if it was today or when Michael Dell spoke, which was that Dell's revolution wasn't that they were more efficient than doing what Compaq did. It's that they had a different business model, which was specifically, they got paid before they even procured or assembled the components. >> Or paid for them, right? >> George: Yes, yes. >> They had no inventory carry costs. >> In fact, that meant their working capital, their working capital needs were negative. In fact, the bigger they got, the more money they collected before they had to spend it. That's a different business model. That wasn't automating the invoice matching. That was, we have such good systems that we don't even have to pay for them and then assemble the stuff until after the customer gave us their credit card. >> Right, right, right. >> I think those are the things that new types of applications can make possible. >> Right. Well, we see it time and time again. It's all about scale, it's all about finding inefficiencies, and there's a lot more inefficiencies around than people give credit, as Uber showed with a lot of cars that sit in driveways and Amazon and the public clouds are showing with a lot of inefficient, not used utilization and private data centers. So the themes go on and on, and they're pretty universal. So, exciting keynote. Any last comment before we sign off for today? >> I guess we want to take a close look at Oracle next and see how their roadmap looks like in terms of applying these new technologies, iOT, machine learning, block chain. Because all of these can remake how you build a business. >> All right, that's George Gilbert from Wikibon. I'm Jeff Frick from the CUBE. We are covering ongoing coverage of SAP SAPPHIRE 2017. Thanks for watching, we'll be back with more after this short break. Thanks. (lively music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, its theCUBE. Covering Dell EMC World 2017, brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Welcome back everyone, we are here live in Las Vegas for a wrap up on day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage with theCUBE coverage at Dell EMC World, our eighth year covering EMC World Now, first year covering Dell EMC World. It's part of the big story of Dell and EMC combining entities, forming Dell Technologies, all those brands. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. My co-hosts this week, Paul Gillin and Keith Townsend, CTO Advisor. Guys, great week, I thought I'd be wrecked at this point. But, I mean, a lot of energy here but we heard every story. We heard all the commentary, we heard the EMC people trotting in, about their customer references. We hear the executives on message. Bottom line, let's translate it for everybody. (laughing) All the messaging, pretty tight. >> Yes. >> All singing the same songs. My take away real quickly on messaging, they want to portray that this is all good. Everything's fine. No icebergs ahead. We are going to help customers try to move from speeds to feeds, a bigger message. Not getting there yet. Still speeds and feeds. 14 (mumbles), 14G, that's kind of the high level, thoughts? >> This company wants to dominate. I mean, what we heard again and again these last few days is number one, number one. They want to own the top market share in every market in which they play, and they have a broad array of products to do that. They have a huge mix of products, maybe too many products, but with some overlap, but that's okay, but they clearly are trying to blanket or carpet bomb those markets where they think they can win. Interestingly, there are some markets like big data, like software or cloud infrastructure where they are choosing not to be a big player, and that's okay too. It means they are focused. >> John: Keith, your thoughts. >> So, again, I agree with you, tight marketing. They wanted to get out this message. I think if the present analysts get together at the beginning, they emphasized 310 analysts, from analysts and press, from all over the world. They get out the message. They get these guys and gals in here to cover that message that Dell Technologies, Dell EMC, is the leader in this space. You know what? When big mergers like this happen, I can't think of one that happened well. They are usually rocky to begin with. We haven't seen those rocks at the beginning. We haven't see that at the show. It seems like the messaging has been consistent, the customers more or less get it, and that we can't detect the chinks in the armor, so I think they did a great job of getting that out there, and portraying the stress of the brand, and throughout the show. It was a great show for them. >> They have a good story. Their story better together, obviously that's the whole theme. My impression is, in weaving through all the messaging, is generally, authentically the people are pretty happy with it. I think EMC people have been trying to break out of this, we're a storage company, you know, and I won't say they had a little bit of VMware envy, but VM World events were always different than the EMC World, so those culture clashes weren't necessarily too divergent, but different. You had storage guys, and you had VMware developers, right, so I think EMC was always trying to break out and be bigger, and just couldn't get there. Dell wanted to be more enterprise, right, so I think the two together actually is better, in my opinion. Now will it work? I still think your post is still open. They merged for the right reasons, but look it, they're not done. They got a boat-load of work to do. >> I think they're aware, to Keith's point, they are aware that history is against them, that mega mergers don't work, never have worked in this industry, and so that creates a lot of pressure to make this one work, and the good thing about that for both companies is that they're aware of what went wrong in the past. I mean, we had Howard Elias on this show the first day. Howard Elias went through two of the worst tech mega mergers in history with Compaq Digital and HP Compaq, knows where a lot of those landmines are, so they seemed hyper aware of getting everyone on message, getting everyone talking positively about synergy, and as you said John, the language was consistent from the start. >> Alright, I want to ask you guys a pointed question on that point cause it kind of brings out the next question. Management team, do they have the chops, because, to your point, history's against them, okay? We sat down with Michael Dell, founder, lead entrepreneur, still at the helm. He's a billionaire. They're private, so no shot clock on the public markets. Marius Haas, he's a pro. Howard Elias, a pro. Goulden, he does his thing. On and on and on. I think they got a pretty deep bench. I mean, your thoughts guys? >> So, let's think about that. How many bad mergers has EMC gone through? Data domain >> Paul: Home run. >> Incredible. >> Paul: Home run. >> Home run. >> Paul: DSSD. >> DSSD, well, not so much, but that wasn't really that big of a merger. >> They kind of cleaned that up pretty quickly. >> Yeah, they did, what doesn't work they get it out quick, so great management team understands the complexities of mergers. VMware merger, or acquisition, probably one of the best in the history of tech, so the management team has the chops to understand where the value is added, extract that value, and expand it. >> That's a great point. And they know when to leave stuff alone too. >> John: Yeah, engineering lead but they're also, because we heard Jeff Boudreau on talking about the storage challenges. He's like, we know what to do, we took the lumps trying to, late to the game on Flash, we're not going to be late to the game in these other areas, and he is very hyper focused. But the other thing that we didn't talk about is that EMC has just been an impeccably, credible sales organization. They know how to sell, they know how to motivate sales people. They know how to tell the tell the enterprise sales motion, which is the biggest challenge in today's industry. Every company I talked to, startup to growing IPO is we need better enterprise sales. Look at Google. Look what they're doing in the cloud. They are struggling because they have great tech and horrid sales people. They are hiring young people doing phone work. Enterprise sales is a tricky game. >> Arguably the best enterprise sales force on the planet was EMC. I mean, these are the guys who would get on a plane at midnight, would charter a plane at midnight, to get to the customer's site to fix a problem, and no other company does it like that, and Dell has a lot to learn from that. If Dell can really take that knowledge and that culture and absorb it into their own enterprise sales force, they are going to have huge opportunity with their server division. >> I want to take a minute just to thank our sponsors for their awesome CUBE coverage. You guys did great. Dell EMC, Toshiba, Virtustream, Cisco, Dato, Nutanix, Druva, and VMware. Thanks to your support, we had two CUBEs covering VM World, 20 plus videos a day, for 3 straight days. All that's on youtube.com/siliconangle. Of course, siliconangle.com for all the journalism and reporting. Wikibon.com for all the great research, and also a shoutout to Keith at @CTOAdvisor. Check him out on Twitter, always part of the conversation, super influential. Guys, great job this week. Just high level marks. My take away? Hyper converge, big time focus on these guys. VMware is the glue, Hybrid Cloud, and they're defensively using Pivotal to hold the line on Amazon, so thoughts on that point? I see you rolling your eyes. >> I just got out with James Watters, the SVP within that business unit. Pivotal is a key part of this. You know Michael has stressed on theCUBE, on Twitter, how important Pivotal is to their long term success. One of Dell's challenges, Dell EMC's, and this is not just Dell EMC, it's infrastructure companies throughout the landscape, is getting out of that conversation with their VP of infrastructure, getting into the offices of the CIOs, COs, CMO, and having these business conversations, and it's going to take a Pivotal type of solution to get that done. I thought Michael made a very great point that that white glove services, that's basically their service organization, is basically the older EMC services organization that's used to getting on a flight, solving the problem. Whatever the original statement at work was, they are willing to tear that up, and get down, get dirty, and get that done. They need to translate that >> The question for you then is this, without Pivotal, they have no play for the app developers? >> Keith: None. >> Amazon would mop that up and they'd have no positions, so I would say it is certainly a placeholder, a good one, I'm not going to deny that. The question is how big is that market for them. Can they get there, can they hold the line on Pivotal and bring in some resources and cavalry to keep that going, thoughts? >> This is where VMware comes into play. VMware has the relationship with the software layer at least, and they have a great story to tell. They need to get in front of the right people and tell that story, that CrossCloud story of being able to develop using CF and then move that to any cloud using NSX. Great story, but John, to your point, they have to get into the right rooms and have the right conversations, >> Yeah. >> Keith: That's a tough thing to do. >> I also got to give them some time. I mean, this merger happened eight months ago. I think it's pretty remarkable what they have pulled off here in such a short time, and to think about the developers are probably not their first priority right now. >> Alright, so we are going to do the metadata segment of our wrap up, which I just made up since it's such a good name, metadata, in the spirit of surveillance. What metadata can you pull out of your interviews, guys, that's a tea leaf that we could read and just nuance points, I'll start. Pat Gelsinger talked about Pivotal sharing, in between the conversations kind of weaved in, yeah, we had to spin out Pivotal, but I could almost see it in his eyes, he didn't say it specifically, but he's like, we shouldn't have sold it, right? And they had to because he said he had to work on the foundational stuff, get NSX done, get that right, but you can almost see that now as, I'd like to bring that back in, although a separate company. To me, I find that a very interesting data point, that that actually makes a lot of sense to your point about VMware. That might be an interesting combination. Why take Pivotal public, roll it into VMware. >> Yeah, I think that is going to be a interesting space to watch over the next few months. VMware and Pivotal have started to once again come back together with solutions. This NSX, CrossCloud talk makes it very compelling. It's hard to predict Dell EMC being relevant long term. They understand the value short term. They have a short rope to take advantage of this cross selling between the Dell and EMC customer. They can grow this business, get revenue short term, but there will be a cliff where they need to make that transition. Cisco is trying to make that transition into a services company, a software company, and it's hard to turn down one knob and turn the other one up. We'll see if Pat, Michael Dell, and the team have the chops to get it done. >> Cisco has to endure the public markets while they are doing that, which is one advantage Dell has. >> Data point that you can extract that you take away from this? >> Synergy, synergy. I mean when two companies this big come together, you're looking at a lot of product line overlap. I came out of this, though, thinking that there really isn't that much product line overlap. You've got a company that's strong in the mid market, with the small companies, a company that's strong in the enterprise, storage, servers, not a lot of overlap there. The big question for me, so I think the synergy question is this merger makes sense from that perspective, and the big question is software, what are they going to do with those software assets, and to your point, the future is going to be, software defined everything, and that's not a story they're telling yet. >> Keith, extracted insight that you observed that was notable that you kind of picked out of the pile of the interviews. Anything notable to you? Something obscure that made you go, wow I didn't know that, oh that's a good piece of the puzzle to put together. >> You know what, just the scale of, you look at the merger, 57 billion dollars, and on paper you are like, okay that's interesting, but a lot of the numbers coming out, you know, we talked to the senior VP of marketing and he says, you know, my guys are making bank, actually that's to paraphrase him. You said that John, that they are making bank, and one of the things that I worried about was the culture, the sales culture between Dell and EMC. Dell sales culture, very web based, very, you know I had a Dell rep and there was not an awful lot of value add, EMC >> Paul: Value add. >> The value add, and those guys earned their money, and bringing those two together and making sure that customers don't miss a beat and still get that EMC value, but Dell is able to maintain that same cost structure, I thought that was a really complicated thing to do. It seems like they are executing really well on that, and I thought from a customer's perspective, you want your supplier to make money and you want it to not be too disruptive, but you know, you want to see some value. >> Great point, that was one of highlights of my take aways, Marius Haas' interview around sales and comp and structure. They are used to a lot of bank, those sales guys, and now it's like, hey we're going to give you a haircut, what? I was about to make a million dollars on commissions this year. >> This merger will not work unless the sales organization is in sync. >> Other notables for me, just that jumped out at me, that kind of made me go, that amplifies a point, that's memorable is Michael Dell's interview hits home the point of entrepreneur founder, lead guy, and there's only three left in the industry, Ellison, Dell, and Bezos, in my mind that are billionaires that are actively, not mailing it in, they are actively driving their business, have a great ethos and culture that is creating durability. I find that the key point for me, that was a moment. I think he does sell Pivotal a little too much, which gives me a little red flag, like hmm, why is he pushing Pivotal so much, what is he hiding, but that's a different story. Michael Dell, founder. Gelsinger shared some personal commentary around his personal life. 2016 was the hardest year of his life. >> Keith: That was a mean story. >> Personal and business. Almost got fired. Remember last year? >> Yeah. >> Pat Gelsinger, you're fired. So, he had a tough year, now he's kicking ass, taking names, evaluation's on the rise. That jumped out at me. And finally, the little nuance in this merger is the alliance opportunity. Dell had the Intel, wintel, Microsoft relationships from day one, that history, Intel was on stage. EMC's had it, but not at the deep level that Dell did. So I see the alliance teams really grooving here, so that's going to impact channel marketing, SIs. I think you are going to see a massive power base, to your scale point, around alliances in the industry, the ecosystem. It's either going to blow up big or blow up bad. Either way its high octane power, Intel. >> Keith: It is a big bet. >> It's a big bet. Those are my points. Anything that jumped out at you, final thoughts, interviews? >> Jeff Townsend threw off an interesting statistic, 70% of the traffic on the internet will be video by 2020. I never heard that one before, but that has some pretty interesting implications for how infrastructure has to manage it. >> Yeah, great for our business. We're doing video right now. Keith, anything that jumped out at you, anything else? >> The scale of this show compared to, I've been at Dell World, I've been to EMC World. The energy is different here. I can say that for sure, from the EMC Worlds and the Dell Worlds that I've been at. Customers, I think, are wide eyed. I've been to plenty of VM World's. It doesn't quite have the flavor of a VM World, but I think customers are starting to understand the scale of Dell EMC, the entire portfolio. You walk the show floor, you're like, wow I didn't know >> John: The relevance has increased. >> Just little bits of this larger Dell technologies that customers are picking up on, that they're keying on that there's value there. >> The 800 pound gorilla, the very relevant impact, people are taking notice. >> If you are a one product Dell customer or a one product EMC customer and you are coming to the show for the first time, I think you're a little bit wowed. >> Alright, guys, great job. Keith, great to have you host theCUBE. Great job, as always. Really appreciate you bringing the commentary to theCUBE. Great stuff. >> Always great being here. >> Paul, great editorial, great insight, great questions. Great to work with you guys. Great to the team. Thanks to our sponsors. Go to siliconangle.com, wikibon.com, and go to youtube.com/siliconeangle and check out all the videos and the playlists, more coverage, great. Thanks for watching our special coverage of Dell EMC World 2017. See you next time.

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're live here, day three of three days of coverage of theCUBE at Dell EMC World 2017. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Paul Gillin and special guest on our day-three opening, Peter Burris, head of research of SiliconANGLE Media, general manager of wikibon.com research. Guys, good to see you on day three. We're goin' strong. I mean, I think I feel great, a lot of activity. So many story lines to talk about. Obviously the big one is the combination, not merger, I slipped yesterday, or acquisition, the combination of equals, Dell, EMC. Some will question did EMC acquire Dell or Dell acquire EMC? Certainly Michael Dell's still captain of the ship. But that's the top story. But a lot of product line conversations. Not a lot of overlap. Peter, you've been at all the analyst sessions. We had David Furrier on yesterday, teasing it up, but I'd like to get you, your perspective and reaction to your thoughts as you look at the giants in the industry. Michael Dell bought EMC for a record 60 billion plus. You've been around the block. You've seen many waves. You've analyzed many generations of the computer industry. What does this actually mean. Where are they, what's your thoughts and reaction? >> So John, I'll give you three different story lines here, right? The meta-picture, the good, and the what the hell's goin' on kind of picture. The first one, the meta-picture is, and SiliconANGLE said this, it was a really well written article, you might have even written it Paul, that there has never really been a successful mega-merger in the tech industry. And historically I think that's because, well here's the bottom line. This one may actually work. And it may actually work nicely. And the reason is is that most of the other mergers or combinations were companies with problems and companies that didn't have problems. Or companies with problems and companies with problems. And if you take a look at Dell and EMC, neither of them had problems. They weren't buying each other's problems. It was a nice combination and complimentary in that EMC had a great consumer business, great channel business, and had a pretty strong financial position. And EMC had a great enterprise business, great, you know-- >> Sales organizations. >> Great sales organization. And they had, they were strong in where the industry's going around how do you handle data and how do you handle storage. So it's got, what we're seeing here is everybody singing out of the same hymnal. I'm not seeing any tension. And that is an indication that this one may actually go well. I think it's a very, very good early sign. >> Paul, you and I were talking on the day one open and also, we kind of hit it a little bit yesterday with David Furrier, talking about this mega-merger. Compare and contrast that to HBE, which is been kind of, being de-positioned by some of the Dell executives. They don't actually call 'em out by name, but HP Enterprise is taking a different approach. They're taking a, you know, smaller is better approach. Obviously, Michael Dell has a complete different philosophy. We're still going to analyze that as well. We've got HPE Discover coming up as well. Thoughts on the compare and contrast, guys, reaction to the strategies of HPE, smaller, faster, as they say. Or Dell, bigger, more powerful. >> I think both are viable strategies. It's just a matter of if they can pull it off. I mean, HP, you talk about bad mergers, Peter, I mean you think of HP Compact, HP Autonomy, this is a company that has had a terrible track record of big mergers. Although they've had some successful ones certainly. >> By the Meg Whitman inherited those. >> Yes. >> Prior to Meg Whitman coming on board. >> Oh she was a board member for some of them. >> Okay, so she was at the table. Now, we don't know, okay but your thoughts, continue. >> But Dell, clearly going the other direction. They, I mean, they're building sort of an IBM-like model, the way IBM was in the '80s when it dominated every market that it played in. And it played at even more markets than Dell does now. So I think that the model makes sense. I think Peter's absolutely right, I'm not sensing any tension at this conference. There seems to be, the most important thing is there seems to be a lot of communication going on. The executives are spending a lot of time with each other and they're talking a lot to the people. And when you look back, and I live, and Peter, you remember the DEC, you know, the fiasco with DEC being purchased by Compaq. That was clearly a takeover. And that was Compaq came in, took over the company and didn't tell anybody anything. And the DEC people were living in the dark and it was clear that they had no value to the acquiring company. That, clearly, they're not making those mistakes here. >> For the younger, for the younger audience, DEC is Digital Equipment Corporation which was a behemoth winner in the micro, mini-computer era and then now defunct company. >> Except the one, one thing I'd add to that, Paul, is that, and this is why, it's why this first sign is so important. That they are seem to be, that executives here seem to be collaborating and working together. DEC had been one of those mini-computer companies dominated by an OEM business, which means you had a common set of components and then everybody was competing for customers with how you put those components together. So there was, it was a, it was a maelstrom of internal competition at DEC. When Compaq got ahold of DEC, that DEC sense of internal competition took over Compaq. And then when Compaq, when HP acquired Compaq, that maelstrom and internal competition took over HP. >> They didn't know what they were getting into. >> We used to call it the red-blue wars and it was ugly. And that's not happening here. That's a first sign. >> Yeah, I would agree Peter. I want to get your thoughts to all that. I would agree that this is, I've been tryin' to sniff out where the wind's blowin' on this for a year and to my knowledge, and my insight and sources, it's not going bad at all. It's going great. The numbers are performing, they're winning some deals, but let's compare to HP because I asked Mark Heard at their Oracle media event last week, cause they were touting number one in every market. So I said, "Well, there's a digital transformation "going on, a whole new way to do business "for the next 33 years, "not looking back at the past 33 years." Which metrics are you using? Everyone's claiming to be number one at something. So, the question is, maybe HP does have it right. Maybe their strategy will work. What are the, what are going to be those metrics for this next generation? If cloud becomes the connective tissue to data, value of data, and that apps are going to be very agile. Maybe this decentralized approach from HP might be a better strategy for the growth. Thoughts. >> Well, look, let's, so let's, I want to get back to the, what's good about what we're seeing and some other things that probably need to be worked on, but, but here's what I'd say, John. And this is what Wikibon believes. That customers is always going to be the most important metric. So, the first metric is, is HP gaining customers? Is HP losing customers? Is Dell gaining customers? Or is Dell losing customers? That's the number one most important metric. Always will be as far as I'm concerned. But the second one is, and this, and I'll pre-say something I'm going to talk about in a little bit. The second one is, I'll call it data under management. If we think about, if we think about this notion of data as an asset, data as a source of value, how much does HP, through it's customers, how much data does, does HP have under management? How much data does Dell/EMC have under management? And I think that's going to be an important way of thinking about the intensity of the relationships, which relationships are going to steer towards which types of environments. Is it going to be a procurement relationship or a real strategic relationship? By procurement, I mean, it's fundamentally focused on driving cost out of the deal. Strategic, I mean it's fundamentally focused by jointly creating value. So this notion of data under management, to me, is going to be something we're going to be talking about in five years. >> So, Bill Schmarzo, friend of both of ours, was, came by the set before we came on here and he's the dean of big data as coined by theCUBE but now he's takin' on it his own, like he's actually a dean now teaching big data. We are talking about some of the research that you're doing and taking a stand on, it's important, I want to put a plug in for the Wikibon research team that you're leading, is the business value of data. >> Peter: Oh absolutely. >> And that you're looking at data as a valuation mechanism, not an accounting, compliance thing. And this is something, I think, is way ahead of the curve. So props to you guys for puttin' the stake in the ground. To your point, the new metric might just be the valuation of how they use data, whether that's customer data, product services data, application development concepts to reconfiguring how they do business. >> And it's the reconfigure that's the smart, that's the absolutely right word. So, from our perspective John, the difference between a business and a digital business is a business uses data one way, a digital business uses data another way. A business uses data as an, something to just handle coordination and administration. >> Paul: Bookkeeping. >> Yeah, exactly. A digital business uses data as a strategic asset to differentiate how to engage to markets. That's where the industry's going, and that's what we want to talk about. >> And by the way, in previous business constructs or business books people have, might have read over the years certainly, you know, the Peter Druckers and so on, management consultants, never actually factored data into the value chains of-- >> Oh they did, they did, they did. They just didn't actually, so Drucker, for example did. >> John: Digital data? >> Oh, he talked about information and the role that information played. >> John: I stand corrected. >> Herbert Simon talked about this kind of stuff 50 years. Unfortunately it all got lost when we went through things like, jeez, you know, there was a very famous economist who said in the late 80s, "Information technology "shows up everywhere but in the productivity numbers." So, you old guys would-- >> I remember that, I remember that quote. >> So, the idea ultimately is we now have to get very discrete and very specific about what that means. And that's a challenge. But let's come back to, let's come back to at least what we think is really working here, if I may. >> John: Absolutely, go ahead. >> So the first thing is, at a more tactical level, number one is the Hyperconvert story is exciting. And it's starting to come together. And again, I'm not, we're not seeing tension between the folks that are selling servers and the folks that are doing Hyperconversion. Both are introducing new technology that are going to create new opportunities for customers, and they're not as, as, as your good friend Michael Dell said, a couple times over the past year, here in theCUBE, "We are not going to "artificially constrain any of our businesses." And, as Amazon said at re:Invent, "If you're going to do it at scale, "eventually you're going to put in hardware." And he wants to demonstrate that all this great software stuff that's happening, that ultimately Dell's going to be the leader at designing these new capabilities into the hardware and he wants to show how that's going to show up in all his product lines. >> That's a great point. I think the most interesting dynamic I've been seeing out of the interviews we've been doing the last two days is that the problem Dell has to struggle with now, and it'll be interesting to watch how they, how they figure this out, is all of their, used to be called the Federation, now they're called the Strategic Business Alliances I think. The, you know, the VMwares, the RSAs, the Pivotals, how are they going to make sense of those in the context of this bigger whole? On the one hand, they've got some competing priorities here. Dell has a very strong relationship with Microsoft, VMware is a competitor to Microsoft. So you got to figure out how to get those, how to make sense of those different alliances. Pivotal is potentially a competitor to Microsoft. >> Potentially? >> Well, Microsoft is in the pass business, yeah. >> No, it is yeah, it's going to compete. >> So you've got a, you've got some paradoxes here in the businesses that Dell has acquired. They really still, I sense they still haven't made sense of what they're going to do with them. >> Yeah, great point. I mean, first of all, you guys are pros and we have a historical view here of the collective intelligence of all of us old guys here. We've seen a lot of ways. But Rob Hof wrote an article on SiliconANGLE, our Editor-in-Chief Rob Hof, who's also an industry veteran and journalist himself. After the Oracle media event, and the headline reads, "In Oracle's Cloud Pitch to Enterprises, "an Echo of a Bygone Tech Era." And his point with this story is, I want to get your reaction to this, cause I think we're seeing a trend here, you guys are teasing out here. We're kind of going back down to the old tech days. You were the Editor-in-Chief of Computerworld back in the day with the mainframe world and then the minis. Seeing Marius Haas on here using words like "Single pain of glass." "One throat to choke." "End to end." We're almost seeing the bygone era coming back again where maybe they might have the rights to it. Certainly Oracle saying, "Hey, you know, "reorganize our sales force." So the question. Is the cloud the de-centralized mainframe. Is it now the new centralized, with edge, intelligent edge, is that, are we going back to the old ways, in a way, not fully but, unifying the sales forces. >> So, the computing industry-- >> Thoughts. >> Has been been on an inexorable march to greater utilization of public infrastructure. What an economist would say is we've always found ways to reduce asset specificities. I buy something, and I apply it to one purpose. I can't apply it to another purpose. Software changes that. Commodity pricing and hardware changes that. Public infrastructure changes that. So we're going to continue to see that inexorable march to the use of public infrastructure or somethin' that looks like public infrastructure. And that's going to continue. And the industry's always been very, very good at that. That does not mean, however, that we're going to have one supplier. So what we're seeing is a lot of FUD right now. Amazon FUD, Dell FUD, Oracle FUD. There is a real tension in the model and the real tension is, more than likely, the future is going to be composites of services operating on multiple different cloud-like instances, including on premise. And who's going to offer the best end-to-end control plane? >> Paul, I want to get your thoughts. Cause you remember goin' back to the days, IBM had SNA network stack, DEC had DECnet, we had, they had propietary stacks. Cloud, Azure stack, this stack, that. Are we seeing this again? Your thoughts. >> Well I think Peter's absolutely right but the variable, and you're right, we are seeing this again. We're seeing a trend of return to simplicity. Because what IT organizations have been wrestling with for the last 20 years is everything is just getting more complex. There's more vendors, there's more piece parts, and they've got to fit them all together, and it sucks. And so they want someone to simplify this. Now, cloud vendors simplify it on one level. But software-defined, on another level. We've been talking here about software defined storage, about software-defined networking, massive virtualization. And that's on an open source or at least an open API-based model. Which I think is the twist here. Are we going back to the days of IBM? Yeah. But IBM, But the IBM may actually be software-defined. >> Or five different companies that look like IBM. >> I know what you're saying Paul, and I'm not going to disagree with you. But here's the opposite-- >> But you disagree with him. >> No, no, but no I'm not going to, I'm going to put a slightly different spin on it. It used to be that the most valuable asset in an IT organization was the mainframe. And the entire organization was organized and the interactions with the business were organized and put in place to handle the value of that mainframe. We are not going back to a day where the IT organization, the way business uses IT is organized around the mainframe as an asset. Or even around the provision of infrastructure as an asset. We are going to start seeing organization and frameworks that are fundamentally built around this idea of data as an asset. And that is going to be a lot more complex with a lot more buyers and a lot more opportunities for differentiation creating value. So we will see more complexity in IT at the software and the use case level, less complexity at the infrastructure levels. >> Which is why machine learning and automation gets a lot of hype, but to Paul, I'm going to get your point and tie Peter's point together and introduce Jeff Bezos' comment last week on NDC. He mentioned that most things take 10 years to bake out in terms of getting things right. Ten year kind of horizon. Kind of an order of magnitude. But he says, "All these startups say they have "disruptive technology, it's not their technology that's "disruptive, it's what's the customer is disrupted." So we're talkin' about customers being disrupted. It's not some company having disruptive technologies. >> And disrupting. >> So are we saying that customers are being disrupted by reconfiguring their businesses, hence with the mainframe disrupted, a new way to do things, we're seeing clouded-data as a new way to do things. So, that's causing some reconfiguration and disruption, allows them to say, "Shit, just when I thought it was simple "it got more complex." >> But the disruptive element is the data as Peter says. >> I mean the machines are becoming, the machines are already a commodity. The, with open source, the platforms are a commodity. What's disruptive is how you use the data in different ways. And to your point Peter, yes, it's going to be a much more complex world. >> Peter: Much more. >> Because there's a lot more data and there's a lot more things we can do with data. >> And data can, that's exactly right. We can do so much more with data. So again, let's go back to the fundamental metric that at least I suggested. Who gets more customers? There are going to be more buyers of this stuff in five years than there are today. More buyers in the sense that within an organization, there's going to be more people involved in the decision and there's going to be more businesses. Because if this stuff actually works, the transaction costs are going to go down and you can then organize your businesses, institutionalize how you do work differently so you can have more partnerships. All that means that fundamentally, what we're talkin' about here is going to lead to greater complexity in business, greater opportunity therefore, but what I've always said, and I don't know if you've heard this Paul, but I know you have John, and I've said it on theCUBE. That the fundamental demarcation is that the first 50 years of this industry featured known process, unknown technology. And what do you we focus on? The technology. What's the next 50 years? Unknown process, known technology. What are we going to focus on? How to build that software, how to handle those data assets. What are we going to focus less attention on? The technology. What does everybody want to talk about at this show? >> The technology. >> Technology. That's a disconnect. So going to one of the things that we now have to think about from a DELL/EMC standpoint is where's the story about how Dell is going to appreciate the value of your data assets over time. We need more of that. >> And let me point out, you now, you didn't mention IBM but one company that is doing that well right now, they aren't getting the business benefit for it yet, is IBM. Where they are really taking, they are not technology, I mean they don't talk about power aid anymore. They talk about Watson, they talk about what you can do with analytics, they talk about a smarter planet. They haven't been able to turn this into a successful business yet but they're doing, I think, exactly what you're talking about. >> Well the product, they have some product challenges. I mean, so let's get back down to the customer thing. I like that angle. You got to have the customer, you got to have the products that customers will be buying. That's the value, exchange that customers will value and then hence by your service or product. Andy Jassy and Pat Gelsinger, when they did the Amazon deal, VMware. Jassy, Andy Jassy CEO of AWS said to me, "We are customer focused." So I believe that you're right on this 100%. Whoever can get the customers. And this is not about who's the better stack, if the customers like it, they're going to buy it. >> And very importantly, John, they are going to invest in it to make it valuable in their business. And that's what you want. You want to see your customers become a centerpiece of value-creation in your ecosystem. >> And I think Amazon Web Services proves that the dark horse could come out of nowhere and be the behemoth that they are because they served the customers. >> So that's the second thing that I'm missing at this show. And I know, I think I know why, is where is the additional details, even a little bit more, about VMware and AWS. Now, I know that they're going to wait for the VMware World, that's the story. >> They showed a little preview in the keynote, it's still baking out. >> Yeah, but it would be nice to have a little bit more. >> That's one of those tough relationships they need to manage, right? >> Yeah, exactly right. >> I mean VMware and IBM also have an alliance. They are allied with their foes now through the acquisition. The point about, about the value of data, you know, I think Amazon has done a good job of building platforms that are very flexible for customers to use but they abstract a lot of the underlying complexity. >> Alright, so with the data, I want to just double-down on that for a second and get your reaction, thoughts on, obviously, one of the themes here is IOT and we heard Michael Dell saying it's going to be centralized, pushed out to the edge, you got in research from Wikibon intellegent edge. You and David Floy and the rest of the team doing some real amazing work at Wikibon.com. Check it out, subscription required. What's the edge strategy? What does that actually mean for IT practitioners out there? It's, certainly we heard from Bask Iyer, who's the CIO of Dell said, "Most CIOs are conservative "and don't usually jump on these waves." They missed mobile, they missed some other waves. His mandate was, CIOs, don't miss the IOT wave. So what is the IOT, this edge of the network thing mean for a CIO. >> Well, the first thing is in hardcore circumstances, many CIOs aren't even involved in the edge. So if you take a look, if you go into where a lot of the edged domains are really crucial, you see a plant manager that's more responsible for what's going on in the edge than the CIO. The CIO is handling the corporate systems. The plant manager is handling what's actually happening at the edge. The operational technology stuff. So the first thing is we're going to see a slow circling of the IT and OT organizations about who's going to win-- >> OT meaning Operational Technology. >> Operational Technology. Just as we saw a slow circling back in the 1990s when TCPIP came in, and blew away DEC and blew away everybody, and started blowing away the TELECOM divisions, or TELECOM's functions within side large enterprises. >> So you think that IOT is going to be as disruptive as TCPIP was in standardizing in the network layer. >> Oh absolutely, absolutely. It's going to be, it's going to have an enormous impact because there's so many new sources. The data is going to have, how to think about it, and that was the second point I was going to make, John, is we do not currently have architectural standards in place for thinking about how this stuff is going to come together. And it's something that David Furrier and I and the Wikibon team are working on and I hope to come up with, I hope to come out with some research, actually probably next month, on what we call automation zones or data zones or probably edge zones. Which is, how do, just we think about security zones today, how do we think about edge zones. Where the edge zone is defined by a moment, an automation moment, cannot have data outside of that zone. And that needs to become an architectural principle where OT and IT can work together and say, "What data has to be in that zone? "I'll make sure my data gets there, "you make sure you're data gets there. "We'll figure out how control happens, "and that's how we drive this thing forward." >> Well, just to give you a prop here on theCUBE here is, Wikibon was right about Flash, they were right about Hyperconvergence and convergent infrastructure. Big bets early on that were kind of like, people were like, "What?" And certainly Vstand, ServiceStand although some people will disagree with this. >> They were right about the edge. >> Now you're right about, I think you're right on, way right on the edge and you're way right on value of data. >> Yeah. >> I think those are two stands that you're taking that will be-- >> And let's give great props to David Furrier who was a catalyst for thinking many of these things through. >> Alright Paul, final word from you. Obviously, you know, as a veteran, you've covered it all. Okay, what's your take? I mean, what's the, how's the wind blowing, what's your instinct tell you of what's happening. >> I think it's generally good, but it's hard to tell from conferences. As you know John, the reason most conferences are so boring is that there's no tension, there's no conflict. It's all good, it's all everybody's happy and everybody's doin' a great job. That's the very same thing that we're seeing here. >> Rah rah, Kool-aid injection. >> One thing I can't help notice is on the keynote, if you look at the keynote agenda for the three days, there's not a single customer on the, on the keynote agenda. Which I think is a problem. Or I don't think that says good things about where Dell is really focusing it's message right now. You want to have, at most big company conferences, there's lots and lots of customers who come up on stage. I think Dell is still thinking about, I mean it's a technology-focused company. They're thinking about technology integration right now. >> So speeds and feeds. >> Yeah, you hear a lot of speeds and feeds. >> Everybody wants to be the most important thing in the enterprise, and they still want hardware to be the most important thing. >> Well, I think I mean, I would agree with you 100%, but I just think, just, in this acquisition, I mean, sorry, merger of equals, they have a lot of herding cats going on right now. There's a lot of herding of portfolio and not a lot of overlap but I can see them kind of making room on the stage for that. But I do agree, I mean, customers do tell the best story. >> And in the long run, that's, as Peter said, that is what is going to make the difference. Are the customers happy? >> Guys, amazing exchange. Thanks so much, Peter, for comin' out and takin' some time out of your busy schedule to come on theCUBE and share your insight. The daily on-cue Paul, as always, we're havin' another three days. Third day of our three days of coverage here on theCUBE. Great commentary, great analysis, more live coverage from day three of Dell/EMC World 2017. We'll be right back, stay with us, we'll be right back after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live, this is the Cube coverage of Dell EMC World 2017. I got to get used to that, I'm used to saying EMC World, but this is Dell EMC World, the first year officially as the Dell EMC World, a continuation of our eight years of live coverage, proud coverage with the cube and I'm joined with Paul Gillan, my co-host this week for three wall-to-wall coverage days and our next guest has been on every year that Cube has been in existence, Howard Elias is the president of Dell Services and IT, a good friend of the Cube and senior executive at Dell Technologies and Dell EMC. Howard, great to see you. >> Hey, great to be back. >> You've seen every corner of EMC over the years, you have so much experience and you've been really the captain in holding the wheel on the transaction at close eight months ago, in September of the Dell Technologies, now Dell EMC company, really smooth considering what could've gone wrong, you kind of stayed away from all the icebergs, but yet it feels good. I haven't heard any real horror stories at all, I heard all positive things, the story is great, I just tweeted pretty much my take on the story. Win, consolidate to pre-existing traditional IT, and then have a growth strategy around cloud-native, convert infrastructure, good story. Okay, how is it going? >> You know what, and thank you for that. First of all, great to be with both of you and it's just going great. And I do want to make sure I co-captain the integration together with my great friend and colleague, Rory Read. But really we had the great benefit of Joe and Michael kind of setting the stage. We've talked before on the Cube about the industrial logic of the deal, but frankly, the team has come together in a phenomenal way. We are aligned, we are operating as one company. You've heard Michael and David both talk about better together today, we'll hear more about that from Jeff and Pat and others over the next couple of days. And look, for all of the things that could've gone wrong in a very large combination like this, they went right instead. And the best proof of that is our customers. Our customers are buying more from us, the conversations are richer, they are more strategic, they are more in-depth and they're rooting for us and we're rooting for them. >> Dave and I would sometimes be critical of the EMC, but you guys never really had a bad strategy, you never really stayed out, you never went outside your swim lane with respect to services and what you do. Pure storage, get the arrays, get the software to find a data-center in there, but now with the acquisition, I got to ask, the question is, the portfolio of deliverables that you guys now have and Michael kind of strutting on stage, kind of proud of his new families, he says, the brotherhood or however he puts it, you've got a lot more at your disposal, more in your bag if you will, for services. Especially VMware and NSX doing extremely well. We're going to have Pat as guest here tomorrow. Not a lot of pressure yet to have that cloud story completely baked, multi-cloud is a nice placeholder, but you have a lot more. Talk about where that new growth is coming from in the services. >> Well, specifically on cloud I would say, by the way, and we talk about this a lot, cloud is not a place of computing, it's a style of computing, it's the new way all computing is done and I would say we're a great leader in providing all of that capability in a hybrid fashion, a multi-cloud world. Look, much more on that later, but you said it, we've always believed that where we've been, technology and IT is a means to an end and we're now all about helping our customers with the broadest portfolio in the industry, across those four main transformations, digital, IT, workplace, and security. It's really the story about helping a customer become more digital, become more agile, become more flexible and really in addition to those systems of record that they've been working on for a number of years and we've been helping them, it's really those systems of engagements and the systems of insight that really give that end-to-end view in this new world. >> Howard, I want to ask you, I want to go back to the acquisition briefly because I'm a Massachusets guy as are you-- >> Yes. >> You went through, you were digital during the Compaq acquisition, Compaq or the HP acquisition, both deals that I think we could say generously did not go very well. >> Howard: Yeah. >> What did you learn from that experience that you brought to this integration? >> I'll tell you, and this is really one of the things about what went right. A lot of it is based on experience, you know, what you learn to do right is learning what not to do wrong the next time, and I was engaged in some of those, certainly didn't lead those, but I was engaged with them. But look, we had a lot of things going for us. Joe and Michael completely aligned, business colleagues, respectful friendship over a number of years. Dell and EMC had a strong partnership for a better round of a decade, so we already learned how to work well together. And in the cultures, we understood the way each-other worked. The industrial logic of the deal, the complementary technology portfolio, complementary market and customer segments, the ability to now have scale in a world where scale matters, where customers are looking to drive out cost, efficiency and agility. And look, what Rory and I did is we applied all of those lessons learned. We picked our best people, pulled them out and put them full time on the job. We had rigorous cadence, regular face-to-face meetings with Michael and Joe all the way throughout, kept everybody informed and it's just come together extremely well. >> All right, how about the services you were doing, first talk about the hard news you're announcing at the show and then specifically talk about the digital transformation. Not to put a damper on your messaging, but we're kind of bored with digital transforming, we want to get some meat on the bone. And I like the quote on stage, digital transformation is about IT transformation, I think that's where your bullseye is. So, hard news and then where's the meat on the bone with respect to the IT transformation that's part of that digital transfer? >> Well, first of all, hopefully you won't get too tired 'cause digital transformation is the mantra for a long time to come. We're in the early days, and by the way, to us, digital transformation is really business transformation. It's becoming more software-defined, it's becoming closer to your customers, it's understanding your customers' needs many times before they even know they need it and that's that whole real-time insight analytic AI, machine-learning, all of that is going to be happening. So, we're on that mission big time. And in terms of services, we've described a three-phase journey that will take a couple of years. Phase one, we talked about collaboration where the teams were coming together, learning each other, systems, processes, tools being different, so collaborate, operate as one in front of the customer. We're in phase two right now, integration. We're starting to bring, we have already brought the teams together, but for example, at this show we're announcing bringing all of our services under the marketing umbrella of pro-support and pro-deploy. There are still different systems and tools and entitlement, but we're going to start to bring together that integration where ultimately, systems processing tools come together and that gets to the third phase of unification. And so it's a journey. But throughout that journey we are protecting the value we deliver our customers. Those customers that are used to the service that they get today, the way it's delivered, the people that are delivering it, we are not changing that as we bring our customers along the journey. >> You mentioned a number of times, analytics and the importance of understanding the customer better. Dell EMC does not really have a play in that area, there is no software component that addresses that market, is that a market that you think you would like to address directly or would you do that through partners? >> We actually do that today both directly and through partners, really Pivotal being a key part of the overall Dell Technologies portfolio, we actually have a big data, digital transformation practice as part of our consulting. If you think about our consulting organization where we help in IT transformation, digital transformation, workforce transformation, we work with our customers and partners on security as well. Pivotal is the key part, but we also work with many others and in fact, one of the offerings we're announcing here at the show today is an IOT assessment service. So, something to really work again from base infrastructure because you think about edge, to core, to cloud, how to make sure you aggregate the data, do the real-time analytics as opposed to the edge, and then trend data more and the core and long-time archival in the cloud. >> At that point, I want to ask you about the cloud strategy because everyone in the press, what's your cloud strategy, what's your cloud... I think you guys have a good play. I think the cloud strategy, multi-cloud is legit and hybrid cloud is real, a 100% real. Multi-cloud is still not ready for prime time for a lot of other reasons, but you guys are doing something in the cloud, with disaster recovery and some storage stuff. Take us through the sequence, because you said, it's early innings, I would agree. What are the sequence or the order of operations in terms of the kinds of services that go to the cloud first? >> Well, in terms of what application are services? >> You guys are working with customer zone, what are the customers doing with respect to, what are they going to the cloud for, first with respect to Dell, Dell EMC? >> Again, it gets back to, cloud is not a place. We're not moving things to a cloud, we're actually, all applications, all workloads, all services and processes are becoming cloud-enabled. Whether that's helping the customer in their data center, with the private cloud, a hybrid cloud hosted by a partner or on public cloud and you said it. We actually, with our services organization, we'll actually sit down with the customer, we'll look at their entire application and workload portfolio. We run it through filters of economics, service level, security and performance and from there we build a roadmap with the customer. Which types of workloads make sense in your own private cloud, which do you want to host in a virtue-stream cloud or a partner's cloud or which do you want to do in the public cloud? How about data protection? Do you want to protect the data in the cloud, to the cloud, from the cloud? All of those are conversations we take our customers through and we have many, many, many, not just dozens now, hundreds of examples where we are working with customers on implementing their hybrid cloud strategy. >> Paul, before you go, I've got a question, but I got a question from the crowd, the crowd is watching, thank you for sending the questions on crowdchat.net/dellemcworld. Can they deliver integrated services for on Prime? Reasons people go to the cloud. So, one of the reasons is integration end-to-end. How are you guys delivering some of those integrated services on Prime? Because that's where it started. >> It is starting there and we actually do both, operational services, residency-based services, but also manage services. Again, both directly and with partners based on where we've got capabilities and skills and geography and verticals. We work with our customers to deliver again that continuum. Many customers have the skills to do it themselves, most customers do not. And they want us to augment their skills, again, whether it's operational-residency services or a full-fledged manage service for cloud. >> As the head of services, I want to ask you about the, kind of the odd timing, you came on in September, in November, Dell sold off large part of its services business, business and former Perot systems to AT&T, what was the thinking there? Should we think of that part of the services business as being completely different from that which you-- >> Extremely different. And I Know we get some questions on this, so thanks for asking, it is great to clarify it. The Dell Services Organization, the old former Perot business that Dell had acquired was really more outsourcing, IT outsourcing, some BPO, some APO. Work that we really did not want to continue doing in the new company going forward. Our services are closer to the technology, technology-enablement services, to help the adoption and consumption of our technology and we really work with a broad ecosystem of partners to deliver the more outsourced services, APO and BPO. So, it's very clean from that set, we actually did not divest any of our technology services at all, and in fact, we're investing more. >> That's consistent with what HP did with Point Next, similar kind of, they had the EDS kind of thing, completely orthogonal to your operations, is what you're saying? >> Right and we've got such a phenomenal partner ecosystem that do this very well, each and every day, and all kinds of customer verticals and all kinds of geographies, they really have scale and we do this together with them. >> Okay, tough question, I'll put you on the spot, Howard, but I know you can handle it, if you could go back and get a mulligan from last year at the integration, what mulligan would you take, what would you tweak and change with the integration? >> You know, I'll tell you, I'm actually asked that question a lot and I'm not sure I would change anything. Look, let's face it, did everything go perfect? Nothing ever does. Are there some things that we go bump in the night occasionally? But all the big stuff, if I focus on the major stuff, right, in terms of the company structure, the operating model, the organizational structure of the company, the alignment of the goal to market, the alignment of the services, the product roadmaps and the portfolio, all of that went about as well as it could be expected. >> Talk about the momentum, VMware, I was just commenting in my opening, has a bigger market cap than actually HPE, just on the standalone basis. VMware is central in your services, you mentioned clouds, the great cloud play, recent deal with Amazon Web Services, how are you guys looking forward now? And if you could add some color to the conversations you're having with customers? So, you get a lot of things at your disposal, I'm trying to understand the top areas that customers are engaging you guys are, with respect to the VMware and this cloud-native shift in NSX. >> Actually, the big conversations are exactly that, in three dimensions. One is working with both Pivotal and VMware on the paths and layers, right, so they want to see that platform in place, they want to see the agility, the flexibility, the cloud-native essentials that are necessary to develop and deploy these new applications. By the way, also refactoring existing applications that they're deciding to keep into a more cloud-native world. Second is automation. How do I automate the IT infrastructure? Yeah, I'll modernize it, I'll go all flash, I'll go scalable, but how do I pull the labor cost out and be able to take that labor into more creative, innovative areas of my company, but I want to automate IT. And then, third is to make sure that the cost-effectiveness and the resiliency of that infrastructure is top-notch and world-class. Those are the conversations. The CIOs today, their job is getting more and more tough, they need to pull cost out, they have to have agility and flexibility. Oh, by the way, the systems can never go down and I want that new IOT thing, I want that new data analytic thing, I want that new machine-learning thing, so give me that agility and flexibility and creativity going forward. And those are the conversations we're having every day. >> Howard, as a guy who sort of oversaw this consolidation of these two companies, you have a chance to do something I think no two big companies have ever done before which is successfully merge. We were thinking earlier about, is there a precedent for a merger of this size that actually worked out and we couldn't think of one. >> Howard: Certainly not in IT. >> Not in IT, right, exactly. What makes you think this one will be different, other than the fact you're running it? >> I'm running services and IT now, I help put the playbook together. Look, the senior leadership team is now running it. And that's why we're going to continue to win, because of our relentless focus on customers, we all spend a tremendous amount of time understanding what our customers are doing, what more they want us to do, the feedback from our customers. We spend almost as much time with our partners as well. But this leadership team is on the mission. And it's about creating the essential infrastructure company for the next great era of IT, the industrial revolution where we know that companies need to transform in all those dimensions we talk about. And our leadership team, and we're just actually going through our next, we call Tell Dell Survey, where we also get feedback from our team members, from our employees and our measurements are clear. We measure ourself on customer MPS, our team-member employee MPS, our relative market share performance, are we gaining share or are we not and then all of that will deliver the financials that we all look for. And we are all aligned on that. >> Howard, you also oversee the Dell IT program, this is proven IT program. What is that about? I heard some buzz about that. >> Yeah, so this started several years ago where a lot of customers would say, "So, you want me to buy..." (sound cuts out) So we actually (sound cuts out). Things that work. (sound cuts out) >> Cooking up in... (sound cuts out) >> They have to. Witness richness of our portfolio because (sound cuts out). >> Howard, thank you for coming. Consecutive year, it's been a great journey for all. In fact, I remember the (sound cuts out). A 160 billion dollar market that's true private cloud, so you guys remember one in that as well, Dell EMC, great to see you and congratulations on a very successful transaction and hope to see more updates along the way. >> You got it, great to see you, thank you very much. >> All right, this is the Cube live coverage from Dell EMC World 2017, I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillan, we'll be right back with more coverage, stay with us.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Hello everyone, welcome to the Cube special coverage of Dell EMC World 2017. This is the Cube Silicon Angle's flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. This is our eighth year of covering EMC World, but now called Dell EMC World. I'm John Furrier, your co-host on our set one and with my co-host Paul Gillin this week as well as Kieth Townshend and John Walls and Rebecca Knight on set two. Double barrel shotgun of content here at Dell EMC World with you. Thanks for joining us for three days of wall to wall coverage. Paul, so much to talk about here this week. Digital transformation, little bit boring theme, it's being played out in real time. But this is a historic moment because one, the Cube started at EMC World in 2010, eight years ago. But, this is the first official EMC World where it's Dell EMC World, kind of a mini event in Austin, but since Michael Dell took over, or I'm sorry, merger of equals, a combination. >> Paul: Combination, as they call it. >> (chuckling) Combination. This is the first instantiation of EMC World as Dell EMC World. Jeremy Burton's now the CMO of Dell Technologies which is the holding company for all the companies. It's the same EMC World flair, now the integrated content. Notable absent Cube alumni and executives from EMC. We'll talk about that in the EMC Mafia segment shortly, but (chuckling) your thoughts because now Michael Dell's puttin' the rubber to the road. Kind of nothing earth shattering in his keynote, but certainly private company, all guns blaring, smiling and dialing, he's got the swagger on stage. >> Well, Michael is nothing if not an optimist. He's always good at seeing a brighter future, and at his keynote this morning, as you said it was blissfully free of content, but it did talk a lot about digital transformation which is of course the buzzword of the year in the IT industry. Little surprised that Dell adopted the same buzzword that HP and Cisco and all these other big companies are adopting. What happened in the keynote is less interesting than how the mood changes here, and this is the coming out party for Dell EMC. Yeah, there was a conference last October, a month after the merger, but this is really, things have finally settled out, now six months later and it's a chance for customers and for the partners to get a sense of how well this is all working out. >> And one of the things I'm watching is how the story's unfolding 'cause now you're starting to see the big companies, certainly in the consolidation side of the business market of infrastructure and data center and enterprise IT, it's a consolidating mature market. It is transforming, there is a cloud story requirement, there are new software requirements, software defined data center, as well as new growth opportunities, so what I'm looking at is what is the story? What is Michael packaging and how does that compare to the competition? We're going to hear from HPE at HPE Discover coming up, the Cube will be covering that for the seventh consecutive year. We're seeing Amazon's story playing out in real time. Oracle's story, everyone's got their story. And it's certainly digital transformation but what's interesting is Michael's got the packaging. He's packaging it up, your thoughts. >> And Michael kind of dissed the cloud this morning, actually in his presentation. He said, you can't have a successful business, or your business is not going to grow as quickly if you're 100% cloud based. He was very much making a pitch for data center infrastructure. Really not surprising coming from Michael. One thing that will be a sub-theme here I think is how this merger is working out, and as we wrote on Silicon Angle this week, if you go back to the history of big mega mergers, particularly in the hardware industry, going back to Burroughs Sperry, DEC Compaq, HP Compaq, Wellfleet Synoptics and NCR AT&T. I mean, it goes on and on and on. Pretty much all disasters, and we really haven't seen a merger anywhere near this scale between two IT companies that has worked well. All indications are now that they're doing the right things, they even have some people on board with Dell EMC who went through some of those mergers. But it's going to be interesting to see how they break a pattern that has been decidedly negative. >> Great point, I loved your post by the way, and I would add that interesting observation, at least from my perspective is, as we sit down with these billionaires and interview them one-on-one on the Cube is, you look at Amazon, Andy Jasse and Jeff Bezos, Bezos in particular. Larry Ellison and Michael Dell, you have essentially captains of industry at the helm. Michael Dell is no spring chicken, but he's also not over the hill either, he's 51 years old. >> Paul: He's a kid relative to most leaders in this industry. >> You know, you hear Jeff Bezos talk and I was watching his talk in DC just this week, he's saying we're taking the long view. If you look at Amazon.com's CEO, Bezos, look at Michael Dell, look at what Ellison's doing, they're all playing the long game card. Now I don't know if that's a hedge against we don't have our story right, or give us more time to bake out our stuff, but I think what's different about Dell Technologies is, Michael's 33 years into the business, one trillion dollars later in sales and he's young, so I think that is a wild card. Ellison's still running the show, Bezos is still running the show, Dell's certainly running the show. I think the wild card on this is the fact that you got a strong founder, and a privately held company. >> And Ellison, it's questionable how long Ellison will be able to run the show, I mean he is over 70 at this point. Dell certainly will be around for a long time. You have to take a long term strategy. If you're not Amazon, you have to take a long term strategy 'cause what other choice do you have? You've lost in the short term, so it's not surprising to hear these guys going that way. I'll be interested to hear from Michael and from his team about the cloud and how they really design and differentiate its strategy. I think IBM has staked its position in cloud out pretty well. Even HPE has got a differentiated position. HPE of course has the configurable hardware, that's a point that Dell I think has to come back on, and the big question is software. John, as you pointed out the other day, VMware is worth more than HPE, by a substantial margin at this point. They've got this huge asset in VMware, not to mention Virtuestream and Pivotal and the other good software assets they acquired. What are they going to do with them? Are they just going to let 'em go free like Michael has done in the past, or are they going to try to mold these into some kind of coordinated whole? >> Well, great point one is on the HPE valuation thing market cap, VMware's actually worth more on market cap and public markets than HPE. Interesting, but not significant in my mind yet, but it does point to the fact that Michael Dell's rhetoric on stage today, he didn't take any shots at HP. Last year he took a big shot at HPE. It's been his rival from day one. I used to work at HP when he was just a mail order company selling white boxes and then he grew that business, obviously the rest is history, but no shot at HP because VMware has to work with HP. Right, (chuckling) so that's interesting. Two is, on the software side, Dell is a hardware company, let's face it. But they have more software now than they've ever had before so that is a good point, we're going to be getting into this date software defined data center to find out how much they actually have. A couple core themes that I see already popping out of the keynote, one, Pivotal. Pivotal and Cloud Foundry's instrumental in the keynotes. NSX was mentioned, Pat Gelsinger's going to be on tomorrow. NSX is VMware's secret play. If you look at what NSX is doing with the Amazon public cloud deal that they did recently this year, NSX could be the real lever in that intellectual property, that lock in, that kind of differentiation. The cloud is not a place, it's a way of doing IT is another message we heard all day today. To me, and your point about bashing cloud, I actually think that's a stake in the ground to kind of hold the line, because they have no cloud strategy. Now, their cloud strategy is kind of hand waiving right now with multi-cloud, which I buy, but multi-cloud is still a fantasy in my mind. Latencies are too low, there just isn't the kind of plumbing yet in place on the clouds for multi-cloud, but certainly hybrid-cloud I think will be multi-cloud roll, so those are the key things and then I'm going to ask Michael directly. You blew 60 billion dollars on this deal. Is there any cash left for M&A? >> Paul: Acquisitions, yeah. >> M&A right now is hot market, you can do some nice tuck ins, fill in the white spaces on the products. Get those software assets and really start cobbling together a growth strategy. There's no doubt in my mind, Paul, that they're going to win the mature, classic business school move of consolidated market. Own the consolidated market, and try to get a growth strategy. To me, that's going to be the big question. What is Dell Technologies and Dell EMC's growth strategy? >> And you would have to think it's either through M&A, perhaps an acquisition of HPE if the valuation continues to go down. Or it's in software It's a good point you made about VMware. Vmware also has a strategic alliance with IBM, so if you're Michael Dell, it's hard to give a compelling keynote speech these days because you can't really offend anybody. His companies now are in cahoots with all these other firms, and of course dissing the cloud is even dangerous because Cloud Foundry is such a critical part of the Pivotal strategy. I think it's an important point, you've got a company that is almost trying to reassemble the old IBM, the old IBM of the '80s which dominated every segment that was important Dell is almost doing that now, I mean the only piece they really don't have is networking. To make a big play, to become the mongo IT company in the world, can they raise the kind of funds for that? >> Yeah, and we're also going to talk about the cloud transition as well as what I'm calling the EMC mafia, folks that have been on the Cube and big executives at EMC. We'll get to that in a minute, but I just want to talk about that cloud play, because you're right, the growth strategy has to come from software. I just don't see the cloud growth yet for these guys, although Michael, in the hallway, conversations are growth in the cloud is doing really well for EMC, not sure. But on the growth strategy, Pivotal, Boo-Mee, Vmware, Virtuestream, and Software Converge Infrastructure are interesting plays, so I think that's where we have to look here. I still think there's a lot of holes in the product line. To me that's important. Now, trends so far, and what we're expecting to hear at the show is, some of my notes Paul, I'll share with you, and get your reaction on. All flash arrays are going to be big, continuing to grow that. Hyperconverge VX rail, we heard that on stage today, claiming to be number one. Power edge 14G. Again, back to speeds and feeds, (chuckling) you know. Storage. Storage is the bread and butter of EMC and now Dell EMC I still think is going to be a real critical beachhead that they going to continue to expand, storage is not going away. Obviously the ice lawn all flash is coming out, and then SSD's, data protection in the cloud. You're starting to see them going where their roots are. Cloud stuff is coming out of the data domain, kind of their core storage first, make sense strategy wise, while they buy their time to fill in the cloud. >> Well, it's a good point about storage. They have a comfortable lead in storage. According to the latest IDC figures, they're a good 15 points ahead of their next biggest competitor. They have a comfortable lead in the hyper converge infrastructure. Four different product lines in that area. These are beachheads that they have to shore up. They have to be sure that their market share doesn't erode in those areas. The question is where does the growth come from? You look at a company that's going through a very similar transition right now, Cisco, which has finally really bought in to software defined networking and is remaking its company around it. That company is having to change the whole culture in response to a technology trend. Now the same thing's going on in the data center. Everything's being remade as virtualized and Vmware is at the center of that, so Michael Dell has the asset to be able to lead that conversion, but are they psychologically going to get there? >> Great point. One, I would agree with you that the whole Cisco example proves the same channel that Dell EMC is. Can they move up the stack? In this case, they're hardware guys, can they add software. Cisco, they're transforming themselves to be more cloud native. The classic move's happening. Cisco have been trying to move up the stack for over a generation. They're plumbing guys, they're networking guys. These guys are hardware guys. Can they get the DNA to truly become software providers, not in the sense of selling software, just providing a software fabric that's going to be the key differentiators, because digital transformation is about IT transformation. That is certainly the reality, what we're seeing when you start to peel back the onions. And that to me is going to be the big discussion because as David Gooldun said on stage, apps provide the value. As the enterprises build more apps, you got to have a platform, you got to have a cohesive horizontal end to end software fabric, and the question is, do they have it? >> Well, they certainly have the foundation for it, I mean they have Pivotal, there's a whole developer community around Pivotal. Dell itself doesn't have a developer community, nor does EMC but they have elements of that to build upon. The interesting thing about the conversion to software, about software defined infrastructure, is that it requires thinking from an application perspective and that's not something hardware companies have ever been inclined to do. So, how does Michael Dell make that transition, has he made it himself, is there other leadership he's going to have to bring in who are going to make it for him? The whole leadership of the Dell EMC company right now is ex-Dell and EMC people, it's hardware guys. >> I'm going to put pressure on Dell, the question on software. But you wrote a two part series on SiliconAngle.com, worth checking out, getting a lot of viral buzz around open source and the value of open source, because if you look at say Cisco for instance, what they're doing with the cloud native strategy, they have actually pivoted and Chuck Robbins, the CEO has acknowledged, actually re-tweeted one of my tweets the other day, with as we were talking about this new program called DevNet Create. They're taking the developer program from Cisco and moving it into an open community model, which basically is the toe in the water for saying, we have to figure out open source. All the critical, big vendors that are transforming from called the old guard, as Amazon calls 'em, Amazon Web Services, Andy Jasse. Dell's an old guard guy, but still young, but they got to get to open source. What are you finding is the success parameters there because you got to play in the open source, be a contributing member. Again, back to the DNA of the culture, and two, there's real value there. >> Well, there's no question that open source has won when it comes to infrastructure. I mean, the biggest IT companies in the world which are Google and Facebook, are both built on open source platforms. Game over. This is where IT infrastructure is headed. Cisco, interesting case because they are an infrastructure company, and they are being eroded, their traditional market is being eroded by open source, they've chosen to embrace it through their developer community. Cisco is one company I would never bet against. They're such a great company. If anyone's going to make the transition, they will. Open source is still an infrastructure play. I don't see open source in the applications area being a major driver, but Dell is an infrastructure company, so you have to assume that everything they're doing in managing, in securing storage and servers is going to be under pressure from open source at some point. They have to embrace that as Cisco is doing. >> Paul, we had thought leader chat with some experts on our digital panel, software crowd chat, everyone knows crowdchat.net, check it out. And comment and conversation was taking place among the influential folks saying, what is a software company? You go back to the web, shrink wrapped, download software, to now fully SAS based and Saas now platform, what is a software company? So, the question was, is Facebook a software company? Or are they an app company? Which begs the question, you have to be a software company, but it's not the classic software company category, business model. You need software (chuckling) to run stuff, so you can be a hardware guy, like Michael Dell, and have Dell Technologies. You can be a network company like Cisco, but you've got to be a software company in the new way. >> Well, I spoke to a Forester analyst in writing that piece on open source who had a great point, he said Facebook and Google are two big successful software companies, neither of which makes. >> Any money. >> Any money, a little bit in Google's case licensing software. They created business models that have nothing to do with the traditional software model, but that have leveraged their expertise in the software that they've developed. And maybe that is the business model, ultimately the business model is building software in order to do something else with it that customers will pay for. >> I think you're on to something. I think your post illuminates that. I think that this is going to be one of those things where in the history books of the tech generation, as we're on our whatever wave of open source generation, this is it, it's not about the business model of the software, it's how the software's being used in the business model of the transformation. That is really really key. Paul, I want to just talk about, really quickly about my observation at EMC. A little bit of editorial moment here. Because, Dell took over. Dell EMC. We've interviewed now eight years, pretty much all the executives at EMC over the years, but there's an EMC mafia developing. There's a lot of people who have left EMC, that we know, we're friends with. Guy Churchwood, CJ DeSai, Josh Conn, Rich DePellatano, Brian Gallagher, BJ Jenkins, Sanjay Murchandani, and many more have left because of the consolidation. Certainly you can't, EMC's going to get consolidated down, but no major layoffs but still enough that some eagles have flown from the nest, as they say and are running other companies. So you have this EMC culture out there of very sales oriented, very customer centric, now running other companies, and I want to give a shout out to all those EMC alumni and mafia out there. Good luck on your new ventures, but the impact here to Dell is a mashup of the two cultures. What's your observation, what's your reaction of that. Have you heard anything? I have some thoughts, but I want to get your reaction because okay, some eagles fly away, you still got the worker bees inside EMC, and now Dell coming together. Thoughts on the culture clash. >> Well, I live in Boston, and so I've been through the acquisition of Prime Computer, through EMC acquiring Data General, through the DEC acquisition by Compaq. All of which were disasters, and all of which where the cultural issues were much bigger than the technology issues. So, I think that that is something that Dell has to be front and center for Michael Dell, is how do you mash up these two cultures. As you pointed out, EMC, very aggressive, take no prisoners, enterprise-oriented sales force. Their sales people make a lot of money. I used to live in a neighborhood where everyone was EMC salespeople. >> John: Buying new houses. >> They were making a million dollars a year. And you've got Dell with its direct model, with its channeled model, and without a particularly strong roots in enterprise sales force and how do you coordinate those. It's not surprising to see people leaving. Of course, in the early days after an acquisition, choices get made, people get promoted and moved in new positions. Those who lose out tend to leave the company. But, I think the sales issue would be something to delve into too. Does Dell want to adopt EMC's sales style, or the other way around? Or is there some way that they can live both in harmony? >> You know, I follow a lot of companies in Silicon Valley as well, I'm out there on the west coast, left coast, as they say. Where all the crazy ones are, as they say. But I got to say, there's been some shrinkage on EMC, but for the most part, I haven't really heard any really negative horror stories. Actually, it's been going pretty well, and I think you bring up an issue of effectiveness with the sales folks. Dell's an efficiency guy, right so you got effectiveness and efficiency coming together. But I think they've handled it well. I really haven't heard any real horror stories. Again, I think that has to do with the founder being actively involved, they're a private company, so they have some room. And I think they've invested in making that happen, so I think generally, props to EMC folks and for the Dell folks on the acquisition. Still not clear the woods yet, it's going to surely be in the products and the revenue, but for the most part, we're going to unpack that. So Paul. >> But you can't, I just wanted to jump in just quickly. You can't minimize customer touch, and EMC was always a high touch company. Outstanding service, they put people on a plane in the middle of the night, charter a private jet in the middle of the night to get someone on site at a customer to fix a problem. As you mentioned, Dell is an efficiency company. That's not a very efficient way to operate. Can they absorb the best of EMC and the best of Dell at the same time? >> Yeah, well we'll certainly tell, I mean they got a lot of competition, Michael Dell saying on stage. (mumbling) startups, essentially what's he's saying is Amazon, there in my opinion, although that's not probly what he really meant but that's my interpretation. But I'm expecting to see the same old EMC world with a twist, and that is, we're doin' good, the messaging's out there, we're going to see how the products compare vis a vis the competition. I'm interested in Vmware piece. Paul, what are you looking forward to? >> I'm looking forward to hearing how this is all going, how this company is culturally, what kind of a cultural chimera they're putting together here that's going to make sense, that the market is going to understand. I also want to hear how they're going to differentiate in cloud, internet of things, we just heard a little bit about that this morning. That's something where I think you're seeing Cisco. The way Cisco's dealing with the cloud these days is to say, don't worry about it, it's all going IOT. It's all going to distributed intelligent devices, the cloud is already history, is what they're saying. So, does Dell have a similar differentiated position on that. I'm least interested in hearing about the new products because it's speeds and feeds. But really, how is this company going to dominate an industry, how is it going to get over some of the speed bumps that we've been talking about for the last 20 minutes that have foiled so many merger attempts in the past. >> One of the tell signs that I look at a conference when I see a lot of AI washing. The good news is, there's not a lot of AI being talked about here, 'cause usually that's just lipstick on the pig, as they say. Except for the case of Google and Amazon Web Services, they do have some AI story, with some real products to back it up. For the most part, you're not seeing EMC glob on the whole machine learning, rah rah. They did talk about it but it wasn't like a big theme. I think they really talked about the packaging of the value. Of the brands together, comments around costs for public cloud, nice little ding there. I'm going to dig into the story. I'm going to really test the story, and I'm going to look at the customer traction. I really want to see who they have on stage, I really want to hear who's really going down the road, how that growth strategy, 'cause I think they're going to win the data consolidation market pretty handily, and the question between HPE and Dell, for instance, 'cause that's really to me the two big horses on the track. Who's going to win the growth. Who's going to be able to lock in their beachhead on the core market, traditional market, and have access to the growth of what cloud will bring and IOT and among other things. >> I think at this point, HP has a better story in that area with their configurable infrastructure, with their pay as you go on site model, really interesting models. I was at HP World in Europe in December, and I came away from that feeling like these guys have some unique talking points here. At least they have a strategy that I think I understand and that is different. Dell is still working through this huge merger and that's a big catch. >> Bottom line is, Dave Donatelli, who's an executive at Oracle told me, he also was an EMC executive, and HPE. The business of provisioning servers and storage (laughing) is not going to be the growth strategy. Now, it might be a component of the overall business model, like software, but ultimately, that business is in decline, and that's a fact. Okay, this is the Cube, bringing you all the coverage of the kickoff from day one at Dell EMC World 2017. Our eighth year, three days of wall to wall coverage. We have two sets, the blue set and the white set. Go to SiliconAngle.tv to find the coverage, also go on Twitter, follow us on the Cube, I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillin, kickin' off Dell EMC World 2017, back with more, stay with us after this short break. (atmospheric instrumental music)

>> Announcer: Live from Palo Alto. It's the Cube, Covering Women Transforming Technology 2017. Brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of Women Transforming Technology here at VMware. I'm Rebecca Knight, your host. I'm joined by Colleen Kapase, she is the vice president of Partner Go to Market Programs and Incentives here at VMware. Colleen thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me, I appreciate it. >> So you are a Channel Chief, that sounds so, it's a great title I love it. (laughs) Can you explain to our viewers a little bit about what you do? >> Absolutely, and maybe my mom will watch this cause she still doesn't quite understand. >> Mom are you listening, okay. >> What I do. Channel Chief is a wonderful opportunity to drive the sales strategy inside a technology vendor through multiple different partners who sell our technology around the world. What many people don't know in the technology industry is trillions and trillions of dollars of our sales go through partners. In fact we even partner with ourselves. VMware partners with Google and Amazon and Dell and everyone else in the industry to help ourselves sell because customers don't buy a technology, they buy a solution. So much like the retail industry, where clothes are made by a brand, it's not necessarily sold by that brand. It's sold Nordstrom's or Bloomingdale's etc. Same thing in technology. So my role as a Channel Chief is to manage those relationships. VMware has about 60,000 partners worldwide, and so our focus as a Channel Chief is how do I get those partners to sell our technology, and not just sell it, but deliver it, and install it, and architect it, and put a whole solution together because VMware is often sold with many other technologies. The server side, the networking side, the storage side, and put a solution together for our customers. So that's what I get up and think about every day, is how do I get these partners to sell VMware. >> So you, it's a sales role. >> Colleen: It is. >> And are there many other, and you're also in corporate. >> Colleen: Yes. >> Channel Chief. Are there many other women in these leadership roles? >> Yeah, not as much as I would like to see today. But I think it's beginning to grow as a career that's well suited, frankly, for women. It is a corporate role, in many cases, and there's different kinds of Channel Chief. There's a field Channel Chief that's out there meeting with all the different partners, putting together the business cases and how can we sell more in the future. My role, and one that's really growing in the industry is a corporate Channel Chief. We think though the incentives. Almost like the comp plan for a sales person, but it's what's the comp plan for a partner. How do we pay them, what behaviors do we want to reward for. What behaviors do we want to stop rewarding for. And how do we want to move the cheese, if you will, on the sales team that happens every year, it's a very natural thing but we're thinking about these for businesses versus individuals. Another piece is what's the legal requirements of working with us, what's the training requirements, which technology do you need to know, how do we need to increase those technologies. The wonderful thing is a Channel Chief, really, we touch the marketing department, the legal department, the finance department, the sales department, most importantly, the business unit department that creates the technology. How do we sell it. You're almost like a mini CEO within the company. But if you do it at a corporate level, it's also a role that doesn't require a lot of travel. And that seems to be one of the main inhibitors for women that I see in sales, is the road warrior piece is something that just doesn't work for a lot of women. So being a corporate Channel Chief you can be involved in the strategy, doing the research, setting the direction. But have a bit more of a stable home life as well, so you can balance work and home. >> Right, and you can get to a certain point of influence in your career without having to be out there as much. >> Absolutely, but I always refer to it again as that mini CEO because you're really that hub and spoke, you touch so many different departments and you're solving so many company problems that are really at the central piece. Hey, it's amazing, we've created networking virtualization, how are we going to sell it? Who do we sell it with? What does it displace, what does it replace? How do we explain it to customers? Who was selling networking already that could help us do this? Really it's the hub of everything. >> And because you're collaborating with all these different business units, as you say, gets your brain working in different ways too which is fun. >> Absolutely. >> And, not to be generic, but having that collaborative spirit that many of us women have, it really works well for you. You have to be able to understand, and put yourself in the position of finance, of the business unit, of the legal team, and be able to communicate with all of 'em, okay this is how we're going to bring this technology to market. >> So for a viewer out there, that sounds like something I'd like to do, how did you get started? How did you become a Channel Chief? >> Yep, not so interesting story but I'll share with you anyways. >> Rebecca: We only want interesting stories Colleen. >> I came from a family that had a doctor, and a teaching background from my parents. So when I said I wanted to go into business I think they wanted to disown me somewhat, and didn't really know how to guide me, so I was really on my own. Went to the University of Washington Business School and really went to the career center and saw consulting. And in my mind I'm like, ah consulting, I can try different things, do different things and learn more about business to find my niche, and it happened to be a channel consulting company based out of Seattle, Washington. So I actually started as an intern. And there are multiple different channel consulting companies that still exist, especially in the Bay area, in Boston are two of the main headquarters of those. I got to see what is a channel strategist do in hardware vendors, software vendors. I worked for Compaq, I worked in HP, I worked in Inktomi. I quickly learned that software had more monies so that seemed like a good direction to go. There's a small group of folks that understand channel. But they're very willing to train the next generation. So it's a very niche, really profession. If you understand it, and if you listen to the partners, and you bring back their voice within your vendor, you can be very well respected in the industry as well. >> Now you're also on the diversity council here at VMware. >> Colleen: Yes. >> What are some of the things you're working on to make this a more inclusive work environment? >> Great question. Some of the things that we're working on within VMware, that I think is very important, especially because VMware has our engineering background is the math behind the problem statement. How are we doing as a company? We have created wonderful dashboards that really sit down with our leaders and really look at diversity. How many women to we have in the company? How many do we have at individual contributors all the way up in to the vice president level. How many come in from a recruitment standpoint, how many do we promote and how many do we lose? What I've found is, sitting down with our leadership, male and female and looking at the math and the dashboards of where we stand as a company gives us a single foundation to start from, and then figure out how are we going to continue to improve that? I'm sure, as you know, VMware's recently come out with our statistics of being 23%, for instance female. And then we're constantly looking at how can we improve upon that. We have educating people in the programs that we have. People of Difference, our PODS for instance. We have a VM inclusion, People of Difference, POD, around women and that's when we get together and talk about how can we support each other, what are some tactics that we can come with to support each other even just in a meeting. You know you can sit in a meeting, and you know that old adage of you can say something and then possibly a male repeats it and you weren't listened the first time. But what's amazing to watch in VMware, now other women are trained to stop in that meeting, say, ah, actually I think Colleen just said that, so nice of you to repeat that. Handled in a nice almost fun kind of way. >> That's not always easy to do though. >> No it's not. >> I mean, that takes a deft touch. So are you also in those training sessions? Are you, is there sort of an EQ component to it? >> Absolutely, and we practice. So we literally have groups of ourselves, that we go through the training and we practice, and we hold each other accountable, and say in two weeks find one example where that happened to a colleague or yourself and how did you correct the situation or not correct the situation. Let's talk about it, why did you or didn't you. Holding each other accountable seems to be a big, big piece of, I think, the success at VMware. Cause you can discuss the problem and have a support group of agreeing on what the issue is, but not take action to fix it. And so those support groups, and coming together, and saying here's the issue, and here's how I addressed it in my small way, in my one meeting, and those death by a thousand cuts starts to stop, and you find you have alliances with other women who are supporting women, and we're all trying to come together to further the cause, which is a great feeling. >> So, I mean, this sounds as though things are, that VMware is aware of this and is trying to improve the culture. But Silicon Valley gets a lot of bad press, particularly lately, particularly this last week. >> Colleen: Yes. >> Of being an intolerant place, or being sexist. Is it as bad as we're hearing? >> I've certainly heard some of the stories at some of the other tech vendors recently. I'd hate to think it's that way at every single company. I know that Uber's story is recently come up, that's pretty serious, I think. Do I think everyone experiences it as a female at some level, whether it's the joke or the football talk, or not feeling included, or the cigar lounge. I think that happens to some extent everywhere. Did the seriousness of what we're hearing come out in the press happen everywhere, I hope not. I haven't had those types of experience. But I think almost everyone has had it. You know, just a mispositioning of a statement that did offend, or hey, how was maternity leave handled by male leadership. And there's something I'm pretty, pretty passionate about, that we're beginning discussion at VMware, which is a reverse mentor. So we're really asking some of our male leaders to look at having a female or diverse candidate reverse mentor. So someone lower than you, honestly, in the pecking order, telling you, or being there as someone you can bounce something off of. Hey I was thinking of doing this, would this bother you as a woman? Or when they see you say something or do something, or hey did you notice you, you know, leader, you had a panel and it was all men. Really having a relationship where they can have those conversations, cause sometimes what we're finding is the men just really aren't aware. And you want to think that they are, and I think we're so super aware and more vigilant of it that they would be more aware, but I think having the ability as a leader to learn from your team or someone specifically on you team that you have trust. >> But the people who have the reverse mentors, aren't they already a self selecting group in the sense of their already the ones who are aware that there are problems. I mean, I'm just thinking about it, >> Yeah >> It sounds like a great idea, but how do you get that leader who maybe is a little more bullheaded or just unaware, oblivious, to say you need this, you need someone of, who has a different perspective than you, telling you how it is, or telling you what his or her experiences. >> I think that's a great question. Something we're pretty focused on is diversity. We're not necessarily doing it to be nice. We're doing it for business outcomes. I think the hope is, you have, maybe the leaders who are self selecting who come and do the reverse mentoring, are aware of their organization and how they need to improve. But what we can show is, if they work on it over time, they get better business outcomes. And in sales business outcomes is very clear and easy to see. (Rebecca laughing) So the teams that have the more diverse teams, and lean in to the issue, even if they were more self selecting, if they have the better business outcomes, if they have the better sales over time, it becomes less of a, hey the person who is bullish who doesn't want to, he needs you to do this to be nice, it's more, this person got better sales results than you did, so why don't we take a page out of what they did and try some of these things. And I think if we can keep in on business outcomes, that's part of the way we can win. In sales, that's a little easier than on the technical side. >> There's a clear ROI >> Colleen: Absolutely. When you look at it. No, and I think that's a really good point because you do think of diversity training as kind of this squishy thing, that you can't necessarily always quantify. >> Colleen: Yeah. >> What are you, what are you seeing, and what are you hearing from your colleagues, your other Channel Chiefs in terms of what's happening? (sighs) >> Great question. There's not enough of us, so I actually just met with four of them yesterday from Brocade, and Riverbed, and Sungard, and we had a discussion of what's working or what's not working. I think we're seeing a better understanding from all of our peers on male and female, of there's an issue, we're not diverse. The statistics are being published now. We're seeing companies come out, VMware published, where are we at. And you can just kind of look at the numbers and say we have a ways to go. >> So you're benchmarking yourself, but then you're also benchmarking yourself against, >> Against others. >> Yes. >> I think more people are coming out and, you know, I think Facebook, and Apple sort of started some of that trend, but Amazon, Microsoft, Oracle, they're all publishing now their percent of leadership that is women. So I think we have an agreement on, we've got an issue, we could see mathematically we have a problem. We need to improve that. I don't think some of the smaller companies have the assets and the resources to solve the problem yet. And they're looking at some of the larger companies, what are you doing, and what tools are you developing and how can we learn from you. Cause when you talk to some of those smaller companies that maybe are more likely to have some of the female leaderships in those positions, they still don't know how they are going to solve this problem completely. >> Thinking about the top women in Silicon Valley, or top women in the technology industry, the names we know that are in the press all the time, the Sheryl Sanberg's, and Jenny Remedy's, who do you think are some of the unsung heroes? >> Oh, unsung heroes. You know, I, in my world, in the channel world I see a much smaller community of women. I see the women in VMware frankly. I think Betsy and what she's done at VMware as our chief people officer, and really taking the issue on, pretty head on, and even, you know, to the point of having the Women Transforming Technology event here at VMware and sponsoring it, and getting Dell to sponsor it, and Pivotal and the other sponsors. I think that's been huge, and that's been a journey watching her on as well. Cause she's been at VMware 12 to 14 years, I think. And having a female founder of VMware wasn't an issue, you didn't think of it, that was actually one of the things used to recruit me here, that i was very excited about at VMware. But over time we saw things change and maybe the dynamics as we grew fast, diversity didn't necessarily grow. And she was the one who said we need to stop, if we need to be thoughtful about this, we need to think. This isn't going to get VMware the best business outcomes, and she's really been pushing the issue quite strongly at VMware. I'm in awe of her. I don't see her discussed as much as Sheryl Sanberg and the luminaries out there, but I've been seeing her battles within VMware and she's been making a huge difference. >> Colleen Kapase, thank you so much for joining us. >> Yeah, thank you for having me, I appreciate it. >> We're at Women Transforming Technology here at VMware. I'm Rebecca Knight, we'll be right back. (techno music) (techno music)