>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston bringing you Data Driven Insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> In the pre-cloud era hardware companies would run benchmarks, showing how database and or application performance ran better on their systems relative to competitors or previous generation boxes. And they would make a big deal out of it. And the independent software vendors, you know they'd do a little golf clap if you will, in the form of a joint press release it became a game of leaprog amongst hardware competitors. That was pretty commonplace over the years. The Dell Snowflake Deal underscores that the value proposition between hardware companies and ISVs is changing and has much more to do with distribution channels, volumes and the amount of data that lives On-Prem in various storage platforms. For cloud native ISVs like Snowflake they're realizing that despite their Cloud only dogma they have to grit their teeth and deal with On-premises data or risk getting shut out of evolving architectures. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we unpack what little is known about the Snowflake announcement from Dell Technologies World and discuss the implications of a changing Cloud landscape. We'll also share some new data for Cloud and Database platforms from ETR that shows Snowflake has actually entered the Earth's orbit when it comes to spending momentum on its platform. Now, before we get into the news I want you to listen to Frank's Slootman's answer to my question as to whether or not Snowflake would ever architect the platform to run On-Prem because it's doable technically, here's what he said, play the clip >> Forget it, this will only work in the Public Cloud. Because it's, this is how the utility model works, right. I think everybody is coming through this realization, right? I mean, excuses are running out at this point. You know, we think that it'll, people will come to the Public Cloud a lot sooner than we will ever come to the Private Cloud. It's not that we can't run a private Cloud. It's just diminishes the potential and the value that we bring. >> So you may be asking yourselves how do you square that circle? Because basically the Dell Snowflake announcement is about bringing Snowflake to the private cloud, right? Or is it let's get into the news and we'll find out. Here's what we know at Dell Technologies World. One of the more buzzy announcements was the, by the way this was a very well attended vet event. I should say about I would say 8,000 people by my estimates. But anyway, one of the more buzzy announcements was Snowflake can now run analytics on Non-native Snowflake data that lives On-prem in a Dell object store Dell's ECS to start with. And eventually it's software defined object store. Here's Snowflake's clark, Snowflake's Clark Patterson describing how it works this past week on theCUBE. Play the clip. The way it works is I can now access Non-native Snowflake data using what materialized views, external tables How does that work? >> Some combination of the, all the above. So we've had in Snowflake, a capability called External Tables, which you refer to, it goes hand in hand with this notion of external stages. Basically there's a through the combination of those two capabilities, it's a metadata layer on data, wherever it resides. So customers have actually used this in Snowflake for data lake data outside of Snowflake in the Cloud, up until this point. So it's effectively an extension of that functionality into the Dell On-Premises world, so that we can tap into those things. So we use the external stages to expose all the metadata about what's in the Dell environment. And then we build external tables in Snowflake. So that data looks like it is in Snowflake. And then the experience for the analyst or whomever it is, is exactly as though that data lives in the Snowflake world. >> So as Clark explained, this capability of External tables has been around in the Cloud for a while, mainly to suck data out of Cloud data lakes. Snowflake External Tables use file level metadata, for instance, the name of the file and the versioning so that it can be queried in a stage. A stage is just an external location outside of Snowflake. It could be an S3 bucket or an Azure Blob and it's soon will be a Dell object store. And in using this feature, the Dell looks like it lives inside of Snowflake and Clark essentially, he's correct to say to an analyst that looks exactly like the data is in Snowflake, but uh, not exactly the data's read only which means you can't do what are called DML operations. DML stands for Data Manipulation Language and allows for things like inserting data into tables or deleting and modifying existing data. But the data can be queried. However, the performance of those queries to External Tables will almost certainly be slower. Now users can build things like materialized views which are going to speed things up a bit, but at the end of the day, it's going to run faster than the Cloud. And you can be almost certain that's where Snowflake wants it to run, but some organizations can't or won't move data into the Cloud for a variety of reasons, data sovereignty, compliance security policies, culture, you know, whatever. So data can remain in place On-prem, or it can be moved into the Public Cloud with this new announcement. Now, the compute today presumably is going to be done in the Public Cloud. I don't know where else it's going to be done. They really didn't talk about the compute side of things. Remember, one of Snowflake's early innovations was to separate compute from storage. And what that gave them is you could more efficiently scale with unlimited resources when you needed them. And you could shut off the compute when you don't need us. You didn't have to buy, and if you need more storage you didn't have to buy more compute and vice versa. So everybody in the industry has copied that including AWS with Redshift, although as we've reported not as elegantly as Snowflake did. RedShift's more of a storage tiering solution which minimizes the compute required but you can't really shut it off. And there are companies like Vertica with Eon Mode that have enabled this capability to be done On-prem, you know, but of course in that instance you don't have unlimited elastic compute scale on-Prem but with solutions like Dell Apex and HPE GreenLake, you can certainly, you can start to simulate that Cloud elasticity On-prem. I mean, it's not unlimited but it's sort of gets you there. According to a Dell Snowflake joint statement, the companies the quote, the companies will pursue product integrations and joint go to market efforts in the second half of 2022. So that's a little vague and kind of benign. It's not really clear when this is going to be available based on that statement from the two first, but, you know, we're left wondering will Dell develop an On-Prem compute capability and enable queries to run locally maybe as part of an extended apex offering? I mean, we don't know really not sure there's even a market for that but it's probably a good bet that again, Snowflake wants that data to land in the Snowflake data Cloud kind of makes you wonder how this deal came about. You heard Sloop on earlier Snowflake has always been pretty dogmatic about getting data into its native snowflake format to enable the best performance as we talked about but also data sharing and governance. But you could imagine that data architects they're building out their data mesh we've reported on this quite extensively and their data fabric and those visions around that. And they're probably telling Snowflake, Hey if you want to be a strategic partner of ours you're going to have to be more inclusive of our data. That for whatever reason we're not putting in your Cloud. So Snowflake had to kind of hold its nose and capitulate. Now the good news is it further opens up Snowflakes Tam the total available market. It's obviously good marketing posture. And ultimately it provides an on ramp to the Cloud. And we're going to come back to that shortly but let's look a little deeper into what's happening with data platforms and to do that we'll bring in some ETR data. Now, let me just say as companies like Dell, IBM, Cisco, HPE, Lenovo, Pure and others build out their hybrid Clouds. The cold hard fact is not only do they have to replicate the Cloud Operating Model. You will hear them talk about that a lot, but they got to do that. So it, and that's critical from a user experience but in order to gain that flywheel momentum they need to build a robust ecosystem that goes beyond their proprietary portfolios. And, you know, honestly they're really not even in the first inning most companies and for the likes of Snowflake to sort of flip this, they've had to recognize that not everything is moving into the Cloud. Now, let's bring up the next slide. One of the big areas of discussion at Dell Tech World was Apex. That's essentially Dell's nascent as a service offering. Apex is infrastructure as a Service Cloud On-prem and obviously has the vision of connecting to the Cloud and across Clouds and out to the Edge. And it's no secret that database is one of the most important ingredients of infrastructure as a service generally in Cloud Infrastructure specifically. So this chart here shows the ETR data for data platforms inside of Dell accounts. So the beauty of ETR platform is you can cut data a million different ways. So we cut it. We said, okay, give us the Cloud platforms inside Dell accounts, how are they performing? Now, this is a two dimensional graphic. You got net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and what ETR now calls Overlap formally called Market Share which is a measure of pervasiveness in the survey. That's on the horizontal axis that red dotted line at 40% represents highly elevated spending on the Y. The table insert shows the raw data for how the dots are positioned. Now, the first call out here is Snowflake. According to ETR quote, after 13 straight surveys of astounding net scores, Snowflake has finally broken the trend with its net score dropping below the 70% mark among all respondents. Now, as you know, net score is measured by asking customers are you adding the platform new? That's the lime green in the bar that's pointing from Snowflake in the graph and or are you increasing spend by 6% or more? That's the forest green is spending flat that's the gray is you're spend decreasing by 6% or worse. That's the pinkish or are you decommissioning the platform bright red which is essentially zero for Snowflake subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score. Now, what's somewhat interesting is that snowflakes net score overall in the survey is 68 which is still huge, just under 70%, but it's net score inside the Dell account base drops to the low sixties. Nonetheless, this chart tells you why Snowflake it's highly elevated spending momentum combined with an increasing presence in the market over the past two years makes it a perfect initial data platform partner for Dell. Now and in the Ford versus Ferrari dynamic. That's going on between the likes of Dell's apex and HPE GreenLake database deals are going to become increasingly important beyond what we're seeing with this recent Snowflake deal. Now noticed by the way HPE is positioned on this graph with its acquisition of map R which is now part of HPE Ezmeral. But if these companies want to be taken seriously as Cloud players, they need to further expand their database affinity to compete ideally spinning up databases as part of their super Clouds. We'll come back to that that span multiple Clouds and include Edge data platforms. We're a long ways off from that. But look, there's Mongo, there's Couchbase, MariaDB, Cloudera or Redis. All of those should be on the short list in my view and why not Microsoft? And what about Oracle? Look, that's to be continued on maybe as a future topic in a, in a Breaking Analysis but I'll leave you with this. There are a lot of people like John Furrier who believe that Dell is playing with fire in the Snowflake deal because he sees it as a one way ticket to the Cloud. He calls it a one way door sometimes listen to what he said this past week. >> I would say that that's a dangerous game because we've seen that movie before, VMware and AWS. >> Yeah, but that we've talked about this don't you think that was the right move for VMware? >> At the time, but if you don't nurture the relationship AWS will take all those customers ultimately from VMware. >> Okay, so what does the data say about what John just said? How is VMware actually doing in Cloud after its early missteps and then its subsequent embracing of AWS and other Clouds. Here's that same XY graphic spending momentum on the Y and pervasiveness on the X and the same table insert that plots the dots and the, in the breakdown of Dell's net score granularity. You see that at the bottom of the chart in those colors. So as usual, you see Azure and AWS up and to the right with Google well behind in a distant third, but still in the mix. So very impressive for Microsoft and AWS to have both that market presence in such elevated spending momentum. But the story here in context is that the VMware Cloud on AWS and VMware's On-Prem Cloud like VMware Cloud Foundation VCF they're doing pretty well in the market. Look, at HPE, gaining some traction in Cloud. And remember, you may not think HPE and Dell and VCF are true Cloud but these are customers answering the survey. So their perspective matters more than the purest view. And the bad news is the Dell Cloud is not setting the world on fire from a momentum standpoint on the vertical axis but it's above the line of zero and compared to Dell's overall net score of 20 you could see it's got some work to do. Okay, so overall Dell's got a pretty solid net score to you know, positive 20, as I say their Cloud perception needs to improve. Look, Apex has to be the Dell Cloud brand not Dell reselling VMware. And that requires more maturity of Apex it's feature sets, its selling partners, its compensation models and it's ecosystem. And I think Dell clearly understands that. I think they're pretty open about that. Now this includes partners that go beyond being just sellers has to include more tech offerings in the marketplace. And actually they got to build out a marketplace like Cloud Platform. So they got a lot of work to do there. And look, you've got Oracle coming up. I mean they're actually kind of just below the magic 40% in the line which is pro it's pretty impressive. And we've been telling you for years, you can hate Oracle all you want. You can hate its price, it's closed system all of that it's red stack shore. You can say it's legacy. You can say it's old and outdated, blah, blah, blah. You can say Oracle is irrelevant in trouble. You are dead wrong. When it comes to mission critical workloads. Oracle is the king of the hill. They're a founder led company that knows exactly what it's doing and they're showing Cloud momentum. Okay, the last point is that while Microsoft AWS and Google have major presence as shown on the X axis. VMware and Oracle now have more than a hundred citations in the survey. You can see that on the insert in the right hand, right most column. And IBM had better keep the momentum from last quarter going, or it won't be long before they get passed by Dell and HP in Cloud. So look, John might be right. And I would think Snowflake quietly agrees that this Dell deal is all about access to Dell's customers and their data. So they can Hoover it into the Snowflake Data Cloud but the data right now, anyway doesn't suggest that's happening with VMware. Oh, by the way, we're keeping an eye close eye on NetApp who last September ink, a similar deal to VMware Cloud on AWS to see how that fares. Okay, let's wrap with some closing thoughts on what this deal means. We learned a lot from the Cloud generally in AWS, specifically in two pizza teams, working backwards, customer obsession. We talk about flywheel all the time and we've been talking today about marketplaces. These have all become common parlance and often fundamental narratives within strategic plans investor decks and customer presentations. Cloud ecosystems are different. They take both competition and partnerships to new heights. You know, when I look at Azure service offerings like Apex, GreenLake and similar services and I see the vendor noise or hear the vendor noise that's being made around them. I kind of shake my head and ask, you know which movie were these companies watching last decade? I really wish we would've seen these initiatives start to roll out in 2015, three years before AWS announced Outposts not three years after but Hey, the good news is that not only was Outposts a wake up call for the On-Prem crowd but it's showing how difficult it is to build a platform like Outposts and bring it to On-Premises. I mean, Outpost isn't currently even a rounding era in the marketplace. It really doesn't do much in terms of database support and support of other services. And, you know, it's unclear where that that is going. And I don't think it has much momentum. And so the Hybrid Cloud Vendors they've had time to figure it out. But now it's game on, companies like Dell they're promising a consistent experience between On-Prem into the Cloud, across Clouds and out to the Edge. They call it MultCloud which by the way my view has really been multi-vendor Chuck, Chuck Whitten. Who's the new co-COO of Dell called it Multi-Cloud by default. (laughing) That's really, I think an accurate description of that. I call this new world Super Cloud. To me, it's different than MultiCloud. It's a layer that runs on top of hyperscale infrastructure kind of hides the underlying complexity of the Cloud. It's APIs, it's primitives. And it stretches not only across Clouds but out to the Edge. That's a big vision and that's going to require some seriously intense engineering to build out. It's also going to require partnerships that go beyond the portfolios of companies like Dell like their own proprietary stacks if you will. It's going to have to replicate the Cloud Operating Model and to do that, you're going to need more and more deals like Snowflake and even deeper than Snowflake, not just in database. Sure, you'll need to have a catalog of databases that run in your On-Prem and Hybrid and Super Cloud but also other services that customers can tap. I mean, can you imagine a day when Dell offers and embraces a directly competitive service inside of apex. I have trouble envisioning that, you know not with their historical posture, you think about companies like, you know, Nutanix, you know, or Cisco where they really, you know those relationships cooled quite quickly but you know, look, think about it. That's what AWS does. It offers for instance, Redshift and Snowflake side by side happily and the Redshift guys they probably hate Snowflake. I wouldn't blame them, but the EC Two Folks, they love them. And Adam SloopesKy understands that ISVs like Snowflake are a key part of the Cloud ecosystem. Again, I have a hard time envisioning that occurring with Dell or even HPE, you know maybe less so with HPE, but what does this imply that the Edge will allow companies like Dell to a reach around on the Cloud and somehow create a new type of model that begrudgingly accommodates the Public Cloud but drafts of the new momentum of the Edge, which right now to these companies is kind of mostly telco and retail. It's hard to see that happening. I think it's got to evolve in a more comprehensive and inclusive fashion. What's much more likely is companies like Dell are going to substantially replicate that Cloud Operating Model for the pieces that they own pieces that they control which admittedly are big pieces of the market. But unless they're able to really tap that ecosystem magic they're not going to be able to grow much beyond their existing install bases. You take that lime green we showed you earlier that new adoption metric from ETR as an example, by my estimates, AWS and Azure are capturing new accounts at a rate between three to five times faster than Dell and HPE. And in the more mature US and mere markets it's probably more like 10 X and a major reason is because of the Cloud's robust ecosystem and the optionality and simplicity of transaction that that is bringing to customers. Now, Dell for its part is a hundred billion dollar revenue company. And it has the capability to drive that kind of dynamic. If it can pivot its partner ecosystem mindset from kind of resellers to Cloud services and technology optionality. Okay, that's it for now? Thanks to my colleagues, Stephanie Chan who helped research topics for Breaking Analysis. Alex Myerson is on the production team. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and Rob Hof, on editorial they helped get the word out and thanks to Jordan Anderson for the new Breaking Analysis branding and graphics package. Remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you do is search Breaking Analysis podcasts. You could check out ETR website @etr.ai. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You want to get in touch. @dave.vellente @siliconangle.com. You can DM me @dvellante. You can make a comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of a new era and database management brought to you by Nutanix. >>Welcome back. I'm still minimum and we're covering Nutanix Is New Era database launch Of course, we had to do instead of conversation with Monica Ambala talking about era to Dato and to dig into it a little bit further. We have some new tennis guests as well as what? One of their close partners. So going across the channel, first of all, happy to welcome to the program. Uh, the new kid UPA she is the gsc strategy and go to market with Nutanix sitting in the middle chair we have on and Akila whose product marketing leader with Nutanix and then from HCL happy to welcome to the program Tasing who is the senior vice president with HCL Technologies. I mentioned all three of you. Thank you so much for joining us. >>Glad to be here, >>right? Uh they knew What? Why don't we start with you? You handle the relationship between Nutanix and HCL. As I said, some exciting announcements database services help us understand how Ah partner like HCL takes the technology and what will help bring it to market. >>Let me start by thanking used to for this opportunity. Head Seal is a very significant partner for Nutanix and we've had this partnership for a long time now. It's one of our long standing partnership. Over the five years we've closed over 100 accounts across all three theaters. Trained professionals both on the Nutanix side on the outside, on built a 3 60 relationships so we can deliver the best experience around solutions to our partners. In the very recent announcement, we're looking to build a database as a service offering. With that CL we want Thio leverage are intelligent technology that allows us to simplify off and increase operating efficiency. Andi Couple it with head seals ability to offer world class services on it. It's a scale to reach the go to market needs needed right. We're very confident that the solution is going to drive significant incremental business for both our companies. >>Excellent taste. We would love to hear from your standpoint. What is it that excites you? We we know HCL knows the data space real well. So I think you've got some customers that air looking to take advantage of some of these new offerings. >>Yeah, So if you look at where the focus has been so far, most of the focus is on taking applications to cloud and moving them from VM two probably containers one of the most. Uh, I won't say, uh, neglected, but the space that needs to change now is the entire database space on. If you look at how customers are managing databases today, they have taken hardware on a KPIX model. They have the operating system and the database licenses on L. A model from the E. M s on. Then they have, ah, teams which are siloed depending upon the database technology that is there in the environment and managing that I think that whole model is has to change, enabling customers to transform Onda accelerate the digital transformation journey on. That is where our offering off database as a service ises very unique because it offers a full stack off services which includes right from hardware and all the way to operations on a completely utility model powered by the Nutanix era. >>Yeah, on it might make sense if you could give us a little bit of a broader context for your users. Some of the data that you have around this offering, >>yeah, you know, attend effect. All the solution, our joint solutions. Our customers, uh, they are trying to deliver the best individual experience, right? That's at the heart of it. What they're trying to do, I'll give you a couple of customer examples. For example, Arbil Bank in India. You know, they deployed their database solutions and applications, and Nutanix got 16 fasters application response. That means like they used to take 180 seconds. Uh, Thio logging into the application. And now it's, uh, 20 seconds, 36 times faster. Another example I could give. I can give many examples, but when this one is really interesting, Delaware Valley community held, you know, at the time of Kobe they went remote. They started working from home and they had medical systems applications. EMR electronic medical record applications and used to take even before they were working from home, is take like 171 seconds to log into medical systems before they could, you know, talk to their patients and look at their, you know, health results and everything and that from 171 seconds, it went to 19 seconds. So these are some of the values that customers seeing when it comes to delivering the individual experience to their customers. >>Yeah, absolutely. We've seen police stage go ahead. >>Yeah, and I just had to What men? Who said that? It's also the ability tohave self service with dynamic provisioning capability that really brings the value toe the to the I T teams and to the application teams who are consuming these services. So we have cases where customers were waiting for about a week, 10 days for the environments to be provisioned to them. And now it's a matter of seconds or minutes where they can have a full fledged environments leading to develop a productivity. And that also really adds the whole acceleration that we just spoke about. >>Yeah, we we've absolutely seen such a transformation in database for the longest time. It was, you know, a database. It didn't change too much. That's what everything run on Now there's a lot of flexibility. Open source is a big piece of what's going on there. I'd like to come back to you and you know, they know. I know you're gonna want to chime in here. You know, HCL doesn't just, you know, take this off the shelf and, you know, resell it, help us understand. You know what is unique about the offering that that HCL brings market? Uh, with with >>Nutanix. Right. So one is that we have standardized reference architectures, which really x ray the time to consume the offering. We're not building anything from from from ground up. Three Nutanix is also part off our velocity framework, which helps customers deploy software defined infrastructure as the as a foundation element for their for their private cloud. Now, what is unique is also the ability toe not only provide operations on different databases that are there in the environment on a completely utility model, but also help customers, you know, move to cloud and adopt the database clouded of databases and then manage the whole show seamlessly using using the BP platform and that really, you know, if you look at the trend that is there, there's a short term impact on the long term impact off transformation. In the short term, there's hardly an industry which is not touched by by covert on most of our customers are either looking at cost or initiatives or are looking at ah platform, which will help them in a weight or find new business model to to sail through. In the long term, we strongly believe that the customers will be in a hybrid, multi cloud world where they will still have the heritage environments. The article and the Sequels on a lot off cloud native data business will also start coming into picture. How do you manage is also seamlessly is what will be the next challenge for for most of the customers. And that's where we come in, along with Nutanix, to solve the problem. >>Well, very simply put right, we have different categories of customers. One off them refers to buy the ingredients and make their own meal on some really large customers, and global customers prefer to buy the meal and pay for it on on as consumer basis. What that seal does is take era, which simplifies a lot of the database operations, puts it into a full stack solution and gives the customer the full stack solution. Everything from assessing that environment to deploying, to making sure that the designers I accurate and then of course, the day and through they do through and, uh, uh, environment, right. So literally the customer can Now I'll offload any off their data center, our database management and operation to hit cl from my perspective on do rest assured, run their projects toe, etc. Also, excel becomes their extended arm, the beauty off. It is also like working with dead C. Elgar now able to offer the entire solution on a pay as you go model or pay as you use model, which is very relevant to the existing times where everybody is trying to cut their Catholics costs and and optimized on the utilization. >>Well, great. Great to hear about that. You've mentioned that this partnership has been for many years, so I know you've got plenty of joint customers. Anything specifically could share about these new offerings on. And I know you've got a lot of the customer stories there. Maybe you could start would look love, freedom. The rest of you, >>Thio, I'll start what? You know, Like I talked about a couple of customers. But recently I'm really excited about. And this is something that to be a announcing today as well. Ah, study that we did with Forrester called Forrester T I study, which is what it means total economic impact study. And what they do is that they topped with customers, uh, interviewed them, four of them. And based on their experience, uh, you know what? They observe what kind of benefit they got, what challenges they had, what was cause they built an economic model. And based on that economic model, they found that customers were rolled all off them were able to get their payback within six months. So Bala talked about it earlier that, you know, like all the great experience, all the great value that we offer, but at a very, very good cost. So the six less than six months payback was used and the r y for the three years period and again, this is ah, model based on four enterprises was 2 91 100% almost like three times mawr. So whatever they invested, I think on an average day the cost was 2.3 million and the benefit was nine million or so so huge value customers have observed already. And with this new launch, I believe that it will just go to the next level. All the things about provisioning copy data saving that the stories All of that adds to the R Y that I'm talking about and our joint customers with SCL or otherwise, who are customers who are running their applications, their business critical applications on you can X Platform managed by era an era is built out off a bunch off best practices that over time that we have done. I talked about custom performance earlier, and a lot of the performance comes from fine tuning. You do that like a lot of tea tuning and to get to the right kind of performance. Uh, era comes with that, those best practices. So when your provisioning an application, you know, it gives you you don't have to do all that tuning. So that's the value customers are experiencing. And I'm really excited about the joint customers what they could experience and benefit out off the new expanded solution. >>Great Tiger. Any other customer examples that you'd like to share? >>Well, we got a lot of go ahead page, >>but it's okay. >>No, I was just saying that we've had a lot of success with Head cl across the board anywhere from data center organization Thio v. D. I. We had a very large manufacturing company in America where we partner together. They have a huge number of sub brands. We partnered together to go evaluate that environment and then also even that is a B infrastructure with databases. It's a relatively new offering we're announcing today. But we're leveraging the expertise that SCL has in the market, uh, to go to go deeper into that market with cl eso. I will leave it to page to give us the NCL examples. >>So one thing that is happening is the very definition off infrastructure and infrastructure operation itself is changing. So a couple of years ago, for many of our customers, it was about operating system management, hardware management, network management and all the use. Uh, the concept that you're going back to customer is about platform operations. That means everything to do with application operations. Downward is going to be done by one integrated unit. Now, with Nutanix, we can we can really bring a lot of change, and we're bringing a lot of change in our in the operations model for for lot off a large customers where earlier you had siloed teams around Compute network storage, offering system databases both at the Level two and level three, and you had a level one, which was basically command center. Now, we're saying is that with the artificial intelligence and machine learning driven OBS, you can practically eliminate the need for command center on the level two layer because the platform enables you toe be multi skilled. You need not have siloed engineers looking after databases separately on and operating system separately. You can have the same sort of people who are cross train, multi skilled, looking at the entire state. On at level three. You may want to keep people who are deep into databases as a separate team, then from people who are managing the Nutanix platform, which is a combination off compute storage and and and and the SCN. So that's the change that we're bringing. A lot of our customers were going about infrastructure, platform modernization, Azaz, the public cloud or hybrid clubs. >>Well, I think you're really articulated well, that modernization journey we've seen so many companies going through. The thing I've been saying with Nutanix for years is modernize the platform, then you can modernize everything that runs on top of it. All the applications on, of course, did databases a major piece of this on. And that brings up a point I want to get your take on. We haven't talked about developers, you know, the DEV ops trend. Something we've seen, you know, huge growth for for a number of years. So what >>does this >>mean from developers? This something that you know, mostly the infrastructure team's gonna handle. Or how do you bridge that gap to the people that really are? You know, building and building and building the APS. >>Yeah. And in this digital world, you know the cycle time from idea to production. Everyone is trying to reduce that. What that means is that things are moving left. People are trying to develop and test early in the life cycle when it is easy to find a problem and easy to and cheaper to fix. Right. So for that, you need a your application environment, your application and database available to test and develop in, uh, you know, like in volume. And that's where databases the service era helps developers and develops professionals to provision in the whole infrastructure for testing and involvement in hundreds and thousands of them at the same time without, you know, worrying about the storage back back and how much story it is consuming. So it is. It helps developers to to really expedite their development and testing left lifecycle ultimately resulting in excellent and unique experience. >>Yeah, absolutely way no. Of just moving faster. Being able to respond to the business so critically important. Uh, they know Tasia wanna let you have the final word Talk about the partnership and what we should expect, you know, in the coming months and quarters. >>So, uh, I'll go first. And then we can come in, uh, a salon and Nutanix you to share the same values where we believe that we need to provide a very innovative platform for our customers to accelerate their digital transformation journey. No matter what it is right, we share common values and way have a 3 60 degree relationship. It started way back in 2015 and we have come a long way since then. A C also does engineering services for for Nutanix, and we have closed about 850 r plus people who has prayed and 35 on Nutanix Solutions. Providing manage services to our customers on Nutanix is also part off our software defined infrastructure portfolio on we're taking it to our customers as part of our entire infrastructure platform modernization that, I suppose talk about earlier three recent announcement off Nutanix clusters running on AWS. I think it's a significant announcement and it will provide a lot off options to our customers. And as an S, I, uh, you know, we are able to bring a lot of value to our customers. We're looking at adopting cloud the database as a service offering. I think we're very excited about it. I I think we have about 300 plus customers, and many of them are still stuck with the way they are managing databases the old way. And we can bring in a lot of value to those customers, whether it is about reducing cars or increasing agility or helping them modern ice, The platform one ended up hybrid multi club >>business critical lapse are growing, are still growing, and data is pretty much gold in these scenarios, right? It's it's doubling every two years, if not more with every transaction being remote today with zeal. We actually look forward to addressing that market and optimizing the environment for our customers. Both of our companies believe in partnership crossed and the customer first mindset. And when you have that belief, trust comes with delivering the best experience to our customers. So we're looking forward to this partnership and you're looking forward to growing our joint revenue and modernizing our customers platforms with this often? >>Well, I wanna thank all three of you for for sharing the exciting news. Absolutely. It looks like a strong partnership. Lots of potential there for the future. So thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for >>having thank you. Mhm. >>All right, when I think the audience were watching this lot with Nutanix, the new era in database management personally, a big thank you to the Nutanix community has been a pleasure being able to host these interviews with Nutanix for for many years. So I'm still minimum and thank you as always for watching the Cube

>> Announcer: Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE. Covering AnsibleFest 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back everyone it's theCUBE's live coverage here in Atlanta, Georgia for Red Hat's AnsibleFest. #AnsibleFest, check out all the commentary on Twitter. Of course, we're here for two days, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Our next guest is Mary Johnston Turner, Research VP Cloud Management International Data Corp IDC. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> So IT operations has been an evolving thing. AI and automation really changing the landscape of this data equation. IT operations used to be, "Hey, you go to IT ops, no problem." Now with the world changing to be more software-driven, software-led, a lot's changed. What's your take? What's your research say about the IT ops landscape? >> Well, I mean, you have to put it in the context of what's going on generally with IT, right? I mean, we're clearly seeing DevOps, you know it's either in production or in large scale testing and the majority of enterprises. We've got lots and lots of containers and Kubernetes usage, we've got multiple clouds in just about every enterprise you talk to. It's, you know, well over 90%. And what that all means is that there's just a lot of change on a lot of different levels. And so that's kind of really put stress on traditional, operational approaches on task-oriented automation. you know, siloed approaches to control and monitoring. And what we're really starting to see is now a move to how to become more integrated, more unified and more collaborative across all these teams. And that's actually kind of driving to me for a new generation of monitoring automation and analytics kind of all put together. >> It's interesting how management software has always been part of every IT conversation we've had in over the past decades. And, but recently if you look up the evolution of cloud and hybrid multi-cloud, you mentioned that. CloudOne, Dot, Amazon, public cloud, pretty straightforward to comprehend. Start-up start there. But this whole other cloud paradigm is shifting has taken these categories like network management, turned them into observability. Five companies go public and M&A activity booming. Automation similar kind of vibe to it here. It's got this management piece to it that used to be this white space. Now the aperture seems to be increasing. What's your take on this? Because we're trying to make sense of it. Customers are trying to figure it out, obviously. They've been doing configuration management. But now they got scale, they got some of the things you mentioned. What's this automation category look like or is it a category? >> I don't know if it's a category or not but it's certainly a thing, right? I think what we're seeing with automation is historically, it was very individual driven. It was, "I have a problem", right? I have to configure something or deploy something and I could whip up a script, you know, do a little code and it worked for me and it wasn't documented and that was great, you know. And I think what we're happening now with just the way applications are being architected, I mean, you're moving to very modular, microservices-based approach to applications, the way they're deployed. All the dependencies across all the different tiers from network to storage to public cloud to private cloud. It's really very, very difficult to rely on a bunch of ad hoc tools to do that. And so I think what's happened with automation is it's expanding up to become as much a business collaboration platform, as it is just sort of a task, feeds and speeds sort of control platform. We're kind of in the middle of that evolution. Even, you know, two years ago I don't think you saw the kinds of analytics, you know, and machine learning and AI that we're now starting to see come in as an overlay to the automation environment. >> Mary, one of the things we've been talking about for the last couple of years is that great buzz word of digital transformation. The real driver for that is I need to be a data driven organization, not just ad hoc things. So where does automation fit into that broader discussion of, you know, changing operational models like you were talking about? >> Well I think, you know done right, it can really be a platform for collaboration and accelerating digital transformation across the enterprise. Because rather than having, you know, each team have to do their own thing and then do a manual hand off or a big change control meeting, you know, these things just don't scale and move quick enough in today's environments. Particularly if you're trying to update your applications every five minutes, right? So, I think the collaboration, the different teams and also a creative environment where you can have more generalists too, right? you know, there's collaboration across IT ops and DevOps and sort of the lines start to blur. >> Yeah, you mentioned the word platform and we were talking to the Ansible team, they were very specific as to how they chose that for customers out there. You know, choosing a platform is a bit of a commitment. It's not just a tactical, "We're going to do this." What's your thoughts on the Ansible automation platform and what feedback do you have to customers as to how they're deciding which platforms and how many platforms that they'll develop on? >> Yeah, it's a really interesting conversation. I mean, I think one of the things that the Ansible team's really focusing on that's important is the modularity. The fact that you can plug and play and kind of grow over time. And also that it's a very software-driven paradigm with the automation artifacts under source control. Which again is kind of different for a lot of ops teams. They don't have that notion of Git and software development all the time. So I think that having a platform approach that still allows a fair amount of modularity integration, and it lets different parts of the organization decide over time how much they want to participate in a very curated, consistent integration. And at the same time, at least in the Ansible world, because of the way it's architected, they can still have modules that call out to other automation, you know, solutions that are in the environment. So it's not an all or nothing, and I think that's really, really important. And it's also a platform for analytics. I'm sorry, but data, you know, about what's going on with the automation. >> The data's critical, but we had mentioned earlier on our previous interview with Red Hat folks and Stu and I's intro about the cloud and how the complexity that is being introduced, and you mentioned some of those earlier, the complexities are there. Of the automation solutions that you've seen, which one's having the most impact for customers? >> Well that, what do you mean by impact? There's such a, such a range of them. If you look in certainly the configuration, infrastructure as code space, obviously Ansible, there's a couple others. If you look into the CI/CD space, right? I mean there's a whole set of very optimized CI/CD tools out there that are very important to the DevOps environment. And, again, you'll see integrations between the infrastructure and the CI/CD, and they're all kind of blurring. And then you've got very specific, almost domain controllers, whether they're for hardware or converged infrastructure-type platforms, or whether they're for public clouds. And those don't go away, right? You still need something that understands the lower level system. And so, I think what we're seeing is organizations trying to reduce the number of individual siloed automation tools they've got, but they're still probably going to have more than one to do the full stack with something, you know, acting as kind of a policy-driven control plane in analytics-driven control plane in the middle. >> So, you've still got to run the plumbing. >> Right, exactly. >> You've still got to run the system now. >> Yeah, I mean something like 70 to 80% of the customers we talk to that are using one or more of the big public clouds, they're also using a fair amount of control tooling that's provided by those cloud vendors. And those aren't going to go away, because, you know, it's just like a hardware system. You got to have the drivers, right? You got to have the core, but you've got to be able to again have the process flow across it that's really important. >> What's your take on the market place shaking out the winners and losers? Because I know you like to track the marketplace from a research standpoint. It just seems that all the events we go to at theCube, everyone's jockeying for the control plane. >> They are. >> Or something. The control plane of the data. We're the control plane for the management. So, the control plane, meaning horizontally scalable, much more platform-centric. You're starting to see kind of a systems thinking coming back into the enterprise versus the siloed IT, but this illustrious control plane, (Mary laughing) I mean, how many control planes can there be? What's your take on all this craziness? >> That's a good question. I mean again, I think there is a difference between sort of the driver level, right? Which it used to be, again, those scripts. They were kind of like drivers, right? That's almost becoming just the playing field. You've got to have those integrations. You've got to have a nice modular way to architect that. What really is going to be the control plane is the data. It's the metrics around what are you doing. It's the performance, it's the security, and being able to actually optimize a lot of the SLOs that go along with that. That's really where the, you know, being able to do a good thing with the data, and tie it to the business and the app is where the real control is going to be. >> Mary, how's Ansible doing as a business? We saw a lot of proof points in the keynote about the community growth, obviously, adoption is up. But, anything you can share about how, you know, they've been doing really about four years into the Red Hat acquisition? >> Well they're, I mean, they're growing pretty effectively. They, I think this whole category is growing, and so they're benefiting quite a lot from that. I think we are seeing really strong growth in the partner communities. Particularly here at this show we are seeing some really, you know, larger and larger scale partnerships, more and more investment. And I think that is really important, because ultimately for a technology like this to scale, it's got to become embedded in all kinds of solutions. So, I look at much as the partner adoption as a good sign as anything. >> Well it's, you know, I guess two things. One is, the whole market's growing. Is Ansible doing better or worse than that? And what is the impact of those cloud-native tooling that you mentioned is, you know, I looked there's kind of Red Hat, the Ansible traditional competition, which was more in the infrastructure management space and now, yes, they do containerization, and work more in the cloud environment. They're kind of spanning between those environments. >> Well, I think, you know, again I see most organizations using multiple tools. I think, from a revenue and growth rate, I can't really get into it, because, as you know, Ansible is actually part of Red Hat, and Red Hat doesn't report out numbers at that level. But we see certainly see a lot of adoption. And we see Ansible, you know, at least if not the primary, as one of the major tools in more and more organizations. And that's across compute, storage, network, very, very popular in the network space, and then growing. Probably not quite as strong, but growing interest in like security and IoT. >> It's interesting you mention the numbers and how Ansible is now part of Red Hat. When Red Hat bought Ansible a couple years ago, I think the year before Stu and I were talking about how configuration management automation was going to come. We kind of saw it, but one of the things that in the community and Red Hat had publicly talked about is, Red Hat didn't screw it up. They kind of got it right, they kept them alone. They grew organically and this organic growth is kind of a forcing function for these new things. Are you happy with what Red Hat has done here with Ansible and this platform? What's your take on this platform? Because platforms have to enable. Good things and value. >> I think you're right. Ansible grew very virally and organically for a long time, but you kind of hit a wall with that at some point. I think they rightly recognized that they needed to have the kind of tooling, the kind of metrics, the kind of hub and modularity that would allow it to go the next level. So, I'm actually really encouraged by this announcement, and I think it also, again, it positions it I think to make partner driven-solutions much more easily standardized. It opens up, probably more ways for people to contribute to the communities. So I think it's really positive. >> And as a platform, if it's enabling value, what kind of value propositions do you see emerging? 'Cause you've got the content collections, the automation hub, automation analytics. Is it just bolting onto RHEL as value? What is some of the value that you might see coming out of the Ansible automation platform? >> Oh, well I mean Ansible's always been very agnostic. It's always been its own business which certainly can compliment RHEL. There's RHEL rolls and all kinds of stuff. But that's not really the focal point for Ansible. Ansible really is about providing that modular consistent automation approach that can span all these different operational domains, and really reach into the business process. So, I think it's great for the Red Hat portfolio, but now as we start to see them building bridges into the bigger IBM portfolio, you know, we haven't had a lot of IBM/Ansible announcements yet, but I would expect that we're going to see more over time. I think the OpenShift Operator integrations are going to be important as part of the things that IBM is doing with OpenShift. So, I think there's more to come. >> Mary, I wonder what your research finds regarding open source consumption in general. You know, how many of the customers out there are just using the free community addition? You know, Red Hat's very clear, you know, they are not, the open source is not Red Hat's business model. It is the way that they work. >> Mary: It's a development model. >> It's their development model. So, any general comments about open source, and specifically around Ansible, kind of the community free edition versus paid. >> Well, it's obviously been an interesting week in open source world with, not Red Hat, but some other vendors getting a little bit of flack for some of the choices they've made about their business practices. I think, you know, there are many, many organizations that continue to get started with unpaid, unsupported open source. What typically happens is if it gets to a critical mass within a company, at some point they're going to say, either I have to invest a lot of people and time and do all the testing, hardening, integration, tracking the security updates you know, and they're still never going to get notified directly from intel when there's a problem, right? So, I think many organizations as they, if they decide this is mission critical then they start to look for supported editions. And we've done a lot of research looking at the benefits of getting that level of support and typically, it's just 50 to 60% improvements and, you know, stability, security, time-to-market because you're not having to do all that work. So, its a trade-off, but you'll always have some, particularly smaller organizations, individual teams that they're not going to pay for it. But I think its scale is when it really becomes valuable. >> Mary, final question for you, for the folks watching that couldn't make the event or industry insiders that aren't in this area. Why is this AnsibleFest more important this year than ever before? What's the big story? What's the top thing happening now in this world? >> I mean, there's great energy here this year. And I've gone to a couple of these over the years. First of all, it's the biggest one they've ever had. I think really though, it's the story of collaboration, building teams, automating end-to-end processes. And that's really powerful, because it's very clear that the community has stepped up from just saying, I can do a great job with network automation, or I can do a great job with cloud or with server. And they're really saying, this is about transforming the organization. Making the organization more productive, making the business more agile. And I think that is a big step for Ansible. >> You know, I think that is a huge point. I think that's something that's really important, because you know, we've talked about capabilities before. It does this, it does that to your point. This is kind of a testament to the operationalizing of DevOps. 'Cause people have always been the bottleneck. So this seems to be the trend. Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah, I think so. And I also see, again, this community talking so much about upscaling the people. Embracing things like unit testing and source control. And it's a maturation of the whole automation conversation among this community. And remember, this community is only what? Six, seven years old? >> Stu: 2012. >> Yeah, I mean it's really a very, very young community. So I think it's a really important pivot point, just in terms of the scale of the problems they can address. >> Solve for abstractions. Solving big problem, automation will be a great category. Mary, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Sharing your insights and your research and your analysis. I appreciate it. >> Okay, thank you. >> Mary Johnston Turner Research VP of Cloud Management at IDC, here inside theCUBE. Breaking down the analysis of Red Hat's Ansible position vis-a-vis the market trends. It's theCUBE, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Del Technologies, World twenty nineteen here in Las Vegas. I'm Stew Minutemen with my co host, Dave Volonte, talking multi cloud talking about Del Technologies and all the pieces of the environment. And we're gonna drill in some to some of the storage environment. Happy to welcome back to the program. Ah, Sudhir Vossen, Who's the senior vice president and CEO of the storage division of Delhi? Emcee, Sit here. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks. Thanks for having me, Stew. >> All right, So, as I said, day one lot of the vision Digital transformation multi cloud with such an Adele up on stage. Got a little bit about today. Got back into the products, everything, you know, such a broad portfolio, everything from the latter tattooed, you know, business devices through Of course, many updates on the storage world Been digging in with the number your team gives little flavor as Teo, You know what you've been working on? You know, I know. As a CEO, you can't have a favorite family but in the family. But some of the things you and the team were really proud of to unveil >> Absolutely thanks. It's been a big day as well, and I would say a big year for us. So we, uh, we've shown incredible growth in our business in the last four quarters, taking share every four for every one of those four quarters. Just a phenomenal year. A lot of that has to do with just the strength of the portfolio. Have been investing a lot in innovation in the portfolio. So, uh, I think the biggest one today that I'm really proud of is the unity launch. Think it's, uh, it's a long time coming. We've been working on it for quite a while. The the amount of performance that is going to deliver while also delivering incredible storage efficiency data reduction. That's a huge, a huge boost. But what way haven't spent a whole lot of time talking about from a technology point of view as a Ziggy. What's cool about unity? X TV that you may not have heard a lot about is that it actually is using machine >> learning inside. So last year we lost the power Max that had machine learning inside for making all these real time decisions were taking that across the family and unity >> x t uses. Was she learning in order to actually do deliver that data reduction that we just talked about? The five to one data reduction. And what's why that school is Because, you know, we've had products that do data reduction with brute force where they use a lot of memory. You can't do that in a mid range part because that kicks you out of the cost profile. So we use machine learning, tio take advantage of a little amount of memory, but they still not compromise on the data reduction. >> Yeah, actually, I had to cover they should day talking about power, Max. We made a big deal about what was happening internally as well as what does that mean for the customers and the decisions that they don't have to make you know, in our industry, we've talked about intelligence and, you know, automation in storage for decades. So yeah, and then the mid range. What does that mean? What? What will be different from customers for as they roll out thie X t product line. So >> I think it's simplicity. It's just he's a fuse. We talk about zero touch in this case, this this fewer knobs and dials. You actually don't have to do a lot of tuning at all out of the box. It'LL will serve the majority of the use cases and the requirements. You still have the option if you want to go in. If you're sort of the black, no type and you want to do, uh, customize it to your own needs. You could do that. But that sort of this journey we're on is way. Call this the autonomous or self driving story, so a lot of people are talking about it. We're actually doing it across the portfolio, and it's actually coupled with two parts are coupled with another part. There's intelligence in Unity, Eckstine and Power Max. But there's also intelligence and cloud I. Q, which is our global Blake brain in the Cloud way, saw that on stage today as well, where it's doing long term analytics deeper, learning across longer time rises to help you manage the system without really much effort. >> So couple follow ups, if I may, on the on the data reduction front. Sounds like that's a new innovation. You guys develop come from scratch. Yeah. Um, you bringing it across the portfolio, or is it sort of obviously unity extra? Today it is. The technology apply to other potentially >> absolutely does. And in fact, that's Ah, that's something we're doing across the board from last year to this year. You you've seen with become one storage team, and there's a lot of technology views going on now inside the inside the portfolio. Things that we're doing in unstructured, for example, are we're looking at applying it into other parts of the portfolio. Data reduction is obviously one of the key ones. It's it's the first example that people think off, so we're definitely looking at that. But I'LL also say is from a technology point of view, we're changing the way software is built. We're not building it as monolithic within micro code anymore. It's containerized assets that we can embed in different products >> and then, in terms of the autonomous storage piece, you know, go roll back five, ten years ago, cheering, you know you had and you had a lot of knobs to turn and and that was always featured as an advantage because people wanted to play with it. What you're talking about today is a Zen environment that's much more complex and talk about Maur. What autonomous storages is it? Hands off on great >> questions. So we have this, this internal Carter almost of most. Joke, we call it. You know, we're talking my self driving cars. Surely we can build a self driving storage >> system. Why now, Right? It's it's It's kind of a shame that we're not doing that, but I would say it's four steps just like you have four levels of autonomy and self driving cars. If you follow that level five, I think, is the is the ultimate polio zero fully autonomous way. We'LL never get there, but similarly in storage, I break it up into four parts. One is it's got to be application aware you're not dealing with lungs and file systems and raid groups anymore you're dealing with. This is my application. That's how the human or the user interacts with it. That's easy. Relatively easy. Second element >> really took fifty years. Okay, good >> second, second element is is sort of self awareness are actually actually before. That is policy based. So if you're driving a car, you're not telling the car which which route you want to take. You want to say, I want to take the fastest route or I want to take the scenic route. That's it. And the car needs to figure out what that is. So that's policy based. I want to optimize for Leighton. See performance level. Third element is self awareness, which is story. System needs to know where it's operating in its comfort zone is that close to the edge is going to drive off the cliff. Is it gonna exit the lane to use the car analogies, right? He's You know how far away it is from the car ahead. That's also that's the stuff that we're now releasing with Bara Max and what we're doing. Immunity. That's where we using learning to figure out how close to the operating edge system itself. It's once you have that, then you can start optimizing self healing. >> That's a level four, and that self awareness. So you've got you've got decades of data. Were you able to leverage that data? Or is that is that not a cz much you. So you have >> absolutely the case. Okay, that's that's the key differentiator. Actually, thanks for bringing it up because there's a lot of washing going on. Right is everybody says that about you, but the eyes, one thing you can't just deliver develop over way have used all of the decades of dial home data we've been working on with she learning technologies for the last five years. I would say, at least so were those models are being trained with the dial home data and cloud, like you is doing that on a daily basis. Now, >> why now in two thousand nineteen? Severe is that we at the point where this has become reality is a compute power. Is that the amount of data? Just better algorithms. It's Do you >> think you nailed it? Those two things, it's It's first and foremost compute power. But also I think, uh, algorithms they they're they're much more sophisticated now. And they were well understood what algorithms to use for what types of problems. I think there was initial thirty years ago. There was like, uber intelligence. That was a very ambitious goal, I would say, even today, that's not reality. while we're succeeding is we're applying it to very focused problems, just like in the rest of the industry. Were playing through focus problems that we can't solve and then broadening our effort >> had to be clear. This is this is meta data. It's not customer data utilizing obviously across the portfolio. >> No way. We're looking at things like how much CPU it's using. How much memories? Using what? How's the Leighton Sea varying over time, how far it is away, this from its service level. Things like >> you're still just another advantage of being old. Yeah, so you talked >> about that's metadata. But what one of things we talk about is when you talk about digital transformation, it's customers become data driven, right? So wave covered this year, this the tenth year we've been at this show. In the early days it was storage and oh, my gosh, my growth of data and I can't take care of it. Big data was the bit flip of turned that from a challenge to I should be able to turn that into an opportunity city. And the next wave of a I is I should be able to monetize that run my business and the data is one of the most valuable things we have bring us inside. You know how that shift in thinking in data is impacting storage architectures and how you work with customers. >> That's awesome. Great questions. O Data Capital is the big thing around. You've heard that today as well. Wear definitely sort of growing. Going beyond thinking of ourselves as a storage division to a data division. And I'm locking the data capital. I'd say there's several elements wonders building the best storage fore fore data applications, especially I and M L. So I think our unstructured products clearly are leading the charge of this. We've got the machine learning solution with Isil on. It's a perfect fit for that kind of application that's here and now already using a GPU Technologies in conjunction with our scale, our architectures critical. But going beyond we're looking at doesn't make sense for some of these data crunching applications to be closer to the storage layer, you know, thinking meet similar to what hyper converse is done for general computer. Is that a thing that would that would really unlock the data capital? We think that's a lot of potentials. So >> and I'm glad you brought that up because you know, when the storage geeks, you know, talk about envy me, envy me over fabric and storage class memory. Explain how that fits into what you were talking about, and not just the next, you know, major wave of, you know, a tool inside the infrastructure >> train. So I think so. Storage. Envy me. Envy me over fabric was part one off a two part story, as is your You know that that allowed us to get that super Lolita C high speed connection from application to storage with the data. But the data devices themselves were still very flash is great prepared TV, but they're talking single microsecond type of sub microsecond applications that need that kind of leniency. And that's where storage last memory comes in. Right? So we're finally getting to that point where the storage devices are in operating in that ten microsecond range, which will start to really get us to back if we can get those things go located close by unlocks a lot of things. And the beauty of envy me over fabric is that it can give you the sense of being closed by without actually physically being close by. So you could still be disaggregated, and that opens up a whole lot of architectural options >> can fall. Question on storage class memory The skeptics would say. It's just way too expensive and you're not going to get the volume of flash that you get with these. Uh, what do you What do you think? >> That's what they said about Flash dude in there, >> last one in tow. Consumer devices, not you're on this scale. Bring the price down. >> Maybe maybe before iPhones. They said that, but iPhone was the catalyst. Eyes. They're a consumer analog for storage, club consumer >> and long. I think that's fair, but I think there will be volume to drive it down. However, I will say it's a fair point. I think that with actual magic lies and combining superfast, perhaps expensive storage last memory with cheaper flash storage, and so you almost have a hybrid solution again. So the old hybrid becomes you hybrids back in such >> fashion, even with solid state, >> the storage pyramid lives Exactly way. >> Think that's going to be the killer combination? >> All right, so sit here. Can't let you go without. Give us a little bit of a look, for we talked about where we are. Talk about some of the journeys that were there. So it's our tenth year here at the show. Come back for your eleven, you know, How do you foresee the industry maturing and moving forward? >> I think for your eleven, the big things we're going to see is Cloud Two things I would say one is CL Cloud and the other is software to find. I think those are the two that are going to be big news next year. >> We're seeing some sneak previews of that this year with the cloud announcements we made you'LL see a lot more of that next year from from the storage side, both in be part of the Delta Clock Technologies Cloud Platform but also cloud enabling our storage arrays across all the all public clouds. And then the second part is software defined. I think that's really the next way. So, as I said, we are a long journey internally. We've already been on it where were transforming our internal storage assets to be more software centric, and you'LL start to see some of that All right, well, >> sit here. Really appreciate you helping us geek out on, dig into, You know, a lot of the pieces here at Del Technology World twenty nineteen. Thank you. Alright. For David Dante, I'm stew minimum, and this is the end of two days of water wall coverage. We're coming back for one more. And as always, check out the cute dot net for all the videos. Silicon angle dot com For all the articles. Wiki bond dot com For all of the in depth analysis Hit up, Dave myself, John furry in the whole team were available on social media channels and, as always, thank you for watching the cue.

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin, on the ground, at SAPPHIRE NOW 2018 in the NetApp booth with Keith Townsend for the day. Keith and I are joined by Scott Feldman, the Global Head of SAP HANA and Leonardo Communities. Scott, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, great to be here. >> So, communities, plural. Why are... Tell us about the communities at SAP. Why is there specifically an SAP HANA community, before we get into Leonardo? >> Okay, well it's kinda fun because you saw one community and then they say, "Well, go do another community." So you do one, and it's like, okay do one. Do another one. So we have, at SAP, a global community that runs on the SAP.com platform. That's for everybody. That's for all customers, all partners, all analysts, everybody. That's normally called a SAP community. What we realized back in, around 2012 or 2013, is that we wanted to have a special place where our SAP HANA early adopter customers could go and join and network with each other on an online presence, right, and then have an opportunity to share their knowledge with each other and get more information from SAP. So we created a separate community on SAP HANA. It's actually a pretty easy URL, it's called SAPHANACommunity.com. It's pretty simple to remember. And now, we've doing this for about five, six years. >> So talk to us about what's unique about the HANA community outside of the technology. SAP Communities, in general's already pretty big, very active community. >> Correct. >> But what was the call out or what was the results of creating the HANA community? >> Great, and that's a great question. So what's really interesting about the SAP HANA community is that the topic and coverage of the content is specifically related to SAP HANA, data management, database tools and technologies, analytics, and other surrounding areas that are connected to that HANA platform as an anchor. So we have provided, over the past five years, almost 300, 300 webinars of content on SAP HANA technology. A lot of that content has come from SAP product managers, a lot of it's come from solution experts, partners as well, have provided content. And they're in the form of webinar frameworks as well as whitepapers and other content that's on there. Now, the people that join the community, which is all free by the way for the customers that join, are mainly our SAP customers. Now I'm proud to tell you, here and also SAPPHIRE 2018, we're here, we're over 6,100 or so members, globally, of the SAP HANA community. And what's really great about that is, you know, relative to some of the millions of numbers of people throughout for other communities, it seems like, you know, 6,000 plus is a small number. But you have to keep in mind that it's very targeted, right? So the people that are through the door, and our members of the community on the SAP HANA Jam, we have it on our SAP Jam site which is hosting the SAP cloud platform. These are people that really are interested in that topic. And they really wanna learn about SAP HANA and the technology surrounding SAP HANA. So they're very, very high-qualified, high-quality people. >> Very engaged, it sounds like. >> Absolutely. >> So, speaking of that, so this morning during Bill McDermott's keynote, he mentioned 23,000 HANA customers. >> Yes. >> You mentioned 6,000 actively engaging in your community. >> Yes. >> Collaboration was a big theme of this morning, talking about, this is not grandpa's CRM anymore, what SAP is doing to break that status quo. How influential are those customers engaging in the HANA community to its development and its evolution? >> That's a fantastic question. So what's happened is the community... Think of almost like a pyramid. So the community of the large, vast number of people who have joined the community for interest in topics have mostly consumed information, they are kinda the base line of the pyramid. Some of those customers have some great stories to tell. Okay, so what we did was we started a webinar series in 2013 called Spotlight. And I'll take credit for the name, actually, 'cause we call it the SAP HANA Spotlight. And essentially, what we're doing is, imagine the customer in a spotlight where they're sharing their journey. They're sharing their SAP HANA story and their journey. So we launched that a number of years ago and now we've done almost 80 separate HANA Spotlight webinars with customers that are sharing their stories. Well we even took it one step further beyond that. In 2013, some of the executives from our early adopting customers for SAP HANA, they came over to SAP and they said, "Gee, SAP, we're betting our career "and our company survival "on this new technology called SAP HANA," back in 2013. And they basically came to us and said, "I wanna have a council." So we wanna have a council of influence so that we have an opportunity to get together, share stories, share our journeys with each other, get to know who the other customers are that are also early adopters and are embarking on this journey with us together, and then, more importantly, to answer your question, feed that information back to SAP development so that we could, back at SAP, improve the product and come out with some additional features and functions and make it even better. Well that was 2013. Our very first meeting was up in Canada, in a suburb in Toronto, at one of our customer locations. We had 13 people in that meeting. Today, dial up six years, we're at over 750 members of an executive, so these are C-level VPS, senior IT, and chief architects that are in our community globally. We've done 24 meetings, I'm about to schedule the 25th meeting, and I've globalized that. And the customers, I thought they would've been tired of these kinds of meetings, they love it. They absolutely love it. So again, going back to that analogy, this is kind of the high peak point of the pyramid. We get the executives that are making these decisions and we talk about thought leadership. We don't talk about features and functionality. We do talk about road maps, we talk about investments that they need to make, and we anchor it again on the SAP HANA platform but we're bringing in other technologies and components like analytics or SAP Leonardo, right, or S/4 HANA, right. Now that it's announced, we'll bring in C/4 HANA. So we'll cover other topics as well, and of course the cloud platform. >> So you set it up, rinse and repeat, now we're at Leonardo. >> Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat. >> What is, first off, what is Leonardo? Great name, I love the name. But what is it? >> So SAP Leonardo is a methodology. It's an opportunity for our customers to co-design, co-invent, and get engaged in the design thinking process to understand how data, and we talked about this today, how we can, how data and how knowledge can enable an intelligent enterprise. And it's a process. So what people need to understand, and customers work with at SAP and they could go to the SAP Leonardo booth areas at the conferences and see as many testers as they wish. But essentially it's a foundation. It's an understanding of, how do I take where I am today from my own understanding of how I operate my business, and where do I need to go, what is my next gem process? Where do I need to be in five years to be that thought leader and how do I get there? So how do I take data that I know and data that I don't know? We have, I just ran into one of our customers... We run a program out of our team as well called the SAP Innovation Awards. It started off as the HANA Innovation Awards and now we cover all technologies and all topics for customer innovation. So SAP Leonardo, cloud platform solutions, SAP HANA solutions, data management solutions, these are all innovative offerings. We just announced all the winners, we have a actually ceremony tomorrow night where all the winners have been announced and they're gonna be receiving their trophies. We've been doing this for many years. What's interesting about that is all the innovative projects that are coming from the customer programs, projects, innovations. What are they doing? How are they co-innovating? Are they co-innovating with SAP? Are they doing smart farming? We have one winner that's actually doing smart farming, micro-crop planting to understand soil composition. And humidity and moisture composition is different even if you go one meter away on this, one meter, which is nothing. >> You're right. >> For the Americans listening, it's three feet. (everyone laughs) And that's pretty close. And they can actually combine different crop plantings based on soil conditions and compositions and this is all being monitored in the SAP HANA cloud. So this is really phenomenal. >> Yeah, that would be. >> And we love these kinds of stories. And what we're doing now, as you can imagine. You're probably gonna ask me, how do you connect the dots? Well it was pretty easy to connect the dots. We have the customers that are presented these great programs. They've created these great values that they're providing to their industry, right? And they're great wins and successes. And we're leveraging those customers in the community as thought leaders. And we're also doing sessions like that. I'd like to get them on theCUBE. Have them talk about some of the things >> That would be great. >> that they're doing. >> We would have fun. We love customer stories. >> I love it. I think it would be phenomenal. >> So, let's talk bout the dynamics of running a community program that featured around a product. And HANA, very straightforward, is about the tech, a lot of it was speeds and fees transitioned into solutions. >> Right. >> When you start out with something as ambitious as Leonardo framework, are the dynamics different, like what are, what is the community like? >> A little bit 'cause SAP HANA is the foundation. And we saw this today at the keynotes today. And Bill's keynote was phenomenal and we saw that how he was positioning this and it's all about the intelligent enterprise and SAP HANA as a foundation, it's fantastic. And we've been doing this for a lot of years. But what do we do to build upon that? When we established the foundational community for SAP HANA, people started coming in and wanting to understand everything about the HANA community. We did a couple fundamental things. Number one, we connected with the SAP HANA Academy. And I'll give a shout out to my friends at the academy, I love them to death, and we've been partnering with them for five plus years. The SAP HANA Academy is a YouTube site of thousands of videos on how to do anything. It could be data management, it could be data hub, it could be Vora which is the connected to Hadoop. It could be SAP HANA. It could be analytics. And there's thousands, literally thousands of videos on how to just about do anything that you want connected to the community. So the people and the SAP HANA Academy team has presented content, webinars on our community broadcasting at least for the last... This year they did one, they do like two or three every year for the last number of years. What we did with SAP Leonardo was, Leonardo can be thought of as a combination of the technologies. So we have, as you know, with machine learning, IoT, blockchain, right, analytics and a whole bunch of other things, design thinking methodologies that are in Leonardo, so what we did is we took a lot of that and created a series of webinars and content. We just finished something called the SAP Digital Transformation Series featuring SAP Leonardo in conjunction with ASUG, the America User Group, that's our co-conference sponsor here and we love them to death. And what we did was do the 14-part webinar series. We had thousands of people come onto these calls and each call covered, for example, Mala, who's our president, she did what is the overview of Leonardo? How do we do this? We covered analytics with Mike Flannagan. Maricel covered design thinking. And then we went from there. Then we covered the solutions themselves. What is IoT, what is blockchain, what is machine learning? How do you understand what these things do and how they impact your organization? Then we took it one step further. We went into the industry solutions. So the partners are developing industry solutions. The industry accelerates, we talked a little bit earlier, there's a press release that just came out on that, on some of the.. >> The Partner Medallion Initiative. >> The Premiere Medallion Initiative, right. My friend Mike is running, from the Leonardo team. And that is certifying partners for the specific solutions that they're building around the industry, the deliverables that they have around the SAP Leonardo, we feature that as well. So all of that content was in this series and we continue to build upon that. What we really want, though, now is we wanna do what we did this time last year which was, we want the customer stories. So we've done, I've told you, we've done a lot of webinars in the community. So a lot of content going to the members of the community from the experts that understand that content. Next step, second half of the year, is we want those customer stories out there. So those 80 or so webinars that I mentioned that we did with our customer Spotlights, we want those Spotlights now. So we'll focus those... Anybody watching, give me those Spotlights. We want those stories. We want the customers to really articulate their story, their challenges, their successes, their wins, what are they doing to the SAP technology that-- >> You're preaching to the choir about customer marketing persons so that there's no better value-- >> Isn't it great? >> Brand validation, than the voice of the customer. Speaking of brand validation, I heard this morning that Bill McDermott announced that you guys are now 17 on the top 100 global most valuable brands. >> Absolutely. >> He wants to be in the top 10. >> And we're proud of that. I'm part of that team. >> Up four. You're doing this with a tremendous amount of partners is what you mentioned, partners. We're in the NetApp booth. >> Correct. >> Talk to us about what SAP and NetApp are doing in the community to enable this amazing amount of education that you're doing. >> So that's a great find. I mean, SAP wouldn't be where it is today, and I've been with SAP for (chuckles) I don't wanna say the number of years but people watch me and they know I've been at SAP a long time. It's like you can't say Scott Feldman without SAP. So it's been kind of anchored in for a long time. It's sort of the blood, the blue blood runs in the DNA you know. It was just kind of fun. But some of the partners that we've worked with in the communities have taken it to another step. NetApp is one of those. And I love working with NetApp. They're a strategic technology provider and a fantastic global partner with SAP. I know you just heard from RJ who did an interview, we work a lot with him and his team as well, Roland and the rest of the team. And what NetApp has done is they've made another strategic investment with us in the communities, for the HANA community and the Leonardo community such that they're a name-sponsored partner. And what's really nice about that is we have a special spot and if you go to the SAPHANACommunity.com site, or if you're already a member, or the other one is, you can guess, SAPLeonardoCommunity.com, very similar, right? If you go to either one of those sites, you'll find that there's a spot for partners that are specific to that community, that have taken the next step to add additional value. NetApp is there, there's a page. And what we've done is we've created a page with all the NetApp content on, what is NetApp's contribution on SAP HANA and Leonardo? Where is the value proposition? Why NetApp? What are they doing with SAP? Where are the links that we can go for all the content that NetApp has provided to us to post in that community? And not only that, NetApp is also an outstanding member, upstanding member of the SAP HANA CL Council Community 'cause they also run SAP. And, in addition to that, NetApp is a strategic partner that provides webinar content for SAP, for the community. So, about once a quarter, there'll be a webinar that is sponsored by NetApp and now I'm bugging them a little bit to get the customers in front of the webinar so we can have these little-- >> There must be some NetApp-SAP Customer Spotlights just waiting to come into the surface, right? >> Oh, absolutely. And we're doing them in small snippets so what's really great about that, it's kinda like this discussion that we're having, these small chunks. 'Cause I think the new wave of doing things, >> Snackable content. >> And I could certainly tell you're from the generation that's just maybe a little bit younger, is that they don't have time to sit down and watch a webinar for one hour. But they'll take it in 20-minute doses. They'll just like, "Man, give me "all the 20-minute webinars you want." It's like, I'll just give me a chunk and I'll take it and boom. I really want that. So that's been a lot of fun. So NetApp's been a fantastic strategic partner and we'll continue to partner with them moving forward. >> So I'm hearing a lot of collaboration, a lot of participation, energy just radiating, I think off from the main stage-- >> Oh I don't like the community, just do the watch, uncles love it. >> From the main stage to what you're talking about, what with what you guys are doing and I love to hear that the customers are being recognized for their innovation. Not just-- >> They are, yeah. >> Transforming their businesses, new revenue streams, new business models, but leveraging their partners like SAP, like NetApp, to become the intelligent enterprise and change industries. >> Absolutely, Lisa. And they're becoming the thought leaders of their own industry. So if you want to become a leader or a thought leader in your own specific industry, join the SAP HANA Community, make the investments in SAP Leonardo, work with SAP, work with NetApp, and like Bill says, let's get it done. >> Let's get it done. Scott, thanks so much for stopping by and chatting with Keith and me this morning. >> Thank you for your time, it's been my pleasure. >> And enjoy the rest of the event. >> I look forward to it. >> All right. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend on theCUBE from the NetApp booth at SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018. Thanks for watching. (funky music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. Its theCube, covering NAB 2017. Brought to you by HGST. >> Hi welcome back to theCube, we are live from NAB 2017. I'm Lisa Martin in Las Vegas, excited to be joined by the co-founder of Avalanche, Josh Kolden. Hey Josh, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you. >> So tells us a little bit about what Avalanche is. >> Well, Avalanche is a file navigator for film makers. It allows, the difference being from something like Windows Explorer or an Apple finder, is that it allows you to work with files wherever they are, on different computers, in the cloud, on different units of production as they're moving around the world. Without having to do all the low-level coordinating of that data. >> So in media we're talking about massive files. How is this different from Dropbox, Box, et cetera? >> So those tools actually try to synchronize your data. So they, if you put a big media file in Dropbox it'll try to copy not only the file to the cloud but also of course to any other computers you have your Dropbox running on. What Avalanche is doing, doesn't necessarily can move it, but it doesn't necessarily move it. Instead, let's say you're an editor or studio and you want to see what's happening on set, you can see all the files as they're coming off of a camera and interact with them. Rename them, make notes, whatever has to happen, see the notes that are already applied to them. And when those files show up in editorial, in say hard drive that's when all that happens, and gets synchronized locally. So it allows people to work in a very intuitive and natural production workflow, without actually trying to copy huge amounts of data across the net. >> In terms of like the production life cycle, are we talking about pre-production, production, post-production, or the whole kit and caboodle? >> It's the whole thing, because what happens in production is you see teams of people kind of ad hoc join the production, they might have teams during pre-production that are there for a bit and teams that come on in post-production. So there's always this coordination problem of knowing who has what, you know, where is the camera? Post-production's looking for camera imports that only people that were on set know about. And this provides a mechanism to kind of have a continuity between all those different teams across the entire production pipeline. >> Continuity is key. What, give us an example, you had mentioned, and this is really built for filmmakers. If something is filmed and the crew or the director decides, you know what, that would've been great if we'd actually shot that for VR. What's the process of them, or how simple is it or seamless for them to go back in, pull something out, change it? >> Well, in those kinds of situations, I mean production generally, usually has a lot of planning involved. So you're going to know going in those kinds of issues, if it's something as big as, we want to have extra footage for VR or whatever. But one thing that happens is, let's say for example, there's a costume change where you've got a product which is a suit or something, that needs to be placed in the scene for the financing and then somebody spills something on it, but story-wise that works, so they're going to keep it in. People that are in the product teams later down the line might need to know these changes have occurred so they can either pushback and say, no we need to re-shoot that with a clean suit, or whatever that information might be. That back and forth. So this makes that even possible at all. Before it would just be making sure that somebody on production called the, that team and explained it to them. Right now, with this, you can just put a quick note on any device and it eventually be findable, you can just search it like Google, and find any information related to that suit, or that shot, or that production day. Any kind of different ways of searching for the stuff you're looking for. >> So facilitating a little bit of automation. You talk about the connectivity, but also it sounds like the visibility is there, much more holistic. >> Yeah we call it discoverability, because right now a lot of the stuff isn't discoverable. Once, say you don't know what row database entry is, once you've lost that row number. There's no way to find out where that data comes from anymore, it's just completely disconnected. So we use a framework, it's open sourced underneath, called C4, the Cinema Content Creation Cloud and that framework provides a mechanism that what they called indelible metadata where it binds attributes to media in a way that doesn't easily get lost. So downstream you can discover relationships you didn't expect to be there. You don't have to preplan all the relationships and build them in advance. >> So one of the things you and I were chatting about before we went live is how, how Silicon Valley approaches this cloud. Versus how Hollywood approaches it. Tell us a little bit more about your insights there, I thought it was very intriguing. >> Yeah, this is a really interesting thing because not a lot of people realize, because a lot of people were on both sides, Hollywood and Silicon Valley, were using the same terminology. We're talking about the cloud, we're talking about files, we're talking about copying things. But there's subtle differences that get lost. And so what I've been working on a lot in the open sourced community, and in standards is helping to communicate this new concept that what we really need is, like a web for media production. With a normal web that most of Silicon Valley and cloud tools are built on, you're expecting to be able to transfer all your data each time. You go to the website, you get the webpage right then, you get all the images that it links to right then. But you don't want to do that when you're doing media production cause that might represent terabytes of data for each shot. And you need to work relatively quickly. You might be doing renders or composites, these things might take many many many elements to layer together. You can't be requesting this data as you need it every single time. You want to kind of get there and use, do all the processing you can possibly do all at once. So an architecture like that calls for a different kind of internet. An internet where your data moves less often. You get it to the cloud and you leave it there, and you do all your processing on it. Or it's in editorial, you do all your editing with it. The pieces that you need are in the right places, and you move them as little as possible. You move, command and control and metadata between those locations, but the media itself needs to arrive either maybe by hard drive or get synced in advance, there's different ways of that moving, but it doesn't happen at the same time that the command and control is happening. So yeah, we are trying to communicate that difference. That Hollywood is used to it happening because they have the data center in their building. Silicon Valley's used to it happening because it's small data across the network. And that's where that disconnect is happening, is they both think it's just a quick call, but it works for them because of a different architecture that they're building on top of. >> Different architectures, different, I imagine objectives. How are you helping to influence Silicon Valley coming together with Hollywood and really them influencing each other? Whether it's Hollywood influencing the type of internet that's needed and why, and Silicon Valley influencing maybe get away from the on prem data centers. Leverage hybrid as a destination, as a journey. Leverage the cloud for economies of scale. What's that influence like? >> Yeah, it's really fantastic because I think it's a perfect, it's really really good relationships between the kinds of skill-sets that Silicon Valley companies bring to the table, and the kinds of creations talent that Hollywood has. In fact, there's a lot of what Hollywood production studios don't want to have to invest in. They don't want to have a data center. If they can have a secure, productive, as you need it tool set, that they turn up they performance on when they're in production and then turn it off when they're done. That's exactly what we do with camera equipment. We rent it for the production and we give it back. So we're used to in Hollywood, that production model. So it's kind of teed up and ready to use all those services, it's just this kind of plumbing level that has been everybody's pain point. >> So from a collaboration perspective, are you facilitating, like a big cloud provider meeting with one of the big studios and really collaborating to kind of cross pollinate? >> Yeah so, I've been working with the Entertainment Technology Center, that's funded, at USC yeah, they're funded by all the major studios, and have other members like Google and other big vendors for cloud and whatnot. And these groups are very interested in trying to collaborate with technology companies and figure out the best ways to work together. And I have a lot of experience with cloud and computer technology and Silicon Valley style services. And also for production. So I've been working extensively in trying to bridge that gap, in terms of the understanding, but also in terms of some fundamental tools like I was saying, the open source framework, C4, so that, kind of like the web and HTML and all that stuff came about. Nobody could go to that level of the internet and create that new economy of the internet until those foundations were in place. So that's what we've been pushing. >> Speaking of foundation, last question before we wrap here. Where are you in this, kind of first use case example of the meeting of the minds? How close are you to really fixing this facilitated to really support what both sides need? >> We've actually been doing a number of production tasks over at ETC. We've shot several short films using these things. So all these things are actually in place and usable today. It's just a matter of getting people to start using them, be aware of them. They're all free and, you know, easy to use, relatively for technical people, for Silicon Valley people. And then there's going to be another layer that we're really, that's why we're talking a lot about it, that's going to be the software companies and the hardware companies supporting it. We're pushing it through standards. So it'll be showing up on everybody's radar soon. And we'll see higher level integrations, so the digital artists that don't know how to do that lower level software stuff will just get it for free from the tools they use. And that's kind of what the Avalanche file manager does, it provides a lot of that cloud technology underneath and you don't have to worry about it, it just looks like a file manager. >> Very exciting. Thanks so much Josh for sharing your insights and what you're working on. We look forward to seeing those things coming to the forefront very soon. >> Alright, thank you. >> Thanks for joining us on theCube and we want to thank you for watching theCube. Again I'm Lisa Martin, we are live at NAB 2017, in Las Vegas, but stick around we will be right back.