(upbeat tech music) >> Announcer: From London, England it's theCUBE, covering Coupa Insp!re 19 Emea. Brought to you by Coupa. >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE, Lisa Martin on the ground in London at Coupa Insp!re 19. Very pleased to welcome back to theCUBE the CEO and Chairman of Coupa, Rob Bernshteyn. Rob, welcome back. >> Thank you so much, thank you for being with me. >> It's great to be here, so we are in with all of these customers and partners, this has been busy all day. You started things off today with a great keynote. I was telling you before we went live, I lost count of how many big customer examples were sprinkled, and I think infused throughout your keynote. I was looking at some numbers, Coupa just keeps doing this. 5x increase in spend under management since 2016, that's only three years. You guys have thousands of customers, five million suppliers on the platform, lot of growth. What are some of the key drivers to this great growth that you're seeing? Well a couple of things, I mean first of all, this is a huge total addressable market. Every company in the world could do a better job of the way they manage their business spending, and they could use information technology, hopefully from Coupa to help make that happen, and we are so proud to cultivate this community of like minded, thoughtful professionals that want to apply best practices, best in-class modern technology solutions like the ones we offer obviously, to drive quantifiable, measurable, outcomes for the companies that they work for. So in many ways, this is a celebration of our customer community and it's a wonderful opportunity to be with our customers here like this every year in Europe and every year in the United States, and now frankly in lots of other places around the world. >> So one of the themes that was also expressed during the keynote was Rachel Botsman's theme of trust and I think about the open community, the open platform and the community that Coupa is building, there's a lot of earned trust there that Coupa has earned from this growing community. Talk to me about what that means to you and the whole team and how it's influencing the direction that Coupa is going in. >> It means a lot to me personally frankly. The O in Coupa stands for Open, and that means not only technically open in terms of APIs and integrations, but it means open in spirit, open in dialogue, honest, transparent communications. I feel that our industry in enterprise software has a legacy or a history of a lot of PowerPoints, and a lot of demos, but frankly, quite a few failures of large scale deployments and a whole host of sectors. And we want to be part of the solution, we want to have an open, authentic, honest communication with our customers, with our prospective customers in the sales process, with our partners, with all of my Coupa colleagues, so we can avoid the friction and nonsense of politics that often gets in the way of driving measurable, meaningful value for every constituent. It's a very, very important thing to me, it's important to my team, and that's something we're doing our very best to cultivate in this Coupa community that we're creating. >> Speaking of cultivation, Coupa is cultivating this category of Business Spend Management. Tell us a little bit more about that and where you are with that. >> Sure, Business Spend Management is a pretty straightforward three words to describe the fact that our buyers and our customers are responsible for literally trillions of dollars and pounds and dollars and euros of spend all over the world. And as information becomes more and more transparent, the buyer, the one who's repsonsible for that spend becomes more and more powerful. So we sit on the side of that buyer, we give them information technology solutions from sourcing, to inventory management, to spend analytics, to procurement, to expensing, to invoicing, to payments, to supplier performance. All the capabilities needed to help them make the best purchasing decisions for their organizations, and help their companies become more profitable so that every one of these Coupa community customers we have here could get more bang for their buck and be that much more operationally efficient frankly in driving their own company's visions and missions and whatever it is that they bring to the world. And that's very aspirational for us and we're excited that so many have come on board with this establishment of the Business Spend Management category with us. >> So if we look at the PIPE, as you were calling it this morning, P-I-P-E, procure, invoice, pay, expense, I memorized that, you've got this one platform that can deliver all of that to this growing community of users who have the ability to get that visibility. That is one of the biggest challenges, I was reading some stats recently about the number of businesses, they were the percentages of businesses that don't have complete visibility over their spend, it's high. >> It's very high, we just did a study of 250 or so CFOs in the UK, and they're doing a great job at budgeting and reporting, but they have minimal visibility into their supply relationships, especially with what's happening here with Brexit. They have minimal visibility in supply risks, supply chain risks, and one of the ingredients that I think we're very special at and I'm proud of is the U in Coupa, the user centricity. In order to have visibility into your spend, you have to have adoption, you have to have people purchasing, spending, expensing, paying, processing invoices, everything that you just mentioned through this pipe on one centralized platform with a common UI layer, User Experience layer or User Interface, common business logic layer, common data model, use of community intelligence to help you make the best purchasing decisions, spend decisions. So we're really on the forefront of something very, very exciting because this adoption level is happening through this user centricity, and it's given these companies control and visibility of spend, and what could be more important to driving profitability, sustained business development? I think we're in a very unique position to help these customers. >> So is one of the biggest challenges for those, think it was 96% of those UK financial decision makers that you guys surveyed said, "We don't have complete visibility." Is it because they have legacy siloed solutions that don't give them that common layer? Or is it because maybe that and a mixture of users just not adopting it because it's not as intuitive to use? >> It's a number of things. First of all, for every process, whether it's procurement, expenses, invoicing, or payments, they have seperate systems to your point. Some cases, they don't even have systems. They're calling in orders, they're handling paper invoices, so there are different levels of maturity in each of those four areas. So one is getting them on to a common platform where all of those are orchestrating together. Secondarily, there's an opportunity to create synergy between those areas, so a lot of things that are getting expensed really should be preapproved and should be routed toward preferential pricing that procurement can negotiate on behalf of the user. Many times invoices are duplicate coming in from suppliers and AP departments are so excited that they pay quickly, but they're not necessarily sure whether they received the goods and services that the invoice is for. So having one common platform, that's the C in Coupa, Comprehensive. One common comprehensive platform for all these business processes is critical, leveraging the synergy of all them working together is critical, and getting that widespread user adoption is part of the secret formula here. >> Let's talk about the community. It's big, it's growing, 1.3 trillion in spend managed, and I watched our video back that you and I did a few months ago, it was 1.2. So that was four months ago, and you showed a bar chart today of just the last 12 months, had to look up this way to see that, so this community that has the ability to help derive and leverage the insights, talk to me about the insights and being able to help businesses go from reactive to predictive as a game changer for Coupa. >> Sure, it's a huge game changer and we really aspire to be, if you will, the tail that wags the dog in the enterprise software industry overall because the enterprise software industry, in effect, every customer is on their own island using information technology for a certain business process. What we've done with community intelligence is we've aggregated, anonymized, and sanitized data from the customer base and then are distilling insights that we could be prescriptive about. So we could tell our customers and we're telling them, "Hey, our community is having challenges with such "and such supplier based on literally perhaps millions "of dollars and millions of pounds in transactional spend. "We recommend you consider this supplier in "that same category because our community is having "great success with them. "The products are being shipped on time, "there's no war over invoicing, there's no breakage in "what's delivered." Those are just some examples, we're helping them think through commodities. A lot of our customers forgiven commodity, they have 20, 30 different suppliers. We're helping them think through in their industry. How can they do supply consolidation that makes sense based on benchmarking across the entire industry? We're helping them avoid supplier risk, we're helping them avoid fraud, we're identifying employees that may be expensing things or doing things that are fraudulent based on the collective intelligence of what we're seeing around the entire world in real time and we're prescribing actions to be taken before payments go out. So these are just some examples of what we're doing, we're doing things in benchmarking based on community intelligence, we're really just at the tip of the sphere of what's possible and we've prescribed tens of thousands of prescriptions in our platform to our customers. Many of them are taking those prescriptions and are making their businesses more operationally fit, and more agile, which is something we're very, very proud of. >> Speaking of those prescriptions, I think the number you shared this morning was 22,000 prescriptions delivered in one year? >> In the last 12 months, that's right. >> So we've got to talk about acceleration 'cause we've talked about the COUP, the acceleration, that is one example of that. I also saw that you guys have gotten, customers are doing approvals 30% faster than they were a year ago. You're getting mid-market customers up and running in four months, large enterprises up in eight months, talk to me about that acceleration that you guys are achieving. >> Absolutely, the A in Coupa is about Accelerated, it's about learning from our entire customer base and taking those learnings and making them part of best practices-based appointments so we could go faster and faster and faster. We look at retail customer, we've done dozens of retail customers, large and small. We know how to set up catalogs, we know how to set up workflow, we know how to think through the analytics that they need. So when they get going with the deployment from Coupa, they can get up and running way faster than with going back to five or six years ago where you have to think about it from scratch and a blueprint. They could leverage the insight from the community with doing that in mid-market, with doing that in subverticals like credit unions, for example. Biotechs, we're doing it in insurance, we're doing it in pharma, all hosts of industries, and I think as we learn from every deployment and collect those insights, we're going to be able to drive value faster and faster to our customers. And the other element that's important here is it's not just taking the customer live, all of our customers grow with us. They get more and more value every year, this is why our renewal rate is so strong and customers add more business with us because they're getting value and that value continues to grow, and that's really what value as a service is about. We're not a software company, and we're not a software as a service company. We're truly a value as a service company, which is a very different concept and one that we're cultivating in this marketplace. >> What are some of your favorite, I know you love being in front of the customers, what are some of your favorite examples that really show the value that Coupa is delivering to the changing role of procurement, making that girl or guy much more strategic and much more of a partner to the business? >> Sure, I shared some examples this morning that I really loved and appreciated celebrating some of our trendsetters, or what we call spendsetters. You look at Zalando, our retailer where they weren't necessarily going to take them so seriously about savings, but when they went to marketing and said, "We can give you much more bang "for your marketing budget "so you could reach more potential consumers," well of course they embraced that. And we gave them a usable opportunity, a usable platform for doing that as similar Zalando, they engaged. Now they have something like 85% spender management. When we started working with them, they had zero purchase orders, everything was the wild west. You look at, I was just speaking to one of our customers at Procter & Gamble just five minutes ago here at the expo. They've run more than 50 billion pounds of spend through the Coupa platform, 50 billion. That's not easy, but they've done that in just a couple of years with us, and not only did they have visibility spent, but they're saving, they're routing purchases to preferred suppliers, so the list just goes on and on and on our website, at Coupa.com on the Customers tab, you'll see obviously dozens of customers holding up signs of the real measurable value they're getting from working with us and that's something that we really take a lot of pride in. >> That speaks for itself. Last question for you Rob, talk to me about those strategic partnerships that Coupa has. I know some news coming out today with what you guys are doing with American Express. >> Sure, we've entered the payment space and we entered it because our customer community asked us for it. They said, "Look, if we're procuring goods "and services through you, why wouldn't we all, "and we're doing invoice and we're doing all "of the components of the pipe, "why wouldn't we also go deeper into payments, help us pay." Because many now have to log in to all these different ERP systems and kick off batch process, so we went into payments. And in payments, we have a host of partnerships. Now, today we announced the relationship with American Express in the UK and Australia for virtual credit card payments. Now it's very simple in Coupa, someone needs a good or service, it gets routed through workflow for approval. Once approved, a dynamic credit card number is generated by American Express, the individual makes the purchase, and all the reconciliation, the back-end is handled by Coupa. All the reporting, the visibility, the insights to price points and category assessments are there and visible and the company's in a position to fine tune their spend profile. So that's just one example, and we're doing things in dynamic discounting and accelerating payments. We've just launched today in general availability and Robby will be discussing it tomorrow ahead of business acceleration. We launched our batch payments capability, the ability to do invoice payments in batch along any rail, whether it be banking relationships, whether it be eCheck, whether it be credit card, going into one environment and kicking off batch payments without having to wait for all these different ERP systems to take hold. So we're really at the, in my mind, at the very beginning of addressing a huge market opportunity, we're proud of what we've achieved so far. I'm particularly proud of the customer community developing around us, and we're excited about the days, weeks, months, quarters, and years to come. >> So you talked about, last question, the big TAM, in this total adjustable market. What are some of the core elements to Coupa's path to a billion in revenue? >> We're not as exciting to many investors as a hot startup that grows really quickly and maybe has some sort of viral component to it. We've been at this for over 10 years, we've grown thoughtfully, we've grown carefully. The growth is fast 30, 40 plus percent, but it's thoughtful and careful, it's one customer at a time. We're careful in how much we spend on sales and marketing, especially want customers to choose us rather than us hard-selling them on everything, we want the offering to sell itself. We have an ecosystem of systems integrators, now more than 3,000, Centric, APMG, Deloitte, and others that are certified on deploying Coupa. We're expanding our product footprint, our customers now use on average 4.7 applications from us and they're consuming those applications rather than us pushing them on them. We're expanding globally, we're expanding in terms of the enterprise business and the mid-market business. Our mid-market business is now really at scale and scaling beautifully, it's a beautiful business model. So those are just some of the vectors in which we'll continue to expand, but I think the path to $1 billion for us is very clear, and ultimately comes down to execution, delivering for every customer, making sure they're getting value from working with us year in and year out, and I think before you know it, we'll be on the doorstep of that $1 billion. >> Excellent. Rob, it's been a pleasure having you back on theCUBE. Thank you for having theCUBE out here in London, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> For Rob Bernshteyn, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE from Coupa Insp!re 19. Thanks for watching. (upbeat tech music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Jose, California in the heart of silicon valley, it's theCUBE! Covering QuickBooks Connect 2016. Sponsored by Intuit QuickBooks. Now here are your hosts Jeff Frick and John Walls. >> Welcome back to San Jose, California. We continue here on theCUBE our coverage of QuickBooks Connect 2016. Of course theCube is the flagship broadcast here on SiliconANGLE TV where we extract the signal from the noise and I tell you what, with our next guest, we have a lot of signal to bring you. Scott Cook, the founder and the chairman of the executive committee at Intuit. Scott, thank you for being with us. We really appreciate the time and have been looking forward to this for quite some time once we knew you were going to be on theCube. It's good to have you. >> Good to be here. >> Let's talk about just first off, look at where you are now, right? 30-some odd years. It's been quite a ride I would assume for you. >> Yeah, it started, you know Tom and I got together and then there were two of us and then we eventually had seven of us in a basement. Well they called it the garden level. But the only part of the garden you could see would be the roots and the gophers. (laughter) And then we hit bad times and the things ... We just couldn't get money. We couldn't get sales so we shrunk down to four people. Couldn't pay salaries. It was pretty ugly. And from that, to look at 5,000 people here today. 8,000 employees in the company. When I started the biggest PC software company was 160 employees, and they were huge! Oh these giants! (laughter) >> How do I manage all this? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Well a quote that we've heard a couple of times today. We heard on the keynote stage. About the corporate philosophy of we fall in love with your problems, not our solutions. And is that the driving force you think? I mean, why you've made it through 33 years? >> I think yeah. Yeah, I actually think that's pretty important not just to the success of Intuit and QuickBooks and Mint and TurboTax, but to business in general. My theory is what great entrepreneurs do is they find the intersection of two circles. So think of a Venn diagram and the intersection. One circle is what are people's biggest, most important unsolved problems? Not the problems that are already solved by someone else. Find the ones that aren't solved yet. And then look for the ones that we can solve. Cause you can't solve everything. But look where we can apply the best technologies in the world. What's in that intersection? And focus there. >> And in some of the research to get ready for this. You've talked about really focusing on the important stuff. You gave a great example in that Khan Academy talk about there's really only 1 1/2 things that you should really be focusing on to really move the ship forward. And that was a very great insight. >> Yeah, you know all of of us have the desire to do too many things. You get groups. You've got 10 people in a room, they each have their ideas and it's tempting to shoot at too many targets. And those 10 targets are not of equal importance. You got to go through and kind of rigorously and be disciplined and say what's the 1 1/2 most important? And stay relentlessly focused on that. >> And then how is your role changed? As time has passed and you're no longer the CEO. Now you're chairman head of the executive board. How have you kind of learned to still keep your hands on it but in kind of a little bit more of a distant role? >> Well, first of all, thank goodness for leaders like Brad Smith, Sasan Goodarzi who heads up our small business group, that's really the host of this show. Thank goodness for great leaders like that. So my role's changed a ton. I work really on two areas now which is strategy and coaching our entrepreneurs. So strategy over to Brad and our other leaders. I'm trying to help our leaders see the future and make the big strategic calls. What's really most important? How do we know? And then work with our entrepreneurs. We're a collection of entrepreneurs basically. We've got a couple hundred entrepreneurial projects going on inside the company at any one time. And each one of those is like a little startup. I mean, they've got a customer in mind. They've got a problem they're trying to solve to improve people's lives so fundamentally. And there are challenges. So helping grow our entrepreneurs and then grow the culture around them to allow great entrepreneurs to invent things to change the world and do that from within Intuit with a huge reach to be able to get the inventions out in the hands of millions. And change the lives of tens of millions of people. >> So, over the course of the run of the company, they haven't all been home runs. >> Scott: Oh yeah. >> Right. So how have you learned from those swings and misses? And applied them to the small businesses that you're serving? Who are swinging and missing on a regular basis and you're trying to narrow that margin, right? Trying to make them more successful. >> Scott: Yeah. >> So what did you learn you think maybe through your attempts about that culture of trying basically. >> I think maybe the most important thing really dovetails with what you just said. Early on, when the company was, before we even had our first product out, we'd build a version of it and then we would bring in test audiences of it and have them test it to see if they could figure it out without us saying anything. And they couldn't. So then we'd redesign it and then we'd test again. And then we'd redesign it and test again. Over time kind of lost some of that dedication to running experiments. And it became whose opinion? And you'd build, and it was the loudest opinion in the room. Or the boss' opinion. And that produced a number of failures. Things that just didn't work. Customers didn't buy it. Or they bought it and it didn't it didn't produce the desired effect when they bought it. So the thing I've learned about life and companies is to set up a culture where you make decisions based on fast cheap experiments. That very thing you were talking about. If you got an idea, figure out, okay, what's a leap of faith assumption, let's go try it. And don't debate it. Try it. And then we learned from trying. Oh, a bunch of those don't work. And then we learned from the things. Why didn't it work? And that teaches us something we didn't know before. That maybe the fulcrum, the pivot, to a new idea. And some of those do work or most of it worked. But other pieces didn't. And we learned by doing. Not by debating in a conference room. So to set up your company so that people throughout the company can take their idea and run the experiment. That produces great entrepreneurs and great learning. A continuous stream of learning. I guess the learning begins when you first get real people trying your idea for real. >> Let me follow up. Cause the other thing you talk about is that often comes from the youngest and the newest employees. Which is completely antithesis to a kind of hierarchical structure. Where these are the people that you should be listening and giving them the opportunity within this comfortable framework to do these experiments. >> Absolutely. Sometimes the very freshest ideas come from the people farthest from the boss. Newest in the company. Closest to the customer. But typically in a hierarchy, whose got the least clout? Whose ideas are the least listened to? It'd be the new person, the young person. >> Jeff: Right. >> And so part of the genius of running a company of decision by experiment is that everyone's ideas can be run as an experiment. The boss' idea. The CEO's idea. And the person that's new. We should be testing each of those. Except in a crisis where you got to make snap decisions. And hopefully those aren't very often. You should run the company so that each good idea can be tested, regardless of where it comes from. And then the great thing is, then you get the best ideas from all your folks and they learn from doing. If their idea doesn't work, now they learn from that. Ooh, okay. I thought it was going to do X, it did Y. Why? What didn't I know? That's where learning comes from. Learning doesn't tend to come from the successes, learning comes from the things that didn't work. >> So, I think we've all seen good executives. How they operate. They hire good people, right? That's ... You have a vision and then you hire people who surround that and amplify that vision. So when you're looking for people or when you've been looking for people to work with you. What's that common thread? Or what are the traits that you've looked for the most to think that's a good fit? Or this is the person that I want on my team. In order to carry on this vision to where it's expanded to where it is today. >> Let me break that into two buckets. There are a set of things which are unique to particular career paths. So certain things from engineers might be different than certain things from a salesperson or a marketer or a finance person. So let's set that aside. Let's cover the commonalities. I think there's a few things. When you think about the people you've most loved working with or for. There are people who are great creative problem solvers. Instead of seeing a problem or barrier and giving up or being unglued by it. Can figure out okay, how're we going to solve that problem? And then there's people who are there to serve. Where it's not all about them. I've got a thing that I tell our folks that others won't care how much you know until they first know how much you care. So if one of our speakers today said it. If your first job is to serve yourself you're not going to go very far. Because who wants to work with someone who's self serving? Who wants to buy from a company that's only looking after its own front P&L? Job one is you got to serve who you're serving. The customer or the person of the company who you serve. So we look for people who are really motivated by the outside to try to do right by the customer. I think you look for people who are achievement oriented. Who get stuff done. Who make things happen. Do you want to work with somebody who always needs to be dragged along? No. You want to work with somebody who's pulling you along. Who's getting a lot done. So you go, wow, that person gets a lot done. So I think those are pretty core. Solve the creative problems. Have the passion and energy to serve, do what's right for the customer. And then get a lot done. >> And then you've talked about the curse of success. And avoiding the curse of success. And you guys have done that, obviously. So what are the kind of the lessons to say fresh? This started as a checkbook register and now the future of payments and mobile and the options are just tremendous. Bitcoin, who knows where that's going. So, as the future keeps evolving, how do you stay fresh? How do you keep the team fresh? How do you not rest on your laurels even though you have 5,000 fans walking around San Jose convention center today? >> This is a real challenge for companies. Because success turns organizations. It makes them dumb and slow. It's tempting, the thing I would avoid is it's tempting to look at your achievements. To look through the rear view mirror. And look at boy, how much we've achieved. But that only makes you self satisfied. In fact, with an organization you need to do the opposite. Look to where we want to be. Look to where we should be. And we're here. And then say, well shoot we are not very far. So for example, and I define these in customer terms. For example, we started our first product helped somebody manage a checkbook and pay bills. If you look at it really, the problem of paying bills has gotten worse. It used to be all bills came in the mail. So you had a little physical reminder. Some come in the mail, some you get by e-mail with invoices from some people. Some you go online and find a website. You pay some at a bank website. Maybe you go to the biller, you pay some. You write checks for some. It's much harder now. We have not actually got to the point. When our nirvana is you never worry about a bill. And you're never late. And you're never overdraft. The overdraft rate in the country is around 30% of households have a late payment during the year from which they get fees. And the overdraft rates, the overdraft charges can be $30, $35. We have not solved that yet. We got to look and say with all that we've done, that's what we should have done. So we've got a team working on that right now. Because we got re-focused on it. So we'll be coming out in December with stuff in there. Look at tax. Tax many people would say is one of our best businesses. And it is. Look at all we've achieved. But, look at the reality. People are still spending a lot of time on tax. Who wants to be spending time typing stuff into tax software? Does anybody? (laughter) No. There's not an accountant, there's not a consumer. We haven't solved that yet guys. There are still a hundred million people in the country typing stuff in to systems to do taxes every February, March and April. That's where we want to be. Is ultimately there is no typing in. All that information you have that goes in your tax return goes in automatically. And if you're an accountant, it all goes in for your clients automatically. So that you can focus on the high level stuff and not the drudgery. So, viewed from the lens of really what life should be. What's our aspiration? Our ideal? Keep people focused on that. And it sure has helped motivate us. I mean, we should be finding a lot of money for small businesses. And we're launching, announcing today ways that we help small businesses find more money. We should be eliminating the drudgery of running a small business. Nobody wants to do the book work. Instead, they want to do what they love to do in business. It could be working with clients. It could be the craft of doing the business. It could be selling new business. Every business person has something they love to do. And it's not doing the books. And that yet, people still have to do it. We want to have it on your phone so you don't have to do the books. It's done automatically. And you got a question, boop boop, there's the answer. >> So you mentioned the phone. Is that the next big growth opportunity? Mobile this is top priority with so many different sectors right now. >> Yeah, yeah. It's the growth today. In fact, every new feature and new benefit that Sasan Goodarzi showed today in his keynote address. Every one of 'em, he showed it on a mobile phone. Every one. It's the fastest growing. TurboTax the great consumer business. It's the fastest growing platform by far. So yeah, if you can take stuff off a desktop and put it so automatically that you can just get on your phone, say, okay, yep, do it. >> Right, right. >> Yeah, so that's where we're aiming a lot of our innovation. And these are amazing platforms. A simple example, the fastest growing form of employment in the United States and in fact, in the world is self employed. Where you think of an Uber driver or someone like that. People who work as consultants, contractors, they work for themselves. They've got to keep track of all their business expenses. Or they lose that money on their tax returns. Money out of their pocket. They got to keep track of every individual business expense which of course, they co-mingle with their personal checking, personal credit card. And they got to keep track of every mile they drive for business. And keep it separate with contemporaneous records that the IRS requires with the starting odometer reading, the ending odometer reading, and the destination and what it was for. Well you can imagine that's such a pain in the butt. So many independent business people, freelancers fail. Or they do some but not others. And that's money right out of their pocket. Thousands of dollars they don't get. They should get that they deserve. So we've devised and a team really creative work, QuickBooks Self Employed. It sits on your phone in your pocket. It reads what's coming from your bank and your credit cards and anytime you're stopped at a stop light or you've got two minutes before a meeting starts. You can go through and say oh, that was a business expense, business, business. That was personal, personal. It's that fast. And then you get complete records for your taxes. Oh then mileage. There's lots of software out there that'll track your mileage but it does by pinging the GPS. GPS takes battery. You ping the GPS all day long, what happens? Zhoom. >> Goodbye phone. >> Bye bye phone. So it's worthless. Our guys we launched that. Quickly found out that people stopped using it because it drained their battery just like everyone else. So, three clever engineers. Together with a couple others came up with a really clever idea which we've patented now. And it tracks your location without pinging your GPS all day long. So it doesn't drain your battery. So now you had complete records. It can detect when you're driving and where you started, where you finished. How many miles. Keeps perfect record, just as the IRS requires. And then you just have to tell it which are business, which are personal. And then it learns. Which one are business trips. So that over time, it knows when you're driving on business and you don't have to do anything. You get complete tax records. We've got businesses using it who get on average $7,000 of tax deductions. $7,000 of tax deductions. Because of the way it tracks. >> And you're taking advantage of the platform. You're taking advantage of the accelerometer. >> Yes. >> More importantly I think. The thing about mobile that most people don't maybe consciously think of is the way we interact with it as you said is little bits of time here, there, and everywhere. >> Scott: Yes. >> It's not the sit down thing. But I think what I think is most exciting about this show is it's a lot of talk about technology. But at the end of the day, it's really more about business. And small business. And small medium size business. And getting business done. >> Scott: Yes. >> And letting people do those dreams like the gal that was on the keynote. >> Scott: Yes. >> Letting her build her company and her franchise. And not have to worry about am I getting all the right deductions. >> That's right. I think the technology is the enabler. But it's all to enable what? What are we trying to deliver? And you saw it, in the kind of lead of slides. We're trying to fuel the success of small business. This is all about success. The technology's an enabler but that's not the center, the star of the show. The star of the show are small businesses and how they succeed. And how the suite of things that hundreds of developers and hundreds of software entrepreneurs who all build for the QuickBooks ecosystem. The new methods, and new ways to drive small business success. And at the end of the day, we don't measure ourselves with software. We measure ourselves with how much more money did we make small businesses? How much time did we save them so they could do what they love? How did we help them grow their business? Running a small business is a, and I know from starting Intuit, it absorbs who you are. You identify with that business. It is your representation to the world. To your spouse, to your in-laws. And if that business is successful, it's something about you that's irreplaceably positive. If that business is struggling, it strikes to the core. I mean, you feel bad. You look bad. So helping businesses succeed. And move them from mediocrity to success is such a home run for the psychology of this growing part of our economy. For each individual, it's your report card on yourself. And we can help make those report cards much better. That's our mission. That's how we're going to change the world so, so dramatically. People can't imagine going back. >> I'd say that you've already changed it dramatically. And it is exciting to hear about the next steps but this whole blend of strategy and execution and culture you're being commended for. It's just a great example of all those factors coming together and make great things happen for a lot of people around the globe so congratulations for that and thank you for being with us Scott. We appreciate the time here on theCube. >> Jeff, John thank you very much. This was a pleasure. >> Jeff: Thank you. >> You bet. Back with more from San Jose in just a bit. You're watching theCube here on SiliconANGLE TV. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> The transformation of Dell into Dell EMC, and now Dell Technologies, has been one of the most remarkable stories in the history of the enterprise technology industry. The company has gone from a Wall Street darling rocketship PC company, to a middling enterprise player, forced to go private, to a debt-laden powerhouse that controlled one of the most valuable assets in enterprise tech, i.e., VMware. And now is a $100 billion dollar giant with a low-margin business, a strong balance sheet, and the broadest hardware portfolio in the industry. The financial magic that Dell went through would make anyone's head spin. The last lever of the Dell EMC deal was detailed in Michael Dell's book "Play Nice But Win," in a captivating chapter called "Harry You and the Bolt from the Blue." Michael Dell described how he and his colleagues came up with the final straw of how to finance the deal. If you haven't read it, you should. And of course, after years of successfully integrating EMC and becoming VMware's number-one distribution channel, all of this culminated in the spin-out of VMware from Dell, and a massive wealth-creation milestone, pending, of course, the Broadcom acquisition of VMware. So where's that leave Dell, and what does the future look like for this technology powerhouse? Hello, and welcome to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Dell Technologies Summit 2022. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'll be hosting the program. Now, today in conjunction with the Dell Tech Summit, we're going to hear from four of Dell's senior executives. Tom Sweet, who's the CFO of Dell Technologies. He's going to share his views on the company's position and opportunities going forward. He's going to answer the question, why is Dell a good long-term investment? Then we'll hear from Jeff Boudreau, who's the President of Dell's ISG business. That unit is the largest profit driver of Dell. He's going to talk about the product angle, and specifically, how Dell is thinking about solving the multi-cloud challenge. And then Sam Grocott, who's the Senior Vice President of Marketing, will come on the program and give us the update on APEX, which is Dell's as-a-Service offering, and then the new edge platform called Project Frontier. Now, it's also Cybersecurity Awareness Month, that we're going to see if Sam has, you know, anything to say about that. Then finally, for a company that's nearly 40 years old, Dell actually has some pretty forward-thinking philosophies when it comes to its culture and workforce. And we're going to speak with Jenn Saavedra, who's Dell's Chief Human Resource Officer, about hybrid work, and how Dell is thinking about the future of work. However, before we get into all this, I want to share our independent perspectives on the company, and some research that we'll introduce to frame the program. Now, as you know, we love data here at theCUBE, and one of our partners, ETR, has what we believe is the best spending intentions data for enterprise tech. So here's a graphic that shows ETR's proprietary Net Score methodology on the vertical axis, that's a measure of spending velocity, and on the x-axis is overlap or pervasiveness in the data sample. This is a cut for just the server, the storage, and the client sectors within the ETR taxonomy. So you can see Dell's CSG products, laptops in particular, are dominant on both the x and the y dimensions. CSG is the Client Solutions Group, and accounts for nearly 60% of Dell's revenue, and about half of its operating income. And then the arrow signifies that dot that represents Dell's ISG business, that we're going to talk to Jeff Boudreau about. That's the Infrastructure Solutions Group. Now, ISG accounts for the bulk of the remainder of Dell's business, and it is its, as I said, its most profitable from a margin standpoint. It comprises the EMC storage business, as well as the Dell server business, and Dell's networking portfolio. And as a note, we didn't include networking in that cut. Had we done so, Cisco would've dominated the graphic. And frankly, Dell's networking business isn't industry leading in the same way that PCs, servers, and storage are. And as you can see, the data confirms the leadership position Dell has in its client side, its server, and its storage sectors. But the nuance is, look at that red dotted line at 40% on the vertical axis. That represents a highly elevated Net Score, and every company in the sector is below that line. Now, we should mention that we also filtered the data for those companies with more than a hundred mentions in the survey, but the point remains the same. This is a mature business that generally is lower margin. Storage is the exception, but cloud has put pressure on margins even in that business, in addition to the server space. The last point on this graphic is, we put a box around VMware, and it's prominently present on both the x and y dimensions. VMware participates with purely software-defined high-margin offerings in these spaces, and it gives you a sense of what might have been, had Dell chosen to hold onto that asset or spin it into the company. But let's face it, the alternatives for Michael Dell were just too attractive, and it's unlikely that a spin-in would've unlocked the value in the way a spin-out did, at least not in the near future. So let's take a look at the snapshot of Dell's financials, to give you a sense of where the company stands today. Dell is a company with over $100 billion dollars in revenue. Last quarter, it did more than 26 billion in revenue, and grew at a quite amazing 9% rate, for a company that size. But because it's a hardware company, primarily, its margins are low, with operating income 10% of revenue, and at 21% gross margin. With VMware on Dell's income statement before the spin, its gross margins were in the low 30s. Now, Dell only spends about 2% of revenue on R&D, but because it's so big, it's still a lot of money. And you can see it is cash-flow positive. Dell's free cash flow over the trailing 12-month period is 3.7 billion, but that's only 3.5% of trailing 12-month revenue. Dell's APEX, and of course its hardware maintenance business, is recurring revenue, and that is only about 5 billion in revenue, and it's growing at 8% annually. Now, having said that, it's the equivalent of ServiceNow's total revenue. Of course, ServiceNow has 23% operating margin and 16% free cash-flow margin, and more than $5 billion in cash on the balance sheet, and an $85 billion market cap. That's what software will do for you. Now Dell, like most companies, is staring at a challenging macro environment, with FX headwinds, inflation, et cetera. You've heard the story. And hence it's conservative, and contracting revenue guidance. But the balance sheet transformation has been quite amazing, thanks to VMware's cash flow. Michael Dell and his partners from Silver Lake et al., they put up around $4 billion of their own cash to buy EMC for 67 billion, and of course got VMware in the process. Most of that financing was debt that Dell put on its balance sheet to do the transaction, to the tune of $46 billion it added to the balance sheet debt. Now, Dell's debt, the core debt, net of its financing operation, is now down to 16 billion, and it has $7 billion in cash on the balance sheet. So a dramatic delta from just a few years ago. So, pretty good picture. But Dell, a $100 billion company, is still only valued at 28 billion, or around 26 cents on the revenue dollar. HPE's revenue multiple is around 60 cents on the revenue dollar. HP Inc., Dell's laptop and PC competitor, is around 45 cents. IBM's revenue multiple is almost two times. By the way, IBM has more than $50 billion in debt thanks to the Red Hat acquisition. And Cisco has a revenue multiple that's over 3x, about 3.3x currently. So is Dell undervalued? Well, based on these comparisons with its peers, I'd say yes, and no. Dell's performance, relative to its peers in the market, is very strong. It's winning, and has an extremely adept go-to-market machine, but its lack of software content and its margin profile leads one to believe that if it can continue to pull some valuation levers while entering new markets, it can get its valuation well above where it is today. So what are some of those levers, and what might that look like, going forward? Despite the fact that Dell doesn't have a huge software revenue component since spinning out VMware, and it doesn't own a cloud, it plays in virtually every part of the hardware market. And it can provide infrastructure for pretty much any application in any use case, in pretty much any industry, in pretty much any geography in the world. And it can serve those customers. So its size is an advantage. However, the history for hardware-heavy companies that try to get bigger has some notable failures, namely HP, which had to split into two businesses, HP Inc. and HPE, and IBM, which has had an abysmal decade from a performance standpoint, and has had to shrink to grow again, and obviously do a massive $34 billion acquisition of Red Hat. So why will Dell do any better than these two? Well, it has a fantastic supply chain. It's a founder-led company, which makes a cultural difference, in our view. And it's actually comfortable with a low-margin software-light business model. Most certainly, IBM wasn't comfortable with that, and didn't have these characteristics, and HP was kind of just incomprehensible at the end. So Dell in my opinion, has a much better chance of doing well at 100 billion or over, but we'll see how it navigates through the current headwinds as it's guiding down. APEX is essentially Dell's version of the cloud. Now, remember, Dell got started late. HPE is further along from a model standpoint with GreenLake, but Dell has a larger portfolio, so they're going to try to play on that advantage. But at the end of the day, these as-a-Service offerings are simply ways to bring a utility model to existing customers, and generate recurring revenue. And that's a good thing, because customers will be loyal to an incumbent if it can deliver as-a-Service and reduce risk for customers. But the real opportunity lies ahead. Specifically, Dell is embracing the cloud model. It took a while, but they're on board. As Matt Baker, Dell's Senior Vice President of Corporate Strategy, likes to say, it's not a zero-sum game. What he means by that is, just because Dell doesn't own its own cloud, it doesn't mean Dell can't build value on top of hyperscale clouds. What we call supercloud. And that's Dell's strategy, to take advantage of public cloud capex, and connect on-prem to the cloud, create a unified experience across clouds, and out to the edge. That's ambitious, and technically it's nontrivial. But listen to Dell's Vice Chairman and Co-COO, Jeff Clarke, explain this vision. Please play the clip. >> You said also, technology and business models are tied together, and an enabler. >> That's right. >> If you believe that, then you have to believe that it's a business operating system that they want. They want to leverage whatever they can, and at the end of the day, they have to differentiate what they do. >> Well, that's exactly right. If I take that and what Dave was saying, and I summarize it the following way: if we can take these cloud assets and capabilities, combine them in an orchestrated way to deliver a distributed platform, game over. >> Eh, pretty interesting, right? John Furrier called it a "business operating system." Essentially, I think of it sometimes as a cloud operating system, or cloud operating environment, to drive new business value on top of the hyperscale capex. Now, is it really game over, as Jeff Clarke said, if Dell can do that? Uh, (sucks in breath) I'd say if it had that today, it might be game over for the competition, but this vision will take years to play out. And of course, it's got to be funded. And that's going to take time, and in this industry, it tends to move, companies tend to move in lockstep. So, as often is the case, it's going to come down to execution and Dell's ability to enter new markets that are ideally, at least from my perspective, higher margin. Data management, extending data protection into cybersecurity as an adjacency, and of course, edge and telco/5G opportunities. All there for the taking. I mean, look, even if Dell doesn't go after more higher-margin software content, it can thrive with a lower-margin model just by penetrating new markets and throwing off cash from those markets. But by keeping close to customers, and maybe through tuck-in acquisitions, it might be able to find the next nugget beyond today's cloud and on-prem models. And the last thing I'll call out is ecosystem. I say here, "Ecosystem, ecosystem, ecosystem," because a defining characteristic of a cloud player is ecosystem, and if APEX is Dell's cloud, it has the opportunity to expand that ecosystem dramatically. This is one of the company's biggest opportunities and challenges at the same time, in my view. It's just scratching the surface on its partner ecosystem. And its ecosystem today is both reseller heavy and tech partner heavy. And that's not a bad thing, but it's starting to evolve more rapidly. The Snowflake deal is an example of up-the-stack evolution, but I'd like to see much more out of that Snowflake relationship, and more relationships like that. Specifically, I'd like to see more momentum with data and database. And if we live in a data-heavy world, which we do, where the data and the database and data management offerings, you know, coexist and are super important to customers, I'd like to see that inside of APEX. I'd like to see that data play beyond storage, which is really where it is today, in its early days. The point is, with Dell's go-to-market advantage, which company wouldn't treat Dell like the on-prem, hybrid, edge, supercloud player that I want to partner with to drive more business? You'd be crazy not to. But Dell has a lot on its plate, and we'd like to see some serious acceleration on the ecosystem front. In other words, Dell as both a selling partner and a business enabler with its platform, its programmable Infrastructure-as-a-Service. And that is a moving target that will rapidly evolve. And of course, we'll be here watching and reporting. So thanks for watching this preview of Dell Technologies Summit 2022. I'm Dave Vellante, we hope you enjoy the rest of the program. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> UiPath has had a long, strange trip to IPO. How so you ask? Well, the company was started in 2005. But it's culture, is akin to a frenetic startup. The firm shunned conventions and instead of focusing on a narrow geographic area to prove its product market fit before it started to grow, it aggressively launched international operations prior to reaching unicorn status. Well prior, when it had very little revenue, around a million dollars. Today, more than 60% of UiPath business is outside of the United States. Despite its headquarters being in New York city. There's more, according to recent SEC filings, UiPath total revenue grew 81% last year. But it's free cash flow, is actually positive, modestly. Wait, there's more. The company raised $750 million in a Series F in early February, at a whopping $35 billion valuation. Yet, the implied back of napkin valuation, based on the number of shares outstanding after the offering multiplied by the proposed maximum offering price per share yields evaluation of just under 26 billion. (Dave chuckling) And there's even more to this crazy story. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, Powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis we'll share our learnings, from sifting through hundreds of pages (paper rustling) of UiPath's red herring. So you didn't have to, we'll share our thoughts on its market, its competitive position and its outlook. Let's start with a question. Mark Roberge, is a venture capitalist. He's a managing director at Stage 2 Capital and he's also a teacher, a professor at the B-School in Harvard. One of his favorite questions that he asks his students and others, is what's the best way to grow a company? And he uses this chart to answer that question. On the vertical axis is customer retention and the horizontal axis is growth to growth rate and you can see he's got modest and awesome and so forth. Now, so I want to let you look at it for a second. What's the best path to growth? Of course you want to be in that green circle. Awesome retention of more than 90% and awesome growth but what's the best way to get there? Should you blitz scale and go for the double double, triple, triple blow it out and grow your go to market team on the horizontal axis or should be more careful and focus on nailing retention and then, and only then go for growth? What do you think? What do you think most VCs would say? What would you say? When you want to maybe run the table, capture the flag before your competitors could get there or would you want to take a more conservative approach? What would Daniel Dines say the CEO of UiPath? Again, I'll let you think about that for a second. Let's talk about UiPath. What did they do? Well, I shared at the top that the company shunned conventions and expanded internationally, very rapidly. Well before it hit escape velocity and they grew like crazy and it got out of control and he had to reign it in, plug some holes, but the growth didn't stop, go. So very clearly based on it's performance and reading through the S1, the company has great retention. It uses a metric called gross retention rate which is at 96 or 97%, very high. Says customers are sticking with it. So maybe that's the right formula go for growth and grow like crazy. Let chaos reign, then reign in the chaos as Andy Grove would say. Go fast horizontally, and you can go vertically. Let me tell you what I think Mark Roberge would say, he told me you can do that. But churn is the silent killer of SaaS companies and perhaps the better path is to nail product market fit. And then your retention metrics, before you go into hyperbolic growth mode. There's all science behind this, which may be antithetical to the way many investors want to roll the dice and go for super growth, like go fast or die. Well, it worked for UiPath you might say, right. Well, no. And this is where the story gets even more interesting and long and strange for UiPath. As we shared earlier, UiPath was founded in 2005 out of Bucharest Romania. The company actually started as a software outsourcing startup. It called the company, DeskOver and it built automation libraries and SDKs for companies like Microsoft, IBM and Google and others. It also built automation scripts and developed importantly computer vision technology which became part of its secret sauce. In December 2015, DeskOver changed its name to UiPath and became a Delaware Corp and moved its headquarters to New York City a couple of years later. So our belief is that UiPath actually took the preferred path of Mark Roberge, five ticks North, then five more East. They slow-cooked for the better part of 10 years trying to figure out what market to serve. And they spent that decade figuring out their product market fit. And then they threw gas in the fire. Pretty crazy. All right, let's take a peak (chuckling) at the takeaways from the UiPath S1 the numbers are impressive. 580 million ARR with 65% growth. That asterisk is there because like you, we thought ARR stood for annual recurring revenue. It really stands for annualized renewal run rate. annualized renewal run rate is a metric that is one of UiPath's internal KPIs and are likely communicate that publicly over time. We'll explain that further in a moment. UiPath has a very solid customer base. Nearly 8,000, I've interviewed many of them. They're extremely happy. They have very high retention. They get great penetration into the fortune 500, around 63% of the fortune 500 has UiPath. Most of UiPath business around 70% comes from existing customers. I always say you're going to get more money out of existing customers than new customers but everybody's trying to go out and get new customers. But UiPath I think is taking a really interesting approach. It's their land and expand and they didn't invent that term but I'll come back to that. It kind of reminds me of the early days of Tableau. Actually I think Tableau is an interesting example. Like UiPath, Tableau started out as pretty much a point tool and it had, but it had very passionate customers. It was solving problems. It was simplifying things. And it would have bid into a company and grow and grow. Now the market fundamentals for UiPath are very good. Automation is super hot right now. And the pandemic has created an automation mandate to date and I'll share some data there as well. UiPath is a leader. I'm going to show you the Gartner Magic Quadrant for RPA. That's kind of a good little snapshot. UiPath pegs it's TAM at 60 billion dollars based on some bottoms up calculations and some data from Bain. Pre-pandemic, we pegged it at over 30 billion and we felt that was conservative. Post-pandemic, we think the TAM is definitely higher because of that automation mandate, it's been accelerated. Now, according to the S1, UiPath is going to raise around 1.2 billion. And as we said, if that's an implied valuation that is lower than the Series F, so we suspect the Series F investors have some kind of ratchet in there. UiPath needed the cash from its Series F investors. So it took in 750 million in February and its balance sheet in the S1 shows about 474 million in cash and equivalent. So as I say, it needed that cash. UiPath has had significant expense reductions that we'll show you in some detail. And it's brought in some fresh talent to provide some adult supervision around 70% of its executive leadership team and outside directors came to the company after 2019 and the company's S1, it disclosed that it's independent accounting firm identified last year what it called the "material weakness in our internal controls over financial report relating to revenue recognition for the fiscal year ending 2018, caused by a lack of oversight and technical competence within the finance department". Now the company outlined the steps it took to remediate the problem, including hiring new talent. However, we said that last year, we felt UiPath wasn't quite ready to go public. So it really had to get its act together. It was not as we said at the time, the well-oiled machine, that we said was Snowflake under Mike Scarpelli's firm operating guidance. The guy's the operational guru, but we suspect the company wants to take advantage of this mock market. It's a good time to go public. It needs the cash to bolster its balance sheet. And the public offering is going to give it cache in a stronger competitive posture relative to its main new competitor, autumn newbie competitor Automation Anywhere and the big whales like Microsoft and others that aspire and are watching what UiPath is doing and saying, hey we want a piece of that action. Now, one other note, UiPath's CEO Daniel Dines owns 100% of the class B shares of the company and has a 35 to one voting power. So he controls the company, subject of course to his fiduciary responsibilities but if UiPath, let's say it gets in trouble financially, he has more latitude to do secondary offerings. And at the same time, it's insulated from activist shareholders taking over his company. So lots of detail in the S1 and we just wanted to give you some of those highlights. Here are the pretty graphs. If whoever wrote this F1 was a genius. It's just beautiful. As we said, ARR, annualized renewal run rate all it does is it annualizes the invoice amount from subscriptions in the maintenance portion of the revenue. In other words, the parts that are recurring revenue, it excludes revenue from support and perpetual license. Like one-time licenses and services is just kind of the UiPath's and maybe that's some sort of legacy there. It's future is that recurring revenue. So it's pretty similar to what we think of as ARR, but it's not exact. Lots of customers with a growing number of six and seven figure accounts and a dollar-based net retention of 145%. This figure represents the rate of net expansion of the UiPath ARR, from existing listing customers over a 12 month period. Translation. This says UiPath's existing customers are spending more with the company, land and expand and we'll share some data from ETR on that. And as you can see, the growth of 86% CAGR over the past nine quarters, very impressive. Let's talk about some of the fundamentals of UiPath's business. Here's some data from the Brookings Institute and the OECD that shows productivity statistics for the US. The smaller charts in the right are for Germany and Japan. And I've shared some similar data before the US showed in the middle there. Showed productivity improvements with the personal productivity boom in the mid to late 90s. And it spilled into the early 2000s. But since then you can see it's dropped off quite significantly. Germany and Japan are also under pressure as are most developed countries. China's labor productivity might show declines but it's level, is at level significantly higher than these countries, April 16th headline of the Wall Street Journal says that China's GDP grew 18% this quarter. So, we've talked about the snapback in post-COVID and the post-isolation economy, but these are kind of one time bounces. But anyway, the point is we're reaching the limits of what humans can do alone to solve some of the world's most pressing challenges. And automation is one key to shifting labor away from these more mundane tasks toward more productive and more important activities that can deliver lasting benefits. This according to UiPath, is its stated purpose to accelerate human achievement, big. And the market is ready to be automated, for the most part. Now the post-isolation economy is increasingly going to focus on automation to drive toward activity as we've discussed extensively, I got to share the RPA Magic Quadrant where nearly everyone's a winner, many people are of course happy. Many companies are happy, just to get into the Magic Quadrant. You can't just, you have to have certain criteria. So that's good. That's what I mean by everybody wins. We've reported extensively on UiPath and Automation Anywhere. Yeah, we think we might shuffle the deck a little bit on this picture. Maybe creating more separation between UiPath and Automation Anywhere and the rest. And from our advantage point, UiPath's IPO is going to either force Automation Anywhere to respond. And I don't know what its numbers are. I don't know if it's ready. I suspect it's not, we'd see that already but I bet you it's trying to get there. Or if they don't, UiPath is going to extend its lead even further, that would be our prediction. Now personally, I would have Pegasystems higher on the vertical. Of course they're not an IPO, RPA specialist, so I kind of get what Gartner is doing there but I think they're executing well. And I'd probably, in a broader context I'd probably maybe drop blue prism down a little bit, even though last year was a pretty good year for the company. And I would definitely have Microsoft looming larger up in the upper left as a challenger more than a visionary in my opinion, but look, Gartner does good work and its analysts are very deep into this stuff, deeper than I am. So I don't want to discount that. It's just how I see it. Let's bring in the ETR data and show some of the backup here. This is a candlestick chart that shows the components of net score, which is spending momentum, however, ETR goes out every quarter. Says you're spending more, you're spending less. They subtract the lesses from the mores and that's net score. It's more complicated than that, but that's that blue line that you see in the top and yes it's trending downward but it's still highly elevated. We'll talk about that. The market share is in the yellow line at the bottom there. That green represents the percentage of customers that are spending more and the reds are spending less or replacing. That gray is flat. And again, even though UiPath's net score is declining, it's that 61%, that's a very elevated score. Anything over 40% in our view is impressive. So it's, UiPath's been holding in the 60s and 70s percents over the past several years. That's very good. Now that yellow line market share, yes it dips a bit, but again it's nuanced. And this is because Microsoft is so pervasive in the data stat. It's got so many mentions that it tends to somewhat overwhelm and skew these curves. So let's break down net score a little bit. Here's another way to look at this data. This is a wheel chart we show this often it shows the components of net score and what's happening here is that bright red is defection. So look at it, it's very small that wouldn't be churn. It's tiny. Remember that it's churn is the killer for software companies. And so that forest green is existing customers spending more at 49%, that's big. That lime green is new customers. So again, it's from the S1, 70% of UiPath's revenue comes from existing customers. And this really kind of underscores that. Now here's more evidence in the ETR data in terms of land and expand. This is a snapshot from the January survey and it lines up UiPath next to its competitors. And it cuts the data just on those companies that are increasing spending. It's so that forest green that we saw earlier. So what we saw in Q1 was the pace of new customer acquisition for UiPath was decelerating from previous highs. But UiPath, it shows here is outpacing its competition in terms of increasing spend from existing customers. So we think that's really important. UiPath gets very high scores in terms of customer satisfaction. There's, I've talked to many in theCUBE. There's places on the web where we have customer ratings. And so you want to check that out, but it'll confirm that the churn is low, satisfaction is high. Yeah, they get dinged sometimes on pricing. They get dinged sometimes, lately on service cause they're growing so fast. So, maybe they've taken the eye off the ball in a couple of counts, but generally speaking clients are leaning in, they're investing heavily. They're creating centers of excellence around RPA and automation, and UiPath is very focused on that. Again, land and expand. Now here's further evidence that UiPath has a strong account presence, even in accounts where its competitors are presence. In the 149 shared accounts from the Q1 survey where UiPath, Automation Anywhere and Microsoft have a presence, UiPath's net score or spending velocity is not only highly elevated, it's relative momentum, is accelerating compared to last year. So there's some really good news in the numbers but some other things stood out in the S1 that are concerning or at least worth paying attention to. So we want to talk about that. Here is the income statement and look at the growth. The company was doing like 1 million dollars in 2015 like I said before. And when it started to expand internationally it surpassed 600 million last year. It's insane growth. And look at the gross profit. Gross margin is almost 90% because revenue grew so rapidly. And last year, its cost went down in some areas like its services, less travel was part of that. Now jump down to the net loss line. And normally you would expect a company growing at this rate to show a loss. The street wants growth and UiPath is losing money, but it's net loss went from 519 million, half a billion down to only 92 million. And that's because the operating expenses went way down. Now, again, typically a company growing at this rate would show corresponding increases in sales and marketing expense, R&D and even G&A but all three declined in the past 12 months. Now reading the notes, there was definitely some meaningful savings from no travel and canceled events. UiPath has great events around the world. In fact theCUBE, Knock Wood is going to be at its event in October, in Las Vegas at the Bellagio . So we're stoked for that. But, to drop expenses that precipitously with such high growth, is kind of strange. Go look at Snowflake's income statement. They're in hyper-growth as well. We like to compare it to Snowflake is a very well-run company and it's in hyper-growth mode, but it's sales and marketing and R&D and G&A expense lines. They're all growing along with that revenue. Now, perhaps they're growing at a slower rate. Perhaps the percent of revenue is declining as it should as they achieve operating leverage but they're not shrinking in absolute dollar terms as shown in the UiPath S1. So either UiPath has applied some magic automation mojo to it's business (chuckling). Like magic beans or magic grits with my cousin Vinny. Maybe it has found the Holy grail of operating leverage. It's a company that's all about automation or the company was running way too hot on the expense side and had a cut and clean up its income statement for the IPO and conserve some cash. Our guess is the latter but maybe there's a combination there. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And just to add a bit more to this long, strange trip. When have you seen an explosive growth company just about to go public, show positive cashflow? Maybe it's happened, but it's rare in the tech and software business these days. Again, go look at companies like Snowflake. They're not showing positive cashflow, not yet anyway. They're growing and trying to run the table. So you have to ask why is UiPath operating this way? And we think it's because they were so hot and burning cash that they had to reel things in a little bit and get ready to IPO. It's going to be really interesting to see how this stock reacts when it does IPO. So here's some things that we want you to pay attention to. We have to ask. Is this IPO, is it window dressing? Or did UiPath again uncover some new productivity and operating leverage model. I doubt there's anything radically new here. This company doesn't want to miss the window. So I think it said, okay, let's do this. Let's get ready for IPO. We got to cut expenses. It had a lot of good advisors. It surrounded itself with a new board. Extended that board, new management, and really want to take advantage of this because it needs the cash. In addition, it really does want to maintain its lead. It's got Automation Anywhere competing with it. It's got Microsoft looming large. And so it wants to continue to lead. It's made some really interesting acquisitions. It's got very strong vision as you saw in the Gartner Magic Quadrant and obviously it's executing well but it's really had to tighten things up. So we think it's used the IPO as a fortune forcing function to really get its house in order. Now, will the automation mandate sustain? We think it will. The forced match to digital worked, it was effective. It wasn't pleasant, but even in a downturn we think it will confer advantage to automation players and particularly companies like UiPath that have simplified automation in a big way and have done a great job of putting in training, great freemium model and has a culture that is really committed to the future of humankind. It sounds ambitious and crazy but talk to these people, you'll see it's true. Pricing, UiPath had to dramatically expand or did dramatically expand its portfolio and had to reprice everything. And I'm not so worried about that. I think it'll figure that pricing out for that portfolio expansion. My bigger concern is for SaaS companies in general. I don't like SaaS pricing that has been popularized by Workday and ServiceNow, and Salesforce and DocuSign and all these companies that essentially lock you in for a year or two and basically charge you upfront. It's really is a one-way street. You can't dial down. You can only dial up. It's not true Cloud pricing. You look at companies like Stripe and Datadog and Snowflake. It is true Cloud pricing. It's consumption pricing. I think the traditional SaaS pricing model is flawed. It's very unfairly weighted toward the vendors and I think it's going to change. Now, the reason we put cloud on the chart is because we think Cloud pricing is the right way to price. Let people dial up and dial down, let them cancel anytime and compete on the basis of your product excellence. And yeah, give them a price concession if they do lock in. But the starting point we think should be that flexibility, pay by the drink. Cancel anytime. I mentioned some companies that are doing that as well. If you look at the modern SaaS startups and the forward-thinking VCs they're really pushing their startups to this model. So we think over time that the term lock-in model is going to give way to true consumption-based pricing and at the clients option, allow them to lock-in for a better price, way better model. And UiPath's Cloud revenue today is minimal but over time, we think it's going to continue to grow that cloud. And we think it will force a rethink in pricing and in revenue recognition. So watch for that. How is the street going to react to Daniel Dines having basically full control of the company? Generally, we feel that that solid execution if UiPath can execute is going to outweigh those concerns. In fact, I'm very confident that it will. We'll see, I kind of like what the CEO says has enough mojo to say (chuckling) you know what, I'm not going to let what happened to for instance, EMC happen to me. You saw Michael Dell do that. You saw just this week they're spinning out VMware, he's maintaining his control. VMware Dell shareholders get get 40.44 shares for every Dell share they're holding. And who's the biggest shareholder? Michael Dell. So he's, you got two companies, one chairman. He's controlling the table. Michael Dell beat the great Icahn. Who beats Carl Icahn? Well, Michael Dell beats Carl Icahn. So Daniel Dines has looked at that and says, you know what? I'm not just going to give up my company. And the reason I like that with an if, is that we think will allow the company to focus more on the long-term. The if is, it's got to execute otherwise it's so much pressure and look, the bottom line is that UiPath has really favorable market momentum and fundamentals. But it is signing up for the 90 day short clock. The fact that the CEO has control again means they can look more long term and invest accordingly. Oftentimes that's easier said than done. It does come down to execution. So it is going to be fun to watch (chuckling). That's it for now, thanks to the community for your comments and insights and really always appreciate your feedback. Remember, I publish each week on Wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and these episodes are all available as podcasts. All you got to do is search for the Breaking Analysis podcast. You can always connect with me on Twitter @dvellante or email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And we'll see you in clubhouse. Follow me and get notified when we start a room, which we've been doing with John Furrier and Sarbjeet Johal and others. And we love to riff on these topics and don't forget, please check out etr.plus for all the survey action. This is Dave Vellante, for theCUBE Insights Powered by ETR. Be well everybody. And we'll see you next time. (gentle upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage VMworld 2020. Brought to you by the VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Everyone, welcome to "theCUBE's" virtual coverage of VMworld 2020. I'm John furrier with my cohosts, Stuart Miniman and Dave Vellante. 10 years covering VM it's our 11th Vmworld, 2010 was our first. Guys, this is an unusual event. It's not in person. Analyzing the keynotes and essentially the main announcements in the general sessions. Let's analyze VMworld 2020. I know it's hard, we're not in person. A lot of the hallway conversations we're grabbing on Twitter. Obviously we've got our Cube interviews on "theCube".net. There's a link on the front page of the VMworld site. Check it out and go check out all the dozens of interviews we're doing here with our community. But, the event is "Digital Foundation "For An Unpredictable World," that's the theme. Most of the announcements are around future architecture, but the blocking and tackling is around AI With NVIDIA. You got security and you got some really key announcements around networking Stuart. So guys, what's your take on all this? Because, VMware has to set the table. They've made good moves under Gelsinger, last few years, you're seeing another Q2 successful quarter, Dave, you're starting to see VMware's investments pay off Raghu and the brain child who are behind VMware making these calls Stuart. Guys, this is the VMware's moment to go to the next level. What's your thoughts, Dave, we'll start with you. >> Well, I mean, as always you saw VMware have on stage some really high profile guests. So John Donahoe from Nike, who knows a little bit about the enterprise, right? He left ServiceNow after a couple of years, stint. Ironically ServiceNow is pushing a hundred billion dollar valuation. Nike's at 150. But he's more comfortable in the consumer world. CEO of Nvidia. I think that's a key move, Nvidia the arm acquisition. That's going to be critical at the edge. You're seeing VMware just throw its blanket around telco Edge cloud with VMware cloud and AWS, which is doing very well. We're going to talk about that in our cube segment. You're, seeing them really go after hybrid. And so they're really about expanding their marketplace and they've done a great job of that. For translating engineering into customer value and getting paid for it. >> I want to come back to you Dave, on this edge because some of the key trends that I think we've been on now that the whole world is kind of realizing that they're kind of going mainstream. One's been the edge and you mentioned ARM, and we got analysis on that. Stuart, cloud native, we've been banging on the cloud native drone. We've been riding that wave, now with the Snowflake IPO just happened earlier, you starting to see cloud native, everything is coming true. It's kind of evolving in front of us right now and the whole world is now on board with this new mega trend enterprise computing companies, the largest IPO, since we enrolled, actually if you look at Snowflake, so you start to see cloud native and Enterprise Technology as the next wave, this is huge. And VMware is a big part of it. Your thoughts from how they did the show. >> Yeah, so John, one of the questions we always ask is, how fast are customers moving? Are the vendors moving along with them? Our friend and often co-hosts in "theCube" Keith Townsend said, and it was kind of faint praise. "VMware has moved at the speed of the CIO." Dave, I've heard you so many times this year say that the impact of the pandemic, that the financial ramifications has been an accelerator for many of the transformational journeys that we've been talking about. Move to cloud much faster adopting cloud native faster. Companies that have gone through their digital transformation, are able to react much faster. And to be honest, I'm not sure that VMware's moving fast enough. We've seen them do a number of big acquisitions over the last few years. Some of them are doing great. Carbon Black, great to see them go deeper into the security space. We've talked a lot about that before. Some of the others, Pivotal came out of VMware and got pulled back in. Datrium was a recent acquisition. What we hear inside is, some of those groups and product lines have been trimmed back. So as companies are looking to move faster, they're looking to AWS is that bar. And while AWS is a big partner for VMware and very important, how many people will get to VMware on AWS and say, well, maybe I can scale back what my VMware state is, or maybe those some environments. So, we've said for the longest time, cloud is a double edged sword for many players you need to partner as closely as you can to keep that momentum going forward. But VMware is also getting cut by some of those deals. Boy, John, there was a big news a couple of weeks before the show here about how the VMware cloud on AWS, it's doing great. And if it's a big deal, the channel often gets cut out of it and Amazon's taking it. So there definitely are some things that put up a little bit warning lights for me as to who is winning, when it comes to the partnership. >> That's a great point, the ecosystem in VMware, out of 10 years we've been covering here, this is our 11th year with ""theCube"," we've always had that ecosystems evolving. And I think cloud native to me really sees how that's driving them with cloud. We saw that, serverless, you starting to see cloud native. And what cloud proved Dave was that developers really shouldn't care about the infrastructure being abstracted away. But now you look at multiple clouds, with VMware's now moving into having a multicloud kind of backbone, connected to these environments as a key strategy. But then you look at the edge. The edge is about purpose built devices, run with software and data. So whether it's at an office on a person or in space, you have these devices that is really not about the hardware, it's about the software running on them. They have to run into multiple environments. They are purpose built. They do have to run like cloud native. The edge is the next opportunity for VMware with multicloud. What's your thoughts and reaction to that? >> Well, I think there's no question. And again, the relevance of Nvidia on stage, we think that ARM and Nvidia are going to dominate AI inferencing at the edge real time, and you're going to need much more efficient processing at the edge than you're going to get with traditional x86 architectures. So today what we're seeing is a lot of companies, Dell, HPE included a throwing over x86 boxes to the edge. I think they clearly realized that ARM is going to be a player there and now with the Nvidia move. And I think, multicloud is really something that is starting to become real. I've often said multi-cloud has been more of a symptom of multi-vendor than an actual strategy. Well, that's changing. I think people don't want lock-in. I think they realize that they've got the right horse for the right course, and you're seeing Red Hat and VMware emerge as real leaders there. You're seeing it in the data, you're seeing VMware cloud on AWS. Okay, that's in AWS, but you're also seeing VMware Cloud Foundation and it's other VMware cloud capabilities emerging as in demand, a lot of spending velocity, a lot of interest gaining share. And so these are becoming real and they're becoming fundamental strategies as to your points Stuart, CIO's are catching up. And it's, actually becoming not just slideware, but real aware. >> Well, I'll debate that whole idea that CIO's are catching up, but I'd say CSOs already caught up. CIO's are catching up to the CSO, but this brings up the question Stuart, of what a modern app is. And this is one of the highlights of the show, modern applications, and feels a lot like kind of window dressing to the cloud native conversation because Tanzu is built into it but cloud native really is. This is where the modern apps are being built. And it's about security, it's about multiple clouds. So the question for you is, are we going to have a cloudless architecture? Because we've got serverless. Because if you think about modern apps, should you really care about which cloud it runs on? I'm sure Andy Jassy would be saying he does care. And you see Google almost shying away from having that conversation. But, Tanzu kind of speaks to a cloudless strategy. Is that something you see? >> John you're absolutely right. The goal we want is... Developers don't even want to think about the infrastructure at all. So cloudless serverless, storageless, it would all be wonderful if they didn't have to do that. Now, of course, data is the lifeblood of my business. We need to make sure that things are secure all the time. Serverless is wonderful and there's even some early connections that VMware and others in the traditional infrastructure space are tying to serverless environment. But if I look at VMware, John, this still isn't, where the app dev team people come, this is an infrastructure show and it needs to be an enabler for what they're doing. If you look at how Kubernetes integrates into VMware, it's, take your virtual estate and let's put containers in it and it can be managed in that environment. Or we've got some new tools we're developing and do some of that multicloud world, as opposed to the companies that are born in the cloud, or have a heavy leaning towards the cloud. This might not be attractive for them, but in many ways, it's extending what VMware has done for a long time. They've, got strong position here. And that's why John, as you've said, all the other clouds want to partner with VMware ' 'cause they've got just so many customers there that they will be... it's hybrid today it will be hybrid in the future. The public cloud is a pool, but the edge is also a pool. So that those new architectures like are starting to be put forward with project Monterey, give people a roadmap as to where they can go. And VMware absolutely is a key player in that discussion. >> Yeah, well, I want to bring this up real quick on project Monterey and then I want to get Dave's reaction too what the buyers are thinking about. 'Cause you know, we can debate the speed of the CIO and I'd love to have that debate in a separate segment. I think,COVID and the security threats are forcing the businesses to really be focused because if you not thinking about having an environment where people are working remotely and that's with COVID, and I'll see with the security vectors, if you don't have an architecture Stuart, then you're going to be screwed. So I think project Monterey feels to me as that VMware answer like, look, and you can have an end to end architecture. I think there's marketechure there's architecture, that's one thought. So let's react to that Stuart. How much of that do you see as, look at, if you want to move faster CIO, because they have to now move fast. COVID showed that and the ones that aren't are failing and it doesn't change the buyer behavior, Dave. Stuart we'll start with you Monterey. >> John I don't think we know yet. It is more marketecture I'd say you got to get into the whisper suites, have those discussions. There was not as much, pre-briefing on this. We talked for awhile, VMware on AWS, those solutions, they take two or three years to bake out. So I think Monterey is a good vision. They have some of the architectural underpinnings, but I'm not ready to say, "hey, you want to deploy that gear in 2020? "That's the blueprint that you want to use going forward," but it gets VMware a seat at the table. >> I'm a big fan of the project I think it's about time someone put a stake in the ground. So this is what a modern architecture looks like and love to debate that further, we'll do that another time, Dave buyers. Were they buying the VMware? What's your data tell you in terms of where the customers are right now in 2020, you've been doing a ton of breaking analysis on COVID fire behavior, spending patterns. How does VMware potentially its ecosystem stack up with all these focused cloud native, multicloud modern app and security and networking? >> Well, let's start with some data and I'll bring up this slide, which is this kind of wheel slide. And it's ETR data that talks to what we call net score. And essentially what it's doing is it's taking the green in this wheel, which is spending more and it's subtracting the red, which is spending less or leaving. And then you see that in the middle is 53% are flat. So they've got a net score at 29. What does that mean? That means this is a mature company, which is amazing to me that VMware continues to really outperform from a financial standpoint. Yeah, so you could see that, we subtract the red from the green. This is again a sign of a mature company, but the key is they've got to continue to invest. Now they make a lot of inorganic acquisitions and some organic acquisitions, but Dell, as we know, is using VMware's cashflow to restructure its balance sheet to go public, et cetera. So if you could bring up the next slide, if you would guys. This is a slide I like to share. And it shows in the vertical axis, spending momentum, which is net score and the horizontal axis, which is presence in the survey. It's a 1200 person survey or a respondent survey, IT buyers. Look where VMware cloud on AWS is. So while VMware has a 29%, net score, look at VMware cloud on AWS, look at VMware cloud, which is cloud foundation. And you can see Red Hat is in there with OpenShift, even OpenStack, believe it or not and telcos. And then just see the hyperscalers in the upper right. Everybody wants to be AWS or Azure, and you sort of see Google there. But the point of this is the momentum in hybrid cloud and multicloud, and VMware really is clearly in a very, very strong position there. So, back to your point about project Monterey, they're basically using this hybrid cloud notion to go everywhere. It's that TAM expansion that I love to talk about. And it's the innovation. The big question is if Dell's going to be squeezing VMware R&D, will it be able to continue to execute on that translation of engineering into product and customer value? That's going to be a challenge. We saw it decades ago, where IBM got squeezed doing stock buybacks and dividends R&D is the lifeblood of innovation. And so that's something that we have to watch very closely, I think. >> Just to one quick followup, Dave, we're talking about the financial pieces here we are in 2020, there's been the discussions and I know you've dug into it a bunch. By the time we get to VMworld 2021 will the ownership of VMware and the role that Michael Dell has, change? And will that impact that investment capability that you talked about? The cashflow just, I know you've done a lot of research on this and could it help educate our audience? >> Well, it's going to change the income statement of Dell because they won't have VMware in there anymore. It won't change VMware's cashflow. It will affect VMware and Dell's balance sheet. And so two companies, one chairman and the chairman is going to say, okay, let's rebalance the balance sheets and create an equilibrium. So Dell has less debt, VMware has more debt and we'll try to thread the needle so they're both investment grade, which will lower the interest costs on that debt. But fundamentally, I don't think it's going to change anything in terms of strategy, go to market, the close relationship was between Dell and VMware. the thing to watch is VMware's, Dell's piggyback. And so I would rather see a lot of that go... once this equilibrium is reached, I want to see that go more in R&D. You know, again, remember IBM has spent $6 billion in R&D for the past two decades IBM was right there. They could have invested in cloud the same way Amazon did. And in the same way that Microsoft did, they were kind of equal 20 years ago. And look what happened. You don't want that to happen to VMware. They must continue to spend on R&D and innovate. >> Oh, well let's get to the innovation strategy in a second, but I want to ask the ecosystem question, because if you go back in history guys, and remember when Pat Gelsinger had that year, where he was basically given the presentation of his life, and he was in the hot seat and there's a lot of rumors spinning around. Since then it's just been nothing but exceptional performance on as a company executing, all new bets have been played it's almost like he'd cleaned house, put the ship in the right direction they've been smooth sailing since strategically making all the right moves. Okay now that VMware is back on their footings and Dave they have a solid foundation, what happens to the ecosystem because now that their houses in order, what do they do with the ecosystem? How do you see it evolving? >> Well look, I mean the ecosystem is looking for alternatives. I mean they have to participate in VMware. It's part of their go to market. You remember Todd Neilson used to say, "For every dollar spend on a VMware license, "15 or 20 or $18 is spent in the ecosystem," you don't hear that type of ratio anymore. Maybe it still exists I'm sure it does because it's a very vibrant and robust ecosystem but look, let's face it. Jeff Clark and Michael Dell are very clear. We are going to do a much closer integration than EMC ever did. And look at HPE we're looking for alternatives, driving to the edge. That's a huge opportunity for people. VMware becomes the ecosystems cash cow, but they need new growth and new strategic opportunities. And so they got to play nice, but there's more green fields out there. >> Stuart multicloud and cloud native with Tansu I think this is a really big opportunity to reset the ecosystem with services, because it used to be vendors, you bolt on some data backup and recovery, and you have a bunch of people doing storage around VMware, and these big white spaces, they're kind of huge white spaces. But now, when you start getting into cloud native, is a whole new landscape developing. Your thoughts because we're seeing some activity, certainly companies that are building on top of clouds that are building on top of clouds. So you've got Snowflake builds on Amazon now, other clouds and you have companies building on Snowflake. So you're starting to see this kind of new interconnected cloud native landscape, your thoughts. >> Yeah, well John there's definitely a huge tug of war in the ecosystem. One of the things that's been really nice if you were a VMware partner, let's take data protection. Huge ecosystem companies like Veeam, that were created in that environment. Hot companies like Rubrik and Cohesity grew very much working in VMware. All of them now play natively with the cloud environments, but they also get pulled along when you do a VMware Cloud on AWS, on Azure, on Google, on Oracle. So VMware will pull some of the ecosystem with them, but that tug of war is well, if the customer decides to just go fully cloud native, that software needs to work there and you would think that the vendor actually makes more money if it's just natively there, there's not that middleman extra piece. So VMware has a slice the pie and like Microsoft or Oracle behind them, can they justify that value for the license that you're paying when I go to some of these environments. So VMware does not have the pull in the ecosystem Dave talked a bit about it. HPE, Cisco, IBM, all companies that were early, early big huge proponent of VMware now very much are investing heavily in alternative. So VMware major player but no longer the gravity that everyone orbits around. >> Dave, what do you think? >> I want to bring up another data point if I could I want to share something with you. This is a slide that talks about... It asks customers. Why would you not work with VMware? Why would you replace them? What are the reasons? And three things stand out to me, it's not around cloud on the very left alignment with Cloud they've taken care of that with the AWS deal and even now Oracle. And you look at the right hand side, you see technology lead or lag that's innovation. Look at how that gray a couple surveys ago, has gone down to the yellow. So that's off the table, not a problem with innovation, look at total cost of ownership that's gone down, in terms of concerns. The one concern is price and that stays up there. If that's your biggest challenge, that your price is too high, that says to me that VMware's ticking all the boxes of value. So they're in a really, really good position if they can continue to innovate and that's why I've been harping so much on innovation and R&D and key acquisitions they're are great acquire of companies. So, I see this as this data is very, very positive for VMware. If your price is too high and that's your big objection, all you need as good salespeople. >> Or also you'd lower the price and you shift the value to say new features, say cloud native or security. I'll see the movement they've been making with NSX Gelsinger famous quotes are things like, "Kubernetes the dial tone of the internet, "and NSX is the crown jewel security is a do over." So NSX Dave and Stuart, this been a big part of their theme every year. That's a core feature for their security play. That's where they're going to put a lot of value in there. You guys, what's your thoughts on that because you've got Cisco in going that " mh we're frenemies" that's what Sanjay Poonen says, but are they really frenemies? >> But culturally VMware is an engineering driven company they a great engineering team and they don't have dogma about these new... they don't get defensive about some new trends. They embraced Kubernetes, they finally figured out Cloud, they were sort of defensive originally, but they realized hey, and they got religion. So that's the smart thing to do, go on to the next way maybe take a little bit of heat if you've got to go through a transition, but they've done a phenomenal job of making those transitions and staying relevant >> What's the big wave guys? What's the big wave that VMware's riding? The 10 years out we're in we've seen the movie, we've been through a decade with VM world coverage Stuart Dave next 10 years, what's the big wave or waves plural? >> Well, cloud is the first one that they addressed no doubt and then they are in my mind, the leader, or certainly a leader in multicloud. Edge I think there's a big question Mark there, AI is going to be everywhere. I think security is the really interesting opportunity for VMware and it's going to be... the big battle and security is, do you go after these point products like Okta and CrowdStrike and Zscaler and SailPoint who are really doing very well right now in the market or do you want an integrated stack that can be, you good enough VMware will say it's best to breed. We'll see that is a huge opportunity for them because security just keeps getting more and more critical. We've seen that with COVID. >> Let's do final word on your thoughts on the next 10 years for VMware looking back and learn and looking forward. >> Yeah well Dave just building off what you were just saying there, we said that the mission for Pat Gelsinger was, could he do for VMware, what Indel had done for the longest time, which has expanded Tam, expand what markets to go into, but not completely tick off the ecosystem and have them run away. So you saw here at the show, I mean Dave, Zscaler is a partner there. Security absolutely is a monster opportunity and John networking, networking, right. But it should be multibillion dollar business for VMware and they can eat some of that multicloud environment. we talk specifically about SD-WAN, now that cloud's doing well. So VMware that's software across environments, hybrid cloud multicloud, they're well positioned today, they just need to move a little bit faster and make sure they don't bleed talent and continue to support their customers because Dave, you're right how many times have people said, "Microsoft too expensive. "Oracle's too expensive." Here we are in 2020, they still have pretty strong positions VMware still has a very strong position. >> Well, I'll just add, I think it just shows what happens when you have a technical visionary, like Gelsinger in the lead and you have an industry visionary of not just technical, not just financial, but industry luminary like Michael Dell. These are very powerful... VMware and Dell have extremely capable management teams and you're seeing it in action >> And you've got Sanjay Poonen who's a great executer as well, he knows how to execute, he knows technology. Guys it's been a great run. I got to say for me personally, I'm so excited that, for 10 years that we've had "theCube" and the team covering the enterprise tech space, you can't be more excited. At least I'm so excited at the number one IPO in the history of wall street is an enterprise tech company. You can't see any more proof points that enterprise technology is now with the whole end to end architecture with the edge. We're talking about space, we're talking about cybersecurity. We're having now conversations with "theCube" that is now ranging... It reminds me David of the B to C world it's almost like consumerized. Now the enterprise technology is now so important that is now taking over the appeal on wall street entrepreneurs, and to me, VMware can tap into that on this next wave and this will be huge. Your thoughts on- >> I think the Snowflake IPO tells us several things. One, I totally agree, it says the technology is the now trend, no question about it. It also really underscores the cloud and it underscores the demand for issues other than the big Apple, Amazon, Google, et cetera. But it's really interesting to see as well the street continues to reward growth. I mean, Snowflake has as a valuation higher than Workday comparable to VMware. In fact it exceeded VMware on its first day. So that says that the street is rewarding growth. It's rewarding technology, it's rewarding cloud. And so that's that to me says great opportunities for companies like VMware who have both growth, great cash flow, they're profitable and they have a huge, huge customer base. So right now things look good for tech >> Dave enterprise tech is hot, it's sexy. Don't you think? Enterprise tech these days? >> Used to be storage is sexy. Now Enterprise tech sexy. >> You guys great run great analysis again, VMworld's virtual, we didn't have the face to face. We didn't have the hang space, but we have the virtual cube. Virtualization has come to "theCube". We have multiple tracks on our site, check out the content. Thanks for the analysis guys. Great keynote announcement coverage of the Vmworld 2020. This is "theCube". Thanks for watching. (digital music)

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back. Everyone's Cube Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, for AWS. Reinforce Amazon Web sources. First inaugural conference around security. It's not Osama. It's a branded event. Big time ecosystem developing. We have returning here. Cube Alumni Bill Jeff for VP of strategy and the partnerships that Iron Net Cyber Security Company. Welcome back. Thanks. General Keith Alexander, who was on a week and 1/2 ago. And it was public sector summit. Good to see you. Good >> to see you. Thanks for >> having my back, but I want to get into some of the Iran cyber communities. We had General Qi 1000. He was the original commander of the division. So important discussions that have around that. But don't get your take on the event. You guys, you're building a business. The minute cyber involved in public sector. This is commercial private partnership. Public relations coming together. Yeah. Your models are sharing so bringing public and private together important. >> Now that's exactly right. And it's really great to be here with eight of us were really close partner of AWS is we'll work with them our entire back in today. Runs on AWS really need opportunity. Get into the ecosystem, meet some of the folks that are working that we might work with my partner but to deliver a great product, right? And you're seeing a lot of people move to cloud, right? And so you know some of the big announcement that are happening here today. We're willing. We're looking to partner up with eight of us and be a first time provider for some key new Proactiv elves. AWS is launching in their own platform here today. So that's a really neat thing for us to be partnered up with this thing. Awesome organization. I'm doing some of >> the focus areas around reinforcing your party with Amazon shares for specifics. >> Yes. So I don't know whether they announced this capability where they're doing the announcement yesterday or today. So I forget which one so I'll leave that leave that leave that once pursued peace out. But the main thing is, they're announcing couple of new technology plays way our launch party with them on the civility place. So we're gonna be able to do what we were only wanted to do on Prem. We're gonna be able to do in the cloud with AWS in the cloud formation so that we'll deliver the same kind of guy that would deliver on prime customers inside their own cloud environments and their hybrid environment. So it's a it's a it's a sea change for us. The company, a sea change for a is delivering that new capability to their customers and really be able to defend a cloud network the way you would nonpregnant game changer >> described that value, if you would. >> Well, so you know, one of the key things about about a non pregnant where you could do you could look at all the flows coming past you. You look at all the data, look at in real time and develop behavior. Lana looks over. That's what we're doing our own prime customers today in the cloud with his world who looked a lox, right? And now, with the weight of your capability, we're gonna be able to integrate that and do a lot Maur the way we would in a in a in a normal sort of on Prem environment. So you really did love that. Really? Capability of scale >> Wagon is always killed. The predictive analytics, our visibility and what you could do. And too late. Exactly. Right. You guys solve that with this. What are some of the challenges that you see in cloud security that are different than on premise? Because that's the sea, So conversation we've been hearing. Sure, I know on premise. I didn't do it on premises for awhile. What's the difference between the challenge sets, the challenges and the opportunities they provide? >> Well, the opportunities air really neat, right? Because you've got that even they have a shared responsibility model, which is a little different than you officially have it. When it's on Prem, it's all yours essential. You own that responsibility and it is what it is in the cloud. Its share responsible to cloud provider the data holder. Right? But what's really cool about the cloud is you could deliver some really interesting Is that scale you do patch updates simultaneously, all your all your back end all your clients systems, even if depending how your provisioning cloud service is, you could deliver that update in real time. You have to worry about. I got to go to individual systems and update them, and some are updated. Summer passed. Some aren't right. Your servers are packed simultaneously. You take him down, you're bringing back up and they're ready to go, right? That's a really capability that for a sigh. So you're delivering this thing at scale. It's awesome now, So the challenge is right. It's a new environment so that you haven't dealt with before. A lot of times you feel the hybrid environment governed both an on Prem in sanitation and class sensation. Those have to talkto one another, right? And you might think about Well, how do I secure those those connections right now? And I think about spending money over here when I got all seduced to spend up here in the cloud. And that's gonna be a hard thing precisely to figure out, too. And so there are some challenges, but the great thing is, you got a whole ecosystem. Providers were one of them here in the AWS ecosystem. There are a lot here today, and you've got eight of us as a part of self who wants to make sure that they're super secure, but so are yours. Because if you have a problem in their cloud, that's a challenge. Them to market this other people. You talk about >> your story because your way interviews A couple weeks ago, you made a comment. I'm a recovering lawyer, kind of. You know, we all laughed, but you really start out in law, right? >> How did you end up here? Yeah, well, the truth is, I grew up sort of a technology or myself. My first computer is a trash 80 a trs 80 color computer. RadioShack four k of RAM on board, right. We only >> a true TRS 80. Only when I know what you're saying. That >> it was a beautiful system, right? Way stored with sword programs on cassette tapes. Right? And when we operated from four Keita 16 k way were the talk of the Rainbow Computer Club in Santa Monica, California Game changer. It was a game here for 16. Warning in with 60 give onboard. Ram. I mean, this is this is what you gonna do. And so you know, I went from that and I in >> trouble or something, you got to go to law school like you're right >> I mean, you know, look, I mean, you know it. So my dad, that was a chemist, right? So he loved computers, love science. But he also had an unrequited political boners body. He grew up in East Africa, Tanzania. It was always thought that he might be a minister in government. The Socialist came to power. They they had to leave you at the end of the day. And he came to the states and doing chemistry, which is course studies. But he still loved politics. So he raised at NPR. So when I went to college, I studied political science. But I paid my way through college doing computer support, life sciences department at the last moment. And I ran 10 based. He came on climate through ceilings and pulled network cable do punch down blocks, a little bit of fibrous placing. So, you know, I was still a murderer >> writing software in the scythe. >> One major, major air. And that was when when the web first came out and we had links. Don't you remember? That was a text based browser, right? And I remember looking to see him like this is terrible. Who would use http slash I'm going back to go for gophers. Awesome. Well, turns out I was totally wrong about Mosaic and Netscape. After that, it was It was it was all hands on >> deck. You got a great career. Been involved a lot in the confluence of policy politics and tech, which is actually perfect skill set for the challenge we're dealing. So I gotta ask you, what are some of the most important conversations that should be on the table right now? Because there's been a lot of conversations going on around from this technology. I has been around for many decades. This has been a policy problem. It's been a societal problem. But now this really focus on acute focus on a lot of key things. What are some of the most important things that you think should be on the table for techies? For policymakers, for business people, for lawmakers? >> One. I think we've got to figure out how to get really technology knowledge into the hands of policymakers. Right. You see, you watch the Facebook hearings on Capitol Hill. I mean, it was a joke. It was concerning right? I mean, anybody with a technology background to be concerned about what they saw there, and it's not the lawmakers fault. I mean, you know, we've got to empower them with that. And so we got to take technologist, threw it out, how to get them to talk policy and get them up on the hill and in the administration talking to folks, right? And one of the big outcomes, I think, has to come out of that conversation. What do we do about national level cybersecurity, Right, because we assume today that it's the rule. The private sector provides cyber security for their own companies, but in no other circumstance to expect that when it's a nation state attacker, wait. We don't expect Target or Wal Mart or any other company. J. P. Morgan have surface to air missiles on the roofs of their warehouses or their buildings to Vegas Russian bear bombers. Why, that's the job of the government. But when it comes to cyberspace, we expect Private Cummings defending us everything from a script kiddie in his basement to the criminal hacker in Eastern Europe to the nation state, whether Russia, China, Iran or North Korea and these nation states have virtually a limited resource. Your armies did >> sophisticated RND technology, and it's powerful exactly like a nuclear weaponry kind of impact for digital. >> Exactly. And how can we expect prices comes to defend themselves? It's not. It's not a fair fight. And so the government has to have some role. The questions? What role? How did that consist with our values, our principles, right? And how do we ensure that the Internet remains free and open, while still is sure that the president is not is not hampered in doing its job out there. And I love this top way talk about >> a lot, sometimes the future of warfare. Yeah, and that's really what we're talking about. You go back to Stuxnet, which opened Pandora's box 2016 election hack where you had, you know, the Russians trying to control the mean control, the narrative. As you pointed out, that that one video we did control the belief system you control population without firing a shot. 20 twenties gonna be really interesting. And now you see the U. S. Retaliate to Iran in cyberspace, right? Allegedly. And I was saying that we had a conversation with Robert Gates a couple years ago and I asked him. I said, Should we be Maur taking more of an offensive posture? And he said, Well, we have more to lose than the other guys Glasshouse problem? Yeah, What are your thoughts on? >> Look, certainly we rely intimately, inherently on the cyber infrastructure that that sort of is at the core of our economy at the core of the world economy. Increasingly, today, that being said, because it's so important to us all the more reason why we can't let attacks go Unresponded to write. And so if you're being attacked in cyberspace, you have to respond at some level because if you don't, you'll just keep getting punched. It's like the kid on the playground, right? If the bully keeps punching him and nobody does anything, not not the not the school administration, not the kid himself. Well, then the boy's gonna keep doing what he's doing. And so it's not surprising that were being tested by Iran by North Korea, by Russia by China, and they're getting more more aggressive because when we don't punch back, that's gonna happen. Now we don't have to punch back in cyberspace, right? A common sort of fetish about Cyrus is a >> response to the issue is gonna respond to the bully in this case, your eggs. Exactly. Playground Exactly. We'll talk about the Iran. >> So So if I If I if I can't Yeah, the response could be Hey, we could do this. Let them know you could Yes. And it's a your move >> ate well, And this is the key is that it's not just responding, right. So Bob Gates or told you we can't we talk about what we're doing. And even in the latest series of alleged responses to Iran, the reason we keep saying alleged is the U. S has not publicly acknowledged it, but the word has gotten out. Well, of course, it's not a particularly effective deterrence if you do something, but nobody knows you did it right. You gotta let it out that you did it. And frankly, you gotta own it and say, Hey, look, that guy punch me, I punch it back in the teeth. So you better not come after me, right? We don't do that in part because these cables grew up in the intelligence community at N S. A and the like, and we're very sensitive about that But the truth is, you have to know about your highest and capabilities. You could talk about your abilities. You could say, Here are my red lines. If you cross him, I'm gonna punch you back. If you do that, then by the way, you've gotta punch back. They'll let red lines be crossed and then not respond. And then you're gonna talk about some level of capabilities. It can't all be secret. Can't all be classified. Where >> are we in this debate? Me first. Well, you're referring to the Thursday online attack against the intelligence Iranian intelligence community for the tanker and the drone strike that they got together. Drone take down for an arm in our surveillance drones. >> But where are we >> in this debate of having this conversation where the government should protect and serve its people? And that's the role. Because if a army rolled in fiscal army dropped on the shores of Manhattan, I don't think Citibank would be sending their people out the fight. Right? Right. So, like, this is really happening. >> Where are we >> on this? Like, is it just sitting there on the >> table? What's happening? What's amazing about it? Hi. This was getting it going well, that that's a Q. What's been amazing? It's been happening since 2012 2011 right? We know about the Las Vegas Sands attack right by Iran. We know about North Korea's. We know about all these. They're going on here in the United States against private sector companies, not against the government. And there's largely been no response. Now we've seen Congress get more active. Congress just last year passed to pass legislation that gave Cyber command the authority on the president's surgery defenses orders to take action against Russia, Iran, North Korea and China. If certain cyber has happened, that's a good thing, right to give it. I'll be giving the clear authority right, and it appears the president willing to make some steps in that direction, So that's a positive step. Now, on the back end, though, you talk about what we do to harden ourselves, if that's gonna happen, right, and the government isn't ready today to defend the nation, even though the Constitution is about providing for the common defense, and we know that the part of defense for long. For a long time since Secretary Panetta has said that it is our mission to defend the nation, right? But we know they're not fully doing that. How do they empower private sector defense and one of keys That has got to be Look, if you're the intelligence community or the U. S. Government, you're Clinton. Tremendous sense of Dad about what you're seeing in foreign space about what the enemy is doing, what they're preparing for. You have got to share that in real time at machine speed with industry. And if you're not doing that and you're still count on industry to be the first line defense, well, then you're not empowered. That defense. And if you're on a pair of the defense, how do you spend them to defend themselves against the nation? State threats? That's a real cry. So >> much tighter public private relationship. >> Absolutely, absolutely. And it doesn't have to be the government stand in the front lines of the U. S. Internet is, though, is that you could even determine the boundaries of the U. S. Internet. Right? Nobody wants an essay or something out there doing that, but you do want is if you're gonna put the private sector in the in the line of first defense. We gotta empower that defense if you're not doing that than the government isn't doing its job. And so we gonna talk about this for a long time. I worked on that first piece of information sharing legislation with the House chairman, intelligence Chairman Mike Rogers and Dutch Ruppersberger from Maryland, right congressman from both sides of the aisle, working together to get a fresh your decision done that got done in 2015. But that's just a first step. The government's got to be willing to share classified information, scaled speed. We're still not seeing that. Yeah, How >> do people get involved? I mean, like, I'm not a political person. I'm a moderate in the middle. But >> how do I How do people get involved? How does the technology industry not not the >> policy budgets and the top that goes on the top tech companies, how to tech workers or people who love Tad and our patriots and or want freedom get involved? What's the best approach? >> Well, that's a great question. I think part of is learning how to talk policy. How do we get in front policymakers? Right. And we're I run. I run a think tank on the side at the National Institute at George Mason University's Anton Scalia Law School Way have a program funded by the Hewlett Foundation who were bringing in technologists about 25 of them. Actually. Our next our second event. This Siri's is gonna be in Chicago this weekend. We're trained these technologies, these air data scientists, engineers and, like talk Paul's right. These are people who said We want to be involved. We just don't know how to get involved And so we're training him up. That's a small program. There's a great program called Tech Congress, also funded by the U. A. Foundation that places technologists in policy positions in Congress. That's really cool. There's a lot of work going on, but those are small things, right. We need to do this, its scale. And so you know, what I would say is that their technology out there want to get involved, reach out to us, let us know well with our partners to help you get your information and dad about what's going on. Get your voice heard there. A lot of organizations to that wanna get technologies involved. That's another opportunity to get in. Get in the building is a >> story that we want to help tell on be involved in David. I feel passion about this. Is a date a problem? So there's some real tech goodness in there. Absolutely. People like to solve hard problems, right? I mean, we got a couple days of them. You've got a big heart problems. It's also for all the people out there who are Dev Ops Cloud people who like to work on solving heart problems. >> We got a lot >> of them. Let's do it. So what's going on? Iron? Give us the update Could plug for the company. Keith Alexander found a great guy great guests having on the Cube. That would give the quick thanks >> so much. So, you know, way have done two rounds of funding about 110,000,000. All in so excited. We have partners like Kleiner Perkins Forge point C five all supporting us. And now it's all about We just got a new co CEO in Bill Welshman. See Scaler and duo. So he grew Z scaler. $1,000,000,000 valuation he came in to do Oh, you know, they always had a great great exit. Also, we got him. We got Sean Foster in from from From Industry also. So Bill and Sean came together. We're now making this business move more rapidly. We're moving to the mid market. We're moving to a cloud platform or aggressively and so exciting times and iron it. We're coming toe big and small companies near you. We've got the capability. We're bringing advanced, persistent defense to bear on his heart problems that were threat analytics. I collected defence. That's the key to our operation. We're excited >> to doing it. I call N S A is a service, but that's not politically correct. But this is the Cube, so >> Well, look, if you're not, if you want to defensive scale, right, you want to do that. You know, ECE knows how to do that key down here at the forefront of that when he was in >> the government. Well, you guys are certainly on the cutting edge, riding that wave of common societal change technology impact for good, for defence, for just betterment, not make making a quick buck. Well, you know, look, it's a good business model by the way to be in that business. >> I mean, It's on our business cards. And John Xander means it. Our business. I'd say the Michigan T knows that he really means that, right? Rather private sector. We're looking to help companies to do the right thing and protect the nation, right? You know, I protect themselves >> better. Well, our missions to turn the lights on. Get those voices out there. Thanks for coming on. Sharing the lights. Keep covers here. Day one of two days of coverage. Eight of us reinforce here in Boston. Stay with us for more Day one after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live, from the Mandalay Bay Convention Center in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2016. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem sponsors. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Stu Miniman. >> Welcome back, everyone. We're live here in Las Vegas for VMworld 2016. This is SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE. It's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier and my co-host this week, Stu Minniman, for three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Our next guest is the chairman and CEO of Dell Technologies, Inc., that's the first time we've actually used that. Congratulations on, I think last Thursday or Wednesday, the name officially became Dell Technology. Michael Dell, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you. Super excited to be with you and obviously super excited about the formation of Dell Technologies as we bring together Dell and EMC and VMware and Pivotal and RSA and Virtustream and SecureWorks and so many other great organizations. >> So Dell Technology, now it's official, but EMC, Dell EMC is not yet official. Quick, give us the update. That's the number one thing people are asking. What's the update with the merger and the China situation. What's the quick update there from your standpoint? >> You know, we announced this back in October of last year and we're very much on track with the original timeline that we said, which was that we'd close between May and October of this year, and on the original terms. So everything is moving along and we're making great progress. >> Chinese government not playing monkey business with you, looking at the big mega-merger and thinking, whoa, slow down. >> We're continuing to work with them, and as I said, we're on track with the original schedule and terms that we said when we announced it back in October of last year. >> Exciting things on the global landscape, we'll get to that in a second. But I want to get your thoughts on VMworld because this is a geek show and this is a technology show and on the keynote they're showing debugging ports, migrating from the cloud, I mean you don't see that. You usually see the pomp and circumstance, all the glamour. Here, I mean you're a geek, you're always getting down and dirty with the technology. Thoughts on this community, because this is, these guys roll their sleeves up. And by the way, they're very vocal on social media so you can always get the Twitter feed, but your thoughts on VMworld, the culture of this ecosystem? >> I thought the demos that Guido showed were incredibly cool, showing sort of the evolution of virtualization to the software-defined data center to the hybrid cloud to now Cross-Cloud and all the things that you can do. And as you saw, live examples with Citibank and Columbia and J & J, these are real live organizations. And of course at VMworld you have the ecosystem of VMware in all of its glory, with the whole industry coming together and, as you said, a passionate group of individuals that are excited about what they're doing and VMware is kind of a big part of how the industry is evolving. And we're thrilled be an even bigger part of it now than we have been in the past. It's not my first time to come to VMworld, of course. >> But again, with now Dell Technologies looming, and the merger is going to be a big part of that. >> Yes. >> Technologies, and I'll ask that specific question later. But I do want to get your thoughts as someone who has been in the industry as a power broker, founder, CEO, now going private, you've seen all the waves of innovation. The ecosystem has become a really important part of it in your world there was the Wintel and the developer communities during those days, for the software business, aka the computer industry per se, but now we're on a new inflection point where the computer industry-like movement is happening with cloud and data center, hyper-converged environments. What does the ecosystem mean? Because we've seen the ecosystem kind of sitting there kind of waiting for this explosion with the cloud. Your thoughts on what the ecosystem means in this new era, vis-a-vis other times in history? >> You know, I don't see them waiting. You think about the kind of armada of companies that are coming along as the ecosystem evolves. Again, you see it out there on the show floor. You take NSX as an example. There's tremendous growth in software-defined networking. And NSX is kind of leading the way. And you see all the leading networking companies in the world here at VMworld using NSX as the platform for the software-defined network. It's just another great example. The original growth in the hypervisor and then into software-defined storage, software-defined networking and you can, if you look further on the show floor, right, you'll see kind of software-defined everything. And all aspects of the network, layers four through seven, eventually being virtualized. From the cutting edge -- >> John: So, virtualized stack. >> New things all the way to the mainstream and of course there's a lot of growth in our industry around converged and hyper-converged because it's making it easy to deploy these solutions in a rapid fashion and we're right in the middle of all this. >> So Michael, you speak pretty passionately about VMware and their role in the ecosystem. There's still a lot of noise out there that people I don't think understand how you're going to finance the debt and there's many people, like still during the keynote this morning, they're like, as soon as the deal's done, VMware is going to be sold off. Really, hardware companies don't want to do software. >> Absolutely incorrect. That's totally wrong. Anybody that says that has no clue what they're talking about. So look, I think first thing is you've got do do some math. If you look at the combined cash flows of Dell and EMC and VMware, what you find is they're many, many times greater than the debt service. And so we have, in fact, an advantage capital structure that allows us to not only do what we're doing and have tremendous scale and investment in innovation, roughly $4.5 billion annually invested in R & D, the largest enterprise systems company in the world, the strongest supply chain, and also have the speed and flexibility with some of these new startup instances. You guys are familiar with what we're doing with Pivotal and Cloud Foundry and all the great things that are going on there. With SecureWorks, with Boomi, so we've got both the speed and agility of a startup plus the scale and breadth with the broadest ecosystem and access to customers, and while we're here at VMworld, we're not just about VMware, right? Dell Technologies is a company that embraces all of the major ecosystems, be it the Microsoft ecosystem, the Linux and OpenStack and container ecosystems. So the hardware platforms that we're creating allow customers the broadest set of solutions to be able to stand up against their requirements. >> So back at Dell World, Michael, you talked about, you had Satya Nadella up on stage, how Microsoft fits and understanding, you know, in many ways Dell Technologies is an arms supplier to a lot of environments. You've got the enterprise data center. You've got the public cloud. Where do you see VMware in this evolving multi-cloud very varied ecosystem? >> I think if you look at VMware's business in the first half of this year, it's done quite well. And when I look at the trends for the forward outlook and kind of growth characteristics, VMware is making a very nice transition into this emerging cloud world. And it's doing that by taking the whole virtualization and software-defined technologies beyond the hypervisor into the whole software-defined data center. And things like the VMware Cloud Foundations make it a lot easier to do that, whether you're doing it on premise in a private cloud or whether you're a service provider, a telco, an IBM, for example. And I think you'll see others as well. And customers that have embranced VMware and of course there are 500,000 plus around the world, are looking for ways to be able to extend out to the public cloud. And the kinds of announcements you saw today with IBM, with the VMware Cross-Cloud initiative, will allow for this to extend deep into the public clouds. >> We're getting some questions from Twitter. I'll read a few of them here. Two questions. Have you met Chairman Chang and what's he like? And two, what of the technologies in the portfolio are you most excited about. And I asked VMware or Dell Technologies and they asked, both. So two questions. Have you met Chairman Chang and what's he like? And what technology are you most excited about? >> I have met a number of the distinguished folks over in China for sure, whether it be in one on one meetings or in group meetings and I'm over there on a pretty regular basis. China is the second largest market in the world for Dell to sell its products. So it's also the second largest economy in the world so that shouldn't be too surprising. But we have roughly $5.5 billion business in China, a big part of our supply chain. On the second question, you know, it's kind of like saying >> John: Your favorite child. >> Which of your children do you love the most, right? So that's not, you can get in a lot of trouble with that. But when I look across the whole -- >> We need to categorize here. I'll just rephrase the question because I think that's, I mean that's a political response, I get that. But let's go into, where do you see the disruption coming from? If you had to point out a disruptive enabler that is a lever for the portfolio, where would you look at and say okay, that's going to be a real enabling technology that's going to one, propel Dell on a domestic and global basis, and two, power the ecosystem? >> I think this digital transformation is real. And I think that we are at the very beginning of this period of time where the cost to make things intelligent is approaching zero and the number of them is going to explode. And so the influence and impact that our industry has on the world will expand geometrically as a result. And so the challenge that every organization is going to have, is how do you take all this information in real time and also in time series, because I think there will be some value to the historical data, and turn it into better insights, to be able to make better decisions, to make better products and services. And we're just at the very beginning of that. So, to me, that is the most exciting thing going on and obviously, we're right in the middle of that from lots of different perspectives. >> I've got to ask you a personal question. And I want to get your thoughts on this as someone who's been in the industry and is a chess master, 3D chess player, also running a big business, global business, billions of dollars. In 1994, Bill Gates wrote The Road Ahead and he talked about the future and he completely missed the internet in his forward-looking book. And I bring that up because now we're living in a time where IOT and autonomous vehicles, looking at digital state, digital transformation is a big part of that, so I ask the question, do you worry about missing something? I don't mean FOMO, fear of missing out, but there are big moves being made like technology in autonomous vehicles, drones, all this AI going on, machine learning, do you look at that and go hmmm. Is that on your mind, like maybe you might miss something and how do you handle that? >> It's a good point. If you look at all the smartest people in the industry, whatever that means, and you say what's their ability to predict what happens in five years, 10 years, 15 years, it's actually not been very good, right? And so that has been humbling, if somebody included me in that category of people that could try to do that. But we've got a lot of smart folks. I think we have, at the core of our company, this concept of having big ears, which means we want to listen and we want to learn. And our job is to take all these things that we're learning from our customers and all of our understanding of the core molecular elements of technology, and make the magic happen in the middle that go solves the problems that customers have. >> Do you see IOT and cars and this kind of consumer experience very real for Dell Technologies to play in? >> I think there's no question that the elemental cost of computing is declining and whenever you see that happening, you see, it's like a gas, right? It expands to fit the space available. And I think you'll absolutely see this explosion, proliferation, you're already seeing it. We have hundreds of IOT projects going already within our company and we know of many, many others, so it's real. >> It's in the early phase of the hype cycle. Michael, we've got to wrap but I want to ask one final question and then kind of wrap it up. Everyone wants to know, what's the future of VMware in your words, talk to the customers that are watching and the people in the ecosystem and employees and partners. What is the future of VMware in the Dell Technologies vision? >> I think VMware has got a very bright future. I've seen this in the past where people said, Oh, you know, the PC is dead so forget about Dell. Everything's going to the cloud, so forget about all these other companies. I don't think that's quite the way it all works. So what I see in VMware is an incredibly vibrant ecosystem that's getting stronger. I see VMware remaining independent and we're obviously the majority shareholder and helping to ensure the ecosystem stays very, very strong. And I see very exciting new things, like NSX. Extending the reach of virtualization technology well beyond the core original business of VMware which was a great business and continues to actually be a great business. >> Michael, thanks for spending the time, with your busy schedule, to join us on theCUBE. I appreciate it. Great to see you. Michael Dell here inside theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. You're watching theCUBE from SiliconANGLE Media. We'll be right back with more. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back.