>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of women in data science, worldwide conference widths 2022. I'm Lisa Martin coming to you from Stanford university at the Arriaga alumni center. And I'm pleased to welcome my next guest. Hannah Sperling joins me business process intelligence or BPI, academic and research alliances at SAP HANA. Welcome to the program. >>Hi, thank you so much for having me. >>So you just flew in from Germany. >>I did last week. Yeah. Long way away. I'm very excited to be here. Uh, but before we get started, I would like to say that I feel very fortunate to be able to be here and that my heart and vicious still goes out to people that might be in more difficult situations right now. I agree >>Such a it's one of my favorite things about Wiz is the community that it's grown into. There's going to be about a 100,000 people that will be involved annually in woods, but you walk into the Arriaga alumni center and you feel this energy from all the women here, from what Margo and teams started seven years ago to what it has become. I was happened to be able to meet listening to one of the panels this morning, and they were talking about something that's just so important for everyone to hear, not just women, the importance of mentors and sponsors, and being able to kind of build your own personal board of directors. Talk to me about some of the mentors that you've had in the past and some of the ones that you have at SAP now. >>Yeah. Thank you. Um, that's actually a great starting point. So maybe talk a bit about how I got involved in tech. Yeah. So SAP is a global software company, but I actually studied business and I was hired directly from university, uh, around four years ago. And that was to join SAP's analytics department. And I've always had a weird thing for databases, even when I was in my undergrad. Um, I did enjoy working with data and so working in analytics with those teams and some people mentoring me, I got into database modeling and eventually ventured even further into development was working in analytics development for a couple of years. And yeah, still am with a global software provider now, which brought me to women and data science, because now I'm also involved in research again, because yeah, some reason couldn't couldn't get enough of that. Um, maybe learn about the stuff that I didn't do in my undergrad. >>And post-grad now, um, researching at university and, um, yeah, one big part in at least European data science efforts, um, is the topic of sensitive data and data privacy considerations. And this is, um, also topic very close to my heart because you can only manage what you measure, right. But if everybody is afraid to touch certain pieces of sensitive data, I think we might not get to where we want to be as fast as we possibly could be. And so I've been really getting into a data and anonymization procedures because I think if we could random a workforce data usable, especially when it comes to increasing diversity in stem or in technology jobs, we should really be, um, letting the data speak >>And letting the data speak. I like that. One of the things they were talking about this morning was the bias in data, the challenges that presents. And I've had some interesting conversations on the cube today, about data in health care data in transportation equity. Where do you, what do you think if we think of international women's day, which is tomorrow the breaking the bias is the theme. Where do you think we are from your perspective on breaking the bias that's across all these different data sets, >>Right. So I guess as somebody working with data on a daily basis, I'm sometimes amazed at how many people still seem to think that data can be unbiased. And this has actually touched upon also in the first keynote that I very much enjoyed, uh, talking about human centered data science people that believe that you can take the human factor out of any effort related to analysis, um, are definitely on the wrong path. So I feel like the sooner that we realize that we need to take into account certain bias sees that will definitely be there because data is humanly generated. Um, the closer we're going to get to something that represents reality better and might help us to change reality for the better as well, because we don't want to stick with the status quo. And any time you look at data, it's definitely gonna be a backward looking effort. So I think the first step is to be aware of that and not to strive for complete objectivity, but understanding and coming to terms with the fact just as it was mentioned in the equity panel, that that is logically impossible, right? >>That's an important, you bring up a really important point. It's important to understand that that is not possible, but what can we work with? What is possible? What can we get to, where do you think we are on the journey of being able to get there? >>I think that initiatives like widths of playing an important role in making that better and increasing that awareness there a big trend around explainability interpretability, um, an AI that you see, not just in Europe, but worldwide, because I think the awareness around those topics is increasing. And that will then, um, also show you the blind spots that you may still have, no matter how much you think about, um, uh, the context. Um, one thing that we still need to get a lot better at though, is including everybody in these types of projects, because otherwise you're always going to have a certain selection in terms of prospectus that you're getting it >>Right. That thought diversity there's so much value in thought diversity. That's something that I think I first started talking about thought diversity at a Wood's conference a few years ago, and really understanding the impact there that that can make to every industry. >>Totally. And I love this example of, I think it was a soap dispenser. I'm one of these really early examples of how technology, if you don't watch out for these, um, human centered considerations, how technology can, can go wrong and just, um, perpetuate bias. So a soap dispenser that would only recognize the hand, whether it was a certain, uh, light skin type that w you know, be placed underneath it. So it's simple examples like that, um, that I think beautifully illustrate what we need to watch out for when we design automatic decision aids, for example, because anywhere where you don't have a human checking, what's ultimately decided upon you end up, you might end up with much more grave examples, >>Right? No, it's, it's I agree. I, Cecilia Aragon gave the talk this morning on the human centered guy. I was able to interview her a couple of weeks ago for four winds and a very inspiring woman and another herself, but she brought up a great point about it's the humans and the AI working together. You can't ditch the humans completely to your point. There are things that will go wrong. I think that's a sends a good message that it's not going to be AI taking jobs, but we have to have those two components working better. >>Yeah. And maybe to also refer to the panel discussion we heard, um, on, on equity, um, I very much liked professor Bowles point. Um, I, and how she emphasized that we're never gonna get to this perfectly objective state. And then also during that panel, um, uh, data scientists said that 80% of her work is still cleaning the data most likely because I feel sometimes there is this, um, uh, almost mysticism around the role of a data scientist that sounds really catchy and cool, but, um, there's so many different aspects of work in data science that I feel it's hard to put that all in a nutshell narrowed down to one role. Um, I think in the end, if you enjoy working with data, and maybe you can even combine that with a certain domain that you're particularly interested in, be it sustainability, or, you know, urban planning, whatever that is the perfect match >>It is. And having that passion that goes along with that also can be very impactful. So you love data. You talked about that, you said you had a strange love for databases. Where do you, where do you want to go from where you are now? How much more deeply are you going to dive into the world of data? >>That's a good question because I would, at this point, definitely not consider myself a data scientist, but I feel like, you know, taking baby steps, I'm maybe on a path to becoming one in the future. Um, and so being at university, uh, again gives me, gives me the opportunity to dive back into certain courses and I've done, you know, smaller data science projects. Um, and I was actually amazed at, and this was touched on in a panel as well earlier. Um, how outdated, so many, um, really frequently used data sets are shown the realm of research, you know, AI machine learning, research, all these models that you feed with these super outdated data sets. And that's happened to me like something I can relate to. Um, and then when you go down that path, you come back to the sort of data engineering path that I really enjoy. So I could see myself, you know, keeping on working on that, the whole data, privacy and analytics, both topics that are very close to my heart, and I think can be combined. They're not opposites. That is something I would definitely stay true to >>Data. Privacy is a really interesting topic. We're seeing so many, you know, GDPR was how many years did a few years old that is now, and we've got other countries and states within the United States, for example, there's California has CCPA, which will become CPRA next year. And it's expanding the definition of what private sensitive data is. So we're companies have to be sensitive to that, but it's a huge challenge to do so because there's so much potential that can come from the data yet, we've got that personal aspect, that sensitive aspect that has to be aware of otherwise there's huge fines. Totally. Where do you think we are with that in terms of kind of compliance? >>So, um, I think in the past years we've seen quite a few, uh, rather shocking examples, um, in the United States, for instance, where, um, yeah, personal data was used or all proxies, um, that led to, uh, detrimental outcomes, um, in Europe, thanks to the strong data regulations. I think, um, we haven't had as many problems, but here the question remains, well, where do you draw the line? And, you know, how do you design this trade-off in between increasing efficiency, um, making business applications better, for example, in the case of SAP, um, while protecting the individual, uh, privacy rights of, of people. So, um, I guess in one way, SAP has a, as an easier position because we deal with business data. So anybody who doesn't want to care about the human element maybe would like to, you know, try building models and machine generated data first. >>I mean, at least I would feel much more comfortable because as soon as you look at personally identifiable data, you really need to watch out, um, there is however ways to make that happen. And I was touching upon these anonymization techniques that I think are going to be, um, more and more important in the, in the coming years, there is a proposed on the way by the European commission. And I was actually impressed by the sophisticated newness of legislation in, in that area. And the plan is for the future to tie the rules around the use of data science, to the specific objectives of the project. And I think that's the only way to go because of the data's out there it's going to be used. Right. We've sort of learned that and true anonymization might not even be possible because of the amount of data that's out there. So I think this approach of, um, trying to limit the, the projects in terms of, you know, um, looking at what do they want to achieve, not just for an individual company, but also for us as a society, think that needs to play a much bigger role in any data-related projects where >>You said getting true anonymization isn't really feasible. Where are we though on the anonymization pathway, >>If you will. I mean, it always, it's always the cost benefit trade off, right? Because if the question is not interesting enough, so if you're not going to allocate enough resources in trying to reverse engineer out an old, the tie to an individual, for example, sticking true to this, um, anonymization example, um, nobody's going to do it right. We live in a world where there's data everywhere. So I feel like that that's not going to be our problem. Um, and that is why this approach of trying to look at the objectives of a project come in, because, you know, um, sometimes maybe we're just lucky that it's not valuable enough to figure out certain details about our personal lives so that nobody will try, because I am sure that if people, data scientists tried hard enough, um, I wonder if there's challenges they wouldn't be able to solve. >>And there has been companies that have, you know, put out data sets that were supposedly anonymized. And then, um, it wasn't actually that hard to make interferences and in the, in the panel and equity one lab, one last thought about that. Um, we heard Jessica speak about, uh, construction and you know, how she would, um, she was trying to use, um, synthetic data because it's so hard to get the real data. Um, and the challenge of getting the synthetic data to, um, sort of, uh, um, mimic the true data. And the question came up of sensors in, in the household and so on. That is obviously a huge opportunity, but for me, it's somebody who's, um, very sensitive when it comes to privacy considerations straight away. I'm like, but what, you know, if we generate all this data, then somebody uses it for the wrong reasons, which might not be better urban planning for all different communities, but simple profit maximization. Right? So this is something that's also very dear to my heart, and I'm definitely going to go down that path further. >>Well, Hannah, it's been great having you on the program. Congratulations on being a Wood's ambassador. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of great lessons and experiences that you'll take back to Germany from here. Thank you so much. We appreciate your time for Hannah Sperling. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the QS live coverage of women in data science conference, 2020 to stick around. I'll be right back with my next guest.

>>From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>Oh, great. To have you with us here on the cube, as we continue our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, doing it virtually of course, uh, out of a necessity as I'm sure all of you can appreciate we're joined now by Alex Sanchez, who is the head of cross GDC networks and Fujitsu and Fujitsu provider of global it services and solutions. And so their footprint, um, again, is, is around the world. Uh, Alex, thanks for joining us here on the cube. We appreciate your time. And, uh, I'd like to hear a little bit more about your role first off before we jump in and tell us a little bit about Fujitsu for those who might not be familiar with it. >>Thank you very much, Sean. I really appreciate it. Uh, well, uh, first, uh, let me start by providing some background on Fujitsu. We're a global it digital transformation company offering a full range of technology products, solutions, and services. Uh, we exist to keep our customer's business running and we strive to give the best possible experience across every customer touch point. My role as head of cross CDC networks, uh, makes me in charge of standardizing technology networks across our global delivery centers. And for the past couple of years, I have been working on the standardization of our contact center platform across all of our global delivery centers. >>Yeah, yeah. I mean, you mentioned global delivery centers, so let's, let's jump into that. Uh, first off, what are they, um, you know, how have you structured your business in that respect and, um, ultimately what kind of service or a solution are they providing to your customers? >>Absolutely. So our global delivery centers are interconnected, integrated global teams. Uh, we deliver a broad portfolio of standardized services, which includes cybersecurity workplace and much more. We're based out of, uh, eight different key countries. We serve customers in over 100 and uh, different countries and we provide support in over 40 different languages. Uh, we enabled, uh, those CDCs enabled us to consistently and resilient provide services to our customers, uh, 24 seven 365 days of the year. Uh, the service, uh, that we offer, uh, as, uh, for you to global delivery teams are constructed from fully standardized components. Uh, it allows us to, uh, be configured to meet our customer needs and deliver a flawless global consistency services. >>You just, you were just talking about multiple languages, right? You've got to deal with countries, uh, environments, uh, continents, uh, businesses with different needs of, of all, you know, all over the, over the map. If you might say that, um, how do you balance that? Or how do you approach that when you do have so many customers in a wide variety of venues with a wide variety of needs and yet, you know, you want to provide for them that exemplary service that they expect when they come to Fujitsu? >>Uh, well, yes, as I mentioned, uh, we strive to evolve our contact centers so that it meets that global need that global expansion. And we adapt to our customers' needs. Uh, we have our GDCs with teams that are engaged and enabled so that we can provide customers with, uh, the best customer experience we like to help our customers reimagine their employee experience. >>Yeah. You mentioned, uh, you're talking about the contact centers and I know that you're going through this major transformation right now, in terms of, of, uh, how they're operating, um, before we get into that and, and, and jump a little bit deeper into what you've already touched on, what was the problem before, or, you know, there's always a problem, right? We're always trying to solve something, make something better, put a little finer point on that in terms of, of what you were doing before, you know, where were we? >>Well, uh, if we get to this global delivery organization, uh, tries to build trust at every opportunity we aim to deepen our customer relationships by adding a value of mix, uh, of rock, solid delivery, innovation and collaboration. However, some of our previous systems, the net always offer us the functionality and flexibility that we needed to provide a diverse range of, uh, services to our customers and what they required. So that is the basis of our, uh, challenges and, uh, what we were striving to overcome. >>So you've, you've turned AWS, um, uh, again, Amazon connect, I know that, uh, that you've got widely deployed. What was it that, that attracted you to that in terms of finding the value in it, and then what kind of efficiencies and what kinds of improvement in your operations is, is connect providing you >>Well, uh, being able to, uh, think about the art of the possible adding value to our customers. Introducing next generation features, uh, our road with AWS connected started as a two month proof of concept, uh, with over 150 different agents initially supported out of one of those global delivery centers, providing support and services to, uh, one of the regions. So, uh, we started as a way to innovate and provide next generation functionality. >>Yeah. Proof of concept periods are always interesting, aren't they? Because you, you think you're going to find out some thing and, and you might, but then you sometimes find out something else, right. That, that you're like, okay, well, the, uh, there's another application here. There's another service here. There's another layer here. Um, what was it in that period of time for you then, as far as your takeaways that convinced you that, you know, this is right, this is good. We need this. And, and so we're going to jump in. Absolutely. So, >>Uh, I would say that one of those things is that we made marked improvements in our customer experience. We were able to rapidly onboard new agents and provide automated features, such as call recording sentiment analysis, integrated callback features. We were able to help our customers faster while simultaneously improving the service quality. >>Yeah. COVID, uh, has been, um, certainly wreaking havoc in, in every facet of life. Right. Um, no question personally, professionally unit, multiple industries. So how about the impact on your, in your world first off, just from, from COVID-19, uh, how you've had to assess what your client's needs are, how you, what your needs are and, and first off, how you've, how have you balanced that >>In the past year? Yes, well, uh, Fujitsu was able to move, uh, 95% of our contact survey agents to remote work environment, equipped with the tools that they needed to provide, uh, services while remaining safe and productive. Our contact center agents and operations was not able to persist, but actually thrive during the COVID 19 pandemic and provide the much needed support that our customers were expecting and, uh, provided from, from us. How fast >>Was it, you know, I guess it required, what, how quickly did you have to respond? Cause, uh, you know, I mean, this certainly has caught a lot of, or caught a lot of people by surprise back in early March and April. Um, and I assume that that Fujitsu's no different, right? All of a sudden you have, uh, a pandemic on your hands and you've got to move nimbly and quickly. So just talk about that, if you would, that, that quick transformation that you had to make and in terms of responding to the >>Absolutely. So with AWS connect, we were able to automate and simplify the complex contact center flows that we had previously, a product of this is it's ability to now make ad hoc changes in seconds while avoiding multiple vendors to actually get those implemented. One example of this is that for you to help one of our customers move from 4,500 QS to less than 400 by actually doing call tagging attributes, instead of just creating independent flows for each one of those countries. And this mainly because of the needs from the operation to be able to quickly create reports based on countries and languages. Yeah. >>And I know you were involved or, and, and, and I might still be, I'm not sure a beta testing, uh, with some of the new, um, AWS connect features that were announced recently, you know, here at, uh, during re-invent what, what is, um, what's got you going there, you know, what, what, uh, what's caught your attention and what are you excited about seeing I go into practice on a, on a wider basis? >>Well, John, I would to say that introduction of ado list tasks has greatly helped us improve our agent productivity. We were able to see improvements of around 30% and we expect refine our customer experience even further by adding additional AWS integrations. >>Now, you mentioned, mentioned further, there's always a next step, right? Isn't there Alex. I mean, there's always, it's as good as you are now. You can't afford to sit still. I mean, that's the competitive nature of your landscape. So where do you see yourself in, in terms of rollouts in the future, or if there's an area that you think this is the next, uh, challenge for us, uh, in the, in the short term, what would that be? >>Well, that AC very good question for you to provide, uh, contact center services to around 300 diverse customers with agents speaking dozens of different languages. And we are continually looking to improve those services and experience for our customers, as well as our employees. We believe that if our employees are happy and safe and they have the tools that they need to do their work, that would result in an M in a much more improved, uh, service to our customers as such, uh, for you to source invest money, invest in heavily in the of transformation. Some of those elements would include a location agnostic delivery. This would actually allow us to create virtual teams with so employees working from Fujitsu offices while some will continue working from home. This approach will offer, uh, significantly and greater flexibility for our employees, as well as an improved efficiency of our services. >>Uh, the ability to introduce self service and automation by introducing, uh, virtual assistants, uh, robotics, uh, voice recognition, speech to text conversion, sentiment analysis. It will help us reduce the time it takes for agents or staff in repetitive tasks, allowing them to focus on the more important, uh, improvement, adding value to our customers. Being able to add, uh, tasks such as technology upgrades, uh, knowledge and data management, uh, that analytics business recommendations from our customers. This would then, uh, tied into what we're doing with improved planning, uh, as situation changes. And definitely COVID has been one example of that. Uh, Fujitsu needs to respond rapidly to ensure that we continue to provide support to all of our customers, uh, wrote a planning system, provides insights recommendations to help us deal with those changes as well as offering a level of flexibility for employees to align with their personal needs. And, uh, finally, and tying this up with those innovations that we're looking into, uh, being able to take those into employee engagement. We're introducing a proof of concept with gamification on some of our contact center, uh, desks to provide employees with a rewarding environment that offers an increase, uh, find while also doing the work reinforcing behaviors and enhancing customer satisfaction while there's certainly, um, a new >>Order, a new world, right? In, in terms of how we have to operate in a business environment. And I think you hit a key word there it's flexibility, right? Ultimately giving your employees the flexibility to still do their jobs in a very productive environment and a safe environment is critical. And it seems like Fujitsu is committed to doing that. So congratulations on that and thank you for the time today. We really appreciate it. >>Thank you very much, Sean. And thank you for the opportunity.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 live I'm Lisa Martin. Really exciting topic coming up for you next, please. Welcome Blake shoulda, founder and CEO of boom supersonic Blake. It's great to have you on the program. Thank you for having me, Lisa, and your background gives me all the way with what we're going to talk about in the next few minutes or so, but supersonic flight has existed for quite a long time, like 50 or so years. I think those of us in certain generations remember the Concorde for example, but the technology to make it efficient and mainstream is only recently been approved by or accepted by regulators. Tell us a little bit about boom, your mission to make the world more accessible with supersonic commercial flight. Well, a supersonic flight has >> actually been around since 1949 when Chuck Yeager broke the speed barrier or sorry, the sound barrier. >>And as, as many of you know, he actually passed yesterday, uh, 97. So very, very sad to see one of the supersonic pioneers behind us. Uh, but, uh, but as I say goodbye to Jaeger, a new era of supersonic flight is here. And if you look at the history of progress and transportation, since the Dawn of the industrial revolution, uh, we used to make regular progress and speed. As we went from, uh, the horse to the iron horse, to the, the boats, to the, the early propeller airplanes that have the jet age. And what happened was every time we made transportation faster, instead of spending less time traveling, we actually spent more time traveling because there were more places to go, more people to meet. Uh, we haven't had a world war since the Dawn of the jet age. Uh, places like Hawaii have become, uh, a major tourist destination. >>Uh, but today, uh, today it's been 60 years since we've had a mainstream re uh, step forward and speed. So what we're doing here at boom is picking up where Concord left off building an aircraft that flies faster by factor to the, anything you can get a ticket on today. And yet is 75% more affordable than Concorde was. So we want to make Australia as accessible as a why yesterday. We want to enable you to cross the Atlantic, do business, be home in time, detect your kids into bed, or take a three-day business trip to Asia and let you do it in just 24 >> hours. I like the sound of all of that. Even getting on a plane right now in general. I think we all do so, so interesting that you, you want to make this more accessible. And I did see the news about Chuck Yeager last night. >>Um, designing though the first supersonic airliner overture, it's called in decades, as you said, this dates back 60 years, rolling it out goal is to roll it out in 2025 and flying more than 500 trans oceanic routes. Talk to me about how you're leveraging technology and AWS to help facilitate that. Right. Well, so one of the really fascinating things is the new generation of airplanes, uh, are getting born in the cloud and then they're going to go fly through actual clouds. And so there are, there are a bunch of revolutions in technology that have happened since Concord's time that are enabling what we're doing now, their breakthroughs and materials. We've gone from aluminum to carbon fiber they're breakthroughs and engines. We've gone from after burning turbo jets that are loud and inefficient to quiet, clean, efficient turbo fans. But one of the most interesting breakthroughs has been in a available to do design digitally and iteration digitally versus, uh, versus physically. >>So when conquer was designed as an example, they were only able to do about a dozen wind tunnel tests because they were so expensive. And so time consuming and on, uh, on our XP one aircraft, which is our prototype that rolled out in October. Um, uh, we did hundreds of iterations of the design in virtual wind tunnels, where we could spin up a, uh, a simulation and HPC cluster in AWS, often more than 500 cores. And then we'd have our airplanes flying through virtual wind tunnels, thousands of flights scenarios you can figure out which were the losers, which were the winners keep iterating on the winners. And you arrive at an aerodynamic design that is more efficient at high speed. We're going very safely, very quickly in a straight line, but also a very smooth controllable for safe takeoff and landing. And the part of the artist supersonic airplane design is to accomplish both of those things. One, one airplane, and, uh, being able to design in the cloud, the cloud allows us to start up to do what previously only governments and militaries could do. I mentioned we rolled out our XP one prototype in October. That's the first time anyone has rolled out a supersonic civil aircraft since the Soviet union did it in 1968. And we're able to do as a startup because of computing. >>That's incredible born in the cloud to fly in the cloud. So talk to me about a lot of, of opportunity that technology has really accelerated. And we've seen a lot of acceleration this year in particular digital transformation businesses that if they haven't pivoted are probably in some challenging waters. So talk to us about how you're going all in with AWS to facilitate all these things that you just mentioned, which has dramatic change over 12, uh, when tone test for the Concord and how many times did it, >>Uh, I mean for 27 years, but not that many flights, never, it never changed the way mainstream, uh, never, never district some of you and I fly. Right. Um, so, so how, how are we going all in? So we've, you know, we've been using AWS for, uh, you know, basically since the founding of the company. Uh, but what we, what we're doing now is taking things that we were doing outside of the cloud and cloud. Uh, as an example, uh, we have 525 terabytes of XP one design and test data that what used to be backed up offsite. Um, and, and what we're doing is migrating into the cloud. And then your data is next. Your compute, you can start to do these really interesting things as an example, uh, you can run machine learning models to calibrate your simulations to your wind tunnel results, which accelerates convergence allows you to run more iterations even faster, and ultimately come up with a more efficient airplane, which means it's going to be more affordable for all of us to go to go break the sound barrier. >>And that sounds like kind of one of the biggest differences that you just said is that it wasn't built for mainstream before. Now, it's going to be accessibility affordability as well. So how are you going to be leveraging the cloud, you know, design manufacturing, but also other areas like the beyond onboard experience, which I'm already really excited to be participating in in the next few years. >>Yeah. So there's so many, so many examples. We've talked about design a little bit already. Uh, it's going to manifest in the manufacturing process, uh, where the, the, the, the, the supply chain, uh, will be totally digital. The factory operations will be run out of the cloud. You know, so what that means concretely is, uh, you know, literally there'll be like a million parts of this airplane. And for any given unit goes through their production line, you'll instantly know where they all are. Um, you'll know which serial numbers went on, which airplanes, uh, you'll understand, uh, if there was a problem with one of it, how you fixed it. And as you continue to iterate and refine the airplane, this, this is one of things that's actually a big deal, uh, with, with digital in the cloud is, you know, exactly what design iteration went into, exactly which airplane and, uh, and that allows you to actually iterate faster and any given airline with any given airplane will actually know exactly what, what airplane they have, but the next one that rolls off the line might be even a little bit better. >>And so it allows you to keep track of all of that. It allows you to iterate faster, uh, it allows you to spot bottlenecks in your supply chain before they impact production. Um, and then it allows you to, uh, to do preventive maintenance later. So there's to be digital interpretation all over the airplane, it's going to update the cloud on, you know, uh, are the engines running expected temperature. So I'm gonna run a little bit hot, is something vibrating more than it should vibrate. And so you catch these things way before there's any kind of real maintenance issue. You flag it in the cloud. The next time the airplane lands, there's a tech waiting for the airplane with whatever the part is and able to install it. And you don't have any downtime, and you're never anywhere close to a safety issue. You're able to do a lot more preventively versus what you can do today. >>Wow. So you have to say that you're going to be able to, to have a hundred percent visibility into manufacturing design, everything is kind of an understatement, but you launched XQ on your prototype in October. So during the pandemic, as I mentioned, we've been talking for months now on the virtual cube about the acceleration of digital transformation. Andy, Jassy talked about it in his keynote at AWS reinventing, reinventing this year, virtual, what were some of the, the, the advantages that you got, being able to stay on track and imagine if you were on track to launch in October during a time that has been so chaotic, uh, everywhere else, including air travel. >>Well, some of it's very analog, uh, and some of it's very digital. So to start with the analog, uh, we took COVID really seriously at Bo. Uh, we went into that, the pandemic first hit, we shut the company down for a couple of weeks, so we'd kind of get our feet underneath of us. And then we sort of testing, uh, everyone who had to work on the airplane every 14 days, we were religious about wearing masks. And as a result, we haven't had anyone catch COVID within the office. Um, and I'm super proud that we're able to stay productive and stay safe during the pandemic. Um, and you do that, but kind of taking it seriously, doing common sense things. And then there's the digital effort. And, uh, and so, you know, part of the company runs digitally. What we're able to do is when there's kind of a higher alert level, we go a little bit more digital when there's a lower alert level. >>Uh, we have more people in the office cause we, we still really do value that in-person collaboration and which brings it back through to a bigger point. It's been predicted for a long time, that the advent of digital communication is going to cause us not to need to travel. And, uh, what we've seen, you know, since the Dawn of the telephone is that it's actually been the opposite. The more you can know, somebody even a little bit, uh, at distance, the hungry you are to go see them in person, whether it's a business contact or someone you're in love with, um, no matter what it is, there's still that appetite to be there in person. And so I think what we're seeing with the digitization of communication is ultimately going to be very, um, uh, it's very complimentary with supersonic because you can get to know somebody a little bit over a long distance. You can have some kinds of exchanges and then you're, and then the friction for be able to see them in person is going to drop. And that is, uh, that's a wonderful combination. >>I think everybody on the planet welcomes that for sure, given what we've all experienced in the last year, you can have a lot of conversations by zoom. Obviously this was one of them, but there is to your point, something about that in-person collaboration that really takes things can anyway, to the next level. I am curious. So you launched XB one in October, as I mentioned a minute ago, and I think I read from one of your press releases planning to launch in 2025, the overture with over 500 trans oceanic routes. What can we expect from boom and the next year or two, are you on track for that 2025? >>Yeah. Things are going, things are going great. Uh, so to give a sense of what the next few years hold. So we rolled out the assembled XB one aircraft this year, uh, next year that's going to fly. And so that will be the first civil supersonic, uh, flying aircraft ever built by an independent company. Uh, and along the way, we are building the foundation of overture. So that design efforts happening now as XB one is breaking the sound barrier. We'll be finalizing the overture design in 22, we'll break ground in the factory in 23, we'll start building the first airplane and 25, we'll roll it out. And 26 we'll start flight tests. And, uh, and then we'll go through the flight test methodically, uh, systematically as carefully as we can, uh, and then be ready to carry passengers as soon as we are convinced that safe, which will be right around the end of the decade, most likely. >>Okay. Exciting. And so it sounds like you talked about the safety protocols that you guys put in place in the office, which is great. It's great to hear that, but also that this, this time hasn't derailed because you have the massive capabilities of, to be able to do all of the work that's necessary, way more than was done with before with the Concorde. And that you can do that remotely with cloud is a big facilitator of that communication. >>Yeah. You're able to do the cloud enables a lot of computational efficiencies. And I think about the, um, many times projects are not measured in how many months or years exactly does it take you to get done, but it's actually much easier to think about in terms of number of iterations. And so every time we do an airplane iteration, we look at the aerodynamics high speed. We look at the low speed. We look at the engine, uh, we look at the, the weights. Uh, we look at stability and control. We look at pilots, light aside, et cetera, et cetera. And every time you do an iteration, you're kind of looking around all of those and saying, what can I make better? But each one of those, uh, lines up a little bit differently with the rest now, for example, uh, uh, to get the best airplane aerodynamically, doesn't have a good view for the pilot. >>And that's why Concord had that droop nose famously get the nose out of the way so we can see the runway. And so we're able to do digital systems for virtual vision to let the pilot kind of look through the nose of the runway. But even then they're, trade-offs like, how, how good of an actual window do you need? And so your ability to make progress in all of this is proportional to how quickly you can make it around that, that iteration loop, that design cycle loop. And that's, that's part of where the cloud helps us. And we've, we've got some, uh, uh, some stuff we've built in house that runs on the cloud that lets you basically press a button with a whole set of airplane parameters. And bam, it gives you a, it gives you an instant report. I'm like, Oh, was it that this is a good change or bad change, uh, based on running some pretty high fidelity simulations with a very high degree of automation. And you can actually do many of those in parallel. And so it's about, you know, at this stage of the program, it's about accelerating, accelerating your design iterations, uh, giving everyone of the team visibility into those. And then, uh, I think you get together in person as it makes sense to now we're actually hitting a major design milestone with over-treat this week and we're, COVID testing everybody and get them all in the same room. Cause sometimes that in-person collaboration, uh, is really significant, even though you can still do so much digitally. >>I totally agree. There's there's certain things that you just can't replicate. Last question since my brother is a pilot for Southwest and retired Lieutenant Colonel from the air force, any special training that pilots will have to have, or are there certain pilots that are going to be maybe lower hanging fruit, if they have military experience versus commercial flight? Just curious. >>Yeah. So our XB one aircraft is being flown by test pilots. There's one ex Navy one ex air force on our crew, but, uh, overture, uh, will be accessible to any commercial pilot. So, uh, think about it as if you're, if you're used to flying Boeing, it'd be like switching to Airbus, uh, or vice versa. So the, uh, Concord is a complicated aircraft to fly because they didn't have computers. And all the complexity, the soup of supersonic flight was right there and the pilots and an overture, all that gets extracted by software. And, uh, you know, the, the, the ways the flight controls change over speed regimes. You don't have to worry about it, but the airplane is handled beautifully, no matter what you're doing. And so, uh, and so there are many, many places to innovate, but actually pilot experience, not one of them, >>Because the more conventional you can make it for people like your brother, the easier it's going to be for them to learn the aircraft. And therefore the safer it's going to be to fly. I'll let them know, like this has been fantastic, really exciting to see what boom supersonic is doing and the opportunities to make supersonic travel accessible. And I think at a time when everybody wants the world to open up, so by 20, 26, I'm going to be looking for my ticket. Awesome. Can't wait to have you on board. Likewise for Blake shul, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the QS live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020.

>>Fly from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cube covering Cisco live 2020s brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >>Hi everyone. Welcome back to the QS live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco live 2020 I'm John. My coasts do many minutes. We are in the dev net. Similar all the action is the accused third year covering where dev net has been evolving into the centerpiece of Cisco strategy. And all the sessions are here. We've got a great guest. Make D as product marketing for Cisco with umbrella is a takeover going on here. The Devin, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So tell us about umbrella, cause that's a new brand open DNS kind of confer. What's the story with umbrella? Give us the update. >>Sure. So umbrella was first really developed an introduced in the market in 2012 under the open DNS company. We were acquired by Cisco in 2015 and rebranded it to Cisco umbrella. So we've taken the same great product that we've had for years and just continued to develop and add to it. >>And what's the main features now as that same product? Has it been integrated in, cause everything's becoming API base here. We're seeing that. What's the tweak? Is it security? What's the main linkage with the Cisco? >>Yeah, so um, umbrella really started off, uh, providing DNS layer security. So it was often an added layer or foundational layer that customers would use to reduce the amount of malware, make sure that their users were protected anywhere that they were connecting to the internet. And so we've taken that. It's, it's always been developed as an open platform and we've continued to add additional API APIs to it and a lot of additional security features too. So beyond just DNS, we now have a full secure web gateway cloud delivered firewall, uh, Cosby capabilities. So there's been a lot of new capabilities that we've built into the product. >>Can you bring us inside a little bit? We've been in the dev net zone for three years, as John said, got to dev net, create that API economy is something that is so important and that's what so many people, I mean we've seen just huge crowds all week. Help us understand how those APIs fit into Cisco and Cisco umbrella. >>Sure. So when you look at, there's a number of API APIs that we've built into umbrella. So to give you some examples, we have a, uh, a device network device API to make it easy to actually integrate different network devices that you have to umbrella. So how do you get that traffic very easily from any device to our cloud platform? So that's one example. Uh, we've rebuilt a lot of integrations but that allows you to, to help build any additional integrations that you want. Um, we have a reporting API that helps you to, you know, automate some of the, the reporting, send it and integrate it with systems that you have. Um, and then another example, even with, uh, all of the intelligence behind umbrella, we make it available through our investigate API. So we see a lot of organizations use that to enrich their Sam or threat intelligence platform. >>So being able to take all of the data that you have within umbrella and make sure that it can be integrated in the right ways. >> Any new features you guys announcing an umbrella that we should know about here this week? >> Yes. One of the big ones that we've I've been talking about at our booth and in some of the sessions is with any connect, so any connect has always been really big for a lot of Cisco customers to protect roaming users and we've had the ability to, I enable a DNS module as part of that, so that enables them to, even when users are off the VPN, their VPN isn't even turned on. They're still getting protection from umbrella and we've taken that and we've also enabled them to leverage our security gateway functionality when users are roaming as well. So that's for the use cases. >>They're on a VPN, they're doing their thing, they go to a coffee shop or go somewhere else or they're, they're moving around. Exactly. And they might not be actually connected to the VPN, so their traffic isn't actually being protected, so they might be connecting directly to the internet. That's where when they have umbrella enabled there, they can still get the right protection for those users. May talk about the dynamics going on with, with injecting hacks in DNS, because this has always been kind of a, you're always been people but always been chasing this because you are rails, they run the internet, we know some URLs could look like PayPal or this or the other bank. And so it becomes kind of a, your URL, DNS management challenge. This is something that's been fundamental for security. What's, what are some of the things that are going on that people should pay attention to? >>Sure. So I think that there's, there's a few different aspects of that that we're really delivering on today. So first of all, when it comes to just, uh, people, uh, trying to get you to click on a link that looks like PayPal, but it's actually not. Um, so there's a number of different methods that we're using in the product to detect that. So one of the things is, is we'll look at, uh, the way that the domain is actually written. A lot of times you can see some, uh, we, we look at, you know, the, the structure of the wording. And sometimes you can see little, uh, little characters or letters or numbers that are off and we can detect that that's happening. But then we also look at the infrastructure beyond behind the domain. So we look at where is that IP, uh, where is that domain actually hosted? Right? So what's the IP address? What other activity do we see happening on that IP address? Cause you can really learn a lot, right? We saw a, a, a, a PayPal, uh, domain that was supposedly a UK PayPal domain, but it was actually hosted on a Bulletproof hosting site, which no legitimate PayPal account would be or domain would be hosted on. So things like that that we're able to detect. >>Yeah. So make us this way. I saw something talked about online puny code. Is this, what we're talking about here is that there's a different topic, >>a little bit different cause that, but yeah, there, there's also, yeah, they could be embedded within puny code, things like that. But this is just some of our fundamental, what we look at when we're determining if a domain is malicious or not. >>Okay. Could you walk us through a little bit, the demos going on? We've got the takeover going on right now. What, what's the umbrella presence here in the dev net zone and throughout Cisco live? >>Yeah, so there's, there's a lot of different areas that we are. So we have a latch of Verna. Uh, the cafe. Uh, we have all of our demo stations. We have theater presentations pretty much running every 15 minutes. So you can learn more on a number of different topics. Uh, we have the dev net takeover, we have a number of breakout sessions that are happening. Um, so there's a lot of activity happening around Cisco live. >>Well the, Cisco's got a huge technical crowd here. Obviously they're their network geeks. They all know DNS. What are some of the conversations you guys are having? What are some of the cool things that are cause that's not know about programming and they getting into different formats? How is the DNS fitting into that? I've saw some cool demos. What are some of the cool tech conversations? >>Yeah, I think, I think a lot of times it's still, um, we're seeing more of a, a an uptake in people understanding that DNS can be used to actually deliver security as well. So I think, you know, those are some of the, the conversations still educating people about how they can add additional layers of security to their environment and DNS being really one of them. Um, I think what we're also seeing is just because with umbrella we're going beyond just DNS and really taking multiple security services, bringing them into a single cloud platform. And that's a lot of the conversation that we're having and that's where you're seeing the market going. So organizations starting to look at how does that fit into their environment, how can they start to architect their network differently for the future and, and how to wrap security in there. So a lot of the conversations we're having are around that. >>It's interesting the whole dynamic internet conversation kids interesting. Because DNS is, you got to resolve, you got named servers, get your resolution to the, to the destination URL and you load the page or app. As you start getting into more of the dynamic situations, the software is programming it. So it's interesting to see how DNS is evolves. You guys are leading the forefront on that. What's your view on that? What do you, how do you guys see that evolving as you got ACI intent based networking app dynamics over the top kind of programming down as DNS fit into all that? How does that, how does that all work? >>Definitely I think, I think DNS continues to be a, you know, a foundational part of how the internet works. And I, I don't see that really changing. I think, you know, some of the things that we've been, or even the different ways that you see attackers leveraging DNS, uh, you're seeing DNS tunneling for example, being one of the kind of, uh, I wouldn't say newer, but it's one of the types of techniques that nation States are using at times when they're actually embedding, you know, data to, into DNS to exfiltrate it. So, you know, things like that we're seeing, uh, come into place of trying to use DNS in, in different ways from the attack side. Yeah. But I think, you know, when you look at the overall, you know, network and, and all of that, it is a really important and kind of core part of this, >>it's interesting is that the international thing too is you submitted your hosting. A lot of these hosting sites are outside of North America, outside of Europe. They're in these countries where it's suspect, you know, and some of the foreign characters sets get interesting cause that's not ASCII, it's Unicode or you've got all kinds of things going on. So it's a complex not that easy is it? >>No, we have a lot of very, very smart people, doctors working on the, uh, the backend on the, on the engineering side to really look at that. And you know, one of the things that we tried to do, even from the beginning was take a different approach to security where we're not just looking strictly at the file hash or just the basic information, but seeing how can you take data science principles and apply them to use security in new ways to uncover attacks even before they launch. >>I gotta say one of the sessions I was walking around the hall, the couple of the main kind of clusters of people was obviously the big panoramic WebEx room was pretty popular. It looks pretty cool, but the IOT security section was packed. As you hit more devices out there, they're just internet addresses too. And there you've got destination, you got URLs over DNS there too. So you have now that edge piece that's a big security perimeter. I mean, and security surface area, I should say. That's popular. People are interested in this. >>Yes. And that's, I mean, and that's one of the big use cases that we've even seen with umbrella is you have hospitals who have all of these IOT devices and you know that are in their patients and, and it's really scary to think about where they could be connecting on the internet. And that's one of the things that we've seen with umbrella is because we're providing some of that security at the DNS layer, you don't need to have an agent or something on those devices when they're on the network. It's protected by umbrella. So that is one of the use cases that we see. >>I got to ask you, because you came from the acquisition open DNS, I know David, the founder of donut when he started. Great company, great success, congratulations to the whole team there. As you guys come into Cisco, what's it like, because startups are, you know, you're hungry, you grow in and then you get in here, it's almost an a waste of tech. He got new divisions. What's it been like at Cisco with the open DNS now? Umbrella brand, same product with some tweaks. What's it like? >>No, I mean it's been amazing. >>I mean I'm still here, uh, you know, almost five years later. Um, and I think one of the things that's been really exciting is, is the fact that we have been able to leverage a lot of the Cisco technology, right? We've embedded, you know, amp technology, threat grid technology, things that, that ultimately, because we're, you know, sharing those resources and, and embedding them, it's going to make the products more secure. It's going to allow us to share more information between products. And I think just the, you know, the investment, I think Cisco sees where the future is going and you know, how important the cloud is, you know, not only from just a, the way that businesses work, but from the security perspective. So there's been a lot of investment in it. Awesome. Well thanks for coming on sharing your insight. I got to ask you kind of an industry question because you've been on, again the startup now Cisco, most normal people like DNS, I know what a URL is, but they know security. So when they asked you a lot, they hae all this fake news, all this malware, spear fishing. I mean the average consumer, they get the security thing. When they asked you what's going on, what, what do you say to them? How do you explain what you do and your vision of how you see the world evolving? >>Sure. I think, I think for a lot of people, I mean I've, I've been in security now for for a while when I started it was really, it was still all the compliance conversation and you were still educating a lot of people on security. But now my grandma knows about it and you know, she'll ask me questions. So I think, you know, it has become so much more mainstream and you know when I, in in simplest terms, I just talked to people about the fact that we are making sure that wherever users are connecting to the internet, they're doing it securely. You know, no matter what application they're trying to access, we can help secure that. And so that's kind of the, >>and be careful what you click on. It would be, you know, the emails you get. Well you don't know what's in there exactly. Well thanks for come on. Great. Great to have you on. Thanks for the insight. Cisco umbrella. It's taking over dev net dev net zone is packed. It just gets bigger every year and this is where people are learning is very community driven. A lot of, a lot of education, a lot of great content. You're starting out or you're more experienced software certifications all here inside the cube coverage of Barcelona. We'll be right back after this short break.

(upbeat digital music) >> Announcer: Live, from the Javits Center in New York City, it's theCube, covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome to day two of theCube's live coverage of Inforum 2017 here in New York City at the Javits Center. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-hosts, Dave Vellante, and Jim Kobielus, who is the lead analyst at Wikibon for AI. So we're here in day two, fellas. We just heard the keynote. Any thoughts on what your expectations are for today, Jim, and what you're hoping to uncover, or at least get more insight on what we learned already in day one? >> I'd like to have Infor unpack a bit more of the Coleman announcement. I wrote a blog last night that I urge our listeners to check out on wikibon.com. There's a number of unanswered issues in terms of their strategy going forward to incorporate Coleman AI and their technology. You know, I suspect that Infor, like most companies, is working out that strategy as they go along, piece by piece, they've got a good framework then. We have Duncan Angove on right after this segment. Dave and I and you, we'll grill Duncan on that and much more, but that in particular. You know, I mean, AI is great. AI is everybody's secret sauce, now. There's a lot of substance behind what they're doing at Infor that sets them apart from their competitors in the ERP space. I want to go deeper there. >> So, yeah, so I'm looking at the blog right now. But what are the particular questions that you have regarding Coleman, in terms of how it's going to work? >> Yeah, well, first of all, I want to know, do they intend to incorporate Coleman AI in their premises-based software offerings? You know, for, I'm sure the vast majority of their customers want to know when, if ever, they're going to get access to Coleman, number one. Number two is, when are they going to complete the process of incorporating Coleman in their CloudSuite portfolio, which is vast and detailed? And then, really number three, are they going to do all the R&D themselves? I mean, they've got AWS as a major partner. AWS has significant intellectual property in AI. Will they call on others to work with them on co-developing these capabilities? You know, those are, like, the high-level things that I want to get out of today. >> Rebecca: Okay, okay. >> Well, so a couple things. So, I mean, the keynote today was okay. It wasn't, like, mind-blowing. We had customer appreciation, which was great. Alexis, who is from Foot Locker, cube alum was up there, and B of A got customer of the year. I met those guys last night at one of the customer appreciation dinners, so that was kind of cool. They all got plaques, or you know, that's nice, little trophies. I heard a lot about design thinking, and they shared some screen shots, essentially, of this new UI, started talking about AI is the new UI. It was very reminiscent of the conversation that we had in May at the ServiceNow Knowledge conference, where they're bringing consumer-like experience to the enterprise. It's always been something that ServiceNow has focused on, and certainly, Charles Phillips and Hook and Loop have been focused on that. The difference is, quite frankly, that ServiceNow showed an actual demo, got a lot of claps as a result. Infor said this is ready to be tested and downloaded, but they didn't show any demo. So that was sort of like, hmm. >> Jim: They haven't shown any demos. >> Rebecca: Yeah. >> Is it really baked out? Steve Lucas was up there. He killed it, very high energy guy. You know, again, another cube alum. He's been in our studio, and he's an awesome dude. >> Jim: He's awesome. >> And I thought he did a really good job. >> From Marketo. >> Talking about, you know, the whole engagement economy, you know, we think it's going a little bit beyond engagement to more action, and systems of an action, I think, is a term you guys use. >> Systems of agency or enablement, yeah. Bringing more of the IoT into it and robotics and so forth, yeah. >> And then DSW was up there. I said yesterday, "I love DSW." I tweeted out that, you know, the CIO had a picture, Ashlee had a picture of DSW, and I said, "Okay, when the girls and I go to DSW, "I break left, they go middle-right, "we meet at the checkout to negotiate "what actually goes home," so that was good. It was kind of fun. And then a lot of talk about digital transformation. Marc Scibelli was talking about that, and IoT and AI and data. So that's sort of, you know, kind of a summary there. As you know, Rebecca, I've been kind of trying to make the math work on the $2-plus billion investment from Koch. >> Rebecca: Yes, this is your-- >> And the messaging that Infor is putting forth is this is a source of new capital for us, but I'm-- >> Rebecca: You're skeptical. >> You know, as a private company, they have the right not to divulge everything, and they're not on a 90-day shot clock. Charles Phillips, I think, said yesterday, "We're on a 10-year shot clock." I said, "Okay." I think what happened is, so I found, I scanned 10-Qs, and I've been doing so for the last couple of days. There is virtually no information about how much, exactly, of the cash went in and what they're doing with it. And so, I suspect, but there are references to Golden Gate Capital and some of the management team taking some money off the table. Cool, that's good. I'm just, it's unclear to me that there's any debt being retired. I think there is none. And it's unclear to me how much cash there is for the business, so the only reference I was able to find, believe it or not, was on Wikipedia, and it says, "Citation still needed," okay? And the number here, and the math works, is $2.68 billion for 66.6% of the company, and a valuation of $10 billion, which Charles Phillips told us off-camera yesterday, it was $10.5 billion. So you can actually make the math work if you take that $10 billion and subtract off the $6 billion in debt. Then the numbers work, and they get five out of 11 board seats, so they've got about 45% or 49%, I think, is the actual number, you know, voting control of the company. So here's the question. What's next? And now, a couple billion for Koch is nothing. It's like the money in my pocket, I mean, it's really-- >> Rebecca: Right, right, right, the empty, yeah, exactly. >> And I suspect what happened is, 'cause it always says "$2 billion plus." So in squinting through this, my guess is, this is a pure guess, we'll try to confirm this, is that what happened is, Koch provided the additional funding to buy Birst recently. That upped their share to 66%, and maybe that's how Koch is going to operate going forward. When they see opportunities to help invest, they're going to do that. Now, one might say, "Well, that's going to further dilute "the existing Infor shareholders," but who cares, as long as the valuation goes up? And that's the new model of private equity. The old model of private equity is suck as much cash out of the company as possible and leave the carcass for somebody else to deal with. The new model of private equity is to invest selectively, use, essentially, what is a zero-interest loan, that $6 billion debt is like free money for Infor, pay down that debt over time with the cashflow of the company, and then raise the valuation of the company, and then at some point, have some kind of public market exit, and everybody's happy and makes a ton of dough. So, I think that's the new private equity play, and I think it's quite brilliant, actually, but there's not a lot of information. So a lot of this, have to be careful, is speculation on my part. >> Right, right. >> Well, the thing is, will the Coleman plan, initiative raise the valuation of the company in the long term if it's, you know, an attrition war in ERP, and they've got SAP, Oracle, Microsoft, all of whom have deep pockets, deeper than Infor, investing heavily in this stuff? Will Coleman be a net-net, just table stays? >> Well, so I think again, there's a couple ways in the tech business, as you guys know, to make money, and one is to invest in R&D and translate that R&D into commercial products. Some companies are really good at that, some companies aren't so good at that. The other way to make money is to do acquisitions and tuck-ins, and many, many companies have built value doing that, certainly Oracle, certainly IBM has, EMC back in the day, with its VMware acquisition, hit probably the biggest home run ever, and Infor has done a very good job of M&A, and I think, clearly, has raised the value of the company. And the other way is to resell technologies and generate cash and keep your costs low. I think a software company like Infor has the opportunity to innovate, to do tuck-in acquisitions, and to drive software marginal economics, so I think, on paper, that's all good, if, to answer your question, they can differentiate. And their differentiation is the way in which they're embedding AI into their deep, vertical, last-mile approach, and that is unique in the software business. Now, the other big question you have is beautiful UIs, and it sounds really great and looks really great, well, when you talk to the customers, they say, "Yeah, it's a little tough to implement sometimes," so it's still ERP, and ERP is complicated, alright? So, you know, it's not like Infor is shielded from some of the complexities of Oracle and SAP. It might look prettier, they might be moving a little faster in certain areas, they might, they clearly have some differentiation. At the end of the day, it's still complicated enterprise software. >> Right, exactly, and we heard that over and over again from the people, from Infor themselves, and also from customers, is that it isn't seamless. It's complicated, it involves a lot of change management initiatives, people have to be on board, and that's not always easy. >> Well, and that's why I'm encouraged, that to see some of the larger SIs, you know, you see Grant Thornton, Capgemini, I think Accenture's here, Deloitte-- >> Rebecca: We're having Capgemini later on the program. >> Deloitte's coming on as well. And so, those guys, even though I always joke they love to eat at the trough and do big, complex things, but, this is maybe not as lucrative as some of the other businesses, but it's clearly a company with momentum, and some tailwind that, in the context of digital transformations and AI, the big SIs and some of the smaller SIs, you know, like Avaap, that we had on yesterday, can do pretty well and actually help companies and customers add value. >> And with a fellow like Charles Phillips at the helm, I mean, he is just an impressive person who, as you have pointed out multiple times, is a real visionary when it comes to this stuff. >> Yeah, except when he's shooting hoops. He's not impressive on the hoop court, no. >> No? Oh! (laughing) >> I tweeted out last night, "He's got Obama's physique, "but not his hoop game." >> Oh! (laughing) >> So don't hate me for saying that, Charles. But yes, I think he's, first of all, he's a software industry guru. I think he, you know, single-handedly changed, I shouldn't say that, single-handedly, but he catalyzed the major change in the software business when Oracle went on its acquisition spree, and he architected that whole thing. It was interesting to hear his comments yesterday about what he sees. He said, "You'll see a lot more tech industry "CEOs running non-tech-industry companies "because they're all becoming SAS companies." >> If they have been so invested in understanding the vertical, they really get it. You can see someone who worked on a retail vertical here going in and being the CEO of Target or Walmart or something. >> Yes, I thought that was a pretty interesting comment from somebody who's got some chops in that business, and again, very impressive, I mean, the acquisitions that this company has done and continues to do. You and I both like the Birst acquisition. It's modern-day BI, it's not sort of just viz, and I don't mean to deposition Clik and Tableau, they've done a great job, you know, but it's not, it doesn't solve all your enterprise-grade, BI sort of problems. And, you know, you talk to the Cognos customer base, as great of an acquisition as that was for IBM, that is a big, chewy, heavy lift that IBM is trying to inject Watson and Watson Analytics. I mean, you know, you used to work at IBM, Jim. And they're doing a pretty good job of that, improving the UI, but it's still big, chunky, Cognos BI. Build cubes, wait for results. >> Yeah. So in many ways, the Birst acquisition for Infor and their portfolio is a bit like the thematics that IBM's been putting out on HTAP, you know, injecting analytics into transactional processing to make them more agile, and so forth. What I like about the Birst acquisition, vis-a-vis Coleman and where Infor is going, is that the Birst acquisition gives them a really good team, the people who really know analytics and how to drive it into transactional environments such as this. They've got, I mean, ostensibly, a deep fund of capital to fund the Coleman development going forward. Plus, they've got a really strong plan. I think there's potential strong differentiators for Infor, far more comprehensive in their plan to incorporate AI across their portfolio than SAP or Oracle or Microsoft have put out there in public, so I think they're in a good position for growth and innovation. >> Well, we have a lot of great guests coming up today. As you said, Duncan Angove is going to be on, up next. So, I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante and Jim Kobielus, we will have more from Inforum just after this. (digital music) (pensive electronic music)