(gentle instrumental music) >> Okay, we're back with Tom Christensen who's the global technology advisor and executive analyst at Hitachi Vantara. And we're exploring how Hitachi Vantara drives customer success, specifically with partners. You know Tom, it's funny, back in the early part of the last decade, there was this big push around, remember it was called green IT, and then the 07-08 financial crisis sort of put that on the back burner. But sustainability is back, and it seems to be emerging as a mega trend in IT. Are you seeing this? Is it same wine new label? How real is this trend and where's the pressure coming from? >> Well, we clearly see that sustainability is a mega trend in the IT sector. And when we talk to CIOs or senior IT leaders or simply just invite them in for a round table on this topic, they all tell us that they get the pressure from three different angles. The first one is really end consumers, and end consumers nowadays are beginning to ask questions about the green profile and what are the company doing for the environment. And this one here is both private and public companies as well. The second pressure that we see, is coming from the government. The government thinks that companies are not moving fast enough, so they want to put laws in that are forcing companies to move faster. And we see that in Germany as an example, where they are giving a law into enterprise companies to follow the human rights and sustainability, three levels back in the supply chain. But we also see that in EU they are talking about a new law that they want to put into action, and that one will replicate to 27 countries in Europe. But this one is not only Europe, it's the rest of the world where governments are talking about forcing companies to move faster than we have done in the past. So we see two types of pressure coming in, and at the same time, this one here starts off at the CEO at a company, because they want to have the competitive edge and be able to be relevant in the market. And for that reason they're beginning to put KPIs on themselves as the CEO, but they also are hiring sustainability officers with sustainability KPIs. And when that happens, it replicates down in the organization and we can now see that some CIOs, they have a KPI, others are indirectly measured. So we see direct and indirect. The same with CFOs and other C levels, they all get measured on it, and for that reason it replicates down to IT people. And that's what they tell us on these round tables. I get that pressure every day, every week, every quarter. But where is the pressure coming from? Well, the pressure is coming from end consumers and new laws that are put into action, that force companies to think differently and have focus on their green profile and doing something good for the environment. So those are the three pressures that we see. But when we talk to CFOs as an example, we are beginning to see that they have a new score system where they put out request for proposal, and this one is in about 58% of all request for proposal that we receive, that they are asking for our sustainability take, what are you doing as a vendor? And in their store system, cost has the highest priority and number two is sustainability. It weighs about 15, 20 to 25% when they look at your proposal that you submit to a CFO. But in some cases the CFO say, "I don't even know where the pressure is coming from. I'm asked to do it." But they're asked to do it because end consumers, laws, and so on, are forcing them to do it. But I would answer, yeah sustainability has become a maker trend this year and it's even growing faster and faster every month we move forward. >> Yeah, Tom, it feels like it's here to stay this time. And your point about public policy is right on, and we saw the EU leading with privacy and GDPR, and it looks like it's going to lead again here. Just shifting gears, I've been to a number of Hitachi facilities in my day. Odawara is my favorite, because on a clear day you can see Mount Fuji but other plants I've been to as well. What does Hitachi do in the production facility to reduce CO2 emissions? >> Yeah, I think you're hitting a good point here. So what we have, we have a facility in Japan and we have one in Europe and we have one in America as well, to keep our production close to our customers and reduce transportation for the factory out to our customers. But you know, in the EMEA region, back in 2013, we created a new factory. And when we did that, we were asked to do it in an energy neutral way, which means that we are moving from being powered by black energy to green energy in that factory. And we built a factory with concrete walls that were extremely thick to make it cold in the summertime and hot in the wintertime, with minimum energy consumption. But we also put 17,000 square meters of solar panels on the roof to power that factory. We were collecting rain water to flush it in the toilet. We were removing light bulbs with LED. And when we send out our equipment to our customers, we put it in a rack, instead of sending out 25 packages to a customer. We want to reduce the waste as much as possible. And you know, this one was pretty new back in 2013. It was actually the biggest project in EMEA at that time. I will say if you want to build a factory today that's the way you are going to do it. But it has a huge impact for us when electricity is going up in price and oil and gas prices are coming up. We are running with energy neutral in our facility, which is a big benefit for us going forward. But it is also a competitive advantage to be able to explain what we have been doing the last eight, nine years in that factory. We are actually walking the talk, and we make that decision, even though it was a really hard decision to do back in 2013. When you do decisions like this one here, the return of investment is not coming the first couple of years. It's something that comes far out in the future, but right now we are beginning to see the benefit of the decision we made back in 2013. >> I want to come back to the economics, but before I do, I want to pick up on something you just said, because you hear the slogan, "Sustainability by design." A lot of people might think, "Okay, that's just a marketing slogan to vector into this mega trend," but it sounds like it's something that you've been working on for quite some time based on your last comments. Can you add some color to that? >> Yeah, so, the factory is just one example of what you need to do to reduce the CO2 emission in that part of the life of a product. The other one is really innovating new technology to drive down the CO2 emission. And here we are laser focused on what we call decarbonization by design. And this one is something that we have done the last eight years, so this is far from new for us. So between each generation of products that we have put out over the last eight years, we've been able to reduce the CO2 emission by up to 30 to 60% between each generation of products that we have put into the market. So we are laser focused on driving that one down but we are far from done, we still got eight years before we hit our first target net zero in 2030. So we got a roadmap where we want to achieve even more with new technology. At its core it's a technology innovator and our answer is to reduce the CO2 emission, and the decarbonization of the data center is going to be through innovating new technology because it has the speed, the scale, and the impact to make it possible to reach your sustainability objectives going forward. >> How about recycling? Where does that fit? I mean, the other day it was... A lot of times at a hotel you used to get bottled water now you get plant-based waters in a box and so we are seeing it all around us. But for a manufacturer of your size, recycling and circular economy, how does that fit into your plans? >> Yeah, let me try to explain what we are doing here because one thing is how you produce it. Another thing is how you innovate all that new technology, but you also need to combine that with service and software, otherwise you won't get the full benefit. So what we are doing here when it comes to exploring circular economics, it's kind of where we have an eternity mindset. We want to see if it is possible to get nothing out to the landfill. This is the aim that we are looking at. So when you buy a product today you get an option to keep it in your data center for up to 10 years. But what we want to do when you keep it for 10 years, is to upgrade only parts of the system. So let's say that you need more CPU power, you just switch the controller to next generation controller and you get more CPU power in your storage system, to keep it those 10 years. But you can also expand with new disk media, flash media, even media that doesn't exist today will be supported over those 10 years. You can change your protocol in the front end of your system to have new protocols and connect to your server environment with the latest and greatest technology. See, the benefit here is that, you don't have to put your system into a truck and a recycle process after three years, four years, five years, you can actually postpone that one for 10 years. And this one is reducing the emission again. But once we take it back, you put it on the truck and we take it into our recycling facility. And here we take our own equipment, like computer network and switches, but we also take competitive equipment in and we recycle as much as we can. In many cases, it's only 1% that goes to the landfill or 2% that goes to the landfill. The remaining material will go into new products either in our cycle or in other parts of the electronic industry. So it will be reused for other products. So when we look at what we've been doing for many years that has been linear economics, where you buy material, you make your product, you put it into production, and it goes into the landfill afterwards. The recycling economics is really, you buy material, you make your product, you put it into production, and you recycle as much as possible. The remaining part will go into the landfill. But where we are right now is exploring circular economics, where you actually buy material, make it, put it into production, and you reuse as much as you can. And only 1-2% is going into the landfill right now. So we have come along, and we honestly believe that the circular economics is the new economics going forward for many industries in the world. >> Yeah, and that addresses some of the things that we were talking about earlier about sustainability by design. You have to design that so that you can take advantage of that circular economy. I do want to come back to the economics, because in the early days of so-called green IT, there was a lot of talk about, "Well I'll never be able to lower the power bill, and the facilities people don't talk to the IT people," and that's changed. So explain why sustainability is good business, not just an expense item, but can really drive bottom line profitability. I understand it's going to take some time, but help us understand your experience there Tom. >> Yeah, let me try to explain that one. You often get the question about sustainability. Isn't that a cost? I mean how much does it cost to get that green profile? But you know, in reality, when you do a deep dive into the data center, you realize that sustainability is a cost saving activity. And this one is quite interesting, and we have now done more than 1,200 data center assessment around the world, where we have looked at data centers. And let me give you just an average number from a global bank that we work with. And this one is not different from all the other cases that we are doing. So when we look at the storage area, what we can do on the electricity by moving an old legacy data center into a new modernized infrastructure, is to reduce the electricity by 96%. This is a very high number, and a lot of money that you save, but the CO2 emission is reduced by 96% as well. The floor space can go up to 35% reduction as well. When we move down to the compute part, we are talking about 61% reduction in electricity on the compute part, just by moving from legacy to new modern infrastructure, and 61% on the CO2 emission as well. And see this one here is quite interesting, because you save electricity and you do something really good for the environment at the same time. In this case I'm talking about here, the customer was paying 2.5 million U.S. dollar annually, and by just modernizing that infrastructure, we could bring it down to 1.1 million. This is 1.4 million savings straight into your pocket and you can start the next activity here, looking at moving from virtual machine to containers. Containers only use 10% of the CPU resources compared to a virtual machine. Move up to the application layer if you have that kind of capability in your organization. Modernizing your application with sustainability by design and you can reduce the CO2 emission by up to 50%. There's so much we can do in that data center, but we often start at the infrastructure first and then we move up in the chain and we give customers benefit in all these different layers. >> Yeah, a big theme of this program today is what you guys are doing with partners. Are partners aware of this in your view? Are they in tune with it? Are they demanding it? What message would you like to give the channel partners, resellers, and distributors who may be watching? >> So the way to look at it is that we offer a platform with product, service and software, and that platform can elevate the conversation much higher up in the organization, and partners get the opportunity here to go up and talk to sustainability officers about what we are doing. They can even take it up to the CEO, and talk about how can you reach your sustainability KPI in the data center. What we've see in this round table when we have sustainability officers in the room, is that they are very focused on the green profile, and what is going out of the company. They rarely have a deep understanding of what is going on in the data center. Why? Because it's really technical and they don't have that background. So just by elevating the conversation to these sustainability officers, you can tell them what they should measure and how they should measure that. And you can be sure that that will replicate down to the CIO and the CFO, and there will immediately be a request for proposal going forward. So this one here is really a golden opportunity to take that story, go out and talk to different people in the organization, to be relevant, and have an impact, and make it more easy for you to win that proposal when it gets out. >> Well, really solid story on a super important topic. Thanks Tom, really appreciate your time and taking us through your perspectives. >> Thank you Dave, for the invitation. >> Yeah, you bet. Okay, in a moment we'll be back to summarize our final thoughts, keep it right there. (gentle instrumental music)

>> (Announcer) From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas. It's theCube covering UiPath FORWARD IV, brought to you by UiPath. >> Good afternoon. Welcome back to theCube's live coverage of UiPath FORWARD IV. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. We're on day two of our coverage. We've been talking a lot about automation, all of the opportunities that it's uncovering across industries. We're now going to be talking about a big company undergoing its own automation-led digital transformation. Joining us next, Mariesa Coughanour, head of Automation Advisory Services at Cognizant. Mariesa, welcome to the program. >> Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here today. >> So let's talk. So Cognizant is a part, both a partner and a customer of UiPath. >> Yes. >> We're going to talk about you in the customer realm today. Cognizant is undergoing its own automation-led digital transformation. Let's talk about that. Talk to me about some of the business outcomes that are, that you're expecting, how it's going to transform the employee experience, the customer experience. >> (Mariesa) Sure, absolutely. We actually started working with automation ourselves back in 2018, where we just put in a CoE, we said we want to drive it into our business operations. But about a year ago, we said, let's go further. I really wanted to play with all of our employees. We wanted to empower them. We talk about citizen development, of robot for every person. And we know that that's really the future. That's where we're going. We're digitally transforming our organizations. And so what we did is we sat down and we worked really closely with UiPath on how do we do this? What kind of training do we need? We're going to need some process, some governance in there. And so we put that in place and, you know, we said, let's get this going this year. So we went out, we did, our first Hackathon, went really well. It was Bring Your Own Bots. So BYOB, so, fun themes. And we got some good savings. We actually drove over 10,000, close to 20,000 hours back into the organization. And we said after that, let's go a bit bigger though. And we did what's called Game of Bots. So obviously we know where that came from, right? And we said, we're going to go a little bit longer and we want to go bigger. So we went and had 2,500 people participate over eight weeks. We built over a thousand bots. And guess what? We drove over 200,000 hours back into the organization in just eight weeks. So super big success story. People loved it. Our teams were excited. We recognized over 200 people out of that with team awards, who submitted the most ideas. And even our top leadership said, let's do a presentation. So the guys and gals who had the top, biggest impact automations got to meet with our top senior leaders and present out to them. It's been awesome. And now we're starting to move that force. We're scaling bigger. We're actually going pretty big in Cognizant. We have some big goals right now. >> That's a gob of hours. Game of Bots, get it? GOB. >> (laughs) >> Come on, with me. >> It is a gob of hours. >> How do you measure the hours? Is it a back of napkin kind of thing? We ask people, Hey, how much, how what, how do you actually measure it? >> No, we actually track it. We could see how many hours people were doing a certain tasks and things that they do every day, whether they're running reports, submitting claims for a customer. And so we're able to see that that time is actually going down. We're faster. We get better quality. People were also able to get hours back in their day so they could do more value added work in the organization. So we actually do track it. And we're able to really measure those tangible outcomes for the teams. >> Sounds like you guys have been moving pretty quickly on this. >> We are. >> So the appetite at Cognizant was there, the culture was there to embrace it. Those are probably, I imagine, two big facilitators of being able to move at the speed and the scale, >> Yeah >> that, with what you're doing. >> Culture was there. We're really digitally savvy. I would say we're digital at heart in Cognizant. We are, we're really a tech company and we really focus on how to be at the forefront of all things when it comes to technology. But we said, we also want to transform how we work. So starting to shift the conversation from, you know, do you want to automate, to why not? How do we actually start talking about, you know, I have this to do list, but you know what, actually, we can improve if we did some of this other stuff instead. So let's free up that time, but use automation there and we can actually grow things. We can add more value. We do all that stuff on your to-do list that I think everybody has and they want to get to, but you get caught up in your day-to-day job all the time. So we're actually getting people to be more excited about and have a real voice. And I actually think that's important. Is that, it's not just about giving people the tool, it's about shifting our culture to really embrace digital, embrace this technology, because we're trying to transform how we all work. And we want to lead by example. >> So we talk about BPO. Business Process Optimization, right? It was kind of the buzz word of the '90s and early 2000s. A lot of times it meant putting in SAP. (chuckles) >> (Mariesa) (laughs) Yeah. >> So that's evolved. And there's some companies that would say, "Hey, we specialize in that," technology companies, obviously, >> (Mariesa) Yep. >> you know, SI's as well. How do you think about the difference between end-to-end enterprise automation and, and sort of traditional BPO? >> I think it has to come together a bit, is one thing. So when you do the BPO, or you do shared services, or you outsource some of the work. We actually put into those contracts, because we do a lot of that for our customers. And we put in automation. The step we took further was we actually started to empower people to actually build the automations themselves, which meant we actually had to work with customers too. So they knew we were doing this. We wanted to make sure they understood, they were comfortable. We put any controls in place that they also needed, to make sure that, you know, we didn't impact any of their services. We want to make it better. We want them to feel nothing but bigger, better results in outcomes. And then as you think about the enterprise side, we have to compliment, because a lot of those processes do feed back into how you run a business. And so we focus on how do you bring both of those stories together so that you're driving synergies across the board. And actually some good lessons learned along the way because some of this stuff becomes reusable. You have best practices you could share across the board. And we want to make sure that we are connecting the dots from the shared services BPO work, back into the enterprise because really a process is end to end, an organization. And we want to help people think that way and also get the results that way too. >> Is that end to end automation, at enterprise automation, more tech heavy, or, or maybe it's tech light in a way, whereas BPO is maybe a lot more, sort of, lean thinking, a lot more chalkboard. Are we deep into the, so I, sometimes, you're saying they have to come together. >> They do yeah. >> But from, from where I guess is, is what I'm trying to better understand. >> So I would think about it this way. When you think about a process, right, from when you even placed an order, the whole way through when you fulfill it for a customer. There's work that we, we do outsource all the time, right? So maybe it's the, the PO process, some of the order transactions from the payment, but you also have the pieces is actually touching the customer, too. You have the pieces that are fulfilling the order. So we say end to end, that is really thinking about that beginning, from a conversation with the customer, the whole way to when we're delivering. And I do think there's a lot of technology. That is something I think everyone gravitates to because there is a lot. Especially if you're going to go end to end, you have to be able to take in documents. You have automation. You're not going to know all the rules, no matter how many times you ask, you're going to need machine learning to be able to help figure it out and get smarter as what, as you go along the way. But as you're putting this into place, what's important is: as you're thinking about, kind of, transforming that business so that they're feeling the results the whole way through, because if you just focus on one, you might create a bottleneck, right? You might've got super fast, but the guy who's going to get the work from you, they're going to feel like, oh my goodness, there's all this work on my plate. So we really want to make sure that we create that seamless experience for everyone across the board, as we put it in. >> And how does UiPath, help facilitate that? >> Across the board, I mean, we were sitting down, we were laying out our program. 'Cause we're actually trying to get to 60,000 strong. So we have 7,000 trained today. We're going to get to 60,000. That's our plan. So we're working very closely with UiPath on what does that training that you need to have in place? What's that model? How do we get people comfortable? Because one thing you'll find is not everyone's in the same spot. Some are going to jump in, dive right in, give me the tool. I want to build. I love this. Others might need a little bit more confidence boost. They might need more handholding. And I think that's really important. And it's probably the one thing I would add too, as you do talk a lot about the technologies, we put it in, but it's the people at the end of the day, it's how you help them adopt, feel comfortable with this technology and really embrace it. That's really going to be the difference on whether, how fast you get down that line for transformation. >> Is it a classic bell curve? You got your 10% early adopters, you got a big fat middle, and then you've got some laggards who come along. >> It kind of is. And I think what's important is that middle is all up in how you do it because 10% are always going to love it. You're always going to have a few people, they're a little extra nervous maybe. But in the middle, if you really think about it, and you're able to put in that culture, you're able to put in your leadership is engaged. You're putting us in gamification, make it fun. That's what we found is, if we got people really having fun up front with it, it gives people a reason to be a part of it. And also, why don't we let people partner up? We can give them the technology, but if someone's not as comfortable, let us do teams. Let's meet people where they're at and then move them along this journey. And let's try to accelerate the best we can. >> How did you gamify it? Crypto. No. (chuckles) >> (laughs) >> (laughs) No, no crypto. But I will say we have some really cool prizes and people were super excited to get to do the presentations because they got to show their, their bots live, their creations, to the team. And I think that was important. Not everyone always is able to capture all the results, but we wanted to actually talk about like, what were the ideas, share it across the board. Cause it also generated ideas. because what you'll find is, when you hear something like, you know what, that's kind of what I do. Wonder if I could do some automation too. At least submit an idea, and then, maybe they're moving down the line, they're getting their hands on the technology. And I think that's how we all push the needle forward and move this along faster. >> One of the most important things about automation is letting people be able to move away from the mundane, the repetitive tasks, that they probably don't enjoy. And being able to focus more on their core competencies or more strategic initiatives that really make them more relevant to themselves and to their company. And it sounds like you guys have achieved that pretty quickly and, and you have an aggressive plan >> (chuckles) We do. >> to go from 7,000 to 60,000. >> Yes. And that's really the power of automation, if you think about it. We all have things in our job we don't like to do. I don't know about you guys, but there's things that I'm like, oh man, like, can we please automate this? Expense reports, for example. All about automated expense reports. (laughs) But it's really about freeing people up. Think about it. These people went to school, they often have degrees and things, and they do get caught in a lot of the manual things, downloading reports, consolidating data, you know, submitting spreadsheets and forms. Imagine if we're able to make that easier for people, we give them what they need to do their job. So that all that stuff you would like to do, that you know would improve things. You know would make the company better. The culture better. Heck, maybe it's a new product that people know would be really awesome to go build, but everyone feels like they're so busy. They don't have the time to do it. I mean, that's one of the big values of automation. Is this value creation conversation that you get to have with people. And you get to start asking 'why not' a little bit more. >> You've mentioned a couple of times the IDC presentation this morning. And we were talking about earlier, and the pie chart of, of, of value benefits was cost savings, which was very large, new revenue, which was very large. And then I think 15% was quality improvements. And that, I think that's an underappreciated slice of the pie. Somebody, I think years ago, of the UiPath FORWARD said to me, I can very inexpensively apply Six Sigma to business process. >> (Mariesa) Yeah. >> And I could never afford to do that before RPA. And, and so I wonder if you could talk to the quality impacts that you're seeing. >> Absolutely. I actually spent a lot of time in Lean Six Sigma in my early career days. And one of the things about it too, is when you're doing automation, we actually asked that question upfront, can we just simplify, can we just stop doing this? Because you don't want to automate a bad process either. So you want to ask some of those questions. >> (Dave) Yeah. >> But you're spot on. There's a ton of quality benefits that you get from automation. And one of the things I've actually seen is if you focus on some of the quality upfront, process gets better. Get better impact, as when you get faster. If you have better quality, and get faster, you also get your cost out targets. And I, that really matters because quality also, beyond being able to drive the cost out, it also helps a lot with the experience that people face. Customers are frustrated if they have poor quality, something doesn't work the way it's supposed to, a site's not working the way it should. And also even employees, they go, how many times, if you try to do something and you try to follow a process and something's hung up or who knows what happened, right. It's frustrating. So if you're able to improve the quality in the process, not only do you get the cost savings, but you get these, it's softer tan, there's still tangible experiences that get better and actually motivates people to want to do more. >> And those motivated people are probably dealing with customers much, much better. >> Yes, yeah. >> I mean, it's, I always think the employee experience is so, is, is a critical component. >> It is. >> But the customer experience. So how has the customer experience improved at Cognizant as a result of building in automation and enabling all these people? >> Yeah, they're loving the results because we're giving them back efficiencies in their process immediately by putting this automation in. These are quick impacts they're feeling and we're able to do more for them as well. So we're actually having conversations now on how do we drive more efficiencies for you and also, you know, how can we do more? Is there more volume of work? Is there more we could be doing to add value back to your organization? And that's what you want to talk about with customers is we're able to give you this value. And by the way, we actually did X for you now as well, because we knew you needed it. And we have the capacity to do this for you. So it's a really positive conversation, but we did have to upfront talk to them about it, to make sure that we, everyone was on board. They're comfortable. And we're continuing to have those conversations because you know, sometimes you're in a regulated business and we did put a little extra control in. Absolutely okay. But we want to be able to drive these efficiencies back for them. So they feel it in their own operations internally too. And it hits their bottom line and oftentimes helps their employees too, because we interact with them. So those downstream benefits and sometimes even upstream get some nice returns there as well. >> We've heard from, well, we're going to have Daniel on soon. He's the CEO. We've of course heard from CFOs. We've, that's kind of one of the main springs of RPA in the early days. We've heard a lot more CIOs at this event and we have a CTO coming on later. Are these C suite executives totally aligned in their objectives? Do they have they have different agendas? What are you seeing in terms of serving the C suite? >> Yeah. They're all going to have a little bit different agendas, right? Cause that's, their roles have different objectives, but they all align back to the strategy, obviously, for their company. But they're going to have portions of it that they're trying to drive and deliver. What we do see is that there's still some merging that needs to happen between the operations, the more business focused side and the more technical side. But we do, we're starting to see that convergence happen. Because what happens is, is that, you have these technologists, who really are going to have to help move you forward. We're, you know, we're applying AI, ML. Very technical technologies, and we want to make sure we do it right, that we put the right governance in. And we think about the security that we have to have in place for this too. And but we also have the business outcomes and coming together is where you really see the results. If you look at all of those that have reached true maturity, it's where you see these agendas aligning a bit more because you also have to shift the culture too. And it's a collaboration point. You need to be able to have the tech savvy folks. It helps bring them along this journey, but you also have to have the business depth as because you're looking at a process and you're going really deep into it to apply the technology. So it's when people partner is when we really see the results become more exponential. >> So digital transformation, you know, we hear that term a lot. And automation-led digital transformation. >> Yep. >> I hear a lot of data led digital transformations are those parallel tracks, or they can talk a lot about convergence. >> Yeah. >> Are they? I mean, they're not competing. They're obviously very much related. How do you see the data agenda and the automation agenda coming together. >> They have to. Because you really need good quality data to be able to enable your automation at the end of the day. And, but they actually play nicely together. You can actually use automation to help go back and improve your master data management too, which is the core of your information because that's actually where a lot of the struggle sometimes comes, is in the quality of the data that everyone has to work with. So you see the data agenda working on, "How do I clean this? How do I get more insightful, predictful information?" And then from an automation standpoint, how do I then use that to go take action? So all we see is you bring it together, to be able to identify where do you need to get in the process? How do I get the right information? So the automation also is proven data behind it, that we drove the outcomes, because that's where you take it to the bank at the end of the day. Is that you see it in the data itself. But I think one of the things I've seen with automation that helps drive the digital transformation conversation is, the business and IT teams are coming together and having a joint conversation now. People are excited. They're understanding it. I think that's why people jumped on with RPA so quickly, was because they're like, I get this, this is rule-based, this is my business process. I just tell it what to do. I'll take that. I want to do that. And so people got excited about that. And then they said, let's do more. How do I make it more intelligent? How do I help it do things in my process that it's harder for me to explain because there's just so much information here. There's so many nuances. Well, we have the technology can help make it more intelligent, smarter, and learn, so that we're able to drive that back into the business itself to transform. >> You mentioned Master Data Management is, is the data agenda as it relates to automation, primarily reporting, is it moving? Is it transcending reporting into the building of data products, for example, data services that can be monetized either within Cognizant or in your customer base? >> So it's really evolving. I would say some start with reports. That's easy. That's where we'll start, but I'll just kind of give you maybe a little example. So we have a customer and we work with them. So they have customers where they need to, when they call in, the sales folks and the contact centers, they have to upsell. So they work with a lot of different restaurants and different, maybe, bars and, you know, different companies that have different type of like beverages and things like that. So we worked with them to show, how are they performing today with all their sales reps? And then we started to use some automation to be able to get them more helpful information the moment the customer's calling in. And we also did some semantic analysis on a voice, how people were, how were they sounding? How was their tone? Were they happy? Were they upset? Were they sad during the call? And we fed that information back to those teams, back to those managers, and went back even to their training programs. What they actually saw was a ton of top line growth. They saw all of their metrics starting to get better, and they also start to get more predictive on ways that they can use more data to drive the support for those teams and their customers. Like for example, if you know holidays are coming up or a certain time of year with weather, we're able to actually put that type of information in and helps those sales reps better serve their customers. >> Last question, some of the announcements that came out yesterday and some of the news today about UiPath, what excites you about the technology and how it's going to continue to enable you to, to foster this new culture that you've shifted? >> I think, so one thing about UiPath that we've always loved to be able to partner with them as we're still customer centric. And you see that in every announcement that they're doing, and also they're focused on this true process transformation, intelligent end to end thinking, because I think a lot of times when we've had conversations most get stuck in kind of point solutions. And that's just because people are trying to solve today's problems. But with where UiPath is moving and where we want to move to, is how do we help you to really transform how people work? We know automation is a part of our future. We know it's going to be how we work in the future. And we love about UiPath is to really think about how do we integrate it? How do we make those connections? So we can drive the bigger results, we can make it easier for people to adopt and really embrace it because we need to bring the people along this journey and we need to be able to actually impact our processes too, so we can transform them. So I think that's one thing that's been really exciting is just watching them in general. Involved with the announcements the last couple of days, we really see them continue to push that needle. >> Excellent. Well, Mariesa, thanks for joining us. Talking to us about the automation-led digital transformation at Cognizant. Good luck raising your trained individuals from 7K to 60K. It sounds like the momentum is there. The culture's there. We can't wait to hear what happens next! >> Awesome. Thanks again for having me today. >> Our pleasure. >> Good to see you. >> Thank you. >> For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin live in Las Vegas at the Bellagio. UiPath FORWARD IV is the event we're covering. We'll be right back with our next guest. >> (bubbly outro music)

>>from the bellagio hotel in Las Vegas >>it's the >>cube >>covering Ui >>Path Forward four brought to you >>by Ui Path. >>Welcome back to las Vegas. The cube is live with you. I Path forward four at the bellagio lisa martin with Dave Volonte. We're gonna be talking about you I Path integration suite, we have a couple of guests joining us here. Mark Jeannie is here the GM of Ui Path, formerly the co founder and Ceo of cloud elements and Peter Villeroy also joins us Director of Global I. T. Automation practice at UI Path guys welcome to the program. >>Thanks lisa. Great to hear. >>So Mark, let's go ahead and start with you. The Cloud elements acquisition was done in about the last six months. Talk to us about why you chose to be acquired by Ui Path and where things are today. Some big announcements yesterday. >>Yeah absolutely. So yeah if you go back six months ago um you know we have been in conversations with you I Path for for quite a while and um you know as we were looking at our opportunities as an api integration platform. So cloud elements just to step back a little bit um was a leader in helping companies take a P. I. S integrate applications together and bed that into their into their apps and um you know I Path approached us about the combination of what's happening in the automation world and you know these these have been a society as the marine Fleming from I. D. C. Mentioned this morning integration and DARPA have been separate swim lanes and what we saw and what you I. Path approaches with was ability to combine these together and really be the first company to take and take ui automation and seamlessly connected together with A. P. I. Automation or api integration >>Peter What's been some of the feedback? We know you guys are more than 9000 customers strong now we've had a whole bunch of amount yesterday and today. What's been the feedback so far on the cloud elements acquisition? So >>there's a huge amount of interest. We've had very positive feedback on that lisa the combination of Ui driven automation and A. P. I. Uh Native Integrations is is key especially to the I. T. Leadership that I work with. Um some of whom have traditionally compartmentalized you ipads platform in the Ui space and legitimately think about their own internal processes as being having very little to do with the user interface right. And so combining Ui driven automation together with uh api integration really helps too pick them up where they are and show them the power of that kind of a hyper automation platform that can deliver value in a number of spaces. And you guys ever >>see the movie Blindside? All right. You know what I'm talking about with joe. Theismann gets hit from the blind side and then his career is over and and that's when people realized oh my gosh the left tackle for right handed quarterback is so important and it's subsequent drafts when somebody would pick a left tackle like a good left all the rest went and that's what's happening in in the automation business today. You guys took the lead, you you set the trend. People said wow this is actually going to be a huge market. And then now we're seeing all this gonna occur. And a lot of it from these big software companies who believe every dollar of software should go to them saying hey we can actually profit from this within our own vertical stacks. So what do you make of all the M. And A. That's going on in particular? There was one recently where private equity firm is mashing together a long time R. P. A vendor with a long time integration firm. So it looks like you guys, you know on the right >>side of history in this regard. Your thoughts. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean if you think about automation right you've got to obviously help people do their jobs better. But if you're going to automate a process and a department you needed connect the applications that they use that those people use otherwise you can't accomplish it. And where ap is fit in as is automation and ui automation has become more and more mission critical and it's become bigger and bigger part of enterprise I. T. Wants to get involved. And so enterprise gets involved and what's their stack. It's api based their technology stack is how you connect back is through api so more and more companies are seeing what you I path saw is that if you're gonna automate every process and every department for every person you need to connect to every application that they're using and that's why this is now becoming right. Three companies now just recently have done these types of acquisitions of bringing an integration platform in and combining them together are trying to combine them together. >>All mps are not created equally as we know. Some are sort of half baked lot of them. Many of them don't have decent documentation so there's sort of a spectrum there. How do you, how do you think about prioritizing? How do you think about the landscape? Do you just kind of ignore the stuff that's not well documented and eventually that will take care of itself. How should we think about there have always >>been layers of integration right. Especially working with the ICTy organizations. So you've got our native integrations would make it easy to drag and drop activities and then you've got the A. P. I. Is that we can consume with various activities. That area has really grown through the acquisition of cloud elements and then you've got that third layer where when all else fails, you go on to the user interface and interact with the application like a human does and what you see is that our our interaction with college elements really enables a great enhancement of that lower base level um which is mildly interesting to the lines of business very important. I Yeah, for sure. >>So the reason I asked that question is I was talking to one of your customers this big ASAP customers said I love you ipad. The problem I have is I got so many custom mods and so it's just you know orally documented and I can't I wanna put automation in there but I can't. So to those parts of the tech stack become like the main frame of you know what I mean? And just sort of they live there and they just keep doing their thing but there's so much innovation that pops up around it. How do you how do you see that? >>Well that's part of the agility that comes with the platform like you ipads is that you can interact with the very clean uh swagger documented restful aPI s and you can interact with SCP on their proprietary ages old A. P. I. S. Um Those are things that we've traditionally done decently well, but again through this acquisition we could do that on a grander scale um with bidirectional triggering and all the goodness that you >>solve that problem today that your customer and this is a couple of years ago, you can solve that problem with cloud elements. Is that right? >>Yeah, absolutely. The the ability to integrate too these enterprise platforms like ASAP you need multiple tools to do the job. Right. So ui automation is great but if you've customized ui significantly or other things like that then the A. P. I can be a great structure for it and other cases where um that api provides a resiliency in a in a scale to it that um opens up new processes as well to those corporate systems. Right? So the balance of being able to bring these two worlds together is where you can unlock more because you got >>east west automation >>that's very good overhead and now >>you're going north south with cloud elements is deeper. Right, >>bottom line from the VP of its point of view, the more that can be done from a machine to machine communication the better. So sure. >>What's the opportunity for the existing cloud elements customers to take advantage of here? >>Yeah, absolutely. Um We've continued to support, brought our customers over with us. Uh Part of our customer base has actually been a significant number of software customers. Uh cos S. A. P. S. One of them doc you sign gain site, you know, so household names in the world of software as well as large financial services institutions like US Bank and Capital One and american Express, all of them had that common need where um they wanted to have an api centric approach to being able to connect to customers and partners and leverage our platform to do that. So we will continue to support that extend that. But we see opportunities where again we couldn't automate everything for our customers just threw a PS And uh you know for example one of our major financial services institutions were working with wants to take um and provide a robot for their uh customers and commercial payments to be able to automatically kick off in A. P. I. And so that seamless integration where we can combine that automation with robots leveraging and kicking off a P. I. S automatically takes us further into automating those processes for those >>customers. So you guys six months right. Uh talk about how that integration api integration company better gone smoothly. But what was that like you guys are getting the knack of M and a talk about that, what you learn maybe what you would do differently to even accelerate further, How'd it go? Uh >>That's the best answer from you having been on the >>acquisition side. Um Well we how well it went is six months later, which I think is really unheard of in the technology world, we're introducing our combined offering you I Path integration service that essentially takes what cloud elements built embeds it right into automation. Cloud studio in the Ui Path products. We and uh it's been a global effort. Right? So we had the Ui Path team was based in Hyderabad Denver and Dallas and then we've got um Ui Path engineers working with that cloud elements team that are in Bucharest Bellevue and bangalore and with the miracles of zoom and uh that type of thing, never meeting anyone in person, we were able to integrate the product together and launch it here today >>six months is a fast turnaround time frame was how much of that was accelerated by the, by the fact of the global situation that we're in. >>Yeah, well you know in some respects that that helped right? Because we um um we didn't have to waste time traveling and we could hop on zoom calls instantly. We spent a lot of time even over zoom making sure there was a cultural fit. You I path has a, you know, not only the humble, bold and type of values but it's a very collaborative environment, very open and collaborative environment as Brent can attest to. And that collaboration, I think in that spirit of collaboration really helped us feel welcome and move quickly to pull this together. And also >>the necessity is the mother of innovation right. Uh you ipad traditionally being popular in the CFOs organization were becoming the C I O s best friend and the timing was right to introduce this kind of capability to combine with what we traditionally do well and really move into their picking up like I said the customer where they are and leading them into that fully end to end automation capability and this was integral. So it wasn't time to kick the tires but to get moving >>and my right, there's a governance play here as well because I. T. Is kind of generally responsible for governance if you make it easier for them to whatever governance systems they're using >>governance privacy >>security that now you can just connect. They don't have to rip and replace. Is there an angle there? >>Sure, yeah. So nothing is more important than I. T. Than than control and governments and change management and half of the uh conversations we're having out there on the floor are around that right um uh ensuring that all of the good governance is in place um and we have a lot of the uh integrations and frameworks necessary to help that through your devops pipeline and doing proper ci cd and test automation um and you know introducing that integration layer in addition to what we already have just helps all of that to uh move more smoothly and bring more value to our customers. >>Mark talk to me about some of the feedback from customers that you mentioned, doc Watson. S A P probably I imagine joint customers with you. I path now there you're working together, what's the what's in it for them? >>Yeah, no the feedback has been tremendous. Right, so um api automation is not new to you. I path but customers have been asking for more capability. So one of them is in that governance area that we were just talking about, right, the ability to create connections centrally enable them disable them. Right? You got mission critical corporate applications. You want to be able to make sure that those applications are being controlled and monitored. Right? So that was one aspect. And by bringing this as a cloud based service, we can accomplish that. Um the other area is that this eventing capability, the ability to kick off workflows and processes based on changes to corporate applications, a new employees added in workday. I want to kick off a process to onboard that new employee and that triggered eventing service has been really well received and then um yeah, so that I'd say with the ability to also create new connections more simply was the third big factor. Uh we created a standardized authentication service. So no matter where you are in the UI Path product line, you get a consistent way to create a new connection, whether it's a personal connection by a business user too, you know, google docs or Microsoft office or your C O E R I T. Creating a connection to uh an important corporate system. >>How about the partner? I know you guys had partner day here leading into forward for they must be stoked about this gives you a lever to even add new partners. What was those >>conversations like? Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. The partners are excited about those same features but um they're also excited about something in our roadmap which we expect to be previewing early next year and that's a connector builder. So the ability for partners to uh more quickly than ever create their own connectors. That'll work just like first party connectors that we ui Path build and add them into catalogs, share them in the market place. So there's new revenue opportunities, new opportunities for partners to create reusable assets that they can leverage and yeah so um lots of things, lots of work to continue to do, right? It's only been six months and uh but that's that's gonna be a big initiative going forward. >>So integration service as you mentioned, announced at this conference, we know that that's the first step obviously accomplished as we also talked about very quickly in a six month time period. But what does the future hold for api automation and integration service? >>So um one of the key areas just continue to expose the integration service um more broadly in the Ui Path product portfolio. Now that we have this service, more Ui Path products will be able to leverage it. Right? We're starting off with studio and orchestrator but that we can all use and share that common common capability. Um The other is to make access to complex business systems easier. So you think about it right. A uh to get a purchase order from net suite might take five or six api calls to do. Well, a citizen developer doesn't know what those five or six things you have to do. So we'll be creating these business activities or just get me open purchase orders that will work seamlessly in the studio product. And behind the scenes. Well, chain together those 56 aPI calls to make that a simple process. Right? So taking the integration service and making it even more powerful tool for that citizen developer than nontechnical user as well. So that's >>development work you're going to do. >>That's what we're gonna do as well as enable partners to do as well. So it's a key part of our road map over time. Because >>yeah I mean the partner pieces key because when net suite changes how it you're creating that abstraction layer. So but that's value add for the partners. >>Absolutely. And they have that domain expertise, right. They can create assets, leveraging the UI path automation capabilities but also bring their knowledge about A. S. A. P. Or workday and those oracle ebs and those core business systems and then combine that together into assets that enhance integration service that they build and I can I can share with their customers and share with our market >>because the work workday developer is going to know about that well ahead of time. No, >>it's coming and they know better than we do. Right. That's their business. That's what they know really well. >>Nice nice value at opportunity, peter >>One of the things that you iPad has been known for is its being very and I've said this on the program the last two days, that's being a good use case for land and expand. You guys have 70% of revenue that comes from existing customers. Talk to me about the cloud elements acquisition as a facilitator of because you kind of mentioned, you know, we're used to be really in bed with the cfos now we're going to see us and we've heard from a number of your customers where they started in finance and it's now Enterprise White, how is this going to help facilitate that? Even more? >>It really helps, you know, touching on what Mark just mentioned about the citizen developer, right, just as one of many examples, the empowerment of end users to automate things for themselves um is critical to that land and expand um successes that we've been seeing and where from an I. T standpoint, the frustration with the citizen developer is, you know, maybe what they're building isn't so top notch right? It works for themselves. What we can't replicate that, but put making it easy to make api integration part of what they do in studio X is so key to enhancing also the reusability of what's coming out of there. So that c uh C O E S can replicate that across teams are globally within their organization and that's part of land and expand because you may find something that's valuable in one line of business replicates easily into another line of business if the tool set is in place >>pretty powerful model lisa >>it is guys. Thanks so much for joining us today, talking about the club elements acquisition, what you're uh, doing with integration service, What's to come the opportunities in it for both sides and your partners? We appreciate your time. >>Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. I >>appreciate it. Thank you for >>David Want I'm lisa martin. You're watching the cube live in las Vegas at the bellagio Ui Path forward for stick around. We'll be right back. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm mm.

>>From around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of IBM. Think 20, 21 brought to you by IBM. Oh, welcome to here to the cube as we continue our series of IBM. Thank on John Walls. Your host here on the cube for our discussion with Scott Leighton, who is the senior partner and global finance transformation practice at IBM Scott. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. Good to see you today. >>Oh, great. See you, John. Thanks for having me. You >>Bet. Absolutely looking forward to it. Um, first off, I want you to just to put yourself in the CFO shoes these days, um, we're talking about this digital transformation and all that's occurring, particularly in finance and, and what are the, I guess, uh, issues or the challenges you think that are kind of keeping them up at night, and then we're gonna transition over to how you at IBM are trying to solve those problems for them. But first let's look at the CFO role. >>Sure, sure. Great question. And, and you know, if you'd asked us two years ago, we'd have a different answer in some ways, right? Uh, COVID has, has put a tremendous amount of pressure on businesses and CFOs in particular, especially when it comes to managing cash. Managing logistics, supply chain has been, has been pushed pretty hard to its limits. I think cash is, has always been King, but even more so now and their preservation of cash. Um, I think as well, we're now seeing in the last year or two, this push towards digitization, like you said, there was a long time in a lot of CFO's minds, a lot of reluctance around how fast they can move towards digitization, how, how quickly they could get people working remotely or using technology better move away from paper, invoices and things like that. And what we're finding is when people didn't have a choice, it happened relatively effortlessly. And so we've now seen a much broader appetite towards digitization leveraging tools, again, in pursuit of managing cash and creating efficiencies, reducing costs. So it's the same, it's the same benefits they've always looked at maybe a little bit more focused on cost and cash, but now the tools that they're able to use to, to, to make that happen are, are much more prevalent. They're much more open to their use. >>Yeah. So, so you're talking about, uh, making a decision voluntarily and then maybe external forces pushing you into and to, you know, try having decisions. So is that kind of where we are right now, where there is, there's really no option, uh, you gotta go, you have to make this kind of move. And so, um, you've got to answer to those external pressures and, and, and so this is not a voluntary mission. It's a must have in today's finance world. >>Yeah, I think so in the it's it's always been something that CFOs have wanted to move towards. Like no CFO will tell you that they love manual processes and they want stuff on paper, but there was always this ability to defer the decision and punt it a bit. And, and what's happened with the pandemic and changing the ways of working. It's forced that decision to happen again, I don't think it's created a citizen. It wouldn't have happened eventually, but it's certainly accelerated it and caused them to take it quicker. >>So you've conducted and it just released, you know, study the CFO study where you've looked at and categorized, I think interestingly enough of three kind of stacks of CFOs, uh, one's the star side, right. Uh, the other two are, are lagging a bit, uh, tell us a little bit about that, about the study and those categories. And then we'll break down a little bit into why that one group is the star side of this equation kind of what they're doing and then what you're suggesting the other two do. >>Gotcha, sure. Yeah. So, so what we do is when we, when we go and we do these surveys, we ask hundreds of CFOs, uh, how they think about their business, where they put their priorities in the business and compare that to the performance of their business. And what we find is that when you look at these, these different categorizations of, of, of CFOs and organizations, you have one that clearly stands above the rest in terms of performance. And what we find is there's a direct correlation between things like the usage of AI, things like agile methodologies, lots of different kind of almost cutting edge techniques in business, but also in technology that they're using to differentiate their businesses. And they're again, directly correlated with their performance in the market. >>So in terms of, of, um, I guess the lesson learned or how another CEO, CFO rather could learn from those, you know, this group that that's ahead of the game, what do you think is maybe the, some of the key takeaways that if I was on the outside looking in or observing someone who you think is doing it, you know, better than I am, right. Or, or maybe has a little more vision than what you're suggesting I have, what, what should I be looking at if I'm, if I realize I am in a deficit and there are people who are doing things perhaps in a more advanced state. Yeah, >>Yeah. Maybe, maybe a couple things. So one, we talked a little bit about digitization already ready, right? Leveraging technology more and more. Uh, and when we talk about technology, you can think about technology in a couple different ways. You can think about this concept of a next gen ERP, or you can think about this tech technology is more of a, like what's called an exponential technology. And our position would be that you, as a CFO or as a business, you want to get as much of an off the shelf ERP as you can, and then build your exponential technology around it. So your, your AI, your machine learning, your automation set that on top of, and around your ERP because it's inside the exponential technologies, you're going to create differentiation. So that's one thing that we're seeing is just the adoption of next gen DRPs and exponential tech. >>I think the other thing that we're seeing is a fundamental rethinking of the way that we're doing working, uh, in this it's agile, but it's so much more than that. We have a lot of discussions today with CFOs about agile. And we make this distinction that says, listen, you can be a CFO in a finance organization that practices agile, or you can be an agile organization. And there's a very big gap between them. And what we're seeing as our best CFOs are adopting this new agile. And they're saying, we're redefining the ways that we're doing work. We're, we're removing duplication. We're removing finance to finance the finance discussions, which is a tremendous waste, right. We're really trying to align our finance team, even though they're an internal team, we're trying to align them with value to the customer. Uh, so that's maybe the second one. And then, and then I'd say, you know, the third one is really focused on, uh, preservation of cash and using analytics to, to drive a better understanding of cash and how cash flows for the business. So whether it's, um, improving your inventory, turn, whether it's improving your payment term terms, um, any number of different ways to manage your cash and preserve it. And again, using technology to do that. So then ERP exponential tech, agile, and then leveraging tech to really drive value in the business. >>Is there, can you, you raised kind of an interesting point about that definition, difference or deficient definitional difference in, in agility? Is there a difference in perception and reality then I may do some people think that, you know, because they're employing certain philosophies or concepts in one respect that we're good across the board and that maybe they're not, I mean, is there, is there a gap there? >>Yeah. There absolutely is. You'd be surprised the conversation we have you, well, they say, well we're Oh yeah, we're doing stand-ups, we're doing retrospectives. We're doing mood marbles. That's those are agile practices. What we're talking about is are you, are you eliminating huge amounts of part of your work because it's no longer needed and it's no longer driving value. Are you tracking, uh, how agile, what kind of agile maturity your organization has and how you're driving towards a leaner more efficient organization? There's, that's a very big difference in, yeah. We have daily meetings with our team versus this concept of being able to create an organization that is itself agile and is itself lean and aligned with the business. Uh, a lot of folks think by doing the former they're accomplishing the ladder and the, the true measure, is it productivity when you do this step change to an agile organization, big, big numbers talking 40 50% in a matter of orders, not years, it really can be significant because again, because of the way you're fundamentally rethinking the way that work gets done >>Well, that'll get your attention in a hurry. Won't it. It's talking about those kinds of gains in those kinds of timeframes. That's significant. Yeah. >>Um, we, we, you know, when you look at it, we're, we're seeing the same kind of gains with agile in, let's say a year and a half that we saw with labor arbitrage in five or 10 years, it's really changing the way it works. And again, you have to, you have to have an open culture to accept like that you're not going to do things or that you're maybe not going to support the business and the way you have for the last three decades. But once you had come to accept that the productivity gains and the value that you're able to create, and again, we don't think about productivity in terms of reducing head count. We think about it reinvesting. So what can finance now do the, to higher value, add how can they make their seat at the table, bigger to better support decisions, to better drive the businesses concept of, of driving the top line versus controlling. The bottom line is very important. >>And obviously AI has got a big role in that, right. Um, I mean, so let's talk about the function of AI in terms of finance and, and what you see or what you're talking to your clients about in terms of, of how artificial intelligence can be better incorporated into their systems and processes. >>Yeah. Yeah, sure. Look with, with AI, you've got a lot of different ways that you can apply it, of course, but, um, where we see it really helping is, uh, traditionally when you look at the lower end of, of finance processes, you, you were able to apply automation relatively well. But what you're finding is, as you move up that complexity stack, you now start needing AI to give you a better opportunity to automate. It really allows you to help create the decision support. So we're seeing in things like, um, being able to read contracts and use AI to suggest accounting treatment where Segun and being able to, um, suggest best action. So when a problem is encountered in a business, any kind of business, right, it could be finance, it could be the core processes. It says, how have we dealt with this in the past? What is that successful or not? And using machine learning and AI, it's suggesting maybe you should take this action. And here's why, so it's, it's we, you know, artificial intelligence or augmented intelligence, we prefer the ladder, right? It's this, it's this technology that's designed to assist in decision-making and provides you with more data and analysis, and you could physically do on your own to make a better decision. >>You know, when you're talking about these, uh, these really grand strategic transformations, right. That are occurring and, and, and, and B people have big decisions to make. Um, but they're taking on big problems. So if you would just talk about some of those problems in terms of, you know, new platforms, new technologies, you know, these, these, you know, real life of conundrum, sometimes people run into and how they are dealing with that, how you're helping them deal with these big time challenges, especially like on the platform level. >>Sure. Yeah. There's so many where to start. Um, you know, you look at things around, uh, financial forecasting and, and it used to be when you would do financial forecasting, as an example, you'd have your financial analyst and they're looking at three years of history and they're trying to figure out, all right, where's your revenue gland for the quarter of the month, a year, whatever it is, whatever period it is. And what we're finding very, very quickly is three years is irrelevant. You have to be looking at what happened last week. What happened the week before that, especially the economy is changing so rapidly and AI can help with that. AI can help you because what it's doing is when you, when you now have to change your focus from years to weeks, you've got to start looking at different data sources to give you insight into what that means, strange things, right? >>Like if you're in retail, you've got to start looking at weather, you've got to start looking at sentiments. We look at where, uh, you know, previous months where lockdowns were happening to help you understand whether you should be doing more business online, or whether you're going to have more in-store retail as an example. So all of these different, external data sources that finance people may not have traditionally been using, we're now having to incorporate, because we don't have that, that Corpus of three years of business information that's reliable. Um, so financial planning is a good one. Um, what else is we is we think about how to, uh, leverage AI audit and controls are near and dear to my heart. I used to be an audit director and do investigations, things like that. And one of the things that we always struggled with was how do we, how do we leverage experience of the auditors or the investigators have gone before us? So we've implemented natural language processing and natural language search. So you can say, tell me about the most significant risks that we've found in China in the last two years and the AI and the machine learning is going through our database of documents and using, understanding what you asked and giving you a meaningful answer. It's not a Google search, right? It's giving you a meaningful answer, understands what significant is and understands the tone of the language and how it's being presented. Just a few examples around that. >>Yeah. I mean, to me, context is everything right? And that's where we were making this huge shift in terms of having a much greater awareness and a sensitivity to the real context of, of a data point that you're looking for. So you make a great point. Um, so before we close out, I always like to hear about a practical application. So if you could, um, you know, I don't know how comfortable you are with naming names or not naming names, but can you just give us an idea of maybe how you've worked with a CFO or CFOs in terms of identifying, uh, areas where they can improve or they can implement, uh, some of your, uh, of your, uh, uh, advice, some of your, uh, solutions and where it's worked, you know, where they've had great success and, and, uh, has inspired perhaps more success within their organizations? >>Yeah, sure, sure. I think my, and I, I won't name names, but I'll, I'll give you an idea because we do this a lot in different CFOs, but it's this, I like to think of it as sizing the appetite and then serving what they want to eat. So when we, when we meet with the CFO, we, we have a discussion with them about where their pain points are and talk about advisory. And then instead of serving them this banquet meal, let's start with the dishes they really like, and it's really important to them. So we create this bite size proposal, and we use that to, because again, the days of a hundred, 200, $300 million transformations, why would anybody do that anymore? You know, don't, don't tell my bosses that, but I like to start with a smaller bit, right? Let's prove the value. And then let's create a self-funded transformation where the value that you're creating, whether it's in working capital, whether it's, you know, D day sales outstanding, or an actual productivity, you create that value with a small pilot proof of concept, MVP, whatever you want to call it. >>And then you use that in a portion of those savings to then fund the next phase. And you can, you can build to a very large transformation project very quickly, but again, for the CFO, it's critical to demonstrate value at every step of the way. So we like to do what we call a POC MVPs. We do this through a garage. We may come together, uh, do some co-creation. We might leverage one of our partnerships like Solonus to bring this fact-based approach to the table, to help them understand where their problems are. We co-create the solution with them. And it's typically finance it, developers all in the room, building something unique. And we're not talking months, we're talking in the morning. We talk about what the problem is. The developers build it in the afternoon. And we show the CFO the next morning, what we're thinking and what it actually looks like. >>And it's this concept of the days of a paper deliverable are done because of the way that we've, that society as a whole has democratized technology and made it so accessible. You can, you can listen to the requirements in the morning and build it in the afternoon, iterate the next couple of weeks. So that by the end of a four to six week period, you've got this incredible minimum viable product that is actually creating value for the business. And then you scale it out. Uh, that's the way I liked the transform of CFOs. You, listen, you learn, you help them build, create, solve their problems and self-fund transformation. >>Uh, that's where the cherry on top that's dessert right there. You satisfy the appetite. So, uh, all the way through, right. Scott, thanks for the insights. I appreciate it. And I love the analogy too. It's really a really clear, I appreciate that. Thanks for the time. >>Thanks, John. Appreciate it. Have a good day. >>Yeah, you bet the same to you, Scott Layton, joining us here on, on IBM thing. Talk to you about the appetite and trying to satisfy the CFO needs today, providing a little more than the appetizer, but very significant main course. You're watching the cube and IBM thing.

>>from around the >>Globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome here to the cube as we continue our series of IBM Thank on john wall's your host here on the cube for our discussion with scott. Layton who is the senior partner and global finance transformation practice at IBM scott. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. Good to see you today. >>Great to see you john, thanks for having me. >>You bet. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Um first off, I want you just to put yourself in the CFO shoes these days, we're talking about this digital transformation and all that's occurring, particularly in finance and and what are the, I guess uh issues or the challenges you think that are kind of keeping them up at night and then we're going to transition over to how you at IBM. We're trying to solve those problems for him. But first let's let the CFO role. >>Sure, sure. Great question. And and you know, if you had asked this two years ago, we have a different answer in some ways, right? Uh Covid has has put a tremendous amount of pressure on businesses and CFOs in particular, especially when it comes to managing cash, managing logistics, supply chain has been has been pushed pretty pretty hard to its limits. I think cash has always been king, but even more so now in their preservation of cash. Um I think as well, we're now seeing in the last year to this push towards digitization, like you said, there was a long time in a lot of CFOs minds, a lot of reluctance around how fast they can move towards digitization. How how quickly they could get people working remotely or using technology better and move away from paper invoices and things like that. And what we're finding is when people didn't have a choice, it happened relatively effortlessly. And so we've now seen a much broader appetite towards digitization leveraging tools, again, in pursuit of managing cash and creating efficiencies, reducing costs. So it's the same, it's the same benefits. They've always looked at maybe a little bit more focused on cost and cash, but now the tools that they are able to use to to make that happen are are much more prevalent. They're much more open to their use. >>Yeah. So, so you're talking about making a decision voluntarily and then maybe external forces pushing you into into, you know, driving decisions. So is that kind of where we are right now, where there is, there's really no option. Uh you gotta go, you have to make this kind of move. And so you've got to answer to those external pressures. And and so this is not a voluntary mission. It's a must have in today's finance world. >>Yeah, I think so. And look, it's it's always been something that Cfos who wanted to move towards, like no CFO will tell you that they love manual processes and they want stuff on paper. But there was always this ability to defer the decision and punted a bit and and what's happened with the pandemic and changing the ways of working? It's forced that decision to happen again. I don't think it's created decision that wouldn't have happened eventually, but it's certainly accelerated it and cause them to take it quicker. >>All right. So you've conducted and just released study the CFO study where you've looked at and categorized. I think interestingly enough of three kind of stacks of Cfos ones the star side, right? Uh The other two are lagging a bit uh Tell us a little bit about that about the study and and those categories. And then we'll break down a little bit into why that one group is the star side of this equation. Kind of what they're doing and then what you're suggesting the other to do to catch up. >>Sure. Yeah. So so what we do is when we when we go and we do these surveys, we asked hundreds of cfos how they think about their business, where they put their priorities in the business and compare that to the performance of their business. And what we find is that when you look at these these different categorizations of of of cfos and organizations, you have one that clearly stands above the rest in terms of performance. And what we find is there's a direct correlation between things like the the usage of ai things like agile methodologies, lots of different kind of almost cutting edge techniques in business, but also in technology that they're using to differentiate their businesses and their again directly correlated with their performance in the market. >>So in terms of I guess the lesson learned or how another ceo CFO rather could learn from those, you know, this group that that's ahead of the game. What do you think is maybe some of the key takeaways if I was on the outside looking in or observing someone who you think is doing it better than I am or maybe has a little more vision than what you're suggesting, I have. What what should I be looking at if I'm if I realize I am in a deficit and there are people who are doing things perhaps in a more advanced state than I am, >>maybe maybe a couple of things. So one we we talked a little bit about digitization already ready, Right, leveraging technology more and more. Uh and when we talk about technology, you can think about technology in a couple different ways. You can think about this concept of a next gen er P or you can think about this technology is more of like what's called an exponential technology and our position would be that you as a as a CFO or as a business, you want to get as much of an off the shelf prp as you can and then build your exponential technology around it. So you're you're a i your machine learning, your automation set that on top of and around your E R P. Because it's inside the exponential technologies, you're going to create differentiation. So that's one thing that we're seeing is this adoption of next gen er PS an exponential tech. I think the other thing that we're seeing is a fundamental rethinking of the way that we're doing working. Uh it's agile, but it's so much more than that. We have a lot of discussions today with Cfos about agile and we make this distinction and says, listen, you can be a CFO and finance organization that practices agile or you can be an agile organization and there's a very big gap between them and what we're seeing is our best CFOs are adopting this new agile or methodology. And they're saying, we're redefining the ways that we're doing work. We're removing duplication, we're removing finance to finance the finance discussions, which is a tremendous waste, right? We're really trying to align our finance team, even though they're an internal team, we're trying to align them with value to the customer. uh so that's maybe the 2nd 1. And then, and then I'd say, you know, the third one is really focused on uh preservation of cash and using analytics to to drive a better understanding of cash and how cash flows through the business. So whether it's um improving your inventory turn whether it's improving your payment term terms, um any number of different ways to manage your cash and preserve it. And again using technology to do that. So again E. R. P. Exponential tech, agile and then leveraging tech to really drive value in the business. >>Is there can you raise a kind of an interesting point about that definition difference or deficient? Definitional difference in agility? Is there a difference in perception and reality? Then I may do some people think that you know because they're employing certain philosophies and concepts in one respect that were good across the board and and that maybe they're not. I mean is there is there a gap there? >>Yeah, there absolutely is. You'd be surprised the conversation we have you. Well, they say, well, we're, oh yeah, we're doing stand ups, were doing retrospectives, were doing mood marbles, that those are actual practices. What we're talking about is are you, are you eliminating huge amounts of part of your work because it's no longer needed and it's no longer driving value? Are you tracking uh, how agile, what kind of agile maturity your organization has and how you're driving towards a leaner, more efficient organization. There's, that's a very big difference. And yeah, we have daily meetings with our team versus this concept of being able to create an organization that is itself agile and is itself lean in align with the business. Uh, a lot of folks think by doing the former, they're accomplishing the ladder. And the true measure is productivity when you do this, step change soon. And I'll organization Big big numbers starting 40 50 in a matter of quarters, not years. It really can be significant because again, because the way you're fundamentally rethinking the way that work gets done >>well, that'll get your attention in a hurry, won't it? You're talking about those kinds of gains in those kinds of timeframes, that's significant. >>When you look at it, we're seeing the same kind of gains with agile in, let's say, a year and a half that we saw with labor arbitrage in five or 10 years, it's really changing the way where and again, you have to, you have to have an open culture to accept like that you're not going to do things or that you're maybe not going to support the business and the way you have for the last three decades. But once you have come to accept that the productivity gains and the value that you're able to create and again, we don't think about productivity in terms of reducing headcount, we think about it reinvesting. So what can finance now due to higher value add? How can they make their seat at the table bigger to better support decisions, better drive the business. This concept of of driving the top line versus controlling the bottom line is very important, >>and obviously AI has got a big role in that. Right? I mean, so let's talk about the function of A I in terms of finance and and what you see or what you're talking to your clients about in terms of how artificial intelligence can be better incorporated into their systems and processes. >>Yeah. Yeah, sure. Look with with Ai you've got a lot of different ways that you can apply it of course. But um where we see it really helping is traditionally when you look at the lower end of finance processes, you you were able to apply automation relatively well, but what you're finding is is you move up that complexity stack, you now start needing a i to give you a better opportunity to automate. It really allows you to help create the decision support. So we're seeing it in things like um being able to read contracts and use ai to suggest accounting treatment. We're seeing it and being able to um suggest best action. So when a problem is encountered in a business, any kind of business, right. It could be financed, it could be the core processes, it says, how have we dealt with this in the past? Was that successful or not? And using machine learning and ai it's suggesting maybe you should take this action and here's why. So it's it's we, you know, artificial intelligence or augmented intelligence, we prefer the latter, Right? It's this it's this technology that's designed to assist in decision making and provide you with more data and analysis and you could physically do on your own to make a better decision. >>You know what you're talking about these uh these really grand strategic transformations right, that are occurring and and and people have big decisions to make, but they're taking on big problems. So if you would just talk about some of those problems in terms of new platforms, new technologies, you know, these, you know, real life uh conundrums, sometimes people run into and and how they are dealing with that. How you're helping them deal with these big time challenges, especially like on the platform level. >>Sure, yeah, there's so many where to start. Uh you know, you look at things around uh financial forecasting and and it used to be and when you would do financial forecasting is an example, you'd have your financial analyst and they're looking at three years of history and they're trying to figure out all right, where's your revenue? The land for the court of the month, year, whatever it is, whatever period it is. And what we're finding very, very quickly is three years is irrelevant. You have to be looking at what happened last week, what happened the week before that, especially as the economy is changing so rapidly. And a I can help with that Ai can help you because what it's doing is when you when you now have to change your focus from years to weeks, you've got to start looking at different data sources to give you insight into what that means. Strange things right? Like if you're in retail, you've got to start looking at whether you've got to start looking at sentiment. We look at where uh you know previous months where lockdowns were having to help you understand whether you should be doing more business online or whether you're gonna have more in store retail as an example. So all of these different external data sources that finance people may not have traditionally been using. We're now having to incorporate because we don't have that that corpus of three years of business information is reliable. Um So financial planning is a good one. Um What else is we as we think about how to uh leverage ai audit and controls are near and dear to my heart. I used to be an audit director and do investigations, things like that. And one of the things that we always struggled with was how do we how do we leverage experience of the auditors or the investigators have gone before us. So we've implemented natural language processing and natural language search. So you can say tell me about the most significant risks that we found in china in the last two years and the Ai and machine learning is going through our database of documents and using understanding what you asked and giving the meaningful answer. It's not a google search, right? It's giving you a meaningful answer, understands what's significant is and understands the tone of the language and how it's being presented. Just a few examples around them. >>Yeah. I mean to me context is everything right And and that's where we were making this huge shift in terms of having a much greater awareness and and a sensitivity to the real context of of a data point that you're looking for. so you make a great point. Um So before we close that always like kind of like to hear about a practical application, so if you could um I don't know how comfortable you are with naming names are not naming names, but can you give us an idea of maybe how you've worked with a CFO or cfos in terms of identifying areas where they can improve or they can implement uh some of your of your advice, some of your solutions and where it's worked, you know, where they've had great success and and has inspired perhaps more success within organizations. >>Yeah, sure, sure. I think my and I won't name names but I'll give you an idea because of that. We do this a lot of different cfos but it's just I like to think of it as sizing the appetite and then serving what they want to eat. So when we when we meet with the CFO we we have a discussion with them about where their pain points are and talk about advisory and then instead of serving them this banquet meal let's start with the dishes they really like and it's really important to them. So we create this bite sized proposal and we use that because the days of 102 103 $100 million transformations, why would anybody do that anymore? You know, don't don't tell my bosses that but I like to start with you know a smaller bit right let's prove the value and then let's created self funded transformation where the value that you're creating, whether it's in working capital, whether it's you know day to day sales outstanding or an actual productivity. You create that value with a small pilot proof of concept, M. V. P. Whatever you want to call it and then you use that in a portion of those savings to then fund the next phase. And you can you can build to a very large transformation project very quickly. But again for the CFO it's critical to demonstrate value at every step of the way. So we like to do what we call um P O C M E P S, we do this through a garage, we may come together do some co creation, we might leverage one of our partnerships like Solonius to bring this fact based approach the table to help them understand where their problems are. We co create the solution with them and it's typically financed I. T. Developers all in the room building something unique and we're not talking months, we're talking in the morning, we talk about what the problem is. The developers build it in the afternoon and we show the CFO the next morning what we're thinking and what it actually looks like. And it's this concept of the days of a paper deliverable are done Because of the way that we've the society as a whole is democratized technology and made it so accessible. You can, you can listen to the requirements in the morning and build it in the afternoon. Iterate the next couple of weeks so that by the end of a 4-6 week period, you've got this incredible minimum viable product that is actually creating value for the business and then you scale it out. Uh that's the way I like to transform with CFOs. You listen, you learn, you help them build, create solve their problems in self fund transformation. >>That's for the cherry on top. That's dessert right there. You satisfied the appetite so >>all the way through. Right scott. >>Thanks for the insights. I appreciate it. And I love the analogy to it's really, really clear. I appreciate that. Thanks for the time today. >>Thanks john, appreciate it. Have a good day. You >>bet the same to you scott. Layton joining us here on IBM thing, talking about the appetite and trying to satisfy the CFO needs today, providing a little more than the appetizer but very significant. Main course. You're watching a cube and IBM thing. >>Yeah, yeah.

>>from >>Around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to IBM Think 2021 we're gonna dig into the intersection of finance and business strategy. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cubes continuous coverage of IBM thinking with me is brian Hoffman is the chief operating officer of IBM Global financing, brian, thanks for coming on the cube today. >>Good morning, Great to be here. >>Hey, good morning. So I think we've heard a lot about the impact of hybrid cloud ai digital transformation and I wonder as a finance person in a former CFO, what do you see? And how do you think about some of the key considerations and financials and strategies that are supporting these major projects? Right? We got to come to the CFO and say, hey, we want to spend some money and here's the benefit, here is the cost. How can see IOS and their teams work with CFOs to try to really accelerate that digital transformation. >>Great question. And actually that question, I think I might have answered it a little bit differently, like two years ago, a year ago before the pandemic, I think it's actually changed a little bit with pandemic in my experience is the CFO people would come into me for projects and there's three ways you can justify it, but you can justify short term immediate, quick payback kind of hitters, you can justify it with, you know, improving our efficiency or effectiveness, um you know, reducing costs in the long run, making the client experience better or more from a strategic point of view, um you know, growing revenue getting to new clients, improving margins right? And so the the hybrid cloud transformation journey really still addresses those three things and when we come in, a lot of people focus like I said, on that third strategic point, but but all three of those come into play, and what's really interesting now is is as I'm dealing with it, I'm talking to other Cfos. The pandemic is really, if you will throw in a wrinkle in here, right? So the clients that I'm talking to, the IBM clients, they have to operate their business very differently and and their business models, some of them are changing clearly. Their clients, their business models are changing their operating differently as well. Um So, so our clients have to react to that and Hybrid Cloud and that that that type of of a structure really can support that. So there's really an emphasis here now to act with much more speed on this journey to get moving on it to get there because you have to make these changes and doing those two things in concert really has a ton of business value. >>Yeah I mean the cfos that I've talked to in the C. I. O. S. It's really kind of industry dependent, right? If you're in airlines or hospitality was like uh we got to cut costs. A lot of organizations said okay we're gonna support remote workers put in V. D. I. Or deal with endpoint security or whatever it was. But we're actually gonna double down on our digital transformation. This is we're gonna lean into an opportunity for us to come out stronger. How did you guys approach it in terms of your own internal digital >>transformation? Yeah. We we we were working on our digital transformation uh a little bit before the pandemic and it kind of followed those those three uh those three items when they when they first started implementing it, they came in and said hey if we can if we can move to a cloud platform, our infrastructure savings will be pretty significant. You know the I. T. Infrastructure savings will be 30 to 40%. So you know, quick payback CFO types love that. So you know, we went forward with that. Um but then quickly we saw the real benefits of moving to a hybrid cloud strategy. So just as an example as we were making some of these changes, we found a workflow tool in one of our markets in europe, that was a great tool and uh if we wanted to implement that across the business um in the old days, You know, we're in 40 countries, we've got 2500 employees, three lines of business. It would have been very complex because our operating structure is is very robust, very complex. Um Probably have taken a year, two years to do that. But since we are now on a cloud platform we got that rolled out that workflow tool rolled out across our business in months, Saving 20-30 of of workload. Being much more um efficiently getting to our clients and reacting quickly to them. And in fact that tool got adopted across IBM because that cloud platform enabled that to happen. And then the great thing which I didn't even realize at the time but now thinking more strategically um are my I. T. Resource earlier was running at about 50 50 50 people working on maintenance. The kind of things with 50 on development as we've now transition to this cloud. My I. T. Resources now 70 plus percent dedicated to new development. So now we can go attack new things that really provide customer value in the pandemic. You know the first thing to look at is can we get into more um you know electronic contracts, E signatures, things that would provide value to customers anyway. But in the pandemic is like really a significant, you know differentiator for us. So all those things were enabled by that journey that we've been taking, >>interesting. I mean most of the CF I uh in fact every CFO I know of a public company took advantage of cheap debt and improving their balance sheets. And liquidity is not the problem today, especially in the tech industry at the same time. You know I'm interested in how companies are using financing. They don't want to necessarily build out data centers but they do want to fund their digital transformation. So what are you seeing in terms of how your customers are using financing? You know, what's the conversation like? What advice are you giving? >>Yeah. So um you know, it depends a little bit on the type of customer, like you said, you know, we we deal with a lot of the biggest, strongest customers in the world. And, and as we deal with them, financing really helps the return on their investment, right, aligning the payments of those cash flows for when they're getting the benefits. Uh And and we see a real good value in improving the return on those investments in helping, you know, if it's something that's going to go to the board that really makes a difference to them. Uh So, you know, that that's always been a value proposition. It continues to be. Um The other thing that's helping now, like you said, is even in this environment, people want to accelerate this transition. Um but it's a, it's a, it's a big time of uncertainty. So, you know, some of the smaller clients, some of the more uh you know, the industries that are a little more cash constrained airlines, et cetera, you know, they're looking for the the immediate cash flow benefits. Um But many of the cfos are saying, hey, listen, you know, I can I want to go as fast as I can help me put together a structure that lets me, you know, get this in place as quick as possible, but not below my budget is not make me take too much risk in this time of uncertainty, but keeps me moving and I think that's where financing really comes in as well. Um And we're kind of talking much more about that value proposition than just if you will be improved ri proposition that we've had all along. >>I want to talk a little bit more about IBM global financing. I mean, people, a lot of times people misunderstand it. You know when you look at I. B. M. S. Debt, you gotta you gotta take out the piece that IBM global financing because that's a significant portion and that's sort of self self fulfilling. But what do people need to know about IBM global financing, >>We actually run three different businesses and we've been transforming our strategy over time. So you know right now with with IBM being all in on hybrid, we are very focused on helping IBM and IBM clients on this digital journey on IBM growing their revenue. Um you know, we we in the past have been more of if you're really full service. It finance are doing a lot more than just IBM but we are really focused now on on helping IBM. So I think the best thing for for IBM clients to know is as you're talking to IBM about the total solution, the total value profit IBM brings that financing, that cash flow solution should be embedded in what they're looking at and can provide a lot of value. Um You know, the second thing I think most people know is we provide financing for IBM s channel, so you know, distributors, resellers etcetera, if you're an IBM distributor or reseller, you know about us, because just about 100% of IBM partners use us to provide that working capital financing, uh you know, we have a state of the art platforms were just so integrated with them. Again, I don't have to I don't have to do a sales pitch on that because they don't know us. Um and the third one just because people might not realize this is, we do haven't we call it an asset recovery business, um it's a pretty small business, you know, it's bringing back equipment that comes off lease, so that uh is used by IBM internally. Um and while, you know, it's not, it's not as well known, I'm pretty proud of it because it really does help with the focus that the world that IBM has on sustainability and reuse and um and making sure that, you know, we're treating the planet fairly here, so that that's a small but powerful piece of our business well, >>You're quite broader than leasing mainframes in the 80s, >>that's for sure. >>Talking more about give, you can double click on that sort of hybrid cloud and obviously machine intelligence is a big piece of those digital transformation. So, so how specifically are you, are you helping clients really take advantage of things like hybrid cloud? >>So yeah, so um what we have typically had been doing and I can give you a couple different examples if you will, you know, for larger clients. What we tend to be doing is helping them like I said, accelerate their business. So um, you know, they're looking to modernize their applications but they still have a big infrastructure in place and so they'll run into uh you know, budget constraints and and you know, cash is still be careful to managed. So for them we are much more typically focused on, you know, if you will project based financing that allows those cash flows to line up with the savings. Again, those are tend to be bigger projects that often go to boards that return benefit is very important. Ah a little bit different value proposition for more mid market customers. So, you know, as I was kind of just looking recently, we have a couple of different customers like form engineering um or or Novi still there to smaller uh compared to some of the other customers we use uh they are again much more focused on how do I, how do I conserve and best use my cash immediately? But they want to get this, they want to get this transformation going. So you know we provide flexible payment plans to them so they can go at the rate and pace that they need to, they can align up those cash deals with their budgets for their business cycles etcetera. So again, where smaller customers where timing of the cash flow in their business cycle is very important. We provide that benefit as well. >>You know, I wonder if I could ask you. So you remember of course the early days of public cloud, one of the first tail winds for public cloud was the pen was not the pandemic, the for the financial crisis of 2007. And a lot of CFO said, Okay let's shift to uh to an apex model. And now you can always provide financial solutions to customers. But it seems like today when I talk to clients, it's it's much more integrated, it's not just the public cloud, you can do that for on premises and again you always could do that. But it seems like there's much more simpatico uh in the way in which you provide that that that solution is that >>fair? Absolutely. And this might be a little to finance geeky, I don't know. But if you go back, well if you go back to the financial crisis and all that and at that time um a lot of people were looking to financing for you call that ah please. But you know if if I was talking about off balance sheet transactions right? Um and and you know between regulation etcetera etcetera, that that off balance sheet thing. First of all, people are seeing through it that much more clearly. But second, you know the the uh financial disclosure say you kind of have to show that stuff so that that if you will, window dressing benefit has gone away. So now which is great for me, we really get to talk about what's the real benefit, what is the, you know, what is the real benefit of? You know, you want to make sure that you have known timed expenditures. You know that if your business grows that your your expenses can grow evenly with those with that business growth, you don't have to take big chunky things and so you know uh financing under the covers of an integrated solution and IBM has a lot of those integrated solutions allows businesses to have that, you know, known timing known quantities. Most of the benefits that people were looking for from that affects cloud model. Um without, you know, some of the problems that you have, when you try to have to go straight to a public cloud for very, you know, big sensitive businesses, confidential confidential data etcetera. >>Thanks for that. So, okay, we're basically out of time. But I wonder if you could give us the bumper sticker and key takeaways, maybe you could summarize for our audience. >>Yeah. For those that noah global financing or dealing with IBM, my view would be in the past we might have been a little more, you know, out there with our own with our own banner etcetera. In the future. I think that you should expect to see us very well integrated into anything you're doing. I think our value proper is clear and compelling and and and will be included uh in these hybrid con transformations to the benefit of our clients. So that's that's our objective and we're well on our way there. >>Great. Anywhere, anywhere I'm gonna go for more, more familiar, obviously IBM dot com. You got some resources there. But there is >>there any Absolutely dot com? There's there's a thank you. Just probably a slash financing. But yeah, there's >>were >>loaded with information of people. >>Excellent brian thanks so much for coming to the cube. Really great to have you today. >>I appreciate the time. >>My pleasure. Thank you for watching everybody's day. Volonte for the Cuban. Our coverage of IBM think 2021, the virtual edition right back.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante over the past 150 days virtually everybody that i know in the technology industry has become an expert on covid in some way shape or form we've all lived the reality that covet 19 has accelerated by at least two years many trends that were in motion well before the virus hit the cyber security sector is no exception and one of the best examples where we have witnessed the accelerated change hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll update you on the all-important security sector which remains one of the top spending priorities for organizations and i want to give you a shout out to my colleague eric bradley from etr who gave me some really good data and some macro insights as well as some anecdotal data from csos for this episode let's take a look at the big picture first now for many years we've talked about the shifting patterns in networking moving from what's often referred to as a north-south architecture meaning a hierarchical network that supports you know age-old organizational structures well today the network is flattening into what they often refer to as an east-west model and the moat or perimeter it's been vaporized the perimeter is now wherever the user is and users are at home or they're at their beach houses thanks to kovid now this is a bad actor's dream as the threat surfaced has expanded by orders of magnitude and as we've said in the past the adversary is well funded extremely capable and highly motivated because the roi of infiltration and exfiltration is outstanding the cso's job quite simply stated is to lower that return on investment now the other big trend that we see is that the cloud and sas are reducing reliance on hardware-based solutions like traditional firewalls because so many workers are now at home they're in their accessing sensitive data identity and endpoint security are exploding xdr or extended detection and response and zero trust networks are on the rise organizations are increasingly relying on analytics and automation to detect and remediate threats you know alerts just don't cut it anymore i need action and so to do so they're turning to a number of best of breed point products that have the potential to become the next great security platforms and this is setting up an epic battle between hot startups that are growing very very quickly and entrenched incumbents that really aren't going to go down without a fight finally while security is clearly a top spending priority customers and their cfos continue to be somewhat circumspect with respect to how much they allocate toward security budgets especially in the context of a shrinking i.t spending climate that we have said is dropping between five and eight percent in 2020. now security is critical but even in these times spending is governed by these tight budgets well cyber remains a top category in the etr taxonomy in terms of its presence in the data set what this chart tells us is that cios and i.t buyers have other priorities that they have to fund this data shows a comparison of net scores over three survey dates october of last year april and july net score remember is an indicator of momentum which is calculated by subtracting the percent of customers spending less on the technology from those spending more it's more complicated than that but that's that's the basics and you can see that at a 29 net score the security sector is just one of many priorities that i.t buyers face now remember this is the july survey and it's asking customers are you planning to spend more or less in the second half of 2020 relative to the first half and it's a forward-looking metric so what may be happening here is that the height of the lockdown and in the u.s anyway and the pivot to work from home organizations were spending heavily and are now fine-tuning those investments and maybe addressing other digital priorities let's look back and do some pre and post-covet assessments of various players within the etr data set i'm gonna go fairly quickly through these next slides but i want to give you a perspective as to how the security landscape and the vendor momentum has changed in the past eight months first i'm going to take you back to the january data set we actually originally did this exercise last year and then we updated it right at the beginning of 2020. the chart shows the top-ranked cyber security companies based on two metrics the left-hand side sorts the data and ranks companies based on net score or spending momentum and the right-hand side shows the ranking by shared n which is a measure of the pervasiveness of a company in the data set i.e the number of mentions that they get in the sector and what we did is we gave four stars to those companies that showed up in the top of both of those rankings and two stars to those that were close so you can see that microsoft splunk palo alto and proofpoint as well as octa and crowdstrike and then we added z scalar in january as new and then cyber arc software all got four stars then we gave cisco and fortinet two stars now this next chart shows the same thing at the height of the u.s lockdown now you may say okay what's the difference there's still microsoft palo alto proof point octa cyber arc z scaler and crowdstrike at four stars with cisco and fortnite having two star stars splunk fell off but that's it well what's different is instead of making the cut the top 22 which we did last time we narrowed it down to the top ten in order for a company to make that grade so if we had done that in january octa crowdstrike zscaler and cyberark they wouldn't have made the cut but in april they did as their presence in the dataset grew and we strongly believe this is a direct result of the work from home pivot crowdstrike endpoint octa identity access management z-scaler cloud security and they're disrupting traditional appliance-based firewalls now just to note we placed dell emc which was rsa and ibm in the list just for context now let's take a look at the most recent july survey now a lot of i'm out on a limb a little bit here because many of these companies they haven't reported yet so we don't have full visibility on their business outlook but we show the same data for the most recent survey the red line that you see there is the top 10 cutoff point and you can see splunk which didn't make the cut in april is back on the four-star list it's very possible buyers took a pause last quarter and focused attention on work from home but splunk continues to impress as it shifts toward the subscription model that we've talked about in the past splunk has a very strong hold on the sim space but everyone wants a piece of splunk especially some of the traditional firewall companies who they're seeing their hardware business dying so we're watching the competition from these players but also some other players like tennable now proof point fell off the four-star list because its net score didn't make the top ten crowdstrike cyber arc and zscaler also fell back because they dropped below the top 10 in shared in but we still really like these companies and expect them to continue to do well you know it could be some anomalies in the survey but we're trying to be as transparent as possible with you share the data listen to it interpret it and really adjust our models accordingly each quarter now let me make a few points and try to interpret what might be happening here first i want to point out octa pops to the top of the net score ranking overtaking crowdstrike's momentum from the last survey now one customer in the financial services sector told eric bradley on a recent then we're seeing amazing things from octa but the traditional firewall companies are stepping into identity they may not be best of breed but they have a level of integration and that's appealing to this individual this person also specifically called out palo alto and fortinet is trying to encroach on that space so keep your eyes on that now crowdstrike has declined noticeably which surprised us z z scalar is actually showing more momentum relative to the last survey so that's a positive palo alto and microsoft are consistently holding serve and continue to be leaders proof point and cyber arc are showing a bit of a velocity drop and sales point and tenable are also catching our attention in this survey and of course sales sale point which is identity management had a great quarter and reinstituted its guidance giving us the benefit of hindsight on its performance so it was actually pretty easy to give them two stars now just a side note by the way we've cut the data here with those companies that have more than 50 mentions in the sector we didn't do that the first time we did this we allowed companies with less than 50. so we're trying to tighten that up a bit so we still maintain strongly that you're seeing cloud endpoint and identity as the big security themes here csos need tools to be responsive they don't want to just get an alert secops pros would rather immediately shut off access and risk pissing off a user than getting hacked and companies are increasingly turning to ai to detect and they're relying on automation to remediate or protect and fence off critical resources let's now look at the two players or players in our two-dimensional view followers of this program know that we like to plot vendors within a sector across two of our favorite metrics net score or spending momentum which is a simple metric that tracks those spending more versus less on the technology and market share which measu measures a vendor's pervasiveness in the data set and it's calculated by taking the number of mentions a vendor gets within a sector divided by the total responses what we show here are the key security players that we've highlighted over the last several quarters let me start with microsoft microsoft has consistently performed well in the security sector as well as other parts of the etr taxonomy as you know they have a huge presence in the survey which is indicated on the horizontal axis and you can see they have a very solid net score which is shown on the y-axis impressive for a company their size now one interesting thing is you don't see aws in this chart and it's because aws and microsoft at least so far have somewhat different strategies with respect to security microsoft with its long application software history and sas presence across office 365 and sharepoint etc with active directory has been really focused on selling security solutions to directly protect its apps they have offerings like defender atp which is advanced threat protection sentinel which is microsoft sim cloud offering azure identity access management and the company's really going hard after this space now aws of course prioritizes security but they don't show an etr data set the same way microsoft does it's almost like aws is hiding in plain sight look aws has always put a great deal of emphasis on security and securing its infrastructure like the s3 buckets and it's you know it announced iam for ec2 way back in 2012. and last year at its reinforced conference you saw an impressive focus on security in a burgeoning security ecosystem in fact when you think of getting started in aws you really think about three things ec2 s3 and iam so i'd expect to see aws really become more prominent over time in the data set now i'll spend a minute talking about octa for the first time since we've been analyzing the security space with etr data octa has the highest net score at 58 percent it had consistently been crowdstrike with this moniker and the momentum lead the company though is dropped in this quarter survey and that's something that we're watching and by the way we're not implying that octa and crowdstrike are direct competitors they're not now as you can see nonetheless that crowdstrike z scalar and sales point sale sale point show very elevated net scores and we've plotted tenable here which is also showing some strength so you can see the respective positions of proof point and fortinet these are more mature companies they were founded in the early part of the century so you'd expect them to have somewhat lower net scores given their history and maturity and then there's cisco they've got a huge presence in the data and big in security cisco's doing really well in that space it consistently grows its security business in the double digits each quarter and it's a real feather in the cisco portfolio cap this is important because cisco's traditional hardware business continues to come under pressure splunk we talked about a lot and it's no surprise at their leadership position but i want to talk a little bit more about palo alto networks here's a company that we've talked about quite a bit in the past they are a tier one player in security they got great service csos want to work with them because they are thought leaders they're like a gold standard and have an impressive portfolio of great solutions but their traditional firewall business is coming under pressure for the reasons that we discussed earlier now palo alto has expanded its portfolio into the cloud and with prisma the company's suite of security services it will maintain a leadership position in our view but palo alto networks as we've discussed had some missteps with its product transition its sales execution and some of some challenges with its pricing models and it hurt their stock price but we've always said that they would work through these issues and that that was a buying opportunity the other thing about palo alto is you know they're considered the expensive choice you got to pay for that gold standard but that's what customers you know will tell us and so you're paying up for those top tier offerings but that's a sort of two-edged sword for palo alto here's an example why people often compare fortinet to palo alto and as we've shared in previous segments the valuation divergence between palo alto and fortinet where the the latter was making a smoother transition to its future and people often tell us that fortinet well you know maybe it's considered not as elite as palo alto they are a value choice their stuff just works and fortinet is a great alternative to palo alto and that has served them very well now let's take a closer look at the valuations of some of these companies we started off this segment by saying that the pandemic has affected every sector and especially cyber security so the next chart that we're showing here is the progression of key valuation metrics since earlier this year what we show are the valuations of nine of the companies in the sector since mid-february the data tracks their respective valuations their revenue multiples their growth rates in both value and revenue revenue growth is shown in the last column for the most recent quarterly report now the companies in red have yet to report the report any day now so he said i'm flying a little bit blind here and we'll have to take a look after the earnings to see how the survey data aligns with the actual results but let me make a few points here first here's the s p in nasdaq performance you see it in february in june and august pandemic recession what are you talking about you'd never know it looking at this data the nasdaq especially is up 14 said since mid february which is quite astounding next i want to come back to the discussion about palo alto and fortinet fortinet already has reported this quarter and palo alto has not but you can see based on the revenue multiples highlighted in red that the valuation divergence is starting to shrink a little bit and we'll see if that holds up after palo alto reports now the big eye popper in this chart is the valuation increases from february to august for octa crowdstrike and z scalar 52 67 and 104 percent increase respectively now you can't say we didn't warn you that these companies were all well positioned when we reported last year and in our january episode but i did say actually to be honest in the last episode that these three i thought were getting a little expensive that was a couple months ago and since then they've continued to run up so if you've been waiting for an entry point based on my advice well i'm sorry for that but look at the revenue multiples look at the expansion in the orange octa goes from 34x to 52x crowdstrike from 39x to 66x z scalar 25x to 43x i mean wow let's see what happens after these three report by this time i would have hoped that they'd taken a little breather maybe over the summer and you could have jumped in to these stocks but they just keep going up and despite the decline in net score for crowdstrike i still really like all three of these companies and feel that they're very well positioned from a product standpoint and customer feedback perspective and finally i want to mention sale point which we said last time was one to watch sale point crushed its quarter bringing in some large deals and providing forward guidance nearly a 50 percent valuation increase since february in a revenue multiple expansion from last quarter where the street last quarter wasn't really thrilled with their numbers but identity management is hot and so now is sales point from the streets perspective the last thing i'll say here is watch the growth rates expectations are very high for some of these companies and the street will cream any of them that misses now that may be your opportunity to jump in because i like these companies i think they're disruptors but as always do your research and watch out for the big whales trying to freeze the markets on these guys all right let's wrap up we've covered a lot of ground today and surf the landscape a little bit so look the trend is plain as day the move to sas is entrenched and by the way this isn't necessarily all good news for buyers cios and cfos tell me that the dark side of capex to opex is unpredictable bills but the flexibility and business value gained is outweighing the downside and every vendor in this space is transitioning into a sas and annual recurring revenue model we believe the remote work trend is here to stay organizations are re-architecting their business around work from home and we think that they're seeing some real benefits they've made investments and it's driving new modes of work and productivity they're not just going to throw away those investments why should they what just to go back to the old way it's not going to happen and if we as we've said previously look the internet it's like the new private network so you've got a question vpns and sd-wan they start to look like stop gaps and of course you know the cloud endpoint security cloud-based iam they are clearly winning in the marketplace you know we're also seeing new security regimes emerge where the cso and the secops team are not this island we we've seen even some csos falling back under the cio which used to be taboo he used to be thought of that's like the fox guarding the hen house but this idea of shared responsibility is not just between the cloud providers and the secops teams because security is a board level priority everyone in the business is becoming more aware more attuned and despite the millennials fascination with and undotted courage when it comes to tick tock i digress now the last two points are interesting i remember reading a post by john oltzek who was an esg security analyst and he predicted last year that integrated suites would win out over the buffet of point products on the market and you know generally i i agreed with that assessment but look at least in the near term and probably mid-term that doesn't seem to be happening as we we've seen these hot companies really take off the ones that we've highlighted now these companies have ambitions beyond selling products and they would bristle at me lumping them into point products their boards are going after platform plays so they're on a collision course with each other and the big guys this should be fun to watch because the big integrated companies are well funded they got great cash flow they got large customer bases and and i've said they're not going down without a fight so i would expect eventually there's going to be more of an equilibrium to what seems to be right now a bifurcated and unbalanced market today so you're going to see more m a activity expect that however at these valuations some of these companies that we've highlighted they're becoming acquisition proof as such they'd better keep innovating or they're going to be in big trouble all right that's it for today remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe i publish weekly on wikibon.com we've added in the wikibon menu bar a breaking analysis link that has all the episodes in there i also publish on siliconangle.com so check that out and please do comment on my linkedin posts don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action get in touch on twitter i'm at d vellante or email me at david.vellante at siliconangle.com this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr thanks for watching everybody be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC, and its ecosystem partners. (techno music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE, day three of our coverage of Dell Technologies World. I'm Lisa Martin joined by John Troyer, and we're excited to welcome back to theCUBE, distinguished alumni Bask Iyer, the CIO of Dell Technologies and VMware. Bask it's great to have you here. >> Thank you, thank you very much. >> So we were joking before we went on that we're right next to the therapy dog area, so always nice to have a technology conversation populated with dogs barking. >> No I like the dogs better if you want to talk about dogs or guitar, I would rather prefer that over >> Oh I could talk about that all day. So talk to us about, you are the CIO of Dell Technologies and VMware, first Dell Technologies World, 14,000 attendees >> Right. >> In person. >> Yep. >> 6,500 technology and solutions partners here, another expected 30,000+ people engaging with the livestream, the on-demand videos. Big, big focus this week. Love to get your perspective on the role of the CIO, the role that you have now, you know you a few years ago, it was truly all about technology, now it's really about your involvement in the corporate strategy. Talk to us about the vision that you're setting, with Michael Dell, with your peers in IT and other stakeholders at Dell Technologies. >> Okay. No it's a great event I love this. A lot of these are colleagues, other CIOs. So they know, they want to know really do you use it inside Dell. A lot more credibility when you talk real stories about how you use it in Dell. The first thing is when I started this career there was no such title as CIO. That itself is pretty new. We were just the geeks who kind of ran everything. And then you became head of IT. So it was very strongly technical, and then they said you needed leadership and business skills, the pendulum swung one way to all business and leadership skills and no technology, and then came back to we should need both of that. And then you have business and general management, so every year the job changes. What I'm finding though, which is good and bad, is nothing goes away. You still need to know the technology, you still need to know the business skills, soft skills, still need to be a general manager. What is now is a lot more on the strategy. So the importance of strategy though is you never talk strategy if your operations is not good. Right nobody cares. But if your operations is somewhat good, you better not talk about operations. So I tell people don't keep on saying your trains are running on time. It has to run on time, if it doesn't, if it runs recently on time, talk about strategy. So now it's an important job to do that, and your question about in a technology company, I am the customer. I'm probably one of the very few people who actually signed a purchase order within Dell Tech to buy Dell or EMC or VMware. So they're interested in the customer's perspective. So you're the internal voice of the customer. We are also using all the tech that we make, and we need to give feedback to the developers and the R&D folks. So we call it drink our own champagne, but not our own Kool-Aid, you know what I mean. >> I like that. >> So sometimes you get carried away by the marketing things that we do. The challenge though is you working with Michael Dell, you're working with Pat Gelsinger and everybody else, and thousands of engineering fellows and so on, who know IT, who've invented a lot of things in IT. So you cannot really keep up with them. You know you need to know enough to hold your own, but if you try to compete with them, that is not a good thing. So luckily for me I was a good B student, I'm comfortable with A students around me. So you have you to be comfortable that you're not the smartest one in the room, but you're still contributing. That's the change you have. It is surreal to go in front of a Pat or Michael or other people and talk about digital transformation. And they're making eye contact they want to know how, what do you mean by digital transformation? How do you do it internally? What's your plan? So every once in a while you pinch yourself and say I can't believe this is happening. But it does happen. >> So Bask, I mean digital transformation is a theme of the show, right? >> Yeah. >> Make it real. As you talk with other CIOS, do they feel like they have a seat at that table? Are they the driver, are they the implementer? You start to hear more about a Chief Digital Officer, is that, does the CIO became the CDO, are they different? Do you have any thoughts on that? >> Yeah I'm very strong on the fact there's a again if the CIO focus only on operations and cost, then people say your trains are running on time lets get somebody clever to do the innovation and digital. You don't want to leave that, that is the cream of the crop. So I think if you're a good CIO, you want to be the Chief Digital Officer for the company. You don't want to have two CFOs, one for Wall Street and one for doing the real work. You don't want to have two salesperson, one for putting the numbers and one actually selling. So you need to have one technology person. Some companies may be so complex that you may consider that. I started as a chief Digital Officer in Hunnewell, ended up as the CIO for Hunnewell for example, but you need to have people who are very collaborative, those two have to work very closely together. It's very difficult to find one person who's collaborative and nonpolitical to be a leader of an IT organization. To find two and working as a team is complicated. So that's what I want. So I'm not a big supporter of that although I could see why it would happen, if you will. Okay. >> Lisa: So drinking your own champagne I like that by the way, you are in this role, it's interesting that you say you still kind of feel like you're pinching yourself when you're talking to a Michael Dell or a Pat Gelsinger, but you're up there having to implement digital transformation within Dell Technologies and all the companies underneath. >> Sure. >> That's a pretty big seat at the table. How are you sort of embodying the theme of this event and making digital transformation real for Dell Technologies? >> So I go very practical and I give, yesterday I talked to my fellow CIOs on the mistakes I've made. Right I came as the VMware CIO, we've already done this journey in a couple of years ahead of time. So wouldn't it be a cut and paste? Given the hybrid cloud, given the best end user environment possible and you're done. You already have that start. But I made the same mistake every CIO makes, we preach this but we don't follow it. It's not just the technology, it's people, process, culture, and technology, and I jumped on the technology, and I'm kicking myself to say, first three months didn't make a whole lot of progress. I was just yelling like a madman to say why is it not getting done. And then you have to go back into I have to hire the right people. So lets talk a few things. I made changes to the leadership team. Certain people were not comfortable in the pace of change. We did it respectfully but we had to have people who can actually lead the change. That was first. Then we called something about putting T back in IT. Which a long time in IT what we have done is we've outsourced, off shored, treated IT as a commodity and then we have program managers and leaders. Every magazine asked us to do that. Well, guess what we've been wrong. I think I've been wrong, doing that. You do need technologies right now. You cannot do digital transformation without understanding the technology. So we have to staff internally, we have to get good folks. Still manage the cost right, that doesn't go away, but you have to do the right thing. So IT, first get the right people, the process for it, what it dawned on me is we are talking about Agile and DevOps and continuous development. Those are all IT, geeky terMs. Those are not business terms. Those are not business terms even in Dell technology. Because there are manufacturing folks and HR folks and finance folks and so on. So I looked at fast experience of somebody like Hunnewell or GE. Remember they adopted Lean Six Sigma some kind of process to transform their company. And even me who's an IT geek had to go through a green-belt certification or a black-belt certification. And I revolted I said why would I do that, I'm an engineer why would I go through this stupid course, but it was required otherwise you don't get promoted. So now you need a prescriptive process to change the culture. So digital transformation needed that. Luckily for us we took the pivotal way, which we have within our company. We made it the Dell Digital way, since you still have to write it in your own language if you will. That is the process we use, we train our folks and our customers, our clients as I call them, customer is the person who buys the products from us, client is all the colleagues. So finance folks have to know what Dell Digital way is. You cannot do requirements the old way, and throw it over the wall and expect me to develop. You have to get into the room, With me and draw it on the wall and be able to design it together. So that's been a good change. And the culture changes with us because initially people are thinking, this guy's coming from Silicon Valley, he's not going to stay here, he's going to do all these things, he's going to get either fired or leave. So people try to run out the clock a little bit. So it takes a little bit of time to work on the culture and say innovation is not only demanded from you, but you have to keep the trains running on time. You have to chew gum and walk at the same time. So that's the process we go through. >> I love what you just described Bask because both in terms of culture and in technology, that actually makes for an interesting set of IT careers, right. That turns IT into a very interesting career again. >> Right. >> Many of my colleagues are IT pros, do you have any advice for somebody who is maybe in the start, the middle of their career, maybe specializing in something but they have I think this dream at the end of the tunnel, maybe the CIO is where they want to be. What do you see, how do I prep to be a CIO now, to be a CIO in say ten years? >> I'd tell him are you crazy? (laughs) Do you know what you're getting into? But here's what there's some truth to it. Getting a job is really easy I think. Doing the job is very difficult. So I tell 'em, get prepared for the job. Also, you should have some passion for technology. If you're a sportswriter, I mean I'm into sports, so you can give me all the magazines you want, I can see all the videos, I can watch 'em all day long. I can retire just watching sports all day long, or playing occasionally. You have to have the passion in technology because things keep coming at you. So we think Blockchain is cool by the time it get off the seed it's going to be something else. You have to be interested and passionate to keep up with that, right. So first thing is can you keep up with the change. Are you actually interested in it? Michael Dell sends you a text in the middle of the night, I don't think he expects me to react but I do. Because he's reading something and he's hearing something from the customers. You need to be interested in learning. So I said you have to be a lifelong learner, passionate on technology, and also learn the ropes because I always felt when I was younger I wasn't given the opportunities at the right time. I felt like am I going to die before I become a vice president or a CIO or whatever? It felt to me that it took a little longer than I wanted it to but thank god because once you got the job you were prepared for it. So that's one of the things I tell people is get prepared. Get into learning. Also the job changes all the time so I can't really write a book on it. You have to almost be like a chameleon in a sense. You got to learn so the last few years was technology, then it was business, then it was soft skills, transformation, ERP implementation, now it's business strategy, it's not going to stop. Technology is going to keep coming as a wave. So be ready for adapting and adopting to the changes if you will, right. >> I'm glad that you brought up people because it's not just systems and processes, none of this comes to fruition, companies don't transform IT, transform digitally, deliver more differentiated products without the people. We had some folks on earlier I think day one with Dell EMC Education Services, we've talked to the Channel folks about the things that they're enabling and one of the things that I think is really important that you brought up is all the things you said, I made all these mistakes. But those are opportunities not just for you to learn and grow, but also for you to share with the people that look at you and say I want to be Bask Iyer on stage. >> Yeah. >> You know in a few years because it's really all about being brave enough to say you know what I didn't know this, or I made a mistake, actually maybe it wasn't a mistake, maybe if I didn't go this path I wouldn't have learned and gotten more solidification under my feet to be able to be up there and get a text from a Michael Dell [Bask] That's right. >> In the middle of the night. >> That's right. >> So your advice to the next generation I think is key but I also really respect identification of hey all the things that maybe I did them wrong and encouraging more people as they want to grow their careers to not be afraid to go I don't know this. This this is an opportunity for me to learn. >> Yeah you cannot be the I wish I was the smartest room in Dell Technology, you know that is not possible. You're not even talking about the senior managers you have to talk to the fellows and engineers we have who I just nod and pretend like I know what they're talking about, it's just amazing. So you need a little bit of the humility I think to learn what you want to learn. But have the confidence right. You cannot have nothing and come and work here because I always tell people working in a tech company versus being a CIO of a regular company and I've done both, it's like getting to a batting cage and all of a sudden the balls are coming at 150 miles an hour. You better be prepared to face it. So you have to figure out can I face a ball at 40 miles or 60 miles or 150 miles. So you need to prepare yourself to get there. But having said that though, we are all learning. We are all growing, we all make mistakes. In fact I learn a lot from my millennial kids. They seem to know more about this than I do. I learn a lot and I do something called reverse mentoring in Silicon Valley, which is all the people from LinkedIn, Google, they want to learn from me because they think I'm the greatest CIO whatever, and I want to learn from them. I ended up at the end of the session learning a lot more from them and I feel actually guilty that the mentoring session has gone the other way but, that's what keeps it's interesting is the minute you feel like you know everything or you've done it, very risky in a technology profession, especially in a CIO profession. >> Lisa: So wrapping up the show here, talk to us about some of the things, and in the spirit of learning, what are some of the things that you've heard from customers about, whether it's the new product announcements or new partnerships or just the new areas that Dell Technologies is going in, what has the feedback been like? >> People love the fact that they saw Pat onstage and talk about VMware and Dell working together. People want to see the independence of VMware as well, and they want Dell and VMware working together. They want to see both. They want to make sure that there is the fierce independence that VMware is known for, and the fact that they're working together. That was good to hear because if you do one or the other people get freaked out. The fact that the best private cloud in the world is getting hooked up to the best public clouds in the world, that's a good message for people because they don't want to be locked into a cloud discussion or other kind of stuff. So you want to have the freedom to do that. A lot of people are now expressing interest in IOT and other kind of places and why the edge is important again. What tends to happen in my profession is we talk about IOT last year, this year we talk about AI and ML, guarantee next year's going to be something else. The technology sweet spot takes three, four, five years to hit. So if you just chasing the next wave because you want to be cool and fun you're missing out on opportunity to leverage this. So lot of buzz around the whole world is going to be wired, everything's going to have sensors, the amount of data that comes in and how to manage it and secure it. A lot of CIOs are saying we should get on top of that. Before it's done to us. Lot of buzz on that. I freaked out. I, like any other geek, went to the show to see the cool techs that everybody has. I went to the Dell booths to see the latest laptops because sometimes they don't show us the latest things >> (laughs) >> they keep it for the show. And then Michael Dell is in the booth. He didn't think it was funny but I thought Michael Dell in a Dell booth in Dell World, that's like you want to go buy a Mustang and you find Mr. Ford in the dealership. So I thought it was hilarious and I was shocked and he was just amused to say why do you think that is so funny. But it's nice to have a founder who's like an icon in the industry. Is he listening? Let me stop. (laughs) >> (laughs) He is a big fan of theCUBE. >> Thank you, then I'm not going to say anything nice about him. >> So, last question You talked about last year was IOT, now it's AI and ML, next year's going to be something else, are the people that are chasing those trends the ones that need the therapy dogs the most? (laughs) >> Yeah I think so because you know we have no time for anything these days, we are chasing the next shiny object. When AI and IOT come together, this is going to be fascinating for me. I worked on industry controls and so on, but if every wall could talk, and every object could talk to you what it would be telling you? And humans cannot comprehend it, because the wall is going to tell you so many things. So and so walked by, so and so sat here, whatever. You need artificial intelligence to filter it and say, you know Eric Clapton was here because that's the only thing maybe you want to know. I don't want to know about anything else. That requires AI to process and say this is what Bask would be interested in. And the rest of it doesn't really matter. So this combination I think is very powerful and I'm pretty excited about what if everything, what if dogs could talk, what if walls could talk, What if thermostat could talk >> Oh I'm waiting for that. >> So it's going to happen in our lifetime, pretty soon. >> Lisa: Well Bask thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing your insights of how you're leading the charge as the CIO, right up there with Michael Dell, Pat Gelsinger and all those big cheeses, but also how you're bringing the technology to the people and really like you said drinking the champagne. >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> We want to thank you for your time. >> Thank you for the time. >> And we thank you for watching theCUBE, we are live day three of Dell Technologies World, right next to the dog therapy center if you need a little break, come say hi and stop by and see some dogs. I'm Lisa Martin for John Troyer, stick around we'll be right back after a short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Madrid Spain, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover Madrid 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> We're back. This is theCUBE that you're watching, the leader in live tech coverage. We're at HPE Discover 2017 in Madrid. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host for the week, Peter Burris. Peter, it's been great working with you this week. >> Indeed, it's been great. >> We're winding down, and we're really excited to have Ric Lewis, >> Great ideas. >> Senior Vice President and General Manger of the Software Defined and Cloud Group. Many time CUBE guest with HPE, and Jeff Wike of Dreamworks. CTO, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> Great to see you. You're welcome. Been a good week? >> It's been a fantastic week. >> Things are coming into focus? >> They are. >> You killed it on the keynote, how are you feeling? >> Feeling really good, feeling really good. I mean, the momentum in the software defined and cloud arena is just fantastic. You know, there were times when I used to visit with you guys and we were only talking about what's coming in the future. Now we're talking a lot about what we have, what customers are buying, where we have momentum. And still introducing new things, so it's just a whole lot of fun. >> Jeff, Senior Vice President, CTO, can we talk a little bit about your role? What the scope is? >> Sure. Sure, so Dreamworks Animation, you may have heard of it. >> Yeah. We do we make animated films. >> Good friend Kate Swanberg's been on a number of times. >> Kate's, love her. We make animated films, we do a lot more than that. We're a digital content creation company. So we, we're the largest TV animation studio in the world. We're doing theme park ride work, cause we've got, we're now under NBC Universal. So we're doing a lot of projects, it's a very busy time for us. >> So, Synergy, we talked about Synergy a lot, there's nothing >> Yeah. >> like Synergy we've heard. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Fluid pools of infrastructure. >> Yeah, it just gets better. >> Wait and see and so, what can you tell us? How's the momentum? >> Yeah let's talk a little bit about that. So the momentum on Synergy is fantastic. We started shipping in volume at this conference last year, basically December of last year. And the response has been fantastic. We've looked at Momentum for new infrastructure plays. You know if you look back at our history, whether it was the C7000 or whether it was UCS from Cisco or whether it was VCEs built on UCS, Nutanix. If you kind of look at the first year of a new infrastructure play, Synergy looks like it's the fastest growing thing ever. It's just fantastic, really growing for us. We have over 1100 customers on Synergy now. You know, and that's in 11 months of shipping. And the business, it just continues to grow quarter by quarter. Just really thrilled with the progress there, so happy. >> And you guys are customers? >> We're big customers, if we're not the biggest customer, we're certainly the biggest fan. >> One of the biggest, one of the biggest customers, maybe the biggest fan. >> Certainly the biggest fan. >> Okay so Jeff, tell us, take us back to sort of pre-Synergy, you know, what was it like before and after and what has it done for your business in particular? >> Well one of the things that that we face going forward is we developed, in our infrastructure, and inner data center, we do a lot of rendering to make a movie. That's our largest high performance compute. You know, 80 million render hours, CPU hours to make one of these films. And we're making a lot of them at the same time. We really defined that work flow, and how we optimize the data center hardware to be able to go through that work flow and be able to be as efficient as possible. The issue came with we have a lot of other projects that are coming in, and since we are now under NBC Universal, there's a lot of other work that's happening there. And also, different types of media that's coming, you know, around the corner. And we want to be able to prepare for that. What we would have done traditionally would be to buy to peak, you know because it is rather cyclical, and that's what we would do that on prem, peak. But if we had a special project, we might buy or segment a portion of that and say, you know, this is for this purpose. This is for that purpose, but that's very inefficient. So with Synergy, the beauty of it is we can purchase you know that hardware, but then if we want to be able to use it for another project, we can do that. And we can do that very very quickly. >> You said you repurpose that across your application portfolio. Or your project portfolio. >> Yeah. Yeah, it gives us, I like to say it future proofs us. Because now no matter what the parent company or our own creative ambitions are, we can handle that. We can't say no, well we never say no. We usually say not right now, or wait a couple of weeks or a couple of months to be able to provision that. And now it's, it's instantaneous. >> And I know what Ric's answer would be to this, but I want to hear from the customers. Is this really different than other products that you've experienced. >> It's totally unique. We haven't experienced it before. And I'll give you, I'll give you a little example. We just got our order. We got about 200 servers of Synergy that arrived a couple of months ago. And within seven working days, we were using it in production. And I just want to say, we took, I don't know if I told you this story, but we were able to provision all of that from the time we mounted in the racks within five hours, which is incredible. It would have taken us easily three weeks before. In fact, it took us longer to take it out of the cartons than it did to provision. >> Well, so let me see if I... You're talking about maybe 200 servers. You're probably talking about 8,000 individual tasks configured. To get it done in five hours you probably perform what, 40, 50 tasks? Administrative steps? >> By the way, first time doing it. And our engineers were saying, we could've used more parallelism. We could've done it faster. You know, it's almost a challenge to see just how easy you can do this. >> But I got that right? Is it really like 98 percent reduction in the administrative tasks? >> Absolutely. >> Really? >> That's incredible. >> It is. >> Huh, alright. >> That's before you start flexing work, flexing resources against different workloads and dynamically reprovisioning. This is just provisioning the first time. But it, if you think about it, if you're gonna do it dynamically, it can't take forever, so you've gotta make it, the first time it's gotta be super fast. >> Okay. >> So, I have to admit I'm a little stunned, I didn't know that. So, and as you said, the whole point is that you can reprovision >> Yes. >> Over and over. Which means that the... There's something in economics and technology that's known as an asset specificity. And an asset has high specificity when you buy it and can appropriate it to a specific purpose. And about the only thing in tech that makes something an asset specificity is the administrative tasks of changing it to prepare it to do something else. And you just told me that I can remove nearly 100% of the transaction costs associated with taking an asset from this and applying it to that. >> If you're gonna destroy silos in the data center, that's what you have to do. >> But that's... >> Right, so silo is this asset specificity. If you can repurpose it immediately. >> So I'm excited, that's my second question. How did your people respond to this? Because I talked to a lot of other CIOs that say one of the biggest challenges I'm having, or CTOs, one of the biggest challenges I'm having is I'm able to converge hardware, I'm able to converge to some software, I'm able to converge Administrative tasks, but my people don't like converge. What, they don't like to converge. How are you walking your people through some of these changes to liberate these opportunities? >> Well we've been moving toward, from more traditional, we'll call it IT for now. From traditional IT to dev ops environment and, you know what, it's change. So we've been bringing people along in that you know, to, and some people adapt to it. They say wow this is gonna be great for my career. And engineers want to always use the new stuff, so from that aspect of I know how I work, and I know what I do, to here's a better way of doing it to be more automated, it's been a good experience for people. And you know what, the chance of human error in configuring things... If I look to my long history at Dreamworks, 21 years, I look at any down time we've had or any problems, 90% of that has been from misconfiguration. And it's usually from somebody fat fingering, you know a parameter in the set up of the servers. And now, that's virtually eliminated. >> Did you have to go through some kind of organizational, internal sort of discussion, transformation, whatever you want to call it to actually get to the point where you could buy this way, buy a sort of single SKU of Synergy? Because you maybe previously you were buying bespoke, kind of roll your own components. A little server here, maybe some storage over there, maybe some networking here. Now maybe it's all HP that made it simpler, but you probably had specialist in each of those areas, did you not? >> We did. >> How did you deal with that organizational friction? >> You know, that was an issue as and by the way, there's so many, there's so much technology that's being developed some of it open source, some of it in this partner ecosystem that you have. And trying to stay abreast of that has been a real challenge. And one of the things that we always dreamed of is wouldn't it be nice if there was one way that you could control that. The single pane of glass, which is you know, to be able to have an API layer that everybody could hook in to. I think you've got a company like Hewlett Packard Enterprise that has that dominance in the market place to be able to dictate, I'm using that word. >> Yeah. >> Maybe dictate isn't the right word. >> Offer. >> Offer. (group laughing) >> That's the word we use. Enable. >> Enable, you know those APIs. And all of those are being developed you know almost in parallel. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So this stuff is really coming in. Now we have our own... We're a snowflake like everybody else is to your point. And what we've done is we brought in the Pointnext team to go in and write those northbound APIs so that we can hook in to one view. To be able to manage all of our legacy, I'll call it legacy, our previous infrastructure along with you know, the new tech that we're buying. So that it makes it easy to manage. >> They made it match the composable API that we put into Synergy. It's natively integrated. All the ecosystem partners are adapting to it. And they said we'll just use that as our standard to even manage our legacy infrastructure. Plus, since Oneview runs on legacy infrastructure, all of the HPE stuff, it just adapts like that. So it's been a very good, good project. >> So you've got a lot of experience with this now. Can you share with, maybe you can quantify it, maybe you can't, but even subjectively the developer impact or the animator impact, the business impact to Dreamworks? >> So the biggest impact... Well I have three things that are my, actually I got this from Meg Whitman, I had a list of 12 objectives for the studio for technology and she said at one of the CIO summits, you've gotta have three. So I said okay, I've gotta pare it down to three. And one of those is provide the technology, the software and infrastructure to meet the creative needs. The second one was innovate for competitive advantage. And the third one was drive efficiency into operations. And if you look at what Synergy provides, it hits every single one of those. So we've actually, you know, over the past year or two, we've actually reduced the number of people that we have maintaining our infrastructure, which is amazing if you consider the fact that this year we doubled the size of our infrastructure. In what other business, in what other area can you actually reduce the amount of people that are maintaining something while you're doubling the amount that you're maintaining. That never happens. And I think it's because of this software defined infrastructure and the fact that you can write these recipes or profiles, whatever you want to call them, personalities. >> Yep, yep, yep. >> To be able to... And test them and harden them. And by the way, that reminds me, one of the things I really like about this is our ability to do proofs of concept, to try different workflows and all that without having to take away resources from the main thing that we're doing which is the artistic community. So we can actually say, you know what? We're gonna go in, reimage these servers. We're gonna do that at night to run this test, in the morning they're back, they're back in the pool. And that's an amazing thing. >> That's dynamic provisioning. No one else can dynamically provision. >> Yeah. >> All the converge systems, all the hyper converge, they're provisioned a certain way. They run VMs a certain way. They stay that way for their lifetime. This stuff dynamically reprovisions, and you guys, you're not even talking about kind of doing containers with VMs and containers with your bare metal, you can dynamically reprovision across that as well. >> Yeah, what he said. (laughter) >> Listen, we're just getting started so just relax, okay. These guys are telling me we gotta wrap. We're not gonna wrap. >> No. >> We haven't even gotten to One Sphere yet. >> We have other topics. Exactly. >> So let's get to One Sphere. >> Yeah. >> Yeah I want to talk about One Sphere. But I do want to say. >> Go ahead, last thought. >> One more thing, so you talked about artists, but the other part of it is for developers so one of the things we don't want the engineering teams to be a hindrance to the developers. Because they want to be able to move quickly, they want to be able to be assessing, and I think one of the things that's not just an impact on our artists, to be able to do these new projects, but also it makes our developers more efficient. They don't have to wait. >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. Now let's talk multi cloud. >> Yep. >> A lot of complexity, the more things get simple, the more complex they seem to get. So, One Sphere. You guys announced yesterday. >> Yeah, so. A core pillar of the HP strategy, make hybrid IT simple, right. And you can see from this conversation we're making hybrid IT simple on-prem. Not only do we have Synergy, but we have a fantastic offering in our Simplivity space. And that platform's over 2,000 customers and growing like crazy as well. But after we did that, we said look, we've got fantastically simple virtualization clusters in Simplivity, we've got great dynamic reprovisioning and composable infrastructure, but customer are not... That's part of their hybrid IT problem, that's the on-prem part. They're also wrestling with I've got multiple cloud instances, I need to get insights into where I'm spending my money, where workloads are deployed and all that. So we started this program, HPE OneSphere. We've had it going for almost three years. We had a small team on it early on. We ramped up the staffing a couple years ago. And what it really does, it's pretty simple. It allows you to build clouds, deploy apps, and gain insights extremely fast. So it's designed for IT ops to be able to build and deploy a private cloud as fast as they can and assemble that with their public cloud assets. And provide one place to look at all of those. For developers, it provides a common multi-tenant environment that has all the services and tools they need to be able to deploy an application whether it's on-prem or off-prem, and you can choose, you can build applications that have some of both inside that developer environment. And then for the business, it shows insights into where's the money being spent? Where are those workloads running and what's it costing me? So, think of it almost as composable at that next level where it's not just resources within chassis, now it's resources across the hybrid IT estate. It actually is public cloud assets from any of the public clouds, whether it's AWS, Azure, Google, Cloud28+, as well as your private cloud assets. And it automates the life cycle stuff that we were just talking about through this application into OneView. It's a SaaS environment, so actually OneSphere is software as a service. It lives in the cloud, it's a subscription that our customers buy, and it does all of this capability to simplify their hybrid environment and taps into the capabilities we just talked about. It's fantastic, nobody has anything like it. >> Okay well we've heard that before, but now... >> Exactly. >> You're putting your money where your mouth is. >> So I was right on that one. >> Okay but it's early days for OneSphere. >> Okay. >> And your private cloud is what we call a true private cloud. >> Which you said on stage yesterday. >> I did that's exactly right. >> It's evidence by your ability to reduce staff to manage infrastructure. >> It's a con experience wherever the data requires is how we put it. >> Yes, yes. We want the simplicity of management and the availability of apps that you get in public cloud in the private cloud. >> And the pricing. Yeah? >> Well, yeah, well... No, cause it's actually more expensive to go public cloud. >> I mean pricing models. >> Oh yes, yeah. >> The consumption is what you're basically talking about, yeah. >> And so you, Jeff you guys are OneSphere or OneSphere betas? >> Yeah, you bet. >> So what were you trying to learn? What were you kicking the tires on, testing? Where'd you focus? >> We, you know, if we look at the future, we're not gonna be on-prem forever, and I certainly don't want to be on-prem forever, I want to take advantage of flexing to public cloud, but again, for our films, you know, we want to be able to provide the producers of those movies, what is that gonna cost me? What is that, how can I tell you what that costs? And where can we move as we start to do more different types of projects? Which ones should go to the public cloud? Which ones should stay inside? And be able to understand that. The other thing that made us nervous about public cloud. Was what they call the zombie cloud instances, you know where you went in, you provision something and then you forget about, and you, but you're paying, you know. And that's, a lot of money is made. >> Kind of like app subscriptions. >> Group: Yes, exactly. >> I'm still paying for that? (laughter) >> Exactly but this gives you all of that... >> 4,000 dollars a month. >> A little different right. >> Or 15,000 a month. (laughter) >> Yeah, that's for sure. That visibility is something that all... We talk about it, CFOs hate this thing... Some of the consumption model is shifting from cap ex to op ex, but CFOs hate surprise op ex. And that's where they're actually surprised by oh my gosh look at that bill. Well this provides visibility into all of those assets, whether they're on-prem or off-prem and what they're costing you. And it's always up to date, and it's always consistent across your entire farm, so you can choose and say that's costing me too much, I want to move those apps over here. And immediately do it. And for a lot of our customers, they're over-provisioned so they have spare capacity on-prem they're not taking advantage of. Why not use some of that and it's instantly provisioned. >> And that's where you initially, anyway, see the business value of OneSphere. >> Well, look, it's OneSphere to rule them all. And I believe whether it's private, public, you know we really want to have what is my total resource availability? So in the future, we never say no anymore. Really, we can tell them how much, but you don't have to say no. And the other thing is we can do this stuff instantly. So, we don't even say when, we just go now here's what you have to pay if you want to do it, we can provide those options. It's a new world. >> I love the demo of, I don't know if you guys saw it, there's a demo with Pong, you know, it's the IT guy of the past. >> Yeah the guy saying no. >> And then they made it vertical. It's the IT guy of the future. So, alright my last question. What cool movies can we anticipate? What's coming? >> Well you know what, How to drain... How to Train, how to drain your tragon I was gonna say. (laughter) How to Train Your Dragon 3 is our next film out and it's gonna be unbelievable. >> I'll bet. >> So my last question. Am I gonna have to continue to sit through 15 minutes of IT credits at the end of future Dreamworks movies as a consequence of Synergy? >> There's less, cause there's less resources required to manage your Synergy hardware. So it's less people. >> I know you don't sit through the credits. (laughter) >> I do. (laughter) I love credits. Alright guys, thanks very much for coming on. >> Thank you. >> It's been a great pleasure. >> Thank you, always fun. >> Alright keep it there everybody, Peter and I will be back to wrap up HPE Discover 2017 from Madrid, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)