(bright upbeat music) >> Well, hello everybody. John Walls is here on "the CUBE". Great to have you with us as we continue our series here at the AWS Executive Summit sponsored by Accenture. And today we're talking about public service and not just a little slice of public service but probably the largest public sector offering in the UK and for with us or with us. Now to talk about that is Lianne Anderton, who is in with the Intelligent Automation Garage Delivery Lead at the UK Department of Work and Pension. Lianne, good to see you today. Thanks for joining us here on "the CUBE". >> Hi, thanks for having me. >> And also with this us is Amar Narayan, who is a Manager Director at Accenture the AWS Business Group for the Lead in Health and Public Sector, also UK and Ireland. And Amar, I think, you and Lianne, are in the same location, Newcastle, I believe in the UK, is that right? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yep, yeah, we're, here in the northeast of UK. >> Well, thank you for being with us. I appreciate the time. Lianne, let's talk about what you do, the Department of Work and Pension, the famous DWP in England. You have influence or certainly touchpoints with a huge amount of the British population. In what respects, what are you doing for the working class in England and what does technology have to do with all that? >> Sure, so for the Department for Work and Pensions I think the pensions bit is fairly self explanatory so anybody who is over state pension age within the UK. for the work part of that we also deal with people of working age. So, these are people who are either in employment and need additional help through various benefits we offer in the UK. Those people who are out of work. And we also deal with health related benefits as well. And we are currently serving over 20 million claimants every year at this moment in time. So, we're aware of a huge part of the UK government. >> All right, so say that number again. How many? >> 20 million claimants every year. >> Million with an M, right? >> Yeah. >> So, and that's individuals. And so how many transactions, if you will, how many do you think you process in a month? How, much traffic basically, are you seeing? >> An extraordinary amount? I'm not even, I don't think I even know that number. (Lianne laughing) >> Mind blowing, right? So, it's- >> A huge, huge amount. >> Mind blowing. >> Yeah, so, basically the we kind of keep the country going. So, you know, if the department for Work and Pensions kind of didn't exist anymore then actually it would cause an infinite number of problems in society. We, kind of help and support the people who need that. And, yeah, so we play a really vital role in kind of you know, social care and kind of public service. >> So, what was your journey to Accenture then? What, eventually led you to them? What problem were you having and how have you collaborated to solve that? >> So, in terms of how we work with Accenture. So, we had in around 2017 DWP was looking at a projected number of transactions growing by about 210 million which was, you know, an extraordinary amount. And, you know, I think as we've kind of covered everything that we do is on a massive scale. So, we as DWP as an organization we had absolutely no idea how we were going to be able to handle such a massive increase in the transactions. And actually, you know, after kind of various kind of paths and ideas of how we were going to do that, automation, was actually the answer. But the problem that we have with that is that we have, like many governments around the world, we have really older legacy systems. So, each of these benefits that we deal with are on legacy systems. So, whatever we were going to develop had to, you know, connect to all of these, it had to ingest and then process all of these pieces of data some of which, you know, given the fact that a lot of these systems have a lot of manual input you have data issues there that you have to solve and whatever we did, you know, as we've talked about in terms of volumes has to scale instantly as well. So, it has to be able to scale up and down to meet demand and, you know, and that down scaling is also equally as important. So yeah, you've got to be able to scale up to meet the volumes but also you've got to be able to downscale when when it's not needed. But we had nothing that was like that kind of helped us to meet that demand. So, we built our own automation platform, The Intelligent Automation Garage and we did that with Accenture. >> So Amar, I'd like you to chime in here then. So, you're looking at this client who has this massive footprint and obviously vital services, right? So, that's paramount that you have to keep that in mind and the legacy systems that Lianne was just talking about. So, now you're trying to get 'em in the next gen but also respecting that they have a serious investment already in a lot of technology. How do you approach that kind of problem solving, those dynamics and how in this case did you get them to automation as the solution? >> Sure, so I think I think one of the interesting things, yeah as Lianne has sort of described it, right? It's effectively like, you know the department has to have be running all of the time, right? They can't, you know, they can't effectively stop and then do a bunch of IT transformation, you know it's effectively like, you know, changing the wheels of a jumbo jet whilst it's taking off, right? And you've got to do all of that all in one go. But what I think we really, really liked about the situation that we were in and the client relationship we had was that we knew we had to it wasn't just a technology play, we couldn't just go, "All right, let's just put some new technology in." What we also needed to do was really sort of create a culture, an innovation culture, and go, "Well how do we think about the problems that we currently have and how do we think about solving them differently and in collaboration, right?" So, not just the, "Let's just outsource a bunch of technology for to, you know, to Accenture and build a bunch of stuff." So, we very carefully thought about, well actually, the unique situation that they're in the demands that the citizens have on the services that the department provide. And as Lianne mentioned, that technology didn't exist. So, we fundamentally looked at this in a different way. So, we worked really closely with the department. We said, Look, actually what we ultimately need is the equivalent of a virtual workforce. Something where if you already, you know all of a sudden had a hundred thousand pension claims that needed to be processed in a week that you could click your fingers and, you know in a physical world you'd have another building all of your kits, a whole bunch of trained staff that would be able to process that work. And if in the following week you didn't need that you no longer needed that building that stuff or the machinery. And we wanted to replicate that in the virtual world. So, we started designing a platform we utilized and focused on using AWS because it had the scalability. And we thought about, how were we going to connect something as new as AWS to all of these legacy systems. How are we going to make that work in the modern world? How are we going to integrate it? How we going to make sure it's secure? And frankly, we're really honest with the client we said, "Look, this hasn't been done before. Like, nowhere in Accenture has done it. No one's done it in the industry. We've got some smart people, I think we can do it." And, we've prototyped and we've built and we were able to prove that we can do that. And that in itself just created an environment of solving tricky problems and being innovative but most importantly not doing sort of proof of concepts that didn't go anywhere but building something that actually scaled. And I think that was really the real the start of what was has been the Garage. >> So, And Lianne, you mentioned this and you just referred to it Amar, about The Garage, right? The Intelligent Automation Garage. What exactly is it? I mean, we talked about it, what the needs are all this and that, but Lianne, I'll let you jump in first and Amar, certainly compliment her remarks, but what is the IAG, what's the... >> So, you know, I think exactly what kind of Amar, has said from a from a kind of a development point of view I think it started off, you know, really, really small. And the idea is that this is DWP, intelligent automation center of excellence. So, you know, it's aims are that, you know, it makes sure that it scopes out kind of the problems that DWP are are facing properly. So, we really understand what the crux of the problem is. In large organizations It's very easy, I think to think you understand what the problem is where actually, you know, it is really about kind of delving into what that is. And actually we have a dedicated design team that really kind of get under the bonnet of what these issues really are. It then kind of architects what the solutions need to look like using as Amar said, all the exciting new technology that we kind of have available to us. That kind of sensible solution as to what that should look like. We then build that sensible solution and we then, you know as part of that, we make sure that it scales to demand. So, something that might start out with, I dunno, you know a few hundred claimants or kind of cases going through it can quite often, you know, once that's that's been successful scale really, really quickly because as you know, we have 20 million claimants that come through us every year. So, these types of things can grow and expand but also a really key function of what we do is that we have a fully supported in-house service as well. So, all of those automations that we build are then maintained and you know, so any changes that kind of needed to be need to be made to them, we have all that and we have that control and we have our kind of arms wrapped around all of those. But also what that allows us to do is it allows us to be very kind of self-sufficient in making sure that we are as sufficient, sorry, as efficient as possible. And what I mean by that is looking at, you know as new technologies come around and they can allow us to do things more effectively. So, it allows us to kind of almost do that that kind of continuous improvement ourselves. So, that's a huge part of what we do as well. And you know, I think from a size point of view I said this started off really small as in the idea was this was a kind of center of excellence but actually as automation, I think as Amar alluded to is kind of really started to embed in DWP culture what we've started to kind of see is the a massive expansion in the types of of work that people want us to do and the volume of work that we are doing. So, I think we're currently running at around around a hundred people at the moment and I think, you know we started off with a scrum, a couple of scrum teams under Amar, so yeah, it's really grown. But you know, I think this is here to stay within DWP. >> Yeah, well when we talk about automation, you know virtual and robotics and all this I like to kind of keep the human element in mind here too. And Amar, maybe you can touch on that in certain terms of the human factors in this equation. 'Cause people think about, you know, robots it means different things to different people. In your mind, how does automation intersect with the human element here and in terms of the kinds of things Lianne wants to do down the road, you know, is a road for people basically? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. I think fundamentally what the department does is support people and therefore the solutions that we designed and built had to factor that in mind right? We were trying to best support and provide the best service we possibly can. And not only do we need to support the citizens that it supports. The department itself is a big organization, right? We're up to, we're talking between sort of 70 and 80,000 employees. So, how do we embed automation but also make the lives of the, of the DWP agents better as well? And that's what we thought about. So we said, "Well look, we think we can design solutions that do both." So, a lot of our automations go through a design process and we work closely with our operations team and we go, well actually, you know in processing and benefit, there are some aspects of that processing that benefit that are copy and paste, right? It doesn't require much thought around it, but it just requires capturing data and there's elements of that solution or that process that requires actual thought and understanding and really empathy around going, "Well how do I best support this citizen?" And what we tended to do is we took all of the things that were sort of laborious and took a lot of time and would slow down the overall process and we automated those and then we really focused on making sure that the elements that required the human, the human input was made as user friendly and centric as we possibly could. So, if there's a really complex case that needs to be processed, we were able to present the information in a really digestible and understandable way for the agents so that they could make a informed and sensible decision based around a citizen. And what that enabled us to do is essentially meet the demands of the volumes and the peaks that came in but also maintain the quality and if not improve, you know the accuracy of the claims processing that we had. >> So, how do you know, and maybe Lianne, you can address this. How do you know that it's successful on both sides of that equation? And, 'cause Amar raised a very good point. You have 70 to 80,000 employees that you're trying to make their work life much more efficient, much simpler and hopefully make them better at their jobs at the end of the day. But you're also taking care of 20 million clients on the, your side too. So, how do you, what's your measurement for success and what kind of like raw feedback do you get that says, "Okay, this has worked for both of our client bases, both our citizens and our employees?" >> Yeah, so we can look at this both from a a quantitative and a qualitative point of view as well. So, I think from a let take the kind figures first. So we are really hot on making sure that whatever automations we put in place we are there to measure how that automation is working what it's kind of doing and the impact that it's having from an operational point of view. So I think, you know, I think the proof of the fact that the Intelligent Automation Garage is working is that, you know, in the, in its lifetime, we've processed over 20 million items and cases so far. We have 65 scaled and transitioned automations and we've saved over 2 million operational hours. I was going to say that again that's 2 million operational hours. And what that allows us to do as an organization those 2 million hours have allowed us to rather than people as Amar, said, cutting and pasting and doing work that that is essentially very time consuming and repetitive. That 2 million hours we've been able to use on actual decision making. So, the stuff that you need as sentient human being to make judgment calls on and you know and kind of make those decisions that's what it's allowed us as an organization to do. And then I think from a quality point of view I think the feedback that we have from our operational teams is, you know is equally as as great. So, we have that kind of feedback from, you know all the way up from to the director level about, you know how it's kind of like I said that freeing up that time but actually making the operational, you know they don't have an easy job and it's making that an awful lot easier on a day to day basis. It has a real day to day impact. But also, you know, there are other things that kind of the knock on effects in terms of accuracy. So for example, robot will do is exactly as it's told it doesn't make any mistakes, it doesn't have sick days, you know, it does what it says on the tin and actually that kind of impact. So, it's not necessarily, you know, counting your numbers it's the fact that then doesn't generate a call from a customer that kind of says, "Well you, I think you've got this wrong." So, it's all that kind of, these kind of ripple effects that go out. I think is how we measure the fact that A, the garage is working and b, it's delivering the value that we needed to deliver. >> Robots, probably ask better questions too so yeah... (Lianne laughing) So, real quick, just real quick before you head out. So, the big challenge next, eureka, this works, right? Amar, you put together this fantastic system it's in great practice at the DWP, now what do we do? So, it's just in 30 seconds, Amar, maybe if you can look at, be the headlights down the road here for DWP and say, "This is where I think we can jump to next." >> Yeah, so I think, what we've been able to prove as I say is that is scaled innovation and having the return and the value that it creates is here to stay, right? So, I think the next things for us are a continuous expand the stuff that we're doing. Keeping hold of that culture, right? That culture of constantly solving difficult problems and being able to innovate and scale them. So, we are now doing a lot more automations across the department, you know, across different benefits across the digital agenda. I think we're also now becoming almost a bit of the fabric of enabling some of the digital transformation that big organizations look at, right? So moving to a world where you can have a venture driven architectures and being able to sort of scale that. I also think the natural sort of expansion of the team and the type of work that we're going to do is probably also going to expand into sort of the analytics side of it and understanding and seeing how we can take the data from the cases that we're processing to overall have a smoother journey across for our citizens. But it's looking, you know, the future's looking bright. I think we've got a number of different backlogs of items to work on. >> Well, you've got a great story to tell and thank you for sharing it with us here on "the CUBE", talking about DWP, the Department of Work and Pensions in the UK and the great work that Accenture's doing to make 20 million lives plus, a lot simpler for our friends in England. You've been watching ""the CUBE"" the AWS Executive Summit sponsored by Accenture. (bright upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Well, hello everybody. John Walls is here on "the CUBE". Great to have you with us as we continue our series here at the AWS Executive Summit sponsored by Accenture. And today we're talking about public service and not just a little slice of public service but probably the largest public sector offering in the UK and for with us or with us. Now to talk about that is Lianne Anderton, who is in with the Intelligent Automation Garage Delivery Lead at the UK Department of Work and Pension. Lianne, good to see you today. Thanks for joining us here on "the CUBE". >> Hi, thanks for having me. >> And also with this us is Amar Narayan, who is a Manager Director at Accenture the AWS Business Group for the Lead in Health and Public Sector, also UK and Ireland. And Amar, I think, you and Lianne, are in the same location, Newcastle, I believe in the UK, is that right? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yep, yeah, we're, here in the northeast of UK. >> Well, thank you for being with us. I appreciate the time. Lianne, let's talk about what you do, the Department of Work and Pension, the famous DWP in England. You have influence or certainly touchpoints with a huge amount of the British population. In what respects, what are you doing for the working class in England and what does technology have to do with all that? >> Sure, so for the Department for Work and Pensions I think the pensions bit is fairly self explanatory so anybody who is over state pension age within the UK. for the work part of that we also deal with people of working age. So, these are people who are either in employment and need additional help through various benefits we offer in the UK. Those people who are out of work. And we also deal with health related benefits as well. And we are currently serving over 20 million claimants every year at this moment in time. So, we're aware of a huge part of the UK government. >> All right, so say that number again. How many? >> 20 million claimants every year. >> Million with an M, right? >> Yeah. >> So, and that's individuals. And so how many transactions, if you will, how many do you think you process in a month? How, much traffic basically, are you seeing? >> An extraordinary amount? I'm not even, I don't think I even know that number. (Lianne laughing) >> Mind blowing, right? So, it's- >> A huge, huge amount. >> Mind blowing. >> Yeah, so, basically the we kind of keep the country going. So, you know, if the department for Work and Pensions kind of didn't exist anymore then actually it would cause an infinite number of problems in society. We, kind of help and support the people who need that. And, yeah, so we play a really vital role in kind of you know, social care and kind of public service. >> So, what was your journey to Accenture then? What, eventually led you to them? What problem were you having and how have you collaborated to solve that? >> So, in terms of how we work with Accenture. So, we had in around 2017 DWP was looking at a projected number of transactions growing by about 210 million which was, you know, an extraordinary amount. And, you know, I think as we've kind of covered everything that we do is on a massive scale. So, we as DWP as an organization we had absolutely no idea how we were going to be able to handle such a massive increase in the transactions. And actually, you know, after kind of various kind of paths and ideas of how we were going to do that, automation, was actually the answer. But the problem that we have with that is that we have, like many governments around the world, we have really older legacy systems. So, each of these benefits that we deal with are on legacy systems. So, whatever we were going to develop had to, you know, connect to all of these, it had to ingest and then process all of these pieces of data some of which, you know, given the fact that a lot of these systems have a lot of manual input you have data issues there that you have to solve and whatever we did, you know, as we've talked about in terms of volumes has to scale instantly as well. So, it has to be able to scale up and down to meet demand and, you know, and that down scaling is also equally as important. So yeah, you've got to be able to scale up to meet the volumes but also you've got to be able to downscale when when it's not needed. But we had nothing that was like that kind of helped us to meet that demand. So, we built our own automation platform, The Intelligent Automation Garage and we did that with Accenture. >> So Amar, I'd like you to chime in here then. So, you're looking at this client who has this massive footprint and obviously vital services, right? So, that's paramount that you have to keep that in mind and the legacy systems that Lianne was just talking about. So, now you're trying to get 'em in the next gen but also respecting that they have a serious investment already in a lot of technology. How do you approach that kind of problem solving, those dynamics and how in this case did you get them to automation as the solution? >> Sure, so I think I think one of the interesting things, yeah as Lianne has sort of described it, right? It's effectively like, you know the department has to have be running all of the time, right? They can't, you know, they can't effectively stop and then do a bunch of IT transformation, you know it's effectively like, you know, changing the wheels of a jumbo jet whilst it's taking off, right? And you've got to do all of that all in one go. But what I think we really, really liked about the situation that we were in and the client relationship we had was that we knew we had to it wasn't just a technology play, we couldn't just go, "All right, let's just put some new technology in." What we also needed to do was really sort of create a culture, an innovation culture, and go, "Well how do we think about the problems that we currently have and how do we think about solving them differently and in collaboration, right?" So, not just the, "Let's just outsource a bunch of technology for to, you know, to Accenture and build a bunch of stuff." So, we very carefully thought about, well actually, the unique situation that they're in the demands that the citizens have on the services that the department provide. And as Lianne mentioned, that technology didn't exist. So, we fundamentally looked at this in a different way. So, we worked really closely with the department. We said, Look, actually what we ultimately need is the equivalent of a virtual workforce. Something where if you already, you know all of a sudden had a hundred thousand pension claims that needed to be processed in a week that you could click your fingers and, you know in a physical world you'd have another building all of your kits, a whole bunch of trained staff that would be able to process that work. And if in the following week you didn't need that you no longer needed that building that stuff or the machinery. And we wanted to replicate that in the virtual world. So, we started designing a platform we utilized and focused on using AWS because it had the scalability. And we thought about, how were we going to connect something as new as AWS to all of these legacy systems. How are we going to make that work in the modern world? How are we going to integrate it? How we going to make sure it's secure? And frankly, we're really honest with the client we said, "Look, this hasn't been done before. Like, nowhere in Accenture has done it. No one's done it in the industry. We've got some smart people, I think we can do it." And, we've prototyped and we've built and we were able to prove that we can do that. And that in itself just created an environment of solving tricky problems and being innovative but most importantly not doing sort of proof of concepts that didn't go anywhere but building something that actually scaled. And I think that was really the real the start of what was has been the Garage. >> So, And Lianne, you mentioned this and you just referred to it Amar, about The Garage, right? The Intelligent Automation Garage. What exactly is it? I mean, we talked about it, what the needs are all this and that, but Lianne, I'll let you jump in first and Amar, certainly compliment her remarks, but what is the IAG, what's the... >> So, you know, I think exactly what kind of Amar, has said from a from a kind of a development point of view I think it started off, you know, really, really small. And the idea is that this is DWP, intelligent automation center of excellence. So, you know, it's aims are that, you know, it makes sure that it scopes out kind of the problems that DWP are are facing properly. So, we really understand what the crux of the problem is. In large organizations It's very easy, I think to think you understand what the problem is where actually, you know, it is really about kind of delving into what that is. And actually we have a dedicated design team that really kind of get under the bonnet of what these issues really are. It then kind of architects what the solutions need to look like using as Amar said, all the exciting new technology that we kind of have available to us. That kind of sensible solution as to what that should look like. We then build that sensible solution and we then, you know as part of that, we make sure that it scales to demand. So, something that might start out with, I dunno, you know a few hundred claimants or kind of cases going through it can quite often, you know, once that's that's been successful scale really, really quickly because as you know, we have 20 million claimants that come through us every year. So, these types of things can grow and expand but also a really key function of what we do is that we have a fully supported in-house service as well. So, all of those automations that we build are then maintained and you know, so any changes that kind of needed to be need to be made to them, we have all that and we have that control and we have our kind of arms wrapped around all of those. But also what that allows us to do is it allows us to be very kind of self-sufficient in making sure that we are as sufficient, sorry, as efficient as possible. And what I mean by that is looking at, you know as new technologies come around and they can allow us to do things more effectively. So, it allows us to kind of almost do that that kind of continuous improvement ourselves. So, that's a huge part of what we do as well. And you know, I think from a size point of view I said this started off really small as in the idea was this was a kind of center of excellence but actually as automation, I think as Amar alluded to is kind of really started to embed in DWP culture what we've started to kind of see is the a massive expansion in the types of of work that people want us to do and the volume of work that we are doing. So, I think we're currently running at around around a hundred people at the moment and I think, you know we started off with a scrum, a couple of scrum teams under Amar, so yeah, it's really grown. But you know, I think this is here to stay within DWP. >> Yeah, well when we talk about automation, you know virtual and robotics and all this I like to kind of keep the human element in mind here too. And Amar, maybe you can touch on that in certain terms of the human factors in this equation. 'Cause people think about, you know, robots it means different things to different people. In your mind, how does automation intersect with the human element here and in terms of the kinds of things Lianne wants to do down the road, you know, is a road for people basically? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. I think fundamentally what the department does is support people and therefore the solutions that we designed and built had to factor that in mind right? We were trying to best support and provide the best service we possibly can. And not only do we need to support the citizens that it supports. The department itself is a big organization, right? We're up to, we're talking between sort of 70 and 80,000 employees. So, how do we embed automation but also make the lives of the, of the DWP agents better as well? And that's what we thought about. So we said, "Well look, we think we can design solutions that do both." So, a lot of our automations go through a design process and we work closely with our operations team and we go, well actually, you know in processing and benefit, there are some aspects of that processing that benefit that are copy and paste, right? It doesn't require much thought around it, but it just requires capturing data and there's elements of that solution or that process that requires actual thought and understanding and really empathy around going, "Well how do I best support this citizen?" And what we tended to do is we took all of the things that were sort of laborious and took a lot of time and would slow down the overall process and we automated those and then we really focused on making sure that the elements that required the human, the human input was made as user friendly and centric as we possibly could. So, if there's a really complex case that needs to be processed, we were able to present the information in a really digestible and understandable way for the agents so that they could make a informed and sensible decision based around a citizen. And what that enabled us to do is essentially meet the demands of the volumes and the peaks that came in but also maintain the quality and if not improve, you know the accuracy of the claims processing that we had. >> So, how do you know, and maybe Lianne, you can address this. How do you know that it's successful on both sides of that equation? And, 'cause Amar raised a very good point. You have 70 to 80,000 employees that you're trying to make their work life much more efficient, much simpler and hopefully make them better at their jobs at the end of the day. But you're also taking care of 20 million clients on the, your side too. So, how do you, what's your measurement for success and what kind of like raw feedback do you get that says, "Okay, this has worked for both of our client bases, both our citizens and our employees?" >> Yeah, so we can look at this both from a a quantitative and a qualitative point of view as well. So, I think from a let take the kind figures first. So we are really hot on making sure that whatever automations we put in place we are there to measure how that automation is working what it's kind of doing and the impact that it's having from an operational point of view. So I think, you know, I think the proof of the fact that the Intelligent Automation Garage is working is that, you know, in the, in its lifetime, we've processed over 20 million items and cases so far. We have 65 scaled and transitioned automations and we've saved over 2 million operational hours. I was going to say that again that's 2 million operational hours. And what that allows us to do as an organization those 2 million hours have allowed us to rather than people as Amar, said, cutting and pasting and doing work that that is essentially very time consuming and repetitive. That 2 million hours we've been able to use on actual decision making. So, the stuff that you need as sentient human being to make judgment calls on and you know and kind of make those decisions that's what it's allowed us as an organization to do. And then I think from a quality point of view I think the feedback that we have from our operational teams is, you know is equally as as great. So, we have that kind of feedback from, you know all the way up from to the director level about, you know how it's kind of like I said that freeing up that time but actually making the operational, you know they don't have an easy job and it's making that an awful lot easier on a day to day basis. It has a real day to day impact. But also, you know, there are other things that kind of the knock on effects in terms of accuracy. So for example, robot will do is exactly as it's told it doesn't make any mistakes, it doesn't have sick days, you know, it does what it says on the tin and actually that kind of impact. So, it's not necessarily, you know, counting your numbers it's the fact that then doesn't generate a call from a customer that kind of says, "Well you, I think you've got this wrong." So, it's all that kind of, these kind of ripple effects that go out. I think is how we measure the fact that A, the garage is working and b, it's delivering the value that we needed to deliver. >> Robots, probably ask better questions too so yeah... (Lianne laughing) So, real quick, just real quick before you head out. So, the big challenge next, eureka, this works, right? Amar, you put together this fantastic system it's in great practice at the DWP, now what do we do? So, it's just in 30 seconds, Amar, maybe if you can look at, be the headlights down the road here for DWP and say, "This is where I think we can jump to next." >> Yeah, so I think, what we've been able to prove as I say is that is scaled innovation and having the return and the value that it creates is here to stay, right? So, I think the next things for us are a continuous expand the stuff that we're doing. Keeping hold of that culture, right? That culture of constantly solving difficult problems and being able to innovate and scale them. So, we are now doing a lot more automations across the department, you know, across different benefits across the digital agenda. I think we're also now becoming almost a bit of the fabric of enabling some of the digital transformation that big organizations look at, right? So moving to a world where you can have a venture driven architectures and being able to sort of scale that. I also think the natural sort of expansion of the team and the type of work that we're going to do is probably also going to expand into sort of the analytics side of it and understanding and seeing how we can take the data from the cases that we're processing to overall have a smoother journey across for our citizens. But it's looking, you know, the future's looking bright. I think we've got a number of different backlogs of items to work on. >> Well, you've got a great story to tell and thank you for sharing it with us here on "the CUBE", talking about DWP, the Department of Work and Pensions in the UK and the great work that Accenture's doing to make 20 million lives plus, a lot simpler for our friends in England. You've been watching ""the CUBE"" the AWS Executive Summit sponsored by Accenture. (bright upbeat music)

(Upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone, to theCUBE's Coverage of Red Hat Summit 2021 virtual I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE got two great guests from Deloitte Consulting Dave Knight who manages the Red Hat Relationship, Lee he's the lead there, and Mike Bourgeois who's the Public Sector Managing Director both from Deloitte Consulting LLP official name. Guys, great to come on, and we were just talking before camera about all the stories. Great to have you on theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> Like I said we were just talking about all the stories from the transition from pre-COVID, COVID. Now we've got a view into post-COVID. I want to dig into that 'cause there's a lot of things happening. You guys have been in the trenches, front lines bringing solutions, but before we get into that, can you guys just introduce yourself share your roles at Deloitte and give us a quick overview of what you work on. >> Yeah, so again, thanks for having us John Dave Knight I'm a solution architect and Global Red Hat Alliance Manager for Deloitte. I've got responsibility for making sure that play nicely in the sandbox together or we've got a joint customer and solutions to deliver to those customers. >> Hi everyone, thanks for having us John, I'm a Managing Director Mike Bushwa out of Boston Texas. I am coming up on year 20 and Public Sector Consulting. My area of expertise is large state government systems that serve the needs of millions of citizens and thousands of state workers, good to be here. >> Yeah. Great to have you. And I wanted to chime in with you right away because Mike you are living in probably one of the hottest markets Public Sector. I've been following that for many, many years, generations actually from the early computer industry GSA contracts, all these contracts you've got all the Public Sector, they move very slowly but now the pandemic, there was no place to hide. Everything got pulled back, disruption, you can't just shut down critical infrastructure and critical services. People had to move fast. What was your experience and how is it now give us a taste of some of the challenges and the landscape. >> You bet John, so we talked a little bit before we started this, but my 20 year consulting career, I can't think of anything really in close to this, other than maybe Y2K and as Dave mentioned the Affordable Care Act Legislation in 2009, though that was a much smaller scale as it turned out to be. So I would be remiss not to share examples of extraordinary challenges our clients have had related to the pandemic. Department of Labor and Health and Human Service Agencies for example, responded to the pandemic in rapid timeframe that were rarely seen in government. Citizens that were used to coming in appealed offices, We're now required to do most things virtually. Deloitte has been privileged to assist clients with digital solutions across the country in response to this unprecedented event. And so I'd like to share just a couple of examples. The first is for Department of Labor, the pandemic contributed to millions of layoffs throughout the country Department of Labor workers found called volumes increasing by a 1000% in some cases, the amount of increased volume required agencies across the country hire temporary workers to help out. Millions of new unemployment claims needed to be filed in benefits rapidly provided to citizens of name. So the big challenge was the agency had to figure out how to rapidly file claims into the unemployment system, rather than requiring new citizens to use an external web application they were really unfamiliar, the agency needed more efficient approach. The approach we used was to create an internal web application that enabled workers to file unemployment insurance claims on behalf of citizens. Workers collected the necessary data from citizens and claims were filed into the system. The application enabled workers to focus on filing claims rather than sort of a technical support role showing how to people use an external web application. More citizen were served in much less time, claims are filed efficiently by train workers which resulted in benefits being received in a much more timely fashion. And so a second example is, with Department of Human Services. So one stay as mentioned Citizens were used to going into field offices but suddenly they were told you can't come into the field office. So once they provided a 100% virtual application and the important part here is certification solution for the Disaster Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program or DSNAP for short. this application was stood up in two weeks, families who needed food assistance can now apply and be certified for benefits remotely. Today over 50,000 cases have certified and citizens receiving food nutrition assistance. Back to you John. >> So, I mean obviously there's some great use cases you got, basically I got to work at home, new architecture there you got to have a new workflows. I mean, this poses some real challenges. How did you guys put it together? I mean, Dave take us through where this all fits in with the Red Hat, because obviously now it's new deployment new capabilities have to be deployed for the pandemic. How does this bring together the partnership with Red Hat? >> Yeah, so great question and it really plays to the strength of both Deloitte and Red Hat, right? The success stories that Mike has illustrated show how we can quickly pivot as a firm to delivering these types of solutions and help our customers think through innovative ways to solve the problems. So, I mean the prime example that Mike just gave, everything used to be done in offices. Now it's all done remotely cause you can't go to the office even if you want to. And that is very much aligned with the innovation we get with our partnership with Red Hat, right? They've led the way in open source and some of the technologies that we've leveraged that our solutions include, answerable for automation, some of the middleware products, and I would say one of the cornerstones is the OpenShift Platform. Now that allows us to greatly accelerate the development and delivery of those solutions to our customers. Sort of again, aligning our innovative thinking with Red Hats Innovative Technologies. >> What would you say if someone said, "what's the partnership strengths and what needs specifically are you addressing with customers and customer needs?" >> So I, again, I think our lean towards innovation is a common thread across both firms and where we have our greatest strength. We like to take our customers on a journey but it's not our journey, it's their journey, right? So we help them figure out where they want to go and how they want to get there in a way that aligns with their business goals, their budgets all the sort of factors that drive those things and Red Hat is very open to that approach. They sort of invented the crowdsourcing of open source they made it into a business model. They've developed that from literally nothing. And that aligns very nicely with us. That's one of the key strengths. We also are firm believers in open source again to the degree that our customers like the leverage that to drive their journeys. And we're seeing that, especially in the Public Sector Space as being a key driver of the technologies they employ. >> Mike, I want to come back to you on this open ma component open question, open source, open to technology open innovation out in the open as Red Hat calls it. How does Red Hat open source software, address the needs for your customers for security and on-premise considerations. >> I'll talk a little bit about open source principles in general still the open source principles of transparency meritocracy community problem solving and collaboration. These are on its of both software innovation as well as organizational transformation. One of the highest demand transformation needs that I'm seeing in the market is the desire to adopt innovative technology, and most importantly, moving workloads to the cloud. It's no longer a thought, it is an imperative moving workloads to the cloud, on new deals hosted in the cloud, on an existing, is it large systems let Deloitte help us get to the cloud. So I believe the key to success embracing the cloud is recognizing first the need for change in people, processes and technology. The vehicle for this transformation is DevSecOps and innovative open source platforms, such as the OpenShift platform that Dave mentioned. OpenShift focuses on people, processes and technology and the security conversation becomes even easier. I mean, I see Linux was around for years, and we've always used Linux on our Java based workloads now we can have the conversation about saying, Hey, well that se Linux operating system we've been using for years now, there's this really cool Container Management Platform that we can solve real problems like auto scaling, in my Health and Human Services career, I can remember every year when open enrollment comes around systems engineers are teed up, and ready to manually add those to a BMR cluster or something like that. Well, now we don't have to do these things. We can rely on Kubernetes so auto scale, and then and get rid of those instances when workload demands seven resolved. So it's a really cool technology kind of behind the scenes. It's not the dog and pony show sometimes but in the end it helps the clients and Deloitte remain consistent with those service level agreements. >> That's a great example about the open enrollment illustrates the fact that, you got to provision more stuff to take that load on it. It's always hard in Public Sector you might not have the speed. So I got to follow up and ask you, you guys have had wins in the Public Sector lately with Red Hat, you guys Deloitte and Red Hat working together and get some wins under your belt, on around cloud and cloud and technology obviously with the pandemic has needs there. Are you guys seeing any particular sector challenges specifically around Public Sector as it goes this next level a lot of modernization happening we're seeing that, but any challenges that you're seeing, can you give some examples of how these challenges are being addressed? First talk about the challenges and then give some examples of how they're overcoming them. >> So I can jump in here with this one then, and Mike I think you probably have some maybe Public Sector specific examples, but one of the things that I think is common across all industries is resource constraints, right? And particularly as we look for human resources and not in the HR sense, but developers, CIS admins those types of resources as Mike said, the cloud is here to stay, right? And it's not something that people are thinking about it's de facto part of the conversation. And that's great, but it leads to silos of skills which puts further sort of strain on a limited pool of resources within most sites IT organization. So something like an OpenShift, something like an Ansible solves problems related to resource constraints, because they're skills that are portable across cloud environments, right? If you can manage OpenShift you can manage OpenShift on-prem, you can manage it recently released AWS version of that ROSA on the Azure version of that. So it's no matter where you're running it you've got a common set of skills and access sort of a force multiplier, same thing with Ansible automation, right? If you can write scripts, with an Ansible you can do those repeatable tasks in a much more efficient fashion. And again sort of multiplying the capacity of your existing workforce. >> So you've got an operating leverage there. I mean, this is what you're getting at is that, Public Sector and other commercial areas they kind of got to get used to this fact that, you get some leverage here, you get some operating leverage. >> More or less has always been a thing in IT. And it's not relenting that's for sure. >> It's been more at the more, with less has always been kind of a tagline for budget cuts, right? You can squeeze more out of the investment. Here it's kind of like do more with less than the sense of there's more net new things happening with leverage. So, I mean, do you agree with that? What's your take on that? >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It's more with less from a resource perspective, right? Typically it was budget, but no money is just another resource. Now we're getting into the personnel side of it. The other thing I would say is, something like an OpenShift Platform allows the Mike's point around DevOps, it allows the developers to develop, right? I have an article in wired.com about this, where developers are saddled with meetings and they have to become concerned with infrastructure and they have traditionally and security. And I am I doing all these things that aren't related to development. If you have a good DevOps Platform in place the security folks can build guard rails into the platform and the developers can just go develop which is what they want to do in the first place. Yeah exactly, that's another riff on the more, with less, again in a resource, the human resource way versus the budget way. >> Yeah, and that really is where OpenShift ties in. Mike what's your take on this? Because with this kind of program ability infrastructure as code DevSecOps kind of modern developers, Public Sector loves that, because they just want to build the new apps. They got to modernize. So change the infrastructure once. And then a lot of ma many benefits on top of it. It's almost like, it sounds like an operating system to me. >> Yeah, lots of thoughts going around my head right now but I'll say the more with less to me when I'm having client conversations is imagine a world of higher innovation, more technology at lower costs, right? I mean, so CIO is light up when I explained to them the orders of magnitude cost savings on top of the innovation introduced to their environment. So when moving workloads to the cloud is not as easy as just packaging up a binary and dropping in on a name, your cloud provider, right? There's an entire, a blueprinting strategy. There's a Cloud Native Architecture, modernization discussion, so we do those sorts of things, at Deloitte and we work with clients very closely to do that. I want to say teaming with Red Hat allows us to be proactive with our design and reference architecture validation. The Collaborative Partnership in Relationship allows us to connect senior engineers from Deloitte and Red Hat. So we have low level strategic discussions, we validate our assumptions and optimize to use a Red Hat technology. What we're doing in Public Sector is separating the monolithic application into layers. And whenever it comes to technologies like Ansible, like OpenShift, like Jenkins, all of these things that any application needs and Public Sector, we're saying out to the account teams across the country, look this is a slower layer DevOps Platform. And by the way, you can run any .Net or Java based workload on it. So we're trying to make opinionated reference architecture so that regardless of the solution, we can just go to market with that platform that tried and true production application. So I'll give a quick example John, if now's a convenient time regarding, well, one of the things that we've done for particular state client. >> Definitely yeah, give the use cases we love those. >> Yes so one of the impactful modernization that struck my mind was the State of Washington. They've mentioned the affordable care act earlier, there are two major things that came out of that. One was the eligibility and enrollment systems had to be modified across all 50 states. But the second thing and the primary driver behind the affordable care act was health insurance exchange. A way for millions of citizens to have access to healthcare using Subsidized Health Insurance Plans. So in Washington and health benefits exchange is that health insurance exchange, State of Washington has been a client of Deloitte since 2012. The solution was originally designed using closed source proprietary products. There are three drivers for change. The first is the API gateway was end of life and needed to be replaced. Number two was the client wanted it to move health benefit exchange to the cloud from an on-premise hosting arrangement. And third is reducing cost of those solution with innovative products. So the agency was looking for a platform that provided flexibility, auto-scaling and performance and lower cost of ownership. So we worked with the agency and we evaluated a variety of API Management and Integration Platforms after reviewing the outcomes for each proof of concept the agency decided to move forward with Red Hats, three skill API Management Platform, Red Hat Fuse for Integration and OpenShift Container Platform that offered the auto-scaling continuous integration tools and out of the box monitoring and reporting capabilities proactively monitor the health of the solution. I often describe a little bit of OpenShift as a data center or DevSecOps in the box. It just is all there. You don't need to add layers on top of OpenShift install and configure it, tune it and just you're off and running in a short amount of time. So three outcomes I'll mention, go ahead, John. >> NO continue, I thought you were finished. So on the outcomes side, the first outcome the agency substantially lower the cost of ownership using commercially supported open source while increasing access to innovative emerging technology. So the agency wanted a solution not only to meet their current needs, but extend the solution going forward. The beautiful thing about OpenShift is you can drop a container images into the platform without installing an operating system. It's all just there and it's spreading to be extended. The number two outcome cloud migration. Deloitte work collaboratively with the agencies and infrastructure and managed services team to successfully migrate the health benefit exchange to the cloud. And the last thing a bit obvious, but that's successful release, working collaboratively with our client. We were able to migrate the solution within 100 days from making the products decision. The cut over to the new solution was seamless with minimal downtime and zero production issues or exceptionally proud of that. >> Great stuff, great use case. And again, those are great business examples. Dave, I want to get this last question to you and Mike can chime in too. As Red Hat Summit evolves, and we're hearing the theme here at the event about transformation is the innovation, Innovation is about scale. When you hear the words like in a box or Hybrid Cloud you hear about an operating environment. So it's an opportunity to set the table for the next generation, this is what I see. What do you guys see as people talk about Hybrid Cloud and soon to be Multiple Cloud? Because you guys you said have tough relationships. You deal with IBM and Red Hat and you probably deal with other people. Clients want, from what we hear they want back to the Multi Vendor Open Connection Distributed Environment. That's what they want. So how does your relationship evolve, given all this is happening? How do you see the future, please chime in. >> Thanks, that's a fantastic question. I actually think the market is coming catching up to where I've been thinking for quite a while. And that is the Hybrid is kind of where it's at. A lot of customers have been in some sort of Hybrid mode as part of the step or a journey to the cloud, getting all the way to the cloud. But I think we're seeing some transition. I know customers are starting to ask me more and more about Hybrid solutions for a variety of reasons, right? The easy workloads for the most part have either been moved or be are being moved, or at least there's a strategy and a plan to get them moved. And now we're starting to be asked about some of the more difficult architecture type questions, right? The workloads that are a little bit more sticky to the on-premise model. And so Hybrid becoming more of the endpoint as opposed to a step along the journey. The other big thing is some repatriation, right? Workloads coming off of cloud. Maybe they seem like good candidates but for whatever reason, the cost drivers or other things weren't realized, let's get them back on premise. Maybe it's a regulatory thing and new regulations are making folks uncomfortable. So I see Hybrid as a pretty interesting next wave of cloud, Deloitte as a far or we're skilling up or tooling up in order to address the needs of our customers, again are starting to ask us these really challenging questions about Hybrid Cloud and Hybrid Cloud Architectures. >> Yeah and just the key point there is that you think about it like with the way you're discussing it, it's a platform, not a tool, right? So if you think about it like a platform then you can move things around and look at architectures and changes of how resources and workloads are deployed and then what data you're getting from it. Whether you bring it to a factory, for instance you say, Hey, okay, we're going to put it on prem because it's a factory or whatever, and you need more data. What was the changeover? This is like a day to operations kind of mindset. What's your comment on that? >> Well I mean I have actually going back three years now, one of the marketing lines that we developed internally, was moved to a platform, not a provider. But because you get that flexibility, now, the reality is what works stay where they're put for a variety of reasons. But I think one of those reasons could be, because they're put in places where they tend to not want to move, right? So if we could put them into a platform where, there is some portability built into the platform, I think we might have a different sort of outcomes for customers. And I think architecture is absolutely the key, right? That to me is the secret sauce here. >> Mike set up for you to close us out here, platform, Public Sector, Hybrid, that's what they want. It's an ideal scenario for anyone in Public Sector and in general, and why wouldn't you want to have a great platform that's it can be programmed, and rearchitected at will for the benefit of the business powered by software. What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, all good points and I will agree with Dave that Hybrid is certainly evolving. Eight years ago, Hybrid was consuming and address validation API in the cloud and not custom coding that, but today I do agree that Hybrid Cloud is all about a vehicle a way of moving workloads across data centers. It's an architecture that is encapsulated by something like an OpenShift so that you can federate your workloads across data centers. You can put them in one or easily moved them to the other. Maybe that's for a variety of reasons. It could be compute and storage is being reduced by one provider versus the other. So the solutions were we're designing today, they are data center agnostic, we're not being tied to data centers anymore. The best design solutions, you can just let them move in their easy manner. So that that's my take on Hybrid Cloud. And I would say the and Red Hat are making investments to help us advance that thinking help us advance those solutions. We had Deloitte have created a Red Hat OpenShift lab environment, and we've done this purposely to validate reference architectures to show account teams the way we have delivered the very very large accounts to show them what DevSecOps to means from a product perspective and to give them opinionated processes to be successful in delivering these large type solutions. >> Dave, Mike, thanks for coming on, and I appreciate you guys coming on theCUBE and sharing the perspective on the Red Hat Relationship with Deloitte Consulting. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, John. >> This is CUBE Coverage of Red Hat Summit 2021, am John for your host, thanks for watching.

(bright upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this exclusive Cube Conversation. We have the pleasure today to welcome, Wim Coekaerts, senior vice president of software development at Oracle. Wim, it's good to see you. How you been, sir? >> Good, it's been a while since we last talked but I'm excited to be here, as always. >> It was during COVID though and so I hope to see you face to face soon. But so Wim, since the Barron's Article declared Oracle a Cloud giant, we've really been sort of paying attention and amping up our coverage of Oracle and asking a lot of questions like, is Oracle really a Cloud giant? And I'll say this, we've always stressed that Oracle invests in R&D and of course there's a lot of D in that equation. And over the past year, we've seen, of course the autonomous database is ramping up, especially notable on Exadata Cloud@Customer, we've covered that extensively. We covered the autonomous data warehouse announcement, the blockchain piece, which of course got me excited 'cause I get to talk about crypto with Juan. Roving Edge, which for everybody who might not be familiar with that, it's an edge cloud service, dedicated regions that you guys announced, which is a managed cloud region. And so it's clear, you guys are serious about cloud. These are all cloud first services using second gen OCI. So, Oracle's making some moves but the question is, what are customers doing? Are they buying this stuff? Are they leaning into these new deployment models for the databases? What can you tell us? >> You know, definitely. And I think, you know, the reason that we have so many different services is that not every customer is the same, right? One of the things that people don't necessarily realize, I guess, is in the early days of cloud lots of startups went there because they had no local infrastructure. It was easy for them to get started in something completely new. Our customers are mostly enterprise customers that have huge data centers in many cases, they have lots of real estate local. And when they think about cloud they're wondering how can we create an environment that doesn't cause us to have two ops teams and two ways of managing things. And so, they're trying to figure out exactly what it means to take their real estate and either move it wholesale to the cloud over a period of years, or they say, "Hey, some of these things need to be local maybe even for regulatory purposes." Or just because they want to keep some data locally within their own data centers but then they have to move other things remotely. And so, there's many different ways of solving the problem. And you can't just say, "Here's one cloud, this is where you go and that's it." So, we basically say, if you're on prem, we provide you with cloud services on-premises, like dedicated regions or Oracle Exadata Cloud@Customer and so forth so that you get the benefits of what we built for cloud and spend a lot of time on, but you can run them in your own data center or people say, "No, no, no. I want to get rid of my data centers, I do it remotely." Okay, then you do it in Oracle cloud directly. Or you have a hybrid model where you say, "Some stays local, some is remote." The nice thing is you get the exact same API, the exact same way of managing things, no matter how you deploy it. And that's a big differentiator. >> So, is it fair to say that you guys have, I think of it as a purpose built club, 'cause I talk to a lot of customers. I mean, take an insurance app like Claims, and customers tell me, "I'm not putting that into the public cloud." But you're making a case that it actually might make sense in your cloud because you can support those mission critical applications with the exact same experience, same API, same... I can get, you know, take Rack for instance, I can't get, you know, real application clusters in an Amazon cloud but presumably I can get them in your cloud. So, is it fair to say you have a purpose built cloud specifically for the most demanding applications? Is that a right way to look at it or not necessarily? >> Well, it's interesting. I think the thing to be careful of is, I guess, purpose built cloud might for some people mean, "Oh, you can only do things if it's Oracle centric." Right, and so I think that fundamentally, Oracle cloud provides a generic cloud. You can run anything you want, any application, any deployment model that you have. Whether you're an Oracle customer or not, we provide you with a full cloud service, right? However, given that we know and have known, obviously for a long time, how our products run best, when we designed OCI gen two, when we designed the networking stack, the storage layer and all that stuff, we made sure that it would be capable of running our more complex environments because our advantage is, Oracle customers have a place where they can run Oracle the best. Right, and so obviously the context of purpose-built fits that model, where yes, we've made some design choices that allow us to run Rack inside OCI and allow us to deploy Exadatas inside OCI which you cannot do in other clouds. So yes, it's purpose built in that sense but I would caution on the side of that it sometimes might imply that it's unique to Oracle products and I guess one way to look at it is if you can run Oracle, you can run everything else, right? Because it's such a complex suite of products that if you can run that then it it'll support any other (mumbling). >> Right. Right, it's like New York city. You make it there, you can make it anywhere. If I can run the most demanding mission critical applications, well, then I can run a web app for instance, okay. I got a question on tooling 'cause there's a lot of tooling, like sometimes it makes my eyes bleed when I look at all this stuff and doesn't... Square the circle for me, doesn't autonomous, an autonomous database like Autonomous Linux, for instance, doesn't it eliminate the need for all these management tools? >> You know, it does. It eliminates the need for the management at the lower level, right. So, with the autonomous Linux, what we offer and what we do is, we automatically patch the operating system for you and make sure it's secure from a security patching point of view. We eliminate the downtime, so when we do it then you don't have to restart applications. However, we don't know necessarily what the app is that is installed on top of it. You know, people can deploy their own applications, they can run third party applications, they can use it for development environments and so forth. So, there's sort of the core operating system layer and on the database side, you know, we take care of database patching and upgrades and storage management and all that stuff. So the same thing, if you run your own application inside the database, we can manage the database portion but we don't manage the application portion just like on the operating system. And so, there's still a management level that's required, no matter what, a level above that. And the other thing and I think this is what a lot of the stuff we're doing is based on is, you still have tons of stuff on-premises that needs full management. You have applications that you migrate that are not running Autonomous Linux, could be a Windows application that's running or it could be something on a different Linux distribution or you could still have some databases installed that you manage yourself, you don't want to use the autonomous or you're on a third-party. And so we want to make sure that we can address all of them with a single set of tools, right. >> Okay, so I wonder, can you give us just an overview, just briefly of the products that comprise into the cloud services, your management solution, what's in that portfolio? How should we think about it? >> Yeah, so it basically starts with Enterprise Manager on-premises, right? Which has been the tool that our Oracle database customers in particular have been using for many years and is widely used by our customer base. And so you have those customers, most of their real estate is on-premises and they can use enterprise management with local. They have it running and they don't want to change. They can keep doing that and we keep enhancing as you know, with newer versions of Enterprise Manager getting better. So, then there's the transition to cloud and so what we've been doing over the last several years is basically, looking at the things, well, one aspect is looking at things people, likes of Enterprise Manager and make sure that we provide similar functionality in Oracle cloud. So, we have Performance Hub for looking at how the database performance is working. We have APM for Application Performance Monitoring, we have Logging Analytics that looks at all the different log files and helps make sense of it for you. We have Database Management. So, a lot of the functionality that people like in Enterprise Manager mentioned the database that we've built into Oracle cloud, and, you know, a number of other things that are coming Operations Insights, to look at how databases are performing and how we can potentially do consolidation and stuff. So we've basically looked at what people have been using on-premises, how we can replicate that in Oracle cloud and then also, when you're in a cloud, how you can make make use of all the base services that a cloud vendor provides, telemetry, logging and so forth. And so, it's a broad portfolio and what it allows us to do with our customers is say, "Look, if you're predominantly on-prem, you want to stay there, keep using Enterprise Manager. If you're starting to move to Oracle cloud, you can first use EM, look at what's happening in the cloud and then switch over, start using all the management products we have in the cloud and let go of the Enterprise Manager instance on-premise. So you can gradually shift, you can start using more and more. Maybe you start with analytics first and then you start with insights and then you switch to database management. So there's a whole suite of possibilities. >> (indistinct) you mentioned APM, I've been watching that space, it's really evolved. I mean, you saw, you know, years ago, Splunk came out with sort of log analytics, maybe simplified that a little bit, now you're seeing some open source stuff come out. You're seeing a lot of startups come out, you saw Cisco made an acquisition with AppD and that whole space is transforming it seems that the future is all about that end to end visibility, simplifying the ability to remediate problems. And I'm thinking, okay, you just mentioned, you guys have a lot of these capabilities, you got Autonomous, is that sort of where you're headed with your capabilities? >> It definitely is and in fact, one of the... So, you know, APM allows you to say, "Hey, here's my web browser and it's making a connection to the database, to a middle tier" and it's hard for operations people in companies to say, hey, the end user calls and says, "You know, my order entry system is slow. Is it the browser? Is it the middle tier that they connect to? Is it the database that's overloaded in the backend?" And so, APM helps you with tracing, you know, what happens from where to where, where the delays are. Now, once you know where the delay is, you need to drill down on it. And then you need to go look at log files. And that's where the logging piece comes in. And what happens very often is that these log files are very difficult to read. You have networking log files and you have database log files and you have reslog files and you almost have to be an expert in all of these things. And so, then with Logging Analytics, we basically provide sort of an expert dashboard system on top of that, that allows us to say, "Hey! When you look at logging for the network stack, here are the most important errors that we could find." So you don't have to go and learn all the details of these things. And so, the real advantages of saying, "Hey, we have APM, we have Logging Analytics, we can tie the two together." Right, and so we can provide a solution that actually helps solve the problem, rather than, you need to use APM for one vendor, you need to use Logging Analytics from another vendor and you know, that doesn't necessarily work very well. >> Yeah and that's why you're seeing with like the ELK Stack it's cool, you're an open source guy, it's cool as an open source, but it's complicated to set up all that that brings. So, that's kind of a cool approach that you guys are taking. You mentioned Enterprise Manager, you just made a recent announcement, a new release. What's new in that new release? >> So Enterprise Manager 13.5 just got released. And so EM keeps improving, right? We've made a lot of changes over over the years and one of the things we've done in recent years is do more frequent updates sort of the cloud model frequent updates that are not just bug fixes but also introduce new functionality so people get more stuff more frequently rather than you know, once a year. And that's certainly been very attractive because it shows that it's a lively evolving product. And one of the main focus areas of course is cloud. And so a lot of work that happens in Enterprise Manager is hybrid cloud, which basically means I run Enterprise Manager and I have some stuff in Oracle cloud, I might have some other stuff in another cloud vendors environment and so we can actually see which databases are where and provide you with one consolidated view and one tool, right? And of course it supports Autonomous Database and Exadata in cloud servers and so forth. So you can from EM see both your databases on-premises and also how it's doing in in Oracle cloud as you potentially migrate things over. So that's one aspect. And then the other one is in terms of operations and automation. One of the things that we started doing again with Enterprise Manager in the last few years is making sure that everything has a REST API. So we try to make the experience with Enterprise Manager be very similar to how people work with a cloud service. Most folks now writing automation tools are used to calling REST APIs. EM in the early days didn't have REST APIs, now we're making sure everything works that way. And one of the advantages is that we can do extensibility without having to rewrite the product, that we just add the API clause in the agent and it makes it a lot easier to become part of the modern system. Another thing that we introduced last year but that we're evolving with more dashboards and so forth is the Grafana plugin. So even though Enterprise Manager provides lots of cool tools, a lot of cloud operations folks use a tool called Grafana. And so we provide a plugin that allows customers to have Grafana dashboards but the data actually comes out of Enterprise Manager. So that allows us to integrate EM into a more cloudy world in a cloud environment. I think the other important part is making sure that again, Enterprise Manager has sort of a cloud feel to it. So when you do patching and upgrades, it's near zero downtime which basically means that we do all the upgrades for you without having to bring EM down. Because even though it's a management tool, it's used for operations. So if there were downtime for patching Enterprise Manager for an hour, then for that hour, it's a blackout window for all the monitoring we do. And so we want to avoid that from happening, so now EM is upgrading, even though all the events are still happening and being processed, and then we do a very short switch. So that help our operations people to be more available. >> Yes. I mean, I've been talking about Automated Operations since, you know, lights out data centers since the eighties back in (laughs). I remember (indistinct) data center one-time lights out there were storage tech libraries in there and so... But there were a lot of unintended consequences around, you know, automated ops, and so people were sort of scared to go there, at least lean in too much but now with all this machine intelligence... So you're talking about ops automation, you mentioned the REST APIs, the Grafana plugins, the Cloud feel, is that what you're bringing to the table that's unique, is that unique to Oracle? >> Well, the integration with Oracle in that sense is unique. So one example is you mentioned the word migration, right? And so database migration tends to be something, you know, customers obviously take very serious. We go from one place, you have to move all your data to another place that runs in a slightly different environment. And so how do you know whether that migration is going to work? And you can't migrate a thousand databases manually, right? So automation, again, it's not just... Automation is not just to say, "Hey, I can do an upgrade of a system or I can make sure that nothing is done by hand when you patch something." It's more about having a huge fleet of servers and a huge fleet of databases. How can you move something from one place to another and automate that? And so with EM, you know, we start with sort of the prerequisite phase. So we're looking at the existing environment, how much memory does it need? How much storage does it use? Which version of the database does it have? How much data is there to move? Then on the target side, we see whether the target can actually run in that environment. Then we go and look at, you know, how do you want to migrate? Do you want to migrate everything from a sort of a physical model or do you want to migrate it from a logical model? Do you want to do it while your environment is still running so that you start backing up the data to the target database while your existing production system is still running? Then we do a short switch afterwards, or you say, "No, I want to bring my database down. I want to do the migrate and then bring it back up." So there's different deployment models that we can let our customers pick. And then when the migration is done, we have a ton of health checks that can validate whether the target database will run through basically the exact same way. And then you can say, "I want to migrate 10 databases or 50 databases" and it'll work, It's all automated out of the box. >> So you're saying, I mean, you've looked at the prevailing way you've done migrations, historically you'd have to freeze the code and then migrate, and it would take forever, it was a function of the number of lines of code you had. And then a lot of times, you know, people would say, "We're not going to freeze the code" and then they would almost go out of business trying to merge the two. You're saying in 2021, you can give customers the choice, you can migrate, you could change the, you know, refuel the plane while you're in midair? Is that essentially what you're saying? >> That's a good way of describing it, yeah. So your existing database is running and we can do a logical backup and restore. So while transactions are happening we're still migrating it over and then you can do a cutoff. It makes the transition a lot easier. But the other thing is that in the past, migrations would typically be two things. One is one database version to the next, more upgrades than migration. Then the second one is that old hardware or a different CPU architecture are moving to newer hardware in a new CPU architecture. Those were sort of the typical migrations that you had prior to Cloud. And from a CIS admin point of view or a DBA it was all something you could touch, that you could physically touch the boxes. When you move to cloud, it's this nebulous thing somewhere in a data center that you have no access to. And that by itself creates a barrier to a lot of admins and DBA's from saying, "Oh, it'll be okay." There's a lot of concern. And so by baking in all these tests and the prerequisites and all the dashboards to say, you know, "This is what you use. These are the features you use. We know that they're available on the other side so you can do the migration." It helps solve some of these problems and remove the barriers. >> Well that was just kind of same same vision when you guys came up with it. I don't know, quite a while ago now. And it took a while to get there with, you know, you had gen one and then gen two but that is, I think, unique to Oracle. I know maybe some others that are trying to do that as well, but you were really the first to do that and so... I want to switch topics to talk about security. It's hot topic. You guys, you know, like many companies really focused on security. Does Enterprise Manager bring any of that over? I mean, the prevailing way to do security often times is to do scripts and write, you know, custom security policy scripts are fragile, they break, what can you tell us about security? >> Yeah. So there's really two things, you know. One is, we obviously have our own best security practices. How we run a database inside Oracle for our own world, we've learned about that over the years. And so we sort of baked that knowledge into Enterprise Manager. So we can say, "Hey, if you install this way, we do the install and the configuration based on our best practice." That's one thing. The other one is there's STIG, there's PCI and they're ShipBob, those are the main ones. And so customers can do their own way. They can download the documentation and do it manually. But what we've done is, and we've done this for a long time, is basically bake those policies into Enterprise Manager. So you can say, "Here's my database this needs to be PCI compliant or it needs to be HIPAA compliant and you push a button and then we validate the policies in those documents or in those prescript described files. And we make sure that the database is combined to that. And so we take that manual work and all that stuff basically out of the picture, we say, "Push this button and we'll take care of it." >> Now, Wim, but just quick sidebar here, last time we talked, it was under a year ago. It was definitely during COVID and it's still during COVID. We talked about the state of the penguin. So I'm wondering, you know, what's the latest update for Linux, any Linux developments that we should be aware of? >> Linux, we're still working very hard on Autonomous Linux and that's something where we can really differentiate and solve a problem. Of course, one of the things to mention is that Enterprise Manager can can do HIPAA compliance on Oracle Linux as well. So the security practices are not just for the database it can also go down to the operating system. Anyway, so on the Autonomous Linux side, you know, management in an Oracle Cloud's OS management is evolving. We're spending a lot of time on integrating log capturing, and if something were to go wrong that we can analyze a log file on the fly and send you a notification saying, "Hey, you know there was this bug and here's the cause." And it was potentially a fix for it to Autonomous Linux and we're putting a lot of effort into that. And then also sort of IT/operation management where we can look at the different applications that are running. So you're running a web server on a Linux environment or you're running some Java processes, we can see what's running. We can say, "Hey, here's the CPU utilization over the past week or the past year." And then how is this evolving? Say, if something suddenly spikes we can say, "Well, that's normal, because every Monday morning at 10 o'clock there's a spike or this is abnormal." And then you can start drilling this down. And this comes back to overtime integration with whether it's APM or Logging Analytics, we can tie the dots, right? We can connect them, we can say, "Push this thing, then click on that link." We give you the information. So it's that integration with the entire cloud platform that's really happening now >> Integration, there's that theme again. I want to come back to migration and I think you did a good job of explaining how you sort of make that non-disruptive and you know, your customers, I think, you know, generally you're pushing you know, that experience which makes people more comfortable. But my question is, why do people want to migrate if it works and it's on prem, are they doing it just because they want to get out of the data center business? Or is it a better experience in the cloud? What can you tell us there? >> You know, it's a little bit of everything. You know, one is, of course the idea that data center maintenance costs are very high. The other one is that when you run your own data center, you know, we obviously have this problem but when you're a cloud vendor, you have these problems but we're in this business. But if you buy a server, then in three years that server basically is depreciated by new versions and they have to do migration stuff. And so one of the advantages with cloud is you push a button, you have a new version of the hardware, basically, right? So the refreshes happen on a regular basis. You don't have to go and recycle that yourself. Then the other part is the subscription model. It's a lot easier to pay for what you use rather than you have a data center whether it's used or not, you pay for it. So there's the cost advantages and predictability of what you need, you pay for, you can say, "Oh next year we need to get x more of EMs." And it's easier to scale that, right? We take care of dealing with capacity planning. You don't have to deal with capacity planning of hardware, we do that as the cloud vendor. So there's all these practical advantages you get from doing it remotely and that's really what the appeal is. >> Right. So, as it relates to Enterprise Manager, did you guys have to like tear down the code and rebuild it? Was it entire like redo? How did you achieve that? >> No, no, no. So, Enterprise Manager keeps evolving and you know, we changed the underlying technologies here and there, piecemeal, not sort of a wholesale replacement. And so in talking about five, there's a lot of new stuff but it's built on the existing EM core. And so we're just, you know, improving certain areas. One of the things is, stability is important for our customers, obviously. And so by picking things piecemeal, we replace one engine rather than the whole thing. It allows us to introduce change more slowly, right. And then it's well-tested as a unit and then when we go on to the next thing. And then the other one is I mentioned earlier, a lot of the automation and extensibility comes from REST APIs. And so instead of basically re-writing everything we just provide a REST endpoint and we make all the new features that we built automatically be REST enabled. So that makes it a lot easier for us to introduce new stuff. >> Got it. So if I want to poke around with this new version of Enterprise Manager, can I do that? Is there a place I can go, do I have to call a rep? How does that work? >> Yeah, so for information you can just go to oracle.com/enterprise manager. That's the website that has all the data. The other thing is if you're already playing with Oracle Cloud or you use Oracle Cloud, we have Enterprise Manager images in the marketplace. So if you have never used EM, you can go to Oracle Cloud, push a button in the marketplace and you get a full Enterprise Manager installation in a matter of minutes. And then you can just start using that as well. >> Awesome. Hey, I wanted to ask you about, you know, people forget that you guys are the stewards of MySQL and we've been looking at MySQL Database Cloud service with HeatWave Did you name that? And so I wonder if you could talk about what you're doing with regard to managing HeatWave environments? >> So, HeatWave is the MySQL option that helps with analytics, right? And it really accelerates MySQL usage by 100 x and in some cases more and it's transparent to the customer. So as a MySQL user, you connect with standard MySQL applications and APIs and SQL and everything. And the HeatWave part is all done within the MySQL server. The engine itself says, "Oh, this SQL query, we can offload to the backend HeatWave cluster," which then goes in memory operations and blazingly fast returns it to you. And so the nice thing is that it turns every single MySQL database into also a data warehouse without any change whatsoever in your application. So it's been widely popular and it's quite exciting. I didn't personally name it, HeatWave, that was not my decision, but it sounds very cool. >> That's very cool. >> Yeah, It's a very cool name. >> We love MySQL, we started our company on the lamp stack, so like many >> Oh? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. That's great. So, yeah. And so with HeatWave or MySQL in general we're basically doing the same thing as we have done for the Oracle Database. So we're going to add more functionality in our database management tools to also look at HeatWave. So whether it's doing things like performance hub or generic database management and monitoring tools, we'll expand that in, you know, in the near future, in the future. >> That's great. Well, Wim, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming back in "The Cube" and letting me ask all my Colombo questions. It was really a pleasure having you. (mumbling) >> It's good be here. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. And thank you for watching, everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi everyone, thank you for joining us at the Data Cloud Summit. The last couple of months have been an exciting time at Snowflake. And yet, what's even more compelling to all of us at Snowflake is what's ahead. Today I have the opportunity to share new product developments that will extend the reach and impact of our Data Cloud and improve the experience of Snowflake users. Our product strategy is focused on four major areas. First, Data Cloud content. In the Data Cloud silos are eliminated and our vision is to bring the world's data within reach of every organization. You'll hear about new data sets and data services available in our data marketplace and see how previous barriers to sourcing and unifying data are eliminated. Second, extensible data pipelines. As you gain frictionless access to a broader set of data through the Data Cloud, Snowflakes platform brings additional capabilities and extensibility to your data pipelines, simplifying data ingestion, and transformation. Third, data governance. The Data Cloud eliminates silos and breaks down barriers and in a world where data collaboration is the norm, the importance of data governance is ratified and elevated. We'll share new advancements to support how the world's most demanding organizations mobilize your data while maintaining high standards of compliance and governance. Finally, our fourth area focuses on platform performance and capabilities. We remain laser focused on continuing to lead with the most performant and capable data platform. We have some exciting news to share about the core engine of Snowflake. As always, we love showing you Snowflake in action, and we prepared some demos for you. Also, we'll keep coming back to the fact that one of the characteristics of Snowflake that we're proud as staff is that we offer a single platform from which you can operate all of your data workloads, across clouds and across regions, which workloads you may ask, specifically, data warehousing, data lake, data science, data engineering, data applications, and data sharing. Snowflake makes it possible to mobilize all your data in service of your business without the cost, complexity and overhead of managing multiple systems, tools and vendors. Let's dive in. As you heard from Frank, the Data Cloud offers a unique capability to connect organizations and create collaboration and innovation across industries fueled by data. The Snowflake data marketplace is the gateway to the Data Cloud, providing visibility for organizations to browse and discover data that can help them make better decisions. For data providers on the marketplace, there is a new opportunity to reach new customers, create new revenue streams, and radically decrease the effort and time to data delivery. Our marketplace dramatically reduces the friction of sharing and collaborating with data opening up new possibilities to all participants in the Data Cloud. We introduced the Snowflake data marketplace in 2019. And it is now home to over 100 data providers, with half of them having joined the marketplace in the last four months. Since our most recent product announcements in June, we have continued broadening the availability of the data marketplace, across regions and across clouds. Our data marketplace provides the opportunity for data providers to reach consumers across cloud and regional boundaries. A critical aspect of the Data Cloud is that we envisioned organizations collaborating not just in terms of data, but also data powered applications and services. Think of instances where a provider doesn't want to open access to the entirety of a data set, but wants to provide access to business logic that has access and leverages such data set. That is what we call data services. And we want Snowflake to be the platform of choice for developing discovering and consuming such rich building blocks. To see How the data marketplace comes to live, and in particular one of these data services, let's jump into a demo. For all of our demos today, we're going to put ourselves in the shoes of a fictional global insurance company. We've called it Insureco. Insurance is a data intensive and highly regulated industry. Having the right access control and insight from data is core to every insurance company's success. I'm going to turn it over to Prasanna to show how the Snowflake data marketplace can solve a data discoverability and access problem. >> Let's look at how Insureco can leverage data and data services from the Snowflake data marketplace and use it in conjunction with its own data in the Data Cloud to do three things, better detect fraudulent claims, arm its agents with the right information, and benchmark business health against competition. Let's start with detecting fraudulent claims. I'm an analyst in the Claims Department. I have auto claims data in my account. I can see there are 2000 auto claims, many of these submitted by auto body shops. I need to determine if they are valid and legitimate. In particular, could some of these be insurance fraud? By going to the Snowflake data marketplace where numerous data providers and data service providers can list their offerings, I find the quantifying data service. It uses a combination of external data sources and predictive risk typology models to inform the risk level of an organization. Quantifying external sources include sanctions and blacklists, negative news, social media, and real time search engine results. That's a wealth of data and models built on that data which we don't have internally. So I'd like to use Quantifind to determine a fraud risk score for each auto body shop that has submitted a claim. First, the Snowflake data marketplace made it really easy for me to discover a data service like this. Without the data marketplace, finding such a service would be a lengthy ad hoc process of doing web searches and asking around. Second, once I find Quantifind, I can use Quantifind service against my own data in three simple steps using data sharing. I create a table with the names and addresses of auto body shops that have submitted claims. I then share the table with Quantifind to start the risk assessment. Quantifind does the risk scoring and shares the data back with me. Quantifind uses external functions which we introduced in June to get results from their risk prediction models. Without Snowflake data sharing, we would have had to contact Quantifind to understand what format they wanted the data in, then extract this data into a file, FTP the file to Quantifind, wait for the results, then ingest the results back into our systems for them to be usable. Or I would have had to write code to call Quantifinds API. All of that would have taken days. In contrast, with data sharing, I can set this up in minutes. What's more, now that I have set this up, as new claims are added in the future, they will automatically leverage Quantifind's data service. I view the scores returned by Quantifind and see the two entities in my claims data have a high score for insurance fraud risk. I open up the link returned by Quantifind to read more, and find that this organization has been involved in an insurance crime ring. Looks like that is a claim that we won't be approving. Using the Quantifind data service through the Snowflake data marketplace gives me access to a risk scoring capability that we don't have in house without having to call custom APIs. For a provider like Quantifind this drives new leads and monetization opportunities. Now that I have identified potentially fraudulent claims, let's move on to the second part. I would like to share this fraud risk information with the agents who sold the corresponding policies. To do this, I need two things. First, I need to find the agents who sold these policies. Then I need to share with these agents the fraud risk information that we got from Quantifind. But I want to share it such that each agent only sees the fraud risk information corresponding to claims for policies that they wrote. To find agents who sold these policies, I need to look up our Salesforce data. I can find this easily within Insureco's internal data exchange. I see there's a listing with Salesforce data. Our sales Ops team has published this listing so I know it's our officially blessed data set, and I can immediately access it from my Snowflake account without copying any data or having to set up ETL. I can now join Salesforce data with my claims to identify the agents for the policies that were flagged to have fraudulent claims. I also have the Snowflake account information for each agent. Next, I create a secure view that joins on an entitlements table, such that each agent can only see the rows corresponding to policies that they have sold. I then share this directly with the agents. This share contains the secure view that I created with the names of the auto body shops, and the fraud risk identified by Quantifind. Finally, let's move on to the third and last part. Now that I have detected potentially fraudulent claims, I'm going to move on to building a dashboard that our executives have been asking for. They want to see how Insureco compares against other auto insurance companies on key metrics, like total claims paid out for the auto insurance line of business nationwide. I go to the Snowflake data marketplace and find SNL U.S. Insurance Statutory Data from SNP. This data is included with Insureco's existing subscription with SMP so when I request access to it, SMP can immediately share this data with me through Snowflake data sharing. I create a virtual database from the share, and I'm ready to query this data, no ETL needed. And since this is a virtual database, pointing to the original data in SNP Snowflake account, I have access to the latest data as it arrives in SNPs account. I see that the SNL U.S. Insurance Statutory Data from SNP has data on assets, premiums earned and claims paid out by each us insurance company in 2019. This data is broken up by line of business and geography and in many cases goes beyond the data that would be available from public financial filings. This is exactly the data I need. I identify a subset of comparable insurance companies whose net total assets are within 20% of Insureco's, and whose lines of business are similar to ours. I can now create a Snow site dashboard that compares Insureco against similar insurance companies on key metrics, like net earned premiums, and net claims paid out in 2019 for auto insurance. I can see that while we are below median our net earned premiums, we are doing better than our competition on total claims paid out in 2019, which could be a reflection of our improved claims handling and fraud detection. That's a good insight that I can share with our executives. In summary, the Data Cloud enabled me to do three key things. First, seamlessly fine data and data services that I need to do my job, be it an external data service like Quantifind and external data set from SNP or internal data from Insureco's data exchange. Second, get immediate live access to this data. And third, control and manage collaboration around this data. With Snowflake, I can mobilize data and data services across my business ecosystem in just minutes. >> Thank you Prasanna. Now I want to turn our focus to extensible data pipelines. We believe there are two different and important ways of making Snowflakes platform highly extensible. First, by enabling teams to leverage services or business logic that live outside of Snowflake interacting with data within Snowflake. We do this through a feature called external functions, a mechanism to conveniently bring data to where the computation is. We announced this feature for calling regional endpoints via AWS gateway in June, and it's currently available in public preview. We are also now in public preview supporting Azure API management and will soon support Google API gateway and AWS private endpoints. The second extensibility mechanism does the converse. It brings the computation to Snowflake to run closer to the data. We will do this by enabling the creation of functions and procedures in SQL, Java, Scala or Python ultimately providing choice based on the programming language preference for you or your organization. You will see Java, Scala and Python available through private and public previews in the future. The possibilities enabled by these extensibility features are broad and powerful. However, our commitment to being a great platform for data engineers, data scientists and developers goes far beyond programming language. Today, I am delighted to announce Snowpark a family of libraries that will bring a new experience to programming data in Snowflake. Snowpark enables you to write code directly against Snowflake in a way that is deeply integrated into the languages I mentioned earlier, using familiar concepts like DataFrames. But the most important aspect of Snowpark is that it has been designed and optimized to leverage the Snowflake engine with its main characteristics and benefits, performance, reliability, and scalability with near zero maintenance. Think of the power of a declarative SQL statements available through a well known API in Scala, Java or Python, all these against data governed in your core data platform. We believe Snowpark will be transformative for data programmability. I'd like to introduce Sri to showcase how our fictitious insurance company Insureco will be able to take advantage of the Snowpark API for data science workloads. >> Thanks Christian, hi, everyone? I'm Sri Chintala, a product manager at Snowflake focused on extensible data pipelines. And today, I'm very excited to show you a preview of Snowpark. In our first demo, we saw how Insureco could identify potentially fraudulent claims. Now, for all the valid claims InsureCo wants to ensure they're providing excellent customer service. To do that, they put in place a system to transcribe all of their customer calls, so they can look for patterns. A simple thing they'd like to do is detect the sentiment of each call so they can tell which calls were good and which were problematic. They can then better train their claim agents for challenging calls. Let's take a quick look at the work they've done so far. InsureCo's data science team use Snowflakes external functions to quickly and easily train a machine learning model in H2O AI. Snowflake has direct integrations with H2O and many other data science providers giving Insureco the flexibility to use a wide variety of data science libraries frameworks or tools to train their model. Now that the team has a custom trained sentiment model tailored to their specific claims data, let's see how a data engineer at Insureco can use Snowpark to build a data pipeline that scores customer call logs using the model hosted right inside of Snowflake. As you can see, we have the transcribed call logs stored in the customer call logs table inside Snowflake. Now, as a data engineer trained in Scala, and used to working with systems like Spark and Pandas, I want to use familiar programming concepts to build my pipeline. Snowpark solves for this by letting me use popular programming languages like Java or Scala. It also provides familiar concepts in APIs, such as the DataFrame abstraction, optimized to leverage and run natively on the Snowflake engine. So here I am in my ID, where I've written a simple scalar program using the Snowpark libraries. The first step in using the Snowpark API is establishing a session with Snowflake. I use the session builder object and specify the required details to connect. Now, I can create a DataFrame for the data in the transcripts column of the customer call logs table. As you can see, the Snowpark API provides native language constructs for data manipulation. Here, I use the Select method provided by the API to specify the column names to return rather than writing select transcripts as a string. By using the native language constructs provided by the API, I benefit from features like IntelliSense and type checking. Here you can see some of the other common methods that the DataFrame class offers like filters like join and others. Next, I define a get sentiment user defined function that will return a sentiment score for an input string by using our pre trained H2O model. From the UDF, we call the score method that initializes and runs the sentiment model. I've built this helper into a Java file, which along with the model object and license are added as dependencies that Snowpark will send to Snowflake for execution. As a developer, this is all programming that I'm familiar with. We can now call our get sentiment function on the transcripts column of the DataFrame and right back the results of the score transcripts to a new target table. Let's run this code and switch over to Snowflake to see the score data and also all the work that Snowpark has done for us on the back end. If I do a select star from scored logs, we can see the sentiment score of each call right alongside the transcript. With Snowpark all the logic in my program is pushed down into Snowflake. I can see in the query history that Snowpark has created a temporary Java function to host the pre trained H20 model, and that the model is running right in my Snowflake warehouse. Snowpark has allowed us to do something completely new in Snowflake. Let's recap what we saw. With Snowpark, Insureco was able to use their preferred programming language, Scala and use the familiar DataFrame constructs to score data using a machine learning model. With support for Java UDFs, they were able to run a train model natively within Snowflake. And finally, we saw how Snowpark executed computationally intensive data science workloads right within Snowflake. This simplifies Insureco's data pipeline architecture, as it reduces the number of additional systems they have to manage. We hope that extensibility with Scala, Java and Snowpark will enable our users to work with Snowflake in their preferred way while keeping the architecture simple. We are very excited to see how you use Snowpark to extend your data pipelines. Thank you for watching and with that back to you, Christian. >> Thank you Sri. You saw how Sri could utilize Snowpark to efficiently perform advanced sentiment analysis. But of course, if this use case was important to your business, you don't want to fully automate this pipeline and analysis. Imagine being able to do all of the following in Snowflake, your pipeline could start far upstream of what you saw in the demo. By storing your actual customer care call recordings in Snowflake, you may notice that this is new for Snowflake. We'll come back to the idea of storing unstructured data in Snowflake at the end of my talk today. Once you have the data in Snowflake, you can use our streams and past capabilities to call an external function to transcribe these files. To simplify this flow even further, we plan to introduce a serverless execution model for tasks where Snowflake can automatically size and manage resources for you. After this step, you can use the same serverless task to execute sentiment scoring of your transcript as shown in the demo with incremental processing as each transcript is created. Finally, you can surface the sentiment score either via snow side, or through any tool you use to share insights throughout your organization. In this example, you see data being transformed from a raw asset into a higher level of information that can drive business action, all fully automated all in Snowflake. Turning back to Insureco, you know how important data governance is for any major enterprise but particularly for one in this industry. Insurance companies manage highly sensitive data about their customers, and have some of the strictest requirements for storing and tracking such data, as well as managing and governing it. At Snowflake, we think about governance as the ability to know your data, manage your data and collaborate with confidence. As you saw in our first demo, the Data Cloud enables seamless collaboration, control and access to data via the Snowflake data marketplace. And companies may set up their own data exchanges to create similar collaboration and control across their ecosystems. In future releases, we expect to deliver enhancements that create more visibility into who has access to what data and provide usage information of that data. Today, we are announcing a new capability to help Snowflake users better know and organize your data. This is our new tagging framework. Tagging in Snowflake will allow user defined metadata to be attached to a variety of objects. We built a broad and robust framework with powerful implications. Think of the ability to annotate warehouses with cost center information for tracking or think of annotating tables and columns with sensitivity classifications. Our tagging capability will enable the creation of companies specific business annotations for objects in Snowflakes platform. Another key aspect of data governance in Snowflake is our policy based framework where you specify what you want to be true about your data, and Snowflake enforces those policies. We announced one such policy earlier this year, our dynamic data masking capability, which is now available in public preview. Today, we are announcing a great complimentary a policy to achieve row level security to see how role level security can enhance InsureCo's ability to govern and secure data. I'll hand it over to Artin for a demo. >> Hello, I'm Martin Avanes, Director of Product Management for Snowflake. As Christian has already mentioned, the rise of the Data Cloud greatly accelerates the ability to access and share diverse data leading to greater data collaboration across teams and organizations. Controlling data access with ease and ensuring compliance at the same time is top of mind for users. Today, I'm thrilled to announce our new row access policies that will allow users to define various rules for accessing data in the Data Cloud. Let's check back in with Insureco to see some of these in action and highlight how those work with other existing policies one can define in Snowflake. Because Insureco is a multinational company, it has to take extra measures to ensure data across geographic boundaries is protected to meet a wide range of compliance requirements. The Insureco team has been asked to segment what data sales team members have access to based on where they are regionally. In order to make this possible, they will use Snowflakes row access policies to implement row level security. We are going to apply policies for three Insureco's sales team members with different roles. Alice, an executive must be able to view sales data from both North America and Europe. Alex in North America sales manager will be limited to access sales data from North America only. And Jordan, a Europe sales manager will be limited to access sales data from Europe only. As a first step, the security administrator needs to create a lookup table that will be used to determine which data is accessible based on each role. As you can see, the lookup table has the row and their associated region, both of which will be used to apply policies that we will now create. Row access policies are implemented using standard SQL syntax to make it easy for administrators to create policies like the one our administrators looking to implement. And similar to masking policies, row access policies are leveraging our flexible and expressive policy language. In this demo, our admin users to create a row access policy that uses the row and region of a user to determine what row level data they have access to when queries are executed. When users queries are executed against the table protected by such a row access policy, Snowflakes query engine will dynamically generate and apply the corresponding predicate to filter out rows the user is not supposed to see. With the policy now created, let's log in as our Sales Users and see if it worked. Recall that as a sales executive, Alice should have the ability to see all rows from North America and Europe. Sure enough, when she runs her query, she can see all rows so we know the policy is working for her. You may also have noticed that some columns are showing masked data. That's because our administrator's also using our previously announced data masking capabilities to protect these data attributes for everyone in sales. When we look at our other users, we should notice that the same columns are also masked for them. As you see, you can easily combine masking and row access policies on the same data sets. Now let's look at Alex, our North American sales manager. Alex runs to st Korea's Alice, row access policies leverage the lookup table to dynamically generate the corresponding predicates for this query. The result is we see that only the data for North America is visible. Notice too that the same columns are still masked. Finally, let's try Jordan, our European sales manager. Jordan runs the query and the result is only the data for Europe with the same columns also masked. And you reintroduced masking policies, today you saw row access policies in action. And similar to our masking policies, row access policies in Snowflake will be accepted Hands of capability integrated seamlessly across all of Snowflake everywhere you expect it to work it does. If you're accessing data stored in external tables, semi structured JSON data, or building data pipelines via streams or plan to leverage Snowflakes data sharing functionality, you will be able to implement complex row access policies for all these diverse use cases and workloads within Snowflake. And with Snowflakes unique replication feature, you can instantly apply these new policies consistently to all of your Snowflake accounts, ensuring governance across regions and even across different clouds. In the future, we plan to demonstrate how to combine our new tagging capabilities with Snowflakes policies, allowing advanced audit and enforcing those policies with ease. And with that, let's pass it back over to Christian. >> Thank you Artin. We look forward to making this new tagging and row level security capabilities available in private preview in the coming months. One last note on the broad area of data governance. A big aspect of the Data Cloud is the mobilization of data to be used across organizations. At the same time, privacy is an important consideration to ensure the protection of sensitive, personal or potentially identifying information. We're working on a set of product capabilities to simplify compliance with privacy related regulatory requirements, and simplify the process of collaborating with data while preserving privacy. Earlier this year, Snowflake acquired a company called Crypto Numerix to accelerate our efforts on this front, including the identification and anonymization of sensitive data. We look forward to sharing more details in the future. We've just shown you three demos of new and exciting ways to use Snowflake. However, I want to also remind you that our commitment to the core platform has never been greater. As you move workloads on to Snowflake, we know you expect exceptional price performance and continued delivery of new capabilities that benefit every workload. On price performance, we continue to drive performance improvements throughout the platform. Let me give you an example comparing an identical set of customers submitted queries that ran both in August of 2019, and August of 2020. If I look at the set of queries that took more than one second to compile 72% of those improved by at least 50%. When we make these improvements, execution time goes down. And by implication, the required compute time is also reduced. Based on our pricing model to charge for what you use, performance improvements not only deliver faster insights, but also translate into cost savings for you. In addition, we have two new major announcements on performance to share today. First, we announced our search optimization service during our June event. This service currently in public preview can be enabled on a table by table basis, and is able to dramatically accelerate lookup queries on any column, particularly those not used as clustering columns. We initially support equality comparisons only, and today we're announcing expanded support for searches in values, such as pattern matching within strings. This will unlock a number of additional use cases such as analytics on logs data for performance or security purposes. This expanded support is currently being validated by a few customers in private preview, and will be broadly available in the future. Second, I'd like to introduce a new service that will be in private preview in a future release. The query acceleration service. This new feature will automatically identify and scale out parts of a query that could benefit from additional resources and parallelization. This means that you will be able to realize dramatic improvements in performance. This is especially impactful for data science and other scan intensive workloads. Using this feature is pretty simple. You define a maximum amount of additional resources that can be recruited by a warehouse for acceleration, and the service decides when it would be beneficial to use them. Given enough resources, a query over a massive data set can see orders of magnitude performance improvement compared to the same query without acceleration enabled. In our own usage of Snowflake, we saw a common query go 15 times faster without changing the warehouse size. All of these performance enhancements are extremely exciting, and you will see continued improvements in the future. We love to innovate and continuously raise the bar on what's possible. More important, we love seeing our customers adopt and benefit from our new capabilities. In June, we announced a number of previews, and we continue to roll those features out and see tremendous adoption, even before reaching general availability. Two have those announcements were the introduction of our geospatial support and policies for dynamic data masking. Both of these features are currently in use by hundreds of customers. The number of tables using our new geography data type recently crossed the hundred thousand mark, and the number of columns with masking policies also recently crossed the same hundred thousand mark. This momentum and level of adoption since our announcements in June is phenomenal. I have one last announcement to highlight today. In 2014, Snowflake transformed the world of data management and analytics by providing a single platform with first class support for both structured and semi structured data. Today, we are announcing that Snowflake will be adding support for unstructured data on that same platform. Think of the abilities of Snowflake used to store access and share files. As an example, would you like to leverage the power of SQL to reason through a set of image files. We have a few customers as early adopters and we'll provide additional details in the future. With this, you will be able to leverage Snowflake to mobilize all your data in the Data Cloud. Our customers rely on Snowflake as the data platform for every part of their business. However, the vision and potential of Snowflake is actually much bigger than the four walls of any organization. Snowflake has created a Data Cloud a data connected network with a vision where any Snowflake customer can leverage and mobilize the world's data. Whether it's data sets, or data services from traditional data providers for SaaS vendors, our marketplace creates opportunities for you and raises the bar in terms of what is possible. As examples, you can unify data across your supply chain to accelerate your time and quality to market. You can build entirely new revenue streams, or collaborate with a consortium on data for good. The possibilities are endless. Every company has the opportunity to gain richer insights, build greater products and deliver better services by reaching beyond the data that he owns. Our vision is to enable every company to leverage the world's data through seamless and governing access. Snowflake is your window into this data network into this broader opportunity. Welcome to the Data Cloud. (upbeat music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>Everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online. Their virtual conference. I'm John Furrier here in the Cube studio for a conversation with Matt Garman, Vice president. Sales amount of AWS. We're here with our quarantine crew. Matt. Thanks for joining me. I know your remote as well. We're living in a virtualized world. Thanks for coming on. AWS Summit is now online. You're running sales and market for the company. This is really caught a lot of companies by surprise this this situation sheltering in place. It's highlighted a lot of scale problems. One of them is events. So we're here at the AWS Summit online, and you guys are still pulling it off A lot of content. Great to see you. >>Great. Thanks. Thanks for having me. >>So before we get into some of the announcements in the customer focus things that you guys are doing, you and I both met. We did an interview when you were running the EEC to you've been with Amazon for a long time, Got a storied history. You were there from one E. C two launched saw Amazon grow. This really kind of ties into some reporting that we've been doing where cloud native a scale of what advice became it really was a game changer and that showed the at scale opportunity for startups. And now the enterprise. This covert 19 is really showing companies and individuals their living it, of being disrupted, where the Internet and large scale tools and technologies can help them, but also exposes gaps in their lives or in companies, cases, things like provisioning VP ends. Maybe they didn't figure out 100% would be at home, but then going forward, the applications are now thinking about this new virtualized world. Even when it comes back to normal, be somewhat of a hybrid, you know, integrated world. This will put pressure on you guys as Amazon to build more capacity like you did with the see too, but at a whole nother level. So I want to get into that and more. But this covert 19 really has changed the game for the world. What do you guys see in your customer base? This is a big part of the conversation. What's going on? >>Thanks, John, And you're right. This is an unprecedented time for us, and on day eight of us as well as our customers are all trying to figure it out. I think you know, part of part of what we've seen from our customers as we talk out there, whether they're public service or private customers is is really that that demands that they're seeing from their customer bases are rapidly changing. Some customers have their businesses have seen much fewer lower demands and others before. But others they're seeing 10 21 100 x more business than they were before. And what we're seeing is that those customers that have their business running in the cloud are able to handle that on quickly. Our ableto adapt and change and grow with their changing customer base, and sometimes that's internal. Sometimes you're like you said. That's because, um, they need to scale up their VPN or they need to scale up their virtual workstations. Other times, it's customers who maybe they run a large call center business. But their call center folks are no longer able to come into the office, and they quickly spin up a virtual call center. We've seen our Amazon connect business really, really take off as customers quickly united to figure out how they can manage the actually increased call Williams they're seeing, but in a virtual location. And finally, we're just seeing some customers, whether they're from entertainment from communication or online education. Many of these businesses they're scaling rapidly wouldn't have been able to do it if they're running in their own data center. But because they're in the cloud, they're able to quickly spin up more instances, spin up more storage and meet the demands of their customers. So I think it's been nice to see. Fortunately for us, we've had many years, as you mentioned, I used to run the C two team on, and we've been thinking for over a decade about how we really manage that supply chain. How do we ensure that we're able to handle rapidly scaling? So we've really optimized our supply chain Unfortunately, in a good position where we can continue to operate, continue to scale and continue to handle the demands are growing customer base even unprecedented times like this. >>You know, you mentioned that I want to get into that concept. You wrote a block post the other day on the Amazon Day one blawg keeping organizations running during Covad 19 and you kind of teased out this point about average connected time. And if you think about this crisis, this really is that the true test for scale and elasticity of having that cloud model and some of the clouds have not done as well as Amazon. There's been some stories out there. Google and Microsoft has had the up time you guys had, but this really has been the future pulled forward. So you guys have a lot of customers like Netflix like slack, that are really taken advantage of this. This is the true test of cloud and only the beginning again. Like I said, this is going to show a lot of gaps in most other traditional enterprises. But this highlights the tests that you guys were waiting for. I won't say that you're waiting for a crisis, but cloud, this is ultimately the test. Your thoughts on Netflix, who Lou Slack, A bunch of other names land and he throws the slide. But we have re invent. But the >>big I think if you look at, obviously we have a lot more time at home, right? I'm at home here in Seattle. A lot of us are spending more time at home. And so a lot of the streaming services like you said, the Netflix is the who lose that Disney Pluses of the world. Also games. Think about how many kids were playing fortnight or playing a or the video games. A lot of those businesses have really seen an increase in their demand on they have been able to just seamlessly scale along with eight of us on the work side. Think about everybody from slack that runs entirely on AWS Zoom, who runs the vast majority of their infrastructure and aws all of these communication on work from home capabilities. These are all running on AWS enabled many of the scale, and we think all of our kids, our kids are all trying to figure out what a school look like. You don't actually go to school. I was talking from the team at Blackboard. They've seen a 10 sometimes even 100 X increase in their business. America will just seamlessly scale up on demand. I mean, really overnight just exploded. >>I was on Twitter just the other day, talking with some folks because the whole jet, I think, is going down. I was gonna wing of my normal commentary. Um and this is the public sector challenge as well. You mentioned schools. These air traditionally? No, I t or enterprise like chops. They need scale now. They need it fast. They have to stand up. I imagine this is the kind of scenario that this is also gonna hit the small, medium sized enterprises as well as some of the big ones. So the big guys have legacy problems, data silos, whatever we've had, great. Comes with some of your team members there. But that's just one sector. You got small, medium size enterprises that don't have any I t public sector and education. They're gonna be in market in months, if not >>tomorrow. Public sector is a super interesting one. And, frankly, our public sector team I don't know that they have slept in the past three months working to try to help governments, both the United States and internationally, everything from me. If you think about it, our our unemployment systems in states across the United States have gone from something like 3% unemployment claims to 15% unemployment claims within a two month period. Those systems are not meant to scale like that, and they reached out to us pretty quickly to see how we could help them start to scale. You think about some of the the systems that are trying to send out checks to people, systems that are trying to send out small making loans to folks. We've been really working deeply with many of those government agencies to try to figure out how we can get the money in the hands of the individuals that need it as quickly as possible and really help those legacy systems. Sometimes they're built on, you know, legacy databases or Oracle's or Microsoft sequel systems. And those things just aren't scaling. And they're trying to figure out How can they get to a more modern architecture that can really keep scaling with the needs of the new demand that they're reaching? It's just something that didn't anticipate before. >>Yeah, and I think your customers, as you're now going to be overseeing the larger global organization, sales and marketing, um, it's not like you guys are preaching to the customers because you're living through the same crisis in an environment that they are. You certainly can align with their empathy and certainly help them solve problems. But now we're in a business climate where we're seeing unemployment numbers of massive numbers. Usually companies come out of these challenges, and we think it could be highly accelerated on an upward trajectory, flat or negative. In 2008. That crisis we saw the winners come out of that one. You guys rode that wave with AWS. Easy to can. You know that world now coming out of this next pandemic, it's going to be hybrid or virtualization of meat of life. >>How are >>you leading your team? How are you talking to customers? I'm out of this empathy, but you got to run an organization. You have to still sell services and market your products You got reinvent was a physical event. I mean, >>these air, >>huge challenges you're living them to. What's your >>take on >>all this? >>Yeah, part of I think you know, in my new role. And as you mentioned, I used to run the computing with AWS, including easy to many compute services for about 13 years before coming and running. Now the sales and marketing, or AWS >>and And in >>that role, you know, a lot of what I would think about is how we really help our customers understand how critical it >>is to the >>her hair. The cloud gives you just so much more flexibility, so much more agility. And we would you know, there's a bunch of the early adopters would lead into that and really got it. And once they got onto the cloud, they saw their innovation level went up, their agility goes up all those things. But, you know, there was still a lot of folks that were they're interested. I mean, we obviously have, ah, decent sized business today and many, many millions of customers that are using the cloud today. But some of them are have been slower to kind of fully adopt and really move all of their business critical workloads to the cloud. I firmly believe that coming out of this crisis, you're gonna have two types of of businesses. You're gonna have some that just go into their shell, right? They're just going to say I'm just gonna try to survive. I'm just gonna try that to get by, going to try to conserve every little bit of something. I can just protect what I have. You know, I don't think those are long term. I'm not optimistic of. Those are going to be the businesses that right. I think every time you see a crisis, you have businesses that lean into it. They're smart about it. They think about long term. What are the things that are going to help me compete in this new world? And I think Cloud is gonna be one of those things. We've talked to everybody from airlines to traditional Fortune 500 enterprises, and they see that like they're still leaning into the cloud, even even airlines. No one's been hit harder than the airlines. And even I've talked to several executives and airlines their saying Look, my cloud initiative, that's the thing I'm not cutting. I'm gonna cut everything else. But this is the thing that's gonna let me succeed when I really get into that new world. And so I really think you're going to see some of those folks that maybe you were hesitant before so again in the next 34 years. Maybe I'll get to the cloud. I really think that they're going to start to lead in because they're going to realize if my competitors or in the cloud and I'm not that is gonna be a significant disadvantage and, you know, knock on wood. Hopefully, there's no other global pandemic, but they have to deal with. But I think it just really highlights any uncertainty in the world. There's going to be differences and they just are unable to deal with to the flexibility and the scale that they want to go up and down, by the way that they're unable to really handle whatever the world throws up. But I think we're going to be living in a continually uncertain environment. >>Yeah, I definitely would agree with you, and I think it's going to get back to normal at some point, but even is gonna have an impact into 2021 as many people are kind of figuring out the window, people saying no spring 2021 Maybe, you know, there we started get some semblance of normality the way it was, but still that environment and this brings up the whole summit online that you guys are doing. Your summits have been a great set of events. We've covered many of them with the real key physical cube. Now we're doing the Virtual Cube. They've been a practitioner and user, the developer builder event. It's a free event. Nutrition had. Now you have them all over the world. They're going on virtual. People still need to build out these projects. There's still a demand, and some projects are being cut. Some are, as you guys look over the horizon with your customer base conversations around what to fund whatnot the fund. As you mentioned. What are some of the things that you're seeing and recommending to customers that they should continue to double down on? Because smart manager is going to step back and say, Hey, I can see some gaps. We're going to double down on that and we're gonna kill that. We're gonna move this over here. There's going to be a reinvention and growth strategy that they have to figure out quickly. There's no yet playbooks emerging, but it's clear out the video virtual interactions. But those projects get double down your thoughts on the customer builders out there. >>I think that's absolutely right in it and expands every industry you can think about. Think about, you know, I was talking Teoh several customers in the healthcare space. And how long has it been five years that people have been touting that telemedicine is really gonna be that thing that eventually comes and eventually becomes a big thing? This has really accelerated that, such that. Now I've talked to probably dozens and dozens of people who, for the very first time of talk to their doctors over being their cell phone because they don't want to go into the hospital for you're getting, you know, six or something like that. Then they just have a minor medical things you need to do. Telemedicine is one of those things that is really taking off, and there's been really enabling, frankly, that customers have been able to do telemedicine. That's really helps, knows that that wanted to stay safe but also get good medical advice. I think that's just one example where we're gonna continue to see this go. I think coming out of this the other thing, our custom, lot of our customers were thinking about, and anytime you really go into an uncertain economic world. You want to think about capital preservation. Now is not the time you want to go spend money to build your own data center or to buy your own servers. If ever there was a time where the cloud makes the most sense, capital preservation >>is E >>particularly we don't know if there's gonna be an economic recession. We don't know how long this is going to take. All businesses, whether they're severely impacted, should be really thinking about that capital preservation. But they've also got to be thinking about how they innovate. You know, I've talked to ah, popular ride sharing customer the other day, and they were talking about how ride sharing his way down. But they're still using this as a time to lean forward into innovation because they know coming out of this, they want to be ahead of where their competitors are going to be. And they really want to use this as an opportunity to take their own internal teams, focus them on where they think the biggest potential is gonna be. And then once the economy turns around people out and about again, they can hit the accelerator and really take off. So I think that's really how a lot of our customers were thinking about situation where they're right now. >>You know, you guys haven't had a steep learning curve over the years with cloud and cloud scale. I think as the world comes in, the human capital piece becomes interesting, too, not just on of spending with money, monetary, the human capital to work, how people are contributing. So this brings up the whole reinvention. It's funny to watch as people are forced with these first generation problems of how to make things digital, how to get scale going. You have people who have learned it, have a learning curve, and again there's no compression algorithm for experience, as you guys like to point out. So >>this is >>creating this kind of like, How do I change the roles of my company? And so I want to get your thoughts because we're looking for proof points because a lot of the answers are not yet evolved and usually things they're not understood before they become mainstream. But people have to react really fast. What are some examples? Can you give around how Cove in applications are rolling out because that's truly a indicator in my mind of what people are doing with the cloud. Because Covert was an instant response. We've already interviewed a few folks that are on Amazon around Covitz Solutions, where the standing of either analytics or doing some things Could you use the covert of example of how rapid deployment or reinvention of data or business models our rendering themselves? >>Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a couple of different what one is. But for the very first thing that most people look at is how do we get data like we just need to find data around this space. And so we've worked with a number of partners and customers on How do we really go, help build Data Lakes in the cloud and coming getting all that data in one place so that both governments as well as private enterprises, can really start to think of that Data slices in different ways on get to look at what is the actual data, whether it's one of the number of hospital that's available one of the number of tests that are happening, you know, one of the number of oh infections that we're seeing, where the rate of change, etcetera. We also work with a number of our analytics partners, and we have a wide range of analytics partners that are really taking this as an opportunity where they can rapidly then take that data and slice it a number of different ways to try to help understand how they respond. I think you know, the first part of that was on the healthcare side where folks were saying, Where do we need enough ventilators? Where we where do we need to go? Build hospitals? Are we start to identify hot spots right where I see if you can really look at kind of second order derivatives of kind of changes, and you can look at it close enough, you could say, Oh, there's a hot spot popping up in this particular area and eventually you know, if we can get some better data, contract tracing and things like that where you can open up the economy and still have, you know very quickly identify where a hot spot might be a merging. Those are the types of data pieces that you know what the right levels of of security and data privacy, but with but with access to that data, we can get a handle on how some of these things are happening. Then I think you go and you look at s So that's that's kind of some of the data analytics pieces. Right? Then you also go look at what are folks doing on the testing side? And I think, you know, there's a lot of discussion about how well testing is done. I think we all >>know that there >>are ways that we always thought maybe it was a little bit further along with it is, but there's a number of private places that are actually really speeding up. I think this is one of the big areas that Amazon best, right? And I don't I don't know. We'll see if we are able to get there faster than some of the other places, but we we see a real need for testing. Testing is one of those such a critical component if we could do rapid testing, frequent testing, both for our own employees. But frankly, for for all the industries that we all rely on, I have come to rely on, particularly in this virtual world. We know that the faster we can get testing and more reliable, we can get testing. The better we are able to then isolate, get people to self quarantine and really kind of control that mass spread >>of the >>disease. >>I know >>you know >>healthcare is interesting. One of the emerging things we're seeing coming out of the summit here and some of the conversations we had is how the enterprise has always been kind of a hard environment to find stuff. As people live at home and working at home, working remotely, working in remote teams, the idea of searching for stuff becomes interesting. So you guys announced the general availability, Kendra. The timing couldn't have been better for that, because that's really giving you a Google like vibe feel for funding information. But it's really an integration play under the covers, so I think that's the kind of trend that we're seeing. We're seeing also startups putting up APS out there so you see a lot of activity. That's kind of in line with this. That you guys are announcing anything >>at any >>update on the Kendra or >>Canada is fantastic, and it's it's really I think struck a nerve with folks where the traditional way of thinking about search, particularly internal for internal Internets just doesn't work. You know how many hits you get and how many millions of people across billions and billions of people on the Internet that that model works on the Internet. You might be looking for very specific things. Um, and with machine learning, we're able to tell what is the intent of the requests that people are looking for and take you to the right place so that if you say you know one of the hours of my help desk, there's a very specific page that you're looking for, which is this number. In fact, you're not looking for a job to go to. You're not looking for information about help desks. You're looking for the actual hours of my internal help desks, particularly probably from my building. And as we do build these ML models that can start to learn on how your Internet works and how people are thinking about it and what's helpful or not, we've been able to improve an Internet search orders of magnitude. I've used it internally for our own. I'm instrumented it. It's night and day compared to what we used before was kind of your keyword search type of thing. So I think applying ML, particularly when people remote and really relying on resource, is like that where they can't just, you know, lean over to a cube next to them and say, Hey, we're still you know what time is the help desk open? >>I think getting breaking down the silos to just we build that abstraction layer a data leak really kind of makes a big difference. >>That's right. >>So final question for you as companies settle into the new realities that are upon them, what's the outlook for the rest of 2020 for you guys? And what do you say? That customers that are here on the online trying to consume the virtual content that they should be building out because you've got not just customers. You've got commercial customers, you got public sector and you got an ecosystem. You got partners out there who are building on top of AWS. Um, rolling this together. What's your message to them? What's on the outlook? >>2020 Number one. I encourage everyone to take advantage. I think In many ways, some of these virtual summits are great opportunity, maybe, for those were unable to travel to the summit or to be able to actually physically get there. It's a great opportunity to learn, really dive in trying to do some virtual labs really get in and understand some of the new features and functionality that are out there from a partner perspective. Many of the things that we're building, whether it's our outflow service that we just launched a couple of weeks ago, that helps us to really connects to our various partners into a data lake. As John was mentioning those air, these were really some of the things that you know, if you think about our broad swath of our partner ecosystem, encourage our customers to really look at all of the partners that are running on AWS who have great solutions. Like the Cube. You're looking for virtual events. They have. They have an awesome product you should check out, but we have a wide set of partners that will help you. Yeah, put together the virtual world that you all are trying to work through right now and encourage you just to learn >>I really appreciate the plug, actually, one for the cube. A new event Cloud. What? We're trying to figure it out. I think this kind of reminds me of a famous quote I heard on the queue, which is a notable one, is that everything in the future that is going to be invented was on Star Trek or Star Wars. So I assume we're gonna have video cameras and everyone's office, and we'll be able to go and talk to folks. So looking forward to again, standing up content, getting the content and connecting people. Thanks for spending >>the >>time out of your day to come in and talk with me and share your insights. And, ah, Amazon Summit Web services Summit online Virtual cube Virtual. Thanks for your time. Appreciate your insights. >>Great. Thank you. >>OK, Cube here. Virtual in our studio covering remotely all the top content out there covering AWS summit online. There's a whole new reality rolling it together. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

our Studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hey welcome back here ready Jeff Rick here with the cube we're in our pal 2 studios today for a cube conversation to talk about a pretty interesting topic right which is the security issue that is pervasive and needs to be baked in all over the place and combining that with networking and software to find networking which is often talked about as kind of the last area of really software-defined execution and a lot of activity around SD win so we're happy to have with us today from Fortin at John Madison he's the CMO and EVP of products for fortinet John great to see you you too and also joining us from Atlanta is Hilton styrsky he is the CIO of Crawford & Company Hilton great to see you as well so let's just jump into it big issue right Crawford & Company Hilton give us a little bit of the which you guys are and more importantly kind of what a distributed company that you are y SD win and when particularly is a pretty important piece of the equation absolutely SD wins very important to us as we look at growth so I'm a confident company we are 77 year old you asked in management's claims company we we haven't focus on restoring and enhancing lives businesses in communities in 2018 we processed about one and a half million claims they are translated into north of fifteen billion dollars in payments but more importantly when you think about the insurance space and really any highly transactional organization will go through a digital disruption and korfin and company is no difference and in particular with the culture of innovation that we have a profiling company we looking at all facets of the business to disrupt and that's our basic infrastructure all the way to the business process applications that interact with our customers and when we think about the network that's the lifeblood of our organization span in seven countries with almost 9,000 employees and NATO it touches every facet of our organization and our business and being on an innovative modern technology enables us to support the Scanlan growth that's invariably coming down the pipes in this industry thank you thanks for that summary and John over to you you know we got a lot of conferences as we go to your guys conference we go to RSA and security the topic because all these security needs to bake be baked in throughout the process it can't just be added on at the end and you guys have taken that to heart so tell us a little bit about you know your guys solution in this SD win space and how you're approaching it slightly differently yes he'll concern just about every company's going through this digital disruption and that means they really need to make sure that network is of high quality high speed can access the applications but most importantly is secure so what we do is make sure with all my networking gear and SDRAM being a specific example that security is totally integrated within that solution and you do it in a different way - right you're not just doing it with software but you've actually introduced you know a hardware component into this into this equation as well yeah well now obviously the software is still very important to make sure you can orchestrate and you've got the feature set but earlier this year we announced the the world's first sd1 ASIC which allows us to get that performance of the networking stack and security stack on a single appliance we're talking about five to 10 X performance and again allows the customer such as Crawford to run and networking and their security in that single appliance so help I'm curious from your perspective I have to say I feel sorry for CIOs cuz that you know as again we go to all these shows we walk around there's so much technology and in security specifically when you walk around RSA as the the granddaddy of all those conferences you know there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of vendors and I think my goodness how do you go through how do you evaluate so you know what do you do when you're looking for technology partners among this giant sea of potential opportunities and people telling you to do this that and the other you got to find a partner that's going to help you absolutely so I mean they're number of facets that come to that but first and foremost we take security and privacy not just security extremely or seriously hope it ends because of that we rely on our cyber team to help us make decisions and drive those discussion so these relationships are not just you know come about because of benefits that we see on white papers or interactions with the PIO they really are driven from our cyber organization in the indian research that they do envy attend products we're not just looking for a sexy brands name to put in our our branches in our data centers but we're really looking for a tried and tested product and it wasn't a network that really came down to our cyber team because of the integrated nature of the ESD way and the security applies it to em i'm curious in terms of the changing kind of government regulations you know ii had gdpr we've got the California Privacy Act has that impacted your you know kind of prioritization of security and privacy or has that always just been a top priority and that's just you know kind of another box to check yeah man it's always been there we haven't seen it impacted from a sigh from a networking perspective tea to date but as we think about applications we're looking for the flexibility in the application stack to adhere to GT bernini quite frankly any other regulatory control been in the insurance industry we are highly regulated and that type of scale and flexibility is something that we look to as we build new products more modern future and John to you I'm just curious you know some of the advantages of bringing these two things together to really bake the security and the SD win appliance what is that enable you to do that you couldn't do so much before well it's all about supporting the business and the applications so corporate for example you know obviously voice is very important to me they speak to a lot of people and branch offices video training their applications in the cloud and so bringing mass security and that networking together and accelerating it means they get a high quality of service to all the applications which are important to their business so what's next John what are some of the the things as you look forward and you see this this market to continuing to evolve you guys are really starting to take a real leadership position what are some of your priorities as you as you look forward and we're gonna flip the calendar here in just a few short months you know and definitely you know sd-1 an application on our appliance has exploded we just announced we're actually in the top three in terms of sd-1 benders globally what's coming next well I think what we call cloud on-ramp isn't very important where we provide specific routes and information to make sure we have even higher QoS of devices and users getting to the applications and I knew that on the land side of it was starting to roll out something called ST branch which gives you the same kind of fabric topology view control and workflow of access from Wi-Fi from Ethernet switching and we've also integrated nak network access control which gives you that visibility control of IOT devices great so I want it I want to give you the last word you know to share with your peers as they're going through this journey a lot of talk about digital transformation but when the rubber hits the road right you actually got to do do the things and do the small things that make a difference as you've gone through this and you've dealt the security you got a lot of remote branches this continuation around hybrid cloud and and distributed infrastructure what are some of the things on your top of mind and what would you share with some of your peers as they you know start to look at some of these technologies well you've got to have an open mindset and obviously like anything it's okay to fail as long as you learn from your mistakes but as we think specifically about our network and coordinate in particular I think trying to reference some of the technologies and that that requires a lot of data so you need to understand what the future looks like and provide a scale and flexible solution for our customers and John also reference Borden ACK we are in the process of deploy in that and it's all about having that single pane of glass in an integrated solution and makes it easier for a smaller supports team to manage and ultimately Triberr you and Ally investments and other parts of their company well Hilton I know we're up against it on the time I want to thank you for for taking some time out of your busy day and lovely Atlanta and sharing your story and John you know nothing but continued success to you and fortunate we've really been happy to be part of the story and share it and come to the conference's and just another step on that on that journey to success thank you thanks a lot all right thanks gentlemen all right you've been watching the cube from our Palo Alto studios thanks for watching we'll see you next time [Music]

>> Mine from Las Vegas. It's the cute covering knowledge sixteen brought to you by service. Now carry your host, Dave Alon and Jeff Rick. >> Welcome back to knowledge. Sixteen. Everybody, This is the Cube. Silicon Angles, flagship product. We go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise Bart Murphy is. Here's the CTO of York Risk Services group. Mark. Good to see again. Good to see you. But thank you for having me. So what's been going on this week? Busy week. What you been doing this week has >> been busy. I've been doing a couple different things. One on the CIA decisions track, you know, collaborated on with those folks and getting some sessions in from service now and then on the partner side. You know, talking to customers, checking out and enjoying the the key notes on seeing what's new on the platform. Very exciting. >> Did you see Secretary Gates last night? We were, unfortunately, >> got pulled out for a call, So I >> think that's the >> one thing I did miss. You >> want to call me on that? One of things, he said, which I want to ask you about a former CEO. See XO now? Hey, said that consensus management don't bother now speaking to watch the CEO's as the CEO, yeah, it's a >> challenge. I think you know, there's there's one component that you have to devise, a strategy that you know a sound, and you have to have some resolve to help sell it. So I see that component of it. But the other is to sell that vision and get other people bought it. So, you know, I think there is a and consensus component from that, certainly from the executive team. And then you have to go sell it to your organization as well. And I think that truly doesn't come from just talking about the vision or the business case. It's from actually delivering the software and delivering the services and doing in an incremental basis that allows them to see and gain value from that, that that's what you build your credibility up on. And I think then that's what helps sell it. >> So you've gone through a few changes personally, your company. So take us through the care works acquisition. Sure, so >> careless family companies was required by your Chris Services Group S O. We're now part of a larger organization and national organization, Although care works itself had a few of the companies that had national footprint, a majority of them were primarily based in Ohio. So strategically great fit a great company. I moved into the corporate CTO roll about Oh, a year, year and a half after the acquisition, and I've been really trying to build out the entire enterprise strategy from a night perspective because they just they had procured a lot of acquired a lot of companies over a two to three year time span. And so we need to really invest a lot of time on what the future state of it is going to look like. >> So it's interesting gone from CEO to CTO. People talk coming to Cuba to talk about the role of the CIA. He'LL talk about all the time, and there'd been someone put forth the notion that the CEO eventually is going to have to choose a path, technical path or business path. You know, maybe both at different times. Do you subscribe to that, or do you see the CEO role is continuing on a CZ? We've known it. Yeah, >> we don't have a separate CIA and CTO I oversee the including operations. To me from a title perspective, I just want to have the organization view that that role is part of innovation. We have a chief innovation officer as well, but from a technology perspective, I think it's very difficult to run operations if you don't have a good grass for the technology in the platform. So regardless of the roller or title that they gave me, I think it's more about what are you managing on? And I don't want to ever be broken up between sort of SETI role that may be more focused on newer technology projects and then a CIA on Lee based on building our run methods. I want to make sure that those organizations are always combined because you're going to build much better software if you also have to support it. We also want to make sure that the automation is in place so that we have our support organization in mind when we actually deploy new platforms, new applications, new systems. >> So you see yourself as a software company. >> You know we do. We're in the wrist services business, so we are, ah, services provider, two carriers to large self insured Teo Large Claims organization. So we see ourselves. A lot of what we do is differentiated by our technology. Whether that's, you know, better business process, outsourcing functions or ability to do Bill review faster, more accurately. So our CEO definitely sees us as a technology company, and that's why there's a lot of investment in time being put into sort of build out what that future state of it is going to look like. >> What what do you do with service now? These days? How did the acquisition affect that and where you had it? >> Well, so we just went live with Yorker Services Group on service now is Platform on Geneva, and that's actually a separate production instance that we have with care work. So we deployed the care works instance in early two thousand eleven, late two thousand ten in that time frame, and there were, you know, there's a ton of customization a lot, you know, very solid platform for that family of companies with the York. There's a much larger scope that we wanted to address so very lucky again to be in that situation because I had an opportunity to start a redo and any time that you worked on a platform and you do it for a few years and then you get a chance to actually build again. So we really took more of an enterprise. I till out of the box type of approach s O that it could be flexible enough to manage across the entire enterprise, including all the acquired companies that we plan to pull onto the platform. And then that gives us time to figure out what was really the best out of our other platform that we want to, you know, retrofit back in. But the main reason I did that is to make sure that we could get some benefit out of the platform now and work and migrate into the business. Shared services functions within York that I think we're going to benefit very, very much from the new platform. >> So you've got a mulligan of sorts a little bit. >> Yeah, I got lucky on that on a little bit of the mulligan. And, you know, again, it's all about trying to make sure that we can come in and we just went live. You know, we're gonna have our challenges, like with any organizational change management solution, even just on the same side. But the cadence in which we're putting out releases to actually improve and bring on other shared services functions, I think, is where we will gain the majority of buying. >> So this notion here talked about a lot of this conference. The single cmd b yeah, is that something that you're able to achieve or working toward? Are you there? And absolutely, it's the goal. >> I mean, I don't know if you ever achieve it. I think it does take a lot of time. So the goal is to have everything in one platform for all of our companies across the board and to help facilitate automation, whether it's with GRC with the new security product that's coming out, which is, you know, something we're looking to get deployed in. Q three Q. Three Q For hopefully sooner rather than later. I just see there's a bunch of play on the automation orchestration side as it relates to tying in and tying an audit. Tien and Security on then also looking at business shared services and you know that's a whole different world of figuring out how can we help them? And we have ah operations service and are actually part of our next release. So I'll be very interested to see. You know, they do a lot of things manually like everybody does. He'LL be very keen to see how they see the platform and what they're going to come up with us, a strategy long term for them. >> So are you mentioned a couple times that York's made a number of acquisitions your company included, and don't give twenty four looking statements? Obviously, they're going to keep rolling up more things. But if you could speak to using service now as a vehicle to better integrate acquisitions, yeah, because for a lot of companies, that's a strategy. >> Yes, so and I actually have a strategy around that leveraging the platform is one of the main reasons that want to get it in now so that it could eventually build that. My whole goal there is the Leverage Performance Analytics on the way that I envisioned. Using that is, in many of the companies that we acquire, they will operate still, stand alone from a night perspective for some period of time. You know, whether that's six months, three months, two years until we can fully integrate him, whether it's network, you know, systems consolidation you name it. It takes a long time. It's not something that we have solved. So part of it is to be able to do modeling using Performance Analytics by pulling in the data so I can get them now onto this cloud platform because they don't need to be on network. I can have them operating their work within that platform for a period of a baseline period of time. And I could start to model that using Performance Analytics to say, How would that impact our enterprise? That's allies. Does it help our enterprise? That's always. Does it degrade our enterprise? That's the lace. Are they staffed appropriately to actually meet our enterprise? That's the lace and what our enterprises slaves. Once we start collecting all this data based on how we're staffed and how we're going to, you know, fund that transaction. So, >> Bart, if I understood it correctly, you have the dual role CEO slash CTO. Okay, is that there's the CSO report into you are he does. I saw Also he >> does. And so and that's ah, new rule that we established about a little less than a year ago. There was ah VP of corporate security. But we didn't have a chief information security officer s. So I we're not got a very season, see so and working not only as an internal what we do internally. Also within our tech company as well. We started cybersecurity practice. So everything we do, we try to make sure that we can actually support our technology investments from an enterprise perspective and be able to self serve ourselves as an enterprise. So very excited about that. That's why we're getting to the security components and some other products that we think will integrate extremely well into service. Now >> let's talk about that a little bit. I want to put forth the premise. You tell me, feel free to tell me the premise doesn't hold water. But it seems to us that there's been a shift in thinking about security from we'LL focus on you know, defense, defense, defense to one of you know we're going to get infiltrated. It's all about how we respond and I as the sea xo Whatever. See so CEO Seo, I can help lead that response. It's mechanism, but it's a team sport. Is that a valid premise? >> I think it's valid. I think you know, I think it's a little it is driving some change v f ear. But, you know, I think that, you know, is certainly from an external perspective can protect yourself pretty well. You know, a lot of the breaches were actually curve, and some of the cases were internal or through third party partners. So I think there's been a lot of additional due diligence being put on organization, especially as a service organization. We work with a lot of large insurance carriers as an example. So we are getting hit with a lot more requests and a lot more sort of assessments on what our controls are in that space. So we need to be mature, and that's based no matter what, since again, we're providing services to clients in this space, and we're collecting a good amount of claim data and bill data and medical data. So I'm not as going out staying okay, just when it's gonna happen and how we handle breach. If that's the case, I'm trying to figure out what are the ways that we can proactively manage our environment and be able to respond in a much faster fashion to isolate an issue as quickly as possible, which is why I'm really excited about the automation and security component within service now because properly integrated with similar tools that we have. There's a lot that the system conduce that a human can't get too fast enough that will actually shut down to manage that risk extremely well. >> Do you believe that the board level? There's sort of open and transparent communication that that it's not about If Wade get infiltrated, its we have been infiltrated and we will continue to be infiltrated. That discussion occur. >> I think, yeah, the board level. They're certainly more aware, and not just from their participation in our board for the companies that they run themselves, because many of these folks come from companies that their run themselves. So I think there's certainly an awareness I think they're demanding and wanting to have more concrete plans on what your corporate security strategy is going to be. So we've produced a three year plan on what that is and presented that our committee and are starting to communicate that all the way up, you know, through our CEO. So I think there's more awareness I I think that for whatever reason, people think that it hasn't been working on this for some time, but they have S o. You know, there's a lot of good things that we've already done and already put in place that people just need to be made aware of it and get up to speed if you will. And then there's. Here's what we're doing to invest in trying to stop future things or to be more proactive or tow, have better control. Is better auto practices this type of >> what's the right regime for a cyber security? In other words, who should be responsible for should be a single tech group? We Should it be a wider group. What responsibility? >> And no, it's it's it's It's by committee. So our committee included, you know, our general counsel, our CEO, our chief human resource officer, our CEO. So it it's a joint effort. Certainly there's a large component of it because many of it is about your defenses in your ability to manage and maintain and keep your data secure. But security is a company wide initiative. You know everything from training all the way down the associate level to not, you know, click on bad email links, right that no matter what you do and what type of in a virus you have and you're still going to get some of those fishing emails and some of those ransomware emails in those type of components. So there's a whole education put component that goes all the way down to the associate level. If that's not understood by the management over those groups, then you know how is it going to actually be distilled down and supported? So it's a complete company effort when it comes to corporate security. >> And how about >> the business lines? Because our research shows that a lot of organizations don't you don't even have the specifically answer for your organization. Just in your experience is the CEO and the CEO. If it seems as though a lot of businesses don't understand the value of their data or the value of their I p, and as a result, don't really know how to protect it, is that something that is challenging for organism >> Asians? I think it is least when I've talked to other clients potentially, I think less today than it was even five years ago. We certainly know the value of our data. I mean, there's been too many breaches in the large breaches in the past three years to not be aware. I have had that question asked ofyou on, even for a business perspective, understand the exposure. So you know they what is that? Hundred fifty hundred twenty five dollars per claim? Potentially on the data side. So people even put metrics around. It's you, Khun. Quickly go through and established what you think your overall exposure is from a dollar perspective and that starts toe. You know, open eyes when you have millions of claims, are even more millions of bills. >> And that's your business. So you would think you have a better understanding everything most. But so for those who don't how should they go about achieving that knowledge? That awareness, >> They should find someone that, you know, maybe some type of trusted advisor. You know, whether they need to hire a consulting company whether they need to go and just converse with another AA group like a CEO group and ask Hey, have you guys done this before? There's a ton of collaboration at that level where people are asking, Hey, how did you guys come up with your security road map on What did that >> look like? Because Because the value then drives your investment decisions, right, because that's the other thing is kind of like insurance. When is enough enough, You could always been Mohr, but at some point you're gonna have diminishing returns relative to the value. But you've gotta have a basis to set a budget. So I would imagine the value of the data, the value of the risk, whether its >> value brand right, so outside of the hard costs of potentially, you know, getting credit rating or those type of components. You know, there's there's the brand discussion, and I think that's somewhat invaluable. So, you know, budgets are just over. Go spend what you want, but there's certainly a lot of awareness that money needs to be spent that area. It needs to be spent wisely, but there hasn't been an issue as to either one. We're coming up with wild budgets for security but explaining what we're doing and why, and how cost effectively we're doing. It has been very well >> in thinking about how you communicate to the board Yeah, about cyber security. What would be the top two or three things that you would recommend that a C XO should have on his or her checklist? >> One is, you know, understanding all your end point, so understanding everything that's in your network. And it's an easy to say, but it's a very hard thing to do, especially when you have external facing applications. And you have a lot of different networks, so understanding your scope of devices and understand. You know, that way you could understand, to start to collect and fill up that C M G B and understand. Okay, if I have a patch that wasn't applied, how many devices were impacted? You know, how quickly can I get those remediated s so that you know, I think understanding the technical scope of your organization is important because it's very difficult to understand your risks, you know, rating if you will. If you don't understand the tools you have in place and where your potential holes maybe, ah, and then understanding you know your core data. So you know what is in your data that would potentially create a potential risk, even a financial risk? Certainly we go through all the insurance process, right? And even insurance now for cyber liability insurance. You know, the forms for five years ago were much different than the forms that are being filled out today. Much different. A lot more detail, a lot more drill down. So even just going through that process alone drives you to actually go and collect all this information that I'm talking about today, you know, so understanding your internal environment in understanding you know, those endpoints understanding the scope of your data management. And then I think it's around developing a sound strategy that is not just short term but short term and long term, with investments not just in tools, but also processes training those components. >> Did you look a tte security and responding to security is part of, ah, business continuity, as opposed to sort of a bespoke initiative. It is, There's business >> continuity and d are both have components of security, but it is truly what a way to ensure that you're you stay in business, right, and and And if people don't view it that way, then there's a lot of organizations that have been either crippled, not necessary put out of business but impacted extremely large. You know, financial impact with unmanaged breaches that actually went on way too long, right? And they weren't able to detect it, you know? So I think that there's a component there where you have to really think about what's the scope of the work, what the scope of the risk and how much do we need to invest? >> And you see service now. And I'm spending so much time in security this week because I'm excited about what I saw on Monday at the financial analyst meeting and who, talking to folks about this very important topic, you see, service now is playing a role in solving this problem. >> I do because we're a big user of GRC. So we already went down the audit route with service now years ago s Oh, this is just another extension I see of not just audit controls but being more proactive on the security side. And so, since all of our information is in this platform anyhow, we have a ton of opportunity toe automate and manage a lot of the things that again could have potentially gone unnoticed for a period of time simply because a manpower or logs if you ever had a review logs from some of these devices. I mean, trying to find the needle in the haystack is very difficult. So tools are extremely important in this space. Humans cannot meet this challenge alone at all. >> You just make a tad cloud. You wish, right? Awesome. Bart, this is I'LL give you the last word so that your impressions on knowledge sixteen. >> I'm excited, You know, the way it's grown again The way that they're really being purposeful about how they're building out their platform and truly trying to solve the enterprise problems to me is just it shows a very strategic, well thought out plan by service now. And as customers, you know and partners, you know, that's that's what you want to see from a company. So for me, I'm just very pleased where the platforms going. It's exciting how much they've grown. But the way that they've been able to invest in the right things, I feel and truly integrate things into the platform, even acquisitions that they had on and truly make it part of the platform versus and add on, I think, is really differentiating them from a lot of products that have grown in a similar matter but become unwieldy to manage because they're just pieced together. So I'm very, very excited, >> Fantastic. The cube securing knowledge for our audience that Bart, you have full of a lot of knowledge and really appreciate you coming on the Cuban and sharing. >> Yeah, appreciate it. Nice seeing you guys. >> All right, Keep it right there, everybody. We'LL be back with our next guests right after this. We're live knowledge. Sixteen from the Mandalay Bay Hotel in Las Vegas, right back. >> Every once in a while.