>>the >>globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS >>reinvent 2020 >>sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Everyone welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Virtual I'm John for your host. Got a great segment here with two analyst day Volonte and Zia's Carvell who's head principles of zk research dot com. Guys. Great to see you A W s Kino. Thanks for >>coming on. Let's be back in the cube. >>Welcome back. Great to see you guys. Wanna get your thoughts? Um, it's mainly you because we talked with the enterprise a lot. You are leading analyst. You cover a broad range from networking all the way up to the C suite for enterprise buyers and and technology trends. Um, Andy Jassy laid down, in my opinion, what was directionally his next 20 mile stare. The next conquest for Amazon. And that is global. I t spend they locked in the infrastructures of service pass kicking ass. There. Check check. Hello, Enterprise. Different ballgame. What's your thoughts? >>Yeah, they have so much in different areas, obviously. You know, they have dominated cloud instances right there. Mawr compute storage memory. You know insists that anybody but you can see him, um, spreading their wings now, right? I think one of the more interesting announcements was actually what they're doing with Amazon connect. That's their contact center platform. And this is something that I think, Even last year, a lot of people weren't really even sure if they'd be in a long primary in the pocket. People about this market, they were asking, If you really think Amazon's in this, there's something they're experimenting. But we're here to stay. And I think one of the interesting things that they bring to market is, you know, almost unprecedented scale with their cloud platform as well as all the machine learning algorithms. And I think if if you believe that machine learning artificial intelligence is changing, I t. Forever and that's everything from the infrastructure to the network through the applications, then they have an inherent advantage because they have all those machine learning albums built into this stuff that they dio and so they can constantly look at these different markets and disruptive, disruptive, disrupt and take more and more sharing that and that's what they've done. E think that's you know, the context and announcements were great example that they're not doing the telephony things, and, you know, they're kind of bare table stakes. They do that pretty well, but they've just unloaded a whole bunch of ai based features that >>Dave, what's your take on this context center? Because it's not just call centers. I mean, there was a whole industry around call center, unified communications. That whole world. This is about the contact. It's about the person. This is not just a nuanced thing like telephony or, you know, PBX is in the old days. Remember those days? Things is not about the call. It's about the contact. This is what Jazzy saying. >>I think that way had Diana or on early. And I said, I like the fact that their AWS specifically is going after these solutions because several years ago it was just sort of. Here's a bunch of tools. Go figure it out. I think the contact center is I mean, everybody can relate Thio the pains of going through getting rerouted, having to restate all your credentials, not knowing who you are. And so between machine learning, Alexa, Natural language processing, better work flows. I mean there's this huge opportunity toe reinvent the whole call center contact center. So, uh, yeah, I think you called it John. It's a no brainer for a W s toe Really disrupt that >>business. Well, it also puts him in a position. You know, news is breaking on the day of and yet his keynote here at reinvent that, uh, you got Salesforce spying slack for 27 close toe, $28 billion. That's a 55% premium over when they announced it. And that's like a 30 x or 50 x on on revenue. Massive number to confess the message board software. I mean, so So. So. If Amazon can come in and get the context center model, which is not just voice, it's chat, it's machine learning. It's bots. And the innovation to create a step function kind of brings it back into the that integration of user network compute. You know, I just think that it feels very edgy in the sense of edge computing, because if I'm a person, I'm mobile. If I'm a person at work or at home, so there's a whole redefinition Zs, what's your take on this edge? Play from Amazon in context toe the enterprise software landscape. That seems to be, you know, focus on buying companies like Salesforce. >>Well, I think edges really the next big foray for computing. If one of the things and you ask we talked about this, you know, was that the compute, the unit of Compute, has gotten smaller and smaller, Right? We went from data centers to servers to virtual machines, the virtual machines and clouds. Now we're talking about containers and containers on edges, and this requires, um if you if you believe in the world of distributed computing where we're gonna have mawr containers running in MAWR, places on MAWR edges, right. The value proposition where companies is now they can move their data closer to the customer. They could move data closer to the user. And so, if I'm a retailer and I'm trying to understand what a customer is doing, I could do that in store. If I'm Tesla and I'm trying to understand what the drivers doing, I could do that in car, right? If I'm a cellular provider, I could do it by cellular edge. So the edge, I think, is where a lot of the innovation is going to be at Amazon has the luxury of this massive global network. You know, they just announced the number another a number of other local nodes, including Boston and a few other places. So they've got the footprint in place. And this this is what makes Amazon's are difficult to compete with, right? They built this massive network and this all these, no doubt for their e commerce business. And now they're leveraging that deliver I t services. You can't just go build this from the ground up the variety, right? You have to be able to monetize it another way. And they've been doing that with the commerce for a long time. And so it makes them. It makes it very, very difficult for them to capture Google could with Daniel forget about the item. Oh, yeah, so good. Microsoft. Possibly. But they I think that the more distributed compute becomes the more favors Amazon, >>I would add to that if I could, John, I mean, look good. Look at the prevailing way in which many of the infrastructure the old guard is Andy. Jesse calls them. Companies have pursued the edge they've essentially taking, taking x 86 boxes and, you know, maybe made him rugged and throwing them over the fence to the edge. And that really is not gonna play the edges. Now there's not one edge. I mean, there's a very highly specific use cases and factories and windmills. And maybe maybe it's small retail organizations, and whatever it is that those are gonna be really unique situations. And I think the idea of putting a programmable infrastructure at the edge is gonna win. I also think that the edge architecture is gonna be different. It's going to require much more efficient processing to do a I Influencing a lot of the data is gonna be, uh, stay at the edge. A lot of it's not gonna be persisted. Some of it's gonna come back to the cloud. But I think most of it is actually gonna gonna either not be persisted or stay at the edge and be affected in real time. When you think of autonomous vehicles so totally different programming model, >>well, I think that's the point of what I was saying earlier Zeus was talking about Is that it's It's the edges is just different. I mean, you got purpose built stuff. I mean, they were talking by the way they have snowball. So they have, ah, hard edge device. And they got out outpost now in multiple flavors and sizes. But they also were talking about computer vision and machine learning. We're going together for that. The panoramic appliance. I think it was where there's all these different cases to your point, Dave, where it's just different. At the edge, you have the zones for five G. I mean, if you go to a five g tower, that's essentially an edge. Just there's equipment up to this. Radios is transceivers and other back haul equipment. So when you look at the totality of what it is, the diversity, I think that's why this whole idea of Lambda and Containers is interesting. Toe Zia's. When you were saying about the compute sizes being small, because if you could put compute at the edge on small pieces to match the form factor that becomes interesting. I think that's what this Lambda container announcement I found interesting because I see that playing directly into that your reaction to >>that. It actually, um, makes it. If not done correctly, it could make I t much more complex because, um, containers air interesting because they're not like virtual machines. First live in perpetuity. Containers you They're very ephemeral, right? You spin them up to 30 seconds, you spin them up for a couple of minutes that you deprecate them. So at any given point in time, you could have thousands of containers, a handful of containers, millions of containers, Right? But it necessitates a common management. Uh huh. Underlay that could be used to visualize where these containers are, what's running on them. And that's what AWS provides. You know, all the stuff they're doing Lambda and Eks and things like that that lends itself to that. So a customer can then go and almost create a container architecture that spans all their cloud's edges, even on Prem. Now, uh, when Amazon has but still be able to manage it and simplify it, I think somebody's trying to do it themselves. They're gonna find that the complexity almost becomes untenable. Unless you have a Nike organization the size of Amazon companies don't. So we're >>gonna here, we're gonna hear from Deepak singing in a few sessions. He did the eks anywhere. That's essentially kubernetes service on the data center. But look at what they did with eks anywhere and then CCS, which has a common control plane to your point, that's compelling. And so, you know, if you're a developer or you're an enterprise, you might not have If you want to go with this. I t world. We talked about earlier zeros before you came on on our last segment. Most I t is not that built out in terms of capabilities. So learning new stuff is hard, so operating Amazon might be foreign to most I t shops. This is a challenge. Did you agree with that? Or or how do you see that? >>Um, well, a lot of Amazon used, obviously just the interviews and numbers of fucked that right. Um, but I think the concept of in a world where you have that common operating layer that spans it's no longer geographically limited to a data center or to a server. You know, it's it's now distributed across your entire multi cloud or distributed cloud environment. And so one of the important things right people remember is the world is becoming more dynamic and or distributed, and your I t strategy has to follow that. If you're doing things that are counted that you're not only standing still, you're actually going backwards. And so what Amazon is doing is they're allowing companies to be is dynamic distributors. They need to be to be able to maintain that that common operating layer that actually makes it management, because without it, you just you wind up in a situation. Like I said, that's incredible. A lot of people facing that today. And that's why that's why there's this big divergence, right? This five native cos they're going fast and legacy companies that can. >>Guys, I want to spend the next 10 minutes we have getting into more of the business side from this keynote because because I know your research on digital transmission first. I know you know the networking side up and down the stack and all that good stuff, but you've been doing a lot of research around the digital transformation with the cloud. Dave, you just put out a great great breaking and else think your 55th, um, episode on digital transformation with the cloud. It's very clear that Jackie is basically preaching, saying, Hey, Clay Christensen is former professor who passed away. He brought up this whole innovator's dilemma kind of theme and saying, Hey, if you don't get the reality that you're in, you better wake up and smell the coffee. It's a wake up call. That's what he's basically saying That's my take away. This is really this business management lesson. Leadership thinking is super important, and I know we've We've talked about people process, technology. Uh, let's Covad eyes this real quick. Bottom line. What is the playbook? Do you agree with jazz? His point of view here? Um, he's pretty being hardcore. He's like, literally saying adapter die in his own way. What, you guys thoughts on this? This is a true forcing function. This cove, In reality, >>I mean I mean, if you talk about the business transformation, digital transformation, business transformation, you know, what does that mean? I, like, said earlier that the last 10 years about I t transformation, I think the next 10 is gonna be about business transformation, organizational industry transformation, and I think what that means is the entire operational stack is gonna get digitized. So your sales you're marketing your your customer support your logistics. You know you're gonna have one interface to the customer as opposed toe, you know, fragmented stovepipe siloed. You know, data sets all over the place, and that is a major change. And I think that's ultimately what a W. S is trying to affect with its model and has obviously big challenges in doing so. But But that, to me, is what digital transformation is ultimately all about. And I think you're going to see it unfold very rapidly over the next several >>years. What's your reaction? What's your view on on the on Jackie? >>And he talked about his eight steps toe reinvention. Um and e think what digital transformation to me is the willingness to re invent disruptive own business even in the face that it might look horrible for your business, right? But understanding he is there something that I think is true. And a lot of, um, business leaders don't fully by this that if something is good for your customer, they're going to do it, and you can either make it happen, or you gonna watch it happen and then have the market taken away from me because there's a lot of cases you look at how slow you know, A lot of the banks, you know, operated until you know, the a lot of these, uh, cloud native, uh, money exchange systems came around the cape. Alan Ben more and things like that, right? Even retailers Amazon completely disrupted that model. You could say that Amazon killed, you know, Toys R us, but 20 rescue Toys R Us E. And I think there's got to be this hard willingness to look at your business model and be willing to disrupt yourself. And what Kobe did, John, I think, is a taught us a lesson that you have to be prepared for anything because nobody saw this coming. And sure you can. And a lot of companies thrived out of this, and a lot of one's gone away, but that the ability to be agile has never been more important. But you're only is Angela's. Ike lets you be, and that's what that's what. The W. Is going to sell us the ability to do anything you want with your business. But the staff, you have to have the business because they're willing to do that. >>You know, that's a great point. That's so smart. It's crime that's worth calling out. And we were talking before we came on live about our business with the Cube. There's no virtual, there's no floor anymore. So we had to go virtual if we weren't in the cloud. If we weren't doing R and D and tinkering with some software and having our studio, we'd be out of business. Dave. Everyone knows it. Now Get the Cube virtual. We have some software were position, and this kind of speaks directly to what Andy Jassy said. He said. Quote. If you're not in the process of figuring out as a company, how you're going to reinvent your customer experience in your product and reinvent who you are, you are starting to unwind. You may not realize it, but you are. What he's saying is you better wake up and smell the coffee and I want to get your guys reacted. You, particularly you around your experience and research. I've noticed that some customers that had cloud going on did well with co vid and said ones that didn't are still struggling not to catch up. So you're kind of intense. You got some companies that were that were on the wave, Maybe kind of figuring it out, that we're in good position and some that were flat footed and are desperate. Um, seems to be a trend. Do you agree with that? And what's your view on this idea of being ready? What does that even mean to be? Have readiness or >>take, you don't get the data points that Andy threw up there, right? That 50% of the companies that were the global fortune $500.2000 or are no longer here, Right? That Zatz Pretty shocking statistic. And that does come, uh, you know, from the willingness to disrupt your business. And if you got you're right. The companies that had a good, solid class raging in place, we're able to adapt their business very quickly. You could you look at retailers. Some had a very strong online presence. They had online customer service set up those companies didn't find other ones, were really forced to try and figure out how to let people in the store had a mimic. You know, the in store experience, you know, through from, uh, you know, support interface or whatever. Those are the ones that really struggling. So you're right. I think companies that were on the offensive plug to Dover companies that were fully in the cloud really accelerated their business and ones that didn't buy into it. I think they're struggling to survive in a lot of They're gone. >>Yeah, and all that. John, When Jesus was talking about his view of digital transformation, I was just writing down some of the examples to your point. The folks that were sort of had were cloud ready, covert ready, if you will. And those that weren't But think about think about automobiles. You know, there's testily even a manufacturer of automobiles or they software company. Personal health has completely changed over the last nine months with remote. You know, uh, telehealth automated manufacturing. You think about digital cash, e commerce and retail is completely, you know, accelerated. Obviously toe online. Think about kids in college and kids in high school and remote learning farming. You know, we've done a great job in terms of mono crops and actually creating a lot of food. But now I think the next 10 years is gonna be how do we get more nutritious food to people and so virtually every industry is ripe for disruption, and the cloud is the underpinning of that disruption. >>Alright, guys, got a few more minutes left. I want to get your thoughts quickly on the keynote. What it means for the customers that we're watching again. This is not a sales and marketing conference as they talk about. But if you're sitting in the audience, you guys, we're watching and we're virtual um Did it hit home with you? If you're a customer, what did he what? Give us Give the grades. Where do you Where do you hit a home run? Where he missed. Did he leave anything out? What's your take Zia's? We'll start with you. >>Um, I thought it was actually really good Keynote. I thought you did a good job of making the case for AWS. They talked about the open. They have more instances than anybody. So you could do almost any kind of compute in their cloud. I think one of the important lessons variety to is the importance. You can't just do everything. The software right? Hardware Still important silicon still important that, and to meet the needs of very special he needs from things like machine learning and AI. Amazon's actually spending their own silicon very much like Athens doing with their computers. And so if you are going to be a customer service focused company, you need to think of the I T. Stack and everything from the silicon, the hardware through the software, and build that integrated experience to Amazon's giving a tools to do that Now E. Do I would like to see Amazon be a little more, um, a supposed the cloud competitive friendly. The one thing I hear from customers all the time is they love the Amazon tools. They love the optimization capabilities, but you know, if they are adopting some kind of multi cloud strategy, the Amazon tools don't work in Azure and the capital don't work in Amazon. The same with Google, and it would be well within the best interests of those three companies. They find a way to get together and allow their common framework to work across clouds. Amazon's already got a lead that they could do that, and I don't think it's gonna be, but that that is something I think that's still missing from this world is they make it very difficult for customers to move the multi cloud. >>Well, some would say some people are saying, saying that the number one in the cloud I mean, got cloud wars Bob Evans over there saying Microsoft is dominating number one position over everybody else, multiple quarters in a row Now he's looking at revenue and granted. You got a lot of propping up there you got. You know, Windows server and sequel. You got a bunch of professional services, But clearly the I as in past side of the market, Microsoft is, like, way behind um So, yeah, they've got the numbers little legacy in their Microsoft should, and they got a little base. If I'm Amazon, I'm not. I'm worried about Microsoft more than anybody. I think you know, I looking at the Civil War between the Seattle forces. I mean, this is really Microsoft's gotta greatest all base, and they could flip that license deals and >>the cloud is good enough. I mean, it's myself doing very, very well with its classic Microsoft. You know >>they your point. Microsoft is the king of good enough, right? They put out features. They market heavily to the I t pro on. They put out licensing packages, so you're almost foolish to not at least fry their products. And then they do roll it out. So it's good enough and then you live with it for a while. But ultimately, whenever people use Microsoft, they do have an alternative under in there for a very special case. But e don't wanna >>the king of good enough. That's a great line. I love that. I'm gonna use that. But this Babel fish thing for Aurora that is a huge dagger. Potentially, it's an escape valve for customers. They wanna leave Microsoft. But clearly, if Microsoft you're gonna get penalized by running your license on Amazon. >>If our CEO our i t c t, I'd say, Okay, I definitely want to do business with with Amazon. That's what I heard today from Jassy, and I would want to hedge my bets either with Microsoft, especially if I'm a Microsoft shop or with Google's from analytics heavy unquestionably. I'd want to hedge my bets and have some kind of 70 30 80 20 mix. >>Look, if you're Andy Jassy and he's told me my interview, do it directly. I asked this question. He was very forthright. He doesn't hide from the fact that, uh, customers have multiple clouds, but they have a primary and secondary, but they're not gonna have, like, five or six major clouds. Yeah, it's hard to get these teams trained at to begin with. So there's a hedge. There's a supplier leverage. I get that. He's totally gets that. But if you're Amazon, you're gonna have your annual conference. You really don't wanna be in the business of talking about the other guys cloud, you say hybrid, right? It's on my show. You know, like you're competing. This is there's definitely competition between Microsoft and A W s. So you gotta respect that. But yeah, of course. There's multiple clouds called hybrid eks everywhere. Uh, container service. I mean, >>especially global, right? Different cloud providers of different strengths in different regions. You know, Microsoft, very strong in the Gulf. AWS isn't you know. So if you're a global company, um, you know, then you almost by default, have to go multi cloud multiple cloud vendors because of geographic differences. Obviously, China, with its own set of cloud providers. So, you know, smaller midsize businesses could get away with one, but As soon as you become global, you have to use more. >>Well, I'm a big fan of distributed computing. I loved the large scale concept of distribute computing. You got regions. Now you've got local zones. You got I O t edge. You got cloud going on Prem Edge. It's really an edge game at this point. Greater now distributed hyper Put hyper next to anything hyper cloud on your sounds better Piper >>Cube. And the opportunities the cloud providers and Amazon, you know, certainly is leading. This is the ability to take this complex, hyper distributed world and use their management tools toe create a normalized operating simplify What would be an overly complex world about it? >>Okay, we got a break. Just quick plug. There's a big salesforce event coming up on December 10th. Check it out on the Amazon site that that plug in you watching the cube stay tuned for more coverage after this break

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2019, brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, live from AWS re:Invent 19 in Vegas. I am Lisa Martin with John Furrier and we're going to be taking something that was an exclusive from John's interview with Andy Jassy from a couple days ago, something that he told John. We're going to be talking about it here with Verizon. Please welcome Steve Szabo, Head of Global Products and Solutions IOT and 5G Edge. Welcome, Steve. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. This is an exciting day. >> It is an exciting day. So one of the things that Andy Jassy told John in that exclusive interview that went viral, if you haven't read it check it out, was that companies are going to want to eliminate network hops and find a way to have the compute in the storage much more local to the 5G network edge. Tell us, what did AWS and Verizon just unveil this morning? >> Yeah. So today it's all about Verizon's network in AWS cloud, right? So we've taken what they're calling Wavelength, their centralized cloud platform. We're moving it into Verizon's network, fully integrated. This is 18 months of engineering effort so this isn't something that you just wake up and you have access to. This is a lot of blood, sweat and tears that the companies have put in together to get this opportunity. What this does is it takes their cloud capabilities, it puts them on our network, fully integrated with the radio access layer so that customers will have access to everything that they were using from an AWS perspective but then also be able to leverage Verizon's network capability. So all the API's, the Eight Currencies that Hans talked about on stage today, giving developers and businesses alike the opportunity to leverage the best of those and go ahead and leverage the bandwidth, the latency type use cases and really transform the way that folks are thinking about leveraging the network. >> You know Steve, one of the things in the networking the computer industry, everyone always talks about trade-offs, hops on the network spectrum. I got a longer range or shorter throughput. 5G's got some pretty significant bandwidth up to 10G's >> Yeah. >> Gigs on that. That's phenomenal but the foot press is a little bit different. So that begs the question for high bandwidth needs whether it's gaming, immersive experiences, whatever, you got to bring the compute. This is the whole thesis of Amazon's shift. They're bringing Amazon to the Edge, you guys are providing it. What's different about the Verizon 5G that makes this a unique opportunities? Is it the throughput, is it the topology, is that the-- >> We'd like to think it's a little bit of everything, right? >> John: Tell us how it works. >> Yeah, I mean listen at the end of the day, we have 5G. It's opening up the Eight Currencies. When you factor in 5G Edge, that's when you really see the power of 5G and then when you layer on the AWS Wavelength stack, integrate it into the network, it just gives an opportunity for folks to take advantage of these Eight Currencies. A hundred feet behind me at our booth, we have Bethesda gaming and that was one of the things that we talked about. But if you think about it, they have an Orion gaming platform. They leverage AWS today, they want to reach out and have the ability to have their gaming platform stream to Verizon customers using mobile devices. If you think about the fact that you can almost take the console out of the home, folks are literally leveraging GPU/CPU intensive graphic and gaming streaming content and they're using a Bluetooth controller and they're doing it on a Verizon 5G device. I mean who would have thought that you'd be able to do that and you could see it and that's live in Chicago now, they're piloting it on our network. >> Talk about the partnership with Amazon. You mentioned it wasn't just an overnight thing. Multiple months in the making announced on a statutory wave length, was their product, that's the stack. It's essentially an outpost for Telco that's where I'm going. >> Steve: Yeah. >> There's some things in there but they still got to deploy it. What does that look like? How long have you guys been over at Amazon? And you shared some details on the relationship. Where is it located? Is it under, in your network close to the Edge? How close is it? Has it all all worked? >> Yeah. So we'll touch on what we can here but it's live in Chicago, so that's our first market. We'll take an approach to announce it similar to what we've done with our 5G city announcements which is we'll work with our partners. We'll talk internally and then we'll announce those, does it make sense into other markets and cities. Currently, the way that it works is that our SAP sites or our service access points, AWS will have their equipment. It'll be tightly integrated with our radio access network which is when you could see the benefits of the low latency and the computer are all kind of working together. The way for folks to procure that is they would go through. If you're an AWS customer today and you're getting storage and compute, you would be able to access that through AWS's portal environment. It'd just be labeled as Verizon 5G Edge capabilities. If you're buying bandwidth, if you need pro services help or other network service capabilities, you'd work with the Verizon just like you do today. It's a true partnership opportunity and it allows us to kind of work together and kind of head on this journey. >> So the key thing is here, Amazon console, access, click, provisioning? >> They're in, yeah. We did all the hard work and engineering between the two of us to make it as easy as possible for the developers and the businesses, quite honestly. We want what they're familiar with today both on our network and in the tools that they're using in the cloud to be the same experience that they have only just with the benefits of Wavelength and with Verizon. >> Any feedback you can share on the early returns or early engagements or early tinkering and playing around that you could share? >> You know, I would tell you that it's operating as we would expect it to and that's why I would encourage people to go over to our booth and see what's happening over there because when I say that it's live and it's working, it isn't a video, it isn't anything that folks are talking about. This is on our production network. Bethesda is actually gaming with it, leveraging AWS Wavelength and we've got other customers that are all working with it as well. >> And if they're not on here on site, can they go to the website? Is it online now or-- >> Yeah, you'll be able to see whether you go through Verizon's web experiences or AWS portal, it will redirect you either way to learn more. So if you want to learn more about the capabilities on Verizon's side, you'll punch into our site. If you want to go learn more about Wavelength, and what Amazon is doing, we'll punch it back to them. >> So let's talk about benefits. You gave a great example of somebody gaming and that they're accessing live streaming content from wherever they are from the Bluetooth device. So I can understand it from that perspective. But from a business perspective, business apps to business apps, what are some of the projected benefits that enterprises are going to see with that respect? >> Well, I think a couple of things. One, it's going to open up used cases for latency intensive so I brought up Bethseda for a reason. Their cloud gaming to actually stream DOOM which is the game that the demoing in our booth. They couldn't do it without the Edge, right? They would not have the real time gaming capabilities to actually work without it. When you start thinking about retail environments and getting into AR/VR, these immersive experiences to get customers to come into the four walls of your retail building, the ability to have application services that will reach out and engage with consumers for a variety of things whether that's helping them with their buying experience or just for the benefit of your business, gathering intensive sensory data and kind of getting into the AI NML of how your business is operating on a day to day basis, it opens up a variety of things. It's really an ecosystem which is what I think the power of this partnership is all about, right. We're bringing our customers in our network, combine that with AWS services and their developer community and I think you know it's a tool in the developer toolbox that whether you're a developer at a large enterprise, a small business, public sector, et cetera, it's something that you can use your imagination to go out and do something with and kind of test the balance of-- >> You think about the headroom available in terms of future proofing. You got optimization closer to the Edge Edge >> Steve: Yeah. >> You got inside the network capabilities to manage software, to manage resources kind of a new architecture. >> Steve: Yeah. >> A new way to think about resources allocation from bandwidth to compute to data. >> You bring up a great point because that's something you had mentioned earlier about the difference between what we've done versus cola or something like that and this is a full integration. So the ability to architect something that did not actually exist before. A Wavelength is new for AWS, our 5G Edge and our 5G network capabilities. Integrating that seamlessly so that the developer and the enterprise business can have access to that with having a minimal impact of their user experience is really important and then you figure on the layering of possibilities as they start getting more familiar with it. >> Andy Jassy mentioned on Steve with your chairman and CEO a comment. I don't know if it was just a preambling of the intro but he said Verizon, the leader in 5G. I'm sure he meant that. For the folks that aren't following the 5G situation, are you guys the leader and in what way are you leading compared to the others? How should consumers think about 5G? It's almost like this magic pixie that's almost a magic, wait a minute we can't have those speeds, some say hype. What is the reality of the 5G and why are you guys being called the leader? >> Yeah, well we were the first to market with 5G so by default, I think that makes us the leader. But we'll be in 30 cities by the end of the year. The fact that we're the first to have 5G Mobile Edge Computing capabilities, it's integrated with AWS Wavelength, that's to my knowledge not out there in the market yet today. The ability is the fact that we have this live in Chicago, we have customers using it, it's demonstrating real world views cases on a live production network. I mean we're excited about it, it's something we're proud of and it's something that we expect to watch grow and actually ID it with the customers in mind. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> One of the things that Andy and John talked about, and with this whole not just the notion of transformation and there's a lot of talk about transformation today, but also the fact that businesses you know, the vast majority that are around today, if they're not already iterating and moving towards digitalization and modernization that there are a million companies probably doing the same thing or very similar that are going to be able to take them over. But that's a hard change for an legacy enterprise to be able to do. This new ecosystem that Verizon and AWS are building and delivering, what do you guys see together as its ability to be an enabler to transform businesses such that we don't see a business doesn't go by way of Toys R Us, for example? >> Yeah. Well, I think the fact that 5G and the Edge, it offers you to touch out and reach the customers in a way that you couldn't before for your business, that's one. Two, this is geared around 5G and Edge and that's when you really see the power of what we're doing between Verizon and AWS. But one thing that I'd like to highlight is wherever you're at on your digital transformation, some people are going to be starting from zero and some are going to be more advanced. I mean that's a reality of kind of the technology and business alike. We actually have solutions today. AWS has products today. They're already in the cloud. We have LTE capabilities and other network services capabilities, virtualized network, software-defined network capabilities. We can work with customers and help them kind of grow into where they want to be. We did not want somebody to feel like they're buying in and almost isolating themselves into a technology. What we're all about is helping them build the solution that's right for them at whatever point in the journey they're at and then helping them grow into where they can be with 5G and Edge compute. >> Yeah, and I think this is also instructive for the industry structures. You look at the landscape of everyone thinking about re platforming their business in the modern era. You guys have a great footprint, great leadership. Just the idea of this win-win, it makes you guys so much more powerful for future applications. I mean, I can almost see if the Edge is just becoming a very fertile ground for entrepreneurial activity, applications that you guys are going to be powering. I mean "Born on the Edge" might be the new phrase, not "Born in the cloud". >> It could be yeah. >> Born on the Edge. >> You can trademark that. (laughing) >> Now, we're excited. I mean listen, it could be anyone from two people in a garage developing something to developers at a small, medium or large business, taking advantage of use cases and things that might not been achievable. >> We'll go for it. >> Global education. >> Yeah. >> I mean it's endless opportunity there. >> There are opportunities in energy management sustainability we're very proud of. Education, health care, are going to be areas that we'll focus on so there's a lot of opportunity out there. We're at the forefront in our opinion at helping just jumpstart that ecosystem and we're excited about it. >> Congratulations. Really, really great. >> I'll echo that, congratulations and thank you for sharing with John and me more detail about AWS and Verizon, this new ecosystem that opens up tremendous amount of opportunity. We appreciate your time, Steve. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for the time and we're excited, it's a big day. >> It is a big day. >> Big announcement. >> For Steve and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE from re:Invent 19 from Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas It's theCUBE covering the AWS Accenture Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have two guests for this segment. We have Mike Moore, Senior Principal at Accenture Research, and Andrew Wilson, Chief Information Officer at Accenture. Thank you both so much for returning to theCUBE. >> Good to see you as ever, Rebecca, and to be back in Las Vegas as well. >> Exactly, back in Sin City, right, here we are. So our topic is innovation. A buzzword that is so buzzy it's almost boring. Let's start the conversation with just defining innovation. What does innovation mean? >> An objective, a behavior, a way of working. To me, innovation is what we need to do with modern technology to enable the enterprise and the business world and be creative humans and to use disciplines which we didn't typically bring to work before. >> And is it creativity, or is there sort of logic and rationale too? >> I think there's logic and rationale. But there's also entertainment, fun, modern consumer-like experimentation, risk-taking, things of that nature. >> I think that a big key is actually striking a balance between creativity and logic and rationale and that's the really tricky bit, because you need to give your employees the license to be creative but within a certain set of boundaries as well. >> The rules of work have definitely changed, and behaviors that we encourage, even the clothes we wear, how we work, when we work, those are all characteristic of a more innovative, accepting diverse world, and a world that can keep up with the modern technology and the advancements and the announcements like we're hearing about here at re:Invent. >> It's the ultimate right brain, left brain behavior and activity. So Mike, you've done some research recently about the hallmarks of innovative companies, what they do differently from the ones that are not innovative, that are failing here, so tell our viewers a little bit about what you've found in your research. >> We surveyed 840 executives from a variety of different companies, different industries, different geographies, to understand their approach to innovation, and those who were doing it particularly well, and those maybe not so well. And around about 14 percent of our respondents were turning their investments in innovation into accelerated growth, and there were lots of different reasons for their success but three things really stood out. So first of all their outcome lacked in terms of the way they approach innovation, so they put a clear set of processes around their innovation activities, and then linked those to operational and financial performance metrics. They're also disruption minded, so they're not just pursuing incremental tweaks to their products and services, but their investing in disruptive technologies that could actually create entirely new markets. And then finally they're change orientated. They're not just using innovation to change their products and services, but also to fundamentally change the nature of their own organizations as a whole. >> So 14 percent are knocking it out of the park. Does that mean the rest of them are all laggards or are sort of some in the middle? What is the state of innovation in industry today, would you say, Andrew? >> I would say it's hugely variable by industry, geography, type of company, and individual instance of leader and culture, but I am sure that the most successful companies, those that are pivoting to the new, those that are imaginative, those that have recently arrived, all have that DNA that we're describing, all have that way of working, all have that ability to operate cleverly, intelligently, humorously, and at speed. I think innovation is very much characterized by something that can be fast-failed, do, step, move sideways, do again. The way of working has changed in modern enterprises. We as CIO's have to accept that. We have to speed up. We have to create the environment in where that productivity, where that creation can occur, and I think all of that's key. >> You keep mentioning this, the way of working has changed, and I think we all sort of know what you mean but explain a little bit what you're seeing. >> Experimentation, the ability to get more done with the resources that you have. So here we are at AWS re:Invent, cloud-based operations. Cloud gives you, gives me as a CIO the means to do more, more quickly, more rapidly, on a greater scale, in more places that I ever could have imagined in my old old-fashioned data senses. So the services we can consume, the data we can connect together, the artificial intelligence we can bring to it, the consumer-like experience. All of those things, which by the way, are drawing on innovative behaviors in their own right, are absolutely what the game is about now. >> How does AWS figure into your cloud transformation? >> Well for our cloud transformation at Accenture, AWS is one of the core cloud platform providers who power Accenture. We are nearly 95 percent in cloud. So as an organization that's very pronounced, and typically ahead of most organizations. But we sort of have to be, don't we? I mean, we have to be our own North Star. I can't sit here and explain the virtues of what Accenture can bring to a client's cloud transformation if we haven't already done it to ourselves. And by the way, that drew on innovative approaches, risk-taking approaches because over the last three years we've moved Accenture to the cloud. >> So I love how you said it, we are our own North Star, and other people would say we eat our own dog food, I mean that's just kind of more gross, but in terms of having experienced this transformation yourselves, how do you use what you've learned to help your companies transform as well? And make these moves, take these risks, what would you say to that? >> Well I think we keep an eye on the research with our colleagues there, they're our own North Star. I think we look at the ecosystem, we assess readiness for enterprise, security compliance, scale, availability, and then we also look and say, and what's ready for prime time in terms of Accenture scale, half a million people nearly. You bring all of those things together and it's a recipe, and that's why we consult our business, that's why we guide and educate and experiment and innovate together. And that's very much how we adopted cloud, it's very much how we do a number of other things, and the creative services we have. >> In terms of, let's get back to the research. So how do you, I mean as you said, the research is, as Andrew said, it's something that executive leaders are looking at to figure out what's actually happening in the market as well as what's happening within the organization itself. So how do you set your research agenda in terms of figuring out where you want to focus your time and energy and resources. >> Well I think we do it in a very similar way to in which we consult with clients, we speak to them. We talk to them about some of the key issues that they're facing and we always interview a series of executives and also academics to get their perspective at the start of their project. And that's something that we did in this particular instance and what we heard from many executives was that, to the point that Andrew was making before, the speed and scale of innovation today is happening at a completely different pace than in the past. So product cycle times are just diminishing in every single industry and as a consequence, executives now need to build new innovation units to make sure that they can respond to that changing market. So that's we wanted to explore through the research. >> So in this research, with the 14 percent doing it well, the 86 percent sort of either, somewhere on the spectrum of doing terribly or figuring things out, getting better, what are their pain points, and what's your advice to those companies? >> Well I think, and we take the positive spin on it in terms of what the companies are doing well, one of the points that Andrew was making before was how Accenture works with other partners to become more innovative itself. And that's something that we saw many of the high performing companies doing. So many of them were what we call networks powers. Not just innovating using their own resources, their own people, but their drawing on a broader ecosystem of partners to bring the very best products and services to their customers, and their spending not just on R and D internally but also on accelerators, incubators, technology based M and A, and actually their spending as much on inorganic innovation as they are on organic innovation. >> At Accenture we actually help our clients look for trap value, and what we mean by that is if an organization with a history, with a set of business processes, a set of technologies, and a set of disciplines and employees that have been successful and worked possibly for decades in that model, then they're going to be in some pretty tight guide rails. How do you innovate out of that, to deal with all of the destruction that's now available, good healthy disruption, that actually reveals the next level of efficiency, customer satisfaction, product creativity, and innovation in it's own right, so that's innovation in action, if you like. >> I want to ask, here we are at AWS re:Invent, Andy Jassy on the main stage this morning announcing a dizzying number of new products, services, and AWS, this is Amazon, this is a huge company that really seems to know how to innovate, and do it constantly, but is that is that, can every company be Amazon? You know what I'm saying? I mean, is this really possible and attainable? >> Is such a thing as innovation fatigue perhaps? >> Well, exactly, right! >> My view is that you have to find a way to make innovation a constant and a norm. It doesn't mean that you always will have to operate with the same ridiculous pace, but creativity and pace do go hand in hand to a point, but to be ahead, to stay ahead, and to lead an organization of technologists, who can comprehend all of these announcements, so you have to innovate in both how you lead and operate as well. It's not just your product, it's your behaviors, because there's just so much coming all the time. >> Right, and we've seen a number of large companies, not necessarily technology companies, but I'm thinking of Sears and Toys-R-Us, that have really, you've seen what can happen, the cautionary tales. >> Look at the attrition in the Fortune 500, and you can see how companies have a, a half life now, which perhaps is very different to 20 or 30 years ago. >> Right, right, exactly. Well, Mike and Andrew, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. This was a really fascinating discussion. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, good to see you again. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Magento Imagine 2018. Brought to you by Magento. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. We are continuing our coverage live from the Wynn Las Vegas at Magento Imagine 2018. We've had a really exciting day talking about commerce and how it's limitless and changing dramatically. Joining me next is Sucharita Kodali, the vice president and principal analyst at Forrester. Sucharita, it's great to have you on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me, Lisa. >> So commerce is limitless. We've been hearing this thematically all day. You primarily are working with retailers on their digital strategies. And you've been doing this for a long time. Let's talk about the evolution that you've seen in the retail space with everybody expecting to have access to whatever they want to buy in their pockets. >> Right, right, right. I would say, so I've been working in the retail industry for the last two decades. I've been an analyst for the last 10 plus years. I've really seen a number of changes. And if I had to just summarize the biggest changes, one is just the inventory across different retail channels. So, that's definitely been a huge huge one. It's like, how do you, how do you order online, but then fulfill the item from a physical store or fulfill the item from another store? So those are, that's basically the digital transformation of retailers. Those are investments that companies like WalMart and Target have really been doubling down on and focusing on. The second big change is Amazon. And they single-handedly have transformed the retail industry. They have increased consumer expectations. And what Amazon's also done is reinvented retail as a business model. Because it is no longer about just selling product and being profitable selling that product. Amazon actually is not profitable with a lot of the items that it sells. It makes money in other ways. And it is probably what I would describe as America's first retail conglomerate. And that becomes a really interesting question for other companies to compete, do you have to become a retail conglomerate? Then, the third big change is just brand selling direct to consumer. I remember when I started at Forrester, my very first project was with a large consumer electronics company that asked, Well, should we even sell directly to consumers? There's channel conflict and issues with our distributors. And now, that's not even a factor. It's sort of table stakes you have to sell direct to consumer. And that's probably where we'll continue to see a lot of retail sales in the future. >> So the Amazon model, we expect to be able to get whatever we want whenever we want it, have it shipped to us either at home or shipped to us so we can go pick it up at a store. It's really set the bar. In fact, they just announced the other day that a hundred million Amazon Prime members. I know people that won't buy something if it's not available through Prime. But I think this morning the gentleman that was on main stage from Amazon said at least 50% of their sales are not products they sell, they're through all of the other retailers that are using Amazon as a channel as part of their omni-channel strategy. If you think of a retailer from 20 years ago, how do they leverage your services and expertise and advice to become omni-channel? Because as today, you said essentially it's table stakes for companies to have to sell to consumers. >> Yeah, yeah. There are so many questions that really require, I call it destroying the retail orthodoxies. And retail has historically been about buyers and merchandisers buying goods. There's the old expression in retail, You stack 'em high and watch 'em fly. And that is just where buyers would, Take a company like Toys R Us, they would basically take what Mattel and Hasbro told them to buy. They would buy a ton of it, put it in stores. And because there was less competition back in the '80s, consumers actually would buy that merchandise. And unfortunately, the change for retailers is that consumers have so much more choice now. There's so such more innovation. There are small entrepreneurs who are creating fabulous products, consumer tastes have changed. And this old paradigm of Mattel and Hasbro, or kind of fill in the blank with whatever vendors and suppliers, pushing things is no longer relevant. So, there was just an article in the journal today about how Hasbro sales were down by double digits because Toys R Us is now going to go out of business. So those are the kinds of things that retailers who did not adjust to those changes, they are the ones that really suffer. They don't find ways to develop new inventory, they don't find new channels for growth, and they don't protect their own. They don't build a moat around their customers like Amazon has done, or they don't find ways to source inventory creatively. That's where the problems are. >> You think that's more of a function of a legacy organization; having so much technology that they don't know how to integrate it all together? What do you think are some of the forcing functions old orthodoxies that companies that don't do it well are missing? >> Yeah, it's a lot of it is just in the old ways of doing business. So, a lot of it is being heavily dependent, for instance, on buyers and merchandisers buying things. I mean, one of the biggest innovations that Amazon realized was that, look you can sell things without actually owning the inventory. And that is, their entire, what we call the third party marketplace, and that is just so simple. But if you were to ask a buyer at a major retailer a decade or two ago, "Why do you have to buy the inventory?" their response would be, Well, you have to buy the inventory, that's just the way it is. And it's like, well why? Why don't you try to find a new way to do business? And they never did. But it took Amazon to figure that out. And the great irony of why so many retailers continue to struggle is that Amazon has exposed the playbook on how to sell inventory without owning it. And so few retailers to this day have adopted that approach. And that's the great irony I think, is that that's the most profitable part of Amazon's business is that third party marketplace. And every retailer I've talked to is like, Oh, it's really hard. We can't do that. But, the part of Amazon's business that everyone is looking to imitate is their fast shipping. Which, is the most expensive part of their business. Amazon is only able to afford the fast free shipping because of the third party marketplace. Other retailers want to get the fast free shipping without the marketplace. And it just doesn't make any sense. And that's really the heart of the challenge is that they just don't think about alternative business models. They don't want to change the way that they've historically run their businesses. And some of this could mean that merchants are not as powerful in organizations. And maybe that's part of the pushback is that, there could be a lot of people who lose jobs. The future will be robo-buyers and financial services you have robo-advisors, why not robo-planners in retail? >> So one of the keys then, of eliminating some of the old orthodoxies for merchants is to be able to pivot and be flexible. But it has to start from where in an organization from a digital strategy perspective? Where do you help an organization not fall into the Toys R Us bucket? >> Yeah, I think a lot of it does have to start with merchandising and putting in some interesting digital tools to help merchants be more flexible. So, you want to flex to supply and demand. And some of that comes with integrating marketplaces into your own experience. Some of it can be investing in 3D printers that can make things that are plastic or metals based on demand. That's something that I always wondered why Toy R Us didn't, for instance, make Fidget Spinners on demand. Why did you have to get them with a six month leave time from China, it never made any sense. You can scale service, so use technology to match great store associates with a customer who may have a question. And you don't have to be in the same store. It can be a Facetime call with somebody who is far away. But very few retailers do that. And finally, the last bit is really to look at new alternative business models and finding new ways of making money beyond just selling inventory. >> That's really key because there are so many oppurtunities when companies go omni-channel of not just increasing sales and revenue, but also reducing attrition, making the buying process simple and seamless. Everybody wants one click, right? >> Right. >> Super seamless, super fast, and relevant. It's got to be something if you're going to attract my business, you need to be able to offer something where you know me to a degree. >> Absolutely. >> Or know what it is I might have a propensity to buy. >> Absolutely. And that's the entire area of personalization. And that personalization can be anything from a recommendation that I give you. It can be proactively pushing a recommendation. That's what companies like Stitch Fix do is I tell you what I want and then they send you a box in the mail of things I think you would like and oh, by the way are your size and within your budget. It can be customization. One of Nike's most successful parts of their business is their Nike ID program which allows you to customize shoes according to colors and different sort of embellishments that you may like. And that's exactly the kind of thing that more retailers need to be looking at. >> What are some of the trends maybe that a B2B organization might be able to love or some of the conveniences that we have as consumers and we expect in terms of-- Magento, I was looking on their website the other day and a study that they've done suggests 93 percent of B2B buyers want to be able to purchase online. So, new business models, new revenue streams, but it really is a major shift of sales in marketing to be able to deliver this high velocity low touch model. What are some of the things that a business like a Magento, could learn from say a Nike with how they have built this successful omni-channel experience? >> Well, interestingly I think one of the most important things to recognize is that every B2B buyer is also a B2C buyer. And their expectations are set by their experiences in B2C. So, if you have everything from all of the information at your fingertips, all of that information is optimized for mobile devices. You have different ways to view that information, you have all of your loaded costs, like shipping, or tax, or if there's cross-border. All of the information related to the time to ship, any customs and duties, all of that needs to be visible because in any experience that you have with say a site like Amazon, you're going to get that information. So, the expectation is absolutely there to have it in any situation whether it's B2B or whether it's buying components or kind of very long tail items. That's basically the cost of doing business at this point, is that you have to deliver all of the information that the customer wants and needs. And if you don't, the customer is just going to opt to go purchase that product at whatever destination offers it. >> Somewhere else. >> And somebody will. That's the challenge when you have 800 thousand Plus eCommerce sellers out there selling every product imaginable in the both B2B and B2C landscape. >> So, on the data side there's so much data out there that companies have any type of business to be able to take advantage of that. I know that there's, BI has so much potential. Are you hearing retailers start to embrace advanced analytics techniques, AI machine learning, Where are they with starting to do that? I know that some eyeglass companies have virtual reality augmented reality type of apps where you can kind of try on a pair of frames. Where are you seeing advanced analytics start to be successful and help retailers to be able to target buyers that might say, oh, I can't try that on? No, I want to go somewhere that I can touch and feel it. >> Yeah, well, it's emerging still. I mean, retailers have a lot of data. I think they're trying to figure out where is it most useful. And one of the places where it is incredibly useful is in the backend with fraud management. So, after retailers were forced to put in chip cards as a payment form, what you started to see was more of the fraud shifting to eCommerce. I just had two credit cards that had to be shut off because of E-commerce fraud. But that is where you see the fraudsters going to. And what you see as a result of that is some innovators in that space technology companies really leveraging machine learning, AI, other advanced data techniques to identify fraudulent transactions and to better help retailers eliminate or reduce the percent of transactions that have to then be charged back. So, that's probably one of the most promising areas. There are others that are emerging. We're seeing more visual recognition technologies. House for instance, is excellent at that and Pinterest too. If there's part of an image you like you can click on it or you can tap it and see other images like that. And that's incredibly difficult. And it was even more difficult 10-15 years ago, but it's becoming easier. There's the voice element, voice to text or text to voice. I think that the best applications they're often in customer service, there are so many interactions that happen anywhere in a consumer facing world. It doesn't even have to be within retail. You can think about the complaints to the airline industry or to a bank. And a lot of it falls into a black hole. You always hear that oh, This call may be recorded, but it is really difficult to go back and transcribe that. And to really synthesize that into major themes. And what ML in particular can do is to basically pull out those themes, it can automate all of that, and can give insights as to what you could be doing, what you should be doing, what are the opportunities that you may not have even known existed. So there are definitely emerging places. I mean even a visual recognition, so we talked about House and Pinterest. Another great example is the computer vision that you have in the Amazon Go stores. And there's a robot that the Wal Mart stores are now testing to go find if there are gaps in the inventory that need to be filled. Or if something is running low or out of stock. So there are definitely some interesting applications, but it's still early days for sure. >> So last question, we've got to wrap here, but, we're in April 2018, what are some of the, your top three recommendations for merchants, as they prepare for say Black Friday coming up in what, six or eight months. What are you top three recommendations for merchants to be successful and be able to facilitate a seamless online offline experience? >> Well, we always have kind of imbalances between supply and demand, and that's where I do think things like third party sellers, third party marketplaces are huge. So to be able to leverage that is certainly one opportunity. Another is to think creatively about promotions. In Japan they have these promotions called Fukubukuro promotions, and it's basically like grab bags of like all the left over inventory. But then they basically put it into mystery bags where you can buy it for half off. And consumers line up around the block at stores to go buy these grab bags. Because they also have also like a gamified approach where, you know, one of out 10 of the bags will have like an Ipad or some really high value item. So people really like these things, and they have trading parties. So just new ways of having promotions beyond just the typical door busters that retailers think about. And then kind of third I think is just try to pace out the demand. One of the big issues in E-commerce has been just the burst in demand that always happen in December. And that creates a lot of problems from the standpoint of actually shipping the orders. So the more that you can pull those transaction forward into November, the better off you are from a fulfillment and supply chain standpoint. >> Alright Sucharita thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE >> Thanks Lisa >> And sharing your insights on the trends and what's going on in the commerce and E-commerce space. Really enjoy talking with you. >> Nice to talk to you too. >> We want to thank you for watching. You're watching theCUBE live from Magento Imagine 2018, I'm Lisa Martin. Stick around, I'll be back with my next guest after a short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico. It's the CUBE, covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (upbeat Spanish-style music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here in Puerto Rico for exclusive CUBE coverage, I'm John Furry, you're host. Here, with Blockchain Unbound, this is a global event. From everyone from Silicon Valley, New York, Miami, Russia, Eastern Europe, all over the world, and Puerto Rico coming together, talk about the future of the economy, Blockchain decentralized apps, and more. Our next guest is CUBE alumni, and part of our inaugural crypto currency coverage, from Polycon 18, back to give a command performance, Nithin Eapen Chief Investment Officer at Arcadia Crypto Ventures, good to see you. >> Good to see you too John. >> So, you had a great showing at our first crypto event, PolyCon, great to see you back in the trenches, you're out, hard-working, pounding the pavement, doing deals. What's your analysis here, I mean, you're here networking, you checked out the sessions. What's your take? >> We've met some really good founders, really good projects, so that's the key thing that we are looking for. The main idea as our tagline says, "We back Blockchain's best." We are looking for the best founders. We are looking for the teams, then for the idea. Anything that's decentralized, we are backing them. >> So, network effect has been a big part of the conference I've been having. We talked about security tokens, utility tokens. A lot of interesting things going on here, but there's a backdrop. You've got multiple events going on. You've have Blockchain Unbound, run by Blockchain Industries, great team, which put this event together in five weeks. So, shout out to those guys. >> (laughs) You have Coin Agenda, >> That's coming! going on, another event going next door, which is after this event. And then you have a lot of series of little events, meet-ups, the local community had a great crypto mixer, Puerto Rico, a lot of action. >> Too much action, and it's like at the same time, look at it, TokenFest in San Francisco, another 2,000 people over there, here people are on the waiting list, so much action. >> And that's going on this week, as well. You have anyone going to that event? >> I know, I've got a lot of friends going over there. For me, it made sense, this is closer. I thought I would meet a lot of them. Puerto Rico is better I found, you know? >> A lot of big money here, a lot of smart money. >> A lot of smart money, a lot of big money. >> John: Global? >> Global, and the greatest part of Puerto Rico is, it's bringing this concept like, they have reduced taxes for US people to zero percent for individuals, for the next, until 2036. Now that's a big difference. If you want to change your domicile to Puerto Rico, for your business it's 4% corporate taxes, and individual it's 0% now, that's... >> John: But you got to move here. >> You got to move here, okay. But you don't have to give up your US citizenship. Now, I think what's going to happen right now is they're going to be other states maybe going to compete for this, or other countries are going to compete for the capital to flow, where does capitol flow to? Capital will flow to cheaper places, or lesser taxes. >> So, I got to ask you, I was talking to you earlier this morning, here on the CUBE I said, "There's two killer apps, one of them is money." Money is the killer app. >> No doubt! >> Your reaction to that? >> It is, okay all of our lives, let's say for your son, or my kid, or for me, what my parents, when we went to school, why did they make us go to school or learn, they tell us, "Okay you got to go to college!" Why, they want us to have a better life, they want to have a better car. How do you get them, you want money for them. But in none of those years did somebody teach you, how does money originate? What is money, is it something you should buy the Garmin? So in everything that we go for, unless we're the Buddha or Jesus himself, we do it for money. >> Well you bring up a good point. I mean I have a immigrant background from my family, my wife's family as well. >> Where did you come from? >> Well I'm actually Native American, I mean American. >> Okay But two, three generations back they, Ireland, >> Ireland, okay! French Canadian, a little bit of Armenian in me but that's okay, all kind of blended. I'm in the melting pot, I'm not 1st generation but, in Boston where my parents were from, very much an immigrant town, and they didn't have any money. So if you look at now, what's gone through the financial dot-com bubble, which had some impact, but the financial crisis is 2018, if you look at what's happened since then, the generation of millennials there in more debt. They're not realizing college, it might not be the thing. So we went to school so that we can have a better life than our parents did. Now it's like everyone's realizing that, shit we're screwed. So watching as a path, of freedom. >> It is! A new way to create wealth, capture the value, but in a new way. >> Yes, because you have a chance to be a part of an economy without, a permission of a centralized organization. So, earlier if you wanted to work somewhere, you needed an organization to work. This is making it much easier to be a part of the economy. to contribute, to help people to get help, all this is happening and you don't have to go to school. Maybe school is overrated, our colleges overrated. It is too expensive, you spend 200 thousand dollars on college. What is your ROI, when is your ROI? Maybe some disciplines have it. But this is your chance to.. >> Well, you you know that we love media and our disruptive media at the CUBE is to do things differently, but lets talk about some current events that's been happening. So this week, John Oliver created a video trashing crypto currency, it was actually funny. But it got to the Brock Pierce part, and he really had it out for Brock Pierce. He absolutely destroyed him. >> He did! And since then, he lost his place EOS. They wiped away all his DNA of evidence with the company. This is a comedian, at John Oliver, you're a freaking comedian. What gives him the right to I have that kind of influence on someone's job when he's just telling a joke. There's no actually substance of any facts of any kind at what he's doing, So that's a central authority figure that took an editorial comedic routine, and put it out there, but people think that's news. >> See, >> That's not The power of media, that the power of all the old traditional media, is that they had a bigger reach. I think it's going to change, it is going to be the YouTube's. And it's going to become a decentralized YouTube equivalent, or a decentralized media equivalents. Like, a lot of people have made memes and you know, fun videos that go viral and they'll take things down. The same, John Oliver obviously, he has us laugh. >> He's funny as hell though. He is funny as hell! >> You got to admit, >> He's pretty funny! The bit was really good, >> But end of the day, but he really went after Brock Pierce. Something was going on there, he took him down. >> See the traditional industries or traditional media they want to take down everybody that they don't consider, the birds of a same feather, this is somebody weird, like Trump, they try to take down Trump. They will try to take down anything which doesn't fit their globalist, elitist agenda. End of the day, like Brock Pierce sitting on a billion, and John over with his comedy, who has the bigger laugh? I don't know, if you ask me. >> When you have F U money like Brock Pierce does, I'm sure it rolls off his shoulders. But it does impact the ecosystem a bit. Basically EOS has erased his name in any capacity. So, obviously this impacts to public opinion. So these comedians and news rep, they have an obligation to share the data. Editorializing, I mean I do it all the time, don't get me wrong. >> (laughs) But, there's a point, consensus is part of the algorithm now in these Blockchain and Crypto communities where you have Blockchain as a store, against him. >> Okay! But consensus and transparency is a huge deal. >> Nithin: Yes! >> This is part of the formula. >> I know but see, the whole thing... When John Oliver does something, it's not about consensus. He can do it, okay, it's going to change! It's like this, when Bitcoin came in 2009, the traditionalists were coming up at the story that, "it is fake money, it's not going to go anywhere." Then it became one dollar, they were just laughing at it. Then became 10 dollars, they said it's going to go down. Then it became hundred dollars, they did the same thing. And it's only after long time they will realize, "Oh my God, it's changed." The rock has been pulled under my leg. It's like when Amazon came, all the traditional retail guys said, "Nobody's going to go and buy a book without touching it." Now we have Toys "R" Us that just went bankrupt. There's no more Toys" R" Us, you know, you have to buy your toys pretty much from Amazon at this point. >> Well everything in the model of future will be all contexual so, videos, comedian, news articles, reports, editorial, all will roll into one thing. That's going to be a great thing. >> Yes! >> And media is going to take a lot of, natural language processing, it's going to get transcript link. I think you're already doing it right, you're going to take a transcript of what I speak, you're going to attach the words, you're going to attach it to brands, you can sell that, and that is going to be the future. >> Well lets get some of that intellectual property out of your head and into the camera, and for the audience. What are you hearing in the hallways here, obviously this is a great networking event here. Lot's of agendas, phenomenal, as well as we had over sold almost by double. There's people out in the hallways, it's sold out, so there's a lot of Lobby Con going on. There's a conference within the conference going on. >> Nithin: It is! We call it Lobby Con! >> (laughs) What are you hearing in the hallways, what is some of the cool things that's new to you, that you're discovering? >> So lot of people are now telling me they are very excited about security tokens. They're telling me they're buying security tokens. I asked them, which security tokens? It's not there yet, okay. See, that's where I tend to differ. If security tokens are going to be the big thing, I'm going to be buying it because we are informed. >> John: Buy everything that moves. >> We buy it as it moves, but, security token, my question is, so you're trying to make something that is a utility, now you're going to make it security? So that is equity markets, there is a CC for that. And you're going to fit this in over there, I'm like, I don't know, what are people trying achieve? This is a free market and they're trying to bring it into regulation. >> What's a red flag for you as a, security token implies directly that you're securing something. What are they, >> You're pretty much What are people securing, equity, future cash flows, dividends, what are some of the vehicles you've seen? >> At that time they are pretty much secure, or securing future cash flows as dividends. They're going to give dividends, they're saying if you're a token holder, you're going to get dividends. My question at that time is, then why do you want a token, why can't it be in equity? Oh, you think you can come with their argument that it's more liquid, but equity's a liquid. I don't think it isn't a liquid. But it is a great way to go around and secularize a lot of things. You can have a small business, think of it, you and me we have a small business, let's say we have a partnership We have a small... >> We have a small business, We have a small business, we have a partnership. It's very hard to exit out of a small business. If we can fractionalize the ownership of a business thru tokens, and there might be people are willing to buy, put thousand dollars in, and maybe I can exit at some point. Otherwise there's no exit for me. It's very hard to exit out of a small business. Now then, what's the difference between that and equity? I don't know you know, those lines are blurred but, I'm happy for the fact that something like that will give liquidity to a lot of small business owners. America is a country of small business owners. Across the globe it supports small business owners. If it brings liquidity, okay I'm happy with that. But it's really beating the purpose that we don't want a centralized power controlling us. Because now that you have Google and Facebook that banned crypto-currency ads. Why, Women's Day, all our data, they give us a free access but they hold a lot of our personal data. I'm thinking, the guy who brings in the, a decentralized search or a decentralized social media, I'm going to invest in them. I don't care if their a success or if the success will come later. There are going to be multiple libertarian investors like me that's going to invest in them. >> What I learned was that money is a killer app, and I'll stand by that. I think marketplaces are also the killer app. You ever think, >> Perfectly true! that this conference, that kind of validates where I was thinking was, the people who nailed a business model, that's the critical, critical pacing item. If you screw the business model up, you go sideways. The technology risk isn't as bad as the business model decision risk. So I'm seeing the successful ICOs, or plays, have a lock in on the structural value proposition and to be directionally correct, with an understanding of what the hedge is on the technology. >> Yep! >> So they can manage it. So it's like programmable plumbing. They're recognizing that dynamic. The other thing that I'm learning is that the money flow from other countries is massive. If you want a money launderer from Colombia, it's coming in from Metadine Narcos. It's coming in from Japan, and China. Bitcoin and Blockchain is a money transfer opportunity so, I'm seeing a massive amount of money, flowing in >> Capital is flowing, in massive waves. >> it's flowing in. >> And it's good, and even if these projects fail, it's a good thing because, you had all this money that was stuck somewhere, that flowed in, and as I said, many of those projects are going to fail. Let them fail, because this money has flowed in, you will have a lot of people come and work on these projects, and eventually the correct solution will emerge. >> And new structural dynamics are at play. And new investors are coming in. >> New investors, so many new investors. You know the funny thing John, after we met at Polycon, I think that 99% of the people I meet here are totally new. All the guys we met at Polycon in Bahamas, totally different. I only know very few people that I met over there. So that means a whole set of investors, or common people, who just want to learn about it, totally new. That's really good! And who wins here, the average citizen entrepreneur, the average citizen player that wants to start something whether it's a banking, a service provider of some sort, a entrepreneur, or a new financial instrument or firm, all have greenfield opportunity here. >> Because, see earlier when you wanted to raise money, I was talking to a founder the other day, I asked him, how hard it was for you to raise your first raise, like 10 years ago? He was telling me that he walked the doors across multiple VCs, to kind of scrap in one and a half million dollars. And then he did his second loan after eight years. >> He'd have to crawl on his knees to get that. >> And that too, you won't get the attention, you need to know reference, now you have a chance to go to the world, and monies were, so easy money coming in is a bad thing in a way that most entrepreneurs will feel the investors will lose their money. but that's different, but it at least you have access and you can try to think that you had any in mind earlier. You had no option, they would take a big stake. Now there's no dilution, this is pretty much cloud funding on steroids. You have a chance to go to market, you get the go to market money and see if it works. And if it doesn't work, let's fix it after that. >> Nithin, I got to get your thoughts on building a company, 'cause obviously, you're also not only in this as an investor, you're also doing strategic advisory work for people building the venture architecture and then the actual build up plans for their venture. So you've talked about this in the past, you have a relationship with some protocol guys, you can check with them, there's some good network there. But there's also a dynamic with this industry where the business development aspect of it is really important. People are partnering, >> Very very important. And there's a way to partner and a way not a partner. There's a way to do token economics and there's a way not to do token economics. What is your advice, to companies that have a good thing going on, they have a tail wind at their back, they got wind in their sails, but have to make some hot partnering decisions. Looking for fellows, fellowship in that ecosystem. How do you advise folks in this partnerships and then talk about token economics after? >> So the first thing I would tell founders is to reach out. This community is very very supportive. Like you can reach out to me, you can reach out to other guys, LinkedIn, Facebook, or come to these events, and in the hallways. Say your idea and you need help, because you will need help, you cannot run this alone. You are running a company, you are running your team. Have a good team, that's a first thing. Have a great team, great founders, vision, execution, you need that. The next key thing is, you have to think about marketing and how do you market, you need to get some big names on your board who can reach out to their network and tell them about your idea. And they reach out of the rest for you. >> So networks are super important. >> Super super important, like... >> So advisor, that their advisor selection should be based on their network that they bring to the table. >> Right, so the first advisor selection is the guy who will help you flush out your idea properly as tokens. The next advisor set is a marketing advisor or a technical advisor. The marketing advisers also very important because you need to market the product, get the money in, because end of the day, you need money to build it. You need to pay your employees, whether it's in Bitcoins or in fear, It doesn't matter, one of these is required. So you have these three things, then you need to build strategic partnerships in your business. Say, let's see your a loyalty points guy, like Al is doing, You know Al right? >> Al Burgio, >> From FuZe Chain now doing DigitalBits. Hot deal, hot deal! >> Hot deal, hot deal. >> Look at what Al did, he went out, he got his strategic partnerships with the loyalty guys, now he's got the brand, the strategic partnerships, he's built a product already. The money he needs is only for go to market so that he can push it to multiple companies and get them on the chain. Brilliant idea so, strategic partnerships, advisors, founding team, and then, show the idea to the people. Go out there, let them know that this is what you're doing, why this idea is great, how big is the market, there was a problem that you're solving, what is your solution. Explain yourself frankly and honestly, and I think the community will reward you, to go and find your dream. >> Great point, be honest, ask for help. Again, I can't reiterate my experience of, I'll share, is during the computer revolution, Internet revolution, Web.1.o, and now partnering in the early days when it's forming, can make or break a company. Make or break a company. >> Very True! So, note to that, okay now, token economics. >> Nithin: Sure! >> Sounds easy, but you really got to make sure that you have a good economic framework that matches the value proposition. Talk about what you advise there. >> So last day of the one founder restart to me, ICO is going on for our seventh day into the ICO. He's raised less than 300 thousand dollars. I meet him, and he needs help. After what, seven days into the ICO, all I could tell him is, shut off your ICO, it's not going to raise money. He's like, "Why," and I'm like, he said, "read this paper." I'm like, "There's nothing in this paper "I can put money into." And he's like, "Why is that?" So I asked him, so how many companies has he put his money into, how many points has he bought? Four years, he has not bought a single coin. And he's flustered something by himself. So he's never bought a coin, and he's expecting people to buy coins at his price. So I tell people, either you should notice, you should be an investor yourself. So there are different kinds of investors, there are institutional investors that are funds, family offices, and then are retail investors. If you're not any one of these, or any one of in this group, how do you know what these guys are buying it for? So reach out to them! >> That's where the advisory comes in, Know your customer! >> Know your customer! And not the KYC in a different way, but know 'em from a marketing standpoint. Know how the retail, >> Exactly! purchase is made. >> Because if... >> If you yourself are a buyer, at least you have some idea. If you've never bought a token, and if you're, I had another founder tell me that, my tokens are worth hundred million. I'm like, you don't have a user, you just have a product. You're tokens are worth shite, if you ask me. It's worth zero, I can tell my house is worth hundred million dollars. It's only worth as much as the top buyer. How much is he willing to pay for me? So I told the founder, I'll pay so much for this price because I think, if it's about that, there's a huge risk as the main investor coming in. He doesn't agree! >> So lets talk about some, how rounds are being done now. So one trend that I'm seeing, not, I shouldn't say trend, a few deals I've seen done, but it seems like a trend, I'm trying to get validation on this, Where people are avoiding the public ICO altogether, doing all privates. >> Yes! Basically over subscribed round. Trend, dynamic, real deal, what's your thoughts on reaction to that? >> It's just that the founders are adapting. Because if you go to the public, the moment you're going to the public, what's happening is, there's the SEZ component. Whether it's a utility and they can come after you, so they have made it private. And then they went after, and even further, a lot of the founders that I know, they just stopped accepting money from US entities or US individuals. Well it's a bad deal for a small investor. See the big investors are wealthy investors. They all have an external entity where they can invest into it. What about the small investor who was investing thousand dollars or 5,000 dollars? Now you have pretty much shut out his chance of getting into a great ICO. So the founder is going to raise his money from maybe Korea, Japan, China, and Singapore. He's going to form a company or a foundation in Cayman, or Lichtenstein, or Gibraltar. The small investor is a loser. The large institutional investor has no loss in this process, so, that is the founder adapting because he does not want, >> They want to manage, >> They don't want it to become lawsuits, basically. >> Compliance, audits, SEZ problems, they don't end fencing problems. >> So now let's compare, in contrast, different kind of companies. US based company, wants to raise money in the US, they do accredited. But they want to go outside, say Asia, or an Asia company wants to raise money in the US, what's that dynamic like, what are the issues? >> I think what's going to happen is they going to, some of them are going to register themselves as a security token, some of them are going to do just a reg D for very high net worth individuals. And the common, the the public round, they going to raise it from the China, the Korea, Japan, or is lobbying them. And that's what I think, multiple small countries are going to come into the space, which they know now, they can get the capital flowing into their company, and they going to allow their rules to be lax. They going to let capitol flow through. And then US will have to change, or maybe UK will have to change, whoever is against this will have to change. Capital means money, belt capital, and resource capital, like humans, we tend to move to places that are freer. Why did I move from India to US, or why did your parents or the earlier generation move to US? >> John: For a better life. >> It's a better life, the real better life is, you have the freedom over your property, the fruits of your labor. If the fruits of your labor are taxed at 50% or thirty, the more it goes up, you just don't want to work anymore, or you're going to to search for that place that will tax you less. >> Like Puerto Rico! >> Nithan: Puerto Rico! >> Are you bullish on Puerto Rico? >> I am bullish on Puerto Rico because, these, if they can sustain this, and have the rule of law, means they can protect people's wealth, like from crime and all those things, crime or being kidnapped. These two things happen, I'm telling you, most people will move or some of state will have to change their laws. >> They got to get >> the security up. Nithan, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE. Really appreciate your insight. Thanks for sharing! >> Thank you very much. This is the CUBEs exclusive coverage from Puerto Rico where we're getting on the ground here. Getting all the data from the Blockchain Unbound Conference. Part of restart week. I'm John Furry here, we've got more coverage after this break, thanks for watching! (upbeat electronic music)