>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Welcome back to CUBE 365. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Today we are with Michal Klaus. He is the CEO of Ataccama. Today Ataccama has just launched generation two of Ataccama ONE, a self-driving platform for data management and data governance. We're going to do a deep dive into the generation two of Ataccama ONE. We're going to learn what it means to make data management and governance self-driving and the impact it will have on organizations. Thanks so much for joining us on theCUBE, Michal. >> Thank you, Rebecca. Thanks for having me. >> So you are a technology veteran. You've been CEO of this company for 13 years. Tell our viewers a little bit about Ataccama. >> So Ataccama was started as basically a spinoff of a professional services company. And I was part of the professional services company. We were doing data integrations, data warehousing, things like that. And on every project, we would struggle with data quality and actually what we didn't know what it was called, but it was mastering, you know, scattered data across the whole enterprises. So after several projects, we developed a little kind of utility that we would use on the projects and it seemed to be very popular with our customers. So we decided to give it a try and spin it off as a product company. And that's how Ataccama was born. That's how it all started. And... >> That's how it all started, and now today you're launching generation two of Ataccama ONE. And this is about self-driving data management and governance. I can't hear the word self-driving without thinking about Elon Musk. Can you talk a little bit about what self-driving means in this context? >> So self-driving in the car industry, it will break a major shift into individual transportation, right? People will be able to reclaim one to two hours per day, which they now spend driving, which is pretty kind of mundane, low added value activity. But that's what the self-driving cars will bring. Basically people will be free to do more creative, more fun stuff, right? And we've taken this concept on a high level and we are bringing it to data management and data governance in a similar fashion, meaning organizations and people, data people, business people, will be free from the mundane activity of finding data, trying to put it together. They will be able to use readily made let's say data product, which will be, you know, available. It will be high quality. It will be governed. So that's how we are kind of using the analogy between the car industry and the data management industry. >> So what was the problem that you were seeing in the space? Was it just the way that your data scientists were spending their time? Was it the cumbersome ways that they were trying to mine the data? What was the problem? What was the challenge that you were trying to solve here? >> So there are actually a few challenges. One challenge is basically time to value. Today, when a business decides to come up with a new product or you need a new campaign for Christmas or something like this, there is an underlying need for data product, right? And it takes weeks or months to prepare that. And that's only if you have some infrastructure, in some cases it can take even longer. And that's one big issue. You need to be able to give non-technical users a way to instantly get the data they need. And you don't have that in organizations, basically nowhere at the moment. So that's the time to value. The other thing is basically resources, right? You have very valuable resources, data scientists, even analysts who spend, you know, there is this kind of (indistinct), right? They spend 80% on really preparing the data, and only 20% on the value added part of their jobs. And we are getting rid of the 80% again. And last but not least what we've been seeing, and it's really painful for organizations. You have a very kind of driven business people who just want to deliver business results. They don't want to bother with, you know, "Where do I get the data? How do I do it?" And then you have rightly so people who are focused on doing things in the right way, people focus on governance in general sense, meaning, you know, we have to follow policies. We have to, when integrating data, we want to do it in the right way so that it's reusable, et cetera, et cetera. And there is a growing tension between those two views, worldviews, I would say, and it's kind of really painful, creating a lot of conflict, preventing the business people to do what they want to do fast, and preventing the people who focus on governance, keeping things in order. And again, that's what our platform is solving or actually is actually making the gap disappear completely. >> It's removing that tension that you're talking about. So how is this different from the AI and machine learning that so many other companies are investing in? >> It is and isn't different. It isn't different in one way. Many companies, you know, in data management, outside of data management, are using AI to make life easier for people and organizations. Basically the machine learning is taking part of what people needed to be doing before that. And you have that in consumer applications, you have that in data management, B2B applications. Now the huge difference is that we've taken the several disciplines, kind of sub domains of data management, namely data profiling, data cataloging, data quality management, by that, we also mean data cleansing, and data mastering, and data integration as well. So we've taken all this. We redeveloped, we had that in our platform. We redeveloped it from scratch. And that allows us basically one critical thing, which is different. If you only apply AI on the level of the individual, let's say modules or products, you will end up with broken processes. You will have, you know, augmented data profiling, augmented data cataloging, but you will still have the walls between the products, from a customer's view, it's kind of a wall between the processes or sub-processes, the domains. So the fact that we have redeveloped it, or the reason why we have redeveloped it, was to get rid of those walls, those silos, and this way we can actually automate the whole process, not just the parts of the process. That's the biggest difference. >> I definitely want to ask you about removing those silos, but I want to get back to something you were saying before, and that is this idea that you built it from scratch. That really is what sets Ataccama apart, is that you architect these things in-house, which is different from a lot of competitors. Talk a little bit about why you see that as such an advantage. >> So this has been in our DNA, kind of from day one. When we started to build the core of our product, which is let's say data processing engine, we realize from day one, that it needs to be, you know, high performance, powerful. It needs to support real time scenarios. And it paid off greatly because if you have a product, for example, that doesn't have the real-time capability of slapping on the real time, it's almost impossible, right? You end up with a not so good core with some added functionality. And this is how we build the product gradually, you know, around the data processing, we build the data quality, we build the data mastering, then we build a metadata core next to it. And the whole platform now basically is built on basically on top of three major underlying components. One is the data processing. One is the metadata management core. And one is actually the AI core. And this allows us to do everything that I was talking about. This allows us to automate the whole process. >> I want to ask a little bit about the silos that you were talking about, and also the tension that you were just talking about earlier in our conversation that exists between business people and the data scientists, the ones who want to make sure we're getting everything right and fidelity, and that we're paying attention to governance. And then the people who are more focused on business outcomes, particularly at this time where we're all enduring a global pandemic, which has changed everything about the way we live and the way we work. Do you think that the silos have gotten worse during this pandemic when people are working from home, working asynchronously, working remotely, and how do you think this generation two of Ataccama ONE can help ease those challenges and those struggles that so many teams are having? >> Yeah. Thank you for the question. It's kind of, it's been on my mind for almost a year now, and actually in two ways, one way is how governments, our governments, how they're dealing with the pandemic, because there, the data is also the key to everything, right? It's the critical factor there. And I have to say the governments are not doing exactly a great job, also in the way they are managing the data and governing the data, because at the end of the day, what will be needed to fight the pandemic for good is a way to predict on a very highly granular basis, what is, and what is not happening in each city, in each county, and, you know, tighten or release the measures based on that. And of course you need very good data science for that, but you also need very good data management below that to have real time granular data. So that's one kind of thing that's been a little bit frustrating for me for a long time. Now, if we look at our customers, organizations and users, what's happening there is that, of course, we all see the shift to work from home. And we also see the needs to better support cooperation between the people who are not in one place anymore, right? So on the level of, let's say the user interface, what we brought to Ataccama ONE generation two is a new way users will be interacting with the platform, basically because of the self-driving nature, the users will more or less be confirming what the platform is suggesting. That's one major shift. And the other thing is there is a kind of implicitly built-in collaboration and governance process within the platform. So we believe that this will help the whole data democratization process, emphasized now by the pandemic and work from home and all these drivers. >> So what is the impact? We hear a lot about data democratization. What do you think the impact that will have going forward in terms of what will be driving companies, and how will that change the way employees and colleagues interact with and collaborate with each other? >> We've been hearing about digital transformation for quite a few years, all of us. And I guess, you know the joke, right? "Who is driving the digital transformation for you today? Is it CEO, COO, or CFO? No, it's COVID," right? It really accelerated transformation in ways we couldn't imagine. Now what that means is that if organizations are to succeed, bringing all the processes to the digital realm and all processes means everything from the market-facing, customer-facing customer service, but also all the internal processes you have to bring to the digital. What that really means is you also have to be able to give data to the people throughout the company, and you have to be able to do it in a way that's kind of on one hand safe. So you need to be able to define who can do what, who can see what in the data. On the other hand, you need to have kind of the courage simply to give the data to people and let them do what they understand best, which is their local kind of part of the organization, right? Local part of the process. And that's the biggest value we think our platform is bringing to the market, meaning it will allow exactly what I was talking about. Not to be afraid to give the data to the people, give the high quality instantly available data to the people. And at the same time, be assured that it is safe from the governance perspective. >> So it's helping companies think about problems differently, think about potential solutions differently, but most importantly, it's empowering the employees to be able to have the data themselves, and getting back to the self-driving car example, where we don't need to worry about driving places, we can use our own time for much more value-added things in our lives. And those employees can do the much more value-added things in their jobs. >> Yes, absolutely. You're absolutely right. The digital transformation is kind of followed, or maybe led by the change organizations are managed, right? If you look at the successful, you know, digital-first organizations like the big tech, right, Google, et cetera, you can see that their organization is very flat, which is something else than what you have in the traditional brick and mortar companies. So I think the shift from, you know, hierarchical organization to the more flat, more decentralized way of managing things, companies, needs to be also accompanied by the data availability for people. And you have to empower, as you say, everyone through the organization. >> How do you foresee the next 12 to 24 months playing out as we all adjust to this new normal? >> Wow, that's a pretty interesting question. I won't talk about what I think will be happening with the pandemic. I think we will see, I will talk about it a little bit. I think we will see the waves, hopefully with the amplitudes kind of narrowing. So that's on that side. What I think we will see, let's say in the economy and in the industry, I can comment on from the data management perspective. I think organizations will have to adopt the new way of working with data, giving the data to the people, empowering the people. If you don't do it, there is of course, some let's say momentum, right? When you're a large enterprise with a lot of, let's say, you know, big customer base, a lot of contracts accumulated. It won't go away that fast. But those who will not adapt, they will see a small, like longer gradual decline in their revenues, and their competitiveness in reality. Whereas those small and big ones who will adopt this new way of working with data, we will see them growing faster than the other ones. >> So for our viewers who want to know more about Ataccama's launch, it is www.Ataccama/selfdriving. What is next for this platform? I want you to close this out here and tell us what is next for generation two of Ataccama ONE? >> So we have just launched the platform. It is available to a limited number of customers in the beta version. The GA version is going to be available in spring, in February next year. And we will be kind of speeding up with additional releases of the platform, that will gradually make the whole suite of functionality available in the self-driving fashion. So that let's say a year from now, you will really be able to go to your browser and actually speak to the platform, speak your wish, which we call intent. We call the principle from intent to result. So for example, you'll be able to say, "I need all my customer and product ownership data as an API which is updated every two hours." And without having to do anything else, you will be able to get that API, which means really complex thing, right? You need to be able to map the sources, translate the data, transform it, populate the API, basically build the integration and governance pipeline. So we think we will get to this point, about the same time Elon Musk will actually deliver the full self-driving capability to the cars. >> It's an exciting future that you're painting right now. >> We think so too. >> Excellent, Michal Klaus, thank you so much for joining us today. >> Thank you, Rebecca. >> Stay tuned for more of CUBE 365. >> Thank you. (calm music)

(melodious music) >> Voiceover: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're a virtual this year. But we'll be in real life soon, right around the corner, as we come out of COVID. We got a great guest, a CUBE alumni, Jerry Cuomo, IBM Fellow VP, CTO for IBM automation. Jerry, great to see you. Been on since almost since the early days of theCUBE. Good to see you >> Yeah, John. Thrilled to be back again. Thank you. >> What I love about our conversations, one is you're super technical. You've got patents under your belt. You're on the cutting edge. You've been involved in web services and web technologies for a long, long time. You're constantly riding the wave. And also you're a creator of a great podcast called "The Art of Automation", which is the subject of this discussion. As automation becomes central in cloud operations and Hybrid Cloud, which is the main theme of this event this year and the industry. So great to see you. First give us a little background for the folks that may not know you, about your history with IBM and who you are. >> Yeah. So thanks John. So I'm Jerry Cuomo. I've been with IBM for about three decades and I started my career at IBM research in Yorktown at the dawn of the internet. And I've been incredibly fortunate as you mentioned, to be on the forefront of many technology trends over the last three decades, internet software, middleware, including being one of the founding fathers of WebSphere software. I recently helped launch the IBM blockchain initiative and now all about AI powered automation. Which actually brings me back to my roots of studying AI in graduate school. So it's kind of come full circle for me, really enjoying the topic. >> It's funny you mentioned AI in graduate school. I was really kind of into AI when I was an undergraduate and get a master's degree in Computer Science. I kind of went the MBA route. But if you think about what was going on in the eighties during those systems times, a lot of the concepts of systems programming and cloud operations kind of gel well together. So you got this confluence of computer science and engineering AKA now DevOps, DevSecOps, coming together. This is actually a really unique time to bring back the best of the best concepts. Whether it's AI and systems and computer science and engineering into automation. Could you share your view on this? Because you're in a unique position, you've been there done that, now you're on the cutting edge. What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, absolutely John. And just when you think of automation and time, automation is not new. That literally, if you go into Wikipedia and you look up automation, you see patents and references to like steam engine regulators at the dawn of the industrial era, right? So automation has been around and in its simplest form, automation whether it was back then, whether it was in the eighties or today it's about applying technology that uses technology software to perform tasks that were once exclusively done by us, humans. But now what we're seeing is AI coming into the picture and changing the landscape in an interesting way. But I think at its essence, automation is this two-step dance of both eliminating repetitive mundane tasks that help reduce errors and free up our time. So we get back the gift of time, but also helps. It's not about taking jobs away at that point, it's a sentence of two-step dance. That's step one. But if you stop there, you're not getting the full value. Step two is to augment our skills. And to use automation, to help augment our skills. And we get speed, we get quality, we get lower costs, we get improved user experience. So whether it was back in the steam engine times or today with AI, automation is evolving with technology. >> And it's interesting too, as a student of the history of the computer industry, as you are and now a creator with your podcast, which we'll get to in a second. You're starting to see the intersection of these concerts and not bespoke as much as they used to be. You got transformation, digital transformation and innovation are connected and scale. If you think about those three concepts, they don't stand alone anymore. They can stand alone, but they work better together. Transformation. And it is the innovation, innovation provides cloud scale. So if you think about automation, automation is powering this dynamic of taking all that undifferentiated heavy lifting and moving the creativity and the skillset into higher integrated areas. Can you share your thoughts? >> Yeah, no, right on there. When you talk about transformation, jeez, look around us. The pandemic has made, transformation and specifically digital transformation, the default. So everything is digital. Whether it's ordering a pizza, visiting a doctor through telemedicine, or this zoom WebEx based workplace that we live in. But picture a telemedicine environment, talking about transformation and going digital. With 10 X more users, they can't hire 10 X more support staff. And think about it. I forgot my password, does this work on my version of the Apple iPhone or all of that kind of stuff? So their support desks are lit up, right? So as they scale digitally, automation is the relief that that comes into play, which is just in time. So the digital transformation needs automation. And John, I think about it like this, businesses like cars have become computers. So they're programmable. So automation software just like in the cars, it makes the car self-driving. I think about the Tesla model three, which I recently test drove. So with this digital acceleration, digital opens the door for automation. And now we can muse about self-driving business. We can muse about maybe that's step one, right? That's the remove repetitive work, but maybe we can actually augment business to have an autopilot. So it doesn't need us there all the time to drive. And that's the scale that you talked about. That's the scale we need. So automation is really like the peanut butter and chocolate. Digital is the peanut butter automation is the chocolate. They go well together and they produce amazing tastes. >> Yeah. That's a really interesting insight. And I was just put an exclamation point on that because you mentioned self-driving business you're implying, you said the business is a computer. So if you just think about that mind blowing concept for a second. If it's a computer, what's the operating system and what's the suite of applications that are on top of it? So, okay. Let's go in the old days you had a windows machine and you had office, which was a system software, applications software construct. If you map that to the entire company, you're talking about Red Hat and IBM will kind of come working together. Kind of connects the dots a little bit on what Red Hat could, because they're not breaking system company. So if Hybrid Cloud is the system, edge, hybrid, then you got the application suite is all software for the business. >> That's right. That's right. And if you listen to anything these days about what IBM stands for, it's Hybrid Cloud and think Red Hat as kind of the core element of that with OpenShift and AI. And both of those really matter in terms of automation and maybe I'll come back to the Hybrid Cloud or Red Hat thing in a second, but let's just talk about Watson and AI, which is the application. You mentioned scale, which I'm so glad you did. AI could help scale automation. And the trick is, is that automation sometimes gets stuck. It gets stuck when it's working with data that is noisy or unstructured. So there's a lot of structured data in your organization. With that, we can breeze through automation. But if there is more ambiguous data, unstructured, noisy, you need a human in the loop. And when you get a human in the loop, it slows things down. So what AI can start to do, AI and its subordinates, machine learning, natural language processing, computer vision. We can start to make sense of both unstructured and structured data together and we can make a big deal going forward. So that's the AI part. You mentioned Red Hat and, and Hybrid Cloud Park. Well, think about it this way, when you shop, how many stores do you... You don't just shop in one store, right? You go to specialty stores to pick up that special catsup, I don't know or mustard. (audio cuts) In one store and maybe do shopping in another store. Customers using clouds John, aren't very different. They have their specialty places to go. Maybe they're going to be running workloads in Google, involving search and AI related to search. And they're going to be using other clouds for more specialty things. From that perspective, that's a view of hybrid. Customers today, take that shopping analogy. They're going to be using Salesforce or Servicenow, IBM cloud, they have a private cloud. So when you think about automating that world, it's the real world. It's how we shop, whether it's for groceries or for cloud. The Hybrid Cloud is a reality. And how do you make sense of that? Because when an average customer has five clouds, how do you deal with five things? How do you make it easy, normalize? And that's what Red hat really does. >> It's interesting. I'll just share with you though. When I interviewed Arvin, who is now the CEO of IBM when he was at Red Hat summit 2019 in San Francisco. Before he made the acquisition, I was peppering him with questions. Like, you need to get this cloud and he loves cloud, you know, he loves cloud. So he was smiling. He just wanted to say it, he wanted to just say it. And I think Red hat brings that operating kind of mindset where the clouds are just subsystems in the OS of the middleware, which is now software which is software defined business. And this kind of is the talk of your views. Now you have a podcast called "Art of Automation". We want to get that in there, for the folks watching. Search for the podcast, "Art of Automation". This is the stories that you tell. Tell us some stories, from this phenomena. What's the impact of automation for the holistic picture? >> Well, it starts with a lot of, I guess it starts with customers. The stories start with the customer. So we're hearing from customers that AI and automation is where they're investing in 2021. For all the reasons we briefly mentioned, and IBM has a lot to offer there. So we've made AI powered automation a priority. But John, in the pursuit of making it a priority, I've started talking with many of our subject matter experts and was floored by their knowledge, their energy, their passion, and their stories. And I said, we can't keep this to ourselves. We can't keep this locked away. We have to share it. We have to let it out. So basically this is what started the podcast around that. And since then, we've had many industry luminaries from IBM and outside. Starting with customers. We had Klaus Jensen who is the CIO of Memorial Clones Kettering Hospital to talk about automation in healthcare. And he shared great stories. You need to listen to them, about automation is not going to take the place of doctors. But automation will help better read x-rays and look at those shades of gray on the x-ray and interpret it much better than we can. And be able to ingest all of the up-to-date medical research to provide pointers and make connections that the human may not be able to do in that moment. So the two working together are better than any individual. Carol Polson recently joined me to talk, and she's the CIO for Cooperators, to talk about automation and insurance. And she had some great stories too. So John, with that, a bunch of IBM, great IBM fellows like Rama Akkiraju, who is one of Forbes top 20 women in AI research. Talking about AI ops. And also Ruchir Puri talking, and Ruchir has been working on Watson since jeopardy to tell stories about ultimately now how we're teaching AI to code and all the modern programming languages. And really automating application modernization and the like. Four keyed episodes in, we have those under our belt. About 6,000 downloads so far. So it's coming along pretty well. Thanks for asking, John. >> The key is you're a content creator now, as well as a fellow. And this is the democratization, as we say direct to audience, share those stories. Also here, I think you released an ebook. Tell us a little quickly about that. We've got one minute left, give a quick plug for the ebook. >> The book echoes the podcast. Chapters relate to the episodes of the book. We're dropping the first five chapters plus forward for free on the IBM website. Other chapters will become available and drop as they become available. The book makes the content searchable on the internet. We go into more detail with advice on how to get started. You get to hear the topics and the voice of those subject matter experts. And I really suggest you go out and check it out. >> All right, Jerry Cuomo. IBM fellow VP, CTO, IBM automation. Also a content creator, podcast "Art of Automation." Jerry, we're going to list it out on our Silicon angle and our cube sites, gets you some extra love on that. Love the podcast, love the focus on sharing from experts in the field. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah. Thank you so much for having me again, John. >> Okay, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Here for IBM Think 2021. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity. >> Good morning everyone. You are watching theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite 2019 here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside of Stu Miniman. We are joined by Donovan Brown. He is the Principal Cloud Advocate Manager of Methods and Practices Organizations at Microsoft. (laughing) A mouthful of a title. >> Yes. >> Rebecca: We are thrilled to welcome you on. >> Thank you so much. >> You are the man in the black shirt. >> I have been dubbed the man in the black shirt. >> So tell us what that's all about. You're absolutely famous. Whenever we were saying Donovan Brown's going to be here. "The man in the black shirt?" >> Yes. >> So what's that about? >> So it was interesting. The first time I ever got to keynote in an event was in New York in 2015 for Scott Guthrie, the guy who only wears a red shirt. And I remember, I was literally, and this is no exaggeration, wearing this exact black shirt, right, because I bring it with me and I can tell because the tag in the back is worn more than the other black shirts I have just like this one. And I bring this one out for big events because I was in a keynote yesterday and I knew I was going to be on your show today. And I wore it and it looked good on camera. I felt really good. I'm an ex-athlete. We're very superstitious. I'm like I have to wear that shirt in every keynote that I do from now on because if you look further back, you'll see me in blue shirts and all other colored shirts. But from that day forward, it's going to be hard pressed for you to find me on camera on stage without this black shirt on or a black shirt of some type. And there's a really cool story about the black shirt that was. This is what\ I knew it was a thing. So I pack about six or seven black shirts in every luggage. I'm flying overseas to Germany to go Kampf to do a keynote for, I think it was Azure Saturday. Flights were really messed up. they had to check my bag which makes me very uncomfortable because they lose stuff. I'm not too worried about it, it'll be okay. Check my bag, get to Europe. They've been advertising that the black shirt is coming for months and they lose my luggage. And I am now, heart's pounding out of my chest. (laughing) We go to the airport. I'm shopping in the airport because I don't even have luggage. I cannot find a black shirt and I am just thinking this is devastating. How am I going to go to a conference who's been promoting "the black shirt's coming" not wearing a black shirt? And my luggage does not show up. I show up at the event I'm thinking okay, maybe I'll get lucky and the actual conference shirt will be black and then we're all good. I walk in and all I see are white shirts. I'm like this could not be worse. And then now the speakers show up. They're wearing blue shirts, I'm like this cannot be happening. So I'm depressed, I'm walking to the back and everyone's starts saying, "Donovan's here, Donovan's here." And I'm looking to find my polo, my blue polo I'm going to put on. They're like no, no, no, no Donovan. They printed one black shirt just for me. I was like oh my goodness, this is so awesome. So I put the black shirt on, then I put a jacket on over it and I go out and I tell the story of how hard it was to get here, that they lost my luggage, I'm not myself without a black shirt. But this team had my back. And when I unzipped my shirt, the whole place just starts clapping 'cause I'm wearing >> Oh, I love it. >> a black shirt. >> Exactly. So now to be seen without a black shirt is weird. Jessica Dean works for me. We were in Singapore together and it was an off day. So I just wore a normal shirt. She had to take a double take, "Oh no, is that Donovan, my manager "'cause he's not wearing a black shirt?" I don't wear them all the time but if I'm on camera, on stage you're going to see me in a black shirt. >> Rebecca: All right, I like it. >> Well, Donovan, great story. Your team, Methods and Practices makes up a broad spectrum of activities and was relatively recently rebranded. >> Yeah. >> We've talked to some of your team members on theCUBE before, so tell our audience a little bit about the bridges Microsoft's building to help the people. >> Great. No, so that's been great. Originally, I built a team called The League. Right, there's a really small group of just DevOps focused diehards. And we still exist. A matter of fact, we're doing a meet and greet tonight at 4:30 where you can come and meet all five of the original League members. Eventually, I got tasked with a much bigger team. I tell the story. I was in Norway, I went to sleep, I had four direct reports. I literally woke up and I had 20 people reporting to me and I'm like what just happened? And the team's spanned out a lot more than just DevOps. So having it branded as the DevOps Guy doesn't really yield very well for people who aren't diehard DevOps people. And what we feared was, "Donovan there's people who are afraid of DevOps "who now report to you." You can't be that DevOps guy anymore. You have to broaden what you do so that you can actually focus on the IT pros in the world, the modern operations people, the lift and shift with Jeremy, with what Jeramiah's doing for me right, with the lift and shift of workloads . And you still have to own DevOps. So what I did is I pulled back, reduced my direct reports to four and now I have teams underneath me. Abel Wang now runs DevOps. He's going to be the new DevOps guy for me. Jeramiah runs our lift and shift. Rick Klaus or you know the Hat, he runs all my IT Pro and then Emily who's just an amazing speaker for us, runs all of my modern operations. So we span those four big areas right. Modern operations which is sort of like the ops side of DevOps, IT pros which are the low level infrastructure, diehard Windows server admins and then we have DevOps run by Abel which is still, the majority of The League is over there. And then we have obviously the IT pros, modern ops, DevOps and then the left and shift with Jeramiah. >> I'd like to speak a little bit as to why you've got these different groups? How do you share information across the teams but you know really meet customers where they are and help them along 'cause my background's infrastructure. >> Donovan: Sure. >> And that DevOps, was like that religion pounding at you, that absolutely, I mean, I've got a closet full of hoodies but I'm not a developer. Understand? >> Understood. (laughs) It's interesting because when you look at where our customers are today, getting into the cloud is not something you do overnight. It takes lots of steps. You might start with a lift and shift, right? You might start with just adding some Azure in a hybrid scenario to your on-prem scenario. So my IT pros are looking after that group of people that they're still on prem majority, they're trying to dip those toes into the cloud. They want to start using things like file shares or backups or something that they can have, disaster recovery offsite while they're still running the majority of what they're doing on-prem. So there's always an Azure pool to all four of the teams that I actually run. But I need them to take care of where our customers are today and it's not just force them to be where we want them tomorrow and they're not ready to go there. So it's kind of interesting that my team's kind of have every one of those stages of migration from I'm on-prem, do I need to lift and shift do I need to do modern operations, do I need to be doing full-blown DevOps pull all up? So, I think it's a nice group of people that kind of fit the spectrum of where our customers are going to be taking that journey from where they are to enter the cloud. So I love it. >> One of the things you said was getting to the cloud doesn't happen overnight. >> No, it does not. >> Well, you can say that again because there is still a lot of skepticism and reluctance and nervousness. How do you, we talked so much about this digital transformation and technology is not the hard part. It's the people that pose the biggest challenges to actually making it happen. >> Donovan: Right. >> So we're talking about meeting customers where they are in terms of the tools they need. But where do you meet them in terms of where they are just in their approach and their mindset, in terms of their cloud readiness? >> You listen. Believe it or not, you can't just go and tell people something. You need to listen to them, find out what hurts and then start with that one thing is what I tell people. Focus on what hurts the most first. Don't do a big bang change of any type. I think that's a recipe for disaster. There's too many variables that could go wrong. But when I sit down with a customer is like tell me where you are, tell me what hurts, like what are you afraid of? Is it a compliancies? Let me go get you in contact with someone who can tell you about all the comp. We have over 90 certifications on Azure. Let me. whatever your fear is, I bet you I can get you in touch with someone that's going to help you get past that fear. But I don't say just lift, shift, move it all like stop wasting, like no. Let's focus on that one thing. And what you're going to do is you're going to start to build confidence and trust with that customer. And they know that I'm not there just trying to rip and replace you and get out high levels of ACR. I'm trying to succeed with you, right, empower every person in every organization on the planet to achieve more. You do that by teaching them first, by helping them first. You can sell them last, right? You shouldn't have to sell them at all once they trust that what we we're trying to do together is partner with you. I look at every customer more as a partner than a customer, like how can I come with you and we do better things together than either one of us could have done apart. >> You're a cloud psychologist? Almost, right because I always put myself in their position. If I was a customer, what would I want that vendor to do for me? How would they make me feel comfortable and that's the way that I lead. Right, I don't want you going in there selling anything right. We're here to educate them and if we're doing our job on the product side, the answer is going to be obvious that you need to be coming with us to Azure. >> All right. So Donovan, you mentioned you used to be an athlete? >> Donovan: Yes. >> According to your bio, you're still a bit of an athlete. >> Donovan: A little bit, a little bit. >> So there's the professional air hockey thing which has a tie to something going on with the field. Give us a little bit of background. I've got an air hockey table in my basement. Any tips for those of us that aren't, you know? You were ranked 11th in the world. >> At one point, yeah, though I went to the World Championships. It was interesting because that World Championships I wasn't prepared. My wife plays as well. We were like we're just going to go, we're going to support the tournament. We had no expectations whatsoever. Next thing you know, I'm in the round playing for the top 10 in the world. And that's when it got too serious for me and I lost, because I started taking it too serious. I put too much pressure on myself. But professionally, air hockey's like professional foosball or pool. It's grown men taking this sport way too seriously. It's the way I'd describe it. It is not what you see at Chuck E. Cheese. And what was interesting is Damien Brady who works for me found that there is an AI operated air hockey table here on this floor. And my wife was like, oh my gosh, we have to find this machine. Someone tape Donovan playing it. Six seconds later, my first shot I scored it. And I just looked at the poor people who built it and I'm like yeah, I'm a professional air hockey player. This thing is so not ready for professional time but they took down all my information and said we'd love to consult with you. I said I'd love to consult with you too because this could be a lot of fun. Maybe also a great way for professionals to practice, right, because you don't always have someone who's willing to play hours and hours which it takes to get at the professional level. But to have an AI system that I could even teach up my attack, forcing me to play outside of my comfort zone, to try something other than a left wall under or right well over but have to do more cuts because it knows to search for that. I can see a lot of great applications for the professionalized player with this type of AI. It would actually get a lot better. Literally, someone behind me started laughing. "That didn't take long" because it in six seconds I had scored on it already. I'm like okay, I was hoping it was going to be harder than this. >> I'm thinking back to our Dave Cahill interview of AI for everyone, and this is AI for professional air hockey players. >> It is and in one of my demos, Kendra Havens showed AI inside of your IDE. And I remember I tell the story that I remember I started writing software back in the 90s. I remember driving to a software store. You remember we used to have to drive and you'd buy a box and the box would be really heavy because the manuals are in there, and not to mention a stack of floppy discs that you're going to spend hours putting in your computer. And I bought visual C++ 1.52 was my first compiler. I remember going home so excited. And it had like syntax highlighting and that was like this cool new thing and you had all these great breakpoints and line numbers. And now Kendra's on stage typing this repetitives task and then the editor stops her and says, "It looks like you need to do this a little bit more. "You want me to do this for you?" And I'm like what just happened? This is not syntax highlighting. This is literally watching what you do, identifying a repetitive task, seeing the pattern in your code and suggesting that I can finish writing this code for you. It's unbelievable. >> You bring up a great point. Back when I used to write, it was programming. >> Yes. >> And we said programming was you learn the structure, you learn the logic and you write all the lines of what's going to be there. Coding on the other hand usually is taking something that is there, pulling in the pieces, making the modification. >> Right. >> It sounds like we're talking about even the next generation where the intelligence is going to take over. >> It's built right inside of your IDE which is amazing. You were talking about artificial intelligence, not only for the air hockey. But I love the fact that in Azure, we have so many cognitive services and you just like pick these off the shelf. When I wanted to learn artificial intelligence when I was in the university, you had to go for another language called Lisp. That scared half of us away from artificial intelligence because you have to learn another language just to go do this cool thing that back then was very difficult to do and you could barely get it to play chess, let alone play air hockey. But today, cognitive services search, decision-making, chat bots, they're so easy. Anyone, even a non developer, can start adding the power of AI into their products thanks to the stuff that we're doing in Azure. And this is just lighting up all these new possibilities for us, air hockey, drones that are able to put out fires. I've just seen amazing stuff where they're able to use AI and they add it with as little as two lines of code. And all of a sudden, your app is so much more powerful than it was before. >> Donovan, one of the things that really struck me over the last couple years, looking at Microsoft, is it used to be, you'd think about the Microsoft stack. When I think about developers it's like, oh wait are you a .NET person? Well, you're going to be there. The keynote this morning, one of your team members was on stage with Scott Hanselman and was you know choose your language, choose your tools and you're going to have all of them out there. So talk to us a little bit about that transition inside Microsoft. >> Sure. One of the mantras that I've been saying for a while is "any language, any platform". No one believes me . So I had to start proving it. I'm like so I got on stage one year. It was interesting and this is a really rough year because I flew with three laptops. One had Mac OS on it, one of them had Linux on it and one of them had Windows. And what I did is I created a voting app and what I would do is I'd get on stage and say okay everyone that's in this session, go to this URL and start voting. They got to pick what computer I use, they got to pick what language I programmed in and they got to pick where in Azure-eyed I deployed it to. Was it to an app service was it to Docker? I'm like I'm going to prove to you I can do any language in any platform. So I honestly did not know what demo I was going to do. 20 minutes later, after showing them some slides, I would go back to the app and say what did you pick? And I would move that computer in front of me and right there on stage completely create a complete CI/CD pipeline for the language that that audience chose to whatever resources that they wanted on whatever platform that they wanted me. Was like, have I proven this to you enough or not? And I did that demo for an entire year. Any language that you want me to program in and any platform you want me to target, I'm going to do that right now and I don't even know what it's going to be. You're going to choose it for me. I can't remember the last time I did a .NET demo on stage. I did Python this week when I was on stage with Jason Zander. I saw a lot of Python and Go and other demos this year. We love .NET. Don't get us wrong but everyone knows we can .NET. What we're trying to prove right now is that we can do a lot of other things. It does not matter what language you program in. It does not matter where you want to deploy. Microsoft is here to help you. It's a company created by developers and we're still obsessed with developers, not just .NET developers, all developers even the citizen developer which is a developer which is a developer who doesn't have to see the code anymore but wants to be able to add that value to what they're doing in their organization. So if you're a developer, Microsoft is here to help full-stop. It's a powerful mission and a powerful message that you are really empowering everyone here. >> Donovan: Right. >> Excellent. >> And how many developers only program in one language now, right? I thought I remember I used to be a C++ programmer and I thought that was it, right. I knew the best language, I knew the fastest language. And then all of a sudden, I knew CSharp and I knew Java and I knew JavaScript and I brought a lot of PowerShell right now and I write it on and noticed like wow, no one knows one language. But I never leave Visual Studio code. I deploy all my workloads into Azure. I didn't have to change my infrastructure or my tools to switch languages. I just switched languages that fit whatever the problem was that I was trying to solve. So I live the mantra that we tell our customers. I don't just do .NET development. Although I love .NET and it's my go-to language if I'm starting from scratch but sometimes I'm going to go help in an open source project that's written in some other language and I want to be able to help them. With Visual Studio online, we made that extremely easy. I don't even have to set up my development machine anymore. I can only click a link in a GitHub repository and the environment I need will be provisioned for me. I'll use it, check in my commits and then throw it away when I'm done. It's the world of being a developer now and I always giggle 'cause I'm thinking I had to drive to a store and buy my first compiler and now I can have an entire environment in minutes that is ready to rock and roll. It's just I wish I would learn how to program now and not when I was on bulletin boards asking for help and waiting three days for someone to respond. I didn't have Stack Overflow or search engines and things like that. It's just an amazing time to be a developer. >> Yes, indeed. Indeed it is Donovan Brown, the man in the black shirt. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> My pleasure. Thank you for having me. >> It was really fun. Thank you. >> Take care. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. (upbeat music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen, brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage here, Adele. Technology rule in Las Vegas. I'm John for Developed, a special guest. Michael Dell, Chairman, CEO, Del Technologies Cube. Alumni. Great to see you again. Yearly pilgrimage. People can come on the Cube. Good to see you again. Thanks. May always >> Great to be with you guys. >> All right, So I gotta ask you because, you know, Dave and I were talking on yesterday's kickoff on our intro about the conversation we had. I think six years ago we saw you standing there in Austin, but still a public company didn't go private yet. And then the series of moves going private and we're like, That's great. Get behind the curtain. Get things reset. Look at the cash flows. Looking good. You had the clear plan as the founder and CEO is kind of a new kind of reset, if you will. And then up to now the execution in just the series of moves. When you look back now where you are today, where you were then how do you feel? What's absurd? What did you learn? What's some of the highlights for you? >> Well, look, we feel great, You know, our business is really grown tremendously. It's all the things we've been doing has been resonating with customers have been ableto, I would say, restored the origins of the entrepreneurial dream and success of the company and reintroduce, uh, innovation and risk taking into, ah, now ninety one billion dollars company growing in double digits last year and certainly the set of capabilities. That way, we've been able to build organically and in organically on DH with set of alliances. We have the trust that customers have given us, you know, super happy about the position that we're in and the opportunities going forward. As I've said, you know, a zay said Mikey. No, yesterday. I think all this is really just the pregame show. Tow what's ahead for our industry and for the role that technology is going to play in the world. >> And the role of data you mentioned also used to quote you Yes, that you said data a CZ the life, blood of digital transformation of the heartbeat, visual transformation and It's also revitalizing all the other components of what looked like a consolidated market is now actually being reborn the PC, technology, infrastructure, fabrics and other software opportunity. So Data has kind of brought in a whole nother level of kind of revitalisation and the industry, which is actually causing more investment in what looked like older category of you know it and computers whatnot. This's been a big, big tailwind for you guys. >> Well, data has always been at the centre of you know how the technology industry works and now we just have a tsunami explosion of data. And of course, now we have this new computer science that allows us Teo reason over the data in real time and create much better results in outcomes and that combined with the computing power, all organizations have to reimagine themselves, given all these technologies and certainly the infrastructure requirements in terms of the network, you know, the storage, that computer bill out of the edge, tons of new requirements, and we're super well positioned to go address all that. >> I enjoyed your keynote, Michael. So I thought it was excellent. One of your better ones and you painted a picture of tech for good. Uh, really life changing things that you guys and your customers are doing. You gave some examples that be an example of example was great Draper Labs. But you also paid a picture. You need a platform for this digital transformation. We've seen the numbers. Eighty percent of the workloads are still on Prem. What do you think that looks like ten years down the road? What do you What's your vision say? >> Well, the surprise outcome ten years from now is they'LL be something much bigger than the private cloud and Public Cloud. It's the edge and actually think that would be way more computer data on the edge in ten years than any of the, you know, derivatives of cloud that we want to talk about. So that's a ten year prediction. Yeah, that's that's That's kind of what I see. And maybe maybe nobody's predicting that this yet, But, you know, let's come back in ten years and see what it looks like. >> So I like to do that hybrid hybrid. Klaus been around for a while, but talked about. It's been kind of operating, Ma. We see that multi cloud is really kind of surged in importance in conversations because I think people wake up and go. Hey, I got multiple clouds. I got azure over here for ofthis three sixty five. I got some Amazon over here. I got some home grown stuff over here. I got a data center so that people kind of generally Khun, Khun, relate to the reality of multi cloud hybrid. Live it more of a different kind of twist, but certainly relevant. But multi cloud has got everyone's attention and you guys launched Del Cloud. Is that a multi cloud, or is that a cloud to multiple clouds? Explain your view on that and where this goes. >> So really, what we're doing is we're bringing to customers. All the resource is they need to operate in the hybrid, multi cloud world. And first, you have to recognize that the workloads want to move around and to say that they're all going to be here, or there is in some sense, missing the point because they're going to move back and forth. And, uh, you know, you've got regulation cost security performance late and see all sorts of new requirements that air coming at you and they're not going to just sit, sit in one place. Now, as you know, with via Work Cloud Foundation, we have the ability to move these workloads seamlessly across. Now, essentially all the public clouds, right. Forty, two hundred partners out there infrastructure on premise built and tuned specifically for the VM wear platform and empowered also for the edge and a love. This together is the Del Technologies Cloud. We have obviously great, uh, capabilities from our Delhi emcee infrastructure solutions and all the great innovations that Veum where coming together >> scale has been a topic. We talked on the Cube many years. We saw Amazon get scale with public cloud scales of competitive advantage is now becoming kind of table stakes both for customers trying to figure out how to operate a digital scale, speed a life. You guys have a scale level now that's pretty impressive. What you guys done with the puzzle pieces, You cut puzzle pieces, you know, cos capabilities now across the board, as you guys look at scale is a competitive advantage, which it is, and we talked about this before. You now have to integrate seamlessly in these pieces. So as you compose as customers compose the variety of capabilities. It's gotta be frictionless. That's a goal. How do you look at that? How do you talk to your team's about this on DH? What's your view on scale? And is this something you guys talk about inside the company? >> Well, inside the business, you know, the first priority was to get each of the individual pieces working well. But then we saw that the real opportunity was in the scenes on how we could more deeply integrate all the aspects of what we're doing together. And you saw that on stage, you know, in vivid form yesterday with Pat and Jeff and Sasha and even more today again. And there's more to do. There's, although there's always more to do. Were working on how we build a gate, a platform bringing together all of our capabilities with Bhumi and data protection on DH bm wear, and this is all going to be super important way. Enter this A I enabled age of the future. >> Michael, you got a track record of creating shareholder value. We're big fans of, you know, we'LL have CNBC on in the office and Michael's on everybody coming across, right? Davos? Picky, Quick. We're also big fans have asked you to sort of knocked down to three criticisms. And sure, it was really a conversation about stock price, you know? And you Did you knock down the debt structure? The low margin business, the ownership structure, its center. But you never came backto stock price, so it looks like a couple of ways to invest. Now VM wear directly. Also looks like Veum where you could you could buy cheaply through Del What your thoughts on on that? You know where Dell sits in the market today? Its value. >> I think. You know, investors are increasingly understanding that we've created an incredible business here and certainly, you know, if we look at the additional coverage that we have and you know, they're they're a CZ their understanding, the business, you know, some of the analysts are starting to say, Hey, this doesn't really feel like a conglomerate. Direct quote. Okay. And, uh, if you think about what we demonstrated today, yesterday and we'LL demonstrate the future, you know, we're not like Berkshire Hathaway or, uh you know, uh, this is not a railroad that owns a chain of restaurants. This is one integrated business that fits together incredibly well, and you know it's generating substantial cash flows. And, you know, I think investors overtime are figuring out value. That's intrinsic. Teo, the overall Del Technologies family now wave Got lots of ways to invest, right? Get, Be aware. SecureWorks pivotal. And, of course, the overall Del Technologies. >> Yeah, and just a follow up on that. I mean, I've observed on the margin side I mean, when del went private, it was around nineteen percent gross margins. Now you're in gross margin heaven, you know, absorbing the emcee. And it seems to be headed in the right right direction. So it's a nice mix >> know, in our in our cloud, an infrastructure group, almost ninety percent of the engineers are software engineers. And so you think aboutthe innovations you saw in states today with power Macs and Unity, X T and our power protect platform. You know, basically all software running on power power it surfers and platforms that we've created. >> What's on your plate now, Michael? As you come out, come out of Del Technologies world. You got business to take care of what your goals what's on your plate. What's your object? Is what you trying to accomplish in the next year? >> Well, certainly continuing to execute for our customers growing faster than the industry. You know, maintaining and improving our customer NPS levels and keeping the innovation engine cranked up on high. You saw a lot today on DH yesterday. Stay tuned, Veum. World's coming in in August and they'LL be much, much more way Continue toe innovate together Lucy with Veum where so we've got we've got lots more in the cube >> and you got cash will come in, which means your suppliers to a lot of customers Congratulations. I want to get your final thought on my final question on the Tech for good One of the things I saw yesterday on the Kino that you gave was that popped out wass. It wasn't about the speeds and feeds around, you know, the performances get great performance on the tech side. You gotta be, you know, the infrastructure level Scott be performing, but it's about solving problems. And I think this is a direction that you're taking the company saying there's outcomes out there. The problems that can be solved with tech We're hearing a whole tech for bad narrative in the media these days. Tax evil text. Bad. But there are awesome spots where technology is creating great things for society. This is a theme for you. Can you share? Why that focus? And when some of the highlights >> it's right. I mean, if you if you step back from the what happened in the last twenty four hours, twenty four days and even twenty four months, you start looking at, you know, twenty four years you start to see is thie. Outcomes for humanity have gotten dramatically better, and technologies played an enormous role in that. I'm massively optimistic that in the next three decades they're going to be really miracles. In terms of how do you dress things like deafness and blindness and paralysis with a I and embedded technology inside the body. The, you know, things were able to do now with sequencing the genome and using all this data to create personalized medicine solutions. Yes, technology can be used for bad, but the vast majority of it is used for good by people that have good in their hearts. Right. And and, uh, you know, uh, it goes beyond making great businesses and making people more productive. It's actually changing lives and very positive ways, >> while the other big narrative in the pressure here is automation and taking away jobs. And it's a serious concern. However, you know there's no reason to protect the past from from the future and this great opportunities ahead education and someone, even you and Susan but big supporters of that, obviously. So we're optimistic for the future. I know I know you are. The best is yet to come. As I'd like to say >> Absolutely, we agree. >> Once an entrepreneur, always an entrepreneur, you great entrepreneurial track record you celebrate thirty five years from the original dorm room. So some of your Facebook posts now here he took a business that you knew T mature couple players. This is a trend we're seeing. Zoom communication just went public. They took video streaming and holding meetings and completely when cloud base and disrupted it. You saw >> runs on Dell EMC by the way >> runs on Dell, did not know that it's only a lot of Michael great, but this is an entre. I want to get your advice to other articles that might be watching us because you now, with the technology with data and cloud and tech, you, Khun, go into existing markets that don't look good on paper that people might dismiss as that's over. That's a mature market You've certainly taken Del Technology's got all the pieces and are executing at a home of the level. Zoom did it for video on the cloud. There are zillions of these opportunities out there that entrepreneurs. So the advice don't be discouraged by what looks like a big fat market. So your what's your advice?  >> and I I feel something is coming. That's quite significant. And right now you mentioned this new wave of companies that air coming public and they were built on a foundation of technology infrastructure capabilities. You know that was established, Let's say, ten years ago. Okay, well, right now we're just at the kind of beginning of five G and A II technology, and all these embedded sensors and low latent see communications, and there will be a whole another wave of cos I suspect many, many more across all industries that, you know, just unlock all kinds of new capabilities and an opportunity. So I'm super excited about that. Andi, I think I think it's it's just going to get more interesting. >> It's amazing to think of the tools you had thirty five years ago, when you started and how you've transformed. So congratulations. >> Thank you. Spend the time again. Thanks for having us again here. Tenth year, Del Technologies. Well, thanks for having us. And great to have a conversation. >> Thank you. And the rest of the cube team for all your great coverage. >> Thank you very much. Michael Dell, Chairman, CEO, Dell Technology here. David Velante myself, John Furrier. Stay tuned for more day to coverage. We got two sets here. It's a cube canon of content blown out. The content here, Adele Technology, world Check out Dell's hashtag del tech world for all the highlights will be right back after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Accelerate 19. Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live in Orlando, Florida for Fortinet Accelerate 2019. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host for the day Peter Burroughs. Peter and I are pleased to welcome back to theCUBE Patrice Perche, the senior executive vice president of world wide sales and support from Fortinet. Patrice, it's a pleasure to have you, fresh from the Keynote Stage, here on theCUBE program. >> Yeah, well thank you for inviting me here. It's a great opportunity. >> So lots of people this morning and an energy infused keynote starting from all this loud music that I loved and helped wake me up, so thanks to your events team for that. About 4000 attendees, >> Patrice: Yeah. >> From 40 countries. You have a ton of partners here. You can hear a lot of the noise behind us. I'd like you to share with our audience the connection that you made in your keynote about what you guys shared last Accelerate 2018 and the connection to the world economic forum from just a few months ago. >> Okay well, the last year we definitely in fact exposed our strategy in term of the product, in term of the go to market and of course how we can increase in fact the value proposition to our customer, it was all about the fabric and the eco-system that we build around the fabric. So we have been of course since now 12 months working hard on expanding and growing what I call the Phase two of the fabric and when Cain went to Davos which the World Economic Forum is held early in January. And when we got all this, I would say a vision from Klaus Schwab which is the Chairman and Founder of the World Economic Forum. Explaining that the false revolution that we are all going through. The Cyber Security its a massive, I would say problem for them and it will be a key point for the future because they will enable, in fact, most of those take technology and use it that we will go for this revolution, so >> Peter: It's intrinsic. >> It's intrinsic, they call it guardian. So it really is something that if we can't, fix this problem, it's all about digital trust. So none of the user, you, myself we will not trust maybe voting system, or you cannot trust. We know that everything is going digital. And they expressed the need for of course the education, because you need to educate and you need to, increase the skilled people especially with cyber-security as we have a huge shortfall about 1.5million, some say even two million for next year. They need also need to work as an eco-system. So, for them the eco-system is really to see public, private collaboration but also Government, technologies, companies like us. And that's in fact the purpose of Davos. To bring all this different, in fact groups and be able to talk and share and define some line for the future. And for us of-course, the concept of the eco-system is all about building around in fact this major problem that we are facing, has all the traits. In fact, a collective approach where everybody can add value. We as a vendor we build technology, we build a lot of value but we can't be with each of the customers. So and we want to build a partnership not only with the partner but also with the customer because cyber security is a real time problem. So when something happen, you need to jump, and you need to make sure that all the line is set and then everybody can work together to fix the problem. So this eco-system really resonates value well for us after we was talking last year at the Accelerate. And the last I will say pillar for the Economic Forum is about of course Education and clearly I was mentioning one of the Engineers from the SERP which is nuclear agency in Europe Januity she said that 3D, of course the problem is that with these robots we will have a lot of jobs that will be omitted. So they talk about 800 million. So it's a massive number but it sees more than an opportunity to up-skill people. So the education is really helping of course especially the young generation to go and to up-skill it and especially on the cyber security. Because, as everything is going digital, we have to secure everything so it's really, these pieces will grow much beyond that what we think today. Those three pillars are the Education, the Eco-system and of course the Technology. And the good news is that Ken was representing in fact cyber security at the Davos, so it was also a great moment for us to see in fact pushing 14 at that stage of level of discussion so. Those three pillars: Education, Technology and Eco-system of course fit very well with our strategy that we build and that's why I decided to share a bit this morning. It's not everybody going to such a place. And what really resonate well in term of the strategy and the vision we are in fact pursuing so that's what we are doing. >> So I want to build on something that you said to do so I want to paraphrase. Peter who is much smarter than I am, Peter Drucker who observed many years ago there's a difference in strategies between what he called: value in exchange was his presumption that what I am selling is valuable. And value in utility which is a presumption that the value stems from how the something is used. And that notion of partnership that Fortinet has put in place with its customers so they can get value in utility is so crucially important. And you talked a bit this morning about you know the different levels of customization, and how you are going to allow customers to engage you and apply technology to suit their business. Could you take a bit about that especially based on your experience in the field? >> Yeah so as I mention I think we, it has been also our sales strategy from day one. So we always consider that in order to succeed, we need to work through the partners and through the people that are very close to our customer. And as technology evolves of course it's a real challenge to keep them at the level. Even for us, internally, we used to understand and be always at the top level about the new technology that we are putting in place. We imagine that, just for the employees, it's a challenge so we do a lot of training. But then for the partner it's another challenge. So, I think we have been always trying to help them to of course evolving on this expertise, but we don't see that the cloud of course there is a certain I will say a trend about Okay lets go Direct because we don't. The cloud can allow to sell direct to the customer so you don't need those channels. So there's no value for them. We don't see that in the cyber security because it's a much more complex environment and I think that is why we have been successful. We even see some of our competitor, they tempted to go on this direction. I think it's maybe one of the challenges we'll face in the future. So for us they key message I was trying to give this morning to the partner is really that we count on them, it's a partnership, it's very important and of course when we adapt our partner program we want to learn from them to make sure that the three pillars of this program will fit well with their, in fact, view because of course we are from a vendor in certain perspective, they have of course a different perspective on their side. What I was mentioning the goal to market because we see that some are very specialized on the cloud, some are specialized on the premise. We have to define what is the go to market here. What kind of expertise there are in fact having because as you can see we have very broad product of frame cover, you know from almost everything, so from OT, IT, even imbedded. So, we are working with partners that are, as an example, on the connected car. That's for maybe the next two years where we will secure those car. They are not the typical or traditional partner that you see on the networking business so, we try to adapt in fact our engagement with them and make sure that in fact we build a value proposition that can fit in fact for the customer requirement. So it's really about be very close and try to have a bit of a-la-carte kind of approach. And not try to enforce a very historical view that we had in fact, to be honest. But okay, you have like three tiers, depending of level of business and then you sign. So it's really moving away from that. >> I want to stay in this notion of partners because I think it's so crucially important. You talked about the skills that they have the capabilities that they have, but your partners in general are amongst the companies that have to learn the most about cyber security. Because they are the ones that are trying to match technology to the outcomes the customers have. That leads to a question about your education programs. I got to believe that there is, that even as you're trying to educate your enterprise customers, you're also really investing in your enterprise, in upgrading and up scaling your partnership. Talk a bit about the relationship of education and Eco-system from a very practical standpoint. >> Yeah so it's a very good point because of course we need to help them to evolve and as an example we have seen traditional IT partner, interested to evolve on this OT security but they didn't have too much skill so it was new for them. So we see the purpose of building this NSC training vocation course which we have eight level, which started in 2015 and we have about now almost 200 000 certified engineers. A very large portion of those Engineers come from partners. So, on this program, in fact the origin of the program, depending on where you want to play. If it's cloud, you will have to go for NSC4. If you want to go beyond a OT, it can be NSC5. We build in fact this expertise and we ask them also to of course follow those course so the engagement with us, the requirement will be also that they have the right certified Engineer. Depending on level of engagement they want to work with us. So we build this course which is a lot of work and we have a lot of, a big team to make this happen. We have to refresh constantly because it's evolving almost every day. But as for this, the great value, you may have seen it pass on the networking sites. Cisco made a bit similar approach, which was very successful. I think we went like three years ago on thinking about this and that's what we are achieving right now and we are in fact the most I will say advanced in such a report and I think it's all NSC certification is becoming a bit stand out in the market. Both from end-user but the partner. And even going as we was mentioning, we are also working with the Academics to build in fact and train in fact new Engineers that will come in the market in the next two to three years. So we help them on, it's not pure about product, it's really about cyber security expertise that we have and of course we help them on understanding a bit how the Fortinet value can deploy on the customer, so that aspect and we try to target of course young I will say people going for university but also veterans who we had program to bring those veterans because they're also looking we are talking about up skilling. That's a perfect example on bringing a change to them. And I think it's high level, maybe it's a bit, you know think that we have a high potential. But we want of course to help on resolving the overall challenge to be unemployed. I can tell you that if you invest time and you get a certification on cyber security you will never have any problems with a job. So that's a bit the overall idea we have behind this education and certification. And truly the partner, I will say, evolution in terms of their expertise, it's based about this NSC. >> Alright Patrice as we kind of get towards the end here, let's talk about outcomes. Peter mentioned that word, I know that when I was looking at my notes here that in Q4 of 2018, service providers, and managed security service providers represented 11 of the top 25 deals. You guys also closed a massive seven figure deal in Europe. Let's talk about outcomes that Fortinet and your partner eco-system are helping businesses achieve at the business level. Not just in terms of obviously improving security but are you helping businesses generate new revenue streams, skip to new products on market faster, identify attacks and become pro active? What is one of those really key outcomes that you are proud of? >> I think the, and I was part of the presentation last year. We all, I would say on this digital transformation journey. Whole company, even us. We're evolving with much more tools, much automation. So I think every sector, whether it's public or private company, has to go for this evolution. The biggest challenge is all about digital so again the blocking point is about security. So last year we explained about how we can help with positioning our platform in the security fabric to run to this obstacle and that was the purpose of the security transformation that we was talking last year. And I know it's some, even complete as relayed a message, it was interesting that it was part of all. So I think it was really trying to unlock this digital transformation that add business benefit because at the end this whole, those company will evolve in the future, generate more profit, be more efficient, leverage, I would say, the data that they are collecting from almost everywhere. From customer but also the sensor, and transform this to a more business intelligence and then I will say generate in fact future revenue and future dollars from that. That has been a bit the idea behind. So we definitely help on evolving and going through this digital transformation journey. I think we had few example of course as one of our customers, they deploying world wide on their gas-station. A better customer journey. Typically of course you calm, you try to make your gas and you want to be connected. And they try to increase of course by upselling a lot of things. So of course you have your go for the coffee machine, you can even buy many goods. We have been deploying you know, with secure access so they have secure access they go for the internet so that's where we play with segmentation. But our wireless which is fully connected also to the Fortigate and the analytic tools allow them to do business intelligence in term of where people are moving inside you know the shops. And then, you know, redesign and rethink about okay, how they move here. So that's, that allow them to accelerate even more business or decide that maybe this spot doesn't work well, so they push that to the side and they evolve. That's depicted the value of all this intelligence and we can grasp from the data that we collect to transform to a business value. >> So I want to make one comment before we close here and that is that I don't know the degree to which people really understand the relationship between secure networking and digital business. Data is an interesting asset. It could be shared, it could be copied, it could be easily corrupted. In many respects over the next five years we believe that people will recognize that network security is the basis for privatizing data. It is what you do to turn data into an asset. I don't think people have made that connection, to the degree that they need to. >> No I agree, I agree because maybe the mindset they think about network, they think about wired. In fact we are talking about 5G, we are talking about Wireless so the data is that what we want to protect because we don't want that people stole your personal information or even company. >> It's more than protect. You want to create the asset. >> Yes, we integrate the asset. And then of course when we talk about network it's no longer wires, of course it's much more virtual I would say networks. And that's the misinterpretation and why they feel okay the network is moving away. No, it's even more in the future. And as Cain mentioned early this morning: I think the edge will become much more important in future because the compute power that we are having now on every device and even. That will in fact allow to of course generate much more data. Yeah and you need to protect. You notice when you need to go and to consolidate this into the cloud. So it's really, the age will become a very important aspect. But this will be a hybrid and that's what we feel as Fortinet we've been building in fact the very comprehensive offer and to the partner and to our customer. We just want, in fact to give them the time to move at their pace. But they have everything ready for today. That's a bit the concept. >> Well if only we had more time Patrice, we could keep going and going. Thank you so much for sharing some time on the program today talking about your GTM, what you are doing to educate partners and customers and this tremendous potential that Fortinet is attacking. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you very much, I appreciate it too. >> We want to thank you for watching for Peter Burroughs, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

brought to you by Red Hat well welcome back everyone this two cubes exclusive coverage here in San Francisco California for Red Hat summit 20:18 I'm John Ferreira co-host of the cube with my analyst co-host this week John Troy year co-founder of The Reckoning advisory services and our next guest is Arvind Krishna who's the senior vice president of hybrid cloud at IBM Reese and director of IBM Research welcome back to the cube good to see you hey John and John Wade you guys just kick it confuse get to John's here great to have you on because you guys are doing some deals with Red Hat obviously the leader at open source you guys are one of them as well contributing to Linux it's well documented the IBM has three books on your role relationship to Linux so yeah check check but you guys are doing a lot of work with cloud in a way that you know frankly is very specific to IBM but also has a large industry impact not like the classic cloud so I want to get who tie the knot here and put that together so first I got to ask you take a minute to talk about why you're here with red hat what's the update with IBM with Red Hat yeah great John thanks and thanks for giving me the time I'm going to talk about it in two steps one I'm going to talk about a few common Tenace between IBM and Red Hat and then I'll go from there to the specific news so for the context we both believe in Linux I think that's easy to state we both believe in containers I think that's the next thing to state and we'll come back and talk about containers because this is a world containers are linked to Linux containers are linked to these technologies called kubernetes containers are linked to how you make workloads portable across many different environments both private and public then I go on from there to say and we both believe in hybrid hybrid meaning that people want the ability to run their workload wherever they want beat on a private cloud beat on a public cloud and do it without having to rewrite everything as you go across okay so let's just average those are the market needs so then you come back and say an IBM as a great portfolio of middleware names like WebSphere and db2 and I can go on and on and rather has a great footprint of Linux in the enterprise so now you say we got the market need of hybrid we got these two things which between them of tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions of endpoints how do you make that need get fulfilled by this and that's what we just announced here so we announced that IBM middleware will run containerized on RedHat containers on Red Hat Enterprise Linux in addition we said IBM cloud private which is the ability to bring all of the IBM middleware in a sort of a cloud friendly form right you click and you install it keeps itself up it doesn't go down it's elastic in a set of technologies we call IBM cloud private running in turn on Red Hat open shift container service on Red Hat Linux so now for the first time if you say I want private I want public I want to go here I want to go there you have a complete certified stack that is complete I think I can say we are unique in the industry and giving you this this and this is where this is kind of where the fruit comes on the tree off the tree for you guys you know we've been good following you guys for years you know every where's the cloud strategy and first well it's not like you don't have a cloud strategy you have cloud products right so you have to deliver the goods you've got the system replays the market need we all knows the hybrid cloud multi-cloud choice cetera et cetera right you take Red Hat's footprint your capabilities your combined install base is foundational right so and nothing needs to change there's no lifting shift there's no rip and replace you can it's out there it's foundational now on top of it is where the action is that's what we're that's what were you kind of getting at right that's correct so so we can go into somebody there running let's say a massive online banking application or the running a reservation system is using technologies from Asus using Linux underneath and today it's all a bunch of piece parts you have a huge complex stuff it's all hard wired and rigidly nailed down to the floor in a few places and I can say hey I'll take the application I don't have to rewrite the application I can containerize it I can put it here and that same app now begins to work but in a way that's a lot more fluid in elastic well by the way I want to do a bit more work I want to expose a bit of it up as micro-services I want search Samia you can go do that you want to fully make it microservices enable to be able to make it as little components and digestible you can do that so you can take it in sort of bite-sized chunks and go from one to the other at the pace that you want and that's game-changing yeah that's what I really like about this announcement it really brings the best of breed together right you did you know there's a lot of talk about containers and legacy and we you know we've been talking about what goes where and do you have to break everything up like you were just saying but the the announcement today you know WebSphere the this the you know a battle-tested huge enterprise scale component db2 those things containerized and also in a framework like with IBM we either with IBM Microsoft things or others right that's um that's a huge endorsement for open shipped as a platform absolutely it is and look we would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit I mean we use the word containers and containers a lot yes you're right containers is a really really important technology but what containers enable is much more than prior attempts such as vm's and all have done containers really allow you to say hey I saw the security problem I solved the patching problem the restart problem all those problems that lie around the operations of a typical enterprise can get solved with containers VM sold a lot about isolating the infrastructure but they didn't solve as John was saying the top half of the stack and that's I think the huge power here yeah I want to just double click on that because I think the containers thing is instrument because you know first of all being in the media and loving what we do we're kind of a new kind of media company but traditional media has been throwing IBM under the bus and saying oh you know old guard and all these things but here's the thing you don't have to change anything you could containers you can essentially wrap it up and then bring a micro-services architecture into it so you can actually leverage at cloud scale so what interests me is is that you can move instantly value proposition wise pre-existing market cloud if I if you will with operational capabilities and this is where I like the cloud private so I want to kind of go with the ever second if I have a need to take what I have an IBM when it's WebSphere now I got developers I got installed base I'd have to put a migration plan away I containerize it thank you very much I do some cloud native stuff but I want to make it private my use case is very specific maybe it's confidential maybe it's like a government region whatever I can create a cloud operations is that right I can cloud apply it and run it absolutely correct so when you look at about private to go down that path we said well private allows you to run on your private infrastructure but I want all these abilities you just described John I want to be able to do micro services I want to be able to scale up and down I want to be able to say operations happen automatically so it gives you all that but in the private without having to go all the way to the public so if you cared a lot about you're in a regulated industry because you went down government or confidential data or you say this data is so sensitive I don't really I'm not going to take the risk of it being anywhere else it absolutely gives you that ability to go do that and and that is what we brought to our private to the market for and then you combine it with open shift and now you get the powers of both together so you guys essentially have brought to the table the years of effort with bluemix all that good stuff going on you can bring any he'd actually run this in any industry vertical pretty much right absolutely so if you look at what what the past has been for the entire industry it has been a lot about constructing a public cloud not just to us but us and our competition and a public cloud has certain capabilities and it has certain elasticity it has a global footprint but it does not have a footprint that's in every zip code or in every town or in every city that song ought to happen to the public cloud so we say it's a hybrid world meaning that you're going to run some bulk loads on a public cloud and like to run some bulk loads on a private and I'd like to have the ability that I don't have to pre decide which is where and that is what the containers the micro services the open ship that combination all gives you to say you don't need to pre decide you fucker you rewrite the workload on to this and then you can decide where it runs well I was having this conversation with some folks at and recent Amazon Web Services conference to say well if you go to cloud operations then the on-prem is essentially the edge it's not necessary then the definition of on-premise really doesn't even exist so if you have cloud operations in a way what is the data center then it's just a connected tissue that's right it's the infrastructure which you set up and then at that point the software manages the data center as opposed to anything else and that's kind of being the goal that we are all being wanted it sounds like this is visibility into IBM's essentially execution plan from day one we've been seeing in connecting the dots having the ability to take either pre-existing resources foundational things like red hat or whatnot in the enterprise not throwing it away building on top of it and having a new operating model with software with elastic scale horizontally scalable synchronous all those good things enabling micro search with kubernetes and containers now for the first time I could roll out new software development life cycles in a cloud native environment without foregoing legacy infrastructure and investment absolutely and one more element and if you want to insert some public cloud services into the environment beat in private or in public you can go do that for example you want to insert a couple of AI services into your middle of your application you can go do that so the environment allows you to do what he described and these additions we're talking about people for a second though the the titles that we haven't mentioned CIO you know business leader business unit leaders how are they looking at the digital transformation and business transformation in your client base as you go out and talk to us so let's take a hypothetical back and every bank today is looking about at simple questions how do i improve my customer experience and everyone in this a customer experience really do mean digital customer experience to make it very tangible and what they mean by that is how I get my end customer engaged with me through an app the apps probably on a device like this some smartphone we won't say what it is and and so how do you do that and so they say well well you were to check your balance you obviously want to maybe look at your credit card you want to do all those things the same things we do today so that application exists there is not much point in rewriting it you might do the UI up but it's an app that exists then you say but I also want to give you information that's useful to you in the context of what you're doing I want to say you can get a 10 second not a not a 30-day load but a ten-second law I want to make it offer to you in the middle of you browsing credit cards all those are new customer this thinks are hot where do you construct those apps how do you mix and match it how do you use all the capabilities along with the data you got to go do that and what we are trying to now say here is a platform that you can go all that do all that on right to that complete lifecycle you mentioned the development lifecycle but I got to add to the the data lifecycle as well as here is the versioning here are my area models all those things built in into one platform and scales are huge the new competitive advantage you guys are enabling that so I got to ask you on the question on on multi cloud I'll see as people start building out the cloud on pram and with public cloud the things you're laying out I can see that going on for a while a lot of work being done there we seeing that wiki bond had a true private cloud before I thought was truly telling a lot of growth they're still not going away public cloud certainly has grown the numbers are clear however the word multi clouds being kicked around I think it's more of a future state obviously but people have multiple clouds will have relationships with multiple clouds no one's gonna have one Klaus not a winner-take-all game winner take most but you're gonna have multiple clouds what does multi-cloud mean to you guys in your architecture because is that moving workloads in real time based upon spot pricing indexes or is that just co-locating on clouds and saying I got this SAP on that cloud that app on that cloud control plane did these are architectural questions it's the thing hell is multi cloud so these are today and then there is a tomorrow and then there is a long future state right so let's take today let's check IBM we're on Salesforce we're on service now we're on workday we're on SuccessFactors well all these are different clouds we run our own public cloud we run our own private cloud and we have traditional data center and we might have some of the other clouds also through apps that we bought that we don't even know okay so let's just toss I think every one of our clients is like this so multi cloud is here today I begin with that first simple statement and I need to connect the data and it comes connect when things go away the next step I think people nobody's gonna have only one even public cloud I think the big public clouds most people are gonna have to if not more that's today and tomorrow your channel partners have clouds by the way your global s lies all have clouds there's a cloud for crying out loud right so then you go into the aspirational state and that may be the one he said where people do spot pricing but even if I stay back from spot pricing and completely dynamic and of worrying about network and I'm worrying about video reach I just back up on to but I may decide it I have this app I run it on private well but I don't have all the infrastructures I want to bust it today and I've very robust it to I got to decide which public and how do I go there and that's a problem of today and we're doing that and that is why I think multi-cloud is here now not some pointed problem the problem statement there is latency managing you know service level agreements between clouds and so on and so forth governance where does my data go because there may be regulate regulate through reasons to decide where the data can flow and all the great point about the cloud I never thought about that way it's a good good illustration I would also say that I see the same argument of database world not everyone has db2 that everyone has Oracle number one has databases are everywhere you have databases part of IOT devices now so like no one makes a decision on the database similar was proud you're seeing a similar dynamic it's the glue layer that to me interest me as you how do you bring them together so holistically looking at the 20 mile stare in the future what is the integration strategy long term if you look at a distributed system or an operating system there has to be an architectural guiding principle for absolute integration you know well that's 30 years now in the making so we can say networking everybody had their own networking standards and the let's say the 80s though it probably goes back to the 70s right yeah an SN a tcp/ip you had NetBIOS TechNet deck that go on and on and in the end is tcp/ip that one out as the glue others by the way survived but in pockets and then tcp/ip was the glue then you can fast forward 15 years beyond that an HTTP became the glue we call that the internet then you can fast forward you can say now how to make applications portable and I would turn around and tell you that containers on linux with kubernetes as orchestration is that glue layer now in order to make it so just like in tcp/ip it wasn't enough to say tcp/ip you needed routing tables you needed DNS you needed name repositories you needed all those things similarly you need all those here I've called those catalogs and automation so that's the glue layer that makes all of this work this is important I love this conversation because I've been ranting on this in the queue for years you're nailed it a new stack is development DNS this is olden Internet infrastructure cloud infrastructure at the global scale is seeing things like Network effect okay we see blockchain in token economics like databases multiple database on structured data a new plethora of new things are happening that are building on top of say HTTP correct and this is the new opportunity this is the new the new platform which is emerging and it's going to enable businesses to operate you said at scale to be very digital to be very nimble application life cycles are not always going to be months they're gonna come down to days and this is what gets enabled so I want you to give your opinion personal or IBM or whatever perspective because I think you nailed the glue layer on cue and a stalker and these this new glue layer that and you made reference system things like HTTP and TCP which changed the industry landscape wealth creation new up new new brands emerged companies we've never heard of emerged out of this and we're all using them today we expect a new set of brands are gonna emerge new technologies and emerge in your expert opinion how gigantic is this swarm of new innovation gonna be just because you've seen many ways before in your view your mind's eye what are you expecting wouldn't share your your insight into how big of a shift and wave is this is going to be and add some color to that I think that if I take a take a shorter and then a longer term view in the short term I think that we said that this is on the order of 100 billion dollars that's not just our estimate I think even Gartner estimated about the same number that'll be the amount of opportunity for new technologies in what we've been describing and that is I think short term if I go longer term I think as much as 1/2 but at least 1/4 of the complete ID market is going to shift onto these technologies so then the winners are those that make the shift and then bye-bye clusion the losers of those who don't make this shift faster Afghan and stop the market moves that's that's he was interesting we used to like look at certain segments going back years oh this companies reap platform Ising we platforming they're their operative lift and shift and all this stuff what you're talking about here is so game-changing because the industries Reap lat forming that's a company that's it's an industry that's right any and I think the the the Internet era of 1995 to put that point it's perhaps the easiest analogy to what is happening not the not the emergence of cloud not the emergence of all that I think that was small steps what we're talking about now is back to the 1995 statement every vertical is upgrading their stack across the board from e-commerce to whatever that's right it's completely modernizing correct around cloud what we call digital transformation in a sense yes what not a big fan of the word but I lied I understand what you mean great insight our thanks for coming on the Kuban Sharon because we even get to some of the other good stuff but IBM and Red Hat doing some great stuff obviously foundational I mean Red Hat Tier one first-class citizen in every single enterprise and software environment you know now saw open source runs the world you guys you guys are no stranger to Linux being the first billion dollar investment going back so you guys have a heritage there so congratulations on the relationships that go around about ninety nine nine yeah and and I love the strategy hybrid cloud here at IBM and right at this the cube bring you all the action here in San Francisco I'm John for John Troy you're more live covers stay with us here in the cube Willie right back

>> Narrator: From Berlin, Germany, it's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit Europe 2018, brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Well, hello, and welcome to the Cube. I'm James Kobielus. I'm the lead analyst for Big Data Analytics with the Wikibon team within SiliconANGLE Media. We are here at the DataWorks Summit 2018 in Berlin, Germany. And I have a special guest, we have a special guest, Bernard Marr, one of the most influential, thought leaders in the big data analytics arena. And it's not just me saying that. You look at anybody's rankings, Bernard's usually in the top two or three of influentials. He publishes a lot. He's a great consultant. He keynoted this morning on the main stage at Dataworks Summit. It was a very fascinating discussion, Bernard. And I'm a little bit star struck 'cause I assumed you were this mythical beast who just kept putting out these great books and articles and so forth. And I'm glad to have you. So, Bernard, I'd like for you to stand back, we are here in Berlin, in Europe. This is April of 2018, in five weeks time, the general data protection, feels global 'cause it sort of is. >> It is. >> The general data protection regulation will take full force, which means that companies that do business in Europe, in the EU, must under the law protect the personal data they collect on EU citizens ensuring the right to privacy, the right to be forgotten, ensuring user's, people's ability to withhold consent to process and profile and so forth. So that mandate is coming down very fast and so forth. What is your thoughts on GDPR? Is it a good thing, Bernard, is it high time? Is it a burden? Give us your thoughts on GDPR currently. >> Okay, first, let me return all the compliments. It's really great to be here. I think GDPR can be both. And for me it will come down very much to the way it gets implemented. So, in principle for me, it is a good thing because what I've always made companies do and advise them to do is to be completely transparent in the way they're collecting data and using data. I believe that the big data world can't thrive if we don't develop this trust and have this transparency. So in principle, it's a great thing. For me will come down to the implementation of all of this. I had an interesting chat just minutes ago with the event photographer saying that once GDPR kicks in he can't actually publish any photographs without getting written consent for everyone in the photograph. That's a massive challenge and he was saying he can't afford to lose 4% of his global revenue. So I think it will be very interesting to see how this will-- >> How it'll be affecting face recognition, I'm sorry go ahead. >> Bernard: Yeah maybe. >> Well maybe that's a bad thing, maybe it's a good thing. >> Maybe it is, yeah, maybe. So for me, in principle a very good thing. In practice, I'm intrigued to see how this will get implemented. >> Of the clients you consult, what percentage in the EU, without giving away names, what percentage do you think are really ready right now or at least will be by May 25th to comply with the letter of the law? Is it more than 50%? Is it more than 80%? Or will there be a lot of catching up to do in a short period of time? >> My sense is that there's a lot of catching up to do. I think people are scrambling to get ready at the moment. But the thing is nobody really knows what being ready really means. I think there are lots of different interpretations. I've been talking to a few lawyers recently. And everyone has a slightly different interpretation of how far they can push the boundaries, so, again, I'm intrigued to see what will actually happen. And I very much hope that common sense prevails and it will be seen as a good force and something that is actually good for everyone in the field of big data. >> So slightly changing track, in the introduction of you this morning, I think it was John Christ of Hortonworks said that you made a prediction about this year that AI will be used to automate more things than people realize and it'll come along fairly fast. Can you give us a sense for how automation, AI is enabling greater automation, and whether, you know, this is the hot button topic, AI will put lots of people out of work fairly quickly by automating everything that white collar workers and so forth are doing, what are your thoughts there? Is it cause for concern? >> Yes, and it's probably one of the questions I get asked the most and I wish I had a very good answer for it. If we look back at the other, I believe that we are experiencing a new industrial revolution at the moment, and if you look at what the World Economic Forums CEO and founder, Klaus Schwab, is preaching about, it is that we are experiencing this new industrial revolution that will truly transform the workplace and our lives. In history, all of the other three previous industrial revolutions have somehow made our lives better. And we have always found something to do for us. And they have changed the jobs. Again, there was a recent report that looked at some of the key AI trends and what they found is that actually AI produces more new jobs than it destroys. >> Will we all become data scientists under, as AI becomes predominant? Or what's going on here? >> No I don't, and this is, I wish I had the answer to this. For me is the advice I give my own children now is to focus on the really human element of it and probably the more strategic element. The problem is five, six years ago this was a lot easier. I could talk about emotional, intelligence, creativity, with advances in machine learning, this advice is no longer true. And lots of jobs, even some of the things I do, I write for Forbes on a regular basis. I also know that AIs write for Forbes. A lot of the analyst reports are now machine generated. >> Natural language generation, a huge use case for AI that people don't realize. >> Bernard: Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> So, for me I see it, as an optimist I see it positively. I also question whether we as human beings should be going to work eight hours a day doing lots of stuff we quite often don't enjoy. So for me, the challenge is adjusting our economic model to this new reality, and I see that there will be significant disruption over the next 20 years that with all the technology coming in and really challenging our jobs. >> Will AI put you and me out of a job. In other words, will it put the analysts and the consultants out of work and allow people to get expert advice on how to manage technology without having to go through somebody like a you or a me? >> Absolutely, and for me, my favorite example is looking at medicine. If you look at doctors, traditionally you send a doctor to medical school for seven years. You then hope that they retain 10% of what they've learned if you're lucky. Then they gain some experience. You then turn up in the practice with your conditions. Again, if you're super lucky, they might have skim read some of your previous conditions, and then diagnose you. And unless you have something that's very common, the chance that they get this right is very low. So compare this with your old stomping ground IBMs Watson, so they are able to feed all medical knowledge into that cognitive computing platform. They can update this continuously, and you think, and could then talk to Watson eight hours a day if I wanted to about my symptoms. >> But can you trust that advice? Why should you trust the advice that's coming from a bot? Yeah, that's one of the key issues. >> Absolutely, and I think at the moment maybe not quite because there's still a human element that a doctor can bring because they can read your emotions, they can understand your tone of voice. This is going to change with affective computing and the ability for machines to do more of this, too. >> Well science fiction authors run amok of course, because they imagine the end state of perfection of all the capabilities like you're describing. So we perfect robotics. We perfect emotion analytics and so forth. We use machine learning to drive conversational UIs. Clearly a lot of people imagine that the technology, all those technologies are perfected or close to it, so, you know. But clearly you and I know that it's a lot of work to do to get them-- >> And we both have been in the technology space long enough to know that there are promises and there's lots of hype, and then there's a lot of disappointment, and it usually takes longer than most people predict. So what I'm seeing is that every industry I work in, and this is what my prediction is, automation is happening across every industry I work in. More things, even things I thought five years ago couldn't be automated. But to get to a state where it really transforms our world, I think we are still a few years away from that. >> Bernard, in terms of the hype factor for AI, it's out of sight. What do you think is the most hyped technology or application under the big umbrella of AI right now in terms of the hype far exceeds the utility. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I've got some ideas. Your thoughts? >> Lots of them. I think that the two areas I write a lot about and talk to companies a lot about is deep learning, machine learning, and blockchain technology. >> James: Blockchain. >> So they are, for me, they have huge potential, some amazing use cases, at the same time the hype is far ahead of reality. >> And there's sort of an intersection between AI and blockchain right now, but it's kind of tentative. Hey, Bernard, we are at the end of this segment. It's been so great. We could just keep going on and on and on. >> I know we could just be... >> Yeah, there's a lot I've been wanting to ask you for a long time. I want to thank you for coming to theCUBE. >> Pleasure. >> This has been Bernard Marr. I'm James Kobielus on theCUBE from DataWorks Summit in Berlin, and we'll be back with another guest in just a little while. Thank you very much.