>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity. >> Welcome back to theCUBE everyone. It is Microsoft Ignite, it is happy hour. There are people walking around with beer and wine and snacks and it is a great time. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Stu Miniman. We are joined by Jeramiah Dooley, He is an Azure Advocate at Microsoft. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much. >> Of course. CUBE vetaran, esteemed CUBE veteran coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, I've been doing this for a while and Stu and I've gotten to talk a few times. >> Yes. >> But it's good to be back. >> Well, welcome. So you joined the Microsoft Advocacy Team a little over a year ago and I read a blog post that you wrote, "This is the most interesting period of my career." >> Agreed. >> I'd love to hear you riff on why it is such a gratifying time, what exactly you're doing as an advocate and why it's so interesting. >> Sure. So, I guess we'll start with the last part. My job as a cloud advocate is literally, simply to engage with and help communities who focus on a specific technology and help them build bridges into whatever part of Azure makes sense for them. My job specifically, is that I run a team who's focused on enterprise platforms and tools communities. And for us, that's VMware, that's OpenStack, that's CloudStack, that's any of the communities where the members of it identify themselves by the platform that they operate, not necessarily by the language that they use to write coding in or the applications that they're running. They're worried about the infrastructure portion of it, but usually, from a software standpoint. Part of the reason that it's interesting, is one, it's fun to have an advocacy role where I work as part of the engineering team. My job is simply to be that conduit between customers who say, "It would be really cool to have this," and an engineering team who is desperate for feedback from customers around what do we build and how do we build it. And especially for me, coming from the infrastructure side of things. Before Microsoft, I worked at NetApp. I was part of the SolidFire acquisition. I've worked at infrastructure companies kind of all the way down back into my service provider days. The larger transition of customers, especially enterprise customers, who are moving from one side of that divide to the other really matches up well with what I did from a career standpoint. I came to a company who looked at everything that I knew how to do technically and said we don't really need any of that but we love the context that it gives you for being able to go out and talk to these communities and show them what Azure could do. So it's very interesting to work somewhere where my involvement with the community, my involvement with the technology helps make me a bridge into something that was all new to me. Right, I'm not a developer. I didn't work inside the Azure cloud before I took the role. What I knew was the technology in the communities and Microsoft gave me the opportunity to build the other side of that which is how do we take all of those things and how do we move them into an Azure context. So it's been fantastic. >> Yeah and Jeramiah, we're at an interesting point in this journey we're going on. I think back to you know the virtualization journey and we've reached a certain point where you could virtualize anything and virtualization was growing. But getting from the 20% to the majority was challenging. I feel we're at a similar point and you know for myself, I look at where 20% of the workloads are in the cloud. This movement of data is not going to be a one-time or a one-way journey. There's my data center, there's the public cloud, there's the Edge, there's SAS. My data, my applications are everywhere and I think that's a lot of that hybrid environment. But how do we simplify this environment and make it more consumable for everyone and, tell us a little bit about what are some of the real challenges that you hear in the field and how is Microsoft in the ecosystem helping to solve that? >> It's an interesting parallel. On the 80% virtualization challenge, we had a couple things. One was workloads that we just couldn't and so we were waiting on the business side of things to give us something that we could virtualize. And then there was the law of diminishing returns on the amount of money that it would cost to virtualize them. When we look at the, I'm trying to move workloads from on-premises into the cloud, the transition challenge is similar. The big difference is it's the operational investment that is holding it back. It's not not the law of diminishing returns, it's the law of the sunken cost, right? So we've got customers who have invested decades, literal a decade into the automation and the orchestration and the run books and the what do you do at three o'clock in the morning when things go wrong all in a VMware context or all in an OpenStack context. And those are the things that are more valuable to them, frankly than the vendor who sits underneath it, right? We can change vendors as long as it doesn't impact operations. And so from an Azure standpoint, that's exactly the angle that we want to take if what you need are workloads that live inside a hyper scalar cloud and what you have to have in order to take that first step is don't touch my operations, don't touch my scripting, don't touch my infrastructure's code, don't touch any of the stuff that I've built up as your operational intellectual property over the last however many years. Don't touch any of that and that transition becomes easy. And then once I have a footprint, now I can be real selective about cherry-picking which of these cloud native services make sense and how can I as a customer choose with when my operations team starts to have to take on some of these additional burdens rather than what I feel like the perception is, which is as soon as I get anything from Azure, my entire operations team now has two jobs and everybody has twice the amount of work to do. And then I have to go hire new experts because these work these skills don't translate. And so if we can make it easy to do that initial move without having to change anything and then give customers a very transparent way to decide what cloud services are they going to adopt and how is it that they're going to manage that impact on their operations teams, I think we've got a path that really starts to overcome some of those initial fears. >> But customers are on a continuum, I mean, wouldn't you say just in terms of where they are, in terms of where they are in the technology and then also their mindset and how much they're willing to adopt and change? >> Yep. I think that the group that I'm in, the larger group that I'm in mirrors that. We have four different teams, three teams in addition to mine that sit on that continuum from are we an infrastructure community, that are we a platform community to are we a workload community particularly on the Microsoft side to identify by the workloads that I run, to am I a modern operations community, the SRE principles, the things that we're doing from a culture standpoint to be able to build operations teams that can manage this type of environment. And then finally, are we developers and do we want to really look at the DevOps side of things and how do we tie the developers and their needs back organically in? And I think that customers are on a continuum all the way across but even before they get into that, we went through the virtualization journey and now we're trying to figure out how can I be efficient, how can I take advantage of things that I really don't want to have to build on premises. I would love to have someone else take care of that for me but how can I do that without swamping the humans that have to take care of all the things in the background? >> Yeah, so Jeramiah, we actually had a guest on earlier that said there's companies that would consider themselves a Microsoft shop just like there were people that would say, you know I'm Cisco certified and that is my job. How's Microsoft helping customers move kind of beyond that vendor view to with the language that we hear from Satya Nadella is about business outcomes and the agility and what we all talk about is how the future should be. But you know, it's very difficult inside the enterprise organization to change those roles and rescale and learn up or hire people into that. You've got those four teams maybe. How does Microsoft help people move along this journey? >> I think rule number one is meet customers where they are. It's not our job to dictate how fast customers move or what direction they move in. It's our job to build bridges, maybe lots of bridges and let customers decide which of them make make the most sense. If we can meet customers where they are today and in the case of VMware, that means building a bare-metal environment that we can deploy VMware on to so that customers can take advantage of it without having to change any of their operational stuff. Then, I get to compete on the merits of the services as your offers and I'm happy to do that. Once we have those workloads in a place where you can take advantage of managed database instances or no sequel geographic distribution models that you didn't have the ability to build on your own or even intelligent Edge connected firewalls or application load bouncers. There's so much stuff in there that when we talk to the operations teams, they're like, "I want that and I would like that now", and we just don't have the ability always to push that down into the on premises side of things. So meeting them where they're at and then doing a good job of translating the value, the business value of the services that we offer into the language of that audience. And I really think that's where the advocacy team comes in. It is almost a business value translator where we look at all these things in the Azure marketplace and say here's why this matters to you. Here are the things that you're doing today that we could make go away. Let's work on figuring out what the return on that investment would be to find out if it's a good business deal. >> And the thing about Microsoft is that it has been around for so long that so many of these companies have had decades-long relationships with Microsoft which is not something you could say about all the other cloud providers because they are relatively newer to the scene. >> And good and bad right? I mean on the good side, there's literally not an enterprise that I walk into that there isn't some Microsoft relationship. In many cases, that allows us to be really aggressive and going to customers and saying the licensing on premises that you're trying to move away from has a Microsoft logo on it and the cloud that you're looking to move into has a Microsoft logo on it. Let's figure it out. Sometimes, I mean every, especially large customers, they've got multiple vendors in there, there have always been things that have happened along the way in that relationship but absolutely it's great to be able to look at a customer and know. Even if you're not an Azure customer, I promise your Microsoft customer that gives us some sort of common ground to be able to start that process. >> Yes, so we know that the customer experience is so very important but one of the other experiences is the employee experience. I've got great respect for Microsoft. I've worked with them most of my career but Jeramiah, there's a number of people I know that 10 years ago would never have joined Microsoft but now find themselves working for Microsoft. Give us a little viewpoint as to how kind of the Microsoft of the Satya Nadella era is different from what we might have seen in previous days. >> It's a great point and I know that when I interviewed with Microsoft and went through my loop with some of the people that you're going to have on the show this week. That was my question was would you have seen yourself working for the Microsoft two/five years ago and especially when we're talking about the SRE and the DevOps folks. It's just a categorical no across the board and I think it's from a personal standpoint, the idea that it is new technology that we're looking at, that everything I've done in the last 18 months has been something that I got to learn from the ground up, new content, new technologies, new ways to translate that into customers. I thought that working for a giant company like this would be challenging from a logistical standpoint. What really has been challenging is from a focus standpoint. There is so much to focus on, to learn. I mean even just looking around this place you can get lost wandering through just the hub and the social spaces. My challenge has been less of is this a good place to work or is the culture something that fits and more, what are the... I'm never going to know everything. What are the small number of things that I can focus on and really provide value for? But overall, culture wise, I love the "empower of everyone on the planet" messaging and when you walk onto the floor and you see the tag line, "You can't empower everyone unless you include everyone". It's just really fun to be at a place where you can feel excited about those things and having worked in IT, particularly on the infrastructure side for a long time, that's not always the case. So if you're excited about the type of company that you're going to work for and I have all of these toys to play with and I have so much stuff that I can learn and get involved in and then translate back in to that core enterprise community. No, this has been, not just the most interesting 18 months but we're talking about this is a hard job not to love with the opportunity that we get and then the technology we get to work with. >> That's a great note to end on. Jeramiah Dooley, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Of course, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight with Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity. >> Good morning everyone. You are watching theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite 2019 here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside of Stu Miniman. We are joined by Donovan Brown. He is the Principal Cloud Advocate Manager of Methods and Practices Organizations at Microsoft. (laughing) A mouthful of a title. >> Yes. >> Rebecca: We are thrilled to welcome you on. >> Thank you so much. >> You are the man in the black shirt. >> I have been dubbed the man in the black shirt. >> So tell us what that's all about. You're absolutely famous. Whenever we were saying Donovan Brown's going to be here. "The man in the black shirt?" >> Yes. >> So what's that about? >> So it was interesting. The first time I ever got to keynote in an event was in New York in 2015 for Scott Guthrie, the guy who only wears a red shirt. And I remember, I was literally, and this is no exaggeration, wearing this exact black shirt, right, because I bring it with me and I can tell because the tag in the back is worn more than the other black shirts I have just like this one. And I bring this one out for big events because I was in a keynote yesterday and I knew I was going to be on your show today. And I wore it and it looked good on camera. I felt really good. I'm an ex-athlete. We're very superstitious. I'm like I have to wear that shirt in every keynote that I do from now on because if you look further back, you'll see me in blue shirts and all other colored shirts. But from that day forward, it's going to be hard pressed for you to find me on camera on stage without this black shirt on or a black shirt of some type. And there's a really cool story about the black shirt that was. This is what\ I knew it was a thing. So I pack about six or seven black shirts in every luggage. I'm flying overseas to Germany to go Kampf to do a keynote for, I think it was Azure Saturday. Flights were really messed up. they had to check my bag which makes me very uncomfortable because they lose stuff. I'm not too worried about it, it'll be okay. Check my bag, get to Europe. They've been advertising that the black shirt is coming for months and they lose my luggage. And I am now, heart's pounding out of my chest. (laughing) We go to the airport. I'm shopping in the airport because I don't even have luggage. I cannot find a black shirt and I am just thinking this is devastating. How am I going to go to a conference who's been promoting "the black shirt's coming" not wearing a black shirt? And my luggage does not show up. I show up at the event I'm thinking okay, maybe I'll get lucky and the actual conference shirt will be black and then we're all good. I walk in and all I see are white shirts. I'm like this could not be worse. And then now the speakers show up. They're wearing blue shirts, I'm like this cannot be happening. So I'm depressed, I'm walking to the back and everyone's starts saying, "Donovan's here, Donovan's here." And I'm looking to find my polo, my blue polo I'm going to put on. They're like no, no, no, no Donovan. They printed one black shirt just for me. I was like oh my goodness, this is so awesome. So I put the black shirt on, then I put a jacket on over it and I go out and I tell the story of how hard it was to get here, that they lost my luggage, I'm not myself without a black shirt. But this team had my back. And when I unzipped my shirt, the whole place just starts clapping 'cause I'm wearing >> Oh, I love it. >> a black shirt. >> Exactly. So now to be seen without a black shirt is weird. Jessica Dean works for me. We were in Singapore together and it was an off day. So I just wore a normal shirt. She had to take a double take, "Oh no, is that Donovan, my manager "'cause he's not wearing a black shirt?" I don't wear them all the time but if I'm on camera, on stage you're going to see me in a black shirt. >> Rebecca: All right, I like it. >> Well, Donovan, great story. Your team, Methods and Practices makes up a broad spectrum of activities and was relatively recently rebranded. >> Yeah. >> We've talked to some of your team members on theCUBE before, so tell our audience a little bit about the bridges Microsoft's building to help the people. >> Great. No, so that's been great. Originally, I built a team called The League. Right, there's a really small group of just DevOps focused diehards. And we still exist. A matter of fact, we're doing a meet and greet tonight at 4:30 where you can come and meet all five of the original League members. Eventually, I got tasked with a much bigger team. I tell the story. I was in Norway, I went to sleep, I had four direct reports. I literally woke up and I had 20 people reporting to me and I'm like what just happened? And the team's spanned out a lot more than just DevOps. So having it branded as the DevOps Guy doesn't really yield very well for people who aren't diehard DevOps people. And what we feared was, "Donovan there's people who are afraid of DevOps "who now report to you." You can't be that DevOps guy anymore. You have to broaden what you do so that you can actually focus on the IT pros in the world, the modern operations people, the lift and shift with Jeremy, with what Jeramiah's doing for me right, with the lift and shift of workloads . And you still have to own DevOps. So what I did is I pulled back, reduced my direct reports to four and now I have teams underneath me. Abel Wang now runs DevOps. He's going to be the new DevOps guy for me. Jeramiah runs our lift and shift. Rick Klaus or you know the Hat, he runs all my IT Pro and then Emily who's just an amazing speaker for us, runs all of my modern operations. So we span those four big areas right. Modern operations which is sort of like the ops side of DevOps, IT pros which are the low level infrastructure, diehard Windows server admins and then we have DevOps run by Abel which is still, the majority of The League is over there. And then we have obviously the IT pros, modern ops, DevOps and then the left and shift with Jeramiah. >> I'd like to speak a little bit as to why you've got these different groups? How do you share information across the teams but you know really meet customers where they are and help them along 'cause my background's infrastructure. >> Donovan: Sure. >> And that DevOps, was like that religion pounding at you, that absolutely, I mean, I've got a closet full of hoodies but I'm not a developer. Understand? >> Understood. (laughs) It's interesting because when you look at where our customers are today, getting into the cloud is not something you do overnight. It takes lots of steps. You might start with a lift and shift, right? You might start with just adding some Azure in a hybrid scenario to your on-prem scenario. So my IT pros are looking after that group of people that they're still on prem majority, they're trying to dip those toes into the cloud. They want to start using things like file shares or backups or something that they can have, disaster recovery offsite while they're still running the majority of what they're doing on-prem. So there's always an Azure pool to all four of the teams that I actually run. But I need them to take care of where our customers are today and it's not just force them to be where we want them tomorrow and they're not ready to go there. So it's kind of interesting that my team's kind of have every one of those stages of migration from I'm on-prem, do I need to lift and shift do I need to do modern operations, do I need to be doing full-blown DevOps pull all up? So, I think it's a nice group of people that kind of fit the spectrum of where our customers are going to be taking that journey from where they are to enter the cloud. So I love it. >> One of the things you said was getting to the cloud doesn't happen overnight. >> No, it does not. >> Well, you can say that again because there is still a lot of skepticism and reluctance and nervousness. How do you, we talked so much about this digital transformation and technology is not the hard part. It's the people that pose the biggest challenges to actually making it happen. >> Donovan: Right. >> So we're talking about meeting customers where they are in terms of the tools they need. But where do you meet them in terms of where they are just in their approach and their mindset, in terms of their cloud readiness? >> You listen. Believe it or not, you can't just go and tell people something. You need to listen to them, find out what hurts and then start with that one thing is what I tell people. Focus on what hurts the most first. Don't do a big bang change of any type. I think that's a recipe for disaster. There's too many variables that could go wrong. But when I sit down with a customer is like tell me where you are, tell me what hurts, like what are you afraid of? Is it a compliancies? Let me go get you in contact with someone who can tell you about all the comp. We have over 90 certifications on Azure. Let me. whatever your fear is, I bet you I can get you in touch with someone that's going to help you get past that fear. But I don't say just lift, shift, move it all like stop wasting, like no. Let's focus on that one thing. And what you're going to do is you're going to start to build confidence and trust with that customer. And they know that I'm not there just trying to rip and replace you and get out high levels of ACR. I'm trying to succeed with you, right, empower every person in every organization on the planet to achieve more. You do that by teaching them first, by helping them first. You can sell them last, right? You shouldn't have to sell them at all once they trust that what we we're trying to do together is partner with you. I look at every customer more as a partner than a customer, like how can I come with you and we do better things together than either one of us could have done apart. >> You're a cloud psychologist? Almost, right because I always put myself in their position. If I was a customer, what would I want that vendor to do for me? How would they make me feel comfortable and that's the way that I lead. Right, I don't want you going in there selling anything right. We're here to educate them and if we're doing our job on the product side, the answer is going to be obvious that you need to be coming with us to Azure. >> All right. So Donovan, you mentioned you used to be an athlete? >> Donovan: Yes. >> According to your bio, you're still a bit of an athlete. >> Donovan: A little bit, a little bit. >> So there's the professional air hockey thing which has a tie to something going on with the field. Give us a little bit of background. I've got an air hockey table in my basement. Any tips for those of us that aren't, you know? You were ranked 11th in the world. >> At one point, yeah, though I went to the World Championships. It was interesting because that World Championships I wasn't prepared. My wife plays as well. We were like we're just going to go, we're going to support the tournament. We had no expectations whatsoever. Next thing you know, I'm in the round playing for the top 10 in the world. And that's when it got too serious for me and I lost, because I started taking it too serious. I put too much pressure on myself. But professionally, air hockey's like professional foosball or pool. It's grown men taking this sport way too seriously. It's the way I'd describe it. It is not what you see at Chuck E. Cheese. And what was interesting is Damien Brady who works for me found that there is an AI operated air hockey table here on this floor. And my wife was like, oh my gosh, we have to find this machine. Someone tape Donovan playing it. Six seconds later, my first shot I scored it. And I just looked at the poor people who built it and I'm like yeah, I'm a professional air hockey player. This thing is so not ready for professional time but they took down all my information and said we'd love to consult with you. I said I'd love to consult with you too because this could be a lot of fun. Maybe also a great way for professionals to practice, right, because you don't always have someone who's willing to play hours and hours which it takes to get at the professional level. But to have an AI system that I could even teach up my attack, forcing me to play outside of my comfort zone, to try something other than a left wall under or right well over but have to do more cuts because it knows to search for that. I can see a lot of great applications for the professionalized player with this type of AI. It would actually get a lot better. Literally, someone behind me started laughing. "That didn't take long" because it in six seconds I had scored on it already. I'm like okay, I was hoping it was going to be harder than this. >> I'm thinking back to our Dave Cahill interview of AI for everyone, and this is AI for professional air hockey players. >> It is and in one of my demos, Kendra Havens showed AI inside of your IDE. And I remember I tell the story that I remember I started writing software back in the 90s. I remember driving to a software store. You remember we used to have to drive and you'd buy a box and the box would be really heavy because the manuals are in there, and not to mention a stack of floppy discs that you're going to spend hours putting in your computer. And I bought visual C++ 1.52 was my first compiler. I remember going home so excited. And it had like syntax highlighting and that was like this cool new thing and you had all these great breakpoints and line numbers. And now Kendra's on stage typing this repetitives task and then the editor stops her and says, "It looks like you need to do this a little bit more. "You want me to do this for you?" And I'm like what just happened? This is not syntax highlighting. This is literally watching what you do, identifying a repetitive task, seeing the pattern in your code and suggesting that I can finish writing this code for you. It's unbelievable. >> You bring up a great point. Back when I used to write, it was programming. >> Yes. >> And we said programming was you learn the structure, you learn the logic and you write all the lines of what's going to be there. Coding on the other hand usually is taking something that is there, pulling in the pieces, making the modification. >> Right. >> It sounds like we're talking about even the next generation where the intelligence is going to take over. >> It's built right inside of your IDE which is amazing. You were talking about artificial intelligence, not only for the air hockey. But I love the fact that in Azure, we have so many cognitive services and you just like pick these off the shelf. When I wanted to learn artificial intelligence when I was in the university, you had to go for another language called Lisp. That scared half of us away from artificial intelligence because you have to learn another language just to go do this cool thing that back then was very difficult to do and you could barely get it to play chess, let alone play air hockey. But today, cognitive services search, decision-making, chat bots, they're so easy. Anyone, even a non developer, can start adding the power of AI into their products thanks to the stuff that we're doing in Azure. And this is just lighting up all these new possibilities for us, air hockey, drones that are able to put out fires. I've just seen amazing stuff where they're able to use AI and they add it with as little as two lines of code. And all of a sudden, your app is so much more powerful than it was before. >> Donovan, one of the things that really struck me over the last couple years, looking at Microsoft, is it used to be, you'd think about the Microsoft stack. When I think about developers it's like, oh wait are you a .NET person? Well, you're going to be there. The keynote this morning, one of your team members was on stage with Scott Hanselman and was you know choose your language, choose your tools and you're going to have all of them out there. So talk to us a little bit about that transition inside Microsoft. >> Sure. One of the mantras that I've been saying for a while is "any language, any platform". No one believes me . So I had to start proving it. I'm like so I got on stage one year. It was interesting and this is a really rough year because I flew with three laptops. One had Mac OS on it, one of them had Linux on it and one of them had Windows. And what I did is I created a voting app and what I would do is I'd get on stage and say okay everyone that's in this session, go to this URL and start voting. They got to pick what computer I use, they got to pick what language I programmed in and they got to pick where in Azure-eyed I deployed it to. Was it to an app service was it to Docker? I'm like I'm going to prove to you I can do any language in any platform. So I honestly did not know what demo I was going to do. 20 minutes later, after showing them some slides, I would go back to the app and say what did you pick? And I would move that computer in front of me and right there on stage completely create a complete CI/CD pipeline for the language that that audience chose to whatever resources that they wanted on whatever platform that they wanted me. Was like, have I proven this to you enough or not? And I did that demo for an entire year. Any language that you want me to program in and any platform you want me to target, I'm going to do that right now and I don't even know what it's going to be. You're going to choose it for me. I can't remember the last time I did a .NET demo on stage. I did Python this week when I was on stage with Jason Zander. I saw a lot of Python and Go and other demos this year. We love .NET. Don't get us wrong but everyone knows we can .NET. What we're trying to prove right now is that we can do a lot of other things. It does not matter what language you program in. It does not matter where you want to deploy. Microsoft is here to help you. It's a company created by developers and we're still obsessed with developers, not just .NET developers, all developers even the citizen developer which is a developer which is a developer who doesn't have to see the code anymore but wants to be able to add that value to what they're doing in their organization. So if you're a developer, Microsoft is here to help full-stop. It's a powerful mission and a powerful message that you are really empowering everyone here. >> Donovan: Right. >> Excellent. >> And how many developers only program in one language now, right? I thought I remember I used to be a C++ programmer and I thought that was it, right. I knew the best language, I knew the fastest language. And then all of a sudden, I knew CSharp and I knew Java and I knew JavaScript and I brought a lot of PowerShell right now and I write it on and noticed like wow, no one knows one language. But I never leave Visual Studio code. I deploy all my workloads into Azure. I didn't have to change my infrastructure or my tools to switch languages. I just switched languages that fit whatever the problem was that I was trying to solve. So I live the mantra that we tell our customers. I don't just do .NET development. Although I love .NET and it's my go-to language if I'm starting from scratch but sometimes I'm going to go help in an open source project that's written in some other language and I want to be able to help them. With Visual Studio online, we made that extremely easy. I don't even have to set up my development machine anymore. I can only click a link in a GitHub repository and the environment I need will be provisioned for me. I'll use it, check in my commits and then throw it away when I'm done. It's the world of being a developer now and I always giggle 'cause I'm thinking I had to drive to a store and buy my first compiler and now I can have an entire environment in minutes that is ready to rock and roll. It's just I wish I would learn how to program now and not when I was on bulletin boards asking for help and waiting three days for someone to respond. I didn't have Stack Overflow or search engines and things like that. It's just an amazing time to be a developer. >> Yes, indeed. Indeed it is Donovan Brown, the man in the black shirt. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> My pleasure. Thank you for having me. >> It was really fun. Thank you. >> Take care. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. (upbeat music)