(upbeat music) >> We're back at AWS re:Invent 2021. You're watching theCUBE and we're really excited to have Adam Williams on, he's a senior director of engineering at Iron Mountain. Som Shahapurkar, who's the product engineering of vertical solutions at Iron Mountain. Guys, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you >> Thank you. All right Adam, we know Iron Mountain trucks, tapes, what's new? >> What's new. So we've developed a SaaS platform for digitizing, classifying and bringing out and unlocking the value of our customer's data and putting their data to work. The content services platform that we've developed, goes together with an IDP that we call an intelligent document processing capability to do basic content management, but also to do data extraction and to increase workflow capabilities for our customers. >> Yeah, so I was kind of joking before Iron Mountain, the legacy business of course, everybody's seeing the trucks, but $4 billion company, $13 billion market cap, the stock's been on fire. The pandemic obviously has been a tailwind for you guys, but Som, if you had to describe it to like my mother, what's the sound bite that you'd give. >> Well the sound bite, as everyone knows data is gold today, right? And we are sitting figuratively and literally on a mountain of data. And now we have the technology to take that data partner with AWS, the heavy machinery to convert that into value, into value that people can use to complete the human story of healthcare, of mortgage, finance. A lot of this sits in systems, but it also sits in paper. And we are bridging that paper to digital divide, the physical and digital divide to create one story. >> This has been a journey for you guys. I mean, I recall that when you kind of laid this vision out a number of years ago, I think he made some acquisitions. And so maybe take us through that amazing transformation that Iron Mountain has made, but help the audience understand that. >> Transformations really been going from the physical records management that we've built our business around to evolving with our customers, to be able to work with all of the digital documents and not just be a transportation and records management storage company, but to actually work with them, to put their data to work, allowing them to be able to digitize a lot of their content, but also to bring in already digitized content and rich media. >> One of the problems that always existed, especially if you go back to back of my brain, 2006, the federal rules of civil procedure, which said that emails could now be evidence in a case and everyone like, oh, I don't like, how do I find email. So one of the real problems was classifying the information for retention policies. The lawyers wanted to throw everything out after whatever six or seven years, the business people wanted to keep everything forever. Neither of those strategies work, so classification and you couldn't do it manually. So have you guys solved that problem? How do you solve that problem? Does the machine intelligence help? It used to be, I'll use support vector machines or math or probabilistic, latent, semantic, indexing, all kinds of funky stuff. And now we enter this cloud world, have you guys been able to solve that problem and how? >> So our customers already have 20 plus years of retention rules and guidelines that are built within our systems. And we've helped them define those over the years. So we're able to take those records, retention schedules that they have, and then apply them to the documents. But instead of doing that manually, we're able to do that using our classification capabilities with AI ML and that Som's expertise. >> Awesome, so lay it on me. How do you guys do that? It's a lot of math. >> Yeah, so it can get complicated real fast, but at a simple level, what's changed really from support beta machines of 2006 to today is the scale at which we can do it, right? The scale at which we are bringing those technologies. Plus the latest technologies of deep learning, your conventional neural networks going from a bag of characters and words to really the way humans look at it. You look at a document and you know this is an invoice or this is a prescription, you don't have to even know to read to know that, machines are now capable of having that vision, the computer vision to say prescription, invoice. So we train those models and have them do it at industrial scale. >> Yeah, because humans are actually pretty bad at classifying at scale. >> At scale like their back. >> You remember, we used to try to do, oh, it was just tag it, oh, what a nightmare. And then when something changes and so now machines and the cloud and Jane said, how about, I mean, I presume highly regulated industries are the target, but maybe you could talk about the industry solutions a little bit. >> Right. Regulated industries are a challenge, right. Especially when you talk about black box methodologies like AI, where we don't know, okay, why does it classify this as this and that is that? But that's where I think a combined approach of what we are trying to say, composite AI. So the human knowledge, plus AI knowledge combined together to say, okay, we know about these regulations and hey, AI, be cognizant of this regulations while you do our stuff, don't go blindly. So we keep the AI in the guardrails and guided to be within those lines. >> And other part of that is we know our customers really well. We spent a lot of time with them. And so now we're able to take a lot of the challenges they have and go meet those needs with the document classification. But we also go beyond that, allowing them to implement their own workflows within the system, allowing them to be able to define their own capabilities and to be able to take those records into the future and to use our content management system as a true content services platform. >> Okay, take me through the before and the after. So the workflow used to be, I'd ring you up, or maybe you come in and every week grab a box of records, put them in the truck and then stick them in the Iron Mountain. And that was the workflow. And you wanted them back, you'd go get it back and it take awhile. So you've digitized that whole and when you say I'm inferring that the customer can define their own workflow because it's now software defined, right. So that's what you guys have engineered. Some serious engineering work. So what's the tech behind that. Can you paint a picture? >> So the tech behind it is we've run all of our cloud systems and Kubernetes. So using Kubernetes, we can scale really, really large. All of our capabilities are obviously cloud-based, which allows us to be able to scale rapidly. With that we run elastic search is our search engine and MongoDB is our no SQL database. And that allows us to be able to run millions of documents per minute through our system. We have customers that we're doing eight million documents a day for the reel over the process. And they're able to do that with a known level of accuracy. And they can go look at the documents that have had any exceptions. And we can go back to what Som was talking about to go through and retrain models and relabel documents so that we can catch that extra percentage and get it as close to 100% accuracy as we would like, or they would like. >> So what happens? So take me through the customer experience. What is that like? I mean, do they still... we you know the joke, the paperless bathroom will occur before the paperless office, right? So there's still paper in the office, but so what's the workload? I presume a lot of this is digitized at the office, but there's still paper, so help us understand that. >> Customers can take a couple of different paths. One is that we already have the physical documents that they'd like us to scan. We call that backfile scanning. So we already have the documents, they're in a box they're in a record center. We can move them between different records centers and get them imaged in our high volume scanning operation centers. From there-- >> Sorry to interrupt. And at that point, you're auto classifying, right? It's not already classified, I mean, it kind of is manually, but you're going to reclassify it on creation. >> Correct. >> Is that electronic document? >> For some of our customers, we have base metadata that gives us some clues as to what documents may be. But for other documents, we're able to train the models to know if their invoices or if their contracts commonly formatted documents, but customers can also bring in their already digitized content. They can bring in basic PDFs or Word documents or Google Docs for instance, but they can also bring in rich media, such as video and audio. And from there, we also do a speech to text for video and audio, in addition to just basic OCR for documents. >> Public sector, financial services, health care, insurance, I got to imagine that those have got to be the sweet spots. >> Another sweet spot for us is the federal space in public sector. We achieved FedRAMP, which is a major certification to be able to work with, with the federal government. >> Now, how would he work with AWS? What's your relationship with them? How do you use the cloud? Maybe you could describe that a little bit. >> Well, yeah, at multiple levels, right? So of course we use their cloud infrastructure to run our computing because with the AI and machine learning, you need a lot of computing power, right. And AWS is the one who can reliably provide it, space to store the digital data, computing the processes, extract all the information, train our models, and then process these, like he's talking about, we are talking about eight, 12, 16 million documents a day. So now you need seconds and sub second processing times, right? So at different levels, at the company infrastructure level, also the AI and machine learning algorithms levels, AWS has great, like Tesseract is one the ones that everyone knows but there is others purpose-built model APIs that we utilize. And then we'll put our secret sauce on top of that to build that pathway up and make it really compelling. >> And the secret sauce is obviously there's a workflow and the flexibility of the workflow, there's the classification and the machine learning and intelligence and all the engineering that makes the cloud work you manage. What else is there? >> Knowledge graphs, like he was saying, right, the domain. So mortgage is not that a document that looks very similar in mortgage versus a bank stated mortgage and bank statement in healthcare have different meanings. You're looking at different things. So you have something called a knowledge graph that maintains the knowledge of a person working in that field. And then we have those created for different fields and within those fields, different applications and use cases. So that's unique and that's powerful. >> That provides the ability to prior to hierarchy for our customers, so they can trace a document back to the original box that was given to us some many years ago. >> You got that providence and that lineage, I know you're not go to market guys, but conceptually, how do you price? Is it that, it's SaaS? Is it licensed? Is it term? Is it is a consumption based, based on how much I ingest? >> We have varying different pricing models. So we first off we're in six major markets from EU, Latin America, North America and others that we serve. So within those markets, we offer different capabilities. We have an essentials offering on AWS that we've launched in the last two weeks that allows you to be able to bring in base content. And that has a per object pricing. And then from there, we go into our standard edition that has ability to bring in additional workflows and have some custom pricing. And then we have what we call the enterprise. And for enterprise, we look at the customer's problem. We look at custom AI and ML models who might be developing and the solution that we're having to build for them and we provide a custom price and capability for what they need. >> And then the nativists this week announced a new glacier tier. So you guys are all over that. That's where you use it, right? The cheapest and the deepest, right? >> Yeah, one of the major things that AWS provides us as well is the compliance capabilities for our customers. So our customers really require us to have highly secure, highly trusted environments in the cloud. And then the ability to do that with data sovereignty is really important. And so we're able to meet that with AWS as well. >> What do you do in situations where AWS might not have a region? Do you have to find your own data center to do that stuff or? >> Well, so data privacy laws can be really complex. When you work with the customer, we can often find that the nearest data center in their region works, but we also do, we've explored the ability to run cloud capabilities within data centers, within the region that allows us to be able to bridge that. We also do have offerings where we can run on-premise, but obviously our focus here is on the cloud. >> Awesome business. Does Iron Mountain have any competitors? I mean like... >> Yeah. >> You don't have to name them, but I mean, this is awesome business. You've been around for a long time. >> And we found that we have new competitors now that we're in a new business. >> They are trying to disrupt and okay. So you guys are transforming as an incumbent. You're the incumbent disruptor. >> Yes. >> Yes, it's self disruption to some extent, right. Saying, hey, let's broaden our horizon perspective offering value. But I think the key thing is, I want to focus more on the competitive advantage rather than the competitors is that we have the end to end flow, right? From the high volume scanning operations, trucking, the physical world, then up and about into the digital world, right? So you extract it, it's not just PDFs. And then you go into database, machine learnings, unstructured to structured extraction. And then about that value added models. It's not just about classification. Well, now that you have classified and you have all this documents and you have all this data, what can you glean from it? What can you learn about your customers, the customers, customers, and provide them better services. So we are adding value all throughout this chain. And think we are the only ones that can do that full stack. >> That's the real competitive advantage. Guys, really super exciting. Congratulations on getting there. I know it's been a lot of hard work and engineering and way to go. >> Thank you. >> It's fun. >> Dave: It's good, suppose to have you back. >> Thanks. >> All right and thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del technologies. World twenty nineteen, brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of dental technologies. World to K nineteen here in Las Vegas. I'm your host. Her back tonight along with my co host stew Minimum wear, joined by Cliff Mad Drew. He is the VP cloud solution, architecture and engineering >> at Iron Mountain. Thank you so much for coming on the Q. >> Thank you so much for having me. I truly appreciate the opportunity. >> So Iron Mountain, we know the trucks, but But there's more to the story now. So I want you to tell us a little bit about the company and about how you're expanding into new terrain. >> Absolutely. So I mean, you said it right. Most people know us for the trucks. They know us for physical asset management records management. Um and you know how we help customers protect their physical information? Um, you know, we've been through an evolution. We've been through a transformation as a company, evolving with our customers to help them as they digitally transform. And what's interesting for our customers in particular is that they live, you know, in this world of physical and a digital realm, and how do they move from one to the other? Um, and that's where we focused a lot around. Building our portfolio of services is helping our customers through that transformation along with everything that we've done, you know, in in history and through history and our legacy around protecting physical information. We've carried through into our services with a focus on what we call Iron Cloud, which is built around that same chain of custody, that same security for our customers. And we're leveraging a lot of Delhi emcee technology within Iron Cloud to make that happen for our customers. >> So as as your transforming, you are helping other companies transformed to >> wear customer focus, and we're moving right along with our customers to help enable them. >> Cliff. It's been fascinating to watch, you know, the traditional storage industry is now focused on the data more than ever. And, you know, we hear so many stats about you know how much data is available searchable. You know, I think backto iron mountains like OOO for governance, require requirement or for a legal issue or things like that I had to retain. But tell us how the changing world of data, you know, you were in a teacher. That's a data deserves better. S O. I think data's probably central to what you're talking about. An absolutely, in the cloud. How that's changing how your customers look. ATT data >> data is at the core of everything that we talked about with our customers. Um, And I work, you know, within specifically our data management group, Uh, and to your point, you know, focus on customers data. And how are they able, Teo? Either leverage the historical data that they're currently storing with us leverage the physical data that needs to be transformed into something that's digital digital, something that searchable. Um, you know, we've just recently launched Tool called Insight, which gives full analytics capabilities on some of those data sets for our customers. And then how do you maintain the protection of that data in its digital format? And, you know, even if you go to our tape based business, which is all about data protection and getting that data protected off site well, in the world where people are, you know, looking to the cloud for hybrid strategies, looking for as a service type offerings. They're trying to move away from that physicality and having to manage that information physically. And so you know, for those customers in particular, were able to take a look at their data requirements, and we're able to help them evolve that strategy to make sure that they're go forward in the cloud is meeting the same needs, whether its compliance you mentioned, you know, regulation right regulatory needs around building out a strategy, our information, governance tools around policy management. And how do you ensure the appropriate retention of that data? Well, mitigating your risk and not keeping things for too long. All of those play into the hybrid world and in particular into a multi cloud world. Right, which we hear. A lot of these shows is talking about howto leverage, you know, best in breed SAS applications and other applications that are either posted in the cloud are here. Migrating were close to the cloud, the same challenges that all of our customers have really seen with the physical assets that they've managed in the past. Those challenges still exist, but in a digital realm, right? And so it is. So you know, when you think about that, you're now creating these silos of information. Well, if eighty to ninety percent of that data is infrequently access archival, our needs to be retained. You know, Teo, to meet a compliance need. How are you? How are you still managing that? And how are you able to do that? You know, in that multi cloud world. And and that's where we're helping our customers understand the information they're managing. Understand how Teo apply policy to that data. How did you know really garner insight from that data? Because again, it's all about the data. Like you said so. >> But cybersecurity is another very important priority. Uh, let's back up a little bit and just sort of laid the foundation for our viewers about breeches and about attacks. I >> I see a statistic here. Verizon Data Breach index. Twenty eight percent of cyber attacks >> were committed by inside actors. We keep thinking about these nefarious actors being from foreign nations in these other hostile but inside. So So what is it? Talk a little bit about that? >> Absolutely. When you start to develop a you know, We like to talk a lot about cyber resiliency. So cyber security, you know, incorporates a lot of things. Some of those things are around, you know, the prevention of bad actors from gaining access to your data. But we think about a lot around. How do you ensure you can recover when you have an attack? And, you know, how do you protect the data so that you can recover the data when you have an attack? And we're trying to help our customers understand? To help them develop is a strategy around recovery, because you know that there's no such thing as complete prevention and even leveraging some of the tools and some things that have been announced at the show. You know that SecureWorks is working on and, you know, some day I base tools, although you know you can drastically reduce your risk of an attack. The reality from my perspective, is you cannot prevent an attack, and so you need to ensure the data's protected. And when you think about an insider threat, so twenty eight percent you know of attacks are from an insider perspective. And actually roughly sixty eight percent of attacks come from unnoticed for months, and so that means someone's on your network. That means they're monitoring you from the inside, and they're trying to understand you know, the patterns and how you protect things. And how can they infiltrate that process? And, you know, when when we work with customers we're looking at first. How do you identify the critical data that you could not recover your business? You know, if you were to lose it or if it were to be destroyed, and we help them build strategies with what we call critical protection of recovery are CPR service that takes a copy of that information. It's managed by Iron Mountain, which I think is one of the most critical critical aspects of the service because an insider threat, it's something that's very hard to prevent when someone understands the inner workings of your you know of your environment. So by having that that solution managed by us having that put in one of the most secure data centers in the world. So you know, we spent over two billion dollars last year on data centers, and we have some of the most secure facilities in the world. It really helps customers prevent that insider threat >> is Clifton with one word? I didn't hear that. I was expecting here in that discussion. Was Ransomware okay? Sure. How does that fit in >> church? So, I mean, ransom were just one of the multitude of different, uh, challenges that our customers are faced with when it comes to, you know, cyber protection, you know? So from a ransomware perspective in particular, uh, I think it's roughly twenty percent cos they're So you know, we're not able to recover their data from ransom where I think the number is probably even higher than that. And again, back up and disaster recovery are not cyber resiliency solutions. They can give you a level of protection, and in some cases, you can recover from ransomware by restoring a backup data set. But depending on how you're figured, if your data is online, you know, with the with the amount in particular, we know an awful lot about the tape business. One of the values of tape is being able take date offline. But again, you know, one of the things that customers are moving away from its having Teo manually, you know, manage that process. And so, with something like Iron Cloud and with CPR, we could take that data and we can create an air gap so that you have the protection from the network. So if you have a ransomware type event or something that crawls your network, you have an air gap. Now, from the network perspective, your data is isolated because of that air gap, and then the third component is really an administrative air gaff. And this is the one around any type of insider attack or ensuring that, you know one of your employees because, you know, seventeen percent of attacks or social attacks, right? So again, all the software in the world can't change. You know, uh, you know, psychological attack on one of your employees who does have access to a system. And so you know so again, having that administrative air gap is what we like to call it, where you have an independent third party that is now protecting that data in an air gapped format. And again, we offer the ability to take it down to tape so you can still have many versions to recover from, because if you have, you know, an attack that's been months on your system, and you need to get a clean version of a file. Now we have the ability to bring that into what we call a clean room. Have that friend you can run your forensics on that in a very secure environment that it gets completely isolated from, You know, where your date has been attacked and then, you know, bring that data back to recover successfully from ransom. Where any. You know any other >> you give us some >> examples of customers that air using iron cloud CPR and been in the business impact that they're seeing? >> Sure. Yeah. So you know what? One of our more recent customers is an insurance provider in the Boston area, And they, you know, they wanted to ensure that the policy data for their customers was protected against any type of attack, right, And that they could always recover that information. Um, in their case in particular, they're data domain user. They want to leverage the technology they've already invested in as a, you know, as a way to get Iron Mountain, the data and, you know, with Iron Cloud, we support, uh, CPR for data domain. So we have the ability to take that data and replicate that data to our iron cloud and then, you know, offer for the air gapping and offer the cyber resiliency solution to those customers. So, um, that customer in particular again, you know that that major data base in a couple of databases that had their customer information is what they wanted to protect. And in many cases, you know, our customers don't always know what they want to protect. So we're helping a lot of customers right now understand their data and, you know, leverage some of our advisory services. To understand what, that you know what those crown jewels are. What? You know what it is that we really need to ensure is protected from a cyber perspective. And, you know, we're also dealing with a lot of right now financial institutions. So, you know, when you get Teo, you no account information transaction data ensuring that that information is protected again. That's a strong point for cyber resiliency solution for my remount. >> So, Cliff, the expo holes right behind us over the shoulder here for the people that didn't make it to give me a little flavor as toe. You know, What's the energy been any cool things you saw And you know, any meaningful conversations or talking delivered from customers? >> Yeah. I mean, the energy is infectious in a good way, you know, It's it's it's I always love these shows, but the amount of customers and Iron Mountain particularly. We have two hundred thirty five thousand customers. A lot of our customers attend, attend these shows and to be able to engage with them and have them understand our revolution were very well known, you know, for our records business, far shredding business. And not everyone understands. It brought the services that we can offer when it comes to digital information and helping them through their transformation. So some of just the speaking engagements that I've had here, you know, the crowds of people gathering and understanding and following up at the booth. Teo, really? I understand more about how we can help and scheduling follow up sessions so that we can help them through that transformation, whether they're coming off of tape, where they have critical assets that need protection, critical data that, you know they're interested in CPR, for I've had so many engaging conversation. So it's always great. >> Look, Cliff, thank you so much for coming on the cute way. Appreciate. It was a great conversation. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stew Minutemen. You've been watching the cubes live coverage of Del Technologies World. We will see you next time.

>> We're back at AWS reinvent 2021. You're watching theCUBE. We're here live with one of the first live events, very few live events this year. It's the biggest hybrid event really of the year, of the season. Hopefully it portends a great future. We don't know it's a lot of uncertainty, but AWS said they're going to go for it. Close to 30,000 people here, Chris Wiborg is here. He's the VP of product marketing at Cohesity. Chris, great to see you face to face man. >> It's great to see you live again Dave. You understand that. >> Over the last couple of years we've had a lot of virtual meetup, hang out, and we talk every other quarter. >> Yeah. >> So it's great to see. Wow. You know, we were talking before the show. Well, we didn't really know what it was going to be like. I don't think AWS knew. >> No. >> It's like everything these days. >> You know, we did our own virtual event back in October because that was the time. And this is the first thing we've been back to live. And I was wondering, what's going to be like when I show up, but it's great to see all the folks that are here. >> Yeah. So I could see the booth. You know, you guys have had some good traffic. >> We have, yeah. >> A lot of customers here, obviously huge ecosystem. This, you know, the "flywheel keeps going". >> Yeah. You and I had a conversation recently about data management. It's something that you guys have put a stake in the ground. >> Absolutely. >> Saying, you know, we're not just backup, we're a good data management. It's fuzzy to a lot of people, we've had that conversation, but you're really starting to, through customer feedback, hone that message and the product portfolio. So let's start from the beginning. What is data management to cohesity? >> Well, so for us it's about the data lifecycle, right? And you heard a little bit about this actually during the keynote today, right? >> Right. >> When you think about the various services, you need to apply to data along the way to do basic things like protect it, be able to make sure you can recover from disasters, obviously deal with security today given the prevalence of ransomware out there, all the way down to at the end, how do you get more value out of it? And we do that in some cases with our friends from AWS using some of their AIML services. >> So your view of data may mean, it's kind of stops at the database right underneath. There's an adjacency to security that we've talked about. >> Yeah, very much. >> Data protection is now becoming an increasingly important component of a security strategy. >> It is. >> It's not a direct security play, but it's just the same way that it's not just the SecOps team has to worry about security anymore. It's kind of other parts of the organization. Talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, well, we actually had a customer advisory board about two months or so ago now. And we talked to many of our customers there, and one of them I won't name, a large financial institution. We asked them, you know, where did we stand in your spend these days? And he's able to tell you, a while back about a year ago, having new backup and recovery is a starting point was kind of on the wishlist. And he said today it's number two. And I said, well why? He said well, because of ransomware, right? You'd be able to come back from that and ask, well, great, what's number one? He said, well, endpoint security. So there you are, number one and number two, right? Top of mind for customers these days in dealing with really the scourge that's affecting so many organizations out there. And I think where you're going, you starting to see these teams work together in a way that perhaps they hadn't before, or you've got the SecOps team, you've got the IT operations team. And while exactly your point, we don't position ourselves as just a data security company, that's part of what we do. We are part of that strategy now where if you have to think about the various stages and dealing with that, defending your backups, 'cause that's often the first point of attack now for the bad guys. Being able to detect what's going on through AI and the anomaly detection and such, and then being able to rapidly recover, right? In the recover phase, that's not something that security guys spend time on necessarily, but it's important for the business to be able to bring themselves back when they're subject to an attack, and that's where we come in in spades. >> Yeah. So the security guys are busy trying to figure out, okay, what happened? How do we stop it from happening again? >> There's another business angle which is okay, how do we get back up and running? How much data did we lose? Ideally none. How fast can we get it back up? That's that's another vector that's now becoming part of that broader security stack. >> That's right. I mean, I think if you look at the traditional NIST cybersecurity framework, right? Stage five has always been the recover piece. And so this is where we're working with some of the players in the security space. You may see an announcement we did with Cisco around secure access recently. Where, you know, we're working together, not only to unite two tribes within large organizations. Right? The SecOps and ITOps guys. But then bringing vendors together because it's through that, that really, we think we're going to solve that problem best. >> Before we get into the portfolio, and I want to talk about how you've evolved that, let's talk a little about ransomware, it's in the news. You know, I just wrote a piece recently and just covered some of the payments that have made. I mean, I think the biggest is 40 million, but many tens of millions here and there. And it was, you know, one case, I think it was the Irish health service did not pay, thus far hasn't paid, but it's costing him $600 million to recover as the estimate. So this is serious threat. And as I've said, many times on theCUBE, exactly anybody can be a ransomware as they go on the dark web. >> Ransomware is a service. >> Right, ransomware is a service. Hey, can you set up a help desk for me to help me negotiate? And I'm going to put a stick into a server and you know, I hope that individual gets arrested but you never know. Okay. So now it's top of mind, what are you guys doing? First of all, what are you seeing from customers? How are they responding? What are you guys doing to help? >> Well, I think you're right. First of all, it's just a huge problem. I think the latest stat I saw was something like every 11 seconds there's a new attack because I can go into your point with a credit card, sign up as a service and then launch an attack. And the average payment is around 4.2 million or such, but there's some that are obviously lots bigger. And I think what's challenging is beyond the costs of recovering and invent itself is there's also the issue around brand and reputation, and customer service. And all these downstream effects that I think, you know, the IT guys don't think about necessarily. We talked to one customer or a regional hospital where the gentleman there told me that what he's starting to see after the fact is now, you've actually got class action suits from patients coming after them saying like, "Hey you, you let my data get stolen. Right? Can you imagine no IT guys thinking about that. So the cost is huge. And so it's not just an issue I think that was once upon a time just for ITOps or SecOps through the CIO, even it's even past the board level now if you can imagine. It's something the general public worries about and we actually did a survey recently where we asked people on the consumer side, are you more or less likely to do business with companies if you know they've been subject to ransomware or attacks? And they said, no, we are concerned about that, we are more reticent to do business with people as consumers if they're not doing the right things to defend their business against ransomware. Fascinating. Right? It's long past the tipping point where this is an IT only issue. >> So, high-level strategy. So we talk about things like air gaps, when I talked about your service to ensure immutability, >> Yeah, yeah. >> And at 50,000 foot level, what's the strategy then I want to get into specifics on it. >> Let's talk a little bit about, so the evolution of the attack, nature of attacks, right? So once upon a time, this is in the distant past now, the bad guys that you used to come after your production data, right? And so that was pretty easy to fix with companies like us. It's just restore from backup. They got a little smarter< let's call that ransomware 2.0, right? Where now, they say, let's go after the backup first and encrypt or destroy that. And so there, to your point, you need immutability down to the file system level. So you can't destroy the backup. You got to defend the backup data itself. And increasingly we're seeing people take in isolation in a different way than they used to. So you probably recall the sort of standard three, two, one rule, right? >> Yeah, sure. >> Where the one traditionally meant, take that data offsite on magnetic tape, send it to Iron mountain for example, and then get the data back when I need it. Well, you know, if your business is at risk, trying to recover from tape, it just takes too long. That's just no reason. >> It can be weeks. >> It can be weeks and you've got to locate the tapes, you got to ship them, then you got to do the restore. And just because of the physical media nature, it takes a while. So what we're starting to see now is people figuring out how to use the cloud as a way to do that and be able to have effectively that one copy stored offsite in a different media, and use the cloud for that. And so one of the things we announced actually back in our show in October, was a new service that allows you to do just that. We're calling it for now Project Fort Knox. We're not sure if that name is going to work globally, right? But the idea is a bunker, an isolated copy of the data in the cloud that's there, that can restore quickly. Now, is it as fast as having a local replica copy? Of course not. But, it's way better than tape. And this is a way to really give you that sort of extra layer of insurance on top of what you're already doing probably to protect your data. >> And I think that's the way to think of it. It's an extra layer. It's not like, hey, do this instead of tape, you're still going to do tape, you know. >> There's some that do that for all sorts of reasons, including compliance and governance and regulatory ones. Right? >> Yeah. >> And, you know, even disaster recovery scenarios of the worst case, I hope I never have to go through it. Yeah, you could go to the cloud. >> That's right. >> So, local copy is the best. If that's not there, you've got your air gap copy in the cloud. >> Yap. >> If that's not there for some crazy reason. >> We have a whole matrix we've been sharing with our customers recently with a different options. Right? And it's actually really interesting the conversation that occurs between the IT operations folks, and the SecOps folks back to that. So, you know, some SecOps folks, if they could, they just unplug everything from the network, it's safe. Right? But they can't really do business that way. So it's always a balance of what's the return that you need to meet. And by return I mean, coming back from an attack or disaster versus the security. And so again, think of this as an extra layer that gives you that ability to sleep better at night knowing that you've got a third, a tertiary copy, stored somewhere offsite in a different media, but you can bring it back at the same time. >> How have you evolve your portfolio to deal with both the data management trends that we've talked about and the cyber threats. >> Yeah. Well, a number of things. So amongst the other announcements we made back in October is DR. So DR is not a security thing per se, you know, who gets paged when something goes wrong? It's not the info SEC guys for DR, it's the ITOps guys. And so we've always had that capability, but one of the things we announced is be able to do that to do that to the cloud now in AWS. So, instead of site to site, being able to do it site to cloud, and for some organizations, that is all about being able to maybe eliminate a secondary site, you know, smaller organizations, others that are larger enterprises, they probably have a hybrid strategy where that's a part of their strategy now. And the value there is, it's an OpEx cost, right? It's not CapEx anymore. And so again, you lower your cost of operations. So that's one thing in the data management side. On the security side, another thing we announced was yet another service that runs in AWS, we call Cohesity Data Govern. And this is a way to take a look at your data before something ever occurs. One of the key things in dealing with ransomware is hygiene is prevention, right? And so you sort of have classically security folks that are trying to protect your data, and then another set of folks, certainly a large enterprise that are more on the compliance regulatory front, wanting to know where your PII is, your private sensitive data. And we believe those things need to come together. So this data governance product actually does that. It takes a look at first classifying your data, and then being able to detect anomalies in terms of who's coming in from where to get to it, to help you proactively understand what's at threat, and first of all, you know, where your crown jewels really are and make sure that you're protecting those appropriately and maybe modifying access policies If you have set up in your existing native applications,. So it's a little bit of awareness, a little bit prevention, and then when things start to go wrong, another layer that helps you know what's wrong. >> I love that the other side of the coin, I mean, you going to get privacy as a service along with my data protection as a service, know that's a better model. Tight on time sir, but the last question. >> Sure. >> The ecosystem. >> Yeah. >> So you mentioned endpoint security, I know identity access is cloud security, and since the remote work has really escalated, we talk about the ecosystem and some of the partnerships that you're enabling, API integration. >> Yeah, totally. So, you know, we have this, what we call our threat defense model, has got four layers to it. One is the core, is all about resiliency. You need to assume failure. We have, you know, the ability to fail over, fail back down our file system. It has to be immutable to keep the bad guys out. You have to have encryption, basic things like that. The next layer, particularly in this world of zero trust. Right? Is you have to have various layers access control, obvious things like multifactor authentication, role-based access control, as well as things like quorum features. It's the two keys in the safety deposit box to unlock it. But that's not enough. The third layer is AI powered anomaly detection, and being able to do data classification and stuff and such. But then the fourth layer, and this was beyond just us, is the ability to easily integrate in that ecosystem. Right? So I'll go back to the Cisco example I gave you before. We know that despite having our own admin console, there's no SecOps person that's going to be looking at that. They're going to look at something like a SecureAX, or maybe a Palo Alto XR, and be able to pull signals from different places including endpoints, including firewall. >> You going to feed that. >> Exactly. So we'll send signals over that, they can get a better view and then because we're all API based, they can actually invoke the remedy on their side and initiate the workflow that then triggers us to do the right thing from a data protection standpoint, and recovery standpoint. >> It's great to have you here. Thanks so much for coming on. >> It's good to see you again live today. >> See you in the evolution of cohesity. Yes, absolutely. Hopefully we do this a lot in 2022, Chris. >> Absolutely, looking forward to. >> All right. Me too. All right, thank you for watching this is theCUBE's coverage, AWS reinvent. We are the leader in high tech coverage, we'll be right back.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud. Next on Air 20. Hi, I'm Stew Minimum And and this is the Cube's coverage of Google Cloud next 20 on air, Of course. Last year we were all in person in San Francisco. This year it's an online experience. It's actually spanning many weeks and this week when we're releasing the Cube interviews, talking about application modernization, happy to welcome back program two of our Cube alumni. Chris Well, I've got Aparna Sinha, Uh, who is the director of product management, and joining her is Pali Bhat, who's the vice president of product and design, both with Google Cloud Poly. Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Good to be here. >>Well, so it goes without saying it. That 2020 has had quite a lot of changes. Really affect it. Start with you. You know, obviously there's been a lot of discussion is what is the impact of the global pandemic? The ripple in the economy on cloud. So I would love to hear a little bit. You know what you're hearing from your customers. What? That impact has been on on you and your business. >>Yes to thank thank you for asking as I look at our customers, what's been most inspiring for me to see is how organizations and the people in those organizations are coming together to help each other during this unprecedented event. And one of the things I wanted to highlight is, as we all adjust to this sort of new normal, there are two things that I keep seeing across every one of our customers. Better operation efficiency, with the focus on cost saving is something that's a business imperative and has drawn urgency. And the second bit is an increased focus on agility and business innovation. In the current atmosphere, where digital has truly become gone from being one of the channels being D channel, we're seeing our customers respond by being more innovative and reaching their customers in the way that they want to be rich. And that's been, for me personally, very inspiring to see. And we turned on Google Cloud to be a part of helping our customers in this journey in terms of our business itself. We're seeing tremendous momentum around our organization business because it plays directly into these two business imperatives around operational efficiency, cost saving and, of course, business innovation and agility. In Q two of 2020 we saw more than 100,000 companies use our application modernization platform across G ke and those cloud functions Cloud Run and our developers tools. So we've been, uh, just tagged with the response of how customers are using our tools in order to help them run their businesses, operate more efficiently and be more innovative on behalf of their customers. So we're seeing customers use everything from building mission critical applications who then securing, migrating and then operating our services. And we've also seen that customers get tremendous benefits. We've seen up to a 35% increase simply by using our own migration tools. And we've also seen it up to 75% improvement to all of the automation and re platform ing that they can do with our monetization platform. That's been incredible. What I do want to do. Those have a partner chime in on some of the complexity that these customers are seeing and how we're going about trying to address that >>Yes, eso to help our customers with the application modernization journey. Google Cloud really offers three highly differentiated capabilities. Us to the first one is really providing a consistent development and operations experience, and this is really important because you want the same experience, regardless of whether you're running natively in Google Cloud or you're running across clouds or you're running hybrid or you're running at the edge. And I think this is a truly unique differentiator off what we offer. Secondly, we really give customers and their developers industry leading guidance. And this is particularly important because there's a set of best practices on how you do development, how you run these applications, how you operate them in production for high reliability, a exceptional security staff, the stature and for the maximum developer efficiency on. And we provide the platform and the tooling to do that so that it can be customized to it's specific customers needs and their specific place on that modernization journey. And then the third thing on and I think this is incredibly important as well is that we would ride a data driven approach, a data driven optimization and benchmarking approach so that we can tell you where you are with regard to best practice and then help you move towards best practice, no matter where you're starting. >>Yeah, well, thank you, Aparna and Polly definitely resonates with what we're hearing. You know, customers need to be data driven. And then there's the imperative Now that digital movement Pali last year at the show, of course, Antos was, you know, really the talk of the conference years gone by. We know things move really fast, so if you could, you know, probably don't have time to get all of the news, but share with us the updates what differentiated this year along from a new standpoint, >>Yeah, So we've got tremendous set off improvements to the platform. And one of the things that I wanted to just share was that our customers as they actually migrate on to onto the cloud and begin the modernization journeys in their digital transformation programs. What we're seeing over and over is those customers that start with the platform as opposed to an individual application, are set up for success in the future. The platform, of course, is an tos where your application modernization journey begins. In terms of updates, we're gonna share a series off updates in block post, etcetera. I just want to highlight a few. We're sharing their availability off Antos for their middle swathe things that our customers have been asking about. And now our customers get to run on those on Prem and at the edge without the need for a hyper visor. What this does is helps organizations minimize unnecessary overhead and ultimately unlock all of the new cloud and edge use case. The second bit is we're not in the GF our speech to text on prem capability, but this is our first hybrid AI capability. So customers like Iron Mountain get to use hybrid AI, so they have full control of the infrastructure and have control off their data so they can implement data residency and compliance while still leveraging all of Google Cloud AI capabilities. Third services identity again. This extends existing identity solutions so that you can seamlessly work on and those workloads again. This is going to be generally available for on premise customers and better for Antos on AWS, and you're going to see more and more customers be able to leverage their existing identity investments while still getting the consistency that Anton's provides across environments. In the last one that I like to highlight is on those attached clusters, which lets customers bring any kubernetes conforming cluster on Toronto's and still take advantage of the advanced capabilities that until provides like declarative configurations and service automation. So one of the customers I just want to call out is Cold just built it. Entire hybrid cloud strategy on Anton's Day began with the platform first, and now we're seeing a record number of customers on Cold Start camaraderie. Take advantage of Mantel's tempting. With Macquarie Bank played, there's a number of use cases. I am particularly excited about major league baseball. I'm a big fan of baseball, and Major League Baseball is now using and those for 2020 season and all of the stadium across, trusting a large amount of data and gives them the capability to get those capabilities in stadiums very, really acceptable. All of those >>Okay, quick, quick. Follow up on that and those attached clusters because it was one of the questions I had last year. Google Cloud has partnerships with VM Ware for what they're doing. You know, Red Hat and Pivotal also is part of the VM Ware families, and they have their own kubernetes offering. So should I be thinking of this as a management capability that's similar to like what? What Andrew does Or maybe as your arca, Or is it just a kind of interoperability piece? How do we understand how these multiple kubernetes fit together? >>Yeah. So what we've done with Antos has really taken the approach that we need to help our customers are made and manage the infrastructure to specifically what Antos attach clusters gives our customers is they can have any kubernetes cluster as long as it's kubernetes conformance, they can benefit from all of the things that we provide in terms of automation. One of the challenges, of course, is you know, those two is configuring these very, very large instances in walls. A lot of handcrafting today we can provide declarative configuration. So you automate all of that. So think of this as configures code I think of this is infrastructure scored management scored. We're providing that service automation layer on top of any kubernetes conforming cluster with an tools. >>Great. Alright, uh, it's at modernization weeks, so Ah, partner, maybe bring us in aside. You were talking about your customers and what their what they're doing to modernize what's new that they should be aware of this year. >>Yeah, so So, First of all, you know, our mission is really to accelerate innovation in every organization through making their developers more productive as well as automating their operations. And this is something that is resonating even more in these times. Specifically, I think the biggest news that we have is really around, how we're going to help companies get started with the application modernization so that they can maximize the impact of their modernization efforts. And to do this, we're introducing what we're calling. The Google Cloud Application Modernization program or a Google camp for short on Google Camp has three pieces. It has an assessment, which is really data driven and fact based. It's a baseline assessment that helps organizations understand where they are in terms of their maturity with application modernization. Secondly, we give them a blueprint. This is something that is, is it encapsulates a specific set of best practices, proven best practices from development to security to operations, and it's something that they can put into practice and implement immediately. These practices, they cover the entire application lifecycle from writing the code to the See I CD to running it and operating it for maximum reliability and security. And then the third aspect, of course, is the application platform. And this is a modern platform, but also extremely extensible. And, as you know, it spans across clouds on this enables organizations to build, run and secure and, of course, manage both legacy as well as new applications. And the good news, of course, here is you know, this is a time tested platform. It's something that we use internally as well. For our Cloud ML services are being query omni service capability as well as for apogee, hot hybrid and many more at over time. So with the Google campus really covered all aspects of the application lifecycle. And we think it's extremely important for enterprises to have this capability. >>Yeah, so a party when you talk about the extent ability, I would expect that Google Cloud Run is one of the options there to help give us a bridge to get to server list. If that's where customers looking to my right on >>that, that's rights to the camp program provides is holistic, and it brings together many of our capabilities. So Cloud Code Cloud See I CD Cloud Run, which is our server less offering and also includes G ki e and and those best practices. Because customers for their applications, they're usually using multiple platforms. Now, in the case of Cloud Run, in particular, I want to highlight that there's been a lot of interest in the serverless capability during this last few months. In particular, I think, disproportionate amount of interest and server lists on container Native. In fact, according to the CNC F 2020 State of Cloud Native Development Report, you might have seen that, you know, they noted that 2.7 million cloud native developers are using kubernetes and four million are using serverless architectures or cloud functions, and that about 60% of back and developers are now using containers. So this just points to the the usage that was happening already and is now really disproportionately accelerated. In our case, you know, we've we've worked with several customers at the New York State Department and Media Market. Saturn are two that are really excellent stories with the New York State Department. They had a unemployment claims crisis. There was a lot. Ah, volume. That was difficult for their application to handle. And so we worked with them to re architect their application as a set of micro services on Google Cloud on our public sector team of teamed up with them to roll out a new unemployment website in record time. That website was able to handle the 1600% increase in Web traffic compared to a typical week. And this is very much do, too, the dev ops tooling that we provided and we worked with them on and then with Media market Saturn. This is really an excellent example in EMEA based example of a retailer that was able to achieve an eight X increase in speed as well as a 40% cost reduction. And these are really important metrics in these times in particular because for a retailer in the Cove in 19 crisis, to be able to bring new applications and new features to the hands of their customers is ultimately something that impacts their business is extremely valuable. >>Yeah, you think you bring up a really great point of partner when I traditionally think of application modernization. Maybe I've been in the space to long. But it is. Simplicity is not. The first thing that comes to mind is probably pointed out right now. There's an imperative people need to move fast, so I want to throw it out to both of you. How is Google's trying to make sure that, you know, in these uncertain times that customers can move fast and that with all these technology options that it could be just a little bit simpler? >>Yeah, I think I just, uh you know, start off by saying the first thing we've done is build all of our services from the ground up with automation, simplicity and agility in mind. So we've designed for development teams and operations teams be able to take these solutions and get productive with them right away. In addition, we understand that some of our largest customers actually need dedicated program where they can actually assess where they are and then map out a plan for incremental improvement so they can get on their journey to application modernization. But do it with the highest our way. And that was Google camp that apartment talked about ultimately at Google Cloud. Our mission, of course, is to accelerate innovation. Every organization toe hold developer velocity improvements, but also giving them the operation automation that we talked about with that application modernization platform. So we're very excited to be able to do this with every organization. >>Great. Well, Aparna, I'll let you have the final word Is the application modernization week here at Google Cloud. Next online, you can have the final take away for customers. >>Well, thank you, cio. You know, we are extremely passionate about developers on. We want to make sure that it is easy for anyone, anywhere to be able to get started with development as well as to have a path to, uh, accelerated path to production for their applications. So some of what we've done in terms of simplicity, which, as you said is extremely important in this environment, is to really make it easy to get started on. Some of the announcements are around build packs and the integration of cloud code are plug ins to the development environment directly into our serverless environment. And that's the type of thing that gets me excited. And I think I'm very passionate about that because it's something that applies to everyone. Uh, you know, regardless of where they are or what type of person they are, they can get started with development. And that can be a path to economic renewal and growth not just for companies, but for individuals. And that's a mission that we're extremely passionate about. Google Cloud >>Apartment Poly Thank you so much for sharing all the updates. Congratulations to the team. And definitely great to hear about how you're helping customers in these challenging times. >>Thank you for having us on. >>Thank you. So great to see you again. >>Alright. Stay tuned for more coverage from stew minimum and, as always, Thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.