>> From around the globe, It's theCUBE. With digital coverage of IBM Think 2021, brought to you by IBM. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm John Furrier host of the CUBE. We got a great guest here. Brian Bouchard is the co-founder president and CEO of Alacrinet. Brian great to see you remoting in all the way from Puerto Rico to Palo Alto. >> That's right. >> Great to see you. >> Thanks for First of all, thanks John, for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. >> Yeah, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. First of all, before we get into what you guys do and and how this all ties in to Think. What do you guys do at Alacrinet? Why the name? A it's good you're at the top of the list and alphabetically, but tell us the, the, the the secret behind the name and what you guys do. >> So, first of all Alacrinet is based on the root word alacrity which means a prompt and willing, a prompt a joyous prompt to, excuse me, to achieve a common goal. So we ultimately are a network of individuals with the traits of alacrity. So Alacrinet. So that's our name. >> Great. So what's your relationship with IBM and how you guys have been able to leverage the partnership program in the marketplace? Take us through the relationship. >> So, well, first of all Alacrinet is a platinum IBM business partner and it was awarded recently the 2020 IBM North American partner of the year award. And we were selected amongst 1600 other business partners across North America. We've been actually a consulting, an IT consulting company for almost 20 years now. And we were founded in 2002 in Palo Alto and we have focused specifically on cyber security since 2013. And then as part, go ahead. >> What are some of the things that you guys are working on? Because obviously, you know, the business is hot right now. Everyone's kind of looking at COVID saying we're going to double down on the most critical projects and no time for leisurely activities when it comes to IT. And cloud scale projects, you know mission critical stuff's happening what are you guys working on? >> So we're, we're focused on cybersecurity, our security services really compliment IBM's suite of security solutions and cover the full spectrum from our research and penetration testing, which helps identify vulnerabilities before a breach occurs. And we also have managed security services which helps prevent, detect and remediate attacks in real time. And then finally, we also have a security staffing division and a software resell division, which kind of rounds out the full amount of offerings that we have to provide protection for our clients. >> What are some of the biggest challenges you guys have as a business, and how's IBM helping you address those? >> Well, as you know, John, we all know the importance of cybersecurity in today's world, right? So it's increasing in both demand and importance and it's not expected to wane anytime soon. Cyber attacks are on the rise and there's no there's no expected end in sight to this. And in fact, just this week on 60 minutes, Jay Powell, the chairman of the federal reserve board he noted that cyber attacks were the number one threat to the stability of the US economy. Also this week, a public school in Buffalo New York was hacked with ransomware and the school you know, this, the school district is just contemplating you know, paying the ransom to the hackers. So there's literally thousands of these attacks happening every day, whether it's in local school district or a state government, or an enterprise even if you don't hear about them, they're happening In adding to the complexity that the cyber attackers pose is the complexity of the actual cybersecurity tools themselves. There isn't a single solution provider or a single technology, that can ensure a company's security. Our customers need to work with many different companies and disconnected tools and processes to build an individual strategy that can adequately protect their organizations. >> You know, I love this conversation whenever I talk to practitioners on cybersecurity, you know that first of all, they're super smart, usually cyber punks and they also have some kinds of eclectic backgrounds, but more importantly is that there's different approaches in terms of what you hear. Do you, do you put more if you add more firefighters, so to speak to put out the fires and solve the problems? Or do you spend your time preventing the fires from happening in the first place? You know, and you know, the buildings are burning down don't make fire fire, don't make wood make fire resistance, you know, more of a priority. So there's less fires needing firefighters So it's that balance. You throw more firefighters at the problem or do you make the supply or the material the business fireproof, what's your take on that? >> Yeah, well, it kind of works both ways. I mean, we've seen customers want it. They really want choice. They want to, in some cases they want to be the firefighter. And in some cases they want the firefighter to come in and solve their problems. So, the common problem set that we're seeing with our that our customers encounter is that they struggle one, with too many disparate tools. And then they also have too much data being collected by all these disparate tools. And then they have a lack of talent in their environment to manage their environments. So what we've done at Alacrinet is we've taken our cybersecurity practice and we've really specifically tailored our offerings to address these core challenges. So first, to address the too many disparate tools problem, we've been recommending that our clients look at security platforms like the IBM Cloud Pak for security the IBM Cloud Pak for security is built on a security platform that allows interoperability across various security tools using open standards. So our customers have been responding extremely positively to this approach and look at it as a way to future-proof their investments and begin taking advantage of interoperability with, and, tools integration. >> How about where you see your business going with this because, you know, there's not a shortage of need or demand How are you guys flexing with the market? What's the strategy? Are you going to use technology enablement? You're going to more human driven. Brian, how do you see your business unfolding? >> Well, actually really good. We're doing very well. I mean, obviously we made the, the top the business partner for IBM in 2020. They have some significant growth and a lot of interest. I think we really attack the market in a, in a with a good strategy which was to help defragment the market if you will. There's a lot of point solutions and a lot of point vendors that various, you know, they they spent specialized in one piece of the whole problem. And what we've decided to do is find them the highest priority list, every CSO and CIO has a tick list. So that how that, you know, first thing we need we need a SIM, we need an EDR, we need a managed service. We need, what's the third solution that we're doing? So we, we need some new talent in-house. So we actually have added that as well. So we added a security staffing division to help that piece of it as well. So to give you an idea of the cybersecurity market size it was valued at 150 billion in 2019 and that is expected to grow to 300 billion by 2027. And Alacrinet is well-positioned to consolidate the many fragmented aspects of the security marketplace and offer our customers more integrated and easier to manage solutions. And we will continue to help our customers select the best suite of solutions to address all types of cybersecurity, cybersecurity threats. >> You know, it's it's such a really important point you're making because you know, the tools just have piled up in the tool shed. I call it like that. It's like, it's like you don't even know what's in there anymore. And then you've got to support them. Then the world's changed. You get cloud native, the service areas increasing and then the CSOs are also challenged. Do I, how many CLAWs do I build on? Do I optimize my development teams for AWS or Azure? I mean, now that's kind of a factor. So, you have all this tooling going on they're building their own stuff they're building their own core competency. And yet the CSO still needs to be like maintaining kind of like a relevance list. That's almost like a a stock market for the for the products. You're providing that it sounds like you're providing that kind of service as well, right? >> Yeah, well, we, we distill all of the products that are out there. There's thousands of cybersecurity products out there in the marketplace and we kind of do all that distillation for the customer. We find using, you know, using a combination of things. We use Forrester and Gartner and all the market analysts to shortlist our proposed solutions that we offer customers. But then we also use our experience. And so since 2013, we've been deploying these solutions across organizations and corporations across America and we've, we've gained a large body of experience and we can take that experience and knowledge to our customers and help them, you know, make make some good decisions. So they don't have to, you know, make them go through the pitfalls that many companies do when selecting these types of solutions. >> Well congratulations, you've got a great business and you know, that's just a basic search making things easier for the CSO, more so they can be safe and secure in their environment. It's funny, you know, cyber warfare, you know the private companies have to fight their own battles got to build their own armies. Certainly the government's not helping them. And then they're confused even with how to handle all this stuff. So they need, they need your service. I'm just curious as this continues to unfold and you start to see much more of a holistic view, what's the IBM angle in here? How, why are you such a big partner of theirs? Is it because their customers are working with you they're bringing you into business? Is it because you have an affinity towards some of their products? What's the connection with IBM? >> All of the above. (chuckles) So I think it probably started with our affinity to IBM QRadar product. And we have, we have a lot of expertise in that and that solution. So that's, that's where it started. And then I think IBM's leadership in this space has been remarkable, really. So like what's happening now with the IBM Cloud Pak for security you know, building up a security platform to allow all these point solutions to work together. That's the roadmap we want to put our customers on because we believe that's the that's the future for this, this, this marketplace. >> Yeah. And the vision of hybrid cloud having that underpinning be with Red Hat it's a Linux kernel, model of all things >> Yeah. Super NetEase. >> Locked in >> It's portable, multiple, you can run it on Azure. IBM Cloud, AWS. It's portable. I mean, yeah, all this openness, as you probably know cyber security is really a laggard in the security in the information technology space as far as adopting open standards. And IBM is I think leading that charge and you'll be able to have a force multiplier with the open standards in this space. >> Open innovation with open source is incredible. I mean, if you, if, if if open source can embrace a common platform and build that kind of control plane and openness to allow thriving companies to just build out then you have an entire hybrid distributed architecture. >> Yeah. Well, I think companies want to use the best in breed. So when we, when we show these solutions to customers they want the best in breed. They always say, I don't, when it comes to security they don't want second best. They want the best it's out there because they're securing their crown jewels. So that makes sense. So the problem with, you know having all these different disparate solutions that are all top in their category none of them talk to each other. So we need to address that problem because without that being solved, this is just going to be more it's going to compound the complexity of the problems we solve day to day. >> Awesome. Congratulations, Brian, great story. You know entrepreneur built a great business over the years. I think the product's amazing. I think that's exactly what the market needs and just shows you what the ecosystem is all about. This is the power of the ecosystem. You know, a thousand flowers are blooming. You got a great product. IBM is helping as well. Good partnership, network effects built in and and still a lot more to do. Congratulations. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much >> Brian Bouchard >> Made my impression. I appreciate that >> Thanks for coming on theCUBE Appreciate it. I'm John Furrier with IBM thinks 2021 virtual coverage. Thanks for watching. (outro music plays)

(upbeat music) >> (Narrator) From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of IBM Think 2021. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. Soon we'll be back in person in real life, but this year again it's a virtual conference. I'm John Furrier, your host of the cube for more cube coverage. We've got a great guest here, Debbie Vavangas, Global Garage Lead for IBM Services. Global Garage, great program. Debbie, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, we've covered the Garage a lot on theCUBE in the past, and a success, everyone loves the Garage. Things are born in the Garage, entrepreneurship, innovation, has been kind of categorically known for, kind of, the Garage startup. >> Absolutely. >> But also, it's become known for, really, agility, which has been a cloud phenomenon, DevOps. Now we're seeing dev SecOps as a big trend this year with hybrid cloud. So, I've got to ask you, how is Garage doing with the pandemic? Obviously, I can almost imagine people at home kind of disrupted from the office, but maybe more creativity, maybe more energy online? What's going on with the Garage? How has your transformation journey been with COVID? >> Well, John, COVID has been the leveler for us all, right? There isn't a person who hasn't had some challenge or some complexity to And that includes our clients. And I'm incredibly proud to be able to say that IBM Garage, because it is so digitally native, when the COVID pandemic has struck around the world every single one of our Garages was able to switch to being virtual without fail, without a single days lost productivity. And that's hugely beneficial to clients who are on an incredibly time-sensitive journey. And so, we've seen as a result of COVID actually there are a huge acceleration in Garages, for two reasons. So, number one, from a virtualization perspective, actually it's much easier when everybodies together in the same space. So everybody's together virtually in the same space, and we've seen, you know, acceleration in our velocity, in our collaboration, because everybody is really learning how to work in that same space. But two, because of the pandemic, because of the pressure on our client's needs to make decisions fast, know not guess, really be focused on their outcomes, not just doing stuff, the Garage really plays to that objective for them. And so we've seen a huge rise, you know, we've gone from in 2019 to just a few hundred garages, to finishing 2020 with over two and a half thousand garages. And it being embedded across services and with the goal of being the primary way our clients experience it. So COVID has been a big accelerator. >> Sorry, Debbie, can you repeat the numbers again? I just want to capture that, I missed that. >> Sure, sure. >> I did a double take on the numbers. (Debbie laughs) >> So then, we finished 2019 with just under 300 garages, and we finished 2020 with just over two and a half thousand. So, we've had a huge growth, and it isn't just the number of garages, it's the range of garages and what we're serving with our clients, and how we're collaborating with our clients, and the topics we're unpacking that has really broadened. >> Yeah, I mean I covered, and we've reported on the Garage on theCUBE and also on www.siliconangle.com in the past things and through your news coverage, but that's amazing growth. I got to believe the tailwind from COVID and just the energy around it has energized you. I want to get your thoughts on that because, you know, what we've reported on in the past has been about design thinking, human-centered design, all of those beautiful things that come with cloud-scale, right? You know, you're moving faster, you're innovating, and so that's been kind of there. But what you're getting at with this growth is, and with COVID has proven, and again, we've been pointing this out, you're seeing the pattern, it's clear. Companies are either retrenching, okay, which is refactoring, redesigning, doing those things to kind of get ready to come out of COVID with a growth strategy, and you're seeing other companies build net new innovations. So, they're building new capabilities, because COVID's shown them, kind of pulled back the curtain if you will on where the action is. So, this means there's two threads going on. You've got, "Okay, I've got to transform my business, and I got to refactor', or 'Hey, we got net new business models'. These are kind of two different things and not mutually exclusive. What's your comment on that? >> And I think that my comment on it is that is the sweet spot that Garage comes into its own, right? You mentioned lots of things in there. You talked about design thinking, and agility, and, you know, these other buzzwords that are used all the time, and Garage of course is synonymous with those. Of course, Garage uses the best design thinking, and AGILE practices, and all of those things that absolutely call to what we do. DevOps, even through down to DesignOps. You know, we have the whole range depending on what the client objective is. But, I think what is really happening now is that innovation being something separate is no longer how to accelerate your outcomes, and your business outcomes. Regardless of whether that is in refactoring and modernizing your existing estate, or diversifying, creating new ecosystems, new platforms, new offerings. Regardless of what that is, you can't do it separate to your core business. I mean, it's a well known fact, John, right? Like 75% of transformation programs fail to deliver an impact to the business performance, right? And in the same period of time there's been huge cuts in innovation funding, and that's because for the same reason, because they don't deliver the impact to the business performance. And that's why Garage is unique, because it is entirely focused on the outcome, right? We're using user research, through design thinking of course, using agile to deliver it at speed, and all of those other things. But, it's focused on value, on benefits realization and driving to your outcome. And we do that by putting that innovation at the heart of your enterprise in order to drive that transformation, rather than it being something separate. >> Debbie, I saw you gave a talk called 'Innovation is Dead'. Obviously, that's a provocative title, that's an attention-getter. Tell me what you mean by that. Because it seems to be a setup. >> I mean, if the innovation is dead, >> Of course. was it with a question mark? Were you, kind of, trying to highlight that innovation is transformation? >> So, the full title was 'Innovation is dead and transformation is pointless'. And, of course, it's meant to be an eye-catching title so people show up and listen to my pitch rather than somebody else's. But, the reality is I mean it most sincerely, it's back to that stat. 75% of these transformation programs fail to deliver the impact, and I speculate that that is for a few reasons. Because, the idea itself wasn't a good one, or wasn't at the right time. Because, you were unable to understand what the measure of good looked like, and therefore just being able to create that path. And, in order to transform a company, you must transform the individuals within a company. And so that way of working becomes incredibly holistic. And it's those three things, that I think amongst the whole myriad of others, that are the primary reasons why those programs fail. And what Garage does, is it breaks that. By putting innovation at the heart of your enterprise, and by using data-driven value orchestration, that means that we don't guess where the value to be gained is, we know. It's no longer chucking ideas at the wall to see what sticks, it's meaningful research. This is my favorite quote from my dear friend, Courtney Noll, who says, "It's not about searching for the innovation needle in the proverbial haystack, it's using your research in order to de-risk your investment, and drive your innovation to enable your outcomes." And so, if you do innovation without a view to how it's going to yield your business outcomes, I agree, I fundamentally agree that it's pointless. >> Yeah, exactly. And, you know, of course we're on the writing side, we love titles like, 'Innovation is dead, long live innovation'. So, it's classic, you know, to get your attention. >> Exactly, exactly. And of course, what I really mean is that innovation is a separate entity. >> Totally. >> There's no longer relevance for a company to make sure they achieve their business outcomes. >> Well, this is what I wanted to just double-click on that with you on is that you look at transformation. You guys are essentially saying transformation meets innovation with the Garage philosophy, if I get that right. >> Yep >> And it's interesting, and we've experienced this here with theCUBE, we're theCUBE virtual, we're not at IBM Think, there is no physical game day like some of us normally do. >> Well, as you can see, I'm at my house. (Debbie laughs) And so, I was talking to a CEO and I said, "Hey, you guys are doing really, really good. We had to pivot with the cube", and he goes, "You guys did a good pivot yourself". He goes, "No, John, we did not pivot. We actually put our business on hold because of the pandemic. We actually created a line extension, so, technically, we're going to bring that business back when COVID has gone and come back to real life, so it's technically not a pivot, we're not pivoting our business, we've created new functionality." Through the innovations that they were doing. So, this is kind of like, this is the real deal here. Share your thoughts on that. >> To me, it's about people get so focused on the output that they lose track of the outcome, right? And so, be really clear on what you're doing, and why. And the outcomes can be really broad, so instead of saying, "We're all going to implement a new ERP, or build a new mobile app". That's not an outcome, right? What we should be saying is, "What we're trying to achieve is a 10 percent growth in net promoter score in China, right? In this group." Or whatever it is we were trying to achieve, right? Or, "We want to make a 25% reduction in our operating cost base by simplifying our estate". Whatever those outcomes are, that's the starting point, and then driving that to use as the vehicle for what is the right innovation, what is going to deliver that value, and fast, right? Garage delivers three to five times faster than other models and at a reduced delivery cost, and so it's all about that speed. Speed of decision, speed of insight, speed of culture and training, speed of new skills, and speed to outcomes. >> Well, Debbie, you did a great job, love what you're doing, and Garage has got a great model. Congratulations on the growth, love this intersection, or transformation meets innovation because innovation is transformation, and vice versa, this interplay going on there. >> Exactly. >> I think COVID has proven that. Let me dig into a little bit more about the garage, what's going on. How many practitioners do you guys have there now at IBM? You've got growth, are you adding more people in? Obviously, Virtual First, COVID, is there still centers of design? Take us through what's going on at Garage. >> Certainly, so like, I think I mentioned it right up front. Our goal is to make IBM Garage the primary way our clients experience us. We've proven in that it delivers higher value to our clients and they get a really rich and broad set of outcomes. And so, in order for us to deliver on that promise we have to be enabled across IBM to deliver to it, right? So, over the last 18 months or so we've had a whole range of training programs in Enable, we've had a whole badging and certification program, we have all the skills, and the pathways, and the career pathways to find. But Garage is for everybody, right? And so, it isn't about creating a select group that can do this across IBM. This is about making all of services capable. So, in 2020 we trained over 28,000 people, in all the different skills that are needed, from selling, to execution, to QA, to user research, whatever it is. And this year we're launching our Garage Skills Academy, which will take that across all of services and make it easily available. So, you know, we've got hundreds of thousands. >> And talk about the footprint on the global side, because, again, not to bring up global, but global is what is in your title. >> Yep. >> Companies need to be global, because now with virtual workforces you're seeing much more tapped creativity and ability to execute from global teams. How does that impact you? >> Well, so it's global in two perspectives, right? So, number one, we have Garages all around the world, right? It isn't just the market of, you know, our most developed nations in Americas and Europe, it is everywhere, we see it in all emerging markets. From Latin America, through to all parts of eastern Europe, which are really beginning to come into their own. So, we see all these different Garages at different scales and opportunities. So, definitely global from that image. But, what virtualization has also enabled is truly global teams. Because, it's really easy to go, "Oh, I need one of those. Okay, I need a supply chain expert, and I need an AI expert, and I need somebody who's got industry experience in whatever it is." And you can quickly gather them around the virtual table, you know, faster than you can in a physical table. But, we still leverage the global communities with those physical. >> It's an expert network. You have an expert network there at IBM. >> We have a huge network, yeah. And both within IBM, and of course a growing network of ecosystem partners that we continue to work with. >> Well, Debbie, I'm really excited. Congratulations on the growth. I'm looking forward to partnering with you on your ecosystem as that develops. I can almost imagine you must be getting a lot of outside IBM practitioners and experts coming in to collaborate in a social construct. >> Absolutely. >> It's a great program, thanks for sharing. >> My pleasure, it's been great to be here, thank you. >> Okay, IBM's Global Garage Lead, Debbie Vavangas, who's here on theCUBE with IBM Services. A phenomenon, it's a social construct that's helping companies with digital transformation. Intersecting, with innovation. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante, and back in 2013, when it was becoming pretty obvious that the cloud was going to have a major impact on our industry, the IT industry, I wrote at the time that the way incumbents were going to have to compete was to really go into vertical markets and build ecosystems for their own clouds, and that's exactly what IBM did late last year, when it announced a major partnership with Bank of America in the financial services cloud, and guess what, Hillery Hunter is back in the house, she's the vice president and CTO of the IBM cloud, and an IBM fellow, Hillery, great to see you again, thanks for coming back on. >> Thanks so much for having me again, always a pleasure to be here. >> So we had an awesome conversation, I think we got into the FS cloud a little bit, but as I was saying, you guys announced last year, Bank of America, but let me start here. Why does the industry need a financial services cloud? >> Yeah, you know, it's key that we ground ourselves in that question of why a financial services cloud, and I think it really goes back to the sensitivity of the workloads and the data that that industry stewards. The financial services industry stewards the data of millions and millions of customers, and they are heavily regulated because of that, and they handle very high value transactions, and being able to take that context and translate that into what does it mean to do high value transactions, sensitive data, consumer data computing, also with all those benefits of elasticity and the value proposition of different deployment locations, is really what financial cloud is about. And those needs of that industry are a little bit different, the regulations are higher, the bar and data protection is higher, and the need to interlock across workload characteristics and the cloud deployment is a bit different. And so, we are bringing what we know about that industry to bear in the context also of cloud computing. >> Okay, so you're making some new announcements, there's some hard news here, but I want to know, if you're an executive, or business leader in the financial services industry, what's in it for me in these announcements? >> Yeah, what's in it for you is that we are moving into the next phase of financial services cloud in making the policy framework that has been developed through an enormous amount of work available to additional industry participants, and we're also moving into a phase of global expansion, and so being able to take this value proposition of an end to end considered secure and confine environment for financial services, out to more players in the industry, out to additional geographies and deployment locations, it's an exciting moment because everyone's really not looking just for a cloud, but they're looking for a choice of deployment locations, they're looking to move more workload to the cloud, and this is really about providing a cloud solution that more workload can move to, not just the first couple phases of analytics and things like that, but also moving into more transformation of the core of banking and the core of banking business, so it is about getting more workload to the cloud, getting that done faster, and getting it done at a net improved security and compliance posture. >> Got it, so I want to ask you about some learnings, now you're the double whammy of learnings here. When you announced the collaboration with B of A, obviously one of the top banks of the world, you've obviously made some progress since then, but the other part of that whammy was COVID. So what did you learn from the collaboration with B of A, and have you guys, how have you expanded your thinking BC, from before COVID, versus AC, after COVID? >> Yeah, you know, the initial motivation for this program was about having trust and transparency in public cloud, and having a public cloud suited also to sensitive and even core banking workloads. We have seen this conversation and the need for it and the urgency for it only pick up since COVID. A lot of things in the world kind of took a pause, but cloud computing really accelerated. We're seeing that businesses need to digitally transform their banking, so core banking transformation is a very hot topic. They need to deal with elasticity, we worked with banks during COVID that were having to suddenly stand up their national equivalent of the Payroll Protection Program. Banks that had to suddenly have three times the elasticity, because all of a sudden consumers were interacting with them purely digitally. And cloud can enable all of those kind of things, and so COVID has really accelerated the motivation toward banking in the cloud, and also toward core banking transformation, which is at the heart of setting a very high security bar in public cloud, to be able to also enable those kind of workloads. >> Yeah, so many changes as a result of COVID, I mean the volume of loans, like you said, everything was digital. I know a lot of older people that always still like to go into the bank, that like to see people, and they knew people and people knew them, well they had no choice but to go digital, so that's huge, if you didn't have a digital solution, and cloud is fundamental in that equation. But let's get into it a little bit more. We talked a little about this at IBM Think, but what are the key attributes that make the IBM financial services cloud suitable for financial services, is it the certifications, I wonder if you could add some color there. >> Yeah, so the key elements of the financial services cloud program are number one, a policy framework, which is a set of controls that are customized to the financial services industry, so this isn't about some existing standard, this is a customization of controls and security for the financial services industry, and that's a major element of what we're announcing right now. In addition to the policy framework is also the way that the different elements of the industry and of regulatory expertise are coming together, so this cloud, and these public cloud offerings, were co-developed and co-designed with IBM Promontory, with IBM Security Services that work with banks, with our anchor partner, and moving forward, we'll be advised by an advisory council of CSOs who have that day to day experience with security and with regulations. And so that is also a very unique context for not this being just a point in time with a policy framework, but being an ongoing initiative that will stay up to date, as security concerns and as regulatory concerns change. And the third aspect is a really unique set of technologies that make all of that possible, so you have to define how the cloud is going to be secure, and then you have to actually do it, and the unique capabilities that we have in IBM public cloud that have enabled this program include a number of things, but amongst them, the industry's highest standard for data protection, with our FIPS-140-2 Level 4 based key protect service, it includes capabilities that we'll be releasing through our acquisition of Spanugo around cloud security and compliance posture management, mapped back to that context of financial services. And so it's really three things, it's a policy framework custom and optimized for the financial services industry, the forward evolution of that through industry expertise, and participation of multi parties in that, and then core technologies that enable folks to accomplish that security posture through data protection, through cloud security posture management, et cetera. >> I forgot about the Promontory, you guys made that acquisition several years ago, that's a nice little feature of the FS cloud. But I want to ask, how hard is it to get these certifications? I mean it's obviously not a layup. Lot of work, lot of time, my reason of my question, is this a moat for you, as you guys start to scale? How difficult is it? >> Yeah, so we have been putting in the time and effort, and so that's why this is an exciting moment for us with the initial work product of this effort. And so our intention really is not for that to be a moat, but for us having traversed the moat, to now have a bridge there through the methodology that we built, through the control framework that we built, for others to now get across that moat. And so this is really about taking what is an extensive amount of work, and an extensive amount of expertise, IBM Promontory, you just mentioned, but they monitor over 70 regulatory obligations in over 20 jurisdictions globally, right? I mean this is a tremendous depth of expertise, and so having crossed the moat, and having built the bridge across it, this is where we can then help others to save time in this process of adopting public cloud for further workloads. >> You've mentioned workloads, you've talked about core financial workloads, but maybe give us a little insight on what type of workloads are the most suitable for the financial services cloud, because let's face it, most of the hardcore mission-critical workloads haven't moved, actually probably none of 'em have moved to the cloud, you kind of referenced that before. Ginni Rometty talks about that all the time. But what are the right workload strategic fits for your cloud? >> Yeah, you know you mentioned Ginni Rometty, and so I'll take a quick note there from some of the language that you'll hear her use, she talks about, there was chapter one of the cloud journey, and stuff that was on less sensitive data, analytics, some things on public information, were certainly done, also in finance and also in regulated industries in the cloud. And she talks about chapter two, chapter two being mission-critical workloads. And this program really is the definition of chapter two for the financial services industry. It is the enabling expertise, the enabling control set, the enabling security technologies, the enabling cloud services, for that chapter two, right, for that next layer of adoption of things that had been kept behind the firewall, had been kept in a private cloud context, can now be considered also for public cloud. And so easing that adoption, streamlining that process, et cetera, is really what we're looking to accomplish. >> I mean obviously IBM, huge presence in the banking community, is this really for just big banks? What about the ecosystem, what do you got in there for ISVs and SaaS providers? >> Yeah, you know, you asked me a question at the beginning here about COVID and what's happened, and I think, the transformation of ISV providers to become SaaS providers, the expansion of their capabilities being needed in payments and digital client experiences and such, also for regionals and second and third tier banking institutions and such, is as much of what is happening right now as anything else, amongst the first tiers, because there's just as much pressure for transformation and digital consumer experience, and other things like that, also in the regionals and second and third tiers. So part of our announcement is around the ecosystem of partners that we have now for the financial services cloud program. And that includes ISVs and SaaS providers that are servicing many different types of needs of institutions large and small, so we're seeing those that are servicing core banking, and payments, those that are servicing analytics use cases for this industry, and even HR function, just because of that concern about stewarding data well for these industries and those first tier banks, and so that transition to digital, that drive to infuse AI capabilities, the need to transform core banking, is something that's very much also happening within the ISV and SaaS providers, and we're thrilled with the wide variety of partner base that we're seeing develop there within our ecosystem for this program. >> I was talking to a CIO friend of mine several years ago, and he said to me, "You know, this idea of lifting and shifting, "it's fine, you get little cost savings, maybe, "but unless you change your operating model "and you drive an innovation agenda, "you really aren't going to get the type "of telephone number returns from cloud "that you would want or expect." So my question is around innovation, and we've said many times in theCUBE that the new innovation cocktail, it's not Moore's law anymore, it's the combination of data applying machine intelligence and then the cloud, and the reason why the cloud is important is scale, okay, there's maybe a little bit of cost as well, but it's also innovation. It's the ability to attract people into an ecosystem, and that resonates with line of business. If your cloud is just about making IT's life better, well that's nice, but what's in this announcement and in this initiative for the line of business? >> Yeah, it is all about the workloads. I always say that to me the cloud journey is about, number one your platform, which is the thing onto which you modernize. It is what are you going to get out of moving to containers, what are you going to get out of moving to microservices, how does that help all of those cloud metrics that you mentioned? But number two, it's about the workload, right, which workloads are we talking about, how will they deliver, how will those workloads be able to because of cloud deliver not just TCO but improvement in customer experience, how will those workloads be able to meet elasticity, resiliency, cybersecurity concerns, changes in the way the workforce is working these days, et cetera. And from the line of business perspective, there is a tremendous need to consume, for example, fintech-based innovation. But a lot of folks have struggled to move past POCs because of concerns about security and compliance, for those deployment scenarios, and so being able to bring the ISVs and SaaS providers, and then also fintechs into an ecosystem with a prescriptive and proactive security and compliance context is really what we're all about here. And that will enable a flourishing of adoption of innovation. >> You know, I always love to talk about the competition on these episodes. But I want to ask differentiation, how different is this, can I just go to any cloud supplier and get this, will I eventually be able to, what's IBM's differentiation, Hillery? >> Yeah, so you want to think of it that, in financial services, you are concerned, and you have to be concerned about everything. You have to be concerned about things into the details of the cloud itself, you have to be concerned about things that are related to the behavior and the permissions of your developers in that environment. Financial services cloud really has to be an end to end, soup to nuts conversation, and so this is a program of our public cloud, where end to end, we can stand behind and provide trust and resiliency and this policy framework, end to end within an environment that can be trusted for mission-critical workload. And so when we look at differentiation, our investments are in bringing together IBM's expertise all the way going back to regulations and security consulting that we've been doing for decades in this industry, applying that to that cloud context, taking capabilities that are developed all the way down into the transistors, investments we've made even into the silicon around how cryptography is done, bringing that into the cloud context. And so having brought those things together into our public cloud context, that's how we're able to solution this in a different way, because it really is end to end about the expertise, from all of that regulatory advising, that security context, all the way down into the silicon and the transistors, and I think that's a very unique value proposition, as a cloud provider, it's a tremendous opportunity for us to bring together those pieces. And to continue to be a trusted partner to these companies that we have long been a trusted partner of. >> Now of course you guys have a relationship with VMware, you were the first, actually, to announce a VMware cloud relationship. And so let's say, okay, I got some VMware workloads, I move 'em into your FS cloud. Make sure that I've got the security and compliance checked. Six months down the road, so I've done that sort of first step, what's next for me, is that the end, or are there other things on my journey? >> Yeah, so absolutely, I mean VMware is part of what we are solution financial services clients to, but also cloud-native, and OpenShift, containerization, that modernization journey, is an ongoing journey for everyone, and so to your point of what's next, we're seeing a continual conversation of balancing lift and shift and modernization across workloads, and there are different reasons at different points in time, for people to consider that. I think the key is that they trust where they are taking that data, and whatever the form is that the workload goes, it needs to be in the context of that trust around the data in a security context, and so we're absolutely seeing everything, honestly, from financial services institutions looking to engage with us, also in our new research innovation lab, where we're engaging directly with financial services clients that are trying to work through this differentiation, is it virtualization, is it containerization, is it even serverless? What is the right and most effective balance of how workloads are programmed and run for the next generation of banking. >> You know, Hillery, I've been doing a lot of interviews in the last decade, and it's been interesting to see the ascendancy of cloud, of course, but also the change in perception, particularly in financial services, in the early days of cloud, cloud was an evil word. The C that should not be named. And so I want to understand if I'm, and of course COVID has also changed the perception, because if you weren't digital and you didn't have cloud, you couldn't really transact businesses as well, you didn't have that business resiliency. So, what if I'm a financial services person now, okay, I'm through the knothole, I want to get started, where do I start? >> Yeah, well call us first, but past that, I think that the conversations, the first conversations that we're having with our clients are, number one, do you have an architecture? So is cloud not just a place, like I like to say, but is cloud a plan, is there an architectural plan to enable you to have consistency, for example, in your developer experience between your private cloud environment and your public cloud environment? Architecturally are there those foundational choices around common services about being able to deploy capabilities in one location, and develop them in another, et cetera. All those value propositions of what we have been creating around OpenShift and Cloud Paks in our public cloud, and consistency across different environments and such, I think that's the first thing to start with is architecting a cloud, not accidental usage of multiple environments, but architecting use of multiple environments. And then I think the second conversation is to make a security and compliance plan that is going to be robust enough to withstand even the intense scrutiny of a regulated industry CCO and risk team, and so that's the other foundational conversation that we're having with our clients, and helping them with, so we can provide services and reference architectures, and all that other kind of thing, to enable them to stabilize planning on both fronts, both architecturally for what cloud means in its entirety, not just a cloud, but in its entirety, all clouds, multicloud, hybrid cloud, et cetera. And then secondly, then, a comprehensive security plan for that public cloud choice, and that's what we're really locking down with this policy framework, is bringing standardization on that for public cloud. >> Well, lot of innovation for the financial services community, which is again your wheelhouse. I wrote a piece right around Think that IBM's future rests on its innovation agenda, and I'm glad you brought up the notion of private, public, and then the whole hybrid thing, because I see OpenShift as a key, and RedHat as a key enabler of that across whether it's cloud, on-prem, edge, across multiple clouds. That's an ambitious agenda, as somebody who's responsible for cloud. That is something that is real innovation, and really differentiable I think, in the marketplace, and probably pretty expensive to build out across all those different platforms. >> Yeah, it is, but I think on the word innovation, my mind, as an IBMer, goes to the IBM research division. Thousands of researchers globally, and they've very much been a part of this journey with us. The journey with us on containerization, the journey on workload modernization from monolith to microservices, the journey of our public cloud, and now also very much a part of our work in financial services, so our research division is this incredible gift and asset that we have, that is working with us also on our cloud security and compliance posture management, that security and compliance control center that we're talking about in this announcement, et cetera, and so them being a part of this innovation stream for us is a really exciting part, again, of bringing together all these different pieces that IBM has to offer in this space to make it all stack up, to be a cloud for financial services. >> I got a couple of little housekeeping items before we close here. This is announced for the US first, right? What about other regions, first of all, is that correct, and what about other regions? >> That's correct, and we are also announcing additional participation of global banking partners as well in this announcement. And so this is also again our initial public statement of our expansion past the US. >> Last question, so just give us a glimpse of the future, where do you want to be in a few years, thinking about let's say three years down the road, what's that outcome look like? >> Yeah, you know I think that three years from now, we would love to see that people are able to make a decision, going back to your question about the line of business owners, make a decision about what they're trying to accomplish with a workload, and not be held back by security and compliance concerns in terms of putting that workload where it needs to be, where it will be most efficient, and where it can be embraced by a set of cloud capabilities that enable it to move in a competitive pace forward, infusing AI into everything that is done. Leveraging the latest in technologies, and serverless computing and all these other kind of things that can facilitate a line of business delivering more value so that cloud really continues, but also realizes its promises in that chapter two version of the story, also for regulated industries and also for their mission-critical workloads. >> Well Hillery, good luck with this, I mean congratulations on the progress that you've made, really since you guys announced this late last year, and really excited to see this start to take off, and you're a great guest, love having you on, thank you so much. >> Thanks so much for having me, pleasure talking to you as always. >> All right, cheers. And thank you everybody for watching, this is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (calm music)

(bright music) >> Okay, we're back in theCUBE. We said we were signing off for the night, but during the hallway track, we ran into old friend Stu Miniman who was the Director of Market Insights at Red Hat. Stu, friend of theCUBE done the thousands of CUBE interviews. >> Dave, it's great to be here. Thanks for pulling me on, you and I hosted Red Hat Summit before. It's great to see Paul here. I was actually, I was talking to some of the Red Hatters walking around Boston. It's great to have an event here. Boston's got strong presence and I understand, I think was either first or second year, they had it over... What's the building they're tearing down right down the road here. Was that the World Trade Center? I think that's where they actually held it, the first time they were here. We hosted theCUBE >> So they moved up. >> at the Hines Convention Center. We did theCUBE for summit at the BCEC next door. And of course, with the pandemic being what it was, we're a little smaller, nice intimate event here. It's great to be able to room the hall, see a whole bunch of people and lots watching online. >> It's great, it's around the same size as those, remember those Vertica Big Data events that we used to have here. And I like that you were commenting out at the theater and the around this morning for the keynotes, that was good. And the keynotes being compressed, I think, is real value for the attendees, you know? 'Cause people come to these events, they want to see each other, you know? They want to... It's like the band getting back together. And so when you're stuck in the keynote room, it's like, "Oh, it's okay, it's time to go." >> I don't know that any of us used to sitting at home where I could just click to another tab or pause it or run for, do something for the family, or a quick bio break. It's the three-hour keynote I hope has been retired. >> But it's an interesting point though, that the virtual event really is driving the physical and this, the way Red Hat marketed this event was very much around the virtual attendee. Physical was almost an afterthought, so. >> Right, this is an invite only for in-person. So you're absolutely right. It's optimizing the things that are being streamed, the online audience is the big audience. And we just happy to be in here to clap and do some things see around what you're doing. >> Wonderful see that becoming the norm. >> I think like virtual Stu, you know this well when virtual first came in, nobody had a clue with what they were doing. It was really hard. They tried different things, they tried to take the physical and just jam it into the virtual. That didn't work, they tried doing fun things. They would bring in a famous person or a comedian. And that kind of worked, I guess, but everybody showed up for that and then left. And I think they're trying to figure it out what this hybrid thing is. I've seen it both ways. I've seen situations like this, where they're really sensitive to the virtual. I've seen others where that's the FOMO of the physical, people want physical. So, yeah, I think it depends. I mean, reinvent last year was heavy physical. >> Yeah, with 15,000 people there. >> Pretty long keynotes, you know? So maybe Amazon can get away with it, but I think most companies aren't going to be able to. So what is the market telling you? What are these insights? >> So Dave just talking about Amazon, obviously, the world I live in cloud and that discussion of cloud, the journey that customers are going on is where we're spending a lot of the discussions. So, it was great to hear in the keynote, talked about our deep partnerships with the cloud providers and what we're doing to help people with, you like to call it super cloud, some call it hybrid, or multi-cloud... >> New name. (crosstalk) Meta-Cloud, come on. >> All right, you know if Che's my executive, so it's wonderful. >> Love it. >> But we'll see, if I could put on my VR Goggles and that will help me move things. But I love like the partnership announcement with General Motors today because not every company has the needs of software driven electric vehicles all over the place. But the technology that we build for them actually has ramifications everywhere. We've working to take Kubernetes and make it smaller over time. So things that we do at the edge benefit the cloud, benefit what we do in the data center, it's that advancement of science and technology just lifts all boats. >> So what's your take on all this? The EV and software on wheels. I mean, Tesla obviously has a huge lead. It's kind of like the Amazon of vehicles, right? It's sort of inspired a whole new wave of innovation. Now you've got every automobile manufacturer kind of go and after. That is the future of vehicles is something you followed or something you have an opinion on Stu? >> Absolutely. It's driving innovation in some ways, the way the DOS drove innovation on the desktop, if you remember the 64K DOS limit, for years, that was... The software developers came up with some amazing ways to work within that 64K limit. Then when it was gone, we got bloatware, but it actually does enforce a level of discipline on you to try to figure out how to make software run better, run more efficiently. And that has upstream impacts on the enterprise products. >> Well, right. So following your analogy, you talk about the enablement to the desktop, Linux was a huge influence on allowing the individual person to write code and write software, and what's happening in the EV, it's software platform. All of these innovations that we're seeing across industries, it's how is software transforming things. We go back to the mark end reasons, software's eating the world, open source is the way that software is developed. Who's at the intersection of all those? We think we have a nice part to play in that. I loved tha- Dave, I don't know if you caught at the end of the keynote, Matt Hicks basically said, "Our mission isn't just to write enterprise software. "Our mission is based off of open source because open source unlocks innovation for the world." And that's one of the things that drew me to Red Hat, it's not just tech in good places, but allowing underrepresented, different countries to participate in what's happening with software. And we can all move that ball forward. >> Well, can we declare victory for open source because it's not just open source products, but everything that's developed today, whether proprietary or open has open source in it. >> Paul, I agree. Open source is the development model period, today. Are there some places that there's proprietary? Absolutely. But I had a discussion with Deepak Singh who's been on theCUBE many times. He said like, our default is, we start with open source code. I mean, even Amazon when you start talking about that. >> I said this, the $70 billion business on open source. >> Exactly. >> Necessarily give it back, but that say, Hey, this is... All's fair in tech and more. >> It is interesting how the managed service model has sort of rescued open source, open source companies, that were trying to do the Red Hat model. No one's ever really successfully duplicated the Red Hat model. A lot of companies were floundering and failing. And then the managed service option came along. And so now they're all cloud service providers. >> So the only thing I'd say is that there are some other peers we have in the industry that are built off open source they're doing okay. The recent example, GitLab and Hashicorp, both went public. Hashi is doing some managed services, but it's not the majority of their product. Look at a company like Mongo, they've heavily pivoted toward the managed service. It is where we see the largest growth in our area. The products that we have again with Amazon, with Microsoft, huge growth, lots of interest. It's one of the things I spend most of my time talking on. >> I think Databricks is another interesting example 'cause Cloudera was the now company and they had the sort of open core, and then they had the proprietary piece, and they've obviously didn't work. Databricks when they developed Spark out of Berkeley, everybody thought they were going to do kind of a similar model. Instead, they went for all in managed services. And it's really worked well, I think they were ahead of that curve and you're seeing it now is it's what customers want. >> Well, I mean, Dave, you cover the database market pretty heavily. How many different open source database options are there today? And that's one of the things we're solving. When you look at what is Red Hat doing in the cloud? Okay, I've got lots of databases. Well, we have something called, it's Red Hat Open Database Access, which is from a developer, I don't want to have to think about, I've got six different databases, which one, where's the repository? How does all that happen? We give that consistency, it's tied into OpenShift, so it can help abstract some of those pieces. we've got same Kafka streaming and we've got APIs. So it's frameworks and enablers to help bridge that gap between the complexity that's out there, in the cloud and for the developer tool chain. >> That's really important role you guys play though because you had this proliferation, you mentioned Mongo. So many others, Presto and Starbursts, et cetera, so many other open source options out there now. And companies, developers want to work with multiple databases within the same application. And you have a role in making that easy. >> Yeah, so and that is, if you talk about the question I get all the time is, what's next for Kubernetes? Dave, you and I did a preview for KubeCon and it's automation and simplicity that we need to be. It's not enough to just say, "Hey, we've got APIs." It's like Dave, we used to say, "We've got standards? Great." Everybody's implementation was a little bit different. So we have API Sprawl today. So it's building that ecosystem. You've been talking to a number of our partners. We are very active in the community and trying to do things that can lift up the community, help the developers, help that cloud native ecosystem, help our customers move faster. >> Yeah API's better than scripts, but they got to be managed, right? So, and that's really what you guys are doing that's different. You're not trying to own everything, right? It's sort of antithetical to how billions and trillions are made in the IT industry. >> I remember a few years ago we talked here, and you look at the size that Red Hat is. And the question is, could Red Hat have monetized more if the model was a little different? It's like, well maybe, but that's not the why. I love that they actually had Simon Sinek come in and work with Red Hat and that open, unlocks the world. Like that's the core, it's the why. When I join, they're like, here's a book of Red Hat, you can get it online and that why of what we do, so we never have to think of how do we get there. We did an acquisition in the security space a year ago, StackRox, took us a year, it's open source. Stackrox.io, it's community driven, open source project there because we could have said, "Oh, well, yeah, it's kind of open source and there's pieces that are open source, but we want it to be fully open source." You just talked to Gunnar about how he's RHEL nine, based off CentOS stream, and now developing out in the open with that model, so. >> Well, you were always a big fan of Whitehurst culture book, right? It makes a difference. >> The open organization and right, Red Hat? That culture is special. It's definitely interesting. So first of all, most companies are built with the hierarchy in mind. Had a friend of mine that when he joined Red Hat, he's like, I don't understand, it's almost like you have like lots of individual contractors, all doing their things 'cause Red Hat works on thousands of projects. But I remember talking to Rackspace years ago when OpenStack was a thing and they're like, "How do you figure out what to work on?" "Oh, well we hired great people and they work on what's important to them." And I'm like, "That doesn't sound like a business." And he is like, "Well, we struggle sometimes to that balance." Red Hat has found that balance because we work on a lot of different projects and there are people inside Red Hat that are, you know, they care more about the project than they do the business, but there's the overall view as to where we participate and where we productize because we're not creating IP because it's all an open source. So it's the monetizations, the relationships we have our customers, the ecosystems that we build. And so that is special. And I'll tell you that my line has been Red Hat on the inside is even more Red Hat. The debates and the discussions are brutal. I mean, technical people tearing things apart, questioning things and you can't be thin skinned. And the other thing is, what's great is new people. I've talked to so many people that started at Red Hat as interns and will stay for seven, eight years. And they come there and they have as much of a seat at the table, and when I talk to new people, your job, is if you don't understand something or you think we might be able to do it differently, you better speak up because we want your opinion and we'll take that, everybody takes that into consideration. It's not like, does the decision go all the way up to this executive? And it's like, no, it's done more at the team. >> The cultural contrast between that and your parent, IBM, couldn't be more dramatic. And we talked earlier with Paul Cormier about has IBM really walked the walk when it comes to leaving Red Hat alone. Naturally he said, "Yes." Well what's your perspective. >> Yeah, are there some big blue people across the street or something I heard that did this event, but look, do we interact with IBM? Of course. One of the reasons that IBM and IBM Services, both products and services should be able to help get us breadth in the marketplace. There are times that we go arm and arm into customer meetings and there are times that customers tell us, "I like Red Hat, I don't like IBM." And there's other ones that have been like, "Well, I'm a long time IBM, I'm not sure about Red Hat." And we have to be able to meet all of those customers where they are. But from my standpoint, I've got a Red Hat badge, I've got a Red Hat email, I've got Red Hat benefits. So we are fiercely independent. And you know, Paul, we've done blogs and there's lots of articles been written is, Red Hat will stay Red Hat. I didn't happen to catch Arvin I know was on CNBC today and talking at their event, but I'm sure Red Hat got mentioned, but... >> Well, he talks about Red Hat all time. >> But in his call he's talking backwards. >> It's interesting that he's not here, greeting this audience, right? It's again, almost by design, right? >> But maybe that's supposed to be... >> Hundreds of yards away. >> And one of the questions being in the cloud group is I'm not out pitching IBM Cloud, you know? If a customer comes to me and asks about, we have a deep partnership and IBM will be happy to tell you about our integrations, as opposed to, I'm happy to go into a deep discussion of what we're doing with Google, Amazon, and Microsoft. So that's how we do it. It's very different Dave, from you and I watch really closely the VMware-EMC, VMware-Dell, and how that relationship. This one is different. We are owned by IBM, but we mostly, it does IBM fund initiatives and have certain strategic things that are done, absolutely. But we maintain Red Hat. >> But there are similarities. I mean, VMware crowd didn't want to talk about EMC, but they had to, they were kind of forced to. Whereas, you're not being forced to. >> And then once Dell came in there, it was joint product development. >> I always thought a spin in. Would've been the more effective, of course, Michael Dell and Egon wouldn't have gotten their $40 billion out. But I think a spin in was more natural based on where they were going. And it would've been, I think, a more dominant position in the marketplace. They would've had more software, but again, financially it wouldn't have made as much sense, but that whole dynamic is different. I mean, but people said they were going to look at VMware as a model and it's been largely different because remember, VMware of course was a separate company, now is a fully separate company. Red Hat was integrated, we thought, okay, are they going to get blue washed? We're watching and watching, and watching, you had said, well, if the Red Hat culture isn't permeating IBM, then it's a failure. And I don't know if that's happening, but it's definitely... >> I think a long time for that. >> It's definitely been preserved. >> I mean, Dave, I know I read one article at the beginning of the year is, can Arvin make IBM, Microsoft Junior? Follow the same turnaround that Satya Nadella drove over there. IBM I think making some progress, I mean, I read and watch what you and the team are all writing about it. And I'll withhold judgment on IBM. Obviously, there's certain financial things that we'd love to see IBM succeed. We worry about our business. We do our thing and IBM shares our results and they've been solid, so. >> Microsoft had such massive cash flow that even bomber couldn't screw it up. Well, I mean, this is true, right? I mean, you think about how were relevant Microsoft was in the conversation during his tenure and yet they never got really... They maintained a position so that when the Nadella came in, they were able to reascend and now are becoming that dominant player. I mean, IBM just doesn't have that cash flow and that luxury, but I mean, if he pulls it off, he'll be the CEO of the decade. >> You mentioned partners earlier, big concern when the acquisition was first announced, was that the Dells and the HP's and the such wouldn't want to work with Red Hat anymore, you've sort of been here through that transition. Is that an issue? >> Not that I've seen, no. I mean, the hardware suppliers, the ISVs, the GSIs are all very important. It was great to see, I think you had Accenture on theCUBE today, obviously very important partner as we go to the cloud. IBM's another important partner, not only for IBM Cloud, but IBM Services, deep partnership with Azure and AWS. So those partners and from a technology standpoint, the cloud native ecosystem, we talked about, it's not just a Red Hat product. I constantly have to talk about, look, we have a lot of pieces, but your developers are going to have other tools that they're going to use and the security space. There is no such thing as a silver bullet. So I've been having some great conversations here already this week with some of our partners that are helping us to round out that whole solution, help our customers because it has to be, it's an ecosystem. And we're one of the drivers to help that move forward. >> Well, I mean, we were at Dell Tech World last week, and there's a lot of talk about DevSecOps and DevOps and Dell being more developer friendly. Obviously they got a long way to go, but you can't have that take that posture and not have a relationship with Red Hat. If all you got is Pivotal and VMware, and Tansu >> I was thrilled to hear the OpenShift mention in the keynote when they talked about what they were doing. >> How could you not, how could you have any credibility if you're just like, Oh, Pivotal, Pivotal, Pivotal, Tansu, Tansu. Tansu is doing its thing. And they smart strategy. >> VMware is also a partner of ours, but that we would hope that with VMware being independent, that does open the door for us to do more with them. >> Yeah, because you guys have had a weird relationship with them, under ownership of EMC and then Dell, right? And then the whole IBM thing. But it's just a different world now. Ecosystems are forming and reforming, and Dell's building out its own cloud and it's got to have... Look at Amazon, I wrote about this. I said, "Can you envision the day where Dell actually offers competitive products in its suite, in its service offering?" I mean, it's hard to see, they're not there yet. They're not even close. And they have this high say/do ratio, or really it's a low say/do, they say high say/do, but look at what they did with Nutanix. You look over- (chuckles) would tell if it's the Cisco relationship. So it's got to get better at that. And it will, I really do believe. That's new thinking and same thing with HPE. And, I don't know about Lenovo that not as much of an ecosystem play, but certainly Dell and HPE. >> Absolutely. Michael Dell would always love to poke at HPE and HP really went very far down the path of their own products. They went away from their services organization that used to be more like IBM, that would offer lots of different offerings and very much, it was HP Invent. Well, if we didn't invent it, you're not getting it from us. So Dell, we'll see, as you said, the ecosystems are definitely forming, converging and going in lots of different directions. >> But your position is, Hey, we're here, we're here to help. >> Yeah, we're here. We have customers, one of the best proof points I have is the solution that we have with Amazon. Amazon doesn't do the engineering work to make us a native offering if they didn't have the customer demand because Amazon's driven off of data. So they came to us, they worked with us. It's a lot of work to be able to make that happen, but you want to make it frictionless for customers so that they can adopt that. That's a long path. >> All right, so evening event, there's a customer event this evening upstairs in the lobby. Microsoft is having a little shin dig, and then serves a lot of customer dinners going on. So Stu, we'll see you out there tonight. >> All right, thanks you. >> Were watching a brewing somewhere. >> Keynotes tomorrow, a lot of good sessions and enablement, and yeah, it's great to be in person to be able to bump some people, meet some people and, Hey, I'm still a year and a half in still meeting a lot of my peers in person for the first time. >> Yeah, and that's kind of weird, isn't it? Imagine. And then we kick off tomorrow at 10:00 AM. Actually, Stephanie Chiras is coming on. There she is in the background. She's always a great guest and maybe do a little kickoff and have some fun tomorrow. So this is Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman, Paul Gillin, who's my co-host. You're watching theCUBEs coverage of Red Hat Summit 2022. We'll see you tomorrow. (bright music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE! With digital coverage of IBM Think 2021. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Mark Foster, Senior Vice President of IBM Services and IBM's Global Business Services. It's a global landscape, the world's changing, it's going hybrid. Mark, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Great to see you, John, good to be with you. >> You know, the theme this year is all about hybrid cloud. Global transformation is the innovation at scale. That's the discussion, that's the way I see it. The question I have for you to start right away is how has the last year in particular changed businesses as they're leveraging the tech? You know, they want to solve their critical problems and transform themselves, the pandemic has forced them to look at this. How has this last year changed the way businesses are leveraging tech? >> Well, there's definitely been an acceleration in the digital transformations across all of our clients around the world. They have been compelled to leverage technology to connect with their customers in these unique times. They've been forced to use technology tools to allow their teams to connect and operate around the world. And all of this has reinforced also the opportunity to leverage things like extreme automation, AI, and the leverage of things like the cloud to deal with the virtual and more remote nature of working around the world. >> How much of the change last year do you think's going to to be temporary or long lasting. What's not going to be given up? (laughs) What are people realizing? Is it temporary or is it long lasting? What's your take? >> Well, I think we have to recognize that we are moving into a genuinely hybrid world, well, hybrid insofar as I think that some of the lessons we've learned over this past period are going to durably change the way we work, but we're also going to have a certain amount of back to the future, as well, as we try and put back some of the aspects of physical interaction, the ways of actually bringing empathy, creativity together through being together in groups. But I do think also we're going to take a number of these areas of acceleration and they're going to be extrapolated out to genuinely lead to an acceleration of what might've taken place over over five years taking place over a lot shorter period. >> You know, I think that group dynamic is really a big deal. I think that's going to be something that, to me, jumps out at this transformation. People want to work together. They want to be part of something, totally right on. With that, I got to ask you, now that we have this kind of new virtual experience, we're remote, we're not in person, wish we were, but even when we are in personal, it'll still be hybrid virtual experience events means we're still going to act as a group. This kind of brings up the idea of a virtual enterprise. You kind of mentioned that. What you mean and how do you define a virtual enterprise? >> Well, I think a virtual enterprise for us is an extension of the thought process we've had before around how technology is transforming the way all businesses operate. If you do apply, you know, the power of technology to build new business platforms and think about new ways of applying technology to transform your business processes, you think about the way that all of us are reinventing the relationship between people and technology in our organizations, the virtual enterprise just takes that to the next level. It recognizes that if you are able to take a location out of the equation, if you're able to leverage ecosystems more completely through connecting through networks of organizations, all of this extends the vision that we have of how the cognitive enterprise of the past comes to life. And we create this even more connected, even more expansive vision of business which is of course able to leverage technology within its own four walls. It's able to leverage it powerfully with its business partners. But then finally, it's about how you create the platforms upon which you create new ecosystems for competition and new markets that can be created in that way. >> That's really compelling insight right there. I think that's right on the money. I have to ask you, what do you think the differentiating characteristics are for this enterprise? What's going to be the differentiator, what's going to make it work? What do you need- >> I think what's going to make it work first of all, I think we think there's going to be a sort of a golden thread of what you might call an extended intelligent workflow that runs through the enterprise and its partners. And the power of that sort of thread of core processes and core differentiation to be brought to life by the mutual leverage of technology through partnerships is going to be a hugely powerful. So therefore all the partners' ability to embrace those technologies to embrace the vision for how those workflows come together is going to be very important. I think it's going to be very important that actually the ecosystem and its success becomes the strategy of the of the participants as opposed to being something that they happened to be going along with. So it becomes the strategy of the organization. And I think finally, there's a huge amount around here around how you leverage and think about the power of your people, the culture that you create to be inclusive and expansive in terms of applying new talent, building new talent, to allow this virtual enterprise to thrive. >> That's actually brilliant. You know, ecosystem is part of it, not an afterthought or a marketing gimmick. It's got to be part of it, that's awesome. Let's bring that to the next level. The role of the ecosystems are taking a bigger role for you, as you said, what specifically can you point to that has a change that's made in the ecosystem that you can point to, says that's an impactful change, this is a table stake, this is a guaranteed continuing practice. Can you give an example? >> Well, I think what we can see around the world in terms of how the world has solved for something like you're getting vaccines created and distributed on the back of the COVID crisis, that's taken an ecosystem coming together to work in completely different ways in an accelerated way to deliver on very big outcomes. Well, we can also see, you know, clients who are developing their strategies to try and connect the dots across different players to position their business as a platform upon which others bring their parts, their organizations to bear. And I think that we can see therefore that this idea of ecosystems is being used to solve really big problems, but it's also potentially a model that can be used to actually define really big market opportunities as well. And when you can connect the dots and you can expand your market footprint by combining with other key players at scale and also create a way that smaller organizations can come and sit upon the platforms that you create and leverage those capabilities, then the opportunity to actually use that to really expand your horizons of where your business can go are very real. >> You know, that's a really interesting, mind blowing concept. You think about the idea of a network effect or ecosystems, and integration, and collective intelligence. These are paradigms that have been around for awhile, at least past 10 years. It was the Holy Grail, let's hope we get to that. It seems like that's happening right now. And I think more than ever, it can be harnessed. And so I think you starting to see that with the hybrid cloud and it's not just tech, it's societal impact, it's impacting people, their jobs, and their ability to contribute and work. So this is a huge concept. So really excited this conversation. I guess the next question I have for you, Mark, is how do you bring clients this value? How do they create value? And how do they take this and transform their business with it? What's the playbook? >> Well, I think for clients, the first thing for them to recognize is to understand that this is the world that they are operating in. And I think that from a playbook point of view, the first thing I would say is you do need to think about which ecosystems do I want to play in? How do I think I could win by being a part of, or shaping an ecosystem? I think, secondly, there's the opportunity to think about how you use all the data that's out there in the world to be a stronger source of innovation across an ecosystem, to think about how your products and services could be modernized to succeed in that world. How you build those innovations into this new vision of an extended workflow or process view that binds the players of your ecosystem together. And you're really thinking about how to reinvent the way work gets done. Apply automation, apply AI, apply blockchain, apply IoT to transform those workflows is a massive, massive opportunity. To recognize that actually by the power of that, you're able to have significantly more impact than before. So make sure you're setting your ambitions high enough around the impact the change you're trying to drive can bring, and then I think also just making sure you're thinking all the time about what this means for the culture of your organizations, the workforce you want to connect with, how you want to access talent and bring it to bear across this new extended value chain? You know, who do you need to employ, versus who do you need to contract with, versus who do you need to make sure are participating in the processes that you're driving? And then finally, how do you make sure that you have the infrastructure, and the systems, and the applications that are open enough to allow you to really bring this vision to life? So the underlying hybrid cloud, hybrid architectures that you have and the networks you have that bind you together become fundamental. >> That's awesome. Great insight there. I guess my final question is how has your personal outlook changed in the past year when everyone is working from home? And now we're starting to see the pandemic, you know, light at the end of the tunnel from this pandemic, once we emerge out of it, people want to have a growth strategy, want to get back to real life. Any words of advice for our viewers on your personal outlook and as we come out of the pandemic and they can participate- >> Well, I think the first thing to recognize is we all have a collective wish around the world, probably for the first time for a long time, I think pretty much most people in humanity are sharing a shared view about a desire to have a more expansive horizon than the one that's outside the window of their kitchen, which I'm looking out of right now, and being able to get out and about, and engage in some more aspects that of normal life. And I do think that we're all looking forward to that opportunity. I think we're going to have to recognize that we're probably all going to also adapt our behaviors, going forward, but there's almost an enormous amount of exciting things that we've all got pent up we want to go and do, and I think, you know, the critical thing for us all is to hopefully approach that world safely. But at the same time, recognize that there is hope, we are working our way through this as a world. And as long as we try and make sure we do that in a way that is actually equitable, and that we do make sure that all boats are lifted as we return here, then I think that's a really positive view of how the future will be for all of us. So we should all look forward to that. >> Mark, it's great to have you on theCUBE. I love the insight, I love your message. It's right on, it's relevant, and super cool because that's what people want. They want to collaborate and be with people. I guess with the final minute we have left, share an observation from the past year and a half. Something that surprised you that happened in the industry, something that you didn't expect or something that you did expect that's positive that we can look to and say, "That's a good thing, we want to double down on that." >> Well, I think the positive thing that I think we can double down on is that we have all actually learned to be perhaps more open to interacting with people who we wouldn't otherwise have interacted with through this medium, that actually I have found that I've broadened my network of people that I've been engaging with through the fact that it has been actually relatively easy to connect even at high levels with people, but all the people have been able to connect in a strange way with a bigger group of connections than you would have done through the normal physical constraints of flying somewhere, seeing someone, meeting someone, and how you use your time to do that. So I would say one of the positive things is actually how open people have been to start new relationships over this virtual medium. Of course, the trick is going to be, can we build on those virtual relationships we've created and make them more sustainable once we're back to a more normal life and they become, you know, the new friendships, the new business relationships and networks that we can thrive on for the future? >> That's genius, love it. I agree. CUBE Virtual's here doing it. We're trying content, community, collaboration, connection, friendships, new things, touch someone with a click and engage. Mark Foster here, clicking into our CUBE Virtual for IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music) ♪ Dah, deeah ♪ ♪ Dah, dee ♪ (chimes ringing)

>>Hi, my name is Debbie Mangus and I am the global lead for IBM Garrett for IBM Services and I am most inspired by change about when it becomes real for our clients and making that change real and seeing Camera has been one of the biggest challenges for me with this, with this pandemic, is not being able to be there on client side with my teams. But one of the things I'm most excited to share about with you through think is some of the incredible stories. Despite Covid and how IBM Garrett has risen up to be the ultimate transformation accelerator, bringing innovation and transformation together to deliver your outcomes at scale. And I look forward to seeing you there. >>Mhm.

♪ Dah, deeah ♪ ♪ Dah, dee ♪ (chimes ringing) >> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE! With digital coverage of IBM Think 2021. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Mark Foster, Senior Vice President of IBM Services and IBM's Global Business Services. It's a global landscape, the world's changing, it's going hybrid. Mark, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Great to see you, John, good to be with you. >> You know, the theme this year is all about hybrid cloud. Global transformation is the innovation at scale. That's the discussion, that's the way I see it. The question I have for you to start right away is how has the last year in particular changed businesses as they're leveraging the tech? You know, they want to solve their critical problems and transform themselves, the pandemic has forced them to look at this. How has this last year changed the way businesses are leveraging tech? >> Well, there's definitely been an acceleration in the digital transformations across all of our clients around the world. They have been compelled to leverage technology to connect with their customers in these unique times. They've been forced to use technology tools to allow their teams to connect and operate around the world. And all of this has reinforced also the opportunity to leverage things like extreme automation, AI, and the leverage of things like the cloud to deal with the virtual and more remote nature of working around the world. >> How much of the change last year do you think's going to to be temporary or long lasting. What's not going to be given up? (laughs) What are people realizing? Is it temporary or is it long lasting? What's your take? >> Well, I think we have to recognize that we are moving into a genuinely hybrid world, well, hybrid insofar as I think that some of the lessons we've learned over this past period are going to durably change the way we work, but we're also going to have a certain amount of back to the future, as well, as we try and put back some of the aspects of physical interaction, the ways of actually bringing empathy, creativity together through being together in groups. But I do think also we're going to take a number of these areas of acceleration and they're going to be extrapolated out to genuinely lead to an acceleration of what might've taken place over over five years taking place over a lot shorter period. >> You know, I think that group dynamic is really a big deal. I think that's going to be something that, to me, jumps out at this transformation. People want to work together. They want to be part of something, totally right on. With that, I got to ask you, now that we have this kind of new virtual experience, we're remote, we're not in person, wish we were, but even when we are in personal, it'll still be hybrid virtual experience events means we're still going to act as a group. This kind of brings up the idea of a virtual enterprise. You kind of mentioned that. What you mean and how do you define a virtual enterprise? >> Well, I think a virtual enterprise for us is an extension of the thought process we've had before around how technology is transforming the way all businesses operate. If you do apply, you know, the power of technology to build new business platforms and think about new ways of applying technology to transform your business processes, you think about the way that all of us are reinventing the relationship between people and technology in our organizations, the virtual enterprise just takes that to the next level. It recognizes that if you are able to take a location out of the equation, if you're able to leverage ecosystems more completely through connecting through networks of organizations, all of this extends the vision that we have of how the cognitive enterprise of the past comes to life. And we create this even more connected, even more expansive vision of business which is of course able to leverage technology within its own four walls. It's able to leverage it powerfully with its business partners. But then finally, it's about how you create the platforms upon which you create new ecosystems for competition and new markets that can be created in that way. >> That's really compelling insight right there. I think that's right on the money. I have to ask you, what do you think the differentiating characteristics are for this enterprise? What's going to be the differentiator, what's going to make it work? What do you need- >> I think what's going to make it work first of all, I think we think there's going to be a sort of a golden thread of what you might call an extended intelligent workflow that runs through the enterprise and its partners. And the power of that sort of thread of core processes and core differentiation to be brought to life by the mutual leverage of technology through partnerships is going to be a hugely powerful. So therefore all the partners' ability to embrace those technologies to embrace the vision for how those workflows come together is going to be very important. I think it's going to be very important that actually the ecosystem and its success becomes the strategy of the of the participants as opposed to being something that they happened to be going along with. So it becomes the strategy of the organization. And I think finally, there's a huge amount around here around how you leverage and think about the power of your people, the culture that you create to be inclusive and expansive in terms of applying new talent, building new talent, to allow this virtual enterprise to thrive. >> That's actually brilliant. You know, ecosystem is part of it, not an afterthought or a marketing gimmick. It's got to be part of it, that's awesome. Let's bring that to the next level. The role of the ecosystems are taking a bigger role for you, as you said, what specifically can you point to that has a change that's made in the ecosystem that you can point to, says that's an impactful change, this is a table stake, this is a guaranteed continuing practice. Can you give an example? >> Well, I think what we can see around the world in terms of how the world has solved for something like you're getting vaccines created and distributed on the back of the COVID crisis, that's taken an ecosystem coming together to work in completely different ways in an accelerated way to deliver on very big outcomes. Well, we can also see, you know, clients who are developing their strategies to try and connect the dots across different players to position their business as a platform upon which others bring their parts, their organizations to bear. And I think that we can see therefore that this idea of ecosystems is being used to solve really big problems, but it's also potentially a model that can be used to actually define really big market opportunities as well. And when you can connect the dots and you can expand your market footprint by combining with other key players at scale and also create a way that smaller organizations can come and sit upon the platforms that you create and leverage those capabilities, then the opportunity to actually use that to really expand your horizons of where your business can go are very real. >> You know, that's a really interesting, mind blowing concept. You think about the idea of a network effect or ecosystems, and integration, and collective intelligence. These are paradigms that have been around for awhile, at least past 10 years. It was the Holy Grail, let's hope we get to that. It seems like that's happening right now. And I think more than ever, it can be harnessed. And so I think you starting to see that with the hybrid cloud and it's not just tech, it's societal impact, it's impacting people, their jobs, and their ability to contribute and work. So this is a huge concept. So really excited this conversation. I guess the next question I have for you, Mark, is how do you bring clients this value? How do they create value? And how do they take this and transform their business with it? What's the playbook? >> Well, I think for clients, the first thing for them to recognize is to understand that this is the world that they are operating in. And I think that from a playbook point of view, the first thing I would say is you do need to think about which ecosystems do I want to play in? How do I think I could win by being a part of, or shaping an ecosystem? I think, secondly, there's the opportunity to think about how you use all the data that's out there in the world to be a stronger source of innovation across an ecosystem, to think about how your products and services could be modernized to succeed in that world. How you build those innovations into this new vision of an extended workflow or process view that binds the players of your ecosystem together. And you're really thinking about how to reinvent the way work gets done. Apply automation, apply AI, apply blockchain, apply IoT to transform those workflows is a massive, massive opportunity. To recognize that actually by the power of that, you're able to have significantly more impact than before. So make sure you're setting your ambitions high enough around the impact the change you're trying to drive can bring, and then I think also just making sure you're thinking all the time about what this means for the culture of your organizations, the workforce you want to connect with, how you want to access talent and bring it to bear across this new extended value chain? You know, who do you need to employ, versus who do you need to contract with, versus who do you need to make sure are participating in the processes that you're driving? And then finally, how do you make sure that you have the infrastructure, and the systems, and the applications that are open enough to allow you to really bring this vision to life? So the underlying hybrid cloud, hybrid architectures that you have and the networks you have that bind you together become fundamental. >> That's awesome. Great insight there. I guess my final question is how has your personal outlook changed in the past year when everyone is working from home? And now we're starting to see the pandemic, you know, light at the end of the tunnel from this pandemic, once we emerge out of it, people want to have a growth strategy, want to get back to real life. Any words of advice for our viewers on your personal outlook and as we come out of the pandemic and they can participate- >> Well, I think the first thing to recognize is we all have a collective wish around the world, probably for the first time for a long time, I think pretty much most people in humanity are sharing a shared view about a desire to have a more expansive horizon than the one that's outside the window of their kitchen, which I'm looking out of right now, and being able to get out and about, and engage in some more aspects that of normal life. And I do think that we're all looking forward to that opportunity. I think we're going to have to recognize that we're probably all going to also adapt our behaviors, going forward, but there's almost an enormous amount of exciting things that we've all got pent up we want to go and do, and I think, you know, the critical thing for us all is to hopefully approach that world safely. But at the same time, recognize that there is hope, we are working our way through this as a world. And as long as we try and make sure we do that in a way that is actually equitable, and that we do make sure that all boats are lifted as we return here, then I think that's a really positive view of how the future will be for all of us. So we should all look forward to that. >> Mark, it's great to have you on theCUBE. I love the insight, I love your message. It's right on, it's relevant, and super cool because that's what people want. They want to collaborate and be with people. I guess with the final minute we have left, share an observation from the past year and a half. Something that surprised you that happened in the industry, something that you didn't expect or something that you did expect that's positive that we can look to and say, "That's a good thing, we want to double down on that." >> Well, I think the positive thing that I think we can double down on is that we have all actually learned to be perhaps more open to interacting with people who we wouldn't otherwise have interacted with through this medium, that actually I have found that I've broadened my network of people that I've been engaging with through the fact that it has been actually relatively easy to connect even at high levels with people, but all the people have been able to connect in a strange way with a bigger group of connections than you would have done through the normal physical constraints of flying somewhere, seeing someone, meeting someone, and how you use your time to do that. So I would say one of the positive things is actually how open people have been to start new relationships over this virtual medium. Of course, the trick is going to be, can we build on those virtual relationships we've created and make them more sustainable once we're back to a more normal life and they become, you know, the new friendships, the new business relationships and networks that we can thrive on for the future? >> That's genius, love it. I agree. CUBE Virtual's here doing it. We're trying content, community, collaboration, connection, friendships, new things, touch someone with a click and engage. Mark Foster here, clicking into our CUBE Virtual for IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music) ♪ Dah, deeah ♪ ♪ Dah, dee ♪ (chimes ringing)

>>from around the globe. >>It's the cube >>With digital coverage of IBM. Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm lisa martin, exciting conversation coming up about vaccine cloud management. I've got two guests with me, tim Elka is here, the sales and delivery director of IBM Services for Salesforce and fred Thompson joins us as well. The C. I. O. Of the health service executive in Ireland. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. >>Either I have to be here >>so we're very socially distant northern California UK. Glad to have you guys here. We're gonna talk about what the health service executive or HST and Ireland has done with IBM and Salesforce to facilitate vaccine management. But Fran let's go ahead and start with you talk to us a little bit about HSC >>So that the HSC provides public health and social services to everyone living in Ireland. Okay. We that acute hospitals community services nationally. We directly employ about 80,000 people and we fund a further about about 40,000 people. Um and our annual budget is slightly north of 21.6 billion a year. We are the largest employer in the state of the largest organizations the state. Uh you know, we provide a huge range of services right across the whole spectrum and we also fund other organizations who provide those services as well. So we would we would fund some voluntary and charity organizations and we would also uh by services from the latest A GP and other organizations as well. >>So talk to me about a year or so ago when the pandemic hit, what were some of the challenges that HSC faced and then when it came time to we have a vaccine, we have multiple vaccines that roll out um capability. What were some of the challenges that you faced initially? >>So from a an organizational perspective, um, there are, there were huge challenges in that. We were like every other health service worldwide facing uh, an enormous pandemic that was impacting on people. And this is all about people, it's all about people's lives. At the end of the day, people can talk about numbers and they can talk about costs and they can talk about other elements at the end of the day. This is about individual people's lives, their families and their communities. And for the HFC, our challenge was really about how do we manage to protect the totality of the population in Ireland as much as we can from, from the ravages of the virus. Um, and you know, the initial challenge we had was around contact tracing and managing that before a vaccine became available and once the vaccine became available it was then how do we stand up and national vaccine solution that we would be able to deliver and record vaccine to the totality of the population who were getting back? >>Yeah. So there was no pre existing vaccination program. Of course, probably in most places, you needed to get health care workers vaccinated ASAP. And it's also needed to be a national program. So what did you do next? After determining? All right, we need to work with some partners to be able to build technology to facilitate uh equitable, efficient rollout of the vaccine. >>So we did have regional vaccine systems and we do have a number of vaccine programs out there that were that were managing flu vaccine, heP C vaccine. But we needed we did we didn't have a national program and we needed to vaccinate people immediately. Um, and we also wanted to make sure that vaccine program was not dependent on the HSC infrastructure because, you know, we want to be able to vaccinate people in non HSC sites and we wanted non HSC staff to be able to vaccination. Uh, and we didn't want a huge pre dependent on our existing infrastructure. Um, so the first thing we did, we we looked at a number of vendors. Um, and we chose IBM as our partner with Salesforce. And that partnership is really a strategic partnership and it's a partnership that we worked through all the bumps and all the lumps of the program together. Um, and you know, and and there there have been challenges, but like it's too working with him and his team and through our team that we've overcome some of those challenges. Um, and like when we started off, remember the very first conversation I had with him as legislators, we need to vaccinate healthcare workers now, okay, you've got two weeks to start, um and we need to configure a system, get it up and running and to be able to um roll it out to the hospital And two. I'm very quickly then to all of our nursing care homes. Now, that was the challenge. >>And let's bring tIM in is this is a radically quick project from MPB to roll out in two weeks to talk to us about first about the IBM partnership with Salesforce and what you're building together. >>Absolutely. And it's great and Fran. It's interesting to hear you speaking about the run into this because from my perspective, a week before we all started this, we had a simple conversation called into Health Service Executive has some talking about some vaccination program, how can we help? And then within a week we've gone from zero to having how many calls with Fran and team just to understand and with the salesforce team to really understand how the 33 parties can bring the best of IBM, the best of Salesforce and the best of HSC in terms of the adaptability and what we need to get done to get those vaccinations up and running for the health care workers. Now, you know when franz said to me, we need something in two weeks, there was absolutely clarity. If you can't do it in two weeks there's a door, right? So we knew exactly the challenge and that's the kind of thing right before christmas that we were so fortunate to really bring in the team like everyone you think about this, everyone has probably the 14th of december, I was thinking of winding down thinking of having their christmas holidays and vacation time and everybody from the irish team and from the english team said no or cancel, christmas will cancel everything. So it's really christmas came early and christmas was canceled all at once, so and the key bit here, the strategic partnership is, I'm in the sales force have been working together for years and years and years growing out a partnership, we know their products really well, we've got huge capability in that space, but actually with the new health cloud part of it, the vaccine management parts are quite new to salesforce as well, only launched back in august september time, so it's quite new, so we had to go in together as a sort of partnership there to say to just get this done. So we had the best people from salesforce, I know the product, the best people from IBM all turning up on the 14th of december and saying right, we've got to get this done By the 29th with christmas and christmas holidays in the way the vacation time in the way, I think we have 36 hours of time off to eat turkey and fill ourselves before getting back to the wheel and really getting this done and to get I think was four acute hospitals we went into as of the 29th to start the vaccination program, so trying to do that, understanding everything is a compromise at that point, but it has to be secure, you know, this, this is, this is personal data going into these systems, so you can't forget about all the aspects, it's got this minimum but minimum with those kind of constraints as a health system. So it needs to be secure, it needs to also be that national platform going forward as well. So basing on a great platform like Salesforce, you know, you can scale out, you know, you've got those options to grow in the future, but yeah, not without a lot of challenge and then working out what's now getting to know each other, but if we only talked about twice before, we have to know each other pretty well now, um, but just trying to work out how we then structure, what's going to happen every two weeks afterwards, How is that going to move forward? We're going live every two weeks and we haven't done that now for the last three months, So good fun. >>So yeah, good fun. And but so much work to get done and according huge, coordinated effort in a very short time period, during a very challenging time. Talk to me a little bit about France, but you launched this um cloud management vaccine, Cloud management in january 2021 today to thank you. Told me one million people have been vaccinated so far. Talk to me about what the IBM Salesforce solution enables you to deliver to the HSC and to the irish citizens. >>So we have delivered a million vaccines. Okay to uh to stage is uh there's a dose one of those two for most people in Ireland. Um and there's about 720,000 people have got their dose one and the balance I've got, I've got the dose too, that's about sort of just about one in five of the population. That has to be that there has to be vaccinated. And one of these were very conscious of is that, you know, an organization is that we need to take a risk-based approach to this. So we need to look at the most vulnerable groups. There were lots of people who were dying from, you know, from this and they were all the a lot of people are elderly groups and people who were who were vulnerable with uh with pre medical condition. So our challenge was how do we, how do we vaccinate those people quickly and effectively uh and also vaccinate health care workers who are going to care for these people? Uh and and that's what we're, we prioritize the work. So we have to go into 50 acute sites, about 600 or so care homes. We set up a lot of what we call pop up clinics literally attended the in a location or we took over a sports hall or whatever we did. We rolled it out to the GPS to about 2.5 1000 G. P. Site. Um and all of that was being done while we were building the system. So we were, you know, building the system and designing the system on two weeks prints. We have to be agile way too quick. We can make huge compromises and we know that okay. I mean everyone wants a perfect system which is to make the compromise and look and see what you need to do now to keep the program running and how you manage that were, you know, Uh about 3000 users all to be set up fairly quickly or a little over between 1000 users so you can manage all that as you're going through everything. >>I think agile is the name of the game here. Tim talked to us about how you're delivering the agility in such a 10uous time. >>Well, we're all virtual which is added to the mix. But the funny thing with that agility, we've got a span of people across all the countries and everywhere that we can bring to that that party and we're running a normal but I was kind of a normal agile project except normally it would take 23 months to really get that team working effectively, getting to know each other and we just not had time to that to do that. So there's been a core team here and we're bringing in the experts around it. But really just everything is working with Fran work very hand in glove, trying just to work out what we need to do here to look at the next sprint, to look at the next go Live, to look at the compromise. How do we compromise for two weeks? What can we live with for two weeks? What's in the backlog for now? And Fran and I have many conversations, what do we need to do this week and then what's next week? And that's the level of fluidity And that's in part because of the way the pandemics and the response to pandemic is mapping out as we saw the vaccines are changing availability, is changing the rollout plan is changing. None of us have worked through a pandemic before. So agility is the name of the game at the highest level. I think we're all now very used to being sorry, there's a problem. Something's changed. Can we adapt the system to you know where normally in a sprint, I'd be thinking I've got some fixed requirements for two weeks. I'll build that and then do the next two weeks, everything is up for grabs and we're just having to maintain quality at the pace, the responsiveness and balancing it all as an IBM team and you think, and whilst we're also doing that on a platform that it takes time to configure and build these things as well. So it's some of it is you're gonna have to wait a few days. So sorry, you know, in a few days is really probably sometimes the maximum amount of time that can be, you can differ. But as Fran and everyone in the HRC and the, the national immunization office, everyone's pragmatic about realizing we're all in this together and it's really just being one single team, one unit working out and very open and transparent about the, after the possible >>we're doing something, go ahead. >>And we had a phrase, there was like, those are the pieces, we just just do it now and, and we did a lot of that. Okay. Um, you know, where there were things that were prioritized, we're in the middle of a sprint. Um, there were there were changes in the program or there were changes in how, how the vaccination was going to be delivered. Um, and we couldn't wait the week. Just it wasn't available. So we have this thing is just gonna do it now and him and the team, you know, drop what they were doing, you know, made the changes, we test them fast and we put them in and and that gave us then, you know, an extra time to actually then deliver the rest of the sprint and we have to do that. Several Okay. Several very, very late night to deliver >>and I imagine that's still going on. But to wrap here guys, amazing work that you've done together so far with the Salesforce vaccine Club Management rolling out across the HSC, you said one million vaccinations delivered many hundreds of thousands in the queue. I'm sure more iterative work and sleepless nights. But what you're doing for the country of Ireland is literally as friends in the beginning. Life saving Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today on the program. >>You're welcome. Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you. >>Tim and Fran. I'm lisa martin. You're watching two cubes coverage of IBM think 2021. >>Mhm >>mm.

>>from around the globe, it's the >>Cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2020 >>one brought to you >>by IBM. Hello, welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual soon we'll be back in person in real life. But this year again it's a virtual conference. I'm john for your host of the cube for more cube coverage. You got a great guest here Debbie Viviendas Global garage lead for IBM Services Global garage great program. Ah Debbie, great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>So we've covered the garage a lot on the cube in the past and the success, Everyone loves the garage things are born in the garage, entrepreneurship innovation has been kind of categorically known for kind of the garage start up um but also it's become um known for really agile agility and which has been a cloud phenomenon, devops and now we're seeing Deb sec apps as a big trend this year with hybrid cloud. So I gotta ask you, how is garage doing with the pandemic? I was I can almost imagine people at home kind of disrupted from the office, but maybe more creativity, maybe more energy online. What's going on with the garage? How has your transformation journey been with Covid? >>Well, don't I mean it's Covid has been the level of for us. All right, there isn't a person who hasn't had some challenge or some complexity to Yeah, and that includes our clients and I'm incredibly proud to be able to say that IBM garage because it is so digitally native. When the covid pandemic has struck around the world, every single one of our garages was able to switch to being virtual without fail without a single days lost productivity. And that I mean that's hugely beneficial to clients who are on an incredible time sensitive journey. And so we've seen as a result of Covid actually there are a huge acceleration in garages from two reasons. The number one from a virtualization perspective. Actually it's much easier when everybody's together in the same space, everybody's together virtually in the same space. And we've seen acceleration in our velocity and our collaboration because everybody is really learning how to work in that century. But to because of the pandemic, because of the pressure on our client's needs to make decisions fast. No, not guess really, be focused on their outcomes, not just doing stuff, the garage really plays to that objective for them. And so we've seen a huge rise. We've gone from 2019 to just a few 100 garages to finishing 2020 with over 2.5 1000 garages and being embedded across services and the goal of being the primary way our clients experiencing COVID has been a big accelerator. >>Sorry Debbie, can you repeat the numbers again? I just want to capture that. I missed that. >>Sure. Sure. So we finished >>training on the numbers. >>Yeah. So that we finished 2019 with just under 300 garages and we finished 2020 with just over 2.5 1000. So we've had a huge growth in the in the rain and it isn't just the number of garages, it's the range of garages and what we're what we're serving with our clients and how we're collaborating with our clients and the topics were unpacking. That is is really broadened. >>Yeah. I mean I I covered and we've reported on the garage on the Cuban also in silicon angle dot com. And the past thinks and through your your news coverage. That's amazing growth. Um I gotta believe the tailwind from Covid and just the energy around it has energized. You wanna get your thoughts on that because you know what we've reported the past, it's been about design, thinking human centered design, all those beautiful things that come with cloud, cloud scale, right? You know, you're moving faster, you're innovating. Um and so that's been kind of there, but what you're getting at with this growth is with and what Covid has proven. And again, we've been pointing this out, you're seeing the pattern, It's clear companies are either retrenching okay. Which is re factoring, redesigning, doing those things to kind of get ready to come out to cope with a growth strategy and you're seeing other companies um build net new innovations so they're building new capabilities because Covid shown them kind of pulled back the curtain if you will on where the action is. So this means there's two threads going on. You got okay, I got to transform my business and I gotta re factor and then, or hey, we got net new business models, these are kind of two different things and not mutually exclusive. What's your comment on that? >>Uh, and I think that my comment on is that is the sweet spot that garage comes into its own right. You mentioned lots of things in that, you talked about design thinking and agility and you know, these other buzzwords that are used all the time and garage of course is synonymous with those of course, you know, it's Gap uses the best design thinking and agile practices and all of those things that absolutely core to what we do, devops, even through down to design up, we have the whole range depending on what the client objective is, but I think what is really happening now is the innovation, you know, being something separate. It is no longer how to accelerate your outcomes and your business outcomes regardless of whether that is in re factoring and modernizing your existing estate or diversifying creating new ecosystems and new platforms and new offerings. Regardless of what that is, you can't do it separate to your, To your core business. I mean it's a well known fact John right, like 75 of transformation programmes failed to deliver an impact on the business performance. Right? And in the same period of time there's been huge cuts in innovation funding and that's because for the same reason because they don't deliver the impact of the business performance and that's why garage is unique because it is entirely focused on the outcome, right? But using user research through design thinking of course using agile to deliver it at speed and all of those other things, but it's focused on value, on benefits, realization and driving to your outcome. And we do that by putting that innovation at the heart of your enterprise in order to drive that transformation rather than it being something separate. >>Debbie, I saw you gave a talk uh called Innovation Is Dead. Um obviously that's a provocative title. That's an attention getter. Um tell me what you mean by that because it seems to be a setup. I mean many mentions dead. Was it with a question mark? What you're kind of trying to highlight that innovation is transformation? Or were you trying >>to do the full title? The full title was Innovation is Dead and transformation is pointless. And of course, it's meant to be an eye catching title. So people show up and listen to my pitch rather than somebody else's. But But the reality is I mean that most sincerely it's back to that step, 75 of these transformation programmes failed to deliver the impact. And I and I speculate that that is for a few reasons because the idea itself wasn't a good one or wasn't at the right time because you were unable to understand what the measure of good looked like and therefore him just be able to create that path. And in order to transform a company, you must transform the individuals within a company. And so that way of working becomes incredibly holistic and it's those three things, I think amongst the whole myriad of others are the primary reasons why those programs fail. And what garage does is it breaks this by putting innovation at the heart of your enterprise and by using data driven value orchestration. That means that we don't no, we don't guess where the value to be gained is. We know it's no longer checking ideas at the wall to see what sticks it's meaningful research. It's not searching. This is my favorite quote from my dear friend Courtney, know, who says it's not about searching for the innovation needle in the proverbial haystack. It's using your research in order to de risk your investment and drive your innovation to enable your outcomes. So if you do innovation without a view to how it's going to yield your business outcomes, I agree. I fundamentally agree that it's pointless. >>Exactly. Of course, we're on the writing side. We love titles like innovation is dead long live innovation, so that's classic. Get your attention. But I think >>Exactly, and of course what I really mean is that innovation is a separate entity, >>totally. >>There is no longer relevant for company to make sure they achieve their business >>outcome. Well, this is what I wanted to just double click on that with you on is that you look at transformation, you guys essentially saying transformation meets innovation with the garage philosophy if I get that right. Um, and, and, and it's interesting I had, and we've experienced here with the cube where the cube virtual, we're not at IBM think there is no physical game day, like >>my house. >>And, and so I was talking to a Ceo and he said, I said, hey you guys are doing really, really good. You know, we had to pivot with the cube and he goes, you guys did a good pivot yourself because no, john we did not pivot, we actually put our business on hold because of the pandemic. We actually created a line extension. So technically we're going to bring that business back when Covid is gone and we come back to real life. So it's technically not a pivot. We're not pivoting our business. We've created new functionality through the innovations that they were doing. So this is kind of like, this is the real deal here. This is like depends proven what's your share your thoughts on that? >>Well, it's just to me it's about people get so focused on the output that they lose track of the outcome, right? And so being really clear on what you're doing and why and the outcomes can be really broad that, you know, so instead of saying, you know, we're all going to implement the new E. R. P. Or build a new mobile app. That's that's that's not an outcome, right? What we should be saying is what we're trying to achieve is a 10% growth in net promoter score in china, Right in this group or whatever it is we were trying to achieve right, we want to make a 25 reduction in our operating cost base by simplifying our estate whatever those outcomes are. I mean that's the starting point and then driving that use to use as the vehicle for what is the right innovation, what is going to deliver that value and fast right garage delivers 3-5 times faster than other models and reduced delivery costs. And so it's all about that speed, speed of decision, speed of insight, speed of culture and training, speed of new skills and speed to outcomes. >>You got a great job, love what you're doing in Karaj got a great model, congratulations on the growth. Love this intersection or transformation meets innovation because innovation is transformation advice versus interplay going on there I think has proven that. Let me dig into a little bit more about the garage. What's going on? How many practitioners you guys have there now at IBM? Um, you've got growth. Are you adding more people in? I'll see virtual first. Covid. Is there still centers of design take us through what's going on at garage? >>Certainly. So I think I mentioned it right up front. Right. So our goal is to make IBM guards the primary way our clients experiences. We've proven that it delivers higher value to our clients and they get really rich and broad set of outcomes. And so in order for us to deliver on that promise, we have to be unable to cross IBM to deliver to it. Right? So over the last 18 months or so we've had a whole range of training programs and enable we have a whole badging and certification program. We have all the skills and the pathways and the career pathways to find. But garages for everybody. Right? And so it isn't about creating a selected group that can do this across IBM, this is about making all of services capable. So in 2020 we we trained over 28,000 people right? In in all the different skills that are needed from selling to execution to QA to use a research, whatever it is. And this year we're launching our garage skills academy which will take that across all of services and make it easily available. So we will, you've got to >>talk about the footprint of the global side because again, not to bring up global, but global is what yours in your title companies need to be global because now with virtual workforce is you're seeing much more tapped creativity and execution ability to execute from global teams. How does that impact you? >>Well, so garages as in its global in two perspectives. Right, So number one, we have garages all around the world. Right? It isn't it isn't just the market of you are most developed nations in the Americas and europe. It is everywhere. We see it in all emerging markets, from latin America through to you all parts of eastern europe which are really beginning to come into their own. So we see all these different garages of different different scales and opportunity. So definitely global from that image. But what what what virtualization has also enabled these truly global teams because it's really easy to go, I need one of those. Okay, I need a supply chain expert and I need an Ai expert and I need somebody who's got industry experience in whatever it is and you can quickly gather them around the virtual table faster than you can in a physical table. But we still leverage the global community >>for the network. You have an expert network there at IBM. >>You have a huge network. Yeah. And both both within IBM and of course a growing network of ecosystem partners that we continue to work >>with. Debbie. I'm really excited. Congratulations. Growth. I'm looking forward to partnering with you on your ecosystem as that develops. I can almost imagine you must be getting a lot of outside IBM practitioners and experts coming in to collaborate. It is a social construct. It's a great program. Thanks for sharing >>my pleasure. It's been great to be here. Thank >>you. Okay, IBM's global garage. Lee Debbie Vegas who's here on the queue with IBM services, a phenomenon. This is social construct is helping companies with digital transformation intersecting with innovation. I'm john for your host. Thanks for watching

>> Live from San Francisco, California, it's the theCUBE, covering the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to San Francisco everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise and we're here at the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit, 10th anniversary. Seth Dobrin is here, he's the Vice President and Chief Data Officer of the IBM Analytics Group. Seth, always a pleasure to have you on. Good to see you again. >> Yeah, thanks for having me back Dave. >> You're very welcome. So I love these events you get a chance to interact with chief data officers, guys like yourself. We've been talking a lot today about IBM's internal transformation, how IBM itself is operationalizing AI and maybe we can talk about that, but I'm most interested in how you're pointing that at customers. What have you learned from your internal experiences and what are you bringing to customers? >> Yeah, so, you know, I was hired at IBM to lead part of our internal transformation, so I spent a lot of time doing that. >> Right. >> I've also, you know, when I came over to IBM I had just left Monsanto where I led part of their transformation. So I spent the better part of the first year or so at IBM not only focusing on our internal efforts, but helping our clients transform. And out of that I found that many of our clients needed help and guidance on how to do this. And so I started a team we call, The Data Science an AI Elite Team, and really what we do is we sit down with clients, we share not only our experience, but the methodology that we use internally at IBM so leveraging things like design thinking, DevOps, Agile, and how you implement that in the context of data science and AI. >> I've got a question, so Monsanto, obviously completely different business than IBM-- >> Yeah. >> But when we talk about digital transformation and then talk about the difference between a business and a digital business, it comes down to the data. And you've seen a lot of examples where you see companies traversing industries which never used to happen before. You know, Apple getting into music, there are many, many examples, and the theory is, well, it's 'cause it's data. So when you think about your experiences of a completely different industry bringing now the expertise to IBM, were there similarities that you're able to draw upon, or was it a completely different experience? >> No, I think there's tons of similarities which is, which is part of why I was excited about this and I think IBM was excited to have me. >> Because the chances for success were quite high in your mind? >> Yeah, yeah, because the chance for success were quite high, and also, you know, if you think about it there's on the, how you implement, how you execute, the differences are really cultural more than they're anything to do with the business, right? So it's, the whole role of a Chief Data Officer, or Chief Digital Officer, or a Chief Analytics Officer, is to drive fundamental change in the business, right? So it's how do you manage that cultural change, how do you build bridges, how do you make people, how do you make people a little uncomfortable, but at the same time get them excited about how to leverage things like data, and analytics, and AI, to change how they do business. And really this concept of a digital transformation is about moving away from traditional products and services, more towards outcome-based services and not selling things, but selling, as a Service, right? And it's the same whether it's IBM, you know, moving away from fully transactional to Cloud and subscription-based offerings. Or it's a bank reimagining how they interact with their customers, or it's oil and gas company, or it's a company like Monsanto really thinking about how do we provide outcomes. >> But how do you make sure that every, as a Service, is not a snowflake and it can scale so that you can actually, you know, make it a business? >> So underneath the, as a Service, is a few things. One is, data, one is, machine learning and AI, the other is really understanding your customer, right, because truly digital companies do everything through the eyes of their customer and so every company has many, many versions of their customer until they go through an exercise of creating a single version, right, a customer or a Client 360, if you will, and we went through that exercise at IBM. And those are all very consistent things, right? They're all pieces that kind of happen the same way in every company regardless of the industry and then you get into understanding what the desires of your customer are to do business with you differently. >> So you were talking before about the Chief Digital Officer, a Chief Data Officer, Chief Analytics Officer, as a change agent making people feel a little bit uncomfortable, explore that a little bit what's that, asking them questions that intuitively they, they know they need to have the answer to, but they don't through data? What did you mean by that? >> Yeah so here's the conversations that usually happen, right? You go and you talk to you peers in the organization and you start having conversations with them about what decisions are they trying to make, right? And you're the Chief Data Officer, you're responsible for that, and inevitably the conversation goes something like this, and I'm going to paraphrase. Give me the data I need to support my preconceived notions. >> (laughing) Yeah. >> Right? >> Right. >> And that's what they want to (voice covers voice). >> Here's the answer give me the data that-- >> That's right. So I want a Dashboard that helps me support this. And the uncomfortableness comes in a couple of things in that. It's getting them to let go of that and allow the data to provide some inkling of things that they didn't know were going on, that's one piece. The other is, then you start leveraging machine learning, or AI, to actually help start driving some decisions, so limiting the scope from infinity down to two or three things and surfacing those two or three things and telling people in your business your choices are one of these three things, right? That starts to make people feel uncomfortable and really is a challenge for that cultural change getting people used to trusting the machine, or in some instances even, trusting the machine to make the decision for you, or part of the decision for you. >> That's got to be one of the biggest cultural challenges because you've got somebody who's, let's say they run a big business, it's a profitable business, it's the engine of cashflow at the company, and you're saying, well, that's not what the data says. And you're, say okay, here's a future path-- >> Yeah. >> For success, but it's going to be disruptive, there's going to be a change and I can see people not wanting to go there. >> Yeah, and if you look at, to the point about, even businesses that are making the most money, or parts of a business that are making the most money, if you look at what the business journals say you start leveraging data and AI, you get double-digit increases in your productivity, in your, you know, in differentiation from your competitors. That happens inside of businesses too. So the conversation even with the most profitable parts of the business, or highly, contributing the most revenue is really what we could do better, right? You could get better margins on this revenue you're driving, you could, you know, that's the whole point is to get better leveraging data and AI to increase your margins, increase your revenue, all through data and AI. And then things like moving to, as a Service, from single point to transaction, that's a whole different business model and that leads from once every two or three or five years, getting revenue, to you get revenue every month, right? That's highly profitable for companies because you don't have to go in and send your sales force in every time to sell something, they buy something once, and they continue to pay as long as you keep 'em happy. >> But I can see that scaring people because if the incentives don't shift to go from a, you know, pay all up front, right, there's so many parts of the organization that have to align with that in order for that culture to actually occur. So can you give some examples of how you've, I mean obviously you ran through that at IBM, you saw-- >> Yeah. >> I'm sure a lot of that, got a lot of learnings and then took that to clients. Maybe some examples of client successes that you've had, or even not so successes that you've learned from. >> Yeah, so in terms of client success, I think many of our clients are just beginning this journey, certainly the ones I work with are beginning their journey so it's hard for me to say, client X has successfully done this. But I can certainly talk about how we've gone in, and some of the use cases we've done-- >> Great. >> With certain clients to think about how they transformed their business. So maybe the biggest bang for the buck one is in the oil and gas industry. So ExxonMobile was on stage with me at, Think, talking about-- >> Great. >> Some of the work that we've done with them in their upstream business, right? So every time they drop a well it costs them not thousands of dollars, but hundreds of millions of dollars. And in the oil and gas industry you're talking massive data, right, tens or hundreds of petabytes of data that constantly changes. And no one in that industry really had a data platform that could handle this dynamically. And it takes them months to get, to even start to be able to make a decision. So they really want us to help them figure out, well, how do we build a data platform on this massive scale that enables us to be able to make decisions more rapidly? And so the aim was really to cut this down from 90 days to less than a month. And through leveraging some of our tools, as well as some open-source technology, and teaching them new ways of working, we were able to lay down this foundation. Now this is before, we haven't even started thinking about helping them with AI, oil and gas industry has been doing this type of thing for decades, but they really were struggling with this platform. So that's a big success where, at least for the pilot, which was a small subset of their fields, we were able to help them reduce that timeframe by a lot to be able to start making a decision. >> So an example of a decision might be where to drill next? >> That's exactly the decision they're trying to make. >> Because for years, in that industry, it was boop, oh, no oil, boop, oh, no oil. >> Yeah, well. >> And they got more sophisticated, they started to use data, but I think what you're saying is, the time it took for that analysis was quite long. >> So the time it took to even overlay things like seismic data, topography data, what's happened in wells, and core as they've drilled around that, was really protracted just to pull the data together, right? And then once they got the data together there were some really, really smart people looking at it going, well, my experience says here, and it was driven by the data, but it was not driven by an algorithm. >> A little bit of art. >> True, a lot of art, right, and it still is. So now they want some AI, or some machine learning, to help guide those geophysicists to help determine where, based on the data, they should be dropping wells. And these are hundred million and billion dollar decisions they're making so it's really about how do we help them. >> And that's just one example, I mean-- >> Yeah. >> Every industry has it's own use cases, or-- >> Yeah, and so that's on the front end, right, about the data foundation, and then if you go to a company that was really advanced in leveraging analytics, or machine learning, JPMorgan Chase, in their, they have a division, and also they were on stage with me at, Think, that they had, basically everything is driven by a model, so they give traders a series of models and they make decisions. And now they need to monitor those models, those hundreds of models they have for misuse of those models, right? And so they needed to build a series of models to manage, to monitor their models. >> Right. >> And this was a tremendous deep-learning use case and they had just bought a power AI box from us so they wanted to start leveraging GPUs. And we really helped them figure out how do you navigate and what's the difference between building a model leveraging GPUs, compared to CPUs? How do you use it to accelerate the output, and again, this was really a cost-avoidance play because if people misuse these models they can get in a lot of trouble. But they also need to make these decisions very quickly because a trader goes to make a trade they need to make a decision, was this used properly or not before that trade is kicked off and milliseconds make a difference in the stock market so they needed a model. And one of the things about, you know, when you start leveraging GPUs and deep learning is sometimes you need these GPUs to do training and sometimes you need 'em to do training and scoring. And this was a case where you need to also build a pipeline that can leverage the GPUs for scoring as well which is actually quite complicated and not as straight forward as you might think. In near real time, in real time. >> Pretty close to real time. >> You can't get much more real time then those things, potentially to stop a trade before it occurs to protect the firm. >> Yeah. >> Right, or RELug it. >> Yeah, and don't quote, I think this is right, I think they actually don't do trades until it's confirmed and so-- >> Right. >> Or that's the desire as to not (voice covers voice). >> Well, and then now you're in a competitive situation where, you know. >> Yeah, I mean people put these trading floors as close to the stock exchange as they can-- >> Physically. >> Physically to (voice covers voice)-- >> To the speed of light right? >> Right, so every millisecond counts. >> Yeah, read Flash Boys-- >> Right, yeah. >> So, what's the biggest challenge you're finding, both at IBM and in your clients, in terms of operationalizing AI. Is it technology? Is it culture? Is it process? Is it-- >> Yeah, so culture is always hard, but I think as we start getting to really think about integrating AI and data into our operations, right? As you look at what software development did with this whole concept of DevOps, right, and really rapidly iterating, but getting things into a production-ready pipeline, looking at continuous integration, continuous development, what does that mean for data and AI? And these concept of DataOps and AIOps, right? And I think DataOps is very similar to DevOps in that things don't change that rapidly, right? You build your data pipeline, you build your data assets, you integrate them. They may change on the weeks, or months timeframe, but they're not changing on the hours, or days timeframe. As you get into some of these AI models some of them need to be retrained within a day, right, because the data changes, they fall out of parameters, or the parameters are very narrow and you need to keep 'em in there, what does that mean? How do you integrate this for your, into your CI/CD pipeline? How do you know when you need to do regression testing on the whole thing again? Does your data science and AI pipeline even allow for you to integrate into your current CI/CD pipeline? So this is actually an IBM-wide effort that my team is leading to start thinking about, how do we incorporate what we're doing into people's CI/CD pipeline so we can enable AIOps, if you will, or MLOps, and really, really IBM is the only company that's positioned to do that for so many reasons. One is, we're the only one with an end-to-end toolchain. So we do everything from data, feature development, feature engineering, generating models, whether selecting models, whether it's auto AI, or hand coding or visual modeling into things like trust and transparency. And so we're the only one with that entire toolchain. Secondly, we've got IBM research, we've got decades of industry experience, we've got our IBM Services Organization, all of us have been tackling with this with large enterprises so we're uniquely positioned to really be able to tackle this in a very enterprised-grade manner. >> Well, and the leverage that you can get within IBM and for your customers. >> And leveraging our clients, right? >> It's off the charts. >> We have six clients that are our most advanced clients that are working with us on this so it's not just us in a box, it's us with our clients working on this. >> So what are you hoping to have happen today? We're just about to get started with the keynotes. >> Yeah. >> We're going to take a break and then come back after the keynotes and we've got some great guests, but what are you hoping to get out of today? >> Yeah, so I've been with IBM for 2 1/2 years and I, and this is my eighth CEO Summit, so I've been to many more of these than I've been at IBM. And I went to these religiously before I joined IBM really for two reasons. One, there's no sales pitch, right, it's not a trade show. The second is it's the only place where I get the opportunity to listen to my peers and really have open and candid conversations about the challenges they're facing and how they're addressing them and really giving me insights into what other industries are doing and being able to benchmark me and my organization against the leading edge of what's going on in this space. >> I love it and that's why I love coming to these events. It's practitioners talking to practitioners. Seth Dobrin thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks always, Dave. >> Always a pleasure. All right, keep it right there everybody we'll be right back right after this short break. You're watching, theCUBE, live from San Francisco. Be right back.

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live at IBM Think 2019 in San Francisco. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman and we're welcoming a couple of guys to theCUBE for the first time. We've got Craig Reese, Cisco global alliance executive at IBM, and Jeff Gatz, IBM partner alliance executive at Cisco. >> Correct. >> Alright, guys, so this is not the first time that you've met. You guys have been working together for a very long time. Craig, let's start with you. As we look at this world that we're in today. The average company has, what? Five different private clouds, public clouds. We're in this reality of hybrid multi-cloud. I read a stat the other day, Stu, that you shared with me, that 80% of organizations in 2018 migrated data or apps from public cloud. So there's this inherent challenging kind of complex situation that we live in. >> That is true. >> What is the hard truth that organizations have to go through or face about transacting business in a multi-cloud environment? >> Yeah, well, it's as you described, it is a multi-cloud, so by definition is complex. Two, the kind of the easy things have been moved, right? So maybe only 20% of the workloads, the easy stuff is moved, now the hard stuff has to start, and how do you do that? How do you understand what those workloads are? How do you understand which cloud's the right cloud? If any cloud. Maybe it needs to stay on-premise, right? So as you're looking at private cloud, public cloud, on-prem, how do you get there? Who can help you get there? And that we believe we come in, both from a services provider as well as a key technology partner, right? I mean, the technology alone isn't enough, right? You have to be able to figure out how to have it work within the organization and have the technology work as well for you. It's a balancing act but we think that's where our strong suit is from and IBM Services standpoint. >> And I'd say that complexity, it almost leads to paralysis for a lot of businesses. They've done what they can do, that 80% becomes really difficult, and so they end up in a cycle of what's the right technology? What's the right solution? How do I move forward? And that's where Cisco looks at IBM Services and says, okay, this is a partnership that allow our customers to more easily transition into that next phase of digitization. >> We were actually at Cisco Live in Barcelona two weeks ago and we heard a lot about multi-cloud and how those solutions fit together. Explain to our audience a little bit, what is the IBM plus Cisco? How does that go together? Both companies have a long history in the data center. IBM's got lots of applications, CISCO, of course, strong on the network. So explain where there's some of those deep intersection points and some of the services that come together. >> So if you start from a services or you start from the IBM-Cisco relationship standpoint, we're not new kids on the block. We go back decades, two decades, together in terms of IBM as a partner deploying Cisco technologies, incorporating Cisco technologies, and our customers. So we have a strong base of skills, we have a long history, but I think in this cloud world, we also have a shared perspective that it is a multi-cloud world. It's not, well, you're going to do this and we're going to do this. We do have a shared perspective of what our customers need and we believe that together we bring a unique proposition to them in the marketplace, far different than maybe I would say different than other Cisco partner, but also even just from a services integrator, or an IT services integrator, which is really what we are. >> So just to parlay on that 'cause one of the things we really worked with with customers is there's a lot of different ways customers want to consume technology now. And so there's standard systems integrator perspective, but really what we're seeing now is customer's are a lot more interested in, how do I offload IT and just go about the business of running what I'm good at? I want somebody else to do the thing that they're good at so I can do what I'm good at. And so when you look as a managed service provider, what does that really mean? So is it just as a service consumption model? Is that something more along the lines of, take it over for me and manage everything together? And where we see really unique value, where IBM's really investing, that we're really excited about, is in the automation and orchestration across the globe for their customer. So not just, how do I provide hybrid-cloud and multi-cloud, but offer that in a way that is consumptive, and then automated and orchestrated for them so that it really is just a turnkey easy button, if you will. >> Customers have gotten spoiled, right? It's easy, swipe a card and all of a sudden you're spun up. Well, now they're looking for that at a broader range across the enterprise, and what Jeff just said, that's one of where we think we can bring value to them in helping them get to that consumption model that they want, they've gotten used to, while they're still trying to do the hard stuff with the technology. >> So, Craig, what's a double click into that value perspective? Where does IBM and your services really shine here, and help customers actually leverage what you're bringing to unlock the value of their data? >> So first off would be global, right? I mean, let's face it, we are a large company, global presence, both in terms of our skill base, in terms of the management capabilities that Jeff talked about that we have. So we bring that global footprint, that global presence, to be able to deploy, design, build, run, manage, kind of take them through their whole life cycle. And in our offerings, it's kind of the where we're going. We're going from being a custom one-off, custom two-off. It's really looking at standardizing 80, 90% of this to drive the automation benefits, to drive the consistency and the delivery model, to deliver the SLAs that they want out of this, all backed up by the business model that how they want to consume it. So it's a definite change in going down that path. >> Jeff, you mentioned earlier that customer's can just have paralysis based on there's so many choices out there. And here Craig talking about we need to get standardization. That's one of the challenges today is there's so many options. It's nice if I just can consume something as a service, but, oh, my business is a little bit different and I have special requirements. Something I heard a lot at the Cisco show and I'm hearing in here is you need to meet them where they are. And at the Cisco show, it was the bridge to possible. It's like, where are you today and how do you get there? Help give us a little bit of insight as to, because today IT is, in my words, I'll say it's a heterogeneous mess. (chuckles) Everybody, it's like I built it based on what I need and inside I built temples of excellence or silos. So how do I get from that world before that was highly fragmented and very different to allowing it to be able to be scalable, and grow, and change faster? >> So virtualization becomes that double-edged sword, right? It gives us that flexibility, but it also causes that fragmentation across 'cause I have so much more flexibility now. So I think the generic 80/20 rule applies. Every customer, your mileage may vary, right? But you can get to a base standard of what is the right platform with which to provide the flexibility that individual customers need, and that's where the experience of IBM Services, they've worked with every Fortune 1000 customer you can possibly imagine. So they've seen all the permutations that are out there, especially as it relates to deploying Cisco technology. So they understand what base they need going forward, and then what part are they going to have to tweak for those customer's to really adopt and execute on their IT strategy? >> So when you're in customer conversations, and this is a question for both of you, so, Craig, we'll start with you. When we look at the data problem, it goes all the way up to the C level, right? To the boardroom because there's a tremendous amount of value that needs to be unlocked there. When you're having these conversations, especially the capabilities, combined power that Cisco and IBM bring together, where are these conversations with customers? Are you starting at that C-suite or are you talking with the guys and the gals with the feet on the street that are living in this chaotic heterogeneity? I think, that Stu called it. (Craig laughing) Where do those conversations begin, Craig? >> I think it is at the C-suite for a large portion of it, at least the direction maybe comes from the C-suite. We need to do something different than how we did. Who could we talk to? Who can we bring in to have that conversation? Kind of may move down to the teams that are closer to the ground. And you start hearing themes that become kind of common. How do I deal with security? How do I deal with data privacy? Where I have those concerns. How do I determine what applications and workloads I should move where, and what's the most cost-effective place for those to run? So I think we can bring that expertise, we can bring that guidance, that consultative approach to those discussions with the customer. Not only us but with the Cisco team as well to really start getting to the point where we believe the offerings we have to move you to a hybrid cloud, migration path, or this type of offering, it does hit that 80%, and then we can hone in on, but what is that 20% that's unique for your business that we have to figure out maybe uniquely from a technology standpoint, from services we offer, from the SLA, whatever it would be, to really get them there. But I think it starts more at the top but works its way down. My view, anyway. >> I completely agree. The conversation starts at the C-suite, but that tends to be relatively generic, right? In terms of this is our strategy, and then it gets passed down, and you get into that 20% which is the heavy lifting as soon as you get down to the next layer. But it does start from the top down, and it has to these days. >> And I distinctly remember one customer we had where we did sit in a room. It started from the top and we had lots of smart people in the room, and we had three possibilities sketched out on the whiteboard. Which one do we think really solves the problem here? Because there are multiple paths to go to get there, and we had to pick the path we think makes the most sense, and then convince the customer this is the right way to go and get them bought in. >> One of the things that if you look at this, the transformation that people are going through, in many ways that moved to from a capex model to an opex model is one of the things, the promise of the cloud. But you talk about struggles in the C-suite. The CFO used to say, here's your budget for the year, and I can understand that, and, wait, this is going to be uncertain and I'm not sure what that bill's going to be next month or a quarter from now, or how do I do my planning? Give us a little bit of insight into that transformation. >> I tell you, it's uncertain as a service provider too. (laughing) There's two sides to that. They just say, well, I want an SLA and I want a service, and I want it to go infinitely up and infinitely down. You have to sort of meet, de-risk each side, where you pick your battles, and get to a point where the customer believes the service is valuable from a business standpoint, from a productivity standpoint, from hitting the objectives that they set down from the C-suite, and you hopefully have a good partnering relationship, triangular, customer, partner, service provider, where you're having that ongoing dialogue, you're delivering on the value, you're helping to expand that, and those risk issues go away over time. But the proof is always in the first six, 12 months of delivery. >> I'll borrow your phrase of meeting customers where they're at, right? This idea of consumption. I think a lot of customers are interested in it, but there's a cost to that financial flexibility. And so maybe it starts at a zero to a hundred flexibility, and it comes quickly down based on what you determine jointly between the three of us is really the right solution. That's really where it's at in this as a service model. It makes a lot more sense, it's easier to do, and it's purely software, but as soon as you're on-premise, that becomes a slightly more challenging conversation and that's what this partnership does day in and day out. So as we wrap this up, one thing I kind of want to do is click in to the customer experience a little bit more. You were talking, Craig, about a lot of companies have moved the easy stuff, right? They've pushed that easy button. They have a hybrid multi-cloud, a strategy that's effective for 20% of their business. For the other 80%, are you saying where, I mean, in any company, in any industry, Stu, we know this, as we talk to companies all over the globe, data is the life blood of any organization that has transformative power. But, I'm curious, in that journey to get a company from 20%, to 30%, to 40%, where they're actually starting to have to tackle those more complex workloads, are you seeing any industries in particular that are, I don't want to say early adopters, but are understanding the value that IBM Services and Cisco are bringing together in order to facilitate the speed at which they have to transform? >> So I would say our customer base is cross industry. What I would say is the industry that seems to have the most questions, the most concerns, the most reservations is the financial services industry. And there they have to be very specific around what's my data privacy issue, where am I at with security? I got to tell you, Cisco has some very strong customers in that space that really help in that partnership, particularly around the financial services industry. They're the toughest ones, I think, at this point, from my standpoint. >> Yeah, I mean financial services, obviously where you and I engage a lot, but I would say the thing that's most exciting to me is that it's not just financial services. We're seeing it across the board. I wouldn't say there's an industry outside of, industries or companies that are born in the cloud model, but the more, legacy's the wrong word, but traditional business models, they're all shifting, because they have to to remain relevant. >> Exactly, they have to. Well, that just means plenty of opportunities-- >> Absolutely. >> For IBM Services and Cisco. Gentlemen, thank you so much for chatting with Stu and me on the program today. We appreciate it and congratulations, you're now CUBE alumni, so you each get a reward. It's like a gold start but it's a blue CUBE sticker. >> Awesome, and I would like to thank Cisco for being a Platinum Partner here at IBM Think this week. We appreciate them being a partner here in the partner showcase. >> Yeah, and then for the folks that are here the show, please come by, get your free pair of socks, and you can get signed up to win special prizes. >> Special prizes and socks. Wow, you guys, that's-- >> What more could you want? >> I'm speechless. Thanks so much Craig and Jeff, appreciate your time. For Stu Miniman, and I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from day one coverage of IBM Think 2019. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Boston. It's theCUBE. Covering IBM Chief Data Officer's Summit. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of IBM's CDO here in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Paul Gillen. We're joined by Beth Rudden. She is distinguished engineer, analytics at IBM. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Beth. >> Thank you. >> So your background, you have a master's in anthropology and in classics and Greek. You're a former archeologist. And now here you are, distinguished engineer. There's only 672 in all of IBM. How did you, what are you doing here? (laughs) >> I think that I love data. I love that data represents human behavior and I think that understanding that puzzle and being able to tell that story is something that we need to do more of. And we need to understand how all of the data fits together and how all of the information is created and all the wisdom is created. And that takes a lot of effort from a lot of people and it involves storytelling. I think that 75,000 years of human history, we are always understanding conflict and resolution through storytelling. And I think that if we can have evidence for that using our data, and looking at our data in the business world, as it reflects our strategy, instead of force-fitting our data into our strategy. So I think that that's part of the change that we need to look at it, and I think with the, I would say, second or third hype curve of AI and what we're doing with AI and cognitive today, it really is being able to bind philosophy and psychology and look at it from a computer science perspective. And that's new. >> That's interesting. And we were just speaking with Inderpal earlier about the background that he sees CDOs coming from, and he talked very little about technology. It was all about human so-called soft skills. Are you finding that the CDO role is evolving in a less technical direction over time? >> Absolutely. And I think that, you know, when you're starting to look for outcomes, and as outcomes as they relate to our business, and as they relate to our clients and our customers, we have to be able to have a very diverse and inclusive viewpoint. And we have to be incredibly transparent. I think that is something that we are continuing to do within IBM, where we are really looking at how do we differentiate ourselves based on our expertise and based on our human capital. >> So it's differentiating yourself as an employer of choice. >> Absolutely. >> And attracting, recruiting or training the talent. >> 100%, yes. >> But then also being the expert that your clients come to. So yeah, just... >> So IBM has, you know, we have career frameworks. We have career paths. I was part of a team that created the data science profession at IBM and one of the things that we're looking at, as a differentiating feature, is that we really want people to continuously learn, continuously adapt, develop themselves, develop their skills, because that is our differentiating feature. And I think that, you know, when our clients meet our people they love our people. And this is such an amazing company to be a part of. We have a long history. 107 year history of being one of the most diverse and inclusive companies. 1899, we hired the first black and female person, and in 1953 we had equal opportunity rights 10 years before the Civil Rights Act. So I think that all of these things, you know, lead up to a company that shows that we can adapt and transform. And being an acting CDO for the largest IT system in IBM right now, we are doing amazing things because we are really investing in our people. We are investing in giving them that guidance, that career track. And allowing people to be themselves. Their true selves. >> You're speaking of Global Technology Services Operation, which is currently undergoing a transformation. >> That's right. >> What does the outcome look like? How do you envision the end point? >> I think that I envision the end point, we are in the process of developing our IBM Services Academy and it is a continuous learning platform for Bands Two through general managers. And, you know, one of the stories I like to tell is my general manager who I'm working for on this. You know, she believes so strongly in making sure that everybody has access to all of the available education and everybody is using that type of education and we are looking at transforming how we are measuring what we are doing to incentivize the behaviors that we want to see. And the behaviors that we are looking for are people who are helping other people, and making sure that we are continually being the premier leader of the intellectual brainchild of what we are doing for keeping us in the AI game, in the cognitive game, and making sure that we are understanding every single aspect of that as it relates to our transformation. >> So you're actually tracking and measuring how colleagues collaborate with each other. >> 100%. >> How do you do that? >> You look for words like we and team and you look for people who are enabling other people. And that's something that we can see in the data. Data are artifacts of human behavior. We can see that in our data. We are looking at unstructured data, we are looking at structured data. We are taking this in and we're taking it to what I would call a new level, so that we can see what we are doing, who our people are, and we are able to look at how many of the people are enabling other people and empowering other people. And sometimes this is called the glue, or glue work. I think that there is even a baseball reference for like a glue man. I think that we need to champion people who are enabling and empowering everybody to succeed. >> And are those typically the unsung heroes, would you say? >> Yes. 100%. And I want to sing the hero's song for those unsung heroes. And I want to make sure that those people are noticed and recognized, but I also want to make sure that people know that IBM is this amazing company with a very long history of making sure that we are singing the unsung hero's song. >> But how do you measure the outcome of that? There's got to be a big business bottom line benefit. What does that look like? >> Absolutely. I think that it always starts with our clients. Everything that we do starts with our clients. And in GTS, we have people, we have five to seven year relationships with our clients and customers. These are deep relationships, and they interact with our humans every single day. And we are the men and women who, you know, design and create and run and manage the foundational systems of the world. And every single person, like you cannot book an airline, you cannot pay your bill, you cannot do that, anything, without touching somebody in IBM. We are investing in those people, because those are who is interfacing with our clients and customers, and that is the most important thing to us right now. >> One of the things we were talking about earlier is bringing more women and underrepresented minorities and men into IBM, and into other industries too. So how, we know the technology industry has a very bad reputation, deservedly so, for being a bro culture. How are you personally combating it, and then how do you do it from an institutional perspective? >> Yeah. We have so many programs that are really looking at how we can take and champion diversity. I was very honored to walk into the Best of IBM with my husband a couple years ago, and he looks around and he goes, this is like a UN convention. He's like, you guys are so global. You have so much diversity. And you know, that viewpoint is something that, it's why I work for IBM. It's why I love IBM. I have the ability to understand different cultures, I have the ability to travel around the world. We have, you can work day and night. (laughs) You know, you can talk to India in morning and Australia in the afternoon. It is just, to me, you know, IBM operates in 172 different countries. We have the global infrastructure to be able to handle the type of global teams that we are building. >> When you look at the skills that will be needed in the future as organizations, big data becomes infused into the organization, how will the skill needs change? >> To me, I think that the skill needs are always going to continuously transform. We're always going to get new technology. Most of my data scientists, you know, I really push Python, I really push R, but I think that it's the will more than the skill. I think that it is how people have the attitude and how people collaborate. And that is more important, I think, than some of the skills. And a lot of people, you know, when they are performing data science or performing data engineering, they need to believe that they are doing something that is going to succeed. And that is will. And that's what we, we have seen a huge surge in oral and written communications which is not a hard skill. It's a soft skill. But to me, there's nothing soft about those skills. It takes courage and we have built resiliency because we have had the courage to really enable and empower people to get those types of skills. And that's a lot of where our education is going. >> So that's really an interesting point here. So are you hiring a self-selected group of people, or are you bringing in super smart people who maybe are not as skilled in those areas and bringing them into the culture. I mean, what's coming first here? >> Yeah. I think that we are, our culture is strong. IBM's brand is strong. Our culture is strong. We are investing in the people that we have. And we are investing in, you know, our humans in order to make sure that the people who already have that culture have the skills that they need in order to learn. And that understanding of going from disequilibrium to equilibrium to disequilibrium to learn, that's what we want to teach, so that any of the new technology, any of the new skills, or any of the new platforms that we need to learn, it's something that's inherent with people being able to learn how to learn. >> Beth, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Yes. >> It was great to have you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Paul Gillen, we will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of IBM's CDO coming up in just a little bit. (light music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Hi everybody, Dave Vellante here with Stu Miniman. We're here to unpack the recent acquisition that IBM announced of Red Hat. $34 billon acquisition financed with cash and debt. And Stu, let me get us started. Why would IBM spend $34 billion on Red Hat? Its largest acquisition to date of a software company had been Cognos at $5 billion. This is a massive move. IBM's Ginni Rometty called this a game changer. And essentially, my take is that they're pivoting. Their public cloud strategy was not living up to expectations. They're pivoting to hybrid cloud. Their hybrid cloud strategy was limited because they didn't really have strong developer mojo, their Bluemix PaaS layer had really failed. And so they really needed to make a big move here, and this is a big move. And so IBM's intent, and Ginni Rometty laid out the strategy, is to become number one in hybrid cloud, the undisputed leader. And so we'll talk about that. But Stu, from Red Hat's perspective, it's a company you're very close to and you've observed for a number of years, Red Hat was on a path touting a $5 billion revenue plan, what happened? Why would they capitulate? >> Yeah Dave, on the face of it, Red Hat says that IBM will help it further its mission. We just listened to Arvin Krishna from IBM talking with Paul Cormier at Red Hat, and they talked about how they were gonna keep the Red Hat brand alive. IBM has a long history with open source. As you mentioned, I've been working with Red Hat, gosh, almost 20 years now, and we all think back to two decades ago, when IBM put a billion dollars into Linux and really pushed on open source. So these are not strangers, they know each other really well. Part of me looks at these from a cynicism standpoint. Somebody on Twitter said that Red Hat is hitting it at the peak of Kubernetes hype. And therefore, they're gonna get maximum valuation for where the stock is. Red Hat has positioned itself rather well in the hybrid cloud world, really the multicloud world, when you go to AWS, when you go to the Microsoft Azure environment, you talk to Google. Open source fits into that environment and Red Hat products specifically tie into those environments. Remember last year, in Boston, there's a video of Andy Jassy talking about a partnership with Red Hat. This year, up on stage, Microsoft with Azure partnering deeply with Red Hat. So Red Hat has done a nice job of moving beyond Linux. But Linux is still at its core. There definitely is concern that the operating system is less important today than it was in the past. It was actually Red Hat's acquisition of CoreOS for about $250 million earlier this year that really put a fine point on it. CoreOS was launched to be just enough Linux to live in this kind of container and Kubernetes world. And Red Hat, of course, like we've seen often, the company that is saying, "We're going to kill you", well you go and you buy them. So Red Hat wasn't looking to kill IBM, but definitely we've seen this trend of softwares eating the world, and open sources eating software. So IBM, hopefully, is a embracing that open source ethos. I have to say, Dave, for myself, a little sad to see the news. Red Hat being the paragon of open source. The one that we always go to for winning in this space. So we hope that they will be able to keep their culture. We've had a chance, many times, to interview Jim Whitehurst, really respected CEO. One that we think should stay involved in IBM deeply for this. But if they can keep and grow the culture, then it's a win for Red Hat. But still sorting through everything, and it feels like a little bit of a capitulation that Red Hat decides to sell off rather than keep its mission of getting to five billion and beyond, and be the leading company in the space. >> Well I think it is a bit of a capitulation. Because look, Red Hat is roughly a $3 billion company, growing at 20% a year, had that vision of five billion Its stock, in June, had hit $175. So while IBM's paying a 60% premium off of its current price, it's really only about 8 or 9% higher than where Red Hat was just a few months ago. And so I think, there's an old saying on Wall Street, the first disappointment is never the last. And so I think that Red Hat was looking at a long slog. They reduced expectations, they guided lower, and they were looking at the 90-day shot clock. And this probably wasn't going to be a good 'nother couple of years for Red Hat. And they're selling at the peak of the market, or roughly the peak of the market. They probably figured, hey, the window is closing, potentially, to do this deal. Maybe not such a bad time to get out, as opposed to trying to slog it out. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right. When you look at where Red Hat is winning, they've done great in OpenStack but there's not a lot of excitement around OpenStack. Kubernetes was talked about lots in the announcement, in the briefings, and everything like that. I was actually surprised you didn't hear as much about just the core business. You would think you would be hearing about all the companies using Red Hat Enterprise Linux around the world. That ratable model that Red Hat really has a nice base of their environment. It was talking more about the future and where Kubernetes, and cloud-native, and all of that development will go. IBM has done middling okay with developers. They have a strong history in middleware, which is where a lot of the Red Hat development activity has been heading. It was interesting to hear, on the call, it's like, oh well, what about the customers that are using IBM too say, "Oh well, if customers want that, we'll still do it." What about IBM with Cloud Foundry? Well absolutely, if customers wanna still be doing it, they'll do that. So you don't hear the typical, "Oh well, we're going to take Red Hat technology "and push it through all of IBM's channel." This is in the IBM cloud group, and that's really their focus, as it is. I feel like they're almost limiting the potential for growth for Red Hat. >> Well so IBM's gonna pay for this, as I said, it's an all cash deal. IBM's got about 14 and a half billion dollars on the balance sheet. And so they gotta take out some debt. S&P downgraded IBM's rating from an A+ to an A. And so the ratings agency is going to be watching IBM's growth. IBM said this will add 200 basis points of revenue growth over the five year CAGR. But that means we're really not gonna see that for six, seven years. And Ginni Rometty stressed this is not a backend loaded thing. We're gonna find revenue opportunities through cross-selling and go-to-market. But we have a lot of questions on this deal, Stu. And I wanna sorta get into that. So first of all, again, I think it's the right move for IBM. It's a big move for IBM. Rumors were that Cisco might have been interested. I'm not sure if Microsoft was in the mix. So IBM went for it and, as I said, didn't pay a huge premium over where their stock was back in June. Now of course, back in June, the market was kind of inflated. But nonetheless, the strategy now is to go multi-cloud. The number one in the multi-cloud world. What is that multi-cloud leadership? How are we gonna measure multi-cloud? Is IBM, now, the steward of open source for the industry? To your point earlier, you're sad, Stu, I know. >> You bring up a great point. So I think back to three years ago, with the Wikibon we put together, our true private cloud forecast. And when we built that, we said, "Okay, here's the hardware, and software, "and services in private cloud." And we said, "Well let's try to measure hybrid cloud." And we spent like, six months looking at this. And it's like, well what is hybrid cloud? I've got my public cloud pieces, and I've got my private cloud pieces. Well there's some management layers and things that go in between. Do I count things like PaaS? So do you save people like Pivotal and Red Hat's OpenShift? Are those hybrid cloud? Well but they live either here or there. They're not usually necessarily helping with the migration and moving around. I can live in multiple environments. So Linux and containers live in the public, they live in the private, they don't just fly around in the ether. So measuring hybrid cloud, I think is really tough. Does IBM plus Red Hat make them a top leader in this hybrid multi-cloud world? Absolutely, they should be mentioned a lot more. When I go to the cloud shows, the public cloud shows, IBM isn't one of the first peak companies you think about. Red Hat absolutely is in the conversation. It actually should raise the profile of Red Hat because, while Red Hat plays in a lot of the conversations, they're also not the first company that comes to mind when you talk about them. Microsoft, middle of hybrid cloud. Oracle, positioning their applications in this multi-cloud world. Of course you can't talk about cloud, any cloud, without talking about Amazon's position in the marketplace. And SAS is the real place that it plays. So IBM, one of their biggest strengths is that they have applications. Dave, you know the space really well. What does this mean vis-à-vis Oracle? >> Well let's see, so Oracle, I think, is looking at this, saying, alright. I would say IBM is Oracle's number one competitor in the enterprise. You got SAP, and Amazon obviously in cloud, et cetera, et cetera. But let me put it this way, I think Oracle is IBM's number one competitor. Whether Oracle sees it that way or not. But they're clearly similar companies, in terms of their vertical integration. I think Oracle's looking at this, saying, hey. There's no way Oracle was gonna spend $34 billion on Red Hat. And I don't think they were interested in really spending any money on the alternatives. But does this put Canonical and SUSE in play? I think Oracle's gonna look at this and sort of message to its customers, "We're already number one in our world in hybrid cloud." But I wanna come back to the deal. I'm actually optimistic on the deal, from the standpoint of, I think IBM had to make a big move like this. Because it was largely just bumping along. But I'm not buying the narrative from Jim Whitehurst that, "Well we had to do this to scale." Why couldn't they scale with partners? I just don't understand that. They're open. This is largely, to me, a services deal. This is a big boon for IBM Services business. In fact, Jim Whitehurst, and Ginni even said that today on the financial analyst call, Jim said, "Our big constraint was "services scale and the industry expertise there." So what was that constraint? Why couldn't they partner with Accenture, and Ernie Young, and PwC, and the likes of Deloitte, to scale and preserve greater independence? And I think that the reason is, IBM sees an opportunity and they're going hard after it. So how will, or will, IBM change its posture relative to some of those big services plays? >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right there. Because Red Hat should've been able to scale there. I wonder if it's just that all of those big service system integrators, they're working really closely with the public cloud providers. And while Red Hat was a piece of it, it wasn't the big piece of it. And therefore, I'm worried on the application migration. I'm worried about the adoption of infrastructure as a service. And Red Hat might be a piece in the puzzle, but it wasn't the driver for that change, and the move, and the modernization activities that were going on. That being said, OpenShift was a great opportunity. It plays in a lot of these environments. It'll be really interesting to see. And a huge opportunity for IBM to take and accelerate that business. From a services standpoint, do you think it'll change their position with regard to the SIs? >> I don't. I think IBM's gonna try to present, preserve Red Hat as an independent company. I would love to see IBM do what EMC did years ago with VMware, and float some portion of the company, and truly have it at least be quasi-independent. With an independent operating structure, and reporting structure from the standpoint of a public company. That would really signal to the partners that IBM's serious about maintaining independence. >> Yeah now, look Dave, IBM has said they will keep the brand, they will keep the products. Of all the companies that would buy Red Hat, I'm not super worried about kinda polluting open source. It was kinda nice that Jim Whitehurst would say, if it's a Red Hat thing, it is 100% open source. And IBM plays in a lot of these environments. A friend of mine on Twitter was like, "Oh hey, IBM's coming back to OpenDaylight or things like that." Because they'd been part of Cloud Foundry, they'd been part of OpenDaylight. There's certain ones that they are part of it and then they step back. So IBM, credibly open source space, if they can let Red Hat people still do their thing. But the concern is that lots of other companies are gonna be calling up project leads, and contributors in the open source community that might've felt that Red Hat was ideal place to live, and now they might go get their paycheck somewhere else. >> There's rumors that Jim Whitehurst eventually will take over IBM. I don't see it, I just don't think Jim Whitehurst wants to run Z mainframes and Services. That doesn't make any sense to me. Ginni's getting to the age where IBM CEOs typically retire, within the next couple of years. And so I think that it's more likely they'll bring in somebody from internally. Whether it's Arvin or, more likely, Jim Kavanaugh 'cause he's got the relationship with Wall Street. Let's talk about winners and losers. It's just, again, a huge strategic move for IBM. Frankly, I see the big winners is IBM and Red Hat. Because as we described before, IBM was struggling with its execution, and Red Hat was just basically, finally hitting a wall after 60-plus quarters of growth. And so the question is, will its customers win? The big concern I have for the customers is, IBM has this nasty habit of raising prices when it does acquisitions. We've seen it a number of times. And so you keep an eye on it, if I were a Red Hat customer, I'd be locking in some attractive pricing, longterm. And I would also be calling Mark Shuttleworth, and get his take, and get that Amdahl coffee cup on my desk, as it were. Other winners and losers, your thoughts on some of the partners, and the ecosystem. >> Yeah, when I look at this and say, compare it to Microsoft buying GitHub. We're all wondering, is this a real game changer for IBM? And if they embrace the direction. It's not like Red Hat culture is going to just take over IBM. In the Q&A with IBM, they said, "Will there be influence? Absolutely. "Is this a marriage of equals? No. "We're buying Red Hat and we will be "communicating and working together on this" But you can see how this can help IBM, as to the direction. Open source and the multi-cloud world is a huge, important piece. Cisco, I think, could've made a move like this. I would've been a little bit more worried about maintaining open source purity, if it was somebody like Cisco. There's other acquisitions, you mentioned Canonical and SUSE are out there. If somebody wanted to do this, the role of the operating system is much less important than it is today. You wouldn't have seen Microsoft up on stage at Red Hat Summit this year if Windows was the driver for Microsoft going forward. The cloud companies out there, to be honest, it really cements their presence out there. I don't think AWS is sitting there saying, "Oh jeez, we need to worry." They're saying, "Well IBM's capitulated." Realizing that, "Sure they have their own cloud, "and their environment, but they're going to be "successful only when they live in, "and around, and amongst our platform of Amazon." And Azure's gonna feel the same way, and same about Google. So there's that dynamic there. >> What about VMware? >> So I think VMware absolutely is a loser here. When I went back to say one of the biggest strengths of IBM is that they have applications. When you talk about Red Hat, they're really working, not only at the infrastructure layer, but working with developers, and working in that environment. The biggest weakness of VMware, is they don't own the applications. I'm paying licenses to VMware. And in a multi-cloud world, why do I need VMware? As opposed to Red Hat and IBM, or Amazon, or Microsoft, have a much more natural affinity for the applications and the data in the future. >> And what about the arms dealers? HPE and Dell, in particular, and of course, Lenovo. Wouldn't they prefer Red Hat being independent? >> Absolutely, they would prefer that they're gonna stay independent. As long as it doesn't seem to customers that IBM is trying to twist everybody's arms, and get you on to Z, or Power, or something like that. And continues to allow partnerships with the HPEs, Dells, Lenovos of the world. I think they'll be okay. So I'd say middling to impact. But absolutely, Red Hat, as an independent, was really the Switzerland of the marketplace. >> Ginni Rometty had sited three growth areas. One was Red Hat scale and go-to-market. I think there's no question about that. IBM could help with Red Hat's go-to-market. The other growth vector was IBM's products and software on the Red Hat stack. I'm less optimistic there, because I think that it's the strength of IBM's products, in and of themselves, that are largely gonna determine that success. And then the third was Services. I think IBM Services is a huge winner here. Having the bat phone into Red Hat is a big win for IBM Services. They can now differentiate. And this is where I think it's gonna be really interesting to see the posture of Accenture and those other big guys. I think IBM can now somewhat differentiate from those guys, saying, "Well wait, "we have exclusive, or not exclusive, "but inside baseball access to Red Hat." So that's gonna be an interesting dynamic to watch. Your final thoughts here. >> Yeah, yeah, Dave, absolutely. On the product integration piece, the question would be, you're gonna have OpenAPIs. This is all gonna work with the entire ecosystem. Couldn't IBM have done more of this without having to pay $34 billion and put things together? Services, absolutely, will be the measurement as to whether this is successful or not. That's probably gonna be the line out of them in financials, that we're gonna have to look at. Because, Dave, going back to, what is hybrid, and how do we measure it? What is success for this whole acquisition down the line? Any final pieces to what we should watch and how we measure that? >> So I think that, first of all, IBM's really good with acquisitions, so keep an eye on that. I'm not so concerned about the debt. IBM's got strong free cash flow. Red Hat throws off a billion dollars a year in free cash flow. This should be an accretive acquisition. In terms of operating profits, it might take a couple of years. But certainly from a standpoint of free cash flow and revenue growth, I think it's gonna help near-term. If it doesn't, that's something that's really important to watch. And then the last thing is culture. You know a lot of people at these companies. I know a lot of people at these companies. Look, the Red Hat culture drinks the Kool-Aid of open. You know this. Do they see IBM as the steward of open, and are they gonna face a brain drain? That's why it's no coincidence that Whitehurst and Rometty were down in North Carolina today. And Arvin and Paul Cormier were in Boston today. This is where a lot of employees are for Red Hat. And they're messaging. And so that's very, very important. IBM's not foolish. So that, to me, Stu, is a huge thing, is the culture. Dave, IBM is no longer the navy suit with the red tie, and everybody buttoned down. People are concerned about like, oh, IBM's gonna give the Red Hat people a dress code. Sure, the typical IBMer is not in a graphic tee and a hoodie. But, Dave, you've seen such a transformation in IBM over the last couple of decades. >> Yeah, definitely. And I think this really does, in my view, cement, now, the legacy of Ginny Rometty, which was kinda hanging on Watson, and Cognitive, and this sort of bespoke set of capabilities, and the SoftLayer acquisition. It, now, all comes together. This is a major pivot by IBM. I think, strategically, it's the right move for IBM. And I think, if in fact, IBM can maintain Red Hat's independence and that posture, and maintain its culture and employee base, I think it does change the game for IBM. So I would say, smart move, good move. Expensive but probably worth it. >> Yeah, where else would they have put their money, Dave? >> Yeah, right. Alright, Stu, thank you very much for unpacking this announcement. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (mellow electronic music)