>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and E T R. This is breaking analysis with Dave Valante. >>Making technology predictions in 2022 was tricky business, especially if you were projecting the performance of markets or identifying I P O prospects and making binary forecast on data AI and the macro spending climate and other related topics in enterprise tech 2022, of course was characterized by a seesaw economy where central banks were restructuring their balance sheets. The war on Ukraine fueled inflation supply chains were a mess. And the unintended consequences of of forced march to digital and the acceleration still being sorted out. Hello and welcome to this week's weekly on Cube Insights powered by E T R. In this breaking analysis, we continue our annual tradition of transparently grading last year's enterprise tech predictions. And you may or may not agree with our self grading system, but look, we're gonna give you the data and you can draw your own conclusions and tell you what, tell us what you think. >>All right, let's get right to it. So our first prediction was tech spending increases by 8% in 2022. And as we exited 2021 CIOs, they were optimistic about their digital transformation plans. You know, they rushed to make changes to their business and were eager to sharpen their focus and continue to iterate on their digital business models and plug the holes that they, the, in the learnings that they had. And so we predicted that 8% rise in enterprise tech spending, which looked pretty good until Ukraine and the Fed decided that, you know, had to rush and make up for lost time. We kind of nailed the momentum in the energy sector, but we can't give ourselves too much credit for that layup. And as of October, Gartner had it spending growing at just over 5%. I think it was 5.1%. So we're gonna take a C plus on this one and, and move on. >>Our next prediction was basically kind of a slow ground ball. The second base, if I have to be honest, but we felt it was important to highlight that security would remain front and center as the number one priority for organizations in 2022. As is our tradition, you know, we try to up the degree of difficulty by specifically identifying companies that are gonna benefit from these trends. So we highlighted some possible I P O candidates, which of course didn't pan out. S NQ was on our radar. The company had just had to do another raise and they recently took a valuation hit and it was a down round. They raised 196 million. So good chunk of cash, but, but not the i p O that we had predicted Aqua Securities focus on containers and cloud native. That was a trendy call and we thought maybe an M SS P or multiple managed security service providers like Arctic Wolf would I p o, but no way that was happening in the crummy market. >>Nonetheless, we think these types of companies, they're still faring well as the talent shortage in security remains really acute, particularly in the sort of mid-size and small businesses that often don't have a sock Lacework laid off 20% of its workforce in 2022. And CO C e o Dave Hatfield left the company. So that I p o didn't, didn't happen. It was probably too early for Lacework. Anyway, meanwhile you got Netscope, which we've cited as strong in the E T R data as particularly in the emerging technology survey. And then, you know, I lumia holding its own, you know, we never liked that 7 billion price tag that Okta paid for auth zero, but we loved the TAM expansion strategy to target developers beyond sort of Okta's enterprise strength. But we gotta take some points off of the failure thus far of, of Okta to really nail the integration and the go to market model with azero and build, you know, bring that into the, the, the core Okta. >>So the focus on endpoint security that was a winner in 2022 is CrowdStrike led that charge with others holding their own, not the least of which was Palo Alto Networks as it continued to expand beyond its core network security and firewall business, you know, through acquisition. So overall we're gonna give ourselves an A minus for this relatively easy call, but again, we had some specifics associated with it to make it a little tougher. And of course we're watching ve very closely this this coming year in 2023. The vendor consolidation trend. You know, according to a recent Palo Alto network survey with 1300 SecOps pros on average organizations have more than 30 tools to manage security tools. So this is a logical way to optimize cost consolidating vendors and consolidating redundant vendors. The E T R data shows that's clearly a trend that's on the upswing. >>Now moving on, a big theme of 2020 and 2021 of course was remote work and hybrid work and new ways to work and return to work. So we predicted in 2022 that hybrid work models would become the dominant protocol, which clearly is the case. We predicted that about 33% of the workforce would come back to the office in 2022 in September. The E T R data showed that figure was at 29%, but organizations expected that 32% would be in the office, you know, pretty much full-time by year end. That hasn't quite happened, but we were pretty close with the projection, so we're gonna take an A minus on this one. Now, supply chain disruption was another big theme that we felt would carry through 2022. And sure that sounds like another easy one, but as is our tradition, again we try to put some binary metrics around our predictions to put some meat in the bone, so to speak, and and allow us than you to say, okay, did it come true or not? >>So we had some data that we presented last year and supply chain issues impacting hardware spend. We said at the time, you can see this on the left hand side of this chart, the PC laptop demand would remain above pre covid levels, which would reverse a decade of year on year declines, which I think started in around 2011, 2012. Now, while demand is down this year pretty substantially relative to 2021, I D C has worldwide unit shipments for PCs at just over 300 million for 22. If you go back to 2019 and you're looking at around let's say 260 million units shipped globally, you know, roughly, so, you know, pretty good call there. Definitely much higher than pre covid levels. But so what you might be asking why the B, well, we projected that 30% of customers would replace security appliances with cloud-based services and that more than a third would replace their internal data center server and storage hardware with cloud services like 30 and 40% respectively. >>And we don't have explicit survey data on exactly these metrics, but anecdotally we see this happening in earnest. And we do have some data that we're showing here on cloud adoption from ET R'S October survey where the midpoint of workloads running in the cloud is around 34% and forecast, as you can see, to grow steadily over the next three years. So this, well look, this is not, we understand it's not a one-to-one correlation with our prediction, but it's a pretty good bet that we were right, but we gotta take some points off, we think for the lack of unequivocal proof. Cause again, we always strive to make our predictions in ways that can be measured as accurate or not. Is it binary? Did it happen, did it not? Kind of like an O K R and you know, we strive to provide data as proof and in this case it's a bit fuzzy. >>We have to admit that although we're pretty comfortable that the prediction was accurate. And look, when you make an hard forecast, sometimes you gotta pay the price. All right, next, we said in 2022 that the big four cloud players would generate 167 billion in IS and PaaS revenue combining for 38% market growth. And our current forecasts are shown here with a comparison to our January, 2022 figures. So coming into this year now where we are today, so currently we expect 162 billion in total revenue and a 33% growth rate. Still very healthy, but not on our mark. So we think a w s is gonna miss our predictions by about a billion dollars, not, you know, not bad for an 80 billion company. So they're not gonna hit that expectation though of getting really close to a hundred billion run rate. We thought they'd exit the year, you know, closer to, you know, 25 billion a quarter and we don't think they're gonna get there. >>Look, we pretty much nailed Azure even though our prediction W was was correct about g Google Cloud platform surpassing Alibaba, Alibaba, we way overestimated the performance of both of those companies. So we're gonna give ourselves a C plus here and we think, yeah, you might think it's a little bit harsh, we could argue for a B minus to the professor, but the misses on GCP and Alibaba we think warrant a a self penalty on this one. All right, let's move on to our prediction about Supercloud. We said it becomes a thing in 2022 and we think by many accounts it has, despite the naysayers, we're seeing clear evidence that the concept of a layer of value add that sits above and across clouds is taking shape. And on this slide we showed just some of the pickup in the industry. I mean one of the most interesting is CloudFlare, the biggest supercloud antagonist. >>Charles Fitzgerald even predicted that no vendor would ever use the term in their marketing. And that would be proof if that happened that Supercloud was a thing and he said it would never happen. Well CloudFlare has, and they launched their version of Supercloud at their developer week. Chris Miller of the register put out a Supercloud block diagram, something else that Charles Fitzgerald was, it was was pushing us for, which is rightly so, it was a good call on his part. And Chris Miller actually came up with one that's pretty good at David Linthicum also has produced a a a A block diagram, kind of similar, David uses the term metacloud and he uses the term supercloud kind of interchangeably to describe that trend. And so we we're aligned on that front. Brian Gracely has covered the concept on the popular cloud podcast. Berkeley launched the Sky computing initiative. >>You read through that white paper and many of the concepts highlighted in the Supercloud 3.0 community developed definition align with that. Walmart launched a platform with many of the supercloud salient attributes. So did Goldman Sachs, so did Capital One, so did nasdaq. So you know, sorry you can hate the term, but very clearly the evidence is gathering for the super cloud storm. We're gonna take an a plus on this one. Sorry, haters. Alright, let's talk about data mesh in our 21 predictions posts. We said that in the 2020s, 75% of large organizations are gonna re-architect their big data platforms. So kind of a decade long prediction. We don't like to do that always, but sometimes it's warranted. And because it was a longer term prediction, we, at the time in, in coming into 22 when we were evaluating our 21 predictions, we took a grade of incomplete because the sort of decade long or majority of the decade better part of the decade prediction. >>So last year, earlier this year, we said our number seven prediction was data mesh gains momentum in 22. But it's largely confined and narrow data problems with limited scope as you can see here with some of the key bullets. So there's a lot of discussion in the data community about data mesh and while there are an increasing number of examples, JP Morgan Chase, Intuit, H S P C, HelloFresh, and others that are completely rearchitecting parts of their data platform completely rearchitecting entire data platforms is non-trivial. There are organizational challenges, there're data, data ownership, debates, technical considerations, and in particular two of the four fundamental data mesh principles that the, the need for a self-service infrastructure and federated computational governance are challenging. Look, democratizing data and facilitating data sharing creates conflicts with regulatory requirements around data privacy. As such many organizations are being really selective with their data mesh implementations and hence our prediction of narrowing the scope of data mesh initiatives. >>I think that was right on J P M C is a good example of this, where you got a single group within a, within a division narrowly implementing the data mesh architecture. They're using a w s, they're using data lakes, they're using Amazon Glue, creating a catalog and a variety of other techniques to meet their objectives. They kind of automating data quality and it was pretty well thought out and interesting approach and I think it's gonna be made easier by some of the announcements that Amazon made at the recent, you know, reinvent, particularly trying to eliminate ET t l, better connections between Aurora and Redshift and, and, and better data sharing the data clean room. So a lot of that is gonna help. Of course, snowflake has been on this for a while now. Many other companies are facing, you know, limitations as we said here and this slide with their Hadoop data platforms. They need to do new, some new thinking around that to scale. HelloFresh is a really good example of this. Look, the bottom line is that organizations want to get more value from data and having a centralized, highly specialized teams that own the data problem, it's been a barrier and a blocker to success. The data mesh starts with organizational considerations as described in great detail by Ash Nair of Warner Brothers. So take a listen to this clip. >>Yeah, so when people think of Warner Brothers, you always think of like the movie studio, but we're more than that, right? I mean, you think of H B O, you think of t n t, you think of C N N. We have 30 plus brands in our portfolio and each have their own needs. So the, the idea of a data mesh really helps us because what we can do is we can federate access across the company so that, you know, CNN can work at their own pace. You know, when there's election season, they can ingest their own data and they don't have to, you know, bump up against, as an example, HBO if Game of Thrones is going on. >>So it's often the case that data mesh is in the eyes of the implementer. And while a company's implementation may not strictly adhere to Jamma Dani's vision of data mesh, and that's okay, the goal is to use data more effectively. And despite Gartner's attempts to deposition data mesh in favor of the somewhat confusing or frankly far more confusing data fabric concept that they stole from NetApp data mesh is taking hold in organizations globally today. So we're gonna take a B on this one. The prediction is shaping up the way we envision, but as we previously reported, it's gonna take some time. The better part of a decade in our view, new standards have to emerge to make this vision become reality and they'll come in the form of both open and de facto approaches. Okay, our eighth prediction last year focused on the face off between Snowflake and Databricks. >>And we realized this popular topic, and maybe one that's getting a little overplayed, but these are two companies that initially, you know, looked like they were shaping up as partners and they, by the way, they are still partnering in the field. But you go back a couple years ago, the idea of using an AW w s infrastructure, Databricks machine intelligence and applying that on top of Snowflake as a facile data warehouse, still very viable. But both of these companies, they have much larger ambitions. They got big total available markets to chase and large valuations that they have to justify. So what's happening is, as we've previously reported, each of these companies is moving toward the other firm's core domain and they're building out an ecosystem that'll be critical for their future. So as part of that effort, we said each is gonna become aggressive investors and maybe start doing some m and a and they have in various companies. >>And on this chart that we produced last year, we studied some of the companies that were targets and we've added some recent investments of both Snowflake and Databricks. As you can see, they've both, for example, invested in elation snowflake's, put money into Lacework, the Secur security firm, ThoughtSpot, which is trying to democratize data with ai. Collibra is a governance platform and you can see Databricks investments in data transformation with D B T labs, Matillion doing simplified business intelligence hunters. So that's, you know, they're security investment and so forth. So other than our thought that we'd see Databricks I p o last year, this prediction been pretty spot on. So we'll give ourselves an A on that one. Now observability has been a hot topic and we've been covering it for a while with our friends at E T R, particularly Eric Bradley. Our number nine prediction last year was basically that if you're not cloud native and observability, you are gonna be in big trouble. >>So everything guys gotta go cloud native. And that's clearly been the case. Splunk, the big player in the space has been transitioning to the cloud, hasn't always been pretty, as we reported, Datadog real momentum, the elk stack, that's open source model. You got new entrants that we've cited before, like observe, honeycomb, chaos search and others that we've, we've reported on, they're all born in the cloud. So we're gonna take another a on this one, admittedly, yeah, it's a re reasonably easy call, but you gotta have a few of those in the mix. Okay, our last prediction, our number 10 was around events. Something the cube knows a little bit about. We said that a new category of events would emerge as hybrid and that for the most part is happened. So that's gonna be the mainstay is what we said. That pure play virtual events are gonna give way to hi hybrid. >>And the narrative is that virtual only events are, you know, they're good for quick hits, but lousy replacements for in-person events. And you know that said, organizations of all shapes and sizes, they learn how to create better virtual content and support remote audiences during the pandemic. So when we set at pure play is gonna give way to hybrid, we said we, we i we implied or specific or specified that the physical event that v i p experience is going defined. That overall experience and those v i p events would create a little fomo, fear of, of missing out in a virtual component would overlay that serves an audience 10 x the size of the physical. We saw that really two really good examples. Red Hat Summit in Boston, small event, couple thousand people served tens of thousands, you know, online. Second was Google Cloud next v i p event in, in New York City. >>Everything else was, was, was, was virtual. You know, even examples of our prediction of metaverse like immersion have popped up and, and and, and you know, other companies are doing roadshow as we predicted like a lot of companies are doing it. You're seeing that as a major trend where organizations are going with their sales teams out into the regions and doing a little belly to belly action as opposed to the big giant event. That's a definitely a, a trend that we're seeing. So in reviewing this prediction, the grade we gave ourselves is, you know, maybe a bit unfair, it should be, you could argue for a higher grade, but the, but the organization still haven't figured it out. They have hybrid experiences but they generally do a really poor job of leveraging the afterglow and of event of an event. It still tends to be one and done, let's move on to the next event or the next city. >>Let the sales team pick up the pieces if they were paying attention. So because of that, we're only taking a B plus on this one. Okay, so that's the review of last year's predictions. You know, overall if you average out our grade on the 10 predictions that come out to a b plus, I dunno why we can't seem to get that elusive a, but we're gonna keep trying our friends at E T R and we are starting to look at the data for 2023 from the surveys and all the work that we've done on the cube and our, our analysis and we're gonna put together our predictions. We've had literally hundreds of inbounds from PR pros pitching us. We've got this huge thick folder that we've started to review with our yellow highlighter. And our plan is to review it this month, take a look at all the data, get some ideas from the inbounds and then the e t R of January surveys in the field. >>It's probably got a little over a thousand responses right now. You know, they'll get up to, you know, 1400 or so. And once we've digested all that, we're gonna go back and publish our predictions for 2023 sometime in January. So stay tuned for that. All right, we're gonna leave it there for today. You wanna thank Alex Myerson who's on production and he manages the podcast, Ken Schiffman as well out of our, our Boston studio. I gotta really heartfelt thank you to Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and their team. They helped get the word out on social and in our newsletters. Rob Ho is our editor in chief over at Silicon Angle who does some great editing for us. Thank you all. Remember all these podcasts are available or all these episodes are available is podcasts. Wherever you listen, just all you do Search Breaking analysis podcast, really getting some great traction there. Appreciate you guys subscribing. I published each week on wikibon.com, silicon angle.com or you can email me directly at david dot valante silicon angle.com or dm me Dante, or you can comment on my LinkedIn post. And please check out ETR AI for the very best survey data in the enterprise tech business. Some awesome stuff in there. This is Dante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>mm Welcome to VM World 2021 2 days of virtual discussions on innovation. Multi cloud application modernization, securing your data new ways to work transforming the network expanding to the edge and loads of content to help build your digital business. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cube and with me today is Carol Carpenter who's the chief marketing officer of VM. Where carol Great to see you again. Welcome back to the program. >>Thank you Dave. It's great to be here. >>Okay, well, so when we last talked last year at VM World, I honestly thought we'd be back face to face this year. Seems like we learn more every day every week. Every month. How did this year's event come together? What were your priorities in shaping the program? >>You know, I'm with you. I really hoped we would be together in person this year and here we are, another year of virtual. We are primarily all virtual again, which has some really big benefits in that we're able to reach new audiences who in the past couldn't afford to fly, could afford to take the days And it's taught us a lot. So we really approached this year as how do we create a VM world experience that is filled with digestible bites. You know, the notion that any of us are going to sit still for 3-2 days, three days and pay attention full time. This is a pretty antiquated notion. You know, we all like to to take little bites and tastes of content here and there and so we really designed the whole program to do just that. And with this go ahead. >>No, please carry on. >>No, I was going to say one of the things we really wanted to do this year with the M world. The reason the theme is imagined that is we wanted to show the world that VM World is not about your parents, BM world that this is a company while we're very proud of our virtualization past, what we offer today really spans the gamut as you pointed out everything from networking to security to application development platforms. So it's a it's just a different different company with different products and solutions for customers. >>And I love the whole concept of digestible called stackable bites and love that. And you've put together a pretty impressive lineup. You got superstar names, you got, you got stars inside of our industry and then you you know the tech people might know but you've got well known celebrities. What are you looking forward to this year and you know especially around customer and partner engagements. >>Yeah and thank you for highlighting all of that. Like I am super excited about all the different luminaries who are speaking. I am most excited about the customers and partners. Every session will have a customer's part of it. Either a customer speaking or a customer story or customer quotes really speaking to the value and with that we have hundreds of customers presenting customers. Like some you might expect like Fedex to new sas based customers like toast who provides restaurant software and they just went public to companies like space ape games who provide online games. So a real boy, I think a real diversity of customers um, in terms of their transformations and how they're leveraging the VM ware solutions. And then our partner ecosystem really excited. This year we added a new level of sponsorship to bring in some of the um, I would say younger customers and younger partners, partners like, you know, Reddit and um, you know, couch face and others who are bringing new solutions to market. >>We have some great names, they're toast. I think the local boston company, we've, we've been following them so excited to to hear what they have to say. Now let's talk a little bit about the virtual world, This is your second virtual VM world. I'm interested in what you're doing differently. I want to talk about learning, but, but what are you looking forward to in in, in in that sense? And how has the event grown? >>Well, the event has definitely grown in terms of the platform. I think the expectations in terms of numbers of attendees were expecting, you know, over 100,000. Um, and even in this zoom fatigued world, we still expect high level of engagement. The biggest changes. We have made one the more stackable content that we've been talking about two. We focused this year on a high level of interactivity, so we have slack channels set up for almost every session. We expect both speakers, customers prospects to really engage. And and then third area that's different is we amped up all of the different activities. We know that people want to interact and network in other ways. So, you know, some of the usual things like the bourbon tasting, the wine tasting, but also yoga classes and opportunities to learn from a magician, Even golf tips for those of us who love golfing, um really trying to mix it up and create a higher level of interactivity. In addition to all of the platforms you expect for hands on, learning, hands on labs, practitioner classes, All that's still there. We just wanted to increase the level of engagement. >>That's super fun, really innovating in that regard. You're right. I mean it's so easy to just to multitask and get lost. But if I know like if I'm really into yoga or I want some golf tip, I'm gonna come back at that time and it'll, you'll re engage me. So I love that, you know, the cube, we have a unique privilege of participating in a very wide spectrum of events as you can imagine. And we were deeply integrated carol into one of the industry's first big hybrid events this year at mobile world Congress this >>summer. We thought >>that was like the light of the end of the tunnel, but of course we've seen a pullback of sorts but we're still doing some physical, we do a lot of virtual, we were doing these hybrid events. We've been involved in events where they, you know, the host and the guests are there with no audience. So I'm curious as to how you see the evolution of conferences in this post isolation era. What's the learnings? What's changed and what does the future look like for events? >>Yeah, I mean I've talked with a lot of my industry peers about this, including the folks over at Mobile World Congress. Um, I don't think the large, the monolithic event with hundreds of thousands of people um, is in the cards for our near future. And so we've been rethinking like what does a physical event look like or a set of physical events look like next year. That would have an online component. We're we've always had an online component. So we certainly are not. We won't be shedding that anytime soon. The ability to reach new audiences. New targets, new user groups, we absolutely will keep that. I think in terms of the physical presence is exactly what you said. It will be hybrid. Um, we are looking at a series, don't quote me on this because we haven't finalized, but we are considering a series of in person, more local, more regional events with smaller groups. People still want that engagement, customers still want a network and talk with each other. Our users want to talk to each other are vima groups are our new groups like our DEvoPS loop group. The deVOPS folks, they all still want a network, so we want to provide that. But in a smaller, safer, more localized setting. And I think that's the future for a lot of companies. It puts a bigger toll and, and makes more work for us as the company who's hosting, meaning you and you too Dave, you'll be hopefully traveling with us two more of these locations, but it creates a little more strain on the team who is posting. >>You know, it's funny as you well know when we first started doing virtual events, like I said, we've always been been virtual, but largely it was okay. Here are the keynotes, you know, come watch. Uh, and now you're like, say you gave great examples of how you're increasing the engagement, getting much more creative and, and, and it was a lot unknown last year, especially like class March. It was like, okay and virtual events are harder in many respects than physical events and so much of the process has changed different roles. And I think we're seeing the same thing now with with hybrid, there's a lot that's unknown and a lot of trial and error, a lot of experimentation and, but I think at the end of the day, you can actually have the best of both worlds. You can get your what you described, I would, I would call it a VIP locally. V. I. P. Event maybe even role based they have the technical folks, it used to have conferences within conferences, you have your C. I. O. Event, you'd have your event and so I see a kind of return to that maybe I could say smaller and and safer and then a a much much larger audience and in the case it's different in terms of you know converting those into loyal customers and so forth. But but I think overall it's a much much bigger pond ocean that we're playing in. >>Absolutely I think of it as we're going to bring the um world too our customers and prospects and partners and you know it's pretty amazing. The other part of this you asked earlier about like speakers and some of the luminaries the fact is getting everyone to travel to one place at one point in time always had its share of logistical challenges and being able to, you know, some of it can be recorded in advance some of it will be in person. Like one thing we did this year is we recorded our ceo Ragu with six other ceos of hyper scholars talking about the future of multi cloud and what it means and the role that VM ware plays in this. That's pretty hard to do. Like to get all six of them together in one place at the same time. You know how everyone's schedules so compacted so that's what virtual gives us an opportunity to do reach, have more interesting speakers, lots of different speakers who potentially couldn't all travel. >>You don't want to miss that, that event or replay. Um, let's talk about your role as chief marketing officer. You're obviously putting your fingerprints on this new ever you new era. You had no choice you could have entered in. Yeah. We always talked about digital now is like if you're not a digital business, you're out of business and you're, you're living it now. But but I'm interested in in your strategy for global marketing, the organization, The brand in the coming decade. Like you say, the next 10 years are going to be like the last 10 years. >>That's right. Well let's talk about the brand. So VM ware, The name itself is so tightly associated to virtualization and VMS, right, Which is an amazing history and the story of success. That was really what we like to talk about is chapter One, We pioneered server virtualization laying the foundation for what today is the cloud. And then chapter two, we went bigger and broader and we virtualize the entire data center and now here we are, we're in chapter three and this is the next phase of our brand and our promise to customers, which is really focused on customer based innovation and helping our customers innovate and multi cloud. We really believe it's the center of gravity for everything we do. It's in our DNA. It's what how we take constraints which is a very multi cloud can be complex. There are challenges of you know are for customers operating in a multi cloud world. How do we take that help them turn it into an asset, How do we help them take that and give them freedom and control? And that's what our brand is about. It's about the ant is that you can help your developers move faster and retain enterprise control. It's that you can have enterprise apps on any cloud and you can have control and cost savings and enterprise management. So that's what the brand is about. That power of aunt and um and um in terms of how our marketing team is evolving a big piece is exactly what you said. You know just digital everything digital first customers want to learn try buy online and as a company you know VM ware we're shifting our business model from on premise license software to more assassin subscription services And you can see that in our earnings and how we've been shifting and it's quite exciting because with assassin subscription based model you know it's all about customers getting full value in helping customers achieve their value and consumption. So for our marketing team we have shifted from okay we want to get you to the sale and one and done to how do we really drive a full life cycle with a customer, how do we help them land and expand and use the products and get value from them and have a meaningful relationship. It's much more um of a full life cycle. So we're really excited. We, we love what we're doing um particularly on the acquisition side, getting helping customers to learn try by more easily in a digital world and then being able to follow them through with some physical, physical engagement, uh events like the um world and really helping them get the most value out of the products. >>VM ware is really quite an amazing company I'm super excited for as one individual has been following this company for a long time to see the next chapter and the thing a couple of things you mentioned innovation and I see so many companies today, they may have a big customer base, they just, it's easy for them. Easy quotes to milk that customer base and put out new products that sort of lifecycle products. Multi cloud is challenging and one of the hallmarks of VM ware is it's always had a leader that deeply understands technology. You've done that again with with Ragu and so engineering and really drives that innovation. So when I think about cloud generally and you know, there was some start stops with VMware's cloud strategy but then you said, you know what the cloud is an opportunity, it's a gift, we're gonna lean in and then you develop some really interesting partnerships like you said, you got all the big cloud companies up up on stage here this year. And so multi cloud is going to require deep engineering in a vision to really bring that uh, together. And I think, you know, VM ware is, he's one of a handful, you know, small handful of companies that can actually pull that off. >>Well, thank you. Dave, we think so for sure. I mean, we have the history and the foundation and the relationships to be able to do that. I think that um what's what's hard sometimes is that, you know, people may or may not know all the different things we do this multi cloud chapter is really a, It's the reality, 75% of our customers are operating living in a multi cloud world. And if you look at some of the data, it looks like 80, are going that way. And so how do we help them simplify? How do we help customers simplify and innovate for the future? It's definitely in our DNA it's how we take constraints and turn them into an asset for our customers. We, we really believe that it shouldn't be so complex and that we want our customers to have flexibility and choice used to be able to pick which application for which cloud and at any point in time change your mind as well when there are new capabilities on those clouds. And for us, you know, you've hit it on the head, we did realize and we did learn that we don't really want to compete with the hyper scale ear's, what they're doing is pretty unique. What we want to do is help customers consume and accelerate their innovation faster. >>Well, I love the messages and and really appreciate carol your time explaining to our cube audience, going to your vision is the CMO. And you know, we look forward to an interesting chapter ahead with hybrid events, hybrid cloud, multi cloud and all the rest. Thanks so much for coming back in the cube. >>Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Dave >>You're very welcome and thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more great content to cubes coverage of VM World 2021. The virtual edition will be right back. >>Mhm

>>Hello. And we're here at the cube startup showcase made possible by a Ws. Thanks so much for joining us today. You know when Jim McDaid Ghani was formulating her ideas around data mesh, She wasn't the only one thinking about decentralized data architecture. Hello, Fresh was going into hyper growth mode and realized that in order to support its scale, it needed to rethink how it thought about data. Like many companies that started in the early part of last decade, Hello Fresh relied on a monolithic data architecture and the internal team. It had concerns about its ability to support continued innovation at high velocity. The company's data team began to think about the future and work backwards from a target architecture which possessed many principles of so called data mesh even though they didn't use that term. Specifically, the company is a strong example of an early but practical pioneer of data mission. Now there are many practitioners and stakeholders involved in evolving the company's data architecture, many of whom are listed here on this on the slide to are highlighted in red are joining us today, we're really excited to welcome into the cube Clements cheese, the Global Senior Director for Data at Hello Fresh and christoph Nevada who's the Global Senior Director of data also, of course. Hello Fresh folks. Welcome. Thanks so much for making some time today and sharing your story. >>Thank you very much. Hey >>steve. All right, let's start with Hello Fresh. You guys are number one in the world in your field, you deliver hundreds of millions of meals each year to many, many millions of people around the globe. You're scaling christoph. Tell us a little bit more about your company and its vision. >>Yeah. Should I start or Clements maybe maybe take over the first piece because Clements has actually been a longer trajectory yet have a fresh. >>Yeah go ahead. Climate change. I mean yes about approximately six years ago I joined handle fresh and I didn't think about the startup I was joining would eventually I. P. O. And just two years later and the freshman public and approximately three years and 10 months after. Hello fresh was listed on the German stock exchange which was just last week. Hello Fresh was included in the Ducks Germany's leading stock market index and debt to mind a great great milestone and I'm really looking forward and I'm very excited for the future for the future for head of fashion. All our data. Um the vision that we have is to become the world's leading food solution group and there's a lot of attractive opportunities. So recently we did lounge and expand Norway. This was in july and earlier this year we launched the U. S. Brand green >>chef in the U. K. As >>well. We're committed to launch continuously different geographies in the next coming years and have a strong pipe ahead of us with the acquisition of ready to eat companies like factor in the U. S. And the planned acquisition of you foods in Australia. We're diversifying our offer now reaching even more and more untapped customer segments and increase our total addressable market. So by offering customers and growing range of different alternatives to shop food and consumer meals. We are charging towards this vision and the school to become the world's leading integrated food solutions group. >>Love it. You guys are on a rocket ship, you're really transforming the industry and as you expand your tam it brings us to sort of the data as a as a core part of that strategy. So maybe you guys could talk a little bit about your journey as a company specifically as it relates to your data journey. You began as a start up. You had a basic architecture like everyone. You made extensive use of spreadsheets. You built a Hadoop based system that started to grow and when the company I. P. O. You really started to explode. So maybe describe that journey from a data perspective. >>Yes they saw Hello fresh by 2015 approximately had evolved what amount of classical centralized management set up. So we grew very organically over the years and there were a lot of very smart people around the globe. Really building the company and building our infrastructure. Um This also means that there were a small number of internal and external sources. Data sources and a centralized the I team with a number of people producing different reports, different dashboards and products for our executives for example of our different operations teams, christian company's performance and knowledge was transferred um just via talking to each other face to face conversations and the people in the data where's team were considered as the data wizard or as the E. T. L. Wizard. Very classical challenges. And those et al. Reserves indicated the kind of like a silent knowledge of data management. Right? Um so a central data whereas team then was responsible for different type of verticals and different domains, different geographies and all this setup gave us to the beginning the flexibility to grow fast as a company in 2015 >>christoph anything that might add to that. >>Yes. Um Not expected to that one but as as clement says it right, this was kind of set up that actually work for us quite a while. And then in 2017 when L. A. Freshman public, the company also grew rapidly and just to give you an idea how that looked like. As was that the tech department self actually increased from about 40 people to almost 300 engineers And the same way as a business units as Clemens has described, also grew sustainable, sustainably. So we continue to launch hello fresh and new countries launching brands like every plate and also acquired other brands like much of a factor and with that grows also from a data perspective the number of data requests that centrally we're getting become more and more and more and also more and more complex. So that for the team meant that they had a fairly high mental load. So they had to achieve a very or basically get a very deep understanding about the business. And also suffered a lot from this context switching back and forth, essentially there to prioritize across our product request from our physical product, digital product from the physical from sorry, from the marketing perspective and also from the central reporting uh teams. And in a nutshell this was very hard for these people. And this that also to a situation that, let's say the solution that we have became not really optimal. So in a nutshell, the central function became a bottleneck and slowdown of all the innovation of the company. >>It's a classic case, isn't it? I mean Clements, you see you see the central team becomes a bottleneck and so the lines of business, the marketing team salesman's okay, we're going to take things into our own hands. And then of course I I. T. And the technical team is called in later to clean up the mess. Uh maybe, I mean was that maybe I'm overstating it, but that's a common situation, isn't it? >>Yeah. Uh This is what exactly happened. Right. So um we had a bottleneck, we have the central teams, there was always a little of tension um analytics teams then started in this business domains like marketing, trade chain, finance, HR and so on. Started really to build their own data solutions at some point you have to get the ball rolling right and then continue the trajectory um which means then that the data pipelines didn't meet the engineering standards. And um there was an increased need for maintenance and support from central teams. Hence over time the knowledge about those pipelines and how to maintain a particular uh infrastructure for example left the company such that most of those data assets and data sets are turned into a huge step with decreasing data quality um also decrease the lack of trust, decreasing transparency. And this was increasing challenge where majority of time was spent in meeting rooms to align on on data quality for example. >>Yeah. And and the point you were making christoph about context switching and this is this is a point that Jemaah makes quite often is we've we've we've contextualized are operational systems like our sales systems, our marketing system but not our our data system. So you're asking the data team, Okay. Be an expert in sales, be an expert in marketing, be an expert in logistics, be an expert in supply chain and it start stop, start, stop, it's a paper cut environment and it's just not as productive. But but on the flip side of that is when you think about a centralized organization you think, hey this is going to be a very efficient way, a cross functional team to support the organization but it's not necessarily the highest velocity, most effective organizational structure. >>Yeah, so so I agree with that. Is that up to a certain scale, a centralized function has a lot of advantages, right? That's clear for everyone which would go to some kind of expert team. However, if you see that you actually would like to accelerate that and specific and this hyper growth, right, you wanna actually have autonomy and certain teams and move the teams or let's say the data to the experts in these teams and this, as you have mentioned, right, that increases mental load and you can either internally start splitting your team into a different kind of sub teams focusing on different areas. However, that is then again, just adding another peace where actually collaboration needs to happen busy external sees, so why not bridging that gap immediately and actually move these teams and to end into into the function themselves. So maybe just to continue what, what was Clements was saying and this is actually where over. So Clements, my journey started to become one joint journey. So Clements was coming actually from one of these teams to build their own solutions. I was basically having the platform team called database housed in these days and in 2019 where basically the situation become more and more serious, I would say so more and more people have recognized that this model doesn't really scale In 2019, basically the leadership of the company came together and I identified data as a key strategic asset and what we mean by that, that if we leverage data in a proper way, it gives us a unique competitive advantage which could help us to, to support and actually fully automated our decision making process across the entire value chain. So what we're, what we're trying to do now or what we should be aiming for is that Hello, Fresh is able to build data products that have a purpose. We're moving away from the idea. Data is just a by problem products, we have a purpose why we would like to collect this data. There's a clear business need behind that. And because it's so important to for the company as a business, we also want to provide them as a trust versi asset to the rest of the organization. We say there's the best customer experience, but at least in a way that users can easily discover, understand and security access high quality data. >>Yeah, so and and and Clements, when you c J Maxx writing, you see, you know, she has the four pillars and and the principles as practitioners you look at that say, okay, hey, that's pretty good thinking and then now we have to apply it and that's and that's where the devil meets the details. So it's the four, you know, the decentralized data ownership data as a product, which we'll talk about a little bit self serve, which you guys have spent a lot of time on inclement your wheelhouse which is which is governance and a Federated governance model. And it's almost like if you if you achieve the first two then you have to solve for the second to it almost creates a new challenges but maybe you could talk about that a little bit as to how it relates to Hello fresh. >>Yes. So christophe mentioned that we identified economic challenge beforehand and for how can we actually decentralized and actually empower the different colleagues of ours. This was more a we realized that it was more an organizational or a cultural change and this is something that somebody also mentioned I think thought words mentioned one of the white papers, it's more of a organizational or cultural impact and we kicked off a um faced reorganization or different phases we're currently and um in the middle of still but we kicked off different phases of organizational reconstruct oring reorganization, try unlock this data at scale. And the idea was really moving away from um ever growing complex matrix organizations or matrix setups and split between two different things. One is the value creation. So basically when people ask the question, what can we actually do, what shall we do? This is value creation and how, which is capability building and both are equal in authority. This actually then creates a high urge and collaboration and this collaboration breaks up the different silos that were built and of course this also includes different needs of stuffing forward teams stuffing with more, let's say data scientists or data engineers, data professionals into those business domains and hence also more capability building. Um Okay, >>go ahead. Sorry. >>So back to Tzemach did johnny. So we the idea also Then crossed over when she published her papers in May 2019 and we thought well The four colors that she described um we're around decentralized data ownership, product data as a product mindset, we have a self service infrastructure and as you mentioned, Federated confidential governance. And this suited very much with our thinking at that point of time to reorganize the different teams and this then leads to a not only organisational restructure but also in completely new approach of how we need to manage data, show data. >>Got it. Okay, so your business is is exploding. Your data team will have to become domain experts in too many areas, constantly contact switching as we said, people started to take things into their own hands. So again we said classic story but but you didn't let it get out of control and that's important. So we actually have a picture of kind of where you're going today and it's evolved into this Pat, if you could bring up the picture with the the elephant here we go. So I would talk a little bit about the architecture, doesn't show it here, the spreadsheet era but christoph maybe you can talk about that. It does show the Hadoop monolith which exists today. I think that's in a managed managed hosting service, but but you you preserve that piece of it, but if I understand it correctly, everything is evolving to the cloud, I think you're running a lot of this or all of it in A W. S. Uh you've got everybody's got their own data sources, uh you've got a data hub which I think is enabled by a master catalog for discovery and all this underlying technical infrastructure. That is really not the focus of this conversation today. But the key here, if I understand it correctly is these domains are autonomous and not only that this required technical thinking, but really supportive organizational mindset, which we're gonna talk about today. But christoph maybe you could address, you know, at a high level some of the architectural evolution that you guys went through. >>Yeah, sure. Yeah, maybe it's also a good summary about the entire history. So as you have mentioned, right, we started in the very beginning with the model is on the operation of playing right? Actually, it wasn't just one model is both to one for the back end and one for the for the front and and or analytical plane was essentially a couple of spreadsheets and I think there's nothing wrong with spreadsheets, right, allows you to store information, it allows you to transform data allows you to share this information. It allows you to visualize this data, but all the kind of that's not actually separating concern right? Everything in one tool. And this means that obviously not scalable, right? You reach the point where this kind of management set up in or data management of isn't one tool reached elements. So what we have started is we've created our data lake as we have seen here on Youtube. And this at the very beginning actually reflected very much our operational populace on top of that. We used impala is a data warehouse, but there was not really a distinction between borders, our data warehouse and borders our data like the impala was used as a kind of those as the kind of engine to create a warehouse and data like construct itself and this organic growth actually led to a situation as I think it's it's clear now that we had to centralized model is for all the domains that will really lose kimball modeling standards. There was no uniformity used actually build in house uh ways of building materialized use abuse that we have used for the presentation layer, there was a lot of duplication of effort and in the end essentially they were missing feedbacks, food, which helped us to to improve of what we are filled. So in the end, in the natural, as we have said, the lack of trust and that's basically what the starting point for us to understand. Okay, how can we move away and there are a lot of different things that you can discuss of apart from this organizational structure that we have said, okay, we have these three or four pillars from from Denmark. However, there's also the next extra question around how do we implement our talking about actual right, what are the implications on that level? And I think that is there's something that we are that we are currently still in progress. >>Got it. Okay, so I wonder if we could talk about switch gears a little bit and talk about the organizational and cultural challenges that you faced. What were those conversations like? Uh let's dig into that a little bit. I want to get into governance as well. >>The conversations on the cultural change. I mean yes, we went through a hyper growth for the last year since obviously there were a lot of new joiners, a lot of different, very, very smart people joining the company which then results that collaboration uh >>got a bit more difficult. Of course >>there are times and changes, you have different different artifacts that you were created um and documentation that were flying around. Um so we were we had to build the company from scratch right? Um Of course this then resulted always this tension which I described before, but the most important part here is that data has always been a very important factor at l a fresh and we collected >>more of this >>data and continued to improve use data to improve the different key areas of our business. >>Um even >>when organizational struggles, the central organizational struggles data somehow always helped us to go through this this kind of change. Right? Um in the end those decentralized teams in our local geography ease started with solutions that serve the business which was very very important otherwise wouldn't be at the place where we are today but they did by all late best practices and standards and I always used sport analogy Dave So like any sport, there are different rules and regulations that need to be followed. These rules are defined by calling the sports association and this is what you can think about data governance and compliance team. Now we add the players to it who need to follow those rules and bite by them. This is what we then called data management. Now we have the different players and professionals, they need to be trained and understand the strategy and it rules before they can play. And this is what I then called data literacy. So we realized that we need to focus on helping our teams to develop those capabilities and teach the standards for how work is being done to truly drive functional excellence in a different domains. And one of our mission of our data literacy program for example is to really empower >>every employee at hello >>fresh everyone to make the right data informs decisions by providing data education that scaled by royal Entry team. Then this can be different things, different things like including data capabilities, um, with the learning paths for example. Right? So help them to create and deploy data products connecting data producers and data consumers and create a common sense and more understanding of each other's dependencies, which is important, for example, S. S. L. O. State of contracts and etcetera. Um, people getting more of a sense of ownership and responsibility. Of course, we have to define what it means, what does ownership means? But the responsibility means. But we're teaching this to our colleagues via individual learning patterns and help them up skill to use. Also, there's shared infrastructure and those self self service applications and overall to summarize, we're still in this progress of of, of learning, we are still learning as well. So learning never stops the tele fish, but we are really trying this um, to make it as much fun as possible. And in the end we all know user behavior has changed through positive experience. Uh, so instead of having massive training programs over endless courses of workshops, um, leaving our new journalists and colleagues confused and overwhelmed. >>We're applying um, >>game ification, right? So split different levels of certification where our colleagues can access, have had access points, they can earn badges along the way, which then simplifies the process of learning and engagement of the users and this is what we see in surveys, for example, where our employees that your justification approach a lot and are even competing to collect Those learning path batteries to become the # one on the leader board. >>I love the game ification, we've seen it work so well and so many different industries, not the least of which is crypto so you've identified some of the process gaps uh that you, you saw it is gloss over them. Sometimes I say paved the cow path. You didn't try to force, in other words, a new architecture into the legacy processes. You really have to rethink your approach to data management. So what what did that entail? >>Um, to rethink the way of data management. 100%. So if I take the example of Revolution, Industrial Revolution or classical supply chain revolution, but just imagine that you have been riding a horse, for example, your whole life and suddenly you can operate a car or you suddenly receive just a complete new way of transporting assets from A to B. Um, so we needed to establish a new set of cross functional business processes to run faster, dry faster, um, more robustly and deliver data products which can be trusted and used by downstream processes and systems. Hence we had a subset of new standards and new procedures that would fall into the internal data governance and compliance sector with internal, I'm always referring to the data operations around new things like data catalog, how to identify >>ownership, >>how to change ownership, how to certify data assets, everything around classical software development, which we know apply to data. This this is similar to a new thinking, right? Um deployment, versioning, QA all the different things, ingestion policies, policing procedures, all the things that suffer. Development has been doing. We do it now with data as well. And in simple terms, it's a whole redesign of the supply chain of our data with new procedures and new processes and as a creation as management and as a consumption. >>So data has become kind of the new development kit. If you will um I want to shift gears and talk about the notion of data product and, and we have a slide uh that we pulled from your deck and I'd like to unpack it a little bit. Uh I'll just, if you can bring that up, I'll read it. A data product is a product whose primary objective is to leverage on data to solve customer problems where customers, both internal and external. So pretty straightforward. I know you've gone much deeper and you're thinking and into your organization, but how do you think about that And how do you determine for instance who owns what? How did you get everybody to agree? >>I can take that one. Um, maybe let me start with the data product. So I think um that's an ongoing debate. Right? And I think the debate itself is an important piece here, right? That visit the debate, you clarify what we actually mean by that product and what is actually the mindset. So I think just from a definition perspective, right? I think we find the common denominator that we say okay that our product is something which is important for the company has come to its value what you mean by that. Okay, it's it's a solution to a customer problem that delivers ideally maximum value to the business. And yes, it leverages the power of data and we have a couple of examples but it had a fresh year, the historical and classical ones around dashboards for example, to monitor or error rates but also more sophisticated ways for example to incorporate machine learning algorithms in our recipe recommendations. However, I think the important aspects of the data product is a there is an owner, right? There's someone accountable for making sure that the product that we are providing is actually served and is maintained and there are, there is someone who is making sure that this actually keeps the value of that problem thing combined with the idea of the proper documentation, like a product description, right that people understand how to use their bodies is about and related to that peace is the idea of it is a purpose. Right? You need to understand or ask ourselves, Okay, why does this thing exist does it provide the value that you think it does. That leads into a good understanding about the life cycle of the data product and life cycle what we mean? Okay from the beginning from the creation you need to have a good understanding, we need to collect feedback, we need to learn about that. We need to rework and actually finally also to think about okay benefits time to decommission piece. So overall, I think the core of the data product is product thinking 11 right that we start the point is the starting point needs to be the problem and not the solution and this is essentially what we have seen what was missing but brought us to this kind of data spaghetti that we have built there in in Russia, essentially we built at certain data assets, develop in isolation and continuously patch the solution just to fulfill these articles that we got and actually these aren't really understanding of the stakeholder needs and the interesting piece as a result in duplication of work and this is not just frustrating and probably not the most efficient way how the company should work. But also if I build the same that assets but slightly different assumption across the company and multiple teams that leads to data inconsistency and imagine the following too narrow you as a management for management perspective, you're asking basically a specific question and you get essentially from a couple of different teams, different kind of grass, different kind of data and numbers and in the end you do not know which ones to trust. So there's actually much more ambiguity and you do not know actually is a noise for times of observing or is it just actually is there actually a signal that I'm looking for? And the same is if I'm running in a B test right, I have a new future, I would like to understand what has it been the business impact of this feature. I run that specific source in an unfortunate scenario. Your production system is actually running on a different source. You see different numbers. What you've seen in a B test is actually not what you see then in production typical thing then is you're asking some analytics tend to actually do a deep dive to understand where the discrepancies are coming from. The worst case scenario. Again, there's a different kind of source. So in the end it's a pretty frustrating scenario and that's actually based of time of people that have to identify the root cause of this divergence. So in a nutshell, the highest degree of consistency is actually achieved that people are just reusing Dallas assets and also in the media talk that we have given right, we we start trying to establish this approach for a B testing. So we have a team but just providing or is kind of owning their target metric associated business teams and they're providing that as a product also to other services including the A B testing team, they'll be testing team can use this information defines an interface is okay I'm joining this information that the metadata of an experiment and in the end after the assignment after this data collection face, they can easily add a graph to the dashboard. Just group by the >>Beatles Hungarian. >>And we have seen that also in other companies. So it's not just a nice dream that we have right. I have actually worked in other companies where we worked on search and we established a complete KPI pipeline that was computing all this information. And this information was hosted by the team and it was used for everything A B test and deep dives and and regular reporting. So uh just one of the second the important piece now, why I'm coming back to that is that requires that we are treating this data as a product right? If you want to have multiple people using the things that I am owning and building, we have to provide this as a trust mercy asset and in a way that it's easy for people to discover and actually work with. >>Yeah. And coming back to that. So this is to me this is why I get so excited about data mesh because I really do think it's the right direction for organizations. When people hear data product they say well, what does that mean? Uh but then when you start to sort of define it as you did, it's it's using data to add value, that could be cutting costs, that could be generating revenue, it could be actually directly you're creating a product that you monetize, So it's sort of in the eyes of the beholder. But I think the other point that we've made is you made it earlier on to and again, context. So when you have a centralized data team and you have all these P NL managers a lot of times they'll question the data because they don't own it. They're like wait a minute. If they don't, if it doesn't agree with their agenda, they'll attack the data. But if they own the data then they're responsible for defending that and that is a mindset change, that's really important. Um And I'm curious uh is how you got to, you know, that ownership? Was it a was it a top down with somebody providing leadership? Was it more organic bottom up? Was it a sort of a combination? How do you decide who owned what in other words, you know, did you get, how did you get the business to take ownership of the data and what is owning? You know, the data actually mean? >>That's a very good question. Dave I think this is one of the pieces where I think we have a lot of learnings and basically if you ask me how we could start the feeling. I think that would be the first piece. Maybe we need to start to really think about how that should be approached if it stopped his ownership. Right? It means somehow that the team has a responsibility to host and self the data efforts to minimum acceptable standards. This minimum dependencies up and down string. The interesting piece has been looking backwards. What what's happening is that under that definition has actually process that we have to go through is not actually transferring ownership from the central team to the distributor teams. But actually most cases to establish ownership, I make this difference because saying we have to transfer ownership actually would erroneously suggests that the data set was owned before. But this platform team, yes, they had the capability to make the changes on data pipelines, but actually the analytics team, they're always the ones who had the business understands, you use cases and but no one actually, but it's actually expensive expected. So we had to go through this very lengthy process and establishing ownership. We have done that, as in the beginning, very naively. They have started, here's a document here, all the data assets, what is probably the nearest neighbor who can actually take care of that and then we we moved it over. But the problem here is that all these things is kind of technical debt, right? It's not really properly documented, pretty unstable. It was built in a very inconsistent over years and these people who have built this thing have already left the company. So there's actually not a nice thing that is that you want to see and people build up a certain resistance, e even if they have actually bought into this idea of domain ownership. So if you ask me these learnings, but what needs to happen as first, the company needs to really understand what our core business concept that they have, they need to have this mapping from. These are the core business concept that we have. These are the domain teams who are owning this concept and then actually link that to the to the assets and integrated better with both understanding how we can evolve actually, the data assets and new data build things new in the in this piece in the domain. But also how can we address reduction of technical death and stabilizing what we have already. >>Thank you for that christoph. So I want to turn a direction here and talk about governance and I know that's an area that's passionate, you're passionate about. Uh I pulled this slide from your deck, which I kind of messed up a little bit sorry for that, but but by the way, we're going to publish a link to the full video that you guys did. So we'll share that with folks. But it's one of the most challenging aspects of data mesh, if you're going to decentralize you, you quickly realize this could be the Wild West as we talked about all over again. So how are you approaching governance? There's a lot of items on this slide that are, you know, underscore the complexity, whether it's privacy, compliance etcetera. So, so how did you approach this? >>It's yeah, it's about connecting those dots. Right. So the aim of the data governance program is about the autonomy of every team was still ensuring that everybody has the right interoperability. So when we want to move from the Wild West riding horses to a civilised way of transport, um you can take the example of modern street traffic, like when all participants can manoeuvre independently and as long as they follow the same rules and standards, everybody can remain compatible with each other and understand and learn from each other so we can avoid car crashes. So when I go from country to country, I do understand what the street infrastructure means. How do I drive my car? I can also read the traffic lights in the different signals. Um, so likewise as a business and Hello Fresh, we do operate autonomously and consequently need to follow those external and internal rules and standards to set forth by the redistribution in which we operate so in order to prevent a car crash, we need to at least ensure compliance with regulations to account for society's and our customers increasing concern with data protection and privacy. So teaching and advocating this advantage, realizing this to everyone in the company um was a key community communication strategy and of course, I mean I mentioned data privacy external factors, the same goes for internal regulations and processes to help our colleagues to adapt to this very new environment. So when I mentioned before the new way of thinking the new way of um dealing and managing data, this of course implies that we need new processes and regulations for our colleagues as well. Um in a nutshell then this means the data governance provides a framework for managing our people the processes and technology and culture around our data traffic. And those components must come together in order to have this effective program providing at least a common denominator, especially critical for shared dataset, which we have across our different geographies managed and shared applications on shared infrastructure and applications and is then consumed by centralized processes um for example, master data, everything and all the metrics and KPI s which are also used for a central steering. Um it's a big change day. Right. And our ultimate goal is to have this noninvasive, Federated um ultimatum and computational governance and for that we can't just talk about it. We actually have to go deep and use case by use case and Qc buy PVC and generate learnings and learnings with the different teams. And this would be a classical approach of identifying the target structure, the target status, match it with the current status by identifying together with the business teams with the different domains have a risk assessment for example, to increase transparency because a lot of teams, they might not even know what kind of situation they might be. And this is where this training and this piece of illiteracy comes into place where we go in and trade based on the findings based on the most valuable use case um and based on that help our teams to do this change to increase um their capability just a little bit more and once they hand holding. But a lot of guidance >>can I kind of kind of trying to quickly David will allow me I mean there's there's a lot of governance piece but I think um that is important. And if you're talking about documentation for example, yes, we can go from team to team and tell these people how you have to document your data and data catalog or you have to establish data contracts and so on the force. But if you would like to build data products at scale following actual governance, we need to think about automation right. We need to think about a lot of things that we can learn from engineering before. And that starts with simple things like if we would like to build up trust in our data products, right, and actually want to apply the same rigor and the best practices that we know from engineering. There are things that we can do and we should probably think about what we can copy and one example might be. So the level of service level agreements, service level objectives. So that level indicators right, that represent on on an engineering level, right? If we're providing services there representing the promises we made to our customers or consumers, these are the internal objectives that help us to keep those promises. And actually these are the way of how we are tracking ourselves, how we are doing. And this is just one example of that thing. The Federated Governor governance comes into play right. In an ideal world, we should not just talk about data as a product but also data product. That's code that we say, okay, as most as much as possible. Right? Give the engineers the tool that they are familiar basis and actually not ask the product managers for example to document their data assets in the data catalog but make it part of the configuration. Have this as a, as a C D C I, a continuous delivery pipeline as we typically see another engineering task through and services we say, okay, there is configuration, we can think about pr I can think about data quality monitoring, we can think about um the ingestion data catalog and so on and forest, I think ideally in the data product will become of a certain templates that can be deployed and are actually rejected or verified at build time before we actually make them deploy them to production. >>Yeah, So it's like devoPS for data product um so I'm envisioning almost a three phase approach to governance and you kind of, it sounds like you're in early phases called phase zero where there's there's learning, there's literacy, there's training, education, there's kind of self governance and then there's some kind of oversight, some a lot of manual stuff going on and then you you're trying to process builders at this phase and then you codify it and then you can automate it. Is that fair? >>Yeah, I would rather think think about automation as early as possible in the way and yes, there needs to be certain rules but then actually start actually use case by use case. Is there anything that small piece that we can already automate? It's as possible. Roll that out and then actually extended step by step, >>is there a role though that adjudicates that? Is there a central Chief state officer who is responsible for making sure people are complying or is it how do you handle that? >>I mean from a from a from a platform perspective, yes, we have a centralized team to uh implement certain pieces they'll be saying are important and actually would like to implement. However, that is actually working very closely with the governance department. So it's Clements piece to understand and defy the policies that needs to be implemented. >>So Clements essentially it's it's your responsibility to make sure that the policy is being followed. And then as you were saying, christoph trying to compress the time to automation as fast as possible percent. >>So >>it's really it's uh >>what needs to be really clear that it's always a split effort, Right? So you can't just do one thing or the other thing, but everything really goes hand in hand because for the right automation for the right engineering tooling, we need to have the transparency first. Uh I mean code needs to be coded so we kind of need to operate on the same level with the right understanding. So there's actually two things that are important which is one its policies and guidelines, but not only that because more importantly or even well equally important to align with the end user and tech teams and engineering and really bridge between business value business teams and the engineering teams. >>Got it. So just a couple more questions because we gotta wrap I want to talk a little bit about the business outcome. I know it's hard to quantify and I'll talk about that in a moment but but major learnings, we've got some of the challenges that you cited. I'll just put them up here. We don't have to go detailed into this, but I just wanted to share with some folks. But my question, I mean this is the advice for your peers question if you had to do it differently if you had a do over or a Mulligan as we like to say for you golfers, what would you do differently? Yeah, >>I mean can we start with from a from the transformational challenge that understanding that it's also high load of cultural change. I think this is this is important that a particular communication strategy needs to be put into place and people really need to be um supported. Right? So it's not that we go in and say well we have to change towards data mesh but naturally it's in human nature, you know, we're kind of resistance to to change right? Her speech uncomfortable. So we need to take that away by training and by communicating um chris we're gonna add something to that >>and definitely I think the point that I have also made before right we need to acknowledge that data mesh is an architecture of scale, right? You're looking for something which is necessary by huge companies who are vulnerable, data productive scale. I mean Dave you mentioned it right, there are a lot of advantages to have a centralized team but at some point it may make sense to actually decentralized here and at this point right? If you think about data Mash, you have to recognize that you're not building something on a green field. And I think there's a big learning which is also reflected here on the slide is don't underestimate your baggage. It's typically you come to a point where the old model doesn't doesn't broke anymore and has had a fresh right? We lost our trust in our data and actually we have seen certain risks that we're slowing down our innovation so we triggered that this was triggering the need to actually change something. So this transition implies that you typically have a lot of technical debt accumulated over years and I think what we have learned is that potentially we have decentralized some assets to earlier, this is not actually taking into account the maturity of the team where we are actually distributed to and now we actually in the face of correcting pieces of that one. Right? But I think if you if you if you start from scratch you have to understand, okay, is are my team is actually ready for taking on this new uh, this news capabilities and you have to make sure that business decentralization, you build up these >>capabilities and the >>teams and as Clements has mentioned, right, make sure that you take the people on your journey. I think these are the pieces that also here, it comes with this knowledge gap, right? That we need to think about hiring and literacy the technical depth I just talked about and I think the last piece that I would add now which is not here on the flight deck is also from our perspective, we started on the analytical layer because that's kind of where things are exploding, right, this is the thing that people feel the pain but I think a lot of the efforts that we have started to actually modernize the current state uh, towards data product towards data Mash. We've understood that it always comes down basically to a proper shape of our operational plane and I think what needs to happen is is I think we got through a lot of pains but the learning here is this need to really be a commitment from the company that needs to happen and to act. >>I think that point that last point you made it so critical because I I hear a lot from the vendor community about how they're gonna make analytics better and that's that's not unimportant, but but through data product thinking and decentralized data organizations really have to operationalize in order to scale. So these decisions around data architecture an organization, their fundamental and lasting, it's not necessarily about an individual project are why they're gonna be project sub projects within this architecture. But the architectural decision itself is an organizational, its cultural and what's the best approach to support your business at scale. It really speaks to to to what you are, who you are as a company, how you operate and getting that right, as we've seen in the success of data driven driven companies is yields tremendous results. So I'll ask each of you to give give us your final thoughts and then we'll wrap maybe >>maybe it quickly, please. Yeah, maybe just just jumping on this piece that you have mentioned, right, the target architecture. If we talk about these pieces right, people often have this picture of mind like OK, there are different kind of stages, we have sources, we have actually ingestion layer, we have historical transformation presentation layer and then we're basically putting a lot of technology on top of that kind of our target architecture. However, I think what we really need to make sure is that we have these different kind of viewers, right? We need to understand what are actually the capabilities that we need in our new goals. How does it look and feel from the different kind of personas and experience view? And then finally, that should actually go to the to the target architecture from a technical perspective um maybe just to give an outlook but what we're what we're planning to do, how we want to move that forward. We have actually based on our strategy in the in the sense of we would like to increase that to maturity as a whole across the entire company and this is kind of a framework around the business strategy and it's breaking down into four pillars as well. People meaning the data, cultural, data literacy, data organizational structure and so on that. We're talking about governance as Clements has actually mentioned that, right, compliance, governance, data management and so on. You talk about technology and I think we could talk for hours for that one. It's around data platform, better science platform and then finally also about enablement through data, meaning we need to understand that a quality data accessibility and the science and data monetization. >>Great, thank you christophe clement. Once you bring us home give us your final thoughts. >>Can't can just agree with christoph that uh important is to understand what kind of maturity people have to understand what the maturity level, where the company where where people organization is and really understand what does kind of some kind of a change replies to that those four pillars for example, um what needs to be taken first and this is not very clear from the very first beginning of course them it's kind of like Greenfield you come up with must wins to come up with things that we really want to do out of theory and out of different white papers. Um only if you really start conducting the first initiatives you do understand. Okay, where we have to put the starts together and where do I missed out on one of those four different pillars? People, process technology and governance. Right? And then that kind of an integration. Doing step by step, small steps by small steps not boiling the ocean where you're capable ready to identify the gaps and see where either you can fill um the gaps are where you have to increase maturity first and train people or increase your text text, >>you know Hello Fresh is an excellent example of a company that is innovating. It was not born in Silicon Valley which I love. It's a global company. Uh and I gotta ask you guys, it seems like this is an amazing place to work you guys hiring? >>Yes, >>definitely. We do >>uh as many rights as was one of these aspects distributing. And actually we are hiring as an entire company specifically for data. I think there are a lot of open roles serious. Please visit or our page from better engineering, data, product management and Clemens has a lot of rules that you can speak about. But yes >>guys, thanks so much for sharing with the cube audience, your, your pioneers and we look forward to collaborations in the future to track progress and really want to thank you for your time. >>Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Dave >>thank you for watching the cubes startup showcase made possible by A W. S. This is Dave Volonte. We'll see you next time. >>Yeah.

>>Mhm. >>The company Nutanix was founded as the world was coming out of the financial crisis in 2009 Cop Computing was still in its infancy but had shown the way for what was possible with automation and simplification of infrastructure provisioning and management at scale. Now what Nutanix did is it brought cloud concepts to data centers and created the market for hyper converged infrastructure, a software defined architecture that eliminated stovepipes in the heavy lifting Associated with traditional compute networking in storage management. Now in the first part of the next decade, Nutanix essentially set the standard for this new world, building a loyal customer base, reaching escape velocity and successfully going public in 2016. Fast forward to 2021 and much has changed. Cloud is no longer knew rather it's become a staple of the digital economy as we exit the isolation economy. The cloud is much different today. It's expanding to on prem and out to the edge. New connections are being made in hybrid and across cloud models and as such, connecting and managing infrastructure across these new clouds to create a facile experience for users irrespective of where the data lives. Has become a major priority for organizations. They don't want to waste time and money on making the plumbing work. But that's easier said than done as the market is evolving. So is Nutanix to meet these new customer challenges and opportunities and with me ahead of dot next the major event of the year for Nutanix customers is Monica Monica Kumar who is the senior vice president of marketing and cloud go to market for the company Monica always great to see you welcome back to the cube. >>Thank you so much. Dave I'm so happy to be here again. >>Okay, so you heard my little narrative upfront, what's your perspective on the cloud market and where your customers are in their journey? >>Well, as you said, Dave Cloud is a critical enabler for rapid growth for organizations now, it's no longer just uh you know, nice to have, it's become a must have for organizations to survive and thrive in this digital economy. Uh In fact I follow a lot of um surveys that are happening around cloud adoption and one of the key trends that's coming out is it's no longer just about I. T. Practitioners adopting cloud. In fact, 78% of C. X. O. S are looking to cloud to speed up transformation of the entire businesses. You know, 80% of business executives are looking to cloud to mitigate their risks of their companies and 87% of the executives view cloud as critical to achieving their corporate growth goals. So what we are now realizing is that hybrid multi cloud is becoming the preferred model Which means there is no one cloud that customers are using, they're using the right cloud for the right workload. In fact, according to Gartner Group, 81% of public cloud users are using more than two providers. So what's happening is increasingly businesses are relying on multiple public clouds and on premises to meet their needs and are looking for that flexibility and that's delivered by different cloud providers. Um We've done our own survey called Nutanix Enterprise cloud and that we do it every year and 86% of respondents in the last service said hybrid cloud is the ideal operating model. So the Net Net that we're hearing from our customers is cloud is not a destination, it's an operating model. Customers want the right cloud for the right workload and the right applications. >>Okay, awesome. So the world, great setup. Thank you. So the world is moving to multi cloud. I think there's not no debate on that and that is really the mainstream. That's the norm. Talk about where Nutanix fits into this new world. >>Absolutely. So we're at an inflection point as organizations are grappling with this complexity. Now, obviously you can imagine the more computing environments to use this complexity in running and managing those hybrid solutions across multiple clouds. When Nutanix is focused singularly on is making that cloud complexity invisible. So our customers can focus on their business outcomes. We are solving the complexity of running and managing multiple clouds, just like we did for infrastructure and data centers a decade ago when we first started as a company. Now with the Nutanix start platform enabling our customers to seamlessly connect their private and public clouds simply move applications, data licenses across any cloud, optimize the work replacement and costs all while leveraging a consistent set of services, tools and processes. So for us it's really, really crucial that we give customers the choice to pick the hardware. Of the choice, the cloud of their choice, the virtual machines, they want to deploy the containers and data and help them realize their entire hybrid multi cloud strategy. It's all about giving our customers that peace of mind to deploy and operate the apps and data across multiple clouds with ease and flexibility. >>All right, let's talk about dot next my I think I'm pretty sure my first dot next was the first one ever, which I think was 2015. It was pre I P O. The focus is obviously evolving what's the focus this year? >>Well, dot next has evolved to become the industry's leading hybrid multi cloud conference. It's almost here. It's taking place next week, september 28th, 23rd and this year's event will bring together it and cloud professionals from around the globe to explore the latest trends, solutions, best practices and hybrid, multi cloud technology. Now we're obviously gonna, you know, future a lot of thought leaders from within the industry as well as in general, you know, people that impact our lives in a positive manner. And we're going to really focus on topics around hybrid multi cloud hyper converged infrastructure, private cloud ABM organization, you know, kubernetes containers, how do you figure out which after deploy where? So you're gonna see a lot of focus on hybrid multi colored solutions this year we're going to have lots of real world stories, hands on labs, best practices for practitioners. And again as I said all the tools that attendees need to go back and then put to practice some of the hybrid multi cloud strategies that they would learn and dark next >>talk a little bit more Monica about the what's in it for me for for attendees, what can they expect? What are they going to be able to take away from from this conference? >>Well, so as I said, a conferences both for business leaders and I. T. Leaders and practitioners. So for the business leaders, as I said, they'll get to hear from the latest industry visionaries around where the world of cloud is moving to, what are the latest and greatest innovations and hybrid multi cloud technologies uh and how can they make the businesses more competitive? How can they, you know, create more business value for the organization by using these technologies. For the IOT practitioners, they will go away as I said, learning from their peers in how they are adopting cloud, what are some of the myths around cloud computing. Get some information on deployment details and the benefits some of the piers are realizing since they moved to new tenants for example, in general, since they've adopted, you know, hybrid multi cloud solutions, they will also be able to connect with their industry peers, access democrat pounds. Uh in fact one of the major uh spotlights and not next will be the test drive live uh practitioners can get hands on our technology and really test drive it during the event itself and learn how to create a hybrid cloud within an hour, learn how to deploy databases with a click of a button for example, so lots of great goodies there and oh by the way we have some amazing external speakers as well besides our own, you know engineers, executives and so on. We have a whole roster of third party speakers too. >>That's awesome. Now, you know, one of the other things too is one of the ways you were able to reach escape velocity as a company is you had a strong partner ecosystem I presume is going to be a partner network participating as well. >>Yes, absolutely, thank you for reminding me about that partnerships is very, very, very, very important in Nutanix. You know, it does take a village, we have a full day dedicated to our partners and partner technology and solutions. It's called the part exchange. It's on Monday September 20, so again we hope that you all will participate but also you'll see partners are embedded uh in our september 21st and 22nd agenda and programme as well which is the main two days of dot next. So partners are in our life and blood, they're part of our ecosystem. >>That's great. What's next for Nutanix as you head into 20, >>Well before I go there, I do want to focus on a couple more featured speakers. So for those of you who are interested in cybersecurity, we will have Theresa Patton, who is the first female white house C I O and a leading cybersecurity expert. She'll be speaking. I'm actually interviewing her as well. We have Rachel, so johnny who is the founder of Girls who code and marshall plan for moms. We have Gary Vaynerchuk who's the ceo of Winner Media who is an author and entrepreneur. So I do hope that folks will plan to join if not for the core hybrid, multi colored content but also for these amazing speakers and last but not least. Hey, if none of this excites you then we do have some amazing entertainment. We have john taylor of Duran, Duran and the electric fondue coke, Romeo also headlining our day to keynote. >>So fantastic. I love it. Okay, go ahead please. >>Well I was gonna say so now let me talk about So what's next? Well for us, what's next is really helping customers realize their full hybrid, multi cloud strategy and empower them to make the right cloud decisions. So in fact one of the things you're gonna see us launch next week is also a new brand campaign. It's called cloud on your terms and you'll see that all over plastered all over dot next and so on. We are fully invested in our customer success to help them build, run and operate anywhere to help them easily migrate to public cloud or stay on premises if they choose to. And ultimately to make cloud complexity invisible for our customers, >>you know uh cloud your way kind of thing. I love that. And I and I failed to mention one of the first conferences I went to next, I met some developers and I was like whoa, cool. Because you guys one of the first that really truly do infrastructure as a code and bring that on prem and now it's going across clouds. So September 20 you kick off the partner day, is that right? And then the big keynote start the 21st right >>And go through the 20 >>third. Yes, >>yes. And we have a lot of on demand content as well around the keynote. So it's gonna be a packed packed set of agenda and days and you can choose whatever content you want to attend and participate in. >>Excellent. You guys always put under great program so go there register, we'll see you there, Monica. Always a pleasure. Thanks so much. >>Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. >>All right. And we'll see you at dot next. This is Dave Volonte for the cube. >>Mhm mm

>>Hello and welcome back to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Great guests here cube alumni Stephen Chin, vice president of developer relations for jay frog Stephen, great to see you again this remote this time this last time was in person. Our last physical event. We had you in the queue but great to see you. Thanks for coming in remotely. >>No, no, I'm very glad to be here. And also it was, it was awesome to be in person at our s a conference when we last talked and the last year has been super exciting with a whole bunch of crazy things like the I. P. O. And doing virtual events. So we've, we're transitioning to the new normal. We're looking forward to things getting to be hybrid. >>Great success with jay frog. We've been documenting the history of this company, very developer focused the successful I. P. O. And just the continuation that you guys have transitioned beautifully to virtual because you know, developer company, it runs virtual, but also you guys have been all about simplicity for developers and and we've been talking for many, many years with you guys on this. This is the theme that dr khan again, this is a developer conference, not so much an operator conference, but more of a deva deV developer focused. You guys have been there from the beginning, um nationally reported on it. But talk about jay Frog and the Doctor partnership and why is this event so important for you? >>Yeah. So I think um like like you said, jay Frog has and always is a developer focused company. So we we build tools and things which which focus on developer use cases, how you get your code to production and streamlining the entire devoPS pipeline. And one of the things which which we believe very strongly in and I think we're very aligned with with doctor on this is having secure clean upstream dependencies for your Docker images for other package and language dependencies and um you know, with the announcement of dr khan and dr Hubbs model changing, we wanted to make sure that we have the best integration with doctor and also the best support for our customers on with Docker hub. So one of the things we did strategically is um, we um combined our platforms so um you can get the best in class developer tools for managing images from Docker. Um everyone uses their um desktop tools for for building and managing your containers and then you can push them right to the best container registry for managing Docker Images, which is the jay frog platform. And just like Docker has free tools available for developers to use. We have a free tier which integrates nicely what their offerings and one of the things which we collaborate with them on is for anybody using our free tier in the cloud. Um there's there's no limits on the Docker images. You can pull no rate limiting, no throttling. So it just makes a clean seamless developer experience to to manage your cloud native projects and applications. >>What's the role of the container registry in cloud NATO? You brought that up? But can you just expand on that point? >>Yeah. So I think when you when you're doing deployments to production, you want to make sure both that you have the best security so that you're making sure that you're scanning and checking for vulnerabilities in your application and also that you have a complete um traceability. Basically you need a database in a log of everything you're pushing out to production. So what container registries allow you to do is um they keep all of the um releases all of the Docker images which are pushing out. You can go back and roll back to a previous version. You can see exactly what's included in those Docker images. And we jay frog, we have a product called X ray which does deep scanning of container images. So it'll go into the Docker Image, it'll go into any packages installed, it'll go into application libraries and it does kind of this onion peel apart of your entire document image to figure out exactly what you're using. Are there any vulnerabilities? And the funny thing about about Docker Images is um because of the number of libraries and packages and installed things which you haven't given Docker Image. If you just take your released Docker Image and let it sit on the shelf for a month, you have thousands of vulnerabilities, just just buy it um, by accruing from different reported zero day vulnerabilities over time. So it's extremely important that you, you know what those are, you can evaluate the risk to your organization and then mitigated as quickly as possible. If there is anything which could impact your customers, >>you bring up a great point right there and that is ultimately a developer thing that's been, that's generational, you know what generation you come from and that's always the problem getting the patches in the old days, getting a new code updated now when you have cloud native, that's more important than ever. And I also want to get your thoughts on this because you guys have been early on shift left two years ago, shift left was not it was not a new thing for you guys ever. So you got shift left building security at the point of coding, but you're bringing up a whole another thing which is okay automation. How do you make it? So the developments nothing stop what they're doing and then get back and say, okay, what's out there and my containers. So so how do you simplify that role? Because that's where the partnership, I think really people are looking to you guys and Dakar on is how do you make my life easier? Bottom line, what's it, what's it, what's it about? >>Yeah. So I I think when you when you're looking at trying to manage um large applications which are deployed to big kubernetes clusters and and how you have kind of this, this um all this infrastructure behind it. One of the one of the challenges is how do you know what you have that in production? Um So what, how do you know exactly what's released and what dependencies are out there and how easily can you trace those back? Um And one of the things which we're gonna be talking about at um swamp up next week is managing the overall devops lifecycle from code all the way through to production. Um And we we have a great platform for doing package management for doing vulnerability scanning, for doing um ci cd but you you need a bunch of other tools too. So you need um integrations like docker so you can get trusted packages into your system. You need integrations with observe ability tools like data, dog, elastic and you need it some tools for doing incident management like Patriot duty. And what we've, what we've built out um is we built out an ecosystem of partner integrations which with the J frog platform at the center lets you manage your entire and and life cycle of um devops infrastructure. And this this addresses security. It addresses the need to do quick patches and fixes and production and it kind of stitches together all the tools which all of the successful companies are using to manage their fast moving continuous release cycle, um and puts all that information together with seamless integration with even developer tools which um which folks are using on a day to day basis, like slack jeer A and M. S. Teams. >>So the bottom line then for the developer is you take the best of breed stuff and put it, make it all work together easily. That right? >>Yeah. I mean it's like it's seamless from you. You've got an incidents, you click a button, it sticks Ajira ticket in for you to resolve. Um you can tie that with the code, commits what you're doing and then directly to the security vulnerability which is reported by X ray. So it stitches all these different tools and technologies together for a for a seamless developer experience. And I think the great relationship we have with Docker um offers developers again, this this best in class container management um and trusted images combined with the world's best container registry. >>Awesome. Well let's get into that container issue products. I think that's the fascinating and super important thing that you guys solve a big problem for. So I gotta ask you, what are the security risks of using unverified and outdated Docker containers? Could you share your thoughts on what people should pay attention to because if they got unverified and outdated Docker containers, you mentioned vulnerabilities. What are those specific risks to them? >>Yeah, so I there's there's a lot of um different instances where you can see in the news or even some of the new government mandates coming out that um if you're not taking the right measures to secure your production applications and to patch critical vulnerabilities and libraries you're using, um you end up with um supply chain vulnerability risks like what happened to solar winds and what's been fueling the recent government mandates. So I think there's a there's a whole class of of different vulnerabilities which um bad actors can exploit. It can actually go quite deep with um folks um exploiting application software. Neither your your company or in other people's systems with with the move to cloud native, we also have heavily interconnected systems with a lot of different attack points from the container to the application level to the operating system level. So there's multiple different attack vectors for people to get into your software. And the best defense is an organization against security. Vulnerabilities is to know about them quickly and to mitigate them and fix them in production as quickly as possible. And this requires having a fast continuous deployment strategy for how you can update your code quickly, very quick identification of vulnerabilities with tools like X ray and other security scanning tools, um and just just good um integration with tools developers are using because at the end of the day it's the developers who both are picking the libraries and dependencies which are gonna be pushed into production and also they're the ones who have to react and and fix it when there's a uh production incident, >>you know, machine learning and automation. And it's always, I love that tech because it's always kind of cool because it's it's devops in action, but you know, it's it's not like a silver bullet, your machine, your machine learning is only as good as your your data and the code is written on staying with automation. You're not automating the right things or or wrong things. It's all it's all subjective based on what you're doing and you know Beauty's in the eye of the beholder when you do things like that. So I wanna hear your thoughts on on automation because that's really been a big part of the story here, both on simplicity and making the load lighter for developers. So when you have to go out and look at modifying code updates and looking at say um unverified containers or one that gets a little bit of a hair on it with with with more updates that are needed as we say, what do you what's the role of automation? How do you guys view that and how do you talk to the developers out there when posturing for a strategy on and a playbook for automation? >>Yeah, I think you're you're touching on one of the most critical parts of of any good devops um platform is from end to end. Everything should be automated with the right quality gates inserted at different points so that if there's a um test failure, if you have a build failure, if you have a security vulnerability, the the automatic um points in there will be triggered so that your release process will be stopped um that you have automated rollbacks in production um so that you can make sure that their issues which affect your customers, you can quickly roll back and once you get into production um having the right tools for observe ability so that you can actually sift through what is a essentially a big data problem. So with large systems you get so much data coming back from your application, from the production systems, from all these different sources that even an easy way to sift through and identify what are the messages coming back telling you that there's a problem that there's a real issue that you need to address versus what's just background noise about different different processes or different application alerts, which really don't affect the security of the functionality of your applications. So I think this this end to end automation gives you the visibility and the single pane of glass to to know how to manage and diagnose your devops infrastructure. >>You know, steve you bring up a great point. I love this conversation because it always highlights to me why I love uh Coop Con and Cloud Native con part of the C N C F and dr khan, because to me it's like a microcosm of two worlds that are living together. Right? You got I think Coop khan has proven its more operated but not like operator operator, developer operators. And you got dr khan almost pure software development, but now becoming operators. So you've got that almost those two worlds are fusing together where they are running together. You have operating concerns like well the Parachute open, will it work? And how do I roll back these roll back? These are like operating questions that now developers got to think about. So I think we're seeing this kind of confluence of true devops next level where you can't you can be just a developer and have a little bit of opposite you and not be a problem. Right? Or or get down under the under the hood and be an operator whenever you want. So they're seeing a flex. What's your thoughts on this is just more about my observation kind of real time here? >>Yeah, so um I think it's an interesting, obviously observation on the industry and I think you know, I've been doing DEVOPS for for a long time now and um I started as a developer who needed to push to production, needed to have the ability to to manage releases and packages and be able to automate everything. Um and this naturally leads you on a path of doing more operations, being able to manage your production, being able to have fewer incidents and issues. Um I think DEVOPS has evolved to become a very complicated um set of tools and problems which it solves and even kubernetes as an example. Um It's not easy to set up like setting up a kubernetes cluster and managing, it is a full time job now that said, I think what you're seeing now is more and more companies are shifting back to developers as a focus because teams and developers are the kingmakers ends with the rise of cloud computing, you don't need a full operations team, you don't need a huge infrastructure stack, you can you can easily get set up in the cloud on on amazon google or as your and start deploying today to production from from a small team straight from code to production. And I think as we evolve and as we get better tools, simpler ways of managing your deployments of managing your packages, this makes it possible for um development teams to do that entire site lifecycle from code through to production with good quality checks with um good security and also with the ability to manage simple production incidents all by themselves. So I think that's that's coming where devoPS is shifting back to development teams. >>It's great to have your leadership and your experience. All right there. That's a great call out, great observation, nice gym there. I think that's right on. I think to get your thoughts if you don't mind going next level because you're, you're nailing what I see is the successful companies having these teams that could be and and workflows and have a mix of a team. I was talking about Dana Lawson who was the VP of engineering get up and she and I were riffing on this idea that you don't have to have a monolithic team because you've got you no longer have a monolithic environment. So you have this microservices and now you can have these, I'm gonna call micro teams, but you're starting to see an SRE on the team, that's the developer. Right? So this idea of having an SRE department maybe for big companies, that could be cool if you're hyper scalar, but these development teams are having certain formations. What's your observation to your customer base in terms of how your customers are organizing? Because I think you nailed the success form of how teams are executing because it's so much more agile, you get the reliability, you need to have security baked in, you want end to end visibility because you got services starting and stopping. How are teams? How are you seeing developers? What's the state of the art in your mind for formation? >>Yeah, so I think um we we work with a lot of the biggest companies who were really at the bleeding edge of innovation and devoPS and continuous delivery. And when you look at those teams, they have, they have very, very small teams, um supporting thousands of developers teams um building and deploying applications. So um when you think of of SRE and deVOPS focus there is actually a very small number of those folks who typically support humongous organizations and I think what we're hearing from them is their increasingly getting requirements from the teams who want to be self service, right? They want to be able to take their applications, have simple platforms to deploy it themselves to manage things. Um They don't they don't want to go through heavy way processes, they wanted to be automated and lightweight and I think this is this is putting pressure on deVOPS teams to to evolve and to adopt more platforms and services which allow developers to to do things themselves. And I think over time um this doesn't this doesn't get rid of the need for for devops and for SRE roles and organizations but it it changes because now they become the enablers of success and good development teams. It's it's kind of like um like how I. T. Organizations they support you with automated rollouts with all these tools rather than in person as much as they can do with automation. Um That helps the entire organization. I think devops is becoming the same thing where they're now simplifying and automating how developers can be self service and organizations. >>And I think it's a great evolution to because that makes total sense because it is kind of like what the I. T. Used to do in the old days but its the scale is different, the services are different, the deVOPS tools are different and so they really are enabling not just the cost center there really driving value. Um and this brings up the whole next threat. I'd love to get your thoughts because you guys are, have been doing this for developers for a while. Tools versus platform because you know, this whole platform where we're a platform were control plane, there's still a need for tooling for developers. How do we thread the needle between? What's, what's good for a tool? What's good for a platform? >>Yeah, So I I think that um, you know, there's always a lot of focus and it's, it's easier if you can take an end to end platform, which solves a bunch of different use cases together. But um, I I think a lot of folks, um, when you're looking at what you need and how you want to apply, um, devops practices to your organization, you ideally you want to be able to use best in breed tools to be able to solve exactly what your use cases. And this is one of the reasons why as a company with jay frog, we we try to be as open as possible to integrations with the entire vendor ecosystem. So um, it doesn't matter what ci cd tool you're using, you could be using Jenkins circle, ci spinnaker checked on, it doesn't matter what observe ability platform you're using in production, it doesn't matter what um tools you're using for collaboration. We, we support that whole ecosystem and we make it possible for you to select the the best of breed tools and technologies that you need to be successful as an organization. And I think the risk is if, if you, if you kind of accept vendor lock in on a single platform or or a single cloud platform even um then you're, you're not getting the best in breed tools and technologies which you need to stay ahead of the curve and devops is a very, very fast moving um, um, discipline along with all the cloud native technologies which you use for application development and for production. So if you're, if you're not staying at the bleeding edge and kind of pushing things forward, then you're then you're behind and if you're behind, you're not be able to keep up with the releases, the deployments, you need to be secure. So I think what you see is the leading organizations are pushing the envelope on on security, on deployment and they're they're using the best tools in the industry to make that happen. >>Stephen great to have you on the cube. I want to just get your thoughts on jay frog and the doctor partnership to wrap this up. Could you take them in to explain what's the most important thing that developers should pay attention to when it comes to security for Docker images? >>Yeah. So I think when you're when you're developer and you're looking at your your security strategy, um you want tools that help you that come to you and that help you. So you want things which are going to give you alerts in your I. D. With things which are going to trigger your in your Ci cd and your build process. And we should make it easy for you to identify mitigate and release um things which will help you do that. So we we provide a lot of those tools with jay frog and our doctor partnership. And I think if you if you look at our push towards helping developers to become more productive, build better applications and more secure applications, this is something the entire industry needs for us to address. What's increasingly a risk to software development, which is a higher profile vulnerabilities, which are affecting the entire industry. >>Great stuff. Big fan of jay frog watching you guys be so successful, you know, making things easy for developers is uh, and simpler and reducing the steps it takes to do things as a, I say, is the classic magic formula for any company, Make it easier, reduce the steps it takes to do something and make it simple. Um, good success formula. Great stuff. Great to have you on um for a minute or two, take a minute to plug what's going on in jay frog and share what's the latest increase with the company, what you guys are doing? Obviously public company. Great place to work, getting awards for that. Give the update on jay frog, put a plug in. >>Yeah. And also dr Frog, I've been having a lot of fun working at J frog, it's very, very fast growing. We have a lot of awesome announcements at swamp up. Um like the partnerships were doing um secure release bundles for deployments and just just a range of advances. I think the number of new features and innovation we put into the product in the past six months since I. P. O. Is astounding. So we're really trying to push the edge on devops um and we're also gonna be announcing and talking about stuff that dr khan as well and continue to invest in the cloud native and the devops ecosystem with our support of the continuous delivery foundation and the C. N C F, which I'm also heavily involved in. So it's it's exciting time to be in the devoPS industry and I think you can see that we're really helping software developers to improve their art to become better, better at release. Again, managing production applications >>and the ecosystem is just flourishing. It's only the beginning and again Making bring the craft back in Agile, which is a super big theme this year. Stephen. Great, great to see you. Thanks for dropping those gems and insights here on the Cube here at Dr. 2021 virtual. Thanks for coming on. >>Yeah. Thank you john. >>Okay. Dr. 2020 coverage virtual. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah.

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. >>This is a cube conversation >>live on. Welcome to the Special Cube Virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online. This is an event of virtual event by AWS. We're covering with the Virtual Cube his Amazon, so it would have no >>looking started. We started. Thank you. Right >>everyone, welcome to this Special Cube. Virtual coverage of the AWS Summit Virtual Online This is an event that Amazon normally has in person in San Francisco, but now it's virtual around the world. Seoul, Korea, in Tokyo, all over the world, in Asia Pacific and in North America, I'm John Furrier Dave Jones Stew Minimum. Let's do We're kicking off aws Virtual with the Cube Virtual. I'm in Palo Alto with the quarantine crew. You're in Massachusetts in Boston when the quarantine crew there still great to have you on to talk about AWS Virtual summit. >>Yeah, John, it's it's great to see you. Ah, it's been ah, you know, interesting times doing all these remote interviews A Z Many of us say I don't blame hotels, but I do miss the communities I do miss the hallway conversation. But great to see you, John. Love the Midnight Madness shirt. We >>want to thank Amazon for stepping up with some sponsorship for allow us to do the Virtual Cube alongside their virtual event because now it's a global community. It's all virtual. There are no boundaries. The Cube has no boundaries to We've got a great program. We have Cory Quinn coming up. Expect to hear from him last week in AWS is known for is a rising star in the community. Certainly Cube guest and also guest host and analyst for the Cube. We spent to hear all the latest from his big zoom post controversy to really what's going on in AWS around what services are hot. I know you're going to a great interview with him, but that's not what Amazon we're seeing a ton of activity, obviously, most recently last week was the jet, I think, which was an agency protest kind of confidential. Microsoft blew that up big time with a post by their worldwide comes person. Frank Shaw countered by Drew Heard Who's the coms globally for end of us and so a war of words is ensuing. This is again pointing to the cloud Native War that's going on with a jet I conference gets Jedi contract a $10 billion which is awards to Microsoft. This shows that the heat is on to do. This is a absolute bloodbath between AWS and Microsoft. We're seeing it play out now virtually with Amazon ai Large scale cloud. This is huge. This is this is another level. A def con one. Basically your thoughts. >>Yeah, John, you know, you've covered this really well and really impressing plot number one you talk about You know, this requirement When AWS launched the govcloud had the CIA as a client early on many years ago. It was the green light for many companies to go from. Wait. Is the club secure enough? Do well, good enough for the federal government in the US It's probably good enough for the enterprise. When Microsoft one jet I they didn't have all the certifications to meet what was in the contract? They had a ticking clock. Make sure that they could meet those security engagements. Aziz. Well, as you know what, one of the pieces the esports that move was working, made a partnership announced with Azure. We know the federal government uses Oracle quite a bit, though they can now run that in azure and not have the penalties from Oracle. So you know that many have said, you know Hey, AWS, why don't you kind of let that one go? You got federal business, but those ripple effect we understand from one contract kind of move things around. >>Well, my take on this is just the tip of the teapot. Either Microsoft's got something that we don't know where they're running scared. My predictions do is that the clock is gonna take out D o. D. Is going award the contract again to Microsoft because I don't think the d. O. D. Wants to change basically on the data that I'm getting from my reporting. And then, ultimately Amazon will keep this going in court because Microsoft has been deficient on winning the deal. That is by the judge and in government contracts. As you know, when you're deficient, you're ineligible. So, essentially on the tech specs, Microsoft failed to meet the criteria the contract and they're deficient. They still can't host top secret content even if they wanted to. This is going to be a game changer when if this comes out to be true, it will be a huge tech scandal. If it's true, then am I gonna have egg on their face? OK, so we passed. This speaks to the large scale problems that are having with Cove it. You're seeing Amazon. They're all working at home, but they still got to run the servers. They >>can do >>it. They got cloud native. You've got Dev ops. But for their customers to be people who are trying to do hybrid. What >>are you >>hearing in terms of the kinds of situations that people are doing? Are they still going to work with maths on our There's still data centers that need to be managed. What >>are >>you hearing in the tech world's do around Covad 19. And as the cloud becomes more apparent, it's obvious that if you're not cloud native, you're going to be on the wrong side of history. Here is pretty obvious. >>Yeah, well, absolutely. John. There there is a bit of a Elwyn behind cloud. Everything from you mentioned work from home. Everybody needs to be on their VPN. They need to access their service access their services where they are. If you've got a global workforce, if you thought that your infrastructure was going to be able to handle that, you might not be in for a WS is meeting that need. There's been some of the cloud providers that have had performance issues have had to prioritize which customers can get access to things AWS standing strong. They're meeting their customers and their answering the call of cloud. You know, we know that AWS puts a huge investment into their environment. If you compare an availability zone from AWS, you know, it is very, very sturdy. It's not just, you know, a you know, a small cluster on. And they say, Hey, we can run all over the place, you know, to be specific It's, you know, John Azure has been having some of those performance issues and has been from concerns. Corey actually wrote a really good article talking about that. It actually put a bad you on public cloud in general. But we know not all public cloud with the same, though, you know, Google has been doing quite well, you know. Managing the demand spike, though, has AWS. Microsoft has needed to respond a little bit. >>It's just mentioned Microsoft's outages. Microsoft actually got caught on eight K filing, which you just have to be going through, and they noticed that they said they had all this up. Time for the cloud. Turns out it wasn't the cloud. It was the teams product. They had to actually put a strike a line through it legally. So a lot of people getting called out, it doesn't matter. It's a crisis. I think that's not gonna be a core issue is gonna be what technology has been needed the most. And I got to ask you still, when was the last time you and I talked about virtual desktops? Because, hey, if you're working at home and you're not at your desk, you need might need some stuff on your desk. This >>is a real issue. >>I mean, it's a >>kind >>of a corner case in tech, but virtual desktops. If >>you're not >>at the office, you need to have that at home. This is a huge issue. It's been a surge >>in demand. Yeah, there were jokes in the community that you know, finally, it's the year of VD I, but desktop as a service. John is an area that took a little while to get going. You know, Dave Volante and I were just having about this. You and Dave interviewed me when Amazon released workspaces, and it was like, Ah, you know, Citrix is doing so well and VD I, you know, isn't the hotness anymore, But that's not service as grown. If you talk about desktop as a service compared to V i p. I is still, you know, a bit of a heavy lift. Even if you've got, you know, hyper converged infrastructure. Roll this out. It's a couple of months to put these whole solutions together. Now, if you have some of that in perspective, can you scale it and you build them up much faster? Yes, you can. But if you're starting to enable your workforce a little bit faster, desktop as a service is going to be faster. AWS has a strong solution with work base. Is it really is that enablement? And it's also putting pressure on the SAS providers. One. They need scale and do they need to be responsive that some of their customers need to scale up really fast and some of them dial things down. Always worry about some of these on track that the SAS providers, but you in. So you know, customers need to make sure they're being loud and clear with their providers. If you need help. If you need to adjust something, you know, push back on them because they should be responsive because we know that there is a broad impact on this. But it will not be a permanent impact, though you know, these are the times that companies need to work closely with customers because otherwise you will. You will either make a customer for life, or you will have somebody that will not be saying about you for a long >>while. Still, let's just quickly run through some of the highlights so far on the virtual conference virtual event. Aussie Amazon Pre announced last month the Windows Migration Service, which has been a big part of their business. They've been doing it for 11 years, so we're gonna have an interview with an AWS person to talk about that also app Flows announced as well as part of the virtual kind of private, you know, private checks. So you're seeing that right here. Large scale data lakes breaking down those silos, moving data from the cloud from the console into the top. Applicants like Salesforce is a big one. That was kind of pre announced. The big story here is the Kendra availability and the augmented AI availability. Among other things, this is the big story. This kind of shows the Amazon track record they pre announced at reinvent, trying to run as fast as they can to get it shipping the focus of AI. The focus of large scale capacity, whether it's building on top of GC, too. Server list. Lambda ai. All this is kind of coming together data, high capacity, operational throughput and added value. That seems to be the highlights. Your reaction? >>Yeah, John, You know, at flow is an interesting one. We were just talking about asp providers. An area that we've been spending a lot of time talking with. The system is you know, my data is all over the place, you know? Yes, there's my data centers public, but there's all of these past provides. So, you know, if I have data in service now, I have it in workday. I have a sales force you know, how do I have connectors there? How do I You're that How do I protect that, though? Amazon, you know, working with a broad ecosystem and helping to pull that together. Eyes definitely an interesting one. What? Kendra definitely been some good buzz in the ecosystem for a while. They're You know, the question is on natural language processing and a I, you know, where are the customers with these deployments? Because some of them, if they're a little bit more long term, Egypt might be the kind of projects that get put on pause rather than the ones that are critical for me to run the business today. >>And I just did a podcast with the VM ware ecosystem last week talking about which projects will be funded. Which ones won't. It brings up this new virtual work environment where, you know, some people are going to get paid and some people aren't. If you're not core to the enterprise, you're probably not going to get paid. If you're not getting a phone call to come into work, you're probably gonna get fired. So there will be project that will be cut and projects that will be funded certainly virtual events, which I want to talk to you about in a minute to applications that are driving revenue and or engagement around the new workforce. So the virtualization of business is happening now. We joke because we know server virtualization actually enabled the cloud. Right? So I think there's going to be a huge Cambrian explosion of applications. So I want to get your thoughts. The folks you've been talking to the past few months, what are you hearing in terms of those kinds of projects that people will be leaning into and funding versus ones they might put on hold? Have you heard anything? >>Yeah. Well, you know, John, it's interesting when you go back at its core, what is AWS and they want to enable built. So, you know, the last couple of years we've been talking about all of the new applications that will get built. That's not getting put on hold, Jones. You know it. What? I do not just to run the business but grow the business. I need the We'll have applications at the core of what we do. Data and applications, Really. Or what? Driving companies today. So that piece is so critically important and therefore AWS is a very strategic partner there. >>I'm saying the same things Do I think the common trend that I would just add to that would be I'm seeing companies looking at the covert crisis is the opportunity and frankly in some cases, an excuse to lay people off, and that's kind of you're seeing some of that. But the >>end of >>the day that people are resetting, reinventing and then putting new growth strategies together that still doesn't change business still needs to get done. So great point. It's to virtual events were here with the AWS summit. Normally run the show floor. The Cube. We're here with the Virtual Cube doing our virtual thing. It's been interesting to a lot of our events have converted to virtual. Some have been canceled, but most of them have been been running on the virtual. We've been plugged in, but the cube is evolving, and I want to get your thoughts on how you see the Cube evolving. I've been getting a lot of questions that came again on the VM Ware community podcast. How is the Cube morphed and I know that we've been working hard with a lot of our customers. How have we evolved? Because we're >>in the >>middle of this digital way, this virtualization away. The Cube is in there. We've been successful. That's been different use cases. Some have been embedded into the software. Amazon's got their own run a show. But events are more than just running the show content. >>Yeah, more John, >>more community behind us to your thoughts and how well Cube has evolved. And what are you seeing? >>I'm glad, John. You just mentioned community. So you know, you and I have talked many times on air that, you know, the Cube is much network in the community as it is a media company. So, you know, first of all, it's been so heartening over the last couple of months that we've been putting out. We're still getting some great feedback from the community. One of things I personally miss is, you know, when we step off the stage and you walk the hallway and you bump into people that know when they ask your questions were you know, they share some of the things that they're going through. That data that we always look for is something we still need. So I'm making sure that reach out to friends, you know, diving back into the social channels to make sure that we understand the pulse of what's going on. But you know, John, you know, our community has always been online, though a big piece of the Cube is relatively unchanged. Other than we're doing all the interviews, we have to deal with everyone's home systems in home network. Every once in a while you hear a dog barking in the background or, you know, a child running, but it actually humanized. So there's that opportunity or the communities to rally together. Some of my favorite interviews have been, you know, the open source communities that are gathering together toe work on common issues, a lot of them specifically for the global endemic, you know, And so there are some really good stories out there. I worry when you talk about companies that are think, Hey, this There have been so many job losses in this pandemic that it just is heartbreak. So, you know, we've loved when the tech community is helping to spur new opportunities, great new industries. I had a great interview that I did with our friends from a cloud guru, and they've seen about a 20 to 30% increase on people taking the online training. And one of the main things that they're taking training on is the one on one courses on AWS on Google and on Azure, as well as an interesting point. John, they said, Multi cloud is something that come up. So you know, 2020 we've been wondering. Is aws going to admit that multi cloud is a thing, or are they going to stick with their hybrid message and, you know, as their partners not talk about? It's >>been interesting on the virtual queue because we and Amazon's been a visionary and this leading Q B virtual with them. It's become a connective tissues to between the community. And if you think about how much money the companies they're saving by not running the physical events and with the layoffs, as you mentioned, I think that could be an opportunity for the Cube to be that connective tissue to bring people together. I think that's the mission that we hope will unfold, but ultimately, digital investments will probably go up from this. I'm seeing a lot of great conversion around. Okay, So the content, What does it mean to me? Is that my friend group are my friends involved? How do I learn? How do I discover? How do I connect? And I think the interesting thing about the Cube is we've seen that up front. And I think there's a positive sign of heads do around virtualization of the media and the community. And I think it's going to be economic opportunity. And I hope that we could help people find either jobs or ways to re engage and reconnect. So again, reinvents coming. You got VM World. All >>these big shows do They dropped so much cash. Can you answer? They >>put all that cash with the community. I think that's a viable scenario. >>Yeah. No, Absolutely. John. There there is, you know, big money and events, you know? Yes, there are less cost. They're also, you know, almost none of them are charging for people to attend, and very few of them are urging the bunker. So, you know, big shift in and how we have to look at these. It needs to be a real focus on content. I mean from our standpoint, John, from day one. We've been doing this a decade now. In the early days when it was a wing and a prayer on the technology, it was always about the content. And the best people help extract that signal from the noise. So, you know, some things have changed the mission overall days. >>And you know what? Amazon is being humble. They're saying we're figuring it out. Of course, we're psyched that we're there with the Virtual Cube students do. Thanks for spending the time kicking off this virtual coverage wrap up. Not >>as good as face to face. >>Love to be there on site. But I think it's easy to get guests used to in the virtual world. But we're gonna go to a hybrid as soon as it comes back to normal. Sounds like clouds to public hybrid virtual. There it is too. Thanks so much. Okay, that's the cube coverage for AWS Summit. Virtual online. That's the Cube virtual coverage. I'm sure. First Amendment, Thanks for watching. Stay tuned for the next segment. Yeah, >>yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome Back. We're here at the San Diego Convention Center for Sisqo Live 2019 30th year The show. 28,000 in attendance. I'm stupid, and we're actually at the midpoint of three days of life water wall coverage here and happy to bring back to the program to Cube alumni first. To my right is Ben I, who is the CEO of Turban on Mick. And sitting next to him is Thomas wide, who's the chief marketing and strategy officer of AP Dynamics or APD? Ia's everybody calls them here at the show. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. All right, So, Thomas, first of all, we had you on it, reinvent like soon after the acquisition of AP ti Bisys. Go. It's been about two years, and I believe it's been about two years that turban Onyx been partnering with Cisco. So let's start with you. And you know what? What changed in those two years? >> Yeah, it's been amazing. Two years ago, we were on the doorstep of an I P O and it's been a rocketship ride ever since. You know AP Dynamics. After the last two years, the businesses more than doubled team sizes more than doubled, and today we're really happy to be the largest and fastest growing provider of application for miss monitoring in the market. But the reason why, that is, is because our customers are embarking on the sigil transformation, and the application has really become the foundation of their modern day business. That's the way brands are engaging with their users. And but now more than ever, and then the application landscape has gotten way more complex, with micro services and multiple clouds and all of the threats that go on in the infrastructure. And so what Hap Dynamics has been doing is just really providing that really time business and application performance that our customers need to ensure business outcomes. We think of ourselves as Thie Marie for the application or the infrastructure. >> That's awesome. So then, you know it's been interesting to watch in the networking space the last few years. For the most part, applications used to be That's just this thing that ran through the pipes every once in a while, I need to, you know, think about performance. I need to make sure I got buffer credits or, you know, it's now going East West rather the north south and the like. But it was solutions like turban on IQ that sat on top of it and helped understand and help people manage their application. Of course. AP ti pulling that story together even tighter. So, you know, give us the latest we've talked to you. It's just go live before an important partnership. What was the latest in your world, >> boy? The well, so one of the things we're doing is we're building an actual bundle together without D. And if you think about a PM, you're getting the application topology as well as response time and use a response time, which is critical to maintaining the brand and the digital economy that we're talking about. What when you look at every one of those hops and the application of there's a entire application stack that sits underneath a resource ing stack and what we're doing is we're bringing in a R M, which is application re sourcing management with a I so that they're automatically adjusting the resource is in all times continuously in order to support the performance needs that Abdi is showing us when you put together a PM plus a r m. You have total application performance and that customers air really, uh, queuing to so much so that we've actually decided to put this bundle officially together in the marketplace. We just became the first ap TI re sell software product, and now we're taking not to market as C one plus happy. >> Well, congratulations on that is harder ship, Thomas. Bring us inside the customers a little bit. What does this mean for them? You know what that journey we talk about, you know, for, you know, last 10 15 years, you gotta break down those silos. It's not just the networking team, you know, tossing over some band within Leighton, see and write them coming back. And I need some more. No, no, we're not going. You know, we're not going to give you any service level agreement or anything like that, because that's not our job. To what? We'll just set this up and you use what you got. So what would happen in >> trend that we're seeing is a move toward this concept of a iob, which is the really the consolidation of bringing and user application network and infrastructure monitoring closer together and tying that together with a base insights to Dr Automation and Action and very similar to what turbo gnomic specializes in here. And so what we're seeing is, you know, the combination of Cisco plus APP Dynamics. Plus, companies like Turbo is beginning to build that self healing, self learning environment where developers and environments need to be able to drive automation on that. Automation ultimately gets tomb or innovation when you can reduce the mundane tasks, really take a lot of our developers time. And so we're really excited about some of the work we're doing together when you think about the ability to take really time business insights from the application and reprogrammed the network based on the needs of the AP or change out the workloads and move them around on different servers, depending on the needs of the AP, these are all things that combination of Turbo, Cisco and epidemics are doing together. >> Yeah, actually, I did a whole show down in D. C a couple months ago, Cisco Partner. We're focused on a I ops. And, you know, we understand customers had a lot of tools that they have to deal with. We need to simplify this environment, allow them tow, you know, focus on their business, not managing this complex environment of all these tools. How does that whole concept of II ops and, you know, automating this environment managing my workloads? You know what? What do you sing with your customers? >> I think all the customers are saying, Look, there's too many tools today. They don't need another resource monitor, et cetera. What they need is they need to understand, through the lens of the application, all the resource dependencies. So instead of looking at a field of servers and saying, I have five nines availability or storage or whatever, what they really want to see is whatever the servers and storage and resource is dependent on this specific up that runs the bank or the CPD company of the manufacturer. And can I make sure that those re sources are supporting performance of the application? And that's is this total application performance concept, much more so than than whether I have five nines availability and all my other host accents? >> Yeah, absolutely. Did you have a comment on other Guy's >> gonna say We're seeing so many different customers in different verticals, Whether it's retail, hospitality, automakers, they're all benefitting from the cloud migration. And now that they have the cloud migration, the ability to have that elasticity of their workloads, they're scaling in and out based on the application demands. This is becoming critical. This is no longer a luxury for the most cloud eight of companies in the world. Enterprises with mission critical systems are all becoming dependent on these more modern technologies. And I think they need partners like ours more than ever. >> Yeah, One of the questions we've had is you talk to customers today and they are multi cloud. But that multiyear hybrid cloud is a bunch of pieces and one of our premises. We ask, from a research standpoint, how can this some of those pieces be more valuable than just the independent pieces alone, you know, kind of one plus one with, you know, an extra factor talk a little bit about the customers. And also, you know, what does this combination do that I couldn't just, you know, grab these pieces together and kind of make it work in my portfolio of those, you know, dozens of tools that I have. >> What glad. But I think the customers one of things this needed. We literally announced his partnership publicly two weeks ago and already have closed the 1st 2 just out of momentum that that folks are realizing the need to be able to say, Look, I can host my applications on Prem with a number of different vendors, I can host my applications off Prem with a number of different vendors. But the real question is, where am I going to get the most performance? Where can I do it in a compliant way with all my policies and how can I make sure that I'm doing it cost effectively? And when there's a multiplicity of tradeoffs where I can choose, then it's incumbent upon each of those vendors, strategic as they are to be able to offer the best service, the best performance, the best compliance and resource ing, and that's what we're bringing to him. And I think that's why you're seeing that a pipeline is built to several double digit millions and already deals are closing everything I'd >> add to that Is that, you know, going back to the point around a ops in the evolution of a lot of these modern ing and automation technologies. >> A lot of our >> customers have a hybrid environment of different tools and providers that they leverage. And so one of the things that were really focused on is an open ecosystem where you'd be able to ingest data sources from various different players. Some of them can be Cisco, Turman, Onyx and Abdi. But some of them can be other providers that are also have very good products in very specific domains. I think the key is that being ableto be ableto bring that data together, Dr Cross domain correlation in a more automated way than ever before, leveraging some of the more modern AI ai capabilities, which drives the action ing that people really need. And that is really the automation step is where customers start to see the benefits. But I think the better and more valuable the data that you have, the better automation you could do because your predictability of your algorithms are much better at that >> point. All right, been your customers that have rolled out that this solution I know the joint solutions brand new. But what? What is then the key metrics? Howto they define success how today they know you know that they they've reached that success. >> So first and foremost, the line of business. Who's the customer to central it? Whether it's hosted or not, they care the most. That performance does not degrade and is always improving. Okay, But when they do that and they can show that, then a ll the decision that the rest of central takes down in fromthe container layer to the pods that a virtual to the cloud I asked on Prem in off those become acceptable choices for central i t. To make because fundamentally, Lina businesses saying, Yep, we're good, right? So that's where we're seeing the value of being able to see the response time and bridging the application performance to the application resource ing that frankly hasn't ever been solved in five decades of it. And I think it goes back to a Thomas was just saying It's the quality of the analytics that comes from a iob. I don't think people need more tools to capture more data. There's a lot of data out there. The question is, can you make it actionable? And are your analytics correct? And, frankly, are they the best? And I think we see that that's been a big parcel of what we've done during the two years Cisco's told us on multiple occasions it's the fastest software O AM they've had by bringing it through, starting with the data center team and growing up through traditional Cisco and then with their purchase of Abdi two years ago. That combination makes a ton of sense, and now you've got the top all the way to the bottom. And that's a pretty special spot, I think un replicated by any other strategic today. Yeah, the other thing, >> I just added, That is the importance of being able to monitor the business in real time as well. And so a lot of what we've talked about are the technology analytics, the operational analytics that we run our business on, but being able to correlate the business transactions running through the application, so users what their journey looks like, they're, you know, abandonment, rates, revenues, you know, the ability to engage with the users, tying that back to the specific infrastructure in a way that's used to be a bit of black box before. Now that all comes a life by the combination of these technologies. >> So Thomas big trends we see at this show. So a Cisco's transformation towards a software company and the world of multi cloud abdi plays a pretty important piece of that. You know, discussion. Talk a little bit about kind of where you are and you know where do you see Cisco moving along that journey and then, you know, help tie in where turban Ah, Mick Fitz. >> Yeah. So I think it really goes back to the fact that as our customers are making this digital transformation, they're really looking at a variety of infrastructures. You know, cloud providers to be able to offer these applications. And what Appdynamics has done is really created this monitoring fabric that sits across any infrastructure and it tightly ties to the business value of the application. So if you combine that with a lot of what Cisco's doing around connectivity securing the clouds, securing the infrastructure around it and tying that Teo where we're strong and networking and bringing all that together, I think fundamentally, we've got a lot of the pieces of the puzzle to truly enable a i ops, but we don't have them all. And I think that's what's important, that we partner with people like Ben because it brings together a set of automation capability around application resource ing that we don't have and our customers are better suited working with with Ben and team on that. So how do we integrate those things in a frictionless way and make that part of our sales process? That's really what this partnerships all about. >> All right, then where do we see the partnership going down the road? >> I think it's going to get more exciting. So right now we're pulling unit Election Lee from Abdi. I think we're going to go right back the other way. That Thomas referred to, which is one of my favorite parts of Abdi. Is the business like you? Yeah, it's where you say, What is the cost of the late and see in anyone? Hop and where do the Bandon rates? Abandonment rates happen from consumers on that application right now, we can price for the first time what's the cost of the late sea in that one tear and across the across the application overall. And then, more importantly, what do we do about it? Well, that's the resource ing and the digestion is being resolved in real time. And so I think, the ability look att, the resiliency of applications both across and up and down the a p m plus the a r m and being able to guarantee or assure performance, total application performance. That's a big message. >> All right, what would I give you both? Just fun. A word here, you know, about halfway through the conference here in San Diego. Thomas, >> I would just say that the energy that we're seeing, the feedback we're getting from customers in the business insights part of the world of solutions been phenomenal. I think there's so many more developer oriented, application developer oriented individuals that's just go live than ever before. And I think that serves both of our business is quite well. >> Look, I think this has been a great show, but one of the things you're going to see is all of these vendors who have had global presence for in this case, 30 years. Sisqo live 30 years long But now being able to think through how do I become that much more application relevant? You know, if you think about transformation of application is going to come top down, not bottom up. And so, while we have all the evolution and, frankly disruption happening, digital disruption happening across it, the way to know which of the ones that are going to stick, they're going to come top down. And I think the moves that they're making all the way through buying happy all the way through partnering with C warmer turban Ah, Mick has been emblematic of what that opportunity is in the marketplace on the realization that customers care about their applications, their applications run their business. And you've got to look at the topology and you gotta look and response time and you gotta look at the resource ing. But that's a really fun spot for us to be in together. >> Bennett Thomas Congratulations on the expanded partnership and thanks again for joining us on the Cube. Thanks to you. All right, we're here in the Definite zone. Three days, Walter Wall coverage. Arms to Minuteman, David Long days in the house. Lisa Martin's here to we'll be back with lots more coverage. Thanks for watching the Cube