>> Introducer: From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto and in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi everybody this is Dave Volante. Welcome to the special CUBE Conversation. I'm really excited to invite in my mentor and friend. We go way back. Fred Moore is here. He's the president of Horizon Information Strategies. We going to talk about managing data in the zettabyte era. Fred, I think when we first met, we were talking about like the megabyte era. >> Right, exactly. I think back then we had, you know, maybe 10 bytes in our telephone and one on the wristwatch, you know, but now you can put a whole data center in a single cartridge of tape and take off. Things that really changed. >> It's pretty amazing. And of course, for those who don't know Fred, he was the first a systems engineer at Storage Tech. And as I said, somebody who taught me a lot in my early days, of course he's very famous for the term that everybody uses today. Backup is one thing, recovery is everything. And Fred just wrote, you know, this fantastic paper. He's done this year after year after year. He's just dug in, he's a clear thinker, strategic planner with a technical bent in a business bent. You're like one of those five tool baseball players, Fred. But tell me about this paper. Why, did you write it? >> Well, the reason I wrote that is there's been so much focus in the last year or so on the archive component of the storage hierarchy. And the thing that's happening, we're generating data lots faster than we're analyzing it. So it's piling up being unanalyzed and sitting basically untapped for years at a time. So that has posed a big challenge for people. The other thing that got me deeper into this last year was the Hyperscale market. They are, those people are so big in terms of footprint and infrastructure that they can no longer keep everything on disk. It's just economically not possible. The energy consumption per disk, the infrastructure costs, the frequency of, you know, taking a disc out every three, four or five years for just for replacement, has made it very difficult to do that. So Hyperscale has gone to tape in a big way, and it's kind of where most of the tape business in the future is going to wind up in these Hyperscale businesses. >> Right. >> We know tape doesn't exist in the home. It doesn't exist in a small data center. It's only a large scale data center technology, but that whole cosmos led me into the archive space and in a need for a new archive technology beyond tape. >> So, I want to set up the premise here. Just going to pull this out of your paper. It says a 60% of all data is archival, and could reach 80% or more by 2024, making archival data by far the largest storage class. And given this trajectory, the traditional storage hierarchy paradigm is going to to need to disrupt itself. And quickly we're going to talk about that. That really is the premise of your paper here, isn't it? >> It is, you know, to do all this with traditional technologies is going to get very painful for a variety of reasons. So the stage is set for a new tier and a new technology to appear in the next five years. Fortunately, I'm actually working with somebody who is after this in a big way, and in a different way than what you and I know. So I think there is some hope here that we can redefine and really add a new tier down at the bottom. You see it kind of emerging on that picture of the deep archive tier it's. Beginning to show up now and it's, you know, infinite storage. I mean, if you look at major league sports, the world series and Superbowl, you know, that data will never be deleted. It'll be here forever. It'll be used periodically based on circumstances. >> Yeah, well, we've got that pyramid chart up here. I mean, you invented this chart, essentially. At least you were the first person that ever showed it to me. I honestly think that you first created this concept where you had a high performance tier, and a high cost per bit, and then an archive tier. Maybe it wasn't this granular, you know, back in the '70s and '80s? But it's constantly been changing with different media types and different use cases. >> You know, you're right. I mean, and you all know this because you know, when storage deck introduced the nearline architecture, nearline set in between online and offline storage, we called it nearline, and trademarked that term. So that was the tape library concept to move data from offline status to online status, with a robotic library. So that brought up that third tier online, nearline, and offline, but you're right. This pyramid has evolved and morphed into several things. And, you know, I keep it alive. Somebody said, I'll have a pyramid on my tombstone instead of my name when I go down. (both chuckles) But it's really the heart and soul of the infrastructure for data. And then out of this comes all the management and security, the deletion, the immutable storage concepts, the whole thing starts here. So it's like your house, you got to have a foundation, then you can build everything on top of it. >> Well, and as you pointed out in your paper, a minute ago, it always comes down to economics. So I want to bring up the sort of 10 year expected cost of ownership the TCO for the three levels you got all disk, you got all cloud and you got LTO and you got the different aspects of the cost. The purple is always the biggest piece of cost. It's the labor costs. But of course, you know, in cloud, you've got the big media cost because they've done so much automation. I wonder if you could take us through this slide, what are the key takeaways there? >> Well, you know the thing that hurts here with all these technologies is, as you can see up on top up there, what the key issues are with this and the staff and personnel. So the less people you have to manage data, the better off you are. And then, you know, it's pretty high for disk compared to a lot of things to do on desk, but lack of manage a lot of, you know, sadly what you and I had to deal with years ago and provision kind of, I mean, a lot of this stuff is just labor intensive. The further you get, the further down the pyramid and you also get less labor intensive storage. And that helps then you get a lower cost for energy and cost of ownership. The TCO thing is kind of taking on a new meaning. I hate to put up a TCO chart in some regards, because it's all based on what your input variables are. So you can decide something different, but we've tried to normalize all kinds of pricing and come up with everything. And the cloud is a big question for most people as to how does it stack up. And if you don't ever touch the data in the cloud, you know, the price comes way down. If you want to start moving data in and out of the cloud, you're going to have to ante up in a big way like that. But, you know we're going to see dollar a terabyte storage prices down at the bottom of this pyramid here in the next five years. But hey, you can get down to four or five terabyte with drives media in libraries tape, just entire flash and certainly higher than that. But you know, we're going to have the race to a dollar a terabyte, total TCO cost here in 2025. >> So when Amazon announced, they just announced a glacier. Everybody said, okay, what is that? Is that tape is that, you know, this spun down disk, cause it took a while to get it back. But you're kind of seeing that tape technology as you said, really move into the Hyperscale space and that's going to accommodate this massive, you know, lower part of the pyramid, isn't it? >> Exactly. Yeah. And we don't have a spin down disk solution today. I was actually on the board of a company that started that called Copay and years ago, right up here near Boulder. >> You watch him (both chuckles) You absolutely right. And a few other people that, you know also, but the spin down disk never made it. And you know, you can spin up and down on a desk on your desktop computer, but doing that in a data center, then on a fiber channel drive never made it. So we don't have a spin down disk to do that. The archive space is kind of dominated by very high capacity disc and then tape. And most of the archive data in the world today, unfortunately sits on display. It's not used and spinning seven by 24, three 65 and not touch much. So that's a bad economic move, but customers just found that easier to handle by doing that then going back to tape. So we've got a lot of data stored in the wrong place from a total economics point of view. >> But the Hyperscalers are solving this problem, or they're not through automation. And, you know, you referenced storage, tiering, really trying to take the labor cost out. How are they doing? Are they doing a good job? >> They've done really well taking the labor costs down, I mean, they have optimized every screw, nut and bolt in the 42 chassis that you could imagine to make it as clean as possible to do that. So they've done a whole lot to bring that cost down, but still the magnitude of these data centers, we're going to finish the year 2020 with about 570 Hyperscale data centers. So it's going right now around the world. You know, each one of these things is 350 400,000 square feet, and up of race wars space. And the economics just don't allow you to keep putting inactive data on spinning disk. We don't have to spin down disk, tape You know, I feel like the only guy in the industry that says this sometimes, but, you know, tapes had a, you know, a renaissance. That people don't appreciate in terms of reliability, throughput, you know, tapes three orders of reliability higher than disc right now. And most people don't know this. So tape's viable, the Hyperscalers see that. And read one Hyperscalers or you know, by over a million pieces of LTO tape last year alone. Just to handle this, you know, be the pressure valve to take all of this inactive stuff off of the gigantic disc farms that they have. >> Well, so let's talk about that a little bit. So you just try to keep it simple. You've got, you know, flash disk and tape. It feels like disc is getting squeezed. We know what flash has done in terms of eating into disc. And you see in that, in the storage market generally, it's soft right now. And I've posited that a lot of that is the headroom that data centers have with flash, is they don't have to buy spindles anymore for performance reasons. And the market is soft. Only pure is showing consistent growth, and ends up a little bit, cause because of mainframe, you've got Dell popping back and forth, but generally speaking, the primary storage market is not a great place to be right now, all the actions and sort of secondary storage and data protection. And so just going to get squeezed, and you mentioned tape, you said that if your only person talking about it, but you said in your paper, you know, it's sequential. So time to first bite is, is sometimes problematic, but you can front end a tape with cash. You can use algorithms and, you know, smart scans and to really address that problem. And dramatically lower the cost. Plus you could do things like you tell me Fred, you're the technologists here, but you're going to have multiple heads things that you can't necessarily do in a hermetically sealed disc drive. >> (chuckles) You can. And what you just described is called the active archive layer in the pyramid. So when you front end a tape library with a disk array for a cash buffer, you create an active archive and that data will sit in there three or four or five days before it gets demoted based on inactivity. So, you know for repetitive use and you're going to get dislike performance for tape data, and that's the same cash in concept that deserve systems had 30 years ago. So that does work and the active archive has got a lot of momentum right now. There's right here near me, where I live in Boulder. We have the Active Archive Alliances headquarters, and I get to do their annual report every year. And this whole active archives thing is a big way to make and overcome that time, the first bike problem that we've had in tape. And we'll have for quite a while. >> In your paper, you've talked about some of the use cases and workloads and you laid out, you know basically taking the pyramid and saying, okay based on the workload, some certain percentage should be up at the top of the pyramid for the high performance stuff. And of course lower for the, you know, the less, you know, important traditional workloads, et cetera. And it was striking to see the Delta between annual, the highest performance we had 70% , I think was up in the top of the pyramid versus, you know the last use case. So in you're talking about what it costs to store a zettabyte in services is that if I talk about 108 million at the high end versus a about 11 or 12 million, so huge Delta 10 X Delta between the top and the bottom based on those, you know allocations based on the workload. >> Yeah, I tried to get at the value of tiered storage based on your individual workload in your business. So I looked at five different workloads, the top one that you referenced. That was in there at 108 million, you know, is the HPC market. I mean, when I visited a few of the HPC people, you know, their DOD agencies in many cases, you know that and I threw the pyramid up. The first thing they would say our permanents inverted. You know (chuckles), all of our archive data is about 10%. You know, we were all flash as much as we can. And we have a little bit archived, we're in constant. Simulation and compute mode and producing results like crazy from the data. So we do an IO, bring in maybe a whole file at a time and compute for minutes before we come up with an answer. So just the reverse. And then I got to look into all the different workloads talking to people, and that's how we develop these profiles. >> So let's pull up this future of the storage hierarchy, was again kind of of talks to the premise of your paper. Walk us through this like, what changes should we be expecting, and you got air gap in here. We're going to, I'm going to ask you about remastering and lifespan, but take us through this. >> Yeah, you know, the traditional chart that you had up on the first big year had four tiers, you know, two disturbs and solid state at the top. And then the big archive tier, which is kind of everything falling down into tape at this point. But you know again, tape has some challenges. You know time to first bite and sequential access on. And then when we couple using tape or disc as an archive, most of that data that's archival is captured as unstructured data. So we don't have, we don't have tags, we don't have metadata, we don't have indices, and that has led to the movement for object storage, to be a primary, maybe in the next five years, the primary format in store archived data, because it's got all that information inside of it. So now we have a way to search things and we can get to objects, but in the interim, you know, it's hard to find and search out things that are unstructured and, you know, most estimates would say 80% of the world's data is at least that much is unstructured. So archives are hard to find once you store it, there's one storing is one thing, retrieving it is another thing. And that's led to the formation of another layer in the story tier. It's going to be data that doesn't have to be remastered or converted to a new technology. in the case of the disc, every three, four or five years or tape drive every eight, maybe 10 years take large lost. Kate Media can go 30 years, but with all new modern tape media, but unfortunately, you know, the underlying drive doesn't go back that far, you can't support that many different versions. So the media life is actually longer than it needs to be. So the stage is set for a new technology to appear down here to deal with this archives. So it'll have faster access will not need to be remastered every five or 10 years, but you'll have, you know, a 50 year life in here. And I believe me, I've been looking for a long time to be able find something like this. And, you know we have a shot at this now, and I'm actually working with the technology that could pull this off. >> Well, it's interesting also as well, you calling out the air gap and the chart we go back to our mainframe guesses, is not a lot we haven't seen before, you know, maybe data D duplication, but you know, the adversary has become a lot more sophisticated. And so air gaps and, you know, ransomware on everybody's mind today, but you've sort of highlighted three layers of the pyramid that are actually candidates for that air gapping. >> Yeah. The active archive up there, of course, you know, with the disk and tape combined, then just pure tape. And then this new technology, which can be removable. You know, when you have removability you create an air gap. little did we know when you and I met that removability would be important to take. We thought we were trying to get rid of the Chevy truck access method, and now without electricity with a terrorist attack and pandemic or whatever. The fastest way to move data is put it on a truck and get it out of town. So that has got renewed life right now. Removability much to my shock from where we started. >> You talked about remastering and you said it's a costly labor intensive process that typically migrates previously archived data to new media every five to 10 years. First of all, explain why you have to do that and how a data center operators can solve that problem. >> Yeah. And let's start with data where most of it sits today on described, you know it describes useful life is four to five years before it either fails or is replaced. That's pretty much common now. So then they have to start replacing these things. And that means you have to copy, you know, read the data off the disk and write it somewhere else, big data move. And as the years go by that amount of data to revamp or gets bigger and bigger. So, I mean, you can do the math as you well know, you want to move, you know, 50 petabytes of data. It's going to take several weeks to do that electronically. So this gets to be a real time consuming effort. So most data centers that I've seen will keep about one fifth of their disposal every year migrating to a new technology, just kind of rolling forward as they go like that rather than do the whole thing every five years. So that's the new build in the disc world. And then for tape the drive stay in there longer, you know the LTO family drives a good read. You know two generations back from the current one that's been there. They cut that off a year ago. They'll go back to something like this soon. But you know, you can go into 10 years on a tape drive. The media life because of very unfair right media, which was already oxidized the last 30 years or more. The old media metal particle was not oxidized. So, you know, the oxidized flake, the particles would fall off people will say shit. I've had this in here eight years, you know, and it's kind flake it I put it back in. So that didn't work well. But now that we had various Verite Media, it was all oxidized, the media lives skyrocket. So that was the whole trick with tape to get into something that was preoxidized before time could cause it to decay. So the remastering is a lot, is less on tape by two to one to three to one, but still when you've got petabytes, maybe an exabyte sitting on tape in the future, that's going to take a long time to do that. >> Right. >> So remastering you'd love a way to scale capacity without having to continue to move the data to something new ever so often. >> So my last question is you've , you know, you went from a technical role into a strategic planning role, which of course the more technical you are in that role, the better off you're going to be. You don't understand that the guardrails, but you've always had a sort of telescope in the industry and you close the paper and it's kind of where I want to end here on, you know, what's ahead. And you talk about some of the technologies that obviously have legs, like three D NAND and obviously magnetic storage. You got optical in here, but then you've got all these other ones that you even mentioned, you know, don't hold your breath waiting for these multilayer photonics and dedic DNA. What class media, holographic storage, quantum storage we do a lot about quantum. What should we be thinking about and expecting as observers as to, you know, new technologies that might drive some innovation in the storage business? >> Well, I've listed the ones that are in the lab that have any life at all, right on this paper. So, you know can kind of take your pick at what goes on there. I mean, optical disk has not made it in the data center. We talked about it for 35 years. We invested in it in storage deck and never saw the light of day. You know, optical disk has remained an entertainment technology throughout the last 35 years. And the bigger rate is very low compared to data center technology. So, you know optical would have to take a huge step going forward. We got a lot of legs left in the solid state business. That's really active SSB, the whole nonvolatile memory spaces. Probably not 45% of the total disc shipments in terms of units, from what it was at it's high and in 2010. Unbelievable though. You know, in disc shipment 650 million drives a year announced just under 400, 35,400. So flashes has taken this stuff away, like crazy. Tape shouldn't be taking just away, but the tape industry doesn't do a very effective job of marketing itself. Most people still don't know what's going on with tape. They're still looking out of the roof, still looking out of the rear view mirror at a tape, as opposed to the front windshield. We see all the new things that have happened. So, you know they have bad memories of taping the past load stretch, edge damage tape, wouldn't work a tear or anything like that. It was a problem. Oh, that's pretty well gone away now. In a moderate tape is a whole different ball game, but most people don't know that. So, you know tapes going to have to struggle with access time and sequential reality. They've done a few things to come over excess time and the order request now to take the optimizer based on physical movement on the tape that can take out 50% of your access time for multiple requests on a cartridge. The one on here that's got the most promise right now would be a version of a multilayer photonic storage, which is. I would say sort like optical, but, you know, with data center, class characteristics, multi-layer recording capability on that random access, which tape doesn't have. And, you know, I would say that's probably the one that you would want to take some look at going forward like this. The others are highly specular. You know, we've been talking about DNA since we were kids. So we don't have a DNA product out here yet. You know, it's access times eight hours. It's probably not going to work for us. That's your, that's not your deep archive anymore. That's your time capsule storage. >> Yeah, right. >> Lock the earth. So, I mean, I think you kind of see what's here. I mean, the chances are it's still going to be the magnetic technologies tape disc, and then the solid state number and stuff. >> Right. >> But these are the ones that I'm tracking and looking at, trying to have worked with a few of the companies that are in this. Future list and I'd love to see something breakthrough out there, but it's like, we've always said about a holographic storage. For example, you know, there's been more written about it than there's ever been written on it. (both chuckles) >> Well, the paper's called Reinventing Archival Storage. You can get it on your website I presume Fredhorizon.com >> Yep, absolutely. >> Awesome. >> Fred Moore, great to see you again. Thanks so much for coming on the CUBE. >> My pleasure, Dave. Thanks a lot. Great job. >> All right. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the CUBE. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

we're back at vemma in 2022 we're here at the aria hotel in las vegas this is thecube's continuous coverage we're day two welcome to the cxo session we have ceo cto cso chief strategy officer brett diamond is the ceo justin jardina is the cto and dante orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11 11 systems recently named i guess today the impact cloud service provider of the year congratulations guys welcome thank you welcome back to the cube great to see you again thank you great likewise so okay brett let's start with you tell give us the overview of 11 1111 uh your focus area talk about the the the island acquisition what that what that's all about give us the setup yeah so we started 11-11 uh really with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business which are cloud connectivity and security bring them together into one platform allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on uh the three main drivers of the business uh which you know have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform okay so so justin cloud connectivity and security they all dramatically changed in march of 2020 everybody had to go to the cloud the rather rethink the network had a secure remote worker so what did you see from a from a cto's perspective what changed and how did 11 respond sure so early on when we built our cloud even back into 2008 we really focused on enterprise great features one of which being uh very flexible in the networking so we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time so if you fast forward from 2008 until today we still see that as a main component for iaz and draz and the ability to start taking into some of the things brett talked about where customers may need a point-to-point circuit to offload data connectivity to us or develop sd-wan and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud in my opinion it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008 and to couple that with the security um if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape now you have multiple clouds you have different ingress and egress points you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base so what does that mean specifically for your customers because i mean we saw obviously a rapid move toward endpoint um cloud security uh identity access you know people really started thinking rethinking that as opposed to trying to just you know build a moat around the castle right um what does that mean for for your customer you take care of all that you partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service how does that work right it does and that's a great analogy you know we have a picture of a hamburger in our office exploded with all the components and they say a good security policy is all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said so to answer your question yes we have all that baked in the platform we can offer managed services around it but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data whether it's a ui or api so dante i know you talk to a lot of customers all you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that you say okay the pandemic drove all these but but when you talk to csos and customers a lot of things are changing permanently first of all they were forced to march to digital when previously they were like we'll get there i mean a lot of customers were let's face it i mean some were serious about it but many weren't now if you're not a digital business you're out of business what have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes what are they telling you well i think we go through this for ourselves right the business continues to grow you've got tons of people that are working remotely and that are going to continue to work remotely right as much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that some folks are like hey i've worked it out i'm working out great from home right and also i think what justin was saying also is we've seen time go on that operating environment has gotten much more complex you've got stuff in the data center stuff it's somebody's you know endpoint you've got various different public clouds different sas services right that's why it's been phenomenal to work with veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists but when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about we're helping those csos you get better visibility better control and take proactive action against the infrastructure um when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when when something does happen right and i think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors right but how do you tie it all together into a single solution right with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things they're more strategic to the business i was talking to jim mercer at um red hat summit last week he's an idc analyst and he said we did a survey i think it was last summer and we asked customers to your point about there's no shortage of security tools how do you want to buy your security and you know do you want you know best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it now surprisingly they said platform provider the the problem is that's aspirational for a lot of platforms providers so they've got to look to a managed service provider so brett talk about the the island acquisition what green cloud is how that all fits together so we acquired island and green cloud last year and the reality is that the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions they were the foundational pieces to eleven eleven uh obviously the things that justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective uh at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways as well so those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint not only throughout the us but globally uh have a security product that was given to us from from the green cloud acquisition of cascade and add-on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one all three pillars so i like 11 11 11 is near and dear to my heart i am so where'd the name come from uh everybody asked me this question i think five times a day so uh growing up as a kid everyone in my family would always say 11 11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock and uh during coven we were coming up with a new name for the business my daughter looked at the microwave said dad it's 11 11. make a wish the reality was though i had no idea why i'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination derivation of the word uh it means the time of day when everything's in line um and when things are complex especially with running all the different businesses that we have aligning them so that they're working together it seemed like a perfect man when i had the big corner office at idc i had my staff meetings at 11 11. because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was nobody could forget the time so they gave him 11 minutes to be there now you'll see it all the time even when you don't want to so justin we've been talking a lot about ransomware and and not just backup but recovery my friend fred moore who you know coined the phrase backup is one thing recovery is everything and recovery time network speeds and and the like are critical especially when you're thinking cloud how are you architecting recovery for your clients maybe you could dig into that a little bit sure so it's really a multitude of things you know you mentioned ransomware seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time especially in our business with backup and dr it's very singular you know people protecting against host nodes now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment land and expand actually delete backups target backup vendors so the ransomware point i guess um trying to battle that is a multi-step process right you need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective from a networking perspective you need to think about how your workloads are protected and then when you think about backups i know we're at veeam vmon now talking about veeam there's a multitude of ways to protect that data whether it's retention whether it's immutability air gapping data so while i know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data it's really that hamburg analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection so how do you provide services i mean you say okay you want immutability there's a there's a line item for that um you want faster or you know low rpo fast rto how does that all work for as a customer what what am i buying from you is it just a managed service we'll take care of everything platinum gold silver or is it if if you don't mind so i'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us years ago his team actually built the ip because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with veeam that how do we take all the intelligence that we have in his team and all of our solution architects and scale it so they actually developed a tool called catalyst and it's a pre-sales tool it's an application you download it you install it it basically takes a snapshot of your environment you start to manipulate the data what are you trying to do dave are you trying to protect that data are you backing up to us are you trying to replicate for dr purposes um you know what are you doing for production or maybe it's a migration it analyzes the network it analyzes all your infrastructure it helps the ses know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do so nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community as well as the customer they're working with real data so we can get past all the garbage and get right to what's important for them for the outcome yeah that's huge who do you guys sell to is it is it more mid-sized businesses that maybe don't have the large teams is it larger enterprises who want to complement to their business is it both well i would say with the two acquisitions that we made the go-to-market sales strategies and the clientele were very different when you look at green cloud they're selling predominantly wholesale through msps and those msps are mostly selling to smbs right so we covered that smb market for the most part through our acquisition of green cloud island on the other hand was more focused on selling direct inbound through vars through the channel mid enterprise big enterprise so really those two acquisitions outside of the ip that we got from the systems we have every single go-to-market sale strategy and we're aligned from smb all the way up to the fortune 500. i heard a stat a couple months ago that that less than 50 of enterprises have a sock it blew me away and you know even small businesses need one they may not be able to afford but certainly a medium size or larger business should have some kind of sock is it does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace 100 if that's true the need for a managed service like this is just it's going to explode it is exploding yeah i mean 100 right there is zero unemployment in the cyberspace right just north america alone there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600 000 open wrecks just in north america right so earlier we talked about no shortage of tools right but the shortage of head count is a significant challenge big time right most importantly the people that you do have on staff they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have that's why you're seeing this massive insurgence in the managed security services provider lack of talent is number one challenge for csos that's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that and it's you know another tool and and it's amazing because you see security companies popping up all the time billion dollar evaluations i mean lacework did a billion dollar raise and so so there's no shortage of funding now maybe that'll change you know with the market but i wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning you guys got some serious love up on stage um there was a demo uh it was a pretty pretty cool demo fast recovery very very tight rpo as i recall it was i think four minutes of data loss is that right was that the right knit stat i was happy it wasn't zero data loss because there's really you know no such thing uh but so you got to feel good about that tell us about um how that all came about your relationship with with veeam who wants to take it sure i can i can take a step at it so one of the or two of the things that i'm um most excited about at least with this vmon is our team was able to work with veeam on that demo and what that demo was showing was some cdp-based features for cloud providers so we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the veeam platform it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication cdp replication on-prem backup cloud backup immutability air gap the list goes on and on and in our opinion having a singular software vendor that can provide all that through you know with a cloud provider on prem or not is really like the icing on the cake so for us it's very exciting to see that and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that veeam's doing in the sas space right so again having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases i'll tell you if you guys can get a that was a very cool demo if we can get a youtube of that that that demo i'll make sure we put it in the the show notes and uh of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it um so so how you guys feel i mean this is a new chapter for you very cool with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main mainspring of your strategy so the first veeam on in a couple years so what's the vibe been like for you what's the nighttime activity the customer interaction i know you guys are running a lot of the back end demos so you're everywhere what's the what's the vibe like at veeamon and how does it feel to be back look at that one at dante as far as yeah you got a lot of experience here yeah let me loose on this one dave i'm like so excited about this right it's been it's been far too long to get face to face again and um veeam always does it right and i think that uh for years we've been back-ending like all the hands-on lab infrastructure here but forget about that i think the part that's really exciting is getting face-to-face with such a great team right we have phenomenal architects that we work with at veeam day in and day out they put up with us pushing them pushing and pushing them and together we've been able to create a lot of magic together right but i think it's you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for for the last two years but the vibe's always fantastic at veeam if you're going to be around tonight i'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that veeam love with you at the after party yeah that's well famous after parties we'll see if that culture continues i have a feeling it will um brett where do you want to take 11 11. a new new phase in all of your careers you got a great crew out here it looks like i i love that you're all out and uh make some noise here people let's hear it all right let's see you this is the biggest audience we've had all week where do you want to take 11 11. i think you know if uh if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of green cloud and ireland obviously the integration is a key piece we're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars we've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible ip like i said earlier that just and his team have created on those front ends the user experience but you know we made two large acquisitions obviously mna is a is a key piece for us we're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security and i think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one when the when the cloud started to hit the steep part of the s-curve kind of early part of the last decade people thought oh wow these managed service providers are toast the exact opposite happened it created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services we've seen it all across the stack so guys wish you best of luck congratulations on the acquisitions thank you uh hope to have you back soon yeah thank you around the block all right keep it right there everybody dave vellante for the cube's coverage of veeamon 2022 we'll be right back after this short break

(pleasant music) >> We're back at Veeamon 2022. We're here at the Aria hotel in Las Vegas. This is theCube's continuous coverage. We're in day two. Welcome to the CXO session. We have CEO, CTO, CSO, chief strategy officer. Brett Diamond is the CEO, Justin Giardina is the CTO, and Dante Orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11:11 Systems recently named, I guess today, the impact cloud service provider of the year. Congratulations, guys. Welcome to theCube. Welcome back to theCube. Great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> Great. >> Likewise. >> Thanks for having us. Okay, Brett, let's start with you. Give us the overview of 11:11, your focus area, talk about the Island acquisition, what that's all about, give us the setup. >> Yeah, so we started 11:11, really, with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business, which are cloud, connectivity, and security, bring them together into one platform, allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on the three main drivers of the business, which, you know, have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform. >> Okay, so Justin, cloud connectivity and security, they all dramatically changed in March of 2020. Everybody had to go to the cloud, had to rethink the network, had to secure remote workers. So what did you see, from a CTO's perspective, what changed and how did 11:11 respond? >> Sure, so early on, when we built our cloud, even back into 2008, we really focused on enterprise grade features, one of which being very flexible in the networking. So we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time. So if you fast forward from 2008 until today, we still see that as a main component for IaaS and DRaaS and the ability to start taking into some of the things Brett talked about, where customers may need a point to point circuit to offload data connectivity to us, or develop SD-WAN and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud. In my opinion, it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008. And to couple that with the security, if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape, now you have multiple clouds, you have different ingress and egress points, you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds, so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base. >> So what does that mean specifically for your customers? Because, I mean, we saw obviously a rapid move toward end point, cloud security, identity access. You know, people really started rethinking that as opposed to trying to just, you know, build a moat around the castle. >> Right. >> What does that mean for your customer? You take care of all that? You partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service? How does that work? >> Right. It does and that's a great analogy. You know, we have a picture of a hamburger in our office, exploded with all the components and they say, a good security policy has all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said. So to answer your question, yes. We have all that baked in the platform. We can offer managed services around it, but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data, whether it's a UI or API. >> So Dante, I know you talked to a lot of customers. All you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that and you say, okay, the pandemic drove all these, but when you talk to CISOs and customers, a lot of things are changing permanently. First of all, they were forced to march to digital when previously, they were like, eh, we'll get there. I mean, a lot of customers were. Let's face it. I mean, some were serious about it, but many weren't. Now, if you're not a digital business, you're out of business. What have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes? What are they telling you? >> Well, I think, you know, we go through this ourselves, right? The business continues to grow. You've got tons of people that are working remotely and they are going to continue to work remotely, right? As much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that, some folks are like, hey, I've worked it out. I'm working out great from home, right? And also, I think what Justin was saying also is, as we've seen time go on, that operating environment has gotten much more complex. You've got stuff in the data center, stuff in somebody's, you know, endpoint, you've got various different public clouds, different SAS services, right? That's why it's been phenomenal to work with Veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists. But when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about, we're helping those CSOs, you know, get better visibility, better control, and take proactive action against the infrastructure when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when something does happen, right? And I think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors, right? But how do you tie it all together into a single solution, right, with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things that are more strategic to the business? >> I was talking to Jim Mercer at Red Hat Summit last week. He's an IDC analyst and we did a survey, I think it was last summer, and we asked customers to your point about, there's no shortage of security tools. How do you want to buy your security? And, you know, do you want, you know, best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it? Now surprisingly, they said platform provider. The problem is, that's aspirational for a lot of platform providers, so they got to look to a managed service provider. So Brett, talk about the Island acquisition, what Green Cloud is, how that all fits together. >> So we acquired Island and Green Cloud last year and the reality is, the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions. They were the foundational pieces to 11:11. Obviously, the things that Justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways, as well. So, those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint, not only throughout the US but globally, have a security product that was given to us from the Green Cloud acquisition of Cascade, and add on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one, all three pillars in one. >> So I like 11:11. 11:11 is near and dear to my heart. So where'd the name come from? >> Everybody asked me this question, I think, five times a day. So growing up as a kid, everyone in my family would always say 11:11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock. And during COVID, we were coming up with a new name for the business. My daughter looked at the microwave, said, dad, it's 11:11, make a wish. The reality was though, I had no idea why I'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination, derivation of the word, it means the time of day when everything's in line and when things are complex, especially with running all the different businesses that we have, aligning them so that they're working together, it seemed like the perfect thing >> So when I had the big corner office at IDC, I had my staff meetings at 11:11. >> Yep. >> Because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was, nobody could forget the time. So they gave me 11 minutes to be there, so they were never late. >> And now you'll see it all the time, even when you don't want to. (chuckles) >> So Justin, we've been talking a lot about ransomware and not just backup, but recovery. My friend, Fred Moore, who, you know, coined the phrase backup is one thing, recovery is everything, and recovery time, network speeds and the like are critical, especially when you're thinking cloud. How are you architecting recovery for your clients? Maybe you could dig into that a little bit. >> Sure. So it's really a multitude of things. You know, you mention ransomware. Seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time, especially in our business with backup NDR, is very singular, you know, people protecting against host nodes. Now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment, land and expand, actually delete backups, target backup vendors. So the ransomware point, I guess, trying to battle that is a multi-step process, right? You need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective, from a networking perspective, you need to think about how your workloads are protected, and then when you think about backups, I know we're at Veeamon now talking about Veeam, there's a multitude of ways to protect that data, whether it's retention, whether it's immutability, air gapping data. So, while I know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data, it's really that hamburger analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection. >> So how do you provide services? I mean, do you say, okay, do you want immutability? There's a line item for that. You want low RPO, fast RTO? How does that all work as a customer? What am I buying from you? Is it just a managed service? We'll take care of everything, platinum, gold, silver, or is it? >> If you don't mind, so I'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us. Years ago, his team actually built the IP because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with Veeam that, how do we take all the intelligence that we have and his team and all of our solution architects and scale it? So they actually developed a tool called Catalyst, and it's a pre-sales tool. It's an application. You download it, you install it. It basically takes a snapshot of your environment. You start to manipulate the data. What are you trying to do, Dave? Are you trying to protect that data? Are you backing up to us? Are you trying to replicate it for DR purposes? You know, what are you doing for production, or maybe it's a migration? It analyzes the network. It analyzes all your infrastructure. It helps the SEs know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do. So, nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community, as well as the customer, they're working with real data. So we can get past all the garbage, you get right to what's important for them for the outcome. >> Yeah, that's huge. Who do you guys sell to? Is it more mid-size businesses that maybe don't have the large teams? Is it larger enterprises who want to compliment to their business? Is it both? >> Well, I would say with the two acquisitions that we made to go to market sales strategies and the clientele were very different, when you look at Green Cloud, they're selling predominantly wholesale through MSPs and those MSPs are mostly selling to SMBs, right? So we covered that SMB market for the most part through our acquisition of Green Cloud. Island, on the other hand, was more focused on selling direct, inbound, through VARs through the channel, mid-enterprise, big enterprise. So really, those two acquisitions outside of the IP that we got from the systems, we have every single go to market sales strategy and we're aligned from SMB all the way up to the Fortune 500. >> I heard a stat a couple months ago that less than 50% of enterprises have a SAQ. That blew me away. And, you know, even small businesses need one. They may not be able to afford, but there's certainly a medium size or a larger business should have some kind of SAQ. Does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace? >> A hundred percent. >> If that's true, the need for a managed service like this, it's going to explode. It is exploding, I mean. >> Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent, right? There is zero unemployment in the cyberspace, right? Just North America alone, there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600,000 open recs just in North America, right? So earlier, we talked about no shortage of tools, right? But the shortage of headcount is a significant challenge, big time, right? Most importantly, the people that you do have on staff, they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have. That's why you're seeing this massive surgence in the managed security services provider. >> Lack of talent is number one challenge for CISOs. That's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that. And it's, you know, another tool and it's amazing 'cause you see security companies popping up all the time. I mean, billion dollar valuations, I mean, Lacework did a billion dollar raise. And so, there's no shortage of funding. Now, maybe that'll change, you know, with the market but I wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning. You guys got some serious love up on stage. There was a demo. It was a pretty cool demo, fast recovery, very tight RPO, as I recall. It was, I think, four minutes of, of data loss? Is that right? Is that the right stat? I was happy it wasn't zero data loss 'cause there's really, you know, no such thing, but so you got to feel good about that. Tell us about how that all came about, your relationship with Veeam. Who wants to take it? >> Sure, I can take a stab at it. So two of the things that I'm most excited about, at least with this Veeamon, is our team was able to work with Veeam on that demo, and what that demo was showing was some CDP based features for cloud providers. So we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the Veeam platform, it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication, CDP replication, on-prem backup, cloud backup, immutability air gap, the list goes on and on. And in our opinion, having a singular software vendor that can provide all that, you know, with a cloud provider on-prem or not is really like, the icing on the cake. So for us, it's very exciting to see that, and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that's Veeam's doing in the SAS space, right? So again, having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases. >> I'll tell you, that was a very cool demo. If you can get a YouTube of that demo, I'll make sure we put it in the show notes of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it. So, how do you guys feel? I mean, this is a new chapter for you. Very cool, with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main spring of your strategy, so the first Veeamon in a couple years. So what's the vibe been like for you? What's the nighttime activity, the customer interaction? I know you guys are running a lot of the backend demos, so you're everywhere. What's the vibe like at Veeamon and how does it feel to be back? >> I'll give that one to Dante as far as the vibes, so far. >> Yeah, yeah, you got a lot of experience. >> Yeah, let me loose on this one, Dave. I'm like, so excited about this, right? It's been far too long to get face to face again and Veeam always does it right. And I think that for years, we've been back ending like, all the hands on lab infrastructure here, but forget about that. I think the part that's really exciting is getting face to face with such a great team, right? We have phenomenal architects that we work with at Veeam day in and day out. They put up with us, pushing them, pushing them, pushing them and together, we've been able to create a lot of magic together, right? But I think you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for, for the last two years. But the vibe's always fantastic at Veeam. If you're going to be around tonight, I'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that Veeam love with you at the after party. >> Yeah, well, famous after parties. We'll see if that culture continues. I have a feeling it will. Brett, where do you want to take 11:11? New phase in all of your careers. You got a great crew out here, it looks like. I love that you're all out and, make some noise here, people. Let's hear it! (audience cheering) You see, this is the biggest audience we've had all week. Where do you want to take 11:11? >> I think, you know, if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of Green Cloud and Island, obviously the integration is a key piece. We're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars. We've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible IP, like I said earlier, that Justin and his team have created on those front ends, the user experience. But, you know, we made two large acquisitions, obviously M and A is a key piece for us. We're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well, to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security. And I think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one. >> When the cloud started to hit the steep part of the S-curve, kind of early part of last decade, people thought, oh wow, these managed service providers are toast. The exact opposite happened. It created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services. We've seen it all across the stacks. So guys, wish you best of luck. Congratulations on the acquisitions, >> Thank you. >> And hope to have you back soon. >> Absolutely, thanks for having us. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. Dave Vellante for theCube's coverage of Veeamon 2022. We'll be right back after this short break. (pleasant music)

>>Hello, everybody. Welcome to Von 2022, the live version. Yes, we're finally back live. Last time we did Von was 2019 live. Of course we did two subsequent years, uh, virtual. My name is Dave Valante and we've got two days of wall to wall coverage of VEON. As usual Veeam has brought together a number of customers, but it's really doing something different this year. Like many, uh, companies that you see, they have a big hybrid event. It's close to 40,000 people online and that's sort of driving the actual program where the content is actually different for the, the, the virtual viewers versus the onsite onsite. There's the, the V I P event going on, they got the keynotes. VM is a company who's a ancy occurred during the, the VMware rise. They brought in a new way of doing data protection. They didn't use agents. They, they protected at the hypervisor level. >>That changed the way that people did things. They're now doing it again in cloud, in SAS, in containers and ransomware. And so we're gonna dig into that. My cohost is Dave Nicholson this week, and we've got a special guest Zs Carava who is the principal at ZK research. He's an extraordinary analyst Zs. Great to see you, David. Thanks for coming out. Absolutely good to see you Beon. Great to be here. Yeah, we've done. Von act, live things have changed so dramatically. Uh, I mean the focus ransomware, it's now a whole new Tam, uh, the adjacency to security data protection. It's just a Zs. It's a whole new ballgame, isn't it? >>Well, it is. And, and in fact, um, during the keynote, they, they mentioned that they've, they're now tied at number one in, for, you know, back of a recovery, which is, I think it's safe to say Veeam. Does that really well? >>I think from a that's tied with Dell. Yes. Right. They didn't, I don't think they met Dell as >>Keto. And, uh, but I, you know, they've been rising Dell, EMC's been falling. And so I think >>It's somebody said 10 points that Dell lost and sharing the I data. >>It's not a big surprise. I mean, they haven't really invested a whole lot, >>I think anyway, >>Anyways, but I think from a Veeam perspective, the question is now that they've kind of hit that number one spot or close to it, what do they do next? This company, they mentioned, I was talking the CTO yesterday. You mentioned they're holding X bite of customer data. That is a lot of data. Right. And so they, they do back recovery really well. They do it arguably better than anybody. And so how do they take that data and then move into other adjacent markets to go create, not just a back recovery company, but a true data management platform company that has relevancy in cyber and analytics and artificial intelligence and data warehousing. Right? All those other areas I think are, are really open territory for this company right now. >>You know, Dave, you were a CTO at, at EMC when you, when you saw a lot of the acquisitions that the company made, uh, you, you know, they really never had a singular focus on data protection. They had a big data protection business, but that's the differentiator with Veeam. That's all it does. And you see that shine through from a, from a CTO's perspective. How do you see this market changing, evolving? And what's your sense as to how Vema is doing here? >>I think a lot of it's being driven by kind of, uh, unfortunately evil genius, uh, out in the market space. Yeah. I know we're gonna be hearing a lot about ransomware, uh, a lot about some concepts that we didn't really talk about outside of maybe the defense industry, air gaping, logical air gaping, um, Zs, you mentioned, you know, this, this, this question of what do you do when you have so many petabytes of data under management exabytes now exabytes, I'm sorry. Yeah, I see there I'm I'm already falling behind. One thing you could do is you could encrypt it all and then ask for Bitcoin in exchange for access to that data. >>Yes. That is what happens a >>Lot of them. So we're, we're getting, we're getting so much of the evil genius stuff headed our way. You start, you start thinking in those ways, but yet to, to your point, uh, dedicated backup products, don't address the scale and scope and variety of threats, not just from operational, uh, uh, you know, mishaps, uh, but now from so many bad actors coming in from the outside, it it's a whole new world. >>See us as analysts. We get inundated with ransomware solutions. Everybody's talking about it across the spectrum. The thing that interested me about what's happening here at VEON is they're, they're sort of trotting out this study that they do Veeam does some serious research, you know, thousands of customers that got hit by ransomware that they dug into. And then a, a larger study of all companies, many of whom didn't realize or said they hadn't been hit by ransomware, but they're really trying to inject thought leadership into the equation. You saw some of that in the analyst session this morning, it's now public. Uh, so we could talk about it. What were your thoughts on that data? >>Yeah, that was, uh, really fascinating data cuz it shows the ransomware industry, the response to it is largely reactive, right? We wait to get breach. We wait to, to uh, to get held at ransom I suppose. And then we, a lot of companies paid out. In fact, I thought there's one hospital in Florida, they're buying lots and lots of Bitcoin simply to pay out ransomware attacks. They didn't even really argue with them. They just pay it out. And I think Veeam's trying to change that mentality a little bit. You know, if you have the right strategy in place to be more preventative, you can do that. You can protect your data and then restore it right when you want to. So you don't have to be in that big bucket of companies that frankly pay and actually don't get their data back. Right. >>And like a third, I think roughly >>It's shocking amount of companies that get hit by that. And for a lot of companies, that's the end of their business. >>You know, a lot of the recovery process is manual is again a technologist. You understand that that's not the ideal way to go. In fact, it's probably a, a way to fail. >>Well, recovery's always the problem when I was in corporate, it used to joke that we were the best at backup, terrible at recovery. Well, you know, that's not atypical. >>My Fred Fred Moore, who was the vice president of strategy at a company called storage tech storage technology, corpor of storage tech. He had a great, uh, saying, he said, backup is one thing. Recovery is everything. And he started, he said that 30 years ago, but, but orchestration and automating that orchestration is, is really vital. We saw in the study, a lot of organizations are using scripts and scripts are fragile here they break. Right? >>Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, unfortunately the idea of the red run book on the shelf is still with us. Uh, uh, you know, scripting does not equal automation necessarily in every case, there's still gonna be a lot of manual steps in the process. Um, but you know, what I hope we get to talk about during the next couple of days is, you know, some of the factors that go into this, we've got day zero exploits that have already been uncovered that are stockpiled, uh, and tucked away. And it's inevitable that they're gonna hit. Yeah. So whether it's a manual recovery process or some level of automation, um, if you don't have something that is air gapped and cut off from the rest of the world in a physical or logical way, you can't guarantee >>That the, the problem with manual processes and scripting is even if you can set it up today, the environment changes so fast, right? With shadow it and business units buying their own services and users storing things and you know, wherever, um, you, you can't keep up with scripts in manual. Automation must be the way and I've been, and I don't care what part of it. You work in, whether it's this area in networking, communications, whatever automation must be the way I think prior to the pandemic, I saw a lot of resistance from it pros in the area of mission. Since the pandemic, I've seen a lot of warming up to it because I think it pros, I just realized they can't do their job without it. So, so you >>Don't, you don't think that edge devices, uh, lend themselves to manual >>Recovery, no process. In fact, I think that's one of the things they didn't talk about. What's that is, is edge. Edge is gonna be huge. More, every retailer, I talk to oil and gas, company's been using it for a long time. I've, you know, manufacturing organizations are looking at edge as a way to put more data in more places to improve experiences. Cuz you're moving the data closer, but we're creating a world where the fragmentation of data, you think it's bad now just wait a couple of years until the edge is a little more, you know, uh, to life here. And I think you ain't see nothing yet. This is this world of data. Everywhere is truly becoming that. And the thing with edge is there's no one definition, edge, you got IOT edge cellular edge, campus edge, right? Um, you know, you look at hotels, they have their own edge. I talked to major league baseball, right? They have every, stadium's got its own edge server in it. So we're moving into a world. We're putting more data in more places it's more fragmented than ever. And we need better ways of managing Of securing that data. But then also being able to recover for when >>Things happen. I was having that Danny Allen, he used the term that we coined called super cloud. He used that in the analyst meeting today. And, and that's a metaphor for this new layer of cloud. That's developing to your point, whether it's on-prem in a hybrid across clouds, not just running on the cloud, but actually abstracting away the complexity of the underlying primitives and APIs. And then eventually to your point, going out to the edge, I don't know if anyone who has an aggressive edge strategy Veeam to its credit, you know, has gone well beyond just virtualization and gone to bare metal into cloud. They were the containers. There was first at SAS. They acquired Caston who was a partner of theirs and they tried to acquire them earlier, but there was some government things and you know, that whole thing that got cleaned up and now they've, they own Caston. And I think the edge is next. I mean, it's gotta be, there's gonna be so much data at the edge. I guess the question is where is it today? How much of that is actually persisted? How much goes back to the cloud? I don't think people really have a good answer for that yet. >>No. In fact, a lot of edge services will be very ephemeral in nature. So it's not like with cloud where we'll take data and we'll store it there forever with the edge, we're gonna take data, we'll store it there for the time, point in time we need it. But I think one of the interesting things about Veeam is because they're decoupled from the airline hardware, they can run virtual machines and containers, porting Veeam to whatever platform you have next actually isn't all that difficult. Right? And so then if you need to be able to go back to a certain point in time, they can do that instantly. It's, it's a fascinating way to do backup. Are >>You you' point about it? I mean, you remember the signs up and down, you know, near the EMC facility, right outside of Southborough no hardware agenda that that was Jeremy Burton when he was running Verto of course they've got a little hardware agenda. So, but Veeam doesn't Veeam is, you know, they they're friendly with all the hardware players of pure play software, couple other stats on them. So they're a billion dollar company. They've now started to talk about their ARR growth. They grew, uh, 27% last year in, in, in annual recurring revenue, uh, 25%, uh, in the most recent quarter. And so they're in, in the vast majority of their business is subscription. I think they said, uh, 73% is now subscription based. So they really trans transitioned that business. The other thing about vem is they they've come up with a licensing model that's very friendly. >>Um, and they sort of removed that friction early on in the process. I remember talking to TIR about this. He said, we are gonna incent our partners and make it transparent to them, whether it's, you know, that when we shift from, you know, the, the, the, the crack of, of perpetual license to a subscription model, we're gonna make that transparent to partners. We'll take care of that. Essentially. They funded that transition. So that's worked very well. So they do stand out, I think from some of the larger companies at these big portfolios, although the big portfolio companies, you know, they get board level contacts and they can elbow their ways in your thoughts on that sort of selling dynamic. >>So navigating that transition to a subscription model is always fraught with danger. Everybody wants you to be there, but they want you to be there now. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, they don't like the transition that happens over 1824 months to get there. Um, >>As a private company, they're somewhat shielded from what they would've been if they were appli. Sure, >>Exactly. But, but that, but that bodes well from a, from a, a Veeam perspective. Um, the other interesting thing is that they sit where customers sit today in the real world, a hybrid world, not everything is in the cloud or a single cloud, uh, still a lot of on-prem things to take care of. And, >>And there will be for >>A long time exactly. Back to this idea. Yeah. There's a very long tail on that. So it's, it's, it's well enough to have a niche product that addresses a certain segment of the market, but to be able to go in and say all data everywhere, it doesn't matter where it lives. We have you covered. Um, that's a powerful message. And we were talking earlier. I think they, they stand a really good shot at taking market share, you know, on an ongoing basis. >>Yeah. The interesting thing about this market, Dave is they're, you know, although, you know, they're tied to number one with Dell now, they're, it's 12%, right? This reminds me of the security industry five, six years ago, where it's so fragmented. There's so many vendors, no one really stood out right. Then what happened in security? It's a little company called Palo Alto networks came around, they created a platform story. They moved into adjacent markets like SDWAN, they did a lot of smart acquisitions and they took off. I think vem is at that similar point where they've now, you know, that 12% number they've got some capital. Now they could go do some acquisitions that they want do. There's lots of adjacent markets as they talk about this company could be the Palo Alto of the data management market, if you know, and based on good execution. But there's certainly the opportunities there with all the data that they're holding. >>That's a really interesting point. I wanna stay that in a second. So there's obviously, there's, there's backup, there's recovery, there's data protection, there's ransomware protection, there's SAS data protection. And now all of a sudden you're seeing even a company like Rubrik is kind of repositioning as a security play. Yeah. Which I'm not sure that's the right move for a company that's really been focused on, on backup to really dive into that fragmented market. But it's clearly an adjacency and we heard Anan the new CEO today in the analyst segment, you know, we asked him, what's your kinda legacy gonna look like? And he said, I want to, I want to, defragment this market he's looking at. Yeah. He wants 25 to 45% of the market, which I think is really ambitious. I love that goal now to your point, agree, he, he sure. But that doubles yeah. >>From today or more, and he gets there to your point, possibly through acquisitions, they've made some really interesting tuck-ins with Castin. They certainly bought an AWS, uh, cloud play years ago. But my, my so, uh, Veeam was purchased by, uh, private equity inside capital inside capital in January of 2020, just before COVID for 5 billion. And at the time, then COVID hit right after you were like uhoh. And then of course the market took off so great acquisition by insight. But I think an IPO is in their future and that's, uh, Zs when they can start picking up some of these adjacent markets through every day. >>And I think one of the challenges for them is now that the Holden XAB bited data, they need to be able to tell customers things they, the customer doesn't know. Right. And that's where a lot of the work they're doing in artificial intelligence machine learning comes into play. Right. And, and nobody does that better than AWS, right? AWS is always looking at your data and telling you things you don't know, which makes you buy more. And so I think from a Veeam perspective, they need to now take all this, this huge asset they have and, and find a way to monetize it. And that's by revealing these key insights to customers that the customers don't even know they have. And >>They've got that monitor monitoring layer. Um, it's if you called it, Danny, didn't like to use the term, but he called it an AI. It's really machine learning that monitors. And then I think makes recommendations. I want to dig into that a little bit with it. >>Well, you can see the platform story starting to build here. Right. And >>Here's a really good point. Yeah. Because they really have been historically a point product company. This notion of super cloud is really a platform play. >>Right. And if you look in the software industry, look across any, any segment of the software industry, those companies that were niche that became big became platforms, Salesforce, SAP, Oracle. Right. And, and they find a way to allow others to build on their platform. You know, companies, they think like a Citrix, they never did that. Yeah. And they kind of taped, you know, petered out at a certain level of growth and had to, you know, change. They're still changing their business model, in fact. But I think that's Veeam's at that inflection point, right. They either build a platform story, enable others to do more on their platform or they stagnate >>HP software is another good example. They never were able to get that platform. And we're not able bunch of spoke with it, a non used to work there. Why is it so important Dave, to have a platform over a product? >>Well, cynical, Dave says, uh, you have a platform because it attracts investment and it makes you look cooler than maybe you really are. Um, but, uh, but really for longevity, you have, you, you, you have to be a platform. So what's >>The difference. How do you know when you have platform versus it? APIs? Is it, yeah. Brett, is it ecosystem? >>Some of it is. Some of it is semantics. Look at when, when I'm worried about my critical assets, my data, um, I think of a platform, a portfolio of point solutions for backing up edge data stuff. That's in the cloud stuff that exists in SAS. I see that holistically. And I think guys, you're doing enough. This is good. Don't, don't dilute your efforts. Just keep focusing on making sure that you can back up my data wherever it lives and we'll both win together. So whenever I hear a platform, I get a little bit, a little bit sketchy, >>Well platform, beats products, doesn't >>It? Yeah. To me, it's a last word. You said ecosystem. Yes. When you think of the big platform players, everybody B in the customer, uh, experience space builds to build for Salesforce. First, if you're a small security vendor, you build for Palo Alto first, right? Right. If you're in the database, you build for Oracle first and when you're that de facto platform, you create an ecosystem around you that you no longer have to fund and build yourself. It just becomes self-fulfilling. And that drives a level of stickiness that can't be replicated through product. >>Well, look at the ecosystem that, that these guys are forming. I mean, it's clear. Yeah. So are they becoming in your view >>Of platform? I think they are becoming a platform and I think that's one of the reasons they brought on and in, I think he's got some good experience doing that. You could argue that ring kind of became that. Right. The, when, you know, when he was ring central. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. And, uh, so I think some, some of his experiences and then moving into adjacencies, I think is really the reason they brought him in to lead this company to the next level. >>Excellent guys, thanks so much for setting up VEON 20, 22, 2 days of coverage on the cube. We're here at the area. It's a, it's a great venue. I >>Love the area. >>Yeah. It's nice. It's a nice intimate spot. A lot of customers here. Of course, there's gonna be a big Veeam party. They're famous for their parties, but, uh, we'll, we'll be here to cover it and, uh, keep it right there. We'll be back with the next segment. You're watching the cube VEON 20, 22 from Las Vegas.

(joyful music) >> According to storage guru, Fred Moore, 60 to 80% of all stored data is archival data, leading to the need for what he calls the infinite archive. And in this world, digital customers require inexpensive access to archive data that's protected, it's got to be available, durable, it's got to be able to scale and also has to support the governance and compliance edicts of the organizations. Welcome to this next session of the AWS Storage Day with theCUBE. I'm your host, Dave Vellante. We're going to dig into the topic of archiving and digitally preserving data and we're joined by Joe Fitzgerald, who's the general manager of Amazon S3 Glacier. Joe, welcome to the program. >> Hey, Dave. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Okay, I remember early last decade, AWS announced Glacier, it got a lot of buzz. And since then you've evolved your archival storage services, strategy and offerings. First question: why should customers archive their data in AWS? >> That's a great question. I think Amazon S3 Glacier is a great place for customers to archive data. And I think the preface that you gave, I think, covers a lot of the reasons why customers are looking to archive data on the cloud. We're finding a lot of customers have a lot of data. And if you think about it, most of the world's data is cold by nature. It's not data that you're accessing all the time. So if you don't have an archival story as part of your data strategy, I think you're missing out on a cost savings opportunity. So one of the reasons we're finding customers looking to move data to S3 Glacier is because of cost. With Glacier Deep Archive, we have an industry-leading price point of a dollar per terabyte per month. I think another reason that we're finding customers wanting to move data to the cloud, into Glacier, is because of the security, durability and availability that we offer. Instead of having to worry about some of the most valuable data that your company has and worrying about that being in a tape library that doesn't get access very often on premises or offsite in a data locker that you don't really have access to, and we offer the best story in terms of the durability and security and availability of that data. And I think the other reason that we're finding customers wanting to move data to S3 Glacier is just the flexibility and agility that having your data in the cloud offers. A lot of the data, you can put it in Deep Archive and have it sit there and not access it but then if you have some sort of event that you want to access that data, you can get that back very quickly, as well as put the power the rest of the AWS offerings, whether that's our compute offerings, our machine learning and analytics offerings. So you just have unmatched flexibility, cost, and durability of your data. So we're finding a lot of customers looking to optimize their business by moving their archive data to the cloud. >> So let's stick on the business case for a minute. You nailed the cost side of the equation. Clearly, you mentioned several of the benefits, but for those customers that may not be leaning in to archive data, how do they think about the cost-benefit analysis when you talk to customers, what are you hearing from them, the ones that have used your services to archive data, what are the benefits that they're getting? >> It's a great question. I think we find customers fall into a few different camps and use cases and one thing that we recommend as a starting point is if you have a lot of data and you're not really familiar with your access patterns, like what part of the data is warm, what part is cold? We offer a storage class called S3 intelligent tiering. And what that storage class does is it optimizes the placement of that data and the cost of that data based on the access patterns. So if it's data that is accessed very regularly, it'll sit in one of the warmer storage tiers. If it's accessed infrequently, it'll move down into the infrequent access tier or to the archive or deep archive access tiers. So it's a great way for customers who are struggling to think about archive, because it's not something that every customer thinks about everyday, to get automatic cost savings. And then for customers who have either larger amounts of data or better understand the access patterns, like some of the industries that we're seeing, like autonomous vehicles, they might generate tons of training data from running the autonomous vehicles. And they know, okay, this data, we're not actively using it, but it's also very valuable. They don't want to throw it away. They'll choose to move that data into an archive tier. So a lot of it comes down to the degree to which you're able to easily understand the access pattern of the data to figure out which storage class and which archive storage class maps best to your use case. >> I get it, so if you add that deep archive tier, you automagically get the benefit, thanks to the intelligent tiering. What about industry patterns? I mean, obviously, highly regulated industries have compliance issues and you have data intensive industries are going to potentially have this because they want to lower costs, but do you see any patterns emerging? I mean every industry needs this, but are there any industries that are getting more bang from the buck that you see? >> I would say every industry definitely has archived data. So we have customers in every vertical segment. I think some of the ones that we're definitely seeing more activity from would be media and entertainment customers are a great fit for archive. If you think about even digital native studios who are generating very high definition footage and they take all that footage, they produce the movie, but they have a lot of original data that they might reuse, that you remaster, director's cut, to use later, they're finding archive is a great fit for that. So they're able to use S3 Standard for their active production, but when they're done finishing a movie or production, they can save all that valuable original footage and move it in deep archive and just know that it's going to be there whenever they might need to use it. Another use case, we're staying in media, entertainment, similar to that and this is a good use case for S3 Glacier is if you have sports footage from like the '60s and then there's some sort of breaking news event about some athlete that you want to be able to cut a shot for the six o'clock news, with S3 Glacier and expedited retrievals, you're able to get that data back in a couple of minutes and that way you have the benefit of very low cost archive storage, but being able to get the immediacy of having some of that data back when you need it. So that's just some of the examples that we're seeing in terms of how customers are using archives. >> I love that example because the prevailing wisdom is the older data is, the less valuable it is, but if you can pull a clip up of Babe Ruth at the right time, even though it's a little grainy, wow, that's huge value for the-- >> We're finding like lots of customers that they've retained this data, they haven't known why they're going to need it, they just intrinsically know this data is really valuable, we might need it. And then as they look for new opportunities and they're like, hey, we're going to remaster this. And they've gone through a lot of digital transformation. So we're seeing companies have decades of original material moving into the cloud. We're also seeing fairly nascent startups who are also just generating lots of archive data. So it's just one of the many use cases we see from our customers love Glacier. >> Data hoarders heaven. I love it. Okay, Joe. Let's wrap up. Give us your closing thoughts, how you see the future of this business, where you want to take your business for your customers. >> Mostly, we just really want to help customers optimize their storage and realize the potential of their data. So for a lot of customers, that really just comes down to knowing that S3 glacier is a great and trusted place for their data, and that they're able to meet their compliance and regulatory needs, but for a lot of other customers, they're looking to transform their business and reinvent themselves as they move to the cloud. And I think we're just excited by a lot of emerging use cases and being able to find that flexibility of having very low cost storage, as well as being able to get access to that data and hook it up into the other AWS services and really realize the potential of their data. >> 100%, we've seen it over the decades, cost drops and use cases explode. Thank you, Joe. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks a lot, Dave. It's been great being here. >> All right, keep it right there for more storage and data insights. You're watching AWS Storage Day on theCUBE. (tranquil music)

(upbeat music) >> According to storage guru, Fred Moore, 60 to 80% of all stored data is archival data leading to the need for what he calls the infinite archive, In this world digital customers require inexpensive access to archive data that's protected it's got to be available, durable, it's got to be able to scale and also has to support the governance and compliance edicts of the organizations. Welcome to this next session of the AWS storage day with The Cube. I'm your host, Dave Vellante. We're going to dig into the topic of archiving and digitally preserving data and we're joined by Joe Fitzgerald, who is the general manager of Amazon S3 Glacier, Joe. Welcome to the program. >> Hey Dave, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, I remember early last decade, AWS announced Glacier, it got a lot of buzz, and since then you've evolved your archival storage services, strategy and offerings. First question. Why should customers archive their data in AWS? >> That's a great question. I think Amazon S3 Glacier is a great place for customers to archive data and I think the preface that you gave, I think covers a lot of the reasons why customers are looking to archive data on the cloud. We're finding a lot of customers have a lot of data. And if you think about it, most of the world's data is cold by nature. It's not data that you're accessing all the time. So if you don't have an archival story as part of your data strategy, I think you're missing out on a cost savings opportunity. So one of the reasons we're finding customers looking to move data S3 glacier is because of cost with Glacier Deep archive we have an industry leading price point of a dollar per terabyte per month. I think another reason that we're finding customers wanting to move data to the cloud into glacier is because of the security, durability, and availability that we offer. Instead of having to worry about some of the most valuable data that your company has and worrying about that being in a tape library that doesn't get accessed very often on premises or offsite in a, in a data locker that you don't really have access to. And we offer the best story in terms of the durability and security and availability of that data. And I think the other reason that we're finding customers wanting to move data to S3 Glacier is just the flexibility and agility that having your data in the cloud offers. A lot of the data, you can put it in deep archive and have it sit there and not access it, but then if you have, you know, some sort of event that you want to access that data, you can get that back very quickly, as well as put to power the rest of the AWS offerings, whether that's our compute offerings, or our machine learning and analytics offerings. So you just have like unmatched, you know, flexibility, cost, and durability of your data. So we're finding a lot of customers looking to optimize their business by moving their archive data to the cloud. >> Let's stick on the business case for a minute. I mean, you kind of nailed the cost side of the equation. Clearly you mentioned several of the benefits, but, but for those customers that may not be leaning in to, to, to archive data, how do they think about the cost benefit analysis when you talk to customers, what are you hearing from them? The ones that have used your services to archive data, what are the benefits that they're getting? >> It's a great question. I think we find customers fall into a few different, you know, camps in use cases. And one thing that we recommend as a starting point is if you have a lot of data and you're not really familiar with your access patterns, like which what, what part of the data is warm, what part is cold, we offer a storage class called S3 intelligent tiering. And what that storage class does is it optimizes the placement of that data and the cost of that data based on the access patterns. So if, if it's data that is accessed very regularly, it'll sit in one of the warmer storage tiers. If it's, accessed infrequently, it'll move down into the infrequent access tier or into the archive or deep archive access tiers. So it's a great way for customers who are struggling to think about archive, because it's not something that every customer thinks about every day to get on automatic cost savings. And then for customers who have, you know, either larger amounts of data or, or better understand the access patterns, like, you know, some of the industries that we're seeing like in, you know, autonomous vehicles, you know, they, they might have, they might generate like tons of training data from, from, you know, from running the autonomous vehicles. And they kind of know, okay, this data it's, it's, we're not actively using it, but it's also very valuable. They don't want to throw it away, they'll choose to move that data into an archive tier. So a lot of it kind of comes down to the degree to which you're able to easily understand the access pattern of the data to figure out which storage class and which archive storage class match best to your use case. >> I get it, so if you add that deep archive tier, you auto-magically get the benefit thanks to the intelligent tiering. What about industry patterns? I mean, obviously highly regulated industries have compliance issues. You know,, data intensive industries are going to potentially have this because they want to lower lower costs, but do you see any patterns emerging? I mean, every industry kind of needs this, but, but are there any industries that are getting more bang from the buck that, that you see? >> I would say every industry definitely has archived data. So we have, we have customers in every vertical segment. I think some of the ones that we're definitely seeing more activity from would be, you know, media and entertainment customers are a great fit for archive. If you think about, you know, even like digital native studios who are, you know, generate, you know, very high definition footage and, you know, they take all that footage, they produce the movie, but they have a lot of original data that they, you know, they, they might reuse. You know, remaster director's cut or, you know, to use later. They're finding archive is a great fit for that. So they're able to use S3 standard for their active production, but when they're done finishing a movie or production, they can save all that valuable original footage and move it into deep archive and just know that it's going to be there whenever they might need to use it. Another use case for staying in media entertainment, you know, kind of similar to that. And this is a good use case for S3 Glacier is if, if you have like sports footage from like the '60s, and then, you know, there's like some sort of breaking news event about some athlete that you want to be able to cut a shot for the six o'clock news, with S3 Glacier and expedited retrievals, you're able to kind of get like that, you know, that data back in a couple of minutes and that way you have the benefit of like very low cost archive storage, but being able to get the immediacy of having some of that data back when you need it. So, that's just some of the examples that we're seeing in terms of how customers are using archives. >> I love that example because, you know, the, the prevailing wisdom is the older, you know, data is the less valuable it is, but if you can pull a clip up of, you know, Babe Ruth at the right time, even though it's a little grainy, wow. That's huge value for the-- >> Yeah, I mean, we're, we're finding like lots of customers that, you know, they've retained this data, they haven't known why they're going to need it. They just sort of intrinsically know this data is really valuable and, you know, we might need it. And then as they, you know, they look for new opportunities and they're like, hey, you know, we're, we're going to remaster this and they they've gone through a lot of digital transformation. So we're seeing companies have, you know, decades of original material moving to the cloud where we're also seeing, you know, fairly new startups who are also just generating lots of archive data. So it's just, you know, one of the many use cases we see from our customers who love Glacier. >> Data hoarder's heaven, I love it. Okay, Joe, let's wrap up, give us your closing thoughts, how you see the future of this business, where you want to take, take your, your business for your customers. >> I think mostly we, we just really want to help customers optimize their storage and realize the potential of their data. So for a lot of customers that really just comes down to knowing that S3 Glacier is a great and trusted place for their data, and that they're able to kind of meet their compliance and regulatory needs, but for, you know, a lot of other customers, they're, they're looking to kind of transform their business and reinvent themselves as they move to the cloud, and I think we're just excited by a lot of emerging use cases, and, you know, being able to find that flexibility of having like very low cost storage, as well as being able to get access to that data and, hook it up into the other AWS services and really realize the potential of their data. >> 100%, I mean, we've seen it over the decades, cost drops and use cases explode. Thank you, Joe. Thanks so much for coming on The Cube. >> Thanks a lot, Dave, it's been great being here. >> All right keep it right there for more storage and data insights. You're watching AWS Storage Day on The Cube. (upbeat music)

(joyful music) >> According to storage guru, Fred Moore, 60 to 80% of all stored data is archival data, leading to the need for what he calls the infinite archive. And in this world, digital customers require inexpensive access to archive data that's protected, it's got to be available, durable, it's got to be able to scale and also has to support the governance and compliance edicts of the organizations. Welcome to this next session of the AWS Storage Day with theCUBE. I'm your host, Dave Vellante. We're going to dig into the topic of archiving and digitally preserving data and we're joined by Joe Fitzgerald, who's the general manager of Amazon S3 Glacier. Joe, welcome to the program. >> Hey, Dave. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Okay, I remember early last decade, AWS announced Glacier, it got a lot of buzz. And since then you've evolved your archival storage services, strategy and offerings. First question: why should customers archive their data in AWS? >> That's a great question. I think Amazon S3 Glacier is a great place for customers to archive data. And I think the preface that you gave, I think, covers a lot of the reasons why customers are looking to archive data on the cloud. We're finding a lot of customers have a lot of data. And if you think about it, most of the world's data is cold by nature. It's not data that you're accessing all the time. So if you don't have an archival story as part of your data strategy, I think you're missing out on a cost savings opportunity. So one of the reasons we're finding customers looking to move data to S3 Glacier is because of cost. With Glacier Deep Archive, we have an industry-leading price point of a dollar per terabyte per month. I think another reason that we're finding customers wanting to move data to the cloud, into Glacier, is because of the security, durability and availability that we offer. Instead of having to worry about some of the most valuable data that your company has and worrying about that being in a tape library that doesn't get access very often on premises or offsite in a data locker that you don't really have access to, and we offer the best story in terms of the durability and security and availability of that data. And I think the other reason that we're finding customers wanting to move data to S3 Glacier is just the flexibility and agility that having your data in the cloud offers. A lot of the data, you can put it in Deep Archive and have it sit there and not access it but then if you have some sort of event that you want to access that data, you can get that back very quickly, as well as put the power the rest of the AWS offerings, whether that's our compute offerings, our machine learning and analytics offerings. So you just have unmatched flexibility, cost, and durability of your data. So we're finding a lot of customers looking to optimize their business by moving their archive data to the cloud. >> So let's stick on the business case for a minute. You nailed the cost side of the equation. Clearly, you mentioned several of the benefits, but for those customers that may not be leaning in to archive data, how do they think about the cost-benefit analysis when you talk to customers, what are you hearing from them, the ones that have used your services to archive data, what are the benefits that they're getting? >> It's a great question. I think we find customers fall into a few different camps and use cases and one thing that we recommend as a starting point is if you have a lot of data and you're not really familiar with your access patterns, like what part of the data is warm, what part is cold? We offer a storage class called S3 intelligent tiering. And what that storage class does is it optimizes the placement of that data and the cost of that data based on the access patterns. So if it's data that is accessed very regularly, it'll sit in one of the warmer storage tiers. If it's accessed infrequently, it'll move down into the infrequent access tier or to the archive or deep archive access tiers. So it's a great way for customers who are struggling to think about archive, because it's not something that every customer thinks about everyday, to get automatic cost savings. And then for customers who have either larger amounts of data or better understand the access patterns, like some of the industries that we're seeing, like autonomous vehicles, they might generate tons of training data from running the autonomous vehicles. And they know, okay, this data, we're not actively using it, but it's also very valuable. They don't want to throw it away. They'll choose to move that data into an archive tier. So a lot of it comes down to the degree to which you're able to easily understand the access pattern of the data to figure out which storage class and which archive storage class maps best to your use case. >> I get it, so if you add that deep archive tier, you automagically get the benefit, thanks to the intelligent tiering. What about industry patterns? I mean, obviously, highly regulated industries have compliance issues and you have data intensive industries are going to potentially have this because they want to lower costs, but do you see any patterns emerging? I mean every industry needs this, but are there any industries that are getting more bang from the buck that you see? >> I would say every industry definitely has archived data. So we have customers in every vertical segment. I think some of the ones that we're definitely seeing more activity from would be media and entertainment customers are a great fit for archive. If you think about even digital native studios who are generating very high definition footage and they take all that footage, they produce the movie, but they have a lot of original data that they might reuse, that you remaster, director's cut, to use later, they're finding archive is a great fit for that. So they're able to use S3 Standard for their active production, but when they're done finishing a movie or production, they can save all that valuable original footage and move it in deep archive and just know that it's going to be there whenever they might need to use it. Another use case, we're staying in media, entertainment, similar to that and this is a good use case for S3 Glacier is if you have sports footage from like the '60s and then there's some sort of breaking news event about some athlete that you want to be able to cut a shot for the six o'clock news, with S3 Glacier and expedited retrievals, you're able to get that data back in a couple of minutes and that way you have the benefit of very low cost archive storage, but being able to get the immediacy of having some of that data back when you need it. So that's just some of the examples that we're seeing in terms of how customers are using archives. >> I love that example because the prevailing wisdom is the older data is, the less valuable it is, but if you can pull a clip up of Babe Ruth at the right time, even though it's a little grainy, wow, that's huge value for the-- >> We're finding like lots of customers that they've retained this data, they haven't known why they're going to need it, they just intrinsically know this data is really valuable, we might need it. And then as they look for new opportunities and they're like, hey, we're going to remaster this. And they've gone through a lot of digital transformation. So we're seeing companies have decades of original material moving into the cloud. We're also seeing fairly nascent startups who are also just generating lots of archive data. So it's just one of the many use cases we see from our customers love Glacier. >> Data hoarders heaven. I love it. Okay, Joe. Let's wrap up. Give us your closing thoughts, how you see the future of this business, where you want to take your business for your customers. >> Mostly, we just really want to help customers optimize their storage and realize the potential of their data. So for a lot of customers, that really just comes down to knowing that S3 glacier is a great and trusted place for their data, and that they're able to meet their compliance and regulatory needs, but for a lot of other customers, they're looking to transform their business and reinvent themselves as they move to the cloud. And I think we're just excited by a lot of emerging use cases and being able to find that flexibility of having very low cost storage, as well as being able to get access to that data and hook it up into the other AWS services and really realize the potential of their data. >> 100%, we've seen it over the decades, cost drops and use cases explode. Thank you, Joe. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks a lot, Dave. It's been great being here. >> All right, keep it right there for more storage and data insights. You're watching AWS Storage Day on theCUBE. (tranquil music)

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape hi everybody welcome to this special cube conversations part of our partner series sponsored by HP e hewlett-packard enterprise and we've been drilling into the role that partners play the value that they add as as they emerge is the sort of new breed of nimble system integrator Tim Ferriss is here and he's with green pages we're going to do a disaster recovery drill down it's a topic that is extremely important it's relevant to this day and age Jim thanks for coming on my pleasure thank you for having Saudi our it's it's traditionally been an expensive complicated hairy scary but necessary what should we know about dr today in the state of dr well like you said i think a lot of people have written it off as prohibitively expensive and certainly in the small and medium business but you know with the advent of cloud with it with the explosion of cloud services dr as a service has made a cloud cloud base dr and disaster recovery affordable for even a small business it's taken a lot of the complexity some of the complexity out of it and it's certainly some for some clients it's the first steps toward a cloud journey you know my my friend Fred Moore former storage tech senior vice president of strategic planning is famous for coining the term backup is one thing recovery is there anything it applies to dr you know failover is one thing failback is is everything and you know a lot of times it's just you know too dangerous to test failing back how is dr evolving particularly for the small and mid-sized businesses so they can have confidence that not only can they check a box sure for their corporate boards but they if there's a disaster they can actually recover the sim is similar to that to that phrase yeah DR is not just a replication exercise right not getting just getting data from point A to point B but automating that and automating the the testing and creating run books around around that data I think some things have certainly made that easier over the years you know I I was an early delivery consultant for solution for VMware Site Recovery Manager thankfully I've used it much more for in cases of data center migration than I have for actual disasters but you know it was a fantastic automation tool but used other technologies to get the data from point A to point B and replicate that data some things that have made that easier over the years for people in more affordable a bandwidth is cheaper so you've got to get that data it still gotta get that data from point A to point B and it was prohibitively the pipe was prohibitively expensive could it keep up with my rate of change so but bandwidth is becoming less and less expensive and less and less of a hindrance there the software and the technologies typically back in the old days it was a ray based replication you needed to have like arrays and in production in dr so i i have an all flash array in production i need that same array in dr well maybe that's maybe i want to spend money on an all flash array for a use case that I hope I never need you know I'll test but never need it and you know our partner HPE has done some great things they're letting you replicate from a nimble all flash array to a hybrid array and ER let's some people save some money there but for our small and medium business for those who want to get out of the data center business maybe they want to start with dr dr as a service has been a you know a big big mover for us you know a lot of a lot of traction with that over the past year into so i mean one of the concerns that you hear this from security practitioners all the time is that they're drowning in point products and sort of dr was sort of the same I asked the customer had to become the system integrator or had engaged and spent a lot of money figuring out that that system so the dr as a service kind of takes care of all that doesn't it does it offloads not only the operational maintenance of the of the dr infrastructure but your you can leverage their years of expertise in indy our functions you know again hopefully folks don't have a ton of experience failing over from disasters you know hopefully you only have that never happens or it happens once but but these folks have are seasoned veterans in indy are so you get to not only leverage them their service taking care of the operations of it but you get their expertise for design so i can actually you mentioned bandwidth in vo is joke gold mainframes that the the fastest way to get data from point A to point B is the Chevy truck access method and and so and that was tape and in the day since big large companies still use tape I mean the big hyper scalar guys use K tape I presume it's not is if I froze it was pretty much dead in small business and maybe even it's very word I get dirty looks yesterday but do people still use tape for dr type of thing people do I would say increasingly if people are using tape it's used for those work those less critical workloads those people are looking people you know hopefully anybody who's performing a business continuity initiative will tear their workloads you know they have their tier zero those things that need to be up and running hot in the data center those tier ones with the RTOS the recovery time objectives in the minutes tape you only want to use that for recovery time objectives maybe in the weeks okay so pretty much I mean I've always hated tape but but but it's still not dead yet now people are trying through okay so thinking as an architect let's say I'm a small let's say midsize business because there's some other challenges that their and I and I used to have you know sort of backup over here and recovery and I think about dr it wasn't integrated what should I be doing in terms of bringing those disciplines together how should I be thinking about architecting a disaster recovery solution from from my client where do I start well you you should start by assessing the the applications so don't start at the VM level or the the physical workload level here from your business what are those services that they need to provide in the event of a disaster so a business continuity plan needs to be in place before we you should take on a disaster recovery architecture initiative so having that input is key to the to the to the disaster recovery process so assess assess what services need to be up and when tear them so and then investigate we investigate with our clients several different methods of protection and a dr a dr architecture won't just consist of dr as a service or a physical prem the prem replication environment it could contain many different types of protection deer as for some products for our virtual workloads application based hot protection for sequel or database workloads and that sort of thing using native application replication so a lot of different things you can you can do and it's not just the one size fits all it's really a mosaic of things tailoring the solution based on the applications value yes that gets into so you know the funny discussions with you know people always say well speak in business terms and so you sit down as business people say what do you want your RPO and arts go to the end they go what ok RPO how much data you're willing to lose and they go how much a problem how fast do you want to get it back what are you talking about instantaneously how much money do you have so it's the notion of recovery point objective recovery time objective it's sometimes not business speak how do you translate a geek into wallet wallet yeah well yeah signing have you you ask the question have you assigned a value to downtime you know how much is it gonna cost you to be down and I don't like to go into customers and hit them with a lot of FUD you know fear uncertainty and doubt and but you you know it should a good business should value how much downtime or loss of data will cost the business and then use that to determine what they need to spend on on dr in order to make sure that that doesn't happen well you're suggesting so and and having had those conversations with many CIOs in the past it used to be email was mission-critical and it still is in many ways but of course the vast majority people have outsourced their their email to the right or ever Microsoft or whomever at Google and so now it becomes so the answer to that question is what does it cost you when it sounds well it depends what system is down you know if it's my transaction system and I'm a retailer online well and it's it's this Black Friday I'm losing a lot of money right and so do people have a sense of the cost of downtime or the the value of their data and their applications I I think a lot of times they do not and and it takes some encouragement in order to to help them realize that I think for some it's just so for our retail customers I think it's just so obvious that to them they're they're hyper focused on on on that value so we get just like you know it's it's unfortunate but during hurricane season we have a lot of conversations with folks about about dr because it's top of mind for everybody for our retail customers their hurricane season is you know Black Friday and beyond they want to make sure that they have a solid solution leading in the Black Friday because you know a minute of downtime can mean you know thousands and thousands of dollars worth of lost business and revenue so I think more and more it's becoming a common place for people to put value on it but you still run into folks who haven't okay so and I get it this it's an insurance cell it's somewhat of a fear it's not a fear of missing out it's a fear of losing you know all your data yeah and and so okay so let's let's assume so you guys can help me get through the business case let's assume I I get there um how are people sort of moving forward how fast are they moving forward and how critical is it for their digital transformations so so how fast are people people I think are moving we're having the conversation with more and more folks more and more folks or finding value in disaster recovery and we are helping them through that helping them through that assessment and providing the value I think another big value for the IT for the IT establishment is not just providing a service the best that they can do but getting some buy-in from the business on let's let's agree what what a reasonable recovery time objective is and let's agree understand that yeah I can give you a zero RPO recovery point objective or a near zero a synchronous replication but it's gonna cost X amount of money so that the business is taking some ownership for the quality of the of the disaster recovery solution and the the tightness of the RPO and RTO and you you empower the business to make those decisions by giving them options and I think we help our businesses the customers we work with so it's important I mean maybe it's worthwhile getting a little didactic here but but we're talking about you know RPO zero it means you're essentially you're not losing any data right on a disaster which is very very probably there's no such thing technically as our poz the closest is you know synchronous replication and and that sort of thing so near zero right so so you take you do synchronous replication you know within some physical metro area metro area yeah of course the problem is if you get hit with a major disaster then they both go out so you have to do async yeah yeah frankly just understanding what type of disaster you're asking me to engineer for is it or is it a localized fire in the data center centers away in an earthquake and regional disaster affecting the whole country now right yeah so so understanding what your or is it you know we to this day IT organizations are getting calls from upper management you know if they have a power failure in the building you know okay let's failover to our disaster recovery site and the power is going to be on in an hour or so and you know knowing when to make that decision is is critical as well and not using it too trivially so if you're in a zone where you have a high probability of some kind of disaster that's gonna wipe out both synchronous you know platforms you go asynchronous but then the problem becomes speed of light there's a there's a little bit of you know or it could be a lot it could affect the performance of the application - while you're waiting for that sink that's right yeah so that could be a revenue hit but it could be you know it can you handle fifty five minutes of lost data yeah yeah sure I can probably recreate that about 15 minutes yeah maybe I'll how about an hour how about half a day mm-hmm how about a day now you start to get into the business discussion of really what's the value and now you can architect around those things you can pretty pretty much if you throw money at it you can solve any problem as an architect mostly you absolutely finish that balance of the business case right exactly so so yeah by and by showing in what we'll often do is we'll do the assessment and we'll perform a workshop on various different ways in which we can solve a problem and we can show the client in the business okay well we can do what you asked for it will cost X and that's very expensive but we can do do it this way a little bit differently or combine a couple ways that may increase your RPO a little bit but they're much more affordable you know is that a and they can make a decision based on something you said before Tim resonated with me which was it's not one size fits all which says to me I need the technology to be able to give me the granularity that I can map to the application based on the cost of downtime or the value of the application it right and it sounds like I'm inferring that that type of modern technology exists today absolutely so besides just that there are a number of different ways that applications can be protected you know Active Directory needs to be protected using its native replication Oracle and sequel have their own methods of protection so does so does exchange but virtual workloads certainly you can dial up or down the protection using dr.azz with a product behind it like a like as erto a replication and automation host based replication capability and it you know host based it makes things a bit easier for clients because they can very granularly choose individual VMS without having to house them on a specific volume that's replicated and and have to do all that mapping in the backend it takes a lot of the complexity out of things and you can assign different priorities to those machines so I could be replicating a hundred machines but ten of them are more important I want to make sure that those ten get all the bandwidth they need to keep the lowest possible RPO and certainly there are technologies out there and we are partners with with some providers who can let you dial in what role does HPE play in this whole equation right so so HPE for four Prem the Prem disaster recovery technologies it's it's fantastic because I think I mentioned it earlier you know it used to be we have some we have some very high end workloads residing in primary data centers living on all flash arrays so a nimble or a three-part all flash array those are those are expensive technologies necessary to run the business in in normal circumstances but for dr for a solution that you hope you never need you can replicate to an all flash nimble to a hybrid solution a hybrid nimble in dr thereby saving yourself some money so you know a hybrid flash array and adaptive flash array in dr that is fronted by SSD and ram but costs more like an HDD or a spinning disk array so HP is allowing us to do some things that help help save some money there as well alright Tim thanks very much it was a great conversation and really appreciate your perspectives all right thank you Dave 500 you're welcome ok thank you for watching everybody this is Dave a latte with cube we'll see you next time

>> From Tavern on the Green in Central Park, New York, it's theCUBE, covering Veritas Vision Solution Day. Brought to you by Veritas. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Tavern on the Green. We're in the heart of Central Park in New York City, the Big Apple. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We're here at the Veritas Solution Day #VtasVision. Veritas used to have a big main tent day where they brought in all the customers. Now they're going out, belly-to-belly, 20 cities. Dave Raffo is here, he's the editorial director for TechTarget Storage. Somebody who follows this space very closely. David good to see you, welcome to theCUBE. >> Yeah, it's great to be on theCUBE. I always hear and watch you guys but never been on before. >> Well you're now an alum, I got to get him a sticker. So, we were talking about VMworld just now, and that show, last two years, one of the hottest topics anyway, was cloud, multi-cloud, Kubernetes of course was a hot topic. But, data protection was right up there. Why, in your view, is data protection such a hot topic right now? >> Well there's a lot of changes going on. First of all, couple years ago it was backup, nobody calls it backup anymore right. The whole market is changing. Data protection, you have newer guys like Cohesity and Ruberik, would come out with a, you know, architecture. They're basically, from scratch, they built scale-out and that's changing the way people look at data protection. You have all of the data protection guys, the Dell EMC, CommVault, Veeam, they're all kind of changing a little. And Veritas, the old guys, have been doing it forever. And now they're changing the way that they're reacting to the competition. The cloud is becoming a major force in where data lives, and you have to protect that. So there's a lot of changes going on in the market. >> Yeah I was talking to a Gartner analyst recently, he said they're data suggested about 2/3 of the customers that they talk to, within the next, I think, 18 months, are going to change they're backup approach or reconsider how they do backup or data protection as it were, as you just said. What do you think is driving that? I mean, people cite digital transformation they cite cloud, they cite big data, all the buzz words. You know, where there's smoke, there's fire, I guess. But what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, it's a little bit of all of those things, because the IT infrastructure is changing, virtualization containers, everything, every architectural change changes the way you protect and manage your data, right. So, we're seeing a lot of those changes, and now people are reacting to it and everybody's figuring out still how to use the cloud and where the data is going to live. So then, you know, how do you protect that data? >> And of course, when you listen to vendors talk, data protection, backup, recovery, it's very sexy when you talk to the customers they're just, oftentimes, drinking from the fire hose, right. Just trying to solve the next problem that they have. But what are you hearing from the customers? TechTarget obviously has a big community. You guys do a lot of events. You talk personally to a lot of customers, particularly when there are new announcements. And what does the landscape look like to you? >> So they're all, you know like I said, everybody's looking at the cloud. They're looking at all these, how they're going to use these things. They're not sure yet, but they want data protection, data management that will kind of fit in no matter which direction they go. It's kind of, you know, we know we're looking at where we're going to be in five years and now we want to know how we're going to protect, how we're going to manage our data, how we're going to use it, move it from cloud to cloud. So, you know, it's kind of like, it's a lot of positioning going on now. A lot of planing for the future. And they're trying to figure out what's the best way they're going to be able to do all this stuff. >> Yeah, so, you know the hot thing, it used to be, like you said, backup. And then of course, people said backup is one thing, recovery is everything. You know, so it was the old bromide, my friend Fred Moore, I think coined that term, back in the old storage tech days. But when you think about cloud, and you think about the different cloud suppliers, they've all got different approaches, they're different walled gardens, essentially. And they've got different processes for at least replicating, backing up data. Where do you see customers, in terms of having that sort of single abstraction layer, the single data protection philosophy or strategy and set of products for multi-cloud? >> Well, where they are is they're not there, and they're, you know, far from it, but that's where they want to be. So, that's where a lot of the vendor positioning is going. A lot of the customers are looking to do that. But another thing that's changing it is, you know, people aren't using Oracle, SQL databases all the time anymore either. They're using the NoSQL MongoDB. So that change, you know, you need different products for that too. So, the whole, almost every type of product, hyper-converged is changing backup. So, you know, all these technologies are changing the way people actually are going to protect their data. >> So you look at the guys with the big install base, obviously Veritas is one, guys like IBM, certainly CommVault and there are others that have large install bases. And the new guys, the upstarts, they're licking their chops to go after them. What do you see as, let's take Veritas as an example, the vulnerabilities and the strengths of a company like that? >> So the vulnerabilities of an old company that's been around forever is that, the newer guys are coming with a clean sheet of paper and coming up and developing their products around technologies that didn't exist when NetBackup was created, right. So the strength is that, for Veritas, they have huge install base. They have all the products, technology they need. They have a lot of engineers so they can get to the board, drawing board, and figure it out and add stuff. And what they're trying to do is build around NetBackup saying all these companies are using NetBackup, so let's expand that, let's build archiving in, let's build, you know, copy data protect, copy data management into that. Let's build encryption, all of that, into NetBackup. You know, appliances, they're going farther, farther and farther into appliances. Seems like nobody wants to just buy backup software, and backup hardware as separate, which they were forever. So you know, we're seeing the integration there. >> Well that brings up another good point, is you know, for years, backup's been kind of one size fits all. So that meant you were either over protected, or under protected. It was maybe an after thought, a bolt-on, you put in applications, put it in a server, an application on top of it. You know, install Linux, maybe some Oracle databases. All of the a sudden, oh, we got to back this thing up. And increasingly, people are saying, hey, I don't want to just pay for insurance, I'd like to get more value. And so, you're hearing a lot of talk about governance, certainly security, ransomware is now a big topic, analytics. What are you seeing, in terms of, some of those additional value, those value adds beyond that, is it still just insurance, or are we seeing incremental value to customers? >> Yeah, well I think everybody wants incremental value. They have the data, now it's not just, like you said, insurance. It's like how is this going to, how am I going to use this data? How's it going to help my business? So, the analytics is a big thing that everybody's trying to get in. You know, primary and secondary storage everybody's adding analytics. AI, how we use AI, machine learning. You know, how we're going to back up data from the edge into and out of thing. What are we going to do with all this data? How are we going to collect it, centralize it, and then use it for our business purposes? So there's, you know, it's a wide open field. Remember it used to be, people would say backup, nobody ever changes their backup, nobody wants to change backup. Now surveys are saying within the next two years or so, more than 50% of people are looking to either add a backup product, or just change out their whole backup infrastructure. >> Well that was the interesting about when, you know, the ascendancy of Data Domain, as you recall, you were following the company back then. The beauty of that architecture was, you don't have to change your backup processes. And now, that's maybe a challenge for a company like that. Where people are, because of digital, because of cloud, they're actually looking to change their backup processes. Not unlike, although there are differences, but a similar wave, remember the early days of virtualization, you had, you're loosing physical resources, so you had to rethink backup. Are you seeing similar trends today, with cloud, and digital? >> Yeah, the cloud, containers, microservices, things like that, you know, how do you protect that data? You know people, some people are still struggling with virtualization, you know, like, there's so many more VMs being created so quickly, and that you know, a lot of the backup products still haven't caught up to that. So, I mean Veeam has made an awful great business around dealing with VM backup, right? >> Right. >> Where was everybody else before that? Nobody else could do it. >> We storage guys, we're like the cockroaches of the industry. We're just this, storage just doesn't seem to die. You know the joke is, there's a hundred people in storage and 99 seats. But you've been following it for a long time. Yeah, you see all the hot topics like cloud and multi-cloud and digital transformation. Are you surprised at the amount of venture capital over the last, you know, four or five years, that has flooded in to storage, that continues to flood in to storage? And you see some notable successes, sure some failures, but even those failures, you're seeing the CEOs come out and sell to new companies and you're seeing the rise of a lot of these startups and a lot of these unicorns. Does it surprise you, or is that kind of your expectation? >> Well, I mean, like you said, that's the way it's always been in storage. When you look at storage compared to networking and compute, how many startups are there in those other areas. Very few, but storage keeps getting funded. A couple of years ago, I used to joke, if you said I do Flash, people would just throw hundreds of millions of dollars at you, then it was cloud. There always seem to be like a hot topic, a hot spot, that you can get money from VCs. And there's always four or five, at least, storage vendors who are in that space. >> Yeah, the cloud, the storage cloud AI blockchain company is really the next unicorn right? >> Right, yeah, if you know the right buzz words you can get money. And there's never just one right, there's always a couple in that same area and then one or two make it. >> Yeah, or, and or, if you've done before, right, you're seeing that a lot. I mean, you see what the guys like, for instance at Datrium are doing. Brian Biles he did it a Data Domain, and now he's, they just did a giant raise. >> Qumulo. >> Yeah, you know, Qumulo, for sure. Obviously the Cohesity are sort of well known, in terms of how they've done giant raises. So there's massive amount of capital now pouring in, much of which will go into innovation. It's kind of, it's engineering and it's you know, go to market and marketing. So, you know, no doubt, that that innovation curve will continue. I guess you can't bet against data growth. >> Right, you know, yeah, right, everybody knows data is going to grow. They're saying it's the new oil, right. Data is the big thing. The interesting thing with the funding stuff now is the, not the new companies, but the companies that have been around a little bit, and it's now time for them to start showing revenue. And where in the past it was easier for them to get money, now it seems a little tougher for those guys. So, you know, we could see more companies go away without getting bought up or go public but-- >> Okay, great. Dave, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Alright. >> It was great to have you. >> Thanks for having me on. >> Alright keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE from Veritas Vision in Central Park. We'll be right back. (theCUBE theme music)