>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering Micron Insight 2019. Brought to you by Micron. >>Welcome back to Pier 27 sentences. You're beautiful day here. You're watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage recovering micron inside 2019 hashtag micron in sight. My co host, David Floy er and I are pleased to welcome Michael Wood, Acre Cube alum and a fellow at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Michael, good to see you again. Thanks. Coming on. >>Thanks for having me. >>So you're welcome? So you're talking about HBC on a panel today? But of course, your role inside of HP is is a wider scope. Talk about that a little bit. >>She also I'm the lead technologists in our Compute Solutions business unit that pack out Enterprise. So I've come from the group that worked on in memory computing the Superdome flex platform around things like traditional enterprise computing s it, Hannah. But I'm now responsible not only for that mission critical solutions platform, but also looking at our blades and edge line businesses. Well said broader technology. >>Okay. And then, of course, today we're talking a lot about data, the growth of data and As you say, you're sitting on a panel talking about high performance computing and the impact on science. What are you seeing? One of the big trends in terms of the intersection between data in the collision with H. P. C and science. >>So what we're seeing is just this explosion of data and this really move from traditionally science of space around how you put equations into supercomputers. Run simulations. You test your theories out, look at results. >>Come back in a couple weeks, >>exactly a potential years. Now. We're seeing a lot of work around collecting data from instruments or whether it's genomic analysis, satellite observations of the planner or of the universe. These aerial generating data in vast quantities, very high rates. And so we need to rethink how we're doing our science to gain insights from this massive data increase with seeing, >>you know, when we first started covering the 10th year, the Cuban So in 2010 if you could look at the high performance computing market as sort of an indicator of some of the things that were gonna happen in so called big data, and some of those things have played out on I think it probably still is a harbinger. I wonder, how are you seeing machine intelligence applied to all this data? And what can we learn from that? In your opinion, in terms of its commercial applications. >>So a CZ we'll know this massive data explosion is how do we gain insights from this data? And so, as I mentioned, we serve equations of things like computational fluid dynamics. But now things are progressing, so we need to use other techniques to gain understanding. And so we're using artificial intelligence and particularly today, deep learning techniques to basically gain insights from the state of Wei. Don't have equations that we can use to mind this information. So we're using these aye aye techniques to effectively generate the algorithms that can. Then you bring patterns of interest to our you know, focused of them, really understand what is the scientific phenomenon that's driving the things particular pattern we're seeing within the data? So it's just beyond the ability of the number of HPC programmers, we have the sort of traditional equation based methodologies algorithms to gain insight. We're moving into this world where way just have outstripped knowledge and capabilities to gain insight. >>So So how does that? How is that being made possible? What are the differences in the architecture that you've had to put in, for example, to make this sort of thing possible? >>Yeah, it's it's really interesting time, actually, a few years ago seemed like computing was starting to get boring because wears. Now we've got this explosion of new hardware devices being built, basically moving into the more of a hetero genius. Well, because we have this expo exponential growth of data. But traditional computing techniques are slowing down, so people are looking at exaggerate er's to close that gap and all sorts of hatred genius devices. So we've really been thinking. How do we change that? The whole computing infrastructure to move from a compute centric world to a memory centric world? And how can we use memory driven computing techniques to close that gap to gain insight, so kind of rethinking the whole architectural direction basically merge, sort of collapsing down the traditional hierarchy you have, from storage to memory to the CPU to get rid of the legacy bottlenecks in converting protocols from process of memory storage down to just a simple basically memory driven architecture where you have access to the entire data set you're looking at, which could be many terabytes to pad of eyes to exabytes that you can do simple programming. Just directly load store to that huge data set to gain insights. So that's that's really changed. >>Fascinating, isn't it? So it's the Gen Z. The hope of Gen Z is actually taking place now. >>Yes, so Gen Z is an industry led consulting around a memory fabric and the, you know, Hewlett Packard Enterprise Onda whole host of industry partners, a part of the ecosystem looking at building a memory fabric where people can bring different innovations to operate, whether it's processing types, memory types, that having that common infrastructure. I mean, there's other work to in the industry the Compute Express Link Consortium. So there's a lot of interest now in getting memory semantics out of the process, er into a common fabric for people to innovate. >>Do you have some examples of where this is making a difference now, from from the work in the H B and your commercial work? >>Certainly. Yeah, we're working with customers in areas like precision medicine, genomex basically exaggerating the ability to gain insights into you know what medical pathway to go on for a particular disease were working in cybersecurity. Looking at how you know, we're worried about security of our data and things like network intrusion. So we're looking at How can you gain insights not only into known attacking patterns on a network that the unknown patents that just appearing? So we're actually a flying machine learning techniques on sort of graft data to understand those things. So there's there's really a very broad spectrum where you can apply these techniques to Data Analytics >>are all scientists now, data scientists. And what's the relationship between sort of a classic data scientist, where you think of somebody with stats and math and maybe a little bit of voting expertise and a scientist that has much more domain expertise you're seeing? You see, data scientists sort of traversed domains. How are those two worlds coming together? >>It's funny you mentioned I had that exact conversation with one of the members of the Cosmos Group in Cambridge is the Stephen Hawking's cosmology team, and he said, actually, he realized a couple of years ago, maybe he should call himself a day two scientists not cosmologist, because it seemed like what he was doing was exactly what you said. It's all about understanding their case. They're taking their theoretical ideas about the early universe, taking the day to measurements from from surveys of the sky, the background, the cosmic background radiation and trying to pair these together. So I think your data science is tremendously important. Right now. Thio exhilarate you as they are insights into data. But it's not without you can't really do in isolation because a day two scientists in isolation is just pointing out peaks or troughs trends. But how do you relate that to the underlying scientific phenomenon? So you you need experts in whatever the area you're looking at data to work with, data scientists to really reach that gap. >>Well, with all this data and all this performance, computing capacity and almost all its members will be fascinating to see what kind of insights come out in the next 10 years. Michael, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is great to have you. >>Thank you very much. >>You're welcome. And thank you for watching. Everybody will be right back at Micron Insight 2019 from San Francisco. You're watching the Cube

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering Micron Insight 2019 to You by Micron. >>We're back to Pier 27 in lovely San Francisco, Everybody. I'm Dave a lot with my co host, David Floy Er and you're watching the Cube, the leader and live tech coverage. Evan cursed Ellis here. He's a social digital influencer. First time in the Cube. Evan, Great to see you. >>Thanks for having me. First time's the best. >>You Very well. And it is beautiful. Out him in October is the best month in San Francisco. Way better way warmer than July. I mean, you live out here. Holy cow. All right, let's get right into it. You're just fresh off of mobile work. World Congress down in L. A. >>This morning. Yeah, five g on the brain's >>s. So what do we need to know about five g? You >>know, I think my big takeaway as an industry observer is that five g Israel, and it's now I mean, we've seen 5 10 years, maybe of hype, an expectation and marketing buzz and even spin. But I think we're now in the business of practical deployments, scaling rollouts of networks and that's, you know, as a industry observers, quite exciting. >>So what is five g mean for the average user? I mean, is it gonna be like going from dial up toe, high speed Internet or, you know, it's gonna be interesting. >>The average user, I think we'll experience, you know, like a 10 x increase in their current experience on mobile in terms of uploads and downloads and speed and Leighton see, And that kind of thing, which is super exciting, it's it's gonna blow people's mind. >>An ex stoked to get a 10 extra. When can I get this? >>It's when and it's where, right? I mean, if you look at how these networks are evolving, there are hundreds of thousands of small cells of base stations that have to be deployed naturally to get five G ubiquitous across the country. So it's it's when it's where it's how. But we're here. We're at the starting point and look for the next years and months ahead to see that riel attraction. >>If I look now when I travel around the country, I still have four G. I still have three g. I still have edge. I have a ll the old ones are still there, and it's taken forever, even just to get to 40. So isn't lesson. Isn't the rollout of this going to take a long time ago or 10 year horizon? >>I think, to get ubiquitous coverage indoor, outdoor, suburban, urban, rural It's going to take 10 years. But if you look at those hot spots that generate a lot of activity, whether it's, you know, indoor coverage in the Enterprise, whether it's, you know, the Bruins playing in Boston Garden I mean those air where five G is really going to come into play first and then it's going to sort of go outside of those urban dense areas. >>You mean like the fan experience in the fan experience in the venue >>is huge? I mean, if you go to any you know, baseball, basketball, football game, you know what the experience is like Pretty pretty bad, right? So horrible. So those kind of hot spots are ripe for five g like right away today. Now, >>so by the way, David, sometimes I get five g on my that's right, and I feel like it's fake. Five years like HD ready. What's that all about? Well, you know, >>these networks evolve, and so the carriers are maximizing for G, including biggest speed on four G and five. Gene is really if overlay to these existing networks. And so, as you get your next Samsung, you know five G enabled devices. Apple next year comes out with a five G iPad. You'll then begin to use. The service is as you use your existing device. >>Can you help us understand the fundamental architecture of five G? My understanding is it's, you know, no basis more distributed on. That's part of the reason why it's taking so long to roll out. But what do we need to know about that E? >>I think it's a brand new editor interface. So if you think about the current radio on for G, they reinvented the wheel with five G, which means you can support a huge number of endpoints of I o. T devices of wearables of home access points. And so it enables almost a 10 to 100 ex war devices in terms of scale. So while the end user may think this is business as usual, what's really happening on the network side is pretty revolutionary And once the networks are primed and built and ready, what's gonna be happening on the device side is gonna be really extraordinary. You're talking about a K A video on a mobile device or augmented reality through in new kinds of glasses. And so it's sort of a chicken and a little bit. You know what? She's gonna come first, the network or the incredible new devices. So we're seeing now the network's being put in place for those wave of devices, >>which makes sense. Device manufactures don't want over rotate into something that's not quite. >>But if you look at the network, it's you have to have a lot of device is very close to each other. I in my area that all these the holdings holding these hearings about radiation, everything else like that, which is never, never really a problem unless you're underneath. >>Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of fun, you know, fear, uncertainty around five G. >>Yeah, and I'm just the practical thing. You gotta have all of these lots of these very close in the The exposure to having a gap of some sort is pretty high. >>Yeah, I think it's an issue of frequencies as well. Right now, we're seeing very high frequency five deployed for those dense urban suburban areas. We're going to Seymour Spectrum rolled out next year. The FCC is putting out new auction so you'll see lower bit rate five g rolled out for suburban and rural areas. So it's a It's a work in progress, but the fact that we have first devices first silicon for software first networks. It's kind of a big inflection >>point, but some bumps. I'm inferring this ATT the back end. It could be a lot of machine to machine communications, so that's kind of sets up this whole coyote and an edge discussion. And of course, that means more data. What can you tell us about how that's going to affect really the amount of data and how we use that data? >>The data explosion is extraordinary. I mean, we experience this as early adopters here at the table every day, and so no one's ever said, you know, my network is fast enough is good enough, secure enough. There's always that insatiable appetite now, given the connected world in which we live. And so it's not just the network speed it's the input output of the device. I mean, we have Leighton see that frankly, from these networks operates at the speed of the human brain, you know, in in milliseconds, in terms of input output on the network. And so that's really gonna change the user experience to when the way you do gaming or collaboration or video conferencing video calls and all these service is we use today will be much more tuned to how we live and work. >>So dial upto high speed Internet obvious Are you want? I'll update you say you go back. I'm also I know remember this stuff But that was a significant change. Obvious step change, really a step function. Exactly. But subsequent to that it was I could doom. Or but it was just so much more data and acts were flowing through the network that it really didn't change the experience a little bit. Maybe, actually, you know, be careful. I watched the Patriots game on the plane on the NFL app on the way out here, which could probably have done a year or two ago, but so that was that's goodness. But generally speaking, the experience is substantially similar. Will you said a 10 X before? Will the user actually see a difference like that kind of dial up to high speed step function? Or is it going to be sort of a slow roll? >>I think the user will see a big a big improvement because of the efficiencies of the network and the way in which data is kind of throttled and limited. Today, with three and four for G networks, I think more interestingly, is how businesses and enterprises and sm bees will consume. Five g. I mean, there are a lot of antiquated networks out there, whether it's legacy wired Network, D S. L. Whether it's, you know, crappy WiFi that we all experience in hotel rooms, five g has the opportunity to come in and really displace all of that legacy crap that that's in our networks and give users in those enterprises hotels, venues, a brand new experience. And when's the last time you had a bad hotel? WiFi, for the idea of, of getting rid of a legacy network and delivering those high speed service is from a public network. It's her Private networking is a really exciting opportunity for the carriers and, really, for the B two B enterprise. >>Well, the technology suppliers are pumped about their pumped and their >>look at their profitability, their revenue, their sales. Everything's up. >>Well, the thing is that that is, the carriers, like you say they have no choice but to remain competitive. They have to consume. They have to spend more >>on what a great time in the mobile industry. I mean to be a consumer of devices and service is, I mean, the consumers that businesses are winning in this march. >>So tell us about Mobile World Congress. What was the vibe? It was >>very buzzy. I mean, there were lots of Rhea World applications on display, whether wearable devices for health care and hospital T applications. There were examples of remote controlled autonomous shipping and autonomous trucking monitored, supervised with five G. There were examples of vehicle to vehicle communications for accident, safety purposes being deployed in the next generation of cars baked in, and so five. He's gotten very practical. Now it's like, Okay, we've built this network, we have silicon, we have software we have storage memory out of we deploy it so is very focused on deployment usage and an application. >>If you take that one of automotive, for example, if you're a god, health and life on your If you If you can't guarantee that you've got connectivity toe, what's the value wouldn't do? For example, wouldn't you prefer vehicle to vehicle direct communication, as opposed to going outside to some much faster? >>Exactly. Exactly. And there's a new technology called vehicle Be two extra people vehicle standards that are being baked so that that's not funny. It's based on the five of the family of standards, and so one of the technologies within the five G family is vehicle to vehicle. Qualcomm's doing some amazing work there. And once the automobile manufacturers baked that technology into cars, the car manufacturers can then build in vehicle avoidance, vehicle collision technology and so forth. >>So I'm worried that was some talk about a I right? I mean, lots of talk that mobile world Congress, you're gonna hear a lot about here. What about the ecosystem that's emerging to support five G? There's gotta be a whole value chain specialized chips. I mean, obviously, micron, you know? Yeah, you know, the >>whole supply chain has to come together and Micron powering all of these devices with memory and storage to the application developers to the O E ems to the network providers. And so that ecosystem is getting really baked, fully baked and and integrated. And that was on display at MWC, too. So all these things are coming together, and I think it's pretty exciting. As a long time skeptic like yourself. I saw some real world. >>I say, I'm excited about it. I just I'm just not holding my breath. Don't >>hold your breath. Not >>recommended weight. That's great, Evan. Thanks very much for coming in. Thanks so much. Appreciate your insights. Thanks so much. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. But it will be back from Micron Insight 2019 from San Francisco. You're watching the Cube?

>> Hi, I'm Peter Burroughs Wellcome to wicked bon action >> item from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto, California So today we've got a great conversation, and what we're going to be talking about is hybrid cloud hybrid. Claude's been in the news a lot lately. Largest consequences from changes made by a Ws is they announced Outpost and acknowledged for the first time that there's going to be a greater distribution of data on a greater distribution of function as enterprise has moved to the cloud. We've been on top of this for quite some time, and it actually coined what we call true hybrid cloud, which is the idea that increasingly, we're going to see a need for a common set of capabilities and services in multiple locations so that the cloud could move to the data and not the data automatically being presumed to move to the cloud. >> Now to have that >> conversation and to reveal some new research on what the cost in value propositions of the different options are available. Today. We've >> got David Foyer. David. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you. So, David, let's start. When we talk about Hybrid Cloud, we're seeing a continuum of different options start to emerge. What are the defining characteristics? >> Yes, we're seeing it could continue him emerging. We have what we've called standalone off course. That one is end of the spectrum on DH. There we have multi cloud, and then we have loosely and tightly coupled, and then we have true and as you go up the spectrum. So the dependence upon data depends on the data plane dependence upon low latent see dependance on writing does a systems of record records. All of those increase as we going from from lonely for High Leighton Sea and High Band with all way up to low late. >> So let me see if I got this right. It's true. I've a cloud is at one end and true. Either cloud is low late and see right on into workloads simplest possible administration. That means we're typically goingto have a common stack in all locations. Next to that is this notion of tightly coupled hybrid cloud, which could be higher late. And see, right oriented could probably has a common set of software on all no common mental state. And then, kind of this. This notion of loosely coupled right multi or hybrid cloud, which is low, high late and see, write or read oriented, which may have just a P I level coordination and commonality and all >> that's right. And then you go down even further to just multi cloud, where you're just connecting things, and each of them is independent off each other. >> So if I'm a CEO and I'm looking at a move to a cloud, I have to think about Greenfield applications and the natural distribution of data for those Greenfield applications. And that's going to help me choose which class of hybrid clawed him and he used. But let's talk about the more challenging from a set of scenarios for most CEOs, which is the existing legacy applications as I cry that Rangel yeah, systems of record. As I try to bring those those cloud like experience to those applications, how am I going through that thought process? >> So we have some choices. The choices are I could move it up to lift and shift up to on a one of the clouds by the large clouds, many of them around. And what if I if I do that what I'm need to be looking at is, what is the cost of moving that data? And what is the cost of pushing that up into the cloud and lost the conversion cast if I need to move to another database, >> and I think that's the biggest one. So it just costs of moving the data, which is just uninterested. It's a cost of format changes at our migration and all the other out conversion changes. >> So what I did in my research was focus on systems of record, the the highly expensive, very, very important systems of record, which obviously are fed by a lot of other things their systems, the engagement analytics, etcetera. But those systems of record have to work. They you need to know if you've taken on order, you need to have consistency about that order. You need to know always that you can recover any data you need in your financials, etcetera. All of that is mission critical systems of record. Andi, that's the piece that I focused on here, and I focused on >> sort of. These are loaded and she >> low, very low, latent, right oriented, very right orientated types of applications. And I focused on the oracle because the majority ofthe systems of record run on Oracle databases on the large scale ones, at least so that's what we're we're focusing on here. So I looking at the different options for a C I O off. How they would go on DH. There are three main options open at the moment. There's there's Arkalyk Cloud Cloud, a customer, which gives thie the cloud experience. There is Microsoft as your stack, which has a a Oracle database version of it on DH outposts. But we eliminated outposts not because it's not going to be any good, but because it's not there yet, is >> you get your Razor John thing. >> That's right. So we focused on Oracle on DH as you and we focused on what was the benefit of moving from a traditional environment where you've got best of breed essentially on site to this cloud environment. >> So if we think about it, the normal way of thinking about this kind of a research is that people talk about R. A Y and historically that's been done by looking by keeping the amount of work that's performed has given constant and then looking at how the different technology components compare from a call standpoint. But a move to cloud the promise of a move to cloud is not predicated on lowering costs per se, but may have other financial considerations, of course, but it's really predicated on the notion of the cod experience, which is intended to improve business results. So we think about our lives being a numerator question. Value is the amount of work you do versus the denominator question, which is what resources are consumed to perform that work. It's not just the denominator side we really need to think about. The numerator side is well, you create. So what? What kind of things are we focused >> on? What we think about that value created his consequence of possibilities and options of the cloud. >> Right? So both are important. So so Obviously, when you move to a cloud environment, you can simplify operations. In particular, you can simplify recovery. You, Khun simplify a whole number of things within the shop and those give you extra resources on. Then the question is, Do you just cash in on those resources and say OK, I've made some changes, Or do you use those resources to improve the ability of your systems to work and one important characteristic off it alight and systems of record in particular is that you get depreciation of that asset. Over time, it becomes less fitted to the environment it has started with, so you have to do maintenance on it. You have to do maintenance and work, and as you know most means most work done in my tea shop is on the maintenance side minutes. An enhancement. It's maintenance. An enhancement, yes. So making more resources available on making it easier to do that maintenance are making less, less things that are going to interfere with that faster time to to to maintenance faster time. Two new applications or improvements is really fundamental to systems of record, so that is the value that you can bring to it. And you also bring value with lower of better availability, higher availability as well. So those are the things that we put into the model to see how the different approaches. And we were looking at really a total one. One supplier being responsible for everything, which was the Oracle environment of Oracle clouded customer to a sort of hybrid invite more hybrid environment where you had the the the work environment where you had the equipment coming from different place vendor that the service, the oracle, the as your service coming from Microsoft and, of course, the database coming then from Arkham itself. And we found from tremendous improvement in the value that you could get because of this single source. We found that a better model. >> So the common source led to efficiencies that then allowed a business to generate new classes of value. Because, as you said, you know, seventy plus percent of a night organ orb business is spending. Biology is associate with maintaining which they're enhancing. What's there in a very limited amount is focused on new greenfield or new types of applications. So if you can reduce the amount of time energy that goes into that heritage set of applications those systems of record, the not opens up that frees up resources to do some of the things >> on DH Having inflexibility now with things like As your stack conned in the future E. W. S off. Putting that resource either on premise or in the cloud, means that you can make decisions about where you process things things about where the data is about, where the data needs to be, the best placement of the data for what you're trying to do >> and that that decision is predicated on things like late in sea, but also regulatory, environment and intellectual property, controlling >> the custom moving data up and down. So the three laws of off off the cloud so having that flexibility of moving, keeping it where you want to, is a tremendous value in again in terms ofthe the speed of deployment on the speed of improved. >> So we'll get to the issues surrounding the denominator side of this. I want to come back to that numerator sites that the denominator again is the resources consumed to deliver the work to the business. But when we talk about that denominator side, know you perhaps opening up additional monies to do new types of development new times of work. But take us through some of the issues like you know what is a cloud experience associated with single vendor Faster development. Give us some of the issues that are really driving the value proposition. Look above the line. >> I mean, the whole issue about cloud is that you go on, take away all of the requirements to deal with the hardware deal with the orchestration off the storage deal with all of these things. So instead of taking weeks, months to put in extra resources, you say I want them on is there. >> So you're taking out administrate your taking administrative tasks out of the flow out of the flow, and as a consequence, things happen. Faster is the time of values. One of the first one. Give us another one. >> So obviously the ability to no I have it's a cloud environment. So if you're a vendor of that cloud, what you want to be able to do is to make incremental changes quickly, as opposed to awaiting for a new release and work on a release basis. So that fundamental speed to change speed to improve, bring in new features. Bringing new services a cloud first type model that is a very powerful way for the vendor to push out new things. And for the consumer, too, has absorbed them. >> Right? So the first one is time to value, but also it's lower cost to innovation. >> Yes, faster innovation ability to innovate. And then the third. The third most important part is if you if you re invest those resources that you've saved into new services new capabilities of doing that. To me, the most important thing long term for systems of record is to be able to make them go faster and use that extra Leighton see time there to bring in systems off systems of analytics A. I systems other systems on provide automation of individual business processes, increased automation that is gonna happen over time. That's that's a slow adding to it. But it means you can use those cloud mechanisms, those additional resources, wherever they are. You can use those to provide a clear path to improving the current systems of record. And that is a much faster and more cost effective way than going in for a conversion or moving the data upto the cloud or shifting lift and shift. For these types of acts, >> what kind of they're all kind of related? So I get, I get. I get superior innovation speeds because I'm taking new technology and faster. I get faster time to value because I'm not having to perform much of tasks, and I could get future could imbue additional types of work in support of automation without dramatically expanding the transactional wait and see on arrival rate of turns actions within the system of record. Okay, So how did Oracle and Azure with Oracle stack up in your analysis? >> So first of all, important is both a viable solutions. They both would work okay, but the impact in terms of the total business value, including obviously any savings on people and things like that, was two hundred nineteen eighty three hundred million dollars additional. This was for Robert to come in for a a Fortune two thousand customer, so it was around two billion dollars. So a lot of money over five years, a lot of money. Either way, you would save two hundred million if you were with with the zero but three hundred with the oracle, so that that to me, is far, far higher than the costs of I T. For that particular company, it's It is a strategic decision to be able to get more value out quicker. And for this class of workload on Oracle than Arkalyk, Cloud was the best decision to be absolutely fair If you were on Microsoft's database. And you wanted to go to Microsoft as you. That would be the better bet you would. You would get back a lot of those benefits, >> so stay with him. The stack, if you can't. Correct. All right, So So two billion dollars a year. Five years, ten billion dollars in revenue, roughly between two hundred million and saving for one Congress all around three. Treasure Quest. Oracle three hundred millions were one percent swing. Talk to us about speed value. What >> happens in the numerator side of that equation >> S Oh, so it is lower in caste, but you have a higher. The cast of the actual cloud is a little a little higher. So overall, the pure hardware equipment Cass is is awash is not going to change much. It might be a little bit more expensive. You make the savings a cz? Well, because of the people you less less operators, simpler environment. Those are the savings you're going to make. And then you're going to push those back into into the organization a cz increased value that could be given to the line of business. >> So the closure of the researchers If your CEO, you look at your legacy application going to be difficult to move, and you go with stack. That's best for those legacy applications. And since the vast majority of systems of record or running all scale large scale, then that means work. A cloud of customers is a superior fit for most from a lot of chances. So if you're not there, though, when you look at other options, all right, David Floy er thank you. Thanks very much for being on the Cube today, and you've been watching other wicked bon action >> item from the Cube Studios and Power Rialto, California on Peter Burke's Thanks very much for watching.

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE live coverage of Google Cloud Next '18 in San Francisco. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. We're at day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Go to SiliconANGLE dot com on theCUBE dot net. Check out the on demand videos and the Cloud series special journalism report that we have out there, tons of articles, tons of coverage of Google Next with the news, analysis and opinion, of course, SiliconANGLE. Our next guest is Indranil Chakraborty, Project Manager for IoT Google Cloud. Certainly IoT part of the network part of the Cloud, one of the hottest areas in Cloud is IoT. We've been seeing that. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining us. IoT is certainly the intersection of a lot of things: Cloud, data center, A.I., soon to be, you know, cryptocurrency and blockchain coming down, not for you guys, but in general those are the big hottest areas. >> IOT is not like, you can't say it's an IoT category, so IoT has to kind of sit in the intersection of a lot of different markets that are kind of pure playing. >> So I first want you to explain to the folks out there watching, what is the Google IoT philosophy? What is the products trying to do? And what are guys announcing here? >> Absolutely. Thanks for having me here, it's really great to be here. And if you think about IoT, and if you think about what we have on Google Cloud, we already have a great set of service for data storage, processing, and machine intelligence. Right, so we have Cloud Machine Learning Engine, we have an on start ML. So most of those data processing and intelligence services are already there. What we announced last year was Cloud IoT Core, which is our fully-managed service for our customers and partners who easily and securely connect their IoT devices to Google Cloud, so they can start transmitting data and then ingest and store in the user downstream services for analysis and machine intelligence. >> I mean, IoT is a great use case of Cloud because one, Cloud shows that you can be incented to collect data. >> Right. >> Cuz now you have the lower cost storage, You've got machine learning, all these things are going on. It's great. >> Exactly. >> But Iot is now the Edge of the network. You've got sensors. You've got cars, like Teslas, people can relate to. So everything's coming online has, not just an IP connection, anything that's a sensor. The IoT's been just evolving. What is the Edge to you guys? What does that mean when I say IoT Edge? What is Google view of the Edge? >> Yeah absolutely, it's a great question. You know, we identified early on the emergent trend of moving compute and intelligence to the edge and close to the device itself. So this week, as you already know, we've announced two products for Edge. One is Cloud IoT Edge, which is a software stack which can run on your gateway device, cameras, or any connected device that has some compute capabilities, which extends that powerful AI and machine learning capabilities of Google Cloud to your Edge device. And we also announced Edge TPU, which is a Google designed high performing chip for to run machine learning inference on the Edge device itself. And so with the combination of Cloud IoT Edge as a software stack and with our Edge TPU, we think we have an integrated machine learning solution for on Google Cloud platform. >> How does that get rolled out? So the chip, I'm assuming, you're doing OEM or deals with manufacturers. Same with the software stack. Is the software stack portable? Explain how you roll those out. >> Yeah, you know we are big into working with our ecosystem and we really want to build a robust part of ecosystem. So we are working with semiconductor companies, such as NXP and Arm, who will build a system-on-module using our Google Edge TPU, which can then be used by gateway device makers. So we have partnership with Harting, Nokia, NEXCOM. We're going to take those SOM, add it to their gateway devices, so to take it to the market. We're also working with a lot of computing companies, such as ADLINK, Acton, and a couple of others, Olya. So they can build an analytic solution using our Cloud IoT Edge software and Edge TPU to combine with the rest of Cloud IoT platform. So we're pretty excited about the partners. >> But every coin has two sides, right? So the kind of knock on the Edge is, now you're attack surface on the security side is growing exponentially. So clearly, security is an important part of what you guys do. And now this is kind of a different challenge when you're now, your point to presence is not like our point to presence, but are going to expand exponentially to all these connected autonomous devices. >> Yep, that's a great point. And you know, we take security very seriously. In fact, last year when we announced Cloud IoT Core, we reject any connection that doesn't use TLS, number one, right? And number two, we individually authenticate each and every device using an asymmetry keypad. In addition to that, we've also announced partnership with Microchip. So Microchip has built this microcontroller crypto, which can have the private key inside the crypto, and we use JWT token that was signed by inside the chip itself. So your private key never leaves the chip at all. So that's one additional reinforcement for security. So we have end to end security. We make sure that the devices are connecting over TLS, but we also have hardware root of trust on the Edge device as well. >> The token model is interesting. Talk about blockchain because you know, David Floy on our analyst team, he and I are constantly riffing on that. IoT actually is interesting use case for blockchain and potentially token economics. How do you guys view that? I know that you just mentioned that this is kind of a thing there. Does it fit in your vision at all? What's your position on how that would work out? >> You know, we are closely looking at the blockchain technology. As of today, we don't have anything specific to announce in terms of a product perspective, but we do have, we do use JSON web token, which is standard on the web, use to sign those using our private keys. So that works beautifully, but we're closely monitoring and looking at it. We don't have anything to announce today. >> Not yet, but they're going to share that. Their research is working on it, interesting scenario. So in general, benefits to customers who're working with IoT, your team, cuz you have the core, you have the chip, you have the software stack. There's always an architectural discussion depending upon the environment. Do you move the compute to the data? Do you move the data to the Cloud? What's the role of data in all this cuz certainly you got the processing power. What's the architectural framework and benefits to the customers who are working with Google. >> Yeah, so let's make a specific example, LG CNS. They want to improve their productivity in the factory, and what they've done is they've built a machine learning model to detect defects on their assembly line using Cloud machine learning engine. And they've used this one engineer a couple of weeks and they would train the model on Cloud. Now with Cloud IoT Edge and the Edge TPU, they can run that train model locally on the camera itself, so they can do realtime defect analysis at a pretty fast moving assembly line. So that's the model which we are working on where you use Cloud for high compute for training, but you use the Edge TPU and the Cloud IoT Edge for local inference for real time detection as well. >> How do you guys look at the IoT market because depending on how you're looking at it, you can look at smart cities, you can look at self-driving cars? There's a huge aperture of different use cases. It could be humans with devices, also you guys have Android, so it's kind of a broad scope. You guys got to kind of have that core tech, which it sounds like you're putting in the center of all this. How do you guys look at that? How do you guys organize around that? I think Ann Green mentioned verticals, for instance, is there different verticals? I mean, how do you guys go at that mark with the product? >> IoT is a nation market. And what we offer as Google Cloud, is a horizontal platform, what we call it is Cloud IoT platform, which has got Cloud IoT core on the Cloud side, Cloud IoT Edge, the Edge TPU. And we really want to work with our partners our solution integrators and ISVs, to help build those vertical applications. And so we're working with partners on the healthcare side, manufacturing. We have Odin Technology as one of the partner to really build this vertical up. >> You guys are not going to be dogmatic, this is how our IoT sleeve. You're going to let a thousand flowers bloom kind of philosophy. Put it out there, connect, and let the innovation happen with the ecosystem. >> Yeah, we really believe in driving, moving the, having robust ecosystem. So we want to provide a horizontal platform, which really makes it easy for partners and customers to build vertical solutions. >> Another kind of unique IoT challenge, which you didn't have in the past, we've all seen great pictures of the inside of Google Data Centers. They're beautiful and tight and lots of pretty pictures, very different than out in a minefield or a lot of these challenging IT environments where power could be a challenge. The weather could be a challenge. Connectivity to the internet could be a challenge. Obviously, and then you need to power them. When you talk about how much store do you have locally, how much compute do you have locally. So as you look at that landscape, how has that shaped your guys' views? What are some of the unique challenges that you guys have faced? And how are you overcoming some of those? >> Yeah, that's a great question and this is one of the primary reasons why we announced Cloud IoT Edge, which is software stack, and Edge TPU. So that for use cases where you have limited connectivity, oil wells or farm field, windmills. Connectivity is limited, and you cannot rely on connectivity for reliable operations. But you can use Cloud IoT Edge with our partner device ecosystem to run some of the compute locally. You can store data locally. You can analyze locally, and then push some of the incremental data to the Cloud to further update your model in the Cloud. So that's how we were thinking about this. We have to have some compute locally for those reasons. >> Release the hard coupling, if you will. So it's really got to be a dynamic coupling based on the situation, based on the timing, maybe. >> Exactly. >> Schedule updates, and these type of things. So it's not just connected. >> Exactly. It doesn't need to be continuously connected, right? As long as there's enough connectivity to download some of the updated model, to download the latest firmware and the software. You can run local compute and local machine learning inference on the Edge itself. That's the model we're looking at. So you can train in Cloud, push down the updates to the Edge device, and you can run local compute and intelligence on the device itself. >> A lot of conscious we've been having lately has been about, how do you manage the Edge, has been an area of discussion. Why I want to have a multi-threaded computer, basically, on a device that could be attacked with malware, putting bounds around certain things. You need the IP there. You want to have as much compute, obviously, we'd agree. But there's going to be policies you're starting to think about. This is where I think it gets interesting when you look at what's going on at the abstractions up the stack that you guys are doing. How does that kind of thinking impact some rollouts of IoT because I'm looking to imagine that you won't have policies. Some might trickle data back. It might not be data intensive. Some might want more security. Containers, all this kind of tying in. Is that right? Am I getting that right? How do you see that happening? >> So when you think about Edge, there are different layers. There are different tiers. There are the gateway class devices, which has high compute, and all the way to sensors. Our focus really is on the Edge devices, which has some decent compute capabilities and you can scale up to high-end devices as well. And when you think about policies, on the Cloud side, we have IM policies, so you can define roles, and you can define policies, based on which you can decide which devices should get what software or which user should get access to particular data types as well. So we have the infrastructure already, and we're leveraging that for the IoT platform. >> Yeah, and automate a lot of those kind of activities as well. >> Exactly. >> Alright, so I got to ask you about the show. What's some of the cool things you're seeing, for the folks that couldn't make it that are watching this video live and on demand. What's happening here at Google? What's the phenomenon Google Cloud? What are some of the hot stories? What's the vibe? What are the cool things that you are seeing? >> Absolutely. So I'm biased, so I'm going to start with IoT. You know, we have an IoT showcase where we have a pedestal where we're showing the Edge TPU and the Edge TPU board as well. And there is a lot of work which is happening there. There's a maintenance team there as well, so I would highly encourage attendees to go check it out. >> What are people saying about that? The demos and the sessions, what are some of the feedback? Share some color commentary around reactions. >> Yeah, we've been getting a lot of positive reactions. In fact, we just had a couple of breakout sessions, and a lot of interest from partners across the board to engage with us. So we are pretty excited with our announcement on the Edge side. The whole orchestration of training model in the Cloud and then pushing it down and then sending updates, that's where it really makes it easy for a lot of the partners. So they're excited about it as well. >> They're going to make some good money with it too. You guys are making the mark, and not trying to go too far. Laying the foundational work, the horizontal scale. >> Yes, exactly. And we really focused, for the Edge TPU, we really focused on performance per dollar and performance per watt. And so that has been what we are striving to really have high performance for lower cost. So that's what we're targeting. And a couple of other things, the whole server-less capabilities, and the fact that Cloud functions have become GA, is pretty exciting. And Cloud IoT Core is also a fully managed server-less architecture in a machine. The AI and auto ML which we announced with NLP and text and speech is pretty exciting as well. And that works very well with some of our IoT use cases as well. So I think those are a couple of announcements, which I'm pretty excited about. >> Yeah, I think the automation theme too, really resonated well on all that. Cuz what comes out of that is, humans still got to be more proficient in doing the new stuff, but also they got to run this. And you've got developers enough to build apps that drives value, so you got the value development with the applications, and then also the operational side, which is, I don't want to say becoming generic, but it's not specialized as used to be. Network operator, this guys does this, this gal does that. I mean, it used to be very stove piped. Now it's much more of a how do you run the environment? >> Exactly, and to your point, even on the IoT space, it's also very relevant. I mean there are a lot of overlaps between what used to be just devops and OTE and IT. There are a lot of overlaps there. And so we're looking at it closely as well to make sure that we can really simplify the overall requirement and the tooling which is needed for building an IoT solution. >> For the people that are not following Google as closely as say we are, for instance, they're not inside the ropes, inside the baseball, if you will, in the industry. See Google Cloud, they know Google as Gmail, search, et cetera. They look a couple years ago, Google Cloud had app engine, the OG of Google Cloud, as it's called. What would you say to the folks now that are watching? What's different about Google Cloud now, and what should they know about Google Cloud that they may not know about. What would you say to that person? >> Absolutely, and the first thing is we are very serious about enterprise. You can see here the number of attendees who have come here and how we have multiple buildings where we organized the conference. We're very serious over enterprise. Second, back in the days, two years back, we were really focused on building products, which works for specific use cases. We didn't think about end to end solution, but now the focus has changed. And we're really thinking about, we always had the technology with packaging the products, and now we're thinking about providing end to end solutions, the framework where for a business user, enterprise user, they can just take the solution, and they know it will work. Alright, so there's been a lot of focus on that. And our key differentiator is about machine intelligence and AI, right? That's where Google thrives. We've been spending a lot of time on it, and now we're focused on democratizing AI. Not just on the Cloud, but also on the Edge with the announcement of HTPU. >> And I really think you guys have done a good job with the mindset of making it consumable. In an end to end framework with the option. We've got Kubernetes, and Container's been around for a while, but it's working with multiple environments. I think that is a real mindset shift. >> Exactly. >> So congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on, appreciate it. >> Absolutely, was great having you guys. >> Google IoT, just plug into the Google Cloud. It'll suck all your data in. Give you some compute at the Edge. Open it up to partners, really focusing on the ecosystem and enabling new types of functionality. It's theCUBE, bringing you the data here on day three at Google Cloud Next '18. We'll be right back with more coverage. Stay with us after this short break. (modern music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Orlando, Florida for Cisco Live 2018. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Our next guest, Eric Herzog, Chief Marketing Officer and Vice President Global Channel Sales for IBM Storage. CUBE alum, great to see you. Thanks for comin' by. >> Great, we always love comin' and talkin' to theCUBE. >> Love havin' you on. Get the insight, and you get down and dirty in the storage. But I gotta, before we get into the storage impact, the cloud, and all the great performance requirements, and software you guys are building, news is that the CEO of Cisco swung by your booth? >> Yes, Chuck did come by today and asked how-- Chuck Robbins came by today, asked how we're doin'. IBM has a very broad relationship with Cisco, beyond just the storage division. The storage division, the IOT division, the collaboration group. Security's doin' a lot of stuff with them. IBM is one of Cisco's largest resellers through the GTS and GBS teams. So, he came by to see how were doin', and gave him a little plug about the VersaStack, and how it's better than any other converge solutions, but talked about all of IBM, and the strong IBM Cisco relationship. >> I mean, it's not a new relationship. Expand on what you guys are doin'. How does that intersect with division that he put on stage yesterday with the keynote. He laid out, and said publicly, and put the stake in the ground, pretty firmly, "This is the old way." Put an architecture, a firewall, a classic enterprise network diagram. >> Right, right. >> And said, "That's the old way," and put in a big circle, with all these different kinda capabilities with the cloud. It's a software defined world. Clearly Cisco moving up the stack, while maintaining the networking shops. >> Right. >> Networking and storage, always the linchpin of cloud and enterprise computing. What's the connection? Share the touch points. >> Sure, well I think the key thing is everyone's gotta realize that whether you're in a private cloud, a hybrid cloud, or a public cloud configuration, storage is that rock solid foundation. If you don't have a good foundation, the building will fall right over, and it's great that you've got cloud with its flexibility, it's ability to transform, the ability to modernize, move data around, but if what's underneath doesn't work, the whole thing topples over, and storage is a cruel element to that. Now, what we've done at IBM is we have made all of our solutions on the storage side, VersaStack, our all-flash arrays, all of our software defined storage, our modern data protection, everything is what we'll say is cloudified. K, it's, I designed for multiple cloud scenarios, whether it be private, hybrid, or public, or, as you've probably seen, in some the enterprise accounts, they actually use multiple public cloud providers. Whether it be from a price issue, or a legal issues, because they're all over the world, and we're supporting that with all our solutions. And, our VersaStack, specifically, just had a CVD done with Cisco, Cisco Validated Design, with IBM Cloud Private on a VersaStack. >> Talk about the scale piece, because this becomes the key differentiator. We've talked about on theCUBE, many of the times with you around, some of the performance you guys have, and the numbers are pretty good. You might wanna do a quick review on that. I'm not lookin' for speech and feeds. Really, Eric, I'd like to get your reaction, and view, and vision, on how the scale piece is kicking, 'cause clients want scale optionality. They're gonna have a lot of stuff on premise. They have cloud goin' on, multi cloud on the horizon, but they gotta scale. The numbers are off the charts. You're seein' all these security threats. I mean, it's massive. How are you guys addressing the scale question with storage? >> So, we've got a couple things. So first of all, the storage itself is easily scalable. For example, on our A9000 all-flash array, you just put a new one, automatically grows, don't have to do anything, k? With our transparent cloud tiering, you can set it up, whether it be our Spectrum Scale software, whether it be our Spectrum Virtualize software, or whether it be on our all-flash arrays, that you could automatically just move data to whatever your cloud target may be. Whether that be something with an object store, whether that be a block store, and it's all automated. So, the key thing here on scalability is transparency, ease of use, and automation. They wanna automatically join new capacity, wanna automatically move data from cloud to cloud, automatically move data from on premise to cloud, automatically move data from on premise to on premise, and IBM's storage solutions, from a software perspective, are all designed with that data mobility in mind, and that transportability, both on premise, and out to any cloud infrastructure they have. >> What should Cisco customers know about IBM storage, if you get to talk to them directly? We're here at Cisco Live. We've talked many times about what you guys got goin' on with the software. Love the software systems approach. You know we dig that. But a Cisco deployment, they've been blocking and tackling in the enterprise for years, clouds there. What's the pitch? What's the value proposition to Cisco clients? >> So, I think they key thing for us talkin' to a Cisco client is the deep level of integration we have. And, in this case, not just the storage division, but other things. So, for example, a lot of their collaboration stuff uses under pitting software from IBM, and IBM also uses some software from Cisco inside our collaboration package. In our storage package, the fact that we put together the VersaStack with all these Cisco Validated Designs, means that the customer, whether it be a cloud product, for example, on the VersaStack, about 20 of our public references are all small and medium cloud providers that wheel in the VersaStack, connect 'em, and it automatically grows simply and easily. So, in that case, you're looking at a cloud provider customer of Cisco, right? When you're looking at a enterprise customer of Cisco, man, the key thing is the level of integration that we have, and how we work together across the board, and the fact that we have all these Cisco Validated Designs for object storage, for file storage, for block storage, for IBM Cloud Private. All these things mean they know that it's gonna work, right outta the box, and whether they deploy it themselves, whether they use one of our resellers, one of our channel partners, or whether they use IBM services or Cisco service. Bottom line, it works right out of the box, easy to go, and they're up and running quickly. >> So, Eric, you talked a bunch about VersaStack, and you've been involved with Cisco and their UCS since the early days when they came up, and helped drive, really, this wave of converged infrastructure. >> Right. >> One of the biggest changes I've seen in the last couple years, is when you talk to customers, this is really their private cloud platform that they're building. When it first got rolled out, it was virtualization. We kinda added a little bit of management there. What, give us your viewpoint as to kinda high-level, why's this still such an important space, what are the reasons that customers are rolling this out, and how that fits into their overall cloud story? >> Well, I think you hit it, Stu, right on the head. First of all, it's easy to put in and deploy, k? That is a big check box. You're done, ready to go. Second thing that's important is be able to move data around easily, k? In an automated fashion like I said earlier, whether that be to a public cloud if they're gonna tier out. If I'm a private cloud, I got multiple data centers. I'm moving data around all the time. So, the physical infrastructure and data center A is a replica, or a DR center, for data center B, and vice versa. So, you gotta be able to move all this stuff around quickly easy. Part of the reason you're seeing converge infrastructure is it's the wave of what's hit in the server world. Instead of racking and stacking individual servers, and individual pieces of storage, you've got a pre-packed VersaStack. You've got Cisco networking, Cisco server, VMware, all of our storage, our storage software, including the ability to go out to a cloud, or with our ICP IBM Private Cloud, to create a private cloud. And so, that's why you're seeing this move towards converge. Yes, there's some hyperconverged out there in the market, too, but I think the big issue, in certain workloads, hyperconverged is the right way to go. In other workloads, especially if you're creating a giant private cloud, or if you're a cloud provider, that's not the way to go because the real difference is with hyperconverged you cannot scale compute and storage independently, you scale them together, So, if you need more storage, you scale compute, even if you don't need it. With regular converge, you scale them independently, and if you need more storage, you get more storage. If you need more compute-- If you need both, you get both. And that's a big advantage. You wanna keep the capex and opex down as you create this infrastructure for cloud. 'Member, part of the whole idea of cloud are a couple things. A, it's supposed to be agile. B, it's supposed to be super flexible. C, of course, is the modern nomenclature, but D is reduce capex and opex. And you wanna make sure that you can do that simply and easily, and VersaStack, and our relationship with Cisco, even if you're not using a VersaStack config, allows us to do that for the end user. >> And somethin' we're seeing is it's really the first step for customers. I need to quote, as you said, modernize the platform, and then I can really start looking at modernizing my applications on top of that. >> Right. Well, I think, today, it's all about how do you create the new app? What are you doin' with containers? So, for example, all of our arrays, and all of our arrays that go into a VersaStack, have free persistent storage support for any containerize environ, for dockers and kubernetes, and we don't charge for that. You just get it for free. So, when you buy those solutions, you know that as you move to the container world, and I would argue virtualization is still here to stay, but that doesn't mean that containers aren't gonna overtake it. And if I was the CEO of a couple different virtualization companies, I'd be thinkin' about buyin' a container company 'cause that'll be the next wave of the future, and you'll say-- >> Don't fear kubernetes. >> Yeah, all of that. >> Yeah, Eric Herzog's flying over to Dockercon, make a big announcement, I think, so. (laughing) >> Evaluation gonna drop a little bit. I gotta ask you a question. I mean, obviously, we watch the trends that David Floy and our team, NVMe is big topic. What is the NVMe leadership plan for you, on the product side, for you? Can you take a minute to share your vision for what that is gonna be? >> Sure, well we've already publicly announced. We've been shipping an NVMe over fabric solution leveraging InfiniBand since February of this year, and we demoed it, actually, in December at the AI Conference in New York City. So, we've had a fabric solution for NVMe already since December, and then shipping in February. The other thing we're doing is we publicly announced that we'd be supporting the other NVMe over fabric protocols, both fabric channel and ethernet by the end of the year. We publicly already announced that. We also announced that we would have an end to end strategy. In this case, you would be talking about NVMe on the fabric side going out to the switching and the host infrastructure, but also NVMe in a storage sub-system, and we already publicly announced that we'd be doing that this year. >> And how's the progress on that plan? You feel good about it? >> We're getting there. I can't comment yet, but just stay tuned on July 1st, and see what happens. >> So, talk about the Spectrum NAS, and other announcements that you have. What's goin' on? What are the big news? What's happening? >> Well, I think that, yeah, the big thing for us has been all about software. As you know, for the analysts that track the numbers, we are, and ended up in 2017, as tied as the number one storage software company in the world, independent of our system's business. So, one of the key powers there is that our software works with everyone's gear, whether it be a white box through a distributor or reseller, whether it be our direct competitors. Spectrum Protect, which is a, one of the best enterprise backup packages. We backup everybody's gear, our gear, NetApp's gear, HP's gear, Pure's gear, Hitachi's gear, the old Dell stuff, it doesn't matter to us, we backup everything. So, one of the powers that IBM has, from a software perspective, is always being able to support not only our own gear, but supporting all of our competitors as well. And the whole white box market, with things that our partners may put together through the distributors. >> I know somethin' might be obvious to you, but just take me through the benefits to the customer. What's the impact to the customer? Obviously, supporting everything, it sounds like you guys have done that with software, so you're agnostic on hardware. >> Right. >> So, is it a single pane of glass? What's the benefit to the customer with that software capability? >> Yeah, I feel there's a couple things. So, first of all, the same software that we sell as standalone software, we also sell on our arrays. So if you're in a hybrid configuration, and you're using our Flashsystem V9000 in our Storwize family, that software also works with an EMC, or NetApp box. So, one license, one way to do everything, one set of training, which in a small shop is not that important, but in a big shop, you don't have to manage three licenses, right? You don't have to get trained up on three different ways to do things, and you don't have to, by the way, document, which all the big companies would do. So it dramatically simplifies their life from an opex perspective. Makes it easier for them to run their business. >> Eric, we'd love to get your opinion on just how's Cisco doin' out there? It's a big sprawling company. I looked at the opening keynote, the large infrastructure business doing very well in the data center, but they've got collaboration, they do video, they're moving out in the cloud. Wanna see your thoughts as to how are they doing, and still making sure they take care of core networking, while still expanding and going through their own transformation, that they're talkin' very public about. How do we measure Cisco as a software company? >> Well, we see some very good signs there. I mean, we partner with 'em all the time, as I mentioned, for example, in both the security group and our collaboration group, and I'm not talkin' storage now, just IBM in general, we leverage software from them, and they leverage software from us. We deliver joint solutions through our partners, or through each of the two service organizations, but we also have products where we incorporate their software into ours, and they incorporate software in us. So, from our perspective, we've already been doing it beyond their level, now, of expanding into a much greater software play. For us, it's been a strong play for us already because of the joint work we've been doing now for several years on software that they've been selling in the more traditional world, and now pushing out into the broader areas, like cloud, for example. >> Awesome work. Eric, thanks for coming on. I gotta ask you one final, personal, question. >> Sure. >> You got the white shirt on, you usually have a Hawaiian shirt on. >> Well, because Chuck Robbins came by the booth, as we talked about earlier today, felt that I shouldn't have my IBM Hawaiian shirt on, however, now that I've met Chuck, next time, at next Cisco Live, I'll have my IBM Hawaiian shirt on versus my IBM traditional shirt. >> Chuck's a cool guy. Thanks for comin' on. As always, great commentary. You know your stuff. >> Great, thank you. >> Great to have the slicing and dicing, the IBM storage situation, as well as the overall industry landscape. At Cisco Live, we're breakin' it down, here on theCUBE in Orlando. Second day of three days of coverage. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more live coverage after this break.

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're live here, day three of three days of coverage of theCUBE at Dell EMC World 2017. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Paul Gillin and special guest on our day-three opening, Peter Burris, head of research of SiliconANGLE Media, general manager of wikibon.com research. Guys, good to see you on day three. We're goin' strong. I mean, I think I feel great, a lot of activity. So many story lines to talk about. Obviously the big one is the combination, not merger, I slipped yesterday, or acquisition, the combination of equals, Dell, EMC. Some will question did EMC acquire Dell or Dell acquire EMC? Certainly Michael Dell's still captain of the ship. But that's the top story. But a lot of product line conversations. Not a lot of overlap. Peter, you've been at all the analyst sessions. We had David Furrier on yesterday, teasing it up, but I'd like to get you, your perspective and reaction to your thoughts as you look at the giants in the industry. Michael Dell bought EMC for a record 60 billion plus. You've been around the block. You've seen many waves. You've analyzed many generations of the computer industry. What does this actually mean. Where are they, what's your thoughts and reaction? >> So John, I'll give you three different story lines here, right? The meta-picture, the good, and the what the hell's goin' on kind of picture. The first one, the meta-picture is, and SiliconANGLE said this, it was a really well written article, you might have even written it Paul, that there has never really been a successful mega-merger in the tech industry. And historically I think that's because, well here's the bottom line. This one may actually work. And it may actually work nicely. And the reason is is that most of the other mergers or combinations were companies with problems and companies that didn't have problems. Or companies with problems and companies with problems. And if you take a look at Dell and EMC, neither of them had problems. They weren't buying each other's problems. It was a nice combination and complimentary in that EMC had a great consumer business, great channel business, and had a pretty strong financial position. And EMC had a great enterprise business, great, you know-- >> Sales organizations. >> Great sales organization. And they had, they were strong in where the industry's going around how do you handle data and how do you handle storage. So it's got, what we're seeing here is everybody singing out of the same hymnal. I'm not seeing any tension. And that is an indication that this one may actually go well. I think it's a very, very good early sign. >> Paul, you and I were talking on the day one open and also, we kind of hit it a little bit yesterday with David Furrier, talking about this mega-merger. Compare and contrast that to HBE, which is been kind of, being de-positioned by some of the Dell executives. They don't actually call 'em out by name, but HP Enterprise is taking a different approach. They're taking a, you know, smaller is better approach. Obviously, Michael Dell has a complete different philosophy. We're still going to analyze that as well. We've got HPE Discover coming up as well. Thoughts on the compare and contrast, guys, reaction to the strategies of HPE, smaller, faster, as they say. Or Dell, bigger, more powerful. >> I think both are viable strategies. It's just a matter of if they can pull it off. I mean, HP, you talk about bad mergers, Peter, I mean you think of HP Compact, HP Autonomy, this is a company that has had a terrible track record of big mergers. Although they've had some successful ones certainly. >> By the Meg Whitman inherited those. >> Yes. >> Prior to Meg Whitman coming on board. >> Oh she was a board member for some of them. >> Okay, so she was at the table. Now, we don't know, okay but your thoughts, continue. >> But Dell, clearly going the other direction. They, I mean, they're building sort of an IBM-like model, the way IBM was in the '80s when it dominated every market that it played in. And it played at even more markets than Dell does now. So I think that the model makes sense. I think Peter's absolutely right, I'm not sensing any tension at this conference. There seems to be, the most important thing is there seems to be a lot of communication going on. The executives are spending a lot of time with each other and they're talking a lot to the people. And when you look back, and I live, and Peter, you remember the DEC, you know, the fiasco with DEC being purchased by Compaq. That was clearly a takeover. And that was Compaq came in, took over the company and didn't tell anybody anything. And the DEC people were living in the dark and it was clear that they had no value to the acquiring company. That, clearly, they're not making those mistakes here. >> For the younger, for the younger audience, DEC is Digital Equipment Corporation which was a behemoth winner in the micro, mini-computer era and then now defunct company. >> Except the one, one thing I'd add to that, Paul, is that, and this is why, it's why this first sign is so important. That they are seem to be, that executives here seem to be collaborating and working together. DEC had been one of those mini-computer companies dominated by an OEM business, which means you had a common set of components and then everybody was competing for customers with how you put those components together. So there was, it was a, it was a maelstrom of internal competition at DEC. When Compaq got ahold of DEC, that DEC sense of internal competition took over Compaq. And then when Compaq, when HP acquired Compaq, that maelstrom and internal competition took over HP. >> They didn't know what they were getting into. >> We used to call it the red-blue wars and it was ugly. And that's not happening here. That's a first sign. >> Yeah, I would agree Peter. I want to get your thoughts to all that. I would agree that this is, I've been tryin' to sniff out where the wind's blowin' on this for a year and to my knowledge, and my insight and sources, it's not going bad at all. It's going great. The numbers are performing, they're winning some deals, but let's compare to HP because I asked Mark Heard at their Oracle media event last week, cause they were touting number one in every market. So I said, "Well, there's a digital transformation "going on, a whole new way to do business "for the next 33 years, "not looking back at the past 33 years." Which metrics are you using? Everyone's claiming to be number one at something. So, the question is, maybe HP does have it right. Maybe their strategy will work. What are the, what are going to be those metrics for this next generation? If cloud becomes the connective tissue to data, value of data, and that apps are going to be very agile. Maybe this decentralized approach from HP might be a better strategy for the growth. Thoughts. >> Well, look, let's, so let's, I want to get back to the, what's good about what we're seeing and some other things that probably need to be worked on, but, but here's what I'd say, John. And this is what Wikibon believes. That customers is always going to be the most important metric. So, the first metric is, is HP gaining customers? Is HP losing customers? Is Dell gaining customers? Or is Dell losing customers? That's the number one most important metric. Always will be as far as I'm concerned. But the second one is, and this, and I'll pre-say something I'm going to talk about in a little bit. The second one is, I'll call it data under management. If we think about, if we think about this notion of data as an asset, data as a source of value, how much does HP, through it's customers, how much data does, does HP have under management? How much data does Dell/EMC have under management? And I think that's going to be an important way of thinking about the intensity of the relationships, which relationships are going to steer towards which types of environments. Is it going to be a procurement relationship or a real strategic relationship? By procurement, I mean, it's fundamentally focused on driving cost out of the deal. Strategic, I mean it's fundamentally focused by jointly creating value. So this notion of data under management, to me, is going to be something we're going to be talking about in five years. >> So, Bill Schmarzo, friend of both of ours, was, came by the set before we came on here and he's the dean of big data as coined by theCUBE but now he's takin' on it his own, like he's actually a dean now teaching big data. We are talking about some of the research that you're doing and taking a stand on, it's important, I want to put a plug in for the Wikibon research team that you're leading, is the business value of data. >> Peter: Oh absolutely. >> And that you're looking at data as a valuation mechanism, not an accounting, compliance thing. And this is something, I think, is way ahead of the curve. So props to you guys for puttin' the stake in the ground. To your point, the new metric might just be the valuation of how they use data, whether that's customer data, product services data, application development concepts to reconfiguring how they do business. >> And it's the reconfigure that's the smart, that's the absolutely right word. So, from our perspective John, the difference between a business and a digital business is a business uses data one way, a digital business uses data another way. A business uses data as an, something to just handle coordination and administration. >> Paul: Bookkeeping. >> Yeah, exactly. A digital business uses data as a strategic asset to differentiate how to engage to markets. That's where the industry's going, and that's what we want to talk about. >> And by the way, in previous business constructs or business books people have, might have read over the years certainly, you know, the Peter Druckers and so on, management consultants, never actually factored data into the value chains of-- >> Oh they did, they did, they did. They just didn't actually, so Drucker, for example did. >> John: Digital data? >> Oh, he talked about information and the role that information played. >> John: I stand corrected. >> Herbert Simon talked about this kind of stuff 50 years. Unfortunately it all got lost when we went through things like, jeez, you know, there was a very famous economist who said in the late 80s, "Information technology "shows up everywhere but in the productivity numbers." So, you old guys would-- >> I remember that, I remember that quote. >> So, the idea ultimately is we now have to get very discrete and very specific about what that means. And that's a challenge. But let's come back to, let's come back to at least what we think is really working here, if I may. >> John: Absolutely, go ahead. >> So the first thing is, at a more tactical level, number one is the Hyperconvert story is exciting. And it's starting to come together. And again, I'm not, we're not seeing tension between the folks that are selling servers and the folks that are doing Hyperconversion. Both are introducing new technology that are going to create new opportunities for customers, and they're not as, as, as your good friend Michael Dell said, a couple times over the past year, here in theCUBE, "We are not going to "artificially constrain any of our businesses." And, as Amazon said at re:Invent, "If you're going to do it at scale, "eventually you're going to put in hardware." And he wants to demonstrate that all this great software stuff that's happening, that ultimately Dell's going to be the leader at designing these new capabilities into the hardware and he wants to show how that's going to show up in all his product lines. >> That's a great point. I think the most interesting dynamic I've been seeing out of the interviews we've been doing the last two days is that the problem Dell has to struggle with now, and it'll be interesting to watch how they, how they figure this out, is all of their, used to be called the Federation, now they're called the Strategic Business Alliances I think. The, you know, the VMwares, the RSAs, the Pivotals, how are they going to make sense of those in the context of this bigger whole? On the one hand, they've got some competing priorities here. Dell has a very strong relationship with Microsoft, VMware is a competitor to Microsoft. So you got to figure out how to get those, how to make sense of those different alliances. Pivotal is potentially a competitor to Microsoft. >> Potentially? >> Well, Microsoft is in the pass business, yeah. >> No, it is yeah, it's going to compete. >> So you've got a, you've got some paradoxes here in the businesses that Dell has acquired. They really still, I sense they still haven't made sense of what they're going to do with them. >> Yeah, great point. I mean, first of all, you guys are pros and we have a historical view here of the collective intelligence of all of us old guys here. We've seen a lot of ways. But Rob Hof wrote an article on SiliconANGLE, our Editor-in-Chief Rob Hof, who's also an industry veteran and journalist himself. After the Oracle media event, and the headline reads, "In Oracle's Cloud Pitch to Enterprises, "an Echo of a Bygone Tech Era." And his point with this story is, I want to get your reaction to this, cause I think we're seeing a trend here, you guys are teasing out here. We're kind of going back down to the old tech days. You were the Editor-in-Chief of Computerworld back in the day with the mainframe world and then the minis. Seeing Marius Haas on here using words like "Single pain of glass." "One throat to choke." "End to end." We're almost seeing the bygone era coming back again where maybe they might have the rights to it. Certainly Oracle saying, "Hey, you know, "reorganize our sales force." So the question. Is the cloud the de-centralized mainframe. Is it now the new centralized, with edge, intelligent edge, is that, are we going back to the old ways, in a way, not fully but, unifying the sales forces. >> So, the computing industry-- >> Thoughts. >> Has been been on an inexorable march to greater utilization of public infrastructure. What an economist would say is we've always found ways to reduce asset specificities. I buy something, and I apply it to one purpose. I can't apply it to another purpose. Software changes that. Commodity pricing and hardware changes that. Public infrastructure changes that. So we're going to continue to see that inexorable march to the use of public infrastructure or somethin' that looks like public infrastructure. And that's going to continue. And the industry's always been very, very good at that. That does not mean, however, that we're going to have one supplier. So what we're seeing is a lot of FUD right now. Amazon FUD, Dell FUD, Oracle FUD. There is a real tension in the model and the real tension is, more than likely, the future is going to be composites of services operating on multiple different cloud-like instances, including on premise. And who's going to offer the best end-to-end control plane? >> Paul, I want to get your thoughts. Cause you remember goin' back to the days, IBM had SNA network stack, DEC had DECnet, we had, they had propietary stacks. Cloud, Azure stack, this stack, that. Are we seeing this again? Your thoughts. >> Well I think Peter's absolutely right but the variable, and you're right, we are seeing this again. We're seeing a trend of return to simplicity. Because what IT organizations have been wrestling with for the last 20 years is everything is just getting more complex. There's more vendors, there's more piece parts, and they've got to fit them all together, and it sucks. And so they want someone to simplify this. Now, cloud vendors simplify it on one level. But software-defined, on another level. We've been talking here about software defined storage, about software-defined networking, massive virtualization. And that's on an open source or at least an open API-based model. Which I think is the twist here. Are we going back to the days of IBM? Yeah. But IBM, But the IBM may actually be software-defined. >> Or five different companies that look like IBM. >> I know what you're saying Paul, and I'm not going to disagree with you. But here's the opposite-- >> But you disagree with him. >> No, no, but no I'm not going to, I'm going to put a slightly different spin on it. It used to be that the most valuable asset in an IT organization was the mainframe. And the entire organization was organized and the interactions with the business were organized and put in place to handle the value of that mainframe. We are not going back to a day where the IT organization, the way business uses IT is organized around the mainframe as an asset. Or even around the provision of infrastructure as an asset. We are going to start seeing organization and frameworks that are fundamentally built around this idea of data as an asset. And that is going to be a lot more complex with a lot more buyers and a lot more opportunities for differentiation creating value. So we will see more complexity in IT at the software and the use case level, less complexity at the infrastructure levels. >> Which is why machine learning and automation gets a lot of hype, but to Paul, I'm going to get your point and tie Peter's point together and introduce Jeff Bezos' comment last week on NDC. He mentioned that most things take 10 years to bake out in terms of getting things right. Ten year kind of horizon. Kind of an order of magnitude. But he says, "All these startups say they have "disruptive technology, it's not their technology that's "disruptive, it's what's the customer is disrupted." So we're talkin' about customers being disrupted. It's not some company having disruptive technologies. >> And disrupting. >> So are we saying that customers are being disrupted by reconfiguring their businesses, hence with the mainframe disrupted, a new way to do things, we're seeing clouded-data as a new way to do things. So, that's causing some reconfiguration and disruption, allows them to say, "Shit, just when I thought it was simple "it got more complex." >> But the disruptive element is the data as Peter says. >> I mean the machines are becoming, the machines are already a commodity. The, with open source, the platforms are a commodity. What's disruptive is how you use the data in different ways. And to your point Peter, yes, it's going to be a much more complex world. >> Peter: Much more. >> Because there's a lot more data and there's a lot more things we can do with data. >> And data can, that's exactly right. We can do so much more with data. So again, let's go back to the fundamental metric that at least I suggested. Who gets more customers? There are going to be more buyers of this stuff in five years than there are today. More buyers in the sense that within an organization, there's going to be more people involved in the decision and there's going to be more businesses. Because if this stuff actually works, the transaction costs are going to go down and you can then organize your businesses, institutionalize how you do work differently so you can have more partnerships. All that means that fundamentally, what we're talkin' about here is going to lead to greater complexity in business, greater opportunity therefore, but what I've always said, and I don't know if you've heard this Paul, but I know you have John, and I've said it on theCUBE. That the fundamental demarcation is that the first 50 years of this industry featured known process, unknown technology. And what do you we focus on? The technology. What's the next 50 years? Unknown process, known technology. What are we going to focus on? How to build that software, how to handle those data assets. What are we going to focus less attention on? The technology. What does everybody want to talk about at this show? >> The technology. >> Technology. That's a disconnect. So going to one of the things that we now have to think about from a DELL/EMC standpoint is where's the story about how Dell is going to appreciate the value of your data assets over time. We need more of that. >> And let me point out, you now, you didn't mention IBM but one company that is doing that well right now, they aren't getting the business benefit for it yet, is IBM. Where they are really taking, they are not technology, I mean they don't talk about power aid anymore. They talk about Watson, they talk about what you can do with analytics, they talk about a smarter planet. They haven't been able to turn this into a successful business yet but they're doing, I think, exactly what you're talking about. >> Well the product, they have some product challenges. I mean, so let's get back down to the customer thing. I like that angle. You got to have the customer, you got to have the products that customers will be buying. That's the value, exchange that customers will value and then hence by your service or product. Andy Jassy and Pat Gelsinger, when they did the Amazon deal, VMware. Jassy, Andy Jassy CEO of AWS said to me, "We are customer focused." So I believe that you're right on this 100%. Whoever can get the customers. And this is not about who's the better stack, if the customers like it, they're going to buy it. >> And very importantly, John, they are going to invest in it to make it valuable in their business. And that's what you want. You want to see your customers become a centerpiece of value-creation in your ecosystem. >> And I think Amazon Web Services proves that the dark horse could come out of nowhere and be the behemoth that they are because they served the customers. >> So that's the second thing that I'm missing at this show. And I know, I think I know why, is where is the additional details, even a little bit more, about VMware and AWS. Now, I know that they're going to wait for the VMware World, that's the story. >> They showed a little preview in the keynote, it's still baking out. >> Yeah, but it would be nice to have a little bit more. >> That's one of those tough relationships they need to manage, right? >> Yeah, exactly right. >> I mean VMware and IBM also have an alliance. They are allied with their foes now through the acquisition. The point about, about the value of data, you know, I think Amazon has done a good job of building platforms that are very flexible for customers to use but they abstract a lot of the underlying complexity. >> Alright, so with the data, I want to just double-down on that for a second and get your reaction, thoughts on, obviously, one of the themes here is IOT and we heard Michael Dell saying it's going to be centralized, pushed out to the edge, you got in research from Wikibon intellegent edge. You and David Floy and the rest of the team doing some real amazing work at Wikibon.com. Check it out, subscription required. What's the edge strategy? What does that actually mean for IT practitioners out there? It's, certainly we heard from Bask Iyer, who's the CIO of Dell said, "Most CIOs are conservative "and don't usually jump on these waves." They missed mobile, they missed some other waves. His mandate was, CIOs, don't miss the IOT wave. So what is the IOT, this edge of the network thing mean for a CIO. >> Well, the first thing is in hardcore circumstances, many CIOs aren't even involved in the edge. So if you take a look, if you go into where a lot of the edged domains are really crucial, you see a plant manager that's more responsible for what's going on in the edge than the CIO. The CIO is handling the corporate systems. The plant manager is handling what's actually happening at the edge. The operational technology stuff. So the first thing is we're going to see a slow circling of the IT and OT organizations about who's going to win-- >> OT meaning Operational Technology. >> Operational Technology. Just as we saw a slow circling back in the 1990s when TCPIP came in, and blew away DEC and blew away everybody, and started blowing away the TELECOM divisions, or TELECOM's functions within side large enterprises. >> So you think that IOT is going to be as disruptive as TCPIP was in standardizing in the network layer. >> Oh absolutely, absolutely. It's going to be, it's going to have an enormous impact because there's so many new sources. The data is going to have, how to think about it, and that was the second point I was going to make, John, is we do not currently have architectural standards in place for thinking about how this stuff is going to come together. And it's something that David Furrier and I and the Wikibon team are working on and I hope to come up with, I hope to come out with some research, actually probably next month, on what we call automation zones or data zones or probably edge zones. Which is, how do, just we think about security zones today, how do we think about edge zones. Where the edge zone is defined by a moment, an automation moment, cannot have data outside of that zone. And that needs to become an architectural principle where OT and IT can work together and say, "What data has to be in that zone? "I'll make sure my data gets there, "you make sure you're data gets there. "We'll figure out how control happens, "and that's how we drive this thing forward." >> Well, just to give you a prop here on theCUBE here is, Wikibon was right about Flash, they were right about Hyperconvergence and convergent infrastructure. Big bets early on that were kind of like, people were like, "What?" And certainly Vstand, ServiceStand although some people will disagree with this. >> They were right about the edge. >> Now you're right about, I think you're right on, way right on the edge and you're way right on value of data. >> Yeah. >> I think those are two stands that you're taking that will be-- >> And let's give great props to David Furrier who was a catalyst for thinking many of these things through. >> Alright Paul, final word from you. Obviously, you know, as a veteran, you've covered it all. Okay, what's your take? I mean, what's the, how's the wind blowing, what's your instinct tell you of what's happening. >> I think it's generally good, but it's hard to tell from conferences. As you know John, the reason most conferences are so boring is that there's no tension, there's no conflict. It's all good, it's all everybody's happy and everybody's doin' a great job. That's the very same thing that we're seeing here. >> Rah rah, Kool-aid injection. >> One thing I can't help notice is on the keynote, if you look at the keynote agenda for the three days, there's not a single customer on the, on the keynote agenda. Which I think is a problem. Or I don't think that says good things about where Dell is really focusing it's message right now. You want to have, at most big company conferences, there's lots and lots of customers who come up on stage. I think Dell is still thinking about, I mean it's a technology-focused company. They're thinking about technology integration right now. >> So speeds and feeds. >> Yeah, you hear a lot of speeds and feeds. >> Everybody wants to be the most important thing in the enterprise, and they still want hardware to be the most important thing. >> Well, I think I mean, I would agree with you 100%, but I just think, just, in this acquisition, I mean, sorry, merger of equals, they have a lot of herding cats going on right now. There's a lot of herding of portfolio and not a lot of overlap but I can see them kind of making room on the stage for that. But I do agree, I mean, customers do tell the best story. >> And in the long run, that's, as Peter said, that is what is going to make the difference. Are the customers happy? >> Guys, amazing exchange. Thanks so much, Peter, for comin' out and takin' some time out of your busy schedule to come on theCUBE and share your insight. The daily on-cue Paul, as always, we're havin' another three days. Third day of our three days of coverage here on theCUBE. Great commentary, great analysis, more live coverage from day three of Dell/EMC World 2017. We'll be right back, stay with us, we'll be right back after this short break.