>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by the M wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. I'm Stew Minuteman here with John Troyer. We're have three days, Walter Wall coverage here at VM World 2019 with lobbying Mosconi North and happy to welcome to the program. To my right is Tom Burns, who is the senior vice president general manager of networking and Solutions at Delhi Emcee and sitting to his right. Another Tom. We have Tom Gillis, who's the S V p and general manager of networking of Security inside VM wear. So I'm super excited. Go back to my roots of networking. Tom and Tom thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. Thanks for All >> right. So, you know, Tom, you and I have talked for years now about you know, it was not just s t n, but you know, the changes in the environment. Of course, you know, networking and compute, you know, smashing together and where the role of software in this whole environment has changed. So, you know, let's start, you know, there's some news. Let's get that cover the hard news first. VM Where has the networking pieces? Dell has some software networking pieces also, and there's some more co mingling of those. So maybe walk us through that. >> Absolutely. I think the story this week is about the collaboration that's happening between Tom's team and my team in kind of innovating and disrupting in the traditional networking world. You know, Tom Sad NSX around micro segmentation network virtualization lot going on with analytics and capability to really see what's going on. The network from Cord Out EJ to cloud the acquisition of RV, which is outstanding. Other things that are going on in Vienna, where deli emcee disrupting around the segregation of hardware and software, giving customers that capability to run the nasty need for the connective ity they need, depending upon where the network is sitting. So this week we got two announcements. One is we've got worldwide shipment of the Delhi M CST Land solutions powered by being more great, you know better than none. Software combined with better than none. Hardware coming from del you see, on a global basis worldwide, you know, secure supply chain plus professional service worldwide is a parameter there, right? >> And Tom, maybe bring us in. You know, we'd watch Fellow Cloud before the acquisition esti weigh on. You know, there's a lot of solutions that fit in a couple of different markets. It's not a homogeneous market there. Maybe give us just kind of the camp point from Avella Clubs. Esty Esty. >> Wind is a white Hart market on because it has the classic combination a better, faster, cheaper. It delivers a better end user experience. It is so easy to deploy this and it saves money, NPLs, circuits and back hauling traffic those that was, ah, 19 nineties idea. It was a good idea back then, but it's time for a different approach. >> And just when I've talked to some customers and talk to them about their multi cloud environment, SD Wind, one of those enabling technologies that you know they will bring up to a mad allowed them to actually do that. >> It was it was the movement really >> office 3 65 and sass applications that drove the best human revolution and that back hauling all this traffic to headquarters and then going out to office for 65 when a user might be in, You know, Des Moines, that doesn't make any sense. And so so with us, the win we intelligently route the traffic where it needs to go delivers a better end user experience, and it saves a bunch of money. It's not hard to imagine that cheap broadband links are on order of magnitude lower than these dedicated mpls circuits. And the interesting math is that you could take two or three low cost links and deliver a better experience than with a single dedicated circuit. >> I'm kind of interested in the balance between hardware and software, right? The family trees of networking and compute kind of were different because if they had specialized needs in silicon, so where are we now? It's 2019. Where are we now? With with line speeds and X 86 then the hardware story. >> I think it'll let Tom join the discussion around speeds and feeds is not dead, but it should be dying to get a quick right. You know, it's around virtual network functions and everything really moving to the software layer. Sitting on top of commoditized X 86 based you know, hardware and the combination of these two factors help our customers a lot more with flexibility, agility, time to deploy, return on investment, all these types of things. But I mean, that's my view is a recurring theme you're gonna hear. Is that in networking? And think you're alluding to this You needed these dedicated kind of magical black boxes that had custom hardware in order to do some pretty basic processing. Whether it be switching, routing, advanced security, you had to run things like, you know, hardware. Regular expression, matching et cetera was about three years ago that Intel introduced a technology called D P D. K, which is an acceleration that allowed VM wear to deliver in software on a single CPU. You know, we could push traffic at line rates, and so so or, you know, faster than one rates. And so that was sort of like there wasn't the champagne didn't go off in the, you know, the bald in drop in Times Square. But it's a really important milestone because all of a sudden it doesn't make any sense to build these dedicated black boxes with custom hardware. Now, general purpose hardware, when you have a global supply chain and logistics partner like Dell, coupled with distributed software, can not only replace these network functions, but we can do things completely differently. And that's really you know, we're just beginning this journey because it's only recently that we've been able to do that. But I think you're gonna see a lot more that in the future. >> So we talked about SD win. Uh, there was a second announcement >> that goes back into the court. You know, the creation of a fabric inside of the data center is still a bit difficult. I mean, I've heard quotes saying It's something like 120 lines of cli, you know, per switch. So let's say 4 to 6 Leafs pitches, switches and two spine switches could take days to set up a fabric. What we've announced is the smart Fabric Director, which is a joint collaboration and development between Veum Wear and Delhi emcee that creates this capability to tightly integrate NSX envy Center into the deli emcee power switch, family of data center switches, really eliminating several cases and in fact, setting up that same fabric in less than two minutes. And we're really happy about not just the initial release. But Tom and I have a lot of plans for this particular product and in the road map for, you know, quarters and years to come about really simplifying again, the network automating it. And then, really, our version of intent based networking is the networking operating the way you configured it, you know, when you set it up and I think not just not just on day one, but two, you know and a N and you know you hit the nail on the head. Networking has changed, is no longer about speeds and feeds. It's about availability and simplicity. And so, you know, Del and GM, where I think are uniquely positions to deliver a level of automation where this stuff just works, right? I don't need to go and configure these magic boxes individually. I want to just right, you know, a line of code where my infrastructure is built into the C I. C. D pipeline. And then when I deploy workload, it just works. I don't need an army of people to go figure that out right, and and I think that's the power of what we're working together to unleash. >> So when something technology comes up like like SD win. Sometimes there's a lot of confusion in the marketplace. Vendors going out one size fits all. This will do everything Course. Where are we in the development of SD win and what is the solution? Who should be looking at taking a look at the solution now? >> SD win market, as I said, is growing depend on whose estimate you look at between 50 and 100% a year. And the reason is better, faster, cheaper. Right? So everyone has figured out, you know, like maybe it's timeto think differently about about architecture and save some money. Eso we just announced it on the PM or side, an important milestone. We have more than 13,000 network virtualization customers that includes our data center as well as yesterday, and we don't report them separately. But 13,000 is, you know, that's almost double where it was a year ago. So significant customer growth we also announced were deployed together with our partner from Del 130,000 branches around the world. So by many metrics, I think of'em, where is the number one vendor in this space to your point it is a crowded, noisy space. Everybody's throwing their hat in the Rangel. >> We do it too. >> But I think the thing that is driving the adoption and the sales of our product is that when you put this thing in, it fundamentally changes the experience for the end user. There's not a lot of networking products that do that. Like I meet customers like this thing is magic. You plug it in and all this and streaming just works, you know, like Google hangouts or Web X is like they just work and they worked seamlessly all the time that there's something there that I think it's still unique to the PM or product, and I think it's gonna continue to drive sales in the future. So I think the other strong differentiation when it comes to Del Technologies bm where in Delhi emcee combined is we have this vision around the cloud. You know, EJ core cloud and you know this hybrid multi cloud approach. And obviously SD Ram plays a critical part as one of the stepping stones as relates toe, you know, creating the environment for this multi cloud environment. So, you know, fantastic market opportunity huge growth. As Tom said, markets probably doubling in size each year. I don't know what the damn numbers are. I hate to quote, but you know, we really feel is, though now having this product in this capability inside a deli emcee, again combining our two assets, it could be the next VX rail. We're really good way. Believe the esteem and it's gonna be a gigantic market. And I think that what's interesting about our partnership is that we can reach different segments of the market in a V M, where we tend to focus on the very high end, large enterprise customers. Technically very sophisticated, delicate, rich customers we don't even know we don't even talk to, And a product is simple enough that it works in all segments. We win the very, very biggest, and we win these. You know, smaller accounts where the simplicity of a one quick deployment really really matters. >> Tom. One of the things that excited me a year ago at this show was the networking vision for a multi cloud world reminded to be of nice syrup. React. You know, when we look at networking today, most remote network admin a lot of the network they need to manage. They don't touch the gear. They don't know where it lives, but they're still responsible. Keep it up and running. And if something goes wrong, it's there. It is the update as to where we stand with that where your >> customers are asking the question, right? So our mantra is infrastructure is code, and so no one should ever have to log in with switch. No one should have to look into a Q. And you know, we should have to be like trying to move packets from here. They're just It's very, very difficult. I'm not really feasible. And so So as networking becomes software and those general purpose processors I talk about are giving us the ability to to think about not just a configuration of the network but the operation of the network in ways that were never before possible. So, for example, we announce that the show today with our monitoring product ve realise network in sight. We call it Bernie, not always such clever with the names that were really good at writing code, Vernon gives us the ability to measure application response time from the data center all the way out to the edge. So a single pane of glass we can show you. Oh, here's where it's broken whether it's in the network, whether it's in the server, whether it's the database, that's that's not responding. And we do this all without agents, right? So it's like when the infrastructure gets smart enough to be able to provide that inside, it changes the way the customer operates on. That translates into real savings and real adoption. And that's what's driving all of this momentum, right? That 7 500 to more than 13,000 customers, something has to be behind that. I think it's It's the simplicity of automation. >> CLI has come up a couple times here, and so that's kind of a dirty word. Maybe even these days, it kind of depends on who you're talking with, I think Veum Way. Rendell both spent a lot of time and effort educating the networking engineering market and also educating the kind of data center you know, the rest of the data center crew about, you know, about each other's worlds. Where again, where are we at now? It sounds like with director on with the innocent. The NSX whole stack? Yes. Uh, the role is changing of a network engineer. But again, where are we in that? In that evolution? >> I think you know, we're early on, but it's moving quite rapidly. I think the traditional network in engineer and networking admin is gonna need to evolve. You know more to this, Dev Ops. How do I bring applications? How do I manage the infrastructure? More like a platform. I mean, Tom and I truly believe that the difference between cute and network infrastructure is really going to start to dissolve over time. And why shouldn't it? I mean, based upon what's happening with the commoditization and speeds of the CPU versus the MP use coming from Mersin silicon, it's really beginning to blur. So I think, you >> know, we're in the early >> stages. I mean, certainly from a deli, see perspective. We still, at times, you know, have those discussions and challenges with traditional networking people. But let's face it, they have a tough job. When something's not working, the network administrator usually gets blamed, And so I think it's a journey, uh, and things such as the del Technology Cloud Open networking, NSX, and now SD when it will continue to drive that. And I think we're going to see a rapid change in networking over the next 12 18 to 24 months. I talked to a number of customers that has said, You know, this journey that Tom was talking about is this is a challenge because the skill set is different. My developers need to learn software, and so what? We're working with the M where is trying t o make that software easier and easier to use it actually approach like English language. So latest versions of NSX have these very simple, declarative AP eyes that you can say, Oh, server A talk to server be but not server see, Click Don Deploy. And now, in our partnership with L, we can take that Paulson push it right down into the metal, right down into the silicon. And so so. Simplification and automation are the name of the game, but it is definitely a fundamental change in the skill set necessary to do Networking. Networking is becoming more like software as opposed to, you know, speeds and feeds and packet sniffers and more the old traditional approaches. >> Tom, I don't want to give you the final word as to Ah, you know what people should be taken away from Dell in and Veum wear in the networking space. Well, >> I think across deli emcee and in being work, there's a great amount of collaboration, whether it's the Del Technology Cloud with of'em were really taking the leadership from from that perspective with this multi hybrid cloud. But in the area of networking, you know, Trudeau. Five years ago, when we announced the desegregation of hardware and software, I am in this to disrupt a networking business and to make networking very different tomorrow and in the future than it has been in the past for our customers around. He's deployment, automation and management, and I think that's a shared vision with Tom and his team and the rest of BM, where >> Tom Gillis, Tom Burns, thank you so much faster. Having eight, we'll be back with more coverage here from VM 2019 for John Troyer on stew. Minutemen as always. Thanks for watching the Cube

>> Hi, I'm Peter Burroughs Wellcome to wicked bon action >> item from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto, California So today we've got a great conversation, and what we're going to be talking about is hybrid cloud hybrid. Claude's been in the news a lot lately. Largest consequences from changes made by a Ws is they announced Outpost and acknowledged for the first time that there's going to be a greater distribution of data on a greater distribution of function as enterprise has moved to the cloud. We've been on top of this for quite some time, and it actually coined what we call true hybrid cloud, which is the idea that increasingly, we're going to see a need for a common set of capabilities and services in multiple locations so that the cloud could move to the data and not the data automatically being presumed to move to the cloud. >> Now to have that >> conversation and to reveal some new research on what the cost in value propositions of the different options are available. Today. We've >> got David Foyer. David. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you. So, David, let's start. When we talk about Hybrid Cloud, we're seeing a continuum of different options start to emerge. What are the defining characteristics? >> Yes, we're seeing it could continue him emerging. We have what we've called standalone off course. That one is end of the spectrum on DH. There we have multi cloud, and then we have loosely and tightly coupled, and then we have true and as you go up the spectrum. So the dependence upon data depends on the data plane dependence upon low latent see dependance on writing does a systems of record records. All of those increase as we going from from lonely for High Leighton Sea and High Band with all way up to low late. >> So let me see if I got this right. It's true. I've a cloud is at one end and true. Either cloud is low late and see right on into workloads simplest possible administration. That means we're typically goingto have a common stack in all locations. Next to that is this notion of tightly coupled hybrid cloud, which could be higher late. And see, right oriented could probably has a common set of software on all no common mental state. And then, kind of this. This notion of loosely coupled right multi or hybrid cloud, which is low, high late and see, write or read oriented, which may have just a P I level coordination and commonality and all >> that's right. And then you go down even further to just multi cloud, where you're just connecting things, and each of them is independent off each other. >> So if I'm a CEO and I'm looking at a move to a cloud, I have to think about Greenfield applications and the natural distribution of data for those Greenfield applications. And that's going to help me choose which class of hybrid clawed him and he used. But let's talk about the more challenging from a set of scenarios for most CEOs, which is the existing legacy applications as I cry that Rangel yeah, systems of record. As I try to bring those those cloud like experience to those applications, how am I going through that thought process? >> So we have some choices. The choices are I could move it up to lift and shift up to on a one of the clouds by the large clouds, many of them around. And what if I if I do that what I'm need to be looking at is, what is the cost of moving that data? And what is the cost of pushing that up into the cloud and lost the conversion cast if I need to move to another database, >> and I think that's the biggest one. So it just costs of moving the data, which is just uninterested. It's a cost of format changes at our migration and all the other out conversion changes. >> So what I did in my research was focus on systems of record, the the highly expensive, very, very important systems of record, which obviously are fed by a lot of other things their systems, the engagement analytics, etcetera. But those systems of record have to work. They you need to know if you've taken on order, you need to have consistency about that order. You need to know always that you can recover any data you need in your financials, etcetera. All of that is mission critical systems of record. Andi, that's the piece that I focused on here, and I focused on >> sort of. These are loaded and she >> low, very low, latent, right oriented, very right orientated types of applications. And I focused on the oracle because the majority ofthe systems of record run on Oracle databases on the large scale ones, at least so that's what we're we're focusing on here. So I looking at the different options for a C I O off. How they would go on DH. There are three main options open at the moment. There's there's Arkalyk Cloud Cloud, a customer, which gives thie the cloud experience. There is Microsoft as your stack, which has a a Oracle database version of it on DH outposts. But we eliminated outposts not because it's not going to be any good, but because it's not there yet, is >> you get your Razor John thing. >> That's right. So we focused on Oracle on DH as you and we focused on what was the benefit of moving from a traditional environment where you've got best of breed essentially on site to this cloud environment. >> So if we think about it, the normal way of thinking about this kind of a research is that people talk about R. A Y and historically that's been done by looking by keeping the amount of work that's performed has given constant and then looking at how the different technology components compare from a call standpoint. But a move to cloud the promise of a move to cloud is not predicated on lowering costs per se, but may have other financial considerations, of course, but it's really predicated on the notion of the cod experience, which is intended to improve business results. So we think about our lives being a numerator question. Value is the amount of work you do versus the denominator question, which is what resources are consumed to perform that work. It's not just the denominator side we really need to think about. The numerator side is well, you create. So what? What kind of things are we focused >> on? What we think about that value created his consequence of possibilities and options of the cloud. >> Right? So both are important. So so Obviously, when you move to a cloud environment, you can simplify operations. In particular, you can simplify recovery. You, Khun simplify a whole number of things within the shop and those give you extra resources on. Then the question is, Do you just cash in on those resources and say OK, I've made some changes, Or do you use those resources to improve the ability of your systems to work and one important characteristic off it alight and systems of record in particular is that you get depreciation of that asset. Over time, it becomes less fitted to the environment it has started with, so you have to do maintenance on it. You have to do maintenance and work, and as you know most means most work done in my tea shop is on the maintenance side minutes. An enhancement. It's maintenance. An enhancement, yes. So making more resources available on making it easier to do that maintenance are making less, less things that are going to interfere with that faster time to to to maintenance faster time. Two new applications or improvements is really fundamental to systems of record, so that is the value that you can bring to it. And you also bring value with lower of better availability, higher availability as well. So those are the things that we put into the model to see how the different approaches. And we were looking at really a total one. One supplier being responsible for everything, which was the Oracle environment of Oracle clouded customer to a sort of hybrid invite more hybrid environment where you had the the the work environment where you had the equipment coming from different place vendor that the service, the oracle, the as your service coming from Microsoft and, of course, the database coming then from Arkham itself. And we found from tremendous improvement in the value that you could get because of this single source. We found that a better model. >> So the common source led to efficiencies that then allowed a business to generate new classes of value. Because, as you said, you know, seventy plus percent of a night organ orb business is spending. Biology is associate with maintaining which they're enhancing. What's there in a very limited amount is focused on new greenfield or new types of applications. So if you can reduce the amount of time energy that goes into that heritage set of applications those systems of record, the not opens up that frees up resources to do some of the things >> on DH Having inflexibility now with things like As your stack conned in the future E. W. S off. Putting that resource either on premise or in the cloud, means that you can make decisions about where you process things things about where the data is about, where the data needs to be, the best placement of the data for what you're trying to do >> and that that decision is predicated on things like late in sea, but also regulatory, environment and intellectual property, controlling >> the custom moving data up and down. So the three laws of off off the cloud so having that flexibility of moving, keeping it where you want to, is a tremendous value in again in terms ofthe the speed of deployment on the speed of improved. >> So we'll get to the issues surrounding the denominator side of this. I want to come back to that numerator sites that the denominator again is the resources consumed to deliver the work to the business. But when we talk about that denominator side, know you perhaps opening up additional monies to do new types of development new times of work. But take us through some of the issues like you know what is a cloud experience associated with single vendor Faster development. Give us some of the issues that are really driving the value proposition. Look above the line. >> I mean, the whole issue about cloud is that you go on, take away all of the requirements to deal with the hardware deal with the orchestration off the storage deal with all of these things. So instead of taking weeks, months to put in extra resources, you say I want them on is there. >> So you're taking out administrate your taking administrative tasks out of the flow out of the flow, and as a consequence, things happen. Faster is the time of values. One of the first one. Give us another one. >> So obviously the ability to no I have it's a cloud environment. So if you're a vendor of that cloud, what you want to be able to do is to make incremental changes quickly, as opposed to awaiting for a new release and work on a release basis. So that fundamental speed to change speed to improve, bring in new features. Bringing new services a cloud first type model that is a very powerful way for the vendor to push out new things. And for the consumer, too, has absorbed them. >> Right? So the first one is time to value, but also it's lower cost to innovation. >> Yes, faster innovation ability to innovate. And then the third. The third most important part is if you if you re invest those resources that you've saved into new services new capabilities of doing that. To me, the most important thing long term for systems of record is to be able to make them go faster and use that extra Leighton see time there to bring in systems off systems of analytics A. I systems other systems on provide automation of individual business processes, increased automation that is gonna happen over time. That's that's a slow adding to it. But it means you can use those cloud mechanisms, those additional resources, wherever they are. You can use those to provide a clear path to improving the current systems of record. And that is a much faster and more cost effective way than going in for a conversion or moving the data upto the cloud or shifting lift and shift. For these types of acts, >> what kind of they're all kind of related? So I get, I get. I get superior innovation speeds because I'm taking new technology and faster. I get faster time to value because I'm not having to perform much of tasks, and I could get future could imbue additional types of work in support of automation without dramatically expanding the transactional wait and see on arrival rate of turns actions within the system of record. Okay, So how did Oracle and Azure with Oracle stack up in your analysis? >> So first of all, important is both a viable solutions. They both would work okay, but the impact in terms of the total business value, including obviously any savings on people and things like that, was two hundred nineteen eighty three hundred million dollars additional. This was for Robert to come in for a a Fortune two thousand customer, so it was around two billion dollars. So a lot of money over five years, a lot of money. Either way, you would save two hundred million if you were with with the zero but three hundred with the oracle, so that that to me, is far, far higher than the costs of I T. For that particular company, it's It is a strategic decision to be able to get more value out quicker. And for this class of workload on Oracle than Arkalyk, Cloud was the best decision to be absolutely fair If you were on Microsoft's database. And you wanted to go to Microsoft as you. That would be the better bet you would. You would get back a lot of those benefits, >> so stay with him. The stack, if you can't. Correct. All right, So So two billion dollars a year. Five years, ten billion dollars in revenue, roughly between two hundred million and saving for one Congress all around three. Treasure Quest. Oracle three hundred millions were one percent swing. Talk to us about speed value. What >> happens in the numerator side of that equation >> S Oh, so it is lower in caste, but you have a higher. The cast of the actual cloud is a little a little higher. So overall, the pure hardware equipment Cass is is awash is not going to change much. It might be a little bit more expensive. You make the savings a cz? Well, because of the people you less less operators, simpler environment. Those are the savings you're going to make. And then you're going to push those back into into the organization a cz increased value that could be given to the line of business. >> So the closure of the researchers If your CEO, you look at your legacy application going to be difficult to move, and you go with stack. That's best for those legacy applications. And since the vast majority of systems of record or running all scale large scale, then that means work. A cloud of customers is a superior fit for most from a lot of chances. So if you're not there, though, when you look at other options, all right, David Floy er thank you. Thanks very much for being on the Cube today, and you've been watching other wicked bon action >> item from the Cube Studios and Power Rialto, California on Peter Burke's Thanks very much for watching.