>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban Cloud brought to you by Silicon Angle. Welcome back to the live segment of the Cuban cloud. I'm Dave, along with my co host, John Ferrier. John Rose is here. He's the global C T o Dell Technologies. John, great to see you as always, Really appreciate >>it. Absolutely good to know. >>Hey, so we're gonna talk edge, you know, the the edge, it's it's estimated. It's a multi multi trillion dollar opportunity, but it's a highly fragmented, very complex. I mean, it comprises from autonomous vehicles and windmills, even retail stores outer space. And it's so it brings in a lot of really gnarly technical issues that we want to pick your brain on. Let me start with just what to you is edge. How do you think about >>it? Yeah, I think I mean, I've been saying for a while that edges the when you reconstitute Ike back out in the real world. You know, for 10 years we've been sucking it out of the real world, taking it out of factories, you know, nobody has an email server under their desk anymore. On that was because we could put it in data centers and cloud public clouds, and you know that that's been a a good journey. And then we realized, Wait a minute, all the data actually was being created out in the real world. And a lot of the actions that have to come from that data have to happen in real time in the real world. And so we realized we actually had toe reconstitute a nightie capacity out near where the data is created, consumed and utilized. And, you know, that turns out to be smart cities, smart factories. You know, uh, we're dealing with military apparatus. What you're saying, how do you put, you know, edges in tow, warfighting theaters or first responder environments? It's really anywhere that data exists that needs to be processed and understood and acted on. That isn't in a data center. So it's kind of one of these things. Defining edge is easier to find. What it isn't. It's anywhere that you're going to have. I t capacity that isn't aggregated into a public or private cloud data center. That seems to be the answer. So >>follow. Follow that. Follow the data. And so you've got these big issue, of course, is late and see people saying, Well, some applications or some use cases like autonomous vehicles. You have to make the decision locally. Others you can you can send back. And you, Kamal, is there some kind of magic algorithm the technical people used to figure out? You know what, the right approaches? Yeah, >>the good news is math still works and way spent a lot of time thinking about why you build on edge. You know, not all things belong at the edge. Let's just get that out of the way. And so we started thinking about what does belong at the edge, and it turns out there's four things you need. You know, if you have a real time responsiveness in the full closed loop of processing data, you might want to put it in an edge. But then you have to define real time, and real time varies. You know, real time might be one millisecond. It might be 30 milliseconds. It might be 50 milliseconds. It turns out that it's 50 milliseconds. You probably could do that in a co located data center pretty far away from those devices. One millisecond you better be doing it on the device itself. And so so the Leighton see around real time processing matters. And, you know, the other reasons interesting enough to do edge actually don't have to do with real time crossing they have to do with. There's so much data being created at the edge that if you just blow it all the way across the Internet, you'll overwhelm the Internets. We have need toe pre process and post process data and control the flow across the world. The third one is the I T. O T boundary that we all know. That was the I O t. Thing that we were dealing with for a long time. And the fourth, which is the fascinating one, is it's actually a place where you might want to inject your security boundaries, because security tends to be a huge problem and connected things because they're kind of dumb and kind of simple and kind of exposed. And if you protect them on the other end of the Internet, the surface area of protecting is enormous, so there's a big shift basically move security functions to the average. I think Gardner made up a term for called Sassy. You know, it's a pretty enabled edge, but these are the four big ones. We've actually tested that for probably about a year with customers. And it turns out that, you know, seems to hold If it's one of those four things you might want to think about an edge of it isn't it probably doesn't belong in >>it. John. I want to get your thoughts on that point. The security things huge. We talked about that last time at Del Tech World when we did an interview with the Cube. But now look at what's happened. Over the past few months, we've been having a lot of investigative reporting here at Silicon angle on the notion of misinformation, not just fake news. Everyone talks about that with the election, but misinformation as a vulnerability because you have now edge devices that need to be secured. But I can send misinformation to devices. So, you know, faking news could be fake data say, Hey, Tesla, drive off the road or, you know, do this on the other thing. So you gotta have the vulnerabilities looked at and it could be everything. Data is one of them. Leighton. See secure. Is there a chip on the device? Could you share your vision on how you see that being handled? Cause it's a huge >>problem. Yeah, this is this is a big deal because, you know, what you're describing is the fact that if data is everything, the flow of data ultimately turns into the flow of information that knowledge and wisdom and action. And if you pollute the data, if you could compromise it the most rudimentary levels by I don't know, putting bad data into a sensor or tricking the sensor which lots of people can dio or simulating a sensor, you can actually distort things like a I algorithms. You can introduce bias into them and then that's a That's a real problem. The solution to it isn't making the sensors smarter. There's this weird Catch 22 when you sense arise the world, you know you have ah, you know, finite amount of power and budget and the making sensors fatter and more complex is actually the wrong direction. So edges have materialized from that security dimension is an interesting augment to those connected things. And so imagine a world where you know your sensor is creating data and maybe have hundreds or thousands of sensors that air flowing into an edge compute layer and the edge compute layer isn't just aggregating it. It's putting context on it. It's metadata that it's adding to the system saying, Hey, that particular stream of telemetry came from this device, and I'm watching that device and Aiken score it and understand whether it's been compromised or whether it's trustworthy or whether it's a risky device and is that all flows into the metadata world the the overall understanding of not just the data itself, but where did it come from? Is it likely to be trustworthy? Should you score it higher or lower in your neural net to basically manipulate your algorithm? These kind of things were really sophisticated and powerful tools to protect against this kind of injection of false information at the sensor, but you could never do that at a sensor. You have to do it in a place that has more compute capacity and is more able to kind of enriched the data and enhance it. So that's why we think edges are important in that fourth characteristic of they aren't the security system of the sensor itself. But they're the way to make sure that there's integrity in the sense arised world before it reaches the Internet before it reaches the cloud data centers. >>So access to that metadata is access to the metadata is critical, and it's gonna be it's gonna be near real time, if not real time, right? >>Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the important thing is, Well, I'll tell you this. You know, if you haven't figured this out by looking at cybersecurity issues, you know, compromising from the authoritative metadata is a really good compromise. If you could get that, you can manipulate things that a scale you've never imagined. Well, in this case, if the metadata is actually authoritatively controlled by the edge note the edge note is processing is determining whether or not this is trustworthy or not. Those edge nodes are not $5 parts, their servers, their higher end systems. And you can inject a lot more sophisticated security technology and you can have hardware root of trust. You can have, you know, mawr advanced. PK I in it, you can have a I engines watching the behavior of it, and again, you'd never do that in a sensor. But if you do it at the first step into the overall data pipeline, which is really where the edges materializing, you can do much more sophisticated things to the data. But you can also protect that thing at a level that you'd never be able to do to protect a smart lightbulb. A thermostat in your house? >>Uh, yes. So give us the playbook on how you see the evolution of the this mark. I'll see these air key foundational things, a distributed network and it's a you know I o t trends into industrial i o t vice versa. As a software becomes critical, what is the programming model to build the modern applications is something that I know. You guys talk to Michael Dell about this in the Cuban, everyone, your companies as well as everyone else. Its software define everything these days, right? So what is the software framework? How did people code on this? What's the application aware viewpoint on this? >>Yeah, this is, uh, that's unfortunately it's a very complex area that's got a lot of dimensions to it. Let me let me walk you through a couple of them in terms of what is the software framework for for For the edge. The first is that we have to separate edge platforms from the actual edge workload today too many of the edge dialogues or this amorphous blob of code running on an appliance. We call that an edge, and the reality is that thing is actually doing two things. It's, ah, platform of compute out in the real world and it's some kind of extension of the cloud data pipeline of the cloud Operating model. Instance, he added, A software probably is containerized code sitting on that edge platform. Our first principle about the software world is we have to separate those two things. You do not build your cloud your edge platform co mingled with the thing that runs on it. That's like building your app into the OS. That's just dumb user space. Colonel, you keep those two things separate. We have Thio start to enforce that discipline in the software model at the edges. The first principle, the second is we have to recognize that the edges are are probably best implemented in ways that don't require a lot of human intervention. You know, humans air bad when it comes to really complex distributed systems. And so what we're finding is that most of the code being pushed into production benefits from using things like kubernetes or container orchestration or even functional frameworks like, you know, the server list fast type models because those low code architectures generally our interface with via AP, eyes through CCD pipelines without a lot of human touch on it. And it turns out that, you know, those actually worked reasonably well because the edges, when you look at them in production, the code actually doesn't change very often, they kind of do singular things relatively well over a period of time. And if you can make that a fully automated function by basically taking all of the human intervention away from it, and if you can program it through low code interfaces or through automated interfaces, you take a lot of the risk out of the human intervention piece of this type environment. We all know that you know most of the errors and conditions that break things are not because the technology fails it because it's because of human being touches it. So in the software paradigm, we're big fans of more modern software paradigms that have a lot less touch from human beings and a lot more automation being applied to the edge. The last thing I'll leave you with, though, is we do have a problem with some of the edge software architectures today because what happened early in the i o t world is people invented kind of new edge software platforms. And we were involved in these, you know, edge X foundry, mobile edge acts, a crane. Oh, and those were very important because they gave you a set of functions and capabilities of the edge that you kind of needed in the early days. Our long term vision, though for edge software, is that it really needs to be the same code base that we're using in data centers and public clouds. It needs to be the same cloud stack the same orchestration level, the same automation level, because what you're really doing at the edge is not something that spoke. You're taking a piece of your data pipeline and you're pushing it to the edge and the other pieces are living in private data centers and public clouds, and you like they all operate under the same framework. So we're big believers in, like pushing kubernetes orchestration all the way to the edge, pushing the same fast layer all the way to the edge. And don't create a bespoke world of the edge making an extension of the multi cloud software framework >>even though the underlying the underlying hardware might change the microprocessor, GPU might change GP or whatever it is. Uh, >>by the way, that that's a really good reason to use these modern framework because the energies compute where it's not always next 86 underneath it, programming down at the OS level and traditional languages has an awful lot of hardware dependencies. We need to separate that because we're gonna have a lot of arm. We're gonna have a lot of accelerators a lot of deep. Use a lot of other stuff out there. And so the software has to be modern and able to support header genius computer, which a lot of these new frameworks do quite well, John. >>Thanks. Thanks so much for for coming on, Really? Spending some time with us and you always a great guest to really appreciate it. >>Going to be a great stuff >>of a technical edge. Ongoing room. Dave, this is gonna be a great topic. It's a clubhouse room for us. Well, technical edge section every time. Really. Thanks >>again, Jon. Jon Rose. Okay, so now we're gonna We're gonna move to the second part of our of our technical edge discussion. Chris Wolf is here. He leads the advanced architecture group at VM Ware. And that really means So Chris's looks >>at I >>think it's three years out is kind of his time. Arise. And so, you know, advanced architecture, Er and yeah. So really excited to have you here. Chris, can you hear us? >>Okay. Uh, >>can Great. Right. Great to see you again. >>Great >>to see you. Thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. >>So >>we're talking about the edge you're talking about the things that you see way set it up is a multi trillion dollar opportunity. It's It's defined all over the place. Uh, Joey joke. It's Could be a windmill. You know, it could be a retail store. It could be something in outer space. Its's It's it's, you know, whatever is defined A factory, a military installation, etcetera. How do you look at the edge. And And how do you think about the technical evolution? >>Yeah, I think it is. It was interesting listening to John, and I would say we're very well aligned there. You know, we also would see the edge is really the place where data is created, processed and are consumed. And I think what's interesting here is that you have a number off challenges in that edges are different. So, like John was talking about kubernetes. And there's there's multiple different kubernetes open source projects that are trying to address thes different edge use cases, whether it's K three s or Cubbage or open your it or super edge. And I mean the list goes on and on, and the reason that you see this conflict of projects is multiple reasons. You have a platform that's not really designed to supported computing, which kubernetes is designed for data center infrastructure. Uh, first on then you have these different environments where you have some edge sites that have connectivity to the cloud, and you have some websites that just simply don't write whether it's an oil rig or a cruise ship. You have all these different use cases, so What we're seeing is you can't just say this is our edge platform and, you know, go consume it because it won't work. You actually have to have multiple flavors of your edge platform and decide. You know what? You should time first. From a market perspective, I >>was gonna ask you great to have you on. We've had many chest on the Cube during when we actually would go to events and be on the credit. But we appreciate you coming into our virtual editorial event will be doing more of these things is our software will be put in the work to do kind of a clubhouse model. We get these talks going and make them really valuable. But this one is important because one of the things that's come up all day and we kind of introduced earlier to come back every time is the standardization openness of how open source is going to extend out this this interoperability kind of vibe. And then the second theme is and we were kind of like the U S side stack come throwback to the old days. Uh, talk about Cooper days is that next layer, but then also what is going to be the programming model for modern applications? Okay, with the edge being obviously a key part of it. What's your take on that vision? Because that's a complex area certain a lot of a lot of software to be written, still to come, some stuff that need to be written today as well. So what's your view on How do you programs on the edge? >>Yeah, it's a It's a great question, John and I would say, with Cove it We have seen some examples of organizations that have been successful when they had already built an edge for the expectation of change. So when you have a truly software to find edge, you can make some of these rapid pivots quite quickly, you know. Example was Vanderbilt University had to put 1000 hospital beds in a parking garage, and they needed dynamic network and security to be able to accommodate that. You know, we had a lab testing company that had to roll out 400 testing sites in a matter of weeks. So when you can start tohave first and foremost, think about the edge as being our edge. Agility is being defined as you know, what is the speed of software? How quickly can I push updates? How quickly can I transform my application posture or my security posture in lieu of these types of events is super important. Now, if then if we walk that back, you know, to your point on open source, you know, we see open source is really, uh you know, the key enabler for driving edge innovation and driving in I S V ecosystem around that edge Innovation. You know, we mentioned kubernetes, but there's other really important projects that we're already seeing strong traction in the edge. You know, projects such as edge X foundry is seeing significant growth in China. That is, the core ejects foundry was about giving you ah, pass for some of your I o T aps and services. Another one that's quite interesting is the open source faith project in the Linux Foundation. And fate is really addressing a melody edge through a Federated M L model, which we think is the going to be the long term dominant model for localized machine learning training as we continue to see massive scale out to these edge sites, >>right? So I wonder if you could You could pick up on that. I mean, in in thinking about ai influencing at the edge. Um, how do you see that? That evolving? Uh, maybe You know what, Z? Maybe you could We could double click on the architecture that you guys see. Uh, progressing. >>Yeah, Yeah. Right now we're doing some really good work. A zai mentioned with the Fate project. We're one of the key contributors to the project. Today. We see that you need to expand the breath of contributors to these types of projects. For starters, uh, some of these, what we've seen is sometimes the early momentum starts in China because there is a lot of innovation associated with the edge there, and now it starts to be pulled a bit further West. So when you look at Federated Learning, we do believe that the emergence of five g I's not doesn't really help you to centralized data. It really creates the more opportunity to create, put more data and more places. So that's, you know, that's the first challenge that you have. But then when you look at Federated learning in general, I'd say there's two challenges that we still have to overcome organizations that have very sophisticated data. Science practices are really well versed here, and I'd say they're at the forefront of some of these innovations. But that's 1% of enterprises today. We have to start looking at about solutions for the 99% of enterprises. And I'd say even VM Ware partners such as Microsoft Azure Cognitive Services as an example. They've been addressing ML for the 99%. I say That's a That's a positive development. When you look in the open source community, it's one thing to build a platform, right? Look, we love to talk about platforms. That's the easy part. But it's the APS that run on that platform in the services that run on that platform that drive adoption. So the work that we're incubating in the VM, or CTO office is not just about building platforms, but it's about building the applications that are needed by say that 99% of enterprises to drive that adoption. >>So if you if you carry that through that, I infer from that Chris that the developers are ultimately gonna kind of win the edge or define the edge Um, How do you see that From their >>perspective? Yeah, >>I think its way. I like to look at this. I like to call a pragmatic Dev ops where the winning formula is actually giving the developer the core services that they need using the native tools and the native AP eyes that they prefer and that is predominantly open source. It would some cloud services as they start to come to the edge as well. But then, beyond that, there's no reason that I t operations can't have the tools that they prefer to use. A swell. So we see this coming together of two worlds where I t operations has to think even for differently about edge computing, where it's not enough to assume that I t has full control of all of these different devices and sensors and things that exists at the edge. It doesn't happen. Often times it's the lines of business that air directly. Deploying these types of infrastructure solutions or application services is a better phrase and connecting them to the networks at the edge. So what does this mean From a nightie operations perspective? We need tohave, dynamic discovery capabilities and more policy and automation that can allow the developers to have the velocity they want but still have that consistency of security, agility, networking and all of the other hard stuff that somebody has to solve. And you can have the best of both worlds here. >>So if Amazon turned the data center into an A P I and then the traditional, you know, vendors sort of caught up or catching up and trying to do in the same premise is the edge one big happy I Is it coming from the cloud? Is it coming from the on Prem World? How do you see that evolving? >>Yes, that's the question and races on. Yeah, but it doesn't. It doesn't have to be exclusive in one way or another. The VM Ware perspective is that, you know, we can have a consistent platform for open source, a consistent platform for cloud services. And I think the key here is this. If you look at the partnerships we've been driving, you know, we've on boarded Amazon rds onto our platform. We announced the tech preview of Azure Arc sequel database as a service on our platform as well. In addition, toe everything we're doing with open source. So the way that we're looking at this is you don't wanna make a bet on an edge appliance with one cloud provider. Because what happens if you have a business partner that says I am a line to Google or on the line to AWS? So I want to use this open source. Our philosophy is to virtualized the edge so that software can dictate, you know, organizations velocity at the end of the day. >>Yeah. So, Chris, you come on, you're you're an analyst at Gartner. You know us. Everything is a zero sum game, but it's but But life is not like that, right? I mean, there's so much of an incremental opportunity, especially at the edge. I mean, the numbers are mind boggling when when you look at it, >>I I agree wholeheartedly. And I think you're seeing a maturity in the vendor landscape to where we know we can't solve all the problems ourselves and nobody can. So we have to partner, and we have to to your earlier point on a P. I s. We have to build external interfaces in tow, our platforms to make it very easy for customers have choice around ice vendors, partners and so on. >>So, Chris, I gotta ask you since you run the advanced technology group in charge of what's going on there, will there be a ship and focus on mawr ships at the edge with that girl singer going over to intel? Um, good to see Oh, shit, so to speak. Um, all kidding aside, but, you know, patch leaving big news around bm where I saw some of your tweets and you laid out there was a nice tribute, pat, but that's gonna be cool. That's gonna be a didn't tell. Maybe it's more more advanced stuff there. >>Yeah, I think >>for people pats staying on the VMRO board and to me it's it's really think about it. I mean, Pat was part of the team that brought us the X 86 right and to come back to Intel as the CEO. It's really the perfect book end to his career. So we're really sad to see him go. Can't blame him. Of course it's it's a It's a nice chapter for Pat, so totally understand that. And we prior to pack going to Intel, we announced major partnerships within video last year, where we've been doing a lot of work with >>arm. So >>thio us again. We see all of this is opportunity, and a lot of the advanced development projects were running right now in the CTO office is about expanding that ecosystem in terms of how vendors can participate, whether you're running an application on arm, whether it's running on X 86 or whatever, it's running on what comes next, including a variety of hardware accelerators. >>So is it really? Is that really irrelevant to you? I mean, you heard John Rose talk about that because it's all containerized is it is. It is a technologies. Is it truly irrelevant? What processor is underneath? And what underlying hardware architectures there are? >>No, it's not. You know it's funny, right? Because we always want to say these things like, Well, it's just a commodity, but it's not. You didn't then be asking the hardware vendors Thio pack up their balls and go home because there's just nothing nothing left to do, and we're seeing actually quite the opposite where there's this emergence and variety of so many hardware accelerators. So even from an innovation perspective, for us. We're looking at ways to increase the velocity by which organizations can take advantage of these different specialized hardware components, because that's that's going to continue to be a race. But the real key is to make it seamless that an application could take advantage of these benefits without having to go out and buy all of this different hardware on a per application basis. >>But if you do make bets, you can optimize for that architecture, true or not, I mean, our estimate is that the you know the number of wafer is coming out of arm based, you know, platforms is 10 x x 86. And so it appears that, you know, from a cost standpoint, that's that's got some real hard decisions to make. Or maybe maybe they're easy decisions, I don't know. But so you have to make bets, Do you not as a technologist and try to optimize for one of those architectures, even though you have to hedge those bets? >>Yeah, >>we do. It really boils down to use cases and seeing, you know, what do you need for a particular use case like, you know, you mentioned arm, you know, There's a lot of arm out at the edge and on smaller form factor devices. Not so much in the traditional enterprise data center today. So our bets and a lot of the focus there has been on those types of devices. And again, it's it's really the It's about timing, right? The customer demand versus when we need to make a particular move from an innovation >>perspective. It's my final question for you as we wrap up our day here with Great Cuban Cloud Day. What is the most important stories in in the cloud tech world, edge and or cloud? And you think people should be paying attention to that will matter most of them over the next few years. >>Wow, that's a huge question. How much time do we have? Not not enough. A >>architect. Architectural things. They gotta focus on a lot of people looking at this cove it saying I got to come out with a growth strategy obvious and clear, obvious things to see Cloud >>Yeah, yeah, let me let me break it down this way. I think the most important thing that people have to focus on >>is deciding How >>do they when they build architectures. What does the reliance on cloud services Native Cloud Services so far more proprietary services versus open source technologies such as kubernetes and the SV ecosystem around kubernetes. You know, one is an investment in flexibility and control, lots of management and for your intellectual property, right where Maybe I'm building this application in the cloud today. But tomorrow I have to run it out at the edge. Or I do an acquisition that I just wasn't expecting, or I just simply don't know. Sure way. Sure hope that cova doesn't come around again or something like it, right as we get past this and navigate this today. But architect ng for the expectation of change is really important and having flexibility of round your intellectual property, including flexibility to be able to deploy and run on different clouds, especially as you build up your different partnerships. That's really key. So building a discipline to say you know what >>this is >>database as a service, it's never going to define who I am is a business. It's something I have to do is an I T organization. I'm consuming that from the cloud This part of the application sacked that defines who I am is a business. My active team is building this with kubernetes. And I'm gonna maintain more flexibility around that intellectual property. The strategic discipline to operate this way among many of >>enterprise customers >>just hasn't gotten there yet. But I think that's going to be a key inflection point as we start to see. You know, these hybrid architectures continue to mature. >>Hey, Chris. Great stuff, man. Really appreciate you coming on the cube and participate in the Cuban cloud. Thank you for your perspectives. >>Great. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure >>to see you. >>Thank you, everybody for watching this ends the Cuban Cloud Day. Volonte and John Furry. All these sessions gonna be available on demand. All the write ups will hit silicon angle calm. So check that out. We'll have links to this site up there and really appreciate you know, you attending our our first virtual editorial >>event again? >>There's day Volonte for John Ferrier in the entire Cube and Cuba and Cloud Team >>Q 3 65. Thanks >>for watching. Mhm

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World digital experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. Hey, Welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Cube. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of Dell Technology. World 2020. The digital experience, Uh, not in person like nothing this year, 2020. But the digital experience allows to do a lot of things that you couldn't do in person. And we're excited to have our next guest. He is Deepak Prasad, the director of product management for Dell Technologies. Cloud deep. Uh, great to see you. >>Hello, Jeff. Nice to meet you as well. >>You too. So let's let's back up, like, 10,000 square feet, cause you know, Cloud came in with a big giant rage. I guess it's been a while now with AWS and Public Cloud. And people are putting their depth tests on there. And, you know, we've seen this explosion of public cloud, and then we have hybrid cloud and multi cloud. And then, you know, basically people figured out that not everything can go to a public cloud. A lot of stuff. Shouldn't some stuffs gonna stay in data centers? for all different reasons, >>but >>basically it's horses for courses. So we're a little ways into this. How are you guys, Adele, really thinking about Cloud and helping your customers think about what cloud is beyond, you know, kind of the hype. >>Well, that's a great question, Jeff. At Dell, we think of Cloud really as an operating model and as an operating experience rather than a destination. So it's interesting that you bring up Public Cloud and Private Cloud, but we take a step back and think of what does that experience really represent? So if you think off, uh, you know what defines that cloud operating model? It's, ah, democratization of technology. Access off resource is through a p. I s through self service portals ability to pay as you go in a very simplified commerce experience and the agility of cloud. You know, the promise off instant availability of infinite scalability. Now, if if you look at you know the landscape around this until now, that has only been delivered in a consistent way by public cloud vendors, which leads people to believe that really cloud is the destination, not an operating model. But we think that we are capable of bringing those experiences those tenets off the cloud operating model to the on premises experience and really taking location out of the conversation. So this really allows our customers to focus mawr on their workloads than visions. They want to drive, and then they can fit there, uh, requirements their application requirements to the location where those resource is our regardless of having toe worry about it. This is public or private. They will get the same operating experience. They will get the same scalability, the same simplified commerce, the same access Thio resource is >>right. Well, let's talk about some of some of those things because, as you said, there's a lot of behaviors that are involved in cloud and cloud operating. You know, one of the behaviors that I think gave the public cloud an early leg up was just simply provisioning, right? Simply, if somebody needs some capacity, they need some horsepower to get interesting. It would be tested in the early days. No, they didn't have to provision. They didn't have to put in an order with I t and wait for so long to get a box assigned to them or purchased or whatever, right? They just swipe the credit card and went, How have you kind of help People have that kind of ease of use ease of, uh, he's of spin up piece of creation on what the right verb is because I think that's a really core piece of what enabled early cloud adoption. >>No, absolutely, you're spot on. And that was a big part of it that if somebody needed resource is instead of waiting for weeks and months, they could go on and and sign up for those resource and get almost instantaneous access. And we believe that what we're doing in this area is really transforming the business. Today. We can deliver resource is to customers in their data center in 14 days and really are aggressively looking to cut that down further. So what this really means is not just shipping Resource is in 14 days, but actually delivering a cloud experience in the customer's data center or of cola location, whatever, you know, location of their choice in 14 days and making that available to the customers, not just through the traditional procurement process. But we're actually very proud to announce the cloud Council, the Dell Technologies Cloud Council, through which customers can, in a self service way, order those ordered those resource is and have it show up and be operational in their environment in 14 days. So we're really bringing that speed of cloud to the on premise experience, >>right? So how how does it actually work? Do you pre? Do you pre ship some amount of capacity beyond what you believe is currently needed just to kind of forward que you will, if you will capacity. How does it work from from both the implementation strategy in terms of the actual compute and storage capacity, as well as on kind of the purchasing peace? Because those air to kind of very >>different work flows? No, that's a That's a great question. So for us, our strength are really in supply chain management that allows us to build capabilities across the world in areas from where we can ship the customers almost on the on demand basis. So as soon as we get in order that the customer needs a probably probably cloud deployment in a certain location, were able to mobilize those resource is from those locations and have it instance she hated in customers environ. So it's really built a strength off over the years off optimizing supply chain, if you will, and just bring taking that to the next level off. >>Okay, so we don't, >>uh environment we said. Yeah, >>no problem. I was gonna say the another great characteristics of cloud right is is spinning up, which we hear about all the time versus spinning down and write. The easiest example is always use. If you're running, you know, some promotion. If your pizza hut you're running a promotion for the Super Bowl, obviously, right? Your demand for that thing is gonna be huge. You want to spin up to be able to take advantage of all the people cash in their coupon, and then when the Super Bowls over, >>you >>want to spend those resource is down because you're not going to necessarily need that capacity. How do you guys accomplish that type of flexibility in your solution? >>So in our subscription model, we have different ways to address customer environment. So we allow customers to start very small and then and then grow the subscription as the requirements growth and the key thing of our subscription, which is really unique, is the ability to quote Terminate. So, for example, if if a customer started off on the three year subscription with the, uh resource is for, say, 100 virtual machines and somewhere along the way they needed to add resource is for 50 more virtual machines, so they will pay for the 150 virtual machines. But that extra 50 virtual machines does not create an orphan or a child subscription. At the end of three years, everything terminates together, so it really gives them flexibility with, you know, ability to start small and not have to worry about vendor lock in. And now we started off with sort of a reserved instance type off subscription model. But we're definitely bringing usage based models as well, which allows more, even more flexibility with respect to speeding up and speeding down. Right. >>And then what are some of the real specific reasons that people go for this type of solution versus a public cloud where some of the rial inherent advantages of doing this within my own infrastructure, my own data center, my own, you know, kind of virtual four walls, if you will. >>Yeah, you know, we strongly believe that the decision should really be guided by workload requirements. There's certain workloads that work really well in on premises environment. For example, you could take virtual desktop environments V. D. I. That works really well from a performance standpoint in In on premise, environment versus a public cloud environment. Similarly, there are other workloads were not public cloud deniers that that are best suited for public cloud. But it's really it should be something that's that comes from understanding your application. Understanding the leighton see requirements, understanding the data requirements for those applications. You know, what are your egress? Uh, issues. Or, you know, uh, the profile off the workload that you're trying to implement That should really be the driving force in where the workload this place >>and then, uh, tell us a little bit about the partnership with VM Ware because that's a huge asset that you have, you know, now you know, basically side by side and you can leverage the technology as well as a lot of the assets that are envy. And where how does that change? The way you guys have taken the Dell Cloud platform to market >>it really is a a differentiating factor for us. From a technology standpoint, it allows us to bring the best of both worlds best off off the hardware infrastructure as well as the best off the cloud. Stack the cloud software infrastructure together in one cohesive and and well developed package. So, uh, the Dell Technologies Cloud Platform from a technology standpoint is implemented with our VX rail appliances, which is a hyper converge infrastructure as well as VM ware clad foundation from a software standpoint. Now the code developed and jointly engineered capabilities allow for unique, unique feature off. Remember Cloud Foundation, where it can do lifecycle management off the entire stack, both the hardware and the software from a single interface. So it understands Vieques rails and understands the different form where levels and the X, where manager software versions etcetera. And then it would automatically select what is the best and well tested and supported software bundle that could be deployed without causing, you know, typical issues with version mismatches and trying to chase down different hardware compatibility, matrices, etcetera. All of those are eliminated, so it's a integrated lifecycle management experience. That's great. E. I'm sorry I have >>a little bit, a little bit of a lot of here, so I I apologize. >>I >>was just gonna say you've been at this for a while. Your product, you know, product management. So you're really thinking about speeds and feeds and you're thinking about roadmap and futures? I wonder if you can share your perspective on this evolution from kind of this race of to pure public cloud to this. This big discussion I think we had packed Elson. You're talking about a hybrid cloud back at being where 2013. So then, you know kind of this hybrid cloud and multi cloud and really kind of this maturation of this space as we as we've progressed for Ah, while now probably 10 years. >>Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, majority of our customers live in a multi cloud world. They have resource is that they consumed from one or more multi hyper sorry, uh, public cloud vendors and they have one or more on premise vendors as well, For their resource is and managing that complex environment across multiple providers with different skill set different tools, different sls. While it sounds really interesting to, you know, have workload drive your your deployment and place the workloads where they're best suited. It does prevent. It does present a challenge off managing a complex and and getting even more complex by the day, multi cloud environment. And that's where we think we have an advantage. Uh, based on some of the work that we're doing with the Dell Technologies Cloud console to bring a true multi cloud experience to our customers. Not one of the benefits of not being a, you know, a public cloud provider is that we are agnostic toe. All public cloud providers were fully accepting that certain workloads need to live in those environments. And through our cloud council, we will make it easy for customers to manage not only their on premises, assets and on premises. Cloud resource is, but also cloud resource is that reside in multiple public cloud vendors? >>That's good. Yeah, because it helps, right, because they've got stuff everywhere. It's like that, you know, there is no del technology, right? There's a lot of there's a lot of people that work there. There's a lot of project. There's a lot of, you know, kind of pieces to that puzzle. I wonder too. If you could share your perspective on kind of application modernization, right, That's always another big, you know, kind of topic. You should You should you take those old legacy APS. And could you should you try to rebuild them in, um, or cloud native way using containers and and all this flexibility and deploy them or, you know, which one. Should you just leave alone right there, running fine. They've been running fine for a while. They've got some basic core functionality that may be do or don't need toe to kind of modernize if you will. And maybe those resources should be spent on building in a new applications and new kind of areas of competitive differentiation. When you're working with their clients, how do you tell them to think about at modernization? >>Yeah, we looked at it from a business requirement standpoint. Off how what end goals. A customer trying to achieve through that application. And in some cases, you know, on you cover the spectrum, right there. Some cases modernization just means swapping out the hardware and putting it, putting that application on a more modern, more powerful hardware. At the other end, it z you know, going toe assassin model off, you know, everything available through through a cloud application. And in between those two extremities, there's, you know, virtualization that is re factoring this continual ization and micro services based implementation. But it comes down to understanding why that application is meant to deliver for who and what business requirements and business objectives that fulfills. That's how we use as a guiding principle on how to position application modernization to customers. >>All right, that's super helpful, because I'm sure that's a big topic. And, you know, there's probably certain APS that you just should not. You just shouldn't touch. You should probably just even Malone. They're running just fine. Let them do their thing. All >>right, fine. I'm sorry. No. Is this interesting? I was a conversation with the customer just earlier today where they have a portion off their infrastructure of some applications that they absolutely wanted to leave alone and and just change out the underlying hardware. But there are other applications where they really want to adopt, continue ization and re factor those out, rewrite those applications so that they can have more scalability and more flexibility around that. So it really is is determined by the needs. Yeah. >>Um so last question, del Tech world this year was a digital experience, like all the other shows that we've seen here in 2020 just But it's a huge event, right? A big, big show, and we're excited to be back to cover it again. But I'm curious if there's some special announcements within such a big show. Sometimes things get lost a little bit here in there, but any special announcements You want to make sure that get highlighted that people may have missed within this kind of see if content over the last several days >>22 major things that that I'm very excited to share with you One is Dell Technologies Cloud platform. We actually discussing and talking about Dell Technologies cloud platform in the concept off instant capacity blocks. So in the past, we talked about it with respect to notes. Uh, you know, adult technology cloud platform. You can have, you know, so many notes in it to power your your on premises. Cloud resource is but really have changed the conversation and look into how cloud customers air consuming those resource is and we really want to drive focus to that and introduced the concept of instance Capacity blocks instances are think of it as a workload profile, you know, CPU and memory put together and then, uh, in different combinations in a pre defined way to address different workload needs. So this really changes the conversation for our customers that they don't have to worry about designing or or speaking out the hardware platforms, but really understand how many resource is they need, how many, how much you know, processing power, how much memory, how much stories they need and they define their requirements was in those terms, and we will deliver those instance capacity blocks to them in their data centers. So behind the scenes is built by best in class. Uh, you know, hardware from Vieques rails and best in class software from being where, but it's really delivered in terms off instant capacity blocks. The second interesting thing that I wanna share with you and I profession a few times is Dell Technologies Cloud console. We're building this single pane of glass to manage our customers entire journey from on premises to multi cloud hybrid cloud with consistency off. How you can discover services how you can order services and how you can grow your the manager footprint. So those are a couple things from adult technology standpoint that we're really excited to share with people. >>Well, congratulations. I know you've been busting your tail for for quite a while on these types of projects, and it's nice to be able to finally release him out to the world. >>Well, it's just my pleasure. Alright. Thank you very much. >>Well, thank you for stopping by again. Congratulations. And will continue the ongoing coverage of Dell Technology World 2020. The digital experience. I'm Jeff Frick. He's to Park Prasad. You're watching the Cube. See you next time. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios (upbeat music) in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, and welcome to a special CUBE conversation. I'm Stu Miniman, coming to you from our Boston area studio, and really happy to welcome to the program to dig into some of the latest on what's going on in the multi-cloud ecosystem. First of all, coming back to the program, not too far from where I'm sitting, Joe CaraDonna. He is the Vice President of Engineering Technologies, with Dell Technologies, and joining him, someone he knows quite well, is Rich Sanzi, who's Vice President of Engineering at Google Cloud. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining. >> Great to be here, Stu. >> Thank you. >> All right, so Joe, we've been watching Dell Technologies, how the cloud portfolio and solution has been maturing, and working with the ecosystem. Maybe set the table for us, what's Dell doing with cloud? Why are we sitting here with the ? >> Well, we're here to talk about our OneFS for Google Cloud offering. We did something really special with Google here. We brought together the power and scale of our OneFS file system, along with the economics and the simplicity of public cloud, and together, I think, what we did is define a new standard for scalable file in public cloud, where we have a game-changing performance and capacity. We have a full range of enterprise-grade data management capabilities, and we enable real hybrid cloud, and open up new use cases for our customers. >> Excellent, thanks Joe for setting the table on that. Rich, let's pull you into the conversation. Before we go into the Google thing, give us a little bit about your background. You've been in storage, as I hinted at. You worked with Joe before, and tell us about your role inside of Google. >> Yeah, so I actually joined Google a few years ago, responsible for storage, and storage for all of Google, in addition to Google Cloud. And then, you know, big company things. We've been growing rapidly, and an opportunity opened up where I could be much more engaged on the Compute side, and so I'm responsible for Compute, the IaaS infrastructure for Google Cloud Engine. So it's my pleasure to be here and support Joe and Dell Technologies in the launch of OneFS on Google Cloud. >> Yeah, Rich, I'd like to come back to you on something, 'cause when you look at cloud, for many years it was cloud versus, you know, taking over the world, destroying everything before it. And especially, you look at Compute, or storage specifically, people have a little bit of a hard time wrapping their heads around, where my application lives. Does it just live one place? Are my applications going a little bit hybrid there? I look back, you know the disclosure, I worked at EMP for years. You know that storage is complicated and diverse, that's why we have file, block, and object. We have lots of different types of solutions out there. There's never been a silver bullet that says, "Okay, 90% of the people can use this one thing "for everything." So Rich, let's start with you. Cloud definitely has changed the discussion of storage, but I feel like I've seen the enterprise solutions looking more like the hyperscalers, and the hyperscale solution blurring the lines with what was traditionally happening in the data center. Do you agree with some of that? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it's really nice when you control the horizontal and the vertical, and you can adapt your application stack, but that's just not the reality where we are today. The reality is that a cloud vendor, working with customers who bring their workloads in the cloud, have to be able to support all of the best-in-class types of storage that people are using. You're absolutely right, we're using cloud, or sorry, we're using objects, we're using block, we're using file. One of the great pieces of this, is that in the file space, you really need scalable file to go along with your scalable compute. >> Excellent, so-- >> Yeah, and I'll just add-- >> Please, go ahead Joe. >> Yeah, I mean, our customers, for a long time, have been asking, our Isilon customers in particular, asking for a long time to bring this type of capability to the cloud. They want the scalability of the elastic compute in the GPUs. They also want the OpEx model, right? And they want to be able to bring the high performance compute workloads to the cloud, but they need a scalable file system that can keep up with the demand, and that's what we set out to solve for. >> Excellent, so Joe you mentioned that the Isilon piece. You know, we've watched what has happened with that. You know, Isilon has always been software at the core and highly scalable, so we'd like you both, Joe you teed it up there, but Rich, why is this important for Google Cloud customers, and how's it different from, maybe, how they were doing things in the past? >> Well, I think one of the things that I think I'm really excited about, is that this enables customers to leverage the cloud, and not make a ton of changes on their server side. So it really allows them to preserve their investment, and their applications, and the way that they think about storage, and the way they think about how that scales and performs. So that, for me, is a, let's make it easy for customers to consume cloud, rather than make it a hurdle, and that's my view. >> Yeah, and Joe, help frame this for us a bit. You know, we watched Dell Technologies recently had the Power Store announcement. A lot of discussion about cloud native architectures, moving to micro-services. Google's one of the earliest and most prominent examples of innerized architectures out there. So, where does the file solution fit in this whole discussion that customers have about modernization of their applications, and the journey that they're going on? >> Yeah, well, not all applications lend themselves well to object. They need file semantics, as well as the performance characteristics that come along with that, in terms of throughput and latencies. But even beyond that, what our customer's looking for is the data management capability, right? Whether it's snapshots, or the multi-protocol data access for NFS, or SMB, or even HDFS. And they're looking for replication, native replication, so they can have their Isilon systems in the data center, replicate their data directly into the file service of the cloud so they can actually operate on that data, and then there's things that we take for granted now, at least in the data center, of that high availability and that high durability, that storage arrays deliver. So, it's a combination of things that make it attractive for customers, that open up these new workloads, especially in terms of a high performance compute. >> Excellent, you talked a bit about some of the reasons why customers wouldn't want file. Of course, scale is one of those things we've been talking about for many years. Scale means different things to many people. There's few companies that know scale better than Google, so Rich, talk a little bit about scalability, performance, what these types of evolutions mean, and what you're hearing from customers. >> Certainly from a scale perspective, things like objects and object store is super scalable. It's also, you know, requires application changes, to really make use of. Customers are really looking for scalable solutions that enable them to bring their existing applications to cloud, and not have to make a ton of changes to it. That's one of the things I think is great about the Dell offering, is that it is a full-fidelity solution that has the performance and scale of what customers are expecting from their on-premise, and then when we wire that up with the Google network into our Google Cloud compute regions, we get very high performance, and very high fidelity, low latency as a result. We think that that removes potential headaches that customers may have when they bring big applications in the HBC space, and related high performance computing space in the cloud. >> Great, and Joe, is all this available now? Tell us a little bit about availability. What do you expect the demand to be for this solution? >> Well, I expect the demand to be great, right? The kind of workloads we're talking about here cut across a wide range of verticals. So everything from whether it's like sciences for genomics research, oil and gas for seismic data processing, media and entertainment for video editing and rendering, or even finishing, automotive telemetry data that requires processing and scale, and EDA. So, I think it hits upon a wide variety of use cases and verticals, and we've even structured our pricing and our tiers to make it more accessible for use cases from high performance, all the way down to even archival. >> So, maybe just to clarify, this is GA today? >> Yeah, yes, it is GA. (laughs) >> Okay, excellent. >> Beta is behind 'em. >> Appreciate that, and how does, you mentioned flexibility on pricing. How much of this is what's available from Google, what's available from Dell? How does that relationship and go-to-market work together? >> Yeah, well it's a native service in Google. You can provision directly from the Google Portal. You can manage your file systems directly from the Google Portal, and the billing is integrated. So you get one bill from Google, whether it's for our OneFS file service, or any of Google's native services. >> Excellent, Rich, we'd love to hear, talk about from the Google side, the ecosystem. I know last year, I was at the Google Next event, really saw strong demand from the partner community. They're looking to work with Google, many have worked with Google for many years. What kind of feedback have you been getting and how this fits into the overall solution? >> So, from a partner perspective, one of the things that we really want to enable our partners, is to bring their services onto our platform, and to integrate them tightly as if they were a Google offering, and that's so things like the integrated billing, the provisioning from the Google Portal, things like that are core tenets for us for helping our customers and our partners' customers easily consume services in the cloud. So, sort of one of the P-zero requirements, from my perspective, for our product offering here, was that in fact it was just integrated into the Google Cloud platform, and that it would be discoverable and easily usable by customers. So I think that enables partners to deliver a first-class service on our platform. >> Yeah, I mean, Rich, absolutely. Some of the feedback I've gotten from the ecosystem, is, how do they put it? They say, "Google kind of puts you through the ringer. "By the time you get through that, "it is going to work." And of course, we know, Google's doing that to make sure that there are good, reliable, strong services by the time the end customer gets them. All right, Joe-- >> Yes, and-- >> (laughs) Go ahead, yeah. >> I was going to say, you know, delivering these services, and delivering them reliably, it's a multi-company partnership, but we understand that at the end of the day, the customer wants to be assured that there is, they have one contact for problems with the service, and so that's where Google very much wants to be that primary contact, 'cause who knows where the issues could be. Are they in the data center, or are they in the network, or are they on the customer side? We feel responsibility to front (audio distorts). >> Yeah, absolutely. So, Joe, I guess, final thing for you. Talk about the Dell Technologies Google Cloud relationship, why that's important, what differentiates it from some of the many other partnerships that Dell has. >> Yeah, sure, before I touch on that, I want to talk about, you mentioned scale, and scale means different things to different people. And when we're talking about scale here, capacity's one element of that, and we certainly scale that way, but performance is the other way. And ESG did a performance study on the OneFS file service that we're offering, and they fired up the biozone benchmark, which fired up over 1000 cores in Google, running NFS load to the file system. They sized the file system at 2 petabytes, which seems large, and it is, but you can scale much larger than that with our service, and their results on throughput was 200 gigabytes per second on the read, and 100 gigabytes per second on the write. Now, these are game changing numbers, right? It's numbers like that that enable compute-intensive, high performance workloads in Google Cloud, and we're opening that up. And it's also important to note that this is a scalable file system, so if you want to double those throughput numbers, you just double the capacity of your file system. So that's the power of scale that we're delivering here. And our file system can scale up to 50 petabytes, so a lot of runway there. As far as the partnership with Google goes, I mean, Google's been great. Their infrastructure is amazing. In order to hit those kind of performance numbers, your head goes to compute and the file system, but there's also a network in there, and to hit those kind of numbers, Google had to supply a two terabyte per second network, and they were able to supply the compute and the network with ease, and without hiccup. So it's together that we're solving for the compute, network, and storage equation, and that we can deliver a holistic solution. And lastly, I would just point out, the engineering teams work great bringing that cloud native experience into that Google Portal, really simplifying user experience. So, they can provision and manage the systems directly from the Portal, as well as unifying the billing. So I think the partnership's been great, and it's going to be interesting to see how our customers use the service to accelerate their cloud journey. >> Well, Joe and Rich, thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on GA of this, and definitely look forward to hearing the customer journeys as they go on. >> Thank you, Stu. >> All right, thank you. And Rich, thank you for your partnership. >> Yeah, your welcome, Joe. Thank you, as well. >> All right, be sure to check out thecube.net for all the coverage, the virtual events that we're participating, as well as the back catalog of interviews that we've done. I'm Stu Miniman, and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE, live in San Francisco. Google Cloud Next '18. My co-host Jeff Frick and I are here with Suhail Dutta, VP of Cloud Services for Unity Technologies. Some of those popular game engines, developers of VR AR and mobile gaming, as well as game developers. A hot used case for Google Cloud. They love the speed. They love the features. We hearing that all, wait welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, thanks for having me. >> So I wish I was a kid again because the game experience now is so good and I'm kind of like a keyboard guy. So I'm not a good console player but now keyboard's back and now you got mobile games. I mean the games are amazing these days. >> They are, they are. They're amazing and they're amazing on every kind of platform. You could have mobile games, console games, PC games, input types, keyboards, controllers VR. It's stunning. >> I always say I've been observing the Internet. It used to be really the predictor of what's going to happen in computing and user experience really I think gaming leads a lot of it. Look at virtual currencies. Look at blockchain and crypto and virtual currencies in game for a long time. So it's a really leading indicator and certainly as you look at immersive experiences, gaming is not just gaming. It's potentially virtual reality, augmented reality around 3D is what you guys do. This is huge. >> Yeah. >> It's not just about gaming anymore. Talk about what you guys are doing. Take a minute to explain the company. Are you beyond gaming? What are some of the things you're working on. >> Yeah I think I said this at the keynote. One of the things we fundamentally believe is the world's better with more creators. So those creators for us traditionally have been in gaming but more and more we see that also happening in film. All kinds of media, animation, but also lots of industries like automotive and others. And so we more and more like to talk to ourselves as we're enabling, empowering creators to do what they love to do and we make their lives easier, and allow them to achieve what they wanted. >> It's the continuation of the democratization trend right because actually all the big hardware companies used to brag about how much time it took to render all the crazy scenes and all these beautiful big 70 millimeter movies. Everybody can't afford that horsepower, doesn't have the time, so with with engines like what you guys have you know you've been able to spread that developer ecosystem out, the creator ecosystem out dramatically to allow so much more points of view and people to contribute and to create all these cool new things. >> Yeah you know I think Diane actually said this on stage at the Unite event. Our founders may have coined democratized development and 15 years ago, we've always believed that to be true. We've been for the community every size of team for as long as we've been around, and it remains the first principle we use in our mission. We do solve our problems. We do enable our creators success but democratized development is core to everything we do, and we've been (mumbles). >> The younger generation is gravitating towards games. Obviously it's a gateway drug to software development if you think about it. Robotics is another one. You're seeing these maker culture kind of things really attracting developers at a whole another level. It's not computer science, software engineering degree, banging out raw machine language. This is like for fun. There's a whole new artistry going on. >> There is yeah. >> What is your view on this new trend around software artistry because there's engineering certainly involved. The engines are getting smarter. Distraction layers are becoming available. What's your take on that? >> Yeah I think the engineering side of it has always been about raising that level of abstraction so that people can focus on what they love to do. So if you're a game maker you probably got into making games because you love games and you love making them. You probably didn't get into it to make an engine. So that's always been very true for us, and we've gotten better at that. But some of the things we've learned along the way of course to your point are, the various kinds of artists that are actually just as or more critical through these kinds of creative endeavors, and we've actually been making great strides in not only helping artists of all kinds work themselves in Unity, or in other tools, but also then work seamlessly with engineers, which oftentimes ends up being a place where there is friction, but in an environment like Unity, you can't have a lot of separation right? We have a 3D environment. You put this on your computer, you work in it, you build your models, you write your scripts, you write all of that in one cohesive way, because otherwise games take way longer to build. They have all kinds of issues and communication. I think it's quite key for us. >> So I always love to watch the game threads on Reddit, EA and these guys, the corporate's taken over. You're seeing more younger artists coming in. You guys have to maintain your relevance to keep those developers happy. You got to continue to innovate. Gaming is a lot of pressure. >> Yes. >> How do you guys keep up? What are some of the things you're doing with tech? What do you bring into the market? How do you keep ratcheting up the capability so that they don't flock somewhere else or apparently so they can create better products. >> Right, I think probably the highest level principle there is leading on from democratized, but we focus a lot on our community of creators. Both in terms of the content, the samples, the learning, the tools, something Google does quite well actually. And that's been instrumental in empowering this community. That's very strong. I mean it is in many ways our greatest strength. We have a huge number of developers and artists and creators that work with Unity. So if you were to want to create something, and you were looking for answers, using our services or others, you can go out there. Now on the technology side, the way we look at it is in many ways we've looked at it as your engine team. So performance by default some of the things that we're doing to make really, really high performance, efficient computing, on all kinds of devices, letting you do more with them, but then also there's a responsible aspect which is if you think about improving the performance and power consumption on devices, is very important to us. And then an area where we're really putting in a lot of effort now is the cloud and with Google on connected games, which is why-- >> So let's talk about that because we're here and it's interesting the creator conversation because obviously Google owns YouTube, which has spawned a whole different kind of class of creators that are disrupting the media business. So you're here kind of what does Google give to you guys? Why are you partnering with them? What's kind of the story? >> Of course. So we talk about connected games right? So what we mean by that of course are games where players can connect to each other and or to the developers that create them. Oftentimes, we use the term multiplayer, which of course is a particular sub-genre of connected games. They run the gamut from a game that you might play on your phone and then you interact with other players through leaderboards and chat and things like that. So they're connected not necessarily real-time multiplayer and on the other side of the spectrum you might have a game where you run around and interact with each other in real time in a 3D environment or a massive multiplayer game where you stay in that world for many, many, many years and you act as a character. Because Unity has so many creators, the entire spectrum of those games, connected games are important to us, important to our users. For all those games, you need massive amounts of infrastructure. You need lots of infrastructure, you need performance items, like you need the best network and you need lots of services that help you again to the earlier point focus on making your game. This is an area that both Unity and Google care deeply about. If you take a small studio or even a large studio for that matter, that got in the business to create their game, they don't want to spend all of their time learning how to make an engine or set up a bunch of infrastructure. The area where we're focusing a lot now is that marriage between Google and Unity where you can because of our alliance, we can raise that level of abstract to your earlier point and let them build connected games in an easier way. >> Talk about the role of data because obviously you look at the data that's generated. I mean which could be user gesture data, I mean everything's tracked. >> Yeah. >> I mean that's a big data solution problem opportunity you guys have. >> Yeah and I think so one of the things we like to say of course is you know we're a platform. We enable our users to build and run successful games and our users being the developers and artists that data's theirs, and then they are able to then do really wonderful things with that data if they so choose. So you're right, for the games that have so many players online and all these actions, there is an amazing amount of data, but fundamentally in an anonymized way around what makes games more fun. And that's a hard problem to solve. It's why our creators have the hardest problem of it all is make something fun where data can play a huge role in that. >> How is the relation with Google Cloud and your engine with those developers? Do they get the magic of Google and you pass that through or is it built into your product that's abstracted away? >> Yeah it's a combination of things, so I think there's one side, which is us building services that run on top of Google Cloud so if for instance you need a matchmaker which is a very common piece of technology, but quite complicated piece of technology, for games is to match players into games quickly. We are working with Google, we're collaborating on an open source project, that we call Open Match that comes out later this summer, and then we're building a service on top of that that our users can just pick up and use. It runs on Google Cloud. At the same time, Google brings many other capabilities to bear, things like maps and other capabilities from GCP, that they can then bring to our users in a more direct way rather than building a product together, and then of course Unity actually now runs quite a few cloud services and we're going to migrate all of those to Google Cloud as well. So it's sort of three aspects of that. >> And what's your vision for Unity? If you look for and looking at what's coming on with Google, as to the future of your engine looking at the creator market, Hollywood. Just at Sundance I did a panel with Intel on the future of entertainment, and we talked about the new artists coming in. You have the social networks now reforming this game connector concept is pretty huge. >> Yeah. >> This is a new dynamic, so you got to build new services. What's your vision of how your going to build out these cloud services? Can you share your vision and thoughts on? >> Yeah we can yeah so I think the, within the space of connected games of course like I said there's many different categories of these games, but there are some fundamental building blocks that you can build that we can build together, Google and Unity can to empower all of these kinds of games. Matchmaking is a particular example, but at the end of the day, games that blur the lines between, they're running on a device, they're running on a PC, they're running on a console or they let players pick them up wherever they go, but also interact with each other right because as AR and VR and these virtual worlds come to fruition, more and more it's going to be about us interacting not just in the virtual world but also in the real world and able to do that and most of those things are predicated on this world that exists online, and it's all running on infrastructure. There's a lot of infrastructure that's required there, so we've got a really rich roadmap over the next many, many years to continue to invest in this area and help our users create these kinds of games because they are in the games world, the most influential kind, but more and more in other areas of our life they're also going to be the same technologies that are applied there. >> I just love to get your perspective. You've been in this space for a long time gaming but also 3D specifically. Now 3D is so still nascent. It's hard to do for most people. The experiences are still being developed, but it's come so long, so as you look at kind of where 3D is evolved, both to create it as well as to experience kind of what are your general thoughts of where we are on that path and what do you see kind of in the short term and near-term in terms of how that's really going to change the way we do things, whether it's work, gaming or experiencing other types of things? >> Sure I think that I'd like to go back to one of the things you said, where when you're playing games you have to stand up. We've come a long way. (all laughing) So we have come a long way. You look at some of the content of the games that are being produced, you even look at just the kinds of content and the interactive content that's being created in Unity, it's amazing if you look at how far we've come. I think to your point you're right. There is a long way to go, there's lots of it. I mean all our hardware capabilities just continue to get better, like the latest phones, the latest consoles. They're so powerful right we have these supercomputers in our pockets with amazing capabilities and consumers demand that kind of stuff, the latest level of graphics. I think all of that stuff continues. I think our CEO, John talked about in this sort of AR and VR, we're kind of going through this level of excitement and then we have the trough of disillusionment and all these kinds of things right. We've got some elements of that but there's a lot of great companies doing a lot of fantastic stuff, and I think that that's going to come to bear, and so I think Unity is there with them and we're really well positioned. >> The tell signs are there. You're seeing people using VR in areas that give them a unique thing that's so scarce in areas where that's pharmaceuticals, doctor, I see even heard Tom Brady uses a VR to look at defenses before he plays games, but this is an interesting question for you though, I want to get your thoughts. Do you have a unique position to see the data of what your game engine is doing? For the folks out there, the young kids who are in elementary school, high school that love games. That don't necessarily want to be computer science major. Maybe they don't even have a direction of any kind but want to start hacking away and start coding. What patterns do you see that would help someone get started and so they don't drop out or abandon it, get addicted if you will, what are some of the things you could share that you've seen successful getting someone involved in either coding games, getting involved in the community. What are some of those best practices or patterns that you've seen? >> Right I mean so I think there's probably a technical answer to that and then there's a non-technical one. I think your word community resonates with me a lot. So for anyone starting out I think there's a lot that an individual creator can accomplish but given the world we're in, we have these extremely rich communities that are helping each other, whether it's the open source community in a more general sense for web or servers, but even in machine learning if you hear the guy from Cal-vil talk, they were talking about machine learning community, and it was pretty amazing to hear him talk about that. For us it's the creator community and we have a really rich one and there's lots of people there that bring many skills to bear, which ends up being way more critical than things like very specific technology trends for this kind of thing, so I think-- >> Just mentoring and stuff going on in the creator community. People are helping each other big time. >> There's a huge amount. I mean this notion of developers and creators helping each other, sometimes not for any money, is a trend being seen everywhere, not just-- >> So advice is jump into a community, get a check in... >> I think it's probably cliched a little bit, if you can find a project or a set of projects or a type of thing that you really enjoy doing, you'd be surprised at what skills you can bring to bear and everyone needs help. >> So download the emulator, get some code in your hands, jump into a community-- >> Yeah Unity is free. Download it. It's easy to get started and then work with the community. I think almost always it's find the project that you really care about and start helping. >> Final question for you to wrap up the segment. For the people that are not inside the ropes in the industry that looking at Google, see Google Cloud, wow a lot of buzz on Google Cloud, knowing what we knew two years ago, oh gee the original app engine kind of concept was Google Cloud. Now so much more. What would you say to the people watching now how has Google Cloud changed? What's different? What are they doing right and where they need to improve? >> So even before Unity I've been a user of aspects of Google Cloud and App Engine. And I think they have come an amazing way in terms of the way they're approaching every other aspect that isn't just the technology aspect. I think the tech it's Google. They've always been impeccable. >> It's great tech. Yeah great tech, yeah. >> Their network is incredible. Their server is incredible. So they've always been extremely good at that, but the things that are so much better the level of support, they're working with us very closely all across their organization. We are enjoying working with them a lot and they're really trying to help us be successful much like we help our creators, so that's resonating with us a lot, and we found that to be great and I think that you know everything I see makes us quite happy that that we are partners with them. >> And they're bringing some goodies to the party. They've bred open source contributions, pretty phenomenal. I mean Kubernetes I mean that's just game-changing right there. You got BigQuery and they got some, they're contributing some jewels. >> They have some amazing tech that can be brought to bear on a lot of different things right? So we're are a heavy Kubernetes user and have been for a while. Even before we were Google partners, so I think this is great things that they announced with GKE, this conference really mattered to us, GKE on prem, and then they're also a very partner driven company, and I think they recognize our knowledge and expertise in games and I think that that's an area where their expertise in cloud and our expertise in games can be very very great. >> I think it's a great opportunity for Google to make the market on the partnership ecosystem side. They have a lot they could bring to the table. They can make people successful and people can make money and deliver great products. That's a winning formula. >> Yeah exactly. >> - So let's see. Congratulations on your success. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for sharing the insight into Unity Technologies. It's theCUBE bringing you all the action here out in the open with Google Cloud. More coverage, stay with us. We are at day three of three days of live coverage. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. Stay with us we'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> Okay welcome back everyone to our special live presentation for cloud and IT analytics for the hybrid cloud. I'm John Furrier, your host. We just had an interview with Peter Burris, keynote presenter. Our second one-on-one conversation is with our second keynote, Sudip Datta is the Vice President of Product Manager for CA Technologies. Sudip, great to see you. Great keynote. >> Good to see you. Thank you. >> A lot of information on your keynote so folks can check it out online and on demand, but I wanted to ask you, you mentioned evolving infrastructure, so it's the first thing that you kind of set the table with. What do you mean by that? >> Sure. So first of all, as I mentioned in my keynote, the infrastructure today is intimately connected with business operations and the user experience, right? So how is the infrastructure evolving and catering to this ongoing demand of app economy? Before we get there, let's define what infrastructure means to CA, right? Infrastructure is servers, storage, network. Could be running on prem, could be running on public cloud, right? So let's look at what's happening on each layer, right. In the server layer, we are seeing bi-directional, somewhat antithetical movement, right? One on the consolidation side of things and the other on expansion to multiple clouds, right? On the consolidation side of things, of course there are re-amps and now we see more and more containers getting adopted like I was looking at a survey. The container growth between 2016 and 2017 is more than 40%. So we are also hearing about serverless compute, stateless compute, and so on and so forth. So that's on the server side of things, right? Storage, we are hearing about object storage. Network is getting more and more abstracted with software defined networking, right? Another survey portrayed that between 2014 and 2020, the SDN market is anticipated to grow at a CAGR of 53% and that's huge. Huge. So the infrastructure is evolving, getting more dynamic, getting more abstract, right? And therefore there are challenges to monitoring and management. >> And you're seeing growth in Kubernetes just to throw a cherry on top of that conversation because that's orchestrating the apps which require programmable infrastructure. >> Absolutely. >> I want to just make a comment, I was just talking with Peter Burris and I want to highlight one of your pieces of your keynote that you mentioned that there's four pillars of modern analytics and monitoring and Peter and I were talking about the digital business requirement for a modern infrastructure and I was kind of teasing it out, I want to see where he wanted to go with it, I kind of put him on the spot, but I was saying hey, data's been a department, analytics has kind of been a department, but now it's kind of holistic. He kind of slapped me around, said "no no, it's still going to be a department." Although technically right, I was trying to say there's a bigger picture. >> Sudip: Sure. >> This is kind of a mindset shift. People are are re-imagining their analytics as a strategic asset just like data's becoming a strategic asset. My question is, if you don't monitor it, how do you even understand it? So you need these four pillars, and they are policy based configuration that's dynamic, unified monitoring, contextual intelligence, and collaboration integration. With the trend of the true private cloud report, you're starting to see the shift in labor from non-differentiated to differentiated. And those kind of four pillars as kind of a breeding ground for innovation. Are they connecting, do you see that connecting into this new IT role? >> Absolutely. As you rightly pointed out, the non-differentiated labor is being replaced by automation, by machine learning, by scripts, whatever it is. It's whole-scale automation. So that itself lends to the fact that there is a different shade of labor which is the value-added labor. So how does labor create value? And that's related to the four pillars that we talked about. How to manage these dynamic environments and glean data out of these environments to provide valuable insights and intelligence. We talked about contextual intelligence. So when it comes to contextual intelligence, IT can be intimately involved with the business to provide the IT context to the business or the business context to the IT and vice versa and add value to the business. Giving a specific example... In prior times, IT used to be reactive. When business runs out of, runs a camping, they run out of capacity and they say we need to add servers and they're rolling a server and so on and so forth. Now, of course the automation side of server provisioning has been taken care of. There are a lot of APIs out there, there are Amazon cloud formations and all that, but you still need a policy that is going to proactively detect, perform a what-if analysis that if there is a 2x ramp in business, there is going to be corresponding pressure on infrastructure and act proactively. That way, I can get to be the friend of business. It's not really acting after the fact, but acting proactively. >> I was talking with Umar Kahn, one of your colleagues yesterday. We talked about cars. I love Teslas 'cause it's a great example of innovation and you got old cars and you got Teslas. Really we're seeing kind of a move in IT where modern looks like the Tesla of IT where things are just different but work much better. So I got to ask you a question, Tesla's a great cool car, there's a lot of hype and buzz around it, but it's still got to drive, right? It's still got to be great. So you mentioned faults, fault detection and machine learning in your presentation, but IT ops still needs to run. And you got IOT Edge that Peter pointed out that needs to be figured out. So you got to figure out these new things and you got to run stuff, so you need the fault detection with the machine but you still got to be cool. Like the Tesla of IT. How are you guys becoming the Tesla of IT? >> Absolutely. I will touch upon a few points. First of all, as I mentioned right at the beginning, that data is important but we focused on the three Vs of data, which is velocity, volume and variety. But there is also the veracity of data and CA has been in the business of monitoring, capturing this data from various systems. From mobiles to mainframes, right? For the last few decades, right? So we have the true data, we are collecting the data, and now we are building a data analytics platform on which the data will be ingested and we will give insights. So that's going to be a big differentiator. The other is, we have all the tools from application management to infrastructure management tools, net ops tools, and we are connecting all of them to cover the entire digital chain. The reason is important, and I will highlight only one particular aspect of it. Network, the most neglected compliment in the infrastructure-- >> And the most important. Everyone complains about the network the most. >> Most important. Even when a kid plays a video game, it's an app. Most of us tend to forget that it's an app and the most important element in that app is the network. And we are in the business of network management so we are not only server and storage and app, we are also tying network management into this overall analytics platform. And within network management, it's tacit management, flow management. These are all important things because today's world, if your network betrays on you, then your user experience-- >> So I got to ask you, the products are in the company. And this is kind of important because most people who think about monitoring analytics would have kind of a different view based on what they're instrumenting. You're kind of talking about network and apps. You're kind of looking at the big picture. Are you tying that together? >> Absolutely. >> Can you explain how? >> Absolutely. So CA has been a market leader in application performance management and in network management and in server and cloud management. So we are tying all this together, the whole digital chain, as I said we are ingesting all the data into an open standard space, open source-based analytics platform, and we are collating the data so you can see what are the networks elements that preceded before a server got choked? Or before the application became inaccessible? We can tie it all together, all the units together, and perform assisted create and root cause analysis. >> Well I wanted to put you on the spot today because we are live, so I got to ask you as the VP of Product Management, what's your favorite product? Do you have a favorite child? (laughing) >> I mean, all of them are my favorite. >> There it is! Of course you can't pick a favorite, everyone's watching. >> Yeah, so yeah. >> As a parent you can't pick a favorite child. They're all good in their own way, right? >> They're all kind of horses for courses. Really, they do fabulous things. At the same time, we don't want the proliferation of tools. We are trying to rationalize tools like the net ops, the cloud ops and application performance management and tie them all together into our analytics platform. You can say like the analytics is my favorite word today because that's the new kid on the block but as I said, all of them are very very important. >> Well I always say, whoever could be the Tesla for IT is going to win it all. So with that, serious question, as VP of Product Management, do want to ask a serious question around that. What's your North Star? When you talk to your product teams, they're specking out products, they're talking to customers, and the engineers are building it out. What is the North Star? What is the ethos of CA these days? 'Cause you guys are pushing the envelope while maintaining that install base of customers. What is the North Star? What is the ethos? What's the guiding principles for CA Technologies? >> Absolutely. Customers, customers and customers, right? And the reason being, and I will give you... Of course, the user experience matters, but there is also an empirical reason. We are a market leader in the MSP space, for example. MSP and and just the space, and not only do we care about our customers but the customers of our customers as well. MSPs like ONE-NET, and Bespin Global, that you see is monitoring tools for managing their customers. So our allegiance goes all the way to our customers and their customers. So that's a guiding principle. But at the same time, we try to innovate beyond what our customers have been asking for. That's where the intuitive integration between application performance management, infrastructure management, network management, comes. And we want to be absolutely a leader in this end-to-end management. >> We talk with our WebOn team all the time and Peter and I talk about with Dave Alante all the time about how important IT operations are going to be right now because all the market research shows, Peter mentioned it, private cloud, true private cloud, hybrid cloud, massive growth area. Lot of opportunities for ops to really deliver value because the dev-ops momentum, because of the things like containers and Kubernetes, the programmable infrastructure has to be there. So I got to ask you the question, from a customer standpoint, and folks watching. What's the most important thing that your customers need to know when they start to re-think the architecture and ultimately make that 10 to 20 year investment in this new modern IT operations with CA? >> Sure. The first thing is, and I will re-visit the four pillars, right? That the dynamic, discovery, policy-based management is very very important because discovery, a lot of times we neglect discovery because it's always there. But the thing is, that's the starting point. That's the cradle where the overall monitoring takes birth. So that's the first point. The second is bring everything into, if not a single but minimal panes of glass. Maybe net ops has a tool and cloud ops has a tool and of course you have a tool for applications performance management. So those are the building blocks of monitoring. And then, overlay it with contextual intelligence and analytics. As I said, we are ingesting all the data, not only from CA tools, but using open APIs from other tools into our analytics framework and provide contextual intelligence. And last but not the least, collaboration and integration. We are integrating with frameworks such as Slack to provide collaboration between dev ops and IT ops, between storage admins and server admins, and so on and so forth, right? So those are the building blocks. So if you are thinking about what you are going to do in 10 years timeframe, first of all, hybrid cloud is a reality. So for managing the overall, entire spectrum of hybrid cloud, you need a tool that's unified, that can do dynamic policy-based management, that can provide intelligence, and that can encourage collaboration. >> Sudip, thank you so much for sharing this one-on-one conversation. For the folks watching, there's a great slide that outlines that operational intelligence. It was a beautiful eye candy, it's like an architecture slide, I was geekin' out on it. Check it out on the keynote on the on demand. Sudip, thank you so much for sharing your insight here on the future of modern analytics and monitoring strategies. This is a special presentation. One-on-one drill-down with keynote presenter Sudip Datta who is the Vice President of Product Management, part of the cloud and IT analytics digital business. We'll be right back with more one-on-one interviews after this short break.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you >> by Adobe. >> Well, Brian, welcome to the Cube Lives Conversations here. Recovering Adobe summat twenty nineteen in Las Vegas. I'm tougher with Jeff Frick co hosting for the next two days wall to wall coverage around Adobe Summit, a company that is transformed from some making software to being a full blown cloud and data provider. Changing the user experience That's our Kino revue. Jeff, this morning was the keynote. The CEO Sean Tom knew no. Ryan took over in two thousand seven. Bruce Chizen Cube alumni, right. What a transformation. They actually did it. They kind of kept down low. But over those years absolutely changed the face of Adobe. We're seeing it now with a slew of acquisitions. Now seventeen thousand people attending this conference. This is kind of interesting story, your thoughts >> a lot of interesting stuff going on here, John and I think fundamentally they they took the risk right. They change your business from a by a news buying new license every year for eight hundred bucks. Nine hundred bucks, whatever used to be for Creative Cloud to go to an online model. And I think what was interesting about what Johnson, who said, is when you are when you're collecting money monthly, you have to deliver value monthly. And it completely changed the way that they paste their company the way they deliver products the way their product development works. And they moved to as we talked about all the time, instead of a sample of data that's old and making decisions. Now you can make decisions based on real time data in the way people are actually using the product. And so they've driven that transformation. And then now, by putting your whole sweet and with these gargantuan acquisitions of Mar Keto, now they're helping their customers really make that transition to a really time dynamic, digitally driven, data driven enterprise to drive this customer experience. >> It's interesting. Adobes, transformations, realist, legit It happened. It's happening. It's interesting, Jeff, you and I both live in Palo Alto, and I was looking through my Lincoln and my Facebook. There's literally dozens of friends and your colleagues over the years that I've interfaced with that all work at Adobe but feed all the acquisitions. They've built quite a huge company, and they brought a different set of experiences, and this is the to be the big story. That hasn't been told yet. Adobe again. This our first time covering Adobe Summit and excited to be here and continue to cover this. But here's what's going on That's really important. They transformed and are continuing Transformer. They did it in a way that was clever, smart and very predictive in their mind. They took a slow, slow approach to getting it right, and we heard the CEO talk about this. They had an old software model that was too slow. They want to attract the next generation of users, and they wanted to reimagine their product and the ecosystem changed their business model and change their engagement with customers. Very targeted in its approach, very specific to their business model. And their goals were innovate faster, moved to the cloud moved to a subscription based business model. But that's not it. Here the story is, the data equation was some kind of nuances in the keynote, like we didn't get the data right. Initially, we got cloud right, but data is super important, and then they got it right, and that's the big story. Here is the data driven and this is the playbook. I mean, you can almost substitute Adobe for your company. If someone's looking to do Tracy, pick your spots, execute, don't just talk about >> it, right? Right? Yeah. They call it the DDO in the data driven operating model, and he pulled up the dash board with some fake data talked about The management team runs off of this data, and when you know it's everything from marketing spend and direct campaigns and where people are sampling, there was a large conversation, too, about the buyer journey. But to me, the most important part is the buying act is not the end of the story, right. You want to continue to engage with that customer wherever and however, and whenever they want you. There was an interesting stat that came out during the keynote, where you know the more platforms your customer engages with you, the much higher the likelihood that they're goingto that they're going to renew, that they're going to retain so to me. I think you know, we talk a lot about community and engagement and this experience concept where the product is a piece of the puzzle, but it's not. It's not the most important piece that might be the piece Well, what she experiences built around, but it's It's just a simple piece. I think the guy from Best Buy was phenomenal. The story, the transformation, that company. But they want to be your trusted. A provider of all these services of two hundred dollars a year. They'LL come take care of everything in your home so you know they don't just want to ship a box. Say, say goodbye. They want to stay. >> Well, let's talk. Let's talk about that use case. I think the best bike Kino Best Buy was on the Kino with CEO. But I think that what I what? I was teasing out of that interview and you just brought it up. I want to expand on that They actually had massive competition from Amazon. So you think, Oh my God, they're going to be out of business? No, they match the price. They took price off the table so they don't lose their customers who want to buy it on Amazon. You can still come in the story of experience, right? They shifted the game to their advantage where they said, we're not going to be a product sales company. We're going to sell whatever the client want customers want and match Amazons pricing and then provide that level of personalization. That then brought up the keys CEOs personalization piece, which I'd like to get your thoughts on because you made a stat around their emails, right, he said, Quote personalization at scale, Right? That's what they're >> that's that they're doing right? And he talked about, you know, they used to do an e mail blast and it was an email blast. Now they have forty million versions of that e mail that go out forty million version. So it is this kind of personalization at scale. And you know, the three sixty view of the customer has been thrown around. We could go in the archives. We've been talking about that forever. But it seems that now you know the technology is finally getting to where, where needs to be. The cloud based architectures allow people to engage in this Army Channel way that they could never do it before. And you're seeing As you said, the most important thing is a data architecture that can pull from disparate sources they talked about in the Kenya. The show does they actually built their customer profile as the person was engaging with the website as they gave more information so that they can customize all this stuff for that person. Of course, then they always mentioned, But don't be creepy about it. I >> don't have too >> far so really delivering this mask mask, personalization at scale. >> I think one of the lessons that's coming out a lot of our interviews in the Cube is Get the cloud equation right first, then the data one. And I think Adobe validates that here in my mind when it continue investigating, report that dynamic the hard news. Jeff The show was Adobe Cloud experiences generally available, and I thought that was pretty interesting. They have a multiple clouds because a member they bought Magenta and Marquette on a variety of other acquisitions. So they have a full on advertising cloud analytics, cloud marketing cloud and a commerce cloud. And underneath those key cloud elements, they have Adobe, sensi and Adobe Experience platform, and we have a couple of night coming on to talk about that, and that's making up. They're kind of the new new platform. Cloud platforms experience Cloud. They're calling it, but the CEO at Incheon quote. I want to get your reaction to that. This, he said, quote people by experiences, not products. That's why they're calling it the experience cloud. I hear you in the office all the time talking about this, Jeff. So it's about to experience the product anymore, >> right? It is the passion that you can build around a community in that experience. My favorite examples from the old days is Harley Davidson. How many people would give you know they're left pinkie toe, have their customers tattoo their brand on their body? Right in The Harley Davidson brand is a very special, a special connotation, and the people that associate with that really feel like a part of a community. The other piece of it is the ecosystem. They talk about ecosystem of developers and open source. If you can get other people building their business on the back of your platform again, it's just deepens the hook of engagements that opens up your innovation cycle. And I think it's such a winning formula, John, that we see over and over again. Nobody can do by themselves. Nobody's got all the smartest people in the room, so get unengaged community. Get unengaged, developer ecosystem, more talk of developers and really open it up and let the creativity of your whole community drive the engagement and the experience. >> We will be following the personalization of scale Cube alumni former keep alumni who is not at the show. I wanted to get opinion. Satya Krishna Swami. He's head of persuasion. Adobe had pinned them on linked him. We'LL get him on the Cuban studio so keep on, we're going to follow that story. I think that's huge. This notion of personalization of scale is key, and that brings us to the next big news. The next big news was from our friend former CEO of Marquette. Oh, Steve Lucas. Keep alumni. They launched a account based experience initiative with Adobe, Microsoft and Lincoln, and I find that very interesting. And I'd start with Ron Miller TechCrunch on Twitter about this. Lincoln's involved, but they're keeping in Lincoln again. The problem of data is you have these silos, but you have to figure out how to make it work. So I'm really curious to see how that works, so that brings up that. But I think Steve Lucas it was it was very aggressive on stage, but he brought up a point that I want to get your thoughts on, He said. Were B to B company, but we're doing B to seeing metrics the numbers that they were doing at Marquette. Oh, we're in the B to see rain. So is this notion of B to B B to see kind of blurring? I mean, everyone is a B to C company these days. If everything's direct to consumer, which essentially what cloud is, it's a B to see. >> Yeah, well, it's interesting records. We've talked about the consumer ization of again. Check the tapes for years and years and years, and the expectations of our engagement with applications is driven by how we interact with Amazon. How we interact with Facebook, how we interact with these big platforms. And so you're seeing it more and more. The thing that we talked about in studio the other day with Guy is that now, too, you have all these connected devices, so no longer is distribution. This this buffer between the manufacturing, the ultimate consumer, their products. Now they're all connected. Now they phone home. Now the Tesla's says, Hey, people are breaking in the back window. Let's reconfigure the software tohave a security system that we didn't have yesterday that wasn't on our road map. But people want, and now we have it today. So I think Steve's perception is right on. The other thing is that you know, there's so much information out there. So how do you add value when that person finally visits you in their journey? And let's face it, most of the time, a predominant portion of their engagement is going to be Elektronik, right? They're going to fill out a form. They're going to explore things. How are you collecting that data? How are you magic? How are you moving them along? Not only to the purchase but again, is that it was like to say, is never the orders, the reorder in this ongoing engagement. >> And that's their journey. They want to have this whole life cycle of customer experience. But the thing that that got that caught me off guard by McKeen against first time I went satin Aquino for an adobe on event was with me. All these parts coming together with the platform. This is a cloud show. Let's plain and simple. This is Cloud Technologies, the data show we've gone to all the cloud shows Amazon, Google, Microsoft, you name it CNC Athletics Foundation. This is a show about the application of being creative in a variety of use cases. But the underpinnings of the conversations are all cloud >> right, And they had, you know, to show their their commitments of data and the data message right? They had another cube alumni on Jewell of police have rounded to dupe some it all the time, and she talked about the data architecture and again, some really interesting facts goes right to cloud, she said. You know, most people, if you don't have cloud's been too much time baby sitting your architecture, baby sitting your infrastructure Get out of the way Let the cloud babe sit your infrastructure and talk. And she talked about a modern big data pipe, and she's been involved with Duke. She's been involved with Spark has been involved in all this progression, and she said, You know, every engagement creates more data. So how are you collecting that data? How are you analyzing that data and how are you doing it in real time with new real time so you could actually act on it. So it's It's very much kind of pulling together many of the scenes that we've uncovered >> in the last two parts of a Kino wass. You had a CEO discussion between Cynthia Stoddard and >> Atticus Atticus, other kind. Both of them >> run into it again. Both big Amazon customs, by the way, who have been very successful with the cloud. Then you had and you're talking engineering, that's all. They're my takeaway from the CEO. One chef I want to get your thoughts on because it can be long in the tooth, sometimes the CEO conversation. But they highlighted that cloud journey is is there for Adobe Inn into it? But the data is has to be integrated, totally felt like data. Variables come out the commonality of date, and she mentioned three or four other things. And then they made a point and said, quote data architectures are valuable for the experience and the workload. This is critical with hearing us over and over again. The date is not about which cloud you're using. It's about what the workload, right, right? The workloads are determining cloud selection, so if you need one cloud. That's good. You need to write. It's all depending on the workload, not some predetermined risk management. Multi cloud procurement decision. This is a big shift. This is going to change the game in the landscape because that changes how people buy and that is going to be radical. And I think they're they're adobes right on the right wave. Here they're focusing on the user experience, customer experience, building the platform for the needs of the experience. I think it's very clever. I think it's a brilliant architecture. >> Yeah, she said that the data archive data strategy lagged. Right? The reporting lag. They're trying to do this ddo m >> um, >> they didn't have commonality of data. They didn't have really a date. Architecture's so again. You can't build the house unless you put in the rebar. You build the foundation, you get some cement. But once you get that, that enabled you to build something big and something beautiful, and you've got to pay attention. But really, we talk about data driven. We talk about real time data, they're executing it and really forcing themselves by moving into the subscription business model. >> Alright, Final question I want to get one more thought from you before I weigh in on my my answer to my question, which is What do you mean your opinion? What was the most important story that came out of the keynote one or two >> or well or again? You know, John, I was in the TV business for years and years before getting into tech, and I know the best buy story on what came before them and what came before them and what came before them. So what really impressed me was the digital transformation story that the CEO shared first, to basically try to get even with their number one competitors with which was Amazon in terms of pricing and delivery. And then really rethink who they are Is a company around using technology to improve people's lives. They happen to play in laundry. They play in kitchen, they play in home entertainment. They play in computers and education, so they have a broad footprint and to really refocus. And as he said, To be successful, you need to align your corporate strategy and mission with people's strategy and mission. Sounds like they've been very successful in that and they continue to change the company. >> I agree. And I would just kind of level it up and say the top story, in my opinion, wass the fact that Adobe is winning their innovating. If you look at who's on stage like best buy into it, the people around them are actually executing with Cloud with Dae that at a whole another level that they've gone the next level. I think the big story here is Adobe has transferred, has transformed and continues to do transformation. And they just had a whole nother level. And I think the story is Oracle will be eating their dust because I think they're going to tow. You know, I think sales force should be watching Adobe. This is a big move. I think Oracle is gonna be twisting in the wind from adobes success. >> Well, like he said, you know, they tie the whole thing together from the creativity, which is what creative cloud is to the delivery to them, the monetization in the measuring. So now they you know, they put those pieces together, so it's a pretty complete suite. So now you can tie back. How has my conversion based on What type of creative How is my conversion based on what type of campaigns? And again the forty million email number just blows me away. It's not the same game anymore. You have to do this and you can't do by yourself. You gotta have automation. You got have good analytics and you got a date infrastructure that will support your ability to do that. >> So just a little report card in adobe old suffer model that's over. They have the new model, and it's growing revenues supporting it. They are attracting new generation of users. You look at the demographics here, Jeff. This is not, you know, a bunch of forty something pluses here. This is a young generation new creative model and the products on the customer testimonials standing on this stage represent, in my opinion, a modern architecture, a modern practice, modern cloud kind of capabilities. So, you know, Adobe Certainly looking good from this keynote. I'm impressed, you know. Okay, >> good. Line up all the >> days of live cube coverage here in Las Vegas for Doby summit. I'm John for Jeff. Rick, Thanks for watching. We'll be back with a short break