>>and hello, we're back. I've got my panel and we are doing things real time here. So sorry for the delay a few minutes late. So the way let's talk about things, the reason we're here and we're going around the room and introduce everybody. Got three special guests here. I got my evil or my john and the normal And we're going to talk about get ops I called it future office just because I want to think about what's the next thing for that at the end, we're gonna talk about what our ideas for what's next for getups, right? Um, because we're all starting to just get into get ups now. But of course a lot of us are always thinking about what's next? What's better? How can we make this thing better? So we're going to take your questions. That's the reason we're here, is to take your questions and answer them. Or at least the best we can for the next hour. And all right, so let's go around the room and introduce yourself. My name is Brett. I am streaming from Brett from that. From Brett. From Virginia Beach in Virginia beach, Virginia, United States. Um, and I talk about things on the internet, I sell courses on you, to me that talk about Docker and kubernetes Ive or introduce yourself. >>How's it going? Everyone, I'm a software engineer at axel Springer, currently based in Berlin and I happen to be Brett Brett's teaching assistant. >>All right, that's right. We're in, we're in our courses together almost every day. Mm john >>hey everyone, my name is john Harris, I used to work at Dhaka um, I now work at VM ware is a star field engineer. Um, so yeah, >>and normal >>awesome by the way, you are streaming from Brett Brett, >>I answered from breath to breath. >>Um I'm normal method. I'm a distinguished engineer with booz allen and I'm also a doctor captain and it's good to see either in person and it's good to see you again john it's been a little while. >>It has the pre covid times, right? You're up here in Seattle. >>Yeah. It feels, it feels like an eternity ago. >>Yeah, john shirt looks red and reminds me of the Austin T shirt. So I was like, yeah, so we all, we all have like this old limited edition doctor on E. >>T. That's a, that's a classic. >>Yeah, I scored that one last year. Sometimes with these old conference church, you have to like go into people's closets. I'm not saying I did that. Um, but you know, you have to go steal stuff, you to find ways to get the swag >>post post covid. If you ever come to my place, I'm going to have to lock the closets. That >>that's right, That's right. >>So the second I think it was the second floor of the doctor HQ in SAn Francisco was where they kept all the T shirts, just boxes and boxes and boxes floor to ceiling. So every time I went to HQ you just you just as many as you can fit in your luggage. I think I have about 10 of these. You >>bring an extra piece of luggage just for your your shirt shirt grab. Um All right, so I'm going to start scanning questions uh so that you don't have to you can you help you all are welcome to do that. And I'm going to start us off with the topic. Um So let's just define the parameters. Like we can talk about anything devops and here we can go down and plenty of rabbit holes. But the kind of, the goal here is to talk about get ups and get ups if you haven't heard about it is essentially uh using versioning systems like get like we've all been getting used to as developers to track your infrastructure changes, not just your code changes and then automate that with a bunch of tooling so that the robots take over. And essentially you have get as a central source of truth and then get log as a central source of history and then there's a bunch of magic little bits in the middle and then supposedly everything is wonderful. It's all automatic. The reality is is what it's often quite messy, quite tricky to get everything working. And uh the edges of this are not perfect. Um so it is a relatively new thing. It's probably three, maybe four years old as an official thing from. We've uh so we're gonna get into it and I'll let's go around the room and the same word we did before and um not to push on that, put you on the spot or anything. But what is, what is one of the things you either like or either hate about getups um that you've enjoyed either using it or you know, whatever for me. I really, I really love that I can point people to a repo that basically is hopefully if they look at the log a tracking, simplistic tracking of what might have changed in that part of the world or the environment. I remember many years past where, you know, I've had executive or some mid level manager wants to see what the changes were or someone outside my team went to see what we just changed. It was okay, they need access to this system into that dashboard and that spreadsheet and then this thing and it was always so complicated and now in a world where if we're using get up orbit bucket or whatever where you can just say, hey go look at that repo if there was three commits today, probably three changes happened. That's I love that particular part about it. Of course it's always more complicated than that. But um Ive or I know you've been getting into this stuff recently. So um any thoughts? Yeah, I think >>my favorite part about get ops is >>reproducibility. Um >>you know the ability to just test something and get it up and running >>and then just tear it down. >>Uh not >>being worried that how did I configure it the first time? I think that's my favorite part about >>it. I'm changing your background as we do this. >>I was going to say, did you just do it get ups pushed to like change his >>background, just a dialogue that different for that green screen equals false? Uh Change the background. Yeah, I mean, um and I mean I think last year was really my first year of actually using it on anything significant, like a real project. Um so I'm still, I still feel like I'm very new to john you anything. >>Yeah, it's weird getups is that thing which kind of crystallizes maybe better than anything else, the grizzled veteran life cycle of emotions with the technology because I think it's easy to get super excited about something new. And when I first looked into get up, so I think this is even before it was probably called getups, we were looking at like how to use guest source of truth, like everything sounds great, right? You're like, wait, get everyone knows, get gets the source of truth, There's a load of robust tooling. This just makes a sense. If everything dies, we can just apply the get again, that would be great. Um and then you go through like the trough of despair, right? We're like, oh no, none of this works. The application is super stateless if this doesn't work and what do we do with secrets and how do we do this? Like how do we get people access in the right place and then you realize everything is terrible again and then everything it equalizes and you're kind of, I think, you know, it sounds great on paper and they were absolutely fantastic things about it, but I think just having that measured approach to it, like it's, you know, I think when you put it best in the beginning where you do a and then there's a magic and then you get C. Right, like it's the magic, which is >>the magic is the mystery, >>right? >>Magic can be good and bad and in text so >>very much so yeah, so um concurrence with with john and ever uh in terms of what I like about it is the potential to apply it to moving security to left and getting closer to a more stable infrastructures code with respect to the whole entire environment. Um And uh and that reconciliation loop, it reminds me of what, what is old is new again? Right? Well, quote unquote old um in terms of like chef and puppet and that the reconciliation loop applied in a in a more uh in a cleaner interface and and into the infrastructure that we're kind of used to already, once you start really digging into kubernetes what I don't like and just this is in concurrence with the other Panelist is it's relatively new. It has um, so it has a learning curve and it's still being, you know, it's a very active um environment and community and that means that things are changing and constantly and there's like new ways and new patterns as people are exploring how to use it. And I think that trough of despair is typically figuring out incrementally what it actually is doing for you and what it's not going to solve for you, right, john, so like that's that trough of despair for a bit and then you realize, okay, this is where it fits potentially in my architecture and like anything, you have to make that trade off and you have to make that decision and accept the trade offs for that. But I think it has a lot of promise for, for compliance and security and all that good stuff. >>Yeah. It's like it's like the potentials, there's still a lot more potential than there is uh reality right now. I think it's like I feel like we're very early days and the idea of especially when you start getting into tooling that doesn't appreciate getups like you're using to get up to and use something else and that tool has no awareness of the concept so it doesn't flow well with all of the things you're trying to do and get um uh things that aren't state based and all that. So this is going to lead me to our first question from Camden asking dumb questions by the way. No dumb questions here. Um How is get apps? Not just another name for C. D. Anybody want to take that as an answer as a question. How is get up is not just another name for C. D. I have things but we can talk about it. I >>feel like we need victor foster kids. Yeah, sure you would have opinions. Yeah, >>I think it's a very yeah. One person replied said it's a very specific it's an opinionated version of cd. That's a great that's a great answer like that. Yeah. >>It's like an implement. Its it's an implementation of deployment if you want it if you want to use it for that. All right. I realize now it's kind of hard in terms of a physical panel and a virtual panel to figure out who on the panel is gonna, you know, ready to jump in to answer a question. But I'll take it. So um I'll um I'll do my best inner victor and say, you know, it's it's an implementation of C. D. And it's it's a choice right? It's one can just still do docker build and darker pushes and doctor pulls and that's fine. Or use other technologies to deploy containers and pods and change your, your kubernetes infrastructure. But get apps is a different implementation, a different method of doing that same thing at the end of the day. Yeah, >>I like it. I like >>it and I think that goes back to your point about, you know, it's kind of early days still, I think to me what I like about getups in that respect is it's nice to see kubernetes become a platform where people are experimenting with different ways of doing things, right? And so I think that encourages like lots of different patterns and overall that's going to be a good thing for the community because then more, you know, and not everything needs to settle in terms of only one way of doing things, but a lot of different ways of doing things helps people fit, you know, the tooling to their needs, or helps fit kubernetes to their needs, etcetera. Yeah, >>um I agree with that, the, so I'm gonna, since we're getting a load of good questions, so um one of the, one of the, one of the, I want to add to that real quick that one of the uh from the, we've people themselves, because I've had some on the show and one of things that I look at it is distinguishing is with continuous deployment tools, I sort of think that it's almost like previous generation and uh continuous deployment tools can be anything like we would consider Jenkins cd, right, if you if you had an association to a server and do a doctor pull and you know, dr up or dr composed up rather, or if it did a cube control apply uh from you know inside an ssh tunnel or something like that was considered considered C. D. Well get ops is much more rigid I think in terms of um you you need to apply, you have a specific repo that's all about your deployments and because of what tool you're using and that one your commit to a specific repo or in a specific branch that repo depends on how you're setting it up. That is what kicks off a workflow. And then secondly there's an understanding of state. So a lot of these tools now I have uh reconciliation where they they look at the cluster and if things are changing they will actually go back and to get and the robots will take over and will commit that. Hey this thing has changed um and you maybe you human didn't change it, something else might have changed it. So I think that's where getups is approaching it, is that ah we we need to we need to consider more than just a couple of commands that be runnin in a script. Like there needs to be more than that for a getups repo to happen anyway, that's just kind of the the take back to take away I took from a previous conversation with some people um >>we've I don't think that lost, its the last piece is really important, right? I think like for me, C d like Ci cd, they're more philosophical ideas, write a set of principles, right? Like getting an idea or a code change to environments promoting it. It's very kind of pipeline driven um and it's very imperative driven, right? Like our existing CD tools are a lot of the ways that people think about Cd, it would be triggered by an event, maybe a code push and then these other things are happening in sequence until they either fail or pass, right? And then we're done. Getups is very much sitting on the, you know, the reconciliation side, it's changing to a pull based model of reconciliation, right? Like it's very declarative, it's just looking at the state and it's automatically pulling changes when they happen, rather than this imperative trigger driven model. That's not to say that there aren't city tools which we're doing pull based or you can do pull based or get ups is doing anything creatively revolutionary here, but I think that's one of the main things that the ideas that are being introduced into those, like existing C kind of tools and pipelines, um certainly the pull based model and the reconciliation model, which, you know, has a lot in common with kubernetes and how those kind of controllers work, but I think that's the key idea. Yeah. >>Um This is a pretty specific one Tory asks, does anyone have opinions about get ops in a mono repo this is like this is getting into religion a little bit. How many repos are too many repose? How um any thoughts on that? Anyone before I rant, >>go >>for it, go for it? >>Yeah. How I'm using it right now in a monitor repo uh So I'm using GIT hub. Right, so you have what? The workflow and then inside a workflow? Yeah, mo file, I'll >>track the >>actual changes to the workflow itself, as well as a folder, which is basically some sort of service in Amman Arepa, so if any of those things changes, it'll trigger the actual pipeline to run. So that's like the simplest thing that I could figure out how to, you know, get it set up using um get hubs, uh workflow path future. Yeah. And it's worked for me for writing, you know? That's Yeah. >>Yeah, the a lot of these things too, like the mono repo discussion will, it's very tool specific. Each tool has various levels of support for branch branching and different repos and subdirectories are are looking at the defense and to see if there's changes in that specific directory. Yeah. Sorry, um john you're going to say something, >>I was just going to say, I've never really done it, but I imagine the same kind of downsides of mono repo to multiple report would exist there. I mean, you've got the blast radius issues, you've got, you know, how big is the mono repo? Do we have to pull does the tool have to pull that or cashier every time it needs to determine def so what is the support for being able to just look at directories versus you know, I think we can get way down into a deeper conversation. Maybe we'll save it for later on in the conversation about what we're doing. Get up, how do we structure our get reposed? We have super granular repo per environment, Perper out reaper, per cluster repo per whatever or do we have directories per environment or branches per environment? How how is everything organized? I think it's you know, it's going to be one of those, there's never one size fits all. I'll give the class of consultant like it depends answer. Right? >>Yeah, for sure. It's very similar to the code struggle because it depends. >>Right? >>Uh Yeah, it's similar to the to the code problem of teams trying to figure out how many repose for their code. Should they micro service, should they? Semi micro service, macro service. Like I mean, you know because too many repose means you're doing a bunch of repo management, a bunch of changes on your local system, you're constantly get pulling all these different things and uh but if you have one big repo then it's it's a it's a huge monolithic thing that you usually have to deal with. Path based issues of tools that only need to look at a specific directory and um yeah, it's a it's a culture, I feel like yeah, like I keep going back to this, it's a culture thing. Does your what is your team prefer? What do you like? What um what's painful for everyone and who's what's the loudest pain that you need to deal with? Is it is it repo management? That's the pain um or is it uh you know, is that that everyone's in one place and it's really hard to keep too many cooks out of the kitchen, which is a mono repo problem, you know? Um How do we handle security? So this is a great one from Tory again. Another great question back to back. And that's the first time we've done that um security as it pertains to get up to anyone who can commit can change the infrastructure. Yes. >>Yes. So the tooling that you have for your GIT repo and the authentication, authorization and permissions that you apply to the GIT repo using a get server like GIT hub or get lab or whatever your flavor of the day is is going to be how security is handled with respect to changes in your get ups configuration repository. So um that is completely specific to your implementation of that or ones implementation of of how they're handling that. Get repositories that the get ups tooling is looking at. To reconcile changes with respect to the permissions of the for lack of better term robot itself. Right? They get up tooling like flux or Argosy. D Um one kid would would create a user or a service account or uh other kind of authentication measures to limit the permissions for that service account that the Gaddafi's tooling needs to be able to read the repose and and send commits etcetera. So that is well within the realm of what you have already for your for your get your get um repo. Yeah. >>Yeah. A related question is from a g what they like about get apps if done nicely for a newbie it's you can get stuff done easily if you what they dislike about it is when you have too many get repose it becomes just too complicated and I agree. Um was making a joke with a team the other week that you know the developer used to just make one commit and they would pass pass it on to a QA team that would then eventually emerging in the master. But they made the commits to these feature branches or whatever. But now they make a commit, they make a pR there for their code then they go make a PR in the helm chart to update the thing to do that and then they go make a PR in the get ups repeal for Argo. And so we talked about that they're probably like four or five P. R. Is just to get their code in the production. But we were talking about the negative of that but the reality was It's just five or 4 or five prs like it wasn't five different systems that had five different methodologies and tooling and that. So I looked at it I was like well yeah that's kind of a pain in the get sense but you're also dealing with one type. It's a repetitive action but it's it's the one thing I don't have to go to five different systems with five different ways of doing it. And once in the web and one's on the client wants a command line that I don't remember. Um Yeah so it's got pros and cons I think when you >>I think when you get to the scale where those kind of issues are a problem then you're probably at the scale where you can afford to invest some time into automation into that. Right? Like what I've when I've seen this in larger customers or larger organizations if there ever at that stage where okay apps are coming up all the time. You know, there's a 10 X 100 X developer to operations folks who may be creating get repose setting up permissions then that stuff gets automated, right? Like, you know, maybe ticket based systems or whatever. Developers say I need a new app. It templates things or more often using the same model, right of reconciliation and operators and the horrific abuse of cogs that we're seeing in the communities community right now. Um You know, developers can create a crd which just says, hey, I'm creating a new app is called app A and then a controller will pick up that app a definition. It will go create a get a repo Programmatically it will add the right definitely will look up and held up the developers and the permissions that need to be able to get to that repo it will create and template automatically some name space and the clusters that it needs in the environments that it needs, depending on, you know, some metadata it might read. So I think, you know, those are definite problems and they're definitely like a teething, growing pain thing. But once you get to that scale, you kind of need to step back and say, well look, we just need to invest in time into the operational aspect of this and automating this pain away, I think. Yeah, >>yeah. And that ultimately ends in Yeah. Custom tooling, which it's hard to avoid it at scale. I mean, there's there's two, there's almost two conversations here, right. There is what I call the Solo admin Solo devops, I bought that domain Solo devops dot com because, you know, whenever I'm talking to dr khan in the real world, it's like I asked people to raise hands, I don't know how we can raise hands here, but I would ask people to raise hands and see how many of you here are. The sole person responsible for deploying the app that your team makes and like a quarter of the room would raise their hand. So I call that solo devops like those, that person can't make all the custom tooling in the world. So they really need dr like solutions where it's opinionated, the workflow is sort of built in and they don't have to wrangle things together with a bunch of glue, you know, in other words bash. Um and so this kind of comes to a conversation uh starting this question from lee he's asking how do you combine get ops with ci cd, especially the continuous bit. How do you avoid having a human uh sort of the complaint the team I was working with has, how do you avoid a human editing and get committing for every single deploy? They've settled on customized templates and a script for routine updates. So as a seed for this conference, this question I'm gonna ask you all uh instead of that specific question cause it's a little open ended. Um Tell me whether you agree with this. I I kind of look at the image, the image artifact because the doctor image or container image in general is an artifact that I I view it that way and that thing going into the registry with the right label or right part of the label. Um That tag rather not the label but the tag that to me is like one of the great demarche points of, we're kind of done with Ci and we're now into the deployment phase and it doesn't necessarily mean the tooling is a clear cut there, but that artifact being shipped in a specific way or promoted as we sometimes say. Um what do you think? Does anyone have opinions on that? I don't even know if that's the right opinion to have so mhm. >>So um I think what you're, what you're getting at is that get ups, models can trigger off of different events um to trigger the reconciliation loop. And one way to do that is if the image, if it notices a image change in the registry, the other is if there's a commit event on a specific rebo and branch and it's up to, you are up to the person that's implementing their get ups model, what event to trigger there, that reconciliation loop off of, You can do both, you can do one or the other. It also depends on the Templeton engine that you're using on top of um on top of kubernetes, such as helm or um you know, the other ones that are out there or if you're not even doing that, then, you know straight. Yeah, mo um so it kind of just depends, but those are the typically the two options one has and a combination of of those to trigger that event. You can also just trigger it manually, right? You can go into the command line and force a a, you know, a really like a scan or a new reconciliation loop to occur. So it kind of just, I don't want to say this, but it depends on what you're trying to do and what makes sense in your pipeline. Right? So if you're if you're set up where you are tag, if you're doing it based off of image tags, then you probably want to use get ups in a way that you're using the image tags. Right. And the pattern that you've established there, if you're not really doing that and you're more around, like, different branches are mapped to different environments, then triggered off of the correct branch. And that's where the permissions also come into play. Where if you don't want someone to touch production and you've got your getups for your production cluster based off of like uh you know, a main branch, then whoever can push a change to that main branch has the authority to push that change to production. Right? So that's your authentication and permissions um system same for the registry itself. Right. So >>Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, anyone else have any thoughts on that? I was about to go to the next topic, >>I was going to say. I think certain tools dictate the approach, like, if you're using Argosy d it's I think I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only way to use it right now is just through image modification. Like, the manifest changes, it looks at a specific directory and anything changes then it will do its thing. And uh Synchronize the cost there with whatever's and get >>Yeah, flux has both. Yeah, and flux has both. So it it kind of depends. I think you can make our go do that too, but uh this is back to what we were saying in the beginning, uh you know, these things are changing, right? So that might be what it is right now in terms of triggering the reconciliation loops and get ups, tooling, but there might be other events in the future that might trigger it, and it's not completely stand alone because you still need you're tooling to do any kind of testing or whatever you have in terms of like the specific pipeline. So oftentimes you're bolting in getups into some other part of broader Cfd solution. That makes sense. Yeah, >>we've got a lot of questions about secrets or people that are asking about secrets. >>So my my tongue and cheek answered the secrets question was, what's the best practices for kubernetes? Secrets? That's the same thing for secrets with good apps? Uh getups is not last time I checked and last time I was running this stuff get ups is not has nothing to do with secrets in that sense. It's just there to get your stuff running on communities. So, um there's probably a really good session on secrets at dr concept. I >>would agree with you, I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, get off stools, I mean every every project of mine handles secrets differently. Uh huh. And I think I'm not sure if it was even when I was talking to but talking to someone recently that I'm very bullish on get up actions, I love get up actions, it's not great for deployments yet, but we do have this new thing and get hub environments, I think it's called. So it allows me at least the store secrets per environment, which it didn't have the concept of that before, which you know, if you if any of you running kubernetes out there, you typically end up when you start running kubernetes, you end up with more than one kubernetes, like you're going to end up with a lot of clusters at some point, at least many multiple, more than two. Um and so if you're trying to store secret somewhere, you do have and there's a discussion happening in chat right now where people are talking about um sealed secrets which if you haven't heard of that, go look that up and just be versed on what sealed secrets is because it's a it's a fantastic concept for how to store secrets in the public. Um I love it because I'm a big P. K. I nerd but um it's not the only way and it doesn't fit all models. So I have clients that use A W. S. Secrets because they're in A W. S. And then they just have to use the kubernetes external secret. But again like like like normal sand, you know, it's that doesn't really affect get ops, get ops is just applying whatever helm charts or jahmal or images that you're, you're you're deploying, get off. It was more about the approach of when the changes happen and whether it's a push or pull model like we're talking about and you know, >>I would say there's a bunch of prerequisites to get ups secrets being one of them because the risk of you putting a secret into your git repo if you haven't figured out your community secrets architecture and start diving into getups is high and removing secrets from get repose is you know, could be its own industry, right. It's >>a thing, >>how do >>I hide this? How do I obscure this commit that's already now on a dozen machines. >>So there are some prerequisites in terms of when you're ready to adopt get up. So I think is the right way of saying the answer to that secrets being one of them. >>I think the secrets was the thing that made me, you know, like two or three years ago made me kind of see the ah ha moment when it came to get ups which, which was that the premier thing that everyone used to say about get up about why it was great. Was its the single source of truth. There's no state anywhere else. You just need to look at git. Um and then secrets may be realized along with a bunch of other things down the line that is not true and will never be true. So as soon as you can lose the dogmatism about everything is going to be and get it's fantastic. As long as you've understood everything is not going to get. There are things which will absolutely never be and get some tools just don't deal with that. They need to earn their own state, especially in communities, some controls on their own state. You know, cuz sealed secrets and and other projects like SOps and I think there are two or three others. That's a great way of dealing with secrets if you want to keep them in get. But you know, projects like vault more kind of like what I would say, production grade secret strategies. Right? And if you're in AWS or a cloud, you're more likely to be using their secrets. Your secret policy is maybe not dictated by you in large organizations might be dictated by CSO or security or Great. Like I think once if you, if you're trying to adopt getups or you're thinking about it, get the dogmatism of get as a single point of truth out of your mind and think about getups more as a philosophy and a set of best practice principles, then you will be in much better stead, >>right? Yeah. >>People are asking more questions in chat like infrastructure as code plus C d essentially get ups or C I rather, um, these are all great questions and a part of the debate, I'm actually just going to throw up on screen. I'm gonna put this in chat, but this is, this is to me the source, Right? So we worked with when they coined the term. We, a lot of us have been trying to get, if we talk about the history for a minute and then tell me if I'm getting this right. Um, a lot of us were trying to automate all these different parts of the puzzle, but a lot of them, they, some things might have been infrastructure as code. Some things weren't, some things were sort of like settings is coded, like you're going to Jenkins and type in secrets and settings or type in a certain thing in the settings of Jenkins and then that it wasn't really in get and so what we was trying to go for was a way to have almost like eventually a two way state understanding where get might change your infrastructure but then your infrastructure might also change and needs to be reflected in the get if the get is trying to be the single source of truth. Um and like you're saying the reality is that you're never gonna have one repo that has all of your infrastructure in it, like you would have to have, you have to have all your terra form, anything else you're spinning up. Right. Um but anyway, I'm gonna put this link in chat. So this guide actually, uh one of things they talk about is what it's not, so it's, it's kind of great to read through the different requirements and like what I was saying well ago um mhm. Having having ci having infrastructure as code and then trying a little bit of continuous deployment out, it's probably a prerequisite. Forget ops so it's hard to just jump into that when you don't already have infrastructure as code because a machine doing stuff on your behalf, it means that you have to have things documented and somewhere and get repo but let me put this in the in the >>chitty chat, I would like to know if the other panelists agree, but I think get apps is a okay. I would say it's a moderate level, it's not a beginner level communities thing, it's like a moderate level advanced, a little bit more advanced level. Um One can start off using it but you definitely have to have some pre recs in place or some understanding of like a pattern in place. Um So what do the other folks think about that opinion? >>I think if you're if you're trying to use get out before, you know what problem you have, you're probably gonna be in trouble. Right. It's like having a solution to it probably don't have yet. Mhm. Right. I mean if if you're just evil or and you're just typing, keep control apply, you're one person right, Get off. It doesn't seem like a big a big jump, like, I mean it doesn't like why would I do that? I'm just, I'm just gonna inside, it's the type of get commit right, I'm typing Q control apply. But I think one of the rules from we've is none of your developers and none of your admins can have cute control access to the cluster because if you can't, if you do have access and you can just apply something, then that's just infrastructure as code. That's just continuous deployment, that's, that's not really get ops um, getups implies that the only way things get into the cluster is through the get up, get automation that you're using with, you know, flux Argo, we haven't talked about, what's the other one that Victor Farsi talks about, by the way people are asking about victor, because victor would love to talk about this stuff, but he's in my next life, so come back in an hour and a half or whatever and victor is going to be talking about sys, admin list with me. Um >>you gotta ask him nothing but get up questions in the next, >>confuse them, confuse them. But anyway, that, that, that's um, it's hard, it's hard to understand and without having tried it, I think conceptually it's a little challenging >>one thing with getups, especially based off the we've works blog post that you just put up on there. It's an opinionated way of doing something. Uh you know, it's an opinionated way of of delivering changes to an environment to your kubernetes environment. So it's opinionated were often not used to seeing things that are very opinionated in this sense, in the in the ecosystem, but get apps is a opinionated thing. It's it's one way of doing it. Um there are ways to change it and like there are options um like what we were talking about in terms of the events that trigger, but the way that it's structured is an opinion opinionated way both from like a tooling perspective, like using get etcetera, but also from a devops cultural perspective, right? Like you were talking about not having anyone access cube control and changing the cluster directly. That's a philosophical opinion that get ups forces you to adopt otherwise. It kind of breaks the model and um I just I want everyone to just understand that. That is very opinion, anything in that sense. Yeah, >>polygamy is another thing. Infrastructure as code. Um someone's mentioning plummy and chat, I just had actually my life show self plug bread that live go there. I'm on Youtube every week. I did the same thing. These these are my friends um and had palami on two weeks ago uh last week, remember uh and it was in the last couple of weeks and we talked about their infrastructure as code solution. Were actually writing code instead of um oh that's an interesting take on uh developer team sort of owning coding the infrastructure through code rather than Yamil as a data language. I don't really have an opinion on it yet because I haven't used it in production or anything in the real real world, but um, I'm not sure how much they are applying trying to go towards the get up stuff. I will do a plug for Solomon hikes. Who has a, the beginning of the day, it's already happened so you can go back and watch it. It's a, it's a, what's it called? Q. Rethinking application delivery with Q. And build kit. So go look this up. This is the found co founder of Dr and former CTO Solomon hikes at the beginning of the day. He has a tool called dagger. I'm not sure why the title of the talk is delivering with Q. And built it, but the tool is showing off in there for an hour is called dagger. And it's, it's an interesting idea on how to apply a lot of this opinionated automated stuff to uh, to deployment and it's get off space and you use Q language. It's a graph language. I watched most of it and it was a really interesting take. I'm excited to see if that takes off and if they try that because it's another way that you can get a little bit more advanced with your you're get deployments and without having to just stick everything in Yemen, which is kind of what we're in today with helm charts and what not. All right. More questions about secrets, I think. I think we're not going to have a whole lot of more, a lot more about secrets basically. Uh put secrets in your cluster to start with and kubernetes in encrypted, you know, thing. And then, you know, as it gets harder, then you have to find another solution when you have five clusters, you don't wanna have to do it five times. That's when you have to go for Walton A W. S secrets and all >>that. Right? I'm gonna post it note. Yeah. Crm into the cluster. Just kidding. >>Yes, there are recordings of this. Yes, they will be later. Uh, because we're that these are all gonna be on youtube later. Um, yeah, detects secrets cushion saying detect secrets or get Guardian are absolute requirements. I think it's in reference to your secrets comment earlier. Um, Camels asking about Cuban is dropping support for Docker that this is not the place to ask for that, but it, it is uh, basically it's a Nonevent Marantz has actually just created that same plug in available in a different repos. So if you want to keep using Docker and kubernetes, you know, you can do it like it's no big deal. Most of us aren't using doctor in our communities anyway, so we're using like container D or whatever is provided to us by our provider. Um yeah, thank you so much for all these comments. These are great people helping each other and chat. I feel like we're just here to make sure the chats available so people can help each other. >>I feel like I want to pick up on something when you mentioned pollux me, I think there's a um we're talking about getups but I think in the original like the origination of that I guess was deploying applications to clusters right, picking up deployment manifest. But I think with the gloomy and I obviously terra form and things have been around a long time, folks are starting to apply this I think I found one earlier which was like um kub stack the Terror Forms get ups framework. Um but also with the advent of things like cluster A. P. I. Um in the Cuban at the space where you can declare actively build the infrastructure for your clusters and build the cluster right? We're not just talking about deploying applications, the cluster A. P. I will talk to a W. S. Spin up, VPc spin up machines, you know, we'll do the same kind of things that terra form does and and those other tools do I think applying getups principles to the infrastructure spin up right, the proper infrastructure as code stuff, constantly applying Terror form um you know, plans and whatever, constantly applying cluster Api resources spinning up stuff in those clouds. That's a super interesting. Um you know, extension of this area, I'd be curious to see if what the folks think about that. >>Yeah, that's why I picked this topic is one of my three. Uh I got I got to pick the topics. I was like the three things that there like the most bleeding edge exciting. Most people haven't, we haven't basically we haven't figured all this out yet. We as an industry, so um it's I think we're gonna see more ideas on it. Um what's the one with the popsicle as the as the icon victor talks about all the time? It's not it's another getups like tool, but it's um it's getups for you use this kubernetes limit and then we have to look it up, >>You're talking about cross plane. >>So >>my >>wife is over here with the sound effects and the first sound effect of the day that she chooses to use is one. >>All right, can we pick it? Let's let's find another question bret >>I'm searching >>so many of them. All right, so uh I think one really quick one is getups only for kubernetes, I think the main to tooling to tools that we're talking about, our Argosy D and flux and they're mostly geared toward kubernetes deployments but there's a, it seems like they're organized in a way that there's a clean abstraction in with respect to the agent that's doing the deployment and the tooling that that can interact with. So I would imagine that in the future and this might be true already right now that get ups could be applied to other types of deployments at some point in the future. But right now it's mostly focused and treats kubernetes as a first class citizen or the tooling on top of kubernetes, let's say something like how as a first class citizen? Yeah, to Brett, >>to me the field, back to you bret the thing I was looking for is cross plane. So that's another tool. Um Victor has been uh sharing a lot about it in Youtube cross plane and that is basically runs inside a kubernetes, but it handles your other infrastructure besides your app. It allows you to like get ops, you're a W. S stuff by using the kubernetes state engine as a, as a way to manage that. And I have not used it yet, but he does some really great demos on Youtube. So people are liking this idea of get off, so they're trying to figure out how do we, how do we manage state? How do we uh because the probably terra form is that, well, there's many problems, but it's always a lot of problems, but in the get outs world it's not quite the right fit yet, It might be, but you still, it's still largely as expected for people to, you know, like type the command, um, and it keeps state locally the ss, clouds and all that. And but the other thing is I'm I'm now realizing that when I saw the demo from Solomon, I'm going back to the Solomon hikes thing. He was using the demo and he was showing it apply deploying something on S three buckets, employing internet wifi and deploying it on google other things beyond kubernetes and saying that it's all getups approach. So I think we're just at the very beginning of seeing because it all started with kubernetes and now there's a swarm one, you can look up swarm, get office and there's a swarm, I can't take the name of it. Swarm sink I think is what's called swarm sink on git hub, which allows you to do swarm based getups like things. And now we're seeing these other tools coming out. They're saying we're going to try to do the get ups concepts, but not for kubernetes specifically and that's I think, you know, infrastructure as code started with certain areas of the world and then now then now we all just assume that you're going to have an infrastructure as code way of doing whatever that is and I think get off is going to have that same approach where pretty soon, you know, we'll have get apps for all the clouds stuff and it won't just be flexor Argo. And then that's the weird thing is will flex and Argo support all those things or will it just be focused on kubernetes apps? You know, community stuff? >>There's also, I think this is what you're alluding to. There is a trend of using um kubernetes and see rDS to provision and control things that are outside of communities like the cloud service providers services as if they were first class entities within kubernetes so that you can use the kubernetes um focus tooling for things that are not communities through the kubernetes interface communities. Yeah, >>yeah, even criticism. >>Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to say that sounds like cross plane. >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's uh there were, you know, for the last couple of years, it's been flux and are going back and forth. Um they're like frenemies, you know, and they've been going back and forth with iterating on these ideas of how do we manage this complicated thing? That is many kubernetes clusters? Um because like Argo, I don't know if the flux V two can do this, but Argo can manage multiple clusters now from one cluster, so your, you can manage other clusters, technically external things from a single entity. Um Originally flux couldn't do that, but I'm going to say that V two can, I don't actually >>know. Um I think all that is gonna, I think that's going to consolidate in the future. All right. In terms of like the common feature set, what Iver and john what do you think? >>I mean, I think it's already begun, right, I think haven't, didn't they collaborate on a common engine? I don't know whether it's finished yet, but I think they're working towards a common getups engine and then they're just going to layer on features on top. But I think, I mean, I think that's interesting, right, because where it runs and where it interacts with, if we're talking about a pull based model, it shouldn't, it's decentralized to a certain extent, right? We need get and we need the agent which is pulling if we're saying there's something else which is orchestrating something that we start to like fuzzy the model even right. Like is this state living somewhere else, then I think that's just interesting as well. I thought flux was completely decentralized, but I know you install our go somewhere like the cargo has a server as well, but it's been a while since I've looked in depth at them. But I think the, you know, does that muddy the agent only pull model? >>I'm reading a >>Yeah, I would say that there's like a process of natural selection going on as as the C. N. C. F. Landscape evolves and grows bigger and a lot of divide and conquer right now. But I think as certain things kind of get more prominent >>and popular, I think >>it starts to trend and it inspires other things and then it starts to aggregate and you know, kind of get back into like a unified kind of like core. Maybe like for instance, cross plane, I feel like it shouldn't even really exist. It should be, it like it's a communities add on, but it should be built in, it should be built into kubernetes, like why doesn't this exist already >>for like controlling a cloud? >>Yeah, like just, you know, having this interface with the cloud provider and be able to Yeah, >>exactly. Yeah, and it kinda, you're right. That kinda happens because you do, I mean when you start talking about storage providers and networking providers was very specific implementations of operators or just individual controllers that do operate and control other resources in the cloud, but certainly not universally right. Not every feature of AWS is available to kubernetes out of the box. Um and you know, it, one of the challenges across plane is you gotta have kubernetes before you can deploy kubernetes. Like there's a chicken and egg issue there where if you're going to use, if you're going to use our cross plane for your other infrastructure, but it's gotta, but it has to run on kubernetes who creates that first kubernetes in order for you to put that on there. And victor talks about one of his videos, the same problem with flux and Argo where like Argo, you can't deploy Argo itself with getups. There has to be that initial, I did a thing with, I'm a human and I typed in some commands on a server and things happened but they don't really have an easy deployment method for getting our go up and running using simply nothing but a get push to an existing system. There's something like that. So it's a it's an interesting problem of day one infrastructure which is again only day one, I think data is way more interesting and hard, but um how can we spend these things up if they're all depending on each other and who is the first one to get started? >>I mean it's true of everything though, I mean at the end of that you need some kind of big bang kind of function too, you know, I started running start everything I >>think without going over that, sorry, without going off on a tangent. I was, I was gonna say there's a, if folks have heard of kind which is kubernetes and Docker, which is a mini kubernetes cluster, you can run in a Docker container or each container will run as a as a node. Um you know, that's been a really good way to spin up things like clusters. KPI because they boot strap a local kind, install the manifests, it will go and spin up a fully sized cluster, it will transfer its resources over there and then it will die itself. Right? So that, that's kind of bootstrapping itself. And I think a couple of folks in the community, Jason to Tiberius, I think he works for Quinyx metal um has, has experimented with like an even more minimal just Api server, so we're really just leveraging the kubernetes ideas of like a reconciliation loop and a controller. We just need something to bootstrap with those C R D s and get something going and then go away again. So I think that's gonna be a pattern that comes up kind of more and more >>Yeah, for sure. Um, and uh, the next, next quick answer to the question, Angel asked what your thoughts on getups being a niche to get or versus others vcs tools? Well, if I knew anyone who is using anything other than get, I would say no, you know, get ops is a horrible name. It should just be CVS office, but that doesn't or vcs ops or whatever like that, but that doesn't roll off the tongue. So someone had to come up with the get ups phrase. Um but absolutely, it's all about version control solutions used for infrastructure, not code. Um might get doctor asks a great question, we're not gonna have time for it, but maybe people can reply and chat with what they think but about infrastructure and code, the lines being blurred and that do develop, how much of infrastructure does developer do developers need to know? Essentially, they're having to know all the things. Um so unfortunately we've had way more questions like every panel here today with all the great community, we've got way more questions we can handle in this time. So we're gonna have to wrap it up and say goodbye. Go to the next live panel. I believe the next one is um on developer, developer specific setups that's gonna be peter running that panel. Something about development in containers and I'm sure it's gonna be great. Just like this one. So let's go around the room where can people find you on the internet? I'm at Brett fisher on twitter. That's where you can usually find me most days you are? >>Yeah, I'm on twitter to um, I'll put it in the chat. It's kind of confusing because the TSR seven. >>Okay. Yeah, that's right. You can't just say it. You can also look at the blow of the video and like our faces are there and if you click on them, it tells you our twitter in Arlington and stuff, john >>John Harris 85, pretty much everywhere. Get hub Twitter slack, etc. >>Yeah >>and normal, normal faults or just, you know, living on Youtube live with Brett. >>Yeah, we're all on the twitter so go check us out there and thank you so much for joining. Uh thank you so much to you all for being here. I really appreciate you taking time in your busy schedule to join me for a little chit chat. Um Yes, all the, all the cheers, yes. >>And I think this kid apps loop has been declarative lee reconciled. >>Yeah, there we go. And with that ladies and gentlemen, uh bid you would do, we will see you in the next, next round coming up next with Peter >>bye.

>>Hello everybody. And welcome back. Wow. What a Docker con we've been gone all day. There's so many great breakout sessions, live panels. How many you just came off a live panel. >>He did. It was great. It was awesome. >>So I'm Peter McKie, head of developer relations and we have Brett Fisher hammer one on everybody just introduced herself. We have a new guest here. I'm not sure if people know who you are. Uh, Scott, maybe if you can introduce yourself. Hello? Hello. Hello? Is this Mike? All right. Awesome. So I thought, well cool. What a long day. I think we had some really awesome talks. Of course. Um, it was hard to jump around right. And see everything. So, um, so I missed a lot, but I got to see some great talks. I love the Kubernetes talk. The, the, the, the minimal things you need to know from Kubernetes from Elton, which was fantastic. Yeah. I really loved. And the M one talk from tonus man. I'm super excited about my. >>Yeah, I'm super excited, but I didn't get the Mac until I knew that Docker would support containers on it. There you go. >>There you go. Everybody should have one. Yep. Yep. So you said we were running windows. It's just a personal, personal preference. Okay. So I thought, I thought we could talk about maybe reminisce a little bit, but uh, you know, Scott has the shirt on there from 14, but I doubt that's the first DockerCon you have ever been to Scott? Is it the first, first? Yeah, that was the first one we ever held. So first one we ever held was, uh, June, 2014. And so it was about what, 15 months after Docker was opensource. And we had 300 people all crammed in a little room in a hotel in San Francisco. Right. And we had Lego whale schwag and, you know, talks. And it w what's that, that was the first one. Yeah, it was the first one. And then after that, I remember I wasn't there, but in, um, was it an Amsterdam where the video, the great video where the, the, the, the crowd, we got to play a video game and they were kicking around the, the, uh, beach balls and it would move, moved a little arcade character. Brett, do you remember this? And, and you had to move with the crowd. It was, it looked like a nightclub. It was closed. >>That was fantastic. Like those intros were some of the most, it was like being in a nightclub when, uh, a new band debuted or >>All right. Well, how am I, w is this your, this is your first Docker con, correct? >>It is. I'm like, I feel like I'm just a new, but, uh, I had a great time, like I said, before, kid in the candy store, I learned so much, especially the panels, even from our Docker individuals. So that was, it was great. I I'm enthralled, I'm excited. I'm going to watch all the recordings afterwards as everyone else will be able to do too, since we got that question a lot, but yeah. Super exciting for me. >>Yeah. You might have to wait until tomorrow because the adrenaline is just going to just going to drop. You might just sleep, sleep, and then, but then you can watch them watch all the replays tomorrow. I know that's what I'm going to do, catch up on things sleep with. But, um, I have some that talk about, and so some of the highlights that I was interested in, maybe some of them, you know, might not be at the top of everybody's mind, but the verified publisher program. I mean, that, that is it's incredible, right. That's just about all the security, uh, supply chain security problems that are happening. Right. That's a huge, huge win for us. I think Scott of having, uh, partners around, uh, around containers, around software, joining us to, and we verify their content, uh, just building trust, more trust with the community, right? >>Yeah. I mean, I mean, you saw this theme throughout the conference, right? Is that the, the security theme kind of ran deep and you saw a lot of talks and panels. And so this is just kind of playing into that where it's like, how do you, how do you start with content you trust as developers updated or their put their apps on it and then hand it off to ops and then deploy from there. And so, um, the verified publisher program is just another layer if you will, of providing kind of trusted content that, that people want to use and want to use in their application. So yeah, no, I think it's a great ad and it's very consistent with what you see kind of the conversation, the community that we saw throughout the day. Yeah, absolutely. But w what was the highlight for you for today? Put you on the spot a little bit. >>Um, again, hanging out, getting to hang out with my friends again and meet new people like that was basically, you know, at Docker con uh, I have so many memories. In fact, uh, we were earlier today on Twitter. We were throwing up some old pictures of like the original captains, uh, gathering in Seattle. And we actually got to be captains on little boats. They get, they, they put us in boats, we didn't have any training and we got to drive them around in a, in a lake. And it was hilarious. Um, and, and having those memories and then re reliving them with people that were there or people that were, um, a part of that early days of Docker. And that's one of my favorite parts of Docker course, the learning is fantastic, the new features, but yeah, that, that those memories >>Let, let, let me lean into Brett it's point. Like, like, so we're all, we're all nerds and introverts, right? So like, we get excited by the tech and the bits and the bites, but Brett's point about like the community and how, like it's just grown over the years. And it's always been kind of welcoming to newcomers as well as providing forums for cutting edge discussions as well. Like that, that is one of those things. I think we, we often don't fully appreciate no fully celebrate. And so today was a great example of just celebrating that and putting that front and center of the whole conversations for everything. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent in the, all of the community leaders, the community, the rooms that we had. I mean, they were, we just chatting before we came online about the Brazil, uh, community room there they're just trucking along, keep going. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're just, um, yeah, it amazes me every, every time and the captains program. Right. I mean, everybody on there is they're experts in what they do, but not a whole lot of egos. I mean, it just super nice people always willing to help. I mean, the whole community is like that in my opinion, for sure. Yeah. Awesome. >>Just a couple of highlights that I wanted to share if I could, what was your favorite? Um, you know, my favorite, this is going to sound super geeky. It was the people talked about documentation. And so I just wanted to do a call out to OSHA who does such a great job on our documentation and that as a developer, I mean, documentation was a very important part of what I needed to do. It's like a critical tool for me, and that we have that on the program was great, but of course, verified publisher program I've been working closely on that. That has been great. We have some great press releases that have gone out from our partners. So I encourage you to check that out. I wanted to share some stats if that's okay. I think attendees would be very interested. We have over 79,000 people who signed up for DockerCon. >>So, uh, that's a great number that exceeds last year's number, I believe. And, uh, we had the, the sound right. And then we had about 23,000, um, attendees during the, the day today, which is, which is also incredible. And we're still crunching those numbers, but it's wonderful. And then the, GoFund me, we're sitting at about a little over a thousand dollars. So, you know, DockerCon, doesn't end after this. There's still recordings and presentations you can look at and the GoFund me will still be up for a while. So I encourage you to, to donate for that. But those are just some interesting stats. >>Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's amazing. The numbers that, that happened. And again, I think it's because of the community for real, there's just so many great folks. Yeah. I mean, the chat is just on fire, right. Everybody wants to engage so much. It just flies by right. When you see it, right. You see folks waking up at 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM to participate, and it's not, you know, part of it's for the content, but, but a lot of it is the community because they know they're going to find folks willing to answer questions, willing to share. And, and you know, how often do you experience that in tech communities? And so I think that's what makes Docker, um, special. There's a lot of great communities out there, but the doc community is really special in that sense of like, like you can wait in, you can be a newbie, you can be an expert and there's a place for you, right. >>There's a place for you to share. There's a place for you to learn. And there's always something to learn. There's always something you can share with someone else. And I think that's something that we all should like celebrate, but also work hard and be deliberate to kind of, kind of preserve right. And, and protect as we grow this to like 80,000 this year, a hundred thousand next year, 200,000 million after that, right? Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's important to stay authentic and true to our roots for sure. And I think that's, I mean, it's one of the biggest reasons I am here at Dockers because of the community. The tools are awesome too. Uh, you know, I'm a big fan for sure. And that's what drew me in, but I stay before the people, one that I work with and to the, the broader community, I think it's one of the best in the industry. >>I possibly could be a little biased, but I truly believe that it's okay to, you're a lot of advice. What do you hear in the chat? Yeah. Yeah. You got one, one 30 in the morning and the UK two 25 in the morning. Where's Tony Switzerland. So yeah. That's great. Philippines. Yeah. Yeah. Jacob Howard was on my, uh, on my panel for, uh, development dev containers. Right. He's in Ukraine and he's like, yeah, Nope, no problem. I'll wake up. I'd love to be on. Right. It's it's amazing. Yeah. Okay. What did we, and this might be, I risk, uh, not thinking too far in the future, but you know, you know, sitting in America, looking at COVID right. I think we're starting to come out of it a little bit. Uh, the rest of the world is, you know, still struggling a bit, but, um, yeah. >>Be interesting. Let's say everything goes well. Right. Hi, some kind of hybrid, um, events seems interesting to me, um, possibly some local events that, you know, these communities are coming together, live to watch and to also do their thing. I don't know. I don't know anybody's thoughts about, um, you know, what a hybrid model looks like next year or maybe a year and a half. I don't, I don't know, but I just, no, Peter, I think you're spot on. And that's, that's the topic of the moment, right? It's like, how do you preserve the, the wonderful reach and accessibility that we're seeing today? Right. And last year with the virtual conferences, but we also know that like the face to face in person, our IRL conferences also have a lot of value. Right. So how do you, how do you blend the two of those and still have a great experience, honestly, like community, like give us your feedback, give us your ideas. >>Like we're, we're right in the middle of figuring out what we do for the next 12 months, once it's safe to meet face to face. Right. That's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, you can't beat the power of sitting down beside someone, like you mentioned earlier, Scott, where a lot of us are introverts and, um, you know, so the screen in front of us is a little bit hard, but I, those connections you make in the hallways after, after the talks in, in the hotel lobby, I mean, white boarding on a, on a yeah. Like it's, it's invaluable, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, awesome. Brett time-check we're where are we at? Here? We are at time. Okay. It felt like that. Oh man. Oh, bummer. Well it's okay. What a great day. Goodbye. >>See you later. Goodbye. Yeah. Well, thanks guys for jumping on here at the end and with everybody, I really appreciate it. And uh, thank you to the Docker community, all the speakers, all the panelists, all the keynote speakers, everybody behind the scenes did a phenomenal job. Um, I I'm super excited to be part of this team and I totally look forward to being able to see everybody in person. And, uh, yeah, I'll shut up and let anybody else close out. I don't want to be the last one, but, uh, well, no. Well done Peter. Well done Brett, and look, Dr. Communities is what makes us, makes us strong, makes it work. And through trials like COVID and other challenges of last year, the community held strong, right? And so let's all respect that let's cherish that let's protect that. And like, let's look forward in the next 12 months, have a great 12 months and figure out what DockerCon 20, 22 looks like the conclude, all these great voices have as much interactivity, whether it's on-prem, whether it's virtual, whether it's hybrid and just want to say thank you to community. Thank you. The sponsors. Thank you. The Docker team who went above and beyond to make this happen. Thank you. The Docker, captains and the community behind the scenes. A phenomenal event. And just want to thank everyone so much. Yeah. Yep. All right. Well, that'll wrap it up. Thanks everybody. We'll see you we'll see you soon. Awesome. All right. Thanks everyone, doctor

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Docker Con Live 2020, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back to the DockerCon studio headquarters and your hosts, Jenny Burcio and myself John Furrier. @Furrier on Twitter if you want to tweet me anything and @DockerCon as well share what you're thinking. Great keynote there from Scott CEO, Jenny, demo, DockerCon jobs, some highlights there from Scott. Yeah, lovely intro, sorry about to do the keynote. The little green room comes on makes it human. We're all trying to meet >> Its certainly the reality of what we are all dealing with right now. I had to ask my kids to leave though or they would crash the whole stream. But yes, we have you know, we have a great community, large community gathered here today and we do want to take the opportunity for those that are looking for jobs or hiring to share with the #DockerCon jobs. In addition, we want to support direct health care workers. And Brett Fisher and the captains will be running all day charity stream on the captain's channel. Go there and you'll get the link to donate to directRelief.org, which is a California based nonprofit delivering aid and supporting health care workers globally with response to the COVID-19 crisis. >> Okay, if you're jumping into the stream, I'm John Furrier with Jenny, we'll be your hosts all day today, throughout Docker con, it's a packed house of great content, you have a mainstream, theCUBE, which is the mainstream that will be promoting a lot of cube interviews, but check out the 40 plus sessions underneath in the interactive calendar on Dockercon.com site. Check it out, they're going to be live on a clock. So if you want to participate in real time in the chat, jump into your session on the track of your choice and participate with the folks in their chatting. If you miss it, it's going to go right on demand right after sort of all content will be immediately be available. So make sure you check it out. Docker selfie is a hashtag take a selfie, share it. Docker, #Docker jobs. If you're looking for a job or have openings, please share with the community and of course, give us feedback on what you can do. We got James governor of the keynote coming up next. He's with red monk, not afraid to share his opinion on open source on what companies should be doing. And also the evolution of this Cambrian explosion of apps that are going to be coming as we come out of this post pandemic world. A lot of people are thinking about this the crisis and following through so you know, stay with us, for more and more coverage, Jenny favorite sessions on your mind for people to pay attention to that they should they should look >> First I'm going to address a few things that continue to come up in the chat. Sessions are recorded especially breakout sessions after they play live and the speakers in chat with you. Those go on demand they are recorded, you will be able to access them. Also, if the screen is too small, there is the button to expand full screen and different quality levels for the video that you can choose on your end. All the breakout sessions also have closed captioning. So please, if you would like to read along, turn that on, so you can stay with the sessions. We have some great sessions kicking off right at 10:00 a.m. Getting started with Docker. We have a full track really in the how to enhance on that you should check out devs in action, hear what other people are doing. And then of course, our sponsors are delivering great content to you all day long. >> Tons of content, it's all available, they'll always be up always on a large scale. Thanks for watching. Now we got James Governor, the keynote. He's with red McDonald's firm, he's been tracking open source for many generations. He's been doing amazing work, watch his great keynote. I'm going to be interviewing him live right after so stay with us and enjoy the rest of the day. We'll see you back shortly. (upbeat music)

>>From around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of Docker con live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >>Okay, everyone. Welcome back. We're in between segments, we just had Sydney from engine on Jenny, Peter. We're getting down to the last stretch. So our last little segment, before we go to the full wrap up where Jenny, you're going to give away the awards, Peter going to give it away. The awards for the captains, the community. How are you guys feeling? >>Right? Um, I'm feeling great. Peter, how about you? >>Awesome. It's been, it's been fun. Well, Peter, your internet celebrity. Now I hear, I don't know. Is there a special tweet we want to show? I think so. Okay. You see that tweet? It says you're internet famous. Your mom and dad are watching your presentation. Jenny, can you read that? Yeah. >>Yeah. And to be fair, right? They didn't tweet it. They, uh, they watched either session and, and joined and typed in the comments, even though, uh, they had to ask if he was speaking English. Cause they didn't understand anything. He was saying. >>I saw in the chat, I saw my dad's name go by and just, >>I feed her, but wait a minute. And then my wife >>Came in later, said, yeah, your mom and dad are watching your talk. Do we, do we ever stop parenting? >>I don't. Well, I had the opposite effect. I was in one of the sessions and I see a great comment. I'm like, who wrote this? It's my son, Alec farrier, like son, get out of the chat. He said, it's a dope. He said, it's a dope session. It could have been worse. Went in totally random. So it was good. Just look at it, which everywhere the cube and dr. Khan, what a great, uh, no boundaries, age geography has been. I'm really blown away guys. I really gotta say I'm super impressed with the community content program you put together. It's been so much fun. I learned so much. And so appreciate it. Thank you. >>Oh, thank you. I have to agree. Uh, Amanda silver said earlier that coding is the, and you know, Docker con is a team sport too. Uh, I have to take some time to think all the people, uh, that have participated in helped make this event so great. And we'll definitely do it again as we give out the community awards at the end. Okay. I guess 40 minutes from now, but thank you to the doctor theme. Um, many of them have been awakened for hours and hours, hours helping engage and have a great time. Thank you. Okay. Okay. An awesome platform. Rocks scheduling is next level. Um, and the captains, right? I don't know if anyone's had the chance that's watching to go check out the captain stream, especially Brett Fisher. Who's been on all day and he's been so involved in helping us plan to make sure that this is a conversation and not a large webinar. Right. Um, and then our sponsors, we could not have done this without our sponsors. They've been delivering great talks. They're all on demand, uh, except for the one coming up. So make sure to catch those. They'll have giveaways as well, um, that you can, that you can join into two more speakers. You've done awesome, uh, content and production. And then of course the thoughtfulness of the community, right. Thank you for bringing it here today, around the world. >>That's awesome. And I always just say the content presentations were really, really good. The graphics there's templates, but the work that was put into the video and the demos really just next level, as you said. So really just great. I mean, that makes the conference is the presentation. So those talks were engaging. Um, the comments were awesome. Again, I learned a ton and I love love when it's dynamic like that. Uh, Peter, you gotta be psyched developer relations, any, any new insights on the, uh, from the devs? >>Oh, it was great. Great talks. A lot of great. And I was really, really surprised with the chat that the interaction was tremendous. Uh, and I can't believe I used tremendous, but we'll just skip that anyways. Um, but also check out, uh, hashtag Docker con jobs. If you're looking for a job or if you have openings, please, please, uh, hashtag that in your, in your tweets, um, want to help the community out as much as possible. There's a ton of work out there. Just gotta help connect everybody and love to be part of that for sure. >>Yeah. Just so you know, in case you missed the Justin Warren who was live said on live cube, Docker TV, that if he gets 500 upvotes on Linux for Docker, desktop, I think it was. Or was it hub? Might've been desktop. I think he'll triage it out. So there it is. >>All right. I hope the internet heard that cause that's a popular one for sure. Yeah. >>He was on the record and he leaned in on that too. He said it like that. So he meant cool. Any other, uh, shout outs? I mean, I thought Brad was great. Um, the, his, uh, posse, uh, captains were amazing. Um, good feedback there. So gruesome some great chit chatter on that. Um, I didn't have a chance to peek into the session because we're hosting these mainstreams, but yeah. What are you hearing on the captains? >>Uh, tons of knowledge being dropped on that channel for sure. And really great in depth conversations there, uh, answering questions, interacting with the audience. Uh, and you know, a lot of these captains are teachers, uh, as their, as their day job. And a lot of them have, uh, fabulous Docker and Kubernetes content and are running sales right now. So if you do want learn more, if you like, what you heard today, definitely check out right? The horses are on sale this week or under $10, a huge investment in your future. And then Manning books is also running a promotion, a DTW Docker 20 for 40% off their content and a dr. Popkin Elton Stoneman, Jeff Nicola they'll have content there as well. And then Nigel, uh, is, is, has a number of training, uh, courses and, and books as well to check out. Um, and then the captains are running a charity stream. Awesome. People have been donating all day. It's been awesome. Uh, Docker's going to make sure that we reach our $10,000 goal. They wanted to announce that as well. >>I noticed cockroach labs had a similar thing for women for coding. They had another kind of virtual bag swipe. So check them out. They're donating cash as well to women who code. Okay. >>Right. >>Which is very cool. Um, anything else that we missed? Swag giveaways? >>I have one little, um, little comment, a little secret. So I don't know if anybody's caught it yet, Jenny, but if you go back and watch the, the, uh, you know, with Scott, there might be a surprise in there and anybody that finds it first and tweets me might have something for you. >>So Easter egg in there. Is there something going on there? >>I went on, I don't know. I'm just, just saying, >>Okay. All right. Check out the keynote. That was a pro tip right there for everyone's watching. So if you're watching this stream right now, as we get into our awesome next segment, which is going to be really one of my favorites, the children's cancer Institute, this was not only a moving segment from an impact standpoint, but talking about the people that interns and young developers really solving a big problem with Docker, this is a really high impact statement. So that segment, so, so watch it guys. Thanks so much. We'll see. On the wrap up after this next segment, of course, does the catalog of content in the schedule when it's not streaming, it becomes a catalog. So if you're watching it, check out all the sessions, we'll see you in the wrap up.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon Live 2020. Brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay Jenny, great to see you again. >> Good to see you. >> James Governor, nail on the Keynote there. Chat was phenomenal. That was pre-recorded but James is also in the chat stream. A lot of good conversations. That hit home for me that keynote. One, because memory lane was going down right into the 80s when it was a revolution. And we got him in the green room here. James Governor, welcome. >> James is here, hi James. >> Here we go. >> Fresh off the keynote. >> It's always a revolution. (John laughs) >> Well, in the 80s, I used to love your talk. A couple of key points I want to share and get your thoughts on was just to some highlights for the crowd is one, you walk through. Some of the key inflection points that I think were instrumental and probably some other ones depending on your perspective of where you were in the industry at that time. Whether you were a systems programmer or a networking guy, there was a proprietary world and it was a revolution back then. And UNIX was owned by AT&T if no one remembers. You couldn't even use the word. You had to trade market. So we actually had to call it XINU which is UNIX spelled backwards in all the text and whatnot. And even open source software freeware was kind of illegal. MIT did some work, Northeastern and Berkeley and other schools. It was radical back then so-- >> Yeah, we've come a long way for sure. I think that for me that was one of the things that I wanted to really point to in the keynote was that yes we have definitely come a long way and development culture is about open culture. >> I think the thing that I like to point out especially hate to sound like I'm old but I am. But I lived through that and the younger generation coming and have all these new tools. And I got to say not that I walked through to school in the snow with no shoes on but it's a pretty cool developer environment now. But remember things were proprietary back then. If you start to see the tea leaves now, I look at the world, you see these silos. You see silos that's kind of, they're not nestle proprietary but they might necessarily be open. So you kind of have a glimpse of open source on these projects and these companies. Whether they're tech companies, it feels open but it might not be. It could be walled garden. It could be data being hoarded. So as data opens up, this is interesting to me because I want to get your thoughts on this because in a way it feels proprietary but technically it's not proprietary. What's your thoughts on this? Because this is going to be the next 20 years of evolution. What's your thoughts? >> I think the productivity wins. Whoever packages technology in a way that makes it most productive for people. That's what wins. And open source, what's productive. It is very accessible. It enabled new waves. Get installed and you've got a package from... You got access to just a world of open-source. A world of software that was a big revolution. And I guess the cloud sort of came next and I think that's been one of the big shifts. You talk about proprietary. What matters is how easy you make things to people to do their work. And in that regard, obviously Amazon is in fact a bigger distribution network. Makes technology super consumable by so many people. I guess I would say that open is good and important but it's not the only thing. As you say, data is a lock-in and it's right and people are choosing services that make them productive. Nobody worries about whether Amazon Lambda is proprietary. They just know that they can build companies or businesses or business processes on it. >> You know it's interesting back in the day just to kind of segue with the next topic. We were fighting proprietary operating systems, UNIX and others. We're also fighting for proprietary Network protocol stacks. SNA was owned by IBM. DECnet was digital, the number one network. And then TCP/IP and OpenSan's interconnect came out. That's the OSI model for us old ones. That set the table. That changed the face of everything. It really enabled a lot. So when I see containers, what Docker did early on the pioneering phases of Docker containers, it unleashed a new reality of coolness and scale and capabilities. And then in comes Kubernetes and in comes micro services. So this path is showing some real strength for new kinds of capabilities. So how does a developer navigate all this because data lock-in does it a data plane seems to be a control point. What are we fighting now in your opinion? shouldn't say we're fighting but what are we trying to avoid if operating systems was for closing opportunities and network protocol stacks before closing in the past? What do you see as barriers that need to be broken down in the open source world around going down this great path of micro services, decomposed applications, highly cohesive architectures? >> Honestly there's enough work to be getting on with without like fighting someone in that regard. I mean we're fighting against technical debt. I just don't think that people are serrated about fighting against proprietary anymore. I think that's less than a concern. Open-source technology is great. It's how most work gets done in our industry today. So you mentioned Kubernetes and certainly Docker. Though we did a phenomenal job of packaging up and experience that map to see CICD. That map to the developer workplace people like do. Phenomenal job and I think that for me at least when I look at where we are as an industry, it's all about productivity. So there are plenty of interesting new platforms. I think in my keynote, that's my question. I'm less interested in microservices than I am in distributed work. I'm interested in one of the tools that are going to enable us to become more productive, solve more problems, build more applications and get better at building software. So I think that's my sort of focus. There will always be lock-in. And I think you will also have technologies mitigate against that. I mean clear messages today from Docker about supporting multiple clouds. For a while at least multiclouds seem like something only the kind waivers were interested in but increasingly we're seeing organizations where that is definitely part of how they're using the cloud. And again I think very often it's within specific areas. And so we see organizations that are using particular clouds for different things. And we'll see more of that. >> And the productivity. I love the passion, love that in the keynote. That was loud and clear. Two key points I want to get your reaction on that. You mentioned one was inclusion. Including more people, not seeing news. It's kind of imperative. And also virtual work environments, virtual events. You kind of made a highlight there. So again people are distributed remote first. It's an opportunity to be productive. Can you share your thoughts on those two points? One is, as we're distributed, that's going to open the aperture of more engagement. More people coming in. So code of conduct not as a file you must read or some rule. Culturally embracing a code of conduct. And then also, virtual events, virtual groups convening like we're doing here. >> Yeah I mean for me at least Allison McMillan from github and she just gave such a great demo at the recent sunlight event where she finished and she was like, it was all about, I want to be able to put the kids to bed for a nap and then go code. And I think that's sort of thinking people band around the phrase ruling this together but I mean certainly parenting is a team sport. But I think it's interesting we're not welcome. It was interesting that was looking at the chat, going through, I was being accused of being woke. I was being accused of being a social justice warrior. But look at the math. The graph is pretty clear. Women are not welcomed in tech. And that means we're wasting 50% of available resource to us. And we're treating people like shit. So I thought I underplayed that in the talk actually. Something like, "Oh, why is he complaining about Linus?" Well, the fact is that Linus himself admitted he needed to change his persona in order to just be more modern and welcoming in terms of building software and building communities. So look we've got people from around the world. Different cultural norms. All of the women I know who work in tech suffer so much from effectively daily harassment. Their bonafides are challenged. These are things that we need to change because women are brilliant. I'm not letting you signaling or maybe I am. The fact is that women are amazing at software and we do a terrible job of supporting them. So women of other nationalities, we're not going to be traveling as much. I think you can also grow. No we can't keep flying around as much. Make an industry where single parents can participate more effectively. Where we could take advantage of that. There're 200 million people in Nigeria. That hunger to engage. We won't even give them a visa and then we may not be treating them right. I just think we need an industry reset. I think from a we need to travel less. We need to do better work. And we need to be more welcoming in order that that could be the case. >> Yeah, there's no doubt a reset is here and you look at the COVID crisis is forcing that function there because one, people are resetting and reinventing and trying to figure out a growth strategy. Whether it's a business or teams. And what's interesting is new roles and new responsibilities is going to emerge and I think you're right about the women in tech. I completely agree and have evidence myself and reported on it ad nauseam. But the thing is data trumps opinion. And the data is clear on this issue. So if anyone will call you a social justice warrior I just say pound sand and tell them that go on their way. And just look at the data and clear. And also the field is getting wider. When I was in computer science major back in the day, it was male-dominated yes but it was very narrow. Wasn't as broad as it is now. You can do things so much more and in fact in Kelsey Hightower's talk, he talks to persona developers. The ones that love to learn and ones that don't want to learn anything. Just want to code and do their thing. And ones that care about just app development and ones that just want to get in and sling k-8 around like it's nobody's business or work with APIs, work with infrastructure. Some just want to write code. So there's more and more surface area in computer science and coding. Or not even computer science, it's just coding, developing. >> Well, I mean it's a bigger industry. We've got clearly all sorts of challenges that need to be solved. And the services that we've got available are incredible. I mean if you look at the work of companies like Netlify in terms of developer experience. You look at the emergence of JamStack and the productivity that we're seeing there, it's a really exciting time in the industry. >> No doubt about that. >> And as I say I mean it's an exciting time. It's a scary time. But I think that we're moving to a world of more distributed work. And that's my point about open source and working on code bases from different places and what the CapCloud can enable. We can work in a different way and we don't all need to be in San Francisco, London, or Berlin as I said in the Keynote. >> I love the vision there and the passion. I totally agree with it. I think that's a whole another distributed paradigm that's going to move up the stack if you will and software. I think it's going to be codified in cloud native and cloud scale creates new services. I mean it's the virtual world. You mentioned virtual events. Groups convening like the 67,000 people coming together virtually here at DockerCon. Large, small one-on-ones group dynamics are a piece of it. So share your thoughts on virtual events and certainly it's people are now just kicking the tires, learning. You do a zoom, you do a livestream. You do some chat. It's going to evolve and I think it's going to look more like a CICD pipeline and anything else. As you start to bring media together, we get 43 sessions here. Why not make it a hundred sessions? So I think this is going to be one of those learning environments where it's not linear, it's different. What's your vision of all this if you had to give advice for the folks out there? Not event plans, with people who want to gather groups and be productive. What's your thinking on this? >> Well, it sort of has to happen. I mean there are a lot of people doing good work in this regard. Patrick Dubois, founder of DevOps days. He's doing some brilliant work delineating. Just what are all the different platforms? What does the streaming platform look like that you can use? Obviously you've got one here with theCUBE. Yeah, I mean I think the numbers are pretty clear. I mean Microsoft Build had 245,000 registered attendees and I think something that might have been to begin. The patterns are slightly different. It's not like they're going to be there the whole time but the opportunity to meet people where they are, I think is something that we shouldn't ignore. Particularly in a world not everyone again has the privilege of being able to travel. You're in a different country or as I say perhaps your life circumstances mean you can't travel. From an accessibility perspective, clearly virtual events offer an opportunity that we haven't fully nailed. I think Microsoft performance in this regard has been super interesting. They were already moving that way and Kobe just slammed it up to another level. What they did with Build recently was actually, I mean they're a media company, right? But certainly developed a focused media company. So I think you'll be okay. You're about the business of software John. Don't worry Microsoft don't give you some space there. (John and James laughing) We're under the radar at theCUBE 365 for the folks who are watching this. This is our site that we built with our software. So we're open and Docker was instrumental and I think the Docker captains were also very instrumental and trying to help us figure out the best way to preserve the content value. I personally think we're in this early stage of, content and community are clearly go hand in hand and I think as you look at the chat, some of the names that are on there. Some of the comments, really there's a new flywheel of production and this to me is the ultimate collaboration when you have these distinct groups coming together. And I think it's going to just be a data dream where people aren't the product, they're actually a contributor. And I think this open source framework that you're talking about is going to be certainly just going to evolve rapidly. I think it's just not even scratching the surface. I just think this is going to be pretty massive. And services whatever you want to define that. It could be an API to anything. It's going to be essentially the scale point. I mean why have a monolith piece of software running something. Something Microsoft teams will work well here. Zoom will work well there but ultimately what's in it for me the person? This is the key question. Developers just want to develop. You're going to hear that throughout the day. Kelsey Hightower brings up some great points in his session and Amanda silver at Microsoft, she had a quote on one of her videos. She said, "App developers are the first responders "in this crisis." And that's the first time I've heard someone say that out loud and that hits home for me because it's true. And right now app developers are one of the front lines. They're providing the app support. They're providing to the practitioners in the field. This is something that's not really written about in the press. What's your reaction to app developers are the first responders in this crisis. >> Well I mean first I think it's important to pay tribute to people that actually are first responders. Writing code can make us responsive but let's not forget there are people that are lacking PPE and they are on the frontline. So not precise manner but I might frame it slightly differently. But certainly what the current situation has shown us is productivity is super important. Target has made huge investments in building out its own software development capabilities. So they used to be like 70% external 30% internal and they turn that round to like 80% internal 20 external. And they've been turning on a dime and well there's so much going on at the moment. I'm like talking about target then I'm remembering what's happening in Minneapolis today. But anyway we'll talk about that. But yeah organizations are responding quickly. Look at the numbers that Shopify is happening because all sorts of business is something like we need to be an online business. What's the quickest way to do that. And Shopify was able to package something up in a way that they they could respond to challenges. Huge social challenges. I'm a big believer the future's unwritten at this point and I think there's a lot of problems out there you point out and the first responders are there I agree. I'm just thinking that there's got to be a better path for all of us. And this brings up the whole new roles and responsibilities around this new environment and I know you're doing a lot of research. Can you share some thoughts on what you're kind of working on now James? That's important, I'll see what's trending here at DockerCon is. Compose the relationship with Microsoft, we've got security, Dockers now, multicloud approach, making it easier, that's their bread and butter. That's what they're known for. They kind of going back to that roots of why they pioneered in the first place. So as that continues ease-of-use, what's your focus area right now that you're researching that you could share with the audience? >> Well, I mean I'd say this year for me I've got probably three key areas. One is what's called GitOps. So it's the notion that you're using Git as a system of record. So that started off randomly making changes, you have an audit trail. You begin to have some sort of sense of compliance in software changes. I think the idea of everything has to be by a sort of a pull request. That automation model is super thing to me. So I've been looking at that. A lot of development teams are using those approaches. Observability is a huge trend. We're moving to the idea of testing and production. The kind of stuff that's been evangelized so successfully by charity majors honeycomb. It's super exciting to me and it's true because in effect, you're always testing in production, your dev environment. I mean we used to have this idea that you'd have a Dev and a Dev stage. You're have a staging environment. The only environment that really matters is where the rubber meets the road. And that is deployment. So I think that having having better tools for that is one of the areas I'm looking at. So how are tools innovating that area? And it won't be the thing that this is my own personal thing. I've been talking about progressive delivery which is asking a question about reducing risk by really understanding the blast radius of the service to be able to roll it out to specific use of populations first. Understanding who they are and enrolling it up so it's the idea that like maybe you brought something out to your employees first. Maybe you are in California and you roll something out in Tokyo knowing that not many people are using that service. It is a live environment but people are not going to be adversely affected if it happens. So Canary's Blue-Green deployments and also experimentation. This is sort of one of the areas I'm being sort of pulled towards. It's sort of product management and how that's really converging with software development. I feel like that's one of the things I haven't fully, I mean I think it's when they have research focused but you have to respond to new information. Anyhow, I'm spending a lot of time thinking about the world of product management. It's those companies to be most respect in terms of companies that are crushing it in the digital economy. They have such a strong product management focused. Everything is driven by product managers that understand technology and that's an exciting shift. The one that I'm paying greater attention. >> You do some great work and I love the focus on productivity software development. Getting those app developers out there and it's interesting. I just think that it's such an exciting time. It's almost intoxicating. Some people drinking on Twitter online and having beers because they're in different time zone. But if you look up and down the action that's going on, you got at the application developers side, all the things you were mentioning services. But when you look at the cloud side, you got almost this operating system reset. It's a systems architecture. So you have the hall and that's up and down. The middle of the stack to the bottom, you have this operating systems thinking and evolution. And then you got at the top, the pure software developers. And this is again to me the big aha moment. For the industry there's a true opportunity to scale that in unbelievable ways. And you don't have to pick a side. You can do a top of the stack bottom stack. So I think kubernetes and micro services really bring this whole enablement piece to the table. And that fascinates me and I think that's going to change what the apps will look like. It'll give more productivity and then making the internet programmable unit, that's new systems. So that seems to be the trend. You're a systems guy, your girl or you're a developer. How do you see that evolving? Do you get to that level? >> Developer experience is not necessarily the key value of Kubernetes. It's supremely flexible sort of system. It does offer you that portability. But I think what I'm seeing now is how people are taking Kubernetes and kind of thinking, so you've got VMware, acquires Heptio, brings Pivotal into the fold, starting about what that platform looks like. I think Pivotal with cloud foundry did a great job of thinking through operator experience. Operator experience is not the same as developer experience. I think we're going to see a bit more specialization of roles. Meanwhile at that point, you've got the cloud players all doing pretty awesome job supporting Kubernetes. But it gives that portability promise. So I think for me, one of the things is not expecting everyone to do everything. It's like Kelsey said, some people just want to come into work and do their job and they're super important. And so VMware I think a history of certification of application environments. So of them it's sort of quite--and certification of humans. It's quite natural that they would be somebody that would think about how do we make Kurbenetes more consumable and packaged in a way that more people take advantage of it. Docker was such a phenomenon and now seeing how that sort of evolving into that promise of portability is beginning to be realized. So I think the specialization, the pendulum is going to swing back just a little bit. >> I think it's just great timing and congratulations on all the work and thanks for taking the time for participating in DockerCon with the Keynote. Taking time out of your day and coming in and doing this live interview. The chat looks good. Hit some great, get some fans in there. It's a great opportunity and I think Docker as the pioneers, pivoting in a new direction, it's all about developer productivity and James you've been on it. @monkchips is his Twitter handle, follow him, hit him up. I'm John Furrier here in the studio for DockerCon 2020. Ginebra CEO and you got Brett Fisher on the captain's channel. If you go to the site, you'll see the calendar. Jump into any session you want. They'll be live on the time or on-demand instantly. TheCUBE track has a series of enemies. You've got Amazon, we got Microsoft, get some great guests, great practitioners that are literally having an impact on society. So thanks for watching. James, thanks for spending the time. >> Thank you very much John. >> Okay James Governor, founder of Monkchips, great firm, great person-- >> RedMonk, RedMonk is the company. Monkchips is the Twitter. >> Redmonk, Monkchips. RedMonk, RedMonk. >> RedMonk is the company. >> RedMonk, RedMonk. >> @monkchips is his Twitter handle and RedMonk is the firm, thank you for the correction. Okay more coverage DockerCon after this short break. Stay with us. The next segment is coming up. Stay with us here at theCUBE DockerCon. (gentle music)

>> From around the globe. It's theCUBE, with digital coverage of DockerCon Live 2020. brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome to DockerCon 2020. I'm John Furrier here in the DockerCon virtual studios. It's CUBE studios it's theCUBE virtual meets DuckerCon 2020 virtual event with my coach, Jenny Barocio and Peter McKee, as well as Brett Fisher, over on the captains who's doing his sessions. This is the wrap up of the long day of continuous amazing action packed DockerCon 2020. Jenny and Peter, what a day we still got the energy. We can go another 24 hours, let's do it now. This is a wrap up. So exciting day, tons of sessions, great feedback. Twitter's on fire the chats and engagements are on fire, but this is the time where we do the most coveted piece, the community awards, so Jenny, this is the time for you to deliver the drum roll for the community awards, take it away. >> Okay, (mumbles) It's the past few years and have been able to recognize those in the community that deliver so much to everyone else. And even though we're wrapping up here, there is still other content going on because we just couldn't stop till five o'clock. Peter what's happening right now? >> Yeah, so over in the Devs in Action channel, we have earning Docker Daemon with rootless mode. That's still going on, should be a great talk. And then in the How To channel, we have transforming open source into live service with Docker. They're still running now, two great talks. >> Awesome, and then the captains are still going. I think they probably started the after party already, although this channel's going to wait till, you know, 30 more minutes for that one. So if you're an after party mode, definitely go check out after we announced the awards, Brett and Marcos and Jeff and the captain's channel. So, we have some great things to share. And I mentioned it in my last segment, but nothing happens without the collective community. DockerCon is no exception. So, I really just want to take a moment again to thank the Docker team, the attendees, our sponsors and our community leaders and captains. They've been all over the virtual conference today, just like they would have been at a real conference. And I love the energy. You know, as an organizer planning a virtual event, there's always the concern of how it's going to work. Right, this is new for lots of people, but I'm in Florida and I'm thrilled with how everyone showed up today. Yeah, for sure. And to the community done some excellent things, Marcus, over them in the Captain's channel, he has built out PWD play with Docker. So, if you haven't checked that out, please go check that out. We going to be doing some really great things with that. Adding some, I think I mentioned earlier in the day, but we're adding a lot of great content into their. A lot more labs, so, please go check that out. And then talking about the community leaders, you know, they bring a lot to the community. They put there their free time in, right? No one paying them. And they do it just out of sheer joy to give back to the community organizing events. I don't know if you ever organized an event Jenny I know you have, but they take a lot of time, right? You have to plan everything, you have to get sponsors, you have to find out place to host. And now with virtual, you have to figure out how you're going to deliver the feel of a meetup in virtually. And we just had our community summit the other day and we heard from the community leaders, what they're doing, they're doing some really cool stuff. Live streaming, Discord, pulling in a lot of tools to be able to kind of recreate that, feel of being together as a community. So super excited and really appreciate all the community leaders for putting in the extra effort one of these times. >> Yeah, for really adapting and continuing in their mission and their passion to share and to teach. So, we want to recognize a few of those awesome community leaders. And I think we get to it right now Peter, are you ready? >> Set, let's go for it, right away. >> All right, so, the first community leaders are from Docker Bangalore and they are rocking it. Sangam Biradar, Ajeet singh Raina and Saiyam Pathak, thank you all so much for your commitment to this community. >> All right, and the next one we have is Docker Panang. Thank you so much to Sujay Pillai, did a great job. >> Got to love that picture and that shirt, right? >> Yeah. >> All right, next up, we'd love to recognize Docker Rio, Camila Martins, Andre Fernande, long time community leaders. >> Yeah, if I ever get a chance that's. I have a bunch of them that I want to go travel and visit but Rio is on top of list I think. >> And then also-- >> Rio maybe That could be part of the award, it's, you get to. >> I can deliver. >> Go there, bring them their awards in person now, as soon as we can do that again. >> That would be awesome, that'd be awesome. Okay, the next one is Docker Guatemala And Marcos Cano, really appreciate it and that is awesome. >> Awesome Marcos has done, has organized and put on so many meetups this last year. Really, really amazing. All right, next one is Docker Budapest and Lajos Papp, Karoly Kass and Bence Lvady, awesome. So, the mentorship and leadership coming out of this community is fantastic and you know, we're so thrilled to write, now is you. >> All right, and then we go to Docker Algeria. Yeah we got some great all over the country it's so cool to see. But Ayoub Benaissa, it's been great look at that great picture in background, thank you so much. >> I think we need we need some clap sound effects here. >> Yeah where's Beth. >> I'm clapping. >> Lets, lets. >> Alright. >> Last one, Docker Chicago, Mark Panthofer. After Chicago, Docker Milwaukee and Docker Madison one meet up is not enough for Mark. So, Mark, thank you so much for spreading your Docker knowledge throughout multiple locations. >> Yeah, and I'll buy half a Docker. Thank you to all of our winners and all of our community leaders. We really, really appreciate it. >> All right, and the next award I have the pleasure of giving is the Docker Captain's Award. And if you're not familiar with captains, Docker captains are recognized by Docker for their outstanding contributions to the community. And this year's winner was selected by his fellow captains for his tireless commitment to that community. On behalf of Docker and the captains. And I'm sure the many many people that you have helped, all 13.3 million of them on Stack Overflow and countless others on other platforms, the 2020 tip of the Captain's Hat award winner is Brandon Mitchell, so so deserving. And luckily Brandon made it super easy for me to put together this slide because he took his free DockerCon selfie wearing his Captains' Hat, so it worked out perfectly. >> Yeah, I have seen Brandon not only on Stack Overflow, but in our community Slack answering questions, just in the general area where everybody. The questions are random. You have everybody from intermediate to beginners and Brandon is always in there answering questions. It's a huge help. >> Yeah, always in there answering questions, sharing code, always providing feedback to the Docker team. Just such a great voice, both in and out for Docker. I mean, we're so proud to have you as a captain, Brandon. And I'm so excited to give you this award. All right, so, that was the most fun, right? We get to do the community awards. Do you want to do any sort of recap on the day? >> What was your favorite session? What was your favorite tweet? Favorite tweet was absolutely Peter screenshotting his parents. >> Mom mom my dear mom, it's sweet though, that's sweet. I appreciate it, can't believe they gave me an award. >> Yeah, I mean, have they ever seen you do a work presentation before? >> No, they've seen me lecture my kids a lot and I can go on about life's lessons and then I'm not sure if it's the same thing but yeah. >> I don't think so. >> No they have never see me. >> Peter you got to get the awards for the kids. That's the secret to success, you know, and captain awards and the community household awards for the kids. >> Yeah, well I am grooming my second daughter, she teaches go to afterschool kids and never thought she would be interested in programming cause when she was younger she wasn't interested in, but yes, super interested in now I have to, going to bring her into the community now, yeah. >> All right, well, great awards. Jenny is there any more awards, we good on the awards? >> Nope, we are good on the awards, but certainly not the thank yous is for today. It's an absolute honor to put on an event like this and have the community show up, have our speakers show up have the Docker team show up, right? And I'm just really thrilled. And I think the feedback has been phenomenal so far. And so I just really want to thank our speakers and our sponsors and know that, you know, while DockerCon may be over, like what we did today here and it never ends. So, thank you, let's continue the conversation. There's still things going on and tons of sessions on demand now, you can catch up, okay. >> One more thing, I have to remind everybody. I mentioned it earlier, but I got to say it again go back, watch the keynote. And I'll say at this time there is an Easter egg in there. I don't think anybody's found it yet. But if you do, tweet me and might be a surprise. >> Well you guys-- >> Are you watching your tweet feed right now? Because you're going to get quite a few. >> Yeah, it's probably blowing up right now. >> Well you got to get on a keynote deck for sure. Guys, it's been great, you guys have been phenomenal. It's been a great partnership, the co-creation this event. And again, what's blows me away is the global reach of the event, the interaction, the engagement and the cost was zero to attend. And that's all possible because of the sponsors. Again, shout out to Amazon web services, Microsoft Azure Engine X, Cockroach Labs and sneak of Platinum sponsors. And also we had some ecosystem sponsors. And if you liked the event, go to the sponsors and say hello and say, thank you. They're all listed on the page, hit their sessions and they really make it possible. So, all this effort on all sides have been great. So, awesome, I learned a lot. Thanks everyone for watching. Peter you want to get a final word and then I'll give Jenny the final, final word. >> No again, yes, thank you, thank you everybody. It's been great, theCUBE has been phenomenal. People behind the scenes has been just utterly professional. And thank you Jenny, if anybody doesn't know, you guys don't know how much Jenny shepherds this whole process through she's our captain internally making sure everything stays on track and gets done. You cannot even imagine what she does. It's incredible, so thank you, Jenny. I really, really appreciate it. >> Jenny, take us home, wrap this up 2020, dockerCon. >> All Right. >> In the books, but it's going to be on demand. It's 365 days a year now, come on final word. >> It's not over, it's not over. Community we will see you tomorrow. We will continue to see you, thank you to everyone. I had a great day, I hope everyone else did too. And happy DockerCon 2020, see you next year. >> Okay, that's a wrap, see on the internet, everyone. I'm John, for Jenny and Peter, thank you so much for your time and attention throughout the day. If you were coming in and out, remember, go see those sessions are on a calendar, but now they're a catalog of content and consume and have a great evening. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>From around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of DockerCon live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >>Hello everyone. Welcome to Docker con 2020 I'm John furrier with the cube. I'm in our Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew. We have a great lineup here for DockerCon con 2020 virtual event. Normally it was in person face to face. I'll be with you throughout the day from an amazing lineup of content over 50 different sessions, cube tracks, keynotes, and we've got two great co-hosts here with Docker, Jenny Marcio and Brett Fisher. We'll be with you all day, all day today, taking you through the program, helping you navigate the sessions. I'm so excited, Jenny. This is a virtual event. We talk about this. Can you believe it? We're, you know, may the internet gods be with us today and hope everyone's having an easy time getting in. Jenny, Brett, thank you for being here. Hey, >>Yeah. Hi everyone. Uh, so great to see everyone chatting and telling us where they're from. Welcome to the Docker community. We have a great day planned for you >>Guys. Great job. I'm getting this all together. I know how hard it is. These virtual events are hard to pull off. I'm blown away by the community at Docker. The amount of sessions that are coming in the sponsor support has been amazing. Just the overall excitement around the brand and the, and the opportunities given this tough times where we're in. Um, it's super exciting. Again, made the internet gods be with us throughout the day, but there's plenty of content. Uh, Brett's got an amazing all day marathon group of people coming in and chatting. Jenny, this has been an amazing journey and it's a great opportunity. Tell us about the virtual event. Why DockerCon virtual. Obviously everyone's cancelling their events, but this is special to you guys. Talk about Docker con virtual this year. >>Yeah. You know, the Docker community shows up at DockerCon every year and even though we didn't have the opportunity to do an in person event this year, we didn't want to lose the time that we all come together at DockerCon. The conversations, the amazing content and learning opportunities. So we decided back in December to make Docker con a virtual event. And of course when we did that, there was no quarantine. Um, we didn't expect, you know, I certainly didn't expect to be delivering it from my living room, but we were just, I mean we were completely blown away. There's nearly 70,000 people across the globe that have registered for Docker con today. And when you look at backer cons of past right live events, really and more learning are just the tip of the iceberg. And so thrilled to be able to deliver a more inclusive vocal event today. And we have so much planned. Uh, I think Brett, you want to tell us some of the things that you have planned? >>Well, I'm sure I'm going to forget something cause there's a lot going on. But, uh, we've obviously got interviews all day today on this channel with John the crew. Um, Jenny has put together an amazing set of all these speakers all day long in the sessions. And then you have a captain's on deck, which is essentially the YouTube live hangout where we just basically talk shop. Oh, it's all engineers, all day long, captains and special guests. And we're going to be in chat talking to you about answering your questions. Maybe we'll dig into some stuff based on the problems you're having or the questions you have. Maybe there'll be some random demos, but it's basically, uh, not scripted. It's an all day long unscripted event, so I'm sure it's going to be a lot of fun hanging out in there. >>Well guys, I want to just say it's been amazing how you structured this so everyone has a chance to ask questions, whether it's informal laid back in the captain's channel or in the sessions where the speakers will be there with their, with their presentations. But Jenny, I want to get your thoughts because we have a site out there that's structured a certain way for the folks watching. If you're on your desktop, there's a main stage hero. There's then tracks and Brett's running the captain's tracks. You can click on that link and jump into his session all day long. He's got an amazing set of line of sleet, leaning back, having a good time. And then each of the tracks, you can jump into those sessions. It's on a clock. It'll be available on demand. All that content is available if you're on your desktop, if you're on your mobile, it's the same thing. >>Look at the calendar, find the session that you want. If you're interested in it, you could watch it live and chat with the participants in real time or watch it on demand. So there's plenty of content to navigate through. We do have it on a clock and we'll be streaming sessions as they happen. So you're in the moment and that's a great time to chat in real time. But there's more, Jenny, you're getting more out of this event. We, you guys try to bring together the stimulation of community. How does the participants get more out of the the event besides just consuming some of the content all day today? >>Yeah. So first set up your profile, put your picture next to your chat handle and then chat. We have like, uh, John said we have various setups today to help you get the most out of your experience are breakout sessions. The content is prerecorded so you get quality content and the speakers and chat. So you can ask questions the whole time. Um, if you're looking for the hallway track, then definitely check out the captain's on deck channel. Uh, and then we have some great interviews all day on the queue so that up your profile, join the conversation and be kind, right. This is a community event. Code of conduct is linked on every page at the top and just have a great day. >>And Brett, you guys have an amazing lineup on the captain, so you have a great YouTube channel that you have your stream on. So the folks who were familiar with that can get that either on YouTube or on the site. The chat is integrated in, so you're set up, what do you got going on? Give us the highlights. What are you excited about throughout your day? Take us through your program on the captains. That's going to be probably pretty dynamic in the chat too. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I'm sure we're going to have less, uh, lots of, lots of stuff going on in chat. So no concerns there about, uh, having crickets in the, in the chat. But we're going to, uh, basically starting the day with two of my good Docker captain friends, uh, Nirmal Mehta and Laura taco. And we're going to basically start you out and at the end of this keynote, at the end of this hour, and we're going to get you going. And then you can maybe jump out and go to take some sessions. Maybe there's some cool stuff you want to check out in other sessions that are, you want to chat and talk with the, the instructors, the speakers there, and then you're going to come back to us, right? Or go over, check out the interview. So the idea is you're hopping back and forth and throughout the day we're basically changing out every hour. >>We're not just changing out the, uh, the guests basically, but we're also changing out the topics that we can cover because different guests will have different expertise. We're going to have some special guests in from Microsoft, talk about some of the cool stuff going on there. And basically it's captains all day long. And, uh, you know, if you've been on my YouTube live show you, you've watched that, you've seen a lot of the guests we have on there. I'm lucky to just hang out with all these really awesome people around the world, so it's going to be fun. >>Awesome. And the content again has been preserved. You guys had a great session on call for paper sessions. Jenny, this is good stuff. What are the things can people do to make it interesting? Obviously we're looking for suggestions. Feel free to, to chirp on Twitter about ideas that can be new. But you guys got some surprises. There's some selfies. What else? What's going on? Any secret, uh, surprises throughout the day. >>There are secret surprises throughout the day. You'll need to pay attention to the keynotes. Brett will have giveaways. I know our wonderful sponsors have giveaways planned as well in their sessions. Uh, hopefully right you, you feel conflicted about what you're going to attend. So do know that everything is recorded and will be available on demand afterwards so you can catch anything that you miss. Most of them will be available right after they stream the initial time. >>All right, great stuff. So they've got the Docker selfie. So the Docker selfies, the hashtag is just Docker con hashtag Docker con. If you feel like you want to add some of the hashtag no problem, check out the sessions. You can pop in and out of the captains is kind of the cool, cool. Kids are going to be hanging out with Brett and then all they'll knowledge and learning. Don't miss the keynote. The keynote should be solid. We got changed governor from red monk delivering a keynote. I'll be interviewing him live after his keynote. So stay with us and again, check out the interactive calendar. All you gotta do is look at the calendar and click on the session you want. You'll jump right in. Hop around, give us feedback. We're doing our best. Um, Brett, any final thoughts on what you want to share to the community around, uh, what you got going on the virtual event? Just random thoughts. >>Yeah. Uh, so sorry, we can't all be together in the same physical place. But the coolest thing about as business online is that we actually get to involve everyone. So as long as you have a computer and internet, you can actually attend DockerCon if you've never been to one before. So we're trying to recreate that experience online. Um, like Jenny said, the code of conduct is important. So, you know, we're all in this together with the chat, so try to try to be nice in there. These are all real humans that, uh, have feelings just like me. So let's, let's try to keep it cool and, uh, over in the Catherine's channel be taking your questions and maybe playing some music, playing some games, giving away some free stuff. Um, while you're, you know, in between sessions learning. Oh yeah. >>And I gotta say props to your rig. You've got an amazing setup there, Brett. I love what your show you do. It's really bad ass and kick ass. So great stuff. Jenny sponsors ecosystem response to this event has been phenomenal. The attendance 67,000. We're seeing a surge of people hitting the site now. So, um, if you're not getting in, just, you know, just wait going, we're going to crank through the queue, but the sponsors on the ecosystem really delivered on the content side and also the sport. You want to share a few shout outs on the sponsors who really kind of helped make this happen. >>Yeah, so definitely make sure you check out the sponsor pages and you go, each page is the actual content that they will be delivering. So they are delivering great content to you. Um, so you can learn and a huge thank you to our platinum and gold authors. >>Awesome. Well I got to say, I'm super impressed. I'm looking forward to the Microsoft Amazon sessions, which are going to be good. And there's a couple of great customer sessions there and you know, I tweeted this out last night and let them get you guys' reaction to this because you know, there's been a lot of talk around the covert crisis that we're in, but there's also a positive upshot to this is Cambridge and explosion of developers that are going to be building new apps. And I said, you know, apps apps aren't going to just change the world. They're gonna save the world. So a lot of the theme years, the impact that developers are having right now in the current situation, you know, if we get the goodness of compose and all the things going on in Docker and the relationships, this real impact happening with the developer community. And it's pretty evident in the program and some of the talks and some of the examples how containers and microservices are certainly changing the world and helping save the world. Your thoughts. >>Yeah. So if you, I think we have a, like you said, a number of sessions and interviews in the program today that really dive into that. And even particularly around coven, um, Clemente is sharing his company's experience, uh, from being able to continue operations in Italy when they were completely shut down. Uh, beginning of March, we have also in the cube channel several interviews about from the national Institute of health and precision cancer medicine at the end of the day. And you just can really see how containerization and, uh, developers are moving in industry and, and really humanity forward because of what they're able to build and create, uh, with advances in technology. Yeah. >>And first responders and these days is developers. Brett compose is getting a lot of traction on Twitter. I can see some buzz already building up. There's huge traction with compose, just the ease of use and almost a call for arms for integrating into all the system language libraries. I mean, what's going on with compose? I mean, what's the captain say about this? I mean, it seems to be really tracking in terms of demand and interest. >>Yeah, it's, it's a, I think we're over 700,000 composed files on GitHub. Um, so it's definitely beyond just the standard Docker run commands. It's definitely the next tool that people use to run containers. Um, just by having that we just by, and that's not even counting. I mean, that's just counting the files that are named Docker compose Yammel so I'm sure a lot of you out there have created a gamma file to manage your local containers or even on a server with Docker compose. And the nice thing is, is Docker is doubling down on that. So we've gotten some news recently, um, from them about what they want to do with opening the spec up, getting more companies involved, because compose is already gathered so much interest from the community. You know, AWS has importers, there's Kubernetes importers for it. So there's more stuff coming and we might just see something here in a few minutes. >>Well, let's get into the keynote. Guys, jump into the keynote. If you missed anything, come back to the stream, check out the sessions, check out the calendar. Let's go. Let's have a great time. Have some fun. Thanks for enjoy the rest of the day. We'll see you soon..

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios (upbeat music) in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Everyone, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here in Palo Alto, California during the COVID-19 current situation. We're here with a skeleton crew, getting the content out there. Wanted to bring a special remote interview to you with two great remote guests, talking about how the digital events, and how the digital interactions are evolving, and how our community's reacting. Got two great guests, John Kreisa, a senior vice president of marketing at Docker, and Jenny Burcio, who's the advocate, community and DockerCon content lead at Docker. Jenny and John, thanks for joining me today. >> Great to be here, thank you. >> Thanks, John. >> So you guys, Docker has been one of the most popular container platforms from the beginning of this cloud native movement. You have over millions and millions of developers out there. DockerCon is going virtual. It's an event that you guys had physically over the years, now it's going to go virtual, but this is not new to the developer world. I want to get into that in the conversation, but first I want to give you guys a chance to take a minute and explain, John Kreisa, if you take a minute to explain the new Docker because there were some changes over the past year. Take a quick minute to explain that. >> Sure thanks John, and hello everybody. So, we went through a change in November of last year to refocus Docker on, I'll say, what was the roots and the foundations of the company, around developers and developer teams. And so, at that time we took the action to split off the enterprise-focused component of the business, sold it to a company called Mirantis. Since that time, we've been working very diligently around refocusing Docker on developer tooling, developer chains, and really developer productivity, individuals and teams, and that's something that has really revitalized our community, I'll say. The community's been strong and has come with us, and I think is reacting very, very positively to this change. So that's something that we've been going on, we're about five months into that change, and that's been positive so far. >> So it's a startup, kind of a reset, kind of a start up again, get the startup roots, but with a huge community, millions of developers. >> Massive community, that's right. Millions of developers, more than two million Docker desktop downloads installed on developer machines. Huge community around Docker Hub, using that as their essential collaboration point for developers for developing applications as they move those applications to the web, and to the cloud infrastructure. So, really just a tremendous community. It is a refocused company, but one that really is starting with a phenomenal foundation, as you mentioned, in terms of the community that we have with us. >> And it's a second chance to ride the big wave. Certainly the waves are bigger now. I don't want to make this a real commercial about Docker, or DockerCon. We're going to do a special video promo reel on that event, which we're kind of co-producing with you guys on a new collaboration. So look for, the folks watching, look for a nice promo intro video on what's going to happen at DockerCon, which will be a whole nother track. The reason why I wanted to bring you guys here, is this highlights to me the core impact of part of this crisis and current situation around Coronavirus, COVID-19, people are working at home more, so the mainstream world is seeing what it's like to work at home. People are understanding some of the pressures and the dynamics around how people communicate and work. And we, Jenny, were talking about this from a community standpoint. Open source community, they've been working at home (laughs) for a long time. It's been one of the most biggest success stories that hasn't been written is the success of how software developers have been productive in working in these groups on big projects with people from around the world. This isn't new. I'd love to get your perspective on how, what's your reaction to everyone else's reaction of the whole work-at-home digital world? >> Yeah, so, I mean, if you look at what open source, and what engineers have done, generally. You know, innovation doesn't happen within an office from nine to five, in whatever time zone you're in. And so, there's been, with Docker, GitHub, Zoom, a number of tools in place, and not just the ones I named, that really allow anyone, anywhere in the world, to contribute their ideas, and respond real time. We're not going through a huge change, even within Docker or in tech, of having to work from home. Maybe kids in the calls is a little bit different, but for many of us, we're lucky to continue marching on during this time. >> What do you guys see as best practices of the work-at-home crisis, or some of the collaboration techniques? I mean, everyone knows the online troll. I mean, trolls just get booted out, or moderated out of groups. Is there a certain best practice that you could share with folks that aren't, that are learning this for the first time? >> Sure, so, highly recommend having a code of conduct, and living by that code of conduct. So making it very visible to whomever you're working with, both internally at the company, and in open source, externally to anyone wanting to contribute to a project. Giving grace in this time. As we all know there's stress much beyond what's happening in our day-to-day work for all the community right now. And writing things as much as possible. And I think, particularly as in the last couple of weeks, there's been a real need to keep the written record of decisions and conversations, and make it out there and open so anyone can kind of participate. And even to that end, Docker announced a public roadmap earlier this month. So now our entire community can jump on and vote for what they want to see, or provide input and ideas on what we would do next. >> John, I want to ask you around DockerCon coming up, as you guys look to this being a first virtual event, digital event we call it. It's more digital than virtual, but I guess people use the word virtual more now, but it's really digital. Content value has always been king on physical events, but as you move over to virtual events, you just can't make the same people make the same decisions around a breakout room, or what assignment on the calendar and just ship it over to digital is a whole nother roles. New rules, new roles, new dynamics. What's your view on this as a marketer, because you've been on both sides, successful on both sides of the table there? >> Yeah, it is a, in a way, whole new world. I've participated in virtual events in the past, but I think this, the kind of scenario that we're in, puts a whole new impetus on making sure that these events, as much as you can, emulate the in-person experience. I think it's important that the experience you provide to your audience allows them to interact in a number of different ways, above and beyond just simply watching and consuming content, but really allows them to interact with each other that makes it so they can interact with speakers, and other users, and the kinds of people that they want to have. One of the things that we're thinking about, for example, for DockerCon coming up is, how do we emulate that hallway experience, right? The you're walking down the hall, you see somebody, you've been wanting to talk to them, and you have a quick five, or 10, or 20-minute conversation that allows you to have a really good, rich exchange. And that's something that we're working hard, Jenny's working hard on, and that the team's really working hard to provide. So, you know, in this new world, it's how do we bring some of those things that make a great in-person event to the virtual world? And you know, there's fortunately a lot of great tools out there now that do make that possible, you just have to bring them together in the right way. >> Yeah, I know that's something that we've been working on together with you guys, and you know, everyone knows my rant. I think that the format's going to be multiple different types of formats. Chats are different. We were chatting around the different, you know, there's a streamed chat, like on YouTube and Twitch, versus threaded like Reddit. And the hallway grabs, those hallway tracks, it's all about the content of the people, and I want to get your thoughts on, as you guys look to take this asynchronous approach, try to make it synchronous with DockerCon, has it changed some of your thinking around call for papers? I mean, call for papers is almost like an editorial call for a blog post now. So is it changing how you guys are thinking? Is there any insight that you could share as you guys are preparing? Also, you still got to get sponsors. You still got to get some funding. Maybe not huge amounts 'cause the physical space, venue's not there, it's digital now. So, can you guys just share your thinking, your reaction, and any insights you can glean from those two dynamics, the format, the call for papers, and the sponsors, and things of that nature that were proven methods the old way? I mean, just like, call the papers, line up the schedule, there it is, and everyone shows up, but not anymore. What's different? >> So with virtual we really have the opportunity to take the serendipity out of the conversations and the learning that happens at an in-person event. We ran a traditional call for papers. It closed on Friday, we got a number of responses and great, great content that came in. But we're not going to set a speaker up to deliver that live in a session at DockerCon. We're going to pre-record their talks, and have the speaker there live to actually chat with anyone in the audience. So, answer questions, so you'll have, actually, a much greater opportunity to talk to that expert via this virtual event than you would in person, listening to that person speak. I think it really helps first time speakers, and speakers who aren't as confident to get up in a huge room, to have the opportunity to pre-record their talk. So it adds to kind of the diversity and inclusion of the event to bring on some new speakers, for sure. And from a location standpoint, right, now you don't have to give up a whole week to show up somewhere. You can spend that time working on your talk, or whatever else, to kind of share your knowledge. And then the conversation doesn't have to end there. You really, everyone has a way to connect with each other after the fact, which as event marketers, you're always looking for what is that way that you continue the wonderful connections and learning that happens at a live event, beyond. And by having it all happen virtually, you're setting yourself up for success in that area. >> It actually makes it more interesting, because you think about it, you give your talk, and you're there after either giving people high fives, or signing autographs, or getting tomatoes thrown at you. So it's there, right? I mean, it is what's the product, it's the content product. You can engage with the audience after to take that followup, that side bar, maybe the conversations. How about, John, sponsors? I mean, obviously, we have to include sponsors into these events. You know, I've seen some software out there that's pretty old school. It's like, "Oh, here's the digital rendering of our booth." I mean, I personally think that's horrible. I think that's the wrong direction, but the content value of a booth is an event within the event. So there is a way to weave this in. What's your vision of that? How do you see the inclusion of a sponsor, and how is it more intimate and more authentic for them? >> Yeah, I think there's multiple aspects in terms of benefits for a sponsor that we are thinking about. Certainly, as you said, you don't really get that walk into the booth kind of experience, but given that it's all digital, you actually have a much more scalable way to enable sponsors to interact. Firstly, just with how we're promoting the event going into it, and the fact that as they create an asset, it can live in perpetuity, that we can continue to push out there to viewers. And we know that people can come and look at that content afterwards, and that gives yet another opportunity for those sponsors to interact with the people who are consuming it. So everybody has to really think a little bit differently. Both the sponsors of these events, and the hosts, as Docker is doing now, to how and what kinds of interactions. So we're thinking, how do we allow them to capture an interaction? What kinds of calls to action can they include within their digital content? And so everybody's got to think a little bit more digitally and more forward than just, "Hey, let me have people walk "into my booth and pick up some swag." >> You know, it's interesting, we have this conversation that's like an angle on theCUBE all the time, if you think about the end user, the consumer of the content, if you work on the strive for the content value, everybody wins. So, it's like an upstream project in open source. If done well, everyone can reap the benefits. If the shared mission is audience satisfaction around the content, that's contextually relevant to the people at any given time, which is what digital is beautiful for, and you can really create an environment for great activation, and full-on demand, consumer experience advantage, either learning or engaging, or whatever. If you do that, if everyone shares in that mission, that's a success formula. Whether you're a sponsor, or an attendee, or a producer. Do you agree with that? >> And John, we were saying earlier today, this format makes content even more of the king, right? The way that you're going to get attention is by delivering value through that content, and you will probably have a better result of someone stopping by to learn what your offering is, or what knowledge you're bringing to the table, versus what that piece of swag was that they're getting scanned for. >> And there's a role for everybody. I remember when, back in the glory days when I used to develop code, I used to go show my peers my software, they're like, "Yeah, John, that code's just not good." "Well, no, no." But there's a role for me. I wasn't the best coder, but if you have good code, you rise right to the top of the pecking order and people recognize your software in open source, and content's kind of the same way. Everyone can produce content, and some will be better than others, but it doesn't mean that it's just about the content produced, or the curation, there's other roles. Do you guys see some parallels between content development in this kind of way, in a similar fashion as, say, software? I'm just making that metaphor up, it's just riffing out loud. It's a similar construct. Good software wins the day. Good community makes it all work. >> Sure, if your end goal is to educate others and share something that is of value, then it's going to be picked up. And of course creating content takes practice, just like becoming an excellent coder. And so, the stakes aren't as high in a virtual event, especially with pre-recording and some of the other things that you're doing. You know, blog about it. Do a video, do a session, right? Take that content, deliver it different ways, and practice. Particular to DockerCon, both at our live events, and what we will do moving forward, we have an extensive support system for all of our speakers. We assign a number of people internally to review outline, review talk tracks, review slides, and run through actual practices, so that our speakers are very attuned to what our audience is going to be expecting, and feel very comfortable delivering their session, because their success is our success, and ultimately, we're looking for delivering that value to Docker's builders. >> I love the format you mentioned earlier, pre-record, but also there's a new format emerging that's very popular in the Twitch world which is streaming your video game. I still predict that people will be streaming their coding sessions, but you guys have a Docker captain in Brett, who has his own streaming rig and he does the Docker birthday party, recently. I think that's going to be a future format, streaming to an end point, not just for gaming, but for just life, life casting as some people call it. But that's a good format. It fits perfectly into these digital events to host and emcee these sessions. So you can do the record on-demand, record in advance, but there's also a role for streaming, doing the demos, doing the tech talks. >> I mean, think about your audience. They need something both in the moment, and after the fact. And sessions are something that you can watch now, or later, but running through an event with our captain, like Brett Fisher, you want to be there to see what's going on. We did a birthday live stream on Thursday, to celebrate Docker's seventh birthday, and it was amazing because we had so many members of our community come on. They can't go to meet-ups anymore with everything that's happening, but we found a way to all connect, all chat, have a great time, and have this group experience, both fun and learning. And I think we will continue to see that, not just in the conference form, but increasingly now with COVID, people can't get together. People are Zooming with their high school friends to make up for time lost. So I think beyond our industry, the world is going to get very used to connecting virtually. >> I'm going to have a Zoom session tonight, seven o'clock on my Facebook page. It's going to be interesting to see all my high school friends come out, and who knows those words, but there's kind of no moderator button on Facebook. I got to figure out, make sure they're all there. Final question on this whole event thing, and then we can get to this last section around DockerCon. John and Jenny, we both have friends that are in digital, have done events. I'm hearing a lot of pressure is on these digital teams, because the physical events have proven a lot of great business value. Most companies know the economic value of physical event. Again, it's been standardized over decades, but now all of the sudden these new teams, digital teams, are being asked to provide the same business value that these physical events have provided, and these teams aren't equipped for it. So I'm getting a lot of phone calls, and a lot of outreach to theCUBE saying, "We need help." That's the event digital team, and the demand generation marketing teams. They're under a lot of pressure. Are you guys seeing the same thing, and if you are, what advice would you give the people out there, because they're under a massive amount of pressure to deliver? >> Yeah, it's a new world in that regard. And yeah, there are a few platforms out there, but in terms of something for demand marketers that emulates that live event, there's really not. I mean, as you know, we're innovating in multiple ways with you to bring a different kind of experience, but we're also having to think about how do we convert that into some kind of economic value? I mean, for example, DockerCon is a free event this year. A lot of the costs are lower, but it's a free event. That sort of changes that aspect of it. But the other part is, how do we make sure that we connect with that audience, so that we have an ongoing relationship? The way we're looking at it, and I think one recommendation for other companies, is it is a component in a series of engagements. It's a very big one, one that we're investing quite a bit in, in terms of resources, but it's really just a series of, one component of a series of engagements that we have digitally. And there's lot of other ways that you can do it, and fortunately, like Jenny has online meetups, or already has virtual meetups as a component of our virtual experience. This is one that we're sliding in with that, and based on how we're expecting it to go, we'll continue to invest in it in the future. >> Jenny, 365 days in the year, that's digital, it's aways on, right? It's like you got to think holistically, not just have an event, stand it up, tear it down, move to the next one. You activate and you got to keep it always on, you have to keep a pulse. Keep the community rolling. >> Yes, and whether it was a physical event, or a virtual event, that's your goal anyways, is to continue that momentum and keep the community going. We are innovating on that with you for DockerCon, but we're also very much listening to our community, and what their needs are, and trying to figure out how to support their connections with their local community. Docker has a pretty extensive meetup network all around the world, and the rise of virtual really allows us to take the physical limitations of local meetups out, and if they want to run virtual events, then great, how can we support them as well? >> That's awesome. And you know our mission from this area for the folks watching, is to create the best experience possible for audiences, and that means putting the right content in front of them that matters, or having them choose their own content, meet the right people, find if their friends are there, make it a great engaging experience. Because if that happens, everybody wins. So, we're looking forward to DockerCon. If you guys could just give a highlight, quick teaser. John, give a quick teaser on DockerCon, and then Jenny, give the community update of what do you guys expect to have happen? What are you hoping for? What are you nervous about? What's the excitement? What's going on? John, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, thanks John. So just a brief on DockerCon. It's May 28th, of this year. It is a free event that is going to run for, I think it's eight hours during the day. There's multimodal, kind of consumption models. So we're thinking in terms of different channels that people can come and consume. We talked a little bit about the live channel with our captains. There's a live channel with theCUBE, with you guys. There's also the pre-recorded track content. So, there's a way for people to come and interact, come and participate in the chats, and consume content that should be highly educational and focused, and we hope that it'll be a great experience. We're really focused on the content, making sure that it's a great experience for our users and our audience. >> Jenny, how about the community? What's your take, and what's your goal and aspirations? What are you hoping for? >> Hoping for the community to be able to connect, both with the speakers, experts, captains, get their questions answered, have conversations with people on stage, if you will, but also with each other. And just kind of strengthen the bonds of the community, and getting everybody to a better place with developing with Docker and DevOps, and kind of create those pathways beyond May 28th. >> Yeah, it's a DevOps world. We're going to do our best. Hope we put a kick ass program together. It's going to be fun, (laughs) and we hope we have good bandwidth. John went out a couple times there, one time, but we're going to have some good time, and hopefully learn a lot and iterate, and just raise the bar on it and just get it going. So really appreciate collaborating with you guys, and really thank you for your insight on this real, I think, a clear vision on how digital's going to shape how people engage and how events will go, even when they come back. I think this point in time, this current situation's going to emphasize the role of digital isn't just about marketing to people and getting them to come to an event. I think it's going to be a real productive network effect, where there's value created. And I think the silver lining in all this is, this is going to be now the new path for us. So thank you for sharing your cutting edge insights. I appreciate your time, thank you. >> Thanks so much for having us. >> Thank you, John. >> Okay, this is a CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier here in the CUBE studios in Palo Alto, with the remote interviews during this time of crisis, of COVID-19 current situation. I'm John Furrier, theCUBE, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)