>>the idea of cloud is changing from a set of remote services somewhere out there in the cloud to an operating model that supports workloads on prem across clouds and increasingly at the near and far edge moreover, workloads are evolving from a predominance of general purpose systems to increasingly data intensive applications, developers are a new breed of innovators and kubernetes is a linchpin of creating new cloud native workloads that are in the cloud but also modernizing existing application portfolios to connect them to cloud native apps. Hello, we want to welcome back to HPD discovered 2021 the cubes ongoing coverage. This is Dave Volonte and with me are scott. Buchanan is the vice president of marketing at VM ware and Toby Weiss, who is the vice president of global hybrid cloud practice at HP gents. Welcome to the Q. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Day agreed to be here. >>Okay, thanks for having >>us. So you heard my little narrative upfront. Um and so let's get into it. I want to start with with some of the key trends that you guys see in the marketplace and maybe scott you could kick us off from VM ware's perspective. What are you seeing that's really driving? Uh I. T. Today. >>Well, Dave you started with a conversation around cloud, right, and you can't really have a conversation around cloud without also talking about applications. And so much of the interaction that we're having with customers these days is about how we bring apps and clouds together and modernize across those two dimensions at the same time. And that's a pretty complex discussion to have and it's a complex journey to navigate. And so we're here to talk to customers and to work with h Pe to help our customers across those two dimensions. >>Great, so Toby I mean, it's always been about applications, as scott said, but but the application, the nature of applications is changing how we develop applications. The mentioned it sort of data intensive applications were injecting ai into virtually everything the apps, the process, the the people even um uh from a from the perspective of really a company that supports applications with infrastructure, what are you seeing in the marketplace? What can you add to that discussion? >>Yes. Great point. Dave you know, with the scent with applications becoming more central, think about what that means uh and has been for developer communities and developers becoming uh more important customers for I. T. Uh We have to make it easier for these developers uh to speed their innovations to market. Right? The business demands newer and faster capabilities of these applications. So our job in the infrastructure and was called the platform layer is to help we need to build these kinds of platforms that allow developers to innovate more quickly. >>So we talked earlier about sort of modernizing apps. I mean, it seems to me that the starting point there is you want to containerized and obviously kubernetes is the, is the key there, But so okay, so if that's the starting point, where is the journey, what does that look like? Maybe scott you could chime in there >>Sure. A couple of quick thoughts there, Dave and Toby to build on first is if you look at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, Landscape today, what you can do at landscape dot c n c f dot io Holy Smokes, is that a jungle? So a lot of organizations need a guide through that CN cf landscape, they need a partner that they can trust to show them the way through that landscape. And then secondly, there needs to be ways to make these technologies easier to adopt and to use in practice, kubernetes being the ultimate example of that. And so we've been hard at work to try and make it easy and natural to make kubernetes part of one's existing infrastructure, so that building with and working with containers can be done on the same platform that you're using for virtual machines. >>So let's talk a little bit about cloud. Um and how you guys are thinking about cloud, remember told me that Back in VM World 2010, it was the very first vm world for the Cube. All we talked about was a cloud, but it was a private cloud, was really what we were talking about, which at the time largely met the virtualized data center. Um it was kind of before the software defined data center and today we're still talking about cloud, but it's it's hybrid cloud. It's kind of the narrative that I set up front data center. It's become for the most part software to find. And so how do you see this changing the I. T. Operating model? >>I think it's a great question. And look today you will see us talk a lot about this notion of cloud everywhere. So less differentiation about private and public and more about the experience of cloud. Right. Public. Cloud brought great innovations and what better than to bring those innovations to on premise workloads that we have chosen to operate and work there. So as we think about cloud more as an experience we want for our developers and our end users and our I. T. Organizations. We begin to think about how can we replicate that experience in an on premise environment. And so part of that is having the technologies that enable you to do that. The other part is um we most of us have evolved right the organization operating models to operate our cloud infrastructures off premises. Well now expanding that more holistically across our organization so we don't have to operating models but a single operating model that bridges both and and brings the ability of both of those together to get the most benefit as we really become to integrate and become truly hybrid in our organization. So I think the operating model is critical and the kinds of experiences we deliver to the users of that I. T. Uh infrastructure and operating model is critical as well. >>Are you guys are both basically in the infrastructure business but scott maybe we can start with you. There's a lot of changes that we're talking about in it. Generally the data center specifically especially big changes in workloads, with a lot more data intensive apps ai being injected into everything kubernetes, making things more fassel. And in many ways it simplifies things, but it also puts stress on the system because you've got to protect this. They they're no longer stateless apps right there, state full and you gotta protect them and and so they've got to be compliant. Um now you've got the edge coming in. Uh So my question is, what does infrastructure have to do to keep pace with all this application innovation? >>Uh one of the conversations that we are having increasingly with our customers is how can they embrace a dev sec ops mindset in their organization and adopt some of these more modern patterns and practices and make sure that security is embedded in the life cycle of the container. And and so I think that this is part of, the answer is equipping the operator through infrastructure to set guard rails in place so that the development organization can work with freedom inside of those guard rails. They can draw on a catalogs of curated container. Images, catalogs of apps start from templates. Those are the building blocks that allow developers to work faster and that allow an operator to ensure the integrity and compliance of the containers and the applications of the organizations building. >>Yeah, So, so that's kind of uh when I hear scott talked about that Toby I think infrastructure as code designing security and governance in right? We always we always said I was an afterthought. We kind of bolted it on second. The security team had to take care of that. This is always the same thing with backup. Right? So we got an app. It's all ready to go. How do we back it up? And so that's changing that whole notion of, of infrastructure as code. Um, I want to talk about Green lake in a minute, but, but before we get there, I wonder if you could talk about how HP E thinks about VM ware and how you guys are partnering. I'm specifically interested and where each of you sees the value that you bring to the table for your joint customers. >>Yeah, great question. You know, and, and starting to think about history like you did 2010 being the start of a cube journey. I, I remember in 2003 when we first partnered with VM ware in the very first data center consolidations and we built practices around this has been quite a long partnership with VM ware and I'm excited to see this. This partnership evolved today, especially into this cloud native space and direction. Uh It's critical we need you know uh you know customers have choices and we need great partners like VM ware uh to help satisfy the many different use cases and choices that our customers have. So while we bring you know good depth when it comes to building these infrastructures that become highly automated uh managed in some cases and consumable like on a consumption basis and automated like we help clients automate their ci Cd pipeline. We depend on technologies and partners like them where to make these outcomes real for our customers. >>Yeah I think there's a way to connect a couple of the points that we've been talking about today. Got some data from a state of kubernetes study that we just ran And this is 350. IT. decision makers who said uh that they're running kubernetes on premise, 55% of respondents are running kubernetes on premise today. And so Vm ware and HP gets worked together to bring kubernetes to those enterprises, 96% of them said that they're having a challenge selecting the right kubernetes distribution, 60 of them in that C. N. C. F. Landscape and the # one criteria that they're going to use to choose the right distribution uh set them on a path forward is that it's easy to deploy and to operate and to maintain in production. And so I think that this is where VM ware and HP get to come together to help try and keep things as simple as possible for customers as they navigate. A fairly complex world. >>That's interesting scott. So who are those um those on prem users of containers and kubernetes? Is it the is it the head of you know the the application team and an insurance company whose kind of maintaining the claims about? Is it is a guy's building new cloud native apps to help companies get digital first. Who are those, What's the persona look like >>in our conversations? You know, this is the infrastructure and operations team seen that there's energy around kubernetes and maybe there's some use in test and development and parts of the organization. And by centralizing over ownership of that kubernetes footprint, they can ensure that it's compliant if policy is set properly to your point earlier that it's meets the security standards for the organization. And so it's increasingly that SRE or site reliability engineer or platform operator who's taking ownership of that kubernetes footprint for the organization to ensure that consistency of management and experience for the development teams across the larger organs. Toby, is that what you're seeing? >>2? We see uh we see quite a few we engage with quite a few developer teams in business leads that have ambitions to speed their application development processes And uh you know, they want help and often, as I stated, the intro, they might be coming off of a much older deployment uh maybe from 2015 where there there were an early adopter of a container platform methodology and wanting to get to some newer platform or they they may be in charge of getting a mobile banking application and its features to market much more quickly. So and often when we get a quote maybe from a client and might come from, you know, the VP of a business unit. But often as we engage, it's, you know, the developers are pretty much our customers and their developer leaders and teams, >>so you're running into container technical debt. Already you're seeing that out there. It sounds like your legacy >>container. It takes some expertise to, to come off those older. You know, the first instance creations of these container platforms were pretty much open source and yeah, you want to bring it to something that's more modern and has the kinds of features, enterprise grade features you might need. >>So is it not so problematic for for customers? Because as I said before, a lot of those apps were sort of disposable and stateless and, and, and now they're saying, hey, we can actually use kubernetes to build, you know, mission critical apps. And so there, that's when they sort of decide to pivot to a new modern platform or is there a more complex migration involved? What are you seeing? >>Okay, I'll give my hot, take your Toby and then uh, ask you for yours. But I guess, uh, I feel like the conversations that I'm involved in with customers is, you know, always begins with their broader application portfolio. These enterprises have hundreds thousands of applications and job one is to figure out how to categorize them into those which need to be re hosted or platform or re factored or reimagined entirely. And so they're looking for help figuring out how to categorize those applications and ultimately how to attack each category of application. Some should be re platforms on environments that make best use of kubernetes, some need to be re factored, some need to be reimagined. And so they are again looking for that expert guide to show them the way >>right. And when we engage in those early discussions, we call it right Mix advisory. Um, you know, you're trying to take a full, a broad scope as you said, scott down to a few and uh you know determine kind of the first movers if you will also you know clients will engage you know for very specific applications that are or suite of applications. Again like mobile applications for banking. I think you're a good example because you know they have an ambition. I mean the leader of that kind of application may very well think that is the mission critical application for the company, right? But of course finance, they have a different point of view. So you know that that application to them is the center of their business getting you know, their customer access to the core banking features that they have and you know they want to zero in on the kind of ecosystem it takes in in the speed at which they can push new features through. So we see both as well um you know the broader scope application, weaning down to the few discovery application, uh and then of course a very focused effort to help a particular business unit speed development on their mobile app, for example, >>it's interesting scott you were talking about sort of, the conversation starts with the application portfolio and there have been there have been these sort of milestones around, you know, major application portfolio, I'll call him rationalizations, I mean there's always an ongoing, but y two K was one of those, this is sort of the big move to SAS was another one, obviously cloud and it feels like kubernetes, I mean it's like the cloud to Dato coming on. Prem is another one of those opportunities to rationalize applications. We all know the stats right, we always see 85% of the spend is to keep the lights on and the other the only small portion of innovation and you know, there's always a promise we can change that. It reminds me of the heavy year, I would go to the boston marathon, it was this guy would run and he had a hat on with the extension and it was a can of Budweiser way out there and he couldn't reach it and so he would run. It was almost the same thing here is they never get there because they have so many projects coming online and the project portfolio and and then and then the C I O has got to maintain those in the application heads and so it's this this ongoing thing. But you do see spikes in rationalization initiatives and it feels like with this push to modernization and digitization maybe the pandemic accelerated that too. Is that a reasonable premise? You're seeing sort of a milestone or a marker in terms of increased effort around rationalization and modernization today because of kubernetes? >>Yeah, I definitely think that there are a couple of kubernetes is a catalyzing technology and the challenges of the pandemic or a catalyzing moment. Right. And I feel like uh Organisations have seen over the past 18 months now that those enterprises that have a way to get innovation to market to customers faster, not once a quarter, but many times a day, are the ones that are separating themselves in competitive marketplaces and ultimately delivering superior customer experiences. So it comes back to some of the ideas full circle that Toby started with around delivering a superior developer experience so that those developers can get code to production and into the hands of customers on a much more rapid basis. Like that's the outcome that enterprises really care about at the end of the day. And kubernetes is part of the way to get there, but it's the outcome that's key. Great thank >>you. And one of our practices dave there was uh you know, that's been our bread and butter for so many years. This, you know, this broad based discovery, narrowing down to a strategy and a plan for migrating and moving certain workloads. We see a slight twist today in that clients and organizations want to move quicker too. The apps, they know that, you know, they want to focus on, they want to prove it by through the broad based discovery and kind of a strategic analysis but they want to get quicker right away to the workloads. They are quite sure that need re factoring or leverage the benefit of a modern developer environment. >>Yeah. And they don't want to be messing around with the provisioning, lungs and servers and all that stuff. They want that to be simplified. So we're gonna end on Green Lake and I want to understand how you guys are thinking about Green Lake in terms of your partnership and, and how you're working together, you know, maybe Toby you could sort of give us the update from your perspective, you can't have a conversation with HP today without talking about Green Lake. So give us the kool aid injection. And then I really interested in how VM ware thinks about participating in that. >>Absolutely. And, and thank you for uh, yeah, for helping us out here. You know, I see more and more of our engagements with clients that ask for and, and, and want to sign a Green Life based contract, >>but, >>and that is one very important foundational element. Uh and there's there's so much more because remember we talked about the cloud experience in cloud everywhere and Green Lake brings us an opportunity to bring dimensions to that, especially on the consumption model because that's that's an important element if we begin adding partners such as VM ware to this equation, especially for clients that have huge investments in VM where there's an opportunity here to really bring a lot of value with this cloud experience to our customers through this partnership. >>All right scott, we're gonna give you the last word. What's your take on this? >>Hey listen hard for me to to to add much to what Toby said, he nailed that you see a ton of energy in this space. I think we've covered a bunch of key topics today. Their ongoing conversations with our customers in Green Lake is a way to take that conversation to the next level. >>Guys really appreciate you coming on and give us your perspectives on kubernetes and and and and thank you scott for that data. 55% of I. T. Decision makers out of 350 said they're doing on prem kubernetes. That's a new stat. I hadn't I would have expected to be that high but I guess I'm not surprised it's the rage the developers want the latest and greatest guys. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and I appreciate you coming on the cube. >>Thank you. Dave. >>Thanks Dave. >>Thank you for watching the cubes ongoing coverage. Hp es discover 2021. The virtual version will be right back.

>>the idea of cloud is changing from a set of remote services somewhere out there in the cloud to an operating model that supports workloads on prem across clouds and increasingly at the near and far edge moreover, workloads are evolving from a predominance of general purpose systems to increasingly data intensive applications, developers are a new breed of innovators and kubernetes is a linchpin of creating new cloud native workloads that are in the cloud but also modernizing existing application portfolios to connect them to cloud native apps. Hello, we want to welcome back to HPD discovered 2021 the cubes ongoing coverage. This is Dave Volonte and with me are scott. Buchanan is the vice president of marketing at VM ware and Toby Weiss, who is the vice president of global hybrid cloud practice at HP gents. Welcome to the Q. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Day agreed to be here. >>Okay, thanks for having >>us. So you heard my little narrative upfront. Um and so let's get into it. I want to start with with some of the key trends that you guys see in the marketplace and maybe scott you could kick us off from VM ware's perspective. What are you seeing that's really driving? Uh I. T. Today. >>Well, Dave you started with a conversation around cloud, right, and you can't really have a conversation around cloud without also talking about applications. And so much of the interaction that we're having with customers these days is about how we bring apps and clouds together and modernize across those two dimensions at the same time. And that's a pretty complex discussion to have and it's a complex journey to navigate. And so we're here to talk to customers and to work with h Pe to help our customers across those two dimensions. >>Great, so Toby I mean, it's always been about applications, as scott said, but but the application, the nature of applications is changing how we develop applications. The mentioned it sort of data intensive applications were injecting ai uh into virtually everything the apps, the process, the people even um uh from a from the perspective of really a company that supports applications with infrastructure, what are you seeing in the marketplace? What can you add to that discussion? >>Yes. Great point. Dave you know, with the scent with applications becoming more central, think about what that means uh and has been for developer communities and developers becoming uh more important customers for I. T. Uh We have to make it easier for these developers uh to speed their innovations to market. Right? The business demands newer and faster capabilities of these applications. So our job in the infrastructure and uh it was called the platform layer is to help we need to build these kinds of platforms that allow developers to innovate more quickly. >>So we talked earlier about sort of modernizing apps. I mean, it seems to me that the starting point there is you want to containerized and obviously kubernetes is the, is the key there, but so okay, so if that's the starting point, where's the journey, what does that look like? Maybe scott you could chime in there >>Sure. A couple of quick thoughts there, dave and Toby to build on first, is if you look at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation Landscape today, which you can do at landscape dot c n c f dot io Holy Smokes, is that a jungle? So a lot of organizations need a guide through that CN cf landscape, they need a partner that they can trust to show them the way through that landscape. And then secondly, there needs to be ways to make these technologies easier to adopt and to use in practice kubernetes being the ultimate example of that. And so we've been hard at work to try and make it easy and natural to make kubernetes Part of 1's existing infrastructure. So that building with and working with containers can be done on the same platform that you're using for virtual machines. >>So let's let's talk a little bit about cloud and how you guys are thinking about cloud. Remember told me that Back in VM World 2010, it was the very first vm world for the Cube. All we talked about was a cloud, but it was a private cloud was really what we were talking about, which at the time largely met the virtualized data center. Um it was kind of before the software defined data center and today we're still talking about cloud, but it's it's hybrid cloud, it's kind of the narrative that I set up front data center. It's become for the most part software to find. And so how do you see this changing the I. T. Operating model? >>I think it's a great question. And and look today you will see us talk a lot about this notion of cloud everywhere. So less differentiation about private and public and more about the experience of cloud. Right public. Cloud brought great innovations and what better than to bring those innovations to on premise workloads that we've chosen to operate and work there. So as we think about cloud more as an experience we want for our developers and our end users and our I. T. Organizations. We begin to think about how can we replicate that experience in an on premise environment. And so part of that is having the technologies that enable you to do that. The other part is um We most of us have evolved alrighty organization operating models to operate our cloud infrastructures off premises. Well now expanding that more holistically across our organization so we don't have to operating models but a single operating model that bridges both and brings the ability of both those together to get the most benefit as we really become to integrate and become truly hybrid in our organization. So I think the operating model is critical and um the kinds of experiences we deliver to the users of that I. T. Uh infrastructure and operating model is critical as well. >>Are you guys are both basically in the infrastructure business scott? Maybe we can start with you there's a lot of changes that we're talking about in it. Generally the data center specifically especially big changes in workloads with a lot more data intensive apps ai being injected into everything Kubernetes, making things more facile. And in many ways it simplifies things, but it also puts stress on the system because you've got to protect this, they're no longer stateless apps right there, state full and you gotta protect them and and so they've got to be compliant. Um Now you've got the edge coming in. Uh So my question is, what does infrastructure have to do to keep pace with all this application innovation? >>Uh One of the conversations that we are having increasingly with our customers is how can they embrace a dev sec ops mindset in their organization and adopt some of these more modern patterns and practices and make sure that security is embedded in the life cycle of the container. And and so, you know, I think that this is part of, the answer is equipping the operator through infrastructure to set guard rails in place so that the development organization can work with freedom inside of those guard rails that it can draw on a catalogs of curated container images, catalogs of apps start from templates. Those are the building blocks that allow developers to work faster and that allow an operator to ensure the integrity and compliance of the containers and the applications that the organizations building. >>Yeah, So, so that's kind of uh when I hear scott talking about that Toby I think infrastructure as code designing security and governance in we always we always said I was an afterthought, we kind of bolted it on second. The security team had to take care of that. This is always the same thing with backup. Right? So we got an app. It's all ready to go. How do we back it up? And so that's changing that whole notion of infrastructure as code. Um, I want to talk about Green lake in a minute, but, but before we get there, I wonder if you could talk about how HP E thinks about VM ware and how you guys are partnering. I'm specifically interested and where each of you sees the value that you bring to the table for your joint customers. >>Yeah, great question. You know, and, and starting to think about history like you did 2010 being the start of a cube journey. I, I remember in 2003 when we first partnered with VM ware in the very first data center consolidations and we built practices around this. It's been quite a long partnership with VM ware and I'm excited to see this. This partnership evolved today, especially into this cloud, native space and direction. Uh, it's critical we need you know uh you know customers have choices and we need great partners like VM ware uh to help satisfy the many different use cases and choices that our customers have. So while we bring you know good depth when it comes to building these infrastructures that become highly automated um and managed in some cases and consume consumable like on a consumption basis and automated like we help clients automate their ci Cd pipeline. We depend on technologies and partners like them where to make these outcomes real for our customers. >>Yeah I think there's a way to connect a couple of the points that we've been talking about today. Got some data from a state of kubernetes study that we just ran and this is 350 I. T. Decision makers who said uh that they're running kubernetes on premise, 55% of respondents are running kubernetes on premise today and so VM ware and HP get to work together to bring kubernetes to those enterprises, 96% of them said that they're having a challenge selecting the right kubernetes distribution, 60 of them in that C. N. C. F. Landscape and the number one criteria that they're going to use to choose the right distribution, you know set them on a path forward is that it's easy to deploy and to operate and to maintain in production. And so I think that this is where the m wear and HP get to come together to help try and keep things as simple as possible for customers as they navigate. A fairly complex world. >>That's interesting scott. So who are those um those on prem users of containers and kubernetes? Is it the is it the head of you know the the application team and an insurance company whose kind of maintaining the claims about? Is it is a guy's building new cloud native apps to help companies get digital first. Who are those? What's the persona look like >>in our conversations? You know, this is the infrastructure and operations team seen that there's energy around kubernetes and maybe there's some use in test and development and parts of the organization. And by centralizing over ownership of that kubernetes footprint, they can ensure that it's compliant if policy is set properly to your point earlier that it's meets the security standards for the organization. And so it's increasingly that SRE or site reliability engineer or platform operator who's taking ownership of that kubernetes footprint for the organization to ensure that consistency of management and experience for the development teams across the larger order Toby, is that what you're seeing? Two, >>yeah, we see uh we see quite a few, we engage with quite a few developer teams in business leads that have ambitions to speed their application development processes And uh you know, they want help and often as I stated, the intro, they might be coming off of a much older deployment uh maybe from 2015 where there there were an early adopter of a container platform methodology and wanting to get to some newer platform or they they may be in charge of getting a mobile banking application and its features to market much more quickly. So, and often when we get a quote maybe from a client, it might come from, you know, the VP of a business unit. But often as we engage, it's, you know, the developers are pretty much our customers and their developer leaders and teams, >>so you're running into container technical debt already. You're seeing that out there. It sounds like your legacy >>container. It takes some expertise to, to come off those older. You know, the first instance creations of these container platforms were pretty much open source. And yeah, you want to bring it to something that's more modern and has the kinds of features, enterprise grade features you might need. >>So is it not so problematic for for customers? Because as I said before, a lot of those apps were sort of disposable and stateless. And, and, and now they're saying, hey, we can actually use kubernetes to build, you know, mission critical apps. And so there, that's when they sort of decide to pivot to a new modern platform or is there a more complex migration involved? What are you seeing? >>Okay, I'll give my hot, take your Toby and then uh, ask you for yours. But I guess I feel like the conversations that I'm involved in with customers is, you know, always begins with their broader application portfolio. These enterprises have hundreds thousands of applications and job one is to figure out how to categorize them into those which need to be re hosted or platforms or re factored or reimagined entirely. And so they're looking for help figuring out how to categorize those applications and ultimately how to attack each category of application. Some should be re platforms on environments that make best use of kubernetes, some need to be re factored, some need to be reimagined. And so they are again looking for that expert guide to show them the way >>right. And when we engage in those early discussions, we call it right Mix advisory. Um, you know, you're trying to take a full of broad scope as he said, scott down to a few and uh you know, determine kind of the first movers if you will also, you know, clients will engage you know, for very specific applications that are or suite of applications. Again like mobile applications for banking I think are a good example because you know they have an ambition. I mean the leader of that kind of application may very well think that is the mission critical application for the company, right? But of course finance, they have a different point of view. So you know that that application to them is the center of their business getting, you know, their customer access to the core banking features that they have and you know, they want to zero in on the kind of ecosystem. It takes in in the speed at which they can push new features through. So we see both as well um you know, the broader scope application, weaning down to the few discovery application, uh and then of course a very focused effort to help a particular business unit speed development on their mobile app, for example, >>it's interesting scott you were talking about sort of the conversation starts with the application portfolio and there have been there have been these sort of milestones around, you know, major application portfolio, I'll call him rationalizations, I mean there's always an ongoing but y two K was one of those, this is sort of the big move to SAS was another one, obviously cloud and it feels like kubernetes, I mean it's like the cloud to Dato coming on Prem is another one of those opportunities to rationalize applications. We all know the stats right, we always see 85% of the spend is to keep the lights on and the other the only small portions innovation and you know, there's always a promise we can change that. It reminds me of the every year I would go to the boston marathon, it was this guy would run and he had a hat on with the extension and it was a can of Budweiser way out there and he couldn't reach it and so he would run, it was almost the same thing here is they never get there because they have so many projects coming online and the project portfolio and and then and then the C I O has got to maintain those in the application heads and so it's this, this ongoing thing but you do see spikes in rationalization initiatives and it feels like with this push to modernization and digitization maybe the pandemic accelerated that too. Is that a reasonable premise? You seeing sort of a milestone or a marker in terms of increased effort around rationalization and modernization today because of kubernetes? >>Yeah, I definitely think that there are a couple of kubernetes is a catalyzing technology and the challenges of the pandemic or a catalyzing moment. Right. And I feel like uh Organisations have seen over the past 18 months now that those enterprises that have a way to get innovation to market to customers faster, not once a quarter, but many times a day are the ones that are separating themselves in competitive marketplaces and ultimately delivering superior customer experiences. So it comes back to some of the ideas full circle that Toby started with around delivering a superior developer experience so that those developers can get code to production and into the hands of customers on a much more rapid basis. Like that's the outcome that enterprises really care about at the end of the day. And kubernetes is part of the way to get there. But it's the outcome that's key. Great, thank >>you. And one of our practices dave there was uh you know, that's been our bread and butter for so many years. This, you know, this broad based discovery, narrowing down to a strategy and a plan for migrating and moving certain workloads. We see a slight twist today in that clients and organizations want to move quicker too. The apps, they know that, you know, they want to focus on, they want to prove it by through the broad based discovery and kind of a strategic analysis, but they want to get quicker right away to the workloads. They are quite sure that need re factoring or leverage the benefit of a modern developer environment >>and they don't want to be messing around with provisioning lungs and servers and all that stuff. They want that to be simplified. So we're gonna end on Green Lake and I want to understand how you guys are thinking about Green Lake in terms of your partnership and how you're working together, you know, maybe Toby you could sort of give us the update from your perspective, you can't have a conversation with HP today without talking about Green Lake. So give us the kool aid injection. And then I really interested in how VM ware thinks about participating in that. >>Absolutely. And, and thank you for uh, yeah, for helping us out here. You know, I see more and more of our engagements with clients that ask for and, and, and want to sign a Green Life based contract, >>but, >>and that is one very important foundational element. Uh and there's there's so much more because remember we talked about the cloud experience in cloud everywhere and Green Lake brings us an opportunity to bring dimensions to that, especially on the consumption model because that's that's an important element if we begin adding partners such as VM ware to this equation, especially for clients that have huge investments in VM where there's an opportunity here to really bring a lot of value with this cloud experience to our customers through this partnership. >>All right scott, we're gonna give you the last word. What's your take on this? >>Hey listen hard for me to to to add much to what Toby said, he nailed that you see a ton of energy in this space. I think we've covered a bunch of key topics today. Their ongoing conversations with our customers in Green Link is a way to take that conversation to the next level. >>Guys really appreciate you coming on and give us your perspectives on kubernetes and and and and thank you scott for that data. 55% of I. T. Decision makers out of 350 said they're doing on prem kubernetes. That's a new stat. I hadn't I would have expected to be that high but I guess I'm not surprised it's the rage the developers want the latest and greatest guys. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and I appreciate you coming on the cube. >>Thank you. Dave. >>Thanks Dave. >>Thank you for watching the cubes ongoing coverage. Hp es discover 2021. The virtual version will be right back. >>Mm.

>>Hello, and welcome to this cube conversation. I'm Sean for, with the cube here in Palo Alto, California, actually coming out of the pandemic this year. Hopefully we'll be back to real life soon. Uh it's uh, in March, shouldn't it be? April spring, 2021. Got a great guest Chris Lynch, who is executive chairman, CEO of scale, who took over at the helm of this company about two and a half years ago, or so, um, lots of going on Chris. Great to see you, uh, remotely, uh, in Boston, we're here in Palo Alto. Great to see you. >>Great to see you as well, but hope to see you in person, this sprint. >>Yeah. I got to say people really missing real life. And I started to see events coming back to vaccines out there, but a lot going on. I mean, Dave and I Volante, I was just talking about how, um, you know, when we first met you and big data world was kicking ass and taking names a lot's changed at Duke went the way it went. Um, you know, Vertica coming, you led, did extremely well sold. HP continue to be a crown jewel for HPE. Now the world has changed in the data and with COVID more than ever, you starting to see more and more people really doubling down. You can see who the winners and losers are. You starting to see kind of the mega trend, and now you've got the edge and other things. So I want to get your take at scale, took advantage of that pivot. You've been in charge. Give us the update. What's the current strategy of that scale? >>Sure. Well, when I took the company over about two and a half years ago, it was very focused on accelerating the dupe instances. And, uh, as you mentioned earlier, the dupe is sort of plateaued, but the ability to take that semantic layer and deliver it in the cloud is actually even more relevant with the advent of snowflake and Databricks and the emergence of, uh, Google big query, um, and Azure as the analytic platforms, in addition to Amazon, which obviously was, was the first mover in the space. So I would say that while people present big day in as sort of a passing concept, I think it's been refined and matured and companies are now digitizing their environment to take advantage of being able to deliver all of this big data in a way that, um, they could get actionable insights, which I don't think has been the case through the early stages of the development of big data concepts. >>Yeah, Chris, we've always followed your career. You've been a strong operator, but also see things a little bit early, get on the wave, uh, and help helps companies turn around also on public, a great career. You've had, I got to ask you in your opinion and you, and you can make sense for customers and make sure customers see the value proposition. So I got to ask you in this new world of the semantic layer, you mentioned snowflake, Amazon and cloud scales. Huge. Why is the semantic layer important? What is it and why is it important for customers? What are they really buying with this? >>Well, they're buying a few things, the buying freedom and choice because we're multicloud, um, they're, they're buying the ability to evolve their environments versus your evolution versus revolution. When they think about how they move forward in the next generation of their enterprise architecture. And the reason that you need the semantic layer, particularly in the cloud is that we separate the source from the actual presentation of the data. So we allow data to stay where it is, but we create one logical view that was important for legacy data workloads, but it's even more important in a world of hybrid compute models in multi-vendor cloud models. So having one source of truth, consistency, consistent access, secure access, and actual insights to wall, and we deliver this with no code and we allow you to turbocharge the stacks of Azure and Amazon Redshift and Google big query while being able to use the data that you've created your enterprise. So, so there's a demand for big data and big data means being able to access all your data into one logical form, not pockets of data that are in the cloud that are behind the firewall that are constrained by, um, vendor lock-in, but open access to all of the data to make the best decisions. >>So if I'm an enterprise and I'm used to on-premise data warehouses and data management, you know, from whether it's playing with a dupe clusters or whatever, I see snowflake, I see the cloud scale. How do I get my teams kind of modernized if you had to kind of go in and say, cause most companies actually have a hard time doing that. They're like they got to turn their existing it into cloud powerhouses. That's what they want to do. So how do you get them there? What's the secret in your opinion, to take a team and a company that's used to doing it on prem, on premises to the cloud? >>Sure. It's a great question. So as I mentioned before, the difference between evolution and revolution today, without outscale to do what you're suggesting is a revolution. And you know, it's very difficult to perform heart surgery on the patient while he's running the Boston marathon. And that's the analog I would give you for trying to digitize your environment without this semantic layer that allows you to first create a logical layer, right? This information in a logical mapping so that you can gradually move data to the appropriate place. Without us. You're asked to go from, you know, one spot to another and do that while you're running your business. And that's what discourages companies or creates tremendous risk with digitizing your environment or moving to cloud. They have to be able to do it in a way that's non-disruptive to their business and seamless with respect to their current workflows. >>No, Chris, I got to ask you without, I know you probably not expecting this question, but um, most people don't know that you are also an investor before you as CEO, um, angel investor as well. You did an angel investment deal with a chemical data robot. We've had a good outcome. And so you've seen the wave, you've seen a kind of how the progress, you mentioned snowflake earlier. Um, as you look at those kinds of deals, as they've evolved, you know, you're seeing this acceleration with data science, what's your take on this because you know, those companies that have become successful or been acquired that you've invested in now, you're operating at scale as a company, you got to direct the company into the right direction. Where is that? Where are you taking this thing? >>Sure. It's a great, great question. So with respect to AI and ML and the investment that I made almost 10 years ago and data robot, um, I believe then, and I believe now more than ever that AI is going to be the next step function in industrial productivity. And I think it's going to change, you know, the composition of our lives. And, um, I think I have enough to have been around when the web was commercialized in the internet, the impact that's having had on the world. I think that impact pales in comparison to what AI, the application of AI to all walks of life has gone going to do. Um, I think that, um, within the next 24 months companies that don't have an AI strategy will be shorted on wall street. I think every phone, every, every vertical function in the marketplace is going to be impacted by AI. >>And, um, we're just seeing the infancy of mass adoption application when it comes to at scale. I think we're going to be right in the middle of that. We're about the democratization of those AI and machine learning models. One of the interesting things we developed it, this ML ops product, where we're able to allow you with your current BI tool, we're able to take machine learning models and just all the legacy BI data into those models, providing better models, more accurate, and precise models, and then re publish that data back out to the BI tool of your choice, whether it be Tableau, Microsoft power, BI Excel, we don't care. >>So I got to ask you, okay, the enterprises are easy targets, large enterprises, you know, virtualization of the, of this world that we're living with. COVID virtualization being more, you know, virtual events, virtual meetings, virtual remote, not, not true virtualization, as we know it, it virtualization, but like life of virtualization of life companies, small companies like the, even our size, the cube, we're getting more data. So you start to see people becoming more data full, not used to dealing with data city mission. They see opportunities to pivot, leverage the data and take advantage of the cloud scale. McKinsey, just put out a report that we covered. There's a trillion dollars of new Tam in innovation, new use cases around data. So a small company, the size of the cube Silicon angle could be out there and innovate and build a use case. This is a new dynamic. This is something that was seen, this mid-market opportunity where people are starting to realize they can have a competitive advantage and disrupt the big guys and the incumbents. How do you see this mid market opportunity and how does at-scale fit into that? >>So you're as usual you're spot on John. And I think the living breathing example of snowflake, they brought analytics to the masses and to small and medium enterprises that didn't necessarily have the technical resources to implement. And we're taking a page out of their book. We're beginning to deliver the end of this quarter, integrated solutions, that map SME data with public markets, data and models, all integrated in their favorite SAS applications to make it simple and easy for them to get EnLink insight and drive it into their business decisions. And we think we're very excited about it. And, you know, if, if we can be a fraction, um, if we can, if we get a fraction of the adoption that snowflake has will be very soon, we'll be very successful and very happy with the results this year. >>Great to see you, Chris, I want to ask you one final question. Um, as you look at companies coming out of the pandemic, um, growth strategies is going to be in play some projects going to be canceled. There's pretty obvious, uh, you know, evidence that, that has been exposed by working at remote and everyone working at home, you can start to see what worked, what wasn't working. So that's going to be clear. You're gonna start to see pattern of people doubling down on certain projects. Um, at scales, a company has a new trajectory for folks that kind of new the old company, or might not have the update. What is at scale all about what are what's the bumper sticker? What's the value proposition what's working that you're doubling down on. >>We want to deliver advanced multi-dimensional analytics to customers in the cloud. And we want to do that by delivering, not compromising on the complexity of analytics, um, and to do that, you have to deliver it, um, in a seamless and easy to use way. And we figure out a way to do that by delivering it through the applications that they know and love today, whether it be their Salesforce or QuickBooks or you name, the SAS picked that application, we're going to turbocharge them with big data and machine learning in a way that's going to enhance their operations without, uh, increase the complexity. So it's about delivering analytics in a way that customers can absorb big customers and small customers alike. >>While I got you here, one final final question, because you're such an expert at turnarounds, as well as growing companies that have a growth opportunity. There's three classes of companies that we see emerging from this new cloud scale model where data's involved or whatever new things out there, but mainly data and cloud scale. One is use companies that are either rejuvenating their business model or pivoting. Okay. So they're looking at cost optimization, things of that nature, uh, class number two innovation strategy, where they're using technology and data to build new use cases or changed existing use cases for kind of new capabilities and finally pioneers, pioneering new net, new paradigms or categories. So each one has its own kind of profile. All, all are winning with data as a former investor and now angel investor and someone who's seen turnarounds and growing companies that are on the innovation wave. What's your takeaway from this because it's pretty miraculous. If you think about what could happen in each one of those cases, there's an opportunity for all three categories with cloud and data. What's your personal take on that? >>So I think if you look at, um, ways we've seen in the past, you know, particularly the, you know, the internet, it created a level of disruption that croup that delivered basically a renewed, um, playing field so that the winners and losers really could be reset and be based on their ability to absorb and leverage the new technology. I think the same as an AI and ML. So I think it creates an opportunity for businesses that were laggerts to catch, operate, or even supersede the competitors. Um, I think it has that kind of an impact. So from my, my view, you're going to see as big data and analytics and artificial intelligence, you know, mature and coalesce, um, vertical integration. So you're going to see companies that are full stack businesses that are delivered through AI and cloud, um, that are completely new and created or read juvenile based on leveraging these new fundamentals. >>So I think you're going to see a set of new businesses and business models that are created by this ubiquitous access to analytics and data. And you're going to see some laggerts catch up that you're going to see some of the people that say, Hey, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. And they're going to go by the wayside and it's going to happen very, very quickly. When we started this business, John, the cycle of innovation was five it's now, you know, under a year, maybe, maybe even five months. So it's like the difference between college for some professional sports, same football game, the speed of the game is completely different. And the speed of the game is accelerating. >>That's why the startup actions hot, and that's why startups are going from zero to 60, if you will, uh, very quickly, um, highly accelerated great stuff. Chris Lynch veteran the industry executive chairman CEO of scale here on the cube conversation with John furrier, the host. Thank you for watching Chris. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Great to see you, John, take care. Hope to see you soon. >>Okay. Let's keep conversation. Thanks for watching.

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvents 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services inhale and their ecosystem partners hey welcome back everyone this the cube live day 3 coverage of Amazon Web Services AWS reinvent 2018 we're here with two cents Dave six years we've been covering Amazon every single reinvent since they've had this event except for the first year and you know we've been following AWS really since its inception one of my startup said I was trying to launch and didn't ever got going years ago and he went easy to launch was still command-line and so we know all about it but what's really exciting is the global expansion of Amazon Web Services the impact that not only the commercial business but the public sector government changing the global landscape and the person who I've written about many times on Forbes and unhooking angle Theresa Carlson she's the chief a public sector vice president of Amazon Web Services public sector public sector great to see you hi hi John I checked great to be here again as always so the global landscape mean public sector used to be this a we talk to us many times do this do that yeah the digital environment and software development growth is changing all industries including public sector he's been doing a great job leading the charge the CIA one of the most pivotal deals when I asked Andy jassie directly and my one-on-one with them that this proudest moments one of them is the CIA deal when I talked to the top execs in sales Carla and other people in Amazon they point to that seminal moment with a CIA deal happen and now you got the DoD a lot of good stuff yeah what's do how do you top that how do you raise the bar well you know it still feels like day one even with all that work in that effort and those customers kind of going back to go forward in 2013 when we won the CIA opportunity they are just an amazing customer the entire community is really growing but there's so much more at this point that we're doing outside of that work which is being additive around the world and as you've always said John that was kind of a kind of a pivotal deal but now we're seeing so many of our government customers we now have customers at a hundred and seventy four countries and I have teams on the ground in 28 countries so we're seeing a global mood but you know at my breakfast this week we talked a lot about one of the big changes I've seen in the last like 18 months is state and local government where we're seeing actually states making a big move California Arizona New York Ohio Virginia so we're starting to see those states really make big moves and really looking at applications and solutions that can change that citizen services engagement and I achieve in these state local governments aren't real I won't say their course they're funded but they're not like funded like a financial services sector but that's women money they got to be very efficient clouds a perfect opportunity for them because they can be more productive I do a lot of good things I can and there's 20 new governor's coming on this year so we've had a lot of elections lots of new governors lots of new local council members coming in but governor's a lot of times you'll see a big shift when a governor comes in and takes over or if there's one that stays in and maintains you'll see kind of that program I was just in Arizona a couple weeks ago and the governor of Arizona has a really big fish toward modernization and utilization of information technology and the CIO of the state of Arizona is like awesome they're doing all this work transformative work with the government and then I was at Arizona State University the same day where we just announced a cloud Innovation Center for smart cities and I went around their campus and it's amazing they're using IOT everywhere you can go in there football stadium and you can see the movement of the people how many seats are filled where the parking spaces are how much water's been used where Sparky is their their backside I've got to be Sparky which was fed but you're seeing these kind of things and all of that revs on AWS and they're doing all the analytics and they're gonna continue to do that one for efficiency and knowledge but to also to protect their students and citizens and make them safer through the knowledge of data analytics you know to John's point about you know funding and sometimes constricted funding at state and local levels and even sometimes the federal levels yeah we talked about this at the public sector summit I wonder if you could comment Amazon in the early days help startups compete with big companies it gave them equivalent resources it seems like the distance between public sector and commercial is closing because of the cloud they're able to take advantage of resources at lower cost that they weren't able to before it's definitely becoming the new normal in governments for sure and we are seeing that gap closing this year 2018 for me was a year that I saw kind of big moves to cloud because in the early days it was website hosting kind of dipping their toes in this year we're talking about massive systems that are being moved to the cloud you know big re-architecting and design and a lot of people say well why do they do that that costs money well the reason is because they may have to Rio architect and design but then they get all the benefits of cloud through the things that examples this week new types of storage new types of databases at data analytics IOT machine learning because in the old model they're kind of just stagnated with where they were with that application so we're seeing massive moves with very large applications so that's kind of cool to see our customers and public sector making those big moves and then the outputs the outcome for citizens tax payers agencies that's really the the value and sometimes that's harder to quantify or justify in public sector but over the long term it's it's going to make a huge difference in services and one of the things I now said the breakfast was our work and something called helping out the agents with that ATO process the authority to operate which is the big deal and it cost a lot of money a lot of times long time and processes and we've been working with companies like smartsheet which we helped them do this less than 90 days to get go plow so now working with our partners like Talos and Rackspace and our own model that's one of the things you're also gonna see check and Jon you're taking your knowledge of the process trying to shrink that down could time wise excessive forward to the partners yes to help them through the journey these fast move fast that kind of just keep it going and that's really the goal because they get very frustrated if they build an application that takes forever to get that security that authority to operate because they can't really they can't move out into full production unless that's completed and this could make or break these companies these contracts are so big oh yeah I mean it's significant and they want to get paid for what they're doing and the good work but they also want to see the outcome and the results yeah I gotta ask you what's new on the infrastructure side we were in Bahrain for the region announcement exciting expansion there you got new clouds gov cloud east yeah that's up and running no that's been running announced customers are in there they're doing their dr their coop running applications we're excited yes that's our second region based on a hundred and eighty five percent year-over-year growth of DEFCON region west so it's that been rare at reading I read an article that was on the web from general Keith Alexander he wrote an op-ed on the rationale that the government's taking in the looking at the cloud and looking at the military look at the benefits for the country around how to do cloud yes you guys are also competing for the jet idea which is now it's not a single source contract but they want to have one robust consistent environment yeah a big advantage new analytics so between general Keith Alexander story and then the the public statement around this was do is actually outlined benefits of staying with one cloud how is that going what how's that Jedi deal going well there's there's two points I'd like to make them this first of all we are really proud of DoD they're just continuing to me and they're sticking with their model and it's not slowing them down everything happening around Jedi so the one piece yes Jedi is out there and they need to complete this transaction but the second part is we're just we're it's not slowing us down to work with DoD in fact we've had great meetings with DoD customers this week and they're actually launching really amazing cloud workloads now what's going to be key for them is to have a platform that they can consistently develop and launch new mission applications very rapidly and because they were kind of behind they their model right now is to be able to take rapid advantage of cloud computing for those warriors there's those war fighters out in the field that we can really help every day so I think general Alexander is spot on the benefits of the cloud are going to really merit at DoD I have to say as an analyst you know you guys can't talk about these big deals but when companies you know competitors can test them information becomes public so in the case of CI a IBM contested the judge wheeler ruling was just awesome reading and it underscored Amazon's lead at the time yeah at Forrest IBM to go out and pay two billion dollars for software the recent Oracle can contestant and the GAO is ruling there gave a lot of insights I would recommend go reading it and my takeaway was the the DoD Pentagon said a single cloud is more secure it's going to be more agile and ultimately less costly so that's that decision was on a very strong foundation and we got insight that we never would have been able to get had they not tested well and remember one of the points we were just talking earlier was the authority to operate that that ability to go through the security and compliance to get it launched and if you throw a whole bunch of staff at an organization if they they're struggling with one model how are they gonna get a hundred models all at once so it's important for DoD that they have a framework that they can do live in real first of all as a technical person and an operating system which is kind of my background is that it makes total sense to have that cohesiveness but the FBI gave a talk at your breakfast on Tuesday morning Christene Halverson yeah she's amazing and she pointed out the problems that they're having keep up with the bad actors and she said quote we are FBI is in a data crisis yes and she pointed out all the bad things that happened in Vegas the Boston Marathon bombing and the time it took to put the puzzle pieces together was so long and Amazon shrinks that down if post-event that's hard imagine what the DoD is to do in real time so this is pointing to a new model it's a new era and on that well and we you know one of the themes was tech4good and if you look at the FBI example it's a perfect example of s helping them move faster to do their mission and if they continue to do what they've always done which is use old technologies that don't scale buying things that they may never use or being able to test and try quickly and effectively test Belfast recover and then use this data an FBI I will tell you it is brilliant how they're the name of this program sandcastle one Evan that they've used to actually do all this data and Linux and she talked about time to mission time to catch the bad guys time to share that analysis and data with other groups so that they could quickly disseminate and get to the heart of the matter and not sit there and say weight on it weight on this bad guy while we go over here and change time to value completely being that Amazon is on whether it's commercial or government I talk about values great you guys could have a short term opportunity to nail all these workloads but in the Amazon fashion there's always a wild card no I was so excited Dave and I interviewed Lockheed Martin yesterday yeah and this whole ground station thing is so cool because it's kind of like a Christopher Columbus moment yeah because the world isn't flat doesn't have an edge no it's wrong that lights can power everything there's spaces involved there's space company yes space force right around the corner yep you're in DC what's the excitement around all this what's going on we surprised a lot of with that announcement Lockheed Martin and DigitalGlobe we even had DigitalGlobe in with Andy when we talked about AWS ground station and Lockheed Martin verge and the benefit of this is two amazing companies coming together a tub yes that knows cloud analytics air storage and now we're taking a really hard problem with satellites and making it almost as a service as well as Lockheed doing their cube stats and making sure that there is analysis of every satellite that moves that all points in time with net with no disruption we're going to bring that all together for our customers for a mission that is so critical at every level of government research commercial entities and it's going to help them move fast and that is the key move very fast every mission leader you talk to you that has these kind of predators will say we have to move faster and that's our goal bringing commercial best practices I know you got a run we got less than a minute left but I want you to do a quick plug in for the work you're doing around the space in general you had a special breakout ibrehem yours public sector summit not going on in the space area that your involvement give it quick yeah so we will have it again this year winner first ever at the day before our public sector summit we had an Earth and space day and where we really brought together all these thought leaders on how do we take advantage of that commercial cloud services that are out there to help both this programs research Observatory in any way shape app data sets it went great we worked with NASA while we were here we actually had a little control center with that time so strip from NASA JPL where we literally sat and watched the Mars landing Mars insight which we were part of and so was Lockheed Martin and so his visual globe so that was a lot of fun so you'll see us continue to really expand our efforts in the satellite and space arena around the world with these partnership well you're super cool and relevant space is cool you're doing great relevant work with Amazon I wish we had more time to talk about all the mentoring you're doing with women you're doing tech4good so many great things going on I need to get you guys and all my public sector summits in 2019 we're going to have eight of them around the world and it was so fantastic having the Cuban Baja rain this year I mean it was really busy there and I think we got to see the level of innovation that's shaping up around the world with our customers well thanks to the leadership that you have in the Amazon as a company in the industry is changing the cube will be global and we might see cube regions soon if Lockheed Martin could do it the cube could be there and they have cube sets yes thank you for coming on theresa carlson making it happen really changing the game and raising the bar in public sector globally with cloud congratulations great to have you on the cube as always more cube covers Andy Jasmine coming up later in the program statements for day three coverage after this short break [Music]

>> Announcer: From Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation. >> I'm Stu Minamin and this is theCUBE's coverage of Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Here in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts. Happy to welcome back to the program Chip Childers, who is the CTO of the Cloud Foundry Foundation. Chip, you started off this morning saying the runners this morning got a taste of the Boston Marathon. >> They did, they did! >> It's raining, it's cold, it's miserable. >> Yesterday was beautiful. >> At least there was less wind. >> Yesterday was absolutely beautiful. So we kicked off the summit, beautiful sun, but then we had our Fun Run this morning. >> As a local, I do apologize for the weather. Normally April's a great time. We want more tech coverage here in the area. More tech shows. We're in the center of a great tech hub, here in the Boston Seaport. We've talked to a couple of Boston startups, you know, here at the show. And, you know, great ecosystem if you go there. Thank you for bringing your show here. >> Absolutely, happy to be here. >> All right, so, last time we caught up was year ago at the show. And I think it was, what, 213 working days or something? I think Molly said >> Something like that Something like that yeah. >> The good thing is in our industry, nothings changing, we can talk about the same stuff as last year. >> Leisurely pace >> No concern, let's just sit back and you know, talk about our favorite pop culture references. Chip what's hot on your plate? And what are you hearing from the users in the community? >> Sure. So this year the theme Our events team came up with a very fun pun, which is Running at Scale. It means two things. One, the Boston Marathon was on Monday, but two it really does represent the stories that we're getting from our users, the customers, and the distributions, those that use the open source directly. So not only are we seeing a broadening of adoption across new organizations, but they're getting really deep into using it. We filled a survey, user survey, just did our second run of it. In fact we didn't have this data back in Santa Clara last year. So it's been less than a year since the 2017 one. And what we found was that there was a 21 point swing in those companies that were using Cloud Foundry with more than 50 developers, alright. So 50 developers and higher When you really talk to the interesting, large scale Fortune 500 companies, they're talking thousands of developers, that are working on the platform, being productive, and that truly is kind of what this event is about for us. >> I grew up around the infrastructure stuff, and scale means a lot of things to a lot of people, but had a great discussion with Dr. Nick, just before talking about how if you were to build your kind of utopian environment You look at some of the hyper-scale companies, the Facebooks and Googles of the world, and thing is they're such a scale that if they don't have good automation, and don't have you know really the distributive architectures that we're all talking about and things like that, there's no way that they could run their businesses. >> Yeah and the reality is a lot of the businesses that aren't Google, aren't Facebook, they have to be able to think about that level of scale. To me it really boils down to three basic principles, and to me this is the best definition of what Cloud native means. Whether you're talking about a platform, whether you're talking about how you design your applications, it's simple patterns, highly automated, which can be scaled with ease, right? And through that you can do really amazing things with software, but it has to be easily scaled, it has be easily managed, and you do that through the simplicity of the patterns that you apply. >> Yeah, and being simple is difficult. >> Yes >> How much we have arguments in the industry it's like well, let's throw an abstraction layer in there, do an overlay or underlay, but you know really building kind of distributed systems, is a little bit different. >> It is a little bit different. So one of the things that the Cloud Foundry ecosystem has, is a rich history of iterating towards a better and better developer experience. At its heart, the Cloud Foundry ecosystem of distribution, and tools, and the different products we have, they're all about helping the developer be a better developer in the context of their organization. So we've been iterating on that experience and just doing incremental constant improvement and change and we're very proud of that productivity, right? And that's really what drive these organizations to say look, this is a platform that is operated very easily with small teams. I think you've spoken with a couple companies, and if you ever ask them hot many operators do you have to handle thousands of engineers, tens of thousands of applications, they say, well, maybe ten. >> The T-Mobile example is >> Great example >> Ten to fifteen operators with 17000 developers so >> Chip: Yep, yep >> It's funny cause I remember we used to talk about you know in the enterprise how many servers can a single admin handle and then if you go to the hyper-scale ones it was three orders magnitude different. But in the hyper-scale ones they didn't really have server people, they had people that brought in servers, and people threw them in the wood chipper when they were done >> Chip: Absolutely >> And they didn't manage them. It was the old cattle versus pets analogy that we talked about in the other room, It's just totally different mindsets is how we think about this. I love, For me, it was in the enterprise you know, we harden the hardware, we think about this, and in the software world it's you know, No no, I built it in the application layer, because One of my favorite lines I use is you know, Hardware will eventually fail, and software will eventually work right? >> Absolutely. I think that's the difference between, So application centric thinking leads you to Necessarily, you have to have infrastructure to run it right? My favorite thing is this whole server-less term is absolutely ridiculous if anybody understands it, but there's a little bit behind it, which is, in fact I'd argue Cloud Foundry's fundamentally server-less because when you push code into it, you don't care what operating system's underneath it, right? All you care about is the fact that you've written some code in Java or in Nojass or in Ruby, you're handing it to a platform it deals with all of the details of building a container image, scaling it, managing it, pulling independencies, you don't care what underlying operating systems there, and then that ten person platform operations team, in the Cloud Foundry world, they have the benefit of upstream projects actually producing the operating system image that they can consume, within hours of major vulnerabilities being announced. >> I love actually, at this show you've got a containers and server-less track >> We do >> And I'm an infrastructure guy by background and when we went to virtualization we went little bit up the stack, I don't think about servers I'm trying to get closer to that application. Love you to comment on is Cloud Foundry helps gives some stability and control at that infrastructure level, but it still involved with infrastructure, from in my own data center, >> Chip: Yep >> or hosted data center or I know what could I'm on. When I start going up to like server-less, I'm a little bit higher up the stack, and that's why they can live together, >> Yeah, yeah >> And its closer tied to the application than it is to the infrastructure, so maybe you can tease that out for us a little. >> Yeah, so I think one of the main things that we've heard from the user community and this is actually coming from users of a number of the different distributions. They're saying, look there are roughly, today, roughly two different modes that we care about, cloud native application workloads. And this might expand to include functions and service but predominantly there's two. There's the custom software that we write, which the past experience is great for, and then there's the ISV delivered software, which today increasingly the medium of software delivery is becoming the container image, whether it's an OCI container, whether it's a Docker image, ISV ships software as container images, and you need a great place to land that, so those two abstractions, that paths, just hand the system your code, or the container service just hand it a container image, both of them work really well together, and part of what we're trying to do as a community, a technical community, is we're evolving those integrations so that we can work really well with the Kubernetes ecosystem. There are different options for how these things might be stacked, depending on the vendor that you're talking to, I think mostly that's immaterial to the customers, I think mostly the customers care about having those two experiences be unified from their developer or app owner prospective. >> When you come to this show, there's more than just Cloud Foundry. There's a lot of other projects >> Chip: For sure >> That are coming on to the space Gives us a little viewpoint as to how the foundation looks at this. What's the charter which it fits under Linux foundation There's so many different pieces, Some kind of bleed into what the CNCF is doing, and just try to help map out >> Chip: Yeah how some of these pieces and it's this great toolbox that we've talked about in open source. I love like the zip car guy got up and he's like, I use all the peripheral stuff, and none of the core stuff >> Right >> And that's okay >> Absolutely, that's the fun of open source. So there's a couple ways to look at this. So first, the open source communities collectively. There's a lot of innovations going on in this space, obviously What the Cloud Foundry ecosystem generally does, historically has done, and will continue to do, is that we are focused on the user needs, first and foremost. And what our technical project teams do is they look at what's available in the broader open source ecosystem. They adopt and integrate what makes sense, where we have to build something ourselves, simply because there isn't an equivalent, or it's necessary for technical reasons. We'll build that software. But our architecture has changed many times. In fact, since 2015, right. It hasn't been that many years, as you said, we move slow in this industry (Stu laughs) We've changed this architecture constantly. The upstream projects releasing at minimum of twice a month. That's a pretty high velocity. And it's a big coordinated release. So we're going to continue to evolve the architecture, to bring in new components, this is where CNCF relates. We've integrated Envoy, which is a CNCF project. We're now bringing in Kubernetes, in a couple of different ways. We're working closely with Istio, which is not a CNCF project, yet. But it looks like it might head that way. Service mesh capabilities, We were an early adopter of the container networking interface. Another Linux foundation effort was the open container initiative, right. Seeded from some code from Docker, again one of the earliest platforms to adopt that, outside of Docker. So we really look at the entire spectrum of open source software as a rich market of componentry that can be brought together. And we bring it together so that all these great users that you're talking to, can go along this journey, and think of it almost as a rationalization of the innovative chaos that's occurring. So we rationalize that. Our job is to rationalize our distributions, use that rationalization, and then all of the users get to take advantage of new things that come up. But also we take what gets integrated very seriously, because it has to reach a point of maturity. T-Mobile again, running their whole business on Cloud Foundry. Comcast, running their whole business on Cloud Foundry. US Air Force, fundamentally running their air traffic control, right, how do they get fuel to the jets, on Cloud Foundry. So we take that seriously. And so it's this combination of, harvesting innovation from where we can harvest it, bring it all together, be very thoughtful about how we bring it together, and then the distributions get the advantage of saying, here's a stable core that's going to evolve and take us into the future. >> Chip I've loved the discussion with real customers, doing digital transformation. What that means for them. How they're moving their business forward. Want to give you the final word, for those that couldn't come to the show, I know a lot of the stuffs online, there's a lot of information out there, anything particular do you want to call out, or say hey this is cool, interesting, or exciting you that you'd want to point to. >> Yeah, I actually. There are a lot of things but the one thing that I'll point to is as a US citizen, I'm particularly proud of some of the work that's happening in the US Government. Through 18F, with cloud.gov as an example, but if I step back even further, Cloud Foundry is serving as a vehicle for collaboration across multiple nations right now. We're seeing Australia, we're seeing the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Canada, South Korea, all of these national governments, are trying to figure out how to change citizen engagement to follow the lead of the startups, which are the internet companies, at the same time that these large Fortune 500 companies, are also trying to digitally transform. Governments are trying to do the same thing. So we had a, we're almost done for the day here, but there was almost a full day track of governments talking about their use of the tech, talking about that same digital transformation journey. So to me that's actually really inspiring to see that happen >> Alright well Chip Childers. He was a dancing stick figure >> Chip: I was in the keynote this morning, but here with us on theCUBE. Thank you so much for joining once again, and thank you to the foundation for helping us bring this program to our audience. >> Chip: We're happy to have you here. >> I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE. Thanks for watching (bright popping music)