>>Hey guys and girls, welcome back to The Cube's Live coverage of AWS Reinvent 22 from Sin City. We've been here, this is our third day of coverage. We started Monday night first. Full day of the show was yesterday. Big news yesterday. Big news. Today we're hearing north of 50,000 people, and I'm hearing hundreds of thousands online. We've been having great conversations with AWS folks in the ecosystem, AWS customers, partners, ISVs, you name it. We're pleased to welcome back one of our alumni to the program, talking about partner ecosystem. Dominic Rav Vida joins us, the VP of Developer relations at single store. It's so great to have you on the program. Dominic. Thanks for coming. >>Thanks. Great. Great to see you >>Again. Great to see you too. We go way back. >>We do, yeah. >>So let's talk about reinvent 22. This is the 11th reinvent. Yeah. What are some of the things that you've heard this week that are exciting that are newsworthy from single stores perspective? >>I think in particular what we heard AWS announce on the zero ETL between Aurora and Redshift, I think it's, it's significant in that AWS has provided lots of services for building blocks for applications for a long time. And that's a great amount of flexibility for developers. But there are cases where, you know, it's a common thing to need to move data from transactional systems to analytics systems and making that easy with zero etl, I think it's a significant thing and in general we see in the market and especially in the data management market in the cloud, a unification of different types of workloads. So I think that's a step in the right direction for aws. And I think for the market as a whole, why it's significant for single store is, that's our specialty in particular, is to unify transactions and analytics for realtime applications and analytics. When you've got customer facing analytic applications and you need low latency data from realtime streaming data sources and you've gotta crunch and compute that. Those are diverse types of workloads over document transactional workloads as well as, you know, analytical workloads of various shapes and the data types could be diverse from geospatial time series. And then you've gotta serve that because we're all living in this digital service first world and you need that relevant, consistent, fresh data. And so that unification is what we think is like the big thing in data right >>Now. So validation for single store, >>It does feel like that. I mean, I'd say in the recent like six months, you've seen announcements from Google with Alloy db basically adding the complement to their workload types. You see it with Snowflake adding the complement to their traditional analytical workload site. You see it with Mongo and others. And yeah, we do feel it was validation cuz at single store we completed the functionality for what we call universal storage, which is, is the industry's first third type of storage after row store and column store, single store dbs, universal storage, unifies those. So on a single copy of data you can form these diverse workloads. And that was completed three years ago. So we sort of see like, you know, we're onto something >>Here. Welcome to the game guys. >>That's right. >>What's the value in that universal storage for customers, whether it's a healthcare organization, a financial institution, what's the value in it in those business outcomes that you guys are really helping to fuel? >>I think in short, if there were like a, a bumper sticker for that message, it's like, are you ready for the next interaction? The next interaction with your customer, the next interaction with your supply chain partner, the next interaction with your internal stakeholders, your operational managers being ready for that interaction means you've gotta have the historical data at the ready, accessible, efficiently accessible, and and, and queryable along with the most recent fresh data. And that's the context that's expected and be able to serve that instantaneously. So being ready for that next interaction is what single store helps companies do. >>Talk about single store helping customers. You know, every company these days has to be a data company. I always think, whether it's my grocery store that has all my information and helps keep me fed or a gas station or a car dealer or my bank. And we've also here, one of the things that John Furrier got to do, and he does this every year before aws, he gets to sit down with the CEO and gets really kind of a preview of what's gonna happen at at the show, right? And Adams Lisky said to him some interesting very poignant things. One is that that data, we talk about data democratization, but he says the role of the data analyst is gonna go away. Or that maybe that term in, in that every person within an organization, whether you're marketing, sales, ops, finance, is going to be analyzing data for their jobs to become data driven. Right? How does single store help customers really become data companies, especially powering data intensive apps like I know you do. >>Yeah, that's, there's a lot of talk about that and, and I think there's a lot of work that's been done with companies to make that easier to analyze data in all these different job functions. While we do that, it's not really our starting point because, and our starting point is like operationalizing that analytics as part of the business. So you can think of it in terms of database terms. Like is it batch analysis? Batch analytics after the fact, what happened last week? What happened last month? That's a lot of what those data teams are doing and those analysts are doing. What single store focuses more is in putting those insights into action for the business operations, which typically is more on the application side, it's the API side, you might call it a data product. If you're monetizing your data and you're transacting with that providing as an api, or you're delivering it as software as a service, and you're providing an end-to-end function for, you know, our marketing marketer, then we help power those kinds of real time data applications that have the interactivity and have that customer touchpoint or that partner touchpoint. So you can say we sort of, we put the data in action in that way. >>And that's the most, one of the most important things is putting data in action. If it's, it can be gold, it can be whatever you wanna call it, but if you can't actually put it into action, act on insights in real time, right? The value goes way down or there's liability, >>Right? And I think you have to do that with privacy in mind as well, right? And so you have to take control of that data and use it for your business strategy And the way that you can do that, there's technology like single store makes that possible in ways that weren't possible before. And I'll give you an example. So we have a, a customer named Fathom Analytics. They provide web analytics for marketers, right? So if you're in marketing, you understand this use case. Any demand gen marketer knows that they want to see what the traffic that hits their site is. What are the page views, what are the click streams, what are the sequences? Have these visitors to my website hit certain goals? So the big name in that for years of course has been Google Analytics and that's a free service. And you interact with that and you can see how your website's performing. >>So what Fathom does is a privacy first alternative to Google Analytics. And when you think about, well, how is that possible that they, and as a paid service, it's as software, as a service, how, first of all, how can you keep up with that real time deluge of clickstream data at the rate that Google Analytics can do it? That's the technical problem. But also at the data layer, how could you keep up with Google has, you know, in terms of databases And Fathom's answer to that is to use single store. Their, their prior architecture had four different types of database technologies under the hood. They were using Redis to have fast read time cash. They were using MySEQ database as the application database they were using. They were looking at last search to do full tech search. And they were using DynamoDB as part of a another kind of fast look up fast cash. They replaced all four of those with single store. And, and again, what they're doing is like sort of battling defacto giant in Google Analytics and having a great success at doing that for posting tens of thousands of websites. Some big names that you've heard of as well. >>I can imagine that's a big reduction from four to one, four x reduction in databases. The complexities that go away, the simplification that happens, I can imagine is quite huge for them. >>And we've done a study, an independent study with Giga Home Research. We published this back in June looking at total cost of ownership with benchmarks and the relevant benchmarks for transactions and analytics and databases are tpcc for transactions, TPC H for analytics, TPC DS for analytics. And we did a TCO study using those benchmark datas on a combination of transactional and analytical databases together and saw some pretty big improvements. 60% improvement over Myse Snowflake, for >>Instance. Awesome. Big business outcomes. We only have a few seconds left, so you've already given me a bumper sticker. Yeah. And I know I live in Silicon Valley, I've seen those billboards. I know single store has done some cheeky billboard marketing campaigns. But if you had a new billboard to create from your perspective about single store, what does it say? >>I, I think it's that, are you, are you ready for the next interaction? Because business is won and lost in every moment, in every location, in every digital moment passing by. And if you're not ready to, to interact and transact rather your systems on your behalf, then you're behind the curve. It's easy to be displaced people swipe left and pick your competitor. So I think that's the next bumper sticker. I may, I would say our, my favorite billboard so far of what we've run is cover your SaaS, which is what is how, what is the data layer to, to manage the next level of SaaS applications, the next generation. And we think single store is a big part >>Of that. Cover your SaaS. Love it. Dominic, thank you so much for joining me, giving us an update on single store from your perspective, what's going on there, kind of really where you are in the market. We appreciate that. We'll have to >>Have you back. Thank you. Glad to >>Be here. All right. For Dominic rta, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube, the leader in live, emerging and enterprise tech coverage.

(upbeat music) >> The market for enterprise servers is large and it generates well north of $100 billion in annual revenue, and it's growing consistently in the mid to high single digit range. Right now, like many segments, the market for servers is, it's like slingshotting, right? Organizations, they've been replenishing their install bases and upgrading, especially at HQs coming out of the isolation economy. But the macro headwinds, as we've reported, are impacting all segments of the market. CIOs, you know, they're tapping the brakes a little bit, sometimes quite a bit and being cautious with both capital expenditures and discretionary opex, particularly in the cloud. They're dialing it down and just being a little bit more, you know, cautious. The market for enterprise servers, it's dominated as you know, by x86 based systems with an increasingly large contribution coming from alternatives like ARM and NVIDIA. Intel, of course, is the largest supplier, but AMD has been incredibly successful competing with Intel because of its focus, it's got an outsourced manufacturing model and its innovation and very solid execution. Intel's frequent delays with its next generation Sapphire Rapid CPUs, now slated for January 2023 have created an opportunity for AMD, specifically AMD's next generation EPYC CPUs codenamed Genoa will offer as many as 96 Zen 4 cores per CPU when it launches later on this month. Observers can expect really three classes of Genoa. There's a standard Zen 4 compute platform for general purpose workloads, there's a compute density optimized Zen 4 package and then a cache optimized version for data intensive workloads. Indeed, the makers of enterprise servers are responding to customer requirements for more diversity and server platforms to handle different workloads, especially those high performance data-oriented workloads that are being driven by AI and machine learning and high performance computing, HPC needs. OEMs like Dell, they're going to be tapping these innovations and try to get to the market early. Dell, in particular, will be using these systems as the basis for its next generation Gen 16 servers, which are going to bring new capabilities to the market. Now, of course, Dell is not alone, there's got other OEM, you've got HPE, Lenovo, you've got ODMs, you've got the cloud players, they're all going to be looking to keep pace with the market. Now, the other big trend that we've seen in the market is the way customers are thinking about or should be thinking about performance. No longer is the clock speed of the CPU the soul and most indicative performance metric. There's much more emphasis in innovation around all those supporting components in a system, specifically the parts of the system that take advantage, for example, of faster bus speeds. We're talking about things like network interface cards and RAID controllers and memories and other peripheral devices that in combination with microprocessors, determine how well systems can perform and those kind of things around compute operations, IO and other critical tasks. Now, the combinatorial factors ultimately determine the overall performance of the system and how well suited a particular server is to handling different workloads. So we're seeing OEMs like Dell, they're building flexibility into their offerings and putting out products in their portfolios that can meet the changing needs of their customers. Welcome to our ongoing series where we investigate the critical question, does hardware matter? My name is Dave Vellante, and with me today to discuss these trends and the things that you should know about for the next generation of server architectures is former CTO from Oracle and EMC and adjunct faculty and Wharton CTO Academy, David Nicholson. Dave, always great to have you on "theCUBE." Thanks for making some time with me. >> Yeah, of course, Dave, great to be here. >> All right, so you heard my little spiel in the intro, that summary, >> Yeah. >> Was it accurate? What would you add? What do people need to know? >> Yeah, no, no, no, 100% accurate, but you know, I'm a resident nerd, so just, you know, some kind of clarification. If we think of things like microprocessor release cycles, it's always going to be characterized as rolling thunder. I think 2023 in particular is going to be this constant release cycle that we're going to see. You mentioned the, (clears throat) excuse me, general processors with 96 cores, shortly after the 96 core release, we'll see that 128 core release that you referenced in terms of compute density. And then, we can talk about what it means in terms of, you know, nanometers and performance per core and everything else. But yeah, no, that's the main thing I would say, is just people shouldn't look at this like a new car's being released on Saturday. This is going to happen over the next 18 months, really. >> All right, so to that point, you think about Dell's next generation systems, they're going to be featuring these new AMD processes, but to your point, when you think about performance claims, in this industry, it's a moving target. It's that, you call it a rolling thunder. So what does that game of hopscotch, if you will, look like? How do you see it unfolding over the next 12 to 18 months? >> So out of the gate, you know, slated as of right now for a November 10th release, AMD's going to be first to market with, you know, everyone will argue, but first to market with five nanometer technology in production systems, 96 cores. What's important though is, those microprocessors are going to be resident on motherboards from Dell that feature things like PCIe 5.0 technology. So everything surrounding the microprocessor complex is faster. Again, going back to this idea of rolling thunder, we expect the Gen 16 PowerEdge servers from Dell to similarly be rolled out in stages with initial releases that will address certain specific kinds of workloads and follow on releases with a variety of systems configured in a variety of ways. >> So I appreciate you painting a picture. Let's kind of stay inside under the hood, if we can, >> Sure. >> And share with us what we should know about these kind of next generation CPUs. How are companies like Dell going to be configuring them? How important are clock speeds and core counts in these new systems? And what about, you mentioned motherboards, what about next gen motherboards? You mentioned PCIe Gen 5, where does that fit in? So take us inside deeper into the system, please. >> Yeah, so if you will, you know, if you will join me for a moment, let's crack open the box and look inside. It's not just microprocessors. Like I said, they're plugged into a bus architecture that interconnect. How quickly that interconnect performs is critical. Now, I'm going to give you a statistic that doesn't require a PhD to understand. When we go from PCIe Gen 4 to Gen 5, which is going to be featured in all of these systems, we double the performance. So just, you can write that down, two, 2X. The performance is doubled, but the numbers are pretty staggering in terms of giga transactions per second, 128 gigabytes per second of aggregate bandwidth on the motherboard. Again, doubling when going from 4th Gen to 5th Gen. But the reality is, most users of these systems are still on PCIe Gen 3 based systems. So for them, just from a bus architecture perspective, you're doing a 4X or 8X leap in performance, and then all of the peripherals that plug into that faster bus are faster, whether it's RAID control cards from RAID controllers or storage controllers or network interface cards. Companies like Broadcom come to mind. All of their components are leapfrogging their prior generation to fit into this ecosystem. >> So I wonder if we could stay with PCIe for a moment and, you know, just understand what Gen 5 brings. You said, you know, 2X, I think we're talking bandwidth here. Is there a latency impact? You know, why does this matter? And just, you know, this premise that these other components increasingly matter more, Which components of the system are we talking about that can actually take advantage of PCIe Gen 5? >> Pretty much all of them, Dave. So whether it's memory plugged in or network interface cards, so communication to the outside world, which computer servers tend to want to do in 2022, controllers that are attached to internal and external storage devices. All of them benefit from this enhancement and performance. And it's, you know, PCI express performance is measured in essentially bandwidth and throughput in the sense of the numbers of transactions per second that you can do. It's mind numbing, I want to say it's 32 giga transfers per second. And then in terms of bandwidth, again, across the lanes that are available, 128 gigabytes per second. I'm going to have to check if it's gigabits or gigabytes. It's a massive number. And again, it's double what PCIe 4 is before. So what does that mean? Just like the advances in microprocessor technology, you can consolidate massive amounts of work into a much smaller footprint. That's critical because everything in that server is consuming power. So when you look at next generation hardware that's driven by things like AMD Genoa or you know, the EPYC processors, the Zen with the Z4 microprocessors, for every dollar that you're spending on power and equipment and everything else, you're getting far greater return on your investment. Now, I need to say that we anticipate that these individual servers, if you're out shopping for a server, and that's a very nebulous term because they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, I think there's going to be a little bit of sticker shock at first until you run the numbers. People will look at an individual server and they'll say, wow, this is expensive and the peripherals, the things that are going into those slots are more expensive, but you're getting more bang for your buck. You're getting much more consolidation, lower power usage and for every dollar, you're getting a greater amount of performance and transactions, which translates up the stack through the application layer and, you know, out to the end user's desire to get work done. >> So I want to come back to that, but let me stay on performance for a minute. You know, we all used to be, when you'd go buy a new PC, you'd be like, what's the clock speed of that? And so, when you think about performance of a system today and how measurements are changing, how should customers think about performance in these next gen systems? And where does that, again, where does that supporting ecosystem play? >> So if you are really into the speeds and feeds and what's under the covers, from an academic perspective, you can go in and you can look at the die size that was used to create the microprocessors, the clock speeds, how many cores there are, but really, the answer is look at the benchmarks that are created through testing, especially from third party organizations that test these things for workloads that you intend to use these servers for. So if you are looking to support something like a high performance environment for artificial intelligence or machine learning, look at the benchmarks as they're recorded, as they're delivered by the entire system. So it's not just about the core. So yeah, it's interesting to look at clock speeds to kind of compare where we are with regards to Moore's Law. Have we been able to continue to track along that path? We know there are physical limitations to Moore's Law from an individual microprocessor perspective, but none of that really matters. What really matters is what can this system that I'm buying deliver in terms of application performance and user requirement performance? So that's what I'd say you want to look for. >> So I presume we're going to see these benchmarks at some point, I'm hoping we can, I'm hoping we can have you back on to talk about them. Is that something that we can expect in the future? >> Yeah, 100%, 100%. Dell, and I'm sure other companies, are furiously working away to demonstrate the advantages of this next gen architecture. If I had to guess, I would say that we are going to see quite a few world records set because of the combination of things, like faster network interface cards, faster storage cards, faster memory, more memory, faster cache, more cache, along with the enhanced microprocessors that are going to be delivered. And you mentioned this is, you know, AMD is sort of starting off this season of rolling thunder and in a few months, we'll start getting the initial entries from Intel also, and we'll be able to compare where they fit in with what AMD is offering. I'd expect OEMs like Dell to have, you know, a portfolio of products that highlight the advantages of each processor's set. >> Yeah, I talked in my open Dave about the diversity of workloads. What are some of those emerging workloads and how will companies like Dell address them in your view? >> So a lot of the applications that are going to be supported are what we think of as legacy application environments. A lot of Oracle databases, workloads associated with ERP, all of those things are just going to get better bang for their buck from a compute perspective. But what we're going to be hearing a lot about and what the future really holds for us that's exciting is this arena of artificial intelligence and machine learning. These next gen platforms offer performance that allows us to do things in areas like natural language processing that we just couldn't do before cost effectively. So I think the next few years are going to see a lot of advances in AI and ML that will be debated in the larger culture and that will excite a lot of computer scientists. So that's it, AI/ML are going to be the big buzzwords moving forward. >> So Dave, you talked earlier about this, some people might have sticker shocks. So some of the infrastructure pros that are watching this might be, oh, okay, I'm going to have to pitch this, especially in this, you know, tough macro environment. I'm going to have to sell this to my CIO, my CFO. So what does this all mean? You know, if they're going to have to pay more, how is it going to affect TCO? How would you pitch that to your management? >> As long as you stay away from per unit cost, you're fine. And again, we don't have necessarily, or I don't have necessarily insider access to street pricing on next gen servers yet, but what I do know from examining what the component suppliers tell us is that, these systems are going to be significantly more expensive on a per unit basis. But what does that mean? If the server that you're used to buying for five bucks is now 10 bucks, but it's doing five times as much work, it's a great deal, and anyone who looks at it and says, 10 bucks? It used to only be five bucks, well, the ROI and the TCO, that's where all of this really needs to be measured and a huge part of that is going to be power consumption. And along with the performance tests that we expect to see coming out imminently, we should also be expecting to see some of those ROI metrics, especially around power consumption. So I don't think it's going to be a problem moving forward, but there will be some sticker shock. I imagine you're going to be able to go in and configure a very, very expensive, fully loaded system on some of these configurators online over the next year. >> So it's consolidation, which means you could do more with less. It's going to be, or more with the same, it's going to be lower power, less cooling, less floor space and lower management overhead, which is kind of now you get into staff, so you're going to have to sort of identify how the staff can be productive in other areas. You're probably not going to fire people hopefully. But yeah, it sounds like it's going to be a really consolidation play. I talked at the open about Intel and AMD and Intel coming out with Sapphire Rapids, you know, of course it's been well documented, it's late but they're now scheduled for January. Pat Gelsinger's talked about this, and of course they're going to try to leapfrog AMD and then AMD is going to respond, you talked about this earlier, so that game is going to continue. How long do you think this cycle will last? >> Forever. (laughs) It's just that, there will be periods of excitement like we're going to experience over at least the next year and then there will be a lull and then there will be a period of excitement. But along the way, we've got lurkers who are trying to disrupt this market completely. You know, specifically you think about ARM where the original design point was, okay, you're powered by a battery, you have to fit in someone's pocket. You can't catch on fire and burn their leg. That's sort of the requirement, as opposed to the, you know, the x86 model, which is okay, you have a data center with a raised floor and you have a nuclear power plant down the street. So don't worry about it. As long as an 18-wheeler can get it to where it needs to be, we'll be okay. And so, you would think that over time, ARM is going to creep up as all destructive technologies do, and we've seen that, we've definitely seen that. But I would argue that we haven't seen it happen as quickly as maybe some of us expected. And then you've got NVIDIA kind of off to the side starting out, you know, heavy in the GPU space saying, hey, you know what, you can use the stuff we build for a whole lot of really cool new stuff. So they're running in a different direction, sort of gnawing at the traditional x86 vendors certainly. >> Yes, so I'm glad- >> That's going to be forever. >> I'm glad you brought up ARM and NVIDIA, I think, but you know, maybe it hasn't happened as quickly as many thought, although there's clearly pockets and examples where it is taking shape. But this to me, Dave, talks to the supporting cast. It's not just about the microprocessor unit anymore, specifically, you know, generally, but specifically the x86. It's the supporting, it's the CPU, the NPU, the XPU, if you will, but also all those surrounding components that, to your earlier point, are taking advantage of the faster bus speeds. >> Yeah, no, 100%. You know, look at it this way. A server used to be measured, well, they still are, you know, how many U of rack space does it take up? You had pizza box servers with a physical enclosure. Increasingly, you have the concept of a server in quotes being the aggregation of components that are all plugged together that share maybe a bus architecture. But those things are all connected internally and externally, especially externally, whether it's external storage, certainly networks. You talk about HPC, it's just not one server. It's hundreds or thousands of servers. So you could argue that we are in the era of connectivity and the real critical changes that we're going to see with these next generation server platforms are really centered on the bus architecture, PCIe 5, and the things that get plugged into those slots. So if you're looking at 25 gig or 100 gig NICs and what that means from a performance and/or consolidation perspective, or things like RDMA over Converged Ethernet, what that means for connecting systems, those factors will be at least as important as the microprocessor complexes. I imagine IT professionals going out and making the decision, okay, we're going to buy these systems with these microprocessors, with this number of cores in memory. Okay, great. But the real work starts when you start talking about connecting all of them together. What does that look like? So yeah, the definition of what constitutes a server and what's critically important I think has definitely changed. >> Dave, let's wrap. What can our audience expect in the future? You talked earlier about you're going to be able to get benchmarks, so that we can quantify these innovations that we've been talking about, bring us home. >> Yeah, I'm looking forward to taking a solid look at some of the performance benchmarking that's going to come out, these legitimate attempts to set world records and those questions about ROI and TCO. I want solid information about what my dollar is getting me. I think it helps the server vendors to be able to express that in a concrete way because our understanding is these things on a per unit basis are going to be more expensive and you're going to have to justify them. So that's really what, it's the details that are going to come the day of the launch and in subsequent weeks. So I think we're going to be busy for the next year focusing on a lot of hardware that, yes, does matter. So, you know, hang on, it's going to be a fun ride. >> All right, Dave, we're going to leave it there. Thanks you so much, my friend. Appreciate you coming on. >> Thanks, Dave. >> Okay, and don't forget to check out the special website that we've set up for this ongoing series. Go to doeshardwarematter.com and you'll see commentary from industry leaders, we got analysts on there, technical experts from all over the world. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies. >>Welcome to the Cubes Coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020. The digital coverage Find Lisa Martin And then we started to be talking with one of Dell Technologies customers. Earth Camp. Joining Me is built sharp, the senior VP of product development and strategy from Earth Camp Phil, Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you so much. >>So talk to me a little bit. About what Earth Cam does this very interesting Web can technology? You guys have tens of thousands of cameras and sensors all over the globe give her audience and understanding of what you guys are all about. >>Sure thing. The world's leading provider of Webcam technologies and mentioned content services were leaders and live streaming time lapse imaging primary focus in the vertical construction. So a lot of these, the most ambitious, largest construction projects around the world, you see, these amazing time lapse movies were capturing all of that imagery. You know, basically, around the clock of these cameras are are sending all of that image content to us when we're generating these time lapse movies from it. >>You guys, you're headquartered in New Jersey and I was commenting before we went live about your great background. So you're actually getting to be on site today? >>Yes, Yes, that's where lives from our headquarters in Upper Saddle River, New Jersey. >>Excellent. So in terms of the types of information that you're capturing. So I was looking at the website and see from a construction perspective or some of the big projects you guys have done the Hudson Yards, the Panama Canal expansion, the 9 11 Museum. But you talked about one of the biggest focus is that you have is in the construction industry in terms of what type of data you're capturing from all of these thousands of edge devices give us a little bit of insight into how much data you're capturing high per day, how it gets from the edge, presumably back to your court data center for editing. >>Sure, and it's not just construction were also in travel, hospitality, tourism, security, architectural engineering, basically, any any industry that that need high resolution visualization of their their projects or their their performance or of their, you know, product flow. So it's it's high resolution documentation is basically our business. There are billions of files in the isil on system right now. We are ingesting millions of images a month. We are also creating very high resolution panoramic imagery where we're taking hundreds and sometimes multiple hundreds of images, very high resolution images and stitching these together to make panoramas that air up to 30 giga pixel, sometimes typically around 1 to 2 giga pixel. But that composite imagery Eyes represents millions of images per per month coming into the storage system and then being, uh, stitched together to those those composites >>the millions of images coming in every month. You mentioned Isil on talk to me a little bit about before you were working with Delhi, EMC and Power Scale. How are you managing this massive volume of data? >>Sure we had. We've used a number of other enterprise storage systems. It was really nothing was as easy to manage Azazel on really is there was there was a lot of a lot of problems with overhead, the amount of time necessary from a systems administrator resource standpoint, you to manage that, uh, and and it's interesting with the amount of data that we handle. This is being billions of relatively small files there there, you know, half a megabyte to a couple of megabytes each. It's an interesting data profile, which, which isil on really is well suited for. >>So if we think about some of the massive changes that we've all been through the last in 2020 what are some of the changes that that Earth Kemp has seen with respect to the needs for organizations? Or you mentioned other industries, like travel hospitality? Since none of us could get to these great travel destinations, Have you seen a big drive up in the demand and the need to process data more data faster? >>Yeah, that's an injury interesting point with with the Pandemic. Obviously we had to pivot and move a lot of people toe working from home, which we were able to do pretty quickly. But there's also an interesting opportunity that arose from this, where so many of our customers and other people also have to do the same. And there is an increased demand for our our technology so people can remotely collaborate. They can. They can work at a distance. They can stay at home and see what's going on in these projects sites. So we really so kind of an uptick in the in the need for our products and services. And we've also created Cem basically virtual travel applications. We have an application on the Amazon Fire TV, which is the number one app in the travel platform of people can kind of virtually travel when they can't really get out there. So it's, uh, we've been doing kind of giving back Thio to people that are having having some issues with being able to travel around. We've done the fireworks of the Washington Mall around the Statue of Liberty for the July 4th, and this year will be Webcasting and New Year's in Times Square for our 25th year, actually. So again, helping people travel virtually and be, uh, maintain can be collectivity with with each other and with their projects, >>which is so essential during these times, where for the last 67 months everyone is trying to get a sense of community, and most of us just have the Internet. So I also heard you guys were available on Apple TV, someone to fire that up later and maybe virtually travel. Um, but tell me a little bit about how working in conjunction with Delta Technologies and Power Cell How is that enabled you to manage this massive volume change you've experienced this year? Because, as you said, it's also about facilitating collaboration, which is largely online these days. >>Yeah, I mean, the the great things they're working with Dell has been just our confidence in this infrastructure. Like I said, the other systems we worked with in the past we've always found ourselves kind of second guessing. Obviously, resolutions are increasing. The camera performance is increasing. Streaming video is everything is is constantly getting bigger and better, faster. Maurits And we're always innovating. We found ourselves on previous storage platforms having to really kind of go back and look at the second guess we're at with it With with this, this did L infrastructure. That's been it's been fantastic. We don't really have to think about that as much. We just continue innovating everything scales as we needed to dio. It's it's much easier to work with, >>so you've got power scale at your core data center in New Jersey. Tell me a little bit about how data gets from thes tens of thousands of devices at the edge, back to your editors for editing and how power scale facilitates faster editing, for example. >>Basically, you imagine every one of these cameras on It's not just camera. We have mobile applications. We have fixed position of robotic cameras. There's all these different data acquisition systems were integrating with weather sensors and different types of telemetry. All of that data is coming back to us over the Internet, so these are all endpoints in our network. Eso that's that's constantly being ingested into our network and say WTO. I salon the big the big thing that's really been a timesaver Working with the video editors is, instead of having to take that content, move it into an editing environment where we have we have a whole team of award winning video editors. Creating these time lapse is we don't need to keep moving that around. We're working natively on Iselin clusters. They're doing their editing, their subsequent edits. Anytime we have to update or change these movies as a project evolves, that's all it happened right there on that live environment on the retention. Is there if we have to go back later on all of our customers, data is really kept within that 11 area. It's consolidated, its secure. >>I was looking at the Del Tech website. There's a case study that you guys did earth campaign with Deltek saying that the video processing time has been reduced 20%. So that's a pretty significant increase. I could imagine what the volumes changing so much now but on Li not only is huge for your business, but to the demands that your customers have as well, depending on where there's demands are coming from >>absolutely and and just being able to do that a lot faster and be more nimble allows us to scale. We've added actually against speaking on this pandemic, we've actually added person who we've been hiring people. A lot of those people are working remotely, as as we've stated before on it's just with the increase in business. We have to continue to keep building on that on this storage environments been been great. >>Tell me about what you guys really kind of think about with respect to power scale in terms of data management, not storage management and what that difference means to your business. >>Well, again, I mean number number one was was really eliminating the amount of resource is amount of time we have to spend managing it. We've almost eliminated any downtime of any of any kind. We have greater storage density, were able to have better visualization on how our data is being used, how it's being access so as thes as thes things, a revolving. We really have good visibility on how the how the storage system is being used in both our production and our and also in our backup environments. It's really, really easy for us Thio to make our business decisions as we innovate and change processes, having that continual visibility and really knowing where we stand. >>And you mentioned hiring folks during the pandemic, which is fantastic but also being able to do things much in a much more streamlined way with respect to managing all of this data. But I am curious in terms of of innovation and new product development. What have you been able to achieve because you've got more resource is presumably to focus on being more innovative rather than managing storage >>well again? It's were always really pushing the envelope of what the technology can do. As I mentioned before, we're getting things into, you know, 20 and 30 Giga pixel. You know, people are talking about megapixel images were stitching hundreds of these together. We've we're just really changing the way imagery is used, uh, both in the time lapse and also just in archival process. Ah, lot of these things we've done with the interior. You know, we have this virtual reality product where you can you can walk through and see in the 3 60 bubble. We're taking that imagery, and we're combining it with with these been models who are actually taking the three D models of the construction site and combining it with the imagery. And we can start doing things to visualize progress and different things that are happening on the site. Look for clashes or things that aren't built like they're supposed to be built, things that maybe aren't done on the proper schedule or things that are maybe ahead of schedule, doing a lot of things to save people, time and money on these construction sites. We've also introduced a I machine learning applications into directly into the workflow in this in the storage environment. So we're detecting equipment and people and activities in the site where a lot of that would have been difficult with our previous infrastructure, it really is seamless and working with YSL on now. >>Imagine, by being able to infuse AI and machine learning, you're able to get insight faster to be ableto either respond faster to those construction customers, for example, or alert them. If perhaps something isn't going according to plan. >>A lot of it's about schedule. It's about saving money about saving time and again, with not as many people traveling to the sites, they really just have have constant visualization of what's going on. Day to day, we're detecting things like different types of construction equipment and things that are happening on the side. We're partnering with people that are doing safety analytics and things of that nature. So these these are all things that are very important to construction sites. >>What are some of the things as we are rounding out the calendar year 2020? What are some of the things that you're excited about going forward in 2021? That Earth cam is going to be able to get into and to deliver >>it, just MAWR and more people really, finally seeing the value. I mean, I've been doing this for 20 years, and it's just it's it's It's amazing how we're constantly seeing new applications and more people understanding how valuable these visual tools are. That's just a fantastic thing for us because we're really trying to create better lives through visual information. We're really helping people with things they can do with this imagery. That's what we're all about that's really exciting to us in a very challenging environment right now is that people are are recognizing the need for this technology and really starting to put it on a lot more projects. >>Well, it's You can kind of consider an essential service, whether or not it's a construction company that needs to manage and oversee their projects, making sure they're on budget on schedule, as you said, Or maybe even just the essential nous of helping folks from any country in the world connect with a favorite favorite travel location or sending the right to help. From an emotional perspective, I think the essential nous of what you guys are delivering is probably even more impactful now, don't you think? >>Absolutely and again about connecting people and when they're at home. And recently we we webcast the president's speech from the Flight 93 9 11 observation from the memorial. There was something where the only the immediate families were allowed to travel there. We webcast that so people could see that around the world we have documented again some of the biggest construction projects out there. The new rate years greater stadium was one of the recent ones, uh, is delivering this kind of flagship content. Wall Street Journal is to use some of our content recently to really show the things that have happened during the pandemic in Times Square's. We have these cameras around the world. So again, it's really bringing awareness of letting people virtually travel and share and really remain connected during this this challenging time on and again, we're seeing a really increase demand in the traffic in those areas as well. >>I can imagine some of these things that you're doing that you're achieving now are going to become permanent, not necessarily artifacts of Cove in 19 as you now have the opportunity to reach so many more people and probably the opportunity to help industries that might not have seen the value off this type of video to be able to reach consumers that they probably could never reach before. >>Yeah, I think the whole nature of business and communication and travel on everything is really going to be changed from this point forward. It's really people are looking at things very, very differently and again, seeing the technology really can help with so many different areas that, uh, that it's just it's gonna be a different kind of landscape out there we feel on that's really, you know, continuing to be seen on the uptick in our business and how many people are adopting this technology. We're developing a lot more. Partnerships with other companies were expanding into new industries on again. You know, we're confident that the current platform is going to keep up with us and help us, you know, really scale and evolved as thes needs air growing. >>It sounds to me like you have the foundation with Dell Technologies with power scale to be able to facilitate the massive growth that you're saying and the skill in the future like you've got that foundation. You're ready to go? >>Yeah, we've been We've been We've been using the system for five years already. We've already added capacity. We can add capacity on the fly, Really haven't hit any limits. And what we can do, It's It's almost infinitely scalable, highly redundant. Gives everyone a real sense of security on our side. And, you know, we could just keep innovating, which is what we do without hitting any any technological limits with with our partnership. >>Excellent. Well, Bill, I'm gonna let you get back to innovating for Earth camp. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for your time today. >>Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure >>for Bill Sharp and Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes. Digital coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020. Thanks for watching. Yeah,

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Inform Attica! World 2019. Brought to you by in from Attica. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Coverage of Infra Matic. A world here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. I'm doing by two guests. For the segment we have Rick Tam Daniels. He is the VP. Strategic ecosystems and technology than from Attica. Welcome, Rick and Yoav. Enough! He is the VP product for Giga Space. Welcome >> to be here. >> So this is a fun segment. You are the winner of the infirm Attica World 2,019 Solution Expo Cloud and Innovation. I want to get to you in a second and hear all about Giga Space. But I want to start with you. Rick, talk a little bit about this award and about the genesis of it. Where did the idea come from? >> Yes, So one of the things we really wanted to do it in from Attica World this year is create address Some of the most important topics that the customers want to hear about. It's a cloud and I two of the hottest tops the industry every wants to know about it and We wanted to take a lot of our emerging partners there doing some very innovative things than from Attica technology and put them front center. So if you look at the Expo Hall floor right in the middle, we have this almost like an art gallery of all this cool innovation have going on around the inn from Attica. Technology on the idea was that we had attendees come in and actually review the solutions. They had to be really full demos for working demos. Andi could vote on the app. They could say what their favorites were, and the end result is happy announced. Giga Spaces are big winner. >> And so yeah, attendees would vote on the app and so get so big a space. Tell us about it. You're based in Israel. >> Yeah, so aren't is based in Israel or H Q is in New York. Basically, the biggest bass was we've been in the market for more than a decade, deployed like in the largest enterprise in the world. You like banks like Bank of America, like international. I ot like another electric largest airline, largest railway companies, and basically we provide the speed for the application and big data infer structures so they deploy, like real time use cases like fraud detection, economic pricing, predictive maintenance, all those different types of services that required the speed on the big data side. >> You're all about speed, >> all about spirit. If you need the speed, we're the provided for you. >> Well, that's that's very exciting. So talk a little bit about the conversations that you were having with some of the attendees. What kinds of questions were you getting? >> So I think a lot of customers, during customers of ours and informative are talking about the move from kind of historical analysis to more proactive, event driven analytics when you want to be able to instead of interact with the data you want today, one so and now you want to baby toe Dr Analytical on the moment as soon as it happened to provide it that burrito Theron your online processes and instead of kind of offline processes. So, for example, fraud detection, which is the most, is the example. You want to be able to 100 further analysis on on the payment of a soon as it happens and Emilie second level and not like a few seconds after the transaction was over. So it's again. We're talking about the speed. They're very to handle high or amount of data with related sub second response time. >> And how are you using in from Attica? >> Cool So well, We've been working lately with Informatica very tightly with both their product team, and there are in the team because Israel, India, the US, on integrating with some of their different products were basically we've built kind of what Gardner calls the digital integration hub. It's like the next Jan big data architecture, which provides you both. Informatica side that allows to ingest any type of data could be taxed logs, transaction payments, anything you have together with their medal, the meta data management and on top of it, using Giga spaces for the real Time analytics and the high performance in speed. >> So, Rick, I know that this was attendee chosen, so there's no rigging here, but I'd love to hear what your thoughts are in Giga Space in terms of the innovations that they're doing in these in these very important problems, like fraud detection and predictive maintenance, these air these air big problems. That company's heir really wrestling with. >> And I think what's exciting about the solution they had. It was a great business case, right? I think that really resonated. Attendees looking at Everyone can identify with Fraud Analytics. Everyone's unfortunately, probably on a victim of it, so they could see how it works. I think it also focuses on the aspect of a iva. How do operationalized a I? So is the whole model building piece of it, And Infra Matic has a strong player there as well. But now you say, Well, let's actually have the model we need to execute quickly. How do we do that? You know what the biggest spaces technology, but also combine it with the right historical context, right to make the right decisions. So they're really does hit on. How do you actually take a I and make it a real thing? >> And the other important part is the business case in what you were just saying in terms of if a if a customer is the victim of fraud here, she blames the institution, not the hacker on. And if there's a problem with with an airline maintenance problem, you blame the airline. Of course not the faulty problems that it was having. So so I think that that also really shows what what's in the future. What are you seeing? Kind of Mohr innovations that you want to add to the biggest space platform. So >> I think we're working to their lot about like Rick was mentioning about operationalize ing A. I so a lot of challenge today off moving from the research development training part of Day I or the machine anymore to move to production. Let's say you're a payment provider you have the more than you can detect fraud, but your ability for you to run it on millions of transactions a second in a sub lets a few millisecond level. That's the biggest challenge. And if you do it in there a few seconds after the transaction was over, then the you know the last of the fraud or the wire was already happened. So again, the operation was part of taking your more than formula that sound flat from putting in production with the scale of the ingestion rate low latest c you know, scaling on pick events like Black Friday or Cyber Monday. That's the biggest challenges on the production systems. >> Now the speed is of the essence. Rick, this has been a successful experiment trying this. What are you hearing from attendees? Did they like it where they sort of How do we Dad? Does this work? What is this about? >> I think they're really enjoyed it. Every time I look, I went over to the zone. It was full of people having deep conversations, really getting into the technology and understanding. Because as I mentioned these air topics that I think everyone came here to the show to really learn more about How are they going to get where they're going There, Cloud journey where they're going to go in there, eh? I journey. It's a great feedback from attendees. Lot of active participation. So I'm going >> to do it. We're going to see it in >> your batter. It's gonna be great. >> So now that you're the winner, you're going to be up there on the main stage, getting some recognition. That's exciting. What? What are you going to take back? Teo, I know you're based in both Israel and New York. What? What? What does this mean for your company? >> So I think the next step is taking it to the business side. Right? We want to make sure that the joint offering and the joy in partnership moves to the next stage taking it to the next customer. We have some joint customer. We have some new prospect. Were a lot of late from the show here, sitting next to me, sitting side by side with the other partners of Info Matic. I like data breaks and slow flaked and clothes are so we have a lot of joint offering and solving real time like business and off the largest, most challenging enterprise we have, like, you know, largest banks, largest airlines, largest like railways companies. So I think the next step is moving, taking it from the exhibition to the field. >> Great. Well, this is terrific. Congratulations. Once again. Really exciting. Really happy for you. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you. You have been watching the cubes live coverage of in from Attica, World 2019. I'm Rebecca night. Stay tuned

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, here in San Francisco, the Moscone Center. This is theCUBE's live coverage of Google Next 19, Google Cloud computing conference. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante my cohost. Stu Miniman's here as well, he'll be coming on doing interviews. Our next guests are the founder and CEO of SignalFx, Karthik Rau, and Leonid Ingolnik, EVP of engineering. SignalFx has been a great company, we've been following for many, many years. Pioneer in a lot of the monitoring and serviceability of applications, now prime time, the world has spun to their doorstep. Karthik, congratulations on your success. It's prime time for your business. >> Ya, thank you, John. >> John: Welcome back. >> Great to be on, we're on again. >> I'm glad that you're on because we talked six years ago about some of the trends, we saw early. We saw the containers, Docker movement, and also Kubernetes got massive growth. You had the visibility of what these services are going to look like, cloud web services, kind of the next level. It's kind of here right now. >> Yeah, absolutely, there are two things that we predicted would happen. One was that architectures would get a lot more distributed, elastic, and it would require a more low-latency monitoring system that could do realtime analytics. That was one of the key changes. And then the other thing that we predicted was that developers would get more involved in operations. Which is the whole DevOps movement. And now both of those are very much in the mainstream, so we're really excited to see these trends. >> And looking at the Google keynotes today, obviously we're starting to see the realization of true infrastructure as code, you're starting to see the beginning signals of, look at, we can actually program the infrastructure, and not even have to deal with it. This is key, and you guys have some hardcore news, so let's get that out of the way. You guys got some updates, let's get into the news, and then we can get into the conversation around what you guys are doing in the industry. >> So, today we're bringing three things to the conference, to boost customers and prospects, starting with announcing our support for cloud functions. Cloud functions are great technology that we're seeing adopted by retail. For spiky workloads, things where you have a flash sale and you need to understand what's happening, it may be lasting minutes, where our platform really shows off the best, which is the one second resolution data. Some of our flash sales we see from existing customers don't last a minute, right, so looking at this in a minute resolution of being able to react to this in a machine time rather than human time, is something that our customers now expect. The second thing we are focusing on is Istio, and Istio on GKE specifically. We're seeing service mesh adoption continuing to go both in new, modern application, as well as taking legacy workloads and unlocking the potential of taking those legacy workloads to the cloud. And with Istio, and specifically on Microservices APM, it's not just applicable to Microservices, we see a lot of our customers realizing a lot of value from tracing abilities that a service mesh like Istio provides, an ability to understand you topology and service interactions for free, out of the box, whether it's on-premise with Istio or on the Google environment. And then lastly, so we see customers and prospects adopt Kubernetes, we're also starting to see the next layer above Kubernetes coming in. And, with Knative, getting the support out of the box, whether it's the dashboard, the tracing of the metrics, and that, that's the third announcement we have today. We're fully integrated with Google's offerings, and we're able to monitor and provide you with some actionable content, just in a flick of a switch. >> So support of Knative out of the box. >> Leonid: Out of the box. >> Full SignalFx, with Knative on Google Cloud. >> That is correct. So those three things. >> Karthik, I wonder if you could give us some insight as to what's going on in the marketplace. A multicloud is obviously a tailwind to you, but multicloud, to date, hasn't really been a strategy, it's sort of been an outcome of multi vendor. So, is multicloud increasingly becoming a strategy for your customers, and what specific role are you playing there to facilitate that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think particularly most of the larger enterprise accounts tend to have a multi vendor strategy, for almost every category, right? Including cloud, which typically is one of their largest spends. Typically what we see is people looking at certain classes or workloads, running on particular clouds, so it may be transactional systems running on AWS. A lot of their more traditional enterprise workloads that were running on Windows servers, potentially running on Azure, we see a lot of interest in data intensive sorts of analytics workloads, potentially running on GCP. And so I think larger companies tend to kind of look at it in terms of, what's the best platform for the use case that they have in mind. But in general, they are looking at multiple cloud vendors. >> So we heard some customers onstage today, talking about their strategy, I think Thomas asked one retail customer, how'd you decide what to put where? And essentially he said, well, it's either going to go into the cloud, lift and shift, we're going to refactor it, reprogram it essentially, or we're going to sunset it. What he didn't say is, we're going to leave some stuff on-prem. Which somewhat surprised me, 'cause of course, especially into financial services you're going to get a lot of stuff left on-prem. So what's your play, with regard to those various strategies, and for the legacy stuff, I know you're cloud native, that's your claim to fame, but can you help those legacy customers as well? Talk about that. >> Yes, absolutely. >> So I think, what we've seen is it's a given now, that organizations are going to move to cloud. It's a question of when, not if. And the cloud form factors are just, are fundamentally different, they're software-defined. Right, a traditional data center, you're monitoring network equipment, storage devices, you're monitoring disks and fan failures on individual servers. When you're running in a cloud, it's a software-defined infrastructure, and it's far more elastic. And so even if you're just lifting and shifting, how you think about monitoring and observing this new cloud infrastructure's fundamentally different. So we're there for the very first step of the journey for an organization, to get the visibility they need into the new architecture, and many times we're also helping them understand the before and after, so how do I compare my performance in my on-premise data center to what it looks like in the cloud? That's step one. Step two is, they start chipping away at those monoliths, or they have new initiatives, that are digital initiatives, that are running in Kubernetes, or container based architectures, microservices based architectures, and that is a fundamentally different world. How you observe and monitor, deploy, not just monitor, the entire supply chain of how you manage these systems is different. So there, they have to look at different solutions, and we're obviously one of the key players, helping them there. >> Leonid, we've been doing theCUBE now for a decade, and I think John, it was a decade ago we said, we made the statement that sampling is dead. So I love your approach, you're not just taking small samples to do your performance monitoring. What's the architecture that enables you to do that, could you talk about that a little bit? >> So I think the most interesting thing with more modern architectures, especially with microservices adoption, is the complexity of how the transaction flows through the system. And then, basically tossing the coin, like we used to be able to do, in previous generations, to capture some traces and get the data you need. Doesn't work anymore, because it's very tough to predict at the beginning of the trace where the transaction's going to go. We're taking a completely different approach on the market. We look at every single transaction, at scales, we have prospects that are talking at us about volumes of giga span in minutes, so one billion spans observed a minute, and with some of the interesting tech we've built, we are able to pick the interesting things. And the interesting things have a couple categories, transactions that occur infrequently, transactions that are maybe above P90, right, the slow ones, because when look about performance and the understanding of how the application performs, you really want to know what's slow, not what's normal. But you also have to capture enough of what's normal. So with some of our tech, we're still able to keep about 1% of transactions, but the right ones, and that's the biggest differentiator with what we put together for the APM product. >> One of the things I want to talk about with you guys is how you relate to some of Google's announcements. The key things, I'm oversimplifying now, but they got a server list kind of announcement, got Cloud Run environment things, the regions, which is global, and then obviously open source commitment. You mentioned functions, you mentioned Knative, obviously open source. You're seeing open source being much more of a production IT capability, so you guys obviously hit that with these solutions, so the question I have for you guys is, how hard is it for you guys to provide that real time monitoring, because Google needs to build an ecosystem, that's what they're not talking about, they didn't really talk about on stage, their ecosystem. So you guys are a natural fit into service mesh, which they showed onstage, Jennifer Lin showed a great demo. So Google has to build an ecosystem, you guys are clearly positioned, through your announcements, that you're deeply integrated with Google. Cisco announced and integration, obviously they have an integration, so integration seems to be the secret sauce, (laughs) with cloud, to play in this ecosystem. Could you guys elaborate on that dynamic, because it kind of changes the old formula for ecosystems? >> Yeah, it's very different, right? In the old days, you had proprietary systems, so the only way you could actually build an integration is, you had to get your product managers in a conference room with the vendor and get visibility in the roadmap, access to everything, and that's why there were, it just took a lot longer to get things done. I think what you're seeing with Google is, they've taken a very standards based approach to everything, right? So, whatever technologies that they're releasing, they're trying to build it as a standard, you can run it on any cloud. Instrumentation is a core part of their philosophy of any technologies that they're releasing, such that, you have a new platform, it has a metrics library, other standards based mechanisms to collect metrics, traces, events. What that does is it makes it easy for the ecosystem to just pick it up, right? Our belief has been, you know, in the old days monitoring was all about proprietary instrumentation and collection. Today it's all about analysis. So the fact that all of this is openly available, in open source or standards based mechanisms, is great for us, it's great for the customers, it's great for the ecosystem. >> That's their one-to-many way of building integration systems. >> And that's why you guys are supporting Knative, as an example. >> Yep. >> That's really kind of supporting the open source ecosystem, ties it to Google cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, we generally support, our customers are running in every single configuration (John laughing) and type of technology you can imagine, so it's our work philosophy to just be everywhere they are, and to support all of the tech that they might be running. But in general we're big supporters of open source, in that, you know, developers are now running most software. That's the world of web services and SaaS. And developers have a preference for understanding the stacks that they're running on, and being able to control it and so that is obviously why open source has just taken off the way it has. >> I think the other dynamic of embracing open-source and standards is it allows us to focus, not on the meetings with product managers and getting an insight into the roadmap, but on getting the standards based integrations deeply configured with some of, for example, content we provide out of the box for use to your own Google versus for use to your own premise or use to anywhere else. And that's where the differentiation and the value for the customer is, not in kind of getting together on the roadmap and figuring out what to build next. >> You guys should move fast to take advantage of the lift that they get. I'd love it if you guys could just take a minute each to explain SignalFx value proposition 'cause you guys I think are perfectly positioned now as this becomes infrastructure as code with cloud. When should a customer call you guys? When are guys needed? When do guys get called in? Where are you winning? Take a minute to explain when and where you guys fit into the customer environment. >> I would say as soon as a customer starts to leverage a cloud infrastructure, whether that's public cloud, private cloud, open shift, to open stack, pivotal cloud foundry, or a public cloud, how you monitor your infrastructure will be fundamentally different, and we can help you with that. And then along your journey, once you've moved to cloud and you start thinking about how do I build modern application architectures, modern web services, devops, then we are necessary. You cannot get to the cloud native stage where you're releasing software every week unless you have a monitoring system like SignalFx. >> Great, just great. I want to also get your pick your brain on some dynamic that I saw in the keynote, it might not be obvious to the folks that are in the mainstream, but Jennifer Lin gave a demo of taking a workload, and porting it over with a small script, no code modifications, running it on a container. >> Dave: The cloud vMotion >> Anthos migrate was the product but basically migrating workload into containers in the Kubernetes engine automatically with no re-writes, she said what you, where you want. So that kind of, I can see what she did there and that's very cool and that's a game changer that's infrastructureless code, but then she moves to a conversation around services meshes. 'Cause once you get these things on a containerized, inside the Kubernetes engine, you're kind of enabled for using service meshes. This is like the Holy Grail of microservices. This is a big growth area. Can you guys explain what this means, what does this service mesh mean, 'cause once these workloads start to be containerized you're going to see much more migration to this new model. Where does service mesh kick in and why is it important and what should people pay attention to? >> Well I would say one of the fundamental challenges of microservices is what people are calling more and more, observability, right. Because you have so many systems, like a single application or a single transaction, what is an application anymore? A single transaction can flow through dozens, hundreds, of individual microservices. So, and you're changing your applications all the time. So figuring out when you've introduced a problem very quickly is a big challenge. And so one of the big benefits service mesh brings is it provides automatic instrumentation of your applications and requests in a way that makes it very out of the box to get visibility across your entire environment. So that is step one, getting that visibility. The next step is then you obviously need to analyze this corpus of data and its massive, and that's where a solution like SignalFx comes in we can collect all this data and help you really T-signal for noise. Then the last step really is how do you take action on that data, how do you automate responses? Whether it's rolling back a canary release, or shifting a load balancing strategy so that if there's a bad node you stop sending traffic to that. All of that can be automated. And so what service mesh is doing is it's providing the sub street to allow you to really provide that closed loop automation, that infrastructure is code, you know that's the movement that everyone is really focusing on right now. It's a key technology to enable that. >> Tell me about the observability trends, because this has been a hot venture funded area. We hear trace, dynamic tracing, these are techniques, there's a variety of different mechanisms for observability. How does Kubernetes, and now service mesh's impact observability, where is the puck going to be, if you're going to skate to where the puck is, what's the state of the situation? >> Well I think what it does is it makes instrumentation a lot easier. So typically a challenge when you're running a old Java application from 10 years ago, getting visibility into the app, it's a monolith. You to get the full visibility and the full call stack, that's harder to collect. When you're in a microservices world with service mesh, you're getting that visibility automatically. And what becomes more important is understanding the east/west latencies across all these different microservices. So because instrumentation is so much easier with all these new technologies, what it means for monitoring is it really shifts the focus to who can make the most sense of this data, who can provide assistance to the operators to really help them pinpoint when there is a problem, what is the potential cause, and to triage it very quickly. So again, the whole value proposition is shifted to the analysis. >> So Leonid given that, what are your engineering priorities, maybe share a little road map if you could? >> Sure, so if you think about what we just talked about, adoption of Kubernetes, or service meshes, the challenges that those environments bring both the femorality of the environments on which you now deploy compared to what most of the operators and application developers are used to, as well as the constant motion in the system, right. Kupernetes will move the workload several times an hour and the amount of data those systems tend to generate becomes fairly difficult to cope not just to a monitoring system, but to a human, right? So how can you take about what Karthik talked about all this noise and get it into an actionable intelligence across tens of millions times series an hour possibly in the middle of the night, how do you get the operator to the root cause very quickly? And what kind of technologies do we need to have as a vendor, and that's where we spend a lot of time thinking about, how do we provide actionable insight for those highly femoral environments that are getting even more femoral? >> One of the themes that's here, and already we're seeing it pop out of Google Next, and we've seen it in the other cloud shows we've gone to is, complexity is increasing, and the business model that seems to work well is taking complexity and making things simple. >> Mhm >> Right >> Whether it's extraction layers or other techniques, how does a customer, who's got all these new suppliers, new dynamics, new shift in the marketplace, new business models, how does a customer deploy IT, deploy cloud, and move the complexity to a simplicity model? This is a hard challenge. >> Well, I think that's one of the fundamental mental model shifts that an organization needs to make. Complexity was your enemy in the old days. Right, because you were releasing software once a year, twice a year and so you don't want it to be complex. But if your goal is speed and innovation, you're going to have to accept some complexity to get that speed and innovation. You just have to decide where is that complexity acceptable and how do you change your processes and your tooling to minimize the impact of that complexity. So I think I would disagree with that sentiment because I think organizations have to start thinking about things differently if they really want to move quickly. >> So embrace complexity. >> You have to embrace complexity and you have to think about what are the mitigating factors I need to take in my organization structure, my processes, my tooling, to compensate for the additional complexity I'm creating, but still release software as quickly as I used to. >> I would add, I think in a lot of ways you're shifting the complexity from infrastructure management more up the stack. >> That's, ya. >> In many ways IT is getting more complex, to your point Karthik. >> Ya, I mean all of these extractions make perhaps the underlying infrastructure less complex to manage but you're absolutely right Dave, the applications will become more complex when you move to microservices and you've got 50 pizza box teams working on a bunch of microservices, there's an organizational dynamic as much as there's a tech dynamic, right. How do you get these 50 teams to communicate with one another if there's a issue, an incident. >> And the data pathways, the data pipelines, the journey of that data, is much, much more complex. >> Ya absolutely. >> Final question, as the developers and operators come together, that seems to be a big trend. Developers want frictionless environment, programmable internet, they're going to be spitting up these services and then the operators have to run it. Those worlds are coming together. What's your thoughts on the operations side and developers coming together? >> I think they're two peas in a pod. They're two parts, they're two necessary parts. I think you will see more and more automation move up the stack. I think the place to start is really in the infrastructure layer and it will make the lives of operators of these cloud environments simpler. And then I think that automation will move up the stack as well over time. >> What's the most important story coming out of Google Next, if you can just kind of read the tea leaves, get a sense of what's going on here? 2019, whole new year, whole new game changing. What are your guys' thoughts on what's kind of going on in the cloud business this year? What' going on at Google Next? What's the big story? >> Well I think from my perspective it's very clear they're focused a lot on multi cloud, cloud agnostic and where the right ones run anywhere and run on Google. That seems to be a big push. And then the other is they're just behind on go to market and they seem to be focusing quite a bit on investing in all of the other elements, non-technology elements, to make organizations successful. >> Leonid, on the tech side, what do you see as the big in story here? >> I think Google was always found on the tech and they're continuing to deepen it. I think more interesting for me the story is about the go to market and embracing the complexity of the enterprise. >> Right >> And recognizing that not every application that will come to Google Cloud will be architected in a modern way. The thousands upon thousands of applications that have to lift and shift still and surviving some of the announcements around the service mesh are great enablers for those customers to start embracing the cloud technology. >> Tech geeks love service mesh, I'm a big fan. Guys, thanks for sharing the insight. Give a quick plug for what's going on for SignalFx. What's going on in the company? What are you guys looking to do? Are you hiring, are you expanding, what's going on? >> Ya we're in rapid growth here as a company. We're really excited about microservices APM product that we introduced late last year and what that does is it brings distributed trace analytics to our core monitoring platform. So what that allows you to do is get bottoms up visibility into each individual component through our metrics system, but also a transaction oriented view through our micro services APM product. Bringing the two together, super excited about the level of sophistication and analytics that it's going to bring our customers. >> What's the head count? What's the head count now, roughly? >> We're about 250 people right now. >> 250 okay, and you've raised over nine figures, I think? >> Over a hundred million dollars yeah. >> That's great, congratulations. >> So Karthik as a founder, what's it like to have the vision early and seeing it, and staying the course? And you've stayed on the right wave. >> Yeah. >> And now the wave's gotten bigger, what's it like to be the founder and be where you are now? >> It's terrifying at first because you don't know if the markets are going to move in the direction you need them to, but it's very gratifying when that actually happens and we're very fortunate that the world is moving very squarely into cloud based architectures, and not just cloud but all of these modern run times that are exactly what we predicted the world would look like for the last six years now. >> And you had a great team, engineering team was solid, you've got great chops. Any advice for entrepreneurs out there who are now getting into this world, maybe younger entrepreneurs coming out, building some applications? What's your advice to other founders that are... >> I could spend hours on that topic (laughter) >> I think >> Dave: Ship early and often >> You just have to continue to have faith and conviction in your beliefs and stick it out because there are lots of twists and turns, especially in the early days if you're betting ahead of the curve, you need to be patient and continue to have belief in yourself and your ideas. >> Well congratulations the world has right spun to your doorstep, congratulations with SignalFx. Thanks for coming on theCube. We're in San Francisco for theCube's coverage. Day one of three days. I'm John with Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more live coverage after this short break. (light electronic music)

>> (enchanted music) >> Hi, I'm Peter Burris and welcome to another CUBE Conversation from our awesome Palo Alto Studios. We've got a great conversation today. We're going to be talking about flash memory, other types of memory, classes of applications, future of how computing is going to be made more valuable to people and how it's going to affect us all. And to do that we've got Scott Nelson who's the Senior Vice President and GM of the memory unit at Toshiba Memory America. And Doug Wong who's a member of the technical staff also at Toshiba Memory America. Gentlemen, welcome to the CUBE >> Thank you >> Here's where I want to start. That when you think about where we are today in computing and digital devices, etc., a lot of that has been made possible by new memory technologies, and let me explain what I mean. For a long, time storage was how we persisted data. We wrote transactions to data and we kept it there so we could go back and review it if we wanted to. But something happened in the last dozen years or so, it happened before then but it's really taken off, where we're using semi-conductor memory which allows us to think about how we're going to deliver data to different classes of devices, both the consumer and the enterprise. First off, what do you think about that and what's Toshiba's association with these semi-conductor memories been? Why don't we start with you. >> So, appreciate the observation and I think that you're spot on. So, roughly 35 years ago Toshiba had the vision of a non-volatile storage device. So, we brought to market, we invented NOR flash in 1984. And then later the market wanted something that was higher density, so we developed NAND flash technology, which was invented in 1987. So, that was kind of the genesis of this whole flash revolution that's really been disruptive to the industry as we see it today. >> So, added up, it didn't start off in large data centers. It started off in kind of almost unassuming devices associated with particular classes of file. What were they? >> So, it was very disruptive technology. So the first application for the flash technology was actually replacing audio tape and the phone answering machine. And then it evolved beyond that into replacing digital film. Kept going replacing cassette tapes and then if you look at today it enabled the thin and light that we see with the portability of the notebooks and the laptops. The mobility of content with our pictures, and our videos and our music. And then today, the smart phone, that wouldn't really be without the flash technology that's necessary that gives us all of the high density storage that we see. >> So, this suggests a pretty expansive role of semi-conductive related memory. Give us a little sense of where is the technology today? >> Well, the technology today is evolving. So, originally floating-gate flash was the primary type of flash that we created. It's called two-dimensional, cleaner, floating-gate flash. And that existed from the beginning all the way through maybe to 2015 or so. But, it was not possible to really shrink flash any further to increase the density. >> In the 2D form? >> In the 2D form, exactly. So, we to move to a 3D technology. Now Toshiba presented the world's first research papers on 3D flash back in 2007, but at that time it was not necessary to actually use 3D technology at that time. When it became difficult to increase the density of flash further that's when we actually moved to production of our 3D flash memory which we call BiCS flash. And BiCS stands for bit column stacked flash and that's our trade name for our 3D memory. >> So, we're now in 3D memory technology because we're creating more data and the applications are demanding more data, both for customer experience and new classes of application. So, when we think about those applications Toshiba used to have to go to people and tell them how they could use this technology and now you've got an enormous number of designers coming to you. Doug, what are some of the applications that you're anticipating hearing about that's driving the demand for these technologies? >> Well, beyond the existing applications, such as personal information appliances like laptops and portables, and also in data centers which is actually a large part of our business as well. We also see emerging technologies as becoming eventual large users of flash memory. Things like autonomous vehicles or augmented or virtual reality. Or even the emerging IOT infrastructure and that's necessary to support all these portable devices. So these are devices that currently aren't using large amounts of flash, but are going to be in the future. Especially as the flash memory gets more dense, and less expensive. >> So there's an enormous range of applications on the horizon. Going to drive greater demand for flash, but there's some business challenges of achieving that demand. We've seen periodic challenges of supply, price volatility. Scott, when we think about Toshiba as a leader in sustaining a kind of good flow of technology into these applications, what is Toshiba doing to continue to satisfy customer demand, sustain that leadership in this flash marketplace? >> So, first off as Doug had mentioned the floating-gate technology has reached its ability to scale in a meaningful way. And so the other part of that also, is the limitation on the dye density so the market demand for these applications are asking for a higher density, higher performance, lower latency type of applications. And so because floating-gate has reached the end of its usefulness in terms of being able to scale, that brought about the 3D. And so the 3D, that gives us our higher density and then along with the performance it enables these applications. So, from Toshiba's point, we are seeing that migration that is happening today. So, the floating-gate is migrating over to the 3D. It's not to say that floating-gate demand will go away. There's a lot of applications that require the lower density. But certainly the higher density where you need a dye level 256 512 giga bit even up to terabit of data. That's where the 3D's go into play. Second to that really goes into the cap back. So, obviously that requires a significant amount of cap backs not only on the development but also in terms of capacity. And that, of course, is very important to our customers and to the industry as a whole for the assurance of supply. >> So, we're looking so Toshiba's value to the marketplace is both in creating these new technologies, filling out a product line, but also stepping up and establishing the capacity through significant capital investments in a lot of places around the globe to ensure that the supply is there for the future. >> Exactly right. You know, Toshiba is the most experienced flash vendor out there and so we led the industry in terms of the floating-gate technology and we are technology leaders; industry's migrating into the 3D. And so, with that, we continue with a significant capital investment to maintain our presence in the industry as a leader. >> So, when we think about leadership, we think about leadership both in consumer markets, because volume is crucial to sustaining these investments, generating returns, but I also want to spend just a second talking about the enterprise as well. What types of enterprise relationships do you guys envision? And what types of applications do you think are going to be made possible by the continued exploitation of flash in some of these big applications that we're building? Doug, what do you think? >> Well, I think that new types of flash will be necessary for new, emerging applications such as AI or instant recognition of images. So, we are working on next generation flash technology. So, historically flash was designed for lowest cost per bit. So that's how flash began to take over the market for storage from hard drives. But there are a class of applications that do require very low latencies. In other words, they want faster performance. So we are working on a new flash technology that actually optimizes performance over cost. And that is actually a new change to the flash memory landscape. And as you alluded to earlier there's a lot of differentiation in flash now to address specific market segments. So that's what we are working on, actually. Now, generically, these new non-volatile memory technologies are called storage class memories. And they include things like optimized flash or potentially face change memories resistive memories. But all these memories, even though they're slower than say the volatile memories such as D-ram and S-ram they are, number one they're non-volatiles which means they can learn and they can store data for the future. So we believe that this class of memory is going to become more important in the future to address things like learning systems and AI. >> Because you can't learn what you can't remember. >> Exactly. >> I heard somebody say that once. In fact, I've got to give credit. That came straight from Doug. So, if we think about looking forward the challenges that we face ultimately is have the capital structure necessary to build these things. The right relationships with the designers necessary to provide guidance and suggest about the new cost of applications, and the ability to consistently deliver into this. Especially for some of these new applications as we look forward. Do you guys anticipate that there will be in the next few years, particular moments or particular application forms that are going to just kick a lot of or further kick some of the new designs, some of the new technologies into higher gear? Is there something autonomous vehicles or something that's just going to catalyze a whole new way of thinking about the role that memory plays in computing and in devices? >> Well, I think that building off of a lot of the applications that are utilizing NAND technology that we're going to see now we have the enterprise, we have the data center that's really starting to take off to adopt the value proposition of NAND. And as Doug had mentioned when we get into the autonomous vehicle we get into AI or we get into VR a lot of applications to come will be utilizing the high-density, low-latency that the flash offers for storage. >> Excellent. Gentlemen, thanks very much for being on the CUBE. Great conversation about Toshiba's role in semi-conductor memory, flash memory, and future leadership as well. >> Thank you, Peter. >> Scott Nelson is the Senior Vice President and GM of the memory unit at Toshiba Memory America. Doug Wong is a member of the tactical staff at Toshiba Memory America. I'm Peter Burris. Thanks once again for watching the CUBE. (enchanted music)

(car engines) >> [Voiceover] Live from Silicon Valley, it's theCube, covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay welcome back everyone, we are here live in Palo Alto for the Cube's special coverage of two days of wall to wall coverage of Mobile World Congress 2017, we're doing it here in Palo Alto, covering what's happening in Barcelona, with folks over there, we've got analysts, we've got reporters, and we have friends there phoning in and sharing their commentary, certainly on Twitter as well. And we're doing it from inside our new studio in Palo Alto, and we're going to break it down. As their day ends, we're going to be analyzing and discussing the future implications of what it all means, teasing out the top news, giving our opinion and our commentary in reaction to all the breaking news. I'm John Furrier with Silicon Angle and theCube. I think the next guest is Willie Lu, who is a Facebook friend who I've been having conversations with, it's great to meet in person. He's a wireless guru, going back to his ph.D in the 90s, now chairman of the Palo Alto Research Group. Extensive experience in dealing with fixed wireless, mobile wireless, but more importantly, creating the technologies with industry to understand what's it going to take to invent the future. Willie, great to have you inside the studio. >> Thank you very much, John. >> One of the great things about having the Palo Alto studio is while everyone's out in Barcelona right now having dinner, probably going out for the evening, we get to sit inside the studio and talk about what they did today. So the big story inside Mobile World Congress in Barcelona was obviously, the devices. You're seeing Blackberry making a comeback, Nokia, you know, pumping their new muscles, bringing back the old Nokia Phone, and rolling out their new ones. Huawei, you got bringing in their Apple killer, they want to go up and down the stack. So certainly the device centric jewelry, if you will, the phone, the eye candy, the VR, the AR, the virtual reality. But also 5G. Intel, Qualcomm, Ericsson, Nokia, all the major telcos are rolling out essentially what they are calling 5G and beyond, which is essentially not just wireless, but an end to end network to be the new fabric of wireless. Not only for the devices in the phones, but the devices being the people in the cars. And the factories, and the cities, and the entertainment, this is an area that you have a lot of work in at a technical level. So I went to spend this segment talking about the picture of the future. Right? You know, obviously we need that next step up function of architecture, we need that next network. We need those next devices, that's something that you're thinking a lot about. What's your picture, what's the future look like for you? >> Yeah, thanks John. I'm the wireless mobile system architect for almost 25 to 30 years. So from my point of view, because I'm the technical eyes, from a technical point of view, when you're talking about mobile communications, normally we have three factors we have to trade off, compromise each other, okay? The first is high speed transmission, the second one is mobility, fluid mobility, the third one is capacity. Make sure capacity, right? Make sure the operator make money, right? So, before, previously in the last 20 or 30 years, our phones from the step-by-step, from 2G which is GSM or CDMA, the basic CDMA which is IS-95 to 3G which is WCDMA to the 4G which is OFGMA, including LTE. And these phones basically is still focused on one issues, even mobility issue, even high speed issue, but in the future in the 4G, 5G, 6G whatever, you know we need a very high speed. Very high speed, one giga beyond, over there. We also need a mobility, frame mobility, right? We also make sure able to make money, the operator make money, right? >> That's the number one. >> So how to, we want three, we want mobility, high speed, capacity. We, everything we need. And then single one standard is not going to work, because if you want pick LTE, a very high speed, you lose the mobility. If you pick free mobility, you lose the bandwidth. So the issue, that's the issue. We, 20 years ago, when I do the ph.D and when I was Stanford professor， I was a consulting professor at Stanford, we started the open wireless access, it's means converge a multiple standard together, converge the wifi, LTE, and the broadband wide access together in a same device. So when you have a wifi, you can go to wifi, which is very high speed, can be very very high speed in the future right? And then you go to the highway, where very fast there, you cannot get a wifi, but you can get LTE, or 3G or 2G, that's fine. So that's the research we are working on the open wireless access or open wireless architecture or OWA. And there's, it's the (inaudible) map is from TGMA, CGMA, OFDMA, to OWA. Okay, that's the technical point side. And for the device design side, my picture is for the next five years, ten years, fifteen years, twenty years, which very clear, okay? Before that, in the last 20 years, everybody their mobile phones, is still a carrier-centric mobile phone. Is means when I have a mobile phone, it's AT&T, it's AT&T, it's locked to AT&T or it's AT&T phone, right? And right now, from last year to this year, we are on a very important transition from the carrier-centric phone to a user-centric phone. Yeah probably, couple of company, Google, other company, they are working on the, on the virtualization, mobile virtualization right? Means what? Means a user can pick up different operators on the way, right? So this phone, if I don't have signal, I don't have T-mobile signal, I can using AT&T to get a LTE. And if I don't have AT&T, I can use Verizon. So we are on the way from the carrier-centric to a user-centric at the moment. >> [John] So let's stop right there, 'cus I really think you're onto something really important and I think this is, there's some history to look at. I mean if you look at wireless, I agree, this is a very carrier-centric. And for the consumers out there, you can think of just the basic concepts of most people's experience: I want to unlock my phone, right? These are kind of known terms of consumers, whether they're, it's my kids or adults. "I don't want to be stuck to the carrier" "on their plan." "I want to move my phone around." But that's just on the service. Now you want to decouple it further to the person. So, take a car. I might want to have a relationship with my car, as if I'm, going to be never buying a car, I might use autonomous cars or Uber or other services. And I get into the car and I need personalization. So this is the user-centric thing is that super important point. But now we are stuck, still stuck, in my opinion, in siloed telco stacks, meaning I'm stuck to the carrier, I have limited services, and now I want to shift that to better performance. I mean you can't look any further than hyper convergence or converged infrastructure on the data centers. So where it's networking combining. So are you taking that same approach to say that you think wireless will converge in? Is that the idea? >> Yes, when you wireless converging. Take examples: wifi, LTE, and converge together. So your phone basically is running on wifi. Actually in the priority order, wifi first. Wifi first, and then second is LTE, and then probably 3G is the second one there. So, and then if you have wifi you go wifi, and if car, the car also can be a micro base station, okay, to connect to the wifi, LTE together, and then distribute to the passengers in the car, so this is also we can, for the future, work in mobile office project. I can stay in the car, and the car itself is a sub base station, and then connect each other. There also, okay let's talking about the future picture, okay. In the next five years, okay, there's a couple companies working, already working on the mobile wifi network. So it's means if I am living in Palo Alto there, I'm moving around in my neighborhood in Palo Alto, I don't have, I don't even add AT&T, Verizon operator, I can have a mobile service because I can share all neighbor's wifi networks together as a mobile protocol. Then I can moving, I can hike, I jogging, your house, my house to there. We can share the wifi together, we call. We divide the wifi into the home wifi, and the visitor wifi we can rent the service to outside. So this called community mobile network based on wifi. That's the next five years picture. >> [John] How does that happen? I mean I just found, first of all I believe, and that's a great philosophy. And you're starting to see Xfinity do that with their current wifi, creating a little metro neighborhood network. That's really hard to pull off 'cus of the security concerns. Is it viable in the next five years, do you think that is even doable? What has to happen to make that happen? >> I think this going to be not a major issue because wifi still have a lot of bandwidth, right? And you can exchange bandwidth with security issue there. So wifi is more easy to the security than LTE, because LTE for the similar network, the spectrum is very expensive right? So that's why we cannot using a lot of overheads for security. So I always say, the most secure is wifi, then LTE. 'Cus LTE, the data, right? When you open it, there's not much overhead available for secure encryption, whatever there. So wifi you can, >> [John] So they're maximizing their signal for performance, not security. >> Yeah, not security. And wifi you can take like 40%, 30% the overhead load for the security and it's very secure. So that's not issue, that's why. That's the five, next five moment. Okay and then beyond that, when the mobile wifi neighborhood is built, right? Then we back to the traditional settled operator networks there. We'll converge together, then user for the next ten years, after ten years, user can pick up his preferred operators as he like. For example, if I'm in Palo Alto and then AT&T give me a good package, right? They give an offer, and I click my AT&T, it's go to AT&T. And I back to the Cupertino and Cupertino, >> [John] It's like network hopping. >> Yeah. >> It's like not radio hop, frequency hopping, it's network hopping. >> That's an idea, right right right. But still you need a converging network info together. >> So let's take it back to Mobile World Congress. So right now the current present is, that they're painting the picture of a 5G world where autonomous vehicles, entertainment, smart cities, and smart home are all being powered by an end-to-end, from the network to the edge, software and capabilities, from silicon software to device. >> Yes. >> So that's cool, makes a lot of sense. Now is 5G truly the enabler, that 5, 6 G is the wireless enabler for this in your view? In your picture of the future, what role does wireless play in creating this new fabric? >> Yeah, I think it's very much possible because when I say when we converge the different wireless solutions together then you have more space to focus on one direction, you focus on very high speed. We can one giga, two giga, even ten giga is enough right? And the other side, we increase the mobility issue, right? And then the other side we converge on the operator side. In the future, I mean AT&T, Verizon, it's not, they're not going to just provide the cellular mobile access only, they want to provide more service around its 5G, 6G, be new business model right? For traditional business model, you just provide the radio, the hand phone access. But in future, this operator is going to help provide more service, service-oriented platform. >> Is that consistent, that service business model, is that viable in your vision of the future. What is, or let me ask differently. What is the business model for the operator, in your vision of this multi-network world? What do they do, what kind of services are they delivering? >> I think in the future, very important service, around the ten years, around the time frame, is very important service is called mobile virtualization service. So in the future, Google can run mobile service, but they're working with AT&T and Verizon. >> [John] It's like MVL on steroids, basically, it's all doing pipe management. >> Yeah and then let's say for example, Google did a contract with AT&T for how much bandwidth every year, probably one P, or a large bandwidth. And then AT&T provides its bandwidth to Google, right? And then AT&T can do other service also, so AT&T save a lot of cost in the individual marketing. You know, right now the operator spend a lot of money for the marketing, right? But later they can cut off this cost, because Google can do marketing, right? >> [John] So it's, this is economic reconfiguration. >> [Willie] Yes. >> Okay, so here's the next question. In today's landscape of the marketplace, what would be bad behavior from your standpoint, that would screw up that future? What would be the signs that it's not going the right way in the ecosystem, because part of the things that I'm seeing with things like Intel and the big players is there's an ecosystem that needs to get agreement; That to accelerate the future, there has to be a new model, a new network. What are some signs that are warning signs for you? You know, people holding onto a certain thing, certain technology. What would be a red flag for you, if you look at the marketplace, what kind of activities would say "woah, that's not good." >> Okay, I think it depends on, for the operator, I think it's not good, in the future it's not good, you just focus on making money from the access size. Because in the future, access will be cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. So if AT&T just focus on access revenue, it's going to red flag, okay? So you have to provide total solution, right? And from the vendor side, you cannot support one single standards. You only support LTE, it's going to dangerous. So you have to be open. So in the future, I think in the future, from my personal point of view, Comcast, AT&T, all these company, they are going to merge together. Because they want provide a converged solution, right? So in the future access will be cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. And then you have to, they have another revenues from the other sides. >> [John] I wrote a paper in 2001 called "Broadband Starvation". And it was the beginning before wifi really hit, and then wifi hit and New York Times picked it up, was one of those stories. But we talked about the starvation from America for more bandwidth. Obviously even outside the US, you saw accelerated bandwidth, broadband penetration. I called it the "Broadband Starvation" because broadband starvation was in rural areas, so it always was limited by the actual physical connection. You know, the cable, the last mile. We all know the history of the policy side of the Arbox and the days of you know, the telephone companies. But now Comcast and now AT&T (laugh), they're the fiber to the home, there's some, or the coaxial to the home. They bring in, off the street and terminate it into the house. Wireless changes that. Is that a scenario where you see 5G going where ultimately, this notion of fiber to the home could be you know, ancient history? Or, 'cus that always, there's still construction. You got to still trench, you still got provisions, and the circuits to the homes. You know, is wireless an opportunity there? And will that free up more competition? >> Yeah, I think that's a big question, and a big picture, okay. I think from my personal experience, when we design technology for next 10 years, 15 years, the very big picture you think about is very important is: we're on the way to transition, to transition from the mobile communication to a personal communication. So previously, the mobile communication >> Personal communication, you mean people-centric? >> Yeah, people-centric. So mobile communication, previously we call mobile communication is a telecom term. Is means just for connection, just for envisioning connection, right? But in future >> [John] Endpoint, that's it. >> Yeah that's right. So we're on the way. Even at some universities, they change the course from mobile communication to personal communication. Personal communication means is: everything is personal. Personal-centric, right? So in a personal-centric, so in the future, the operator, the vendor, the provider think about, in the future, you're not only provider, information connection only, you provide anything a person needed for his life, including health, security, right? Everything there. >> [John] Transportation. >> Transportation, yeah. >> [John] Could be all digital services. >> The transportation, security. >> healthcare. >> And everything there and then each application will need a different requirements of the bandwidth, right? Especially for the health, we need lots of lots of video transmission, right? And this is going to, that's why we need a WLAN, a wireless network, is converging together. And then wireless is still a lots, lots of way we have to invent. >> The word "convergence" is back again, it's happening everywhere. Willie, thanks so much for the commentary. Love this, this is consistent with, Wikibonds had a research, siliconANGLE had a research, Peter Burris who was on our opening segment talking about not IOT, only IOT, internet of things, but IOT and P, people. Internet of People. >> [Willie] Yes, and think about IOT, okay? What's the major technologies inside the IOT? One is sensing technology, okay? The other one is wireless connection, right? You want to connect to that billion billion nodes together, so we need a multidimensional, different wireless technology. How to connect this billion billion nodes together? That's also we need wireless technology. >> I worry about that not happening because I think the telcos have been slow, and I think I'm seeing movement now with the telcos, that now is the time to make their move. NFV's viable, and now their business model is somewhat emerging. The question is, will they be fast enough to move? That's the question. >> Yeah, I think. >> Are they? >> That's also my question, because the moving, the virtualization like from Google, they're moving very fast than a traditional telco, right? So telco have to change their way of thinking in the business, right? >> I think Google should be the telco, take over the telco. >> That's why in the the next five, ten years, people just go to Google, using Google account to get access to the phone, to the mobile phone. You get a phone number from Google, right? >> They're going to call it Apple World Congress, or Google World Congress. Uber World Congress, if we don't. >> But anyway, we still need everybody work together. It's like different wireless standards converge together. And different company they also want to converge together. And then eventually, the target is very simple. It's the personal, it's the personal centric, user centric, the wireless world. That's the future. >> [John] Willie Lu here from Palo Alto Research. In here Palo Alto, a good Facebook friend guru in the wireless area all the way down from back in his ph.D days, as a practitioner and inventing the future. Great vision, I agree with it 100%. I think Intel and all the big players would agree. The ecosystem of smart movement right now is critical, and I think there's a huge opportunity to, to tie it all together there in IOT and people, a people-centric world. Congratulations on your work at the Wireless Mobile Congress that you started, and also the open, this open alliance, open wireless alliance. Congratulations. Willie Lu here inside theCube, I'm John Furrier, for more exclusive coverage of Mobile World Congress here in Palo Alto after the short break. (electronic music) (cheerful electronic music)