>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, This is "Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante". >> Black Hat 22 was held in Las Vegas last week, the same time as theCUBE Supercloud event. Unlike AWS re:Inforce where words are carefully chosen to put a positive spin on security, Black Hat exposes all the warts of cyber and openly discusses its hard truths. It's a conference that's attended by technical experts who proudly share some of the vulnerabilities they've discovered, and, of course, by numerous vendors marketing their products and services. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis", we summarize what we learned from discussions with several people who attended Black Hat and our analysis from reviewing dozens of keynotes, articles, sessions, and data from a recent Black Hat Attendees Survey conducted by Black Hat and Informa, and we'll end with the discussion of what it all means for the challenges around securing the supercloud. Now, I personally did not attend, but as I said at the top, we reviewed a lot of content from the event which is renowned for its hundreds of sessions, breakouts, and strong technical content that is, as they say, unvarnished. Chris Krebs, the former director of Us cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, CISA, he gave the keynote, and he spoke about the increasing complexity of tech stacks and the ripple effects that that has on organizational risk. Risk was a big theme at the event. Where re:Inforce tends to emphasize, again, the positive state of cybersecurity, it could be said that Black Hat, as the name implies, focuses on the other end of the spectrum. Risk, as a major theme of the event at the show, got a lot of attention. Now, there was a lot of talk, as always, about the expanded threat service, you hear that at any event that's focused on cybersecurity, and tons of emphasis on supply chain risk as a relatively new threat that's come to the CISO's minds. Now, there was also plenty of discussion about hybrid work and how remote work has dramatically increased business risk. According to data from in Intel 471's Mark Arena, the previously mentioned Black Hat Attendee Survey showed that compromise credentials posed the number one source of risk followed by infrastructure vulnerabilities and supply chain risks, so a couple of surveys here that we're citing, and we'll come back to that in a moment. At an MIT cybersecurity conference earlier last decade, theCUBE had a hypothetical conversation with former Boston Globe war correspondent, Charles Sennott, about the future of war and the role of cyber. We had similar discussions with Dr. Robert Gates on theCUBE at a ServiceNow event in 2016. At Black Hat, these discussions went well beyond the theoretical with actual data from the war in Ukraine. It's clear that modern wars are and will be supported by cyber, but the takeaways are that they will be highly situational, targeted, and unpredictable because in combat scenarios, anything can happen. People aren't necessarily at their keyboards. Now, the role of AI was certainly discussed as it is at every conference, and particularly cyber conferences. You know, it was somewhat dissed as over hyped, not surprisingly, but while AI is not a panacea to cyber exposure, automation and machine intelligence can definitely augment, what appear to be and have been stressed out, security teams can do this by recommending actions and taking other helpful types of data and presenting it in a curated form that can streamline the job of the SecOps team. Now, most cyber defenses are still going to be based on tried and true monitoring and telemetry data and log analysis and curating known signatures and analyzing consolidated data, but increasingly, AI will help with the unknowns, i.e. zero-day threats and threat actor behaviors after infiltration. Now, finally, while much lip service was given to collaboration and public-private partnerships, especially after Stuxsnet was revealed early last decade, the real truth is that threat intelligence in the private sector is still evolving. In particular, the industry, mid decade, really tried to commercially exploit proprietary intelligence and, you know, do private things like private reporting and monetize that, but attitudes toward collaboration are trending in a positive direction was one of the sort of outcomes that we heard at Black Hat. Public-private partnerships are being both mandated by government, and there seems to be a willingness to work together to fight an increasingly capable adversary. These things are definitely on the rise. Now, without this type of collaboration, securing the supercloud is going to become much more challenging and confined to narrow solutions. and we're going to talk about that little later in the segment. Okay, let's look at some of the attendees survey data from Black Hat. Just under 200 really serious security pros took the survey, so not enough to slice and dice by hair color, eye color, height, weight, and favorite movie genre, but enough to extract high level takeaways. You know, these strongly agree or disagree survey responses can sometimes give vanilla outputs, but let's look for the ones where very few respondents strongly agree or disagree with a statement or those that overwhelmingly strongly agree or somewhat agree. So it's clear from this that the respondents believe the following, one, your credentials are out there and available to criminals. Very few people thought that that was, you know, unavoidable. Second, remote work is here to stay, and third, nobody was willing to really jinx their firms and say that they strongly disagree that they'll have to respond to a major cybersecurity incident within the next 12 months. Now, as we've reported extensively, COVID has permanently changed the cybersecurity landscape and the CISO's priorities and playbook. Check out this data that queries respondents on the pandemic's impact on cybersecurity, new requirements to secure remote workers, more cloud, more threats from remote systems and remote users, and a shift away from perimeter defenses that are no longer as effective, e.g. firewall appliances. Note, however, the fifth response that's down there highlighted in green. It shows a meaningful drop in the percentage of remote workers that are disregarding corporate security policy, still too many, but 10 percentage points down from 2021 survey. Now, as we've said many times, bad user behavior will trump good security technology virtually every time. Consistent with the commentary from Mark Arena's Intel 471 threat report, fishing for credentials is the number one concern cited in the Black Hat Attendees Survey. This is a people and process problem more than a technology issue. Yes, using multifactor authentication, changing passwords, you know, using unique passwords, using password managers, et cetera, they're all great things, but if it's too hard for users to implement these things, they won't do it, they'll remain exposed, and their organizations will remain exposed. Number two in the graphic, sophisticated attacks that could expose vulnerabilities in the security infrastructure, again, consistent with the Intel 471 data, and three, supply chain risks, again, consistent with Mark Arena's commentary. Ask most CISOs their number one problem, and they'll tell you, "It's a lack of talent." That'll be on the top of their list. So it's no surprise that 63% of survey respondents believe they don't have the security staff necessary to defend against cyber threats. This speaks to the rise of managed security service providers that we've talked about previously on "Breaking Analysis". We've seen estimates that less than 50% of organizations in the US have a SOC, and we see those firms as ripe for MSSP support as well as larger firms augmenting staff with managed service providers. Now, after re:Invent, we put forth this conceptual model that discussed how the cloud was becoming the first line of defense for CISOs, and DevOps was being asked to do more, things like securing the runtime, the containers, the platform, et cetera, and audit was kind of that last line of defense. So a couple things we picked up from Black Hat which are consistent with this shift and some that are somewhat new, first, is getting visibility across the expanded threat surface was a big theme at Black Hat. This makes it even harder to identify risk, of course, this being the expanded threat surface. It's one thing to know that there's a vulnerability somewhere. It's another thing to determine the severity of the risk, but understanding how easy or difficult it is to exploit that vulnerability and how to prioritize action around that. Vulnerability is increasingly complex for CISOs as the security landscape gets complexified. So what's happening is the SOC, if there even is one at the organization, is becoming federated. No longer can there be one ivory tower that's the magic god room of data and threat detection and analysis. Rather, the SOC is becoming distributed following the data, and as we just mentioned, the SOC is being augmented by the cloud provider and the managed service providers, the MSSPs. So there's a lot of critical security data that is decentralized and this will necessitate a new cyber data model where data can be synchronized and shared across a federation of SOCs, if you will, or mini SOCs or SOC capabilities that live in and/or embedded in an organization's ecosystem. Now, to this point about cloud being the first line of defense, let's turn to a story from ETR that came out of our colleague Eric Bradley's insight in a one-on-one he did with a senior IR person at a manufacturing firm. In a piece that ETR published called "Saved by Zscaler", check out this comment. Quote, "As the last layer, we are filtering all the outgoing internet traffic through Zscaler. And when an attacker is already on your network, and they're trying to communicate with the outside to exchange encryption keys, Zscaler is already blocking the traffic. It happened to us. It happened and we were saved by Zscaler." So that's pretty cool. So not only is the cloud the first line of defense, as we sort of depicted in that previous graphic, here's an example where it's also the last line of defense. Now, let's end on what this all means to securing the supercloud. At our Supercloud 22 event last week in our Palo Alto CUBE Studios, we had a session on this topic on supercloud, securing the supercloud. Security, in our view, is going to be one of the most important and difficult challenges for the idea of supercloud to become real. We reviewed in last week's "Breaking Analysis" a detailed discussion with Snowflake co-founder and president of products, Benoit Dageville, how his company approaches security in their data cloud, what we call a superdata cloud. Snowflake doesn't use the term supercloud. They use the term datacloud, but what if you don't have the focus, the engineering depth, and the bank roll that Snowflake has? Does that mean superclouds will only be developed by those companies with deep pockets and enormous resources? Well, that's certainly possible, but on the securing the supercloud panel, we had three technical experts, Gee Rittenhouse of Skyhigh Security, Piyush Sharrma who's the founder of Accurics who sold to Tenable, and Tony Kueh, who's the former Head of Product at VMware. Now, John Furrier asked each of them, "What is missing? What's it going to take to secure the supercloud? What has to happen?" Here's what they said. Play the clip. >> This is the final question. We have one minute left. I wish we had more time. This is a great panel. We'll bring you guys back for sure after the event. What one thing needs to happen to unify or get through the other side of this fragmentation and then the challenges for supercloud? Because remember, the enterprise equation is solve complexity with more complexity. Well, that's not what the market wants. They want simplicity. They want SaaS. They want ease of use. They want infrastructure risk code. What has to happen? What do you think, each of you? >> So I can start, and extending to the previous conversation, I think we need a consortium. We need a framework that defines that if you really want to operate on supercloud, these are the 10 things that you must follow. It doesn't matter whether you take AWS, Slash, or TCP or you have all, and you will have the on-prem also, which means that it has to follow a pattern, and that pattern is what is required for supercloud, in my opinion. Otherwise, security is going everywhere. They're like they have to fix everything, find everything, and so on and so forth. It's not going to be possible. So they need a framework. They need a consortium, and this consortium needs to be, I think, needs to led by the cloud providers because they're the ones who have these foundational infrastructure elements, and the security vendor should contribute on providing more severe detections or severe findings. So that's, in my opinion, should be the model. >> Great, well, thank you, Gee. >> Yeah, I would think it's more along the lines of a business model. We've seen in cloud that the scale matters, and once you're big, you get bigger. We haven't seen that coalesce around either a vendor, a business model, or whatnot to bring all of this and connect it all together yet. So that value proposition in the industry, I think, is missing, but there's elements of it already available. >> I think there needs to be a mindset. If you look, again, history repeating itself. The internet sort of came together around set of IETF, RSC standards. Everybody embraced and extended it, right? But still, there was, at least, a baseline, and I think at that time, the largest and most innovative vendors understood that they couldn't do it by themselves, right? And so I think what we need is a mindset where these big guys, like Google, let's take an example. They're not going to win at all, but they can have a substantial share. So how do they collaborate with the ecosystem around a set of standards so that they can bring their differentiation and then embrace everybody together. >> Okay, so Gee's point about a business model is, you know, business model being missing, it's broadly true, but perhaps Snowflake serves as a business model where they've just gone out and and done it, setting or trying to set a de facto standard by which data can be shared and monetized. They're certainly setting that standard and mandating that standard within the Snowflake ecosystem with its proprietary framework. You know, perhaps that is one answer, but Tony lays out a scenario where there's a collaboration mindset around a set of standards with an ecosystem. You know, intriguing is this idea of a consortium or a framework that Piyush was talking about, and that speaks to the collaboration or lack thereof that we spoke of earlier, and his and Tony's proposal that the cloud providers should lead with the security vendor ecosystem playing a supporting role is pretty compelling, but can you see AWS and Azure and Google in a kumbaya moment getting together to make that happen? It seems unlikely, but maybe a better partnership between the US government and big tech could be a starting point. Okay, that's it for today. I want to thank the many people who attended Black Hat, reported on it, wrote about it, gave talks, did videos, and some that spoke to me that had attended the event, Becky Bracken, who is the EIC at Dark Reading. They do a phenomenal job and the entire team at Dark Reading, the news desk there, Mark Arena, whom I mentioned, Garrett O'Hara, Nash Borges, Kelly Jackson, sorry, Kelly Jackson Higgins, Roya Gordon, Robert Lipovsky, Chris Krebs, and many others, thanks for the great, great commentary and the content that you put out there, and thanks to Alex Myerson, who's on production, and Alex manages the podcasts for us. Ken Schiffman is also in our Marlborough studio as well, outside of Boston. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, they help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters, and Rob Hoff is our Editor-in-Chief at SiliconANGLE and does some great editing and helps with the titles of "Breaking Analysis" quite often. Remember these episodes, they're all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, just search for "Breaking Analysis Podcasts". I publish each on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com, and you could email me, get in touch with me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or you can DM me @dvellante or comment on my LinkedIn posts, and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis". (upbeat music)

>>live from Denver, Colorado. It's the Q covering com vault. Go 2019. Brought to you by combo. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of combo go 19 from Colorado. Lisa Martin with stupid man. I got a couple of guys joining us with some really cool stuff to talk about. We've got robbed Colusa in the S V p and G m of metallic a combat venture. And we've got Michael, some principal architect from serious computer solutions. Guys, welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. Thanks for having us. >>Yeah. So some big stuff came out yesterday. Metallic Rob, you are a convo, O g. I worked in the back, like, 10 years ago. I can't even believe it's been that long since I was there. But a lot of change in coma in the last nine months alone. Metallic came out yesterday. We're seeing a lot of momentum excitement around what come boats during strategically talk to us about metallic. What is it besides a cool name? And why is this so exciting? >>It's exciting for me for two reasons Specifically what we're doing with innovation. We've been an innovator and leader for two decades, but focusing on, things have changed. People have moved to cloud. People are looking at hybrid solutions. And with that comes SAS. So to me it's completing. I don't wanna say completing, but getting to that choice that that menu of options, the right ones not too confusing but the right ones. And so with metallic, we brought a sass portfolio to market around back in recovery aimed at some of the more common use cases. And the thing that was really exciting for me about this waas. We had this I p from the last two decades. Yet Sanjay empowered said, Look, I really want you innovate quickly. You've got all this I p put together a start up in the company marketing people working with engineering. And that's critical with the SAS offer because it's all about experience, >>right? Rob, I got all this I p We just had Sanjay on talking about all the patterns they have kind of going through my head. I'm like, Well, if you had all of these pieces we've been talking about Sascha now for you know, quite a few years. Why now? What? What has changed or what was the enabling piece other than Sanjay say and go that made metallic come to fruition now, rather that it hadn't before. >>Yeah, that's that's a good one. We've been working with partners and customers. Fact. I just talked to one, said Rob, I've wanted this for for a while. I think a lot of things came together, one putting together this start up approach to get the team's working cross functionally. That wasn't something we were accustomed to. So it wasn't just Sanjay saying Go. It was kind of doing things a little differently. I think The other thing looking at the market opportunity that we validate with our customers and an analyst. There's $1.6 billion target addressable market. Many customers are busy, Many customers are custom consuming lots of products, SAS or cloud and this just makes sense. So that's why we did it now. >>All right, well, so Michael Serious is a launch partner from metallic. My understanding. This is 100% built for the channel. Tell us what this means for your world, and your customers >>were really excited because this opens up the world of com vault toe a whole group of customers that we wouldn't focus on before with so you know, we're able to go in with our inside sales teams and with customers that maybe don't have full time employees for backup to spend, you know, multiple hours every day, Karen feeding for a larger, more advanced system. So this way you can off load a lot of that. Maybe not the ownership of back up, but at least the management of the infrastructure for you takes a lot of the overhead away they don't have to worry about. Okay, what about two sites? How did I manage that where, you know, that's a lot of complex stuff, So we're bringing in a company now that has 20 years experience. There's been a lot of new startups in the SAS area, but they don't have 20 years experience of knowing what the customers were looking for and back up and how they do it. And and to be honest, you learn a lot from your mistakes. And 20 years you made some mistakes. Everybody does, and they still have those mistakes to make, and these guys can all, you know, bring that to the customer, and then they don't have to worry about >>it. I'd liketo add to that a bit. So that's been the hardest thing is we have 20 years of innovation. We've got that. I'll call it a war chest, 812 patents. Who has that? And now it's like, Okay, Sascha, Sirs, want this unique experience? There's temptation to dip into the war chest. So we kind of moved everything out of the way and said, Let's take a fresh approach. Let's do a whole customer journey map. Let's worry about the experience. So the reason why we're able to innovate so quickly because we had this chest of patents andan enabled us to really focus on the customer and the partner experience to get it right. >>Can you talk a little bit about the combat adventures? When I saw that, that that's interesting. Is this kind of like what you're talking about? Like a startup within combo? Yes, Why was that important? >>It is important to us for two reasons. One, the brand brands about experience, right, and we needed to signal that internally, I mean, were traditionally executing really well in the enterprise space. Yes, we have mid market in some smaller customers, but we're known for handling big multi petting my customers, and we're known for maybe traditional approaches. So the brand allowed us to redefine and attach to that inexperience. The combo adventure part signaled the stability in the trust in a vendor that's been there for two decades with innovation. That's why we did that. >>Michael Being a sass offering the go to market has to be a little bit different. My understanding There's also like a 40 day, 45 day try A like, you know, full blown. You know, not just some, you know, test version of it. How will this change the way, or will it change the way you gotta market? >>It does change it quite drastically because the customer can get involved, they can start playing with it. They can ask for assistance during any time during that. But the nice thing is, after that 45 days, you don't lose what you did it it wasn't gonna download this. I'm gonna test it in my own little lab. You could be testing it with real world scenarios and then flip a switch. Your active you're going and what's nice is is is as that grows, right. I mean launch. They were recovering 90% of the workload people are doing and then immediately were growing it. But you know where they're gonna take this in the future, we'll be able to tie in to some of the old ways with the old combo and bring in the new >>Do you have no 3 65 practice of this ties into our >>we do and we actually have been. We were so excited for this because we were You know, we've been looking for a way to package not only Office 3 65 which which combo has done so well in the past, but but really touch those other customers that we weren't normally getting into with it. And everybody, especially the smaller companies, are using office 3 65 Nowadays, nobody has exchange on site. So being able to reach those and have that holistic message ease of use, the user interfaces you were saying is just it's it takes, what do we what other companies were doing? And it just makes it so much simpler >>When I saw the child at 45 days. Don't normally see that often. It's a 15 day trial and maybe you could mix it up to 30 days. And one of the things I heard during your keynote this morning was no posies talk to me about that as a differentiator. >>Yeah, maybe we'll both handle this. So there's two things one in this next six months will be learning a bit. We're gonna evolve just like a sass product does being fresh. So >>that may >>change. But what we found in our talk was many of the customers many of the other says products and they don't even have Ah, you're up in 15 minutes. That's right. It is. And some of them they have 30 day trials, but they let you extend it forever. And so what we found is many customers want to try and end a month back up, so tying it to 15 days isn't enough time to look. I think the unique differentiator, what we did because we re mapped all our business systems is of Michael has a customer that he's brought into this trial. He's gonna be informed where they are in the trial. He's going to see they did a backup. So just because it is 45 days we've got all this communication flowing back to the partner, so they can immediately say, Hey, you've already done a backup. You done to restore What else do you need? And we absolutely certainly hope that Michael or someone else's serious can close it quicker. I don't >>know too many times. People with P O sees they download the code, and they immediately get pulled into something else. So now we have a checks and balances we can communicate with combo. We know where they are. If some stagnating, they've had it for a couple days, they've moved on to another project. They take a week's vacation, they can come back to it. We can. We can know that we can engage with them and say, Hey, can we help out in some way? >>And is this sorry? Starting with office 3 65 is that kind of door opener to employ servers PM's for metallic for those minions. >>So right now we have three offers. I didn't cover that, so we've got three separate offers, but they're all the same thing, but you can consume VM file sequel. You can buy that separately if you want to buy Officer 65 separately, you can or metallic and point back in recovery. So we have all three of those in the suite, and we do anticipate some customers will come in and buy one. We've seen some trial activity already since launch where there's customers trying two or three. So there's a lot of incentive for them to go with multiple products in this. All right, >>So Rob Com Bold already has its core product releasing on a 90 day cadence. But bring us inside. From a development standpoint, Metallica's now is. It's as product. How's that need to change your methodology? What? What can customers expect from kind of a release cadence and gives a little bit as to what you might expect kind of over next six months? Sure. >>So I have my own engineering team. Like I said, it's a start up. So we're doing using a Dev Dev ops agile approach. We have two week sprints, and so if there is something critical that we think, see, they're gonna be a differentiator, maybe add value to the partner experience on the business system aside, or make it just that much easier for the customer that much more secure. We absolutely have worked out how to bring fresh features in that don't disrupt our customers like all modern SAS products do. So it'll be a little bit different experience with the SAS product than, say, a perpetual product, because the touch that we have into the into the product ourselves. >>You know, when you talked about the customer experience a few minutes ago, Rob in terms of even the design of comfort ventures, we can't go toe any event. Whatever technology we're talking about, customer experiences table states right and and as customers, if you're you know, 90 consumer, what not you are a consumer in your regular life. And so there's all these expectations that come from. I could go on Amazon and get anything that I wanted in 16 hours in 24 hours, and then we go into by software as business folks. The same expectation presents the user experience. I'm glad that you brought that up. That's like I said, it's table stakes for any organizations. Make or break >>right. I think for us that was like most of our focus, and I think to your point, since they can kind of go anywhere now. Then go to Amazon, try something. Then they jump in. Go to Azure. We thought it was really important to connect with the partners because of partners with ones that have usually solve what, 5 to 10 different I your business problems. And so we thought it was a smart thing to not only do that quick trial, but really go to market 100% with partners because they're the ones that helped the customer kind of make sense of it. All people get in there, they get frustrated trying 10 different things. So we kind of wanted to have that balance with this sort off. >>Well, And what we love out of this, which is so unique in the industry, is if we have that relationship with them, we know where they're consuming data and storage in the cloud. And with combo with metallic, we can bring our own storage. That customer already has. But there's a lot of customers that don't have that yet. Maybe they just have office 3 65 They're dabbling and cloud. Make it easy. I can use their storage right away. So having both those options makes our value. Add your perfect, >>Rob. Maybe you call it be called SAS. Plus, Yes, up on the keynote. So in my mind, one of the beauties of sass is I don't want to worry about anything. You know, I care about my data on everything below that in the stack. You know, it's like, you know, ordering delivery pizza. You're taking care of everything. They're so snapping a copy onto my own data center stuff leveraging storage from AWS and azure. I understand you want flexibility and choice, but, you know, how do I get concerned that, you know, while you've just added a whole level of complexity that my customers shouldn't have to worry about >>Oh, that's that's a great question. S o its ass out of the box. So all the data, all the control plane in the cloud, the option to be SAS plus, what we found in talking and hearing from hundreds of people was and >>we thought >>they'd say the same thing you did, and there were a variety of them, the dead. But if some said, Hey, I've got a physics issue. I've got 200 terabytes on Prem. I like the simplicity of this or my companies Cloud Vendor A or a cloud vendor B. I don't like having a copy in that clown. I've already got my largest. Some people are buying us for a department. They've got the enterprise on one cloud vendor. So So Back, back rolling back out of the box ass sask plus there for those unique requirements. And that's why we talk about flexible in on the customers own terms. We don't force them all of the cloud if there's compliance or other needs. GDP are whatever they can go to that use case for that workload. That makes sense. >>So yeah. So the news yesterday, just Michael from you. What? Some of the feedback within some of the customers have been doing the trial. What are some of the things that you're hearing? It's already taking in and gleaning insights from how they're using it. >>Well, to be honest, what they found with some other SAS offerings was they were kind of pigeonholed into exactly what they offered and nothing more, nothing less and having the option of having ah ah transport method on Prem having your own cloud. All of these options, they were extremely happy to have they were like, we're no longer being forced yet. It was presented in a way that they don't feel overwhelmed with the different options. A CZ you're saying by default you have the storage one button check I enter in my credentials. Now I'm using my own storage. They make it very simple, works you through the entire thing. The Wizards, the way they have really simplified the program. I was really surprised from come up because I think the command center, the U I within within traditional combo did very good on simplifying things. And they took, like, How can you make it easier? And with you I for metallic is way. It really talks to the SAS customers >>where some of the expected business outcomes I'm thinking like lower TCO, you know, eliminated or lower storage hardware costs big improvements to like FT time. What are some of the things that you're expecting? Customers t claim. >>To be honest, I think the most exciting thing that I've heard for my customers is that they're able to doom or so they weren't backing up everything that they needed to back up because they didn't have time. They didn't have the expertise, and so now they're gonna be able to protect things they've never been able to do in the past, just because of those limitations, >>and hopefully be able to actually see the data and extract insights from that. >>And I think from the value perspective, what was already mentioned. If they already have infrastructure that they want a leverage, you don't have to go buy something else. A lot of the other offers in the market kind of make you buy. Assuming you want to go there. That's one the other one is. If you look at the market, there's a lot of point products out there, so they start using one. Maybe it's not metallic. That happens, and then it has a scale issue. Then they're buying something else. So I think having a portfolio that matches a lot of use cases versus just today for launching a point product, I wouldn't be so excited. But being ableto handle the most common workloads across the market, I think that's that's goodness for them from a complex in R A Y t o type perspective, >>exciting stuff, guys. Well, congratulations on the launch and the expansion of the markets the next year you gotta bring some metallic customers that we can really dig into it with them and see what's really going on. >>Yes, we're excited about that. >>Rob. Michael, thank you for joining me on >>the show >>today. We appreciate it. First. You minimum. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from coma. Go 19.

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way. >> Welcome back to Miami. Everybody watching the Cube, The leader in live tech coverage. This is Day two of the mon 2019 3 cubes. Third year at V mon, We did New Orleans. We did Chicago last year. Course here at the Fountain Blue in Miami. Great venue for an event like this. I'm Dave a lot. It was my co host, Peter Burroughs. Abba Dabbas. Eye is Adi is here. He's the head of a Charles Russell speech. Liza London based law firm. How about great. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thankyou. So you tell us about this judge. Interesting name. Charles Russell. Speech lease. It was a merger of two firms, Right. Tell us how it all came about. >> Back in 2,014 Charles, loss of species performed for a merger between two different companies. Charles docile and speaks Lee Burcham from a 90 perspective. That was very interesting for the two departments coming together s So we have a limited time period where we had to merge these two companies Two different systems different data centers, different data sets. So it was formed by emerging back in 2,014 for five years on way here today >> that we see this a lot, you know, Emanate goes down. The acquiring company of this sounds like it was a merger. You know, they sort of battle. Okay, who's going toe? Really? Which framework is going to win? Because I'm sure had that conversation. But so to take us through that merger, what it entailed what? What the scenario looked like and how you plan for it. Sure. >> So I was part of the Charles. Also legacy Charles Russell team on, then obviously speaks about. Some had their own team as well. So initially, when we first found out about the merger, it was essential for the two teams to get together to work out. Okay, What systems? You have free mail. What systems you have for document management system playing trump cards. Which is who's got the best system and which way do we wantto move forward? A little. >> Ah, >> so but being a law firm, most law firms around the world and in the UK especially used the same types of software so essentially that from that perspective it was It was it was quite simple. But then way had to work out. How do we How do we go forward with this? Because two different headquarters in the London area. Which office do we move into? Sort of logistics around that. Can we fit in pre merger? It was six. Charles Lawson had sickle. Roughly 600 people, especially birds, had roughly 500 people. So pretty comparable. Yeah, yeah. So working out space logistics was was an issues >> making that even even more complicated, right? Yeah. >> One of the things that's interesting about a law firm, like versus a traditional manufacturer or AW financial services firm that has a lot of very fast right writing systems and have to scale on those lines is a law firms feature very complex dogs, very complex in from out of files, a lot of files that are written. But at the same time, you have to be repurposed to a lot of different work flows very sensitive to external contingent regulatory change. And so you have all of that happening, especially, I mean, two years ago from now on MySpace steak, and it was you're getting into brexit stuff, too, so that also had to be a source of uncertainty. So how has it been combining external regulatory issues the way that technology is being used in law firms and some of the new work clothes that you guys trying to support? And then adding, On top of that, the complexity of bringing these two firm GPR >> GPO itself was It was a year old project for us on. Obviously, we've got offices. The Middle East, but obviously is in the Far East on DH in Central Europe has well, so data logistics or where it sits, is an issue for us as well. So GDP, ours being a big project for us in terms of the merger itself. It was it was very, very difficult for the two I T departments to come together on actually work out. How how do we go to one unified systems? Essentially one doctor man, just in one email system. All of that took a lot of plan in law project management on essentially within the legal press itself. We got doubted in the time frames that we had that we can achieve it on within. I think It was 18 month period. We had merged order, different systems and various offices because speech the Bertram and Time is what I had. Offices in Zurich and Geneva were to merge with different offices together as well. So it was. It was a big, big task for the i T department on the firm itself. >> They're very tight migration deadlines. And and as you started to approach those deadlines you had to worry about, Okay, When we're going to cut over, how do we avoid downtime? How do we make sure that we don't? You know, I have bad data, data, corruption and the like. So how did you plan for that? And how did it go? >> So wait, we're here. C'mon on DH. Veen was It was it was a big part of our migration process. So where we had two different parts of the business Different storage systems, Different actualization system's way used to mean a CZ. The middleman basically, to my great data, from one day to center to another, using swink it. So where there was a large amount of terabytes and terabytes, amount of data way had swing kit available to us using team were able to be to be essentially a love the environments into the swing care and then bring them over to the other side of the business. And vain was essentially part on on top of that, making sure that the data that we were coming that will bring in a cross is true and not corrupt on DH, that using some of their technology is sure backups and stuff like that really, really was essential to, you know, do migration going well >> And was was Wien installed and both organizations at the time? Or was that something that you had to sort of redeploy? >> And yeah, So Legacy Charles also had way was actually myself going back probably eight years ago. Version For a time, I think team had 20,000 customers. So to here >> there were version 10 now 33 150 >> 1,001,000, 4,000 month. >> That makes me proud that we invested in vain when we did good car. So yeah, it was It was a good call from us, and essentially three other side of the business did not have. But then we just wait. Expanded our Venus State to look at both sides and then bring him across on. And then, ever since then, we've grown our vamos state across the world, across all of officers. So >> So how did you do that? So that was that was another migration that had to occur. And did you? You kind of do those simultaneously. Did you do the theme of migration first, and then bring the two systems together? >> Do you seem to do Stouffer special sauce in the migration? >> Yeah. So Veen was essentially a tool that we used to my great data sensors from one data center to another using their backup technology using their replication technology, we were able to replicate all of one side's virtual machines to the other. And then that gave us that gave us the flexibility as well. When when we had the limited down time periods that we've had, they give us the flexibility to actually Circe the business is during these particular ours. We're not gonna be able to You're not gonna have access to these systems because we're going to bring up systems from point A to point B. So veen was essential to them if >> you had to do it over again. If he had a mulligan, what would you have done differently? What what advice might you give to somebody who's trying to go through a similar migration? >> I would say Give your partners and lawyers more realistic time. Pray the time frame that we would get. >> Or don't let them give you an unrealistic time for him. >> Exactly. Yeah, so says ensured that the amount of work it's it's not just day to itself. You know, we're talking network and we're talking security. We're talking, you know, to to similar sized companies coming together. We were very, very limited time frame, consolidating all of their systems into one which is essential for the two parts of the business to collaborate together because, you know, way could have taken our time. We could have got to take this free four years a CE, far as we're concerned. But the fact that we did do it in such a quick time for him and that business to parts of the business from Day one can collaborate much better with each other. So >> we talked a lot about digital business transformation and you know, our approach or our observations on the digital business transformations, the process by which you altar and change your firm to re institutionalize the work. Change your game. Tomato Grover. All governments model as you use data as an asset, so that's affecting every firm everywhere. How's it affecting a law firm and you know your law from specifically on? How is that going to change your stance in your approach to data protection >> Data is incredibly important to unlawful. A zit is to most most organizations, but in terms of, you know, one of one of the things that's quite important in terms of law firms. We work with the financial institutions, so we held information by that. We hold personal data way hold all times of information. Charles Oscar speech leads works with Aware is of law apart from Kunal. So the areas of law that they worked with his vast in terms of the amount of data that we hold and essentially I mean, for us data is the most important thing that runs the firm and having visibility tow our data. How do we How do we work that data? How do we then market based on the data that we have? How do we market ourselves from that data. You know, there might be one area the business that's dealing with a family issue, family law. But then, you know that that could correspond with the litigation issue. You know, how do we work that data? To be to be an advancing to our businesses is extremely important. For >> what? What do you think of the announcements this week? I'm kind of curious. I was liketo ask the practitioners of what they think about. You know what was announced. You had, uh, well, you had the ve made $1,000,000,000. That's kind of fun and cool, but But you had the with the program, which was kind of interesting. The whole ap I look the beam availability orchestrator, where they're really talking about recovering from backups as a host that needed to recover from, you know, a replicated instance. You know, some of the automated testing stuff was kind of interesting. They talked about dynamic documentation, things you saw this week that you'll actually go back and say, Hey, I can apply that to solve a problem. Sure. >> So, essentially, I think I've been a really good question is very relevant to us many of not just ourselves law firm but many of the other law firms around the world are now looking at cloud based services now for us. I mean, this was a big thing five years ago way you know, everyone was talking about public clouds. Us. We're now we're now looking clouds and where basically, we've bean pushed by the vendors themselves to go towards cloudlike Citrix, for example. Their licensing model was based around their services. So is Microsoft in Mike's off? You don't you don't really have, you know, exchange anymore. Within premises you have off 365 A lot of the SAS applications are moving toward the cloud on DH. What wrote me? I had to say doing the keynote in regards to act, too. And how team are trying to be the visionaries in terms of look at that cloud is their next big thing for the next 10 years, offering often a crucial and for businesses like ours who have limited exposure to cloud technologies limited understanding, essentially having a tool that could migrate from one cloud to another. It's fantastic, you know, we've offered, you know I've spoken to, obviously are United directors around the other law firms where I wanted to have gone to the public cloud. But they don't know how to come back in and having a tall that essentially gives you that flexibility to bring it back in house to go form a ws to zoo. Or if there's a particular assess application, for example, that piers better with a W s. But you've got your other application that piers with that particular application is your Why would you want to have in the door? You'll probably want to move into a W eso for us, I think. What? The message coming out of'em on this year has bean really, really helpful for us. >> So So when you started with theme, they had it said 20,000 custom You like the 20001st customer on DIT was coincided with the virtual ization, you know, craze. Do you feel like the team knowing what you know about them, you have a lot of experience with them Consort of Replicate that success in this town intendant and in Act two, >> I think when I first looked at them, Wow, this is really, really simple. It's a bit like an iPhone. You know you given iPhone to your grandmother or to your children, and they have to play with it. And I see the beam as an intuitive piece of software that easy fighting professionals to get on with it, as their slogan said a few years ago. It just works. It does just work. Wear were great advocates of him. It's worked wonders for us. We've acquired smaller businesses using we've managed companies using and when I see you know, when you go to the sessions and you see the intelligence behind their thinking, I think going back to your question I think Wei si oui, si, vamos a strategic partner for us when we see their vision and we believe in their vision, and I think what they're doing in terms of what they working on next few years, I think we're well favor there, and I think, you know, essentially, that's where the most of their business is going to come from, >> where you sit down with, you know, rat mayor over over vodka and he says, Tell me the one thing I could do to make your life you know, easier, better you can't say cut prices s a hellhole. But what would you advise him to >> make my life better >> other than Jim instead of >> yeah, eyes that >> would make you crazy. >> So in terms of a zoo, a technology, >> your business relationship or something, she'd like to see them do that would. I >> think in terms of mergers and acquiring companies, seen license rentals will be a good thing. I know, I know. They give you a valuation license keys, and that's something that you can use. So, for example, if we were to acquire a company that has hundreds of servers and PM's having license rentals for a period of time, able >> to spin it up and spin it down actually allowed >> Exactly. Yeah, that would be an advantage. I think in terms of what you know what they're doing in the marketplace, and a lot of law firms use him. I feel I can't do any more than they are doing now. And in all the years that we've used to be my fingers on eight years now, but we've only had one serious problem, and the way they got that problem, you know the way, the way they communicated to reverse the way they a lot of different teams across the the Europe and the US go involved. I think, you know, in terms of service, in terms of software, in terms of what they what they do for us. I don't think there's anything more to add. Teoh. Right? Maia's vision. >> That's great for their custom of it. Well, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is not heavy. Really? Thank you very much. You're welcome to keep it right there, buddy Peter, and I'll be back with our next guests right after this short break. We're live from Miami at the front of Blue Hotel. You're watching the Cube from Vienna on 2019 right back.

>> Narrator: Live from Nice, France. It's theCUBE, covering .NEXT Conference 2017 Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is SiliconANGLE Media's coverage of theCUBE at Nutanix .NEXT in East Frant. Really excited to have on the program Rob Lloyd who is the CEO of Hyperloop One. Off of the keynote this morning Rob, thank you so much for finding time to join us. It's great to join you. So, it's interesting. I've been watching Hyperloop since the day one when it got announced. I'm study mechanical engineering. So transportation's something I looked at. But I've been in the tech world. I knew you back from your Cisco days. When I talked to some friends of mine that didn't know about Hyperloop, you kind of explain it was like, "Oh! Remember the bank pneumatic tubes? "It's like we're going to do that with people." And they're like, "That sounds crazy!" And then you say, "Well, Elon Musk is behind it." And they're like, "Well, OK, another Elon Musk thing "that's probably going to be near impossible, "but they will find a way to make it work." >> Rob: Mm-hmm. You talked a little about your journey in the keynote this morning, but let's start, Hyperloop One. Pre-revenue, give kind of a thumbnail of the company and where you are today. So it's a three year old company. Literally in a garage, in the very late part of 2014, our founder, co-founder, started on November 2nd. So, just an idea. A white paper that Elon wrote, which was the concepts of something very different. A new mode of transportation. Slightly outraged by the expense and archaic nature of the High-Speed Rail in California proposal. So, that's the starting point. A company that was founded, co-founded by Shervin Pishevar, a venture capitalist, and some brilliant engineer, Josh Giegel. Now, from that point, 300 people, 245 million dollars raised and just this summer, having only started on the designs, tested some concepts: a magnetic levitation, a custom-design linear electric motor, evacuating a tube to the equivalent of 200,000 feet above the Earth's surface. We built a full-scale prototype. 500 meters prove the tech is working, and the cool part is that the speed with which this engineering and development is occurring is like nothing else. So, it's kind of DevOps for hardware. And we saw what happened when people kind of went to Agile Development Methodologies. We saw it in tech. But it really hasn't hit the traditional methods of transportation, where people build in silos. They're not closely associated with a fabricator or a welder. And we have mechanical engineers working with fabricators working with welders, and you make amazing progress when you see that happen. You stated, it's been over 100 years since we had a kind of major new transportation model. The tooling that allows you to prototype this... I know, it's kind of, friend of mine, it's watching the space stuff and watching the videos that you put out. Everything from testing the engine, to the pod. If I remember, wasn't there a contest around the pods, too? Well, actually, yeah. The tools we have today, the analytics tools, the way we can model things, didn't exist when we did our first moonshots, when the United States said we're going to put a man on the moon and NASA was mobilized and the country was excited. We didn't have the tools we have today. So we have much, much better tools. We have methodologies and approaches that are not accepted everywhere but are embraced in our company. And you make things happen that were taking five years from an engineering perspective. And you can build a full-scale prototype in 10 months. That really changes the speed with which this can occur. Most people say this would take a decade. This is going to take three years. As I said, like other Elon Musk companies, you've got strong conviction at Hyperloop One. Some of the things that kind of skeptics come up with reminds me a lot of autonomous vehicles. "Ah, well, regulators are never going to let it happen, "and, gosh, safety." It's like "I'm putting software? "It's going to do this? We're going to be going at what speeds?" And you know, "How fast?" And all these things. How long's this going to take before its reality? Can you give us a little bit of that road map, as to how we make sure that once somebody actually goes in this, that they're not going to end up just completely flattened? So, the way that we're approaching this is actually different than the way in which most new technologies are regulated in transportation. We're going to partner with one or two countries. We're going to partner with the regulator while we're designing the commercial version of our technology. So while we commercialize, which is the next two to three years of our road map, we know the tech works. Now you build a commercial offer. You build the car. You build the pod. We will commercialize this. We're going to work with them now, so we don't come to them in three to five years and say, "Would you please certify this?" And in doing so, we actually bring a huge opportunity to the countries that go first. We ran a global competition, to kind of AKA Peter Diamandis, who's on our board, like the X Prize. We actually asked countries, "Who'd like to build the world's first Hyperloop?" 2,600 people registered. 100 serious submissions. Dozens of them are now real projects moving forward with government support. So, the short answer is, we have to do it differently. We're going to partner with a regulator while we're commercializing the tech. And then when we get there, of course you want it to be safe. Of course you'll need certification. But you do that now rather than later. And you'll end up bringing benefits to a country that chooses to go first. Did I hear right that the first solution is probably going to be in the Middle East? There is a good probability that's the case. The land is fairly flat. We can build along existing right-of-ways. There's massive investments in airports and ports there. Wherever there's a very dense transportation hub today, airports, downtown centers, connections to metro or train stations, that's where we want to put kind of a Hyperloop portals. So think of it as the backbone between two data centers. All the activity going on in the data center, we want to connect those high-density locations. But it's not just one-to-one. We can branch on and branch off. So it's sort of like point-to-point packet switching. One of the things that really excited me in your presentation that I didn't know as well is you talked about kind of the sustainability, the energy of this compared to other options, as well as the affordability. Something that really could help a lot of environments. Could you speak to those? Yeah, so... There is absolute science about the substitution rates that will go to a faster mode of transportation if the price is right. So, our model as we analyze opportunities around the world, in the United States, in Europe, Northern Europe, Canada, India, and the Middle East, where we see a lot of our projects today... If we price at the same price level of the current mode of transport, you'll get almost 100% conversion, because why not? Why wouldn't I go, in nine minutes, to Abu Dhabi from Dubai, instead of what could be a two-hour car drive? But why not price it for the ticket of a metro ride? Then you'll get really high ridership, high utilization. The economics of building infrastructure, a PPP structure that would bring private equity, debt, pension funds, sovereign funds together, to invest in that new infrastructure, that's how it's going to work. So that's the passenger case. And then on the freight side, you know, seriously, we forgot that this on-demand economy is based on a transportation network that effectively is 100 to 200 years old. Steel cans, right? This idea of a container was invented, a standard-sized container that goes on ships. The ships unload them in ports. They sit a couple of days. Then a truck puts it on the back, and they drive through our cities. Or it goes on the back of a train and takes seven to ten days to get to its consumer. That doesn't work anymore, in this world of Amazon, on-demand, Alibaba commerce. The only option they have is to pay for air freight, which is five to six times more than it would cost to carry those same packages and goods in a Hyperloop cargo system. Huge opportunity. Rob, speak about sustainability, kind of the energy required for this compared to other modes of transportation. We take some energy to remove the pressure inside the tube which obviously reduces resistance. It's an all-electric motor. Because we have little resistance and no friction, because we're floating on magnets, effectively floating on a magnetic cushion, once you're up to speed, you're pretty much gliding, like gliding in space. >> Stu: What speed do we think that'll be? Well, by the way, this really is, I'm being very candid, it depends on the route. It depends on how straight we can get a right-of-way. It depends on the levels, so flat and straight means you can go fast. If you're going to go 300 kilometers, we can go six, seven, eight hundred miles an hour which is faster than an aircraft. And obviously city center to city center, then we don't have the drive of an hour and a half, the vagaries of weather, and all that other stuff, which has made air travel for most of us just a somewhat demoralizing experience. So, solar power, wind power, and in some environments where we do have a lot of sun, we can just have the tube covered with solar panels and make the entire thing energy neutral, which is really, really amazing. A new mode of transportation that doesn't consume any energy. Yeah, maybe Elon can help with some of the solar stuff. Elon's got that stuff. How much is Elon involved? So he's not involved in our company. His idea, right? His brainchild. Our company was formed to commercialize that, and there are others that are now in this market. I think we're the leader. No, I know we're the leader. We've demonstrated the technology no one else has. And we're there. I mean, this is a go-for-it business. So we're going for it. Well you just had a new partnership with Virgin announced recently. So Richard Branson, you know... Yeah, so Virgin Hyperloop One, a brand that actually has been known for customer experience, thinking of the customer, delivering an experience, taking on the giants as he did with Virgin Atlantic, putting people into space now from a commercial perspective, as well as satellites. So think of his companies and transportation and how that brings comfort to governments and investors, that we're here to actually really make something big happen, and Richard's done that. He's a serial entrepreneur. And that brand typically stands for an excellent experience. Yeah. He has pretty good track record as a risk taker out there, too. Some of the extreme things that he had done, but absolutely, the comfort and the brand there... Pre-revenue, you said a couple of years until we're there, but you mentioned even that you've got kind of a pipeline of orders already, so sounds like-- Well the projects are big, so this is infrastructure. We won't be financing that. That will be done by people that find governments and pension funds and sovereign funds and insurance companies that invest in infrastructure. But if you take a look at the projects because they're big, they start with billions and they go up from there. So it's kind of fun to think that you're first order could be three billion. It's kind of neat to go from this pre-revenue stage to the size of projects that we'll have. That three billion will be spent on, some will be on contractors, some will be on infrastructure, but for us, the revenues that will come will be high margin. We're building a software platform that will connect with other modes of transport and manage the massive amounts of data we'll be collecting off the pod and the track, the headway between these vehicles, which could be as close as ten seconds traveling at that speed, and then obviously you've got to have a whole lot of control software and a whole IoT Platform built in. Last question I have for you. We're here at a technology show. Just throw out there: software, massive amounts of data, I've got to have the analytics going into it, and there, is the tech all ready? How's the industry doing to support some of these kind of moonshot-type of activities? High-speed networking is going to be a big deal for us. So we probably need kind of an evolution of 5G because we're moving so fast inside that enclosed area that we're going to need some radio technology to keep all of those devices connected. That's a little bit of a push. Listen, we're starting from scratch. So we have a clean sheet. So we have legacy to integrate. That's typically an advantage. We're not trying to do mechanical switching. We'll do a digital switch, which means you'll actually just bump a vehicle off onto an on-ramp and weave it back in with software, kind of like packets on the network. But clean sheet. I think we have tools required to do everything that we're looking for today, an industry that's evolved, has developed around IoT, and a plethora of options that our architects and engineers are working on today. Gosh, all my background thinking about packet loss and things like that, it gets me a little bit nervous, but I know you've got lots of engineers working to solve that problem. Rob Lloyd, Hyperloop One. Really appreciate you joining us. I'm Stu Miniman. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .NEXT in Nice, France. You're watching theCUBE.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts. Day Volante and Stew Minimum. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is the Cube, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Stillman and I have pleased to have Jean Kolker on a Cuba lem. Uh, he's IBM vice president and chief data officer of the Global Technology Services division. And Seth Dobrin who's the Director of Digital Strategies. That Monsanto. You may have seen them in the news lately. Gentlemen. Welcome to the Cube, Jean. Welcome back. Good to see you guys again. Thanks. Thank you. So let's start with the customer. Seth, Let's, uh, tell us about what you're doing here, and then we'll get into your role. >> Yes. So, you know, the CDO summit has been going on for a couple of years now, and I've been lucky enoughto be participating for a couple of a year and 1/2 or so, Um, and you know, really, the nice thing about the summit is is the interaction with piers, um, and the interaction and networking with people who are facing similar challenges from a similar perspective. >> Yes, kind of a relatively new Roland topic, one that's evolved, Gene. We talked about this before, but now you've come from industry into, ah, non regulated environment. Now what's happened like >> so I think the deal is that way. We're developing some approaches, and we get in some successes in regulated environment. Right? And now I feel with And we were being client off IBM for years, right? Using their technology's approaches. Right? So and now I feel it's time for me personally to move on something different and tried to serve our power. I mean, IBM clients respected off in this striking from healthcare, but their approaches, you know, and what IBM can do for clients go across the different industries, right? And doing it. That skill that's very beneficial, I think, for >> clients. So Monsanto obviously guys do a lot of stuff in the physical world. Yeah, you're the head of digital strategy. So what does that entail? What is Monte Santo doing for digital? >> Yes, so, you know, for as head of digital strategies for Monsanto, really? My role is to number one. Help Monsanto internally reposition itself so that we behave and act like a digital companies, so leveraging data and analytics and also the cultural shifts associated with being more digital, which is that whole kind like you start out this conversation with the whole customer first approach. So what is the real impact toe? What we're doing to our customers on driving that and then based on on those things, how can we create new business opportunities for us as a company? Um, and how can we even create new adjacent markets or new revenues in adjacent areas based on technologies and things we already have existing within the company? >> It was the scope of analytics, customer engagement of digital experiences, all of the above, so that the scope is >> really looking at our portfolio across the gamut on DH, seeing how we can better serve our customers and society leveraging what we're doing today. So it's really leveraging the re use factor of the whole digital concept. Right? So we have analytics for geospatial, right? Big part of agriculture is geospatial. Are there other adjacent areas that we could apply some of that technology? Some of that learning? Can we monetize those data? We monetize the the outputs of those models based on that, Or is there just a whole new way of doing business as a company? Because we're in this digital era >> this way? Talked about a lot of the companies that have CEOs today are highly regulated. What are you learning from them? What's what's different? Kind of a new organization. You know, it might be an opportunity for you that they don't have. And, you know, do you have a CDO yet or is that something you're planning on having? >> Yes, So we don't have a CDO We do have someone acts as an essential. he's a defacto CEO, he has all of the data organizations on his team. Um, it's very recent for Monsanto, Um, and and so I think, you know, in terms of from the regular, what can we learn from, you know, there there are. It's about half financial people have non financial people, are half heavily regulated industries, and I think, you know, on the surface you would. You would think that, you know, there was not a lot of overlap, but I think the level of rigor that needs to go into governance in a financial institution that same thought process. Khun really be used as a way Teo really enable Maur R and D. Mohr you know, growth centered companies to be able to use data more broadly and so thinking of governance not as as a roadblock or inhibitor, but really thinking about governance is an enabler. How does it enable us to be more agile as it enable us to beam or innovative? Right? If if people in the company there's data that people could get access to by unknown process of known condition, right, good, bad, ugly. As long as people know they can do things more quickly because the data is there, it's available. It's curated. And if they shouldn't have access it under their current situation, what do they need to do to be able to access that data? Right. So if I would need If I'm a data scientist and I want to access data about my customers, what can I can't? What can and can't I do with that data? Number one doesn't have to be DEA Nana Mayes, right? Or if I want to access in, it's current form. What steps do I need to go through? What types of approval do I need to do to do to access that data? So it's really about removing roadblocks through governance instead of putting him in place. >> Gina, I'm curious. You know, we've been digging into you know, IBM has a very multifaceted role here. You know how much of this is platforms? How much of it is? You know, education and services. How much of it is, you know, being part of the data that your your customers you're using? >> Uh so I think actually, that different approaches to this issues. My take is basically we need Teo. I think that with even cognitive here, right and data is new natural resource worldwide, right? So data service, cognitive za za service. I think this is where you know IBM is coming from. And the BM is, you know, tradition. It was not like that, but it's under a lot of transformation as we speak. A lot of new people coming in a lot off innovation happening as we speak along. This line's off new times because cognitive with something, really you right, and it's just getting started. Data's a service is really new. It's just getting started. So there's a lot to do. And I think my role specifically global technology services is you know, ah, largest by having your union that IBM, you're 30 plus 1,000,000,000 answered You okay? And we support a lot of different industries basically going across all different types of industries how to transition from offerings to new business offerings, service, integrated services. I think that's the key for us. >> Just curious, you know? Where's Monsanto with kind of the adoption of cognitive, You know what? Where are you in that journey? >> Um, so we are actually a fairly advanced in the journey In terms of using analytics. I wouldn't say that we're using cognitive per se. Um, we do use a lot of machine learning. We have some applications that on the back end run on a I So some form of artificial or formal artificial intelligence, that machine learning. Um, we haven't really gotten into what, you know, what? IBM defined his cognitive in terms of systems that you can interact with in a natural, normal course of doing voice on DH that you spend a whole lot of time constantly teaching. But we do use like I said, artificial intelligence. >> Jean I'm interested in the organizational aspects. So we have Inderpal on before. He's the global CDO, your divisional CDO you've got a matrix into your leadership within the Global Services division as well as into the chief date officer for all of IBM. Okay, Sounds sounds reasonable. He laid out for us a really excellent sort of set of a framework, if you will. This is interval. Yeah, I understand your data strategy. Identify your data store says, make those data sources trusted. And then those air sequential activities. And in parallel, uh, you have to partner with line of business. And then you got to get into the human resource planning and development piece that has to start right away. So that's the framework. Sensible framework. A lot of thought, I'm sure, went into it and a lot of depth and meaning behind it. How does that framework translate into the division? Is it's sort of a plug and play and or is there their divisional goals that are create dissonance? Can you >> basically, you know, I'm only 100 plus days in my journey with an IBM right? But I can feel that the global technology services is transforming itself into integrated services business. Okay, so it's thiss framework you just described is very applicable to this, right? So basically what we're trying to do, we're trying to become I mean, it was the case before for many industries, for many of our clients. But we I want to transform ourselves into trusted broker. So what they need to do and this framework help is helping tremendously, because again, there's things we can do in concert, you know, one after another, right to control other and things we can do in parallel. So we trying those things to be put on the agenda for our global technology services, okay. And and this is new for them in some respects. But some respects it's kind of what they were doing before, but with new emphasis on data's A service cognitive as a service, you know, major thing for one of the major things for global technology services delivery. So cognitive delivery. That's kind of new type off business offerings which we need to work on how to make it truly, you know, once a sense, you know, automated another sense, you know, cognitive and deliver to our clients some you value and on value compared to what was done up until recently. What >> do you mean by cognitive delivery? Explained that. >> Yeah, so basically in in plain English. So what's right now happening? Usually when you have a large systems  computer IT system, which are basically supporting lot of in this is a lot of organizations corporations, right? You know, it's really done like this. So it's people run technology assistant, okay? And you know what Of decisions off course being made by people, But some of the decisions can be, you know, simple decisions. Right? Decisions, which can be automated, can standardize, normalize can be done now by technology, okay and people going to be used for more complex decisions, right? It's basically you're going toe. It turned from people around technology assisted toa technology to technology around people assisted. OK, that's very different. Very proposition, right? So, again, it's not about eliminating jobs, it's very different. It's taken off, you know, routine and automata ble part off the business right to technology and given options and, you know, basically options to choose for more complex decision making to people. That's kind of I would say approach. >> It's about scale and the scale to, of course, IBM. When when Gerstner made the decision, Tio so organized as a services company, IBM came became a global leader, if not the global leader but a services business. Hard to scale. You could scare with bodies, and the bigger it gets, the more complicated it gets, the more expensive it gets. So you saying, If I understand correctly, the IBM is using cognitive and software essentially to scale its services business where possible, assisted by humans. >> So that's exactly the deal. So and this is very different. Very proposition, toe say, compared what was happening recently or earlier? Always. You know other. You know, players. We're not building your shiny and much more powerful and cognitive, you know, empowered mouse trap. No, we're trying to become trusted broker, OK, and how to do that at scale. That's an open, interesting question, but we think that this transition from you know people around technology assisted Teo technology around people assisted. That's the way to go. >> So what does that mean to you? How does that resonate? >> Yeah, you know, I think it brings up a good point actually, you know, if you think of the whole litany of the scope of of analytics, you have everything from kind of describing what happened in the past All that to cognitive. Um, and I think you need to I understand the power of each of those and what they shouldn't should be used for. A lot of people talk. You talk. People talk a lot about predictive analytics, right? And when you hear predictive analytics, that's really where you start doing things that fully automate processes that really enable you to replace decisions that people make right, I think. But those air mohr transactional type decisions, right? More binary type decisions. As you get into things where you can apply binary or I'm sorry, you can apply cognitive. You're moving away from those mohr binary decisions. There's more transactional decisions, and you're moving mohr towards a situation where, yes, the system, the silicon brain right, is giving you some advice on the types of decisions that you should make, based on the amount of information that it could absorb that you can't even fathom absorbing. But they're still needs really some human judgment involved, right? Some some understanding of the contacts outside of what? The computer, Khun Gay. And I think that's really where something like cognitive comes in. And so you talk about, you know, in this in this move to have, you know, computer run, human assisted right. There's a whole lot of descriptive and predictive and even prescriptive analytics that are going on before you get to that cognitive decision but enables the people to make more value added decisions, right? So really enabling the people to truly add value toe. What the data and the analytics have said instead of thinking about it, is replacing people because you're never going to replace you. Never gonna replace people. You know, I think I've heard people at some of these conferences talking about, Well, no cognitive and a I is going to get rid of data scientist. I don't I don't buy that. I think it's really gonna enable data scientist to do more valuable, more incredible things >> than they could do today way. Talked about this a lot to do. I mean, machines, through the course of history, have always replaced human tasks, right, and it's all about you know, what's next for the human and I mean, you know, with physical labor, you know, driving stakes or whatever it is. You know, we've seen that. But now, for the first time ever, you're seeing cognitive, cognitive assisted, you know, functions come into play and it's it's new. It's a new innovation curve. It's not Moore's law anymore. That's driving innovation. It's how we interact with systems and cognitive systems one >> tonight. And I think, you know, I think you hit on a good point there when you said in driving innovation, you know, I've run, you know, large scale, automated process is where the goal was to reduce the number of people involved. And those were like you said, physical task that people are doing we're talking about here is replacing intellectual tasks, right or not replacing but freeing up the intellectual capacity that is going into solving intellectual tasks to enable that capacity to focus on more innovative things, right? We can teach a computer, Teo, explain ah, an area to us or give us some advice on something. I don't know that in the next 10 years, we're gonna be able to teach a computer to innovate, and we can free up the smart minds today that are focusing on How do we make a decision? Two. How do we be more innovative in leveraging this decision and applying this decision? That's a huge win, and it's not about replacing that person. It's about freeing their time up to do more valuable things. >> Yes, sure. So, for example, from my previous experience writing healthcare So physicians, right now you know, basically, it's basically impossible for human individuals, right to keep up with spaced of changes and innovations happening in health care and and by medical areas. Right? So in a few years it looks like there was some numbers that estimate that in three days you're going to, you know, have much more information for several years produced during three days. What was done by several years prior to that point. So it's basically becomes inhuman to keep up with all these innovations, right? Because of that decision is going to be not, you know, optimal decisions. So what we'd like to be doing right toe empower individuals make this decision more, you know, correctly, it was alternatives, right? That's about empowering people. It's not about just taken, which is can be done through this process is all this information and get in the routine stuff out of their plate, which is completely full. >> There was a stat. I think it was last year at IBM Insight. Exact numbers, but it's something like a physician would have to read 1,500 periodic ALS a week just to keep up with the new data innovations. I mean, that's virtually impossible. That something that you're obviously pointing, pointing Watson that, I mean, But there are mundane examples, right? So you go to the airport now, you don't need a person that the agent to give you. Ah, boarding pass. It's on your phone already. You get there. Okay, so that's that's That's a mundane example we're talking about set significantly more complicated things. And so what's The gate is the gate. Creativity is it is an education, you know, because these are step functions in value creation. >> You know, I think that's ah, what? The gate is a question I haven't really thought too much about. You know, when I approach it, you know the thinking Mohr from you know, not so much. What's the gate? But where? Where can this ad the most value um So maybe maybe I have thought about it. And the gate is value, um, and and its value both in terms of, you know, like the physician example where, you know, physicians, looking at images. And I mean, I don't even know what the error rate is when someone evaluates and memory or something. And I probably don't want Oh, right. So, getting some advice there, the value may not be monetary, but to me, it's a lot more than monetary, right. If I'm a patient on DH, there's a lot of examples like that. And other places, you know, that are in various industries. That I think that's that's the gate >> is why the value you just hit on you because you are a heat seeking value missile inside of your organisation. What? So what skill sets do you have? Where did you come from? That you have this capability? Was your experience, your education, your fortitude, >> While the answer's yes, tell all of them. Um, you know, I'm a scientist by training my backgrounds in statistical genetics. Um, and I've kind of worked through the business. I came up through the RND organization with him on Santo over the last. Almost exactly 10 years now, Andi, I've had lots of opportunities to leverage. Um, you know, Data and analytics have changed how the company operates on. I'm lucky because I'm in a company right now. That is extremely science driven, right? Monsanto is a science based company. And so being in a company like that, you don't face to your question about financial industry. I don't think you face the same barriers and Monsanto about using data and analytics in the same way you may in a financial types that you've got company >> within my experience. 50% of diagnosis being proven incorrect. Okay, so 50% 05 0/2 summation. You go to your physician twice. Once you on average, you get in wrong diagnosis. We don't know which one, by the way. Definitely need some someone. Garrett A cz Individuals as humans, we do need some help. Us cognitive, and it goes across different industries. Right, technologist? So if your server is down, you know you shouldn't worry about it because there is like system, you know, Abbas system enough, right? So think about how you can do that scale, and then, you know start imagined future, which going to be very empowering. >> So I used to get a second opinion, and now the opinion comprises thousands, millions, maybe tens of millions of opinions. Is that right? >> It's a try exactly and scale ofthe data accumulation, which you're going to help us to solve. This problem is enormous. So we need to keep up with that scale, you know, and do it properly exactly for business. Very proposition. >> Let's talk about the role of the CDO and where you see that evolving how it relates to the role of the CIA. We've had this conversation frequently, but is I'm wondering if the narratives changing right? Because it was. It's been fuzzy when we first met a couple years ago that that was still a hot topic. When I first started covering this. This this topic, it was really fuzzy. Has it come in two more clarity lately in terms of the role of the CDO versus the CIA over the CTO, its chief digital officer, we starting to see these roles? Are they more than just sort of buzzwords or grey? You know, areas. >> I think there's some clarity happening already. So, for example, there is much more acceptance for cheap date. Office of Chief Analytics Officer Teo, Chief Digital officer. Right, in addition to CEO. So basically station similar to what was with Serious 20 plus years ago and CEO Row in one sentence from my viewpoint would be How you going using leverage in it. Empower your business. Very proposition with CDO is the same was data how using data leverage and data, your date and your client's data. You, Khun, bring new value to your clients and businesses. That's kind ofthe I would say differential >> last word, you know, And you think you know I'm not a CDO. But if you think about the concept of establishing a role like that, I think I think the name is great because that what it demonstrates is support from leadership, that this is important. And I think even if you don't have the name in the organization like it, like in Monsanto, you know, we still have that executive management level support to the data and analytics, our first class citizens and their important, and we're going to run our business that way. I think that's really what's important is are you able to build the culture that enable you to leverage the maximum capability Data and analytics. That's really what matters. >> All right, We'll leave it there. Seth Gene, thank you very much for coming that you really appreciate your time. Thank you. Alright. Keep it right there, Buddy Stew and I'll be back. This is the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit. We're live from Boston right back.