>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff Freak here with the Cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios with ongoing coverage of Cisco Definite create. We've been going to definite create, I think, since the very beginning. This year, of course. Like everything else, it's it's virtual. So we're excited to cover it virtually and digitally like we have a lot of other shows here in 2020 and we're excited to have our next guest. We've got Kun Jacobs. He's the director of systems engineering. Francisco, Good to see you. Coun. Thank >>you for having me. >>And joining him is Eric Nippy is the VP of system systems Engineering. Francisco. Good to see Eric. >>Good to be here. Thank you. >>Pleasure. So before we jump into kind of what's going on now, in this new great world of program ability and control, I want to kind of go back to the future for a minute. Because when I was doing some research for this interview, it was kun. I saw an old presentation that you were giving from 2006 about the changing evolution of the changing evolution of networking and moving from. I think the theme was a human centered, human centered network, and you were just starting to touch a little bit on video and online video. Oh my goodness, how far we have come. But but I would love to get kind of historical perspective because we've been talking a lot. And I know Eric Son plays football about the football analogy of the network is kind of like an offensive lineman where if they're doing a good job, you don't hear much about them. But they're really important to everything, and the only time you hear about him was when the flag is thrown. So if you look back with the historical perspective load and the numbers and the evolution of the network as we've moved to this modern time and you know thank goodness, because if Cove it hit five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know all of us in the information space would not have been able to make this transition, so I just I just love to get some historical perspective because you've been kind of charting this and mapping this for a very long time. >>Yeah, we absolutely have. I think you know what you're referring to was back in the day the human network campaign and to your point that the load, the number of hosts, the traffic just overall, the intelligence of the network has just evolved tremendously over the last decade and a half, 15 years or so. And you look at where we are now in terms of the programmable nature of the network and what that enables in terms of new degrees of relevance that we can create for the customers on how you know the role of I t. Has changed entirely again, especially during this pandemic. You know, the fact that it's now as a service and elastic eyes is absolutely fundamental to being able to ensure, on an ongoing basis a great customer experience. And so it's been It's been a very interesting right, indeed. Yeah, >>And then and then just to close the loop, the one of your more later interviews talking to Sylvia. You're the question is, are you developer an engineer? So And your whole advice to all these network engineers is just Just don't jump in and start doing some coding and learning. So you know, the focus and really the emphasis and where the opportunity to differentiate is a complete is completely 15 years over to the, you know, really software to find side. >>Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, you look at how the software world and the network has come together and how we're applying now, you know, basically the same construct of C I C D pipeline to network infrastructure. Look at network really as code and get all of the benefits from that in the familiarity of it, the way that our engineers have had to evolve in that is just, you know, quite quite significant in like the skill set. And the best thing is jump in, you know, dip your toe in the water, but continue to evolve that skill set. And, you know, don't don't be shy. It's It's a leap of faith for some of us who've been in the industry a bit longer. You know, we like to look at ourselves as the craftsman of the network, but now it's definitely software Centris City and the, um, program ability. >>Right? So, Eric, you've got some digital exhaust out there, too, that I was able to dig up Going back to 2000 and 2 752 page book in the very back corner of a dark, dirty, dusty Amazon warehouse is managing Cisco Network Security 752 pages. Wow. How has security changed? From a time where before I could just read a book, a big book, you know, throw some protocols in and probably block a bunch of ports to the world that we live in today, where everything is connected, everything is a p. I driven. Everything is software defined. You've got pieces of workload spread out all over the place. And, Oh, by the way, you need to bake security in at every single level of the application stack. >>Yeah, No eso Wow. Kudos that you you found that book. I'm really impressed there, so thank you. Little street credit. So I want to get on something that you you talked about because I think it's very important to to this overall conversation if we think about the scale of the network and coun hit on it briefly. You talked about it as well. We're seeing a massive explosion of devices by the you know it's estimated By the end of this year, there's gonna be about 27 billion devices on the global Internet. That's about 3.7 devices for every man, woman and child life. And if we extrapolate that out over the course of the next decade on the growth trajectory, we're on. And if you look at some of the published research on this, it's estimated there could be upwards of 500 billion devices accessing the global Internet on a on a daily basis in the primarily that that that is I o T devices. That's digitally connected devices. Anything that can be connected will be connect, but then introduces a really interesting security challenge because every one of those devices that is accessing the global Internet is within a company's infrastructure. Accessing pieces of corporate data is a potential attack factor, so we really need Thio and I think the right expression for this is we need to reimagine security because security is, as you said, not about perimeters. You know, I wrote that book back in 2002. I was talking about firewalls and a cutting edge technology was intrusion, prevention and intrusion detection. Now we need to look at security. Really? In the in the guise of under the under the under the realm of really two aspects the identity. Who is accessing the data in the context, What data is being access and that is going to require a level of intelligence, a level of automation and technologies like machine learning, an automated intelligence. They're going to be our artificial intelligence. Rather are gonna be table stakes because the sheer scale of what we're trying to secure is going to be untenable under current. You know, just current security practices mean the network is gonna have to be incredibly intelligent and leverage again, a lot of that AI type of data to match patterns of potential attacks and ideally, shut them down before they ever cause any type of damage. >>Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, one thing That cove it has done a bunk many things is kind of re taught us all about the power of exponential curves and how extremely large those things are and how fast they grow. We had Dave Rennes in on it Google Cloud a couple years ago, and I remember him talking about early days of Google when they were starting to map out kind of, as you describe kind of map out their growth curves, and they just figured out they could not hire if they hired everybody, they couldn't hire enough people to deal with it, right? So really kind of rethinking automation and re thinking about the way that you manage these things and and the level right, the old Is it a pet or is it or is it, um, part of the herd? And I think it's interesting what you talked about coun really human powered Internet and being driven by a lot of this video. But to what you just said, Erik, the next big wave right is I, O. T and five G. And I think you know, you talk about 3.7 of devices per person. That's nothing compared toa right, all these sensors and all these devices and all these factories because five G is really targeted to machine to machines, which there's ah lot of them, and they trade a lot of information really, really quickly. So, you know, I want to go back to Yukun thinking about this next great wave in a five G i o t kind of driven world where it's kind of like one voice kind of fell off compared to I p traffic on the network, I think you're going to see the same thing. Kind of human generated data relative to machine generated data is also gonna fall off dramatically. Is the machine generated data just skyrockets through the roof? >>Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think thio also what Eric touched on the visibility on that and they'll be able to process that data at the edge that's going to catalyze cloud adoption even further. And it's gonna, you know, make the role of the network the connectivity of it all, and the security within that crucially important. And then you look at the role of program ability. Within that, we're see the evolution going so fast. You look at the element of the software defined network in an I. O. T. Speed space. We see that we have hosts there that are not necessarily, you know, behaving like other hosts would on a network, for example, manufacturing floor production, robot or security camera. And what we're seeing is we're seeing you know, partners and customers employing program ability to make sure that we overcome some of the shortcomings, uh, in terms of where the network is at. But then how do you customize it in terms of the relevance that it can provide, bringing on board those those hosts in a very transparent way on then, you know, keep keep the agility of it and keep the speed of innovation going right, >>right. So, Eric, I want to come back to you and shift gears kind of back to the people will leave the A. D and the machines along along for middle minute. But I'm curious about what does beat the boss. I mean, I I go to your LinkedIn profile and it's just filled with congratulatory statements, but everyone's talking about beating the boss. You know, it's it's a really, you know, kind of interesting and different way toe to motivate people to build this new skill set in terms of getting software certifications within the Cisco world. And I just thought it was really cute the way that you clearly got people motivated because there's posts all over the place and they've all got their their nice big badge of their certification. But, you know, at a higher level, it is a different motivation to be a developer versus and engineering a technician. And it's a, you know, kind of a different point of view. And I just wonder if you could share, you know, some of the ways that you're kind of encouraging, you know, kind of this transformation within your own workforce as well as the partners, etcetera and really adopting kind of almost a software first in this program kind of point of view versus, you know, I'm just wiring stuff up. >>Apparently, a lot of people like to beat me. So I mean, that in of itself was was a was a great success. But, you know, if we think we take a step back, you know, what is Cisco about as an organization? I mean, obviously, he looked back to the very early days of our vision, right? It was. It was to change the way the world, you know, worked, played, live and learn. And if you think about and you hit on this when we were you know, your discussion with with With Kun in the early days of Cove it. We really saw that play out as so much shifted from, you know, in person type of interactions to virtual interactions in the network that that our customers, our partners, our employees built over the course of the last several last three decades really help the world continue Thio to to do business for students to continue to go thio school or, you know, clinicians to connect with patients. If I think about that mission to meet program ability is just the next generation of that mission, uh, continuing to enable the world to communicate, continuing to enable customers, employees, partners to, uh, essentially leverage the network for more than just connectivity. Now the leverage it for critical insight again, If we look at some of the some of the use cases that we're seeing for social distancing and contact tracing, the network has a really important place to play there because we can pull insight from the but it isn't necessarily and out of the box type of integration. So I look at program ability and and what we're doing with debt net to give relevance to the network for those types of really critical conversations that every organization is having right now. It's a way to extrapolate its away thio full critical data so that I can make a decision and I if that decisions automated or if that decision requires some type of a manual intervention, regardless, we're still about connecting, or in this case, we're connecting insight with the people who need it most. The definite pounds we ran is really in respect for how critical this new skills that's going to be. It's not enough. Like I said, just to connect the world anymore. We need to leverage that network, the network for that critical insight. And when we dropped were created to beat the boss challenge, it was really simple. Hey, guys, I think this is important and I am going to go out, and I'm gonna achieve the certification myself because I want to continue to be very relevant. I'm gonna continue to be able to provide that insight for my customers and partners. So therefore I'm going for it. Anybody can get there before me. Maybe there's a little incentive tied to and the incentive, although it's funny, we interviewed a lot of ah, a lot of our team who achieved it Incentive with secondary. They just wanted have bragging rights like, Yeah, I beat Eric, Right, Right. >>Absolutely. No, that Z you know, put your money where your mouth is, right? If it's important than what you know, you should do it too. And you know, the whole not asking people to do what you wouldn't do yourself. So I think there's a lot of good leadership, uh, leadership lessons there as well. But I wanna extend kind of the conversation on the Koven impact. Right? Because I'm sure you've seen all the social media means you know who's driving your digital transformation, the CEO of the CMO or cove it. And we all know the answer to the question. But you know, you guys have already been dealing with kind of increased complexity around enterprise infrastructure, world in terms of cloud and public cloud and hybrid cloud and multi cloud, and people are trying to move stuff all the way around. Now suddenly had this co vid moment right in March, which is really a light switch moment. People didn't have time to plan or prepare for suddenly everybody working from home and it's not only you but your spouse and your kids and everybody else. So but now we're six months plus into this thing, and I would just love to get your perspective, you know, and kind of the change from Oh, my goodness, we have to react to the light switch moment. What do we do to make sure people can can get get what they need when they need it from where they are? But but then really moving from this is an emergency situation. Stopgap situation toe. This is going to extend for some period of time. And even when it's the acute crisis is over, you know this is going to drive. Ah, riel change in the way that people communicate in the way that people where they sit and do their job and kind of how customers are responding accordingly as the you know, kind of the narrative has changed from an emergency stop gap to this is the new normal that we really need thio to plan for. >>So I think I think you said it very well. I think anything that could be digitized any any interaction that could be driven virtually waas. And what's interesting is we, as you said. We went from that light switch moment where, and I believe the status this and I'll probably get the number wrong. But like in the United States here at the beginning, at the end of February, about 2% of the knowledge worker population was virtual, you know, working from home or in a remote work environment. And over the course of about 11 days, that number went from 2% to 70% in interesting that it worked. You know, there was a lot of hiccups along the way, and there was a lot of organizations making really quick decisions on How do I enable VPN scale of mass? How doe I, you know, leverage. You know, things like WebEx for virtual meetings in virtual connectivity much faster now that as you said that we've kind of gotten out of the fog of war or frog fog of battle organizations, we're looking at what they accomplished. And it was nothing short of Herculean and looking at this now from a transition. Thio Oh my gosh, we need to change, too. We have an opportunity to change and we're looking. We see a lot of organizations specifically around financial services, health care through the K through 20 educational environment, all looking at how can they doom or virtually for a couple of reasons? Obviously, there is a significant safety factor, and again, we're still in that we're still in the height of this pandemic. They want to make sure their employees, their customers, students patients remain safe. But second, we've found in discussions with a lot of senior I T executives and our customers that people are happier working from home. People are more productive working from home. And that again, the network that's been built over the course of the last few decades has been resilient enough to allow that to happen. And then, third, there is a potential cost savings here outside of people. The next most expensive resource that organizations are paying for is real estate. If they can shrink that real estate footprint while providing a better user experience at the locations that they're maintaining again leveraging things like location services, leveraging things like, uh, unified collaboration that's very personalized to the end users experience, they're going to do that and again they're going to save money. They're gonna have happier employees, and ultimately they're gonna make their their employees in their customers a lot safer. So we see, we believe that there is in some parts of the economy, a shift that is going to be more permanent. And some estimates put it as high as 15% of the current workforce is going to stay today in a virtual or a semi virtual working environment for the foreseeable future. >>Interesting. And I would say I'd say 15% is low, especially if you if you qualify it with, you know, part time, right? There was a great interview were doing and, you know, talk about working from home. He used to work from home as the exception, right? Because the cable person was coming or you get a new washing machine or something, where now that's probably get, you know, in many cases will shift to the other where I'm generally gonna work from home unless you know somebody's in town or have an important meeting or there's some special collaboration. Uh, that drives me to be in. But, you know, I wanna go back to Yukun and and really doubled down on. You know, I think most people spend too much time focusing, especially. We'll just say within the virtual events base where we play on the things you can't do virtually. We can't meet in the hall. We can't grab a quick coffee to drink instead of focusing on the positive things like we're accomplishing right here. You're in Belgium, right? Eric is in Ohio, were in California. Um, and you know, we didn't take three days to travel and and check into a hotel and and all that stuff to get together for this period of time. So there's a lot of stuff that digital enables. And I think, you know, people need to focus more on that versus continuing to focus on the two or three things that that it doesn't replace, and it doesn't replace those. So let's just get that off the table and move on with our lives because those are coming back anytime soon. >>No, totally. I think it's the balance of those things. It's guarding the fact that you're not necessarily working for home. I think the trick there is you could be sleeping at the office, but I think the positives airway way more out spoken. I you know, I look at myself I got much more exercise time in these last couple of months than I usually do because you don't travel. You don't have the jet lag and the connection. And then you talked about those face to face moments. I think a lot of people are, in a way, wanting to go back to the office part time, as Eric also explained. But a lot of it you could do virtually. We have virtual coffees with team or, you know, even here in Belgium are are local. General manager has, ah, virtual aperitif. Every Friday obviously skipped the one this week. But you know, there's there's ways to be very creative with the technology and the quality of the technology that the network enables, Um, you know, to to get the basketball world right, >>So I just we're gonna wrap the segment. I wanna give you guys both the last word. You both Francisco for a while and you know, Susie, we and the team on Definite has really grown this thing. I think we were there at the very beginning couple of 456 years ago. I can't keep track of time anymore, but you know, it's really really grown. And, you know, the timing is terrific to get into this more software defined world, which is where we are. I wonder if you could just, you know, kind of share a couple of thoughts is, you know, with a little bit of perspective. And you know what you're excited about today and kind of what you see coming down the road. Since you guys have been there for a while, you've been in the space. Uh, let's start with Yukun. >>Okay? I think the possibility it creates, I think, really program ability, software defined is really about the art of the possible. It's what you can dream up and then go code Eric talked about the relevance of it and how it maximizes that relevance. And a customer base is, um, you know, and then it is the evolution off the teams in terms of the creativity that they can bring to it. We're seeing really people dive into that in customers, um, co creating with us on. I think that's where we're going in terms of like the evolution off the value proposition there in terms of what technology can provide, but also how it impacts people as we discussed and and redefines process. >>I love that the art of the possible, which is a lot harder to execute in, uh, hardware than software certainly takes a lot longer. >>America, I >>love to get your thoughts. >>Absolutely. So I started my career in Cisco turning, putting I P phones onto the network. And back then, you know, it was, you know, 1 4002 when three idea of putting telephones onto the network was such a of just such an objectionable idea. And so many purists were telling us all the reasons it wouldn't work. Now, if we go forward again 19 years, the idea of not having them plugging into the network is a ridiculous idea. So we have a We're looking at an inflection point in this industry, and it's really it's not about programming is not necessarily about programming. It's about doing it smarter. It's about being more efficient. It's about driving automation. But again, it's about unlocking the value of what the network is. We've moved so far past what you know, just connectivity. The network touches everything and is more workload. Moves to the cloud is more workload moves to things like containers. The network is the really the only common element that ties all of these things together. The network needs to take its rightful place, uh, in the in the i t. Lexicon as being that critical for that critical insight provider for for how users are interacting with the network. How users air interacting with applications, how applications are interacting with one another. Program ability is a way to do that more efficiently with greater, greater degree of certainty, with much greater relevance into the overall delivery of I t services and digitization. So to me, I think we're gonna look back 20 years from now, probably even 10 and say, Man, we used to configure things manually. What was that like? I think I think really, this is This is the future, and I think we want to be aligned with where we're going versus where we've been. >>Well, coun Eric. Thank you for sharing your perspective. You know, it's it's really nice to have, you know, some historical reference on. It's also nice to be living in a new age where you can you can, you know, stay at the same company and and still refresh. You know, new challenges, new opportunities and grow this thing because a zoo said I remember those i p first i p phone days and I thought, Well, Ma Bell must be happy because the old Mother's Day problem is finally solved when we don't have to have a >>dedicated connection >>between every mother and every child in the middle of May. So good news. So thank you very much for sharing your, uh, your insights and really, really enjoyed the conversation. >>Thank you. >>Yeah. All >>right. He's kun. He was Eric. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube for continuing coverage of Cisco Definite Connect. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. Hey, welcome back. And Buddy Jeffrey here with the Cube coming from our Palo Alto studio with ongoing coverage of the Cisco Definite event is called Accelerating Automation with definite in the new normal. And we certainly know the new normal is not going away. We've been doing this since the middle of March. We're all the way to October. And so we're excited of our next guest. He's Thomas Shy V. He's the vice president of product marketing and data center networking for the intent based networking group at Cisco. Thomas, great to see you. >>Hey, good to see you, too. Yeah. Yeah. And truly running in normal, as everybody can see in our background. >>Exactly. Exactly so. But I mean, I'm curious. We've talked to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of leaders, you know, especially like back in March and April with this light switch moment, which was, you know, no time to prep. And suddenly everybody has to work from home. Teachers got to teach from home. And so you got the kids home. You got the spouse home. Everybody's home trying to get on the network and do their zoom calls in their classes. I'm curious from your perspective. You guys air right there on the on the network. You're right in the infrastructure. What did you hear and see? Kind of from your customers When suddenly, you know, March 16th hit and everybody had to go home. >>Well, good point. A. I do think we all appreciate the network much more than we used to do before on. Then the only other differences I'm really more on. Ravix calls and zoom called, but you know otherwise? Yes. Um what? What I do see, actually, is that, as I said, network becomes much more operates as a critical piece. And so before we really talked a lot about, uh, agility and flexibility these days, we talk much more about resiliency. Quite frankly, uh, what do I need to have in place with respect to network? To get my things from left to right and, you know, just 2000 east or west, as we say in the data center Right on. That just is for most of my customers, very, very important topic at this point, right? >>You know, it's it's amazing to think, you know, had this happened, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago. You know, the ability for so many people in the information industry to be able to actually make that transition relatively seamlessly. Eyes is actually pretty amazing. I'm sure there was some some excitement in some kudos in terms of, you know, it is all based on the network, and it is kind of this quiet thing in the background that nobody pays attention to. It's like a ref in the football game until they make a bad play. So, you know, it is pretty fascinating that you and your colleagues that put this infrastructure and that enabled us to really make that move with with with really no prep, no planning and actually have a whole lot of services delivered into our homes that were used to getting at the office or used to getting at school. >>Yeah, and I mean to your point, I mean, some of us did some planning. We're clearly talking about some of these thes trends in the way I look at this. Trans is being distributed data centers and having the ability to move your workloads and your access for users to wherever you wanna be. And so I think that clearly went on for a while. And so in a sense, we practice or knowing what we're prepping for. Um, but as I said, resiliency just became so much more important. And, you know, one of things. I actually do a little clock, a little little prep you for block I put out end of August around resiliency. Uh, you if you didn't, if you didn't put this in place, you better put in place because I think, as we all know, we saw her march. This is like, maybe two or three months. We're now in October. Uh, and I think this is the new normal for some time being. Yeah, >>I think so. So let's stick on that theme in terms of trends, right? The other great trend is public cloud, um, and hybrid cloud and multi cloud. There's all types of variants on that theme. Yeah, you had in that block post about resiliency and data center cloud networking data center cloud. You know, some people think Wait, it's it's kind of an either or either got my data center or I've got my stuff in the cloud and I got Public Cloud. And then, as I said, Hybrid cloud, you're talking really specifically about enabling, um, both in inner Data Center resiliency within multi data centers within the same enterprise as well as connecting to the cloud. That's probably counterintuitive for some people to think that that's something that Cisco is excited about and supporting. So I wonder if you can share, you know, kind of the market is changing. How you guys air reacting and really putting the things in place t to deliver customer choice. >>Yeah, I know. It's actually to me. It's really not counterintuitive, because in the end, what what I'm focusing on and the company's focus on is what our customers want to do and need to do on. That's really, um, would you know, most people call hybrid cloud or multi cloud, Uh, in in the end, what? What? This is really the ability to have the flexibility to move your workloads where you want him to be, and they have different reasons why you want to place them right. You might have placed them for security reason. You might have placed for clients. Reason depending on which customer segment you're after. If you're in the United States or in Europe, in Asia there are a lot of different reasons we're gonna put your things. And so I think in the end, what on enterprise looks for is that agility, flexibility and resiliency. And and so really, what you want to put in place is what we call like a cloud on ramp, right? You need to have an ability to move sings as needed. But the larger context action which we see in the last couple of months accelerating, is really this whole seem around digital transformation, which goes hand in hand. Then, was the requirement on the Teesside really do? And I t operations transformation, Right? How I t operates on. I think that's really exciting to see. And this is actually where a lot off my discussions I was customers. What does it actually mean with respect to the I t organization? And what are the operational changes? There's a lot of our customers they're going through, quite frankly, accelerated going through >>right and and automation is in the title of the event. So automation is you know is an increasingly important thing. You know, as the as we know and we hear all the time, you know, the flows of data, the complexity of the data, either the on the security or the way the networks moving or, as you said, shifting workloads around based on dynamic situations. Whether that's business security, etcetera, you too suffer to find networking has been around for a while. How are you seeing kind of this evolution in and adding mawr automation, You know, to more and more processes to free up those those, um, kind of limited resource is in terms of really skilled people to focus on the things that they should be focused on and not stuff that that hopefully you can, you know, get a machine to run with some level of >>automation. Yeah, that's a good point. And they said the Tekla and a half, you know, sometimes in my mind is really going from cloud ready, which I think most of infrastructures today to cloud native. And so let me a little expand on. This right is like the cloud ready is basically what we have put in place over the last 5 to 6 years. All the infrastructure that our customers have network infrastructure or the Nexus 9000. They're all cloud ready right now, what this really means. You have a P ice everywhere, right? Whether this is on the box, whether it's on the controller, whether this is on the operations tools, all of these a p i a neighborhood. And that's just the foundation for automation, right? You have to have that now. The next step really is What do you do with that capability? And right? And this is the integration was a lot off automation tools on. That's the whole range, right? This is where the I t operation transformation kicks in. Different customers a different speed, right? Some just You know, I used these AP ice and use normal tools that they have in the network world just to pull information. Some customers go for further and saying, I want to integrate this with extensive Deb equals some go even further and saying this is like the cloud native people saying, Oh, I want to use, let's say, redhead answerable. I want to use how she called terra form and use those things to actually drive. How I manage my infrastructure. And so that's really the combination of the automation capability. Plus, the integration was relevant cloud native, enabling tools that really is happening. At this point, we're seeing customers accelerating that. That motion, which really then drives, is how they run their I t operations. And so that's a pretty exciting, exciting area to see given. As I said, we have the infrastructure in place. There is no need for customers to actually do change something most of them have already. The infrastructures that can do this is just no doing the operation change the process, changes to actually get there >>right. And it's funny we we recently covered, you know, pager duty. And they highlight which you just talked about. The cloud native, which is, you know, all of these applications now were so interdependent on all these different a p. I s, you know, pulling data from all these applications. So a when they work great, it's terrific. But if there's a problem, you know there's a whole lot of potential throats to choke out there and find. Find those issues and it's all being connected via the network. So, you know, it's even Mawr. Critically important not only for the application, but for all these little tiny components within the application to deliver. You know, ultimately a customer experience within very small units of time s so that you don't lose that customer. You complete that transaction, they check out of the shopping cart. You know, all these these things that are now created with cloud native applications that just couldn't really do before. >>No, you're absolutely right. And this, this is like I just said, I'm actually very excited because it opens up a lot off abilities for our customers how they want to actually structure the operation, right? One of the nice things around this whole automation, plus, uh, true integration closer to integration is you actually open this up. Now, this whole automation trained not just to the network operations person, right? You also open it up and can use this for the sake cups person or for the death of a person or for the cloud tops engineering team. Right? Because the way it's structured, the way we built this, um, it's literally it's an A p I interface, and you can now decide what is your process? Do you wanna have? On what? Traditional process. You have a request number. Corporation teams executes request using these tools and enhance it back over. Or you say, Hey, maybe some of these security things I'm gonna hand over the second team and it can directly call these days a p I s right or even one step further. You can have the opportunity that the death of So the application team actually says, Hey, I got to write a whole infrastructure as code kind of a script or template and I just execute right and it's really just using what the infrastructure provides. And so that whole range off different user roles in our customer base. What they can do with the automation capability that's available. It's just very, very exciting, right, because it's literally unleashes a lot of flexibility, how they want to structure and how they wanna. We built the I T operations processes. >>That's interesting, you know, because the you know, the Dev ops culture has taken over a lot. Right obviously changed software programming for the last 20 years, and and I think you know there's a There's a lot of just kind of the concept of Dev ops versus necessarily. You know, the actual things that you do to execute that technique. And I don't think most people would think of, you know, network ops or, you know, netapp. You know, whatever the equivalent is in the networking world toe have, you know, kind of a fast changing dynamic kind of point of view versus a You know, stick it in, you know, spec it, stick it in, lock it down. So I wonder if you can You can share how, you know, kind of that, Dev ops, um attitude, point of view, workflow, whatever the right verb is has impacted, you know, things that Cisco and the way you guys think about networking and flexibility within the networking world. >>Yeah, literally. Absolutely. And again, it's all customer driven, right? Is none of this. None of this is really actually, you know, a little bit of credit. Maybe some of us where we have a vision, but a lot of this just customer driven feedback. Uh, yeah, we we do have even network operations teams comes to saying, Hey, we use answerable heavily on the computer side. We might use this for for seven. We want to use the same for networking. And so we made available all these integrations with the variety of state. Whether these are the switches, whether it's our A, C and D C and controller or our Martha said orchestration capabilities, all of these has answerable integration away. All right, The other one is you mentioned how she from Cherepkov telephone. We have integrations available and they see the request for these tools to use that on DSO. That is emotion. We're in for over a year now. And another block, actually, that's out there. We're just supposed to saying you all set what you can do on then in parallel to this, right? Just making the integration available. We also have a very, very heavy focus on on definite and enablement and training on, you know, a little pluck. And I know probably part of the segment. The whole definite community that Cisco has is very, very vibrant. Uh, and the beauty off this is right. If you look at this, whether your naps person or a deaf person or seconds person, it doesn't really matter. There is a lot of like capability available to just help you get going or go from one level to the next level, right? And there's simple things like sandbox environments where you can, you know, without stress, dry things out. Snippets of code A there you could do all of these things. And so we do see, it's a kind of a push and pull a tremendous amount of interest and the tremendous, uh uh, time people spend to learn, quite frankly. And that's another side product off. You know, the situation wherein people sit home and say, Okay, online learning is the thing. So thes, thes thes tools. They're used very heavily, right? >>So that's awesome. Because, you know, we've We've had Suzy we on a number of times. And I know he and Mandy and the team, right, really built this definite thing. And it really follows along this other theme that we see consistently across other pieces of tech, which is democratization, right? Democratization to the access tool, taking it out of of just a mahogany row with again really limited number of people that know how to make it work and and could make changes in opening up to a software defined world where now that you know It's his application centric point of view where the people that are building the APS to go create competitive advantage now don't have to wait for, you know, the one network person to help him out of these environments. Really interesting. I wonder, you know, when you look at what's happened with Public Cloud and how they kind of changed the buying parameter, how they kind of changed the the the degree of difficulty to get projects started. You know how you guys have kind of integrated that that type of thought process to make it easier for app developers to get their job done? >>Yeah, I mean again, it's It's I took a look at this more from a from a customer. Answer, right? It's the transformation process, and it always starts is I want agility. I want flexibility. Anyone resiliency, right. This is where we talked to a business owner what they're looking for and then it translates into into a night operations process, right? Your strategy needs to map them. How you actually do this on that? Just tries. Then what truths do you want to have available to actually enable this right and the enablement again? is for different roles right there is. You need to give sing services to the app developer and, uh, the platform team and the security team right to your point so the network can act at the same speed. But you also give to to the network operations teams because they need thio adjust. And they have the ability to react thio to some of these requirements. Right? And it's not just automation. I think we we focused on that. But there's also to your point, the need how to extend between data sent us, you know, just just for backup and recovery. And how do I extend into public clouds? Right. Uh, in the end, that's ah, that's the network connectivity problem. And we have soft us. We have made us available. We have integrations into, uh, W s. We have integrations into azure to actually make this very easy from a from a network perspective to extend your private domains private networks into virtual private networks on on these public cloud. So from an app developer perspective, now it looks like he's on the same network. It's a protective enterprise network. Some of it might sit here, someone might sit here, but it's really looking the same. And that's really in the end. I think what what a business looks at, right? They don't necessarily want to say I need to have something separate for this deployment was separate for that deployment. What they want is I need to deploy something. E need to do this resilient in the resilient way in an enjoyable way. Give me the tools. And so that's really where we focus, Um, and what we're driving right? It's that combination of automation consistently and then definite tools available that we support. But they're all open. Uh, they're all standard tools. The ones I mentioned right that everybody is using. So you're not getting into this. Oh, this is specific to Cisco. Uh, it's really democratization. I actually like the term. Yeah, >>it's It's a great terminate, and it's it's really interesting, especially with with the A p i s and the way everything is so tight together that everyone kind of has to enable this because that's what the customers demanding. Um, and it is all about the applications and workloads, and one of those things are moving, but they don't really wanna manage that. They just wanna, you know, deliver business, benefit to their customers and respond. Thio, you know, competitive threats in the marketplace, etcetera. So it's really an interesting time for the infrastructure, you know, to really support kind of this at first point of view versus the other way around is kind of what it used to be and and enable this hyper fast development, hyper fast change and in the competitive landscape, or else you will be left behind. Um, so super important stuff. >>Yeah. No, I totally agree. And as I said, I mean, it's it's kind of interesting because we we started on the Cisco Data Center side we started. It's probably six or seven years ago, uh, when we when we named the applications centric. Clearly, a lot of these concepts evolved, but in a sense it is. That reversal of the role from the network provides something, and you used Teoh. This is what I want to do, and I need a service thinking on the networking side to explosives that can be consumed, and so that clearly is playing out and said Automation Issa Kiki Foundation that we put in place in our customers. Most of our customers this point on these on these products? Uh, they have all the capabilities there. They can literally take advantage. There's really nothing that stops them points. >>Well, it's good times for you because I'm sure you've seen all the memes in in in social Media, right? What's driving your digital transformation? Is that the CEO, the CMO or cove it? And we all know the answer to the question, so I don't think the pace of change is going to slow down any time soon. So for keeping the network up and enabling us all the get done, what we have to get done and and all the little magic that happens behind the scenes >>Yeah, I know. Thanks. Thanks for having me. And again. Yeah, if you're listening and you're wondering, how do I get started? Cisco Definite. It's the place to go. It's, you know, fantastic fantastic environment, and I highly recommend everybody roll up your sleeve and you know the best reasons you can have. >>Yeah, and we know once the physical events come back, we've been toe definite, create a bunch of times, and it's a super vibrant, super excited, really engaged community. Sharing lots of information is kind of. That's still kind of that early vibe. You know where everyone is is still really enthusiastic and really about learning and sharing information. So, you know, like this using the team were really built a great thing. And we're happy to continue to cover it. And eventually we'll be back face to face. Okay, >>look forward to that as well. >>All right, Thanks. He's Thomason. Jeff, you're watching Continuing coverage of Cisco. Definite accelerating with automation and program ability. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. >>Hello and welcome to the Cube. I'm John for a year host. We've got a great conversation virtual event, accelerating automation with definite Cisco. Definite. And of course, we got the Cisco Brain Trust here. Cube alumni Suzy we Vice President, senior Vice President GM and also CTO of Cisco. Definite and ecosystem Success C X, All that great stuff. Many Wadley Who's the director? Senior director of definite certifications. Eric Field, director of developer advocacy. Susie Mandy. Eric, Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Great to see you down. So >>we're not in >>person. We >>don't Can't be at the definite zone. We can't be on site doing definite created All the great stuff we've been doing in the past three years were virtual the cube Virtual. Thanks for coming on. Uh, Susie, I gotta ask you because you know, we've been talking years ago when you started this mission and just the succession had has been awesome. But definite create has brought on a whole nother connective tissue to the definite community. This is what this ties into the theme of accelerating automation with definite because you said to me, I think four years ago everything should be a service or X a s is it's called and automation plays a critical role. Um, could you please share your vision? Because this is really important. And still only 5 to 10% of the enterprises have containerized things. So there's a huge growth curve coming with developing and program ability. What's your What's your vision? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what we know is that is, more and more businesses are coming online is I mean, they're all online, But is there growing into the cloud? Is their growing in new areas as we're dealing with security is everyone's dealing with the pandemic. There's so many things going on. But what happens is there's an infrastructure that all of this is built on and that infrastructure has networking. It has security. It has all of your compute and everything that's in there. And what matters is how can you take a business application and tie it to that infrastructure. How can you take, you know, customer data? How can you take business applications? How can you connect up the world securely and then be ableto really satisfy everything that businesses need. And in order to do that, you know, the whole new tool that we've always talked about is that the network is programmable, the infrastructure is programmable, and you don't need just acts writing on top. But now they get to use all of that power of the infrastructure to perform even better. And in order to get there, what you need to do is automate everything. You can't configure networks manually. You can't be manually figuring out policies, but you want to use that agile infrastructure in which you can really use automation. You can rise to a higher level business processes and tie all of that up and down the staff by leveraging automation. >>You remember a few years ago when definite create first started, I interviewed Todd Nightingale and we're talking about Muraki. You know, not to get in the weeds, but you know, switches and hubs and wireless. But if you look at what we were talking about, then this is kind of what's going on now. And we were just recently, I think our last physical event was Cisco um Europe in Barcelona before all the cove it hit and you had the massive cloud surgeon scale happening going on right when the pandemic hit. And even now, more than ever, the cloud scale the modern APS. The momentum hasn't stopped because there's more pressure now to continue addressing Mawr innovation at scale. Because the pressure to do that because >>the stay alive get >>your thoughts on, um, what's going on in your world? Because you were there in person. Now we're six months in scale is huge. >>We are, Yeah, absolutely. And what happened is as all of our customers as businesses around the world as we ourselves all dealt with, How do we run a business from home? You know, how do we keep people safe? How do we keep people at home and how do we work? And then it turns out, you know, business keeps rolling, but we've had to automate even more because >>you >>have to go home and then figure out how from home can I make sure that my I t infrastructure is automated out from home? Can I make sure that every employee is out there in working safely and securely? You know, things like call center workers, which had to go into physical locations and being kind of, you know, just, you know, blocked off rooms to really be secure with their company's information. They had to work from home. So we had to extend business applications to people's homes in countries like, you know, well around the world. But also in India, where it was actually not, you know, not they wouldn't let They didn't have rules toe let people work from home in these areas. So then what we had to do was automate everything and make sure that we could administer. You know, all of our customers could administer these systems from home, so that puts extra stress on automation. It puts extra stress on our customers digital transformation. And it just forced them toe, you know, automate digitally transform quicker. And they had to because you couldn't just go into a server room and tweak your servers. You have to figure out how to automate all of that. >>You know, one of them >>were still there, all in that environment today. >>You know, one of the hottest trends before the pandemic was observe ability, uh, kubernetes serve micro services. So those things again. All Dev ups. And you know, if you guys got some acquisitions, you thought about 1000 eyes. Um, you got a new one you just bought recently Port shift to raise the game in security, Cuban, All these micro services, So observe, ability, superhot. But then people go work at home, as you mentioned. How do you think? Observe, What do you observing? The network is under huge pressure. I mean, it's crashing on. People zooms and WebEx is and education, huge amount of network pressure. How are people adapting to this in the upside? How are you guys looking at the what's being programmed? What are some of the things that you're seeing with use cases around this program? Ability, challenge and observe ability, challenges? It's a huge deal. >>Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, going back to Todd Nightingale, right? You know, back when we talked to Todd before he had Muraki and he had designed this simplicity, this ease of use, this cloud managed, you know, doing everything from one central place. And now he has This goes entire enterprise and cloud business. So he is now applying that at that Bigger Attn. Bigger scale. Francisco and for our customers. And he is building in the observe ability and the dashboards and the automation of the A P. I s and all of it. But when we take a look at what our customers needed is again, they had to build it all in, um, they had to build in. And what happened was how your network was doing, how secure your infrastructure was, how well you could enable people toe work from home and how well you could reach customers. All of that used to be a nightie conversation. It became a CEO and a board level conversation. So all of a sudden CEOs were actually, you know, calling on the heads of I t and the CEO and saying, You know, how is our VPN connectivity? Is everybody working from home? How many people are, you know, connected and ableto work and watch their productivity? Eso All of a sudden, all these things that were really infrastructure I t stuff became a board level conversation and you know, once again, at first everybody was panicked and just figuring out how to get people working. But now what we've seen in all of our customers is that they're now building in automation, additional transformation and these architectures, and that gives them a chance to build in that observe ability. You know, looking for those events. The dashboards, you know? So it really has been fantastic to see what our customers are doing and what our partners air doing to really rise to that next level. >>Susan, I know you gotta go, but real quick, um, describe what? Accelerating automation with definite means. >>Well, you've been fault. You know, we've been working together on definite in the vision of the infrastructure program ability and everything for quite some time. And the thing that's really happened is yes, you need to automate, but yes, it takes people to do that. And you need the right skill sets in the program ability. So a networker can't be a networker. A networker has to be a network automation developer. And so it is about people. And it is about bringing infrastructure expertise together with software expertise and letting people run. Things are definite. Community has risen to this challenge. People have jumped in. They've gotten their certifications. We have thousands of people getting certified. You know, we have you know, Cisco getting certified. We have individuals. We have partners, you know, They're just really rising to the occasion. So accelerate accelerating automation while it is about going digital. It's also about people rising to the level of, you know, being able to put infrastructure and software expertise together to enable this next chapter of business applications of cloud directed businesses and cloud growth. So it actually is about people, Justus, much as it is about automation and technology. >>And we got definite create right around the corner virtual. Unfortunately, being personal will be virtual Susie. Thank you for your time. We're gonna dig into those people challenges with Mandy and Eric. Thank you for coming on. I know you got to go, but stay with us. We're gonna dig in with Mandy and Eric. Thanks. >>Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, John. Okay. >>Mandy, you heard Susie is about people, and one of the things that's close to your heart you've been driving is a senior director of definite certifications. Um is getting people leveled up? I mean, the demand for skills cybersecurity, network program, ability, automation, network design solution, architect cloud multi cloud design thes are new skills that are needed. Can you give us the update on what you're doing to help people get into the acceleration of automation game? >>Oh, yes, absolutely. The you know what we've been seeing is a lot of those business drivers that Susie was mentioning those air. What's accelerating? A lot of the technology changes, and that's creating new job roles or new needs on existing job roles where they need new skills. We are seeing, uh, customers, partners, people in our community really starting to look at, you know, things like Dev SEC ops engineer, network Automation engineer, network automation developer, which sues you mentioned and looking at how these fit into their organization, the problems that they solve in their organization. And then how do people build the skills to be able to take on these new job roles or add that job role to their current, um, scope and broaden out and take on new challenges? >>Eric, I want to go to you for a quick second on this, um uh, piece of getting the certifications. Um, first, before you get started, describe what your role is. Director of developer advocacy, because that's always changing and evolving what's the state of it now? Because with Cove and people are working at home, they have more time to contact, switch and get some certifications and that they can code more. What's your >>What's your role? Absolutely So it's interesting. It definitely is changing a lot. A lot of our historically a lot of focus for my team has been on those outward events. So going to the definite creates the Cisco lives and helping the community connect and help share technical information with them, doing hands on workshops and really getting people into. How do you really start solving these problems? Eso that's had to pivot quite a bit. Obviously, Sisco live us. We pivoted very quickly to a virtual event when when conditions changed and we're able to actually connect, as we found out with a much larger audience. So you know, as opposed to in person where you're bound by the parameters of you know how big the convention center is. We were actually able to reach a worldwide audience with are definite day that was kind of attached onto Sisco Live, and we got great feedback from the audience that now we're actually able to get that same enablement out to so many more people that otherwise might not have been able to make it. But to your broader question of you know what my team does. So that's one piece of it is is getting that information out to the community. So as part of that, there's a lot of other things we do as well. We were always helping out build new sandboxes, new learning labs, things like that that they can come and get whenever they're looking for it out on the definite site. And then my team also looks after communities such as the Cisco Learning Network, where there's there's a huge community that has historically been there to support people working on their Cisco certifications. We've seen a huge shift now in that group that all of the people that have been there for years are now looking at the definite certifications and helping other people that are trying to get on board with program ability. They're taking a lot of those same community enablement skills and propping up community with, you know, helping answer questions, helping provide content. They move now into the definite spaces well and are helping people with that sort of certifications. So it's great seeing the community come along and really see that >>I gotta ask you on the trends around automation. What skills and what developer patterns are you seeing with automation? Are Is there anything in particular? Obviously, network automation been around for a long time. Cisco's been leader in that. But as you move up, the staff has modern applications or building. Do you see any patterns or trends around what is accelerating automation? What people learning? >>Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned observe ability was big before Cove it and we actually really saw that amplified during co vid. So a lot of people have come to us looking for insights. How can I get that better observe ability now that we needed? Well, we're virtual eso. That's actually been a huge uptick, and we've seen a lot of people that weren't necessarily out looking for things before that air. Now, figuring out how can I do this at scale? I think one good example that Susie was talking about the VPN example, and we actually had a number of SCS in the Cisco community that had customers dealing with that very thing where they very quickly had to ramp up and one in particular actually wrote a bunch of automation to go out and measure all of the different parameters that I T departments might care about about their firewalls, things that you didn't normally look at. The old days you would size your firewalls based on, you know, assuming a certain number of people working from home. And when that number went to 100% things like licenses started coming into play where they need to make sure they had the right capacity in their platforms that they weren't necessarily designed for. So one of the essays actually wrote a bunch of code to go out, use them open source, tooling to monitor and alert on these things, and then published it so the whole community code could go out and get a copy of it. Try it out in their own environment. And we saw a lot of interest around that and trying to figure out Okay, now I could take that. I can adapt into what I need to see for my observe ability. >>That's great, Mandy, I want to get your thoughts on this, too, because as automation continues to scale. Um, it's gonna be a focus. People are at home. And you guys had a lot of content online for you. Recorded every session that in the definite zone learning is going on sometimes literally and non linearly. You've got the certifications, which is great. That's key. Great success there. People are interested. But what other learnings are you seeing? What are people, um, doing? What's the top top trends? >>Yeah. So what we're seeing is like you said, people are at home, they've got time, they want toe advance, their skill set. And just like any kind of learning, people want choice. They wanna be able to choose which matches their time that's available and their learning style. So we're seeing some people who want to dive into full online study groups with mentors leading them through a study plan. On we have two new expert lead study groups like that. We're also seeing whole teams at different companies who want to do an immersive learning experience together with projects and office hours and things like that. And we have a new offer that we've been putting together for people who want those kind of team experiences called Automation Boot Camp. And then we're also seeing individual who want to be able to, you know, dive into a topic, do a hands on lab, gets, um, skills, go to the rest of the day of do their work and then come back the next day. And so we have really modular, self driven hands on learning through the Definite Fundamentals course, which is available through DEV. Net. And then there's also people who are saying, I just want to use the technology. I like Thio experiment and then go, you know, read the instructions, read the manual, do the deeper learning. And so they're They're spending a lot of time in our definite sandbox, trying out different technologies. Cisco Technologies with open source technologies, getting hands on and building things, and three areas where we're seeing a lot of interest in specific technologies. One is around SD wan. There's a huge interest in people Skilling up there because of all the reasons that we've been talking about. Security is a focus area where people are dealing with new scale, new kinds of threats, having to deal with them in new ways and then automating their data center using infrastructure as code type principles. So those were three areas where we're seeing a lot of interest and you'll be hearing more about that at definite create. >>Awesome Eric and man, if you guys can wrap up the accelerated automated with definite package and virtual event here, um, and also t up definite create because definite create has been a very kind of grassroots, organically building momentum over the years. Again, it's super important because it's now the app world coming together with networking, you know, end to end program ability. And with everything is a service that you guys were doing everything with a piece. Um Onley can imagine the enablement that's gonna enable create Can >>you hear the >>memory real quick on accelerating automation with definite and TF definite create. Mandy will start with you. >>Yes, I'll go first, and then Eric can close this out. Um, so just like we've been talking about with you at every definite event over the past years, you know, Devon, it's bringing a p I s across our whole portfolio and up and down the stack and accelerating automation with definite. Suzy mentioned the people aspect of that the people Skilling up and how that transformed team transforms teams. And I think that it's all connected in how businesses are being pushed on their transformation because of current events. That's also a great opportunity for people to advance their careers and take advantage of some of that quickly changing landscape. And so would I think about accelerating automation with definite. It's about the definite community. It's about people getting those new skills and all the creativity and problem solving that will be unleashed by that community with those new skills. >>Eric, take us home. He accelerate automation. Definite and definite create a lot of developer action going on cloud native right now, your thoughts? >>Absolutely. I I think it's exciting. I mentioned the transition to virtual for definite day this year for Cisco Live, and we're seeing we're able to leverage it even further with create this year. So whereas it used to be, you know, confined by the walls that we were within for the event. Now we're actually able to do things like we're adding a start now track for people that I want to be there. They want to be a developer. Network automation developer, for instance, We've now got a track just for them where they could get started and start learning some of the skills they'll need, even if some of the other technical sessions were a little bit deeper than what they were ready for. Eso. I love that we're able to bring that together with the experience community that we usually do from across the industry, bringing us all kinds of innovative talks, talking about ways that they're leveraging technology, leveraging the cloud to do new and interesting things to solve their business challenges. So I'm really excited to bring that whole mixed together as well as getting some of our business units together to and talk straight from their engineering departments. What are they doing? What are they seeing? What are they thinking about when they're building new AP eyes into their platforms? What are the what problems are they hoping that customers will be able to solve with them? So I think together, seeing all of that and then bringing the community together from all of our usual channels. So, like I said, Cisco Learning Network, we've got a ton of community coming together, sharing their ideas and helping each other grow those skills. I see nothing but acceleration ahead of us for automation. >>Awesome. Thanks so much. God, man, can >>I add one had >>one more thing. >>Yeah, I was just going to say the other really exciting thing about create this year with the virtual nature of it is that it's happening in three regions. And, you know, we're so excited to see the people joining from all the different regions. And, uh, content and speakers and the region stepping upto have things personalized to their area to their community. And so that's a whole new experience for definite create that's going to be fantastic this year. >>You know, that's what God is going to close out and just put the final bow on that by saying that you guys have always been successful with great content focused on the people in the community. I think now, during with this virtual definite virtual definite create virtual the cube virtual, I think we're learning new things. People working in teams and groups on sharing content. We're gonna learn new things. We're gonna try new things, and ultimately people will rise up and will be resilient. I think when you have this kind of opportunity, it's really fun. And whoa, we'll ride the wave with you guys. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on. The Cuban talk about your awesome accelerate automation and definitely looking forward to it. Thank you. >>Thank you so much. >>Happy to be here. >>Okay, I'm John for the Cube. Virtual here in Palo Alto studios doing the remote content amendment Virtual until we're face to face. Thank you so much for watching. And we'll see you at definite create. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. >>Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff Freak here with the Cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios with ongoing coverage of Cisco Definite create. We've been going to definite create, I think, since the very beginning. This year, of course. Like everything else, it's it's virtual. So we're excited to cover it virtually and digitally like we have a lot of other shows here in 2020 and we're excited to have our next guest. We've got Kun Jacobs. He's the director of systems engineering. Francisco, Good to see you. Coun. >>Thank you for having me. >>And joining him is Eric Nappy is the VP of systems systems Engineering. Francisco. Good to see Eric. >>Good to be here. Thank you. >>Pleasure. So before we jump into kind of what's going on now, in this new great world of program ability and control, I want to kind of go back to the future for a minute. Because when I was doing some research for this interview, it was kun. I saw an old presentation that you were giving from 2006 about the changing evolution of the changing evolution of networking and moving from. I think the theme was a human centered, human centered network, and you were just starting to touch a little bit on video and online video. Oh my goodness, how far we have come. But but I would love to get kind of historical perspective because we've been talking a lot. And I know Eric Son plays football about the football analogy of the network is kind of like an offensive lineman where if they're doing a good job, you don't hear much about them. But they're really important to everything, and the only time you hear about him was when the flag is thrown. So if you look back with the historical perspective load and the numbers and the evolution of the network as we've moved to this modern time and you know thank goodness, because if Cove it hit five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know all of us in the information space would not have been able to make this transition, so I just I just love to get some historical perspective because you've been kind of charting this and mapping this for a very long time. >>Yeah, we absolutely have. I think you know what you're referring to was back in the day the human network campaign and to your point that the load, the number of hosts, the traffic just overall, the intelligence of the network has just evolved tremendously over the last decade and a half, 15 years or so. And you look at where we are now in terms of the programmable nature of the network and what that enables in terms of new degrees of relevance that we can create for the customers on how you know the role of I t. Has changed entirely again, especially during this pandemic. You know, the fact that it's now as a service and elastic eyes is absolutely fundamental to being able to ensure, on an ongoing basis a great customer experience. And so it's been It's been a very interesting right, indeed. Yeah, >>And then and then just to close the loop, the one of your more later interviews talking to Sylvia. You're the question is, are you developer an engineer? So And your whole advice to all these network engineers is just Just don't jump in and start doing some coding and learning. So you know, the focus and really the emphasis and where the opportunity to differentiate is a complete is completely 15 years over to the, you know, really software to find side. >>Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, you look at how the software world and the network has come together and how we're applying now, you know, basically the same construct of C I C D pipeline to network infrastructure. Look at network really as code and get all of the benefits from that in the familiarity of it, the way that our engineers have had to evolve in that is just, you know, quite quite significant in like the skill set. And the best thing is jump in, you know, dip your toe in the water, but continue to evolve that skill set. And, you know, don't don't be shy. It's It's a leap of faith for some of us who've been in the industry a bit longer. You know, we like to look at ourselves as the craftsman of the network, but now it's definitely software Centris City and the, um, program ability. >>Right? So, Eric, you've got some digital exhaust out there, too, that I was able to dig up Going back to 2000 and 2 752 page book in the very back corner of a dark, dirty, dusty Amazon warehouse is managing Cisco Network Security 752 pages. Wow. How has security changed? From a time where before I could just read a book, a big book, you know, throw some protocols in and probably block a bunch of ports to the world that we live in today, where everything is connected, everything is a p. I driven. Everything is software defined. You've got pieces of workload spread out all over the place. And, Oh, by the way, you need to bake security in at every single level of the application stack. >>Yeah, No eso Wow. Kudos that you you found that book. I'm really impressed there, so thank you. Little street credit. So I want to get on something that you you talked about because I think it's very important to to this overall conversation if we think about the scale of the network and coun hit on it briefly. You talked about it as well. We're seeing a massive explosion of devices by the you know it's estimated By the end of this year, there's gonna be about 27 billion devices on the global Internet. That's about 3.7 devices for every man, woman and child life. And if we extrapolate that out over the course of the next decade on the growth trajectory, we're on. And if you look at some of the published research on this, it's estimated there could be upwards of 500 billion devices accessing the global Internet on a on a daily basis in the primarily that that that is I o T devices. That's digitally connected devices. Anything that can be connected will be connect, but then introduces a really interesting security challenge because every one of those devices that is accessing the global Internet is within a company's infrastructure. Accessing pieces of corporate data is a potential attack factor, so we really need Thio and I think the right expression for this is we need to reimagine security because security is, as you said, not about perimeters. You know, I wrote that book back in 2002. I was talking about firewalls and a cutting edge technology was intrusion, prevention and intrusion detection. Now we need to look at security. Really? In the in the guise of under the under the under the realm of really two aspects the identity. Who is accessing the data in the context, What data is being access and that is going to require a level of intelligence, a level of automation and technologies like machine learning, an automated intelligence. They're going to be our artificial intelligence. Rather are gonna be table stakes because the sheer scale of what we're trying to secure is going to be untenable under current. You know, just current security practices mean the network is gonna have to be incredibly intelligent and leverage again, a lot of that AI type of data to match patterns of potential attacks and ideally, shut them down before they ever cause any type of damage. >>Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, one thing That cove it has done a bunk many things is kind of re taught us all about the power of exponential curves and how extremely large those things are and how fast they grow. We had Dave Rennes in on it Google Cloud a couple years ago, and I remember him talking about early days of Google when they were starting to map out kind of, as you describe kind of map out their growth curves, and they just figured out they could not hire if they hired everybody, they couldn't hire enough people to deal with it, right? So really kind of rethinking automation and re thinking about the way that you manage these things and and the level right, the old Is it a pet or is it or is it, um, part of the herd? And I think it's interesting what you talked about coun really human powered Internet and being driven by a lot of this video. But to what you just said, Erik, the next big wave right is I, O. T and five G. And I think you know, you talk about 3.7 of devices per person. That's nothing compared toa right, all these sensors and all these devices and all these factories because five G is really targeted to machine to machines, which there's ah lot of them, and they trade a lot of information really, really quickly. So, you know, I want to go back to Yukun thinking about this next great wave in a five G i o t kind of driven world where it's kind of like one voice kind of fell off compared to I p traffic on the network, I think you're going to see the same thing. Kind of human generated data relative to machine generated data is also gonna fall off dramatically. Is the machine generated data just skyrockets through the roof? >>Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think thio also what Eric touched on the visibility on that and they'll be able to process that data at the edge that's going to catalyze cloud adoption even further. And it's gonna, you know, make the role of the network the connectivity of it all, and the security within that crucially important. And then you look at the role of program ability. Within that, we're see the evolution going so fast. You look at the element of the software defined network in an I. O. T. Speed space. We see that we have hosts there that are not necessarily, you know, behaving like other hosts would on a network, for example, manufacturing floor production, robot or security camera. And what we're seeing is we're seeing you know, partners and customers employing program ability to make sure that we overcome some of the shortcomings, uh, in terms of where the network is at. But then how do you customize it in terms of the relevance that it can provide, bringing on board those those hosts in a very transparent way on then, you know, keep keep the agility of it and keep the speed of innovation going right, >>right. So, Eric, I want to come back to you and shift gears kind of back to the people will leave the A. D and the machines along along for middle minute. But I'm curious about what does beat the boss. I mean, I I go to your LinkedIn profile and it's just filled with congratulatory statements, but everyone's talking about beating the boss. You know, it's it's a really, you know, kind of interesting and different way toe to motivate people to build this new skill set in terms of getting software certifications within the Cisco world. And I just thought it was really cute the way that you clearly got people motivated because there's posts all over the place and they've all got their their nice big badge of their certification. But, you know, at a higher level, it is a different motivation to be a developer versus and engineering a technician. And it's a, you know, kind of a different point of view. And I just wonder if you could share, you know, some of the ways that you're kind of encouraging, you know, kind of this transformation within your own workforce as well as the partners, etcetera and really adopting kind of almost a software first in this program kind of point of view versus, you know, I'm just wiring stuff up. >>Apparently, a lot of people like to beat me. So I mean, that in of itself was was a was a great success. But, you know, if we think we take a step back, you know, what is Cisco about as an organization? I mean, obviously, he looked back to the very early days of our vision, right? It was. It was to change the way the world, you know, worked, played, live and learn. And if you think about and you hit on this when we were you know, your discussion with with With Kun in the early days of Cove it. We really saw that play out as so much shifted from, you know, in person type of interactions to virtual interactions in the network that that our customers, our partners, our employees built over the course of the last several last three decades really help the world continue Thio to to do business for students to continue to go thio school or, you know, clinicians to connect with patients. If I think about that mission to meet program ability is just the next generation of that mission, uh, continuing to enable the world to communicate, continuing to enable customers, employees, partners to, uh, essentially leverage the network for more than just connectivity. Now the leverage it for critical insight again, If we look at some of the some of the use cases that we're seeing for social distancing and contact tracing, the network has a really important place to play there because we can pull insight from the but it isn't necessarily and out of the box type of integration. So I look at program ability and and what we're doing with debt net to give relevance to the network for those types of really critical conversations that every organization is having right now. It's a way to extrapolate its away thio full critical data so that I can make a decision and I if that decisions automated or if that decision requires some type of a manual intervention, regardless, we're still about connecting, or in this case, we're connecting insight with the people who need it most. The definite pounds we ran is really in respect for how critical this new skills that's going to be. It's not enough. Like I said, just to connect the world anymore. We need to leverage that network, the network for that critical insight. And when we dropped were created to beat the boss challenge, it was really simple. Hey, guys, I think this is important and I am going to go out, and I'm gonna achieve the certification myself because I want to continue to be very relevant. I'm gonna continue to be able to provide that insight for my customers and partners. So therefore I'm going for it. Anybody can get there before me. Maybe there's a little incentive tied to and the incentive, although it's funny, we interviewed a lot of ah, a lot of our team who achieved it Incentive with secondary. They just wanted have bragging rights like, Yeah, I beat Eric, Right, Right. >>Absolutely. No, that Z you know, put your money where your mouth is, right? If it's important than what you know, you should do it too. And you know, the whole not asking people to do what you wouldn't do yourself. So I think there's a lot of good leadership, uh, leadership lessons there as well. But I wanna extend kind of the conversation on the Koven impact. Right? Because I'm sure you've seen all the social media means you know who's driving your digital transformation, the CEO of the CMO or cove it. And we all know the answer to the question. But you know, you guys have already been dealing with kind of increased complexity around enterprise infrastructure, world in terms of cloud and public cloud and hybrid cloud and multi cloud, and people are trying to move stuff all the way around. Now suddenly had this co vid moment right in March, which is really a light switch moment. People didn't have time to plan or prepare for suddenly everybody working from home and it's not only you but your spouse and your kids and everybody else. So but now we're six months plus into this thing, and I would just love to get your perspective, you know, and kind of the change from Oh, my goodness, we have to react to the light switch moment. What do we do to make sure people can can get get what they need when they need it from where they are? But but then really moving from this is an emergency situation. Stopgap situation toe. This is going to extend for some period of time. And even when it's the acute crisis is over, you know this is going to drive. Ah, riel change in the way that people communicate in the way that people where they sit and do their job and kind of how customers are responding accordingly as the you know, kind of the narrative has changed from an emergency stop gap to this is the new normal that we really need thio to plan for. >>So I think I think you said it very well. I think anything that could be digitized any any interaction that could be driven virtually waas. And what's interesting is we, as you said. We went from that light switch moment where, and I believe the status this and I'll probably get the number wrong. But like in the United States here at the beginning, at the end of February, about 2% of the knowledge worker population was virtual, you know, working from home or in a remote work environment. And over the course of about 11 days, that number went from 2% to 70% in interesting that it worked. You know, there was a lot of hiccups along the way, and there was a lot of organizations making really quick decisions on How do I enable VPN scale of mass? How doe I, you know, leverage. You know, things like WebEx for virtual meetings in virtual connectivity much faster now that as you said that we've kind of gotten out of the fog of war or frog fog of battle organizations, we're looking at what they accomplished. And it was nothing short of Herculean and looking at this now from a transition. Thio Oh my gosh, we need to change, too. We have an opportunity to change and we're looking. We see a lot of organizations specifically around financial services, health care through the K through 20 educational environment, all looking at how can they doom or virtually for a couple of reasons? Obviously, there is a significant safety factor, and again, we're still in that we're still in the height of this pandemic. They want to make sure their employees, their customers, students patients remain safe. But second, we've found in discussions with a lot of senior I T executives and our customers that people are happier working from home. People are more productive working from home. And that again, the network that's been built over the course of the last few decades has been resilient enough to allow that to happen. And then, third, there is a potential cost savings here outside of people. The next most expensive resource that organizations are paying for is real estate. If they can shrink that real estate footprint while providing a better user experience at the locations that they're maintaining again leveraging things like location services, leveraging things like, uh, unified collaboration that's very personalized to the end users experience, they're going to do that and again they're going to save money. They're gonna have happier employees, and ultimately they're gonna make their their employees in their customers a lot safer. So we see, we believe that there is in some parts of the economy, a shift that is going to be more permanent. And some estimates put it as high as 15% of the current workforce is going to stay today in a virtual or a semi virtual working environment for the foreseeable future. >>Interesting. And I would say I'd say 15% is low, especially if you if you qualify it with, you know, part time, right? There was a great interview were doing and, you know, talk about working from home. He used to work from home as the exception, right? Because the cable person was coming or you get a new washing machine or something, where now that's probably get, you know, in many cases will shift to the other where I'm generally gonna work from home unless you know somebody's in town or have an important meeting or there's some special collaboration. Uh, that drives me to be in. But, you know, I wanna go back to Yukun and and really doubled down on. You know, I think most people spend too much time focusing, especially. We'll just say within the virtual events base where we play on the things you can't do virtually. We can't meet in the hall. We can't grab a quick coffee to drink instead of focusing on the positive things like we're accomplishing right here. You're in Belgium, right? Eric is in Ohio, were in California. Um, and you know, we didn't take three days to travel and and check into a hotel and and all that stuff to get together for this period of time. So there's a lot of stuff that digital enables. And I think, you know, people need to focus more on that versus continuing to focus on the two or three things that that it doesn't replace, and it doesn't replace those. So let's just get that off the table and move on with our lives because those are coming back anytime soon. >>No, totally. I think it's the balance of those things. It's guarding the fact that you're not necessarily working for home. I think the trick there is you could be sleeping at the office, but I think the positives airway way more out spoken. I you know, I look at myself I got much more exercise time in these last couple of months than I usually do because you don't travel. You don't have the jet lag and the connection. And then you talked about those face to face moments. I think a lot of people are, in a way, wanting to go back to the office part time, as Eric also explained. But a lot of it you could do virtually. We have virtual coffees with team or, you know, even here in Belgium are are local. General manager has, ah, virtual aperitif. Every Friday obviously skipped the one this week. But you know, there's there's ways to be very creative with the technology and the quality of the technology that the network enables, Um, you know, to to get the basketball world right, >>So I just we're gonna wrap the segment. I wanna give you guys both the last word. You both Francisco for a while and you know, Susie, we and the team on Definite has really grown this thing. I think we were there at the very beginning couple of 456 years ago. I can't keep track of time anymore, but you know, it's really really grown. And, you know, the timing is terrific to get into this more software defined world, which is where we are. I wonder if you could just, you know, kind of share a couple of thoughts is, you know, with a little bit of perspective. And you know what you're excited about today and kind of what you see coming down the road. Since you guys have been there for a while, you've been in the space. Uh, let's start with Yukun. >>Okay? I think the possibility it creates, I think, really program ability, software defined is really about the art of the possible. It's what you can dream up and then go code Eric talked about the relevance of it and how it maximizes that relevance. And a customer base is, um, you know, and then it is the evolution off the teams in terms of the creativity that they can bring to it. We're seeing really people dive into that in customers, um, co creating with us on. I think that's where we're going in terms of like the evolution off the value proposition there in terms of what technology can provide, but also how it impacts people as we discussed and and redefines process. >>I love that the art of the possible, which is a lot harder to execute in, uh, hardware than software certainly takes a lot longer. >>America, I >>love to get your thoughts. >>Absolutely. So I started my career in Cisco turning, putting I P phones onto the network. And back then, you know, it was, you know, 1 4002 when three idea of putting telephones onto the network was such a of just such an objectionable idea. And so many purists were telling us all the reasons it wouldn't work. Now, if we go forward again 19 years, the idea of not having them plugging into the network is a ridiculous idea. So we have a We're looking at an inflection point in this industry, and it's really it's not about programming is not necessarily about programming. It's about doing it smarter. It's about being more efficient. It's about driving automation. But again, it's about unlocking the value of what the network is. We've moved so far past what you know, just connectivity. The network touches everything and is more workload. Moves to the cloud is more workload moves to things like containers. The network is the really the only common element that ties all of these things together. The network needs to take its rightful place, uh, in the in the i t. Lexicon as being that critical for that critical insight provider for for how users are interacting with the network. How users air interacting with applications, how applications are interacting with one another. Program ability is a way to do that more efficiently with greater, greater degree of certainty, with much greater relevance into the overall delivery of I t services and digitization. So to me, I think we're gonna look back 20 years from now, probably even 10 and say, Man, we used to configure things manually. What was that like? I think I think really, this is This is the future, and I think we want to be aligned with where we're going versus where we've been. >>Well, coun Eric. Thank you for sharing your perspective. You know, it's it's really nice to have, you know, some historical reference on. It's also nice to be living in a new age where you can you can, you know, stay at the same company and and still refresh. You know, new challenges, new opportunities and grow this thing because a zoo said I remember those i p first i p phone days and I thought, Well, Ma Bell must be happy because the old Mother's Day problem is finally solved when we don't have to have a >>dedicated connection >>between every mother and every child in the middle of May. So good news. So thank you very much for sharing your, uh, your insights and really, really enjoyed the conversation. >>Thank you. >>Yeah. All >>right. He's kun. He was Eric. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube for continuing coverage of Cisco Definite Connect. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. Hey, welcome back. And writer Jeffrey here with the Cube coming from our Palo Alto studio with ongoing coverage of the Cisco Definite event is called Accelerating Automation with definite in the new normal. And we certainly know the new normal is not going away. We've been doing this since the middle of March. We're all the way to October. And so we're excited of our next guest. He's Thomas Chyba. He's the vice president of product marketing and data center networking for the intent based networking group at Cisco. Thomas, great to see you. >>Hey, good to see you, too. Yeah, truly. When any normal as everybody can see in our background. >>Exactly. Exactly So. But I mean, I'm curious. We've talked to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of leaders, you know, especially like back in March and April with this light switch moment, which was, you know, no time to prep. And suddenly everybody has to work from home. Teachers got to teach from home. And so you got the kids home. You got the spouse home everybody's home trying to get on the network and do their zoom calls in their classes. I'm curious from your perspective. You guys air right there on the on the network. You're right in the infrastructure. What did you hear and see? Kind of from your customers When suddenly, you know, March 16th hit and everybody had to go home. >>Well, good point. A. I do think we all appreciate the network much more than we used to do before on. Then the only other differences. I'm really more on WebEx calls and zoom calls, but you know otherwise? Yes. Um What? What I do see, actually, is that, as I said, network becomes much more office as a critical piece. And so before we really talked a lot about agility and flexibility. These days, we're talking much more about resiliency. Quite frankly, on what do I need to have in place with respect to network, To get my things from left to right and, you know, most 2000 east or west, as we say in the data center. Right on. That just is for most of my customers, very, very boring topic at this point, right? >>You know, it's It's amazing to think, you know, had this happened, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago. You know, the ability for so many people in the information industry to be able to actually make that transition relatively seamlessly. Eyes is actually pretty amazing. I'm sure there was some some excitement in some kudos in terms of, you know, it is all based on the network, and it is kind of this quiet thing in the background that nobody pays attention to. It's like a ref in the football game until they make a bad play. So you know, it is pretty fascinating that you and your colleagues that put this infrastructure and that enabled us to really make that move with with with really no prep, no planning and actually have a whole lot of services delivered into our homes that were used to getting at the office or used to getting at school. >>Yeah, and I mean to your point, I mean, some of us did some planning. We clearly talking about some of these thes trends in the way I look at this trans as being distributed data centers and having the ability to move your workloads and your access for users to wherever you wanna be. And so I think that clearly went on for a while. And so, in a sense, we we practice or knowing what we're prepping for. Um, But as I said, resiliency just became so much more important. And, you know, one of things. I actually do a little block a little little prep before block I put out into of August around resiliency. Uh, you if you didn't, if you didn't put this in place, you better put in place because I think, as we all know, we saw her march. This is like, maybe two or three months. We're now in October. Uh, and I think this is the new normal for some time being. Yeah, >>I think so. So let's stick on that theme in terms of trends, right? The other great trend is public cloud, um, and hybrid cloud and multi cloud. There's all types of variants on that theme. Yeah, you had in that block post about resiliency and data center cloud networking data center cloud. You know, some people think Wait, it's it's kind of an either or either got my data center or I've got myself in the cloud and I got Public Cloud. And then, as I said, Hybrid cloud, you're talking really specifically about enabling, um, both in inner data Center resiliency within multi data centers within the same enterprise as well as connecting to the cloud. That's probably counterintuitive for some people to think that that's something that Cisco is excited about and supporting. So I wonder if you can share, you know, kind of the market is changing. How you guys air reacting and really putting the things in place t to deliver customer choice. >>Yeah, I know. It's actually to me. It's really not counterintuitive, because in the end, what what I'm focusing on and the company's focus on is what our customers want to do. I need to do on. That's really, um, would you know most people call hybrid cloud or multi cloud in the end. What what? This is really the ability to have the flexibility to move your workloads where you want him to be, and they have different reasons why you want to place them right. You might have placed them for security reason you might have placed for clients reason, depending on which customer segment you're after? If you're in the United States or in Europe, In Asia there are a lot of different reasons we're gonna put your things. And so I think in the end, what on enterprise looks for is that agility, flexibility and resiliency. And and so really, what you want to put in place is what we call like a cloud on ramp, right? You need to have an ability to move sings as needed. But the larger context action which we see in the last couple of months accelerating, is really this whole seem around digital transformation, which goes hand in hand. Then, was the requirement on the Teesside really do? And I t operations transformation, Right? How I t operates on. I think that's really exciting to see. And this is actually a lot off my discussions. I was customers. What does it actually mean with respect to the I T organization? And what are the operational changes? There's a lot of our customers they're going through, quite frankly, accelerated going through >>right and and automation is in the title of the event. So automation is, you know, is an increasingly important thing. You know, as the way No. And we hear all the time. You know, the flows of data, the complexity of the data, either the on the security or the way the networks moving or, as you said, shifting workloads around based on dynamic situations. Whether that's business security, etcetera, you too suffer defined networking has been around for a while. How are you seeing kind of this evolution in and adding mawr automation, You know, to more and more processes to free up those those, um, kind of limited resource is in terms of really skilled people to focus on the things that they should be focused on and not stuff that that hopefully you can, you know, get a machine to run with some level of automation. >>Yeah, Yeah, that's a good point. And it said the tech line a half you know, sometimes in my mind is really going from cloud ready, which is in most of infrastructures today to cloud native. And so let me a little expand on. This right is like the cloud ready is basically what we have put in place over the last 5 to 6 years. All the infrastructure that our customers have network infrastructure. All the Nexus 9000. There are cloud ready right now. What this really means. You have a P ice everywhere, right? Whether this is on the box, whether it's on the controller, whether this is on the operations tools, all of these a p i n neighbor. And that's just the foundation for automation, right? You have to have that now. The next step really is what do you do with that capability and right? And this is the integration with a lot off automation tools on. That's the whole range, right? This is where the I t operation transformation kicks in. Different customers a different speed, right? Some just You know, I used these AP ice and use normal tools that they have in the network world just to pull information. Some customers go for further and saying, I want to integrate this with, like some seed individuals. Some go even further and saying This is like the cloud native people saying, Oh, I want to use, let's say, redhead answerable. I want to use how she called terra form and use those things to actually drive how I manage my infrastructure. And so that's really the combination of the automation capability plus the integration was relevant cloud native enabling tools that really is happening. At this point. We're seeing customers accelerating that that motion, which really then tribes, is how they run their I t operations. And so that's a pretty exciting, exciting area to see given. As I said, we have the infrastructure in place. There's no need for customers. Actually do change something. Most of them have already the infrastructures that could do this. There's just no doing the operation change the process changes to actually get there, >>right? It's funny we we recently covered, you know, pager duty. And they highlight which you just talked about. The cloud native, which is, you know, all of these applications now were so interdependent on all these different a p I s, you know, pulling data from all these applications. So a when they work great, it's terrific. But if there's a problem, you know there's a whole lot of potential throats to choke out there and find. Find those issues, and it's all being connected via the network. So, you know, it's even mawr critically important not only for the application but for all these little tiny components within the application to deliver. You know, ultimately a customer experience within very small units of time s so that you don't lose that customer. You complete that transaction, they check out of the shopping cart. You know all these? We have these things that are now created with cloud native applications that just couldn't really do before. >>No, you're absolutely right. And this is like I just said, I'm actually very excited because it opens up a lot off abilities for our customers how they want to actually structure the operation, right? One of the nice things around this whole automation, plus, uh, true integration closer to integration is you actually open this up now, this whole automation trained not just to the network operations person, right? You also open it up and can use this for the sake of this person or for the death of a person or for the cloud tops engineering team. Right? Because the way it's structured the way we built this, um, it's literally it's an A P I interface, and you can now decide what is your process? Do you wanna have on what traditional process you have a request number. Corporation teams executes request using these tools and then hands it back over or you say, Hey, maybe some of these security things I gotta hand over the Cyclops team and they can directly call these days a piece, right or even one step further. You can have the opportunity that the death of the application team actually says, Hey, I got to write a whole infrastructure as code kind of a script or template and I just execute right And it's really just using what the infrastructure provides. And so that whole range off different user roles in our customer base. What they can do with the automation capability that's available. It's just very, very exciting, right, because it's literally unleashes a lot of flexibility, how they want to structure and how they wanna rebuild the I T operations processes. >>That's interesting, you know, because the you know the Dev ops culture has taken over a lot. Right obviously changed software programming for the last 20 years, and and I think you know there's a There's a lot of just kind of the concept of Dev ops versus necessarily, you know, the actual things that you do to execute that technique. And I don't think most people would think of, you know, network ops or netapp. You know, whatever the equivalent is the networking world toe have, you know, kind of a fast changing dynamic kind of point of view versus a You know, stick it in, you know, spec it, stick it in, lock it down. So I wonder if you can You can share how, you know, kind of that, Dev ops, um attitude, point of view, workflow, whatever the right verb is has impacted, you know, things that Cisco and the way you guys think about networking and flexibility within the networking world. >>Yeah, literally. Absolutely. And again, it's all customer driven, right? Is none of this. None of this is really actually, you know, a little bit of credit. Maybe some of us where we have a vision, but a lot of this just customer driven feedback. Uh, yeah, we we do have even network operations teams comes to saying, Hey, we use answerable heavily on the computer side. We might use this for for seven. We want to use the same for networking. And so we made available all these integrations with the variety of state. Whether these are the switches, whether it's our A, C and D C and controller or our Martha said orchestration capabilities, all of these has answerable integration away. All right, The other one is you mentioned how she from Cherepkov telephone. We have integrations available and they see the request for these tools to use that on DSO. That is emotion We're in for over a year now. And another block, actually, that's out there. We're just supposed to saying you all set what you can do on then in parallel to this, right? Just making the integration available. We also have a very, very heavy focus on on definite and enablement and training on, you know, a little pluck. And I know probably part of the segment. The whole definite community that Cisco has is very, very vibrant. Uh, and the beauty off this is right. If you look at this, whether your naps person or a deaf person or seconds person doesn't really matter, there's a lot of like capability available to just help you get going or go from one level to the next level. Right. And there's simple things, like sandbox environments where you can, you know, without stress, try things out. Snippets of code A there you can do all of these things. And so we do see, it's a kind of a push and pull a tremendous amount of interest and the tremendous, uh, time people spend to learn, quite frankly. And that's another side product off. You know, the situation wherein people sit home and say Okay, online learning is the thing so thes, thes thes tools they used very heavily, >>right? So that's awesome. Because, you know, we've we've had Suzy we on a number of times. And I know he and Mandy and the team right, really built this definite thing. And it really follows along this other theme that we see consistently across other pieces of tech, which is democratization right? Democratization to the access tool, taking it out of of just the mahogany row with again really limited number of people that know how to make it work and and could make changes in opening up to a software defined world where now that you know, it's his application centric point of view, where the people that are building the APs to go create competitive advantage now Don't have to wait for, you know, the one network person to help him out of these environments. Really interesting. I wonder if you know, when you look at what's happened with Public Cloud and how they kind of changed the buying parameter, how they kind of changed the the the degree of difficulty to get projects started. You know how you guys have kind of integrated that that type of thought process to make it easier for app developers to get their job done? >>Yeah, I mean, again, it's it's I took a look at this more from from a customer answer. It's the transformation process, and it always starts is I want agility. I want flexibility. Everyone resiliency, right. This is where we talked to a business owner what they're looking for, and then it translates into into a night operations process, right? Your strategy needs to map them. How you actually do this on that Just strikes. Then what truths do you want to have available to actually enable this? Right? And the enablement again is for different roles. Right? There is. You need to give sing services to the app developer and, uh the platform team in the security right to your point. So the network, uh, can act at the same speed. But you also give tools to the network operations teams because they need thio adjust. And they have the ability to react thio to some of these requirements. Right? And it's not just automation. I think we we focused on that. But there's also to your point, the need how to extend between data sent us, you know, just just for backup and recovery. And how do I extend into public clouds? Right. Uh, in the end, that's Ah, that's the network connectivity problem. And we have soft us. We have made us available. We have integrations into, uh, W s. We have integrations into azure to actually make this very easy from a from a network perspective to extend your private domains private networks into virtual private networks on on these public cloud. So from an app developer perspective, now it looks like he's on the same network. It's a protective enterprise network. Some of it might sit here, someone might sit here, but it's really looking the same. And that's really in the end, I think. What what a business looks at right. They don't necessarily want to say I need to have something separate for this deployment was a separate for that deployment. What they want is I need to deploy something. E need to do this resilient in the resilient way in an enjoyable way. Give me the tools. And so that's really where we focused, Um, and what we're driving right? It's that combination of automation consistently and then definite tools available that we support. But they're all open. Uh, there are standard tools. The ones I mentioned right that everybody is using. So you're not getting into this, So that's a specific to Cisco. Uh, it's really democratization. I actually like the term. Yeah, >>it's It's a great terminate, and it's it's really interesting, especially with with the A p i s and the way everything is so tight together that everyone kind of has to enable this because that's what the customers demanding. Um, and it is all about the applications and workloads, and one of those things are moving, but they don't really wanna manage that. They just wanna, you know, deliver business, benefit to their customers and respond Thio, You know competitive threats in the marketplace, etcetera. So it's really an interesting time for the infrastructure, you know, to really support kind of. This at first point of view versus the other way around is kind of what it used to be and and enable this hyper fast development, hyper fast change and in the competitive landscape, or else you will be left behind. Um, so super important stuff. >>Yeah. No, I totally agree. And as I said, I mean, it's it's kind of interesting because we we started on the Cisco Data Center side we started. It's probably six or seven years ago, uh, when we when we named the applications centric. Clearly, a lot of these concepts evolved, but in a sense it is. That reversal of the role from the network provides something, and you used Teoh. This is what I want to do. And I need a service thinking on the networking side to explosives that can be consumed, and so that clearly is playing out and said automation is a key key foundation that we put in place in our customers. Most of our customers this point on these on these products, uh, they have all the capabilities there, they can literally take advantage. There's really nothing that stops them point. >>Well, it's good times for you because I'm sure you've seen all the memes in in in social media, right? What's driving your digital transformation? Is that the CEO, the CMO or cove it? And we all know the answer to the question, so I don't think the pace of change is going to slow down any time soon. So for keeping the network up and enabling us all the get done, what we have to get done and and all the little magic that happens behind the scenes >>Yeah, no thanks. Thanks for having me. And again. Yeah, if you're listening and you're wondering, how do I get started? Cisco Definite. It's the place to go. It's, you know, fantastic, fantastic environment. And I highly recommend everybody roll up your sleeve and you know the best reasons you can have. >>Yeah, and we know once the physical events come back, we've been toe definite, create a bunch of times, and it's a super vibrant, super excited, really engaged community. Sharing lots of information is kind of that's still kind of that early vibe. You know where everyone is is still really enthusiastic and really about learning and sharing information. So, you know, like this using the team were really built a great thing. And we're happy to continue to cover it. And eventually we'll be back face to face. >>Okay, Look forward to that as well. >>All right, Thanks. He's Thomason. Jeff, you're watching Continuing coverage of Cisco. Definite accelerating with automation and program ability. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. >>Hello and welcome to the Cube. I'm John for a year host. We've got a great conversation virtual event, accelerating automation with definite Cisco. Definite. And of course, we got the Cisco Brain Trust here. Cube alumni Suzy we Vice President, senior Vice President GM and also CTO of Cisco. Definite and ecosystem Success C X, All that great stuff. Many Wadley Who's the director? Senior director of definite certifications. Eric Field, director of developer advocacy. Susie Mandy. Eric, Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Great to see you >>down. So we're not in person. We >>don't Can't be at the definite zone. We can't be on site doing definite created All the great stuff we've been doing in the past three years were virtual the cube Virtual. Thanks for coming on. Uh, Susie, I gotta ask you because you know, we've been talking years ago when you started this mission and just the succession had has been awesome. But definite create has brought on a whole nother connective tissue to the definite community. This is what this ties into the theme of accelerating automation with definite because you said to me, I think four years ago everything should be a service or X a s is it's called and automation plays a critical role. Um, could you please share your vision? Because this is really important. And still only 5 to 10% of the enterprises have containerized things. So there's a huge growth curve coming with developing and program ability. What's your What's your vision? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what we know is that is, more and more businesses are coming online is I mean, they're all online, But is there growing into the cloud? Is their growing in new areas as we're dealing with security is everyone's dealing with the pandemic. There's so many things going on. But what happens is there's an infrastructure that all of this is built on and that infrastructure has networking. It has security. It has all of your compute and everything that's in there. And what matters is how can you take a business application and tie it to that infrastructure. How can you take, you know, customer data? How can you take business applications? How can you connect up the world securely and then be ableto really satisfy everything that businesses need. And in order to do that, you know, the whole new tool that we've always talked about is that the network is programmable, the infrastructure is programmable, and you don't need just acts writing on top. But now they get to use all of that power of the infrastructure to perform even better. And in order to get there, what you need to do is automate everything. You can't configure networks manually. You can't be manually figuring out policies, but you want to use that agile infrastructure in which you can really use automation. You can rise to a higher level business processes and tie all of that up and down the staff by leveraging automation. >>You remember a few years ago when definite create first started, I interviewed Todd Nightingale and we're talking about Muraki. You know, not to get in the weeds, but you know, switches and hubs and wireless. But if you look at what we were talking about, then this is kind of what's going on now. And we were just recently, I think our last physical event was Cisco um Europe in Barcelona before all the cove it hit and you had the massive cloud surgeon scale happening going on right when the pandemic hit. And even now, more than ever, the cloud scale the modern APS. The momentum hasn't stopped because there's more pressure now to continue addressing Mawr innovation at scale. Because the pressure to do that because >>the stay alive get >>your thoughts on, um, what's going on in your world? Because you were there in person. Now we're six months in scale is huge. >>We are, Yeah, absolutely. And what happened is as all of our customers as businesses around the world as we ourselves all dealt with, How do we run a business from home? You know, how do we keep people safe? How do we keep people at home and how do we work? And then it turns out, you know, business keeps rolling, but we've had to automate even more because >>you >>have to go home and then figure out how from home can I make sure that my I t infrastructure is automated out from home? Can I make sure that every employee is out there in working safely and securely? You know, things like call center workers, which had to go into physical locations and being kind of, you know, just, you know, blocked off rooms to really be secure with their company's information. They had to work from home. So we had to extend business applications to people's homes in countries like, you know, well around the world. But also in India, where it was actually not, you know, not they wouldn't let They didn't have rules toe let people work from home in these areas. So then what we had to do was automate everything and make sure that we could administer. You know, all of our customers could administer these systems from home, so that puts extra stress on automation. It puts extra stress on our customers digital transformation. And it just forced them toe, you know, automate digitally transform quicker. And they had to because you couldn't just go into a server room and tweak your servers. You have to figure out how to automate all of that. >>You know, one of them >>were still there, all in that environment today. >>You know, one of the hottest trends before the pandemic was observe ability, uh, kubernetes serve micro services. So those things again. All Dev ups. And you know, if you guys got some acquisitions, you thought about 1000 eyes. Um, you got a new one you just bought recently Port shift to raise the game in security, Cuban, All these micro services, So observe, ability, superhot. But then people go work at home, as you mentioned. How do you think? Observe, What do you observing? The network is under huge pressure. I mean, it's crashing on. People zooms and WebEx is and education, huge amount of network pressure. How are people adapting to this in the upside? How are you guys looking at the what's being programmed? What are some of the things that you're seeing with use cases around this program? Ability, challenge and observe ability, challenges? It's a huge deal. >>Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, going back to Todd Nightingale, right? You know, back when we talked to Todd before he had Muraki and he had designed this simplicity, this ease of use, this cloud managed, you know, doing everything from one central place. And now he has This goes entire enterprise and cloud business. So he is now applying that at that Bigger Attn. Bigger scale. Francisco and for our customers. And he is building in the observe ability and the dashboards and the automation of the A P. I s and all of it. But when we take a look at what our customers needed is again, they had to build it all in, um, they had to build in. And what happened was how your network was doing, how secure your infrastructure was, how well you could enable people toe work from home and how well you could reach customers. All of that used to be a nightie conversation. It became a CEO and a board level conversation. So all of a sudden CEOs were actually, you know, calling on the heads of I t and the CEO and saying, You know, how is our VPN connectivity? Is everybody working from home? How many people are, you know, connected and ableto work and watch their productivity? Eso All of a sudden, all these things that were really infrastructure I t stuff became a board level conversation and you know, once again, at first everybody was panicked and just figuring out how to get people working. But now what we've seen in all of our customers is that they're now building in automation, additional transformation and these architectures, and that gives them a chance to build in that observe ability. You know, looking for those events. The dashboards, you know? So it really has been fantastic to see what our customers are doing and what our partners air doing to really rise to that next level. >>Susan, I know you gotta go, but real quick, um, describe what? Accelerating automation with definite means. >>Well, you've been fault. You know, we've been working together on definite in the vision of the infrastructure program ability and everything for quite some time. And the thing that's really happened is yes, you need to automate, but yes, it takes people to do that. And you need the right skill sets in the program ability. So a networker can't be a networker. A networker has to be a network automation developer. And so it is about people. And it is about bringing infrastructure expertise together with software expertise and letting people run. Things are definite. Community has risen to this challenge. People have jumped in. They've gotten their certifications. We have thousands of people getting certified. You know, we have you know, Cisco getting certified. We have individuals. We have partners, you know, They're just really rising to the occasion. So accelerate accelerating automation while it is about going digital. It's also about people rising to the level of, you know, being able to put infrastructure and software expertise together to enable this next chapter of business applications of cloud directed businesses and cloud growth. So it actually is about people, Justus, much as it is about automation and technology. >>And we got definite create right around the corner virtual. Unfortunately, being personal will be virtual Susie. Thank you for your time. We're gonna dig into those people challenges with Mandy and Eric. Thank you for coming on. I know you got to go, but stay with us. We're gonna dig in with Mandy and Eric. Thanks. >>Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, John. Okay. >>Mandy, you heard Susie is about people, and one of the things that's close to your heart you've been driving is a senior director of definite certifications. Um is getting people leveled up? I mean, the demand for skills cybersecurity, network program, ability, automation, network design solution, architect cloud multi cloud design thes are new skills that are needed. Can you give us the update on what you're doing to help people get into the acceleration of automation game? >>Oh, yes, absolutely. The you know what we've been seeing is a lot of those business drivers that Susie was mentioning those air. What's accelerating? A lot of the technology changes, and that's creating new job roles or new needs on existing job roles where they need new skills. We are seeing, uh, customers, partners, people in our community really starting to look at, you know, things like Dev SEC ops engineer, network Automation engineer, network automation developer, which sues you mentioned and looking at how these fit into their organization, the problems that they solve in their organization. And then how do people build the skills to be able to take on these new job roles or add that job role to their current, um, scope and broaden out and take on new challenges? >>Eric, I want to go to you for a quick second on this, um uh, piece of getting the certifications. Um, first, before you get started, describe what your role is. Director of developer advocacy, because that's always changing and evolving what's the state of it now? Because with Cove and people are working at home, they have more time to contact, switch and get some certifications and that they can code more. What's your >>What's your role? Absolutely So it's interesting. It definitely is changing a lot. A lot of our historically a lot of focus for my team has been on those outward events. So going to the definite creates the Cisco lives and helping the community connect and help share technical information with them, doing hands on workshops and really getting people into. How do you really start solving these problems? Eso that's had to pivot quite a bit. Obviously, Sisco live us. We pivoted very quickly to a virtual event when when conditions changed and we're able to actually connect, as we found out with a much larger audience. So you know, as opposed to in person where you're bound by the parameters of you know how big the convention center is. We were actually able to reach a worldwide audience with are definite day that was kind of attached onto Sisco Live, and we got great feedback from the audience that now we're actually able to get that same enablement out to so many more people that otherwise might not have been able to make it. But to your broader question of you know what my team does. So that's one piece of it is is getting that information out to the community. So as part of that, there's a lot of other things we do as well. We were always helping out build new sandboxes, new learning labs, things like that that they can come and get whenever they're looking for it out on the definite site. And then my team also looks after communities such as the Cisco Learning Network, where there's there's a huge community that has historically been there to support people working on their Cisco certifications. We've seen a huge shift now in that group that all of the people that have been there for years are now looking at the definite certifications and helping other people that are trying to get on board with program ability. They're taking a lot of those same community enablement skills and propping up community with, you know, helping answer questions, helping provide content. They move now into the definite spaces well and are helping people with that sort of certifications. So it's great seeing the community come along and really see that >>I gotta ask you on the trends around automation. What skills and what developer patterns are you seeing with automation? Are Is there anything in particular? Obviously, network automation been around for a long time. Cisco's been leader in that. But as you move up, the staff has modern applications or building. Do you see any patterns or trends around what is accelerating automation? What people learning? >>Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned observe ability was big before Cove it and we actually really saw that amplified during co vid. So a lot of people have come to us looking for insights. How can I get that better observe ability now that we needed? Well, we're virtual eso. That's actually been a huge uptick, and we've seen a lot of people that weren't necessarily out looking for things before that air. Now, figuring out how can I do this at scale? I think one good example that Susie was talking about the VPN example, and we actually had a number of SCS in the Cisco community that had customers dealing with that very thing where they very quickly had to ramp up and one in particular actually wrote a bunch of automation to go out and measure all of the different parameters that I T departments might care about about their firewalls, things that you didn't normally look at. The old days you would size your firewalls based on, you know, assuming a certain number of people working from home. And when that number went to 100% things like licenses started coming into play where they need to make sure they had the right capacity in their platforms that they weren't necessarily designed for. So one of the essays actually wrote a bunch of code to go out, use them open source, tooling to monitor and alert on these things, and then published it so the whole community code could go out and get a copy of it. Try it out in their own environment. And we saw a lot of interest around that and >>trying >>to figure out Okay, now I could take that. I can adapt into what I need to see for my observe ability. >>That's great, Mandy, I want to get your thoughts on this, too, because as automation continues to scale. Um, it's gonna be a focus. People are at home. And you guys had a lot of content online for you. Recorded every session that in the definite zone learning is going on sometimes literally and non linearly. You've got the certifications, which is great. That's key. Great success there. People are interested. But what other learnings are you seeing? What are people, um, doing? What's the top top trends? >>Yeah. So what we're seeing is like you said, people are at home, they've got time, they want toe advance, their skill set. And just like any kind of learning, people want choice. They wanna be able to choose which matches their time that's available and their learning style. So we're seeing some people who want to dive into full online study groups with mentors leading them through a study plan. On we have two new expert lead study groups like that. We're also seeing whole teams at different companies who want to do an immersive learning experience together with projects and office hours and things like that. And we have a new offer that we've been putting together for people who want those kind of team experiences called Automation Boot Camp. And then we're also seeing individual who want to be able to, you know, dive into a topic, do a hands on lab, gets, um, skills, go to the rest of the day of do their work and then come back the next day. And so we have really modular, self driven hands on learning through the Definite Fundamentals course, which is available through DEV. Net. And then there's also people who are saying, I just want to use the technology. I like Thio experiment and then go, you know, read the instructions, read the manual, do the deeper learning. And so they're They're spending a lot of time in our definite sandbox, trying out different technologies. Cisco Technologies with open source technologies, getting hands on and building things, and three areas where we're seeing a lot of interest in specific technologies. One is around SD wan. There's a huge interest in people Skilling up there because of all the reasons that we've been talking about. Security is a focus area where people are dealing with new scale, new kinds of threats, having to deal with them in new ways and then automating their data center using infrastructure as code type principles. So those were three areas where we're seeing a lot of interest and you'll be hearing more about that at definite create. >>Awesome Eric and man, if you guys can wrap up the accelerated automated with definite package and virtual event here, um, and also t up definite create because definite create has been a very kind of grassroots, organically building momentum over the years. Again, it's super important because it's now the app world coming together with networking, you know, end to end program ability. And with everything is a service that you guys were doing everything with a piece. Um Onley can imagine the enablement that's gonna enable create Can >>you hear the >>memory real quick on accelerating automation with definite and TF definite create. Mandy will start with you. >>Yes, I'll go first, and then Eric can close this out. Um, so just like we've been talking about with you at every definite event over the past years, you know, Devon, it's bringing a p I s across our whole portfolio and up and down the stack and accelerating automation with definite. Suzy mentioned the people aspect of that the people Skilling up and how that transformed team transforms teams. And I think that it's all connected in how businesses are being pushed on their transformation because of current events. That's also a great opportunity for people to advance their careers and take advantage of some of that quickly changing landscape. And so would I think about accelerating automation with definite. It's about the definite community. It's about people getting those new skills and all the creativity and problem solving that will be unleashed by that community with those new skills. >>Eric, take us home. He accelerate automation. Definite and definite create a lot of developer action going on cloud native right now, your thoughts? >>Absolutely. I I think it's exciting. I mentioned the transition to virtual for definite day this year for Cisco Live, and we're seeing we're able to leverage it even further with create this year. So whereas it used to be, you know, confined by the walls that we were within for the event. Now we're actually able to do things like we're adding a start now track for people that I want to be there. They want to be a developer. Network automation developer, for instance, We've now got a track just for them where they could get started and start learning some of the skills they'll need, even if some of the other technical sessions were a little bit deeper than what they were ready for. Eso. I love that we're able to bring that together with the experience community that we usually do from across the industry, bringing us all kinds of innovative talks, talking about ways that they're leveraging technology, leveraging the cloud to do new and interesting things to solve their business challenges. So I'm really excited to bring that whole mixed together as well as getting some of our business units together to and talk straight from their engineering departments. What are they doing? What are they seeing? What are they thinking about when they're building new AP eyes into their platforms? What are the what problems are they hoping that customers will be able to solve with them? So I think together, seeing all of that and then bringing the community together from all of our usual channels. So, like I said, Cisco Learning Network, we've got a ton of community coming together, sharing their ideas and helping each other grow those skills. I see nothing but acceleration ahead of us for automation. >>Awesome. Thanks so much. God, man, can >>I add one had >>one more thing. >>Yeah, I was just going to say the other really exciting thing about create this year with the virtual nature of it is that it's happening in three regions. And, you know, we're so excited to see the people joining from all the different regions. And, uh, content and speakers and the region stepping upto have things personalized to their area to their community. And so that's a whole new experience for definite create that's going to be fantastic this year. >>You know, that's what God is going to close out and just put the final bow on that by saying that you guys have always been successful with great content focused on the people in the community. I think now, during with this virtual definite virtual definite create virtual the cube virtual, I think we're learning new things. People working in teams and groups on sharing content. We're gonna learn new things. We're gonna try new things, and ultimately people will rise up and will be resilient. I think when you have this kind of opportunity, it's really fun. And whoa, we'll ride the wave with you guys. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on. The Cuban talk about your awesome accelerate automation and definitely looking forward to it. Thank you. >>Thank you so much. >>Happy to be here. >>Okay, I'm John for the Cube. Virtual here in Palo Alto studios doing the remote content amendment Virtual until we're face to face. Thank you so much for watching. And we'll see you at definite create. Thanks for watching.

>> from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem Barker's >> We'll get back to the Cube. We are live at Cisco Live in San Diego. Study. San Diego. Lisa Martin with David Lantana and David Ayer. Super geeking out here, Susie, we is with us back with us. SPP in CTO of depth that Suzy Welcome back. Thank you. It's great to be back. So this event is massive. Cisco's been doing customer and partner events for 30 years now. What started as networkers? We? No, no, it's just alive. Something else you might not know that's also 30 years old. Dizzy. The movie, The Field of dreams. >> Wow, uh, kind of feels like the field does kind of feel like that that are one >> years yes, on ly five years. This has been so influential in Cisco's transition and transformation. You've got nearly 600,000 members in this community. Definite zone. It's jam packed yesterday today. Expect tomorrow as well? Yes, and you guys made simple, really exciting announcements. Yes, we didn't tell us >> about it, so it's fantastic. >> So basically what happens is the network has gotten very powerful. It has gotten very capable. You know, you can do intelligence machine learning you Khun Dio Intent based networking. So instead of the network just being a pipe, you can actually now use it to connect users devices applications use policy to make sure they're all connected securely. There's all sorts of new things that you could do. But what happens is, while there's all that new capability, it's in order to take advantage of it. It takes more than just providing new products and new technology. So our announcements are basically in two areas and we call it. It's like unleashing the capabilities of the new network and by doing it in to a So won is by bringing software practices to networking. So now that it really is a software based, programmable network with all of these capabilities, we wantto make sure that practice of software comes into a networking, and then the other is in the area of bringing software skills to networking because you need the right skills to be able to also take advantage of that. So if I just jump right into it, so the 1st 1 in terms of bringing software practices to networking. We've announce something that we call definite automation exchange. And so what happens is, you know, of course, our whole community builds networks. And as businesses have grown, their networks have grown right and they've grown and grown business has grown growing, grown right, and then it's become hardest, become unmanageable. So while you say there's all these great new technologies, but these things have grown in their way, so our customers biggest problem is actually network automation like How do I take my network? How do I bring automation to it? There's all the promise of it and definite automation. Exchange is built to basically help our community work towards network automation, so it's a community based developer center. What we say is that we're helping people walk, run and fly with network automation by walking. We're saying, OK, there's all these cool things you could do, but let's take it in three steps like first of all is let's walk. So first, just do a read only thing like get visibility, get insights from your network, and you can be really smart about it because you can use a lot of intelligence predictive modeling. You can figure out what's going on. So that alone is super valuable. >> Get the data. >> Get the data I learn on DH. Then next is an Okay, I'm ready to take action. Like so. Now I've learned I'm ready to take action, apply a network policy, apply a security policy, put controls into your network. That's you know. So, uh, walk, run, And then when you're ready to fly is when you're saying okay, I'm going to get into the full dev ops soup with my network. I'm going to be gathering the insights. I'm going to be pushing in control. I'm now optimizing managing my network as I go. So that's the whole slice it. So the wing fact, we want to go to them the walk, run, fly. >> And if I understand from reading your blood, Great block, by the way, >> Thank you. >> A lot of executives, right? Blog's and it's kind of short of yours is really substantively like, Wow, that was >> really something on. That's No, >> But if I understood a truck that you're gonna prime Sisko was gonna prime the pump A cz? Well, yeah, with a lot of ideas and code on DH. Yes, and then engineers can share. There's if they so choose. >> Exactly. So the key part of automation exchange beyond helping people take thes areas. The question is, how are we going to help them? Right? So what happens is what we've been doing with Definitive. We've been helping people learned to code, you know, in terms of networkers, we've been helping bring software developers into the community. We've been helping them learn to use a pea eye's all the good stuff a developer a good developer program should do. But what are networkers have said is I need help solving use cases. I need help solving the problems that I'm trying to solve, like how to get telemetry and monetary, how to get telemetry and insights from my network. How do I offer a self serve network service out to my, you know, customers line of business developers, you know, howto I automate it scale. And so what happens is there's a you know there's an opportunity or a gap between the products and AP eyes themselves and then solving these use cases so are now opening up a code repository, Definite Automation exchange, where the community can develop software that actually solves those use cases. Francisco is going to curate it. It's just going to be code on Get Hub. We'll make sure that it has the right, you know, licenses that, you know, we do some tests and it's working well with the FBI's, and then we're hoping it's going to become. We're hoping, you know, kind of the industries leading network automation code repository to solve these problems. >> Well, it's this key because big challenge that customers tell us that they have with automation is they got all these bespoke tools. None of them work together. So do you think something like this exchange can help solve that problem? >> It can. I believe it can. So the reason being is that you know, there are tools that people use and everybody's environments a little different. So some might want Teo integrate in and use answerable terra form, you know, tools like that. And so then you need code that'll help integrate into that. Other people are using service now for tickets. So if something happens, integrate into that people are using different types of devices, hopefully mostly Cisco, but they may be other using others as well way can extend code that goes into that. So it really helps to go in different areas. And what's kind of cool is that our there's an amount of code that where people have the same problems, you know, you know, you start doing something. Everyone has to make the first few kind of same things in software. Let's get that into exchange. And so let's share that there's places where partners are gonna want to differentiate. Keep that to yourselves like use that as your differentiated offer on DH. Then there's areas where people want to solve in communities of interest. So we have way have someone who does networking, and he wants to do automation. He does it for power management in the utilities industry. So he wants a community that'll help write code that'll help for that area, you know, So people have different interests, and, you know, we're hoping to help facilitate that. Because Sisko actually has a great community way, have a great community that we've been building over the last 30 years there the network experts there solving the real problems around the world. They work for partners, they work for customers, and we're hoping that this will be a tool to get them to band together and contribute in a software kind of way. >> So is the community begins to understand never automation and elect your pathway of of walk, run fly swatter. Soothe projected business outcomes that that any industry, whether it's utilities or financial services, will be able to glean from network automation. I can imagine how expensive from topics perspective it is all this manual network management. So what? Oh, that's some of the things that you projecting the future that businesses who adopt this eventually are going to be able to re >> Absolutely, I mean, just, you know, very simple. Well, so many, so many things. So, uh, in the in the case of what's a manufacturing, because you're talking about different industries? So there's a whole opportunity of connected manufacturing, right? So how do I get all of those processes connected, digitized and write. Now write things air being pretty much run in their way. But if you can really connect them in, digitize them. Then you can start to glean business insights from them. Right? Should I speed up? How's my supply chain doing where my parts Where's my inventory? Everything. You get all of that connected. That is like a huge business implications on what you can do. >> You have a kitchen, get start getting the fly will effect around all that data. Akeley. So I've always been fascinated that you see definite zone and there's these engineers ccs saying Okay, I want to learn more. I want to learn how to code numbers keep growing and growing and growing. And so you've got new certifications. Now that you're >> out of that was, >> this's huge. You need to talk about that, >> Yes, so that, you >> know, kind of the second part of our thing is like how we're bringing software skills to networking. So to get you know, the most of all this opportunity, you do need software skills. And of course, that's what Definite was originally founded on is really helping people to build those skills. But we've kind of graduated to the next level because we've teamed up with the Learning and Cisco team, which creates Cisco Start ification program. Cisco has, you know, an amazing certification program. So the C C. A is the gold standard and certifications and you know networkers around the world have that C C I status partners have built up. They pay people for that. You know any customer who's deploying now, which they will hire the CCS. So that was founded in 1993. The first see CIA, and that program in the next 26 years has grown to what it is. And what we've done is we've teamed up with them to now add a definite certification. So we're bringing in software skills along with the networking skills so that we have the Cisco certifications, the Cisco definite certifications sitting side by side and you know we believe it. You know, right now the people who you've seen in the definite Zone are the ones who know what's important. They come in there doing it. But they said, I want credit for what I'm doing. Like I get credit, I get a raise, I get bonuses. My job level depends on my networking sort of occasions. I'm doing this on my nights and weekends, but I know it's important. And now, by bringing this into the program, my company can recognise this. I'm recognized as a professional for my skills. It helps in all sorts of ways. >> So go ahead. Please >> think this just sounds way more to me than the next step. In Definite. It sounds like it's a revolution. >> It's a revolution. >> First addition in 26 years, that's bay >> now. I mean, there have been changes in the program, but it's the biggest change in those 26 years. Absolutely. And you know, like we'll see what what happens. But I think it is, Ah, step change in a revolution for the industry because we're recognizing that networking skills are important and software skills are important and critical. And if you want to build a team that can compete, that can really help your companies succeed, you're gonna want both of these skills together in your organization. And I believe that that's goingto help accelerate the industry, because then they can use all of these tools, right? So right now on it department can either hold the company down or accelerate a company to success because the question is, how quickly can you help someone adopt cloud? How can they do multi cloud? How convey innovative software speeds? And now we're here, hopefully catalyzing the network industry to be ableto work at that speed. >> I was joking. You wanna be the department of No or the Department of Go? Let's go. So is being a C C. A prerequisite to the definite certificate is not okay, so is not linear. So you're getting CC eyes obviously lining up to get certified to see him here So you could get kids out of college saying, Okay, I want in. >> Absolutely. And so the way that it works is that, um so actually you could. So what we have with the Cisco certifications for both the definite as well as the original Cisco started Take bath is that there's an associate level, which means you have about a years working experience. You know enough. So see CNN, Cisco Certified Network associate. They know enough about networking so that they can learn the fundamentals of networking and then be effective as part of a team that runs networks. So that's what that certification does for you. Way also now have a definite associate, which is ensuring that you have the software skills that you can also enter a team that's writing software applications or doing automated work flows for a network. And we have to know that all developers are not created equally. So just cause you wrote a mobile app doesn't mean that you can write software for, you know, running operational network. So the definite association is more like you need to be able to securely use AP eyes, right? So there's a lot of things that are within that. And then we have the professional in the expert levels. Um, and we have it on both sides now. Originally, way were thinking that there's the network engineer path. We're going to sprinkle a little software in there, and we'll have the definite path for a software developer, and it would be its own path. But we got feedback as we started presenting to our partners into our customers. And then they're like, No, this cannot be separate people. It's like it needs to come together. And so then we changed our how we thought about it, and we said that there's a set of engineering certifications and there's a set of software certifications. Anybody can get what they want, and you can start to combine them in very interesting ways. >> I could put together my own career, Mosaic. >> Absolutely so if you said, You know what? I am going to be that tick ass networker. And if we have the unicorn of like and I'm goingto you know over time, we're going to offer definite expert in the future. I said, I'm going to be a CC expert in the future. Be a definite expert. That's awesome. But we're not forcing folks to do it, because maybe you're going to be a CC. I get a definite associates so that you can speak the language of software and know what it does. But then you'll sit alongside a developer, and you guys will be able to speak the same language together. And we also make sure that our developers learn a bit about networking. So if you look at that associate, it's kind of 80 20 networking software, the other one's 80 20 software and networking so that they can actually work and talk to each other. >> So looking at these big waves that were writing right now and compute in network with G WiFi six s edge a prize anywhere, how is definite and the certification that you've just unleashed into the world? How is it going to enable not just the community members. Yes, who helped accelerate Companies take advantage of some of these big ways. But how is it going? Helps drive Cisco's evolution? >> And so and you bring up a great distinction, which is as we talk about a new set of applications. And we talked about this that create a definite create when you're there. Is that APP developers? If they understand the capabilities of the network, they can actually write an entirely new set of applications. Because you know, five g y fi six are better. If you understand EJ computing in the opportunity there, you know a networker will install a network that can host apse that makes edge computing riel. So there's another reason for the app developer a community to come together with the networkers. So when we talk about now, how does this help? Cisco is Well, first of all, it takes all of the networkers that are out there, and it insures that they're getting to that next level so that you're really fully using those capabilities and that worked, which can then accelerate business, you know. So it really is. The new capabilities are entirely different. Wayto look at networking that really do Tie and Dr Business On the other is the other part we're talking about is those APP developers that come in and write great applications can come in and now really be connected and actually use that whole network infrastructure and all its capabilities. So that really ties us to more kind of, you know, instead of a networker going in instead of going in and selling network kit and then figuring out the line of business things separately, you Khun, bring those applications into our ecosystem and into our offerings. So it's an integrated offering like here's a connected manufacturing offering that includes what you need to connect as well a CZ third party applications that are great for the manufacturing industry. And now you're looking at selling that whole solution >> and applications that we haven't even thought of a member in Barcelona walking into the i o. T Zone and seeing some programmable device from a police car on a camera. And, yes, some of these guys could just they're going to create things that we definite create, haven't even conceived, so you're creating sort of this new role. To me, it's like D B A You know, CC, it's now this new definite creator in a role that is going to have a lot of influence in the organization because they're driving value right there, going toe, bring people with them. People going to say, Oh, I want that. So now you think you're going to stand in Barcelona? The number of people that you've trained, I don't know, make many tens of thousands. I mean, where we have today with >> hundreds of thousands, wait half 1,000,000 5 100,000 Last year were at six >> 100,000. This was going 100,000 organic new members over the last year. So >> people here over half 1,000,000 now. >> Yeah. Yeah. So unbelievable. Yep, definitely So I know it's great. And just people are interested, right? So people are interested. People are learning, you know? And that's what makes it, you know, interesting to me is people are finding value in it, and they're coming. So s O. I think that, you know, kind of definite in the last five years has been kind of like an experiment, right? So it's just like, is the industry ready? Like do networkers really want to learn about software. What air? That we've been kind of prime ing it. And, you know, by now getting to this next level, you know, just the certifications. What we have learned from all of that is that it's really and that, you know, with the new capabilities in the network, we can really take our community and our bring new people into our community to make that opportunity really into Dr Business from the network. >> Everybody wants the code >> had they dio and some >> people >> are scared. Actually, some people are very scared. >> You mean intimidated, >> intimidated, intimidated. Yes. So there's the set of people who've come in early, right? And they're the ones who you've seen in the definite Zone. But everybody, of course, they start out scared. But then right after they get over that fear, they realize this really is a new future. And so then they start jumping in, and so it's both beer and then opportunity. >> Then they're on strike. That's what it's all about, Yang. And absolutely, I could do this for my business and >> absolutely, I would love to know the end that near future, how many different products and services and Maybe even companies have been created from the definite community for springing all these different Pittsburgh folks together. Imagine the impact >> it is. I mean, like, one really small things. You've been with us at our little definite create conference is we have something there that's called Camp Create, which is where they spend a week hacking, right? So and this It's kind of sometimes our most serious attendees because they're choosing Teo Code for the weak is what you know as well as to attend way. Didn't really add it all up yet. But what we found is there's about 25 to 30 people who attend. Met a bunch of them got promoted in that year. Wow. So in different ways, you know, not in ways that are necessarily connected but in their own ways, like in their company. This person got promoted to this to this one area. This other person, one person was a contractor. They got converted to a, you know, full time employee. So you know, we have to go and do the math on it. But what's amazing is that you know it just you know that bring that fills our hearts. >> It's organic too. Well, Susie, we Thank you so much for joining David. Me on the clean. You're going back with me tomorrow. And some guests. I'm looking forward to that. Excellent. Yes, Absolutely. More, More great stars. >> Your duel Co hosting a >> way. I didn't know that. No way. But I'll turn. I'll be the host is Well, I try something new. Way we're >> gonna have fun. I am looking forward to it. Thank you >> so much. And thank you for being with us in our whole vision of definite from the beginning. So thank you. >> It's been awesome. All right. We want to thank you for watching the Cube for David. Dante. I'm Lisa Martin. We will catch you right back with our last guest from Cisco Live in San Diego.

>> live from Mountain View, California. It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi. Welcome to the Qi of Lisa Martin. John Barrier. Day two of our coverage on the Cube. Cisco Definite create twenty nineteen. Very excited to welcome to the Cube, one of this year's definite creator awards way. Have Andhra Alert Digital automation practice manager from Dimension Data under It's wonderful to have you join us. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> So, congratulations. This is breaking news for everybody, including you. You had just won the Definite Creator Award. Tell us about now you're feeling since you just got that news. >> Well, in the same time, I feel excited. I feel honored and I feel so humble. It's a bigger word to win. And I'm very proud that I can bring this. There's a way back home to my my company. >> Did they tell you this is only the second year that they've given out these awards? Did it tell you some of the criteria? Because obviously you were selected and were surprised. Just learned up today. Pretty cool surprise to happen. Did they give you in context about who they're looking for you, Like your activity in the definite community and things like that. It's a little bit about that >> exactly. So they're looking for the people who are having a great impact and more great advocates of definite outside of the Siskel world. So when they're going to clients and where they're going to the developer community in the different countries so they're looking for advocates, they're also looking for people who are great contributors to the network. So if you have some very nice code examples and you're posting them on the Codex and so they had a couple of pretty is that they're following. >> And how long have you been an active member of the definite community? >> I'm quite the veteran. I've been there since the very beginning of the definite. So I before even the release, I already got reviewed the information that something in this direction we'LL come. And then I was there from the very beginning, The journey continued with being there at the first definite express event being now, for example, here definite create a last year, I've organized the first different express event at the partner so together in my company with the mission. Later, we're organized the first definite expressive end in the front foot where we have invited clients but also a lot of people from our engineering teams. So quite the fantastic journeys. And now with with definite and I'm happy >> that time there since so early what's been the >> reaction so far too definite growth and change? What's the biggest surprise or notable change with definite community? >> There are a couple of things were changing. So inside the company, for example, with the adoption of definite and with people going very often on definitely have seen a different style of learning. So engineers now have a different way of how do I approach learning? Where do I go if I need to find something and another change is related to how people interact with each other? Because, yeah, you know, like the network engineer was there, he was doing very cool. His staff, maybe sometimes he was also sharing, but definite the entire opened. This is now standard, so people are sharing between them. Colleagues are also taking on in even internal social media like yammer and the posting. Hey, look, I've done this cool stuff and it's only like a lot of it. It's also thanks to definite, because it brought a little bit a new style of things. >> And they bring definite create, which is gonna cloud native kind of mindset. How has that gone over with network engineers being coding? Python machine learning, Iraqi new things are coming. >> So they're all on the transformation path, and our company's doing a lot of activities in this direction. We've had, For example, last year, our, um Wei have ah, very good advocate for coding on the mission leader. His name is Anthony Shaw. He had last year an entire initiative running learned to code on. So we had colleagues from all over the company independently of the department you work from, which started to code, right? So we had way had them learning how to code. And then this is basically the very bay a fundament on you can refuse. Start afterwards with learning pets in the definite. So it's quite a transformation. And I would say that it's a nice joining Toby. And >> how have you guys? The gentleman that you just mentioned on yourself is, as you described a veteran of the definite community. How have you guys may be influenced to mention data to really fully embrace Death Net and the path >> I think that are, too, too big ways in which this has been done. So on one hand, Anthony show with his very successful initiative, this has brought the transformation from the learning side. And on the other hand, by starting to have skills, we have brought out the news through our clients. And so this has impacted the business. And when the business is impacting and when you show a business value by using automation by using the net or program ability, then the entire company is aware. And this is how afterwards way started to okay. We really embraced >> the challenge, really sort of changing the culture of dimension data in a good way. >> Yes, I wouldn't say it's It's totally changing, but we see that way are very easily adapting to the new way. Talk about >> the automation peace. What do you do in your day to day job? Take us through a day in the life of what you're doing with the cool things you do. Struggles, challenges, opportunities. What's the fun stuff? What's the not so fun stuff that software's automating away. >> Okay, very nice. So on one hand, on the day to day basis, we analyzed with our clients what they're doing, and we are coming with suggestions where they could be faster. And also we're coming with suggestions where they could reduce errors and someone. So basically, we go. We talkto our clients. We're coming back with the problems they have with prepare for them a solution, then afterwards. The solution. It's mainly based on using AP eyes. Scrapie eyes are also amongst our favorite. Once we are presenting the solution than the clients are saying, Yes, it's something I would like to have in my network or no, it's something I don't want. Then, once the clients are happy with the solution that we're proposing them, then we start developing were developing in the Angel methodology, so very close touch with the client failed fast and improved and have a very inter way of doing things afterwards. Once the project is done, you know, we continue improving what we have with the customer with the clients and continuing are joining from there. This is part of what a day in a software engineering department looks like or like in a native ox engineering department looks on top of this. We need all the time to take care of best practices. How do we called? We need to take care of being security compliance, like working in Europe. You know, we have a lot of rules regulations that we need to respect, and we are of some of these rules and tradition. We have very proud that they are there and they're there to protect us and to protect the data which somethings belongs to us. So this is also a topic that way are working on day today. Afterwards were also working a lot and improving our skills. We're having a weekly making learn, for example, where someone is waiting to take someone else's. Presenting the technical topic. So it's it's an entire process and these are all the people that were running on the day today. >> You know, one of the big trends wass going back ten years, Dev Ups Infrastructure is code Great great great trend now Net Dev ups you mentioned that term is about Dev ops applied networking. That's a big theme of definite definite creators. Programmable networks. What does that mean to you? People say Net devil. >> It means a lot. It's very close to my heart. It's also the topic of my presentation later. Today. I have a speaker's not a tech talk in another works A lot of people might think. OK, it's just network continuous. We're writing something. One script in the network. Well, it's not just that. It's a lot of components. It's also about the culture. It's about the people. It's about the process. You're involving. It's about what tools you're using me. The entire net evolves is really close to my heart because it's an entire mindset, which is which needs >> to learn about it. What they where should they go to learn about? Net Dev ops. Sorry, Where should people go to learn about Do Net? De Bob's what it is. >> It's a very, very good entry point. It's the definite right. You have there a lot off learning labs you have the sandbox is yours. Have tracks can go from there and of course you can. You go online, you have a lot of courses. You have a lot of bloggers. You have a lot of you for answers. Were posting about what's what's going on and what you should adapt in your network. Uh, then, yes, you can also use some books. There are also some nice books there, of course, and tow the attention because by the time a book is released, maybe that information could be different. Created, you know, like it runs quite fast. Definitely, definitely. One of the sexual >> organ is your personal question. What's the coolest thing that's going on here? A definite create or within the industry that you're excited about? >> Um, machine learning and artificial intelligence is definitely something that I want Teo to keep an eye on it where I'm running a couple of small tests. It will definitely change the way we see the world. And it'LL also define what our kids will further learn because now you see, like we, we are used to a certain way of learning, which is their since maybe two hundred years, this will have, like motion learning and artificial intelligence. We have such a big impact on everything with you that it will maybe be overwhelming. So it's a very interesting point that I'm following here. The difference Creator. Very nice talks, >> and you've got to get the data to get the machine learning any data? Murat, He's got great wireless WiFi sixes here. I ot looking good. A lot of activity. >> Yes, it is indeed a lot of activity, and I'd like to believe that data is somehow. Then you go though the new petroleo s o having a handle, the data and something that valuable indeed. >> How you found if we look at you know that the participants that air here, we've got, you know, developers, infrastructure, folks who were moving towards adopting De Bob's kind of connecting them with the app developers. How have you seen people change? Job roles change as, uh, these other folks are adopting develops. Especially now that you're talking about bringing in the network. That's how Have you seen roles change and how has your job in particular changed and advance and evolved with practice of Net Dev >> ops. So I was starting the first part of your question. Rolls have indeed changed a lot. And this also I can see in the moment when we try to recruit because there is no profile out there that say okay, I want to recruit another bobs. You will not find on the market native ops of already built as a professor, you need thio recruit people when you see the potential and try to bring thiss new colleagues into the Net evolves journey. So this is one part on how Rosa revolving and then very direct to myself on my career has evolved. I think it's very linked to how the entire definite community has evolved. I've started five years ago the mission it and it was my first. A big job in Germany on my career has evolved in a very rapid way. So I went from technology associate system Engineer is an engineer leading a team off softer with leather box engineers. And now I'm since a couple of weeks speaking for the Europe region, a dimension data to advocate and to create a strategy for Ned a box a za practice. >> So what would you recommend to the younger generation gets your saying that we can't hire for someone that has no develops experience. What are some of the skills, maybe even some of the softer skills, like being a good collaborator, being a good communicator, that you would recommend that the younger generation really fine tune in addition to their technology expertise that you think this is going to make someone really gets this this role and can help really transform it. >> So I think outside of all the technical skills so they can acquire in terms of OK, programming, networking and someone, there are two big soft skills that they should have. And in my opinion, it's something very important, something I'm looking at, every person I'm interviewing, thiss to our curiosity. You need to be curious about what's out there. If you're not serious, you cannot evolve. And the second one is learning ability. Even if you don't know something, you still you say Okay, I don't know when, but I will Girl go and learn about it, you know, like wear learning every day, something like what was there five years ago and what is there to years ago? It's different to what we have now. So learn ability and curious. It's yours, too. Two main topics for me >> Fantastic. Well, under again, Congratulations on winning. The definite Freedom Warrior is here twenty nineteen. It's been a pleasure talking to you, well, producing more great things that you do in the definite community in the next year. Thank you very much. Thanks for having our pleasure for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching us live on the cubes. Saturday of coverage. Francisco Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Cisco >> Hi, Lisa Martin With the Cube. We're live at the Computer History Museum for Cisco. Definite Create twenty nineteen John for years my co host, and we're pleased to welcome back to the Cube. Mandy Whaley, senior director of developer experience for Definite Mandy. This event is bursting at the seams. This is the third definite create, but you've been involved for the last five years or so from the beginning, when this was really groundswell talk. Before we're going to talk about a history of Devon, tell our audience what definite is. What definite create is as well, >> Absolutely definite is Cisco's developer community so anywhere that Cisco has a P iis rst case anywhere that people can build on top of our platforms. Definite is the community that enables those developers. So we do. You know a lot of connecting of people within the community way also do a lot of developer enablement Sample code Documentation Blog's Learning Resource is in person workshops, online workshops. I lead our developer experienced team, which is our developer advocates who are you know being the voice of developer, helping the developers get inspired in buildings also are definite. Sandbox teams hosted labs. If you want to use some networking FBI's you may not have extra network playing around that you can program against an experiment. So we offer reserved hosted labs that anyone can use free by becoming a definite remember and then the other part is our our developer content and support. So really getting the information out there and supporting the developers so definite is our community that enables everyone to build on top of Cisco. >> And this community is now sorry, John. We're both very excited, Assistant Suzy was announcing this morning over five hundred eighty five thousand members strong and the energy and the excitement in the room this morning with the Kino people are jumping at the bid. When you guys talked about WiFi six, I loved the examples that you gave this community is it is engaged. That is one of >> the things that's really exciting. Teo, about working with the definite community is that I feel like the energy that we put in, we get back multiple fold from the community, right, and it's great to see people who started with us maybe five years ago who have, you know, made their first AP I call started down this path, and now they're building full applications and they're here sharing that information by presenting with the community and giving back and that excitement that engagement is really one of the funnest parts of my job. >> Man, you talk about the evolution of definite create definite, pretty good background on that. Tell the story. I know I've been there with you guys since the beginning of the Cube. I know little about, but I want you to tell the story because it was a genesis that came out of what you guys we're seeing in the definite community where Cloud was really becoming part of it. Tell the where the definite created portion came on. And what it means for the definite community and developers at large. >> Yes, absolutely. So I started working with Emmet before Devon. It had a name so before it was actually definite. That was five years ago and way started building the community. We have a developer event within Sisqo live. So we have the definite zone, and it's we offer a lot of our constant and classes and workshops. Their way started getting requests from that audience, saying WAY would like a smaller events with more ability, tohave, you know, deeper conversations more, one on one and just focused on the developer community. And this was when multi Cloud was really starting to become a big piece of the Cisco strategy. Are developers were trying to figure out howto work in that space. Cloud native was taking King off, and that was the first definite create on, which was three years ago. It was a very small venue in San Francisco, and it was our very closest and, you know, deepest engage set of members that came to that first year and then. But we had such great engagement. Some of that energy that you mentioned and everyone who helped build it towards the second year, which we had last year at the Computer History Museum, says same same than you. And what special, definite create. As we really try to get the two parts of our definite community together, the application developers and our infrastructure automation Dev ops teams right, and we try to bring them together. This one event where they can really exchange ideas, you know, get to be talking the same language. This morning we had conversations around WiFi six from the application Developer side Like what does that enable for the application developers and new things you could build? And then, you know, how is that also interesting? Teo, the networking site >> of any demos, are a big part of it. You got the hack a thon camp. Get the camp experience. You can create great tools, but the the events, not your classic event. It's not like that's Get the numbers up. Let's get tennis. Let's make some money. It's not about that vibe. This is a different vibe. It's more of let's make it intimate, somewhat structured, but disorganized enough to be collaborative. >> Yes, it's definitely collaborative, and it's definitely a community focused event over. I think over seventy five percent of the content this year came from the community, so they're here giving back and presenting their workshops. It's also very hands on. Hands on is actually kind of a core definite value. We, like Teo, always give people the ability Teo code something. Try something, build something So you mentioned can't create that is our it's >> it's We call it a build a thon because it's a little more structure >> than a free form hackathon. We start with some use cases. We make the technology available, and they actually started yesterday before the conference even began. Those teams started building solutions, and they'LL be presenting them on Thursday and then >> in the >> conference. We have hands on workshops in small groups with eight people, so you can really, you know, take the time to actually get in, run the code, do the work, ask questions right to the presenter on. And we really want that collaborative. You know, sharing ideas feels very intentional part of building this conference. >> So I'd love to ask you some probing questions around the future of where you see this going because you have the key ingredients are coming together. You mentioned them, so scaling this up it's going to be a challenge because you have definite. You have Definite Zone and Sisqo live, which is the Cisco proper. Then you kind of have this elite community as my words. I guess it's, you know, the best of the best, but it's really a cross section of unique profile of persona is the intention to have these guys then go back to their communities are within the communities. Is that the scale point? Because how do you run these intimate events right and not lose the spirit of the ethos. >> So that's something we're, you know, putting specific thought into because we do want to keep the spirit. We've actually heard that from some of our, you know, kind of core community members that they really want to keep that aspect. So couple of things that we are planning tto help with that one is you may have seen this morning we gave the definite Creator awards. So those air awards for people who contribute to the community and a lot of those are people who have come and learn skills, taken aback to their organizations and been able to scale that out to their organizations. That's something that we're really actively working with people to do and do that in a very organic and community lead way. Um, the other thing that we have been working with is a program called Definite Express. So this is actually where we take a small part of our definite content. We kind of package it up and make it available for anyone to run in their region. Jin so they can have it. You know, in a different country they can have some of the same feeling that we have here some of these same workshops we've had those in. It was about two hundred fifty of those events in forty nine countries. >> So wait, man kind of thing. Yes, it's a physical events. It's not just sass on site services. >> That's right. >> Portable portal >> event and they do workshops just like they are here way. Inject some of the fun, same fun kind of activities. And then we provide all the infrastructure. There are sandbox, >> you hologram in there. I mean, you're so popular you can't attend all of them. >> No, I cannot. >> But I love >> to see on Twitter you can look up definite express and see one's happening, you know, all over the world at the same time, which is really fun. >> And how did those folks that are doing these definite expressed events How are they able to collaborate with you guys provide feedback from what they're experiencing in the field to help create Maur no pun intended helped create more. Definitely more, exactly more opportunities, you know, and really help you guys with this larger event so that they feel like they were in this community. And five hundred eighty five thousand. There's only about four hundred here that can fit in Russian. What's that somebody else? It's like So one of the things >> we do is while we're here at definite create, we do live stream a lot of the content. So it was really fun today. When we finished the keynote, I heard from some people that told me I was in the keynote. I was watching and I started texting my friends. Hey, you got to get on the live stream And that's a great thing to hear from the community because you're giving away for this people to join in. We also have on definite our community chat room. It's on every page, chat with us definite. It gets you right into a room with the developer advocates on our team and other community members, and we see the community there, you know, answering each other's questions, giving us feedback, letting us know what they need to move ahead in their careers and their projects. So that community chat room is really key. >> Give some highlights on what change since just go live Barcelona. What? Some of the important notable successes and work areas that you guys are doing a definite and definite create. >> Right. So we, as we mentioned in the Kino, our community growth, we've reached five hundred eighty five thousand. So that registered Dove nut members, that is, it's great to see that growing. And then we also see those members you know, growing their engagement with them, not going deeper into the material, building, more content, taking it back to their organizations and things like that. Right now we are building up to Cisco Live Us, which is coming up in San Diego in June, will have our full definite zone there. So a lot of exciting activities that were planning for their We hope everybody can come and see us there, and then another thing is, could exchange. So could exchange. We actually announced it a definite create last year and launched it a little bit after definite create code exchanges the place for the community to share their projects so they can anything that is open source. They can share it by sending us there. Have link way curate that end Tio Francisco relevant sort of catalog. If you're looking for a sample to use DNA center and you want to see it in Python, you Khun, go search for exactly that. Get back some projects that the community have submitted. So we're excited to announce this week that we've reached over four hundred projects in code exchange of those curated, you know, projects that have gone to the process and been posted there. That was a really exciting milestone, looking back to create from LA >> So it's working. Yeah. So what's the vibe in? Certainly Cisco. I know Suzy has and Team have been kind of getting a lot of press and praise press externally, praise internally it Cisco, as the big battleship of Cisco, kind of gets on that cloud wave coming multi cloud hot area. >> It is so one of the things that is really exciting as we are seeing a p, I be available across our whole portfolio. So in every area that Cisco has products and up and down the stack at the device layer at the controller layer at the cloud layer. So that's very exciting from a definite perspective, because it gives us more for our community to work with more opportunity for developers. And that changes Ciscos very palpable. It's very exciting. And we're, you know, bringing the definite community into that as much as >> it's from creativity to we saw the demo for a fish about the virtual realities cable first peek in Barcelona. But here, amplifying that with with five six to you could just with virtual reality look at a devices. They see all the staff see with network coverage. Yeah, WeII to do work. >> Yeah, exactly. And >> me, that demo is a great you know, example of this applications meaning infrastructure message, which is really what definite create is about. We wrote an augmented reality application running on a mobile device, but you can check literally seeing the signal strength from all your access points on. So that's just a great example of those two things coming together. >> Speaking of coming together, one of the things that you touched on this a minute ago. But what in the keynote this morning, when I was looking at in the Mirror Rocky demo of the other things that you guys were doing and the evolution of Cisco. I just thought, What CART horse which ones, which was It has definite been really kind of fueling Cisco's evolution. Looking at all of the available, as you mentioned across the product portfolio has been around a long time. Is it is it fair to say that definite has kind of been a fuel for that? And Cisco's going Wow, we've got this phenomenal community were evolving because our customers are we need Teo. Yeah, I think it is. It is very much >> hand in hand. We worked really closely with our product teams and we worked hard to be that voice of the developer with our product teams and Cisco. And it's been a journey that started, you know, five years ago where we knew that the guys were going to come, we knew that there would be a prize across the portfolio and within definite. We really believed in that and are definite community believed in it. And you know, we've been building it very step wise and very intentionally since then. So it's really been a great partnership and a really exciting time to be it Cisco and being a part of that transition. >> Well, I just signed up to chat with you guys since you brought it up earlier. Developer dot cisco dot com That little chat with us on every page signing I signed with my get hub handles >> you can log in with. You're having >> your chair stealing the code and check it into the >> codex scene. >> We're gonna blow something for one. So many exciting has been great to watch. You guys, you got the Moroccan green jacket off. >> It's very Rocky demo today. >> Meraki has been a big part of definite success, and within the community's been the reaction's been very positive. It's not in the classic portfolio of collaboration. It's really going to a different What is muraki mean for the development? What? What has it done? What has enabled Why is it important? >> Yeah, so, um, a Rocky has been great because it's one. As Todd mentioned today, they really have this mission of simplifying their experience, and they've done that in there. You I and they've brought that to their developer experience as well, which is really exciting for me. Rocky is Cloud Managed Network Club managed WiFi, and then they have a very happy I'd driven approach where you can automate almost everything you could do through the eyes. And then there's additional services that you could get from Iraqi, like indoor location data and things like that. So it really opens up opportunities for both of our parts of our definite audience application developers who might be writing an indoor location based application or doing something with the cameras that we saw today on DH, then the infrastructure automation side who can very, very efficiently, you know, manage and deploy their networks. >> It's nice connective tissue for the developers kind of gives you best table two worlds, wireless on the front end, back and network connections. So it really becomes a big part than seems like >> it is. It is. And that's another reason why we were so excited about the new MURAKI developer hub that Todd adults today on Definite because it really is a place where we can show that connective aspect of it. I have all the code and use cases that really connects this to audience. >> We'LL talk will be very excited to know that some of your community members actually have Iraqi devices at their house. They way, they're running their cameras at their homes and everything's >> that's right. >> So being I think it's on the Web, one of the, if not the on ly conference community that brings together the APP developers, those girls and guys thie infrastructure, folks, What's one of your favorite stories that really shows thes two worlds coming together, understanding each other, communicating anything that really sticks out of the last few years for you? Gosh, there's >> many and a lot of them are just hallway conversations that I might stop by and hear people connecting and kind of learning about. You know what each person works on and learning to kind of speak the same language and get together. One story that I think really stands out as a big success is around a partner that we work with who does indoor location applications. And there's pure software company right. They write mobile applications that do indoor location, and but they they need a network underneath that, and so we have had a great coming together of some of our main Cisco loyal people who go out and stall the network's connecting with partners like that who come from the pier software side. We've written applications on DSO. That's that's a great one. And that is really something that we see replicating in many places. And I feel like some of the hallway conversations here are, you know, starting the next stories that happened like that. >> This is one of some of the best cause they're natural. Organic conversations are not scripted. It's not reading slides. Well, I wish we had more time, but we'll have to see you back at dusk alive. All right? What about six weeks or so? Yes, it's coming out coming, kid. And Oh, Mandy, congratulations on this success bursting at the seams. And we appreciate you taking some time to talk with John and me today. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Our pleasure for John, for your I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco. Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching. >> Yeah,

live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California it's the queue covering Devon that create 2018 brought to you by Cisco okay welcome back everyone we're live here in Silicon Valley in Mountain View California it's keeps coverage dev net create here I'm John Firth mykos Lauren Cooney and next is Louie Louis froyo Technical Evangelist an IBM good to see you again thank you for having me Lauren ketchup IBM love to think shirt welcome back thank you thank you it's great here so what's going on for you here I am partnering with Cisco what's let's get what's going on well here are we're here to help you know sort of promote the idea around IOT analytics at the edge right with the idea of demonstrating a lot of the IBM products you know I did a workshop today and you know a lot of hands-on mechanical stuff but also leveraging some of the IOT technology offered by IBM so IBM cloud cloud analytics mainly is what you're doing that's right we've chat in the past going back big day two days Anup days when it was you know fashionable now it's kind of have a that's more data leaks nothing let's do the central part of the conversation ai is obviously Mark Zuckerberg and presenting in front of or testifying in front of the Senate's right it's all around AI in analytics Asli dated the data rules change but year conversation with Cisco is IOT yeah because a lot of the network stuff edge of the network these are paradigms that our network inherently perfect for Cisco that's right IBM does a lot of IOT job do a lot a blockchain work as well yeah this is all serving enterprise so what's the big theme real relevant theme for enterprises when it comes to things like how do I use flop chain or how do I use IOT how do I incorporate that tech into my enterprise well I think the first the first barrier is to just understand the technology and the limitations of that technology so you mentioned blockchain you know I'm out quite a bit in the field talking to people talking to partners IBM partners customers customers and there's this confusion around what's a blockchain is what blockchain is all about and the same with big data back in the day you mentioned you know we met up with some conferences back then I think they need to understand what the technologies do what they serve what purposes they serve so blockchain is fairly new right there's a lot of confusion there was the same with big data back and a very confusing IOT you know when we go out as a Technical Evangelist my team we go out and we talk to people there's an appetite to learn more to understand what this IOT thing is and how can they use it how did how can it help us make more money what are they drilling down on our where or better yet what are you evangelizing in what's what are they receptive to what's what's working for them what are they resonates with the customers or potential customers that you guys talk to first and foremost the fact that you know when we go out we have live sessions and we train we give them hands-on right out of the gate within you know 20 minutes they have a bot checkoff built within an hour we build a blockchain right with it with and they do it they see it they experience it and that excites them and then along the way we also we try to educate them on you know why this is important this is how it can be used you know IOT is you know this confusion around that - you know how can i leverage this but I've also talked to customers where they're doing some cool stuff with the edge and I think that leads to my next question actually was which is what use cases do you see what our customers talking about you know I think if you have people building block chains and things along those lines that's great but what are they going to apply it - yeah so there's a perfect example working with a customer and they they're businesses around drones you know UAVs to go out and look for anomalies on pipelines oil pipelines so they have a great technology a drone you know we can go 100 kilometers an hour they can go 100 kilometers in distance but what they need they really need to be able to look for things that shouldn't be there so computer vision you know machine learning deep learning and so we're working with them now to help them get the technology just right to live on the drone to be able to do image recognition highly with high accuracy in real-time so the machine learning in the IOT working out on the edge so is that Watson machine learning no no because it has to happen no we could do or watching today right the problem is you have to have that long-haul communication with the cloud now this needs to happen on the drone in real time okay so we're working with them to figure out you know how we can achieve that and there's some things coming out of IBM and in their future that'll make that a bit easier great and I think that that's an exciting awesome use case to be able to do computer vision on the fly and you know using these neural networks to make decisions I mean the drone example is real life and it's one of those things where we've seen many presentations and examples one of them I loves kind of I'm a wireless geek but I love the towers and I like to see how those they send your owns up there to look at the equipment and then look for repair so it's all automated it's all perfectly executed in the airspace if you will not name space but it goes in there you know power lines you know drones are being used to clear that's right debris and power line all kinds of use cases I think Accenture once told us there was a use case where on car accidents are scenes where they got to take the road and Thrones come in to a full representation and visual and reduces the that's right it's a time to survey the scene along you know one that's read you think about the wind farms these huge wind farms and they have to do inspections use some of these fields you see they're just 500 you know turbines out there and so you need to get out there and the drones are perfect they can look at the blades and you know because they have the high-speed cameras and those blades return and they can still look for defects and fractures and in predict you know using analytics again out there you know predictive maintenance to say hey you know there's something going on here you help us with the cube join me we did cube drone to go out and cover all of our events for us absolutely I'd love to work interviews I'd love to work with you guys that would be null series now just kidding aside is there a profile that you see with customers that resonates well in terms of why are some people more successful now on the cutting edge thing is they got the foresight they got the budget at IT what what's the perfect configuration what makes the customers or a tune to knocking down these low hanging fruit scenarios so I'm gonna say something that's obvious and I'm sure you see it all the time but it's just the risk risk-averse you know you need to put yourself out there you need to be you know a next-gen thinker and that's how we you know within my team when we think about going out and finding these next-gen partners you know born in the cloud you know they're thinking they're thinking beyond what's the from you so the people that are doing these this cool work there either you know a really hardcore tech you know like the drone example or these young entrepreneurs who really don't have much to lose and they have these great ideas you know certainly around blockchain I've heard some some cool ideas around blockchain what people want to do with it and so they you know they're small they're agile they have a vision and they'll take the chance you know the theme here that's interesting and Laura and I were talking about earlier is that the co-creation model is really where the ideas are going to come from so the old model was you pixton technology selection and you put it to work and you that should appreciate or amortize it over whatever period financially to pay back period all that nonsense now to a world where all the ideas are coming from the teams themselves yeah so the the suppliers the vendors don't pitch here's our IOT solution place our IOT fabric is invest Indies are the new approaches the new posture for vendors where these developers who are creating all the action yeah it certainly you know you see that look yeah yeah yeah that's how just you know the workshop we did here today you know if someone wants to kick the tires and wants to learn you know you're not gonna go to proprietary vendor equipments like the big data back in the day you know everyone started with the dupe that was the center of it right open so yeah and it's the same here so there's a lot of Technology open source free technology for people to go out and do prototypes and figure out what they need to do and that's what we're seeing people you know certainly when we go out and do our live events with IBM hands on immediately you know you're doing IOT solutions right so you can take it away and you can go back and then now you can apply it and build on it so you know it's going back to just education and people understanding what these technologies are how to use them and and how to get started you know the proverbial HelloWorld program is there a big event coming up for IBM you got you're gonna be going towards or what's your schedule look like you're on the road a lot what are the big things you got going on well we just had think out in Vegas are you guys were there I was there and we had IBM index not too long before that so that's sort of like the developer event like this for us on a team Aman we have schedules throughout the year to go through various cities there are 15 of us all around the country you know hosting meetups and you know initiating meetups getting partner events co-hosting with developers or cxos or oh so we we target the development team and we target the you know the decision maker around making purchases right so they need to be a part of that story you know we can easily win over the developers with our technology the hard part is winning over the people that signed the check so yeah it's exciting buddy thanks for stopping by great to see you yeah thank you very much your job analytics the heart of the IOT Louis froley Oh Technical Evangelist at IBM you know in the days where all the action is obviously the date as the center you got AI blockchain that's IBM's vision love does love the new love the new messaging from IBM right money we have two definite create here in Silicon Valley more live coverage after this short break