live from New York it's the cube covering AWS summit New York 2018 hot GUI Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back here live cube coverage in New York City for AWS Amazon Web Services summit 2018 I'm John Fourier with Jeff Rick here at the cube our next guest is dr. Matt wood general manager of artificial intelligence with Amazon Web Services keep alumnae been so busy for the past year and been on the cubanía thanks for coming back appreciate you spending the time so promotions keep on going on you got now general manager of the AI group AI operations ai automation machine learning offices a lot of big category of new things developing and a you guys have really taken AI and machine learning to a whole new level it's one of the key value propositions that you guys now have for not just a large enterprise but down to startups and developers so you know congratulations and what's the update oh well the update is this morning in the keynote I was lucky enough to introduce some new capabilities across our platform when it comes to machine learning our mission is that we want to be able to take machine learning and make it available to all developers we joke internally that we just want to we want to make machine learning boring we wanted to make it vanilla it's just it's another tool in the tool chest of any developer and any any data data scientist and we've done that this idea of taking technology that is traditionally only within reached a very very small number of well-funded organizations and making it as broadly distributed as possible we've done that pretty successfully with compute storage and databases and analytics and data warehousing and we want to do the exact same thing for the machine learning and to do that we have to kind of build an entirely new stack and we think of that stack in in three different tiers the bottom tier really for academics and researchers and data scientists we provide a wide range of frameworks open source programming libraries the developers and data scientists use to build neural networks and intelligence they're things like tend to flow and Apache mx9 and by torch and they're really they're very technical you can build you know arbitrarily sophisticated says most she open source to write mostly open source that's right we contribute a lot of our work back to MX net but we also contribute to buy torch and to tend to flow and there's big healthy open source projects growing up around you know all these popular frameworks plus more like chaos and gluon and horror boredom so that's a very very it's a key area for for researchers and academics the next level up we have machine learning platforms this is for developers and data scientists who have data they see in the clout although they want to move to the cloud quickly but they want to be able to use for modeling they want to be able to use it to build custom machine learning models and so here we try and remove as much of the undifferentiated heavy lifting associated with doing that as possible and this is really where sage maker fits in Cersei's maker allows developers to quickly fill train optimize and host their machine learning models and then at the top tier we have a set of AI services which are for application developers that don't want to get into the weeds they just want to get up and running really really quickly and so today we announced four new services really across those their middle tier in that top tier so for Sage maker we're very pleased to introduce a new streaming data protocol which allows you to take data straight from s3 and pump it straight into your algorithm and straight onto the computer infrastructure and what that means is you no longer have to copy data from s3 onto your computer infrastructure in order to be able to start training you just take away that step and just stream it right on there and it's an approach that we use inside sage maker for a lot of our built-in algorithms and it significantly increases the the speed of the algorithm and significantly of course decreases the cost of running the training because you pay by the second so any second you can save off it's a coffin for the customer and they also it helps the machine learn more that's right yeah you can put more data through it absolutely so you're no longer constrained by the amount of disk space you're not even constrained by the amount of memory on the instance you can just pump terabyte after terabyte after terabyte and we actually had another thing like talked about in the keynote this morning a new customer of ours snap who are routinely training on over 100 terabytes of image data using sage maker so you know the ability to be able to pump in lots of data is one of the keys to building successful machine learning applications so we brought that capability to everybody that's using tensorflow now you can just have your tensor flow model bring it to Sage maker do a little bit of wiring click a button and you were just start streaming your data to your tents upload what's the impact of the developer time speed I think it is it is the ability to be able to pump more data it is the decrease in time it takes to start the training but most importantly it decreases the training time all up so you'll see between a 10 and 25 percent decrease in training time some ways you can train more models or you can train more models per in the same unit time or you can just decrease the cost so it's a completely different way of thinking about how to train over large amounts of data we were doing it internally and now we're making it available for everybody through tej matrix that's the first thing the second thing that we're adding is the ability to be able to batch process and stage make them so stage maker used to be great at real-time predictions but there's a lot of use cases where you don't want to just make a one-off prediction you want to predict hundreds or thousands or even millions of things all at once so let's say you've got all of your sales information at the end of the month you want to use that to make a forecast for the next month you don't need to do that in real-time you need to do it once and then place the order and so we added batch transforms to Sage maker so you can pull in all of that data large amounts of data batch process it within a fully automated environment and then spin down the infrastructure and you're done it's a very very simple API anyone that uses a lambda function it's can take advantage of this again just dramatically decreasing the overhead and making it so much easier for everybody to take advantage of machine load and then at the top layer we had new capabilities for our AI services so we announced 12 new language pairs for our translation service and we announced new transcription so capability which allows us to take multi-channel audio such as might be recorded here but more commonly on contact centers just like you have a left channel on the right channel for stereo context centers often record the agent and the customer on the same track and today you can now pass that through our transcribed service long-form speech will split it up into the channels or automatically transcribe it will analyze all the timestamps and create just a single script and from there you can see what was being talked about you can check the topics automatically using comprehend or you can check the compliance did the agents say the words that they have to say for compliance reasons at some point during the conversation that's a material new capability for what's the top surface is being used obviously comprehend transcribe and barri of others you guys have put a lot of stuff out there all kinds of stuff what's the top sellers top use usage as a proxy for uptake you know I think I think we see a ton of we see a ton of adoption across all of these areas but where a lot of the momentum is growing right now is sage maker so if you look at a formula one they just chose Formula One racing they just chose AWS and sage maker as their machine learning platform the National Football League Major League Baseball today announcer they're you know re offering their relationship and their strategic partnership with AWS cream machine learning so all of these groups are using the data which just streams out of these these races all these games yeah and that can be the video or it can be the telemetry of the cars or the telemetry of the players and they're pumping that through Sage maker to drive more engaging experiences for their viewers so guys ok streaming this data is key this is a stage maker quickly this can do video yeah just get it all in all of it well you know we'd love data I would love to follow up on that so the question is is that when will sage maker overtake Aurora as the fastest growing product in history of Amazon because I predicted that reinvent that sage maker would go on err is it looking good right now I mean I sorta still on paper you guys are seeing is growing but see no eager give us an indicator well I mean I don't women breakout revenue per service but even the same excitement I'll say this the same excitement that I see Perseids maker now and the same opportunity and the same momentum it really really reminds me of AWS ten years ago it's the same sort of transformative democratizing approach to which really engages builders and I see the same level of the excitement as levels are super super high as well no super high in general reader pipe out there but I see the same level of enthusiasm and movement and the middle are building with it basically absolutely so what's this toy you have here I know we don't have a lot of time but this isn't you've got a little problem this is the world's first deep learning in April were on wireless video camera we thought it D blends we announced it and launched it at reinvent 2017 and actually hold that but they can hold it up to the camera it's a cute little device we modeled it after wall-e the Pixar movie and it is a HD video camera on the front here and in the base here we have a incredibly powerful custom piece of machine learning hardware so this can process over a billion machine learning operations per second you can take the video in real time you send it to the GPU on board and we'll just start processing the stream in real time so that's kind of interesting but the real value of this and why we designed it was we wanted to try and find a way for developers to get literally hands-on with machine learning so the way that build is a lifelong learners right they they love to learn they have an insatiable appetite for new information and new technologies and the way that they learn that is they experiment they start working and they kind of spin this flywheel where you try something out it works you fiddle with it it stops working you learn a little bit more and you want to go around around around that's been tried and tested for developers for four decades the challenge with machine learning is doing that is still very very difficult you need a label data you need to understand the algorithms it's just it's hard to do but with deep lens you can get up and running in ten minutes so it's connected back to the cloud it's good at about two stage makeup you can deploy a pre-built model down onto the device in ten minutes to do object detection we do some wacky visual effects with neural style transfer we do hot dog and no hot dog detection of course but the real value comes in that you can take any of those models tear them apart so sage maker start fiddling around with them and then immediately deploy them back down onto the camera and every developer on their desk has things that they can detect there are pens and cups and people whatever it is so they can very very quickly spin this flywheel where they're experimenting changing succeeding failing and just going round around a row that's for developers your target audience yes right okay and what are some of the things that have come out of it have you seen any cool yes evolutionary it has been incredibly gratifying and really humbling to see developers that have no machine learning experience take this out of the box and build some really wonderful projects one in really good example is exercise detection so you know when you're doing a workout they build a model which detects the exerciser there and then detects the reps of the weights that you're lifting now we saw skeletal mapping so you could map a person in 3d space using a simple camera we saw security features where you could put this on your door and then it would send you a text message if it didn't recognize who was in front of the door we saw one which was amazing which would read books aloud to kids so you would hold up the book and they would detect the text extract the text send the text to paly and then speak aloud for the kids so there's games as educational tools as little security gizmos one group even trained a dog detection model which detected individual species plug this into an enormous power pack and took it to the local dog park so they could test it out so it's all of this from from a cold start with know machine learning experience you having fun yes absolutely one of the great things about machine learning is you don't just get to work in one area you get to work in you get to work in Formula One and sports and you get to work in healthcare and you get to work in retail and and develop a tool in CTO is gonna love this chief toy officers chief toy officers I love it so I got to ask you so what's new in your world GM of AI audition intelligence what does that mean just quickly explain it for our our audience is that all the software I mean what specifically are you overseeing what's your purview within the realm of AWS yeah that's that's a totally fair question so my purview is I run the products for deep learning machine learning and artificial intelligence really across the AWS machine learning team so I get I have a lot of fingers in a lot of pies I get involved in the new products we're gonna go build out I get involved in helping grow usage of existing products I get it to do a lot of invention it spent a ton of time with customers but overall work with the rest of the team on setting the technical and pronto strategy for machine learning at AWS when what's your top priorities this year adoption uptake new product introductions and you guys don't stop it well we do sync we don't need to keep on introducing more and more things any high ground that you want to take what's what's the vision I didn't the vision is to is genuinely to continue to make it as easy as possible for developers to use Ruggiero my icon overstate the importance or the challenge so we're not at the point where you can just pull down some Python code and figure it out we're not even we don't have a JVM for machine learning where there's no there's no developer tools or debuggers there's very few visualizers so it's still very hard if you kind of think of it in computing terms we're still working in assembly language and you're seen learning so there's this wealth of opportunity ahead of us and the responsibility that I feel very strongly is to be able to continually in crew on the staff to continually bring new capabilities to mortar but well cloud has been disrupting IT operations AI ops with a calling in Silicon Valley and the venture circuit Auto ml as a term has been kicked around Auto automatic machine learning you got to train the machines with something data seems to be it strikes me about this compared to storage or compared to compute or compared to some of the core Amazon foundational products those are just better ways to do something they already existed this is not a better way to do something that are exists this is a way to get the democratization at the start of the process of the application of machine learning and artificial intelligence to a plethora of applications in these cases that is fundamentally yeah different in it just a step up in terms of totally agree the power to the hands of the people it's something which is very far as an area which is very fast moving and very fast growing but what's funny is it totally builds on top of the cloud and you really can't do machine learning in any meaningful production way unless you have a way that is cheap and easy to collect large amounts of data in a way which allows you to pull down high-performance computation at any scale that you need it and so through the cloud we've actually laid the foundations for machine learning going forwards and other things too coming oh yes that's a search as you guys announced the cloud highlights the power yet that it brings to these new capabilities solutely yeah and we get to build on them at AWS and at Amazon just like our customers do so osage make the runs on ec2 we wouldn't we won't be able to do sage maker without ec2 and you know in the fullness of time we see that you know the usage of machine learning could be as big if not bigger than the whole of the rest of AWS combined that's our aspiration dr. Matt would I wish we had more time to Chad loved shopping with you I'd love to do a whole nother segment on what you're doing with customers I know you guys are great customer focus as Andy always mentions when on the cube you guys listen to customers want to hear that maybe a reinvent will circle back sounds good congratulations on your success great to see you he showed it thanks off dr. Matt would here in the cube was dreaming all this data out to the Amazon Cloud is whether they be hosts all of our stuff of course it's the cube bringing you live action here in New York City for cube coverage of AWS summit 2018 in Manhattan we'll be back with more after this short break

live from Las Vegas it's the Cuban covering AWS reinvent 2017 presented by AWS Intel and our ecosystem of partners ok welcome back everyone we're here live in Las Vegas forty two thousand plus people maybe forty five huge numbers here at AWS reinvent twin seventeen Amazon Web Services annual conference wall-to-wall coverage our third day I'm John Ferrier the co-founder of silicon Anglo what's two Minutemen we're here with Andy Jesse the CEO of Amazon Web Services the Andy crate to see you again great to see you thanks for having me on graduations we had a great chat a week ago you and I sat down for breakfast and you kind of laid out you kind of laid out with a plan for the show here but I you kind of left a lot out of this you hold it back I've know every three hours from I thought I had a great story you needed the floor our breakfast oh damn it's good what an announcement I mean your keno two and a half hours I mean the longest keynote I've seen just non-stop announces you went right into a no preamble right into the announcements how many announcements did you do like fifty plus or what was the number I think there were 22 news services and features announced in the keynote I did alright so you gotta look back now as it's coming down to an end to reap the parties tonight what's your take I mousey you're absorbing it still he's still kind of like numb pinch me moment what's what's the vibe what are you feeling right now you know it's been a fantastic week and this is our favorite week of the year just having the chance to spend the week with our entire community and I think that it's been a very successful week in terms of what we were trying to accomplish which was it's always first and foremost of learning and education conference and I think that people feel like the array of sessions they've been able to go to and what they've learned both about the services altogether the new services we announced and then just especially what other peers are doing on top of the platform I think has been really valuable and I've had a lot of customer meetings over the last few days and the conversations have been so excited you know people saying I just can't you know you guys already had so much functionality but I just can't believe the amount of innovation and capability the two guys just released over the last couple days and several people said to me you know how to I knew I was having a meeting with you so I had a list of things I was gonna ask you to to deliver and during your keynote I kept going check check check so they're a really positive excited conversation talk about the flywheel what's going on with you guys right now I use that term kind of a pun intended because you've got some flywheel going on as you add more services I detailed in my story after we met I teased out this is a competitive advantage for you you just listen to listening to customers but you're putting out more services there's leveraging those services so it's good for customers but I worry about the complexity and they might worry about the complexity how do you talk about that and how does your team address that because I mean tsunami of services yeah well you know I think that the first thing to remember is that simply because we have a lot of functionality doesn't mean that customers have to know about every single service and every single feature they use what they need when they need it and they don't have to pay for it up front and so you know one of the reasons we release so many things during the area of over 1300 services and features this year alone and in about 70 new releases just at reinvent this week is that when you have millions of active customers you have lots of diversity in those customers you know lots of different businesses lots of different priorities lots of different needs and so you know even in the set of customer meetings I've had this week the first question I asked every single customer i sat down with is what are your impressions what are you excited about they were some who said I can't believe I'm so excited about sage maker it's gonna completely change the accessibility of doing machine learning in my org and some said oh I really really wanted those language application services and machine learning others were totally focused on the multi master or aurora on the global tables for dynamodb and the graph database and then still others said you know I love ECS but I've wanted a kubernetes option and then now that I don't even have to manage containers at the server level and I can manage the task level is what I'm excited about still others who are IOT customers that's what cared about so we have so many customers it was such diversity in their businesses and their priorities that they all have a bunch of needs keep on delivering on that and I want to get your reaction something that we've been talking about in the cube all week which is well I've been pushing its due and I've been kind of debating it but we see a clear path towards a new renaissance in software development and invention and it comes down to some of the things that you guys have enabled we saw a lot of go get excited by some of the deep learning I'll see lecture for business and two other things it's easier to do stuff now the application layer because you don't have to build the full stack so we're you guys are talking about a reimagining architecture that was Vernors keynote it's all kind of pointing to a new Renaissance a new way to create value what's your reaction then how do you share that the customers because it's kind of a new new model yeah well I think that this has been happening now for you know the last ten years and I think that people aren't building applications for the most part the way they used to it you know if you if you're building new applications and you're trying to build all the hosting software and all the storage software and all the database software at all the messaging and queuing and analytics and and machine learning you're just wasting resource because because when you when you have the option of using 120 services from a platform like AWS that has thousands and thousands of people working on it delivering on average three-and-a-half new features a day that you could choose to use or not it's so much faster and so much more empowering to let your builders take advantage of that platform you get from idea to implementation and orders of magnitude faster using the cloud and that you know what keeps happening is we just keep adding more and more capabilities that allow people get now even the marketplace we just had Barry Russell on and you go now are bringing a global reach opportunity so not only can you help them get to market faster with coding and building value this growth so it's not just parking the marketplace and hope that something happens they're taking advantage of that growth I think it's a really important point it's it's not just a set of services that we're building but are thousands and thousands vis--vis and SAS providers who are also building products on top of AWS where their business is growing by leaps and bounds I mean one of the interesting things about the marketplace I don't know how much you guys have talked about this in the past or currently is that most if you talk to most software buyers they hate the process it you know it's just how long it takes the negotiation process most the software sellers also hate the process and so if you can find a mechanism which is what we're trying to provide with the AWS marketplace where buyers and sellers can complete those transactions and find each other so much faster it totally changes the world of buying software and consuming software Andy I came in this week pretty excited to look at the adoption of server lists and you know congratulations you've impressed a lot of announcements talked a lot of customers the thing that probably impressed me the most is it went from being kind of just lambda to really integrated all the service it's a much more holistic view but you made a comment that I that a lot of us in the community kind of you know poked at a little witches if you were to build AWS today in 2017 you would build it you know on you mean Amazon yes sorry Amazon on it today now I've talked to startups that are building all server list but you know it was on D gigantic company and you know I talked to Tim I talked to the team a lot of things I can't do so is this a goal or you know it just being kind of kind of the future or you know do you feel that I can put you know a global you know company of your size you know built with yeah yeah it's a good question and you know I really the comment I made was really about directionally what Amazon would do you know in the city in the very earliest days of AWS Jeff used to say a lot if I were starting Amazon today I'd have built it on top AWS we didn't have all the capability and all the functionality at that very moment but he knew what was coming and he saw what people were still able to accomplish even with where the services were at that point I think the same thing is true here with lambda which is I think if Amazon we're starting today it's a given they would build it on the cloud and I think we with a lot of the applications that comprise Amazon's consumer business we would build those on our server list capabilities now we still have plenty of capabilities and features and functionality we need to add to to lambda and our various serverless services so that may not be true from the get-go right now but I think if you look at the hundreds of thousands of customers who are building on top of lambda and lots of real applications you know FINRA is built a good chunk of their market watch application on top of lambda and Thompson Reuters has built you know that one of their key analytics apps like people are building real serious things on top of lambda and the pace of iteration you'll see there will increase as well and I really believe that to be true over the next year or two and you talked a little bit more about competition than then I'm used to hearing in the keynote I mean there's been some pokes at some of the database stuff in that migration but you know when it walked talked about there was this colorful bar chart you put up and you had some data pointing about that you know in your market chairs growing your continuing growth you know how do you look at the market landscape what are people you know still getting wrong yeah I think that I don't think that we actually talked that much more or less about competitors in the keynote there was a slide that had a color chart that may have been the only difference but you know for us it's always about you you could spend so much your time trying to look at what others are doing and wondering what they're gonna do the reality is if you don't stay focused on your customers and what they actually care about you know you're wasting your time about mobile and business years ago Alexa for business is a new thing voice we heard from Berner today it's a new interface so we were talking on the cube it's the first time we're kind of talking about this constant maybe we're the first ones to say it so we'll just say it voice first strategy mobile first created a massive wealth creation iPhone new kinds of application development voice has that same feel voice first interface could spawn massive innovation yeah what's your view their reaction what do you guys talk about internally at Amazon in terms of a how voice will take advantage of all your scale yeah well I strongly agree with what you heard Verner communicate in the in his keynote today which is just you know when we first had phones that had apps and you could do all kinds of things by tapping on the phone like that was revolutionary but then when you experienced a voice app it makes tapping on your phone so circa 2010 and so I think that the world will have a huge amount of voice applications it's gonna be people's preference and in part because it's just a more natural expression than actually tapping and trying to click and type things and so we we had so many customers almost a good chunk of our enterprise meetings that we have throughout the year one of the things customers want to talk about is how can I actually be involved in using Alexa how can I build skills for Alexa and then over the last few months that conversation has started to turn to hey you thinking about making Alexa more useful inside of businesses and for work and so there's so much applicability I think that voice first it's gonna have the same kind of impact or more than the mobile trend or I think it has a chance to have as big an impact I mean all the devices have to continue to evolve and you can see that at Amazon we're continuing to build all kinds of diverse devices but I think voice is gonna be a major mode of how people interact with handi 42,000 people I don't know how you top it congratulations on all your success and appreciate the growth and you've done with the company congratulate breaking chicken wing contest to Tonka yeah we said a Guinness I what is that about come on tell us about this door well I Tatanka is a buffalo wing eating club that we started in Seattle back in 1997 and we go for wings we used to go every Tuesday night for wings and we have membership standards you can become a regular member if you need 10 wings with five pasty wings a pasty wing is you know when the wing sauce sits the room temperature and it kind of congeals it gets Spacey so it's five wings wrapped in that pays platinum membership is 25 wings plus five pasties then we started having eating contests and we call it a tonka Bowl and so when we start a reinvent we very much wanted to have a conference that had a lot of interesting fun quirky events and one of the ideas we had was we said well let's try an eating contest and the first year we tried it we did it a lunchtime down in the basement and nobody wanted to have an eating contest at one o'clock in the afternoon in the middle of rain BAM so then we moved it to Lagasse Stadium here in the Venetian and people started coming so this year we had two groups of about a hundred each one at Lagasse won at the MGM and they they did a 30-minute round and then the top five wing eaters in each venue came back to one place for a second round and the winner apparently ate a cumulative total of 59 wings there were three thousand eight hundred and fifty-seven Wings consumed in the contest about as many features as Amazon has released since the first time event sounds like to continue the momentum and you're eating away at the competition congratulations Andy jazzy CEOs on Web Services the cube thanks for coming in man and I appreciate it guys thanks for being here appreciate it live coverage here from Las Vegas Amazon webster's reinvent annual conference 2017 s the cube I'm John Force to Minutemen be back with more live coverage after this short break [Music]

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's The Cube, covering AWS Reinvent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> John: And we are live here at Las Vegas, at the Sands Expo wrapping up our coverage here. Reinvent three days strong, inter-going with AWS and a number of great partners within their ecosystem. One of those is Fortinet and we're now joined by Matt Play who is the VP of Cloud Carrier and service providers there at Fortinet, thanks for joining us here Matt, good to see you, sir. >> Matt: It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. >> John: Yeah, tell us a little bit about, you know, first of all, what you do as far as the company's concerned and about your relationship with AWS and I know you're exhibiting just over our shoulder here so, its a big week for you and for them. >> Matt: I mean the energy here is unlike any other event I've been to, it's fantastic, you can't even describe what this feels like, you have to really be here to really appreciate it so it's just been, it's my first show, being here and it's just absolutely great to see, you know, all the companies collaborating, people getting together and working together. So from the show perspective, I mean it's just fantastic. So we're just happy to be a part of it and Fortinet is doing a lot of great things with AWS. I think our synergies are really well aligned, we have a lot of commonality in our DNA and our culture in history. So, you know, we love to, we're innovators. We love technology and we really hang our hat on that. So as a security ISV you can the products, that's always important right, the products that are involved in it but it's really about the theory or philosophy behind it that we really look towards to accelerate our partnership. >> John: Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much booth time you spend but I'm just always curious at shows. What's the chatter about? You know, when people come up what are they most interested about? You know, what's been like in your mind an overall theme or that recurring theme that you're hearing a lot from potential customers here? >> It's really diverse so it's not just one talk track. It's really a number of different points or elements or what's important. You look around you see IOT, you see dev-ops, you see a number of different things that are kind of bubbling up and you saw all the announcements from AWS and Bare-Metal so that's gonna change things quite a bit. So it was really surprising to see, you know some of our announcements this week were really important. >> John: You've had a big week. >> Matt: We had a great week. >> John: Yeah. >> Matt: We had some really special things that we'd been working on that got announced this week. You know FortiSandboxes and On Demand now in AWS. So we're the only sandbox available in AWS. I think that's very compelling and that's a pretty useful thing. The WAF rules that was a launch yesterday that happened and we're part of the role set so you can take some of the role sets it goes out to our fort of guard enforces it. And then finally they became fabric partner. So fabric really is for us an ecosystem of products. But not only our products it's really about working with other collaboration partners but sometimes competitors and that's okay with us because we believe that's really the only way security's gonna be effective. >> Justin: We were talking before and you were explaining some of the portfolio approach that Fortinet takes to security. We've always been talking about defense in depth as being a thing that you should do with security and really there is no one magic silver bullet that you can use. You have to have different tools for different use cases. And you've got lots of different products that all work well together but they also work well with other products. Which is quite interesting, that fabric concept. Could you maybe give us a bit more color on what the fabric is and some of the portfolio products that plug in? >> Absolutely. So to your first point, we have eight products in AWS and available. It's really about creating a security stack of enforcement because one product necessarily won't do the entire job you need it to do. So we have complementary products, we have, you know, bespoke products, or pointed products. So we have, like I was saying, eight. That's the most out of any other security ISV in the marketplace today. So I think that's a huge competitive advantage. And really what's important is that you really need to see, have a single pane of glass console to look to look at your environments. >> Yeah. >> Statistics say around 65% of organizations or enterprises will have a hybrid environment. So kinda the legacy bespoke, or the legacy traditional networks, and then they're gonna have obviously AWS in instances and it's really important for security that correlation and automation to see across your entire network and footprint that you have. Really all the products to us are all the same whether you deploy them on-premise, off-premise, in the cloud, private cloud, public cloud, really doesn't matter to us. It's all the same sort of look and feel for our products. >> Yeah, I am hearing from all the security people both vendor and on the customer side that I speak to that there is a real collaboration going on in security right now. And we were talking just before we went to air that the security has just blown up in the last sort of four or five years. What used to be a bit of an afterthought is now front of mind for a lot of customers. So they're using some of the products like Fortinet to be able to say "well I want to solve this and this is something I need to do today but I also need it to work with other things that I'm doing". So it's interesting that Fortinet's chosen to take that partnering approach particularly something like your relationship with AWS with web application firewalls that you're doing. That's a real partnership approach where you're saying "we do something quite well but Amazon can use this to give us access to more and more customers". Is that part of Fortinet's core way of doing things? Has that always been the case? >> Yeah, I think, you know the history and sort of DNA of Fortinet it was kinda founded on let's do it ourselves. Let's build it because we believe we can build it the best. And so kinda through the generation of that like you said, you know, security is one of the things that it was sort of geeky and kinda cool sorta specific like people didn't really understand security all that well but now it's headline news and changes market cap literally overnight. Right, we see that a lot in the news and unfortunately some nasty things happen to peoples' information. So if you look at that our CFO talked about digital trust a number of years ago. And really, you want to do business with companies you trust and that's so important. So when you give your credit card information, your social security number, that's important, right. You want somebody to take caution when jotting down that information, right. So, for us, we saw it as a competitive advantage because how it really started for us before the fabric was threat information sharing. So we have an initiative where we work with others in the marketplace who are security vendors to share threat data and to make that more useful for companies because really that's what's gonna win. And sharing and looking at the portfolio it really goes back Fortiguard platform. Everything kind of points back to that as far as the threat vectors, right. >> You mention that there'd been problems, obviously, there's a headline a week, right. And that's kind of the point of the question I want to get at here with you. In a way, from a consumer standpoint, we're almost desensitized a little bit because oh god another one, right. Another breach, another problem so what kind of mind set are you fighting in terms of you can have 1000 wins but one loss or a million wins but one loss it's another headline it's another problem and it's another barrier for you. I mean, how do you look at that from a philosophical approach as a company and a mind set approach as a company? >> That's a great question, right. So there is kind of this, I think in the industry, there's this consensus that it's not a question of if it's a question of when. And so, that's a little hard to stomach, right. >> John: Cause you wanna win them all. >> You're saying, hey look, right you wanna win 100% of the time and that's just the reality of life, right. Yeah, of course, right. So, of course we look at it as a layered approach. So if you, I'll use a very simple analogy but I think it's sort of effective. If you lock your front door, if you lock your windows, if you put on your alarm system, you have cameras, and then ideally you live in a gated neighborhood. They're just layers to ensure that if someone comes by to look at your environment, and they go "man that's too hard, it's just too much work. There's cameras there, I can tell they have a dog, it's way too complicated I'm getting into that". And that's what security really should be. Security should be a multi layer approach that uses complementary products that coordinate and orchestrate together and automate and those are really important things when it comes to security and keeping the bad guys out. So you sort of want to have this security posture that's just so many layers of defense that it's very hard to penetrate. >> So when's someone's thinking about what they've currently got in there like looking at their threat model that they might have and what their risk would be at the moment. How would you help customers to evaluate well, what should I do next? We were talking with someone else on the cube earlier today about well okay, you need to do the basics first. You need to brush your teeth. How do you help customers identify what is the 'locking your front door'? What is the 'I need to buy a dog'? What is the 'I need to make sure I've got all my windows locked'? >> Matt: Right. >> So how do you help customers figure that out? >> That's a great question. Always when we talk with customers we evaluate their environment, very bespoke and sort of custom-tailored. That's very important to understand exactly what you're trying to solve. However, just like your credit score, we believe that there should be a security competency score. So it's sort of an in depth evaluation of your network, the holistic security posture, how that looks, and so we're now offering that in our new platform. To come in and offer sort of a security threat score, if you will, to say how effective we think you are. So I think that helps. >> Justin: It's like a maturity model. >> What's that? >> It's like a maturity model. >> Matt: Yep, exactly so I think that's gonna help a lot of people make sense out of it. And there's different parameters and how we report that back to our customers that sort of makes sense and then we say, "well we believe these products should be the products that you choose and this is the kind of security posture you have". And, you know the reality is, if you're connected to the internet you have to get out and things have to get it. >> [One Of The Hosts] Yeah. >> So you just have to have that layered approach. >> John: It used to be like it was a cost decision way back. Now reputation's on the line, you said market cap as you pointed out. I mean, the risks and the exposure and the damage is exponentially worse today than it was just three, four years ago, right. >> I think it even seems different from like six months ago. You know, it's really insane to think that companies could disappear based upon what happens with that information. We don't want to be the ambulance chaser, that's not our philosophy but it's about being protected and it's about being you know. I think with with security, retrospectively going back, is not all that useful. With security, it's better to kinda take the work and do it up front and we believe that that's what's really changing in the market that pivot to when you design a network security is arm and arm with networking or you know in this case, in AWS' case, how you move workloads elastically to the cloud. I mean those are all considerations now and I think you see that in the marketplace and in AWS' launch, like we said in the WAF rules. I think that's one step closer to marrying security with the function of what you're trying to do in the cloud. >> Justin: Yeah, and it needs to evolve over time as well. So again, you start with the basics, and even as your business changes you might be in completely on-site today but if you go to cloud, well now I need to do cloud-based security things. You have to start thinking about it in a different way. So hopefully customers are looking at things and looking at the portfolio approach and saying "okay, today I might need one product but tomorrow, well, I'm gonna need something else, I'm gonna need two or three or four". And as you say, if I've got something that plays well with others, then I can make a decision yesterday that well, actually I can still use this. I don't suddenly have to throw everything I did a year ago, throw it all away and start again from scratch. >> Matt: Sure, absolutely and that's the fun of what we do. Working in technology, it moves so fast. That's why we all do it I think. Because it's, to be close to it and to be a part of it I mean, that's why I get up everyday it's the coolest thing we get to do. And so because of that, you're right. We don't even know what's gonna happen in 2019. I mean think about the change in just one year's time. The velocity, and what we're seeing that AWS is accomplishing in short periods of time you really need to move quickly. And that's our commitment absolutely as a security company. >> John: And fortunately, you're busy. Right, and fortunately you're busy but because the risks are greater the threats are bigger so all the more reason for the success that you've had obviously and the continued success. We wish you that and thank you for being here on The Cube. We appreciate it. >> Matt: Thanks for having me. >> John: Yeah, always good to see you. That wraps up our coverage here on the cube for my colleague, Mr. Warren, and all of us behind the scenes. Thank you for joining us here, live from AWS Reinvent in Las Vegas. (light music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas: It's theCUBE covering AWS reInvent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back, everyone, we're live here in Las Vegas. 45,000 people here at Amazon Web Services reInvent. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Stu Miniman. Our next guests are Barry Russell, general manager and business development of Amazon Web Services marketplace, growing like a weed, and Chad Whalen, who is the global Vice President of Public Cloud for F5, guys, welcome back to theCUBE. Barry, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So, I mean, just, you can kinda see it now. Clear as day, no more, I mean, Andy says, "We're okay to be misunderstood." That quote, okay, no one's gonna misunderstand the Marketplace. >> Barry: I think it's pretty clear. >> You get in there, and you make money. It's pretty straightforward. >> Barry: Reducing a bunch of friction for customers. >> What's the current pitch, I mean, because this sounds like an easy sell at this point, what's the real benefits? Because, more of services are coming in. You got composability. What's the current state of the Marketplace? >> Yeah, you know, I think it's a couple of things. Uh, it's about selection and customer choice, so we've really grown the catalog, in terms of number of listings that are available and now more than 4200 listings in the catalog, and we announced three key features that we launched on Tuesday: AWS private link which enables SAS products to be run in a VPC. We announced Private Image Build that allows enterprise customers to run their own hardened OS underneath an image, and then we announced Enterprise Contract to reduce friction in the procurement process between large enterprise customers and software vendors. >> Okay, so I gotta ask, the AWS question: What was the working backwards document on this? Was it a main request from the customers? What was the main driver for some of these features because it sounds like they want to be cloud native, but, yet, they still gotta get that migration over, or was it something else, what was the driver? >> The driver was customer feedback. We went out, and we interviewed hundreds of customers over the last 12 months before we started building some of these features, and, without a doubt, they told us they wanted broader selection, broader deployment options, and to reduce friction around the contracting process, and then we just started building, and, over the course of the last nine to 10 months, that's what we've delivered. >> Awesome, all right, F5, you guys are in the Marketplace. You're partnered with AWS. What's your relationship with AWS, how's that going? >> Oh, I would say our relationship with AWS is fantastic. I mean, they're obviously the innovator in the Cloud space. Public Cloud is a strategic imperative for F5. They're at the vanguard of really the innovation of what's taking place in Public Cloud, and Marketplace is that fantastic medium to reach market, and, so, we really have the premise around meeting our customers how and when they want to be met. Marketplace is an excellent vehicle for us to do that, and we've enjoyed a lot of success with launch. >> How has your customers' consumption changed with the Cloud 'cause I can only imagine that, as they look at the mix of how they're gonna consume technology, they want some Cloud. How did you guys hone in on AWS? What was the real factor there? Was is acquisition of the technology? Was it the performance, what was some of the key things? >> You know, I think it's all about really reducing the friction in the process, right? Our customers are moving to the Cloud to have real-time agility and velocity in their business. What we get out of Marketplace is a fantastic set of options from a commercial construct. This solved the customer requirements. If it's going to be at development, we do it on a utility by the hour. When you start to go into production, we can do it in a subscription or a BYOL, so it's really about what application is there permanence and what's the best outcome for the customer, and we have all of that in front of us in multi-year agreements or otherwise leverage in this vehicle. >> So they're tailoring the products, basically. >> Absolutely. >> It sounds like customers are looking at this tailored model, whatever their needs are. They don't wanna be forced into a. >> Correct. >> Certain use case, they can just kind of mix and match. >> Yup, absolutely. >> Yeah, Barry, you know, think networking security have been spaces that I've seen really exploding in this ecosystem over the last couple a years. It, building off of what John was say, I mean, how much of it is custom stuff? You know, things that they're coming, working with Amazon versus just, you know, oh, it's the everything store where I can go get pieces? >> Well, we work with each vendor that lists in the catalog. We have a SA team, Solution Architect team, to work with them on the optimal architecture, be that an omni-based, API-based, and SAS-based, and then we give that vendor and their product development teams the ability to price those products in utility consumption model metered, for example, on the amount of data or band-width consumed, multi-year contracts that are publicly priced or negotiated behind the scenes. So, both in the innovation and the engineering and how the customer actually deploys the product, we innovate on pricing and consumption models to match those deployment options, and we give vendors, all vendors, that enter the catalog, whether they're open-source or commercial products, like F5, the option to use all of those features. >> Yeah, Chad, I think back to, you know, there was the wave of like software, you know, happening kind of networking and secured and everything, but, you know, you've always been in kind of the application delivery portion of this. How is Cloud accelerating your customers' journey and impacting how fast you need to change inside at F5? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I think that because Public Cloud is such a fantastic vehicle for our customers it was really customers-focused, right? So, when you work back from what the customer wants both in terms of how you orchestrate, how you automate, and then with the commercial construct is then they can use it in a best-fit application, and that's really the grounding point for us, and, when we get friction, any time you have a new medium there's going to be friction points and learning points. We've worked in concert with AWS, Marketplace in particular, about solving these ways, whether it's in private offers or custom negotiated offers specifically for customers to meet their needs from an economic and a delivery standpoint. >> I gotta ask the question 'cause it always pops into my head, especially at this reInvent, the pace of services being released, Lambda, Serverless, you can just see it coming. It's going to put more pressure under the hood for automation, that heavy lifting that's Dev Ops, as we know, right, so no new news there. The question is what does it mean for the Marketplace 'cause now you're gonna be under a lot of pressure to integrate a lot of these plumbing and or, abstracted away dev ops-like tools that developers don't wanna provision, so you have the automate so that seems like a challenge. How are you guys dealing with that? How do you make Lambda sing? How do you guys make this thing go smoother? >> Yeah, it's a really great question. I mean, one of the challenges that you get in, when you get into what I would say Cloud Sprawl, within an organization, is how do you maintain the governance and compliance of those workloads? And so we're really lookin' at it from that basis. We want to give as much flexibility into the model while still maintaining what was designed from the beginning, and so our customers wanna use the rules. They wanna have that portability into Public Cloud so they have the assurance. The underlying technologies are just the delivery vehicles, whether it's containers or Lambda or whatever in a server-less architecture, we're focused really on making sure that we have that ubiquity of posture across the asset wherever that asset is. >> Jeff: Makes your sources work together properly. >> Absolutely. >> Barry, what's the trends that you're seeing in the Marketplace? I mean, obviously, there's a lot of growth. Lot of data, and one of the things that I love about this reInvent is they're servicing this new playbook of, hey, use the data, your own data. We saw a new relic had a great report, Sumo Logic kind of report, that basically anonymizes the data, but they're using real data and Verner will talk about this at the keynote. What data can you share about the Marketplace that shows some trends that indicates or allows us to read the tea leaves of what's gonna happen next? >> Well, I think the customer growth stat that we shared, in terms of active monthly customers, we've gone from a hundred active monthly customers we announced last reInvent last year when we were here to now 160,000 active customers using the Marketplace, so we see steady growth. We see growth and adoption from the enterprise, and customers like Shell and Thomson Reuters, that we announced were part of Enterprise contracts on Tuesday, really beginning to think about using the Marketplace to go from traditional procurement moving to digital procurement model allows their IT organizations' dev ops teams to move much fast when pairing with services like a Kinesis, like an S3, like a Red Shift, when they're matching third party software with an AWS-native service. >> Jeff: Are you happy with things right now? Pretty much looking pretty good! >> I'm happy. >> Jeff: Middle of the fairway. >> I think it's been a fantastic show! (laughing) >> I'm happy, F5 has been a great partner of ours in the Marketplace, I'm a happy camper. >> Jeff: What's next? >> What's next? I think what's next for us next year is continuing to grow the Enterprise contract that we deployed, so we started with a small set of customers and vendors that participated to help us arrive at that contract that they both could use, and, I think that over the course of the next 12 months, we really need to think about the types of customers and vendors that enter that program. >> All right, Barry Russell and Chad Whalen with F5. Barry will be back on our next segment with another partner. A lot of partner goodness here. Amazon's ecosystem's exploding, and there's a lot of value to be had by all. That's theCUBE bringing you some content value on our third day live coverage. 45,000 people here this year at Amazon Webster's reInvent. More after this short break. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCube covering AWS reInvent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hello and welcome to theCube's exclusive coverage here in Las Vegas for AWS, Amazon Web Services reinvent 2017, 45,000 people. It's theCube's fifth year in covering AWS, five years ago I think 7,000 people attended, this year close to 45,000, developers and industry participants. And of course this is theCube I'm John Furrier with my co-host Keith Townsend and we're excited to have Cube alumni Sanjay Poonen who's the chief operating officer for VMware. Sanjay great to see you, of course a good friend with Andy Jassy, you went to Harvard Business School together, both Mavericks, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you and you know what I loved about the keynote this morning? Andy and I both love music. And he had all these musical stuff man. He had Tom Petty, he had Eric Clapton. I an not sure I like all of his picks but at least those two, loved it man. >> The music thing really speaks to the artists, artists inside of this industry. >> Yes. >> And we were talking on theCube earlier that, we're in a time now where and I think Tom Siebel said it when he was on, that there's going to be a mass, just extinction of companies that don't make it on the digital transformation and he cited some. You're at VMware you guys are transforming and continue to do well, you've a relationship with Amazon Web Services, talk about the challenge that's in front of business executives right now around this transformation because possibly looking at extinction for some big brands potentially big companies in IT. >> It's interesting that Tom Siebel would say that in terms of where Siebel ended up and where salespersons now I respect him, he's obviously doing good things at C3. But listen that's I think what every company has got to ask itself, how do you build longevity? How do you make yourself sustainable? Next year will be our 20 year anniversary of VMware's founding. The story could have been written about VMware that you were the last good company and then you were a legacy company because you were relevant to yesterday's part of the world which was the data center. And I think the key thing that kept us awake the last two or three years was how do you make them relevant to the other side of history which is the public cloud? What we've really been able to do over the last two or three years is build a story of the company that's not just relevant to the data center and private cloud, which is not going away guys as you know but build a bridge into the public cloud and this partnership has been a key part of that and then of course the third part of that is our end user computing story. So I think cloud mobile security have become the pillars of the new VMware and we're very excited about that and this show, I mean if you combine the momentum of this show and VMworld, collectively at VMworld we have probably about 70, 80,000 people who come to VMworld and Vforums, there's 45,000 people here with all the other summits, there's probably have another 40,000 people, this is collectively about a 100, 150,000 people are coming to the largest infrastructure shows on the planet great momentum. >> And as an infrastructure show that's turning into a developer show line get your thoughts and I want to just clarify something 'cause we pointed this out at VMworld this year because it's pretty obvious what happened. The announcement that you guys did that Ragu and your team did with Ragu with AWS was instrumental. The proof was at VMworld where you saw clarity in the messaging. Everyone can see what's going on. I now know what's happening, my operations are gonna be secure, I can run VSphere on the cloud or on Prem, everything could be called what it is. But the reality was is that you guys have the operators, IT operations and Amazon has a robust cloud native developer community, not that they're conflicting in any way, they're coming together so it was a smart move so I got to ask you, as you guys continue your relationship with AWS, how are you guys tying the new ops role, ops teams with the dev teams because with IoT, this is where it's coming together you can see it right there? Your thoughts? >> I mean listen, the partnership is going great. I just saw Andy Jassy after his exec summit session, gave him a hug. We're very excited about it and I think of any of the technology vendors he mentioned on stage, we were on several slides there, mentioned a few times. I think we're probably one of the top tech partners of his and reality is, there's two aspects to the story. One is the developer and operations come together which you, you eloquently articulated. The other aspect is, we're the king of the private cloud and they're the king of the public cloud, when you can bring these together, you don't have to make it a choice between one or the other, we want to make sure that the private cloud is maximized to its full extent and then you build a bridge into the public cloud. I think those two factors, bringing developer and operations together and marrying the private and public cloud, what we call hybrid cloud computing, a term we coined and now of course many others-- >> I think-- >> On top of the term. Well whoever did. >> I think HP might have coined it. >> But nonetheless, we feel very good about the future about developer and operations and hybrid cloud computing being a good part of the world's future. >> Sanjay, I actually interviewed you 2016 VMworld and you said something very interesting that now I look back on it I'm like, "Oh of course." Which is that, you gave your developers the tools they needed to do their jobs which at the time included AWS before the announcement of VMware and AWS partnership. AWS doesn't change their data center for anyone so the value that obviously you guys are bringing to them and their customers speaks volumes. AWS has also said, Andy on stage says, he tries to go out and talk to customers every week. I joked that before the start of this that every LinkedIn request I get, you're already a connection of that LinkedIn request. How important is it for you to talk to your internal staff as well as your external customers to get the pulse of this operations and developer movement going and infused into the culture of VMware. >> Well Keith I appreciate the kind words. When we decided who to partner with and how to partner with them, when we had made the announcement last year, we went and talked to our customers. We're very customer and client focused as are they. And we began to hear a very proportional to the market share stats, AWS most prominently and every one of our customers were telling us the same thing that both Andy and us were asking which is "Why couldn't you get the best of both worlds? "You're making a choice." Now we had a little bit of an impediment in the sense that we had tried to build a public cloud with vCloud air but once we made the decision that we were getting out of that business, divested it, took care of those clients, the door really opened up and we started to test pulse with a couple of customers under NDA. What if you were to imagine a partnership between us and Amazon, what would you think? And man, I can tell you, a couple of these customers some of who are on stage at the time of the announcement, fell off their chair. This would be huge. This is going to be like a, one customer said it's gonna be like a Berlin Wall moment, the US and the Soviet Union getting together. I mean the momentum building up to it. So now what we've got to do, it's been a year later, we've shipped, released, the momentum still is pretty high there, we've gotta now start to really make this actionable, get customers excited. Most of my meetings here have been with customers. System integrators that came from one of the largest SIs in the world. They're seeing this as a big part of the momentum. Our booth here is pretty crowded. We've got to make sure now that the customers can start realizing the value of VMware and AWS as a build. The other thing that as you mentioned that both sides did very explicitly in the design of this was to ensure that each other's engineering teams were closely embedded. So it's almost like having an engineering team of VMware embedded inside Amazon and an engineering team of Amazon embedded inside VMware. That's how closely we work together. Never done before in the history of both companies. I don't think they've ever done it with anybody else, certainly the level of trying. That represents the trust we had with each other. >> Sanjay, I gotta ask you, we were talking with some folks last night, I was saying that you were coming on theCube and I said, "What should I ask Sanjay? "I want to get him a zinger, "I want to get him off as messaging." Hard to do but we'll try. They said, "Ask him about security." So I gotta ask you, because security has been Amazon's kryptonite for many years. They've done the work in the public sector, they've done the work in the cloud with security and it's paying off for them. Security still needs to get solved. It's a solvable problem. What is your stance on security now that you got the private and hybrid going on with the public? Anything change? I know you got the AirWatch, you're proud of that but what else is going on? >> I think quietly, VMware has become one of the prominent brands that have been talked about in security. We had a CIO survey that I saw recently in network security where increasingly, customers are talking about VMware because of NSX. When I go to the AirWatch conference I look at the business cards of people and they're all in the security domain of endpoint security. What we're finding is that, security requires a new view of it where, it can't be 6000 vendors. It feels like a strip mall where every little shop has got its boutique little thing that you ought to buy and when you buy a car you expect a lot of the things to be solved in the core aspects of the car as opposed to buying a lot of add-ons. So our point of view first off is that security needs to baked into the infrastructure, and we're gonna do that. With products like NSX that bake it into the data center, with products like AirWatch and Workspace ONE that bake it into the endpoint and with products like App Defence that even take it deeper into the core of the hypervisor. Given that we've begun to also really focus our education of customers on higher level terms, I was talking to a CIO yesterday who was educating his board on what are some of the key things in cyber security they need to worry about. And the CIO said this to me, the magic word that he is training all of his board members on, is segmentation. Micro segmentation segmentation is a very simple concept that NSX sort of pioneered. We'll finding that now to become very relevant. Same-- >> So that's paying off? >> Paying up big time. WannaCry and Petya taught us that, patching probably is a very important aspect of what people need to do. Encryption, you could argue a lot of what happened in the Equifax may have been mitigated if the data been encrypted. Identity, multi-factor authentication. We're seeing a couple of these key things being hygiene that we can educate people better on in security, it really is becoming a key part to our stories now. >> And you consider yourself top-tier security provider-- >> We are part of an ecosystem but our point of view in security now is very well informed in helping people on the data center to the endpoint to the cloud and helping them with some of these key areas. And because we're so customer focused, we don't come in at this from the way a traditional security players providing access to and we don't necessarily have a brand there but increasingly we're finding with the success of NSX, Workspace ONE and the introduction of new products like App Defense, we're building a point of security that's highly differentiated and unique. >> Sanjay big acquisition in SD-WAN space. Tell us how does that high stress security player and this acquisition in SD-WAN, the edge, the cloud plays into VMware which is traditionally a data center company, SD-wAN, help us understand that acquisition. >> Good question. >> As we saw the data center and the cloud starting to develop that people understand pretty well. We began to also hear and see another aspect of what people were starting to see happen which was the edge and increasingly IoT is one driver of that. And our customers started to say to us, "Listen if you're driving NSX and its success "in the data center, wouldn't it be good "to also have a software-defined wide area network strategy "that allows us to take that benefit of networking, "software-defined networking to the branch, to the edge?" So increasingly we had a choice. Do we build that ourselves on top of NSX and build out an SD-WAN capability which we could have done or do we go and look at our customers? For example we went and talked to telcos like AT&T and they said the best solution out there is a company that can develop cloud. We start to talk to customers who were using them and we analyzed the space and we felt it would be much faster for us to buy rather than build a story of a software-defined networking story that goes from the data center to the branch. And VeloCloud was well-regarded, I would view this, it's early and we haven't closed the acquisition as yet but once we close this, this has all the potential to have the type of transformative effect like in AirWatch or in nai-si-ra-hat in a different way at the edge. And we think the idea of edge core which is the data center and cloud become very key aspects of where infrastructure play. And it becomes a partnership opportunity. VeloCloud will become a partnership opportunity with the telcos, with the AWSs of the world and with the traditional enterprises. >> So bring it all together for us. Data center, NSX, Edge SD-WAN, AirWatch capability, IOT, how does all of that connect together? >> You should look at IoT and Edge being kind of related topics. Data center and the core being related topics, cloud being a third and then of course the end-user landscape and the endpoint being where it is, those would be the four areas. Data center being the core of where VMware started, that's always gonna be and our stick there so to speak is that we're gonna take what was done in hardware and do it in software significantly cheaper, less complex and make a lot of money there. But then we will help people bridge into the cloud and bridge into the edge, that's the core part of our strategy. Data center first, cloud, edge. And then the end user world sits on top of all of that because every device today is either a phone, a tablet or a laptop and there's no vendor that can manage the heterogeneous landscape today of Apple devices, Google devices, Apple being iOS and Mac, Android, Chrome in the case of Google, or Windows 10 in the case of Microsoft. That heterogeneous landscape, managing and securing that which is what AirWatch and Workspace ONE does is uniquely ours. So we think this proposition of data center, cloud, edge and end-user computing, huge opportunity for VMware. >> Can we expect to see NSX as the core of that? >> Absolutely. NSX becomes to us as important as ESX was, in fact that's kind of why we like the name. It becomes the backbone and platform for everything we do that connects the data center to the cloud, it's a key part of BMC for example. It connects the data center to the edge hence what we've done with SD-WAN and it's also a key part to what connects to the end user world. When you connect network security with what we're doing with AirWatch which we announced two years ago, you get magic. We think NSX becomes a fundamental and we're only in the first or second or third inning of software-defined networking. We have a few thousand customers okay of NSX, that's a fraction of the 500,000 customers of VMware. We think we can take that in and the networking market is an 80 billion dollar market ripe for a lot of innovation. >> Sanjay, I want to get your perspective on the industry landscape. Amazon announcing results, I laid it out on my Forbes story and in Silicon Angle all the coverage, go check it out but basically is, Amazon is going so fast the developers are voting with their workloads so their cloud thing is the elastic cloud, they check, they're winning and winning. You guys own the enterprised data center operating model which is private cloud I buy that but it's all still one cloud IoT, I like that. The question is how do you explain it to the people that don't know what's going on? Share your color on what's happening here because this is a historic moment. It's a renaissance-- >> I think listen, when I'm describing this to my wife or to my mother or somebody who's not and say "There's a world of tech companies "that applies to the consumer." In fact when I look at my ticker list, I divide them on consumer and enterprise. These are companies like Apple and Google and Facebook. They may have aspirations in enterprise but they're primarily consumer companies and those are actually what most people can relate to and those are now some of the biggest market cap companies in the world. When you look at the enterprise, typically you can divide them into applications companies, companies like Salesforce, SAP and parts of Oracle and others, Workday and then companies in infrastructure which is where companies like VMware and AWS and so on fit. I think what's happening is, there's a significant shift because of the cloud to a whole new avenue of spending where every company has to think about themselves as a technology company. And the same thing's happening with mobile devices. Cloud mobile security ties many of those conversations together. And there are companies that are innovators and there companies that you described earlier John at the start of this show that's going to become extinct. >> My thesis is this, I want to get your reaction to this. I believe a software renaissance is coming and it's gonna be operated differently and you guys are already kind of telegraphing your move so if that's the case, then a whole new guard is gonna be developing, he calls it the new garden. Old guard he refers to kind of the older guards. My criticism of him was is that he put a Gartner slide up there, that is as says old guard as you get. Andy's promoting this whole new guard thing yet he puts up the Gartner Magic Quadrant for infrastructure as a service, that's irrelevant to his entire presentation, hold on, the question is about you know I'm a Gardner-- >> Before I defend him. >> They're all guard, don't defend him too fast. I know the buyers see if they trust Gartner, maybe not. The point is, what are the new metrics? We need new metrics because the cloud is horizontally scalable. It's integrated. You got software driving decision making, it's not about a category, it's about a fabric. >> I'm not here to... I'm a friend of Andy, I love what he talked about and I'm not here to defend or criticize Gartner but what I liked about his presentation was, he showed the Gartner slide probably about 20 minutes into the presentation. He started off by his metrics of revenue and number of customers. >> I get that, show momentum, Gartner gives you like the number one-- >> But the number of customers is what counts the most. The most important metric is adoption and last year he said there was about a million customers this year he said several million. And if it's true that both startups and enterprises are adopting this, adopting, I don't mean just buying, there is momentum here. Irrespective, the analysts talking about this should be, hopefully-- >> Alright so I buy the customer and I've said that on theCube before, of course and Microsoft could say, "We listen to customers too and we have a zillion customers "running Office 365." Is that really cloud or fake cloud? >> At the end of the day, at the end of the day, it's not a winner take all market to one player. I think all of these companies will be successful. They have different strategies. Microsoft's strategy is driven from Office 365 and some of what they can do in Windows into Azure. These folks have come up from the bottom up. Oracle's trying to come at it from a different angle, Google's trying to come at a different angle and the good news is, all of these companies have deep pockets and will invest. Amazon does have a head start. They are number one in the market. >> Let me rephrase it. Modern applications could be, I'll by the customer workload argument if it's defined as a modern app. Because Oracle could say I got a zillion customers too and they win on that, those numbers are pretty strong so is Microsoft. But to me the cloud is showing a new model. >> Absolutely. >> So what is in your mind good metric to saying that's a modern app, that is not. >> I think when you can look at the modern companies like the Airbnb, the Pinterest, the Slacks and whoever. Some of them are going to make a decision to do their own infrastructure. Facebook does not put their IaaS on top of AWS or Azure or Google, they built their own data is because they can afford to do and want to do it. That's their competitive advantage. But for companies who can't, if they are building their apps on these platforms that's one element. And then the traditional enterprises, they think about their evolution. If they're starting to adopt these platforms not just to migrate old applications to new ones where VMware fits in, all building new cloud native applications on there, I think that momentum is clear. When was the last time you saw a company go from zero to 18 billion in 10 years, 10, 12 years that he's been around? Or VMware or Salesforce go from zero to eight billion in the last 18 years? This phenomenon of companies like Salesforce, VMware and AWS-- >> It's all the scale guys, you gotta get to scale, you gotta have value. >> This is unprecedented in the last five to 10 years, unprecedented. These companies I believe are going to be the companies of the tech future. I'm not saying that the old guard, but if they don't change, they won't be the companies that people talk about. The phenomenon of AWS just going from zero to 18 is, I personally think-- >> And growing 40% on that baseline. >> Andy's probably one of the greatest leaders of our modern time for his role in making that happen but I think these are the companies that we watch carefully. The companies that are growing rapidly, that our customers are adopting them in the hundreds of thousands if not millions, there's true momentum there. >> So Sanjay, data has gravity, data is also the new oil. We look at what Andy has in his arsenal, all of the date of that's in S3 that he can run, all his MI and AI services against, that's some great honey for this audience. When I look at VMware, there's not much of a data strategy, there's a security the data in transit but there's not a data strategy. What does VMware's data strategy to help customers take math without oil? >> We've talked about it in terms of our data analytics what we're doing machine learning and AI. We felt this year given so much of what we had to announce around security software-defined networking, the branch, the edge, putting more of that into VMworld which is usually our big event where we announce this stuff would have just crowded our people. But we began to lay the seeds of what you'll start to hear a lot more in 2018. Not trying to make a spoiler alert for but we acquired this company Wavefront that does, next-generation cloud native metrics and analytics. Think of it as like, you did that with AppDynamics in the old world, you're doing this with Wavefront in the new world of cloud native. We have really rethought through how, all the data we collect, whether it's on the data center or in the endpoint could be mined and become a telemetry that we actually use. We bought another company Apteligent, formerly called Criticism, that's allowing us to do that type of analytics on the endpoint. You're gonna see a couple of these moves that are the breadcrumbs of what we'll start announcing a lot more of a comprehensive analytics strategy in 2018, which I think we're very exciting. I think the other thing we've been cautious to do is not AI wash, there's a lot of cloud washing and machine learning washing that happened to companies-- >> They're stopping a wave on-- >> Now it's authentic, now I think it's out there when, when Andy talks about all they're doing in AI and machine learning, there's an authenticity to it. We want to be in the same way, have a measured, careful strategy and you will absolutely hear from us a lot more. Thank you for bringing it up because it's something that's on our radar. >> Sanjay we gotta go but thanks for coming and stopping by theCube. I know you're super busy and great to drop in and see you. >> Always a pleasure and thanks-- >> Congratulations-- >> And Keith good to talk to you again. >> Congratulations, all the success you're having with the show. >> We're doing our work, getting the reports out there, reporting here on theCube, we have two sets, 45,000 people, exclusive coverage on siliconangle.com, more data coming, every day, we have another whole day tomorrow, big night tonight, the Pub Crawl, meetings, VCs, I'll be out there, we'll be out there, grinding it out, ear to the ground, go get those stories and bring it to you. It's theCube live coverage from AWS reInvent 2017, we're back with more after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE! Covering AWS Reinvent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> And we are back live here in Las Vegas. We are at the Sands as Reinvent day two wraps up. AWS here for four days and we'll be here live again tomorrow, by the way on theCUBE continuing our coverage. We're wrapping up here today saving the best for last. No doubt about that. Stu Miniman and John Walls were joined by a couple of folks from SoftwareONE. Mike Gersten, immediately to my right. Global Innovation and Strategy. Mike, good to see you, sir. >> Yeah, likewise, thanks for having us. >> And Lawrence Schwartz on the far side there. The CMO at SoftwareONE, Lawrence, good to see you. >> Pleasure to see you again. >> Tell us a little bit, first off, about not only what you do but why you're here. >> Sure, yeah. So, SoftwareONE, we're in the business of making sure that people are spending the right amount of money on their software. Not too much, and you know making sure they're not underspending either. So all that optimization to spend. We also help customer implement their technology. We're at this show because we help customers do that in a Cloud environment so obviously natural to be at AWS. We help them do that on premise as well and we find a lot of our customers here. People we've been talking to for a long time. New people as well trying to move over. So it's a great environment for us. We kind of see what's going on in the innovation side from AWS too so... >> And so Mike, what do you make of the show in general. I'm just curious about your take, two day take. We've been here a couple of days. By now it's sunk in a little bit, I would think. >> It's incredible. You know, we were here last year and there was roughly 30,000 attendees. We're here again, there's over 45,000 attendees. I walk the floor here, I see dozens of providers that I didn't see here last year. Some of them are one guy with a six foot table, who's got some pretty interesting technology. So I would say that the pace with which this ecosystem is growing isn't showing any signs of slowing down. >> One of the things we've been hearing for a while is, boy, Amazon keeps innovating but it's been adding to complexity. The Amazon catalog itself, you know, 30,000 line items there. Then you add on top of that the marketplace and I'm like I'm pretty sure it's infinite at this point. And marketplace has been, you know, a huge driver in growth. I have to expect that marketplace impacted your business quite a bit in a good way, I would think. >> Yeah, for us that's probably one of the most exciting announcements that we've heard this week is around the marketplace specifically. We have a 30 year history selling software so to see now AWS taking what they did in the online retail business and in essence doing it for software in the marketplace is a good opportunity for us to connect our global catalog to their global catalog and provide a much wider range of software options for customers. >> And Mike, I wonder if I could... Can I ask you? Explain to our audience that might not have been in the keynote, gone to a break, what is it about this announcement that is so special from Amazon? So today they have about 4,000 or a little bit over 4,000 applications that sit in the marketplace and the idea is that any customer ought to be able to go up to the marketplace and with the click of a button, procure some software, have it put into a, maybe a reserved instance or some hosted infrastructure from Amazon and then be off to the races. No configuration, no support, no installation. >> Yeah, that was my tongue in cheek "so it's an infinite marketplace." >> It's an infinite-- >> As of today, right? Lawrence, one of the things we've been kind of wrestling with the last few years is this term, multi-Cloud. We hear an update from Andy every year as to how they look at it. Of course, I think it's, "everything is everything" is Amazon >> Right, right, yeah. and of course I think they've made an announcement about everything. And we still have a couple of days left. How are customers, you know, your customers looking at that multi Cloud, what are you seeing? Give us a little insight as to... and how does SoftwareONE help? >> Yeah, what's interesting for us is because that's what we see all the time, and we were talking about this a little bit beforehand and all of the customers that we have, we have tens of thousands of customers, we don't have any real conversations where people are talking about a single Cloud that they're working with, right. They're working with multiple. Maybe they're more in one today than another, but they're kind of looking at multiple solutions. So it's part of the business of what they do. And in a lot of cases it's just another extension of what's happening, you know, on premise today or in the data center. And so they always have to think about that. So, it's a part of it. There's lots of reasons for them to kind of go into that multi Cloud environment. Some of it might be for redundancy, some of it for flexibility on contracting. Some of it is for things like GDPR where they're worried about where their data sits and some of the local requirements. So it's part of the conversations that we always have and it's good to see some of the solutions that they're doing here where they think about that and they've really thought about how different ways customers can go in there and look at it, a really dispersed environment, so... >> So I mean how does the... In a multi Cloud world, I mean, how does that changing in terms of people optimizing their software, making these decisions that you're trying to steer, you're trying to advise them on. What's the impact that that's having kind of on what they're deciding to do going forward? >> There's a couple of things. First of all, I couldn't agree more with Lawrence. Tens of thousands of customers. I can't think of a time where I've talked to a customer that wasn't multi Cloud. So it's almost I would say all customers are multi Cloud. The challenge for our customers is how do you take all the different Cloud environments you're working with that use different vernacular, bring it into one system that then is using a common language to, you know, a common language around the resources that sit in those Cloud environments. A common language around how you map those resources to your organizational structure or how you manage your business. So that you're looking at your Cloud resources, you're planning for them financially but in the context of your business, using a common vernacular across all Cloud providers. That's a difficult thing to do if you're just going to a point solution from one of the publishers. >> And so why do that? I mean, why not simplify? Why not, why not just keep it in one environment or maybe two environment? Why branch out? Why take it to a different sphere? >> Well, I think, Lawrence touched on some of the reasons which is some of it's price Some of it is I've got legacy applications that don't work in one Cloud infrastructure but will work in another Cloud infrastructure. Some of it is security. Some of it is just simply I don't have any control over it. People are acquiring Cloud infrastructure via credit card within departments. You can't say, "You have to use Amazon "or you have to use Microsoft." You're not controlling that. >> You know we've talked before. SoftwareONE has a different legacy than say, what I'd say the Cloud management providers that are out there. But some of the things are very similar that you're attacking because everybody, I think, has identified this multi Cloud and it's the big elephant and everybody's trying to take bites out of it. Can you maybe give us a little bit of a compare contrast about... Think there's all these companies out there that start with Cloud and have one or two other words with them. How's SoftwareONE? What's similar and what's different? >> Yeah, I think when you look at that, there's certainly a lot of vendors here do a good job of starting to think about that. But a lot of vendors have started with the Cloud and kind of built around that and for companies that are born in the Cloud and that's all they focus on, that might be a great solution. But a lot of the enterprises that we deal with, our larger customers, that mix of what's on premise and what's in the Cloud, is still a minority is going to be in the Cloud. It is gonna be definitely less than 50 percent for a lot of the companies. Even smaller for some of the big places. So if you get really really good visibility, even in a multi Cloud environment, on only 20 or 30 percent of your environment, then you're not getting the whole big picture of what's happening, particularly on the expense side and where you're spending the money. So what we bring to the table that's a little bit unique here is we come from the history of doing this for many years on premise. We give a good visibility into what they're doing, how their assets are being utilized, giving them thoughts and contributions on how they price it and what they buy to it. So we give them that good view of on premise as well as what's happening in the Cloud. So now when they make decisions, they're getting that wholistic view. So marketing might come in there and they might have a software catalog that's part in Cloud and part of it's on premise. Their CRM might be on premise. So if they're looking at, What's my overall budget and spend there? How do I consolidate it? How do I make it better? You just can't look at the SAS applications and what's in the Cloud or what's in Amazon. You've really gotta get that full picture and that's what we can bring to bare. And the other thing is, a lot of the solutions that you see, a lot of the vendors are very focused on one particular country or environment. SoftwareONE is really spread out across the globe. We're in 80 plus countries. So when you're looking at okay, now I've gotta figure out who's buying whatever in Switzerland and the UK and the US, how do I simplify procurement for it? How do I get visibility across all of that? I'm prim in the Cloud. That becomes a much more complex question and those are the things that we can help enterprises with that's a little bit above and beyond what you might see on some of the kind of pure Cloud focused players. >> Mike, I had a interesting session I got to sit in with Amazon talking about how they are helping customers with innovation. And one of the things they put forth is, you know, companies have usually hundreds or thousands of applications but at least the premise they put forth is there's usually a handful of companies that are the strategic ones. There's maybe a next tier that are kind of important and then there's whole lots of other stuff. Maybe they're not all applications But they're putting out. But they're coming to Amazon and saying, "You're innovating. "You're moving fast. "How do we do that? "How do we help with the digital transformation?" How does SoftwareONE get involved in kind of the innovation, helping them along that journey? >> It's true that we work with over 9,000 publishers and I would say that the top seven or eight make up the lion's share of both our revenue and our customer's spend. However, if you take the what we call the tail end spend, if you take not just those top tier providers and not the middle tier but all of those small little applications they're using departmentally, they don't seem to add up to a lot when you look at them each department or each geography. When you bring them together for the enterprise, it's a large spend and it's very hard for our customers to get control of that. So when we talk about innovation, I would not suggest that you innovate just around the top five to 10 publishers. You have to be able to provide a cost management solution across the entire portfolio for customers, across the entire life cycle, that's on premises, that's multi Cloud, hybrid Cloud, and that's from acquisition through disposition and that includes the tail end spend. >> So is a lot of that when you give the visibility into the client as to what they're doing across the enterprise? They might not realize how deeply involved they are and that could give them leverage for pricing and then the lend. >> The best example is SAS Today, because SAS has enabled shadow IT in a way that we've never seen. Now people are just buying whatever application they want in their department with their credit card. Well, the IT department, the procurement department, the compliance group, they have no idea where that spend is coming from. They haven't discovered those unknown SAS subscriptions and you can't budget for it. You can't manage what you can't see. >> What's the shocker then? I mean, when you come in, just in general, to a business, what's the eye opening moment for them you think in terms of what you're uncovering or what you're showing them about their own process that you think they would know but you give them a little aha. >> Yeah, I think one example... we work with a lot of the companies, but one not that far from here. We work with LA Metro, the county and what they do there and on transportation. And they were looking at their environment and their spend in the Cloud and once we gave them our platform to kind of see what was going on, give them full visibility on what's happening with their VMs, what's happening in the Cloud, they saw that they're basically spending two to three X what they needed to before hand. Right before they really took a look, a good look at it. I think they were surprised by that, but it was a really good opportunity to take a good hard look at what VMs I might need to spend down, what ones do I need to throttle, what ones aren't being active, and again, you want to make sure you're right sized for what you're doing, instead of just over provisioning and kind of taking a guess at it if you will and overspending at the end of the day. >> Interestingly enough, just to add on to that, I was talking to a CIO that we work with maybe a month ago. We surveilled all of our customers on their spend. By and large, most of them know they're overspending on software. The estimates go anywhere between 25 and 35 percent, especially in the Cloud. But they know they're overspending. So some of them don't... they just can't solve the problem so they just budget for the overspend. So I was meeting with her and I said to her, "Do you know you're overspending?" She said, "Yeah, we're definitely overspending about 30%." I said, "What are you doing about that?" She says, "I just put it into my budget." I says, "That's crazy. Why wouldn't you want to solve that problem?" And the irony is that she's actually the CIO for a tax and accounting firm. (laughter) But they're just burying it. So, yeah. >> Yeah, that is funny. So, Andy Jassy did quite an extensive keynote. Lots of announcements. Kind of gave you the wild card. Something that jumped out at you, you wanna build on, any announcements or any pieces of Andy's presentation. >> Yeah, I think overall he kept talking about innovation and what they're doing. I think for us, we were talking a little bit about the marketplace. But you also see things they're doing on the database side. Are they strengthening aurora? Making post gray more attractive as an alternative to some of the legacy systems. And that complements well what we see as a migration and people wanna do, right. If you really strengthen the offering, it makes it more attractive and then certainly makes it interesting for the ecosystem which we're part of to help contribute that for people to move over there. I also really liked his analogy there. He kept going back to the musicians and kind of the relationship they have or thinking that compared to developers. Having all the instruments that you need to kind of build what you want and having that flexibility of choice and I think it's a great analogy. I think the flip side to that is: Hey, if you've got a jam session here and you're bringing in all of these different instruments: a guitar player, a tuba player, whatever it is to build this up, you also have to look at what do you have in house? You probably already have a pretty good size orchestra. Some of it might be legacy. Some people might be playing the harpsichord, the recorder, whatever it is. And you've got to figure out how does, In some cases, how do I blend that together? If I'm bringing them in, is it just for a jam session or do I need them here for a full set or for like a year long concert? And if you're not careful, you could end up spending a lot of money on bringing in all of these different players and I think that's an interesting way to think about this is it's great to have the flexibility but how do you make sure you have the visibility, the cost controls, so that doesn't overdo or overspend what you wanna do to get that creativity that you need. >> Everybody's gotta play in the same key too, right? Alright, let's all get on the same page Same page of music. >> So SoftwareONE is a global company. I know you both do a lot of travel. Give us kind of... We're here in the center of AWS. 43,000 devoted, super excited, passionate people but what are you seeing out there in the globe? Where does AWS specifically, Public Cloud in general, still need to push? What are some of the concerns, challenges, things that you see out there? >> Geographically? >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean certainly in APAC there's the challenge that any Cloud infrastructure provider is gonna face and that's Jolicloud. Jolicloud is a fairly dominant player in China and Japan, and they have a good presence throughout APAC. I think that AWS is making strong strides in Asia. Clearly the market leader worldwide. Everybody is chasing them. With over a thousand features and enhancements announced just within the last year, the pricing changes happening at such rapid fire that I think it's difficult for the other guys to keep up with them. So I'd say there's no question they're the market leader globally. Asia Pacific is probably their biggest challenge. >> Lawrence? >> I concur with a lot of that. I mean, we've seen in our own company a lot of activities starting in India and even in South America. Some good relationships with AWS. Some early adoption there. But yeah, I think those comments on APAC, I think you've got some good experiences there. >> Well, gentlemen, thanks for joining us. We appreciate the time here on theCUBE. Good luck with the rest of the show and I'll be kind of curious to see where this goes. The vibe is good, right? >> The vibe's unbelievable. >> Fantastic. >> And you've got a big runway so good luck with that. >> Thank you. >> Alright. >> Alright gentlemen. That's it for our coverage here on theCUBE. Today, day two here at Reinvent. Back with more live tomorrow morning 11:00 Pacific time. We'll be with you 2:00 on the East Coast and we'll see you right here. Until then have a good night. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS reInvent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage, live, in Las Vegas, 45,000 people here on the ground, for Amazon Web Services reInvent 2017. Their annual conference. Our fifth year doing it, I got two sets, two cubes, a lot of action. Day two of three days of wall to wall coverage. My next guest, Tom Kemp, CEO, of Centrify, security company out of California in Silicon Valley, leader in identity based security in the cloud, on-prem, big business growing, fast growing startup in the area. Good to see you. >> Yeah it's great to be here again. >> Security has been Amazon's kryptonite for many years. They've done their work, their paying their dues, they're checking the boxes. Certainly we see that on the federal side, public sector. Great success, Teresa Carlson, has done an amazing job. It's been fun watch her go from an outcast to, in the marketplace, "Ah, we don't trust the cloud", to winning. They've done the work. Security, you've gotta do the work. >> Yeah, I mean, they've done a great job of evangelizing the shared responsibiloty model where they clearly identify, "Hey, this is what we do", and then, "This is what the customer needs to do." So it's actually a very nice model that they offer that vendors such as us can slot into. >> And they move so fast but again, security is one of those things, you can't fake it til you make it. Right? (Tom laughs) You can't make it til you make it. Which means, it's hard. What are you guys doing with Amazon now? What's your story here for Centrify? >> Yeah, we're doing a couple of things. So the first thing is that we do privilege management. I mean the reality is is that the keys to the kingdom are in the AWS console in terms of the billing systems, firing up servers, shutting down servers et cetera. A lot of the more recent hacks have been because people have gotten the access to those keys of those systems as well. So we help lockdown the AWS environment and then we also help lockdown the actual servers being deployed on EC2. We provide multifactor authentication et cetera. The other thing that we do is and what we announced just the other day is we've actually moved our platform over to AWS. So before we ran on at Azure, can I say that at this, ah? >> John: That's fine. >> It's okay, yeah, just joking. >> All fair in love and sharing the cloud. >> So now we have a production cloud on AWS and we've also integrated in the marketplace. So there's SaaS billing that people can get as well, which actually is a very unique thing that AWS offers that the other cloud providers don't do. >> Alright, so I gotta ask you, obviously, to me, super exciting show because some of the announcements are really kind of cool and sexy, and some are under the hood geeky, like Lambda. And then you got the cool AI stuff happening, whether it's VR, AR, or recognition, all these cool machine learning, democratized toolkits. So does this help you? I mean Lambda server lists is a dream for a developer. Just, "Oh my God, I don't have to worry about anything. "What's a local host? "I don't need to know what a load balancer is." Does that help you guys or not? >> Yeah it does, I mean the reality is is that the amount of servers and applications, be it server or server-less, the amount of applications, the users that are connecting to it, it just adds more to the potential complexity. And we can, through the power of identity, provide a control plane to give people identity driven security and really allow people to move-- >> But it doesn't replace us. My point is, I guess, if you're locking down servers, this is a value right? >> Yeah. >> EC2 instances. But if the developers aren't using EC2 instances 'cause it's server-less. Are you guys transparent, are you abstracted away? >> So we also then, then integrate into the application and then help facilitate security for the actual users themselves. But look the reality of the situation is is that people are always gonna have a hybrid environment. They still have on-premises, which users have to access that environment. They're gonna have the cloud environment. And it's gonna be heterogenous. So AWS is a clear leader in the cloud but you're also gonna have Azure, Google, and then the SaaS applications as well, which are gonna be used in conjunction with the custom applications people are building. So the one constant-- >> I've been saying, I've been saying this for years, the specialty cloud is a big market. Oracle's a specialty cloud, Microsoft's a specialty cloud, 'cause they have apps for them. They can be different clouds. Multi-cloud is what's coming, would you agree? >> Yeah, and the reality is as companies go through digital transformation they're gonna open up more and more of their applications to more and more users. They're gonna be more and more devices, and that's just gonna lead to identity sprawl, more and more passwords that people have to deal with as well. And that's why in a world in which-- >> How bad is that problem? 'Cause that's a huge problem, at least in my mind. Identity sprawl, explain what that is and how bad is it? And what are the consequences if it's not fixed? >> Well look the reality is 80% of breaches nowadays involve compromised credentials. I mean we had the whole election, Podesta, the DNC, the recent hack of HBO, you had Sony. It always tied into people stealing credentials and people having too many credentials, sharing credentials, et cetera. So the problem that we face as consumers in terms of having too many user names and passwords has now entered into the actual enterprise and we're now in a situation that, yeah, there's an app for that but that means that there's a password for that. So IT is having a hard time controlling who can access what while end users are just dealing with too many user names and passwords as well. So you have identity sprawl, it's difficult to provision access. And then now you have IoT coming onboard and those devices need an identity unto themselves. And probably the thing that excites me most about some of today's announcements is what AWS is doing with IoT. Some pretty cool stuff. >> I mean I think IoT is the trend, AI and IoT, because, to me the data center, and this might be a little bit over the top, but I'll say it anyway. I think private cloud is real, the way Wikibon talks about it but it's still cloud and the cloud looks at these endpoints as edge devices. So a data center is just an IoT device, a big one. >> Yeah. >> Or, a series of devices connected to the network which connect to the cloud. I mean if it's operating as a cloud what's the difference? Private and public. >> Yeah, no, I, I, I-- >> IoT has gotta be connected. That's where identity could be helpful. >> Identity, I mean, 'cause look, every device has an identity beyond just an IP address. I mean some of the attacks have even taken over IoT devices and then pointed them against websites and brought those websites down as well. So users have multiple identities. Devices have identities unto themselves so you've got this kinda n-by-m, you know, situation where you multiply the number of users times the number of devices, and we're told digital transformation, more and more users are coming online connecting to applications. So I think that's a, it's just a great market to be in. >> Tom, great to have you on theCUBE, congratulations on your business growth. What's your secret sauce? We'll end this segment by you just taking a minute to describe to the folks watching why are you doing so good, what's your secret sauce, what are the tailwinds for you, why the success? >> Well the tailwinds are, first of all, identity has become the top attack vector. It's now involved, compromised credentials stolen at NEs is now involved in over 80% of all breaches. And the other tailwind is the whole move to the cloud that just says, introduces password sprawl. And we're very unique in the market in that we can secure both end users and their identities but we can also secure the privileged accounts that are built into the infrastructures of service. The AWS, EC2, IAM-- >> John: The critical resources. >> Yeah, and we do this in a hybrid environment. So, yes, people are aggressively moving to the cloud but you know and I know that still, what, 70, 80% of IT is still on-prem, and it's gonna be a mixed hybrid environment. And we offer both software and cloud services to secure both end users as well as privileged accounts in that environment. >> Alright, the bottom line, the AWS cloud phenomenon. Describe it in a sentence. >> In a sentence? Oh, it's just, the complete consolidation of all IT in a single platform. I mean, it's amazing that every year they announce another couple a hundred new brand new services as well. So it's just like a phenomena that I've never seen before in terms of a vendor aggressively able to come out with new capabilities and deliver more and more features. >> Cloud as an operating system that's what I always say. And I can see it coming together, and they're staying on their track. I gotta give Andy Jassy credit, even though I busted his chops by putting the Gartner slide on there, because that's old guard technically, doesn't match his presentation, so he's gotta fix that. They stay on their line, they're not wavering. They are mission focused. Changing the game, adding value for customers. >> And they're thinking about new app scenarios and I think it was brilliant that, take IoT, there's so many different flavors of operating systems for IoT. They're saying, "Hey, we're gonna come out "with a standard operating system "that you can leverage. "And we're gonna provide device management, "and we're gonna tie it back into the platform." So they're gonna capture the, they're trying to capture the edge. And the good news is stuff like that does provide opportunities for vendors such as Centrify. >> And they surround themselves with a great ecosystem. You guys are doing great in there. I know you're growing but you're soon to be bigger. But Intel, they're doing great with Intel. Intel gets a lift off this, more compute, everywhere. >> Absolutely. >> So even if they, they kind of have to split some of the business, whatever they do, who knows what happens there but Intel wins with this scenario. Amazon's not trying to eat the whole pie, they're sharing. They're sharing the wealth. And they do it, in the case of security again I go back to their shared responsibility model. It provides a great framework where it makes it very easy for vendors such as ourselves to say, "We play here, here, and here." So it makes it great to partner with and the ability for them to actually have SaaS based applications in their marketplace as well. And that's powerful, and no other of the cloud guys have a similar concept. Yeah, you could put AMIs on infrastructure as a service but to actually have a cloud based service tied into the billing system of AWS is incredibly powerful. We're very excited about being a part of that. >> And we will keep an eye on them on the open source side, certainly that's an area we're watching very carefully. Hey the developers love Amazon and that's a good thing. Now the enterprise love Amazon, public sector loves Amazon. Who doesn't love Amazon Web Services? We'll be following that very closely over the course of the next few months and next year, 2018. Of course live here in here in Las Vegas is AWS reInvent 2017. Back with more coverage after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering AWS Reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. (ambient music) >> We're back live here on the Cube, along with Stu Miniman, I am John Walls and we're live here right smack dab in the middle of the show floor. A giant show floor here at the Sands Expo between the Palazzo and the Venetian, Las Vegas. Reinvent AWS putting on a four day extravaganza. Keynotes this morning, they were jammed pack. The show floor continues to be just all a buzz with a lot of positive vibe and activity and here to talk about not only what's happening here but what's happening at CA Technologies is Sushil Kumar, who's the SVP of Product Management there, or an SVP. Sushil, nice to have you with us. Thanks for being here on the Cube. >> Thank you it is my pleasure, thanks for having me here. >> Let's talk about first off your idea about what's going on here, as far as the show goes, you said this particular event has a different feel to you than others you been at in the past. How so? >> Absolutely, you know, and that starts with the name itself, right? It's called Reinvent and what is very different about this show is this is all about creation, so all the conversation is about how can we use the latest and greatest technologies to build something new, right? And kudos to Amazon for creating that environment where they position themself as enabler rather than creators and the power of creation lies in masses, right, so it's amazing to see the energy and the creativity and truly it's infectious, right, so. >> So Sushil, it's interesting, I've seen a lot of AWS ads at airports. They're targeting, you know, their audience are builders and that's why I think exactly what you're saying. Want to hear what you're hearing from customers because you know, for some customers that's super exciting. You talk about the developer community. For some customers it's like wait, hold on, are they talking to me? Are they leaving me behind? I'm curious what you're hearing from the customer. >> You know that's a great question because look, we have been a 40 year old company and the only way you survive for so long is you constantly adapt yourself to the changing needs that customers have. And one of the biggest challenges that customers have today is around reinvention, right? Which is in, whether you call it digital transformation, whether you call it software-defined business, businesses across all industries and segments, they're all trying to reinvent and become as creative as, you know, some of the start-ups from Silicon Valley. And one of the biggest challenges that they are facing is how to go about that process, right? And we know a thing or two about that because we ourself have been a 40 year old company. So, our motto as a company is around helping our customers become modern software factories, which is all about how to become an agile and iterative, and essentially be obsessively focused around customer experience, because that's one thing, you know, people may have a lot of definitions of digital transformation, but one thing that separates Amazon and Netflix of the world is obsession on customer experience. And, we are playing a part, right? The whole model of software factory is about making these businesses much more customer-centric. And the part of business that I come from is all about how can we provide other customers the to ability to measure customer experience, use that information to improve their product and always constantly iterate so that they meet or exceed customer experience. So one of the products that we have is called Digital Experience Insights, right. It's a product that essentially provides a holistic overview of what I call the entire digital delivery chain, which starts all the way with the user's device, which could be a mobile device, could be web, all the way to the layers of business transactions, and then the maze of entrusted care, which may involve cloud, maybe more than one cloud, maybe even in some cases even mainframes, so that's another thing that we see customers struggling with because many times, as geeks, we tend to paint the picture black and white. Either you are modern or you are legacy. A lot of customers fall somewhere in the middle. And, you know, they are looking up to us to help successfully navigate that transformation. And that's exactly what we are focused on. That's why Amazon has been such a great partner. >> I want to, you've used the term reinvent a bunch, and when I think about the analytics space, we've gone through a bunch of waves here. Big data, one, lot of discussion, some mixed results from customers. Real renaissance in what's happening really in the analytics space. Amazon, of course, participating in that. What are you seeing, what's new at CA in working with AWS on that? >> You know, again, if you look at the problem that I described, you know, the problem statement is very simple. We all want to understand customer experience. We all want to put ourself in the shoes that customers have. We live in a world where the customer attention span is three seconds. If within three seconds, your page doesn't load, or something that they expect doesn't happen, you have lost that customer forever. But in order to solve that simple problem, which is to be proactive and, you know, and have empathy for customers, the challenge is that you need so much of data, right? You need data from the customer's handheld devices, you need data from all the servers, all the applications. You need log data, you need metric data, you need event data, and all of the sudden you realize that there is so much of data that the commercial way of monitoring, which around dashboard alerting, doesn't work anymore, right? What you truly need to do is to take all of these signals and automatically analyze to extract insight, that one or two actionable insight that helps you stay ahead of the curve. And that's all about analytics. In fact, I cannot think of a better use case for analytics than this whole digital experience management, because it's not that the customers haven't had these data points. They have had all the data points, but mostly they have been siloed, and like we saw this morning in Andy Jassy's announcement, the machine learning and AI field is constantly evolving, but the machines can only do so much unless you help feed them the data, right? And that's one of the things that we are trying to do with our operational intelligence solutions as well as Digital Experience Insight, is to bring all the data together, feed it to the machines, and algorithms, so that they can make sense out of that, and extract holistic insight that helps customers stay ahead of the curve. I'll give you three examples. For example, you know, we have a major broadcast partner, who did a mobile ad during the election time, and they needed to engage their customers better. They needed to understand what customers going through, and through the use of the application experience analytics, they were able to iterate applications and within three months their user retention increased three-folds. There's another customer which is a major broadcaster based out of Europe. They use our product to essentially get the data from the cycling events to provide their customers a very unique second screen experience. And that's I think the exciting part. As much as we all love our products and tools, it's all about what unique opportunity provide to our customers to innovate and succeed in the marketplace. >> Now, we've talked about reinvent as a term. It's necessary, right, but it's scary too. I mean, if I'm a company and I'm just moving along, my life's fine, right? I don't want to have to upset my applecart if I don't have to. And yet, when you bring these notions to me of new capabilities, of putting OI to practice for me, new analytics, my eyes start to roll a little bit, my head starts to spin a little bit. So what kind of hand holding do you have to do at the end of the day to show them that there is a better mousetrap, there is a better way, and that if you don't change, your success today is going to be gone tomorrow. >> And that's a really great question. I think what we see from all customers, almost all of them want to change. But, in oftentimes the magnitude of the exercise is so big that they're daunted. They don't even know where to start. >> John: Like where do I bite first? >> Yeah, and that's exactly what we're doing as part of a modern software factory, because this process involves cultural transformation. It's just not about tools. It's just not about technology. It's about how do you become iterative, right? Going from this year-long development process to being able to build something in two weeks, right? So that's why what we have done is to bring together a set of solutions that definitely includes our product but as a company, we have one of the largest agile coaches. So we essentially meet customers halfway in terms of handholding them, and doing everything that we can do to walk the journey with them step by step. The same thing we do in terms of providing customer the flexibility on how they want to navigate this journey. So for example, now we have both SASS as well as on-prem product. Some customers are ready to go all into cloud, other customers need time, and that's why we have adopted a very practical approach of maintaining a single code base. You can use our product in SASS, or we can deliver that product in a more private single-tenant mode, or we can give you the same code on-prem. And the whole goal is to walk the journey with you at the pace that you are comfortable. And I think of our partnership with Amazon, there is also of equally importance because customers now need to take their technology from Amazon, products from us, kind of marry it altogether and the more alliances, and the closer partnership that industry we can build, like we have with Amazon, the easier, it becomes an easier task for our customers. >> That's kind of how you characterize this show too, right? Collaborative, collegial, enabling. >> It's very collaborative, very collaborative, very energetic and very inspiring too. >> John: Alright, thanks for the time. >> Thank you so much, thank you. >> John: Thank you for being with us and good luck down the road. Thanks for being here on the Cube. >> My pleasure being here. >> We're back with more live coverage here from Reinvent. We're at AWS in Las Vegas and Stu and I will be back with more right after this. (ambient music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering AWS Reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. (bright digital tones) >> Welcome back, here we are live on the Cube, the Fleischer Broadcaster SiliconANGLE media. It's a pleasure to be with you live here at Reinvent. Day two of our coverage with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls and we're joined by David Gugick who is the senior, or vice president rather of product management at Cloudberry Lab. >> Cloudberry Lab, that's right. >> Good, good to see you. >> John: How you been? >> I am really good, it's been a great-- >> John: How's the show, how's this working for you? >> The show is great, these are our customers here, so everybody that walks by is, as you know we have something that can help them do the back up to the cloud. >> So first time, hey the Cloudberry guy's here. Come by and come see you. All right, let's talk about back up just in general. First off, I mean just the scene. Are people prepared, I mean are you seeing folks in whether it's enterprise or medium, small. Is everybody doing what they should be doing in terms of back up these days? >> I think most customers are moving in that direction. So there was some resistance years ago about using the cloud for back up. But as customers are getting really comfortable with the cloud, especially with Amazon S3, we see a lot of customers looking to start to move their back up architecture to the cloud. So they can de-invest in those old disk arrays and the old hardware that they have in their data centers that they're using for back up. And now they can leverage S3, which is great, because it helps with planning, they don't have to worry about their growth, because S3 can grow with them. They get built in disaster recovery because their back ups are now off site and they don't have to worry about some kind of disaster in their data center destroying their back ups along with their live data. So every year the business keeps growing and growing and growing as more of our customers start to embrace the cloud. >> You mentioned customers then I mean, so what are you hearing then from folks about if they've made this migration mentally at least and they're in the process of doing it within their own environments. What are you hearing from people about whether it's issues that they're now confronting or problems they want you to solve? >> That's a good question. I think we're hearing a lot this year unfortunately is ransom ware protection. Everybody sees all the ransom ware attacks that are going on and a lot of customers are very concerned about having their back ups in their own data centers. Where the ransom ware can actually see their back up files in addition to their live data. So what they really want to be able to do is have local back ups, but also have back ups in a place protected from any ransom ware attacks. The cloud is a perfect place for that. A majority of our customers use Amazon S3 for their back up storage and it kind of gives them exactly what they need, the protection they need. And that's actually something that we've added in the latest release of our Cloudberry back up product is built in ransom ware protection. So we can help customers detect when they're infected by this type of malware and protect their existing back up so they wouldn't get overwritten anyway, because of a ransom ware attempt. >> David, you mentioned customers trying to figure out where they put their data. Is they think something we've been, you know, looking out for a number of years, we hear Amazon talking about you know how they see a hybrid or multi-cloud world. Give your insight of what your customers, what they're seeing, how are they making that decision point is to where their data lives where their back ups live. We're a cloud agnostic back up vendor. So we have customers bring their cloud storage solution for back up to us. Now a majority of our customers are using Amazon AWS, not surprisingly, given the market share they have. But we don't provide the data center. And a lot of our customers love that, because they can leverage all of the regional access that's available for Amazon AWS. They can keep their EU assets in the EU, they can keep their US based assets in North America and the United States region. And that's important to them. And what they also want to know is that should they ever decide not to like us anymore, which we hope they won't, the back ups are in their own storage. They're theirs to keep. Now a lot of our customers are still backing up their own on prem data centers to the cloud. But a lot of our customers are now starting to migrate EC2, so that's what we hear from our customers. "Can you back up our EC2 assets "as easily as you're able to back up our assets "that are on premise." And of course the answer is yes. But we're happy to help those customers as well. >> Take us into that security discussion, you said ransom ware is a hot button. It's a challenging thing. There's lots of things that can trip people up. You know how does Cloudberry help that? >> Well we, what we do in the software without getting too technical, is we look for changes in encryption in the files. And if we detect a lot of files that are getting encrypted, that live data that's getting encrypted, we will make a note of it, notify the administrator and actually prevent any previous back ups from being deleted. Which could happen with normal retention settings. Customers may keep you know, three generations worth of back ups for 60 days, and then they may delete them. We want to make sure that those old back ups are protected if we encounter something. So we'll notify the admin and they'll get to review exactly what's going on. If they do have a problem, the back ups are already protected and they can do what's called the point in time restore to get all their live data back without any worry that it's gone. >> It's interesting as we have the transition to the cloud and as customers are doing SAS, you know you hear often it's security and things like back up, sometimes get, you know fall by the wayside. Or I think that my platform provider's going to take of that. Are we getting over that, are customers kind of, you know obviously you're doing well in the spectrum, yeah. >> I talk to those customers all the time and usually the bigger the customer the more resistant they are in moving their assets to the cloud. I think that's pretty much gone. I think they're all embracing it. They understand that security mechanisms are in place with the cloud vendors, especially AWS, that they can protect their assets. >> So I guess to clarify, like I wasn't saying that it was stopping them from going to the cloud. It sometimes, if they go to SAS or public cloud they say, "Oh, I don't need to worry about security "or back up, >> I see what you're saying. >> "Because won't the platform "just take care of that for me?" Which of course, it's like as we know, most of the people are often, "Oh I just put an instance in "a single zone of Amazon, oops. "I didn't, you know, spread it out, I didn't "architect it properly." I think we're gotten past >> I see a misconception. to that. >> Are customers today understanding that back up becomes critical even when I'm outside of my own data center? >> I think those customers are. I mean we do run into the occasional customer that says, "Why do I need to back up, I have a lot of durability "running my environment in this particular cloud? "Why do I need to back up?" And I think back up is something you need to be doing. There may be accidental deletions, data can get destroyed. There are any number of reasons that you want to roll back your SQL server database or your windows server, or just to get back those family photos that maybe you accidentally deleted locally and you know, you weren't backing up. So you know we serve managed server providers, businesses, and we have a huge consumer base. We are not abandoning consumers. We want to provide back up for them, so they can back up to their own private S3 accounts to make sure that their family pictures and videos and their music and all their important personal documents are protected as well. >> BYOD, right? >> Exactly. >> It brings a whole new. >> So how do you deal like cost? When I you know, if you have perpetual back up occurring, right? So a lot of money involved in that a lot of time being sucked up into that. How do you kind of parcel that out so that maybe certain operations are being done when they can be done and not interfering with other critical parts of a process? >> Well we have a couple different things. We have a SAS solution that runs in Amazon EC2. And that provides the administrative controls that you know the back up administrators need to manage large environments. But when it comes to things like backing up over the internet. You want to make sure you have good bandwidth controls in there. Because there's a limited internet bandwidth that most companies have available. So during business hours, you're not gonna want to use all that bandwidth for back up, but you may be able to do that at night. So you want to make sure you have a product like ours that can actually help you do the scheduling of bandwidth to make sure you use appropriate amounts during the day versus, you know at night when maybe you have more available. >> My understanding you work with a number of service providers also. >> We do. >> Can we talk about how that dynamics changing as to kind of you go to market, how customers are working with your solution. >> Yeah we have a very strong MSP solution, so the MSP's we work with can white label our product and rebrand it with their own company name, sell it to their own customers and select the storage vendor they want to do the back up. And manage it all in a very cost effective way. We're not really talking much about cost here, but we're a very cost effective solution, so we do a lot of volume business with a lot of companies, a lot of MSPs and a lot of consumers. >> Yeah, so you teed it up. Let's talk about cost because you know back up has been hot. You know for a number of years there's many players out there. What sets Cloudberry apart from a cost standpoint? >> So Cloudberry you get started for their managed service provider, you know our managed back up for MSPs or businesses who want sort of like an EC2 and client control panel for the administration control, starts at $4999 a year for file based back up, 59 for image based back up. We do a volume discounts which can bring the price down dramatically from there. And then you work with your storage vendor like Amazon and S3 and you work with them directly to pay them. And we also can help customers save a lot of money by plugging into Amazon's object life cycle policies. So we can intelligently move the data from S3 to Glacier after a certain amount of time for long term archival storage. >> And just the overall, we're talking so much about the creation of, you know this exponential increases of data in general these days. So what does that do to you in the back up world? 'Cause you're dealing with you know a factor of X off the charts more than you were maybe three quarters ago. >> Well that helps us. Because I mean if you've read the analysts reports from Gartner or IDC, they've been saying the same thing for probably the last eight years. That data is doubling in size, every 18 to 24 months. And it's not only data in the data center now it's laptops, it's your remote workers working on desktops from home, it's your mobile devices. There are more devices there. There's more disk available so storage is cheaper for your data centers that means you're just gonna collect more data. It's like having a big basement, right, or an attic in your house. You just tend to push a lot of stuff there. So you're not as diligent about cleaning out the old stuff. So as customers are seeing their data centers grow in size they are now increasingly looking at the cloud as a place to put all of those backups, because they just don't have the investment. They don't want to maintain all of the hardware, they don't want the personnel. And they certainly don't want to pay for the electricity to power all of these, you know older drive arrays just to store back ups in the same place where the live data exists. Which inherently can be somewhat dangerous for disaster. So that helps us, the more data that's out there the more customers want to come to us for solutions. >> John: It's like why do want to heat the closet? >> Right? >> Right. >> David thanks for the time. Good to have you here on the Cube, and continued success at Cloudberry Lab. >> All right, thanks guys. >> All right thank you. Back with more here, live from Las Vegas as we continue our coverage of Reinvent. We're coming to you with much more here on the Cube, right after this. (bright digital tones)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey welcome back to AWS Reinvent 2017. I'm Lisa Martin, very well-caffeinated today, so is David Floyer, we're really excited to be joined by two newcomers to the CUBE. We have Ryan Baxter, the director of cloud and verticals from Micron, welcome. >> Thank you. And Mo Farhat, director of SSD business line management, a marketing guy, welcome guys. >> Ryan: Thank you. >> Mo: Thank you, thank you. >> So Micron, a 35-year-old business. You must have seen massive changes in the last 35 years, but tell us what you guys are doing with AWS. What's exciting you about the announcements coming out, how are you partnering with them? >> Well, as you're seeing around you today, the rise of hyper scale is the true story in IT. And we're closely engaged with AWS to support their storage, memory, and emerging memory technologies as well. And we're tremendously excited by the potential that AWS that can bring to the market and is bringing to the market today. >> So let's unwrap that a little bit more. One of the things that seems to be happening is that the traditional nexus of networking, storage, going all the through the central processor is breaking up. >> Mo: Right. >> And you've got some very interesting stuff with the NVDIMMS. Can you talk a little bit about that and what does it mean to architecture? >> Sure, so I don't know what line isn't blurring these days, when it comes to computing, so we are certainly developing and pushing and product today called NVDIMM. It is the first example of persistent memory which we believe will really usher in a completely new model, and really a way of thinking about, the way folks do compute. It really requires some change on the system side, but the advantages are significant. With just a little bit of investment in terms of adjustments and software, and the way you use hardware, what you can gain from a performance perspective is enormous. >> By having large amounts of D-RAM and behind it, a large amount of Nand storage, and that combination of the two together on the same piece that goes in the computer suddenly multiplies by, how many, 10 times? >> Oh gosh, at least an order of magnitude. We're pretty excited about where this can go, and obviously it doesn't come for free. There will be some investment as far as the application stack, and how things need to change from a hardware enablement perspective, but yeah, things are changing very quickly. The traditional model of really memory and storage is very much at risk and very much blurring these days, and we're excited about where it's going. >> So let's talk about the SSDs. I've been following the flash market for a long time, and saying what a difference it makes to applications in the amount of data that they can get into them, both from the memory side and the storage side. So what's happening on the SSD side? What are you focusing on? >> Well what's most exciting about the developments in SSD today isn't just that they're accelerating existing workloads, but they're enabling all new workloads. Things like real-time analytics to drive our AI engines have revolutionary potential for our daily lives, and not just in the data center. And so when we take a look at what's happening in the SSD market today, the big story is the ramp in adoption in PCIE-connected or NVME SSDs. And we believe that we're at a turning point right now you know, led by AWS and other hyperscalers, and truly driving this adoption. And what NVME allows you to do is really harness the inherent parallelism of solid memory technology, solid state memory technology, and enable better control, enable lower latency, higher throughput and really move away from the legacy IO stack that was built for the hard drive era. Or as we like to call it at Micron, spinning rust. >> Ryan: Yeah. (laughs) >> And that's really amazing, isn't it? If you can have real-time analytics connecting to systems of record at the same time, that ushers in a complete, what we call at Wikibon, systems of intelligence, a completely new way of being able to provide much, much more data to those systems and drive productivity by an order, again, really very high level's difference of the type of applications that you can have. So let me ask you, this is a lot of change that we talked about, where we're taking out the network side, we're taking out the storage side, and the memory side. What's some of the most important things about getting this to happen over the next few years? >> Right, well I think, I'll start I guess. One of the most important things in our minds is paying attention to the customers, and really what drives them, what provides the most value for their deployments in the cloud. We have the privilege of working with folks like AWS because these customers, at the end of the day, challenge us to be better. They challenge us to maintain or improve our quality levels. They challenge us to be more flexible from a go-to-market and business model perspective. And frankly, a lot of the features that they're looking at incorporating into otherwise standard products today, actually end up finding their way into the next generation products that we design tomorrow. So it informs a lot of the way we need to think about traditional memory and storage models in the future. >> What about the standards that are required? >> The standards? >> Yeah. >> Yeah so, the standards bodies are alive and well, and are absolutely necessary for what we need to do to push our products into the market on a daily basis. Oftentimes those standards are too rigid, or not feature-laden enough to be able to get enough benefit for the particular end customer. So in those cases, we're sort of having to bend the model a little bit. Our products are based on a relatively straightforward set of foundational standards, but from there, we listen to the customer to enable new features, new capability of our otherwise standard products. >> Absolutely and in fact, Micron today is really working with our customers up front in helping drive the standards, with deep technical engagement on next generation, NVME features, as well as next generation form factors. You know, really our technology leadership in D-RAM, Nand, everything in between really positions Micron very strongly to shape the future here, and we can't do it without strong customer engagement, and we're really very excited about the potential for a future here. >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> How does the standards focus that you guys have, how does that set Micron apart from your competition? >> Well it helps us be a good player in the industry. It helps cement leadership. It allows us to have a playing field that goes to the benefit of our customers, our partners, and delivering predictability to the market, delivering overall lower cost to the market, and all the other ancillary benefits, that agreement our standards provide. >> I loved what you talked about with respect to working together in partnership with your customers. We hear a lot about that from AWS. They're very customer-centric. There was an article on siliconangle.com this morning, it was the third installation of John Furrier's exclusive with Andy Jassy. And I love their kind of backwards approach to product development. Which is really is surprisingly still revolutionary. The customer is such a driving force into what Amazon has become, and it sounds like what you're both saying, that's really very much paralleled at Micron. >> Absolutely, you know leading is hard. When you're firmly looking forward and really blazing new trails in technology, in our product set here, and really driving the revolution towards the solid state data center. You can't do it looking in the rear view mirror. You've got to go in collaboration. It's really some of the most exciting things that we do here is really enabling our customers to succeed. >> And your focus at the moment, I'm putting words in your mouth, I presume that's really weird that cloud providers, the hyperscale people like AWS, like Microsoft, like Google, are those sort of where you're starting the conversations and then that will come down into the enterprise as well after that. Is that the model? >> You know, we provide solutions to a broad range of customers. >> Okay, yeah. >> There is no doubt that hyperscale is in the driver's seat in terms of demand now and into the future for IT technology of all stripes. So we're very focused on it. >> Yeah and there are cloud models that obviously are heavily supported by our OEM customers as well. So maintaining engagement and really being best in class in their eyes is also extremely important for us. >> So this event, I actually heard this morning, 44,000 people here across the entire Strip. Last year, it was around 30,000 or so. How does this massive momentum that AWS has, how does that inspire Micron, and what can people see, feel, touch and experience at your booth here in the expo? >> Again, the growth in the number of attendees is nothing compared to the growth in AWS's business overall. These numbers are truly inspiring. They're changing the landscape of IT today, and so you know, encourage everybody to come by our booth and look at the variety of solutions that we have, both on the SSD side, memory side, as well as the all-popular NVDIMMs. >> And I think what events like this help to do is mobilize 44,000 of the brightest people in the world that come from all different walks of life, not just from a technical perspective, but software, hardware, application-oriented marketing to really have a meeting of the minds, if you will. And it really does, it challenges the traditional way of thinking of how we design our solutions, and how we support customers like AWS. >> Well guys, thank you so much for stopping by and chatting with David and me. >> Thank you very much. >> Really exciting to hear what you guys are doing, and we wish you continued success. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Lisa. (crosstalk) >> For Mo and Ryan, and my co-host David Floyer, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching the CUBE live on Day 2 at SWA 2017 re:Invent. Stick around, we'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of AWS Reinvent 2017. This is day two for us. Incredible day one. We had great buzz on day two. Great announcements coming out from AWS today. I'm Lisa Martin with my cohost Keith Townsend, and we're excited to be joined by CUBE alumni, Aaron Kalb, the head of product and a founder of Alation. Welcome back to the show. >> Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. >> So speaking of excitement, you can hear the buzz behind us. Interesting about Alation, the first data catalog designed for human collaboration. What gap did Alation see in the market five years ago when you started? >> That's a great question, Lisa. So, yeah, we're the first data catalog, period, and we're excited to see a lot of other people kind of using that label, I believe it validates this as a space, and I think that everybody needs, and I think our approach, as you said, was to really to approach it from the human side, to say the data might be generated by machines or stored on machines, but it's not meant to ultimately be consumed by machines. Even if there's algorithms that's pulling it in, it's to ultimately serve human interests. So the goal was to design from the human back and really think, what does this data mean? Can I trust it? Is it gonna drive the processes correctly? >> So Aaron, I have seen that term quite a bit, and data catalog, for me, means one specific thing. Can you kind of wrap that up for us? >> What is a data catalog? >> That's a really great question, Keith, and I think what's interesting is we took a lot of inspiration in the early days actually from Amazon.com, right? So Amazon is an amazing modern product catalog. You can go in, type in English and see a variety of products that match that keyword. And for each one you can see whose bought it before, how many stars did they give it? Is it good? So it helps you find, understand, and trust, and get the right product for your need. We want to do that same thing for data. How do you found a trustworthy data asset, understand what it is, and put it to use? So that's exactly the goal. >> So, a simple problem is I've worked with a ton of researchers in the Big Pharma industry, data across the world basically. And a lot of data sets, repetitive. A team in Germany is working with one set of data, team in New Jersey working with another one, how does your solution help those researchers find the data that they're looking for? >> Exactly right. So the problem is many different data sets, many different things claiming to be true. Some of them are just plain wrong. Sometimes the answer might be one thing in Germany but something else elsewhere, and they're both valid. And so you've hit the nail on the head. The way people use data contains a lot of hints about the way you should use data. So just like Amazon, again, because we're here. And it'll say, oh, customers who bought what you're about to buy also bought this, and that can help you discover something useful. We try to expose we call behavior IO. Let the past behavior of the most knowledgeable people in the organization drive the future behavior. That's a big part of what we do. So one of the things I was reading about you guys on your website and some editorials is, a lot of data lakes fail. Why is that? How is Alation different? >> That's a great question. So I think what's interesting about a data lake is it's kind of like having a huge basement, right? And it can make you adopt a hoarder mentality, you say, oh it's so cheap to store everything, we'll just store it, and then when we need it we'll figure it out then. Well, the truth is, it's not always how it goes. Often you store so many things, it's cheap to store it, but when that actual human who has an actual analytical question they want to answer or an actual business process they want to improve, goes looking for the data, all they see are all these unlabeled boxes. Right? So I think the key is to think about how do you make information searchable, discoverable, understandable, trustworthy? And what's great is a lot of people are migrating from their on-premise data lakes to the Clouds, and obviously (mumbles) a big leader in where that's going. It gives you an opportunity to ask, just like when you move houses to say, let me look at what I've got, and can I adopt an approach? You know, what do I actually need? You might keep it all, but what's gonna be in the top shelf? What's gonna be in the basement? And how do you make everything accessible? >> So Aaron, can you talk a little bit about today's announcements? A lot of machine learning, analytics announcements from AWS. However, I don't know what I already have. So how can I make use of that data? Can you help talk about how Alation helps to leverage some of these new tools from AWS? >> Absolutely. So, we've had a bunch of customers on AWS Stack already, and increasingly so. Fundamentally our customers are people who do analysis. A lot of them are using S3, Redshift, the like. And people are hosting on the Cloud increasingly. And it's exactly the problem you described. It's I know I have it somewhere, but I can't get my head around what I already have. What region is it in? >> Aaron: Exactly. >> Is it in a region, is it in my data center, where is it? >> Exactly. so whether that data is in Redshift, in S3, or somewhere else. Maybe it's, you know, in a Postgres or SQL Server or Oracle Server. (mumbles) hosted one. Whatever it is, we crawl and index everything you have, just the way Google crawls and indexes everything out on the web, and we make it searchable, and we put information about who's used it and how good it is front and center, just the way you can say, oh this is a five-star clock on Amazon, I'm gonna go click buy it now. >> So one challenge with data lakes is security around that data. So data catalog, I get meta data around the data that I have, but some of that data is sensitive. How do you guys handle security around the data catalog itself? >> Absolutely. So we respect all the security and privacy settings that exist that are on the data itself, and we just sort of surface those in the catalog. Some of our customers say, look, we want to let people know what exists so they can ask for permission. Others say, even having awareness of this data is too much for us. And you mentioned, Pharma, that'll vary by industry. >> Where do you guys get involved in the customer conversation? You said many customers of yours are already using AWS for different things, but where does Alation come into the conversation? Are you brought in by AWS? Are you brought in by customers? Where are they on this journey towards leveraging the Cloud for the things that they need, agility, the speed, and the cost reduction? >> Absolutely. So our promise is we help you find, understand, and trust your data wherever it lives and whoever you are, democratizing it. So customers choose the right infrastructure for their needs, given cost, given performance. Obviously Amazon is increasingly a part of that. But that's a choice they make, and we resolve to handle that wherever it is. And as of customers, our customers are so smart, we learn so much from them. We're meeting a bunch of CIOs, both the prospects and also talking some current customers like Expedia today here at AWS lunch with our investor Costanoa and another at dinner tonight. And folks like Chegg and Invoice2go who've been longstanding AWS customers using S3, using Redshift, and actually in Chegg's case, they have a lot of homegrown tooling that they developed on the backend, but they said Alation is the best place to surface that and have it be the central portal for business users and analysts who might not be able to otherwise access things that are just available via (mumbles) >> So how are you, Alation, and AWS helping a customer like Chegg extract ROI quickly? >> Yeah, it's a great question, so, AWS is really great for cost containment. You have all this data and all this processing, but you have peaks and you have troughs, and how do you make sure you're not overpaying (mumbles) so it's great for helping with storage and computation. And Alation helps with the human side, how do you get that upside by saying you have this data, that could effect the way you stock your shelves, the way you price your products or who you hire, what markets you go into. And that requires that last step. If you have the data but it isn't in the right hands at the right time or it's interpreted incorrectly, it has no value. So the two of them together (mumbles) end-to-end solution. >> So Aaron, with GDPR coming up quick, the enforcement of that coming up May 2018, customers have to be concerned about having data they shouldn't have. Does Alation help identify some of that data? >> Absolutely. So data catalog is fundamentally an inventory of everything you have, plus information about how it has been and could be consumed. We very much focus on the upside, potential of using that to drive better business choices and better analysis. But we have customers actually saying, oh, we can use that same information about what we have, who's using it, what's in it, to instead make sure that it's used compliantly with a regulation like GDPR to make sure that you aren't holding onto health records longer than you should or PII. And it's absolutely a very big use case for many of our customers. >> So data is touched by a lot of people in an organization. AWS has done a great job of really developing a lot of synergy with the developer community for a long time now. But we're also seeing some trends suggesting they're going up the stack. They want to get more enterprises, enterprises are at the precipice, as Andy Jassey said, of this mass migration to the Cloud. You mentioned, all of your work with AWS and the CIO events that you're having here. Where are you guys in a conversation with customers? Are you more now having to get to that C-suite as now their business are absolutely predicated upon the best use of data to identify ways to monetize new revenue streams. How influential is that C-level in this conversation. >> It's a great question. So I think what is interesting is, all companies, we sort of commoditized a basic business school, consultant, best practice knowledge. Everyone is kind of already doing that. To get to the next level our customers are recently telling us it is only by finding key insights in data that they're gonna beat out the competition and stay relevant. I mean, look what Amazon and Netflix have done to the industries that, they weren't as data driven, and have that kind of agility around data. So everybody wants to do the same thing. So CIOs, CDOs, chief data officers, we're seeing them crop up more and more and being more and more empowered in the organization. Because it's seen as central to hitting revenue targets and making an impact, which is what customers want to do. And I mentioned CISOs as well with the question that you asked, Keith, about security. >> The CISOs, the chief information security officers. >> Aaron: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, so I think usually often a CISO will report into a CIO, often you see it as adjacent to them, there's somebody who needs to have the confidence, as they do, in Alation's process of mirroring what's in the data source, not introducing security holes. Potentially even taking a step forward and saying, as I implement GDPR and other policies, how do I use a comprehensive automated inventory like Alations to make sure that process isn't just started but actually finished and avoid the fines and the adverse events. We absolutely see across the C-suite a lot of interest. >> So let's go one step below the CIO, and I think the CIO understands this. This data is the new oil. Very, very straightforward. But now you're getting into the enterprise architect, the VP of infrastructure, and they have to implement these technologies. What have been some of the rewards and challenges with those conversations? >> That's a great question. Right, so here at AWS Reinvent we have a very technical audience, very infrastructure minded. Those are folks that we love to engage with, but our primary audience is the business. >> Keith: Right. >> Right. And so I think what's interesting is, the problem we solve for the more infrastructure-minded executives is how do I deal with these business users? How do I turn this relationship that feels adversarial, where they're putting strain on my system, they're upset about cost overruns, we don't speak the same language with the same values. Alation can be a great bridge. Because we do all of this automated extraction and tying to the sources where they are, and kind of meet the industry people where they live, but then can communicate the value in a clean interface that demonstrates real business ROI to the business. So we can kid of be an ambassador between those sides of the customer. >> I love that, being an ambassador. Aaron, your passion for Alation, what you do, your engagement with customers is palpable. So we thank you for joining us on theCUBE, and wish you guys the best of luck with what you're doing here at AWS Reinvent. >> Lisa, thank you so much for having me. >> Lisa: Awesome. >> Keith: Great job, Aaron. >> Thank you for watching. We are live at AWS Reinvent 2017 with 42,000 other people. I'm Lisa Martin, for my cohost Keith Townsend and Aaron Kalb, stick around. We'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS reInvent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Can you hear that? That's the sound of a happy conference right now. 40,000 plus here gathered, we are live here in Las Vegas. Here at re:Invent, AWS putting on its three day event with great success we might add. Along Justin Warren, I'm John Walls. We're now joined with a couple of folks who are from the Red Hat side of the fence. Let's start with Tim Apnell who is the Senior Principal Product Manager at OpenShift. Tim, nice to have you here. >> Oh with Ansible. >> Oh Ansible, OpenShift, alright. He's on the OpenShift side of the family. Alright so, I knew I was gonna get that confused. First of all, let's talk about OpenShift a little bit though Eric. >> Sure. >> You had an announcement just about a week ago. >> Yep. >> Getting a little more aligned with AWS. Obviously, you're here with that announcement a week ago, but tell us a little bit more about that. >> Yeah certainly. So what we've actually done is we've had a long partnership with Amazon, or AWS. And we're enabling the AWS services natively on OpenShift. So what that really means is you can go right from what we call is the service catalog is the User interface. And developers really don't need to know where their services are running. What they're able to do now is go into that service catalog, order AWS services along side of their applications and they really can deploy hybrid workloads. And really, it couldn't be any easier you don't have to switch between consoles, you don't have to go to outside of OpenShift. It can all be done on the platform. >> And what was that response to? Because I'm sure you talk to customers right? You hear what the workloads that they're trying to handle. They liked the cloud environment, they like AWS, like what's going on there, but what were you trying to do for them that solved the problem solvent? >> Yeah we're definitely listening to our customers and we have a lot of customers who run hybrid workloads. And really the goal of this was to make it easier, right. We heard loud and clear hybrid workloads are important. They're a part of most companies' business. And they wanted a way that was really seamless and easy to reduce the overhead and complication on the developers. And by being able to pull those services into the user interface, it really makes it a lot easier to deploy all the popular services on AWS again right from the platform without having to ever leave that environment. So it makes it a lot more easier and comfortable for the developers, and it makes them a lot more efficient. >> Yeah, what are some of the services that you're hearing developers demand? Like what are the ones that they really want to use on OpenShift? >> Yeah, there's quite a few. So we've enabled 10 initially, I'm not gonna go through all 10, but things like RDS, right, so their relational database service, uh, SQS, simple queuing service, SNS, Athena, RHEL53, I mean the list goes on an on. So... You know there's definitely a lot of services we have today, but what we're really doing is we're taking a lot of that feedback now that we've actually enabled this. We made it available, it's public. You can get the code today. And then we're starting, getting feedback, and as we get that feedback, we're enabling more services. And the nice part about this is the, it's automatic. When you put a new service out there, their environment can immediately consume it, right. It doesn't have to do any special changes or enablements or reconfigurations. It's really just up to the administrator to decide which services they want to expose to their users. >> Yeah, so what is it about putting those services in OpenShift that really amplifies the way that you develop with OpenShift? Because developing software on OpenShift is quite different from other forms of software development which, without that kind of platform. So, what is it about putting these services that amplifies the ability of what you can do as a developer in OpenShift? >> Yeah, so it's kind of a multi-part question. Let me see if I can do it some justice. I think one of the nice things is we're based on Kubernetes, and Kubernetes is one of the defacto standards today for orchestrating workloads. So not only do a lot of these workloads again, are hybrid based, right. So they're both on premise and in the cloud, but it pretty much adds that layer of flexibility there that you really don't have to kind of pick, right. You don't have to have it all in, you know, Amazon's AWS environment or on prem, right. You can run it full. And the nice part about this enablement that we did, which makes it really flexible, is in an on prem environment, we can actually enable the services there to be able to take advantage of deploying AWS services natively from on premise. I mean, obviously all those services still run in the cloud, but you can actually run them, run the software to enable it locally. Likewise if you have an instance of OpenShift where you're doing development in the cloud, in C2, you can actually run it there, and you still have access to it. So it's really flexible in how you want to do that. It's not just confined to, you know, in the cloud, it's also available on prem. >> Yeah, that's, it provides you with that flexibility without it being too complicated and having to go into the weeds and figure out exactly how you do it in 900 different ways. You can say well actually we just standardized on this one OpenShift approach but you get this, the access and the choice that developers really, really like. >> Yeah, it's, one of the things that we're, again, we're based on the Kubernetes standard, so we have, something called the OpenShift service catalog, and that's the Kubernetes upstream project. And what that is is that standardized interface. And it's really meant to automate, to make things more efficient. Normally you would have a ticket queuing system, you order a service, you know, a number of days it takes an IT operations person some time to get that implemented. And then you get the credentials, you get an in point, and then you can finally tie that in to your service, right. And that stays wasted. With the service catalog, it really sort of enables self service, right for developers. So they can go in, not only that, all those services that they create and they put in that catalog that they can deploy, yeah, and that's sort of married with all the services that they may need for their hardware workload. So we all need less services. So it really makes it a simple, easy way to deploy your workloads, deploy your applications without a lot of work. >> And I know one of the ways that you're exposing those services is using the Ansible. What's it, the Ansible service broker, is that what it's called? >> Yeah, we're using Ansible, the OpenShift team has used Ansible automation to make creating these services more easy to develop and deploy into their platform. >> Yeah, so... >> Just one of the ways that, you know, the flexibility of the Ansible tool. Adapting. >> Tell us a bit more about how developers are using that Ansible, particularly around that service brokerage idea, but more around like, Ansible is available as Open source, Red Hat is famous for being very open. >> Yes it is. >> But it also has Enterprise capabilities. So could you walk us through a bit more about that. How are developers using this to access services? And then what are some of the enterprise capabilities that they can get with Ansible? >> Well, specific to what the OpenShift team launched, they're able to develop these services and use the entire suite of Ansible bundle modules that are bundled together. And then brought in as services, so they're able to mount and provision different types of services only knowing Ansible automation. They don't need to know like Golang or some type of other sophisticated thing, so there's a lot... It's bringing something more powerful in a more simple way to the OpenShift platform. More specifically, or more broadly I should say, Ansible's always been a highly flexible tool that can adapt to different workflows, different environments, whether that's on prem, legacy environments, or pure cloud or hybrid cloud environments. So you know, this is just one way that it's been used differently, but we're seeing it used throughout the RedHat portfolio. And it's always been a strength with Amazon that we've always had a strong Amazon Web Services community within Ansible whether it's just traditional compute, or even doing things in the server-less space, Lambda, and moving beyond that, we're able to do that complete automation from end to end. >> Yeah. As a Python guy I've got a special place in my heart for Ansible. >> Yeah. >> I actually quite like that type of thing. And I like being able to do things in a Python-y kind of way >> Yeah. >> So yeah, it's like Golang... I hear people really like, but I like my Python. >> Yeah. But we try to keep that where users don't have to really know Python, but that is what Ansible is underneath, and it is, when you want to extend Ansible, what you would use, but the vast majority of users don't really need programming skills, they're working with very human readable, declarative forms of defining the state they want their servers and their computing resources to be in. >> Yeah, Ansible is sort of historically used for things like, it's more of an infrastructure configuration tool, but we've got service configuration now as well. And something like OpenShift is much more application developer-centric. So I'm seeing a real blending of those two kinds of people who are doing development. They're kind of two different forms of developers. But now they're basically blending themselves together and becoming one team... Do you see that as where development is going? That pretty much everyone becomes a software developer? >> Well I know from the Ansible stand point, we're continuing to explore bringing that simplicity and power to all these different ways that we can... We can adapt that and... Since we've joined the RedHat family we're finding all these different, exploring all these different ways that we can work together and bring that type of value to its end-users, to its customers. >> And what do you think at the end of the day, when you say, you know we talked about customers and trying to meet demands and what have you. If you have to look down the road, and say for the next 6, 9 months, this is what we're going to try to address, this is what we're hearing from our customers that they need attended to, that you can provide help for, what would that be? What headache are people bringing to you right now? And say Tim give me a hand. >> The headaches? Well, generally the headaches, it's a lot of people just trying to automate and make sense of all this legacy things that they've had and the issues where they've done things manually or before you had cloud native applications and how do they move it to a cloud native architecture like an OpenShift. So that's a lot of our focus. It's how do I, how do I wrestle some of these private clouds? How do I wrestle Windows, how do I bring things into AWS? How do I do multi-cloud? You know, things of that nature. So it's how do I manage things when they're moving so fast and there's so many moving parts. And we give them that single language that they can use through their automation. So you've got all this legacy work that's been done, you're trying to get them into the 21st century, well not even, 2018. >> Right. >> And there's a lot of retroactivity that needs to be done there right. I mean you've got to fix a lot of plumbing. >> The legacy hasn't gone away they still need to automate and manage it. >> Right. >> So we're very much a swiss army knife and can cover a lot of ground in a lot of different environments. >> Well it's good to be handy. >> Yes, yes it is. >> Nothing wrong with that. Alright gentlemen, from OpenShift, and from Ansible again thanks for joining us, we appreciate the time. >> Right, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good guys, good having you here. We'll be back more here from reInvent AWS live in Las Vegas in just a moment here on theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back everyone, live here in Las Vegas. We're at AWS Reinvent. Day one coverage of three days of theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, the host this week. >> We've got two sets, our fifth year covering Reinvent. It's been great to watch. Every year we try to get in the VC panels. We just had Jerry Chen on from Greylock. We've got two more awesome friends of theCUBE in the community here. We've got Sunil Dhaliwal who is the founder of Amplify Ventures and Nick Sturiale with Ignition Partners. Guys, great to see you. >> Great to see you, John. >> Good to see you, John. >> Boy what a lineup it's been over the past three years, four years with Amazon, just watching them tear. Now it's all steamed ahead. Microsoft is totally gearing up. You can see them playing, what they're doing, they're pedaling as fast as they can. Google Play and the (mumbles) we're gonna compete on TensorFlow and other, little goodness, a lot more to go. You got Alibaba Cloud. Intel behind us is making (mumbles) chips. Good market on paper. >> Yeah. >> But we're seeing startups kind of get bought, not for what they wanted. Didn't go public. Skyhigh from Greylock. You see Barracuda going private. A lot of money to be made. Maybe the investment thesis of 200 million dollar fundings, that's over, is it over? Get a little bit of cash and get the critical mass and... >> Well, here's a question. Do you invest in these companies thinking every one of them is going to go public? Or do you think that a good number of them are gonna get acquired? And I think the investors that have done this for a while, and Nick's done this for what, like 45 years? >> I started when I was two, so. >> I've done this like two years less than you have, so I don't pretend I'm dramatically younger. But the reality is, these companies get acquired. And pretending that you're gonna pile into a company late and expect every single thing to go public I think is kind of crazy. And the people that are getting caught in that trap, I think they're gonna be in for a rude awakening. But look, you've got a billion six outcome for Barracuda, right? >> John: That was pretty damn good. >> And you know Skyhigh number hasn't been printed, but it wasn't a small one. Like, those are good outcomes. Those are good venture returns, if you were smart about where you got in. >> So I have a slightly different perspective, which is the real issue is that so much money moved into the late stage, and these companies thought that growth would always be linear even asymptotic. And so what happens is that their growth rate slows down and the cost of growth goes up, and suddenly the company's not quite as hot as it was a year ago, and so now the options for what they do have shrunk dramatically, and so you get exits like you just mentioned. And so part of the problem is is that entrepreneurs and investors really have to have a sober view of what is a business model that's durable over time and which ones really are gonna start to leak in their later phases. >> Well it's kind of a planted question for you guys, because you're early stage in Amplify. I've been following you guys, do a great job. You guys do a range of early, end growth. >> Mostly early though. >> The days of just laying back and kicking your feet up and throwing cash at stuff is over. You actually gotta do the work. It sounds like old school VCs. Greg Sands and I talk about this all the time. You gotta go in and be venturing. You gotta actually make it work. >> And that sucks, I was just told I put my feet up, I put some money in and then I get a distribution check at the end of it. >> That's what everyone thinks you guys do. What do you guys do every day? Take us through your day. >> It looks a lot like that except... >> It's so easy to be a VC, all you do is okay, yes, no, okay that's good. >> We got a dartboard. >> All you gotta do is bet on the good ones. >> Yeah. >> That's so easy. >> So there are what, 14,000 startups in the bay area, how many of them are worthwhile you think? >> It's a lot of work. Well old school, let's go back to the old school tactics, because you're seeing a couple things going on. You guys essentially pointing it out, you gotta do the work and pick the winners. But now that the business models are changing, right? You're seeing Amazon just ignoring conventional wisdom, and they're winning. The game is changing a bit in the business model side. How are you guys looking at that as you make investments? So you got the classic venture, bet on a good team, do all that stuff. What do you guys look at now in the marketplace for fit, scale, longevity, durability? >> I mean the stuff we care about the most is are you going after a big problem? Because I think a lot of the stuff we see, even with your great teams and great technologies, but you step back and you actually think, you know, that isn't a company, that's a product, or that's not even a product, that's a feature. And I think that's the natural outgrowth of what happens when you got 14,000 startups in the bay area, is there aren't 14,000 products that are companies worth having. What you have is, probably 12,000 features, 1500 products, and then like 500 real companies. And that's probably the biggest filter that you gotta apply on the way in, and it's maybe the hardest one to solve for, which is, roll this out seven years, nine years, because that's really what you're talking about when you're talking about building a public durable company is, what does this market look like way down the road? And is that a thing that can stand alone? And that's really, I think, the difference between the companies and the investors that do really well and the ones that can kind of squeeze by, knocking out a couple interesting outcomes. >> My favorite thing is that when you say we just pick the winners, is that nobody knows who the winner is a priori. If you knew that, that market would be gone already. And most successful companies that you read about, and they talk about the (mumbles) investors that were in it early, that's all BS. It's a million good things happen along the way, serendipity, a ton of hard work on the management team and the employees. So this idea that things are preordained is just silly. And I would tell you that you look at most really successful companies today, their business model is completely different than the one that the venture person backed. >> I mean it's always the classic, because I remember when I first started an entrepreneur in the 90s, the question was what's your exit strategy? It was a legitimate question at that time, and it was kind of a peg mark, okay, when I build a growing company and have an exit. Now the exits are, as you mentioned, buyers. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. If Microsoft's in a race to fill in their white spaces, man, I would crop up and get the crops growing, right? So you can say, okay, Microsoft. So you guys gotta kind of do a little bit of homework there, do some relationship work, and you guys are close to Microsoft, so. >> Yes. >> I mean, is that kind of the new playbook? >> Yes. >> How should entrepreneurs posture to this? I mean obviously they're gonna try to build a durable venture, but they don't want to be zig-zagging too much or pivoting. >> No. >> I mean Nick made the point earlier, which I think is absolutely the one to focus on, which is when you raise a ton of capital your options start to shrink. The more money you raise at the higher and higher price, there's somebody you gotta serve who's thinking about the even bigger pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And honestly, when we look at, I'll take one company in our portfolio for example, and I think the Splunk story is right up there with it, If you look at Datadog, Datadog's huge here at this show. There's purple shirts everywhere and a massive booth, and they've been here for five years running or four years running. That business has barely touched the last round of capital they raised, let alone the round of capital before that. The capital efficiency of that business, not only is it gonna make it a great outcome, but it's gonna give them tons of options of things that they can do. And, you know, they'll get to make every single decision they make, whether it's going to new product or whatever, position of strength. And not a lot of companies do that. >> So Splunk started in 2004. Guess how much total the company raised before it went public? >> How much? >> Forty million. Guess how much it spent up to the time it went public? >> John: How much? >> John: Twenty five. >> So it went public... >> So very capital efficient? >> John: Think about that. >> Yes, and it's worth 9 billion now. So you had several hundred millionaires created out of Splunk, and I would submit to you if Splunk was started today, the investor community would have killed it. >> John: Why? >> Because 18 Brinks trucks would have backed up and dumped a billion dollars on top of it, and buried it in too much money without allowing the company to get the time to become a fully viable system. >> Sunil: Yeah. >> So the too much cash can create toxicity for the startup? >> Money rarely makes the company. Money rarely makes the company. >> Lew Cirne was on earlier, founder of New Relic. Another capital efficient company. >> Great company. >> Went public all time high. Love that guy. He's such a strong, he wrote some code last week. He said, if you can help your partners be successful, in referring to Amazon. >> Man: Amazon. >> Then you can be a great ecosystem partner. So the question now is that's not a bad deal for a company to jump into the Cloud game and be a really good partner and build a kick-ass product. >> Yes. >> And look like a feature maybe on paper, and then sequence to an opportunity. Thoughts on that? It's certainly lucrative if you can get the flywheel going. Right? >> So you don't want to build a company whose basic thesis is helping Amazon or Azure or Google. That is a dead company. If, however, you pull revenue for one of those three in a way that's interesting to them, they will support you all day long. We have two companies in particular, Icertis and KenSci that are pulling a lot of revenue for Azure right now. And Microsoft gives them extraordinary support. >> That's the nuance right there. That's the nuance. Pulling revenue, value, creation. >> Yes. >> Well, they've created Amazon and Microsoft and Google, to a degree, as they get going. They've created a really interesting model, which is unlike your traditional ecosystem, hub-and-spoke model, where someone's gonna capture (mumbles) control of the sale, etc., etc. The smart thing that Amazon's done is they say, you use whatever you want, we're gonna bill you for the primitives until the cows come home, and as long as you're not standing in between Amazon and their primitives revenue, you're gonna do great. >> All right, final question for you guys. First of all, great conversation on the capital markets, certainly it's crazy. We always try to cover it, but here's a thought exercise. Last night we were at the analyst summit. We were talking to some analysts, and the question was, the airplane's going down, and you're in a board meeting, I gotta pick a parachute. There are only three parachutes, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google, which one do you grab? You got 10 seconds. >> To sell to or? >> No, just grab a parachute, and you hope that it opens and you live. Pick a parachute. >> Amazon, >> I'm going with Amazon. This one isn't hard. >> Microsoft and Google. The only person who's gonna grab the Microsoft parachute is the guy who's been with Microsoft for 30 years and knows they're not gonna let him down. If you're a forward-facing company you're going with Amazon, and if you're nuts, you're gonna grab Google right now. No offense to my friends at Google. >> So we're sitting here at Reinvent, so I feel like that's a trick question. (laughing) >> Well, that's good. If you're in the Microsoft ecosystem, they do take care of their own. >> They do. >> Their DNA is tuned to ISVs, they're very good at it. >> and that's their track record. Well, the one guys says, well it depends. By the time you argue with the parachute the planes (mumbles). But it does depend on your business. >> Sunil: Yes. >> Nick: Yes. >> But it is hard not to look at this show and say this is what electricity was in 1920. >> Final question, obviously Amazon is looking at all steam ahead, business models are changing, you're starting to see the top of the stack develop nicely, moving up the stacks seems to be the trend. You got this decentralized market up there. Bitcoin hit 10,000. A lot of smart alpha geeks, including some of the guys here at theCUBE team, is looking at ways to kind of leverage this decentralization trend in a way that's productive. Yet there's a lot of scams out there with these ICOs. Decentralization good or just another infrastructure dynamic? Thoughts on this whole decentralized token economics wave? Also the FCC has regulations now in it. Is it disrupting VC? Your thoughts, Nick. >> Do remember what H.L. Mencken said? "A fool and his money are soon parted." so I think anyone who sits there and says I understand completely what an ICO is and what I'm buying and doesn't view it as something that'll be a tax deduction for next year, I think is gonna be in for a bumpy ride. >> Get out your Gartner Hype Cycle. And if you don't know what it is, go look it up, and there's a spot right now of where we are in the hype cycle, and I think the movement my finger tells you where we are, but this is coming, but this comes afterwards. >> I heard this argument, the web is just for kids. No one will ever use the web. Browsers is a toy. >> A K memory is all you'll ever need. >> Yeah, but guess what, guess what, 2001 happened before we got to 2017, so let's never forget where we are at that kind of hype. >> ICOs are like subprime mortgages, and I speak Spanish and I can't even read the thing. That is what an ICO is. >> So certainly hyped up. Winter's coming, we'll see. All right, we got the VCs here, Nick and Sunil. We got Amplify and Ignition Partners here in theCUBE. More live coverage day one after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Well, welcome back. We're live here in Las Vegas at Reinvent. AWS putting on it's annual show, and you might notice the volume's gone up a little bit around here. Well, it's 5 o'clock reception time here, so the show floor has a little different vibe to it, you might say, right now. Justin Warren, John Walls, you kind of feel it, don't you, right now? >> Oh yeah, there is an energy just sort of vibrating around. I can feel the energy lifting as the booze starts to flow some more. >> Energy's a good way to put it. >> Yeah. >> Right. We're with W. Curtis Preston, who is the chief technical architect at Druva, and Curtis, thanks for being with us. >> Glad to be here. >> Do you feel a vibe, too? >> I feel the vibe. I feel the vibe standing out in the big line to get in here. >> Yeah, in here. >> And now we're in here, it's yeah, it's a lot of people. >> By the way, for those of you at home not familiar, you were named, this year, on the Deloitte Technology Fast 500 list, 175. >> Hey. >> Quite an honor. >> I assume you're talking about Druva, not me personally. >> Well, yeah, Druva, not you. Although maybe you did, I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't think. >> But that's quite an accomplishment, though. And quite an honor for the company. I mean, tell a little bit about that, about that process, and what do you think that means? What's that stamp of approval for what you guys are doing? >> Well, I think it's just, you know, like a lot of those lists, it's a recognition of the position that we're holding, right? I mean, Druva historically is really well known for their protection of endpoints and SaaS applications. They're expanding into data center and Cloud protection, but I think they're absolutely recognized as the leader in the protection of endpoints. >> Okay, so characterize the Cloud work you guys are doing. Like you said, this is a new move for you, I mean relatively new move, but the market's driving that way, right? >> Yeah. >> People starting to nod their head, and they're thinking, yep, this is where we need to be. >> Yeah, yep. >> So, what has been your strategy then, as far as facilitating what's no longer a trend, it's a way of life. >> Yeah, so I'd say first off, we are definitely unlike a lot of other players. We are a Cloud first company, in that, it's not a strategy, it's a way of life, so our entire application is built in and for the cloud, and by that I mean that it takes advantage of everything that the Cloud offers, right? And when you look at specifically AWS, a lot of backup software products use, well, they all use some kind of database, some kind of catalog to keep track of all the backups. And all of those catalogs, all of those databases, whether it's SQL Server or Db2 or Oracle, they all have scalability limits. We chose to use DynamoDB, which is an incredibly scalable no-SQL database. It's built and available in Amazon as a service, and then all of our products all run in Amazon, right? And so, we can scale both up and down to meet the requirements of a customer. So if we get a new customer. We had a customer that I can't mention by name, but they're a large company that started out with what we consider a small installation of about 10,000 laptops. And that was nice. And then it went well. And then there was a ransomware scare, and so they said, you know what, we're gonna go ahead and do everything. And so suddenly we needed to do 10 times as many laptops. Well, because of the way AWS is, we could scale both the database, the compute, and the storage all instantly to meet the demands of that client. And then once that's done, scale it back down to get back to a state of normal, right? So, for us the Cloud is sort of the core of who we are, and then the only expansion for us is actually protecting the Cloud. So, we've always used the Cloud as our destination, but now our newest offering, Apollo, actually is designed to protect starting with AWS and then expanding into the rest of the Amazon, well, I should say starting with EC2, and then eventually expanding into the rest of the AWS world. >> All right, so, with the tradition of endpoint protection and... >> You're gonna have to speak up, it's really loud in here. >> It's really loud, I'll make sure I'm yelling. So with the heritage that you've got of backing up endpoints and being able to protect endpoints, and now you're moving to protect Cloud workloads, as you say, you've got this Cloud heritage, but you're now looking at protecting workloads that live in the Cloud, what are some of the things that Druva's bringing from that endpoint knowledge that applies to those Cloud type workloads? >> Well I think the idea is that, you know, one of the things about the Cloud, people sort of view, I think there's steps of people using AWS, right? They sort of experiment, and they try out this and that, but once somebody really understands like we did, the things you can do when you can scale your VMs instantly and limitlessly, and your storage and your compute and your databases, once they go down that route, I think the fact that we, it's not necessarily the history of the endpoint itself, but the infrastructure that we built in order to protect those endpoints is already totally scalable and ready to meet the needs of however big of a workload that you'll put in AWS. >> Yeah, I often like to say that Cloud is a state of mind, so if you've already got that state of mind that I want to run my workloads in a Cloud-like way, well I want to be able to protect them in a Cloud-like way, and it sounds like that's really what you're trying to nail there. >> Yeah, and it's a big, because any like, I can look out and see multiple backup products available, and there's a lot of good backup products here. And any of them can run in the cloud, right? You can create a Linux VM or a Windows VM and install your backup software, but it's not going to magically become more scalable because you're running it in Amazon, right? So, designing the product for Amazon and that scalable way of doing things, that's why we talk about being Cloud native. >> Yeah, so how are you attracting customers who would have traditionally thought of you as an endpoint company. It's like, now you're actually saying, look we have these different offerings. So how are you starting to talk to those different kind of customers. How are you finding them and what is it that you're finding resonates with them as compared to some of the other options that they might have? >> Yeah, so as you probably know, I've been in the backup space now for, quarter of a century... (clearing throat) >> Literally wrote the book. >> Literally wrote the book, right? It's on O'Reilly. (laughing) Oreilly.com. >> We'll give you a plug later. >> Don't worry. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Literally wrote the book. >> Yeah, one thing I can say, there's a couple of things I can say about backups in general, in the average data center. One is, everybody hates their backup software. Right? Like, nobody likes it because it's so hard, right? It's so hard to configure, and using disc as a mechanism instead of tape as a primary mechanism, it's made things better, but it hasn't really solved it, right? It's still this really difficult to manage. There's this massive amount of infrastructure that has to be put in place to do all of that. And because that's so hard and it's so error prone and you're invisible or you're in trouble. No one cares about the millions of backups you get right, only the one restore you got wrong. And so what that translates into is the other truth, which is nobody wants to be the backup guy, right? >> I mean the way I got my first job in backups 24 years ago was a guy named Ron Rodriguez did not want to be the backup guy. >> Curtis, you're it. >> Yeah, you're it. And I within two months, had my first major failure as the backup guy for a 35 billion dollar company, and I thought I was done, I thought I was fired, like so many other backup people, and somehow just accidentally I ended up staying, and so what happens is, it's so hard. So, to go to your question, well what if it was simple, right? The situation is, the current system's not scalable. You're always buying another media server, you're always buying another tape driver, you're always buying another dedupe box. You know, you're always out of something, right? I remember having to go to my boss and being out of tapes. This is, you know, back when tapes were a thing. And I remember saying, "hey, I'm out of tapes." and she was like, we don't have budget." She's like, "what are our choices?" and I go, well, I can stop the backups. She's like, "that's not funny." I'm like, "that's our choice." Right? >> I have so much capacity here. >> These are our choices, right? And so she gave me the tapes that I needed, right? And so it's not scalable, the current system. You're always in need of some piece. It's also super expensive, right? And it's super hard. So we try to be the opposite of that. We try to be scalable, simple, and you know save people money. Right? I know we have a 4S thing. >> It's right there on the tip of your tongue. >> It's right there on the tip of my tongue. But basically we try to be the opposite of everything that backups are. So the big thing is, it's way easier. Just put a piece of software and magic happens, right? And if you're large enough data center that you need to do what we call seeding, where you have to use sneakernet to get the data to us, we have a system for that. If you have a large enough system where the RTO is not going to be able to be met by a copy that's on the other side of the internet, then we have a caching appliance that goes onsite to provide fast recovery. So it's like it's super simple, way less expensive. And I do mean way less expensive. I've seen some TCOs where we compete against other companies, we're even less expensive than renewing what you have, let alone going and buying. >> John: Replacing. >> And replacing it with something, because that happens all the times. Because people are always swapping their backup software, because the problem has got to be the backup software. Right? And I think in the end, it is, right? But, it's because that core architecture, that core way we've done backups, has essentially stayed the same since before I started. All we did was we changed tape to disc, right? And we introduced dedupe, which was great, but there's this technology that we call dedupe, that is really hard when you do it on the backend. You know, there's a company here who makes a lot of money on selling those appliances, right? Except it's really hard to do that, and so it's really expensive to do that. And then you gotta pay for one here and you gotta pay for one over there. With us, you don't buy that. You just go straight to us, and then because we're in AWS, it's already in three locations, right? And it's already offsite. >> Well Curtis, they said 24 years ago it wasn't gonna last, but it did. You made it, congratulations. >> Thanks. >> We appreciate the time here. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for being here with us on theCUBE and onto 175th. Next year who knows where you're going, right? >> Who knows where we're going. >> Excellent, Curtis Preston, joining us here from Druva. Back with more live from Las Vegas. We are at Reinvent at AWS. Back with more in a bit.

Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering AWS Reinvent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hello, welcome back. This is live coverage of the Cube's AWS re:Invent 2017. Two sets, a lot of action, day one of three days of wall to wall coverage. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Keith Townsend. Our next guest cube alumni is Yaron Haviv who's the founder and CTO of Iguazio, a hot new start up. And big news coming next. We got a big announcement. In following their work, Yaron, good to see you again. Thanks for coming back on. >> Hi, thanks! >> Hey you got a new shirt. Share that logo there. >> That's nuclio. That's our new serverless brainwork which is open source. Really kicks ass, it's about 100 times faster than Amazon. >> Word says it's 200 times faster. >> Yeah we don't want to shame. >> You set the bar. >> We doing 400,000 events per second on a single process. They do about 2000. Most of the open source project around the same ball park. >> Yaron, I got to get this off the bat. And then we can have a nice discussion afterwards. A pleasant discussion. Serverless. Let's first define what that means. Because there's a bunch of- I can take nuclio, install it in my data center, run it, am I serverless? >> You know so I mean I'm in the serverless working group. >> For CNCF >> for CNCF. And a we had a hot debate between the open source start ups. Doing what is called functional service and Amazon and others trying to push the notion of serverless. Which is serverless stands for server less. Meaning you don't manage server. And the way we position nucleo, it's actually both. Because on one end you can consume it as an open source project. Very easy to download. Single docker instruction and it's up and running unlike some other solutions. And on the other hand you can consume it as something within the Iguazio data platform. There is a slide from Amazon which I really like. Which is about serverless. They show serverless is attached to kinesis, DynaomoDB, S3 and Athena. Four services of data that attach to Lamda. Iguazio has API compatibility with kineses, DynamoDB with S3 and Presto, which is Athena as well. So exactly the same four data services that they position as far as the service ecosystem are supported on our platform. So we provide one platform, all the data services at Amazon has or at least interesting ones, serverless functions which are a hundred times faster, a few more tricks that they don't have-- >> So what is the definition then. In a pithy way, for someone out there who's learning about serverless. What is it? What's the definition? >> So the notion as a developer, you're sort of avoiding IT. You go, open a nice portal, you write the function, or you write your function in a get up repository somewhere. You click on a button and it gets deployed somewhere. Right now you know where it's going to get deployed. In the future, you may not know. >> Instead of an EC2 instance, get that prepared >> It's not really an EC2. >> The old way. The old way was. Right? >> The old way there were infrastructure guys building your EC2 instance, security layers, milware, etc. You go develop on your laptop and then you need to go and conform and all the continuous integration play was very complicated. Serverless comes inherently with scale out without the scale in, with continuous integration. You have versioning for the code. You can downgrade the version, you can upgrade the version. So essentially its a package version of a cloud native solution. That's the general idea. >> So I can do that if I'm doing it and managing it myself. It functions as a server. And if I'm doing it and it's a provided it as a cloud provider as a server, as a service, it's serverless. None of my operations team is dealing with servers. It's just writing code and just go. >> Yeah, you're writing a function. Push commit. You should play with nucleo, not just other things. But you'll see you're writing a function. Even see it has a built in editor. You write, you push deploy and it's already deployed somewhere. >> So give us some perspective before you move on. On the game what the impact is to a developer. Apples to oranges. Our old way you described it, new ways, it sounds easier! What's the impact? Is it time? Money? Can you quantify? >> The biggest challenge for businesses is to transform. I saw an interesting sentence. It's not about digital transformation, it's about businesses that need to work in a digital world. Okay? Because again, most of the communication of customers to businesses is becoming digital. Okay? Whether it's today from mobile apps tomorrow through Alexa. >> As Luke Cerney says, it's all software. Your business is the software. >> It's all about interactive really. Okay. As a business I always position there are two things you need to take care of as a business. One is increasing the revenue. And that's by engaging more customers. And increasing the revenue per customer. How do you engage more customer? Through digital services. Whether it's Twitters or proving a new service through your web portal. And the next thing is how do you generate more revenue from a customer is by showing recommendations. >> Finding more value. >> And the other aspect is operational efficiency. How do you automate your reparations to reduce the cost. You know Amazon uses robots to do the shipping and packing. So their margins can now be lower. So the generator is both those things. Reducing cost is becoming more and more dependent on automation which is digital. And increasing revenue become more about customer engagement which is digital. Okay so now you're a traditional enterprise. And you have your exchange to worry about. And all the legal stuff and the mainframes. But if you're not going to work on the transformation piece. You're going to die. Because some other start up is going to build insurance company which is sort of agile and all that. >> So you made an interesting comment earlier when you were talking about nucleo. And integrating the functions that really matter. The services that matter. Amazon releases 800 new services a year. >> Actually 1300. >> I'm sorry 1300. >> This time less, no? >> Right now they're at 1130 and they expect 1500, 1700 by the end of the year. Two years ago it was like 750 and then the year before that was 600. >> So is that an indicator as to Amazon's leading this race between the big, I don't know, three, four cloud providers. Rack and stack them for us. How do we assess the capability? >> It's a matter of mentality. Okay. Persos thinks like a supermarket. Just like an Amazon market. I could say I need a cover for my iPad. I'm gonna get 100 covers for my iPad. No one really, I need to now choose. So their strategy is we'll put dozens of services that do similar things. One is better at this, one is better at that. We control the market we'll sell more. We have a different approach. We do fewer services but each one sort of kicks ass. Each one is much better, much faster, much better engineered. Okay? This is also why we are on data plus provides 10 different data APIs and not 10 different individual data platforms. >> Alright so let's talk about the scoreboard. Even though they might be thinking about the supermarket. You've got Amazon, Azure Microsoft and Google. I've looked at some of the data. I mean, Microsoft's been international for a while from their MSN business. They now have Skype. They have data centers, they know a little bit about cloud. Amazon's got a lot more services. They support multiple versions of things. Google is kind of non-existent on the scale of comprehensiveness. >> Have you looked at their serverless functions? By the way? >> There's new stuff. Tensorflow, serverless. >> But serverless they only support an OJS. They have very few triggers and it's still defined as beta. >> That's the point, so people are touting my Forbes article. They're touting like a feature. There's a lot more that needs to get done. So the question I have for you is. There's a level of comprehensiveness that you need now. And I know you guys spend a lot of time building your solution. We've talked abut this at our last Cube interview. So the question is the whole MVP cousin, minimal viable product. Is great when you're building a consumer app for an iPhone. But when you start talking about a platform and now cloud. Question to you is there a level of completeness bar to be hurdled over for a legit cloud or cloud player? >> I don't think you need 1000 services to build a good cloud. But you do need a bunch of services. Okay? Now the way we see the world like Satya. Okay? Which is there is a core cloud. But there is sort of a belt around it which is what we call intelligence cloud. We would define ourselves as the intelligence cloud. So if someone is building a machine learning model and it needs a 5 year worth of data. And it just needs to do crawling on top of it. It's not really an interesting problem. It's commoditized, lots of CPO power, object storage. But the bigger challenge is doing game referencing close to the edge. This is what needs to happen in real time. You need fewer services but you need to be real time. >> Smarter integration to do that. Right? I mean. >> You have density problems. You don't have a lot of room to put a 100 servers. It needs to be a lot more integrated. You know look at Azure stack. Their slogan is consistency. Look at a slide that shows which Azure services are part of Azure stack. Less than 20%. Because it's a lot more complicated to take technology design whereas hyper scale and put them on few servers. >> How do customers figure it out? What does a customer do? It's all mind boggling. >> I love that concept of core services and then value around those core services. What are those core services that a cloud must have before I start to invest in that cloud providers strategy? >> So the point again, there's a lot of legacy that you need to grab with you. Especially someone like Amazon. So they have to have VMs and migration services from Oracle, etc. But let's assume I'm a start up and building a new client native applications. Do I need any of that? No. I can probably can do with containers. I don't really need to be VMs. I can use something like cybernetics, I can use sequel databases maybe some like sequel. So I can redesign my application differently with a lot fewer services. The problem for someone like Amazon in order to grow and be a supermarket, you have to have ten of everything. If I'm someone that focus on new applications I don't need so many services and so much legacy. >> Well I'll say one thing. You can call them a supermarket, use that retail analogy, I buy that analogy only to the extent that you used it. But if that's the case, then everyone's hungry for food. And they're the only supermarket in town. >> But Wholefoods maybe less stuff on the shelf. >> Everyone else is like a little hot dog stand compared to the supermarket. Amazon is crushing it. Your thoughts? I say that. Are they kicking ass? >> Obviously Amazon is kicking ass. But I think Azure is ramping up faster. Amazon is generating more alienation among people that they are starting to compete with. You know. >> Azure is copying Amazon. Right? >> Yeah. But they have a different angle. They know how to sell to enterprises. They already have the foot in the door for Office 365. I've talked to a customer. We're going Azure. I say why? >> Together: They've got 365. >> We already certify the security with 365 for us to use Azure it's a- >> Right up until that next breech. >> So the guys owning ITs, it's easier for them to go to Azure. The developers want Amazon. Because Amazon is sexier. >> We got to break. We debated this on the intro segment with he analyst. Question. IT buyers have been driven by a top down CIO driven, CXO driven waterfall, whatever you want to call it, old way. With developers now at the driver's seat, with all of this serverless function, serverless coming around the corner very fast. Are developers driving the buying decisions or not? Or is it IT? The budget's still there. They want to eliminate labor. They want more efficiencies. Are you seeing it again? Will it happen? >> Yeah because we are just in the middle. On one end we're an infrastructure. We're an infrastructure consumed by developers. So we keep on having those challenges within the accounts themselves. IT doesn't get what we're doing. Serverless, and database is serverless. Because they like to build stuff. They want to take the nutanix and take a hundred services on top of it. And it will take them two years to integrate it. By that time the business already moved somewhere else. >> So IT could be a dinosaur like the mainframe? >> Right. I think the smart ITs understand they need to adopt cloud instead of fight it. And more the line further up the step. And that sort of the thing we are trying to provide to them. When you are building stuff you are buying EMC storage. You are not just taking discs. So why do you focus on this low level block storage when you're buying infrastructure. Why no buy database as a service. And then you don't need all the hassle. Streaming is a service. Serverless is a service. And then you don't need all that stack. >> Yaron, you should be our guest analyst. But you're too busy building a company. We're going see you next week in Austin for Cubicon. Congratulations. I know you guys have worked hard. The founder and CTO of Iguazio. You're going to hear a lot about these guys. Smart team. They're either going to go big or go home. I think they're going to go big. Congratulations. More coverage here at AWS Re:Invent after this short break. I'm John Furrier with Keith Townsend.