>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Yukon and Cloud. Native Con North America 2020 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem >>Partners Everyone welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of Coop con Cloud, native con North America 2020. Normally the Cuba's in person. But like the EU event, this is gonna be a remote virtual event. This is the Cube virtual. We are the Cube Virtual. This is a keynote and show review with our analysts and hosts Lisa Martin, GOP Scar and myself. Guys, welcome to the program. Lisa, Great to see you. You great to see you remotely. Thanks for coming on. >>Always great to be part of the Cuban acute virtual keeping us connected. >>So Coop Con Cloud Native cons November and I remember in 2016 the first Coop Con. That's when Hillary Clinton got defeated by Trump. And now this year the election's passed this time and, uh, Biden the winner. So, you know, election more good vibes this year in the community because everyone was kind of sad last time. So if you remember the first Cube con, it was in Seattle during that time, so that was important to kinda reminisce on. That other thing I want to bring up to you guys is the somber news of the passing of Dan Con who was the executive director of C N C F. He passed a few weeks ago on his home. It was illness and great legend. So we're gonna call that out, and there are thoughts and prayers. Go with the families. Condolences to his wife and kids. So what? I'm say, Dan. Godspeed. Funny dance story, Lisa. Yo, piece that I always always pronounce his name wrong on the queue was like, John, it's con, not Cohen. Okay. All right, Dan, Good to see you. Sorry, but a great guy friend to everyone And super great human being. So rest in peace. Okay. Que con, I >>think the big thing. >>This you wanna get your thoughts, you have to start with you, C and C F. What are they up to? Obviously remote. It's been a terrible year with the pandemic and all the disruptions on DCI change your thoughts on where they are now, this year. >>So you know, it's funny, even though it's remote. Even though reaching people, it's become harder. Uh, you know, we all have to deal with this from our you know, our living room, our office at home. But still, the C in C F is doing what it's been doing for a little while now. So instead of focusing on the technology part of RT world, there are focusing on you know, the community side of it. So they're fighting for inclusivity. They're fighting for diversity, for resilience in terms off their community. And they are really working on making the open source community more accessible, both for end user companies. A swell as offer developers thio enter the space, have their contribution and, you know, make sure that everyone can reap the full benefits off these open source products. >>You know, we talked to Priyanka Sharma and Stephen Augustus, and this was a big theme. There's there's been there's been a lot of engagement online, obviously, even though they have a remote platform, some people are thrilled with it. Some aren't. No one's ever happy these days. It's on the Web. It's always difficult, but the community been activated and a lot more diversity. I covered the big story around. You know, Master slave. The terminology now is gonna go main, you know, terminology and how that's gonna be safer. Also for diversity stem women in tech, This >>has been >>a big theme. I'd love to get your thoughts on that, because I think that's been a very positive thing. Uh, Lisa, you and I have been talking about this for years on the Cube around this diversity peace. What's your thoughts as well, like to get both your reactions on where this directions going. >>Yeah. You know, I think there's a number of things that have been catalyzed this year by the challenges that we've been through and the diversity pushed into the spotlight again. The spotlight is different, and it's really causing change for good. I think it's opening people's minds and perspective, as is, I think, this entire time, you know, it's for events like Yukon and all the other events that were normally getting a lot of airline miles for John and you were not getting. We're sitting at home with our in home studios, but at the same time, the engagement is increasing in every event, I imagine that the great Q. Khan and cognitive community that Dan Cohen has built is on Lee getting bigger and stronger, even though folks are physically separated. That's been just been my observation and something I felt from everything show I've covered every interview I've done that diversity is being raised now to a visibility level that we haven't seen in terms of a catalyzing action. >>You your reaction, Thio. >>No, I completely agree. And I want to add to that where you know, just like Lisa said. You know, we used to fly to these events. We were privileged and lucky to to be there to have the opportunity. But because everything is now digital and virtual, it opens the community up to so many other people who, for whatever reason, weren't able to join in person but are able to join virtually indigenously. So I think you know, even though there's a lot of downsides Thio to this pandemic, this is one of the, you know, the small nuggets of off seeing the sea NCF community opening up to a broader audience. >>Yeah, and that's a great point. You know, we aren't getting the airline miles we're getting Certainly the zoom and the cube mileage remote Lisa, because what's interesting you're saying is is that you know, we're getting more action with him coming in, doing some or hosting yourself, um, Eliana Gesu as well, Others. But we can get people more because remember, the people aren't we're not trying, but so aren't other people that were coming the big names, but also the fresh voices, the new names, names? We don't know yet. I think that's what we're seeing with the remote interviews is that it's one click away from being on the Cube now. So cute. Virtual is 24 73 65 we're gonna continue to do that. I think this is gonna change the makeup of the engagement in the conversation because you're gonna have mawr participation that's going to be highly accelerated. But also, these new voices are gonna bring a positive change. It might upset the hierarchy a little bit in the working groups at the top you, But you know they're open. I mean, I talked with Stephen Augustus. He's totally cool with this Chris, and I check is the same way he's like, Hey, bring on more people. This is the >>This is >>the vibe of the of the Lennox foundations always been. >>It's always been that way. And, you know, going back Teoh to the early open source events in Europe that I went to you. I started doing that as a teenager 15 years ago, and the vibe, you know, hasn't necessarily changed. The makeup of the audience certainly has changed right from it, being dominated by white males. It's totally opened up. And, you know, if we see that happening with the C N C F now as well, I think that's for you know, for the better. I think, um, our community, the i t community in the open source community need that resilience. Need all of those different perspectives from all of you know, different kinds of people from different walks of life with different histories. And I think that only makes the community stronger and more viable in the long run. I >>agree it's that >>open source needs. >>Sorry, it's not thought diversity that I think we're seeing even more now again. Just my perspective is just that the light that this challenging time is shining on, exposing things that are really opportunities and it's I think it's imperative to look at it in that way. But that thought diversity just opens up so many more opportunities that folks that are maybe a little bit more tunnel visioned aren't thinking of. But for businesses, thio and people Thio thrive and move forward and learn from this we need to be able Thio, take into consideration other concepts, other perspectives as we learn and grow. >>Yeah, that's a good point. You know, It was giving a a shout out to Dan Conn. And when I heard the news, I put a clip. One of my favorite clips over the interviews was really me kind of congratulating him on the success of C and C. I think it was, like two years ago or maybe last year. I forget, Um, but I >>was a >>critic of it ever initially, and I was publicly on the record on the Cube. Lisa, you remember, uh, with Stew, who's now having a great new career? Red hat Still and I were arguing, and I was saying, Stew, I think this is gonna fail, because if c. N. C F doesn't balance the end user peace with the logos that we're coming because remember, you about four years ago. It was like a NASCAR logo. Farmers like you know, it's like, you know, everything was like sponsored by Google this and then Amazon came in. You look at the sponsor list. It was like It's the who's who and cloud and now cloud native. It was the industry the entire industry was like, stacked up against reinvent. This is before Amazon made their move. I mean, uh, as your maid, they're moving for Google. Cloud kind of got their footing. So is essentially coop con against a W s. And I said, That's gonna fail, and I had to eat my words, and I did. It was rightfully so, But the balance, the balance between end user projects and vendor was very successful. And that's still plays out today. Lisa. This is important now because you said pandemic de ecosystem still needs to thrive, but there's no face to face anymore. >>What's the >>challenge? What's the opportunity there? I wanna put you on the spot. >>Sure. No, I think I think it's both challenging and opportunistic. I tend to look at it more from an opportunistic view. I think that it forced a lot of us, Even people like myself who worked from home a lot before, when I wasn't traveling for my marketing company or the Cube. You can really have very personal interactions. The people on Zoom and I found that it's connecting people in a deeper way than you even would get in the office. That's something that I actually really appreciate, how it has been an opportunity to really kind of expand relationships or toe open new doors that wouldn't be there if we were able to be studying together physically in person. And it's obviously changing. You know, all the vendors that we work with. It's very different to engage an audience when you are on Lee on camera, and it's something that, as we know, is we work with folks who haven't done it before. That's one of the things that I think a lot of the C suite I talked to Mrs is that opportunity Thio. You know, be on a stage and and be able to show your body language and your energy with your customers and your partners and your employees. But I actually do think that there is what we're doing through Zoom and and all these virtual platforms like the Cube virtual is well, we're opening up doors for a more intimate way that I think the conversations are more authentic. You know, people are have, like, three year old Discover occurs and they're running in the room when they're screaming behind that. That's how things are today. We're learning toe work with that, but we're also seeing people in a more human >>way. Containers Mitch, mainstream and shifting, left the role of security this year. What's your >>take? So I mean, if we're talking about security and nothing else, I think we're at a point where you know, the C N C. F has become mainstream. Its most popular products have become mainstream. Um, because if we're talking about security, there's, you know, not a lot left. And I say that with, you know, a little bit of sarcasm. I don't mean to offend anyone, but if I did, uh, I do apologize, but, you know, security. Even though it is super important again, it means that we have, you know, moved on from talking about kubernetes and and container Management, or we've moved on from storage. Um, it means that the technology part of the C N. C. F. Like the hard work has been done for 80%. We're now into the 20% where we're kind of, you know, dotting the I's and and making sure that we cover all of the bases. And so one of the news sandbox sandbox projects that has been accepted, I think, today even eyes certain Manager Thio to manage certificates Uh, you know, at scale, um, in an automated fashion. And I think that's, you know, 11 prime example of how security is becoming the theme and kind of the conversation at Yukon this year where, you know, we're again seeing that maturity come into play with even with sandbox projects now being able to help customers help end users with, you know, certificates which is, you know, in in the the macro picture a very specific, a very niche thing to be able to solve with open source software. But for every company, this is one of those vital, you know, kind of boilerplate security measures so that the, um the customer and all of their infrastructure remains safe. >>I think you what You're kind of really articulate, and there is the evolution of CNC off much to John Surprises. You said you thought in the very beginning that this wasn't gonna take off. It has. Clearly, Dan Cohen's left a great legacy there. But we're seeing the evolution of that. I do know John. Wanna ask because you did a lot of the interviews here. We've been talking for, what, nine months now on the Cube Virtual about the acceleration of transformation, of every business to go from that. Okay, how do we do this work in this in this weird environment? Keep the lights on. How do we actually be successful and actually become a thriving business? As things go forward, what are some of the things that you heard from the guests regarding? Kobe has an accelerator. >>Well, I think I think a couple of things. Good. Good question. I think it ranges. Right. So the new They had some news that they're trying to announce. Obviously, new survey certifications, K a security certification, new new tech radar support, diversity stats. You know, the normal stuff they do in the event, they gotta get the word out. So that was one thing I heard, but on the overall macro trend. You know, we saw the covert impact, and no >>one's >>afraid of it there. I mean, I think, you know, part of the legacy of these tech communities is they've been online. They're they're used to being online. So it's not a new thing. So I don't think that the work environment has been that much of a disruption to the people in the in the core community. Linux Foundation, for instance, had a great shot with Chris and a sticker on this. He's the CTO. He's been the CEO, brought a senior roles. Um, in fact, they're they're creating a template around C N C f. And then they're announced The Finn Finn Ops Foundation. Uh, Jr store meant, um, is an executive director. That's part of the new foundation. It's a practitioner community. So I think, um, teasing out the conversation is you're gonna see a template model of the C N. C f. Where you're going to see how groups work together. I think what cove? It has definitely shown in some of the things that you guys were saying around how people are gonna be more engaged, more diversity, more access. I >>think you're >>gonna start to see new social constructs emerge around distinct user groups. And I think this Finn ops Foundation is a tell sign around how groups of people going to start together, whether they're cube host coming together on Cube fans and cube alumni. I mean, let me think about the alumni that have been on the Cube. Lisa, you know Tim Hopkins, Sarah Novotny. Chelsie Hightower. Um, Dan Burns, Craig MK Lucky. I mean, we've had everybody on that's now Captain of the industry. So, um, way had capital one we've had, uh, you know, lift on. I mean, it's becoming a really tight knit. Everyone knows each other, and I think now they realize that they have a lot of, uh, power to infect change. And so when you're trying to affect change, um, that's a good thing, and people are pumped about. So I think the big focus was, um, CNC have a successful again. It's there's there's a somber note around Dan cons passing, but I think he had already moved on to a new position. So he was already passed the baton to management, But he did leave a mark, but I think there's Priyanka Sharma. She's doing a great job. People are upbeat and I think the theme is kubernetes. It happened. It's went next level, then it's going next level again and I think that's kind of what people really aren't saying is kind of the public secret, which is okay, this thing's going mainstream. Now you're gonna start to see it in, in, In commercial deployments. You're gonna start to see it scale into organizations. And that's not the cool kids or the Emerging Dev ops crowd. That's I t. So you know you know it's gonna happen is like, Hey, you know, I'm a nice guy, our developer. What is this? It has toe work. Well, that's the big I think I think people weren't talking about That's the most important story. >>I think another element to that John is the cultural shift. You know, we were talking when we talk about Dev ops who was think about speed and I talked to some folks who said, You know, it's it has to be the I T. Cultures on the business cultures coming together in a meaningful way to collaborate in a very new way. Thankfully, we have the technology to enable us to collaborate. But I think that's been another underlying thing that I've heard a lot through recent times. Is that that facilitator of of cultural change, which is always hard to dio? And there's a bit of a catalyst here for organizations to not just keep the lights on. But to be successful, going forward and and and find new ways of delighting their customers, >>we'll get the final word. I just want to say my big take away to the show is and we'll go down the line. I'll start Lisa in Europe, you could go is the usage of cloud and multi cloud is here. Everyone sees that. I think there's a financial aspect going on with security. You're gonna be tied in. I think you see new sets of services coming built on the foundation of the C N C F. But cloud and multi cloud is here. Multi cloud meeting edges. Well, that is definitely on everyone's radar. That was a big theme throughout the interview, so we'll see more of that. Lisa, your takeaways. >>Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think one of the biggest things that I hear consistently is the opportunities that have been uncovered, the the collaboration becoming tighter and folks having the opportunity to engage more with events like Coop Con and C and C F. Because of this virtual shift, I think there's only ah lot of positive things that we're going to stay to come. >>Yep. Yeah, my point of view is I mean, open source is validated completely right? It's a viable model to build around software. On the one hand, on the other hand, the C and C s role in making that open source community broadly accessible and inclusive is, I think, the biggest win Thio look back at at the last year. >>Well, I'm super excited for moving on to the next event. It's been great pleasure. Lisa. You you guys are great co host Virtual Cube. Thanks for participating. And we'll see you next time. Thank you. Okay, that's the cubes. Coverage of Coop con 2020 cloud Native con Virtual This the cube Virtual. We are the cube. Virtual. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018, brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem of partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE. We are at CubeCon 2018 in Seattle, CloudNativeCon as well. We've been to every KubeCon and CloudNativeCon since inception. I'm John Furrier. My co-host Stu Miniman want to break down the three days of wall to wall coverage of the rise of kubernetes and the ecosystem and the industry consolidation and standardization around kubernetes for multi cloud, for hybrid cloud. We're here breaking down day one keynote, kicking everything off. Stu, it's fun to come here and watch words like expansion, Moore's law, expansive growth, doubling down. The attendance for KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, hockey stick growth chart on Twitter. 1200, 4000, 8000 up into the right. Global phenomenon, the team at CNC at KubeCon, huge presence in China this year, total expansion all to save, hold the line on the cloud tsunami that is Amazon's web services. >> Yeah. >> This is the massive cloud game going on, your thoughts. >> Yeah, John first of all. You have to start out just expansive growth and you can just feel the energy here. We're in the middle of the show floor. You were here two years ago in Seattle when I think they said, they were, was it 16? There weren't that many sponsors here. There's 180 booths at this show. The joke in the keynote this morning was if you want to replace your entire T-shirt wardrobe that's what you can do here. Everybody's got fun stickers. It's a good crowd. Those alpha geeks, this is where they are. >> And Stu, you're sporting a new T-shirt. >> Yeah, John so I want to thank our friends. >> Make sure they can see that. >> Our friends here, Women Who Go. They do the GoLang languages, the gopher is what they're doing here. So love that, if you're at the show, come by. Get our stickers. If you look up Women Who Go on thread list. They actually have an artist shop. The CNCF has their logo up there. We have their logo. There is blockchain. There's docker, there's all these and you can buy the shirts and the money for buying these shirts actually goes to bring women and underserved people to events like this. We also love John when they're supporting this. The CNCF actually, I think it was a 130 or so people that they brought to this conference through charitable donations from many of the sponsors. >> And that's one of the highlights I want to get to later is the mission driven and the social responsibility, scholarships, the money that's being donated to fund diversity inclusion in all walks of life to make CloudNative, but Stu lets get back to the core thing that's going on here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon. A couple years ago, I said, we said on theCUBE that the Tsunami, that is Amazon Web Service is just going to just hit ashore and just wipe out the industry in IT as much as it can go unless someone builds a seawall. Builds a wall to stop that momentum. Kubernetes and KubeCon specifically has had that moment. This is the industry saying look it. Cloud is awesome. It's full validation of cloud but there is more than just AWS. This is about multi cloud, hybrid cloud, and a lot of forces are at play competitively to make sure that Amazon doesn't run the table. >> Yeah, John, it's good to do a little bit of compare and contrast here because if you go back to OpenStack, it was OpenStack is the hail Mary against Amazon, and it's going to help you get off your VMware licenses. Well that's not what kubernetes is, if you look both VMware required Heptio, and Amazon have a big presence at this show. Amazon, their hands were forced to be able to actually work with kubernetes. I remember I read an article that said, there were about 14 different ways you can run kubernetes on Amazon before they supported it. Now they fully support it. They're going even deeper, AWS Fargate. I know you spend a lot of time at re:Invent digging into some of this environment here so this isn't, portability is a piece of kubernetes. Kubernetes won the orchestrator battles out there. It is the de facto standard out there, and we're seeing how this stack can really be built up on top of it. The thing that I've been keying in on coming into this year is how Serverless plays into it. You heard a big push for Knative on the keynote which is Google, who of course brought us to kubernetes. IBM, SAP, Red Hat all there but I don't see Microsoft or AWS yet embracing how we can match up Serverless and kubernetes today with the Knative. >> I think if I'm Amazon or Microsoft, I might be a little bit afraid of this movement because when, we went through the multi vendor days. You had multi vendoring decades ago. Now, multi cloud is the multi vendoring story, and what's interesting is that choice becomes the key word in all this and a real enterprise that's out there. They got Cisco routers, they got tons of stuff that's actually running their business, powering their business. They need to integrate that so this idea that one cloud fits all certainly has been validated. I think to me the winner takes most but what this community is doing Stu around kubernetes is galvanizing around a new stack configuration with kubernetes at the center of it, and that will disintermediate services at AWS and at Microsoft. Microsoft stock price has put that company in a higher value position than Google or Apple. What has Microsoft actually done to make them go from a $26 stock price to $100 and change? What did they actually invent? What did they actually do? What did they disrupt? Was it just go in a cloud? Is it Office 365? This begs the question is it just the business model shift so certainly there is business in the cloud and it's showing here at KubeCon. >> Yeah John, there was a major cultural shift inside of Microsoft I was really excited. One of the shows I got to go to this year was Microsoft Ignite, and in many ways it's interesting. That show has been around for decades and in many ways, it was the Windows admin just getting the latest and greatest. From my standpoint, I think it was Microsoft fully embracing the move to SaaS. They're pushing everybody to Office 365. They are aggressively moving to expand their cloud that that hybrid environment Microsoft has the applications, and they're not waiting for customers to just leave them or hold onto whatever revenue stream. They're switching to that writable model. They're switching to SaaS model. They're pushing really hard on Azure. They're here in force. They're really embracing developers, all the .NET folks, they were-- >> They're moving the ball inch by inch down the fields slowly to that cadence and that in totality with social responsibility and commencement of the cloud. I think has been, there's not one thing that's happened. It's just a total transformation for Microsoft, and the results and the valuation are off the charts. Google, the same way. Diane Greene has, I think was unfairly categorized by the press in terms of her exit. She's been wanting to retire for years Stu. She has turned Google around. You look at Google where they are right now verses where they were two years ago. Two years ago, they were slinging cloud the Google way. Now they're saying hey, you know what. We know the enterprise. Jennifer Lin, Sarah Novotny, Dawn Chen. All those people over there are leading the way real enterprise just with tech and they got some big moves to make, and they're doing it. So Diane Greene did not fail. So that was one thing that's interesting in the ecosystem and in Amazon as you know just kick it out. So given all that Stu, how does that relate to this? >> Yeah, let's bring it back here. So first of all, kubernetes. It was interesting the keynote this morning. We spent a lot of time talking about things that built on top of and around what's happening with kubernetes. Talking about things like how Helm is moving forward. Onvoy, Prometheus all of these projects. There are a couple dozen incubating projects and a few of them are graduating up to be full flanked projects. We talked about the ecosystem and how many partners are here. There's around 80 service providers and about 80 platforms that have kubernetes baked in. I want to point out an interesting distinction. Some people said, it's like oh they're 75 or 80 different distributions of it. I don't think that anybody thinks that they're going to make a differentiated platform that people are going to buy what I'm doing because I have the best kubernetes. Really what the CNCF has done a good job is saying you're fully supported. You're inoperable, you meet the guidelines to say, I am kubernetes and therefore it's baked into what we're doing. So why do we have so many of them? It's well, there's a lot of clouds out there. There's service providers and even the infrastructure players are making sure that they're in there. Everybody from Intel, all the way through. Servers and storage and networking all making sure that they're doing they're pieces to make sure that they work in the kubernetes environment. >> So Stu, I got to ask you a question on the keynote. You were in the front row. I was watching online here. Kind of distraction, sold out in the keynote. I didn't get the whole gist of it. How much of the keynote was vendor or project expansion verses end user traction? Can you give some color on that? >> Yeah, so a lot of it was the projects. What's really good is there's not a lot of vendors. Sure there is here's the logo slide. Let's everybody give a big round of applause and thank you. But when they put the projects up there, many of these projects came out of a group but some of that is well Lyft. Lyft created one of these projects and who's involved in that. One of the big news announcement was FCD is being donated to the CNCS, and well that came out of CoreOS to solve a really needed problem that they had to make sure that when you're rolling upgrades that you don't reboot the entire cluster all at once, and then your application isn't able to be there. So why are they donating? Well it has reached the maturity level, and while CoreOS is inside of Red Hat, there is a broad adoption. Lots of people contributing and it just makes sense to hand it over. Red Hat, everything they've done always is 100% open source, so them making sure that they have a good relationship with the foundation and who should have the governs of that. Red Hat has a strong track record on that. I know we'll be talking a lot-- >> All right so Stu get your perspective on the big players. We saw Google up on Saint-operno. We saw VMware. Cisco is here. I saw some of the Cisco executives here earlier. You got Red Hat, you got the big dogs here, Microsoft. What's the trend on the big players and then what's the trend on the hot startups either companies and or new wave in here? You mentioned Knative. So big companies, what's the general trend there and then what are you seeing on the interests around startups. >> So John, last year when I talked to users at this show. It was most of the people that were using kubernetes were building their own stack. The exception to that was oh if I'm a Red Hat customer, open shift makes sense for me. I can built it into what my model is. Azure had just come out with their AKS support. AWS had just been figuring out their ECS verse EKS and what they had. We're going to do before Fargate was down there. Today, what I hear is maturation of the platform so I expect Amazon and Microsoft to win more, and just I'm on those platforms. I'm using it, oh I want to use their kubernetes service that's going to make sense. So the rich get richer in this a lot way. Red Hat is going to do well, IBM is a strong player here, and of course sometime in 2019, we expect that acquisition of Red Hat to close. From a start up standpoint, there are so many niches that can be filled here. The question is how many of them are going to end up as acquisitions inside some of these big ones. How much of them can monetize because as I said with kubernetes John, I don't see a company that's going to say oh, I'm going to be the kubernetes company and monetize. Mirantis for a year or so ago was pivoting to be from the OpenStack company to the kubernetes company. Heptio was an early player and they had a quick exit. They're bringing strong skill set to the VMware team to help VMware accelerate their CloudNative activities. So in many ways John, this is an evolution more than a revolution so I do not see a drastic change in the landscape. >> Well evolution is cloud computing. We know that's going to yield the edge of the network and then on premise is complete conversions. This evolution is interesting Stu because this is an open source community vibe. You have now two other things going on around it. You have the classic open source community event, and you've got on the other spectrum, normal app developers that just want to right code. Then you got this IT dynamic. So what's happening and that will be interesting and we'll be watching this is how does the CNCF KubeCon, CloudNativeCon involve, and you start to cross pollinate app developers who just want our infrastructure as code. IT people who want to take over a new IT and then pure open source community players. This has now become a melting pot. Is that an opportunity or a challenge for the CNCF and the Linux Foundation? >> The danger is that this just gets overruned by vendors. It becomes another OpenStack that people get disenfranchised through what they're doing so absolutely there's a threat here. To their credit, I think the CNCF has done a really good job of managing things. They're smart is how they're doing. They're community focused. I have to say in the keynote John, if we noticed the diversity was phenomenal. Most of the speakers were women. They were one from end users. There are a couple of dozen end users that are now members of the CNCF. >> I think they're all CUBE alumnis too. >> Absolutely, and John, we've been here since the early days been tracking the whole thing. >> It's fun to watch. My opinion on the whole the melting pot of those personas is I think the CNCF and the Linux Foundation has a winning formula by owning and nurturing the open source community side of it. I think that's where the data is going to be, that's where the action is and I think as a downstream benefit, the IT market and developers will win. I would not try to get enamored by the money, and the vendor participation hype. I don't think they are. I'm just saying I would advise them to stay the course. Make this the open source community show of course, that's what we believe and of course we're CubeNative this week. We are here at the CloudNative and now we're CubeNative. This is the first day of three days of coverage. I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman breaking down the analysis, talking to the smartest people we can find, and also talk about some of the key players that are sponsoring the show. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break. (uptempo techno music)

>> Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live here in San Francisco it's theCUBE's coverage of Google Cloud and their big conference Google Next #GoogleNext18. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Adam Seligman, Vice President of Developer Relations at Google. Man, making it all happen, keeping the trains on time, keeping everyone motivated, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, glad to be here. >> So, first of all, take a step back, what is your job at Developer Relations? Are you herding cats, are you feeding them great code, are you overseeing a big team? Google's been very big on open-source, you've been part of the code program going back many many years. Google's always been a steward of open-source and developers are just devouring open-source in a big way right now. What's your job? >> I look after Developer Relations. There's around 20, 22 million developers in the world and we want to make every single one of them successful and build cool things, learn new technology, be part of community. That's something that's super important. I try to rally all of Google to sort of stand for developers. >> One of the big trends we're seeing now at open-source is that it's becoming such a good norm. I remember the days when I was getting into the business back in the late '80s, early '90s. Open-source, we'd kind of steal some code here and it kind of was radical. It's so normal now, and you start to see the clean, upstream etiquette, upstream projects, everyone's contributing, co-creating for a common good, monetizing downstream has been really well defined. There's some examples of probably where that could be better but for the most part, I think people are generally seeing a positive contribution. That's a community dynamic. How do you go to the next level for developers? Because this has turned out to be quite an opportunity to one: learn, meet new people, learn new skills and take advantage of some new technologies. How do you foster that community? What are you guys doing? Because no-one wants vendors to put their fingers in these upstream projects (laughs) but they're super important, they're all participating. What's the formula? How is that evolving? How do you see that? >> Google's been an open-source for maybe 20 years. Some big contributions early days, things like GCC, foundational compiler technology. And we have whole businesses that build around open-source, Chrome on the Web, Android for mobile, and now we see kubernetes in cloud and TensorFlow and AI and new things like Knative and Istio, so I think there's a course there where open-source can really shape whole ecosystems and create a lot of opportunity and a lot of innovation. And I think the challenge in all that is to do it in a really healthy, positive, community-centric way. And I think that's some real learning we've had in the last couple of years, is great leaders like Sarah Novotny have really helped guide us and her interface with open-source communities and foster the right kind of community interactions, and that's a big focus. We're trying to bring that here also. >> So, you had a keynote coming up, I know you got a hard stop and we want to try and get as many questions as we can. But I want to ask you, what are you going to be talking about at your keynote, what's the topic? 'Cos this is a, I won't say coming-out party for Google Cloud in particular, but clearly setting a couple stakes in the ground on what's going on. Enterprise focus, checking the boxes, table stakes are being met. And real tech: high performance, large-scale, really a good developer environment. What are you going to talk about at the keynote? >> Well, I think customers like HSBC and Target and others are coming to us, not for table stakes, they're coming to us for what's next. They're coming to us for massive-scale kubernetes, they're coming to us for AI. So, I think that the introductions we've had so far, things like the Cloud Services Platform, Istio 1.0, Knative, it really shows a bright future of service and AI-driven applications. What we're going to talk in the developer keynote, tomorrow, in day three, is really three themes: innovation, openness and open-source, and then that community theme that we were just talking about. And one area of innovation that we're going to talk about is Melody Meckfessel, who I think you talked to earlier, is going to talk about our approach to Cloud Build and integrated toolchains. We have a lot of technology we're going to open up in the DevOps space. But it's really a mentality, and this is the thing that I think is really needed coming to Google, is it's not just about pushing code down the waterfall to production, it's about building services for users and building services that the developers consume. And really flowing from code right out to running services, and then when you're done, the service is a turn on for everybody, you start routing traffic to it, you run canaries. So, it's a big step-change in how we think about continuous delivery and DevOps, we really want to land that in the keynote tomorrow. >> So I got to give some props to my partner, John Furrier, in 2010, John, you said, "Data is the new development kit." It was a while ago, and it's turned out, in my view anyway, to be true, but, Adam, it's also changed the profile of the developer. Data hackers, statisticians, mathematicians, artists. And so it's changed the way in which we think about a developer. I wonder, if you could talk about that, in terms of, how that's changed Developer Relations? >> Yufeng Guo is going to do a section AI in the keynote and he does these videos on YouTube that literally millions of people watch about how to get started on machine learning. And he's got a great line in there, which I think is attributed to him, that says, "AI is programming with data." And so I think we're in a world where all this data of user interactions and event streams and interactive things and mobile applications, we now have a lot of data to program the world on. And I think it's an incredible opportunity for developers. But the flip side, if we just restrict it to a couple thousand data scientists, it doesn't open up the world to everyone. So I think beyond that 20 million, what are the next 20 million we could pull in with AutoML? The next 20 million that can do SQL queries and can use BigQuery and do ML in BigQuery? So that's the vision of opening it up to more people, more developers. >> And the democratization of software, I mean, it's interesting, that's my background in software engineering, computer science, in the '80s you were called software engineering. Then it became software developer, then it became a software hacker. Now we're hearing words like software artisan. I interviewed Aparna, she said, "You don't need three PhDs, three degrees "in computer science, to do development anymore." The aperture's widening, big-time, because now craft is coming back to development. Because a lot of these abstractions, both on the business and tech side, are enabling different personas to come in. >> It's not legacy development anymore, it's heritage development, right?. (John laughs) I love that developers have the freedom to define their own titles and define their own tools they want to work with, and do a mix of the old and the new, and mix it up. So I think it's really important that we're not too narrow in how we define people and you don't have to be this tall to ride the ride, we really welcome everybody in to be a part of the community and if your entrance to ML is AutoML, but then eventually you graduate to TPUs, that's just fantastic. >> And how about crypto developers? They've exploded with innovation, what do you see in there? >> I could just go back to security, I think every company is really wrestling with security right now. How do they get two-factor everywhere? How do they stop phishing? How do they keep their employees safe? How do they have shielded VMs at every level of security? And it's a challenge to get developers to think about security sometimes. It's the operators that have to live with it, and so understanding your dependencies, way back up with developers are like, "Oh, I'll just use this library, "and I'll just use this library." How do you ensure you're using trusted dependencies back there, you don't have vulnerabilities you're introducing by taking dependencies in other codes. So I think there's a lot of education and best practice to share with developers to get them to care about security. >> My final question, I know you got to go. I just want to get it out there, years ago, when David and I used to hear on theCUBE, people come on, "We want to win the developers," no, they're not winnable. You don't win developers, you earn trust and you earn relationships and they might work with you and enjoy the services that they might provide to them. So I always kind of used to poo-poo that. But now with the Cloud you're seeing again, more range with developers. So, how do you keep developers happy? That might be a better question, because in order to earn and have a relationship with people who are going to be contributing IP and building IP, how do you keep harmonious relations? How do you keep people happy if you have things, like technical debt bothers people and people are like, "Oh, technical debt," you know, shipping codes, times. How do you think about that because keeping people happy is a broad answer, but in general, what's your view on keeping developers happy, harmonious, loving, working together, doing the things they love to do? >> It's a little different at Google, it's an interesting place, because there's never an "us and them" with developers, this is a company with tens of thousands of engineers on staff, most of the senior leadership team have an engineering background. So it's more like we live in the community of developers, my engineers are all over the world, living in developer communities. And so I think it really does matter how we show up and how we interact. But we sort of live it every day. So I don't think we have a hill to climb, so much as get to developers, I think we just have to have a really clear narrative, and then a really keen ear to listen to what they need and that's what I'm trying to orient them around. >> Listening, I think that's a great answer, listening. "What do you want?" you know, "What's important to you?" And then you have that perspective yourselves. Yeah, I mean, we're sort of a developer-centric company and I think the important thing is we put them at the center of everything we do, I use the word with my team, it's empathy. We have empathy for developers, you know, they have great jobs, great opportunities, but also great challenges, and as humans, can't we have empathy for them. >> I was hosting a panel one time, a night event, it was all out of fun, bunch of nerds on there were talking tech, getting on the hood, talking developers, all this stuff, range of questions, and one guy introduced himself as the, "I'm the CTO, I'm the Chief Toy Officer." (Adam laughs) Because we play with technology then we turn it into product. And you guys brought a lot of toys out here with Google, all this open-source. >> And then if we can amplify that for all the amazing talent that's in the world, at Google I/O, we host the developers' student clubs from Indonesia, and these young Indonesian women are teaching other college kids how to do android development. So, if we could bring that kind of magic to all of our assets, to the Cloud assets, I think there's this amazing, receptive community out there that could give us a bunch of whole new ideas that we don't just get in South of Market, San Francisco. >> It's inspiring to see people build things with open-source, pay it forward, contribute upstream, be part of a community, this is what it's all about, Developer Relations. Congratulations, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, so glad to be here, thanks guys! >> This is theCUBE paying it forward with content here from Google Next, all out in the open, co-creating with Google, Google's team, Google's customers, the best engineers, the best talent here at Google Cloud, I'm with theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, thanks for watching. Stay with us, more coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

from Austin Texas it's the cube covering cube con and cloud native con 2017 brought to you by Red Hat the Lenox foundation and the cubes ecosystem partners welcome back to the cube Silicon angle media's two-day live production of KU con and cloud native con ops to minimun my co-host for the same segment is matt Probert happy to welcome back to the program clayton Coleman who's the architect of containerized application infrastructure with the red hat clayton great to see you it's great to see you too alright so first of all 4100 people you impressed I am I'm hugely impressed every year this gets bigger and bigger the community is out in force people building on top of kubernetes and in the cloud any ecosystem around it for us and it's it's really phenomenal yes so John Fourier interviewed you last year at the Seattle show I think it's what triple the size the number of projects are gone from four to 14 but at the core I mean it's kubernetes and you spend you know quite a lot of your time tell us you know what have you been working on the last year I know what was it what's important in your life well I think the biggest things that we've really tried to focus on are making kubernetes a good foundation for both a community as well as for a technology stack because kubernetes is about empowering developers it's about empowering operations teams and we always anticipated there to be many levels and many ways of building on top of Rene's to make it an ecosystem so that people can build and deploy software but other people besides us can succeed and I think that's more than anything else in the last year it's about ensuring that everyone besides the kubernetes community is successful not just kubernetes itself yeah it's interesting when we think back to like Linux it's you know Red Hat you did quite well with Linux also you know from the enterprise standpoint from from the company we appreciate what Red Hat had did to make sure that Linux could be used by everyone seems like a lot of you know similar themes that we see but how could you kind of compare good drives Linux versus kubernetes today it's interesting everyone is a lot more conscious of open source and the idea of building a platform because of the example of Linux and so we've tried to actually be pretty conscious about that which is we want there to be a strong community we want there to be a technical respect among not just the core of the project but also the different layers and the cloud the cloud native Foundation has actually done a really good job of bringing together mutually complementary technologies but also helping and support those communities from a RedHat perspective a lot of the things we work on our stability security reliability we also work on extension because extension to us allows us both to support customers but also to help the open source ecosystems that we depend on that I'm sorry just for audience can you explain what extension is sure extension is actually it's a number of things in kubernetes we really want you to be possible if we're gonna build in kubernetes things that make running applications easier we want everyone else to build their own tools that make it easier to run applications and we don't want to be opinionated and kind of the same way as maybe some other ecosystems about who gets to build what instead we want to open the doors for vendors for partners for deployers for individual users to build their own extensions and points of contact with kubernetes to really solve their own problems we can't solve all those problems but that plays really nicely into it right the cloud native foundation has gone from four projects to 14 that's right just a year and you're talking about the extensions what do you want people to take away from that proliferation of projects that are all being supported and seen as essential to the eCos kubernetes it takes the spectrum we want we want everyone to be able to use kubernetes and to use the other projects either independently on their own but I think a lot of us in the kubernetes community in the CN CF communities believe that a lot of these tools work really well together and finding new opportunities to make it easy to work together so Prometheus is a great example it's exploded across the ecosystem I think at the last cognitive con Prometheus was really the talk of the show and I think what I've seen is that a lot of people around the ecosystem not just in that core community on a very specific project I've taken the ideas that underlie that technology I tried to apply it to other things that they were doing so you see people building integrations into Prometheus you see in flux DB working with Prometheus to share data press a lot of really exciting cross collaboration and the end goal really is to make building and running applications easier which is something we really believe in as well all right you use the word a spectrum when you talk about users out there there's lots of them that are kind of in the 101 phase we know there's people doing things through production what are you seeing you know kind of the help us walk through some of the spectrum as to where customers are what you're seeing some of the big challenges that they're facing in spectrum really there's no other word because the range of people using kubernetes in production and development is so incredibly diverse I would say the two extremes are people who are today deploying micro services based production applications on public cloud and they're bringing you know three or four or ten or 100 applications it might be a two or three developer team and they're really finding a lot of value in that because kubernetes is taking a lot of the heavy lifting and they can rely on that to keep their applications running into rapidly deploy on the complete other end is giant corporations people with you know decades of investment in IT finding ways to use kubernetes and OpenShift which is the product that Red Hat ships around kubernetes to empower you know tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of applications and in those models kubernetes is just one small part of the larger hole and this is where ecosystem really comes into play in the middle I think we're starting to see a lot of really exciting things as people have the they've got their one team working together and they as they start reaching out and bringing other teams as companies grow as they say find more reasons to use kubernetes they start asking questions like well how do I have all these teams working together without impacting the other teams and that's where multi-tenancy that's a real specialty for Red Hat and OpenShift is multi-tenancy and we're actually really excited to work with people in the community to build out these technologies at many different levels to have you know kind of that spectrum tart to spread from the middle as well you know one of the things coming into this show you know the last year or two was like okay who's gonna win kind of the orchestration battle and it's like okay kubernetes you know here it is well now there's like 42 different providers you know open ship being one of them where does Red Hat you know look to add value to the customers is it just a piece of the platform how does Red Hat look at it and how to customers when do they come to you when do they say you know oh wait I'm just gonna go build all my own pieces and and use some of the Red Hat pieces I if working with open source and Linux has taught us anything it's that one of the key components of a successful story is a distribution the idea of curating making a few choices making it easy to bring things into that distribution and we've actually started to really apply the distribution mindset to kubernetes so if you look at openshift it is a platform it has two that help you run tens of thousands of applications together with tens of thousands of users to bring operational control but it's hard it's about taking the best technologies in the community and bringing them together and so I would actually expect over the next year or two to start seeing the idea of the distribution emerge in kubernetes in the cloud native ecosystem where you know we won't it's not ever gonna just be one company dominating open-source that's not how open-source works I would expect to see an effort at thinking about kubernetes is before the kernel if you will and bringing together all of the successful technologies like the ones that we've seen at cloud native con here today and bringing even more of them letting people mix and match to find the solutions that work for them I really like that view of a - because you're saying that the open source at its core is open and unup enya nated while distributions are an outlet to have opinion in refined business problems so how do you see that playing out a little bit there's always going to be some trade-off when you make choices for people and so I think the way that we look at it is we try to make choices that make sense when you're dealing at certain scales when long term support and life cycle becomes really critical you know if you can't afford a production outage because you have 10,000 applications running together then it becomes really important to focus on those but at the same time we actually expect there to be different choices and trade-offs to be made and we'll want to actually encourage people to mix and match the different parts of the ecosystem and what patterns are you seeing in enterprise readiness or any enterprise feature sets that are combining into what you hope to see out of the distribution at the heart of its security tends to come up a lot you know everybody everybody who's making the leap from we made the leap from bare metal to virtualization and then at a large number of management platforms grew to encompass it and virtualization brought its own changes containers were starting to mature and how we understand how the software lifecycle works with containers how it works in large multi-tenant environments I think the next step will be as we become more mature that a lot of these patterns will be baked in and so you'll see you know standard solutions we all kind of need to work together to make those standard solutions happen we're actually seeing that in a number of the things you know even today I'll talk about the CNC F conformance profile for kubernetes it's a new effort that intends to take the tests that we use in kubernetes to make sure it's working correctly and use that to say this is something that you can rely on every kubernetes distribution also supporting and just like any other mechanism that we use to make sure that we're delivering something that is stable and predictable across a wide number of spaces I would expect in the future to see things like conformance for multi-tenancy conformance for security specifically in cube and to see vendors bring their own approaches partners ecosystem players integrating their solutions and then new open-source solutions fitting into that as well the keynote this morning there were a lot of these projects you know getting to the next Rev Cooper net is gonna be a 1.9 many of the underlying kind of supporting pieces are hitting kind of the 1 dot Oh out there your top contributor for kubernetes what's that experience like today lots of new people still coming on how's the balance of kind of the you know few that are heavily involved versus kind of the majority when we started kubernetes it was a very there's an interesting mix it was a lot of engineers working on very concrete ideas things that we'd want to try to bring to fruition together in the community and it's been a very deliberate goal over the last two years to broaden that into a successful and healthy open-source ecosystem which means a lot of mentoring which means working to find the different ways that people can contribute in an ecosystem Sarah Novotny from Google often uses the chop wood carry water analogy there's many different ways that people can work together and everyone has a spot so we spent a lot of time being very deliberate about being open trying to organize ways for new contributors to get oriented and to bring their value but at the same time we actually want to mentor and grow the next level of technical leadership in kubernetes no I won't be here forever and I don't want to be here forever I want people to replace me in the open-source community because that's a healthy community yeah I think the stratification of contribution is one of the number-one signs of success from from my perspective and I see a distinct different invitation for each type of user so you have the user you have the administrator and then you also have a developer are there any things you've noticed changing in one of those patterns that like really hits home for you I think the developer pattern is the most interesting you know there's a lot of focus on how do you use kubernetes in many different ways and a lot of developers want to get their hands on and dig in and so there's actually been a lot of great community projects that are focused on making kubernetes easy to consume at a small scale all of that then ties back into well in kubernetes we want to be pretty opinion if we're going to be a kernel there needs to be a space for things like the compiler and the programming language distributions I'm actually hoping that we can keep that focus on making sure there's a good set of projects in the ecosystem that meat developers where they are so that they can start using kubernetes and then I don't want to say trick but trick them into becoming contributors and help us get that feedback about how we can make Rene's better helping to paint the fence is very fun that's right all right Clayton last question I have for you you're doing two keynotes this week give our audience that you know won't be there in person give us a taste for that and especially want to hear kind of the outlook for kind of the next 12 months through 2018 sure so my first keynote tomorrow is a just a real quick one I'm going to try and convince everybody that kubernetes should be boring and I'll leave it at that you know boring is good in very specific ways boring equals mature right I would certainly hope so and on Friday I'm gonna talk about what's coming up in the kubernetes ecosystem in 2018 a lot of people have finally jumped on board the kubernetes bandwagon and what I'd like to do is kind of help people find those exciting projects to get involved with if if we're gonna have a vibrant ecosystem and community helping people understand where they can get involved and to find the things that match their interest is going to be really important okay anything specific that you're super excited about looking forward to next year or any project or I've got to say and this is not a it's not a company line but sto is incredibly exciting because one of our goals with kubernetes was always about making it easier to run applications and sto and the idea of service mesh is taking that to the next level and I actually hope to see even more projects like that over the next few years in the ecosystem that solve things like server lists and databases of service and I think we're actually starting to really see that develop yeah well companies are all looking to move faster get those applications up and running this do definitely one of the ones we heard buzzing before the show Clayton Coleman thanks so much for joining us again hope to catch up with you again soon for metroburg I'm Stu Mittleman we'll be back with lots more coverage here from the cubes coverage of KU con and cloud native con 2017 here in Austin Texas you're watching the Q you

>> Announcer: Live, from Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next '17. (funky techno music) >> Welcome back to our live coverage here of Google Next 2017, an event that last year was focused only on Google Cloud. They've actually expanded a bit, they're talking about G Suite, talking about some of the devices, and they bring in a really broad and diverse community, so when I talk to the Google people, it's not one show, it's a handful of shows. I went to the analyst event. My guest for this segment is Chris Wahl, who came in through the community event. So, excited to get that angle. Chris, thanks so much for doing the drive with me from San Francisco down to Palo Alto. For those of us not in the area, it's a 45 minute drive, it's not too bad. It's a beautiful, sunny day. It's great to catch up with you and thanks for coming. >> Always glad to be on, love being a CUBE Alumni, so, I think it's my third time. >> Wow, a three-time Alumni. It's like if you've been a host of Saturday Night Live for like seven times, you know you get the special jacket. - Automatically. >> Things like that. You're getting up there. Three times. It's like, you're not quite in Pak Elsinger area, but you have passed, you've been on more than Andy Jassey now. >> Wow, cool. >> I think that that's pretty impressive. >> Bucket list, accomplished. >> Exactly, so, what brings you to the Google event and tell us a little bit about the community event. >> Yeah, to be honest, I thought it was a spam email at first. I just got an invite saying, hey, we have this Google event going on, and I'm not really plugged in to the Google Universe too much. So I said, cool, I'm interested, I'll take a look. Got invited out by Sarah Novotny to a community focus day. >> Host: Sarah's awesome. Also a CUBE Alum, of course. >> Yeah, Alum, and ran OSCON I think, as a boarder or some kind of management facility for quite a while. So yeah, the Google Cloud Next is this week but on Tuesday. They actually had a bunch of influencers, evangelists, community members, out to spend time with all sorts of Google-y Google-ers, talking around what their vision is around kind of bridging the gap to the enterprise, what their thought around Kubernetes, and just really the community in general were. Which was kind of cool because it was all fresh and clean and new for me. So, it was really great to taste the Kool-Aid, and see how delicious it could be. >> Yeah, so I'm curious what your take is. I remember I did a panel at Interop a couple of years ago, and it was like, basically, hyper-scale, you're-not-Google, so what do you need to do, how do you do it, do you just use Google stuff, can you code like Google, can you act like Google, or are you just an enterprise and you're forced to live in the past. >> I think over the last couple of years, the idea of the Sight Reliability Engineers come out and been more focused on the enterprise and kind of dovetailed into the Dev-Op story. So, it was really interesting to hear, not only trying to talk to the enterprise, but also how they're trying to get the enterprise to kind of stop being the traditional enterprise that it's been. Which I think entirely, it's something that we practitioners have always been trying to do. No one wants to be on-call all the time and fixing these flaming disasters and things like that. But at the same time, you have to recognize that moving that much intrinsic culture poison from one side to the next is hard. They're admitting that too, it's like, we wold love for you guys to be more Google-y, and to use the tools that we have here, but we're not sure you even know what the tools are or how to use them, or what kind of documentation is necessary, or what meet-ups we can go to find my people, you know, the practitioners. >> I want to channel our friends, the Geek Whisperers, and alright Chris, so how did you transition out of being a VMware guy to someone that does cool and interesting things now, because VMware is no longer the coolness. >> That's been the vibe, yeah. It's something I personally have been trying to, I don't think in any technology you want to be that technology specific. VMware, love it, have been doing it for 12 something years, but you don't just want to be pigeon-holed in that kind of silo. Which is actually why I wanted to come out and talk with the folks at Google around what they're doing to build a community. I think it was Sam something-or-other-- >> Host: Sam Ramji. >> Sam Ramji actually came up and said, you know, as long as we're going to exist as a company, we're going to have this community day. It's the first one they've done, and they plan to do it basically infinitely forever, because they realized they had the analysts, and things like that out there, they had all the engineers and developers, but what were they missing? The folk in the trenches that are trying to adopt and use this sort of technology. I like that aspect of it. There weren't any huge, mind-shattering results that were out there, except for I think, me personally, I like that Google kind of admitted that yeah, they hadn't been doing the best job around interfacing with the community and getting IT practitioners and operation-centric folks into the fold, welcoming into the bosom of Google, and that they were trying to work on that. And it's like, okay, awesome. Let's have a conversation, which the other half of the day was an un-conference, where we literally broke up into groups, that we decided ourselves as like a democracy of Google decision-making. We formed eight different groups. Some focused on containers, I actually sat in in a two hour session where we just kind of riffed on abstraction layers and where we should we start working. Is it at the container level, is it at the hypervisor level, is it at the virtual machine level? And it was neat because everyone had a completely different idea and background around that. I felt like I was an alien in that conversation for a lot of it 'cause they're working on solving problems that are totally alien to my world. So I liked all that. >> It's an interesting crowd when the server-less stuff got talked about in the keynote today-- >> Yes! >> There was a big clap and I loved Brian Stevens. He's like, functions are just fragments of code, and they get applause, you know, he's kind of like-- (Chris laughs) >> It's like either remark, I got applause for that. >> Yeah, yeah, it's pretty funny. But you know, that's the kind of people that come to this show, right? So, you checked out a thing called, what was it, Code Labs or something like that? Maybe you could talk a little bit about that. >> Yeah, yeah, there was, I had some notes there that I'd written down. Certification in Code Labs, specifically. So Code Labs was interesting 'cause it's a place that you can, you have to book it in advance, like a day in advance, and from about 11 to seven each day, they just have Google-y Google-ers, you know, very Google-y people out there that say alright, here's all our various APIs, such as the new one where you can query a video and say I'm looking for, I think in the keynote, they had "find me baseball" in this video, and it actually shows you in the timeline where baseball occurs. There's also things to do image tagging and things like that. And, I don't know, it might be difficult to grasp that API interaction at first. And so you can sit down, and they'll show you how to write code in the languages of your choice. Obviously Go is very prominent. I'm a PowerShell developer, so it's like, alright, how would you write that in Curl, and that's maybe our bridge to one another, since I don't know Go and they don't know PowerShell, or the person I was working with. So that was cool, to hear how they approach those things, because I've typically done it as an Ops person. I'm typically looking at it from the perspective of I'm trying to automate some task and feed it into an orchestration engine. And I'm not super deep on APIs in general, I like them, but ... That was cool, I liked that you're basically getting to meet with really, really awesome engineers and SREs to pick their brain and their vast decades of experience on writing code. To work with APIs and things that are Google-centric. So that was awesome. >> So it sounds like you didn't feel like this was a marketing show, right, - [Chris] No! >> that they bring in the engineers, the technical people, I mean it's not far being from San Franscisco from the Google-Plex, the Mothership is nearby. >> Thats's a good point because a lot of these shows have just become a sales pitch in a wolf's clothing or a conference clothing, and this was ... I've never met so many really, really talented engineers all concentrated in one spot. I mean, you've got the rock stars that I think everybody knows, like Sarah, and Kelsey, that are very available and personable, but you also have a whole army of people that have a huge amount of passion around writing code and understand what your problems are and wanting to talk to you. I felt like a person, which I've been a Google customer since, I guess, Google came out, you know, Google apps and things like that. This is really the first time I really started putting faces to the technical practitioners that work there, and they're really interested and excited with what my mundane kind of problems. So, that's kind of cool. >> Yeah, I found they're definitely, they're listening, they're talking, it's really good, because right, we at our firm, we've used Google for a while and it's like, oh wait I have a challenge. Who do I call, who do I email? Nope, you should just watch the YouTube video and use it. C'mon, aren't you smart enough to use these things right? You know, was kind of how we all felt for a while. Interesting. Kinder, gentler Google than we've knew in the past? >> They had the Google leaders circle and the various groups that you could join online, but it was just, you can't fake that kind of raw passion, and I sat down with some of the SREs at the community day, and it was really just, talk to me about what you do, and why, and what tools you use, and what can we do to be better? More specifically, the Dev Rel, the developer relations folks were just awesome. And they're like, is our title threatening? What meet-up should we go to? What can we do to make your life better? And I just kind of, at first, said a few comments and realized, no, this is real. They want to know my day one and day two operations, so that they can find the right tools, or if there isn't one, build one. And I don't know, that's great. I've never seen that at a conference before. So I'm hooked. I definitely plan to go again. >> Alright, so anything you didn't see that you were hoping to see, follow-up that you want to have, other cool stuff going on that you want to share? >> I almost want to do like a plea to Google that throughout the community today and at the conference, there's been a lot of commentary and some, kind of some references to, oh we don't want to tell you how to do things, we don't want to tell you how to build architecture in a certain way. Please do tell me how to do those things. At least give me a reference architecture, or some example environments, because I feel like a lot of it is just, here's some cool things you can do, kind of in isolation. Or here are some things with Kubernetes that kind of exist outside of reality. I'm looking for, alright, I don't have any of that stuff, how do I onboard into that? Here's a white paper, and that kind of jazz. >> Yeah, and we saw, you know, I hate to always bring up AWS, but AWS went from here's this giant toolbox with all these things to right, here's some services, here are some tracks, here are some, not wizards, but you know, templates you can follow for certain things. Here are people that are probably similar to you and, boy, with Google with their AI and ML and all their things that they can do to help us sort out all the TLAs that they've got to. (Chris laughs) You know, they should be able to help going forward because, yeah, Google should be able to personalize all that to be able to work a little bit better for us as opposed to us having to just kind of figure it out a little bit. I know you played with the Google Cloud a little bit yourself-- - Yeah. >> And it wasn't as simple as you were hoping, right? >> It was hard. (both laugh) I mean-- >> Host: C'mon, if you can't figure it out, you know-- >> I don't feel like I'm the sharpest tool in the shed, but I was like, I'm kind of the representative layman ops person, and it felt very convoluted, complex, the documentation was fragmented. I'm like, just give me the wizard so that I can start fishing for myself. I just do that first hit for free, and then I'll take care of it beyond that. So, that would be my one ask to Google as a whole, but otherwise I think the tooling and the people, and the culture are all there, it's just build a few more things and I think we've got some interesting entanglements at the enterprise level once that's done. >> Okay, want to give me the final word, what's going on with you other than, your hometown, your new hometown of Austin, Texas. South By coming, so I know there's a lot of music and fun going on but, what's happening in your world, what's happening with Rubrik? >> Oh yeah, I'll mention South By, definitely will be there, I will not be available online or anything. I'm going to be going into sequester mode and just listen to music with my co-host actually. If you listen to the Datanauts podcast, with Ethan Banks, he's going to come by. So, we'll be at the show I guess if you want to hang out with us, hit us up. Otherwise, Rubrik's been awesome. It's definitely a rocket ship ride and it was actually dove-tailed into quite a few conversations I had while at Google Next. Because movement of data into and around clouds is non-trivial, so that's where the Cloud Data Management world that we're in, kind of fits into that equation, and why I personally wanted to go to this show, but also professionally I thought that there'd be some inroads there to discuss with the other practitioners. >> Absolutely, the whole infrastructure side and how that plays in the public cloud, how it plays with Sass, there's a lot of those discussions going on. Congrats, you guys have been growing some good buzz. You guys have been hiring, too, so check Chris out for all that. We'll be back, lots more coverage here of the Google Cloud Next 2017, you're watching theCUBE. (funky techno music)