>> Announcer: From Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by The Cloud Foundry Foundation, >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman and this is the Cube's coverage of the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 here in Boston, Massachusetts. Happy to welcome back one of our earliest and favorite guests of the Cube Chad Sakac Who's at Pivotal now and he handles PKS and Dell technologies. Chad, great to see you, thanks for joining us, welcome to the Boston area, you come through this area a lot but it's great to see you. >> It's good to see you too. This is, by the way, my first CF summit. So it's interesting, you and I have talked together at Dell Technologies World, Dell EMC World, and EMC World for years. >> Stu: VMWorld. >> And VMWorld. This is a different scene. >> Alright Chad, this is my third time doing this show. I was at the first one back in 2014, last year we did the Cube there; every year it's like 'oh wait, there's this cool new technology; containers, maybe, how's Pivotal going to deal with that? This year, wait, Kubernetes, cloud natives everywhere. Maybe give us your point of view, as to how this fits in. >> So I feel like I'm a kid in a candy store. My job inside Pivotal is to drive PKS. Pivotal Container Service, that's built on top of Kubernetes. And there's a lot of Kubernetes action occurring here. If I had to net it out, I'd say a couple things. Number one, we've moved past the early hype cycle, and actually went through several hype cycles that blew up, so Docker is going to take over the world, not correct. What turned out to be correct is Docker would become the container standard, right? >> It's Mobi now, right? >> Right. Then, we went in to the battles of different cluster container managers. It's Swarm, it's Mesos Marathon, it's Kubernetes and there were lots of others, and then you get through that early hype period and things settle down to the point where they're actually productive, and everyone now kind of agrees, that Kubernetes is the standard container cluster manager for broad sets of workloads, great. Now the debate is Cloud Foundry, the structured PaaS-World, right? The structured platform opinionated, versus the little more wild west and open eco system of Kubernetes, and then early stage Kubernetes projects, like Istio and others, right? I think this has two chapters now, in front of us. Number one, and this is my focus I think for the next few years, is how do we make Kubernetes simple enough, easy enough, and frankly, enterprise ready. Not that it's not ready today, but a lot of Kubernetes projects that our customers are all over the map, difficult to sustain. We want to bring a lot of the lessons learned over the years of Cloud Foundry to Kubernetes. And I'm happy to say, that just a couple days ago, we released PKS 1.O.2 and 1.1, which we haven't announced the date but we've always said that we're going to be in constant compatibility with GKE, and the core Kubernetes. Since GKE shortly will have Kubernetes 1.10 support you can expect a 1.1 of PKS. So mission number one is make Kubernetes a great platform, and I am determined and stubborn, and will make PKS the best enterprise platform for customers that are putting workloads on Kubernetes. That said, Kubernetes isn't steady still and neither is the ecosystem. And you can see that there's a lot of discussion over what is the intersection between Cloud Foundry and Kubernetes? I think that over time it's inevitable that these things come together more. But again, I think that's going to occur over years. Not in a heartbeat. >> And even, I've been at the Kubernetes show and have been at this show a few times, it's not a monolithic stack, we're building distributed, lots of different pieces. You go to the Cloud Foundry, I'm sorry, the show that's Kub-Con, there's so many different projects there, I mean Istio was all the buzz, talk about the service national, there's all these little pieces there. And at this show, we're talking about Zip Car came and talked about they love everything in this eco system. They don't use some of the core components, but they use all these other pieces. As you and I've talked many times, Chad, people go read, Chad writes a little bit about some of these things to give you all the details there, but this stuff's pretty complicated. There's some in the Kubernetes community that's like it's never going to get simple. Remember when we thought Cloud computing was simple? And if you've been to any Amazon show and you go through, it is more complicated to configure a compute instance at Amazon, than it is to buy a Dell server these days. Because there's more options out there. Look, customers need options, many of them want things to be packaged and serviced and buy it as a service, but some love to put those pieces together and it's a spectrum and I loved at this show, Google and Microsoft up on stage, talking, 'hey, open communities, collaborating together'. Maybe not merging everything, but working together, understanding where things fit and it's not one or the other, it's many customers will choose both. >> You and I are both nerds at heart, I hope you don't take offense to that. >> I've already been doing Star Wars quotes this week. >> I wear it with pride. I'm always fascinated by the technology itself, but one thing that's been really cool about my experience alongside, and now inside Pivotal, and you can see it here at the CF Summit, is that the Pivotal obsession, is about the customer and the outcome. We build a platform that is an essential part of that, but teaching the world how to build better software is a noble mission. And the thing that's the most exciting for me is actually when the customers talk. So if you went to any of the customer discussions, did you see any of them, did you see the T-Mobile one? >> I saw T-Mobile up on the key note, I actually did an interview with T-Mobile. Had an interview with US Air Force. >> The Air Force One is amazing. >> Awesome. >> It's fascinating, from a technological standpoint, to say how do you use these tools? But it's the story of what you do with it, that actually matters so much more. I'll leave the, no, I won't leave the customer name out of it. So in talking with the T-Mobile crew, they love the Pivotal application service. So they are using it, it's an essential part of how T-Mobile works. They talked about it on stage, that's why I don't mind talking about it. And if you ask them, it's not an or. They also have massive projects, massive application workloads, that don't fit in PaaS, but are Docker images, they're currently doing some strange stuff with Swarm, and blah blah. And they're like 'Man, if you guys can basically deliver a great platform that we can consume instead of trying to construct and maintain, we trust you, you iterate with us, you work with us, we'll be able to focus more on the outcome. The thing that I'm actually going to be the most curious to hear feedback from customers over the next couple of years, is how do they navigate what workloads are best put into Kubernetes, how does Kubernetes sets of ecosystems start to not calcify, but firm up, right? It's going to be loose. But it will start to align more over time. >> Yeah our research team actually calls it, we need to get to a place where it's plastic. It should be not just scalable up and down but side to side a little bit more too. Once you have it, you can be able to go. >> Figuring out over time, and helping, with customers, figure out 'Hey, this is a Kafka or Crunchy data.' Post grass instance, or it's an ISV stack, or it's an application they've home grown, but they don't want it fully compartmentalized and put on paths, and they decide that they want to put it on Kubernetes, awesome. What is the value and the return of doing further work on that app to really make it Cloud Native, pull out all config, turn it into sets of small micro services, and then it's better fit for the PaaS part of PCF. Figuring out that formula over the next few years is going to be really cool. >> You mentioned culture. And that's been something you and I, Chad, lived through. It was the server vs the storage vs the network and the virtualization admin, and then the cloud admin. I talked to the US Air Force guy, and he was like, 'We actually have the people take off their uniforms, because rank would have a certain meaning inside there.' But you've got the Devs, you've got OPS, you've got still the infrastructure pieces on tub, what are you seeing from the customers you're talking to; what are some of the big challenges that are slowing people back from reaching this Utopia of fast, fast, fast, agile, inter-operable, wonderful times? >> How do I answer that one? That's a loaded question, brother. The biggest impediment is human nature. It's these damn humans, if we could just get all the humans out. >> Well everybody's mine, mine, mine. >> We'll go to low code, no code, eliminate all the humans, it'll be dreamy. >> I did one of those interviews today, too. Absolutely, you don't need all programmers, the business people can do it. >> The human tendency for control, and the need for control, I think it's probably deep seated in our, we're living in a world where we know intellectually that we don't have control over everything, but we hate that. Because we want to create control in our lives, that basically is the thing that sets up boundaries between people, and they get really hung up on their function. That's not new, the word's changed, like you said. Used to be server people vs storage people. Then it was virtualization teams vs the silo teams. And now it's the intersection of the DEV team and the DevOps team, the operations team. How do they intersect? The places where they're the most successful, is that they don't get hung up on that and the people blend the roles. Now the trick is, how do you do that in a big company? I wrote a blog, I'm not trying to advertise, virtualgeek.io I wrote a blog on this which was a synthesis of all the customer dialogues I've been having over the last few years. And the pattern I've seen that is most successful, is actually to recognize that there are stacks, and the stacks, I don't mean this particular technology choice, but the way that the whole stack driven by the business and the application and then the abstraction it sits on, and then you have to build your actual operations team underneath that. That creates a whole operational model which in itself is a stack, and just so it doesn't sound like I'm describing something that's nonsensical, a stack can be in big enterprises, there's a main frame based app, that's running on a main frame, that's being supported by a main frame operations team, and then right beside it there's another stack, which is all X86 workloads that are static. So they don't need an IAS they just need to run on a kernel mode VM abstraction. And then under that you've got the team that supports. Then you've got the workload that can be containerized, and don't need a full blown PaaS. And then you've got another one, which is a full blown application service model. Each one of those stacks ends up with different people, processes and tools, because they're mapped to the cultural operational model of that stack. And the thing that I'm trying to guide customers when I'm talking to them is, don't reject that; that's actually reality. Yes you should move as much as you can to the highest order abstraction you can. That's goodness and it pays dividends all the way down the stack. But don't go and say, that this workload, by definition has to go there. Or because you operate this way in this stack and this group operates this way, that by definition you're stupid and they're smart. The other rule is that- >> Chad, the answer to everything is server-less. >> By the way, I should have said that's another abstraction even to the right of the application service model. So the thing I've found, is a key kind of pattern of good, is that between the stacks, people and process are not allowed to transverse them, because the process is linked to how you operate. The only thing that goes between them, because in the end, for any customer, the stuff that touches all of those, is to become religious about one thing, which is that API's and data, and how those transit, those different stacks, that you have to be very clear on. Do you know what I mean? On the blog I drew a picture, but it was terrible. It was a terrible drawing. >> I've done whiteboards with you, Chad, I understand. Great, so. Sound's like you've got your hands full. Lots of us read the S1, so Pivotal's marching towards an IPO. You've only been there a very short time, you've know Pivotal since the beginning and all the pieces since Greenplum's part of the MC, Cloud Foundry part of VMware. Anything that you've learned since you've been inside Pivotal now that there's misconceptions? One of the things I always find is, we always learn about something the first time and then don't think it changes. >> It's funny actually, that's an insightful question. Having joined the team, it's weird because to many of them, I'm new, I'm a new Pivot. But to many of them they know that I've always been there. And I was reminding some of the originals, the crazy tortured path that we've taken to get to today. The original effort was hey, people are doing new things data's at the core of it. And that was the trigger for the Greenplum acquisition. And several of the people who are the senior leaders of Pivotal now came in through that. And then Paul Maritz was the CEO of VMware at the time, hey, I'm seeing people build new apps in new ways, by the way there's this crazy team inside VMware working on this thing called Cloud Foundry. And they were like a red headed stepchild. That's not PC, but like a black sheep? Or I don't know what metaphor you want to use, but basically they were working on something that had nothing to do with kernel mode virtualization at its core. >> Yeah it was a Cloud native peg in a VM square. >> And at the time, VMware isn't what they are now too. And then people forget this but I wrote a blog about it, so it's on the internet permanently. There was a Greenplum project, which was a great idea, that says people want to collaborate with data sets, and data scientists want to work together and it's really hard. Let's build a thing, which is like a social media portal, for Greenplum which was called Chorus. And the Chorus project was completely sideways. And they were like we don't know how we're going to get this thing on track on time, and they asked around the Valley, and people said hey, you should go talk to these guys, Pivotal Labs, up in San Francisco. What they do is they help people when they're stuck. They went, and I remember when Bill Cook and Scott Yara came back to Hoppington and said 'This was awesome, they've changed the way we think about how we build software, we think we should buy them.' And that got added, I remember when Paul Maritz said 'Spring is available.' it's like the most widely used modern JAVA framework, and that was also stuff in Spring Rif. All of these weird bits, in essence became the essence of Pivotal. You know what I've learned through that? Is these journeys are not in a straight line. Everyone's. >> Like our careers, Chad. >> Like our careers man. That's the first part, the second thing is, and this is going to be a challenge for Pivotal, honest, if we're very transparent as always, is Pivotal's brand is now so linked with Pivotal Cloud Foundry. And that's a good thing, like those customers raving about the business outcomes that they are getting. But inside Pivotal, the strategic change, the strategic pivot ha ha ha, to do a full embrace of Kubernetes versus the traditional opinionated versus plastic debates, I wouldn't say that we have 100% of the company fully embracing it yet, because companies are themselves, organic. But across the vast majority of the company it is something understood that it is an imperative for us. If we want to help the customers and the world build better software, we've got to do it for stuff that fits into PaaS, and stuff that doesn't. And so I've learned over the last few weeks about how many people share that passion that I have, and I think we can make something awesome with PKS. >> Alright, well with that Chad, we'll have to leave it there for now, looking forward to seeing you at more events. Congrats on the new role, I'm sure if people haven't already, Chad does have a new site for his blog, virtualgeek.io instead of the previous one. Chad, always a pleasure. Got the Cube here at Cloud Foundry Summit, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching the Cube. (upbeat tempo)

[lively music] >> Man: Live from Santa Clara, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCube, covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation and Pivotal. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost, John Troyer. Happy to welcome back to the program, actually a former colleague of mine, Cornelia Davis, Senior Director of Technology at Pivotal. Cornelia, it's great to see you. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> All right, so why don't you fill in our audience a little bit about your role at Pivotal, you've been involved since before the foundation in early days of everything happening. >> Yeah, and in fact I have been working with Cloud Foundry for longer than the Pivotal Company's existed. As you know, Stu, you and I used to work together at EMC in the corporate CTO office. >> Yeah, I remember a company named EMC. [Laughing] >> Yep. And I worked in the architecture group and we did architecture in emerging tech. And about five years ago, my boss, who you know, Tom McGuire, said, "You know, this platform as a service thing, I think is going to be pretty disruptive, and I want you to start looking at it. And so naturally we were EMC, VMware was incubating Cloud Foundry already, so I started playing with Cloud Foundry. So that was way back in the days of Cloud Foundry version 1.0. I'm one of those people who got to raise my hand and say, "Yes, I've been to every single Cloud Foundry Summit." [Stu Laughing] But fast forward then we had the Pivotal spin-off, and since the Pivotal spin-off, I joined the Cloud Foundry team proper, and I've been in a role working the product organization, working with James Waters, who I know you spoke to earlier today, and helping our customers kind of get their arms wrapped around what this...this isn't just the next application platform. How really, it's radically different, and how the applications, it enables a completely different style of application. And so really helping customers grok the differences about that. >> Yeah, Cornelia, I want you to help us dig into this a little bit, because when we look at any of these massive changes, a lot of times we say, you know, the technology is the easy part. It's really the change in mindset, the change in the structure, new skillsets. What are you seeing, what's different now than it was, say, three or five years ago, and what are those customer discussions that you're having? >> Yeah, and that's a great question, and I will say, and thanks for the opportunity to say this, is that the technology isn't always the easy part. [Stu laughs] So let me give you an example. So just earlier today I was on a call where somebody was talking about some user interviews that they had done with some programmers, and what they concluded at the end of that was that programmers really weren't comfortable with the "asynch" model for this particular API, and that they really wanted to just deal with the synchronous stuff. And the answer there is not that we say, "Oh, okay, we'll let you keep doing synchronous." The answer is that yes, there's a technology thing here that's hard, which is starting to think asynchronously and changing the way that we design our applications. So the technology's not always easy, but we have to go there, because in the cloud, where things are so extraordinarily distributed in a way, and the cloud is constantly changing in ways that it never did before, we have to adopt new technology models. So that's the first thing I'll say, is that we definitely, the technology parts are sometimes hard. That said, certainly over the course of the last four years, as I've worked with those customers, in the beginning, I spent a lot of time, as you know, I'm a technologist, so I spent a lot of time at the whiteboard, and sketching out architectures and talking about changes in the architecture of the platform or changes in the architecture of the application, but then I very quickly found myself talking to customers about the other things that are going to need to change around the edges. So if, for example, you want to start deploying software multiple times a day, you're going to have to change your processes, because you can't have the security office have to do a full audit of every change before it goes into production if it's going to happen three or four times a day. And if you do that, then does that imply organizational changes? So I spend a great deal of my time really talking about the whole DevOps and the people and process side of the equation as well. So last week, I was just - I'm part of the programming committee of the DevOps Enterprise Summit, and we just held that last week in London. And there we spent a lot of time talking about those elements as well. >> I spoke with somebody who was at that conference, and they said it was a little bit sobering, because there are people who have adopted a lot of these practices, and then there are people who are trying and then probably people who have not started yet. >> Cornelia: Yeah. >> As Coté calls them "the donkeys without the unicorn horns yet. >> Cornelia: Ah. >> But as you go out to the customer base, obviously part of what Pivotal is doing is really this huge Pivotal Apps push about showing people the culture. I mean, do you feel like it's a push or a pull, does the technology come first, and then the culture, does the CIO yell, or do the developers say, "We want this"? >> So we definitely get a little bit of both. I would say that I have had the great opportunity to work with a great number of these customers, so Allstate, for example, we've seen Allstate here at CF Summit year after year, and Opal spoke about Andy Zitney talking about this three or four years ago. Well, that was IT saying, "Hey," and that was more from the operations side saying, "Hey, we're going to build you a new platform," and then will they come? Now, they of course had to couple that together with, "Okay, we're not just going to build the platform, we have to put things in place to enable people to use it properly. So there's certainly- and that came a little bit more from Andy Zitney's vision. So it was a little bit more from the top, "Hey, we understand there's a better way, we're going to start making this available to you, and we'll teach you along the way." We absolutely see the opposite as well, though. Where we see the groundswell, which sometimes comes from a bunch of really smart people starting to play with the open source things. And saying, "Hey, there's got to be a better way," or the shadow IT. They're frustrated with the three-month cycles, and those things. So it isn't one answer, it's really both. It comes from both sides. >> All right. So Cornelia, you're good at understanding some of those next generation things. One of the terms that we've been talking about for the last couple of years is "cloud-native." Could you help us really kind of tease apart what that means in your customer base, and the way you approach and explain that? >> Yeah. So the term "cloud-native" is brilliant from the perspective of having a term for it that has really taken ahold. Because I would say that three years ago, I used to say to people, "Hey, cloud is not about where you're computing, it's about how you're computing." But in fact, that's not exactly accurate. And so, now that cloud-native is a term that's taken hold, I have modified my statement. And the statement that I like to make now is that, cloud, in fact, is where you compute. It could be a public cloud, it could be a private cloud, but it is more of a location. Cloud-native is the how. So I like to also characterize the cloud and cloud-native, really cloud-native applications, as two fundamental things. One is that cloud-native has reached levels of distribution that we have not seen before. We've been dealing with distributed systems and heck, in universities, there have been courses on distributed systems for 40 years. But even when I started my career 30 years ago, I started my career in aerospace doing embedded systems, and I remember working on a system where we had three processors. You know, that was as distributed as we got. And we actually mapped out on a whiteboard, okay, we're going to run this on this process and parallel with this on this process, and the point there is it was distributed, but we knew exactly what we had, and we could count on that being there. Now, it's reached a completely different, many many orders of magnitude more, in terms of the number of distributed components, as we go to microservices and those types of things. So that's one of the things that I characterize cloud and cloud-native, is highly distributed like we've never seen before. Couple that together with the other thing I just talked about with the embedded systems, that's very different from that, is constantly changing. Always changing. And whether that change is happening because of some catastrophe or that change is happening because we are doing an upgrade, a planned upgrade, it's constantly in flux. And so we have to do things differently for that. And so that, I think really, is what cloud-native is about, is the how, and like I said, highly distributed, constantly changing. >> All right. And what about the role of data, when we talk about that? Distributed architectures, storage is really tough in that kind of environment. >> Cornelia: Yep. >> And therefore, how does data play into it? >> Cornelia: Yeah, so cloud-native apps were really, as an industry starting, and here at CF Summit, people are really kind of grokking what that means. Highly distributed, small, loosely coupled components that we've put together, we'll talk about that collective in just a moment. But they're generally stateless and so on. So we understand cloud-native apps, but cloud-native involves data as well, as you said, now most of our customers that have, as you said, some of them are a little bit further along whether it's DevOps or it's cloud-native architectures, they're a little further along. And those that are quite far along, have a lot of microservices, and so you look at them, and if you look just at the microservices, you think, "Ah, beautiful. Loosely coupled, independent teams, and so on," and then you pull back the curtain, and you realize that those microservices are all tied to a shared database. There's this monolithic Oracle database or SQL server, something at the back end, that they're all tied to. And so in fact, when a team wants to make a rev on a microservice, they might still have to go through some of that planning and lockstep with lots of other teams, because, "Hey, I want to change something in the data." So the data, remember we just talked about highly distributed? Well, on the data side, it's not so highly distributed. Yes, we've got multi data centers, but we have, again, a predictable number of nodes. We know what we've got deployed. We have very rigid architectures and configurations and so on. So when we start to apply cloud-native to data, we look at the same goals we had with cloud-native applications, which is autonomy, so being able to have the different cloud-native components evolve independently, resilience, so that we have bulkheads and air gaps between them, all of those same goals, let's start to apply those to data. >> And you feel that that's not happening today yet. We're earlier in the process yet? >> It hasn't been happening. That's right. We're far far far earlier in the process. And so what we want to start to do is take that monolith that's sitting behind the curtain and we want to start breaking it apart. Now, the industry has definitely gotten to the point where they're starting to tackle this. And that was, I kind of had an epiphany about a year ago, I was working with a customer, talking to them about DevOps, talking about all these cloud-native patterns and practices, and the punch line was it was the data team of this organization. So they didn't understand the solutions, but they were understanding that they had pain points that were very reminiscent of the pain points that their colleagues in the application server teams had had, had been tackling for three or four years. So the types of technologies that we're starting to see emerge and the types of patterns we're starting to see emerge are things like unified logs, like applying Kafka to that problem of having a unified log and that be the source of record. And event-driven systems and those types of things. Every microservice gets its own database, which, yeah, we'll get some of that, but that's a kind of purist and not pragmatic way of looking at things. Caching plays a pretty big role in that, so caching in the past has been all about performance, but now when we start to look at patterns, how can we use caches to help us create those bulkheads and those air gaps so we get additional resilience in our microservices architecture? If we can put caches and there are companies like Netflix, like Twitter, who have done that, who have embedded caching deeply through their entire architecture. >> Well, do you think these technologies will come from the database or, well, let's call it the database projects and vendors themselves, or is that something, those patterns can get built into a platform, say, like Cloud Foundry? >> I think it's going to probably come more from the platform community, which is not to say that database vendors aren't thinking about that, but again, they are keeping the lights on with their existing product, so they have those quintessential business school constraints that are holding them back. >> A quick question on nomenclature. So a few years back as cloud-native was being coined, you also heard about 12-Factor apps, and that was one particular manifesto, and certainly the ops folks, I would call it at the time, said, "Well, wait a minute, that's great for your front end, but where are you storing your state?" >> Cornelia: Exactly. And so I love this conversation about >> Yep. cloud-native data. So that is what we're talking about here? >> That's exactly what we're talking about, is doing that. And so it allows us, it's interesting, because as soon as we take a model where we say, "Okay, every microservice gets its own microdatabase," then of course everybody in any large enterprise says, "Wait a minute, what about my data compliance, my data governance, how do I keep a customer that's stored in this database over here from diverging from the customer record that's stored in this other database?" I mean, we've spent decades talking about the 360 view of customers, because we've already been somewhat more fragmented than we wanted, and our knee-jerk reaction over the last several decades was, let's consolidate everything into one database. But with that comes slowness. It's the proverbial large, large ship that's hard to turn and hard to move. But what's different now is that we're starting to come up with some different patterns of doing that, what we call master data management in the past, we're applying completely different patterns now, where those individual microservice databases are really just seen as a materialized view of some source of record, and that source of record is just a time series of events, and you can always rebuild. You know, it's very interesting, because databases have had a log as a part of their architecture forever. For a very, very long time. And in fact, the log, arguably, is more important than any of the database tables that are stored on disk, because you can always recreate the database tables from the log. Now take that concept and distribute it. That's what cloud-native data is all about. To take what has been a single fabric, and now create a highly distributed, constantly changing fabric for data. And figuring out what those patterns are. >> Cornelia, I want to give you the final word. You've been to all the Cloud Foundry Summits. Either the customers or the event itself, what are some of the things that are kind of new and changing, that people that aren't at the show should know about? >> You know, I was walking down the hallway this afternoon, one thing I'll note that has changed, like I said, I was walking down the hallway with a colleague of mine, and he said, "I have 12 people from a single one of my customers here. 12 people." I spoke with somebody else who said, "Yep, another customer - not a vendor, but a customer - sent 30 people here." So we have- Cloud Foundry Summit in the beginning was a whole bunch of people who were the hobbyists, if you will. So I think we've reached that inflection point where we have the users, not just the hobbyists, but the true users that are going to leverage the platform. That's one thing that's changed. Some of the things- the other interesting thing I think that is really brilliant is the touch that the Cloud Foundry Foundation has. So I'll tell you, I submitted several papers here three years ago, when it was still the Pivotal Show. I could talk about whatever I wanted. I don't always get my papers accepted here now. And that is a good thing. That's a really good thing, so we have really democratized the community, so it truly is a community event. I think that's another thing that's happened, is kind of the democratization of Cloud Foundry, and I love that. >> Cornelia Davis, it's a pleasure to catch up with you, thank you so much for joining us. And John and I will be back with a couple of customers, actually, here at the Cloud Foundry Summit. So stay tuned and thanks for watching theCube. [lively music]

>> Announcer: Live from Santa Clara, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation and Pivotal. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, joined by my cohost John Troyer. Happy to welcome back to the program, friend of theCUBE, James Watters SVP of Product at Pivotal. James, great to see you, and thanks for helping to get theCUBE to Cloud Foundry Summit. >> Yeah, I was just saying, this is the first time theCUBE is at CF Summit, so we're official now. We're all grown up. We're out in the daylight and you know you made it when theCUBE shows up, so excited to have you here. >> Absolutely. So a lot of things going on. We had Chip on talking about some of the big announcements. >> James: Yeah. >> From Pivotal's standpoint, what's some of the important milestones in releases happening. >> Yeah, I think in the simplest terms, the big new thing came out of our collaboration with Google is called Kubo, which is Kubernetes on BOSH. And I think that was a big move that got a lot of applause in the keynote when it was announced yesterday. And I think it shows two things. One is that Cloud Foundry really is going to embrace multiple ways of deploying artifacts and managing things, and that we're really the cloud native platform and willing to embrace container abstractions, app abstractions, data abstractions pretty uniquely, which is, there hasn't been another platform out there that embraces those with specialized ways of doing them. And I'm really excited about the customer response to that approach. >> Yeah, James, help us unpack that a little bit. So we look at the term seems this year, everybody, it's multi-cloud, we're all talking back-- >> James: Yeah. >> I think back to the days when we talked about platform as a service. One of the pieces was, oh, well, I should be able to have my application and move lots of places. That's what I heard when I talked about Cloud Foundry. When Docker came out everybody was like, oh PAS's dead, Docker's going to do this. When Kubernetes came out, oh wait, this takes the core value of what platform as a service has done. And today you're saying Kubo, Cloud Foundry, and Kubernetes with some BOSH, pulling it all together. Walk us through, 'cause it's nuanced. And there's pieces of that. So help us understand. >> Yeah, I like to say that even though sometimes you have open source communities have their own sense of identity, there's really not a god abstraction in cloud programming. Like there's not one abstraction that does it all. The simplest way you can see that is that people are interested in function as a service today. They're also interested in container as a service. Well, those two are not, they're not compatible. Right, like you don't deploy your whole Docker image to Amazon Lambda, but people are interested in both of those. And then, at the same time, there's this hyper growth of Spring Boot, which is, I think, the most efficient way of doing Java programming in the cloud, which is really at the core of our app abstraction. And so we see people, there's hyper growth, and function as a service, app as a service, especially with Spring Boot, and then also container. And I think the approach that we've had is beause there's not one god abstraction, that our platform needs to embrace all of those. And that actually, it's pretty intuitive, once you start using them, and you get beyond the slides and the buzz words. When to use one versus the other. And I think that's what users have been really excited about, is that Pivotal and Cloud Foundry communities embraced kind of that breadth, in terms of, different approaches to cloud native. Does that make sense to you, John? >> Yeah it's starting to, right? A lot of people like to do all or nothing about everything, right? >> James: Yeah. >> It's all going to be, we're going to be serverless by next year. And that doesn't make any sense at all. >> James: That's right. >> And so you have multiple programming models, like you said, multiple different kinds of abstractions, so when would somebody want to use, say containers, as a service, or container orchestration, versus some of the other application models. >> Yeah, it's a really, really great question. And I just had a really productive customer meeting this morning, where we went through that. They had some no-JS developers, that they said, look, these developers just want to get their code to production. They don't want to think about systems, they don't want to think about operating systems, they don't want to think about clusters. They're just like, here's my app, run it for me. And that's the core trick that Cloud Foundry's done the best of any platform in the world, which is CF Push, and so, for a no-JS developer, here's my app, run it for me, load balance it, health management, log aggregate it, give me quotas on my memory usage, everything. That's a good example of that. Then, they also had a team that was deploying Elasticsearch and some packaged applications. And they needed the level of control that Kubernetes in terms of pods, co-location, full control of a system image, the ability to do networking in certain ways, the ability to control storage. And you don't just take Elasticsearch and say here's my Elasticsearch tarball, run it for me. You actually start to set up a system, and that's where Kubernetes container as a service is perfect. Then the other question is how do you stitch those together, and you've seen the Kubernetes community adopt the Service broker API, the open Service Broker API out of Cloud Foundry, as a common way of saying, oh, I have an Elasticsearch over here, but I want to bind it to an application. Well, they use the CF services API. I think it's early days, but there's actually a coherent fabric forming across these different approaches, and it's also immediately intuitive. Like we didn't know, when we first conceived of adding Kubo to the mix, we didn't know what the educational level of education we have to provide, but it's been intuitive to every client I've talked so far, so that's fun for me to watch you say a few words like, oh, we get it. Yeah, we use that for this and this for this. >> All right, James, I have to up-level it a little bit, there. >> James: Little deep? >> You travel way more than I do. We kind of watch on social media. Prove me wrong, but i can't imagine when you're talking in the C-suite of a Fortune 100, pick your financial, or insurance company, that they are immersed in the languages and platform discussions that the hoodie crowd is. So where are you having those discussions? >> James: Yeah. >> One of the things, I come into the show and say Pivotal and Cloud Foundry are helping customers with that whole digital transformation. >> James: We are. >> And making that reality. So help us with that disconnect of, I'm down in the weeds trying to build this very complex stack, and the C-suite says, I want to be faster. >> I'll tell you what the C-suite has to solve. They've got to solve two things. One is they've got to deliver faster and more efficiently than ever before. That's their language, and our core app abstraction has been killer for digital transformation. Deliver apps faster, find your value line, and approach problems that way. They get that. That's why we've been succeeding economically, that's been a bit hit. But they also have another problem is, they want to retain talent, and when they're trying to retain talent some of those times, those folks are saying, well, we want little bit more control. We want to be able to use a container if we want, or think about something like Spring Cloud Data Flow to do high-end pipelines. And so they do care about having a partner in Pivotal and in Cloud Foundry, they can embrace those new trends. Because they've got to be able to not be completely top down in how they're enabling their organizations, while also encouraging efficiency. And so that's where the message of multiple abstractions really hits home for them, because they don't always want to referee some of the emerging trends and tech, and telling their team what they have to use. So by providing function, app, container, and data service, we can be the one partner that doesn't force that a priori in the discussion. Does that make sense? >> Is there friction ever, when saying, okay here, we've got this platform that actually is rather opinionated versus, hey, go choose everything open source and do whatever you want. I think that there's political boundaries between different parts of organization, this is a lot of what DevOps, I think, as a movement has been so important. Which is saying actually, you need to blur the political boundaries in the organization to get to faster end-to-end throughput and collaboration. So I think that's definitely a reality. At the same time, the ability that we've had to embrace these different approaches allows the level of empowerment that I think is appropriate. Like I think what we've been trying to do is not necessarily cater to a free-for-all, we've been saying, what are the right tools in the tool chest that people need to get their job done. So I think that's been very warmly received. So I guess I'd say that hasn't been a big problem for us. >> I want to ask you about the ecosystem. I think back when the ecosystem started, IBM, HPE, Cisco were big players. I come in this week, and it's Google Cloud, Microsoft Cloud, and Pivotal still is, last time I checked it was what, 70% of the code base created by Pivotal. >> James: I think it's 60 or 55 now. >> The change in the ecosystem what that means, and what that means to kind of open source, open core. >> Yeah, so I think in addition to the Kubo work that we've done, the other big news this week is that Microsoft joined the Cloud Foundry Foundation. So, essentially the largest software company in the world-- >> Wait, wait, Microsoft loves open source, I hear. Did you hear that one? >> They do. >> I know, it's still shocking for a lot of us that have known Microsoft for a long time, don't you think? And I'm not trying to be facetious, they totally are involved, I've talked to lots of Microsoft people. Kudos to them, they're doing a really good job. Even if I look at the big cloud guys and throw in VMware in there, Microsoft is one of the leaders in participating and embracing open source. >> They are and I think Corey Sanders, who got on stage, announced this, he leads the Azure virtual machine service, and a lot of the other Azure services for them, I think that their strategy is they want to run every workload. Like if you talk to Corey about it, he's like, you got workload, we want to be your partner. And I think that's been the change at Microsoft, is once you go into cloud, it's sort of like Pivotal embracing multiple program abstractions, right, once you have a platform you want as much critical mass on it as you can. And I think that's really helped Microsoft embrace the open source community in a very pragmatic way. Because they are a business, a company, right? And I think open source is required to do business in software these days, right, like in a way that it wasn't 10 years ago. As you look at your customer set and multi-cloud, right? From the very beginning multi-cloud was baked into the concept of Cloud Foundry. Like you said, just push, right? >> James: Yeah. >> So what do you see as common patterns? We've talked to folks already who, on-prem. Obviously, you all are running your CF service in partnership, your main one, your partnership with Google, You work with Amazon, what do you see in customer base, right? >> Yeah, so, let me just share a little bit from a good customer. This is a prospect conversation more, like someone who's starting the journey. They were currently running on-prem, on an OpenStack environment, which had some cost of maintenance for them. They were considering also using their vServer environment, to maybe not have to do as much customization of OpenStack. But there were certain geographies that they wanted to get into. They didn't want to build data centers. And what they were confronting was, they'd have to go learn networking and app management on a couple different clouds they wanted to use. And what they liked about our CF Fabric, across that, was that they said, oh, this is one operating model for any of those clouds. And that's the pattern that we see is that companies want to have one cloud operating model while there's five major cloud players today. So like how do those two forces in the market combine? And I think that's where multi-cloud becomes powerful. It's not necessarily multi-cloud for it's own sake, but it is the idea that you can engage and use multiple resources from these different data center providers without having to completely change your whole organization around it. Because taking on, how you run vServer versus OpenStack is different, as you know, right? >> Right, right, and talking about change, right? You and I were together at VMware when you launched this thing. >> James: Yeah. >> And there was a profound kind of conceptual chasm to leap for the VMware operators to figure out what was going on here. >> James: Yeah. >> So in this new world of services operation in multi-cloud, how are you seeing people, how's the adoption going, you just launched, or the foundation's launched its new certification stuff, can you talk a little bit about the new skill set needed, or how you're seeing people, the people formerly known as sys admins are now actually doing cloud operations. >> Well, I'm not sure if you saw Pat Gelsinger's announcement at Dell World, Dell EMC World, about developer-ready infrastructure. And I think this is a critical evolution that our partnership with VMware is more important than ever. Which is they're now saying all of these people that have been doing traditional system administration, you need to now offer developer-ready infrastructure. And this is an infrastructure that all the networking and network micro segmentation rules need to be there, all of the great things that the VMware admins have provided before needs to be there, but it needs to be turnkey for a developer. That developer shouldn't just get what we had and 2009, when you and I were working there together, which is like, here's a virtual machine, go build the rest of the environment. It should look more like, here's my application, run it for me. Here's my container, run it for me. And so what we're seeing is a lot of people upping their game now. To say, oh, the new thing is providing these services for developers 'cause that ties into digital transformation, ties into what the business is doing, ties into productivity. So I'm seeing a Renaissance of sys admins having a whole new set of tools. So that makes me excited. And one of the cool things we're seeing, I'd love to get your opinion on this is, this cool operating ratio of, we've had our clients present. Their administers of Cloud Foundry instances are able to run tens of thousands of apps in containers with two to four to five people. And so now they've got this super power, which is like, hey bring as many of the applications as the business needs to me. I can go run 10,000 app containers with a small team of people with a good lifestyle. To me, that's actually kind of incredible to see that leverage. >> Yeah, I think it's a huge shift, right? 'Cause you aren't setting up the VLANs and the micro segmentation and the rest of the stuff. >> Yeah, it's not all by hand, and so now the idea with our NSX partnership, is I'm really excited about, fun to talk to you about it. We used to work in Building E and have lunch out there, is that when you provision a CF app, we're working with the NSX team that all the segmentation will align with the app permissions. And this is a big deal, because it used to be that the network team and the app team didn't really have a good conduit of communication. So now it's like, okay I'm going to bind my app to this data service. I want NSX to make sure that permission is followed. To me, that's going to be a revolution of getting the app, and the DevOps teams and the networking teams to work together, clearly. So I'm pumped about that. >> Running low on time. A couple of quick questions about Pivotal. Number one is, now that you're doing Kubo, could we expect to see Pivotal join the CNCF? So EMC is is joining the CNCF. We have friendly relations with the CNCF, I don't think that's at all out of the cards. I just know current, I don't have any news on that today. But we've been very friendly with them, and we started working with Google on that, so no immediate plans there, but we'd be open to that, I believe. >> Okay, and secondly, my understanding, the last announcement on revenue, you can't speak to the IPO or anything, James, above your pay grade, but $275 million in billing on PCF, did I get that right? What do you see is kind of the mix of how you're revenued, are you a software company, a services company? The big data versus the cloud piece. How do we look at Pivotal going forward? >> Yeah, what'd I say is I primarily oversee the Cloud Foundry portion of what we do. And services are an incredibly important part of our mix, Pivotal labs. When you think about this developer-ready infrastructure tend, like a lot of the way you organize your developers can change too. So we talked about how the sys admins jobs change. They gets this platform scale, well the developer's job has changed now, too. They have to learn how to do CICD, they've got to learn how to potentially turn around agile requirements from the business on a weekly basis versus every six months. So Pivotal labs has certainly been critical to that mix for us. But PCF in and of itself, has been a very successful software business. And I think, I believe can grow into the billions of dollars a year in software, and that's what kind of keeps me excited about every day. >> All right, James, I want to give you the final word. You speak to so many customers. >> James: A few. >> The whole digital transformation thing, what are you seeing? How do we help customers along that moving faster. >> That's a, it's a big topic. And the thing that's really interesting about what PCF does is, that it helps people change their organizations, not just their technology. And this has certainly happened in the vServer environment, right? Like it would change your organization, but we're even going higher, which is like, how are your developers organized? How operating teams organize. How you think about security. How you think about patching. Like the reason why I agree that it's transformative, is that it's not just a change of technology, it's these new technologies allow you to rebuild your organization end-to-end, of how it delivers business results. And that makes it both a humbling and an exciting time to be in the industry, because I personally, don't have all the answers every time. People ask about organizations and what to do there. Those are complex issues, but I think we've tried to partner with them to go on that journey together. >> Unfortunately, James, we're going to have to leave it there. We will definitely catch up with you at many more events later this year. And we'll be back with more coverage here from the Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of theCUBE insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we're going deep into AWS. In a couple of weeks, theCUBE is going to be at the eighth AWS Reinvent, which will be our seventh year of having theCUBE at that show. You know, reinvent has really become the Super Bowl for enterprise tech innovation. And, ahead of the event, what I want to do is talk about the revolution of cloud, and the impact that it's having on the industry. And of course, I want to dig in to some of the data using the ETR data set. Before I do that, let me first say that the cloud 2.0, which is a term that we've been using, is becoming a reality. This is something that John Furrier and I talk about a lot here at theCUBE and at SiliconANGLE. The cloud is not about an incremental transition, it's really about transformation. We're talking here about the end to end modernization of the enterprise. The game is changing, and the engine of innovation is really being driven by new architectures, and these architectures have built around a few items. Data, machine intelligence, and of course cloud, for scale. We feel like what we are witnessing is the build out of this massively scalable distributed system. And this system is transforming businesses, and really enabling entire new companies and business models to emerge. The cloud is the under pitting of this digital revolution, and virtually every industry is going to be disrupted, no industry is safe. All right, let's get right to it. So, the key questions that I want to explore in this session, let's start with the spending patterns. We're going to look at the ETR survey data, and what services are attracting the most action inside cloud, and which vendors are winning? I then want to look at the market share data from a couple of angles. I'll look at ETR data, I'll talk about some other market data. Then we're going to drill into some of the services that are critical to innovation, and I specifically want to look at databases in particular analytic data stores. And then I want to look at the data and analytic services at AI, machine intelligence, and then I want to look at the data around containers and functions, like Lambda, which are very hot right now. Then, we're going to share some data on how the cloud is impacting the so called, "old guard." This is a pejorative term that Andy Jassy coined to refer to the legacy enterprise tech providers. Then I want to make some comments about the AWS ecosystem, it's getting a lot of chatter lately. And then I want to share some thoughts on what you can expect this year at Reinvent, and then I'll wrap. So the first data point that I want to show you here really draws on ETR's latest survey of 1,336 respondents. So what this chart does is it cuts the data, and it's showing just the cloud sector ranked by net score. Now remember, net score is a measure of spending momentum. Okay? So you can see where the action is. So at the top, you see Azure Functions and AWS Lambda popping right up. Look at their net scores, they've got a net score of 74% and 71% respectively. You can see Azure overall, this is the overall Azure business that's right up there as well, and of course AWS overall, so people responded AWS is right there. Very, very high, but it's dropped a little bit below Azure. We'll talk about that more in a moment. Then you can see VMware Cloud on AWS, it's got strong momentum, which is a real positive. You've got Google Cloud Functions, again, Functions very hot right now. Open Shift from Red Hat, GCP is up there, VMware Cloud. Then you've got Alibaba. Alibaba's only got 18 mentions, whereas the others have much higher shared in, so I'm not going to really put too much weight on that. And you can see the other folks as well on that chart. But also you can you can point out the functions. The Azure functions, and services like Lander, Lambda, are gaining really a lot of momentum in the marketplace, and I think point to a new mode of compute. What I want to do now is I want to isolate in this chart, the big 3 in cloud, and put them into context with a legacy player, you know, namely IBM. I'm not trying to pick on the legacy guys, but I think it's good for context. So as you can see here, Azure and AWS, they've been neck and neck battling it out in the last 10 surveys or so. And you can see even Google, somewhat behind, but it's still got pretty strong spending momentum. Now, these figures overall are trending down relative to the expectations earlier in the year. This is something that we've talked about, that spending is reverting back to pre '18 levels, not falling off a cliff, still solid in the grand scheme of things. So you can see, you know, net scores here are well above 50% for AWS and Azure. Now take a look at IBM. The ETR data shows them in the red zone, with a net score of 16%. That is not a surprise, that they're behind the Big 3. And I've said many many times, here's the thing, IBM and Oracle, I'm not showing Oracle here, they're at least in the cloud game. Think about it, HP had the public cloud, they had to tap out. Cisco, they don't have a public cloud. Dell EMC, even VMware, they don't have a public cloud. So at least IBM and Oracle have a cloud play, where they can take their SaaS business and run it, and get vertically integrated and some operating leverage. Okay, I'm going to switch gears a little bit and talk about market share. And we want to focus here on the battle between Azure and AWS. We all know Microsoft is growing faster, but AWS is much larger. And this is something that AWS CEO Andy Jassy, he takes a lot of time to explain to the analyst, and to the crowd at Reinvent. Let's take a look at what Jassy said last year at Reinvent on this topic, and then we'll come back. >> So if you look at the provider who most people think is the second place provider in this space, in their last financials they grew 76% year over year. And you can look at that and say, "Oh, 76% is more than 46%." But if you look at it in reality, that 76% represents about a billion dollars of growth year over year. If you look at the 46% growth of AWS on that much larger base, that represents $2.1 billion of growth year over year. So more than double that. So AWS not only has a significant market segment leadership position in share, but also on an absolute revenue basis is growing meaningfully faster than anybody else. >> Okay so, think about what Jassy said. He was using Q3 data and he said that AWS had a $27 billion run rate business. And if you look at those charts that I showed, or he showed, it looked like the yellow bar, which was Microsoft, even though they didn't say, you know, "the company that shall not be named." It was about 1/3 the size of AWS, so where would that put Microsoft? Somewhere around 9 billion last year, on kind of an apples to apples run rate basis, using those extrapolated market data that Jassy showed. By the way, ironically, this is about what AWS did last quarter which you can see here on this chart that I'm showing you. You might remember, I showed you this chart in a previous episode of Breaking Analysis. And what it shows is AWS' quarterly revenue on the blue bars, and the growth rate on the right hand axis, that's the red line. And you can see Jassy talked about 46% growth.. And you can see that in Q3 last year, and then look how its moderated. It's 35% in Q3 in 2019, the last quarter that they announced. So Jassy is right. AWS is growing slower than Microsoft last year, which was growing in the mid-70's. But Microsoft was 59% last quarter so that trend is continued. If, you know, that's if you believe Microsoft numbers, which are really not clean. It's hard to say sometimes with all the SaaS in there, and Office 365, LinkedIn, I don't know what else is in there but we try to parse that out. Regardless, Jassy's point that size matters is still correct. But, Microsoft is closing the gap. I talked to the Wikibon team recently, and they think that AWS is going to come in at $35 billion dollars in revenue this year. And they have Microsoft's IS business at around $15 billion. So that's 43% of AWS's business versus 33% at this time last year. So you can see that Microsoft is closing that gap. AWS is still adding $8 billion a year in growth, but Microsoft is definitely catching up. So what is the spending data show? Let's take a look here at the ETR data, and see what they say about market share. Now, remember, in the ETR parlance market share is a measure of how pervasive a vendor is within the data set. And as you can see here, it maps pretty well to the market estimates that I was just talking about. Although it actually appears that in these lines that AWS is widening that lead. But you can see in the net scores, by the way, this is net scores across all sectors, not just cloud computing, so it pulls in the other segments. But none the less, you can see Azure has a somewhat higher net score which indicates stronger spending intentions. So that pretty much fits what we see in the market for the most part. Now it's not all rosy for Microsoft. You know, they are super strong in the ETR data set across the board, but specifically in cloud. So that's important, I don't want to lose sight of that, but I want to share something that Gartner said recently, and it's a 2019 magic quadrant on cloud computing. Microsoft Azure's reliability issues continue to be a challenge for customers, largely as a result of Azure's growing pains. Since September of 2018, Azure has had multiple service-impacting incidents, including significant outages involving Azure active directory. The nature of many of these outages is such that customers had no controls in order to mitigate the downtime. So, caution is what Gartner said. So despite the great numbers and the fact that Azure is gaining, it's having growing pains. For years I've talked about the economies of scale for AWS due to its automation. I talked about the companies marginal economics at volume, and you can see it in the firm's operating margins. The question to ask, is Microsoft running into dis-economies at scale, due to it's large install base, and does it have technical debt? Because it's jamming large software estate into Azure, and having to preserve the past while trying to innovate for the future. I don't know, and it's hard to tell because Microsoft is so big and so profitable, but it's something that CIO's definitely should keep an eye on. Now, I want to look at some key sectors here and evaluate how AWS is doing in some of the areas where we see really innovation. And I want to start in the all important data base area. Now I'm going to focus here on analytic databases, and data warehouses, and I think there's some interesting trends going on here. So this is a cut of the ETR data warehouse segment. Now I've talked about Snowflake in the previous episodes of Breaking Analysis, and you can see why. Snowflake has a net score of 71%. They're one of the highest and most interesting newer companies in this space and in the ETR data set. You can see AWS doing very well, and I want to make some comments on both Snowflake and AWS Redshift. But before I do that, look at Oracle and Teradata on this chart. What you see here is the classic innovator's dilemma. It's at play where AWS and Snowflake, you can see them, they're solidly in the green, and you got the two legacy players affirmly in the red. So I include them as reference points. But I want to come back to Redshift and Snowflake, because I feel like there's something new going on in cloud. Where cloud 1.0 was all about IS and compute and storage and throw in some data base, there's this new trend emerging that's really driving new workloads. And this data that now sits in the cloud, it's maybe stored in S3, and customers are using data stores like Redshift and Snowflake to get more insights out of that data. They're bringing tools like data bricks into the equation, and really driving a whole new set of work loads that are not just about provisioning infrastructure, but really extracting insights much more quickly from the data and applying it to your business. And for AWS, it's driving tons of compute sales and customers are getting more value out of their data. Now, here's the interesting thing. Redshift and Snowflake are both best in class modern data warehouses, they seem to be coexisting, they're both thriving, you know, why is that? They're both MPP columnar stores, so they've got many similar attributes, but I think what it comes down to really is what I call horses for courses. I don't have time to dig into it today, but when you peel back the onion, what you find is different approaches to things like architecture, security, scaling, different philosophies, pricing, different feature sets. So it really comes down to the best strategic fit, and for now it looks like to me, there's room for both platforms. They're both doing very well from a spending momentum perspective. We'll see how that plays out over time. Let's now take a look at the analytic sector. Now here, we're talking about things like Amazon's quarry services, elastic map reduce, search kinesis, quick site glue, streaming, those kinds of tooling. You can see in this chart that AWS is very strong and it leads Microsoft by a small margin in the ETR data set. Now for comparison, and again, I'm not trying to pick on the legacy players, but I think it's important to provide context, and when it comes to spending momentum, the data doesn't lie. You can see here, IBM they've had a sizeable and very impressive set of capabilities in the analytic space, but you can see where the buyers are placing their bets. Now, what I'm showing you now in this next chart is a similar view, but this time I'm showing ETR market share for both AI and the machine learning segment. So for context I've added IBM Watson. Remember, market share for ETR is a measure of pervasiveness, not only to AWS and Microsoft, though they're battling it out for the top spot, but they got stronger spending momentum as you can see by the net scores. Look at Watson, I mean, it's respectable in the ETR data, but it just doesn't have the scale of the top two players. Okay, finally, I want to look at the container space. It's hot and I want to focus on Lambda from AWS. So what we're showing here is the net scores for Lambda, and Amazon's elastic container service. And you can see Lambda, very very strong. ECS is tapering a little bit, it's showing less momentum overtime, but still well over 50% net score. But look at Pivotal Cloud Foundry, they've showed a steady down term over time. This underscores the work that VMware and Pat Gelsinger have to do with one of their newest acquisitions. As in aside, this is an opportunity for VMware, which in my opinion, I've said they really need to get their developer act together, really to drive new innovation. And by the way, Pivotal just had some layoffs, but my understanding that it was not in engineering but rather folks that VMware saw as redundant, rolls that they already had in place. The bottom line is, Pivotal has been steadily losing momentum in the ETR surveys. But look, a 27 net score is not a disaster by any means. I said on my last Breaking Analysis, that if I were Michael Dell, I'd dedicate a thousand engineers to open sources, using Pivotal to really appeal to developers, and make his hardware run better on the open source tooling and apps that these thousand build. And make his infrastructure programmable. This is how the edge is going to be won. It's not going to be by throwing boxes over the top of the fence, but really a bottoms up by devs. I digress. The last data point that I want to share here is really designed to address the question, how is the cloud impacting what Jassy calls the "old guard?" So this view shows market share, which again is defined by ETR, remember they do the math to measure the pervasiveness of a vendor in their data set. And they call that market share. And I've cut that data by just the cloud spenders. So those buyers spending heavily, and I've isolated on AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud. And how their spending on traditional vendors has changed overtime. And I'm picking out Cisco, HPE, Dell EMC, and Oracle. And the story you can see is clear. They came out of the downturn in 2010, and the big guys who were holding their breath, and they came up for air and they saw lots of pet up demands, so they did pretty well. But the cloud has continued to slowly eat away at their share, and their spending momentum as seen by the net scores in this table, has been affected. But look at Cisco. They actually have quite a strong net score, its 37%. So to me, by the way, this makes sense. And I think Cisco is in a good position to connect clouds and secure data moving across clouds. But the cloud, it's long steady march continues. And we are entering a new era that I think is only going to see greater share gains for the cloud in my view. By the way, I don't want to just, back to my rant about the edge in programmable infrastructure, and how developers are going to win the edge. Cisco with Devnet is actually in a pretty good position here, and done a good job. And I think they're one of the few, if not the only legacy player that is going to figure this out. Now before I close, I want to make a few comments on the ecosystem, and give a glimpse as to what to expect at Reinvent in 2019. All right first the ecosystem. There's a lot of sort of chatter, and griping, and concerns around AWS cannibalizing the ecosystem partners. And I think frankly, that concern has merit. You know when AWS has this insane customer focus, you can pretty much take that to the bank. If a customer wants something and expresses that to AWS, and they see a space to fill where it can leverage that flywheel that they always talk about at ad services, AWS is not going to sub optimize it's portfolio to protect it's partner. It's going to go hard after it. So as a partner of AWS, it's up to you to keep innovating and moving fast. And that's hard, because AWS is probably moving faster than you are. But you know, you can still specialize as a partner, and thrive as a best debride player. I mean, look at the Snowflake example. There's plenty of opportunities out there in security, backup, governess, machine intelligence, work flow, edge, and of course, there's the infamous multi cloud opportunity. And I saw infamous because AWS doesn't use that term, you're not going to see it on the floor of Reinvent this year because it's frankly not allowed. AWS is very controlling over the messaging that it puts out to it's customers, and that includes the rules of the ecosystem if you want to go to their show. But you'll hear plenty of side conversations about multi cloud, and we're certainly going to be talking about it on theCUBE. Is multi cloud a symptom of multi vendor? You know what I think on this topic. I think it's more than that than it is a strategy. But CIO's are now being asked to clean up the multi cloud mess, so it does have merit. But it creates complexity, and that means opportunity for partners. So multi cloud is white space for the ecosystem, as is hybrid, and on prim connectivity, so partners are hedging their bet, they're supporting multiple clouds, and they're partnering with Azure and Google, and that makes sense to do so. But here's the thing. Cloud 2.0 is getting more complex. AI, new workloads, edge, new use cases, machine learning, more API's, more services, more complicated pricing. These are confusing matters for customers, and partners can help simplify this. As well, thinking about competition with Microsoft, Microsoft is kind of an easy choice. If you're already a Microsoft software customer, (murmurs) So partners need AWS, and AWS need partners to help them deliver solutions to go to market, and keep it simple. John Furrier says this a lot, that winning in the enterprise requires salesmanship, and AWS partners, they're a powerful channel, so AWS has to lean on this channel to really create solutions for customers and simplify. Okay, let's talk about what to expect at Reinvent 2019, and I want to start with storage. Jeff Bar put out a blog post announcing a series of new storage offers around block store, new gateways, S3 replication, a new Windows file server capabilities, and stronger emphasis on file storage. Now, most of the world's data is stored on file, and AWS is expanding it's portfolio. It started with S3 object, back in 2006, and then EBS, block store, and now a big emphasis on file services. So I expect to hear a lot about that, and as well, we're going to hear about outpost. What progress has Amazon made with outpost? What's the status? What's the vision for outpost? How does it fit in at the edge? You know as I just said in my rant earlier, the edge is all about developers, and I like AWS' edge approach. I think AWS has the right perspective. It's very devs centric. It's bottoms up from devs, not over the top like many of the box sellers. Now at Reinvent, you're probably going to hear more about unplugging Oracle databases, certainly security is going to be a big focus, as will AI and machine learning. I also expect a lot on transformation of industries. As Microsoft continues to grow in IS, expect AWS to somehow try to change the game again. And I'm not sure AWS can win the battle head on with CIO's. Rather, I think AWS is really going to focus on this duel disruption agenda, both within the horizontal technology stack but also within industries. In other words, expect AWS to increasingly focus on enabling industry transformation in different segments, like media, health care, financial services, manufacturing, government, automobiles, telco, virtually every vertical. This dual disruption agenda, both in the tech stack and within industries, its in AWS's DNA because it's in Amazon's DNA. It's driven by Jeff Bezos at the top. Now in closing, I want to stress again, the cloud 2.0 is here, and it's getting more complex. The so called "old guard" is hanging on to it's install basis, but in many ways, it's working hard to get simpler. Now are these two domains going to collide together and create an equilibrium in the cloud native wannabes and the cloud native guys? Probably not functionally, but there are a lot of opportunities for the big whales to capitalize on this industry consolidation, and compete by simplifying their experience enough to keep customers hanging around. You know, don't forget, the enterprise business for years has relied on high touch specials, and unique requirements, and that's the wheelhouse for the legacy players, it's not AWS'. And maybe this approach is going to continue to pick away at those opportunities with repeatable and automatible solutions. So this should be really interesting to watch. Stop by theCUBE, come see us at Reinvent, we got two sets there. This is Dave Vellante, signing out from this episode of CUBE insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California. It's theCUBE. covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego, everybody. You're watching Cisco Live 2019. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day three of our wall-to-wall coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante. Stu Miniman is here. Our third host, Lisa Martin is also in the house. Dave Malik is here. He's a fellow and Chief Architect at Cisco. David, good to see you. >> Oh, glad to be here. >> Thanks for coming on. First of all, congratulations on being a fellow. What does that mean, a Cisco Fellow? What do you got to go through to achieve that status? >> It's pretty arduous task. It's one of the most highest technical designations in Cisco, but we work across multiple architectures in technologies, as well as our partners, as well, to drive corporate-wide strategy. >> So you've been talking to customers here, you've been presenting. I think you said you gave three presentations here? Multi-cloud, blockchain, and some stuff on machine intelligence, ML. >> Yes. >> Let's hit those. Kind of summarize the overall themes, and then we'll maybe get into each, and then we got a zillion questions for you. >> Sure, excellent. So multi-cloud, I think one of the customers, we're clearly hearing from them is around, how do we get a universal policy model and connectivity model, and how do you orchestrate workloads seamlessly? And those are some of the challenges that we trying to address at this conference. On blockchain, a lot of buzz out there. We're not talking about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency, it's really about leveraging blockchain from a networking perspective, or an identity and encryption, and providing a uniform ledger that everything is pervasive across infrastructure. And then ML, I think it's the heart of every conversation. How do we take pervasive analytics and bring it into the network so we can drive actionable insights into automation? >> So let's start with the third one. When you talk about ML, was your talk on machine learning? Did it spill into artificial intelligence? What's the difference to you from a technology perspective? >> Machine learning is really getting a lot of the data and looking at repetitive patterns in a very common fashion, and doing a massive correlation across multiple domains. So you may have some things happening in the branch, the data set, or a WAN in cloud, but the whole idea is how do you put them together to drive insight? And through artificial intelligence and algorithms, we can try to take those insights and automate them and push them back into the infrastructure or to the application layer. So now you're driving intelligence for not just consumers or devices, but also humans as well to drive insight. >> All right. So Dave, I wonder if you'd help connect with us what you were talking about there, and we'll get to the multicloud piece because I was at an Amazon show last week from Amazon, talking about how when they look at all the technologies that they use to get packages, their fulfillment centers, everything that they do as a business, ML and AI, they said, is underneath that, and AWS is what's driving that technology from that standpoint. Now, multicloud, AWS is a partner of yours. >> Yes. >> Can you give us how you work in multicloud and does ML and IA, is that a Cisco specific? Are you working with some of the standards out there to connect all those pieces? Help us look at some of the big picture of those items. >> So we believe we're agnostic, whether you connect to Amazon, Azure, Google, et cetera, we believe in a uniform policy model and connectivity model, which is very, very arduous today. So you shouldn't have to have a specific policy model, connectivity model, security model for that matter, for each provider. So we're normalizing that plane completely, which is awesome. Then, at a workload level, regardless of whether your workload is spun up or spun down, it should have the same security posture and visibility. We have certain customers that are running as single applications across multiple clouds, so your data is going to be obviously on-prem, you may be running analytics in TenserFlow, compute in EC2, and connecting to O365, that's one app. And where we're seeing the models go is are you leveraging technology such as this? Do you offer service mesh? How do we tie a lot of these micro-services together and then be able to layer workload orchestration on top? So regardless of where your workload sits, and one key point that we keep hearing from our customers is their ungovernance. How we provide cloud-based governance regardless of where their workload is, and that's something we're doing in a very large fashion with customers that have a multicloud strategy. >> So Stu, I think there's still some confusion around multicloud generally, and maybe Cisco's strategy. I wonder if we could maybe clear it up a little bit. >> Dave, it's that big elephant in the room, and I always feel like everybody describes multicloud from a different angle. >> So let's dig into this a little bit, and let's hear from Cisco's perspective. So you got, to my count, five companies really going after this space. You got Cisco, VMware, IBM Red Hat, Microsoft, and Google with Anthos. Probably all those guys are partners of yours. >> Yes. >> Okay, but you guys want to provide the bromide or the single pane of glass, okay. I'm hearing open and agnostic. That's a differentiator. Security, you're in a good position to make an argument that you're in a good position to make things secure. You got the network and so forth. High-performance network, and cost-effective. Everybody's going to make that argument relative to having multiple stovepipes, but that's part of your story as well. So the question. Why Cisco? What's the key differentiator and what gives you confidence that you can really help win in this marketplace? >> So our core competencies are our networking and security. Whether it's cloud-based security or on-prem security, it's uniform. From a security perspective, we have a universal architecture. Whether it's the endpoint, the edge, the cloud, they're all sharing information and intelligence. That's really important. Instead of having bespoke products, these products and solutions need to communicate with each other, so if someone's sick in one area, we're informing the other one. So threat intelligence and network intelligence is huge. Then more importantly, after working with Google, Microsoft, and Amazon, we have on-prem solutions as well, so as customers are going on their multicloud journey, and eventually the workload will transition, you have the same management experience and security experience. So Anthos was a recent announcement, AWS as well, where you can run on-prem Kubernetes, and you can take the same workload and move it to AWS or GCP, but the management model and the control pane model, they are extremely similar and you don't have to learn anything new from a training perspective. >> Okay, but I used the term agnostic, oh, no. You did agnostic, I said open. But you don't care if it's Anthos or VMware, or OpenShift, you don't care. >> Don't care. >> And, architecturally, how is it that you can successfully not care? >> Because the underlying, fundamental principles is you can load any workload you want with this, bare metal, virtualized, or Kubernetes-based containers, they all need the same. For example, everyone needs bread and water. It's not different. So why should you be able to discriminate against a workload or OpenShare if they're using Pivotal Cloud Foundry, for example? The same model, all applications still need security, visibility, networking, and management, but they should not be different across all clouds, and that's traditionally what you're seeing from the other vendors in the market. They're very unique to their stovepipe, and we want to break down those stovepipes across the board, regardless of what app and what workload you have. >> Dave, talk a little bit about the automation that Cisco's delivering to help enable this because there's skill set challenges, just the scale of these environments are more than humans alone can take care of, so how does that automation, I know you're heavily involved in the CX beast of Cisco. How does that all tie together? >> So we're working on a lot of automation projects with our large enterprises and SPs, I mean, you see Rakuten being fairly prominent in the show, but more importantly, we understand not everyone's building a greenfield environment, not everything is purely public cloud. We have to deal with brownfield, we have to deal with third-party ecosystem partners, so you can't have a vertically tight single-vendor solution. So again, to your point, it's completely open. Then we have frameworks, meaning you have orchestrators that can talk down to the device through programmatic interfaces. That's why we see DevNet surrounding us, but then more importantly, we're looking at services that have workflows that could span on-prem, off-prem, third-party, it doesn't really matter. And we stitch a lot of those workloads southbound, but more importantly, northbound to security at ITSM Systems. So those frameworks are coming into life, whether you're a telecom cloud provider or you're a large enterprise. And they slowly fall into those workflows as they become more multi-domain. You saw David Goeckeler the other day, talking about SD-WAN, ECI, and campus wired and wireless. These domains are coming together and that's where we're driving a lot of the automation work. >> So automation is a linchpin to what business outcome? Ultimately, what are customers trying to achieve through automation? >> There's a couple of things. Mean time to value. So if you're a service provider, to your internal customers or external, time to value and speed and agility are key. The other ones are mean time to repair and mean time to detect. If I can shorten the time to detect and shorten time to react, then I can take proactive and preemptive action in situations that may happen. So time to value is really, really important. Cost is a play, obviously, 'cause when you have more and more machines doing your work, your OPEX will come down, but it's really not purely a cost play. Agility and speed are really driving automation to that scale as we're working with folks like Rakuten and others. >> What do you see, Dave, as the big challenges of achieving automation when customers, first of all, I was talking like, 10, 15 years ago people, they were afraid of automation. Some still are. But they I think understand as part of a digital transformation, they got to automate. So what are the challenges that they're having and how are you helping them solve them? >> So typically, what people have thought about automation has been more network-centric, but as we just discussed multicloud, automation is extending all the way to the public cloud, at the workload or at the functional level, if you're running in Lambda, for example. And then more importantly, traditionally, customers have been leveraging Python scripts and things of that nature, but the days of scripters are there, but they cannot scale. You need a model-driven framework, you need model-driven telemetry to get insight. So I think the learning curve of customers moving to a model-driven mindset is extremely important, and it's not just about the network alone, it's also about the application. So that's why we're driving a lot of our frameworks and education and training. And talent's a big gap that we're helping with with our training programs. >> Okay, so you're talking about insights. There's a lot of data. The saying goes, "data is plentiful, insights aren't." So how do you get from data to insights? Is that where the machine intelligence comes in? Maybe you can explain that. >> There's a combination. Machines can process much faster than humans can, but more importantly, somebody has to drive the 30 or 40 years of experience that Cisco has from our tech, our architects and CX, and our customers and the community that we're developing through DevNet. So taking trusted expertise from humans, from all that knowledge base, combining that with machine learning so we get the best of both worlds. 'Cause you need that experience. And that is driving insight so we can filter the signal from the noise, and then more importantly, how do you take that signal and then, in an automated fashion, push that down to an intent-based architecture across the board. >> Dave, can you take us inside a little bit of your touchpoints into customers? In the old days, it was a CCIE, his job, his title, it was equipment that he would touch, and today, talking about this multicloud and the automation, it's very dispersed as to who owns it, most of what I am managing is not something that's under their purview, so the touchpoints you have into the company and the relationship you have changed a lot in the last three, five years or so. >> Absolutely, 'cause the buying center's also changing, because folks are getting more and more centric around the line of business and want the outcome we want to drive for their clients. So the cloud architecture teams that are being built, they're more horizontal now. You'll have a security person, an application, networking, operations, for example, and what we're actually pioneering, a lot of the enterprises and SPs, is building the site reliability engineering teams, or SRE, which Google has obviously pioneered, and we're bringing those concepts and teams through a CX framework, through telecos, and some of their high-end enterprises initially, and you'll see more around that over the coming months. Our SRE jobs, if you go on LinkedIn, you'll probably see hundreds of them out there now. >> One of the other things we've been watching is Cisco has a very broad portfolio. This whole CX piece has to make sure that, from a customer's standpoint, no matter where the portfolio, whether core, edge, IOT, all these various devices, I should have a simplified experience today, which isn't necessarily, my words, Cisco's legacy. How do you make sure, is software a unifying factor inside the company? Give us a little bit about those dynamics inside. >> Absolutely, so we take a life cycle approach. It's not one and done. From the time there's a concept where you want to build out a blueprint, but there's no transformation journey, we have to make sure we walk the client through preparation, planning, design, architecture optimization, but then making sure they actually adopt, and get the true value. So we're working with our customers to make sure that they go around the entire life cycle, from end to end, from cradle to grave, and be able to constantly optimize. You're hearing the word continuous pretty much everywhere. It's kind of the fundamental of CICD, so we believe in a continuous life cycle approach that we're walking the customers end to end to make sure from the point of purchase to the point of decommissioning, making sure they're getting the most value out of the solutions they're getting from Cisco. >> All right Dave, we'll give you the last word on Cisco Live 2019. Thoughts? Takeaways? >> I think there's just amazing energy here, and there's a lot more to come. Come down to the CX booth and we'll have to show you some more gadgets and solutions where we're taking our forward customers. >> Great. David, thank you very much for coming to The Cube. >> Pleasure, thank you. >> All right, 28,000 people and The Cube bringing it to you live. This is Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. Lisa Martin is also in the house. We'll be right back from Cisco Live San Diego 2019, Day 3. You're watching The Cube.

>> Live, from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back, live CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas with Dell Technology World 2019. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, winding down three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We've got two senior executives from Dell Technologies here with us, Greg Bowen, Senior Vice President, CTO of Office of the CIO Dell Technologies and Garry Wiseman, Senior Vice President, office of the CIO. Guys, welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thank you. >> Great to be here. >> So, we had Howard on, we had the CFO Tom Sweet on, digital experience is a big part of it. On the news announcements, a lot of Cloud stuff, but also a lot of, you know, workplace, workforce, human resource kind of vibe around Client Edge, digital technologies, unified workspaces, all pointing to the benefits of what Cloud and data can do, ultimately at the end of the day, that's what drive great value in apps, but also, user experience. I mean, people are workin', they're mobile, this is one of the core themes of the show. You guys have a digital, Dell Digital Way kind of mission. What is that about, tell us about that, 'cause you're doing it in internally, you're not even dog footing, you're building it out in real time, rolling it out, take us through the digital, the Dell Digital Way. >> Yeah, so the Dell Digital Way. If you guys ever Google digital transformation, good luck. The first six or seven results are all paid. Someone's trying to sell you the story on digital transformation. We're out there and you know, we're doing it all ourselves. We go to market with the IT transformation, workforce transformation, security and application transformation. A lot of people are choosing to do those one or two at a time. We're trying to do it all at the same time. So we had to develop a way that will allow us to accelerate our path through that, and we call it the Dell Digital Way. It's really a people process and technology transformation that allows us to change our underlying culture, really the way we interact with the business. Start with the business and the User first, and then work backwards from that. So the people part, it's really taking things from big functional silos that have a lot of matrix overlays, and creating small balance teams that own their code. On process, it's taking very large programs that are just generating risk all the way up and breaking those down into small deliverables where you have very low risk. And then on the technology side, this is where we are drinking our own champagne. We're actually employing our reference architecture from VMware and Pivotal all the way through the DM, Dell EMC technologies in our own data centers, So we can operate as a multi Cloud environment as well. >> So it's not just an announcement from the top saying, okay, just go digital. We're hearing from some of the insiders in the hallways here at the conference, it's hardcore. It's training, agile training, and this is not just you know, talk, talk, talk. You guys are actually getting it done with the training. How important has that been? Because at the end of the day, everyone's has all these kind of, they talk the talk, but might not walk the walk. >> It's training and getting the people right. At the end of the day, we have to change 10,000 hearts and minds in order to transform. And that means you have to touch those people, and you have to actually train them to operate in the new world. If you don't do that, you can put all the technology you want into the environment, if they don't know how to use it, it does you no good. So we're starting with getting our people up skilled, getting them trained. We're taking program managers, putting them through full stack developer training. We've got our first 60 that are going to be graduating this summer. And then we're training the rest of them on the Pivotal Way. So that's really about starting with that customer and working backwards, user centered design. >> How do people get the, how do, how do companies get the people's side right? Because you know, we all kind of work the big companies, you guys are a lot bigger. Now that Dell Technologies, where head of the old world was oh, let's reorganize, it's not working. You reorganize as a matrix organization. You know what agile teams, a lot of kind of HR issues that if someone might be great on one team, not great on another, and so it's really about the attraction of talent, retaining talent, knowing when someone's a fit. Is this ad hoc? How you guys get that right? Because that seems to be a big part of it. Because you got to be agile. You don't be doing reorders after the fact Oh, we didn't post the numbers. We weren't successful. Let's reorder, which means failure. So how do you guys get that right? >> I think it's partly skills assessment going in, right? You actually know which people are right for which skills and there's really key, three key skills in this. There's a product manager, the product designer and engineering. And then there's a lot of people that come into the balanced team after the fact. So it's really understanding where your teams are today, and then getting and finding paths for them in the future. I don't know if you have any. >> Well, I also have to say, obviously, being a company that presents itself as one that's modern, from a development standpoint, our infrastructure a place where really the next generation of developer or product manager or designer wants to come and work because they can see how we're really, you know, operating in this, this digital age, is another key thing for us to make sure that as we, as we recruit folks, particularly as we look at college hires, you know, they're looking for those types of places to come to work. And so part of it's the workplace we'd make sure that we have a modern looking workspace, we have, you know, open seating areas, we have lots of collaboration spaces for people to get together in. And then, of course, with the technologies, we're very lucky to have such a rich set of technologies available within the company itself. So we have, you know, the Pivotal methodology we use, but we have Pivotal Cloud Foundry, which is a great way for people to go and build applications and run them in the Cloud. We actually have all of the the things from a security standpoint that help us make sure that our customer data is secure. And so we can give them that insight as we bring them in, if we're trying to recruit people like, you know, the college hires as well as other industry folks that we're trying to track, that we're in this, this big motion and we have scale. Right, that's the, that's the one big difference. >> South of the playbook then is the playbook to get this right as core team. Get that core fabric of the, whatever the objective is, product engineering, and then put tuning people through. And cross pollinating based upon what the situation might be. I need a little Cloud, I need a little bit of hyper convergence. So you kind of, it's kind of like a combined workout. It's kind of like sports. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I think you know, as Howard had mentioned previously, on some the other sessions, with such a large organization, there are people who are going to be, you know, really game for the change and really want to, you know, shift towards this new way of working. There are folks that are curious, and then there's a small percentage that may decide that this is not a journey they want to be a part of. And so it's really as we go through those, those motions of saying, here are the plans of where we want to go. Who are the people that are going to opt in? And who do we want to help you to move forward from a skills perspective? >> So a couple of challenges that I, that I see, I wonder if you could help us understand how you address, you've got the business, users, apps, and then the tech comes last. Okay, makes sense. But you've got, I'm sure there are a lot of similarities across, how big is Dallas? Like hundreds of thousands of people? Lot of similarities, but there's also some unique requirements. So how do you deal with that? You try to find the overlaps and say, Okay 60%, you know, nail it, and the others, you know, maybe we build snowflakes or maybe we just burned some bridges. How do you guys address those dissimilarities? >> So the good news is, the frameworks that we're building, and the decentralization of decision making allows you to address some of those dissimilarities. We've got applications that have built ground up Cloud native, they're a green field, they've started in the Cloud, they started on PCF. And they are perfectly, really prepared for this journey. We have other applications that have been sitting in the data center for decades, right? And, and everything in between. We found that we can create technology pipelines that can actually get all those applications to production the same way. So there's one thing out of the way, the building process of writing software and deploying it to production standardized. The next step is when you decentralize decision making and you get the product teams to own their code, you get better decisions. So it's about creating a framework that allows you to handle the variety of challenges and use cases that are thrown at you. >> Okay, so you're also a 35 year old company, you got, there's all this technical debt hanging around. How do you deal with that? Maybe you could give some examples of situations where you said, Okay, this part of the portfolio, we're going to leave alone, maybe some old cobalt mainframe. You're not that old, (laughing) Oracle database, and we're not going to touch that. But, but how do you deal with that technical debt challenge? >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, the way we've looked at it is really, where's the need for us to move fast? Because when you look at digital transformation, it's really about making sure that yes, we're customer centric, we have high quality, but also that we can move quickly with the new expected speeds of business. And so we've looked at it in the respect that a lot of the customer facing type of environment, so dell.com, or our b2b site for customers, or anything that's service facing, those are the ones that we want to make sure we focus on iterating quickly versus, you know, the order management system per se. So the order management system, you know, it's, it's an area that we're working on from a transformation standpoint, but it's not as critical to be able to move as quick there to keep up with customer features that they're expecting in this digital age. And so we we look at it from a portfolio standpoint, and again, from an outcome perspective, and where do we want to have an impact with the customers or the employees will feel most immediately? And so that's how we prioritize things in the question. >> Another question, John, I like to ask guys like you, you mentioned drinking your own champagne before, but, well, a lot of times, you know, the product guys are coming to you with, you know, things that are in beta perhaps, champagnes not quite ready yet. (laughing) >> That's want to be champagne, you know. >> So you, I'm sure, have a lot of people trying to hey, try this out, you guys are busy. You're trying to, you know, drive, you know, company value. What role do you play in that regard? In terms of beta testing? You know, do people love you, do they hate you? You like, you tell on them? How does that all work? >> We should be our first and best customer, and actually our hardest one. So, you know, we've actually taken some of the container technology and run it through its paces. And early revs of that just wasn't ready for us. But we did put it into a non production environment and started working on okay, how can we utilize this, for maybe non production workloads, some of the DevOps stuff, we're just needing, say, runners in a container to move code from point A to point B, so we can start flexing it, and exercising it and give feedback where, you know what, it's not going to really handle some of our production workloads. But here's what you need to do. So we want to be the first and hardest customer. >> Yeah, I was going to say it's not always a negative in that, yes, we might encounter issues. So we've we've adopted PCF, the Pivotal Cloud Foundry a lot over the last year and applications. And yes, we discovered things that either it couldn't do, or other issues with, and the fact that we have that close relationship with the product team, we can actually ask for new features that they will actually then go ahead and develop for us in order to support our business. >> I presume there's such a large portfolio, you have to be somewhat selective, right? You can't just take every new product, okay. And so how do you measure the value? What are the key metrics that you're trying to lever? >> Yeah, so when we went and did this, we built a business case, right? Because it's a sizable investment. And we look at adoption of behaviors. So are you adopting the methodology, the Agile pivotal methodology? Are you adopting test driven development, then how does that impact our key performance indicators? Are we reducing user incidents and production incidents? Are we getting stories from the business into production faster? Or is the velocity picking up? And then all of those outcomes lead to the business outcomes. Are we reducing our total spend? Are we becoming more technology focused, more development focused, then say program management focused, so we have a nice cascade of adoption of behaviors key performance indicator changes, and then actually business metric outcomes. >> You guys make it sound so easy. >> Right, Greg and Garry, thanks for spending the time. I know you guys have a hard stop. But I want to get you know, one last, a couple quick questions in. One of the things we're hearing is integration, that part of the whole Dell transformation, a lot of glue layer in the past, lot of SI like work being done in IT. How is that going for you guys? How is the heavy lifting of rolling out consistent infrastructure been? And what kind of experiences is that throwing off for you guys, for the end users? >> So I mean, I'd say, although I've only been at the company for the last couple years, you know, I'm a Dell Technologies employee, not necessarily from, from either business before, but from what I've observed, and from what I've seen so far, integration is actually going very well from a systems perspective for both the companies coming together at scale. We have a North Star. So we have a strategy to make sure that where we have multiple systems we want to end up with, with a single system. We're working towards that over the years. And likewise with the infrastructure. We have data centers that we're using, you know, now across different locations, from both the entities as they came together, that we're continuing to optimize and modernize using the latest Dell technology. So, from my perspective, as someone that came into the company a couple years ago, it's very impressive at how well-- >> That, that's where the efficiencies are going to be right there too, right? >> Yes, it's amazing the same of the same, the sales tools as we're integrating those, and making sure that we have tools where the salespeople can sell the whole portfolio across Dell Technologies is another great thing. >> IT guy told me one time, he says "we're in business when we're out of business". >> Correct. Meaning, you've got that heavy lifting out of the way and shifting to the higher value, you know, capabilities with AI, machine learning, do much more higher crafted things. You guys see it the same way. Not that you're out of business, but you know what I'm saying, when you're invisible, it's good, right? >> Our job is to enable the business ultimately, and if no one knows we're there, that's when it's actually working the best. >> Alright guys, thanks so much real quick, go down the line. What is the, take your IT hats off, take your CIO hats off, put your tech hat on, industry participant observer. What is the most important stories being told here at Dell technology? What's the big takeaway? What's the most important stories? >> Yeah, for me, I also own our AI capabilities and Dell digital. So for us, it's just that, that huge amount of data that's being created on a daily basis, and using technology to do something with it. And I think, you know, you have to be ready and prepared for that. So for me, that's one of the biggest takeaways. >> Garry. >> I would simply say that, you know, the dream, I'll be able to run workloads in, whether it's your own infrastructure, or multiple Clouds that are out there and manage it in a single place. That's one of my big takeaways now that we've, we've released that with the, the Dell Cloud. >> Operational seamlessness and then using data to have specialism in apps in every industry that's unique. Tailor is horizontally scalable, but vertically specialized, very, it's like a whole new world. >> Yeah, very exciting. >> Guys, Congratulations, exciting news. We've been talking about this for three years on theCUBE. A more seems like more. You can see some visibility out there, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Cube coverage here with Dave Vallante, I'm John Furrier. Stay with more day three coverage, two sets here in Las Vegas at Dell technology. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies. And it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World here at the Sands Expo in Las Vegas. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Stu Miniman, we are joined by Lewie Newcomb he is the Vice President, Server Storage and HCI Engineering Dell EMC. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE >> Thank you. >> For the first time ever. >> For the first time, I'm excited. Very excited about it. >> Yes well we're happy to have you. So we're talking VxFlex and we have not talked a lot about VxFlex on the show, I now you had a segment earlier. Tell us about your news today. >> Okay, well the big news for the show this week is we've launched an appliance. So traditionally we do a rack level product with VxFlex. So we've launched an appliance, so basically, think half-rack without networking. And then we did some updates to our software that we can talk about. And we also still, and we've added some more platforms. So we added the 840 PowerEdge server. So all of our products are on PowerEdge servers. And the 840 with 4-socket, we now have a great platform for SAP HANA. >> So Lewie let's take it back a sec, because VxFlex, there are some new products, but a main piece of this, this was a rebranding of some of the other pieces in the CI and HCI family. So maybe those people that have a little history, if you can help put this into context as to which brands are gone and under this umbrella. >> Yeah, so I'll just start with the new brands. VxFlex is the brand, VxFlex Ready Nodes, VxFlex Appliance is the new product, VxFlex Integrated Rack. VxFlex OS and VxFlex Manager. So a lot of parts there. >> Simplicity. >> Okay. (laughs) >> The naming is very simple and it's easier to talk about. I think a big improvement over our previous brands. And then, I'll go into some of the details. So, I talked about the Appliance, think about new consumption model, little bit smaller chunk there. But we also updated the software, the OS, so the VxFlex OS we added compression in this release, it's VxFlex 3.0 is the revision, it's shipping today. We added compression and we changed the data layout so we actually have higher performance and small granularity and snapshots. So some storage features were added. We also have many new certifications. So I mentioned the SAP HANA, we also have Epic, both VDI and the database. We also have SAS Analytics has a great white paper talking about our product and the benefits of our product. And we're really a performant product. If you think about, it's a pure software SAN And we can also do HCI, we can also combine the software SAN with the HCI we call that two-layers, the way we refer to the software SAN. >> Alright, so this week there's a lot of discussion about VxRail, so maybe use that a touch point for people to understand. VxRail, joint integration between VMware and Dell. VMware Hypervisor, give us a little compare and contrast as to some of those pieces. >> Great question, the VxRail as you said, it's our, integrated in an entire VMware stack. And some great announcements, I love ACE, if you seen the ACE announcement. So the Flex though is a product that's out there because not all customers are in a VMware environment. We also support bare metal. >> Or even if they use VMware they're not 100% VMware. >> Not 100%, and many of our customers actually have both. For high performance databases they might pick Flex. For more general purpose VDI and things they might pick the Rail and so customers as we talk to 'em, they different needs and we have different products for those, so we give them that choice. >> Well, let's actually walk us through a little bit about the VxFlex customer and sort of, so this customer what are their needs and why is VxFlex the choice? >> And you've been doing software defined for a long time so I always see it this way, you start out with a customer that's transforming their business, they want to get into software defined, they want to prepare themselves for the future. Well that's where we start, we're software defined. And the next thing we look at is, do they need performance? Do need they need some one millisecond latency across you know, 50 nodes, 1000 nodes, we can do that. We're very high performance, so that's why I mentioned the databases. And the other things is, we just talked about is that choice they may not want to use just vSphere, they might want to use other hypervisors, so we support those hypervisors. And then the real interesting thing is that two-layer, because as you know with HCI we combine the application and the stored services all on one node. So in our product we can actually separate those, so you can scale storage and compute separately. And it's still all in one storage pool. So it's a very flexible product that fits that kind of customer's needs. >> Okay, simplicity is really one of the key words that we've heard in this whole trend there. It's interesting having had discussion from CI all the way through HCI, some of the software that allows me to manage it, really makes invisible some of those choices. You just said, well HCI was, I can have some choices between the computing storage, but usually they did go in blocks together versus scaling them separately. Can you talk a little bit about the management suite and what that means from a customer administrator and the infrastructure team as to how they look at this spectrum of offerings. >> Sure, so we have the VxFlex Manager, I mentioned that in the beginning, so that manager is starting to automate that management orchestration. So from deployment to serviceability to provisioning, we launched several new features in that, in this current release 3.2 release. So it, more granularity round the service of the drives and things like that. We'll continue to evolve that. You mentioned that you're hearing that, every customer I talked to this week, number one thing we talk about is more automation, more ease of use, so as they're going into software defined, they're all asking for the same thing and we're going to support that with the VxFlex Manager. >> Alright, great so talk a little bit about the application, you talk about high performance environment, one of the things we've been looking in this space especially is, what are some of the new areas, things like containerization, Kubernetes, is this platform that the customer builds ready for that environment and how do we span from kind of what I have and where I'm going. >> Yeah, so we just launched our Kubernetes plugin, the CSI plugin, so we have some customers already testing that beta and because we have bare metal, we can also support that in that native environment, So most customers they are still using that in a virtualization environment. But they're preparing for the future, they're looking at different options, so it gives them that flexibility if they want to go bare metal. >> So you're 15 years at Dell and you've really spent your career in storage and we're talking about the big customer... Customer list of what they want, they want ease of use, they want simplicity, they want speed. >> They want performance. >> They want performance, so what are the kinds of things that you're thinking about for the next year's? >> Yeah well next year, we're still building out some of the storage services. So later in the year we'll add some new storage services, like we just added compression, so our launch this week was compression and we'll add more and more storage services more data protection, more replication. We'll continue in that path, and more and more management. The management is going to be a key area focus for us. >> Right, can you take us inside some of those customer conversations, good excitement, 15,000 people here. I'm sure you've talked to a lot of customers, what are some of the key concerns that are raising to them and what's the feedback you're getting? >> A lot of the customers the reason they want automation is they want to manage their full environment, 'cause remember at the rack level we've integrated the switching. So they want a predictable outcome and when they have drift, when they want to do security updates, that's most of our conversations, they want us to do more and more automation around that. Compliance against the product itself and then when a security patch comes in. And by the way I'll mention the two-layer, another great advantage of two-layer, a lot of times, these security patches come in only on the compute side. So we can do a security patch on the compute side without disrupting the storage pool, so it's a big advantage so that's 90% of the conversations we're having. >> Yeah, maybe touch on one of the big concerns, you talk about, I want that cloud operating model. When I'm running in any of the public clouds, I don't have to think about what version I'm running. The old days of, oh I had to manage it to in the VCE days, it was the compatibility matrix and then the RCM documentation, how are we doing towards getting to that simple push button, you know I take care of it, securities patches come I don't have to worry about scrambling I've got that taken care of. >> That's nirvana, that's our north star. We're working on that and we're using the Flex Manager as that platform and more and more we're taking those requirements in the Flex Manager and we'll be rolling it out. Our goal is to have that one click upgrade right? That one button, our goal is to be able to do compliance and quick updates, and it's a journey. And it's the most complex part as you know, you mentioned, some older products, it's the most complex part of the solution, is keeping that compliance and that performance where you need it. >> So how do you manage that? I mean as you said it's a huge challenge that your company's facing and yet also all your clients are facing too. >> Well luckily we have a lot smart people. (laughs) and we have great customers. The nice thing you know, Dell's direct, the interaction we've had with customers this week, I mean they're designing with us, they're telling us what they need. And we're not a large large scale business in relative to a server business and using computing. So we have relationships with almost all of our customers. And we go and show them our roadmaps, we go get feedback from them, they help us define what they need and we follow our customers. >> Well it's really interesting, because we know that Dell's turning 35 very soon and middle age is the time where you start to get a little more set in your ways, a little older, a little creakier, but what you're describing is this real collaborative relationship with your customers and not sort of this my way or the highway kind of thing. >> I feel I work in a startup, we're agile, we're listening to our customers, we're doing the right things. We're not focused all just on our business, we're focused on our customer outcomes. We made a big ship this year on my product line of talking about the databases and the certifications and we're really trying to help our customers through those decisions without them having to make all those decisions themselves. >> Yeah, what about the consumption model, some of the other product lines we're talking to are going to manage their services as well as moving towards that OPEX model. How's that fit into the VxFlex? >> Yeah, we're not there yet, of course we're going to lead with our Dell Technologies portfolio, We have some great products in that portfolio. But we'll get there over time. Today, you saw the announcements on day one with VMware, Dell EMC and the cloud platforms. We'll continue to build infrastructure, we'll continue to stay in our lane, where we do really really well and the customers love us. But We'll eventually get to different consumption models. >> So tell us a little bit about this show for you. This is not your first rodeo here at Dell Technologies World. >> And I hope and you're seeing this, this feel like we're one big company now right? We've been three years in the making. And coming to Dell Tech this year, I feel like we're one. And Michael's key note was, the first customer I talked to, you know, everything Michael said, resonated so well with me and so it really feels that way. And just the vibe back there and in the solution expo, it's just, you know at level 10. >> Well right, so we're passed the Dell EMC integration point, but the big thing we've been talking about this week is, you know those seven logos up on the banner behind you there are acting like one. So VxRail designed together, sold together. Can you talk a little bit about where do some of the other pieces of the portfolio fit into place. >> Pivotal Cloud Foundry right? Almost all of us are parting with Pivotal Cloud Foundry and building that stack and offering that service to our customer, you know Secureworks RSA, we all need security right? We're all working there too. And even now, so I work in the PowerEdge team, you know, storage product, so we're working, we're taking PowerEdge and putting it everywhere. So all of our data protection products, RSA, our storage products, we're working PowerEdge everywhere and leveraging that. And the beauty about that is you saw the VxRail ACE announcement right? That's a platform, that's a analytics platform that now we can build on and designing PowerEdge. We can put requirements into PowerEdge to make that a much richer telemetry box and really start getting some analytics in that solve some problems, predictive analysis and things like that. So yeah, it's been fun, I've been on the tip of the spear of this, you know, coming from the storage side, and I'm starting to see it really really come together this year, here at this show. >> Alright, so want to give you the final word, VxFlex I know people, if they went through the expo hall they could see it, touch it and the like. For those that didn't make it to the show, what do you want the key takeaway for VxFlex? >> So we're pure software defined, we're very high performance, we're ideal for your databases, we're ideal for scale, we can scale up to 1000 nodes or higher. And we have many many customers doing that. We have running in the show this week, a database running at six nodes over a million IOPS, sub one millisecond latency. So... >> A good note to end on, (laughs) powerful. >> Bang yeah. (laughs) >> Lewie thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, appreciate it, it's been fun. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman, we will have so much more of day three of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World coming up in just a little bit. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017, brought to you by Samsung. >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference, SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. Next guest is Patrick Moorhead who is the president and principal analyst at Moor Insights and Strategy, friend of theCUBE. We see him everywhere we go. He's quoted in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, all the top publications, and today, he was just on Power Lunch on CNBC. Here for our Power Cube segment, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you again. >> Hey, thanks for being here, and I appreciate you putting up with me heckling you from outside of theCUBE. >> Always great to have you on. Hard hitting, you're one of the best analysts in the business. We know you work hard, we see you at all the events that we go to. I got to get your take, Samsung. Obviously now obviously you run in parallel, at some point on Amazon, obviously winning in the cloud. Samsung downplaying their cloud, but calling about smart things. I get that, the cloud is kind of fragmented, they're trying to hide the ball there, I get that. But they talk about IOT which you got to talk about cloud without IOT, what's your analysis of Samsung? >> Yeah so first off, Samsung is a collection of really really successful stovepiped companies, right? You have displays, you have semiconductors, you have mobile phones, you have all these different areas and they say a lot of times your strength is sometimes your weakness, and the divisions just don't talk a whole lot. But what they did, and this is the first time I've seen this in a long time, is they got on the same page and said you know, we have to work together because IOT and connected and intelligent connectedness can't be done in stovepipes, we can't all go do our thing. So they're agreeing on standards, they're doing some really good stuff. >> And obviously we know from the cloud game now go back to the enterprises, more consumer, backing in from the edge, obviously the edge being devices and other things, I get that. But now the horizontally scalable nature of the cloud is the holy grail, we've seen Amazon's success continue to boom, they do more compute than any other cloud out I think combined. Maybe outside Google with their internal cloud. That horizontal resource pool, serverless as example trend, IOT, you got to have, the stovepipes got to be decimated. However, you need specialism at the application level. >> That's exactly right, and a smartphone will act a little bit differently from a camera which would be different from a refrigerator as we saw, right? Samsung wants the new meeting area to be, well not the new meeting area, we all meet in the kitchen, but the connected meeting area. So they all act differently, so they have to have even though they're different devices they have to connect into that horizontal cloud to make it efficient enough and effective enough for good responsiveness. >> I like the message of smart things, I think that's phenomenal, and I like that 'cause it connects their things, which are consumer things, and people like 'em, like you said very successful stovepipes. The question that I ask here and I try to get the execs to talk about it but they weren't answering yet, and I think it's by design. They're not talking about the data. Because again at the end of the day what's different from Alibaba again last week when I was in China, they are very up front. We're all about data acquisition and using the data to fuel the user experience. >> Right. >> That has to traverse across stovepipes. So is Samsung baked in that area, they have things going on, what's your analysis of data traversal across, is Bixby 2.0 the answer? >> So companies have to take, particularly consumer companies related to the cloud, have to have one or two paths. The one that says, we're not going to mine personal data to either sell you products or run ads, so Facebook, AWS and even Google, that's their business model, and then the other side you have people like Apple who are only going to use the data to make the products and experiences better. I think, I'll just pontificate here, the reason you're not getting a straight answer is I don't think they know exactly what they want to do yet. Because look at the market cap of Facebook. Apple, and even Amazon is planning to start and expand their own ad network. So I just don't think they know yet. Now what I would recommend to them is- >> Or they might not have visibility on it product-wise. So there's knowing what to do, or how to do it, versus the product capability. >> Well they have access to a ton of data, so if you're using Samsung Mail, if you're using, they know every application gets deleted, usage models of those applications. So they know a lot more than I think people think. They have a lot more data than people probably give them credit for. >> So they're going to hide the ball, I think they said that they're buying more time, I would agree with you there. Alright, question on IOT. Do you think that hangs together, that strategy? Obviously security updates to chip-level, that's one thing, can they succeed with IOT in this emerging stovepipe collapse fabric that they're bringing out? >> So I need to do a little bit more research on the security and also their scalability. 'Cause if you're going to connect billions of devices you have to have scalability and we already saw what GE Predix did, right? They did an about-face and partnered up with AWS realizing they just couldn't handle the scale and the complexity. And the second thing is the security model and how things like RM Embed Cloud and the latest announcements from Intel which is how from a gateway perspective you secure this work. So I have to go do some research on this. >> And by the way it's a moving train, you mentioned the GE thing, great example, I mean let's take that example, I got to ask you about cloud, because let's talk about Amazon, Cloud Foundry. Cloud Foundry became this thing and Pivotal tried to take and shape it, now they're claiming huge success, some are questioning the numbers. They're claiming victory on one hand, and I hear record, record, record! But I just don't see any cloud on Cloud Foundry out there. >> Yeah and I think the reason is, PCF, Pivotal Cloud Foundry is a Fortune 500 thing. And if I compare Fortune 500 to startups and other people, there's not nearly as much activity in the Fortune 500 as there is with the startups and the cloud native companies. So I'm optimistic. >> So you're saying Pivotal Cloud is more Fortune 500, less cloud native? >> Exactly, exactly. >> How about Amazon, what's your take, I know you were on Power Lunch kind of, now you're on the Power Cube, our new segment that you just invented by being here. (laughing) What is the Amazon take, 'cause that Reinvent event's coming up, what's the preview? Obviously we're going to have some one on ones with Jassi and the team beforehand, theCUBE will be there with two sets to come on if you're going to be there I'd love to have you on. >> I'd love to. >> Again, what's the preview for AWS Reinvent? >> AWS right, they had a seven-year headstart on almost everybody and then Azure and GCP just recently jumped in, and if you notice over the past year they've been firing canons at each other. One vendor says hey, I do by the minute pricing, and then another one says, oh, I have the by-the-second pricing, right, and I'm going to accept VMWare, oh no I'm not doing VMWare, I'm doing SAP. So what you have now is a feature fest and a fistfight now. AWS is no longer the only man standing here. So what I'm expecting is they are going to come in and make the case that, okay, we still are the best choice not just for IAS but also for PAS, okay? Because they have a lot of competition. And also I think they're going to fill in gaps in some of the regional services where oh they don't have GPUs in a certain country. Oh, I don't have FPGAs over here. I think they're going to fill that in to look better against GCP and Azure. >> I know you cover Intel as well, I was just over there and saw some of the folks there, I saw some of the Linux Foundation folks, obviously you're seeing Intel be more a computing company, not a chip company anymore, they have that Five-G end to end UK Mind and Mobile World Congress, talked a little bit about Five-G. End-to-end is big message here at Samsung, how is Intel positioned in all this, what's your take on Intel? >> Yes so I think related to Intel, I think in some areas they're competitors, because they have their own gateway solutions, they don't have cloud solutions but they have the gateway solutions. Regarding to some of the endpoints, Intel has exited the small cork endpoints in watches, so I would say right now there's less overlap with Intel now. >> From Samsung perspective? >> Exactly, now on the back end it's more than likely there's a 99% chance that the back end doing the cloud processing is going to be Intel. >> If I'm Samsung, why wouldn't I want to partner within Samsung? 'Cause they make their own chips, is that the issue or is it more a...? >> No, I think Samsung up until this point hasn't taken a lot of responsibility for the cloud. So this is a first step, and I think it would make a good partnership. >> And Intel could get the home theater market, the home, how connected home is, but every CES going back 10 years has been a connected home theme. Finally they could get it here. >> That's right, and I have seen Intel get into things, a lot of Amazon's products with the cameras in the bedroom and in the bathroom, scary stuff. But Movidius, silicon that's doing object recognition, that is a place where I think they compete which frankly Samsung could develop the silicon but they just don't have it. Silicon doesn't have capability that a Movidius has. That can be used in any type of camera. >> Okay so final question I know we got to break here and I appreciate you coming on, making room for you, PowerCUBE segment here in San Francisco at SDC 2017. Ecosystem, we hear the host of SDC, Thomas Coe, come up and saying we're going to be honest and transparent to the community here at large in San Francisco and around the globe, kind of incurring that they've been kind of stovepiped and they're going to open up, they believe in open cloud, open IOT, and he talks about ecosystem, I'm not seeing a lot of ecosystem partners around here. What does Samsung need to do to, well first of all, what's your letter grade on the ecosystem and certainly they got an opportunity. What moves should they be making to build a robust healthy ecosystem, because we know you can't do it end to end without support in the white spaces. >> Yeah so I go to a lot of the developer conferences, whether it's Microsoft Build, Apple WWDC, and even the enterprise ones, and this is a smaller, low-key event and I think first and foremost, operating system drives a lot of the ecosystem. And other than Tizen they don't have an operating system. So what they're doing is they're working on the connectedness of it, which is a different kind of ecosystems, it's farther up in the stack, but I think what they can do is they have to be very clear and differentiated and I think back to our earlier, our first conversation, they're not going to mine the data, therefore they're the safe place for you, consumer and our smart things ecosystem, to put your data. And we're going to help you make money to do that, because I don't think Google is as interested in that and I don't think Amazon is as interested in that either. >> They were clear, they said permission-based and even if they don't know what their permission is offering we're going to take the conservative route and protect the data, but they still got to use the data. They got to get their cloud story together, if they want to do the data play, cloud has to be more clear at least in my mind. >> Well I think what they can do is they're sitting on and they will sit on a bigger treasure trove of data that can help their partners deliver better experiences and products, because if you're at the epicenter and you're at that smart things hub? You know everything that's going on in that home whether it's your stuff or your partner's stuff. >> Yeah and they got to be trusted, and they got to be transparent, okay. Patrick Moorhead from Moorhead Insights here on theCUBE, great analyst, follow him everywhere on Twitter, your Twitter handle is, let me just get the Twitter handle. >> It's @patrickmoorhead. >> Okay, @patrickmoorhead on Twitter. He travels the world, gets the data and so does theCUBE, traveling for you, this is John Furrier. More after this short break. (electronic beats)

>> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. it's theCUBE, covering .conf2017. Brought to you by Splunk. (techno music) >> Well welcome back here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage at .conf2017. Splunks get together here in the nation's capital, Washington D.C. We are live here on theCUBE along with Dave Vellante. I'm John Walls. Glad to have you with us here for two days of coverage. We're joined now by Team Dell EMC I guess you could say. Colin Gallagher, who's the Senior Director of VxRail Product Marketing. Colin, good to see you, sir. >> Likewise. >> And Cory Minton, many time Cuber. Colin, you're a Cuber, as well. Principle Engineer, Data Analytical Leader at Dell EMC, and BigDataBeard.com, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Alright, and just in case, you have a special session going on. They're going to be handing these out a little bit later. So, I'm going to let you know that I'm prepared >> Cory: I love that, that's perfect. >> With you and your many legions of fans, allow me to join the club. >> That's awesome. Well welcome, we're so glad to have you. You've got a big data beard. You don't have to have a beard to talk big data at Dell EMC, but it certainly is not frowned upon if you do. >> John: Alright, well this would be the only way I'd ever grow one. >> There you go. >> I can promise you that. >> Looks good on you. >> I like the color, though, too. Anyway, they'll be handing these out at the special session. That'll be a lot of fun. Fellows, big announcement last week where you've got a marriage of sorts with Splunk technology and what Dell EMC is offering on VxRail. Tell us a little bit about that. Ready Systems is how you're branding this new offer. >> So we announced our Ready Systems for Splunk. These are turnkey offerings of Dell EMC technology pre-certified and pre-validated with Splunk and pre-sized. So we give you the option to buy from us both your Splunk solution and the underlying infrastructure that's been certified and validated in a wide variety of flavors based on top of VxRail, based on top of VxRack, based on top of some of our other storage products, as well, that gives you a full turnkey implementation for Splunk. So as Splunk is moving from the land of the hoodies and the experimenters to more mainstream running the business, these are the solutions that IT professionals can trust from both brands that IT professionals (mumbles). >> So you're both a Splunk reseller and a seller of infrastructure, is that right? >> Indeed. So we actually, we joined Splunk in a partnership as a strategic alliance partner a little over a year ago. And that gave us the opportunity to act as a reseller for Splunk. And we've recently gone through a rationalization of their catalog, so we actually have now an expanded offering. So, customers have more choice with us in terms of the offers that we provide from Splunk. And then part of our alliance relationship is that not only are we a reseller, but because of our relationship they now commit engineering and resources to us to help validate our solutions. So we actually work hand in hand with their partner engineering team to make sure that the solutions that we're designing from an infrastructure perspective at least meet or exceed the hardware requirements that Splunk wants to see their platform run on top of. >> Dave: Okay, cool. So you're a data guy. >> Indeed. >> You've been watching the evolution of things like Hadoop. When I look at the way in which customers deal with Hadoop, you know, ingest, you know, clean or transform, analyze, etc., etc., operationalize, there seem to be a lot of parallels between what goes on in that big data world and then the Splunk world, although Splunk is a package, it seems to be an integrated system. What are the similarities? What are the differences? And, what are the requirements for infrastructure? >> I think that the ecosystems, like you said, it's open source versus a commercial platform with a specific objective. And if you look at Splunk's deployment and their development over the years they've really started going from what was really a Google search for log, as Doug talked about today in the kickoff, to really being a robust analytics platform. So I think there's a lot of parallels in terms of technology. We're still ... It's designed to do many of the same things, which is I need to ingest data into somewhere, I need to make sense of it. So, we index it or do some sort of curation process to where then I can ask questions of it. And whether you choose to go the open source route, which is a very popular route, or you choose to go a commercial platform like Splunk, it really depends on your underlying call it ethos, right? It's that fundamental buy versus build, right? For somebody to achieve some of the business outcomes of like deploying a security event and information management tool like Splunk can do, to do that in open source may require some development, some integration of disparate open source platforms. I think Splunk is really good about focusing specifically on the business outcome that they're trying to drive and speeding their customers' time to value with that specific outcome in mind, whereas I think the open source community, like the Hadoop community, I think it offers maybe some ability to do some things that Splunk maybe wouldn't be interested in, things like rich media analytics, things that aren't good for Splunk indexing. >> Are there unique attributes of a data rich workload that you've accommodated that's maybe different from a traditional enterprise workload, and what are those? >> Yeah, so at the end of the day any application is going to have specific bottlenecks, right? One of the basis of performance engineering is move the bottleneck, right? In enterprise applications we had this evolution of originally they were kind of deployed in a server, and then we saw virtualization and shared storage really come in vogue for a number of years. And that's true in these applications, these data rich applications, as well. I think what we're starting to see is that regardless of what the workload is, whether it's a traditional business application like Oracle, SAP, or Microsoft or it's a data application like Splunk, anytime it becomes critical to the operation of a business organizations have to start to do things that we've done to every enterprise IT app in the past, which is we align it to our strategy. Is it highly available? Is it redundant? Is it built on hardware that we can be confident in that's going to be up and running when we need it? So I think from a performance and an engineering perspective, we treat each workload special, right? So we look at what Splunk requirements are and we understand that their requirements may be slightly different than running SAP or Oracle, and that's why we build the bespoke systems like our Ready System for Splunk specifically, right? It's not a catch all that hey it works for everything. It is a specifically designed platform to run Splunk exceptionally well. >> So Colin, a lot of the data practitioners that I talk to at this show and other data oriented shows like, "Ah, infrastructure. "I don't care about infrastructure." Why should they care about infrastructure? Why does infrastructure matter, and what are the things that they should know? >> Infrastructure does matter. I mean infrastructure, if youre infrastructure isn't there, if your infrastructure isn't highly available, as Cory said, if it lets you down in the middle of something, your business is going to shut down, right? Any user can say, "Talk about what happened "the last time you had a data center event, "and how long were you offline, "and what did that really mean for your business? "What's the cost of downtime for you?" And everything we build at an application level and a software level really rests on an infrastructure foundation, right? Infrastructure is the foundation of your data center and the foundation of your IT, and so infrastructure does matter in the sense that, as Cory said, as you build mission critical platforms on it the infrastructure needs to be highly reliable, highly available, and trusted, and that's what we really focus on bringing. And as applications like Splunk evolve more into that mainstream world, they need to be built on that mission critical, reliable, managed infrastructure, right? It's one thing for infrastructure development, and this kind of happens in the history of IT, as well. It happened in client server back in the day. You know, new applications ... Even the web environment I remember a company was running, one of my clients was running a web server under their secretary's desk, and she was administering in half time. You would never have a large company doing that. >> They'd be back up (mumbles). Before you leave. >> As it becomes more important it becomes more central, but also it becomes more important to centrally manage those, right? I'm a 15 year storage veteran, for good or for worse, and what we really sell in storage is selling centralized management of that storage. That's the value that we bring from centralized infrastructure versus a bunch of servers that are sitting distributed around the environment under someone's desk is that centralized management, the ability to share the resources across them, the ability to take one down while the others keep running, shift that workload over and shift it back. And that's what we can do with our Ready Systems. We can bring that level of shared management, shared performance management, to the Splunk world. >> I'll tell you, one of the things that we talked about, we talked about in a number of sessions this week, is application owners, specifically the folks that are here at this conference, need to understand that when they decide to make changes at the application level, whether they like infrastructure or they think it's valuable or not, what they need to understand is that there are impacts, and that if you look at the exciting things that were announced today around Enterprise Security updates, right? Enterprise Security is an interesting app from Splunk, but if a customer goes from just having Splunk Enterprise to running Enterprise Security as a premium application, there's significant downstream impacts on infrastructure that if the application team doesn't account for they can basically put themselves in a corner from a performance and a capacity perspective that can cause serious problems and slow down the business outcome that they're trying to achieve because they didn't think about the infrastructure impacts. >> Well, and what they want really is they want infrastructure that they can code, right? And we talked about this at VMworld we were talking about off camera that cloud model, bringing that cloud model to your data as oppose to trying to force your business into the cloud. So what about Ready Systems mimics that cloud model? Is it a cloud like infrastructure? Wondering if you could talk-- >> Yeah, I think it's that cloud like experience. Because we know we're in a multi cloud world, right? Cloud is not a place, cloud is an operating model, right? And so I think that the Ready Systems specifically provides a couple of things that are that cloud like experience, which is simple ordering and configuration and consumption that is aligned to the application, right? So we actually align the sizing of the system to the license size and the expected experience that this one customer would have so they get that very curated bespoke system that's designed specifically for them, but in a very easy to consume fashion that's also validated by the software vendor, in this case Splunk, that they say, "These are known good configurations "that you will be successful with." So we give customers that comfort that, "Hey, this is a proven way "to deploy this application successfully, "and you don't have to go through "a significant architecture design concept "to get to that cloud like experience." Then you layer in the fact that what makes up the Ready System, which is it is a platform powered by, in the VxRail case powered by VMware, right, ESX and vSAN, which obviously if you look at any of the cloud providers everything is virtualized at the end of the day for the most part, or at least most of the environments are. And so we give, and VMware has been focused on that for years and years of giving that cloud like experience to their customers. >> You talk about, you mentioned selling, sort of reseller, you've got this partnership growing, you're a customer. So, you have all these hats, right, and connections with Splunk. What does that do for you you think just in general? What kind of value do you put on that having these multiple perspectives to how they operate whether it's in your environment or what you're doing for your customers using their insights? >> Yeah, I think at the end of the day we're here to make it simpler for customers. So if we do the work, and we invest the time and energy and resources in this partnership, and we go do the validation, we do the joint engineering, we do the joint certification, that's work that customers don't have to do, and that's value that we can deliver to them that whatever reason they buy Splunk for whatever workload or business outcome they're trying to achieve, we accelerate it. That's one of the biggest values, right? And then you look at who do they interact with in the field? Well, it's engineers from our awesome presales team from around the world that we've actually trained in Splunk. So we have now north of 25 folks that have Splunk SE certifications that are actually Dell EMC employees that are out working with Splunk customers to build platforms and achieve that value very, very quickly. And then them understanding that, "Oh, by the way, Dell EMC is also a user of Splunk, "a great customer of Splunk "and a number of interesting use cases "that we're actually replatforming now "and drinking our own Kool Aid so to say," that I think it just lends credibility to it. And that's a lot of the reason why we've made the investments in being part of this awesome show, but also in doing things like providing the applications. So we actually have four apps in Splunkbase that are available to monitor Dell EMC platforms using Splunk. So I think customers just get a wholistic experience that they've got a technology partner that wants to see them be successful deploying Splunk. >> I wonder if we could talk about stacks, because I've heard Chad Sack-edge talk about stack wars, tongue and cheek, but his point is that customers have to make bets. You've heard him talk about this. You've got the cloud stacks, whether it's Azure or AWS or Google. Obviously VMware has a prominent stack, maybe the most prominent stack. And there's still the open source, whether it's Hadoop or OpenStack. Should we be thinking about the Splunk stack? Is that emerging as a stack, or is it a combination of Splunk and these other? >> You know, we actually had that conversation today with some of the partner engineering team, and I don't know that I would today. I think Splunk continues to be, it's its own application in many cases. And I actually think that a lot of what Splunk is about is actually making sure that those stacks all work. So there was even announcements made today about a new app. So they have a new app for Pivotal Cloud Foundry, right? So if you think about stacks for application development, if you're going to hit push on a new application you're going to need to monitor it. Splunk is one of those things that persistent. The data is persistent. You want to keep large amounts of data for long periods of time so that you can build your models, understand what's really going on in the background, but then you need that real time reporting of, "Hey, if I hit push on a Cloud Foundry app "and all of a sudden I have an impact "to the service that's underlying it "because there's some microservice that gets broken, "if I don't have that monitoring platform "that can tell me that and correlate that event "and give me the guidance to not only alert against it "but actually go investigate it and act against it, "I'm in trouble." The stacks, I think many of them have their own monitoring capabilities, but I think Splunk has proven it that they are invested in being the monitoring and the data fabric that I think is wanting to help all the stacks be successful. So I don't necessarily put it in the stack. And I kind of don't put Hadoop in its own stack, either, because I think at the end of the day Hadoop needs a stack for deployment models. So you may see it go from a physical construct of being, a bit trying to be its own software that controls the underlying hardware, but I think you're seeing abstraction layers happen everywhere. They're containerizing Hadoop now. Virtualization of Hadoop is legit. Most of the big cloud providers talk about the decoupling of compute from storage in Hadoop for persistent and transient clusters. So I think the stacks will be interesting for application development, and applications like Splunk will be one of two things. They'll either consume one of those stacks for deployment or they'll be a standalone monitoring tool that makes us successful. >> So you don't see in the near term anyway Splunk becoming an application development platform the way that a lot of the-- >> Cory: They may have visions of it. That's not, yeah. >> They haven't laid that out there. It's something that we've been bounding around here. >> Yeah, I think it's interesting. Again, I think it goes back to .. Because the flexibility in what you can do with Splunk. I mean we've developed some of our own applications to help monitor Dell EMC storage platforms, and that's, it's interesting. But in terms of building what we'd I guess we'd consider like traditional seven factor app development, I don't know that it provides it. >> Yeah, well it's interesting because, I'm noodling here, Doug Merritt said, "Hey, we think we're going to be the next five billion, "10 billion, 20 billion dollar ecosystem slash company," and so you start to wonder, "Okay, how does that TAM grow to that point? That's one avenue that we considered. I want to talk about the anatomy of a transaction and how that's evolved. Colin, you mentioned Client Server, and you think about data rich applications going from sort of systems of record and the transactions associated with that. And while there were many going to Client Server and HTTP, and then now mobile apps really escalated that. And now with containers, with microservices, the amount of data and the complexity of transactions is greater and greater and greater. As a technologist, I wonder if you could sort of add some color to that. >> Yeah, I think as we kind of go down a path of application stacks are interesting, but at the end of the day we're still delivering a service, right? At the end of the day it's always about how do I deliver service, whether it's a business service, it's a mobile application, which is a service where I could get closer to my customer, I could transact business with them on a different model, I think all of it ... Because everything has gone digital, everything we do is digital, you're seeing more and more machines get created, there's more and more IP addressed devices out there on the planet that are creating data, and this machine generated data deluge that we're under right now it ain't slowing down, right? And so as we create these additional devices, somebody has got to make sense of this stuff. And if you listen to a lot of the analysts they talk about machine data is the most target rich in terms of business value, and it's their fastest growing. And it's now at a scale because we've now created so many devices that are creating their own logs, creating their own transactional data, right, there's just not that many tools that out of the box make it simple to collect the data, search the data, and derive value from it in the way that Splunk does. You can get to a lot of the things that Splunk can deliver from an outcome other ways with other platforms, but the simplicity and the ability to do it with a platform that out of the box does it and has a vibrant community of folks that will help you get there, it's a pretty big deal. So I think it's, you know, it's interesting. I don't know, like under the covers microservices are certainly interesting. They're still services. They're just smaller and packaged slightly differently and shared in a different way. >> And a lot more of them. >> Yeah, and scaled differently, right? And I totally get that, but at the end of the day we're still from a Splunk perspective and from a data perspective, we've still got to make sense of all of it. >> Right, well, I think the difference is just the amount of data. You talked about kind of new computing models, serverless sort of, stateless, IoT coming into play. It's just the data curve is reshaping. >> Well, it's not just the amount of data, it's the number of sources. The data is exploding, but also, as Cory mentioned, it's exploding because it's coming from so many places. Your refrigerator can generate data for you now, right? Every single ... Everything that generates Internet, anything doing anything now really has a microprocessor in it. I don't know if you guys saw my escape room at VMworld. There were 12 microprocessors running this escape room. So one of the things we played about doing was bring it here and trying to Splunk the escape room to actually see real time what the data was doing. And we weren't able to ship it back from Barcelona in time, but it would've been interesting to see, because you can see just the centers that are in that room real time and being able to correlate all that. And that's the value of Splunk is being able to pull that from those disparate sources altogether and give you those analytics. >> Yeah, it's funny you talk about an IoT use case. So we've got these... Our partner, who's a joint partner of both Dell EMC and Splunk, we actually have these Misfit devices that are activity trackers. And we're actually-- >> Misfit device? >> Misfit. Yeah, it's a brand. >> John: Love it. >> It's fitting, I think. But we have these devices that we gave away to a number of the attendees here, and we actually asked them if they're willing to participate. They can actually use the app on your phone to grab the data. And by simply going to a website they can allow us to pull the data from their device about their activity, about their sleep. And so we actually have in our booth and in Arrow's booth we're Splunking Conf and it's called How Happy is Conf? And so you can actually see Splunk running, and by the way, it's running in Arrow's lab. It's running on top of Dell EMC infrastructure designed for Splunk. You can actually see us Splunking how happy conf attendees are. And we're measuring happiness by their sleep. How much sleep-- >> John: Sleep quality and-- >> The exercise, the number of steps, right? So we have a little battle going between-- >> Is more sleep or less sleep happy? >> Are consumption behaviors also tracked on that? I just want to know. I'm curious. >> It's voluntary. You'd have to provide that. >> Alright, because that's another measure of happiness. >> It certainly is. But it's just a great use case where we talk about IoT and the number of sources of data that Splunk as a platform ... It's very, very simple to deploy that platform, have a web service that's able to pull that data from an API from a platform that's not ours, right, but bring that data into our environment, use Splunk to ingest and index that data, then actually create some interesting dashboards. It's a real world use case, right? Now, how much people really want to (mumbles) Splunk health devices we'll determine, but in the IoT context it's an absolute analog for what a lot of organizations are trying to do. >> Interesting, good stuff. Gentlemen, thanks for being with us. We appreciate that. Cory, it's probably not the real deal, but as close as I'm going to go. Good luck with your session. We appreciate the time to both of you, and you and your Misfit. Back with more here on theCUBE coming up in just a bit here in Washington D.C. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Good night everybody, this is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris and we are live here at VMworld 2017. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Kevin Gray is here as the director of product marketing for hybrid cloud platforms at Dell EMC. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks. >> OK, so, we're here talking cloud, everybody's cloud crazy, but it seems like, as Peter said, the technology has matured. >> Kevin: Yeah. >> And we're actually at a point where we can deliver what we've been talking about for the past five or six years. So how does that relate to what you guys have, what are you showing here at the event, and what are customers saying? >> Peter: Yeah, what are the announcements? What's happening? >> Well, one of the things we're announcing is enhancements to Enterprise Hybrid Cloud. You've heard a lot at VMware about VMware Cloud Foundation with added support for the extract SDDC, which is our turnkey VMware cloud foundation platform. We've also enhanced support for VxRail, so we've added multi-site capabilities, so we now support up to four data center sites, and we've also added support for disaster recovery through Recover Point VM. We're also added support for native hybrid cloud, so with native hybrid cloud we now have a support for... we have a new turnkey platform for VxRail, and we're supporting our new access testing tool, which is really focused on helping developers, right? So what the access testing tool does is it really focuses on when companies are going through and really looking at re-factoring applications for things like when they're going to microservices, it has that ability to really go out and test to make sure the dependencies and services are still there. We also have a capability around called our Application Deployment Tool, which really pushes, as you look to push an application out to multiple instances of foundations of Pivotal Cloud Foundry, you can actually help, it does that in one push. So if you look at PCF, you can use a CF pushkim, and push it out to multiple instances, and in this case, it'll do that in one step. >> So that's all the things that you've done on an individual announcements basis in the tools, but Kevin, let's step back. Let's take the customer's perspective for a second. When you summarize all this-- >> Right. >> So you're standing in front of a customer and you're saying to the customer, "We are pointing towards this vision." >> Right. >> "We want you to be here with us." What is that here? Where do you want them to be as you start to think about designing and priority for this broad portfolio that you have? >> So you heard Bob talk a little bit about sort of customers buying more outcomes, per se, and one of the things you'll see, with for instance our native hybrid cloud, is that ability to really get a repeatable process with Pivotal Cloud Foundry. So if you look at Pivotal Cloud Foundry, they're moving real fast, right? They have a release every 90 days, pretty much, and you need to be on the latest release within nine months-- >> Let me make sure that I understand this. >> When you say "repeatable process "with Pivotal Cloud Foundry," what you're talking about is that the organization, the shop, can think about developing an application in Pivotal, deploying it out on Cloud Foundry, and then running it on whatever underlying hybrid or conversion for structure that they might want and being able to do that over and over and over, so they can increase their focus on the application function that they're generatng. Is that basically what you mean? >> Absolutely, and-- >> So it's that level of repeatability. Focus on the business problem, build it, and then take the pain and suffering out of deploying it wherever it needs to be. >> Absolutely, and maintaining it. So if we look at large customers, as I mentioned, one large financial institution was looking at how do they do this repeatably across multiple data center sites, right? And how do they keep pace with that change over time, you know? That's not an easy process when you're moving really fast, and it's just one of those things where they tried to do it themselves for a while and realized it's better to buy that outcome than to try and create it on their own. >> You know, Dave, I was talking to a large user here on the show floor not too long ago, yesterday, in fact, about the fact that DevOps is not taking the world by storm the way that many people thought it might, and he identified specifically, one of the reasons is because there's not enough support from the technology companies to start packaging and organizing their capabilities, their technology set, their product sets, to support a DevOps mentality. It almost sounds, you haven't said this, Kevin, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it almost sounds as if what you guys are saying is, we're going to start designing and packaging and organizing our systems to support that sort of DevOps orientation so the system administrators can evolve in the way that they need to evolve as the business demands new change. >> Yeah, so if you look at our hybrid cloud platforms, they're really intended to be that easy button for deploying either a full vRealize Suite, vRealize Suites stacked in our Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, or Pivotal Cloud Foundry for native hybrid cloud. Another thing we introduced this week was our ready systems. We have ready systems for VMware and we have ready systems for Pivotal. If you look at the VMware ready system, one of the things we found, for VMware, one of the things we found was that many customers, if you look at Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, it gives you a lot of benefits that a lot of our large enterprise customers are looking for, so, it supports multiple sites, it supports disaster protection, and it supports a turnkey platform where it's an engineered system, but for a lot of customers, it meant that you were always a couple of releases behind. So we give them that experience, right? And we make it a little bit, we give them an opportunity with the ready system to get that support from VMware, where we'll take on the HCI piece and support it. Same thing with native hybrid cloud and our Pivotal Cloud Foundry, Pivotal ready system, you know, they'll get their support from PCF, from Pivotal, but they'll build it on HCI. And we're also introducing a Pivotal ready system based on PKS. And I think PKS is interesting, simply because if you look at the Kubernetes environment and the work that's been done with Kubo, it's really a platform that's more likely where people are going to want to build, right? If you look at those people that are doing it, they want more control over, you know, their build process and their pipeline, and therefore they're more likely to build, and with the PKS system, the ready system based on Pivotal, Pivotal ready system, they can get that outcome. >> So at the end of the day it's all about changing the operating model, >> Kevin: Absolutely. >> And having a business impact. Peter, we were in our Palo Alto studio, and one of our clients was in, very prominent end user and market practitioner, saying if you can't change the operating model, you know, you might get a little bit of business benefit, but if you're a large company, you're never going to take a billion dollars of cost out. So my question is, what are you guys seeing, are you being able to affect the operating model, and can you share any of your favorite examples or even generic sort of proof points? >> Sure, absolutely. We had one customer, CICC, they're a large HR outsourcer in China, and by implementing Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, they were able to accelerate the time it took to get new application services by 60%. This is simply a means of taking IT out of the middle and really being able to accelerate delivery of-- >> Peter: We're taking certain tasks-- >> Exactly. >> Peter: That IT performs. It's not necessarily taking IT out, it's taking those low-value tasks out, right? >> Kevin: Absolutely. You know, self-service portal pieces, exactly, so-- >> Dave: And then maybe re-deploying those resources to higher-value activities. >> Kevin: Absolutely. Right. So those are the types of outcomes. We also see, if you look at Pivotal and some of the capabilities they have, if you look at sort of traditional IT infrastructure we see many customers moving to, you know, daily, weekly releases, as opposed to, if you think of a traditional model, it would be a much longer process, so that's the type of outcome we see as well. >> Dave: Well, one of the things you've been saying for years, I think Benioff stole it from you, is there's going to be way more SAAS companies coming out of non-tech companies than tech companies to your point, everybody's now a software company, and they're releasing code on a constant basis, but they're not technology companies, so they need help, right? >> He might not have stolen it from me, but it's a nice validation point. And I think we said it before he did. >> Just kidding, Marc. Alright, Kevin, hey thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. We really appreciate having you. >> Appreciate it. Thanks. >> Alright, keep right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Las Vegas Mandalay Bay. Day three, VMworld 2017. We'll be right back. >> Thank you.

(click and snap) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman with theCUBE, and we're here at the Winslow Technology Group Dell EMC User Group here in Boston in the shadows of Fenway Park. Happy to have with me Mike Franco, who's the principal solutions architect with Virtustream. Mike, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu. Thanks for having me, and this is a terrific event. It really is. I mean to be here with one of our first channel partners, and by that I mean Winslow Group has been part of Dell for many, many years. They now sell the whole Dell EMC platform with the acquisition last year. And Virtusteam, we opened up a channel partnership just a few months ago, and they were one of the first to join. And here I am in front of hundreds of clients. This is a great opportunity. >> All right, that's great. So we've talked to Scott Winslow, his organization, some of the partners. So, I understand a lot about the Dell relationship. How WTG has been kind of expanding into cloud. Virtustream. Tell us why there's a channel partner now. What that means, and what you look to for somebody like Winslow Group. >> Well, Winslow Group opens up a lot of clients for us, okay? And we need to sell through those partners. Most of these clients are running operations, maybe in the small midsize business, which are really perfect candidates for what we do. Virtustream provides a managed cloud. So unlike the Amazons, the Googles, and the Azures which are great solutions, we're finding clients and saying, "Hey, that was good." But as we start moving to these mission critical applications. The applications that are running my business. We need a managed service. We need performance. We need IO type of critical workloads to be run in a more secure and performance- laden type of cloud. >> Yeah, Jeremy Burton gave the opening remarks. The CMO of Dell. The Dell family really has a large portfolio. I look at kind of the hybrid and multi-cloud world these days, and from a Dell standpoint, you know, VMware has a number of solutions, including VMware on AWS. Dell was working with Microsoft on the Azure (mumbles) solutions. How does Virtustream fit into the overall portfolio? How do you help position, you know, where that fits, okay? Get the mind share and (stutters) the users? >> Great question. I mean, back in May, we announced a connection, okay? So our Cloud Connect, which is vRealized into our stream based clouds. Extreme is our cloud management platform, and a technology that we use to run our off prem clouds. So clients now have the capability through vRealize automation to recognize our cloud into revision, and to modify and manage their workloads through that. We also announced in May, a partnership with our sister company Pivotal. Okay, on their Cloud Foundry. So we now have in Virtustream Enterprise Cloud, the capability to run Cloud Foundry in a managed fashion. Okay, again, Cloud Foundry is a technology that a lot of developers will be using to build applications, but it also runs those applications. And now that those applications are becoming stateful and a critical part of their business, they're looking to somebody to manage that. And now we have the capability. And then we talk about the rest of the EMC portfolio, where Native Hybrid Cloud is a package solution that's built on vRacks or vRails, right? Dell's converged black forms with the Native Hybrid Cloud or Pivotal Cloud Foundry, lay it right on top of it with the tools to be able to manage it. That's sold directly to a client, and we have the capability as Virtustream to manage those. So now the client can have these on-client premise solutions, as well as being able to tether back to our enterprise cloud. Our Virtustream Enterprise Cloud. >> Yep. Mike, we saw in the storage industry, there's lots of different solutions, because there's lots of different needs. I find there is no typical cloud strategy when it comes to most companies. But when you're talking to users, whether it be at this event or you know, out talking to customers, you know, why are they coming to Virtustream? What are the big questions they're asking you? What are the challenges that they see, and how do you help them? >> So, I see most of the time they come to us is because at these types of events, they are clients that are delighted with Dell EMC technologies, right? Dell EMC is a leader in almost every product that they sell, okay? And not only that, but the customer satisfaction, the client care service that Dell EMC provides is second to none. We're an extension of that, okay? We have the ability to manage either on prem, or of prem, and that gray area in between in helping them enable to get to the cloud. So, it really has opened up a lot of doors for Virtustream, and yes the solutions are endless. But we had the capability to manage that for them on their prem, and we've been very successful doing it. >> Great. Mike, we know SAP was one of those solutions that really Virtustream made its name on. Well, I know you continued to work on that. Can you give us, you mentioned Cloud Foundry. What are some of the applications? What are some of the big use cases that your customers are having success with? >> So in June we announced the Virtustream Healthcare Cloud. Okay, so what is that? That's our enterprise cloud, now tailored specifically for the healthcare compliance. So it's HIPAA compliant. And also, we're managing some of the more critical applications. The healthcare environment is not cloud native, okay? It's still based on the platform too, right? They virtualized the client server, the three-tiered architecture database, web and app server type of environments that the systems have reckoned, okay? We're expanding into electronic medical records, EMRs, critical client patient care, some analytics for medication. So we're moving into those other areas that's complimenting the SAP work that we're doing. >> Okay, well Mike, appreciate you giving us the updates on Virtustream. Thanks so much for joining us here at the Winslow Technology Group Dell EMC User Conference. (click and snap)