(upbeat music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here in Palo Alto, California at the CUBE studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. For a special CUBE conversation, a preview of the upcoming KubeCon, Cloud Native Con in San Diego. Where theCUBE will be there, as well as a bunch of other folks. The New Stack will be there, a lot of other media producers, as well as the big conference. KubeCon, in it's fourth or fifth year, depending on which year you count. Its a super exciting conference, this is where the Kubernetes and the Cloud Native communities come together to set the agenda to talk about all the great things that are going on in the industry and how it's changing tech for good. We're here with Vicki Cheung, who is the Co-Chair and also Software Engineer Manager at Lyft. Vicki great to see you, thanks for coming in. >> Thanks for having me. >> I'm so proud of KubeCon and the community because when we were there, in the early days, when it was kind of forming and created. There was a big vision that it would play a critical role. A lot of people haven't really seen how big it's become. And it's really become so important that the big companies are now moving towards Open Source, the CNC has been very successful. Both on getting vendors in and end user projects. You're setting the agenda. You're setting the table for this year's KubeCon. >> Yeah. >> Tell us what's going on. >> Yeah, I think we're seeing the maturity of the community coming together. It's sort of continuing on this trend where, as you said, the adoption is growing exponentially. I think, that two years ago if you surveyed the room and asked people, "who is using Kubernetes and Docker in production, you'd maybe get, like, a hand. I think you're seeing this thing where, this trend, where this year, I think, if you surveyed the room, it would be like maybe half the room were raising their hands. >> And the acceleration is interesting. You're seeing in, I mean, huge acceleration of the adoption of Kubernetes and other projects. And I think what's interesting to me, and I think commentary that we've been reporting on is that Kubernetes can be that unifying point. And you're seeing this, de facto standard emerging and a lot of people talking about that de facto. And that has accelerated the Production Use Cases. So, the End User Projects are increasing. Is that going to be a focus or main focus of this year's KubeCon? >> Oh yeah, definitely. I think we're seeing, maybe even last year, we've had a lot of end user talks from, you know, early adopters start ups, like tech giants. But this year we're seeing a lot more enterprise use cases. And that's driving a lot of content as well. So, I think when it comes enterprise use cases, we're seeing a lot of talks around security and governance. We're seeing a lot of developer productivity talks, and we're also seeing a lot more focus on how to scale operations. >> So, take me through the focus this year. Let's get this out on the table, because this is a big event. What can people expect this year, when you guys sat in the room, with the teams, and said, "Okay, here's going to be the Con and agenda, "we have a form of that's not broken, let's not fix, what's not broken, so the format's good." What was the focus, what was this year's focus. What's going to be the focus of this year's KubeCon? >> Yeah, I think Bryan and I, when we sit together, we have all the tracks that we've been using, for the last couple of years. And generally we, sort of stick to them, because they're pretty good. But the way we, I think the interesting thing is, we see over the years how the distribution across the tracks have changed. So, for example, I think this year, operations is a super big track, and it's very competitive to get into. And that's because we're seeing a lot more adoption at scale, and different Use cases, different types of companies and production. So, I think that track have been a main focus. And also, I think customizing Kubernetes is another one, as people's use cases got more sophisticated. And in the serve use case track, I think we see a lot more enterprise, like even banks adopting Kubernetes. >> So, essentially the same game as before, but weighting them differently based on adoption? >> Exactly, I think it's a shift, like earlier it would be maybe more like earlier adopter and serve experimental use cases, and now it's like, people are actually going into production now. So, the shift has been into like, how do we get this running reliably, at scale. So, that's what we're seeing. >> In terms of the industry, if you look back, and again you guys went public at Lyft, and you guys are growing, and you guys have a great open source product with Envoy, I'm sure you guys are going to do the Day Zero thing again this year, last year was a big success. Is there any projects that you see coming out of the woodwork that are going to evolve up? And what can people expect in terms of project growth or emerging projects. Is there any indication, from your standpoint? What's going to come out of the community? >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of projects that are growing, like Helm continues to grow. I think one thing that I'm seeing, from this year's content is there's a lot of focus on, OPA. Like I said, the security is sort of a growing focus. And OPA is certainly one of the things I think people should expect at this year's conference. Another area that I'm personally very interested in, and I see, I'm happy to see it popping up more this year, is developer experience and developer productivity. As we're, even just personally witnessing at Lyft, adopting Cloud Native Architecture, microservices and Kubernetes, comes with a lot of benefits, but also a lot of new challenges into how people should develop in this ecosystem. So, there are projects like Telepresence and Tilt that are coming up more. And there's a few talks around that, in application and development as well. >> How about the developer's side? What's the general sentiment in the community these days? If you had to kind of, put a parameter out there, what's the general vibe in the community, from a developer's stand point around Cloud Native and Kubernetes? >> I think there's, I think it depends on who you ask. Generally, you know, people are very very excited to be sort of moving in this direction. And I think it allows people to be a lot more flexible in how they develop their applications. But I also think that there's a lot of open questions, that we still have to answer. And this is where, I guess some of these new projects come into help fill the gap. >> Well first of all, you guys have, always have a great conference, theCUBE will be there, as well media producer will be a lot on digital. So, folks not going to the event, they should go and see the face-to-face. I want to get the take on some of the submissions. You guys have an interesting dynamic and CNCF and KubeCon and Cloud Native Con, you have a ton of end user projects, A lot of end user focus, obviously it's an end user focused show. But you also have a lot of vendors, suppliers that are also in the community. So, you have an interesting balance going on. Talk about some of the numbers in terms of submissions, because I know, everyone's got submissions, not everyone gets accepted, like the operations you mentioned is a hot track. What's some of the numbers? Can you share any, kind of statistics around number of submissions versus acceptance? >> Yeah, I think typically CNCF will publish some of the numbers, in a blog post. So, I don't know all the numbers off the top of my head. But for example, in operations, I think the acceptance rate was maybe less than 10%. I think, it wasn't that competitive, maybe two years ago, but certainly as everyone moves to deploying Kubernetes on their own, that's sort of a hot topic. >> What's the relationship in the community, with the big vendors? Obviously you see, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, are big players in there, and they're investing heavily in Kubernetes. And VMware, as well, is also investing. Is that good, bad, is it just balancing? What's the communities view on the participation of the big guys? >> Yeah, I think it's actually been really great to the community and I personally would not have expected Microsoft, ADBS to be as active in the community as they are now, if you asked me five years ago. So, I think it's this interesting thing that Kubernetes and CNCF hasn't managed to do, is instead of having the tech giants having to suck out the energy and the technology into their private ecosystem. It's been the other way around. Where Microsoft and ADBS and Google have been contributing a lot of their integrations and other tooling and projects that they've built on top of the projects in CNCF. And just enriching the community. >> So, you're saying that they've been pushing more towards open source, not pulling out of it? >> Yeah. I think that's, obviously I'm super happy to see that. But I think that was not obvious at all from the beginning. >> Yeah, it's super exciting, you know we've been tracking the business model's evolution. And open source is more powerful than ever before now. And it's growing so fast and changing. Let's talk about the Enterprises now, because I think you're seeing adoption on the classic IT Enterprise moving in. We've interviewed many CSO's, CIO's and practitioners, they all have the same kind of reaction, "Oh my God, this is so good for our business, "Kubernetes what Containers are doing, "will allow us to manage the life cycle of our applications. "The same time bringing Cloud Native, "without a lot of disruption." What's your reaction to that, are you guys seeing that same dynamic? And if so, what is some of the use cases of Enterprises, within KubeCon? >> Yeah, I think one thing is, the earlier pitch is the, of course allows you to have that flexibility to move from your data center to Hybrid Cloud, and maybe to different cloud vendors. So, I think that's super appealing. But another thing that we're seeing this year is, as people adopted at scale they're also seeing a lot of cost savings from adopting Kubernetes, just because it allows them to be a lot more flexible in how they deploy things. I think that, in general as you move to serve a community standard, an Open Source Platform, it does help your developers a lot, because now they don't need to build their own in-house thing, which is, for example, what Lyft had before Kubernetes. So, I think it's generally a productivity win. >> So, on Envoy real quick, while I got you here. Lyft has been involved in donating that project and driving it last year, one of the most notable news, at least from out observation was, that the Envoy did that event the day before. And it was really popular. >> Yeah >> Is it going to happen again? What's some of the views on that? >> Yeah, so EnvoyCon is happening again this year, right before Kubernetes. I think it's even more popular than last year. So, there's going to be a lot of talks around, running Envoy at scale, and also on top of Kubernetes. As people sort of integrate the two technologies more. >> Okay, so I got to ask you the personal observations, you can take your Co-Chair hat off and put your KubeCon community hat on. What dark horses are out there, that you think may surprise people this year? What do you think might happen? Because there is always something that goes on, that's just a surprise, a dark horse, if you will, comes out of the woodwork, what do you think might happen? >> Well, I think there's of course going to be a few new Open Source projects that are launched there. And I also think there will be a lot of, maybe more than usual, interesting people that people can meet at the conference. >> I heard there's a rumor that the original gangsters, or the OG's or the original members, the seven original members are going to be there. >> Yeah, I don't-- >> Confirm or deny? >> I don't know if I can confirm or deny, but-- >> Okay, I think that's a yes, possibly. We'll be tracking that, okay, final question for you. What do you think will be the most important story for people to pay attention to this year? What do you think is going to be, evolving out on the stage? Out on the tracks, out on digital? What do you expect to see this year? What is some of the top stories and top notable points that you think is going to happen this year? >> Yeah, I think one thing that maybe, for me, and for a lot of people is this message that Kubernetes is ready. I think it's been sort of building up in this hype for the last few years. And we've seen adoption, but I think this is truly the year that I see a lot of Enterprise end user cases and I can really say that Kubernetes is ready. >> So the new criteria is proof points? Scale, operationally seeing some operations, real proof points, customer adoption, enterprise and hyperscalers? >> Yeah. >> All right, Vicki thanks for coming in and sharing this preview on KubeCon, Cloud Native Con. It's theCUBE covering the KubeCon, Cloud Native Con preview with Vicki Co-Chair, who set the agenda with her fellow Co-Chair Bryan Liles, as well. Great to have her on and share upcoming conversation around KubeCon. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three here, theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018 in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, with Stu Miniman, and Justin Warren here to break down the action. Justin Warren, as you know, is Guest Analyst for us at many events, Chief Analyst at PivotNine, coming all back over here again, to break it down. So we're going to dissect what's going on here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon. This is, some say, me, the last stand to stop Amazon. Justin, good to see you. >> Good to see you as well, man. Stu, my first question is, as the show winds down, day three, a lot of people have left, all the big execs are gone, it's kind of last day, people coming together, party was last night, so we kind of see all the action, we kind of fished this pond dry, in theCUBE here, the last couple of days. The themes are starting to emerge. What are you seeing, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, first of all, John, 8,000 people, this is, you know, geeks that are really excited, and I mean that in the best of ways, of course. There's actually, there were people here before the show started, doing lightning talks and full day sessions. Tomorrow, there's an operative session that another 250 or 300 people will be doing Friday, so, you know, and people want to just suck the marrow out of the bone that is everything going on here, just get every ounce of knowledge here, and they are deep into this session, so, this is a great community. The question I want to ask you guys is you were at Amazon re:Invent two weeks ago. We've watched that show. I want the compare and contrast of this ecosystem and show, not just compare it to like, say, open stack, which we've been teasing apart all week, and I think there are some things we need to worry about, but a lot of good differences. But compare against the big one in the room, which is Amazon, and a big difference is Amazon is here, and they have a seat at the table, because they have to, and customers will force them there, but you know, should this worry Amazon, and how does this ecosystem compare with the Amazon ecosystem. The big thing for me is, I understand how people make money in the ecosystem of Amazon. I'm still trying to figure that out here. >> Yeah, eh, it is a different ecosystem. It does have a bit of a vibe of it could be the new re:Invent. We've had conversations over the last couple of days about-- >> Or is this the independent cloud, >> Exactly. >> You know, open ecosystem. >> It is the independent show that we've been waiting for, that we've wanted since COMDEX and Interop kind of went away, and it's all been vendor shows, and now we have an independent show where all the vendors can come and have kind of a neutral meeting place, and we can all gather together and have some common ground, which is like, that's what Kubernetes is. I've been saying over the last couple of days, Kubernetes is like the ethernet of cloud, so it's something which is an agreed standard and we can all collaborate on, and then, you never bet against ethernet. So know you can build all these other things on top of that platform, yeah. >> Just a quick note on that, right, that's Interop, and networking was at the core of that. It was basically everybody, oh, it's the chance of if we give true interoperability, maybe we can do multi-vendor and it won't all be Cisco, who dominated that market. Amazon's the same. >> Stu, this is to me, ethernet's a great example. I say TCPIP as well. Both are enabling technologies that are standardized, or actually started as de facto standards. They weren't necessarily bona fide standards. They emerged when people rallied around them. Those de facto standards, emerge and become a catalyst point for people to build on top of and around. Remember, there's still a lower level below the stack on ethernet. So you had, you know, physical data link layer in the OSI model, the grandfather of all stacks. That really changed, I think, 20 years of growth and innovation. I think Kubernetes is, exactly right, Justin, it's exactly your point. I see that as well, that it's not so much Kubernetes is going to be the be all end all. It's what it enables, and I think the innovations on top of Kubernetes, and underneath Kubernetes, take the holy trinity, I've been saying this on theCUBE now for the past year, the holy trinity of infrastructure and IT is storage compute networking, and those things are now being repurposed in a way that is highly scalable, dynamic, and resourceful for a lot of things. AI is a great example, everyone talks about AI, but storage policy, the knobs in Kubernetes can manage, and Google saying the guys of Kubernetes. That's one of the most underutilized aspects of Kubernetes, is the networking guys managing the knobs from below, and then app guys with servers messing maybe on the top. This is just an absolute growth engine, and the comparison to Amazon is similar, because Andy Jassy talks about builders, the right tool for the job. This is essentially the same mantra. I mean, this is tools, platforms. >> It's very similar, but with one very important difference, and around the money side of things. You don't have this massive behemoth which is going to come in, and one year you're on the keynote, and the next year we just announced a product, which completely killed your business. It's open source. That's not really going to happen. So you've got that common core of things, where there's no real competitive advantage on this stuff. So that's, you know, Linux, where's the competitive advantage on a kernel? There isn't one. So open source makes great sense for that kind of core of things that you then build upon, and then all the money is in all the innovation, all the value add that goes on top of that, and that makes a huge amount of sense to have an open source show for that. >> And I think, Stu, one of the things that we always talk about, networking in cloud, I think the concept of cloud is going to be old hat. You heard it here first on theCUBE. Because cloud is Amazon, cloud is a set of resources. When we start thinking about IoT at the edge, when you talk about moving compute to the edge, you're going to start to see mesh networks, peer to peer, and add a new kind of platform configurations that isn't necessarily cloud. It's a new thing. It's a platform, open platform, and there's going to be some incentives that are going to be designed for startups, that's economically beneficial to the new kinds of things, versus the economic incentives that Amazon might not have, to do things. So I think we're going to see emergence of new stuff. I would still say that cloud is a state of mind, it's not a location. And we here, it's CloudNativeCon. It's not just KubeCon. It's about doing things in a cloud native way, and that, like you say, it doesn't matter where it is or how it communicates together, but it's the way you operate it, it's the way it actually works in practice. It's not so much of, oh, we're going to build it here and we're going to put it in that cloud, or that cloud, or that cloud. >> And I think we've had some real clarity as to what that future of multi cloud looks like, 'cause it's not one massive cloud everywhere, it's not, oh, my applications spanning all over the place. It's we're working to solve that really tough problem of distributed architectures, and giving us ways that I shouldn't have to think about where I am spinning that up, or if I need to change vendor, not necessarily portability, you still do have some lock in, because Kubernetes is not the full stack, it's a piece of the overall platform, and while there's 75 different versions here that are all compliant, I should be able to move between them, but the devil's in the details, and there's lots of stuff that goes on top. >> Let's talk about multi cloud for a second. 'Cause you mentioned COMDEX, you talked about ethernet. At that time, during those big revolutions, the word multi-vendor was a big buzz word. Multi-vendor was like the basis of COMDEX. We all got to play together. Multi-vendor meant choice. Today, multi cloud is just a modern version of multi-vendor. >> Exactly, it's multi-vendor, and that's what enterprises want. Enterprises are a bit wary now. We hear lots of conversation about lock in, and that comes up a lot, and it's a real thing. Enterprises are concerned, they don't want to bet on one company, and then find out that actually, it's technology, it changes, things need to be moved around. We don't want to wake up in five, six years, and then suddenly find, oh my god, I can't change anything because I'm locked into this one vendor. >> So, Justin, they say they want multi-vendor. When it came to networking, I spent years working on interoperability, and plug tests, and all these things, and at the end of the day, it was way better to get my standards plus with a single vendor than it was to try to loop them together, and then, oh, when I changed something, so hopefully the difference here is actually, we have loosely coupled services, we have APIs, so can we actually do multi-vendor, multi-cloud that doesn't stress out my team, and have, every time I want to make a change, or they make a change, it moves. The new cloud world should be, things change, you know, it changes upstream, and downstream, I get to use them. So, once again, we talk about the shiny nirvana of, oh, you know, it's serverless, and the old trinity of computer storage. I don't even need to worry about that, 'cause it'll just work, but wait, if something goes wrong, I've been talking to a bunch of vendors here, that actually, how do I get observability, and manageability, to be able to drill down, because things could still go wrong. >> Well, you heard Bloomberg, we had an end user come on, it's a very interesting point, and Dan Khan, from the executive director, well, Bloomberg's kind of a different case, but look at what Bloomberg does. The guy said to us, "I actually don't want to buy "these products and services. "I just want to pay them money "to be available to support me "when I need support." 'Cause Bloomberg has fully integrated all their support internally. I think that's a trend that we're going to see in the enterprise, where CIOs start building teams, real software chops. It might not be as big as Bloomberg, but the notion of, we're going to run our own stuff. We'll use management services where appropriate, but we're going to have a core software build strategy, and I can't wait. An SLA of four hour response time. I need like, minutes. >> And that's how, I think, where we don't have the answers yet. There are still a lot of questions that enterprises are trying to work out about how do I actually do that. So you mentioned Bloomberg, and I interviewed them a few months ago, wrote something in Forbes about them. They are a special case in that they have chosen that we're going to invest in this technology so that we have people on staff, in our company, who understand Kubernetes. Now, that's not a choice that every enterprise is going to make, but they decided that actually, this technology, this software is so important to our business, to where we get all the value for our business that we need to invest in that technology. And I think a lot of enterprises are realizing that, actually, outsourcing everything to one vendor, and then giving all of your innovation engine to someone else, and they're realizing that was a mistake. Now, they're trying to figure out, okay, what do we bring in house, what do we do ourselves, what do we get vendors to do, which technologies do we use for what particular value creation, and that complexity, that decision making process, that's what we haven't quite worked out yet, and that's where I think there's a lot of value in the ecosystem, with service providers who can provide advice on here is how you should do it, based on what you need to do. >> That's a great point. Stu, I want you to comment on that. Let's refine this for a second, 'cause the people who actually spend the money, or the people re-imagining IT infrastructure, IT applications. The CIO, I've interviewed the VP of Advanced Technology at Proctor and Gamble, and he told me, when he came in, he came from Coca Cola, he's been an old IT guy, he says, look, we outsourced everything to the point where we're anemic. We got a couple of storage guys, they're pushing buttons, they're jumping on, calling the vendors, they outsource everything. He says they had no ability to create a competitive advantage for the business, and what they moved quickly to was to bring talent in to be builders, to be in house. So now you have that trend happening in the modern CIO, CXO kind of roles. Now you have to say, okay, I got teams here. How do I get the investments deployed, how do I go to this ecosystem here with all these tools, all these capabilities, how do I invest, how do I build out. >> Look, I think Kelsey Hightower had a great point when we interviewed him this week. It is a huge opportunity for managed services, because like we talked about, the Amazon, or even the ecosystem, how do I keep up with all of this, and the answer is, you don't. You need to be able to have people, whether it's system integrators, or partners that are going to help that. You know, look, Amazon gets criticized for not being deeper in open source. Well, they use a lot of open source and they deliver those services, and they make it easy. Frictionless is something we talked about for many years as being the thing. The enterprise wants to be able to spend money and just go do it, because they don't have a team to pitch these. Even somebody like Bloomberg, or some of these really big companies I love, talking, you've got Apple, and Nordstrom, and some really interesting, oh, by the way, and they're all hiring. Whether or not they're actually using Kubernetes, they cannot confirm or deny, but you know, we know how that goes. >> Hold on, first, let's unpack the end user piece here, okay? Amazon is pushing 5,000 reference-able customers. Okay, it's not about the Amazon question. End users here, how many reference-able customers are here? What are they actually, Uber's here, they're hiring. They might have some Kubernetes stuff in the background. Sure, they probably do. But actually, what does the end user adoption really look like? I mean... >> It's still early, but again, a difference between this show and Amazon re:Invent. How many end customers have a booth at re:Invent? Compared to here, where we have people, end customers who are here mostly to try to hire talent. They have booths. >> Kudos to the CNCF. They've got 80 end users participating. There are a lot of users here. This is not the vendor fest that we see at some shows when they get big. I hear they're not seeking the vendors. The vendors that I talked to were happy because they are the users here, and they're excited. Before we go, John, there's a couple kinks in the armors and things we need to worry about. The two, if I look at service meshes, and I look at serverless as a huge threat. One of the things I wanted to look at coming in was I'd heard a lot of talk about Knative, and I think Knative is great, but it is not, you know, Lambda is the defacto standard, just like S3 was before. Lambda is this, and Knative has absolutely nothing to do with Lambda and does not connect with it. It is the difference between serverless and functions, and so, all the AWS functions and all the Azure functions have nothing to do with Knative. For the people that looked at OpenWhisk and all these other options, Knative seems a good way to pull, they've done a re-spin of what's happening there, and it's moving things down the line. Once again, as Kelsey said, if we look at serverless as a spectrum, which many of the hardcore serverless people will debate and argue, and be like, that's not real, serverless, well, just like we said, there is only one real cloud, and it was Amazon. We know that's not the case. It will be a spectrum, we want to meet customers where they are. So, Knative, good news, but the elephant in the room is that AWS and Azure are where all of the serverless really happens, and therefore, there is a big air gap between them. Justin, service mesh is something I know you've been looking at. Give it to us the good, bad, and the ugly. >> Service mesh is really, really early. So, we're at that part where there's a diversity of innovation going on. There's about 12, or at least 12 different companies here at the show, who are all doing something with service mesh. They're all trying to sell you a different solution. This is what happens with technology. A new technology gets created, and we have this flurry of all these startups, who are all trying different things. And this is the destructive force of capitalism. Not all of them are going to succeed, but we have to have them all out there in the market, because at the moment, it's too early to figure out, okay, well, it's definitely going to be that one. If we knew that one, then I'd be putting all of my money behind that one company today. >> Last year, Justin, all the talk was about SDO. I've heard a lot of talk about SDO, but it hasn't all been good. >> No, that's the thing. So we've had a year now, and last year was definitely, hey, SDO is like, the service mesh. Like, not so much. Envoy seems to be the common ground that people are actively using. That's what most people are building on top of. So it looks like Envoy's going to be that underlayer of everything else. But in terms of how you actually use service mesh, it's still very early, and people are trying to figure out how to do I use this quite complex technology in practice? And as people use it more, as we get more adoption, then we'll start to see that one or two of the methods and the approaches will win out over all of the others, and that's where we can expect to see, well, I have an anointed winner. That will then win out, because it's useful, because it's functional, because end users want to do it that way. >> And Envoy, by the way, had traction. They had a sold out EnvoyCon. On the first day, 350 people, Lyft is driving that, and they're just heads down, solving problems. I think that seems to be the formula for some of the successful products, where you take away all the window dressing and the hype. It comes down to who's solving what problems. >> And that's the thing with open source. You can't just throw a whole bunch of marketing dollars at it to make it succeed. If end users don't like the code, and they don't use it, then it won't work. >> John, I want you to give us the word on the open source business model. We watched in the last year, Red Hat bought CoreOS for 250 million, then they were acquired by IBM for 34 billion, pending final, and all that stuff and everything, and then, reading through the VMware, SCC filing $550 million for Heptio. You know, big, big dollars, so, is open source just getting a lot of customers, and they get acquired by the big guys? What's the take? >> I think it's interesting. First of all, Red Hat might not like what I'm about to say, but I'll just say it. I think there was a steal with CoreOS. If you look at what Heptio got for valuation, CoreOS was an absolute steal. The team was phenomenal, they were doing some amazing work. At that time of the acquisition, the debate of how to make money dominated versus just getting behind the technology, and I think CoreOS was a fantastic team, and they had the right tracking. You can see what's happening now with now part of the Red Hat. So, Red Hat got a massive lift on that, so I think, kudos to Red Hat for taking that up the table at that time. Great acquisition, I think that helped them propel, and now show that to IBM that there's real value there. Now, I think open source as a business model is interesting because it's changing, right? You now have a new generation of builders and developers coming in. Open source has to evolve, and I think the CNCF I think is a cutting edge experiment or Petri dish of how to stay true to open source principles, and still nurture and enable a downstream impact for the commercialization. I think it's an opportunity, but it's also one of their biggest challenges, because if this is COMDEX, COMDEX is an open source. It's hawking wares, right? So it's a different business model. So, this is going to be a very interesting test in the industry to see how the current open source momentum, which is looking really strong right now, how that can interplay with commercialization, because certainly, the money's there, the value's there, and if we can get these value spots identified, the white spaces for startups, and let the big guys also play as well, it's going to be a very interesting landscape, it's certainly dynamic. I don't have the answers, but my gut's telling me that a whole new level of sets of services and platforms are going to be composed around these services, and I think it's all going to be driven by open source, that's clear. How it shapes out, valuations and the talent buys, the momentum, market buy, we'll be watching, I don't know. >> Yeah, it's exciting times. We're here at the beginnings of what I hope is going to be this massive new ecosystem, and we get to watch it grow, we get to watch it change. It's a great place to be. >> All I can say, Stu, is I wish I was 25 years old again, right now, because for young entrepreneurs, and young tech folks, this is probably one of the most exciting times, because you have real computer science, and dormant computer science, now re-energized with cloud computing scale. It's just like-- >> John, they don't appreciate what they had, you know. They don't know what it was like to have a computer that wasn't actually connected to things, let alone what we had. >> I used to build my own graphics libraries, I used to walk to school in bare feet in the snow. It's so hard. It's so easy now. >> Creating ones and zeroes-- >> Where's my token ring? >> Creating ones and zeroes by banging rocks together. >> It's so easy now. You guys got it made. You have no idea. Great stuff, Stu, this is great analysis, and I think, again, KubeCon is the beginning, with Cloud Native, this is just a small signal, I think. I think there's going to be a COMDEX moment soon, unless this thing just blows up, which I don't think is going to happen. >> I mean, look, last thing, John, I want to big thank to the Linux Foundation, CNCF, for working with us. We've been neighbors in the early days, great partnership, this community. They've got a great media section. All of friends over here, that are creating a lot of con, working really hard. The amount of work that goes through, and as we had the people from CNCF talking. They've got a core team, but it's people that volunteer, and we were a community too, and all our sponsors, John. >> Yeah, thanks to the community, and again, one more final point is that, this market, Justin, as you know, we all cover it, is in a learning mode. There's a lot of education oriented stuff that people are interested in. You've got Alex Williams over at New Stack, DevOps.com, TFiR over there, everyone's up in media out there. There is a thirst for content, there's a thirst for community learning. The sessions are packed. I mean, the hallways are interesting. You see people huddling, and I overhear the conversations. They're not talking about what party to go to, they're talking about how to implement a Kubernetes cluster, so this, really people working on and off the court here, so to speak. So, it's been great coverage. So, day three, breaking it down. I'm John Furrier, Justin Warren, Stu Miniman, back with more coverage, day three, after the short break. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for SiliconANGLE Media's, theCUBE's exclusive coverage for three days for HPE Discover 2017. We're on day three, down to the wire here. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE with my co-host Dave Vellante, my partner in crime with Wikibon. Our next guest, Ric Lewis. Software Defined Cloud Senior Vice President, President and GM of HPE, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> And Kate Swanborg, Senior Vice-President Tech Communications and Strategic Alliances, DreamWorks Animation. Welcome back as well. >> Thank you. >> John: Great to have you guys back. >> It's good to be here. >> So obviously DreamWorks, you guys are a big customer, Ric you are now leading up the team for Software Defined infrastructure, as we call it programmable infrastructure, a lot of great things. >> Ric: Yeah. >> Synergy we talked heavily about last year. >> Ric: Yeah. >> I kind of was geeking out with you on that in terms of all that programming ability and automation. Meg story this week was simplifying hybrid IT, which is the key part of where Software's coming in. >> That's exactly right. >> And so we got DreamWorks here, what's your vision in how that's going to happen? How do you take that simple message and put it into practice? >> Yeah so, we're completely about making hybrid IT simple, and we have three primary vectors that we're driving in order to make that happen. The first is our hyperconverged appliances that we deliver, and the second is HPE Synergy, our composable, and the third is our hybrid IT management stacked software that we have. And we've got momentum across all of those. In Hyper Converged, you guys know we acquired SimpliVity, it closed in February. Got a lot of customers on that. We had Red Bull on-stage here at Discover talking about their use case of that in their racing. It was a packed house, people completely interested in all the things we're doing in hybrid IT. That's SimpliVity. Synergy, we now have almost 400 customers that have adopted Synergy. We started shipping in volume in December, and DreamWorks Animation is one of those customers, and real excited for you to hear a little bit about how they're using it, but we had, I think we had around 10 customers from Synergy across all kinds of verticals and use cases, including service providers that were on-stage here. And the final thing is our hybrid IT management stack, a program that we introduced here at Discover called Project New Stack. So, that's what's going on in Software Defined & Cloud, it's a lot right now. >> And we had a SimpliVity customer on by the way, they were really glowing. >> Yeah. >> Great to see that happen. >> That was a great story. >> Great story, Kate, so DreamWorks, you guys have a business, you've got to put a product out there and so you got to look at technology, make it work for you, and sometimes you got to get in the weeds, there's pieces and pieces, at the end of the day you got a product to deliver. How are you guys taking some of the things that are coming out at HPE and putting them into action? What are some of the things you're doing? >> Well, I think one of the things that is often surprising to people is just how much technology we consume to make a CG feature animated film. These films take 80 million compute hours to render the images, petabytes of storage and we're typically working on five or six active films in production because they take us four or five years to make. And so we want to be able to have the capability of releasing two or three films a year, we must have simultaneous production. But of course, not all of the productions are exactly the same, and we've also got other media opportunities, whether it's television or theme park. And so, what's critical to us is that we're actually able to provision the right amount of digital resource to the right project quickly and easily so that as those creative inspirations are growing and burgeoning at the studio, we've got the resource behind it in an effortless fashion. >> And how are you making that happen with the Synergy for example, because last year we were looking at thinking well this has got a lot of potential. I mean you can do it through the orchestration, making the management work kind of takes that, abstracts away a lot of the complexity. How are you guys dealing with that, I mean how have you put that into action? >> Well, we've been working within a hybrid environment for years now, so the idea of a hybrid environment isn't new to us. The key however, is that it's labor intensive. It's time-consuming. In order to get all of the right configurations of the networking and the storage, the compute to actually work in a realtime environment for our artists, that has taken us an enormous amount of effort over the years. What we're looking for in the Synergy deployment is to reduce those weeks down to days and those days down to hours. Once we're able to do that, our engineers can go off and focus on the niche technology solutions that actually matter to the artists. And that's where we want to get the business benefit. >> And with Synergy, compute, storage and fabric all managed under the same management domain. >> That's right. >> Single API that you can get access to all those resources, so it makes it super easy. It's the world's easiest way to do infrastructure as a service, it's built into the platform natively. >> That's right, and one of the things that's been so impressive to us is that we've been working with the Pointnext team to come in and actually configure this for our environment. Everybody uses a high-performance compute environment, but nobody's is exactly the same. The configure ability of this and the customability of this to our environment has been critical, and we've seen incredible benefits from that. >> So Ric, we kind of pushed you in theCUBE last year, cause you were saying "there's nothing like this in the marketplace". We said, okay define what's different. (John laughs) One of the things you touched on was the fluid pools of infrastructure. >> Yes. >> And Kate, what you just described is bringing technology to different digital teams. >> The dynamicism if you will. >> Absolutely. >> Being able to dynamically configure the thing, yes. >> So, let's test it. I mean, it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing, and how is this different than the infrastructure that you used to have? >> So, the reason that it's different is that we've got, we've got a simply said, a single infrastructure. We've got a compute farm, we've got storage, and historically what we had to do was actually partition off certain pieces of that for certain productions in order to protect their resources. The problem with that is that any given day, particularly in a creative environment, maybe they're using all of it, maybe they need more, maybe they need less. The challenge is is that historically if they needed less we can't reprovision that to another production in order to take advantage of their inspiration and their business motivations. Now we can. Now we have the opportunity to actually have the infrastructure be as dynamic as our creative environment, and that's saying a lot. >> And you can reconfigure those resources three clicks, five minutes, you literally can deprovision -- >> Kate: That's it. >> So the old way they're like bitchin and moanin, where's the servers? >> Absolutely. >> Right. >> And running around scrambling. >> They're on order. (all laugh) >> Six weeks. No this what we're talking about. >> Yeah. >> This is about speed, right? I mean this is -- >> It absolutely is. >> Alright, so I want to ask you a question about the HPE event. You mentioned you're here. So, a lot of people go to these events and they try and extract all the action. You've heard a lot of firsts, last year was Synergy first, big claim there. We're hearing some security stuff with servers here. >> Ric: Yeah. >> As a practitioner that comes to these shows, what's your strategy when you come to an event like HPE Discover, and obviously the schmooze is going on and getting wined and dined by HP, a big customer, but like when you go in there, what are you looking for, how do you connect the dots, what tea leaves do you read, what's your strategy? >> Well, I'll tell you, one of the things that really interests me about Discover is we've got a deep partnership with Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. We're talking to Hewlett-Packard Enterprise all the time. So we might actually think that we know what's going on. It's not true, there's so much innovation happening that when we bring our team to this show, we learn things that could really help our business. I'll give you a great example, so we learned this week about SimpliVity. Now, we had sort of heard about it, but we had not taken our time out of our schedules to really understand how that could help our VM environment. Our team's sitting in one of the panels this week, and he's texting other engineers on our team going "We have got to look at this next week at DreamWorks Animation". That's the kind of environment this is. I'll tell you something else, New Stack, we're going to lean heavy into New Stack because we believe that the innovation that we're seeing in that space is really, finally going to deliver on this promise of cloud that's been out there. >> What specifically about New Stack do you like? I want to just double down on that. Is it the rule of your own, is it the flexibility, what's the big thing there? >> Well, again this is one of those things where our team today is actually writing code and creating architectures that are sort of New Stack-like, but we're having to do it, we're having to invest our own time. It's trial and error, some of the things work some of the things don't, and that time is not being spent focused on our animation productions. The fact of the matter is, here's Hewlett-Packard actually doubling down and making sure that there is going to be a robust solution that works, that we can bring into our environment. >> We're in enterprises across the world every day. We're having these conversations, and most enterprises are doing kind of a roll-your-own cloud kind've thing. >> That's right. >> They're playing with OpenStack, they're playing with Kubernetes, they're playing with all these tools, they got a bunch of custom code, but we're really what we're trying to do with New Stack is take the best of what they're all trying to do, constrain that down, take our standard Software Defined infrastructure as the base, put a stack on top of that that they can count on to do a private cloud with bridge-to-hybrid capabilities, that's standard, that ships, that delivers and has updates, so that they're not messing around with it. Their developers don't want to spend time doing that, they just want to have a private cloud installation that has hybrid capabilites and have it installed. >> This is super relevant, this is super relevant, and we call you a tech athlete because you want to go out there and deliver value to your group and actually build products, right? >> That's right. >> The film. But Dave's team just put out the True Private Cloud Report which shows on PRAM, cloud-like environment, $260 billion dollar TAM, but the notable thing is that the labor costs were non-differentiated spend is going up by a $150 billion shifting in 10 years. >> Yeah. >> That's exactly the point here that you're talking about, is my guy's aren't working on the product that they need to be building. They're doing the R&D, so the OpenStack and all these things you're talking about, they're doing the R&D. Here, you're doing the R&D, delivering the product to the customer. >> Well and when we deliver that, we're still going to leverage all of those technologies. OpenStack is a key part of New Stack. Kubernetes is a key part of New Stack, but what we're doing is pulling that together so that they don't have to curate their own private cloud. >> Kate: That's right. >> We create that, deliver it in a way that's an appliance-like way, just like we deliver Hyper Converged today, in a controlled plane that manages that hybrid IT estate and gives them visibility into public cloud uses and private cloud, and it's really going to help them a lot, and it's going to help a whole lot of other customers cause we're making it standard and easily deployable. >> Well, we've seen this story unfold over this decade, where the corner office has said I don't want to spend money on that caching and provisioning. Okay, so go to the cloud. And then IT said, well, eh, we can't do that. (laughs) Okay, and so they get in with Hewlett-Packard Enterprise and others say what's the answer? Okay, but what you've described is this horizontal infrastructure capability that you can throw any workload at. >> That's right. >> And so my question is, what does it mean for the business? Does it mean you can do things faster, you have happier animators, you can do more movies, what does it mean? >> I think it means a couple of things. First of all, opportunity cost. In our business, a new opportunity for a creative endeavor, that comes up all the time, and the key is is that you want to be able to explore that as quickly as possible. Creative ideas work out sometimes, sometimes they don't, but they key is is that if takes you time and effort and money to just explore it, you've got an opportunity cost you don't want. >> Yeah, yep. >> Something like Synergy will allow us to provision resources to new ideas and new potentials quickly enough, easily enough, and at a cost-effective measure, so that we can actually determine which creative endeavors are going to work more quickly in our environment. That's a huge deal. >> So you were missing opportunities because of the infrastructure limitations, is that right? >> That's -- >> The mockups and everything have to get done. >> That's right! >> All the CG work. >> Again, when our filmmakers have a new idea for a new sequence, a new character, those types of characters, they take tremendous amounts of resources. I often talk about the dragon in Shrek. Back in 2001 we released Shrek, and it had this beautiful, huge pink dragon in it. And she was fantastic, but frankly she was so complex and so computationally heavy, we actually had to cut her out of parts of the film because we couldn't produce the shots she was in. Fast forward a few years, and we decide to make a movie called How to Train Your Dragon that's nothing but dragons. The key is is that we never want to be in a position again where we're tabling a great creative idea because we can't resource for it. And solutions like SimpliVity and Synergy and particularly where we're going with New Stack and the ability to actually harness the cloud without having to do all the work ourselves, that's going to bring that potential to reality. >> John: And then you know, your application in this opportunity cost is for your business. Other companies have apps, right? So their opportunity costs are very similar. >> That's right. >> John: This is the classic how shadow IT was born. >> Oh, yes! >> And people want to experiment, show proof of concept. Not a PowerPoint, an actual demo of real working product. It may not have the scale there, but you get to that point of where it's workable. >> Look, every business is facing some element of this right now, and I will tell you the other reason of the two reasons that I think that this is going to make a difference. It's future-proofing our environment. >> Ric: Yeah. >> The world is so dynamic right now, things are changing so quickly. Even in our environment with media and entertainment, the world of what people want to consume and how they want to consume it and the nature of how we're looking at innovation in both filmmaking techniques, as well as new media opportunities, the key in all of that is is that we have to be dynamic in order to be future-proofed. These types of solutions give us the confidence that we're actually putting the money in the right place. It's an investment in our future. >> Earlier you mentioned Pointnext services, and the narrative from Hewlett-Packard Enterprise is my inference is it's more cloud-like. Do different types of business models. Are you seeing that? I mean, is it more than just a new name, a new brand, are you starting to see an evolution of the way in which you engage with Hewlett-Packard services? >> We absolutely are, and it's one thing to talk about strategy, but at the end of the day, you don't call up your technology and have a conversation with it, you call up people. And what we're seeing is that Hewlett-Packard Enterprise is investing in a level of expertise within the Pointnext services organization that is unparalleled. That is a massive change over the course of the last five, six, 10 years. These folks are coming into our environment now and we're finding that we are inspired by their strategies. We're not having to teach them about our business, they're actually coming in with all of these other learnings that they've gotten from all of these corporations and they're looking at our ambitions and going hey, we think we've got some ideas here. I'll tell you, our engineers are hard to impress. >> That's the truth. >> They are used to, what was your phrase, rolling it on their own. >> Yeah. >> They are used to being responsible, and they have very little tolerance for actually giving other people time within our organization. Pointnext has blown them away. We could not be doing the work that we're doing on Synergy as quickly and as effectively, installation and strategy around that without the Pointnext team. >> Well, that's the proof, that is the proof in the pudding in my opinion when your people who are, I won't say cocky, but they're kind of, sounds like they're pretty cocky. (laughs) >> Ric: Confident. >> But that you're in a, you're in media entertainment. It is one of the most disruptive, being disrupted markets right now. Smart Cities, IoT, media entertainment it's, you're the leading trend in IT right now, media entertainment. >> And in our team, there's simply no tolerance at DreamWorks Animation for technology getting in the way of the business. The fact of the matter is technology always has to be enabling the storytellers, enabling the filmmakers, enabling the business and ambition. And the key is is that our engineering team, they feel responsible to that. One of the things that we're finding with the new Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, the Pointnext team, Ric's team with the Synergy deployments, is that we actually feel like we've got a partner that can up our own game. >> John: Good. >> And we do deep beta programs with them on everything that we're doing to make sure that we're meeting that next generation of what they need. It's a fantastic partnership. >> Well Ric, congratulations on the success, and Kate thanks for sharing all the great stories and your experience DreamWorks Animation. Great to see that trend, again media entertainment, you guys are doing great stuff. We're doing our share with digital TV here, we're not a, we live on the edge of the network with theCUBE here at HP Discover. With DreamWorks Animation, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, stay with us for more day three coverage here in Las Vegas at HP Discover. We'll be right back. (tech music)

>> Presenter: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. (light techno music) >> Okay welcome back everyone we are here live in Las Vegas for HP Discover 2017. This is SiliconANGLE's, theCUBE is our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder and co-CEO of SiliconANGLE with my co-founder and co-CEO Dave Vellante with Wikibon, and our next guest is Alain Andreoli, who's the Senior Vice and President General Manager of the DCIG, the Data Center Infrastructure Group at HPE. Great to see you, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here again. >> Great show, you guys have a lot of great innovations. Notable was the analyst press conference that we were at. You were feeling all the questions, the buzz around Gen10 and all the action you guys are putting inside the new service from security to all the innovation that's happening, pretty great opportunity and the true private cloud numbers coming out of Wikibon are showing fastest growth is cloud on-prem. This points to significant opportunities, your thoughts? >> Yeah, well, the need for compute is clearly growing and you continue to grow forever. What we see is that the compute points are also expanding so it can be on-prem, it can be off-prem, it can be in the edge, and on-prem there is a bit of a revolution which is coming from the experience of the public cloud, and so, private clouds are becoming very, very fancy. So you see on-prem compute basically turning into two families, very specialized for high-performance computing, for mission-critical, for AI, and others. The things that are really, very critical to the business. And then for all the other workloads, they need flexibility like a public cloud but on-prem because they can keep control, they want to mimic the agility and they want to have the same economic level. So we are playing on both fronts, we are doing very well on the specialized front with HPC Acquisitions of HDI and so on, and we are making a breakthrough on the private cloud with Synergy and soon with the new stack. >> So the whole notion of DevOps and cloud have opened up the doors and certainly you guys have been very clear with the simplicity message. Big data is big part of the application process, cloud providers, multiple clouds, so this right mix conversation-- >> Alain: The right mix, the right mix >> Is what Meg is putting out their is a nice message, and what you're saying is "hey the on-prem is not going "anywhere and we have the data to prove it." But you look at the big clients, they want the control. What is the conversation that you're having when you say, "Hey I need more capabilities," obviously high-performance computing, powering AI, and machine-learning, we're seeing, obviously those things. But from the business model side, what are the customers asking from you for solutions? What are the key things they want from HPE right now? What is that-- >> In terms of economic control? >> Solutions that are top priorities. When they sit down and say, "Well, you know, I need more compute." Okay, what does than mean? What specifically are you building for customers to help them with the digital transformation, to simplify the business model of on-prem with cloud and to deal with the multi-cloud world. >> So, they believe that the management of the mix between the different alternatives that they have right now with, certainly, a complexity and they rely on us to take this complexity away. So we are very bullish about the project New Stack because we think that this will allow data to be managed across the different horizons in the data center, across multiclouds and with more and more data being created and eventually computed at the edge. So these three horizons together make intelligent distributed computing, which will be more self-tuning, which will be extreme data analytics, and ultimately, this will allow customers to manage data seamlessly across everything. We think that this is kind of strategically where our customers want to be. Then the way they get there depends. Some customers have a view, which is just modernization of what they have right now. Some of the customers want to be more dramatic and run everything they have as if it was a seamless cloud, and then they have to decide the mix between on-prem and on-prem. Most of the customers, I was looking at what is actually making the public cloud. More than 50% are born from the cloud, they are people who never had the data center and may never have one until they grow up because then when they grow up, they need one. >> John: (chuckles) For control? >> What we have learned, for control-- >> John: And expense-- >> Dave: The Cloud Cliff. >> Expense, That's The Cloud Cliff. So, more than half of the public cloud customers never had a data center. About 15%, 15, 16% of the customers of the public cloud are consumers. And then, you have a small third which are enterprises. That's the first thing to realize, right? That the move of the enterprise is still pretty small. I was discussing with the largest systems integrator in Germany yesterday, and their view is the German perspective, because here in the US we have a tendency to believe that everything is public cloud or will be. The German view is totally different, for instance. So, I think, you know, we have gone through a cycle which has been public-cloud-heavy in terms of marcom where the market believed that public cloud was going to be everything, and we are now landing in a reality zone where this mix is an opportunity for the customers. They have some trivial workloads that can go on the public cloud, but we see that on-prem remains, basically, what people are doing. >> That last point's really important because even though you said, "Well, less than maybe a third is enterprises "in the public cloud," if you look and feel the workloads that are going to the public cloud, it's not the core of enterprise IT workloads. >> So what I believe is that we are thinking it the wrong way when we think in public cloud and which workload goes there. The workloads are not going to the public cloud. It's that a lot of the workloads that used to be run on-prem are now coming from the cloud, SaaS-- >> John: Right. >> That's different, that is very different. So, customers are not deciding what is on-prem, off-prem, they are now looking at software packages that come from the cloud, like Salesforce, or others. And this means that while they're running their data center as vital applications that don't come from the cloud, so it's more and more specialized, and then they have a variety of applications that don't come from the cloud, that they will run on their public cloud. This is why I see these two topologies, if you want, of specialized-- >> John: Yeah. >> Super compute and data-centric, and then, very fluid, and this where Synergy plays so well, because Synergy allows this fluidity-- >> John: Yeah. >> Of pools of resources, and you can basically adjust to the various applications that you have. >> Oh, this is classic early adopter kind of behavior, you mentioned the SaaS coming in and being influenced because they're easy to get into right? You can get some subscription and get some value, but then I think the true private cloud is interesting to me because what it really shows, to extend your point, is that the business models are changing for the agility piece, that's the DevOps. So, as you see IT consumption changing to cloud-like, or true private cloud-- >> Dave: Yep, yep, yep, yep. >> Essentially, that is an OPEX business model. So, the business transformation is now where the rubber hits the road for what digital is. So to me, we see this dynamic so with that being said, what aspects of HP taking advantage of? You mention Synergy, what else do you guys have cookin' up? What's out there that customers are using to turn the knob and go faster on the acceleration on that? >> With customers, I wouldn't like us to look at customers only as being enterprises, because as more and more business is being generated from the cloud, people who do business from the cloud, whether they are enterprise service providers, or software providers, or business born from the cloud, these people also acquire technology, and they have need for services, and they require infrastructure. So, this is a segment of the market where we're going to to double down in the future. So, we are looking, we call them, like, Tier 2, Tier 3's, because the very large ones have a tendency to try to build their own things-- >> John: Yeah, service providers-- >> But, a lot of other service providers and there are-- >> John: Cloud service providers. >> You know, a small third of the market also demand technology and support from us. So, we are going to expand our cloud line strategy. We are going to offer open systems, and be very aggressive there, both for compute, storage and for networking. So there are kind of two prevalent markets. If you want more, there is a market of completely open systems, we call them whiteboxes, you know, we call them for the cloud, Cloudline, which is now a multi-billion dollar business for us. And then you have the people who want products that offer a lot of value that are differentiated, like Synergy, like Proliant, like Blade Systems, like 3PAR, like Nimble, and so on, and obviously we are doubling down on these as well with our Acquisitions and own development like Gen10. >> So the narrative from Hewlett Packard Enterprise and all of your competitors is, you know, hybrid is the reality, fair enough-- >> Alain: That's for sure. >> And we agree, but there is an aspect of zero-sum game here in that the markets at the macro level are not growing like they used to. So, market share becomes very, very important. You've put up a slide in your keynote, 81 straight quarters of leadership. Now, we all know that you can play games with the numbers, but the most important metric we would argue is revenue share. If you're number one in revenue, that's the true market leadership. So you've had 81 straight quarters of leadership, as we've just defined leadership. That's 20 years. >> In this quarter, we had leadership, and next quarter I think we'll have leadership as well-- >> Dave: How have you been able to do that? >> We are not looking at market share for the sake of market share. We want to bring value to our customers and to our shareholders. So if there is, moving forward, a part of the market that does not yield value for either party, we may not want to measure our market share against that because we may not define this as being our own market. But so far, we are leading the overall market in compute. We are now a strong number two in storage, with the acquisition of Nimble, and we're happy to be there. But our strategy is not being number one for the sake of being number one. >> Now on Dave's point, I'm very critical on this, I've been readin' about it, and again I may be overstepping my boundaries here, but I believe that if we're going to a new era of modern computing, dull metrics don't apply because everybody seems to be number one at something. I go to so many shows where I go to Dave where I'm number one in this, I'm-- So, the question is if the old is shifting to a new model, and it's horizontally scalable, vertically specialized kind of a marketplace, which you guys are addressing with some of your tech, what are the metrics? So that we're asking ourselves the question, what should be the benchmark standard? >> So I have a strong point of view and I was discussing with an analyst last night, we had dinner, and I've had the same point of view for the last couple of years. The history of the market is to measure by product category: rack, towers, old flash arrays, disk arrays, mixed arrays, and so on. I think this is a rear mirror view, it doesn't matter. The decisions that customers are making are: what is my specialized computing? Which includes computing, storage, networking. What is my specialized data center, basically. What is my private cloud? Then what is my consumption of IT coming from service providers and therefore, you have the service provider market, which itself can be separated into different segments. That's the way to measure the business. So, I want to be leader in specialized compute. I want to be leader in private cloud because this is what enterprise will be consuming. And basically, we're already leaders there, but I want to be continue to be leader in providing gear to service providers, who have decided to rely on partners to build their data centers and not build them themselves. This makes sense, because then you look at the market differently, you're not looking at micro-territory-- >> John: I agree, I 100% agree with you. >> Density, optimized whatever, you're saying, okay, what is a service provider going to need in the future? What is going to be specialized computing in the future? What is going to be a private cloud in the future? Once you have covered that-- >> John: Yeah. >> What is going to be compute at the edge in the future? And what do you need to orchestrate all the data? These are the clusters of the market that matters. They are the ones we are pressuring and they are the ones-- >> And you could be building technology-- 100% agree with you, I would also add, by the way, I agree with you 100%, and I would even amplify it by saying you could be building something new, like a server, chips, silicon security, that has no category. So how does that relate into things-- (laughing) >> Well, Synergy is the category. >> Dave: Right. >> You know, it's-- >> 'Cause it's horizontally scalable, so again, you could be number one, two, or three by the old categories, but be wholistically number one in the market. >> So, I think it's more, you know, it's more categories of business outcomes. >> John: Yeah. >> Like, specialized high performance, you know, flexibility, agility of a private cloud. I think that's, you know, so, if you make a parallel with the car industry, you can say is the market, like, diesel engine, or gas engine, or electric engine, or is it like sport cars, SUVs, or whatever. I want us to look at SUVs and sport cars, how do we do the best SUV? How do we do the best sports car? Versus, you know-- >> John: The components, and do how you have-- >> This technical view of it's a rack or it's a tower. >> Yeah. >> And how do you add the most value for customers-- >> Yeah. >> That is profitable for shareholders? >> At the end of the day, when we have our argument in our office about this on the research side, we say, "Look, at the end of the day, "let's identify some of these new catego-- and try 'em, not measurement points, but customers and revenue can't lie. If you have customers, here it is, number of customers. >> And so, the problem then is to measure it. Once you have defined what is right metrics, can you measure it? >> John: Right. >> And so, unfortunately, the analyst today cannot measure the market where it has evolved. So we are still looking at rack and towers, and so on, and I think this is wrong, the wrong view. >> Okay, so, talk about the hot thing that we like is the Root of Trust product, the silicon thing that's called the Root of Trust, you know, with the firmware thing. This seems to be getting a lot of buzz to show. It's innovation, we had some independent testers on with your guys, and the Gen10, this is pretty impressive. Thoughts on, is this the kind of direction you continue to go with, what's your thoughts on this security-- >> Well, we think security's super important and, you know, you open the newspaper or the TV today, and you see what's happening, it's quite amazing, including today, what's happening today, here in the US. So, it's incidental the we come in just today with our new generation of compute, but it's taken two years of interviews with customers to really understand what's most important to them. And the risk of cyber threat has turned enormous, and I think that you have been interviewing experts from the FBI, and so on-- >> John: Yeah, right. >> During this session, who came here and help us to build this solution. And I think we're coming at the right time with the right solution that will take a few years to our competitors to try to match that, and then we'll go in this direction because that's the only way technically you can do it. >> John: Yeah. >> It's at the silicon level, so you basically have unique encoding on your server in silicon, and the firmware always, you know, compares itself throughout the whole life cycle of the server, even before the server is finally built through this Root of Trust. I think we've done this extremely well, I'm very, very proud of our ingenious. >> And it's been validated against the The NIST, NIST Securities Team, and so, congratulations on that. >> Alain: And these are the most stringent startups in the industry, right? >> It's pretty impressive, I mean, this has been a trend that we've been seeing, the silicon, the silicon angle, no pun intended. But it's interesting, and always, security's come up in the past, people want that. And with IoT, the support, the attack vectors can be sealed up pretty well-- >> And so are our Edgeline products, they have IDOL 5, and so, they will also have access to this technology. >> Great innovation, thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate you share the insight. I'll give you a final word here. Share with the audience something you think they should know about HPE right now that they may not know about, I know the messaging's pretty simple, you got the nice messaging, but going beyond the messaging, what would you like to share with the audience about your group and HPE's innovation coming out of Discover 2017? >> You feel the buzz here, you can see, I think we have never been in such a focused and clear position, we exactly know the businesses we are pressuring, the Hybrid IT make it simpler, and the edge, and the service to make it happen. We are just crystal clear. But when you put the three together, you get to this dimension of intelligent distributed computing, and this is a market that we will lead in the future. Also, we are such a strong and stable company. We will have over $12 billion of cash net in our balance sheet by the end of next month. And this puts us in a position to continue to double down on these bets we have made for the future of the market. So we are very, very confident that we are in a great spot, and frankly, it's great now because it feels like we are starting to be a destination. The last 18 months, we separated from some of our legacy friends, and now, not only are we on our own, but we have a clear strategy moving forward. We are proving that we are implementing it with the six acquisitions that we have made over the last few months, and more in the pipeline, continuing to deliver the capability to integrate these acquisitions, and the capability to continue to motivate our customers to be with us. >> And the spotlight is on you guys, we'll be tracking it, thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it, Senior Vice President, General Manager of the Data Center Infrastructure Group, sharing his opinion here on what's happening and where's it going in the future for HPE. We'll be back with more live coverage with theCUBE, here in Las Vegas after the short break. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, we'll be right back, stay with us. (light techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering HPE Discover 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Hey welcome back everyone, live here in Las Vegas is Silicon Angle Media's Cubes, three days of exclusive coverage, we're on day three of HPE Discover 2017, our seventh year covering HPE Discover. Our second year, Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, Discover, I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vallante. Our next guest is Flynn Maloy, Vice President of HPE.next solution, pointing to what's next. Welcome back Good to see you. >> Thank you. Good to see you guys. >> So nice, clean positioning, point next, nice and tight. Nice messaging. >> Flynn: Thank you. >> Clean positioning, new opportunity, give us the update. What is the positioning? How's it been going? And what's the reaction with partners? >> Well, when we last spoke in London, we told you we were going to do something big with our services business and that's what we did. In March, we launched HPE.next and we've got really fabulous reaction from the market. We see it, all of our customers across the board, our marketing numbers, in terms of our inbound. What it looks like, the amount of interest that we're gathering, really we couldn't be happier with where .next has gone. >> For the record, just why ... What's the motivation behind .next? Why do this? What's the official position on why you're doing it and what's the impact for the customer? >> Well, you know, a year ago, just before the show, we announced that we were going to be spinning out our outsourcing business. And up to that point, over the last five years, six years, we'd approached our largest customers with a run message, we can help run your IT. And I think Meg, and the board of directors, and our senior leaders, really took a look at it and said, "It's a good business for a certain segment "of the market, but where HPE wants to go is we want to be more about advise, and transform, we want to help you get there. Not necessarily do it for you. That market's changing. As we announced and moved out that business, we took look and, in fact, I think the very first question you guys asked Antonio in London was, "So, jokingly, you're a play product company "now, right guys? " And no, we're not. We have a big services business, a big part of our business, and that's what .next was, was really to bring that to the front as we spun out the outsourcing business, we really wanted to bring our very strong services business, our consulting and support business to the front, rebrand it, get it out there. And really lead with services. And I think at the show this week, across the board, on main-stage, on the show floor, you can see again and again, HPE is walking the walk on really realizing, let's start with digital transformation, let's lead with services first and start with outcomes. And then bring in the technology to get you where you need to go. >> Wow. And that's a business that Antonio used to run, so obviously he's got an affinity for that. Flynn, can you take us through the background of the branding and sort of what you went through? It's always fascinating to us. How did you get to .next, right? It didn't just fall out of the sky. >> Well, we have the company, we have a company that accelerates next, right? So, that's what HPE does. We believe in what's next. We believe in always looking to the future. HPE has always been about invent, and innovation, right? We are looking for what's next and so we sat down with some of our senior leaders and said "Okay, we could certainly name ourselves "HPE Services and look like everybody else in the market." You go out there and look at our competitors, you've got global services, technology services. We think it's time to break from the past. We think it's time to look to the future and point to the future, and we are the company that accelerates next, we have a point of view on where our customers should go. We have a point of view on where technology is going. And so we want to help point you to what's next. It's got to feel it's certainly heavy on advisory, and you heard Meg on stage talk again and again, this is our business. We're not about run. We're about advising. We understand where digital transformation is going, we have a point of view, and let us talk to you about it, let us help you on that endgame. >> Dave: And bumper sticker the brand promise for us. What's the brand promise? >> We make hybrid IT simple. We power the intelligent Edge and we have the expertise to make it happen. >> The bridge to the future is really, the customer are looking at the future and I like the name, by the way. I think it's great, it's clean, it's generic in a way, .next. Clever. But really, the transformation journey is about business process and improvement and changes with Cloud, and big data. You see in the apps, with div apps, you see, certainly that movement, top line revenue growth. This is really about crossing to the future, right? I mean, for the customers. Having that head room option, that's where you guys see the advisory shining. How do you talk to the customers? Because, again, they start on a journey, you guys always talk about, but ultimately there's going to be some unknowns that they have to face. How does that play into what you guys are doing with the hybrd IT message, simplifying hybrid IT? >> I'll definitely say, I completely agree with that. And that's the way Anna Pinczuk, who you guys spoke to earlier today, that's the way she really envisions it. She used an analogy for like a GM car. In the 70's, you had a different key for the trunk, a different key for the ignition, A different key for the door and customers are looking for one key, That's what they're looking for. And so we want to create a seamless experience for our customers across the board. And you may not always need a high-end, big transformation is that's not what you're looking for. Most customers today, don't have one giant, macro-transformation. There's dozens of them going on in different areas and that's the way we've kind of built this business is to be able to handle the small ones, to be in and out quickly, you know, it's not bringing in thousands of people. It's taking a look at, what are you trying to do and let's get some quick wins, and there might be some big ones along the way. But one other thing you touched on was business model, and I know we talked a lot about consumption this week, what changing business models are like. And I know we've talked about that at length in the past and we really see that big change around, what we believe is a huge opportunity. We've talked about flex capacity a lot this week, right? Which is, your stack, in your environment. We put a lease on top, we run-time optimize it, activate capacity management and basically it feels to you, as it flexes up and down, like a public Cloud option on Prim. But it's your stack in your environment. And there's so much more that we can do with that, and Anna talked about in hers, about private backup. We're debuting in here. Private backup is a service, which is basically your backed up data, that you pay for as you back it up, but it's on Prim. It's not out there. It's inside of your firewall, it's inside of your environment, and that's a big deal. We're onto something there. >> Well, where that gets interesting, too, is if you backup not only your data, but maybe you back up data from AWS, or maybe you back up data from your CRM system. >> Absolutely. >> And it goes both ways. So you become that sort of center of the data protection service. And there's probably "n" number of examples like that, but we've talked in the past about services as a service. We kind of joked about that. But is that the model that you're working toward? >> Well, I would say as the marketing leader for .next, we're not branding services as a service. We've tested out a lot of different ideas. What we fundamentally believe is that there's a new category out on the market. We believe that, as we say, hybrid IT will win in the end. We believe that there are plenty of workloads that are going to go out to the commodity cloud, that's a very important part of your right mix. We've talked to enterprises across the board, you hear it across the bard, why flexible capacity has been so successful. There is this whole class of service which is consuming, but consuming on Prim. And that doesn't just mean a lease, that means private backup, that means a group of clusters, that means a whole series of IT, but you consume it. You meter it, you measure it, you consume it, You pay for what you use but you do it inside of your own environment and that's not only in your data center. Your environment can be your manufacturing floor, or your mall, or your airport because we have these great Edge assets. >> The refinery. >> Right., and if you're able to again, same idea, put that sort of consumption model in place, at your Edge, or in your data center ... Of course, bring in public when you need it, but that mix, that right mix, we think this is a huge class of service. We think we have a six year advantage on the market, and we're going to go strong on that. >> I guess the point is, in services traditionally, either a maintenance contract or it's an SOAW-based business, and what you're describing now is much more of an at-your-service, monthly, or whatever, quarterly billing, type of cycle, right? >> Flynn: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I think the tail wins for you guys have the wind at your back and I think you're right. You're onto something. Some things we're seeing here at the show, and also other Cube events we've done is, micro services, you're seeing things with Cloud Native on the Cloud side, and general Cloud, on Prim as well as in the public micro services. And people know about the compos-ability of lego blocks and open sources even going down to the point where things are being open-sourced like we've never seen before, so people have to cobble together and roll their own solutions. The other thing that's interesting and most notable, that's come up this week, is Ricky Vaughn's private Cloud report, that true private Cloud report came out and the only one in the market that actually has real numbers, points to-- >> Flynn: Great numbers, by the way. Love it. >> This is complete validation, that the right mix is also a good message in the sense that are on-Prim, those are some markets over 260 billion. That means, that IT is not going to be shrinking, like some might say, service shipments are certainly shrinking maybe here and there, but IT is growing in a Cloud-like environment. On-prim's not going away. >> No. >> So this really comes down to, Okay, I've got to deal with what I've got, build on these micro services, a lot of open-source projects coming in. This is, I think, a great opportunity for you guys. How are you going to attack that? How do you go in to a customer, because I know they have Slizer on it, the globalist ... (overlapped talking) ...was on earlier, these are big problems to solve. >> Yep. >> How do you engage with that kind of level of scope? >> Well let's start with, and we completely agree with the Premise As you know, we've been talking about that for a while. We also believe that the term on Premise, that doesn't just mean a big, air-conditioning room in your building, that can be the Colo, that can be your hoster, that can be in a lot of different places, but it's your private item, right? That's what it is. >> The air control. >> That's the point, it's control, it's about controlling security. And once you put that in, as you develop the micro services, we know, to answer your question directly about, how do we engage? We know these enterprise customers, and even smaller customers. They want to move from capex to apex, that's an overused term. But really it means, instead of buying 100 servers and then I go over provision for six months, and then another 100 servers, right? If we can get into a way where we can actually get apex, and that conversation is ... You're still starting out with the same business problems, this is kind of the thing that we learned. It's not some, you don't go in and say "Apex to capex", you go in and say "Hey, you need a new customer "experience, right? You want to transcribe your "customer experience." (overlapped talking) >> That's right, let's talk about your digital transformation that you want to put in, what's the new technology that you need? And then, let's talk about the business model that follows behind that, so it's not consumption for consumption's sake. It starts as, what is the outcome and then, bring in the technology, solve the problems, bring in the partners, and then, you can consume it over time. >> John: I think that validates why hybrid Cloud is so hot. We've been pointing at it, but really when you break it down like that, with a true private Cloud environment, which is essentially IT on Prem, or however you describe it. Then you got hybrid. That's where workloads, move to the Cloud and that destination-oriented multi-Cloud environment. So, we believe that multi-Cloud will be there. I personally don't think, and Levon's got some research coming out on this, that multi-Cloud is a little bit further out. That hybrid is a gateway to multi-Cloud. And right now, you can be on multiple Clouds but it's just different workloads. But the nirvana is just having workloads just moving in and out of Clouds, and eventually that's how I see it. What's your thoughts on that? >> Well, have you had a preview of New Stack, and some of the discussions this week? >> Well, we've had the PowerPoint preview and today, this afternoon, we get the NBA preview. >> Oh, fantastic. Well, we see that, too. We believe that that's the control point. And by the way, you're not going to find that from public Cloud, you're not going to get that... The over-arching single pane. That's not going to come from that side, it's going to come from this side, right? And that's where New Stack is aimed, That's where a lot of our software-defined technology is aimed and we completely agree and we think that, that's what's going to be that top control layer. >> Dave: You'll get, from the public logic, about five single panes, or four single panes, or eight single panes, or ... >> That's right, but you know what? You need a pane for the pane, I mean ... There's a sea of panes. (laughter) Flynn, thanks for coming out on The Cube, I know you got a hard stop, but I want to just get your thoughts. What's next as you go out and market .next? Great, clever name. Simple to get. Pointing to the future. We do a little dab with the point. >> It is a dab point. >> With a point to the future, up to the right, growth. What's next? What are you guys going to be doing in the marketplace? What's the message going to be? What's going to be the cadence of .next from a marketing standpoint? >> Well, we're going to continue to talk to our customers about the value that .next brings, and we're just previewing a few services here this week. We think it the tip of the ice berg, around, private backup as a service, big data as a service, we think there is an enormous amount of work here. We've previewed a little bit of it, Anna's talked about it on stage. I think, in the next few months, you're going to see us really come out strong to talk to the market, because we have, we do believe we have a six year leadership in this space, we purchased Cloud Cruiser, which is secret sauce that really allows us to do these kinds of services. Measure the meter, you know? And I expect to see a bunch of new messages and a bunch of new services around the space. >> John: Awesome. Thanks for coming on The Cube, great to have you, great conversation, new opportunities that is the ice berg. Cloud is certainly changing, a big day to IoT, all happening in real time. This is the Cube happening here, day three, coverage of HPE Discover, 2017. Stay with us. More coverage after this short break, stay with us. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> Welcome back everyone. This is The Cube's day two coverage of HPE Discover 2017. We're here live in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconAngle Media. My other co-founder Dave Vellante, head of research at Wikibon.com. And our next guests are Kevin Wan, Director of Software Defined and Cloud Group Marketing at HPE, and William Fellows, co-founder and VP of Research at 451 Research, well-known research firm with Wikibon, and some of the other research firms out there, covering the cloud. Guys welcome to The Cube. >> Thanks for having us, it's exciting day today. >> So the first thing I want to get into here is, we were just talking before we went on live, about multicloud and kind of having a great debate, it's great, it's a great debate because it really is a hard definition to knock down. And Wikibon has done some research, you've got some new research, I want to get into that. Dave done some, I think, called, True Private Cloud, that shows not a decline in on-prem and server deployment, there's actually an increase. Hybrid cloud is increasing. You guys got some new research. What is the state of enterprises with respect to moving to cloud, vis-a-vis hybrid. 'Coz certainly there's movement there. What's going on? >> So, users want to make decisions about where to place applications, and workloads, and source services based upon policy, based upon latency, based upon geography, and so on. And as the worlds of cloud and hosting, and co-location and managed services, as they converged those options are growing exponentially. And, you know, what HP has been doing is to bring into view tools which allow organizations to select those best environments to meet their hybrid IT needs. And what we've seen in 451 Research is that between now and the next couple of years, there's going to be an increased momentum to put those workloads and applications into different kinds of cloud environments. In other words, when you talk to an organization, they say, "Well, we've got a bit of SaaS here. "We're using a bit of public cloud here. "We're using some other hosting services. "We're doing things on-premise." Already they're using multiple cloud services. So when we asked our global commentator network of about 60,000 folks for whom enterprise IT is their day job, which we call voice of the enterprise, they've told us that between now and in two years' time, existing 40% of workloads in those cloud environments is going to become 60%. In other words, the majority of workloads in two years' time are going to be running in some kind of cloud environment. Now, the mix of those is going to be different depending on different organizations. But we found a variance of less than about 10% across different vertical markets, which suggests there's an interesting benchmark, if you like, a right mix coming into view in terms of the balance of when you would use public cloud services, when you would use hosted private, and when you would use on-premise services. >> Ken I want to get your thoughts on this because that's a great point he's bringing up. The cloud business model is not necessarily, I have to move it to public. You can do cloud-like on-premise. That's where the True Private Cloud comes in. To your point, there is a massive shift to cloud-like, and there's a trend towards the same software on-prem as in the cloud. So, as these things get laid out, you're seeing that path. So just because you're still on-prem doesn't make you not cloud, right? >> That's right, that's exactly right. So what we're seeing is, as William was saying, is that there's an interest in figuring out where is the best place for workload to go? Based on its performance needs, it's security, compliance, cost needs. And often we find that sometimes traditional IT leaving a traditional IT environment is the best thing to do. Sometimes it's best to put it into a private cloud, sometimes it's best to put it into a public cloud. So we're seeing a lot of customers with multiple clouds, on average, somewhere between five and eight clouds today. And the challenge they're starting to have now is, "My God, I've got five to eight clouds. "How do I manage all these?" >> "How'd that happen?" Clouds brawl. >> Yeah, and so, but there's very little interoperability between them. And so you have different stacks of management for each of these clouds. And there's a fair amount of resource required to manage all these different clouds. So I think what the next thing you'll start seeing are tools that allow you to migrate resources, or look at clouds more holistically, and to analyze the entire cloud environment, all the multiple clouds, and to be able to use policy, and then analyze where is the best location automatically, and to be able to pull cost data out, performance data out, across the whole cloud environment. >> And this is what we've, at 451 research has been calling best execution venue for about 10 years now. So the idea is that for every class of IT-related business need, there's an environment which best balances performance, and cost, and other things. And IT should be able to deploy to that environment automatically. And get the benefits associated with having things in the right resources and the right services they need. >> That's right. Our view is that people need to figure out their right mix. Every company will use a different amount of SaaS, private cloud, public cloud, based on their company strategy. An online bank will have different requirements than a brick-and-mortar bank, as an example. Even though they're in the same industry. Because their business models are different, their mix will be different. So we work with each company to figure out what their right mix should be, where do they need that portability. One of the exciting things that we're doing today at Discover is talking about Microsoft Azure Stack. We've worked with Microsoft to bring out this new offering that provides full compatibility between what's running on-premise and what's running in a public cloud. So Azure Stack uses the ability to run Azure-consistent services right out of your data center with its fully API compatible. So that means, as a developer, I can write an application and deploy it into either a public cloud or a private cloud, with no change to the code at all. >> So the extensibility is the key message here. You don't have to adopt Azure Stack from the Azure cloud. You can actually mirror that on-prem in a cloud-like way that's still on-prem. And you can call that private cloud. I mean you can call it private cloud but then that's what it is. >> Right, right. >> But that's obviously going to resonate with developers, this whole notion of infrastructures as codes. So one of the things that CEOs complain about is we spent way too much money on non-differentiated infrastructure management. And so to the extent that you're putting in these clouds, private cloud, whatever, hybrid clouds, that substantially mimic public cloud, William, what does your research show in terms of how organizations are shifting their spending on labor? If that premise is true that CEOs don't want to spend it on, you know, provisioning LANs, but they do wanted initiate digital transformation initiatives. Are you seeing any evidence that this notion of cloud is helping on-prem, is helping them shift their spending on labor? >> So what I would say is that cloud provides the basis and the platform for broader digital transformation agendas. And cloud brings with it some really important changes in the operating model which affect staffing and how you do these things. So, for example, moving from a process development which is waterfall or top down to, agile, from moving from a situation where resources are allocated from one where they are consumption based. So from installing new things in different Silos to where things are updated on a continuous basis. So those things have a dramatic effect on the way you organized internally in order to support that, which indeed then set you up for doing these things that would create a digital platform. So linking technology, information assets, customer experience, marketing, and so on. And I think Devoxx is at the heart of that because it provides the automation, the process change, 'coz remember what we're talking about here is moving from, you know, a world in which, you've talked about, the Silo, to one in which is collaborative, to one in which is multidirectional, and to one which is based on sharing. And I think all of those things have an impact on how you staff for those. I think there's been enough research to understand that not everyone is going to make it necessarily in this transformation. But I think our research indicates that at least 2/3 of the folks in silent organization bind to the things that they will need to be doing in order to support this digital transformation. >> We've certainly seen, the many customers that I've talked to, look at this and see this huge opportunity for essentially automating a lot of functions, you know, the LANS, the networks, installing the application, the databases, and all that. And through this automation, all these people who used to do this now are available to be re-skilled, to do higher level, more value-differentiating sorts of work. All these IT departments are struggling because they want to bring, focus more of their effort on new services but they're so much work to just maintaining the existing services. They don't have the time. So one of the things the cloud does is reduce the mundane day-to-day time and take those resources and move them on a more differentiated value-creating types of services so that they can advance their businesses. >> Ken, interesting point, I mean, yes they were talking about IT, information technology, those two words, I mean, they're not going away, they're only getting stronger. And it's interesting that some of the narrative in the media is the decline of servers, decline of storage shipments. Now I get that, those boxes may or may not be sold in the same volumes as it was before. But the growth shifting somewhere else. And that's the issue. I want to get your thoughts on that. Because it's not the decline in the IT. It is growing if you look at the private cloud and your report suggests that there's a massive growth. So your point about shifting to the value stack is interesting. So what are you seeing with the customers? What specifically are they doing in that shift with IT resources? Is it app development? Is it more operational automation? What are some of the things that you're observing? >> We're seeing through this digital transformation, a desire to automate a lot of the common functions that they use to automate, so that they can speed up services, speed up VMs in minutes rather than days, being able to provide PaaS services to their developers. So the developers, instead of getting a VM from the IT department, then having to load in the database, the middleware, all these development tools, that he should go into his environment and request an environment, the environment automatically comes up. So now the developer doesn't have to spend time figuring out what version of database, what version of middleware, all that. The environment's up and running and he can just focus on writing code, which is ultimately what we want to do, is to help our customers get the developers doing more of what they do best, which is writing code and less of this infrastructure management kind. >> Yes they automate a way and they move to higher value-- >> Well I guess at the top of the pile there, you know, the old adage used to be that, you know, for CIOs cloud meant, you know, career is over. >> John: Not anymore (laughs). >> But what that really should apply, it means, you know, becoming the chief innovation officer, and returning to innovating for the business rather than just keeping the lights on right? >> That's right. It gives the IT folks an opportunity to think about how can you apply this new technology to the business challenges that the line of business are having. So that they can bring together those thoughts. It's very often the line of business guys don't know enough about the technology. And the technology guys don't know enough about the line of business. You've got to have somebody who knows both sides who could see how you can apply new technology to accelerate the business. >> So that underscores that the organizational roles are changing. Lest, like you say, doing this provisioning, server provisioning, more strategic initiatives. There's an area in the market place that everybody sort of talking about as jump-all, which is this multicloud, intercloud management. Nobody really dominates that. Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, obviously, has a good position there. So first question is, what are you seeing in terms of the changing role of the IT department, the gestalt of that? And what does that mean in terms of opportunities for Hewlett-Packard Enterprise? Maybe William you could take the first? >> So what I would say is the IT department is increasingly becoming a broker of services, both those that are created internally and those that are procured from outside. And so what they need is a way to be able to to provision those, to be able to manage, to build a meter and charts, for those who implement security, and governance, and so on. So what we're seeing is the rise of sets of cloud management technologies and real large, you know, we talked about, a cloud management platform that enables users to find, access, and use, you know, a range of different kind of services. And this is what HP is going to be providing with, you know, the New Stack. And the New Stack is effectively a cloud management platform. >> Absolutely >> Right Ken? >> So talked about the opportunity that you see from Hewlett-Packard Enterprise's perspective. >> So what we see is exactly that the challenge that you laid out, is that there's a lot of different clouds out there but there's still a lot of manual work to have to configure and manage them individually. And so one of the things that we announced at the show is something what we call Project New Stack. So this is a vision for how we're going to enable our customers to manage a multicloud environment. So imagine if someone is using AWS, Azure, Google, VMware, OpenStack, >> Containers, Kubernetes. >> and you have a way to look across all of these different clouds and say I can see where my spend is. I can see where my capacity is. And I can do that not only as a whole but from my finance department, they can see their part as well. The HR department can see their resource usage. So now we have a way to look across the entire computing environment, the cloud environment. And understand cost utilization performance at a more holistic level, rather than at an individual level. So we look at this from three different personas. You have to think about this. And we've talked about people and organizations. So one of these personas is the IT guy, right? He has to worry about operation. So we give him a portal where he can set this environment up, where we can make connectivity into all these services on the public cloud and private cloud. We have a different persona where if it was a developer. So that developer doesn't care about the infrastructure, they don't care, all they want is access to their development tools. So we give him access to a whole market place, to different tools, whether that's Chef, Puppet, all these answerable, all these tools that they can use to do their dev ops work. And then there's the line of business. This line of business, again, he doesn't care about the network, or the storage. What he cares about is how much money am I spending? Are my services meeting the performance requirements? So we see the shift to these three very clear personas that need to interact with this environment what we call Project New Stack, and to look at how we enable this multicloud environment. >> So Project New Stack supports this notion of an IT operations management center that allows to have full visibility and control over all my clouds, my SaaS, my on-prem, my public clouds, protecting that data, securing that data. How far away are we from that nirvana? >> And not to be locked in right? Because I think one of the things that characterizes Project New Stack versus other approaches, is that it allows organizations to access and use different kinds of servers. 'Coz the danger with these things is that, you know, everyone talks about, you know, a single pane of glass, that they can easily become a single glass of pane if they don't allow you to do these things. >> That's a good point, I mean-- >> That's correct. And one of the challenges we see from the developer world is developers like to use the tools they like to use, you know, they don't like to be told what to do. So it's very important that there's ability for the developers to bring in the latest and greatest tool that their buddy, you know, that they work with just heard about, to bring in 'coz it's going to make their job a lot easier. So this Project New Stack has strong integrations to third party products and the ability to bring in new developers. >> This is a challenge and opportunity. We should follow up on this. But I want to get your final thoughts on this, both of you. Because this is an interesting challenge, but an opportunity. Too many tools, same hammer, five different versions of a hammer you have. Now multicloud which has kind of been by accident, on purpose, people just got to Amazon over here, they wake up and they go, "Oh my God, I'm in multiple clouds." That doesn't mean multiclouds in the sense of seamless workloads moving around and best resource. So in a way there's an existing kind of legacy set up here. So your thoughts on how customers can manage this. Is that accurate? Do you agree or-- >> So, you raise a good point. So there's a small percentage of folks who are using multiple clouds to fulfill a single business process. However, the majority, when they say hybrid cloud, it just means they're using different clouds to meet different needs at different times. >> Workloads, on Azure, I've got some Office 365, I've got some analytics on Redshift-- >> Exactly, but we haven't seen is organization's moving workloads and applications between clouds based upon minute by minute or penny by penny changes in price. However, the world of HP and other folks envisage is one where you will be able to, because of the needs of a particular application or a geography or latency, you will be able to move data between these things. >> Or cost as you said. >> Exactly. >> So build a stack for your company basically. So you're essentially giving a composability fabric, and go to a company and saying, "Hey, there's no general purpose products anymore, "here's a New Stack approach where you can kind of," I won't say cobble together, but you know, stitched together what they need. >> Put together your right environment, and in fact it's not just going to be about moving application across different clouds based on container technology, it's certainly one of the things that we'll be doing, but even beyond that, it's the ability to run different micro services on different clouds so your actual service is actually running on multiple clouds, all managed together by a single environment. And the operator can look and say, "Oh looks like this service needs a little more resource, "so let me automatically provide that more resource." So we're scaling up, your application continues to meet its needs. That's where this is really getting interesting. >> Because micro services aren't always so micro. (laughs) >> You know latency and data are really important factors in this multicloud. I want to continue this conversation. >> But also if you leave the hyper-scalers to one side, every other organization is becoming a broker of cloud services to some extent. In other words, what I mean is, they're offering access to, not only their own services but to third party services as well, because if they don't, the customers are going to go elsewhere. So they need the mechanism to be able to manage that. >> That's right, that's exactly right. >> It's a great opportunity for HP to take that whole market and increase that TAM of that cloud service provider if you will, I mean-- >> Huge opportunity. >> anyone in the SaaS business is essentially a cloud provider. So you call them a cloud service provider I guess. Guys thanks so much. William great to meet you and have your commentary here on The Cube, appreciate it. Ken thanks so much for the New Stack conversation and hybrid IT. This is The Cube. Day two coverage of three days. I'm John Furrier for Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (soft upbeat music)