>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hello and welcome back to the Cube Coverage of eight of us reinvent 2020 Virtual. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Normally we're in person this year. It's a virtual event. It is reinvent and cube virtual here. We got great interview here. Segment with VM ware and A W s. Two great guests. Keep both Cube alumni. Marc Lemire, senior vice president, general manager, The Cloud Services Business Unit VM Ware and Dave Brown, Vice president Elastic Compute Cloud easy to from Amazon Web services Gentlemen, great to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. >>Great. Thank you. Good to be back. >>Thanks. Great to be back. >>So you know, Dave, we love having you on because ec2 obviously is the core building block of a device. Once the power engine, it's the core product. And Mark, we were just talking a few months ago at VM World of momentum you guys have had on the business front. It's even mawr accelerated with co vid on the pandemic. Give us the update The partnership three years ago when Pat and Andy in San Francisco announced the partnership has been nothing but performance. Business performance, technical integration. Ah, lots happened. What's the update here for reinvent? >>Yeah, I guess the first thing I would say is look, you know, the partnership has has never been stronger. You know, as you said, uh, we announced the partnership and delivered the initial service three years ago. And I think since then, both companies have really been focused on innovating rapidly on behalf of our customers bringing together the best of the VM, or portfolio, and the best of, you know, the entire AWS. A set of capabilities. And so we've been incredibly pleased to be able to deliver those that value to our joint customers. And we look forward to continue to work very closely together. You know, across all aspects of our two companies toe continue to deliver more and more value to our joint customers. >>Well, I want to congratulate you guys at VM where, you know, we've been following that story from day one. I let a lot of people skeptical on the partnership. We were pretty bullish on it. We saw the value. It's been just been great Synergy day. I want to get your thoughts because, you know, I've always been riffing about enabling technologies and and the way it works is enabling technologies. Allow your partners to make more money, too. Right? So you guys do that with the C two, and I know that for a fact because we're doing well with our virtual event cloud, but are easy to bills are up, but who cares? We're doing well. This is the trend you guys are enabling partners, and VM Ware in particular, has a lot of customers that are on AWS. What's your perspective on all this? >>You know the part. The part maker system is so important for us, right? And we get from our customers. We have many customers who, you know, use VM ware in their own environment. They've been using it for years and years, um, true for many other software applications as well and other technologies. Andi, when they moved to AWS there very often. When you use those tools on those services on AWS is well and so you know, we we partner with many, many, many, many companies, and so it's a high priority for us. The VM Ware partnership, I think, is being sort of role model for us in terms of, you know, sitting out outside Sana goal back in 2016. I think it waas and, you know, delivering on that. Then continue to innovate on features over the last three years listening to our customers, bringing larger customers on board, giving them more advanced networking features, improving. You know that the instance types of being whereas utilizing to deliver value to their customers and most recently, obviously, with Outpost AWS outposts and parking with VM ware on VM are enabled outposts and bringing that to our customers and their own data centers. So we see the whole partner ecosystem is critically important. Way were spent a lot of time with VM and other partners on something that our customers really value. >>Mark, I want to get your thoughts on this because I was just riffing with Day Volonte about this. Um, heightened awareness with that covert 19 in the pandemic has kind of created, which is an accelerant of the value. And one >>of the >>things that's a parent is when you have this software driven and software defined kind of environment, whether it's in space or on premise or in the cloud. Um, it's the software that's driving everything, but you have to kind of components. You have the how do you operate something, And then how does the software works? So you know, it's the hand in the glove operators and software in the cloud really is becoming kind of the key things. You guys have been very successful as a company with I t operations, and now you're moving into the cloud. Can you share your thoughts on how VM Ware cloud on AWS takes that next level for your customers? So I think that's a key point that needs to be called that. What's your What's your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, and I think, you know, look, every company is on a journey to transform the level of capability they're able to offer to their customers and their employees, right? And a big part of that is how do they modernize their application environment? How do they how do they deliver new applications and services? And so this has been underway for for a while now. But if if anything, I think Cove, it has only accelerated. Um, the need for customers to be able to continue to go down that path. And so, you know, between VM ware in AWS, um, you know, we're looking to provide those customers a platform that allows them to accelerate their path to application, modernization and new services and capabilities. And, um, you know, Dave talked about the ecosystem and the importance of the ecosystem that AWS and I think you know, together. What we've been able to do if you sort of think about it, is, you know, bringing together this rich set of VM Ware services and capabilities. Um, that we've talked about before, as well as new VM Ware capabilities, for example, the ability to enable kubernetes based applications and services on top of this Corby, um or platform with Tan Xue. Right. So customers can get access to all of that is they go down this modernization path. But, you know, right next door in the same ese is 375 native AWS services that they can use together in conjunction, uh, with that environment. And so if you think about accelerating that journey right Being ableto rapidly migrate those VM ware based workloads into the AWS cloud. When you're in the AWS cloud, be able to modernize that environment using the VM Ware Tansu capability, the native AWS services and then the infrastructure that needs to come together to make that possible, for example, the network connectivity that needs to be enabled, um, to take advantage of some of those services together. Um, you know, we're really we're trying to accelerate our delivery of those capabilities so that we can help our customers accelerate the delivery of that application value thio to their customers. >>David want to get your thoughts on the trends If you speak to the customers out there at VM Ware, customers that are on the cloud because you know the sphere, for instance, very popular on the Ws Cloud with VM Ware Cloud as well as these new modern application trends like Tan Xue, Project Monterey is coming around the corner that was announced that VM world what trends do you see from the two perspective that you could share to the VM ware eight of his customers? What's the key wave right now that they should be riding on. >>Yeah, I think a few things, you know, we definitely are seeing an acceleration in customers Looking Thio looking to utilize humor on AWS You know, there was a lot of interest early on, really, over the last year, I think we've seen 140% growth in the service, which has been incredibly exciting for both of us and really shows that we we're providing customers with the service that works. You know, I think one of the key things that Mark called out just talking previously was just how simple it is for customers to move. You know, often moving to the cloud gets muddled with modernization, and it takes a long time because customers to kind of think about how do they actually make this move? Or are they stuck within their own facility on data center or they need to modernize? We moved to a different hyper visor with PM on AWS. You literally get that same environment on AWS, and so whether it's a a migration because you want to move out of your on premise facility, whether it's a migration because you want to grow and expand your facility without needing to. You know, build more data centers yourself Whether you're looking to build a d. R site on AWS on whether you looking just, you know, maybe build a new applications tank that you wanna build in a modern way, you know, using PMR in Tanzania and all the AWS services, all of those a positive we're seeing from customers. Um, you know, I think I think as the customers grow, the demand for features on being were in AWS grows as well. And we put out a number of important features to support customers that really, really large scale. And that's something that's being exciting. It's just some of the scale that we're seeing from very, very large being, we customers moving over to AWS. And so I think you know a key messages. If you have a Vienna installation today and you're thinking about moving to the cloud, it's really a little that needs to stop you in starting to move. It is is very simple to set up, and very little you have to do to your application stack to actually move it over. >>Mark, that's a great point. I want to get your thoughts on that in reaction toe. What? Dave just said Because this is kind of what you guys had said many years ago and also a VM world when we were chatting, disrupting operations just to stand up the clubs shouldn't be in place. It should be easy on you. Heard what Dave said. It's like you got >>a >>lot of cultures that are operating large infrastructure and they want to move to the cloud. But they got a mandate toe make everything. Is a services more cloud native coming. So, yeah, you gotta check off the VM where boxes and keep things running. But you gotta add more modern tooling mawr application pressure there. So there's a lot of pressure from the business units and the business models to say We gotta take advantage of the modern applications. How do you How do you look at that? >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think Look, making this a simple is possible is obviously a really important aspect of what we're trying Thio enable for our customers. Also, I think the speed is important, right? How you know, how can we enable them? Thio accelerate their ability to move to the cloud, but then also accelerate their ability Thio, um, deliver new services and capabilities that will differentiate their business. And then how do we, uh, kind of take some of the heavy lifting off the customers plate in terms of what it actually takes to operate and run the infrastructure and do so in a highly available way that they could depend upon for their business? And of course, delivering that full capabilities of service is a big part of that. You know, one of my when my favorite customer examples eyes a company called Stage Coach, uh, European based transportation company. And they run a network of Busses and trains, etcetera, and they actually decided to use VM. Tosto run one of their most mission critical applications, which is involved with basically scheduling, scheduling those systems right in the people that they know, the bus drivers in the train conductors etcetera. And so if you think about that application right, its's a mission critical application for them. It's also one that they need to be able to iterate involved and improve very quickly, and they were able to take advantage of a number of fairly unique capabilities of the joint service we built together to make that possible. Um, you know, the first thing that they did is they took advantage of something called stretch clusters. The M we're cloud on AWS stretch clusters Where, uh, we basically take that VM Ware environment and we stretch it. We stretch the network across to aws availability zones in the same region, Onda. Then they could basically run their applications on top of that that environment. And this is a really powerful capability because it ensures the highest levels of s L. A. For that application for four nines. In this case, if anything happens, Thio fail in one of those, uh, Aziz, we can automatically fail over and restart the application in the second ese on DSO provides this high level of availability, but they're also able to take advantage of that without on day one. Talk about keeping it simple without on day one, requiring any changes to the application of myself because that application knew how to work in the sphere. And so you know that I work in the sphere in the cloud and it can fail over on the sphere in the cloud on dso they were able to get there quickly. They're able Thio enable that application and now they're taking the next step. Which is how do I enhance and make that application even better, you know, leveraging some of the VM or capabilities also looking to take advantage of some of the native AWS capabilities. So I think that sort of speed, um you know that simplicity that helps helps customers down that path to delivering more value to their employees and their customers. That and we're really excited that were ableto offer that your customers >>just love the philosophy that both companies work back from the customer customer driven kind of mentality certainly key here to this partnership, and you can see the performance. But I think one of the differentiations that I love is that join integration thing engineering that you guys were doing together. I think that's a super valuable, differentiated VM where Dave, this is a key part of the relationship. You know, when I talked to Pat Gelsinger and and again back three years ago and he had Raghu from VM, Ware was like, This is different engineering together. What's your perspective from the West side when someone says, Yeah. Is that Riel? You know, it is easy to really kind of tied in there and his Amazon really doing joint engineering. What do you say to that? >>Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's very real. I mean, it's been an incredible, incredible journey together, Right? Right, Right from the start, we were trying to work out how to do this back in 2016. You know, we were using some very new technology back then that we hadn't honestly released yet. Uh, the nitrous system, right? We started working with family and the nitrous system back in late 2016, and we only launched our first nitrous system enabled instance that reinvent 2017. And so we were, you know, for a year having being a run on the nitrous system, internally making sure that, you know, we would support their application and that VM Ware ran well on BC around. Well, on aws on, that's been ongoing. And, you know, the other thing I really enjoy about the relationship is learning how to best support each other's customers on on AWS and being where, and Mark is talking about stretch clusters and are being whereas, you know, utilizing the availability zones. We've done other things in terms of optimizing placement with across, you know, physical reaction in data centers. You know, Mark and the team have put forward requirements around, you know, different instance types and how they should perform invest in the Beamer environment. We've taken that back into our instance type definition and what we've released there. So it happens in a very, very low level. And I think it's both teams working together frequently, lots of meetings and then, you know, pushing each other. You know, honestly. And I think for the best experience or at the end of the day, for our joint customers. So it's been a great relationship. >>It helps when both companies are very fluent technically and pushing the envelope with technology. Both cultures, I know personally, are very strong technically, but they also customer centric. Uhm, Mark, I gotta put you on the spot on this question because this comes up every year this year more than ever. Um, is the question around VM ware on A W S and VM ware in general, and it's more of a general industry theme. But I wanna ask you because I think it relates to the US Um vm ware cloud on aws. Um, the number one question we get is how can I automate my I t operations? Because it's kind of a no brainer. Now it's kind of the genes out of the bottle. That's a mandate. But it's not always easy. Easy as it sounds to dio, you still got a lot to dio. Automation gets you level set to take advantage of some of these higher level services, and all customers want to get there fast. Ai i o t a lot of goodness in the cloud that you kinda gotta get there through kinda automating the based up first. So how did how are your customers? How are you guys helping customers automate their infrastructure operations? >>Yeah, I mean, Askew articulated right? This is a huge demand. The requirement from our customer base, right? Uh, long gone are the days that you wanna manually go into a u I and click around here, click there to make things happen, right? And so, um, you know, obviously, in addition to the core benefit of hey, we're delivering this whole thing is a service, and you don't have to worry about the hardware, the software, the life cycle all of that, Um you know, at a higher level of the stack, we're doing a lot of work to basically expose a very rich set of AP eyes. We actually have enabled that through something called the VM, or Cloud Developer center, where you can go and customer could go and understand all of the a p i s that we make available to that they can use to build on top of to effectively automated orchestrate their entire VM or cloud on AWS based infrastructure. And so that's an area we've we've invested a lot in. And at the end of the day, you know we want Thio. Both enable our customers to take their existing automation tooling that they might have been using on their VM ware based environment in their own data center. Obviously, all of that should continue to work is they bring that into the emcee aws. Um but now, once we're in AWS and we're delivering, this is a service in AWS. There's actually a higher level of automation, um that we can enable, and so you know everything that you can do through the VM or cloud console. Um, you can do through a P. I s So we've exposed roughly a piece that allow you to add or remove instance capacity ap eyes that allow you to configure the network FBI's that allow you toe effectively. Um, automate all aspects of sort of how you want Thio configure and pull together that infrastructure. Onda. You know, as Dave said, a lot of this, you know, came from some of those early just customer discussions where that was a very, very clear expectations. So, you know, we've we've been working hard. Thio make that possible. >>So can customers integrate native Cloud native technologies from AWS into APS running on VM ware cloud on any of us? >>Yeah. I mean, I'll give you one example for so we you know, we've been able to support for cloud formation right on top of the M C. Mehta best. And so that's, you know, one way that you can leverage these 80 best tools on top of on top of the m. C at best. Um and you know, as we talked about before, uh, you know everything on the VM ware in the VM ware service. We're exposing through those AP eyes. And then, of course, everything it best does has been built that way from the start. And so customers can work. Um, you know, seamlessly across those two environments. >>Great stuff. Great update. Final question for both of you. Uh, Dave will start with you. What's the unique advantages? When you people watching? That's gonna say, OK, I get it. I see the momentum. I've now got a thing about post pandemic growth strategies. I gotta fund the projects, so I'm either gonna retool while I'm waiting for the world to open up. Two. I got a tail wind. This is good for my business. I'm gonna take advantage of this. How do they modernize our application? What? The unique things with VM Ware Cloud on AWS. What's unique? What would you say? I >>mean, I think the big thing for me eyes the consistency, um, the other way that were built This between the the sphere on prime environment and the the sphere that you get on aws with BMC on aws. Um you know, when I think about modernization and honestly, any project that I do, we do it Amazon I don't like projects that required enormous amount of planning and then tooling. And then, you know, you've this massive waterfall stock project before you do anything meaningful. And what's so great about what we built here is you can start that migration almost immediately, start bringing a few applications over. And when you do that, you can start saying, Okay, where do we want to make improvements? But just by moving over to aws NBN were on AWS, you start to reap the benefits of being in the child right from day one. Many of the things Mark called out about infrastructure management and that sort of thing. But then you get to modernize off to that as well. And so just the richness in terms of, you know, being where a tan xue and then the you know, I think it's more than 200 AWS services. Now you get to bring all that into your application stack, but at a time at a at a at a cadence or time that really matters to you. But you could get going immediately, and I think that's the thing that customers ready need to do if you find yourself in a situation you know, with just how much the world's changed in the last year. Looking Thio. Modernize your applications deck, Looking for the cost benefits. Looking to maybe get out of the data center. Um, it's a relatively easy both forward and just put in a couple of engineers a couple of technicians on to actually starting to do the process. I think you'll be very surprised at how much progress you can actually make in a short amount of time. >>Mark, you're in charge of the Cloud Services business unit at VM Ware CPM. Where cloud on AWS successful more to do a lot of action kubernetes cloud native automation and the list goes on and on. What are the most unique advantages that you guys have? What would you say? >>Yeah, I mean, I would maybe just build on Dave's comments a bit. I think you know, if you look at it through the customer lens three ability to reiterate and the ability to move quickly and not being forced into sort of a one size fits all model, right? And so there may be certain applications that they run into VM, and they want to run into VM forever. Great. We could enable that there might be other applications that they want to move from a VM into a container, remove into kubernetes and do that in a very seamless way. And we can enable that with, uh, with Tan Xue, right? By the way, they may wanna actually many applications. They're gonna require, uh, complex composite applications that have some aspects of it running in communities, other aspects running on VMS. You know, other aspects connecting to some native AWS services. And so, you know, we could enable those types of, you know, incremental value that's delivered very, very quickly that allows them at the end of the day to move, move fast on behalf of their own customers and deliver more about it to them. So I think this this sort of philosophy, right that Dave talked about I think is is one of the really important things we've tried to focus on, um, together. But, you know, on behalf of our joint customers and you know that that sort of capabilities just gets richer and richer. Overtime right. Both of us are continuing to innovate, and both of us will continue to think about how we bring those services together as we innovate in our respective areas and how they need to link together as part of this This intense solution. Um, so, uh, you know that I think that you're gonna see us continue to invest, continue to move quickly. Um, continue to respond to what our customers together are asking us. Thio enable for them. >>Well, really appreciate the insight. Thanks for coming on this cube virtual, um, segment. Um, virtualization has hit the cube where we have multiple virtual stages out there at reinvent on the site. Obviously, it's a virtual event over three weeks, so it's a little bit not four days or three days. It's three weeks. So, um, if you're watching this, check out the site. Tons of good V o D. The executive leaderships Check out the keynotes that air there. It's awesome. Big news. Of course. Check out the cube coverage, but I have one final final question is you guys are leaders in the industry and within your companies, and we're virtual this year. You gotta manage your teams. You still gotta go to work every day. You gotta operate your business is a swell as work with customers. What have you guys learned? And can you share any, um, advice or observations of how to be effective as a leader, a za manager, and as a customer interface point for your companies? >>Well, I I think, uh, let me go first, then Mark Mark and had some things, you know, I think we're moving to certainly in the last year, specifically with covert. You know, we've we've we've just passed out. I think we just passed out seven months off, being remote now on, obviously doing reinvent as well. Um, it zits certainly taken some adjusting. I think we've done relatively well, um, with, you know, going virtual. We were well prepared at Amazon to go virtual, but from a leadership point of view, you know, making sure that you have been some positives, right? So for one, I have I have teams all over the world, and, uh, being virtually actually helped a lot with that. You know, everybody is virtually all on the same stage. It's not like we have a group of us in Seattle and a few others scattered around the world. Everybody's on the same cold now. on that has the same you know, be able to listen to in the same way. But I better think a lot about sort of just my own time. Personally, in the time that my team spends, I think it's been very easy for us. Thio run a little too hot waken start a little too early and run a little too late in the evenings on DSO, making sure that we protect that time. And then, obviously, from a customer point of view, you know, we found that customers are very willing to engage virtually as well around the world s Oh, that's something we've been able to utilize very well to continue to have. You know what we call our executive briefing center and do those sorts of things customer meetings on in some ways. You know, without the plane trip on either side to the other side of the world, you're able to do more of those and stay even more in contact with your customers. So it's been it's been a lot of adjustment for us. I think we've done well. I think you know, a zay said. We've had a look at Are we keeping it balanced because I think it's very easy to get out of balance and just from a time point of view. But I think I'm sure it'll show. It'll change again as the world goes back to normal. But in many ways, I think we've learned a lot of valuable lessons that I hope in some cases don't go away. I think well will probably be more virtual going forward. So that's what a bit of from my side >>creating. Yeah. Confronting hot people run hard. You can, you know, miss misfire on that and burnout gonna stay, Stay tuned. Mark your thoughts. Is leader customers defeating employees? Customers? >>Yeah. I mean, in many ways, I would say similar experience. I think, uh, I mean, if you sort of think back, right, uh, it's in many ways amazing that within the course of literally a week, right, I think about some of the BMR experience we went from, uh, you know, 90 95% of our employees, at least in the US, working in an office right to immediately all working from home. And, uh, you know, I think having the technology is available to make that possible and really? For the most part, without skipping a beat. Um, it is pretty pretty amazing, right? Um and then, you know, I think from a productivity perspective, in many ways, you know, it z increased productivity. Right? Um, they have mentioned the ability engage customers much more easily you think about in the past, you would have taken a flight to Europe to maybe meet with, you know, 5 to 10 customers and spent an entire week. And now you can do that in, you know, in the morning, right? Um, and the way we sort of engaged our teams, I think in many ways, um, sort of online, uh, can create a very, very rich experience, right? In a way to bring people together across many locations in a much more seamless way than if maybe part of the team is there in the office. And some other part of the team is trying toe connect in through resume or something else. A little bit of a fragmented experience. But if everyone's on the same platform, regardless of where you are e think we've seen some benefits from that. >>It's interesting. You see virtualization. What that did to the servers created cloud, you know. Hey, Productivity. >>You also have to be careful. You don't run those servers too hot. You >>gotta have a cooling. You got the cooling Eso I You know, this is really an interesting, you know, social, uh, equation Global phenomenon of productivity Cloud. Combined with this notion of virtual changes, the workloads, the work flows, the workplace and the workforce, right, The future work. So I think, you know, we're watching this closely. I know you guys have both had great success from the pandemic with this new pressure on the cloud, because it's a new model, a new way to do things, So we'll keep watching it. Thanks for the insight. Thanks for coming on and and enjoy the rest of reinvent. >>Great. Thank >>you. Great to be here. >>Okay, this the cubes coverage. I'm John for your host of Cuban, remember? Go to the reinvent site. Three weeks of great virtual content over this month, Of course. Cube coverage for three weeks. Stay tuned off. All the analysis and a lot of great thought leadership in the industry commentary. Stay with us throughout the month. Thank you. Yeah,

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome to the Cubes coverage of VMRO 2020 Virtual this The Cube Virtual I'm John for your host, covering all the action for VM World not in person. This year it's virtual, so we're bringing you the virtual interviews remotely. We've got two great guest here. Marc Lemire, senior vice president general manager of the Cloud Services business unit at VM Ware and David Brown is the vice president for two at AWS Amazon Web services. Both Cube alumni's great to see you guys remotely Thanks. Coming on eso i first vm worlds not face to face. Usually it's great event reinvents Also gonna be virtual again. It's, you know, we're gonna get the content out there, but people still gotta know the news is gonna know what's going on. Um, I remember three years ago, I interviewed Pat Kelsey and Andy Jassy in San Francisco on the big announcement of AWS and VM Ware Uh, vm ware on a W s. Really? Since then, what a great partnership Not only has VM where have cleaned up their clarity around cloud. But the business performance mark has been phenomenal. Congratulations. All the data that we're reporting shows customers are leaning into it heavily Great adoption and super happy success. A US congratulations as well for great partnership. Mark three years, Uh, with the industry defining partnership. Ah, lot of people were skeptical. We're on the right side of history, I gotta say, we called >>it. That's right. It's an update. Yeah, No, look, we're super excited. Like you said, It's the third year anniversary of this game changing partnership and look, the relationship could not be stronger right across engineering the product teams to go to market teams really getting stronger and deeper every day. And at the end of the day, you know, of course, what it's about is innovating on behalf of our customers, delivering compelling new capabilities that allow them thio, migrate and modernize. And, you know, look, we're just really pleased with the partnership, right? And I think, as a result of that depth of joint engineering, building and delivering the service together, you know, we're proud to be able to say that it addresses are preferred public cloud partner for the Starbase workloads. >>You know, I remember at the time David talking to Terry Wise Ah, native West Side and Andy, of course on Ragu the architect for this vision of the partnership. And this changed how vm Ware has been doing partnerships on. I want to talk about that because I think that's a great use case of what I call the new cloud native reality that everyone's living in. But before we get there, Mark, there's some news tied around AWS and VM. Where could you take a minute to, uh, share the news around what's going on with VM World 10 0 You got connect. You got all kinds of enhancements. Just the update on the news. >>Yeah, sure. So you know, we continue Thio, listen closely to our customers and continue to deliver them new value, new capabilities and a few things we're gonna highlight at being world. The first is we've heard from many customers, you know, they love the ability to rapidly migrate their visa service workloads to the AWS Cloud and VMC on AWS is really a game changer. From that perspective on dso that continues to be really, really compelling use case for many customers. But what they've also said to us is, Look, it's not just about migrating to the cloud. It's also about migrating and then modernizing. And so, together with AWS, we have really brought together the richest set of tools for our customers to enable them to modernize those applications. Of course, we've talked about before. Customers have access to the full rich set of AWS services on Ben within VM or called on AWS. We're now announcing support for native kubernetes capabilities within VM Ware Cloud in eight of us taking advantage of the VM Ware Tansy Communities, good service. So we're really excited about bringing that that service in particular to our joint customers and then three other kind of key innovation that we're going to be talking about is around networking, right? And as our customer environments get larger and larger and they're looking to create a fairly sophisticated apologies between their on Prem Data Center between multiple VMC and AWS instances and between perhaps multiple native aws vpc s, we've done a lot of work together to really simplify the way that customers can connect all those environments together. Onda, maybe Dave wants toe talk a little about that. >>It did chime in. What's What's the news on your end to? What's the relationship and an update from the Amazon side for VM World? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the partnership has just been incredible working with being where Right, Right? Right from four years ago, when we first started with the idea of what could be a W s and beyond where do together. I think we've seen really deep engineering engagement, but also leadership engagement on support from leadership on both sides was really set. Set us up for the partnership that we have today, which has been phenomenal. You know, Mark was just talking about the transit connect feature that beyond whereas adopting and what you really seen, there is years of innovation on the networking side of the sea to where we've really understood deeply what customers need from a network. Understood the fact that they're trying to recreate some of those large networked apologies that they're doing on premise on, then trying to support them in a cloud way of supporting them in a cloud about, like, way. And so, you know, transit gateways to service under the hood that we released about two years ago. It reinvent. And so what we've been doing with being where he's working out. What is Transit Gateway mean within the VM Ware environment? And so really bringing customers that that rich connectivity that they need? You know, whether it's between the BBC's between the VM Ware environments, even back to on Prem or between regions on DSO. That's what transit connect now on being where it's gonna be utilizing and bringing to customers we're pretty excited about. You know what that means for our customers? >>You know, one of the trends I see coming out all the announcements. David, I want to get your thoughts on it because we talked briefly a few months ago, uh, for your summit virtual. But I want you to kind of put it in context of VM Ware because you're seeing virtualization of physical things. You know, Nick's with Project Monterey and all that stuff with within video and software. You see to you guys have seen this vision not just compute, but you talk about networking. You know, you have the really the first time this convergence of physical own software virtual and This is not new to you guys. I know this is the premise of Amazon Cloud. First, you have the building blocks as three NBC too. But now a slew of other services. But this trend is gonna continue. Certainly with covert and work at home, there's mawr need firm or compute more different kinds of compute. You got the physical layer from the network of the devices. This isn't gonna go away. I mean, I would just need some interviews about Space Force, and they're talking about software to find, um, devices you can't do break fix in the space. So you know all this is gonna be done with software and this idea of the physical virtual coming together I mean, I know I love the Virtual Cube were not in person, which we were. But this virtualization trend around the hardware this is this'll is all about the sea, but the sea spinning for years. How does that relate >>to be inward customer? So, I mean, I think the VM ware customers experience which realization right long before ec2 was around as well. When being we're back in the day with being workstation, uh, it's it's kind of central to what they've been able to do, you know, being able to virtualized environments, being able to stand up environments ready very quickly on a physical machine is what the English board for the customer, Easy to started in a similar place. You know, the strength of the C two is being able to get a B m in a few minutes. Andi, you know, we've just grown the what we can support in a virtualized world. So you think about where we started with very simple machines, you know, today is supporting things like HPC and and advanced. You know, accelerators like GP use. And if p g A s and so we've already pushed the virtual world now, interestingly enough, you know, Vienna is obviously doing the same thing with their hyper visor. You know, many, many happy customers there. The really interesting thing it was through the innovation that we were doing on the easy to side to work out. How do we really get the most out of virtualization? Historically, virtualization is being played with things like jitter and just performance. You couldn't really get the network performance there with CPU would stall and those are sort of the old issues. The cloud in the innovation we've been doing is largely gotten rid of those. And so it's actually almost the the the ability to remove the virtualization from easy to. That really was the ingredient that enabled us to allow VM Ware to run on this. And so that's where it all started. Back in late 2016 we started to work with my team saying, You know, we've actually built the ability through our nitro system, um, to not require our virtualization layer. And then we could replace that virtualization with the VM Ware virtualization layer and that that set us up for what we have today, right? That that made VM ware on AWS a reality that gave the VM Ware customer you know, the full VM ware virtualization support, which is what the applications have been. Both Paul, that's what they've really come. Thio love. I don't want to change all of that when they moved to the cloud and so being able to move those workloads to the cloud for being where you know on on AWS and and get the benefit of great hardware design together with the great opera visor from being where obviously, it's a virtual the end of the day with a lot of innovation that we need to make him that >>mark. I wanna get your thoughts on this because I remember when we again years ago when we covered it again on the right side of history of the prediction, we said It's gonna be a great thing, afraid of us. And the end where some of the other commentary was at that time was Oh, my God. VM was lost at the capitulated Amazon is gonna suck all the thousands and thousands of VM where customers into the cloud and they're gonna eat him up in Vienna. Where is gonna be sitting there? Uh, you know, inside of the road. Okay. Not the case. Your business performance has been exceptional. Okay? The customers have been resonating with the offering. It's been a win win. Can you talk about the business momentum and how this continues to go? Because again, everyone got it wrong on that side. This has been exactly how you guys had heated up. I mean, a little bit here, and they're not exactly, But from a business perspective, it hit the mark. What's your thoughts? >>Yeah. No. Look, we've been incredibly pleased that the customer adoption that we've seen for the service, um, in fact, you know, the total workload count on the service has increased by over 140% versus this time last year, right? So clearly, customers are adopting the service at a large scale on growing rapidly. But I think you sort of feel that killed that back a little bit, right? It's It's really driven by three use cases and the value that we're able to deliver the customers right? And so if you're a customer, that's gotta be severe based workload in your own data center, and you want to move to the AWS Cloud. You know the fastest, lowest cost lowest Chris Way to move that workload is using VM Ware Cloud on AWS, right? And so it's that use case. It's powering a lot of that consumption. Another interesting use case that Xdrive in a lot of demand and that we continue to invest and expand is disaster recovery, right? So there's some customers that still want to run some more clothes in their own data centers, but they'd like to build leverage the public cloud as a target for disaster recovery. And you think about it you're talking about, you know, Cloud delivered as a service and the elasticity and all of those benefits. Those really playoff strongly in the d r use case where you Onley really want to spend up that capacity in the scenario where you actually need it, right in the case of a natural disaster. And so VM were recently acquired a company called Atrium and we're using that technology to enable a new service we call VM Ware. Cloud D are on top of the VMC on AWS offering, and this is a really powerful capability because it allows our customers to significantly reduce the cost of disaster recovery by taking advantage of AWS is low cost s three storage, combined with some unique capabilities in the day trip service that allows us to store the V M. D. K. Is very cost effectively on the next three storage. And then, in the case of a disaster, we can spin up those hosts. You know, they've talked about the nitro host. I've been spin up those bare metal host with the being more hyper visor on it and automatically restart those workloads without requiring any. VM conversion is because, of course, it's all all these fear based, right? So you know, it's so we're really pleased with the business performance, but you know, sort of behind that, of course, is the value that we can deliver to our joint customers together. >>You know, the integration thing is interesting again. I think the success is that there's a partnership at the highest levels and trickles down into engineering. David, talk about what's next for AWS because, you know, after cloud, you've got cloud native integrations. They're gonna be needed across more partners and more customers. Um, but they don't wanna do the heavy lifting, right? So So if I'm a customer like, hey, you know what? I just want Mawr Cloud scale. I want more cloud capabilities, but I don't want to do all this integration. How does how does Amazon view that conversation? Because again, that's one of the things that every interview, every reinvent every time I talk to Andy and the team. It's undifferentiated, heavy lifting what our customers asking for free from from you guys. VM, where customers and What's the What's your thoughts on this? What do you guys thinking about right now? >>Absolutely. I think market head on a couple of key points there as well or at the customer in this case, off. I have a workload today that I run in my data center or running a cola facility, whatever it might be. And I run it for many years, Um, in many cases working with customers in industries like healthcare and finance. You know, where they've actually had these thes applications qualified or certified? I'm to actually one on that hardware. And so, you know, requiring them to move to a different hyper visor is obviously a ready they'd lift and may slow down the ultimate migration to the cloud. Um And so having vm ware cloud on AWS and the ability to say to those customers, you know, just bring your application and you'll workload and and honestly the benefit of the entire ecosystem that VM Ware provides and come and enjoy that on AWS and burst into aws eso that's just been enormously beneficial for our in customer, For AWS is probably aware. I think that's the thing that really makes the partnership incredibly strong. And from there, you know, these customers can pivot. And so one of the things that we've been doing together with Vienna, where is ongoing innovation? Right. So we recently just launched, um, support for our I three n uh storage instance type, which offers up to 50% discount storage per gig with VM ware. And there's a lot that went into that behind the scenes to make sure that that instance type is perfectly tuned for what VM were needed for their end customer. We're very excited to get that out. There are many, many customers so excited about the benefit that that brings to them, right? So they're getting all the benefit of AWS innovation while they keep the benefits that they've been enjoying on the VM Ware side. Um, and you know, that speaks to the largest sort of approach that AWS has taken in in several industries across several industries. Right being where, I think is probably the best example of that. But if you look at many other areas like our networking products, customers will often come to us and say, you know, I love using a certain type of load balance. So I love using this firewall. Um, you know, within my environment. And we have great partnerships of all those companies to say if your customer, while joint customer, wants to use whatever appliance, whatever application, you know, we have a full market place full of thousands of applications that are all certified to run on us. We want to make sure we can meet those customers where they are and simplify the immigration story for them as much as we can. >>All right, So I gotta put you guys on the spot. Mark will start with you, but you can't get the same answer. Um, to the same question. The question is, what are the customers most happy with with the partnership from a feature perspective? What's the one? What? What would you say, Mark, um is the big Ah ha. This really is amazing. I'm so happy because of this feature capability. >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, a little bit back to the discussion we're having before, but I think you know the killer use case Really for the service today is that cloud migration use case I was talking about before. And if you think about what it might have taken them previously. Right? Uh, you know, expensive time consuming. Um, you know, it requires changes to their environment. In some cases, with with VM or cloud on AWS, we could take the cloud migration that would previously been taken them perhaps years, millions or tens of millions of dollars. And we can shrink that down toe literally months, right. We have some customers like m i t. That migrated hundreds of applications literally over a weekend. Right. And we're able to do that because it's the same core enterprise Class V, and where capabilities of the customers already optimized their application to run on in their own data centers that now we've enabled on AWS as a cloud service so that that cloud migration use case kind of combined with the fact that we're, um that were delivered to them as a service in the AWS cloud. I think is, uh, you know, one of the one of the use cases that a lot of customers find extremely attractive. >>Alright, David, your turn from an M. A w s perspective. What are people happy with you for on this partnership? What praises? Are you getting some your way When someone says, Hey, man, this partners has been great. Amazon really is awesome for this. What would you say to that? >>Eso, you know, watch book about the migration I was going to choose sort of, You know, once they're in aws, um, the benefits of the power brakes writes the ability to scale on the mind. E think one of the great things about the record in AWS that VM Ware did is already built it as a cloud native service. And so, you know, the customers are able to provision additional capacity very easily. We have that capacity available on AWS, and so they're able to meet any sort of unexpected demand of scale. Um, and then together with the breadth of services that we have on a diverse is Well, you know, you and we've we thought very carefully about how being were customer would want to consume those and to make sure that the whole system set up to allow that to happen. And so allowing them to to broaden what they're using over time, is there. Engineers and teams find other services that allow them to innovate faster and, you know, bold more interesting applications so that it integrates incredibly well between AWS and VMware and customers benefit from that. >>I wanna ask you guys, um, or in the industry side, um, to comment on cloud native, um, mainly because one we cover it into it's kind of important trend. Um, recently, snowflake went public with the largest i p on the history of the of Wall Street, and it's an enterprise company. Okay, Um, and I was using that as an example because actually being where was the second most popular, uh, Hypo happens to be another enterprise company if and I was commenting on this, and I want to get your reaction to it And that is, is that if you look at the mega trend that's going on now, of all the things people talk about, it's the cloud native That's the most interesting, because this is all the value. If you look at the modern applications all the way down to the networking, everything in between. It's all about cloud native, And it's not just about cloud public cloud. It's not about It's an operating model when we talk about that. But Cloud native is the big wave that people are on. And if you're on it, your modern. This is not just hand waving. It's legit. I mean, you're seeing benefits of it. You're seeing speed, time to value all the things that people talk about, it, the events. Could you guys comment on why Cloud native is so important today and why customers and developers should be really thinking through what that is for them. Um, David will start with you. >>Absolutely. So for us part native really means, you know, have you built your application in a way that takes advantage of the benefits of the cloud? And so are you able to scare the application horizontally? Are you able, Thio? You know, building away That's redundant Across multiple data centers. Are you able to utilize services that are provided by, you know, aws, the cloud provider Thio to not have your teams build that And so what it ultimately means is you're able to spend more time focused on on building stuff that really matters. You know, if your application So you mentioned Snowflake, you know there are a great AWS customer work very closely with them and and they're able Thio, have us around a lot of the infrastructure, all the infrastructure for them in the power. And they can really focus on building an absolutely incredible data, whereas in solution for their end customer and we innovate very closely with them. And so that's really what it means, you know. And I think organizations that have gotten themselves there ready get a lot of benefit. They're able to innovate faster. They're able Thio deliver more to the end customer. You know, we spent a lot of time with companies that you wouldn't say a cloud native today and as a cloud provider, azi exciting as it is to support the cloud native customer, it's also incredibly important that we find a way to support the company. That's on a journey towards adopting the cloud, right? They've got a long history. Maybe they've been around for many, many, many years. Andi, I've got a large application stack that they need to move. And so that's where our migration programs really support customers. You need to bring non card native applications and then we're able to work with them over time to make them, you know, more cloud native and get a lot of those benefits. And so it's a journey that I think many of companies on. Some started there, and some have a way to get their differently. Has a lot of benefit. >>Isn't Snowflake really in Just a example of value creation? I mean, it's not about that. They're on Amazon. You're happy about that. But it shows that you don't have to go a certain way. If you create value, speed, scale speaks for itself. So that's just that could be an enterprise. That could be startup. That could be the Cube. It could be anybody, right? I mean, don't you see it that way? >>Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, they had a great use case that a customer need. It's in a really interesting area, obviously dealing with big data. And so I think you know, there's there's really no limit there, >>Mark. You guys are in the modern app. That's what you're hearing. It's one of the things that people gonna wanna come out of co vid. They're gonna wanna have a growth strategy. Cloud native. Why is it important? And what's your take on this? What's your reaction to the cloud native being the big wave? >>Yeah, I mean, I think. I think Dave said it. You know very well. I mean, when I talked to customers, you know, regardless of where they are in that journey, they all have some form of digital transformation agenda. Right? And at the end of the day, they wanna deliver better services to their end customers because they know that's what different is going to differentiate them. Or they want a better empower their employees, right? And as part of trying to deliver that value to their customers, their employees, you know, they want to focus their time and energy on the things that really differentiate them. Right? And, you know, for many of them that that means, you know, they don't wanna have to worry about, you know, upgrading some infrastructure software, right? That's not that's not delivering value to their to their customers. And so, you know, I think as they go down that journey, you know, we're really pleased to be ableto partner. What they did you ask to be able to create these, uh, you know, these powerful platforms together between VM ware and AWS that really deliver a lot of value to customers and allow them to focus on what's important their business, right? And, you know, by bringing together those enterprise class VM, or capabilities that hundreds of thousands of customers trust for their most mission critical workloads. Combining that with eyes, they have talked about the possibility of agility, the scalability of the dust cloud and then sort of, you know, not just those existing workloads, but also enabling a rich set of new services those customers can take advantage of to modernize. You know, whether it's VM Ware services like I talked about before with our native kubernetes capability built into BMC or whether it's the you know, hundreds and growing portfolio abated bus services, you know, giving them all, giving them the power of that full toolkit as a service so they can focus on building value on top. I mean, that's e think, really they want an equation. But that's why so many customers are moving down that path together with us. >>Well, congratulations. I want to say to you because David Lynch has been digging into the buyer behavior data, looking at the what the budget projections gonna be and VM ware on AWS has been strongly performing, and it's doing really well. Congratulations. And David. Great to have you back on. And you got reinvent less than 60 days away. Can you give us a little taste, teaser and taste of what you got going on? I know you can't reveal, but what kind of generally we're gonna be seeing at reinvent, uh, with E c two and your team >>absolutely reinvents a little different this year. It's It's obviously virtual on, so we're pretty excited about that. We think it will bring a new flavor. And so there's a lot of planning going on both in terms of product delivery. It was a It was a great time of year for us as we finish up a lot about big releases aimed at reinvent, then obviously working on content and presentations. And so, you know, a lot of interesting stuff for customers to think about is that >>they're not revealing anything. You just you know. Okay, you're gonna have some announcements. I'm sure you see two. That's a big announcements. Exactly. Hiding the ball, as they say. David Brown, vice president of Easy to it. Amazon Web services. AWS, Markle, Omar s v P. And GM. A cloud Service business unit at VM Ware. Um, great partnership. Congratulations. We'll be following it. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. Thank >>you very much. >>Okay, I'm John. For with the Cube. We're here in Palo Alto. Remote for the Cube. Virtual for VM World 2020. Virtual couldn't be face to face. We're doing our best with our cube virtual to get you the content. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat techno music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you buy Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its equal system partners. >> Welcome back everyone. CUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for AWS, re:Invent 2019. I'm John Furrier and my cohost Dave Vellante. We're here extracting the signal from the noise with theCube covers for three days. Our next two guests, Mark Lohmeyer, Senior Vice President, General Manager, Cloud platform, business unit for VMWare. Ben Tanner, Director of Cloud Enable for IHS Market. Guys, thank you for coming on theCube. Good to see you again. >> Yeah, great to be here again. >> You got a customer here, customer at Momentum Store, but before we get into that I just want to get your quick take on the key note from Andy Jassy. Clearly, the VMWare relationship with AWS, really paying off well. >> Mark Lohmeyer: Right. >> Dave's going to dig into some customer spending data in the marketplace. Great momentum, I mean, looking back a few years when you guys launched this, I mean, come on. You got to be happy. (gentlemen laughing) >> Yeah, we're pleased. I mean, I think, as you said the partnership has never been stronger and I think the foundation of that is really the tremendous customer demand we're seeing for the service. And this initial idea that Pat and Andy had together of how do we create the best of both worlds here, right? The enterprise class capabilities of VMWare are combined with everything customers love about the AWS Cloud. I think that's really come to fruition and, you know, what's been great to sort of see over the last two years is, really the customer momentum and the use cases and the way they're able to take advantage of that service to really solve some really big challenges for their business, right? And for it to become a platform for them for innovation. So really pleased to see that momentum. >> John Furrier: Ben, talk about your use case. You obviously, the story here to reinvent is don't tire kick the Cloud, you got to kind of go all in as Chastity would say, but you've got to leverage the transformational aspects of the scale, but when you get in the reality, which you live, talk about what's real about the Cloud. >> Ben Tanner: We're an information company. Data is king to us so, you know, it's real hard for us to be part in on the Cloud. You know, we have a data gravity problem, so how do we get our workload to there without necessarily having to refactor them. How do we do it with a way that we can minimize the risks? So for me, you know, getting all in on the Cloud means getting the data to the Cloud and enabling the developers to work in a way that's going to deliver business value quicker to our customers. So, that's really where VMC kind of helps bridge that gap for us, I think. Originally, we were looking at it as like a short-term capacity first venue, but then we look under the covers. Actually, you know, we can go build a brace to VMC and really get to the Cloud quicker. >> John Furrier: VMC, VMWare Cloud? >> VMWare Cloud, sorry. >> I want to make sure I get it out there. >> I want to dive in on some of the spending data that we have access to from ETR, Enterprise Technology Research. And essentially, they do these these quarterly surveys. And a survey, the most recent one, there was 1,300 people who responded. 708 of U.S. customers, of which 150 said we are spending heavily on VMWare Cloud on AWS. So my first question is, to what do you attribute, sort of the momentum, maybe you can give us the update there. And then I want to follow up on the customer point of view. >> Mark Lohmeyer: Yeah, absolutely not. I'll sort of build on some of Ben's comments, because I think what he articulated is one of the killer use cases of VMWare Cloud on AWS that I think is driving that momentum, right, which is we think it's one of the best uses in the marketplace and customers have told us this, to enable them to migrate and modernize, right? So let's talk about the migrate piece first, right? I mean, you have customers that have these tremendous enterprise-class applications, running on vSphere in their data centers. They're built on top of that platform. They depend upon it for performance availability, everything else. With VMWare Cloud in AWS, we can migrate those applications with zero downtime, no refactoring, no additional costs, in a matter of weeks or months, as opposed to if you had to refactor everything, could take years and millions of dollars, right? So that Cloud migration use case I would say is the killer for us and that's, you know, exactly what Ben was referring to. >> John Furrier: We've got a special report on siliconangle.com called The Great Migration and it's about Cloud. Talk about this particular issue because this is like top of mind of everybody. How do you do it right if you're a VMWare customer, what do you pay attention to? What are some of the things that you learned and what are the things to watch out for? >> Ben Tanner: That's a great question. I think ultimately you have to listen to your customers. So for me, that sort of element community and then within IHS Market and then ultimately, their customers. So we cover like three broad sectors. Oil and gas, the energy division, we have transportation division and then we have our financial services division. So each one of those division's got a different risk appetite. So depending on that appetite, we'll very much govern how we take the approach of moving to the Cloud. We've done the classic lift and shift using tools like VMWare's HCX. We actually, as a kick the tires, we moved a thousand workloads in six weeks into VMC, which was kind of exciting. >> Mark Lohmeyer: Yeah, pretty impressive. >> We enjoyed that. And then in other areas we're looking at, well we don't want to take all that tentacle debt that lives in our data center with us, so can we do what we call a lift and fix approach, where we'll leverage sort of private Cloud ultimation tool and build over VMC to rapidly spin up new workloads there but without changing our operating model. And then that's one of the big things I call out about VMC, it allows you to get into that public Cloud space without having to drastically change how IT operates. And then you can start to shift to more of a public Cloud focus. So there's really that lift and shift, lift and fix, and then where we're developing new capabilities, or where there is definite business value, and that's the key thing, refactor of a Cloud native. So it's a spectrum. >> So you ultimately want to change your operating model- >> Ben Tanner: Absolutely. >> Just not today. >> Ben Tanner: Well no, I don't want to do it in a big bang. You know, that's very disruptive while we're doing that we're, you know, it takes our focus off away from delivering business value. So we're trying to find a way to do it in a more incremental manner. VMC's, VMWare Cloud Native is one of the things that's going to help us do that. >> John Furrier: Are you guys looking at Amazon's other services because you now, in AWS- >> Ben Tanner: Well we're heavy Amazon customers as it stands so we have a lot of Cloud Native Apps going out there. It was really interesting today, seeing where they're going with the HPC workloads, particularly where we're starting to look at ML and AI. We have a data late program that's at an AWS. So for our new developments, we're definitely embracing Cloud Native, but very much in the sort of hybrid Cloud methodology with the MC. >> John Furrier: Well Ben, I want to get your take on a meme that we've been kicking around all week around Cloud Native. The T, if we take the T out, which stands for trust, it's Cloud Naive. (laughter) So a lot of customers, they're trying, I think they're doing Cloud, they've got to factor into all these operational disruptions. >> Ben Tanner: Yep. >> You have staff issues, you have cost and inefficiencies that kick in. Disruption. Development choices. So where's the naivety, where's the native, savvy, where should people start thinking about when they start moving in the Cloud? >> Ben Tanner: It's a maturity conversation ultimately. I think if we look at, certainly within IHS Market, we've very much grown by acquisition. We have different sort of cultures within the firm. We have 650, 700 products, 700 different ways of doing things sometimes and they've all gone to the public Cloud at different rates and in different ways. So for us, it was assuming that we could do that in a manageable, controlled-cost, safely-governed way. And really understanding that, you know, you can't go out there as individual Dev teams and expect it all to be perfect. We need to start building almost a collabed community within the company and then starting to layer in governance. But again, that's if you say take the T out, trust. We within IT, we have to build up trust with our products teams because I think why they go to the Cloud is sometimes because IT hasn't been able to deliver on it. You know, it's customer's expectations. >> John Furrier: You can't move fast enough. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, we're never going to be able to compete with the likes of Amazon or VMWare in security and functionality and scalability. Why would we try to compete? Let's embrace that. Extend, enable it, and really try to give our customers a consistent, delightful experience. >> So Ben, where are you placing your bets? Obviously Cloud, Hybrid, those are two things. Any other places where you're really trying to focus? >> Ben Tanner: So I think that's interesting. Again, my job is to make life easy for my developers. So what do they need? And this is something that we're going through, again, internal transformation, starting to run IT more like a product management organization and actively listening and soliciting feedback and really delivering what they need. You know, we're getting a lot of talk around containers, what are our plays going to be in that space. Some of the development teams are on that. Some of them want to go and embrace the new stuff like Fargate and EKS and that's great as well, but ultimately, I want to get out of tickets and weight states and get out of the way of the developers. >> John Furrier: I want to ask you a question around developers, cause one of the trends we're seeing and we're kind of picking out of the announcements is when you look at the DevOps movement that started roughly around 2007-2008, '09 timeframe, that early wave of pioneers created infrastructure as code. >> Ben Tanner: Yeah. >> That essentially became, "I don't want to configure the software. Operating models like VMWare, make it easy." Things are just running under the covers. Now with the data modeling you're seeing, if you've got large scale infrastructure, you're seeing now all these data toolings. So there's almost a data as code kind of theme going on here where developers just want to access the data, they don't to have to get into the wrangling. >> Ben Tanner: I think that's where we're sort of seeing things like data late coming to the forefront. You know, again, IHS Market Information Company. How do we pool all that information together in a way that, you know, creates new business value, creates new ideas. You know, broad ease of access for our developers and our customers, but at the same time, how do we protect things like data sovereignty. If we've got PII data out there, you know, we have to think about that. Whether they're alter motive customers. You know, you've got different state legislation so again, it's how do we as the IT and sort of the develop community facilitate broad safe access to data. Data is a service. Yeah. >> John Furrier: Yeah. 100%. >> Absolutely. >> So Mark, as customers move to the Cloud and they want to change their operating model, what role is VMWare playing in terms of facilitating that? >> Mark Lohmeyer: Yeah, you know, I think essentially you said you wanted to make life as easy as possible for the developers, right? And I think we want to make life as easy as possible for Ben and IT so he can make it easy for developers. And I think we know one of the ways that we love to do that is, and the way I think about is, we want to provide him and customers like him the broadest, most powerful tool kit that they can choose from, right, as they're enabling their developers. If you think about VMWare Cloud and AWS, it can actually enable that, right? Because you have access to all of the VMWare tools and capabilities, not just your existing workloads, but also for modernized applications with things like Kubernetes and some of the capabilities we're bringing to bear there. So we provide all of those services in the VMWare environment, but then we also allow their IT teams and their development teams to also have access to all the Native AWS services and some of the data tools that they might want to leverage from AWS- >> So is it- >> All in a single environment. >> So you've got core VMWare, now you have pivotal- >> Mark Lohmeyer: That's right. >> For the developer angle and you've got all the security acquisitions you've made, not the least which is carbon black so that's the package that you're delivering to your customers. >> Mark Lohmeyer: Absolutely. Right. And we want to do all of that, obviously, as a service on top of AWS, right, bringing that same sort of simplicity of operations for all of those capabilities. >> John Furrier: Mark, talk about what's coming next for you guys at VMWare and the Cloud platform. Obviously, we saw that Outpost, Native Outpost, which is Amazon shipping, available now. >> Mark Lohmeyer: Yeah. >> 2020 we're going to see VMWare on AWS, VMWare Cloud and AWS roughly shipping behind it. So that's looking like good news too. Architectural shifts are happening, can you share any insight into what's next for you and your team? >> Mark Lohmeyer: Yeah, I mean, it's a really exciting time. I think, look at this point, I think the customer's have spoken, its a hybrid Cloud world, right? They want to have the flexibility to run apps across their own data centers, across public Clouds, across edge environments. It's a hybrid Cloud world. >> John Furrier: AWS agrees. >> Yeah, I mean, even AWS agrees. You know, as VMWare as a company, we're looking to really enable the most seamless, most consistent hybrid Cloud experience. Obviously, we're the standard in most enterprise customer's data centers today. With VMWare Cloud and AWS, we're bringing that capability to AWS. And then we're really excited, of course, about VMWare Cloud and AWS Outpost because we can now bring that same Cloud delivered model back, you know, on-prem and into edge environments, right? And so we think that full set of services, right, what you have in your data center today, what you can do on AWS with VMC and now back on-prem, it opens up a lot of possibilities for customers like IHS. >> John Furrier: And Chastity kind of hinted at it, well he talked specifically about networking- >> Mark Lohmeyer: Right. >> In context of 5G latency, different use cases around latency. So networking is going to be a big thing. >> Mark Lohmeyer: I mean networking, if you think about a hybrid Cloud world, right? I mean, networking is kind of at the heart of it, right? And if you look at technologies like NSX, right, that gives you a consistent software networking layer that can work across any hardware on-prem. Obviously, it's the heart of VMWare Cloud and AWS, also in Outpost, it's a really important construct that fundamentally enables things like the seamless migration of workloads between these different environments. >> John Furrier: On Open Source as well. Guys, thanks for coming on. Final word, your thoughts on the keynote, the presence here at AWS. What's your takeaway from the day one. >> Ben Tanner: I think for me for day one, it's really exciting to see the development in things like the HPCP's. How that's going to enable us as a customer to do more with things like AI and ML. I think, for me, Outpost is really fascinating. We were talking about this earlier, where we've got regulatory requirements, performance requirements. We can still deliver that consistent experience in the Cloud, in the data center. So those for me are going to be, potentially, really transformative. >> John Furrier: And this really highlights what we've been debating. I challenged Gelsinger, Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMWare in 2013 about hybrid being a halfway house to the public Cloud. He's like, "What are you talking about? It is the model." Pat if you're watching, you were right, I was wrong. I admit it. (laughter) But hybrid Cloud is certainly a visibility, but the Cloud as an operating model and what Chastity's saying and what Microsoft and other's are saying is, "Hey, the Cloud is the operating model, not the old way." So center of gravity is Cloud, but the on-premise for these specific things like governance, compliance, use cases. This is the new normal. This is very clear, no one debates this. >> John Furrier: Congratulations. Congratulations on your success, so say hello to Ragu and the team. >> Will do. >> John Furrier: Thanks for coming on. VMWare and custom momentum. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. AWS re:Invent. Be back with more coverage after the short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back everyone. Live CUBE coverage here in San Francisco, California for VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Dave 10 years continues, day one of three days of wall to wall coverage. Mark Lohmeyer, Senior Vice President, Cloud Platform Business Unit and general manager at the VMware, manage cloud for VMware. Great to see you again. >> Great to see you, yeah, thank you. >> So you got, you're managing all the VMware manage cloud on AWS and Dell EMC? >> Right. >> Which was a big part of today's keynote. Obviously a big part of your investments, so you know, you always look at someone's commitment to something. How they spend their resources and their time. So give us an update obviously a lot of resources on the VMware side. >> Mark: Right. >> To make this run, what customers want. Give us an update on what's going on. >> Yeah, yeah I mean so first of all VMware Cloud and AWS, I mean, we're really pleased with the momentum we're seeing for that in the marketplace. So, we compared what it looks like today versus a year ago. And we were talking about it, a year ago and we've increased the number of customers by 4x on the service. We've increased the numbers of VM's on the service by 9x. That's kind of interesting 'cause it shows you that you know, we're adding both new customers as well as existing customers are expanding their investment. So, that's great to see, right? And it's powered by a lot of the compelling Use Cases. You may have heard Pat or others talk about most notably, cloud migrations. You know from an investment perspective which is I think where you sort of started the question you know, significant investment from both VMware as well as AWS the end of the service. You know we say it's jointly engineered and that is absolutely the case. I mean we literally have hundreds of engineers that are optimizing the VMware software to be delivered as a service on top of the AWS infrastructure. >> And that's a lot just to get nuance on this point. Because in the press coverage, I've seen all the press coverage from the Microsoft and the Google. This is different than just Cloud Foundation because you're talking about something completely different. This is jointly engineered. These are specific, unique things. >> Yeah, I mean with the sort of distinction I would sort of articulate there is that in the case of VMware Cloud on AWS, it's a VMware managed, operated, supported, delivered service. Right, so it's our engineers that are pushing the bits into production in AWS. It's our engineers if there's an incident that deal with the you know, with the situation. You know, it's literally a service operated by us. In the case of what we're doing with Azure and GCP, you know first of all from a customer perspective what we heard them telling us is, I think many customers are using Azure, many customers are using GCP and they'd like to have the ability to have that same VMware consistent software stack on those clouds. But the operational model is different. So in those two cases there's a partner called CloudSimple. Who's a VCPP partner and they're taking our standard VMware Cloud Foundation software that customers use on Prem and they are operating and delivering that as a Cloud service on top of those Cloud platforms. >> Just to review so VMware Cloud on AWS and Outposts both your responsibility, there's two way street there? >> Yup. (laughing) >> Which is rare with Amazon usually it's a one way street. My words not yours. But so, and, so you manage both sides of that? Is that correct? >> Mark: Yeah, that's right, that's right. >> So you're happy to sell either one? >> Absolutely, yup. >> Right, and then the Dell EMC version is kind of the on Prem version of Outposts, if you will. Is that a fair characterization? >> Mark: Yeah, yeah, so. >> Without the public cloud. >> Yeah, I mean absolutely, I think one of the interesting things was you know, we've been in market now with the VMware Cloud on AWS for a couple years. And, you know it's going great but one of the things we've heard from customers was, "Hey, we sort of really like this VMware managed cloud model where you're taking all of the heavy lifting of worrying about the Lifecycle of the VMware software. Worrying about the you know upgrades to the hardware, you're taking that all off of our plate. But why can't we have that same cloud delivery model back on Prem?", right and so, that was the impetus for what we originally announced as Project Dimension and now we're launching this week as VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. >> So all the benefits go with the Dell infrastructure hardware? >> So, I got to ask you, so one are the attributes of those those solutions, is they're highly homogenous, right? And, Andy Jassy made a big deal about that same Control Plane, same Data Plane. >> Mark: Right. >> So my question is, help me square the circle with MultiCloud which is highly heterogeneous? (laughing) So, can I have my cake and eat it, too? Can I have this, you know unified vision of the world? This controlled, same compliance, government security, EDIx, management etc, and have all this heterogeneity? How does that? >> Yeah, so I think, I mean to me it starts from what the customer would like to do, right? And what we're seeing from customers is it's increasingly a MultiCloud world, right. That expands spans private cloud, public cloud and Ed. >> Dave: You're smiling when you say that. >> Mark: Yeah, now, now-- >> The chaos is an opportunity for VM. (laughing) >> Yeah, but it's a challenge for customers, right? And so, if you look at how VMware is trying to help there if you say sort of square the circle. I think that first piece is this idea of consistent operations, right. Then we have these management tools that you can use to consistently operate those environments, whether they're based on a VMware based infrastructure or whether they're based on a native cloud infrastructure. Right, so if you look at our cloud health platform for example, it's a great example where that service can help you under, get visibility to your cloud spend across different cloud platforms. Also B service platforms. It can help you reduce that spend over time. So that's sort of what we refer to as consistent operations. Right, which can span any cloud. You know what my team is responsible for is more in the consistent infrastructures base and that's really all about how do we deliver consistent compute network and storage service that spans on Prem, multiple public clouds and Edge. So that's really where we're bringing that same VMware Cloud Foundation stack to all those different environments. >> Mark, I want to get your thoughts on what Pat Gelsinger said on the keynote. He said, "modernize and migrate or migrate and modernize" he also mentioned live migrate as a big feature. >> Mark: Yes, yes. >> On the modernize and migrate and migrate then modernize, they basically pick one and people are doing both. >> Mark: Right, right, right. >> What's he mean by that give us some examples and then what's the impact to the customer? Is it just the behavior of the customer? >> Yeah, I mean, it varies a little bit based on what the customer's trying to accomplish. But you know the one thing I'll say is that, you know, historically it was a little bit tough to have that choice. Right, so you know the sort of the thought was, hey I have to like re-factor and re-platform everything upfront just to be able to get it to the public cloud. And then once it's there I can sort of start to modernize. I think in that can be a multi-year process, right? >> Yeah. >> I think one of the really interesting opportunities that we've opened up for customers with VMware Cloud on AWS is you don't necessarily have to re-factor everything just to be able to get to the public cloud. We could help them migrate to the public cloud very quickly without requiring any changes if they don't want to. And then when they're there, they can modernize at their own pace based on the needs of the business. All right, and so I think having that additional option is actually quite useful for customers that want to get to the cloud quickly and then from there begin to modernize. >> So two main paths with migration and modernize as the easiest one given the managed service. >> Yeah, yeah, and but you know that being said, I think also you see a set of customers that say "Look, sort of digital transformation and modernization is my primary goal." Right, and for them by enabling some of these things like Native Kupernetes as a service in vSphere and in VMware Cloud and AWS by enabling this AI and ML workloads with a Nivida partnership for that classic customers, they can also just start with the modernization piece, right? Directly on the-- >> So the migrate to modernize would be a lift in shift essentially and then modernize? >> Mark: Ah-hm. >> And that's what Amazon wants you to do? But, you're giving customers a choice, is what I'm-- >> Mark: We have, yeah no, I mean look at the end of the day I think both VMware and AWS believe strongly in understanding what customers are looking for and making sure we're delivering that value to them. And I think you know, this is one of the compelling new options that we've enabled for customers, I think with VMworld Cloud on AWS is that we could take a migration project that would have previously taken three years and we could do it in a few months. >> You know Mark I had a chance to talk to Carl Eschenbach two weeks ago before the show. He came in for an interview Sequoia Capital, Carl Eschenbach, former COO of VMware been there for years. He was part of the deal with AWS, graphing that deal. We were talking about the moment and time where your stock price started to move up this October 2016. That's right when the deal was announced. Since then the stock price has been up. For a lot of reasons, we've talked on theCUBE before. The question I have for you is, what have you learned? What surprises you from this relationship? Because one the clarity was easy, meet Cloud Air, no more. This is our cloud strategy. All on AWS and MultiCloud as it develops you certainly have had to clarify with customers. But now that you entered the managed service, what new things have popped up that might not have been on your radar? What did you expect? What are some surprises from this relationship from a customer behavior standpoint? >> Yeah, that's a real interesting question. So, I think you know in the early days we sort of had this concept of "Hey, let's enable the full VMware capabilities on AWS." And we were sort of talking about it as a tech, almost like a technical solution, right? And what, what we could enable. I think sort of what quickly became apparent is hey, sort of behind that technical approach there's actually some really compelling Use Cases here. And I think that, if I think back to two years ago, I don't think we fully anticipated how compelling this cloud migration Use Case would be. I mean I don't think we really realized internally within VMware how hard it was for customers before to do that. And, I think customers didn't realize sort of how much easier and faster and lower cost that we could make it for them with this type of service. So I think that one, although we were maybe talking about it a little bit in the early days. I think it surprised me at least at how sort of broad based the customer interest was in that type of capability. >> Any other broader market interest on things that were surprises or not surprises that are compelling? >> I mean, you know the other thing I wouldn't say it's a surprise per se, but I mean, I think the partnership with AWS has been fantastic. Right, I mean we sort of went into it, I think in the right way between Pat and Andy and focused on doing something meaningful together. The relationship has only gotten sort of deeper and deeper over time. And, one of the interesting things about it is that relationship spans not just engineering and product management and product strategy which is sort of my neck of the woods. But also the marketing organizations, the sales organizations, the support organizations. So it's, it's become I think a very deep partnership. We're able to speak to each other very openly and trying to solve together the, you know the problems that customers are putting in front of us. >> And what's with Outposts, what's the new update on Outposts? >> Yeah, yeah so you know no news on Outposts today obviously but we're working very closely with AWS to enable the VMware Cloud on AWS Outposts model second half of this year. And, the customer interest has just been fantastic, right. And in many ways it's basically the exact same value prop of VMC on AWS in terms-- >> In reverse. >> But, but in reverse and anywhere you want, right, at your door step, right, any Edge, any data center, so. >> I got to ask you, back to the AWS relationship. We were big fans of it always have been. Learned from both sides and believe in it. Having said that, EC2 is the bread and butter for Amazon despite it's hundreds and hundreds of services. That's where their revenue comes from, and compute, your compute business is you know, significant. So my question is, is it a zero some game long-term or when you look at the tam do you see all these other services that you can sell longer term providing you know, the growth engine for your respective companies? Or, does this whole you know, rising tide lift both boats, what are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I mean it's clearly rising tide lifts both boats. I mean, again I'll, I always bring it back to the customer right, 'cause that's the way I like to view the world and AWS-- >> And you've got some evidence now that's why I'm asking. >> Yeah and I mean what you're seeing is actually I mean if you take some of these customer examples. Let me give you one from the UK. So, Stagecoach. I don't know if you heard about these guys. But they're a major, so they provide transportation services in the UK, and other countries as well. So, they run a network of buses, trains and they're responsible for the transportation of three million commuters every day in the UK. So, they have this really mission critical application that they're building that is basically responsible for scheduling those buses and those trains and scheduling the conductors and the operators. So you can imagine this application is super mission critical for their business, right. And, they chose to run that application on VMware Cloud on AWS and one of the reasons they chose that is because we have a unique capability called stretch clustering. >> Sure. >> Which says "Hey, even if there's an issue in one AZ we can restart that application in a second AZ. So there's a really good reason for the customer to choose it. But now back to your question, right? If you think about the opportunity in that for both VM or in AWS, it's meaningful, right? You know, for us, we're selling the entire VMware Cloud on AWS service to that customer across those two AZ's for mission critical workload that's core to their business. For AWS, they're able to of course not only supply the infrastructure that we run on top of but also as that customer looks to do more interesting things they can attach an additional native AWS services, right? So, you know I think that's a great example where delivering value to the customer and if you focus on that the right things will kind of flow back to the companies that help make that possible. >> Good partnering helps you reduce friction and get to market faster. Thinking about the intense effort that both you know, Pat's described, Andy Jassy described, you've described in terms of that partnership, that deep engineering. Can you do multiples of those or is it that you don't because of the respect for the partnership or is it too intense and it's too resource intensive? How many of these types of partnerships can you actually have? >> Well I mean and I think Pat has said it pretty clearly, right? I mean AWS is our primary preferred partner, right. And, what we're doing with them is very unique, right? And it's something that we want to make sure that we have the right level of investment in and that we do an amazingly good job of, right. And I think they feel the same way. And so having that focus together between the two companies. I think is what, has allowed us to be you know, achieve some of the level of success we've had to date and we expect to do that going forward. >> Mark, final question for you. What's your objective this year in your business unit? What's your focus? What are some of the things that you're working on that people should know about? >> Yeah, so first of all. I had VMware Cloud VD but that's just to wrap that up I think the big thing we're focused on going forward is really this modernization kind of piece of the story. How do we enable Native Kupernetes in the service? How do we enable ML and AI workloads in this service? How do we do a better job of connecting to all of the AWS services? So, you're going to see a big kind of focus, there. Beyond VMware Cloud AWS, I mean we're really excited about bringing this VMC model back on Prem both with Dell and on top of AWS Outposts. I mean the customer interest has been, you know fantastic, right? And, you think about all the reasons that customers want to be able to run their applications, you know on Prem, data locality, latency, compliance, all sorts of really good reasons. We think that those services have really hit a sweet spot of that market. >> IT as a managed service, what an interesting idea, don't you think? (laughing) >> Mark: Yeah. >> Whole nother level same game, whole new ball game, right? >> Absolutely! >> Mark, thanks for sharing your insight. Congratulations on your success and we'll be following it. VMware Manage Solutions AWS certainly a big hit. Changed the game for the company and now they're bringing Dell EMC among other potential business model opportunities for customers. As Cloud 2.0 comes as theCUBE's coverage. Live at VMworld 2019, be right back with more from San Francisco after this short break. (bright music)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and Etico System partners. >> Welcome back everyone. You are watching day three of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World here in Sin City Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Stu Miniman. We have Varun Chhabra who is the Vice President Product Marketing Cloud Dell EMC, welcome back to theCUBE Varun. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Mark Lohmeyer SVG/PM of Cloud Platform VMware. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks great to be here. >> So before the cameras were rolling we were talking that it should be a rap song, VMC on Dell EMC. (laughing) Tell us about the news this week. >> Yeah sure. So maybe I can kick it off. So real excited this Monday to introduce the VMware Cloud on Dell EMC and you know, as I sort of think back to when we first started discussions together between the two companies, we really had this sort of this angle in mind which was how do we bring the simplicity, the agility and sort of the consumption economics of a public cloud model right, but with the control, the security, the enterprise class capabilities, you know performance that customers expect from an on-prem environment and how could VMware and Dell work together to really jointly engineer something that we think would be really special and achieve those goals, and based on feedback that we got from customers, we're really pleased at sort of the reaction to this, and we think that's really going to hit the sweet spot of kind of best of those both worlds. >> So Varun, Dell EMC's been in the private cloud market for a bit, actually it was somebody on the EMC side that, as far as I know, was credited with coming with that terminology so some of this isn't new. Give us what is new about this offering compared to what we've done in the past. >> Yeah. Great question Stu. So essentially what is really innovative about this is that this is taking the public cloud model to on-premises as Mark said. It's a fully managed service where Dell Technologies and VMware are working together behind the scenes to provide that public cloud like experience, the hands-off operations, the ability to provision resources using a cloud portal right and have it be installed for you and set up. Once it's set up, software patches, operating system updates, hardware updates, all of them are basically going to be managed for you. If there's any support issues, the VMware team will file a ticket for you. You don't even need to file a ticket, it will be managed for you. This issue will be resolved. You know we think that this will be a really transformative way for customers to consume cloud resources, and this is all about bringing that cloud model to the data center where there's so much data, that customers already have. >> All right. So Mark there were ripples in the industry, a couple of years ago when the VMware cloud on AWS was out. >> Right. You know some people may have like hey why wasn't it done on the Dell stuff first but the thing I want to ask is, what have you learned from that AWS engagement and how did that impact what you're doing now on the Dell EMC? >> Yeah it's a great question. So I think one thing, so we learn from our customers right and the feedback they give us? One of the things that they shared is look they really like the fact that we're taking all of that grunge work off the table for them right? I mean if you're an IT department and a customer you're looking at for how you can deliver more value to the business right? And patching our software, upgrading our software, being responsible for hardware issues, that's not adding value to the business right? Ensuring their delivery in the application SLA, ensuring the application is secure, helping reduce cost, those are adding tremendous value to the business right? So the fact that we're able to deliver to them a cloud service, allows them to sort of elevate the value that they can offer and so that was one key insight. We wanted to bring all of those benefits to VMware cloud on Dell EMC on-prem. The second thing I would say is just technically you know, it's a very different model to ship a customer software and hardware and say you manage it right? You're responsible for the SLA versus delivering a true cloud service right? It requires a very different way to run your engineering team, it requires this thing called service ownership right? That you're accountable for the SLA of your code running your production, you need to build out a site reliability engineering team, and it really requires a very close engineering relationship between everyone who's working together to deliver that integrated cloud solution. So we're taking all of those learnings and insights that we got from our experience in the public cloud, and now applying them with Dell to bring those same benefits to customers in the private cloud. >> One of the things that we've talked a lot on theCUBE about, in particular this week, is just how close the Dell VMware relationship seems. You have said Stu, and you really know your stuff, that this is the tightest you've ever seen it. And here you are talking about this jointly designed, engineered. Can you describe a little bit about sort of the culture of this partnership and how these two tech giants work together? >> Yeah I can take a stab at it (mumbles). Look this is not new to us. We have been working together for a long time. But I think as you saw on the Keeno stage with Jeff and Pat together, this is a new level of a relationship in terms of having our engineering teams work together, figuring out how to deliver the best customer experience right? We already see that when we made our announcement three weeks ago with VxRail and VMware cloud foundations, being able to manage the entire life cycle, right from the workload all the way down to the physical infrastructure using VMware cloud foundations. This is a natural extension of that model for us. We're taking some of the same engineering work, the tight integration, and then adding on another benefit of managing this for the customer and making things simpler for them. And you know we think this is just the start. We think there is so much more goodness we can uncover for our customers as part of this journey. >> Yeah I think it's great. The only thing I would add is you know, the analogy I like to use is sort of like weightlifting. This is a muscle that we've been building between VMware and Dell for many years now right? Delivering a full cloud service on top of Dell hardware, that's like bench-pressing 200 pounds right? (laughing) So if you just like had never worked out before and someone gave you 200 pounds to bench-press, you probably wouldn't be successful. Now the good news is we've been working together for a number of years now. We've been building that muscle together between the two companies right? VMware on VxRail, VMware cloud on VxRail, and so now we're taking this next step forward, hey maybe we're going from benching 150 to benching 200. We have the ability to get there right? And so in many ways, our ability to be successful at this is based on the fact that we have been working together so well for a number of years now and building on that. >> Okay so Varun, we look at these different solutions in the marketplace and the space and sometimes it's a little tough to differentiate them because you know, you look underneath the covers and you got a lot of hardware geeks you know? I'm one of them, I'm open the back of the cabinet and show me and I'm like oh I recognize that box and I do this but like say for example, if I go talk to Microsoft and I look at Andro Stack, they like don't really think about the Dell server underneath there and the partner they got to have, this is Azure, so when you think about the operating model, when you think about the consumption model, when you think about the applications, this is "Azure". What I've had a little bit of trouble, and I'm hoping you can help me explain is, I think it's a similar type of story but there is no Dell EMC public cloud. There's VMware in a couple of environments so is that the right model to be thinking of? I mean this is as a service, it's a consumption model but are the applications similar to what I had if I've built a stack with Dell and VMware or you know, give me the compare and contrast as to what I've done before and some of the other options out there. >> Great question and I think it's something a lot of customers ask us as well. Look I think this is a very unique offer compared to what we've seen in the market recently for a variety of reasons. But the first thing I'll start with saying is that customers today are already using VMware and LEMC for their existing workloads right? This is essentially the same platform so the tools that they use today vSphere, it's the extra migrate workloads, NSX, VSAN, they are going to be able to carry forward all the work they've done there on this platform. That's why it's no different from that perspective. So the learnings they have, the processes, the automation, the eco-system of back-up disaster recovery that they use today, they're going to be able to use later as well, with this as well so this is less disruptive for them. So that's the first thing. The second thing I'd say is you know, we think we have a unique advantage because we have a long heritage of working with customers in their data centers. Whether its VMware or Dell EMC or us combined together. Being able to manage the complexity, the thousands of variables in a data center that a customer has, where things are not just homogenous, everything is not standardized, it's very very different problem from talking about a homogenous cloud data center where everything is standardized, everything is built for automation. We think we have a unique capability to be able to do that, and not only from a day zero day one perspective, also from a support perspective. You know this is a fully managed service which means if things are you know, if something breaks, we may have to go down and actually go to the customers site and actually fix that. We have a support organization across VMware and Dell EMC already built today. Full scale. Every single country. Wherever people's data centers are. Again a different support model. We think this will be a journey for folks who don't have that built out, and finally, I think, I'm biased, but I think infrastructure matters. If you're going to take a bet on this platform for your edge locations, your retail locations, your thousands of retail locations, sure it's a fully managed service but you need to have the peace of mind that this is going to continue to work for you. Even in a fully managed scenario, it is disruptive if there's hardware failures. So VxRail is a platform that customers all around the world bet on. There's more than 4000 customers at VMware and Dell EMC have jointly driven success with so we think these are going to be unique factors that will create value for customers. >> Okay. So for the support model I understand. The question we've been talking the various solutions in the portfolio is the nirvana is that cloud operating model that I don't need to worry about what version it's running. Whether the latest security patch is in there because that's been taken care of for me. Are we close to that? Are we at that? How does that look? >> That's exactly the idea. That's exactly what we're going to deliver right? And that's powerful for the reasons you articulated. But even more than that I would say it's an amazing vehicle for us to deliver value and innovation to our customers right? You know, traditional model hey VMware developed software. It takes a year or two to develop. We deliver to the customer. They take another six months to a year to upgrade it, it's two to three years' latency between when an engineer has a good idea or a customer asks for something before they can reasonably get to take advantage of it in production. With this new cloud delivery model that we're building together, that latency shrinks down to potentially just weeks right? Because we are upgrading that service on a continuous basis. We can push those new innovations to our customers much more rapidly and they can immediately begin consuming them. Like literally those new features just show up in the service just like on your iPhone or whatever other service you might be using. Same model can now apply to the data center so its an incredibly powerful thing for our joint customers. It's also real exciting for our joint engineering teams right? You think about an engineer. They take pride in seeing the value of their work being used by customers and we can take that from two to three years, to two to three weeks. That's a tremendous thing. >> Real instant gratification. >> Yeah! >> Which makes for a happier employee, which makes for-- >> Time to innovate more right? >> All of that. >> You got it yeah. >> Great. Well Mark and Varun thank you so much for coming on the show. It was great having you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have much more of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World coming up in just a little bit. (digital music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage, CUBE Virtual's coverage, CUBE digital coverage, of AWS Summit, virtual online, Amazon Summit's normally in face-to-face all around the world, it's happening now online, follow the sun. Of course, we want to bring theCUBE coverage like we do at the events digitally, and we've got a great guest that usually comes on face-to-face, he's coming on virtual, Sanjay Poonen, the chief operating officer of VMware. Sanjay great to see you, thanks for coming in virtually, you look great. >> Hey, John thank you very much. Always a pleasure to talk to you. This is the new reality. We both happen to live very close to each other, me in Los Altos, you in Palo Alto, but here we are in this new mode of communication. But the good news is I think you guys at theCUBE were pioneering a lot of digital innovation, the AI platform, so hopefully it's not much of an adjustment for you guys to move digital. >> It's not really a pivot, just move the boat, put the sails up and sail into the next generation, which brings up really the conversation that we're seeing, which is this digital challenge, the virtual world, it's virtualization, Sanjay, it sounds like VMware. Virtualization spawned so much opportunity, it created Amazon, some say, I'd say. Virtualizing our world, life is now integrated, we're immersed into each other, physical and digital, you got edge computing, you got cloud native, this is now a clear path to customers that recognize with the pandemic challenges of at-scale, that they have to operate their business, reset, reinvent, and grow coming out of this pandemic. This has been a big story that we've been talking about and a lot of smart managers looking at projects saying, I'm doubling down on that, and I'm going to move the resources from this, the people and budget, to this new reality. This is a tailwind for the folks who were prepared, the ones that have the experience, the ones that did the work. theCUBE, thanks for the props, but VMware as well. Your thoughts and reaction to this new reality, because it has to be cloud native, otherwise it doesn't work, your thoughts. >> Yeah, I think, John, you're right on. We were very fortunate as a company to invent the term virtualization for an x86 architecture and the category 20 years ago when Diane founded this great company. And I would say you're right, the public cloud is the instantiation of virtualization at its sort of scale format and we're excited about this Amazon partnership, we'll talk more about that. This new world of doing everything virtual has taken the same concepts to whole new levels. We are partnering very closely with companies like Zoom, because a good part of this is being able to deliver video experiences in there, we'll talk about that if needed. Cloud native security, we announced an acquisition today in container security that's very important because we're making big moves in security, security's become very important. I would just say, John, the first thing that was very important to us as we began to shelter in place was the health of our employees. Ironically, if I go back to, in January I was in Davos, in fact some of your other folks who were on the show earlier, Matt Garman, Andy, we were all there in January. The crisis already started in China, but it wasn't on the world scene as much of a topic of discussion. Little did we know, three, four weeks later, fast forward to February things were moving so quickly. I remember a Friday late in February where we were just about to go the next week to Las Vegas for our in-person sales kickoffs. Thousands of people, we were going to do, I think, five or 6,000 people in Las Vegas and then another 3,000 in Barcelona, and then finally in Singapore. And it had not yet been categorized a pandemic. It was still under this early form of some worriable virus. We decided for the health and safety of our employees to turn the entire event that was going to happen on Monday to something virtual, and I was so proud of the VMware team to just basically pivot just over the weekend. To change our entire event, we'd been thinking about video snippets. We have to become in this sort of virtual, digital age a little bit like TV producers like yourself, turn something that's going to be one day sitting in front of an audience to something that's a lot shorter, quicker snippets, so we began that, and the next thing we began doing over the next several weeks while the shelter in place order started, was systematically, first off, tell our employees, listen, focus on your health, but if you're healthy, turn your attention to serving your customers. And we began to see, which we'll talk about hopefully in the context of the discussion, parts of our portfolio experience a tremendous amount of interest for a COVID-centered world. Our digital workplace solutions, endpoint security, SD-WAN, and that trifecta began to be something that we began to see story after story of customers, hospitals, schools, governments, retailers, pharmacies telling us, thank you, VMware, for helping us when we needed those solutions to better enable our people on the front lines. And all VMware's role, John, was to be a digital first responder to the first responder, and that gave tremendous amount of motivation to all of our employees into it. >> Yeah, and I think that's a great point. One of the things we've been talking about, and you guys have been aligned with this, you mentioned some of those points, is that as we work at home, it points out that digital and technology is now part of lifestyle. So we used to talk about consumerization of IT, or immersion with augmented reality and virtual reality, and then talk about the edge of the network as an endpoint, we are at the edge of the network, we're at home, so this highlights some of the things that are in demand, workspaces, VPN provisioning, these new tools, that some cases we've been hearing people that no one ever thought of having a forecast of 100% VPN penetration. Okay, you did the AirWatch deal way back when you first started, these are now fruits of those labors. So I got to ask you, as managers of your customer base are out there thinking, okay, I got to double down on the right growth strategy for this post-pandemic world, the smart managers are going to look at the technologies enabled for business outcome, so I have to ask you, innovation strategies are one thing, saying it, putting it place, but now more than ever, putting them in action is the mandate that we're hearing from customers. Okay I need an innovation strategy, and I got to put it into action fast. What do you say to those customers? What is VMware doing with AWS, with cloud, to make those innovation strategies not only plausible but actionable? >> That's a great question, John. We focused our energy, before even COVID started, as we prepared for this year, going into sales kickoffs and our fiscal year, around five priorities. Number one was enabling the world to be multicloud, private cloud and public cloud, and clearly our partnership here with Amazon is the best example of that and they are our preferred cloud partner. Secondly, building modern apps with microservices and cloud native, what we call app modernization. Thirdly, which is a key part to the multicloud, is building out the entire network stack, data center networking, the firewalls, the load bouncing in SD-WAN, so I'd call that cloud network. Number four, the modernization of workplace with an additional workspace solution, Workspace ONE. And five, intrinsic security from all aspects of security, network, endpoint, and cloud. So those five priorities were what we began to think through, organize our portfolio, we call them solution pillars, and for any of your viewers who're interested, there's a five-minute version of the VMware story around those five pillars that you can watch on YouTube that I did, you just search for Sanjay Poonen and five-minute story. But then COVID hit us, and we said, okay we got to take these strategies now and make them more actionable. Exactly your question, right? So a subset of that portfolio of five began to become more actionable, because it's pointless going and talking about stuff and it's like, hey, listen, guys, I'm a house on fire, I don't care about the curtains and all the wonderful art. You got to help me through this crisis. So a subset of that portfolio became kind of what was those, think about now your laptop at home, or your endpoint at home. People wanted, on top of their Zoom call, or surrounding their Zoom call, a virtual desktop managed easily, so we began to see Workspace ONE getting a lot of interest from our customers, especially the VDI part of that portfolio. Secondly, that laptop at home needed to be secured. Traditional, old, legacy AV solutions that've worked, enter Carbon Black, so Workspace ONE plus Carbon Black, one and two. Third, that laptop at home needs network acceleration, because we're dialoguing and, John, we don't want any latency. Enter SD-WAN. So the trifecta of Workspace ONE, Carbon Black and VeloCloud, that began to see even more interest and we began to hone in our portfolio around those three. So that's an example of where you have a general strategy, but then you apply it to take action in the midst of a crisis, and then I say, listen, that trifecta, let's just go and present what we can do, we call that the business continuity or business resilience part of our portfolio. We began to start talking to customers, and saying, here's our business continuity solution, here's what we could do to help you, and we targeted hospitals, schools, governments, pharmacies, retailers, the ones who're on the front line of this and said again, that line I said earlier, we want to be a digital first responder to you, you are the real first responder. Right before this call I got off a CIO call with the CIO of a major hospital in the northeast area. What gives me great joy, John, is the fact that we are serving them. Their beds are busting at the seam, in serving patients-- >> And ransomware's a huge problem you guys-- >> We're serving them. >> And great stuff there, Sanjay, I was just on a call this morning with a bunch of folks in the security industry, thought leaders, was in DC, some generals were there, some real thought leaders, trying to figure out security policy around biosecurity, COVID-19, and this invisible disruption, and they were equating it to like the World Wars. Big inflection point, and one of the generals said, in those times of crisis you need alliances. So I got to ask you, COVID-19 is impactful, it's going to have serious impact on the critical nature of it, like you said, the house is on fire, don't worry about the curtains. Alliances matter more than ever when you need to come together. You guys have an ecosystem, Amazon's got an ecosystem, this is going to be a really important test to the alliances out there. How do you view that as you look forward? You need the alliances to be successful, to compete and win in the new world as this invisible enemy, if you will, or disruptor happens, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I'll answer in a second, just for your viewers, I sneezed, okay? I've been on your show dozens of time, John, but in your live show, if I sneezed, you'd hear the loud noise. The good news in digital is I can mute myself when a sneeze is about to happen, and we're able to continue the conversation, so these are some side benefits of the digital part of it. But coming to your question on alliance, super important. Ecosystems are how the world run around, united we stand, divided we fall. We have made ecosystems, I've always used this phrase internally at VMware, sort of like Isaac Newton, we see clearly because we stand on the shoulders of giants. So VMware is always able to be bigger of a company if we stand on the shoulders of bigger giants. Who were those companies 20 years ago when Diane started the company? It was the hardware economy of Intel and then HP and Dell, at the time IBM, now Lenovo, Cisco, NetApp, DMC. Today, the new hardware companies Amazon, Azure, Google, whoever have you, we were very, I think, prescient, if you would, to think about that and build a strategic partnership with Amazon three or four years ago. I've mentioned on your show before, Andy's a close friend, he was a classmate over at Harvard Business School, Pat, myself, Ragoo, really got close to Andy and Matt Garman and Mike Clayville and several members of their teams, Teresa Carlson, and began to build a partnership that I think is one of the most incredible success stories of a partnership. And Dell's kind of been a really strong partner with us on private cloud, having now Amazon with public cloud has been seminal, we do regular meetings and build deep integration of, VMware Cloud and AWS is not some announcement two or three years ago. It's deep engineering between, Bask's now in a different role, but in his previous role, that and people like Mark Lohmeyer in our team. And that deep engineering allows us to know and tell customers this simple statement, which both VMware and Amazon reps tell their customers today, if you have a workload running on vSphere, and you want to move that to Amazon, the best place, the preferred place for that is VMware Cloud and Amazon. If you try to refactor that onto a native VC 2, it's a waste of time and money. So to have the entire army of VMware and Amazon telling customers that statement is a huge step, because it tells customers, we have 70 million virtual machines running on-prem. If customers are looking to move those workloads to Amazon, the best place for that VMware Cloud and AWS, and we have some credible customer case studies. Freddie Mac was at VMworld last year. IHS Markit was at VMworld last year talking about it. Those are two examples and many more started it, so we would like to have every VMware and Amazon customer that's thinking about VMware to look at this partnership as one of the best in the industry and say very similar to what Andy I think said on stage at the time of this announcement, it doesn't have to be now a trade-off between public and private cloud, you can get the best of both worlds. That's what we're trying to do here-- >> That's a great point, I want to get your thoughts on leadership, as you look at COVID-19, one of our tracks we're going to be promoting heavily on theCUBE.net and our sites, around how to manage through this crisis. Andy Jassy was quoted on the fireside chat, which is coming up here in North America, but I saw it yesterday in New Zealand time as I time shifted over there, it's a two-sided door versus a one-sided door. That was kind of his theme is you got to be able to go both ways. And I want to get your thoughts, because you might know what you're doing in certain contexts, but if you don't know where you're going, you got to adjust your tactics and strategies to match that, and there's and old expression, if you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there, okay? And so a lot of enterprise CXOs or CEOs have to start thinking about where they want to go with their business, this is the growth strategy. Then you got to understand which roads to take. Your thoughts on this? Obviously we've been thinking it's cloud native, but if I'm a decision maker, I want to make sure I have an architecture that's going to carry me forward to the future. I need to make sure that I know where I'm going, so I know what road I'm on. Versus not knowing where I'm going, and every road looks good. So your thoughts on leadership and what people should be thinking around knowing what their destination is, and then the roads to take? >> John, I think it's the most important question in this time. Great leaders are born through crisis, whether it's Winston Churchill, Charles de Gaulle, Roosevelt, any of the leaders since then, in any country, Mahatma Gandhi in India, the country I grew up, Nelson Mandela, MLK, all of these folks were born through crisis, sometimes severe crisis, they had to go to jail, they were born through wars. I would say, listen, similar to the people you talked about, yeah, there's elements of this crisis that similar to a World War, I was talking to my 80 year old father, he's doing well. I asked him, "When was the world like this?" He said, "Second World War." I don't think this crisis is going to last six years. It might be six or 12 months, but I really don't think it'll be six years. Even the health care professionals aren't. So what do we learn through this crisis? It's a test of our leadership, and leaders are made or broken during this time. I would just give a few guides to leaders, this is something tha, Andy's a great leader, Pat, myself, we all are thinking through ways by which we can exercise this. Think of Sully Sullenberger who landed that plane on the Hudson. Did he know when he flew that airbus, US Airways airbus, that few flock of birds were going to get in his engine, and that he was going to have to land this plane in the Hudson? No, but he was making decisions quickly, and what did he exude to his co-pilot and to the rest of staff, calmness and confidence and appropriate communication. And I think it's really important as leaders, first off, that we communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate to our employees. First, our obligation is first to our employees, our family first, and then of course to our company employees, all 30,000 at VMware, and I'm sure similarly Andy does it to his, whatever, 60, 70,000 at AWS. And then you want to be able to communicate to them authentically and with clarity. People are going to be reading between the lines of everything you say, so one of the things I've sought to do with my team, all the front office functions report to me, is do half an hour Zoom video conferences, in the time zone that's convenient to them, so Japan, China, India, Europe, in their time zone, so it's 10 o'clock my time because it's convenient to Japan, and it's just 10 minutes of me speaking of what I'm seeing in the world, empathizing with them but listening to them for 20 minutes. That is communication. Authentically and with clarity, and then turn your attention to your employees, because we're going stir crazy sitting at home, I get it. And we've got to abide by the ordinances with whatever country we're in, turn your attention to your customers. I've gotten to be actually more productive during this time in having more customer conference calls, video conference calls on Zoom or whatever platform with them, and I'm looking at this now as an opportunity to engage in a new way. I have to be better prepared, like I said, these are shorter conversations, they're not as long. Good news I don't have to all over the place, that's better for my family, better for the carbon emission of the world, and also probably for my life long term. And then the third thing I would say is pick one area that you can learn and improve. For me, the last few years, two, three years, it's been security. I wanted to get the company into security, as you saw today we've announced mobile, so I helped architect the acquisition of Carbon Black, very similar to kind of the moves I've made six years ago around AirWatch, very key part to all of our focus to getting more into security, and I made it a personal goal that this year, at the start of the year, before COVID, I was going to meet 1,000 CISOs, in the Fortune 1000 Global 2000. Okay, guess what, COVID happens, and quite frankly that goal's gotten a little easier, because it's much easier for me to meet a lot more people on Zoom video conferences. I could probably do five, 10 per day, and if there's 200 working days in a day, I can easily get there, if I average about five per day, and sometimes I'm meeting them in groups of 10, 20. >> So maybe we can get you on theCUBE more often too, 'cause you have access to a video camera. >> That is my growth mindset for this year. So pick a growth mindset area. Satya Nadella puts this pretty well, "Move from being a know-it-all to a learn-it-all." And that's the mindset, great company. Andy has that same philosophy for Amazon, I think the great leaders right now who are running these cloud companies have that growth mindset. Pick an area that you can grow in this time, and you will find ways to do it. You'll be able to learn online and then be able to teach in some fashion. So I think communicate effectively, authentically, turn your attention to serving your customers, and then pick some growth area that you can learn yourself, and then we will come out of this crisis collectively, individuals and as partners, like VMware and Amazon, and then collectively as a society, I believe we'll come out stronger. >> Awesome great stuff, great insight there, Sanjay. Really appreciate you sharing that leadership. Back to the more of technical questions around leadership is cloud native. It's clear that there's going to be a line in the sand, if you will, there's going to be a right side of history, people are going to have to be on the right side of history, and I believe it's cloud native. You're starting to see this emersion. You guys have some news, you just announced today, you acquired a Kubernetes security startup, around Kubernetes, obviously Kubernetes needs security, it's one of those key new enablers, disruptive enablers out there. Cloud native is a path that is a destination opportunity for people to think about, why that acquisition? Why that company? Why is VMware making this move? >> Yeah, we felt as we talked about our plans in security, backing up to things I talked about in my last few appearances on your show at VMworld, when we announced Carbon Black, was we felt the security industry was broken because there was too many point benders, and we figured there'd be three to five control points, network, endpoint, cloud, where we could play a much more pronounced role at moving a lot of these point benders, I describe this as not having to force our customers to go to a doctor and say I've got to eat 5,000 tablets to get healthy, you make it part of your diet, you make it part of the infrastructure. So how do we do that? With network security, we're off to the races, we're doing a lot more data center networking, firewall, load bouncing, SD-WAN. Really, reality is we can eat into a lot of the point benders there that I've just been, and quite frankly what's happened to us very gratifying in the network security area, you've seen the last few months, some firewall vendors are buying SD-WAN players, kind of following our strategy. That's a tremendous validation of the fact that the network security space is being disrupted. Okay, move to endpoint security, part of the reason we acquired Carbon Black was to unify the client side, Workspace ONE and Carbon Black should come together, and we're well under way in doing that, make Carbon Black agentless on the server side with vSphere, we're well on the way to that, you'll see that very soon. By the way both those things are something that the traditional endpoint players can't do. And then bring out new forms of workload. Servers that are virtualized by VMware is just one form of work. What are other workloads? AWS, the public clouds, and containers. Container's just another workload. And we've been looking at container security for a long time. What we didn't want to do was buy another static analysis player, another platform and replatform it. We felt that we could get great technology, we have incredible grandeur on container cell. It's sort of Red Hat and us, they're the only two companies who are doing Kubernetes scales. It's not any of these endpoint players who understand containers. So Kubernetes, VMware's got an incredible brand and relevance and knowledge there. The networking part of it, service mesh, which is kind of a key component also to this. We've been working with Google and others like Istio in service mesh, we got a lot of IP there that the traditional endpoint players, Symantec, McAfee, Trend, CrowdStrike, don't know either Kubernetes or service mesh well. We add now container security into this, we really distinguish ourselves further from the traditional endpoint players with bringing together, not just the endpoint platform that can do containers, but also Kubernetes service mesh. So why is that important? As people think about their future in containers, they'll want to do this at the runtime level, not at the static level. They'll want to do it at build time And they'll want to have it integrated with some of their networking capabilities like service mesh. Who better to think about that IP and that evolution than VMware, and now we bring, I think it's 12 to 14 people we're bringing in from this acquisition. Several of them in Israel, some of them here in Palo Alto, and they will build that platform into the tech that VMware has onto the Carbon Black cloud and we will deliver that this year. It's not going to be years from now. >> Did you guys talk about the-- >> Our capability, and then we can bring the best of Carbon Black, with Tanzu, service mesh, and even future innovation, like, for example, there's a big movement going around, this thing call open policy agent OPA, which is an open source effort around policy management. You should expect us to embrace that, there could be aspects of OPA that also play into the future of this container security movement, so I think this is a really great move for Patrick and his team, I'm very excited. Patrick is the CEO of Carbon Black and the leader of that security business unit, and he came to me and said, "Listen, one of the areas "we need to move in is container security "because it's the number one request I'm hearing "from our CESOs and customers." I said, "Go ahead Patrick. "Find out who are the best player you could acquire, "but you have to triangulate that strategy "with the Tanzu team and the NSX team, "and when you have a unified strategy what we should go, "we'll go an make the right acquisition." And I'm proud of what he was able to announce today. >> And I noticed you guys on the release didn't talk about the acquisition amount. Was it not material, was it a small amount? >> No, we don't disclose small, it's a tuck-in acquisition. You should think of this as really bringing us some tech and some talent, and being able to build that into the core of the platform of Carbon Black. Carbon Black was the real big move we made. Usually what we do, you saw this with AirWatch, right, anchor on a fairly big move. We paid I think 2.1 billion for Carbon Black, and then build and build and build on top of that, partner very heavily, we didn't talk about that. If there's time we could talk about it. We announced today a security alliance with top SIEM players, in what's called a sock alliance. Who's announced in there? Splunk, IBM QRadar, Google Chronicle, Sumo Logic, and Exabeam, five of the biggest SIEM players are embracing VMware in endpoint security, saying, Carbon Black is who we want to work with. Nobody else has that type of partnership, so build, partner, and then buy. But buy is always very carefully thought through, we're not one of these companies like CA of the past that just bought every company and then it becomes a graveyard of dead acquisition. Our view is we're very disciplined about how we think about acquisition. Acquisitions for us are often the last resort, because we'd prefer to build and partner. But sometimes for time-to-market reasons, we acquire, and when we acquire, it's thoughtful, it's well-organized within VMware, and we take care of our people, 'cause we want, I mean listen, why do acquisitions fail? Because the good people leave. So we're excited about this team, the team in Israel, and the team in Palo Alto, they come from Octarine. We're going to integrate them rapidly into the platform, and this is a good evidence of VMware investing more in security, and our Q3 earnings pulled, John, I said, sorry, we said that the security business was a billion dollar business at VMware already, primarily from network, but some from endpoint. This is evidence of us putting more fuel behind that fire. It's only been six, seven months and Patrick's made his first acquisition inside Carbon Black, so you're going to see us investing more in security, it's an important priority for the company, and I expect us to be a very prominent player in these three pillars, network security, endpoint security, endpoint is both client and the workload, and cloud. Network, endpoint, cloud, they are the three areas where we think there's lots of room for innovation in security. >> Well, we'll be watching, we'll be reporting and analyzing the moves. Great playbook, by the way. Love that organic partnering and then key acquisitions which you build around, it's a great playbook, I think it's very relevant for this time. The most important question I have to ask you, Sanjay, and this is a personal question, because you're the leader of VMware, I noticed that, we all know you're into music, you've been putting music online, kind of a virtual band. You've also hired a CUBE alumni, Victoria Verango from McAfee who also puts up music, you've got some musicians, but you kind of know how to do the digital moves there, so the question is, will the music at VMworld this year be virtual? >> Oh, man. Victoria is actually an even better musician than me. I'm excited about his marketing gifts, but I'm also excited to watch him. But yeah, you've heard him sing, he's got a voice that's somewhat similar to Sting, so we, just for fun, in our Diwali, which is an Indian celebration last year, Tom Corn, myself, and a wonderful lady named Divya, who's got a beautiful voice, had sung a song, which was off the soundtrack of the Bollywood movie, "Secret Superstar," and we just for fun decided to record that in our three separate homes, and put that out on YouTube. You can listen, it's just a two or three-minute run, and it kind of went a little bit viral. And I was thinking to myself, hey, if this is one way by which we can let the VMware community know that, hey, you know what, art conquers COVID-19, you can do music even socially distant, and bring out the spirit of VMware, which is community. So we might build on that idea, Victoria and I were talking about that last night and saying, hey, maybe we do a virtual music kind of concert of maybe 10 or 15 or 20 voices in the various different countries. Record piece of a song and music and put it out there. I think these are just ways by which we're having fun in a virtual setting where people get to see a different side of VMware where, and the intent here, we're all amateurs, John, we're not like great. There are going to be mistakes in this music. If you listen to that audio, it sounds a little tinny, 'cause we're recording it off our iPhone and our iPad microphone. But we'll do the best we can, the point is just to show the human spirit and to show that we care, and at the end of the day, see, the COVID-19 virus has no prejudice on color of skin, or nationality, or ethnicity. It's affecting the whole world. We all went into the tunnel at different times, we will come out of this tunnel together and we will be a stronger human fabric when we're done with this, We shall absolutely overcome. >> Sanjay, give us a quick update to end the segment on your thoughts around VMworld. It's one of the biggest events, we look forward to it. It's the only even left standing that theCUBE's been to every year of theCUBE's existence, we're looking forward to being part of theCUBE virtual. It's been announced it's virtual. What are some of the thinking going on at the highest levels within the VMware community around how you're going to handle VMworld this year? >> Listen, when we began to think about it, we had to obviously give our customers and folks enough notice, so we didn't want to just spring that sometime this summer. So we decided to think through it carefully. I asked Robin, our CMO, to talk to many of the other CMOs in the industry. Good news is all of these are friends of ours, Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Salesforce, Adobe, and even some smaller companies, IBM did theirs. And if they were in the first half of the year, they had to go virtual 'cause we're sheltered in place, and IBM did theirs, Okta did theirs, and we began to watch how they were doing this. We're kind of in the second half, because we were August, September, and we just sensed a lot of hesitancy from our customers that wanted to get on a plane to come here, and even if we got just 500, 1,000, a few thousand, it wasn't going to be the same and there would always be that sort of, even if we were getting back to that, some worry, so we figured we'd do something that might be semi-digital, and we may have some people that roam, but the bulk of it is going to be digital, and we changed the dates to be a little later. I think it's September 20th to 29th. Right now it's all public now, we announced that, and we're going to make it a great program. In some senses like we're becoming TV producer. I told our team we got to be like Disney or ESPN or whoever your favorite show is, YouTube, and produce a really good several-hour program that has got a different way in which digital content is provided, smaller snippets, very interesting speakers, great brand names, make the content clear, crisp and compelling. And if we do that, this will be, I don't know, maybe it's the new norm for some period of time, or it might be forever, I don't know. >> John: We're all learning. >> In the past we had huge conferences that were busting 50, 70, 100,000 and then after the dot-com era, those all shrunk, they're like smaller conferences, and now with advent of companies like Amazon and Salesforce, we have huge events that, like VMworld, are big events. We may move to a environment that's a lot more digital, I don't know what the future of in-presence physical conferences are, but we, like others, we're working with AWS in terms of their future with Reinvent, what Microsoft's doing with Ignite, what Google's doing with Next, what Salesforce's going to do with Dreamforce, all those four companies are good partners of ours. We'll study theirs, we'll work together as a community, the CMOs of all those companies, and we'll come together with something that's a very good digital experience for our customers, that's really what counts. Today I did a webinar with a partner. Typically when we did a briefing in our briefing center, 20 people came. There're 100 people attending this, I got a lot more participation in this QBR that I did with this SI partner, one of the top SIs in the world, in an online session with them, than would I have gotten if they'd all come to Palo Alto. That's goodness. Should we take the best of that world and some physical presence? Maybe in the future, we'll see how it goes. >> Content quality. You know, you know content. Content quality drives everything online, good engagement creates community, that's a nice flywheel. I think you guys will figure it out, you've got a lot of great minds there, and of course, theCUBE virtual will be helping out as we can, and we're rethinking things too-- >> We count on that, John-- >> We're going to be open minded to new ideas, and, hey, whatever's the best content we can deliver, whether it's CUBE, or with you guys, or whoever, we're looking forward to it. Sanjay, thanks for spending the time on this CUBE Keynote coverage of AWS Summit. Since it's digital we can do longer programs, we can do more diverse content. We got great customer practitioners coming up, talking about their journey, their innovation strategies. Sanjay Poonen, COO of VMware, thank you for taking your precious time out of your day today. >> Thank you, John, always a pleasure. >> Thank you. Okay, more CUBE, virtual CUBE digital coverage of AWS Summit 2020, theCUBE.net is we're streaming, and of course, tons of videos on innovation, DevOps, and more, scaling cloud, scaling on-premise hybrid cloud, and more. We got great interviews coming up, stay with us our all-day coverage. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office, in Boston Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to this breaking analysis where we try to provide you some insights on theCUBE. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Jim Kobielus who was up today, and Jim we were just off of the VMworld 2019. Big show, lot of energy, lot of announcements. I specifically want to focus on containers and the impact that containers are having on VMware, specifically the broader ecosystem and the industry at large. So, first of all, what was you take on VMworld 2019? >> Well, my take was that VMware is growing fast, and they're investing in the future, which is fairly clearly cloud and native computing on containers with Kubernetes and all that. But really that's the future and so, what VMware is doing is they're making significant bets that containers will rule the roost in cloud computing and application infrastructures going forward. But in fact virtual machines, VMs hypervisors are hotter than ever and that was well established last week by the fact that the core predominate announcement last week was a VMware Tanzu, which is not yet a production solution, but is in a limited preview, which is the new platform for coexistence of containers and vSphere. A container run time embedded in vSphere, so that customers can run containers in a highly-iso workloads, in a highly isolated VM environment. In other words, VMware is saying, we're saying to their customers, "You don't have to migrate away from VMs "until you're good and ready. "You can continue to run whatever containers "you build on vShpere, "but we more than encourage you to continue to run VMs "until you're good and ready "to migrate, if ever." >> All right. So, I want to come back and unpack that a little bit, but does your data, does your analysis, when you're talking to customers and the industry at large, is there any evidence from what you see that containers are hurting VMware's business? >> I don't get any sense that containers are hurting VMware's business. I get the strong sense that containers, they've just of course acquired Pivotal, a very additive to the revenue mix at VMware. And VMware, most of their announcements last week were in fact all around Kubernetes, and containers, and products that are very much for those customers who are going deep down the container road. >> So that was a setup question. >> You've got lots of products for them. >> So that was a setup question. So I have some data on this. >> Go ahead >> Right answer. So, I want to show you this. So, Alex, if you wouldn't mind bringing up that slide. And we shared this with you last week when we were prepping for VMworld. This is data from Enterprise Technology Research ETR, and they have a panel of 4500 end user customers that they go out and do spending surveys with them. So, what this shows is, this is container customers spending on VMware. So, you can see it goes back to early January. Now it's a little deceiving here. You see that big spike, but what it shows it that, A, that big spike is the number of shared customers. So, you really didn't have many customers back then that were doing both containers and VMware that ETR found. But as the N gets bigger, 186, 248, 257, 361, across those 461 customers, those are the shared customers in the green. And you can see that it's kind of a flat line. It's holding very well in the high 30's percent range, which is their sort of proprietary metric. So, there's absolutely no evidence, Jim, that containers, thus far anyway, are hurting VMware's business. Which of course was the narrative, containers are going to kill VMware, no evidence of that. But then why would they acquire Pivotal? Are they concerned about the future, what's your-- >> Well, they're concerned about cross selling their existing customer base who are primarily on V's, fearing the hypervisors, cross selling them on the new world of Kubernetes base products for cloud computing, and so forth and so on. In other words it's all about how do they grow their revenue base? VMware's been around for more than 20 years now. They rule the roost on the hypervisors. Where do they go from here, in terms of their product mix? Well, Kubernetes and beyond that, things like serverless will clearly be in the range of the things that they could add on. Their customers could add on to their existing deploys. I mean, look at Pivotal. Pivotal has a really strong Kubernetes distribution, which of course VMware co-developed with them. Pivotal also has a strong functions as a service backplane, the Pivotal function service for, serverless environments. So, this acquisition of Pivotal very much positions VMware to capitalize on those opportunities to sell those products when that market actually develops. But I see some evidence that virtual machines are going like gang busters in terms of customer deployments. Last week on theCUBE at VMworld, Mark Lohmeyer who's an SVP at a VMware for one of their cloud business unit, said that in the last year, for example, customers who are using a VMware cloud on AWS, VMware grew the customer base by 400% last year, and grew the number of VMs running in VMware, cloud, and AWS by 900%, which would imply that on average each customer more than doubled the number of VMs they're running on that particular cloud service. That means VMs are very much relevant now, and probably will be going forward. And why is that? That's a good question, we can debate that. >> Well, so the naysayers at VMworld in the audience were tweeting that, "Oh, I though we started Pivotal. "We launched Pivotal so that we didn't have to run VMs on, "or run containers on VMs, "so we could run them on bare metal." Are people running containers on virtual machines? >> Well, they are, yes. In fact, there's a broad range of industry initiatives, not just Tanzu at VMware, to do just that. To run containers on VMs. I mean, there is the KubeVirt, open source project over at CNCF, that's been going for a couple years now. But also, Google has Gvisor, Intel has the Kata containers initiative, I believe that there are a few others. Oh yeah, AWS with Firecracker, last year's reinvent. All this would imply, strongly indicate that these large cloud and tech vendors wouldn't be investing heavily into convergence of containers and VMs and hypervisors, if there weren't a strong demand from customers for hybrid environments where they're going to run both stacks as it were in parallel, why? Well, one of the strong advantages of VMs is workload isolation at the hardware level, which is something that typically container run times don't offer. For example, the workload isolation seems to be one of the strong features that VMware's touting for Tanzu going forward. >> So, VMware is--the centerpiece of VMware's strategy is obviously multicloud, Kubernetes as a lynch pin to enable running applications on different platforms. Will, in your opinion, and of course VMware is hard core enterprise, right? Will VMware, two things, will they be able to attract the developers, number one. And number two, will those developers build on top of VMware's platform or are they going to look to their cloud? >> That's a very important question. Last week at VMworld, I didn't get a sense that VMware has a strong developer story. I think that's a really open issue going forward for them. Why would a developer turn to VMware as their core solution provider when they don't offer a strong workbench for building these hybridized VM, /container/serverless applications that seem to be springing up all over? AWS and Microsoft and Google are much stronger in that area with their respective portfolios. >> So, I guess the obvious answer there is Pivotal is their answer to the developer quandary. >> Yes. >> And so, let's talk about that. So, Pivotal was struggling. I talked last week in my analysis, you saw the IPO price and then it dipped down, it never made it back up. Essentially the price that VMware paid the public shareholders for Pivotal was about half of it's initial IPO price, so, okay. So, the stock was struggling, the company didn't have the kind of momentum that, I think, that it wanted, so VMware picks it up. Can VMware fold in Pivotal, and use its go-to-market, and its largess to really prop up Pivotal and make it a leader? >> Well, possibly because Cloud Foundry, Pivotal Cloud Foundry could be the lynch pin of VMware's emerging developer story, if they position in that and really invest in the product in that regard. So yeah, in other words this could very much make VMware a go-to-vendor for the developers who are building the new generation of applications that present serverless functional interfaces, but will have containers under the cover, but also have VMs under the cover providing strong workload isolation in a multi-tenant environment. That would be the promise. >> Now, a couple things. You mentioned Microsoft, of course as you're in the clouding, and Google. The ETR data that I dug into when I wanted to understand, better understand multicloud. Who's got the multicloud momentum? Well, guess who has the most multicloud momentum? It's the cloud guys. Now, AWS doesn't specifically say they participate in multicloud. Certainly their marketing suggest that multicloud is for somebody else, that really they want to have uni-cloud. Whereas Google, and as you're kind of embracing multicloud and Kubernetes specifically, now of course AWS has a Kubernetes offering, but I suspect it's not something that they want to promote hard in the market place because it makes it easier for people to get off of AWS. Your thoughts on multicloud generally, but specifically Kubernetes, and containers as it relates to the big cloud providers. >> Yeah, well my thoughts on multicloud generally is that multicloud is the strategy of the second tier cloud vendors, obviously. If they can't dominate the entire space, at least they can maintain a strong, provide a strong connective tissue for the clouds that actually are deployed in their customer's environments. So, in other words, the Ciscos of the world, the VMwares of the world, IBM. In other words, these are not among the top tier of the public cloud players, hence where do they go to remain relevant? Well, they provide the connective tissue, and they provide the virtualized networking backbones, and they provide the AI ops that enables end-to-end automated monitoring management of the entire mesh. The whole notion of a mesh architecture is something that grew up with IBM and Google for lots of reasons, especially due to the fact that they themselves, as vendors, didn't dominate the public cloud. >> Well, so I agree with you. The only issue I would take is I think Microsoft is a leader in public cloud, but because it has a big On-Prem presence, it's in its best interest to push containers and Kubernetes, and so forth. But you're right about the others. Cisco doesn't have a public cloud, VMware doesn't have a public cloud, IBM has a public cloud but it's really small market share, and so it's in those companies, and Google is behind, but it's in those companies best interest really to promote multicloud, try to use it as a bull work against AWS, who's got an obviously awesome market momentum. The other thing that's interesting in the ETR data when I poke in there, it seems like there are more people looking at Google. Now maybe that's 'cause they have such strong strength in data and analytics, maybe it's 'cause they're looking for a hedge on AWS, but the spending data suggests that more and more people are kicking the tires, and more than kicking the tires on Google. Who of course is obviously behind Kubernetes and that container movement, and open source, your thoughts? >> Yeah, well, many ways, you have to think, that Google has developed the key pieces of the new stack for application development in the multicloud. Clearly they developed Kubernetes, its open source, and also they developed TensorFlow open sources, it's the predominant AI workbench essentially for the new generation of AI driven applications, which is everything. But also, if you look at Google developed Node JS for web applications and so forth. So really, Google now is the go-to-vendor for the new generation of open source application development, and increasingly DevOps in a multicloud environment, running over Istio meshes and so forth. So, I think that's, so, look at one of the announcements last weekend at VMworld. VMware and NVIDIA, their announcement of their collaboration, their joint offering to enable AI workloads, training workloads to run in GPUs in an optimal high performance fashion within a distributive of VMware cloud end-to-end. So really, I think VMware recognizes that the new workloads in the multicloud are predominately, increasingly AI workloads. And in order to, as the market goes towards those kinds of workloads, VMware very much recognizes they need to have a strong developer play, and they do with NVIDIA in a sense. Very much so because NVIDIA with the rapid framework and so forth, and NVIDIA being the predominant GPU vendor, very much is a very strategic partner for VMware as they're going forward, as they hope to line up the AI developers. But Google still is the vendor to beat as regards to AI developers of the world, in that regard, so-- >> So we're entering a world we sometimes call the post-virtual machine world. John Furrier is kind of tongue and cheek on a play on web tudauto. He calls it cloud tudauto, which is a world of multiple clouds. As I've said many times, I'm not sure multicloud is necessarily a coherent strategy yet as opposed to sort of a multi-vendor situation, Shadow IT, >> Yes. >> Lines on business, et cetera. But Jim, thanks very much-- >> Sure. >> For coming on and breaking down the container market, and VMworld 2019. It was great to see you. >> Likewise. >> All right, thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Jim Kobielus. We'll see you next time on theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone, we're here live in Las Vegas, for AWS re:Invent 2018. Our sixth year covering, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, it's been a wild ride, a lot going on, changing formations over the years, cloud is kickin' butt. >> Innovation, growth. >> Partnership with VMware's paying dividends. The ecosystem's evolving, startups are having opportunities. C-Chains is here. Tom Gillis, Senior Vice President and General Manager Networking and Security Business Unit at VMware is our next guest. Great to have you Tom, thanks for comin' on. >> Thanks gentlemen for havin' me. Yeah, it's good to be here. >> I'm glad you're on, because one of the things I'm always excited about is networking. If Stu Miniman were here, he'd be all over this conversation as well. It's hard, it's been part of the holy trinity of infrastructure, network, compute, storage, is never going away, but it's changing. There's new abstraction layers, there's new opportunities, you're now living and breathing and working on with VMWare, and they just, ways to make networking better. How's it going, what's the update, what's going on in networking, this Outpost deal is really interesting. You bring in worlds together, in a consistency-- >> You hit the nail on the head, right. We're bringing the worlds together. And I think, one of the things we're seeing, is that, in the enterprise, enterprise IT is looking at an increasingly heterogeneous data center environment. In in the next 12 months, you're going to have data center, where one rack is running EC2, and your data center, one rack is running vSphere, in your data center, another workload is running on Amazon, another one is running out of the Edge, so tying this all together creates some challenges, and this is a problem I think VMWare is uniquely suited to solve, networking is the fabric that connects all these disparate islands, and lets them talk to each other, lets them talk to each other in an orderly way, right? So, networking is about connectivity. It's also about policy enforcement, those are the two things we focus on with the intersects team at VMWare. >> And I'll say, as the landscape changes around how cloud impacts it, no perimeter, but networking still has to move packets from A to B, storage goes from now to then, so things are moving around. So networking is constant, straightforward and consistent, you got to move packets around. >> Yes, this is an important thing that I think people get confused on, is, when they understand, they look at the numbers that we're posting in networking, it's all software networking, right? We don't move packets from A to B. We do the policy administration. So, something has to move the packets from A to B. Cisco's switches, Arista's switches, there's a lot of really good networking hardware out there that's not going to go away any time soon. But I always say, use the right tool for the right job, so, a product like Cisco ACI is a fabric manager for a switch. And NSX is a policy layer, right. It's a software networking layer, and something we learned from the public cloud is that, you can automate network deployment using this software networking approach. How many networking people does it take to deploy a workload on AWS? >> Zero. >> Zero! You push a button and it goes. So we're giving you that same capability on-prem, within a stack, so it's automation that allows you to automatically spin up and deploy a network, and a policy to go with that network that makes sense. >> How does that impact the largest networking vendor on the planet, Cisco? How does that scenario, and how do you guys work together? Is it conflicting, is it together? >> As you pointed out, the electrons have to move from A to B and Cisco is really, really good at doing that, actually moving electrons, doing it cost effectively, efficiently, at scale, hard problem to do. So we work very closely with Cisco to make sure that, NSX and, you know, Cisco's products, are interoperable, that they work together, they solve different problems. The problem that we solve with NSX is the policy piece of it, web server can talk to app server, can talk to database. That's a very simple policy, but when you try to express that in IP addresses, that could be 5,000 firewall rules, and in NSX that's one rule, it's English language. So it's that simplicity of software networking, allows us to enforce policy, in a increasingly heterogeneous environment. >> Okay, so let's talk about Outpost a little bit. You're got two versions, if you will. You've got VMWare Cloud on AWS Outpost, and then your piece, which is the cloud foundation for EC2 on Outpost, so that's low-latency, it's consistent networking, talk about that piece of it, drill down, and some of the challenges that you had to solve. >> So, as you pointed out, we think Outpost is an industry-defining announcement, because it's really blurring the line between private and public cloud. And VMWare and Amazon have partnered very deeply to continue to make this just feel like one thing. And the piece of the puzzle that we bring to the table is infrastructure, so policy management, that connectivity, the web server talks to app server, who gets to talk to who, security policies, data management and protection policies, these are things that customers expect from us. It's very easy for us to deliver that in a VMWare, vSphere environment. I think you talked to my colleague Mark Lohmeyer, about VMC that's going to run on Outpost, that's a VMWare environment running on Amazon hardware. We also are introducing services that are going to provide VMWare capability in a native EC2 environment running on Outpost, that's what we call VMWare Cloud Foundation, or VCF for short. >> That's a particular instance of Outpost, there's also the Amazon version, how do you guys doing under the covers? Explain how it works from a VMWare standpoint on the premised piece? Talk about under the covers. >> As you pointed out, the trick is to get all these disparate hybrid, you know, clouds, these different kind of islands the capacity to talk to each other. And so we've worked very closely with Amazon team to take NSX networking, embed it into Outpost so it can talk seamlessly to enterprise networks of all shapes and sizes. That's a deep, important part of the relationship. And in addition to that, we're putting the VCF capability into EC2 to extend consistent policy enforcement, either in a vSphere environment, private thing that you're managing, the hybrid thing that maybe VMWare is managing, or that Amazon's managing, in any scenario we're going to give you one set of policy, one set of enforcement across all of this with VMWare Cloud Foundation, as well as the VMC on AWS. >> The software engineering and engineering in general for the data center, where there's hardware, software, the generations of developers have all had the same kind of language, just changes tone. Put a wrapper around it! Container, VMs, but now all the same principles. You want to make something smarter and better like an old mission critical work load, you put a wrapper around it, you kind of put software around it, and you can still run that and have new modern ways to add value to it, connector, whether it's a Micro service or an API, is a trend, the heterogeneous environment you just described, EC2 rack over here, isn't this kind of like a container for the data center? In a way? >> My view on this, and I think Amazon is really pioneering this front, the data center is becoming an appliance. When you think about it, like, every enterprise is buildin their own data center with their own pieces parts, that's nuts! It'd be like, every company building their own furniture. Yeah, you could do it, but like, really? Wouldn't you just rather buy this desk from a furniture maker? And so, Amazon has built an incredibly efficient, incredibly powerful, call it an appliance, this hardware infrastructure, that works, and it works at scale, and it's easy to use, and you can get it in two days, it ships with Amazon Prime, that is super compelling. And I think a huge amount of customers are going to look for that simplicity, that easy of use, what's necessary, you pointed this out, is an abstraction, software abstractions, that's what VMWare does. We create software abstractions to simplify the administration of all the bits and bytes, all the electrons that are flowing from A to B. We make that stuff easier to manage, with virtualization technology, that is an abstraction. >> Operational-wise, I think it is the very key point too. How do you get it to run? (chuckles) Operating the networks, operating the data center, operating systems that feed developers value and giving developers a programmable infrastructure, that's the vision of a software-defined data center. >> So, you talkin about, data centers as an appliance, I always thought Larry Ellison had it right. You develop all these appliances, like the iPhone, for enterprise, the problem was just Oracle, very narrow set of use-cases. I feel like, in a way, that I felt when the Warriors got K.D. Right? That's what Outpost to me, is like, it's almost like an unfair advantage-- >> Game over! >> It changing the game, here, so I, look, VMWare is a software company, you love anybody who will run your software on their hardware. >> But Even Duran is a great analogy. >> But you got to think, that the guys who been playing in this, you know, on-prem cloud market, are going to say, "Whoa, what do we do now? How do we respond," how do you think that affects some of your other partners? >> I think the magic of what Amazon is doing, is it's simplicity from A to Z, meaning, I have a work load, I need to deploy it, I push a button, two days later, this rack of hardware shows up at my data center, you plug it in, it talks to the cloud, it hooks itself, like, that's awesome, right? >> Patches itself, I don't have to worry about it. >> The thing they got to remember, is that data center is a means to an end, not an end in itself, right? What is a data center supposed to, it's powering software that powers the business, and companies are spending too much time building the machinery to power the software to power the business, and they want to focus on the software that's powering the business. >> Software is the world. >> Too much head count, involved in-- >> It's just a lot of work, a lot of energy, a lot of bandwidth, a lot of attention, a lot of arguing, a lot of debate. >> Move that head count into high-value activities. >> Exactly. >> That is really, I think, the key point. And again, it became its own cottage industry, for the wrong reason! >> Yeah, I feel like, working with Amazon, we can simplify how you build, deploy a data center. There's an unsung hero in this equation, that is Intel. Intel is just making these processors faster, stronger, and so, we see less and less need for highly-specialized general, specialized servers, we can go with a more generalized compute infrastructure that can cover a wider array of workloads, including networking. We're using Intel processors, and we're running 40 gigs of enterprise-grade networking-- >> I got to say Tom, that's a great to point out Intel, I was reading the news on my phone, just in between breaks here, the news articles, "Oh, Intel's new competition with ARM," what they don't understand is, this is a massively expanding addressable market. So it's not a winner-take-all, Intel doesn't have to get every deal. 'Cause there's specialism at the silicon-level now, to power these software abstractions. >> To your point too, a decade ago Paul Muret said, "We're going to run any workload, "any application, anywhere in the world, on VMWare," and a lot of people laughed. And said, "You're not going to move some of the SAP stuff, or Oracle stuff," it all went, I mean, except for very, very few. And that's to your point, it's a general purpose system now, that can pretty much do any mainstream commercial app. >> So with the power of an abstraction layer, now we can optimize, and I think we're still learning the details of what exactly Amazon's done to optimize, but we all know, it's powerful, right? And now, you can get that in Outpost. >> They've got some street cred! >> Yes, they've got some street cred, yes. >> Tom, great insight, thanks for coming on theCube. >> Gentlemen, thank you for having me, this is good-- >> Great stuff, Senior Vice President, Senior Executive at VMWare, breaking down the relationship with Amazon, it's like the Golden State Warriors getting Kevin Duran, they run the table, if they had Lebron, that'd be like, best analogy. We'll be back with more live coverage here at theCube cover of AWS Reinvented after this short break. 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(upbeat techno music) >> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018, brought to you by VMware and it's eco-system partners. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three of three days of coverage, VMworld 2018 here in Las Vegas, CUBE wall-to-wall coverage, 94 interviews, two sets, our ninth year covering VMworld, I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stuart Miniman on this segment, our next guest is Milin Desai, who is the Vice President and general manager of Cloud Services at VMware, formerly driving the NSX business, been there for multiple years, eight years. Great to see you, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So you've seen the evolution, you've been there, you've been in the boat. NSX, on a good path, doing really well, cloud services, very clear visibility on what strategy is. >> Mm-hmm. >> Private and public, hybrid multi-cloud, validated by the leader AWS and Andy Jassy, again for the second year. So pretty clear visibility at least on what the landscape looks like. >> Mm-hmm. Multiple clouds, software driving all the value. What's the cloud services piece that you're running now? Take a minute to explain what the landscape looks like, what's your charter, what are you trying to do, and what's happening with news and announcements? >> Sure, so about two years back we started on this journey around cloud services. And the premise was that, increasingly, there are two trends taking place which is; SaaS delivered experiences for on prem. So how can we deliver SaaS experiences on prem? As well as the partnership with, you know AWS for VMware cloud on AWS. So the two things started coming together both in terms of a product opportunity, which is VMware cloud AWS. But overall delivering our capabilities as SaaS, both hybrid as well as in the public clouds. So cloud services is a portfolio that delivers VMware services from management, to security, to operations, as SaaS services to the private cloud as well as to the public cloud. >> Tom Corn, the Senior Vice President of general security projects, was just on theCUBE today as well before you came on. He said, I asked him for a prediction and I'll ask you at the end too, for a 2019 prediction, but he said, "I see the conversation starting to be "security as a service someday," and he's kind of like connecting the dots a bit. But that proves the point it's a SAS business model. The services need to be consumable and scalable. This is a key design criteria and a product guiding principal right, for you guys? >> Yes, So increasingly SaaS makes it easy. The value benefits on that is I don't need to operate, it just works and I can get the value out of what we are delivering. And that's really what's driving the adoption of SaaS. It's easy to use, it gets you to outcomes quicker, and I don't need to worry about the management elements of that and so whether it's you take our updates to cloud management, we announced Cloud Assembly, Service Broker, and Code Stream, all delivered as SaaS to our hybrid infrastructure as well as if you want to deploy workloads in AWS or Azure, same thing. AppDefense, Tom's product, is delivered as a SaaS service. VMC on AWS is a managed SaaS service. So you're seeing that come together as VMware. The idea is can we bring that experience on prem as well as in the hybrid cloud? >> Yeah, Milin really interesting topic because often what gets lost when we're talking about multi cloud is what really matters, is applications and the data that sits on top of it. Maybe walk through a little bit, my on premises vs my SASified stuff vs the cloud native and PKS. How much of the business is driven from all of these pieces? >> So the majority of our business right now, is on premise software. Where customers are building and operating the infrastructure with our software. Now the first evolution into SAS was actually with our service providers, who are using the subscription model to deliver VMware as a service to their end customers. And then the second iteration of that is VMware cloud on AWS, which is growing really well. Both in terms of adoption as well of number of customers and now you are seeing the next evolution. So I would say from a numbers standpoint it's low, but in terms of number of customers adopting it, that number is high. So whether it's cloud operations with Wavefront or the whole automations suite that was launched, AppDefense. We are starting to see the shift to SAS but I would say the majority of our customers are on on prem software with VMware cloud foundation which includes NSX, and a visualized management portfolio which has been driving the majority of the revenue. >> I got to ask you about NSX relative to the cloud services because one of the things we've been pontificating and analyzing is how multi cloud is really going to work and we always try to compare and contrast to networking because Stu and I love networking and storage and some of the infrastructure stuff but if you go back into the evolution of TCPIP and what that did for the industry and Gelsinger likes to talk about this too, is NSX the kind of enabler that TCPIP was? TCP and then you had IP, created a lot of value, in inter-networking. What does the customer challenge look like when you're doing multi-cloud? It's not trivial it's hard to do. Is there a inter-operability framework, is it NSX? What could that be? >> Great question. I think as we go from private, to public, to the edge the virtual cloud network is what connects it all together and so definitely from within the data center with now the Velo Cloud acquisition the WAN, and then layering it with analytics and observability with visualized network insight, the portfolio of NSX allows you to connect these disparate data islands and operate very seamlessly, in this hybrid cloud world. Now the same construct applies, when you go native public cloud, where you can connect into AWS or an Azure and that's where, again the Velo Cloud acquisition alongside how NSX is extending its security policy, into AWS and Azure so that you can get the same security posture on prem, at the Edge, in VMC on AWS, with our VCP providers, as well as Native AWS and native Azure. So definitely NSX is that connective tissue, that's why we call it the Virtual Cloud Network, connects the Hybrid Cloud to the Multi Cloud. >> Seamlessly? >> Seamlessly. >> One of the feedbacks I get from users is, you know multi-cloud is challenging. There's that big elephant, how do I get my arms around all of the pieces where'll my data lives? Maybe give us an update there. I did have a chat with Joe Kinsella on theCUBE yesterday. So if CloudHealth Technologies fits into that overall cloud management piece, I'm sure it does, and you can give a little bit of guidance? I'd like to understand how that fits. >> Yes, you know we talked a lot about SAS and delivering VMware services as SAS to vSphere customers but there's this other world where people are going native AWS, native Azure, native GCP. The interesting thing I tell folks is it's very easy to consume cloud but as you start consuming it, you start dealing with tens of thousands of objects, across multiple projects, hundreds of projects across thousands of users. And when you start looking at the problem statements, same things, visibility, lack of visibility, resource management, you tend to over provision to in the cloud, right? By now you're paying by the drip so there's a definite impact to the bottom line. End to end observability and then configuration compliance. Think about this, you're operating at 10X in terms of changes, the chances of making a configuration mistake like leaving an S3 bucket open, are quite high. >> We've seen examples of that, too. >> Exactly, many a CIO have been fired because of that issue. So what we've been seeing with our customers is this has become a data problem, right? So the acquisition of CloudHealth allows us to essentially provide a platform that has that data, and then deliver to our customers in the native cloud, visibility, I say cost management so using reserved instances over on demand, resource management, hey your old provision on your elastic block storage we can reduce the storage capacity and save money. I can optimize RDS better. Sequel right sizing in Azure, so resource management becomes very interesting. Returns on a typical customer with CloudHealth are upwards of 60%. When you take that into consideration with real time security configuration, Secure State was just announced in beta, this week so real time security configuration. When that mistake happens with an S3 bucket being open? Sub 10 seconds we will notify the user that there is a mis-configuration in the cloud, please go fix it. >> Yeah, I'm curious, one of the other challenges is when I have, especially using lots of different SAS providers, public cloud, private cloud, data protection is a big challenge there. I know VMware has a lot of ecosystem partners, one of the hottest things over the couple years. Is that primarily an ecosystem play? How does VMware position there? >> Yeah so in the hybrid cloud world, like you said we have a very strong ecosystem, multiple vendors here exhibiting, there will be some default elements that we bring into vSAN to help kind of the basics of data, you know back up and management but we will definitely continue to partner with our ecosystem when it comes to an aggregate stack of data management but there will be pockets of just simple back up capabilities that you'll start seeing in vSAN, I think we announced the beta of that this week. >> Talk about your organization, do the general managers, do you have a profit loss responsibility so do you have revenue? >> Yes. >> Talk about the team, how you guys are set up. How big is the team? What's the focus? >> Our team, there's two elements to my team. One is my team drives cloud service across VMware so there are folks developing services themselves. The size of the team is now 70 strong across product, marketing and engineering. And then I also work with my counterparts like Mark Lohmeyer, AJ Singh who are building services on our common platform, right? And it's an aggregate to the customer, they come to cloud.vmware.com they federate their enterprise identity, they log in, they see our catalog. It's like a Netflix-like catalog. You can subscribe to it, you get a common experience in terms of billing and essentially start using the services. So it's not only what my team builds but an aggregate what VMware is building and offering to our end users. >> And what go to market do you have? Which products are you doing that go to market for? >> It's all of our SAS based cloud services. We collectively drive the go to market for that as a team working with our corporate marketing team. >> Awesome. >> Yep. >> So that would be a combination of VMware on AWS, AppDefense, now Secure State, Wavefront, and very soon CloudHealth. >> Yeah, a lot of pressure. (laughing) >> Do the SAS product share, do they live in like the AWS marketplace, IBM, you know DOC or what? Where can they get all of them? >> Today you go to cloud.vmare.com and subscribe to them. Certain offers are starting to get into AWS Marketplace, so CloudHealth is actually in the AWS marketplace. >> Sure, sure. >> And we are looking at Wavefront, which is a hidden jewel in our portfolio is also we are thinking about how can get it into the respective marketplaces of Azure, GCP, and others. But today if you want to access any of these services, you simply go and trial it by just going to our website and starting a trial. >> So they've given you all the new stuff, make it happen. AWS, VMware, AWS, vice versa. RDS on premises, you doing that as well? >> Yes. RDS on vSphere, since the announce we've had phenomenal conversations over here. >> Yeah, it's really exciting, I think people don't understand how big this is. >> John, I had a phenomenal conversation with Yanbing and Christos from the storage and availability business who just really broke down how all of that worked in detail. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> The customer interest is high. Someone asked me, why RDS? And they said it's such a hard problem and that was my point exactly, there is such a pain when it comes to managing databases and just like everything else, we started off the conversation, customers want a managed service. They don't want to deal with the intricacies of managing databases, they just want the outcomes from how they access databases. Amazon has solved it very elegantly with RDS, it's one of their most popular services. Why not bring it on prem? So that's been a great engineering partnership we are driving with them, and I'm really excited to bring it to market, shortly. >> Well we're looking forward to keeping in touch, we wanted to actually follow up with you on that. It's a story we're going to be following, certainly developing, it's big news, we love it. Thanks for coming on and spending the time. I got to get you to put a prediction out there for 2019. What do you see happening in 2019 that we're going to be talking about next year at VMworld? Personal prediction, could be a VMware prediction. You've seen a lot of what's going on with NSX, you see what's going on in the big picture, wholistically what is the prediction for 2019? >> It might be a boring prediction, but I fundamentally believe this notion of hybrid being bi-directional in nature. I think you'll see more of that. Even Google announced GKE on vSphere, as an example. So I think you will see more of that come through and it won't be a one way destination conversation that we keep having. And you will see VMware truly be a multicloud company. It won't matter if you're deploying the application in the native cloud, or in a vSphere based cloud. We will help the customer where they land the application. My firm belief is next year when we are here, we'll be talking about stories about how we are helping scale customers in Azure and AWS and GCP on one end, and about how we brought cloud on prem with services like RDS. >> Final question, I'm going to put you on the spot. What do you think is the biggest disruptive enabler for the next 10 years in this bi-directional multi cloud world? Can you point to one this that says, that's going to be the disruptive enabler for the next 10 to 20 years? Is there something out there you can point to, trend, technology, the standard? >> So the way I think about the world is a little bit differently in terms of I truly believe that we are getting inundated by data. I'm not talking about the data that you store in terms of running your business but in terms of the metadata that you run your operations and your infrastructure with. And I believe that the layer that will control that portion, the metadata of infrastructure and applications, we have not even begun to understand where that goes and then you apply AI and ML techniques to that? The idea of, I'll throw a term around here, self driving data centers and self optimizing applications I get really excited but it all begins with that data layer. And we are starting to put the beginning signs with CloudHealth, our private cloud assets to start that process. I'm really excited about how AI/ML meets that data layer to achieve those outcomes. >> It automates IT operations, sounds like automation's coming. Milin, thanks for coming on. Milin Desai, he's the vice president general manager of VMware's cloud services. The hottest area, it's emerging, it's got a lot of attention. We'll be following it, of course, on siliconANGLE and Wikibon and theCUBE. We're day three coverage here in the broadcast booth in Las Vegas in the VM village. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more after this short break. (upbeat techno music)