>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is the CUBE Conversation. >> Hello everybody, welcome to this special CXO Series that I've been running over the past couple weeks, my name is Dave Vellante and what I've been doing is bringing in executives from around the industry to try to better understand how they're dealing with this COVID crisis, what some of their fundamental communications principles are, and I'm really pleased to invite in Sri Srinivasan, who's the Senior Vice President and GM of Cisco Collaborations. Sri, great to see you again. It seems like just a long time ago actually, but it was just January that we were in Barcelona together, wow, a lot has changed. >> A lot has changed, Dave. Dave, thanks for having me on the show, it's always a pleasure to see you and I'm so happy to see you safe and sound today. >> Yeah, ditto, we're all in this together, as they say so I want to go back to, I mean we were in January we were getting clenches of this thing. We were definitely a little bit worried but not really fully grasping the impact. At what point did you kind of realize that you were going to have to adjust, and how did you shift your priorities as a leader? >> Yeah, so, Dave we started seeing this right out of the Chinese New Year, coming out of the Chinese New Year, on February 11th, if my memory serves me right. Users out of China started increasing, connecting to their global sites by multiples. Like, they went up as much as 22 times, on the night of February 11th and right off the bat we started seeing it expanding to South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, and towards the end of February, we started seeing it going to Europe in terms of expanded volumes where people working from home. Europe has expanded nearly four times for us, Asia pack has expanded nearly three to four times in terms of total usage and from the second week of March, it's US, our biggest market, which has more than doubled and as you may have heard, this past month in March, we served 324 million attendees on our meeting platform. We provide a whole slew of collaboration capability set. The fundamental principle for us that we apply is, provide customers with business continuity, while keeping their employees and their families safe. That is the fundamental principle we apply and one of my engineers said it really well. He said, "for every WebEx engineer-hour spent, "we now keep people safe for 14 thousand hours, "or 583 days". That is the amount of time through virtual capability set we're able to bring people together safely and continue their businesses forward as is nearly normal. >> I mean, the numbers are unbelievable. Chuck Robbins, over a month ago, said you guys held, and this is early March, 3.2 million meetings and 5.5 billion minutes, and the numbers have just gone up from then. Guys, I wonder if you could bring up the chart, I want to set up this conversation and so, we along with our partner ETR, we're one of the first to report sort of the impact of COVID on IT Budgets and what this chart is showing is that, that gray bar says 35% of those CIO's that we talked to said they don't expect any change in spending for 2020. >> Sri: Mhm. >> Dave: The green side over 20% said they expect to spend more and then you can see the big red. So overall, we've taken the overall forecast at the beginning of the year was plus 4% was kind of the consensus for IT spend. We're now down to minus 4%. The point though is that it would be a lot worse Sri, were it not for that green, which is being driven by the work from home offset, and it's not just collaborations tools, its networking, its security, its VPN, it's all the infrastructure around that so I wonder if you could comment and add a little bit of color to what you're seeing in the space. >> I think we're seeing immense expansion of work from home capabilities. Work from home is new for so many people, like for people like me it's the norm but there's so many people who are coming into it cold for the very first time, it can be daunting and that requires investments from organizations, I think CIOs IT infrastructure heads are working to make sure they provide the best secure collaboration canvas for people to work in from home, understanding the challenges of last mile excellence, security challenges and things of that sort so there is a ton of investment going on, in speeding up that investment and I see something coming out of this, which is recognition that organizations are going to have to fix and modernize their digital infrastructure. Why is that important? I think environmental sustainability has something called LEED Certification. Very similar to that work from home is going to have some type of certification that says, an organization is ready for this type of a mass upheaval moment where their infrastructures keep their businesses alive, kicking and thriving through any situation and I think what we have seen is many organizations struggle getting to that first step. Now, technology allows them to move very fast these days but no organization wants to struggle through it in the future, whether it's public sector or commercial enterprise, it's one and the same. >> I think that's a great point, one of the things I wanted to ask you was about some of the things that you've learned and maybe some of the things that are going to be permanent and I think that, people didn't expect this obviously and so do you feel as though that organizations will kind of rethink and that portions of this will become permanent, maybe they'll sub-optimize, in the near-term profitability and try to optimize for business resilience and the flexibility to do things like work from home, your thoughts. >> So Dave, I do see some things becoming permanent, right? Do I expect the volumes of collaboration to go down? No, it's never going to go back to the same level. The world as we know it is going to change forever. We are going to have a Post-COVID era and that's going to be changed for the better. There's a number of employees who are being skeptical, reticent to working from home, who are suddenly going to say, work from home thing is not so bad after all so you're going to have that moment for sure and then you're going to also have a set of employers who are going to look at a much wider pool of applicants that are cross timezone, geography, language barriers, it's going to help an organization increase their diversity and inclusiveness ocean, making their products and services much better so I think we are opening up the surface area for innovation as a result and you will see a lot of the work from home technologies get better and better, we're being forced to be better because we now have to be relatable, discernible easy to a new class of worker that has never seen these technologies and it is across all kinds of barriers that technology has to adhere itself to so I do see a lot of goodness coming in and you know what, at the end of the day, it's really good for the environment too >> I want to ask you how you're supporting customers. The data partner that I mentioned ETR, the other day I sat in one of their CIO Roundtables and it's a private conversation with (mumbles) and CIOs and they were asking them like, who's helping you through this and who's not and they mentioned, for instance, back in the 2009 timeframe, there was one company they won't mention. It was doing audits right after the crisis. That was not a cool thing but I got to give Cisco some props it came up that they really were helping in three areas and one of the CIOs just really mentioned this and called it out. He said, collaboration tools, network, we're a Cisco customer so we're relying more on the network and then the security piece so specifically how are you supporting your customers in this crisis? >> So, towards the end of February, what we did is we opened up our collaboration technology and Chuck said something very profound to me. He basically said, "let's make sure we do right by our customers "and keep them safe through this exercise." What we came out with was a set of free offers. We expanded (mumbles) free offer by providing unlimited meeting time, up to a hundred participants toll dial-in into our meetings infrastructure in 52 countries. We didn't basically just say, hey, only in countries afflicted by the virus, we basically made it as global as we could make it possible and then we provided enterprise trials through our partner routes to market that is an enterprise could sign up for a 90-day thing, no strings attached. Just take on the collaboration platform and whether it's calling, meetings, our device infrastructure and just take advantage of it and in a secure fashion using our security portfolio using extensions of our network portfolio and just continue to operate so we've added close to north of 15 million users through our free offers to date that (mumbles) >> Wow. >> and no strings attached. We're not asking for a credit card or a contract at the end of it, if you like it, and we come out at the other end of it, we are happy that they're safe and if they stay a long-term customer of ours, we are happy about that too. >> I mean, that's awesome. We saw recently a lot of talk about big tech and a lot of attacks on big tech and you're seeing big tech really step up, so thank you for that. You know us. We're not gotcha media, but it's I feel it's really important to ask you this. Zoom has had some clear issues with security. Eric Yuan, was instrumental in developing WebEx so what assurances can you give (Sri coughs) your customers and our audience that you're not subjected to similar security gaps and flaws? >> So let's talk about our security principles, right? Our security principles are very clear, we are open and transparent about the issues we face, the investments we make and we will be very open in terms of our posture. Secondly, we will never rent or sell customers data. Thirdly, we have a growth mindset around security. It's a differentiator. You never get complacent about security, you keep on investing in it and to be honest with you, WebEx has come a very long way since some of the comments that were made in the press by some of our competitors. circa 2012 WebEx versus now there's so much innovation that has happened Dave. We've had over 100 major software updates so I would rather have our competitors focus on their issues rather than, give us kudos in public. Our promise to our customers is to be open, transparent and continuously invest in the space because the moment you take your eyes off it, you've opened yourself up for a set of attacks so we're not going to ever say we are fully secure. You just have to continually invest in the growing threat posture world we live in today. >> So I want to follow up on that because I mean, I'm not a security expert, but I've interviewed enough people to know that they will tell you, you can't just bolt on security, you got to build it in and it's a hard thing to do. Some of your security pros Gee Rittenhouse, TK Keanini would definitely second this so, >> Yeah. >> How, you're saying you've spent a lot of time obviously designing in and I'm inferring not bolting on so I wonder if you could add some color to the sort of types of things that you've done to really, assure your customers that you're secure. >> Yeah, so I think security is in the DNA of Cisco, pun intended in many ways. We pride ourselves in our craft and to be honest with you, security starts at the time of design for us and it's not a checkbox exercise at the end of the ship cycle. You build for security. You build for privacy and compliance and you build with one simple rule. It's your customers data, we are custodians and we need to be protectors of it all the way through. We do not sacrifice experience for security. We never will. We build high-grade experiences but we never give up on security capability set and whether it's free, whether it's premium, whether it's paid. We have the same levels of security, yes, we do have additional security add ons and finally, we have a culture where there are groups within Cisco that continually test us. They don't report to me, they report to chuck and the board and they pretty much are continuously measuring our threat posture. These are world class organizations that keep you on your toes and I'm so thankful for that. It helps our customers safe, it helps us be better. It helps us stay current with the threat postures and this is years of investment. This is not something you can do in 90 days or 30 days. You'd be doing lip service to it. This is something you've got to do, critical, intentional, deliberate investments that pay off in the long-term. >> Yeah, and things like penetration testing, it's not a one shot deal, you got to do it on an ongoing basis. I want to come back to productivity. There are some organizations that are concerned they're struggling a little bit with productivity, particularly with the work from home. What advice would you give to organizations in terms of being able to maintain that productivity? They might take a little bit of hit but what would you tell them? >> I think change is difficult. Change is not easy. I'll take my own story here. Dave, two years back when I joined Cisco work from home was a alien culture to me based on where I came from, for the first month I did struggle. I had my questions, I had my trepidations of is this really going to work? Am I going to be able to run thousands of engineers, multibillion dollar business from home or while traveling on a plane because we have so many development centers across the globe and I'm a remote worker. I really saw this as opening up new horizons for me starting the first month. I took it on with gusto so I think my guidance to organizations is help end users deal with that change. If you force it down their throats, it's not going to work. You've got to understand their pains, you've going to make it more pleasing. You've got to introduce things like a digital water cooler talk, you've got to make it easy on them, you've got to talk about improvements in a remote-work setting like providing them with a set of accessories that make it easier for you to work from home. One of the core principles we have and i espouse within my organization is by working from home, you're intruding into your family's space. I think it's so important to make sure you let your family in on your work and when kids walk into the door, today, when we work at Cisco, we actually share our family and we share our joy with the wider teams and we are so proud of such culture so be very open and make sure that you understand that you're intruding into somebody else's house when you're working from home. >> Yeah, we have dogs barking, we have kids playing games and crawling all over us, that's great. one of the... >> The dogs barking we have solved we have an AI technology that brings it down. >> Mutes the barking. That's good, I need one. >> Absolutely. >> So one of my big takeaways and you really underscored it here is we're not going back to 2019. The digital transformation that we talk about and that frankly many give lip service (mumbles) but it is now going to be accelerated and it's ironic, we're starting a new decade but this digital transformation is going to be accelerated and collaboration is going to be a key underpinning so I'll ask you to give us some final thoughts, will you please? >> Yeah, I think, people to people collaboration is so important in this day and age. As such, industry has been changing from a task-based hierarchy driven world to a group-outcome based synergistic, a bring people along type culture and that brings people along type cultures now, thanks to collaboration technology, becoming independent of timezone, you don't have to worry about language barriers anymore or cultural boundaries. Think of the type of ideation you can do by bringing people across the world together with a low carbon footprint and what this time has shown us is that businesses can still continue to operate and operate really well when you bring people together using these virtual technologies and capability sets. You're saving people some time by having them work from home like you don't have to travel 30 and 40 minutes to get to work. You're just doing doing your thing from wherever you are and that saves so much in cost, in capability sets and the concept of hoteliering and open spaces in different organizations is only going to sprout even further because not everybody is going to have a home office, have an office, a set office, in within the enterprise CEOs are going to see that as a cost saving opportunity that they can funnel back into the growth of the organization. Right? So I think it's a plethora of opportunity in front of us and that these technologies are going to get monumentally better in the months to come. >> We're definitely entering a new chapter. Sri, thanks so much for sharing your insights and some of your leadership principles and thanks to Cisco, for all that you guys are doing some of the pro bono work. I know some of the volunteerism that Chuck has talked about. Really appreciate your time. >> Thanks Dave. Always a pleasure, stay safe. >> And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from San Francisco it's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2019. Brought to you by Forescout. >> Hey welcome back everybody Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're at the RSA Conference in Moscone in San Francisco, they finally got the conversion done it looks beautiful, it's keeping the atmospheric river out (laughs) it didn't do that last week, but that's a different story for another day. We're excited to have our very next guest he's Joe Cardamone, he's the Senior Information & Security Analyst and North America Privacy Officer for Haworth. Joe great to meet you. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> So for the people that don't know Haworth, give us kind of the quick overview on Haworth. >> Well Haworth is a global leader in commercial office interiors. They create seating, desks, dynamic work spaces, raise floors and movable walls. >> Okay, so really outfitting beyond the shell when people move into a space. >> That's correct. >> So what are your security, that sounds like, like mobile walls and desks and the like, what are some of the security issues that you have to deal with? >> Well obviously intellectual property is a big concern, protection of our, we call our employees members. So the protection of our employee member data is important to us, customer data, supplier data, so protection of those key data elements and our assets is a priority in my role. >> Okay, so we're in a Forescout booth, you're using their solution, you come in and Mike tells us you're connected to the network, it crawls out and tells us all the devices. How did that go? How well did it work for you guys? >> It was a fantastic experience for us to be honest with you. From the point that we deployed the ISO onto a virtual instance, about seven hours later we had gotten 97% visibility on our network. And not just data, actionable data which was really important in our use case, >> Yeah keep going, So, well I was just going to say how many surprises did you get after those hours when you got to report back? >> Oh we had quite a number. We were anticipating about 8,000 IPs we landed at about 13,000, so there was quite a bit more end points that we discovered, after implementing the product. One of the bigger pieces that we found was that our showrooms out in global sectors like Asia and Europe, had a bunch of APs that were stood up, you know some sales people thought that they wanted to plug them into a network jack and stand up their own wireless networks, we had found them and we were able to squash them pretty quickly, and that was within 24 hours of implementing the product. >> So you're expecting 8,000 you got 13,000 more than a 50% increase over what you thought? >> Quick math, correct, yes. >> I'm no quick and dirty math guy. I'm not a data scientist. >> I'm not either. >> Okay, so and then how many things did you have that were custom that needed to be added to the library? >> I'm going to say about 10 or 15 units, we have some that we produce. Haworth creates a unit called the Workwear unit which is a screen presentation casting device, and what that device does, it sits on our production network and in order for us to be able to demo that device we had to punch holes in our firewall. Very manual process, those devices move around very often and it was really hard for our IT teams to keep up with. How those devices move, how dynamic they are and you know code revisions, we're living showrooms so nothing stays in one spot at one time. The Forescout was able to very easily identify them using a couple of pieces of information that it gathered, and by using the Palo Alto Networks plugin, we were able to then dynamically punch holes through our firewall to our guest network for just those IPs, in just those services, and just those ports to enable our guests coming in who are looking to purchase the product to actually test drive it, and really have a good use with the product before purchasing it. >> So the guests that you're talking about are your customers, right? >> Our customers, correct yes. >> And when you say they wanted to test drive it, were they, do you let them go test drive it at their local office? Or are you let them drive their own content on it back at your like, executive briefing center? >> How does that mean, cause you're talking about punching a holes, right so that doesn't just happen without some thought. >> No it doesn't, exactly, and the thought was we can't sell a product if we can't demo it, and you come into Haworth, you're my guest. I want you to see the power of my product. I want you to use your laptop, your content on my screens and my space. How can we do that while protecting my digital network? And that's what the Forescout enables us to be able to do as part of our microsegmentation strategy with the Forescout. >> And then you said that that was tied to sub-functionality in a Palo Alto Networks device. >> That's correct. Like I mentioned earlier, the ability to have actionable data was one of our key points in purchasing employing the Forescout unit. We're experiencing a lot of growth, and the way we're treating our growth is, we're treating these companies like they are BYOD. We want, we're buying their brand, we're buying their ability to sell their product. They know their product, they have passion about their product. >> So these are new product lines within your guys total offering? >> Correct, yes. >> Okay. >> And what we wanted to do when we started to integrate the IT side of the world, we wanted to be able to keep them operating on their own. So, we're using the Forescout to be able to look into their network, and looking at a couple of key variables on their machines, say, do you meet this criteria? If you do then we're going to allow you to egress through our Palo Alto firewall using the Palo Alto Networks module on the Forescout, to be able to egress into our environment. If you don't meet that criteria, then you're just not getting in period. So we're able to provide a measure of control, trust but verify to the other networks that we have before their devices come into ours. >> So you're doing that you're adding all these, all these devices, you talk a lot about stuff that's actionable. What did you have before, or did you have anything before? What types of stuff that is actionable, how do you define actionable and I wonder if you could give a couple of examples. >> Sure that's actually really easy. When I say actionable data, I'm able to look at let's just say your laptop sitting here, with the Forescout, I can gather any multitude of data off of it, patch levels, OS levels, software installed, processes running, what switch port you're on, what wireless AP you're on, and off of all that information, I can make any number of decisions. I could move you to another VLAN, I could move you to another security group, I can tag your machine, I can send a trap to my SIM, and be able to record whatever data I need to record. In our use case, using the data that we're gathering from the affiliate networks and from the work wears we're able to then take action to say, yes this device meets our criteria, we can now send that data up into the Palo Alto and then tie it to a rule that exists to allow or disallow traffic. You know, with the fact that it's a single pane of glass, the fact that I can have my help desk go in and make decisions based on data that they're getting, based on actionable data, based on other pieces of data that are getting fed in through my environment, like indicators of compromise. I can enable my level one staff to be able to make level three decisions without giving them keys to the kingdom. Which I think is a big value with the Forescout. >> That's pretty impressive, cause that really helps you leverage your resources in a major major way. >> Correct, I'm a team of three. >> You're a team of three. >> Yes. >> (laughs) So more specifically I guess generally you know, talk about the role of automation because I don't know how many transactions are going through your system and how many pings are coming in but you said 13,000 devices just on the initial, on the initial ping, so how are you leveraging automation? What what's kind of the future do you see in terms of AI, machine learning and all these things we hear about because you can't hire you're way out of the problem, you've only got three people. >> Correct, correct right now we have limited staff but our skill set's fantastic. I'm blessed to have a team of really fantastic engineers that I work with. That being said, how the Forescout's helped us is being able to take some of the load off of them by automating tasks and some of that might be we have a machine that is not patched. We can identify that machine, put it into a group. Our servers are actually being patched by the Forescout right now, we're using that as a way to identify vulnerabilities, missing patches and then stage them into groups using the policies within the Forescout to be able to push down patches and you mentioned earlier one of the products that we had they gave us this visibility. We didn't really have anything. We had Forescout a number of years ago but we had some administration changes and we revamped our entire tool set. We came back and repurchased and re put in the Forescout in 2015, and that's where we've really been able to develop our current use cases and the strength behind the Forescout implementation that we have now. >> Right. And I'm just curious before we close are you, are you putting more IP connectivity on all of your kind of core SKUs? Are you seeing a potential benefit to put an IP address on a, on a wall, on a cube, on a desk, on all that stuff? How do you kind of see that evolving? >> I honestly see IoT being, you know, it's evolving very quickly obviously. We've got, we have IP addresses on our window blinds, you know. >> On your window blinds. >> Yeah, on our window blinds, so that they can control the amount of sunlight coming and we're LEED certified building. So we have all of these different IoT devices that control sunlight, control climate control in the building and obviously our production facilities have a lot of IoT devices as well and the Forescout helps us to be able to segment them into the correct VLANs, apply virtual firewalls, apply different changes to their own network. It gives us a lot of visibility and gives us a lot of control because of the granularity that it just natively collects. >> Right right. Well Joe, it's such a cool story you know. IP on shades that's my, that's my lesson of the day. (laughs) That it just shows that there's just so many opportunities to leverage this new technology in a very special way, but the complexity grows even faster right? >> It certainly does. >> Alright well thanks for taking a few minutes and I really enjoyed it. >> Awesome. >> Alright he's Joe, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're in the Forescout booth at RSA North America in Moscone Center thanks for watching we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Palo Alto. It's theCUBE, covering Women Transforming Technology 2017. Brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Woman Transforming Technology conference held at VMware here in beautiful Palo Alto, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. I am joined by Nicola Acutt, she is the vice president of sustainability strategy here at VMware. Nicola, thanks so much for joining us. >> My pleasure, Rebecca, it's great to be with you. >> So I want to start out by talking to you about how VMware is thinking differently about sustainability and devising its strategy. >> Yeah, great. Well, you know, sustainability is something that's not really new at VMware. We've been doing sustainability for many many years, but what is new is we've rethought our strategy and we've rethought how we frame and think about it. And that starts with the business and what we actually do in the world. This is what's really exciting to me, you know. We've done a lot of very responsible things, from the design of the campus here in Palo Alto, which you've seen, our LEED certified buildings and the work that we do in philanthropy and community. And now what we're doing is pulling it all together under this concept of collective impact, and for us, that's about the sum of the parts, and really about ultimately how we leave a legacy and impact as a business, but starting with what we do. >> And I think that that's... What you're saying is so important in this sense of, for corporate social responsibility, that has to start with a business case of why you're doing this, but then there's also this legacy part to it too. So talk a little bit about what you're thinking there. >> Yeah, well, glad you asked, it's a large part of why we have, as we rethought sustainability, we put this role in our office of the CTO. And for that exact reason, because it's about, you know, what is the legacy we create? Not just in our industry, but for the world. So we talk about, you know, my role, in the office of the CTO, it's very much about helping to inspire engineering for impact, so that we, you know, our mission is about creating not just the most innovative software in the world, but for the world. So we think about the impact, the legacy impact VMware has had in the data center, which is one thing I can talk about, you know, the environmental impact of that. But then also looking forward at how we enable access to technology, the platforms really to change the world, whether it's providing solutions for farmers in rural parts of India of Africa or down the street. It's this view of how does VMware's technology help create a better place, a better world. >> Well, just the fact that you were in the office of the CTO is such a dramatic change from so many companies. I mean, when you think about the bad rap that sustainability gets, corporate green washing and things like that, but to put it at the core of VMware's business, that is a very dramatic difference. What was the impetus for that? >> That's a great question. You know, I think before we were talking about, I've been at VMware for several years, and been on a journey myself and what we do, and started working in the foundation. And I've moved into this role in the CTO office. And part of that was about how we came to this perspective of what is the impact that we want to create, and how do we want to go beyond sustainability to collective impact, and that was about this idea of net positive. How do we create a legacy where the sum of the parts are greater than the pieces. And I'll tell you a little story, you know, when I first joined VMware, I remember people describing the impact from an efficiency point of view in the data center, and I was always fascinated by that question. And finally last year we did a piece of work together with IDC to actually quantify that impact, and so for the first time, we were able to get the data and look at the legacy impact that we've had, and the numbers are astounding. When you look at what VMware and our customers have done over the last 13 years, it's the equivalent of avoiding 340 million metric tons of CO2 going into the atmosphere. That's a pretty astounding number, right? So what does that mean? It's the equivalent, we worked it out, it's the equivalent of powering 43 million homes, which is about 43% of US households for a year. >> Rebecca: A year? >> For a year. Isn't that incredible? >> Yes. >> And it was that, so that piece of work was really what helped shift this perspective and our collective realization that, yes, we can do all these great things, from social responsibility, environmental responsibility, in terms of how we run our business and how we treat our people in communities, but probably the most important and powerful impact that we can have is how we use our technology, and the impact that we have on the lives that we change as a result through our technology. >> You are in a panel here at the Women Transforming Technology conference that's all about design thinking. And it's about design thinking in terms of leadership, and your approach to management. But also, your approach to your job and devising, in your case, a sustainability strategy. Talk about design thinking and how it's changed the way you go about things. >> Right, I'm personally a big fan of design thinking, and it's one of those methodologies or experiences, where when you experience it, you really see the power of it. And when we were working in the foundation, the beginning of this work, we pulled in some design thinking experts to help us just frame a problem that we were trying to solve. And that experience really resonated with me, and it stuck with me, and these ideas of how you go from brainstorm big picture thinking to actually impact and outcome. >> So just break it down for our viewers, design thinking, elevator pitch, what is it? >> Sure. So it starts with sort of four key principles. It's about empathy, starting with empathy. Thinking about the problem that you're trying to solve. Thirdly, implementing, so rapid prototyping and then testing again, so lots of testing, before you come to the impact and the outcome. And it's this iterative process, kind of building something, testing it, going back and building it again. But I think the biggest takeaway for me and what I learned about it that I applied to leadership is this idea of empathy. And I think we often think of empathy as feeling sorry for, but it's not, it's really to me, empathy is radical questioning and radically asking yourself, challenging your assumptions and trying to see what others see, and I think it's that, that shift of mindset that's so powerful, and for me, applying that to my work shows up all the time, whether I'm in a meeting, whether I am running a team, whether we were doing the strategy for sustainability, it's constantly asking the questions, asking why. I think that for me is the thing that I really appreciate about design thinking and I try to bring it to everything that I do. >> From a product standpoint, the empathy is for the end user, for the customer, the person who is going to be using the product. But when it comes to creating a sustainability strategy, who are you empathizing with? >> Yeah, that's a... So, you know, again, that this word empathy, I think, is-- >> Rebecca: It trips people up! >> Yeah, because we think it means feeling sorry for, right? But no, it's about seeing the other. Because what we were doing is taking this much wider angle view on sustainability, in other words, it's not about the real estate organization or about turning off the lights in our operations, it's about the whole business. So for me, empathy is about trying to step into other people's shoes, and working with stakeholders across the business, so not just in our real estate operations, but in the business, in HR, in legal, across all of the functions. And asking questions and listening to stakeholders, and really trying to understand their point of view on the business so that I can connect what they care about to, ultimately, the sustainability strategy. >> Talk about design thinking in an approach to leadership. Particularly in light of why we're here, Women Transforming Technology. How does it work when you're on a team? >> Yeah. >> You know, I think it starts with that individual, it starts with empathy always, and the why, and really trying to understand others, the people that you're working with. When I say empathy, I think about trying to see others. And part of seeing others is knowing what their strengths are and knowing what they're uniquely placed to do. So in working with the team, I think that is a great leadership skill, is to really know and understand your team, to build a team that functions really well together. That skill, I think, is irreplaceable in leadership. >> And what about for the person who's being led? So the person who's not quite the manager yet, maybe earlier in her career. How can she use design thinking and empathize both with her colleagues and her customers, but also perhaps her manager too, in terms of not only moving the product forward, but also moving her career forward? >> Yeah, you know, the speaker in the panel we just listened to, Lynn Christensen, talked about the importance of understanding the needs of others and how powerful that can be when you're trying to get work done and have an influence. So she gave an example which I loved about, often where we're trying to prove ourselves, right, especially as young women in the workforce. And there is an important element of confidence and all of those good things that we're talking about here, but I think the other element of what she was getting at is understanding when you're giving a presentation or you're talking about a product or an idea, to think about who you're talking to. And to make sure that, when you think about your message and your presentation, to be designing your talk, to use design thinking, designing your talk with that person in mind, and that can be a really powerful way to have yourself seen as a potential or as a future leader. >> In terms of how you are thinking about VMware sustainability strategy and the way other companies are, what, and I don't want this to turn into a school where other companies should follow VMware's lead, but at the same time, what would your advice be to other companies that are seeing what you're doing and, for example, putting sustainability in the office of the CTO? What other differences in terms of how you approach sustainability could other companies mimic, for the good of all of us? >> For the good of all, absolutely. I think that's a really important question because, you know, I think there's a role for corporate social responsibility and philanthropy and sustainability, and I think every company is unique, depending on their market and their industry, but ultimately, when we think about trying to create a positive impact on the world, and frankly, to address some of the world's most pressing challenges, it really does require the combination of what I talk about, this collective impact, and the skills and competencies a business can bring to that really are in what they offer to the world, and often that isn't necessarily just philanthropy, it could be a combination of those things. My perspective on this is really thinking about where your unique competencies as a company and a business overlap with the world's great needs? And finding that sweet spot is where I believe companies can have the biggest impact. >> One of the other elements of sustainability strategy is making sure that companies are committed to diversity and inclusion, and is there a way that you're working on that here at VMware as part of the sustainability strategy, or is that more of an HR function? I mean, how does it all work together? >> Yeah, you know, the work that we're doing at VMware on diversity and inclusion is very much part of this ethos of collective impact, because it's really pulling and connecting these elements of the work that we're doing inside the company, in different departments, into this legacy of what I call net positive, the net positive impact. So diversity and inclusion is part of that in a really important way, and this is what this conference today is really all about, bringing a community of women together who are passionate and committed to making an impact in technology, and leaving that positive legacy. And so for me personally, today's really quite poignant, actually. I'm a mom, and I'm also the daughter of a farmer, and I'm going to get choked up. (laughter) And a school teacher. >> And you're going to meet Gloria Steinem later today, Nicola. I don't know if I can pile on, but-- >> Well, this is what's so poignant for me, is I grew up in the shadow of apartheid, and I think, and a very patriarchal society by my mom, was very influenced by Gloria Steinem. And her fierceness about education for girls was really ultimately, I think, had an impact on me not only finishing high school, but going on to get a four year degree and a PhD, and ultimately, you know, South African woman finding herself in Silicon Valley today. >> Right. >> Is a testament to Gloria and to my mom, and all the women who have forged this path for us. And so today is an opportunity, I think, in some ways to say thank you, me personally to say thank you to Gloria and those women who have forged the path, but I think today's also important in the recognition that there is this community that is growing, a community of women who are having an impact in technology. But I think the other element is that we realize that our work is not done. And that's what today is all about, is this community of women who are carrying the torch because our work isn't done. >> So yes, I mean, there is that balance. There's this gratitude, on one hand, of our forebears and what they've sacrificed for us to be where we are. But then at the other hand, particularly as you said, you grew up in the shadow of apartheid, and now you have Donald Trump as president, and we're hearing a lot of... (laughs) Of scary notions coming from the White House right now. So there is also this other side to it, which is feeling anger and a real mobilization to rise up. >> Yeah, Kara was really eloquent about that this morning, and I think it's complex, right? This is multiple facets and multiple forces at play. But at the end of the day, I think it is really really important to be clear about our values, and to be clear about the impact that we want to leave in the world, and finding a community of people around which to focus our energies. >> Perfect words to end on. Nicola Acutt, thank you so much for joining us. >> My pleasure! >> I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, we'll return with theCUBE's coverage of Women Transforming Technology here at VMware. (upbeat music) (ominous music)