>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe, 2022. Brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and cuon cloud native con 20 Europe, 2022. I'm your host Keith towns alongside a new hope en Rico, senior reti, senior editor. I'm sorry, senior it analyst at <inaudible> Enrique. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you very much. And thank you for having me. It's exciting. >>So thoughts, high level thoughts of CU con first time in person again in couple years? >>Well, this is amazing for several reasons. And one of the reasons is that yeah, I had the chance to meet, uh, with, uh, you know, people like you again. I mean, we, we met several times over the internet over zoom calls. I, I started to eat these zoom codes. <laugh> because they're really impersonal in the end. And like last night we, we are together group of friends, industry folks. It's just amazing. And a part of that, I mean, the event is, uh, is a really cool, it's really cool. There are a lot from people interviews and, you know, real people doing real stuff, not just, uh, you know, again, in personal calls, you don't even know if they're telling the truth, but when you can, you know, look in their eyes, what they're doing, I, I think that's makes a difference. >>So speaking about real people, meeting people for the first time, new jobs, new roles, Greg Moscarella, enterprise container management and general manager at SUSE. Welcome to the show, welcome back clue belong. >>Thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to be back in person. And I completely agree with you. Like there's a certain fidelity to the conversation and a certain, uh, ability to get to know people a lot more. So it's absolutely fantastic to be here. >>So Greg, tell us about your new role and what SUSE has gone on at KU coupon. >>Sure. So I joined SA about three months ago to lead the rancher business unit, right? So our container management pieces and, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic time. Cause if you look at the transition from virtual machines to containers and to moving to microservices, right alongside that transition from on-prem to cloud, like this is a very exciting time to be in this industry. And rancher has been setting the stage. And again, I'm go back to being here. Rancher's all about the community, right? So this is a very open, independent, uh, community driven product and project. And so this, this is kinda like being back to our people, right. And being able to reconnect here. And so, you know, doing it, digital is great, but, but being here is changes the game for us. So we, we feed off that community. We feed off the energy. So, uh, and again, going back to the space and what's happening in it, great time to be in this space. And you guys have seen the transitions you've seen, I mean, we've seen just massive adoption, uh, of containers and Kubernetes overall and ranchers been been right there with some amazing companies doing really interesting things that I'd never thought of before. Uh, so I'm, I'm still learning on this, but, um, but it's been great so far. >>Yeah. And you know, when we talk about strategy about Kubernetes today, we are talking about very broad strategies. I mean, not just the data center or the cloud with, you know, maybe smaller organization adopting Kubernetes in the cloud, but actually large organization thinking guide and more and more the edge. So what's your opinion on this, you know, expansion of Kubernetes towards the edge. >>So I think you're, I think you're exactly right. And that's actually a lot of meetings I've been having here right now is these are some of these interesting use cases. So people who, uh, whether it be, you know, ones that are easy to understand in the telco space, right? Especially the adoption of 5g and you have all these space stations, new towers, and they have not only the core radio functions or network functions that they're trying to do there, but they have other applications that wanna run on that same environment. Uh, I spoke recently with some of our, our good friends at a major automotive manufacturer, doing things in their factories, right. That can't take the latency of being somewhere else. Right. So they have robots on the factory floor, the latency that they would experience if they tried to run things in the cloud meant that robot would've moved 10 centimeters. >>By the time, you know, the signal got back, it may not seem like a lot to you, but if, if, if you're an employee, you know, there, you know, uh, a big 2000 pound robot being 10 centimeters closer to you may not be what you, you really want. Um, there's, there's just a tremendous amount of activity happening out there on the retail side as well. So it's, it's amazing how people are deploying containers in retail outlets. You know, whether it be fast food and predicting, what, what, how many French fries you need to have going at this time of day with this sort of weather. Right. So you can make sure those queues are actually moving through. It's, it's, it's really exciting and interesting to look at all the different applications that are happening. So yes, on the edge for sure, in the public cloud, for sure. In the data center and we're finding is people want a common platform across those as well. Right? So for the management piece too, but also for security and for policies around these things. So, uh, it really is going everywhere. >>So talk to me, how do, how are we managing that as we think about pushing stuff out of the data center, out of the cloud cloud, closer to the edge security and life cycle management becomes like top of mind thought as, as challenges, how is rancher and sushi addressing >>That? Yeah. So I, I think you're, again, spot on. So it's, it starts off with the think of it as simple, but it's, it's not simple. It's the provisioning piece. How do we just get it installed and running right then to what you just asked the management piece of it, everything from your firmware to your operating system, to the, the cluster, uh, the Kubernetes cluster, that's running on that. And then the workloads on top of that. So with rancher, uh, and with the rest of SUSE, we're actually tacking all those parts of the problems from bare metal on up. Uh, and so we have lots of ways for deploying that operating system. We have operating systems that are, uh, optimized for the edge, very secure and ephemeral container images that you can build on top of. And then we have rancher itself, which is not only managing your ES cluster, but can actually start to manage the operating system components, uh, as well as the workload components. >>So all from your single interface, um, we mentioned policy and security. So we, yeah, we'll probably talk about it more, um, uh, in a little bit, but, but new vector, right? So we acquired a company called new vector, just open sourced, uh, that here in January, that ability to run that level of, of security software everywhere again, is really important. Right? So again, whether I'm running it on, whatever my favorite public cloud providers, uh, managed Kubernetes is, or out at the edge, you still have to have security, you know, in there. And, and you want some consistency across that. If you have to have a different platform for each of your environments, that's just upping the complexity and the opportunity for error. So we really like to eliminate that and simplify our operators and developers' lives as much as possible. >>Yeah. From this point of view, are you implying that even you, you are matching, you know, self, uh, let's say managed clusters at the, at the very edge now with, with, you know, added security, because these are the two big problems lately, you know, so having something that is autonomous somehow easier to manage, especially if you are deploying hundreds of these that's micro clusters. And on the other hand, you need to know a policy based security that is strong enough to be sure again, if you have these huge robots moving too close to you, because somebody act the, the, the class that is managing them, that is, could be a huge problem. So are you, you know, approaching this kind of problems? I mean, is it, uh, the technology that you are acquired, you know, ready to, to do this? >>Yeah. I, I mean, it, it really is. I mean, there's still a lot of innovation happening. Don't, don't get me wrong. We're gonna see a lot of, a lot more, not just from, from SA and ranch here, but from the community, right. There's a lot happening there, but we've come a long way and we solved a lot of problems. Uh, if I think about, you know, how do you have this distributed environment? Uh, well, some of it comes down to not just, you know, all the different environments, but it's also the applications, you know, with microservices, you have very dynamic environment now just with your application space as well. So when we think about security, we really have to evolve from a fairly static policy where like, you might even be able to set an IP address and a port and some configuration on that. >>It's like, well, your workload's now dynamically moving. So not only do you have to have that security capability, like the ability to like, look at a process or look at a network connection and stop it, you have to have that, uh, manageability, right? You can't expect an operator or someone to like go in and manually configure a YAML file, right? Because things are changing too fast. It needs to be that combination of convenient, easy to manage with full function and ability to protect your, your, uh, your resources. And I think that's really one of the key things that new vector really brings is because we have so much intelligence about what's going on there. Like the configuration is pretty high level, and then it just runs, right? So it's used to this dynamic environment. It can actually protect your workloads wherever it's going from pod to pod. Uh, and it's that, that combination, again, that manageability with that high functionality, um, that, that is what's making it so popular. And what brings that security to those edge locations or cloud locations or your data center. >>So one of the challenges you're kind of, uh, touching on is this abstraction on, upon abstraction. When I, I ran my data center, I could put, uh, say this IP address, can't talk to this IP address on this port. Then I got next generation firewalls where I could actually do, uh, some analysis. Where are you seeing the ball moving to when it comes to customers, thinking about all these layers of abstraction IP address doesn't mean anything anymore in cloud native it's yes, I need one, but I'm not, I'm not protecting based on IP address. How are customers approaching security from the name space perspective? >>Well, so it's, you're absolutely right. In fact, even when you go to IPV six, like, I don't even recognize IP addresses anymore. <laugh> yeah. >>That doesn't mean anything like, oh, just a bunch of, yeah. Those are numbers, alpha Ric >>And colons. Right. You know, it's like, I don't even know anymore. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's, it comes back to that, moving from a static, you know, it's the pets versus cattle thing. Right? So this static thing that I can sort of know and, and love and touch and kind of protect to this almost living, breathing thing, which is moving all around, it's a swarm of, you know, pods moving all over the place. And so, uh, it, it is, I mean, that's what Kubernetes has done for the workload side of it is like, how do you get away from, from that, that pet to a declarative approach to, you know, identifying your workload and the components of that workload and what it should be doing. And so if we go on the security side some more like, yeah, it's actually not even namespace namespace. >>Isn't good enough if we wanna get, if we wanna get to zero trust, it's like, just cuz you're running in my namespace doesn't mean I trust you. Right. So, and that's one of the really cool things about new vectors because of the, you know, we're looking at protocol level stuff within the network. So it's pod to pod, every single connection we can look at and it's at the protocol layer. So if you say you're on my SQL database and I have a mye request going into it, I can confirm that that's actually a mye protocol being spoken and it's well formed. Right. And I know that this endpoint, you know, which is a, uh, container image or a pod name or some, or a label, even if it's in the same name, space is allowed to talk to and use this protocol to this other pod that's running in my same name space. >>Right. So I can either allow or deny. And if I can, I can look into the content that request and make sure it's well formed. So I'll give you an example is, um, do you guys remember the log four J challenges from not too long ago, right. It was a huge deal. So if I'm doing something that's IP and port based and name space based, so what are my protections? What are my options for something that's got logged four J embedded in like, I either run the risk of it running or I shut it down. Those are my options. Like those neither one of those are very good. So we can do, because again, we're at the protocol layer. It's like, ah, I can identify any log for J protocol. I can look at whether it's well formed, you know, or if it's malicious and it's malicious, I can block it. If it's well formed, I can let it go through. So I can actually look at those, those, um, those vulnerabilities. I don't have to take my service down. I can run and still be protected. And so that, that extra level, that ability to kind of peek into things and also go pod to pod, you know, not just same space level is one of the key differences. So I talk about the evolution or how we're evolving with, um, with the security. Like we've grown a lot, we've got a lot more coming. >>So let's talk about that a lot more coming what's in the pipeline for SUSE. >>Well, probably before I get to that, we just announced new vector five. So maybe I can catch us up on what was released last week. Uh, and then we can talk a little bit about going, going forward. So new vector five, introduce something called um, well, several things, but one of the things I can talk in more detail about is something called zero drift. So I've been talking about the network security, but we also have run time security, right? So any, any container that's running within your environment has processes that are running that container. What we can do is actually comes back to that manageability and configuration. We can look at the root level of trust of any process that's running. And as long as it has an inheritance, we can let that process run without any extra configuration. If it doesn't have a root level of trust, like it didn't spawn from whatever the, a knit, um, function was in that container. We're not gonna let it run. Uh, so the, the configuration that you have to put in there is, is a lot simpler. Um, so that's something that's in, in new vector five, um, the web application firewall. So this layer seven security inspection has gotten a lot more granular now. So it's that pod Topo security, um, both for ingress egress and internal on the cluster. Right. >>So before we get to what's in the pipeline, one question around new vector, how is that consumed and deployed? >>How is new vector consumed, >>Deployed? And yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. So, uh, again with new vector five and, and also rancher 2 65, which just were released, there's actually some nice integration between them. So if I'm a rancher customer and I'm using 2 65, I can actually deploy that new vector with a couple clicks of the button in our, uh, in our marketplace. And we're actually tied into our role-based access control. So an administrator who has that has the rights can just click they're now in a new vector interface and they can start setting those policies and deploying those things out very easily. Of course, if you aren't using, uh, rancher, you're using some other, uh, container management platform, new vector still works. Awesome. You can deploy it there still in a few clicks. Um, you're just gonna get into, you have to log into your new vector, uh, interface and, and use it from there. >>So that's how it's deployed. It's, it's very, it's very simple to use. Um, I think what's actually really exciting about that too, is we've opensourced it? Um, so it's available for anyone to go download and try, and I would encourage people to give it a go. Uh, and I think there's some compelling reasons to do that now. Right? So we have pause security policies, you know, depreciated and going away, um, pretty soon in, in Kubernetes. And so there's a few things you might look at to make sure you're still able to run a secure environment within Kubernetes. So I think it's a great time to look at what's coming next, uh, for your security within your Kubernetes. >>So Paul, we appreciate chief stopping by from ity of Spain, from Spain, I'm Keith Townsend, along with en Rico Sinte. Thank you. And you're watching the, the leader in high tech coverage.

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and con cloud native con 20 Europe, 2022. I'm your host, Keith Townson alongside a new host en Rico senior reti, senior editor. I'm sorry, senior it analyst at giong Enrique. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you very much. And thank you for having me. It's exciting. >>So thoughts, high level thoughts of CU con first time in person again in couple years? >>Well, this is amazing for several reasons. And one of the reasons is that yeah, I had the chance to meet, uh, with, uh, you know, people like you again. I mean, we, we met several times over the internet, over zoom codes. I, I started to eat these zoom codes. <laugh> because they're very impersonal in the end. And like last night we, we are together group of friends, industry folks. It's just amazing. And a part of that, I mean, the event is, uh, is a really cool, it's really cool. There are a lot from people interviews and, you know, real people doing real stuff, not just, uh, you know, again, in personal calls, you don't even know if they're telling the truth, but when you can, you know, look in their eyes, what they're doing, I, I think that's makes a difference. >>So speaking about real people, meeting people for the first time, new jobs, new roles, Greg Moscarella enterprise container management in general manager at SUSE, welcome to the show, welcome back clue belong. >>Thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to be back in person. And I completely agree with you. Like there's a certain fidelity to the conversation and a certain, uh, ability to get to know people a lot more. So it's absolutely fantastic to be here. >>So Greg, tell us about your new role and what SUSE has gone on at KU con. >>Sure. So I joined SA about three months ago to lead the rancher business unit, right? So our container management pieces and, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic time. Cause if you look at the transition from virtual machines to containers and to moving to micro services, right alongside that transition from on-prem to cloud, like this is a very exciting time to be in this industry and rancher's been setting the stage. And again, I'm go back to being here. Rancher's all about the community, right? So this is a very open, independent, uh, community driven product and project. And so this, this is kinda like being back to our people, right. And being able to reconnect here. And so, you know, doing it, digital is great, but, but being here is changes the game for us. So we, we feed off that community. We feed off the energy. So, uh, and again, going back to the space and what's happening in it, great time to be in this space. And you guys have seen the transitions you've seen, I mean, we've seen just massive adoption, uh, of containers and Kubernetes overall, and rancher has been been right there with some amazing companies doing really interesting things that I'd never thought of before. Uh, so I'm, I'm still learning on this, but, um, but it's been great so far. >>Yeah. And you know, when we talk about strategy about Kubernetes today, we are talking about very broad strategies. I mean, not just the data center or the cloud with, you know, maybe smaller organization adopting Kubernetes in the cloud, but actually large organization thinking guide and more and more the edge. So what's your opinion on this, you know, expansion of Kubernetes towards the edge. >>So I think you're, I think you're exactly right. And that's actually a lot of meetings I've been having here right now is these are some of these interesting use cases. So people who, uh, whether it be, you know, ones that are easy to understand in the telco space, right? Especially the adoption of 5g and you have all these base stations, new towers, and they have not only the core radio functions or network functions that they're trying to do there, but they have other applications that wanna run on that same environment, uh, spoke recently with some of our, our good friends at a major automotive manufacturer, doing things in their factories, right. That can't take the latency of being somewhere else. Right? So they have robots on the factory floor, the latency that they would experience if they tried to run things in the cloud meant that robot would've moved 10 centimeters. >>By the time, you know, the signal got back, it may not seem like a lot to you, but if, if, if you're an employee, you know, there, you know, uh, a big 2000 pound robot being 10 centimeters closer to you may not be what you, you really want. Um, there's, there's just a tremendous amount of activity happening out there on the retail side as well. So it's, it's amazing how people are deploying containers in retail outlets. You know, whether it be fast food and predicting, what, what, how many French fries you need to have going at this time of day with this sort of weather. Right. So you can make sure those queues are actually moving through. It's, it's, it's really exciting and interesting to look at all the different applications that are happening. So yes, on the edge for sure, in the public cloud, for sure. In the data center and we're finding is people want to common platform across those as well. Right? So for the management piece too, but also for security and for policies around these things. So, uh, it really is going everywhere. >>So talk to me, how do, how are we managing that as we think about pushing stuff out of the data center, out of the cloud cloud, closer to the edge security and life cycle management becomes like top of mind thought as, as challenges, how is rancher and sushi addressing >>That? Yeah. So I, I think you're, again, spot on. So it's, it starts off with the think of it as simple, but it's, it's not simple. It's the provisioning piece. How do we just get it installed and running right then to what you just asked the management piece of it, everything from your firmware to your operating system, to the, the cluster, uh, the Kubernetes cluster, that's running on that. And then the workloads on top of that. So with rancher, uh, and with the rest of SUSE, we're actually tacking all those parts of the problems from bare metal on up. Uh, and so we have lots of ways for deploying that operating system. We have operating systems that are, uh, optimized for the edge, very secure and ephemeral container images that you can build on top of. And then we have rancher itself, which is not only managing your Kubernetes cluster, but can actually start to manage the operating system components, uh, as well as the workload components. >>So all from your single interface, um, we mentioned policy and security. So we, yeah, we'll probably talk about it more, um, uh, in a little bit, but, but new vector, right? So we acquired a company called new vector, just open sourced, uh, that here in January, that ability to run that level of, of security software everywhere again, is really important. Right? So again, whether I'm running it on, whatever my favorite public cloud providers, uh, managed Kubernetes is, or out at the edge, you still have to have security, you know, in there. And, and you want some consistency across that. If you have to have a different platform for each of your environments, that's just upping the complexity and the opportunity for error. So we really like to eliminate that and simplify our operators and developers lives as much as possible. >>Yeah. From this point of view, are you implying that even you, you are matching, you know, self, uh, let's say managed clusters at the, at the very edge now with, with, you know, added security, because these are the two big problems lately, you know, so having something that is autonomous somehow easier to manage, especially if you are deploying hundreds of these that's micro clusters. And on the other hand, you need to know a policy based security that is strong enough to be sure again, if you have these huge robots moving too close to you, because somebody act the class that is managing them, that could be a huge problem. So are you, you know, approaching this kind of problems? I mean, is it, uh, the technology that you are acquired, you know, ready to, to do this? >>Yeah. I, I mean, it, it really is. I mean, there's still a lot of innovation happening. Don't, don't get me wrong. We're gonna see a lot of, a lot more, not just from, from SA and rancher, but from the community, right. There's a lot happening there, but we've come a long way and we've solved a lot of problems. Uh, if I think about, you know, how do you have this distributed environment? Uh, well, some of it comes down to not just, you know, all the different environments, but it's also the applications, you know, with microservices, you have very dynamic environment now just with your application space as well. So when we think about security, we really have to evolve from a fairly static policy where like, you might even be able to set an IP address in a port and some configuration on that. It's like, well, your workload's now dynamically moving. >>So not only do you have to have that security capability, like the ability to like, look at a process or look at a network connection and stop it, you have to have that, uh, manageability, right? You can't expect an operator or someone to like go in and manually configure a YAML file, right? Because things are changing too fast. It needs to be that combination of convenient, easy to manage with full function and ability to protect your, your, uh, your resources. And I think that's really one of the key things that new vector really brings is because we have so much intelligence about what's going on there. Like the configuration is pretty high level, and then it just runs, right? So it's used to this dynamic environment. It can actually protect your workloads wherever it's going from pod to pod. Uh, and it's that, that combination, again, that manageability with that high functionality, um, that, that is what's making it so popular. And what brings that security to those edge locations or cloud locations or your data center >>Mm-hmm <affirmative> so one of the challenges you're kind of, uh, touching on is this abstraction on upon abstraction. When I, I ran my data center, I could put, uh, say this IP address, can't talk to this IP address on this port. Then I got next generation firewalls where I could actually do, uh, some analysis. Where are you seeing the ball moving to when it comes to customers, thinking about all these layers of abstraction I IP address doesn't mean anything anymore in cloud native it's yes, I need one, but I'm not, I'm not protecting based on IP address. How are customers approaching security from the name space perspective? >>Well, so it's, you're absolutely right. In fact, even when you go to I P six, like, I don't even recognize IP addresses anymore. <laugh> >>Yeah. Doesn't mean anything like, oh, just a bunch of, yes, those are numbers, ER, >>And colons. Right. You know, it's like, I don't even know anymore. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's, it comes back to that, moving from a static, you know, it's the pets versus cattle thing. Right? So this static thing that I can sort of know and, and love and touch and kind of protect to this almost living, breathing thing, which is moving all around, it's a swarm of, you know, pods moving all over the place. And so, uh, it, it is, I mean, that's what Kubernetes has done for the workload side of it is like, how do you get away from, from that, that pet to a declarative approach to, you know, identifying your workload and the components of that workload and what it should be doing. And so if we go on the security side some more like, yeah, it's actually not even namespace namespace. >>Isn't good enough. We wanna get, if we wanna get to zero trust, it's like, just cuz you're running in my namespace doesn't mean I trust you. Right. So, and that's one of the really cool things about new vectors because of the, you know, we're looking at protocol level stuff within the network. So it's pod to pod, every single connection we can look at and it's at the protocol layer. So if you say you're on my database and I have a mye request going into it, I can confirm that that's actually a mye protocol being spoken and it's well formed. Right. And I know that this endpoint, you know, which is a, uh, container image or a pod name or some, or a label, even if it's in the same name, space is allowed to talk to and use this protocol to this other pod that's running in my same name space. >>Right. So I can either allow or deny. And if I can, I can look into the content that request and make sure it's well formed. So I'll give you an example is, um, do you guys remember the log four J challenges from not too long ago, right. Was, was a huge deal. So if I'm doing something that's IP and port based and name space based, so what are my protections? What are my options for something that's got log four J embedded in like I either run the risk of it running or I shut it down. Those are my options. Like those neither one of those are very good. So we can do, because again, we're at the protocol layers like, ah, I can identify any log for J protocol. I can look at whether it's well formed, you know, or if it's malicious, if it's malicious, I can block it. If it's well formed, I can let it go through. So I can actually look at those, those, um, those vulnerabilities. I don't have to take my service down. I can run and still be protected. And so that, that extra level, that ability to kind of peek into things and also go pod to pod, you know, not just name space level is one of the key differences. So I talk about the evolution or how we're evolving with, um, with the security. Like we've grown a lot, we've got a lot more coming. >>So let's talk about that a lot more coming what's in the pipeline for SUSE. >>Well, how, before I get to that, we just announced new vector five. So maybe I can catch us up on what was released last week. Uh, and then we can talk a little bit about going, going forward. So new vector five, introduce something called um, well, several things, but one of the things I can talk in more detail about is something called zero drift. So I've been talking about the network security, but we also have run time security, right? So any, any container that's running within your environment has processes that are running that container. What we can do is actually comes back to that manageability and configuration. We can look at the root level of trust of any process that's running. And as long as it has an inheritance, we can let that process run without any extra configuration. If it doesn't have a root level of trust, like it didn't spawn from whatever the, a knit, um, function was and that container we're not gonna let it run. Uh, so the, the configuration that you have to put in there is, is a lot simpler. Um, so that's something that's in, in new vector five, um, the web application firewall. So this layer seven security inspection has gotten a lot more granular now. So it's that pod Topo security, um, both for ingress egress and internal on the cluster. Right. >>So before we get to what's in the pipeline, one question around new vector, how is that consumed and deployed? >>How is new vector consumed, >>Deployed? And yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. So, uh, again with new vector five and, and also rancher 2 65, which just were released, there's actually some nice integration between them. So if I'm a rancher customer and I'm using 2 65, I can actually just deploy that new vector with a couple clicks of the button in our, uh, in our marketplace. And we're actually tied into our role-based access control. So an administrator who has that has the rights can just click they're now in a new vector interface and they can start setting those policies and deploying those things out very easily. Of course, if you aren't using, uh, rancher, you're using some other, uh, container management platform, new vector still works. Awesome. You can deploy it there still in a few clicks. Um, you're just gonna get into, you have to log into your new vector, uh, interface and, and use it from there. >>So that's how it's deployed. It's, it's very, it's very simple to use. Um, I think what's actually really exciting about that too, is we've opensourced it? Um, so it's available for anyone to go download and try, and I would encourage people to give it a go. Uh, and I think there's some compelling reasons to do that now. Right? So we have pause security policies, you know, depreciated and going away, um, pretty soon in, in Kubernetes. And so there's a few things you might look at to make sure you're still able to run a secure environment within Kubernetes. So I think it's a great time to look at what's coming next, uh, for your security within your Kubernetes. >>So, Paul, we appreciate you stopping by from ity of Spain. I'm Keith Townsend, along with en Rico Sinte. Thank you. And you're watching the, the leader in high tech coverage.

>> Live from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat. The cloud-native computing foundation and it's ecosystem partners. [Techno Music] >> Hey welcome back everyone. We're here live in Seattle for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. It's theCUBE's three-days coverage live, I'm John Furrier, your host, with Stu Miniman. Our next guest is Greg Muscurella who's the Vice President of products at Nutanix. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me John. >> Good to see you. CUBE alumni. So you guys are doing Kubernetes. You're in the throws of all the enterprise. You've got the hyper converged action. A lot of that happening here. >> Yeah. >> So what's new, what's the update? What's going on with Kubernetes and CNCF? >> Well we're using this as an opportunity to talk about the cloud data stack that we've built on top of our core HCF platform. So all the goodness that you get with the easy management. You have storage availability etc. We've layered on top of that a couple things. Certainly, we have our own Kubernetes distribution called Karbon. Very easy to play. >> With a K. >> Karbon with a K. Of course we've got to keep with the theme, right? And, get a high availability production-ready cluster going in a matters of 10 minutes or so. Five minutes... Or two minutes to fill out the form and a few more minutes for it to deploy. That's the easy piece. But really we're designing this for enterprise applications. So it's about persistence as well. So we have our database management services, right? So Arrow which is the other product which manages everything from your oracle databases to MySQL post threads that you'd see more developers using to your object storage with our Buckets product. And then going on to our Epoch monitoring and management. >> You guys have had great success with the product. What's the use case? Why are customers looking for? What is the use case for your customers? Obviously, you got a great infrastructure positioning. You have network storage and compute all keys to the enterprise. Where's the Kubernetes fit into it? Developer? What's the use case? >> So first of all, Kubernetes and cloud-native is a mode of developing applications to create really scalable distributed systems. We are, I mean, at our core, we are distributed systems from compute and storage. This is a way of building on top of that. And letting enterprises really build out a cloud-native application using these new types of tooling. >> Yeah, Greg, one of the things that struck me in the keynote this morning is the stuff that they said that "40% of applications that are being run in "Kubernetes are statefull." Which I remember is one of those things we've struggled with for a bit and people are wondering oh where does state? >> Yeah >> Does it belong there or do I do something different with storage? I'm curious, what you're hearing from your customers and how that fits into what you're doing? >> Right. So Kubernetes and the ecosystem is evolving so quickly. If you look at where we are with Pet sets to Stateful sets to all the things you are going to do to actually manage or talk to storage underneath it, it's evolved very rapidly over the last couple years. So I think what we're seeing is people who are very comfortable running their compute inside and maybe still wanting to talk to storage outside. Whether it be object storage or database that lives outside maybe on virtual machines. We're seeing some of those services migrate to be more native within Kubernetes. So like using a CSI or something to talk to the storage. And now we have some customers that are putting databases inside as well, right? So it's a matter of how mature you are, how adventurous you are and how much you really need that reliability out of your database or whether you need the speeded deployment and ease. >> Yeah. So Greg we talked some at the dot net show in London just a couple of weeks ago. When you talk to your customers, how do they look at Kubernetes? Is this something that there's an oh well I'm going to be using Amazon and Microsoft and therefore it's there? How much does this fit into their hybrid cloud environment? I would think that would be a big piece of your story. >> It absolutely is. And there's obviously a lot of news around multi cloud and hybrid cloud and that's what's really special about Kubernetes and containers as well as the standard interfaces we have for storage and object and databases is that you now have this sort of portability. And so I can actually run the same thing in the Cloud. I can take that and run the exact same load down in my own data center without changing anything out. And the key to that is of course open and standard APIs, right? Of course my data has to be there as well and that can be difficult to move and migrate. But the same application structure, the same development and paradigm supply both in the Cloud and as well as on-prem. And that's what I'm seeing is a lot of excitement to be able to repurpose that as well as an answer to multi cloud or hybrid cloud. >> What's the workload means in terms of data? Because data becomes the critical asset in Cloud. Stateful data has been a big discussion. Where is that here in CNCF? What's your take on the status of how that's playing out? The need in the marketplace? Ready for primetime? What's the evolution of that piece in the Stateful applications? >> Yeah, I think that with the CSI and going GA and 1.13, I think we're seeing some maturity for that. Not everything will be... Not all storage will be addressed over HTTP. A lot of it is going to be through traditional storage implications or interfaces. And I think what's interesting is seeing the move to try to meet enterprise developers or application developers. Kind of where they are. Like if you have an existing app and you need to move it to containerized application, it's hard to eradicate NFS. It's hard to eradicate block storage and go to something complete out of that. And also I think there's some good reasons to use those types of things, especially if you're running a database itself. So if you want to run a database in Kubernetes you're going to need something more robust than object storage, right? So, that evolution, that maturity has been really fast and it's been interesting to see the Kubernetes community adopt that and then customers take advantage of it. >> It's been a top conversation. >> Greg, I wonder if we can sort of zoom out for a little bit here. >> Sure. >> We're talking about Kubernetes. What does cloud-native mean in the Nutanix context and what you're hearing from your customers? >> What does cloud-native mean? Well I don't think it's unique from our perspective. I think it, again, it comes back to for some people it's going to be a 12 factor application. It's going to be using very standard and open APIs to build those applications. And then being pretty smart about how you address things that might tie you into any particular or any particular operating procedure, right? So we see, for instance some good examples around pop-ups or streaming data. We see a lot of people are very rigorous about adopting Kafka, all right. They want to use Kafka APIs. Even though there's a whole bunch of other services that we use and their favorite cloud file or whatever because they are so interested in that multi cloud or hybrid cloud then they are going to chose their APIs pretty carefully. So I think that's maybe the only thing that's a little bit unique in terms of our customer base. Is it's not a lot of start ups that are like, "I don't care, I'm worried about survival. "It's all product market fix. Let me go fast "and if I get locked into any particular vendor, "that's fine, I don't care. "That's tomorrow's problem." Right? We are enterprises, right? And these are guys who are jaded, have experienced the contract renewals with some of their favorite vendors, right? And they don't want to relive those mistakes again. And so they are very interested in having a very open ecosystem to play in. And we support that fully. >> Yeah. >> And stability, too, with the workload. They want mission-critical workloads to run. >> Absolutely. >> Quickly. >> It's interesting. I hear you talk about APIs and we look at something might be good for a bit but we get a sprawl of every technology. >> Sure. >> We have server sprawl. We had VM sprawl. And many ways we get API sprawl. >> Absolutely. >> Every single environment I work into. What's Nutanix's position on how do you manage APIs? How do you make sure you're just not creating something completely separately? >> Well I think, first of all, we really focus on the core APIs, right? So there's certain things that you just have to get these primitives absolutely right. And I applaud the Kubecon community saying the similar thing. So we do that. Right? We've got to get identity right. You got to get your data access layers right. And you have to get a lot of your provisioning things right. Once you start getting beyond that, you're into more esoteric lands and things don't tend to be as tight in, so we can be a little bit more exploratory on other APIs that aren't as core to the surface. So that's the attitude we take, which I think is similar to what we see in the community as well. I mean if you look at how many projects we got over this morning in the keynotes, it's just like a... >> The CNCF is up to 35 projects, I'm told. So. >> Right, and then tons of things that are not in CNCF that are also being used. Right? So it's a proliferation of things that all hope to be successful and kind of become the standard. >> So what's the update with Nutanix? Give us a quick company overview. Get the plug-in. What's going on with Nutanix? What's the big focus? >> Well focus continues to be just modernizing the data center. Right? Making all these applications easier to run, easier to manage and easier to operate. And that's what we're built on, right? That's the core. Again, for us it's going up the stack. It's going into the networking layer. Making sure micro segmentation can happen quickly and easily. We're not needing a Phd. or heavy lifting of things without taking over your entire network. And going up the stack with our cloud-native application stack. >> One of the things that's been clear in the industry in the past six months, certainly hardcore, we saw it come in before with hybrid, the validation of the on-premises. Right? So on-premises had at least low latency, any mission-critical workloads, aren't always going to the Cloud that fast, so the on-premises and on Cloud dynamic is super important for enterprises that are big enterprises. Not like the small, medium sized enterprises. But like the big ones have legacy and containers are nice fit there. So kind of a nice situation for you guys. How does that all play out? Do you agree with that, or? >> Yeah, so I think there's a lot of work loads that are going to, if they're not already in the public Cloud, they're going to go back, they're going to be built in the public Cloud. I mean if I have a gaming application and world-wide customers, I need to be in a presences where they can get me quickly. But similarly there's a lot of applications that are best on-prem. Whether it be because I have regulatory constraints or just that's where my data is and that's where my systems kind of come back together. I need to build my application where my data is because it's a lot easier to move the app in many cases than to move the data. And a lot of people don't want to give up that ownership and that kind of control. They are uncomfortable with moving their data that's not in their four walls. And so we've seen if you look at the CNCF survey data and you look at where Kubernetes is actually being run you'll find that a lot of Kubernetes is being run on-prem. Like some 60% of respondents are actually running Kubernetes on-prem. Now 89% are running in the Cloud which makes sense. As you start looking at folks who are much more mature, so they've been running Kubernetes for a little bit longer, their fleet size is 1,000 machines or more, we actually see them increasing their running on-prem as well. So it's the idea of having the same workloads, the same APIs that can work, start developing in the Cloud, move that application or the exact same application on-prem, work with my on-prem data, I think is very attractive. >> It's interesting, too, we hear a lot of people talk, "Hey, I'm running Kubernetes." Well, great. That's cool. Like what are you running it for? >> Yeah. >> So this gets down to the what is Kubernetes good for? >> Right. >> You're thoughts. >> Yeah, I think it started where people are comfortable with are really Stateless applications. Right? So it's a lot of filter on a pipe. It's a lot of things that are going through a line of some sort. We certainly see a lot of our IoT applications being built on that which is essentially that, right? So there's some intelligence at the edge. We're gathering the data but we're doing some intelligent things with it. Doing some inference there. Filtering the data. Bring it back to the data center. And then doing additional things on that front. So there's both data gathering as well as execution happening on the edge. So that's a big piece of it in our market. And then back to pipeline just kind of core data services. >> We've been following you guys at Nutanix. You guys are doing great. A great product. Now cloud-native is here. What's on the portfolio roadmap for SaaS and cloud-native for you guys? What's the priorities? >> So continuing to fill out the portfolio so that customers can really easily run whatever application they want. So we want those primitives to be there for them. So database storage we've filled out. The monitoring piece and the observability piece is actually really interesting. And so we have a SaaS service that lets you monitor your clusters no matter where they may be. So if you're running them in your favorite cloud provider, fantastic. You can monitor those as well as what you might be running in whatever your on-prem data center is. We have plans to actually let that be run on-prem as well because again some of our customers, especially who are running dark sites, don't want to have any of there information, even observability data go out. So we are trying to serve that customer that has pretty robust needs both around their computer environemnet but also around their data and how they manage it and protect their data. And that's really our critical customer. >> Great. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. We really appreciate the time and the insight. Nutanix here on theCUBE. John Furrier with Stu Minium. Three days of live coverage of KUBECON, and CloudNativeCon here in Seattle 2018. 8,000 people. Getting larger every time. It's a global conference. Back with more coverage after this short break. [Techno Music]

>> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Nutanix .Next 2018 here in London, England. We're gonna be talking about developers in this segment. I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost is Joep Piscaer. Happy to welcome to the program two first time guests, Bala Kuchibhotla is the General Manager of Nutanix Era, and sitting next to him is Greg Muscarella who recently joined Nutanix, is Vice President of Products at Nutanix. Both of you been up on stage, Greg was talking about Carbon and cloud native, and of course Era is the databases of service. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you. >> Good to be here. >> Alright, so look, developers. You know, we were thinking back, you know, I love the old meme, developers, developers, developers! Balmer had it right, and style might not have been there. Microsoft, company that does quite well with developers. You know, my background is in the enterprise space. I'm an infrastructure guy that goes to cloud, and the struggle I've had a little bit is, you know, developers really work from the application down. It's like that's where they live, and as an infrastructure guy, it's a little uncomfortable for me. So maybe to set that stage, because you know I look at Nutanix, you know, at it's core, infrastructure's a big piece of it, but its distributed architectures, it's built from the architecture from like really the hyper-scale type of environments. So help connect the dots as to where Nutanix plays with the developers, and then we'll get into your products and everything else after. Bala, you want to start? >> Cool, okay. So as you know, Nutanix is definitely addressing the IT ops market. We cannot simply its storage, compute, networking, and build the infrastructure as service. Obviously if you look at the private cloud, the IT operators are becoming the cloud operators and then giving them to the developers. We are basically trying to build a cloud for IT operators so they can present the cloud to developer. Now that we have this infrastructure pretty much there for quite some time, we're not expanding the services to other things, the platform, the platform as service. Now going back to the developer community, you will have the same kind of cloud-like consumption. That these cloud operators, the IT operators are providing the cloud for you. US developers get the same kind of public cloud consumption. They lack ability, that the ability you are trying to do, easy tools, (mumbling), and S3s, that kind of stuff, EBS, you have the same kind of APS for our Nutanix that you can spin up a VM, spin up a database, spin up a storage and then do what you want to do kind of stuff. So that's the natural journey for that kind of stuff. >> Yeah, Greg? >> Yeah, I have to agree. Look, the world has changed quite a bit for developers, and it's gotten a lot better. If you look at the tooling and what you can now do on your laptop and spinning up what would be a pretty complex environment from a three tier application with a robust database, an app tier, anything else you might have on the storage side, spin it up, break it down, and with your CICD pipeline you can have it deployed to production pretty rapidly. So we look at doing is, you know, recreating that experience that the cloud has really brought to those developers and having the same type of tooling for those enterprise-grade applications that are going to be deployed, you know, on that infrastructure that is needed in private data centers. >> So looking at, you know, one of the reasons why developers love cloud services so much, it's easy for them. They can just consume it, it's very low friction. They don't even really, you know, need to go through a purchasing process, other than credit card maybe paid for themselves in the beginning. So you know, low friction is really the key word here. So I'm wondering, you know, looking at the Nutanix, the IT ops perspective, how are you kinda bring that low friction into the developer world? >> Yeah, so I'll take the question. So essentially what I am seeing is the world in the enterprise world is very fragmented. People doing silos kind of stuff. As you rightly said, developers really want to be liberated from all this bureaucracy, right? So they really need a service kind of world where they can go click on it, they get their compute kind of stuff. There's a pressure on the IT ops to give that experience, otherwise people will flee to public a lot. As simple as that, right? So to me, the way I see is the IT ops, the DB ops, the traditional DB ops inner ring, they are understanding the need that, hey well, we gotta be service-ified. We want to provide that kind of service-like interface to our teams who are consuming that kinda stuff. So this software, Nutanix as the enterprise cloud software, lets them create their own private cloud and then give those services to the developers kinda stuff. So it's a natural transition as a company for us. We got to start from the cloud operators, now we're exposing the cloud services from the cloud operators to the cloud consumers. Essentially the developers. >> Greg, up on stage you talked about cloud native, and your premise is that cloud native is a term for a methodology, not necessarily that it's born in the cloud. Maybe help explain that a little bit, and you know, we think Nutanix is mostly in data centers today, so, you know, why isn't this just saying, "No, no, no, we can be cloud native, too." >> Fair point, and I think we're not alone in that as well, in being an enterprise infrastructure company that was looking at enabling cloud native applications, our cloud native architecture within the private data center Say look, really it's a form of doing distributed computing, right, and that's the core to it, right? So you have a stateless, ephemeral infrastructure. You're not upgrading things, you know, you're blowing it away and rebuilding it. There's some core things like that, that will move across whether it be in the cloud or on prem. And of course you need tooling for that, right, 'cause that's not the methodology most enterprise developers or operators are really going through, right, so everything's pets, not much cattle. We're really trying to change that quite a bit, and that's both enabling technology but it's also the practices that people will deploy. And we're seeing is, it's not so much us trying to sell this it's more like hey, we're used to this in the cloud, why can't we do this on prem in our private data center where we have all of our data, and the other services that we need to interact with, like, that's where the demand's really coming from. So it's that mass of data they want to interact with with the type of architecture that they've gotten used to for rapid development and deployment. >> So one other thing, you mentioned pets versus cattle. One of the things I've been seeing from, you know, an IT ops perspective is you need a good ecosystem of management products around your pets or your cattle to be able to make it cattle, right? If you don't have the tooling, you're gonna do manual interaction, and it's going to become pets. So I'm wondering, you know, in that cloud native space, how are you helping the IT ops to actually make it a cattle experience, and you know, towards management or monitoring, or backup stuff like that? >> So, you know, a lot of that is surrounded around Kubernetes, right, as a center of mass. So it's not just us doing it, it's us pulling in a lot of the support and ecosystem that is being built by the community for that and leveraging that piece. And then we have other things we'll either add onto that as it integrates with our platform and some of the capabilities there, or things that we may do, just again, pure open source. Give you a couple examples of that, so I mentioned Epoch on stage, right, so it's sort of something that brings additional metrics to Prometheus. So in addition to CPU and memory storage consumption, you're actually getting latency and other more business metrics that you might be using to trigger things in Kubernetes, like auto-scaling. I don't necessarily always scale on CPU or memory, maybe it's a customer experience that's difficult to measure The other thing is because we have the storage layer underneath, you know, we look at doing things like, again it's early in Kubernetes, but snapshotting from within Kubernetes. Right, so if we have a CSI provider, why not from within Kubernetes let an application or a container trigger a snapshot. Underneath our storage layer will take that snap and then it becomes an object that's available from within Kubernetes. So there's a whole lot of things happening. >> I just want to add a couple of comments to that. This pets versus cattle is standardization, right, like we're talking about it. In typical, old legacy enterprises there are let's take the example of databases. Like, every application team has their own databases they are trying to pass, they're all trying to do management around it kind of stuff. When we do a couple of servers, like we looked at around 2,400 databases for a typical company, they have 400 different configurations of the software. And so like this is one of the biggest companies that we talking about kind of stuff. With that kind of stuff they cannot manage cloud, obviously. This is not no more a cattle kind of stuff. But how do you bring that kind of standardization, right? That is where the Era as a product is actually coming into this. We are trying to standardize, but when you try to standardize these database environments for on premise enterprise cloud, you have to do it at their terms. What I meant to try to say is when you try to go for public cloud, you have this catalog 11204 pull the node to PSE5, you can only create databases with whatever the software the public cloud guys are doing it. But on premise needs are slightly different. So that is where Nutanix, Era, and this products will come into. We allow to people to create the cloud, and then we allow them to create their own catalog of software that they can standardize. So that is what I call standardization at their customer terms, that's what we're trying. >> And let me add to that, though. It also brings in this convenience, 'cause not only is it coming up with standardize, but we've made it even more convenient, right, because now a developer can go provision their own database, they're gonna get a standard configuration for what that is, and so you made it easier for developers and you're getting something that is more cattle-like. >> Bala, I think you're in a good seat to be able to actually give us a little bit of independent commentary, you know. The movement of databases is one of the hottest topics in the industry. I haven't seen whether Andy Jassy was sparing back with Larry Ellison, you know, at re:Invent this week, but you know, we've been watching the growth of things like Postgres, and lot of these changes, you know, Era sits clearly in that space. So what do you seeing from customers, you know, the modernization of applications is, you know, what I call the long pole in the tent. It's the toughest thing for me to be able to do. I said we usually want to first, you know, you modernize your platform, Nutanix helps with that, public cloud helps with that, and then I can modernize my application. You know, database tends to be, it's the stickiest application that we have in the industry. So what are you seeing? >> Yeah, so there are two class of applications that we see. This space is completely green field We are starting off completely. People love cloud-like experience and cloud native databases that's where the public cloud can kind of try to help them. But if you see 70 to 80% of the money still is with all the traditional apps. You're trying to now cloudify them. The cloud native stack that we talk about, the cloud native database, is not going to the game. Like you really need to think about how do you kind of take these big, giant databases that are there with Oracles, and DBTools, that kind of stuff but give the cloud-like experience, right? So the actually very difficult game for any public cloud, that's why you don't see rack provisioning and a dot list is still not there, or even if JCP natively. Oracle does that but little bit difficult. Data gravity forces people to come to on premise, that's my humble take on this, right. But how do you build, how do you make this gray area I call it a brown field, and convert them into more of a consumer-centered kind of stuff? That's where Era actually tries to play. It has two roles that, if you have existing databases, we turn to kind of convert them into more of a cloud-like databases for you, or if you have a green field then we can get you directly onto the cloud native experience. Or if you're trying to migrate from technology to other technology, definitely we would like to help. These are the three things that we try to do through Era kinda of stuff, yeah. >> So looking forward, you know, we're starting out with databases, you know, making that simple, making that small so that there's less friction in that. So maybe a question for Greg, so what's the future for Nutanix in, you know, enabling other services, other cloud-like services on a Nutanix platform going forward? >> In addition to databases. >> Exactly. >> Yeah, so we're a big proponent of standard APIs, as I talked about, right, so we have that in storage for a long time, that makes things easy with databases. We have a standard client talking to standard database backends. As we see other core building blocks, those are the kind of things that we're gonna want to build and deliver as well. So S3 is a defacto standard for object storage, for instance, so people are following that. You'll get Pub/Sub with Kafka APIs, Druid. There's a whole bunch of things, especially from the Apache project, that have become sort of defacto standards, so really it's like, okay, well which building blocks are needed by developers to build these applications that they want, and how do we really work the the community to establish those as open standards. 'Cause we really want, you know, I talked about the portability quite a bit. So we don't want anyone locked into our stack or anyone else's stack, it's like hey, let's build with the best toolkits, let's use standard, open APIs, and then developers get what they need which is portability, or run the application where they want to run it. So that's our strategy of going forward. >> Into some-I-tab we have easy to equal end, which is AHV, we have EBS equal end, we have our called Acropolis Block Services. We have S3 equal end, which is called Buckets, we have database RDS equal end, we have Era, and now we are going with content as which we call Carbon. So we are trying to kind of look at those critical services for anyone, especially for developers, to say that man, it's all ecosystem, it's not like one piece, single piece It's not this compute, it's not this storage, but it is an ecosystem of services that we need to kind of predict. >> Want to just come back to what we were talking beginning, the relationship with developers. How much of what Nutanix does is really kind of the IT ops that then enables developers, and how much direct developer engagement is it? Like, you know, is there development activity here at the conference going on that we should know about? I know that Nutanix goes to a lot of the developer shows. But maybe if you could give us some commentary on that. >> Yeah, I can start that, it's a path, right? So currently we certainly have the bulk of our interactions are gonna be on the IT operations side, and so it's only through them, because their customers are the developers that we really interact primarily today. But you should see that changing quite a bit, and I think that you'll that with the tools that we're providing directly to developers to interact with you know, through the APIs like they have Era. So for instance, if IT has deployed Era internally, then if I want a database I can go straight to those APIs or command line to grab those things. And you'll see that continuously be a trend as we let developers interact directly with our products. >> Just to give you an example, right, within the company, within Nutanix, we are drinking our own champaign, right. So we are operating a private cloud and we are exposing our APIs to all our developers. Today, if someone wants a database in Nutanix, they go to a control plane and say I want a database. Right, that's the API. How the infrastructure is getting, it's a means to an end for them, right. That's where we are going with our customers, too, hey, here is how you build your private cloud, here is how you expose all your service end points for different services, and your developers just need to enjoy them. And then there's a building aspect of it, that's the nuance that private clouds need to deal with. How do they charge the developers, how do they charge meter, that kind of stuff that people will talk about today. >> You know, I definitely heard when I talked to all the product teams, especially everything in Zai cloud, you know, extensibility with APIs is built into everything you're doing. So we're going to have to leave it there. Greg, we're gonna be catching up with you and the Nutanix team in two weeks at the Cube-Con show in Seattle. So thanks so much for joining us. Bala, pleasure, thanks for giving us all the update. And thank you, we're gonna be back with more coverage here. From Nutanix .Next 2018 in London, I'm Stu Miniman and Joep Piscaer is my cohost. Going to be do a Dutch session in a second, so be sure to stay with that. First foreign language interview on theCUBE, and thank you for watching. (electronic music)