>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the theCUBE covering IBM Think. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Valanti and welcome back to the IBM Think 2020 digital event experience. This is the afterglow, the after thoughts, the post halo effect. Mani Dasgupta is here. She's the Vice President of Brand and Product Marketing at IBM. Great to see you again, thanks for coming back on Mani. >> Thank you Dave, it's fantastic to be here after Think which has been super successful for us, so excited to have this chat. >> You know it's really nice, one of the silver linings of these digital events is you can actually have these kinds of conversations in an afterglow, so I want to get right into it. Mark Foster kind of set things up for the division and the service, he talked about a lot of customers. He talked about the cognitive enterprise, and he gave really three sort of arcs of his content discussion. One was the market making platforms, the second was intelligent work flows, and the third is the whole enterprise experience in humanity and he tied it in to the whole COVID-19 pandemic. I wonder if you could give us your thoughts, and maybe an example? >> Sure, absolutely, sure can. You know the cognitive enterprise is a framework that businesses can adapt as they go on forward with their business transformation journey. The market making platform is in simple terms, its how do you put yourself in the route for growth? Do you need to look for new customers, do you need to look for new markets? What's your competitive advantage? Build a platform, or create a platform which signifies competitive advantage for you. So that's the first piece of it. The second piece of it pertains to the operations of the company. How well are you run? How efficient are you? How effective are your processes? How have you been able to apply the latest and greatest in technologies? Edge, 5G, automation, artificial intelligence. How are you able to apply those technologies to make your processes work better for you? So that's the second big piece. And the third piece is keeping your customers at the core of whatever you do. So the experience of the customers, the updated and newer demands of the customers. How do you address that with the human at the center of it, right? The empathy that I was talking about when we spoke last, before and during Think. It's truly important especially in these times, every company is trying to figure out, in this scenario, how do they keep their business on the growth track? And the cognitive enterprise framework helps them on this journey. >> Was there an example that came out of Think that you can point to that is reflective of this? >> Absolutely, there were actually three great case studies that clients and colleagues who joined us during Think, we had the CEO of Yara, we had Shell and we had Frito Lay. A quick example is Frito Lay, and I bring them up because this is a brand that everybody recognizes, in fact they are now in 94% of all US households. And these are name brands like your chips, especially when we are all stuck at home during this pandemic they are a name that quite often comes to mind, Frito Lay. So a good example of what they are having to deal with. They haven't changed their transformation trajectory, they have sped it up. They have just become way more agile, teams that were in different locations are now all near shore. If you think about this scenario right now, everybody is working on Webex, everybody is getting distributed agile to work, so everybody, nobody is at a disadvantage because they are somewhere in India or they are somewhere in Mexico, or they are somewhere in the US, they are all together right now working together on the same digital platform. So actually everybody's near shore. So they have sped up their direct to consumer channel, in the past one month they have been able to quickly pivot and bring snacks.com to people, everybody across the US, that's a very good example of how you can apply the changes around you to your advantage, and make sure that this contributes to the growth and success of their business, and we had Frito join us live during Think, if you want to see it you can go live to our, now on our on demand platform and watch them. >> One of the things that Mark Foster mentioned in his remarks was that a lot of executives might have been thinking prior to COVID that they wanted to shake things up a little bit. But it's risky, you know they're kind of reticent to do that well, things have been shaken up. And now they've got you know the perfect reason to disrupt their own business. And organizations have been very tactical, focus on the customer, really trying to keep the lights on, managing cash, et cetera, but as we start to come out of this, they're beginning to think of the more midterm impacts, they're rethinking the ideal customer profile, and the value proposition in this new reality. So how should customers think about getting started on this journey of the cognitive enterprise if they haven't started already? >> You know it's, the good thing is the technology right now is available to us, even if people want to get started they can do it right now. One of the ways that we have been advising our clients to get started who haven't get started this journey, is to come together in a distributed agile framework, what we call the IBM Garage our Co-Creation Workshop, put the customer at the center of it and create an empathy map. Around what is the problem that we are trying to solve? What's the most important thing that that particular business is trying to solve? And for every business it may be a different answer, right? And so it's not prescriptive, its a place where you can come and lay out the cards on the table and figure out what's the right next step for your business, and then we can use the same model to unpack the problem into solvable components and apply technology to very quickly show results. The beauty of this is not just an MVP, this is actually solving real world problems, and it is doing it at global scale. That's the beauty of it and I think that's where we should start. >> You know a lot of these big events, the big physical events, of course we love them it's something theCUBE has been doing for 10 years, but the disappointing thing is oftentimes after the event everybody disappears, they go back to work and it's sort of forgotten. The great thing about these digital events is you can kind of continue the discussion, not unlike what we're doing now, but also you have these Think Summits, and you're going to be connecting the dots in the thread from Think all the way through until this thing ends and even beyond I would predict, that digital is here to stay, at least an event standpoint, and a hybrid, and other businesses. So give us the update on the Think Summits, how do we get more information, what are they all about? >> Absolutely, for more information is always available on our on demand platforms, so you can go onto IBM.com/think, but what you said Dave is so important. That this is not a one and done, we want to keep the conversations running, we want to keep engaging with everybody who has come last week to have an engaging discussion with us, we will continue this in June, in Europe, in different cities we have a number of Think Summits. This will be followed with other Think Summits across the globe. Now as IBM we feel we have a responsibility not just that we create content and thought leadership that is consumed by millions of people across the globe, we do it in a way that is global. So we want to make sure that you and I today are talking in English, that we are able to have our colleagues in China are able to have the same conversation in the language that they prefer, and so in Japan and so on and so forth, IBM being the truly global company that we are, we want to make sure that the conversations also have nuances that are impacting these countries in real time, in the situation that we are in, not all companies are in the same space in the curve, some are recovering, some are bouncing back, some are just getting into this scenario that's all around us. So the remedy and the routes that business will take, is also slightly different. So we want to make sure we are very customized, we want to make sure we are really very relevant to that audience. So follow us on the Think Summits across the globe, as the new dates are keeping on newer dates are getting announced on the Think platform, so that's ready to go. The one last thing I would also say Dave, is that at this time what's very important is that not all tech is created equal, and not all companies are created equal. What's the cost of bad advice and so I think it's very important to be mindful of who you engage with. And make sure that we are not taken advantage of in these kind of scenarios. Be very mindful of how how well your partner understands your business, how well your partner understands what could go wrong. And plan for it, and not just show but be there with your clients, with your customers throughout the journey, and take them back to the path of growth. >> Yeah that whole notion of business resilience and not only as a defensive move, but also something that you can lean into, really try to grow your business, there's a lot of learning going on, a lot of great content on the IBM Think Digital Experience site. Of course theCUBE.net. Mani, thanks so much for coming back on, and breaking down IBM Think, and giving us a forward look to the Think Summits. Great to have you. >> Absolutely my pleasure Dave, thank you. >> And thank you for watching everybody, this is Dave Valanti for theCUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat instrumental music)

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security in SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas everybody, my name is Dave Valanti and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. We are covering the Open Systems networking event. They're here as part of the two Gartner events here this week. On the heels of AWS Reinvent, a lot of action going on in Las Vegas. Steve Garson is here, he's the president and founder of SD-WAN experts consultancy in this space. Steve, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Glad to be here. >> So tell us a little bit more about your background. >> Okay. I've been in the networking space since about 2007. Initially, my company was called MPLS Experts, when companies were migrating to MPLS and not understanding, well, what carriers should I use. I helped companies re-engineer their WAN back then. As that developed, the WAN optimization came into the scene and I helped companies evaluate the right WAN optimization solution. Then I had the foresight to see the potential of SD-WAN. I pivoted the business, called it SD-WAN Experts and started writing for network world and blogging on my own sites and with a number of other websites. I've been helping enterprises worldwide re-engineer their network, make a WAN transformation that's secure and supports easy management and save a lot of money. >> So, awesome. So you have a practitioners background, right? >> Exactly. >> That's fair to say. So you know your stuff, let's get into it. So let's talk trends, I mean. At a high level we always talk at theCUBE about the cloud and how that's affecting network traffic. Going from North South to East West has a major impact on security and performance. What are the big trends in the market space that you see, that are relevant? >> Well, we see consolidation obviously. (coughs) Obviously moving to the cloud is a big driver. The WAN has been designed for a data center with an MPLS network. That's a hub and spoke architecture that really doesn't make sense anymore. Companies are moving to Office 365, they're using Salesforce.com, they're using all kinds of softwares and service. That just doesn't work with a data center. So what companies have traditionally done is they have regional secure gateways and they're sending the traffic from an office to a secure gateway and now they're going through the internet. It just is convoluted, the traffic is tromboned and the latency is higher than it has to be. They're spending more money for these expensive circuits that, ultimately, they're going to the internet anyways. >> So, there's a lot of technical debt out there. How does a company go from point A to point B without spending a zillion dollars or bringing in, you know, a huge SI to re-architect everything. Is there a path that you can advise customers, or is it just every situation is a snowflake? >> You could probably define a half-dozen different basic situations that are snowflakes. Essentially you're moving to, you know, if you have an MPLS network companies typically will need more bandwidth and instead of getting more MPLS bandwidth they'll add internet connectivity. Using SD-WAN they'll root traffic over the internet that's supposed to go to the internet. The things that are still required on their MPLS network will stay in play. When those MPLS contracts expire, then there's a question of, do I need MPLS? That's a complicated question to answer. I will not say that you can eliminate MPLS, I'll always say it depends. It depends on the latency between paths on your network. I presented a paper at O-NUG a few weeks ago in New York, in which I analyzed with a lot of empirical data. Latency, packet-loss, and standard deviation of that latency between paths like from Tokyo to New York. You might a have 200 millisecond latency. But your standard deviation over the internet might be 200 milliseconds. So that means, potentially, if you're using only the internet, you might have 400 milliseconds latency. Can your application work appropriately? >> If you need 200 guaranteed, you've got a problem. Right? >> Right, exactly. In a situation like that, you might want to use MPLS or there's a new category of connectivity called SDCore which is an MPLS network in the Cloud that you access through an IPSec VPN to pops that are typically within 20 milliseconds. So you get that stability, but you cut the cost dramatically. >> Now the Edge just confuses us even further, right? IOT, The Edge, I mean certainly a trend everybody's talking about. From your standpoint, how real is it? Is it here today? Is it coming? What is the effect going to be on all these trends? >> You mean, the Edge? >> Yeah, the Edge, IOT. >> I mean it's a complicated thing. I mean the Edge. >> The industrial internet. >> Yeah, I mean, when people talk about the Edge today the Edge used to be their router and SD-WAN devices are supplanting the router. Gartner has indicated that by 2023 nobody is going to be buying routers. Everybody is going to be using an SD-WAN device which will route. >> Amazon, we were at Reinvent last week, they might even look at the data center as the Edge. But, I digress. Let's talk about the horses on the track. Lay out the competitive environment right now. We're here at the Open Systems event. Where do they fit in the market landscape? >> Open Systems is a very unique company where people will say, who's Open Systems competitor. They really don't have a competitor because they're unique. Open Systems is a company that has a secure SD-WAN which means there's a full security stack with SD-WAN. So you have the benefits of SD-WAN, but instead of having to deal with all these different security applications like HASBY, Data-loss Prevention, and IPSIDS, authentication, VPN integration with active directory. They do all of that and it's all managed. It's a very unique offering. >> So the competition is Do-It-Yourself, right? >> The competition is Do-It-Yourself or use a managed service provider who probably doesn't have all the pieces that work together. Open Systems has been doing this for 25 years. They have developed what the customers want. I went to one of their global customer meetings. They called a cap meeting last year. Each year they get input from the customers as far as what kind of enhancements they want to see. They actually take that input and the following year the customers, I was amazed, the customers just are thrilled that the company listens and the company implements what they ask. >> Again, I've mentioned there's a couple of Gartner shows going on this week. Sounds like Open Systems wouldn't really fit cleanly into a magic quadrant. >> They don't. They don't because they're not an Edge device. They're a complete Edge security solution that's managed. >> We talked about this at theCUBE, John Ferrs has brought up several times that the magic quadrants will have to evolve as these managed services, the Cloud certainly affects that. As more and more things get co-opted by the services, you know, economy. But, your thoughts on magic quadrants, how customers are using them. My understanding is, today, you heard a talk from a Gartner analyst that was helping people understand the do's and don'ts of a magic quadrant. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, well what Gartner was talking about today is how many people use the magic quadrant inappropriately. They think this tells us which companies we should look at and really what it's telling you is how that customer's strategy fits in with the market place. But you really have to look at what your requirements are. You can't just say, okay I'm going to look at quote the top three SD-WAN vendors. What are your requirements? That's what my firm does as a consultant is we help companies figure out what their requirements are to find out what's the right solution. A story I love to tell is a company that spent a year evaluating SD-WANs. They were about to make a decision and the CIO basically told the committee after a year of evaluations hey before we sign a contract, let's get an independent sanity check that we've made the right decision. I met with the company, spent a couple weeks assessing their requirements, and I know all of the major technologies and I knew that what they had selected wasn't correct. But you can't tell a client that they've made a mistake. So we set up a meeting with the vendor, which was a carrier, and their technology provider and the committee and I asked the hard questions that the vendor couldn't answer. Which made it really clear to the client that this is the wrong solution. They went a completely different direction. >> Saved them a lot of money. I love those stories. What's your website? >> SD-WAN-experts.com >> Alright, Steve thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Sharing your knowledge. >> Thank you. >> Awesome stuff. Really appreciate it. >> Pleasure. >> Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back from Las Vegas Cosmo hotel. Open Systems networking event. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Veritas Vision 2017. Brought to you by Veritas. >> And we're back at Veritas Vision 2017 in Las Vegas. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Valanti and I'm here with my co-host, Stuart Miniman, and we've been unpacking the innovations and the evolution of Veritas at Veritas Vision over the past two days. Shahin Pirooz is here, he's the CTO of Data Endure. >> Shahin: Thank you for having us. >> Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. Digitally resilient. That's an interesting and powerful and loaded phrase. [Shahin] Sure. What does it mean to be digitally resilient? >> Ultimately, we're trying to get our customers digital resilience, and what that means to us is that your people have access to their data whenever they need it, wherever they need it, in a secure and protected manner. >> I got to follow up on that, but before I do, give us an overview of your company, what you guys do and what your specialty is. >> We're a system integrator and we happen to resell stuff as well, including Veritas, and we're about 32 years old. We evolved from very early days in the tech space, and continue to evolve the company and today, have four practice areas. Those practice areas include security and compliance, data center and cloud, the information management practice, which is where Veritas clearly falls into, and finally, we have a systems and storage practice, which is primarily one of our biggest practice areas in terms of revenue. We have, go ahead. >> [Dave} Go Ahead, please, carry on. >> We have customers. All of the biggest names you'd imagine in the Silicon Valley. Cisco, Facebook, Yahoo, Google, and then a series of customers below that tier as well. >> Really, those customers are relying on you to do their integration? To help with their deployments, get value faster? >> Yep, CenturyLink is the largest Veritas net backup appliance deployment in the world, and we implemented that platform for them. >> Interesting. You've got these heavy engineering driven companies, and they just what? They just don't want to waste time on stuff that's not their main business? >> So typically, it's like any IT organization. You've got a series of projects and those projects are spread out across the engineers that you have. Then you have something that you have to get done that's more urgent and more critical. You've got to re-vamp your backup infrastructure, for example, or you got to build out a new backup as a service offering, in CenturyLink's case. And while the engineers have the skillset to do it, they're also doing 60 other things during the day. So they bring companies like us in to get it done quickly, get it done accurately. Then, there's a level of reliance on not only our technical depth, but the access to visibility of what we see in other places as well. Whereas, your engineers might be focused on a single thing within a company, we see a lot of different environments. So when we run into problems, it's not the first time we've run into it, and we can get through it much more quickly. >> So this idea of digital resilience is really interesting to me. They say you should skate to the puck. I think you're really skating to the puck as most customers haven't transformed digitally even though everybody's talking about it, but what I said, it's really a rich and loaded phrase, what I'm inferring from it is if you're going to go digital, you better not bolt on resilience. You better design it in. I mean, that's sort of my inference. >> Shahin: That's exactly right. >> Well, talk about it a little bit. >> Typically, there's a, we look at the consumption and cloud is a big part of this journey for both our Veritas and ourselves. We look at cloud consumption as a journey that happens in five phases, or maturity levels, as we like to call them. So the cloud maturity model that I talk about often is level one is usually companies that start consuming backup to the cloud. The first step is we're going to backup our data to the cloud target and remove tape from our environment. Second step is consumption of storage. Then, you start moving some virtual machines, doing lift and shifts to the cloud at Level three, and Level four is when that digital transformation starts to happen. Where you're starting to build consumed cloud native data bases instead of just migrating your database to the cloud. Then, Level five is typically the startups of the world, which are building cloud native applications and companies will eventually get to the point where they're building those cloud native applications. >> It's an interesting model. Cloud's getting more and more complicated. We said some of those companies that started up, out, cloud native, everything built there. >> Shahin: Yes. >> Sometimes, they're pulling things to another cloud or building their own data centers. We're finding, you know, they hyperscale companies look and sound a little bit more like some of the enterprise vendors and some of the enterprise vendors are going there and you've got companies like Veritas that are going to play everywhere. What's that dynamic? Especially Silicon Valley tends to be early on these. What's kind of that macro level? There is no typical customer. What are some of the dynamics you're seeing with the customers in cloud? >> It's a simple scale calculation. There's a point, there's a tipping point, where cloud becomes too expensive, and it's cheaper to have some fraction of your infrastructure running in house. It's that hybrid cloud model we've been talking about for the last decade and nobody really has a good handle on what it is. Run some of the cloud in-house, some of it in a public or multiple public clouds. What you're seeing in the Netflix's of the world who went all in and then back out is exactly that. They got to a point where they realize the amount of money that they're paying on a monthly basis to the public cloud providers is outpacing what they could do themselves internally. So they cut back to that tipping point. There is definitely sense in having infrastructure in the cloud, but there is that point where it doesn't scale out, work very well financially. >> Did you have any guidance that you can give people as to when they're going to hit that? I mean, we look at everything. You know, you talk to Amazon, they'll say no, no. We're always the cheapest, we can use reserve entities. Heck, they just gave, you know, by the second pricing. It's always kind of it depends, but what has your experience been? >> Shahin: It really is and it depends. But the short answer is that that tipping point is different for every single company. If you're a company who's never going to get two billions of users accessing your infrastructure, you're probably never going to hit that tipping point. You can be all cloud and you can be cloud native and be happy. Whereas if you're a Dropbox or a Netflix or somebody like that, who built all in or work day, for example. All of them are now looking at we need to build our own infrastructure to support that scale that can't keep up with us financially. >> I wonder if you could talk about some of the big picture. We touched on cloud, what are the big picture trends that you see driving customer behavior and how is it affecting their IT and how are you responding? >> I would say that there's two primary things that we're focused on to help customers address what is coming. Number one is compliance. Our security and compliance practice, we lead with compliance as opposed to all the other managed security providers. We effectively go to market with this notion that no matter who you are, you have some sort of regulatory concern, whether it's enforce by yourself or you have a third party or a government that's enforcing some regulatory concern on you. There's not a company out there that doesn't have something that they have to deal with on a regular basis. Our positioning is get your head around your compliance and that dictates what your infrastructure looks like, what your application consumption looks like, what your cloud consumption looks like. But you have to start from that place of here is how we have to deliver services and here's the controls we have to have in place. Then, do we have the right tools, technologies, people, and policies to do that. That's our approach to market. That's one side of the answer. The other side of the answer is storages continuously growing in leaps and bounds. We have this ridiculous amount of data that's stockpiling. We're all hoarders of storage, if you will. We don't know what to do with it. We're running out of storage places. We're throwing it in Amazon, we're throwing it in Google. We're throwing it in all these places and just paying monthly storage fees. That data is critical business data that if you can get and analyze it, you can make important business decisions about what your customers are doing, how they're buying things, what products they're buying, what products are not selling, and make fundamental business shifts and changes and all you have to do is put a layer of analytics above this massive hoards of data that we're just continuing to pile and pile. >> Where does Veritas fit in to this equation? >> In all of that. The 360 offering that Veritas has brought to market, a big part of that is compliance. If you look at the messaging on GDPR, that's just one compliance that they're focusing on. That applies across the board. Having visibility into all your data with their data insight platform, for example, who's accessing it, where they're accessing it, what types of data it is, the classification of data. That's the first level of being able to understand your unstructured data and know does it meet all the controls that I have to adhere to in order to deliver health information controls, or personal information controls, whatever your industry control might be. Whether it's PCI or GPR or HIPAA, you name it, it gives you the, you apply the compliance onto the data and have reports that let you know if you're in compliance or not. On the storage side, there's analytics within the backups as well as the data that give you visibility into what you've been protecting and what you've been backing it up and where that data resides on a global level so not only what but where is it and who's accessing it. It's giving you all that visibility to try to get a handle on what it is, where it is and what valuable information is in there. >> And so you're bring this to market today. >> Shahin: We did. >> I mean, you got some pretty advanced customers. >> Shahin: Yes. >> Do you feel like you're on sort of the leading edge of the bell curve? >> We have customers that are on the leading edge of that bell curve, and we have customers that are starting that journey. They are starting to realize, GDPR is a perfect example, not everybody's sure what it's going to mean to them. It's like when HIPAA and PCI came out way back when. Everybody was like, "That's not my problem." And now everybody has to deal with it. I had many hospitals back then who wouldn't do anything, wouldn't do anything, and then the fines came, and they're like, "Okay, hurry. "Let's do something." >> Dave: Yeah, right. >> So similarly, the compliance aspect of this, we're seeing a lot more traction on because GDPR's only about six months away. >> I mean, it's a two sided coin, right? Because on the one hand, it's this sort of boondog for all the guys that can service those accounts, but on the other hand, it takes dollars away, potentially, from other more strategic initiatives, and in the case of HIPAA, you can't even get your own information out of the hospitals let alone other people's. What's your thought on GDPR? Is it as big as these other initiatives? It feels that way, but we don't really know yet, right? >> The risk, where GDPR is different than all the other regulatory concerns is that any individual in any of the European Union can come and say, "I want you to delete all the information "you have about me." And you have to. >> Dave: You have to prove it. >> You have to prove that you did it and that you don't have any of it. The control structures are making it difficult for companies to say, "How am I going to do this?" That's where products like the 360 solution that Veritas is bringing to market help give visibility into the data and so, you know, I see Joe Smith across my unstructured data. I see it in these file servers and this place and the other place. So you have visibility into where Joe Smith is and can take action to, actually, delete the data and show it's not there anymore with audits. It could be very real. Whether it's going to kick in and go live in July as it's supposed to or they're going to continue to extend it as they did with HIPAA and PCI, it's unclear at this point. >> Talk about that a little bit. Is that, sort of, what happened with HIPAA and PCI? But that was the U.S. government. >> Shahin: Yeah. >> It wasn't the EU. You know, again, we don't really know. You've seen some of the crackdowns by the EU on Google and others and so maybe they won't be as forgiving, who knows. >> They may not be as forgiving and I think it'll get dialed in a little bit more. I think, when it comes out and they realize the expense in trying to do this, is going to hamper business. I think it'll get dialed back a little bit. Not that you have to delete the data, for example, but you have to prove that you have it controlled and secured and somebody can't get to it. >> Dave: I mean, do you think that's really ultimately what it's going to be is the processes around it? >> Shahin: Yeah. >> It's going to be as important as everything else. >> Shahin: At the end of the day, All any of these audits and the regulatory concerns can do is tell you you have to have these processes. That's the best they can go hope for. It really is nothing more than a process conversation. But process without technology can be really burdensome and expensive on a company. >> Dave: Yeah, because the risk is that you say, "Okay, we got these processes in place. "Yes, we did it and here's the information." And then if you get hacked, and there's Joe Smith is still in there, oops. And then that somehow gets published on Wikileaks. >> Rut-roh. >> Exactly. >> So Shahin, as an industry, we've been talking for a while about how important data is, how we can leverage data. When we're talking GDPR, it's like well, you know, your data can be dangerous for you. Where are your customers? How do they, actually, do they value data? Is data still a challenge for them, or maybe give us a little bit of the spectrum of where you're seeing customers. >> It's a wide range. We've got customers that are in the research space, and they're doing, for example, genomics research, and their data is everything to them. We've got customers in the semi-conductor space, and they're building chips and their designs and they're information about how each chip design is improving from version to version. All that data is important to them and when they go back to do new chip designs, they have to be able to look back at that data and they do a lot of analytics. But then, there's industries that just keep the data because they think it's going to be important and they don't use it, they don't take advantage of it. They don't realize the risk associated with it either. It's the number one thing I used to, I've been a CECO for over 15 years, and the one thing I used to say to customers is, "If you're going to keep your data, "if you have a policy for data retention, "make sure that it's not longer "and creates an exposure for you "than it needs to be." Because keeping data too long can be, because you have to present it if you're in a litigation. So that's the challenge with these piles of data we keep keeping. The reality is customers are all the way to the extreme of using it heavily in deep analytics to I have no idea what I have, I just have piles of data. >> Dave: The variation on the Einstein quip, keep data as long as you need to but no longer. >> Shahin: Exactly. >> All right, Shahin, we have to go. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> We appreciate it. >> My pleasure. >> All right. We're in a rapid sprint to the end of day two here at Veritas Vision 2017. We'll be right back. This is theCUBE.