Upbeat techno music >> Live, from Barcelona Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Cube's exclusive coverage, here in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier. With hosts this week: Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman, here all for three days. So, we're wrapping up Cisco Live 2019, here in Europe. Guys, we're breaking it down. We had some great editorial segments, where we unpacked everything here. But, as we look back over the show, I want to get your observations and insights into, kind of what's going on with Cisco, the secret formula around why DevNet- their developer program; which also has Devnet Create, which is cloud native- is growing very rapidly. Huge resonance with the customer base in Cisco. It's created a revitalization of Cisco, as a company. And you can see that permeating throughout the organization with their branding, how the teams are organized, and they're engineering their products. Is this the future model for all infrastructure companies that don't have a cloud? And why is that successful? And then other observations. Guys, we'll start with DevNet. The very successful program, led by Susie Wee, Senior Vice President and CTO, executing flawlessly how to transform a community, without killing the old to bring in the new. Stu. >> Yeah, John, it's been fascinating to watch. We've talked about the ground effort, a lot of hard work by a small team, build a community. Last year, over 500,000. We hear they're at 560,000 people using this tool. Four and a half years ago, you know, Cisco- mostly a hardware company. It really- what I've seen over the last year or two, they were talking about software, but I've really seen deliverables here. You talk about CloudCenter Suite, you talk about the DNA Center platform; if they're a hardware company, there's a disconnect between what's going on in the DevNet zone, and what's happening in the company. But, we've seen rallying around software solutions. I've heard from the partnering system, from the customers: this isn't Cisco of a few years ago. Very fragmented, lots of lines of businesses, lots of different things. I remember back when Chambers announced, like, "oh, we've got, you know, 37 different adjacencies we're going to go into." No. Now it's: solution suites and platforms and, you know, DevNet- it is a unifying force of what they're doing. That's a great term, John. Love it. And see, that transformation of being a software company, that DevNet set some of the groundwork, and we heard the CIO of Cisco saying that, you know, security and the developer activity, are his partners in crime. Helping him, driving change, and... >> And they did a nice clever play on words: Data Centered. And that's kind of a shot across the bough of the classic data center, which shows it is a cloud world. And data is a center part of it. And, I think the API-centric economy's certainly doing it. But, Dave, I want to get your thoughts, because you asked a question to Susie Wee of DevNet- a very important question Other companies couldn't be successful with developer programs. Cisco has been. What's the secret formula? Well, I asked Amanda Whaley, who's her right-hand woman around what's going on, and she said, "well, there's no secret formula..." Guess what. There is a secret formula. They're being humble. But seems to be content- seems to be the unifying force of the community. They understood the need, they saw the future around cloud native and API's, being a very important connection tissue- connective tissue, for this cloud native world, and an upstream path for Cisco. They understood the future, knew the need, and they provided great content. The sessions and the education are open, inclusive, very education oriented. But, conversations with their peers have been key. TheCUBE's been here, talkin' to... They treat everyone the same, not the big pitches. Real authentic and genuine content that allowed people to learn and grow, and connect with others. To me, I think that is kind of- this is one of my observations. Your thoughts, Dave, on that. >> Yeah, so... First of all, there is a secret formula. And, this is the new blueprint, or the blueprint that infrastructure companies should be following. Cisco's clearly leading there. I think it's content and community. And, they're used their programmability, of their infrastructure, and they've socialized that. They've developed the technology. They say big companies can't innovate; DevNet is a real solid innovation. And it's- we witnessed all week, people coming in, training, learning; these are network engineers. They're learning new skills. They're learning how to be developers. And that is, to me, a huge innovation in business model, in technology. It's creating a flywheel for them. So, they've created- they've come up with the idea, that the network is a data platform. And it's now, also, become an application development platform. On which, they're deploying applications all over the place. Edge, we heard applications being deployed in police vehicles! And so, this is a very important trend, and from what I can tell, they're way ahead of other infrastructure companies: HP, I don't see this, they talk that game. Dell EMC; we talked about code. You know, IBM trying to make it happen with Bluemix. Oracle owns Java, and it still sort of struggles to own the development, developer marketplace. >> So, Dave, I love what you say there. I saw Jack Welch speak a number of years ago, and he's like, "eh, people always tell me all the time that big companies can't innovate." He's like, "well, maybe big companies, but what are companies made up of? Companies are made up of people, and people can innovate." And I think that's- you know, the key there is, it was very people-focused. Absolutely, content. When you talk about what were the big sessions here: oh, they're doin' Java, they're doin' kubernetes. It's like, okay, wait: is there a connection to Cisco products? Absolutely. Is it a product pitch in a product training? There's plenty of that going here! People need that. People built their careers out of Cisco. But this new career? A big question question I had coming in, is: it's a multi-cloud world, you know... Infrastructure, developer, and everything. Cisco's a piece of that. You know, how do they make sure that they get- sticking this with them, and helping them to build their career, and move forward. There's going to be some nice activity, there. And, you get a good glow, and you know, Cisco makes themselves relevant in those communities. >> The other observation that I saw, and I want to get your reactions to it, guys, is: that we saw Scale- and we talk about this all the time in theCUBE. Scale is now table stakes, to compete in this global landscape. But, complexity with multi-cloud, and these things, is there. Every major inflection point in the industry- abstraction layers and software, and/or hardware advances- certainly, Moore's Law kicks in and helps that. But, it's been software abstractions that have really moved the needle, because that's where you can have complexity, and still remove it; from an integration standpoint, from a consumption standpoint. This seems to be- Cisco's buying into this, across the companies, Stu- software. Not just hardware. They've coupled it, but they all work together. This is the magic of DevNet, the magic of API's. It's the magic of an internet operating system. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, and look- we talked to a number of the companies that were acquired by Cisco over the last few years, and I think those are helping to drive some of the change. You have, of course, APT is the big one, Duo in security; companies that were born in the cloud, and helping to move that change along the way, and John, as you said, that unifying factor of, "we're rallying," it's not just, the new Chip Stubbs standing up on the- and saying, "you know, okay, we spent millions of dollars in developing this thing, everybody go out and sell that." It's now- there's co-creation, you're seeing that evolution of that partner ecosystem. And, it's a challenging change, but Cisco is, you know, moving in the right direction. >> It starts at the top, too, Stu. And, I wanted to make a point of- we learned, also- and this is learning for me. Chuck Robbins is behind all this, okay. The CEO has identified DevNet, and said, "this is strategic to our company." All new products now, that are introduced at Cisco, will have API support and a DevNet component. This is a radical change from Cisco of the past. This means that every solution, out of the box- literally- and software, will have that in there. So, with API's and DNA Center, those are two areas to me, that I think will really be a tell sign. If Cisco can execute on the DNA Center, and bring in API's and a DevNet- a real supporting community behind every product; I think the programmable network will be a reality. >> So, help me squint through this. You know, we talk to a lot of people, we go to a lot of shows. We're gettin' the Kool-Aid injection from the DevNet crew here- but, there's real substance. We're going to challenge some of the other companies that we work with. Some of the other infrastructure companies. The IT business, it's like the NFL. It's a copycat league. So, HP is going to say, "oh, we got ATI's." EMC, Dell: they're going to say the same thing. But, what's different here... I mean, clearly, you see it in the evidence of being able to cultivate a community of developers. >> Of course. >> Is it because of the network? >> No, it's management. HP has people- I've talked to them on theCUBE- that believe in cloud native. The company just doesn't fund them properly. They've got the smallest booth at the events, they're always, you know, a partner booth. They're part of an adjunct of something else. HP and Tony O'Neary, I don't think is funding open cloud native... Or certainly the marketing people, or product people, are not funding developers. >> Well, certainly not to the degree that Cisco is, obviously. >> There's no physical signs of any kind. We go to all the shows. >> What about Dell? What about Dell EMC? >> I think Dell EMC is kind of keeping it open, but there's no coherent group. I can't, in my mind's eye, point to one group, saying, "wow, they're kickin' ass." >> They got bigger problems now. It's how you consolidate the portfolio... >> What is- Michael Dell's state of goal, is for Dell to be the leading infrastructu&re company out there. There's a big hardware component of that. Absolutely, they participate in open source, they have some developer- API's are great, and they love standards. But, you know, this is a software movement. >> Yeah. >> Infrastructure's code is where they're going. VMWare, you know, they've made some pushes and moves, in this space... >> With developers? >> Not big developers... >> But, where are the developers? They had their operators on the IT side, so- back to Dell for a second. I think Dell Boomi is one signal, I've seen some sign there. But then- and that's still relatively new, but there's no one- there's no DevNet for Dell. On VMWare... >> People Labs is someone that is helping customers learn to code, do that kind of activity. But, you know, broadly across the Dell family, I haven't seen as much. >> I think VMware has a good ecosystem. I think they have good technical people. I don't think they need a developer program, per se. I think they need more of an operator program. I think that's VMWorld. You go to VMWorld and you see a lot of the partners, and how they integrate in. >> So, who are the favorites in the developer world? Obviously, Microsoft, and MUS... >> I mean, to me, it's Amazon- as a kid in a candy store, if you're a developer, you're all over Amazon. They have great stuff, they're always introducing new candy for the kids, all the time. New services; Amazon, number one. Azure, I think- not so much, in my mind. I think it's a lot of legacy, there, with Azure. But, they are- they're puttin' up the numbers on the profit, and you know my stand on Azure. I think Azure's sandbagging the numbers. But, the growth's there, it's going to be a matter of time. I think, Azure, is on the path. And they have the legacy developer program, world class, Microsoft. Microsoft is in the Cisco kind of wheelhouse. If they can transform their existing developer community, to be cloud native, they hit a home run. >> Yeah, but, John, you were talking about IT ops, out there; Microsoft does great in that. They've got a lot of big push there. They absolutely- the DotNet developers are there. You go to the Build conference, they play. We go to CUBECon, and a lot of the developer shows, and Microsoft, strongly there... >> No, let me just clarify my point. Let me clarify my point on Microsoft. Yes, they have a pre-existing, huge, development. They've been successful by the core competancy, no doubt. Cisco had a developer community: all networking. So, I think Microsoft has that legacy win, but they have to transform, and go the next level. The question is, do they have that. So- with Azure, I'm saying... >> What about Google? You guys were at the Google Cloud Show last year, we'll be there again in April. >> Yeah, you got to put Google in the mix. No doubt, I mean, no question. And, what about Red Hat? With IBM, on the developer front? >> Yeah, look, when you talk to the developers, and all the- a lot of the training their doing, if you've got LITIC skill sets, you've got a leg up in a lot of these environments. There are a lot of developers. It's not like people at Red Hat- some, are like, "oh wait, 6here's my first hoodie, and I'm going to learn to start code." They're already there. They're in this ecosystem. Red Hat: huge part- everybody we just talked about, Red Hat has a strong piece in there. That's one of the reasons why IBM bought them, Dave, is to help ride that wave. >> That's expensive, but they got the ingredients now. >> Red Hat's- check, I love those guys. Google has a lot of developers. They contribute heavily in open source. But, in terms of a Google community, that's really the CNCF in my mind. I think they're doing great job stewarting CNCF, but there's not a lot of people- users, in the Google ecosystem, they've got tons of developers. And, that's an opportunity for Google, in my opinion. >> Well, let's bring it back to Cisco. So, are we in agreement that they've got a leg up on the other infrastructure competitors... >> Yeah, I do. >> Specifically, as it relates to developers. >> They have a huge leg up, but I think it's even bigger that that. I think that this company is going to skyrocket, if they crack the code on network programmability. They're at the early stages now, you're talking about intro to Python, they give more advanced classes... Give them 24 months, if they continue momentum on DevNet, that's the tipping point, in my mind. Two years, they could own everything, and just be a whole other level company, if they crack the code. 'Cause the network is the value. Payload, network effect, this is the new normal in today's.. >> It's a big challenger. I mean, it's really not- and, the networking companies, for years, haven't been able... The Aristas, and the Junipers, haven't been able to unseed them, as the leader. They still got 60 percent of the marketplace. >> DMWare- DMWare and Cisco. >> DMWare, alright. >> DMWare and Cisco, 'cause DMWare and Amazon, that's a lethal combination. I think that's what I'm going to watch, the frenemy action between DMWare and Cisco. I think that level of where NSX, and what Cisco's trying to do, within ten paces of that working. >> Well, and Outpost is the hybrid infrastructure. Does that eventually become a multi-cloud play? Maybe it's a few years off, but... >> Yeah, absolutely. Look, we've watched- a year ago, we were saying, "okay, Google's a strong partner to Cisco, how 'about AWO's?" Well, they're integrating with kubernetes, they're starting to do more with AWS. It's always an interesting partnership with Amazon. Cisco's got lots of products in the marketplace, they're growing in that environment, but Amazon's learning from everybody and can potentially be a threat down the road to where Cisco is. And, I'd love to see Cisco doing more in the Microsoft space, too. >> We'll be watching Cisco, over the year. We're going to continue to go deep on Cisco. We got the Cisco Live North America Show on the cal... >> San Diego. >> This year in San Diego. So, we'll see theCUBE there, for multiple days, as well. Of course, we'll be following all the traction of software define everything, as the world goes completely cyber, dark, encrypted; whatever it is, we're going to be covering it. Well, thanks for watching. I want to give a shout out to the crew. Good job, guys. Well done. Thanks for watching theCUBE here, in Barcelona. I'm Jeff Furrier with Dave Vellonte, Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

(techno music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here at Barcelona, Spain of Cisco LIVE! Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier. Stu Miniman, and Dave Vellante here this week covering all the action in cloud, data center, multi-cloud. Our next is Jim Frey who's the Vice President's alliances at Kentik Technologies. Groundbreaking report that came of the Amazon Reinvent Conference. A lot of customers. Part of the multi-cloud discussion. Jim, great to see you, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks. It's Frye by the way. >> Frye. I'm sorry. >> Okay. No worries. No worries. >> Multi-cloud, your report has some interesting data. Talk about the survey, the results. What is is telling us? >> Yeah, we've been working hard at Kentik on extending our solution to start covering the cloud, multi-cloud server hybrid environments. And so we were at the AWS re:Invent show and we decided to take the opportunity to talk to some of the attendees and just sort of get their view of what some of the challenges are. So we talked to a little over 300 of em and we asked them a few questions not a, you know, rigorous thing, you're doing it on the show floor, right? But we found some really interesting things out of that. So the first thing is is that it really is a multi-cloud world already. More so even in hybrid. And so we had nearly 60 percent. 58 percent of the people who we talked to had more than just one of the cloud in play. They almost all had AWS of course cause it was an AWS event, but not all, of which is really interesting. But, you know, they either had AWS plus Google or plus Azure or plus some other cloud. More so than even hybrid. And so we also asked, are you using AWS in conjunction with you know, your own private data center or a third party host to go low center. Only 33 percent were doing that. So, we were surprised. And the reason that that is really significant is monitoring in management of these environments is much more complex in a, well. It's complex in a hybrid environment. It's even more complex in a multi-cloud environment. So it sounds like there's some real need for some help there. >> What are the challenges and what are the some of the complexities? What are the challenges in the monitoring? >> Well, so that was the next question. What's the key challenge, ya know? And usually whenever you ask someone about the challenges, the number one answer is always, oh, security is my biggest concern. That did not turn out to be the case here. The biggest overriding concern across all the different sort of levels of people we talked to was actually cost management. And cost management is, it was a bit surprising. You know, but, usually, you hear security, security, security and then something else. This was cost management either number one or number two. And number one for most of the constituencies. And in some of the subgroups, like VP level, SVP level, architect level, it was overwhelmingly the first choice. 40 and 50 percent of them are saying yeah, cost control is their biggest issue. Even ahead of other things like performance, like visibility, like actual, you know, control of the environment. You know, its cost was really the biggest concern. That's the big issue. >> Jim, something we've been tracking especially at shows like this, at the Cisco show is the challenges I used to understand kind of the stuff I had in my data center. I could get my arms around it. I might not love the management tools that I have. I might complain about some of the cost. But, it's all very well understand. It's bought most of the cap and freight. When you get to the public cloud, like totally understand what you are saying. multi-cloud. Now I've got all these different pieces and how will I have them defined. There's different skill sets between them. >> Right >> And when it comes to cost, right, the big unknown is oh wait, am I getting surprised by what happens, in that environment and across all them, I mean, I've talked to plenty of companies that will dedicate an engineering resource just to manage cloud or >> Right. >> I have many friends in the industry that are helping you know, cost optimization is something that is, you know, software consulting, there's huge business in that because we're still early in this getting to the steady stage. Help us connect the dots. Where does Kentik play into this then. So you talk to all these customers. >> Thank you. Our viewpoint is network and we're trying to give a viewpoint of what's happening in this environment by watching the network. And that's always super valueable because it helps you localize where things are, you know, what activity's happening and it helps you see, you know, which workloads are talking to which workloads. And that reveals sometimes things you don't expect. And this is where the cost control come in because you know, the cloud environment, you have to pay for certain network traffic. Especially between availability zones or when you're shipping it out of the cloud back to your other, you know, your home environment. And we have talked to a lot of customers who have said, hey, end of the month comes around, I get my bill and there's this big number there for data, you know, transfer. I don't know what drove that. And why am I being surprised time and time again by this. Well then there were viewpoints really awesome for seeing that. And if you can do it with a monitoring system that's watching for that all the time, the good news is that you can catch it, figure it out if it's real or not, needed or not, and fix it before 20 days later you get a big, fat bill. >> What does fixing it mean, does it mean like keeping it contained in the cloud, or on frame, or managing what's moving around? >> Could be combination of things, one of the things that we've seen in some of our earlier deployments are someone moved a workload into a different availability zone. Well, there was an application dependency they didn't recognize. And, you know, that workload was talking to, you know, home datacenter, or the another availability zone, and creating traffic across there and just running up the meter on the network costs. So if you can see that and it becomes very obvious to watch the traffic patterns. You can at least have someone go say, Hmm, okay, that's a surprise. They had a big rise to my zone to zone traffic or my, you know, cloud to home traffic. Let's just take a look to who's driving that and whether something that should be or shouldn't be. >> One of the interesting trends we've been watching on scene with cloud and hybrid cloud is kind of the consumption and deployments of cloud and hybrid's interesting because hybrid's with a cloud operation on premise. Which is been slowest to deploy. WikiBound's done a lot of research on private cloud and why that's happening. But it seems that clouds sprawl on the public side has been there. So yeah, I've got some Amazon, easy to stand up. I've got some Azure and now Google. So it's probably easier to get stuff in the clouds and then now they've got repurpose on premise to kind of have this seamless cloud native environment and Cisco's announcements, et cetera, et cetera. >> Yeah >> So as that's happened, what have you guys learned and scene in terms of the customer behavior. They wake up obviously, the bills are higher, so makes sense that the cloud is higher than hybrid and the cost containment is a concern. How did they get there? What are you seeing? And what's the psychology the customer just share some insight into the customer behavior. >> Well. >> Oh shoot, I got to unwind this, do I double down? What's going on? >> I think it really depends a lot on what the projects are, what the objectives are and what the skillset is. But one of the things that we found in this survey is that, network viewpoint that helps you understand what's really happening in the production environment is often being underutilized or underappreciated in the cloud environments, in the cloud, you know, deployments in cloud infrastructure. So one of the things we asked about was, how many of you folks at this event are actually taking advantage of, for instance, VPC Flow Logs, which can tell you exactly what's happening with an AWS, and between the availability zones. And it was surprising, they've been around, VPC Flow Logs have been around for years as a technology and as an additional service available. But, only about a third of the response were actually using them. So they weren't taking advantage of this important insight and viewpoint ceilometery set. About a third kind of knew about em, but wasn't using em yet. And then another third didn't even know what they were. >> Yeah. >> So I think there's still some maturity happening some maturation happening in terms of understanding what can I do about this? How can I get ahead of this? What's at my disposal? So part of the challenge of course then is that I have that piece covered, but as you said now, how do I cover my home, you know, home front? And where do I find, you know, some sort of tools that can be put these things together so I can see it all as one. >> That's where you guys fit in. >> That's where we fit in, yeah. >> So let me get some anecdotes from you. One it's clear that's a, there's a pain point. Take the aspirin. Understand what's going on, contain the bills. Is, give a scenario of what they're doing to contain the, you mentioned a few of them, but also to give an example of where they're using the data to be proactive, so there's the vitamin side of it. The vitamin, aspirin, whatever metaphor. So, you know, I've got contain my cost, I get that. How are people using the data to be more proactive in either architecting or deploying? >> So I think the, I don't know that anyone's being proactive yet. That is certainly the promise and the opportunity. Most organizations are simply want to be more aware of what happened. Or more affectively reactive and you start there. And once you start to realize, hey, I can do this then you can start turning toward being more proactive. So, for instance our solution was built to allow you to trigger corrective actions back to the environment. We don't take the actions, but we can trigger the systems that would change configurations or change policy and then form those systems of, you know, what's happening and what sort of parameters can we recognize that indicated and issue? So we believe that in especially watching the change in patterns of activity, noticing the anomalies. Anomaly detection often times used around security use cases. We do that. But also, it should be applied to operational use cases. When does a new workload pop up or a new, you know, volume of traffic show up that they didn't expect? And if it's something that I recognize happens at a regular basis and I know the answer, let's automate the corrective response. So that's kind of our theory of provide you the understanding of what's happening then with the tools to trigger and automatic corrective action. >> Alright, so Jim, we're talking a lot about multi-cloud this week with Cisco. Of course, you know, Cisco dominant in the networking space. Really feeling out where they live in multi-cloud, how networking plays across all of them. What's the relationship between Kentik and Cisco? How does that work? >> Thanks, so we're a member of CSPP Program. We are a partner. We joined because we manage a lot of Cisco gear. (laugh) So, a lot of our customers have Cisco. A lot of our use cases, historically, have been at the edge of the network, in particular the service providers. So, those that are delivering internet services or using the internet to reach their customers in some way. So, what's really different about us is we do a really deep and detailed approach of integrating a path, BGP path data, PGP rev data and correlating that with the traffic. As well with other enhancements, and augmentations of the data that give business and service context to the network traffic. Makes it more actionable. >> Yes, and what are you doing in the container space? You mentioned edge computing got some interesting use cases maybe explain a little bit where you play there? >> So when I say edge, I'm saying internet edge, not EDGE computing, although we're fascinated by what EDGE computing represents and the new challenges that's going to bring. Now when it comes to containers, actually we're very fascinated working in that area too, because, Jon, as you mentioned, moving and implementation of new cloud workloads is cloud native, using Kubernetes, using things like Gist T O, you know, that changes the environment once again. So, we've actually built a connector into Kubernetes so that we can use that to pull service information, you know, in terms of what workloads, what containers are out there. What are they doing? What's there purpose? So when we show you activity map of, you know, site to site communications we can say, here are the actual, you know, services that are being, participating in this activity. Its G was another place where we're really interested in to look at the service mesh, you know, that's being set up to run and operate communication between containers. Cause that's a new sort of virtual cloud network. It's a way that these containers are communicating. and again, the more you understand about the communication patterns, the better you can recognize problems, the better you can balance and plan, the better you really get a handle on what's really happening. >> Jim, I want to get your thoughts on since you brought up edge of the internet, multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, data moves around, certainly brings up the question of which routes the packets are moving around? There's always been debates but SL lays around, you know, direct connection versus go through the internet? Is China looking at it? So, there's a security kind of concern. >> Yep. >> What's the trend that you're seeing with respect to say either direct connects, cause I'm a company that I have multiple clouds. I have the connections in there. I'm concerned about latency, certainly cost, you know, whether it's cat videos or whatever, or application too. It still costs money. >> Yep. >> So latency's important so each cloud is its own kind of latency issues. What have you seen? >> Well, getting to the cloud and then within the cloud. >> Yeah, exactly. So it's complicated. So, this is a new dynamic, but it's similar concept. Is there standard latencies? Is it getting better? What's the trend look like? >> That's a great question, and I honestly don't have a good answer for you. But I recognize and agree that those are common concerns that we hear. And the best thing at least for what Kentik is doing is to provide the means to measure and understand that. So you can compare what's working. You can, you know, document a baseline, your different options and your different paths, and recognize when there's a real problem occurring. When you start to see latencies spike to any particular cloud service or location or zone so that you can try and get on top of it and figure it. >> That's a classic case of evolution. Get it instrumented. >> Yeah. >> Get the providers, get better what there services. That's the out of, really out of your hands. >> Yeah. >> That's not really. Okay, so, getting back to the survey kind of wrap things up. Interesting it said Amazon the biggest cloud show Azure pops up on the list as pretty high. >> It sure does. >> Makes sense Microsoft's got great performance. I mean Azure's kind of like, they move a lot of stuff into Azure preexisting Microsoft stuff plus they're investing. What's the bottom line summary as you kind of, you know, the aroma of the rapport. What's coming out of the rapport? What's the key insights that you can glean out of this? >> So I think it indicates normal pattern of adoption, and sort of we're growing into this marketplace. It's evolving as we go, you know. We saw big early-end option hopping in like lift and ship approaches to just move stuff into the cloud. Throw it in the cloud. It's going to be cheaper. It doesn't turn out to be cheaper. It can be. Then you've got another, you know, set of organizations that are born in the cloud, right? And they've started out from the beginning. So those two early approaches are merging into how do we really use this as a true, strategic approach to I.T.? What are the real world complexities we're going to deal with? And how are we going to deal with those? It's really no different from the way that technology has evolved within traditional data centers. And why, the way virtualization came in and changed the way we build and architect datacenters. It's awesome. It's great. It save you money in one area, but then it created huge blindspots, cause you couldn't tell what was going on in those virtualization layers, so we had to adapt our operational monitoring, and operational practices to accommodate the new technology. I think we're going through the same thing now with cloud. People recognize that they don't necessarily want to be holded to a single cloud provider. They want alternatives. They want, you know, cost competitiveness. They want redundancy. And so multi-cloud, I think, is becoming more and more real in part because people don't want to put all of their eggs in that one basket. >> And cost certainly looks good on paper at the beginning. >> Yeah. >> But then as you said, there's side effects. It's a system so there's consequences to the system. >> Yes, absolutely. >> When you start growing or whatever. And that's just where people have to work it better. Right? >> Yep. >> That's pretty much the operational. >> I mean, let's apply the same rigor that we used to apply to traditional data center environments. And let's start embracing the cloud, right? >> So, Jim, you've talked about the multi-cloud bid. Why don't you put a fine point on it. There's a reason why you jump from being an analyst into the vendor world. Some people on the outside will be like, well, you know, cloud's been going on for ten years, seems we understand where this is going. But, tell us why, you know, now is so important for this multi-cloud environment and the opportunity that you see again. >> Sure. >> In this ecosystem. >> Kentik in particular what we're starting to hear, very loud and clear amongst the what. Our traditional an initial base of customers was facilities based, service providers and digital enterprise that managed big routed networks and needed to understand better control their relationship with the internet and delivery across the internet. There coming to us and saying, hey look. We're splitting. We're adding cloud workloads. So, we're moving our content that we're serving up into the cloud, you know, more and more of our systems are moving into the cloud and we rely on you for this visibility in our production environment. We need you to add this. So, we saw a demand from our customers to, you know, accommodate this and in parallel we're just really inspired by this next generation of cloud native application development. It seems to be starting to reach that point where's it's becoming reality and it's becoming mature, and it's becoming a reliable approach to I.T. That now's the time to really get serious about bringing these other best practices for the traditional world, and applying them there. >> And the survey data has created proved multi-cloud and hybrid all here, costs can run out of control. You've got to work. You've got to operationalize cloud. And same rigor. I love that. Great insights, Jim. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Live CUBE coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco Live! Europe 2019. It's theCUBE. Day three, or three days of coverage. We'll be back with more, after this short break. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Barcelona Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi everyone welcome back to the theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live! Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier and my co-host Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante is out there as well co-hosting this week. Our next guest is John Apostolopoulos who's the VP and CTO for the Enterprise Networking Business, Unit Lab Director for the Innovation Labs. Here to talk with us about AI and some great innovations. John thanks for coming on theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you for inviting me, pleasure to be here. >> So, Cisco has some big announcements, the messages coming together certainly the bridge for the future, bridge for tomorrow, whatever the phrase is. You know, kind of looking at that new world connecting on premise, cloud, ACI anywhere, hyper-flex anywhere, lot of complexity, being mis-tracked the way with software, separate from the V-Comp from the hardware, lot of scale in the cloud and IoT and all around the edge. So software is a big part of this. >> Oh yes. >> So can't help but think, okay complexity, scale, you see Facebook using machine learning. Machine learning and AI operations now, a real conversation for Cisco. >> Yeah. >> Talk about what that is, how are you guys looking at AI, and machine learning in particular, it's been around for a while. What's your thoughts on Cisco's position and opportunity? >> Sure, yeah. Cisco's been investing or using AI for many, many years. What happens to Cisco, like most companies, we haven't really talked about the machine learning as a term because machine learning is a tool used to solve different problems. So you talk about, what are the customer problems we have? And then we saw, no matter how good our solution is, but we haven't really talked about the details about the how but, we've using at Cisco, like myself from past careers and so forth for many many years some machine learning. Security has been using it for multiple decades for example. >> And where's the use case for machine learnering, because it's one of things where there's different versions and flavors of machine learning. Machine learning we know powers AI and data feeds machine learning, so do you have all these dependencies and all these things going on, how do you...how should someone think about sorting through machine learning? >> Well machine learner itself that term is a very broad term, it's almost as big as computer science, right? So that's where a lot of the confusion comes in. But what happens is you can look up what types of problems we want to solve, and when you try to look at what types of problems we want to solve, some of them...for example some problems you can exploit the fact that the laws of physics that apply and if the laws of physics apply, you should use those laws. We can either figure out that if we drop this, this will fall at some speed by measuring it and using a machine learning or we have gravitational force and friction with the air and re-account for that and figure it out. So the many ways to solve these problems and we want to choose the best method for solving each one of them. >> And when the people think about Cisco, the first reaction isn't "Oh machine learning... innovator." What are you guys using machine learning for? Where has it been successful? What are you investing in? Where's the innovation? >> Sure sure, so there's a lot of problems here that come into play. If you look at...if you look at a customer problems, one example is all the digital disruption. We have on the order of a million devices, new devices coming on to the network every hour throughout the world. Now, what are those devices? How should you treat them? With machine learning we're able to identify what the devices are and then figure out what the network caches should be. For instance when IoT device you want to protect it, protect it from others. Another big topic is operations. As you know people spend, I think it was The Gardner identified that people spend about sixty-billion dollars per year on operations costs, why is it so much? Because most of the operations are manual, about 95% manual, which also means that these changes are slow and error-prone. What we do there is we basically use machine learning to do intelligent automation and we get a whole bunch of insights about what's happening and use that to drive intelligent automation. You may have heard about Assurance, which was announced at Cisco Live, one year ago at Barcelona and both in the campus with DNA Center we announced Cisco DNA Center Assurance and the data center went out, network and network analytic engine. And what both of these do is they look at what's happened to the network, they apply machine learning to identify patterns and from those patterns, identify, is there a problem, where's the problem? How can we...what's the root cause and then how can we solve that problem quickly? >> John, can you help us connect where this fits in a multi-cloud environment? Because what we've seen the past couple of years is when we talk about managing the network, a lot of what I might be in charge of managing, is really outside of my purview and therefore I could imagine something like ML is going to be critically important because I'm not going to be touching it but therefore I still need to have data about it and a lot of that needs to happen. >> Yeah, well one of the places ML helps with multi-cloud is the fact you need to figure out which...where to send your packets, and this comes with SD-WAN. So with SD-WAN we often have multiple paths available to us and let's say with the move to Office365, people are using the SaaS service and they want to have very good interactivity. One of the things we realized is that by carefully selecting which path we can use, at the branch and the campus too, we could get a 40% reduction in the latency. So that's a way we choose which colo or which region or which side of Office365 to send the packets to, to dramatically reduce latency. >> What's the role of data? Because when you think about it, you know, moving a packet from point A to point B, that's networking. Storage acts differently 'cause you store data data's got to come back out and be discovered. Now if you have this horizontal scalability for cloud, edge, core coming into the middle, get of the data 'cause machine learning needs the data, good data, not dirty data you need clean data. How do you see that evolving, how should customers then be thinking about preparing for either low-hanging use-cases. Just what's your thoughts and reaction to that? >> Yeah well the example you gave is a very interesting example. You described how you need to get data from one point to another, for instance, for my device to a data center with applications over the cloud. And you also mentioned how the many things between. What we care about, not necessarily the application data, we care about... You know we want to have the best network performance so your applications are working as well as possible. In that case we want to have an understanding of what's happening across a path so we want to pull to telemetry in all kinds of contexts to be able to understand, is there problem, where's the problem, what is it, and how to solve it. And that's what Assurance does. We pull this data from the access points the switches, from the routers, we pour, pull in all kinds of contextual information to get a rich understanding of the situation, and try to identify if there's a problem or not, and then how to solve it. >> Its the classic behavioral, contextual, paradigm of data but now you guys are looking at it from a network perspective and as the patterns changed the applications centric, programmability of the network, the traffic patterns are changing. Hence the announcements here but intent-based networking and hyper-flexed anywhere. This is now a new dynamic. Talk about the impact of that from an AI perspective. How are you guys getting out front on that? It's not just North, South, East, West, it's pretty much everywhere. The patterns are, could be application specific at any given point, on a certain segment of a network, I mean it's complex. >> Yeah, its complex. One of the really nice things about intent-based network and those, it fits in really nicely and that was by design, 'cause what happens with intent-based networking, as you know, a user expresses some intent if it's something they want to do. I want to securely onboard the SIoT device, and then it gets activated in the network, and then we use Assurance to see if it's doing the right thing. But what happens is that Assurance part, that's basically gathering visibility and insight in terms of what's happening. That's using machine learning to understand what's happening in the network across all these different parts that you mentioned. And then, what happens is we take those insights and then we make intelligent actions and that's part of the activation. So this...with intent based network in this feedback loop that we have directly ties with using the data for getting insights and then for activation, for intelligent actions. >> John, always want to get the update on the innovation lab, is there anything particular here at the show or, what's new that you can share? >> So we're looking at extending IBN to the cloud, to multi-cloud, to multiple devices so there's a lot of really fascinating work happening there. I believe you're going to be talking to one of my colleagues later, too, T.K. He's, I think, hopefully going to talk about some of the machine learning that's been done and that's already prioritized as you know in encrypted thread analytics. That's an example of where we use machine learning to identify if there's malware in encrypted traffic. Which is really a fascinating problem. >> That's a hard problem to solve. I'm looking forward to that conversation. >> So some members of Cisco, Dave McGrew, in particular, Cisco Fellow, started working on that problem four and a half years ago. Because of his work with other colleagues, he was able and they were able to come up with a solution. So it was a very complicated problem as you saw but through the use of machine learning and many years of investment, plus the fact that Cisco's access to Talos which has, they know the threats throughout the world. They're a list of data in terms of all kinds of threats that's massive. That's pretty powerful. >> The volume, that's where machine learning shines. I mean you see the amount of volume of data coming in, that's where it could do some heavy lifting. >> Exactly, that's one of Cisco's strengths. The fact that we have this massive view on all the threats throughout the world and we can bring it to bear. >> Network security foundation only just creates so much value for apps. Final question for you, for the folks watching, what's in you opinion the most important story here at Cicso Live Barcelona, that people should be paying attention to? >> I think how we are trying to extend across all these different domains and make it like one network for our customers. This is still a journey and it's going to take time but with intent based networking we can do that. We're going across campus, WAN, data center to multi-cloud. >> How hard is cross domain, just put it in perspective. Cross domains reversal and having visibility into these, from a latency, from a physics standpoint, how hard is it? >> It's quite hard, there's all kinds of technical challenges but there's even other sorts of challenges. This is WiFi, right? IEEE 802.11 defines the QoS standard for wireless and that's completely different than how the internet group ITEF defined it for wired. So even between wireless and wired, there's a lot of work that has to be done and Cisco's leading that effort. >> And having all that data. Great to have you on John, thanks for spending the time and demystifying machine learning and looking forward to this encrypted understanding with machine learning, that's a hard problem, looking forward to digging into that. Again, truly, the breakthroughs are happening with machine learning and adding values with application centric world. It's all about the data, it's theCUBE bringing you the data from Barcelona, I'm John with Stu Mini, stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, its theCUBE, covering Cisco Live! Europe, brought to you by Cisco, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live! Europe 2019, I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Dave Vellante as well as Stu Miniman has been co-hosting all week, three days of coverage, we're in day two. We're here with very special guest, we're in the DevNet Zone, and we're here with the leader of the DevNet team of Cisco, Susie Wee, Senior Vice President, CTO of Cisco DevNet, welcome, good to see you. >> Thank you, good to see you, and I'm glad that we have you here again in the DevNet Zone. >> You've been running around, it's been super exciting to watch the evolution, we chatted a couple of years ago, okay we're going to get some developer-centric APIs and a small community growing, now it's exploding. (Susie laughs) Feature of the show, the size gets bigger every year. >> It was interesting, yeah, we took a chance on it right? So we didn't know and you took this bet with me is just that the network is becoming programmable, the infrastructure is programmable, and not only is the technology becoming programmable, but we can take the community of networkers, IT infrastructure folks, app developers and get them to understand the programmability of the infrastructure, and it's really interesting that, you know, these classes are packed, they're very deep they're very technical, the community's getting along and, you know, networkers are developers. >> Yeah you know, you nailed it, because I think as a CTO, you understood the dev-ops movement, saw that in cloud. And I remember my first conversation with you like, you know, the network has a dev-ops angle too if you can make it programmable, and that's what it's done, and you're seeing Cisco's wide having this software extraction, ACI anywhere, hyperflux anywhere, connected to the cloud, now Edge. APIs are at the center, the DNA Center platform. >> Yes! >> API First, very successful project. >> Yes yes, it's-- >> This is the new DNA of Cisco is APIs, this is what it's all about. >> It is, it is and you know, like at first, you know, when we started this journey five years ago a few of our products had APIs, like a few of them were programmable. But you know, you don't take your network in overnight, it's programmable when you have this type of thing. But we've been building it in, and now practically every product is programmable, every product has APIs, so now you have a really rich fabric of yeah, security, data center, enterprises and campus and branch networks. Like, and it can now, put together really interesting things. >> Well congratulations, it happened and it's happening, so I got to ask the question, now that it's happening, happened and happening, continuing to happen, what's the impact to the customer base because now you're now seeing Cisco clearly defining the network and the security aspect of what the network can do, foundationally, and then enabling it to be programmable. >> Yeah. >> What's happening now for you guys, obviously apps could take advantage of it, but what else is the side effect of this investment? >> Yeah so, the interesting thing is, if we take a look at the industry at large, what happens is, you kind of have the traditional view of, IT, you know, so if you take a look at IT, you know, what do you need it for? I need it to get my compute, just give me my servers, give me my network, and let's just hope it works. And then it was also viewed as being old, like I can get all this stuff on the cloud, and I can just do my development there, why do I need all of that stuff right? But once you take it, and you know, the industry has come along, what happens is, you need to bring those systems together, you need to modernize your IT, you need to be able to just, you know, take in the cloud services, to take the applications come across, but the real reason you need it is because you want to impact the business, you know, so kind of what happens is like, every business in the world, every, is being disrupted right, and if you take a look, it has a digital disruptor going on. If you're in retail, then, you know, you're a brick and mortar, you know, traditionally a brick and mortar store kind of company, and then you have an online retailer that's kind of starting to eat your lunch, right, if you're in banking, you have the digital disruption like every, manufacturing is starting to get interesting and you know, what you're doing in energy. So all of this has kind of disruption angles, but really the key is that, IT holds the keys. So, IT can sit there and keep its old infrastructure and say, I have all this responsibility, I'm running this machinery, I have this customer database, or you can modernize, right? And so you can either hold your business back, or you can modernize, make it programmable and then suddenly allow cloud native, public, private cloud, deploy new applications and services and suddenly become an innovative platform for the company, then you can solve business problems and make that real, and we're actually seeing that's becoming real. (laughs) >> Well and you're seeing it right in front of us. So a big challenge there of what you just mentioned, is just having the skills to be able to do that but the appetite of this audience to absorb that knowledge is very very high, so for example, we've been here all week watching, essentially Cisco users, engineers, absorb this new content to learn how to basically program infrastructure. >> That's right, and it's not Cisco employees, it's the community, it's the world of like, Cisco-certified engineers like, people who are doing networking and IT for companies and partners around the world. >> And so, what do they have to go through to get from, you know, where they were, not modernized to modernized? >> Yeah, and actually, and that's a good way 'cause when we look back to five years ago, it was a question, like we knew the technology was going to become programmable and the question is, are these network guys, you know, are these IT guys everywhere are they going to stay in the old world are they really going to be the ones that can work in the new world, or are we going to hire a bunch of new software guys who just know it, are cloud native, they get it all, to do it all. Well, it doesn't work that way because to work in oil and gas, you need some expertise in that and those guys know about it, to work in, you know, retail and banking, and all of these, there's some industry knowledge that you need to have. But then you need to pick up that software skill and five years ago, we didn't know if they would make that transition, but we created DevNet to give them the tools within their language and kind of, you know if they do and what we found is that, they're making the jump. And you see it here with everyone behind us, in front of us, like they are learning. >> Your community said we're all in. Well I'm interested in, we've seen other large organizations infrastructure companies try to attract developers like this, I'm wondering is it because of the network, is it because of Cisco? Are there some other ingredients that you could buy, is it the certified engineers who have this appetite? Why is it that Cisco has been so successful, and I can name a number of other companies that have tried and failed, some of them even owned clouds, and have really not been able to get traction with developers, why Cisco? >> Well I mean, I think we've been fortunate in many ways, as we've been building it out but I think part of it, you know like the way any company would have to go about you know, kind of taking on programmability, dev-ops, you know, these types of models, is tough, and it's, there's not one formula for how you do it, but in our case, it was that Cisco had a very loyal community. Or we have, and we appreciate that very loyal community 'cause they are out there, workin' the gear, building the networks like, running train stations, transportation systems you know, running all around the world, and so, and they've had to invest a lot into that knowledge. Now we then, gave them the tools to learn, we said, here's coding 101, here's your APIs, here's how to learn about it, and your first API call will be get network devices. Here's how you automate your infrastructure, here's how you do your things, and because we put it in, they're grabbing on and they're doing it and you know, so, it was kind of having that base community and being respectful of it and yet, bringing them along, pushing them. Like we don't say keep doing things the old way yes, learn software, and we're not going to water down how you have to learn software. Like you're going to get in there, you're going to use Rest APIs, you're going to use Postman, you're going to use Git, and we have that kind of like first track to just get 'em using those tools. And we also don't take an elitist culture like we're very welcoming of it, and respectful of what they've done and like, just teach 'em and let 'em go. And the thing is like, once you do it, like once you spend your time and you go oh, okay, so you get the code from GitHub, I got it, now I see all this other stuff. Now I made my Rest API call and I've used Postman. Oh, I get it, it's a tool. Just, once you've done just that, you are a different person. >> And then it's business impact. >> Then it's business, yeah no and like then you're also able to experiment, like you suddenly see a bigger world. 'Cause you've been responsible for this one thing, but now you see the bigger world and you think differently, and then it's business impact, because then you're like okay, how do I modernize my infrastructure? How can I just automate this task that I do every day? I'm like, I don't want to do that anymore, I want to automate it, let me do this. And once you get that mindset, then you're doing more, and then you're saying wait, now can I install applications on this, boy, my network and my infrastructure can gives lots of business insights. So I can start to get information about what applications are being called, what are being used, you know, when you have retail operations you can say, oh, what's happening in this store versus that store? When you have a transportation system, where are we most busy? When you're doing banking, where is like, are you having mobile transactions or in-store transactions? There's all this stuff you learn and then suddenly, you can, you know, really create the applications that-- >> So they get the bug, they get inspired they stand up some quick sandbox with some value and go wow-- >> Or they use our DevNet Sandbox so that they can start stuff and get experi-- >> It's a cloud kind of mindset of standing something up and saying look at it, wow, I can do this, I can be more contributing to the organization. Talk about the modernization, I want to get kind of the next step for you 'cause the next level for you is what? Because if this continues, you're going to start to see enterprises saying oh, I can play in the cloud, I can use microservices. >> Yes. >> I can tap into that agility and scale of the cloud, and leverage my resources and my investment I have now to compete, you just mentioned that. How is that going to work, take us through that. >> Yeah and there's more, in addition to that, is also, I can also leverage the ecosystem, right? 'Cause you're used to doing everything yourself, but you're not going to win by doing everything yourself, even if you made everything modern, right? You still need to use the ecosystem as well. But you know, but then at that stage what you can do and actually we're seeing this as, like our developers are not only the infrastructure folks, but now, all of the sudden our ISVs, app developers, who are out there writing apps, are able to actually put stuff into the infrastructure, so we actually had some IoT announcements this week, where we have these industrial routers that are coming out, and you can take an industrial router and put it into a police car and because a police car has a dashboard camera, it has a WiFi system, it has on-board computer, tablets, like all of this stuff, the officer has stuff, that's a mobile office. And it has a gateway in it. Well now, the gateway that we put in there does app hosting, it can host containerized applications. So then if you take a look at it, all the police cars that are moving around are basically hosting containerized apps, you have this kind of system, and Cisco makes that. >> In a moveable edge. >> And then we have the gateway manager that does it, and if you take a look at what does the gateway manager do it has to manage all of those devices, you know, and then it can also deploy applications. So we have an ability to now manage, we also have an ability to deploy containers, pull back containers, and then this also works in manufacturing, it works in utility, so you have a substation, you have these industrial routers out there that can host apps, you know, then all of a sudden edge computing becomes real. But what this brings together is that now, you can actually get ISVs who can actually now say, hey I'm an app developer, I wanted to write an app, I have one that could be used in manufacturing. I could never do it before, but oh, there's this platform, now I can do it, and I don't have to start installing routers, like a Cisco partner will do it for a customer, and I can just drop my app in and it's, we're actually seeing that now-- >> So basically what's happening, the nirvana is first of all, intelligent edge is actually possible. >> Yes. >> With having the power at the edge with APIs, but for the ISVs, they might have the domain expertise at saying, hey I'm an expert on police, fire, public safety, vertical. >> Yes. >> But, I could build the best app, but I don't need to do all this other stuff. >> Yes. >> So I can focus all my attention on this. >> Yes. >> And their bottleneck was having that kind of compute and or Edge device. >> Yes. >> Is that what you're kind of getting at? >> Yeah, and there's, exactly it was because you know, I mean an app developer is awesome at writing apps. They don't want to get into the business of deploying networks and like even managing and operating how that is, but there's a whole like kind of Cisco ecosystem that does that. Like we have a lot of people who will love to operationalize that system, deploy that, you know, kind of maintain it. Then there's IT and OT operators who are running that stuff, but that app developer can write their app drop it into there, and then all of that can be taken care of. And we actually have two ISVs here with us, one in manufacturing, one in utilities, who are, you know, DevNet ISV partners, they've written applications and they actually have real stories about this, and kind of what they had to say is, like in the manufacturing example, is okay, so they write, they have this innovation, I wrote this cool app for manufacturing, right? So there's something that it does, it's building it, you know, they've gotten expertise in that, and then, as they've been, they're doing something innovative, they actually need the end customer, who does, the manufacturer, to use it, and adopt a new technology. Well, hey, you know, I'm running my stuff, why should I use that, how would I? So they actually work with a systems integrator, like a channel partner that actually will customize the solution. But even that person may not have thought about edge computing, what can you do, what's this crazy idea you have, but now they've actually gotten trained up, they're getting trained up on our IoT technologies, they're getting trained up on how to operationalize it, and this guy just writes his app, he actually points them to the DevNet Sandbox to learn about it, so he's like, no let me show you how this Edge processing thing works, go use the DevNet Sandbox, you can spin up your instance, you can see it working, oh look there's these APIs, let me show you. And it turns out they're using the Sandbox to actually train the partners and the end customer about what this model is like. And then, these guys are adopting it, and they're getting paying customers through this. >> Did you start hunting for ISVs, did they find you, how did that all transpire? >> It kind of happens in all different ways. (laughter) >> So yes. >> Yeah yeah, it happens in all different ways, and basically, in some cases like we actually sometimes have innovation centers and then you have you know, kind of as you know, the start-up that's trying to figure out how to get their stuff seen, they show up, we look for it. In our case in Italy, with the manufacturing company, then what happened was, the government was actually investing and the government was actually giving tax subsidies for manufacturing plants to modernize. And so, what they were doing was actually giving an incentive and then looking for these types of partners, so we actually teamed up with our country teams to find some of these and they have a great product. And then we started, you know, working with them. They actually already had an appreciation for Cisco because they, you know, in their country, they did computer science in college, they might've done some networking with the Cisco Networking Academy, so they knew about it, but finally, it came that they could actually bring this ecosystem together. >> Susie, congratulations on all your success, been great to be part of it in our way, but you and your team have done an amazing job, great feedback on Twitter on the swag got the-- (laughter) Swag bag's gettin' a lot of attention, which is always a key important thing. But in general, super important initiative, share some insight into how this has changed Cisco's executive view of the world because, you know, the cloud had horizontal scalability, but Cisco had it too. And now the new positioning, the new branding that Karen Walker and her team are putting out, the bridge to tomorrow, the future, is about almost a horizontally scalable Cisco. It's everywhere now so-- >> Yeah the bridge to possible, yeah. >> Bridge to possible, yes. >> Yeah well I mean, really what happens is, you know, there was a time when you're like, I'm going to buy my security, I'm going to buy my networking, I'm going to buy my data center, but really more and more people just want an infrastructure that works, right? An infrastructure that's capable that can allow you to innovate, and really what happens, when you think about how do you put all of these systems together, 'cause they're still individual, and they need to be individual in best in class products, well the best way to put 'em together is with APIs. (laughs) So, it's not that you need to architect them all into one big product, it's actually better to have best in class, clearly define the APIs, and then allow, as kind of modularity and to build it out. So, really we've had tremendous support from Chuck Robbins, our CEO, and he's understood this vision and he's been helping, kind of, you know, like DevNet is a start-up itself, like he's been helping us navigate the waters to really make it happen and as we moved and as he's evolved the organization, we've actually started to get more and more support from our executives and we're working across the team, so everything that we do is together with all the teams. And now what we're doing is we're co-launching products. Every time we launch a new product, we launch a new product with the product offer and the developer offer. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, here we've launched the new IoT products. >> With APIs. >> And, with APIs, and IOX and App-posting capabilities and we launched them together with a new DevNet IoT developer center. At developer.cisco.com/iot, and this is actually, if you take a look at the last say half year or year, our products have been launching, you'll see, oh here's the new DNA Center, and here's the new DevNet developer center. You know, then we can say, here's the new kind of ACI, and here's the new ACI developer center. Here's the new Meraki feature, here's the new ACI-- >> And it's no secret that DNA Center has over 600 people engineers in there. >> Yeah (laughs) >> That public information might not be-- >> You know, but we've actually gotten in the mode in the understanding of you know, every product should have a developer offer because it's about the ecosystem, and we're getting tremendous support now. >> Yeah a lot of people ask me about Amazon Web Services 'cause we're so close, we cover them deeply. They always ask me, hey John, why is that, why is Amazon so successful I go, well they got a great management team, they've got a great business model, but it was built on APIs first. It was a web service framework. You guys have been very smart by betting on the API because that's where the growth is, so it's not Amazon being the cloud, it's the fact that they built building blocks with APIs, that grew. >> Yes. >> And so I think what you've got here, that's lightening in the bottle is, having an API strategy creates more connections, connections create more fabric, and then there's more data, it's just, it's a great growth vehicle. >> Absolutely. >> So, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> So is that your market place, do you have a market place so it's just, I guess SDKs and APIs and now that you have ISVs comin' in, is that sort of in the plan? >> We do, no we do actually so, so yeah so basically, when you're in this world, then you have your device, you know, it's your phone, and then you have apps that you download and you get it from an app store. But when we're talking about, you know, the types of solutions we're talking about, there is infrastructure, there is infrastructure for you know, again, utilities companies, for police stations, for retail stores, and then, you have ISV applications that can help in each of those domains. There's oftentimes a systems integrator that's putting something together for a customer. And so now kind of the app store for this type of thing actually involves, you know, our infrastructure products together with kind of, and infrastructure, and third-party ones, you know, ISV software that can be customized and have innovation in different ways together with that system integrator and we're training them all, people across that, but we actually have something called DevNet Exchange. And what we've done is there's actually two parts, there's Code Exchange, which is basically, pointers out to you know, source code that's out in GitHub, so we're just going out to code repos that are actually helping people get started with different products. But in addition, we have Ecosystem Exchange, which actually lists the ISV solutions that can be used as well as the system's integrators who can actually deliver solutions in these different domains, so you know, DevNet Ecosystem Exchange is the place where we actually do list the ISVs with the SIs you know, with the different platforms so, that's the app store for a programmable infrastructure. >> Susie, congratulations again, thank you so much for including us in your DevNet Zone with theCUBE here for three days. >> Thank you for coming to us and for really helping us tell the story. >> It' a great story to tell and it's kickin' butt and takin' names-- (laughter) Susie Wee, Senior Vice President and CTO of DevNet, makin' it happen just the beginning, scratching the surface of the explosion of API-based economies, around the network, the network value, and certainly cloud and IoT. Of course, we're bringing you the edge of the network here with theCUBE, in Barcelona, we'll be back with more live coverage day two, after this short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's theCUBE covering Cisco Live Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, with Stu Miniman and Dave Alonte also here doing interviews. Our next guests, two guests from the DNA center platform, Cisco, the agent platform team, Prakash Rajamani, director of product management, Cisco and Ronnie Ray, vice president of product management, Cisco, the DNA center platform growing 70% of the use cases, software distractions, API automation. Congratulations. Great success. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks John. >> Big Fan of the DNA center. You guys have made great progress. Take a step through us. The positioning, how things are rolling, what's some of the feedback? Where's the DNA center platform at right now for Cisco? >> Yup. >> So DNA center was launched about 80 months back and it's probably one of the products in Cisco that has completely started to transform how we do the selling motions. So this is one of the key drivers of Cisco moving into light sensing mode switch, more software like. Now as part of how we do management Typically and traditionally it has been very much a manual driven process there's some reporting but it is a lot of expert light capabilities that you need to have to do management of the infrastructure then it's kind of moving that access to where you can now do machine-lift management. Of course it doesn't solve all the use cases absolutely as you mentioned, more than 70% but there's a whole host of new capabilities that you have to put on top and that's where developers come in because this is a platform that's built for developers to be able to extend it's capabilities to really look at solving problems for our customers. >> I think you know, after listening to all the announcements in temp based networking, ACI anywhere, hyperflex anywhere, data at the center of the value, data centered as you guys say, it's clever but I think it highlights what you guys are doing because you're talking about programmability of the network as two worlds collide actually three worlds collide, Cloud, On Premises and Edge into one network, you have a network, the network is key it's getting bigger, to cross domains is a big theme here, these are hard problems that are being solved by Cisco more complex cause there's more moving parts but it still has to operate as one network. This is essentially highlights the success of the DNA platform, am I kind of getting it right or is that kind of in line with how you guys see it? >> Sure, I mean I think Cisco DNA centered I mean if you look at the evolution we started in the network domain. You're absolutely right we have kind of extended to the brand change, there's nine integrations that are happening with the data center integrations, happening with the cloud, so yeah absolutely looking at the fabric that we launched about 18 months back now extending and stretching to all of those domains and wherever users connect and wherever users go to and that's of Cisco data center but think about that as we kind of do that, yes there is a change that also required not just in the product but also in the IT process because earlier companies had silos of things and now those silos will be forced to work together and CI was one that our network folks that support us because really they want to see cross domain bring power to the organizations but we are the enabler of making that happen. >> No brainer. >> Prakash, I'd love for you to take us inside ya know, we love looking at the product management piece here because you've had a lot of constituencies. You've got the internal product teams that all I'm sure want to get in and mature and expand their used cases. You've got all your partners that are building the platform. You've got the customers asking for feedback You've got a - ya know, a lot of options to choose from which is a good thing but you've obviously got limited resources. So take us inside that, what you've learned over the last year and how you helped prioritize and move this product forward so fast over the last 18 months. >> So one of the main things we did when we started with Data Center is to start thinking and having the vision to get a data center platform. With that in mind, every feature, every capability that we built in the product was built API first before we built a UI around it. Right? That has helped us immensely in the last couple releases we've started delivering features as APIs even before it had a face to it, and I think that has helped us prioritize and make sure that we are able to meet the demands going demands of customer or partner we had a customer who was like "I need this feature now" and we were hands strapped, we had a big back log, we couldn't get things done but the fact that we were able to get the APIs we were able to work with the customer and say "Hey here you can wire these three APIs and you can get what you're looking for" and he was like "Wow, that's so simple and I'm on my own" he was happy, we are happy we are able to manage our back log better. So I think the main strategy for us that's working is going API first on a pragmatic basis. This is us moving completely software driven as Ronnie was highlighting earlier in that relevant process that is helping us get there and that's part of it >> Well, it's customers a lot I mean they get to roll their own if you will without having be customized, it's still standardized with the APIs >> That's right, right? I mean the benefit is as you start getting into the 30% used case where "Hey, what's coming out of the box is not meeting exactly what I do today" we provide very grander APIs to very business driven, simplified interned APIs. The grander APIs allows the customer who wants to say I want A, B and then D and E to move forward compared to intern based API who is using the pride in the simplicity in driving that formula. >> Yeah, Ronnie I'm wondering if we can up level for a second here cause feedback I've gotten over the last year. Ya know, a year ago we heard Cisco is moving heavily towards software. When I talked to a lot of the partners both technology partners and channel partners they said this had a ripple effect inside Cisco it's not so much okay here's the skews and here's the new boards and here's the products but I need to sell a solution and therefore that's platforms that I have to have and therefore everything needs to work together and I have to think API first and like it does significant changes to how Cisco is, the joke I used to have is Cisco is like 100 companies and some people were like "Well, maybe it's 100, maybe it's 200." But today it's now something like platform is a unifying place, is that what is your solution set part of that drive and is that something you're seeing more broadly inside Cisco? >> Certainly, I think you're absolutely right that is does have a unifying effect if I might put it that way. >> Yeah Right? Because there's so many different capabilities that existed in different tools that are coalescing on Cisco data central and which is becoming part of the platform which is now customizable by our entire development community but think how fast that happens in a now within the sales force, within Cisco as a company there is no more cross domain knowledge that'll be required because now it operates different parts it can tune different things, that also means that is supposed to change the business model because going into software and kind of bringing it together and is increasing Cisco is obviously ya know foyering into softer subscriptions, this is a key product that's kind of supporting that, so in many ways it's not just the technology, it's not just APIs but also as a business process that's changing Cisco just like it'll change customers. >> One of the things we're seeing is a lot of design thinking principles this year. Love the new positioning bridged to the future bridged to tomorrow, wherever it goes but it's clean. Connecting the worlds are connecting together through the network get that. What has been some of the challenges and opportunities you guys are seeing around simplicity? Love this API, exposing API allows for customization, I love the broader intent based templates are great but it's hard to make things simple. Can you just elaborate on how you guys are thinking about the product short, medium, long term in terms of continuing to work the back log, I'm sure the feature list is growing like crazy but you got a challenge to make it simpler. >> Absolutely >> How hard is it? What does it entail? Share some insight there. >> So lets take the question in two parts and Prakash can talk to the product simplicity because that is a certainly something that we've got to manage very very carefully but think about also when simple doesn't just mean usable product, it also means a product that can fit into the ecosystem and make the process simpler. So there's a lot of deeper understanding that we are developing through the learning as we work with customers and how do we embed how do we make customers life easier how do we make the process easier and then after goal is how do we make their operational expenses lower? Because we want them to go faster, we want them to go faster at a lower cost and so there's a certainly both learning and investment that's happening there and the product side Prakash. >> On the product side it's about how we used to build to how we are building right now the way we used to do was a new feature comes in it goes to the device layer first the device team builds it puts CLI around it ships it off, sends it to the management team and the management team says "Oh, I got to support this feature" They go, they wrap a UI around it to support the feature, ships. Now we have flipped it turn completely around we start with like what is a customer's work field? What do they need to do and how can we do it in the minimal steps? Once we identify that we push that down to saying "Here is what the user interface looks like here are the three steps that they need to do. That trickles down to saying what we need as an APA on the device layer to develop the feature so we've gone down from going a bottom up way to build a product to a top down, customer driven, used case driven way to build a product. That means we are addressing the customer head on from a simplicity perspective and that's basically what has made us successful in moving the ball forward on this one. >> What has been some of the customer feedback? Can you share some anecdotes around some of the early customers you started rolling this out and what are the ones receiving on the receiving end today saying? >> So when you see from a simplicity feedback perspective I have a large retail store rolling out like maybe 60 APs in a single store over night and they've gone from having that be done over three nights to one person spending 20 minutes putting all the APs up going to the tool and the tool recognizing everything that's come up and deployed. So it's a night and day transformation on how it used to be to how it is right now. So the simplicity >> Sounds like the old way was >> Sounds like you saved a night in a day >> Manually configure, go put a wireless ping to it >> Yep, the old way was yeah you go you plugged the AP, you come back you look at the tool, the AP is there >> Check the channel, stuff is there. >> Map it to the right controller, do all the mappings Now you don't have to do anything just plug the APs and upload preloaded to say these APs are going to the store. The tool takes care of the rest of the stuff that's how simple it is become >> It's almost like old way new way What why are we doing that? And it's good when they have consistent environments with policies there's definitely more expansion. I get that, what about other used cases? Wireless is one hot one, I could see that branch off it's deployments what are some of the popular used cases that you're seeing in the customer base I know you got a broad base but what are the ones what are the patterns that are emerging out of this? >> So let me start another then have Ronnie chime in on the used cases he's seen. Some of the ones that are probably very transformational is that on the policy based used case, we have companies turning around and creating small subdivisions within their organizations. We have a large government in Yasha who is deploying that, they have 20 divisions. Earlier to do that it's extremely complex. They have to go in, they have to understand what division, who is using on which device, which ports mapped to them, just planning that it says it's so huge. For the new policy different approach that we have going, they don't have to know about anything they just need to know Prakash works for division A, Ronnie works for division B assign me to respective divisions, as I come in my policy gets right over to the network. I deploy the network as is, as I speak that is basically the level of simplicity that has changed and that all ties back to doing your network from a policy perspective not a networking from a feature perspective. >> Got it, Ronnie any comments on used case on your end? >> Yeah absolutely so think about we've talked about assurance we launched segmentation that's doing very very well of course even with when all of the public acknowledgement that goes with it but an interesting used case that's come up which is in fact in the keynote this week at Cisco live is about IUT extensions. So Data seto owa is extending to the factory floor, the production equipment and transportation and these are tremendous neo opportunities that are both for companies to kind of look at IT and OT and how this comes together, again going back to the unification simplification theme that do many more things at the same time they try to make it in a rationally much more operable. >> Okay so lot of progress in 18 months give us the road map going forward. We're at the beginning of 2019 what you'll be looking for, can a high level show show us what we should expect to see down the road >> K so from a road map perspective it's in a think about that we've been very focused on getting the customer value. Now the lens is kind of shifting to how do we deal with large enterprise capabilities? So both the hardening of the system itself, how do we look at, for example multiple clusters opening up in diverse locations will give us geo diversity and support there from that perspective and high availability. So these are enterprise class features every large customer requires it and as they move from smaller deployments to full scale deployments that is something that the labs look to need >> Yeah, Prakash when I heard you talking about things I need to think a little bit differently. It's like okay I'm used to going into the deploy and it's going to take me three days wait how do I learn about the fact that I can do it now in a couple of hours? What kind of training or retraining or education is that part of what you're doing in your team or where does that happen? >> It's part of the education, part of the videos we double up and publish to customers so that they don't think about this as I'm going to approach my same 20 steps and think that I'm going do that through data center except that I'm going to do that through a user interface. The first thing that we tell them is like "You're going to do 20" You're going to do two. Right? So the immediate feedback is oh does it address everything I want to do? And so that's the 70% used case more would rather say yes it addresses only thing is we have simplified it, we have compressed it so you don't have to go and go through all these 20 steps but instead get it done in two, so the watts have helped some of the trainings that you have done has helped even talking to from a sales process the customer to know "Hey this is what I'm embracing" so when they come in they don't come in with I'm going to run my network the same way but no no I'm going to run it differently has helped us immensely to make the transition >> Well guys, congratulations on a great successful product, big fan I love that thing, I think it's going to be the future there's a lot more head room there that's cause we're looking at automations the devnet zone we're in is showing massive growth. The appetite for automation the appetite for configuration and scale and managing the complexity is a sweet spot I think that you guys had a nice formally hear looking forward to it. Final question for these guys Ronnie and Prakash are going to both answer it. Say something about DNA center platform that people should pay attention to that they might not hear in the mainstream chatter that's important that they should maybe want to kick the tires or understand it further, an area that they should know about that they might not hear about or they should know about what's the most important feature. Share some, share some insight. >> So again just looking at a little bit into the future of Cisco data center platform, right now we're kind of talking of APIs, there's capability that's coming in the future that will also deal with work flows and the work flows will be built on something which is machine built so there will be a lot of analytics in fact in a data center not only does automation but also extends data analytics so a lot of cool stuff that'll come there and again we'll talk about it more as we get to the next Cisco live. >> Prakash anything? >> I'm going to go a little more ground level people tend to talk about simplicity, talk about how we can do things way differently with data center and people tend to forget that we have not forgotten the network engineer who has been managing the network. We have APIs for you to do the same things you've done all along, create articles create re-lance, do some of the basic networking stuff so that it's not about this just as simple we also have the more detailed breakdown of the API so that you can still continue to know the nuts and the bolts and other things as well as much as the simple stuff so it's the >> It's an empowering all personas in the network from network engineer low level getting down and dirty to large scale automations, whatever the use case is you got the empowerment. >> Yep that's basically what I would like to >> That's awesome, well congratulations Again big fan, DNA center takeover here in the Devnet zone I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman Cube coverage day two of three days stay with us for more after this short break. (electronic music plays)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We're live here in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live! Europe 2019 Cube coverage. Three days, we're in day two of three days of coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Stu Miniman as well as Dave Vellante's been on interview. Our next guest, Saurav Prasad, Principal Engineer and Technical Marketing at Cisco as part of the Cisco DNA Center Platform. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> So you guys are having a DNA take, and we're in the DevNet zone all week. This has been a real revitalization within Cisco DevNet, Cloud Native, Cisco coming together. The DNA center has been a part of this from day one. >> Yes. >> What is the DNA center these days, what's happening? >> Okay, so, let me take you a bit back in time, right. So, back in October 2017 is when we first launched the Cisco DNA center. Since then we have added a lot more application, work flows in the DNA center. And last year in May or June of last year, 2018, is when we launched the DNA Center Platform. And this protocol, FCS, some time during October of 2018. So, we now have the DNA Center Platform, which essentially is an open platform which lets our developers, our partners, our ISVs build applications on top of DNA Center which will let them talk to the network. And the way they do it is using our APIs, our SDKs, and then we have a lot of other modules, which help them interact with the network via the DNA Center. Now the benefit of this is not really with respect to APIs or SDKs, it's more about we give them a very easy way to talk to the network. Instead of talking to 10,000 network devices, they talk to one DNA Center. So, that's the, you know, idea behind the DNA Center Platform. >> Well why not expand a little bit when we've been talking about platforms in general for many years now, and it's one thing to say you're a platform, but the proof is, who's actually building on it. What can they do on it? So, you've got the platform, FCS, first customer ship, it's available, it's launching. What can you tell us about, you know, real customers, what they're doing, give us a little bit of the spectrum as to what we see out there. >> That's right. So before we FCS'ed our platform in October, we actually relied on early field trials for almost three to four months. And in then in that time we were actually working with our 15 top partners. And this was across the world, right. So they were actually using the platform to build some integrations from their side which was beneficial for them, right, so these are partners like Dimension Data, Accenture, WWT, and I'm just naming a few of them. These are all listed on our DNA center portal, on DevNet. But, then, we were working them and we were actually looking for feedback on whether it was useful and we found that it was really, really useful for them to build some good applications, good work flows, good integrations, and that helps them drive their own business with their customers. >> So, what's the mission of the DNA center? What is the purpose? Why do you guys exist? >> So, the DNA center is built to provide you intent based networking. So instead of you having to go to each and every network device and provision things on the network devices, you now go to the DNA center and say "Here is my intent!" An example for an intent would be, "I want to prioritize Cisco job or traffic". It should be high priority. Now that means there is a lot of network devices that I need to provision quality of service. I need to make sure I have the right cue instructors in place. And guess what, we have so many devices, each one of them might have some different CLIs, different architectures, we now give them one single place where you provide the intent and not worry about the device level details. And I am just giving you one example. There could be a lot more where, for example I'm getting the telemetry back from a network. Each and every device is saying I am having some issues but they might all be the same issue here. What DNA center does is takes all of those issue provides you an insight into what really is happening in the network, so that's our idea of DNA Center. >> Saurav, come on, who doesn't want to use this? Everyone who's gone out and provisioned a device knows how much a hassle it is. I mean think about the manual labor involved. Just going out and doing all of this stuff so it's an action center, basically. You take action, one spot, window into the network policy, whatever it takes. It's driven by, and now applications can come in as well. Am I getting that right. >> That's right. So the greatest work says, again this is what we do with platform is, different partners, different customers, might have some different workflows. So within the DNA center we have decided, here is how the workflow should look like. So if I want to do an upgrade of a network device, here are the steps I might follow. But when you use the API's, you can almost define your own workflows. So this allows you the flexibility of building your own workflows. That's one example. Other is, say for example, I need some feedback from a different system, not the network maybe some other IT system. I need to get some information from them and based on that, I need to configure something on the network. You cannot do that automatically. There has to be an application in between which talks to both of these systems, one of them being the Cisco DNA Center. Now this allows you to do that. If I have the API's, if I have the event framework, I can do all of that. That's the benefit of using these. >> What's the alternative if someone doesn't use the DNA Center 'cause this is a no brainer. You've got, I get the device piece, that's just a nice window. Now the platform allows applications to integrate and be programmable with the network. Why wouldn't someone use this, it's a no brainer. >> If you don't use this, what you do is you go to each of your thousand network devices talk to each one of them and take care of all of the device level details and do it. It's doable, people have been doing it for years now but now we are making it slightly more easier to make it faster. >> Well, it comes to, we have been talking for years the need for scale and if you don't have good automation if you don't have tools to be able to help you there, you're not going to be able to reach the scale that you need for your business, explain why this is important. >> For example, what we are seeing is and we have been talking about digital networks for some time now. What really is a digital network, that's a key point to understand here. What we are seeing is there was a time 10 years back when you had to roll out a new service network admins, network architects had six months to provision that. Nowadays they don't have that. >> Six hours >> They probably have six hours, that's right. In order for you to do all of that so fast, you really cannot go into each device and talk about it. You have to abstract some of that and that's what the DNA Center provides and using our API's we are now adding a new level on top of it, which really makes it much more easier for you to scale. Again, not just scale, also integrate with other IDSM systems, other IBM systems, other reporting systems. So this is all happening automatically, instead of you having to manually touch each of these systems. >> Talk about the plug and play process. How does that fit in with DNA Center, compatible, not compatible? >> So plug and play is an application or workflow within DNA Cneter. When I look at plug and play, every network device in Cisco has a plug and play agent running. I'm going to get into a bit of a technical detail here, but they have a plug and play agent running and so when this device comes up, say for day zero onboarding, you open up the box, take out the device power it up, the agent fires up. What it looks for is the plug and play server. The Cisco DNA center is the Plug and Play server. So now I am allowing you to onboard new devices. You could roll out a new site with 25 network devices, 100 network devices in a matter of minutes. >> So all of the configuration gets pushed down from the DNA Center? >> Exactly! So you build your own profile in DNA Center and attach the templates or the configurations. You say here is a serial number and when this device comes in, I push in all the configuration, I provision a new software image on it, so your device or your site is up and running. >> Great for campus, great for remote sites. >> Exactly, so you really don't have to send a network admin on every remote site to do that. >> Will it take policy so if I set policy up in the DNA Center, will it automatically take that down through? >> Yes, yes, yeah. Once a device is onboarded, it gets added to the Cisco DNA Center and once I do that, now I can throw in policies any kind of provisions. >> I don't mean to get in the weeds, sorry Stu, go ahead. >> What's great about a platform, you've talked about some of the partners. My understanding, not just some of the integrated partners like WWT that you mentioned but even some of the technology partners like IBM have services that plug into this environment. We've seen in platforms, where you can, one of the other dimensions is the customers and what are they asking for and how are there feedback there. Is there anything in the DNA Center platform that if one customer is asking for something that more customers are going to get value of that. I think back to the day of Salesforce. When Salesforce gets something, we add a new feature and that's something that can roll out, we can learn from all the customers, you get that fly wheel of development in a platform. >> What we are doing here is we are actually working very closely with Cisco DevNet on that. They have a partner ecosystem exchange. What's happening is a lot of this channeled partners technology partners, ISV's, when they build something they go into the ecosystem exchange and they can post it there. So its not just useful for them, there are other partners, other customers that can use it. They have a data repository of all the core, sample core and again, not everybody shares it to the extent what we would like because there's a lot of intellectual property which they have built and they might want to monetize on it but that is the whole idea behind the ecosystem exchange where I am allowing partners to share what they have built and this could be used by others. >> Saurav, talk about the success, what's the uptake? It must be well received, obviously we see a lot of action her in the DevNet zone. Give us some color commentary on what the momentum has been, who's using it, how? >> From our side, I'm from the business unit which is actually building this product. The way we judge whether this product is getting traction is what is the amount of feature requests I am getting? So, we are getting a ton of feature requests with respect to new API's that we want to expose. With respect to new documentation that we have to build. I mean, what we don't want is we release a product and we got no feedback. >> So what's the fee for requests? Backlog big or what's going on? >> Oh yeah, so for example when we launched we had a limited set of API's available. Now since then, with every release, now we have a release almost every month, where we are adding newer API's and newer functionality, we are actually adding more and more API's and again there is much more to add but that's the process and-- >> Just keep jamming and taking it in, backlog it, get it out there, iterating quickly? >> Exactly, and again, the one point to add here is we are not really just exposing an API, we are exposing an intent API so it's got slightly different. So instead of, say for example, I want to provision a wireless network, that is probably a 10 step process even within the DNA Center. What we want to give you is a single API which will do all of that and all of that heavy lifting will be done by the Cisco DNA Center platform. So, we will internally call the 10 separate API's. So for a developer who is building this, he or she may not be a network expert, they might not be an expert into how the network works so all they have to do is call one single API and all of the details or all the heavy lifting will be done by the platform, so they don't really have to worry about some of those details. >> So this is where the automation will get done on behalf of the customer. They'll come in, deploy DNA Center understand what's going on and that's where they do all of their work. Figure out what to do, get it done there. What's been the biggest use case so far? >> So, a lot of use cases. Like, we have a partner who is actually building a mobile app so we have a DNA Center which is sitting on prem in their own data center, they can go and look at the browser, open up the Cisco DNA Center console and look at the various workflows or see what's happening in the network. They might see there is a router which has crashed. Or an application which is having some application performance issue but what we want to see, is also, send us even send remotely and now their network admins could be walking in a grocery store, for example and the mobile, that alert shows up. Guess what, that is application is having an issue lets do the debugging so we will provide you all of that details within our API's, which can then show up in the application externally. >> So DNA Center platform has a takeover going on in the DevNet zone. We see classrooms, we've seen labs, give us a little bit of the flavor of the solutions for the next hour as well as at the show in general. >> In general here at the Cisco DevNet zone, we have a Cisco DNA Center takeover going on right now. We have workshops, we have sandbox labs, we have learning labs. You can go to any one of them and try it out. That is not only for this hour, that is there for throughout the show, but for this hour, we have a tech talk going on from one of our distinguished sales engineers Adam Rattford, he is talking all about DNA Center Platform in deep dive, showing live examples. We have some demo systems up and running here where you can actually see how we are able to generate events, how we are able to send events to external systems, so all of that is going on. Plus, we have all of our experts. A lot of our experts from the engineering team are here on the show right now on the show floor so if there are any questions around DNA Center Platform they will be more than willing to help. >> The brain trust is here. >> My understanding, I mean, when I have talked to people the DevNet group has labs running all the time. And that's what's great, I have talked to customers that say, I need to be able to play with this and here's something that's online, it's in the cloud I just do with it whenever so. >> Just to add to that, of course for our customers, our partners, our developers who want to try this out, they are more than welcome to come and join us in the Cisco DevNet zone here. Even if you are not at Cisco live, these sandbox lives are live online and we have I think around five or six of them and we are adding more to it. You can go anytime, try our API's on that sandbox. You don't really need to have your own environment. Now of course when you go production with it you will but just for trying out or building some applications, you can do it on the sandbox. >> Saurav, thanks so much for taking the time sharing some technical insight, went a little bit deep on the plug and play but appreciate your time coming on theCUBE, thanks for coming on and congratulations. DNA Center, the Cisco DNA Center Platform, the official name, really an oasis, a place to go in and configure the networks no brainer as far as I am concerned, check it out. theCUBE's bringing you the DNA of the show here, which is all the action, coverage, I'm John Furrier, Stu Minimin. Stay with us more here live in Barcelona and we will be back after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, with Dave Vellante as well, Stu Miniman, who's been doing interviews with us all week, our next guest is Roland Acra, Senior Vice President, General Manager of the Data Center Group. He's in charge of that core business of data center now, at the center of cloud and the edge. Roland, great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> So a lot of announcements, a lot of the big guns are out there for Cisco, you got the data center, you got the networking group, and you got IoT, and then cloud center suite was part of the big announcement, your team had a big piece of the keynote yesterday and continues to make waves. Give us a quick update on the news, the key points, what was the announcements? >> Yeah, the two big announcements for my group were ACI Anywhere and HyperFlex Anywhere, and we captured them under a common moniker of There's Nothing Centered About the Data Center Anymore, because both of these speak to things going outside the data center. ACI Anywhere is the integration of ACI, our software-defined networking solution, into two of the most prominent public cloud providers out there, Amazon and Azure, and for HyperFlex Anywhere, the exciting news is the expansion of HyperFlex, which is our hyper-converged solution, also outside the data center, to the edge of the enterprise, specifically branch offices and remote locations. >> And the other thing that came out of our conversation here on theCUBE and also on the keynote, is that the center of the value is the data center, as you guys pointed out with the slides, big circle in the middle, ACI Anywhere, HyperFlex Anywhere, but the network and the data and the security foundation has been a critical part of this new growth. >> Yes. >> Take a minute to explain the journey of ACI, how it started, where are we? It's been a progression for you guys, certainly inside the enterprise, but now it's extended. What's the journey, take us through that. >> When ACI came into the market five years ago now, we have a five year anniversary, ACI brought a software-defined networking solution into the market. It brought an automated network fabric capability, which said you can no longer screw yourself up by having incoherence between one part of the network and another, it's all managed coherently as one thing, and it brought, to your point about security, what's called segmentation of applications. Today, applications have data, they have databases, they have different sensitive pieces, and it's important to be able to tell the network not only get the traffic from one place to the other, but also selectively get the traffic that I tell you to get there, and not the one, and don't get the traffic that has no business getting there, and that's known as segmentation, which is a security concern, particularly when you have sensitive data like consumer data or things that have regulatory things around them. ACI has brought that to the market. That was the value proposition of ACI. We worked on then expanding ACI in the direction of scale. Customers have two or more data centers for disaster recovery, for resiliency, we made that possible. We got to bigger and bigger footprints. Then we took ACI to the edge of the enterprise. What if somebody wanted to put some computing capability in a store, or in a logistics center. ACI then was expanded with that. Step N minus one, was we took ACI to bare metal clouds. Customers now want to deploy also things in co-locations or bare metal clouds. We decoupled ACI software from the Cisco switches, which is the ACI hardware, and ACI became completely virtualized, and still able to be doing everything it does in hardware on premise, in software instead, in somebody's else's capability. And yesterday we announced the full combination of this, which is what if you don't want the ACI soft switching or hard switching, can you use the native switching of a public cloud, like Azure or AWS, and you tell the other APIs, please let those packets go from A to B because they're part of the whitelisted paths,, and don't let packets from C to D go because they're part of the blacklisted paths. And that was the full integration with these clouds-- >> Can you abstract that complexity? >> Completely, completely. One orchestrator, which is the multi-site orchestrator, the same one people have used on premise, that they've developed their policies around, so that we have invested a lot of sweat equity in that controller, it's where also they put their compliance, verification, and audit and assurance, and they use that thing even when something goes to Azure or it goes to AWS. >> So you mentioned the progression. So it's now your full progression, from core to the cloud, including edge-- >> Going through edge. >> What has been some of the results? You mentioned that segmentation's one of 'em, I get that. How has ACI been used, what are some highlights that show the value, because people start looking at ACI, saying, hmm, I like this, I like scale, I have a scale challenge with the new cloud world and edge, and complexity's abstracted away with software, okay, check, so far, so good. Where has been the success of ACI and how do you see that unfolding specifically in the cloud? >> Yeah, the biggest value our customers have gotten, cloud or no cloud, has been with ACI, they've been able to shorten the speed of change, shorten the time for change, therefore increase the speed of change of their network, because now the network needs to operate at the speed of the applications. Applications reconfigure themselves sometimes on hourly or daily basis, and it used to be that changing something in the network, you sent a ticket to somebody who took weeks to reconfigure things. Now that software-defined capability means the network reconfigures and people can change generations of compute on the fly, and the network is in lockstep with that. The agility and speed has been great. The other value has been the value of automation, which is people can run a bigger and bigger and bigger network with a small number of people. You don't have to scale your people the more switches you have. Again, because programming and automation comes to the rescue with that. >> Well I'll tell you, people who are watching right now can look behind Roland and see that it's a packed house. We're in the dev net zone, which has been the massively growing organization within Cisco. Community's been growing very fast, people are developing on top of the networks, and these are network folks, and as well there's new talent coming in. So skill gap is shortening, so you're getting a different makeup for a Cisco user, your customers are changing and changing, growing, existing base plus new people. Talk about that dynamic about how that impacts this intent-based networking, this notion of policy software is defined. >> Yes, you it's you know what many people have been calling infrastructure as code, which is you go from scripting to actually coding and composing very sophisticated automation capabilities and change management capabilities, for an automatable system, which is what ACI is. It's made for people drawing on the strengths that they were doing in the application domain or in the server domain, and bringing that into the network. And that's a new and exciting thing, it brought the network within the purview of coders, people who know how to do Python and know how to do Go language and things which are modern and exciting for the younger generation. It's made also for bringing the analytical capabilities, you know, a lot of what those young coders are used to is a lot of logs, a lot of visibility, a lot of analytics running on, because they've done that on web servers, they've done that on applications that run in the cloud, and we now offer the network, which is very rich in data. If you think about, we see every packet, we see every flow, we see every pattern of how the traffic is changing, and that becomes a data set that is subject to programming because then from there you can extract anomaly detection, you can extract security signatures of malware, you can extract prediction of where the traffic is going to be going in six months. There's a lot of exciting potential from the telemetry and the visibility that we bring into that framework. >> And as you point out, devs love that. I mean Cisco, we've talked about this, is one of the few large established companies that has, in our view, figured out developers, right? There's a lot of examples of those companies that haven't and continue to struggle, we've just witnessed here the dev crowd. I want to ask you about ACI and how it's different from, for example, VMware NSX. What's the differentiation there? >> The biggest differentiation is ACI is one system through which you manage the entire network, the overlay which is the virtual view of the network that the applications care about, as well as the underlay, which is the actual real delivery system that makes the packets get from A to B with quality of service and so forth. So that's first thing. It actually does a lot more, it has much more scope than NSX does. The other thing that's very unique about ACI is we have integrated it with every hypervisor on the planet and every container management framework on the planet, and ever bare metal system on the planet, which means that any workload, something sitting on a mainframe, something sitting on a Sun Oracle server, something on OpenStack on OpenShift, on VMware or on Hyper-V, and now on the EC2 APIs of AWS or on Azure, all of those are integrated with ACI. We're not wedded to one hypervisor, and our cloud implementation that we announced yesterday is a true integrated cloud capability, it's not a bring your own license and go put it on bare metal at AWS, which has been VMware's cloud strategy is to team up with AWS and let customers bring their software licenses into AWS bare metal. That's not EC2. And of course that's not Azure and that's not the other clouds we're going to be doing. So the openness to being multi-cloud on premise, which means every hypervisor and every container framework, and bare metal, with one system. We're extending that into the cloud to give customers choice and openness, that's really a very fundamental philosophy in networks. >> So much wider scope. That's kind of always been Cisco's philosophy in partnership. When you think about HyperFlex going back 10 years when you guys sort of created that with partners and then multiple partners now, maybe talk about that journey a little bit. >> HyperFlex? >> Yes. >> Yeah, 'cause hyperconvergence is another very exciting and fast growing trend in our industry. And really, HyperFlex started off with the hyperconverged infrastructure, started of being the notion of putting a mini-cloud in a box on-premise for application developers to rapidly deploy their applications, as if it was in the cloud. So speed and simplicity were really at a premium, and that's really what defines hyperconvergence. And we've done a tremendous amount of work at Cisco to make speed and simplicity there, because we've integrated network compute storage and a cloud management system called Intersight to give that whole capability to customers. We then hardened it. We took it from being able to do VDI kind of workloads and rather benign workloads, to mission-critical workloads. So databases are now running on HyperFlex. ERP systems are running on HyperFlex, the real crown jewels of the enterprise are now running on HyperFlex. Then we made it multi-cloud. We opened it to all hypervisors and to all container frameworks. We announced OpenShift yesterday, we have already done Hyper-V, we had done OpenStack and DSX, so again, same spirit of openness. And yesterday's announcement was, what if I want to take hyperconvergence outside of the data center in hundreds or thousands of remote locations? Think a retailer. In a retail environment, some of the most interesting data is born outside the data center, it's born in a store. The data is center that follows the customer who's interested in a plasma TV, and that data has a perishable lifetime. You act on it on location and on time or you lose the value. So sending it over, taking two hours to do a machine learning job on it and come back, the customer's already back home watching a movie. And so the window of opportunity for the data is often right there and then, and that's why our customers are taking their computing environment off into where the data is, to act on it fast and on location. >> It sounds easy but I want to just get your thoughts on this, because this is a critical data challenge. If data's stored in classic old ways, data warehouses and fenced off area, it's kind of in the internet, you're not going to have the latency to get that data in real time. Talking about real time data that's addressable for part of the application value. So this is a new notion that's emerged with dev ops and infrastructure as code. >> That's right. >> That's hard. How do you guys see that progressing, how should customers prepare to have that data centered properly for app addressability, discovery, whatever the uses of the data contextually is, time series data or whatever data it is, this is a critical thing. >> It's a critical thing, and there's no one answer, because depending on what the data is, sometimes you only see the value when you concentrate it and consolidate it, because the patterns emerge from rolling out a thousand stores worth of data and seeing that people who buy this toothbrush tend to buy that toothpaste. There may be that value where you want to concentrate the data, but there are also many things where acting on the data in the moment and on location quickly without referring to the other thousand stores extracts 90% of the value of that data. So that's why you want to do forward deploy computing on that data. >> So this highlights network programmability, this means the applications driving the queries or the network for that data, if it's available... So there's two things, network programmability from the app, and availability of the data. >> Yeah, and the ability for the entire infrastructure, network, compute, and storage, and hyperconvergence is the automation of all three to be able to deliver its value equally in remote locations or in a cloud, as it would have in a data center, because that's where, the application's going to want to go where the value is, and if the infrastructure can't follow it there, then you get a degraded ability to take advantage of the opportunity. >> Right, real time decisions happen at the edge, but then as you describe, you got to bring data back, certain data, back to the cloud, do the modeling there and then push the models back down. So you're going to have-- >> And you're going to have decision making distributed. >> And you've got to have low latency to be able to enable that. >> Yeah, and the same goes for other considerations. For example, why is it important to do, allow people to put data both on their premises and in the cloud? For disaster recovery, for data replication, for resiliency. Sometimes for governance reasons. GTPR in Europe says the data of European citizens that's personally identifying has to stay in Europe. Somebody may not have a data center in Europe. Could they take advantage of a co-location ability or somebody else's cloud? >> This is the theme we're seeing at this show this year, and certainly at the center of the news is, complexity is increasing 'cause it's just evolution, more devices are connected, diverse environments, scale for cloud and connectivity, but software driving that. So I got to ask you the question. Go back to the old days, you know, the 1990s, multi-vendor was a big word. Now multi-cloud feels the same way. This is the openness thing. How would you describe multi-cloud strategy for Cisco in context of this notion of being open? >> It is really the new dimension of openness, right? We've been open in the past to multiple forms of physical networks. Customers to use wireless or fiber or copper or what have you, we need to give them an IP network that operate equally well over all media. That was one dimension of openness. Another dimension of openness was, does a product from vendor A work with a product from vendor B? My router, your router, my switch, your firewall, those are other dimensions. Hardware and software coupling. Can I buy the hardware from Peter and the software from Mary, will it work well? The new dimension of openness is, can a customer avail themselves of any form of cloud, either because they like the tooling and how well their developers are more efficient on a given cloud, or because the pricing of the other guy, or the third guy has a point of presence in Tokyo, which this one doesn't. All of those are business choices that if we make our technology, let them take advantage of them with no technical restriction, they will, because now they can shop on the merit of what they want to do, and not on, oh well, sorry, if you want to go to Azure, I can't help you, but if you're willing to settle for your own premise or for Amazon, then I have a story for you. So that's-- >> Roland, you're leading the team on the core crown jewels for Cisco, as you guys, the rising tide's floating all boats here within the company. What's your plan for the year, what's your goals, you'll be out there pounding the pavement with customers, what's your objective, what do you hope to accomplish this year in 2019? >> Well 2019 is the year of many things for us, it's a very exciting year. It's the year of, on the physical infrastructure side, we're taking our switches to 400 gigabit per second. We have our new silicon capability, our new optics, so we're going to be able to scale for the cloud providers who are heading the next frontier of speed and density and scale. So performance will always, always be there, and when we're done with 400, we're already going to be asking about 800. So that's an exciting new generation of switches. ACI Anywhere getting deployed now and adopted across multiple clouds, is another exciting thing. HyperFlex Anywhere, we're really looking forward to the potential in financial services, in logistics, in retail, where's there's a lot of deployed data at the edge. And then, security is a never finished journey, right? Everything with give our customers in the way of security, because there, there's an active actor who's trying to make you fail, right? It's not that you're only fighting physics to get to 400 gigabit, then you win. There we have a guy who's trying to foil your schemes and trying to foil their schemes. Security is a great-- >> Constant attacks are on the network. You guys have seen this movie before, so you know how critical, Roland thanks so much for spending the time, congratulations on ACI Anywhere, HyperFlex Anywhere, intent-based networking at the core. It's theCUBE bringing you all the data, we have an intent here to bring you the best content from Cisco Live in Barcelona. I'm John, Dave Vellante, stay with us for live coverage, day two of three days of coverage here in the dev net zone, packed with developers learning new skills. We'll back with more after this short break.

(upbeat music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain it's the Cube! Covering Cisco Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone and we're live here at Cisco Live, 2019 in Europe. It's the Cube's three days of wall-to-wall coverage, day two. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Dave Vellante co-hosting with me as well as Stu Miniman who's been in and out on interviews. Our next guest is Alex Henthorn-Iwane, vice president of marketing for company Thousand Eyes. welcome back to the cube, welcome to the show. >> Thanks great to be here. >> So talk about what you guys do first, you guys do a very interesting business, a rapidly growing business. What is Thousand Eyes, what do you guys do, What's your product, who is your customer? >> OK, so the vision of thousand eyes was really to help organizations deal with all the connected experiences that they have to deliver. So we're giving visibility into those connected experiences but not just how there, you know if they're working or not but all the external dependencies that they rely on. So we developed a ton of expertise on how the internet works how the networks work, how routing works and all that. And we can give that insight so that all the things that IT now no longer controls and owns, but has to own the outcome for, we're giving that visibility. >> And when you guys sell a Saas Solutions, the software, what's the product? >> Yeah >> Who's the buyer? >> So we're Saas Platform and the way that we gather this data is we're primarily doing active monitoring at a few different layers; so we're monitoring the app layer things like HTTP and page loads and things like that you would think of that as synthetics classically but we've paired that with some patented ways of understanding how everything connects from a user out in the internet or from a branch office or from a data-center out to somewhere else typically across the internet all those networks the cloud networks going through things like Z-scaler all those complex pieces that again you don't control. We can trace all that and then map it down even to internet routing. One other kind of cool thing that we added to all that we do that on an agent basis so we have agents around the world that you can put them in your data-centers your VPC's and your branches. >> And the value proposition is what; visibility in the patterns; optimization; what's the outcome for the customer? >> The outcome is ultimately that we're going to help IT deliver the digital experiences for their employees for their customers that could be e-commerce, e-banking, it could be open banking or PSD2 here in Europe and UK. >> So full knowledge of what's going on >> Right >> But the name talks to that >> Yeah >> It talks to the problem you're solving >> Right, and it's really, the focus is and our specialty is all the external things, right. You've always had a lot of data, maybe too much data on the stuff that you did own, right, in IT. Okay, you could collect packets and flows and device status and all that sort of this and sort of, the challenge was always to know what does that mean, but whether or not that's perfect it exsited, but you simply can't get that from outside, you've got your four walls >> Yeah >> So you just have this big drop off in visibility once you get to the edge of your data-center etcetera >> Now, lets talk about the dynamics in IT; we were talking before we came on camera here about ya know, our lives in IT and going back and look at the history and how it's changed but there are new realities now >> Right >> Certainly Cisco here talking about intent based network ACI anywhere, Hyperflex anywhere, the ecosystem is growing the worlds changed. >> Right >> Security challenges, IOT, the whole things completely going high scale, more complexity. >> Right, Yeah. >> IT? What's the impact to IT? What's the structural change of IT from your prospective? >> Well, the way we see it what's happening with IT is the move from owning and controlling all the stuff, you know and managing that granting access to that. To a world where you really don't own a lot of the stuff anymore. You don't own the software, you don't own the networks. You don't own the infrastructure increasingly. Right? So how do you operate in that role? Changes. What the role of IT is in that role, really changes. And then out of that comes a big question. How does IT retain relevance? In that role? And a lot of that role is shifting away from being the proprietor, to being more of like a manager of an ecosystem. Right? And you need data to do that. So I think that's a really big step. >> So this is now, an actual job description kind of thing? >> Yeah. The roles and make up of the personnel in IT is changing. Because of the SAAS cloud, Hybrid cloud, Multi cloud? >> Right. It's more of like a product management role, than it is the classic operations role. You know? And we observed some really big changes in just operations. So, when you own all the stuff you can find a fix. Right? That's a classic statement of IT operations. But when all the stuff is outside, You can't fix it directly. So you go to what we call an evidence in escalation. You have to actually persuade someone else to fix it for you And if you can't persuade them, you don't have governance you don't have accountability and you don't have the outcome that you're supposed to deliver. >> So the infrastructure is to serve it's players; Google, Amazon, Microsoft, more SAAS All of this is taking data away from your control? >> Right >> And obviously network visibility? >> Sure >> So how are you guys dealing with that? What are some of the nuances of whether it's SAAS, or different infrastructures of service providers? >> And I would add to that SUN, Shift to the internet I would add to that just the increasing number of digital experiences that companies offer to customers. Right? >> Right. So the way that we deal with that is, that we believe that you need a highly correlated way of understanding things. Because at the top layer, if the outcome that IT is supposed to deliver is a digital experience. Right? The customers at the center now, not the infrastructure. Right? So I have to start with experience. So we need to look at, how is the app preforming? How is it delivering to that end user? And now you have to think about it from a persona basis. To who? Where? Right? So that's why we have all these agents floating around the world in different cities. Because if you're offering a let's say e-banking portal, and your surveying 100 cities as markets. You need to see from those cities, right? You also then need to be able to understand the why. When something is not working well, whose fault is it? Right? Is it us? >> Its the network guys! (laughing) >> What you don't to get is the everlasting war room circular firing squad kind of scenario. Where nobody actually knows, right? This is what happens, because the issue is that often times you suspect its not you. Maybe. Right? That search for innocents. >> Yeah. >> But again that's not enough because, the whole point is to deliver the experience. So, now who could it be? Say you're offering e-banking or e-commerce. Is it your CDM provider? Is it that your DMS manage provider is not responsive? Or somethings down? Are you under a D DOS attack? Or some of your ecosystem is. Is one of your back end providers, like your Braintree payments not working right. Right? There is so many pieces, is there an ISP in the middle there? That's being effected? >> There's so many moving parts now. >> If from each persona or location just to get to 1 URL. Could be traversing several ISP networks. Dozens of HOPS across the internet. How on earth are you supposed to isolate, and go an even find who to ask for help? That's a really sticky problem. >> So this will expose all those external credits? >> So we expose all those things. We expose all these multiple layers, and we have some patenting correlation, visual correlation. So you can say alright I see a drop in the responsiveness of a critical internal application or of .. I mean, we never have. Butt lets say like if SAAS like sails course, or something like that. And it may not be their fault by the way, its not them being a problem. But the users having a problem. So you see this drop and say well where's it happening? You can now say is it a network issue? Is it an app issue? Now if it is a network issue I can look at all the paths, from every where and say aha there's a commonality here. For example, we could surface through our collective intelligence that there's an ISP outage in the middle of the internet that's causing this. Or we could say, hey you know your ISP is having an issue. Or guess what? Sales force is maybe, you know things happen. People have problems in data centers sometimes. It's nothing you know, it's not.. >> So there's two things there's the post mortem view, and there's the reactive policy based intention. >> Right >> To say okay hey we've got an outage, go here do somethings take some action. >> Right. So some of those things you can automate. But the fact of the matter is that, automation requires learning. And machines need to be taught, and humans have to teach them. I mean that's one of the sort of sticky parts of automation. (laughing) Right, its not auto-magic its automation. >> So you guys are in the data business basically? >> Right, visibility, data. Right. >> Big data, its about data. You're servicing data. Insights, actionable insights, all this stuffs coming together. So the question is on AI. Cause AI plays a role here. IT OPS and machine learning you've got deterministic and non deterministic behavior. >> Sure. >> How do you solve the AI OPS problem here? Because this is a great opportunity for customers, to automate all this complexity and moving parts. To get faster time to data or insight. >> Okay so I would say that the prime place where you could do AI and ML is where you have a relatively closed system. Lets say an infrastructure that you do control. And you have a ton of data. You know like a high volumetric set of data-streams. That you can then train a machine to interpret. The problem with externalities is that One, you have sparse data. For example we have to use agents, cause you can't get all that traditional data from it. Right? So that means that that's why we built this in a visually correlated way. It's the only way to figure it out. But the other aspect to that is that, when your dealing with external providers you have an essential human part of this. There's no way as far as I know to automate an escalation process with your service providers. Which now we have so many, right? First of all, we have to figure out who. And then you have to have enough evidence, to get an escalation to happen to the right people. Empowered people. So they don't go through the three D's of provider response. Which is Deny, Deflect and Defer. (laughing) Right? You know you have to overcome plausible deniability, and that's very human interaction. So the way we deal with that. All this interactive correlated data we make it ridiculously easy, To share that. in an interactive way, with a deep link that you send to your provider and say "just look and see" and you can see that it's having issues. >> So get the evidence escalated, that's the goal as fast as possible? >> Right so then your time, like your mean time to repair now in the cloud is dependent on mean time to effective escalation. Right? >> Who are some of your customers? >> So, we have our kind of foundational customers. We have 20 of the top 25 SAAS companies in the world, as our customers. We have five of the top six US banks, four of the five top UK banks. 100 plus of global two thousand and growing fast. A lot of verticals, I would say enterprise I started with financials not surprisingly. But now we see heavy manufacturing, and telecom and oil and gas and all that. >> What's going on here at Cisco Live? What's your relationship with Cisco? >> So with Cisco we have a number of integration points, we have our enterprise agents. We have these could agents pre deployed, same software as what we call the enterprise agent. That's been certified as an VNF or as container deployments, on a variety of Cisco Adriatic platforms. So that's kind of our integration point. where we can add value and visibility from those you know, branch or data center or other places you know out to the cloud or outside in as well. >> And who's your buyer, typically? >> So I would say a couple of years ago we would be very network central. But now because of the change in IT, and our crossover into the largest enterprises we find that now it's the app owners. It's the folks who are rolling out sales force to forty thousand people and their adopting lighting. Right? You know or they're putting Office 365 out, and they're dealing with the complexities of a CDM based service or a centralized service like SharePoint. So we're seeing those kind of buyers emerge, along with the classic IT operations and network buyers. >> So it only gets better for you, as more API centric systems get out there. Because as its more moving parts, its basically an operating system. And you look at it wholistically, and you got to understand the IO if you will? >> Right. The microservices way of doing everything, means that when you click something or you interact with something as a user. There are probably 20 things happening at a back end, at least half of which are going off across the internet. And all of them have to work flawlessly. Right? For me to get that experience that I'm expecting. Whether I'm trying to buy something or, just get something done. >> What's your secret sauce in the application? >> So I'd say our secret sauce comes down to a couple really key things. One is the data that we generate. We have a unique data center from all these vantage points that we have now. That's what allows us to do this collective intelligence. No body else has that data. And an example we did a study, a couple studies last year. Major resource studies using our platform to look at public cloud performance from the internet within regions. Inter regions, and between clouds. And we found some really interesting phenomenon. And no body else had ever published that before. A lot of assumptions, a lot of inter-claims, we where actually able to show with data, exactly how this stuff performs. >> I'm sorry, you guys have published that? Where can we find that? >> Yeah, so we have that published, we also did another major report on DNS. >> Is that on your website? >> It's on our website, so definitely something to check out. >> Alright, Alex well thanks for coming on, give the quick plug, what's up for you guys? Hiring? What's new? Give the quick two cents. >> So here in Europe we're scaling up, hiring a lot and expanding across Europe. We have major offices in London and Dublin, so that's a big deal. And I think in this next year you'll see some bigger topped out ways that we can help folks understand. Not just how the internet is effecting them, but more of like the unknown of unknowns of internet behavior. So there's going to be some exciting things coming down the pipe. >> Well we need a thousand eyes on all the instrumentation as things become more instrumented having that data centric data. is it going to help feed machine learning? And again its just the beginning of more and more complexity being abstracted away by software on network Programmability. theCUBE bringing you The Data Here from Barcelona, for Cisco Live! Europe 2019 stay with us for more day 2 coverage after the short break. I'm Jeff Furrier here with Dave Vellante, thanks for watching. ( upbeat music )

(funky music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering CISCO Live Europe. Brought to you by CISCO and it's ecosystem partners. >> Everyone welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live Europe 2019, I'm John Furrier, and my co-host, Stu Miniman. Our next guest Sachin Gupta, senior vice-president of product management in Cisco's enterprise networking business, it's the crown jewels of Cisco, Sachin got the keys to the kingdom. Runs project management, so we get all the info from you, thanks for joining us. Good to see you again, good to see you again, king alumni. >> Yes, thanks. >> Thanks for coming on, I know you've got a keynote at 12 coming up shortly, thanks for spending the time, I'll get right to it. Networking is being reinvented, David Geckler said that onstage yesterday in the keynote. It's not changing, it's just shaping differently for customer needs intent-based networking, we talked briefly last year at Cisco Live in North America moving up the stack, it's here. Intent-based networking, cloud connections, IOT, all kinds of edge con activity, everything's connected, now on to the network. This is real. >> This is real, and John, look, it's been really exciting, right? We've gone through an 18 month journey here, when we first introduced in tent-based networking we talked about moving away from CLI box by box to really solving the problem at an abstracted, intent layer. Specify what user groups and what segments you want, what experience you want to deliver for those applications, and then the network feeding the data back up so you can learn from it, you can manage it, you can troubleshoot it in a much, much simpler way. We're now into this, as I said, 18 months. We have thousands of customers already using intent based networking we talked about software defining access for automated segmentation in the campus, talked about insurance, and then we've been adding capability along the way. And in just this week, David Geckler had people on stage, talked about more innovations with intent-based networking in the data center with ACI anywhere, with innovations on hyper flex. Liz came on and talked about IOT, and how that fits into the framework. And then Gordon talked about what we're doing with SD Ren, really, really exciting stuff going on there. >> Well, why don't you take a minute and quickly explain for the folks watching want to get us on the record so we can get definition. What is intent-based networking? What does it mean, what's the impact for the customers, what is it? >> Intent-based networking means that you can now express your business intent. Here's the outcome I'm looking for from the infrastructure. The system and the architecture will convert that automatically, provision, all the underlying components get the data and the context back out and prove to you that the intent you wanted was delivered. >> And what is changing now, more than ever, because applications are coming on. We see DevNet, we're in the DevNet zone. Seeing a lot of activity, developers. >> Yeah, so now you've got networks that are preventable instead of individual devices that you have to learn from the ground up, all their bells and whistles, you can now live at that intent layer, add an API layer on top of the controllers and move much more quickly. You can now start thinking about multiple domains, and how you cross those domains. >> What is the big product change, if any, especially software, is key to all of this? We've got plenty of hardware. You mentioned Liz in IOT, still runs router, she takes that software, she packages them. We interviewed her yesterday, she was talking about the synergies between code bases in which she customizes for the IOT market, then you've got the intent-based networking. What's the product look like, what's the products as they get more horizontal? >> Yes, so make no mistake, the hardware is still very important. Silicon ASIC's very important, but the magic now is in the software layer. So it starts with the operating system, and Liz talked about how we now have the Cisco IOS EXE operating system, which is modular hot patchable API driven programmable, and now runs across the entire portfolio. It runs on her ruggedized IOT infrastructure, runs on our switches, run on the wireless controller, runs on the routers and the SDWAN nodes, virtual and physical, same operating system. And then the SD controller layer on top of that. So for the campus, you've got DNA centers. So let's code DNA center, and then for the WAN you've got Cisco, the TeleV manage solution that provides a controller layer for automation, for analytics on top of the infrastructure. >> I wonder if we can unpack that SDWAN piece a bit, because WAN's been around a long time. I think back to the 90s, WAN was something that helped us get the internet. In the 2000s there was WAN optimization, I worked on a lot of replication solutions. I'm not sure that people understand the connection between SDWAN and really enabling the multi-cloud world that we need today, and the portfolio that Cisco has to attract that. >> You mentioned the 90s, I joined Cisco in 97, and I actually worked in WAN technical support. (laughing) So I've been with WAN for a very long time. And the customers aren't waking up and saying hey, I need a new WAN. That's not how the conversation starts. What's happening is it's a business transformation question. The companies, the customers are using infrastructure as a service, AWS services. They're using ACER, they're using Google Cloud platform. They're using all the SaaS products. Webex from Cisco, right, they're using Office 365. They're using all of these new applications and their data is not sitting in the data center. I mean, as we've noticed this week, the data center moves to where your data is. Well now, if your data isn't in it's data center that's conveniently connected through a WAN connection and it's all over the place. It's in the cloud, in many clouds. You have to think about, how do you get traffic in and out, how do you deliver security, and in this world where you may be using internet connections and all kinds of connections, how do you deliver the right application experience, and then oh, by the way, how do you manage all of this? That's what SDWAN is about, I need to transfer my business as I move applications or consume cloud services, I need to re-architect my WAN, and SDWAN helps me go do that. >> A big piece of that is what a network person needs to manage today, a lot of what they need to manage, they don't own. They don't control it, and some of that means I can't necessarily put a box that I can dial into and do this, so I need a software piece that I can put there as part of my overall configuration. >> Yes, you need a software piece, and you need something that scales to something that is cloud delivered. You can't be going to hundreds or thousands of sites and manually provisioning these for these services. You need to be able to have virtual services. If you're consuming a cloud service, you need your router or your service presence, your SDWAN presence in the cloud, right? So virtual network functions, virtual services become really critical in this world. >> Just on scale, you know, I've worked with Cisco on a lot of branch solutions over my career, there's lots of different components of scale that these type of solutions play into. >> Okay, people say if everything is in the cloud, does the scale requirement go down? All you think about is do I have 100 sites and I had one or two data centers. Alright, well now I have the same hundred sites, and I have hundreds of services. SaaS applications I'm consuming, and as I said, infrastructure as a service. And I still have some data centers for my legacy applications as well. So the complexity has actually increased, the scale requirement has increased. I need a much better software method, a software define method, to manage all of this. >> This is a key point, a lot of inflection points in the industry always have an abstraction layer to abstract away complexities. So you got two things going on here that are pretty clear, there's more complexity and more scale. So software's the perfect solution to manage that, is that what you're saying? >> Software's the perfect solution to manage this, and that's sort of one more level to that complexity. Because your traffic isn't neatly going from your branch through sort of a lease line or MPLS circuit that you can VPN into a data center, it's a more complicated traffic flow. I might be connecting directly to the internet securely is a huge concern. >> This is a great point, I was going to ask you the flow question, you know the old expression "follow the money and you'll find your answers." In networking, in this business, follow the traffic. Remember, north, south, east, west. That became a paradigm that helped shape a lot of network architecture. Now you have new traffic patterns. Can you give some color around the new traffic patterns and with cloud, comes with Edge, it's not just north, south, east, west, it's everywhere, so give- >> So a new traffic pattern now can be, instead of from the branch through your headquarters to your data center, now the traffic pattern is direct internet access to the SaaS application. Or go to a regional hub that I have in a co-location facility. Well, in the old world you had a security stack in your DMC. So it had your best firewall, your best IPS solution, all layered in there. Now in this new world with your traffic hitting directly, those applications and data in the cloud, you have to rethink security. So what we did in our SDWAN solution, we embed the best Cisco security technology application firewall, URL filtering, IPS solutions natively in our SDWAN software stack. And so you can deploy this across hundreds of branches now, and so you have assurance that the same level of security that you had in your data center can be delivered in a distributed way, in an easy way. And what happens is, customers also want to consume cloud security. You know, maybe I don't want to run in my branch, I actually have a SaaS application, I want to use the Cisco Umbrella service. Alright, so this is a secure internet gateway that processes this traffic, makes sure things are clean, makes sure we are safe, the customers are safe, and we can now integrate with cloud services in our SDWAN solution with just one click. >> How important is this security paradigm you just mentioned? Because there probably will be consequences. We've seen IOT become a talking point around oh, surface area, more surface area for the security breaches. This security paradigm's different. Why is it important and what are the consequences if not followed? >> If you don't follow this paradigm, I think the risk you run into that first of all, you will make a compromise on application experience because you're so worried about security. Let me give you an example, customers may choose, hey, you know what, I'll continue hair pinning all my traffic through my headquarters because I have a rich security stack there, and suffer an application experience because I'm going this way to get to the cloud asset rather than going directly, and so by enabling that rich security stack to be virtually enabled anywhere you want it, anywhere you need it, we can ensure that you can have the maximum level security that you need in your architectural design, and still get the application experience by selecting the best path for your application. >> And it's good business to be in enabling technology. We've seen that, you guys have lived that at Cisco. What is the most important story coming out of Cisco, out of this show, as you guys move forward that customers and the industry should pay attention to in your opinion? What's the most important story? >> I think the most important part of the story is, intent-based networking and the architectural shift, the reinvention that it's created isn't about any single domain, right? This is happening in the WAN to solve application experience problems, SaaS application experience problems, security problems, automations, scale. It's happening in the campus for segmentation, prevent lateral movement of threats. It's happening in the data center with ACI, and the customers want simple outcomes. What they're looking for is users, devices, things connecting to applications and data, doesn't matter where they sit, and ensuring that from a policy based model, they can automate end to end, and they can get the visibility, the telemetry end to end to solve problems and to learn and to improve the network. >> So cross domain traffic, application probability of the network, and the role of data that plays in that seems to be a common thread. >> Beautifully summarized, John, that's exactly right. >> Well, what's coming up in the keynote? What are you going to talk about at noon here in Barcelona? >> Yeah so in the keynote, I'm going to recap why have we done this, why does it matter, and why isn't CLI still going to work for you, and why did we need to reinvent networking? And then talk about the journey so far, all the new things we've announced, and then what I'm really excited about is I have a partner coming on stage with me talking about how we're delivering SDWAN solutions for our customers, how does that conversation work, and what should you really worry about as you select the service, design the architecture you're going to go with. >> Sachin, I want to go back in time, jog your memory, I remember back in the 90s, multi vendor was a big word, multi vendor improbability. Multi vendor meant working with multiple industry standard stuff. I hear multi cloud, I get a similar vibe. This seems to be the trend that people want to pay attention to just as much as hybrid cloud or maybe more on the multi cloud side, some are even saying, multi cloud is hotter than hybrid cloud. Do you agree with that, and how does multi vendor, multi cloud jive to Cisco? You guys thrived in a multi vendor world. What's your thoughts on this multi cloud? >> I think in both of those situations, customers are looking for freedom. It needs to be open, API driven. I should be able to move my traffic from one place to the other, my applications from one place to the other and not feel locked in. And so it's critical to support open protocols, open APIs and to provide customers that freedom. An SDWAN actually helps provide that. We're using open protocols open APIs, but at the same time, if I need to move my service from here to there, and I still need to deliver security, application experience, scale, automation, you can do that. So we provide that freedom to run that application in the multi cloud environment. >> One of the things that comes up all the time when we have conversations with the geeks out there at the conferences, it's microservices in containers on one side, and then on the networking side it's still latency and cost, you've still got latency issues and cost to move traffic around. Still a dynamic, how are you guys still looking there? 'Cause latency is certainly super important, and networking will be moving packets around, moving traffic around, and cost, there's still cost. Is this the concept of data center moving to the applications? How do you guys look at that cost equation and the latency equation, that's still important, can't change the laws of physics. >> The cost of latency equation is still really important, but the problem has changed, now. As your applications now, your data center is sort of moving with the cloud. Think about Office 365, we still need to help you get the best experience for Office 365 as if you were running an on-prem solution. For that we need to do things very different, we need to manage latency, to manage jitter, to manage cost overall. So what we've done is we use an API integration with Office 365 to give you 40% better performance for that fast application, and we're doing this for many applications. So I think you're right, you're solving for similar things, but now everything's changed on here. The applications are in a different place. So you just have to solve them in a fundamentally new way. >> And that's the traffic patterns, really comes down to it, and that's a tell sign of user expectation, user behavior, application behavior, this is the new normal. >> This is the new normal. >> What are you excited for looking forward as you look at your business, you look at Cisco, positioning style, I like the new position, very tight, very good, I like A Bridge to Tomorrow, A Bridge to the Future, kind of makes sense. Bridge, I like the double entendre there. But as you look at the portfolio coming together with multi cloud, what are you excited about? >> Look, and I've heard this from many customers and partners this week as well at Cisco live, we've been on this journey for many years. Building out intent-based networking for each of these domains, and now we've got thousands of customers already using it. But the conversations are going from hey, why did we need to do this? To, hey, help me perfect my design, and I now need to connect two or three domains together, how do we go do that? So we're now having richer, more mature next phase conversations. So it's working with our customers to realize that value across all of the domains from anywhere where there are users and things start anywhere with data and application sessions. >> And the network is foundational with the security architecture, you can build on that, that's where the magic will happen from your perspective, you see that. >> That's where the magic will happen, and you know what, only Cisco can pull this off. Because we have leadership in every one of those domains, and we're following the same architectural principles across all of them. >> So if someone said Sachin, this is not your grandfather's SDWAN, what do you respond to that? How do you update that narrative? What is the SDWAN new message, what's the new picture for SDWAN, what does that mean? >> The new SDWAN is about connecting to your applications and data in any cloud in a multi cloud environment, SaaS, IOS applications, it doesn't matter. Any private data center, still delivering the best security, best application experience in an automated way at the skill that you need. >> Okay, at the center of the value properties, have been saying on theCUBE for nine years, finally it's happening, a lot of stuff coming together meeting the road, congratulations on your success, and thanks for spending the time to come in. Great to see you, good luck on your keynote. This is theCUBE coverage live in Barcelona. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, back with more coverage here from Cisco Live after this short break, stay with us. (funky music)

>> Live, from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live! Europe brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, live here, in Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE's coverage of Cisco Live! Europe 2019, I'm John Furrier my co-host Dave Vellante, our next guest is Liz Centoni, Senior Vice President, General Manager of the IoT group at Cisco, formerly as part of the engineering team, Cube alumni, great to see you again, thanks for coming on! >> Great to be here, always good to see you guys. >> So you're in the center of a lot of news, IOT, edge of the network, redefining networking on stage, we heard that, talk about your role in the organization of Cisco and the products that you now have and what's goin' on here. >> So I run our IoT Business group. Similar to what we do with EN, data center, all of that, it has the engineering team, product management team, we build products, solutions, that includes hardware, software, silicon, take 'em out to market, really in IoT it's about you know, the technology conversation comes second. It's like, what can you deliver in terms of use case, and business outcomes that comes first. And it's more about what technology can enable that, so the conversations we have with customers are around, how can you really solve my kind of real problems. Everything from, I want to grow my top line, I want to get closer to my customers, because the closer I get to my customers, I know them better, so obviously, I can turn around and grow my top line. And I want to optimize everything from internal process to external process, because just improves my bottom line at the end of the day. >> So a lot of news happening here around your team, but first, talk about redefining networking in context to your part because, edge of the network has always been, what is, you know, edge of the network, now it's extending further, IoT is one of those things that people are looking at from a digitization standpoint, turning on more intelligence, with a factory floor or other areas, how is IoT changing and what is it today? >> So you gave an example of you know, digitizing something like a factory floor. Right, so let's talk about that. So what do customers on the factory floor want to do? They've already automated a number of this factory floors, but what they want to do is get more efficient. They want better EL, they want better quality. They want to bring security all the way down to the plant floor, 'cause the more and more you connect things, the more you've just expanded your threat surface out pretty significantly. So they want to bring security down to the plant floor because these are environments that are not brand new they had brown field equipment they had green field equipment. They want to be able to have control over what device gets on the network with things like device profiling. They want to be able to do things like, create zones so that they can do that with things like network segmentation so when and if an attack does happen, they can contain the attack as much as possible alright? Now, what you need in terms of a factory floor, automation, security, to be able to scale, to have that flexibility, that's no different than what you have in the enterprise already. I mean we've been working with our IT and enterprise customers for years, and you know, they, it's about automation and security, it's about simplicity. Why not extend that out, the talent that IT has, the capability that it has, it really is a connective tissue that you're extending your network from that carpeted space, or your clean space into outside of the office, or into the non-carpeted space so it's perfect in terms of saying, it's about extending the network into the non-traditional space that probably IT doesn't go into today. >> Well right and it's a new constituency, right? So, how are you sort of forging new relationships, new partnerships, what is, describe what that's like, with the operations technology folks. >> I mean at Cisco, we have great partnerships with the IT organization, right? I mean we've got more than 840,000 customers and our sales teams, our product teams do a good job in terms of listening to customers. We're talking more and more to the line of business, we're talking more and more to the operational teams. Because at the end of the day, I want to be candid. You know, going to a manufacturing floor, I've never run a plant floor, right? There are not very many people in the team who can say, I've been a plant manager before. They know their processes, they're concerned about 24/7 operation, hey I want to be in compliance with the fire marshal. Physical safety of my workers. We come in with that IP knowledge, that security knowledge that they need. It's a partnership, I mean people talk about IT and OT convergence, usually, convergence means that, mm, somebody's going to lose their job, this is more and IT and OT partnership. And most of these digitization efforts, usually come in for the CIO level or a chief digitization officer, we've got good relationships there already. The second part is, Cisco's been in this for quite some time our teams already have relationships at the plant level at the grid level, operator level, you know, in the oil and gas area, but we need to build more and more of that. Because building more and more of that is really understanding what business problems are they looking to solve? Then we can bring the technology to it. >> Liz, what's that in the enablement, you mentioned partnership, 'cause that's a good point, 'cause people think, oh, someone wins, someone loses, the partnership is you're enabling, you're bringing new capability into the physical world, you know, from wind farms to whatever. What does the enablement look like, what are some of the things that happen when you guys come into these environments that are being redefined and re-imagined or for the first time? >> Yeah I would say, you know, I'd use what our customer said this morning. And what he said was, IT has the skills that I need alright? They have the IP skills, they have the security skills. These are all the things that I need. I want my guys to focus on kind of business processes. Around things that they know best. And so, we're working with IT as part of what we're putting this extended enterprise, extending Intent-Based Networking to the IoT edge means, IT already knows our tools, our capabilities, we're now saying, we can extend that, let's go out, figure out what those use cases are together, this is why we're working with, not just the IT, we're working with our channel partners as well, who can enable these implementations on IoT implementations work well. Part of this is also a constant, you know, learning from each other. We learned from the operational teams is that, hey you can start a proof of concept really well, but you can't really take it to deployment unless you address things around the complexity, the scale and the security, that's where we can come in and help. >> And you can't just come in and throw your switches and routers over the fence and say, okay, here you go. You have to develop specific solutions for this world right? And can you talk about that a little bit? And tell us what you're doing here? >> Absolutely, so, if you look at the networking, industrial networking portfolio that we have, it's built on the same catalyst, ISR, wireless APs or firewall, but they're more customized for this non-carpeted space, right? You've got to take into consideration that these are not sitting in a controlled environment. So, we test them for temperature, for shock, for vibration, but it's also built on the same software, so we're talking about the same software platform, you get the same automation features, you get the same analytics features, it's managed by DNA center, so, even though we're customizing the hardware for this environment, the software platform that you get, is pretty much the same, so IT can come in and manage both those environments, but IT also needs an understanding of what's the operational team looking to solve for? >> Liz, I want to ask you about the psychology of the buyer in this market. Because OT, they're running stuff that's just turnin' on, put in the lightbulb, make it work, what I got to deploy something? So their kind of expectations might be different, can you share what the expectations are, for the kind of experience that they want to have with that? >> I use utility as a great example. And our customer from Ennogie, I think explained this really well. This is thing that we learned from our customers right? I haven't been in a sub station, I've been in a data center multiple times, but I haven't been in a sub station, so when they're talking about automating sub station, we work with customers, we've been doing this over the last 10 years, we've been working with that Ennogie team for the last two years, they taught us really, how they secure and manage in these environments. You're not going to find a CCIE in this environment. So when you want to send somebody out to like 60,000 sub stations, and you want to check on, hey do I still have VPN connectivity? They're not going to be able to troubleshoot it. What we did is based on the customer's ask, put a green light on their LED that shines green, all the technician does is look at it and says, it's okay. If not, they call back in terms of troubleshooting it. It was just a simple example of where, it's different in terms of how they secure and manage and the talent that they have is different than what's in the IT space, so you've got to make sure that your products also cover what the operational teams need, because you're not dealing with the CCIE or the IP expert. >> So it's the classic market fit, product market fit for what they're expecting. >> Correct. >> LEDs, you can't go wrong with a green light, I mean. (laughter) >> You know, everybody goes, that's such an easy thing, it's like well, it was not that perceptive to us. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned as you've moved from Cisco engineering out to the new frontier on the edge here, what are the learnings that you've seen, obviously growing mark early, it's only going to get large and more complicated, more automation, more AI, more things, what's your learnings, what have you seen so far that's a takeaway? >> So I'll say, I'm still in Cisco engineering. The reason we're in IoT is that, a secure and reliable network, that's the foundation of any IoT deployment alright? You can go out and buy the best sensor, buy the best application buy the best middleware, but if you don't have that foundation, that's secure and reliable, those IoT projects are not going to take off, so it's pretty simple, everyone's network is the enabler of their business outcome, and that's why we're in it. So this is really about extending that network out, but at the same time, understanding what are we looking to solve for, right? So in many cases, we work with third party partners, 'cause some of them know these domains much better than we do, but we know the IP, we are the IP and the security experts, and we bring that to the table better than anybody else. >> And over the top, DevNet showing here for the second year that we've covered it, here in DevNet zone, that when you have that secure network that's programmable, really cool things can develop on top of it, that's a great opportunity. >> Yeah, this is, I'm super excited that we now have an IoT DevNet. You know, as part of our entire Cisco DevNet. Half a million dev-opers you know, Susie Wee and team done a fabulous job. There's more and more dev-opers going to be starting to develop at the IoT edge, at the edge of the network, right? So when you look at that as, our platforms today with IRX on top of it, make this a software platform that dev-opers can actually build applications to, it's really about, you know, we're ready, ISVs and dev-opers unleashing those applications at the IoT edge. And with Susie making that, you know, available in terms of the tools, the resources, the sandbox that you can get, it's like, we expect to see more and more dev-opers building those applications at the edge. >> We got to talk about your announcements, right, so. >> Oh yeah, exciting set of announcements. >> What's the hard news? >> So we launched four things today as part of extending IBN, or Intent-Based Networking to the IoT edge, the first one is, we've got three new Cisco-validated designs. So think of a validated design as enabling our customers to actually accelerate their deployments, so our engineering teams try to mimic, as much as possible, a customer's environment. And they do this pre-integration, pre-testing of our products, third party products. And we actually put 'em out by industry. So we have three new ones out there for manufacturing, for utilities, and for remote and mobile assets, that's one. The second one is we're launching two new hardware platforms, a next-generation catalyst industrial ethernet switch, it's for modularity of interfaces, and it's got nine expansion packs. The idea is, make it as flexible as possible for a customer's deployment. Because these boxes might sit in an environment not just for three years like in a campus, they could sit there for five, for seven, for 10 years. So as you know, they, adding on, giving them that flexibility, they can be a base system and just change the expansion modules, we also launched our next-generation industrial router. It actually is the industry's probably first and only full IPV Six-capable industrial router. And it's got, again flexibility of interfaces, we have LTE, we have fiber, we have copper, you want dual LTE you can actually slap an expansion pack right on top of it. When 5G comes in, you just take the LTE module out, you put 5G, so it's 5G ready. >> Expansions on there. >> And it's based on IOSXC, it's managed by DNA Center, and it's edge-enabled, so they run IOX, you can build your applications, and load 'em on. So we can build 'em, third parties can build 'em. >> And the DevNet piece here as well. >> And the DevNet piece is the third one where we now have, you know, an IoT dev-oper center in the DevNet zone, so with all the tools that are available, it enables dev-opers and ISVs to actually build on top of IOX today. In fact, we actually have more than a couple of three examples that are already doing that. And the fourth thing is, we depend on a large ecosystem of channel partners, so we've launched an IoT specialization training program to enable them to actually help our customers' implementation go faster. >> Mhm. >> So those are the four things that we brought together. The key thing for us was, designing these for scale, flexibility, and security. >> And are these capabilities available today is that right? >> Absolutely, in fact, if you go in, we're shipping in two weeks! And you can see them at the innovation showcase, it's actually very cool. >> I was going to mention, you brought up the ecosystem, glad you brought that up, I was going to ask about how that's developing, I could only imagine new sets of names coming out of the industry in terms of building on these IOTs since this demand for IOT, it's an emerging market in terms of newness, with a lot of head room, so what's the ecosystem look like, is there a pattern, is it ISVs, VARs, does it take the shape of the classic ecosystem or is it a new set of characters or, what's the makeup of the ecosystem? >> Yeah, it's I would say it's, in many ways, if you've been in the IoT world for some time, you'll say, you know, it's not like there's a whole new set of characters. Yes, you have more cloud players in there, you probably have more SIs in there, but it's been like, the distributors are in there, the machine-builders, the OT platforms, these are folks who've been doing this for a long time. It's more around, how do you partner, and where do you monetize? We know where you know, the value we bring in, we rely on, we work very closely with those OT partners, machine-builders, SIs, the cloud partners, to go to market and deliver this. You're right, the market's going to evolve, because the whole new conversation is around data. What do I collect, what I compute at the edge? Where do I route it to, should I take it to my on-premise's data centers, should I take it to the cloud? Who gets control over that data, how do I make sure that I have control over the data as the customer, and I have control over who gets to see it. So I think this will be a evolving conversation. This is something we're enabling with one of our Kinetic platforms, which are not launched, it's already launched in terms of enabling customers to have control over the data and manage the data as well. >> And bringing all the portfolio of Cisco security analytics, management to the table, that puts anything in the world that has power and connectivity to be a device to connect into a system, this is the, I mean how obvious can it be? It's going to be huge! >> It's great that you think it's obvious, that's exactly what we're tryin' to tell our customers-- >> How to do it-- >> Well this is about extending this out. >> Yeah, how do we do it's the playbook right? So, each business has its own unique, there's no general purpose IoT is there? >> Correct. >> It's pretty much on a custom custom-- well thanks for coming on Liz, appreciate it. Want to ask you one final question. You know, I was really impressed with Karen had a great session, Karen Walker had a great session yesterday, impact with women, we interviewed you at Grave Hopper in 2015. Cisco's doing amazing work, can you take a minute to talk about some of the things that Cisco's doing around women in computing, women in STEM, just great momentum, great success story and great leadership. >> I would say look at our leadership at Chuck's level, and I think that's a great example in terms of, he brings people on depending on what they can, what they bring to the table, right? They just happen to be a lot of women out there, and the reality is, I work for a company that believes in inclusion, whether it's gender, race, different experiences, different thoughts, different perspectives because, that's where truly, in terms of, you can bring in the culture that drives that innovation. I've been sponsoring our Women in Science and Engineering for I can't remember, the last four or five years. It's a community that continues to grow. And, the reality is, we don't sit in there and talk about, you know, woe is me, and all the things that are happening, what we talk about is, hey what are the cool new technologies that are out there, how do I get my hands on 'em? And yeah, there are, we talk about some things where women are a little reticent and shy to do, so what we learn from other peoples' experiences, many time the guys are very interesting, so what do you sit down there and talk, and I said trust me it's not like, a whining and moaning session, it's more in terms of where we learn from each other. >> Peers talking and sharing ideas-- >> Absolutely. >> Of innovation and building things. >> Yep, and we've got, you know, we look around and we've got a great set of woman leaders throughout the company at every single level in every function. It's great to be there, we continue to sponsor our Grace Hopper, we have some of the biggest presence at Grace Hopper, we do so many other things like connected women within the company. It's just a, I would say, fabulous place to be. >> You guys do a lot of great things for society, great company, great leadership, thank you for doing all of that, it's phenomenal, we love covering it too, so, we'll be at the cloud now today in Silicon Valley, Women in Data Science at Stanford, and among other great things. >> It's definitely a passion of ours. >> Yeah. (talking over each other) >> Awesome, that's great to hear. >> Thanks for coming on, this is theCUBE, live coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco Live! 2018, back with more after this short break, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, be right back. (upbeat music)