(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We're covering Red Hat Summit 2022. We're going to wrap up now, Dave Vellante, Paul Gillin. We want to introduce you to Stephanie Chan, who's our new correspondent. Stephanie, one of your first events, your very first CUBE event. So welcome. >> Thank you. >> Up from NYC. Smaller event, but intimate. You got a chance to meet some folks last night at some of the after parties. What are your overall impressions? What'd you learn this week? >> So this has been my first in-person event in over two years. And even though, like you said, is on the smaller scale, roughly around 1000 attendees, versus it's usual eight to 10,000 attendees. There's so much energy, and excitement, and openness in these events and sessions. Even before and after the sessions people have been mingling and socializing and hanging out. So, I think a lot of people appreciate these in-person events and are really excited to be here. >> Cool. So, you also sat in some of the keynotes, right? Pretty technical, right? Which is kind of new to sort of your genre, right? I mean, I know you got a financial background but, so what'd you think of the keynotes? What'd you think of the format, the theater in the round? Any impressions of that? >> So, I think there's three things that are really consistent in these Red Hat Summit keynotes. There's always a history lesson. There's always, you know, emphasis in the culture of openness. And, there's also inspirational stories about how people utilize open source. And I found a lot of those examples really compelling and interesting. For instance, people use open source in (indistinct), and even in space. So I really enjoyed, you know, learning about all these different people and stories. What about you guys? What do you think were the big takeaways and the best stories that came out of the keynotes? >> Paul, want to start? >> Clearly the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 9 is a major rollout. They do that only about every three years. So that's a big deal to this audience. I think what they did in the area of security, with rolling out sigstore, which is a major new, I think an important new project that was sort of incubated at Red Hat. And they're trying to put in to create an open source ecosystem around that now. And the alliances. I'm usually not that much on partnerships, but the Accenture and the Microsoft partnerships do seem to be significant to the company. And, finally, the GM partnership which I think was maybe kind of the bombshell that they sort of rushed in at the last minute. But I think has the biggest potential impact on Red Hat and its partner ecosystem that is really going to anchor their edge architecture going forward. So I didn't see it so much on the product front, but the sense of Red Hat spreading its wings, and partnering with more companies, and seeing its itself as really the center of an ecosystem indicates that they are, you know, they're in a very solid position in their business. >> Yeah, and also like the pandemic has really forced us into this new normal, right? So customer demand is changing. There has been the shift to remote. There's always going to be a new normal according to Paul, and open source carries us through that. So how do you guys think Red Hat has helped its portfolio through this new normal and the shift? >> I mean, when you think of Red Hat, you think of Linux. I mean, that's where it all started. You think OpenShift which is the application development platforms. Linux is the OS. OpenShift is the application development platform for Kubernetes. And then of course, Ansible is the automation framework. And I agree with you, ecosystem is really the other piece of this. So, I mean, I think you take those three pieces and extend that into the open source community. There's a lot of innovation that's going around each of those, but ecosystems are the key. We heard from Stefanie Chiras, that fundamental, I mean, you can't do this without those gap fillers and those partnerships. And then another thing that's notable here is, you know, this was, I mean, IBM was just another brand, right? I mean, if anything it was probably a sub-brand, I mean, you didn't hear much about IBM. You certainly had no IBM presence, even though they're right across the street running Think. No Arvind present, no keynote from Arvind, no, you know, Big Blue washing. And so, I think that's a testament to Arvind himself. We heard that from Paul Cormier, he said, hey, this guy's been great, he's left us alone. And he's allowed us to continue innovating. It's good news. IBM has not polluted Red Hat. >> Yes, I think that the Red Hat was, I said at the opening, I think Red Hat is kind of the tail wagging the dog right now. And their position seems very solid in the market. Clearly the market has come to them in terms of their evangelism of open source. They've remained true to their business model. And I think that gives them credibility that, you know, a lot of other open source companies have lacked. They have stuck with the plan for over 20 years now and have really not changed it, and it's paying off. I think they're emerging as a company that you can trust to do business with. >> Now I want to throw in something else here. I thought the conversation with IDC analyst, Jim Mercer, was interesting when he said that they surveyed customers and they wanted to get the security from their platform vendor, versus having to buy these bespoke tools. And it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think that's going to happen, right? Because you're going to have an identity specialist. You're going to have an endpoint specialist. You're going to have a threat detection specialist. And they're going to be best of breed, you know, Red Hat's never going to be all of those things. What they can do is partner with those companies through APIs, through open source integrations, they can add them in as part of the ecosystem and maybe be the steward of that. Maybe that's the answer. They're never going to be the best at all those different security disciplines. There's no way in the world, Red Hat, that's going to happen. But they could be the integration point. And that would be, that would be a simplifying layer to the equation. >> And I think it's smart. You know, they're not pretending to be an identity in access management or an anti-malware company, or even a zero trust company. They are sticking to their knitting, which is operating system and developers. Evangelizing DevSecOps, which is a good thing. And, that's what they're going to do. You know, you have to admire this company. It has never gotten outside of its swim lane. I think it's understood well really what it wants to be good at. And, you know, in the software business knowing what not to do is more important than knowing what to do. Is companies that fail are usually the ones that get overextended, this company has never overextended itself. >> What else do you want to know? >> And a term that kept popping up was multicloud, or otherwise known as metacloud. We know what the cloud is, but- >> Oh, supercloud, metacloud. >> Supercloud, yeah, here we go. We know what the cloud is but, what does metacloud mean to you guys? And why has it been so popular in these conversations? >> I'm going to boot this to Dave, because he's the expert on this. >> Well, expert or not, but I mean, again, we've coined this term supercloud. And the idea behind the supercloud or what Ashesh called metacloud, I like his name, cause it allows Web 3.0 to come into the equation. But the idea is that instead of building on each individual cloud and have compatibility with that cloud, you build a layer across clouds. So you do the hard work as a platform supplier to hide the underlying primitives and APIs from the end customer, or the end developer, they can then add value on top of that. And that abstraction layer spans on-prem, clouds, across clouds, ultimately out to the edge. And it's new, a new value layer that builds on top of the hyperscale infrastructure, or existing data center infrastructure, or emerging edge infrastructure. And the reason why that is important is because it's so damn complicated, number one. Number two, every company's becoming a software company, a technology company. They're bringing their services through digital transformation to their customers. And you've got to have a cloud to do that. You're not going to build your own data center. That's like Charles Wang says, not Charles Wang. (Paul laughing) Charles Phillips. We were just talking about CA. Charles Phillips. Friends don't let friends build data centers. So that supercloud concept, or what Ashesh calls metacloud, is this new layer that's going to be powered by ecosystems and platform companies. And I think it's real. I think it's- >> And OpenShift, OpenShift is a great, you know, key card for them or leverage for them because it is perhaps the best known Kubernetes platform. And you can see here they're really doubling down on adding features to OpenShift, security features, scalability. And they see it as potentially this metacloud, this supercloud abstraction layer. >> And what we said is, in order to have a supercloud you got to have a superpaz layer and OpenShift is that superpaz layer. >> So you had conversations with a lot of people within the past two days. Some people include companies, from Verizon, Intel, Accenture. Which conversation stood out to you the most? >> Which, I'm sorry. >> Which conversation stood out to you the most? (Paul sighs) >> The conversation with Stu Miniman was pretty interesting because we talked about culture. And really, he has a lot of credibility in that area because he's not a Red Hat. You know, he hasn't been a Red Hat forever, he's fairly new to the company. And got a sense from him that the culture there really is what they say it is. It's a culture of openness and that's, you know, that's as important as technology for a company's success. >> I mean, this was really good content. I mean, there were a lot, I mean Stefanie's awesome. Stefanie Chiras, we're talking about the ecosystem. Chris Wright, you know, digging into some of the CTO stuff. Ashesh, who coined metacloud, I love that. The whole in vehicle operating system conversation was great. The security discussion that we just had. You know, the conversations with Accenture were super thoughtful. Of course, Paul Cormier was a highlight. I think that one's going to be a well viewed interview, for sure. And, you know, I think that the customer conversations are great. Red Hat did a really good job of carrying the keynote conversations, which were abbreviated this year, to theCUBE. >> Right. >> I give 'em a lot of kudos for that. And because, theCUBE, it allows us to double click, go deeper, peel the onion a little bit, you know, all the buzz words, and cliches. But it's true. You get to clarify some of the things you heard, which were, you know, the keynotes were, were scripted, but tight. And so we had some good follow up questions. I thought it was super useful. I know I'm leaving somebody out, but- >> We're also able to interview representatives from Intel and Nvidia, which at a software conference you don't typically do. I mean, there's the assimilation, the combination of hardware and software. It's very clear that, and this came out in the keynote, that Red Hat sees hardware as matter. It matters. It's important again. And it's going to be a source of innovation in the future. That came through clearly. >> Yeah. The hardware matters theme, you know, the old days you would have an operating system and the hardware were intrinsically linked. MVS in the mainframe, VAX, VMS in the digital mini computers. DG had its own operating system. Wang had his own operating system. Prime with Prime OS. You remember these days? >> Oh my God. >> Right? (Paul laughs) And then of course Microsoft. >> And then x86, everything got abstracted. >> Right. >> Everything became x86 and now it's all atomizing again. >> Although WinTel, right? I mean, MS-DOS and Windows were intrinsically linked for many, many years with Intel x86. And it wasn't until, you know, well, and then, you know, Sun Solaris, but it wasn't until Linux kind of blew that apart. And the internet is built on the lamp stack. And of course, Linux is the fundamental foundation for Red Hat. So my point is, that the operating system and the hardware have always been very closely tied together. Whether it's security, or IO, or registries and memory management, everything controlled by the OS are very close to the hardware. And so that's why I think you've got an affinity in Red Hat to hardware. >> But Linux is breaking that bond, don't you think? >> Yes, but it still has to understand the underlying hardware. >> Right. >> You heard today, how taking advantage of Nvidia, and the AI capabilities. You're seeing that with ARM, you're seeing that with Intel. How you can optimize the operating system to take advantage of new generations of CPU, and NPU, and CPU, and PU, XPU, you know, across the board. >> Yep. >> Well, I really enjoyed this conference and it really stressed how important open source is to a lot of different industries. >> Great. Well, thanks for coming on. Paul, thank you. Great co-hosting with you. And thank you. >> Always, Dave. >> For watching theCUBE. We'll be on the road, next week we're at KubeCon in Valencia, Spain. We're at VeeamON. We got a ton of stuff going on. Check out thecube.net. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. Wikibon.com. We publish there weekly, our breaking analysis series. Thanks for watching everybody. Dave Vellante, for Paul Gillin, and Stephanie Chan. Thanks to the crew. Shout out, Andrew, Alex, Sonya. Amazing job, Sonya. Steven, thanks you guys for coming out here. Mark, good job corresponding. Go to SiliconANGLE, Mark's written some great stuff. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (calm music)

>> From "theCUBE" studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from "theCUBE" and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> There are very few political issues that get bipartisan support these days, nevermind consensus spanning geopolitical boundaries. But whether we're talking across the aisle or over the pond, there seems to be common agreement that the power of big tech firms should be regulated. But the government's track record when it comes to antitrust aimed at big tech is actually really mixed, mixed at best. History has shown that market forces rather than public policy have been much more effective at curbing monopoly power in the technology industry. Hello, and welcome to this week's "Wikibon CUBE" insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis" we welcome in frequent "CUBE" contributor Dave Moschella, author and senior fellow at the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation. Dave, welcome, good to see you again. >> Hey, thanks Dave, good to be here. >> So you just recently published an article, we're going to bring it up here and I'll read the title, "Theory Aside, Antitrust Advocates Should Keep Their "Big Tech" Ambitions Narrow". And in this post you argue that big sweeping changes like breaking apart companies to moderate monopoly power in the tech industry have been ineffective compared to market forces, but you're not saying government shouldn't be involved rather you're suggesting that more targeted measures combined with market forces are the right answer. Can you maybe explain a little bit more the premise behind your research and some of your conclusions? >> Sure, and first let's go back to that title, when I said, theory aside, that is referring to a huge debate that's going on in global antitrust circles these days about whether antitrust should follow the traditional path of being invoked when there's real harm, demonstrable harm to consumers or a new theory that says that any sort of vast monopoly power inevitably will be bad for competition and consumers at some point, so your best to intervene now to avoid harms later. And that school, which was a very minor part of the antitrust world for many, many years is now quite ascendant and the debate goes on doesn't matter which side of that you're on the questions sort of there well, all right, well, if you're going to do something to take on big tech and clearly many politicians, regulators are sort of issuing to do something, what would you actually do? And what are the odds that that'll do more good than harm? And that was really the origins of the piece and trying to take a historical view of that. >> Yeah, I learned a new word, thank you. Neo-brandzian had to look it up, but basically you're saying that traditionally it was proving consumer harm versus being proactive about the possibility or likelihood of consumer harm. >> Correct, and that's a really big shift that a lot of traditional antitrust people strongly object to, but is now sort of the trendy and more send and view. >> Got it, okay, let's look a little deeper into the history of tech monopolies and government action and see what we can learn from that. We put together this slide that we can reference. It shows the three historical targets in the tech business and now the new ones. In 1969, the DOJ went after IBM, Big Blue and it's 13 years later, dropped its suit. And then in 1984 the government broke Ma Bell apart and in the late 1990s, went after Microsoft, I think it was 1998 in the Wintel monopoly. And recently in an interview with tech journalist, Kara Swisher, the FTC chair Lena Khan claimed that the government played a major role in moderating the power of tech giants historically. And I think she even specifically referenced Microsoft or maybe Kara did and basically said the industry and consumers from the dominance of companies like Microsoft. So Dave, let's briefly talk about and Kara by the way, didn't really challenge that, she kind of let it slide. But let's talk about each of these and test this concept a bit. Were the government actions in these instances necessary? What were the outcomes and the consequences? Maybe you could start with IBM and AT&T. >> Yeah, it's a big topic and there's a lot there and a lot of history, but I might just sort of introduce by saying for whatever reasons antitrust has been part of the entire information technology industry history from mainframe to the current period and that slide sort of gives you that. And the reasons for that are I think once that we sort of know the economies of scale, network effects, lock in safe choices, lot of things that explain it, but the good bit about that is we actually have so much history of this and we can at least see what's happened in the past and when you look at IBM and AT&T they both were massive antitrust cases. The one against IBM was dropped and it was dropped in as you say, in 1980. Well, what was going on in at that time, IBM was sort of considered invincible and unbeatable, but it was 1981 that the personal computer came around and within just a couple of years the world could see that the computing paradigm had change from main frames and minis to PCs lines client server and what have you. So IBM in just a couple of years went from being unbeatable, you can't compete with them, we have to break up with them to being incredibly vulnerable and in trouble and never fully recovered and is sort of a shell of what it once was. And so the market took care of that and no action was really necessary just by everybody thinking there was. The case of AT&T, they did act and they broke up the company and I would say, first question is, was that necessary? Well, lots of countries didn't do that and the reality is 1980 breaking it up into long distance and regional may have made some sense, but by the 1990 it was pretty clear that the telecom world was going to change dramatically from long distance and fixed wires services to internet services, data services, wireless services and all of these things that we're going to restructure the industry anyways. But AT& T one to me is very interesting because of the unintended consequences. And I would say that the main unintended consequence of that was America's competitiveness in telecommunications took a huge hit. And today, to this day telecommunications is dominated by European, Chinese and other firms. And the big American sort of players of the time AT&T which Western Electric became Lucent, Lucent is now owned by Nokia and is really out of it completely and most notably and compellingly Bell Labs, the Bell Labs once the world's most prominent research institution now also a shell of itself and as it was part of Lucent is also now owned by the Finnish company Nokia. So that restructuring greatly damaged America's core strength in telecommunications hardware and research and one can argue we've never recovered right through this 5IG today. So it's a very good example of the market taking care of, the big problem, but meddling leading to some unintended consequences that have hurt the American competitiveness and as we'll talk about, probably later, you can see some of that going on again today and in the past with Microsoft and Intel. >> Right, yeah, Bell Labs was an American gem, kind of like Xerox PARC and basically gone now. You mentioned Intel and Microsoft, Microsoft and Intel. As many people know, some young people don't, IBM unwillingly handed its monopoly to Intel and Microsoft by outsourcing the micro processor and operating system, respectively. Those two companies ended up with IBM ironically, agreeing to take OS2 which was its proprietary operating system and giving Intel, Microsoft Windows not realizing that its ability to dominate a new disruptive market like PCs and operating systems had been vaporized to your earlier point by the new Wintel ecosystem. Now Dave, the government wanted to break Microsoft apart and split its OS business from its application software, in the case of Intel, Intel only had one business. You pointed out microprocessors so it couldn't bust it up, but take us through the history here and the consequences of each. >> Well, the Microsoft one is sort of a classic because the antitrust case which was raging in the sort of mid nineties and 1998 when it finally ended, those were the very, once again, everybody said, Bill Gates was unstoppable, no one could compete with Microsoft they'd buy them, destroy them, predatory pricing, whatever they were accusing of the attacks on Netscape all these sort of things. But those the very years where it was becoming clear first that Microsoft basically missed the early big years of the internet and then again, later missed all the early years of the mobile phone business going back to BlackBerrys and pilots and all those sorts of things. So here we are the government making the case that this company is unstoppable and you can't compete with them the very moment they're entirely on the defensive. And therefore wasn't surprising that that suit eventually was dropped with some minor concessions about Microsoft making it a little bit easier for third parties to work with them and treating people a little bit more, even handling perfectly good things that they did. But again, the more market took care of the problem far more than the antitrust activities did. The Intel one is also interesting cause it's sort of like the AT& T one. On the one hand antitrust actions made Intel much more likely and in fact, required to work with AMD enough to keep that company in business and having AMD lowered prices for consumers certainly probably sped up innovation in the personal computer business and appeared to have a lot of benefits for those early years. But when you look at it from a longer point of view and particularly when look at it again from a global point of view you see that, wow, they not so clear because that very presence of AMD meant that there's a lot more pressure on Intel in terms of its pricing, its profitability, its flexibility and its volumes. All the things that have made it harder for them to A, compete with chips made in Taiwan, let alone build them in the United States and therefore that long term effect of essentially requiring Intel to allow AMD to exist has undermined Intel's position globally and arguably has undermined America's position in the long run. And certainly Intel today is far more vulnerable to an ARM and Invidia to other specialized chips to China, to Taiwan all of these things are going on out there, they're less capable of resisting that than they would've been otherwise. So, you thought we had some real benefits with AMD and lower prices for consumers, but the long term unintended consequences are arguably pretty bad. >> Yeah, that's why we recently wrote in Intel two "Strategic To Fail", we'll see, Okay. now we come to 2022 and there are five companies with anti-trust targets on their backs. Although Microsoft seems to be the least susceptible to US government ironically intervention at this this point, but maybe not and we show "The Cincos Comas Club" in a homage to Russ Hanneman of the show "Silicon Valley" Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Amazon all with trillion dollar plus valuations. But meta briefly crossed that threshold like Mr. Hanneman lost a comma and is now well under that market cap probably around five or 600 million, sorry, billion. But under serious fire nonetheless Dave, people often don't realize the immense monopoly power that IBM had which relatively speaking when measured its percent of industry revenue or profit dwarf that of any company in tech ever, but the industry is much smaller then, no internet, no cloud. Does it call for a different approach this time around? How should we think about these five companies their market power, the implications of government action and maybe what you suggested more narrow action versus broad sweeping changes. >> Yeah, and there's a lot there. I mean, if you go back to the old days IBM had what, 70% of the computer business globally and AT&T had 90% or so of the American telecom market. So market shares that today's players can only dream of. Intel and Microsoft had 90% of the personal computer market. And then you look at today the big five and as wealthy and as incredibly successful as they've been, you sort of have almost the argument that's wrong on the face of it. How can five companies all of which compete with each other to at least some degree, how can they all be monopolies? And the reality is they're not monopolies, they're all oligopolies that are very powerful firms, but none of them have an outright monopoly on anything. There are competitors in all the spaces that they're in and increasing and probably increasingly so. And so, yeah, I think people conflate the extraordinary success of the companies with this belief that therefore they are monopolist and I think they're far less so than those in the past. >> Great, all right, I want to do a quick drill down to cloud computing, it's a key component of digital business infrastructure in his book, "Seeing Digital", Dave Moschella coined a term the matrix or the key which is really referred to the key technology platforms on which people are going to build digital businesses. Dave, we joke you should have called it the metaverse you were way ahead of your time. But I want to look at this ETR chart, we show spending momentum or net score on the vertical access market share or pervasiveness in the dataset on the horizontal axis. We show this view a lot, we put a dotted line at the 40% mark which indicates highly elevated spending. And you can sort of see Microsoft in the upper right, it's so far up to the right it's hidden behind the January 22 and AWS is right there. Those two dominate the cloud far ahead of the pack including Google Cloud. Microsoft and to a lesser extent AWS they dominate in a lot of other businesses, productivity, collaboration, database, security, video conferencing. MarTech with LinkedIn PC software et cetera, et cetera, Googles or alphabets of business of course is ads and we don't have similar spending data on Apple and Facebook, but we know these companies dominate their respective business. But just to give you a sense of the magnitude of these companies, here's some financial data that's worth looking at briefly. The table ranks companies by market cap in trillions that's the second column and everyone in the club, but meta and each has revenue well over a hundred billion dollars, Amazon approaching half a trillion dollars in revenue. The operating income and cash positions are just mind boggling and the cash equivalents are comparable or well above the revenues of highly successful tech companies like Cisco, Dell, HPE, Oracle, and Salesforce. They're extremely profitable from an operating income standpoint with the clear exception of Amazon and we'll come back to that in a moment and we show the revenue multiples in the last column, Apple, Microsoft, and Google, just insane. Dave, there are other equally important metrics, CapX is one which kind of sets the stage for future scale and there are other measures. >> Yeah, including our research and development where those companies are spending hundreds of billions of dollars over the years. And I think it's easy to look at those numbers and just say, this doesn't seem right, how can any companies have so much and spend so much? But if you think of what they're actually doing, those companies are building out the digital infrastructure of essentially the entire world. And I remember once meeting some folks at Google, and they said, beyond AI, beyond Search, beyond Android, beyond all the specific things we do, the biggest thing we're actually doing is building a physical infrastructure that can deliver search results on any topic in microseconds and the physical capacity they built costs those sorts of money. And when people start saying, well, we should have lots and lots of smaller companies well, that sounds good, yeah, it's all right, but where are those companies going to get the money to build out what needs to be built out? And every country in the world is trying to build out its digital infrastructure and some are going to do it much better than others. >> I want to just come back to that chart on Amazon for a bit, notice their comparatively tiny operating profit as a percentage of revenue, Amazon is like Bezos giant lifestyle business, it's really never been that profitable like most retail. However, there's one other financial data point around Amazon's business that we want to share and this chart here shows Amazon's operating profit in the blue bars and AWS's in the orange. And the gray line is the percentage of Amazon's overall operating profit that comes from AWS. That's the right most access, so last quarter we were well over a hundred percent underscoring the power of AWS and the horrendous margins in retail. But AWS is essentially funding Amazon's entrance into new markets, whether it's grocery or movies, Bezos moves into space. Dave, a while back you collaborated with us and we asked our audience, what could disrupt Amazon? And we came up with your detailed help, a number of scenarios as shown here. And we asked the audience to rate the likelihood of each scenario in terms of its likelihood of disrupting Amazon with a 10 being highly likely on average the score was six with complacency, arrogance, blindness, you know, self-inflicted wounds really taking the top spot with 6.5. So Dave is breaking up Amazon the right formula in your view, why or why not? >> Yeah, there's a couple of things there. The first is sort of the irony that when people in the sort of regulatory world talk about the power of Amazon, they almost always talk about their power in consumer markets, whether it's books or retail or impact on malls or main street shops or whatever and as you say that they make very little money doing that. The interest people almost never look at the big cloud battle between Amazon, Microsoft and lesser extent Google, Alibaba others, even though that's where they're by far highest market share and pricing power and all those things are. So the regulatory focus is sort of weird, but you know, the consumer stuff obviously gets more appeal to the general public. But that survey you referred to me was interesting because one of the challenges I sort of sent myself I was like okay, well, if I'm going to say that IBM case, AT&T case, Microsoft's case in all those situations the market was the one that actually minimized the power of those firms and therefore the antitrust stuff wasn't really necessary. Well, how true is that going to be again, just cause it's been true in the past doesn't mean it's true now. So what are the possible scenarios over the 2020s that might make it all happen again? And so each of those were sort of questions that we put out to others, but the ones that to me by far are the most likely I mean, they have the traditional one of company cultures sort of getting fat and happy and all, that's always the case, but the more specific ones, first of all by far I think is China. You know, Amazon retail is a low margin business. It would be vulnerable if it didn't have the cloud profits behind it, but imagine a year from now two years from now trade tensions with China get worse and Christmas comes along and China just says, well, you know, American consumers if you want that new exercise bike or that new shoes or clothing, well, anything that we make well, actually that's not available on Amazon right now, but you can get that from Alibaba. And maybe in America that's a little more farfetched, but in many countries all over the world it's not farfetched at all. And so the retail divisions vulnerability to China just seems pretty obvious. Another possible disruption, Amazon has spent billions and billions with their warehouses and their robots and their automated inventory systems and all the efficiencies that they've done there, but you could argue that maybe someday that's not really necessary that you have Search which finds where a good is made and a logistical system that picks that up and delivers it to customers and why do you need all those warehouses anyways? So those are probably the two top one, but there are others. I mean, a lot of retailers as they get stronger online, maybe they start pulling back some of the premium products from Amazon and Amazon takes their cut of whatever 30% or so people might want to keep more of that in house. You see some of that going on today. So the idea that the Amazon is in vulnerable disruption is probably is wrong and as part of the work that I'm doing, as part of stuff that I do with Dave and SiliconANGLE is how's that true for the others too? What are the scenarios for Google or Apple or Microsoft and the scenarios are all there. And so, will these companies be disrupted as they have in the past? Well, you can't say for sure, but the scenarios are certainly plausible and I certainly wouldn't bet against it and that's what history tells us. And it could easily happen once again and therefore, the antitrust should at least be cautionary and humble and realize that maybe they don't need to act as much as they think. >> Yeah, now, one of the things that you mentioned in your piece was felt like narrow remedies, were more logical. So you're not arguing for totally Les Affaire you're pushing for remedies that are more targeted in scope. And while the EU just yesterday announced new rules to limit the power of tech companies and we showed the article, some comments here the regulators they took the social media to announce a victory and they had a press conference. I know you watched that it was sort of a back slapping fest. The comments however, that we've sort of listed here are mixed, some people applauded, but we saw many comments that were, hey, this is a horrible idea, this was rushed together. And these are going to result as you say in unintended consequences, but this is serious stuff they're talking about applying would appear to be to your point or your prescription more narrowly defined restrictions although a lot of them to any company with a market cap of more than 75 billion Euro or turnover of more than 77.5 billion Euro which is a lot of companies and imposing huge penalties for violations up to 20% of annual revenue for repeat offenders, wow. So again, you've taken a brief look at these developments, you watched the press conference, what do you make of this? This is an application of more narrow restrictions, but in your quick assessment did they get it right? >> Yeah, let's break that down a little bit, start a little bit of history again and then get to Europe because although big sweeping breakups of the type that were proposed for IBM, Microsoft and all weren't necessary that doesn't mean that the government didn't do some useful things because they did. In the case of IBM government forces in Europe and America basically required IBM to make it easier for companies to make peripherals type drives, disc drives, printers that worked with IBM mainframes. They made them un-bundle their software pricing that made it easier for database companies and others to sell their of products. With AT&T it was the government that required AT&T to actually allow other phones to connect to the network, something they argued at the time would destroy security or whatever that it was the government that required them to allow MCI the long distance carrier to connect to the AT network for local deliveries. And with that Microsoft and Intel the government required them to at least treat their suppliers more even handly in terms of pricing and policies and support and such things. So the lessons out there is the big stuff wasn't really necessary, but the little stuff actually helped a lot and I think you can see the scenarios and argue in the piece that there's little stuff that can be done today in all the cases for the big five, there are things that you might want to consider the companies aren't saints they take advantage of their power, they use it in ways that sometimes can be reigned in and make for better off overall. And so that's how it brings us to the European piece of it. And to me, the European piece is much more the bad scenario of doing too much than the wiser course of trying to be narrow and specific. What they've basically done is they have a whole long list of narrow things that they're all trying to do at once. So they want Amazon not to be able to share data about its selling partners and they want Apple to open up their app store and they don't want people Google to be able to share data across its different services, Android, Search, Mail or whatever. And they don't want Facebook to be able to, they want to force Facebook to open up to other messaging services. And they want to do all these things for all the big companies all of which are American, and they want to do all that starting next year. And to me that looks like a scenario of a lot of difficult problems done quickly all of which might have some value if done really, really well, but all of which have all kinds of risks for the unintended consequence we've talked before and therefore they seem to me being too much too soon and the sort of problems we've seen in the past and frankly to really say that, I mean, the Europeans would never have done this to the companies if they're European firms, they're doing this because they're all American firms and the sort of frustration of Americans dominance of the European tech industry has always been there going back to IBM, Microsoft, Intel, and all of them. But it's particularly strong now because the tech business is so big. And so I think the politics of this at a time where we're supposedly all this great unity of America and NATO and Europe in regards to Ukraine, having the Europeans essentially go after the most important American industry brings in the geopolitics in I think an unavoidable way. And I would think the story is going to get pretty tense over the next year or so and as you say, the Europeans think that they're taking massive actions, they think they're doing the right thing. They think this is the natural follow on to the GDPR stuff and even a bigger version of that and they think they have more to come and they see themselves as the people taming big tech not just within Europe, but for the world and absent any other rules that they may pull that off. I mean, GDPR has indeed spread despite all of its flaws. So the European thing which it doesn't necessarily get huge attention here in America is certainly getting attention around the world and I would think it would get more, even more going forward. >> And the caution there is US public policy makers, maybe they can provide, they will provide a tailwind maybe it's a blind spot for them and it could be a template like you say, just like GDPR. Okay, Dave, we got to leave it there. Thanks for coming on the program today, always appreciate your insight and your views, thank you. >> Hey, thanks a lot, Dave. >> All right, don't forget these episodes are all available as podcast, wherever you listen. All you got to do is search, "Breaking Analysis Podcast". Check out ETR website, etr.ai. We publish every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. And you can email me david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @davevellante. Comment on my LinkedIn post. This is Dave Vellante for Dave Michelle for "theCUBE Insights" powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well and we'll see you next time. (slow tempo music)

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen Brought to you by Amazon Web services. >> Thiss really is huge, >> isn't it? David >> London is my co star today on the Cube. We're going to be extracting the signal from the noise and there is a lot of noise. Just trying to register. Here was an event in itself, and one guy in the queue with me earlier said, You know, this is like an army of young technologist backing one particular platform, and we've had the main keynote speeches already in the conference hall. There are breakout sessions going on as well as we speak. And in those keynote speeches, it really wants the focus again on Hey I and machine learning and a huge array of services that eight of us now provide. Because, of course, every tech company, every company is a tech company these days. Where do you work in transportation or defense or retail? Let's talk >> about Dave a little bit about a ws and the exponential growth that it's seen over the past two years because it just keeps on getting bigger and you could see testament really out there just so many people here. >> You know, Susannah, when a WS announced its first service in two thousand six, very quietly announced E C, too, which is a computer service. Nobody really paid much attention. But a devious has permanently changed the landscape of the of the technology business. And we're here in London twelve thousand people at a one day summit. I mean, that's his large as many or or larger than most U. S based three day conferences. >> And there are many thousands more watching the life streaming as well, >> right? And when you talk to the people here, they're a division. First of them has builders, and it was interesting to hear some of the key knows this morning talking about some of the innovations that occurred in the UK he obviously UK, very prideful country. The first lights in electric lights work the Savoy Theatre, the Colossus, you know, Code breaker and many, many others. Home computing originated in the UK It so a diverse are connecting that invention and that what they call reinvention. Eight of us talks about his differentiation. The number of regions that it has around the world believe they said twenty one regions, sixty for availability zones, which are little, many regions inside of the regions. In case there's a problem, you can fail over fourteen database services. You know what's happening is all the traditional tea, which is eighty percent of the market place, trying to sort of hang on to their legacy install basis. So they're trying to substantially mimic eight of us. The problem is, eight of us moves faster, has more services, and it's just growing at such a phenomenal rate. >> And it's really kind of bottom up. A CZ. Well, it's so got that head start. So it's learning from its current customers and those it's had in the past, really to find out what new services they want that has his wealth of data ofthe gods to build on it, doesn't it? So every it seems every month it's it's another step ahead. >> Well, the data is critical. Amazon. Is it a dogfight? I always say, for your data with Google and Microsoft and Oracle, they all want your data. Why? Because data is the most valuable resource today, right? People talk about data is the new oil. We think data is more valuable than oil. You could put oil in your car. You can put in your house, but you can't put it in. Both data is reusable in a way that we've never seen a natural resource before. So it's extremely powerful applying machine intelligence to data. So Amazon knows if it can get your data into the cloud and do so cost effectively and deliver services that make you happy and delight you that they have a perpetual business model that's really unbeatable. The company now is at a thirty billion dollars run rate, growing at a constant currency rate of forty two percent per year. No people will say, Well, well, Microsoft is going faster. Microsoft is growing at seventy two percent here, but it's a much, much smaller base we're talking about single digit, a few billion versus thirty billion. So Amazon each year is growing at a nine to ten billion dollars incremental rate. Even more importantly, the operating income is phenomenal. I mean, a WS is only twelve percent of Amazon's revenue, but it accounts for fifty percent of its operating income. Hey, Ws is operating income is is in the high twenties, twenty eight twenty nine percent higher than Cisco, higher than AMC when it when he had seen was a public company. And those air very profitable companies the only companies that are more profitable on a percentage basis that that Amazon a pure place, software companies like an oracle. So Amazon, who's an infrastructure company, is as profitable almost as a software company. It's astounding, >> really interesting to see some of the partners that were invited on. It's about the keynote speeches. For example, Saint spreads so real traditional retailer at a prompter state that they'd be in the business for one hundred fifty years and some would say in many ways a competitive toe. Amazon at marketplace because they sell a vast array of goods and services to the customers. But they talked about how they're using around eighty eight WS services. It's always like a kind of a pic, a mix sweet shop. Or, as you would say, a candy store isn't and I think that's that's some of the benefits that some customers view for A W. S. Some would say, actually, I would prefer all of my product be in one place or the car that access and services in one place. And so is this pick a mix idea that I think really is taking off, isn't it? >> I'm glad you brought up the state's very example because, essentially, in a way, they are in adjacent competitors Teo, eight, of us. And yet they've chosen to put their data. And there's in leverage Amazon services. It's like Netflix. Everybody uses Netflix as the example. I mean, they compete vigorously with with Amazon Prime Video, and yet they choose to run in the age of U. S code. Now this is one of the areas where you heard at the Google Cloud next show a lot of talk about retail companies, you know, considering using Google, because, of course, they're concerned about Amazon eating their lunch. And so it's a hard decision for retail companies to make. Sainsbury obviously has said OK, we can compete. We have a unique advantage with Amazon retail, you know, but it's something worth watching for sure, because, you know, Walmart obviously doesn't wantto run in the eight of us Cloud because it's it's fearful. Ah, at the same time, Amazon would tell you, Auntie Jessie offenses look. There's a brick wall between eight of us and the retail side. We don't share data, so it's just a matter of that. Trade off is the risk of running in a ws er and potentially running at a competitors sight worth the extra value that you get out of the services. And that's what the market has to decide, >> yet certainly does interesting as well. We had the Department of Justice on the UK Department of Justice because they're has beans real concerned about security, about putting all your eggs in one basket effectively put a your data into a club no operated by you. And it does, though seem is, though little by little, some of those security fears are being laid up. Play >> well, there was this. The seminal moment in a WS. His history was in two thousand thirteen, when it won the CIA CIA contract who was more security conscious than the CIA. And they beat Big Blue IBM for that contract way back in two thousand thirteen, and the analysis that came out of that because IBM contested that contract. What came out of that was information that suggested that eight of us said the far superior solution forced IBM to go spend two billion dollars on a company called Software to actually get into the public Cloud does. It couldn't really compete with its own sets of services, and since that, Amazon has only accelerated its lead. IBM, of course, has a public cloud, and it's competitive in its own right. But the point is that the CIA determined that security the cloud was better than it could do on Prem. Now you're seeing the big battle for the Jet I contract Joint Enterprise Defensive Initiative. It's the biggest story in DC Amazon is the front runner. It's down the Amazon and Microsoft. Not surprisingly, Oracle has contested that because the government uses these sources from multiple suppliers and there's contesting it, saying, Hey, that's not fair to use one cloud. When a vendor contests Abid, a lot of information comes out. The General Accountability Office and the D. O. D determined that a single cloud was more secure, more reliable, more cost effective and less complex to run. So this is big debate around multi cloud versus single cloud. And again, Amazon continues to lead in the marketplace and in many many instances, is winning >> on DH. There were a few comments made in certainly one of the key notes today, trying to kind of blow the competition out of the water again knows whether a few specific references, in fact, to Oracle and Microsoft >> were right. And so they called the database freedom they had hashtag database freedom again. As they say, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Amazon, they're in a fight for your data. That's why Oracle has launched fourteen database services. Now it's not trivial. So Sainsbury and the Ministry of Justice both talked about moving Oracle databases into the eight of us Cloud. It's not trivial. It's much easier for data warehouse and stateless applications for online transaction processing. Things like banking much, much more difficult to migrate into the clouds. So it's interesting. Sainsbury talked about racquets stands for a really application close. There's a very high end, complicated Oracle database that they migrated to Aurora. The Ministry of Justice talked about moving Oracle in tow. RGS, this is a battle I tweeted today earlier, Susana, you pick up the Wall Street Journal is a quarter page ad on the front page. Cut your Amazon bill in half now, of course, what? Oracle doesn't tell you is that they date to X the price when you're running on or on Amazon versus Oracle. So they're playing pricing games. Having said that organism very good database, the best database in the industry, the most reliable. So for mission critical applications, Oracle continues to be the leader. However, Oracle, strong arms people, they'LL, they'LL raise prices, they'LL get you in a headlock and do audits. And that's what Amazon was referring today about Microsoft and Oracle will do out. It's so they position. They tried a D position Oracle as an evil company. The Oracle, of course, so way add value. We have the best database, and they're trying to add value for the customers. Build their own cloud. So it's quite a battle that's going on, and you see the instance. Creation of that battle manifest itself in the general contract. >> Absolutely interesting is well, what we heard from really both states bruise on the Ministry of Justice, really talking about the end users and how they're so different. So for public sector organizations, this isn't about making more money making profit. It's about the experience for the user. But in fact, that came up from Sainsbury's as well, making sure that the right products are with the right part of the store. And that's how a I could help them do that and efficient, usable data they currently have. >> I think every enterprise really wants to have a consumer app like experience, and very few do. I mean, we all know used these enterprise APS from large, you know, brands, and they're often times not that great. So what, you're seeing a closing of the Gap? People see what's happening with Facebook and Instagram and Whatsapp and so forth and say we should be able to have apse that run that simply and so you're seeing that gap clothes. I don't see how you could do that without some kind of public cloud infrastructure because of the massive scale that's required. It's so companies like Saintsbury are moving in that direction. Mobile has been critical for the last decade, and so that's what the consumer wants. That's what the cloud can provide. >> Is that what every consumer wants? Because increasingly, we're hearing a lot more concerned about privacy, that people not wanting to give all of her data across to private companies and do you think this could be dist sticking point ready going forward and could actually hold back the growth all they ws and its competitors >> a great point because you have a problem. Wonder problems. You have this app creep. I can tell you have dozens and dozens and dozens of app on my phone. I don't know if I trust them with the data. So having said that, one way to simplify that is to eliminate the need to do heavy lifting and patching of your infrastructure. Let us take care of that and build value up the stack by focusing re shifting your resource is on on value added services. Could it be a problem? I think no question. When Snowden came out in the U. S. People in Europe for sure. As you know, we're concerned about putting their data in the cloud that seems to have attenuated. I don't hear much about that anymore, you know. But if the NSA can come in and demand access to my data, well, that could be problematic. That's why I ws is putting so much or one reason why they're putting so much emphasis on setting up regions. It not just eight of us, Amazon and Google and Microsoft as well for many reasons. Privacy. GPR compliance on of course, Leighton. See the laws of physics? >> Absolutely. Okay, Dave Melody, thank you very much for being with me here at the age of us. That summit here >> in London at the XL Center there is still so much going on here. Lots of breakout sessions, many more kind of individual keynotes taking place with the various different subsections. Although the A W s business and also its partners. So we will be keeping across all of those on the Cube. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red hat. Some twenty nineteen lots. You buy bread >> and good morning. Welcome to Beantown, Boston, Massachusetts to Mina Mons Hometown by the police Town of residents. John Wallis was stupid from here on the Q. Bert had summit and stew for you. Good to see you here. And a home game. >> Yeah, John, Thanks so much. Nice. You know, Boston, The Cube loves Boston. The B C E C is actually where the first cube event was way back in twenty ten. And we wish there were more conferences here in Boston. Gorgeous weather here in the spring. Ah, little chilly at night with the wind coming off the water, but really good. Here is the sixth year we've had the Cube here, right? Had some in my fifth year at the show. Great energy. And, you know, thirty four billion reasons why people are spending a lot of time keeping a close eye on. Let's just know. Yeah, >> jump right in thirty four billion dollar deal. I am red hatt gotta prove by doj uh, here in the States. But there's still some hurdles that they have to get over in order for that to come to fruition, Maybe later this year. That's the expectation. But just your thoughts right now about about that synergy about that opportunity that that we think is about to have. >> Yeah, so? So right, let's get this piece out of the way. Because here at the conference, we're talking about Red Hat. The acquisition has not completed. So while the CEO of IBM you know Jenny will be up on stage tonight along with, you know, Jim White Hirsi over at Hat and Sakina della, you know, flying in from Seattle, where you might get your name yesterday. So you know, at least two of those three your Cuba Lem's. So we'LL get Jenny on one of these days. But, you know, this is a big acquisition, the largest software acquisition ever, and third largest acquisition in tech history. Now we watched the first biggest tech acquisition in history, which was Del buying AMC just a couple of years ago. And this is not the normal. Okay? Hey, we announced it and you know, it closed quietly in a few months. So as you mentioned, DOJ approved it. There's a few more government agencies Europe needs to go through. You never know what China might ask to come in here, but, you know, really, at the core if you look at it, you know, IBM and Red Hat have worked together for decades. You know, we wrote a lot about this when the announcement happened. You know, IBM is no stranger to open source. IBM is no stranger to the clinics and the areas where Red Hat has been growing and expanded too. You see, IBM, they're so communities, you know, super hot space. If you look, you know, Red hat is they're they're open shift platform, which is what Red Hat does for cloud. Native Development has over a thousand customers. They're adding between one hundred one hundred fifty a quarter is what they talk about publicly. We're gonna have some of those customers on this week. So huge area. That multi cloud hybrid cloud world absolutely is where it's at. We did four days of broadcast from IBM. Think earlier this year in San Francisco. And, you know, once again, Jim white hairs and Jenny were on stage together. They're talking about where they've been working together for a long time. and just, you know, some things will change, but from IBM standpoint, they said, Look, you know, the day after this closes, you know, Red Hat doesn't go away. That had just announced new branding, and everybody's like, Well, why are they changing their branding? You know, when you know IBM is taking over and the answer was, Look, Red Hat's going to stay as a standalone entity. IBM says they're not going to have a single lay off, not even HR consolidation, at least in the beginning. We understand, you know, give me your stuff to work out some of these pieces, but there are ears. They will work together. I look at it. John is like the core. What is the biggest piece of IBM's business is services. That Army of services, both from IBM and all of their Esai partners and everybody they worked with Khun really supercharge and help scale some of the environment that red hats doing so really interesting. Expect them to talk a little bit about it. Red hat is way more transparent than your average company. They had an analyst event like a week or two after it happened, and I was really surprised how much they would tell us and that we could talk about publicly. As I said, just cause I've seen so many acquisitions happen, including some you know, mega ones in the past. And we know how little usually you talk about until it it's done and it's signed. And, you know, the bankers and lawyers have been paid all their fees. >> Let me ask you, you raise an interesting point. Um, you know that there are some different approaches, obviously, between IBM redhead, just in terms of their institutional legacies in terms of processes. Red hat. You mentioned very transparent organization. Open source. Right. So we're all about the rebrand. They come out, you know, the drop shadow, man, They got the hat. What's that cultural mix going to be like? Can they truly run independently? Yeah, they're a big piece. So And if your IBM can you let that run on its own? >> So, John, that is the question most of us have. So, you know, I've worked with Red Hat for coming up on twenty years now, you know, Remember when Lennox was just this mess of colonel dot organ. So much changes that red hat came and gave, you know, adult supervision to help move that forward on. The thing I I wrote about is what Red Hat is really, really good at. If you look at the core, there do is managing that chaos and change on the industry. If you look how many changes happen, toe Lennox, you know every you know, day, week, month and they package all that together and they test all that same thing in Kou Burnett is the same thing in so many different spaces where that open source world is just frenetic and changing. So they're really geared for today's industry. You talk what's the only constant in our industry? John is it is changed. IBM, on the other hand, is like, you know, over one hundred years old, and I tried and true, you know, Big Blue. You know, I ibm is this, you know, the big tanker, you know, it's not like they turn on a dime and you know, rapid pace of change. You think of IBM, you think of innovation. You think of, you know, trust. You think of all the innovations that have come out over the century. Plus do there and absolutely there is a little bit of impeded mismatch there and we'LL see So if ibm Khun truly let them do their own thing and not kind of merged suit groups and take over where the inertia of a larger group can slow things down I hope it will be successful But they're definitely our concerns And time will tell we'll see But you know analytics front You know, they just announced this morning Rehl eight Red hat enterprise linen, you know, just got announced and definitely something will be spent a lot of time So >> let's just jump in a relative Look again, We're gonna hear a little bit later on. We have several folks coming on board to talk aboutthe availability. Now what? What do you see from the outside? Looking at that. What is it going to allow you or us to do that? Seven Didn't know. Where did they improve? Is that on the automation side? Is it being maybe more attentive, Teo Hybrid environment or just What is it about? Really? That makes that special? >> Yes. So you know, first of all, you know these things take a while in the nice thing about being open sources. We've had transparency. If you wanted to know it was going to be in relate. You just look in the Colonel and and it's all out there. They've been working on this since twenty thirteen. Well, seven came out back in June of twenty fourteen. This has been a number of years in the mix. You know, security. The new, like crypto policy is a big piece that that's in their thie bullets that I got when I got the pre briefing on, It was, you know, faster and easier Deploy faster on boarding for non lennox users on, you know, seamless nondestructive migration from earlier versions of rail. So that's one of the things they really want to focus on is that it needs to be predictable, and I need to be able to move from one version the other. If you look at the cloud world, you know, when you don't go asking customers say, Hey, what version of Azure a ws are you running on your running on the latest and greatest? But if you look at traditional shrink wrap software, it was well, what virginity running? Well, I'm running in minus two and Why is that? Because I have to get it. I have to test it out. And then I, you know, find a time that I'm gonna roll that out, work it in my environment. So there is stability and understanding of the release cycle. My understanding is that they're going to do major releases every three years and minor releases every six months. So that cadence a little bit more like the cloud. And as I said, getting from one version a rail to the next should be easier and more non disruptive. Ah, a lot of people are going to want manage offerings where they don't really think about this. I have the latest version because that has not just the latest features but the latest security setting, which, of course, is a major piece of my infrastructure today to make sure that if there was some vulnerability released, I can't wait, You know, six or nine months for me to bake that in there. The limits community's always good have done a good job of getting fixes into it. But how fast can I roll that out into my environment is >> something I would assume that's that's a major factor in any consideration right now is is on the security front, because every day we hear about one more problem and these are just small little issues. These these air are could be multi billion dollar problems. But in terms of making products available today, how Muchmore important? How's that security shift? If you could put a percentage on it used to be, you know, axe and now it's X plus. I mean I mean, what kind of considerations are being given? >> You know what I'd say? Used to be that security got great lip service A. Said it was usually top of mind, but often towards bottom of budget. When you talk to administrators and you say, Oh, hey, where's your last security initiative? And that, like I've had that thing sitting on my desk for the last six months and I haven't had a chance to roll that out. I will get to it, but I want to again. If you go to that cloud operating model. If you talk about you know Dev, Ops movement is, I need to bake security into the process. If I'm doing C i D. It's not, I do something and then think about security afterwards. Security needs to be built in from the ground level. A CZ. You know, I I've heard people in the industry. Security is everyone's responsibility, and security must be baked in everywhere. So from the application all the way down to the chipset, we need to be thinking about security along the bar. Mind it is a board level discussion. Any user you talk too, you know, you don't say, Hey, where's the security sitting? Your priorities. You know, it's up there towards the top, if not vey top, because that's the thing that could put us out of business or, you know, definitely ruin careers. If if it doesn't go >> right, so there are there are probably a couple of platforms, every will or pillars. I think you like to call them that. You're looking forward to learning more about this week. I think in terms of red hats work one of those green hybrid cloud infrastructure, and we'LL get to the other to a little bit. But just your thoughts about how they're addressing that with the products that they offered the services they offer and where they're going in that >> Yeah, so look everything for red at start with rail. Everything is built on Lenox, and that's a good thing, because Lennox Endeavor is everywhere. If last year is that Microsoft ignite for the first time. And when you hear them talking a Microsoft talking about how Lennox is the majority of the environment, more than fifty percent of the environment are running linen goto a ws Same thing. All the cloud deployment Lennox is the preferred substrate underneath and Rehl doing very well to live in all those environment. So what we look at is, you know, some people say, is this olynyk show. It's like, well, at the core. Lin IX is the piece of it and relate the latest and greatest substantiation. But everywhere you go, there's going to be Lennox there from doing container ization. If a building on top of it with the the new cloud native models, it's there. And if you talk about how I get from my data center to a multi cloud environment, it's building things like Cooper Netease, which read that of course, uses open shift and you know those ties to eight of us and azure and you know, Google they're all there. So we mention Santina della's on stage tonight at Microsoft build. Yesterday there was announcement of this thing called Kita ke e d A, which has, like as your functions and ties in with open shift and spend a little time squinting it, trying to tease it apart. We've got some guests this week that'LL hopefully give some clarity, but it is. The answer is people today have multiple clouds and they have a lot of different ways they want. They want to do things, and Red has going to make sure that they help bridge the gap and simplify those environments across the board. Two years ago, when we were at the show big announcement about how open shift integrates with a W s so that if I'm using a ws But I want to have things in my environment still leverage some of those services. That was something that that Red had announced. I was, you know, quite impressed a time it was, you know, just last week being at the Del Show, it's V m. Where is the del strategy for how they get you know, A W, S, G, C, P and Azure and, you know, Red Hat does that themselves. Their software company. They live in all these cloud worlds, and therefore, open shift will help you extend from your data center through all of those public cloud environments on DH, you know? Yeah. So it's fascinating >> you've talked about Lennox to we're going to hear a little bit later on to about a fascinating the global economic study, that Red Hat Commission with the I. D. C. Of that talks about this ten trillion dollar impact of Lennox around the globe like to dive into that a little bit later on. >> Yeah, well, it's interesting, you know, it's the line I used is you say, and you say, Oh, well, how much impact is Lennox had? You know? You know, Red hats now, a three billion dollar company. That's good. But I was like, Okay, let's just take Google. You know, no slots of a company. Google underneath. It's not Red Hat Lennox, but Lennox is the foundation. I don't really think that Google could become the global search and advertising powerhouse they were. If it wasn't for Lennox to be able to help them get environment, there's a CZ we always talk with these technologies. You talk about Lennox, you talk about How do you talk about, you know, Cooper Netease? There are companies that will monetize it, but the real value is what business models and creation by. You know, all the enterprise is the service riders in the hyper scales that those technologies help enable. And that's where open source really shines is, you know, the order of magnitude network effect, that open source solutions have that its you say okay, three billion dollars? And is that what ten trillion dollars? It doesn't faze me, doesn't surprise me at all, but because my attention it look it. I'm not trying to trivialize. There's no But, you know, I've been watching clinics for twenty years, and I've seen the ripples of that effect. And if you dig down underneath your often finding it inside, >> I mentioned pillars that you were talking about cloud native development being another. But automation, let's just hit on that real quick before we head off on DH just again, with how that is being, I guess, highlighted. Or that's a central focus at and relate and and what automation? How that's playing in there I guess the new efficiencies they're trying to squeeze out. >> Yes. So? So what we always looked for it shows you're probably the last year is you know, you. How are they getting beyond the buzzwords? Aye, aye. When you talk about automation on area that that we've really enjoyed digging into is like robotic process automation. How do I take something that was manual? And maybe it was a fish injure? Not great. How can I make it perfectly efficient and use software robots to do that? So where are the places where I know that the amount of change and the scale and the growth that we have that I couldn't just put somebody to keyboard, you know, and have them typing or even a dashboard to be able to monitor and keep up with things? If I don't have the automation and intelligence in the system to manage things, I can't reach the scale and the growth that I need to. So where are you know, real solutions that are helping customers, you know, get over a little bit of the fear of Oh, my gosh, I'm losing a job. Or will this work or will this keep my business running and oh, my gosh, this will actually enabled me to be able to grow work on that security issue if I need to, rather than some of the other pieces and help really allow it agility to meet the requirements of what the business requires to help me move forward. So those are some of the things we kind of look across the shows. So, you know? Yeah. How much do we get? You know, buzzword, Bingo at the show. Where How much do we hear? You know, real customers with real solutions digging in and having, you know, new technologies that a couple of years ago would have had a saying, Wow, that's magic. >> But you say, Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and I don't want gosh right back with more. You're watching to serve the cube with the red had summit. We're in Boston, Massachusetts, that we'll be back with more coverage right after this

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Mosconi North here in San Francisco. I'm student like co host David Dante. You're watching four days of live wall to wall coverage here at IBM. Think twenty nineteen. Happy to welcome back to the program first time in her new role. And she's also moved back to David, my home area of the Boston Massachusetts F area. Stephanie Sherice, who's now the vice president and general manager of Red Hat Enterprise. Lennox Business Unit. That red hat Stephanie. Thanks so much for joining. >> What's my pleasures to It's great to be back with you both. >> All right, Stephanie, be back. You know, I happen to notice quite a few IBM. Er's obviously know you. We've had you on our program and many of the IBM shows in the past. So tell us, what's it like being back at one of the Big Blue shows? >> No, it's great. It's great. As you know, I somewhat grew up at IBM might. I had seventeen years. I know so many people in the thing you miss most is in the network. So it's been it's a great opportunity to be here. Catch up with old friends, Talked to new colleagues. Great. What brought >> you to Red hat? I mean, like, you say, long career at IBM, and it was obviously prior to the acquisition, so you didn't know that was coming? What was the lore? >> So I'd say a couple of things clearly, as you know, I became a student of the Lenox Space while I was in while I was at I B M in the Power Systems unit. So fascinated for what Lennox has taught the industry about. I always say Lennox Lennox taught the world how development is meant to be done through open source in the innovation of a community. So that was a thrilling aspect for me to join. Also, I think I truly believe in the open hybrid, multi cloud strategy that Red Hat has had actually for years. Now. I think open source is all about choice and flexibility. It's what Lennox provides and moving forward their strategy around having a management portfolio, having a Cooper Netease platform all built upon being able to consume Lennox wherever and however you want it, I believe in the strategy. So it's been really exciting, and having the rail aspect is fantastic. >> So, Stephanie, you're right. You own that. Really? The core of red hats business. You know, Red Hat Enterprise Lennox, You know, we've been covering this space heavily for years, and everything that redheads doing comes back to, you know, that Lennox Colonel and there Ah, lot of people don't really understand that. The business model say it's like, Oh, well, you know, red hat cells free and, oh, that's a service model and things like that bring us inside your business and what's exciting and dynamic and happening in that space. >> It's It's such an incredible time. I couldn't ask for a better job, but I love the linen space for a couple of things. As you look at all the things that are changing in the industry today, I always say to customers, you may not know the applications. You'll run next year in three years, in five years, you may not know where you'll want to run them. What you do know it's they'll run on Lennox, right? It's the fastest growing operating system in the industry today. It's number one choice of developers. So, as you look to see, what can you do to prepare for the innovation Its pick your Lennox and Red hat has done an incredible job of making a consumable. If you look at the hundreds of thousands of packages out there, an open source, you take that you pull it into. Really, I feel what well delivers bread had. Enterprise Lennox delivers is an ecosystem. It's a trusted ecosystem. We test the team does an incredible job of testing a breadth of hardware, everything from, you know, X eighty six systems to power systems. Dizzy, too, you know, in video G, D G X. So way test all of that and then all the way up to the applications. We pull that ecosystem with us now, our goal is to be able to provide that anywhere. So you take that capability whether you do it. Bare metal, virtual machine, public cloud, private cloud. Now you move into containers. You know, everything we do in rail translates overto open shift. Whether you consume it as a private cloud and open stack or containerized in open shift, all of that ecosystem follows through. So it really is. When I look at is the bedrock of the of the entire portfolio for red hat, and we really are at Enterprise software company Today we pull in management with things like answerable and satellite. You pull all that together. Automation of the storage portfolio. It's just such an exciting time. It's a real transition from going from a no s company and building >> upon that. >> I mean truly an enterprise software company from multiple clouds. >> So I was talking about more about that because open shift gets all the buzz. Ostensibly, it was a key linchpin of the acquisition that I being made. Well, What's the connection between between rail and the rest of red hats? Portfolio. Maybe you could connect those dogs. >> That would be so, as you look at, and I'm an infrastructure person for a long time, as you know, and coming from the infrastructure up space, most was purchased from an infrastructure of you for many years. Now. It's all about how you consume the applications and the infrastructure comes in and feeds it from an application. Space containers are amazing, right? They bring that incredible flexibility started. Stop it, move it lifted, shifted Everything. Thing is, from an application perspective, it's simple. From a Lennox perspective, it's actually much more complicated, you know, in the days of bare metal or even V EMS. Quite clean cut between your systems, your operating system. You're hyper visor in your application. Once you move into containerized worlds, you've split up your Lennox. You have user space in your container. You have Cooper netease making ten times the number of calls to the colonel space that the hyper visor ever did. Much more complicated. So as you move into that space of Kou Burnett ease and containers and orchestration, you know, you really want someone who knows Lennox because the clinic space is more complicated, bringing simplicity from a container and application >> performance management, security changes >> Absolutely automation. So really is as we look at the portfolio, we have a You know, we believe strongly in the customer experience, we deploy with rail that trusted ecosystem. In order to be able to take that into a container world, we need to be able to get access into the user space into the coup. Burnett ease and into the colonel because they're so intimately twine entwined. So as we transition that open shift is the way we delivered, we build upon the same rail. Colonel, we used the user space. >> So, Stephanie, like you, I'm an infrastructure person. And, you know, my background is in, you know, the OS. And, you know, down that environment, there's been a wave of, you know, just enough operating system. How do we slice these up? I look of Cora West, which read, Had acquired was originally a We're going to slim down, you know, the colonel and make things easily. Where's the innovation still happening? Lenox And, well, you know why is still Lin It's going to be relevant going forward. You talked about, you know, containers, things like server list all threatened to say, Oh, well, you know, my application development person shouldn't have to think about it. But why is it still important? >> Yeah. So you know whether things I love about my role is with the position that red hat has in the industry with rail. And, you know, we have Ah, we have a approximately fifty thousand set of that fifty thousand customers who use rail and trust us. So as we look at how we drive innovation, I love the ability to kind of help redefine what an operating system is. And you know, certainly we bring added value did in real seven and now we have the relic beta out. So we're continuously adding things. We added in a few things about consumption base. We added app streams which separates out the ability to update your user space at a different rate in pace than your core. A court sort of based level which allows you to do faster updates in your user space. Continue on your core. Run multiple versions of your user space. It's a fantastic way to pull an innovation faster. We've also done a number of things with our capabilities around taking that first step into container ization, including tools like Build a pod man scope EOE so that within the operating system itself you conduced those based kind of capabilities for container ization. That first step. And then when you need orchestration, you can move over to open ship. So there's a ton of innovation left in the operating system. Security is core to everything we do. S o the innovation around security remains a constant were in the typical open source fashion. We've released the Beta here in November. We're gathering great feedback. We have about one hundred and forty high touch beta customers who were working hand in hand with to get feedback. And we're looking forward to bringing rally to market >> What? One of the big pieces of feedback you're getting a lot of people excited about in terms of Really. >> Certainly everyone looks to us for their security. So that's been that's been a great place for us. We had work to do on making it easier to consume as we continue to drive things with developers. And we have a new portal that's allowing sort of a single user space view those kinds of consumption. Things are very important today because, as you said, you want skills to be easily transferrable. Easily updated s o A lot of the consumption based things we've been >> working on, >> um, as well as thie tooling? >> Yeah. You talk about that skill set that's one of the biggest challenges in a multi cloud world is if I'm going to live in all these iron mint, what's the same and what's different communities is only a small piece. But Lennox is, you know something that's transferrable. What are you seeing? What are you hearing from customers in that regard? >> Yeah, I think, and that's one thing. We're working hard to try and make sure that you know, I think like when you when you buy a house, right, you can buy a house. You could buy an apartment building in Pine Office building. What doesn't change is the land underneath. You need that land to be stable, and you know you can build whatever you want on it. And that's how we view our lennox consuming anywhere you want. It's always secure. It's always stable in multiple public clouds. I think really it's the flexibility when I look at that pull open hybrid cloud space, customers aren't looking to buy a product. They're looking to establish a relationship with someone who's going to provide them what they need to do today on their mission critical applications but have the flexibility going forward to take them where they want to go. They may pick Ascent one public cloud today. They want to move it in two years and three years to a different public cloud. It's establishing that relationship to be able to consume that Lennox, preserve those skills but have the flexibility. And tomorrow >> Red has made a number of storage acquisitions recently. Obviously, the tight relationship between the operating system and the I O how do you look at that space? The opportunity, You know, the TAM talk a little bit about the storage moments >> we have so clearly we have our storage division. We've been working very closely with them to build up capabilities. Largely, you'll see it with open shift. The container ization and storage management within containers is tricky business. So as we pulled together the collaboration between our storage unit as well as our container unit, that's providing real capabilities for that ease of consumption. How do you bring the storage with the container deploys. My team has worked very closely with the management team as you pull in the management aspect with things like automation and management satellite capabilities, answerable is an amazing tool. Amazing tool. In fact, we've pulled in things like system rolls directly into the operating system so that you can set up things like networking. You. Khun, set up storage with answerable playbooks in a much simpler way. That's allowing us to get that ease of consumption. It is about, you know, David's fully about being able for us Tow leverage the portfolio. How do we allow clients to take the journey using Lennox from everything from bare metal and VM out to container ization, Pull in multiple clouds, get the storage features and functions and get the automation and management. >> So, Stephanie, you would looked at and partnered with Red had quite a bit before you had joined the company. What surprised you coming inside the company? Is there anything but being on the inside now that you look back here like, Wow, I didn't expect that or was different than what I had seen from the outside. >> You know, I think what I think, what I love and surprise me a bit was the passion of open source. You know, you look at any company from the outside and and certainly as a student from the outside, you look at the business and how the business is doing and how it's growing in his study. All of that, Well, you don't get to see from the outside is the open source passion of the developers who I get to work with every day. I mean, they just they understand the market. They do it as a hobby on the weekends. It's it's It's just unbelievable, right? I love being I'm up in Westford is, you know, with all the developers, it's great. >> So I'm gonna ask you a lot of talk about the culture, you know, between Red Hat and IBM. You you've been in both camps. Now what do you thoughts in the culture >> s O? You know, I think when I look at the culture, I love the culture at Red Hat. As you know, I've been in many places at IBM and multiple divisions and multiple units. There's a lot of autonomy between the business units at IBM from my own experience. And there's so many people I miss working with colleagues at IBM that, you know I worked in and head with, and WeII brought amazing things to mark it. So I look forward to working with them again. You know, I always look for those groups that are passionate, and there's a lot of passionate IBM is I miss working with. So I look forward to bringing that back >> seventy one to give you the final word. We know. You know Jim Whitehurst has got a president and he's doing later today. I believe Red Hat has a has a good presence there, tells Red Hat here it think. What should be people be looking >> for? Yeah, I think so. Clearly, there's a lot of buzz and excitement about what both Red Hat and IBM Khun do together for the open hybrid cloud. I come at it now from a full Lennox perspective, and I couldn't be more excited about what Lennox is going to deliver for innovation and for customers to consume an innovation as we pull in and look, look to all these discussion that will happen with Jim and Jeannie on stage today, it's it's great. We'll be able to take what Red Hat has done and scale it now with the help of IBM, so very excited about the future. All right, >> Well, Stephanie, we really appreciate your sharing. Congratulations. You're going >> to see about thanks for the time. >> So we still have, you know, about three more days left here at IBM Thinking, of course, the Cube will be at Red Hat Summit twenty nineteen, which is back in Boston, Massachusetts, for Dave A lotta arms to minimum. Thanks for watching the cue

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. Hi, CUBE nation, I'm Sam Kahane. Thanks for watching the CUBE. Due to popular demand from the community, I will be interviewing the legendary Stu Miniman, here today. He is S-T-U on Twitter. Stu and I are going to be digging in to the 2019 predictions, and also recapping 2018 for you here. So, Stu, let's get into it a little bit. 2018, can you set the stage? How many events did you go to? How many interviews did you conduct? >> Boy, Sam, it's tough to look back. We did so much with the CUBE this year. I, personally, did over 20 shows, and somewhere between 400 and 450 interviews, out of, we as a team did over a 100 shows, over 2000 interviews. So, really great to be in the community, and immerse ourselves, drink from the fire hose, and some of the data. (laughs) >> So, over 400 interviews this year, that's amazing. What about some of the key learnings from 2018? Yeah, Sam,my premise when I'm going out is, how are we maturing? My background, as you know, Sam, I'm an infrastructure guy. My early training was in networking. I worked on virtualization, and I've been riding this wave of cloud for about the last 10 years. So, about two years ago, it was, software companies, how are they living in these public clouds? Amazon, of course, the dominant player in the marketplace, but we know it will be a multi-cloud world. And the update, for 2018, is we've gone from, how do I live in those public clouds, to how are we maturing? We call it hybrid clouds, or multi-cloud, but living between these worlds. We saw the rise in Kubernetes, as a piece of it, but customers have lots of environments, and how they get their arms around that, is a serious challenge out there, today. So, how are the suppliers and communities, and the systems integration, helping customers with this really challenging new environment, that we have today. >> I'd love to hear any OMG moments from you. What surprised you the most this year? >> It's interesting, when I wanna think about some of the big moves in the industry, I mean, we had the largest software acquisition in tech history. IBM, the company you used to work for, Sam, buying Red Hat, a company I've worked with, for about 20 years, for 34 billion dollars. I mean, Red Hat has been the poster child for open source, and the exemplar of that. It was something that was like, wow, this is a big deal. We've been talking for a long time, how important developers are, and how important open source is, and there's nothing like seeing Big Blue, a 107-year-old company, putting in huge dollars, to really, not just validate, cause IBM's been working in open source, working with Linux for a long time, but how important this is to the future. And that sits right at that core of that multi-cloud world. Red Hat wants to position itself to live in a lot of those environments, not just for Linux, but the Middleware, Kubernetes is a big play. We saw a number of acquisitions in the space there. Red Hat bought CoreOS for $250 million. VMware bought Heptio, and was kind of surprised, at the sticker shock, $550 million. Great team, we know the Heptio team well. We talked to them, some of the core people, back when they were at Google. But, some big dollars are being thrown around, in this space, and, as you said, the big one in the world is Amazon. One of the stories that everybody tracked all year was the whole hq2 thing. It kind of struck me as funny, as Amazon is in Seattle. I actually got to visit Seattle, for the first time, this year, and somebody told me, if you look at the top 50 companies that have employees in Seattle, of course, Amazon is number one, but you need to take number two through 43, and add them together, to make them as big as Amazon. Here in Boston, there's a new facility going up, with 5,000 employees. I know they're going to have 25,000 in Long Island City, right in the Queens, in New York City, as well as Crystal City, right outside of DC, 25,000. But, the realization is that, of course, Amazon's going to have data centers, in pretty much every country, and they're going to have employees all around the world. This doesn't just stay to the US, but Amazon, overall. So, Amazon, just a massive employer. I know so many people who have joined them. (laughs) Some that have left them. But, almost everything that I talk about, tends to come back to Amazon, and what there are doing, or how people are trying to compete, or live in that ecosystem. >> You're always talking to the community. What are some of the hottest topics you're hearing out there? >> So, living in this new world, how are we dealing with developers? A story that I really liked, my networking background, the Cisco DevNet team, led by Suzie Wee, is a really phenomenal example, and one of my favorite interviews of the year. I actually got to talk to Suzie twice this year. We've known her for many years. She got promoted to be a Senior Vice President, which is a great validation, but what she built is a community from the ground up. It took about four years to build this platform, and it's not about, "Oh, we have some products, and developers love it.", but it's the marketplace that they live in, really do have builders there. It's the most exciting piece of what's happening at Cisco. My first show for 2019 will be back at Cisco, live in Barcelona, and Cisco going through this massive transformation, to be the dominant networking company. When they talk about their future, it is as a software company. That actually, it blew my mind, Sam. You know, Cisco is the networking company. When they say, "When you think of us, "five to ten years from now, "you won't think of us as a networking company. "You'll think of us as a software company." That's massive. They were one of the four horsemen of the internet era. And, if Cisco is making that change, everything changes. IBM, people said if they don't make this move for Red Hat, is there danger in the future? So, everything is changing so fast, it is one of the things that everybody tries to sort out and deal with. I've got some thoughts on that, which I'm sure we'll get to later on. >> (laughs) As is Suzie Wee one of your top interviews of 2018, could you give your top three interviews? >> First of all, my favorite, Sam, is always when I get to talk to the practitioners. A few of the practitioners I love talking to, at the Nutanix show in New Orleans this year, I talked to Vijay Luthra, with Northern Trust. My co-host of the show was Keith Townsend. Keith, Chicago guy, said, "Northern Trust is one "of the most conservative financial companies", and they are all-in on containerization, modernized their application. It is great to see a financial company that is driving that kind of change. That's kind of a theme I think you'll see, Sam. Another, one, was actually funny enough, Another Nutanix show, at London, had the Manchester City Council. So, the government, what they're doing, how they're driving change, what they're doing with their digital transformation, how they're thinking of IOT. Some of my favorite interviews I've done the last few years, have been in the government, because you don't think of government as innovating, but, they're usually resource-constrained. They have a lot of constituencies, and therefore, they need to do this. The Amazon public sector show was super-impressive. Everything from, I interviewed a person from the White House Historical Society. They brought on Jackie O's original guidebook, of being able to tour the White House. So, some really cool human interest, but it's all a digital platform on Amazon. What Amazon is doing in all of the industry-specific areas, is really impressive. Some of these smaller shows that we've done, are super-impressive. Another small show, that really impressed me, is UiPath, robotic process automation, or RPA, been called the gateway drug to AI, really phenomenal. I've got some background in operations, and one of the users on the program was talking about how you could get that process to somewhere around 97 to 98% compliance, and standardize, but when they put in RPA, they get it to a full six sigma, which is like 99.999%, and usually, that's something that just humans can't do. They can't just take the variation out of a process, with people involved. And, this has been the promise of automation, and it's a theme. One of my favorite questions, this year, has been, we've been talking about things like automation, and intelligence in systems, for decades, but, now, with the advent of AI machine learning, we can argue whether these things are actually artificial intelligence, in what they are learning, but the programming and learning models, that can be set up and trained, and what they can do on their own, are super-impressive, and really poised to take the industry to the next level. >> So, I wanna fast forward to 2019, but before we do so, anything else that people need to know about 2018? >> 2018, Sam, it's this hybrid multi-cloud world. The relationship that I think we spend the most time talking about, is we talked a lot about Amazon, but, VMware. VMware now has over 600,000 customers, and that partnership with VMware is really interesting. The warning, of course, is that Amazon is learning a lot from Vmware, When we joke with my friends, we say, "Okay, you've learned a lot from them means that "maybe I don't need them in the long term." But in the short term, great move for VMware, where they've solidified their position with customers. Customers feel happy as to where they live, in that multi-cloud environment, and I guess we throw out these terms like hybrid, and multi, and things like that, but when I talk to users, they're just figuring out their digital transformation. They're worried about their business. Yes, they're doing cloud, so sassify what you can, put in the public cloud what makes sense, and modernize. Beware of lift and shift, it's really not the answer. It could be a piece of the overall puzzle, to be able to modernize and pull things apart. An area, I always try to keep ahead of what the next bleeding-edge thing is, Sam. A thing I've been looking at, deeply, the last two years, has been serverless. Serverless is phenomenal. It could just disrupt everything we're talking about, and, Amazon, of course, has the lead there. So, it was kind of an undercurrent discussion at the KubeCon Show, that we were just at. Final thing, things are changing all the time, Sam, and it is impossible for anybody to keep up on all of it. I get the chance to talk to some of the most brilliant people, at some of the most amazing companies, and even those, you know, the PhD's, the people inventing stuff, they're like, "I can't keep up with what's going on at my company, "let alone what's going on in the industry." So, that's the wrong thing. Of course, one of the things we helped to do, is to extract the signal from the noise, help people distill that. We put it into video, we put it into articles, we put it into podcasts, to help you understand some of the basics, and where you might wanna go to learn more. So, we're all swimming in this. You know, the only constant, Sam, in the industry is change. >> Absolutely. (laughing in unison) >> So, things are changing. The whole landscape, as you said, is changing. Going into 2019, what should people expect? Any predictions from you? Any big mergers and acquisitions you might see? >> It's amazing, Sam. The analogy I always use is, when you have the hundred year flood, you always say, "Oh gosh, we got through it, "and we should be okay." No, no, no, the concern is, if you have the hundred year flood, or the big earthquake, the chances are that you're going to have maybe something of the same magnitude, might even be more or less, but rather soon. A couple of years ago, Dell bought EMC, largest acquisition in tech history. We spent a lot of time analyzing it. By the way, Dell's gonna go public, December 28. Interesting move, billions of dollars. As Larry Ellison said, "Michael Dell, "he's no dummy when it comes to money.' He is going to make, personally, billions of dollars off of this transaction, and, overall, looks good for the Dell technologies family, as they're doing. So, that acquisition, the Red Hat acquisition, yeah, we're probably gonna see a 10-to-20 billion dollar acquisition this year. I'm not sure who it is. There's a lot of tech IPOs on the horizon. The data protection space is one that we've kept a close eye on. From what I hear, Zeam, who does over a billion dollars a year, not looking to go public. Rubrik, on the other hand, somewhere in the north of 200 million dollars worth of revenue, I kind of remember 200, 250 in run rate, right now, likely going to go public in 2019. Could somebody sweep in, and buy them before they go public? Absolutely. Now, I don't think Rubrik's looking to be acquired. In that space, you've got Rubrik, you've got Cohesity, you've got a whole lot of players, that it has been a little bit frothy, I guess you'd say. But, customers are looking for a change in how they're doing things, because their environments are changing. They've got lots of stuff in sass, gotta protect that data. They've got things all over the cloud, and that data issue is core. When we actually did our predictions for 2018, data was at the center of everything, when I talked about Wikibon. It was just talking to Peter Burris and David Floyer, and they said there is some hesitancy in the enterprise, like, I'm using Salesforce, I'm using Workday I'm using ServiceNow. We hear all the things about Facebook giving my data away, Google, maybe the wrong people own data, there's that concern I want to pull things back. I always bristle a little bit, when you talk about things like repatriation, and "I'm not gonna trust the cloud." Look, the public clouds are more secure, than my data centers are in general, and they're changing and updating much faster. One of the biggest things we have, in IT, is that I put something in, and making changes is tough. Change, as we said, is the only thing constant. It was something I wrote about. Red Hat, actually, is a company that has dealt with a lot of change. Anybody that sells anything with Linux, or Kubernetes, there are so many changes happening, on not only weekly, but a daily basis, that they help bring a little bit of order, and adult supervision, to what most people would say is chaos out there. That's the kind of thing we need more in the industry, is I need to be able to manage that change. A line I've used many times is, you don't go into a company and say, "Hey, what version of Azure are you running?" You're running whatever Microsoft says is the latest and greatest. You don't have to worry about Patch Tuesday, or 08. I've got that things that's gonna slow down my system for awhile. Microsoft needs to make that invisible to me. They do make that thing invisible to me. So does Amazon, so does Google. >> What's your number one company to watch, this upcoming year. Is it Amazon, Sam? Look, Amazon is the company at the center of it all. Their ecosystem is amazing. While Amazon adds more in revenue, than the number two infrastructure player does in revenue. So, look, in the cloud space, it is not only Amazon's world. There definitely is a multi-cloud world. I went to the Microsoft show for the first time, this year, and Microsoft's super-impressive. They focus on your business applications, and their customers love it. Office 365 really helped move everybody towards sass, in a big way, and it's a big service industry. Microsoft's been a phenomenal turnaround story, the last couple of years. Definitely want to dig in more with that ecosystem, in 2019 and beyond. But, Amazon, you know, we could do more shows of the CUBE, in 2019, than we did our first couple of years. They have, of course, Amazon re:Invent, our biggest show of the year, but their second year, it's about 20 shows, that they do, and we're increasing those. I've been to the New York City Summit, and the San Francisco Summit. I've already mentioned their Public Sector Summit. Really, really, really good ecosystems, phenomenal users, and I already told you how I feel about talking to users. It's great to hear what they're doing, and those customers are moving things around. Google, love doing the Google show. We'll be back there in April. Diane Greene is one of the big guests of the year, for us this year. I was sorry to miss it in person, 'cause I actually have some background. I worked with Diane. Back before EMC bought VMware. I had the pleasure of working with Vmware, when they were, like, a hundred person company. Sam, one of the things, I look back at my career, and I'm still a little bit agog. I mean, I was in my mid-20s, working in this little company, of about 100 people, signed an NDA, started working with them, and that's VMware, with 600,000 customers. I've watched their ascendancy. It's been one of the pleasures of my career. There's small ones, heck. Nutanix I've mentioned a couple of times. I started working them when they were real small. They have over a billion in revenue. New Cure, since the early days. Some companies have done really well. The cloud is really the center of gravity of what I watch. Edge computing we got into a bit. I'm surprised we got almost 20 minutes into this conversation, without mentioning it. That, the whole IOT space, and edge computing, really interesting. We did a fun show with PTC, here in Boston. Got to talk to the father of AI, the father of virtual reality. It's like all these technologies, many of which have been bouncing around for a couple of decades. How are they gonna become real? We've got a fun virtual reality place right next door. The guy running the cameras for us is a huge VR enthusiast. How much will those take the next step? And, how much are things stalling out? I worry, was having conversations. Autonomous vehicles, we're even looking at the space. Been talking about it. Will it really start to accelerate? Or have we hit road blocks, and it's gonna get delayed. Some of these are technologies, some of these are policies in place, in governments and the like, and that's still one of the things that slows down crowded options. You know, GDPR was the big discussion, leading into the beginning of 2018. Now, we barely talk about it. There's more regulations coming, in California and the like, but we do need to worry about some of those macro-economical and political things that sometimes get in the way, of some of the technology pieces. >> I'd love to put something out into the universe, here. If you could interview anyone in the world, who would it be? Let's see if we can make it happen. It's amazing to me, Sam, some of the interviews we've done. I got a one-on-one with Michael Dell this year. It was phenomenal, Michael was one. It took us about three or four years before we got Michael on the program, the first time. Now, we have him two or three times a year. Really, to get to talk to him. There is the founder culture John Furrier always talks about. Some of these founders are very different. Michael, amazing, got to speak to him a couple of times. There's something that makes him special, and there's a reason why he's a billionaire, and he's done very well for himself. So, that was one. Furrier also interviewed John Chambers, who is one of the big gets I was looking at. I was jealous that I wasn't able to get there. I got to interview one of my favorite authors this year, Walter Isaacson, at the shows. When I look at, Elon Musk, of course, as a technologist, is, I'm amazed. I read his bio, I've heard some phenomenal interviews with him. Kara Swisher did a phenomenal sit-down on her podcast with him. Even the 60 Minutes interview was decent this year. >> The Joe Rogan one was great >> Yeah, so, you'd want to be able to sit down. I wouldn't expect Elon to be a 15-minute, rapid-fire conversation, like we usually have. But, we do some longer forms, sit down. So he would be one. Andrew Jassy, we've interviewed a number of times now. Phenomenal. We've got to get Bezos on the program. Some of the big tech players out there. Look, Larry Ellison's another one that we haven't had on the program. We've had Mark Hurd on the program, We've had lots of the Oracle executives. Oracle's one that you don't count out. They still have so many customers, and have strong power in new issues, So there are some big names. I do love some of the authors, that we've had on the program, some thought leaders in the space. Every time we go to a show, it's like, I was a little disappointed I didn't get to interview Jane Goodall, when she was at a show. Things like that. So, we ask, and never know when you can get 'em. A lot of times, it's individual stories of the users, which are phenomenal, and there's just thousands of good stories. That's why we go to some small shows, and make sure we always have some editorial coverage. So that, if their customers are comfortable sharing their story, that's the foundation our research was founded on. Peers sharing with their peers. Some of the most powerful stories of change, and taking advantage of new technologies, and really transforming, not just business, but health care and finance, and government. There's so much opportunity for innovation, and drivers in the marketplace today. >> Stu, I love it. Thanks for wrapping up 2018 for us, and giving us the predictions. CUBE nation, you heard it here. We gotta get Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Larry Ellison on the CUBE this year. We could use your help. Stu, thank you, and CUBE nation, thank you for watching. (electronic techno music)

>> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Node Summit 2017 in downtown San Francisco Mission Bay Conference Center, we've been coming here for years. The vibe is growing and exciting and some really interesting use cases in earlier sessions about how fast a Node adoption is happening in some of these enterprises and we're excited to have Michael Dawson. He's a software developer, but more importantly, he's a Node.js community lead for IBM. Michael welcome. >> Alright, thank you. It's great to be here. Nice to be able to talk to you and talk about Node.js and what's going on in the community. >> Just to get your impressions in terms of a temporal perspective, of how this has changed and evolved over time. A lot of talk about the community. I think the facility here only holds like 800 people. I think it's full to the capacity. You know, how has it been growing and kind of what's your perspective from a little bit of a higher point of view. >> It's really great, you know I was at Node Summit three years ago, and other conferences, and it's great to see that over the years how we get more and more people involved. Different constituencies, you know, more people who are deploying Node.js. And even just, you know, day-to-day we see a larger and larger number of collaborators who are getting involved in contributing to make the success of Node really grow and the functionality and all that great stuff. >> Jeff: Right. So what's your function inside of IBM as being kind of a Node advocate for the community I assume outside the walls of IBM, but then also inside the walls of IBM? >> So, I really have sort of the pleasure to be able to work out in the community. That's the large part of my job. But I also work very closely with our internal teams with a focus on Node.js, supporting it for our bundling products. IBM has about 50-60 products that bundle Node.js. We also support it through our platforms like Bluemix, and so I work with the team who supports those. You know if you're running Bluemix in Node it's the code that we've contributed and built. And our development approach is very much do that out in the community, so if a particular product needs some sort of feature we'll go out and work in the community to do that and then pull that back in to use it. So you see we have about 10 collaborators. I'm one of them and the great thing is that I get to be involved in a lot of the working group efforts like the N-API, the build work groups, the LTS work groups. And, you know, so my role is really to sort of bridge the community work that we do there to our internal needs and consumers as well. >> Right, so how is the uptake in the IBM world of this technology within all the different stats that you guys have? >> I work in the run time technologies team and we were called the Java Technology Center for a number of years, we're now called the Run Time Technology Center because we see it's a polyglot world with Node.js being one of the three key run times you know, it's Node.js, Java and Swift. [Jeff] - Right. >> And, we see that because we see our costumers as well as our products, you know, really embracing Node and using it in all sorts of places. They've mentioned earlier that Bluemix ARPAs is a very heavy user of Node.js in terms of the implementation of the UIs and the backend services, as well as Node.js is the biggest run time in terms of deployments in that environment as well. >> So it's interesting, we had Monica on earlier from Intel. I think you're going to be on a panel with her later today about benchmarking. >> Yeah. >> And she talked about that there's some unique challenges in trying to figure out how to benchmark these types of applications against kind of the benchmark standards of old. I wondered if you could share some of your thoughts on this challenge, and for the folks that aren't going to be here watching the panel, what are some of the topics that you want to make sure that get exposed in that panel. >> So, you know, I've been working with the benchmarking work group. I actually kicked it off a number of years back. The approach that we're following is we want to document the key use cases for Node, as well as the key attributes of the run time, like you know, like starting up fast, being small, the things that have made it successful. [Jeff] - Right. >> As well as the key use cases like a web front end, backend services for mobile, and then fill in that matrix with important benchmarks. I mean that's where one of the challenges comes in; other languages have a more mature and established set of benchmarks that different vendors and different people can use. >> Right. >> Whereas the work in the working group is to try and either find benchmarks and encourage people to write those benchmarks, and pull together a more comprehensive suite that we can use because performance is important to people, and as a community, we really want to make sure that we encourage a rapid pace of change, but be able to have a good handle on what's going on on the other side. >> Jeff: Right. >> And, having the benchmarks in place should be an enabler, in that if we can easily and quickly find out what a change impact has, a positive or negative, that'll help us move things forward as opposed to if you're uncertain it's a lot harder to make the decision as to which way you should go. >> It's funny on benchmarking, right, because on one hand, people can just poo-poo benchmarks because I'm writing my benchmark so that it beats your product and my benchmark, and you can write a benchmark the other way. But I think what you've just touched on is really important; it's really for optimization of what you're doing for improving your own performance over time. That's really the key to the benchmarks. >> Yeah, absolutely, the focus of the work in the benchmarking work group has been on a framework for like regression testing, and letting us make the right decision, not competition. >> Jeff: Right. >> I think that some of the pieces that we develop will perhaps factor into that, but the core focus is to get a good established set, and other individual companies can then maybe use it for other purposes as well. >> Jeff: Right. So Michael before I let you go I just wanted to get your perspective. You work for a big company. >> Michael: Yep. >> I don't think it's this as much anymore; there used to be a lot of opened source conferences people like oh we don't want the big people coming in, they're going to take it over. And to get your perspective of being kind of that liaison between kind of this really organic open source community with Node and big Blue back behind you, and how you kind of navigate that and in your experience of the acceptance of IBM into this community as well as your ability to bring some of that open source essos back into IBM. >> Right. You know, I found that it's been really great. I love this community, they've been very welcoming. I've had no issues at all, you know, getting involved. I think IBM is respected in the way that we've contributed. We're trying to contribute in a very constructive and collaborative way, you know, nothing that we do, do we really do on our own. If you look at the N-API, we're working with other individuals. People from different companies or just individual contributors to come to a consensus on what it should be, and to basically move things forward. So yeah, in terms of a big company coming in, you do hear some concerns, but I haven't seen any on the ground impediments or problems. You know, it's been very welcoming and it's been a great experience. >> Alright, very good. Alright, well, before I let you go, kind of final thoughts on this event where we are. >> It's a great event, I always enjoy being able to come and meet people. A lot of time you work on Git Hub you know somebody's handle, but there's nothing like making that personal connection to be able to like put the face to the name, and I think it affects your ongoing sort of interactions when you're not face-to-face. >> Jeff: Absolutely. >> So it's a really important thing to do, and that's why I like to come to a lot of these events. >> Alright, well Michael Dawson, we'll let you get back to meeting some more developers. Thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Thank you very much, bye. >> Absolutely, he's Michael Dawson from IBM. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching, we'll catch you next time.

>> Man: Let me check. >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering InterConnect 20 17. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Day two, we are here live in Las Vegas for IBM InterConnect. This is Silicon Angle's The Cube coverage of IBM's cloud event. The CEO, Ginni Rometty, was just on stage. We're kickin' off wall to wall coverage for three days. I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Dave Vellante, here for all three days. >> And, our next guest is Andy Lin, who's the VP of (mumbles) Mark Three Systems. A, 20 plus year IBM platinum partner. Doin' some real cutting edge work with cognitive as Ginny Rometty said cognitive to the core, is IBM's core strategy. Data first, enterprise strong is kind of the buzz words. Andy, welcome to The Cube. Appreciate you comin' on. >> Thanks for havin' me. >> So, obviously, enterprise strong, you know, it's, it's a kind of whole nother, you know, conversation that we can go deep on, but data first and cognitive to the core is really kind of the things that you guys are really getting into. All kinds of data types. Automating it and making it almost frictionless to move insights out. So, take a minute to explain what Mark Three's doing and what your role is with the company. >> Sure. Absolutely. So, I'm Vice President of strategy in Mark Three, so I work sort of across all our initiatives, especially areas that are emerging. Just a little bit about Mark Three, just historically for background purposes. So, we're a 22 year IBM platinum partner, as you pointed out. We actually started in the mid 90's, actually doing IT infrastructure around the IBM stack at that time. So, we sort of been with IBM over the last 20 years since the beginning. We've sort of grown up throughout the stack as IBM's evolved over the last two decades. About two and a half years ago, we started a digital development unit, called BlueChasm. And what BlueChasm does, is it basically builds open digital and cognitive platforms on the IBM cloud that are around a lot of services you pointed out. And, we basically designed it based on use cases that the ecosystem and our clients talk about. And, to give you a couple examples, one of the, one of the big ones that we're seeing a lot of interest around is called video recon. Video recon is a video analytics platform that's API enabled and open at it's core. So, regardless of where the video comes from, if it's a content management system, if it's a camera, we're able to basically take in that video, basically watch and listen to the video using Watson and some elements of our own intellectual property. And, then basically return insights based on what it sees and hears along with time stamps, back to the user to actually take action. >> Yeah. I love the name BlueChasm. It brings up, you know, Jeffrey Moore's Crossing the Chasm. Blue, IBM, big blue, so you know, it's a nice clever play. The BlueChasm opportunity. So, in your mind, for people watching, squint through some of the trends and extract out where you see these opportunities. Because if you're talkin' about new opportunities are emerging because of cloud horsepower and compute and storage and all the greatness of cloud, and you got real time analytics kind of really hittin' the main stream. That's going to, that's highlighted by internet of things is you can't go anywhere these days without hearing about autonomous vehicles, industrial (mumbles) things, AI, Mark Benioff was sayin', you know, we've seen the movies like Terminator and we've all dreamed about AI, so we can kind of get excited about the prospects. But, the chasm you're talkin' about, this is where these things that were ungettable before, unreachable new things, what are some of those things that you guys are doin' in that chasm? >> Yeah, so I think some of the things that we're doing are basically enabling, like I'll use video recon as an example, right, we're enabling a class to be able to get new insights using basically computer vision, but in an open and accessible way, that they've never had been able to do before. Vision itself, I don't think is new or revolutionary. You know, a lot of folks are doing it, self driving cars, etcetera. >> John: Yeah. >> But, I think what is new is being able to make it open and easily accessible to the normal enterprise, the normal service provider. Up to now, it's been, you know you've had, really had to have your own team of, you know, really, really deep AI develops or PHD's to be able to produce it for your own platform. What we're trying to do is basically demarketize that. >> John: Yeah. >> So, to give you an example, some use cases that we're, we're sort of working on today, the ability to do things like read meters and gages, as an example, with a camera. That way you can avoid a situation where somebody has to walk around all the time, you know, look at different things that could be dangerous. That there could be issues actually looking at what you see from a metering perspective. Or to be able to, for instance, for in the media entertainment industry or the video production industry, be able to do things like identify shot types, be able to more quickly allow our enterprise users in that particular space to be able to create video content quickly. And, the underlying theme with all this, I think it's really about speed to market. And, how quickly can you iterate and please whatever your customers in that particular space that you're in. >> So with the video recon, so your, your videos are searchable, essentially. >> (Andy) Correct. >> So, so what do you do? Use Watson, natural language processing to sort of translate them? Now (mumbles), of course, you know, NLP is maybe I don't know 75, 80 percent accurate, how do you close that gap? >> Yeah, so video recon does both visual and audio. So, the audio portion you are correct. There is some degree of trade off in accuracy relative to what I think the average human can do today. Assuming the human is focused and able to really tag these videos accurately. So, we are able to train it based on things like proper words and things that are enterprise focused. Because I know there, there are a lot of different ways that I think you can maybe attack this today from a video analytics perspective, where we're focused primarily just on the enterprise, solving business problems with, with video analytics. So, you know, taking advantage of if Watson improves, cause we do use (mumbles) tech at it's core from, on the audio perspective. Applying some of our own techniques to basically improve the accuracy of certain words that matter most to the enterprise. One of the things we've noticed is it's an entirely collaborative relationship with our, with our, with our enterprise clients but really partners. Because what works well for one, may not work well for another. One thing about cognitive is it really depends on the end user as to if this is a good idea or not. Or if this will work for their use case, just based on error, as you pointed out. >> So, to your point, you're identifying enterprise use cases and then tuning the system. Building solutions, essentially, for those use cases. >> Andy: Absolutely. >> Now, you said 22 year IBM platinum partner, so you obviously started well before this so-called digital transformation. >> Andy: Yes. >> You see digital transformation as, you know, revolutionary, or is it more of an evolution of your business? >> I'd definitely say it's an evolution. I think, you know, a lot of the industry buzz words out there are all around, you know, transformation or transition, but for us it's been completely additive. You know, at the end of the day we're just doing what our clients want, you know. And, we're still continuing the core part of our business around modernizing and optimizing IT infrastructure, tech sacks in the data center, also infrastructure service in the cloud. Also, up through the middle where it's still really as strong as ever. I mean, in fact that business has actually been very much reinforced by some of these capabilities that we brought in on the digital development side. Because, at the end of the day, you know, clients may have a digital unit and they may have, you know, IT, but they're really viewed sort of all in the same. A lot of people try to put 'em in two different buckets bimodal or whatever you want to use. But, you know, inevitably, you know, clients just see a business problem they want to address. >> Yep. >> And, they're saying how can I address it the fastest and the most effectively as relative to what their stakeholders want. And, we just realized early on that we had to have that development capability, be able to build platforms, but also guide out clients. If they don't want one of our platforms, if they don't want video recon or cognitive call center platform, that's perfectly fine. We're more than happy to guide them on how to build something similar for their developers with our developers relative to their tech stack, you know, hopefully on the IBM cloud. >> Andy, one of the things you were pointing out that I think is worth highlighting is the digital transformation buzz word, which has been around for a few years now, really is in main stream right now. >> Andy: Yes. >> People are really working hard to figure this out. We're seeing the disruption on the business model side. You mentioned speed and time to market, that's agility. That's not just a technical development term anymore. It's actually business model. It's business related. >> Andy: Yes. >> But there's two axes of things going on. There's the under the hood, heavy lifting stuff that goes on around getting stuff digitally to work. That's IT, security, and you know, Ginni Rometty talks about a lot of that on stage. That's being enterprise grade or enterprise strong. The other one is this digitization of the real world, right? So, that's creative. That requires insights. That requires kind of a different, it's actually probably maybe more fun for some people, but I mean it depends on who your profile is, but you have kind of two spectrums. Cool and relevant and exciting and intoxicating, creative, user experience driven. You mentioned reading meters. >> Andy: Yeah. >> That's the analog world. >> Andy: Yes. >> That's actually space. That's the world. That's like, you got the sky you got the meter. >> Andy: Yeah. >> You got physical impressions. This is the digitization of our world. What's your perspective? How do you talk to customers when they say, "Hey I want to digitize my business." >> Andy: Mm hmm. >> How does it go? What do you say? I mean, do you break it down into those axes? Do you go, did they see it that way? Can you share some color on this digital transformation of digitizing business? >> Yeah, so I mean it really depends on, I think, it normally it has to do with interacting with some other stakeholders in a certain way, you know. I think from our perspective it really is about, you know, how they want to interface. And, most of the time you pointed out speed. Speed I think is the number one reason why people are doing the digital transformation. It's not really about cost or these other factors. It's how quickly can I adjust my business model so I can win in the market place? And, you know, I think I pointed this earlier, but like, you know IOT is huge now. It covers what I call three out of the five senses in my mind. It covers basically touch, smell and taste in many ways. And, for us, I think we're basically trying to help them even get beyond IOT with video. Video really covers, you know, sight and hearing as well. It covers all the five senses. And, then you take that and figure out how do I digitize that experience and be able to allow you to interact with your stakeholders. Whether it be your customers, your suppliers or your partners out in the market place. And, then based on that we'll take these building blocks on how we, you know, extend the experience, and work with them on their specific use case. >> So, you got to ingest the data, which is the, you know, the images or data coming in. >> Correct. >> Then you got to prep it available for insights. >> Correct. >> And, produce them in, like really fast. >> Andy: Yep. >> That's hard. >> Andy: It is, yeah. >> It's not trivial. >> No it is not, it's not a trivial problem. Yeah, absolutely. And, I think, you know, there's a lot of opportunity here in the space over the next I think two to two to five years. But you're absolutely right. >> John: Yeah. >> I mean it is, it is a challenging. >> And, I want to get your thoughts too, and if you can share your reaction to some of the trends around machine learning, for instance. It's really kind of fueling this democratization. >> Andy: Yeah. >> You mention in the old days it was really hard, there was kind of a black art to, to machine learning or unique special, specialties. And, even data science that's at one level was really, really hard. Now you have common people doing things with visualization. What's the same with machine learning? I mean, you got more data sets coming in. Do you see that trend relevant to what you guys are working on in BlueChasm? >> Absolutely. I think at the core of it, and this wasn't our plan initially three years ago, we didn't realize that this was happen, but every single one of the platforms or prototypes or apps we've built, they all incorporate some degree of machine learning, deep learning within it's core. And, this is primarily just driven by I think what, to give a client a unique platform or a unique service on the market. Because, much of the base digitization, I mean Ginny likes to talk a lot about, you know, the key to being, differentiating yourself from digital world is being cognitive. And, we've seen this really play out in practice. And, I think what's changed, as you pointed out is, that it's easily accessible now to sort of the common man, as I put it. In years past, you really had to have people that are highly specialized. You build your own product. But now through open source- >> There's building blocks out there. >> Absolutely. >> You can just take an open source library and say hey, and then tweak the machine learning. >> Absolutely. And, the ramp up time has come down, you know, dramatically, even for our developers. Just watching them work. I mean, the prototype to video recon was built over the course of a weekend by one of our developers. He just came in one Monday and said, you know, is this, is this interesting? >> He's fired. >> Exactly. And, we were like, yes I think this is interesting. >> Well this is the whole inspiration thing that I talk about, the creativity. This is the two axes, right? >> You try to do that in the old days, I got to get a server provision. >> Andy: Yeah. >> I'm done. >> Andy: Right. >> You know, I'm going to go have a a beer. Whatever. I mean, there's almost an abandonment going on. We talked to Indiegogo yesterday about how they're funding companies. >> Andy: Yeah. >> You have this new creative action. >> Andy: Mm hmm. >> So you guys are seeing that. Any other examples you can share in terms of color around this kind of innovation? >> Yeah, so we, at BlueChasm we try to let our developers sort of have free reign over what they like to create. So video recon was spawned literally by a, on a side project, you know as with a lot of companies. It was, you know, a platform that sort of evolved into a commercial product, almost by accident, right? And, we've had others that have been anchored by like what clients had done, but like around the cognitive call center, which basically takes phone calls that are recorded and then basically transcribes and makes them easily searchable for audit reasons, training reasons, etcetera. Same kind of idea. We built things around like cognitive drones. A lot of folks are trying to do things with drones. Drones themselves aren't really not novel anymore, but being able to utilize them to collect data in unique ways, I think that industry is definitely evolving. We've built other things like, what I call the minority report board, after the scene in the movie where the board sort of looks at you and then based on what it sees of you, of different data points, it shows you an ad or shows you a piece of visual content to allow you to interact. >> John: Yeah. >> I mean, these are, these are examples. You know, we have others. But, you know we've just seen like in this organization if we allow creativity to sort of reign, you know, have free reign. We're able to sort of bring it back in along with some of the strengths of core Mark Three about being (mumbles). >> I mean the cognitive is really interesting. It's a programmatic approach to life. And, if you think about it, it's like if you have this collective intelligence with the data, you could offer an augmented reality experience- >> Andy: Yes. >> To anybody now, based upon what you're doin'. >> Absolutely. So I mean, I think that the toughest part I think right now is figuring out which of the opportunities to pursue. Because, there are so many out there and everyone has some interest in some degree, you know. You have to figure out how to prioritize about, you know, which, which of the ones you want to address first. >> John: Yeah. >> And, in what order. Because, what we've noticed is that a lot of these are building blocks that lead to other greater and greater platform concepts, and part of the challenge is figuring out what order you want to actually build these into. And, through you know, microservices through retainerization all these, you know, awesome evolutions as far as like with cloud and infrastructure technology, you're really able to piece together these pieces to build amazing (mumbles) quickly. >> The cloud native stuff is booming right now. >> Yeah. >> It's really fun to watch. Microservices, (mumbles), this orchestration, composability is just kickin' ass. >> Absolutely. >> And, all your clients are basically becoming software companies. They're takin' your services and building out their own sas capabilities. >> Andy: Right. >> Right? >> Without a doubt. I mean, you know the cloud (mumbles), container revolution's been significant for us. I mean we, we added the audio component to video recon based on some of the work we've been doing on the call center side. It was almost by accident. And, we were able to really put them together in a day because we were able to basically easily compose the overall platform at that time, or the prototype of the platform at that time just by linking together those services. So, we see this as a pattern moving forward. >> Andy, thanks for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate it. In the quick 30 seconds, what are you doin' here at the show? What are you guys talkin' about? What's some of the activity? Coolest thing you're seeing? Share some insight, what's going on here in Las Vegas. Share some perspective. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we have a booth here in Vegas. We're demoing some of the platforms we talked about: video recon, cognitive call center. We're at booth six 87, which is toward the center back of the expo center. We have four break outs that we'll be doing as well. Talking about some of these concepts, as well as some of our projects that involve, you know, modernization of the data center as well. So, the true what I call IBM full stack. >> And, for the folks that aren't here watching, is there, the website address? Where can they go to get more information? >> Yeah, absolutely. You can go to Mark Three sys. M A R K triple I S Y S dot com, which is our website. If you want to learn a little bit more about video recon you can go to video recon dot I O. We have a very simple demo page, but you know, if you're interested in learning more or you want to explore if we can accommodate your specific use case, please feel free to reach out to me. Also, Mark Three systems, M A R K triple I systems at Twitter as well, and I can get back to you. >> Well, you know we're going to follow up with you. Going to get all of our Cube videos into the cognitive era. You'll be seeing us, pinging you online for that. >> Yeah. >> Love the video recon, just great. BlueChasm, great, great initiative. Congratulations on that. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for comin' on. Its The Cube live here in Las Vegas. Day two of coverage, wall to wall. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay with us. More great interviews after this short break.