>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCube! (funky electronic music) Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante! >> Welcome, everybody, to this Cube conversation here in our Marlborough offices. I am very excited today, I spent a number of years at IDC, which, of course, is owned by IDG. And there's a new book out, relatively new, called Future Forward: Leadership Lessons from Patrick McGovern, the Visionary Who Circled the Globe and Built a Technology Media Empire. And it's a great book, lotta stories that I didn't know, many that I did know, and the author of that book, Glenn Rifkin, is here to talk about not only Pat McGovern but also some of the lessons that he put forth to help us as entrepreneurs and leaders apply to create better businesses and change the world. Glenn, thanks so much for comin' on theCube. >> Thank you, Dave, great to see ya. >> So let me start with, why did you write this book? >> Well, a couple reasons. The main reason was Patrick McGovern III, Pat's son, came to me at the end of 2016 and said, "My father had died in 2014 and I feel like his legacy deserves a book, and many people told me you were the guy to do it." So the background on that I, myself, worked at IDG back in the 1980s, I was an editor at Computerworld, got to know Pat during that time, did some work for him after I left Computerworld, on a one-on-one basis. Then I would see him over the years, interview him for the New York Times or other magazines, and every time I'd see Pat, I'd end our conversation by saying, "Pat, when are we gonna do your book?" And he would laugh, and he would say, "I'm not ready to do that yet, there's just still too much to do." And so it became sort of an inside joke for us, but I always really did wanna write this book about him because I felt he deserved a book. He was just one of these game-changing pioneers in the tech industry. >> He really was, of course, the book was even more meaningful for me, we, you and I started right in the same time, 1983-- >> Yeah. >> And by that time, IDG was almost 20 years old and it was quite a powerhouse then, but boy, we saw, really the ascendancy of IDG as a brand and, you know, the book reviews on, you know, the back covers are tech elite: Benioff wrote the forward, Mark Benioff, you had Bill Gates in there, Walter Isaacson was in there, Guy Kawasaki, Bob Metcalfe, George Colony-- >> Right. >> Who actually worked for a little stint at IDC for a while. John Markoff of The New York Times, so, you know, the elite of tech really sort of blessed this book and it was really a lot to do with Pat McGovern, right? >> Oh, absolutely, I think that the people on the inside understood how important he was to the history of the tech industry. He was not, you know, a household name, first of all, you didn't think of Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and then Pat McGovern, however, those who are in the know realize that he was as important in his own way as they were. Because somebody had to chronicle this story, somebody had to share the story of the evolution of this amazing information technology and how it changed the world. And Pat was never a front-of-the-TV-camera guy-- >> Right. >> He was a guy who put his people forward, he put his products forward, for sure, which is why IDG, as a corporate name, you know, most people don't know what that means, but people did know Macworld, people did know PCWorld, they knew IDC, they knew Computerworld for sure. So that was Pat's view of the world, he didn't care whether he had the spotlight on him or not. >> When you listen to leaders like Reed Hoffman or Eric Schmidt talk about, you know, great companies and how to build great companies, they always come back to culture. >> Yup. >> The book opens with a scene of, and we all, that I usually remember this, well, we're just hangin' around, waitin' for Pat to come in and hand out what was then called the Christmas bonus-- >> Right. >> Back when that wasn't politically incorrect to say. Now, of course, it's the holiday bonus. But it was, it was the Christmas bonus time and Pat was coming around and he was gonna personally hand a bonus, which was a substantial bonus, to every single employee at the company. I mean, and he did that, really, literally, forever. >> Forever, yeah. >> Throughout his career. >> Yeah, it was unheard of, CEOs just didn't do that and still don't do that, you were lucky, you got a message on the, you know, in the lunchroom from the CEO, "Good work, troops! Keep up the good work!" Pat just had a really different view of the culture of this company, as you know from having been there, and I know. It was very familial, there was a sense that we were all in this together, and it really was important for him to let every employee know that. The idea that he went to every desk in every office for IDG around the United States, when we were there in the '80s there were probably 5,000 employees in the US, he had to devote substantial amount-- >> Weeks and weeks! >> Weeks at a time to come to every building and do this, but year after year he insisted on doing it, his assistant at the time, Mary Dolaher told me she wanted to sign the cards, the Christmas cards, and he insisted that he ensign every one of them personally. This was the kind of view he had of how you keep employees happy, if your employees are happy, the customers are gonna be happy, and you're gonna make a lot of money. And that's what he did. >> And it wasn't just that. He had this awesome holiday party that you described, which was epic, and during the party, they would actually take pictures of every single person at the party and then they would load the carousel, you remember the 35-mm. carousel, and then, you know, toward the end of the evening, they would play that and everybody was transfixed 'cause they wanted to see their, the picture of themselves! >> Yeah, yeah. (laughs) >> I mean, it was ge-- and to actually pull that off in the 1980s was not trivial! Today, it would be a piece of cake. And then there was the IDG update, you know, the Good News memos, there was the 10-year lunch, the 20-year trips around the world, there were a lot of really rich benefits that, you know, in and of themselves maybe not a huge deal, but that was the culture that he set. >> Yeah, there was no question that if you talked to anybody who worked in this company over, say, the last 50 years, you were gonna get the same kind of stories. I've been kind of amazed, I'm going around, you know, marketing the book, talking about the book at various events, and the deep affection for this guy that still holds five years after he died, it's just remarkable. You don't really see that with the CEO class, there's a couple, you know, Steve Jobs left a great legacy of creativity, he was not a wonderful guy to his employees, but Pat McGovern, people loved this guy, and they st-- I would be signing books and somebody'd say, "Oh, I've been at IDG for 27 years and I remember all of this," and "I've been there 33 years," and there's a real longevity to this impact that he had on people. >> Now, the book was just, it was not just sort of a biography on McGovern, it was really about lessons from a leader and an entrepreneur and a media mogul who grew this great company in this culture that we can apply, you know, as business people and business leaders. Just to give you a sense of what Pat McGovern did, he really didn't take any outside capital, he did a little bit of, you know, public offering with IDG Books, but, really, you know, no outside capital, it was completely self-funded. He built a $3.8 billion empire, 300 publications, 280 million readers, and I think it was almost 100 or maybe even more, 100 countries. And so, that's an-- like you were, used the word remarkable, that is a remarkable achievement for a self-funded company. >> Yeah, Pat had a very clear vision of how, first of all, Pat had a photographic memory and if you were a manager in the company, you got a chance to sit in meetings with Pat and if you didn't know the numbers better than he did, which was a tough challenge, you were in trouble! 'Cause he knew everything, and so, he was really a numbers-focused guy and he understood that, you know, his best way to make profit was to not be looking for outside funding, not to have to share the wealth with investors, that you could do this yourself if you ran it tightly, you know, I called it in the book a 'loose-tight organization,' loose meaning he was a deep believer in decentralization, that every market needed its own leadership because they knew the market, you know, in Austria or in Russia or wherever, better than you would know it from a headquarters in Boston, but you also needed that tightness, a firm grip on the finances, you needed to know what was going on with each of the budgets or you were gonna end up in big trouble, which a lot of companies find themselves in. >> Well, and, you know, having worked there, I mean, essentially, if you made your numbers and did so ethically, and if you just kind of followed some of the corporate rules, which we'll talk about, he kind of left you alone. You know, you could, you could pretty much do whatever you wanted, you could stay in any hotel, you really couldn't fly first class, and we'll maybe talk about that-- >> Right. >> But he was a complex man, I mean, he was obviously wealthy, he was a billionaire, he was very generous, but at the same time he was frugal, you know, he drove, you know, a little, a car that was, you know, unremarkable, and we had buy him a car. He flew coach, and I remember one time, I was at a United flight, and I was, I had upgraded, you know, using my miles, and I sat down and right there was Lore McGovern, and we both looked at each other and said right at the same time, "I upgraded!" (laughs) Because Pat never flew up front, but he would always fly with a stack of newspapers in the seat next to him. >> Yeah, well, woe to, you were lucky he wasn't on the plane and spotted you as he was walking past you into coach, because he was not real forgiving when he saw people, people would hide and, you know, try to avoid him at all cost. And, I mean, he was a big man, Pat was 6'3", you know, 250 lbs. at least, built like a linebacker, so he didn't fit into coach that well, and he wasn't flying, you know, the shuttle to New York, he was flyin' to Beijing, he was flyin' to Moscow, he was going all over the world, squeezing himself into these seats. Now, you know, full disclosure, as he got older and had, like, probably 10 million air miles at his disposal, he would upgrade too, occasionally, for those long-haul flights, just 'cause he wanted to be fresh when he would get off the plane. But, yeah, these are legends about Pat that his frugality was just pure legend in the company, he owned this, you know, several versions of that dark blue suit, and that's what you would see him in. He would never deviate from that. And, but, he had his patterns, but he understood the impact those patterns had on his employees and on his customers. >> I wanna get into some of the lessons, because, really, this is what the book is all about, the heart of it. And you mentioned, you know, one, and we're gonna tell from others, but you really gotta stay close to the customer, that was one of the 10 corporate values, and you remember, he used to go to the meetings and he'd sometimes randomly ask people to recite, "What's number eight?" (laughs) And you'd be like, oh, you'd have your cheat sheet there. And so, so, just to give you a sense, this man was an entrepreneur, he started the company in 1964 with a database that he kind of pre-sold, he was kind of the sell, design, build type of mentality, he would pre-sold this thing, and then he started Computerworld in 1967, so it was really only a few years after he launched the company that he started the Computerworld, and other than Data Nation, there was nothing there, huge pent-up demand for that type of publication, and he caught lightning in a bottle, and that's really how he funded, you know, the growth. >> Yeah, oh, no question. Computerworld became, you know, the bible of the industry, it became a cash cow for IDG, you know, but at the time, it's so easy to look in hindsight and say, oh, well, obviously. But when Pat was doing this, one little-known fact is he was an editor at a publication called Computers and Automation that was based in Newton, Massachusetts and he kept that job even after he started IDC, which was the original company in 1964. It was gonna be a research company, and it was doing great, he was seeing the build-up, but it wasn't 'til '67 when he started Computerworld, that he said, "Okay, now this is gonna be a full-time gig for me," and he left the other publication for good. But, you know, he was sorta hedging his bets there for a little while. >> And that's where he really gained respect for what we'll call the 'Chinese Wallet,' the, you know, editorial versus advertising. We're gonna talk about that some more. So I mentioned, 1967, Computerworld. So he launched in 1964, by 1971, he was goin' to Japan, we're gonna talk about the China Stories as well, so, he named the company International Data Corp, where he was at a little spot in Newton, Mass.-- >> Right, right. >> So, he had a vision. You said in your book, you mention, how did this gentleman get it so right for so long? And that really leads to some of the leadership lessons, and one of them in the book was, sort of, have a mission, have a vision, and really, Pat was always talking about information, about information technology, in fact, when Wine for Dummies came out, it kind of created a little friction, that was really off the center. >> Or Wine for Dummies, or Sex for Dummies! >> Yeah, Sex for Dummies, boy, yeah! >> With, that's right, Ruth Westheimer-- >> Dr. Ruth Westheimer. >> But generally speaking, Glenn, he was on that mark, he really didn't deviate from that vision. >> Yeah, no, it was very crucial to the development of the company that he got people to, you know, buy into that mission, because the mission was everything. And he understood, you know, he had the numbers, but he also saw what was happening out there, from the 1960s, when IBM mainframes filled a room, and, you know, only the high priests of data centers could touch them. He had a vision for, you know, what was coming next and he started to understand that there would be many facets to this information about information technology, it wasn't gonna be boring, if anything, it was gonna be the story of our age and he was gonna stick to it and sell it. >> And, you know, timing is everything, but so is, you know, Pat was a workaholic and had an amazing mind, but one of the things I learned from the book, and you said this, Pat Kenealy mentioned it, all American industrial and social revolutions have had a media company linked to them, Crane and automobiles, Penton and energy, McGraw-Hill and aerospace, Annenberg, of course, and TV, and in technology, it was IDG. >> Yeah, he, like I said earlier, he really was a key figure in the development of this industry and it was, you know, one of the key things about that, a lot publications that came and went made the mistake of being platform or, you know, vertical market specific. And if that market changed, and it was inevitably gonna change in high tech, you were done. He never, you know, he never married himself to some specific technology cycle. His idea was the audience was not gonna change, the audience was gonna have to roll with this, so, the company, IDG, would produce publications that got that, you know, Computerworld was actually a little bit late to the PC game, but eventually got into it and we tracked the different cycles, you know, things in tech move in sine waves, they come and go. And Pat never was, you know, flustered by that, he could handle any kind of changes from the mainframes down to the smartphone when it came. And so, that kind of flexibility, and ability to adjust to markets, really was unprecedented in that particular part of the market. >> One of the other lessons in the book, I call it 'nation-building,' and Pat shared with you that, look, that you shared, actually, with your readers, if you wanna do it right, you've gotta be on the ground, you've gotta be there. And the China story is one that I didn't know about how Pat kind of talked his way into China, tell us, give us a little summary of that story. >> Sure, I love that story because it's so Pat. It was 1978, Pat was in Tokyo on a business trip, one of his many business trips, and he was gonna be flying to Moscow for a trade show. And he got a flight that was gonna make a stopover in Beijing, which in those days was called Peking, and was not open to Americans. There were no US and China diplomatic relations then. But Pat had it in mind that he was going to get off that plane in Beijing and see what he could see. So that meant that he had to leave the flight when it landed in Beijing and talk his way through the customs as they were in China at the time with folks in the, wherever, the Quonset hut that served for the airport, speaking no English, and him speaking no Chinese, he somehow convinced these folks to give him a day pass, 'cause he kept saying to them, "I'm only in transit, it's okay!" (laughs) Like, he wasn't coming, you know, to spy on them on them or anything. So here's this massive American businessman in his dark suit, and he somehow gets into downtown Beijing, which at the time was mostly bicycles, very few cars, there were camels walking down the street, they'd come with traders from Mongolia. The people were still wearing the drab outfits from the Mao era, and Pat just spent the whole day wandering around the city, just soaking it in. He was that kind of a world traveler. He loved different cultures, mostly eastern cultures, and he would pop his head into bookstores. And what he saw were people just clamoring to get their hands on anything, a newspaper, a magazine, and it just, it didn't take long for the light bulb to go on and said, this is a market we need to play in. >> He was fascinated with China, I, you know, as an employee and a business P&L manager, I never understood it, I said, you know, the per capita spending on IT in China was like a dollar, you know? >> Right. >> And I remember my lunch with him, my 10-year lunch, he said, "Yeah, but, you know, there's gonna be a huge opportunity there, and yeah, I don't know how we're gonna get the money out, maybe we'll buy a bunch of tea and ship it over, but I'm not worried about that." And, of course, he meets Hugo Shong, which is a huge player in the book, and the home run out of China was, of course, the venture capital, which he started before there was even a stock market, really, to exit in China. >> Right, yeah. No, he was really a visionary, I mean, that word gets tossed around maybe more than it should, but Pat was a bonafide visionary and he saw things in China that were developing that others didn't see, including, for example, his own board, who told him he was crazy because in 1980, he went back to China without telling them and within days he had a meeting with the ministry of technology and set up a joint venture, cost IDG $250,000, and six months later, the first issue of China Computerworld was being published and within a couple of years it was the biggest publication in China. He said, told me at some point that $250,0000 investment turned into $85 million and when he got home, that first trip, the board was furious, they said, "How can you do business with the commies? You're gonna ruin our brand!" And Pat said, "Just, you know, stick with me on this one, you're gonna see." And the venture capital story was just an offshoot, he saw the opportunity in the early '90s, that venture in China could in fact be a huge market, why not help build it? And that's what he did. >> What's your take on, so, IDG sold to, basically, Chinese investors. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of bittersweet, but in the same time, it's symbolic given Pat's love for China and the Chinese people. There's been a little bit of criticism about that, I know that the US government required IDC to spin out its supercomputer division because of concerns there. I'm always teasing Michael Dow that at the next IDG board meeting, those Lenovo numbers, they're gonna look kinda law. (laughs) But what are your, what's your, what are your thoughts on that, in terms of, you know, people criticize China in terms of IP protections, etc. What would Pat have said to that, do you think? >> You know, Pat made 130 trips to China in his life, that's, we calculated at some point that just the air time in planes would have been something like three and a half to four years of his life on planes going to China and back. I think Pat would, today, acknowledge, as he did then, that China has issues, there's not, you can't be that naive. He got that. But he also understood that these were people, at the end of the day, who were thirsty and hungry for information and that they were gonna be a player in the world economy at some point, and that it was crucial for IDG to be at the forefront of that, not just play later, but let's get in early, let's lead the parade. And I think that, you know, some part of him would have been okay with the sale of the company to this conglomerate there, called China Oceanwide. Clearly controversial, I mean, but once Pat died, everyone knew that the company was never gonna be the same with the leader who had been at the helm for 50 years, it was gonna be a tough transition for whoever took over. And I think, you know, it's hard to say, certainly there's criticism of things going on with China. China's gonna be the hot topic page one of the New York Times almost every single day for a long time to come. I think Pat would have said, this was appropriate given my love of China, the kind of return on investment he got from China, I think he would have been okay with it. >> Yeah, and to invoke the Ben Franklin maxim, "Trading partners seldom wage war," and so, you know, I think Pat would have probably looked at it that way, but, huge home run, I mean, I think he was early on into Baidu and Alibaba and Tencent and amazing story. I wanna talk about decentralization because that was always something that was just on our minds as employees of IDG, it was keep the corporate staff lean, have a flat organization, if you had eight, 10, 12 direct reports, that was okay, Pat really meant it when he said, "You're the CEO of your own business!" Whether that business was, you know, IDC, big company, or a manager at IDC, where you might have, you know, done tens of millions of dollars, but you felt like a CEO, you were encouraged to try new things, you were encouraged to fail, and fail fast. Their arch nemesis of IDG was Ziff Davis, they were a command and control, sort of Bill Ziff, CMP to a certain extent was kind of the same way out of Manhasset, totally different philosophies and I think Pat never, ever even came close to wavering from that decentralization philosophy, did he? >> No, no, I mean, I think that the story that he told me that I found fascinating was, he didn't have an epiphany that decentralization would be the mechanism for success, it was more that he had started traveling, and when he'd come back to his office, the memos and requests and papers to sign were stacked up two feet high. And he realized that he was holding up the company because he wasn't there to do this and that at some point, he couldn't do it all, it was gonna be too big for that, and that's when the light came on and said this decentralization concept really makes sense for us, if we're gonna be an international company, which clearly was his mission from the beginning, we have to say the people on the ground in those markets are the people who are gonna make the decisions because we can't make 'em from Boston. And I talked to many people who, were, you know, did a trip to Europe, met the folks in London, met the folks in Munich, and they said to a person, you know, it was so ahead of its time, today it just seems obvious, but in the 1960s, early '70s, it was really not a, you know, a regular leadership tenet in most companies. The command and control that you talked about was the way that you did business. >> And, you know, they both worked, but, you know, from a cultural standpoint, clearly IDG and IDC have had staying power, and he had the three-quarter rule, you talked about it in your book, if you missed your numbers three quarters in a row, you were in trouble. >> Right. >> You know, one quarter, hey, let's talk, two quarters, we maybe make some changes, three quarters, you're gone. >> Right. >> And so, as I said, if you were makin' your numbers, you had wide latitude. One of the things you didn't have latitude on was I'll call it 'pay to play,' you know, crossing that line between editorial and advertising. And Pat would, I remember I was at a meeting one time, I'm sorry to tell these stories, but-- >> That's okay. (laughs) >> But we were at an offsite meeting at a woods meeting and, you know, they give you a exercise, go off and tell us what the customer wants. Bill Laberis, who's the editor-in-chief at Computerworld at the time, said, "Who's the customer?" And Pat said, "That's a great question! To the publisher, it's the advertiser. To you, Bill, and the editorial staff, it's the reader. And both are equally important." And Pat would never allow the editorial to be compromised by the advertiser. >> Yeah, no, he, there was a clear barrier between church and state in that company and he, you know, consistently backed editorial on that issue because, you know, keep in mind when we started then, and I was, you know, a journalist hoping to, you know, change the world, the trade press then was considered, like, a little below the mainstream business press. The trade press had a reputation for being a little too cozy with the advertisers, so, and Pat said early on, "We can't do that, because everything we have, our product is built, the brand is built on integrity. And if the reader doesn't believe that what we're reporting is actually true and factual and unbiased, we're gonna lose to the advertisers in the long run anyway." So he was clear that that had to be the case and time and again, there would be conflict that would come up, it was just, as you just described it, the publishers, the sales guys, they wanted to bring in money, and if it, you know, occasionally, hey, we could nudge the editor of this particular publication, "Take it a little bit easier on this vendor because they're gonna advertise big with us," Pat just would always back the editor and say, "That's not gonna happen." And it caused, you know, friction for sure, but he was unwavering in his support. >> Well, it's interesting because, you know, Macworld, I think, is an interesting case study because there were sort of some backroom dealings and Pat maneuvered to be able to get the Macworld, you know, brand, the license for that. >> Right. >> But it caused friction between Steve Jobs and the writers of Macworld, they would write something that Steve Jobs, who was a control freak, couldn't control! >> Yeah. (laughs) >> And he regretted giving IDG the license. >> Yeah, yeah, he once said that was the worst decision he ever made was to give the license to Pat to, you know, Macworlld was published on the day that Mac was introduced in 1984, that was the deal that they had and it was, what Jobs forgot was how important it was to the development of that product to have a whole magazine devoted to it on day one, and a really good magazine that, you know, a lot of people still lament the glory days of Macworld. But yeah, he was, he and Steve Jobs did not get along, and I think that almost says a lot more about Jobs because Pat pretty much got along with everybody. >> That church and state dynamic seems to be changing, across the industry, I mean, in tech journalism, there aren't any more tech journalists in the United States, I mean, I'm overstating that, but there are far fewer than there were when we were at IDG. You're seeing all kinds of publications and media companies struggling, you know, Kara Swisher, who's the greatest journalist, and Walt Mossberg, in the tech industry, try to make it, you know, on their own, and they couldn't. So, those lines are somewhat blurring, not that Kara Swisher is blurring those lines, she's, you know, I think, very, very solid in that regard, but it seems like the business model is changing. As an observer of the markets, what do you think's happening in the publishing world? >> Well, I, you know, as a journalist, I'm sort of aghast at what's goin' on these days, a lot of my, I've been around a long time, and seeing former colleagues who are no longer in journalism because the jobs just started drying up is, it's a scary prospect, you know, unlike being the enemy of the people, the first amendment is pretty important to the future of the democracy, so to see these, you know, cutbacks and newspapers going out of business is difficult. At the same time, the internet was inevitable and it was going to change that dynamic dramatically, so how does that play out? Well, the problem is, anybody can post anything they want on social media and call it news, and the challenge is to maintain some level of integrity in the kind of reporting that you do, and it's more important now than ever, so I think that, you know, somebody like Pat would be an important figure if he was still around, in trying to keep that going. >> Well, Facebook and Google have cut the heart out of, you know, a lot of the business models of many media companies, and you're seeing sort of a pendulum swing back to nonprofits, which, I understand, speaking of folks back in the mid to early 1900s, nonprofits were the way in which, you know, journalism got funded, you know, maybe it's billionaires buying things like the Washington Post that help fund it, but clearly the model's shifting and it's somewhat unclear, you know, what's happening there. I wanted to talk about another lesson, which, Pat was the head cheerleader. So, I remember, it was kind of just after we started, the Computerworld's 20th anniversary, and they hired the marching band and they walked Pat and Mary Dolaher walked from 5 Speen Street, you know, IDG headquarters, they walked to Computerworld, which was up Old, I guess Old Connecticut Path, or maybe it was-- >> It was actually on Route 30-- >> Route 30 at the time, yeah. And Pat was dressed up as the drum major and Mary as well, (laughs) and he would do crazy things like that, he'd jump out of a plane with IDG is number one again, he'd post a, you know, a flag in Antarctica, IDG is number one again! It was just a, it was an amazing dynamic that he had, always cheering people on. >> Yeah, he was, he was, when he called himself the CEO, the Chief Encouragement Officer, you mentioned earlier the Good News notes. Everyone who worked there, at some point received this 8x10" piece of paper with a rainbow logo on it and it said, "Good News!" And there was a personal note from Pat McGovern, out of the blue, totally unexpected, to thank you and congratulate you on some bit of work, whatever it was, if you were a reporter, some article you wrote, if you were a sales guy, a sale that you made, and people all over the world would get these from him and put them up in their cubicles because it was like a badge of honor to have them, and people, I still have 'em, (laughs) you know, in a folder somewhere. And he was just unrelenting in supporting the people who worked there, and it was, the impact of that is something you can't put a price tag on, it's just, it stays with people for all their lives, people who have left there and gone on to four or five different jobs always think fondly back to the days at IDG and having, knowing that the CEO had your back in that manner. >> The legend of, and the legacy of Patrick J. McGovern is not just in IDG and IDC, which you were interested in in your book, I mean, you weren't at IDC, I was, and I was started when I saw the sort of downturn and then now it's very, very successful company, you know, whatever, $3-400 million, throwin' off a lot of profits, just to decide, I worked for every single CEO at IDC with the exception of Pat McGovern, and now, Kirk Campbell, the current CEO, is moving on Crawford del Prete's moving into the role of president, it's just a matter of time before he gets CEO, so I will, and I hired Crawford-- >> Oh, you did? (laughs) >> So, I've worked for and/or hired every CEO of IDC except for Pat McGovern, so, but, the legacy goes beyond IDG and IDC, great brands. The McGovern Brain Institute, 350 million, is that right? >> That's right. >> He dedicated to studying, you know, the human brain, he and Lore, very much involved. >> Yup. >> Typical of Pat, he wasn't just, "Hey, here's the check," and disappear. He was goin' in, "Hey, I have some ideas"-- >> Oh yeah. >> Talk about that a little. >> Yeah, well, this was a guy who spent his whole life fascinated by the human brain and the impact technology would have on the human brain, so when he had enough money, he and Lore, in 2000, gave a $350 million gift to MIT to create the McGovern Institute for Brain Research. At the time, the largest academic gift ever given to any university. And, as you said, Pat wasn't a guy who was gonna write a check and leave and wave goodbye. Pat was involved from day one. He and Lore would come and sit in day-long seminars listening to researchers talk about about the most esoteric research going on, and he would take notes, and he wasn't a brain scientist, but he wanted to know more, and he would talk to researchers, he would send Good News notes to them, just like he did with IDG, and it had same impact. People said, "This guy is a serious supporter here, he's not just showin' up with a checkbook." Bob Desimone, who's the director of the Brain Institute, just marveled at this guy's energy level, that he would come in and for days, just sit there and listen and take it all in. And it just, it was an indicator of what kind of person he was, this insatiable curiosity to learn more and more about the world. And he wanted his legacy to be this intersection of technology and brain research, he felt that this institute could cure all sorts of brain-related diseases, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. And it would then just make a better future for mankind, and as corny as that might sound, that was really the motivator for Pat McGovern. >> Well, it's funny that you mention the word corny, 'cause a lot of people saw Pat as somewhat corny, but, as you got to know him, you're like, wow, he really means this, he loves his company, the company was his extended family. When Pat met his untimely demise, we held a crowd chat, crowdchat.net/thankspat, and there's a voting mechanism in there, and the number one vote was from Paul Gillen, who posted, "Leo Durocher said that nice guys finish last, Pat McGovern proved that wrong." >> Yeah. >> And I think that's very true and, again, awesome legacy. What number book is this for you? You've written a lot of books. >> This is number 13. >> 13, well, congratulations, lucky 13. >> Thank you. >> The book is Fast Forward-- >> Future Forward. >> I'm sorry, Future Forward! (laughs) Future Forward by Glenn Rifkin. Check out, there's a link in the YouTube down below, check that out and there's some additional information there. Glenn, congratulations on getting the book done, and thanks so much for-- >> Thank you for having me, this is great, really enjoyed it. It's always good to chat with another former IDGer who gets it. (laughs) >> Brought back a lot of memories, so, again, thanks for writing the book. All right, thanks for watching, everybody, we'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante. You're watchin' theCube. (electronic music)

>> Live from Bahrain, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit, Bahrain. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back everyone, we're here live in Bahrain, for exclusive Amazon coverage. It's theCUBE's first time in the region, we're excited to be here as AWS Public Sector Summit and commercial opportunities are expanding Amazon has announced and will be up and running in 2019 with a new region here in Bahrain in the middle east. It will generate a lot of activity, we expect it to create a tsunami of innovation, data information is the new oil. We're here covering it, this is going to be the beginning of more coverage here in the area for theCUBE. And we're meeting new people, and then we've run into some luminaries, CUBE alumnus, and our next guest is a CUBE alumna, John Wood is the CEO of Telos, also been on theCUBE many times as you might know, is an expert in cybersecurity, just an overall knowledgeable and visionary entrepreneur, good to see you thanks for joining us today. >> Thanks John, I really appreciate it. >> So you're part of the entourage with Teresa and the team as she comes in a cross-pollinates Amazon Web Services public sector seven, what she's done in Washington DC and beyond, here in the region, it's going to be a new formula that Bahrain and the people here have recognized. Like we were in a meeting yesterday, where you weren't pounding the table, but you looked very clearly at the Chief Executive Officer who reports to the king and the crown prince and you said, you don't really know yet, what you got, and you're a visionary, so and we've talked about this and so I want to get it out here on camera, this is a big freaking deal. >> It is. >> Can you explain why, and what your vision is and what will happen with Amazon, 'cause you've been a partner of AWS with Telos, you've been very successful, you've seen the moving parts, you've seen the impact of innovation. >> Yup, absolutely. >> What's your thoughts? >> So you know, the shot heard around the world back at the end of 2013 John was when the Central Intelligence Agency made the decision that the cloud was just secure enough for them. And that kind of made everybody around the world stand up and notice. So yesterday, when we were talking with all of the various people around economic development in Bahrain, you know I said the shot heard around the Middle East is that Amazon is located here in Bahrain. I think just like what happened in America, it's going to have a massive impact from a socio-economic point of view here in the Middle East and specifically in Bahrain. >> What are some of the things that you might expect to see, that they got to be ready for here? >> Well first of all, one thing I'll say is a marked difference from America is that the government here and the business environment here all has agreed it's important to move to the cloud. That in and of itself is a big, big difference than America. In America it's been a lot more fragmented and it's taken more time. I think here, I think the government and the industry is seeing the value of the cloud globally, and they're going to be able to move that much faster than even we did in America. >> They built a Formula 1 race track in 14 months, they don't have a lot of the baggage that America has in terms of older systems. I mean, more tech baggage, or tech legacy, older systems, older databases, kind of a clean sheet of paper. >> They have a bit of a clean sheet of paper, but they also do have legacy John. What they've also done though, is they've given themselves a two year time frame to move everything to the cloud. Now that in and of itself, having a beginning, a middle, and an end, is a really good thing because the journey's going to be relatively rapid and I think the uptick economically as a result is going to be rapid as well. >> So one of the things that you were also involved in here with Teresa and the local Bahrain government and entrepreneurs is you were here with General Keith Alexander, who had to leave last night, we had hoped to have him on theCUBE, four star general, head of the NSA, he's seen his shares of data and scale, he had a unique perspective. What are some of the things that you and General Alexander were discussing with the government here? Can you share with appropriate, some of the things you were talking about? >> I think we can apply best practices here, just like we applied back in America. I think the fact that they've gone to a cloud first policy is a really good thing, the next step I think is to find a standard that you can actually look to from a security point of view, 'cause with that standard you can then have a common lexicon. And that common lexicon allows you to share data between and amongst each other that much more quickly. >> You know, one of the things I overheard you over here and I kind of observed this, and I'm just going to throw it out there because we think the same way with theCUBE is that when you have a cloud model, the benefit of the cloud is you can just actually spin up another instance or thing. It's horizontally scalable, generally speaking. So as you run your business Telos with Amazon in the US and other areas, this is a new opportunity for you. It's almost rinse and repeat, just kind of plug in. And cloud gives you that benefit, so this kind of opens up the conversation of opportunities that Amazon will pull with them to Bahrain and the region. Do you agree with that? How do you see this pull that Amazon might have? >> I think what Amazon can do more than really any other cloud organizations is because they've been at it for such a long time, so much longer than the other cloud providers, they can bring best practices to the table, they can bring best technologies to the table, they can bring best partnerships to the table, which allows people to actually know with confidence that if they move to the cloud it's going to work, and it's going to be more secure. >> The other thing I will also point out at the end of that is then that Andy Jassy and Teresa also bring expertise. They'll do work here on behalf of citizens. >> Well absolutely, you know when Amazon makes a commitment to build a region over a 10 year period it's anywhere between a two to three billion dollar financial commitment to the region, so that in and of itself drives economic value into the region. >> So I got to ask you the tough question, which is obviously the one that's the elephant in the room, is instability in the region, potentially, how does digital disruption impact, say Bahrain and Middle East, you got Horizon, you got crypto-currency we know that markets kind of frothy and somewhat unethical in some areas, that's a red flag, but wants to be legitimate, cybersecurity, a big thing. This is your wheelhouse, cybersecurity, these new emerging areas, you got A.I. booming, you got cloud booming, got the notion these emerging tech, cybersecurity's at the center of the action. What does that mean for Amazon? What does that mean for stability in the region? What's the impact? What's your view on cybersecurity, Middle East, Bahrain, Amazon, can you share, can you unpack that? >> So John, that's an incredibly broad question, so thank you. So from my point of view, I can't deal with the political situations, what we can deal with is what we can control. And we know we can help control the security automation orchestration, we know it works. We've seen the most security conscious organization in the world adopt the security. We and Amazon are the security for the agencies cloud and we know that works. As it relates to the political situation I think here the ruling party understands that's an issue and they're working on it, and I can just leave that to them. >> But you're independent of that, you allow the scale piece on Amazon. And what do you hope to do in the region? What are some of your goals as a commercial opportunity with Bahrain announcing this partnership at the highest levels, this community here, young people want to work here. >> So I see it as a huge work force opportunity for everybody, number one. Number two, I think we can find a way to make sure that everybody can feel confident that it's going to work, so they can feel confident they can move their workload to the cloud. People in Kuwait can feel confident, people in Saudi Arabia can feel confident, and again, that confidence builds stability. With stability, with economic stability, there becomes political stability. That's the other point I'll make, is that at the end of the day, if you have the benefit of having the financial stability it helps in a lot of different ways. >> So what's your advice to the folks, if I had the king sitting here and the crown prince, we had a round table, what are some of the things that you would advise them from your experience, kind of looking back on your career and what you've done now knowing that the regions got a cultural and more of a different economic dynamic, what's your advice to the crown prince, the king, and folks trying to figure this out? >> From a cybersecurity perspective, I would want to do something similar, maybe not the same, but something similar to what the United States government did. When the US government decided to adopt a cybersecurity policy, the so called Cybersecurity Executive Order, there were two parts to it John, the first was cloud first which has been done here, and the second was to adopt the NIST Framework, the NIST Framework gave the common lexicon for all the cybersecurity professionals to be able to push their workloads to the cloud and then guys like me, what we do is, we push automation into that framework, which basically means we get out of the way of the mission and we help make the mission happen much more quickly. >> What about training and support? What's your impression of the economic development board, some of the work they're doing? Obviously they have a transition we heard, maybe some of them in a work force not yet mature, but they got programs in place. How do you see that developing? How would you put them on the progress bar vis-a-vis their aspiration? >> I think in general some of the work force issues that they have here are very similar to the work force issues we have in America. You know, in America, often when kids graduate from college there's a gap between what they get in terms of a degree and what we need in terms of a skill set, that kind of happens everywhere. I think that simple programs like apprenticeships; which have been around for a long time, can be very, very effective in terms of narrowing that gap so that when the kids come out we can actually put them to work and they don't have to be re-trained in the work force. I think that's a big opportunity. I also think there's a big opportunity to bring some of the people here into America to teach best practices, and then bring them back, that they can bring those best practices into the environments here, so they can have that work themselves here. >> What's your take on the eco-system, obviously here we heard start-ups are very active but there's a glass ceiling if you will because cloud's not yet here in full throttle, capital markets mechanics have not yet formed, but there's funds of funds they're just putting this in place, your assessment of the entrepreneurial landscape here. >> I think it's a small, but growing landscape. I think a key point to making an entrepreneurial company successful, you know I started the company back in 1991, which is many, many, many, many moons ago, but anyway, what I can remember is I worked so hard, seven days a week, the joke was it was nine to five, 9 am to 5 am, you're not here on Saturday don't bother coming on Sunday. So fundamentally there's a thing you got to do, what is it Ben Franklin used to say? It's about 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration. So hard work does help a lot. Not to say that we don't have that culture here, but I think in general-- >> They were hard working here. >> Entrepreneurial is all about making sure you do the work. >> One of my observations, they're hard working here, so I think that's a good sign. >> Absolutely. >> So let's go back and talk about this, your experience, you mentioned 1991, my first start-up was 1997, and so we've seen a few cycles, and as cycles come and go this one seems to be a bigger cycle in the sense of a lot of combining forces going on; you've got cloud scale, the role of data and now A.I. to automate, and honestly traditional stuff is kind of being moved to a whole 'nother operating model. Given that you've seen so many cycles, what have you learned from those cycles that you could apply here if you were an entrepreneur here, you're now going to do some business hopefully here I think with Amazon. And for people in government trying to get out of the way or figure out policy, given your cycle experience, these guys are jumping into a wave that's coming. >> I definitely have a point of view on this. So for years, back in the United States, I would have one customer, I'd go to this customer, and I'd say, hey, this other customer over here, they've done it this way, and this customer would say, I want to do it a different way. And I'm like, well then everybody's going to be out of sync. Well recently the CIA decided to publish a case study that talked about moving to the cloud and why they moved to the cloud. And the reason they published this case study was for something called reciprocity. I think if more governments, if more industries can work together from a standpoint of reciprocity, then we're going to be able to more quickly ascertain the threat, discover what the vulnerability is, and mitigate it. >> What specifically the reciprocity should they be working on? Data transfer, information, what are some of the specifics? >> I think a specific will be the NIST Framework as an example. The NIST Framework is made up of 1100 different controls, which are lots, and lots of different subsets of other controls around the world, whether you're talking about ISO, Gramm-Leach-Bliley, HIPAA, whatever, they're all derivations of a framework which basically is a common lexicon. So for me that's something that is very specific when I think they should consider here. >> So one of the things I wanted to get your thoughts before we end here, is your observations, as you look around here, you're seeing a cultural shift, a woman's on the supreme court in Bahrain, we went to the women's breakfast that Teresa Carlson held yesterday, packed house, they had to kick us out of our table, us guys. >> They did, they did. >> They got to make room for the workshop, great fireside chat with Mary Camarata, head of Analysts and corporate communication for Andy and Teresa, fireside chat, then they had breakouts, we didn't get kicked out, but we were asked to give up the table for the women to do the workshop. This was a robust, packed house. >> Not just packed John, it was also just positive, optimistic, happy, they see a future, they see possibilities, there was a lot of give and take, I didn't see any of the stuff that you read about, and I tell ya, this is my first time in the Middle East, my first time to come to Bahrain, and I'm so happy I've come, I'm so sad it took me almost 55 years to make it happen. >> Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like there's an opportunity bubbling that's going to be really big and legit, and I love the diversity here, it surprised me. My daughter, 21 years old, asked me, she said, dad can you, what's the women like over there? Because there's a perception around culture, around the role of women. Packed house yesterday for the Women in Tech Breakfast, inspirational speech by Teresa Carlson, great workshop here, you see women forcing function; cultural shift. >> Cultural shift, but also don't believe everything you read in the paper, right John? So we all know that you got to go sometimes to see what things are really like, and I'm really happy I came. It's a bubbling, growing, active, really active, really cool nightlife, really cool skyline very beautiful beaches, it's a great place. >> The ground truth always trumps fake news and innuendo. Of course theCUBE is bringing you all the action, we are here with entrepreneur, visionary, John Wood, CEO of Telos, a big strategic partner with Amazon, part of the cultural sea change with AWS, Amazon Web Services, announcing a region here in Bahrain, in the Middle East. I'm John Furrier your CUBE co-host, you can reach me on twitter @furrier, F-U-R-R-I-E-R, if you want to reach out and ping me on twitter any time. More coverage live here, in Bahrain, in the Middle East after this short break. (futuristic electronic music)

from Boston Massachusetts it's the cube covering wtg transform 2018 brought to you by Winslow technology group this is the cubes cover of wtg transform 2018 happy to welcome to the program the keynote speaker and first time on the program David singer who's the senior vice president and chief operating officer of storage at Dell EMC David great to see you great to see you Stu thanks for having me all right so I liked we talked a lot about transformation and boy there's a lot of transformations going on from the technology to the workforce you know security is top of my night 'm you know let's start there you know what is what is transformation mean in that with the customers that you're talking to these days transformation for our customers is delivering next generation business outcomes really ensuring that they could find a way to to remould their businesses for the digital economy and figure out how to drive tremendous amounts of value and they understand that it all starts with IT and being digital and so it's one of the key things that we hear from our customers as they as they engage with us and look to move forward yeah it's an interesting conversation because there's there's two things that have kind of struck me as a little bit funny lately number one is data is really important and to WoW intelligence is really going to transform all these environments and the reason I think you kind of agree with me we've been talking about these things for decades I mean you know you and I both started back at EMC back similar times when storing was really one of the main things you're doing but of course that data was very important in the eight years since I left EMC boy you know it's not like a storage isn't any less important but you know it's data and it's everywhere and it's distributed so we speak a little bit to you know the value of data to your customers and we'll keep going with that commerce date data is the next asset class you know and for our customers it should be their gold it's it's not how they just manage their business it's actually how they start making money we called ourselves a storage business and we probably did ourselves a disservice they want to engage and they want ensure their data safe and they want to figure out how to monetize it and monetizing it means retaining it moving it keeping it safe and then ensuring that you can inject it into the right applications and get the right the right knowledge and efficiency out of it and what we've seen in a storage industry over 18 years that the technologies keep changing applications have greater and greater demands there's more and more need to consume adjust and analyze this data and we need to keep up and we need to deliver more intelligent infrastructure and storage solutions that can move this data and help us help applications deliver tremendous performance let's talk about the company itself so when I think about Dell you know I think back you know even talk to my parents you know they know who Dell is they'd use Dell computers for many years over your shoulder this Fenway Park you know the club level is the Dell level you know you've got such a broad portfolio and your keynote you kind of put together this do you know comprehensive everything from Dell and Dell EMC and VMware and pivotal and everything but to you know the global companies or small companies what is you know what where does Dell sit in the picture I think I think the the merger has been a major transformation for the company itself we talk we evangelize transformations for other companies were undergoing one ourselves and the transformation we're undergoing is understanding what other companies needs and applying it to ourselves and drinking our own champagne and making it a reality the the brand Association is changing and customers are starting to realize that we can become the essential infrastructure provider and they could look to us to solve a holistic set of their needs as opposed to pinpoint so their needs and make it an easier journey themselves you spent a bunch of time talking about the operating model when we talk about cloud it's you know use the line actually we've used many times you know cloud is not a destination really is an operating model how does that impact the portfolio you know you're helping to put together really the long-term strategy so the first is the operating model is all about simplicity right we need to make infrastructure more simple for our customers and that means re-engaging and re-architecting our software stacks from the ground up to be more nimble more accessible via api's and other automation engines that that will really drive more value and allow IT professionals to spend more time partnering with the business to drive revenue as opposed to problem-solving and punching out bugs David that was what one of the knocks that competition of you know EMC back in the day always had was MC has a broad portfolio and leadership in many positions but simple was never the word to describe the the offerings how does del and LEM see from a storage perspective how will we be looking at that differently you know come a year or two from now and so I think that's a fair point it's a great point simplicity was probably not a great synonym for what we did but what we did was was accumulate a tremendous amount of intellectual property and assets that we've been able to mold and transform and adapt for the future well when the process of doing is making it simpler for customers to consume it and delivering and deploying it in simpler ways to make that to make it easier to choose and implement and what we're in the process doing is take the lessons of the past integrate the technology from the past and drive something that's going to be easier to understand and to drive value alright help connect the dots we're here at one of one of Dell's uh you know larger partners maybe not larger in size but you know very important partner when the Technology Group was a dell partner of the year for a couple of years what is that you know that simplification and you know change in the portfolio mean you know and how's the relationship changing with the channel so you know very fair the the channel community is extremely important to Dell and and we know that we've not made their lives very easy right they have they have sales engineers and sales sales professionals that are trying to deliver solutions and applications for customers and it's hard for them to choose which building blocks or which piece parts to build and by simplifying and putting together better better technologies and better intellectual properties that are easier for them to consume and understand make it easier for them to do their jobs and and our outcomes for their customers right when I focus a little bit on the customers you know what do you see some of the biggest challenges that they're facing in their business you know not not just from a storage standpoint but you know the business side sure well every business including our own is it's a balance of priorities right the customers know that they want to take their business forward they want to drive growth they want to drive profitability and there's so many different opportunities to go after and just how do you prioritize and and and trying to manage those discrete priorities and ideas and initiatives is is not easy and then implementing actions especially with an IT to go solve some of those problems is resource intensive right and so we need to do a better job of thinking about transformation and simplifying our structure to really really alright so you're an Operations guy you've you've got you know so some business background what one of the things I look at in my career is you know boy you know we've looked at the pace of change but you know technology is an enabler for you know how we change operations has been pretty amazing the last last 20 years of wondering if you have some ruminations on that as to you know what you've been seeing in your career and you know especially over the last you know five years or so yeah the the pace is confusing it really is you know at times we feel like we're moving at light speed and other times we feel like we're gonna crawl and I think the interesting aspect is it's it's a journey and every customer is approaching it differently there are some customers that are in the bleeding edge and looking for us to keep them on the bleeding edge and there are other customers that are that are more more steady in their operations and looking to take baby steps as they transform and it's been a really interesting challenge trying to solve and maximize outcomes for both those types of yeah absolutely I'd say it's usually it's it's dizzying and you need to be careful one of my favorite Ben Franklin lines is you know don't confuse activity with with progress because it's easy to chase the new shiny but you know what am I actually doing to drive the business and drive efficiency of what weird and can actually get any value out of the new shiny there are so many buzzwords that we have in our industry right now some of which customers consume can consume really easily and get a tremendous amount of value some that customers just are having a hard time understanding how they actually implement to get value yeah so you know what's the biggest threat for for businesses these days you talk about them going through transformation there there's everybody's concerned about you know - over the overuse term you're gonna be over eyes or Netflix or you know choose your point you know how do you balance I need to transform and move faster but you know I I don't want to be you know chasing my shadow yeah I think I think the person that had the perfect answer to that would be would be amazingly wealthy right now I think you know that's the dichotomy that we're trying to deal with and the industry has dealt with for a very very long time great point you know we talked about it's not always about chasing the technologies what's interesting you in the marketplace these days - I think that the pace of change in the pace of innovation has really kicked up it goes through cycles and right now the new technologies that are getting introduced by a lot of startup communities and and and and ourselves organically has been amazing and I love the innovative spirit that is coming back together as we formed Dell EMC and the new and the new company and the collaboration that we're seeing with the intellectual property across the family of companies delivers really exciting results right last thing I wanted to ask you really about the merger you know personally you've so you've been with you up from the EMC side of things you know there are many similarities and culture but some significant differences between these two cultures well you know what could you share you know so everything changes right I think we learned a long time ago at EMC and there's probably some acronym about change using the EMC letters you need to be able to adapt to change and both cultures we're very very much the same the businesses are very very interesting and I like to think of them and in a let ik metaphor right there are very different flywheels to the paces of the businesses we have we have a portion of our business that is a flier that spills really really fast and very and very transactional and we have another flywheel that is solution oriented and solution driven it drives a different speed and the miracle the mergers we've been able to figure out how to operate both those flywheel in the same ace David singer definitely the customer flywheels keep a lot of things going and the feedback from our users is one of the flywheels that keeps us going here at the cube so btran sure to check out all the content and as always you can reach us hitting us up on the website hit is up on social media and welcome your feedback so thank you so much for watching the Q

>> CUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018 brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBe's Ecosystem Partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage. Wait, we're surrounded by green. I've got two gentlemen from Veeam here. No, but we're not at VeeamON. We're at Cisco Live 2018 here in Orlando, happy to welcome back to the program Carey Stanton and Rob Emsley. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Ace too. >> All right, yeah, so I was with you guys not too long ago at the VeeamON conference. I had a lot of fun in Chicago, brought back some of the famous popcorn for my family, but we're here in Orlando, so way bigger convention center, 26,000 people. We're all walking a lot, talking a lot about networking in Multi-Cloud and everything there. Tell us a little bit about your experience here at the show and what you've taken. >> Yeah, it's great, thanks, Stu. We have as you may know a tier-one partnership with Cisco. We're a platinum sponsor at this event and we're here all around our relationships with them on their data protection with their hyper-flex and their 32-60 and S2-40 relationships and we continue to see rapid growth in the channel and we have a direct-dedicated team selling with them on a global basis, so here making a lot of new connections across their other business units. >> Rob, I see the Green Veeam booth at almost every show I go to. >> Absolutely. >> How's Cisco different from some of the other ones that we go to? >> Well, one of the the things that Chuck Robins talked about in his keynote yesterday was how they summarize the focus of the company, and there's two specific areas that Veeam works very closely with Cisco on. One is the powering the Multi-Cloud, and unlocking the power of data. Those are two big focuses for us. You remember in Chicago, we're all about Multi-Cloud, On-Premises, Manage Cloud, Software as a Service, the Public Cloud; that's the reality of where data lives, so we're very much in lock-step with Cisco. We've been working with Cisco for several years. We last year became available through their global price list, so we're actually finding that Cisco in the data sensor, especially when you think about conversion infrastructure and hyper-conversion infrastructure, it's an area where we can really compliment what they're doing with their opportunities. >> Yeah, Carey, it's interesting because we go a lot of shows and we're hearing a lot of similar themes. Even I think the last time I'd come to the Cisco Live US show was 2009. Applications and data, it's like, oh, come on, those are just bits running through our pipes. It's not really a big deal. Well, we're here in the DevNet zone. We're talking about how Cisco's been moving up the stacks, how they're enabling companies to build new application, do cool things with wireless and SD-WAN and everything like that. I'm sure you must be seeing big change in a lot of your infrastructure partners that fits, as Rob said, that power of data and where that fits. >> Yeah, we're seeing it across the board and what we like about the relationship we have with Cisco is they look to us as their data availability experts, right? That we go into the data center conversation and they bring us in as their subject-matter experts, and that's where I think they want to expand their footprint in their TEM with their product lines, and whether it's UCS or hyper-flex, and they're bringing us into those discussions because we solve a unique problem that they otherwise wouldn't be able to solve. >> Yeah, Rob, you saw the keynote yesterday. I think we were a little surprised. Diane Green comes walking out there. Cisco of course, big push in Cloud. I've actually interviewed a number of Cisco executives of things like AWS Reinvent and the like. Does the Veeam partnership with Cisco, do you touch on some of the Public Cloud pieces as well as? >> Yeah, very much so. One of the things that Cisco is very focused on is their SOS provider right to market, so that's an area where we've been very focused over the last probably three to four years, building out and enabling often our resellers to become managers providers themselves, but the reality is that you're starting to look at that Public Cloud tie-in, whether it be Microsoft Azure, whether it be AWS or IBM Cloud, so these are really all areas where we can provide an on-ramp to connect any Cisco data center environment and provide a relationship with the Public Cloud, provide that data management level layer. >> Yeah, I think back. Cisco really helped a lot of the channel community mature their market. Went from being the silo network to building data center businesses back eight years ago when we started talking about conversion infrastructure. Today, this week I've interviewed Presidio and WWT. They're talking a lot about how they're helping customers, enabling that Cloud. I'd love to hear your perspectives on the maturation of the channel and how they fit in this multi-cloud world. >> Yeah, I mean, if you look at Veeam, where there are 55,000 channel partners our brand promises to remain a 100% channel-driven company, but having these relationships that are primary Cisco-predominant partners, like WWT, Presidio, ePlus, I think it's just opening up discussions that we otherwise wouldn't have had, and we're seeing 50% of the opportunities that we're closing in the field are Cisco-led opportunities that are being driven from these new channel partners, and so again, I think this is the one plus one equals three story that we talk a lot about, that we're bringing a lot to the table and 50% of the opportunities for them and vice versa for us. >> Yeah, one of the things that we really like about Cisco is their focus on their partner community is extremely high, both from the enablement perspective and the educational perspective. They have a fully resourced partner marketing team, and we've been doing a lot of work with them. One of the things that Cisco has been transitioning to, it sort of fits into your space, is the whole move to marketing in a digital world and the whole need to change the type of content, and this type of content you can think about the video sort of assets becomes so much more important, so we've been working very closely with them to do joint digital marketing. It's very easy sometimes to do joint event-based marketing, but when you start getting into digital, you really have to think outside the box about how you bring two companies together to meet in the digital world, so we've been really doing that to drive joint opportunities, and that's been something that we've really got some some success with from our relationship with Cisco. >> In fact, you were just in Barcelona. >> Yeah, every year they run a marketing summit for their channel partners and ecosystem partners, and we actually won the Cisco marketing innovation award for a digital marketing always on campaign slope, just full of assets for joint digital, for joint Cisco and Veeam customers. >> Congratulations, I did see some of that on some of the social media. Yeah, it's interesting to look at how marketing changes in this new digital world. I ask every CMO I talk to these days is to, "How is digital changing the way things happen?" >> Yeah, and you mentioned our other infrastructure partners and there's no other partner that we've worked with at the size of Cisco that embraced it day one, so they look to Veeam as, "Okay, we're going "to work with Veeam, we're going to go deeper, "we're going to bring them on our global prices," and day one they were, "How can we get intertwined "into what Veeam does extremely well as our digital marketing machine?" And just from the get-go they've just continued to accelerate through that process. >> Yeah, one of the things I know every partner loves when they come to an event like this, there's a lot of customers here. Give us a little insight if you can, either specific examples or give us some of the themes you're hearing from customers at the show. What's top of mind? What're some of the biggest challenges that they're facing today? >> Yeah, I mean, I think what they're looking at doing is from a refresh of legacy backup solutions and replication solutions into modernizing their data center, and so they're looking to Cisco as their experts through the last decade plus, and now that Veeam is tied directly in with Cisco in some of those relationships, so it's from a refresh standpoint, from a modernizing their data center to the hybrid Cloud strategies that it's intertwined. We fit very well into those discussions, and we're seeing our customers come to us in these large ELAs, where Cisco is bringing us in as part of those discussions, so again, where otherwise we would have had a hard time getting into it, their customers are coming and saying, "What is the relevancy? "Should I really be looking at this," and Cisco's backing up those discussions. >> Certainly, to tap down on the data sensor, conversion infrastructure and hyper-conversion infrastructure is top of mind for a lot of the customers that come in by the booth. Certainly, which works well for us, because some of our relationships with our other storage alliance partners, whether it be Pure or NetOut, big partners of Cisco, so rather than one plus one equals three, it's one plus one plus one equals five quite often. We're going together as a group in order to go after opportunities, so that's definitely an area. If you think about conversion, IP Converge, it's always highly virtualized, so that plays very well to where we've built the company from: a big focus on virtual machine availability, but we're just more moving that now to the whole concept of data management across a Multi-Cloud world. >> Yeah, absolutely. One of the things we talk at all the shows is the pace of change and how receptive are customers to making changes. What are you hearing from the customers here? The storage market has long been it's sticky, it's a little bit entrenched, making changes, and networking we used to measure in decades as to you roll this out and then I'll wait for the next major speed bump before we'll do that, and you'll roll that out over years. Today, we think things are moving faster, but we'd love to hear points or counterpoints that you're hearing. >> Well, I think that the customers are looking to Cisco, indirectly to Veeam from removing complexity, and I think what they've seen in the past is they've deployed solutions that have bogged down their process. They look to the Cloud as an agile environment and they look back with their Legacy systems that they know they can't continue, and so from my standpoint, the customers that we talk to consistently is, "Are you gonna be the platform that's gonna allow me "to embrace a hybrid Cloud and to remove the complexity "that I have and to be agile," and so that's constantly what the Veeam messaging is solving, right? Mission critical backup and recovery workloads and doing it at a fraction of the cost and accelerating that Veeam speed. >> Yeah, I mean, if you just take the Legacy backup market, Legacy back up installed base, it seems that the openness to change is greater now than I've ever seen it, and you know I've been playing around in this space for quite a few years, but certainly recently we've found the openness to people to look for something new. Our friends that gotten it always used to say the three things that people worry about, the three Cs: Cost, complexity, and capabilities, and those are still very much top of mind around what causes a customer to say, "Hey, what I've been doing for the last several years "hasn't quite been getting it done for me." I think the big change is that backup as an insurance policy is no longer good enough. I think the ability to leverage your backup infrastructure and the data contained within it is really driving people to think about, that's more of a value to me than simply having an insurance policy. >> Absolutely, backup was never enough. We do backup, I need to restore, but it's about that data. Want to give you the opportunity. Veeam is I think we said kind of a tweener. You're not what I would consider an old company. You've always been a software company, born in the virtualization age, but there's a bunch of newer developer focused and Cloud-native. How does Veeam stay and fight and compete against some of the new ones coming after this multi-billion dollar market? >> Want to take that? >> Yeah, well, I think that we pride ourselves on innovation. We pride ourselves on iterating very quickly, and we pride ourselves on adhering to our NPS score of 73, where there at 300,000 customers, and what we are gonna continue on our path, on what's made us successful, and we know that there's always competition. There's lots of VC money out there, and it's not that we're looking away from what the competition is doing. It's that we believe with our 4000 customers a month, our 133 customers that we close on a daily basis across all segments of SNB, commercial, and enterprise is indicative that our strategy is working. We're not going to stray away. We're just going to look to partners like Cisco and others to expand our target market, but stay true to the solution that we've provided in that virtualization environment. You were at VeeamON. You saw the announcements that we're making to support additional workloads and additional environments in the days to come. >> Yeah, I think our ability to evolve and adapt is second to none, and some of that is just based upon the structure of the company. We're still private, we're still pretty much driving our own growth, and I think that allows us to make decisions quickly and very strategically to allow us to go into the areas that I think people instinctively know what is needed to evolve in this space around supporting multi-Cloud, supporting data as an asset, leveraging it as an asset, and I think that's where we've been fueling, both in an engineering perspective, in a capacity to meet with customers and grow, and that's certainly what's going to I think sustain us as we keep going forward. >> All right, gentlemen, I want to give you a final word as to key takeaways you see here from Cisco Live 2018. >> That we will be here for the duration of the time, and our relationship with Cisco will continue to expand, and that we look forward to meeting everyone at the Veeam booth and walking through our product solutions and meeting the Veeam team and answering any questions they may have, but we're thrilled to be part of the Cisco family, and hopefully, again, in the years to come that we'll just continue to expand our relationship. >> And I'll leave you with an African proverb. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. >> Absolutely. Rob Emsley, Carey Stanton, always a pleasure to catch up with you. I'll leave with the final aphorism of my own, which is, never confuse activity with progress. Ben Franklin, so I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more coverage here from Cisco Live 2018. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

kind of amazing inspire when I step back and look at what our customers are doing with our technology and you know we have hundreds of technical sessions here where we get in-depth you know as we've always done that historically you know he MC worlds but we're also taking a broader view and saying hey you know what's what's this really all about what's the impact on the world that the most creative of people from Leonardo da Vinci to Einstein Ben Franklin but Steve Jobs and Ada Lovelace whoever they may be all love of the humanities and the science they stand at that intersection of sort of liberal arts technology and that's so important in today's this country is a very special country to immigrants if you work hard and if you're willing to apply yourself and I'm a product of that hard work and now as an Indian American now living in California so I feel very fortunate for all that both the country and people who invested in me over the last many decades have helped me see the human progress is indeed possible through technology and this is the best showcase possible and when you can enable human progress which cuts across boundaries of nationality any other kind I think we are the winning streak service dog training program is built to have dogs help veterans in assimilation and help them with daily activities and post-traumatic stress all sorts of different things and they're different those are therapy dogs so those are dogs that will go everywhere with someone and really take care of them it's a beautiful beautiful donation and experience for the veterans to be able to have that [Music]

welcome to Las Vegas everybody watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage my name is Dave Boehne on time student Leena man he with my co-host Keith Townsend I'm Lisa Meredith John Sawyer coverage of Dell technologies world 2018 thanks so much for having us here and thanks for joining us on the Q how great to be here thank you guys for all the great coverage you always do a wonderful job [Music] loads of people here 14,000 in attendance 6500 partners analysts press you name it it's here talking about all things transformation we have this incredible platform that's been built over the last thirty years but now there are all these new enabling technologies that are going to take it much further as super powers are coming together the compute is now big enough the data is now volume is enough that we can do things never possible before obviously a very good couple of years since the Dell EMC merger it's really helped us there companies have come together right and and the and the offerings have come together together in a much more integrated fashion one of the most funny shows I mean obviously it's important for us to set our vision but you see things like the bean bags and sitting out there as a therapy job they're working so to be able to take a break and just spend some time breathing with some animals really really good and it didn't really experience the fun in the solutions Expo I'm a car guy so you know and talking about the way that we're taking plastic trash out of ocean and making art with it topped off as a great DX rail customer we have gold control try to beat the AI and TVs for a goal and it's a very cool demos vector right behind me we have our partner lounge we're hosting over 800 one-on-one meetings bdellium see executives or the partner executives so it's a combination of technical training networking executive meetings obviously product launches and announcements that we're bringing to market the opportunity to really cultivate it work globally in our global partner summit so it's a pretty active week the power of all of our capabilities we're powering up the modern data center the magnitude shift and what this portfolio can now do for our customers it's mind-boggling we've been talking for years about data as the rocket fuel of the economy and a business transformation and now we're really talking about data combined with those emerging technologies so things like AI IOT blockchain which are really taking that data and unlocking the business value data is the precious metal ISTE it's the crucial asset the whole world is gonna be wired everything is gonna have sensors outside of data center environments that's where all the data is gonna be produced and that's where decisions are going to be made and be all kinds of data if you've got structured data unstructured data and now it's important that we actually get all the disparate data into a format that can now be executed upon the business strategy really is the IT strategy and for that to happen we really have to bring our IT talent up the stack into where it's really enabling the business and that's usually at that application layer makes it more agile removes cost reduces complexity makes the planet more green we think we've got a long way to go in just building a private cloud making the data center if you like a cloud that's part number one freightin number two extending to the hybrid cloud the benefit of the fact that it is hosted in the cloud means that customers don't have anything to deploy and just like your smartphone you get all of the latest upgrades with no effort at all seamless process to scale quickly when you have new hotels coming online for example from a storage administrator perspective you can focus on much more strategic initiatives you don't have to do the day-to-day management you have to worry about what data sending where you don't to worry about how much of the different media types you've put into that array you just deploy it and it manages itself you can focus on more tasks this is the realest first step of actually trying to be truly autonomous storage it took so much time to do it before that I'd have to run my guys ragged for you know two or three weeks I'm like all right stay up overnight make sure at all companies that means value to customers that's money that they're saving directly there's a portfolio effect where customers look across everything that we're doing you say you know I don't really want to deal with 25 little companies but I wouldn't have a bigger relationship with Dell technologies and of course the dirty secret is is that almost all of the cool new apps are some ugly combination of new and old you don't want to have to have some other interface to go to it just has to be a natural extension of what your day-to-day job is you'll get this dashboard kind of help score across the entire environment then you'll see the red yellow green type markings on what to next the isolation piece of the solution is really where the value comes in you can use that for analysis of that data in that cleanroom to be able to detect early on problems that may be happening in your production environment the alternative one one product for everything we've always chosen not to go that path give them the flexibility to change whether it is nvme drives or any kind of SSD drives GPUs FPGAs the relevance of what we are doing has never been greater if they can sustain a degree of focus that allows them to pay down their debt do the financial engineering and Tom Suites our study I want you to take economics out of your decision about whether you want to go to the cloud or not because we can offer that capacity and capability depends a lot around the customer environment what kind of skill sets do they have are they willing to you know help you know go through some of that do-it-yourself type of process obviously Dell UMC services is there to help them you can't have mission-critical all this consolidations without data protection if they're smart enough to figure out where your backups are you're left with no protection so we really needed to isolate and put off network all that critical data we have built into power max the capabilities to do a direct backup from power max to a data domain and that gets you that second protection copy also on a protection storage it's no longer just about protecting the data but also about compliance and visibility it's about governance of the data it's really about management making it available so those are trends in which I think this this industry is not basically evolved over time in comes the Dell technologies world and you see this amazing dizzying array of new things and you're like wow that sounds great how do I do it right train them enable them package it for them I know the guys offer you where you can go in and so classroom kind of sympathy for today and see it in action before you actually purchase and use it we want them to engage in the hundreds of technical sessions that we have but still come away with I wish I could have gone to some more right and and so we we have all those online and and you know for us this is also big ears we're listening and we're learning we're hearing from our customers no I'm a little maybe a little smaller than some of your others but you still treat me like I'm the head you still listen to me I bring you ideas you say this fits so it's very very exciting to have a partner that does that with you do all of your reference Falls see it for yourself I mean I think quite a number of reference calls if people are in the same boat I was you know I'll scream share with them if they want to see our numbers I'll show them this is the opportunity for all of us embrace whether it's in the cube or through the sessions learn adjust because everybody's modernizing everybody needs to transform this is a great opportunity for them to do that with their skill set in their knowledge in the industry if everything you did work perfectly you're not trying enough stuff you need a change agent need a champion most likely at the senior level that's gonna really ride through this journey first three months didn't make a whole lot of progress I was just yelling like a madman to say Weiss it's not getting done and then you have to go back into I have to hire the right people so let's talk a few thing I made changes to the leadership team need more role models you need to get rid of and totally eliminate the harassment and the bullying and the you know old boys kind of club you got to create places where women in and minorities feel like they can be themselves culture plays a huge huge huge role there's just a wealth of enormously talented people now in our company ultimately creating a shared vision and an inspiring vision for what we want to do in the future you either embrace it okay you either stand on the sidelines or you leave the most creative of people from Leonardo da Vinci to Einstein Ben Franklin but Steve Jobs all love of the humanities and the science they stand at that intersection of sort of liberal arts technology you've got to interview Ashton Kutcher yeah which was quite amazing he's an unbelievable people don't maybe don't know no he's an investor he's kind of a geek Yeah right even though he's engineer my training please know that when you bring together a diverse group of individuals Jules always get to better answer for your customer you do place your bets on dell technology that's the right partner for you it's gonna it's gonna move you and your company Michael's got the right vision of where this is going he's got the right technology to do it and we've got great team members to help you get there simple predictable profitable right right keep it it's really that simple we need a few more thousand salespeople so if you're if you're really talented you know how to sell stuff you know it come come come join us at Dell technologies work where I earn more salespeople the future as Bob Dickinson said today we can cool all right everybody that's it from Dell technologies world I love you guys it's always great to be on the cube you guys do a fabulous job they go for a live tech coverage and it really has been a lot of fun we appreciate you and your team being here the next year we're gonna go party for your 10 year anniversary the cube love it we want to thank you for watching the cube again Lisa Martin with John Turner I'm Stu Mittleman this is Keith Townsend thanks for watching everybody we'll see you next time [Music] [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018, brought to you buy Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to SiliconANGLE's Media Production of theCUBE, live here from Dell Technologies World 2018. I'm Stu Miniman, and I have the distinct pleasure of welcoming Walter Isaacson to our program. Author, podcaster, I read every biography that you publish. I listen to every podcast, so thank you. So, Walter, this is a conference of geeks, you know? And I say that lovingly, 14 thousand people. They love technology; they love ideas. You have the chance to study and research some of the, you know, most brilliant minds, that we've had the last couple hundred years. Where do you get your inspiration from? >> You know, I love the fact that the most creative of people, from Leonardo Da Vinci to Einstein, Ben Franklin, Steve Jobs, Ada Lovelace, whomever they may be, all love the humanities and the science. They stand at that intersection of sort of liberal acts technology, and that's so important in today's world. We can have enormous amounts of data, and the question is, how do you connect humans to it? How do you add the human factor? And so, that's where I get my inspiration, from people who stand at that interaction of humanities and technology. >> Yeah, one of my favorite books of yours is the Innovators. You talked about history, and there's things that we've been looking at or trying. When you talk about forecasting or predicting something, sometimes we have great ideas, but if I take us, you know, decades or longer to get there, any kind of, you know, big inspirations? What do you say to people that work in the tech world, just how they should think about things like that? >> Well, first of all, things happen sometimes slower than you expect, until that inflection point, when they happen faster than you expect. >> It's like going broke, you know? It happens really slow, and then it happens fast. >> I guess we shouldn't say that in Vegas, here where we are for this conference, but I think that the main thing to do is to be one of those people that has an intuitive feel for how humans are going to find a product or service to be transformative to them. And, you know, we didn't know we needed a thousand songs in our pocket till the iPod came along. You know, likewise, we didn't know we needed transistors until somebody invented the transistor radio, and we could take it along with us. So, what turns us on? What makes us human? >> Yeah, so many things out there. You've been not only writing; you're doing podcasts now. What do you think of kind of the state of content? People say sometimes nobody reads anymore. You do hard research, a team of people. What's your thoughts about content these days? >> Well, I think the business model for journalism and production of content has been decimated at times, partly because it's all ad-driven in terms of journalism and, you know, video, and we need to get back to a time when people valued content and are willing to have a direct relationship with the content provider. About 80% of the revenue now for, say, reported or journalistic content does either the Google, Facebook, Instagram, some aggregator, so I think we have to look at the next way of finding micro-payment subscription models that work in addition to the advertising-driven model. >> Yeah, there's so many people sometimes, they look at all of this change, and they get kind of pessimistic. You know, we're going to have the AI apocalypse, or the robots are going to take over. Shows like here we're, that technology is, I say, by definition, are positive about technology. When I read your writings, you seem to have a very positive outcome. >> Oh, I'm definitely optimistic about where technology takes us. You know, I write in the Innovators, begin with Ada Lovelace, who was Lord Byron's daughter. Her father was a lud eyed, you know, defended the followers of Ned Lot, who was smashing the looms of England, thinking that technology would put people out of work. But Ada was somebody who said, "I get it. The punch card's telling those looms how to do patterns could make a calculating machine be able to do numbers, as well as words, as well as pictures." She envisioned the computer, and the notion of technology increases the number of people in the textile industry in England in the 19th century. And the computer has led to so many more jobs than its destroyed, so I think technology will always augment human creativity, not destroy it. >> So, last thing I wanted to ask you, Walter, is, we're here at Dell Technologies World. 34 years ago, Michael Dell started this. And he's a special individual. We've had the opportunity to talk to him, get to know him. I've told people that, you know, inside the company, if you reach out to him, he actually will respond. He seems very special in today's day in age. You've got background with Michael. Tell me, how do you-? >> I think it practically begins with his parents, his late mother and his father, you know, his father's still alive. Care a lot about education; care a lot about creativity. Deeply humane in the sense that they love all of society, human civil discourse, and that's why there's a humanity I see that Michael Dell is able to embed in his products, whether it's a Dell laptop I always use or the new servers, and Dell EMC, which enables people across platforms to say, "How do we collaborate; how do we be creative?" >> All right, well, Walter, I just say thank you so much. A pleasure having you on the program. And you've been watching theCUBE. I'm Stu Miniman. Always check out thecube.net for all of our broadcasts, and we also, like Walter, have a podcast. Check it out on iTunes. >> Walter: Thank you, Stu. >> Thank you. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Grace Hopper conference here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Jeff Frick. We are joined by Yasmine Mustafa. She is the founder of ROAR. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> So ROAR is a self-defense wearable technology for women. Tell our viewers a little bit more about the technology and also really where you got the idea. >> Sure, I got the idea about four years ago. I decided to do something a little bit crazy. I got rid of all my possessions. I got rid of my apartment. I put a backpack on, and I booked a solo trip to South America for six months, and I did it for two reasons. The first reason is refugee, and when I came here, even though I was brought here when I was 15 applying for colleges, I actually found out I was undocumented, so I spent about 10 years working under the table trying to become legalized, and it was a very long, hard battle. It was very difficult to go to school and get a real job, and once I became a US citizen which happened five years ago, I was also able to sell my first company. I had a software company before ROAR. And after those two events, I said, "You know what, I'm 30 years old. "I deserve a break. "I've had a long journey. "I'm going to go celebrate." >> Jeff: Start another long journey. (laughs) >> Yeah, exactly. (laughing) I wanted to travel for so long and I couldn't 'cause when you're undocumented, it's really-- >> Hard to get back into the country. >> And you don't have the right credentials and even after I got my Green Card, I could. You can travel after getting your Green Card but I was so worried that I wouldn't be able to come back 'cause I've heard stories that I intentionally didn't, and so I booked this six-month trip as a way to reward myself and as a way to kind of make up for everything that had happened beforehand, and it was amazing trip. It was really life-changing. When I talk about it, I talk about my life in relation to before the trip and after the trip because it was so transformational, and I went to Spanish school for three weeks, did full Spanish immersions, stayed with a Spanish family in Ecuador, and then I went to Colombia and Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Peru. I spent a month in each country but as incredible as it was, it was also incredibly eye-opening because everywhere that I went and visited, I just kept hearing story after story of a time a woman had been attacked or abused or harassed, and it really opened my eyes to the violence women face every day, and a week after I came back to Philadelphia, it was in a downtown, when my neighbor went out to her car. It's a horrible story. She was grabbed from behind. she was dragged into an alley. She was severely assaulted, brutally assaulted. When I saw the news story the next day, that was when the light bulb moment hit, and I called up my cofounder, my formal adviser of my last company and told him about it, Anthony Gold, and we ended together to start ROAR for Good, and the concept initially was completely different. We thought the problem was that existing self-defense tools, pepper sprays, tasers was that you have to pull them out of your pocket or your purse for them to be useful, and it's not like you could just be like, "Excuse me. "One second," (laughing) and dig it out, so we thought let's make it wearable so that it's readily accessible. This is when Fitbit was huge, and the initial idea was actually called the macelet, mace in a bracelet, and (laughs) exactly, and as clever as that name was, we found out through market research that it was actually a terrible idea, that the number one fear that women had of self-defense tools is, "I'm afraid I'm going to be overpowered, and my own self-defense device used as a weapon against me," and another one, "What if I use it against myself accidentally?" And when we did more research, we found that existing self-defense tools are actually made by men for other men, and when the market opportunity for women came about, they shrunk it, they shrinked it and pinked it, and they didn't really account for women's needs, so we went back to the drawing board, and we said, "All right, we need to make something "that's stylish but discreet, "something that can call for help, "something that can ward off an attack, "and something that cannot be used "against the person wearing it", and that's how we came up with Athena. >> So do you have one that you can show are yours, what it looks like? >> I do, I do, yes. >> This is what it looks like. >> How it works, okay. >> So it has a magnetic band. Initially it was actually a bracelet, and when we were doing self-defense classes with prototypes, we actually found out the worst place to wear a safety device is on your wrist, and can you guess why? >> Somebody grabs your wrist, grabs your arm, right? >> Exactly, or now you only have the opposite hand to activate it, so we said, "No, we need to make something "that's more readily accessible "where both hands can be free," so we designed it with this magnetic strip so that you can clip it on any which way you want. The most popular options we've seen are purse, pocket bra strap, or lapel, and the way it works is if you feel nervous, if you want someone to watch over you, you triple press the button, and it sends your coordinates to your family and friends showing exactly where you are, and if there is danger, if you really need help right away, you press and hold it for three seconds, and it will also sound an alarm, and in about seven rings, you'll also be able to call emergency number, the local PSAP, 911 center in your neighborhood. >> Wow. >> It's such a great concept. As are so many great inventions are, it's really assembling a bunch of components that already exist, your cellphone, an app on your phone, your network of your contacts, the GPS in your phone, and assembling it in a slightly different way for a very specific application. >> Everything that's commonplace, it's in the device. There's nothing proprietary about it. It's just the way that we put it together. Again, we took existing technology and put it together in a way and tested it to make sure that it's something that can work, and we worked with police officers and self-defense instructors to put it together, which is really eye-opening as well. >> And the other part, if you can explore, it's a different way to interact with 911 so if it is an emergency, you're not picking up the phone, you're not talking but according to your website, it's faster, in a lot of ways, it's more efficient. There's a lot of benefits to a not phone call connection with what traditionally has been the way you ask for help, and how did getting that through, is that a regulatory thing? How did that whole process work? >> That's a great question. It's something that we probably spent about a year working on, and we actually have a partner that does it for us, so this partner, what's really cool about them is that they have a relationship with all 500 PSAPs, so a PSAP is just your local 911 center in your area, and our service is going to be able to to leverage their partnership to be able to connect with all of them. The way their system works is they can actually better track you through their service than your normal cellphone can, which is also really cool, and if you're my emergency contacts and I press this button 'cause I can't call 911 and you're in Orlando, I'm in Philadelphia, it will actually route you to the PSAP in my neighborhood versus your local PSAP so then it saves the time in terms of calling the Orlando PSAP and then having them call the Philadelphia PSAP and then finding me, so we're really, really excited about this opportunity. >> So apart from the technology, I want to talk to you a little bit about funding. Funding is one of the greatest barriers that really, all technologists but in particular, women founders face. Can you describe a little bit about how you went about finding sources of money? You already sold a company by then so you'd already been successful. >> Yes. >> But what about people without the track record? What would you say? >> Sure. I'd love to touch on the social mission aspect at some point too if you don't mind. For funding, I'm very lucky in the sense that my cofounder, he's also founded several companies in the past and fundraising is his thing, so he's been the one to lead it but what we did initially, so we spent about 18 months in product development, and we did a lot of testing, I mean really awkward, we put ourselves in really awkward situations where we went to parks and coffee shops, and showed people this and said, "Why would you not use this? "Tell me why you don't like this," and then we went back to the drawing board and did it again and again, and then we got to the point where people said, "Yeah, I want this. "I want this for my mom. "I want this for my child. "I want this for my college student." But there is a world of difference between, say, yeah, I want it versus buying it, so what we did initially is we actually launched a crowdfunding campaign. We launched an Indiegogo campaign, and for us, it was really a way to test if we really had, we were onto something. We initially had the goal of $40,000. The results really blew us away. We hit that $40,000 goal within the second day, got to 100 by the 10th day, 100,000, and then we ended the campaign with a little bit over 300,000 funding, and that really allowed us to do our seat stage round, and we were lucky from the sense we have a really interesting story. There is a billionaire couple in the UK that found out about us through the campaign after it took off. We had sales in every state in the country, 50 countries worldwide. Ashton Kutcher tweeted about it. It was amazing. It went viral for a little bit, which was incredible, but they learned about it, and then reached out to Indiegogo and said, "We want to meet this team, the company behind this team," and we connected with them, and they immediately put $2 million into the company. We went and met with them in Chicago after they came over, and within three days, we had the money in our bank account, so we got a little bit lucky but having that crowdfunding campaign, the success as validation really helped us to be able to raise that additional funding, and then we went to Ben Franklin Technology Partners, and they put in $250,000, our local economic resource center that does matching, and that's how we raised our initial seed to growth. >> And you mentioned the social mission piece so I want you to tell our viewers a little bit more. >> Yeah, so I, for a long tIme, lived in fear, so being undocumented, not really knowing what could happen, and I'm actually giving a talk tomorrow about my whole journey, and learning about women living in fear in another different way while traveling throughout South America. I didn't want to build a company that just built products and sold them to women that just put the onus on women 'cause it's too common for us to say were you drinking when something happens or don't do, don't wear this, don't go here, and we wanted to change that narrative, hence, the ROAR for Good aspect, and what we found after talking with psychologists and researchers is that violence against women stems from gender discrimination and inequality, and that there is one trait, if taught to young kids when they're most impressionable, can actually reduce violence against women, and that's empathy, and that empathy has actually decreased 40% over the last 20 years, and there is a controversy on whether or not it's something that's learned or innate but wherever you fall in that category, there is no denying that it is falling regardless, so we invest, we have what we call a ROAR Back program, which is we invest a portion of proceeds of every sale to nonprofits that specifically focus on teaching respect and healthy relationships to young kids when it matters most. >> Yasmine, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> It's a really exciting technology. Thank you. >> Hopefully we'll see you at Philly. We got to have a Philly show. >> Come to Philly, please. >> So you got Josh as a buddy so-- >> Yes. >> Come on, Josh. We got to have us some Philly. (laughing) >> I'm Rebecca Knight with Jeff Frick. We will have more from Grace Hopper just after this. (light music)