>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Snowflake Summit 2022 underscored that the ecosystem excitement which was once forming around Hadoop is being reborn, escalated and coalescing around Snowflake's data cloud. What was once seen as a simpler cloud data warehouse and good marketing with the data cloud is evolving rapidly with new workloads of vertical industry focus, data applications, monetization, and more. The question is, will the promise of data be fulfilled this time around, or is it same wine, new bottle? Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis," we'll talk about the event, the announcements that Snowflake made that are of greatest interest, the major themes of the show, what was hype and what was real, the competition, and some concerns that remain in many parts of the ecosystem and pockets of customers. First let's look at the overall event. It was held at Caesars Forum. Not my favorite venue, but I'll tell you it was packed. Fire Marshall Full, as we sometimes say. Nearly 10,000 people attended the event. Here's Snowflake's CMO Denise Persson on theCUBE describing how this event has evolved. >> Yeah, two, three years ago, we were about 1800 people at a Hilton in San Francisco. We had about 40 partners attending. This week we're close to 10,000 attendees here. Almost 10,000 people online as well, and over over 200 partners here on the show floor. >> Now, those numbers from 2019 remind me of the early days of Hadoop World, which was put on by Cloudera but then Cloudera handed off the event to O'Reilly as this article that we've inserted, if you bring back that slide would say. The headline it almost got it right. Hadoop World was a failure, but it didn't have to be. Snowflake has filled the void created by O'Reilly when it first killed Hadoop World, and killed the name and then killed Strata. Now, ironically, the momentum and excitement from Hadoop's early days, it probably could have stayed with Cloudera but the beginning of the end was when they gave the conference over to O'Reilly. We can't imagine Frank Slootman handing the keys to the kingdom to a third party. Serious business was done at this event. I'm talking substantive deals. Salespeople from a host sponsor and the ecosystems that support these events, they love physical. They really don't like virtual because physical belly to belly means relationship building, pipeline, and deals. And that was blatantly obvious at this show. And in fairness, all theCUBE events that we've done year but this one was more vibrant because of its attendance and the action in the ecosystem. Ecosystem is a hallmark of a cloud company, and that's what Snowflake is. We asked Frank Slootman on theCUBE, was this ecosystem evolution by design or did Snowflake just kind of stumble into it? Here's what he said. >> Well, when you are a data clouding, you have data, people want to do things with that data. They don't want just run data operations, populate dashboards, run reports. Pretty soon they want to build applications and after they build applications, they want build businesses on it. So it goes on and on and on. So it drives your development to enable more and more functionality on that data cloud. Didn't start out that way, you know, we were very, very much focused on data operations. Then it becomes application development and then it becomes, hey, we're developing whole businesses on this platform. So similar to what happened to Facebook in many ways. >> So it sounds like it was maybe a little bit of both. The Facebook analogy is interesting because Facebook is a walled garden, as is Snowflake, but when you come into that garden, you have assurances that things are going to work in a very specific way because a set of standards and protocols is being enforced by a steward, i.e. Snowflake. This means things run better inside of Snowflake than if you try to do all the integration yourself. Now, maybe over time, an open source version of that will come out but if you wait for that, you're going to be left behind. That said, Snowflake has made moves to make its platform more accommodating to open source tooling in many of its announcements this week. Now, I'm not going to do a deep dive on the announcements. Matt Sulkins from Monte Carlo wrote a decent summary of the keynotes and a number of analysts like Sanjeev Mohan, Tony Bear and others are posting some deeper analysis on these innovations, and so we'll point to those. I'll say a few things though. Unistore extends the type of data that can live in the Snowflake data cloud. It's enabled by a new feature called hybrid tables, a new table type in Snowflake. One of the big knocks against Snowflake was it couldn't handle and transaction data. Several database companies are creating this notion of a hybrid where both analytic and transactional workloads can live in the same data store. Oracle's doing this for example, with MySQL HeatWave and there are many others. We saw Mongo earlier this month add an analytics capability to its transaction system. Mongo also added sequel, which was kind of interesting. Here's what Constellation Research analyst Doug Henschen said about Snowflake's moves into transaction data. Play the clip. >> Well with Unistore, they're reaching out and trying to bring transactional data in. Hey, don't limit this to analytical information and there's other ways to do that like CDC and streaming but they're very closely tying that again to that marketplace, with the idea of bring your data over here and you can monetize it. Don't just leave it in that transactional database. So another reach to a broader play across a big community that they're building. >> And you're also seeing Snowflake expand its workload types in its unique way and through Snowpark and its stream lit acquisition, enabling Python so that native apps can be built in the data cloud and benefit from all that structure and the features that Snowflake is built in. Hence that Facebook analogy, or maybe the App Store, the Apple App Store as I propose as well. Python support also widens the aperture for machine intelligence workloads. We asked Snowflake senior VP of product, Christian Kleinerman which announcements he thought were the most impactful. And despite the who's your favorite child nature of the question, he did answer. Here's what he said. >> I think the native applications is the one that looks like, eh, I don't know about it on the surface but he has the biggest potential to change everything. That's create an entire ecosystem of solutions for within a company or across companies that I don't know that we know what's possible. >> Snowflake also announced support for Apache Iceberg, which is a new open table format standard that's emerging. So you're seeing Snowflake respond to these concerns about its lack of openness, and they're building optionality into their cloud. They also showed some cost op optimization tools both from Snowflake itself and from the ecosystem, notably Capital One which launched a software business on top of Snowflake focused on optimizing cost and eventually the rollout data management capabilities, and all kinds of features that Snowflake announced that the show around governance, cross cloud, what we call super cloud, a new security workload, and they reemphasize their ability to read non-native on-prem data into Snowflake through partnerships with Dell and Pure and a lot more. Let's hear from some of the analysts that came on theCUBE this week at Snowflake Summit to see what they said about the announcements and their takeaways from the event. This is Dave Menninger, Sanjeev Mohan, and Tony Bear, roll the clip. >> Our research shows that the majority of organizations, the majority of people do not have access to analytics. And so a couple of the things they've announced I think address those or help to address those issues very directly. So Snowpark and support for Python and other languages is a way for organizations to embed analytics into different business processes. And so I think that'll be really beneficial to try and get analytics into more people's hands. And I also think that the native applications as part of the marketplace is another way to get applications into people's hands rather than just analytical tools. Because most people in the organization are not analysts. They're doing some line of business function. They're HR managers, they're marketing people, they're sales people, they're finance people, right? They're not sitting there mucking around in the data, they're doing a job and they need analytics in that job. >> Primarily, I think it is to contract this whole notion that once you move data into Snowflake, it's a proprietary format. So I think that's how it started but it's usually beneficial to the customers, to the users because now if you have large amount of data in paket files you can leave it on S3, but then you using the Apache Iceberg table format in Snowflake, you get all the benefits of Snowflake's optimizer. So for example, you get the micro partitioning, you get the metadata. And in a single query, you can join, you can do select from a Snowflake table union and select from an iceberg table and you can do store procedure, user defined function. So I think what they've done is extremely interesting. Iceberg by itself still does not have multi-table transactional capabilities. So if I'm running a workload, I might be touching 10 different tables. So if I use Apache Iceberg in a raw format, they don't have it, but Snowflake does. So the way I see it is Snowflake is adding more and more capabilities right into the database. So for example, they've gone ahead and added security and privacy. So you can now create policies and do even cell level masking, dynamic masking, but most organizations have more than Snowflake. So what we are starting to see all around here is that there's a whole series of data catalog companies, a bunch of companies that are doing dynamic data masking, security and governance, data observability which is not a space Snowflake has gone into. So there's a whole ecosystem of companies that is mushrooming. Although, you know, so they're using the native capabilities of Snowflake but they are at a level higher. So if you have a data lake and a cloud data warehouse and you have other like relational databases, you can run these cross platform capabilities in that layer. So that way, you know, Snowflake's done a great job of enabling that ecosystem. >> I think it's like the last mile, essentially. In other words, it's like, okay, you have folks that are basically that are very comfortable with Tableau but you do have developers who don't want to have to shell out to a separate tool. And so this is where Snowflake is essentially working to address that constituency. To Sanjeev's point, and I think part of it, this kind of plays into it is what makes this different from the Hadoop era is the fact that all these capabilities, you know, a lot of vendors are taking it very seriously to put this native. Now, obviously Snowflake acquired Streamlit. So we can expect that the Streamlit capabilities are going to be native. >> I want to share a little bit about the higher level thinking at Snowflake, here's a chart from Frank Slootman's keynote. It's his version of the modern data stack, if you will. Now, Snowflake of course, was built on the public cloud. If there were no AWS, there would be no Snowflake. Now, they're all about bringing data and live data and expanding the types of data, including structured, we just heard about that, unstructured, geospatial, and the list is going to continue on and on. Eventually I think it's going to bleed into the edge if we can figure out what to do with that edge data. Executing on new workloads is a big deal. They started with data sharing and they recently added security and they've essentially created a PaaS layer. We call it a SuperPaaS layer, if you will, to attract application developers. Snowflake has a developer-focused event coming up in November and they've extended the marketplace with 1300 native apps listings. And at the top, that's the holy grail, monetization. We always talk about building data products and we saw a lot of that at this event, very, very impressive and unique. Now here's the thing. There's a lot of talk in the press, in the Wall Street and the broader community about consumption-based pricing and concerns over Snowflake's visibility and its forecast and how analytics may be discretionary. But if you're a company building apps in Snowflake and monetizing like Capital One intends to do, and you're now selling in the marketplace, that is not discretionary, unless of course your costs are greater than your revenue for that service, in which case is going to fail anyway. But the point is we're entering a new error where data apps and data products are beginning to be built and Snowflake is attempting to make the data cloud the defacto place as to where you're going to build them. In our view they're well ahead in that journey. Okay, let's talk about some of the bigger themes that we heard at the event. Bringing apps to the data instead of moving the data to the apps, this was a constant refrain and one that certainly makes sense from a physics point of view. But having a single source of data that is discoverable, sharable and governed with increasingly robust ecosystem options, it doesn't have to be moved. Sometimes it may have to be moved if you're going across regions, but that's unique and a differentiator for Snowflake in our view. I mean, I'm yet to see a data ecosystem that is as rich and growing as fast as the Snowflake ecosystem. Monetization, we talked about that, industry clouds, financial services, healthcare, retail, and media, all front and center at the event. My understanding is that Frank Slootman was a major force behind this shift, this development and go to market focus on verticals. It's really an attempt, and he talked about this in his keynote to align with the customer mission ultimately align with their objectives which not surprisingly, are increasingly monetizing with data as a differentiating ingredient. We heard a ton about data mesh, there were numerous presentations about the topic. And I'll say this, if you map the seven pillars Snowflake talks about, Benoit Dageville talked about this in his keynote, but if you map those into Zhamak Dehghani's data mesh framework and the four principles, they align better than most of the data mesh washing that I've seen. The seven pillars, all data, all workloads, global architecture, self-managed, programmable, marketplace and governance. Those are the seven pillars that he talked about in his keynote. All data, well, maybe with hybrid tables that becomes more of a reality. Global architecture means the data is globally distributed. It's not necessarily physically in one place. Self-managed is key. Self-service infrastructure is one of Zhamak's four principles. And then inherent governance. Zhamak talks about computational, what I'll call automated governance, built in. And with all the talk about monetization, that aligns with the second principle which is data as product. So while it's not a pure hit and to its credit, by the way, Snowflake doesn't use data mesh in its messaging anymore. But by the way, its customers do, several customers talked about it. Geico, JPMC, and a number of other customers and partners are using the term and using it pretty closely to the concepts put forth by Zhamak Dehghani. But back to the point, they essentially, Snowflake that is, is building a proprietary system that substantially addresses some, if not many of the goals of data mesh. Okay, back to the list, supercloud, that's our term. We saw lots of examples of clouds on top of clouds that are architected to spin multiple clouds, not just run on individual clouds as separate services. And this includes Snowflake's data cloud itself but a number of ecosystem partners that are headed in a very similar direction. Snowflake still talks about data sharing but now it uses the term collaboration in its high level messaging, which is I think smart. Data sharing is kind of a geeky term. And also this is an attempt by Snowflake to differentiate from everyone else that's saying, hey, we do data sharing too. And finally Snowflake doesn't say data marketplace anymore. It's now marketplace, accounting for its application market. Okay, let's take a quick look at the competitive landscape via this ETR X-Y graph. Vertical access remembers net score or spending momentum and the x-axis is penetration, pervasiveness in the data center. That's what ETR calls overlap. Snowflake continues to lead on the vertical axis. They guide it conservatively last quarter, remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if that lofty height, even though it's well down from its earlier levels but I wouldn't be surprised if it ticks down again a bit in the July survey, which will be in the field shortly. Databricks is a key competitor obviously at a strong spending momentum, as you can see. We didn't draw it here but we usually draw that 40% line or red line at 40%, anything above that is considered elevated. So you can see Databricks is quite elevated. But it doesn't have the market presence of Snowflake. It didn't get to IPO during the bubble and it doesn't have nearly as deep and capable go-to market machinery. Now, they're getting better and they're getting some attention in the market, nonetheless. But as a private company, you just naturally, more people are aware of Snowflake. Some analysts, Tony Bear in particular, believe Mongo and Snowflake are on a bit of a collision course long term. I actually can see his point. You know, I mean, they're both platforms, they're both about data. It's long ways off, but you can see them sort of in a similar path. They talk about kind of similar aspirations and visions even though they're quite in different markets today but they're definitely participating in similar tam. The cloud players are probably the biggest or definitely the biggest partners and probably the biggest competitors to Snowflake. And then there's always Oracle. Doesn't have the spending velocity of the others but it's got strong market presence. It owns a cloud and it knows a thing about data and it definitely is a go-to market machine. Okay, we're going to end on some of the things that we heard in the ecosystem. 'Cause look, we've heard before how particular technology, enterprise data warehouse, data hubs, MDM, data lakes, Hadoop, et cetera. We're going to solve all of our data problems and of course they didn't. And in fact, sometimes they create more problems that allow vendors to push more incremental technology to solve the problems that they created. Like tools and platforms to clean up the no schema on right nature of data lakes or data swamps. But here are some of the things that I heard firsthand from some customers and partners. First thing is, they said to me that they're having a hard time keeping up sometimes with the pace of Snowflake. It reminds me of AWS in 2014, 2015 timeframe. You remember that fire hose of announcements which causes increased complexity for customers and partners. I talked to several customers that said, well, yeah this is all well and good but I still need skilled people to understand all these tools that I'm integrated in the ecosystem, the catalogs, the machine learning observability. A number of customers said, I just can't use one governance tool, I need multiple governance tools and a lot of other technologies as well, and they're concerned that that's going to drive up their cost and their complexity. I heard other concerns from the ecosystem that it used to be sort of clear as to where they could add value you know, when Snowflake was just a better data warehouse. But to point number one, they're either concerned that they'll be left behind or they're concerned that they'll be subsumed. Look, I mean, just like we tell AWS customers and partners, you got to move fast, you got to keep innovating. If you don't, you're going to be left. Either if your customer you're going to be left behind your competitor, or if you're a partner, somebody else is going to get there or AWS is going to solve the problem for you. Okay, and there were a number of skeptical practitioners, really thoughtful and experienced data pros that suggested that they've seen this movie before. That's hence the same wine, new bottle. Well, this time around I certainly hope not given all the energy and investment that is going into this ecosystem. And the fact is Snowflake is unquestionably making it easier to put data to work. They built on AWS so you didn't have to worry about provisioning, compute and storage and networking and scaling. Snowflake is optimizing its platform to take advantage of things like Graviton so you don't have to, and they're doing some of their own optimization tools. The ecosystem is building optimization tools so that's all good. And firm belief is the less expensive it is, the more data will get brought into the data cloud. And they're building a data platform on which their ecosystem can build and run data applications, aka data products without having to worry about all the hard work that needs to get done to make data discoverable, shareable, and governed. And unlike the last 10 years, you don't have to be a keeper and integrate all the animals in the Hadoop zoo. Okay, that's it for today, thanks for watching. Thanks to my colleague, Stephanie Chan who helps research "Breaking Analysis" topics. Sometimes Alex Myerson is on production and manages the podcasts. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social and in our newsletters, and Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at Silicon, and Hailey does some wonderful editing, thanks to all. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis Podcasts. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and you can email me at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante. If you got something interesting, I'll respond. If you don't, I'm sorry I won't. Or comment on my LinkedIn post. Please check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE! Covering IBM Think, brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM 2020, it's the digital IBM 2020, the Think Event Experience. My name is Dave Vellante, and you are watching theCUBE. Steve Canepa is here, he's the global GM of Communications, of the Communications sector for IBM. Steve, how ya doing, good to have you on. >> Doing great Dave, thanks for having me. >> Yeah, you're very welcome. I mean, communications is sort of a broad term for the stuff you covered. Telco, Cable, Entertainment, Broadcast, Publishing, Satellite, Sports, Music, Games, I mean, Social, wow. You run the gamut. >> It's exciting times. >> Pretty big role, yeah, I'll say you've got exciting times. With so much going on in your space, and of course this pandemic is really, you know, hit the communications industry in so many different ways. Some tailwinds, some headwinds, and it's just crazy out there. What are you seeing and what are you guys doing to support clients? >> Well, first and importantly, our thoughts go out to everyone. As we're all dealing with this around the world. I have the opportunity to work with clients, in every geography, around the globe and each and everyone of them is busily dealing with how they make sure their employees are safe, how they're providing services to their customers. And, we're right there alongside them, helping them do that as well. For us in the telecommunication space, as you know, it's actually essential, it's an essential industry that's helping the world deal with this as we are all going virtual like this session we're having today. So we're working with clients to help them get their resources in place so that they can support their businesses, their network platforms, their media services in a way that they can keep the business running. Our telecommunications customers all around the globe had to get their resources and work at home environments, we work with many of them, in deploying real-time services. We also work with them in deploying call center chatbot capabilities so that they could answer questions from their customers, from other members of the community as they were coming in. So tremendous opportunity for us to help them respond to what's happening. >> It's actually quite amazing the response, when you think about telco, you think about telco infrastructure, what comes to mind is, it's hard and it's reliable, it works and all of a sudden you've got all these remote workers. The pace of the pivot has been actually quite astounding. I mean your thoughts on that. >> Yeah and it actually goes hand in glove in what way we've been preparing the industry for generally. I mean there's been this evolution that digital service providers that's been happening in the industry now for a number of years and in fact the center point of what we're doing now to help telcos virtualize and abstract those networks so that they're software based services platforms that can respond to these kinds of peak load demand issues. Not that anyone anticipated COVID, but the ability to have a platform, that can scale your business. And allow you to respond, move services where they need to be moved, be much more agile in the way you work. These are all playing in the ability to respond to it. >> Steve I want to ask you about something you said in a recent article in Forbes, you said, winners in the 5G and edge era will be those who embrace a hybrid multicloud approach." Well, first of all, I want to ask you, I mean five G can't get here fast enough, but still you're kind of predicting, my inference a five g and edge era coming this decade, like I said it can't happen soon enough. What are your thoughts on this coming era? >> In my view there's three fundamental things that are happening simultaneously. So first obviously, five g is emerging. It's showing up now. Most service providers around the world are starting to already deploy their private five g capabilities. We're seeing it show up in evolution form, in consumer marketplace. So five g is here and will continue to scale. The second key transformation that's happening is the telco network itself is becoming a hybrid cloud platform. What I mean by that is that just as when video abstracted as a service and it could be deployed over the top service platforms, enabling things like our interview that we're doing today to happen, that got loaded on top of now open IP platform. The same exact thing is happening in the network domain where the network services, data services, voice service, multimedia services are being put on an open platform architecture that allows you to respond. And then the third key thing that's happening in the market is this edge phenomenon. And this is all about the ability to move workloads, to move services out closer to where things happen and take advantage of those key five g features like ultra low latency, increased bandwidth, and of course the ability to slice the network down to dedicated to a specific application. This opens up a whole new set of services. >> Yeah I mean as I was sort of eluding to before, the reliability of telco networks has been the hallmark of that infrastructure. As we move to this more open sort of standardized environments Steve, I would imagine that one of the technical challenges is maintaining that level of reliability and predictability while at the same time being able to support remote workers, etc low latency workloads. Can you comment on that? >> Yeah so a couple of key points there. One is as you may know, IBM acquired Red Hat a little over a year ago. Red Hat has created an open platform for the telco's to modernize their core infrastructure. And the power of that is we can see is this enormous upstream community now and that community can help accelerate the rate pace of transformation is happening, bring innovation in. That's really powerful. The second is, once we go through an open platform, software based platform, we can infuse automation. Extreme levels of automation, and AI for intelligent predictive capability. And now think about the network becoming a living, breathing, responding platform where it's based on software. So we can deploy services and functions and we can automate those services and functions. That level of intelligence serves as the ability to then get out these services. >> So Steve, definitely we had I think a decent understanding of the Red Hat and the strategy around Open Shift and the container approach, hybrid multicloud. What I didn't realize is that there was specificity around the telco industry. Can you talk more specifically about what IBM is doing in that regard? >> Yeah, it's a great question. Red Hat has a very significant presence in 120 telcos around the globe. And so not only they're Red Hat Linux which is kind of a defacto standard in the marketplace, but their open stack architecture now we're moving after the Open Shift architecture. And as part of that the relationship with an enormous upstream community of talent, it's building on those platforms. And so we're able to really infuse into Red Hat the kind of requirements that are necessary for their software platform to serve as the platform, the open platform for the telcos as we go forward. It has been an incredible synergy. I think of it as kind of two puzzle pieces that fit together incredibly well. At IBM we've had the long standing relationship with all the service providers around the world and helping them transform their business and now with Red Hat we have the opportunity to really integrate what we're doing with automation and AI standpoint with all the power of that Red Hat Platform. >> So where do you see the edge fitting into this hybrid multicloud approach? Is it sort of an extension of cloud? Is it a new cloud? We know we are envisioning this seamless experience between on-prem, cloud, multicloud, and edge. >> Yeah I think of it in a kind of simple venn diagram where you have kind of this virtualized open software based telco network on one side and you have the edge on the other and in the middle you have this kind of combination where you do edge in partnership with the telco. And the idea here is that all industries are going to want to provide a next generation of insights to their customers and to their partners. The ability to move those workloads, so think about a manufacturing shop for an example. You know we've already had IoT centers, hundreds if not thousands of them. Now we can infuse video cameras and take a huge amount of data through the enhanced bandwidth of five g and bring that down to an edge platform and analyze that video data in real time, whether employees are in safe zones, maybe with COVID now even, whether or not they're taking the proper social distancing, and looking at actually everything that's coming off of that platform or manufacturing line, looking at the equipment itself and adding AI to that so that we can analyze it in real time. Edge allows us to take advantage of those five g attributes and to put it wherever that workload should run. Whether it's on the plant floor itself, in proximity to where that equipment is, or back at a central office location within the network of a telco. >> Well this is huge for the telcos because for years, I keep talking about their hardened network, but their cost per bit has been coming down. They're responsible for putting in that infrastructure, maintaining that infrastructure and then you got the over the top providers laying out content growing like crazy, has really disrupted that industry. This is going to change the way in which telcos are able to compete, is it not? >> It's a great point. Yes. If you think about the last generation of evolution you know when we went to four g and smartphones came out, think about the Apple App Store as an example. Folks started not going to the telcos anymore for those services, they went to that OTP capability to get those applications. Now think about about in this edge world as we essentially are creating platforms for innovation for businesses and all industries. And they can now innovate on those platforms and create incredible value in their business and the telcos now can add beyond just the transport capability, but artificial intelligence, automation, they can expose certain data capabilities, they can make those applications smarter, understanding proximity data, that could be applied to things like logistics or pricing or as I said operations like in manufacturing. So a tremendous new set of value in fact most analysts say a trillion dollars in value is going to be created here. And the opportunity I see is that the open network platform becomes a way for the service providers to not only capture value for themselves, but to accelerate the value for businesses in all industries. >> Well I think we're going to see some huge moves in the chess board. More M and A. I mean it's going to be a very exciting time and of course five g's at the heart of it, but Steve I wonder if you could give us IBM's point of view in terms of where we are with five g, I mean sometimes I see it pop up on my phone and I'm like come on, that's not real five g quite yet. We heard recently that Apple might somewhat delay it's new phones that maybe five g's involved in that, but it's going to take some time for that infrastructure to roll out but what's your point of view on sort of that time frame and the business impact that we can all expect? >> Yeah I know, it's a good question. And we will see it roll out over time. Some things are starting to roll out now. Think about stadiums or other venues where you have a manufacturing shop floor as an example, oil rig off the coast. I mean you have environments where you could create five g infrastructure in a private model today and then of course consumer models are going to roll out as cities continue to get deployed by the various service providers. But I think the important point which is what we've spoken about so far, is that as we start to create this platform capability around the edge and we start to transform those network themself to coincide telcos platform, we can start to capture those values today in a four g world and as five g comes along you just essentially evolve into the capabilities that that brings especially with regards to latency and bandwidth. Now some applications where slicing will be really important. Think about a medical operation where a doctor is consulting on a surgery in a remote location. Now if I know for sure that bandwidths going to be there, that doctor no longer has to be in the same location as that robotic equipment as an example. So the ability to have dedicated bandwidth which will come with five g, will be an important attribute that gets added. >> I mean the possibilities are really mind boggling. You mentioned stadiums. Now of course hopefully at some point we'll be able to go to football games again. But I mean the last decade was all about how big can you make the screen in the stadium versus this screen. This is where a lot of the action is going to be now. Replays and just the whole experience, ordering goods and services. And then of course hardened environments like oil rigs etc so really we're not just going to return to the last decade we've been talking about that a lot here. Go ahead please. >> An example that I like to mention just 'cause it kind of brings us all together, think about first responders. Now we're in the midst of the COVID thing but soon in California again unfortunately we'll probably get close to fire season. Think in a five g edge world what that might look like. So the minute that fire starts in some location in California, drones are in the air sending video down to an edge platform that's being analyzed to understand where that fire's going and importantly everything that's in it's path and how to best battle it. Sensors coming in from IoT centers in the area feeding in data. Our weather company app feeding in real time weather statistics, wind path, temperature changes, that are going to influence the way that that that fire performs. And now with the announcement we made Samsung just recently with our edge platform, the ability to have those first responders have sensors on them, Samsung devices that are measuring their vital signs and with the predictive models that are being built, we'll know whether that first responders' in distress or about to be in distress. The ability to scale our inbound communications capability digitally so that chat bots can handle this enormous increase in the amount of folks calling in to get information on what's happening in real time. And of course with the AI in that edge platform. Moving all of that physical equipment, the asset, humans, the first responders, in the optimal position at all times in order to get that fire out as soon as possible. I think it's a good example of how we can see these capabilities come together in a five g and edge world and allow us to get enormous value, saving lives, saving property, responding to an incident like that. >> I mean that's a great example of how you're going to put innovation into action 'cause you touched all points. Imagine the amount of data now that's being created and that example that you just gave, I mean it's just going exponential. Applying artificial intelligence, machine intelligence, and then the other phrase you used is real time. And we're talking about real time or near real time decisions actually being made potentially often times by the machines or in combination with humans so that these actions can be taken of course it's all occurring on an infrastructure that's sort of an expanding definition of cloud, not just on prem, not just hybrid, not just multicloud but now the edge. It's really going to be an exciting 10 years. >> You got it exactly right. And importantly, using that example, once that fire's put out, that edge platform can wind back down to where it was before the incident occurred. But all the intelligence that was gained during that, can be taken to the next incident has it happens. So this agility becomes really powerful 'cause we get the cumulative learning that happens in these models going forward. >> Amazing. So where can people go to get some more information on sort of IBM's edge approach? >> If you go to IBM.com, you'll see information on both on IBM edge solutions that we're putting forward into marketplace and what we're doing specifically with the telecommunication service providers to help them transform their networks to take advantage of this incredible opportunity. >> Well Steve, thanks so much for your time. Really great discussion. I appreciate you comin on and sharing with our community. >> My pleasure. Thank you. >> And thank you everybody. This is theCUBE's continuous coverage of IBM Think 2020, the Digital Event Experience. My name's Dave Vellante. Keep it right there, I'll be right back right after this short break. (relaxing music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE, covering Kubecon and CloudNativeCon, brought to you by RedHat, a CloudNative computing foundation and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hi and welcome back to Kubecon, CloudNativeCon 2019 here in San Diego. I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost for three days of coverage is John Troyer, and happy to welcome back to the program, was on the keynote stage earlier at the conference, Derek Collison is the founder and CEO of Synadia. >> Yes, welcome. >> Stu: Showing the logo, thanks so much for joining us, Derek. >> Oh, thank you, I really appreciate it, it's been a while. >> Yeah, it has, so you know, we've known you for many years, had you on the program, you look at us, you've got one of those VIP logos 'cause you've been on the show a few times, and you've seen a couple of these waves. Latest thing, of course, you're talking a lot about NATS, but of course Cloud Foundry you built that, so you've seen a lot of these waves, but I want to start with something you said that I thought was really thought-provoking and interesting. A lot of people, we talk about the Cloud economy, talk about the data economy... You talk about the connective economy, so, explain to our audience a little bit what that means. >> So, the general gist of it is, hey, where's the innovation and where's the value coming out of information technology, IT, infrastructure and things like that, and for a long time, we were swept up in the Cloud economy, which was how you move from CapEx into OpEx, and things like that, and then of course it was all about data. And it still is about data, but if you notice, it's not the data moving to where you're trying to process things, now it's all of a sudden being distributed, and so you take that, and you take MicroServices, and you take all these things, and at least from my perspective, I see the value driving out of these systems now is in, how are they connected? How are you observing them, how are you securing them and trusting them? And I believe that's where the value in the next wave of innovation's going to come from. >> Yeah, it's funny, I hear sometimes we talk about the pendulum of technology, and I look in the ten years we've been doing this, really we're talking about the journey along the distributed architecture we've been trying to build, and it's not moving back and forth, but it's kind of... >> Derek: Circling. >> It's kind of circling, and some of the themes are repeating, but it's growing that along the way, so, give us NATS and messaging, how this plays into helping to solve that communication issue, it's the kind of thing, we read about in the Google papers as to, global distributed architectures. >> Yeah, so, the general gist is that NATS was built to power Cloud Foundry, right, and that was the deployment mechanism for applications and such like that. And NATS, just like a lot of the other technologies, was built for an itch I needed to scratch. And it was a silo technology. So about two years ago, we had the opportunity to actually think about if we wanted to make a business out of NATS, right? And any time you say open source and commercial entity, there's challenges, and I don't think anyone has all of the answers. But the answer we came up with internally as a team was, we need to build something that's value is greater than the sum of its parts. I personally, again, and a lot of people won't agree with me and that's okay, I don't believe in the open core model. I don't believe in the fact that you make certain enterprise features and certain open source features. However, what I do believe is that if we could take a communication technology and make it a true utility, like the global cellular now, or the Internet, and connect everything, we'd have these opportunities that no one could foresee, for example, with the web, or even with the global cellular network and what people think is about to happen with the 5G. So we took NATS, which is a very mature technology, made it multi-tinted, made it very, very forward-looking secure, made it run in any Cloud, Edge, IoT, with the hope that we could encourage people to connect everything, start isolated, but have the ability to say, hey, we want to start sharing data securely in an audited way, that it's drop-dead simple to do. It's not a, let's plan a six-month project to integrate your systems with these systems and things like that, and so that's the gist of what we're trying to do, and we believe that running this thing as a server as such that it's a utility, it's not just something for you or for you or for me, it's that we're all using the same thing and we're all connected if we want to be, we think there's value there. >> Derek, maybe let's go in a little bit on NATS, and the service you're running too, but maybe educate us a little bit on the landscape here. We've already talked about IoT, Cloud data, VAP messaging, and I think people understand, to a certain extent, what a messaging system is, sometimes it gets conflated with a streaming system, maybe you could talk about what NATS does really well, we've talked about security, we've talked about a few other things, you've teased already here, but how should we be thinking about NATS? >> Well, I think, outside of NATS, just in general, any type of way of communications, we need to think secure by default, right? We can't do what happened with the Internet, where we go, ooh, it'd be really nice to do these kind of things, but we need security. And we have to wait, as a group of excited individuals, probably 15 years to get that, we can't do that in this generation with IoT and things. But when you look at NATS, or any technology, there's essentially two types of patterns that anybody wants to support. A service-based pattern, where I ask you a question, you give me an answer, ninety-plus percent of distributed systems today, that's their main architectural pattern. So I'm coordinating and asking a lot of questions of these services, micro-services, you know, has become popular. Streaming is now becoming popular with things like Kafka and stuff like that, it's been around for a while, but that's the second, other pattern. So it's like, I'm emitting events or data streams or things like that, and they could be persisted or not, but essentially if you want to make it simple, it's services and streams, and for us, we wanted technology that did equally well in both of them, right, you didn't have to pick one technology for one pattern and another one for a different one. >> All right, let's talk a little bit about your business. So you talked a little bit about kind of the business model, so explain the business model, what you're doing, how that actually goes together? >> Yeah, and for the viewers, this is our take on it, which means it's advice, you get what you pay for, it's free, type of stuff, but, you know... Been around the block a little bit. So, when we started out, what we didn't want to do is ignore the old models. I don't think a long-term business model is the old models, meaning recurring support, consulting, NRE work type of stuff, but I've also seen startups that ignore that and say, "no, we're not going to do that at all." And I did a little bit of that with my prior company, so we embrace that, but we know long-term that's not going to be it. So we deploy a global network, we have a global network, it's available with a single URL, secure by default, runs in every Cloud, every major GO, and more importantly, you can extend it on your own, on your own servers, with the RN off to do that. And we believe that Saas model, that utility model where, again, its value is greater than the sum of its parts, allows us to keep everything open-source, but there's a value in being connected to this network. Multi-Cloud, Cloud to Edge, all that kind of stuff. And what we want is we want customers to slowly transition to that. I've been telling people there's basic cable, which is like, just the dial tone, then there's going to be premium channels on that, that you can pay for, like storage, DR, secrets, zero-trust mechanisms, anomaly detection around communication patterns. People might opt in and say, "ooh, we want to pay for those things 'cause they're interesting to us." And then the last piece of that pie is, there may be people who are running against the global utility, running their own servers, and they go, "that service right there inside of that system, we love it, we want it on premise, can we actually license it from you?" So it's a combination of softwares and service, license revenue, and recurring support. >> Okay, and so, are you enabling partners to deliver those services, is that Synadia does that themselves, where do those premium services come from? >> So, we're going to seed the market, but yeah, we want it to be an open marketplace, and what we will provide is things like billing and such like that, almost, not exactly, but almost like the app store, the Apple app store, where someone who just wants to write a simple service, and if people like it, they don't have to do much, they just have it run and it's receiving stuff and they just get paid. So we do think that's a federated model. Believe it or not, we also feel running the network on a global scale is also federated. So we've designed it such that we don't have to be the only operators. Matter of fact, if we're successful, we're the smallest operator going forward. But, the system is always interconnected, right, so if John's trying to connect in and he's connecting to a Google server, I can connect to that server also, even though Synadia might have actually granted me the rights to access the system. And so we're working on that, we're thinking about that, but Cloud providers are really good at running infrastructure and running services on that infrastructure. We want to embrace that, we just want to make sure that any user of the system, it's like a SIM card that's unlocked, essentially, right? You could go to any provider that you want and it works, that's what we want to make sure we set up for. >> Right, it seems like a great example of this next wave of companies that's being built on top of the existing Cloud infrastructure. You don't have to be a hoster yourself, you could take advantage of and partner with all the other infrastructure providers and interconnect them in several different ways. Maybe, Derek, could you give us an example of an app, what an app might look like that's globally distributed and what kind of messages would be being passed back and forth? >> Sure, so, we're about to release something on Synadia where we truly believe, at the base of everything, it's just sending messages. And so, most people think of NATS as a communication mechanism, and it is, but when we say storage or state storage, they kind of say, "oh, NATS doesn't do that." But we can send a message to a KV service that says KV.set, and I could send a message that says KV get and get it back. Now, what's interesting is, we can make that zero trust, meaning, it leaves your app totally encrypted, so none of our servers, none of Google, Amazon, or Azure's servers, actually even understand what the heck it is, but what's interesting is, you could connect to any of our servers worldwide, or even run your own servers, and connect to those, and it works, all the time. We have another one that's just a usage server, meaning it tells you how much usage you've been racking up, let's say, over the month, kind of like a cell bill. And the way we built it was, there's multiple servers that are running, collecting this data, totally independent, there's no consensus. Everyone has the same subject, NGS.usage, you send a request saying, "what's my usage for the last hour?" Yet the backend service, guaranteed secure, trusted, it receives a request that it knows it's John, knows it's Stu, knows it's Derek, and so it can say, "oh, I'm trying to get John's usage, I'm trying to get Stu's usage." Yet the user experience is, everyone does the same thing, which we think is extremely powerful. And you don't have to do anything unnatural to get that with a system like NATS, right, where we tried to put security first and really think hard about what it meant, and that wasn't fun, it wasn't easy, but we think it's important. >> Yeah. So, Derek, I want to kind of step up-level a second here, 'cause you've got some great viewpoints on things, so, there's some people that look at a show like this or look at the industry and say, "Ah, there's all this hype around multi-Cloud, but there's a lot of challenges." Does it become least common denominator? How do these things work together? My definition that I've been saying for a while, I'll use a phrase you've used a couple of times. If, for multi-Cloud to be real, the value that I get out of it has to be greater than the sum of its parts. You live through the PaaS and the post-PaaS era, you've done a number of environments here, so where are we today, where do we need to go as an industry, as a whole, to reach that value statement that we talk about? >> Yeah, that's a great question. Even from day one in Cloud Foundry, I've believed in multi-Cloud, but I've watched how the markets have actually reacted and what they are doing, and the first wave in my perspective was, posturing for better pricing. To be honest with you, it was Netflix go, "hey we're going to move to Google unless you give us a better price." And I've seen that time and time again. Where it becomes real, though, is, when there's a class of service in a given Cloud provider, that is extremely attractive. Amazon, just in terms of the breadth, Azure a lot for some of the big data stuff, Google a lot for some of the AI stuff they have. Where an organization has a legitimate use to say "we really need best of breed in AI," best of breed in, let's say, big data, and they want to run an app in Azure and an app in Google, and that's kind of the realest situation I've seen. The notion of running something that's truly oblivious and can run anywhere, it's possible, but your lowest common denominators compute and simple storage, and a lot of times, that's not actually distinguishing. So I still see a lot of pricing pressure, you know, posturing, around multi-Cloud, just as a negotiation tactic. Where I see it being real is, this class of app, we want to run it in this Cloud provider to access these services that are differentiating. >> Derek, you have been around for a few generations of Stack wars, PaaS wars, I don't know that they need a name. Any advice to application architects and technologists who are choosing technologies here? I mean, here at this conference, Kubernetes is kind of a common assumption for a lot of what people are doing, not everybody, but there's a lot of other parts that plug into it, and a lot of other decisions to be made about architectures, and about, everything from messaging, to security, to networking, to storage, and I can go on and on and on and on. So, I mean how... Again, you've seen this happen a couple times, people having to pick and make choices, worried about lock-in, whatever they're worried about, I don't know. What are your thoughts on what's the, what are the right ways to do this so you actually succeed? >> Yeah, you know, it's a great question. And yeah, I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth quite a bit, but I think for the viewers, I can simplify it, at least from my perspective. It goes between choice and simplicity. So if you look in even the PaaS wars versus IaS versus all that stuff, PaaS was a swing towards simplicity, get stuff done, you know what I mean? And then there was like, "oh, I can get stuff done, but I don't have enough choice." So we saw this swing back, and I think Kubernetes hit at the absolute perfect time to take advantage of, "hey, we need choice at these base layers," right? And the way Kubernetes was architected was to give you that full choice. So if a startup's coming along and saying, okay, given the fact that the pendulum's over here, knowing it's going to be swinging back, and at least in my opinion, we're swinging back for simplicity, concentrate on, how do you simplify what people are struggling with today? So at this conference, there's a tremendous amount of people, you can get a lot of insight into what's going on, ask 'em where it hurts, you know what I mean? What are you struggling with? How long have you been struggling with it? And then solve those problems, especially when the pendulum you know is starting to swing back around. Hey, can we do this in a more simplified way, why does it have to be so hard? Those are the big opportunities right now. But again, it'll swing this way, and it'll swing back, eventually it'll get to the middle, and then we'll pick a whole other class of problems to, you know, swing back and forth from. >> Well, you know, it actually, it's not surprising to me that you're actually echoing a comment that Steve Harrod made on the program yesterday, saying when he goes and talks to all the companies here, it's, tell me how you make my life better as a company, and that's what we need to focus on. That wave toward simplicity absolutely is something we see, it's something we've been driving toward from Kubernetes, but an area that you're spending some time in talking about at the keynote, Edge computing. And absolutely, we need simplicity for that to be able to come there. What are you seeing in the Edge space, what's real, customers you're talking to, give us a little bit of forward-looking as where you see that whole space going. >> Yeah, so, I mean, for me, Edge and IoT, you can define it a lot of different ways, but even for enterprise companies that are here, it's, hey, do you deploy a piece of software out into the field, or a hardware/software combination? So, Bose headsets, Peloton bikes, whatever, that's kind of an industrial IoT type of thing. I see a lot of people wanting to drag what they think works in Cloud out to the Edge. Kubernetes works here, we're going to drag it out here. We're just going to slim it up a little bit and package it. I don't know if that's the right answer. What I think we need to think about is how do we get data and compute, compute meaning processing of that data, securely in a trusted fashion out to the Edge, however that works? It doesn't necessarily mean we have to have all the same pieces, but you have to say, I want to push an update and I want it to go over the air so to speak to the Edge, I want to be able to trust that it's doing the right thing. And so I think there's a massive amount of opportunity around that, and in how do you move all those pieces around. And what we're trying to do at Synadia is encompassing both, right? So we started with the secure by default, trusting in the beginning, and then if we say, hey, it's just messages, and in the keynote, I talked a little bit about our excitement around web assembly. But where we get excited about it is, we give you a drop-dead easy system and say, I want to digitally sign that web assembly for use in this certain situation at the Edge. And then that shovels it out there, and the system looks at it, verifies that it was signed by John, and says, yep, I can run this now. And so we're looking very heavily at those types of opportunities. We don't care how the things are deployed per se, but I would say that I think as you get further out, I think you're going to see more common denominators around web assembly, secure and signed web assemblies, than on how we actually deploy them. So you're going to see lighter weight things, not to say that Kubernetes might not have relevance out there, but I don't think it's needed to get to where we want. We need that trust factor, ubiquitous, communications to really kind of light that field up. The other one at least that we feel we need to meet the customer where they're at, is most of the IoT type devices are MQTT. And so we talked also that in Q1, we're going to allow native MQTT apps to connect directly into a NATS server and the NGS ecosystem, meaning you get the best of both worlds as well. Then an Edge router's running a NATS server, could be a raspberry pie, thousands of devices all connecting in, we think that connectivity and trust will light up a lot of opportunities. >> All right, well, Derek, always a pleasure to catch up with you, thanks so much for the updates. >> Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. >> All right. John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more coverage here at Kubecon CloudNativeCon, thanks for watching theCUBE.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> run. Welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I have remote. Sarah Varney is the chief marketing officer Tulio Company. We've covered for many, many years one of the most successful A p I now public company. Um, Sarah, welcome to the Cube competition. Good to see you remotely. You're in San Francisco? Were in Palo Alto. Um, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks so much for having me. >> So you guys have been really a powerhouse company? Twilio. We've been following the rise and success. It just seems just success that the success of success go public stock keeps growing. Big acquisition would send grid for $2,000,000,000 in October. We covered that, but really kind of reading the tea leaves and connecting the dots. It's really the continued evolution of Cloud sas, where AP eyes are becoming Maur and Maur the lingua franca for the next generation way. That's coming, but is going into a whole nother direction. You guys are a big part of that. You're the chief marketing officer. It's >> a hard >> story to tell because it's it's kind of under the hood nerdy, but it's also really big business benefits. So as the c m o. How do you get your arms around that you've been in the business for a while? Take him in to explain the strategy around how you're handling. That's Willie. Oh, Marketing. >> Sure, Yeah. I mean, I do. I agree that, uh, you know, Tulio is >> very much an ingredient brand, but at the same time, everyone is interacting with with in some cheaper form, probably every day, whether or not they realize it or not. If you're getting an appointment reminder from your >> dentist's confirming an appointment, that's probably Tulio behind the scenes, >> if you are communicating with your uber driver to say that you are headed outside that is normally powered by Coolio technology. So even though it might be, ah, technology that exists lower in the stack and something you might not physically see, it is very much something that people everywhere getting every day and you know our goal really is to Leo is to make sure that we're helping companies across the globe from all different types of industries, of all shapes and sizes. to bridge the communication gap with their customers. You know, every day there's a new channel to keep up to speed with. There's a new way that people are customers that are demanding Thio be communicated with. And we want companies to be out in front of that s O that you know, they can connect with their customers on any channel, if that's what's up. If that's SMS. If that's voice, if that's even fax, we want to make that ah possibility. >> I love the Positioning Cloud Communications Company. That's kind of what you guys Air Corps, because you're bringing it all together. And I think you know, the mobile Revolution, starting with the iPhone and 2007. You look at that as a seminal moment and you say OK, mobile device. It's a phone, It's a computer. It's got applications on it. This is a device that's unique to the rest of the infrastructure, but developers and your programming on it, and those things all integrate together. That's where a lot of people kind of saw that for the first time. Then you add cloud to it. Amazon, Microsoft and Google, the top three Amazon dominating really kind of brings a P. I focus even more to make these service's. These Web service is go to a whole nother level on dhe. That's the big wave that we're seeing. I'd >> love to get >> your thoughts and you worked at salesforce dot com, which really pioneered sass. And they were the first real cloud company before you started to see Amazon really cloud infrastructure to service. So Platforms asserts and suffers of service evolve. You were there early. You had a lot of experience working with AP Exchange APP stores early on its sales force. How does that compare to now? What is the trajectory and how does it all connect? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that when I, you know my joke is always that when I started on the APP exchange, its sales force, the Apple App store didn't even exist. So the explosion of mobile devices was just we weren't even. We weren't even there quite yet, and I was working with Iess V's Thio to help them. I think about how they could launch big businesses in the cloud on, I think at that point people were were rotating hard away from the world of on premise, which required a ton of investment of a hardware perspective and service's perspective, and in the process of that, rotated very almost overcorrected towards package solutions. And I think over the last few years what we've seen and something that Tulio is definitely behind and you could see in the vision of our product roadmap he's coming back to the middle, where you have the benefits of the cloud, the speed, the ability to stand something out very quickly. But you also have unlimited customization ability, and you can really put that Theobald ity to build palette for applications that bring the best of different solutions in different applications through a p. I's in the hands of of your developers. Sorry. Go ahead. >> I think that's a great point. I want to just double down on that for a second and ask you how you guys are seeing the developer traction on this because one of the core things that were been reporting over the past couple years this year in particular is the rise of things like Kubernetes Cloud native, where developers now have a seamless way to program the infrastructure, the hard stuff. So you're seeing a faster development cycle for those application developers. Is that where the customization piece comes in? Is that where you guys see that connection point? And what does that mean for customers? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of it. But at a higher level, we really want to empower developers. You create a custom connected journey across >> all different parts of how our customers interacting with the brand. You know, >> if you think about I. I had a recent incident with an airline that will remain nameless, but I I left my laptop on a plane in to get that laptop back. Took multiple calls. Thio the customer service desk. I was bounced around to a bunch of different people. The tracking of that computer was a near impossible. At one point, it traveled from New Jersey, Thio Ireland. You know, there was just so many different points of that journey where there was disconnection and I began to lose trust in this the ability of this customer service department, uh, you know, this This company had an A P I based approach. They could bring all of the data from these different systems from there. >> Your pee from their serum, you know, from their shipping vendor all in one place. And I wouldn't have had that that experience with that particular airline. >> So if you see a P Eyes is a data connector model, really, connecting data sets together fast and easy. >> Ideo. I think it's a way I think developers love working in AP eyes because they can bring all the they can pick the best of breed solutions and bring over that data into one customer united customer experience so that your customer doesn't have >> to do that heavy lifting. It's all there for them. >> You know, one of the things you see from companies like Salesforce pioneering the early days of Assassin Cloud. I mean, even Andy jassy it Amazon many times, and he always uses the expression that they use the Amazon cold you got. You have to be misunderstood for a long time. If you want to be a leader in an emerging Newmarket. You guys that twilio kind of have done that and continue to surpass expectations because you've been kind of skating to where the puck is now, which is the cloud Native Wave. Third party applications, Coyote security all kind of come together for developers. So as a company that's been different and been disruptive as the c m o. >> How do you >> take that? Uh, that that vision in Montreat the next level as you market the solution because you are kind of different. You are not new per se, but you're a new way to create value for customers. How do you go out and tell that story with some of the marketing things that you do? Um, take that twilio to the next level. >> I mean, I personally, in >> my experience, I think, uh, the easiest marking jobs are the ones where you have amazing customer stories and there is no shortage of amazing innovation and our customer base on. And, you know, I think if you think about the companies that are making the news, if that's lift, if that's, you know, cos like Airbnb, they're not. If you think about their business, they're not inventing something. Brando. The Hoover didn't invent the taxi, uh, air being beaten and then a hotel room. But they invented a new way to consume their product to communicate around their product. And, you know, I think it's very easy to show the power of Tulio and how we've evolved through some of these these customer stories. And it's not just the kind of Silicon Valley fast growing, you know, start ups that we're all familiar with here, just just living and being located in the region. But, you know, we're starting to see this more and more in the enterprise as well. Ah, and people really hardest in communication to make sure that that they themselves are not disrupted. >> Yeah, of course. We love that. The enterprise high we've been doing for 10 years now. Everyone talks enterprise because the confidence of consumer ization of I t. Is happening. It's the lines are blurring. Share some customers successors because I think this is a great, great example of just great marketing that the customers do the talking for you. You always got to do this thing. You know the standard operational things and have some a text back and all that good stuff. But at the end of the day, when you have your customer sharing their success, that's really the ultimate testimonial. So share some cool examples of notable customers, if you can. >> Yeah, well, look I mean, we have a wide range, I'll tell you. Three Medtronic, one of the largest medical device companies in the world. They provide a solution for Type one diabetes. They provide a pump that is constantly monitoring the glucose levels in someone's blood. What they've done with Julio's. Now they're layering on messaging capability. So if someone's glucose levels all to a level that's unsafe, they could be messaged. And you know, this is not just for the patient. But if you think of a young child who suffers from Type one diabetes, this could be a very stressful situation for their parents and their caregiving team. And now that team can constantly be in the loop, and they don't have to worry if they are at work and wondering, you know how they're chai that was doing at school. Or, you know, if they're on the soccer field and concerned about you know how, uh, their condition could be affected by them. Participating in that sport s so completely different from your more, um uh, straight down the middle startup that we see here in the Valley. >> So basically, messaging is to keep value. It's not so much a tech thing. It's more of a the outcome. It's a critical service piece toe. Have those kind of real time communications? >> Yes, absolutely. Because, I mean, if you think about >> it monitoring your your, uh, glucose levels, that's not a new phenomenon. People have been doing that for years, but layering on communications on top of this has brought a real time element Thio monitoring this, uh, this condition and has liberated people with this condition so that, you know, they can get back to the things that they've always going to do without having to worry about. You know, the state of their health. It's gone. >> It's like infrastructure is code for devil up you guys air for communications. You make it easy to do that for things like that. Talk about the impact of scale over the years because now you know, we're seeing the data tsunami happen Every day I ot devices air coming on. Everything's got. Ah, a sensor on it. You got doorbells. You got everything out there now has got an I P address and connected in that could potentially be a messaging unit of of data. This is just getting massive. How you guys see scale? And how do you guys getting around the next wave on that piece? >> Yeah. I mean, I think one of the >> huge benefits in working with polio is our super network. So we're constantly maintaining relationships with all the key carriers across the globe to make sure that we can get deliver our to our customers the best routes. And so that means also that they can stand up business virtually anywhere across the globe, a cz, their entry in new markets and coyote. This is especially true for anyone who is in the eye ot space. If you think about the dock Ellis category, companies like lime, uh, who are, you know, delivering rental bike service is where and you know, a market where market share just grabbing as much market share is possible. It seems to be the name of the game. They're able to partner with Julio in bed sim cards and all of their bicycles, and now be able to you track all of those all of those bicycles across the globe as well as scooters. Ah, and then take that information, uh, figure out how customers are engaging with their product and ultimately build a better solution. Long term, >> real time messaging will never go away as values. I see just like data. So it's gonna get faster and larger amounts of messaging making sense of it. Do. The heavy lifting is great story. You guys done a great job. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective. Get the plug in for twilio real quick. What's new with the company employees out? See the public companies? You really can't talk about futures, but what's on your plate? What's on the horizon for Tulio? What's the update? >> Yeah, I mean, the company is >> growing extremely quickly. We're really excited about the context, but center market especially. We launched our flex contact center Solution, uh, was made generally available just this past October. On a CZ you've mentioned we're super excited to welcome sing grid into the family of products you know, really, round out our full set communication in the eyes of people communicate with their customers in any way possible. And I would be, uh, it would be a crime for me, not to mention our user conference coming up this August August 6th and seventh at Mosconi West and that's called Signal s O. I highly encourage you to attend. It's a great opportunity to hear from experts in the communications space and also our customers. >> Well, we love the name signal. Extracting the signal from the noise was our original kind of tag line. Really appreciate it. And with all those customers, must be a hard challenge to have a cup conference, doing the keynote selections and figuring out what to do. What you're gonna have breakout sessions. Just get a little more detail on the event. You're gonna see the stage and customer story's going to break out sections. What's the format for the event? >> Yeah, so it's It's a two day, um, session. At most witty West. We have a number of breakouts. We have hands on training, which we call super class. We have, uh, keynotes. Last year we had an interactive performance with the band. OK, go. Uh, we had the creators of Westworld onstage. Geoff Lawson, our CEO, always kicked the Hoff ER, and it's just a great, exciting two days on, and we also this year, given that were hosting it during the summer time frame, we have ah camp experience for your children. And if you're looking to combine it with a summer vacation so we're super excited about signal, it's, uh, it's, Ah, two of my favorite days of the year from, Ah, Giulio perspective. And I'd love for everyone to come join us. >> We got a great customer success over the years, and great names congratulate Sarah. Thanks for been the time here in the Cube. I'm John Furry here in Palo Alto. Ceremony the chief marketing officer with Julio in San Francisco via remote. Thanks for watching this cute conversation.