>>Hi, everyone. Welcome to this program. Sponsored by HPE. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. We're here talking about being confident and trusting your server security with HPE. I have two guests here with me to talk about this important topic. Cole Humphreys joins us global server security product manager at HPE and Anne Potton trusted supply chain program lead at HPE guys. It's great to have you on the program. Welcome. >>Hi, thanks. Thank you. It's nice to be here, Anne. >>Let's talk about really what's going on there. Some of the trends, some of the threats there's so much change going on. What is HPE seeing? >>Yes. Good question. Thank you. Yeah. You know, cyber security threats are increasing everywhere and it's causing disruption to businesses and governments alike worldwide. You know, the global pandemic has caused limited employee availability. Originally this has led to material shortages and these things opens the door perhaps even wider for more counterfeit parts and products to enter the market. And these are challenges for consumers everywhere. In addition to this, we're seeing the geopolitical environment has changed. We're seeing, you know, rogue nation states using cybersecurity warfare tactics to immobilize an entity's ability to operate and perhaps even use their tactics for revenue generation, the Russian invasion of Ukraine as one example, but businesses are also under attack. You know, for example, we saw solar winds, software supply chain was attacked two years ago, which unfortunately went a notice for several months and then this was followed by the colonial pipeline attack and numerous others. >>You know, it just seems like it's almost a daily occurrence that we hear of a cyber attack on the evening news. And in fact, it's estimated that the cyber crime cost will reach over 10 and a half trillion dollars by 2025 and will be even more profitable than the global transfer of all major illegal drugs combined. This is crazy, you know, the macro environment in which companies operate in has changed over the years. And you know, all of these things together and coming from multiple directions presents a cybersecurity challenge for an organization and in particular it's supply chain. And this is why HPE is taking proactive steps to mitigate supply chain risk so that we can provide our customers with the most secure products and services. >>So Cole, let's bring you into the conversation and did a great job of summarizing the major threats that are going on the tumultuous landscape. Talk to us Cole about the security gap. What is it? What is HPE seeing and why are organizations in this situation? >>Hi, thanks Lisa. You know, what we're seeing is as this threat landscape increases to, you know, disrupt or attempt to disrupt our customers and our partners and ourselves, I, it's a kind of a double edge if you will, because you're seeing the increase in attacks, but what you're not seeing is that equal to growth of the skills and the experiences required to address the scale. So it really puts the pressure on companies because you have a skill gap, a talent gap, if you will. There's, you know, for example, there are projected to be three and a half million cyber roles open in the next few years, right? So all this scale is growing and people are just trying to keep up, but the gap is growing just literally the people to stop the bad actors from attacking the data and, and to complicate matters. You're also seeing a dynamic change of the who and the, how the attacks are happening, right? >>The classic attacks that you've seen, you know, and the SDK and all the, you know, the history books, those are not the standard plays anymore. You'll have, you know, nation states going after commercial entities and, you know, criminal syndicates and alluded to that. There's more money in it than the international drug trade. So you can imagine the amount of criminal interest in getting this money. So you put all that together. And the increasing of attacks, it just is really pressing down is, is literally, I mean, the reports we're reading over half of everyone, obviously the most critical infrastructure cares, but even just mainstream computing requirements need to have their data protected, help me protect my workloads and they don't have the people in house, right? So that's where partnership is needed, right? And that's where we believe, you know, our approach with our partner ecosystem is it's not HPE delivering everything ourself, but all of us in this together is really what we believe. The only way we're gonna be able to get this done. >>So collets double click on that HPE and its partner ecosystem can provide expertise that companies and every industry are lacking. You're delivering HPE as a 360 degree approach to security. Talk about what that 360 degree approach encompasses. >>Thank you. It is, it is an approach, right? Because I feel that security is a, it is a, it is a thread that will go through the entire construct of a technical solution, right there. Isn't a, oh, if you just buy this one server with this one feature, you don't have to worry about anything else. It's really it's everywhere. And at least the way we believe it, it's everywhere. And it in a 360 degree approach, the way we like to frame it is it's, it's this beginning with our supply chain, right? We take a lot of pride in the designs, you know, the really smart engineering teams, the design, our technology, our awesome world class global operations team, working in concert to deliver some of these technologies into the market. That is a huge, you know, great capability, but also a huge risk to customers, cuz that is the most vulnerable place that if you inject some sort of malware or, or tampering at that point, you know, the rest of the story really becomes mute because you've already defeated, right? >>And then you move in to you physically deployed that through our global operations. Now you're in an operating environment. That's where automation becomes key, right? We have software innovations in, you know, our ILO product of management inside those single servers. And we have really cool new grain lake for compute operations management services out there that give customers more control back and more information to deal with this scaling problem. And then lastly, as you begin to wrap up, you know, the natural life cycle and you need to move to new platforms and new technologies, right? We think about the exit of that life cycle and how do we make sure we dispose of the data and, and move those products into a secondary life cycle so that we can move back into this kind of circular 360 degree approach. We don't wanna leave our customers hanging anywhere in this entire journey. >>That 360 degree approach is so critical, especially given as we've talked about already in this segment, the changes, the dynamics in the environment. And as Cole said, this is this 360 degree approach that HPE is delivering is beginning in the manufacturing supply chain seems like the first line of defense against cyber attackers talked to us about why that's important. And where did the impetus come from? Was that COVID was that customer demand? >>Yep. Yep. Yeah. The supply chain is critical. Thank you. So in 2018, we, we could see all of these cybersecurity issues starting to emerge and predicted that this would be a significant challenge for our industry. So we formed a strategic initiative called the trusted supply chain program designed to mitigate cybersecurity risk in the supply chain and really starting at the product with the product life cycle, starting at the product design phase and moving through sourcing and manufacturing, how we deliver products to our customers and ultimately a product's end of life that Cole mentioned. So in doing this, we're able to provide our customers with the most secure products and services, whether they're buying their servers from, for their data center or using our own GreenLake services. So just to give you some examples, something that is foundational to our trusted supply chain program, we've built a very robust cybersecurity supply chain risk management program that includes assessing our risk at our all factories and our suppliers. >>Okay. We're also looking at strengthening our software supply chain by developing mechanisms to identify software vulnerabilities and hardening our own software build environments to protect against counterfeit parts that I mentioned in the beginning from entering our supply chain, we've recently started a blockchain program so that we can identify component provenance and trace part parts back to their original manufacturers. So our security efforts, you know, continue even after product manufacturing, we offer three different levels of secure delivery services for our customers, including, you know, a dedicated truck and driver or perhaps even an exclusive use vehicle. We can tailor our delivery services to whatever the customer needs. And then when a product is at its end of life, products are either recycled or disposed using our approved vendors. So our servers are also equipped with the one button secure erase that erases every bite of data, including firmware data and talking about products, we've taken additional steps to provide additional security features for our products. >>Number one, we can provide platform certificates that allow the user to cryptographically verify that their server hasn't been tampered with from the time it left the manufacturing facility to the time that it arrives at the customer's factory facility. In addition to that, we've launched a dedicated line of trusted supply chain servers with additional security features, including secure configuration lock chassis intrusion detection. And these are assembled at our us factory by us vetted employees. So lots of exciting things happening within the supply chain, not just to shore up our own supply chain risk, but also to provide our customer the most. So that announcement. >>All right, thank you. You know, they've got great setup though, because I think you gotta really appreciate the whole effort that we're putting into, you know, bringing these online. But one of the just transparently the gaps we had as we proved this out was as you heard, this initial proof was delivered with assembly in the us factory employees, you know, fantastic program really successful in all our target industries and, and even expanding to places we didn't really expect it to, but it's kind of going to the point of security. Isn't just for one industry or one set of customers, right? We're seeing it in our partners. We're seeing it in different industries than we have in the past. And, but the challenge was we couldn't get this global right out the gate, right? This has been a really heavy transparently, a us federal activated focus, right? >>If, if you've been tracked in what's going on since may of last year, there's been a call to action to improve a nation cybersecurity. So we've been all in on that and we have an opinion and we're working hard on that, but we're a global company, right? How can we get this out to the rest of the world? Well guess what, this month we figured it out and well, let's take a lot more than those month. We did a lot of work that we figured it out and we have launched a comparable service globally called server security optimization service, right? HPE server security optimization service for proli. I like to call it, you know, S S O S sauce, right? Do you wanna be clever HPE sauce that we can now deploy globally? We get that product hardened in the supply chain, right? Because if you take the best of your supply chain and you take your technical innovations, that you've innovated into the server, you can deliver a better experience for your customers, right? >>So the supply chain equals server technology and our awesome, you know, services teams deliver supply chain security at that last mile. And we can deliver it in the European markets. And now in the Asia Pacific markets right now, we could always just, we could ship it from the us to other markets. So we could always fulfill this promise, but I think it's just having that local access into your partner ecosystem and stuff just makes more sense, but it is big deal for us because now we have activated a meaningful supply chain security benefit for our entire global network of partners and customers, and we're excited about it. And we hope our customers are too. >>That's huge Cole. And, and in terms of this significance of the impact that HPE is delivering through its partner ecosystem globally as the supply chain continues to be one of the terms on everyone's lips here, I'm curious Cole, we just couple months ago, we're at discover. Can you talk about what HPE is doing here from a, a security perspective, this global approach that it's taking as it relates to what HPE was talking about at discover, in terms of we wanna secure the enterprise to deliver these experiences from edge to cloud. >>You know, I feel like for, for me, and, and I think you look at the shared responsibility models and you know, other frameworks out there, the way we're the way I believe it to be is this is it's, it's a solution, right? There's not one thing, you know, if you use HPE supply chain, the end, or if you buy an HPE pro line the end, right. It is an integrated connectedness with our, as a service platform, our service and support commitments, you know, our extensive partner ecosystem, our alliances, all of that comes together to ultimately offer that assurance to a customer. And I think these are specific, meaningful proof points in that chain of custody, right? That chain of trust, if you will, because as the world becomes more, zero trust, we are gonna have to prove ourselves more, right. And these are those kind of technical I credentials and identities and, you know, capabilities that a modern approach to security need. >>Excellent, great work there. And let's go ahead and, and take us home, take the audience through what you think ultimately, what HPE is doing, really infusing security at that 360 degree approach level that we talked about. What are some of the key takeaways that you want the audience that's watching here today to walk away with? >>Right. Right. Thank you. Yeah. You know, with the increase in cyber security threats, everywhere affecting all businesses globally, it's gonna require everyone in our industry to continue to evolve in our supply chain security in our product security in order to protect our customers in our business, continuity protecting our supply chain is something that HPE is very committed to and takes very seriously. So, you know, I think regardless of whether our customers are looking for an on-prem solution or a GreenLake service, you know, HPE is proactively looking for in mitigating any security risk in this supply chain so that we can provide our customers with the most secure products and services. >>Awesome. Ann and Cole. Thank you so much for joining me today, talking about what HPE is doing here and why it's important as our program is called to be confident and trust your server security with HPE and how HPE is doing that. Appreciate your insights on your time. >>Thank you so much for having thank >>You, Lisa, >>For Cole Humphreys and Anne Potton I'm Lisa Martin. We wanna thank you for watching this segment in our series. Be confident and trust your server security with HPE. We'll see you soon.

(upbeat music) >> Hi, everyone, welcome to this program sponsored by HPE. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. We're here talking about being confident and trusting your server security with HPE. I have two guests here with me to talk about this important topic. Cole Humphreys joins us, global server security product manager at HPE, and Ann Potten, trusted supply chain program lead at HPE. Guys, it's great to have you on the program, welcome. >> Hi, thanks. >> Thank you. It's nice to be here. >> Ann let's talk about really what's going on there. Some of the trends, some of the threats, there's so much change going on. What is HPE seeing? >> Yes, good question, thank you. Yeah, you know, cybersecurity threats are increasing everywhere and it's causing disruption to businesses and governments alike worldwide. You know, the global pandemic has caused limited employee availability originally, this has led to material shortages, and these things opens the door perhaps even wider for more counterfeit parts and products to enter the market, and these are challenges for consumers everywhere. In addition to this, we're seeing the geopolitical environment has changed. We're seeing rogue nation states using cybersecurity warfare tactics to immobilize an entity's ability to operate, and perhaps even use their tactics for revenue generation. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is one example. But businesses are also under attack, you know, for example, we saw SolarWinds' software supply chain was attacked two years ago, which unfortunately went unnoticed for several months. And then, this was followed by the Colonial Pipeline attack and numerous others. You know, it just seems like it's almost a daily occurrence that we hear of a cyberattack on the evening news. And, in fact, it's estimated that the cyber crime cost will reach over $10.5 trillion by 2025, and will be even more profitable than the global transfer of all major illegal drugs combined. This is crazy. You know, the macro environment in which companies operate in has changed over the years. And, you know, all of these things together and coming from multiple directions presents a cybersecurity challenge for an organization and, in particular, its supply chain. And this is why HPE is taking proactive steps to mitigate supply chain risk, so that we can provide our customers with the most secure products and services. >> So, Cole, let's bring you into the conversation. Ann did a great job of summarizing the major threats that are going on, the tumultuous landscape. Talk to us, Cole, about the security gap. What is it, what is HPE seeing, and why are organizations in this situation? >> Hi, thanks, Lisa. You know, what we're seeing is as this threat landscape increases to, you know, disrupt or attempt to disrupt our customers, and our partners, and ourselves, it's a kind of a double edge, if you will, because you're seeing the increase in attacks, but what you're not seeing is an equal to growth of the skills and the experiences required to address the scale. So it really puts the pressure on companies, because you have a skill gap, a talent gap, if you will, you know, for example, there are projected to be 3 1/2 million cyber roles open in the next few years, right? So all this scale is growing, and people are just trying to keep up, but the gap is growing, just literally the people to stop the bad actors from attacking the data. And to complicate matters, you're also seeing a dynamic change of the who and the how the attacks are happening, right? The classic attacks that you've seen, you know, in the espionage in all the, you know, the history books, those are not the standard plays anymore. You'll have, you know, nation states going after commercial entities and, you know, criminal syndicates, as Ann alluded to, that there's more money in it than the international drug trade, so you can imagine the amount of criminal interest in getting this money. So you put all that together and the increasing of attacks it just is really pressing down as literally, I mean, the reports we're reading over half of everyone. Obviously, the most critical infrastructure cares, but even just mainstream computing requirements need to have their data protected, "Help me protect my workloads," and they don't have the people in-house, right? So that's where partnership is needed, right? And that's where we believe, you know, our approach with our partner ecosystem this is not HPE delivering everything ourself, but all of us in this together is really what we believe the only way we're going to be able to get this done. >> So, Cole, let's double-click on that, HPE and its partner ecosystem can provide expertise that companies in every industry are lacking. You're delivering HPE as a 360-degree approach to security. Talk about what that 360-degree approach encompasses. >> Thank you, it is an approach, right? Because I feel that security it is a thread that will go through the entire construct of a technical solution, right? There isn't a, "Oh, if you just buy this one server with this one feature, you don't have to worry about anything else." It's really it's everywhere, at least the way we believe it, it's everywhere. And in a 360-degree approach, the way we like to frame it, is it's this beginning with our supply chain, right? We take a lot of pride in the designs, you know, the really smart engineering teams, the designer, technology, our awesome, world-class global operations team working in concert to deliver some of these technologies into the market, that is, you know, a great capability, but also a huge risk to customers. 'Cause that is the most vulnerable place that if you inject some sort of malware or tampering at that point, you know, the rest of the story really becomes mute, because you've already defeated, right? And then, you move in to you physically deployed that through our global operations, now you're in an operating environment. That's where automation becomes key, right? We have software innovations in, you know, our iLO product of management inside those single servers, and we have really cool new GreenLake for compute operations management services out there that give customers more control back and more information to deal with this scaling problem. And then, lastly, as you begin to wrap up, you know, the natural life cycle, and you need to move to new platforms and new technologies, we think about the exit of that life cycle, and how do we make sure we dispose of the data and move those products into a secondary life cycle, so that we can move back into this kind of circular 360-degree approach. We don't want to leave our customers hanging anywhere in this entire journey. >> That 360-degree approach is so critical, especially given, as we've talked about already in this segment, the changes, the dynamics in the environment. Ann, as Cole said, this 360-degree approach that HPE is delivering is beginning in the manufacturing supply chain, seems like the first line of defense against cyberattackers. Talk to us about why that's important and where did the impetus come from? Was that COVID, was that customer demand? >> Yep, yep. Yeah, the supply chain is critical, thank you. So in 2018, we could see all of these cybersecurity issues starting to emerge and predicted that this would be a significant challenge for our industry. So we formed a strategic initiative called the Trusted Supply Chain Program designed to mitigate cybersecurity risk in the supply chain, and really starting with the product life cycle, starting at the product design phase and moving through sourcing and manufacturing, how we deliver products to our customers and, ultimately, a product's end of life that Cole mentioned. So in doing this, we're able to provide our customers with the most secure products and services, whether they're buying their servers for their data center or using our own GreenLake services. So just to give you some examples, something that is foundational to our Trusted Supply Chain Program we've built a very robust cybersecurity supply chain risk management program that includes assessing our risk at all factories and our suppliers, okay? We're also looking at strengthening our software supply chain by developing mechanisms to identify software vulnerabilities and hardening our own software build environments. To protect against counterfeit parts, that I mentioned in the beginning, from entering our supply chain, we've recently started a blockchain program so that we can identify component provenance and trace parts back to their original manufacturers. So our security efforts, you know, continue even after product manufacturing. We offer three different levels of secured delivery services for our customers, including, you know, a dedicated truck and driver, or perhaps even an exclusive use vehicle. We can tailor our delivery services to whatever the customer needs. And then, when a product is at its end of life, products are either recycled or disposed using our approved vendors. So our servers are also equipped with the One-Button Secure Erase that erases every byte of data, including firmware data. And talking about products, we've taken additional steps to provide additional security features for our products. Number one, we can provide platform certificates that allow the user to cryptographically verify that their server hasn't been tampered with from the time it left the manufacturing facility to the time that it arrives at the customer's facility. In addition to that, we've launched a dedicated line of trusted supply chain servers with additional security features, including Secure Configuration Lock, Chassis Intrusion Detection, and these are assembled at our U.S. factory by U.S. vetted employees. So lots of exciting things happening within the supply chain not just to shore up our own supply chain risk, but also to provide our customers with the most secure product. And so with that, Cole, do you want to make our big announcement? >> All right, thank you. You know, what a great setup though, because I think you got to really appreciate the whole effort that we're putting into, you know, bringing these online. But one of the, just transparently, the gaps we had as we proved this out was, as you heard, this initial proof was delivered with assembly in the U.S. factory employees. You know, fantastic program, really successful in all our target industries and even expanding to places we didn't really expect it to. But it's kind of going to the point of security isn't just for one industry or one set of customers, right? We're seeing it in our partners, we're seeing it in different industries than we have in the past. But the challenge was we couldn't get this global right out the gate, right? This has been a really heavy, transparently, a U.S. federal activated focus, right? If you've been tracking what's going on since May of last year, there's been a call to action to improve the nation's cybersecurity. So we've been all in on that, and we have an opinion and we're working hard on that, but we're a global company, right? How can we get this out to the rest of the world? Well, guess what? This month we figured it out and, well, it's take a lot more than this month, we did a lot of work, but we figured it out. And we have launched a comparable service globally called Server Security Optimization Service, right? HPE Server Security Optimization Service for ProLiant. I like to call it, you know, SSOS Sauce, right? Do you want to be clever? HPE Sauce that we can now deploy globally. We get that product hardened in the supply chain, right? Because if you take the best of your supply chain and you take your technical innovations that you've innovated into the server, you can deliver a better experience for your customers, right? So the supply chain equals server technology and our awesome, you know, services teams deliver supply chain security at that last mile, and we can deliver it in the European markets and now in the Asia Pacific markets, right? We could ship it from the U.S. to other markets, so we could always fulfill this promise, but I think it's just having that local access into your partner ecosystem and stuff just makes more sense. But it is a big deal for us because now we have activated a meaningful supply chain security benefit for our entire global network of partners and customers and we're excited about it, and we hope our customers are too. >> That's huge, Cole and Ann, in terms of the significance of the impact that HPE is delivering through its partner ecosystem globally as the supply chain continues to be one of the terms on everyone's lips here. I'm curious, Cole, we just couple months ago, we're at Discover, can you talk about what HPE is doing here from a security perspective, this global approach that it's taking as it relates to what HPE was talking about at Discover in terms of we want to secure the enterprise to deliver these experiences from edge to cloud. >> You know, I feel like for me, and I think you look at the shared-responsibility models and, you know, other frameworks out there, the way I believe it to be is it's a solution, right? There's not one thing, you know, if you use HPE supply chain, the end, or if you buy an HPE ProLiant, the end, right? It is an integrated connectedness with our as-a-service platform, our service and support commitments, you know, our extensive partner ecosystem, our alliances, all of that comes together to ultimately offer that assurance to a customer, and I think these are specific meaningful proof points in that chain of custody, right? That chain of trust, if you will. Because as the world becomes more zero trust, we are going to have to prove ourselves more, right? And these are those kind of technical credentials, and identities and, you know, capabilities that a modern approach to security need. >> Excellent, great work there. Ann, let's go ahead and take us home. Take the audience through what you think, ultimately, what HPE is doing really infusing security at that 360-degree approach level that we talked about. What are some of the key takeaways that you want the audience that's watching here today to walk away with? >> Right, right, thank you. Yeah, you know, with the increase in cybersecurity threats everywhere affecting all businesses globally, it's going to require everyone in our industry to continue to evolve in our supply chain security and our product security in order to protect our customers and our business continuity. Protecting our supply chain is something that HPE is very committed to and takes very seriously. So, you know, I think regardless of whether our customers are looking for an on-prem solution or a GreenLake service, you know, HPE is proactively looking for and mitigating any security risk in the supply chain so that we can provide our customers with the most secure products and services. >> Awesome, Anne and Cole, thank you so much for joining me today talking about what HPE is doing here and why it's important, as our program is called, to be confident and trust your server security with HPE, and how HPE is doing that. Appreciate your insights and your time. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> For Cole Humphreys and Anne Potten, I'm Lisa Martin, we want to thank you for watching this segment in our series, Be Confident and Trust Your Server Security with HPE. We'll see you soon. (gentle upbeat music)

>> Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Data Cloud Summit 2020. We're going to dig into the all-important ecosystem, and focus in little bit on the intersection of the data cloud and trust. And with me are Ann-Christel Graham, AKA A.C., she's the CRO of Talend, and Chris Degnan is the CRO of Snowflake. We have the go-to-market heavies on this section, folks. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yeah, it's our pleasure. And so let's talk about digital transformation, right? Everybody loves to talk about it. It's an overused term, I know, but what does it mean? Let's talk about the vision of the data cloud for Snowflake and digital transformation. A.C., we've been hearing a lot about digital transformation over the past few years. It means a lot of things to a lot of people. What are you hearing from customers? How are they thinking about what I sometimes call DX? And what's important to them, maybe address some of the challenges even that they're facing? >> Dave, that's a great question. To our customers, digital transformation literally means staying in business or not. It's that simple. The reality is most agree on the opportunity to modernize data management infrastructure, that they need to do that to create the speed, and efficiency, and cost savings that digital transformation promises. But now it's beyond that. What's become front and center for our customers is the need for trusted data supported by an agile infrastructure that can allow a company to pivot operations as they need. Let me give you an example of that. One of our customers, a medical device company, was on their digital journey when COVID hit. They started last year in 2019. And as the pandemic hit, at the earlier part of this year, they really needed to take a closer look at their supply chain, and went through an entire supply chain optimization, having been completely disrupted in the, you think about the logistics, the transportation, the location of where they needed to get parts, all those things, when they were actually facing a need to increase production by about 20 times in order to meet the demand. And so you can imagine what that required them to do, and how reliant they were on clean, compliant, accurate data that they could use to make extremely critical decisions for their business. And in that situation, not just for their business, but decisions that would be about saving lives. So the stakes have gotten a lot higher and that's just one industry, it's really across all industries. So when you think about that, really, when you talk to any of our customers, digital transformation really means now having the confidence in data to support the business at critical times with accurate, trusted information. >> I mean, if you're not a digital business today, you're kind of out of business. Chris, I've always said a key part of digital transformation is really putting data at the core of everything. You know, not the manufacturing plant at the core and the data around it, but putting data at the center. And it seems like that's what Snowflake is bringing to the table. Can you comment? >> Yeah, I mean, I think if I look across what's happening, especially as A.C. said, you know, through COVID, is customers are bringing more and more data sets. They want to make smarter business decisions based on making data-driven decisions. And we are seeing acceleration of data moving to the cloud because there's just an abundance of data, and it's challenging to actually manage that data on-premise. And as we see those customers move those large data sets, I think what A.C. said is spot on, is that customers don't just want to have their data in the cloud, but they actually want to understand what the data is, understand who's has access to that data, making sure that they're actually making smart business decisions based on that data set. And I think that's where the partnership between both Talend and Snowflake are really tremendous, where, you know, we're helping our customers bring their data assets to to the cloud, really landing it, and allowing them to do multiple different types of workloads on top of this data cloud platform in Snowflake. And then I think, again, what Talend is bringing to the table is really helping the customer make sure that they trust the data that they're actually seeing. And I think that's a really important aspect of digital transformation today. >> Awesome, and I want to get into the partnership, but I don't want to leave the pandemic just yet. A.C., I want to ask you how it's affected customer priorities and timelines with regard to modernizing their data operations. And what I mean to that, I think about the end-to-end life cycle of going from kind of raw data to insights and how they're approaching those life cycles. Data quality is a key part of it. If you don't have good data quality, I mean, obviously you want to iterate, and you want to move fast, but if it's garbage out, then you got to to start all over again. So what are you seeing in terms of the effect of the pandemic and the urgency of modernizing those data operations? >> Yeah, well, like Chris just said, it accelerated things. For those companies that hadn't quite started their digital journey, maybe it was something that they had budgeted for, but hadn't quite resourced completely, many of them, this is what it took to really get them off the dime from that perspective, because there was no longer the opportunity to wait. They needed to go and take care of this really critical component within their business. So, you know, what COVID I think has taught companies, taught all of us, is how vulnerable even the largest companies and most robust enterprises can be. Those companies that had already begun their digital transformation, maybe even years ago, had already started that process and were in a great position in their journey, they fared a lot better, and we're able to be agile, were able to, you know, shift priorities, were able to go after what they needed to do to run their businesses better and be able to do so with real clarity and confidence. And I think that's really the second piece of it is for the last six months, people's lives have really depended on the data. People's lives have really depended on certainty. The pandemic has highlighted the importance of reliable and trustworthy information, not just the proliferation of data. And as Chris mentioned, just data being available. It's really about making sure that you can use that data as an asset. And that the greatest weapon we all have really there is the information and good information to make great business decisions. >> And, of course, Chris, the other thing we've seen is the acceleration to the cloud, which is obviously you (indistinct) born in the cloud. It's been a real tailwind. What are you seeing in that regard from your, I was going to say in the field, but from your Zoom vantage point. >> (laughs) Yeah, well, I think, you know, A.C. talked about supply chain analytics in her previous example. And I think one of the things that we did is we hosted a dataset, the COVID data set, COVID-19 dataset within Snowflake's data marketplace. And we saw customers that were, you know, initially hesitant to move to the cloud really accelerate their usage of Snowflake in the cloud with this COVID data set. And then we had other customers that are, you know, in the retail space, for example, and use the COVID data set to do supply chain analytics and accelerated, you know, it helped them make smarter business decisions on that. So, I'd say that, you know, COVID has made customers that were maybe hesitant to start their journey in the cloud move faster. And I've seen that, you know, really go at a blistering pace right now. >> You know, A.C., you just talked about value, 'cause it's all about value, but you know, the old days of data quality and the early days of chief data officer, all the focus was on risk avoidance, how do I get rid of data, how long do I have to keep it? And that has flipped dramatically, you know, sometime during the last decade. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. 'Cause I know you talk to a lot of CDOs out there, and have you seen that flip, where the value piece is really dwarfing that risk piece? And not that you can ignore the risk, but that's almost table stakes. What are your thoughts? >> You know, that's interesting, saying it's almost table stakes. I think you can't get away too much from the need for quality data and governed data. I think that's the first step, you can't really get to trust the data without those components. And, but to your point, the chief data officer's role, I would say, has changed pretty significantly. And in the round tables that I've participated in over the last, you know, several months, it's certainly a topic that they bring to the table that they'd like to, you know, chat with their peers about in terms of how they're navigating through the balance, that they still need to manage to the quality, they still need to manage to the governance, they still need to ensure that they're delivering that trusted information to the business. But now on the flip side as well, they're being relied upon to bring new insights and it's really requiring them to work more cross-functionally than they may have needed to in the past, where that's become a big part of their job is being that evangelist for data, the evangelist for those insights, and being able to bring in new ideas for how the business can operate. And identify, you know, not just operational efficiencies, but revenue opportunities, ways that they can shift. All you need to do is take a look at, for example, retail. You know, retail was heavily impacted by the pandemic this year, and it shows how easily an industry can be just kind of thrown off its course simply by just a significant change like that. And they need to be able to adjust. And this is where, when I've talked to some of the CDOs of the retail customers that we work with, they've had to really take a deep look at how they can leverage the data at their fingertips to identify new and different ways in which they can respond to customer demands. So it's a whole different dynamic, for sure. It doesn't mean that you walk away from the other end, the original part of the role or the areas in which they were maybe more defined a few years ago when the role of the chief data officer became very popular. I do believe it's more of a balance at this point, and really being able to deliver great value to the organization with the insights that they can bring. >> Well A.C., stay on that for a second. So you have this concept of data health, and I guess what I'm kind of getting at is that the early days of big data, Hadoop, it was just a lot of rogue efforts going on. People realized, wow, there there's no governance. And what's what seems like with Snowflake and Talend are trying to do is to make that so the business doesn't have to worry about it, build that in, don't bolt it on. But what's this notion of data health that you talk about? >> Well, it's interesting. Companies can measure and do measure just about everything, every aspect of their business health. Except what's interesting is they don't have a great way to measure the health of their data. And this is an asset that they truly rely on. Their future depends on is that health of their data. And so if we take a little bit of a step back, maybe let's take a look at an example of a customer experience just to kind of make a little bit of a delineation between the differences of data quality, data trust, and what data health truly is. We work with a lot of hotel chains, and like all companies today, hotels collect a ton of information. There's mountains of information, private information about their customers, through the loyalty clubs, and all the information that they collect from their the front desk, the systems that store their data. You can start to imagine the amount of information that a hotel chain has about an individual. And frequently, that information has errors in it, such as duplicate entries, you know, is it A.C. Graham, or is it Ann-Christel Graham? Same person, slightly different, depending on how I might've looked, or how I might've checked in at the time. And sometimes the data's also mismanaged, where because it's in so many different locations, it could be accessed by the wrong person, if someone that wasn't necessarily intended to have that kind of visibility. And so these are examples of when you look at something like that, now you're starting to get into, you know, privacy regulations, and other kinds of things that can be really impactful to a business if data's in the wrong hands or if the wrong data is in the wrong hands. So, you know, in a world of misinformation and mistrust, which is around us every single day, Talend has really invented a way for businesses to verify the veracity, the accuracy of their data. And that's where data health really comes in is being able to use a trust score to measure the data health. And that's what we've recently introduced is this concept of the trust score, something that can actually provide and measure the accuracy and the health of the data, all the way down to an individual report. And we believe that that truly provides the explainable trust, issue resolution, the kinds of things that companies are looking for in that next stage of overall data management. >> Thank you. Chris, bring us home. So one of the key aspects of what Snowflake is doing is building out the ecosystem. It's very, very important. Maybe talk about how you guys are partnering and adding value, in particular things that you're seeing customers do today within the ecosystem or with the help of the ecosystem and Snowflake, that they weren't able to do previously? >> Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, A.C. mentioned it, you mentioned it. I spend a lot of my Zoom days talking to chief data officers. And as I'm talking to these chief data officers, they are so concerned, their responsibility on making sure that the business users are getting accurate data, so that they view that as data governance, as one aspect of it. But the other aspect is the circumference of the data, of where it sits, and who has access to that data, and making sure it's super secure. And I think, you know, Snowflake is a tremendous landing spot, being a data warehouse or a cloud data platform as a service. You know, we take care of all the securing that data. And I think where Talend really helps our customer base is helps them exactly what A.C. talked about, is making sure that myself as a business user, someone like myself, who's looking at data all the time, trying to make decisions on how many salespeople I want to hire, how's my forecast coming, you know, how's the product working, all that stuff. I need to make sure that I'm actually looking at good data. And I think the combination of it all sitting in a single repository like Snowflake, and then layering a tool like Talend on top of it where I can actually say, yeah, that is good data, it helps me make smarter decisions faster. And ultimately, I think that's really where the ecosystem plays an incredibly important role for Snowflake and our customers >> Guys, two great guests. I wish we had more time, but we got to go. And so thank you so much for sharing your perspectives, a great conversation. >> Thank you for having us, Dave. >> Thanks Dave. >> All right, and thank you for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with more from The Data Cloud Summit 2020.

>>Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the data cloud. Summer 2020. We're >>gonna >>dig into the all important ecosystem and focusing a little bit on the intersection of the data Cloud and trust and with Me are and Crystal Graham, aka A C. She's the C R O of talent, and Chris Degnan is the C R. O of Snowflake. We have to go to market heavies on this section, folks. Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>Thanks for having us. >>That's our pleasure. And so let's let's talk about digital transformation, right? Everybody loves to talk about it. It zone overused term. I know, but what does it mean? Let's talk about the vision of the data cloud for snowflake and digital transformation. A. C. We've been hearing a lot about digital transformation over the past few years. It means a lot of things to a lot of people. What are you hearing from customers? How are they thinking about when I come, sometimes called DX and what's important to them? Maybe address some of the challenges even that they're facing where you >>thought. Absolutely. Dave, you know, digital transformation means literally staying in business or not. Um, That's what you hear from customers. Thes days. Eso, you know, most still agree on that. The opportunity Thio modernized data management, bringing efficiencies and scale and cost savings through digital transformation. But now it's really beyond that. What's become front and center is the need for trusted data. Um, and you know, one of the things we could talk a little bit about their Let me give you an example what that means. It's It's really having a agile infrastructure that will allow a company to pivot operations as they need. There's a company that I recently spoke with one of our customers that's in a medical device in the medical device industry, and they had started their digital journey last year. Um, so they were in a really good position when Cove it hit in February. At the time, they needed to take a complete look at their supply chain and optimize it. In fact, they needed to find ways that they could really change their production to a degree of about 20 times more in a given day thing, what they had been doing prior to co vid. And so when you think about what that required them to do. They really needed to rely on trusted, clean, compliant data, um, in an agile, ready to adapt infrastructure. And that's really what digital transformation was to them. And I think that's an example of when you talk to customers today, and they define what digital transformation means to them. You'll find examples like that that demonstrate that in times it's it's really about the difference between, you know, life or death saving lives, staying in business. >>Right? Well, thank you for that. And you're right on. I mean, if you're not a digital business today, you're kind of out of business. And, Chris, I've always said a key part of digital transformation is really putting data at the core of everything. You know, Not not the manufacturing plant, that the core in the data around it, but putting data at the center. It seems like that's what Snowflake is bringing to the table. Can you comment? >>Yeah. I mean, I think if if I look across what's happening and especially a Z A. C said you know, through co vid is customers are bringing more and more data sets. They wanna make smarter business decisions based on data making data driven decisions. And we're seeing acceleration of data moving to the cloud because there's just an abundance of data and it's challenging to actually manage that data on premise and and, as we see those, those customers move those large data sets. Think what A C said is spot on is that customers don't just want to have their data in the cloud. But they actually want to understand what the data is, understand, who has access to that data, making sure that they're actually making smart business decisions based on that data. And I think that's where the partnership between both talent and snowflake are really tremendous, where you know we're helping our customers bring their data assets to to the cloud, really landing it and allowing them to do multiple, different types of workloads on top of this data cloud platform and snowflake. And then I think again what talent is bringing to the table is really helping the customer make sure that they trust the data that they're actually seeing. And I think that's a really, um, important aspect of digital transformation today. >>Awesome and I want to get into the partnership, but I don't wanna leave the pandemic just yet. I wanna ask you how it's affected customer priorities and timelines with regard to modernizing their data operations. And what I mean to that I think about the end and life cycle of going from raw data insights and how they're approaching those life cycles. Data quality is a key part of If you have good data quality, you're gonna I mean, obviously you want to reiterate and you wanna move fast. But if if it's garbage out, then you got to start all over again. So what are you seeing in terms of the effect of the pandemic and the urgency of modernizing those data operations? >>Yeah, but like Chris just said it accelerated things for those companies that hadn't quite started their digital journey. Maybe it was something that they had budgeted for but hadn't quite resourced completely many of them. This is what it took to to really get them off the dying from that perspective, because there was no longer the the opportunity to wait. They needed to go and take care of this really critical component within their their business. So, um, you know what? What cove? In I think has taught cos. Taught all of us is how vulnerable even the largest. Um, you know, companies on most robust enterprises could be, um, those companies that had already begun their digital transformation, maybe even years ago had already started that process. And we're in a better. We're in a great position in their journey. They fared a lot better, and we're able to be agile. Were able Thio in a shift. Priorities were able to go after what they needed to do toe to run their businesses better and be able to do so with riel clarity and confidence. And I think that's really the second piece of it is, um, for the last six months, people's lives have really depended on the data people's lives that have really dependent on uncertainty. The pandemic has highlighted the importance of reliable and trustworthy information, not just the proliferation of data. And as Chris mentioned this data being available, it's really about making sure that you can use that data as an asset Ondas and and that the greatest weapon we all have, really there is the information and good information to make great business decisions. >>Of course, Chris The other thing we've seen is the acceleration toe, the cloud, which is obviously you're born in the cloud. It's been a real tailwind. What are you seeing in that regard from your I was gonna say in the field. But from your zoom vantage >>point? Yeah, well, I think you know, a C talked about supply chain, um, analytics in in her previous example. And I think one of the things that we did is we hosted a data set. The covert data set over 19 data set within snowflakes, data marketplace. And we saw customers that were, you know, initially hesitant to move to the cloud really accelerate. They're used to just snowflake in the cloud with this cove. It covert data set on Ben. We had other customers that are, you know, in the retail space, for example, and use the cova data set to do supply chain analytics and and and accelerated. You know, it helped them make smarter business decisions on that. So So I'd say that you know, Cove, it has, you know, made customers that maybe we're may be hesitant to to start their journey in the cloud, move faster. And I've seen that, you know, really go at a blistering pace right now. >>You know, you just talked about value because it's all about value. But the old days of data quality in the early days of Chief Data officer, all the focus was on risk avoidance. How do I get rid of data? How long do I have to keep it? And that has flipped dramatically. You know, sometime during the last decade, I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit because I know you talked to a lot of CDOs out there. And have you seen that that flip, that where the value pieces really dwarfing that risk, peace. And not that you can. You can ignore the risk that. But that's almost table stakes. What are your thoughts? >>Um, you know, that's interesting. Saying it's it's almost table stakes. I think we can't get away too much from the need for quality data and and govern data. I think that's the first step. You can't really get to, um, you know, to trust the data without those components. And but to your point, the chief data officers role, I would say, has changed pretty significantly and in the round tables that I've participated in over the last, you know, several months. It's certainly a topic that they bring to the table that they'd like Thio chat with their peers about in terms of how they're navigating through the balance that they still need. Thio manage to the quality they still need to manage to the governance. They still need toe to ensure that that they're delivering, um, that trusted information to the business. But now, on the flip side as well, they're being relied upon to bring new insights. And that's, um, it Z really require them to work more cross functionally than they may have needed to in the past. Where that's been become a big part of their job is being that evangelist for data the evangelist. For that, those insights and being able to bring in new ideas for how the business can operate and identified, you know, not just not just operational efficiencies, but revenue opportunities, ways that they can shift. All you need to do is take a look at, for example, retail. Um, you know, retail was heavily impacted by the pandemic this year on git shows how easily an industry could be could be just kind of thrown off its course simply by by a just a significant change like that. They need to be able to to adjust. And this is where, um, when I've talked to some of the CEOs of the retail customers that we work with, they've had to really take a deep look at how they can leverage their the data at their fingertips to identify new in different ways in which they can respond to customer demands. So it's a it's a whole different dynamic for sure. It doesn't mean that that you walk away from the other and the original part of the role of the or the areas in which they were maybe more defined a few years ago when the role of the chief data officer became very popular. I do believe it's more of a balance at this point and really being able to deliver great value to the organization with the insights that they could bring >>Well, a C stay on that for a second. So you have this concept of data health, and I guess what kind of getting tad is that the early days of big data Hadoop. It was a lot of rogue efforts going on. People realize, Wow, there's no governance And what what seems like what snowflake and talent are trying to do is to make that the business doesn't have to worry about it. Build that in, don't bolted on. But what's what's this notion of of data health that you talk about? >>Well, the companies you know, it's it's It's interesting Cos can measure and do measure just about everything, every aspect of their business. Health. Um, except what's interesting is they don't have a great way to measure the health of their data. And this is an asset that they truly rely on. Their future depends on is that health of their data? And so if we take a little bit of a step back, maybe let's take a look at an example of a customer experiences to kind of make a little bit of a delineation between the differences of data data, quality data, trust on what data health truly is, We work with a lot of health, a lot of hotel chains, and like all companies today, hotels collect a ton of information. There's mountains of information. Um private information about their customers through the loyalty clubs and all the information that they collect from there the front desk, the systems that store their data. You can start to imagine the amount of information that a hotel chain has about an individual. And, uh, frequently that information has, you know, errors in it, such as duplicate entries, you know. Is it a Seagram or is it in Chris Telegram? Same person, Slightly different, depending on how I might have looked or how I might have checked in at the time. And sometimes the data is also mismanaged, where because it's in so many different locations, it could be accessed by the wrong person of someone that wasn't necessarily intended to have that kind of visibility. And so these are examples of when you look at something like that. Now you're starting to get into, um, you know, privacy regulations and other kinds of things that could be really impactful to a business if data is in the wrong hands or the wrong data is in the wrong hands. So you know, in a world of misinformation and mistrust, which is around us every single day, um, talent has really invented a way for businesses to verify the veracity, the accuracy of their data. And that's where data health really comes in is being able to use a trust score to measure the data health on. That's what we have recently introduced. Is this concept of the trust score, something that can actually provide and measure the accuracy and the health of the data all the way down to an individual report on? We believe that that that truly, you know, provides the explainable trust issue resolution, the kinds of things that companies are looking for in that next stage of overall data management. >>Thank you, Chris. Bring us home. So one of the key aspects of what snowflake is doing is building out the ecosystem is very, very important. Maybe talk about how how you guys air partnering and adding value in particular things that you're seeing customers do today within the ecosystem or with the help of the ecosystem and stuff like that they weren't able to do previously. >>Yeah. I mean, I think you know a C mentioned it. You mentioned it. You know, we spent I spent a lot of my zoom days talking Thio chief data officers and as I'm talking to the chief data officers that they are so concerned their responsibility on making sure that the business users air getting accurate data so that they view that as data governance is one aspect of it. But the other aspect is the circumference of the data of where it sits and who has access to that data and making sure it's super secure. And I think you know, snowflake is a tremendous landing spot, being a data warehouse or data cloud data platform as a service, you know, we take care of all, you know, securing that data. And I think we're talent really helps our customer base is helps them. Exactly what it is he talked about is making sure that you know myself as a business users someone like myself who's looking at data all the time, trying to make decisions on how many sales people I wanna hire. How's my forecast coming? How's the product working all that stuff? I need to make sure that I'm actually looking at at good data, and I think the combination of all sitting in a single repository like snowflake and then layering it on top or laying a tool like talent on top of it, where I can actually say, Yeah, that is good data. It helps me make smarter decisions faster. And ultimately, I think that's really where the ecosystem plays. An incredibly important, important role for snowflake in our customers, >>guys to great guests. I wish we had more time, but we got to go on. DSo Thank you so much for sharing your perspective is a great conversation. >>Thank you for having a Steve. >>All right. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with more from the data cloud Summit 2020.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE Conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody Jeffrey Frick with theCUBE. We are getting through the COVID crisis. It continues and impacting the summer. I can't believe the summer's almost over, but there's a whole lot of things going on in terms of privacy and contact tracing and this kind of this feeling that there's this conflict between kind of personal identification and your personal privacy versus the public good around things like contact tracing. And I was in a session last week with two really fantastic experts. I wanted to bring them on the show and we're really excited to have back for I don't even know how many times Michelle has been on Michelle Dennedy, She is the former chief privacy officer at Cisco and now she's running the CEO of Identity, Michelle great to see you. >> Good to see you always Jeff >> Yeah and for the first time Dr. Ann Cavoukian and she is the executive director Global Privacy & Security By Design Center. Joining us from Toronto, worked with the government and is not short on opinions about privacy. (laughing) Ann good to see you. >> Hi Jeff thank you >> Yes, so let's jump into it cause I think one of the fundamental issues that we keep hearing is this zero-sum game. And I know and it's a big topic for you that there seems to be this trade off this either or and specifically let's just go to contact tracing. Cause that's a hot topic right now with COVID. I hear that it's like you're telling everybody where I'm going and you're sharing that with all these other people. How is this even a conversation and where do I get to choose whether I want to participate or not? >> You can't have people traced and tracked and surveil. You simply can't have it and it can't be an either or win lose model. You have to get rid of that data. Zero-sum game where only one person can win and the other one loses and it sums to a total of zero. Get rid of that, that's so yesterday. You have to have both groups winning positive sum. Meaning yes, you need public health and public safety and you need privacy. It's not one versus the other. We can do both and that's what we insist upon. So the contact term tracing app that was developed in Canada was based on the Apple Google framework, which is actually called exposure notification. It's totally privacy protective individuals choose to voluntarily download this app. And no personal information is collected whatsoever. No names, no geolocation data, nothing. It's simply notifies you. If you've been exposed to someone who is COVID-19 positive, and then you can decide on what action you wish to take. Do you want to go get tested? Do you want to go to your family doctor, whatever the decision lies with you, you have total control and that's what privacy is all about. >> Jeffrey: But what about the person who was sick? Who's feeding the top into that process and is the sick person that you're no notifying they obviously their personal information is part of that transaction. >> what the COVID alerts that we developed based on the Apple Google framework. It builds on manual contact tracing, which also take place the two to compliment each other. So the manual contact tracing is when individuals go get to get tested and they're tested as positive. So healthcare nurses will speak to that individual and say, please tell us who you've been in contact with recently, family, friends, et cetera. So the two work together and by working together, we will combat this in a much more effective manner. >> Jeffrey: So shifting over to you Michelle, you know, there's PIN and a lot of conversations all the time about personal identifiable information but right. But then medical has this whole nother class of kind of privacy restrictions and level of care. And I find it really interesting that on one hand, you know, we were trying to do the contract tracing on another hand if you know, my wife works in a public school. If they find out that one of the kids in this class has been exposed to COVID somehow they can't necessarily tell the teacher because of HIPAA restriction. So I wonder if you could share your thoughts on this kind of crossover between privacy and health information when it gets into this kind of public crisis and this inherent conflict for the public right to know and should the teacher be able to be told and it's not a really clean line with a simple answer, I don't think. >> No and Jeff, and you're also layering, you know, when you're talking about student data, you layering another layer of legal restriction. And I think what you're putting your thumb on is something that's really critical. When you talk about privacy engineering, privacy by design and ethics engineering. You can't simply start with the legal premise. So is it lawful to share HIPAA covered data. A child telling mommy I don't feel well not HIPAA covered. A child seeing a doctor for medical services and finding some sort of infection or illness covered, right? So figuring out the origin of the exact same zero one. Am I ill or not, all depends on context. So you have to first figure out, first of all let's tackle the moral issues. Have we decided that it is a moral imperative to expose certain types of data. And I separate that from ethics intentionally and with apologies to true ethicists. The moral imperative is sort of the things we find are so wrong. We don't want a list of kids who are sick or conversely once the tipping point goes the list of kids who are well. So then they are called out that's the moral choice. The ethical choice is just because you can should you, and that's a much longer conversation. Then you get to the legal imperative. Are you allowed to based on the past mistakes that we made. That's what every piece of litigation or legislation is particularly in a common law construct in the US. It's very important to understand that civil law countries like the European theater. They try to prospectively legislate for things that might go wrong. The construct is thinner in a common law economy where you do, you use test cases in the courts of law. That's why we are such a litigious society has its own baggage. But you have to now look at is that legal structure attempting to cover past harms that are so bad that we've decided as a society to punish them, is this a preventative law? And then you finally get to what I say is stage four for every evaluation is isn't viable, are the protections that you have to put on top of these restrictions. So dire that they either cannot be maintained because of culture process or cash or it just doesn't make sense anymore. So does it, is it better to just feel someone's forehead for illness rather than giving a blood assay, having it sent away for three weeks and then maybe blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. >> Right. >> You have to look at this as a system problem solving issue. >> So I want to look at it in the context of, again kind of this increased level of politicization and or, you know, kind of exposure outside of what's pretty closed. And I want to bring up AIDS and the porn industry very frankly right? Where people behaving in the behavior of the business risk a life threatening disease of which I still don't think it as a virus. So you know why, cause suddenly, you know, we can track for that and that's okay to track for that. And there's a legitimate reason to versus all of the other potential medical conditions that I may or may not have that are not necessarily brought to bear within coming to work. And we might be seeing this very soon. As you said, if people are wanting our temperatures, as we come in the door to check for symptoms. How does that play with privacy and healthcare? It's still fascinates me that certain things is kind of pop out into their own little bucket of regulation. I'm wondering if you could share your thoughts on that Ann. >> You know, whenever you make it privacy versus fill in the blank, especially in the context of healthcare. You end up turning it to a lose lose as opposed to even a win lose. Because you will have fewer people wanting to allow themselves to be tested, to be brought forward for fear of where that information may land. If it lands in the hands of your employer for example or your whoever owns your house if you're in renting, et cetera. It creates enormous problems. So regardless of what you may think of the benefits of that model. History has shown that it doesn't work well that people end up shying away from being tested or seeking treatment or any of those things. Even now with the contact tracing apps that have been developed. If you look globally the contact tracing apps for COVID-19. They have failed the ones that identify individuals in the UK, in Australia, in Western Canada that's how it started out. And they've completely dropped them because they don't work. People shy away from them. They don't use them. So they've gotten rid of that. They've replaced it with the, an app based on the Apple Google framework, which is the one that protects privacy and will encourage people to come forward and seek to be tested. If there's a problem in Germany. Germany is one of the largest privacy data protection countries in the world. Their privacy people are highly trusted in Germany. Germany based their app on the Apple Google framework. About a month ago they released it. And within 24 hours they had 6.5 million people download the app. >> Right. >> Because there is such trust there unlike the rest of the world where there's very little trust and we have to be very careful of the trust deficit. Because we want to encourage people to seek out these apps so they can attempt to be tested if there's a problem, but they're not going to use them. They're just going to shy away from them. If there is such a problem. And in fact I'll never forget. I did an interview about a month ago, three weeks ago in the US on a major major radio station that has like 54 million people followers. And I was telling them about the COVID alert the Canadian contact tracing app, actually it's called exposure notification app, which was built on the Apple Google framework. And people in hoard said they wouldn't trust anyone with it in the US. They just wouldn't trust it. So you see there's such a trust deficit. That's what we have to be careful to avoid. >> So I want to hold on the trust for just a second, but I want to go back to you Michelle and talk about the lessons that we can learn post 9/11. So the other thing right and keep going back to this over and over. It's not a zero-sum game. It's not a zero-sum game and yet that's the way it's often positioned as a way to break down existing barriers. So if you go back to 9/11 probably the highest profile thing being the Patriot Act, you know, where laws are put in place to protect us from terrorism that are going to do things that were not normally allowed to be done. I bet without checking real exhaustively that most of those things are still in place. You know, cause a lot of times laws are written. They don't go away for a long time. What can we learn from what happened after 9/11 and the Patriot Act and what should be really scared of, or careful of or wary of using that as a framework for what's happening now around COVID and privacy. >> It's a perfect, it's not even an analogy because we're feeling the shadows of the Patriot Act. Even now today, we had an agreement from the United States with the European community until recently called the Privacy Shield. And it was basically if companies and organizations that were, that fell under the Federal Trade Commissions jurisdiction, there's a bit of layering legal process here. But if they did and they agreed to supply enough protection to data about people who were present in the European Union to the same or better level than the Europeans would. Then that information could pass through this Privacy Shield unencumbered to and from the United States. That was challenged and taken down. I don't know if it's a month ago or if it's still March it's COVID time, but very recently on basis that the US government can overly and some would say indifferent nations, improperly look at European data based on some of these Patriot Act, FISA courts and other intrusive mechanisms that absolutely do apply if we were under the jurisdiction of the United States. So now companies and private actors are in the position of having to somehow prove that they will mechanize their systems and their processes to be immune from their own government intrusion before they can do digital trade with other parts of the world. We haven't yet seen the commercial disruption that will take place. So the unintended consequence of saying rather than owning the answers or the observations and the intelligence that we got out of the actual 9/11 report, which said we had the information we needed. We did not share enough between the agencies and we didn't have the decision making activity and will to take action in that particular instance. Rather than sticking to that knowledge. Instead we stuck to the Patriot Act, which was all but I believe to Congress people. When I mean, you see the hot mess. That is the US right now. When everyone but two people in the room vote for something on the quick. There's probably some sort of a psychological gun to your head. That's probably well thought out thing. We fight each other. That's part of being an American dammit. So I think having these laws that say, you've got to have this one solution because the boogeyman is coming or COVID is coming or terrorists or child pornographers are coming. There's not one solution. So you really have to break this down into an engineering problem and I don't mean technology when I say engineering. I mean looking at the culture, how much trust do you have? Who is the trusted entity? Do we trust Microsoft more than we trust the US government right now? Maybe that might be your contact. How you're going to build people, process and technology not to avoid a bad thing, but to achieve a positive objective because if you're not achieving that positive objective of understanding that safe to move about without masks on, for example, stop, just stop. >> Right, right. My favorite analogy Jeff, and I think I've said this to you in the past is we don't sit around and debate the merits of viscosity of water to protect concrete holes. We have to make sure that when you lead them to the concrete hole, there's enough water in the hole. No, you're building a swimming pool. What kind of a swimming pool do you want? Is it commercial, Is it toddlers? Is it (indistinct), then you build in correlation, protection and da da da da. But if you start looking at every problem as how to avoid hitting a concrete hole. You're really going to miss the opportunity to build and solve the problem that you want and avoid the risk that you do not want. >> Right right, and I want to go back to you on the trust thing. You got an interesting competent in that other show, talking about working for the government and not working directly for the people are voted in power, but for the kind of the larger bureaucracy and agency. I mean, the Edelman Trust Barometer is really interesting. They come out every year. I think it's their 20th year. And they break down kind of like media, government and business. And who do you trust and who do you not trust? What what's so fascinating about the time we're in today is even within the government, the direction that's coming out is completely diametrically opposed oftentimes between the Fed, the state and the local. So what does kind of this breakdown of trust when you're getting two different opinions from the same basic kind of authority due to people's ability or desire to want to participate and actually share the stuff that maybe or maybe not might get reshared. >> It leaves you with no confidence. Basically, you can't take confidence in any of this. And when I was privacy commissioner. I served for three terms, each term that was a different government, different political power in place. And before they had become the government, they were all for privacy and data protection believed in and all that. And then once they became the government all that changed and all of a sudden they wanted to control everyone's information and they wanted to be in power. No, I don't trust government. You know, people often point to the private sector as being the group you should distrust in terms of privacy. I say no, not at all. To me far worse is actually the government because everyone thinks they're there to do good job and trust them. You can't trust. You have to always look under the hood. I always say trust but verify. So unfortunately we have to be vigilant in terms of the protections we seek for privacy both with private sector and with the government, especially with the government and different levels of government. We need to ensure that people's privacy remains intact. It's preserved now and well into the future. You can't give up on it because there's some emergency a pandemic, a terrorist incident whatever of course we have to address those issues. But you have to insist upon people's privacy being preserved. Privacy forms the foundation of our freedom. You cannot have free and open societies without a solid foundation of privacy. So I'm just encouraging everyone. Don't take anything at face value, just because the government tells you something. It doesn't mean it's so always look under the hood and let us ensure the privacy is strongly protected. See emergencies come and go. The pandemic will end. What cannot end is our privacy and our freedom. >> So this is a little dark in here, but we're going to lighten it up a little bit because there's, as Michelle said, you know, if you think about building a pool versus putting up filling a hole, you know, you can take proactive steps. And there's a lot of conversation about proactive steps and I pulled Ann your thing Privacy by Design, The 7 Foundational Principles. I have the guys pull up a slide. But I think what's really interesting here is, is you're very, very specific prescriptive, proactive, right? Proactive, not reactive. Privacy is the default setting. You know, don't have to read the ULAs and I'm not going to read the, all the words we'll share it. People can find it. But what I wanted to focus on is there is an opportunity to get ahead of the curve, but you just have to be a little bit more thoughtful. >> That's right, and Privacy By Design it's a model of prevention, much like a medical model of prevention where you try to prevent the harms from arising, not just deal with them after the facts through regulatory compliance. Of course we have privacy laws and that's very important, but they usually kick in after there's been a data breach or privacy infraction. So when I was privacy commissioner obviously those laws were intact and we had to follow them, but I wanted something better. I wanted to prevent the privacy harms from arising, just like a medical model of prevention. So that's a Privacy By Design is intended to do is instantiate, embed much needed privacy protective measures into your policies, into your procedures bake it into the code so that it has a constant presence and can prevent the harms from arising. >> Jeffrey: Right right. One of the things I know you love to talk about Michelle is compliance, right? And is compliance enough. I know you like to talk about the law. And I think one of the topics that came up on your guys' prior conversation is, you know, will there be a national law, right? GDPR went through on the European side last year, the California Protection Act. A lot of people think that might become the model for more of a national type of rule. But I tell you, when you watch some of the hearings in DC, you know, I'm sure 90% of these people still print their emails and have their staff hand them to them. I mean, it's really scary that said, you know, regulation always does kind of lag probably when it needs to be put in place because people maybe abuse or go places they shouldn't go. So I wonder if you could share your thoughts on where you think legislation is going to going and how should people kind of see that kind of playing out over the next several years, I guess. >> Yeah, it's such a good question Jeff. And it's like, you know, I think even the guys in Vegas are having trouble with setting the high laws on this. Cameron said in I think it was December of 2019, which was like 15 years ago now that in the first quarter of 2020, we would see a federal law. And I participated in a hearing at the Senate banking committee, again, November, October and in the before times. I'm talking about the same thing and here we are. Will we have a comprehensive, reasonable, privacy law in the United States before the end of this president's term. No, we will not. I can say that with just such faith and fidelity. (laughing) But what does that mean? And I think Katie Porter who I'm starting to just love, she's the Congresswoman who's famous for pulling on her white board and just saying, stop fudging the numbers. Let's talk about the numbers. There's about a, what she calls the 20% legislative flip phone a caucus. So there are 20% or more on both sides of the aisle of people in the US who are in the position of writing our laws. who are still on flip phones and aren't using smart phones and other kinds of technologies. There's a generation gap. And as much as I can kind of chuckle at that a little bit and wink, wink, nudge, nudge, isn't that cute. Because you know, my dad, as you know, is very very technical and he's a senior citizen. This is hard. I hope he doesn't see that but... (laughing) But then it's not old versus young. It's not let's get a whole new group and crop and start over again. What it is instead and this is, you know, as my constant tome sort of anti compliance. I'm not anti compliance. You got to put your underwear on before your pants or it's just really hard. (laughing) And I would love to see anyone who is capable of putting their underwater on afterwards. After you've made the decision of following the process. That is so basic. It comes down to, do you want the data that describes or is donated or observed about human beings. Whether it's performance of your employees. People you would love to entice onto your show to be a guest. People you'd like to listen and consume your content. People you want to meet. People you want to marry. Private data as Ann says, does the form the foundation of our freedom, but it also forms the foundation of our commerce. So that compliance, if you have stacked the deck proactively with an ethics that people can understand and agree with and have a choice about and feel like they have some integrity. Then you will start to see the acceleration factor of privacy being something that belongs on your balance sheet. What kind of data is high quality, high nutrition in the right context. And once you've got that, you're in good shape. >> I'm laughing at privacy on the balance sheet. We just had a big conversation about data on the balance sheets. It's a whole, that's a whole another topic. So we can go for days. I have Pages and pages of notes here. But unfortunately I know we've got some time restrictions. And so, and I want to give you the last word as you look forward. You've been in this for a while. You've been in it from the private side, as well as the government side. And you mentioned lots of other scary things, kind of on the horizon. Like the kick of surveillance creep, which there's all kinds of interesting stuff. You know, what advice do you give to citizens. What advice do you give to leaders in the public sector about framing the privacy conversation >> I always want to start by telling them don't frame privacy as a negative. It's not a negative. It's something that can build so much. If you're a business, you can gain a competitive advantage by strongly protecting your customer's privacy because then it will build such loyalty and you'll gain a competitive advantage. You make it work for you. As a government you want your citizens to have faith in the government. You want to encourage them to understand that as a government you respect their privacy. Privacy is highly contextual. It's only the individual who can make determinations relating to the disclosure of his or her personal information. So make sure you build that trust both as a government and as a business, private sector entity and gain from that. It's not a negative at all, make it work for you, make it work for your citizens, for your customers, make it a plus a win win that will give you the best returns. >> Isn't it nice when doing the right thing actually provides better business outcomes too. It's like diversity of opinion and women on boards. And kind of things- >> I love that. we cover these days. >> Well ladies, thank you very very much for your time. I know you've got a hard stop, so I'm going to cut you loose or else we would go for probably another hour and a half, but thank you so much for your time. Thank you for continuing to beat the drum out there and look forward to our next conversation. Hopefully in the not too distant future. >> My pleasure Jeff. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you too. >> All right She's Michelle. >> She's Ann. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Commentator: Live from Stanford University it's theCUBE covering the Women in Data Science Conference 2017. (jazzy music) >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin live at Stanford University at the second annual Women in Data Science WiDS tech conference. We are here with Ann Rosenberg from SAP. She's the VP head of Global SAP Alliances and SAP Next-Gen. Ann, welcome to the program. >> Thank you so much. >> So SAP is a sponsor of WiDS. Talk to us a little bit about that, and why is it so important for SAP to be involved in this great womens organization. >> So first of all, in my role as working with SAP's relationship to academia and also building up innovation network we see that data science is a very, very key skill set, and we also would like to see many more women get involved into this. Actually (mumbling) right now as we speak we are at the same time in 20 different countries around the world, 24 events we have. So we are both in Berlin, we are in New York, we are all over the world. So it's very important. I call it kind of a movement what we are doing here. It's important that all over the world that we inspire women to go into data science and into tech in general. So it is important thing for SAP. First of all, we need a lot of data science interested people. You also need our entire SAP ecosystem to go out to universities and be able to recruit a data science student both from a diversity perspective, whatever you are a female or a man of course. >> Absolutely, you're right. This is a very inspiring event. It's something that you can really actually feel. You're hearing a lot of applause from the speakers. When you're looking enabling even SAP people to go out and educate and recruit data scientists, what are some of the key skills that you're looking for as the next generation of data scientists? >> This is an interesting thing because you can say that you need like a very strong technical skill set, but we see more and more, and I saw that after I moved to Silicon Valley for two years that also the whole thing about design thinking, the combination of design thinking and data science is becoming something which is extremely important, but also the whole topic about empathy and also, so when you build solution you need to have this whole purpose driven in mindset. So I think what we're seeing more and more is that it's great to be a great data science, but it takes more than that. And that's what I see Stanford and Berkeley are doing a lot, that they're kind of mixing up kind of like the classes. And so you can be a strong data science, but at the same time you also have the whole design thinking background. That's some of the things that we look for at SAP. >> And that's great. We're hearing more and more of that, other skills, critical thinking, being able to not only analyze and interpret the information, but apply it and explain it in a way that really reflects the value. So I know that you have a career, you've been in industry, but you've also been a lecturer. Is this career that you're doing now, this job in alliances and next-gen for SAP sort of a match made in heaven in terms of your background? >> I actually love that question, probably the best question I ever got because it is definitely my dream job. When I was teaching in Copenhagen for some years ago I saw the mind of young people. I saw the thesis, the best of master thesis. I saw what they were able to do, and I'm an old management consultant, and I kept on thinking that the quality of work, the quality of ideas and ideations that the students come with were something that the industry could benefit so much from. So I always wanted to do this matchmaking between the industries and the mind of young people. And it's actually right now I see that it's started kind of, what I at least saw for the last two years that the industries that go to academia, go to universities to educate or to students to work on new ideas. And of course in Silicon Valley this has been going on for some time now, but we see all over the world. And the network that I'm responsible for at SAP, we work in more than 106 countries around the world, with 3,100 universities. And what I really want to do now, I call it the Silicon Valleys of the world where you are mapping the industries with academia with the accelerators and start ups. It's just an incredible innovation network, and this is what I see is just so much growing right now. So it's a great opportunity for academia, but equally also for the industry. >> I love that. Something that caught my eye, I was doing some research, and April 2016 SAP announced a collaboration with the White House's Computer Science for All Initiative. Tell us about that. >> I mean the whole DNA of SAP is in education. And therefore we do support a number of entity around the world. Whatever we talk about building up a skill set within data science, building skill set in design thinking, or in any kind of development skills is really, really important for us. So we do a lot of work together with the governments around the world. Whatever you talk about the host communication, for example, we have programs called Young Thinkers, Beatick, where you go out to high schools or you go into academia, to universities. So when this institute came up, we of course went in and said we want to support this. So if I look at United States, so we have a huge amount of universities part of the network that I'm driving with my team. So we have data curriculums, education material, we have train to train our faculties, boot camps. We do hackathons, coach games. We do around 1,200 to 1,600 hackathon coach games per year around the world. We engage with the industries out to the universities. So therefore it was a perfect match for us to kind of support this institute. >> Fantastic. Are there any things that SAP does as we look at the conference where we are, this Women in Data Science, are there things that you're doing specifically to help SAP, maybe even universities bring in more females into the programs, whether it's a university program or into SAP? >> Yeah, so for SAP in our whole recruiting process we definitely are looking into that. There is a great mix between female and male people who get hired into the company, but we also, it all start with that you actually inspire young women to go into a data science education or into a development education. So my team, we actually go in before SAP recruiting get involved where we, that's why we build up the strong relationships with universities where we inspire young women, like we do at this event here to why should they go in and have a career like this. So therefore you can see there's a lot of pre=work we need to be done for us to be able to go in and go into the recruiting process afterwards. So SAP do a lot of course in the United States, but all over the world to inspire young women to go into tech. And SAP does what we see today all over the world we have huge amount of female from SAP, female speakers at all our events who stand as role models to show that they are women, they are working for SAP, and are very, very strong female speakers and are female role models for all young women to get involved. So we do a lot of stuff to show that to the next generation of data science of whatever it is in tech. >> Yeah, and I can imagine that that's quite symbiotic. It's probably a really nice thing for that female speaker to be able to have the opportunity to share what she's doing, what she's working on, but also probably nice for her to have the opportunity to be a mentor and to help influence someone else's career. So you mentioned accelerators a minute ago, and I wanted to understand a little bit more about SAP Next-Gen Consulting, this collaboration of SAP with accelerators or start ups. How are you partnering to help accelerate innovation, and who is geared towards? Is it geared more towards student? Or is SAP also helping current business leaders to evolve and really drive digital transformation within their companies? >> So the big (mumbling) I'm working on right now too is as mentioned you said SAP Next-Gen is called SAP Next-Gen Innovation With Purpose. So it's linked to the 17 U.N. global goals. We've seen from now in Silicon Valley when you innovate you actually make innovation web purposes included. And that's why we kind of agreed on in SAP why don't we make an innovation network where the main focus is that all the innovation we get out of this is purpose driven linked to the 17 global goals. Like the event here is the goal number five, gender equality. In that network we actually do the matchmaking between academia. We look at all the disrupted new technologies, experience the technologies like machine learning like what's being discussed a lot here, block chain IOT. And then we look at the industry out there because the industries, they need all the new ideas and how to work with all the new opportunities that technology can provide, but then we also look into accelerator start ups. The huge amount, and often when you're in Silicon Valley you kind of think this is the world of the start ups of the world. So when you travel around the world, that's we we looked into a lot the last two years. We call the Silicon Valleys of the world, any big city around the world, or even smaller cities, they have tech hub. So you have Ferline Valley, you have Silicon Roundabout in London, you have Silicon Alley in New York, and that is where there is a huge amount of gravity of start ups and accelerators. And when you begin to link them together with the university network of the world and together with the industry network of the world, you suddenly realize that there is an incredible activity of creativity and ideations and start ups, and you can begin to group that into industries. And that give industries the opportunity not only to develop solution inside the company, but kind of like go in and tap into that incredible innovation network. So we work a lot with seeding in start up, early start ups into corporates, and also crowd source out to academia and the mind of young people all Next-Gen Consulting project where you similar work with students at universities on projects. It could be big data science project. It could be new applications. So I see like as the next generation type of consultancy and research what is happening in that whole network. But that is really what SAP Next-Gen is, but it is linked to the 17 U.N. global goals. It is innovation with purpose, which I'm really happy to see because I think when you build innovation, you really think about in the bigger, the whole (mumbling) thing that we know from singularity. You should think about a bigger purpose of what you're doing. >> Right, right. It sounds like though that this Next-Gen Consulting is built on a foundation of collaboration and sharing. >> It is, it is, and we have three Next-Gen lab types we set up. In this year we built, last year, we are a new year now, we built 20 Next-Gen labs at university campuses and at SAP locations. And here in the new year more labs is being set up. We are opening up a big lab in New York. We just recently opened up one in Valdov at SAP's headquarter. We have one here in Silicon Valley, and then we have a number of universities around the world where SAP's customers go in and work with academia, with educators and students because what do you do today if you're in industry? You need to find students who are strong in machine learning and all the new technologies, right? So there's a huge need for in industry now to engage with academia, an incredible opportunity for both sides. >> Right, and one last question. Who are you, in the spirit of collaboration, who do you collaborate back with at SAP corporate? Who are all the beneficiaries or the influencers of Next-Gen Consulting? >> So I collaborate, inside SAP I collaborate, SAP have a number of, we have ICN, Innovation Center Network. We have our start up focus program. We have a number of innovation, the labs, a number of basically do all our software developments, so they're heavily involved. We have our whole go to market organization with all our SAP customers and industry, I call them clubs. And then externally is of course academia, universities, and then it is the start up communities, accelerators and of course, the industry. So it is really like a matchmaking. That's like, when people ask me what do you do, and I'm a matchmaker. That's really what I am. (Lisa laughs) >> I like that, a matchmaker of technology and people all over. So you're on the planning committee for WiDS. Wrapping things up here, what does this event mean to you in terms of what you've heard today? And what are you excited about for next year's event? >> So for me, one year ago when I heard about this year I kind of said this is important, this is very important. And it's not just an event, it's a movement. And so that was where I went in and said you know, we want to be part of this, but it must be more than just an event here. It's staying for the need to be much more than that. And this is where we all teamed up, all the sponsors together with ISMIE, and we said okay, let us crowd source it out, let us live stream it out much more than ever. And this is also what the assignment is now, that we to so many locations. This is just the beginning. Next year is going to be even bigger, and it's not like that we will wait to next year. We this week announced the SAP Next-Gen global challenges linked to the 17 U.N. global goals. So we are inspiring everybody to go in and work on those global challenges, and one of them is goal number five, which is linked to this event here. So for us and for me this is just the beginning, and next year is going to be even bigger. But we are going to do so many event and activity up to next year. My team in APJ, because of the Chinese New Year, have already been planned coming up here. >> Lisa: Fantastic. >> And we have been doing pre-event, (mumbling) events. So again, it is a movement, and it's going to be big. That's for sure. >> I completely can feel that within you. And you're going to be driving this momentum to make the movement even louder, ever more visible next year. >> Ann: Yeah. >> Well Ann, thank you so much for joining us on The Cube. We're happy to have you. >> Thank you so much for the opportunity. >> And we thank you for watching The Cube. I am Lisa Martin. We are live at Stanford University at the second annual Women in Data Science Conference. Stick around, we'll be right back. (jazzy music)