(upbeat music) >> Hey guys, welcome back to the show floor of KubeCon + CloudNativeCon '22 North America from Detroit, Michigan. Lisa Martin here with John Furrier. This is day one, John at theCUBE's coverage. >> CUBE's coverage. >> theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon. Try saying that five times fast. Day one, we have three wall-to-wall days. We've been talking about Kubernetes, containers, adoption, cloud adoption, app modernization all morning. We can't talk about those things without addressing security. >> Yeah, this segment we're going to hear container and Kubernetes security for modern application 'cause the enterprise are moving there. And this segment with Red Hat's going to be important because they are the leader in the enterprise when it comes to open source in Linux. So this is going to be a very fun segment. >> Very fun segment. Two guests from Red Hat join us. Please welcome Doron Caspin, Senior Principal Product Manager at Red Hat. Michael Foster joins us as well, Principal Product Marketing Manager and StackRox Community Lead at Red Hat. Guys, great to have you on the program. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you for having us. >> It's awesome. So Michael StackRox acquisition's been about a year. You got some news? >> Yeah, 18 months. >> Unpack that for us. >> It's been 18 months, yeah. So StackRox in 2017, originally we shifted to be the Kubernetes-native security platform. That was our goal, that was our vision. Red Hat obviously saw a lot of powerful, let's say, mission statement in that, and they bought us in 2021. Pre-acquisition we were looking to create a cloud service. Originally we ran on Kubernetes platforms, we had an operator and things like that. Now we are looking to basically bring customers in into our service preview for ACS as a cloud service. That's very exciting. Security conversation is top notch right now. It's an all time high. You can't go with anywhere without talking about security. And specifically in the code, we were talking before we came on camera, the software supply chain is real. It's not just about verification. Where do you guys see the challenges right now? Containers having, even scanning them is not good enough. First of all, you got to scan them and that may not be good enough. Where's the security challenges and where's the opportunity? >> I think a little bit of it is a new way of thinking. The speed of security is actually does make you secure. We want to keep our images up and fresh and updated and we also want to make sure that we're keeping the open source and the different images that we're bringing in secure. Doron, I know you have some things to say about that too. He's been working tirelessly on the cloud service. >> Yeah, I think that one thing, you need to trust your sources. Even if in the open source world, you don't want to copy paste libraries from the web. And most of our customers using third party vendors and getting images from different location, we need to trust our sources and we have a really good, even if you have really good scanning solution, you not always can trust it. You need to have a good solution for that. >> And you guys are having news, you're announcing the Red Hat Advanced Cluster Security Cloud Service. >> Yes. >> What is that? >> So we took StackRox and we took the opportunity to make it as a cloud services so customer can consume the product as a cloud services as a start offering and customer can buy it through for Amazon Marketplace and in the future Azure Marketplace. So customer can use it for the AKS and EKS and AKS and also of course OpenShift. So we are not specifically for OpenShift. We're not just OpenShift. We also provide support for EKS and AKS. So we provided the capability to secure the whole cloud posture. We know customer are not only OpenShift or not only EKS. We have both. We have free cloud or full cloud. So we have open. >> So it's not just OpenShift, it's Kubernetes, environments, all together. >> Doron: All together, yeah. >> Lisa: Meeting customers where they are. >> Yeah, exactly. And we focus on, we are not trying to boil the ocean or solve the whole cloud security posture. We try to solve the Kubernetes security cluster. It's very unique and very need unique solution for that. It's not just added value in our cloud security solution. We think it's something special for Kubernetes and this is what Red that is aiming to. To solve this issue. >> And the ACS platform really doesn't change at all. It's just how they're consuming it. It's a lot quicker in the cloud. Time to value is right there. As soon as you start up a Kubernetes cluster, you can get started with ACS cloud service and get going really quickly. >> I'm going to ask you guys a very simple question, but I heard it in the bar in the lobby last night. Practitioners talking and they were excited about the Red Hat opportunity. They actually asked a question, where do I go and get some free Red Hat to test some Kubernetes out and run helm or whatever. They want to play around. And do you guys have a program for someone to get start for free? >> Yeah, so the cloud service specifically, we're going to service preview. So if people sign up, they'll be able to test it out and give us feedback. That's what we're looking for. >> John: Is that a Sandbox or is that going to be in the cloud? >> They can run it in their own environment. So they can sign up. >> John: Free. >> Doron: Yeah, free. >> For the service preview. All we're asking for is for customer feedback. And I know it's actually getting busy there. It's starting December. So the quicker people are, the better. >> So my friend at the lobby I was talking to, I told you it was free. I gave you the sandbox, but check out your cloud too. >> And we also have the open source version so you can download it and use it. >> Yeah, people want to know how to get involved. I'm getting a lot more folks coming to Red Hat from the open source side that want to get their feet wet. That's been a lot of people rarely interested. That's a real testament to the product leadership. Congratulations. >> Yeah, thank you. >> So what are the key challenges that you have on your roadmap right now? You got the products out there, what's the current stake? Can you scope the adoption? Can you share where we're at? What people are doing specifically and the real challenges? >> I think one of the biggest challenges is talking with customers with a slightly, I don't want to say outdated, but an older approach to security. You hear things like malware pop up and it's like, well, really what we should be doing is keeping things into low and medium vulnerabilities, looking at the configuration, managing risk accordingly. Having disparate security tools or different teams doing various things, it's really hard to get a security picture of what's going on in the cluster. That's some of the biggest challenges that we talk with customers about. >> And in terms of resolving those challenges, you mentioned malware, we talk about ransomware. It's a household word these days. It's no longer, are we going to get hit? It's when? It's what's the severity? It's how often? How are you guys helping customers to dial down some of the risk that's inherent and only growing these days? >> Yeah, risk, it's a tough word to generalize, but our whole goal is to give you as much security information in a way that's consumable so that you can evaluate your risk, set policies, and then enforce them early on in the cluster or early on in the development pipeline so that your developers get the security information they need, hopefully asynchronously. That's the best way to do it. It's nice and quick, but yeah. I don't know if Doron you want to add to that? >> Yeah, so I think, yeah, we know that ransomware, again, it's a big world for everyone and we understand the area of the boundaries where we want to, what we want to protect. And we think it's about policies and where we enforce it. So, and if you can enforce it on, we know that as we discussed before that you can scan the image, but we never know what is in it until you really run it. So one of the thing that we we provide is runtime scanning. So you can scan and you can have policy in runtime. So enforce things in runtime. But even if one image got in a way and get to your cluster and run on somewhere, we can stop it in runtime. >> Yeah. And even with the runtime enforcement, the biggest thing we have to educate customers on is that's the last-ditch effort. We want to get these security controls as early as possible. That's where the value's going to be. So we don't want to be blocking things from getting to staging six weeks after developers have been working on a project. >> I want to get you guys thoughts on developer productivity. Had Docker CEO on earlier and since then I had a couple people messaging me. Love the vision of Docker, but Docker Hub has some legacy and it might not, has does something kind of adoption that some people think it does. Are people moving 'cause there times they want to have these their own places? No one place or maybe there is, or how do you guys see the movement of say Docker Hub to just using containers? I don't need to be Docker Hub. What's the vis-a-vis competition? >> I mean working with open source with Red Hat, you have to meet the developers where they are. If your tool isn't cutting it for developers, they're going to find a new tool and really they're the engine, the growth engine of a lot of these technologies. So again, if Docker, I don't want to speak about Docker or what they're doing specifically, but I know that they pretty much kicked off the container revolution and got this whole thing started. >> A lot of people are using your environment too. We're hearing a lot of uptake on the Red Hat side too. So, this is open source help, it all sorts stuff out in the end, like you said, but you guys are getting a lot of traction there. Can you share what's happening there? >> I think one of the biggest things from a developer experience that I've seen is the universal base image that people are using. I can speak from a security standpoint, it's awesome that you have a base image where you can make one change or one issue and it can impact a lot of different applications. That's one of the big benefits that I see in adoption. >> What are some of the business, I'm curious what some of the business outcomes are. You talked about faster time to value obviously being able to get security shifted left and from a control perspective. but what are some of the, if I'm a business, if I'm a telco or a healthcare organization or a financial organization, what are some of the top line benefits that this can bubble up to impact? >> I mean for me, with those two providers, compliance is a massive one. And just having an overall look at what's going on in your clusters, in your environments so that when audit time comes, you're prepared. You can get through that extremely quickly. And then as well, when something inevitably does happen, you can get a good image of all of like, let's say a Log4Shell happens, you know exactly what clusters are affected. The triage time is a lot quicker. Developers can get back to developing and then yeah, you can get through it. >> One thing that we see that customers compliance is huge. >> Yes. And we don't want to, the old way was that, okay, I will provision a cluster and I will do scans and find things, but I need to do for PCI DSS for example. Today the customer want to provision in advance a PCI DSS cluster. So you need to do the compliance before you provision the cluster and make all the configuration already baked for PCI DSS or HIPAA compliance or FedRAMP. And this is where we try to use our compliance, we have tools for compliance today on OpenShift and other clusters and other distribution, but you can do this in advance before you even provision the cluster. And we also have tools to enforce it after that, after your provision, but you have to do it again before and after to make it more feasible. >> Advanced cluster management and the compliance operator really help with that. That's why OpenShift Platform Plus as a bundle is so popular. Just being able to know that when a cluster gets provision, it's going to be in compliance with whatever the healthcare provider is using. And then you can automatically have ACS as well pop up so you know exactly what applications are running, you know it's in compliance. I mean that's the speed. >> You mentioned the word operator, I get triggering word now for me because operator role is changing significantly on this next wave coming because of the automation. They're operating, but they're also devs too. They're developing and composing. It's almost like a dashboard, Lego blocks. The operator's not just manually racking and stacking like the old days, I'm oversimplifying it, but the new operators running stuff, they got observability, they got coding, their servicing policy. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of knobs. Is it going to get simpler? How do you guys see the org structures changing to fill the gap on what should be a very simple, turn some knobs, operate at scale? >> Well, when StackRox originally got acquired, one of the first things we did was put ACS into an operator and it actually made the application life cycle so much easier. It was very easy in the console to go and say, Hey yeah, I want ACS my cluster, click it. It would get provisioned. New clusters would get provisioned automatically. So underneath it might get more complicated. But in terms of the application lifecycle, operators make things so much easier. >> And of course I saw, I was lucky enough with Lisa to see Project Wisdom in AnsibleFest. You going to say, Hey, Red Hat, spin up the clusters and just magically will be voice activated. Starting to see AI come in. So again, operations operator is got to dev vibe and an SRE vibe, but it's not that direct. Something's happening there. We're trying to put our finger on. What do you guys think is happening? What's the real? What's the action? What's transforming? >> That's a good question. I think in general, things just move to the developers all the time. I mean, we talk about shift left security, everything's always going that way. Developers how they're handing everything. I'm not sure exactly. Doron, do you have any thoughts on that. >> Doron, what's your reaction? You can just, it's okay, say what you want. >> So I spoke with one of our customers yesterday and they say that in the last years, we developed tons of code just to operate their infrastructure. That if developers, so five or six years ago when a developer wanted VM, it will take him a week to get a VM because they need all their approval and someone need to actually provision this VM on VMware. And today they automate all the way end-to-end and it take two minutes to get a VM for developer. So operators are becoming developers as you said, and they develop code and they make the infrastructure as code and infrastructure as operator to make it more easy for the business to run. >> And then also if you add in DataOps, AIOps, DataOps, Security Ops, that's the new IT. It seems to be the new IT is the stuff that's scaling, a lot of data's coming in, you got security. So all that's got to be brought in. How do you guys view that into the equation? >> Oh, I mean you become big generalists. I think there's a reason why those cloud security or cloud professional certificates are becoming so popular. You have to know a lot about all the different applications, be able to code it, automate it, like you said, hopefully everything as code. And then it also makes it easy for security tools to come in and look and examine where the vulnerabilities are when those things are as code. So because you're going and developing all this automation, you do become, let's say a generalist. >> We've been hearing on theCUBE here and we've been hearing the industry, burnout, associated with security professionals and some DataOps because the tsunami of data, tsunami of breaches, a lot of engineers getting called in the middle of the night. So that's not automated. So this got to get solved quickly, scaled up quickly. >> Yes. There's two part question there. I think in terms of the burnout aspect, you better send some love to your security team because they only get called when things get broken and when they're doing a great job you never hear about them. So I think that's one of the things, it's a thankless profession. From the second part, if you have the right tools in place so that when something does hit the fan and does break, then you can make an automated or a specific decision upstream to change that, then things become easy. It's when the tools aren't in place and you have desperate environments so that when a Log4Shell or something like that comes in, you're scrambling trying to figure out what clusters are where and where you're impacted. >> Point of attack, remediate fast. That seems to be the new move. >> Yeah. And you do need to know exactly what's going on in your clusters and how to remediate it quickly, how to get the most impact with one change. >> And that makes sense. The service area is expanding. More things are being pushed. So things will, whether it's a zero day vulnerability or just attack. >> Just mix, yeah. Customer automate their all of things, but it's good and bad. Some customer told us they, I think Spotify lost the whole a full zone because of one mistake of a customer because they automate everything and you make one mistake. >> It scale the failure really. >> Exactly. Scaled the failure really fast. >> That was actually few contact I think four years ago. They talked about it. It was a great learning experience. >> It worked double edge sword there. >> Yeah. So definitely we need to, again, scale automation, test automation way too, you need to hold the drills around data. >> Yeah, you have to know the impact. There's a lot of talk in the security space about what you can and can't automate. And by default when you install ACS, everything is non-enforced. You have to have an admission control. >> How are you guys seeing your customers? Obviously Red Hat's got a great customer base. How are they adopting to the managed service wave that's coming? People are liking the managed services now because they maybe have skills gap issues. So managed service is becoming a big part of the portfolio. What's your guys' take on the managed services piece? >> It's just time to value. You're developing a new application, you need to get it out there quick. If somebody, your competitor gets out there a month before you do, that's a huge market advantage. >> So you care how you got there. >> Exactly. And so we've had so much Kubernetes expertise over the last 10 or so, 10 plus year or well, Kubernetes for seven plus years at Red Hat, that why wouldn't you leverage that knowledge internally so you can get your application. >> Why change your toolchain and your workflows go faster and take advantage of the managed service because it's just about getting from point A to point B. >> Exactly. >> Well, in time to value is, you mentioned that it's not a trivial term, it's not a marketing term. There's a lot of impact that can be made. Organizations that can move faster, that can iterate faster, develop what their customers are looking for so that they have that competitive advantage. It's definitely not something that's trivial. >> Yeah. And working in marketing, whenever you get that new feature out and I can go and chat about it online, it's always awesome. You always get customers interests. >> Pushing new code, being secure. What's next for you guys? What's on the agenda? What's around the corner? We'll see a lot of Red Hat at re:Invent. Obviously your relationship with AWS as strong as a company. Multi-cloud is here. Supercloud as we've been saying. Supercloud is a thing. What's next for you guys? >> So we launch the cloud services and the idea that we will get feedback from customers. We are not going GA. We're not going to sell it for now. We want to get customers, we want to get feedback to make the product as best what we can sell and best we can give for our customers and get feedback. And when we go GA and we start selling this product, we will get the best product in the market. So this is our goal. We want to get the customer in the loop and get as much as feedback as we can. And also we working very closely with our customers, our existing customers to announce the product to add more and more features what the customer needs. It's all about supply chain. I don't like it, but we have to say, it's all about making things more automated and make things more easy for our customer to use to have security in the Kubernetes environment. >> So where can your customers go? Clearly, you've made a big impact on our viewers with your conversation today. Where are they going to be able to go to get their hands on the release? >> So you can find it on online. We have a website to sign up for this program. It's on my blog. We have a blog out there for ACS cloud services. You can just go there, sign up, and we will contact the customer. >> Yeah. And there's another way, if you ever want to get your hands on it and you can do it for free, Open Source StackRox. The product is open source completely. And I would love feedback in Slack channel. It's one of the, we also get a ton of feedback from people who aren't actually paying customers and they contribute upstream. So that's an awesome way to get started. But like you said, you go to, if you search ACS cloud service and service preview. Don't have to be a Red Hat customer. Just if you're running a CNCF compliant Kubernetes version. we'd love to hear from you. >> All open source, all out in the open. >> Yep. >> Getting it available to the customers, the non-customers, they hopefully pending customers. Guys, thank you so much for joining John and me talking about the new release, the evolution of StackRox in the last season of 18 months. Lot of good stuff here. I think you've done a great job of getting the audience excited about what you're releasing. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> For our guest and for John Furrier, Lisa Martin here in Detroit, KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America. Coming to you live, we'll be back with our next guest in just a minute. (gentle music)

(upbeat intro music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCube's presentation of the AWS Startup Showcase. This is season two, episode four, of the ongoing series covering the exciting startups from the a AWS ecosystem. Talk about cybersecurity. I'm your host, John Furrier. Here, excited to have two great guests. Ed Casmer, Founder & CEO of Cloud Storage Security. Back, Cube alumni. And also James Johnson, AVP of Research & Development, iPipeline here. Here to talk about Cloud Storage Security, antivirus on S3. Gents, thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you, John. >> Thank you. >> So, the topic here is cloud security, storage security. Ed, we had a great Cube conversation previously, earlier in the month. You know, companies are modernizing their apps and migrating to the cloud. That's fact. Everyone kind of knows that. Been there, done that. You know, clouds have the infrastructure, they got the OS, they got protection. But, the end of the day, the companies are responsible and they're on the hook for their own security of their data. And this is becoming more preeminent now that you have hybrid cloud, cloud operations, cloud-native applications. This is the core focus right now. In the next five years. This is what everyone's talking about. Architecture, how to build apps, workflows, team formation. Everything's being refactored around this. Can you talk about how organizations are adjusting, and how they view their data security in light of how applications are being built and specifically, around the goodness of say, S3? >> Yep, absolutely. Thank you for that. So, we've seen S3 grow 20,000% over the last 10 years. And that's primarily because companies like James with iPipeline, are delivering solutions that are leveraging this object storage more and above the others. When we look at protection, we typically fall into a couple of categories. The first one is, we have folks that are worried about the access of the data. How are they dealing with it? So, they're looking at configuration aspects. But, the big thing that we're seeing is that customers are blind to the fact that the data itself must also be protected and looked at. And, so, we find these customers who do come to the realization that it needs to happen. Finding out like how asking themselves, "How do I solve for this?" And, so, they need lightweight, cloud-native built solutions to deliver that. >> So, what's the blind spot? You mentioned there's a blind spot. They're kind of blind to that. What specifically are you seeing? >> Well, so when we get into these conversations, the first thing that we see with customers is, "I need to predict how I access it." This is everyone's conversation. "Who are my users? How do they get into my data? How am I controlling that policy? Am I making sure there's no east-west traffic there, once I've blocked the north-south?" But, what we really find is that the data is the key packet of this whole process. It's what gets consumed by the downstream users. Whether that's an employee, a customer, a partner. And, so, it's really the blind spot is the fact that we find most customers not looking at whether that data is safe to use. >> It's interesting. You know, when you talk about that, I think about like all the recent breaches and incidents. "Incidents" they call them. >> Yeah. >> They're really been around user configurations. S3 buckets not configured properly. And this brings up what you're saying, is that the users and the customers have to be responsible for the configurations, the encryption, the malware aspect of it. Don't just hope that AWS has the magic to do it. Is that kind of what you're getting at here? Is that the similar? Am I correlating that properly? >> Absolutely. That's perfect. And, and we've seen it. We've had our own customers, luckily, iPipeline's not one of them, that have actually infected their end users, because they weren't looking at the data. >> Yeah. And that's a huge issue. So, James, let's get in, you're a customer-partner. Talk about your relationship with these guys and what's it all about? >> Yeah. Well, iPipeline is building a digital ecosystem for life insurance and wealth management industries to enable the sale of life insurance to underinsured and uninsured Americans, to make sure that they have the coverage that they need should something happen. And, our solutions have been around for many years in a traditional data center type of an implementation. And, we're in process now of migrating that to the cloud, moving it to AWS. In order to give our customers a better experience, better resiliency, better reliability. And, with that, we have to change the way that we approach file storage and how we approach scanning for vulnerabilities in those files that might come to us via feeds from third parties, or that are uploaded directly by end users that come to us from a source that we don't control. So, it was really necessary for us to identify a solution that both solved for these vulnerability scanning needs, as well as enabling us to leverage the capabilities that we get with other aspects of our move to the cloud. Being able to automatically scale based on load, based on need. To ensure that we get the performance that our customers are looking for. >> So, tell me about your journey to the cloud, migrating to the cloud, and how you're using S3. Specifically, what led you to determine the need for the cloud-based AV solution? >> Yeah. So, when we looked to begin moving our applications to the cloud, one of the realizations that we had is that our approach to storing certain types of data, was a bit archaic. We were storing binary files in a database, which is not the most efficient way to do things. And, we were scanning them with the traditional antivirus engines, that would've been scaled in traditional ways. So, as our need grew, we would need to spin up additional instances of those engines to keep up with load. And we wanted a solution that was cloud-native, and would allow us to scan more dynamically without having to manage the underlying details of how many engines do I need to have running for a particular load at a particular time, and being able to scan dynamically and also being able to move that out of the application layer, being able to scan those files behind the scenes. So, scanning in, when the file's been saved in S3. It allows us to scan and release the file once it's been deemed safe, rather than blocking the user while they wait for that scan to take place. >> Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that. I got to ask Ed and James, same question. And next is, how does all this factor into audits and self-compliance? Because, when you start getting into this level of sophistication, I'm sure it probably impacts reporting, workflows. Can you guys share the impact on that piece of it? The reporting. >> Yeah, I'll start with a comment, and James will have more applicable things to say. But, we're seeing two things. One, is you don't want to be the vendor whose name is in the news for infecting your customer base. So, that's number one. so you have to put something like this in place and figure that out. The second part is, we do hear that under SOC 2, under PCI, different aspects of it, there are scanning requirements on your data. Traditionally, we've looked at that as endpoint data and the data that you see in your on-prem world. It doesn't translate as directly to cloud data, but, it's certainly applicable. And if you want to achieve SOC 2 or you want to achieve some of these other pieces, you have to be scanning your data as well. >> James, what's your take? As practitioner, you're living it. >> Yeah. That's exactly right. There are a number of audits that we go through, where this is a question that comes up both from a SOC perspective, as well as our individual customers, who reach out, and they want to know where we stand from a security perspective and a compliance perspective. And, very often, this is a question of "How are you ensuring that the data that is uploaded into the application is safe and doesn't contain any vulnerabilities?" >> James, if you don't mind me asking. I have to kind of inquire, because I can imagine that you have users on your system, but also you have third parties, relationships. How does that impact this? What's the connection? >> That's a good question. We receive data from a number of different locations. From our customers directly, from their users, and from partners that we have, as well as partners that our customers have. And, as we ingest that data, from an implementation perspective, the way we've approached this, there's minimal impact there in each one of those integrations, because everything comes into the S3 bucket and is scanned before it is available for consumption or distribution. But, this allows us to ensure that no matter where that data is coming from, that we are able to verify that it is safe before we allow it into our systems or allow it to continue on to another third party, whether that's our customer or somebody else. >> Yeah. I don't mean to get in the weeds there, but it's one of those things where, you know, this is what people are experiencing right now. You know, Ed, we talked about this before. It's not just siloed data anymore. It's interactive data. It's third party data from multiple sources. This is a scanning requirement. >> Agreed. I find it interesting, too. I think James brings it up. We've had it in previous conversations, that not all data's created equal. Data that comes from third parties that you're not in control of, you feel like you have to scan and other data you may generate internally. You don't, have to be as compelled to scan that, although it's a good idea. But it's, you can kind of, as long as you can sift through and determine which data is which, and process it appropriately, then you're in good shape. >> Well, James. You're living the cloud security storage security situation, here. I got to ask you if you zoom out, not get in the weeds, and look at kind of the boardroom or the management conversation. Tell me about how you guys view the data security problem. I mean, obviously it's important, right? So, can you give us a level of, you know, how important it is for iPipeline and with your customers and where does this S3 piece fit in? I mean, when you guys look at this holistically, for data security, what's the view? What's the conversation like? >> Yeah. Well, data security is critical. As Ed mentioned a few minutes ago, you don't want to be the company that's in the news because some data was exposed. That's something that nobody has the appetite for. And, so, data security is, first and foremost, in everything that we do. And that's really where this solution came into play and making sure that we had not only a solution, but, we had a solution that was the right fit for the technology that we're using. There are a number of options. Some of them have been around for a while. But this is focused on S3, which we were using to store these documents that are coming from many different sources. And, you know, we have to take all the precautions we can to ensure that something that is malicious doesn't make its way into our ecosystem or into our customers' ecosystems through us. >> What's the primary use case that you see the value here with these guys? What's the "aha" moment that you had? >> With the Cloud Storage Security, specifically, it was really, it goes beyond the security aspects of being able to scan for vulnerable files, which is there are a number of options and, and they're one of those. But for us, the key was being able to scale dynamically without committing to a particular load, whether that's under committing or over committing. As we move our applications from a traditional data center type of installation to AWS, we anticipated a lot of growth over time. And being able to scale up very dynamically, you know, literally moving a slider within the admin console was key to us, to be able to meet our customer's needs without overspending. By building up something that was, dramatically larger than we needed in our initial rollout. >> Not a bad testimonial there, Ed. I mean. >> I agree. >> This is really highlights the applications using S3 more in the file workflow for the application in real time. This is where you start to see the rise of ransomware, other issues and scale matters. Can you share your thoughts and reaction to what James just said? >> Yeah, I think it's critical. I mean, as the popularity of S3 has increased, so has the fact that it's an attack vector now, and people are going after it. Whether that's to plant bad, malicious files, whether it's to replace code segments that are downloaded and used in other applications, it is a very critical piece. And when you look at scale, and you look at the cloud-native capability, there are lots of ways to solve it. You can dig a hole with a spoon, but a shovel works a lot better. And, in this case, you know, we take a simple example like James. They did a weekend migration, so, they've got new data coming in all the time. But, we did a massive migration. 5,000 files a minute being ingested. And, like he said, with a couple of clicks, scale up, process that over a sustained period of time, and then scale back down. So, you know, I've said it before. I said it on the previous one. We don't want to get in the way of someone's workflow. We want to help them secure their data and do it in a timely fashion, that they can continue with their proper processing and their normal customer responses. >> Yeah. Friction always has to be key. I know you're in the marketplace with your antivirus, for S3 on AWS. People can just download it. So, people are interested, go check it out. James, I got to ask you, and maybe Ed can chime in over the top, but, it seems so obvious. Data. Secure the data. Why is it so hard? Why isn't this so obvious? What's the problem? Why is it so difficult? Why are there so many different solutions? It just seems so obvious. You know, you got ransomware, you got injection of different malicious payloads. There's a ton of things going around around the data. Why is this? This is so obvious. Why isn't it solved? >> Well, I think there have been solutions available for a long time. That the challenge, the difficulty that I see is, that it is a moving target. As bad actors learn new vulnerabilities, new approaches. And as new technology becomes available, that opens additional attack vectors. That's the challenge. Is keeping up on the changing world. Including keeping up on the new ways that people are finding to exploit vulnerabilities. >> Yeah. And you got sensitive data at iPipeline. You do a lot of insurance, wealth management, all kinds of sensitive data, super valuable. You know, just brings me up, reminds me of the Sony hack, Ed, years ago. You know, companies are responsible for their own militia. I mean, cybersecurity, there's no government help for sure. I mean, companies are on the hook, as we mentioned earlier at the top of this interview. This really is highlighted that, IT departments and are, have to evolve to large scale cloud, you know, cloud-native applications, automation, AI machine learning all built in, to keep up at the scale. But, also, from a defense standpoint, I mean, James, you're out there, you're in the front lines. You got to defend yourself, basically, and you got to engineer it. >> A hundred percent. And just to go on top of what James was saying is, I think they're one of the big factors, and we've seen this. There's skill shortages out there. There's also just a pure lack of understanding. When we look at Amazon S3 or object storage in general, it's not an executable file system. So, people sort of assume that, "Oh, I'm safe. It's not executable. So, I'm not worried about it traversing my storage network." And they also probably have the assumption that the cloud providers, Amazon, is taking care of this for 'em. And, so, it's this "aha" moment, like you mentioned earlier. That you start to think, "Oh, it's not about where the data is sitting, per se, it's about scanning it as close to the storage spot. So, when it gets to the end user, it's safe and secure. And you can't rely on the end users' environment and system to be in place and up to date to handle it. So, it's that really, that lack of understanding that drives some of these folks into this, but for a while, we'll walk into customers and they'll say the same thing you said, John. "Why haven't I been doing this for so long?" And, it's because they didn't understand that it was such a risk. That's where that blind spot comes in. >> James, it's just a final note on your environment. What's your goals for the next year? How's things going over there in your side? How do you look at the security posture? What's on your agenda for the next year? How do you guys looking at the next level? >> Yeah, well, our goal as it relates to this is, to continue to move our existing applications over to AWS, to run natively there, which includes moving more data into S3 and leveraging the cloud storage security solution to scan that and ensure that it's, that there are no vulnerabilities that are getting in. >> And the ingestion? Is there like a bottlenecks, log jams? How do you guys see that scaling up? I mean, what's the strategy there? More, just add more S3? >> Well, S3 itself scales automatically for us and, the Cloud Storage Solution gives us levers to pull to do that. As Ed mentioned, we ingested a large amount of data during our initial migration, which created a bottleneck for us, as we were preparing to move our users over. We were able to, you know, make an adjustment in the admin console and spin up additional processes entirely behind the scenes and broke the log jam. So, I don't see any immediate concerns there. Being able to handle the load. >> You know, the term cloud-native and, you know, hyperscale-native, cloud-native, OneCloud, it's hybrid. All these things are native. We have anti-virus native coming soon. And I mean, this is what we're. You're basically doing is making it native into the workflows. Security native, and soon there's going to be security clouds out there. We're starting to see the rise of these new solutions. Can you guys share any thoughts or vision around how you see the industry evolving and what's needed, what's working and what's needed? Ed, we'll start with you. What's your vision? >> So, I think the notion of being able to look at and view the management plane and control that, has been where we're at right now. that's what everyone seems to be doing and going after. I think there are niche plays coming up, storage is one of them. But, we're going to get to a point where storage is just a blanket term for where you put your stuff. I mean, it kind of already is that, but, in AWS, it's going to be less about S3, less about work docs, less about EVS. It's going to be just storage and you're going to need a solution that can span all of that, to go along with where we're already at at the management plane. We're going to keep growing the data plane. >> James, what's your vision for what's needed in the industry? What's the gaps? What's working? And where do you see things going? >> Yeah, well, I think on the security front, specifically, Ed's probably a little bit better equipped to speak to them than I am. Since that's his primary focus. But I see the need for just expanded solutions that are cloud-native, that fit and fit nicely with the Amazon technologies, Whether that comes from Amazon or other partners like Cloud Storage Security, to fill those gaps. We're focused on, you know, the financial services and insurance industries. That's our niche. And we look to other partners, like Ed, to help be the experts in these areas. And so that's really what I'm looking for is, you know, the experts that we can partner with that are going to help fill those gaps as they come up and as they change in the future. >> Well, James, I really appreciate you coming on sharing your story. Ed, I'll give you the final word. Put a quick, spend a minute to talk about the company. I know Cloud Storage Security is an AWS partner, with the Security Software Competency. And is one of, I think, 16 partners listed in the competency and data category. So, take a minute to explain, you know, what's going on with the company, where people can find more information, how they buy and consume the products. >> Okay. >> Put the plug in. >> Yeah, thank you for that. So, we are a fast growing startup. We we've been in business for two and a half years, now. We have achieved our Security Competency. As John indicated, we're one of 16 data protection, Security Competent ISV vendors, globally. And, our goal is to expand and grow a platform that spans all storage types that you're going to be dealing with. And answer basic questions. "What do I have and where is it? Is it safe to use?" And, "Am I in proper control of it? Am I being alerted appropriately?" You know, so we're building this storage security platform, very laser-focused on the storage aspect of it. And, if people want to find out more information, you're more than welcome to go and try the software out on Amazon Marketplace. That's basically where we do most of our transacting. So, find it there, start a free trial, reach out to us directly from our website. We are happy to help you in any way that you need it, whether that's storage assessments, figuring out what data is important to you, and how to protect it. >> All right, Ed, thank you so much. Ed Casmer. Founder & CEO of Cloud Storage Security and of course James Johnson, AVP Research & Development, iPipeline customer. Gentlemen, thank you for sharing your story and featuring the company and the value proposition. It's certainly needed. This is season two, episode four. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, John. >> Okay. I'm John Furrier. That is a wrap for this segment of the cybersecurity, season two, episode four. The ongoing series covering the exciting startups from Amazon's ecosystem. Thanks for watching. (gentle outro music)

(high intensity music) >> Everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit live in Washington, D.C. Two days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Finally, great to be in-person. We had a remote interviews. We have a hybrid event going on. We're streaming everything all over the place. Next guest is Matt Mandrgoc, who's the Head of Public Sector at Zoom. The company that everyone loves and have happy meetings, happening events. Great to see you. >> Thank you for having me today. >> So, I'll say Zoom is in the center of all the action pandemic. Everyone knows what's going on with Zoom. Household name. Company's exceptionally well on the performance side, what's going on in Public Sector? >> It's exciting. You know, over the last 18 months, we've just exploded across all the marketplace, both in federal state, local government and education. And what's exciting is we've just scratched the surface for our customers. So, if you look at what we've done in getting in front of inaugural events, courts, legislation, all kinds of other types of meetings and webinars, getting the message out around the pandemic. It's exciting to know that we have that opportunity to make a difference. Now, part of this whole thing around Public Sector, since we just scratched the surface, what's exciting is how do we start to look forward to the next 12, 24, 36 months in helping our customers? How do we really add value in accelerating that mission value for them? >> You know, Matt, it's interesting. There's two things that happened during the pandemic that I point to and I talk about all the time. The internet didn't break. So, all those service providers that had the pipes, good job, packets from moving around, And Zoom, you guys really saved society and educate, so many use this. Education, government, meetings, courtrooms, I never thought about the speeding tickets. People have to go free Zoom. All this stuff's happening. Now, you've got a partnership with AWS. What's the next level? I'm assuming more immersion, more connections, more integration. What's the next? What's the plan? >> Great question. So, our next step is we looked at this relationship and we were going to customers and go in there, we go in there and then they go in there. There's wasn't any synergy. So, what we decided to do is come together. So, think about this, Zoom and AWS going into our public sector customers, bringing solutions and helping them evolve, innovate, and transform. As they're evolving through this people-centric hybrid network or workplace journey that they're going through. And then the best part about this is these ecosystem of partners that help both of us, and be a part of that process as well. >> Not to toot your own horn, but we just had a remote interview on Zoom connected to our gear here. Here with a guest sitting right here, just now, that's the kind of impact. How is that transformed some of the government agencies, like military for instance? >> Great question. So, we had, one of the things that the, even back in April 2020, the Air force was recognized by military.com for recruiting and how they use to keep their numbers up, to get in front of recruits. And think about this, if I'm a recruiter, I can't drive three hours to go see somebody, find out if they can join or not and come back. Now they could use Zoom, something that people were comfortable with. Ease of use, simple, ingrained in the fabric of people's lives. Now they could have that, keeping their numbers up and being recognized by a two star general for what they did around the recruiting and keeping the numbers up. >> All right. So I'll ask you cause I know you have a federal background with one. You know the industry pretty well, over the years you've stunned. You've seen the old way now, the new way, what's it like at Zoom? Because you guys exploded onto the scene. Been around for a while, but once you hit the tipping point, it was a rocket ship plus the pandemic. Now you come into federal. You've got FedRAMP issues, what do you do? How do you get through all that? >> We were excited about the fact that we're really catapulted us. We were at FedRAMP Impact Level 2, Moderate back in April of 2019. So, what set the groundwork? So when the pandemic occurred, we were able to explode forward, help our customers. Now, we've even looked past that and go, "What do we do next?" DOD Impact Level 4. We have an authorization to operate with conditions from the Department of the Air Force. And it was set as we go through our provisional process with DISA. The exciting part is, our customers can use this. Now, they have a set of conditions. Those conditions are basically guidelines of how to use and set up an IL-4 call. >> So, just Impact Level 4 is just below top secret if I understand that correct, right? >> So, Impact Level 4 allows our customers and the DOD to use it for a CUI, which is Controlled Unclassified Information or FOUO, For Official Use only conversations. >> Got it. And there's six levels, right? >> Yes. >> Five, six is like the ultimate, like- >> yes. >> super top secret, secret. >> Yes. >> Okay, cool. All right. So four is good? >> It's very good. >> So this is interesting, in 2019, you've mentioned that stuff. That kind of highlights the whole Cloud way before the pandemic. The winners and losers tend to see who was winning and who's losing. And I think a lot of agencies realize the ones that were in the cloud early before the pandemic and the ones that didn't get there fast enough are really lagging behind. What's your reaction to that? >> Well, you're absolutely right. And the interesting thing about the pandemic, what it brought forth is a horrible event, but what it brought forth was transformation that customers had to go through. So think of it this way. If a customer, you know, they were at all this equipment sitting on staff, on site and they had to go home. And all of a sudden when they went home, legacy systems could not transform and allow them to evolve into this work from home environment. So, what it brought forth of these systems that were just not capable of being able to scale. And all of a sudden, as they went forward, they were able to go ahead and us. For us, it was easy because ease of use, scalability, innovation, extensibility and security, allowed us to really jump right in there. And as people I mentioned earlier, it became ingrained in the fabric of people's lives. So, the ease of use for everybody made it easy for them to move home. >> Yeah. And that's a big impact. All right. Let me ask about the Amazon Marketplace, AWS Marketplace. News there? Share. >> Yeah. We're excited we announced over the last two days, we've announced our relationship with AWS, and the AWS Marketplace via Kairosoft. So, Kairosoft is a world-class public sector distributor. The great relationship we have there that help us really accelerate this relationship was Amazon already had that AWS Marketplace distributor. We had Kairosoft as our main distributor for all Public Sector, solar suburb. So, the relationship already there and with the integration with Tackle.io, allowed us to really accelerate this relationship and be able to transact for our customers. And you think about the transaction, now our customers can start to leverage AWS contracts and accelerate the pieces that they have across there. >> Talk about the Tackle.io piece, how does that fit in? Cause you've got Kairosoft, Distributor, Zoom, what's Tackle do? They integrate? >> Tackle was just the integration piece allowed us to get these transactions going for back and forth. So, the transaction you think about, a customer will buy through AWS contract. They'll get transacted through the AWS Marketplace at Kairosoft, and it come to Zoom from there. Tackle.io was just the integration piece allowed that to happen. >> Yeah. And just a plug for Tackle.io. Those guys are start-up that's growing really fast. They make it easy. The Marketplace is not that easy. (laughs) Dave McCain would argue with me, but yeah, it's can be unwieldy, but they manage it and make it easier. >> Matt: Well, if you think about typically, if you had direct integration, it would take you many months to get through that process and a lot of times. This helped us, with the Marketplace being at Kairosoft, and Tackle.io, allowed us to really accelerate this relationship. >> I mean, that's a consumption model in the future. I mean, you're looking at, from a Zoom standpoint, you look at the marketplace, that's just more distribution. That's a selling vehicle for you, right? >> Exactly. But it's also, you think, but it's selling people for us. But you think about it from the customer side. If they have a contract already in place and they have consumption, you know, minimums they have to hit and they can be a part of the solution set now that we come together. It really becomes that, "Hey yeah, it's easy to use as a great way." But now we're giving, as we mentioned earlier, an acceleration point for our customers to drive that innovation and quickly procure it. >> Now, you've been around the block on Public Sector. You've seen the waves of innovation over the years. Now, it's kind of like the perfect storm. Multiple waves colliding into a big wave with cloud and with the new normal that's coming. From telemedicine to education, to military, to top secret, to distribution via marketplaces cloud scale, where there's now a new stack emerging, horizontal and vertical. What is your take on that as a industry participant? You're like, "We're putting perspective." Like how big is this compared to what was once other waves? >> Well, you know, what the pandemic brought forth was, as Max mentioned earlier today in his keynote, it really accelerated transformation of people how to do it, which would may take three to five years. Took weeks and months. Now we have the opportunity to go forward and really push this and say, "How do we transform while this pandemic happened?" People are now, the governments are, in education are now looking at transformation on how they accelerate this for the next five to seven years. Because the decisions are making, the money they're settling, and the investments they're making are transforming how they're going to do that. And they realize they cannot do it the way they did it before. >> Well, congratulations in all the success that Zoom, for you and your teammates. Eric, over there as CEO and Collin, and the rest of the team, Ross Mayfield, amongst others. We love you guys. I think you're great company. You really made a dent in the universe in a positive way. I'm looking forward to seeing what's on the roadmap. IOT devices, edge, what's happening? >> Actually, it's great timing of that because we just had our Zoomtopia. So we announced a number of different innovative things that we've done out there, white boarding and such. That really is going to come forward. So I would encourage everybody to go to the Zoom website, look at some of the videos we had from Zoomtopia. Talked about some of the actual, really cool innovative things that we've done. >> John: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, almost imagined was the camera technology, the collaboration technology, things are going to be a little bit different. It's not going to be what people think it's going to be. It might look different. What's your view on that? >> I think it's going to look different than it was a year ago. I think it's going to look different than two years from now. And so, with innovation, we look at, we have hundreds of different innovative things that occurred out there. So we look at, you know, virtual classrooms, things that they have out there to change the environment, to make that feel like it's a real life experience. And that's what makes the difference on us. >> You know, I watched companies like Facebook saying, they're going to drop 50 million into metaverse for the next two years. They're throwing engineers at it. But all it points down to is a better user experience. That's the goal, right? To make that user experience immersive, clean, elegant, simple but effective. >> Yeah. It's intuitive. It's the number one thing I hear form every single person. They want something easy to use when the send them home, they want to be able to turn it on for it to work. And we had one department, one agency has sent people home. They found the productivity was doing so well that they actually have decided to hire people in different parts of the country. It's very specialized group around, it moved the D.C. area. Now it's changed the whole scope of how you bring people in with these different skillsets, how not having a move to an area. We'll be able to leverage them at a remote location, but really embrace that expertise. >> Matt, thank you for coming on theCUBE, Matt Mandrgoc, Head of Public Sector. U.S. Public Sector for Zoom. A name you're going to keep hearing about more and more. It's not going away. Establish themselves as the leader in collaboration, certainly video meetings, conferences, events. Thanks for coming on. >> Matt: Thanks for having me on theCUBE. >> Okay. Well, more coverage from a live personal in-person event with remote Zoom's coming in as hybrid. It's theCUBE coverage of AWS Summit 2021, here in Washington, DC. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (soft music)

(funky music) >> Announcer: From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Everyone, welcome to this special CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California with CUBE Studios. I'm John Furrier, your host of this CUBE Conversation with Dheeraj Pandey, CEO of Nutanix. CUBE alumni, very special part of our community. Great to see you again, thanks for coming in. We're previewing your big show coming up, Nutanix NEXT in Europe. Thanks for joining me. >> It's an honor. >> It's always great to get you. I saw your interview on Bloomberg with Emily Chang. Kind of short interview, but still, you're putting the message out there. You've been talking software. We covered your show here in North America. Clearly moving to the subscription model, and I want to get into that conversation. I think there's some notable things to talk about now that we're in this cloud 2.0 era, as we're calling it, kind of a goof on web 2.0. But cloud 2.0 is a whole shift happening, and you've been on it for a while. But you got the event coming up in Europe, Nutanix NEXT. What's the focus? Give a quick plug for that event. Let's talk about that. >> Yeah, in fact, the reiteration of the message is a key part of any of our user conferences. We have 14,000 customers around the world now, across 150 countries. We've done almost more than $5 billion worth of just software business in the last six, seven years of selling. It's a billion six run rate. There's a lot going on in the business, but we need to take a step back and in our user conference talk about the vision. So what's the vision of Nutanix? And the best part is that it hasn't changed. It's basically one of those timeless things that hopefully will withstand the test of time in the future as well. Make computing invisible anywhere. People scratch their heads. What does computing mean? What does invisible mean? What does anywhere mean? And that's where we'll actually go to these user conferences, talk about what is computing for us. Is it just infrastructure? Is it infrastructure and platform? Now that we're getting into desktop delivery, is it also about business users and applications? The same thing about invisible, what's invisible? For us, it's always been a special word. It's a very esoteric word. If you think about the B2B world, it doesn't talk about the word invisible a lot. But for us it's a very profound word. It's about autonomous software. It's about continuous, virtues of continuous delivery, continuous consumption, continuous mobility. That's how you make things invisible. And subscription is a big part of that continuous delivery message and continuous consumption message. >> So the event is October 9th, around the first week of October. You got some time there, but getting geared up for that. I wanted to ask you what you've learned from the North America conference and going into the European conference. It's ultimately the same message, same vision, with a tweak, you got some time under your belt since then. The subscription model business, which you were talking in your Bloomberg interview, is in play. It is not a new thing. It's been in operation for a while. Could you talk about that specifically? Because I think most people would say, hey, hardware to software, hard to do. Software subscription, hard to maintain and grow. Where are you on that transition? Explain and clarify your mix of business, hardware, software. Where are you in the progress of that transformation? >> Well, you know, I have been a big student of history, and I can't think of a company that's gone from hardware to software and software subscription in such a short span. Actually, I don't know of any company. If you know of one, please let me know. But why? The why of subscription is to be frictionless. Hybrid is impossible without having the same kind of consumption model, both on-prem and off-prem. And if we didn't go through that, we would be hypocritical as a company to talk about cloud and hybrid itself. The next 10 years for this company is about hybrid, and doing it as if private and public are one in the same is basically the essence of Nutanix's architecture. >> Well, I can think of some hardware-software dynamics that, again, might not match your criteria, but some might say Apple. Is it a software or hardware company? Hardware drives the ecosystem, they commoditize it. Peloton bicycle is a bike, but it's mainly a software business and in-person business. So there's different models. Oracle has hardware, they have software. It doesn't always relate to the enterprise. What's the argument to say, hey, why don't you just create your own box and kick ass with that box, or is it just different dynamics? What's that? >> Well, there's a tension in the system. People want to buy experiences as opposed to buying things. They don't want to integrate things, like, oh, I need to actually now get a hardware vendor to behave as a software vendor when it comes to support issues and such. And at the same time, you want to be flexible and portable. How do you really work with the customer with their relationships that they have with their hardware vendors? So the word anywhere in our vision is exactly that. It's like, okay, we can work on multiple servers, multiple hypervisors, and multiple clouds. At the end of the day, the customer experience is king. And that's one thing that the last 10 years has taught us, John, if anything, is don't sell things to people. You know, Kubernetes is a thing. Cloud is a thing. Can you really go sell experiences? The biggest lesson in the last year for us has been integrate better. Not just with partners, but also within your own products. And now if you can do that well, customers will buy from you. >> I think you just kind of clarified where I was thinking out loud, because if you think about Apple, the hardware is part of the experience. So they have to have it. >> Mm-hmm. >> You don't have to have the hardware to create those experiences. Is that right? >> Absolutely, which is why it's now 2% of our business, and yet we are saying that we take the burden of responsibility of supporting it, integrating with it. One of the biggest issues with cloud is operations. What is operations? It's day two patching. How do you do day two patching? Intel is coming up with microcode upgrades every quarter now because of security reasons. If we are not doing an awesome job of one-click upgrade of firmware and microcode and BIOS, we don't belong in the hybrid cloud world. I think that's the level of mundaneness that we've gotten to with our software that makes us such a high NPS company with our customers. >> I want to just drill in on the notion of a thing versus experience. You mentioned Kubernetes is a thing. I would say Hadoop was a thing. But Hadoop was a great example. It was hard to do. Kubernetes, jury's still out. People love them. Kubernetes, we'll see how that goes. If it can be abstracted away, it's not a thing anymore. We'll see. But Hadoop was a great example. Unbelievable technology direction, big data, all the goodness of object storage and unstructured data. We knew that. Just hard to work with. Setting up clusters, managing clusters. And it ended up being the death of the sector, in my opinion. What is an experience? Define what does that mean. Is it frictionless only? Is there a trust equation? Just unpack your vision on what that means. A thing, which could be a box with software on it, and experience, which is something different. >> Yeah, I mean, now you start to unpeel the word experience. It's really about being frictionless, trusted, and invisible. If you can really do these things well, around the word, define frictionless. Well, it has to be consumer-grade. It has to be web scalable, 'cause customers are looking for the Amazon architecture inside, and aren't just going and renting it from Amazon, but also saying, can I get the same experience inside? So you've got to make it web scale. You've got to make it consumer-grade. Because our operators and users, talk about Hadoop, I mean, they struggled with the experience of Hadoop itself because it was a thing, it was a technology, as opposed to being something that was consumer-grade itself. And then finally, security. Trust is very important. We must secure always on resilient. The word resilience is very important. In fact, that's one of the things we'll actually talk about at our conference, is resilience. What does it mean, not just for Nutanix stock, to be where it is today from where it was six months ago. And that's what I'm most proud of, is you go through these transitions, you actually talk about resilience of software, resilience of systems, resilience of customer support, and resilience of companies. >> So you mentioned hybrid cloud. We were talking before we came on camera about hybrid cloud. But software's a two-way relationship. Talk about what you mean by that, and then I want to ask you a follow-up question of where hardware may or may be an opportunity or a problem in that construct. >> Yeah, I mean, look, in the world of hybrid, what's really important is delivering an experience that's really without silos. Ideally, on-prem infrastructure is an availability zone. How do you make it look like an availability zone that can stand up shoulder-to-shoulder with a public cloud availability zone? That's where you sell an experience. That's how you talk about a management plane where you can actually have a single pane of glass that really delivers a cloud experience both ways. >> You're kind of a contrarian. I always love interviewing you because you seem to be on the next wave before any realizes it. Right now everyone's trying to go on-premise and you're moving from on-premise to the cloud. Not you guys moving, but your whole vision is. You've been there, done that on premises. Now you've got to be where the customers are, which is where they need to be, which is the cloud. I heard you say that. It's interesting, you're going the other way, right? >> Mm-hmm. But you could look at the infrastructure and say, hey, there's a lot of hardware inside these clouds that have a lot of hardware-specific features like hardware assist that software or network latency might not be able to deliver. Is that a missed opportunity for you guys, or does your software leverage these trends? And even on premises, there's hardware offload-like features coming. How do you reconcile that? Because I would just argue inside of the company, say, hey, Dheeraj, let's not go all in on software. We can maximize this new technology, this thing, for our software. How do you-- >> Look, I think if you look at our features, like security, the way we use TPM, which is a piece of assist that you get from Intel's motherboards for doing key encryption management. What does it mean to really do encryption at scale using Intel's vectored instructions? How do you do RDMA? How do you look at InfiniBand? How do you look at Optane drives? We've been really good at that lowest level, but making sure that it's actually selling a solution that can then go drive SAP HANA and Oracle databases and GPU for graphics and desktops. So as a company, we don't talk about those things because they are the how of the business. You don't talk about the how. You'd rather talk about the why and the what, actually. >> So from a business strategy standpoint, I just want to get this clear because there's downfalls for getting into the hardware business. You know them. Inventory, all these hardware cycles are moving fast. You mentioned Intel shipping microcode for security reasons. So you're basically saying you'd rather optimize for decoupling hardware from the software and ride the innovation of the hardware guys, like Nvidia and Intel and others. >> Absolutely, and do it faster than anybody else, but more integrated than anybody else. You know, all together now is kind of our message for .NEXT. How do you bring it all together? Because the world is struggling with things, and that's the opportunity for Nutanix. >> Well, I would say making compute invisible is a great tagline. I would add storage and networking to that too. >> Yeah, computing, by the way. >> Computing. >> I said computing. >> Okay, computing. >> 'Cause computing is compute storage networking. Computing is infrastructure, platform, and apps. It's a very clever word, and it's a very profound word as well. >> Well, let's just throw Kubernetes in there too and move up the stack, because ultimately, we're writing a lot of stories on covering this editorially, is that the world's flipped upside down. It used to be the infrastructure. We're calling this cloud 2.0, like I said earlier. The world used to be the infrastructure enabled what the apps could do, and they were limited to the resources they had. Now the apps are in charge. They're dictating terms below the software line, if you want to call it the app line. So the apps are in charge now. Whoever can serve up the best infrastructure capability, which changes the entire computing industry because now the suppliers who can deliver that elastic or flexible capacity or resource, wins. >> Absolutely. >> And that's ultimately a complete shift. >> You know, I tell people, John, about the strategy of Nutanix because we have some apps now. Frame is an app for us. Beam is an app. Calm is an app. These are apps, they're drawn on the platform, which is the core platform of Nutanix, the core hyper-convergence innovation that we did. If you go back to the '90s, who was to say that Windows really fueled Office or Office fueled Windows? They had to work in conjunction, because without one, there would be no, the other, actually. So without Office there would be no Windows. Without Windows there would be no Office. How platforms and apps work with each other synergistically is at the core of delivering that experience. >> I want to add just you're a student of history. As an entrepreneur, you've been there through the many waves and you also invest a lot, and I want to ask you this question. It used to be that platforms was the holy grail. You'd go to a VC and say, hey, I'm building a platform. Big time investment. An entrepreneur will come back: I got a tool. You're a feature. You're a feature, not a platform. Platforms was the elite engineering position to come in to look for the big money. How would you define platforms now? Because with cloud, if apps are in charge, and there's potential features that are coming around the corner that no one's yet invented, what is this platform 2.0 world look like if you were coming out of grad school or you were a young engineer or a young entrepreneur? How do you think about that right now? >> Well, the biggest thing is around extensibility and openness. You know, we were talking about openness before, but the idea of APIs, where API is the new graphically why, because the developer is the builder. And how do you really go sell to them and still deliver a great experience? And not just from the point of view of, well, I've given you the best APIs, but the best SDKs. What does it mean to give them a development kit that gets them up and running in no time? And maybe even a graphical Kickstarter. We're working with our partners a lot, where it's not just about delivering APIs or raw APIs because they're not as consumable, but to deliver SDKs and to deliver graphical structural kits to them so that they can be up and running, building applications in two months rather than two years. I think that's at the core of what our platform is. >> And data and having an operating system thinking seems to be another common pattern. Understand the subsystems of data. Running and assembling things together. >> I think what is Nutanix, I mean, if people ask me what is Nutanix, I start with data. Data is the core of the company. We've done data for virtualization. We're now doing data for applications with Nutanix Files. We have object store data. We are doing Era, which is database as a service. Without data, we'd be dead as a company. That's how important it is. Now, how do you meld that with design and delivery is basically where the three Ds come together: data-- >> I wrote a blog post. Dave Vellante always laughs when I bring this up because he always references it too. In 2007 I said, data is the new development kit. 'Cause back then, development kits existed. SDKs, software development kits. MSDN was Microsoft's thing. You remember those glory days, Dheeraj, I know. But the thesis was, if data does actually come in, it's actually an input into the software. This is what I think you guys are doing that is clever that's not well understood, is data is an input, like a software library almost. A module, but it's dynamic and it's always changing. And writing software for that is a nouveau kind of thing. This is new. >> Yeah, I know, and delivered to the developer, because right now data and hardware data is sitting in silos which are mainframe-like systems. How do you deliver it where they can spin it up on their own? Making sure that we democratize data is the biggest challenge in most companies. >> We're in a new era, I think you just pointed that out, and we talk about it at CUBE all the time. We don't really talk about up-front. It used to be UI was the thing, user interface, ease of use. I think now the new table stake feature in all companies is if you can't show value instantly in any solution that has a thing or things in it, then it's pretty much not going to happen. I mean, this is the new expectation that becomes the experience for-- >> Yeah, I mean, millennials are the new developers, and they need to actually see instant gratification, many of these-- >> Well, cost too. I don't want to spend a million dollars to find out it didn't work. I want to maybe spend something variable. >> And look, agility, the cliched word, and I don't want to talk about agility per se, but at the end of the day it's all about, can we provide that experience where you don't have to really learn something over 18 months and provide it in the next three hours. >> Great conversation here with Dheeraj Pandey, CEO of Nutanix, about his vision. I always loved your software vision. You guys have smart engineers there. Let's talk about your company. I think a lot of people at your conference and your community and others want to know, is how you're doing and how the company's doing. Because I think you guys are in the midst of a major transition we talked about earlier, hardware to software, software to subscription, recurring revenue. I mean, it's pretty much a disruptive enabler for you guys at one level as an opportunity. It's changing how you do accounting. It's having product management. Your customers are going to consume it differently. It's been a big challenge. And stock's taken a little bit of a hit, but you're kind of playing the long game. Talk about the growth strategy as you guys go forward. This has been a struggle. There's been some personnel changes in the company. What's going on? Give us the straight scoop. >> Yeah, in fact the biggest thing is about the transformation for this coming decade. And there's fundamental things that need to change for the world of cloud. Otherwise, you're basically just talking the word rather than walking the walk itself. So this last quarter I was very pleased to announce that we finally showed the first strong point of this whole transformation. There's a really good data point coming out that the company is growing back again. We beat street estimates on pretty much every metric. Billings, revenue, gross margin. And we also guided above street estimates for billings, revenue, and gross margin, and I think that's probably one of the biggest things I'm proud of in the last six, nine months of this subscription transition. We're also telling the street about how to look at us from software and support billings point of view as opposed to looking at overall billings and revenue. If you take a step back into the company, I talk about this in our earnings call, 'til three years ago, we were a commercial company, also doing federal and some international. And the last three years we proved to ourselves and to the community that we can do enterprise, you know, high-end customers, upmarket, and also do a very good job of international. Now, the next three years is really about saying, can we do both enterprise and commercial together? All together now, which is also our, coincidentally, our .NEXT message, is the proof that we actually have to go and show that we can do federal, enterprise, and commercial to really build a very large business from it. >> Well, federal's got certification levels. We know that's different depending upon which agency you're talking to. Commercial, a little bit different ball game. SaaS becomes important, cloud becomes important. The big trend is on-premise hardware. Outposts for AWS, Azure Stack for Microsoft. How do you fit into that? Because you, again, you said you're both ways. >> Mm-hmm. >> So are you worried about that? Is that a headwind, tailwind for you? What's the impact for this now fashionable on-premises shift? Which I think is just a temporary thing as cloud continues to grow. But I still argue with Michael Dell about this. I think cloud is going to be a bigger TAM. Even though there's a huge total addressable market on enterprise, that's like saying there's a great TAM for horses and buggies when cars are coming out. It's different world between public cloud and on-premises. How does that impact Nutanix, this on-premise-- >> Well, remember I said about the word anywhere in our vision? Make computing invisible anywhere? With software you can actually reduce the tension between public and private. It's not this or that. It's this and that. Our software running on Outpost is a reality. It's not like we're saying, Outpost is one thing and Nutanix is another. And that's the value of software. It's so fungible, it's so portable, that you don't have to take sides between-- >> Are you guys at ISV inside Amazon Marketplace? >> No, but again, it's still a thing. Marketplace is still not where it should be, and it's hard to search and discover things from there. So we are saying, let's do it right. Remember, we were not the first hyper-convergence company. Right? We were probably the ninth one, like the way Google was as a search engine, actually. But we did it right, because the experience mattered. You know that search box that did everything? That's what Nutanix's overall experience is today. We will do the public cloud right with our software so that we can use the customer's credits with Amazon-- >> But you're still selling direct. And your partners. >> Well, everything is coming through partners, so at the end of the day we have to do an even better job of that, like what we're doing at HPE now. I think being able to go and find that common ground with partners is what commercial is all about. Commercial is a lot about distribution. As a company, we've done a really good job of enterprise and federal. But doing it with partners-- >> What are the biggest impact areas for your business and business model, elements with software transition that you're scaling up on the subscription side? What are the biggest areas? >> Well, one is just communication, 'cause obviously a lot is changing. At a private company, things change, nobody cares. The board just needs to know about it. But at a public company, we have investors in the public market. And many of them are in the nosebleeding section, actually, of this arena. So really, you're sitting in the arena, being the man in the arena, or the woman in the arena. How do you really take this message to the bleachers section is probably the biggest one, actually. >> Well, I think one of the things I've always speculated on, you look at the growth of, just pick some stocks that we all know. VMware, Microsoft. You look at the demarcation point where, right when the stock was low to high was the shift to cloud and software. With VMware, it was they had a failing strategy and they kill it and they do a deal with Amazon. Game has changed, now they're all in the software-defined data center. Microsoft, Satya Nadella comes in, boom, they're in cloud. Real commitment. And with Microsoft specifically, that was a real management commitment. They were committed to software. They were committed to the cloud business model, and took whatever medicine they needed to take. >> That's it. That's it, you take short-term pain for long-term gain, and look, anything that becomes large over time, to me it's all about long-term greed, and I use this word a lot. I want all our employees and our customers and our investors to really think about the word. There's greed, but it's long-term greed, and that's how most companies have become large over time. So I think for us to have done this right, to say, look, we are set for the next 10 years, was very important. >> It's interesting. Everyone wants to be like Jeff Bezos. Everyone wants to be like you guys now, because long-term greed or long-term thinking is the new fashion. It's the new standard and tack. >> Yeah, I mean, look the CEOs, the top 200 CEOs, came out and talked about, are we taking good care of main street, or are we just focused on this hamster wheel of three months reporting to Wall Street alone? And I think consensus is emerging that you got to take care of main street. You and I were talking about, that I look at investors as customers, and I look at customers as investors. Which is really kind of a contrarian way of thinking about it. >> It's interesting. We live in the world, we've seen many waves. I think the wave we're on now from an entrepreneurial and venture creation standpoint, whether you're public or private, is the long game is the new 3D chess. It's where the masters are playing their best game. You look at the results of the best companies. I just bought the book about Uber from Mike Isaac from the New York Times. Short-term thinking, win at all costs, that's not the 3D chess game that's going on with entrepreneurs these days. All the investment thesis is stay long-term. And certainly now, with this perceived bubble popping, or this downturn that may or may not happen, long-term game is more important than ever. Your thoughts on it? >> I think the word authenticity has never been more important, not just in the Valley, but around the world, actually. What you're seeing with all this Me Too movement and a lot of skeletons in the cupboard out there, I think at the end of the day, the word authentic cannot be artificially created. It has to come from within. What you talk about, Satya... I look at Shantanu Narayen, the Adobe CEO, and they're authentic CEOs. I mean, I look at Dara now, at Uber, he's talking about bringing authenticity to Uber. I think there's no shortcuts to success in this world. >> I think Adobe's a great example. What they've done has been amazing. I know you're on the board there, so congratulations. Final word, I'll let you get your plug in for the event and your customer base. Talk to your customers and investors out there that might watch this. From your state of mind, what's the state of the union for Nutanix? Speak directly to your customers and investors right now. >> Well, the tagline for .NEXT Copenhagen is all together now. We're bringing clouds together. We're bringing app infrastructure and data together. I think it's a really large opportunity for us to go sell an experience to our customers, rather than selling things. All these buzzwords that come up in technology, as a company, we've done a really good job of integrating them, and the next decade is about integrating the public cloud and the private cloud. And I look at investors and customers alike. I talk about long-term greed with them. Providing an experience to them is the core of our journey. >> Thanks for your insight, Dheeraj. This was a CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (funky music)

>> Announcer: From the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE. Covering Coupa Inspire 2019, brought to you by Coupa. >> Welcome to theCUBE, at Coupa Inspire '19. I'm Lisa Martin on the ground, at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas, and we're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Michael Van Keulen, Global Procurement Director of Lululemon Athletica. Michael, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> I'm a big Lulu fan, have been for many, many years. If anybody doesn't know Lululemon, this is a three plus billion dollar designer, distributor, and retailer of really cool technical athletic apparel. You've been there for a few years now, came from a finance background. One of the things that I love about Lululemon is the inspirational messages on the bags. Anytime I'm in a grocery store and you have to bring your own bags, and I'm nearsighted and I can spot a Lululemon bag from a mile away. Talk to us about just one of the examples of this procurement transformation that you helped initiate, when you came in and found something really interesting about this iconic bag. >> Sure, yeah, so when I joined the company you start to do your basic spend cube analysis and trying to figure out where the big spend items are. And given that the bag is so visible for everybody, I figured that's really a big volume, lots of spend, very visible, and very important to our business. So I started to dig in to our shopping bag as a category. And I uncovered that it was single-sourced with one factory in Cambodia, with a nine month lead time. But nobody in the company really knew that. So when I was put in front of our senior executives to talk about where do I feel there's opportunity, there was some pushback on me digging into our shopper and there was even perspective in the senior executive teams that I didn't really understand how important our shopper is. And then when I asked the question, where does the shopper come from? Where is it made? How is it made? What's the lead time? What's the cost? There were lots of unknowns, and when I threw that on the table and said, "Well, it's single-sourced, "one factory, in Cambodia", you could immediately see a lot of people going like, "Wow, that's very interesting." And they started to realize that procurement is not just about saving money, which we also did, but it's also about de-risking our supply chain, being more nimble and more agile. >> Yes, I was going to say that what you discovered was a massive risk to the brand. I think the bag, is the number one brand asset? >> Michael: Totally. >> It's very visible. But that was really the tip of the iceberg of some of the things you came in saying, "You know, as procurement, "there is a massive, massive, many massive, "impact elements that it can have on the business." >> Michael: Right. >> So going from sort of a tactical to a strategic approach. How was the bag, as an example, able to start helping you transform the culture of Lulu to be more strategic and start looking at all of the other ways in which this business can derive value from a number of the other elements besides the bag. >> Yeah, so we started to identify, what are some of our core principles when it comes to how we source, and how we procure. Those are things to me, like fact-based decision making, analytics, knowing what you buy, how you buy, where you buy, competitive pressure, making sure the suppliers realize that we have options in the marketplace. I mean, those are some of the key components of running a competitive department that drives a competitive advantage. And that's really what we focus on at Lululemon in procurement. >> Some of the disruptors that we see in procurement and finance today are consumerization. Rob Bernstein talked about it this morning with some of the things that Coupa is now doing with the Amazon Marketplace. But as consumers, whether we're consuming Lululemon products or software, we have choice. We also have this expectation that we can go somewhere and find anybody that's selling this particular product, I can see the prices, I can see, the pricing pressures put on, I can see all the different suppliers. So the consumerization sort of disruptor, is really interesting to every industry. How are you leveraging that to, to really drive much more value. Not just saving costs, but even things like impacting shareholder value for Lulu? >> Yeah, I think table stakes today is just managing spend, right? Knowing where your money goes, and trying to make sure that we stretch the dollars as much as we can, I think is what every procurement function does. I think what distinguishes the world class from the let's say, the middle of the pack, is are you able to contribute to top-line growth? How are you able to innovate? Are you able to innovate through your suppliers? And so one example, this is how we implemented third-party gift cards at many grocers across North America. That was an idea generating from procurement, tying into gift cards that we already source and that we now have third-party gift cards at the Kroeger's and the likes. That just drive more traffic to our stores. And that's just through a really exciting, cool idea, that wouldn't necessarily come from a procurement, traditional procurement function, but one that really wants to contribute to future growth. >> One that wants to contribute to future growth, that has a strategic vision. When we look at the Coupa community, there's now $1.2 trillion of transactions going through that. There's a tremendous amount of data, and we go to so many conferences at theCUBE every year, and we hear very commonly, data is the new oil. >> Michael: Totally. >> Data is gold. It is those things if you have the right, if you have visibility and the opportunity to extract value from it and act on it immediately. Talk to me a little bit more about the third-party gift card approach, and was that something that you said we have so much more visibility, into our data, into our consumers, into our suppliers. There's an obvious low-hanging fruit opportunity here. How did that data help you make that decision? >> Yeah, no this was more an idea where you start to look at what value can procurement drive other than just managing and reducing cost? And every other big apparel retailer is already in this third-party space and Lululemon is not. And the power of our company is we are vertically integrated. You can only buy our product at Lululemon, and some select strategic partners. But opening up the doors for people to be experiencing our brand in a different way, through purchasing a gift card or being gifted a gift card, I should say, and that audience then now comes into our store. It just could potentially be a completely new guest. And that is what is super exciting. >> So let's talk about some of the business impact of that. So, I would like to be on the receiving end of the Lulu gift card, for anybody who's watching my birthday's in March. (Michael laughing) But in terms of what are some of the things that you've seen map back to top line impact from that. Increase in new customers acquired, increase in customer lifetime value, what are some of those big impacts that procurement has made with what seems like an, aha, this is a simple idea, we should be doing this too. >> I think what Lululemon does better than any retailer on the planet is our educators. Right, our educators in our stores. And so, it's my job is how do I set these guys up for success? So I think one way we're now doing and leveraging the Coupa platform, is taking away administrative complexity. So the lesser the administrative burden is on our stores and our educators, the better they are with engaging with our guests. And educating them on our product, why we make it, what it does, so that our consumers that we call guests, ultimately, not just make the transaction, but also buy the right product, they know what the product is supposed to do for them. And how it's supposed to fit and how it's supposed to help them in their daily lives. And so what procurement really does is just take away that complexity that they have today, so that they can focus on what they do best. >> So walk me through who within, so one of the things that Coupa does, is more than I think any of their competitors, is it's procurement, it's invoices, expenses, payments. Tell me about all the different ways in which Lululemon is leveraging Coupa and walk me through kind of an average user experience. This is somebody, like an individual contributor in marketing or finance. Give me a little bit of a taste of that. >> Yeah, so we use Coupa for sourcing, contracting, requisitioning, purchase orders, and then flip that PO into pay, so we use the full suite of solution. The biggest focus for us is on the downstream, as we call, Procure to Pay. So it's a lot of people placing requisitions, and that can be in marketing, it could be in the store, it could be in any part of our business, really. And the downstream is the most important element, because that's where the visibility comes. And then from a procurement standpoint, we use the Sourcing and the CLM platform. But the downstream is where the magic happens. >> So is every business unit within Lululemon on the Coupa platform? >> So we launched North America on February 4th, we're live in 18 stores as a pilot, and we're going to roll out all of North America, the entire fleet, in August. >> So just February of 2019, so just what, five months or so ago. And the impact to the business that you've seen with just these first 18 stores? >> Yeah, it's not just the 18 stores, it's inclusive of our head office and our distribution centers in North America. We just now focus on supplier enablement, more suppliers on the platform, more spend through the portal, and with the stores it's a pilot. It's going really well and if the stores are going to get it I'm pretty sure they will be very pleased. >> So, we talked about kind of the consumer, the guest experience, supplier centricity. What have you achieved with respect to supplier centricity, using Coupa, and how is that affecting everybody up to the C-suite in your organization in terms of, wow, procurement is really a business engine, here we do invest in. >> Yeah I think our, if you look at our journey when we started three years ago where we literally had no real procurement as it is described today, we're still in that journey of maximizing our supplier relationships. And through our supplier relationships, really drive innovation. I think we're not entirely there yet, I think that is one of the next iterations, is how do we take procurement to the next level. >> And if you look back at the last few years, what surprises you about coming from a finance background, now being in charge of procurement for a major global brand. What are some of the things that surprise you about this future of procurement and where Lululemon is setup to be successful? >> I think the biggest surprise is that people never intentionally do business with a company that we may or we should be doing business with. People never intentionally do that, it's just because they don't ask the right questions around ownership structure and risk and sustainability, and reputational risk and environmental risk, and just cost aside. And what I think what procurement helps to do is to actually ask all those questions. So that we end up with the right company, with the right pricing, the right quality, the right specs, the right everything. I think that's what surprised me, is that missing link that procurement brings to the table. >> So if you had to give your peers, in any industry, some advice would it be first of all, help establish a culture that is willing to ask questions. 'Cause there's that whole thing too, right? We always think, well maybe it's a dumb question. Have that culture that is, no question is a dumb question, ask, ask, ask. >> Yeah and Lulu is, fortunately enough, such a young company so I had a lot of great stakeholders, I still have them today, that are highly supportive. It's never just me or my team, it is collaboration, it's cross-functional. Everybody has to have something in it, right? So Lulu's a very young company. So if you're a very, maybe mature organization where people are set in their ways it just becomes a little. So I used to work for VF Corps, which is a slightly more mature, been around for 100 years. There it required more convincing than maybe at Lululemon where, again, people are just, the population is much younger. And we needed more structure and people recognized that. >> The appetite was there. >> The appetite was there, for sure. >> Last question for you, Michael. Some of the things that are being announced this week at Inspire, we heard this morning about, we mentioned a minute ago about the size of the Coupa community. The amount of data, the value that it's driving for customers and for suppliers. Also they talked about this Amazon Marketplace that they're expanding this relationship so that IT folks can have this full suite of visibility. What excites you most about the direction that Coupa is going in? >> I mean, it's the data, it's the native integrations with Amazon and the likes, absolutely. What excites me the most in terms of the different modules is Coupa Pay. I've been wanting to go after dynamic discounting, that's what Coupa Pay is going to enable us to do. Virtual pay is another big opportunity where we can start flowing a lot of our payments through a virtual payment system, our payment cards, that excites me. But it's the data, and it's how do we as a community start to leverage our spend, I think will be absolutely awesome. I look forward to that. >> Yes and that collaborative spirit this morning was really palpable. Well, Michael it's been a pleasure to have you on theCUBE today. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations on what you've done at Lulu, and for Lulu being a Coupa Spendsetter. >> Thank you. >> For Michael Van Keulen, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE from Coupa Inspire '19, thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Magento Imagine 2019. (fizzing) (upbeat music) Brought to you by Adobe. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick at Imagine 2019, the Wynn, Las Vegas, with about 3500 customers, lots of partners, lots of developers, a lot of energy here. And speaking of energy, we have Jason Woosley, VP of commerce at Adobe. Jason, you came onto the stage this morning from the clouds suspended. Talk about energy. >> It was a lot of energy, and there was a message behind it, right? (clears throat) I mean we really are talking about our Cloud penetration and how that is the future. So, you know, I got to do something really cool and check something off the bucket list where I actually did descend from the sky onto the stage. It was the best Imagine entrance I've ever done (Lisa laughing) and really does talk about, you know, how important our Cloud Strategy is. Thanks for having me on, by the way. >> Absolutely. >> Our pleasure. >> So, a lot of energy here, again, community, community, community. We go to so many shows, so many people are desperate to engage developers. And you guys have that in your core. It's been there from day one. Continues to be such an important part of who you are as well as the road forward. >> It's the reason for why we are where we are today. I mean bar none, right? Our community, this eco system. And it's not something you can buy. It's not something you can even intentionally build. You have to nurture, you have to create a platform that speaks to a large audience, and then you've just got to make sure that you're treating those developers and your partners really, really well, empowering them to really differentiate that experience at the last mile. And, you know, it's a flywheel effect. You end up with this incredible community that's anxious to contribute back into our code base and they have made, what you see at this conference is a result of that community. It's not anything that Magento could do. It's not anything that Adobe could do. It is just something that has to organically happen, and then you have to nurture the heck out of it. And that, that's really what we've done. >> And this is a community that you say has grown organically to several hundred thousand people who I feel like to say that they're influential to Magento, the technologies is actually an understatement with how much, how, again, I think influential's the wrong word. They're stronger than that. >> They're absolutely core to it, right? I mean they're an extension of our development methodology. You know, I like to think about, you know, I run engineering as part of my organization, and everybody in my group is customer-facing. Just like everybody in out community is customer-facing. And so we've tried to tear down the walls that separate our community members from our internal core engineers, because it creates this incredible diversity of perspective that you can't find anywhere else. I mean, no matter how much I invest in broadly diverse engineering teams across the globe, 300,000 engineers, they call themselves Magento developers, don't take a paycheck from Adobe but contribute back to our code base, influence our road map and really show us the way. It's an incredible phenomenon. >> In the last year since the announcement of the Adobe acquisition and the actual completion of that six, seven months ago, how has that community reacted, strengthened? What have been some of your surprising observations about the community's strength? >> It is surprising, and I'll tell you why. I think we came into the acquisition with a lot of apprehension, right. There was a concern that, you know, Adobe's too big. They're too corporate. They don't really love Open Source. All untrue, right? Adobe has incredible Open Source initiatives already inside, but you don't here a lot about it. And so, our community, I think, is it's a little bit concerned about, you know, does the level of investment go down? Does all of our ability to promote that product, does that, do we start to back off of that? And of course, we have not done that at all, and in fact, what we've seen is that our community loves the Adobe acquisition. They see opportunity just as clearly as we do. We have more than triple-digit growth in the number of community contributions coming in to us since the acquisition last year. It is a clear sign that the ecosystem is fully on board with where we're going. >> Right. Well clearly the Adobe Suite provides so much gunpowder to power the commerce that's been at the core of Magento from the beginning. I mean it almost begs the question, why didn't this happen a long, long time ago? >> I think there's something to be said about that, and, but you know what, it took Adobe a while. They picked the right platform. We're very confident of that, and, you know, their investment in community is actually paying off on the Adobe side, right. When you think about digital experience products, they (Adobe) are now more active than ever in open source projects. We've got, you know, folks from Adobe Experience Manager that are writing code and contributing to Magento, which is, it's absolutely terrific. And they're now talking about how do we get the ability to kind of create that contribution mechanism and at least create a platform concept where, you know, everybody plays. It's an equal playing field. You can serve us small, you can serve us large. And it just brings everybody together to solve these common, complex problems that are joint merchant's face. >> I don't know how many times you've been on stage in the last few days but, a couple. But one of the things you really, you know, (pounding) you didn't pound on the table but you basically pounded on the table, is that we are still, totally, 100% behind SMB. >> Jason: Absolutely. >> It's our core. We're not giving that up. >> We built this market together, right. This was what made Magento what it is. It's where we play the best. We know it better than anybody else in the industry, and we're not retreating. We're doubling down. We've got ground to take in the mid-market, and I can't wait to do it. >> Right, but what's wild is you're enabling the mid-market, to compete with the tools of the big guys. So, announcements are on the integration with Amazon, announcements are on integration with Google. So it's kind of an interesting place for small retailers, small merchants. They've got to compete in this world, so you're really giving 'em an aid, an opportunity to both play in what might be a big competitor as well as leverage that ecosystem and assets as well as doing it within their own brick and mortar or their own site . >> And that's a terrific point. I think one of the reasons we do that is we've seen consumer expectations rising through the roof, right. I mean, everything from, you know, fast shipping is now one-day. And it wasn't very long ago that fast shipping, if you could get it within a week, that was pretty darn quick. >> Jeff: Right. >> But now fast shipping is one day, and that's across the board. Consumers are expecting frictionless payment. They're expecting, you know, buy online, pick up in-store, omni-channel capabilities. Really all of these capabilities. And a consumer, a shopper, really doesn't care whether you're big or small. What they care about is the experience that the consume when they interact with your brand. And so, bringing the tools of the enterprise to the mid-market allows them to compete on a more level playing field, and that's really where you generate all those great innovation. And that's where you see, you know, these smaller merchants that are really able to, you know, drive into something that, you know, may not have been a core target for some of the larger enterprises, but they find an niche and are able to deliver, but they have the same personalization needs. They have the same logistics needs. All of that has not changed just because they're a smaller organization. And so it's really on us to be able to provide them the tooling and the access to the capabilities that let them compete with the larger merchants. >> No, 'cause you're right. As consumers, which we are every day, we don't care if they're a big or small company, or what technologies that, well, no we do care, to a degree, that we can start something from a mobile phone, have a great seamless experience >> Jason: Yep. >> that's not gonna cause me to churn, because I'm not going to be able to find what I want. I want it to be personalized. I want them to know enough about me in a non-creepy way, as you say. >> That's right. If it's good, it's magic. (Lisa laughing) If it's bad, it's creepy! >> Right, regardless of-- >> That's fair. >> That's for recommendation engines. >> Yeah, no, that's fair. >> And expect that they have what I want. But also what you're doing now is giving these SMBs, these smaller organizations, the ability to harness this sort of symbiotic data power between Adobe and Magento for advertising, analytics, marketing, commerce, to be able to have that wealth of knowledge to make that experience exactly what that consumer expects. >> Exactly right. I mean it's about bringing behavioral data and the transactional data together to really get a 360 degree view of individual customers. And guess what? There's too much raw data there for Excel to ever be able to tell you anything. You've got to rely on things like artificial intelligence and machine learning so that things like Adobe Sensei to really derive insight out of that mass set of data. But that's the way you create those personalized experiences. You have to employ those techniques to get there. >> Right, I just wanted to unpack the Sensei down-spin a little bit, 'cause I think that's really interesting. You know, AI's been a great buzzword. We see it in a lot of places. You know, our Google email now automatically figures out what we want to reply to our email. But it's the integration of AI in applications is where we're really starting to see it come to market early, and this is a great example of, you know, using the Adobe AI inside of Sensei, on specific parts of the application to deliver a better application, a better consumer experience. >> And we've got a great roadmap for rolling out Artificial Intelligence capabilities to Magento commerce. It's one of the largest value adds that we'll do over the next 12 months, is really bringing those capabilities around recommendations, around experience personalization and experience targeting. Around A/B testing. And then you think a little bit into the future, and suddenly you're looking at an AI that can give you pricing recommendations and campaign recommendations, and, you know, that is a, that's a world we cannot wait to really explore fully in the commerce world, because I think that those are the tools, you know Amazon applies a lot of dynamic pricing techniques right now. It's a really expensive process. I don't know a lot of small merchants that have access to the tools to do that. We're bringing those tools to small merchants, and that's gonna change the game fundamentally, I believe. >> And a way that they can do it, almost themselves, rather than having to have a team of resources, which a small business doesn't have. >> And that is the name of the game for small business. You can't require them to have a data science team. You can't require them to have an IT staff or a Web development team. You gotta give them everything they need so that they can focus on retail, what they know best, merchandising to their customers and, you know, managing their inventory, driving up the correct margins and then making sure that they're able to grow the lifetime value of their customers, right? That's the Holy Grail for retail is when you can actually optimize against lifetime value. Because it's the number one thing that all merchants are chasing. >> Yeah, 'cause you had the guy on the keynote yesterday. I'm not in the demographic. I'm trying to remember the name of the-- >> Oh, Troy, Troy Brown from Zumiez! >> From Zumiez, yeah. >> Yeah. >> I thought it was just really interesting, you know, kind of re-thinking retail, right? Retail is not dead, but it's different, and you have to be different. And really to see how they have kind of taken their concept I thought it was pretty interesting, especially around the fact that he has no more fulfillment centers, he said. But basically, they're fulfilling from the store. They want to engage you in the store. It's a convenient thing. Especially now we see Amazon packages are all gettin' stolen off of doorsteps. But, you know, enabling them to be creative around their customer engagement, not necessarily worry about how to run a bunch of A/B tests. They let you do that complicated stuff. >> Let us take on all of the complexity, and then they can actually benefit from the insights derived from that. And what Zumiez have done, it's a phenomenal story, right. I mean, you're going away from this centralized warehouse concept, to really turning all of their stores into distribution centers, right? 704 or so, brick and mortar-strong where, you know, they now have merchandise close to their consumers. They have, you know, the ability to do showcasing, buy online, pick-up in store, all of the omni-channel techniques that are grabbing so much traction right now. And Zumiez has really capitalized. >> Jeff: Right. >> They've done a terrific job, and it's great seeing it come from these really innovative retailers, right? I mean, that show last night with Zumiez was absolutely, you know, fantastic. Their culture is super unique, highly energetic, but they're driving technology forward in a way that you might not expect from a skateboard apparel shop. >> Right, well, they're making Champion cool again. It came out of the Champion, and it was in the demo. I'm like, I didn't know Champion was a cool brand. >> Apparently, it is cool now. >> Jeff: It's cool now. >> You and I are both out of that demographic, (Jeff laughing) but it is a very good story. >> One of the things that we're hearing and seeing is that we talked about personalization and that this expectation, that as consumers, we bring to everything we buy, whatever it happens to be, but also, this sort of, looking at Amazon as an example, of going to brick and mortar from purely online, the acquisition of Whole Foods, people still wanting to have that human interaction. We talk about it all the time when we talk about AI, is that pretty much the common thread is yes, AI, and maybe yes, online to a degree, and then there's still that need and that demand for that personal face-to-face or maybe voice-to-voice interaction. >> Yeah, well, you know, its really for me, it's about taking that brand, you know, experience and making sure that it's resonating across all of your digital properties as well as all of the physical properties, right. It is about really leveraging. My brand experience is consistent across every place that I come encounter my customers, and I'm ready to transact anytime my customers are ready to transact. And when, you know, talking about Amazon. we've announced some really cool stuff this Ad Imagine on Amazon, a partnership. where Amazon sellers can now have a branded storefront on Magento. This is allowing folks that have done a terrific job selling in the market place, where you don't have a lot of opportunity for experience differentiation on the amazon.com site. >> Lisa: Right. >> And it's a terrific marketplace. More than 50% of product searches are starting on Amazon now. So it's a reality that retailers need to find a way to come to grips with. >> Jeff: Right. >> And what I'm really excited about is that those merchants that are doing really well on Amazon now have a new channel where they can create these branded experiences and really start differentiating themselves from their competitors. It's going to be a terrific story. It's Branded Storefronts for Amazon Sellers is the name of the offering. And its going to change the game for folks that have been exclusively Amazon, maybe thinking its too hard to go get an online presence that actually represents my brand. Now its a piece of cake. They've got a clean path to get there, and the capabilities go both ways, right? We also announced Amazon sales channel for Magento commerce that allows you as a branded merchant, to go and participate on the Amazon Marketplace and have full control over your inventory, your orders and all of your catalog. >> It's so funny, you know, we talk about experience but so much of retail execution is actually inventory execution, right? >> [Jason} That's Right. >> It's inventory management. That's where all your money sits. You can get it real upside down really quickly if you're not managing your inventory. And if you don't have the right amount of inventory, especially as you say with same-day delivery now being an expected behavior. And so to add the sophisticated tools on the back and to manage that inventory across that broad, kind of distribution plane, if you will, with all these different points of engagement is so critical to these guys to have any type of chance of success. >> Yeah, it is. It's absolutely critical, and we've also got a Magento order management product that specializes in sort of global inventory control. We've made terrific investments there to bring new capabilities to make sure that those omni-channel aspirations are not something that a merchant has to go invest a whole lot of money and change in their systems. I think it is interesting to think about when you talk about how B2C is really bleeding into B2B, right. As supply chain management, you know, 70% of our B2C merchants, self-described, actually engaged in B2B workflows, and almost all of our B2B-only merchants are really looking at how do I go B2B to C? >> Jess: Right. >> So there's this really great platform play happening, and the fact that Magento commerce and Adobe commerce Cloud can serve us B2B and B2C and all the hybrids in-between really puts us in a differentiated position and helps merchants not have to go invest in multiple platform, multiple maintainability and then find some way to reconcile the inventory between the two. >> Right, and we had a quote earlier today. I can't remember who said it, but I thought it was great where, you know, no longer is the actual transaction the destination. Right, but now you're bringing the transaction to, you know, kind of the journey. It's a very different way to think about a traditional funnel. It isn't the traditional funnel that you work your way down to the end. Now you're inserting commerce opportunities, >> Jason: Yep. >> engagement opportunities all along kind of this content flow. >> We kind of teased ourselves, right, We kinda lied to ourselves and said that, you know, this is a linear journey. And we've all bought into it, right. You know all the steps, right. It's a discovery, awareness, I mean all the way to post-purchase. Its not linear. People move in and out of each of those sections, and so being able to transact where the customer is ready to transact is critically important >> Jeff: Right. >> and then understanding that the post-sale service is the key to lifetime value. That's the other major learning that we're trying to take away from this. And it's why it's important to be at every point your customer is. >> Yeah, it's interesting, 'cause especially with these things, because you don't sit down to work on your phone like we sat down to work at these things. >> Jason: That's right. >> And so your attention, >> Jason: works coming to you. >> it's coming to you, and its coming in little bits. Oh, and by the way, there's a whole bunch of notifications coming on that can pull you away. >> Jason: Yeah. >> So they're very different challenges in terms of actual engagement when this is the primary vehicle. >> And increasingly, it is the primary vehicle, right? >> Jess: Absolutely. >> More than 50% of traffic to retail, e-commerce site is generated from a mobile phone, and there are emerging markets where that is the only internet-connected device, and so it's the standard. You absolutely have to take mobile very seriously. There's a great set of technologies coming online to help us get there. It's called Progressive Web Application. It's going to change the game on how mobile is treated as a device, and in fact, it gets rid of the need for discrete native applications. So instead of having an IOS app, an Android app, a desktop storefront, a mobile storefront and maybe a tablet storefront, plus your online brick and mortar, now you can actually say, my digital properties are serviced by one set of technology. And that way, when I make a change to one, it shows up in everything. I don't have all these difference code bases to maintain. It's a total cost of ownership, and really, a time-to-market play >> Lisa: I was gonna say, >> across the board. >> faster time-to market for sure. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> With far less resources. >> Well, and bringing it so that you really have to invest in allowing your merchandisers to merchandise on your digital properties, right? If there is an engineer sitting between your merchandiser and the customer, that time lag and even just trying to get it done, there's so much frustration there. So creating these self-service tools that really allow non-technical merchandisers to go in, make adjustments to how they're selling products across all those channels very, very easily and in one place, that's gonna return a ton of value to our merchants. So its another thing that we're super excited about. >> No, you deliver that consistent experience that the consumer is expecting, and then, we were talking to PayPal earlier, start to help companies close that revenue gap of getting them from mobile to, you know, wanting to transact and making that whole process seamless. >> There's a nine billion dollar opportunity in closing the mobile gap. When you think about abandoned cards and folks that begin the checkout process for whatever reason, likely they get frustrated and don't want to type in their credit card number or don't want to type in their address, and then they move to another device or another store that's doing checkout in a more frictionless way, the nine billion dollar opportunity if you close that. >> Wow, that's huge! >> So its incredibly important. >> It is incredibly important. Well Jason, we wish we had more time, but we thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and talking with Jeff and Me. Such an exciting time. Sounds like developers are feeling embraced. The community is happy. Customers are reacting well. So we can't wait to hear whats next, next year. >> This is the best place to be in the world in commerce. Thank you guys so much for having me on. It's always a pleasure, and I've enjoyed it a lot. >> Oh, our pleasure as well, Jason. >> Alright, thank you, guys. Thanks, Jason. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin at Imagine 2019 at the Wynn, Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back here on theCUBE, of course, the flagship broadcast for SilconANGLE, along with Justin Warren, I am John Walls, and we are live at re:Invent, AWS' annual shin-dig here in Las Vegas, and certainly with great success, they have staged this year's event. We'll have more on that a little bit later on, right now we're joined by Bill Mann, who's the Chief Product Officer at Centrify, the latest newcomer to the AWS marketplace. >> Yes. >> John: Bill good to see you, thanks for the time today. >> Thanks for the time as well. >> Big week for you, right? >> Yup >> Joining the marketplace, tell us about the driver of that decision, and then what you're bringing, literally, to the marketplace? >> Sure, sure. Well, we're bringing our products to the marketplace. We're very excited about getting our products on the marketplace, and what was really the driver for us was, we wanted to really be part of the Amazon ecosystem, and we wanted to make, reduce the friction of selling to enterprise and mid-market customers, and this was the way to get to those customers. We realized really early on that, customers are already buying all the other services from Amazon already. They're buying their instances. They're buying their storage, and so forth. So, getting our products on the marketplace was just an important aspect of reaching those customers and removing the friction, and so forth. Also, with the move to the cloud, our customers were asking for how to secure servers in the cloud, and secure access to applications in the cloud, and then things just kind of lead, one thing leads to another, where you say, okay, let's put everything in one place as well. I kind of used the analogy of we buy our diapers from Amazon, now, and everything else, so, but the IT shop is working the same way. They don't want to deal with multiple vendors, and if you can reduce that friction, at least, my theory is, reducing that friction will mean, we can sell more product to the customer. >> That's an interesting image, diapers from... (laughter) >> It's the everything store. >> I didn't give a chance to talk about Centrify, a little bit. Security firm with the tag "The breach stops here", so, just tell for those at home who might not be familiar with Centrify, a little bit more about your specific offers. >> Sure, well, let's start with the breech stops here, the reason we have our tagline, "the breech stops here" is, it really is a definition of what's happening in the marketplace. If you look at most of the breaches out there, there's 80% of most breaches are to do with compromised credentials, our passwords, and that is really an area that we focus on. We are really trying to solve the problem, how users have access to the applications, like Sales Force, or any home grown applications, or how IT users have access to their servers, like a server on AWS, and using a password, and having too much privileges, is really the wrong way to do things, so we are solving that problem, and that's why we kinda start off with that line of the breach stops here, because we fundamentally believe that if you implement security based upon identity you're gonna be able to reduce your risk. >> Security is such a hot market right at the moment. We're hearing constantly, we were talking earlier on theCUBE, where we're talking IOT, and it immediately went to security. It was being really, really top of mind for people, so the things that you're doing with Centrify, there's kind of two prongs to it, if I understand it. So, one is identity management. So, knowing who people are. So that credentials management. And the other one's to do with the access, is that right? We were talking before we went to air that, about the Beyond Corp concept, where instead of having this, sort of inside protected crunchy layer, and then everything outside is bad, now it's just becoming everything everywhere should not be trusted, unless you are cleared by something like Centrify. >> So, yes, so, for those of you who are familiar with the Beyond Corp model, the model really is about zero trust. So, if you think of these two things here in our user, let's say a server instance, the thing in between you can't trust, and in the past we've been trusting the firewall to stop the bad guys from coming into our network. So really the concept is around, assume the bad actors are everywhere, and now that you've assumed that, let's now focus on what you can do to actually gain security. So the concepts are, let's do identity assurance. Let's make sure this is really Bill. Let's do, let's make sure Bill's coming from a trusted device, yeah, like a known mobile phone that hasn't been jailbroken, has the right configuration policies, et cetera. Then, let's do access control, or what we call, lease privilege, to the asset that they're trying to have access to. So, is Bill coming from this show, from his phone, allowed to access SalesForce.com? Or is Bill coming from this phone able login to a Unix instance on AWS, now? And what can he do on that instance? Can he go to root, and restart the Oracle database, or can he just run some lower level privilege commands? So, that's the scope of what we're doing. In fact, Beyond Corp is a great descriptor of what we do, if a company wants to implement Beyond Corp, that security paradigm, which I think a lot of modern companies are thinking that way, you can use the services that we provide on the Amazon Marketplace to implement that. We have a service called Application Service, which is all about securing your applications. We have a service called Endpoints Service, which is securing the endpoints, like the mobile phones and so forth, and we have a service called Infrastructure Service, which is securing instances in the cloud. Access to those instances, and those, all those services can be used together, as well, because, as you know I'm an IT user. One day, I'm using Outlook to read my email, and in the next second I'm logging onto a Unix instance. So, for me, it's bringing all these components together, and that's providing throughout by the marketplace. >> Yeah, and really, providing that security in context, as you mentioned. It could be the same person. Like, I'm at work, and I'm doing some things, and I've got access to all these great, all of this information inside the company, but when I go home, should I still have access to that? Probably not. So, if I'm sitting home and I'm using my device, as many of us do, I have children, and they sometimes put games on your phone, or load stuff on your computer. So, if I've got my work computer at home with me, and I suddenly start deciding, hmm I think I'll login and download all of the sales information, that shouldn't happen. >> That's absolutely right. So, the context is that core part of it, and that's what endpoint services does for us. So going back to an Amazon use case, if I'm at home, and I'm logging on to my Amazon console, yeah? From my home machine, let's say, and I'm kicking off an instance, should I be able to do that? I'm not using, maybe an endpoint that is authorized, but I could authorize an endpoint and say, this is a known endpoint, like a lot of IT workers do. And you could also do things like, I'm in Vegas now, and I'm using my Mac, and I'm trying to go to the Amazon console, should I be able to, because that's outside of my normal behavior, in which case, we would up-level your multi-factor authentication, it would re-prompt me to re-authenticate. So, all of that is built into our environment. So, our services are not just for Amazon. It's for on-premises, and for cloud apps, cause it's the whole gamut of what an enterprise has. As companies are moving, or migrating from one premises to the cloud, we can protect the applications, and servers on premises, as well as servers in cloud, and applications on premises, as well as SAAS apps, like Sales Force, or Concur, et cetera, et cetera. So, it's that gamut of giving a user access to applications and infrastructure that we're doing with this Beyond Corp model in mind. Which is, I think the cool, and the interesting thing about what we're doing, because we are connecting these components together, and that's the only way we're going to raise security, cause if you go back to the stat I gave you earlier about the 80%, that is the problem, right? A firewall will not protect you from these breaches, and we could have an argument about it, but if it was, then we wouldn't see the breaches, right? That's kind of the high-level. >> John: Yeah >> There's only so much that you as, like Amazon can do so much about securing their environment, but ultimately you as the customer need to spend a bunch of time, and -- >> Just like they did, share responsibility, right? >> Absolutely right. I mean, Amazon does an awesome job in defining the shared responsibility model, and we are relying on them to do their part of the responsibility, and we're proving the technology for the customers to worry about their aspect, right? So, Amazon does not worry about Bill coming from this device, having access to an instance, we're worrying about those things. So, absolutely, we're part of the shared responsibility model for Amazon. >> We're not going to worry about Bill coming in either. I think you're okay. I think it'll be alright. How do you guys, in the big picture, put on your bad guy hat? How do you look for, if you offer a product, this is our latest security offering, now let's go look for holes? Now let's, I mean, you're trying to beat it up all the time, right? You're always, you're looking for vulnerabilities? So, how do you switch gears like that, and go to the other side of the fence to think about what the next problem is going to be, or what the next vulnerability is going to be? >> Well, you know, I think we, like most other security, modern security companies, we are thinking, one side of our brain is thinking like the bad guys all the time. We have to, and, and honestly, they are always multiple steps ahead of us, and one of the things I like to really make sure customers understand is, some customers get really wound up about zero risk, right? They want it to be perfect before they implement a solution, and really the reality is, most companies don't even have multi-factor authentication for implemented for all of their employees, and if companies just implemented multi-factor authentication for all their users, for all their access, you would have a significant reduction in risk. So, the types of security we're focused on, is not about reducing risk to zero, or finding every single vulnerability out there. It's really trying to attack the problem that hasn't been attacked already. Let me give you another analogy. As we all know patching is a basic security model that we all need to know. Yeah, but how many vulnerabilities have there been in the news where patching was not done? We're like patching. You know, understanding the user is authenticating an environment without a password, and instead using multi-factor authentication, is the best precaution against the bad guys. It won't limitate risk, right, but its going to drastically reduce it. Now, as part of the services we're offering on Amazon, we have multi-factor authentication as a service, right? By definition, as it's a service means it can be implemented extremely fast for enterprise. It's a SAAS Service, right? It's pay by use, right? By definition. So, gone are the days where the technology was the reason you couldn't implement these sets of capabilities, cause they're easy to procure, they're in the cloud, they're mobile friendly, they're modern, et cetera, et cetera. So that's how we really deal with the aspect of the bad guys, right? They're going to be there all the time, but honestly speaking companies have spent so much time, and energy, and dollars on the wrong security products, right? Or focusing on the wrong stuff, and it was fine when you had a legacy, closed environment with no cloud, and no SAAS, but that's not the environment anybody lives in, especially a show like this. Everybody's using the cloud, it's like, the obvious thing, right? So, it should be obvious that these kind of controls need to be implemented. >> I agree. Just do the simple things. If you can do one or two simple things, multi-factor, absolutely. Just do these basic things. You will eliminate 80% of your risk. Do that first, then worry about the esoteric problems that are going to cost millions and millions of dollars to solve, just, you know, brush your teeth. Go for a walk. (John laughing) >> We define a maturity model of going towards Beyond Corp's slash zero trust, and the first thing on that maturity chart is identity assurance, i.e. multifactor authentication, and that's the first thing that organizations need to implement, and the issue is companies haven't implemented these products in the past, because they've been too expensive on-premise, hard to implement, not mobile friendly. So we're hoping once we're on Amazon's marketplace with the reach we've got with Amazon, we're going to see a lot of customers adopting those. So, it's good for us as a business, but ultimately it's good for enterprises. They're going to get safer, and our data is gonna be safeguarded, and so forth, which is the primary responsibility. >> I'm not sure. I think Justin just told you to take some time off. (laughing) I'm not sure. Bill, thanks for being with us. >> [Bill} Thank you very much. >> Thanks for the time, and congratulations on joining the marketplace, and we wish you continued success at Centrify. >> Cheers. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Bill Mann, Chief Product Officer at Centrify. Back with more here, Live at AWS. We're at re:Invent. Live at Las Vegas. Back with more on theCUBE, just in a bit. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering the VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its Ecosystem Partners. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We're live in Las Vegas. theCUBE special coverage of VMworld 2017, our eighth year. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE with my co-host, Dave Vellante is also co-host. Our next two guests is Jaspreet Singh, CEO, Founder of Druva and Matt Morgan and CMO of Druva. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> Glad to be here. >> So Pat Gelsinger basically laid it out on the keynote, essentially the waves, and one of them, you're riding hard, you're a startup. Take a minute to talk about why you guys are excited about this wave, because I think data protection, decentralized, fully cloud world. Cloud, IoT, and edge. It's creating a huge data environment. Jaspreet, take a minute to explain what you guys are doing. >> Absolutely, so if you look at the big wave, right? The data, as said, is getting completely decentralized. We have IoT, edge... the new cloud, and the data center is getting disrupted with time. And the more data gets decentralized or defragmented, the more centralized the data management has to be. Whether on the edge, in the cloud, and the whole notion of cloud, if you think about it is actually an interesting phenomenon where Amazon is applying retail economy to traditional IT. If you combine them together, you sort of want to manage the data as a service wherever it goes. Be it the edge, be it the core. You want the simplest ability to sort of protect it, to govern it, and to add intelligence to it over time as it gathers more and more information. So Druva provides a platform, end to end, to sort of make data all managed properly from a single console. >> Pat Gelsinger was up on the stage in his keynote, Andy Jassy came out. Big news, Amazon relationships. Got some fruit bearing already. And they had to do that because vCloud Air was kind of an interesting point. But he brings up the point about the cloud as disruption and that the conventional wisdom of the old is no longer the most relevant thing right now and a lot of customers are paying attention to that so I got to ask you as a founder and CEO on the right wave, in our opinion, and Wikibon's opinion. What should customers look for for success, 'cause we're early on this new vector. What's different? What should they be thinking about as they look at the cloud, look at the distributed and decentralized edge. What are the some of the things that's different? >> I think you would think about customers and, Matt, please, add to it. For customers, this is not just a technology stack, right? It's not a software-defined data center all over again. This is more of a... trying to see how they can consume something at a predictable and certain price wherever they go, right? That's the whole genesis of cloud, it's a complete business model shift. And so when they look at data and how they holistically manage data they understand data is likely to outlive most systems by 3X. And now when they have this notion of cloud, how can they be on the journey to sort of to consume and deliver the value of data as a service in this whole notion of public cloud. And that's sort of the delivered promise. >> So Matt, I wonder if you could talk about the brand continuum, that brand promise. The ascendancy of the sort of modern backup software in the first part of this millennium was coincident with virtualization and consolidating servers and that we sort of played that out. And now customers are saying we have to rethink the way we protect data because of cloud. So I wonder if you could address that and talk about the brand promise of Druva in that context. >> Excellent. Yes. We did a survey, 450 VMware customers and it basically underscores the VMware strategy. There are going to be three tenets to the modern data architecture moving forward. There's going to be physical servers, there's going to be virtualized infrastructure, and there's going to be VMware Cloud on AWS, or its derivatives. When you move further from left to right, moving from physical to virtual, virtual to cloud. What ends up happening is the approach to data protection of the past fails to scale and frankly is no longer compatible. You can't float an appliance in a cloud. You can't possibly put in your own co-located infrastructure within a cloud store to attempt to protect that data. So a lot of people just go without protection at all. What we found in our survey is that three out of four people surveyed really want an as-a-service solution because they're able to basically protect cloud to cloud. They're able to come in and say, "OK, if my data is going to be sitting there, my infrastructure is going to be sitting there, I want to be able to wrap that infrastructure with an as-a-service solution that will protect it. The real value though isn't just protecting in the cloud, it's the as-a-service solution is not limited by the constraints of the past. It can actually be extended backwards so you could take your virtual infrastructure and protect it with an as-aservice solution. You can take your physical infrastructure and protect it as a solution. So as a result, we see this as a sea change to this new way of protecting data. >> So Jaspreet, you were saying that you've got to have this centralized data management philosophy in order to succeed in this world that Matthew just described. Why is that? Is that because you need a single point of control in case something goes wrong and it's a recovery thing? Or is it more of a business model sort of an as-a-service business model requirement? I wonder if you could address that? >> So the traditional IT boundary is sort of shattering in the cloud world, right? If you're going to have... There's a last incident of sorts, right? If one incident happens in a company then many parties are looking at what happened there. Is it a breach, is it a loss, it is a governance issue? So data has multiple faces now. Data also touches multiple parties, be it production, be it the DevOps. You've got to have a holistic view of looking at the data versus traditional approach of I'm going to put a backup architecture, or DR architecture, or e-discovery architecture all in silos. And cloud sort of also gives an opportunity for people to not hug their hardware and say this is mine, go get yours. They can sort of break boundaries and say let's work together on this data set where I can manage the prediction part of it and someone else can pay their dues to manage the governance part of it. So decentralization, the more... I'm sorry. (coughs) The more decentralization of data is promoting a holistic view of management of data purely built from the cloud. >> Jaspreet, I wanted to ask you. You had a pretty busy week. We covered this on SiliconANGLE, and so I kind of want to ask it again since we're here at VMworld. $80 million in funding. Congratulations, big news. And the Druva Cloud Platform on AWS. Congratulations. Can you share more color to that? That's a lot of cash, 80 million. >> It's a good amount of money. It's no replacement for creativity, but it's a good fuel to have in the company. Yes, it's fortunate to have a great lead, lower capital with all of our existing investors: Sequoia and Nexus, Tenaya including EMC Ventures was a (mumbles) to be in this round. Secondary storage overall is getting disrupted. The legacy isn't material anymore given the big cloud wave, as I said. So the new wave of providers have to be in the cloud and hence, Druva. We've been building historically a very strong foundation of cloud native solution without a hardware approach. With no hardware approach, all in the cloud. In the past, we've taken a legacy architecture of a backup, DR, e-discovery into multiple products in Druva Phoenix, to take care of edge data or data center data and now we're taking a big step forward and say we're going to combine our products into a single platform. Think of it as Amazon services for data prediction. The customer logs in and can search for their workload, they want a backup VM survey, they want to search today, and then deliver what they want to the IT right from a single point of console. That's the power of Druva Cloud Platform. >> Eight years ago, we interviewed Dheeraj Pandey for the first time. It was our first time doing theCUBE 2010, and at that time, no one's ever heard of Nutanix. New-tan-nix, New-tAh-nix. A little accent from New Jersey, Massachusetts. I always get it wrong. >> I say New-tan-nix. >> Dheeraj was kind of crazy. He was viewed in Silicon Valley as kind of a wild card. No one got his model at that time. Dave, and David Florey of Wikibon, were like "This is amazing," they saw it right away. And I'm like, "This is really awesome." You guys are kind of out of that same track and invest along the same lines for secondary storage. So I've got to ask you, when you're doing your fundraising, you must've had some pretty interesting experiences. Can you share some of the, without naming names, the good, and kind of weird conversations you had around, cause you got to understand the trends to get your business. >> Absolutely. I think storage is the new F word, right? There's a lot of people who don't dislike storage for what happened in the public market recently. So you go to explain to them there's a thesis around making money on public cloud using public cloud as storage tiers, so we've had various interesting conversations there. We were lucky to have Riverwod, who got the idea, who are of the same conviction as the founder to put money behind where the market is going, but still a lot of venture capitalists don't like the venture part of it. They want a predictable story, they want easy money, and they want big valuations. But the venture in the venture, VC capital.. >> John: Wait a minute. The idea of venturing... >> Jaspreet: That's right. >> To go take a chance or a bet. >> Jaspreet: That's right. >> That's called venture capital. >> Jaspreet: Absolutely. >> Not hedge fund or, you know, money market. >> Jaspreet: Absolutely. >> You basically got some pretty weird, kind of like, "Huh" questions. What was the craziest question you got? That was so off-base. >> Crazy questions like, "Where's the box? (Interviewers laugh) "Wait a minute. Where's the storage box?" >> John: "Where do I put it?" >> We had one question where someone asked, "So what's your..." You know, not option, it was... What the word? What's your, the... >> "Engagement?" >> "Engagement on your software?" And we were like, this is your... backup software, or DR software. It's going to perform virtually dutiable. But you don't engage with the software as you would with a salesforce.com. You got to look for... one party or two parties of a strong conviction and sort of go with them. >> John: Great story. Thanks for sharing. >> You mentioned three things: protect, govern, and add intelligence. And that "add intelligence" pieces You don't usually associate that with, certainly not backup, but data protection. So in this world of digital business, we think of digital business is all about how you leverage data assets. And when you think of adding intelligence, that's not something we typically think of in a data protection company. How is Druva different in that regard and how can you help organizations leverage their data assets? >> Yeah. We see this as a customer journey, OK? Data protection is the gateway drug to leveraging an as-a-service model, right? Because it's really obvious. I can protect my data, I can restore it, I can do disaster recovery. Once you get that data into a centralized store, there's incredible things you can do. From the fact that it's centralized. Unlike previous approaches that were dozens or hundreds of silos that you never could report across, Druva gives you that centralization effect. So the first logical step to move up the customer journey is to embrace governance where you can start having a perspective. Making sure that you're legally complying with regulations. Making sure that you're governing for legal requirements within the company. But when you move pass that, you start to actually start to manage for patterns. And that's where intelligence comes in. When you start thinking of data, the associated metadata that surrounds that data, is data within itself. And if you wrap intelligence around that, you could start to get predictive around areas that could affect risk for your organization or even open up opportunity. So a good risk example is ransomware. Through intelligence, you can actually see when data that is distributed starts being encrypted early so you're able to identify and do what we call the anomaly detection. So that's kind of the journey, if you will. You go protection to governance, governance to intelligence. >> So it is kind of the holy grail, right? I mean. >> Jaspreet: Absolutely. >> Companies historically, in your business, haven't been able to achieve-- I mean, EMC tried, they bought Documentum to try to achieve that vision. And, I mean, I guess it failed, but they sold it for a boatload of money. So they're all good. Nobody's crying for EMC, but what's your perspective on this, Jaspreet? >> I think these are mostly elastic workload, highly elastic workload. You want a certain data, you want it right now, and you want it to be a short-lived search. You want AI, DPI, which requires a lot of data, but the DPI machine learning has to have a holistic amount of data for a very short amount of time, can burst compute, get the problem solved and move on. So historically, for lack of architecture, lack of abundant amount of hardware, and also the IT boundaries of not supporting each of the decision was the big limiting factor. Now, with cloud we've delivered a full tech search but to a price point that companies can afford for an investigative search. Searches weren't affordable in the past. They can do searching of parable data in an instant, and go out, right? And likewise, in machine learning. Machine learning is a lot easier proposition in cloud and the to use it pretty easier. So you apply deep learning, you understand parlance to what Matt said, you understand ransomware before most customers can see it, and then alert them, and then sort of move on, right? So, the seeking of IT boundaries and the power of current intelligence is truly helping us build this together. >> One last marketing question, if I may. Or a marketing challenge. You got a choice. You can go after the legacy stovepipe guys, which is relatively straightforward but there is an emerging set of modern data protection folks. How do you pick those two? Do you do both, and how do you differentiate from the latter in particular? >> Well, I'm really grateful that some large companies have gone forward to advocate public cloud. OK, Amazon and Microsoft with Azure, and with even Google with Google Cloud Platform. They have done a phenomenal job selling a disruption and a more effective way to do business when leveraging the public cloud. When you move to that, the data protection conversation must change. There is no option to do things they way you used to do it. It will be called the chain of pain. So from a marketing point of view, I can attach to all of the dynamics of what data protection means in this hybrid reality where some of your stuff will be in the public cloud, some of your stuff will be below the horizon on premises. I also have the opportunity to talk about the centralization of data. So unlike any appliance vendor that's on the market today or in any traditional approach, the idea of stovepiping your data limits you. It limits you both in the immediate term and it limits you over the long term. By centralizing that information together and delivering it as a service to wrap more of your infrastructure with our protection technology. You're going to be able to gain a lot of value. So I need to focus specifically on that centralization, the move to public cloud, and then there's a cost efficiencies conversation that I can add on top of all of that, which is about taking half your costs out. >> Guys, you had the launch of the Druva Cloud Platform. It's your big news here on AWS with the VMware. Since it's VMworld, which is VMware's Ecosystem show, what should they know about your cloud platform? The VMware customers. The people who are running ops and data centers, and obviously the data protection. We talked about what you just said, which is, there's no walls in the cloud. So it's a completely different dynamic. Completely disrupting data protection with cloud. Completely different ballgame, we get that. But VMware customers, what do they do? How do they engage with you guys? Why should they use you and what should they know? >> Absolutely, as Matt said, there are about 90% of customers we surveyed said that looking at AWS for hosting their VMs in that new model and this new shift towards public cloud Druva only adds a service solution they can consume from Amazon Marketplace, from VMware Cross Cloud Services platform, is what they're calling it. Our Druva, our partner channel, right? It's a no-hardware, simple as-a-service solution delivered natively on AWS to consume on-prem and cloud directly onto a >> So you're an ecosystem partner of VMware's. >> Absolutely. >> On that chart that Gelsinger is going to put up. Under data protection, you will have your logo there. In the future. >> In the near future, yes. There were a certain... Yes, absolutely, yes. In the near future, we definitely hope to see our logo... >> John: Well VMware is still owned by Dell Technologies, AKA Dell EMC, hence the top billing. >> Jaspreet: That's true. >> VM was in there. And they've had a little bit of a... >> Jaspreet: It's true. (laughs) >> Early on requirements of... >> John: You got screwed. Look, I'll say it. You should be in there. But you're certified, it's not like it's in development. It's shipping. >> The early on requirements by VM is pretty simple that you have to use native cloud technology, not the classic storage, and you have to have a clean path to talk across AWS. And we qualified very well. So we're in development right now and to be announced pretty soon. >> John: Alright, so bottom line. Can I buy it and use it today? >> Yes, you can buy it and use it today. >> I'm a VMware customer. >> Absolutely yes. >> Guys, thanks so much. Druva, a hot startup. $80 million of funding on top of a bunch of cash you had. How much did you raise total? >> 200. About $200 million. >> John: $200 million. Plenty of cash in the work chest. Check it out, data protection in the cloud, one of the areas being disrupted by this new wave that Pat Gelsinger is going to lay out here at VMworld 2017. We've got more live CUBE coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco, it's the Cube, covering Informatica World 2017. Brought to you by Informatica. (techno music) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Live here in San Francisco, this is the Cube's exclusive coverage of Informatica World 2017, our third year covering Informatica, and more to come. I'm John Furrier with Silicon Angle, the Cube. My co-host, Peter Burris, Head of Research for Silicon Angle Media, as well as General Manager of Wikibon.com, check out the great research at Wikibon. Some great stuff there on IOT, cloud ping data, great stuff. Of course, go to SiliconAngle.com for all the coverage YouTube.com/SiliconAngle for all the Cube videos. Our next guest is Bruce Chizen, board member of a lot of private companies, also Special Advisor at Informatica. You're on the board of Informatica, no? >> Executive Chair. >> John: Executive Chair of Informatica. Not only as Special Advisor, Executive Chair. Welcome back, good to see you. >> Great to be here. >> You were on last year, great to have you back. What a popular video. Jerry Held was on yesterday. Let's get some Board insights, so first question, when are you going public? (laughing) >> Good one. >> John: Warmed you up, and then, no. I mean the performance is doing well. Give us a quick update. >> Company's doing well. Q4 was a good quarter, Q1 was a good quarter. I think we will be positioned to do something late 2018, early 2019. A lot depends on how the company continues to do. A lot depends on the market. The private equity investors are in no hurry. >> John: Yeah. >> But it's always nice to have that option. >> So it's one of the things we, yeah, great option. Doing well. We heard that also from some of the management. We got O'Neil coming on, we'll press him on some of the performance side, but always had good products out, we talked about it last year. But the industry's going through a massive transformation. You've seen many waves over the years. The waves are hitting. What's your perspective right now? I mean, it's a pretty big wave. You got to get the surfboard out there, there's a set coming in. What's the big wave right now? >> So, data is driving every transformation within every organization. Any company that is not using and taking advantage of data will be left behind. You look at how companies like Amazon and Google and now a lot of our customers like Schwab and Tesla and others, the way they're using data, that will allow them to continue to either be successful in the case of a Schwab, or be a disruptor, like somebody like Tesla. Fortunately for us at Informatica, we are helping to drive that digital transformation. >> One of the things that I always observe, younger than you are, I've only seen a few waves in my day, but in the waves that were the most impactful in terms of creating wealth, and opportunity, and innovation, has had a cool and relevant factor. Meaning, if you go back to the PC days, it was cool and relevant. If you go back to mini computer, cool and relevant. And it goes on and on and on. And certainly internet, cool and relevant. But now, the, you mention Tesla. I'm testing driving one on Friday. My kids are like "Don't buy the Audi, buy the Tesla." This is my kids. So it's a cooler, it's a spaceship, it's cooler than the other cars. >> Bruce: Or an iPhone on wheels. >> Peter: (laughs) Exactly. A computer on wheels. >> So cool and relevant, talk about what is the cool and relevant thing right now. You talk about user experience, that's one. Data's changing it. So how is data being the cool and relevant trend? Point to some things that... >> If you look at what's happening from the chip on up, everything, everything will be intelligent. And I hate to use the term "internet of things," but the reality is everything will have intelligence. And that intelligent information will be able to be taken advantage of because of the scale of the cloud. Which means that any company will be able to take information, data, analyze it on the cloud, and then use it to do something with. And it's happening now. Fortunately, Informatica sits right in the middle of that, because they're the ones who could rationalize that data on behalf of their customers. 'Cause there's going to be a lot of it and somebody needs to govern it, secure it, homogenize it. >> John: You consider them an enabling platform? >> Absolutely, absolutely. I was joking, we just went through a rebranding exercise. And it's kind of cute, new logo, and it's kind of bold and sleek and it shows we'll have a leader, but it's a logo. But there's really around the messaging, we are finally getting across that we are the ones unleashing the power of data. That's what Informatica does. We'd just never really told anybody about it. We're very product focused, not really helping customers understand how uniquely positioned the company was. >> And it's also, you guys have done some things. Let's just go back and look at going private. Brought a new management team, have product chops again, we've talked about that in previous years. Last year in particular. So, okay, you have the wind at your back. Now you got Sally as a CMO, now you got to start being a humble braggart about the cool stuff you're doing. So which is marketing, basically. >> That's correct. >> John: But now, it's digital. >> Yeah. >> So, what's the Board conversation like, you say "Go, go build the brand!" >> So first of all, being private is great. (laughing) Because we get to do things you couldn't do as a public company. We're, a lot of our customers what to buy the products and solutions via subscription, that has huge impact to the P&L, especially in the short term. Cash flow's fine. So the PE guys are going okay, it's great, because we'll come out of this as a better company, and our customers like it because that's the way they want to buy products. So, that helps a lot. The conversation at the Board level has been, "Wow, we're number one in every category in which "we participate in. "Everything from big data to cloud integration "to traditional on-premise, to real-time streaming, "and, and, and data security." >> You're only one of three vendors in the Google general availabilities banner which went out yesterday. We covered that on Silicon Angle. >> We're number one there, we had AWS speak at our conference, we had Azure speak at our conference. All of the cloud guys love Informatica because we are the ones who are uniquely positioned to deal with all this data on behalf of their customers. As a private company, we're able to take advantage of that, spend some extra money on marketing. You know a lot of our customers know about us, but a lot more should know about us. So, part of coming out, having a new logo, having a new digital campaign, changing the website, that costs money. But as a private company, we get to do that. Because the fruits of those efforts will end up occurring a couple of years down the road, which is fine. >> So let me see if I can weave those two thoughts together in what I thought was an interesting way. Given that increasingly a lot of data's going to be in the cloud, and that's where the longer analysis is going to be required, that means a lot of the tools are going to have to be in the cloud. Amazon Marketplace is going to be a place where a lot of tools are going to be chosen. People are going to go into the Amazon Marketplace and see a lot of different options, including some that are free. They may not work as well, but they're free. You guys, what happens with marketing, and what's happening with that kind of a trend, is you need to buy, as customers, to choose tools that are actually going to work to serve or to solve the problem, to do the work that you need them to perform. And so what Sally Jenkins, the CMO, has done, with this new branding, is introduce the process of how do you buy us more customers to choose the right tool to do the right job? Does that make sense to you? >> It makes absolute sense, free is good. But be careful what you ask for. Sometimes you get what you pay for. You're talking about enterprise data. You want it to be governed, you want it to be secure. You want it to be accurate. >> John: Now there's laws coming out where you have to do it. >> You look at GTB... >> Peter: GDBPR. >> GDBPR in Europe, the privacy issues. You look at what's happening with Facebook, or what was reported today with France and how they're not happy with Facebook's privacy behaviors. It's an issue. It's an issue for anybody who does business anywhere, especially if you're a global company and you do business in Europe. You have to worry about corporate governance. Data security, data governance, data security. That's Informatica. The other thing is, while there will be some customers who will say "I'm going to AWS," there will be more customers who will either say "I have some legacy "systems that I'm going to leave on-premise, "and new projects will be in the cloud." Or they're going to say "I'm moving everything to "the cloud, but I don't want to be held hostage "by one cloud provider." And they're going to go with Amazon and Azure and Google and maybe Oracle, and, and, and. And again, because Informatica is Swiss, we're able to provide them with a solution that allows them to accomplish their data needs. >> Well, congratulations on the performance, I want to get that out of the way. But I want to ask a specific question on the historical, holistic picture of Informatica. Going back, what were the key bets that you guys made? 'Cause you guys sit around, and you got the private equity now coming to the table, they have expectations, but at the end of the day you've got to build a business. What were the key bets that is yielding the fruit that we're seeing? >> The number one bet was that the company had great products and a great R&D organization. We believed that, and fortunately, we got it right. Because if you don't have great products and passionate R&D organizations around the world, you can't make up for that. It doesn't make a difference how much you spend on marketing. At least not in the business that we're in. So that was number one bet, and that proved to play out well. The second thing was, this was a company that had done so well for so long that they never needed to change their business processes to behave like a billion, two billion, three billion, four billion dollar company. Many of their business processes were like that of a 200 million dollar company. And that's easier to fix. So things around back end, IT, legal, finance, go-to-market, marketing, sales. >> John: Less of a risk from an investment standpoint. >> That's correct. So that's what we believed, we were right And where we've been spending most of our energy and effort is helping the company, through the new management team, improve their business processes and their go-to-market. >> So we had a critical analysis yesterday during our wrap up session, and one of the comments I made, I want to get your reaction to this, was although impressive, your number one and all these Gartner Magic Quadrant categories, but that's an old scoreboard. If we're really living in digital transformation, those shouldn't really be a tell sign for what the performance of the new KBIs or the new metrics are. And so we were pontificating and analyzing what that would be, still unknown, we're going to see it. But Peter had a good point, he said "At the end "of the day, customer wins." >> Yeah, that was my reaction. It's like at the end of the day, all that matters do the customers.... >> What's the scoreboard look for customer wins? I know you were at the executive summit they had yesterday at the Intercontinental right around the corner. I had a chance to meet some of them at that dinner, some conversation. But I want to get your perspective. What is the vibe of the customers, what are those customer wins, and how does that translate into future growth for Informatica? >> Any customer who is looking at data, data management, strategically, is going with Informatica. >> Mmm hmm. >> There are a number of competitors that we have who try to compete with Informatica at the product level, and they end up doing okay through pricing, through better sales tactics, but when we have the opportunity to speak to the Chief Data Officer, the CIO, the CEO, they go with Informatica. It's the reason why Tesla went with Informatica on their project where they're trying to tie together the auto business with the solar business. Because if they get to know both sets of customers and are able to sync that up, one plus one will be greater than two for them, and that's why they did that deal. Or it's why Amazon has chosen our MDM solution for their sales operations. So you look at leading companies who are able to look at the enterprise level, at the strategic level, they are going with Informatica. That's why we know we're winning. >> So Bruce, give us three sentences, what is strategic data management? >> Strategic data management is being able to take reams and reams of data from all different platforms, traditional legacy, big data, real-time solutions, and data from the cloud and be able to look at it intelligently. Use artificial intelligence and machine learning to be able to analyze that data in a more intelligent way, and then act on it. >> So two questions on that point, I was going to ask about the AI washing going on in the industry. Every event now is like, "Oh my god, AI, we've got AI," but that's not really AI. What is AI, we call it augmented intelligence because you're really augmenting with the data, but even Google IO's got a little neural net throwback to the 80s, but what's your thoughts on how customers should look through the lens of b.s. to say, "Wow, that's the real AI, or the real "augmented intelligence." >> Does it do anything? That's ultimately the question that a Chief Data Officer or CIO or CEO...is something changing because of the artificial intelligence being applied? In the case of Informatica, we announced an AI platform called Clair, "clairvoyant," so artificial intelligence. What is Clair? It allows you to develop solutions like our enterprise information catalog, where an organization has thousands and thousands of databases, it's able to look at the metadata within those databases and then over time keep disclosing more and more data appropriate to the information that you're looking for. So then, if I'm an analyst or a businessperson, a marketing person, a sales person, I can take action on the right set of data. That's true artificial intelligence. >> Bruce, I want to get to one final point as we are winding down here. Again, you've seen many waves. But I want to talk about the companies that are trying to get through the transition of this transformation, Informatica certainly cleared the runway, they've got some things to work on, certainly brand-building. I see that as their air cover in many rising tide will float a lot of boats in the ecosystem. But there are companies where they have been in the infrastructure business and the cloud is one big infrastructure, selling boxes and whatnot. Other companies have traditional software models, download, whatever you want to call it, on-prem licenses, not subscriptions. They're working hard. Your advice to them if you are on their Board, or as a friend, what do you say to them, what do they got to do to get through this? And how should customers look at who's winning and who's losing, in terms of progress? >> The world of enterprise computing is moving to the cloud. Legacy systems will remain for a while. They need to figure out how to take their legacy solutions and make them relevant to the world of cloud computing. And if they can't do that, they should sell their company or get out of business. (laughing) >> And certainly data is the oil, it's the gold, it's the lifeblood of an organization. >> Of any organization. Even at Informatica, internally, we're using our own intelligent data platform to do our own marketing. Sally Jenkins is working closely with our CIO Graeme Thompson on working on solutions where we could help better understand what our customers want and need, so we can provide them with the right solution, leveraging our intelligent data leg. >> Bruce, thanks for coming on the Cube. Really appreciate your insight. Again, you've seen a lot of waves, you've been in the industry a long time, you have great Board presence, as well as other companies. Thanks for sharing the insight, and the data here on the Cube. A lot of insights and analytics being extracted here and sharing it with you. Certainly we're not legacy, we don't need to sell our business, we're doing great. If you haven't, make the transition. Good advice, thanks so much. >> Bruce: Great to be here. >> Bruce Chizen inside the Cube here. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco it's the CUBE, covering Informatica World 2017 brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome back everyone, we're here live in San Francisco for our wrap-up of day one, the CUBE's exclusive coverage of Informatica World 2017. So our flagship program, we go out to the events, and extract the signal and the noise. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE, the CUBE. My co-host this week is Peter Burris, Head of Research at SiliconANGLE Media, also the General Manager of Wikibon.com. Go to Wikibon.com and check out all the great research, great stuff behind the paywall, subscription required but also some free content there as well and our special guest is Neil Raden, who's the new analyst on the Wikibon team. Welcome to the team. You're covering the value of data, and analytics industry veteran, great to have you on the team. Thanks for joining us on our wrap-up here. >> Thank you. >> Welcome Peter, look here, this is kind of a coming-out party for Informatica. We've been following them for multiple years. Some of their top exec has been CUBE alumni for many, many years. I think I admit Wallie's going to be on his eighth year, eighth time on the CUBE, but look behind as you see a new branding. Informatica has a new CMO, and she's got swagger and she's got brand impact. Informatica is now going to start bragging about their products. Although I have some critical analysis of Informatica we'll get to in a second but I've always said they've brought in a team of folks during the going private that have product chops, and they've had an install base, and their goal has been from the beginning let's go private close the curtain, and get stuff where you organize, and really work on the product and install base. Can they pivot? That was my question three years ago. Every year they keep on coming out with not a land grab but an incremental and moving the ball down the field to use your football analogy first and then do it again but starting to get into that horizontally scalable cloud model and with good cloud deals, looking poised, in my opinion, for being a data layer, potentially for making that data fabric on. So to me, I think that's the big story here. So far is some good news around the brand, product increases got AI, augmented intelligence with CLAIRE. Some interesting dynamics, which means the interface the data is changing, not only the underlying value of the data, which we want to get into but Informatica is trying to up level the interface. Your thoughts? >> So I think you're absolutely right, John. I think we've seen three things here. First off, Informatica has always had a pretty decent product kit, well embedded within some really first-rate customers. Number two, they've been talking about the need to accommodate some of the new trends around cloud, and how they're going to move in that direction. They've been talking about it. This is the first year we've really seen it. Number three, they even, when Informatica talks, people have historically not listened as much. Sally Jenkins, the new CMO has gotten an enormous amount of work done in a very, very short period of time. This is a bang so and it's manifesting itself in that people are buzzing about it. >> Yeah. >> It's even if Informatica has a lot to do to really be that enterprise cloud data management leader, a lot left to do but it all starts by presenting themselves in a coherent way. That's something that we're seeing for the first time. >> The value proposition has changed significantly. I was talking about the Amazon stock price. Since 2010, it's just been a skyrocket growth for Amazon across the board. Yeah, I got the retail but AWS certainly has been powering it. Having a good brand behind you is going to really energize the channel, ISV, software developers. Like I always joked about the old days, when I used to work at Hewlett-Packard, the joke was I used to call cold dead fish versus sushi. HP would be so accurate, so engineering-oriented, they would be so accurate around the products. They didn't really have a lot of marketing, and the joke was if they had sushi, they called it cold dead fish because that's what it is. Sushi sounds better but again back to marketing, they need to bring the brand out, and put a message around the shift to value. >> Well think about how important it's going to be to a company that increasingly acknowledges or acknowledges increasingly. Their customers are going to find it in something like the Amazon Marketplace or in Google, or in some other cloud environment. It means that they have to bias the customer to choose Informatica versus a range of tools that may not be as good but some of them are going to be open source to get people to bias at that moment, you got to get your brand out there. You have to get your identity out there. Informatica was not going to be a success when the customers making that decision as they're looking at that Amazon Marketplace just by word-of-mouth. They have to get their name out there. So this is big. The products are still good and making, and improving. Getting to the cloud is a big deal. Delivering on their promises, and now having a marketing platform that allows them to scream a little bit louder from the rafters, about who they are and what they want to be. A lot of it's coming again. >> Day two, we're going to have a lot. All the top execs on, they were in an off-site down the street right here at Intercontinental in San Francisco with Executive Customer Day, but we had SVP on for cloud business. We had the board member, Jerry Hill, who's five decades in the business. I mean he essentially laid it out. Hybrid cloud is here to stay, and it's not going to be an overnight success. It's going to be a transition, and that favors the legacy vendors, who are sharpening their saw, and getting their products in line. Of course we have the Chicago Cubs on, and we took the ring, almost put in my pocket in a very Putin-esque like style. We all know Robert Kraft waltz Super Bowl ring, to the biggest criminal in the world, Putin, but kind of a fun there. But the baseball team highlights the customer journeys. They have customers that love them and stay with them 'cause of the install base. >> Absolutely and Informatica is deeply embedded, and has been, Neil has been on the vanguard. Look, they got a lot of work to do but they've been on the vanguard of tying together the idea of data, data is an asset, tooling. So you can get more value out of the data through analytics. >> That's right, I'll tell you a little story. I mean, I brought Informatica in to one of my clients the first time in 1996. They were pretty much a brand new company. >> Peter: About a year after they started? >> Yeah and what motivated me to think about Informatica as opposed to any other way we were trying to get data into a data warehouse was that they understood metadata. They were the only company that had an active metadata repository. So this is their heritage. I know that Informatica claims they have, I don't know 10,000 customers. I think a significant number of those are not going to be interested in this whole thing. They don't have the budget for it. They don't have the time or the staff or anything but they've got the elite. When you look at the companies that are clients of Informatica, those are the people that would be interested in and spend time and money on this sort of thing. >> Well let me get you guys perspective as analyst because let's turn this into the analysis of what's happening here with Informatica, and compare that to what's happening in the industry. SAP Sapphire is happening right now in Orlando. We got CUBE coverage in our studio in Palo Alto. But Oracle, SAP, these are database guys. They have systems of record. IBM, Amazon is now a new player in that. They have to balance the install base, systems of record of their data. Now granted old techniques for walls, data warehouse, whatever you want to call. It was an old way. Now the new way's to empower developers to actually build and use that data. So the question is how do they get their product from old to new and modernize quickly, and highlight data as value because this is the thing that you guys are both researching heavily, is that data now is going to start to be evaluation discussion. Are we getting the data through the pipes, if you will, into the hands of the developers, into the apps, into the decision-making process in the value chains that are being reconstructed. This is a top conversation that not a lot of people are laying out there with best practices. Your thoughts? >> Well I think the first thing, then I'll start, like the first thing is that that's probably my biggest thing on Informatica here, is that they need to be more of a beacon about what is the new data management. It's more than just the combination of tools. It's more than just getting data out of applications, and getting data out of databases, and freeing it up so they can be applied. The notion of data management is evolving rapidly, and businesses are trying to as they try to use data as an asset is going to require some significant changes to how we think about-- >> Do you think they could put that stake in the ground right now and owned that right now? >> I think somebody has to. I think they need to take a crack at it. >> I think they're weak on the value. I think they're weak on, you know what happens, I always have this idea that you see their layer cakes, and the things that go from left to right but on the right-hand side of the diagram, there are no people right. What happens when you implement all this? How do people use this okay? That's true of everybody in this industry, not just Informatica. So that's one weakness. Last year when I was here, I thought they had a real weakness in governance but with the dike who acts on acquisitions, I think they made a giant step towards that. They've got a lot, they've got a lot of the piece, parts, and then putting them together but I don't think they're addressing what happens next. I call it the Jordan River problem. We wandered around for 40 years. We got to the Jordan River. We can't get across the damn river right. >> Is it a river or lake or an ocean? I mean it's a data river. It's something happening. It's a lake or something. >> I think that's where they are because it's a whole different discipline. >> But is that on Informatica? I mean they're now a smaller company or is that an industry issue? >> No, it's an industry issue but companies like Informatica, if they really want to be a leader as he flings his grad classes around, that's all passionate I have about this. If they want to be a leader or the leader, they have to put a stake in the ground don't they? >> I believe so. >> Okay so what about positives? Neil what's your thoughts on how are they well-positioned in your mind? >> Well, putting together all these different pieces so that they operate together is phenomenal. Moving to, I still don't understand how enterprise software companies move to a subscription model smoothly. That's got to be a real headache but they're moving to that. They've adopted the cloud. They still have the data integration. I mean that's their keystone. It works beautifully, it gets better every year, and that's what attracts people to them. So I think these are all good things. >> And the good news is they're private so they can do that subscription, kind of hide the ball a little bit then come out. But they're not doing bad. I mean they have a spring to their step. >> Here's, I think Neil's absolutely right. Here's what I would add to it. They're executing, they have demonstrated over the past couple of years, certainly that we've been here, and listening to them, they made promises, they've delivered. They've made new promises, they've delivered. Some of these promises have been complex. Some of them have been extremely hard. They've still delivered. That is a real important piece of the story because this notion of data management is changing. Developers are going to want to work with companies that have competent management, that deliver on the promises they're making and Informatica is proving that they're up to that progress. >> I think, I think-- >> Another thing John, they have brilliant people. Everybody I've met here from Informatica is really special. I mean you know maybe they kept the clunkers in the closet somewhere but they've got brilliant motivated people working here. >> John: You've got a ton of experience. >> Peter: We're passionate about this stuff. >> They've got a lot of experience too, and they brought in some new guns the product side we're going to admit has a fantastic product executive and he obviously has that background but I want to shift now to the end user now. They're now living in the world of massive business transformation. Yeah, digital transformation, rah-rah. It's kind of overhyped but what that translates to is business transformation. That's the conversation on all CXOs. >> Peter: Business transformation around data. >> Around data so I want to get your thoughts now vis-a-vis that the customers perspective. I'm looking at Informatica. How do I feel about them? >> Well before I march off this mortal coil, this is what I want to happen. I want to say look computer I want to put together a new pricing model all right. Here are a couple variables I'm interested in. One of my competitors just issued a press release with some new pricing data. Go get that and come back to me with some data. Recommend some data I need to build a model to do this. >> Peter: Give me some updates. >> Yeah. >> That's CLAIRE, I mean that's something to talk about doing some automation machine learning. Peter, do you think that's the nirvana, that is a nice position to be? It's like hey Alexa, play some music, and you know they play a genre for you. So I mean give me some data, pricing data. >> So let's think about the elements that are going to be important as we think about this new notion of data management. Again, I don't think Informatica is too far from this. A new notion of data management suggests number one, that if your business is going to use data differently, you have to introduce some notion of some concept of design. How do I design business around data, and how do I design data around business needs? Part of that problem is going to be being able to go out and capture inventory catalog metadata. No question about it. You're going to need the next generation of data management. It's going to be very metadata focused. Secondly, you need a lot of the tooling that's capable of doing the transformation and creating derivative value out of data. That's something else that they have. The third one and this is a really, really important piece, and we talked about it for example with (faint) and a couple of other people. Data has to move but it has to move not just based on point to point interfaces that are programmed and built but based on patterns of utilization, and in a way that the system recognizes that. That is going to be crucially important, that whole notion of data that's moving in response to what the business needs, and not what the people recognize and do. >> Okay, so that reminds me. I was speaking to someone who is part of their security stuff right and I said well have you considered how data security could benefit analyst as opposed to keeping the company out of trouble? >> Peter: Business analysts? >> Yeah, just couldn't answer the question right. Because I said, so tell me how this works, and she said "Well, if someone has a pattern "of how they work with data, "if suddenly they work out in that pattern, "it's going to send off a signal." I said what's a signal? Are they going to get a skull and crossbones like oh you can't have this data. >> It sends off a policy flag. Okay, hey you're out of your swim lane. It's like get back into your jail cell. I mean it's restrictive, Absolutely restrictive. >> But think about it this way. Don't you want your analysts to be thinking out of the box? Which means on a regular basis, they would be requesting data they don't normally want. >> Here's what I like about Informatica from my perspective. Again, you guys are in under the hood in a deeper way but from my perspective is that what they're doing with the horizontally scalable is interesting, and this is interesting on the metadata side, you mentioned that with SPAN, Google SPAN are now available. They're in Amazon. If they can somehow create that addressable data sets that could be horizontally scalable and freely available, I think that is a winning strategy because most of the vendors in the data take a siloed stack approach. Okay here's our stack, you own it. So I think they're on this genius play of okay we can get this horizontal layer, that is now the lock spec, because now I mean I'm agnostic on cloud. So to me I think that directionally is correct. Where that is when the rubber meets the road, is a whole another story. So your thoughts on that. >> It's very exciting, I hope they pull it off. >> Yeah, I think it's very exciting. So if you think about it-- >> How do they pull it off? >> Let's well, so there's, let's-- >> We're not being shot by the other income with bigger guns. >> Let's think about it a couple of different ways of thinking about this right. On the one hand, you have new ways of thinking about how data is going to be spread in a multi or a hybrid cloud world. So that's happening. Secondly, we're thinking about data control, and a data control plane above that, and they're a bunch of companies that are talking about how you bring control across all these different multi cloud instances. On top of that, now we're talking about some of the analytics and how data gets huge from a metadata standpoint. So this is extremely relevant to where the industry is going to be in five years. Somebody is going to get there. It's best to look for the folks who are skating to that puck. Informatica seems to be skating to that puck. >> All right, I want to ask you guys a question. I want you to tell me if I'm smoking crack or not. When I say this the whole goal of getting data from any database at any given time in less than 100 milliseconds, no matter where it came from, when it came from, IOT included all the stuff that's coming in, I'm an app developer, I want data programmability. Meaning I have an app, and I'm doing some some cognitive, cognition thing and all sudden, Neil you bought something at Nordstrom's from three years ago. It's some database. Yeah, that means let's think about the logic on that query. But that data could be cross connected with other relevant data, your Twitter stuff or whatever you're doing, and pull together, provide some insight for you. Now that sounds like I'm smoking crack to pull that off. Is that possible? Can it be done in the kind of low latency mechanism? >> You know it can be done but I don't think we know enough about the data. There are four types of metadata still leave out deep semantic information. I'm hoping they're going to work on that. I mean I was in here 10 years ago pitching ontologies, and they threw me out. (laughs) But I think that the four types of-- (fast crosstalk) Yeah, I think the four types of metadata are great but they're still generating it mechanically from datasets as opposed to some knowledge about what the data really means. To do what you want to do, I think you need some kind of semantic metadata. >> I agree with that, and you also need semantic information about the underlying network as well. So the idea of a semantic-- >> So a lot more work to do to make that happen. >> A lot more work. So final question-- >> It's probably not going to be 100 milliseconds, 140, 150, maybe 200. >> Yeah, well I mean anything, just getting the data would be a win. Okay final question this is kind of more on the stuff we were talking about in leading to the intro of the work you guys are doing. The valuation concept of data, I mean I say valuation, I could mean financial valuation. How valuable a firm is? Or what is our CFO goes, where's our assets, where's our data assets? So there's a combination of data hygiene, and also in heart surgery, right, if it's the heartbeat of your organization, who the hell's the surgeon? Who's the doctor? When do you do CPR? Who does the hygiene? Who does the amputation? I mean who does, I mean this is like, I mean this is a data nightmare of a reconstruction of a company. The nature of the firm is completely upside down when you start thinking data. Just your reaction to that concept. >> Well, they have a very loyal customer base. So I think that they can get out with this before it's completely cooked, and have some success. Maybe I'm being optimistic. I don't know but I think-- >> John: Valuation of data. >> I think that there is a way of thinking about it is not to value data in a narrow sense but to think about data, what we're calling data dynamics. The idea that data's value is founded in its use. It's not something that has value when it's just sitting there and not being used. >> It's, yeah, it's like that old saw. I don't know how to define pornography but I know it when I see it, right. That was a Supreme Court Justice. I didn't say that. >> John: Looks like teenage sex. The hero things they're having it, pull the notch. >> This goes back to the notion of data management. It's how am I going to use data? How am I going to get value out of data through its use? That suggests a whole different set of principles and practices that are quite different from how we normally value assets. >> Okay, tomorrow we got the top execs coming in. We got the CMO, we got the CEO, we got the EVP of Products. What should we be asking them tomorrow? What should I be opening up the kimono and digging into them on? >> I'll ask him what the roadmap is in terms of getting this implemented in their best customers. Not the software development roadmap. So tell us. (fast crosstalk) How this is going to roll out for you? >> You're going to be here up 'til two o'clock. We'll be there, what are you going to be looking at? >> I'll look for two things. One is I would continuously push on the execution. Are they really executing as reliably as we think they are? 'Cause they're making some big promises this year too. The second one I'd look at is again, that beacon, that touchstone, what is this new data management? What are you really going to be leading? >> I'm still blown away by the conferences I go to, everyone's like what is a new way, new modern era's evolving and it's transforming. We're number one in five magic quadrants. I mean how can you get magic quadrants as the scoreboard if you go into a new definition? So again, our metric KPI on that is customers. What is your customer traction? Show me the proof points. I don't care what magic quadrant you're in. That's an old metric. That's siloed based. That's not reality based, in my opinion. So we will drill them on customers. To me that's the scoreboard. Okay it's the CUBE breaking down day one wrap up here at Informatica World. This is CUBE coverage. I'm John Furrier, Peter Burris, and special guest new Wikibon analyst, Neil Raden, covering the value of data and analytics. See you tomorrow, stay with us for more continuing coverage tomorrow for full day. Be right back.