>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cute conversation. >>Everyone. Welcome to the cube conversation here from our Palo Alto studios. I'm John furrier, host of the cube. We're here with our remote crew, getting all the interviews, getting all the stories that matter during this time were all sheltering in place during the COVID crisis. We've got a great returning guest, John Madison, EVP of products and chief marketing officer. Fordanet John. Great to see you, uh, looking good with the home studio. They're getting used to it. Yeah, indeed. Good to be here again, John. Thanks for coming. I really appreciate it. We're hearing a lot about sassy, which has a secure access network adjuncts, zero trust network access. Uh, what does that all mean now these days? What does this sassy? Well, there's definitely a lot of hype around the word sassy, which is the security of the age. Uh, for us actually it confirms a strategy that we've had since the beginning of the company. >>And two important concepts. One is, uh, the coming together of, uh, networking and security. We could refer to it as security driven networking, and we've been doing it using ACX and appliances for a long time. Uh, we're now going to expand it to a cloud as well as that's one concept, again, bringing together networking and security or converging them in a way. And then the second concept is more around a platform approach. So if you look at the definition of sassy, it includes, it includes web gateway as a service you a trust Caz B, a wife, et cetera. And so bringing those together in a platform approach, we refer to it as the fabric. So we're actually really happy about those two concepts coming together. Maybe the name itself could be, could be different, but definitely the concepts and the technologies play really well to our strategy. >>Yeah, it's sassy. S a S E not two ways, not like SAS softwares of service. Wait for one noses cloud. Yeah. I tried using the full name and I've reverted back to sassy again. So short and sassy, keep it short and sweet. Um, okay, well this is a super important relevant topic for multiple reasons. One is COVID is kind of accelerated the future for everybody. And you know, we've been kind of riffing on Twitter and throughout the industry I've been calling it the big IOT, uh, experiment because the unforecasted disruption of COVID is forced everyone to work at home. So the notion of work changes workplace is now home workforce, the people, how their interaction with the networks, workloads, workflows, all changing new expectations, new experiences. This is the real deal. And the edge is where the action is. That's the big, new obvious architectural highlight here. >>Yeah, so we talked last time. I think it would just be getting this work from home, uh, element, but, um, we're still here. And I think what it says is that what is forced is that, uh, enterprises and customers need to look at their edges and they're increasing. So we always, the one edge was a new one over the last two years. As we introduced us the, when they had a data center edge, they had an endpoint edge and now you have a home edge. And so you've got to apply security as a cloud edge as well. You've got to apply security to these edges. And the key is the flexibility to apply the security you want and you need against this agent. And so we're seeing some customers right now, look at setting up mini enterprise networks to protect that home age again, in that, in the homes of their executives or developers. >>And we reported with the news. You guys had a couple of months ago around just as such been a feeding frenzy for hackers and bad actors to go after the home environment. Um, as well as the it guys who are working from home, you have the cloud consumption's shifted as well. You're seeing the cloud players doing extremely well because now you have more cloud, you have more vulnerabilities at the edge with the home. This is changing completely increasing the attacks. >>Yeah. The tack factors, you know, predominantly, still actually, you know, a lot of fishing, but then if you're on the network, that attack factor is very important. So for us, and, you know, we did an acquisition last week of opaque networks because that gave us an additional consumption model and different additional form factor. So if somebody going from the home straight into the cloud, or the pairing off a branching off an SD Wang connection straight into the cloud, we can now apply that cloud edge security throughout our sassy capabilities. And so again, the ability to have security at all, these edges has become very important going forward. So for us now we've got appliances, we've got virtual machines, we've got cloud delivery, and this is becoming very important to customers. I'm not saying, and customers are not saying they're going to go to just cloud only going forward. They're going to be hybrid. And so having those options is very important. >>You mentioned opaque networks, we reported that acquisition. Congratulations. What does that mean for Fordanet and where does that technology fit? And you mentioned software. Can you just take a minute to explain the acquisition impact Affordanet and where does the tech fit? >>Well, as I said, we've been driving a lot of this conversion, sassy conversions through our appliances. Um, but it's sometimes makes sense to put that security closer to the cloud during points or wherever. And so opaque, we really liked their model of building out these hyper hearing stations and making sure they got high-speed security there as well as edges. And so, um, we bring, we're going to bring that inside our environment, uh, update it to include some of our technology, uh, but it gives us now great flexibility, uh, of applying that security at the SD wan edge, the data center agent now without edge or longer-term roadmaps will integrate orchestration capabilities. It also includes a zero trust network access capability as well. So really when we looked at our, uh, of sassy framework, uh, we had most of the things in place. This now adds firewall as a service as well as zero trust network access, giving us the most complete sassy framework in the marketplace. >>What is the security component of the work at home? You mentioned earlier, there's more networks and companies are looking to kind of up level the capabilities. Can you give an example and take us through what that like and what companies are thinking about, because it's not just, here's some extra money for your home bandwidth, your people are working there. It's like, it's gotta be industrial strength edge. Now it's not just, um, you know, temporary and their kids are home too. So you got they're gaming, they're watching Netflix, people zooming in and doing WebExes all day long. >>Yeah, it can be as simple as putting a zero trust network access, you know, an agent on there and doing some security locally, and then going back through a proxy in a, we believe actually that it's, it can be even better than that. That can apply many enterprise security in your house through a next gen firewall, give high availability through SD wan, uh, then, you know, expand out their secure access and switching and end points. And we can do that today. I think what's going to be key going forward is as you're dealing as it, uh, teams have to deal with more of a consumer approach remotely in the homes, we're gonna have to simplify the way things get set up, such that you can easily separate out, maybe home usage from corporate enterprise users. So that will be something we'll be working on over the next 18 months. >>I mean, just the provisioning, the hardware, okay, here you go. Plug it in it. Should it be plug and play? And this is kind of back to the future of where SAS is going. I mean, the old days was plug and play was the technology. Now you've hit that concept. It has to be auto configured. You have to provision pretty quickly. What's the future of sassy in your mind. >>Yeah. And so, you know, if you think about, you know, coming back to the home usage, then people have dumbed down those routers and the security is very simplistic. So we, people can just plug and play. If you, it needs to be a bit more sophisticated. Uh, you're going to need to put some tools in place. We believe longterm that the sassy model, once you've got the platforms in place, once you've got SD wan in place, your Cosby or your sassy zero trust and longterm, you're going to need an orchestration system. That's more AI driven. So we've done a lot of work on AI around security and making sure we can see things very quickly. Um, but the longterm goal, I think will be around AI ops, AI network ops, uh, where the system and the big data systems are looking across your network, across these different components to see where there may be an issue. Maybe there's a certain length has gone down across a certain ISP. We need to bring that back up. Maybe there's a certain cure or as to an application in the cloud somewhere. So we need to change the OnRamp. Uh, so once everything's in place and you have that console and policy engine that can look across everything, and then we need to get smarter by looking at the data and the logs, et cetera, and applying some of that AI technology. >>You know, John, we've been following Fordanet as you know, for many, many years and watching the evolution of you guys as a company. And also as the industry, the new waves are coming in. Um, a lot of the stuff you're doing with the fabric and now the secure driven networking has been kind of on the playbook. So I want to get your thoughts before we get into those topics and define them and kind of unpack them. But generally customers are looking at, um, a slew of vendors out there and you have 10 of two approaches. You have a platform, and then you have the we're an application or fully full stack or SAS or something. And this there's trade offs between the two. And how should customers understand the difference? Because there's different value propositions for each platforms, more enabling out of the box, SAS or point solution can solve a particular thing, but it may not have that breadth. How should customers think about a platform approach or fabric and how should they think about the value and how to engage with that longterm? >>Yeah, I'm definitely seeing more customers look towards a platform going forward. They just can't manage all the different point solutions and you don't have to train an individual in that product. You have to have a separate management console, you have to integrate it. And so more and more I'm finding customers wanting to converge, which is the basis of sassy consolidate applications onto a platform of security applications. What's important over that platform is that the consumption model is flexible enough to be an appliance, to be a virtual machine and to be cloud delivery does as a customer's networks move and their orchestration systems move into different, more cloud, or they've got their IP enabling their factories, for example, then they need that security to be flexible. So yes, you need to be a platform as the way forward. Um, but two things. One is you need a flexible consumption model for it. You know, clients, virtual machine and cloud. And also that platform needs to be very open. It needs to have connectors into the main orchestration systems that needs to allow people to build API and automation. So, uh, yes, you, you need a platform, but it needs to be open and it needs to be flexible. >>Great, great insight there. And that's exactly what the marketing, especially with cloud the kind of scale, second follow up question to that is how do you tell the difference between a tool camouflage is a platform. So I have a tool I want to sell you a tool, but no, it's a platform. So a lot of people are peddling tools and saying their platforms. How do you know the difference? >>Well, to me, a platform that has much greater scope across the attack surface festival, they attack factors whether that be email or application the network, the end point. So platforms not just of a specific attack back to go across the complete surface. And then also a platform is Wednesday organically built, allows those products to communicate. So then you can build automation across it. It's very hard to build automation across two or three different vendors. They have different scripts. So been able to build that automation. And then of course, on top of that, to have a single view, single visibility capability, as well as longterm applied that AI ops across it. So platform is very, very different from the, some of the tools I've seen in the marketplace. >>I want to get to your reaction to a comment that your CEO said about security driven, networking, and underscores what we've been saying for years, blah, blah, blah. He goes on in this era of hyperconnectivity and expanding networks with the network edge stretching across the entire digital infrastructure, um, networking and security have to be kind of be their, their convergence. You mentioned describe how you view hyper-connectivity and expanding networks and how the edge stretches across the digital infrastructure. What's what does that look like? Can you share your vision of that? >>Well, when you think about networking, if you go back 20 years, when you have these 10 megabit per second connections, learning, networking, and routing and switching, they haven't really changed that much over the last eight years, 20 years, they've just got a lot faster, gone to now to 400. You give us a second, but the basic functionality is the same. And so it's allowed them to go a lot faster. Um, security is very different, even though it started off with firewalling than VPN, and then next gen firewall, SSL inspection, all these functionalities IPS have been added, making a lot harder for it to keep up in the network. And so one of the fundamental principles of security and networking is bringing these two things together, but accelerating them either using a six and now cloud through our acquisition, uh, to allow those to run in a converged format. >>And that's very important because as I said, there's now more, you can look at it two ways. You can say the perimeter has expanded because it used to be a very narrow perimeter. The data center across these areas, or at the edges have formed as well. There's new edges sitting at the OT environment, sitting at the wan edge, sitting at the home mattress. I talked about seeing the cloud edge. And so the ability to apply that security in very high performance, very high quality security, not just a small sampling of security, a full enterprise stack, but those edges is going to be critical going forward. And the flexibility to apply in different ways is going to be very important. >>I think the convergence piece is totally relevant and honestly it consolidating into a platform is very key point there. Um, while I got you here, I would just like you I'd like you to define what is security driven networking and what does it mean to be security driven? So define security, driven, networking, and give an example of what it means. >>Yeah. And so I think it's, I think the one edge was one of the best examples of it. I mean, actually go before that next gen Fila was where you bought firewalling and then content inspection to go there. But I think the latest one is definitely the one edge or secure SD land where you had a networking function, which was to get the users to the right applications. And so they got this application now steering that goes out through there. Well, you also want to apply security to that because security into the wham, you've also got to protect the land. And so the ability to run a security stack there, whether it be IDs, right, patient control is very important. So getting all those networking functions, working at high speed, getting all the security functions, working at high speed, uh, is that it's the kind of the Genesis of security driven networking, and you can apply it there. We can also apply it in other places at the age, in the cloud. Now the home, uh, it's a very, very important concept, uh, to be able to run networking and security together. But high speed, >>Everyone has their own kind of weird definition of sassy, depending on when you're building your own or different analyst firms. Uh, I noticed you guys have a different take on this. Even Gartner has a different view on this. How do you guys diff differ from that, that definition and what should people be aware of when they hear that? What is the right definition? >>Yeah. You know, it's unfortunate. I mean, I think Ghana does some good work there and that they define it and I've come up with sassy, but this is like acronym soup. And, you know, I want a bit of next gen firewall on my sassy. It's just, it's just so many different terms. It confuses the customer. Then what makes it more confusing is that vendors look at their portfolio and go, Oh, sassy is a hot topic. I've got a sassy as well. And really, it should be very clear what the definition from Gardner is. It is bringing together security and networking. Now their definition is that they, uh, you should do that in the cloud, which we agree with as well, but it can only be in the cloud. The reason it's in the cloud is because not many people have got the ability to run on an appliance very fast. >>So we believe our different stairs that you should be able to run it on an appliance virtual machine in cloud. And then the second kind of differences that they've defined the components of Sassies being Estee, wagon, Cosby, firewalls, a service zero trust. We also think that the land age is very important. So we would add into that definition, that secure access of wifi and Ethan at switching as well. And so we try and point out, you know, the gun definition and we also point out where we differ and I think that's fair to the customer can make a good decision. >>I think it is fair. And I think one of the things I've been saying for years, and I love garden, I love the guys over there and gals. I just don't think that their business model is real time as much, but they ended up kind of getting it right down the road. But you brought up a good point. And again, I've been saying this for years, cloud changes Gartner's model because there's, if you have quadrants, it implies silos and implies categories. And one of the best things about cloud is it does horizontally scale. So some of the best vendors actually have multiple capabilities that might fall on different quadrants that may or may not be judged on a criteria that meets what cloud's doing. So, yeah, for instance, Asics, you mentioned right. That's in there too. You get cloud and ACX is that where they've got two different categories? You add the edge in there. If you do all three, really great as an integrated, converged and consolidated platform, you're technically awesome, but you might not fit in the quadrant. >>Yes. That's a really good point. I have this conversation with them all the time in that traditionally enterprises have a networking teams and security teams, and they've been in silos or I've had a networking team that just does switching or just this routing, just this SD wan. And I have a security team that does web gateway, and then they like to separate them all into different components. When you look inside those Nike quadrants, they're all different, even at the same vendor, the different products. And what we like to do is bring it all together. You a single operating system, a single appliance or cloud virtual machine. Sometimes it's not quite, it doesn't quite fit the model, but in the end, you're trying to do the same thing. Know, and COVID-19 >>One of the real realities that everyone's dealing with is it does expose everything and an expose. And again, it's been a disruption unforecasted, but it's not like an outage or a flood or a hurricane. If it happened and it's happening, it really puts the pressure on looking at the network. It's looking at how you can have continuous operations. How are you working with your people and workloads, workforces apps. You got to have it all there. And if you're not digitally enabled, you're going to be on the wrong side of history. This is what companies are facing every day. And they've got to come back and double down on the right project. So every CXO I talk about, that's the number one challenge I need to come out of the pandemic with a growth strategy and an architecture. That's going to allow me to take advantage of the new realities. Hey, it's really good for people to work at home. That's cool. Some people are going to continue to do that. Maybe that's normal. Maybe that's a new tactic >>And it's going to vary by industry as well. So if I'm a retail outlet, I absolutely need it 100% of the time, but those retail outlets cause people are ordering online and then they're driving up. And so it has changed the dynamics. It's for me working at home, I have to be on all the time. And so the ability to do really good, high quality networking, high availability, high IQ of as, with this integrated security across the different edges is super critical. >>I was talking with a network friend of mine. Again, we were having a few zoom cocktails and do a little social networking online. And we were like, and we've, and we've mentioned it before in the queue, but we keep coming back to the land is the new land. And meaning that it's in the old days, land was everything, everything, the local area network, and you were inside the data center, everything was great on premises. When is the new land? So if you think about it that way you go, okay, when edge I got a, now Atlanta at home, you got to SD wan and your house, of course you worked for Fournette. So it's a little bit beneficial for you, your, your, your, your geek there, but this is the new normal where it's all one network. It's not just a land link, it's a system. Can you react to that? What's your take on that? When is the new land kind of ref, >>First of all, it can't be too picky. He goes on the CMO as well. So there's no talk about the geekiness. Um, but, um, it's just, it just makes as a skip saying, it's, it's, it's making sure that wherever you may be, uh, you know, you're doing less traveling these days, but that may come back at some point or where they are at a branch office or a campus environment or wherever applications, and then moving around in different clouds, in different areas, in terms of consumption of workloads, um, wherever that's happening, you gotta be able to be flexible and applying that security to the different edges, land edge, one edge home edge data center edge. And so the ability to do that, uh, while providing high speed and connectivity, uh, is very important. And then again, as you go forward and you implement that platform approach. So not just the point product now, three or four products working together, uh, being able to apply that policy orchestration and AI ops is going to make sure that they get that user in the end. It's all about the user experience. Do I have a high quality of experience, whatever application I'm using? That's the key measurement in the end? >>You know, one observation I would have, if you look back at the whole virtualization trend, going back to the early days of VMware, that kind of enabled Amazon and kind of having a large scale kind of infrastructure, hyperconvergence really kind of collapsed everything together. And now you seeing things with Amazon, like outposts, you seeing, you know, these non premises devices, which is basically one cloud operations kind of highlights what you're saying here. And I want to get your thoughts on this because the combination of Asics with cloud, it's not a bug, it's a feature for you guys. That's a value proposition and it's kind of consistent with some of the big players like AWS. When you look at what they're doing and apprenticeships, for instance, what they're putting in the servers, having that combination of horsepower Asex with cloud is a guiding principle of the future architecture. Can you share your thoughts was also, you guys are, are announcing that and have that feature. >>Yeah, well, w another reason why I like the opaque acquisition as they were their major appearing pubs into the different cloud service providers that were using hardware and that hardware, uh, we, we can run hardware and with our Asics almost 50, a hundred times faster than equipment CPU. So I've got a firewall application I've gone on appliance. There, I may need a hundred virtual machines and, and CPU they're running the same thing. So again, we're coming back to our definition of security driven, networking in our minds. It can be basic, it can be virtual machine and it can be cloud. Now, imagine if we can take the best benefits of basic and combine that with cloud, uh, that's a great model going forward again, given that flexibility. So when people think cloud something has to run on something, it doesn't run in fresh air. So, you know, the big cloud vendors are putting in some Asex to accelerate some of the AI stuff, and we're going to use the same thing in some of our major, what we call 40 sassy. You know, our naming methodology is 40, whatever it does or going forward to provide us that performance and high availability now. Yeah. So you're always going to need some flexibility of virtual machines in certain areas, but we think the combination of both, it gives us a great advantage. Yeah. >>And there's definitely evidence that, I mean, there's a, there's kind of two schools of thought on hardware. Are you a box mover, you know, commodity general purpose, or are you using the hardware and a system architecture, acceleration has been a huge advantage, whether I've seen companies doing accelerated Kubernetes processing, you know, for clusters and some, you know, see GPS are out there. It's, it's, it's how you use the hardware. Yeah. That's the, really the key it's and again, back to the architecture. So, okay. So wrapping up, if you, if you believe that, and you look at the fabric that you guys are having out there, and as it evolves, what's the, what's the next level for 400. How do you see this going forward? You've got security driven networking, and you got the fabric. What's next? What are you guys working on the product side? >>I know you're public, you can't reveal any future earnings, but give us a taste of kind of the direction on the roadmap. I think, you know, we've got now all the, all the kind of component that underlying components of the platform in terms of the ability to apply appliances, deliver it by appliances or virtual machine or cloud. Um, we've got a very broad portfolio from endpoint, uh, all the way into, to the cloud and the networks, all those things that are in place. Obviously you always need some features here and there as you go forward and nest it when and next gen firewall, et cetera. Um, but I think the longterm, I think a goal for his nine is to, again, to apply a bit more intelligence, uh, both from a security perspective and from a network perspective, such that we can predict things, we can automatically change things. >>We can build automation and react to things much more quickly. So I think the building blocks are in place. Now. I think it's the ability to provide a bit more smarts across it, uh, which of course takes big data and very specific application programming. And I think, uh, definitely our customers are asking us about that. And we look very closely with our customers to build out that, to make sure it meets their needs going forward while it's great to see the platform continue to grow and, and fill in a holistic view of the, of the landscape from edge to throughout the enterprise. So a great strategy and thanks for the update, John Madison, the VP of product and CMR for that. John. Great to have you on. Thanks for coming on extra. Okay. This is the cube conversation here in Palo Alto studios. I'm Chad for a year hosting the cube. Thanks for watching.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is >> a cute conversation. Hey, welcome back. Get ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube. We're gonna rip out the studios for acute conversation. It's the middle of the summer, the conference season to slow down a little bit. So we get a chance to do more cute conversation, which is always great. Excited of our next guest. He's Ridge, IP, Ops Statik. He's a VP and GM from key. Cite, Reject. Great to see you. >> Thank you for hosting us. >> Yeah. So we've had Marie on a couple of times. We had Bethany on a long time ago before the for the acquisition. But for people that aren't familiar with key site, give us kind of a quick overview. >> Sure, sure. So I'm within the excess solutions group Exhale really started was founded back in 97. It I peered around 2000 really started as a test and measurement company quickly after the I poet became the number one vendor in the space, quickly grew around 2012 and 2013 and acquired two companies Net optics and an ooey and net optics and I knew we were in the visibility or monitoring space selling taps, bypass witches and network packet brokers. So that formed the Visibility Group with a nice Xia. And then around 2017 key cite acquired Xia and we became I S G or extra Solutions group. Now, key site is also a very large test and measurement company. It is the actual original HB startup that started in Palo Alto many years ago. An HB, of course, grew, um it also started as a test and measurement company. Then later on it, it became a get a gun to printers and servers. HB spun off as agile in't, agile in't became the test and measurement. And then around 2014 I would say, or 15 agile in't spun off the test and measurement portion that became key site agile in't continued as a life and life sciences organization. And so key sites really got the name around 2014 after spinning off and they acquired Xia in 2017. So more joy of the business is testing measurement. But we do have that visibility and monitoring organization to >> Okay, so you do the test of measurement really on devices and kind of pre production and master these things up to speed. And then you're actually did in doing the monitoring in life production? Yes, systems. >> Mostly. The only thing that I would add is that now we are getting into live network testing to we see that mostly in the service provider space. Before you turn on the service, you need to make sure that all the devices and all the service has come up correctly. But also we're seeing it in enterprises to, particularly with security assessments. So reach assessment attacks. Security is your eye to organization really protecting the network? So we're seeing that become more and more important than they're pulling in test, particularly for security in that area to so as you. As you say, it's mostly device testing. But then that's going to network infrastructure and security networks, >> Right? So you've been in the industry for a while, you're it. Until you've been through a couple acquisitions, you've seen a lot of trends, so there's a lot of big macro things happening right now in the industry. It's exciting times and one of the ones. Actually, you just talked about it at Cisco alive a couple weeks ago is EJ Computer. There's a lot of talk about edges. Ej the new cloud. You know how much compute can move to the edge? What do you do in a crazy oilfield? With hot temperatures and no powers? I wonder if you can share some of the observations about EJ. You're kind of point of view as to where we're heading. And what should people be thinking about when they're considering? Yeah, what does EJ mean to my business? >> Absolutely, absolutely. So when I say it's computing, I typically include Io TI agent. It works is along with remote and branch offices, and obviously we can see the impact of Io TI security cameras, thermal starts, smart homes, automation, factory automation, hospital animation. Even planes have sensors on their engines right now for monitoring purposes and diagnostics. So that's one group. But then we know in our everyday lives, enterprises are growing very quickly, and they have remote and branch offices. More people are working from remotely. More people were working from home, so that means that more data is being generated at the edge. What it's with coyote sensors, each computing we see with oil and gas companies, and so it doesn't really make sense to generate all that data. Then you know, just imagine a self driving car. You need to capture a lot of data and you need to process. It just got really just send it to the cloud. Expect a decision to mate and then come back and so that you turn left or right, you need to actually process all that data, right? We're at the edge where the source of the data is, and that means pushing more of that computer infrastructure closer to the source. That also means running business critical applications closer to the source. And that means, you know, um, it's it's more of, ah, madness, massively distributed computer architecture. Um, what happens is that you have to then reliably connect all these devices so connectivity becomes important. But as you distribute, compute as well as applications, your attack surface increases right. Because all of these devices are very vulnerable. We're probably adding about 5,000,000 I ot devices every day to our network, So that's a lot of I O T. Devices or age devices that we connect many of these devices. You know, we don't really properly test. You probably know from your own home when you can just buy something and could easily connect it to your wife. I Similarly, people buy something, go to their work and connect to their WiFi. Not that device is connected to your entire network. So vulnerabilities in any of these devices exposes the entire network to that same vulnerability. So our attack surfaces increasing, so connection reliability as well as security for all these devices is a challenge. So we enjoy each computing coyote branch on road officers. But it does pose those challenges. And that's what we're here to do with our tech partners. Toe sold these issues >> right? It's just instinct to me on the edge because you still have kind of the three big um, the three big, you know, computer things. You got the networking right, which is just gonna be addressed by five g and a lot better band with and connectivity. But you still have store and you still have compute. You got to get those things Power s o a cz. You're thinking about the distribution of that computer and store at the edge versus in the cloud and you've got the Leighton see issue. It seems like a pretty delicate balancing act that people are gonna have to tune these systems to figure out how much to allocate where, and you will have physical limitations at this. You know the G power plant with the sure by now the middle of nowhere. >> It's It's a great point, and you typically get agility at the edge. Obviously, don't have power because these devices are small. Even if you take a room order branch office with 52 2 100 employees, there's only so much compute that you have. But you mean you need to be able to make decisions quickly. They're so agility is there. But obviously the vast amounts of computer and storage is more in your centralized data center, whether it's in your private cloud or your public cloud. So how do you do the compromise? When do you run applications at the edge when you were in applications in the cloud or private or public? Is that in fact, a compromise and year You might have to balance it, and it might change all the time, just as you know, if you look at our traditional history off compute. He had the mainframes which were centralized, and then it became distributed, centralized, distributed. So this changes all the time and you have toe make decisions, which which brings up the issue off. I would say hybrid, I t. You know, they have the same issue. A lot of enterprises have more of a, um, hybrid I t strategy or multi cloud. Where do you run the applications? Even if you forget about the age even on, do you run an on Prem? Do you run in the public cloud? Do you move it between class service providers? Even that is a small optimization problem. It's now even Matt bigger with H computer. >> Right? So the other thing that we've seen time and time again a huge trend, right? It's software to find, um, we've seen it in the networking space to compete based. It's offered to find us such a big write such a big deal now and you've seen that. So when you look at it from a test a measurement and when people are building out these devices, you know, obviously aton of great functional capability is suddenly available to people, but in terms of challenges and in terms of what you're thinking about in software defined from from you guys, because you're testing and measuring all this stuff, what's the goodness with the badness house for people, you really think about the challenges of software defined to take advantage of the tremendous opportunity. >> That's a really good point. I would say that with so far defined it working What we're really seeing is this aggregation typically had these monolithic devices that you would purchase from one vendor. That wonder vendor would guarantee that everything just works perfectly. What software defined it working, allows or has created is this desegregated model. Now you have. You can take that monolithic application and whether it's a server or a hardware infrastructure, then maybe you have a hyper visor or so software layer hardware, abstraction, layers and many, many layers. Well, if you're trying to get that toe work reliably, this means that now, in a way, the responsibility is on you to make sure that you test every all of these. Make sure that everything just works together because now we have choice. Which software packages should I install from which Bender This is always a slight differences. Which net Nick Bender should I use? If PJ smart Nick Regular Nick, you go up to the layer of what kind of ax elation should I use? D. P. D K. There's so many options you are responsible so that with S T N, you do get the advantage of opportunity off choice, just like on our servers and our PCs. But this means that you do have to test everything, make sure that everything works. So this means more testing at the device level, more testing at the service being up. So that's the predeployment stage and wants to deploy the service. Now you have to continually monitor it to make sure that it's working as you expected. So you get more choice, more diversity. And, of course, with segregation, you can take advantage of improvements on the hardware layer of the software layer. So there's that the segregation advantage. But it means more work on test as well as monitoring. So you know there's there's always a compromise >> trade off. Yeah, so different topic is security. Um, weird Arcee. This year we're in the four scout booth at a great chat with Michael the Caesars Yo there. And he talked about, you know, you talk a little bit about increasing surface area for attack, and then, you know, we all know the statistics of how long it takes people to know that they've been reach its center center. But Mike is funny. He you know, they have very simple sales pitch. They basically put their sniffer on your network and tell you that you got eight times more devices on the network than you thought. Because people are connecting all right, all types of things. So when you look at, you know, kind of monitoring test, especially with these increased surface area of all these, Iet devices, especially with bring your own devices. And it's funny, the H v A c seemed to be a really great place for bad guys to get in. And I heard the other day a casino at a casino, uh, connected thermometer in a fish tank in the lobby was the access point. How is just kind of changing your guys world, you know, how do you think about security? Because it seems like in the end, everyone seems to be getting he breached at some point in time. So it's almost Maur. How fast can you catch it? How do you minimize the damage? How do you take care of it versus this assumption that you can stop the reaches? You >> know, that was a really good point that you mentioned at the end, which is it's just better to assume that you will be breached at some point. And how quickly can you detect that? Because, on average, I think, according to research, it takes enterprise about six months. Of course, they're enterprise that are takes about a couple of years before they realize. And, you know, we hear this on the news about millions of records exposed billions of dollars of market cap loss. Four. Scout. It's a very close take partner, and we typically use deploy solutions together with these technology partners, whether it's a PM in P. M. But very importantly, security, and if you think about it, there's terabytes of data in the network. Typically, many of these tools look at the packet data, but you can't really just take those terabytes of data and just through it at all the tools, it just becomes a financially impossible toe provide security and deploy such tools in a very large network. So where this is where we come in and we were the taps, we access the data where the package workers was essentially groom it, filtering down to maybe tens or hundreds of gigs that that's really, really important. And then we feed it, feed it to our take partners such as Four Scout and many of the others. That way they can. They can focus on providing security by looking at the packets that really matter. For example, you know some some solutions only. Look, I need to look at the package header. You don't really need to see the send the payload. So if somebody is streaming Netflix or YouTube, maybe you just need to send the first mega byte of data not the whole hundreds of gigs over that to our video, so that allows them to. It allows us or helps us increase the efficiency of that tool. So the end customer can actually get a good R Y on that on that investment, and it allows for Scott to really look at or any of the tech partners to look at what's really important let me do a better job of investigating. Hey, have I been hacked? And of course, it has to be state full, meaning that it's not just looking at flow on one data flow on one side, looking at the whole communication. So you can understand What is this? A malicious application that is now done downloading other malicious applications and infiltrating my system? Is that a DDOS attack? Is it a hack? It's, Ah, there's a hole, equal system off attacks. And that's where we have so many companies in this in this space, many startups. >> It's interesting We had Tom Siebel on a little while ago actually had a W s event and his his explanation of what big data means is that there's no sampling air. And we often hear that, you know, we used to kind of prior to big day, two days we would take a sample of data after the fact and then tried to to do someone understanding where now the more popular is now we have a real time streaming engines. So now we're getting all the data basically instantaneously in making decisions. But what you just bring out is you don't necessarily want all the data all the time because it could. It can overwhelm its stress to Syria. That needs to be a much better management approach to that. And as I look at some of the notes, you know, you guys were now deploying 400 gigabit. That's right, which is bananas, because it seems like only yesterday that 100 gigabyte Ethan, that was a big deal a little bit about, you know, kind of the just hard core technology changes that are impacting data centers and deployments. And as this band with goes through the ceiling, what people are physically having to do, do it. >> Sure, sure, it's amazing how it took some time to go from 1 to 10 gig and then turning into 40 gig, but that that time frame is getting shorter and shorter from 48 2 108 100 to 400. I don't even know how we're going to get to the next phase because the demand is there and the demand is coming from a number of Trans really wants five G or the preparation for five G. A lot of service providers are started to do trials and they're up to upgrading that infrastructure because five G is gonna make it easier to access state of age quickly invest amounts of data. Whenever you make something easy for the consumer, they will consume it more. So that's one aspect of it. The preparation for five GS increasing the need for band with an infrastructure overhaul. The other piece is that we're with the neutralization. We're generating more Eastern West traffic, but because we're distributed with its computing, that East West traffic can still traverse data centers and geography. So this means that it's not just contained within a server or within Iraq. It actually just go to different locations. That also means your data center into interconnect has to support 400 gig. So a lot of network of hitmen manufacturers were typically call them. Names are are releasing are about to release 400 devices. So on the test side, they use our solutions to test these devices, obviously, because they want to release it based the standards to make sure that it works on. So that's the pre deployment phase. But once these foreign jiggy devices are deployed and typically service providers, but we're start slowly starting to see large enterprises deploy it as a mention because because of visualization and computing, then the question is, how do you make sure that your 400 gig infrastructure is operating at the capacity that you want in P. M. A. P M. As well as you're providing security? So there's a pre deployment phase that we help on the test side and then post deployment monitoring face. But five G is a big one, even though we're not. Actually we haven't turned on five year service is there's tremendous investment going on. In fact, key site. The larger organization is helping with a lot of these device testing, too. So it's not just Xia but key site. It's consume a lot of all of our time just because we're having a lot of engagements on the cellphone side. Uh, you know, decide endpoint side. It's a very interesting time that we're living in because the changes are becoming more and more frequent and it's very hot, so adapt and make sure that you're leading that leading that wave. >> In preparing for this, I saw you in another video camera. Which one it was, but your quote was you know, they didn't create electricity by improving candles. Every line I'm gonna steal it. I'll give you credit. But as you look back, I mean, I don't think most people really grown to the step function. Five g, you know, and they talk about five senior fun. It's not about your phone. It says this is the first kind of network built four machines. That's right. Machine data, the speed machine data and the quantity of Mr Sheen data. As you sit back, What kind of reflectively Again? You've been in this business for a while and you look at five G. You're sitting around talking to your to your friends at a party. So maybe some family members aren't in the business. How do you How do you tell them what this means? I mean, what are people not really seeing when they're just thinking it's just gonna be a handset upgrade there, completely missing the boat? >> Yeah, I think for the for the regular consumer, they just think it's another handset. You know, I went from three G's to 40 year. I got I saw bump in speed, and, you know, uh, some handset manufacturers are actually advertising five G capable handsets. So I'm just going to be out by another cell phone behind the curtain under the hurt. There's this massive infrastructure overhaul that a lot of service providers are going through. And it's scary because I would say that a lot of them are not necessarily prepared. The investment that's pouring in is staggering. The help that they need is one area that we're trying to accommodate because the end cell towers are being replaced. The end devices are being replaced. The data centers are being upgraded. Small South sites, you know, Um, there's there's, uh how do you provide coverage? What is the killer use case? Most likely is probably gonna be manufacturing just because it's, as you said mission to make mission machine learning Well, that's your machine to mission communication. That's where the connected hospitals connected. Manufacturing will come into play, and it's just all this machine machine communication, um, generating vast amounts of data and that goes ties back to that each computing where the edge is generating the data. But you then send some of that data not all of it, but some of that data to a centralized cloud and you develop essentially machine learning algorithms, which you then push back to the edge. The edge becomes a more intelligent and we get better productivity. But it's all machine to machine communication that, you know, I would say that more of the most of the five communication is gonna be much information communication. Some small portion will be the consumers just face timing or messaging and streaming. But that's gonna be there exactly. Exactly. That's going to change. I'm of course, we'll see other changes in our day to day lives. You know, a couple of companies attempted live gaming on the cloud in the >> past. It didn't really work out just because the network latency was not there. But we'll see that, too, and was seeing some of the products coming out from the lecture of Google into the company's where they're trying to push gaming to be in the cloud. It's something that we were not really successful in the past, so those are things that I think consumers will see Maur in their day to day lives. But the bigger impact is gonna be for the for the enterprise >> or jet. Thanks for ah, for taking some time and sharing your insight. You know, you guys get to see a lot of stuff. You've been in the industry for a while. You get to test all the new equipment that they're building. So you guys have a really interesting captaincy toe watches developments. Really exciting times. >> Thank you for inviting us. Great to be here. >> All right, Easier. Jeff. Jeff, you're watching the Cube. Where? Cube studios and fellow out there. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent, 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Well, good morning. Welcome back, or good afternoon for that matter, if you're watching out on the East Coast. Good to have you have here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage here in Las Vegas. We're at the Sands Expo, Hall D to be exact, one of seven sites that are hosting the AWS re:Invent John Wallace here with Justin Warren. We're now joined by Ankur Shah, who is the vice president of Products, a public cloud security, Palo Alto Networks, and, Ankur, good to see you this morning. >> Yeah, happy to be here. >> Thank you for being with us. And Richard Wise, who is the cloud security engineer, or a cloud security engineer at Robert Half. Good morning to you, Richard. >> Good morning. >> Well, first off, let's tell us about Robert Half. So, you're a recruiting firm in a partnership with Palo Alto, but fill in a few more blanks for folks at home who might not know exactly what you do. >> Sure, we're a staffing and recruiting firm. We have offices worldwide. We have roughly 15,000 full-time employees. We also have many, many temporary employees, and, of course, we do recruiting. Many people I've met here at the conference, in fact, got their first job or one job in the past through Robert Half. And we also-- >> That's makes you a really popular guy-- >> Yes. when the show closes. >> And we also have Protiviti, our prestigious consulting arm. >> Okay, so now, about your partnership. How did you find Palo Alto, or how did Palo Alto find you? And talk about maybe that relationship, how it's developed and where it stands today. What are they doing for you? >> Sure, well, we found Palo Alto about two years ago. We're about seven years into our cloud journey, but it became very clear at a point in time that we needed to get a better handle on how we were managing and securing it. We were doing all the right things but we didn't have the visibility we needed, so we brought in Evident to do that. Also, compliance is very important to us, and the tools allowed us to ensure that we were conforming to all of the compliance standards that we needed to. >> So, maybe Ankur, you can get us in here. Explain how did this partnership get started? >> Yeah, so Robert Half is kind of prototypical customer for us at Palo Alto Networks. Customers moving to cloud. AWS is obviously one of the biggest clouds, so all our customers are migrating, a lot of their, you know, shutting down their data centers, and moving the work loads and applications to the cloud, but as they move to the cloud, they want to make sure that they have the visibility and the security controls to make sure that they are not in the news. So, that's how the partnership started. A lot of customers, just like Robert Half, starts with kind of, you know, I'd like to get a visibility into what's happening in my cloud environment, detect advance data breeches, like cryptojacking, stolen access keys, things of that nature, so that's how we kind of started this partnership. We've been kind of helping them kind of move more and more applications and more and more workloads in their AWS environments, and it's been a really amazing partnership. We've gotten some amazing feedback from them that has helped mature the product over the years. >> What's one of the more surprising things that you've noticed as part of this journey. What's something that you didn't realize that this was going to be a benefit to this partnership, and then, once you actually had Palo Alto come in there, it's like, oh wow, this is amazing. >> Well, there were a couple of things. First off, their RQL, the RedLock Query Language, is very powerful and flexible, and let's us take our compliance and security to the next level, but was really impressed when we first started talking to RedLock and Palo Alto, even before we had purchased the product, we saw some opportunities for product improvements, suggested them, and before we purchased it, within a couple of weeks, they were there. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> That's pretty fast of all those cycles. I mean, that's what we're here for is rapid innovation. They're trying to change things at the speed of cloud. So, how do you do that safely and securely? Maybe you can tell us how does Palo Alto help do this rapid innovation but still keep everything really secure. >> Yeah, so our DNAs, obviously, network security is where the company started. Over a year now, the company has doubled down on public cloud security, and a lot of emphasis on, sort of, securing customers' cloud environment, helping a lot of customers migrate their applications into the cloud, and from a security standpoint, we look at it from different angles. One is kind of the basic configuration management aspects, making sure that customers don't leave open s3 buckets, permissive security groups, things of that nature. Above and beyond that, we also perform network analytics, so things like triple jacking, data exploration attempts. The platform is able to detect those kinds of advanced threats. Privileged activity monitoring, and anomaly detection is another thing we do, and last but not the least, host monitoring and host security aspects. That's something we do really, really well in the cloud as well, so when you combine all of that stuff, gives customers 360 visibility, as well as security for all things in the cloud. >> I'm sorry. Richard, how hard is your job these days? (laughing) And I mean that with all due respect. We've talked a lot about complexity. We've talked a lot about speed. We've talked a lot about versatility, and high demand, and all these things. Corner office is making demands on you, right? I mean, how tough is it to be in your shoes? >> If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. I've been working in cloud about as long as Robert Half has, about seven years, and moving into the security role, it's been an incredibly interesting challenge. Yes, it's hard. I do stay up at night on occasion worrying about, did I check this, did I check that? I'm fortunate that our management has a really good understanding of the importance of security and of cloud, and I've gotten a lot of support in my role there so, in that respect, it hasn't been too hard. >> And where is it that security, in terms of a deployment? So, you think about function, right, right? >> Yeah. >> What are we going to get done here? But is it a close second, is it a tie? Because, especially in your business, I mean, you have a lot of personal information with which you're working that you've got to protect. >> Absolutely, so, people trust us with their data. We have personal information for many, many people, and we take very seriously our responsibility to manage and protect that. One of the things that we've done with Palo Alto's tools is ensuring that we're compliant with all of the various standards like ISO 27001, and compliance is kind of like brushing your teeth, right. Everybody needs to do it, and somebody doesn't want to be friends with somebody who doesn't brush their teeth. So, we ensure that we brush our teeth using tools like Palo Alto's. We can demonstrate to people that we're brushing our teeth. >> Right. >> With the innovation of RedLock now, we're able to take that to the next level, so we're not only brushing our teeth now, but we're also grooming our hair. >> You're technologically flossing as well, I'm sure. >> We are, we are. >> So, Ankur, I think that makes you the dentist of cloud security. (laughing) >> So, you've got people brushing their teeth, they're flossing. What comes next? What should they be looking at? Should they be going beyond just hygiene factors, and is there something they can do that's more than just brushing their teeth? >> Yeah, so I touched upon some of those areas. So, I think it all starts with the basic hygiene that we've talked about it, right. So, you got to do it. That's the, kind of, the fundamental, but the next-gen attacks are not going to be very simple, right, because the cloud fundamentally increases the attack factor, right, so the malicious actor, they're smarter, right. So, like I mentioned, things like cryptojacking, stolen access keys, a lot of the next-gen breeches are going to happen in the cloud, so customers have to constantly understand the kind of AWS services that they're adopting, understand the security implications, make sure they have the security guard rails, and like I mentioned, that once they understand that, look at it more holistically, both from, sort of, the basic hygiene perspective, as well as from network security, user activity, as well host monitoring perspective. Once they cover all of that stuff, you know, hopefully they'll have good teeth forever. (laughing) >> Strong cloud teeth. I don't think that's a phrase I wouldn't have thought I'd say until today. >> You know, we hear a lot about the cat and mouse game in security, right? You're trying to stay one step ahead of bad actors who are spending a lot of time, and a lot of resources, and a lot of energy to stay a step ahead of you. So, in today's world, how do you really win that battle? How do you predict where the next wrong turn is going to come, if you will, or where that invasion's going to try to occur, and prevent that, or are you in a prophylactic state all the time where it's about seeing where that action's going, and then trying to stop it once you've learned of it? See what I mean? It's a conundrum that I think you find yourself in. >> You know, I think 90% of the problems that happen where bad actors get hold of your sensitive data is because of common, silly mistakes. So, making sure that there is a user training across the board, not just security teams. Now, DevOps teams have to be part of the equation as well. They need to be trained, and coached, and understanding the security implications of their day-to-day operations. Once you train the users, you'll find that a lot of these problems will go away because most of these actors are using simple techniques to get into the customer's cloud environment because those mistakes are being made. So, start with the user training. Obviously, you need third party tooling and technologies like Palo Alto Networks to make sure you have that security guard rails all the time. Beyond that, you know, you just have to hire a lot of smart people like Richard just to insure that you're ahead of the game, thinking two steps in advance, yeah. >> It's about locking the door. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and I want to touch on a couple of the things that Ankur said. He talked about building security into DevOps. So, there's this concept we call shifting left where you're trying to build security more upfront into the development and deployment process before you even get into the wild, and that's something Palo Alto is helping us with. The other thing is, we cannot hire enough people to keep up with the pace at which we're scaling our cloud environments, so we need tooling and automation like RedLock in order to ensure that we can get visibility and control on this vast set of resources with just a small number of people. >> Yeah. >> So necessity driving invention in that case, right? >> Yes. >> You need it. Well, gentlemen, thanks for the time. We appreciate the conversation. I feel like I need to go brush or floss. (laughing) >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Very self-conscious all of a sudden, but thank you both. >> Thanks for having us. >> Brilliant discussion. Back with more from AWS re:Invent. You're watching theCUBE here in Las Vegas. (energetic electronic music)

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering PagerDuty Summit '18, now here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit 2018 at the Westin St. Francis in Union Square, San Francisco. Been here all day, a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz, some great keynotes including Ray Kurzweil checking in, which was really a cool thing. We're excited to have our next guest, she's Rachel Obstler, she's a VP of products for PagerDuty. She's the one responsible for delivering all this fun new, fun new toys, right? >> Did it all on my own. (laughs) >> All on your own, so Rachel, great to see you. >> Nice to see you, too, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so great event, we were talking, you know, our second year. Last year was cool, it was kind of out by the water, but this is, you know, another kind of historic, classic San Francisco venue. We're surrounded by all the gilding and everything else-- >> Yes. >> Tech companies with all their displays. >> Yeah, there are not a lot of spaces that are big enough to do an event like this-- >> Right. >> In San Francisco proper unless you're going full-on Moscone Center, so... (chuckles) >> You'll be there soon enough, I think. >> Maybe. (laughs) >> So, let's get into it, you announced a bunch of new products here over the last couple days, so what did, let's go through some of those announcements. >> Sure, so we announced two new products. One of them is PagerDuty Visibility, and PagerDuty Visibility is really designed for the person that we call the bow-tie knot in the organization. >> The bow-tie knot. >> The bow-tie knot, so you know, you have a bow-tie, a bow-tie and there's a little knot in the middle-- >> Right. >> So, the bow-tie knot is usually an engineering leader, it's someone who when there's a problem happening, an incident going on, that they're kind of coordinating between keeping track of what's going on on the ground with the responders actually trying to fix it, and telling all the stakeholders what is going on, because stakeholders don't understand things like the server XXX has some problem, right? >> Right, right. >> But at the same time you don't want those executives getting on a call and disrupting the responders who are actually busy working on the issue. >> Right, right. >> So, that person in the bow-tie knot has a lot of manual work to do to make sure they're translating constantly between what's going on and what the executives need to know, and they need to know because if there's an issue with a customer application you want to get in front of it. You want to be able to proactively tell your support team if tickets come in this is what you say. >> Right. >> You want to maybe even send an email to your customers, "We know there's an issue." Update your status page, "We're working on it." You know, tell them as much as you can. It gives them confidence that it's being taken care of. >> Right, so this gives them kind of the God view of all the things that the team is working on in terms of getting resolution to that problem. >> Yeah, it ties the technical services, which are the things that are jargon and gobbledygook, except for the people working on them-- >> Right. >> To what are business services, which are those customer applications that the executives understand and the customers understand, so with that tie you know when a technical service is impacting a customer application, which one it's impacting, and you can also let the right people know who are responsible for that customer application, what they need to know so they can let the customers know. >> Right, so what happened before without having kind of a central place to manage that communication and that visibility? >> That bow-tie knot person did this all manually. >> Just running around gathering facts and figures-- >> Yep. >> And status and updates-- >> Yep, and then-- >> From various points on the compass. >> And then fielding phone calls with people, yelling at them-- >> Right, right. >> And it's a very painful, you know, we talked to a lot of customers. It's a very painful position to be in. >> Right, well that's a good one, and then you have another one, PagerDuty Analytics. >> Yes, so PagerDuty Analytics is really a product more used during peacetime, so Visibility's used during wartime to make sure responders know which customer applications are being impacted, but during peacetime there's a number of operational analytics that you want to know about all the realtime work that you're doing. So, some examples are I had a set of engineers that were on call last week, was it a bad on call? How many times were they woken in the middle of the night, do I need to give someone a day off? Right, so to make sure you manage the health of your team. You may also want to know which of my technical services is causing the most pain for the business, so that might be a monthly or quarterly report, doing like a quarterly business review. So, which technical services do I need to invest in because even a technical service that may not be down that much, if it's impacting multiple critical customer applications it could be causing your business a lot of money. >> Right, right. >> You also may want to know what's your total time that you're spending resolving issues, right? So, how many hours are across all your employees? Are you spending, just reacting to realtime issues that may happen and is that too much? >> Right, and if you can't measure it you can't manage it, right? >> Exactly. >> And it's funny because pulling from Jen's keynote earlier today, I think she talked about, the number was 3.6 billion incidents that have gone through the system just in year-to-date 2018. >> Yep. >> So, the scale is massive. >> Yep. >> But you guys are bringing some artificial intelligence, you're bringing some machine learning to bear because you have to, right? >> That's right. >> This gets way beyond the scope of a person being able to really prioritize and figure out what's a signal, what's a noise, what do they have to really focus on. >> That's exactly right, so in June we launched a product called Event Intelligence, and what it does is it takes in all those signals that PagerDuty takes into the system and then it makes sense of them. So, it says, "Well, these things are related, "let's group them together," so as each new signal comes in it won't create a new incident that someone then needs to run down. It will put it in the existing incident, so the responder keeps getting all the context they need about the incident, but they don't keep getting notified while they're trying to concentrate and fix something. >> (chuckles) They must love you guys, they must love you guys. (laughs) So, then the other piece I found interesting and I think some might find a little confusing is all the number of integrations you guys have-- >> Mm-hm. >> With so many different kind of workflow management and monitoring and a lot of things. How does that work, how does that kind of... I would imagine there's some, you know, competition, cooperation with all these different applications, but as Jen said earlier today if that's what the customer wants that's what you guys got to deliver. >> That's right, and you know, this is a complex ecosystem, there are a lot of different tools in the ecosystem. Naturally, as companies get bigger there will be areas of overlap, but we very strongly believe in an open ecosystem. We want to interoperate with every product that's out there, so we do have a lot of different integrations. We have a lot of integrations with companies where we take data in, so monitoring data that tells you, "Hey, your server's down," or whatever else it is-- >> Right. >> But we also have a lot of integrations with, like, ticketing tools, tools that will, or a customer file's a ticket, so that, you know, you can have the information, this is what's going on in the engineering side right now so the customer support team can stay informed. >> Right. >> And also managing through workflow, a lot of companies use like an ITSM tool to manage through workflows, so integrating with them, integrating with chat tools. We integrate with Slack, you know, so there's a lot of different integrations because you want to make sure that resolving an incident is the smoothest, easiest process it can possibly be because it's stressful enough already. >> Right, right, so a lot of stuff going on here. So, as you look forward don't, you know, congratulations on getting a couple of products out today, but what are some of your priorities as you kind of look at the roadmap, you know, kind of where you guys have things covered. Where do you see some new opportunities to take, you know, some of the tools that you guys have built? >> Yeah, we see a big opportunity in that world of Event Intelligence, so we already have a product but we're going to continue to add more capabilities to it and continue to take advantage of the data in our platform. So, surfacing that data in more intelligent ways through Event Intelligence could also be through Analytics, so for instance, you know, we today can group things together intelligently, we can show you similar incidents, right? This incident looked like something that happened in the past. Well, next maybe we can say, "This looks like something that happened in the past, "and oh, gee, that got really bad. "You might want to pay special attention "because this one may get bad, too." >> Right. >> So, starting to get more predictive, really making sense of all the data that you have from the past history, our 10,500 customers over nine years. It's a lot of data that we can use to help people get more and more efficient with their realtime work. >> Right, and is there an opportunity to kind of use cross-customer data, not, you know, obviously you've got to anonymize it and all those types of issues, but clearly, you know, there's stuff that has happened to other companies that I could probably, you know, benefit in knowing that information around some, you know, some common attributes either around a particular type of infrastructure configuration or whatever. So, have you started to pull that and bake that back into some of the recommendations or... >> Yeah, so one area that we do have available as some data today is benchmarking, so without, as you said, sharing any specific customer data it's very helpful for customers to understand first of all how their individual teams are performing versus their teams, but then also how their teams are performing against the industry. >> Right. >> So, are we fast at responding to incidents? What does best in class look like? How quickly could you actually mobilize a response to a major incident? This is like great data for our customers to have as they move forward in their digital transformation. >> Right, hugely, hugely important. >> Mm-hm. >> So, last word, you said you've, you know, you're relatively new to the company but you're a wily old veteran because you guys are growing so fast. (laughs) Just love to get your impressions. It's your second PagerDuty Summit, you know, kind of the vibe, I think Jen's got a really, very positive and very specific kind of a leadership style. >> Mm-hm. >> Just share your impressions with the show and what's going on inside of PagerDuty. >> It's been great, I've loved every moment that I've worked there. I feel like we're doing things that are really innovative and we're always pushing the envelope trying to go faster and faster, so I'm really excited for the next year. >> Good. >> Can't wait to see what the next Summit looks like. (laughs) >> Yeah, what it's going to look like. Yeah, probably be like 2,000-- >> We're not even done with this one yet. (laughs) >> 2,000 people, I'm sure, all right. Yeah, but the Advanced Planning Committee's already taking notes, right? >> Yeah, right. (laughs) >> All right, well Rachel, thank you for taking a few minutes and congratulations on your product release. I'm sure there were many sleepless nights over the last several months to get that stuff out. >> Thank you, Jeff, great to be here. >> All right, she's Rachel, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, we're at PagerDuty Summit in San Francisco, thanks for watching. (techy music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next, 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi this is Peter Burris from Wikibon SiliconANGLE, stepping in for John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Continuing our CUBE coverage here at Google Next 2018 from Moscone South, an impressive array of talent, and that includes my next guest, Jon Thomas. Jon is the director of Product Management for Digital Services Management Cloud Services at BMC Software. Welcome to theCUBE, Jon. >> Thank you for having me. >> You know this is a really an interesting topic for me, because as an old infrastructure hack, someone who's been in IT operations in a couple different worlds, as well as being an Industry Analyst in infrastructure, it's important that we not lose sight of the fact that there's a lot of expertise out there regarding how we run complex systems, that the Cloud companies are demonstrating, but the business as an adopt Cloud services, nonetheless, has to sustain. So talk to us a little bit about what BMC is doing to try to bring some of that knowledge over 30 years of working in the data center, and apply it for businesses as they become better Cloud citizens. >> Yeah, thank you for asking. So, BMC is worked with some of the largest IT organizations. In fact, over 80% of the Fortune 500 use BMC software to help them manage IT. At this point when I go out and talk to those customers, they're all on a Cloud journey. And the really exciting thing is that the conversations stop becoming if we're going to use public cloud, but it's going to be a how to use public cloud, and really at this point, it's about how do we use it in a way that we can scale that out, scale that innovation out within the organization. And we're seeing that those organizations are actually, in a lot of times, they're reorganizing in order to really facilitate that innovation. And so BMC, like you said, is taking that expertise that we've had and helping them manage the data center asset, and to apply the same learnings that we had with a new spin to actually work with the public cloud as they start to adopt public cloud. >> So, give us an example of a few of the more modern approaches in the cloud that are being employed by BMC to ensure that you get the type of control, manageability, and automation, that BMC customers have gotten used to on-premise. >> Yeah, I mean, one great example is for a very long time BMC has had the BladeLogic Product Line, and we've helped customers to make sure that they can harden their servers and their network devices and their databases on premise. Now as they move the public cloud, there's a big question, what does it mean to even harden a public cloud configuration? And a lot of organizations are trying to understand what is their responsibility in that shared responsibility model. And so one thing that we've done is take that knowledge about hardening assets and apply it to public cloud resources, and also just in the way that we do it. You know if you think about traditionally, IT's gotten a bad rap as being Captain No, and now with the public cloud and the ability of application teams that go directly to the public cloud, IT has to just change the way that it's providing its services to their consumers, their internal consumers. So, now instead of putting a big block in the process, instead we're enabling IT to provide services. Because application teams, they don't want to be insecure. They're not out there nefariously trying to break things and leave data out there. >> They may sometimes not know when they're not being secure. >> Exactly, and so IT's new and changing role is about how do you provide services and consultation to your business to be a facilitator. And so with the products that we're offering now, we think we've taken that history, and that legacy, and our heritage, and hardening in that data center, and then applying that same model to the public cloud, but in a model that fits for how you leverage public cloud resources. >> I presume that a customer that decides to go with, say, Google or Google Cloud-- >> Yeah. >> Or decides to go with Amazon or AWS, is going to use your product and exploit the best or the capabilities of both clouds. as they are uniquely provided, is that accurate? >> Absolutely. Yeah when we talk to our customers, very few of them have the luxury of only using one public cloud vendor. Whether it's based off of decisions from application teams or even acquisitions, a lot of times they have to manage across multiple clouds on top of all of that on-premise infrastructure that they still have to manage. And so we do, we try to help to simplify that complexity for them by bringing it all together into one visibility, into what is the state of the risk of their cloud services. >> But to employ, or to be able to exploit the best that each of those platforms has, while at the same time from an overall manageability standpoint, being able to provide a common view to those different resources, have I got that right? >> Exactly, exactly. >> Now, how does that tie back in to the data center? One of the things that we've seen over the course of the last week is something that Wikibon has been calling it your private cloud. The idea that there are going to be circumstances when an enterprise's data requires that you move the cloud to the data, as opposed to moving the data to the cloud. >> Yeah. >> And there's no doubt there's going to be a lot of data that's going to, for any number of physical, legal, election property control reasons, will be on-premise, or within the confines of the business. So, how do you envision that the practices and tooling and automation regimes that are currently on-premise, and what we're doing now on the cloud are going to start together, come together over the next few years. So we can put data where it naturally should be. >> Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. It's just, some of the tools and some of the reasons that we're able to help our customers on their cloud journey is because we have that knowledge of their on-premise infrastructure. So being able to do things like discover what they have on-prem, and understand the dependencies, helps us to be really uniquely positioned to help them with cloud migration. And migration might not be just from on-premise to cloud, it could be from cloud back to on-premise, it could be between clouds or even between different regions based off of the need of the business at that time. >> So that's migration, what about overall classes of integration that might allow a DevOps person, for example, to be able to look at an application that spans multiple places, or multiple locations, but still be able to administrate as a coherent resource? >> Yeah, so in that same discovery capabilities that we have, we've extended those out to the public cloud as well, so we can discover on-premise, in the public cloud, so that whenever you need it, you can go to a single place and understand what's the state of your infrastructure, no matter where it exists. >> So what do you think of Google Next? Are you having good conversations with customers? Do you see Google Cloud coming on more? And how does BMC going to make it easier for everybody? >> Absolutely, we're really excited by the progress that Google Cloud is making and we're seeing a lot of adoption in particular certain segments of our businesses are really, really fond of Google Cloud. And what we're doing is trying to make sure that from the tools that we have that we're integrating into Google Cloud, so that it gives our customers that choice to pick what's the right cloud for them at the right time and for the right circumstances, and then still get that simplification by putting it all into the same tool where they can get in the single view. >> Now every company has a challenge as they migrate to the cloud, both from a standpoint of where the applications are being developed, where the applications are being run. But also, strategically, the cloud has a pretty significant impact. BMC seems to be one of those companies that's able to partly, I would presume in large measure, because of 30 years of really working with the customers is having a relatively facile time enacting that transformation. Give us a sense, especially in the Product Management Committee, thinking about how BMC's going to provide value in the cloud. What is BMC think the future of cloud and cloud management looks like? >> Well, we see it's evolving. Right now a lot of organizations are creating centralized Cloud Centers of Excellence just to figure out how, like I said, to scale out best practices within their organization. And right now, those teams really have a couple of areas of focus. Number one is the migration, so figuring out how to do their migration projects. Number two is how do we do security of those resources, so being able to understand what's their risk posture, and set up some governance around that, we say a cloud with guard rails. And the last thing is last year was really a time of customers coming to us because they had 10 ex-million dollar surprise builds. And so one of the things that we want to do to help facilitate the use of public cloud, because we believe that it can be as safe or safer, as efficient or more efficient, is to take away those concerns that would keep a company from feeling like they're able to migrate more workloads to the cloud, or build more applications to the cloud. >> So, Jon, I'm going to do kind of a lightning round here. >> Alright. >> I'm going to put something in front of you and I want you to respond as best as you can from a standpoint of how the value proposition's going to play out. Let's start with speed to value. How does the tooling that you're providing improve speed to value, especially to those companies that are looking for greater flexibility than strategies? >> Well, speed to value, one of the biggest things is in order to have real data up in the public cloud, organizations just need to understand what is their risk posture, make sure that those services that they're creating are hardened. And so with our true side cloud security product, we're able to give them that visibility so that they can get the check mark to move quickly to go to market with the solutions they're creating in the public cloud. >> The second thing, modern application development, containers, Kubernetes, those types of things. >> Yeah, absolutely. In the same platform that we support the public cloud, it's really all new modern innovations. So we also support Kubernetes, and Docker as well, so you bring that all into the same platform and the same visibility. >> Big data, advanced analytics, and AI. >> So as companies want to leverage AI, that's one of the examples where they're trying to figure out as they do it, what are their costs going to do? New services, we've heard stories where people turn on a brand new service and then find out that that service costs them a lot of money. And so with some of our expense management for a cloud tools, we're able to do baselines of their spending and start to forecast out, identify when you have something that is going to come and surprise you later on. >> Can't talk about cloud without talking security. >> Absolutely. Yeah, so through true side cloud security, we're helping organizations to not only identify where they might have a risky configurations that might leave them open to data breaches, but also built in automated remediation so that you can take action, and to bring yourself to a very safe place. >> One of the big challenges of the cloud on a global basis is privacy, trust, local. How does GDPR fit into this mix, for example? >> Well, one of the requirements that GDPR is really to have state of the art, that's what they say. And so you have to have state of the art controls in place. So with our solution, especially just like cloud security, that allows organizations to be able to not only have state of the art prosthesis in place and tools to access their risk, but to also prove it. And I think that's a big aspect. >> IoT. >> IoT is also something that's coming up a lot in our customer base, so being able to manage those same cloud resources in terms of the cost of the resources and the security as well. >> Serverless? >> Yeah, Serverless. In fact, internally when we developed our application, we used a lot of Serverless. So we love cloud native artifacts, we believe that they really can help application teams to develop applications quicker. And so one of the things that we provide is the ability to look at hardening of applications built on cloud native resources. >> Now you've already mentioned cost, but what's it cost to? How do you use the tooling to get the most out of your expenditures in the cloud? >> So, first off we give you the visibility in to what you're spending, and then run that through machine learning to search and do forecasting to help you identify when you're going to overrun your cost, but the second part of that is to actually look at optimization. So we're examining out your accounts to understand, do you have idle VM's that are out there? Do you have ones that were over revision? Different ways that we can help bring down your cost to make it sure that your maximizing your cost in the public cloud. >> Okay, so, the next two years at BMC, going to continue to drive its affinity with these new cloud-based workloads. What are you most excited about as you look out at working with customers over the next couple of years? >> Really looking at the adoption going bigger. And, right now, and they talked about it in The Keynote this morning, the number of workloads in the public cloud, it is still relatively small to what they have on-premise. And so we believe that as organizations start to do hardware refreshes, starts to do data center consolidation projects, they're going to start looking into public cloud more and more, and we're going to see more and more resources making their way to the public cloud, and we find that very exciting. >> A wide opportunity for thought leadership, isn't there Jon? >> Absolutely. >> Alright, Jon Thomas, who's been crucial to driving a lot of the product management efforts around some of BMC's cloud management software. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE, Jon. >> Thanks for having me. >> Okay, we'll be right back with more coverage from Google Next, thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering Veritas Vision 2017. Brought to you by Veritas. >> Welcome back to the Aria in Las Vegas, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. We're here at Veritas Vision 2017, #VtasVision. Jyothi Swaroop is here. He's the vice president of product and solutions marketing at Veritas. Jyothi, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thanks, Dave. I'm an officially an alum, now? >> A CUBE alum, absolutely! >> Two times! Three more times, we'll give you a little VIP badge, you know, we give you the smoking jacket, all that kind of stuff. >> Five or six times, you'll be doing the interviews. >> I'm going to be following you guys around, then, for the next three events. >> So, good keynote this morning. >> Jyothi: Thank you. >> Meaty. There was a lot going on. Wasn't just high-level concepts, it was a lot of high-level messaging, but then, here's what we've done behind it. >> No, it's actually the opposite. It's a lot of real products that customers are using. The world forgets that Veritas has only been out of Symantec, what, 20 months? Since we got out, we were kind of quiet the first year. That was because we were figuring our strategy out, investing in innovation and engineering, 'cause that's what Carlyle, our board, wants for us to do is invest in innovation and engineering, and build real products. So we took our time, 18 to 20 months to build these products out, and we launched them. And they're catching on like wildfire in the customer base. >> Jyothi, Bill came on and talked about, he made a lot of changes in the company. Focused it on culture, innovation, something he's want. What brought you? You know, a lot of places you could've gone. Why Veritas, why now? >> Well, Bill is one of the reasons, actually. I mean, if you look at his history and what he's done with different companies over the years, and how the journey of IT, as he put it during his keynote, he wants to make that disruption happen again at Veritas. That was one. Two was just the strategy that they had. Veritas has a Switzerland approach to doing business. Look, it's granted that most Fortune 500 or even midmarket customers have some sort of a Cloud project going on. But what intrigued me the most, especially with my background, coming from other larger companies is, Veritas was not looking to tie them down or become a data hoarder, you know what I mean? It's just charge this massive dollar per terabyte and just keep holding them, lock them into a storage or lock them into a cloud technology. But, we were facilitating their journey to whichever cloud they wanted to go. It was refreshing, and I still remember the first interview with Veritas, and they were talking about, "Oh, we want to help move customers' data "into Azure and AWS and Google," and my brain from previous storage vendors is going, "Hang on a minute. "How are you going to make money "if you're just going to move all of this data "to everyone else?" But that's what is right for the customer. >> Okay, so, how are you going to make money? >> Well, it's not just about the destination, right? Cloud's a journey, it's not just a destination. Most customers are asking us, "On average, we adopt three clouds," is what they're telling us. Whether it's public, private, on-prem, on average, they have about three separate clouds. What they say is, "Jyothi, our struggle is to move "an entire virtual business service "from on-prem to the Cloud." And once we've moved it, let's say Cloud A is suddenly expensive or is not working out for them. To get out of that cloud and move it to Cloud B is just so painful. It's going to cost me tons of money, and I lost all of the agility that I was expecting from Cloud A, anyway. If you have products like VRP from Veritas, for example, where we could move an entire cloud business service from Cloud A to Cloud B, and guess what. We can move it back onto on-prem on the fly. That's brilliant for the customers. Complete portability. >> Let's see. The portfolio is large. Help us boil it down. How should we think about it at a high level? We only have 20 minutes, so how do we think about that in 15, 20 minutes? >> I'll focus on three tenets. Our 360 data management wheel, if you saw at the keynote, has six tenets. The three tenets I'll focus on today are visibility, portability, and last, but definitely not the least, storage. You want to store it efficiently and cost-effectively. Visibility, most of our customers that are getting on their cloud journey are already in the Cloud, somewhere. They have zero visibility, almost. Like, "What applications should I move into the Cloud? "If I have moved these applications, "are they giving me the right value? "Because I've invested heavily in the Cloud "to move these applications." They don't know. 52% of our customers have dark data. We've surveyed them. All that dark data has now been moved into some cloud. Look, cloud is awesome. We have partnered up with every cloud vendor out there. But if we're not making it easy for customers to identify what is the right data to move to the Cloud, then they lost half the battle even before they moved to the Cloud. That's one. We're giving complete visibility with the Info Map connectors that we just announced earlier on in the keynote. >> That's matching the workload characteristics with the right sort of platform characteristics, is that right? >> Absolutely. You could be a Vmware user, you're only interested in VM-based data that you want to move, and you want role-based access into that data, and you want to protect only that data and back it up into the Cloud. We give you that granularity. It's one thing to provide visibility. It's quite another to give them the ability to have policy-driven actions on that data. >> Jyothi, just take us inside the customers for that. Who owns this kind of initiative? The problem in IT, it's very heterogeneous, very siloed. You take that multi-cloud environment, most customers we talk to, if they've got a cloud strategy, the ink's still drying. It's usually because, well, that group needed this, and somebody needed this, and it's very tactical. So, how do I focus on the information? Who drives that kind of need for visibility and manages across all of these environments? >> That's a great question, Stu. I mean, we pondered around the same question for about a year, because we were going both top-down and bottoms-up in the customer's organization, and trying to find where's our sweet spot. What we figured is, it's not a one-strategy thing, especially with the portfolio that we have. 80% of the time, we are talking to the CIOs, we are talking to the CXOs, and we're coming down with their digital transformation strategy or their cloud transformation strategy, they may call it whatever they want. We're coming top-down with our products, because when you talk visibility, a backup admin, he may not jump out of his seat the first thing. "Visibility's not what I care about, "the ease of use of this backup job "is what I care about, day one." But if you talk to the CIO, and I tell him, "I'll give you end-to-end visibility "of your entire infrastructure. "I don't care which cloud you're in." He'll be like, "I'm interested in that, "'cause I may not want to move 40% of this data "that I'm moving to Cloud A today. "I want to keep it back, or just delete it." 'Cause GDPR in Europe gives the citizens the right to delete their data. Doesn't matter which company the data's present in. The citizen can go to that company and say, "You have to delete my data." How will you delete the data if you just don't know where the data is? >> It's in 20 places in 15 different databases. Okay, so that's one. You had said there were three areas that you wanted to explore. >> The second one is, again, all about workload data and application portability. Over the years, we had storage lock-ins. I'm not going to name names, but historically, there are lots of storage vendors that tend to lock customers into a particular type of storage, or to the company, and they just get caught up in that stacked refresh every three years, and you just keep doing that over and over again. We're seeing more and more of cloud lock-in start to happen. You start migrating all of this into one cloud service provider, and you get familiar with the tools and widgets that they give you around that data, and then all of a sudden you realize this is not the right fit, or I'm moving too much data into this place and it's costing me a lot more. I want to not do this anymore, I want to move it to another local service provider, for example. It's going to cost you twice as much as it did just to move the data into the Cloud in the first place. With VRP, Veritas Resiliency Platform, we give our customers literally a few mouse clicks, if you watched the demo onstage. Literally, with a few mouse clicks, you identify the data that you want to move, including your virtual machines and your applications, and you move them as a business service, not just as random data. You move it as an entire business service from Cloud A to Cloud B. >> Jyothi, there's still physics involved in this. There's many reasons why with lock-in, you mentioned, kind of familiarity. But if I have a lot of data, moving it takes a lot of time as well as the money. How do we handle that? >> It goes back to the original talk track here about visibility. If you give the customer the right amount of visibility, they know exactly what to move. If the customer has 80 petabytes of data in their infrastructure, they don't have to move all 80 petabytes of it, if we are able to tell them, "These are the 10 petabytes that you need to move, "based on what Information Map is telling you." They'll only move those 10 petabytes, so the workload comes down drastically, because they're able to visualize what they need to move. >> Stu: Third piece of storage? >> Third piece of storage. A lot of people don't know this, but Veritas was the first vendor that launched the software to find storage solution. Back in the VOS days, Veritas, Oracle, and Sun Microsystems, we had the first file system that would be this paper over rocks, if you will, that was just a software layer. It would work with literally SAN/DAS, anything that's out there in the market, it would just be that file system that would work. And we've kept that DNA in our engineering team. Like, for example, Abhijit, who leads up our engineering, he wrote the first cluster file system. We are extending that beyond just a file system. We're going file, block, and object, just as any other storage vendor would. We are certifying on various commodity hardware, so the customers can choose the hardware of their choice. And not just that. The one thing we're doing very differently, though, is embedding intelligence close to the metadata. The reason we can do that is, unlike some of the classic storage vendors, we wrote the storage ground-up. We wrote the code ground-up. We could extract, if you look at an object, it has object data and metadata. So, metadata standard, it's about this long, right? It's got all these characters in it. It's hard to make sense of it unless you buy another tool to read that object and digest it for the customer. But what if you embed intelligence next to the metadata, so storage is not dumb anymore? It's intelligent, so you avoid the number of layers before you actually get to a BI product. I'll just give you a quick example in healthcare. We're all wearing Apple Watches and FitBits. The data is getting streamed into some object store, whether it's in the Cloud or on-prem. Billions of objects are getting stored even right now, with all the Apple Watches and FitBits out there. What if the storage could predictively, using machine learning and intelligence, tell you predictively you might be experiencing a stroke right on your watch, because your heartbeats are X and your pulse is Y? Combining all of the data and your history, based on the last month or last three months, I can tell you, "Jyothi, you should probably go see the doctor "or do something about it." So that's predictive, and it can happen at the storage layer. It doesn't have to be this other superficial intelligence layer that you paid millions of dollars for. >> So that analytic capability is really a feature of your platform, right? I mean, others, Stu, have tried it, and they tried to make it the product, and it really isn't a product, it's a byproduct. And so, is that something I could buy today? Is that something that's sort of roadmap, or, what's the reaction been from customers? >> The reaction has been great, both customers and analysts have just loved where we're going with this. Obviously, we have two products that are on the truck today, which are InfoScale and Access. InfoScale is a block-based product and Access is a file-based product. We also have HyperScale, which was designed specifically for modern workloads, containers, and OpenStack. That has its own roadmap. You know how OpenStack and containers work. We have to think like a developer for those products. Those are the products that are on the truck today. What you'll see announced tomorrow, I hope I'm not giving away too much, because Mike already announced it, is Veritas Cloud Storage. That's going to be announced tomorrow, and we're going to go deep into that. Veritas Cloud Storage will be this on-prem, object-based storage which will eventually become a platform that will also support file and block. It's just one single, software-defined, highly-intelligent storage system for all use cases. Throw whatever data you want at it. >> And the line on Veritas, the billboards, no hardware agenda. Ironic where that came from. Sometimes you'll announce appliances. What is that all about, and when do you decide to do that? >> Great question. You know, it's all about choice. It's the cliched thing to say, I know, but Veritas, most people don't know this, has a heavy channel revenue element to what we do. We love our partners and channel. Now, if you go to the channel that's catering to midmarket customers, or SMBs, they just want the easy button to storage. Their agility, I don't have five people sitting around trying to piece all of this together with your software and Seagate's hardware and whatever else, and piece this together. I just want a box, a pizza box that I can put in my infrastructure, turn it on, and it just works, and I call Veritas if something goes wrong. I don't call three different people. This is for those people. Those customers that just want the easy button to storage or easy button to back up. >> To follow up on the flip side, when you're only selling software, the knock on software of course is, I want it to be fast, I want it to be simple, I need to be agile. How come Veritas can deliver these kinds of solutions and not be behind all the people that have all the hardware and it's all fully baked-in to start with? >> Well, that's because we've written these from the ground up. When you write software code from the ground up, I mean, I'm an engineer, and I know how hard it is to take a piece of legacy code that's baked in for 10, 20 years. It's almost like adding lipstick, right? It just doesn't work, especially in today's cloud-first world, where people are in the DevOps situation, where apps are being delivered in five, 10, 15 minutes. Every day, my app almost gets updated on the phone every day? That just doesn't work. We wrote these systems from the ground up to be able to easily be placed onto any hardware possible. Now, again, I won't mention the vendor, but in my previous lives, there were a lot of hardware boxes and the software was written specifically for those hardware configurations. When they tried to software-define it forcefully, it became a huge challenge, 'cause it was never designed to do that. Whereas at Veritas, we write the software layer first. We test it on multiple hardware systems, and we keep fine-tuning it. Our ideal situation is to sell the software, and if the customer wants the hardware, we'll ship them the box. >> One of the things that struck me in the keynote this morning was what I'll call your compatibility matrix. Whether it was cloud, somebody's data store, that really is your focus, and that is a differentiator, I think. Knocking those down so you can, basically, it's a TAM expansion strategy. >> Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, TAM expansion strategy, as well as helping the customer choose what's best for them. We're not limiting their choices. We're literally saying, we go from the box and dropboxes of the world all the way to Dell EMC, even, with Info Map, for example. We'll cover end-to-end spectrum because we don't have a dollar-per-terabyte or dollar-per-petabyte agenda to store this data within our own cloud situation. >> All right, Jyothi, we got to leave it there. Thanks very much for coming back on theCUBE. It's good to see you again. >> Jyothi: No, it's great to be here. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. We're live from Veritas Vision 2017. This is theCUBE. (fast electronic music)