>> It's The Cube covering Fortinet Security Summit brought to you by Fortinet. >> Hey and welcome back to the cubes coverage of Fortinets championship series. Cybersecurity summit here in Napa valley Fortinet is sponsoring the PGA tour event, kicking off the season here, and the cubes here as part of the coverage. And today is cybersecurity day where they bring their top customers in. We got Glenn Katz SVP, general manager, Comcast Enterprise Solutions. Glenn, thanks for coming on The Cube. Thanks for taking time out of your day. - Thank you no This is great. This is great. >> Interviewer: Tell me to explain what you guys do in the Comcast business enterprise group. >> That's our Comcast business. We're a part of Comcast overall. I always like to explain what Comcast really is. If you look at Comcast, it's a technology innovation company by itself that happens to focus on communications and media type of, of markets, right? And if you look at the Comcast side there on the communication side, it's really everything residential with customers. Then there's the us Comcast business and we're the fastest growing entity over the last 15 years within Comcast. And we started in small business, voice, video, and data to small businesses. Then we moved up to provide fiber ethernet type of a transport to mid-market. And then my group started in 2014. And what we do is focus on managed services. It doesn't matter who the transport layer is for enterprise Fortune 1000 type companies. And then when you layer in all these managed wider network services. So that's my business unit. >> Interviewer: Well, we appreciate it we're a customer by the way in Palo Alto >> Glen: Oh great >> So give a shout out to you guys. Let's get into the talk you're giving here about cybersecurity, because I mean, right now with the pandemic, people are working at home. Obviously everyone knows the future of work is hybrid now you're going to see more decentralized defy and or virtual spaces where people are going to want to work anywhere and businesses want to have that extension, right? What people are talking about, and it's not new, but it's kind of new in the sense of reality, right? You've got to execute. This is a big challenge. >> Glen: It is - What's your thoughts on that, >> Well it's a big challenge. And one of the things that I'll try to, I'll speak to this afternoon here, which is at least from the enterprise perspective, which includes the headquarters, the enterprise, the branch locations, the digital commerce, everywhere else, commerce is being done. It's not just at a store anymore. It's everywhere. Even if you only have a store and then you have the remote worker aspect. I mean, they do that to your point earlier. We're not in that fortress sort of security mentality anymore. There's no more DMZs it's done. And so you've got to get down to the zero trust type of network architecture. And how do you put that together? And how does that work? Not just for remote workers that have to access the enterprise applications, but also for simple, you know, consumers or the business customers of these, of these enterprises that have to do business from over the phone or in the store. >> Interviewer: What are the some of the challenges you hear from your customers, obviously, business of the defend themselves now the, the, the attacks are there. There's no parameters. You mentioned no fortress. There's more edge happening, right? Like I said, people at home, what are the top challenges that you're hearing from customers? >> So the biggest challenge, and this is, I would think this is, this is mostly focused on the enterprise side of it is that the is two interesting phenomenons going on. This is sort of beginnings before the pandemic. And then of course the pandemic, the role of the CIO has been elevated to now, they have a real seat at the table. Budgets are increasing to a point, but the expertise needed in these, in these it departments for these large enterprises, it's, it's impossible to do what you were just talking about, which is create a staff of people that can do everything from enterprise applications, e-commerce analytics, the network. How do you secure that network all the way down to the end users? Right? So it's that middle portion. That's the biggest challenge because that takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. And that's where folks like Comcast can come in and help them out. That's their biggest challenge. They can handle the enterprise, they can handle the remote workers. They can handle their own applications, which are continually trying to be, you know, have to be it's competitive out there. It's that middle area, that communications layer that their challenged with. >> Interviewer: Yeah. And John Madison's EVP, CMO Ford. It's always talking about negative unemployment in cybersecurity. Nevermind just the staff that do cyber >> Glen: That's exactly right, that's given. If you're a business, you can't hire people fast enough and you might not have the budget for you want to manage service. So how do you get cyber as a service? >> Glen: Well, so it's even bigger than that. It's not just the cyber as a service because it's now a big package. That's what SASE really is SASE is Secure Access Service Edge. But think of it where I think of it is you've got remote users, remote workers, mobile apps on one side, you've got applications, enterprise or commercial that are now moved into different cloud locations. And in the middle, you've got two real fundamental layers, the network. And, and that includes uh, the actual transport, the software defined wide area, networking components, everything that goes with that, that's the network as a service. And then you've got the secure web gateway portion, which includes everything to secure all the data, going back and forth between your remote laptop, the point of sales. And let's say the cloud based applications, right? So that's really the center stage right there. >> Interviewer: And the cloud has brought more service at the top of the stack. I mean, people thought down stack up stack is kind of like a geeky terms. You're talking about innovation. If you're down stack with network and transport, those are problems that you have to solve on behalf of your customers And make that almost invisible. And that's your job >> That's our job. That's our job is to service provider What's interesting is though back in the day, I mean, when, I mean, back in the day, it could have been 10 years ago in 20. You really, you know, you had stable networks, they were ubiquitous, they were expensive and they were slow. That's kind of the MPLS legacy TDM. Yeah. So you just put them in and you walked away and you still did all your enterprise. You still did all of your applications, but you had your own private data centers. Everything was nicer. It was that fortress mentality right now. It's different. Now everybody needs broadband. Well guess what? Comcast is a big company, but we don't have broadband everywhere. ATT doesn't have it. Verizon doesn't have it Charter doesn't have it. Right. So you need, so now to think about that from enterprise, I'm going to go, I'll give you an example. All of our customers to fulfill a nationwide network, just for the broadband infrastructure, that's, you know, redundant. If you want to think of it that way we, we source probably 200 to 300 different providers to provide an ubiquitous network nationwide for broadband. Then we wrap a layer of the SD wan infrastructure for that, as an example, over the top of that, right? You can't do that by yourself. I mean, people try and they fail. And that's the role of a managed service provider like us is to pull all that together. Take that away. We have that expertise. >> Interviewer: I think this is a really interesting point. Let's just unpack that just for a second. Yeah. In the old days, we want to do an interconnect. You had an agreement. You did, you have your own stuff, do an interconnected connect. >> Glen: Yep. >> Now this, all this mishmash, you got to traverse multiple hops, different networks. >> Glen: That's right >> Different owners, different don't know what's on that. So you guys have to basically stitch this together, hang it together and make it work. And you guys put software on the top and make sure it's cool is that how it works? >> Glen: Yeah. Software and different technology components for the SD wan. And then we would deliver the shore and manager all that. And that's, that's where I really like what's happening in the industry, at least in terminology, which is they try, you have to try to simplify that because it's very, very complicated, but I'm going to give you the network as a service mean, I'm going to give you all the transport and you have to don't have to worry about it. I'm going to rent you the, the SD wan technology. And then I'm going to have in my gateways all these security components for a firewall as a service, zero trust network access, cloud brokerage services. So I will secure all of your data as you go to the cloud and do all of that for you. That's really what we, that's what we bring to the table. And that's what is really, really hard for enterprises to do today. Just because they can't, the expertise needed to do that is just not there. >> Interviewer: Well, what's interesting is that first you have to do it now because the reality of your business now is you don't do it. You won't have customers, but you're making it easier for them. So they don't have to think about it. - [Glen] That's right. >> But now you bring in hybrid networking hybrid cloud, they call it or multi-cloud right. It's essentially a distributed computing and essentially what you're doing, but with multiple typologies, >> Glen: that's right. >> Interviewer: I got an edge device. - [Glen] That's right. If I'm a business. - [Glen] That's right. >> That's where it could be someone working at home >> Glen: That's right. - Or it could be my retail >> Or whatever it could be. So edge is just an extension of what you guys already do. And is that right? Am I getting that right? >> Glen: Yeah that's exactly right. And, and, but the point is, is to make it economic and to make it really work for the end user. If you're a branch, you may have a, a application that's still being run via VPN, but you also need wifi internet for your customers because you want to use your mobile device. They've entered into your store and you want to be able to track that right. And push something to them. And then you've got the actual store applications could be point of sales could be back of house comparing that's going up to AWS. Azura whatever. Right. And that all has to be, it all has to come from one particular branch and someone has to be able to manage that capability. >> Interviewer: It's funny, - Its so different >> Interviewer: just as you're talking, I'm just thinking, okay. Facial recognition, high, high bandwidth requirements, >> Glen: Huge high bandwidth requirements >> Processing at the edge becomes huge. >> Glen: It does. >> So that becomes a new dynamic. >> Glen: It does. It's got to be more dynamic. It's not a static IP end point. >> Glen: Well, I'll give you another an example. Let's say it's, it seems silly, but it's so important from a business perspective, your quick service restaurant, the amount of digital sales from applications are just skyrocketing. And if you yourself, and particularly in the pandemic, you order something, or that goes up to the cloud, comes back through, goes to the point of sales. And then the, the back of house network in a particular restaurant, if that doesn't get there, because one line of you only have one internet connection and it's down, which sometimes happens, right? You lose business, you lose that customer. It's so important. So what's being pushed down to the edge is, you know, reliable broadband hybrid networks, where you have a primary wire line and a secondary wire line, maybe a tertiary wireless or whatever. And then a box, a device that can manage between those two so that you can keep that 99.9, 9% availability at your branch, just for those simple types of applications. >> Interviewer: You know Glenn, you as you're talking most people, when we talk tech, like this is mostly inside the ropes, Hey, I can get it. But most people can relate with the pandemic because they've ordered with their phone on - [Glen] Exactly right >> With the QR code. - [Glen] That's exactly right >> They see the menu - [Glen] That's right >> They get now what's happening - [Glen] That's right that their phone is now connected to the service. >> Glen: That's right >> This is not going away. The new normal. >> Glen: No, it's absolutely here. And what I've seen are there are many, many companies that already knew this and understood this pre pandemic. And they were, they had already changed their infrastructure to really fit what I was calling that network as a service in the SASE model, in different ways. Then there were a bunch that didn't, and I'm not going to name names, but you can look at those companies and you can see how they're, they're struggling terribly. But then there was this. Now there's a, a much bigger push and privatization again, see, I was sending, Hey, I asked for this before. It's not like the CIO didn't know, but management said, well, maybe it wasn't important. Now it is. And so you're seeing this actual amazing surge in business requests and requirements to go to the model that we're all talking about here, which is that SASE type of implementation high-speed broadband. That's not going away for the same reason. And you need a resilient network, right? Yes. >> Interesting. Best practice. Let's just take that advice to the, to the audience. I want to get your thoughts because people who didn't do any R and D or experimentation prior to the pandemic, didn't have cloud. Wasn't thinking about this new architecture got caught flat-footed. -Exactly. >> And they're hurting and or out of business. >> Correct. >> If people who were on the right side of that took advantage as a tailwind and they got lifts. >> That's exactly right. >> So what is the best practice? How should a business think about putting their toe in the water a little bit or jumping in and getting immersed in the new, new architecture? What advice would you give? Because people don't want to be in the wrong side of history. >> No, they don't. >> What's your guy's best practice? >> I may sound biased, but I'm really not trying to be biased. And this'll be some of the I'll speak about here later today. You have to try it. You, as the end user, the enterprise customer, to, to fulfill these types of needs, you've got to really probe your managed service providers. You've got to understand which ones, not just can give you a nice technology presentation and maybe a POC, but who's going to be there for the longterm who has the economic wherewithal to be able to give the resources needed to do what I was talking about, which is you're going to outsource your entire network to me and your sh, and a good portion of your security for the network to a service provider. that service provider has to be able to provide all that has to be able to have the financial capabilities, to be able to provide you with an operating type of model, not you have to buying equipment all the time. That service provider has to be able to have teams that can deliver all of that 200 to 300 different types of providers aggregate all that, and then be there for day two. Simple thing. Like if you know, most companies, if you're not a really large location, you can't afford to, you know, double types of routers that are connected. And if one fails you have fail over, right, most of them will have one router and they'll have, but they'll have two backup paths. Well, what happens is that router or switch, single switch fails? You need to have a meantime to repair a four hours. I mean, that's kind of basic and well do that. How do you do that? You've got to have depots around the entire country. These are the types of questions that any enterprise customers should be probing their managed service provider, right? It's not just about the technology. It's about how can you deliver this and assure this going forward. >> And agility too cause when, if, if things do change rapidly, being agile... >> Exactly >> means shifting and being flexible with your business. >> That's exactly right. And that's important. That's a really important question. And the agility comes from this financial agility, right? Like new threat, new box. I want, I want this old one. I'm going to upgrade to a different type of service. The service providers should be able to do that without me having to force you to go get some more CapEx and buy some more stuff. Cause that's number one. But the other agility is every enterprise is different. Every enterprise believes that its network is the only network in the world and they have opinions and they've tested different technologies. And you're going to have to adapt a little bit to that. And if you don't, you're not going to get out of this. >> It's funny. The old days non-disruptive operations was like a benefit, we have non-disrupt- now it's a table stakes. You can't disrupt businesses. - You can't. You can't at the branch at the remote worker. If you're on a zoom call or whatever, or you're on a teams call, we've all been there. We're still doing it. If it breaks in the middle of a presentation to a customer that's problem. >> Glenn thanks for coming on the cube with great insight. >> Oh great. This was fun. >> Are you exciting and plays golf? You're going to get out there on the range? >> I played, I played golf a lot when I was younger, but I haven't. And so I have a few other things I do, but I guess I'm going to have to learn now that we're also a sponsor of PGA, so yeah, for sure. >> Great. Well, great to have you on - All right thank you and great talk. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insight. >> This was great. I appreciate okay. >> Keep coverage here. Napa valley with Fortinet's Cybersecurity Summit as part of their PGA tour event, that's happening this weekend. I'm John for the Cube. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Okay, hello everyone. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We're here with Meet the Analysts segment Sunday morning. We've got everyone around the world here to discuss a bit of the news around the EU killing the privacy deal, striking it down, among other topics around, you know, data privacy and global commerce. We got great guests here, Ray Wang, CEO of Constellation Research. Bill Mew, founder and CEO of Cyber Crisis Management from the Firm Crisis Team. And JD, CEO of Spearhead Management. JD, I can let you say your name because I really can't pronounce it. How do I (laughs) pronounce it, doctor? >> I wouldn't even try it unless you are Dutch, otherwise it will seriously hurt your throat. (Ray laughing) So, JD works perfect for me. >> Doctor Drooghaag. >> And Sarbjeet Johal, who's obviously an influencer, a cloud awesome native expert. Great, guys. Great to have you on, appreciate it, thanks for comin' on. And Bill, thank you for initiating this, I appreciate all your tweets. >> Happy Sunday. (Bill laughing) >> You guys have been really tweeting up a storm, I want to get everyone together, kind of as an analyst, Meet the Analyst segment. Let's go through with it. The news is the EU and U.S. Privacy Shield for data struck down by the court, that's the BBC headline. Variety of news, different perspectives, you've got an American perspective and you've got an international perspective. Bill, we'll start with you. What does this news mean? I mean, basically half the people in the world probably don't know what the Privacy Shield means, so why is this ruling so important, and why should it be discussed? >> Well, thanks to sharing between Europe and America, it's based on a two-way promise that when data goes from Europe to America, the Americans promise to respect our privacy, and when data goes form America to Europe, the Europeans promise to respect the American privacy. Unfortunately, there are big cultural differences between the two blocks. The Europeans have a massive orientation around privacy as a human right. And in the U.S., there's somewhat more of a prioritization on national security, and therefore for some time there's been a mismatch here, and it could be argued that the Americans haven't been living up to their promise because they've had various different laws, and look how much talk about FISA and the Cloud Act that actually contravene European privacy and are incompatible with the promise Americans have given. That promise, first of all, was in the form of a treaty called Safe Harbor. This went to court and was struck down. It was replaced by Privacy Shield, which was pretty much the same thing really, and that has recently been to the court as well, and that has been struck down. There now is no other means of legally sharing data between Europe and America other than what are being called standard contractual clauses. This isn't a broad treaty between two nations, these are drawn by each individual country. But also in the ruling, they said that standard contractual clauses could not be used by any companies that were subject to mass surveillance. And actually in the U.S., the FISA courts enforce a level of mass surveillance through all of the major IT firms, of all major U.S. telcos, cloud firms, or indeed, social media firms. So, this means that for all of the companies out there and their clients, business should be carrying on as usual apart from if you're one of those major U.S. IT firms, or one of their clients. >> So, why did this come about? Was there like a major incident? Why now, was it in the court, stuck in the courts? Were people bitchin' and moanin' about it? Why did this go down, what's the real issue? >> For those of us who have been following this attentively, things have been getting more and more precarious for a number of years now. We've had a situation where there are different measures being taken in the U.S., that have continued to erode the different protections that there were for Europeans. FISA is an example that I've given, and that is the sort of secret courts and secret warrants that are issued to seize data without anyone's knowledge. There's the Cloud Act, which is a sort of extrajudicial law that means that warrants can be served in America to U.S. organizations, and they have to hand over data wherever that data resides, anywhere in the world. So, data could exist on a European server, if it was under the control of an American company, they'd have to hand that over. So, whilst FISA is in direct conflict with the promises that the Americans made, things like the Cloud Act are not only in controversion with the promise they've made, there's conflicting law here, because if you're a U.S. subsidiary of a big U.S. firm, and you're based in Europe, who do you obey, the European law that says you can't hand it over because of GDPR, or the American laws that says they've got extrajudicial control, and that you've got to hand it over. So, it's made things a complete mess. And to say has this stuff, hasn't really happened? No, there's been a gradual erosion, and this has been going through the courts for a number of years. And many of us have seen it coming, and now it just hit us. >> So, if I get you right in what you're saying, it's basically all this mishmash of different laws, and there's no coherency, and consistency, is that the core issue? >> On the European side you could argue there's quite a lot of consistency, because we uphold people's privacy, in theory. But there have been incidents which we could talk about with that, but in theory, we hold your rights dear, and also the rights of Europeans, so everyone's data should be safe here from the sort of mass surveillance we're seeing. In the U.S., there's more of a direct conflict between everything, including there's been a, in his first week in the White House, Donald Trump signed an executive order saying that the Privacy Act in the U.S., which had been the main protection for people in the U.S., no longer applied to non-U.S. citizens. Which was, if you wanted try and cause a storm, and if you wanted to try and undermine the treaty, there's no better way of doing it than that. >> A lot of ways, Ray, I mean simplify this for me, because I'm a startup, I'm hustlin', or I'm a big company, I don't even know who runs the servers anymore, and I've got data stored in multiple clouds, I got in regions, and Oracle just announced more regions, you got Amazon, a gazillion regions, I could be on-premise. I mean bottom line, what is this about? I mean, and -- >> Bill's right, I mean when Max Schrems, the Austrian. Bill's right, when Max Schrems the Austrian activist actually filed his case against Facebook for where data was being stored, data residency wasn't as popular. And you know, what it means for companies that are in the cloud is that you have to make sure your data's being stored in the region, and following those specific region rules, you can't skirt those rules anymore. And I think the cloud companies know that this has been coming for some time, and that's why there's been announced in a lot of regions, a lot of areas that are actually happening, so I think that's the important part. But going back to Bill's earlier point, which is important, is America is basically the Canary Islands of privacy, right? Privacy is there, but it isn't there in a very, very explicit sense, and I think we've been skirting the rules for quite some time, because a lot of our economy depends on that data, and the marketing of the data. And so we often confuse privacy with consent, and also with value exchange, and I think that's part of the problem of what's going on here. Companies that have been building their business models on free data, free private data, free personally identifiable data information are the ones that are at risk! And I think that's what's going on here. >> It's the classic Facebook issue, you're the product, and the data is your product. Well, I want to get into what this means, 'cause my personal take away, not knowing the specifics, and just following say, cyber security for instance, one of the tenets there is that data sharing is an invaluable, important ethos in the community. Now, everyone has their own privacy, or security data, they don't want to let everyone know about their exploits but, but it's well known in the security world that sharing data with each other, different companies and countries is actually a good thing. So, the question that comes in my mind, is this really about data sharing or data privacy, or both? >> I think it's about both. And actually what the ruling is saying here is, all we're asking from the European side is please stop spying on us and please give us a level of equal protection that you give to your own citizens. Because data comes from America to Europe, whatever that data belongs to, a U.S. citizen or a European citizen, it's given equal protection. It is only if data goes in the other direction, where you have secret courts, secret warrants, seizure of data on this massive scale, and also a level of lack of equivalence that has been imposed. And we're just asking that once you've sorted out a few of those things, we'd say everything's back on the table, away we go again! >> Why don't we merge the EU with the United States? Wouldn't that solve the problem? (Bill laughing) >> We just left Europe! (laughs heartily) >> Actually I always -- >> A hostile takeover of the UK maybe, the 52nd state. (Bill laughing loudly) >> I always pick on Bill, like Bill, you got all screaming loud and clear about all these concerns, but UKs trying to get out of that economic union. It is a union at the end of the day, and I think the problem is the institutional mismatch between the EU and U.S., U.S. is old democracy, bigger country, population wise, bigger economy. Whereas Europe is several countries trying to put together, band together as one entity, and the institutions are new, like you know, they're 15 years old, right? They're maturing. I think that's where the big mismatch is and -- >> Well, Ray, I want to get your thoughts on this, Ray wrote a book, I forget what year it was, this digital disruption, basically it was digital transformation before it was actually a trend. I mean to me it's like, do you do the process first and then figure out where the value extraction is, and this may be a Silicon Valley or an American thing, but go create value, then figure out how to create process or understand regulations. So, if data and entrepreneurship is going to be a new modern era of value, why wouldn't we want to create a rule based system that's open and enabling, and not restrictive? >> So, that's a great point, right? And the innovation culture means you go do it first, and you figure out the rules later, and that's been a very American way of getting things done, and very Silicon Valley in our perspective, not everyone, but I think in general that's kind of the trend. I think the challenge here is that we are trading privacy for security, privacy for convenience, privacy for personalization, right? And on the security level, it's a very different conversation than what it is on the consumer end, you know, personalization side. On the security side I think most Americans are okay with a little bit of "spying," at least on your own side, you know, to keep the country safe. We're not okay with a China level type of spying, which we're not sure exactly what that means or what's enforceable in the courts. We look like China to the Europeans in the way we treat privacy, and I think that's the perspective we need to understand because Europeans are very explicit about how privacy is being protected. And so this really comes back to a point where we actually have to get to a consent model on privacy, as to knowing what data is being shared, you have the right to say no, and when you have the right to say no. And then if you have a value exchange on that data, then it's really like sometimes it's monetary, sometimes it's non-monetary, sometimes there's other areas around consensus where you can actually put that into place. And I think that's what's missing at this point, saying, you know, "Do we pay for your data? Do we explicitly get your consent first before we use it?" And we haven't had that in place, and I think that's where we're headed towards. And you know sometimes we actually say privacy should be a human right, it is in the UN Charter, but we haven't figured out how to enforce it or talk about it in the digital age. And so I think that's the challenge. >> Okay, people, until they lose it, they don't really understand what it means. I mean, look at Americans. I have to say that we're idiots on this front, (Bill chuckling) but you know, the thing is most people don't even understand how much value's getting sucked out of their digital exhaust. Like, our kids, TikTok and whatnot. So I mean, I get that, I think there's some, there's going to be blow back for America for sure. I just worry it's going to increase the cost of doing business, and take away from the innovation for citizen value, the people, because at the end of the day, it's for the people right? I mean, at the end of the day it's like, what's my privacy mean if I lose value? >> Even before we start talking about the value of the data and the innovation that we can do through data use, you have to understand the European perspective here. For the European there's a level of double standards and an erosion of trust. There's double standards in the fact that in California you have new privacy regulations that are slightly different to GDPR, but they're very much GDPR like. And if the boot was on the other foot, to say if we were spying on Californians and looking at their personal data, and contravening CCPA, the Californians would be up in arms! Likewise if we having promised to have a level of equality, had enacted a local rule in Europe that said that when data from America's over here, actually the privacy of Americans counts for nothing, we're only going to prioritize the privacy of Europeans. Again, the Americans would be up in arms! And therefore you can see that there are real double standards here that are a massive issue, and until those addressed, we're not going to trust the Americans. And likewise, the very fact that on a number of occasions Americans have signed up to treaties and promised to protect our data as they did with Safe Harbor, as they did with Privacy Shield, and then have blatantly, blatantly failed to do so means that actually to get back to even a level playing field, where we were, you have a great deal of trust to overcome! And the thing from the perspective of the big IT firms, they've seen this coming for a long time, as Ray was saying, and they sought to try and have a presence in Europe and other things. But the way this ruling has gone is that, I'm sorry, that isn't going to be sufficient! These big IT firms based in the U.S. that have been happy to hand over data, well some of them maybe more happy than others, but they all need to hand over data to the NSA or the CIA. They've been doing this for some time now without actually respecting this data privacy agreement that has existed between the two trading blocks. And now they've been called out, and the position now is that the U.S. is no longer trusted, and neither are any of these large American technology firms. And until the snooping stops and equality is introduced, they can now no longer, even from their European operations, they can no longer use standard contractual clauses to transfer data, which is going to be a massive restriction on their business. And if they had any sense, they'd be lobbying very, very hard right now to the Senate, to the House, to try and persuade U.S. lawmakers actually to stick to some these treaties! To stop introducing really mad laws that ride roughshod over other people's privacy, and have a certain amount of respect. >> Let's let JD weigh in, 'cause he just got in, sorry on the video, I made him back on a host 'cause he dropped off. Just, Bill, real quick, I mean I think it's like when, you know, I go to Europe there's the line for Americans, there's the line for EU. Or EU and everybody else. I mean we might be there, but ultimately this has to be solved. So, JD, I want to let you weigh in, Germany has been at the beginning forefront of privacy, and they've been hardcore, and how's this all playing out in your perspective? >> Well, the first thing that we have to understand is that in Germany, there is a very strong law for regulation. Germans panic as soon as they know regulation, so they need to understand what am I allowed to do, and what am I not allowed to do. And they expect the same from the others. For the record I'm not German, but I live in Germany for some 20 years, so I got a bit of a feeling for them. And that sense of need for regulation has spread very fast throughout the European Union, because most of the European member states of the European Union consider this, that it makes sense, and then we found that Britain had already a very good framework for privacy, so GDPR itself is very largely based on what the United Kingdom already had in place with their privacy act. Moving forward, we try to find agreement and consensus with other countries, especially the United States because that's where most of the tech providers are, only to find out, and that is where it started to go really, really bad, 2014, when the mass production by Edward Snowden came out, to find out it's not data from citizens, it's surveillance programs which include companies. I joined a purchasing conference a few weeks ago where the purchase of a large European multinational, where the purchasing director explicitly stated that usage of U.S. based tech providers for sensitive data is prohibited as a result of them finding out that they have been under surveillance. So, it's not just the citizens, there's mass -- >> There you have it, guys! We did trust you! We did have agreements there that you could have abided by, but you chose not to, you chose to abuse our trust! And you're now in a position where you are no longer trusted, and unless you can lobby your own elected representatives to actually recreate a level playing field, we're not going to continue trusting you. >> So, I think really I -- >> Well I mean that, you know, innovation has to come from somewhere, and you know, has to come from America if that's the case, you guys have to get on board, right? Is that what it -- >> Innovation without trust? >> Is that the perspective? >> I don't think it's a country thing, I mean like, it's not you or them, I think everybody -- >> I'm just bustin' Bill's chops there. >> No, but I think everybody, everybody is looking for what the privacy rules are, and that's important. And you can have that innovation with consent, and I think that's really where we're going to get to. And this is why I keep pushing that issue. I mean, privacy should be a fundamental right, and how you get paid for that privacy is interesting, or how you get compensated for that privacy if you know what the explicit value exchange is. What you're talking about here is the surveillance that's going on by companies, which shouldn't be happening, right? That shouldn't be happening at the company level. At the government level I can understand that that is happening, and I think those are treaties that the governments have to agree upon as to how much they're going to impinge on our personal privacy for the trade off for security, and I don't think they've had those discussions either. Or they decided and didn't tell any of their citizens, and I think that's probably more likely the case. >> I mean, I think what's happening here, Bill, you guys were pointing out, and Ray, you articulated there on the other side, and my kind of colorful joke aside, is that we're living a first generation modern sociology problem. I mean, this is a policy challenge that extends across multiple industries, cyber security, citizen's rights, geopolitical. I mean when would look, and even when we were doing CUBE events overseas in Europe, in North American companies we'd call it abroad, we'd just recycle the American program, and we found there's so much localization value. So, Ray, this is the digital disruption, it's the virtualization of physical for digital worlds, and it's a lot of network theory, which is computer science, a lot of sociology. This is a modern challenge, and I don't think it so much has a silver bullet, it's just that we need smart people working on this. That's my take away! >> I think we can describe the ideal endpoint being somewhere we have meaningful protection alongside the maximization of economic and social value through innovation. So, that should be what we would all agree would be the ideal endpoint. But we need both, we need meaningful protection, and we need the maximization of economic and social value through innovation! >> Can I add another axis? Another axis, security as well. >> Well, I could -- >> I put meaningful protection as becoming both security and privacy. >> Well, I'll speak for the American perspective here, and I won't speak, 'cause I'm not the President of the United States, but I will say as someone who's been from Silicon Valley and the east coast as a technical person, not a political person, our lawmakers are idiots when it comes to tech, just generally. (Ray laughing) They're not really -- (Bill laughing loudly) >> They really don't understand. They really don't understand the tech at all! >> So, the problem is -- >> I'm not claiming ours are a great deal better. (laughs) >> Well, this is why I think this is a modern problem. Like, the young people I talk to are like, "Why do we have this rules?" They're all lawyers that got into these positions of Congress on the American side, and so with the American JEDI Contract you guys have been following very closely is, it's been like the old school Oracle, IBM, and then Amazon is leading with an innovative solution, and Microsoft has come in and re-pivoted. And so what you have is a fight for the digital future of citizenship! And I think what's happening is that we're in a massive societal transition, where the people in charge don't know what the hell they're talkin' about, technically. And they don't know who to tap to solve the problems, or even shape or frame the problems. Now, there's pockets of people that are workin' on it, but to me as someone who looks at this saying, it's a pretty simple solution, no one's ever seen this before. So, there's a metaphor you can draw, but it's a completely different problem space because it's, this is all digital, data's involved. >> We've got a lobbyists out there, and we've got some tech firms spending an enormous amount of lobbying. If those lobbyists aren't trying to steer their representatives in the right direction to come up with law that aren't going to massively undermine trade and data sharing between Europe and America, then they're making a big mistake, because we got here through some really dumb lawmaking in the U.S., I mean, there are none of the laws in Europe that are a problem here. 'Cause GDPR isn't a great difference, a great deal different from some of the laws that we have already in California and elsewhere. >> Bill, Bill. >> The laws that are at issue here -- >> Bill, Bill! You have to like, back up a little bit from that rhetoric that EU is perfect and U.S. is not, that's not true actually. >> I'm not saying we're perfect! >> No, no, you say that all the time. >> But I'm saying there's a massive lack of innovation. Yeah, yeah. >> I don't, I've never said it! >> Arm wrestle! >> Yes, yes. >> When I'm being critical of some of the dumb laws in the U.S, (Sarbjeet laughing) I'm not saying Europe is perfect. What we're trying to say is that in this particular instance, I said there was an equal balance here between meaningful protection and the maximization of economic and social value. On the meaningful protection side, America's got it very wrong in terms of the meaningful protection it provides to civil European data. On the maximization of economic and social value, I think Europe's got it wrong. I think there are a lot of things we could do in Europe to actually have far more innovation. >> Yeah. >> It's a cultural issue. The Germans want rules, that's what they crave for. America's the other way, we don't want rules, I mean, pretty much is a rebel society. And that's kind of the ethos of most tech companies. But I think you know, to me the media, there's two things that go on with this tech business. The company's themselves have to be checked by say, government, and I believe in not a lot of regulation, but enough to check the power of bad actors. Media so called "checking power", both of these major roles, they don't really know what they're talking about, and this is back to the education piece. The people who are in the media so called "checking power" and the government checking power assume that the companies are bad. Right, so yeah, because eight out of ten companies like Amazon, actually try to do good things. If you don't know what good is, you don't really, (laughs) you know, you're in the wrong game. So, I think media and government have a huge education opportunity to look at this because they don't even know what they're measuring. >> I support the level of innovation -- >> I think we're unreeling from the globalization. Like, we are undoing the globalization, and that these are the side effects, these conflicts are a side effect of that. >> Yeah, so all I'm saying is I support the focus on innovation in America, and that has driven an enormous amount of wealth and value. What I'm questioning here is do you really need to spy on us, your allies, in order to help that innovation? And I'm starting to, I mean, do you need mass surveillance of your allies? I mean, I can see you may want to have some surveillance of people who are a threat to you, but wait, guys, we're meant to be on your side, and you haven't been treating our privacy with a great deal of respect! >> You know, Saudi Arabia was our ally. You know, 9/11 happened because of them, their people, right? There is no ally here, and there is no enemy, in a way. We don't know where the rogue actors are sitting, like they don't know, they can be within the walls -- >> It's well understood I think, I agree, sorry. it's well understood that nation states are enabling terrorist groups to take out cyber attacks. That's well known, the source enables it. So, I think there's the privacy versus -- >> I'm not sure it's true in your case that it's Europeans that's doing this though. >> No, no, well you know, they share -- >> I'm a former officer in the Royal Navy, I've stood shoulder to shoulder with my U.S. counterparts. I put my life on the line on NATO exercises in real war zones, and I'm now a disabled ex-serviceman as a result of that. I mean, if I put my line on the line shoulder to shoulder with Americans, why is my privacy not respected? >> Hold on -- >> I feel it's, I was going to say actually that it's not that, like even the U.S., right? Part of the spying internally is we have internal actors that are behaving poorly. >> Yeah. >> Right, we have Marxist organizations posing as, you know, whatever it is, I'll leave it at that. But my point being is we've got a lot of that, every country has that, every country has actors and citizens and people in the system that are destined to try to overthrow the system. And I think that's what that surveillance is about. The question is, we don't have treaties, or we didn't have your explicit agreements. And that's why I'm pushing really hard here, like, they're separating privacy versus security, which is the national security, and privacy versus us as citizens in terms of our data being basically taken over for free, being used for free. >> John: I agree with that. >> That I think we have some agreement on. I just think that our governments haven't really had that conversation about what surveillance means. Maybe someone agreed and said, "Okay, that's fine. You guys can go do that, we won't tell anybody." And that's what it feels like. And I don't think we deliberately are saying, "Hey, we wanted to spy on your citizens." I think someone said, "Hey, there's a benefit here too." Otherwise I don't think the EU would have let this happen for that long unless Max had made that case and started this ball rolling, so, and Edward Snowden and other folks. >> Yeah, and I totally support the need for security. >> I want to enter the -- >> I mean we need to, where there are domestic terrorists, we need to stop them, and we need to have local action in UK to stop it happening here, and in America to stop it happening there. But if we're doing that, there is absolutely no need for the Americans to be spying on us. And there's absolutely no need for the Americans to say that privacy applies to U.S. citizens only, and not to Europeans, these are daft, it's just daft! >> That's a fair point. I'm sure GCHQ and everyone else has this covered, I mean I'm sure they do. (laughs) >> Oh, Bill, I know, I've been involved, I've been involved, and I know for a fact the U.S. and the UK are discussing I know a company called IronNet, which is run by General Keith Alexander, funded by C5 Capital. There's a lot of collaboration, because again, they're tryin' to get their arms around how to frame it. And they all agree that sharing data for the security side is super important, right? And I think IronNet has this thing called Iron Dome, which is essentially like they're saying, hey, we'll just consistency around the rules of shared data, and we can both, everyone can have their own little data. So, I think there's recognition at the highest levels of some smart people on both countries. (laughs) "Hey, let's work together!" The issue I have is just policy, and I think there's a lot of clustering going on. Clustered here around just getting out of their own way. That's my take on that. >> Are we a PG show? Wait, are we a PG show? I just got to remember that. (laughs) (Bill laughing) >> It's the internet, there's no regulation, there's no rules! >> There's no regulation! >> The European rules or is it the American rules? (Ray laughing) >> I would like to jump back quickly to the purpose of the surveillance, and especially when mass surveillance is done under the cover of national security and terror prevention. I worked with five clients in the past decade who all have been targeted under mass surveillance, which was revealed by Edward Snowden, and when they did their own investigation, and partially was confirmed by Edward Snowden in person, they found out that their purchasing department, their engineering department, big parts of their pricing data was targeted in mass surveillance. There's no way that anyone can explain me that that has anything to do with preventing terror attacks, or finding the bad guys. That is economical espionage, you cannot call it in any other way. And that was authorized by the same legislation that authorizes the surveillance for the right purposes. I'm all for fighting terror, and anything that can help us prevent terror from happening, I would be the first person to welcome it. But I do not welcome when that regulation is abused for a lot of other things under the cover of national interest. I understand -- >> Back to the lawmakers again. And again, America's been victim to the Chinese some of the individual properties, well documented, well known in tech circles. >> Yeah, but just 'cause the Chinese have targeted you doesn't give you free right to target us. >> I'm not saying that, but its abuse of power -- >> If the U.S. can sort out a little bit of reform, in the Senate and the House, I think that would go a long way to solving the issues that Europeans have right now, and a long way to sort of reaching a far better place from which we can all innovate and cooperate. >> Here's the challenge that I see. If you want to be instrumenting everything, you need a closed society, because if you have a free country like America and the UK, a democracy, you're open. If you're open, you can't stop everything, right? So, there has to be a trust, to your point, Bill. As to me that I'm just, I just can't get my arms around that idea of complete lockdown and data surveillance because I don't think it's gettable in the United States, like it's a free world, it's like, open. It should be open. But here we've got the grids, and we've got the critical infrastructure that should be protected. So, that's one hand. I just can't get around that, 'cause once you start getting to locking down stuff and measuring everything, that's just a series of walled gardens. >> So, to JD's point on the procurement data and pricing data, I have been involved in some of those kind of operations, and I think it's financial espionage that they're looking at, financial security, trying to figure out a way to track down capital flows and what was purchased. I hope that was it in your client's case, but I think it's trying to figure out where the money flow is going, more so than trying to understand the pricing data from competitive purposes. If it is the latter, where they're stealing the competitive information on pricing, and data's getting back to a competitor, that is definitely a no-no! But if it's really to figure out where the money trail went, which is what I think most of those financial analysts are doing, especially in the CIA, or in the FBI, that's really what that probably would have been. >> Yeah, I don't think that the CIA is selling the data to your competitors, as a company, to Microsoft or to Google, they're not selling it to each other, right? They're not giving it to each other, right? So, I think the one big problem I studied with FISA is that they get the data, but how long they can keep the data and how long they can mine the data. So, they should use that data as exhaust. Means like, they use it and just throw it away. But they don't, they keep mining that data at a later date, and FISA is only good for five years. Like, I learned that every five years we revisit that, and that's what happened this time, that we renewed it for six years this time, not five, for some reason one extra year. So, I think we revisit all these laws -- >> Could be an election cycle. >> Huh? >> Could be an election cycle maybe. (laughs) >> Yes, exactly! So, we revisit all these laws with Congress and Senate here periodically just to make sure that they are up to date, and that they're not infringing on human rights, or citizen's rights, or stuff like that. >> When you say you update to check they're not conflicting with anything, did you not support that it was conflicting with Privacy Shield and some of the promises you made to Europeans? At what point did that fail to become obvious? >> It does, because there's heightened urgency. Every big incident happens, 9/11 caused a lot of new sort of like regulations and laws coming into the picture. And then the last time, that the Russian interference in our election, that created some sort of heightened urgency. Like, "We need to do something guys here, like if some country can topple our elections, right, that's not acceptable." So, yeah -- >> And what was it that your allies did that caused you to spy on us and to downgrade our privacy? >> I'm not expert on the political systems here. I think our allies are, okay, loose on their, okay, I call it village politics. Like, world is like a village. Like it's so only few countries, it's not millions of countries, right? That's how I see it, a city versus a village, and that's how I see the countries, like village politics. Like there are two camps, like there's Russia and China camp, and then there's U.S. camp on the other side. Like, we used to have Russia and U.S., two forces, big guys, and they managed the whole world balance somehow, right? Like some people with one camp, the other with the other, right? That's how they used to work. Now that Russia has gone, hold on, let me finish, let me finish. >> Yeah. >> Russia's gone, there's this void, right? And China's trying to fill the void. Chinese are not like, acting diplomatic enough to fill that void, and there's, it's all like we're on this imbalance, I believe. And then Russia becomes a rogue actor kind of in a way, that's how I see it, and then they are funding all these bad people. You see that all along, like what happened in the Middle East and all that stuff. >> You said there are different camps. We thought we were in your camp! We didn't expect to be spied on by you, or to have our rights downgraded by you. >> No, I understand but -- >> We thought we were on your side! >> But, but you have to guys to trust us also, like in a village. Let me tell you, I come from a village, that's why I use the villager as a hashtag in my twitter also. Like in village, there are usually one or two families which keep the village intact, that's our roles. >> Right. >> Like, I don't know if you have lived in a village or not -- >> Well, Bill, you're making some great statements. Where's the evidence on the surveillance, where can people find more information on this? Can you share? >> I think there's plenty of evidence, and I can send some stuff on, and I'm a little bit shocked given the awareness of the FISA Act, the Cloud Act, the fact that these things are in existence and they're not exactly unknown. And many people have been complaining about them for years. I mean, we've had Safe Harbor overturned, we've had Privacy Shield overturned, and these weren't just on a whim! >> Yeah, what does JD have in his hand? I want to know. >> The Edward Snowden book! (laughs) >> By Edward Snowden, which gives you plenty. But it wasn't enough, and it's something that we have to keep in mind, because we can always claim that whatever Edward Snowden wrote, that he made it up. Every publication by Edward Snowden is an avalanche of technical confirmation. One of the things that he described about the Cisco switches, which Bill prefers to quote every time, which is a proven case, there were bundles of researchers saying, "I told you guys!" Nobody paid attention to those researchers, and Edward Snowden was smart enough to get the mass media representation in there. But there's one thing, a question I have for Sabjeet, because in the two parties strategy, it is interesting that you always take out the European Union as part. And the European Union is a big player, and it will continue to grow. It has a growing amount of trade agreements with a growing amount of countries, and I still hope, and I think think Bill -- >> Well, I think the number of countries is reducing, you've just lost one! >> Only one. (Bill laughing loudly) Actually though, those are four countries under one kingdom, but that's another point. (Bill chortling heartily) >> Guys, final topic, 5G impact, 'cause you mentioned Cisco, couldn't help think about -- >> Let me finish please my question, John. >> Okay, go ahead. How would you the United States respond if the European Union would now legalize to spy on everybody and every company, and every governmental institution within the United States and say, "No, no, it's our privilege, we need that." How would the United States respond? >> You can try that and see economically what happens to you, that's how the village politics work, you have to listen to the mightier than you, and we are economically mightier, that's the fact. Actually it's hard to swallow fact for, even for anybody else. >> If you guys built a great app, I would use it, and surveil all you want. >> Yeah, but so this is going to be driven by the economics. (John laughing) But the -- >> That's exactly what John said. >> This is going to be driven by the economics here. The big U.S. cloud firms are got to find this ruling enormously difficult for them, and they are inevitably going to lobby for a level of reform. And I think a level of a reform is needed. Nobody on your side is actually arguing very vociferously that the Cloud Act and the discrimination against Europeans is actually a particularly good idea. The problem is that once you've done the reform, are we going to believe you when you say, "Oh, it's all good now, we've stopped it!" Because with Crypto AG scandal in Switzerland you weren't exactly honest about what you were doing. With the FISA courts, so I mean FISA secret courts, the secret warrants, how do we know and what proof can we have that you've stopped doing all these bad things? And I think one of the challenges, A, going to be the reform, and then B, got to be able to show that you actually got your act together and you're now clean. And until you can solve those two, many of your big tech companies are going to be at a competitive disadvantage, and they're going to be screaming for this reform. >> Well, I think that, you know, General Mattis said in his book about Trump and the United states, is that you need alliances, and I think your point about trust and executing together, without alliances, it really doesn't work. So, unless there's some sort of real alliance, (laughs) like understanding that there's going to be some teamwork here, (Bill laughing) I don't think it's going to go anywhere. So, otherwise it'll continue to be siloed and network based, right? So to the village point, if TikTok can become a massively successful app, and they're surveilling, so and then we have to decide that we're going to put up with that, I mean, that's not my decision, but that's what's goin' on here. It's like, what is TikTok, is it good or bad? Amazon sent out an email, and they've retracted it, that's because it went public. I guarantee you that they're talkin' about that at Amazon, like, "Why would we want infiltration by the Chinese?" And I'm speculating, I have no data, I'm just saying, you know. They email those out, then they pull it back, "Oh, we didn't mean to send that." Really, hmm? (laughs) You know, so this kind of -- >> But the TRA Balin's good, you always want to get TRA Balin out there. >> Yeah, exactly. There's some spying going on! So, this is the reality. >> So, John, you were talking about 5G, and I think you know, the role of 5G, you know, the battle between Cisco and Huawei, you just have to look at it this way, would you rather have the U.S. spy on you, or would you rather have China? And that's really your binary choice at this moment. And you know both is happening, and so the question is which one is better. Like, the one that you're in alliance with? The one that you're not in alliance with, the one that wants to bury you, and decimate your country, and steal all your secrets and then commercialize 'em? Or the one kind of does it, but doesn't really do it explicitly? So, you've got to choose. (laughs) >> It's supposed to be -- >> Or you can say no, we're going to create our own standard for 5G and kick both out, that's an option. >> It's probably not as straightforward a question as, or an answer to that question as you say, because if we were to fast-forward 50 years, I would argue that China is going to be the largest trading nation in the world. I believe that China is going to have the upper hand on many of these technologies, and therefore why would we not want to use some of their innovation, some of their technology, why would we not actually be more orientated around trading with them than we might be with the U.S.? I think the U.S. is throwing its weight around at this moment in time, but if we were to fast-forward I think looking in the longterm, if I had to put my money on Huawei or some of its competitors, I think given its level of investments in research and whatever, I think the better longterm bet is Huawei. >> No, no, actually you guys need to pick a camp. It's a village again. You have to pick a camp, you can't be with both guys. >> Global village. >> Oh, right, so we have to go with the guys that have been spying on us? >> How do you know the Chinese haven't been spying on you? (Ray and John laughing loudly) >> I think I'm very happy, you find a backdoor in the Huawei equipment and you show it to us, we'll take them to task on it. But don't start bullying us into making decisions based on what-ifs. >> I don't think I'm, I'm not qualified to represent the U.S., but what we would want to say is that if you look at the dynamics of what's going on, China, we've been studying that as well in terms of the geopolitical aspects of what happens in technology, they have to do what they're doing right now. Because in 20 years our population dynamics go like this, right? You've got the one child policy, and they won't have the ability to go out and fight for those same resources where they are, so what they're doing makes sense from a country perspective and country policy. But I think they're going to look like Japan in 20 years, right? Because the xenophobia, the lack of immigration, the lack of inside stuff coming in, an aging population. I mean, those are all factors that slow down your economy in the long run. And the lack of bringing new people in for ideas, I mean that's part of it, they're a closed system. And so I think the longterm dynamics of every closed system is that they tend to fail versus open systems. So, I'm not sure, they may have better technology along the way. But I think a lot of us are probably in the camp now thinking that we're not going to aid and abet them, in that sense to get there. >> You're competing a country with a company, I didn't say that China had necessarily everything rosy in its future, it'll be a bigger economy, and it'll be a bigger trading partner, but it's got its problems, the one child policy and the repercussions of that. But that is not one of the things, Huawei, I think Huawei's a massively unlimited company that has got a massive lead, certainly in 5G technology, and may continue to maintain a lead into 6G and beyond. >> Oh yeah, yeah, Huawei's done a great job on the 5G side, and I don't disagree with that. And they're ahead in many aspects compared to the U.S., and they're already working on the 6G technologies as well, and the roll outs have been further ahead. So, that's definitely -- >> And they've got a great backer too, the financer, the country China. Okay guys, (Ray laughing) let's wrap up the segment. Thanks for everyone's time. Final thoughts, just each of you on this core issue of the news that we discussed and the impact that was the conversation. What's the core issue? What should people think about? What's your solution? What's your opinion of how this plays out? Just final statements. We'll start with Bill, Ray, Sarbjeet and JD. >> All I'm going to ask you is stop spying on us, treat us equally, treat us like the allies that we are, and then I think we've got to a bright future together! >> John: Ray? >> I would say that Bill's right in that aspect in terms of how security agreements work, I think that we've needed to be more explicit about those. I can't represent the U.S. government, but I think the larger issue is really how do we view privacy, and how we do trade offs between security and convenience, and you know, what's required for personalization, and companies that are built on data. So, the sooner we get to those kind of rules, an understanding of what's possible, what's a consensus between different countries and companies, I think the better off we will all be a society. >> Yeah, I believe the most important kind of independence is the economic independence. Like, economically sound parties dictate the terms, that's what U.S. is doing. And the smaller countries have to live with it or pick the other bigger player, number two in this case is China. John said earlier, I think, also what JD said is the fine balance between national security and the privacy. You can't have, you have to strike that balance, because the rogue actors are sitting in your country, and across the boundaries of the countries, right? So, it's not that FISA is being fought by Europeans only. Our internal people are fighting that too, like how when you are mining our data, like what are you using it for? Like, I get concerned too, when you can use that data against me, that you have some data against me, right? So, I think it's the fine balance between security and privacy, we have to strike that. Awesome. JD? I'll include a little fake check, fact check, at the moment China is the largest economy, the European Union is the second largest economy, followed directly by the USA, it's a very small difference, and I recommend that these two big parties behind the largest economy start to collaborate and start to do that eye to eye, because if you want to balance the economical and manufacturing power of China, you cannot do that as being number two and number three. You have to join up forces, and that starts with sticking with the treaties that you signed, and that has not happened in the past, almost four years. So, let's go back to the table, let's work on rules where from both sides the rights and the privileges are properly reflected, and then do the most important thing, stick to them! >> Yep, I think that's awesome. I think I would say that these young kids in high school and college, they need to come up and solve the problems, this is going to be a new generational shift where the geopolitical landscape will change radically, you mentioned the top three there. And new alliances, new kinds of re-imagination has to be there, and from America's standpoint I'll just say that I'd like to see lawmakers have, instead of a LinkedIn handle, a GitHub handle. You know, when they all go out on campaign talk about what code they've written. So, I think having a technical background or some sort of knowledge of computer science and how the internet works with sociology and societal impact will be critical for our citizenships to advance. So, you know rather a lawyer, right so? (laughs) Maybe get some law involved in that, I mean the critical lawyers, but today most people are lawyers in American politics, but show me a GitHub handle of that congressman, that senator, I'd be impressed. So, that's what we need. >> Thanks, good night! >> Ray, you want to say something? >> I wanted to say something, because I thought the U.S. economy was 21 trillion, the EU is sittin' at about 16, and China was sitting about 14, but okay, I don't know. >> You need to do math man. >> Hey, we went over our 30 minutes time, we can do an hour with you guys, so you're still good. (laughs) >> Can't take anymore. >> No go on, get in there, go at it when you've got something to say. >> I don't think it's immaterial the exact size of the economy, I think that we're better off collaborating on even and fair terms, we are -- >> We're all better off collaborating. >> Yeah. >> Gentlemen -- >> But the collaboration has to be on equal and fair terms, you know. (laughs) >> How do you define fair, good point. Fair and balanced, you know, we've got the new -- >> We did define fair, we struck a treaty! We absolutely defined it, absolutely! >> Yeah. >> And then one side didn't stick to it. >> We will leave it right there, and we'll follow up (Bill laughing) in a later conversation. Gentlemen, you guys are good. Thank you. (relaxing electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube covering Boomi World 2018, brought to you by Dell Boomi. >> Hi, welcome back to the Cube's continuing coverage of Boomi World 2018, I'm Lisa Martin in Las Vegas at the win, with John Furrier, and we are at the second annual Boomi World with the CEO of Dell Boomi, Chris Mcnabb. Chris, great to have you back on the program. >> Lisa, it's great to be here. >> So, your key, you know, your fireside chat this morning was really interesting, so much information there. Couple of stats that I was researching about Dell Boomi recently, a leader again, I think Micheal said maybe for the seventh year in a row, Dell Boomi, in the iPaas Gartner Magic quadrant, you're way out there, you guys are adding five new customers every single day. >> We are. >> You have, and I love this, as a marketer, 92 percent of the break out sessions here at Boomi World have customers and partners. >> Exactly right. >> What better brand validation than that. Talk to us about this second annual Boomi World. What excites you about getting this community together? >> You know, the excitement and just being a part of this community is just, it's energizing every day. You know, what you're able to do to help customers and you know, solve transformation problems, have them reach out and get integration and connect and unlock data silos in the far reaches of their enterprises and leverage that data, to engage their customers their partners and employees in brand new ways. And when you look at, you know, what best, in my mind, in a user group meeting, customers need to take back to their enterprise what it is that they can do come Monday, to transform their business and so we thought what else better than concrete examples from what partners have done, from what other customers have done and so on. And, you know, as we, I said in the beginning of the keynote, it's so amazing to me when we had the opportunity to review all of the customer's submissions about, I'd like to talk about this, I'd like to talk about that, we had so many more than we can bring on and make a part of our agenda, and it's one success story after another about how they're transforming their business, how they make a massive impact. Even in our partner awards, we talk about the innovation award and the ROI award, etc. you know, having the folks like Charter Communications and Umbra and so on come up and just really innovate. Those are the kinds of things that really drive us at this conference and, I think our theme, Unlimited Possibilities, hit it right on the head. The possiblities for us and our customers to change businesses is truly unlimited. >> How important is integrative platforms of service now that Cloud Native now is certainly going mainstream, Cloud's business model is certainly showing people how the subscriber model works, the fly wheel is certainly going on, BM were just acquired, which is a small startup doing cuberneties, which kind of gets at this whole integration opportunity, how has it changed in iPaas or integrative pass, and what are the credible drivers in that market for you guys right now that's different than before? >> You know, integration platform as a service is a tremendously evolutionary path and one that is rapidly accelerating. When you sit in a category that has, it depends upon which analyst you look at, but somewhere in the range of 50 percent year on year growth, there's a, it tracks a lot of attention, you get a lot of people in startups, you get a lot of the megavenders showing up and you get a lot of the incumbents who have been around a decade like us that really try to get this business to go forward. That evolution pushes the progress of platforms on behalf of our customers very rapidly. It used to be the case in integration platforms of service not all that long ago, was really known as cloud integration platforms. We connect cloud due on premise. And over the last four to five years that has completely changed, right? They are now complete middle, enterprise middle ware solutions that are offered up as a service. They do on premise on premise integration, the do cloud to cloud integration, they can do EDI kinds of integration, ETL, etc. etc. Way beyond integration now, these platforms must come to the table with process integration, workflow orchestration, low code capabilities for mobile app development to engage your customers differently, MBM capabilities for data governance. >> Sounds like enterprise create certain, these are enterprise requirements. >> Yes. >> This is not like doing a little bit here and there, integrative platform service, enterprise grade. What differentiates those two? In your mind? >> I think Garner does a pretty good job of differentiating the segmentation in the market. They talk about enterprise grade integration platforms of service, people, vendors, they bring all of that to the table, and then they have domain specific. You'll get IOT platform as a service, or you'll get workflow as a service, etc. And those kind of niche providers provide deep capabilities but it's only in that one area. And when we look at it, we are a unified platform, is going to be able to dramatically reduce the complexity and speed people up because you can learn one thing and do many things, as opposed to having many domain specific ones then you have to learn them all. >> So, Chris, iPaas has been around for a while, you guys have been a leader, Dell Boomi has, for a long time. But it's more than integration, you guys talked about this reimagining of the I in iPaas. But also, it's not just about connecting applications, connecting data, new and existing sources, it's about connecting people, processes, enabling organizations to actually use that data as that fuel that it can be, to identify new products and services, get more customers, get more data, iterate, etc. etc. Talk to us about iPaas 2.0 from Dell Boomi's perspective and what makes you guys so well positioned to take this forward? >> Yeah, great question Lisa, the iPaas 2.0 for us is really about leveraging all the knowledge, information, and skills that all the talented engineers have put into Boomi for the past decade. And all of the metadata from all of the programs and all of the executions and all the configurations it's ever been run on exists in our repository today. We have nearly 30 terabytes of metadata and information about data integration and so on. It's that pile of metadata that we can leverage and we can put AI machine learning, neural networks to work on, to make sure that the knowledge encapsulated in that metadata repository is made available to not only engineers in our customers but also their constituents. That net effect will dramatically reduce the work load on integration engineers. IT departments that have a list of 50 things to do can now have a list of 10 things to do, they can get to them, and we can turn them from a department of people who say no, to a department that says yes to the business. >> And automation drives a lot of that. I want to get your thoughts on the customer traction. You know, I was just interviewing the adventure capitalist in Silicon Valley we were talking about complexity. You don't want to add more complexity to already complex and tedious tasks. You guys have made good traction with making things easier when you were a startup, now you're a part of Dell. How are you guys going to continue that forward? Is that a key part of your strategy? Making things easier and simpler? >> Yeah John it's always been a key part of our strategy. You know, we find that complexity is a ball and chain around people's leg when it comes to productivity and agility, right? It slows you down at a time you can't afford to be slowed down. And so what we do with our platform today, we allow people to learn one way to program stuff and no matter what kind of integration you want to be able to do, there is one way to do it. I don't have five different technologies to do five different types of integration. With one way to do it, we generate economies of skill for our customers. Do one thing and have it apply to many things, right? Removing the complexity instead of learning five different vendor's products and getting them to work together. That's one way in which we make things easier. We make things easier today based on the metadata that we got. So all of the programs that were written in the history of Boomi, they're all in a single instance of our cloud database, we're a cloud native, right? And so when somebody goes in to connect >> You're a cloud native, so all your stuff is in the cloud? >> We are a single instance multi tenant cloud application. We're offered up as a service, beautiful, right? >> So you're living what your customers are trying to do? >> You know when I see some of my vendors sending out, you know, the two and three page sets of documentation on what the customer needs to do to upgrade to version three or version four, I shudder. None of my costumers ever do upgrades, that's, we provide them, and do for them 11 upgrades a year. We skip Christmas for obvious reasons. But so anyway, going back to how we continue to make things much easier. We have a suggest capability that leverages metadata and immediately creates a mapping between system a and system b, even though you're new to it for the first time, my marketplace and the history of my customer base is not. I can leverage all that with one click and within 30 seconds, I can get you a working integration. >> So born in the cloud gives you an edge? >> It absolutely does. >> And now you're in Dell you have the power and muscle of Dell technology and Micheal Dell, who sees the future by the way not as he's mailing it in, he sees it as super exciting. You asked him that question on stage today around his legacy, and there's a lot of cool stuff happening but a lot of unknown things coming, like voice activated systems, b to bs getting cooler, less boring. How do you see that? >> Yeah, listen, like I say John, I think we're at the tip of the iceberg. I look at what we're doing today for our customers and it's just a foundation layer. Reconnecting to all the things in your enterprise, getting into those far reaches of systems that exist for a long time, and stuff is stuck in there and you can't get access, it's stuck in the cloud and you can't find it. We are breaking down all those barriers and we're making connectivity seamless. But that's just the starting point for us. When you start applying AINML and you start predicting failures for people, you can tell them when they're ready to launch a configuration with a ready to work load and I know before hand that's going to be problematic, that only handles work loads of arrival rates up to x and you're bringing 2x, we can help be that, we can encapsulate knowledge in the platform and really bring on AIML capabilities that take them to the next level leveraging all the smart knowledge and capabilities integration engineers have put into it. >> Speaking of impact, you guys just did with Forester, a total economic impact TEI and there was some big numbers, big quantitative business outcomes that a composite organization that works with Dell Boomi is achieving. One of the things that kind of struck me when you mentioned was that some of the development times can be shortened up to 70 percent with Dell Boomi as the unified platform. IT staff becomes more productive, a lot of cost savings there, the opportunity as a whole to retire legacy systems, reduce the burden on IT, because as we all know, technology is pervasive across the organization, so this new study really shows the significance, not just quantitative benefits, but strong qualitative benefits that your 7500 plus costumers across 35 countries are achieving. >> Absolutely right, you know, if you just look back to our ROI winner from this morning, our partner of the year, 1600 percent ROI on their project. I don't hear that number very often, I wish I had a few more of those in my drawer, but you know, Lisa, when we are a focus. A couple of interesting things about that economic study. One, they really looked at very large organizations. Right? When they averaged everything out, it was a 10 billion dollar organization, it was 30,000 people, it was an enterprise wide deployment. This isn't little, but we are capable of supporting the mid market as well as the large enterprise. And it's our techniques that I was telling earlier, like suggest, like our economies of skill, and other things that we bring to the table that make them much faster and easier. The fact that you can do things seven times faster and so on and so forth, shrinks the amount of time projects take. So think about the impact on one's business. If you schedule a project that takes a year and you take a hit halfway through, you can't really change your mind or take a different direction til your kind of done because you have all this sunk cost. You're sort of stuck following that direction you established 12 months ago, right? So if I can be seven times faster, eight times faster, I know give you seven times more decision points throughout the year to change your mind. Yeah, I thought I was going to do that next but technology has changed, the competition is something, my customers are asking something more of me. Those decision points result in agile, nimbleness for people's business. Our customers desire that, and that's how we talk about, that's how we will provide them agility in their business. >> One last question before we break, I want to get your thoughts on ecosystem and the community. You guys have a very community focus, I saw the showcase here, and you have an ecosystem again, now part of the Dell technologies, but Boomi had its own ecosystem. What's your vision of the ecosystem and community? What's your strategy, how you going to grow it, nurture it, and bring them into the value proposition? >> John, the community is everybody's secret sauce. If you're a Boomi customer, if you're in Boomi, or if you're a Boomi partner, that entire ecosystem, the community is all of our secret sauce. It's the thing that's going to carry us all to more successes. As people participate in, as they contribute to that, things happen, they do more in the platform, the platform learns, and the platform will turn around and provide it back. It is a wonderful, virtuous circle of continue to do more work, continue to get bigger, continue to grow, get smarter, deliver better results, deliver better ROI, do more work, and on we go. >> So you believe in co creation, that dynamic of bringing people into your production, into your development? >> We absolutely do, you know, being one of the last truly open integration platforms as a service provider's on the planet, and you know, many of the former folks have been locked down by larger vendors and so on and so forth, or bought out by private equities etc. And so now being one of the last truly open, we don't have a stake in the game other than I want to connect everything that you're trying to do I want you to engage your customers in new ways, and I want you to transform your business. >> Well, we're talking with Lucky Brand a little bit later today, it's going to be an interesting story, brick and mortar, almost 30 years old, how it's not just transforming with Dell Boomi as a partner, but really revolutionizing the customer experience, because as customers, we expect everything, anywhere, anytime. >> Yeah >> So thank you so much, Chris, for stopping by, wish we had more time to chat, but we appreciate that and we wish you a great event at the second Dell Boomi World. >> Lisa, thank you so much for being here, really enjoy it, and enjoy the rest of the evening. >> Our pleasure. >> Thank you John. >> Thanks Chris. >> And for John Furrier, I'm Lisa Marten, you're watching the cube live from Boomi World 2018. Stick around, John and I will be right back with our next guest.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with David Floyer, and Dave and I are here, day three, David, of our VMworld 2018 coverage, if you can believe it. We're excited to welcome to theCUBE, for the first time, a couple of gentlemen from Micron. We have Eric Caward, business development manager, and Greg Kincaid, ecosystem enablement program manager. Welcome guys. >> Thank you, good to be here. >> Thank you very much. >> So day three, you still have voices, that's impressive, your feet are doing okay? >> Yes, yeah. >> Pretty good, pretty good. >> Good, so Greg, tell us a little bit about your role and specifically what some of the new exciting announcements from Micron with respect to flash. >> So my role is to find deployments where SSDs can improve the performance significantly. Also, any case where you can have simplicity for the system administrator. So, with the new version of VMware 6.7, we've got, we've implemented, using NVMe as our cache layer, and set as our capacity layer to get tremendous performance across the spectrum of reads and writes. >> So can you give us some examples of how good that performance is? What sort of impact have you had? >> So, take for instance using NVMe as the cache layer and as data and a capacity layer, you can get small block random reads of 500,000 for a new cluster. >> That's very impressive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So can you make some savings in terms of the improvements in the VM density and things like that that you can achieve-- >> Absolutely, so almost all of these, well, all of the SSDs are in a two and a half form factor, and so you can get much better density per U with those kinds of SSDs, as opposed to a hard drive where you have to go to a three-inch to get that kind of density. >> So performance density, tons of data, what are some of the things in your opinion, Greg, that differentiate Micron Solution here, versus all those other guys out there? >> Well, we don't just put together a solution. We actually do considerable amount of testing, both in benchmarking, we also do a quite a bit of application testing as well. And we publish a very thorough reference architecture that's available on our website to act as a pragmatic blueprint for those who want to implement those kinds of solutions. >> Excellent, excellent. So, Eric, you're a part of the NVDIMM brigades. >> Yes. >> Tell us what is NVDIMM. Why is it important? >> Well, NVDIMM is very exciting. It's basically a memory that doesn't forget. So it's on the memory bus, it's comprised of DRAM, a controller, and NAND, and when the power is catastrophically lost, all your data is retained. >> So you go up to, what is it, 32 gigabytes on the DIMM? >> Actually, yes we're releasing our 32 gig NVDIMM in production next month, which is right around the corner. >> Wow, and and how many DIMMs can you have in a? >> You can have up to, typically in a 24 socket system, you can have up to 22 of those can be NVDIMM should you wish to. >> That's a lot of memory. >> It is a lot, and it's very, very fast. >> Very, very fast OK, so, tell us some of the changes that need to be made in order to exploit this. This is this is different, isn't it? So, can you give some examples of how you're working with the ISVs, for example? >> Certainly, certainly. From the operating system standpoint, Microsoft Windows Server 2016 supports, natively supports persistent memory. So does the Linux kernel version 4.2 and newer. Along with that, not only that, but you also have applications that are written from the ground up to support to be persistent memory aware. You have Exchange Server, you have SQL Server 2016, and with those applications they can actually access the persistent memory in byte mode, which is much faster than block mode, but you also can more legacy applications can get benefit from block mode, also. >> Wasn't, sorry Dave, I was just going to say let's dig into a customer example. I always love to hear how are these technologies, one, being co-developed as in collaboration with the end-users, right? And two, how are you seeing them in the, in the field actually helping customers transform their businesses from the inside out? >> Well, so one example that comes to mind, actually VMware just did a study with Oracle licensing, and they took a 12 core solution, and they put the redo log onto traditional storage, and they were able to get a certain amount of performance. Let's just call it a hundred units of performance. They did the same thing with the same workload, but they only used nine cores. So, that's actually a reduction in 25% course, but because the redo log was actually put on persistent memory, which again you're accessing that storage at DRAM like speeds, it kept the CPU much, much more busy, much more active, and they actually saw about a 2% increase in performance, but because the licensing costs are tied to your core count; actually, you could potentially save on licensing cost, even though you purchased a NVDIMM to have faster persistent storage. >> What about other benefits like to a data center in terms of energy efficiency? One of the things that Pat Gelsinger said on Monday was that VMware and their Green Charter, if you will, has saved 540 million, I think, tons of CO2 emissions. What I'm hearing Eric, what you're saying, are customers seeing pretty significant like power savings, and that were like roll into cost savings with the performance in this speed that you're able to deliver? >> Yes, if you look at it one of the other use cases for the NVDIMM, persistent memory, is that they used to NAND storage to write these logs, but because of the endurance, it ends up that they would have to replace the SSDs on a three month cadence. Because of the NVDIMM, the endurance it has just natively comes with DRAM, they were able to replace the SSDs with the NVDIMM, and then continue to use that for many, many quarters. >> It's a big cost savings. >> Definitely. >> So, can I go back to the what we were talking about before in terms of implementation of this? >> Yes. >> So, what's necessary? You need the software, the ISV software. You obviously need the Micron and the DIMM. >> That is correct. >> Anything else that you need? >> Yes, the actual, the hardware that you have to have, you have to have, not necessarily a specific CPU, but if you have to have the BIOS that basically goes in and is aware of NVDIMM. >> Right. >> And, one of the reasons why is when a system boots up, that supports NVDIMM, it goes out and looks and sees, is there a valid image set to true? If so, it will load that image from the NAND, through the controller, into the DRAM. Then when it's completed, it will go on to booting up the OS. The OS is none the wiser that that data wasn't sitting in DRAM the entire time, but as you can see if your, if your bios support isn't there from the start with that, that process would never happen. >> But, you can have that BIOS is available on most, most system. >> On multiple, multiple OEM systems. Yes, that is supported. >> Great. So, that there's no requirement for anything special with other than that? >> Other than that, correct. >> That's amazing. So, you've got a pretty, are you going through other ISVs as well? Are you. >> Yes, there are multiple ISVs that we're working with to enable that, basically the performance benefit and the endurance and the low latency of NVDIMMs. >> And people like SAP, for example? >> Yes. >> Perfect. Okay, that's very excited, very, very exciting indeed. Are you doing the same thing with your, class? >> Yes, we actually work with many partners. We work with not just Vmware, but all of the enterprise partners. We do case studies, and we do cost analysis as well. So, for instance we found that if you statistically, strategically add an SSD to a 200 node cluster for Hadoop, you can get the same performance there that if you had added 80 additional nodes for the entire cluster. So, that's quite a bit of a savings of 80 nodes versus an additional 200 NVMe SSDs. >> Yeah, that's great. >> What's some of the feedback on these new advancements that you're hearing from some of the people that are coming by to visit the Micron booth here at VMworld? >> Well, I think people are a little surprised that we are so focused on systems, and making sure that they work on the performance with SSDs. I think people, sometimes they think of Micron in the early days when we were just simply a commodities broker with DRAM, but we're much, much more than that. >> So, customers are reacting to what sounds like an evolution of Micron? >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> Eric, what are some of your-- >> And to be honest, my favorite is when people come by, and they look at the numbers, and they're just like oh my gosh. (laughing) The performance is really outstanding when you look at an NVDIMM, and it's just, it's simply because it is DRAM acting as a storage device. It's sitting on the memory bus. It's sitting on the memory channel, right next to the CPU. The latency is absolutely fantastic. There are certain workloads that are really, really gain a lot of benefit by low latency for quality of service. Then you have just the raw bandwidth, and this is only with two NVDIMMs in this particular demo system. We could have, excuse me, we could have gone up to six in a CPU. So, we could have tripled our performance just with one CPU on one node. So, it's pretty exciting when when the people that are coming in the booth, they get excited too. It makes, it makes this show really fun. >> I think people also don't understand that there's more than one kind of SSD, and we just announced that QLC, a NAND based SSD, that for write once read many could actually supplant many of the hard drives that are used in secondary storage or archives. >> So, it also must be kind of fun to educate people on, hey guess what? There's not just different flavors, but look what Micron is doing. >> Right. >> Evolving our technologies and enabling them to you know, learn about things that they didn't know about. I imagine that must also be a pretty cool. >> I'm working with a software developers as well, so closely, so this is exciting. >> I mean the applications are just innumerable. I mean we're working with artificial intelligence. We're working on machine learning. Applications are other than just the standard database that most people think of accelerating with SSDs. >> Excellent. >> And, to be honest, I'm very passionate about technology, just, I love to geek out, if you will. >> I can tell. >> And, I love seeing the light bulbs come on in people that I'm talking about. It's just very rewarding. >> So we're gone, more than halfway through 2018, scary. September 1st is Saturday. (laughing) So, going towards the end of the of the calendar year, this excitement that I'm getting from both of you, what are you excited about Micron, you know going into early part of 2019, being able to surprise and delight your customers with? >> All right. >> Well, we're going to continue to, to do all of the performance testings that were done. We're going to, as we bring new SSDs to the market, we're going to continue to add tuning advice, and detailed deployment instructions for our customers. We're going continue to partner with the major players to make sure that our SSDs, their performance and their applications. >> And I think with the fact that we're releasing our 32 gig NVDIMM, actually in September. The ecosystem, as it solidifies, it becomes more robust. There's just going to be use cases that our engineers and our team haven't thought of yet. And, so it's going to be really exciting to see what new use cases are out there for super, very fast NVDIMMs. >> Well guys, thanks so much for stopping by and talking with David and me about-- >> Thanks for having us. >> The evolution of Micron, and the excitement that you get from from hearing that validation in the field, and we look forward to hearing what's coming out shortly. So, we'll have to have you back on. >> Sounds great, thanks Lisa, thanks David. >> Love to be back. >> Excellent. Greg, Eric, thanks for your time. For David Floyer my co-host, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE, live from Vmworld 2018. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guests. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE covering Big Data New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and it's ecosystem sponsors. (upbeat techno music) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Here live in New York City, this is theCUBE from SiliconANGLE Media Special. Exclusive coverage of the Big Data World at NYC. We call it Big Data NYC in conjunction also with Strata Hadoop, Strata Data, Hadoop World all going on kind of around the corner from our event here on 37th Street in Manhattan. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE with Peter Burris, Head of Research at SiliconANGLE Media, and General Manager of WikiBon Research. And our next guest is one of our famous CUBE alumni, Prakash Nanduri co-founder and CEO of Paxata who launched his company here on theCUBE at our first inaugural Big Data NYC event in 2013. Great to see you. >> Great to see you, John. >> John: Great to have you back. You've been on every year since, and it's been the lucky charm. You guys have been doing great. It's not broke, don't fix it, right? And so theCUBE is working with you guys. We love having you on. It's been a pleasure, you as an entrepreneur, launching your company. Really, the entrepreneurial mojo. It's really what it's all about. Getting access to the market, you guys got in there, and you got a position. Give us the update on Paxata. What's happening? >> Awesome, John and Peter. Great to be here again. Every time I come here to New York for Strata I always look forward to our conversations. And every year we have something exciting and new to share with you. So, if you recall in 2013, it was a tiny little show, and it was a tiny little company, and we came in with big plans. And in 2013, I said, "You know, John, we're going to completely disrupt the way business consumers and business analysts turn raw data into information and they do self-service data preparation." That's what we brought to the market in 2013. Ever since, we have gone on to do something really exciting and new for our customers every year. In '14, we came in with the first Apache Spark-based platform that allowed business analysts to do data preparation at scale interactively. Every year since, last year we did enterprise grade and we talked about how Paxata is going to be delivering our self-service data preparation solution in a highly-scalable enterprise grade deployment world. This year, what's super exciting is in addition to the recent announcements we made on Paxata running natively on the Microsoft Azure HDI Spark system. We are truly now the only information platform that allows business consumers to turn data into information in a multi-cloud hybrid world for our enterprise customers. In the last few years, I came and I talked to you and I told you about work we're doing and what great things are happening. But this year, in addition to the super-exciting announcements with Microsoft and other exciting announcements that you'll be hearing. You are going to hear directly from one of our key anchor customers, Standard Chartered Bank. 150-year-old institution operating in over 46 countries. One of the most storied banks in the world with 87,500 employees. >> John: That's not a start up. >> That's not a start up. (John laughs) >> They probably have a high bar, high bar. They got a lot of data. >> They have lots of data. And they have chosen Paxata as their information fabric. We announced our strategic partnership with them recently and you know that they are going to be speaking on theCUBE this week. And what started as a little experiment, just like our experiment in 2013, has actually mushroomed now into Michael Gorriz, and Shameek Kundu, and the entire leadership of Standard Chartered choosing Paxata as the platform that will democratize information in the bank across their 87,500 employees. We are going in a very exciting way, a very fast way, and now delivering real value to the bank. And you can hear all about it on our website-- >> Well, he's coming on theCUBE so we'll drill down on that, but banks are changing. You talk about a transformation. What is a teller? An Internet of Things device. The watch potentially could be a terminal. So, the Internet of Things of people changes the game. Are the ATMs going to go away and become like broadcast points? >> Prakash: And you're absolutely right. And really what it is about is, it doesn't matter if you're a Standard Chartered Bank or if you're a pharma company or if you're the leading healthcare company, what it is is that everyone of our customers is really becoming an information-inspired business. And what we are driving our customers to is moving from a world where they're data-driven. I think being data-driven is fine. But what you need to be is information-inspired. And what does that mean? It means that you need to be able to consume data, regardless of format, regardless of source, regardless of where it's coming from, and turn it into information that actually allows you to get inside in decisions. And that's what Paxata does for you. So, this whole notion of being information-inspired, I don't care if you're a bank, if you're a car company, or if you're a healthcare company today, you need to have-- >> Prakash, for the folks watching that might not know our history as you launched on theCUBE in 2013 and have been successful every year since. You guys have really deploying the classic entrepreneurial success formula, be fast, walk the talk, listen to customers, add value. Take a minute quickly just to talk about what you guys do. Just for the folks that don't know you. >> Absolutely, let's just actually give it in the real example of you know, a customer like Standard Chartered. Standard Chartered operates in multiple countries. They have significant number of lines of businesses. And whether it's in risk and compliance, whether it is in their marketing department, whether it's in their corporate banking business, what they have to do is, a simple example could be I want to create a customer list to be able to go and run a marketing campaign. And the customer list in a particular region is not something easy for a bank like Standard Charter to come up with. They need to be able to pull from multiple sources. They need to be able to clean the data. They need to be able to shape the data to get that list. And if you look at what is really important, the people who understand the data are actually not the folks in IT but the folks in business. So, they need to have a tool and a platform that allows them to pull data from multiple sources to be able to massage it, to be able to clean it-- >> John: So, you sell to the business person? >> We sell to the business consumer. The business analyst is our consumer. And the person who supports them is the chief data officer and the person who runs the Paxata platform on their data lake infrastructure. >> So, IT sets the data lake and you guys just let the business guys go to town on the data. >> Prakash: Bingo. >> Okay, what's the problem that you solve? If you can summarize the problem that you solve for the customers, what is it? >> We take data and turn it into information that is clean, that's complete, that's consumable and that's contextual. The hardest problem in every analytical exercise is actually taking data and cleaning it up and getting it ready for analytics. That's what we do. >> It's the prep work. >> It's the prep work. >> As companies gain experience with Big Data, John, what they need to start doing increasingly is move more of the prep work or have more of the prep work flow closer to the analyst. And the reason's actually pretty simple. It's because of that context. Because the analyst knows more about what their looking for and is a better evaluator of whether or not they get what they need. Otherwise, you end up in this strange cycle time problem between people in back end that are trying to generate the data that they think they want. And so, by making the whole concept of data preparation simpler, more straight forward, you're able to have the people who actually consume the data and need it do a better job of articulating what they need, how they need it and making it presentable to the work that they're performing. >> Exactly, Peter. What does that say about how roles are starting to merge together? Cause you've got to be at the vanguard of seeing how some of these mature organizations are working. What do you think? Are we seeing roles start to become more aligned? >> Yes, I do think. So, first and foremost, I think what's happening is there is no such thing as having just one group that's doing data science and another group consuming. I think what you're going to be going into is the world of data and information isn't all-consuming and that everybody's role. Everybody has a role in that. And everybody's going to consume. So, if you look at a business analyst that was spending 80% of their time living in Excel or working with self-service BI tools like our partner's Tableau and Power BI from Microsoft, others. What you find is these people today are living in a world where either they have to live in coding scripting world hell or they have to rely on IT to get them the real data. So, the role of a business analyst or a subject matter expert, first and foremost, the fact that they work with data and they need information that's a given. There is no business role today where you can't deal with data. >> But it also makes them real valuable, because there aren't a lot of people who are good at dealing with data. And they're very, very reliant on these people to turn that data into something that is regarded as consumable elsewhere. So, you're trying to make them much more productive. >> Exactly. So, four years years ago, when we launched on theCUBE, the whole premise was that in order to be able to really drive towards a world where you can make information and data-driven decisions, you need to ensure that the business analyst community, or what I like to call the business consumer needs to have the power of being able to, A, get access to data, B, make sense of the data, and then turn that data into something that's valuable for her or for him. >> Peter: And others. >> And others, and others. Absolutely. And that's what Paxata is doing. In a collaborative, in a 21st Century world where I don't work in a silo, I work collaboratively. And then the tool, and the platform that helps me do that is actually a 21st Century platform. >> So, John, at the beginning of the session you and Jim were talking about what is going to be one of the themes here at the show. And we observed that it used to be that people were talking about setting up the hardware, setting up the clutters, getting Hadoop to work, and Jim talked about going up the stack. Well, this is one of the indicators that, in fact, people were starting to go up the stack because they're starting to worry more about the data, what it can do, the value of how it's going to be used, and how we distribute more of that work so that we get more people using data that's actually good and useful to the business. >> John: And drives value. >> And drives value. >> Absolutely. And if I may, just put a chronological aspect to this. When we launched the company we said the business analyst needs to be in charge of the data and turning the data into something useful. Then right at that time, the world of create data lakes came in thanks to our partners like Cloudera and Hortonworks, and others, and MapR and others. In the recent past, the world of moving from on premise data lakes to hybrid, multicloud data lakes is becoming reality. Our partners at Microsoft, at AWS, and others are having customers come in and build cloud-based data lakes. So, today what you're seeing is on one hand this complete democratization within the business, like at Standard Chartered, where all these business analysts are getting access to data. And on the other hand, from the data infrastructure moving into a hybrid multicloud world. And what you need is a 21st Century information management platform that serves the need of the business and to make that data relevant and information and ready for their consumption. While at the same time we should not forget that enterprises need governance. They need lineage. They need scale. They need to be able to move things around depending on what their business needs are. And that's what Paxata is driving. That's why we're so excited about our partnership with Microsoft, with AWS, with our customer partnerships such as Standard Chartered Bank, rolling this out in an enterprise-- >> This is a democratization that you were referring to with your customers. We see this-- >> Everywhere. >> When you free the data up, good things happen but you don't want to have IT be the constraint, you want to let them enable-- >> Peter: And IT doesn't want to be the constraint. >> They don't. >> This is one of the biggest problems that they have on a daily basis. >> They're happy to let it go free as long as it's in they're mind DevOps-like related, this is cool for them. >> Well, they're happy to let it go with policy and security in place. >> Our customers, our most strategic customers, the folks who are running the data lakes, the folks who are managing the data lakes, they are the first ones that say that we want business to be able to access this data, and to be able to go and make use out of this data in the right way for the bank. And not have us be the impediment, not have us be the roadblock. While at the same time we still need governance. We still need security. We still need all those things that are important for a bank or a large enterprise. That's what Paxata is delivering to the customers. >> John: So, what's next? >> Peter: Oh, I'm sorry. >> So, really quickly. An interesting observation. People talk about data being the new fuel of business. That really doesn't work because, as Bill Schmarzo says, it's not the new fuel of business, it's new sunlight of business. And the reason why is because fuel can only be used once. >> Prakash: That's right. >> The whole point of data is that it can be used a lot, in a lot of different ways, and a lot of different contexts. And so, in many respects what we're really trying to facilitate or if someone who runs a data lake when someone in the business asks them, "Well, how do you create value for the business?" The more people, the more users, the more context that they're serving out of that common data, the more valuable the resource that they're administering. So, they want to see more utilization, more contexts, more data being moved out. But again, governance, security have to be in place. >> You bet, you bet. And using that analogy of data, and I've heard this term about data being the new oil, etc. Well, if data is the oil, information is really the refined fuel or sunlight as we like to call it. >> Peter: Yeah. >> John: Well, you're riffing on semantics, but the point is it's not a one trick pony. Data is part of the development, I wrote a blog post in 1997, I mean 2007 that said data's the new development kit. And it was kind of riffing on this notion of the old days >> Prakash: You bet. >> Here's your development kit, SDK, or whatever was how people did things back then Enter the cloud, >> Prakash: That's right. >> And boom, there it is. The data now is in the process of the refinery the developers wanted. The developers want the data libraries. Whatever that means. That's where I see it. And that is the democratization where data is available to be integrated in to apps, into feeds, into ... >> Exactly, and so it brings me to our point about what was the exciting, new product innovation announcement we made today about Intelligent Ingest. You want to be able to access data in the enterprise regardless of where it is, regardless of the cloud where it's sitting, regardless of whether it's on-premise, in the cloud. You don't need to as a business worry about whether that is a JSON file or whether that's an XML file or that's a relational file. That's irrelevant. What you want is, do I have the access to the right data? Can I take that data, can I turn it into something valuable and then can I make a decision out of it? I need to do that fast. At the same time, I need to have the governance and security, all of that. That's at the end of the day the objective that our customers are driving towards. >> Prakash, thanks so much for coming on and being a great member of our community. >> Fantastic. >> You're part of our smart network of great people out there and entrepreneurial journey continues. >> Yes. >> Final question. Just observation. As you pinch yourself and you go down the journey, you guys are walking the talk, adding new products. We're global landscape. You're seeing a lot of new stuff happening. Customers are trying to stay focused. A lot of distractions whether security or data or app development. What's your state of the industry? How do you view the current market, from your perspective and also how the customer might see it from their impact? >> Well, the first thing is that I think in the last four years we have seen significant maturity both on the providers off software technology and solutions, and also amongst the customers. I do think that going forward what is really going to make a difference is one really driving towards business outcomes by leveraging data. We've talked about a lot of this over the last few years. What real business outcomes are you delivering? What we are super excited is when we see our customers each one of them actually subscribes to Paxata, we're a SAS company, they subscribe to Paxata not because they're doing the science experiment but because they're trying to deliver real business value. What is that? Whether that is a risk in compliance solution which is going to drive towards real cost savings. Or whether that's a top line benefit because they know what they're customer 360 is and how they can go and serve their customers better or how they can improve supply chains or how they can optimize their entire efficiency in the company. I think if you take it from that lens, what is going to be important right now is there's lots of new technologies coming in, and what's important is how is it going to drive towards those top three business drivers that I have today for the next 18 months? >> John: So, that's foundational. >> That's foundational. Those are the building blocks-- >> That's what is happening. Don't jump... If you're a customer, it's great to look at new technologies, etc. There's always innovation projects-- >> RND, GPOCs, whatever. Kick the tires. >> But now, if you are really going to talk the talk about saying I'm going to be, call your word, data-driven, information-driven, whatever it is. If you're going to talk the talk, then you better walk the walk by delivering the real kind of tools and capabilities that you're business consumers can adopt. And they better adopt that fast. If they're not up and running in 24 hours, something is wrong. >> Peter: Let me ask one question before you close, John. So, you're argument, which I agree with, suggests that one of the big changes in the next 18 months, three years as this whole thing matures and gets more consistent in it's application of the value that it generates, we're going to see an explosion in the number users of these types of tools. >> Prakash: Yes, yes. >> Correct? >> Prakash: Absolutely. >> 2X, 3X, 5X? What do you think? >> I think we're just at the cusp. I think is going to grow up at least 10X and beyond. >> Peter: In the next two years? >> In the next, I would give that next three to five years. >> Peter: Three to five years? >> Yes. And we're on the journey. We're just at the tip of the high curve taking off. That's what I feel. >> Yeah, and there's going to be a lot more consolidation. You're going to start to see people who are winning. It's becoming clear as the fog lifts. It's a cloud game, a scale game. It's democratization, community-driven. It's open source software. Just solve problems, outcomes. I think outcome is going to be much faster. I think outcomes as a service will be a model that we'll probably be talking about in the future. You know, real time outcomes. Not eight month projects or year projects. >> Certainly, we started writing research about outcome-based management. >> Right. >> Wikibon Research... Prakash, one more thing? >> I also just want to say that in addition to this business outcome thing, I think in the last five years I've seen a lot of shift in our customer's world where the initial excitement about analytics, predictive, AI, machine-learning to get to outcomes. They've all come into a reality that none of that is possible if you're not able to handle, first get a grip on your data, and then be able to turn that data into something meaningful that can be analyzed. So, that is also a major shift. That's why you're seeing the growth we're seeing-- >> John: Cause it's really hard. >> Prakash: It's really hard. >> I mean, it's a cultural mindset. You have the personnel. It's an operational model. I mean this is not like, throw some pixie dust on it and it magically happens. >> That's why I say, before you go into any kind of BI, analytics, AI initiative, stop, think about your information management strategy. Think about how you're going to democratize information. Think about how you're going to get governance. Think about how you're going to enable your business to turn data into information. >> Remember, you can't do AI with IA? You can't do AI without information architecture. >> There you go. That's a great point. >> And I think this all points to why Wikibon's research have all the analysts got it right with true private cloud because people got to take care of their business here to have a foundation for the future. And you can't just jump to the future. There's too much just to come and use a scale, too many cracks in the foundation. You got to do your, take your medicine now. And do the homework and lay down a solid foundation. >> You bet. >> All right, Prakash. Great to have you on theCUBE. Again, congratulations. And again, it's great for us. I totally have a great vibe when I see you. Thinking about how you launched on theCUBE in 2013, and how far you continue to climb. Congratulations. >> Thank you so much, John. Thanks, Peter. That was fantastic. >> All right, live coverage continuing day one of three days. It's going to be a great week here in New York City. Weather's perfect and all the players are in town for Big Data NYC. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. Be back with more after this short break. (upbeat techno music).

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Veritas Vision 2017. Brought to you by Veritas. >> Welcome back to Veritas Vision, #VtasVision. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and this is our second day of Veritas Vision 2017. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with Stu Miniman, my cohost, Jim Livingston is here. Here's the world-wide Vice President of Global Services at Veritas. Good to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Ah, I appreciate the opportunity. >> So we love talking services. We've been talking off camera, and to me it's where the value is when you talk to customers. It's really, I mean, yeah, product is great, features are great, but it's services, at the end of the day are what keeps 'em coming back, keeps 'em happy, solves their problem. It's where the rubber meets the road. So, tell us about-- >> So Dave, I need you to be one of my top sales reps. >> Dave: Right, I mean, you know! >> That's outstanding. >> Well, because you know, services doesn't get the attention I think it deserves. It's sort of undervalued, certainly, in the trade press. I mean, I'm sure you'd agree with that. But when you talk to a customer and say okay, you have 100 points to allocate, how much would you place on service? It's oftentimes well over 50%. Is that what you've seen? >> Eh, so I'd say it varies by solution. You know, I will tell you that from my perspective, running a services business inside a product company is a little bit different. I, first and foremost, I believe my charter is really to ensure that our customers get the most value from the products. They're able to explore and utilize any of the features and functions that really are applicable to the objectives they're trying to solve, the outcomes they're trying to drive towards. And that's a critical piece. And then we just want to make sure they have a great experience. So from my perspective, what I really want to focus on is making sure that we really drive that. What's interesting, though, is I will tell you one of the challenges with that is if you look at, as we ramped up our innovation engine which is phenomenal, all the product launches, all the new products, a lot of which we talked about this week at the conference, is then coming on me to make sure that we've done all the things to continue to refine and redevelop and retrain our people to make sure that they're aligned to those. But also aligned to not just the skills and the new products, and skills necessary to extract the value from those products, but all the things associated with the new environmental aspects, all the cloud platform attributes, container-based complications or things like that. So, it's been phenomenal to build and align to that journey. >> So, we spoke to Bill Coleman yesterday, and he talked about putting in the leadership to help drive not only the innovation, but kind of the culture, the vision, and where you're driving it. What do you see as the opportunity, and how much change needs to happen inside the services organization compared to when it was a piece of Symantec? >> So I think the very first thing we have to do is we have to continue to recalibrate around thinking outcomes. It's a very simple thing to say. It's a very difficult thing to do. It really, what it requires first and foremost is trying to engage earlier in that lifecycle, earlier in that process of engaging and talking to customers and trying to identify, ultimately, what are the objectives they're trying to solve for, what are the outcomes that they're looking for, what's their imperatives? And so for me that's a large piece of this is to engage early. And then focus all those discussions around outcomes versus, fundamentally, that's the basic difference between a product sales motion and a solution sales motion, is really aligning to those outcomes. So it's a cultural shift, no doubt. >> And there's a lot of emerging tech that we're talking about this week. How much is consulting, how much is services, what's kind of the makeup of your organization look like in your engagement with customers? >> So I'd say right now, it's about 50-50. Where about 50% of those services we're trying to engage, and I'm trying to move that to more and more earlier in the process. You know, if I think about, as we develop skills not just around our platform but around the things that are ancillary, cloud, containers, all the different things that are adjacent or add complexity to our world, and most importantly to the customer's world. For me, the earlier we can bring those in so that we can align and ensure that we start their journey, we align to the things that they want, the things that they need in terms of their environment, of serving their customers, aligning to their strategy. So that's a big piece of it, is shifting earlier and driving much more of a consulting base versus just the traditional deployment services. >> So people, process, and technology. We always talk about that on theCUBE. Technology execs always tell us, the practitioners, generally we got that covered. You've been around long enough to know, see different evolutions of technology, and how that technology's applied. The industry's getting so much more complex, things are happening much, much faster. But in thinking about not the technology, but the people and process pieces that have evolved, I wonder if you could comment on what you've seen over your years. Describe kind of where we are today, and where you see it all going? >> Great question. So the rate of change, has been phenomenal. And, it absolutely, it creates challenges every day, which are actually, typically every challenge is an opportunity from my perspective. For me personally, what we really try to focus on is first and foremost develop the skills that are closest, in closest relation to us, so that we can apply those skills and the knowledge and expertise of our engineering team, our consulting team, is ultimately aligned to the customer's. So if you think about things that are happening, for example, without a doubt the one that's happening to virtually all of our customers is a proliferation of cloud. What it really means to them is their information fabric, where their information lies, their charter as an IT organization, our traditional customer, their charter's become much more complex. Just the challenge to identify where all the information assets are is a big opportunity for us to come in and assist them in that process. And then ultimately, to be able to take their strategies around data protection, business continuity or disaster recovery, whatever it is around how they protect and secure that data, to be able to take that into something that has proliferated into so many different areas, both in the infrastructure base and then driven by applications and other cloud deployment methods, so. >> So you guys were both at EMC, where Tucci was always famous for saying we're a products company, not a services company. Veritas, obviously, great engineering team, product company. Talk about services inside of a products company? >> So I'll go back to what I said first and foremost. I believe service is the first charter, although it doesn't have to be the only charter. The first charter that you have to do well is that you have to ensure that you have the skills and capability to guarantee a great customer experience. That for me is the very first piece. So typically that doesn't rise to the occasion of saying it's a services company. It really rises to the occasion of we have a great customer experience, we have a loyal customer base, and we have a customer base that ultimately is so rewarded with the capabilities of the product because they're enjoying them, it's well-integrated in their environment, et cetera, it becomes a sticking customer as well. And that's, I believe that's our first charter. Go ahead? >> Just take us inside some of those customers. What are the real, some of the maintain points you're seeing what are the areas that you find that your team is able to help them the most? >> That's great. Multiple areas. You know, you get started with the very basics, what I would consider very infrastructure-oriented, and very basic around storage. You know, customers are constantly, as clouds are proliferating, so is their storage base. And all of them are ultimately looking for ways that they can lower their costs and still maintain access to the information that they need and protect in the same manner. So, going in and design or architect a solution that allows them to leverage commodity storage, cloud-based storage, et cetera, and still have a lot of the functionality that they're used to, it aligns right into their existing data protection strategy, is one good piece. Monster ROIs on that. Then you get into more complex things around compliance. You know, most notably GDPR being six, seven, eight months out, and it's driving a lot of interest and demand, but in reality if you go around the globe, the vast majority of the countries are driving some level of increased focus on regulations that drive a level of protection of privacy, personal data privacy, et cetera. And again, having the technology is one thing, and Mike does a phenomenal job of building the products that the customers need to be able to locate, classify, protect, et cetera. My job and my charter is to make sure the customers can actually take that technology and use it in that manner, so we're doing, to your question, I'm seeing a huge uptick in that just in the short time I've been here. Tremendous amount of interest, and customers wanting to engage and leverage in that fashion. >> Talk about where Veritas picks up and leaves off relative to some of the SI partners that you have. What's that relationship like? >> So, I'd say we tend to stay fairly focused on our technology, and how we work and partner and align to those types of partners. As a matter of fact, compliance and regulatory activities are a great example of that. If you really think about a typical customer's concerns around how they protect their customer data, their employee data, their supplier data, et cetera. We provide a lot technology and the infrastructure behind that. The overarching process and the business process go much wider. And that's where alignment with systems integrators and things like that that have a much more robust, in terms of breadth and lots of business units, et cetera, becomes an important partnership on our part. We can focus on our piece, really create a solution that's beneficial first and foremost to the customer, and helps complete their solution. >> One of the things Stu and I have been talking about this week is you've got this massive Veritas install base. You're moving towards this vision of modern data protection and information management. Service is going to be key there. How do you get the customer from Point A to Point B, Bill Coleman said, "It's ours to lose." that means pressure's on your organization to make it happen. So what's the conversation like, what's the journey you're taking customers through there? >> A lot of those, what we try and start those journeys first and foremost with assessments or things that are really driven around identifying what the transformational event is. That's all about engaging, bringing the breadth of knowledge around not just the products, but how the products are used and how they can be deployed early in the process. >> And that's a for-pay service? >> That's a for-pay service. But it's something that we really focus on the deliverable, so it's a for-pay service that says hey, we're going to come out with a roadmap, a specific solution, et cetera. >> But that's important, because the customer has skin in the game. >> Jim: They do. >> You know, if it's a freebie, that's nice, but then a lot of times they don't show up for the meeting. >> And that's so true, Dave, and that's a big piece, honestly. And in some cases, candidly, the challenge or the opportunity in terms of for-pay, is to ensure there is skin in the game. I think further down, further into the journey, around what I consider things around driving operational efficiency or optimizing the customer's environment, that actually becomes another great point of entry. And sometimes you go in and just want to ensure that the customers are getting maximum value for their product, that they're continuing to have a great experience, et cetera. But in all cases, ultimately, there's always changes in the environment around, not just environmental changes, changes within the customer around new priorities, new objectives, new imperatives for next year, the following year. And to the extent that we can take that opportunity through assessments and health checks and things like that to identify those, map them up to their business imperatives, and ultimately go in and be sure that they continue down that journey with our solutions is a big piece. >> Jim, one of the things we're also looking at, you sell point products. And then it was kind of a suite, and now we've been talking a little bit about a platform. What's the impact on the services for moving to that integrated platform? >> So it's actually, I'd say, twofold. The first piece is really, first and foremost we want to make sure the customer's are getting maximum value for the solution. And I'd say that's probably charter number one. The other piece is, in many cases, a little bit going to the transformational or the assessment-type services, or more traditional consulting services. In many cases, you buy a platform and you engage and you have three or four pieces of functionality and you're really looking for three. And we just gave you four. One of the opportunities from my perspective is how do we actually ensure that the customer understands the value that they have on that fourth, and then we can deploy it in a manner that they get the most value for it, and it becomes a benefit for us and most importantly a benefit for our customers. >> Feedback from the customers at the event? What have you been hearing? I mean you guys are a year into this 360. What are they telling you? >> It's been phenomenal. Both from customers and partners. I've spent time really probably equally with both. It's been a lot of excitement around the product launches, a lot of excitement around the innovation, not just of the launches for this week, but really the innovation, the changes that have taken place over the last year, even before I joined. I'd say one of the ones that actually has resonated and I've heard most often is when people talk about modernizing data protection. Mike Palmer in yesterday's general session used this slide, it was actually the first time I had seen it as well, and like I got to get a copy of that, because it actually just, it shows with any customer of ours the breadth of change that's taken place in their environment from cloud and hybrid and all the different things. Which is a challenge, and the opportunity for me, to go in and ensure that we continually align to those and we ensure that they're aligned. >> Jim, Veritas has a long history working on lots of different solutions. From a services standpoint, though, I got to think cloud's a little bit different. We've talked to customers. If you're a big customer, you probably get good support. Some smaller ones, well, you're a little bit more on your own. What's your experiences, how is it to work with those hyper-scale partners? >> Uh, so from, one of the things I'd like to do, is I like to ensure that, candidly, we can establish an environment that we can improve and level out the consistency, in some cases, of some of the cloud experiences our customers have. And by the way, I'm also a big fan, and we're really putting a lot of our focus around automation. Which actually takes the burden off of the customers, in many cases. And we'll have a lot of focus in the second half of our fiscal year in the next six months, really around driving automation so that as cloud touches any type of deployment, or interaction with our products, there's all the work, obviously, that Mike and the product teams are driving themselves. There's areas that really fall below that that are really much more aligned to the business process that the customers perform, where I can actually, I believe I can do a lot to improve their service across all the platforms. Whether it's Amazon, Azure, IBM, Google, et cetera. >> We'll give you last thoughts. You talked a little bit about some of the feedback, but Veritas Vision 2017, what's your takeaway? >> Exciting event, great opportunity for me personally to meet a lot of customers in one location. I think a great demonstration of the excitement around the company, where we're at in terms of our evolution as a company, most importantly, where we're at with regards to our product roadmap. >> All right, Jim, we'll leave it there. Thanks very much for coming to theCUBE! >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> Thank you, good luck. All right, keep it right there, buddy, we'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Veritas Vision 2017. Right back. (rippling music)