>>Hello, welcome to the Cube here in Palo Alto, California for a special presentation on Cloud native at scale, enabling super cloud modern applications with Platform nine. I'm John Furr, your host of The Cube. We had a great lineup of three interviews we're streaming today. Meor Ma Makowski, who's the co-founder and VP of Product of Platform nine. She's gonna go into detail around Arlon, the open source products, and also the value of what this means for infrastructure as code and for cloud native at scale. Bickley the chief architect of Platform nine Cube alumni. Going back to the OpenStack days. He's gonna go into why Arlon, why this infrastructure as code implication, what it means for customers and the implications in the open source community and where that value is. Really great wide ranging conversation there. And of course, Vascar, Gort, the CEO of Platform nine, is gonna talk with me about his views on Super Cloud and why Platform nine has a scalable solutions to bring cloudnative at scale. So enjoy the program. See you soon. Hello everyone. Welcome to the cube here in Palo Alto, California for special program on cloud native at scale, enabling next generation cloud or super cloud for modern application cloud native developers. I'm John Furry, host of the Cube. A pleasure to have here, me Makoski, co-founder and VP of product at Platform nine. Thanks for coming in today for this Cloudnative at scale conversation. Thank >>You for having me. >>So Cloudnative at scale, something that we're talking about because we're seeing the, the next level of mainstream success of containers Kubernetes and cloud native develop, basically DevOps in the C I C D pipeline. It's changing the landscape of infrastructure as code, it's accelerating the value proposition and the super cloud as we call it, has been getting a lot of traction because this next generation cloud is looking a lot different, but kind of the same as the first generation. What's your view on super cloud as it fits to cloud native as scales up? >>Yeah, you know, I think what's interesting, and I think the reason why Super Cloud is a really good, in a really fit term for this, and I think, I know my CEO was chatting with you as well, and he was mentioning this as well, but I think there needs to be a different term than just multi-cloud or cloud. And the reason is because as cloud native and cloud deployments have scaled, I think we've reached a point now where instead of having the traditional data center style model where you have a few large distributions of infrastructure and workload at a few locations, I think the model is kind of flipped around, right? Where you have a large number of microsites, these microsites could be your public cloud deployment, your private on-prem infrastructure deployments, or it could be your edge environment, right? And every single enterprise, every single industry is moving in that direction. And so you gotta rougher that with a terminology that, that, that indicates the scale and complexity of it. And so I think supercloud is a, is an appropriate term for that. >>So you brought a couple of things I want to dig into. You mentioned edge nodes. We're seeing not only edge nodes being the next kind of area of innovation, mainly because it's just popping up everywhere. And that's just the beginning. Wouldn't even know what's around the corner. You got buildings, you got iot, ot, and IT kind of coming together, but you also got this idea of regions, global infras infrastructures, big part of it. I just saw some news around CloudFlare shutting down a site here. There's policies being made at scale, These new challenges there. Can you share because you can have edge. So hybrid cloud is a winning formula. Everybody knows that it's a steady state. Yeah. But across multiple clouds brings in this new un engineered area, yet it hasn't been done yet. Spanning clouds. People say they're doing it, but you start to see the toe in the water, it's happening, it's gonna happen. It's only gonna get accelerated with the edge and beyond globally. So I have to ask you, what is the technical challenges in doing this? Because there's something business consequences as well, but there are technical challenges. Can you share your view on what the technical challenges are for the super cloud or across multiple edges and regions? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, in in the context of this, the, this, this term of super cloud, I think it's sometimes easier to visualize things in terms of two access, right? I think on one end you can think of the scale in terms of just pure number of nodes that you have deploy a number of clusters in the Kubernetes space. And then on the other axis you would have your distribution factor, right? Which is, do you have these tens of thousands of nodes in one site or do you have them distributed across tens of thousands of sites with one node at each site? Right? And if you have just one flavor of this, there is enough complexity, but potentially manageable. But when you are expanding on both these access, you really get to a point where that scale really needs some well thought out, well structured solutions to address it, right? A combination of homegrown tooling along with your, you know, favorite distribution of Kubernetes is not a strategy that can help you in this environment. It may help you when you have one of this or when you, when you scale, is not at the level. >>Can you scope the complexity? Because I mean, I hear a lot of moving parts going on there, the technology's also getting better. We we're seeing cloud native become successful. There's a lot to configure, there's a lot to install. Can you scope the scale of the problem? Because we're talking about at scale Yep. Challenges here. Yeah, >>Absolutely. And I think, you know, I I like to call it, you know, the, the, the problem that the scale creates, you know, there's various problems, but I think one, one problem, one way to think about it is, is, you know, it works on my cluster problem, right? So I, you know, I come from engineering background and there's a, you know, there's a famous saying between engineers and QA and the support folks, right? Which is, it works on my laptop, which is I tested this chain, everything was fantastic, it worked flawlessly on my machine, on production, It's not working. The exact same problem now happens and these distributed environments, but at massive scale, right? Which is that, you know, developers test their applications, et cetera within the sanctity of their sandbox environments. But once you expose that change in the wild world of your production deployment, right? >>And the production deployment could be going at the radio cell tower at the edge location where a cluster is running there, or it could be sending, you know, these applications and having them run at my customer site where they might not have configured that cluster exactly the same way as I configured it, or they configured the cluster, right? But maybe they didn't deploy the security policies, or they didn't deploy the other infrastructure plugins that my app relies on. All of these various factors are their own layer of complexity. And there really isn't a simple way to solve that today. And that is just, you know, one example of an issue that happens. I think another, you know, whole new ball game of issues come in the context of security, right? Because when you are deploying applications at scale in a distributed manner, you gotta make sure someone's job is on the line to ensure that the right security policies are enforced regardless of that scale factor. So I think that's another example of problems that occur. >>Okay. So I have to ask about scale, because there are a lot of multiple steps involved when you see the success of cloud native. You know, you see some, you know, some experimentation. They set up a cluster, say it's containers and Kubernetes, and then you say, Okay, we got this, we can figure it. And then they do it again and again, they call it day two. Some people call it day one, day two operation, whatever you call it. Once you get past the first initial thing, then you gotta scale it. Then you're seeing security breaches, you're seeing configuration errors. This seems to be where the hotspot is in when companies transition from, I got this to, Oh no, it's harder than I thought at scale. Can you share your reaction to that and how you see this playing out? >>Yeah, so, you know, I think it's interesting. There's multiple problems that occur when, you know, the two factors of scale, as we talked about, start expanding. I think one of them is what I like to call the, you know, it, it works fine on my cluster problem, which is back in, when I was a developer, we used to call this, it works on my laptop problem, which is, you know, you have your perfectly written code that is operating just fine on your machine, your sandbox environment. But the moment it runs production, it comes back with p zeros and pos from support teams, et cetera. And those issues can be really difficult to triage us, right? And so in the Kubernetes environment, this problem kind of multi folds, it goes, you know, escalates to a higher degree because you have your sandbox developer environments, they have their clusters and things work perfectly fine in those clusters because these clusters are typically handcrafted or a combination of some scripting and handcrafting. >>And so as you give that change to then run at your production edge location, like say your radio cell tower site, or you hand it over to a customer to run it on their cluster, they might not have not have configured that cluster exactly how you did, or they might not have configured some of the infrastructure plugins. And so the things don't work. And when things don't work, triaging them becomes nightmarishly hard, right? It's just one of the examples of the problem, another whole bucket of issues is security, which is, is you have these distributed clusters at scale, you gotta ensure someone's job is on the line to make sure that these security policies are configured properly. >>So this is a huge problem. I love that comment. That's not not happening on my system. It's the classic, you know, debugging mentality. Yeah. But at scale it's hard to do that with error prone. I can see that being a problem. And you guys have a solution you're launching. Can you share what Arlon is this new product? What is it all about? Talk about this new introduction. >>Yeah, absolutely. Very, very excited. You know, it's one of the projects that we've been working on for some time now because we are very passionate about this problem and just solving problems at scale in on-prem or at in the cloud or at edge environments. And what arlon is, it's an open source project, and it is a tool, it's a Kubernetes native tool for complete end to end management of not just your clusters, but your clusters. All of the infrastructure that goes within and along the site of those clusters, security policies, your middleware, plug-ins, and finally your applications. So what our LA you do in a nutshell is in a declarative way, it lets you handle the configuration and management of all of these components in at scale. >>So what's the elevator pitch simply put for what dissolves in, in terms of the chaos you guys are reigning in, what's the, what's the bumper sticker? Yeah, what >>Would it do? There's a perfect analogy that I love to reference in this context, which is think of your assembly line, you know, in a traditional, let's say, you know, an auto manufacturing factory or et cetera, and the level of efficiency at scale that that assembly line brings, right? Our line, and if you look at the logo we've designed, it's this funny little robot. And it's because when we think of online, we think of these enterprise large scale environments, you know, sprawling at scale, creating chaos because there isn't necessarily a well thought through, well structured solution that's similar to an assembly line, which is taking each component, you know, addressing them, manufacturing, processing them in a standardized way, then handing to the next stage. But again, it gets, you know, processed in a standardized way. And that's what arlon really does. That's like the deliver pitch. If you have problems of scale of managing your infrastructure, you know, that is distributed. Arlon brings the assembly line level of efficiency and consistency for >>Those. So keeping it smooth, the assembly on things are flowing. See c i CD pipe pipelining. Exactly. So that's what you're trying to simplify that ops piece for the developer. I mean, it's not really ops, it's their ops, it's coding. >>Yeah. Not just developer, the ops, the operations folks as well, right? Because developers, you know, there is, developers are responsible for one picture of that layer, which is my apps, and then maybe that middleware of applications that they interface with, but then they hand it over to someone else who's then responsible to ensure that these apps are secure properly, that they are logging, logs are being collected properly, monitoring and observability integrated. And so it solves problems for both >>Those teams. Yeah. It's DevOps. So the DevOps is the cloud needed developer's. That's right. The option teams have to kind of set policies. Is that where the declarative piece comes in? Is that why that's important? >>Absolutely. Yeah. And, and, and, and you know, ES really in introduced or elevated this declarative management, right? Because, you know, s clusters are Yeah. Or your, yeah, you know, specifications of components that go in Kubernetes are defined a declarative way, and Kubernetes always keeps that state consistent with your defined state. But when you go outside of that world of a single cluster, and when you actually talk about defining the clusters or defining everything that's around it, there really isn't a solution that does that today. And so Arlon addresses that problem at the heart of it, and it does that using existing open source well known solutions. >>And do I want to get into the benefits? What's in it for me as the customer developer? But I want to finish this out real quick and get your thoughts. You mentioned open source. Why open source? What's the, what's the current state of the product? You run the product group over at Platform nine, is it open source? And you guys have a product that's commercial? Can you explain the open source dynamic? And first of all, why open source? Yeah. And what is the consumption? I mean, open source is great, People want open source, they can download it, look up the code, but maybe wanna buy the commercial. So I'm assuming you have that thought through, can you share open source and commercial relationship? >>Yeah, I think, you know, starting with why open source? I think it's, you know, we as a company, we have, you know, one of the things that's absolutely critical to us is that we take mainstream open source technologies components and then we, you know, make them available to our customers at scale through either a SaaS model or on-prem model, right? But, so as we are a company or startup or a company that benefits, you know, in a massive way by this open source economy, it's only right, I think in my mind that we do our part of the duty, right? And contribute back to the community that feeds us. And so, you know, we have always held that strongly as one of our principles. And we have, you know, created and built independent products starting all the way with fision, which was a serverless product, you know, that we had built to various other, you know, examples that I can give. But that's one of the main reasons why opensource and also open source, because we want the community to really firsthand engage with us on this problem, which is very difficult to achieve if your product is behind a wall, you know, behind, behind a block box. >>Well, and that's, that's what the developers want too. And what we're seeing in reporting with Super Cloud is the new model of consumption is I wanna look at the code and see what's in there. That's right. And then also, if I want to use it, I'll do it. Great. That's open source, that's the value. But then at the end of the day, if I wanna move fast, that's when people buy in. So it's a new kind of freemium, I guess, business model. I guess that's the way that long. But that's, that's the benefit. Open source. This is why standards and open source is growing so fast. You have that confluence of, you know, a way for developers to try before they buy, but also actually kind of date the application, if you will. We, you know, Adrian Karo uses the dating met metaphor, you know, Hey, you know, I wanna check it out first before I get married. Right? And that's what open source, So this is the new, this is how people are selling. This is not just open source, this is how companies are selling. >>Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think, and you know, two things. I think one is just, you know, this, this, this cloud native space is so vast that if you, if you're building a close flow solution, sometimes there's also a risk that it may not apply to every single enterprises use cases. And so having it open source gives them an opportunity to extend it, expand it, to make it proper to their use case if they choose to do so, right? But at the same time, what's also critical to us is we are able to provide a supported version of it with an SLA that we, you know, that's backed by us, a SAS hosted version of it as well, for those customers who choose to go that route, you know, once they have used the open source version and loved it and want to take it at scale and in production and need, need, need a partner to collaborate with, who can, you know, support them for that production >>Environment. I have to ask you now, let's get into what's in it for the customer. I'm a customer. Yep. Why should I be enthused about Arla? What's in it for me? You know? Cause if I'm not enthused about it, I'm not gonna be confident and it's gonna be hard for me to get behind this. Can you share your enthusiastic view of, you know, why I should be enthused about Arlo? I'm a >>Customer. Yeah, absolutely. And so, and there's multiple, you know, enterprises that we talk to, many of them, you know, our customers, where this is a very kind of typical story that you hear, which is we have, you know, a Kubernetes distribution. It could be on premise, it could be public clouds, native Kubernetes, and then we have our C I C D pipelines that are automating the deployment of applications, et cetera. And then there's this gray zone. And the gray zone is well before you can you, your CS c D pipelines can deploy the apps. Somebody needs to do all of that groundwork of, you know, defining those clusters and yeah. You know, properly configuring them. And as these things, these things start by being done hand grown. And then as the, as you scale, what typically enterprises would do today is they will have their home homegrown DIY solutions for this. >>I mean, the number of folks that I talk to that have built Terra from automation, and then, you know, some of those key developers leave. So it's a typical open source or typical, you know, DIY challenge. And the reason that they're writing it themselves is not because they want to. I mean, of course technology is always interesting to everybody, but it's because they can't find a solution that's out there that perfectly fits the problem. And so that's that pitch. I think Ops FICO would be delighted. The folks that we've talk, you know, spoken with, have been absolutely excited and have, you know, shared that this is a major challenge we have today because we have, you know, few hundreds of clusters on ecos Amazon, and we wanna scale them to few thousands, but we don't think we are ready to do that. And this will give us the >>Ability to, Yeah, I think people are scared. Not sc I won't say scare, that's a bad word. Maybe I should say that they feel nervous because, you know, at scale small mistakes can become large mistakes. This is something that is concerning to enterprises. And, and I think this is gonna come up at co con this year where enterprises are gonna say, Okay, I need to see SLAs. I wanna see track record, I wanna see other companies that have used it. Yeah. How would you answer that question to, or, or challenge, you know, Hey, I love this, but is there any guarantees? Is there any, what's the SLAs? I'm an enterprise, I got tight, you know, I love the open source trying to free fast and loose, but I need hardened code. >>Yeah, absolutely. So, so two parts to that, right? One is Arlan leverages existing open source components, products that are extremely popular. Two specifically. One is Arlan uses Argo cd, which is probably one of the highest and used CD open source tools that's out there. Right's created by folks that are as part of into team now, you know, really brilliant team. And it's used at scale across enterprises. That's one. Second is Alon also makes use of Cluster api cappi, which is a Kubernetes sub-component, right? For lifecycle management of clusters. So there is enough of, you know, community users, et cetera, around these two products, right? Or, or, or open source projects that will find Arlan to be right up in their alley because they're already comfortable, familiar with Argo cd. Now Arlan just extends the scope of what City can do. And so that's one. And then the second part is going back to a point of the comfort. And that's where, you know, platform line has a role to play, which is when you are ready to deploy online at scale, because you've been, you know, playing with it in your DEF test environments, you're happy with what you get with it, then Platform nine will stand behind it and provide that >>Sla. And what's been the reaction from customers you've talked to Platform nine customers with, with that are familiar with, with Argo and then rlo? What's been some of the feedback? >>Yeah, I, I think the feedback's been fantastic. I mean, I can give you examples of customers where, you know, initially, you know, when you are, when you're telling them about your entire portfolio of solutions, it might not strike a card right away. But then we start talking about Arlan and, and we talk about the fact that it uses Argo adn, they start opening up, they say, We have standardized on Argo and we have built these components, homegrown, we would be very interested. Can we co-develop? Does it support these use cases? So we've had that kind of validation. We've had validation all the way at the beginning of our land before we even wrote a single line of code saying this is something we plan on doing. And the customer said, If you had it today, I would've purchased it. So it's been really great validation. >>All right. So next question is, what is the solution to the customer? If I asked you, Look it, I have, I'm so busy, my team's overworked. I got a skills gap. I don't need another project that's, I'm so tied up right now and I'm just chasing my tail. How does Platform nine help me? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, one of the core tenets of Platform nine has always been been that we try to bring that public cloud like simplicity by hosting, you know, this in a lot of such similar tools in a SaaS hosted manner for our customers, right? So our goal behind doing that is taking away or trying to take away all of that complexity from customers' hands and offloading it to our hands, right? And giving them that full white glove treatment, as we call it. And so from a customer's perspective, one, something like arlon will integrate with what they have so they don't have to rip and replace anything. In fact, it will, even in the next versions, it may even discover your clusters that you have today and you know, give you an inventory. And that will, >>So if customers have clusters that are growing, that's a sign correct call you guys. >>Absolutely. Either they're, they have massive large clusters, right? That they wanna split into smaller clusters, but they're not comfortable doing that today, or they've done that already on say, public cloud or otherwise. And now they have management challenges. So >>Especially operationalizing the clusters, whether they want to kind of reset everything and remove things around and reconfigure Yep. And or scale out. >>That's right. Exactly. And >>You provide that layer of policy. >>Absolutely. >>Yes. That's the key value here. >>That's right. >>So policy based configuration for cluster scale up, >>Well profile and policy based declarative configuration and lifecycle management for clusters. >>If I asked you how this enables supercloud, what would you say to that? >>I think this is one of the key ingredients to super cloud, right? If you think about a super cloud environment, there's at least few key ingredients that that come to my mind that are really critical. Like they are, you know, life saving ingredients at that scale. One is having a really good strategy for managing that scale, you know, in a, going back to assembly line in a very consistent, predictable way so that our lot solves then you, you need to compliment that with the right kind of observability and monitoring tools at scale, right? Because ultimately issues are gonna happen and you're gonna have to figure out, you know, how to solve them fast. And arlon by the way, also helps in that direction, but you also need observability tools. And then especially if you're running it on the public cloud, you need some cost management tools. In my mind, these three things are like the most necessary ingredients to make Super Cloud successful. And you know, our alarm fills in >>One. Okay. So now the next level is, Okay, that makes sense. Is under the covers kind of speak under the hood. Yeah. How does that impact the app developers and the cloud native modern application workflows? Because the impact to me, seems the apps are gonna be impacted. Are they gonna be faster, stronger? I mean, what's the impact if you do all those things, as you mentioned, what's the impact of the apps? >>Yeah, the impact is that your apps are more likely to operate in production the way you expect them to, because the right checks and balances have gone through, and any discrepancies have been identified prior to those apps, prior to your customer running into them, right? Because developers run into this challenge to their, where there's a split responsibility, right? I'm responsible for my code, I'm responsible for some of these other plugins, but I don't own the stack end to end. I have to rely on my ops counterpart to do their part, right? And so this really gives them, you know, the right tooling for that. >>So this is actually a great kind of relevant point, you know, as cloud becomes more scalable, you're starting to see this fragmentation gone of the days of the full stack developer to the more specialized role. But this is a key point, and I have to ask you because if this RLO solution takes place, as you say, and the apps are gonna be stupid, they're designed to do, the question is, what did does the current pain look like of the apps breaking? What does the signals to the customer Yeah. That they should be calling you guys up into implementing Arlo, Argo and, and all the other goodness to automate? What are some of the signals? Is it downtime? Is it, is it failed apps, Is it latency? What are some of the things that Yeah, absolutely would be indications of things are effed up a little bit. Yeah. >>More frequent down times, down times that are, that take longer to triage. And so you are, you know, the, you know, your mean times on resolution, et cetera, are escalating or growing larger, right? Like we have environments of customers where they're, they have a number of folks on in the field that have to take these apps and run them at customer sites. And that's one of our partners. And they're extremely interested in this because they're the, the rate of failures they're encountering for this, you know, the field when they're running these apps on site, because the field is automating their clusters that are running on sites using their own script. So these are the kinds of challenges, and those are the pain points, which is, you know, if you're looking to reduce your meantime to resolution, if you're looking to reduce the number of failures that occur on your production site, that's one. And second, if you are looking to manage these at scale environments with a relatively small, focused, nimble ops team, which has an immediate impact on your budget. So those are, those are the signals. >>This is the cloud native at scale situation, the innovation going on. Final thought is your reaction to the idea that if the world goes digital, which it is, and the confluence of physical and digital coming together, and cloud continues to do its thing, the company becomes the application, not where it used to be supporting the business, you know, the back office and the maybe terminals and some PCs and handhelds. Now if technology's running, the business is the business. Yeah. Company's the application. Yeah. So it can't be down. So there's a lot of pressure on, on CSOs and CIOs now and boards is saying, How is technology driving the top line revenue? That's the number one conversation. Yep. Do you see that same thing? >>Yeah. It's interesting. I think there's multiple pressures at the CXO CIO level, right? One is that there needs to be that visibility and clarity and guarantee almost that, you know, that the, the technology that's, you know, that's gonna drive your top line is gonna drive that in a consistent, reliable, predictable manner. And then second, there is the constant pressure to do that while always lowering your costs of doing it, right? Especially when you're talking about, let's say retailers or those kinds of large scale vendors, they many times make money by lowering the amount that they spend on, you know, providing those goods to their end customers. So I think those, both those factors kind of come into play and the solution to all of them is usually in a very structured strategy around automation. >>Final question. What does cloudnative at scale look like to you? If all the things happen the way we want 'em to happen, The magic wand, the magic dust, what does it look like? >>What that looks like to me is a CIO sipping at his desk on coffee production is running absolutely smooth. And his, he's running that at a nimble, nimble team size of at the most, a handful of folks that are just looking after things, but things are >>Just taking care of the CIO doesn't exist. There's no ciso, they're at the beach. >>Yep. >>Thank you for coming on, sharing the cloud native at scale here on the cube. Thank you for your time. >>Fantastic. Thanks for >>Having me. Okay. I'm John Fur here for special program presentation, special programming cloud native at scale, enabling super cloud modern applications with Platform nine. Thanks for watching. Welcome back everyone to the special presentation of cloud native at scale, the cube and platform nine special presentation going in and digging into the next generation super cloud infrastructure as code and the future of application development. We're here with Bickley, who's the chief architect and co-founder of Platform nine Pick. Great to see you Cube alumni. We, we met at an OpenStack event in about eight years ago, or later, earlier when OpenStack was going. Great to see you and great to see congratulations on the success of platform nine. >>Thank you very much. >>Yeah. You guys have been at this for a while and this is really the, the, the year we're seeing the, the crossover of Kubernetes because of what happens with containers. Everyone now has realized, and you've seen what Docker's doing with the new docker, the open source Docker now just the success Exactly. Of containerization, right? And now the Kubernetes layer that we've been working on for years is coming, bearing fruit. This is huge. >>Exactly. Yes. >>And so as infrastructures code comes in, we talked to Bacar talking about Super Cloud, I met her about, you know, the new Arlon, our, our lawn, and you guys just launched the infrastructures code is going to another level, and then it's always been DevOps infrastructures code. That's been the ethos that's been like from day one, developers just code. Then you saw the rise of serverless and you see now multi-cloud or on the horizon, connect the dots for us. What is the state of infrastructure as code today? >>So I think, I think I'm, I'm glad you mentioned it, everybody or most people know about infrastructures code. But with Kubernetes, I think that project has evolved at the concept even further. And these dates, it's infrastructure is configuration, right? So, which is an evolution of infrastructure as code. So instead of telling the system, here's how I want my infrastructure by telling it, you know, do step A, B, C, and D instead with Kubernetes, you can describe your desired state declaratively using things called manifest resources. And then the system kind of magically figures it out and tries to converge the state towards the one that you specified. So I think it's, it's a even better version of infrastructures code. >>Yeah. And that really means it's developer just accessing resources. Okay. That declare, Okay, give me some compute, stand me up some, turn the lights on, turn 'em off, turn 'em on. That's kind of where we see this going. And I like the configuration piece. Some people say composability, I mean now with open source so popular, you don't have to have to write a lot of code, this code being developed. And so it's into integration, it's configuration. These are areas that we're starting to see computer science principles around automation, machine learning, assisting open source. Cuz you got a lot of code that's right in hearing software, supply chain issues. So infrastructure as code has to factor in these new dynamics. Can you share your opinion on these new dynamics of, as open source grows, the glue layers, the configurations, the integration, what are the core issues? >>I think one of the major core issues is with all that power comes complexity, right? So, you know, despite its expressive power systems like Kubernetes and declarative APIs let you express a lot of complicated and complex stacks, right? But you're dealing with hundreds if not thousands of these yamo files or resources. And so I think, you know, the emergence of systems and layers to help you manage that complexity is becoming a key challenge and opportunity in, in this space. >>That's, I wrote a LinkedIn post today was comments about, you know, hey, enterprise is a new breed. The trend of SaaS companies moving our consumer comp consumer-like thinking into the enterprise has been happening for a long time, but now more than ever, you're seeing it the old way used to be solve complexity with more complexity and then lock the customer in. Now with open source, it's speed, simplification and integration, right? These are the new dynamic power dynamics for developers. Yeah. So as companies are starting to now deploy and look at Kubernetes, what are the things that need to be in place? Because you have some, I won't say technical debt, but maybe some shortcuts, some scripts here that make it look like infrastructure is code. People have done some things to simulate or or make infrastructure as code happen. Yes. But to do it at scale Yes. Is harder. What's your take on this? What's your view? >>It's hard because there's a per proliferation of methods, tools, technologies. So for example, today it's very common for DevOps and platform engineering tools, I mean, sorry, teams to have to deploy a large number of Kubernetes clusters, but then apply the applications and configurations on top of those clusters. And they're using a wide range of tools to do this, right? For example, maybe Ansible or Terraform or bash scripts to bring up the infrastructure and then the clusters. And then they may use a different set of tools such as Argo CD or other tools to apply configurations and applications on top of the clusters. So you have this sprawl of tools. You, you also have this sprawl of configurations and files because the more objects you're dealing with, the more resources you have to manage. And there's a risk of drift that people call that where, you know, you think you have things under control, but some people from various teams will make changes here and there and then before the end of the day systems break and you have no idea of tracking them. So I think there's real need to kind of unify, simplify, and try to solve these problems using a smaller, more unified set of tools and methodologies. And that's something that we try to do with this new project. Arlon. >>Yeah. So, so we're gonna get into Arlan in a second. I wanna get into the why Arlon. You guys announced that at AR GoCon, which was put on here in Silicon Valley at the, at the community meeting by in two, they had their own little day over there at their headquarters. But before we get there, vascar, your CEO came on and he talked about Super Cloud at our in AAL event. What's your definition of super cloud? If you had to kind of explain that to someone at a cocktail party or someone in the industry technical, how would you look at the super cloud trend that's emerging? It's become a thing. What's your, what would be your contribution to that definition or the narrative? >>Well, it's, it's, it's funny because I've actually heard of the term for the first time today, speaking to you earlier today. But I think based on what you said, I I already get kind of some of the, the gist and the, the main concepts. It seems like super cloud, the way I interpret that is, you know, clouds and infrastructure, programmable infrastructure, all of those things are becoming commodity in a way. And everyone's got their own flavor, but there's a real opportunity for people to solve real business problems by perhaps trying to abstract away, you know, all of those various implementations and then building better abstractions that are perhaps business or applications specific to help companies and businesses solve real business problems. >>Yeah, I remember that's a great, great definition. I remember, not to date myself, but back in the old days, you know, IBM had a proprietary network operating system, so of deck for the mini computer vendors, deck net and SNA respectively. But T C P I P came out of the osi, the open systems interconnect and remember, ethernet beat token ring out. So not to get all nerdy for all the young kids out there, look, just look up token ring, you'll see, you've probably never heard of it. It's IBM's, you know, connection for the internet at the, the layer two is Amazon, the ethernet, right? So if T C P I P could be the Kubernetes and the container abstraction that made the industry completely change at that point in history. So at every major inflection point where there's been serious industry change and wealth creation and business value, there's been an abstraction Yes. Somewhere. Yes. What's your reaction to that? >>I think this is, I think a saying that's been heard many times in this industry and, and I forgot who originated it, but I think that the saying goes like, there's no problem that can't be solved with another layer of indirection, right? And we've seen this over and over and over again where Amazon and its peers have inserted this layer that has simplified, you know, computing and, and infrastructure management. And I believe this trend is going to continue, right? The next set of problems are going to be solved with these insertions of additional abstraction layers. I think that that's really a, yeah, it's gonna >>Continue. It's interesting. I just, when I wrote another post today on LinkedIn called the Silicon Wars AMD stock is down arm has been on a rise. We remember pointing for many years now that arm's gonna be hugely, it has become true. If you look at the success of the infrastructure as a service layer across the clouds, Azure, aws, Amazon's clearly way ahead of everybody. The stuff that they're doing with the silicon and the physics and the, the atoms, the pro, you know, this is where the innovation, they're going so deep and so strong at ISAs, the more that they get that gets come on, they have more performance. So if you're an app developer, wouldn't you want the best performance and you'd wanna have the best abstraction layer that gives you the most ability to do infrastructures, code or infrastructure for configuration, for provisioning, for managing services. And you're seeing that today with service MeSHs, a lot of action going on in the service mesh area in in this community of, of co con, which will be a covering. So that brings up the whole what's next? You guys just announced our lawn at Argo Con, which came out of Intuit. We've had Mariana Tessel at our super cloud event. She's the cto, you know, they're all in the cloud. So they contributed that project. Where did Arlon come from? What was the origination? What's the purpose? Why our lawn, why this announcement? >>Yeah, so the, the inception of the project, this was the result of us realizing that problem that we spoke about earlier, which is complexity, right? With all of this, these clouds, these infrastructure, all the variations around and, you know, compute storage networks and the proliferation of tools we talked about the Ansibles and Terraforms and Kubernetes itself. You can, you can think of that as another tool, right? We saw a need to solve that complexity problem, and especially for people and users who use Kubernetes at scale. So when you have, you know, hundreds of clusters, thousands of applications, thousands of users spread out over many, many locations, there, there needs to be a system that helps simplify that management, right? So that means fewer tools, more expressive ways of describing the state that you want and more consistency. And, and that's why, you know, we built our lawn and we built it recognizing that many of these problems or sub problems have already been solved. So Arlon doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it instead rests on the shoulders of several giants, right? So for example, Kubernetes is one building block, GI ops, and Argo CD is another one, which provides a very structured way of applying configuration. And then we have projects like cluster API and cross plane, which provide APIs for describing infrastructure. So arlon takes all of those building blocks and builds a thin layer, which gives users a very expressive way of defining configuration and desired state. So that's, that's kind of the inception of, And >>What's the benefit of that? What does that give the, what does that give the developer, the user, in this case, >>The developers, the, the platform engineer, team members, the DevOps engineers, they get a a ways to provision not just infrastructure and clusters, but also applications and configurations. They get a way, a system for provisioning, configuring, deploying, and doing life cycle management in a, in a much simpler way. Okay. Especially as I said, if you're dealing with a large number of applications. >>So it's like an operating fabric, if you will. Yes. For them. Okay, so let's get into what that means for up above and below the the, this abstraction or thin layer below as the infrastructure. We talked a lot about what's going on below that. Yeah. Above our workloads. At the end of the day, you know, I talk to CXOs and IT folks that are now DevOps engineers. They care about the workloads and they want the infrastructures code to work. They wanna spend their time getting in the weeds, figuring out what happened when someone made a push that that happened or something happened. They need observability and they need to, to know that it's working. That's right. And is my workloads running effectively? So how do you guys look at the workload side of it? Cuz now you have multiple workloads on these fabric, >>Right? So workloads, so Kubernetes has defined kind of a standard way to describe workloads and you can, you know, tell Kubernetes, I want to run this container this particular way, or you can use other projects that are in the Kubernetes cloud native ecosystem like K native, where you can express your application in more at a higher level, right? But what's also happening is in addition to the workloads, DevOps and platform engineering teams, they need to very often deploy the applications with the clusters themselves. Clusters are becoming this commodity. It's, it's becoming this host for the application and it kind of comes bundled with it. In many cases it is like an appliance, right? So DevOps teams have to provision clusters at a really incredible rate and they need to tear them down. Clusters are becoming more, >>It's kinda like an EC two instance, spin up a cluster. We very, people used words like that. That's >>Right. And before arlon you kind of had to do all of that using a different set of tools as, as I explained. So with Armon you can kind of express everything together. You can say I want a cluster with a health monitoring stack and a logging stack and this ingress controller and I want these applications and these security policies. You can describe all of that using something we call a profile. And then you can stamp out your app, your applications and your clusters and manage them in a very, so >>Essentially standard creates a mechanism. Exactly. Standardized, declarative kind of configurations. And it's like a playbook. You deploy it. Now what's there is between say a script like I'm, I have scripts, I could just automate scripts >>Or yes, this is where that declarative API and infrastructures configuration comes in, right? Because scripts, yes you can automate scripts, but the order in which they run matters, right? They can break, things can break in the middle and, and sometimes you need to debug them. Whereas the declarative way is much more expressive and powerful. You just tell the system what you want and then the system kind of figures it out. And there are these things about controllers which will in the background reconcile all the state to converge towards your desire. It's a much more powerful, expressive and reliable way of getting things done. >>So infrastructure has configuration is built kind of on, it's as super set of infrastructures code because it's >>An evolution. >>You need edge's code, but then you can configure the code by just saying do it. You basically declaring and saying Go, go do that. That's right. Okay, so, alright, so cloud native at scale, take me through your vision of what that means. Someone says, Hey, what does cloud native at scale mean? What's success look like? How does it roll out in the future as you, not future next couple years? I mean people are now starting to figure out, okay, it's not as easy as it sounds. Could be nice, it has value. We're gonna hear this year coan a lot of this. What does cloud native at scale >>Mean? Yeah, there are different interpretations, but if you ask me, when people think of scale, they think of a large number of deployments, right? Geographies, many, you know, supporting thousands or tens or millions of, of users there, there's that aspect to scale. There's also an equally important a aspect of scale, which is also something that we try to address with Arran. And that is just complexity for the people operating this or configuring this, right? So in order to describe that desired state and in order to perform things like maybe upgrades or updates on a very large scale, you want the humans behind that to be able to express and direct the system to do that in, in relatively simple terms, right? And so we want the tools and the abstractions and the mechanisms available to the user to be as powerful but as simple as possible. So there's, I think there's gonna be a number and there have been a number of CNCF and cloud native projects that are trying to attack that complexity problem as well. And Arlon kind of falls in in that >>Category. Okay, so I'll put you on the spot road that CubeCon coming up and obviously this will be shipping this segment series out before. What do you expect to see at Coan this year? What's the big story this year? What's the, what's the most important thing happening? Is it in the open source community and also within a lot of the, the people jogging for leadership. I know there's a lot of projects and still there's some white space in the overall systems map about the different areas get run time and there's ability in all these different areas. What's the, where's the action? Where, where's the smoke? Where's the fire? Where's the piece? Where's the tension? >>Yeah, so I think one thing that has been happening over the past couple of cons and I expect to continue and, and that is the, the word on the street is Kubernetes is getting boring, right? Which is good, right? >>Boring means simple. >>Well, well >>Maybe, >>Yeah, >>Invisible, >>No drama, right? So, so the, the rate of change of the Kubernetes features and, and all that has slowed but in, in a, in a positive way. But there's still a general sentiment and feeling that there's just too much stuff. If you look at a stack necessary for hosting applications based on Kubernetes, there are just still too many moving parts, too many components, right? Too much complexity. I go, I keep going back to the complexity problem. So I expect Cube Con and all the vendors and the players and the startups and the people there to continue to focus on that complexity problem and introduce further simplifications to, to the stack. >>Yeah. Vic, you've had an storied career, VMware over decades with them obviously in 12 years with 14 years or something like that. Big number co-founder here at Platform. Now you guys have been around for a while at this game. We, man, we talked about OpenStack, that project you, we interviewed at one of their events. So OpenStack was the beginning of that, this new revolution. And I remember the early days it was, it wasn't supposed to be an alternative to Amazon, but it was a way to do more cloud cloud native. I think we had a cloud ERO team at that time. We would to joke we, you know, about, about the dream. It's happening now, now at Platform nine. You guys have been doing this for a while. What's the, what are you most excited about as the chief architect? What did you guys double down on? What did you guys tr pivot from or two, did you do any pivots? Did you extend out certain areas? Cuz you guys are in a good position right now, a lot of DNA in Cloud native. What are you most excited about and what does Platform nine bring to the table for customers and for people in the industry watching this? >>Yeah, so I think our mission really hasn't changed over the years, right? It's been always about taking complex open source software because open source software, it's powerful. It solves new problems, you know, every year and you have new things coming out all the time, right? OpenStack was an example when the Kubernetes took the world by storm. But there's always that complexity of, you know, just configuring it, deploying it, running it, operating it. And our mission has always been that we will take all that complexity and just make it, you know, easy for users to consume regardless of the technology, right? So the successor to Kubernetes, you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but you know, you have some indications that people are coming up of new and simpler ways of running applications. There are many projects around there who knows what's coming next year or the year after that. But platform will a, platform nine will be there and we will, you know, take the innovations from the the community. We will contribute our own innovations and make all of those things very consumable to customers. >>Simpler, faster, cheaper. Exactly. Always a good business model technically to make that happen. Yes. Yeah, I think the, the reigning in the chaos is key, you know, Now we have now visibility into the scale. Final question before we depart this segment. What is at scale, how many clusters do you see that would be a watermark for an at scale conversation around an enterprise? Is it workloads we're looking at or, or clusters? How would you, Yeah, how would you describe that? When people try to squint through and evaluate what's a scale, what's the at scale kind of threshold? >>Yeah. And, and the number of clusters doesn't tell the whole story because clusters can be small in terms of the number of nodes or they can be large. But roughly speaking when we say, you know, large scale cluster deployments, we're talking about maybe hundreds, two thousands. >>Yeah. And final final question, what's the role of the hyperscalers? You got AWS continuing to do well, but they got their core ias, they got a PAs, they're not too too much putting a SaaS out there. They have some SaaS apps, but mostly it's the ecosystem. They have marketplaces doing over $2 billion billions of transactions a year and, and it's just like, just sitting there. It hasn't really, they're now innovating on it, but that's gonna change ecosystems. What's the role the cloud play in the cloud native of its scale? >>The, the hyperscalers, >>Yeahs Azure, Google. >>You mean from a business perspective? Yeah, they're, they have their own interests that, you know, that they're, they will keep catering to, they, they will continue to find ways to lock their users into their ecosystem of services and, and APIs. So I don't think that's gonna change, right? They're just gonna keep, >>Well they got great I performance, I mean from a, from a hardware standpoint, yes, that's gonna be key, right? >>Yes. I think the, the move from X 86 being the dominant way and platform to run workloads is changing, right? That, that, that, that, and I think the, the hyperscalers really want to be in the game in terms of, you know, the the new risk and arm ecosystems and the platforms. >>Yeah, not joking aside, Paul Morritz, when he was the CEO of VMware, when he took over once said, I remember our first year doing the cube. Oh the cloud is one big distributed computer, it's, it's hardware and he got software and you got middleware and he kind over, well he's kind of tongue in cheek, but really you're talking about large compute and sets of services that is essentially a distributed computer. >>Yes, >>Exactly. It's, we're back on the same game. Vic, thank you for coming on the segment. Appreciate your time. This is cloud native at scale special presentation with Platform nine. Really unpacking super cloud Arlon open source and how to run large scale applications on the cloud Cloud Native Phil for developers and John Furrier with the cube. Thanks for Washington. We'll stay tuned for another great segment coming right up. Hey, welcome back everyone to Super Cloud 22. I'm John Fur, host of the Cuba here all day talking about the future of cloud. Where's it all going? Making it super multi-cloud clouds around the corner and public cloud is winning. Got the private cloud on premise and edge. Got a great guest here, Vascar Gorde, CEO of Platform nine, just on the panel on Kubernetes. An enabler blocker. Welcome back. Great to have you on. >>Good to see you >>Again. So Kubernetes is a blocker enabler by, with a question mark. I put on on that panel was really to discuss the role of Kubernetes. Now great conversation operations is impacted. What's interest thing about what you guys are doing at Platform nine? Is your role there as CEO and the company's position, kind of like the world spun into the direction of Platform nine while you're at the helm? Yeah, right. >>Absolutely. In fact, things are moving very well and since they came to us, it was an insight to call ourselves the platform company eight years ago, right? So absolutely whether you are doing it in public clouds or private clouds, you know, the application world is moving very fast in trying to become digital and cloud native. There are many options for you do on the infrastructure. The biggest blocking factor now is having a unified platform. And that's what we, we come into, >>Patrick, we were talking before we came on stage here about your background and we were gonna talk about the glory days in 2000, 2001, when the first as piece application service providers came out, kind of a SaaS vibe, but that was kind of all kind of cloudlike. >>It wasn't, >>And and web services started then too. So you saw that whole growth. Now, fast forward 20 years later, 22 years later, where we are now, when you look back then to here and all the different cycles, >>I, in fact you, you know, as we were talking offline, I was in one of those ASPs in the year 2000 where it was a novel concept of saying we are providing a software and a capability as a service, right? You sign up and start using it. I think a lot has changed since then. The tooling, the tools, the technology has really skyrocketed. The app development environment has really taken off exceptionally well. There are many, many choices of infrastructure now, right? So I think things are in a way the same but also extremely different. But more importantly now for any company, regardless of size, to be a digital native, to become a digital company is extremely mission critical. It's no longer a nice to have everybody's in the journey somewhere. >>Everyone is going digital transformation here. Even on a so-called downturn recession that's upcoming inflation's here. It's interesting. This is the first downturn in the history of the world where the hyperscale clouds have been pumping on all cylinders as an economic input. And if you look at the tech trends, GDPs down, but not tech. >>Nope. >>Cuz the pandemic showed everyone digital transformation is here and more spend and more growth is coming even in, in tech. So this is a unique factor which proves that that digital transformation's happening and company, every company will need a super cloud. >>Everyone, every company, regardless of size, regardless of location, has to become modernize their infrastructure. And modernizing Infras infrastructure is not just some new servers and new application tools, It's your approach, how you're serving your customers, how you're bringing agility in your organization. I think that is becoming a necessity for every enterprise to survive. >>I wanna get your thoughts on Super Cloud because one of the things Dave Ante and I want to do with Super Cloud and calling it that was we, I, I personally, and I know Dave as well, he can, I'll speak from, he can speak for himself. We didn't like multi-cloud. I mean not because Amazon said don't call things multi-cloud, it just didn't feel right. I mean everyone has multiple clouds by default. If you're running productivity software, you have Azure and Office 365. But it wasn't truly distributed. It wasn't truly decentralized, it wasn't truly cloud enabled. It didn't, it felt like they're not ready for a market yet. Yet public clouds booming on premise. Private cloud and Edge is much more on, you know, more, more dynamic, more real. >>Yeah. I think the reason why we think super cloud is a better term than multi-cloud. Multi-cloud are more than one cloud, but they're disconnected. Okay, you have a productivity cloud, you have a Salesforce cloud, you may have, everyone has an internal cloud, right? So, but they're not connected. So you can say okay, it's more than one cloud. So it's you know, multi-cloud. But super cloud is where you are actually trying to look at this holistically. Whether it is on-prem, whether it is public, whether it's at the edge, it's a store at the branch. You are looking at this as one unit. And that's where we see the term super cloud is more applicable because what are the qualities that you require if you're in a super cloud, right? You need choice of infrastructure, you need, but at the same time you need a single pain, a single platform for you to build your innovations on regardless of which cloud you're doing it on, right? So I think Super Cloud is actually a more tightly integrated orchestrated management philosophy we think. >>So let's get into some of the super cloud type trends that we've been reporting on. Again, the purpose of this event is to, as a pilots, to get the conversations flowing with with the influencers like yourselves who are running companies and building products and the builders, Amazon and Azure are doing extremely well. Google's coming up in third cloudworks in public cloud. We see the use cases on premises use cases. Kubernetes has been an interesting phenomenon because it's become from the developer side a little bit, but a lot of ops people love Kubernetes. It's really more of an ops thing. You mentioned OpenStack earlier. Kubernetes kind of came out of that open stack. We need an orchestration and then containers had a good shot with, with Docker. They re pivoted the company. Now they're all in an open source. So you got containers booming and Kubernetes as a new layer there. What's the, what's the take on that? What does that really mean? Is that a new defacto enabler? It >>Is here. It's for here for sure. Every enterprise somewhere else in the journey is going on. And you know, most companies are, 70 plus percent of them have won two, three container based, Kubernetes based applications now being rolled out. So it's very much here, it is in production at scale by many customers. And the beauty of it is, yes, open source, but the biggest gating factor is the skill set. And that's where we have a phenomenal engineering team, right? So it's, it's one thing to buy a tool >>And just be clear, you're a managed service for Kubernetes. >>We provide, provide a software platform for cloud acceleration as a service and it can run anywhere. It can run in public private. We have customers who do it in truly multi-cloud environments. It runs on the edge, it runs at this in stores are thousands of stores in a retailer. So we provide that and also for specific segments where data sovereignty and data residency are key regulatory reasons. We also un OnPrem as an air gap version. >>Can you give an example on how you guys are deploying your platform to enable a super cloud experience for your >>Customer? Right. So I'll give you two different examples. One is a very large networking company, public networking company. They have, I dunno, hundreds of products, hundreds of r and d teams that are building different, different products. And if you look at few years back, each one was doing it on a different platforms but they really needed to bring the agility and they worked with us now over three years where we are their build test dev pro platform where all their products are built on, right? And it has dramatically increased their agility to release new products. Number two, it actually is a light out operation. In fact the customer says like, like the Maytag service person cuz we provide it as a service and it barely takes one or two people to maintain it for them. >>So it's kinda like an SRE vibe. One person managing a >>Large 4,000 engineers building infrastructure >>On their tools, >>Whatever they want on their tools. They're using whatever app development tools they use, but they use our platform. >>What benefits are they seeing? Are they seeing speed? >>Speed, definitely. Okay. Definitely they're speeding. Speed uniformity because now they're building able to build, so their customers who are using product A and product B are seeing a similar set of tools that are being used. >>So a big problem that's coming outta this super cloud event that we're, we're seeing and we've heard it all here, ops and security teams cuz they're kind of too part of one theme, but ops and security specifically need to catch up speed wise. Are you delivering that value to ops and security? Right. >>So we, we work with ops and security teams and infrastructure teams and we layer on top of that. We have like a platform team. If you think about it, depending on where you have data centers, where you have infrastructure, you have multiple teams, okay, but you need a unified platform. Who's your buyer? Our buyer is usually, you know, the product divisions of companies that are looking at or the CTO would be a buyer for us functionally cio definitely. So it it's, it's somewhere in the DevOps to infrastructure. But the ideal one we are beginning to see now many large corporations are really looking at it as a platform and saying we have a platform group on which any app can be developed and it is run on any infrastructure. So the platform engineering teams, >>You working two sides of that coin. You've got the dev side and then >>And then infrastructure >>Side side, okay. >>Another customer like give you an example, which I would say is kind of the edge of the store. So they have thousands of stores. Retail, retail, you know food retailer, right? They have thousands of stores that are on the globe, 50,000, 60,000. And they really want to enhance the customer experience that happens when you either order the product or go into the store and pick up your product or buy or browse or sit there. They have applications that were written in the nineties and then they have very modern AIML applications today. They want something that will not have to send an IT person to install a rack in the store or they can't move everything to the cloud because the store operations has to be local. The menu changes based on, It's a classic edge. It's classic edge. Yeah. Right. They can't send it people to go install rack access servers then they can't sell software people to go install the software and any change you wanna put through that, you know, truck roll. So they've been working with us where all they do is they ship, depending on the size of the store, one or two or three little servers with instructions that >>You, you say little servers like how big one like a net box box, like a small little >>Box and all the person in the store has to do like what you and I do at home and we get a, you know, a router is connect the power, connect the internet and turn the switch on. And from there we pick it up. >>Yep. >>We provide the operating system, everything and then the applications are put on it. And so that dramatically brings the velocity for them. They manage >>Thousands of them. True plug and play >>Two, plug and play thousands of stores. They manage it centrally. We do it for them, right? So, so that's another example where on the edge then we have some customers who have both a large private presence and one of the public clouds. Okay. But they want to have the same platform layer of orchestration and management that they can use regardless of the location. So >>You guys got some success. Congratulations. Got some traction there. It's awesome. The question I want to ask you is that's come up is what is truly cloud native? Cuz there's lift and shift of the cloud >>That's not cloud native. >>Then there's cloud native. Cloud native seems to be the driver for the super cloud. How do you talk to customers? How do you explain when someone says what's cloud native, what isn't cloud native? >>Right. Look, I think first of all, the best place to look at what is the definition and what are the attributes and characteristics of what is truly a cloud native, is CNC foundation. And I think it's very well documented where you, well >>Con of course Detroit's >>Coming here, so, so it's already there, right? So, so we follow that very closely, right? I think just lifting and shifting your 20 year old application onto a data center somewhere is not cloud native. Okay? You can't put to cloud native, you have to rewrite and redevelop your application and business logic using modern tools. Hopefully more open source and, and I think that's what Cloudnative is and we are seeing a lot of our customers in that journey. Now everybody wants to be cloudnative, but it's not that easy, okay? Because it's, I think it's first of all, skill set is very important. Uniformity of tools that there's so many tools there. Thousands and thousands of tools you could spend your time figuring out which tool to use. Okay? So I think the complexities there, but the business benefits of agility and uniformity and customer experience are truly them. >>And I'll give you an example. I don't know how clear native they are, right? And they're not a customer of ours, but you order pizzas, you do, right? If you just watch the pizza industry, how dominoes actually increase their share and mind share and wallet share was not because they were making better pizzas or not, I don't know anything about that, but the whole experience of how you order, how you watch what's happening, how it's delivered. There were a pioneer in it. To me, those are the kinds of customer experiences that cloud native can provide. >>Being agility and having that flow to the application changes what the expectations of the, for the customer. >>Customer, the customer's expectations change, right? Once you get used to a better customer experience, you learn >>Best car. To wrap it up, I wanna just get your perspective again. One of the benefits of chatting with you here and having you part of the Super Cloud 22 is you've seen many cycles, you have a lot of insights. I want to ask you, given your career where you've been and what you've done and now the CEO platform nine, how would you compare what's happening now with other inflection points in the industry? And you've been, again, you've been an entrepreneur, you sold your company to Oracle, you've been seeing the big companies, you've seen the different waves. What's going on right now put into context this moment in time around Super >>Cloud. Sure. I think as you said, a lot of battles. Cars being been, been in an asp, been in a realtime software company, being in large enterprise software houses and a transformation. I've been on the app side, I did the infrastructure right and then tried to build our own platforms. I've gone through all of this myself with a lot of lessons learned in there. I think this is an event which is happening now for companies to go through to become cloud native and digitalize. If I were to look back and look at some parallels of the tsunami that's going on is a couple of paddles come to me. One is, think of it, which was forced to honors like y2k. Everybody around the world had to have a plan, a strategy, and an execution for y2k. I would say the next big thing was e-commerce. I think e-commerce has been pervasive right across all industries. >>And disruptive. >>And disruptive, extremely disruptive. If you did not adapt and adapt and accelerate your e-commerce initiative, you were, it was an existence question. Yeah. I think we are at that pivotal moment now in companies trying to become digital and cloudnative that know that is what I see >>Happening there. I think that that e-commerce was interesting and I think just to riff with you on that is that it's disrupting and refactoring the business models. I think that is something that's coming out of this is that it's not just completely changing the game, it's just changing how you operate, >>How you think, and how you operate. See, if you think about the early days of eCommerce, just putting up a shopping cart didn't made you an eCommerce or an E retailer or an e e customer, right? Or so. I think it's the same thing now is I think this is a fundamental shift on how you're thinking about your business. How are you gonna operate? How are you gonna service your customers? I think it requires that just lift and shift is not gonna work. >>Mascar, thank you for coming on, spending the time to come in and share with our community and being part of Super Cloud 22. We really appreciate, we're gonna keep this open. We're gonna keep this conversation going even after the event, to open up and look at the structural changes happening now and continue to look at it in the open in the community. And we're gonna keep this going for, for a long, long time as we get answers to the problems that customers are looking for with cloud cloud computing. I'm Sean Feer with Super Cloud 22 in the Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Thank you. Thank you, John. >>Hello. Welcome back. This is the end of our program, our special presentation with Platform nine on cloud native at scale, enabling the super cloud. We're continuing the theme here. You heard the interviews Super Cloud and its challenges, new opportunities around the solutions around like Platform nine and others with Arlon. This is really about the edge situations on the internet and managing the edge multiple regions, avoiding vendor lock in. This is what this new super cloud is all about. The business consequences we heard and and the wide ranging conversations around what it means for open source and the complexity problem all being solved. I hope you enjoyed this program. There's a lot of moving pieces and things to configure with cloud native install, all making it easier for you here with Super Cloud and of course Platform nine contributing to that. Thank you for watching.

>>the Cube presents H P E discovered 2022. Brought to you by H P E. >>Hi, buddy Dave Balon and Jon Ferrier Wrapping up the cubes. Coverage of day two, hp Discover 2022. We're live from Las Vegas. Vishal Lall is here. He's the senior vice president and general manager for HP ES Green Lake Cloud Services Solutions. Michelle, good to see you again. >>Likewise. David, good to see you. It was about a year ago that we met here. Or maybe nine months >>ago. That's right. Uh, September of last year. A new role >>for you. Is that right? I was starting that new role when I last met you. Yeah, but it's been nine months. Three quarters? What have you learned so far? I mean, it's been quite a right, right? I mean, when I was starting off, I had, you know, about three priorities we've executed on on all of them. So, I mean, if you remember back then they we talked about, you know, improving a cloud experience. We talked about data and analytics being a focus area and then building on the marketplace. I think you heard a lot of that over the last couple of days here. Right? So we've enhanced our cloud experience. We added a private cloud, which was the big announcement yesterday or day before yesterday that Antonio made so that's been I mean, we've been testing that with customers. Great feedback so far. Right? And we're super excited about that. And, uh, you know, uh, down there, the test drive section people are testing that. So we're getting really, really good feedback. Really good acceptance from customers on the data and Analytics side. We you know, we launched the S three connector. We also had the analytics platform. And then we launched data fabric as a service a couple of days ago, right, which is kind of like back into that hybrid world. And then on the marketplace side, we've added a tonne of partners going deep with them about 80 plus partners now different SVS. So again, I think, uh, great. I think we've accomplished a lot over the last three quarters or so lot more to be done. Though >>the marketplace is really interesting to us because it's a hallmark of cloud. You've got to have a market price. Talk about how that's evolving and what your vision is for market. Yes, >>you're exactly right. I mean, having a broad marketplace provides a full for the platform, right? It's a chicken and egg. You need both. You need a good platform on which a good marketplace can set, but the vice versa as well. And what we're doing two things there, Right? One Is we expanding coverage of the marketplace. So we're adding more SVS into the marketplace. But at the same time, we're adding more capabilities into the marketplace. So, for example, we just demoed earlier today quickly deploy capabilities, right? So we have an I S p in the marketplace, they're tested. They are, uh, the work with the solution. But now you can you can collect to deploy directly on our infrastructure over time, the lad, commerce capabilities, licencing capabilities, etcetera. But again, we are super excited about that capability because I think it's important from a customer perspective. >>I want to ask you about that, because that's again the marketplace will be the ultimate arbiter of value creation, ecosystem and marketplace. Go hand in hand. What's your vision for what a successful ecosystem looks like? What's your expectation now that Green Lake is up and running. I stay up and running, but like we've been following the announcement, it just gets better. It's up to the right. So we're anticipating an ecosystem surge. Yeah. What are you expecting? And what's your vision for? How the ecosystem is going to develop out? Yeah. I >>mean, I've been meeting with a lot of our partners over the last couple of days, and you're right, right? I mean, I think of them in three or four buckets right there. I s V s and the I S P is coming to two forms right there. Bigger solutions, right? I think of being Nutanix, right, Home wall, big, bigger solutions. And then they are smaller software packages. I think Mom would think about open source, right? So again, one of them is targeted to developers, the other to the I t. Tops. But that's kind of one bucket, right? I s P s, uh, the second is around the channel partners who take this to market and they're asking us, Hey, this is fantastic. Help us understand how we can help you take this to market. And I think the other bucket system indicators right. I met with a few today and they're all excited about. They're like, Hey, we have some tooling. We have the manage services capabilities. How can we take your cloud? Because they build great practise around extent around. Sorry. Aws around? Uh, sure. So they're like, how can we build a similar practise around Green Lake? So again, those are the big buckets. I would say. Yeah, >>that's a great answer. Great commentary. I want to just follow up on that real quick. You don't mind? So a couple things we're seeing observing I want to get your reaction to is with a i machine learning. And the promise of that vertical specialisation is creating unique opportunities on with these platforms. And the other one is the rise of the managed service provider because expertise are hard to come by. You want kubernetes? Good luck finding talent. So managed services seem to be exploding. How does that fit into the buckets? Or is it all three buckets or you guys enable that? How do you see that coming? And then the vertical piece? >>A really good question. What we're doing is through our software, we're trying to abstract a lot of the complexity of take communities, right? So we are actually off. We have actually automated a whole bunch of communities functionality in our software, and then we provide managed services around it with very little. I would say human labour associated with it is is software manage? But at the same time we are. What we are trying to do is make sure that we enable that same functionality to our partners. So a lot of it is software automation, but then they can wrap their services around it, and that way we can scale the business right. So again, our first principle is automated as much as we can to software right abstract complexity and then as needed, uh, at the Manus Services. >>So you get some functionality for HP to have it and then encourage the ecosystem to fill it in or replicated >>or replicated, right? I mean, I don't think it's either or it should be both right. We can provide many services or we should have our our partners provide manage services. That's how we scale the business. We are the end of the day. We are product and product company, right, and it can manifest itself and services. That discussion was consumed, but it's still I p based. So >>let's quantify, you know, some of that momentum. I think the last time you call your over $800 million now in a are are you gotta You're growing at triple digits. Uh, you got a big backlog. Forget the exact number. Uh, give us a I >>mean, the momentum is fantastic Day. Right. So we have about $7 billion in total contract value, Right? Significant. We have 1600 customers now. Unique customers are running Green Lake. We have, um, your triple dip growth year over year. So the last quarter, we had 100% growth year over year. So again, fantastic momentum. I mean, the other couple, like one other metric I would like to talk about is the, um the stickiness factor associated tension in our retention, right? As renewal's is running in, like, high nineties, right? So if you think about it, that's a reflection of the value proposition of, like, >>that's that's kind of on a unit basis, if you will. That's the number >>on the revenue basis on >>revenue basis. Okay? >>And the 1600 customers. He's talking about the size and actually big numbers. Must be large companies that are. They're >>both right. So I'll give you some examples, right? So I mean, there are large companies. They come from different industries. Different geography is we're seeing, like, the momentum across every single geo, every single industry. I mean, just to take some examples. BMW, for example. Uh, I mean, they're running the entire electrical electric car fleet data collection on data fabric on Green Lake, right? Texas Children's Health on the on the healthcare side. Right On the public sector side, I was with with Carl Hunt yesterday. He's the CEO of County of Essex, New Jersey. So they are running the entire operations on Green Lake. So just if you look at it, Barclays the financial sector, right? I mean, they're running 100,000 workloads of three legs. So if you just look at the scale large companies, small companies, public sector in India, we have Steel Authority of India, which is the largest steel producer there. So, you know, we're seeing it across multiple industries. Multiple geography is great. Great uptake. >>Yeah. We were talking yesterday on our wrap up kind of dissecting through the news. I want to ask you the question that we were riffing on and see if we can get some clarity on it. If I'm a customer, CI or C so or buyer HP have been working with you or your team for for years. What's the value proposition? Finish this sentence. I work with HPV because blank because green like, brings new value proposition. What is that? Fill in that blank for >>me. So I mean, as we, uh, talked with us speaking with customers, customers are looking at alternatives at all times, right? Sometimes there's other providers on premises, sometimes as public cloud. And, uh, as we look at it, uh, I mean, we have value propositions across both. Right. So from a public cloud perspective, some of the challenges that our customers cr around latency around, uh, post predictability, right? That variability cost is really kind of like a challenge. It's around compliance, right? Uh, things of that nature is not open systems, right? I mean, sometimes, you know, they feel locked into a cloud provider, especially when they're using proprietary services. So those are some of the things that we have solved for them as compared to kind of like, you know, the other on premises vendors. I would say the marketplace that we spoke about earlier is huge differentiator. We have this huge marketplace. Now that's developing. Uh, we have high levels of automation that we have built, right, which is, uh, you know, which tells you about the TCO that we can drive for the customers. What? The other thing that is really cool that be introduced in the public in the private cloud is fungible itty across infrastructure. Right? So basically on the same infrastructure you can run. Um, virtual machines, containers, bare metals, any application he wants, you can decommission and commission the infrastructure on the fly. So what it does, is it no matter where it is? Uh, on premises, right? Yeah, earlier. I mean, if you think about it, the infrastructure was dedicated for a certain application. Now we're basically we have basically made it compose herbal, right? And that way, what? Really? Uh, that doesnt increases utilisation so you can get increased utilisation. High automation. What drives lower tco. So you've got a >>horizontal basically platform now that handle a variety of work and >>and these were close. Can sit anywhere to your point, right? I mean, we could have a four node workload out in a manufacturing setting multiple racks in a data centre, and it's all run by the same cloud prints, same software train. So it's really extensive. >>And you can call on the resources that you need for that particular workload. >>Exactly what you need them exactly. Right. >>Excellent. Give you the last word kind of takeaways from Discover. And where when we talk, when we sit down and talk next year, it's about where do you want to be? >>I mean, you know, I think, as you probably saw from discovered, this is, like, very different. Antonio did a live demo of our product, right? Uh, visual school, right? I mean, we haven't done that in a while, so I mean, you started. It >>didn't die like Bill Gates and demos. No, >>no, no, no. I think, uh, so I think you'll see more of that from us. I mean, I'm focused on three things, right? I'm focused on the cloud experience we spoke about. So what we are doing now is making sure that we increase the time for that, uh, make it very, you know, um, attractive to different industries to certifications like HIPAA, etcetera. So that's kind of one focus. So I just drive harder at that adoption of that of the private out, right across different industries and different customer segments. The second is more on the data and analytics I spoke about. You will have more and more analytic capabilities that you'll see, um, building upon data fabric as a service. And this is a marketplace. So that's like it's very specific is the three focus areas were driving hard. All right, we'll be watching >>number two. Instrumentation is really keen >>in the marketplace to I mean, you mentioned Mongo. Some other data platforms that we're going to see here. That's going to be, I think. Critical for Monetisation on the on on Green Lake. Absolutely. Uh, Michelle, thanks so much for coming back in the Cube. >>Thank you. Thanks for coming. All >>right, keep it right. There will be John, and I'll be back up to wrap up the day with a couple of heavies from I d. C. You're watching the cube. Mhm. Mm mm. Mhm.

>>from the bellagio hotel >>in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering Ui Path forward. Four brought to you >>by Ui Path. Welcome back from the bellagio in Las Vegas. The Cubans live at Ui Path forward for I'm lisa martin here with Dave Volonte. We're gonna be talking about roadblocks to automation and how to navigate around them, joining us next as Pernando Panini expert associate partner at bain and company per night. Welcome to the program. >>Thanks lisa. Happy to be here. >>Talk to us about some of the use cases that bain is working on with you I Path and then we'll dig into some of those roadblocks that you guys have uncovered. >>Yes. Uh I started a few months ago where we're working with Brandon who's the product lead on the Ui part side. We wanted to understand what's the state of citizen development and what are the blockers and how we should Both from the product side. But also on the automation journey side we need to dig deeper and understand where each of the clients and the employees are going through the journey together >>and if you look at it from the citizen developer perspective, what are some of those roadblocks? >>There are a few. So when like if you before we go to the roadblocks there are three main concerns or I would say critical groups that are involved in being successful with automation. The organization or bu leaders, the I. T. And employees. So each of the groups have different perceptions on like misconceptions or perceptions on benefits of automation and how to go up go about it. The blockers that we have seen where like a three sets of blockers. The first is cognitive where employees are unaware of automation on the benefits of automation and the second one is more organizational where organization leaders and how they feel about automation or how the how they think about employees when we introduce automation to them. One part of that is there is a misconception without nation leaders that employees are fearful of job loss when you introduce automation. What we have seen in our research is it's completely the opposite of employees are eager to adopt automation have given an opportunity, they are willing to upscale themselves and they are willing to save the time so that they can spend that on critical value added activities for um for their customers in the process. And a third blocker that we have seen is more on the product side where the some of the employees that we talked to as much as progress has been made by RPF vendors and local local vendors. It's still these tools are not intuitive user friendly for business users. They still feel they need to go through some training programs and have a better user friendly interface is >>what's the entry point she would organization first time I ever heard of Arpaio Years and years and years ago was at a CFO conference. Okay so that's cool. It seems like it forward for there's a lot more C. I. O presence here and that. Is that relatively new or did I just miss it before? >>It is relatively new. So like when we looked at like in the past few years the empty point has been someone in finance or I. T. Has heard about R. P. A. The benefits of head. They went and bought a handful of licenses and then they went and implemented it but it's just a handful of processes. It's not organizational wide. It has been mostly on a smaller sub scale of processes. And projects now that like organizations are realizing employees are asking and we are like slowly growing up with automation ceo es it's now it's intersecting with the C XL level of if it has to intersect with your or if you want to reinvent your business through automation, it has to come from the sea X level and that's where we're seeing more and more. See IOS are being involved in decisions on automation journeys, the technologies they have to buy and adopt for the business processes. >>So I. T. Can be an enabler of course. Also sometimes it can be a blocker. Um and you know, certainly from security standpoint governance etcetera. And so one of the things that we heard today in the keynotes was you don't want to automate the C I. O. He or she owns this application portfolio and everybody wants to do new projects because that's the fun stuff we heard from one CFO. Yeah. You add up all the NPV from the new projects. It's bigger than the valuation of the company. Right. But the C i O is stuck having to manage the infrastructure and all the processes around the existing application portfolio. One of things I heard today was don't automate an application or a process that you're trying to retire because we never get rid of stuff in it. So I wonder should automation like an enterprise wide automation? Should there be kind of an application rationalization exercise or a business process rationalization coincident with that >>initiative? Absolutely. I think that was one of the blockers that we have seen. Like some of the misconceptions and some of the blockers when I looked at it for them, they consider like you're bringing all these tools you're asking business users to like who haven't had haven't been trained in technology or programming, You're asking them to build these automation ins So one they have to manage with the all the applications and the tools for all that happens. And to manage these automation is after business users have either left the company or moved on. So it is essential for them to think through and provide a streamline tools it on on two aspects. one it needs to be as as you started off, it needs to be an enabler to provide them the specific tools that they can, they have already blessed. They've curated it which are ready for business consumption. A second part I can also do is providing collaboration platforms so that business users can learn from each other and from it so that they can one are developing the right processes with the right methodology that is governed by I. T. And no security or data governance issues. Come through. >>One of the things that you mentioned in terms of the three roadblocks ceo uncovered was that you were surprised that the results of the research showed that in fact employees are really wanting to adopt automation. In fact I think the stat is um 86% of employees want automation but only 30% of leaders are giving them the opportunity to use that. That's a big gap. Why do you think that is >>so a few things. Right. I mean as we talked about the three constituents that you have right one is automation leaders. If you consider from them. Their view is their employees are not capable of adopting or building on the automation is using these tools and they need technical skills. But the all the automation vendors have made progress and if you look at the tools today are much more user friendly and business users are willing to adopt. The second part as we talked about is like the fear of job loss from the employee standpoint. Whereas employees are looking at it as an opportunity for them to up skill but also eliminate the pain points that they have today in the day to day activities using the automation tools. And for them it is like this is helping them spend the time with the customers where it matters on critical value added activities versus going through reparative process of the journey. And the third part we talked about earlier with I. T. I. T. Has this notion that they need to build and develop anything technical. Business users will not be able to build or manage and they're also worried about the governance, the security and the third part which you brought up earlier is that tool sprawl, It's like we need to manage like this volume of tools that are coming in which is only adding to their plate of already busy busy workforce. >>I have one of those. It depends questions and it's a good consultant I'm sure you say well it depends but are there patterns best practice or even more than best pressures? Are there sort of play books if you will? And patterns? I'm sure it's situational. But are you seeing patterns emerge, you can say okay this sort of category should approach it this way. Here's another one in a different, maybe it's a department bottoms up top down, can you help us sort of squint through that? >>Yeah. So in terms of approaches like at least up till now the prevalent thing that is happening is like C. O. Es went and buy some licenses they talk about like opportunities that they have. So it's more of a top down driven uh like ceo driven agenda. What we're seeing now especially with citizen automation or democratisation of automation is there's a new approach of including employees into the journey and bringing the bottoms up approach. So there's a happy path where you marry up the top down approach with bottoms up and one you will find opportunities which are organizational wide with the bu leaders and they are ones which are on the long tail of opportunities which employees feel the pain but I. T. Or C. O. He doesn't have the time to come and implement or automate these activities. Um considering like one part we have seen which is increasingly helpful for people who have done this properly is including employees. And one thing we talked yesterday is invest in employees. They consider automation as investment in employees rather than something they're doing to employees. So it's kind of collaborating with employees to make progress which seems to be helping evangelize and also benefit with automation. How >>Have the events of the last 18 months impacted this as well, we've seen so much acceleration and the mandate for automation. What are some of the things that you've seen? >>Sure. So for us like even before the pandemic we've seen in our research so like more than close to 50% of the organizations that they started the automation journey were unable to achieve the savings or targets that they set themselves for whatever the success factors are. Which which hard. A few reasons one they didn't have the organizational support, not they were taking the end to end journey or a customer journey to figure out like what are these big opportunities that they can go through and they haven't included employees and to figure out what are the major pain points to go through the journey. One thing it was clear was with covid, no one expected this kind of disruption in a pan and a pandemic. There are a lot of offshore centres or like pretty much different geography is got disconnected from the work that's being done. You still need to support your customers, there is still a higher demand, what do you do? It's not like you can scale up your employees in a pandemic, that's where like we have seen increasing push towards automation and technology to see that can help and support and scale in a pandemic environment uh and also help your customers in the journey. >>So has in your opinion has automation become a mandate? Uh As a result of the pandemic >>I would say. Yeah I I would consider it's more of like now it's become a I would say uh business won a competitive differentiator to say like one I needed to keep my lights on and resiliency but also the companies have done really well they saw the advantage and they whether the pandemic better with the customers now they use that as a platform to create a competitive differentiation against their peers and push things forward. >>one of the things we heard of today and the keynotes is you got to think about my words, the life cycle, you don't just put in the bot and then just leave it alone. You really have to think through that. And that seems to me to be where you would help customers think through how to get the most return out of their investment. You I passed product company I think it's great. And so you talk about the value layer that you guys bring. >>So for us it's it's like when we talked to mostly be bringing from the business side of the house to understand what are the key drivers that you need to work on. I mean even before we talk about technology, we talk about, let's understand from the customer standpoint what is your customer journey into end and look through that journey lens and let's take the process and to end, let's look at redesigning process and making it more optimal and streamlined and where technology fits in. That's when we talk about like if it is an RPG or if it's a UI Path platform that can support, let's go through that journey versus taking the tool itself as the solution and trying to find every nail that you can hurt, which usually is not sustainable to your point. Like we need to think through the whole life cycle, make sure this is going to last. Or if you are retiring. Like in the ceo panel that was a discussion where that we need to think through when we are going to retire and make sure like we are in that journey versus building all these automation zor bringing all these tools and leaving them alone for I. T. To manage long term. >>No. Again the last 18 months. Again, question about the the um reactions catalyzed facilitated thinking about those three roadblocks. The cognitive roadblocks the organizational roadblocks since particularly what I'm interested in this question and product, what are some of the conversations that you've seen or trends that you seem to help those organizations better understand how to collaborate with each other so that what they're not doing is putting in our P. A point tools but really starting to build the right part of the nomination and and journey into their digital transformation plans. Yeah. >>I mean in a way to again, I'll go back to the three concerns that we talked earlier, right? It's it can only go so far and automate so much because they haven't seen the business lens of like how the processes are what they have to do and to end, which is where you need to involve the business leaders who can give you that view from the business side and employees who are seeing the work day to day and where they can eliminate the pain points. So the organisms that are successful, they are creating a collaborative environment between the three groups to push things forward. You >>have to have that collaboration that's critical. Otherwise, that's probably one of the road blockers as well. >>Yeah, absolutely. >>Where does automation fit? I mean you're obviously heavily into automation, but let's think about the bane portfolio, the boardroom discussions. Where does automation fit? I mean there's security, there's how do we embed ai into our business? How do we sas if I our business um how do we do transform digitally? Where's automation fit in that hole discourse? >>So I think the automation is like at the heart of digital transformation, the part which we have seen where the gap is is not taking the business angle and actually thinking through the process and to end versus picking up a tool and trying to go solve a problem or find a problem to solve. And that's where we think in our discussions with boardrooms, it's more of let's think through how you want to reimagine your company or how you want to be more competitive looking into the future and like walk back from that standpoint and then started part from, I mean, the way we call it the future back like where you are today and now, like let's go forward and to what your end status and where technology broadly a digital tools and where automation fits in the process. >>How do you see what you i path is talking about at this conference? The announcements from yesterday? There's a lot of people here which is fantastic. How do you see what they're announcing? The vision that they set out a couple years ago that they're now delivering on. How is that a facilitator of organizations removing those roadblocks? Because as you said automation is a huge competitive differentiator these days and If we've learned nothing in the last 19 months you gotta you gotta be careful because there's always a competitor in the rear view mirror who might be smaller faster more agile ready to take your place. >>Yeah so like a few things that we've seen in the product roadmap that you talked about is they are providing the collaboration platform or tools where the I. T. Business owners can work through. Like for automation hub is what they talked at length yesterday is that's the platform where business users can provide their ideas. Like you provide process mining tools which can capture the process and the business users understand the process and they are the ones who are putting in an opportunity on the road map. So you have now a platform where all the ideas are being catalogued and once you implement they're being tracked on the automation hub so that that is providing a platform for everyone to collaborate together. The second one which Brandon talked yesterday is the tool itself for Studio X. When we're talking about citizen developers, employees trying to use and make it more user friendly. Is that where the Studio X which is providing that you are interface? Which is easy intuitive for business users to build basic automation is and try to take that long tail of opportunities that we talked about. So all these tools are coming together as one platform play, which you ipod has been talking about all through the conference and that is critical for everyone to collaborate to make a progress versus only thinking it's an easy job to implement the automation opportunities. That >>collaboration is business critical these days. Right. Thank you for joining David me and the program talking about some of the roadblocks that you've uncovered, but also some of the ways that organizations in any industry can navigate around them and really empower those employees who want automation in their jobs. We appreciate your insights. >>Happy to be here. Thanks for having us. You're welcome >>for day Volonte. I'm lisa martin live in las Vegas at UI Path forward for we'll be right back with our next guest. Yeah. >>Yeah. Mm. Mhm

>>last decade. The >>major vectors of power in >>tech. We're cloud, mobile >>social and big data. Network computing >>architectures were >>heavily influenced by the mobile leg of that stool with bring your own devices and the SAs >>ification of the enterprise. >>The next 10 years are going to see a focus on instrumented the edge and leveraging architectures that provide a range of capabilities from very small embedded devices, too much larger systems that span hybrid it installations, they move data across clouds and then to the very far edge. >>And is so often the >>case consume arised IOT technology is rapidly driving innovations for enterprise IOT. What are the key trends, challenges and opportunities >>that this >>sea change brings and how should we think about the expanding network >>universe and what will it take to >>thrive in this new environment? Hello everyone. This is Dave Volonte. Welcome back to HPD discovered 2021. You're watching the cubes, virtual coverage of H P. S annual customer event. And with me to discuss the next decade >>of IOT innovation >>and enablement is David Logan, who's the vice president and >>Ceo for the >>Americas for >>HP. Es. Aruba >>networks. David, Welcome to the cube, come on in. >>Thanks so much. It's my pleasure to be here today with you. So >>if the last decade was all about mobile that was legit, it was really driven by the iphone and android adoption and we've been hearing about IOT >>for a long time. >>What's >>the impetus behind the current >>focus on IOT is a >>connected cars, connected homes. What's making it >>real this >>time? From your point of view? >>You know, it's it's really almost everything at once. Uh if you look at how um IOT systems had been developed over the past 10 years, it was super industry specific, A lot of, a lot of mitch implementations, um a lot of product vendors trying to become an IOT platform play. But with all of that innovation that's taken place, it's been additive over the past 10 years. Now. The next 10 years, we're really looking at a phenomenal amount of growth, a phenomenal amount of uh increased innovation to bring IOT solutions to almost any industry for any purpose, whether it's a horizontal need or or a vertical need, that's >>so you guys use terms like solutions, enablement IOT solutions, it's a real big focus of HBs Edge to cloud narrative. I wonder if you could add a little color and some details behind that and explain how Aruba fits in. >>I'll be glad to. So um, H p S Edge to cloud strategy is a really accurate term. Ultimately, the Edge is where IOT solutions are first enabled and it's where data is born, it is where end user experiences live and Aruba's role in Edge to cloud architectures is to provide the connectivity, the performance assurance, the ability to commingle what were once parallel architectures into common infrastructure, common operating platforms and allow this data that's born at the edge to go all the way to the hybrid cloud infrastructure, wherever it needs to go, whether it's an IOT and user application, whether it's an IOT subsystem for industry or or for vertical industry or for vertical enterprise, um the Aruba infrastructure really provides this common operating platform at the edge so that the rest of the enterprise can benefit from what's once transpiring >>when you think about the >>sort of >>candidates for IOT at the enterprise level. I mean, the edge obviously is very fragmented and and of course the big industrial giants, they're on a path there digitizing, they're collecting data, they're driving new monetization initiatives and you know, they got the budgets to do that. Can can smaller companies come to this party. >>Absolutely. And it's really the consumer is ation of IOT that's really driving that. As you mentioned in some of your opening statements, um, the consumer is ation of computing with mobile computing architecture, sas clarification of applications and the extension of the enterprise application environment to the end user with their consumer devices as opposed to their enterprise issue devices. We're seeing the same effects in IOT now, the Consumer Ization of IOT, the release of the amazon echo in 2014, all of the smart tv technology, all of the in home home automation technology that's been developed for individual use cases, for conglomerated use cases. It is this innovation that is now being able to be brought into the enterprise either in the form of pure consumer technology. Just take a look inside your average student dorm room, how much digital technology they brought in, But it's in a it's in an enterprise setting in the university. Uh think about hospitals, health care that have brought in technology to facilitate their particular processes. The consumer is a shin will allow digital experiences to be delivered to the patient in their in their in their treatment suite, for example. So we're gonna see this really drive over the next 10 years quite quite uh quite a significant amount of interesting new use cases. >>Just a quick aside, David, I mean, that Echo example is kind of interesting because when you think about the predominant use cases for AI at the enterprise, it's it's largely modeling that's taking place in the cloud. But when you think about the predominance of AI on whether it's smartphones or you mentioned things like Echo, it's that's kind of a i influencing at the edge, facial recognition is another good example that's bleeding into the enterprise. And it's as you as you know, we've talked about up top it sort of points the way and informs the enterprise, much like the Consumer ization of it. >>Absolutely. Um organizations like Microsoft google amazon, they're really leading the charge from from uh both the Consumer ization perspective but also a developer enablement perspective, bringing the ability for a. I machine learning very specific capabilities. Like you mentioned, video recognition to be able to be brought into enterprise application environments by a developer so that they don't necessarily need to know how to develop that full ai ml stack but can incorporate that capability into their end user applications. And then it's going to lead to brand new productivity innovations that an enterprise can benefit from. Uh It's gonna lead to certainly new business models, it's gonna lead to the ability to integrate um Federated Systems together. Whether it's a business model between two enterprises or whether it's uh the how a particular enterprise operates their own business. It's gonna be, it's gonna be really fascinating. >>I was reading about hand recognition of security. You go beyond fingerprint recognition, it should now be hacked. Let's talk about the market. Everybody talks about the tam, you know, pick your trillion, 1,000,000,001 trillion two trillion. It's a huge total available market, as I said, very fragmented. So how do you think about segmenting the market? How should we think about the different categories of of IOT and solutions and architectures? >>Well, you know, every every organization is easily category categorized by their industry, healthcare, higher education, industrial retail. They all have their particular operating models that generally speaking, have a lot of similarities. And so when we think about market and market segmentation and I think it's first important to think about the particular vertical that enterprise organization belongs to. And then, you know, innovators like like us here in Aruba, we think about how do these particular industries need solutions? And then we look across them for horizontal opportunities, for example, within Aruba's solution set the ability to uh go through rapid iOT device onboarding and security policy process and procedures that's pretty universally applicable across many different industries. But at the same time when you when you look inside a particular vertical, like a heavily industrialized setting, they want to collapse there. OT infrastructure and their I O. T. And I. T. Infrastructure altogether. And they're going to need some very specific solutions to do that. Um, whether it's the ability to guarantee data flow from the edge to the cloud, whether it's security, performance, assurance, whatever their needs, are there going to be very unique to them too. And so looking at it by vertical first is important and then I think sending by size makes sense. And then as we were talking about earlier, the Consumerism nation of IOT systems is really going to bring the ability for medium and smaller organizations to benefit from a lot of these innovations. >>Another another aside maybe it's not a quicker side, but you get the O. T. And the I. T. You know, T. Engineers that are pretty hard core about the way they do things and you got it folks, they have security edicts and compliance and so forth. Kind of how how are they working together? Like who's driving the bus and that >>convergence. You know, every organization has their own operating culture. They have there their prior way of doing things and then they have the future and the real key here for leadership honestly the real key here for organizational leadership, solution, technology leadership in these organizations is to figure out how to bring everybody together the booty uh responsible part of the organization. The folks that are in the line of business, the folks are in biomedical engineering in a health care organization. They know what the end application is, they know what the systems behaviors are going to be from an end user's perspective or from a from a technology perspective as it's applied at the edge, the I. T. Team knows how to build and operate and maintain a bus nature that is all co mingled together is all integrated together. They're going to have to work together so that they understand the end user applications, the experiences that need to be delivered the system's architecture and then how it needs to be operated. But the reason they need to come together is it needs to be using a common enterprise architecture to do so. Common network infrastructure, common computing storage, data platforms at least from a standards perspective, so that the enterprise can get operational efficiency so they can really have the one plus one equals three value proposition moments when multiple systems come together. >>So a couple things we just hit their the organizational challenges, the architectural challenges. You don't want to have more stovepipes? Everybody talks about stovepipes and and data silos. Are there any other challenges that you note that an organization faces in planning and implementing an IOT solutions architecture from your perspective are the organizational, we talked about that. They were talking about some technical and any others that we might have missed, >>you know. Um It's interesting when you look inside at enterprise that has some decent best practices or some good best practices for implementing their their enterprise IOT frameworks. Um as I mentioned, bringing the organization together uh from the end user perspective and the experiences that they need from the operational perspective and the operational technology bleeding into or merging into I. T. Technology. Clearly there's there's that organizational component, but that then needs to map into a newly refined enterprise architecture last decade, you know, the nineties and two thousands, 2010, we talked about enterprise architecture a lot, it was a lot about client server and it was a lot about migrating from legacy application architecture is into next gen and web dato and now it's all about machine to machine and mobile and post mobile. And that means the enterprise architecture that maybe got dusty on the shelf needs to be pulled off and re implemented. And interestingly, as a networking vendor, what we've seen as a best practice is these enterprise organizations recognize that with cloud and mobile and IOT and vendors playing such a such an important role that a lot of control and a lot of visibility has been pulled away from the classic enterprise I. T. Organization and looking at the network as the place where experiences come to uh at the places where uh as to where um instrumentation of the overall end to end architecture can come together. And so they're really now starting to look at the network as as a far more important component than perhaps they did four or five years ago where it might have just been four bars of wifi or connectivity from branch to headquarters. >>When I think about enterprise architectures, I definitely go to workloads like, okay, how is work? How is work that's being done in the enterprise changing and you obviously have a lot of general purpose E R P and financials and Crm and HCM etcetera. You've got this emerging set of workloads that's data intensive, whether it's A I or you know, whatever, whatever you call, some people call matrix workloads, but all the kind of new, interesting, you know, data intensive workloads and then there's a ton of work being done that's just don't even supporting applications directly, it's it's making storage run better or networks run better and so it's kind of wasted cycles if you will. So yeah, I talked a lot of people who are kind of rethinking that architecture to your point based upon the type of work that's being done and obviously things like influencing at the edge that we talked about a little bit earlier, uh are gonna drive that in the enterprise and that's really gonna put new requirements on the architecture, is it not? >>Absolutely. In fact, this is, this is core to the HP edge to cloud strategy and architecture. Ultimately, every organization is going to be different, they have different use cases, different, different business requirements. But um, we are going to find over the next 10 years that a significant amount of the data that is born at the edge and the experiences that are delivered at the Edge need a local presence of computer and communications to enable what needs to, what needs to take place locally from an operations perspective, Let me give you a concrete example. I mentioned health care a couple of times, imagine the healthcare environment of a large healthcare network organization and they need to consume patient telemetry information from all of their patient bedside monitoring systems. At the point at the point of patient care, well, what if the point of patient care is in a hospital tower? What if the point of patient care is in the patient's home? That's a completely different set of circumstances, physically and logically from an enterprise architecture perspective. And so it's particularly important to think through how data will be born at the edge, consumed locally, processed locally. And then forwarded to hybrid cloud computing environments for continued processing after the fact. So you might need to react immediately to some patient telemetry that's collected locally, but then also collect that information processing and the metadata stored somewhere else, maybe maybe haven't diverge into multiple streams? And in all of this, the computing architecture at the edge, the hybrid cloud architecture, the network architecture from edge to cloud all matters because this involves security, involves availability, involves performance, it involves how the data itself is used, the experience of the end users that are responsible for the delivery of the, Of the experience itself. So the ultimate enterprise architecture here is going to evolve yet again. And just as we've seen over 30 years, the centralization, the decentralization, the centralization, the distribution of various functions. We're just we're just seeing that again, because we continue to reinvent how we operate with better and better architectural models, >>right. Pendulums definitely swinging when you, when I think about the compute at the local level, I think it's gonna be super, super high performance and dirt, cheap and low power. Um, and I want to ask you a question about something you said earlier about your strategy is really to look for those horizontal opportunities. So am I right to and for you're not going after the, the deep edge with, you know, specialized capabilities or are you? I think Tesla, right. I mean, you know, designing their own chips for their cars, you're not going there, I presume. But you also reference, hey, there's gonna be some data that's coming back, that's kind of your role. But maybe you can help clarify that for me. >>Yeah, so, so interesting. We are in a way going after the special edge cases, but that's through the creation of an architecture that is malleable enough where you can define an enterprise network architecture and enterprise network experience that will address the horizontal, easy to understand use cases like mobile devices that need wifi connectivity or mobile devices that need bluetooth connectivity or Zig B or what have you. But also we have found that through again through consumer is ation of IOT systems that um, I O T specific technologies for very specific edge use cases are still embedding common access technologies, common networking technologies, common security protocols, um Common orchestration capabilities for compute as some examples. And so what we are building is the ability for uh an enterprise architect or an enterprise network architect to define a single network architecture physically that can commingle lots of different perhaps parallel network architectures into a single common platform and then operate it even though that it might consume multiple, many parallel types of systems ultimately operated as one single entity. Um That honestly, that's the power of the Aruban architecture is even though we have to physically deploy access points and switches and SD WAN gateways to create whatever the enterprise network architecture looks like, It's all driven by software and it's all driven by common interfaces that at some point get down to. Okay, I can actually connect that kind of strange device because it has enough commonality so that I can plug in this USB adapter into this access point. And all of a sudden I've got this connectivity for this very specialized thing transporting specialist protocol across an I. P. Network. So it's um it's really the blend of looking for horizontal opportunities so that we attacked the market effectively but also make sure we don't leave anybody behind in the process just because they've got a specialized need. >>Thank you for that clarification. So room is going to participate in the entire value chain that we've sort of laid out here and visualized. What do you think's going on? Maybe we can talk about the vendor landscape the pretenders from the contenders. What are the keys in your view to the product solutions, the right clarity of vision? Uh maybe some things that haven't been invented yet. How do you how do you think about that? >>Yeah, so um a lot of lessons learned over the past 10 years, I would say um there have been a number of very prominent enterprise technology companies, facilities, tech, um a vertical oriented solutions for healthcare, for industrial settings and they've all at one point or another tried to build a platform strategy, they have decided to self anoint or anoint themselves with, we're going to be the platform for some particular horizontal function inside the enterprise that involves IOT because we want to be the centerpiece where all this data from all these IOT systems concerning this particular environment flows through and we want to help democratize data access. Um Unfortunately most of them still took a very vendor specific point of view about it, even even by layering standards on top of what they've built, um even forming industry consortiums, they haven't necessarily achieved critical mass of what we would all like to see, which is full democratization of IOT solution architectures and IOT data access and I think we're gonna see that over the next 10 years, it's gonna take a while but I think um you know to to your question of what are some interesting uh interesting products or technologies to be developed? Um I think uh industries working together vendors working together like Microsoft like google like amazon like Aruba HP like um in ocean which is an industry consortium, these places where we come together and decide to achieve the greater good to achieve greater benefits for our enterprise customers and build a platform capabilities using standards using open source, using consume arised tech using really critical functions in orchestration, configuration management, aPI architectures, standard standard object models for how how information is communicated. I think that we will be able to democratize IOT data access, I think we'll be able to democratize how IOT systems are deployed and dramatically expand the market opportunity for the benefit of everybody. >>Yeah, we've certainly seen those types of collaborations before, I'm not sure it's ever been this large. Maybe the internet was this large, but that was kind of more government driven than it was a vendor driven, which is your land, give us the bumper sticker for Y H P E in Aruba. >>Well, you know, um HBs in a really um in a really interesting position, we really are enabling the entire edge to cloud architecture, as we've mentioned a few times and the ability to lay out the foundation of the infrastructure for communications for compute for storage regardless of how an enterprise organization wants to consume it, whether it's all at the edge or all in private data centers or in hybrid architecture, whether they want to control the entire architecture top to bottom, whether they want us to help them deploy and manage the architecture on their behalf with industry partners. Ultimately, we are giving them a set of building blocks into end that will coexist with whatever they've already built, help them build a malleable architecture and going forward in the future and really helped them achieve economies of scale, >>David, Very interesting discussion. Thank you so much for your perspectives. Really appreciate you coming on the cube. >>Thank you. Thank you so much. Dave. I really appreciate the time and I'm uh I'm really excited to be part of discover, >>awesome. And thank you for watching this segment of H. P. E. Discovered 2021. You're watching the cube. This is David. Want to keep it right there. Mhm.

>>Good morning. Good, absolute and good evening to all >>those who are listening to this presentation. >>I am rather to Saxena and I manage the platform >>solutions and the thought body operating systems team in the compute workload and solutions group within HP compute >>today I'm >>going to discuss about containers >>and what containers >>do for you >>as a customer >>and why >>should you consider h PE container solutions >>for transforming your business? >>Let's talk about how some of >>the trends seen >>in the industry are impacting the >>customer's day >>in and >>day out and what is it that >>they really need >>cloud services >>and continue your ization, increase operational flexibility, agility and >>speed. >>But non native >>apps seem >>to be a serious issue. >>These legacy apps >>and architecture slow the >>development team, >>making it much harder to meet competitive demand >>and cost pressures. It administrators are >>looking for a way to quickly deploy and manage the resources there. Developers need. >>They want to release more >>updates more quickly. Digital transformation has really shifted >>its focus >>from operations. Two applications, it's all >>about gaining the agility to deploy code faster >>developers want the >>flexibility to choose from a variety of >>Os or containerized ab stacks and to have fast access >>to the resources >>they need. And Ceos >>and line >>of business owners need visibility >>into cost >>and usage so they can optimize their >>spend and drive >>higher utilization of >>their resources. >>So let's define what >>is container technology. >>Container >>technology is a method used to package >>an application >>and software. >>It is a game changer. >>Let's take a closer look at at a couple of >>examples within each area. In the area of cost savings, we achieve savings by reducing the virtualized footprint and by reducing administrative overhead >>through the introduction >>of CIA >>CD pipelines. >>In terms of agility, >>this helps you become more a child by enabling >>your workload portability. It also >>shortens development >>life cycle while increasing the frequency >>of application updates. Within innovation, container platform technologies >>provides >>centralized >>images and source code >>through standard >>repositories, decoupling of application dependencies >>and use of templates >>leading to enhancing >>collaboration. This kick starts your innovation >>container technology would bring >>these benefits to enterprise it and accelerate the transformation of business. >>H. P. E has the proven >>architecture and expertise for the introduction >>of container technology. >>Apps and >>data are no longer centralized in >>the data center. >>They live >>everywhere at the edge, >>in Carlos, >>in the cloud and >>in the data center. This creates >>enormous complexity for application operability >>performance >>and security >>customers are looking >>for a way >>to simplify >>speed and scale their apps and that's driving a rise in container adoption. >>Managing these >>distributed environments requires different skill sets, >>tools and processes >>to manage both >>traditional and cloud environments. >>It is complex >>and time consuming >>all of these workloads are also very >>data dependent Ai >>data analytics and that modernization are the key entry points for >>HB >>Admiral to >>intercept the transformation budget. >>A study from I. T. >>C. Found that >>More than 50 of enterprises are leveraging containers >>to modernize legacy applications >>as is >>without re architect in them. >>These containers are often then deployed >>in on premise cloud environments using kubernetes and Docker. Re implementing legacy applications >>as >>cloud native microservices >>has proven >>more difficult >>than expected, >>held back by the scarcity of the experienced Microsoft >>talent to do that work. >>As a result, only half >>of the new containers deployed leverage microservices >>for cloud native apps. one key element of the >>HB approach is to reduce the effort >>required to >>continue to rise these existing applications. >>One platform for non cloud native and cloud >>native apps >>is the H P E. S. Moral >>container platform. >>Hp Green Lake brings the >>true cloud >>experience to your cloud >>native and non cloud native apps without >>costly. Re factoring with cloud services for containers through Hve Green Lake >>continue rising. >>Non cloud native apps, >>improves >>efficiency, >>increases agility >>and provides >>application affordability. >>Simple applications can take about three months >>while complex once >>up to a year to re factor >>with cloud services for >>containers through HP Green Lake >>customers can save this time and get the benefits >>With 100 open source kubernetes right away with HP >>Asmal >>container platform, non cloud native state fel. Enterprise apps can be deployed in containers without >>costly re factoring >>enabling customers to bring speed and agility >>to non cloud native apps >>with ease. Hp Green Lake is a >>single platform for war clothes and helps customers avoid the cost of moving data and apps and run walk clothes >>securely from the edge >>call occasions >>and data centers >>while meeting the needs for the agency, >>data sovereignty >>and >>regulatory compliance >>with unique type. The >>HBs milk container platform >>provides a container management control plane >>with the fully integrated >>Hve Admiral data fabric. >>The HBs real container platform >>integrates a high performance distributed >>file, an >>object storage. >>These turnkey >>pre configured >>cloud connected >>solutions >>are delivered in >>As little as 14 days and managed for you by HP. E and our partners so >>customers do not need to skill up on kubernetes. >>The key differentiators >>for H. >>B. S. Merrill are providing a complete >>solution that addresses >>a broad set of applications and a consistent multi cloud deployment and management platform. It solves the data integrity >>and application recovery issues >>central >>to business critical >>on >>premise applications. >>It maintains the commitment to open source to ensure customers >>can take >>advantages of future developments >>with these distributions. >>It reduces >>development effort and moves application development >>to self service. >>Now let us look at >>some customer success stories with HBs Merrill. Here is a >>customer who modernize >>their existing legacy applications. >>There were a lot of blind >>spots in the system and the >>utilization >>Was just about 10%. By transitioning to containers, they >>were able to get >>50 >>eight times faster in just performance, reducing a significant >>portion of the cost of >>the customers deployment, significant >>reduction in infrastructure >>footprint resulting >>in lower TCO >>and with HB Green Lake, they received cloud agility >>at a fraction >>of the cost of the alternatives. This customer is expanding its efforts into machine >>learning and >>analytics technologies >>for decision support in areas >>of ingesting and processing large data sets. >>They are enabling data science >>and >>such based applications >>on large >>and low late in data sets using a combination of >>patch >>and streaming transformation processes. >>These data sets support both offline and in line machine learning, deep learning training >>and model execution >>to deploy these >>environments at >>scale and >>move from >>experimentation >>to >>production. They need to connect the dots between their devops teams and the data science teams >>walking on machine learning >>and analytics from an inch for such a standpoint. They're using containers >>and kubernetes >>to drive greater agility >>and flexibility as well as cost savings and efficiency >>as they are >>operationalized. >>These machine >>learning deep learning >>and analytic initiatives. >>This includes >>automated configuration of software stacks and the deployment of data pipeline bills >>in containers. >>The developers >>selected kubernetes >>as the container >>orchestration engine for the enterprise >>and is using H >>P E S, real container >>platform >>for their machine learning >>deep learning and analytic war clothes. This customer had a growing demand for >>data scientists >>and their goals >>were >>to gain continuous insights into existing and new customers >>and develop innovative products >>and get them to >>market faster amongst others. >>The greater >>infrastructure utilization >>on premises resulted in >>significant cost savings Around $6 million three years >>and significantly improved environment >>provisioning time >>From 9 to 18 months to just about 30 minutes. And along those lines, >>there are many >>more examples >>of customer success stories across various industries >>that proved >>transitioning >>to the HP. Es. >>Moral container >>solutions can be >>a total game changer by the way. HB also >>provides container solutions on with various software vendors. >>This customer >>was eager to >>embrace a giant abb development techniques >>that would allow them >>to become more a child >>scalable >>and affordable, helping to deliver >>an exceptional customer service >>and avoid vendor lock in HB. partnered with >>them to deploy >>red hat, open shift running on HP hardware, >>which became a new container >>based devoPS >>platform, effectively >>running on bare metal for >>minimal resource >>overheads and maximum performance. >>The customer now had a platform >>that was capable of supporting >>their virtualization and continue realization ambitions. >>Now let us see how HB Green Lake can help >>you reduce costs, >>risk and time you get speed, time >>to value >>with >>pre integrated hardware, >>software and services the HP ES moral platform to >>design and build >>container based >>services and cell service, catalog and marketplace for rapid >>provisioning >>of these services, >>you get lower risk to the business >>with >>fully managed by contained by HP >>container experts. >>Proactive resolution >>of incidents, >>active capacity management to scale with demand, you can reduce costs >>by avoiding >>upfront capital expense >>and over >>provisioning with pay per use model >>intuitive dashboard for >>cluster costs and storage. >>HB also has a huge >>differentiator when it >>comes to security. >>The HBs. Silicon Root >>of Trust >>secures your >>data at the microcode level >>inside the processor itself, ensuring >>that your digital assets >>remain protected and secure >>with your continued authorization strategy >>built on the world's >>most >>secure industry standard servers, >>you'll be able to >>fully concentrate your resources on your modernization efforts. >>Additionally, >>you can enjoy >>benefits such as HP >>form where threat detection >>along with the with other best in class >>innovations from H B such as malware detection >>and Form where recovery. Your HP servers >>are protected >>from >>silicon to >>software >>and at every touch >>point in between >>preventing bad >>actors from gaining access to containers or infrastructure. >>H B E can help accelerate >>your transformation >>using >>three pillars. >>Hp Green Lake, >>you can deploy >>any workload as a service >>with >>HP Green Lake Services, >>you can now bring >>cloud >>speed >>agility and as a >>service model >>to wear your >>apps and data are today transform the >>way you do business >>with one experience >>And one operating model >>across your distributed clouds >>for apps >>and data >>at the edge in coal occasions >>and in your data center. HB point Next services >>with over >>11,000 >>I'd projects conducted >>And 1.4 million >>customer interactions each year. >>HB point X Services, >>15,000 plus experts and its vast >>ecosystem of solution >>partners and channel partners >>are uniquely able to help you at every stage >>of your digital transformation because we address >>some of the biggest >>areas that can slow you down. >>We bring together technology >>and expertise >>to help you drive >>your business forward >>and last but not the least. >>Hp Financial services, >>flexible investment >>capacity are key >>considerations >>for businesses >>to drive digital transformation initiatives >>in order to forge a path forward. You need >>access two flexible >>payment options >>that allow you to match icty costs >>to usage. >>From helping release >>capital from existing infrastructure, two different payments >>and providing >>pre owned tech >>to relieve capacities. Train >>HP Financial >>services unlocks the value of the customer's entire >>estate from >>edge >>to cloud >>to end user >>with multi vendor >>solutions consistently and sustainably >>around the world. HB Fs >>makes I'd >>investment >>force multiplier, >>not a stumbling block. >>H B S. Moral >>and HB compute are the >>ideal choice >>for your container Ization strategy, >>combining familiar silver hardware >>with a container platform that has been >>optimized for the environment. >>This combination is >>particularly cost effective, >>allowing you to capitalize on existing hardware skills >>as you focus >>on developing innovative >>containerized solutions. >>H beef Admiral >>fits your existing infrastructure and provides potential to scale as required. >>And with that, >>I conclude this session and I hope >>you found this valuable. There are many resources available at hp dot >>com that you can use >>to your benefit. Thank you once again.

>> From Times Square, in the heart of New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Imagine 2018. Brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Manhattan at the Automation Everywhere Imagine 2018. About 1,100 people talking about RPA, Robotics Process Automation, bots, really bringing automation to the crappy processes that none of us like to do in our day to day job. And, we're excited to have a practitioner. He's out in the field. He's talking to customers all the time. It's Weston Jones, and he's the global intelligent automation leader for EY. Weston, great to see you. >> Yeah, thank you, good to be here. >> Absolutely, so it's funny, you said you've been with these guys for a number of years, so when did you get started, how did you see the vision when nobody else saw it, and here we are five years later, I think, since you first met 'em. >> Oh, I know, it's just funny. I mean, years ago I saw Automation Anywhere at conferences. They were one of the small booths, just like everybody else was, talking about automation. I watched them for several years, and then I decided one year when we were looking at some of our offerings to bring in RPA and talk to our leadership about it, and kinda the light bulbs went off. So, from five, six years ago 'til today we've been working with them, and it's really amazing to see kind of how things have changed, and how the adoption has taken place. >> You know, it's such a big moment in a startup, especially software company, when you get a big global integrator like you guys to jump in, you know, advisory service. It's really hard to do. I've been in that position myself, and you guys don't make the move unless you really see a big opportunity. So, what did you see in terms of the big opportunity that made you, you know, basically bet your career on this vertical? >> Well, so when I went to our leadership, in the meeting I had our global shared services leader. So, we have 7,000 plus people on our shared services, and he was very skeptical. We had to do 20 plus proof of concepts with him, and HR, IT, finance, et cetera, to get him excited about it. Now, he's our biggest fan, and actually we promoted him to run our global internal automation team where now we think we're one of the largest users of automation. We're one of the biggest users within tax. We use Automation Anywhere within tax. We have over 750 bots working, and we have a goal to have 10,000 plus by 2022. So, we're really pushing the bar in scaling. >> From 750 to 10,000, what are we, 2018, in four years. >> In four years. That's our goal. >> So, where did you find the early successes, what kind of bots specifically, what type of processes are kind of right for people that are interested, see the potential, but aren't really sure kinda how to get started, or to get that early success? >> Yeah, I mean, it's just almost like anything else, the quick wins, you know. Start with things that are very rules-based, that have a lot of people, FTs associated with them. You know, our thing wasn't that we were actually eliminating FTs, we were just developing capacity, 'cause we're a company that's growing, so instead of hiring more and more people, we took all that mundane work out of people's jobs and allowed them to focus on things that were more value-added. So, the block and tackle stuff-- >> Like what? Like, give me a couple of, you know, just simple stuff-- >> well, we have like HR onboarding, you know, we onboard 60,000 people a year. HR onboarding is something that's very repetitive activity, logging in and out of multiple systems. And, it was something where we were hiring HR professionals that knew how to do talent management, that knew how to do all these things we really wanted them to do, but we had 'em focused on doing a lot of very transactional type activities. So, we said why don't we use the technology for that. Let's free these people up so they can then focus on developing talent, career ladders, other things that we really wanted them to focus on. Other things like, you know, payments, matching, and payment application, things like that, password resets, you know, a lot of stuff that you, I mean, you can just think of in your head. A lot of stuff in finance, a lot of stuff in HR and IT. Even our supply chain, too. We're doing like T and Es, we're doing a lot of automation in our T and E area. But, that to say, I mean, I've mentioned all back office things. We're also doing a lot of front office. So, for example, in our tax department we use almost exclusively Automation Anywhere to do tax returns for clients. And, we have, I think, over a million plus hours that we've eliminated using Automation Anywhere. >> Now, how do you Automation Anywhere a tax return? >> Well, tax return is a very complex set of rules, and you basically, once you kind of load the rules in for certain activities, it's stuff like pulling data from one system into another, you know, doing multiple taxed jurisdictions. >> Is it just like particular steps within that, you just kinda pick off one little process at a time, one little process at a time? >> True, and then you can also put in, you can do a nice interface in the front, and you can have people giving you the data, and then you let the automation then get the data to the right parts within the tax return. >> So, I'm curious in terms of the people that create the bots. Who are they, kinda what skill sets do they have, and do you see that changing over time as you try to go from 750, whatever it is, a 20x multiple, over four years? Do you see kinda the population of people that are able to create and implement the bots growing? How do you, kinda, managing the supply side on on that? >> We have a philosophy that 70% of it's process, 30% of it's technology. We're fortunate that in our advisory area across all the major functional areas, supply chain, HR, finance, et cetera, we have process experts. So, we use those process experts to get the process down, and then what we do is we have core development teams around the world. We have a big team in India, a big team in Costa Rica. We have a team in China, and elsewhere. And, those are the developers. And, so our process people map out the process and then hand that off to the developer. So, developers, you know, we basically, I mean, with Automation Anywhere's help, we've trained them to do the work and they've made it more and more, as time goes on, they made it easier and easier for them to develop bots. And, so We've been able to take people almost right out of college. We've hired some high school students. We take people that, you know, two thirds of the American population doesn't have a college degree, so we hire non-college degrees and teach them how to do this. Not that it's easy, and to be really good you have to have time and experience, but we can teach them to do these types of activities for us. >> That's amazing. So, I wonder if you can share what are some of the biggest surprises, you know, kind of implementation surprises, or ROI types of surprises that you found in implementing these 750. >> Yeah, so one thing I tell people about is if you talk about the Gartner Hype Curve, you go up and you fall into the valley of disillusionment, and, you know, there's gonna be four or five of those valleys that are gonna happen, and you just need to power through them because the technology is so compelling, and the benefits are so compelling. I mean, there's over a dozen benefits whether it's cost savings, improved security, better accuracy, whatever. So, some of the surprises were scaling. Like, when I talk about the DIPSS, the D-I-P-S-S, DIPPS, the first one is gonna be data. People are gonna realize that their data isn't quite there in order to do the more intelligent activities. The integration, so integrating the RPA with the more intelligent pieces of the IQ bot, and other things, how do you do those integrations, how do you take other tools outside of that and integrate them. The third is penetration. I mean, penetration is very small right now. What happens is people tend to look at a whole process that needs to be automated when what you need to do is you need to think about breaking those processes apart. Like FPNA, for example, may have a couple dozen steps to it, but there are pockets of steps that are very automatable. For example, pulling data, structuring it, normalizing it, getting it into some kind of report, that can all be done by automation, then hand it off to someone to do more cognitive activities. So, the penetration is very small right now, but will continue to grow. The savings, you know, have realistic expectations on savings. When this first came out of the door a lot of people were talking very, very high numbers. I mean, you can get it every once in a while, but, the saving numbers, just be realistic about that. And, the last part is scaling. We found scaling to be something that, you know, at the time when we were doing it, very few people had done it. So, to figure out how do you scale, and how do you develop a bot control room, how do you manage the bots, how do you manage the bots interfacing with people, how do you manage the bots interfacing with other technologies. It's a lot more to it than just putting the bot up and letting it work, because they need care and feeding ongoing, because it's not related to the Automation Anywhere technology, it's more of the other things it touches, like website changes, like upgrades to different systems that the bot has to execute with. Those are gonna constantly change and you just need to make sure you're adjusting the bot to actually work in those environments. So, those are kinda the four or five things that we've seen. And, when we go from 750, to 1,000, to 10,000, I mean, we think we're gonna see much more orchestration type things. You know, how do you orchestrate in a more automated way across the bots, the people, and then the other technology. >> Right, it's funny on the scale issue 'cause they were talking about, you know, how do you go from 10 bots, you got 750 to 10,000, and there's been a concept under it that they are a digital workforce, implying that you have to manage 'em like a workforce. You gotta hire 'em, you gotta train 'em, you gotta put 'em in place, you gotta kinda keep an eye on 'em, you gotta review 'em every now and then, and really it's an active management process, it's not just set and forget. >> Yeah, we're hoping that we'll have, I mean, we have some of this already, but we'll have bots managing bots. Well, bots auditing bots. We'll have bots orchestrating bots. That's all gonna eventually happen. I think we can do some of it today, but it's gonna be more and more common. The orchestration piece is really the thing that is gonna be new, that is gonna drive a lot of people this hard to scale. >> The other two consistent themes that you just touched on that we talked a little bit before we turned the cameras on, is Amara's Law, my favorite. You know, we overestimate the short term, which Gartner might call the Hype cycle, but we underestimate in the long term. Really, the other one is kinda just DevOps, and there's DevOps as a way to write code, but I think, more importantly, is DevOps as a culture, which is just look for little wins, little wins, little wins, little wins, little wins, and, before you know it, you've automated a lot and you're gonna start seeing massive returns on that effort versus the, oh, let's throw it in, we're gonna get this tremendous cost savings on day zero, day one, or day 10, or whatever it is. That's really not the strategy. >> Well, I think a lot of people maybe don't like to hear this, but it's a journey. I mean, you start out using the technology where you can. So, it's not a technology play, it's solving your biggest, most complicated problems, that's the key. And, whatever technology you need to do that, use that. So, you do the RPA, then you get more benefit when you add the IQ bots, and the intelligent stuff, and you get more benefit when you start adding, you know, technologies that are even ancillary, like Blockchain, IoT, and things like that. You'll get more and more kind of benefits from this technology. >> All right, Weston, well, thank you for sharing your stories. It's good to get it from the front lines. And, good luck on making 20,000 bots in four years. >> Thank you, thank you. >> He's Weston, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE from Automation Anywhere Imagine 2018. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

live from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the cues covering vmworld 2016 rock you buy vmware and its ecosystem sponsors well welcome back inside mandalay bay as we continue our coverage at vmworld here on the cube along with peter burrows i'm john walls are now joined by David Cabrera Solutions Architect CDW and leek as well vice president product storage for the VMware storage and availability business unit gentlemen thanks for being here good to see you great to hear house show going so far for you oh it's on fire man did we give a tiger by the tail here that's been great don't let go don't let go even though this for a long time and we were just talking about your history your back i said yeah i first got into virtualization back at y2k wow I remember that how far we've come huh and yeah yeah again I did it why i use it for y2k testing and then from there i worked for a disaster recovery services company and we have these customers katrina rita in 911 they just came in with their stuff and i didn't have enough physical servers to you know in their contract to recover their businesses and they were taking out vmware evaluation licenses to get their businesses up and running and vmware was super supportive of that and they knew you know the licenses would come and wow yeah it was it was like rust in the esxi or ESX at the time I you know just it's actually you know easy and as we think about what's happening on hyper conversions now right yeah it's the same idea right I mean it was actually practicality you not a necessity right of using VMware because gosh I needed to do it for kind of TCO reasons and what happened was esxi started out at the fringe almost right and then came roaring into the you know into the core as people realize hey I really can run like mission-critical applications business collapse the same trajectory is happening now with VC an HCI right and our DCM writing notes we're starting off like outside startup VDI test and dev right you know all that you know to management clusters right but now what's happening the majority of applications mates business apps right yeah yeah it's it I firmly 1,000% believe that you know any application can run ova n no I say and it's we were talking about this i still have customers they they talk about running exchange or sequel on physical servers and I'm like why so now you take all those benefits of virtualization and you add v san on top of it and make everything totally portable on on just you know commodity based hardware and you know pretty soon our job as storage architects building figuring out sans and raid groups and you know how big my lund is supposed to be who cares throw some storage in the server adam as you need and keep going well to that point lee you're talking before we went on the air here about how people you know professionals company who's saying i want to get my attention from here to up here all right i want to be able to look at business and not so much about what's going on behind the scenes in the back office is this thing i was even at CDW recently right we're talking about how long it takes to train someone on enterprise storage versus you know the actually the less you know about storage that the more a hyper conversion system words to what you expect i add a note yeah of course it gets bigger right i mean why wouldn't it right so the idea that you can get people trained up not just using the product but actually selling the product I mean it's actually a very interesting dynamic one of the other interesting things we're seeing right now is just a overlap of flash right all flash right which first you know blue you know came blazing onto the scene for performance right for an application is now coming in because customers want to spend less time actually man is that looking down I want to look down anymore right and so the idea that the customer satisfy you arts because the risk of Miss configuring something actually really low right it is you know that nearly as much time and you don't worry about it right right so you have the performance you need you have the space you need you know you get the deduplication and and it just as you will you need more performance you need more space at another node and on top of that you get compute memory and everything else so their stores some challenges associated with applications and selecting the technology and there's a lot of transformation and transition there's a lot of new technologies coming online that's right even in the storage world so how is virtualization helping customers or helping protect customers for making bad choices with current products now one thing you want to look at is where do I manage this from right how many silos do I have right and so the extent that you can leverage the Center for example right as a common management domain not just for storage by the way right well we started off with compute right they get source we also have networking right so what we have today with NSX right integrating that together we've heard what we announced the show here there it is this VMware cloud foundation great way to go and integrate right all the rich functionality and now you've got it in one user interface right that simplifies the deployment and then the support right making everything easy so you know putting everything together plug it in run a wizard everything's set up for you and it and it's set up the way it should be yeah so it's not as dependent upon the underlying type or choice that you made about storage it's now more what does the application need and let's just point the application at the pool yeah so so there's still I still see you know there's going to be those needs where that super low latency super fast care that shared storage is going to be critical and is going to be needed for specific applications but all that other stuff all that normal day-to-day web servers applications email file shares all that stuff you can just throw it on there and it works you don't have to worry about all the silos and all the different management people that you need so going back to John's question the day on your point later the idea that getting people to raise up defectives Dave how much time are you now saving not doing the physical stuff actually starting to talk to developers the people are taking all of this day to all these assets and turning it into the business value are you able to spend more time and directly supporting them as you go into customers and design the it does seem like that that shadow IT or DevOps or you know the people that aren't depending or depend on IT the consumer is becoming more of the decision maker or at least the influencer and what what V San brings to the table for those kind of people especially with the automation and and and you know the whole private cloud piece of it it takes down that I call it the IT stop sign okay so you know why is DevOps going to the public cloud because it's easy so you have to be as easy as wherever they're going in order to bring them back and and keep that governance on your data and keep your IP where it belongs whether it's in that private cloud or off into a secure more secure public cloud or through a hybrid cloud or whatever v san kind of keeps everything contained for that so yeah and I think there seems to be a trend or at least a thread here that I'm hearing a different conversation here about simplicity right felicity just not keeping things simple for people letting them focus on their core competencies and the right there really what they're paid to do and not distract them away from having to learn like you said it up to speed in 15 minutes as opposed to hours or weeks of training week looks you having these three clicks yeah yes yeah I ask customers pretty routinely now you know what is your budget gonna be is it higher or lower this year the answer it's like it's lower right there like you do you have more people or less people and I call less people they're shrinking data centers right and all of a sudden and then you say well and how many projects do you have like all of every every project now as an IT component right so now it's the pace of change right and so if you don't have to worry about the underlying infrastructure as much now all of a sudden it just becomes easier to start worrying about hey how do I go in scale we had a customer this morning I was talking to Buddy that was talking about well you know the other thing it does is it gives me the opportunity to have kind of bite-size chunks right so the risk of making the wrong decision is actually low right up by a set of servers and as opposed to you know I buy something that's this big where I have to basically predict what's going to happen for the next five years this looks more like hey you know what I kind of have to know what's going to happen over the next six months and then we'll figure it out from there that's today's mentality so easier to change one piece instead of the whole puzzle that I died nobody the dance for that that's a great point it's it there's not that many IT shops that are refreshing their entire data set there are but that's not that many usually it's a silo so but there's always projects PDI some sort of new essay p application or you know we're migrating to a new version of exchange or whatever it is it's okay let's start there and and and and let's just slip it in try it out you'll see you like it it's like sorry it's like crack everybody needs more all right so Rach wait liberal lawyers yeah try it out and you'll see you like it and then from there it'll just roll and and and as the the old siloed equipment starts to age out they'll just easily transition it into visa it's wedding we just get emotional over at a new server shut that down we could we just finished a survey of 250 decent customers and you know one of the things that we were watching is so what about the applications right because when we started like it was hey I'm going to try this in test em I'll try it over here or dr is a good one right I try it and you know it's not i'm not running like my real stuff on it right you know now what we're finding it this year's switched right so we flipped into the majority are now business-critical applications right there an X equal exchange share with the whole Microsoft stack during Oracle databases right there make Percona right i mean of mice equal variance right it's really your singing so all of a sudden they're like that you know there's no real hesitation right and it's the economics that drive this right once you started looking to say you know here's how i can go and do this in more bite-sized chunks starts to become more you know but it's more cloud like i think from that standpoint it's also the risk because as you said you make a design decision today yeah it's not going to be the right design decision in 18 months to make a product decision today it's probably not going to be the right product decision in 18 months you make the right you know you want to your company decides to buy a new company or wants to diverse the vessel you don't want the infrastructure getting in the way of those business decisions so it's it's certainly economics but it's a lot of it has to do with the fact that as you said the pace of change is so great that the only way to ensure that you can keep up is to focus on where the change really needs to be and diminish I focus on where the change isn't as required that make sense it does make sense in you know one of the things that you know degrees of freedom that customers also want is we're finding you know they're pretty used to being able to configure servers and choose their own server all right so the idea that we give choice right running software on a server where you get to choose right i mean we have what 15 different partners right server partners building something called a vc n ready node right so you can take our software pre-configured right to strip out the integration risk if you will there's also some customers who just want like the simplest easiest fully integrated we're working with emc that VX rail product is an integrated CDW offers both of these right so for customers who want just to say I want a single point of support integrated backup I mean that's a world-class product right as an integrated appliance that's one way to buy right one way to deploy but on the other hand if I'm a ucs shop I can go and say hey here's how i get a ucs if I may HPE shop here's how I do it 100 right all works all precor oh oh ya habla del e course right exactly yeah yeah thank you for that by the way so no sway be back yeah value out of the right there we go exactly yeah you know last before your eyes therefore that's all good right right but this this choice right i mean it's interesting because certainly customers are looking at like what level of choice and flexibility do they want and this server choice right is a big one yeah yeah it there's the reason why people buy servers isn't because it's a specific brand I mean you know if you if you look at the open up servers and you look inside it's really it's Intel processors or maybe an AMD processor a bunch of ram and some disks the the software that the vendors offer to manage those or what's important and and it's funny since vcenter mm-hmm even before it was vcenter you know just I guess 20 was it being able to integrate the management of the servers into vcenter and having all those sensors and all that stuff kind of bubble up into vcenter is huge and be able to hook in and take like we realize automation or viewer orchestrator and make it to pull the physical hardware as well as a virtual it's it's big have that in with ES and it just kind of makes it easy so Dave's you working with a lot of customers every single day yep they are also starting to deploy cloud or at least procure plot proud as part of their core strategy talk a bit about about talk a little bit about the challenges associated with intercloud communication and a role that brutalization plays yeah yeah so it's it's still kind of the wild wild west out there with with that I know you know VMware with NSX trying to and that with the new announcements and I haven't fully digested all this stuff from yesterday but it was out just the idea of providing that that kind of peanut butter of policy you know for security and networking and all that from you know whatever you need to keep up button the other way that's a technical term I like that or Paula I like that I have more creative butter of policy in your private cloud and being able to kind of spark that up in in whatever public cloud you choose to use kind of brings that core via you know so vmware's message was always whatever Hardware you have your choice now it's whatever cloud you have your choice yeah it kind of makes sense now and and yet security and the networking is is the biggest piece of it and that if you look at the NIS T official version of hybrid cloud it's it's being able to move things back and forth seamlessly and that's what it brings his David a big part of this cross cloud message right and there's an obligation and it turns out I I'd argue that your most strategic engagement with the cloud is actually data alright VMS you can spin up spin down right there transitory it's on or off but you know the decision about where you place data is long-standing what do and what data sovereignty issues about you know it takes you know data is not quick to move anywhere right so it takes time and it takes you know from a cost standpoint right you all of a sudden lock yourself in on data to keeping it going right so those sort of issue didn't if you want to take it back by the way you know there's some egress fees and other things to go and manage so what we announced right in this cross cloud world about how we're running for example you know in IBM SoftLayer right and you can now spin up vcn and soft layer right and see the same policy based management right across the cloud now right I mean that extension right into the public clouds right is a really interesting way for us to go and talk about moving from just a storage you know provide into a data services data management right that becomes a key element how do you convince people to be early adopters then of that because now that they're making decisions that not that they they all matter that are those matter maybe a little more is it really early adoption though this far into the game I mean wow I mean everybody we came out a transitory element yeah you're saying ok I want you to take another step yeah I want you go a little further out and so that's what I was saying well here's here's where I'd let me out a little bit too that is what I'd say is that you said data management yes i would say data Asset Management's there that's so you know we were talking earlier digital business is about how you're going to apply data differently to retain and sustain your customers and so this point ocean of data as an asset you really elevates this conversation about what data where when all those other things and to the degree that virtualization simplifies those conversations it's going to have a major impact on business flexibility agility even designed so you guys agree so degree yes so think about that and and I have to credit a vmware se his name is Paul Rowan think of NSX as kind of a bodyguard okay and every chunk of data whatever it is as a bodyguard kind of leading them leading the way and protecting that piece of data from whatever it is that it needs to protect it wherever it goes and that's really a real simple analogy so it's not just I have to configure a firewall over here and make sure that if it goes into cloud that that firewall has the same rules it doesn't matter anymore because my bodyguards going with me and and and I'm that bodyguard is making sure that all the policies are applied no matter where I end it also opens up new areas you know when you talk about data asset management now I started thinking about well you know maybe I want to do some big data analytics I'm where my data is right where where do i locate it right and you could locate different places for sovereignty security local performance for example right back up any geolocation issues right and then I also started thinking of a policy base rate we call source policy based management and that sort now it says you know it's not just capacity right maybe want to be thinking of a performance right how do I think about allocating performance how do I think about managing performance across different assets for example right so lot I mean this is what's exciting i think is once you start where we've started from which is at the hypervisor level you're at a natural architectural injection point to go and say we could take all of these pieces in and very efficiently go and manage them provide new functionality right that's a really interesting way as customers trying an SS like my date it may not just be here anymore right may be out here may be out there how do i go and get a handle on that that's true once you hit that inflection point where in the industry starts coming to you right that's right VMware's clearly hit that point and then some yeah interesting well we've had peanut butter policy we've had bodyguards i wish made more time to do morals of wisdom okay the big IT stop sign I like that too are you good thanks for joining this guy's thank you have a great show all right our coverage on the cube vmworld continues in just a moment here from Las Vegas