>>from the bellagio hotel >>in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering Ui Path forward. Four brought to you >>by Ui Path. Welcome back from the bellagio in Las Vegas. The Cubans live at Ui Path forward for I'm lisa martin here with Dave Volonte. We're gonna be talking about roadblocks to automation and how to navigate around them, joining us next as Pernando Panini expert associate partner at bain and company per night. Welcome to the program. >>Thanks lisa. Happy to be here. >>Talk to us about some of the use cases that bain is working on with you I Path and then we'll dig into some of those roadblocks that you guys have uncovered. >>Yes. Uh I started a few months ago where we're working with Brandon who's the product lead on the Ui part side. We wanted to understand what's the state of citizen development and what are the blockers and how we should Both from the product side. But also on the automation journey side we need to dig deeper and understand where each of the clients and the employees are going through the journey together >>and if you look at it from the citizen developer perspective, what are some of those roadblocks? >>There are a few. So when like if you before we go to the roadblocks there are three main concerns or I would say critical groups that are involved in being successful with automation. The organization or bu leaders, the I. T. And employees. So each of the groups have different perceptions on like misconceptions or perceptions on benefits of automation and how to go up go about it. The blockers that we have seen where like a three sets of blockers. The first is cognitive where employees are unaware of automation on the benefits of automation and the second one is more organizational where organization leaders and how they feel about automation or how the how they think about employees when we introduce automation to them. One part of that is there is a misconception without nation leaders that employees are fearful of job loss when you introduce automation. What we have seen in our research is it's completely the opposite of employees are eager to adopt automation have given an opportunity, they are willing to upscale themselves and they are willing to save the time so that they can spend that on critical value added activities for um for their customers in the process. And a third blocker that we have seen is more on the product side where the some of the employees that we talked to as much as progress has been made by RPF vendors and local local vendors. It's still these tools are not intuitive user friendly for business users. They still feel they need to go through some training programs and have a better user friendly interface is >>what's the entry point she would organization first time I ever heard of Arpaio Years and years and years ago was at a CFO conference. Okay so that's cool. It seems like it forward for there's a lot more C. I. O presence here and that. Is that relatively new or did I just miss it before? >>It is relatively new. So like when we looked at like in the past few years the empty point has been someone in finance or I. T. Has heard about R. P. A. The benefits of head. They went and bought a handful of licenses and then they went and implemented it but it's just a handful of processes. It's not organizational wide. It has been mostly on a smaller sub scale of processes. And projects now that like organizations are realizing employees are asking and we are like slowly growing up with automation ceo es it's now it's intersecting with the C XL level of if it has to intersect with your or if you want to reinvent your business through automation, it has to come from the sea X level and that's where we're seeing more and more. See IOS are being involved in decisions on automation journeys, the technologies they have to buy and adopt for the business processes. >>So I. T. Can be an enabler of course. Also sometimes it can be a blocker. Um and you know, certainly from security standpoint governance etcetera. And so one of the things that we heard today in the keynotes was you don't want to automate the C I. O. He or she owns this application portfolio and everybody wants to do new projects because that's the fun stuff we heard from one CFO. Yeah. You add up all the NPV from the new projects. It's bigger than the valuation of the company. Right. But the C i O is stuck having to manage the infrastructure and all the processes around the existing application portfolio. One of things I heard today was don't automate an application or a process that you're trying to retire because we never get rid of stuff in it. So I wonder should automation like an enterprise wide automation? Should there be kind of an application rationalization exercise or a business process rationalization coincident with that >>initiative? Absolutely. I think that was one of the blockers that we have seen. Like some of the misconceptions and some of the blockers when I looked at it for them, they consider like you're bringing all these tools you're asking business users to like who haven't had haven't been trained in technology or programming, You're asking them to build these automation ins So one they have to manage with the all the applications and the tools for all that happens. And to manage these automation is after business users have either left the company or moved on. So it is essential for them to think through and provide a streamline tools it on on two aspects. one it needs to be as as you started off, it needs to be an enabler to provide them the specific tools that they can, they have already blessed. They've curated it which are ready for business consumption. A second part I can also do is providing collaboration platforms so that business users can learn from each other and from it so that they can one are developing the right processes with the right methodology that is governed by I. T. And no security or data governance issues. Come through. >>One of the things that you mentioned in terms of the three roadblocks ceo uncovered was that you were surprised that the results of the research showed that in fact employees are really wanting to adopt automation. In fact I think the stat is um 86% of employees want automation but only 30% of leaders are giving them the opportunity to use that. That's a big gap. Why do you think that is >>so a few things. Right. I mean as we talked about the three constituents that you have right one is automation leaders. If you consider from them. Their view is their employees are not capable of adopting or building on the automation is using these tools and they need technical skills. But the all the automation vendors have made progress and if you look at the tools today are much more user friendly and business users are willing to adopt. The second part as we talked about is like the fear of job loss from the employee standpoint. Whereas employees are looking at it as an opportunity for them to up skill but also eliminate the pain points that they have today in the day to day activities using the automation tools. And for them it is like this is helping them spend the time with the customers where it matters on critical value added activities versus going through reparative process of the journey. And the third part we talked about earlier with I. T. I. T. Has this notion that they need to build and develop anything technical. Business users will not be able to build or manage and they're also worried about the governance, the security and the third part which you brought up earlier is that tool sprawl, It's like we need to manage like this volume of tools that are coming in which is only adding to their plate of already busy busy workforce. >>I have one of those. It depends questions and it's a good consultant I'm sure you say well it depends but are there patterns best practice or even more than best pressures? Are there sort of play books if you will? And patterns? I'm sure it's situational. But are you seeing patterns emerge, you can say okay this sort of category should approach it this way. Here's another one in a different, maybe it's a department bottoms up top down, can you help us sort of squint through that? >>Yeah. So in terms of approaches like at least up till now the prevalent thing that is happening is like C. O. Es went and buy some licenses they talk about like opportunities that they have. So it's more of a top down driven uh like ceo driven agenda. What we're seeing now especially with citizen automation or democratisation of automation is there's a new approach of including employees into the journey and bringing the bottoms up approach. So there's a happy path where you marry up the top down approach with bottoms up and one you will find opportunities which are organizational wide with the bu leaders and they are ones which are on the long tail of opportunities which employees feel the pain but I. T. Or C. O. He doesn't have the time to come and implement or automate these activities. Um considering like one part we have seen which is increasingly helpful for people who have done this properly is including employees. And one thing we talked yesterday is invest in employees. They consider automation as investment in employees rather than something they're doing to employees. So it's kind of collaborating with employees to make progress which seems to be helping evangelize and also benefit with automation. How >>Have the events of the last 18 months impacted this as well, we've seen so much acceleration and the mandate for automation. What are some of the things that you've seen? >>Sure. So for us like even before the pandemic we've seen in our research so like more than close to 50% of the organizations that they started the automation journey were unable to achieve the savings or targets that they set themselves for whatever the success factors are. Which which hard. A few reasons one they didn't have the organizational support, not they were taking the end to end journey or a customer journey to figure out like what are these big opportunities that they can go through and they haven't included employees and to figure out what are the major pain points to go through the journey. One thing it was clear was with covid, no one expected this kind of disruption in a pan and a pandemic. There are a lot of offshore centres or like pretty much different geography is got disconnected from the work that's being done. You still need to support your customers, there is still a higher demand, what do you do? It's not like you can scale up your employees in a pandemic, that's where like we have seen increasing push towards automation and technology to see that can help and support and scale in a pandemic environment uh and also help your customers in the journey. >>So has in your opinion has automation become a mandate? Uh As a result of the pandemic >>I would say. Yeah I I would consider it's more of like now it's become a I would say uh business won a competitive differentiator to say like one I needed to keep my lights on and resiliency but also the companies have done really well they saw the advantage and they whether the pandemic better with the customers now they use that as a platform to create a competitive differentiation against their peers and push things forward. >>one of the things we heard of today and the keynotes is you got to think about my words, the life cycle, you don't just put in the bot and then just leave it alone. You really have to think through that. And that seems to me to be where you would help customers think through how to get the most return out of their investment. You I passed product company I think it's great. And so you talk about the value layer that you guys bring. >>So for us it's it's like when we talked to mostly be bringing from the business side of the house to understand what are the key drivers that you need to work on. I mean even before we talk about technology, we talk about, let's understand from the customer standpoint what is your customer journey into end and look through that journey lens and let's take the process and to end, let's look at redesigning process and making it more optimal and streamlined and where technology fits in. That's when we talk about like if it is an RPG or if it's a UI Path platform that can support, let's go through that journey versus taking the tool itself as the solution and trying to find every nail that you can hurt, which usually is not sustainable to your point. Like we need to think through the whole life cycle, make sure this is going to last. Or if you are retiring. Like in the ceo panel that was a discussion where that we need to think through when we are going to retire and make sure like we are in that journey versus building all these automation zor bringing all these tools and leaving them alone for I. T. To manage long term. >>No. Again the last 18 months. Again, question about the the um reactions catalyzed facilitated thinking about those three roadblocks. The cognitive roadblocks the organizational roadblocks since particularly what I'm interested in this question and product, what are some of the conversations that you've seen or trends that you seem to help those organizations better understand how to collaborate with each other so that what they're not doing is putting in our P. A point tools but really starting to build the right part of the nomination and and journey into their digital transformation plans. Yeah. >>I mean in a way to again, I'll go back to the three concerns that we talked earlier, right? It's it can only go so far and automate so much because they haven't seen the business lens of like how the processes are what they have to do and to end, which is where you need to involve the business leaders who can give you that view from the business side and employees who are seeing the work day to day and where they can eliminate the pain points. So the organisms that are successful, they are creating a collaborative environment between the three groups to push things forward. You >>have to have that collaboration that's critical. Otherwise, that's probably one of the road blockers as well. >>Yeah, absolutely. >>Where does automation fit? I mean you're obviously heavily into automation, but let's think about the bane portfolio, the boardroom discussions. Where does automation fit? I mean there's security, there's how do we embed ai into our business? How do we sas if I our business um how do we do transform digitally? Where's automation fit in that hole discourse? >>So I think the automation is like at the heart of digital transformation, the part which we have seen where the gap is is not taking the business angle and actually thinking through the process and to end versus picking up a tool and trying to go solve a problem or find a problem to solve. And that's where we think in our discussions with boardrooms, it's more of let's think through how you want to reimagine your company or how you want to be more competitive looking into the future and like walk back from that standpoint and then started part from, I mean, the way we call it the future back like where you are today and now, like let's go forward and to what your end status and where technology broadly a digital tools and where automation fits in the process. >>How do you see what you i path is talking about at this conference? The announcements from yesterday? There's a lot of people here which is fantastic. How do you see what they're announcing? The vision that they set out a couple years ago that they're now delivering on. How is that a facilitator of organizations removing those roadblocks? Because as you said automation is a huge competitive differentiator these days and If we've learned nothing in the last 19 months you gotta you gotta be careful because there's always a competitor in the rear view mirror who might be smaller faster more agile ready to take your place. >>Yeah so like a few things that we've seen in the product roadmap that you talked about is they are providing the collaboration platform or tools where the I. T. Business owners can work through. Like for automation hub is what they talked at length yesterday is that's the platform where business users can provide their ideas. Like you provide process mining tools which can capture the process and the business users understand the process and they are the ones who are putting in an opportunity on the road map. So you have now a platform where all the ideas are being catalogued and once you implement they're being tracked on the automation hub so that that is providing a platform for everyone to collaborate together. The second one which Brandon talked yesterday is the tool itself for Studio X. When we're talking about citizen developers, employees trying to use and make it more user friendly. Is that where the Studio X which is providing that you are interface? Which is easy intuitive for business users to build basic automation is and try to take that long tail of opportunities that we talked about. So all these tools are coming together as one platform play, which you ipod has been talking about all through the conference and that is critical for everyone to collaborate to make a progress versus only thinking it's an easy job to implement the automation opportunities. That >>collaboration is business critical these days. Right. Thank you for joining David me and the program talking about some of the roadblocks that you've uncovered, but also some of the ways that organizations in any industry can navigate around them and really empower those employees who want automation in their jobs. We appreciate your insights. >>Happy to be here. Thanks for having us. You're welcome >>for day Volonte. I'm lisa martin live in las Vegas at UI Path forward for we'll be right back with our next guest. Yeah. >>Yeah. Mm. Mhm

>> live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the two you covering Citric synergy, Atlanta 2019. Brought to You by Citrix. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with Keith Tones in wrapping up Day two Vault Evil coverage of Citrix Energy. 2019 Keith. What a two days we have had. >> This was not a boring show. This has been really exciting. >> It has my cheeks hurt from smiling. >> You know what I've been to shows where the messaging can be repetitive. What we did almost 20 interviews over the past couple of days talking to executives, three of the their customers, all that actually more than three cups way. We talkto four customers, and all the conversations have been different and dynamic and exciting. And that's really great to say about Citrix again. Citrix is exciting. If I were a citrus customer today at, definitely invite them and get it, and I didn't make the show at my invite him in and have a conversation find out what's going on. The intelligent experience is a secretion said. They've been working on it for a few years, releasing today not a surprise, but definitely a great start. >> Absolutely. You know, they came out of the gates yesterday morning in the general session. Really, with this massive pivot for Citrix of really developing technology for the end user for four, rather the general user like those who are not power users, those who shouldn't have to become power users to do their job, whether they're in supply, chain our marketing or finance. So that pivot towards that general purpose user, which is the majority of users, was very ostensible. And it was welcome from not just all the customers we talked about, the analysts as well. Yeah, I think that's >> one of those things that you look at A a Iot. You've said something repeatedly that interesting stat We heard yesterday that applications are designed for the 1% the power user and what we heard today wass the basically commoditization of a I and M l. I've always thought that a M l A. At some point, we'll get to the point that we can push it down to the user and the user would use a female of the same with the use Microsoft excel Today, Citrix is kind of flipped it on me and and and presented way to use a i M. L in a way that I had not thought of, which is to take processes. Business process is not it processes, but business processes packaged them up. What, no matter what APS, they're being used to deliver that process package stat up into a micro, eh? And in users themselves will be able to build a Christian Riley Citrix. CTO said he's mostly aside. That was a great question. Next, mostly aside of about 2019 putting this builder, the citric builder in a hands of not T administrators. But business process. >> So and I wish we had more time on that front. I was curious. What does that do to shadow it? T empowering this business users? Just that I don't want it to get your perspectives on that. Yeah, >> So you know what? It's exciting and scary at the same time. You know, the idea of that a business user can automate a process, and what she takes data out of one system and put it into another one on surface is pretty cool. But I've been kind of keeping my eye out on this multi cloud thing. What happens from a security perspective. When a user build something and eight of us and they have sales force and they have their Oracle database online and they create a workflow, this builder will give them the capability to basically built a multi cloud. I'm quoting, calling at, ah, multi cloud business process that becomes that becomes a competitive advantage to the business and then becomes a business critical application as a result. So you know what we're I see why the excitement is there but from, you know, just a bureaucratic person that's over 20 years of experience and just can't get out of me. There's a lot t kind of just be Riri of and planned for. It's all good stuff >> it is. But you're right, you bring up. You know, I just was kind of envisioning this proliferation of pipe of these sort of custom applications that lines of business users are going to be able to build a lot of enablement there. But then, of course, in terms of this application, exponential growth within a company, what are some of the implications you talked about security. We talked about that a lot the last couple of days, so that's absolutely critical, but in terms of that AP proliferation, what are your thoughts on that? >> You know you >> think about, would you? >> Interesting term, early nineties or late nineties. And we're just in e commerce. And it was very controversial. Amazon was patterning business processes. The one klick to purchase was a big, big deal. Competitors couldn't do that in users who have a completely different perspective. Teo, too. This is a tool. You know, it doesn't matter if this is a Samsung phone. IPhone doesn't matter. This is the tool so that I can get a business thing done. The results. You know, where we've put imaginary barriers, you know, the S 400 sales force shall never touch. Well, it's business. Users will destroy those barriers. They'll see these applications, they'll see these uses. And then we were on to, you know, typical problems. You will create 1,000 of these in a single organization. How did you find them? Like you're out discovery. 1,000 When you want a new app on your iPhone finding, they have to do it a specific thing. You know, Aiken probably search for flashlight on my iPhone and get you what? apse. Which one is the one for my process and best for my process. I can see that at proliferation, been a problem in the enterprise, >> something that we'll have to keep our eyes on. Another thing I was curious to get your feedback on is our p. A. You are the one of the first ones and Twitter to call that out yesterday, saying Alright of Citrix wants >> to be >> delivering the future of work. Automation is going to be essential. And then voila! There's the intelligent experience, but something that we heard a lot yesterday as well. We hear this at every show. Is these massive workforce talent shortages that we're going to be seeing in the next few years? Some industries are already facing them. So, looking at the talent shortage and then the concern over A and R P taking over jobs, they seem to sort of do balance each other out. I'm sure it's not that simple. Yeah, >> we've talked about this awful lot in my circles. There were some people who just won't be able to make the transition to being to delivering higher value, uh, work output. My son talked about a co worker who did not know how to maximize excel. And, you know, we look at that now kind of chuckle, maybe >> a little bit, >> but that's painful. What? What happens when that when our P A auto makes their job their job? Is it definitely ah, process that there could be automated? But on the flip side, we need people to write our Ph scripts. We need people to, you know, way talked about. You know, there always be someone to operate. The robots are is a definitely area that we know not only need people talk, create the robots. We need someone to maintain them. What happens when a regulation changes? You know, Christian talks about liability if something is automated, and we forget that it's automated regulation changes and we continue to go along with the automated process and we're in violation of a standard or compliance law. Wei need someone to go in and quickly make a change. Who are these people? Were those that talent coming from and then this place workers. How do we find work for them to do this value? Add that they could make the transition to do so. It's a lot of complicated questions yet to be answered. >> Well, another thing that was really obvious the last couple of days is the bread of customer success. That's Citric, says having we were able to talk without you. Mentioned four customers from the Miami Marlins. So Major League Baseball to financial managed, a wealth manager company, Schroeder's in the UK We spoke with Indiana University based here in the States and and what they're doing to enable end users like you and me from students. Two consumers of wealth management technology to baseball fans is radically different. But at the same time, it's all about delivering this experience that's personalized. That's customized and tailored to what each individual wants to achieve. And this >> is without even giving the new product from cities We had Dana Garner Alice on earlier today, who said that Citrix really needs to to their own horn. There should be a Citrix inside. I remember early SAS products from companies like a teepee, uh, get support calls on it. I go Teo and uses death type, and they say I'm using this ADP software. This is before a stall for as the service was really a big thing and I looked at him. Oh, this's just Citrix going into another, going into, ah, data center somewhere else. Today, that is very much a sass service, and Citrix is an underlying foundation of that. So it was no surprise from a technology your perspective to see what you are doing. Or is that effort was doing, or a shoulder or even the Marlins? What was surprising was the impact they're having, you know, the providing, ah, accessibility applications to rule parts of Indiana. Ah, the 200,000 in points from a university. This is not, you know, you think of 200,000. There's a lot of clouds. Ah, Cloud company's ass Cos that would love to have 200,000 device is accessing its infrastructure. So extremely diverse set of customers that sister says, And the capability, even without the products announced today, uh, pretty exciting, >> I'm excited to hear and the next, you know, six months or so from those beta customers who've been testing out intelligent experience and seeing what other enhanced business outcomes they're achieving, also wanted to get your perspective on what you heard of the last couple of days with respect to How does it change the game for Citrix from a competitive advantage standpoint? >> Yeah, the tweeted out that Veum where is either going to acquire or quickly announced a Arpaio type solution? This is something that businesses will care about. This is not something that can be ignored. You AI path, which is a complimentary solution to Citrix, just got a $568,000,000 Roundy. Let's put this in perspective. We're hearing software companies get $60,000,000 rounds to create hardware. This is a salt for on Lee Company. A machine learning that does R. P s were robotic process automation. Investors are seeing the value in this company enough that they're going to give a software company who doesn't have buildings they don't have. Uh, this is just to invest in sales. Portia sells people in R and D $568,000,000 to make it happen. You're going to see competitors like being where citrus is a friend of mine. I'm sorry. Nutanix is a frenemy of say tricks, you know, they go to market a lot together, but they have their frame solution. Citrus is, I think, put, you know, all in and said You know what? V m word nutanix frame put up or shut up. This is this is you know, this is this is a seismic move in industry. >> So I gather that you're leaving here pleasantly surprised by some of the things that were unveiled. >> I did not expect Citrix to move so quickly into our p a roar wanted process automation. And this is not something that they thought of last minute. So you know, Christian said they've been working on this for three years. So this is something that they've given quite a bit of thought to. If the same thought hasn't happened already at frame that competitive solution for desktop as a service or if it hasn't already happened. And bm we're workspace and they're set of Ah VD I solutions than Citrix is obviously three years ahead >> and your thoughts on the announcements with respect to deepening relationships and partnerships with Microsoft with Google. >> Yeah, and some of that. It is catch up the VM where has had a solution with azure for quite some time bringing desktops as a service there. So then where has a slight lead on that? But Citrix you know what? Citrix is still a verb. The even when customers are using other solutions, they say You just like this the Kleenex I'm like I would like Citrix access. Well, it's horizon, this frame, whatever I want. I need to get my job done, and I hear that I have to get a citrus account to get it done. So I think Citrix has definitely caught up with both Nutanix when tannic says the Airframe solution and VM, where we're horizon with solutions and azure and then what went on in that? What went, I think unnoticed is that Citrix partners with Veum where to deliver the Xan desktop solution. And then where's via MacLeod on a W S O. That went unnoticed over the past couple of days. But again, more choice. If I were a customer looking at VD I desktop workspace modernization, be pretty excited about my options in the competitive landscape. >> Think they did a great job of positioning themselves as being enablers of the future of work? We talked a lot about today's workforce with five generations of active workers. We saw a great example of I guess a baby boomer with Dr Madeleine Albright on stage, it's going to get 82 years old. See here, >> Baby Boomer, which issues of the greatest generation? I think she's that fifth thatyou know that fifth oldest generation, 82 years old, And I hope >> I'm not >> a sharp is that now. And I'm a little bit more than half that age told, uh, it's not looking too good for me. >> I mean, either way, how she talked about when she was secretary of state, didn't have a computer on her desk. And now she's writing in driverless vehicles >> and presenting at tech conferences and with respect. This is not always Automat Mall. Albright. What? What can she have to offer us? It was an engaged audience, Uh, even with purse like leaning on political power policies. She gets some, and she got a standing ovation at a tech conference. So, you know, it's an amazing testament to what you can offer. No matter you're your age. >> Exactly, and Citrix is doing a great job of being able to deliver and enable their customers to help all of their workers at any age at any generation. Just get the stuff done. Keep it has been such a great time. Such a pleasure working with you for the last couple of days. Thank you for being my partner in crime. >> Turned out better than we hoped. We said we were gonna have fun. I think we have more fun than we thought we would. >> I agree. Well, thanks so much. Say, flight home. I know. I'll see if the next show sometime in some city soon. >> You know, the Cube is at four places right now. I'm pretty sure we'll be in the same location. Pretty So >> I think so. Keith and I want to thank you so much for watching the cubes to day coverage of citric synergy. 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia, We've had a blast. We hope you've had a blast watching. Thank you.