(upbeat intro music) >> Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen and welcome back to fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada where we are theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent for the 10th year in a row. John Furrier, you've been here for all 10. How does this one stack up? >> It's feeling great. It's just back into the saddle of more people. Everyone's getting bigger and growing up. The companies that were originally on are getting stronger, bigger. They're doing takeovers in restaurants and still new players are coming in. More startups are coming in and taking care of what I call the (indistinct) on classic, all the primitives. And then you starting to see a lot more ecosystem platforms building on top of AWS. I call that NextGen Cloud, NextGen AWS. It's happening. It's happening right now. >> Best thing about all of these startups is they grow up, they mature, and we stay the same age, John. (John laughing) All right. All right. All right. Very excited to introduce you our next guest, he wears a lot of hats as the CEO, founder, and chairman at Reltio, please welcome Manish. Manish, welcome to the show. How is your show going so far? >> Well, thank you so much. You know, this is amazing. Just the energy, the number of people. You know, I was here last year, just after the pandemic, and I think it's almost double, if not more the number of people this year. >> John: Pushing 50,000. The high water mark was 65,000 in 2019. >> We should be doing like a Price Is Right sort of thing here on the show and figure out. >> Yeah, $1. >> Savannah: Yeah, yeah. (laughing) One guest, 80,000 guests. How many guests are here? Just in case the audience is not familiar, we know you're fast growing, very exciting business. Tell us what Reltio does. >> So, Reltio is a SaaS platform for data unification and we started Reltio in 2011. We have been serving some of the largest customers across industries like life sciences, healthcare, financial services, insurance, high tech, and retail. Those are, you know, some of the areas that we are focused on. The product capabilities are horizontal because we see the same data problem across every industry. Highly fragmented, highly siloed data that is slowing down the business for every organization out there. And that's the problem that we are solving. We are breaking down these silos, you know, one profile or one record, or one customer product supplier information record at a time, and bringing the acceleration of this unified data to every organization. >> This is the show Steam this year, Adam Celeste is going to be on stage talking about data end to end. Okay. Integrating in all aspects of a company. The word data analyst probably goes away pretty shortly. Everyone was going to be using data. This has been, and he talks about horizontal and vertical use cases. We've been saying that in theCUBE, I think it was about seven years ago, we first said we're going to start to see horizontally scalable data not just compute and cloud. This is now primetime conversation. Making that all work with governance is a real hard problem. Understanding the data. Companies have to put this horizontal and vertical capabilities in place together. >> Absolutely. You know, the data problem may be a horizontal problem, but every industry or vertical that you go into adds its own nuance or flavor to it. And that's why, you know, this has to be a combination of the horizontal and vertical. And we at Reltio thought about this for a while, where, you know, every time we enter a conversation, we are talking about patient data or physician data or client data and financial services or policy and customer information and insurance. But every time it's the number of silos that we encounter that is just an increasing number of applications, increasing number of third party data sources, and bringing that together in a manner where you can understand the semantics of it. Because, you know, every record is not created equal. Every piece of information is not created equal. But at the same time, you have to stitch it together in order to create that holistic, you know, the so-called 360 degree view. Because without that, the types of problems that you're trying to solve are not possible. Right? It's not possible to make those breakthroughs. And that's where I think the problem may be horizontal, but the application of the capabilities has to be verticalized. >> John: I'm smiling because, you know, when you're a founder like you are, and Dave, a lot here are at theCUBE, you're often misunderstood before people figure out what you do and why you started the company. And I can imagine, and knowing you and covering your company, that this is not just yesterday you came up with this idea that now everyone's talking about. There was probably moments in your history when you started, you're scratching it, "Hey the future's going to be this horizontal and vertical, especially where machine learning needs to know the data, the linguistics, whatever the data is, it's got to be very particular for the vertical, but you need to expand it." So when did you have the moment where people finally figured out like, what you guys doing is, like, relevant? I mean, now the whole world now sees- >> Savannah: Overnight success 11 years later. >> John: This shows the first time I've heard Amazon and the industry generally agree that horizontally scalable data systems with vertical value, that it's natural. We've been saying it for seven years on theCUBE. You've been doing the startup. >> Yeah. >> As a founder, you were there early. Now people are getting it. What's it like? Tell, take us through. When did you have the moment? When did you tipping point for the world getting it? >> Yeah, and you know, the key thing to remember is that, you know, not only have I been in this space for a long time but the experiences that we have gone through starting in 2011, there was a lot of focus on, you know, even AWS was at that point in time in the infancy stages. >> Yeah. >> And we said that we are going to set up a software as a service capability that runs only on public cloud because we had seen what customers had tried to do behind their firewalls and the types of hurdles that they had run into before. And while the concept was still in its nascent stages, but the directional signals, the fact that number of applications that you see in use today across any organization, that's growing. It used to be a case when in early 2000s, you know, this is early part of my career, where having six different applications across the enterprise landscape was considered complex. But now those same organizations are talking about 400, 500, a thousand different applications that they're using to run their business end to end. So, you know, this direction was clear. The need for digital transformation was becoming clear. And the fact that, you know, cloud was the only vehicle that you could use to solve these types of ad scale problems was also becoming clear. But what wasn't yet mainstream was this notion that, you know, if you're doing digital transformation, you need access to clean, consistent, trusted information. Or if you're doing machine learning or any kind of data analytics, you need similar kinds of trusted information. It wasn't a mainstream concept, but people were struggling with it because, you know, the whole notion of garbage in garbage out was becoming clearer to them as they started running into hurdles. And it's great to see that now, you know, after having gone through the transformation of, yes, we have provided the compute and the storage, but now we really need to unlock the value out of data that goes on this compute and storage. You know, it's great to see that even Amazon or AWS is talking about it. >> Well, as a founder, it's satisfying, and congratulations, we've been covering that. I got to ask, you mention this end to end. I like the example of in the 2006 applications considered complex, now hundreds and thousands of workloads are on an enterprise. Today we're going to hear more end to end data services on AWS and off AWS, hybrid or edge or whatever, that's happens. Now cross, it sounds like it's going to get more complex still. >> I mean... >> John: Right. I mean, that's not easy. >> Savannah: The gentle understatement of the century. I love that. Yes. >> If Adam's message is end to end, it's going to be more complex. How does it get easier? Because the enterprise, you know, the enterprise vendors love solving complexity with more complexity. That's the wrong answer. >> Well, you're absolutely right that things are going to get more complex. But you know, this is where, whether it is Amazon or you know, us, Reltio as a vendor coming in, the goal should always be what are we going to simplify for the customer? Because they are going to end up with a complex landscape on their hands anyway. Right? >> Savannah: Right. >> So that is where, what can be below the surface and simplified for the customers to use versus bringing their focus to the business value that they can get out of it. Unlocking that business value has to be the key aspect that we have to bring to the front. And, you know, that is where, yes, the landscape complexity may grow, but how is the solution making it simpler, easier, faster for you to get value out of the data that you're trying to work with? >> As a mission, that seems very clear and clean cut, but I'm curious, I can imagine there's so many different things that you're prioritizing when you're thinking about how to solve those problems. What is that decision matrix like for you? >> For us, it goes back to the core focus and the core problem that we are in the business of solving which is in a siloed, fragmented landscape, how can we create a single source of truth orientation that your business can depend on? If you're looking for the unified view of the customer, the product, the supplier, the location, the asset, all these are elements that are critical or crucial for you to run your business end to end. And we are there to provide that solution as Reltio to our customers. So, you know, we always, for our decision matrix have to go back to are we simplifying that problem for our customers and how much faster, easier, nimbler can it be, you know, both as a solution and also the time to value that it brings to the equation for the customer. >> Super important, end of the equation. Clearly you are on to something. You are not only a unicorn company, unicorn company being evaluated at over $1 billion latest evaluation, correct me if I'm wrong, is $1.7 billion as of last year. But you are also a centaur, which is seven times more rare than a unicorn, which for the audience maybe not familiar with the mythical creatures that define the Silicon Valley nomenclature in Lexicon. A centaur is a company with a hundred million in annual reoccurring revenue. How does it feel to be able to say that as a CEO or to hear me say that to you? >> Well, as a CEO, it's, you know, something that we have been working towards. the goal that we can deliver value to our customers, help every industry, you know, you just think about the types of products that you touch in a day, whether it's, you know, any healthcare related products that you're looking at. We are working with customers who are solving for the patient record to be unified with our platform. We are working with financial services companies who are helping you simplify how you do banking with them. We are working with retailers who are working in the area of, you know, leisure apparel or athletic goods and they are using our capabilities to simplify how they deliver better experience to you. So as I go across these industries, being able to influence and touch and simplify things overall for the customers that these companies are serving, that's an amazing feeling. And, you know, doing this while we are also making sure that we can build a durable business that has substantial revenue behind it- >> Savannah: Substantial. >> Gives us a lot of legs to stand on and talk about how we can change how the companies should run their entire data stack. >> And you're obviously a very efficient team practicing what you teach. You told me how many employees that you have? >> We have 450 employees across the globe. >> 450 employees and a hundred million in reoccurring revenue. It's pretty strong. It's pretty strong. >> Thank you. >> That's a quarter million in rev per employee. They're doing a pretty good job. That's absolutely fantastic. >> The cloud has been very successful, partnering with the cloud, a lot of leverage for the cloud. >> And that's been a part of our thesis from the very beginning that, you know, the capabilities that we build and bring to life have to be built on public cloud infrastructure. That's something that has been core to our innovation cycle because we look at it as a layer cake of innovation that we sit on and we can continue to drive faster value for our customers. >> John: Okay, so normally we do a bumper sticker. Tell me the bumper sticker for the show. We changed it to kind of modernize it called the Insta Challenge, Instagram challenge. Instagram has reels, short videos. What's the Instagram reel from your perspective? You have to do an Instagram reel right now about why this time in history, this time in for Amazon web services, this point for Reltio. Why is this moment in time important in the computer industry? Because, you know, we've reported, I put a story out, NextGen Clouds here. People are seeing their status go from ISV to ecosystem platforms on top of AWS. Your success has continued to grow. Something's going on. What's the Instagram reel about why this year's so important in the history of the cloud? >> Well, you know, just think about the overall macroeconomic conditions. You know, everybody's trying to think about where the next, you know, the set of growth is going to come from or how we are going to tackle, you know, what we have as challenges in front of us. And at the end of the day, most of the efficiency that came from applying new applications or, you know, buying new products in the application space has delivered its value. The next unlock is going to come from data. And that is the key that we have to think about because the traditional model of going across 500 different applications to run your business is no longer going to be a scalable model to work with. If you really want to move faster with your business, you have to think about how to use data as a strategic asset and think about things differently. And we are talking about delivering experience at the edge, delivering, you know, real time type of engagement with the customers that we work with. And that is where the entire data value proposition starts to deliver a whole new set of options to the customers. And that's something that we all have to think about differently. It's going to require a fundamentally different architecture, innovation, leading with data instead of thinking about the traditional landscape that we have been running with. >> Leading with data and transforming architecture. A couple themes we've had on the show lately already. >> John: Well I think there's been a great, I mean this is a great leadership example of what's going on in the industry. As young people are looking at their careers. I've talked with a lot of folks under 30, they're trying to figure out what's a good career path and they're looking at all this change in front of them. >> That's a great point, John. >> Whether it's a computer science student or someone in healthcare, these industries are being reinvented with data. What's your advice to those young, this up and coming generation that might not take the traditional path traveled 'cause it might not be there. What's your advice for those people making these career decisions? >> I think there are two things that are relevant to every career option out there. Knowledge and awareness of data and how to apply computing techniques to the data is key and relevant. It's the language that we all have to learn and be familiar with. Without that, you know, you'll be missing a key part of your arsenal that you will be required to bring to work but won't have access to if you're not well-versed or familiar with those two areas. So this is lingua franca that we all have to get used to. >> Data and computer technology applied to business or some application or some problem. >> Manish: Applied to business. You know, figuring out how to apply it to deliver business outcomes is the key thing to keep in mind. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Last question for you to wrap us up. It's obviously an exciting, thrilling, vibrant moment here on the show floor, but I'm curious because I can imagine some of your customers, especially given the scale that they're at, I mean we're talking about some Fortune 100s here, how are you delivering value in this uncertain market? I mean, I know you solved this baseline problem but I can imagine there's a little bit of frantic energy within your customer base. >> Manish: Yeah. You know, with data this has been a traditional challenge. Everybody talks about the motherhood and apple pie. If you have better data, you can drive better outcomes. But some of the work that we have been doing is quantifying, measuring those outcomes and translating what the dollar impact of that value is for each one of the customers. And this is where the work that we have done with large, you know, let's say life sciences companies like AstraZeneca or GSK or in financial services with companies like Northwestern Mutual or Fidelity or, you know, common household names like McDonald's where they're delivering their digital transformation with the data capabilities that we are helping build with them. That's the key part that's been, you know, extremely valuable. And that is where in each one of these situations, we are helping them measure what the ROI is at every turn. So being able to go into these discussions with the hard dollar ROI that you can expect out of it is the key thing that we are focused on. >> And that's so mission critical now and at any economic juncture. Just to echo that, I noticed that Forrester did an independent study looking at customers that invested in your MDM solution. 366% ROI and a total net present value of 13 million over three years. So you clearly deliver on what you just promised there with customers and brands that we touch in all of our everyday lives. Manish, thank you so much for being on the show with us today. You and Reltio are clearly crushing it. We can't wait to have you back hopefully for some more exciting updates at next year's AWS re:Invent. John, thanks for- >> Or sooner. >> Yeah, yeah. Or sooner or maybe in the studios or who knows, at one of the other fabulous events we'll all be at. I'm sure you'll be traveling around given the success that the company is seeing. And John, thanks for bringing the young folks into the conversation, was a really nice touch. >> We got skill gaps, we might as well solve that right now. >> Yeah. And I like to think that there are young minds watching theCUBE or at least watching, maybe their parents are- >> We're streaming to Twitch. All the gamers are watching this right now. Stop playing the video games. >> We have the hottest stream on Twitch right now if you're not already ready for it. John Furrier, Manish Sood, thank you so much for being on the show with us. Thank all of you at home or at the office or in outer space or wherever you happen to be tuned in to this fabulous live stream. You are watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. My name is Savannah Peterson. We're at AWS re:Invent here in Las Vegas where we'll have our head in the clouds all week.

[Music] realtio is in the business of data value acceleration we bring data together from multiple applications third-party data sources to create a unified view and deliver that in real time cube is a great platform you know you see a lot of new and diverse content and you get to learn about new technologies and capabilities and the new ways in which a different companies like railto are solving big problems and hearing from all of the different players all of the different people it becomes a great forum for people to not only come and learn about new things but also to be able to share that across a wider audience so we really appreciate you know the reach of the cube from that perspective so the question is what has been our experience working with the cube and would we do it again or recommend it to others absolutely we would recommend it to all of the different tech companies uh you know whether you're new and just getting started or you're at a mature size and scale in business uh cube is a perfect uh platform for us to use and we would do it again in a heartbeat so when are you having us over again connected data

(upbeat music) >> We're back at AWS reinvent 2021. You're watching The Cube, I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Dave Nicholson. David Nicholson, I'm Dave he's David. >> We're trying something new here at the cube. A little stand up cube. You've heard of the pop-up cube, maybe. We're going to stand up. I work at a stand, standing desk at my office, so let's try it. Four days, two sets, a hundred plus guests. Why not? So Manish Sood is here, he's the founder and CTO of Reltio, Cube alum. >> Dave: Manish, thank you for standing and good to see you again. >> Dave, It's great to see you again, and David, thank you for having me here. >> So, tell us a little bit about your, yourself, your background. I'm always interested to ask founders why you started your company, but tell us the background. >> Yeah, so a little bit of my background and the company's history. I, most of my background has been in data management and creating products for data management. I was at a company called Informatica, came through an acquisition through Informatica, back in 2010. And Started Reltio in 2011. The reason why we started Reltio was that, if you look at the enterprise space and how things have been evolving, there have been an explosion of applications. There's almost an application for every little business process that you can possibly imagine. Enterprise customers who used to struggle with 12 or 24 different systems, are now coming to us and saying they have 300 or 500 different applications that they use to run their business. And that's at the lower end of the spectrum. Even a business like Reltio today, runs on a hundred plus SAAS applications, end to end. And that it is creating one of the biggest opportunities, as well as one of the biggest friction points in the enterprise. Because in order to create better, efficient business outcomes, you have silos of data and you don't know where the source of truth is. And that is something that we saw early on in 2011. At the same time, we also saw that digital transformation or cloud transformation type of requirements, were going to drive a larger need for this kind of capability, where Reltio type of products could act as that single source of truth to unify all of the multi-source siloed information. So, that's what got us started down this journey. >> So, okay. So, when see people hear single source of truth, they think, oh, database, right? But that's not what you guys do, right? I mean, it's, it's, can I call it master data management? But it's really modern master data management. You're kind of recreating a new or creating a new category that- >> Manish: A little bit. >> solves a similar problem. Maybe you could explain that. >> Yeah. A little bit of background. So the term master data management came about the 1920s. (Dave laughing) You believe that? When during the pandemic, the U.S. government was trying to figure out how to know who is still alive versus, you know, not there anymore. And they created something called the death master. Now a very ominous name, for a concept of just bringing data together and figuring out what's going on in the economy, but that need, or problem hasn't gone away. It has just become a harder problem to solve because now we have so many different systems, to deal with. And both internal as well as third-party data sources that companies have to work with. And that's where the need has been around, but the technical capabilities to really keep solving the problem and delivering the solution in a manner where it can keep pace with the evolving needs, that capability has been missing. And that's where the "aha" moment for us was that we really needed to build it out as a foundation that would continue to grow and scale, with the magnitude of the problem that we were going to see in the future. >> Okay, so this idea of single version of the truth, obviously critically important for reporting, financials, you can't, you can't tell an auditor one thing, you know, your, your customers are another thing, your consumers, it's got to be consistent. And especially in regulated industries. Is there a difference Manish, between sort of that type of data and the data maybe that's in the line of business that doesn't necessarily affect the rest of the business? Can they have their own version of the truth, which is just their version, their, their, their single version? It doesn't necessarily have to affect anything else. Do you, are you seeing that changing data landscape, where things are getting more distributed and ownership is becoming more distributed? >> So, the change in the paradigm that we are seeing is because of the proliferation of the data, there is a need to establish, what is the aggregated view of the information. Aggregated and unified, which means that, you know, if there is a record for Dave Vellante or David Vellante. It's the same person. Establishing that fact as the truth across any number of systems that you have, versus the multiple versions of the truth, where somebody comes in and says, for compliance reasons, I want the entire collection of data versus for marketing reasons, I only want one third the slice of this information. So that's where this concept of aggregate once, unify that information, but then make it ready and available for multiple consumers to partake from that. That's becoming the norm. >> Dave: Got it. >> And you mentioned something, Dave, that analytics, reporting, BI, data science, those have been some of the traditional playgrounds for this kind of information to be unified, because if you're trying to roll up the revenue for, you know, the business that you do with Coke or Coca-Cola, you know, you don't know which name you used, then you have to go back to the analytics warehouse and aggregate all of that information and do the reporting. But the same problem is coming up in real time, digital experiences as well. The only difference is, that instead of having the luxury of a few hours, now you have to make the decision in a few milliseconds. >> So, when you talk about those silos of data and seeking to have a unification of those silos, how has that changed in the era of cloud? Is it that Reltio is integrating those disparate sources that now exist in cloud, or is it that you are leveraging cloud to address the problem that's been with us for a long time? And I have to say that Dave Vellante, take him off the the death master. He's definitely still with us. (Manish and Dave laugh) >> Dave: Another good day. >> I'm pretty sure too. But how, how, how has, how have things changed as you know, with, with the dawn of cloud? >> With the dawn of cloud, there are two things that have become available to us. One is using the power of the cloud compute to solve the problem, so that you can keep growing with the footprint of the problem itself and have a solution that scales along with it. But at the same time, you have systems of record, could be your mainframe systems, could be your SAP, ERP type of deployments that you have. Some of those functional applications, they're not going away anytime soon, they're there to stay. But at the same time, you also need the new digital experiences to be delivered on. The glue between those two worlds is the source of truth data that sits in the middle and the best place for it to sit is the cloud, because you have to open it up to the rest of the ecosystem that sits in the cloud, but you also have to maintain a connection to the on the ground type of systems. Putting it behind the firewall and trying to do that is next to impossible, but doing it in the cloud opens up all the doors that you need for your transformation to take place. >> You know Dave, there was a time when I was part of an industry where coding, not writing code, but coding data to basically say, look, this field here is the person's last name. This field is the address where the mortgage is being held. How much of that is still manual, as opposed to applying some form of AI to the problem? Let's say you have 200 different sources of information, where Dave Vellante's name shows up in a variety of contexts. Are we still having to go in manually and sift through to make those correlations? How much of that has been automated at this point? >> So, there are systems of capture where some of that information, because your loan mortgage application was entered by somebody into a system, will still be captured in those places, but we'll take in that information. That's the starting point, but if there are other sources, then we will apply AIML type of capabilities to bring on those new emerging sources. Because at the same time, think about this equation where, you started with five systems or, you know, a dozen systems. Now you're talking about 300 plus systems. You cannot keep doing this manually for every system possible. And this number is only going to grow as we move forward. So AIML definitely has a role to play and further automate this landscape. >> I had to, I saw an amazing stat the other day, the source was the Sand Hill Econometrics, you know, a Silicon valley company. And the stat was that 70% of the series, A, B and C companies, fail to return at least one X to their investors. So you've made it through that nut hole. Congratulations you just raised $120 million dollar round. That's got to be super exciting for you. >> David: No pressure by the way. >> Dave: Tell us about that. Well, I mean, you'd think the industry would have de-risked by now, right. But anyway, so, tell us about that raise. Where are you, where are you guys are at? Very exciting times for you. >> Yeah, really, really exciting time for us. We just raised $120 million dollars. The company was valued at $1.7 billion dollars. >> Dave: Awesome. Congratulations. >> And the round was, you know, all of our existing investors participated in it. We also had a new investor join in the process, as well. >> Dave: They wanted their pro-rata. (Dave and Manish laugh) >> Everybody, everybody wanted their pro-rata. >> Dave: That's great. >> But you know, one of the things that we have been very careful about in this whole process and journey, is something that you and I were talking about, the step function of scale. We're making sure that we are efficient stewards of capital and applying it in a manner where we are at every turn, looking at what's the next step function that we need to graduate to, because we want to make use of this capital to efficiently grow our business and be a Rule of 40 growth company. And that's something that you don't typically hear these days from a lot of the growth companies, but we are certainly focused on building long-term value and focusing on that Rule of 40 growth efficiency. >> Yeah, so Rule of 40 is growth plus EBITDA, or sometimes they use other metrics, but is that how you look at it? Growth plus EBITDA. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Great. >> And that's the formula that we are driving for. And most of our investments with this round of capital are going to be not only pushing forward with the go-to market strategy, because we have a lot of growth opportunity, we have been North America focused, now we can take this global. At the same time, looking at the verticals where we need to double down and invest more, given that we have been a horizontal platform that is core to our capabilities, that we have built with Reltio. But at the same time, making sure that we are investing in the key verticals that we are present in. >> Yeah. So, you were explaining to me that you, you started in the pharmaceutical industry, that's where you got go to market fit. And then you went to other industries. When you went to those other industries where they're similar patterns, or do you do almost have to start from ground zero again, to get that product market fit? >> No. So from the very beginning, the concept has been that this is a horizontal data problem. And at the heart of it, it's information about people, organizations, product, locations, and most of the businesses run on that type of information. That's the core part of the data that they build their business on. Life sciences was a perfect starting point for us, because it had examples of all of those data. When you start with commercial operations, which is sales and marketing, you have people, organization, product type of information. When you go into clinical trials, you have site investigators and patient type of information. When you go into R and D within that same space, you have drugs, compounds, substances, finished products, type of information, all coming from multiple sources. So it was a perfect place for us to prove out, all of the capabilities end to end, which we like to call multi-domain capabilities. And then we looked at what other verticals have similar patterns. And that's why we went after healthcare, financial services, insurance, retail, high tech. Those are some of the key verticals that we are in right now. >> That's awesome. Great vision. Last question, could you give us a sense of the futures, where you're going? Well, first of all, what are you doing with the money? Is it, you go to market, throwing gas on the fire? And what can we expect in the coming year and years? >> Go to market expansion is a key area of investment, but also doubling down on the customer experience that we deliver, how we invest in the product, what are some of the adjacent capabilities that we need to invest in? Because you know, data is a great starting point and data should not hold businesses back. Data should be the accelerant to the business. And that's our philosophy, that we are trying to bring to life. So making sure that we are making the data, readily available, accessible and usable for all of our customers is the key goal to aim for. And that's where all the investment is going. >> Well, Manish was a pleasure having you on at the AWS startup showcase, and then subsequently you become a unicorn. So congratulations on that. Really excited to watch the continued progress. Thanks for coming back in The Cube. >> Well, thank you so much, Dave and David, thanks for having me. >> David: Thanks for validating that Mr. Vellante is still with us. >> (laughs) He's going to be with us for a long time. >> I hope so, I hope so, I got, I got one more to put through college. Thank you for watching this edition of The Cube, at AWS reinvent. I'm Dave Vellante, for Dave Nicholson. We are The Cube, the leader in high-tech coverage, Be right back. (somber music)

>>It's my pleasure to be one of the hosts of the cube on cloud and the startup showcase brought to you by AWS. This is Dave Vellante and for years, the cube has been following the trail of data. And with the relentless March of data growth, this idea of a single version of the truth has become more and more elusive. Moreover data has become the lifeblood of a digital business. And if there's one thing that we've learned throughout the pandemic, if you're not digital, you're in trouble. So we've seen firsthand the critical importance of reliable and trusted data. And with me to talk about his company and the trends in the market is many sued as the CTO and co-founder of Reltio Maneesh. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you, Dave. It's a pleasure to be here. >>Okay. Let's start with, let's go back to you and your co-founders when you started Reltio it was back in the early days of the big data movement cloud was kind of just starting to take off, but what problems did you see then and what are enterprises struggling with today, especially with, with data as a source of digital innovation. >>They, if you look at the changes that have taken place in the landscape over the course of the last 10 years, when we started Reltio in 2011, there were a few secular trends that were coming to life. One was a cloud compute type of capabilities being provided by vendors like AWS. It was starting to pick up steam where making, uh, compute capabilities available at scale to solve large data problems was becoming real impossible. The second thing that we saw was, uh, this big trend of, uh, you know, you can not have a wall to wall, one single application that solves your entire business problem. Those visions have come and gone. And, uh, we are seeing more of the best of breed application type of a landscape where even if you look within a specific function, let's say sales or marketing, you have more than a dozen applications that any company is using today. >>And that trend was starting to emerge where we knew very well, that the number of systems that we would have to work with would continue to increase. And, uh, that created a problem of where would you get the single source of truth or the single best version of a customer, a supplier, a product that you're trying to sell those types of critical pieces of information that are core to any business that's out there today. And, um, you know, that created the opportunity for us at Reltio to think about the problem at scale for every company out there, every business who needed this kind of a capability and for us to provide this capability in the cloud as a software, as a service, uh, uh, offering. So that's where, uh, you know, the foundation of Reltio started. And the core problem that we wanted to solve was to bridge the gap that was created by all these data silos and create a unified view of the core critical information that these companies run on. >>Yeah. I mean, the cloud is this giant, you know, hyper distributed system data by its very nature is distributed. It's interesting what you were sort of implying about, you know, the days of the monolithic app are gone by my business partner years ago, John furrier and the cube said data is going to become the new development kit. And we've certainly seen that with the, the pandemic, but tell us more about Reltio and how you help customers deal with that notion of data, silo, data silos, data fragmentation, how do you solve that problem? >>So, data fragmentation is what exists today. And, um, you know, with the Reltio, uh, software as a service offering that we provide, we allow customers to stitch together and unify the data coming from these different fragmented, siloed, uh, applications or data sources that they have within their enterprise at the same time. Um, there's a lot of dependence on the third party data. You know, when you think about, uh, different problems that you're trying to solve, you have, uh, for B2B type of information that in Bradstreet type of data providers in life sciences, you have IQ via type of data providers. Um, you know, as you look at other verticals, there is a specialized third-party data provider for any, and every kind of information that most of the enterprise businesses want to combine with their in-house data or first party data to get the best view of who they're dealing with, who are they working with, you know, who are the customers that they're serving and use that information also as a starting point for the digital transformation that they want to get to. >>Um, and that's where Reltio fits in as the only platform that can help stitch together, this kind of, uh, information and create a 360 degree view that spans all the data silos and provides that for real-time use for BI and analytics to benefit from, for data science to benefit from. And then this emerging notion of, uh, data in itself is a, um, you know, key starting point that is used by us, uh, in order to make any decisions, just like, uh, we go, you know, if I, they wanted to look at information about you, I would go to places like LinkedIn, look up the information. And then our, my next set of decisions with that information, if somebody wanted to look up information on Reltio, they would go to, let's say Crunchbase as an example, and look up, uh, who are the investors? How much money have we raised all those details that are available? It's not a CRM system by itself, but it is an information application that can aid and assist in the decision-making process as a starting point. And that user experience on top of the data becomes an important vehicle for us to provide, uh, as a part of the Reltio platform capabilities. >>Awesome. Thank you. And I want to get into the, to the tech, but before we do, maybe we just cut to the chase and maybe you can talk about some of the examples of, of Reltio and action. Some of the customers that you can talk about, maybe the industries that are, that are really adopting this. W what can you tell us there, Maneesh, >>Um, we work across a few different verticals, some of the key verticals that we work in our life sciences, um, and travel and hospitality and financial services, insurance, um, S uh, retail, as an example, those are some of the key verticals for us, but, uh, to give you some examples of, uh, the type of problems that customers are solving with Reltio as the data unification platform, um, let's take CarMax as an example, CarMax is a customer who's in the business of, uh, buying used cars, selling used cars, servicing those used cars. And then, um, you know, you as a customer, don't just transact with them. Once you, you know, you've had a car for three years, you go back and look at what can you trade in that car for, but in order for CarMax to provide a service to you that, uh, goes across all the different touch points, whether you are visiting them at their store location, uh, trying to test drive a car or viewing, uh, information about the various vehicles on their website, or just, uh, you know, punching in the registration number of your car, just to see what is the appraisal from them in terms of how much will they pay for your car? >>This requires a lot of data behind the scenes for them to provide a seamless journey across all touch points and the type of information that they use, uh Reltio for aggregating, unifying, and then making available across all these touch points is all of the information about the customers, all of the information about, uh, the, uh, household, uh, you know, the understanding that they're trying to achieve because, uh, life events can, uh, be buying signals, uh, for, uh, consumers like uni, as well as, uh, who was the, um, associate who helped you either in the selling of a car buying of a car, because business is all about building relationships for the longer term lifetime value that they want to capture. And in that process, um, making sure that they're providing continuity of relationship, they need to keep track of that data. And then the vehicle itself, the vehicle that you buy yourself, uh, there is a lot of information in order to price it, right, that needs to be gathered, uh, from multiple sources. So the continuum of data all the way from consumer to the vehicle is aggregated from multiple sources, unified inside Reltio, and then made available, uh, through API APIs or through other methods, and means to the various applications can be either built on top of that information, or can consume that information in order to better aid and assist the processes, business processes that those applications have to run end to end. Well, it sounds like >>That's come along. Sorry. >>I was just going to say it that's one example and, uh, you know, across other verticals that are other similar examples of how companies are leveraging, Reltio >>Just say, can come a long way from simple linear clickstream analysis of a website. I mean, you're talking about really rich information and, and, you know, happy to dig into some other examples, but, but I wonder how does it work? I mean, what's the magic behind it? What's the, the tech look like, I mean, obviously you leveraging AWS, maybe you could talk about how so, and maybe some of the services there and some of your unique IP. >>Yeah. Um, you know, so the unique opportunity for us when we started in 2011 was really to leverage the power of the cloud. We started building out this capability on top of AWS back in 2011. And, uh, you know, if you think about, uh, the problem itself, uh, the problem has been around as long as you have had more than one system to run your business, but the magnitude of the problem has expanded several fold. Um, you know, for example, I have been in this area was, uh, responsible for creating some of the previous generation capabilities and, uh, most of the friction in those previous generation MDM or master data management type of solutions, um, as the, you know, the technical term that is used to refer to this area, uh, was that those systems could not keep pace with the increasing number of sources or the depth and breadth of the information that, uh, customers want to capture, whether it is, uh, you know, about a patient or a product, or let's say a supplier that you're working well. >>Uh, there is always additional information that you can capture and, uh, you know, use to better inform the decisions for the next engagement and, uh, that kind of model where the number of sources we're always going to increase the depth and breadth of information was always going to increase. The previous generation systems were not geared to handle that. So we decided that not only would we use at scale compute capabilities in the cloud, um, with the products like AWS as the backbone, but also solve some of the core problems around how more sources of information can be unified at scale. And then the last mile, which is the ability to consume such rich information, just locking it in a data warehouse has been sort of the problem in the past. And you talked about the clickstream analysis, uh, analytics has a place, but most of the analytics is a rear view mirror picture of the, uh, you know, work that you have to do, versus everybody that we talked to, uh, as a potential customer, wanted to solve the problem of what can we do at the point of engagement, how can we influence decisions? >>So, you know, I'll give you an example. I think, uh, everybody's familiar with Quicken loans, um, as the mortgage lender and, uh, in the mortgage lending business, uh, Quicken loans is the customer who's using Reltio as the customer data, um, unification platform behind the scenes. But every interaction that takes place, their goal is that they have a very narrow time window, um, you know, anywhere from 10 minutes to about an hour, where if somebody expresses an interest in refinancing or getting a mortgage, they have to close that, uh, business within that, uh, Hart window, the conversion ratios are exponentially better in that hot window versus waiting for 48 hours to come back with the answer of what will you be able to refinance your mortgage, uh, at. And, uh, they've been able to use this notion of real time data, where as soon as you come in through the website, or if you come in through the rocket mortgage app, or you're talking to a broker by calling the one 800 number, they are able to triangulate that it's the same person coming from any of these different channels and respond to that person, whether an offer, uh, ASAP so that, uh, there is no opportunity for the competition to get in and present you with a better offer. >>So those are the types of things where the time to, uh, conversion or the time to action is being looked at. And everybody's trying to shrink that time down, uh, that ability to respond in real time with the capabilities was sort of the last mile missing out of this equation, which didn't exist with previous generation capabilities. And now customers are able to benefit from that. >>That is an awesome example. I know at firsthand, I'm a customer of Quicken and rocket, and when you experience that environment, it's totally different than anything you've ever seen before. So it's helpful to hear you explain, like what's behind that because it's, it's truly disruptive. And I, and I'll tell you, the other thing that, that sort of triggered a thought was that we use the word realtime a lot, and we try to develop years ago. We said, what does real-time really mean? And the, the answer we CA we landed on was before you lose the customer, and that's kind of what you just described. Uh, and that is what gives as an example, a quick and a real advantage again, having experienced it firsthand. It's, it's pretty, pretty tremendous. So that's a nice, that's a, that's a nice reference. Um, so, and the other thing that struck me is that what I wanted to ask you, how it's different from sort of legacy master data management solutions, and you sort of described that they've seized to me, they got to take their, their traditional on-prem stack, rip it out, stick it in the cloud is okay, we got our stack in the cloud. >>Now your technical approach is dramatically different. You had the advantage of having a clean sheet of paper, right? I mean, from a, from an CTO's perspective, what's your, >>Yeah. The clean sheet of paper is the luxury that we have, you know, having seen this movie before having, um, you know, looked at solving this problem with previous generation technologies, it was really the opportunity to start with a clean sheet of paper and define a cloud native architecture for solving the problem at scale. So just to give you an example, um, you know, across all of our customers, we are today managing, um, uh, about 6.5 billion consolidated profiles of people, organizations, product locations, um, you know, assets, uh, those kinds of details. And these are, these are the types of, uh, crown jewels of the business that every business runs on. You know, for example, if you wanted to, um, let's say you're a large company, like, uh, you know, Ford and you wanted to figure out how much business are you doing, where the, uh, you know, another large company, because the other large company could be a global organization, could be spread across multiple geographies, could have multiple subsidiaries associated with it. >>It's been a very difficult answer to understand what is the total book of business that they have with that other, um, big, uh, customer and, uh, you know, being able to have the right, uh, unified, uh, relevant, rich clean as the starting point that gives you visibility to that data, and then allows you to run precise analytics on top of that data, or, uh, you know, drive, uh, any kind of, uh, conclusions out of the data science type of algorithms or MLAI algorithms that you're trying to run. Um, you have to have that foundation of clean data to work with in order to get to those answers. >>Nice. Uh, and then I had questions on just the model is this, it's a SAS model. I presume, how, how is it priced? Do you have a, do you have a freemium? How do I get started? Maybe you could give us some color. >>Yeah, we are a SAS provider. We do everything in the cloud, uh, offer it as a SAS offering, um, for customers to leverage and benefit from our pricing is based on the volume of, uh, uh, consolidated profiles. And the, I use the word profiles because this is not the traditional, uh, data model where you have rows columns, foreign keys. This is a, you know, a profile of a customer, regardless of attribution or any other details that you want to capture. And, um, you know, that just as an example is what we consider as a profile. So number of consolidated profiles under management is the key vector of pricing. Uh, customers can start small and they can grow from there. We have customers who manage anywhere from a few hundred thousand profiles, uh, you know, off these different types of data domains, customer, patient provider, uh, product, uh, asset, those types of details. But, uh, then they grow and some of the customers, uh, HP Inc, as a customer is managing close to 1.5 billion profiles of B2B businesses at a global scale of B2C consumers at global scale. And they continue to expand that footprint as they look at other opportunities to use the single source of truth capabilities provided by Reltio. >>And your relationship with AWS you're, you're obviously building on top of AWS, you're taking advantage of the cloud native capabilities. Are you in the AWS marketplace? Maybe you could talk about AWS relationship a bit. >>Yeah. AWS has been a key partner for us, uh, since the very beginning, uh, we are now on the marketplace. Uh, customers can start with the free version of the product, um, and start to play with the product, understand it better, uh, and then move into the paid tier, um, you know, as they bring in more data, uh, into Reltio. And, uh, you know, we also, uh, have, uh, the partnership with AWS where, uh, you know, customers can benefit from the relationship where they are able to, um, uh, use the, the spend against Reltio to offset the commitment credits that they have for AWS, um, you know, as a cloud provider. So, uh, you know, we are working closely with AWS on key verticals, like life sciences, travel and hospitality as a starting point. >>Nice that love, love, those credits, um, company update, uh, you know, head count funding, revenue trajectory, what kind of metrics are you comfortable sharing? >>So, uh, we are currently, uh, at about, um, you know, slightly North of 300 people, uh, overall at rail queue, we will, uh, grow from 300 to about 400 people this year, uh, itself. Uh, we are, uh, uh, you know, we just put out a press release, uh, where we mentioned some of the subscription ARR we finished last year at about $74 million in ARR. And we are, uh, looking at, uh, crossing the a hundred million dollar ARR, um, uh, threshold, uh, later this year. So we're on a great growth trajectory and, uh, the businesses, uh, performing really well. And we are, uh, looking at working with more customers and helping them solve this, uh, uh, you know, data silo, fragmentation of data problem by having them leverage the Reltio capability at scale across their enterprise. >>That's some impressive growth. Congratulations, w w we're, I'm sure adding a hundred people you're hiring all over the place, but where we get some of your priorities. >>So, um, you know, the, as the business is growing, we are spending equally both on the R and D side of the house, uh, investing more there, but at the same time, also on our go to market, uh, so that we can extend our reach, make sure that, uh, more people know about, uh, Reltio and can start leveraging the benefit of, uh, the technology that we have built on top of, uh, AWS. >>Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you've obviously nailed product market fit, and now you're, you know, scaling and scaling the go to market. You moved from CEO into the CTO role. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Why, why, what was prompted that move >>Problems of luxury, uh, you know, as I like to call them, uh, once you know, that you're on a great growth trajectory and, uh, the business is performing well, it's all about, uh, figuring out ways of, uh, you know, making sure that you can drive harder and faster towards that growth, uh, milestones, uh, that you want to achieve. And, uh, you know, for us, uh, the story is no different. Uh, the team has done a wonderful job of, uh, making sure that we can build the right platform, um, you know, work towards this opportunity, that PC, which by the way, um, they just to share with you, uh, MDM or master data management has always been underestimated as a, uh, you know, yes, there is a problem that needs to be solved, but the market sizing was, uh, in a, not as clear, but some of the most recent, uh, estimates from analysts like Gartner, but the, uh, you know, sort of the new incarnation of, uh, data unification and master data management at about a $30 billion, uh, you know, uh, Tam or this market. >>So with that comes the responsibility that we have to really make sure that we are able to bring this capability to a wide array of customers. And with that, uh, I looked at, uh, you know, how could we scale the business faster and have the right team to work, uh, help us maximize the opportunity. And that's why, uh, you know, we decided, uh, that it was the right point in time for me to bring in somebody who's, uh, worked, uh, at, uh, the stretch of, you know, taking a company from just a a hundred million dollars in ARR to, uh, you know, half a billion dollars in ARR and doing it at a global scale. So Chris Highland, uh, you know, has had that experience and having him take on the CEO role, uh, really puts us on a tremendous, uh, our path to tremendous growth and achieving that, uh, with the right team. >>Yeah. And I think I appreciate your comments on the Tam. I love to look at the Tam and to do a lot of Tam analysis. And I think a lot of times when you define the future Tam based on sort of historical categories, you sometimes under count them. I mean, to me, you guys are in the, the, the digital business business. I mean, the data transformation, the company transformation business, I mean, that could be order of magnitude even bigger. So I think the future is bright for your company. Reltio Maneesh. And thank you so much for coming on the program really appreciate. >>Well, thanks for having me, uh, really enjoyed it. Thank you. >>Okay. Thank you for watching. You're watching the cubes startup showcase. We'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> It's my pleasure, to be one of the hosts of theCUBE on cloud and the startup showcase brought to you by AWS. This is Dave Vellante and for years theCUBE has been following the trail of data. And with the relentless match of data growth this idea of a single version of the truth has become more and more elusive. Moreover, data has become the lifeblood of a digital business. And if there's one thing that we've learned throughout the pandemic, if you're not digital, you're in trouble. So we've seen firsthand, the critical importance of reliable and trusted data. And with me to talk about his company and the trends in the market is Manish Sood the CTO and co-founder of Reltio. Manish, welcome to the program. >> Thank you, Dave. It's a pleasure to be here. >> Okay, let's start with, let's go back to you and your co-founders when you started Reltio it was back in the early days of the big data movement, cloud was kind of just starting to take off, but what problems did you see then and what are enterprises struggling with today, especially with data as a source of digital innovation. >> Dave, if you look at the changes that have taken place in the landscape over the course of the last 10 years, when we started Reltio in 2011 there were a few secular trends that were coming to life. One was a cloud compute type of capabilities being provided by vendors like AWS. It was starting to pick up steam where making compute capabilities available at scale to solve large data problems was becoming real and possible. The second thing that we saw was this big trend of you know, you can not have a wall to wall, one single application that solves your entire business problem. Those visions have come and gone and we are seeing more of the best of breed application type of a landscape where even if you look within a specific function let's say sales or marketing, you have more than a dozen applications that any company is using today. And that trend was starting to emerge where we knew very well that the number of systems that we would have to work with would continue to increase. And that created a problem of where would you get the single source of truth or the single best origin of a customer, a supplier, a product that you're trying to sell, those types of critical pieces of information that are core to any business that's out there today. And, you know, that created the opportunity for us at Reltio to think about the problem at scale for every company out there, every business who needed this kind of capability and for us to provide this capability in the cloud as a software, as a service offering. So that's where, you know, the foundation of Reltio started. And the core problem that we wanted to solve was to bridge the gap that was created by all these data silos, and create a unified view of the core critical information that these companies run on. >> Yeah, the cloud is this giant, you know hyper distributed system, data by its very nature is distributed. It's interesting what you were sort of implying about you know, the days of the monolithic app are gone, but my business partner years ago John Furrier at theCUBE said, data is going to become the new development kit. And we've certainly seen that with the pandemic but tell us more about Reltio and how you help customers deal with that notion of data silos, data fragmentation, how do you solve that problem? >> So data fragmentation is what exists today. And, with the Reltio software as a service offering that we provide, we allow customers to stitch together and unify the data coming from these different fragmented siloed applications or data sources that they have within their enterprise. At the same time, there's a lot of dependence on the third party data. You know, when you think about different problems that you're trying to solve, you have for B2B type of information that in Bradstreet type of data providers, in life sciences you have IQVIA type of data providers. You know, as you look at other verticals that is a specialized third party data provider for any and every kind of information that most of the enterprise businesses want to combine with their in-house data or first party data to get the best view of who they're dealing with, who are they working with, you know who are the customers that they're serving and use that information also as a starting point for the digital transformation that they want to get to. And that's where Reltio fits in as the only platform that can help stitch together this kind of information and create a 360 degree view that spans all the data silos and provides that for real-time use, for BI and analytics to benefit from, for data science to benefit from, and then this emerging notion of data in itself is a, you know, key starting point that is used by us in order to make any decisions. Just like we go, you know, if I they wanted to look at information about you, I would go to places like LinkedIn, look up the information, and then on my next set of decisions with that information. If somebody wanted to look up information on Reltio they would go to, let's say crunchbase as an example and look up, who are the investors? How much money have we raised? All those details that are available. It's not a CRM system by itself but it is an information application that can aid and assist in the decision-making process as a starting point. And that user experience on top of the data becomes an important vehicle for us to provide as a part of the Reltio platform capabilities. >> Awesome, thank you. And I want to get into the tech, but before we do maybe we just cut to the chase and maybe you can talk about some of the examples of Reltio and action, some of the customers that you can talk about, maybe the industries that are really adopting this. What can you tell us there Manish? >> We work across a few different verticals some of the key verticals that we work in are life sciences and travel and hospitality and financial services, insurance retail, as an example. Those are some of the key verticals for us. But to give you some examples of the type of problems that customers are solving with Reltio as the data unification platform, let's take CarMax as an example,. CarMax is a customer who's in the business of buying used cars, selling used cars servicing those used cars. And then, you know, you as a customer don't just transact with them once, you know, you've had a car for three years you go back and look at what can you trade in that car for? But in order for CarMax to provide a service to you that goes across all the different touch points whether you are visiting them at their store location trying to test drive a car or viewing information about the various vehicles on their website, or just you know, punching in the registration number of your car just to see what is the appraisal from them in terms of how much will they pay for your car. This requires a lot of data behind the scenes for them to provide a seamless journey across all touch points. And the type of information that they use relative for aggregating, unifying, and then making available across all these touch points, is all of the information about the customers, all of the information about the household, you know, the understanding that they are trying to achieve because life events can be buying signals for consumers like you and I, as well as who was the associate who helped you either in the selling of a car, buying of a car, because their business is all about building relationships for the longer term, lifetime value that they want to capture. And in that process, making sure that they're providing continuity of relationship, they need to keep track of that data. And then the vehicle itself, the vehicle that you buy yourself, there is a lot of information in order to price it right, that needs to be gathered from multiple sources. So the continuum of data all the way from consumer to the vehicle is aggregated from multiple sources, unified inside Reltio and then made available through APIs or through other methods and means to the various applications, can be either built on top of that information, or can consume that information in order to better aid and assist the processes, business processes that those applications have to run and to end. >> Well, sounds like we come along, (indistinct). >> I was just going to say that's one example and, you know across other verticals, that are other similar examples of how companies are leveraging, Reltio >> Yeah, so as you say, we've come a long way from simple linear clickstream analysis of a website. I mean, you're talking about really rich information and you know happy to dig into some other examples, but I wonder how does it work? I mean, what's the magic behind it? What's the tech look like? I mean, obviously leveraging AWS, maybe you could talk about how, so, and maybe some of the services there and some of your unique IP. >> Yeah, you know, so the unique opportunity for us when we started in 2011 was really to leverage the power of the cloud. We started building out this capability on top of AWS back in 2011. And, you know, if you think about the problem itself, the problem has been around as long as you have had more than one system to run your business, but the magnitude of the problem has expanded several fold. You know, for example, I have been in this area was responsible for creating some of the previous generation capabilities and most of the friction in those previous generation MDM or master data management type of solutions as the you know, the technical term that is used to refer to this area, was that those systems could not keep pace with the increasing number of sources or the depth and breadth of the information that customers want to capture, whether it is, you know, about a patient or a product or let's say a supplier that you're working with, there is always additional information that you can capture and you know use to better inform the decisions for the next engagement. And that kind of model where the number of sources we're always going to increase the depth and breadth of information was always going to increase. The previous generation systems were not geared to handle that. So we decided that not only would we use add scale compute capabilities in the cloud, with the products like AWS as the backbone, but also solve some of the core problems around how more sources of information can be unified at scale. And then the last mile, which is the ability to consume such rich information just locking it in a data warehouse has been sort of the problem in the past, and you talked about the clickstream analysis. Analytics has a place, but most of the analytics is a real view mirror picture of the, you know, work that you have to do versus everybody that we talk to as a potential customer wanted to solve the problem of what can we do at the point of engagement? How can we influence decisions? So, you know, I'll give you an example. I think everybody's familiar with Quicken loans as the mortgage lender, and in the mortgage lending business, Quicken loans is the customer who's using Reltio as the customer data unification platform behind the scenes. But every interaction that takes place, their goal is that they have a very narrow time vendor, you know anywhere from 10 minutes to about an hour where if somebody expresses an interest in refinancing or getting a mortgage they have to close that business within that hot vendor. The conversion ratios are exponentially better in that hot vendor versus waiting for 48 hours to come back with the answer of what will you be able to refinance your mortgage at? And they've been able to use this notion of real time data where as soon as you come in through the website or if you come in through the rocket mortgage app or you're talking to a broker by calling the 1800 number they are able to triangulate that it's the same person coming from any of these different channels and respond to that person with an offer ASAP so that there is no opportunity for the competition to get in and present you with a better offer. So those are the types of things where the time to conversion or the time to action is being looked at, and everybody's trying to shrink that time down. That ability to respond in real time with the capabilities were sort of the last mile missing out of this equation, which didn't exist with previous generation capabilities, and now customers are able to benefit from that. >> That is an awesome example. I know at firsthand, I'm a customer of Quicken and rocket when you experience that environment, it's totally different, than anything you've ever seen before. So it's helpful to hear you explain like what's behind that because, it's truly disruptive and I'll tell you the other thing that sort of triggered a thought was that we use the word realtime a lot and we try to develop years ago. We said, what does real-time really mean? And the answer we landed on was, before you lose the customer, and that's kind of what you just described. And that is what gives as an example a quick and a real advantage again, having experienced it firsthand. It's pretty, pretty tremendous. So that's a nice reference. So, and the other thing that struck me is, I wanted to ask you how it's different from sort of legacy Master Data Management solutions and you sort of described that they've since to me they've got to take their traditional on-prime stack, rip it out, stick it in the iCloud, it's okay we got our stack in the cloud now. Your technical approach is dramatically different. You had the advantage of having a clean sheet of paper, right? I mean, from a CTO's perspective, what's your take? >> Yeah, the clean sheet of paper is the luxury that we have. You know, having seen this movie before having, you know looked at solving this problem with previous generation technologies, it was really the opportunity to start with a clean sheet of paper and define a cloud native architecture for solving the problem at scale. So just to give you an example, you know, across all of our customers, we are today managing about 6.5 billion consolidated profiles of people, organizations, product, locations, you know, assets, those kinds of details. And these are the types of crown jewels of the business that every business runs on. You know, for example, if you wanted to let's say you're a large company, like, you know, Ford and you wanted to figure out how much business are you doing, whether, you know another large company, because the other large company could be a global organization, could be spread across multiple geographies, could have multiple subsidiaries associated with it. It's been a very difficult to answer to understand what is the total book of business that they have with that other big customer. And, you know, being able to have the right, unified, relevant, ready clean information as the starting point that gives you visibility to that data, and then allows you to run precise analytics on top of that data, or, you know drive any kind of conclusions out of the data science type of algorithms or MLAI algorithms that you're trying to run. You have to have that foundation of clean data to work with in order to get to those answers. >> Nice, and then I had questions on just analysis, it's a SAS model I presume, how is it priced? Do you have a freemium? How do I get started? Maybe you could give us some color on that. >> Yeah, we are a SAS provider. We do everything in the cloud, offer it as a SAS offering for customers to leverage and benefit from. Our pricing is based on the volume of consolidated profiles, and I use the word profiles because this is not the traditional data model, where you have rows, columns, foreign keys. This is a profile of a customer, regardless of attribution or any other details that you want to capture. And you know, that just as an example is what we consider as a profile. So number of consolidated profiles under management is the key vector of pricing. Customers can start small and they can grow from there. We have customers who manage anywhere from a few hundred thousand profiles, you know, off these different types of data domains, customer, patient, provider, product, asset, those types of details, but then they grow and some of the customers HPInc, as a customer, is managing close to 1.5 billion profiles of B2B businesses at a global scale of B2C consumers at global scale. And they continue to expand that footprint as they look at other opportunities to use, the single source of truth capabilities provided by Reltio. >> And, and your relationship with AWS, you're obviously building on top of AWS, you're taking advantage of the cloud native capabilities. Are you in the AWS marketplace? Maybe you could talk about AWS relationship a bit. >> Yeah, AWS has been a key partner for us since the very beginning. We are now on the marketplace. Customers can start with the free version of the product and start to play with the product, understand it better and then move into the paid tier, you know as they bring in more data into Reltio and, you know be also have the partnership with AWS where, you know customers can benefit from the relationship where they are able to use the spend against Reltio to offset the commitment credits that they have for AWS, you know, as a cloud provider. So, you know, we are working closely with AWS on key verticals, like life sciences, travel and hospitality as a starting point. >> Nice, love those credits. Company update, you know, head count, funding, revenue trajectory what kind of metrics are you comfortable sharing? >> So we are currently at about, you know, slightly not at 300 people overall at Reltio. We will grow from 300 to about 400 people this year itself we are, you know, we just put out a press release where we mentioned some of the subscription ARR we finished last year at about $74 million in ARR. And we are looking at crossing the hundred million dollar ARR threshold later this year. So we are on a great growth trajectory and the business is performing really well. And we are looking at working with more customers and helping them solve this, you know, data silo, fragmentation of data problem by having them leverage the Reltio capability at scale across their enterprise. >> That's some impressive growth, congratulations. We're, I'm sure adding hundred people you're hiring all over the place, but where we are some of your priorities? >> So, you know, the, as the business is growing we are spending equally, both on the R and D side of the house investing more there, but at the same time also on our go to market so that we can extend our reach, make sure that more people know about Reltio and can start leveraging the benefit of the technology that we have built on top of AWS. >> Yeah, I mean it sounds like you've obviously nailed product market fit and now you're, you know, scaling the grip, go to market. You moved from CEO into the CTO role. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Why, what was prompted that move? >> Problems of luxury, you know, as I like to call them once you know that you're in a great growth trajectory, and the business is performing well, it's all about figuring out ways of, you know making sure that you can drive harder and faster towards that growth milestones that you want to achieve. And, you know, for us, the story is no different. The team has done a wonderful job of making sure that we can build the right platform, you know work towards this opportunity that we see, which by the way they've just to share with you, MDM or Master Data Management has always been underestimated as a, you know, yes there is a problem that needs to be solved but the market sizing was in a, not as clear but some of the most recent estimates from analysts like Gartner, but the, you know, sort of the new incarnation of data unification and Master Data Management at about a $30 billion, yeah, TAM for this market. So with that comes the responsibility that we have to really make sure that we are able to bring this capability to a wide array of customers. And with that, I looked at, you know how could we scale the business faster and have the right team to work help us maximize the opportunity. And that's why, you know, we decided that it was the right point in time for me to bring in somebody who's worked at the stretch of, you know taking a company from just a hundred million dollars in ARR to, you know, half a billion dollars in ARR and doing it at a global scale. So Chris Highland, you know, has had that experience and having him take on the CEO role really puts us on a tremendous path or path to tremendous growth and achieving that with the right team. >> Yeah, and I think I appreciate your comments on the TAM. I love to look at the TAM and to do a lot of TAM analysis. And I think a lot of times when you define the the future TAM based on sort of historical categories, you sometimes under count them. I mean, to me you guys are in the digital business. I mean, the data transformation the company transformation business, I mean that could be order of magnitude even bigger. So I think the future is bright for your company Reltio, Manish and thank you so much for coming on the program. Really appreciate it. >> Well, thanks for having me, really enjoyed it. Thank you. >> Okay, thank you for watching. You're watching theCUBEs Startup Showcase. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this special cloud virtual event, theCUBE on cloud. This is our continuing editorial series of the most important stories in cloud. We're going to explore the cutting edge most relevant technologies and companies that will impact business and society. We have special guests from Jeff Barr, Michael Liebow, Jerry Chen, Ben Haynes, Michael skulk, Mike Feinstein from AWS all today are presenting the top startups in the AWS ecosystem. This is the AWS showcase of startups. I'm showing with Dave Vellante. Dave great to see you. >> Hey John. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So awesome day today. We're going to feature a 10 grade companies amplitude, auto grid, big ID, cordial Dremio Kong, multicloud, Reltio stardog wire wheel, companies that we've talked to. We've researched. And they're going to present today from 10 for the rest of the day. What's your thoughts? >> Well, John, a lot of these companies were just sort of last decade, they really, were keyer kicker mode, experimentation mode. Now they're well on their way to hitting escape velocity which is very exciting. And they're hitting tens of millions dollars of ARR, many are planning IPO's and it's just it's really great to see what the cloud has enabled and we're going to dig into that very deeply today. So I'm super excited. >> Before we jump into the keynote (mumbles) our non Huff from AWS up on stage Jeremy is the brains behind this program that we're doing. We're going to do this quarterly. Jeremy great to see you, you're in the global startups program at AWS. Your job is to keep the crops growing, keep the startups going and keep the flow of innovation. Thanks for joining us. >> Yeah. Made it to startup showcase day. I'm super excited. And as you mentioned my team the global startup program team, we kind of provide white glove service for VC backed startups and help them with go to market activities. Co-selling with AWS and we've been looking for ways to highlight all the great work they're doing and partnering with you guys has been tremendous. You guys really know how to bring their stories to life. So super excited about all the partner sessions today. >> Well, I really appreciate the vision and working with Amazon this is like truly a bar raiser from theCUBE virtual perspective, using the virtual we can get more content, more flow and great to have you on and bring that the top hot startups around data, data ops. Certainly the most important story in tech is cloud scale with data. You you can't look around and seeing more innovation happening. So I really appreciate the work. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, and don't forget, we're making this a quarterly series. So the next one we've already been working on it. The next one is Wednesday, June 16th. So mark your calendars, but super excited to continue doing these showcases with you guys in the future. >> Thanks for coming on Jeremy. I really appreciate it,. Dave so I want to just quick quickly before we get Jeff up here, Jeff Barr who's a luminary guests for us this week who has been in the industry has been there from the beginning of AWS the role of data, and what's happened in cloud. And we've been watching the evolution of Amazon web services from the beginning, from the startup market to dominate in the enterprise. If you look at the top 10 enterprise companies Amazon wasn't on that list in 2010 they weren't even bringing the top 10 Andy Jassy's keynote at reinvent this past year. Highlighted that fact, I think they were number five or four as vendor in just AWS. So interesting to see that you've been reporting and doing a lot of analysis on the role of data. What's your analysis for these startups and as businesses need to embrace the new technologies and be on the right side of history not part of that old guard, incumbent failed model. >> Well, I think again, if you look back on the early days of cloud, it was really about storage and networking and compute infrastructure. And then we collected all this data and now you're seeing the next generation of innovation and value. We're going to talk to Michael Liebow about this is really if you look at all the value points in the leavers, it's all around data and data is going through a massive change in the way that we think about it, that we talk about it. And you hear that a lot. Obviously you talk about the volumes, the giant volumes but there's something else going on as AWS brings the cloud to the edge. And of course it looks at the data centers, just another edge device, data is getting highly decentralized. And what we're seeing is data getting into the hands of business owners and data product builders. I think we're going to see a new parlance emerge and that's where you're seeing the competitive advantage. And if you look at all the real winners these days in the marketplace especially in the digital with COVID, it all comes back to the data. And we're going to talk about that a lot today. >> One of the things that's coming up in all of our cube interviews, certainly we've seen, I mean we've had a great observation space across all the ecosystems, but the clear thing that's coming out of COVID is speed, agility, scale, and data. If you don't have that data you are going to be a non-player. And I think I heard some industry people talking about the future of how the stock market's going to work and that if you're not truly in market with an AI or machine learning data value play you probably will be shorted on the stock market or delisted. I think people are looking at that as a table stakes competitive advantage item, where if you don't have some sort of data competitive strategy you're going to be either delisted or sold short. And that's, I don't think delisted but the point is this table-stakes Dave. >> Well, I think too, I think the whole language the lingua franca of data is changing. We talk about data as an asset all the time, but you think about it now, what do we do with assets? We protect it, we hide it. And we kind of we don't share it. But then on the other hand, everybody talks about sharing the data and that is a huge trend in the marketplace. And so I think that everybody is really starting to rethink the whole concept of data, what it is, its value and how we think about it, talk about it, share it make it accessible, and at the same time, protect it and make it governed. And I think you're seeing, computational governance and automation really hidden. Couldn't do this without the cloud. I mean, that's the bottom line. >> Well, I'm super excited to have Jeff Barr here from AWS as our special keynote guests. I've been following Jeff's career for a long, long time. He's a luminaries, he's a technical, he's in the industry. He's part of the community, he's been there from the beginning AWS just celebrate its 15th birthday as he was blogging hard. He's been a hardcore blogger. I think Jeff, you had one of the original ping service. If I remember correctly, you were part of the web services foundational kind of present at creation. No better guests to have you Jeff thanks for coming up on our stage. >> John and Dave really happy to be here. >> So I got to ask you, you've been blogging hard for the past decade or so, going hard and your job has evolved from blogging about what's new with Amazon. A couple of building blocks a few services to last reinvent them. You must have put out I don't know how many blog posts did you put out last year at every event? I mean, it must have been a zillion. >> Not quite a zillion. I think I personally wrote somewhere between 20 and 25 including quite a few that I did in the month or so run up to reinvent and it's always intense, but it's always really, really fun. >> So I've got to ask you in the past couple of years, I mean I quoted Andy Jassy's keynote where we highlight in 2010 Amazon wasn't even on the top 10 enterprise players. Now in the top five, you've seen the evolution. What is the big takeaway from your standpoint as you look at the enterprise going from Amazon really dominating the start of a year startups today, you're in the cloud, you're born in the cloud. There's advantage to that. Now enterprises are kind of being reborn in the cloud at the same time, they're building these new use cases rejuvenating themselves and having innovation strategy. What's your takeaway? >> So I love to work with our customers and one of the things that I hear over and over again and especially the last year or two is really the value that they're placing on building a workforce that has really strong cloud skills. They're investing in education. They're focusing on this neat phrase that I learned in Australia called upskilling and saying let's take our set of employees and improve their skill base. I hear companies really saying we're going to go cloud first. We're going to be cloud native. We're going to really embrace it, adopt the full set of cloud services and APIs. And I also see that they're really looking at cloud as part of often a bigger picture. They often use the phrase digital transformation, in Amazon terms we'd say they're thinking big. They're really looking beyond where they are and who they are to what they could be and what they could grow into. Really putting a lot of energy and creativity into thinking forward in that way. >> I wonder Jeff, if you could talk about sort of how people are thinking about the future of cloud if you look at where the spending action is obviously you see it in cloud computing. We've seen that as the move to digital, serverless Lambda is huge. If you look at the data it's off the charts, machine learning and AI also up there containers and of course, automation, AWS leads in all of those. And they portend a different sort of programming model a different way of thinking about how to deploy workloads and applications maybe different than the early days of cloud. What's driving that generally and I'm interested in serverless specifically. And how do you see the next several years folding out? >> Well, they always say that the future is the hardest thing to predict but when I talked to our enterprise customers the two really big things that I see is there's this focus that says we need to really, we're not simply like hosting the website or running the MRP. I'm working with one customer in particular where they say, well, we're going to start on the factory floor all the way up to the boardroom effectively from IOT and sensors on the factory floor to feed all the data into machine learning. So they understand that the factory is running really well to actually doing planning and inventory maintenance to putting it on the website to drive the analytics, to then saying, okay, well how do we know that we're building the right product mix? How do we know that we're getting it out through the right channels? How are our customers doing? So they're really saying there's so many different services available to us in the cloud and they're relatively easy and straightforward to deploy. They really don't think in the old days as we talked about earlier that the old days where these multi-year planning and deployment cycles, now it's much more straightforward. It's like let's see what we can do today. And this week and this month, and from idea to some initial results is a much, much shorter turnaround. So they can iterate a lot more quickly which is just always known to produce better results. >> Well, Jeff and the spirit of the 15th birthday of AWS a lot of services have been built from the original three. I believe it was the core building blocks and there's been a lot of history and it's kind of like there was a key decoupling of compute from storage, those innovations what's the most important architectural change if any has happened or built upon those building blocks with AWS that you could share with companies out there as many people are coming into the cloud not just lifting and shifting and having that innovation but really building cloud native and now hybrid full cloud operations, day two operations. However you want to look at it. That's a big thing. What architecturally has changed that's been innovative from those original building blocks? >> Well, I think that the basic architecture has proven to be very, very resilient. When I wrote about the 15 year birthday of Amazon S3 a couple of weeks ago one thing that I thought was really incredible was the fact that the same APIs that you could have used 15 years ago they all still work. The put, the get, the list, the delete, the permissions management, every last one of those were chosen with extreme care. And so they all still work. So one of the things you think about when you put APIs out there is in Amazon terms we always talk about going through a one-way door and a one way door says, once you do it you're committed for the indefinite future. And so you we're very happy to do that but we take those steps with extreme care. And so those basic building blocks so the original S3 APIs, the original EC2 APIs and the model, all those things really worked. But now they're running at this just insane scale. One thing that blows me away I routinely hear my colleagues talking about petabytes and exabytes, and we throw around trillions and quadrillions like they're pennies. It's kind of amazing. Sometimes when you hear the scale of requests per day or request per month, and the orders of magnitude are you can't map them back to reality anymore. They're simply like literally astronomical. >> If I can just jump in real quick Dave before you ask Jeff, I was watching the Jeff Bezos interview in 1999 that's been going around on LinkedIn in a 60 minutes interview. The interviewer says you are reporting that you can store a gigabyte of customer data from all their purchases. What are you going to do with that? He basically nailed the answer. This is in 99. We're going to use that data to create, that was only a gig. >> Well one of the things that is interesting to me guys, is if you look at again, the early days of cloud, of course I always talked about that in small companies like ours John could have now access to information technology that only big companies could get access to. And now you've seen we just going to talk about it today. All these startups rise up and reach viability. But at the same time, Jeff you've seen big companies get the aha moment on cloud and competition drives urgency and that drives innovation. And so now you see everybody is doing cloud, it's a mandate. And so the expectation is a lot more innovation, experimentation and speed from all ends. It's really exciting to see. >> I know this sounds hackneyed and overused but it really, really still feels just like day one. We're 15 plus years into this. I still wake up every morning, like, wow what is the coolest thing that I'm going to get to learn about and write about today? We have the most amazing customers, one of the things that is great when you're so well connected to your customers, they keep telling you about their dreams, their aspirations, their use cases. And we can just take that and say we can actually build awesome things to help you address those use cases from the ground on up, from building custom hardware things like the nitro system, the graviton to the machine learning inferencing and training chips where we have such insight into customer use cases because we have these awesome customers that we can make these incredible pieces of hardware and software to really address those use cases. >> I'm glad you brought that up. This is another big change, right? You're getting the early days of cloud like, oh, Amazon they're just using off the shelf components. They're not buying these big refrigerator sized disc drives. And now you're developing all this custom Silicon and vertical integration in certain aspects of your business. And that's because workload is demanding. You've got to get more specialized in a lot of cases. >> Indeed they do. And if you watch Peter DeSantis' keynote at re-invent he talked about the fact that we're researching ways to make better cement that actually produces less carbon dioxide. So we're now literally at the from the ground on up level of construction. >> Jeff, I want to get a question from the crowd here. We got, (mumbles) who's a good friend of theCUBE cloud Arate from the beginning. He asked you, he wants to know if you'd like to share Amazon's edge aspirations. He says, he goes, I mean, roadmaps. I go, first of all, he's not going to talk about the roadmaps, but what can you share? I mean, obviously the edge is key. Outpost has been all in the news. You obviously at CloudOps is not a boundary. It's a distributed network. What's your response to-- >> Well, the funny thing is we don't generally have technology roadmaps inside the company. The roadmap is always listen really well to customers not just where they are, but the customers are just so great at saying, this is where we'd like to go. And when we hear edge, the customers don't generally come to us and say edge, they say we need as low latency as possible between where the action happens within our factory floors and our own offices and where we might be able to compute, analyze, store make decisions. And so that's resulted in things like outposts where we can put outposts in their own data center or their own field office, wavelength, where we're working with 5G telecom providers to put computing storage in the carrier hubs of the various 5G providers. Again, with reducing latency, we've been doing things like local zones, where we put zones in an increasing number of cities across the country with the goal of just reducing the average latency between the vast majority of customers and AWS resources. So instead of thinking edge, we really think in terms of how do we make sure that our customers can realize their dreams. >> Staying on the flywheel that AWS has built on ship stuff faster, make things faster, smaller, cheaper, great mission. I want to ask you about the working backwards document. I know it's been getting a lot of public awareness. I've been, that's all I've learned in interviewing Amazon folks. They always work backwards. I always mentioned the customer and all the interviews. So you've got a couple of customer references in there check the box there for you. But working backwards has become kind of a guiding principles, almost like a Harvard Business School case study approach to management. As you guys look at this working backwards and ex Amazonians have written books about it now so people can go look at, it's a really good methodology. Take us back to how you guys work back from the customers because here we're featuring 10 startups. So companies that are out there and Andy has been preaching this to customers. You should think about working backwards because it's so fast. These companies are going into this enterprise market your ecosystem of startups to provide value. What things are you seeing that customers need to think about to work backwards from their customer? How do you see that? 'Cause you've been on the community side, you see the tech side customers have to move fast and work backwards. What are the things that they need to focus on? What's your observation? >> So there's actually a brand new book called "Working Backwards," which I actually learned a lot about our own company from simply reading the book. And I think to me, a principal part of learning backward it's really about humility and being able to be a great listener. So you don't walk into a customer meeting ready to just broadcast the latest and greatest that we've been working on. You walk in and say, I'm here from AWS and I simply want to learn more about who you are, what you're doing. And most importantly, what do you want to do that we're not able to help you with right now? And then once we hear those kinds of things we don't simply write down kind of a bullet item of AWS needs to improve. It's this very active listening process. Tell me a little bit more about this challenge and if we solve it in this way or this way which one's a better fit for your needs. And then a typical AWS launch, we might talk to between 50 and 100 customers in depth to make sure that we have that detailed understanding of what they would like to do. We can't always meet all the needs of these customers but the idea is let's see what is the common base that we can address first. And then once we get that first iteration out there, let's keep listening, let's keep making it better and better and better as quickly. >> A lot of people might poopoo that John but I got to tell you, John, you will remember this the first time we ever met Andy Jassy face-to-face. I was in the room, you were on the speaker phone. We were building an app on AWS at the time. And he was asking you John, for feedback. And he was probing and he pulled out his notebook. He was writing down and he wasn't just superficial questions. He was like, well, why'd you do it that way? And he really wanted to dig. So this is cultural. >> Yeah. I mean, that's the classic Amazon. And that's the best thing about it is that you can go from zero startups zero stage startup to traction. And that was the premise of the cloud. Jeff, I want to get your thoughts and commentary on this love to get your opinion. You've seen this grow from the beginning. And I remember 'cause I've been playing with AWS since the beginning as well. And it says as an entrepreneur I remember my first EC2 instance that didn't even have custom domain support. It was the long URL. You seen the startups and now that we've been 15 years in, you see Dropbox was it just a startup back in the day. I remember these startups that when they were coming they were all born on Amazon, right? These big now unicorns, you were there when these guys were just developers and these gals. So what's it like, I mean, you see just the growth like here's a couple of people with them ideas rubbing nickels together, making magic happen who knows what's going to turn into, you've been there. What's it been like? >> It's been a really unique journey. And to me like the privilege of a lifetime, honestly I've like, you always want to be part of something amazing and you aspire to it and you study hard and you work hard and you always think, okay, somewhere in this universe something really cool is about to happen. And if you're really, really lucky and just a million great pieces of luck like lineup in series, sometimes it actually all works out and you get to be part of something like this when it does you don't always fully appreciate just how awesome it is from the inside, because you're just there just like feeding the machine and you are just doing your job just as fast as you possibly can. And in my case, it was listening to teams and writing blog posts about their launches and sharing them on social media, going out and speaking, you do it, you do it as quickly as possible. You're kind of running your whole life as you're doing that as well. And suddenly you just take a little step back and say, wow we did this kind of amazing thing, but we don't tend to like relax and say, okay, we've done it at Amazon. We get to a certain point. We recognize it. And five minutes later, we're like, okay, let's do the next amazingly good thing. But it's been this just unique privilege and something that I never thought I'd be fortunate enough to be a part of. >> Well, then the last few minutes we have Jeff I really appreciate you taking the time to spend with us for this inaugural launch of theCUBE on cloud startup showcase. We are showcasing 10 startups here from your ecosystem. And a lot of people who know AWS for the folks that don't you guys pride yourself on community and ecosystem the global startups program that Jeremy and his team are running. You guys nurture these startups. You want them to be successful. They're vectoring out into the marketplace with growth strategy, helping customers. What's your take on this ecosystem? As customers are out there listening to this what's your advice to them? How should they engage? Why is these sets of start-ups so important? >> Well, I totally love startups and I've spent time in several startups. I've spent other time consulting with them. And I think we're in this incredible time now wheres, it's so easy and straightforward to get those basic resources, to get your compute, to get your storage, to get your databases, to get your machine learning and to take that and to really focus on your customers and to build what you want. And we see this actual exponential growth. And we see these startups that find something to do. They listen to one of their customers, they build that solution. And they're just that feedback cycle gets started. It's really incredible. And I love to see the energy of these startups. I love to hear from them. And at any point if we've got an AWS powered startup and they build something awesome and want to share it with me, I'm all ears. I love to hear about them. Emails, Twitter mentions, whatever I'll just love to hear about all this energy all those great success with our startups. >> Jeff Barr, thank you for coming on. And congratulations, please pass on to Andy Jassy who's going to take over for Jeff Bezos and I saw the big news that he's picking a successor an Amazonian coming back into the fold, Adam. So congratulations on that. >> I will definitely pass on your congratulations to Andy and I worked with Adam in the past when AWS was just getting started and really looking forward to seeing him again, welcoming back and working with him. >> All right, Jeff Barr with AWS guys check out his Twitter and all the social coordinates. He is pumping out all the resources you need to know about if you're a developer or you're an enterprise looking to go to the next level, next generation, modern infrastructure. Thanks Jeff for coming on. Really appreciate it. Our next guests want to bring up stage Michael Liebow from McKinsey cube alumni, who is a great guest who is very timely in his McKinsey role with a paper he and his colleagues put out called cloud's trillion dollar prize up for grabs. Michael, thank you for coming up on stage with Dave and I. >> Hey, great to be here, John. Thank you. >> One of the things I loved about this and why I wanted you to come on was not only is the report awesome. And Dave has got a zillion questions, he want us to drill into. But in 2015, we wrote a story called Andy Jassy trillion dollar baby on Forbes, and then on medium and silken angle where we were the first ones to profile Andy Jassy and talk about this trillion dollar term. And Dave came up with the calculation and people thought we were crazy. What are you talking about trillion dollar opportunity. That was in 2015. You guys have put this together with a serious research report with methodology and you left a lot on the table. I noticed in the report you didn't even have a whole section quantified. So I think just scratching the surface trillion. I'd be a little light, Dave, so let's dig into it, Michael thanks for coming on. >> Well, and I got to say, Michael that John's a trillion dollar baby was revenue. Yours is EBITDA. So we're talking about seven to X, seven to eight X. What we were talking back then, but great job on the report. Fantastic work. >> Thank you. >> So tell us about the report gives a quick lowdown. I got some questions. You guys are unlocking the value drivers but give us a quick overview of this report that people can get for free. So everyone who's registered will get a copy but give us a quick rundown. >> Great. Well the question I think that has bothered all of us for a long time is what's the business value of cloud and how do you quantify it? How do you specify it? Because a lot of people talk around the infrastructure or technical value of cloud but that actually is a big problem because it just scratches the surface of the potential of what cloud can mean. And we focus around the fortune 500. So we had to box us in somewhat. And so focusing on the fortune 500 and fast forwarding to 2030, we put out this number that there's over a trillion dollars worth of value. And we did a lot of analysis using research from a variety of partners, using third-party research, primary research in order to come up with this view. So the business value is two X the technical value of cloud. And as you just pointed out, there is a whole unlock of additional value where organizations can pioneer on some of the newest technologies. And so AWS and others are creating platforms in order to do not just machine learning and analytics and IOT, but also for quantum or mixed reality for blockchain. And so organizations specific around the fortune 500 that aren't leveraging these capabilities today are going to get left behind. And that's the message we were trying to deliver that if you're not doing this and doing this with purpose and with great execution, that others, whether it's others in your industry or upstarts who were motioning into your industry, because as you say cloud democratizes compute, it provides these capabilities and small companies with talent. And that's what the skills can leverage these capabilities ahead of slow moving incumbents. And I think that was the critical component. So that gives you the framework. We can deep dive based on your questions. >> Well before we get into the deep dive, I want to ask you we have startups being showcased here as part of the, it will showcase, they're coming out of the ecosystem. They have a lot of certification from Amazon and they're secure, which is a big issue. Enterprises that you guys talk to McKinsey speaks directly to I call the boardroom CXOs, the top executives. Are they realizing that the scale and timing of this agility window? I mean, you want to go through these key areas that you would break out but as startups become more relevant the boardrooms that are making these big decisions realize that their businesses are up for grabs. Do they realize that all this wealth is shifting? And do they see the role of startups helping them? How did you guys come out of them and report on that piece? >> Well in terms of the whole notion, we came up with this framework which looked at the opportunity. We talked about it in terms of three dimensions, rejuvenate, innovate and pioneer. And so from the standpoint of a board they're more than focused on not just efficiency and cost reduction basically tied to nation, but innovation tied to analytics tied to machine learning, tied to IOT, tied to two key attributes of cloud speed and scale. And one of the things that we did in the paper was leverage case examples from across industry, across-region there's 17 different case examples. My three favorite is one is Moderna. So software for life couldn't have delivered the vaccine as fast as they did without cloud. My second example was Goldman Sachs got into consumer banking is the platform behind the Apple card couldn't have done it without leveraging cloud. And the third example, particularly in early days of the pandemic was Zoom that added five to 6,000 servers a night in order to scale to meet the demand. And so all three of those examples, plus the other 14 just indicate in business terms what the potential is and to convince boards and the C-suite that if you're not doing this, and we have some recommendations in terms of what CEOs should do in order to leverage this but to really take advantage of those capabilities. >> Michael, I think it's important to point out the approach at sometimes it gets a little wonky on the methodology but having done a lot of these types of studies and observed there's a lot of superficial studies out there, a lot of times people will do, they'll go I'll talk to a customer. What kind of ROI did you get? And boom, that's the value study. You took a different approach. You have benchmark data, you talked to a lot of companies. You obviously have a lot of financial data. You use some third-party data, you built models, you bounded it. And ultimately when you do these things you have to ascribe a value contribution to the cloud component because fortunate 500 companies are going to grow even if there were no cloud. And the way you did that is again, you talk to people you model things, and it's a very detailed study. And I think it's worth pointing out that this was not just hey what'd you get from going to cloud before and after. This was a very detailed deep dive with really a lot of good background work going into it. >> Yeah, we're very fortunate to have the McKinsey Global Institute which has done extensive studies in these areas. So there was a base of knowledge that we could leverage. In fact, we looked at over 700 use cases across 19 industries in order to unpack the value that cloud contributed to those use cases. And so getting down to that level of specificity really, I think helps build it from the bottom up and then using cloud measures or KPIs that indicate the value like how much faster you can deploy, how much faster you can develop. So these are things that help to kind of inform the overall model. >> Yeah. Again, having done hundreds, if not thousands of these types of things, when you start talking to people the patterns emerge, I want to ask you there's an exhibit tool in here, which is right on those use cases, retail, healthcare, high-tech oil and gas banking, and a lot of examples. And I went through them all and virtually every single one of them from a value contribution standpoint the unlocking value came down to data large data sets, document analysis, converting sentiment analysis, analytics. I mean, it really does come down to the data. And I wonder if you could comment on that and why is it that cloud is enabled that? >> Well, it goes back to scale. And I think the word that I would use would be data gravity because we're talking about massive amounts of data. So as you go through those kind of three dimensions in terms of rejuvenation one of the things you can do as you optimize and clarify and build better resiliency the thing that comes into play I think is to have clean data and data that's available in multiple places that you can create an underlying platform in order to leverage the services, the capabilities around, building out that structure. >> And then if I may, so you had this again I want to stress as EBITDA. It's not a revenue and it's the EBITDA potential as a result of leveraging cloud. And you listed a number of industries. And I wonder if you could comment on the patterns that you saw. I mean, it doesn't seem to be as simple as Negroponte bits versus Adam's in terms of your ability to unlock value. What are the patterns that you saw there and why are the ones that have so much potential why are they at the top of the list? >> Well, I mean, they're ranked based on impact. So the five greatest industries and again, aligned by the fortune 500. So it's interesting when you start to unpack it that way high-tech oil, gas, retail, healthcare, insurance and banking, right? Top. And so we did look at the different solutions that were in that, tried to decipher what was fully unlocked by cloud, what was accelerated by cloud and what was perhaps in this timeframe remaining on premise. And so we kind of step by step, expert by expert, use case by use case deciphered of the 700, how that applied. >> So how should practitioners within organizations business but how should they use this data? What would you recommend, in terms of how they think about it, how they apply it to their business, how they communicate? >> Well, I think clearly what came out was a set of best practices for what organizations that were leveraging cloud and getting the kind of business return, three things stood out, execution, experience and excellence. And so for under execution it's not just the transaction, you're not just buying cloud you're changing their operating model. And so if the organization isn't kind of retooling the model, the processes, the workflows in order to support creating the roles then they aren't going to be able, they aren't going to be successful. In terms of experience, that's all about hands-on. And so you have to dive in, you have to start you have to apply yourself, you have to gain that applied knowledge. And so if you're not gaining that experience, you're not going to move forward. And then in terms of excellence, and it was mentioned earlier by Jeff re-skilling, up-skilling, if you're not committed to your workforce and pushing certification, pushing training in order to really evolve your workforce or your ways of working you're not going to leverage cloud. So those three best practices really came up on top in terms of what a mature cloud adopter looks like. >> That's awesome. Michael, thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it. Last question I have for you as we wrap up this trillion dollar segment upon intended is the cloud mindset. You mentioned partnering and scaling up. The role of the enterprise and business is to partner with the technologists, not just the technologies but the companies talk about this cloud native mindset because it's not just lift and shift and run apps. And I have an IT optimization issue. It's about innovating next gen solutions and you're seeing it in public sector. You're seeing it in the commercial sector, all areas where the relationship with partners and companies and startups in particular, this is the startup showcase. These are startups are more relevant than ever as the tide is shifting to a new generation of companies. >> Yeah, so a lot of think about an engine. A lot of things have to work in order to produce the kind of results that we're talking about. Brad, you're more than fair share or unfair share of trillion dollars. And so CEOs need to lead this in bold fashion. Number one, they need to craft the moonshot or the Marshot. They have to set that goal, that aspiration. And it has to be a stretch goal for the organization because cloud is the only way to enable that achievement of that aspiration that's number one, number two, they really need a hardheaded economic case. It has to be defined in terms of what the expectation is going to be. So it's not loose. It's very, very well and defined. And in some respects time box what can we do here? I would say the cloud data, your organization has to move in an agile fashion training DevOps, and the fourth thing, and this is where the startups come in is the cloud platform. There has to be an underlying platform that supports those aspirations. It's an art, it's not just an architecture. It's a living, breathing live service with integrations, with standardization, with self service that enables this whole program. >> Awesome, Michael, thank you for coming on and sharing the McKinsey perspective. The report, the clouds trillion dollar prize is up for grabs. Everyone who's registered for this event will get a copy. We will appreciate it's also on the website. We'll make sure everyone gets a copy. Thanks for coming, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thanks, Michael. >> Okay, Dave, big discussion there. Trillion dollar baby. That's the cloud. That's Jassy. Now he's going to be the CEO of AWS. They have a new CEO they announced. So that's going to be good for Amazon's kind of got clarity on the succession to Jassy, trusted soldier. The ecosystem is big for Amazon. Unlike Microsoft, they have the different view, right? They have some apps, but they're cultivating as many startups and enterprises as possible in the cloud. And no better reason to change gears here and get a venture capitalist in here. And a friend of theCUBE, Jerry Chen let's bring them up on stage. Jerry Chen, great to see you partner at Greylock making all the big investments. Good to see you >> John hey, Dave it's great to be here with you guys. Happy marks.Can you see that? >> Hey Jerry, good to see you man >> So Jerry, our first inaugural AWS startup showcase we'll be doing these quarterly and we're going to be featuring the best of the best, you're investing in all the hot startups. We've been tracking your careers from the beginning. You're a good friend of theCUBE. Always got great commentary. Why are startups more important than ever before? Because in the old days we've talked about theCUBE before startups had to go through certain certifications and you've got tire kicking, you got to go through IT. It's like going through security at the airport, take your shoes off, put your belt on thing. I mean, all kinds of things now different. The world has changed. What's your take? >> I think startups have always been a great way for experimentation, right? It's either new technologies, new business models, new markets they can move faster, the experiment, and a lot of startups don't work, unfortunately, but a lot of them turned to be multi-billion dollar companies. I thing startup is more important because as we come out COVID and economy is recovery is a great way for individuals, engineers, for companies for different markets to try different things out. And I think startups are running multiple experiments at the same time across the globe trying to figure how to do things better, faster, cheaper. >> And McKinsey points out this use case of rejuvenate, which is essentially retool pivot essentially get your costs down or and the next innovation here where there's Tam there's trillion dollars on unlock value and where the bulk of it is is the innovation, the new use cases and existing new use cases. This is where the enterprises really have an opportunity. Could you share your thoughts as you invest in the startups to attack these new waves these new areas where it may not look the same as before, what's your assessment of this kind of innovation, these new use cases? >> I think we talked last time about kind of changing the COVID the past year and there's been acceleration of things like how we work, education, medicine all these things are going online. So I think that's very clear. The first wave of innovation is like, hey things we didn't think we could be possible, like working remotely, e-commerce everywhere, telemedicine, tele-education, that's happening. I think the second order of fact now is okay as enterprises realize that this is the new reality everything is digital, everything is in the cloud and everything's going to be more kind of electronic relation with the customers. I think that we're rethinking what does it mean to be a business? What does it mean to be a bank? What does it mean to be a car company or an energy company? What does it mean to be a retailer? Right? So I think the rethinking that brands are now global, brands are all online. And they now have relationships with the customers directly. So I think if you are a business now, you have to re experiment or rethink about your business model. If you thought you were a Nike selling shoes to the retailers, like half of Nike's revenue is now digital right all online. So instead of selling sneakers through stores they're now a direct to consumer brand. And so I think every business is going to rethink about what the AR. Airbnb is like are they in the travel business or the experience business, right? Airlines, what business are they in? >> Yeah, theCUBE we're direct to consumer virtual totally opened up our business model. Dave, the cloud premise is interesting now. I mean, let's reset this where we are, right? Andy Jassy always talks about the old guard, new guard. Okay we've been there done that, even though they still have a lot of Oracle inside AWS which we were joking the other day, but this new modern era coming out of COVID Jerry brings this up. These startups are going to be relevant take territory down in the enterprises as new things develop. What's your premise of the cloud and AWS prospect? >> Well, so Jerry, I want to to ask you. >> Jerry: Yeah. >> The other night, last Thursday, I think we were in Clubhouse. Ben Horowitz was on and Martine Casado was laying out this sort of premise about cloud startups saying basically at some point they're going to have to repatriate because of the Amazon VIG. I mean, I'm paraphrasing and I guess the premise was that there's this variable cost that grows as you scale but I kind of shook my head and I went back. You saw, I put it out on Twitter a clip that we had the a couple of years ago and I don't think, I certainly didn't see it that way. Maybe I'm getting it wrong but what's your take on that? I just don't see a snowflake ever saying, okay we're going to go build our own data center or we're going to repatriate 'cause they're going to end up like service now and have this high cost infrastructure. What do you think? >> Yeah, look, I think Martin is an old friend from VMware and he's brilliant. He has placed a lot of insights. There is some insights around, at some point a scale, use of startup can probably run things more cost-effectively in your own data center, right? But I think that's fewer companies more the vast majority, right? At some point, but number two, to your point, Dave going on premise versus your own data center are two different things. So on premise in a customer's environment versus your own data center are two different worlds. So at some point some scale, a lot of the large SaaS companies run their own data centers that makes sense, Facebook and Google they're at scale, they run their own data centers, going on premise or customer's environment like a fortune 100 bank or something like that. That's a different story. There are reasons to do that around compliance or data gravity, Dave, but Amazon's costs, I don't think is a legitimate reason. Like if price is an issue that could be solved much faster than architectural decisions or tech stacks, right? Once you're on the cloud I think the thesis, the conversation we had like a year ago was the way you build apps are very different in the cloud and the way built apps on premise, right? You have assume storage, networking and compute elasticity that's independent each other. You don't really get that in a customer's data center or their own environment even with all the new technologies. So you can't really go from cloud back to on-premise because the way you build your apps look very, very different. So I would say for sure at some scale run your own data center that's why the hyperscale guys do that. On-premise for customers, data gravity, compliance governance, great reasons to go on premise but for vast majority of startups and vast majority of customers, the network effects you get for being in the cloud, the network effects you get from having everything in this alas cloud service I think outweighs any of the costs. >> I couldn't agree more and that's where the data is, at the way I look at it is your technology spend is going to be some percentage of revenue and it's going to be generally flat over time and you're going to have to manage it whether it's in the cloud or it's on prem John. >> Yeah, we had a quote on theCUBE on the conscious that had Jerry I want to get your reaction to this. The executive said, if you don't have an AI strategy built into your value proposition you will be shorted as a stock on wall street. And I even went further. So you'll probably be delisted cause you won't be performing with a tongue in cheek comment. But the reality is that that's indicating that everyone has to have AI in their thing. Mainly as a reality, what's your take on that? I know you've got a lot of investments in this area as AI becomes beyond fashion and becomes table stakes. Where are we on that spectrum? And how does that impact business and society as that becomes a key part of the stack and application stack? >> Yeah, I think John you've seen AI machine learning turn out to be some kind of novelty thing that a bunch of CS professors working on years ago to a funnel piece of every application. So I would say the statement of the sentiment's directionally correct that 20 years ago if you didn't have a web strategy or a website as a company, your company be sure it, right? If you didn't have kind of a internet website, you weren't real company. Likewise, if you don't use AI now to power your applications or machine learning in some form or fashion for sure you'd be at a competitive disadvantage to everyone else. And just like if you're not using software intelligently or the cloud intelligently your stock as a company is going to underperform the rest of the market. And the cloud guys on the startups that we're backing are making AI so accessible and so easy for developers today that it's really easy to use some level of machine learning, any applications, if you're not doing that it's like not having a website in 1999. >> Yeah. So let's get into that whole operation side. So what would you be your advice to the enterprises that are watching and people who are making decisions on architecture and how they roll out their business model or value proposition? How should they look at AI and operations? I mean big theme is day two operations. You've got IT service management, all these things are being disrupted. What's the operational impact to this? What's your view on that? >> So I think two things, one thing that you and Dave both talked about operation is the key, I mean, operations is not just the guts of the business but the actual people running the business, right? And so we forget that one of the values are going to cloud, one of the values of giving these services is you not only have a different technology stack, all the bits, you have a different human stack meaning the people running your cloud, running your data center are now effectively outsource to Amazon, Google or Azure, right? Which I think a big part of the Amazon VIG as Dave said, is so eloquently on Twitter per se, right? You're really paying for those folks like carry pagers. Now take that to the next level. Operations is human beings, people intelligently trying to figure out how my business can run better, right? And that's either accelerate revenue or decrease costs, improve my margin. So if you want to use machine learning, I would say there's two areas to think about. One is how I think about customers, right? So we both talked about the amount of data being generated around enterprise individuals. So intelligently use machine learning how to serve my customers better, then number two AI and machine learning internally how to run my business better, right? Can I take cost out? Can I optimize supply chain? Can I use my warehouses more efficiently my logistics more efficiently? So one is how do I use AI learning to be a more familiar more customer oriented and number two, how can I take cost out be more efficient as a company, by writing AI internally from finance ops, et cetera. >> So, Jerry, I wonder if I could ask you a little different subject but a question on tactical valuations how coupled or decoupled are private company valuations from the public markets. You're seeing the public markets everybody's freaking out 'cause interest rates are going to go up. So the future value of cash flows are lower. Does that trickle in quickly into the private markets? Or is it a whole different dynamic? >> If I could weigh in poly for some private markets Dave I would have a different job than I do today. I think the reality is in the long run it doesn't matter as much as long as you're investing early. Now that's an easy answer say, boats have to fall away. Yes, interest rates will probably go up because they're hard to go lower, right? They're effectively almost zero to negative right now in most of the developed world, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to trade my Twilio shares or Salesforce shares for like a 1% yield bond, right? I'm going to hold the high growth tech stocks because regardless of what interest rates you're giving me 1%, 2%, 3%, I'm still going to beat that with a top tech performers, Snowflake, Twilio Hashi Corp, bunch of the private companies out there I think are elastic. They're going to have a great 10, 15 year run. And in the Greylock portfolio like the things we're investing in, I'm super bullish on from Roxanne to Kronos fear, to true era in the AI space. I think in the long run, next 10 years these things will outperform the market that said, right valuation prices have gone up and down and they will in our careers, they have. In the careers we've been covering tech. So I do believe that they're high now they'll come down for sure. Will they go back up again? Definitely, right? But as long as you're betting these macro waves I think we're all be good. >> Great answer as usual. Would you trade them for NFTs Jerry? >> That $69 million people piece of artwork look, I mean, I'm a longterm believer in kind of IP and property rights in the blockchain, right? And I'm waiting for theCUBE to mint this video as the NFT, when we do this guys, we'll mint this video's NFT and see how much people pay for the original Dave, John, Jerry (mumbles). >> Hey, you know what? We can probably get some good bang for that. Hey it's all about this next Jerry. Jerry, great to have you on, final question as we got this one minute left what's your advice to the people out there that either engaging with these innovative startups, we're going to feature startups every quarter from the in the Amazon ecosystem, they are going to be adding value. What's the advice to the enterprises that are engaging startups, the approach, posture, what's your advice. >> Yeah, when I talk to CIOs and large enterprises, they often are wary like, hey, when do I engage a startup? How, what businesses, and is it risky or low risk? Now I say, just like any career managing, just like any investment you're making in a big, small company you should have a budget or set of projects. And then I want to say to a CIO, Hey, every priority on your wish list, go use the startup, right? I mean, that would be 10 for 10 projects, 10 startups. Probably too much risk for a lot of tech companies. But we would say to most CIOs and executives, look, there are strategic initiatives in your business that you want to accelerate. And I would take the time to invest in one or two startups each quarter selectively, right? Use the time, focus on fewer startups, go deep with them because we can actually be game changers in terms of inflecting your business. And what I mean by that is don't pick too many startups because you can't devote the time, but don't pick zero startups because you're going to be left behind, right? It'd be shorted as a stock by the John, Dave and Jerry hedge fund apparently but pick a handful of startups in your strategic areas, in your top tier three things. These really, these could be accelerators for your career. >> I have to ask you real quick while you're here. We've got a couple minutes left on startups that are building apps. I've seen DevOps and the infrastructure as code movement has gone full mainstream. That's really what we're living right now. That kind of first-generation commercialization of DevOps. Now DevSecOps, what are the trends that you've seen that's different from say a couple of years ago now that we're in COVID around how apps are being built? Is it security? Is it the data integration? What can you share as a key app stack impact (mumbles)? >> Yeah, I think there're two things one is security is always been a top priority. I think that was the only going forward period, right? Security for sure. That's why you said that DevOps, DevSecOps like security is often overlooked but I think increasingly could be more important. The second thing is I think we talked about Dave mentioned earlier just the data around customers, the data on premise or the cloud, and there's a ton of data out there. We keep saying this over and over again like data's new oil, et cetera. It's evolving and not changing because the way we're using data finding data is changing in terms of sources of data we're using and discovering and also speed of data, right? In terms of going from Basser real-time is changing. The speed of business has changed to go faster. So I think these are all things that we're thinking about. So both security and how you use your data faster and better. >> Yeah you were in theCUBE a number of years ago and I remember either John or I asked you about you think Amazon is going to go up the stack and start developing applications and your answer was you know what I think no, I think they're going to enable a new set of disruptors to come in and disrupt the SaaS world. And I think that's largely playing out. And one of the interesting things about Adam Selipsky appointment to the CEO, he comes from Tableau. He really helped Tableau go from that sort of old guard model to an ARR model obviously executed a great exit to Salesforce. And now I see companies like Salesforce and service now and Workday is potential for your scenario to really play out. They've got in my view anyway, outdated pricing models. You look at what's how Snowflake's pricing and the consumption basis, same with Datadog same with Stripe and new startups seem to really be a leading into the consumption-based pricing model. So how do you, what are your thoughts on that? And maybe thoughts on Adam and thoughts on SaaS disruption? >> I think my thesis still holds that. I don't think Selipsky Adam is going to go into the app space aggressively. I think Amazon wants to enable next generation apps and seeing some of the new service that they're doing is they're kind of deconstructing apps, right? They're deconstructing the parts of CRM or e-commerce and they're offering them as services. So I think you're going to see Amazon continue to say, hey we're the core parts of an app like payments or custom prediction or some machine learning things around applications you want to buy bacon, they're going to turn those things to the API and sell those services, right? So you look at things like Stripe, Twilio which are two of the biggest companies out there. They're not apps themselves, they're the components of the app, right? Either e-commerce or messaging communications. So I can see Amazon going down that path. I think Adam is a great choice, right? He was a longterm early AWS exact from the early days latent to your point Dave really helped take Tableau into kind of a cloud business acquired by Salesforce work there for a few years under Benioff the guy who created quote unquote cloud and now him coming home again and back to Amazon. So I think it'll be exciting to see how Adam runs the business. >> And John I think he's the perfect choice because he's got operations chops and he knows how to... He can help the startups disrupt. >> Yeah, and he's been a trusted soldier of Jassy from the beginning, he knows the DNA. He's got some CEO outside experience. I think that was the key he knows. And he's not going to give up Amazon speed, but this is baby, right? So he's got him in charge and he's a trusted lieutenant. >> You think. Yeah, you think he's going to hold the mic? >> Yeah. We got to go. Jerry Chen thank you very much for coming on. Really appreciate it. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on our inaugural cube on cloud AWS startup event. Now for the 10 startups, enjoy the sessions at 12:30 Pacific, we're going to have the closing keynote. I'm John Ferry for Dave Vellante and our special guests, thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of the day and the 10 startups. (upbeat music)