>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by Silicon Angle. Hi, this is David Linton. You're watching the Cubes coverage of the Cube on Cloud, our own virtual event where we're trying to understand the future of cloud, where we've come from and where we're going. And we're bringing in visionaries to really have that detailed conversation. Daniel Jones is here. He's the CEO of automation specialist. You. I path Daniel. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insights here. >>Thank you so much for inviting me. They've appreciated. >>That's always a pleasure to get together with folks that have started companies with a seed of a vision and have exploded in tow. You know, great success. And when I wanna go back to the the the founding days of you, I path 2005. It was a pre cloud. There's certainly pre cloud as we know it today. A w s came out in 2006. Aw, and then we saw the clouds Ascendancy. But but your original founding premise there was no cloud, you know, it wasn't like a startup could just spend up stuff in the cloud. But what you've seen that evolution. So when you first started to see cloud evolved, What did you think? Did you think Oh, well, we'll see what happens. Or did you? Did you know at the time that this was gonna be a bigas? It actually has become. What were your thoughts back then? >>Well, I honestly, I thought that we are kind of agent. And maybe it's stupid to not to pie foot in tow, The new trends in technology like Cloud Mobile social and I we kept, you know, working on this computer vision technology that 15 years ago, war was not really hot. But with the evolution of self driving cars and the latest development in AI, we we've been able to capture our investments in the domain that was not hot. But suddenly, you know, became the word the of the greatest minds in I t. And we definitely we specialize Our computer vision toe a narrow use case, but still, it's the It's the key of what we've done in, uh, in the end, the robots are powered by computer vision technology. This kind of a robot emulate how human user work. So obviously we use vision a lot in our day by day work and having the best technology that allows our robots to interact with the computer screen more like human user is quintessential and, uh, making our business reliable and easy to use. So we were lucky. But I always felt that maybe I should change it. And we were feeling I remember you know, many discussions with my, you know, initial developers because we like what you're doing. What we felt a bit left outside my door. What way? Got lucky in the end. >>So So I have a premise here and that when you go back to the early days of cloud, what they got right was they were attacking the human labor problem and they automate it was storage. It was it was networking. It was compute. But really the automation that they brought toe i t. And the quality that that drove and the flexibility was, you know, a game changer. Of course, we know that now. And you know, many of us at the time were very excited about Cloud. I'm not sure we predicted the impact that it had, but my premise is that there's a parallel in your business with the automation that you're driving into the business. We've talked toe people, for instance, that some of your customers have said, You know I can't do Six Sigma. I can't afford to do six Sigma before things like R P. A. For business process. I do that for Mission critical things, but now I can apply six Sigma thinking across my entire business that drives quality. It takes costs out of my business. So what do you think about that premise? That there's a parallel between the early days of cloud taking human labor out of the equation and driving quality and flexibility, cost saving speed and revenue, etcetera and what you're doing on the business side, >>it is clearly a parallel. I can tell that the cloud was built by looking at ICTY Automation use cases first of all, because this is all software engineers understand the most software engineers. Let's be you little on this. They don't understand the business work. They don't understand all how the rial work is performing a big enterprise and they don't care. Sometimes when in my own discussions with our CFO, he is surprised that I don't know all the use cases in the world. Yes, of course. I don't know exactly how an insurance company work All the processes in a health care, all the banking processes. I have intellectual curiosity how they were. But what interests me the most is our computer vision technology that works uniformly well across different. That was the same from the cloud. So initially they built and they build a cow cloud one toe, help them when what they know the best. And now, for we were put in the face of having great technology, this computer region technology, but without having a great use case in the I t world that we understood. And when we when I'm speaking about our early days like 12, 13, 14, I believe this technology has a lot less applicable bility in the real world. Because again, we were thinking of some sorts of small I T automation gigs that were not possible just doing the AP ice. But when I discovered the messy world of business processes and how important is to emulate people when you think automation, that was a big ah ha moment. So I believe that we can do for business processes what the cloud has done for I t processes on. We are really patient now about this business processes on helping people toe eliminate all the repetitive work that is their delegate. This work two robots and have the people that are required to do this work do do better. A smaller number of tasks every day. Everyone has own, as on her or him played today like, let's say, 10, 20 different activities. Some of them can be completely delegated to rob to robots, and they are the low value type of activities, while they can focus on the high value activities like interaction with people, creativity, decision making and this type of human like things that we as humans really love. >>I love that you shared that story, but you thought it was a very narrow, sort of set of use cases when you first started and then, you know, that's that's just an awesome founders, you know, really ization. I love it when we've often said in the Cube that, you know, for decades we've marched to the tune of Moore's Law. That was the innovation engine. No longer is that case. It's a combination of of data, applied machine intelligence and cloud for scale. And I guess the computer vision pieces How you in just the data you've you've made some investments in a I and there's many more to come the industry in general and the cloud is sort of the piece of that equation that we see for scale. So I wonder how you see those pieces fitting to your business. Uh, and how important is the cloud for your scale? At last? Uh, at last year, I path forward. There was a lot of talk amongst your customers about scaling. Is the cloud critical for that scale? >>Yeah, I believe so. And we are thinking of clouds in tow. Distinct ways number one. We're offering Onda manage automation service in our own close, using where we host everything by ourselves, including our orchestrator, and then be next to have the plans to include our the robots that execute the automation And people simply can't connect to our cloud building automation and just scheduled to run without any maintainers. And they will have access to oh, great analytics, Everything integrated. So this is a major force to us, and the way we launching G a. This cloud offering in April this year, and I can tell you that until now, 20% of our customers already are in a shape or another in this type of offering, not 20% dollar amount, but 20% of our customers. And it's clear that at this point this has mawr applicability into the long tail, a smaller customers than in the on our biggest customers. But the second, this thing type of cloud offering that we focus on is toe have best in class support and best in class multi cloud support for the cloud of choice of our customers. For instance, if you go in if you go in a w, g, c, p usher and you buy a subscription there, you wear buildings. Specialized editions were with one click. You will be able to install our technology in those clouds and you'll be ableto scale up and down your robots. You can connect your robots to our many service were within your tenant, but basically the angle is toe lesson. Ah lot the administration, the maintainers footprint of your installation, either on our own cloud, even on your cloud of choice. I'm a strong believer that we will see an accelerated transition from the completely on Prem Workloads into these two source of cloud workloads. >>I wanna ask you, is a a technologist if you see. So you mentioned that you're gonna take your products and your support. Multiple clouds will run on any cloud in A lot of companies are talking about that, you know, for their respective whether it's a database or, you know, whatever storage device, etcetera. Do you see the day where you'll actually start? You're collaborating across clouds. Where the user, uh, maybe maybe the user today doesn't know, but maybe a developer does know which cloud it's running on. But do you see any value in actual, you know, connecting across clouds where the data and one cloud is relevant for the data? Another cloud is I know there are latent see issues. Is that you know, technically feasible. And is it it? Will it drive business value? What do you think about that cross cloud connection? >>I believe it is already happening. There is a mesh between between various services and who knows in which cloud they are awful. Already. I feel the Leighton see is less and less of a problem as much as the biggest cloud provider have have a very distributed geographically president. So as long as I can playing AWS in East Coast, on on Asia in East Coast, it's not such a big Leighton see issue. Uh huh. Frankly, in the past, our customers at least start telling us they seen how it is to be completely looking toe one technology on people would like Toa have optionality. It's not necessarily that I will use three clothes, but I would like to use the vendor that gives me optionally even. And this is what we're trying to offer. >>Do you, when you think about the future of work? I mean, e said before the cloud one dato was infrastructure storage, networking, computing Uh, it seems like to Dato we're bringing in more ai new workloads. We're seeing, you know, analytics and machine intelligence applied to the data and then, you know, distributed at scale self serve to the business. How do you see the future of work specifically as it relates toe automation affecting that, uh on you know what role does cloud play there? What's your vision? >>So as the workloads will move to cloud. It's absolutely critical that the processes will move to cloud, so there is no way back. I think, that moving in tow, moving from home for and software into cloud will make even easier toe automate this type of workloads into the cloud. It's gonna be less maintain us. You will deal less with legacy applications that require some special care. It's kind of a bit more easier to automate modern Onley, Web based type of application so that Z we'll see an acceleration on the moving to cloud. But again, there will be different sorts of cloud from a completely manage automation service from us toe managing yourself the automation in your cloud tenant, but not on prayer. I'm not a big believer that we will accept unless very few critical sectors I don't think that we will see home Primor roads in the past five years. >>I mean, I agree in this case, the business case for on Prem just gets, you know, less and less. I mean, it'll be a certain applications for sure. My last question is, when thinking about from a software developer standpoint, you obviously you're gonna wanna run in a W S and G, C P and Azure. Uh, perhaps Alibaba, Uh, do you look at other clouds? Whether their regional clouds, of course. You got your own cloud. Maybe Oracle. IBM. How do you think about those? Do you just sort of evaluated on a case by case basis? You let customers, you know, tell you where you need to be. >>Yeah, way focus on the on the three big clouds today, but we're building on the top off Q Burnett is most of our way. We have a big shift in tow building que Burnett is micro services. And my guess is that all mother clouds would offer fantastic support for kubernetes. So what What it takes when you create a new edition for another cloud is toe is toe have the underlying services. Like if we plan to use snowflake, for instance in our analytics offering, you better have snowflake in another cloud. Otherwise, probably the the analytics will will have toe be delayed or use a less of one part technology. So it's not only about what we are building, but it's also, you know, the vast availability of other set of technologies that we try toe use when you choose a technology. Now, first of all, we are looking. We need to choose something that is multi cloud. There's who's dedicated from one cloud vendor. That's that's our first priority. This is why I've mentioned snowflake and then when when we moved into a cloud. We are limited by the offerings that are there, but I my belief is in the main clouds, probably in the US I don't know one of the region's what's gonna happen, but in the main crowds in the U. S. In I believe that they will. In the end, they will catch up in terms off offering and convincing of other defenders toe have kind of kind of similar offering on their own. I don't know if, besides, the Big Three, or you'll see someone and that is able to compete could be too much fragmented. Maybe they will be dedicated clouds for certain services. But for General Cloud, I think three is more than enough. >>Yeah, and so, you know, in the early days of cloud, people talked about dial tone, and essentially, that's what's becoming. It's the it's the value that's running on top of the cloud from software companies like ey Path and others that is really driving. So the cloud to Dato the next generation Daniel Dennett is thanks so much for sharing your vision on participating in the Cuban cloud. Really appreciate it. >>My pleasure, Dave. Thank you so much for inviting. >>You're welcome. You always great to talk to you. And thank you for watching everybody keep it right there. We'll be back with our next guest right into this short break. This is Dave Volonte for the Cube. Yeah.

>>welcome to the session. Long live swarm with containers and kubernetes everywhere we have this increasing cloud complexity at the same time that we're facing economic uncertainty and, of course, to navigate this. For most companies, it's a matter of focusing on speed and on shipping and iterating their code faster. Now. For many, Marantz is customers. That means using docker swarm rather than kubernetes to handle container orchestration. We really believe that the best way to increase your speed to production is choice, simplicity and security. So we wanted to bring you a couple of experts to talk about the state of swarm and Docker enterprise and how you can make best use of both of you. So let's get to it. Well, good afternoon or good morning, depending on where you are on and welcome to today's session. Long live swarm. I am Nick Chase. I'm head of content here at Mantis and I would like to introduce you to our two Panelists today eight of Manzini. Why don't you introduce yourself? >>I am a van CNI. I'm a solutions architect here at Moran Tous on work primarily with Docker Enterprise System. I have a long history of working with support team. Um, at what used to be Ah Docker Enterprise, part of Docker Inc. >>Yeah, Okay. Great. And Don Power. >>I, um Yeah, I'm Don Power on the docker. Captain Docker, community leader. Right now I run our Dev Ops team for Citizens Bank out of Nashville, Tennessee, and happy to be here. >>All right, Excellent. So All right, so thank you both for coming. Now, before we say anything else, I want to go ahead and kind of name the elephant in the room. There's been a lot of talk about the >>future. Yeah, that's right. Um, swarm as it stands right now, um, we have, ah, very vested interest in keeping our customers on who want to continue using swarm, functional and keeping swarm a viable alternative or complement to kubernetes. However you see the orchestration war playing out as it were. >>Okay? It's hardly a war at this point, but they do work together, and so that's >>absolutely Yeah, I I definitely consider them more of like, complimentary services, um, using the right tool for the job. Sort of sense. They both have different design goals when they were originally created and set out so I definitely don't see it as a completely one or the other kind of decision and that they could both be used in the same environment and similar clusters to run whatever workload that you have. >>Excellent. And we'll get into the details of all that as we go along. So that's terrific. So I have not really been involved in in the sort of swarm area. So set the stage for us where we kind of start out with all of this. Don I know that you were involved and so guys said, set the stage for us. >>Sure, Um I mean so I've been a heavy user of swarm in my past few roles. Professionally, we've been running containers in production with Swarm for coming up on about four years. Now, Um, in our case, we you know, we looked at what was available at the time, and of course you had. Kubernetes is your biggest contender out there, but like I just mentioned, the one of the things that really led us to swarm is it's design goals were very different than kubernetes. So Kubernetes tries to have an answer for absolutely every scenario where swarm tries to have an answer for, like, the 80% of problems or challenges will say that you might come across 80% of the workloads. Um, I had a better way of saying that, but I think I got my point across >>E Yeah, I think I think you hit the nail on the head. Um, Kubernetes in particular with the way that kubernetes itself is an a P I I believe that kubernetes was, um, you know, written as a toolkit. It wasn't really intended to be used by end users directly. It was really a way to build platforms that run containers. And because it's this really, really extensible ap I you can extend it to manage all sorts of resource is swarm doesn't have that X sensibility aspect, but what it was designed to do, it does very, very well and very easily in a very, very simple sort of way. Um, it's highly opinionated about the way that you should use the product, but it works very effectively. It's very easy to use. It's very low. Um, not low effort, but low. Ah, low barrier to entry. >>Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I was gonna touch on the same thing. It's very easy for someone to come in. Pick up swarm. You know they don't They don't have to know anything about the orchestrator on day one. Most people that are getting into this space are very familiar with Docker. Compose um, and entering from Docker compose into swarm is changing one command that you would run on the command line. >>Yeah, very, very trivial to if you are already used to building docker files using composed, organize your deployment into stacks of related components. It's trivial to turn on swarm mode and then deploy your container set to a cluster. >>Well, excellent. So answer this question for me. Is the swarm of today the same as the swarm of, you know, the original swarm. So, like when swim first started is that the same is what we have now >>it's kind of ah, complicated story with the storm project because it's changed names and forms a few times. Originally in is really somewhere around 2014 in the first version, and it was a component that you really had to configure and set up separately from Docker Ah, the way that it was structured. Ah, you would just have docker installed on a number of servers are machines in your cluster. And then you would organize them into a swarm by bringing your own database and some of the tooling to get those nodes talking to each other and to organize your containers across all of your docker engines. Ah, few years later, the swarm project was retooled and baked into the docker engine. And, um, this is where we sort of get the name change from. So originally it was a feature that we called swarm. Ah. Then the Swarm Kit project was released on Get Hub and baked directly into the engine, where they renamed it as swarm mode. Because now it is a motile option that you just turn on as a button in the docker engine and because it's already there the, um, the tuning knobs that you haven't swarm kit with regard to how what my time outs are and some of these other sort of performance settings there locked there, they're there. It's part of the opinionated set of components that builds up the docker engine is that we bring in the Swarm Kit project with a certain set of defaults and settings. And that is how it operates in today's version of Docker engine. >>Uh, okay for that, that makes sense. That makes sense. So ah, so don, I know you have pretty strong feelings about this topic, but it is swarm still viable in a world that's sort of increasingly dominated by Kubernetes. >>Absolutely. And you were right. I'm very passionate about this topic where I work. We're we're doing almost all of our production work lives on swarm we only have out of Ah, we've got something like 600 different services between three and 4000 containers. At any given point in time. Out of all of those projects, all of those services we've only run into two or three that don't kind of fit into the opinionated model of swarm. So we are running those on KUBERNETES in the same cluster using Moranis is Docker enterprise offering. But, um, no, that's a very, very small percentage of services that we didn't have an answer for in swarm with one. The one case that really gets us just about every time is scaling state full services. But you're gonna have very few staple services in most environments for things like micro service architecture, which is predominantly what we build out. Swarm is perfect. It's simple. It's easy to use you, don't you? Don't end up going for miles of yamma files trying to figure out the one setting that you didn't get exactly right? Um yeah, the other Thea the other big piece of it that way really led us to adopting it so heavily in the beginning is, you know, the overlay network. So your networks don't have to span the whole cluster like they do with kubernetes. So we could we could set up a network isolation between service A and service B, just by use using the built in overlay networks. That was a huge component that, like I said, let us Teoh adopting it so heavily when we first got started. >>Excellent. You look like you're about to say something in a >>Yeah, I think that speaks to the design goals for each piece of software. On the way that I've heard this described before is with regard to the networking piece the ah, the docker networking under the hood, um, feels like it was written by a network engineer. The way that the docker engine overlay networks communicate uses ah, VX lan under the hood, which creates pseudo V lands for your containers. And if two containers aren't on the same Dylan, there's no way they can communicate with each other as opposed to the design of kubernetes networking, which is really left to the C and I implementation but still has the design philosophy of one big, flat sub net where every I p could reach every other i p and you control what is allowed to access, what by policy. So it's more of an application focused Ah design. Whereas in Docker swarm on the overlay networking side, it's really of a network engineering sort of focus. Right? >>Okay, got it. Well, so now how does all this fit in with Docker enterprise now? So I understand there's been some changes on how swarm is handled within Docker Enterprise. Coming with this new release, >>Docker s O swarm Inside Docker Enterprise is represented as both the swarm classic legacy system that we shift way back in 2014 on and then also the swarm mode that is curly used in the docker engine. Um, the Swarm Classic back end gives us legacy support for being able to run unmanaged plane containers onto a cluster. If you were to take Docker ce right now, you would find that you wouldn't be able to just do a very basic docker run against a whole cluster of machines. You can create services using the swarms services, a p I but, um, that that legacy plane container support is something that you have to set up external swarm in order to provide. So right now, the architecture of Docker Enterprise UCP is based on some of that legacy code from about five or six years ago. Okay. Ah, that gives us ability to deploy plane containers for use cases that require it as well as swarm services for those kinds of workloads that might be better served by the built in load balancing and h A and scaling features that swarm provides. >>Okay, so now I know that at one point kubernetes was deployed within Docker Enterprise as you create a swarm cluster and then deploy kubernetes on top of swarm. >>Correct? That is how the current architecture works. >>Okay. All right. And then, um what is what is where we're going with this like, Are we supposed to? Are we going to running Swarm on top of kubernetes? What's >>the the design goals for the future of swarm within branches? Stocker Enterprise are that we will start the employing Ah, like kubernetes cluster features as the base and a swarm kit on top of kubernetes. So it is like you mentioned just a reversal of the roles. I think we're finding that, um, the ability to extend kubernetes a p I to manage resource is is valuable at an infrastructure and platform level in a way that we can't do with swarm. We still want to be able to run swarm workloads. So we're going to keep the swarm kit code the swarm kit orchestration features to run swarm services as a part of the platform to keep the >>got it. Okay, so, uh, if I'm a developer and I want to run swarm, but my company's running kubernetes what? What are my one of my options there? Well, I think >>eight touched on it pretty well already where you know, it depends on your design goals, and you know, one of the other things that's come up a few times is Thea. The level of entry for for swarm is much, much simpler than kubernetes. So I mean, it's it's kind of hard to introduce anything new. So I mean, a company, a company that's got most of their stuff in kubernetes and production is gonna have a hard time maybe looking at a swarm. I mean, this is gonna be, you know, higher, higher up, not the boots on the ground. But, um, you know, the the upper management, that's at some point, you have to pay for all their support, all of it. What we did in our approach. Because there was one team already using kubernetes. We went ahead and stood up a small cluster ah, small swarm cluster and taught the developers how to use it and how to deploy code to it. And they loved it. They thought it was super simple. A time went on, the other teams took notice and saw how fast these guys were getting getting code deployed, getting services up, getting things usable, and they would look over at what the innovation team was doing and say, Hey, I I want to do that to, uh, you know, so there's there's a bunch of different approaches. That's the approach we took and it worked out very well. It looks like you wanted to say something too. >>Yeah, I think that if you if you're if you're having to make this kind of decision, there isn't There isn't a wrong choice. Ah, it's never a swarm of its role and your organization, right? Right. If you're if you're an individual and you're using docker on your workstation on your laptop but your organization wants to standardize on kubernetes there, there are still some two rules that Mike over Ah, pose. And he's manifest if you need to deploy. Coop resource is, um if you are running Docker Enterprise Swarm kit code will still be there. And you can run swarm services as regular swarm workloads on that component. So I I don't want to I don't want people to think that they're going to be like, locked into one or the other orchestration system. Ah, there the way we want to enable developer choice so that however the developer wants to do their work, they can get it done. Um Docker desktop. Ah, ships with that kubernetes distribution bundled in it. So if you're using a Mac or Windows and that's your development, uh, system, you can run docker debt, turn on your mode and run the kubernetes bits. So you have the choices. You have the tools to deploy to either system. >>And that's one of the things that we were super excited about when they introduced Q. Burnett ease into the Docker Enterprise offering. So we were able to run both, so we didn't have to have that. I don't want to call it a battle or argument, but we didn't have to make anybody choose one or the other. We, you know, we gave them both options just by having Docker enterprise so >>excellent. So speaking of having both options, let's just say for developers who need to make a decision while should I go swarm, or should I go kubernetes when it sort of some of the things that they should think about? >>So I think that certain certain elements of, um, certain elements of containers are going to be agnostic right now. So the the the designing a docker file and building a container image, you're going to need to know that skill for either system that you choose to operate on. Ah, the swarm value. Some of the storm advantage comes in that you don't have to know anything beyond that. So you don't have to learn a whole new A p I a whole new domain specific language using Gamel to define your deployment. Um, chances are that if you've been using docker for any length of time, you probably have a whole stack of composed files that are related to things that you've worked on. And, um, again, the barrier to entry to getting those running on swarm is very low. You just turn it on docker stack, deploy, and you're good to go. So I think that if you're trying to make that choice, if you I have a use case that doesn't require you to manage new resource is if you don't need the Extensible researchers part, Ah, swarm is a great great, great viable option. >>Absolutely. Yeah, the the recommendation I've always made to people that are just getting started is start with swarm and then move into kubernetes and going through the the two of them, you're gonna figure out what fits your design principles. What fits your goals. Which one? You know which ones gonna work best for you. And there's no harm in choosing one or the other using both each one of you know, very tailor fit for very various types of use cases. And like I said, kubernetes is great at some things, but for a lot of other stuff, I still want to use swarm and vice versa. So >>on my home lab, for all my personal like services that I run in my, uh, my home network, I used storm, um, for things that I might deploy onto, you know, a bit this environment, a lot of the ones that I'm using right now are mainly tailored for kubernetes eso. I think especially some of the tools that are out there in the open source community as well as in docker Enterprise helped to bridge that gap like there's a translator that can take your compose file, turn it into kubernetes. Yeah, Mel's, um, if if you're trying to decide, like on the business side, should we standardize on former kubernetes? I think like your what? What functionality are you looking at? Out of getting out of your system? If you need things like tight integration into a ah infrastructure vendor such as AWS Azure or VM ware that might have, like plug ins for kubernetes. You're now you're getting into that area where you're managing Resource is of the infrastructure with your orchestration. AP I with kube so things like persistent volumes can talk to your storage device and carve off chunks of storage and assign those two pods if you don't have that need or that use case. Um, you know, KUBERNETES is bringing in a lot of these features that you maybe you're just not taking advantage of. Um, similarly, if you want to take advantage of things like auto scaling to scale horizontally, let's say you have a message queue system and then a number of workers, and you want to start scaling up on your workers. When your CPU hits a certain a metric. That is something that Kubernetes has built right into it. And so, if you want that, I would probably suggest that you look at kubernetes if you don't need that, or if you want to write some of that tooling yourself. Swarm doesn't have an object built into it that will do automatic horizontal scaling based on some kind of metric. So I always consider this decision as a what features are the most I available to you and your business that you need to Yep. >>All right. Excellent. Well, and, ah, fortunately, of course, they're both available on Docker Enterprise. So aren't we lucky? All right, so I am going to wrap this up. I want to thank Don Bauer Docker captain, for coming here and spending some time with us and eight of Manzini. I would like to thank you. I know that the the, uh, circumstances are less than ideal here for your recording today, but we appreciate you joining us. Um and ah, both of you. Thank you very much. And I want to invite all of you. First of all, thank you for joining us. We know your time is valuable and I want to invite you all Teoh to take a look at Docker Enterprise. Ah, follow the link that's on your screen and we'll see you in the next session. Thank you all so much. Thank you. >>Thank you, Nick.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo Live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome Back to San Diego. Everybody watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This day. One of our coverage of Sisqo Live 2019 from San Diego. I'm Dave a lot with my co host to minimum. Lisa Martin is also here. Kip Compton is the senior vice president of Cisco's Cloud Platform and Solutions, and he's joined by Fabio Gori was the senior director of Cloud Solutions Marketing. Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >> Thanks. Great to be here having us. >> You're very welcome, Fabio. So, Kip, Let's start with you. I want to start with a customer perspective. People are transforming. Cloud is part of that innovation cocktail, if you will. Absolutely. How would you summarize your customers? Cloud strategies? >> Well, I mean, in one word, I'd say Multi cloud, and it's what I've been saying for some time. Is Custer's air really expanding into the cloud and it really expanding into multiple clouds? And what's driving that is the need to take advantage of the innovation in the economics that are offered in the various clouds, and we sit like to say that they're expanding into the cloud because for the vast majority, their coast of our coasters, they have data centers. They're going to continue to have data centers. Nothing's going to keep running in those data centers now. What's happening is they thought it would be easy to start with everyone here. CEO Chuck likes to talk about, however, and thought they just moved to the cloud like moving to another neighborhood. Everything would be great. Well, when they're multiple clouds, you leaving some stuff on him. All of a sudden, what was supposed to be simple and easy becomes quite complex. >> Yeah, I've often said Well, multi club was kind of a symptom of multi vendor. But what you're saying is, essentially, it's it's becoming horses for courses, the workload matching the workload with the best cloud to solve that problem. >> I think it's a feature not above. I think it's here to stay. >> So how is that informing your strategy is Cisco? >> Well, you know, we're very customer responsive, and we see this problem and we look at how we can solve it and what customs have told us is that they want access to the different innovation in these different clouds and the different economic offers in each of these clouds. But they want to do it with less complexity, and they want to do it with less friction. And there's a bunch of areas where they're not looking for innovation. They don't need things work differently in networking. They want one way for networking to work across the multiple clouds and, frankly, to integrate with their own primus. Well. Likewise, for Security. A lot of Custer's air a little freaked out by the idea that there be different security regimes in every cloud that they use and maybe even different than what they already have on him. So they want that to be connected and to work management an application lifecycle. They're worried about that. They're like they don't want it to be different in every single cloud. A map Dynamics is a great example of an asset here. We got strong feedback for our customers that they needed to be able to measure the application performance in a common way across the environments. When imagine going to your CEO and talking about the performance of applications and having different metrics. 2,000,000,000 where it's hosted. It doesn't make any sense in terms of getting business insights. So I've dynamics is another example of something that Custer's one across all of that. So we really see Cisco's role is bringing all of those common capabilities and really reducing the complexity and friction of multi Cobb, enabling our customers to really take the most advantage possible. Multiple cloud. >> So Fabio kept talked about how moving to cloud is a little bit more complex than moving house from one neighborhood to the other. What are some of the key challenges that you guys are seeing? And how specifically is Cisco helping to ameliorate some of those challenges? >> Well, there are some challenges that are squarely in the camp where we can help. Others are related, and probably they're the toughest in clouds to fundamentally acquisition of talent. Right way can help with our custom off course with our partner ecosystem in this case, but a lot of that is really the culture of the company needs to change, right? We keep talking about develops way, keep talking about what does he mean operating this infrastructure in the cloud. It's a whole different ballgame, right? It's a continues integration, continues. Development is actually moving toe agile, kind of softer. The album models. And, you know, I very often do the analogy or what we've seen a few years ago in the data center space where we so actually, the end off the super specialization, like people on Lino in storage, all innit, working on ly computing. And then we saw the rise of people fundamentally expert in in the entire stack. We're seeing the same in the cloud with the rise of the Cloud Architect. These guys now are the ones they're behind building Cloud Centre of excellence. The issue. If you want guidance, where's the control remains into the other team's right. But this is very, very important. So it's overcoming, overcoming the talent gap and knowing how to deal with that on the bottom of that on the other side, so you get a free economy is technology challenges. For instance, embracing Q Burnett is becomes an embracing open source is a big, big challenge, right? You've gotta be able to master this kind of science if you want and trusting partners like, for instance, ourselves and others that will give you a curated versions of the softer image in life. Very often do customer meetings, and I ask how many how many tools to use in production for your Cuban Embassy plantation? And the answer ranges from 20 to 25. It's crazy, right? So imagine if 12 or three of these stools go away. What are you going to do? So you know, it's it's a whole different ball game really going to go into this kind of world. So Kip, we understand >> today, customers are multi cloud and future. It's going to be multi cloud. Think So. >> How do we make >> sure that multi cloud doesn't become least Domine, Denominator Cloud? Or, you know, you really say All I have is this combination of a bunch of pieces like the old multi vendor. How does multi cloud become more powerful than just the sum of its components? Is a good question, and we've really, I mean, way support a lot of different ways of accessing a cloud, Francisco, because we have such a broad Custer base and our goal is really to support our customers. However, they want to work. But we have made a bet in terms of avoiding the lowest common denominator on DH. Some people look ATT, accessing multiple clouds as sort of laying down one software platform and writing their software to one set of AP eyes that they didn't somehow implement in every cloud. And I think that does tend to get you to lowest common denominator because, you know, if you want to be on the Alexis Smart speaker, you have to be on the Lambda Service at a job. Yes, that's it. It doesn't exist anywhere else. And so if you're trying to create a common layer across so your clouds and that's your approach, you have to give up unique capabilities like that. And almost every consumer brand wants to be our needs to be on that election. Smart speaker. So we actually see it is more taking the functions that are not points of innovation, reducing the friction and leaving our customers with the time and energy to focus on taking advantage of their unique capabilities. And Fabio, you're partnering at Cisco with a number of their providers out there. Where are we with the maturity of all this? We were at the Cube con show and you know you're right. There's a lot of different tools. Simple is not what we're discussing, mostly out that show. So what do we solve today? And what kind of things does Cisco and its partners look to be solving kind of in the next 6 to 12 months? >> Partner? Partnering with this big players is absolutely a company priority for us, for Cisco, and one thing that's important is you, said multi vendor at the beginning. That was an interesting common, because if you think about it, multiple out is really business need, right? You want a hardness, innovation wherever it comes from. But then when you work with a specific provider in your reach, critical mass you want tohave integrations with this with this different providers, and that is the hybrid world. So hybrid is more of a technology need to streamline things like networking or security, or the way you storage because the poor things of this nature so that's three. Liza is a big need, and we'll continue, of course, adding more and more from the standpoint of partnerships every every one of the environments in our customers want to uses of interest for us, right to extend their policies to extend our reach. >> So just following up on that partnership, You guys air cloud agnostic, You don't own your own clouds, right? Not selling that. So you were at Google Cloud next to Europe on stage David Gettler, you've got a relationship with as your you got relationship with a W s. Obviously so talking about the importance of partnerships and specific strategy there in terms of your go to market, >> Well, you know, first, all the partnerships or critical I mean, it's you said we're not trying to move the workload Stark filed. And by the way, a lot of our customers has said that something that they value they see us is one of the biggest, most capable companies on the planet. That still is someone. I got sick and ableto work with them on. What's the right answer for their business? Not trying to move everything to one place and those partnerships a critical. So you're going to see us continue Teo building this partnerships. In fact, it's only day one here. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw some news this week on that. >> We were wondering if we're going to see somebody parachute in, that would be exciting. So why Cisco? Uh, ask each of you guys Maybe maybe, kid, you could You could give us the answer from your perspective and an Aussie. The same question. >> Well, from my perspective, it's based on what our customers tell us that again. You know, the things that were very good at things like networking and security are some of the biggest problems that our customs face in taking advantage of clouds and are some of things that they most want common across clouds. So we have a very natural role in this. I actually think back to the founding of Cisco, if you know the story. But it was Sandy Lerner and Limbo zakat Stanford. Their networks couldn't talk each other. You didn't remember back to the days like deck net and apple talk and all these things. It's hard to even recall because this new thing called peace pipe he obviously took over. That was the beginning of Sisko is building the multi protocol router that let those different islands talk each other. In many ways, Custer's see us doing sort of the same thing or want us to do the same thing in a multi cloud world. >> Well, just aside before I ask you, Fabian, a lot of people think that, you know, the microprocessor revolution killed many computers. IPads. Cisco kind of killed many computers to your point. But, Fabio, anything you would add to the sort of wisest >> guy would say, If you want my three seconds elevator peaches, we make multiple easier and more secure. Multiple this complex. So we definitely make it easier through our software. And we have three big buckets if you want there really compelling for for our customers, the 1st 1 is all of our software. Arsenal around weapon on his cloud center work looked a musician manager that helps last summer in building a unified application management kind of soft or sweet across home Prem and any of the public clouds that we've been talking about. The 2nd 1 is, as you said, we build on our DNA, which is, if you want and you heard Gettler today are multi domain kind of architecture, right, which is incredibly relevant in this case, you are not working in security. Fabric really is important there, and the thirties are ability because we don't compete with any other big players to partner with them and solve problems for our customers. So these three buckets are really, really important that deliver. Ah hi business value to >> our customers if I want to come back to something we're talking about is the Customs said the customers don't want a different security regime for each cloud, right? So it's complicated because, first of all, they're trying to struggle with their own security regime anyway, Right? Right? And that's transforming. What is the right right? Sorry security regime in this cloud here. How is it evolving? >> Well, me, What we're doing is we're bringing tools like Te Trae Shen, which now runs on prim and in the clouds. Things like stealth watch what's runs on permanent cloud and simply bringing them security frameworks that are very effective where I think a very capable of well known security vendor, but bringing them the capability to run the same capabilities in there on prem environments in their data centers as well as a multiple public clouds, and that just eliminates the scenes that hackers could maybe get into. It makes common policy possibles. They going to find policy around an application once and have it apply across Balto environments, which not only is easier for them but eliminates potential mistakes that they might make that might leave things open. Joe Hacker. So for us, it's that simple bringing very effective common frameworks for security across all these >> years. You certainly see the awareness of the security imperative moving beyond the SEC ops team. There's no question about that. It's now board level lines of business are worried about. For their digital transformation was data, but our organizations at the point where there operationalize ing security practices and the like, you know, to the extent that they should be >> well, I mean, I think when you say they should be, there's always room for improvement. Okay, but we're seeing just about all of our customers. I mean, as you said, securities is a sea level, if not a board level discussion and just about all of our customers. It's routinely top first or second concern on a survey when Custer's saw about what's concerning them with the clouds. And so we're seeing them really view, you know, security's foundational to what they're doing. >> I mean, it used to be. This sort of failure equals fire mentality. You somebody cracks through, you're fired. And so nobody talked about it. Now I think people realize, look, bad guys are going to get through. It's how you respond to them. Don't you think about how you using analytics, but yeah. So >> when we start just the >> way you were moving quickly >> towards, well, more or less quickly to a zero trust kind ofwork thie action assist you in this area every since the acquisition ofthe duo is performing exceptionally well. And if you want at the top of the security ecosystem in a multi polar world, you find identity because if you don't know who the user or the thing is, they're trying to use a certain application, you're in trouble because perimeter, all security off course is important. But you know that you're going to be penetrated, right? So it boils down to understanding who's doing what and re mediating a soon as possible. So it's a whole different paradigm >> of a security huge tail. When Francisco it's a business growing 21% a year, it's three more than three times the growth of the company. Overall, which is actually still pretty good. Five or 6%. So security rocketship? >> Yeah, Fabio, Just I noticed before we did the interview here that everybody is wearing the T shirts. The cloud takeover is happening here at the definite zone. So give those of us that you know aren't among the 28,000 you know here at the show. A little bit of what's happening from you're >> gonna do something unusual going, gonna turn that question to keep because he was actually on stage >> the second single. Why don't you just get that off? You know, I think it links back to it. Bobby. Always talking about what talent I mean, obviously the most important thing we bring our customers is the technology. We are a technology company, but so many of our customers were asking us to help them with this talent cap. And I think the growth of definite I mean, we're actually sitting here in the definite zone. It's got its own area Here. It's Sisk alive. It's gotten bigger every single year. Here it's just go live. The growth of definite is a sign of how important talent issue is as well as the new certifications that we announce we expanded our certification program to include software conjuncture with Dev. Net. So now people be able to get professional certifications Francisco not just on networking but on software capabilities and skills. And this is something both our partners, our customers have told us. They're really looking for now in terms of the takeover, it's something fun that the definite crew does. I think you're doing five of them during this week. I was really excited, Suzy. We asked us to be the first Eso es the opportunity. Kick it off. It does include beer. So that's one of the nice things. It includes T shirts, both things that I think are prevalent in the developer community. I'll say, Andi, just have an hour where the focus is on cloud technology. So we got everyone in cloud T shirts, a bunch of the experts for my product enduring teams on hand. We had some special presentations, were just many an hour focused on cloud >> Well, and I love that you're doing that definite zone. We've always been super impressed with this whole notion of infrastructures code. I think I've said many times of all the traditional enterprise cos you know computer companies, if you will hae t companies Cisco has done a better job of anybody than making its infrastructure programmable. We're talking about security before it's critical. If you're still tossing stuff over to the operations team, you're gonna be have exposures. Whereas you guys are in a position now and you talk talent, you're transitioning. You know the role of the C C I. A. And now is becoming essentially a developer of infrastructure is code, and it's a very powerful absolutely. I think we're >> helping our partners and our customers transform. Justus were transforming. I think it's kind of a symbiotic relationship that's super important to us. >> It's also important you think about the balancing act between agility, cost, called security or even data assurance. There. Tradeoffs involved the nobs. You have to turn, but you can. You can you achieve all three, you know, to optimize your business. >> Look, there may always be trade offs, but it's not sort of a zero sum game. All those we sing customers who've automated that through things like C I. D. Move Teo, you know, a different place in a much better place where They're not necessarily making trade offs on security to get better agility if they fully off if they fully automated their deployment chains. So they know that there are no mistakes there. They know that they have the ability to roll out fixes if they need to. They know that they're containers, for instance. They're being scanned from a security perspective, very every time they deploy them. They're actually able to build automated infrastructures that are more agile and more secure so that it's pretty exciting. >> So it involves the automated change management and date assurance talking about containers. That's interesting. Spinning up containers. You want to spend it down frequently. So the bad guys that makes it harder for them to get through. >> You talk about BM sprawling, right? Yeah, right. The Janus sprawling biggest issues out there. And by the way, you know, as you automate this infrastructure, rightly so you mention infrastructures code that you can do the other magic, which is introducing machine learning artificial intelligence. And today they get learn such Gupta gave school. Harold, thank you. Have a terrific demonstration off. You know, finding Rocco's analysis for very, very complex kind of problems that will take forever in the old fashion world. Now, all of a sudden you have the management system. In this case, the nation tells you actually where the problem is, and if you value there that you click a button and instantaneously you deploy, you know, new policies and configuration. That's a dream come true. Literally, you may say, probably we're the last ones to the party in terms of infrastructure players, the industry means. But we're getting there very quickly, and this is a whole new set of possibilities now, >> way talking the cube a lot, and I think it's really relevant for what I'm hearing about your strategies. This cloud is about bringing the cloud operating model to your data wherever your data lives. And that seems to be kind of underscore your your strategy. Absolutely. It's so edge cloud on Prem hybrid, you guys, Your strategy is really to enable customers to bring that operating model wherever they need to. Absolutely right >> that transparency is a big deal. I mean, application anywhere, eating. Did I anywhere? That's a world where we're going to >> guys thoughts. Final thoughts on Sisqo live this year. No, it's only day one gets a customer meetings tonight, but initial impression San Diego >> Well, it's It's a well, it's always great to be in San Diego on DH. It's a great facility, and we know our customers really enjoy San Diego is Well, I think we'll have a great customer appreciation event on Wednesday night. Um, but, you know, I was struck. Uh, you just have to the keynote. I mean, the world solutions was buzzing, and there seems to be is always a lot of energy. It's just go live. But somehow so far this season, maybe even a little bit more energy. I know we've got a number of announcements coming this week across a bunch different areas, including clouds. So we're excited for next few days. >> Well, you got the double whammy first half. We were in February when Barcelona guys don't waste any time. You come right back. And June, your final thoughts value. >> Oh, it's just so exciting to speak with customers and partners. Over here, you can touch their excitement. People love to come together and get old. The news, you know, in one place it's this tremendous amount of energy here. >> Keep copter Fabio Gori. Thanks so much for coming on The Cube. Appreciate it. Thank you for having your walkabout, keeper. Right, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. David Out. A student of Aunt Lisa Martin. We're live from Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego, right back.