>> Woman: From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to this cube conversation. Going to be digging in talking about how storage, in the software world, moving forward to cloud native containerized environment. Happy to welcome to the program. First time guests, Paul Sustman. He is the product manager for info scale storage and availability products with Veritas. Paul, thank you so much for joining us. >> Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to talk about what we're doing for support for containers and Kubernetes. >> All right, so, Veritas I think, most people should be familiar with Veritas when it comes to the storage world of course, strong and long history. Why don't you level set us first on infoscale, I've got way too much history going back to, things like Veritas volume manager, and the like, but infoscale today in 2020, how should we be thinking of it, and kind of the region has out in the marketplace? >> Yeah. First off our infoscale, infoscale is a product that's used by very critical infrastructure, the top enterprises, the top 11 out of 12 airline reservation systems, the top 19 out of 20 investment banks, right? These are companies that use infoscale to drive their business, not just an application, but actually keep their business available and operational. So, we've had a long legacy. You talked about some of the history. We are formerly known as storage foundation, going back 25 years Veritas storage foundation, as it was known at that time was one of the first virtualization technologies, where we virtualized storage for hard drives, right? That's where the volume management came in. We really support for many different file systems, both clustered or shared storage, as well as non shared storage, came out with support for Unix to Linux migrations, added support for virtualization technologies, and came out with a lot of optimizations for storage efficiency and performance optimizations. And we've been building upon that legacy ever since. We've recently come out with a lot of support for AWS cloud as well as Azure cloud, and support for SAP HANA as well as SAP netWeaver for Azure. And, we have customers who are now migrating to their SAP environments up into the cloud. So, long history of this, we came out with Docker support back in 2016 for Docker containers. We made a bet that Docker was going to win. We actually built our net backup flex appliances around the Docker platform. It turns out that wasn't quite accurate. It turns out Kubernetes won, there's some standards now that have come out around storage and networking interfaces, and the world has shifted and it's picking up that standardized platform. So we're doing the same. So, what we're doing is a couple of different things. First off, we are, coming out with a persistent storage solution, for leveraging the CSI storage interface. And, we're coming out with a high availability solution, which is leveraging some of our legacy code around VCs and around the service group technology we have an intelligent monitoring framework, to monitor what's going on inside the container. And we're going to be adding that technology in the infoscale and releasing it later this year. So that's what we're actively working on. I'm really excited about the fact that we're able to bring forward this legacy that we have, where we've done it incredibly well on physical environments and virtual environments. And as customers move to the cloud, to also support containers. We're seeing that mission critical applications are starting to move to containers. We're having a large number of our customers come to us and saying, "what's your roadmap? Where are you going on containers? We've been talking about the flex appliance, on the net backup appliance where we've done really support for that years ago." And they're looking to actively start moving some of those mission critical apps. But what they're seeing is, is that in the container environment, it's missing a lot of the enterprise capabilities that exists on physical platforms. >> Paul. >> Yeah. >> Paul, if I could, so yeah, I'm glad we got the news in here. (mumbles) if we can level set our customers a little bit. >> Sure. >> The marketplace here. So, I think back to server virtualization and VMware. We spent about a decade as an industry going from, yeah it's supported and it works with it too. How do we really optimize it, and make sure it is really supported? When you talk about cloud environment, talk about containerization, we've gone through a maturation journey there also, and in some ways it's got a little bit faster, and we've learned from the past, but it has been a journey we've been on. So, you talk about Docker helped really, bring containers to the masses and the enterprise especially. But maybe give us a little bit as to, you throw it a couple of things like interfaces that are supported to enable a storage more how Kubernetes fits into things. Help us understand, how it's not just supporting the environment, but making sure that they're optimized and take advantage of the feature functionality that people are looking for. And why they go to these containerized Kubernetes environments. >> Yeah. That's a great thing. So, first off IDC called out that containerization is actually it has a potential of replacing what VMware has done around VMs and virtual machines, and that's, I think there's several driving factors for container adoption, right. It comes down to that term cattle not pets, which is often used around containers where you're able to manage things at larger scale or a larger number of items. And it comes down to the fact that the container itself is a much smaller image size than a VM. It's a fraction of the size of a VM, and that makes it possible to be more agile. It makes it possible to have a higher density of containers versus VMs. It makes it easier to manage as well. And because of that, there's faster adoption, with developers and speed and efficiency coming about where developers are making changes quicker in a container environment. And that's very appealing to customers. So, we're seeing a lot of interest in containers. The applications that went there first were applications that were not the typical mission critical application, but we're more of a web type application that didn't have a dependency on persistent data. The data was temporal. But what we're seeing now is, as adoption happens more and more in the container environment. And as people realize that there's a lot of advantages to this container versus a VM, there looking to take those applications and lift and shift them to a container environment, to take advantage of those benefits. So, that's what we're seeing it right now. >> Yeah. It's really interesting, right. You know, Paul, when you looked at that virtualization adoption, it was what a VM really did, is it brought the whole operating system along with me. So, inside that we have, not only the operating system, but typically one application but there'll be more, as opposed to a container gets closer to that atomic unit of the application, or even if it's microservices architecture, it might just be a service inside there. So, I guess that that brings us to the point when you talk about storage, what I really care about. I care about my data, I care about my applications. As you mentioned, often there are different type of applications. Developers are building new applications, using containers as an example. Help us understand where Veritas and infoscale fits in, what applications you're supporting today from a containerized environment. And are there any things you're saying is that, "hey, this is what you should do containers, and at least for certain enterprise environments, maybe we're not quite ready for certain things here yet." >> Yeah. So let, let me take a step back. If you look at the maturity in that technology shift, in my opinion, we're at today with containers where we were early on with VMs. So, early on with the VMs, a lot of people were saying that those virtual machines, they're not really suitable for production code, they're not suitable for mission critical applications. You really should run those on dedicated hardware. In what we've seen is actually a shift in VMs, when people run pretty much everything on VMs now. It's your first platform by default, instead of a physical server. And now the same thing is kind of happening with cloud as well. In containers, what we're seeing is that the early adopters, they weren't looking for those critical or enterprise data requirements, things like security and scale and performance. They were okay with the status quo. But as people are starting to move things that drive their business, or they're going to run their business on, they really need those requirements. They need the same level set of enterprise capabilities that exists today in VMs, on VMs and exists today on physical environments or even in the cloud, a lot of capabilities in the cloud, that's very secure. It's very resilient. The data is very durable. Those capabilities exist there, but on containers, they've been lacking until recently. And so, what we're doing, is we're trying to bring those same capabilities that our customers are used to, for those customers as they're moving those mission-critical applications to containers. >> Excellent, so, let's talk about the services that that infoscale offers. When we first moved to cloud, there were some that thought, "Oh, hey, wait, maybe I don't need to think about things like high availability and data protection, I'll just architect the cloud that way." I think we know from like a security standpoint, it's a shared responsibility model that everybody understands. When it comes to containerization also, I'm often architecting things differently. So, I have to think about things a little bit different, but I don't think it removes the need, for some of the services that we typically see, from solutions like you offer from Veritas. Maybe, give us a little bit of understanding as to, is it the same, Is it a little bit different, and what is needed in today's new architecture? >> Yeah. That's a great question. So, if you look at containers, and start reading a lot of their documentation around Kubernetes, what they claim and what they point out, is that the underlying storage is responsible for the high availability of the storage. It's not the requirement of the application. It's not the requirement of the IT administrator. (mumbles) push it back on the storage. And if you look at the way storage is used or consumed with containers, it's really, there's two types of storage. There is block-level storage, which is presented from the disk array. The challenge with block-level storage by itself is that there's no data management right there. What ends up happening is that, the database does the data management and the database in order to take advantage or compensate for that lack of data management. Often what happens is the database is oversubscribed. So, you present too much data, or the database in the end up wasting space. The other side of things, the common use cases around files, and the most common use case, or the most way that most people use with containers, is actually leveraging NFS. NFS was never designed for mission critical applications. It's really designed for very small IO, and it will guarantee or maintain right consistency. But if you have multiple applications accessing the same share, who knows who's going to actually win. Somebody will win, and it might not be who you want to win. So, you have data corruption or data integrity issues with them NFS, not to mention that you have huge performance challenges with NFS. Again, it was never designed for mission critical application. And so those are areas that our customers have looked to us in the past, and look to us right now, to present storage which is very high performance and very highly available, and is often replicated across the Metro or across geo locations, across availability zones, to other data centers. So that you have multiple redundant copies. And so that you just don't lose data, right. That's something that we've done really well with infoscale and we've done that for applications that require share resources. And we've done that for applications that require their own repository, their own data store. So, it's an opportunity for customers, to use or have other storage, which is persistent, highly available, higher performance, for use with their containers, other than NFS or block storage. >> Excellent. Well, we know that the storage, we always use to joke all, is that the only constant is change, in the cloud native world, we know that it accelerating change, is the norm. Give us the final takeaway, when they think of infoscale for Kubernetes in containers, how should we think about Veritas, and what differentiates you from really the rest of the marketplace? >> Yeah. If you look at it, it's really simple. I mean we have a solution which works very well for storage, very high performance, very highly available, scales really well. We are going to be releasing a plugin for Kubernetes that will install on storage nodes and make that storage persistent and available to the application running up as a container. We're also taking the technology that we've done around, our availability suite and we are taking some of the technology forward into containers. Now, understanding that Kubernetes does the orchestration, our key differentiation is that we're going to be, monitoring the dependencies of what's critical for that application, right? All the mount points, the network interfaces, all the different processes make up that critical application. We'll be monitoring those applications, actually inside the container and then working with Kubernetes to in collaborating as far as orchestration goes, so we'll tell Kubernetes when it needs to restart the container or restart a pod. Lots of it advantages come a solution. And the way we're building it, again it integrates with Kubernetes. We monitor the what's going on inside the container, and we'll notify Kubernetes of an event change and we'll do that instantaneously. Kubernetes looks at the pod, they don't look at inside the container, right. They don't look at the processes, they don't look at the mount points. So, the pod might be available, but the container itself, you might've lost a process, you might have lost one of the containers. One of your dependencies might have gone away, and we're taking that same availability offering that we've done very well with and the physical environment, and cloud in virtual environments, and bringing that forward to containers. >> Excellent. Paul, any minimum requirements, Kubernetes of course, being open source, there are dozens of distributions out there. So, if I choose >> Paul: Yeah. >> Any of the native services from the public cloud providers or from my vendor of choice, I don't have to be like on 1.16 or 1.17 to get this, what are any considerations there? >> Well the latest version I think is 1.18, they're coming out with 1.19 soon. (murmurs) Kubernetes in my view, they came out with the standards. They came out with a standard network interface and a standard storage interface. We're leveraging those standards, and we're building a plugin towards that standard. That same plugin will be used in Kubernetes and OpenShift and VMware, as well as all the different cloud container offerings. So, our intention is to support all those. We'll be supporting Kubernetes on day one. Out of the box for Linux platforms, with all the same storage capabilities that we have with impulse scale, and with the same agent framework and monitoring framework that we have with infoscale for our availability as well. >> Excellent. Well, Paul Sustman, thank you so much. It's been great to watch the maturation of the storage environments in the container and Kubernetes world. Thanks so much joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> All right, I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching the cube. (upbeat music)

>> From Orlando, Florida It's theCube covering SAP Sapphire Now 2018! Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome, you're watching theCube, On The Ground at SAP Sapphire Now. I'm your host, Keith Townsend. We're in steamy Orlando. Great convention center size of 16 American football fields. Got in about three thousand steps this morning, but you know what, I'm not here to talk about me. We're here talking about the relationship between Microsoft and NetApp. We have Brad Berkey, GM SAP Global at Microsoft and Kevin Zhang, Tech Solutions Pro, and this is a mouthful, SAP on Azure Intelligent Global and you're a black belt? >> Yes. >> Oh wow! >> Yes, I can kickbox. >> You can kick some SAP butt. >> Yes (laughs) oh no, yes, yes we do great solutions. >> So first off let's talk about the NetApp, Microsoft relationship as it pertains to SAP. What's the story behind NetApp and Microsoft? >> The great thing aout NetApp and Microsoft is you both have the same vision, right. For us, it's about our responsibility to help our customers innovate. And NetApp is a key partner for us in our ability to help our customers innovate and provide solutions around SAP. >> So, let's talk about those solutions around SAP. One of the things that's getting pushed an awful lot is that SAP is now cloud ready. We can go to the cloud. We can go to these hyperscalers, such as Azure or As-zure and swipe a credit card and get up and running with HANA. Tell us about that experience. How does that go exactly? >> Kevin? >> Oh yeah, so I don't know if you have heard. We just announced we released a 12 terabyte memory size virtual machine. Our Halo logging instances can go up to 24 terabytes. So we ran the largest SAP workload in the world. There are so many customers, about 400 SAP Azure customer. Personally I work with about 30 SAP on Azure customers and over 77 or 80 SAP HANA on Azure customers. So, it's very exciting and we see that the trend is picking up, the demand is picking up worldwide. >> Wow! Bill McDermott on stage yesterday gave the numbers around SAP HANA in general, 1800 customers. So Microsoft having 400 SAP HANA customers. >> Sure, just to be clear on that. So when we talk about customers that are sitting inside of Azure for their SAP Landscape, that's both traditional NetLever base and HANA base and I think the number that you have is closer to 70 of that larger number. The real important thing that customers are seeing today is the... When people think of cloud, they think about cost reduction. I'm gonna save money because I'm gonna be renting equipment. The true value is in your ability to be nimble to innovate, right? So imagine a customer puts their SAP Landscape inside of Azure and it's NetLever based say the older stuff. At any point along that journey, they can call us up and say, "I want the infrastructure for HANA." They can innovate at will. If they buy hardware that sits on-premise, that hardware's set to run that particular landscape, it's not set to run HANA. So there's some opportunities for the customer to innovate using Azure. It's not just cost savings, it's around efficiencies and the ability to innovate at will. >> So let's talk about hybrid clouds scenarios around that very concept. We had another NetApp partner on that talked about the scenario in which customers have this desire to innovate quickly. Traditionally, in a traditional enterprise, to your point, if I wanted to spin up a HANA workload, I'd have to procure hardware, I'd have to get my bases team to lay down the NetWeaver stack along with HANA. It could be a couple of months before I'm up and running. Then I can innovate, do my innovation. How does Microsoft help shorten that cycle? >> I can speak to it. We actually have another partner here with there model, as well, SUSE. HANA is drawn SUSE right ahead and different flavors of Linux. and they're running on Azure. Today, we are able to deploy the entire SAP Landscape using alternative scripts inside Azure. In 30 minutes, you have the entire SAP Landscape deployed including the large virtual machine M series for your HANA cluster. You also have the ESCS, the central instances and also the AFS Cluster as well as your application servers. All of those things running your automation, your cloud speed in 30 minutes instead of three months. >> So one of the obviously manages of cloud, in general, is this ability to get to agility. There's a concept that once I've innovated in the cloud, I know what the workload is, it's stable, it's not changing that I bring that back in house. Is that something that you're seeing, are people continuing to run these workloads steady state in the cloud as well? >> I think they're gonna run more so in steady state. We don't see them kind of moving it back. The idea that in a traditional SAP Landscape is that everything is always on. >> Right. >> Right. Since the lights are always on, why not I have my own equipment as opposed to renting just compute from a hyperscaler like Microsoft. The reality is, is again, back to that notion of innovating. If I'm gonna role out, let's say, S4 on top of HANA, so you think about Suite on HANA and then S4, I'm gonna set up all of these test environments, multiple test environments, versions of it as I roll out. I'm gonna be really big for a short period of time then I'm gonna roll it out and shrink back down. Also, when I do upgrades, you think about it like if you're doing payroll at the end of the month, I'm gonna be big for short periods of time. So we call that bursting, and it's that bursting that allows you to continually to reduce costs you wouldn't bring back on-prem, where you can't burst, right? Makes sense? >> That makes sense. So let's talk about some of these business conversations that you've had with customers. What have been some of the primary drivers other than the obvious agility? What are some of the conversations that you look at the broader Microsoft portfolio solutions that you're able to bring into customer conversations? >> Two things come to mind. One of which is when you think about enterprise-class security across all domains, right? So right now we provide Azure for Office 365. That's an Azure tenant. And we can give you advance security for that. Imagine that I can provide that same security for your SAP system. I want to give you an example of the type of security solutions. We have an intelligent IOT-based security model that sits inside of Azure that will predict hacks. They'll look at your environment and say, "you look just like a customer who has been hacked" or "you have the attributes of a customer "who could get hacked" and they'll proactively come in and say you need to make these adjustments That kind of stuff sits inside of the cloud in Azure. So it's not just... And again, I think the misnomer is it's just about cost savings 'cause if it was just about cost savings, then at some point, your depreciation models for on-premise hardware as long as you can stay and not change, so not changing would save you a lot of money. So that's why I get back to you, it'll allows you to change without burden of impact. >> Talking about change in the industry, we can't have a 7.5 billion dollar acquisition and not talk about it on theCube. We kind of eat this stuff up. You guys acquired GitHub. Let's talk about the relationship of developers, one of the things I haven't heard a lot, at least in conversations I've had on theCube so far this week have been about the developer. Talk about the importance of the developer relationship and potential integrations with GitHub, if you can, and SAP. >> First, that is one of my favorite topics I have. I came from a development background we call enable agility allow you to run continuous development and continuous integration, and the GitHub has been a integrate part of Microsoft Solution already. We are probably the largest contributor in the GitHub before Google and Facebook where if you ranking based on the history. The open source has been cultural after the Satya takeover as CEO has been our winning grace, open source, and we actually... The majority of our code and our deployment is in the GitHub. In the SAP world, the ARM templates for automation templates, JSON templates, and all the automation scripts we deployed in the GitHub, and we share with customer as a community. If they actually use those scripts through their deployment, continuously improve the scripts for automation. >> So, continuous integration, continued development is not a term that we hear a lot in the SAP world. As we're bringing these concepts from I think thought into reality with services such as GitHub to store DevOps scripts, automation scripts, what has been the business impact of being able to bring a continuous integration, continued development practice to SAP which is usually not big? >> I'll give you a good example. For example, when Brad Berkey mentioned earlier doing the SAP Landscape deployment, you have no N+1 deployment and you want to do a test environment, you want to do a Sandbox to troubleshoot the incidence. Today, with the scripts automation, you can spring up an entire system in three hours, four hours, including S4, including the time old system when you put in the business object BI and the other things together. You can test this and then shut down the entire system and delay the resource group inside Azure. As we move that system, they re-spring up as necessary. Also, we're working with SAP called Landscape Manager which allows you to clone the system inside the Azure. The scripts behind it is actually a computer integration into the dual element type of scripts allows you to replicate system files, allow you to deploy another testing system or training system. It gives you a lot of modern deployment methodology to give you fast agility to the business. >> So Microsoft, the ultimate platform company, one of the things that designates the platform company is that your partners basically make more money than you off the platform. Windows is a great example of a platform. So you have platform, Azure is definitely becoming known as a platform, and then we have NetApp, the data driven company. Talk through the value of the NetApp data fabric, data driven technology and platform as it pertains to the ability to have the same data operation strategy on-prem and in the Microsoft Cloud. >> Okay, I'll give you an example. A lot of our customer, Brad sells a lot of SAP on Azure to many customers. I've supported those customers. Many of them because NetApp has a super, very high speed fastest management, snapshot management to data protection and data recovery and backup, and also the DR capability, customers demand asks us can we actually work with Microsoft in the cloud or use a similar technology. So they deployed the NetApp ONTAP inside of Azure today. And we're able to support AFS file services to file sync from on-prem to the cloud, from one Azure region to another region, leverage those ONTAP snap mirroring and all the technology as well. So to enable to provide an enterprise level file sync, file protection, file recovery and warning replication as well. >> So, you guys are pretty good. I'm trying to throw you curve balls but you're pretty much knocking 'em out the park, so I'ma try to throw another curve ball. Bring the hybrid IT story in for me from a Microsoft perspective when it comes to Azure stack. How does Azure stack play a role in the overall vision whether it's Edge, Core, or like stationed into the cloud, how does Azure stack play a role in it? >> In Azure stacks. It's not for SAP. >> Yeah, okay. Azure stack is a very important overall view from Edge to the entire cloud. We have the 50 regions globally. We have many data centers combined. The largest of public quota from region perspective, but still they're areas, for example, like a cruise ship, like a defense department, they may actually require Edge inside a prime type of technology stack. Azure stack allow you to use the same interface, same view to deploy the technology. When you actually connect it, you can synchronize your subscription. So it can allow you to have end-to-end access from your on-premise into the cloud. Microsoft has the perfect hybrid cloud strategy here, and it allow you to do not only the IaaS and PaaS and also the SaaS solution to our customers. >> So, okay, let's bring the conversation back up a couple of levels and talk, Brad, what have been the conversations here? After the keynote this morning, talking about the intelligent business, the conversations yesterday with Bill McDermott with the super-high energy about SAP going into CRM, what has been the conversations with customers? >> We've had a privilege for a lot of customer meetings in here. The great thing about SAP Sapphire is you got about 20,000 customer attendees here. They're the big ones, and at the C-Suite, so we get to have some great conversations. The customer conversations have been around the notion of the responsibility that Microsoft and SAP have to them. To the point where I was speaking with a customer early, he says, "You have an accountability "to help me be innovative." That's a very important responsibility. A lot of that revolves around enterprise-class security. A lot of that revolves around uptime and legacies between those environments. "What's my performance attribute?" and "Are you going to be there with me forever?" Now when a customer chooses Azure or they choose SAP and they choose Azure, certainly, it's really a three-part partnership. The customer, Microsoft, and SAP as a partnership. If I had to add a fourth one to that, it would be the systems integrator because in the case, Microsoft doesn't upgrade, migrate, move or install anything. So we rely on all the many partners that are here to do that set of work, everywhere from Accenture to Gemini to Brave New World. That was ABC, right? I got those out, right? All of those partners are very key to both Microsoft and SAP to ensure customer success. So a lot of the meetings that we've had here have been with those partners and those customers. >> Wow, to be a fly on the wall for those. I would love to go into more detail. We've run out of time. I'm getting the wrap sign, but I would love to have a conversation around support, integration, way more areas than we have time for. We'll have to get you on theCube again. You're now Cube veterans. From Orlando, this is Keith Townsend for theCube. Stay tuned or stay in the YouTube feed to find out more about what's going on about SAP Sapphire Now On The Ground. Talk to you soon. (lively music)

(techno music) >> From Orlando, Florida, it's The Cube. Covering SAP Sapphire Now 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to The Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend and we are at SAP Sapphire Now 2018 in Orlando. This is a massive event. Not only are there 20,000 people here but there's about a million engaging with SAP this week online. Amazing! We're joined by a Cube alumni. Welcome back to The Cube >> Thank you Lisa. Chris Hallenbeck. You are the SVP of Database and Data Management at SAP. >> What they tell me. (laughter) >> That's what they tell you. That's what your cards say? >> It is. >> Alright. Well, thanks for coming onto The Cube. So this event is enormous. Sixteen American football fields is this space. You really can close your rings. >> Well, and it is, is the energy is just crazy. It's actually different than other years. I don't know why but it really it is. >> You know yesterday, that's what Keith and I were saying yesterday. Bill McDermott really kicked things off with such enthusiasm and genuine energy. It was really amazing to see that. You don't see that with a lot of, see levels on day one. That energy was really palpable as was. >> Enterprise applications aren't that sexy huh? (crosstalk) >> Apparently they are. >> Well, apparently they are now. >> Who knew? >> Well, and that's the thing too. You guys wanting to be one of the top ten most valuable brands in the world. Up there with Apple, Google. And one of the cool things I saw yesterday on a bus out here was ERP that you can talk to and hear from. So taking this, what was an invisible product and making it now something that people can engage with like a digital assistant at home. Remarkable. >> Well, yeah. No. The user interface which has been a huge, huge thing. We have these massive UX labs throughout the world. We have ones in Palo Alto. We have ones throughout Germany and other locations. And we've been really looking at how people engage with the software. And it's not only through a screen although that's it and we win all these Red Dot awards, the Preeminent Design Award. We get those consistently now, many a year, for the work we're doing within UI which is fabulous work. But we're also again, a lot of people aren't in front of computers anymore. So how can I actually just speak into my phone and get all the information I need? How can I have the device speak to me? How can somebody wearing gloves on an assembly line, automatically they vibrate if they're reaching for the wrong bin and would have grabbed the wrong part which create a faulty defective product. So it's all built in, our actually shoes vibrating if something else happens. And so actually this interaction of sensors in two way, taking IOT data in, and then also feeding it back into signals but that's part of the interface of the software. It's not always sitting in a screen and if you are in front of a screen, they're actually pretty great to use. >> So speaking of these consumer technologies, we've had this expectation and these technologies have changed the expectations of what our business tech is. We expect to be able to do things such as, hey, say what's the latest score from last night's game. And now there's these intelligent streams of having conversations with computers. All that is powered by the data on the backend. SAP traditionally hadn't been. We talked about it on stage this morning. SAP hadn't been known for the type of company to sub at to the real-time data entry, real-time data analytics. >> Yeah. You're all about data management. We heard something on the stage this morning. What was it? Data management suite? (crosstalk) The mature database now. (crosstalk) What is that? What's that about? >> Well, now what we're finding, you know, HANA enabled these incredible use cases and originally we were all, we actually didn't run underneath SAP applications an entire database but really a data platform that people were doing these incredible innovations on. And then of course it really started to get swept underneath and it went under BW and then it became part of Sweden HANA and everyone just focused said, oh yeah, HANA is just gonna be like Netweaver. It's just a system that runs underneath SAP and we kept saying no, it's not, no, it's not. And it was sort of but that was its main, that was where it was mostly getting deployed. And then what you're actually seeing here at Sapphire is this massive breakout of technology in full use use cases. That people are using it outside even non-SAP customers are using it to solve their individual problems. Really going after that huge, that 80% of data which is non-SAP but the challenge there with is how do you handle that? Data is now sitting out in all these different clouds. HANA was known for orchestrating data but it was really designed to do it on premise because we knew not everyone's gonna put data into our system. We came in late, right. And yeah we're the fastest growing but data was sitting in Oracle, and the TIZA and that's coming up and going into data lakes, running on ADO and we could orchestrate and move that data into HANA or do it in place. Go to the cloud, it's totally different. Average customer and CIOs are telling you they have six to eight clouds and you're like, wait, how did you get to six to eight? And you're like, yeah, they've got data in storage just in Azure, in AWS, and in Google but they've also got in all these different cloud applications and a lot are from SAP but a lot aren't and yet and so companies are telling us we've lost the view of who our customer is. We've lost view of our business. Which is the opposite of what you would have expect from this data explosion and, you know, digital transformation which was like showed up and disappeared in like two years but so how do you handle that? If I have data. So much data sitting out there. IOT data in the edge, love file data sitting in object stores, I've got data in different applications, data still on Fram. How can I actually possibly move that? You can't. There's no way to put it all together in one cloud. Everyone says, oh, bring it to my cloud. It's not viable. >> Right. So how do I actually push compute, get the data I need, refine it in place, and orchestrate and move that together with the ultimate security in governance? Which is what our customers are wanting. They're saying, how Chris for our non-SAP data and SAP, can I move data for application integration? How do I do analytics? How can I pre-press data and load it into a data lake, into a data warehouse and then I'll come back and do some other cool stuff on it with data science? And that's all about by combining HANA and data hub together in a suite with deep integrations, technically from a data center readiness it's all as a service runs in the cloud but because we're SAP it's also on Prem enabled if you still want to run it that way. And it allows you to solve these huge data problems and we also help you. We bring SAPs intellectual property of data models to this so you can use things like Enterprise Architecture designer and say look we don't have a model of customer. I'm like, well yeah, what kind of industry are you in? Okay, I've got a high tech customer model pre-built for you so then you don't have to build that from scratch. We bring the things to you. So now you can get very, very quick value right from the implementation within weeks. >> And that speed is obviously essential. >> Well, how does it. (crosstalk) >> HANA's a terror, which it's known for. >> But you're right, sorry Keith, you're right that in the consumer world because we have access to everything everywhere from so many devices, we as business people expect the same thing. >> Yeah. And so that speed is critical. You talk about, you know, multiple clouds, data in so many different sources. It's not valuable unless you can actually harness it and extract insights that may only be viable for a quarter or something like that. >> But nobody even knows where the data is and so you look at like we're about to, we were talking about HANA. I just came back and we're coming out a little bit later the year with HANA data hub 2.3 which is part of HANA data management suite and that actually has a whole metadata repository. So someone who knows what they're doing goes in and maps out where all this data is located and actually they don't have to do it all themselves, it's got heuristic-al and semantic search to automatically map and categorize data. I can then map that back to like my definition of customer or supplier and other things. Now everyone doing all the analytics and doing exactly what you're talking about Keith where can I just say into my phone, hey, someone in board meeting goes hey what were our results within two peak last year over this year and show and break that down by city and have it just pop up. Just like you say to somebody, hey high school football game, didn't those two play together? Anyone can do that on a mobile device but we don't know the data in our own company. How do you do that? And then let HANA data management suite will automatically know where the data is, orchestrate, go get it, pull it together, and deliver that back to a mobile device that you might have spoken into. >> Do you have a favorite customer that articulates just what you said? >> I do. I just actually walked out of a session. It was just and it sounds a little boring but it's incredible what people are doing. So I just walked out of a thing with the Swiss Federal Railways. Sounds boring but you know where. I live in Europe and everything is by rail, right? And so they're doing about 60 percent of the rail traffic there is passengers, 1.25 million passengers a day plus the balance of 40 percent of the trains are freight. They're having a huge problem because you use huge, it's all electrical and they're trying and so when you get up and it's growing rapidly. So they're, and they do their own power with power plants and when they go up with power plants, when they go over peak they have to spot by at just massive times a premium on that data on that. And we're actually doing this a lot of place out of rail but they also use electricity on heaters and other stuff in the cold winters and air conditioners. They're now streaming information off the trains, off of the points all the way along the signals and from all the power plants. They know peak usage. It automatically detects when they're going to go over and rather than going into the plants, it actually cuts the heaters off for a second here or there. There's heaters in all the switching equipment. They know how long they can do it. HANA managed this, this is automatically so it's IOT in but it's automatically making automated business decisions, shutting down systems programmatically, intelligently actually using machine learning and keeping it. So now what they do, so now they don't need to go out to the spot market in buy energy anymore. It has cut their electrical usage by a third. >> How much money have they saved? >> No, what's a third is how much money they've saved. The electricity is still high but they're not buying that really, really >> The premium. expensive premium and so you're streaming data, it's all over, it's all happening in real time, and it's automatically kicking out business processes without human intervention. And then it's a platform for them where they're adding all this new capability to save in other ways and so it's just, you know, simple but clean really good use. Good for the planet. It's great for the customers. And now they have, and by the way, when you hit those peaks, that's when they short-out systems and that's when trains stall out. So actually you're getting better servicing of the trains. So, yeah, it's good storage. >> So edge core cloud, great breakdown of kind of the use case. The data is being collected at the edge. Data may not even be collected in a SAP system? (crosstalk) We're doing great! >> It's reality. >> It is reality and one of the things that I think architecturally that enterprises have a hard time wrapping their head around, HANA in-memory database defeats latency when you're inside the database, when you're inside of the data center, however you were thinking about HANA data management. How does the in-memory database impact and data management impact data retrieved from the edge? Help explain the importance of metadata and willing down that data so that we can get it back to the cloud and process their important data. >> Keith, it's a great question. Sometimes, HANA is not, you know. Although we like to go it's a hammer and we think everything's a nail but sometimes you don't which is why we have data hub. And it has unique capabilities for doing something called data pipelines and movement. So we can actually do all the data transformation movement calling tensor flow in flight. We do this as the data is in movement so we're actually doing all of that processing as it's moving through. If you need extra horsepower and want to combine different data types and there's certain capabilities pipeline engines don't solve well. HANA is a service which HANA is now completely cloud native. They can actually bring up HANA in a few seconds. It will take the data flow in, compute it, it's not being used as database, it's a compute layer out at the edge, the data flows out to move on to the next step usually via a data pipeline from data hub and that service gets shut off. So you just pay from small compute when you need to bring out the big guns and then it moves on. And maybe that data never comes back into a HANA system, maybe it does, but you're using the technological underpinnings of in-memory computing in this way as just literally a flow through compute engine. >> And I think that's the disconnect a lot of organizations have because you associate s4 bases, BW, all these applications on top of the database. They don't think of HANA as something that you can spin up, spin down. >> But that's brand-new and that is what we just announced and went live last week. So HANA was, there's traditional on-prem system, bare-metal, it run virtualized but I mean talking about big arm running HANA systems. Now to actually have it, so HANA as a service came up. We rewrote the entire thing to make it completely cloud native and orchestrated. It's all containerized in elastic. It runs, it came up last week running an AWS and available also in GCP. Our target is a little bit later this year. I always have to use a safe harbor language. It'll be coming up on, it'll be coming up in Azure and after all the rest of SAPs data centers and then also coming out and in Asia through Huawei and coming up in those data centers as well as some others we have planned. And that's where you actually get this fully elastic HANA that's able to come up and come down automatically. >> So this massive transformation that you guys have achieved in 46 years, say 46 years young, 390,000 customers. >> Yeah. SAP didn't get to where it is without having a really robust symbiotic partner relationship ecosystem. We're here in the NetApp booth. There's a 150 partner sessions alone at Sapphire this week. Talk to us a little bit about how the partner ecosystem is helping you guys give customers the flexibility and the choice that they need. >> Yeah, no, and it is. SAP can't do everything. And so a lot of the aspects are that we look at in very different ways. Of course, some companies and the big corporations we deal with need strategic SIs, these strategic integrators to do consulting and other pieces and we work really closely with them on and they have specialized practices and other things on both HANA. They're extending out into the HANA data management suite. We do the same thing since we realize you need boutiques. We're the fastest geospatial engine in the world but that's a very niche piece although geospatials may be the hottest data type out there happening right now. Those are very specialized boutique firms. So we work with all of those and to help our customers when they need that. So we work with a lot of specialists. We work boutiques but we couldn't do this without hardware partners, with storages which is why we allow. There's still a lot of folks running on Prem. So we still have to have all these things so we have HANA tailor data center integration so you can certify your systems like NetApp. You can certify everything else on prem so you don't have to rebuy new hardware. Use what you have. I'm not trying to get you to buy a bunch of new appliances. And then the other one is a lot of is via and OEMs have started building out on HANA but now what they really want to do is go directly on HDMS as the cloud offering because it runs both in any cloud, which is a very unique differentiator that we run in every major cloud out there, as well as coming back and running on-premise. They can play their applications very risk-free with the extreme security and governance we're providing within that stack to build applications that they want to sell and use for enterprises. >> So you've been with SAP about six years you said and even Bill McDermott said in his keynote on day one, biggest Sapphire ever. You've seen a tremendous amount of growth. The momentum here is so palpable. The types of validation that SAP is getting through the voice of the customer, through partners like Netta, the different partner ecosystem. That validation is electric. >> Yeah. >> What excites you about everything that was just announced in the last couple of days about the rest of 2018? Where do you go from here? >> Oh my god! Okay, it's like asking me to pick my favorite child. (crosstalk) But, you know, honestly I get to. You get to see the innovations that I still enjoy. I love the full use use cases because I'm like a compute guy at heart but I see all the applications that we've done in these demonstrations. The fact that people have applications that are giving all of the analytics in line with the transactions on these gorgeous UIs. I mean you run these things on a mobile device that means the data layer has 20 milliseconds to actually not only grab the data but to do all the predictive analytics and everything you see to give you that nice two second screen to screen time on your mobile device and that's what we've worked for six years to enable. And now we're seeing that potential coming out at places like Swiss Rail. Just was talking with Gustav Rossi through the biggest cancer research labs and hospitals throughout all of Europe. They're doing all this genomic research, personalized medicine for cancer patients throughout Europe using HANA. I didn't even know about it, you know, or other ones we talked about beef farmers. Talking about smart farming throughout all the Netherlands. Reducing pesticide use, water usage dramatically down, and they increased yields by 10 percent. I mean and they're doing this on native HANA. So this area for me, the excitement of people and busting out of the SAP core traditional CIO market and moving into this 80% of data is to me exciting that people are seeing that HANA is not just an SAP appliance but it's really a general-purpose data platform for these innovation use cases. >> Helping customers change their business, change industries, save lives, pretty cool stuff. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Chris, thank you so much for stopping by The Cube and sharing with us your enthusiasm and your excitement for what you're doing at SAP. We appreciate it. >> Well, thank you very much. This was awesome. Thank you guys. >> We want to thank you for watching The Cube. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend at SAP Sapphire 2018. Thanks for watching! (techno music)

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering SAP Sapphire Now 2018, brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, and we are in Orlando at SAP Sapphire Now 2018. We're very proud to be in the NetApp booth. NetApp has a very long standing partnership with SAP and we're joined by Roland Wartenburg, the Senior Director of Global Strategic Alliances at NetApp. Roland, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> So NetApp and SAP have been partners for 17 years, very strategic. Let's talk about the role of NetApp in the SAP ecosystem. >> Yeah, happy to do that. So as I said it goes back to I think 2001 when the official partner contract was signed. Actually my role is, I would say it was special because I used to work for SAP, and the first time I worked with NetApp was in 1999. It was actually back then when the whole thing started, it's more than 21 years now, oh time is flying. And NetApp was always and is still a global technology partner. So when you look back at that time over the last 15 years was really about running SAP solutions on top of our technologies, started with F3, went over to SAP Enterprise Suite with Netweaver but now these days when you look at the whole SAP portfolio, there are so many new things. Not only SAP Hana, there is the whole SAP cloud movement with the cloud software service solutions with Hypres, Eribar, Conqueror, you name it, Feedclass, there's so many solutions out there which run now, either operated by SAP or done by SAP with one of their partners in the public cloud space like Google, Microsoft, AWS, for example. In addition you have the new areas with Leonardo covering IOT, Blockchain, machine learning, artificial intelligence and the nice thing is your assio from NetApp is really moving forward from the traditional role as a pure storage provider into so many new ways covering this with entry and data management so that we can offer our joint customers the solutions to cover actually, oh let's say offer solutions to solve the customer's problems in these areas. And IOT, for example, is a really interesting power because you have so many devices in the IOT space, everyone is talking about Etch computing or far computing and when you see how important it is to have data really transferred in a secure way, for example, in healthcare, no question about it, then it's clearly visible that a partner like NetApp offering service in this area for entry and data management, there's no better partner than us to do this with SAP. >> So can we talk about some of the larger ecosystems, NetApp, big partner with SAP, NetApp, big partner with Microsoft. You guys have your NFS service running in Microsoft. Can you talk about how NetApp has moved into a data driven company now. You're in all the major clouds. How important is that to the SAP relationship? >> Oh that's actually my daily business to, to not only cover the so called multi-partner strategies, but also to drive forward because when you look at the SAP, NetApp strategy in general what we do in the Cloud, what we do with Hybrid Cloud scenarios for example, driven by topics like GDPR. That went just live a couple of days ago. Data privacy protection really really important so then you look now at SAP customers where still the big majority runs systems on premises, no question about it, you saw the numbers Bill McDermott showed in the keynote, how many Es Vahana customs they have now. You see that there's a movement from on premises to the Cloud, but not completely. I would say it's also a Hybrid Cloud scenario, specifically what I just said, the whole GDPR topic for example, that customers really want to make sure they're still, have their own data under control either in the Cloud or on premises and this makes not only the challenge for us as a partner but it's also the very interesting part too as a partner to work now with more and more partners which were, before when you looked back at the last five, 10, 15 years, were not part of the SAP ecosystem at all. And that is really, for me in alignment with my daily business to extend this ecosystem in a way that we can offer customers in, almost like a metric you know we have all these partners and you say okay for this specific use case we work together with partner A, in SAP, here with partner B and whatever your name put in there, Microsoft, Skuli, etc. And then have this portfolio offered to the customer in a very comprehensive way. >> SAP has such a wide range of customers from Coca Cola to McLaren Formula One to NetApp as a customer and and Bill McDermott said during his keynote 390 thousand customers in 25 plus industries. They have this lofty goal of becoming one of the top ten most valuable brands globally with an Apple, a Google. They are now 17 on that list and one of the things that struck me yesterday outside of the convention center was seeing a bus that said ERP that you can talk to and hear from. And as they have this ambition to be up there with the Apples that have products and technologies that we interact with and, you know, now they're wanting ERP to become something that you can talk to, how does that help, kind of, lift NetApp? Does it open doors for you guys in new industries where SAP has this almost household brand name? What's the influence there on NetApp? >> Oh definitely, I would say when you look at the role of SAP in this industry it's growing growing. From a branding point of view, from how important you are, not only for Enterprise customers, also for normal end users like you and me and the interesting part is that SAP being the backbone of all these Enterprise business processes sometimes they're not so very known for the normal end users though, if I would ask my daughter hey, you know, of course she knows SAP, no question about it, but do you know any application SAP offers? She probably said no, not really. If I ask her do you know any applications Apple is offering, Microsoft, she would say yes of course so because these big partners with their solutions are actually more at the end user of the consumer user so but when you look now at what SAP is doing you just have to look at a show floor and which areas are SAP getting active in multimedia analytics, etc. You see a lot more branding of rareness all over the place. And as Bill McDermott said that that they really want to increase that and that's the great opportunity for us because when you linked us now from the solution business process level to an area where we are actually the leader in the space of data management. Data is everywhere, everyone knows that and data is created at such enormous speeds that you have to have customers, and end users have to have solutions in place either on a, in an Enterprise environment maybe on the desktop on the tablet or the normal end user on a mobile device to have the opportunity to manage this data. When I look, take my daughter as an example again. Of course she is on Instagram etc., all these things. And whenever you make a picture that's data created >> Right >> And stored somewhere, and it has to be handled. And of course you can talk about security, the different protocols, I think there is a really big need for a partner like NetApp to work together with the key to offer these entry and data management solutions. No question about it. >> So I'd like to hear your thoughts on as we look at all these challenges, whether it's data privacy, smart contracts, the ability to enable supply chain tracking, you know, the formulation of a medicine from the formulation to the manufacturing to getting it on the shelf to being injected, one of the big parts of that conversation is to become Blockchain. SAP announced that their part of a Blockchain initiative How do you view technology like Blockchain in the relationship of NetApp, which is a a data driven company with data storage products, data management products, security concerns and enabling these types of technologies or capabilities through something like Blockchain in your relationship with SAP. >> Blockchain is a really interesting topic for me because when you look at the history of Blockchain go back 20 years ago, it was actually developed for data management in a way, then someone figured out oh this can be used for financial services and the Bitcoin thingy started, and well everyone when you talk about to people what is Blockchain, everyone will think this is financial services, for banking, etc. But now SAP actually invited us last, um October, November last year to join the SAP, Blockchain co-innovation program because, you mentioned that when you use Blockchain now in supply chain management, specifically for smart contracts in manufacturing, automotive, shipment, wherever you have different partners working together in such a chain, and that's the word already, you have different blocks you put together because imagine we three would create a Blockchain, it probably wouldn't be that secure because three pieces can attract right flat away. But in a moment if you have a really more complex, longer chain of ecosystem partners working together like, for example, render producing some products having supplies, shipping that, up to the end user and you want to put this in a smart contract environment so that you as an end user could say oh today I want to have this part of the product enabled. Tomorrow I want to have this part, but not this one anymore. And so it goes back to the original vendor to enable a disfuntion almost like with cell phone technology. You can imagine that the data flow in such Blockchain environment is really really essential because you as a end user, you're gonna have to secure because at the end of the day you pay for it and you want to pay only for that featured function you ordered, so data management and Blockchain goes hand in hand here. So that's why we actually decided okay we want to work here together with SAP. It's a fairly new topic for many many customers so I see this coming for next years more and more and more the customers really see where this can help them to advance from a business point of view but yeah, we are part of that ecosystem. >> So as customers keep their eye on futuristic technologies such as Blockchain, they need these types of capabilities today. Like they still need to be able to do great supply train management. They still need to do data management. What are some of the highlights from a customer's perspective, between the relationship between NetApp technology, and SAP capability as it pertains to digital transformation? We had the NetApp CIO on theCUBE yesterday where he talked about the ability to have empower George, the CEO of NetApp with data driven decisions through that relationship. Are there relationships that you're seeing specifically between the alliances you work with that your like, you know what, no other company could do this other than NetApp and SAP? >> Of course, as I've said we have really the perfect partner for this new world because when you look at the history of NetApp there's a lot going on in terms of digital transformation. We're working much more now with the Cloud service providers We have a Cloud strategy. So we have this and now comes the word, the end to end data management strategy and that's really important for SAP and customers because the customers, they, when you look at SAP customers who've been with SAP for many many many years, they went through this history of free, Enterprise free, now to the Cloud, they still have to manage all the system and you have to make sure that the data is consistent wherever it sits has to call secured, it has to be manageable, it has to be archived, so all this functionality of this features with data you have to have in place and for us is then to report to offer the state of measurement really from the back end on premise over Hybrid Cloud scenarios to the Cloud up to the device the HTY's up to your mobile devices so that we have this whole, and it comes to it again, the chain enabled and that's, I think that is really our competitive advantage here in this partnership with NetApp of SAP for NetApp to offer really this complete entry and data management. >> I think the NetApp marketing team likes to call that the data fabric, the ability to create, whether it's ONTAP or Hybrid Cloud solutions, cloud value, etc., having that underlying technology. >> Exactly, and that's my responsibility the alliance media to look at the complete NetApp portfolio, every product and to make a decision together with other partners with product management, with marketing where it fits in the SAP product portfolio because I don't know if you've ever had the chance to look at the complete SAP portfolio. It's quite large. >> Extensive. >> Yesterday's numbers they have 330 solution, 2300 class of product, and of course in alliance media we can't do all the things, that would be crazy. So as an alliance media we usually have to make clear decisions where are the best opportunities to create business with SAP? What are your customers asking for? So looking at our complete product portfolio with ONTAP, ONTAP Select, the AllFlash technology, ACI, the whole Cloud services, Cloud volume, to make decision where this fits in this SAP world. And that's actually the nice thing that, over the time as I explained it, SAP portfolio increased so much from a portfolio functionality point of view that there is almost everywhere a place where the NetApp product will fit. But again, we have to make a decision where is the place to start because you don't want to boil the ocean but that's what we're working on at SAP to play this overall portfolio for the data frapping and entry and data management. >> One of the things Hasso Plattner talked about in his keynote this morning is that they were hearing, you've mentioned that the sheer volume of products that SAP alone had. You can imagine customers going, where do I start? And he was talking about, you know, hearing from customers who are sort of confused, if you look at the SAP Cloud platform all the different integrations, they talked about, kind of, working to sort of simplify, even naming conventions so the customers can understand better. How does that help NetApp be able to, as you said, kind of make the right decisions on you can do so many different things with SAP? Where do you focus the business and also make sure the customer really can clearly understand the different choices that they have from NetApp to work in SAP environments? >> Oh great question, because a short story, when I look back, as I've told you I was working long time for SAP and when you're an employee of a company you always look at your portfolio, your... And the moment when you leave, and I did this in 2010. I was then six years with Citrix. The first, I remember the first Monday when I was, I was sitting at the Citrix desk, the first time ever I looked at the complete SAP portfolio and I said wow, okay this would be a lot of work. And Hasso was totally right because there's so many solutions for different industries and then they have also different solutions for N Class Enterprises for the SAP, down to, for example with SAP Business One, down to the small chaperone to call on, maybe with 10 employees, and when you look at this whole solution package you wonder, okay, how we fit in there? And this whole run simple, make it simpler this really helps us a lot because at the end of the day we have to make sure that we can tell the customer where the NetApp product fits to the over as a people solution. If that piece appears already difficult to understand it won't be easy if we fit to that more or less in a meshful environment so the easier the SAP colleagues from SAP marketing and product management, the easier they make it for their customers to understand how this whole solution would flow to work, the easier for us to explain how our products fit in the same picture, no questions about it. >> So we are at a massive location. The size of this convention center is 16 American football fields. Huge, tons of partners, tons of customers. As this conference comes to a close in the next day, what are some of the things that you are most energized about, that you've heard from SAP with some of the big announcements in terms of, you know the NetApp, SAP relationship continuing? What are some of the things that you just went, yeah? >> I would say, I come now to Sapphire since 2003. Time is flying. But this one is, as we especially, just enormous as you mentioned, enormous space of the show floor and the number of customers be here. The number of partners, if you come to Sapphire for a long time you go to show floor and see right away ah that's a large one, we have more partners. This year it's unbelievable. It's really large, and the nice thing for us here to be part of this ecosystem is that SAP bring all these customers to Sapphire and inviting us to be part of this ecosystem will enable us also to win more customers, no question about it, this is what we really want to do together with SAP here, go into new business areas, winning new customers for new environment, especially in new world of the whole IOT space, Hybrid Cloud scenarios, when in the past when you look at new ways like automotive, IOT space essuvitive, when you look at what we did in the past and then I was not as active in areas as SAP I so that's a great opportunity for us and when you look at whatever SAP announced here at Sapphire it really, everything fits in this strategy so really excited to be here with you too. >> Well Roland we thank you so much for being part of enabling theCUBE to be in the NetApp booth here at Sapphire and we thank you for stopping by and sharing some of the things that you're working on. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend from SAP Sapphire Now 2018. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's the Cube, covering .NEXT Conference 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to the Cube, I'm here with Keith Townsend and I'm Stu Miniman. Happy to have on the program first-time guest Joe Zarb, who's with SAP Labs. He's the Vice President of Global Technology Partners. And welcome back to the Cube, long-time guest, Venugopal Pai, Vice President of Customer Success with Nutanix. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Great to be here, Stu, great to be here, Keith. >> All right, so Venugopal, our audience has seen him a few times. Joe, let's start, your role and inside SAP Labs what your organization does. >> Sure, happy to do that. So Joe Zarb, I head up our global technology partners within our global business development and ecosystems team. Basically helping our customers to respond to their needs and their wants for solutions that span not only SAP, but their whole digital transformation agenda. So we do that with the partners, and we do it with global service providers, we do it with software technology partners, and hardware technology partners. >> And Pai, we talked to Inder earlier today about customer success, but from an application standpoint, tell us why you're here. >> Of course, no thank you, Stu, thank you, Keith. Very good to be here again. So the reason that I'm here with Joe from SAP is we've had a long-standing relationship with SAP. Spanning almost four years. And the reason it's important is as Nutanix becomes the platform that customers start to depend on for the infrastructure, the key elements of what value we provide the customer is to mitigate a lot of the complexity that comes from infrastructure and allow them to focus on the business value of the application. And the predominant application as you start to global enterprises, large customers, SAP tends to be the lifeblood of that company. And the business value of how they drive value. So our partnership with SAP is to really make sure that as we start looking at transforming the data center and moving them to a digital platform that makes it very easy to consume, the ability for transcending the value to an SAP application, making sure that customers have that trust of, if I run SAP on Nutanix, the trust of availability, performance, capability, all the things that they need enterprise vendors to stand up to, we wanted to make sure that our journey with SAP started up early. Our journey with SAP in making sure they understand the concept of hyper-convergence and the impact of what it does for them has been a very fulfilling one and has been a journey that will continue on for a long ways to come. So that's why we're here. >> So, Joe, let's talk about digital transformation and the drivers. You know SAP, rich set of data is, I've heard it called a cash register of the world. So many transactions go through that. With that said, it's also one of those areas that we say, oh thoust dare not touch SAP. It is the system of record. However, it's a rich, rich area for digital transformation. The go fast, break things, part of the IT team, wants access to SAP, they want to get the data from there, they want to update transactions. Talk about that conflicting role that SAP has of, we're steady, rock solid versus go fast and break stuff. >> Right, so that's a great question. And what we're facing at SAP are demands that are coming from our customers around what people term as bimodal IT. They got to run their business, but they also have to innovate. So a big part of our strategy going forward is centered around HANA as you know, which is our real-time database, and it's a translytics database, right? So you could do transactions in it, you could also do analytics with the database within the same data set. So it provides a very powerful platform so that you could do your transactional operations and the analytics in a way where you could innovate. So that bimodal IT, and the relationship with Nutanix and the other hyper-convergent infrastructure players that we work with is really to focus on driving down the total cost of ownership in those operational areas, get to market quicker with those, and free up a technical center of excellence and functional center of excellence resources so that they can help the enterprise innovate. We have an entire platform that's dedicated just to innovation. It's our SAP Leonardo platform with our SAP Cloud platform, with Nutanix, and other hyper-converged players, and our transactional system. So that whole digital transformation really needs to take into account, hey, you got to protect the base, you got to run those core applications, but you can't take your eye off of innovation 'cause digital transformation's all about innovations. Business model reinvention as well as business process reinvention. So I think that's a big part of what we're focused on. >> So talk about Nutanix's role. How do you help customers with that goal of saying, the things that we do before are critically important, you need to keep doin' 'em, we need to do it cheaper, we need to do it faster, and we need to do it more reliably while we look to innovation. >> Absolutely. And I think that's a great story in terms of what Joe talked about in terms of SAP's lead into making sure that the ship is steady as it goes while making sure that the innovation engine is not forgotten, right? Where we start seeing is that the amalgamation between the two saying, I've got the traditional applications running as is, but I got to embrace innovation. And if we look at what Nutanix has done, and continues to do as you saw in some of the announcements at this event, is bringing the innovation in, but making sure that that innovation is brought with the respect of applications running in the data center, and still giving the customer the flexibility of hey, I want to embrace Cloud. I want to embrace the concept of what Cloud means to me, not just taking my data and moving it into the public Cloud, but giving me the way to get the Cloud-like heuristics, the Cloud-like management, Cloud-like flexibility, Cloud-like agility, the consumption of Cloud DevOps capabilities, so the combination of what we delivered in infrastructure layer, become where hardware to software, and tie it to what SAP is doing to drive that innovation from an application level is a very good partnership conversation to have, is hey, how do we now blend this software base in terms of what we're doing in the data center, and tie that to the innovation that SAP's driving at the application level, and together that's when true innovation for customers starts bringing to light. Because they focus the applications, we got the infrastructure, but this partnership then brings the two together. >> So, Pai, let's put some meat on the bone. It takes nine months, 12 months, to deploy SAP infrastructure period. Nutanix rack and stack, I can get a whole cluster up in less than an hour. However, there's still that SAP layer that basis layer that has to be laid out. How are you helping customers get more agile in that so that they wow the business? >> Absolutely. And just to put things in context, our SAP partner who has been around for four years, right? We've been SAP certified for 2 1/2 years, right? Both for SAP NetWeaver running on VMware hypervisors, and then as of a year and a half ago, running on our AHV hypervisor. So we're bringing that hypervisor innovation into the SAP world. Right, so that's one side. When you start looking at our software stack that start disseminating the focus on why things take so long for deploying an application is because the application layer is complex and the infrastructure layer is complex. So what we're doing is with the 40 to 50 customers you already have running on SAP is what we bring is if we can reduce the complexity of the infrastructure layer, the speed to value of deploying an application becomes much, much faster. So that's why customers are gravitating to Nutanix is because the infrastructure complexity has been eliminated as hey, it takes me six months to spin up a infrastructure that's meet variety of where they apply the amount of VM, which server, which storage, and you figure we're networking, and then I spin up the application. When we bring in Nutanix, the ability for us to disaggregate all that layered complexity that comes into play, speeds up the deployment of the application, therefore better time to value for customers saying, hey, I got to spin up the application a few months. I can't wait for nine months because the infrastructure's slowing me down. We start eliminating that complexity. >> Joe, one of the more interesting things to watch in the industry is the change in how customers are purchasing. Especially from software. The days of everything fully shrink-wrapped are long behind us. It's the subscription economy now. Nutanix is going along that journey from buying to software to fully subscription model. Can you touch on what you're seeing in maybe either you or Pai'll connect how that comes together with Nutanix. >> Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. So what we are seeing, and this is implemented in our strategy and our go-to market approach, is really that we live in a hybrid world. And I thought that that was a wonderful quote that I heard here at the conference or driven home in the keynote. So we do. We live in a hybrid world. SAP's strategy recognizes that. That's what our customers want. So we work very closely with Cloud partners like Microsoft Azure and Google, and of course Amazon and others. And of course we have an on-premise suite of solutions. So when we start to look at these business models, it's oftentimes about right-sizing the business model for the workload and the need of that particular customer sometimes for a particular industry. Now where Nutanix comes into play in this hyper-converged infrastructure is, there's some really difficult things that need to get done to make this world a reality. Right if you're going to move workloads and have them run in the Cloud, you might have them run at the edge if it's an IoT solution leveraging our Leonardo platform you might have them running in the core or you might have it running in a branch office. Every time you start adding those layers, you're adding complexity, you're adding cost, and you're adding a requirement for skills. So when we can work with close partners to downgrade the skills, downgrade some of the number of people you might need, create simplicity and create an environment where really it's a Nutanix statement but where our customers have that freedom to move their workload to the right environment to take advantage of it. Those are the partners who we want to work with. >> So SAP Labs, you can't get out of a Labs conversation without talking, well no we can't get out of a SAP Labs conversation without talking mobile and Fiori and all of the great stuff that's happening on just taking advantage of the deep data. Data's the biggest accessor, and mobile and giving that data to mobile, let's talk a little bit about the itch. What's the story between Nutanix, SAP, when it comes to stuff that CIOs care about today and that's Fiori. >> Yeah, so a great question. So if we look at Satyam presented yesterday in terms of our direction around IoT and looking at the edge as a very critical component of the entire operating system, enterprise called operating system model. One of the key things that we are spending a lot of time on is understanding the use cases for verticals and understanding okay when you look at a specific vertical, let's say it's oil and gas, or energy, or manufacturing, right? All of those verticals have a unique perspective on what IoT means to them. So IoT is a good buzzword and a good catchword, but when it comes to use cases and verticals, there's a very specific nomenclature on what they mean by IoT for them, right? So spending a lot of steam and Nutanix making a lot of time in deciphering what IoT means for customers, defining what use cases mean for that vertical and then working with SAP in determining okay, what does Leonardo mean for them because Leonardo is again, is a platform. Within the verticals, we're working with SAP and okay within the Leonardo platform, within the vertical, how do we define what our value prop within the IoT landscape is when it comes to the edge? And so you can see more coming from us, but we truly understand the importance of data like you said, and the creation of data at the edge, and the importance of analyzing the data, maybe in the Cloud. And that transformation of where the edge of data's created and where it needs to be analyzed, that journey is very complex. And if we can make that journey simple, then SAP customers win, SAP application, deployment wins, and we're able to therefore mitigate some of the complexity that comes with making that journey simple. >> You know I might add to that is again, what Pai said is spot on, but if you look at it from a manufacturing point of view, moving to the edge, customers are confronted with the reality of the networking complexity and they're either going to take the processing and move it to the problem or bring the problem to the processing. And so to do that takes hard work. And servers, and so there's a whole new genre of high-performance gateways and hardware that's emerging on the market from players like Fujitsu and Hewlett-Packard Enterprise and Dell, what have you. And you end up having a plethora of these devices at every well head, on every AMI, AMR meter-reading infrastructure in the utility system or in every single plant floor. So how do you take that level of innovation that's happening now at the plant floor and make it part, not only of your operational system, but of your IT and your data center so you could manage it with all the ilities that IT people do. And I think Nutanix and SAP are working to solve that problem. And our Leonardo platform is what we have to drive that edge and with Nutanix it's a very manageable environment. >> Great well, Joe and Pai, really appreciate the update on where you are today, where some of the direction are, we're going to the future. Getting towards the end of two days of live coverage here at Nutanix .NEXT 2018. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching the Cube. >> Thank you. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE special coverage of Sapphire Now we're here in Palo Alto. Sapphire now SAPs premier conference in Orlando. We are in Palo Alto, we have folks on the ground in Orlando. Special three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Taking you through all the action from our new studio in Palo Alto, 4,500 square feet. Our chance to cover events when we can't get there in person we certainly can cover it from here. And that's what we're going to be doing for the next three days; we're going to have stories on the ground, no story is too small. We're going to chase 'em all down. We have people calling in, we have folks on the ground that'll be Skyping in, calling in, whatever it takes to get the story out to you, we're going to do it and, certainly, expert coverage from inside the studio here. We got George Gilbert from Wikibon and a variety of folks who did not make it to Orlando will be coming into Palo Alto to sit down and talk with us. I'm John Furrier, my co-host is Jeff Frick. Jeff, we'll do whatever it takes. We'll cover from our studio, we'll go to Orlando virtually we got the Twitter hashtag, Sapphirenow, we're on that. We have folks on the ground, a lot of great news coming out of Sapphire. >> What do ya think? I mean, you were just as Dell EMC World last week and the story was all about, kind of, hybrid cloud and customer choice and it sounds like that's a recurring theme here at SAP, where they've got a lot of cloud options based on what their customer wants to do. >> I mean, if you, I mean this sounds really bad to say for someone who follows the tech industry but I just think this digital transformation thing is just over-played. But it's the, it's the Groundhog's Day moment. The movie just keeps replaying itself. Digital transformation, digital transformation, and, again, just like every other commerce, like Dell EMC World and every other one, digitally transforming your business is the theme. Little bit played, I would say business transformation is, I would say, the next chapter of what's happening and what you see from these shows. Specifically, at Dell EMC World, US ServiceNow, OpenStack, all the different events, Red Hat's been the one we been going to this past couple weeks is the business impact of the technology and SAP highlights that with their results and their keynotes in the news letter drops today, which is, look it, they have been doing SAP for all the top companies powering with SAP. As in Oracle. But now the customers want to go beyond the legacy SAP. And this has been a challenge for SAP over the past five years. They've had all the right messaging, digital dashboards, real time for business, all there. But the problem was they were missing a big piece of it. That is a cloud native and really aligning with the explosive growth of cloud computing, cloud native. Which is the new application developer. This new class of developer is emerging and that's different than the in-house SAP guys, by the way, which is still a massive market. >> Sure. >> That's the big trend. And of course, machine learning, AI, the kinds of design tooling that you'd expect to see, they're calling that Leonardo. >> I think it really shows the power of the consumer and the impact that the big public clouds have had on the marketplace, right? With Google, and with Amazon, especially Microsoft, as well, coming into play. And I think it's, what's interesting on the SAP tact is they have their own cloud. But now they've, you know, are very aggressively following up on an earlier announcement at Google Cloud Platform Show. With more announcements at this show and then they continue to strengthen their relationship with Amazon. So, it's a pretty interesting place, if you're an SAP customer, really having options around where, what cloud and what cloud deployment is really no longer an argument. You've got a lot of options at SAP, very different than Oracle, which is still pretty much exclusively Oracle on the Oracle cloud. Very different kind of a tact. >> Yeah and just reading the hard news from from hitting the ground today down in Orlando is the key points, I'll just summarize it real quick. Expanded SAP Leonardo, Digital Innovation System, SAP Google Expand the Strategic Partnership, SAP Cloud Platform accelerates adoption and proves choice advances consumption for customers. That, essentially, is it. And there's a lot of other subtext going on on Enterprise Cloud, a lot of other massive pockets. But in terms of top-level news, it's Leonardo, okay? Leonardo Da Vinci, dead, creative genius. Okay? But that is all about providing the tools for business to be successful in a digital world. But to me, the big story, Jeff, is the transformation of what used to be called HANA Cloud Platform to SAP Cloud Platform. This is their platform as a service bet around winning the new developers, the cloud native. Last year at Sapphire, we actually had theCUBE on the ground they announced a deal with Apple computer around iOS and developers. That, now, has chip as a general availability so you're seeing SAP bringing two worlds together. The Cloud Native World, which they never played in much to the SAP Eco System, which is flush with cash. There's a ton of money to be made in that world. The install base is massive, now you have Cloud-Computing Hybrid Cloud with the HANA Cloud Platform, I mean the SAP Cloud Platform to bring that in. Again, I still can't even get it right. >> And so, let's just break it down as simply as you can, John. Why do they change the name? And what exactly do they have today? >> Well, here's the first of all problem. I'm so used to saying HANA because they have been branding HANA on >> They been bangin' HANA for the decade, or forever. >> It's just like, in my brain. I just can't get it out. SAP HANA, so anytime, and they actually called it HANA Cloud Platform before. >> Right, right. >> But HANA is such a massive set of capabilities that they really wanted to break out the platform as a service, which is the Cloud Native play, where all the action is for developers. From HANA, a viable product that they have that everyone's using. So, they have two clouds that we can say. SAP Cloud Platform, that's in Cloud Native, and then, HANA Enterprise Cloud. One's a delivery mechanism and one's a developer environment; it's the way I like to think about it. I'm a HANA customer, I'm going to need Enterprise Cloud to take my HANA solution and extend it up with self-service or provisioning, some partnership with AWS Google and the different clouds, getting my legacy HANA Enterprise software to be cloud enabled. That's HANA Enterprise Cloud. SAP Cloud Platforms for folks who don't, who like DevOps, the Cloud Native world that we cover deeply. >> Okay, and then, how do you look at the kind of Google partnership, Google Cloud Platform versus AWS partnership. SAP's goin' dual-track, is it just simply to have choice based on what their customers, are they fundamentally different relationships? How do you read that? >> This is where I think SAP's got genius going on. But if they might screw it up because they can't get out of their own way. >> Jeff: Can't use genius anymore, we've had enough geniuses. >> So, so, this could be a brilliant strike of move for SAP. I think it's a brilliant move in the way they're playing it out. But, again, like I said, SAP, they might not be able to get out of their own way. That's going to be their issue. But from a functionality standpoint, this multi-cloud opportunity; they've been with Amazon for many many years. They announced a partnership with Google which is just kind of toe in the water. That's tryin' to advance pretty quickly. Not a lot of meat on the bone there. And Azure relationships. So, SAP wants to put their cloud platform, that platform as a service, in all the different major clouds so that their legacy can work on pram and in whichever cloud the customer chooses. >> Yeah, I think there is, >> I think, that is a multi-cloud strategy that is viable for SAP. Unlike, say, Oracle, which isn't multi-cloud, it's Oracle Cloud. >> Right, right, right. >> So, you know the SAP Oracle, you know, head-to-head thing has been kind of, like, taking completely different paths. Someone will be right. >> Right. But I think there's more meat on the bone with the Google thing than, maybe, maybe we know of, or are aware of, or whatever. I mean, Burnt did come and get in the keynote with Diane Greene at Google Cloud Platform. And, you know, I think it's relatively significant. What'll be interesting to see how it shapes out and, again, what are the customer choices that are going to drive them to Amazon or to SB Cloud or to the Google cloud. I guess at the end of the day it's about choice and I know that was a big theme at Dell EMC World. Is that everyone has to cater to the choice of the customer or else it's just too easy for them to flip a lot of these other clouds. >> I mean, when I say, "not ready for primetime," I mean, Google's got a lot of work to do. SAP as a company is not as far down the road with Google as they are with Amazon and Azure, just to make my point clear. >> Okay. >> But the do have our announcing additional certifications of the coinnovation between SAP and Google. Between SAP Cloud Platform and Google Cloud Platform. IOT, machine learning, they certified SAP NetWeaver in a variety of S4 HANA, business warehousing; essentially more market place to accelerate the digital transformation. And, again, this is all about SAP co-locating in Google. >> Right, right. >> If a customer wants to take advantage of TensorFlow and all the goodness of, say, Google. That's a good move for SAP and, again, I think this is a brilliant strategy for SAP if they don't screw it up. >> Right, right. And potentially, that's the bridge to, like you said, it's been a little bit of Groundhog Day with cloud, cloud, cloud. But what's really the theme of 2017 is AI machine learning and it's an interesting bridge with Google Cloud, to their TensorFlow as another way to bring AI machine learning into the application learning into the application. >> So, Jeff, we've been covering a lot of events. One comment, I will say, is that SAP always has great messaging. >> I got to say, because we've been covering out eighth year covering Sapphire Now. We've only missed, like, two years over that time span. It's a lot like Oracle on the sense that it's a very business oriented event, but they have good pulse. Bill McDermott, great communicator, great customer-focused person. Always has his hand on the pulse. They have great messaging. And they tend to pick the right waves. And they've had some false starts with cloud, they've bought, had some acquisitions, things been cobbled together, but they've never wavered from their mission. And the mission has always been powering the speed of business, great software solutions. The issue is, they're moving off of SAP to new cloud solutions, so SAP is taking a proactive strike to say, look here, we can play in the cloud, therefore this multi-cloud game is critical for the growth of SAP, in my opinion. >> How much of the SAP in cloud will be new greenfield opportunities, or people want the flexibility, and a lot of the attributes of cloud versus, they're not migrating old R3 instances into the cloud. I mean, this is, I would assume, mainly new greenfield opportunities. >> Well, I think it's both. I mean, I think you have greenfield developers basically that are being hired by their customers to build apps, top line driven apps, and also, you know, some consolidation apps. But mainly, you know, their customers are hiring developers. Hey, we need a mobile app for our business, so you need to have data, you need to have some domain expertise. But at the end of the day, the system of records probably stored in some SAP system somewhere. So what they're trying to do is decouple the dependency between that developer, but still use SAP, but and offer an extension of SAP. It really is an opportunity, in my mind, for that to happen, and also partners. Look at Accenture, Capgemini, all these different partners. They are poised to create some great value and make some cash along the way. Remember the minicomputer boom. People who lined their pockets with cash were the integrators. The large global system integrators. So I think that, and the channel partners are going to have a great opportunity to take advantage of preexisting legacy accounts and to grow them further. >> Well, they certainly have a giant ecosystem. There's no doubt about it. It's one of the startup challenges that, new company starters to build that ecosystem. I mean, they have a giant ecosystem. So, what are you looking for this week besides the obvious announcement? And kind of tells that you want to see to let you know that SAP continues to be on track and move with the shifting tides of the market trends? >> Well do me, I'm looking at the multi-cloud story. It's a good story. Not sure how baked it is, but from a story standpoint, I really like it. I think that whoever can really crack the code on multi-cloud in a viable way is going to be a winner. So to me, I'm going to be looking heavily at the multi-cloud stuff coming out of Orlando. I'm interested to see how the developer traction pans out. I'm really interested in following up on the Apple relationship and see how that pans out. And then ultimately, how the rest of SAP can transform as a business. Because SAP tends to have a lot of buzzwords, a lot of word salad, not a lot of, you know, breaking it down and orchestrating. So to me, SAP, where I'm critical of them is, they kind of can't get out of their own way, Jeff. So, sometimes they kind of get caught in that old world thinking when the world is moving very very fast. Look at Amazon Web Services, you look at what Google's doing, you look at where Vmware is changing. Vmware started Pat Gelsinger. He was in the dumps in 2016, now he's flying high. He went from almost being fired, stock had a 52 week low, to them soaring. They have a market cap that's greater than HPE. So these old incumbent like SAP, they have to transform their culture, get relevant, and get real. And if they can't show the proof points with customer wins and partners, and multi-cloud, then they're going to be on shaky ground. So that's what I'm looking for. >> Jeff: All right, so should be a good week. I'm looking forward to it. >> Okay, we are here in the Palo Alto studio, our new 4,500 square foot operation. We can do coverage here, and then have on the ground coverage of which we will be doing all week Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday for our SAP Sapphire Now. We've got great guests coming in, great editorial coverage. I want to thank our sponsors, SAP, for, you know, allowing us to do this and continuing theCUBE tradition at Sapphire Now. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. More coming after this short break.