>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston. It's the cube covering, empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle consulting. >>Welcome back everybody to this special presentation of the cube where we're covering the rebirth of Oracle consulting is a digital event where we're going out, we're extracting the signal from the noise. We happen today to be in Chicago, which is obviously the center of the country. A lot of big customers here, a lot of consultants and consulting organizations here. A lot of expertise. Mike Owens is here as a group VP for cloud advisory and the general manager of Oracle elevate. Mike, thanks for coming on the queue. Appreciate it. I'm glad to be here. So I can ask you elevate in your title, what is Oracle elevate? Yeah. Oracle elevate was actually announced Oracle OpenWorld last year and it's the partnership that we really had to actually take our scale to the next level. So we actually did it with a Deloitte consulting, so the goal is to actually take the capabilities of both organizations. >>Deloitte really has functional capabilities and expertise with an Oracle practice and obviously Oracle has Oracle technical expertise. The combination of the two really allows us to scale, provide sort of, I call the one plus one equals three effort for customers. Now you've got a decent timeline or observation over the past several years. I joined three years ago. Um, you were at some brand name companies. First of all, what attracted you to come to Oracle consulting? Yeah, absolutely. So Oracle was in the point where they were doing a lot of stuff around on-prem on premise software, right? The old ERP type stuff. They were doing cloud, they sort of had to have this sort of transformational moment. Um, I was asked to come in and Oracle consulting in the early days and say, Hey look, we're trying to transform the organization from on prem consulting over to cloud consulting. >>Come in and help us with this stuff that you've worked from your prior to cloud companies and help us really move the organization forward and look at things differently. So it's definitely been a journey over the last three years of taking it from really 85% of the 90% of our revenue around on-prem type of engagements to now actually splitting the organization being dedicated a hundred percent on cloud, which is just a huge transformation the last three years. What really, what's the underpinning of gen two cloud? Can you give us sort of the bumper sticker on that? Yeah, all of the underpinning the gen two cloud is really, if you look at the gen one, cloud was purely just an infrastructure layer. Gen two was really based on a segmenting security, which is a huge problem out in the marketplace, right? So we actually have a sort of a worldclass way that we take a segment security outside of the actual environment itself. >>It's completely segmented, which is awesome, right? But then the also when you actually move it forward, the capability of the entire thing is built on sort of the autonomous enterprise autonomous capabilities. Everything is sort of self healing, self funding or not, sorry, self healing and self-aware that continually moves it forward. So the goal with that is, is if you have something that takes mundane tasks back to that, you have people that are no longer doing those capabilities today. So the underpinning of that and what that allows you to do is actually take that business case and you reduce that because you're no longer having a bunch of people do things that are no value add. Those people can actually move on to do back to the innovation and doing those higher level components. So the, >>so the business case is really about, uh, I mean primarily I would imagine about labor costs, right? It labor costs were very labor intensive. We're doing stuff that doesn't necessarily add differentiation and value to the business. You're shifting that to other tasks, right? Yeah. And so the >>patients are really the overall cost of the infrastructure, what it takes to maintain the infrastructure. And that's broken up into kind of two components. One of it is typical power, physical location, a building, all those kinds of things. And then the people that do the automations that take care of that right at the lower level. The third level is as you continue to get, um, sort of, uh, process in automation going forward, the people capability that actually maintains the applications becomes easier because you can actually extend those capabilities out into the application. Then you require fewer people to actually do the typical day to day things, whether it's DBS, et cetera like that. So it kind of becomes a continuous stream. There's various elements of the business case. You could sort of start with just the pure infrastructure cost and then get some of the, um, process and automations going forward and then actually go that even further. >>Right? And then as organizations, as a CIO, one of the questions I always have is where do you want to end on this? And they say, well, what are you talking about? Right? It's really, you're, you're on it, you're on a journey, you're on a transformation. I go, this is the big boy, big girl conversation, right? Do you want to have an organization that actually, uh, is, stays the same from the head count standpoint? Are you trying to look to a partner to do the, where are you trying to get in your operating model? What is your company trying to get you to look at? Right? Because all those inflection points, it takes a different step in the cloud journey. So as an advisor, right, as a trusted advisor, I asked those herbs are half a dozen or so questions I would kind of walk your organization through on sort of a cloud strategy and I'll pick the path that kind of works with them. And if they want to go to a managed service provider at the end, we would actually prepare someone, either bring the partner in or have an associate department. We've heard it off too, but we put the right pieces in place to make sure that that business cake works >>well. That's interesting. That's a really important point because a lot of customers would say, I don't want to reduce head count. I want to, I'm starving for people. I want to retrain people. You know, some companies may want to say, Hey, okay, I got to reduce head count. It's a mandate. But, but most, at least in these boom times are saying, I want to shift. So by point to the business cases, if you're not going to cut people, then you have to have those people be more productive. And so the, the example that you gave in terms of making the application developers more productive as is relevant, and I want to explain this is that, for example, very simple example. You're, you're, I'm inferring you're going to be able to compress the time to value. You're gonna reduce your, lower your break even, you know, accelerate the time to positive cash flow if you will. That's an example of a value component to the business and part of the business case. The people look at that and is that absolutely, absolutely. >>That's what it is. Definitely the business case and when he call it the, you know, when you get your rate of return, right. Um, the more that we can compress that. And I would say back to the conversation we had earlier about elevate and some of the partnerships we have Deloitte around that, a lot of that is to actually come up with enough capabilities that we can actually take the business case and actually reduce that and have special other things we can do for our customers. We're on financing and things like that to make it easier for them. Right. We have options to make customers and actually help that business case. Some of the business cases we've seen our entire it organization saving 30 plus percent or if you multiply that on a, you know, a large fortune 100 that may have a billion dollar budget, that's real money. >>Yeah. And okay, yes, no doubt. But then when you translate that into the business impact, like you talked about the it impact, but if you look at the business impact now it becomes telephone numbers. And actually CFOs oftentimes just don't even believe it. But it's true because if you can make the entire organization just, you know, a half a percentage point more productive and you got a hundred thousand employees, I mean that is, that overwhelms actually the it business case. >>Yeah. And that's where that back to the sort of the steps in the business case is on the business and application side is making those folks actually more productive in the business case and saving them and adding, you know, whether it's a financial services and you're getting, um, an application out to market that actually generates revenue. Right. So that's, it's sort of the trickle effect. So when I look at it, I definitely look at it from a, it all the way through business. I am a technically a business architect that does it pretty damn good. >>Yeah. And it enables that sort of business transformation. How do you, let's talk about this notion of continuous improvement. How are people thinking about that? Um, cause you're talking a lot about just sort of self-funding, um, and, and, and self progressing in a sort of an organic entity that you're describing. How are people I >>think about that? Yeah. And I would say they're kind of a little bit older map. Right. Um, but I would say that the goal is what we're trying to embed back to the operating model we want to really embed is, you know, sort of the concept of the cloud center of excellence in as part of that at the end you have to have a set of functionality to have folks that's constantly looking at the applications and or services of the different cloud providers. A capability you have across the board. Everyone's got a multicloud environment, right? How do they take those services they're probably already paying for anyways. And as the components get released, how can you continually put little pieces in there and do little micro releases. Quarterly are, sorry, weekly, you know, every month versus a big bang twice a year. Right? Those little automation pieces continually add innovation in smaller chunks. >>And that's really the goal of cloud computing. And you know, as you can actually break it up, it's no longer the big bang theory. Right. And I love that concept, embedding that, whether you actually have a partner with some of the stuff that we're doing that actually we embed what we call like a day two services that that's what it is to support them. But Austin constantly look for different ways to include capabilities that were just released to add value on an ongoing basis. You don't have to go, Hey, great, that capability came out. It will be on next year's release. No, it could be next week. It could be next month. Right. >>Well, so the outcomes should be you be dramatically lowering costs, really accelerating your time to value. It really is what you're describing and we've been talking about in terms of the autonomous, you know, enterprise. It's really a prerequisite for scale, isn't it? >>It is. Absolutely right, and so when we use the term autonomous enterprise too, I love that because that's actually the term I've been using for a few years. Even before Larry started talking about the autonomous database, I talk about that environment of constantly look at an a cloud capability and everything that you can put from a machine earlier into AI under basically basically a bit let it run itself. The more that you can do that, the higher the value can you put those people off in a higher level tasks, right? That's been going on every provider for awhile. Oracle just has the capability now within the database that takes it to the next level, right? So we still are the only organization with that put that on top of our gen two cloud where all that is built in. Um, as part of it going forward, that's where we have the upper level really at the enterprise computing level, right? We can, we can work at all types of workload, but where we are niches is really those big enterprise workloads. Cause that's where we started from data enterprise. >>I didn't want to make it a technology discussion. But you said the only, only organization, you mean the only technology company with that autonomous database capabilities, is that correct, sir? Yes. Okay. So I know others sort of talk about it, but you know, Oracle I think talks about it more forcefully. We'll dig into that and uh, and report back. Mike, thanks so much for coming on the cube. Really appreciate it. Good stuff. Thank you very much. All right, and thank you for watching. We're right back with our next guest. You watching the cube. We're here in Chicago covering the rebirth of Oracle consulting. I'm Dave Volante. We'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> >> Welcome back everybody to this special presentation of theCUBE where we're covering the rebirth of Oracle Consulting. It's a digital event, where we're going out, we're extracting the signal from the noise. We happen today to be in Chicago, which is obviously the center of the country, a lot of big customers here, a lot of consultants and consulting organizations here, a lot of expertise. Mike Owens is here. He is the group VP for Cloud Advisory and the General Manager of Oracle Elevate. Mike, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> I appreciate it. Glad to be here. >> So I'm got to ask you, elevate, in your title, what is Oracle Elevate? >> Yeah, Oracle Elevate was actually announced Oracle OpenWorld last year. And it's the partnership that we really had to actually take our scale to the next level. So we actually did it with Deloitte Consulting. So the goal is to actually take the capabilities of both organizations. Deloitte really has functional capabilities and expertise, with an Oracle practice and obviously Oracle has, Oracle technical expertise. The combination the two really allows us to scale, provide sort of what I call the one plus one equals three, effort for customers. >> Now you've got a decent timeline or observation over the past several years. I think you joined three years ago, you were at some brand name companies. First of all, what attracted you to come to Oracle Consulting? >> Yeah, absolutely. So Oracle was in the point where they were doing a lot of stuff around on-prem, on-premise software, right? The old ERP type stuff, they were doing cloud, they sort of had to had this sort of transformational moment. I was asked to come in Oracle Consulting in the early days and say, "Hey, look, "we're trying to transform the organization "from on-prem consulting over to cloud consulting. "Come in and help us with this stuff "that you've worked from your prior two cloud companies, "and help us really move the organization forward "and look at things differently." So it's definitely been a journey over the last three years. I've taken it from nearly 85% of the 90% of our revenue around on-prem type of engagements, to now actually splitting the organization, being dedicated 100% on cloud, which is the huge transformation in the last three years. >> Yeah and so of course Oracle is a product company and your then CTO, Larry Ellison said, "We're going cloud first." And that happened during your tenure. You came in, I believe prior to that. What kind of effect did that have on the organization? I mean, we know from a product standpoint, but just culturally and just the mindset. >> Yeah, absolutely. It had a huge effect on the organization. They started splitting the organization to actually have be dedicated organizations, whether it's sales on product, whether it's support for product, pre sales support or our engineering and solutions architecture, and our consulting. So we've now split the organizations to primarily support those different lines of business, and what that allows us to do is actually focus that and put a lot of the stuff on cloud and moving the company a cloud first at this point. We still have a lot of organizations that do either on-prem type of work and things like that, they can't move over, that's supported, but you're going to see a larger shift of the cloud first, right? To actually move our customers and our organizations and back to what you hear a bunch of our executives talk about. We also actually use our own capabilities as well too. Whether it's AI or machine learning and the way we actually use it in our own HR systems. If I do my expense reporting, there's actually an AI bot that I can actually put stuff in there and automatically pulls it in. We actually take those capabilities and consume them ourselves because we have to believe in what we actually create as well. >> Your definition of cloud, of course, is different from the hyperscale cloud providers would say, "Hey, our cloud is hyperscale. "Put it in our cloud. "On-prem doesn't equal cloud." You guys don't buy into that obviously. Your definition is, it's the experience, wherever your data is, we're going to bring that cloud experience. Clarify that if you would. >> Yeah, I'll kind of give the Oracle version and what I've talked about for years for Oracle, or for cloud consultancy as a whole or cloud capabilities, right? So Oracle really looks at true enterprise capabilities. And it's kind of what I've been talking about for years publicly as well too. Cloud is really, when they say cloud, it's not just 100% in cloud, it's a combination that you pull from on-prem your systems and engagement. Your systems of record all get created together. Sometimes it's an ecosystem with another company, right? So the more connected we are, so cloud is really an enabler to sort of pull everything together, right? Oracle is really focused on a lot on the enterprise capabilities. Some of the other cloud providers do great on some of the systems of engagement, the smaller applications, what's sitting in someone's cell phone or hands all the time. Oracle is really around foundation of the database in data. So we start with that enterprise and come up versus creating that really snazzy application coming down to make it enterprise level. So we take at that approach. I look at cloud computing, and my definition is really different than most people and it's really around a way of doing business. And what I mean by that is, it's a business that's technology enabled specifically, right? So you have to change the way that you do business. The way that you engage with your customers, with their customers, right? The actual customer on the end line. Cloud capabilities really aren't changing your operating model, it's change the way that you organize, you govern. You can't just, if you take a great capability and move it forward, and then turn around and do it in the same way in process, that's where you lose the efficiency. If you talk about things like business case, where we see the technology itself as a standalone, will give 30% of that business case, changing the way that you operate and engage people, will actually give you the bigger benefit, right? So if you actually go forward and as we talked about a cloud transformation, not only is around changing the capabilities from the tool standpoint, it's your people and your skills and your operating model, right? So if you look at an operating model potentially has seven or eight dimensions depending on what organization you kind of talk to, right? Gartner or whatever. If you don't hit every single and understand the impacts of every portion of the operating model and make the change, you will not reap the benefits. >> And my litmus test is that experience has to be the same whether it's in your public cloud, whether it's on-prem, whether it's in a partner, multicloud, and that you guys actually came up with the notion of same, same. It took some time to actually deliver that, but do you feel like you're there now with customers that buy in and lean in? >> Yeah, absolutely. And so the concept of what I call your mess for less or picking it up and moving it over there, has no value. It could be the first step. So a cloud journey, it may give you incremental value, but it should be the first step in your journey. So if we talk about like cloud journeys, if you're going to say, no, it's the same, same, you're going to move it over there, that may give you back to the sort of the slope on the business case. That's going to give you an increment of that which should self fund then it to go okay, I'm going to take that, I'm going to decompose that. Okay, great. Now, I'm going to expand on that, I'm going to take that money to actually reinvest in automation, right? So if you move it over to infrastructure, right? Where are you going to get the automation, is really on the path's layer. All the services, the monitoring, the autonomous capabilities, all those kind of things, that's where you drive efficiency and scale. So you basically self fund with the infrastructure transformation with potentially, typical journey we see customers with right? As let's move it, let's use that funding to actually automate it, it gets more savings, we use that more for innovation. So it's kind of a continuous stream. You want to get to the point where you can actually have a continuous innovation stream. And what I mean by that is, you have a mechanism or a capability. If you look at our Gen 2 Cloud versus our Gen 1 Cloud. Gen 2 cloud actually can take advantage of all the capabilities that we have from the past layer through automation, right? And then as you do that, we actually want to have a continuous process where you constantly look for innovation and incrementally add pieces over time. It's no longer, it's a bing bing. It's just a continuous stream of innovation. >> So okay, so you've made the statement that the business case for Oracle Gen 2 Cloud is overwhelming. First of all, what really, what's the underpinning of Gen 2 Cloud? Can you give us sort of the bumper sticker on that? >> Yeah, well, the underpinning the Gen 2 Cloud is really, if you look at the Gen 1 Cloud was purely just an infrastructure layer. Gen 2 is really based on a segmenting security, which is a huge problem out in the marketplace, right Dave? So we actually have a sort of a world class way where we take this segments security outside of the actual environment itself. It's completely segmented. Which is awesome, right? But then they also, when you actually move it forward, the capability of the entire thing is built on sort of the autonomous enterprise or autonomous capabilities. Everything is sort of self healing, self funding, or no sorry, self healing and self aware that continually moves it forward. So the goal with that is, is if you have something that takes mundane tasks back to that, you have people that are no longer doing those capabilities today. So the underpinning of that, and what that allows you to do is actually take that business case, and you reduce that because you're no longer having a bunch of people do things that are no value add. Those people can actually move on to do back to the innovation and doing those higher level components. >> So the business case is really about, I mean, primarily, I would imagine about labor cost, right? IT labor costs, we're very labor intensive, we're doing stuff that doesn't necessarily add differentiation of value to the business. You're shifting that to other tasks, right? >> Yeah. So the big components are really the overall cost of the infrastructure, what it takes to maintain the infrastructure and that's broken up into kind of two components. One of it is typical power, physical location, a building, all those kinds of things. And then the people that do the automations that take care of that right? At the lower level. The third level is, as you continue to sort of process in automation going forward, the people capability that actually maintains the applications becomes easier because you can actually extend those capabilities out into the application. Then you require fewer people to actually do the typical day to day things, whether it's DBAs, et cetera, like that. So it kind of becomes a continuous stream. There's various elements of the business case, you could sort of start with just the pure infrastructure cost, and then get some of the process and automations going forward, and then actually go that even further, right? And then as organizations, as a CIO, one of the questions I always have is, where do you want to end on this? And they say, "What are you talking about?" All right? (Dave chuckles) And it's really-- >> You're never done. >> You're on a journey, you're on a transformation I go, this is the big boy, big girl conversation, right? Do you want to have an organization that actually, it stays the same from a headcount standpoint? Or are you trying to look to a partner to do the-- Where are you trying to get your operating model? What is your company trying to get you to look at, right? Because all those inflection points takes a different step in the cloud journey. So as an advisor, right? As a trusted adviser, I ask those a half a dozen or so questions, I would kind of walk your organization through on sort of a cloud strategy, and I'll pick the path that kind of works with them. And if they want to go to a managed service provider, at the end, we would actually prepare someone either bring the partner in or have an associated partner we paired it off too, but we put the right pieces in place to make sure that that business case works. >> Well, that's interesting. That's a really important point because a lot of customers would say, "I don't want to reduce headcount. "I want to, I'm starving for people. "I want to retrain people." Some companies may want to say, "Hey, okay, "I got to reduce headcount. "It's a mandate." But most at least in these boom times are saying, "I want to shift." So my point to the business case is, if you're not going to cut people, then you have to have those people be more productive. And so the example that you gave in terms of making the application developers more productive is relevant. And I want to explain this is that, for example, very simple example, I'm inferring, you're going to be able to compress the time to value, you're going to reduce, lower your breakeven, accelerate the time to positive cash flow, if you will. >> That's an example. >> Absolutely. >> Of a value component to the business and part of the business case. Do people at look is that real? >> Absolutely, that's what it is. Definitely in the business case and I want you to call it the, when you hit your rate of return, right? The more that we can compress that and I would say back to the conversation we had earlier about elevate and some of the partnerships we have with Deloitte around that, a lot of that is to actually come up with enough capabilities that we can actually take the business case and actually reduce that and have special other things we can do for our customers, we're on financing and things like that to make it easier for them, right? We have options to make customers and actually help that business case. Some of the business cases we've seen, our entire IT organization saving 30% plus. Well, if you multiply that on a large fortune 100, that may have a billion dollar budget, that's real money. >> Yeah, but and-- Okay, yes, no doubt. But then, when you translate that into the business impact, you talked about the IT impact, but if you look at the business impact now it becomes telephone numbers. And actually CFOs oftentimes just don't even believe it, but it's true. Because if you can make the entire organization just, a half a percentage point more productive and you got 100,000 employees I mean, that overwhelms actually the IT business case. >> Sure. Yeah, and that's where that back to the sort of the steps in the business case is on the business and application side is making those folks actually more productive in the business case and saving them and adding whether it's a financial services and you're getting an application out to market that actually generates revenue, right? So that's, it's sort of the trickle effect. So when I look at I definitely look at it from a IT all the way through business. I am technically a business architect that does IT pretty damn good. >> Yeah and IT enables that sort of business. >> Absolutely. >> How do you, let's talk about this notion of continuous improvement, how are people thinking about that? Because you're talking a lot about just sort of self funding, and self progressing, sort of an organic entity that you're describing. How are people thinking about that? >> Yeah, I would say they're kind of a little bit over their map, right? But I would say that the goal is what we're trying to embed back to the operating model, we want to really embed is, sort of the concept of the cloud center of excellence. And as part of that, at the end, you have to have a set of functionality of folks that's constantly looking at the applications and our services of the different cloud providers or capabilities you have across the board. Everyone's got a multicloud environment, right? How do they take those services? They're probably already paying for it anyways, and as the components get released, how can you continually put little pieces in there and do little micro releases quarterly or in sorry, weekly, every month versus a big bang twice a year, right? Those little automation pieces continually add innovation in smaller chunks. And that's really the goal of cloud computing. And as you can actually break it up. It's no longer the Big Bang Theory, right? And I love that concept. Embedding that, whether you actually have a partner, with some of the stuff that we're doing that actually embed what we call like a day two services, that that's what it is. It's to support them, but also constantly look for different ways to include capabilities that were just released to add value on an ongoing basis. You don't have to go, "Hey, great, that capability came out. "It'll be on next year's release." No, it could be next week, next month, right? >> Well, so the outcome should be dramatically lowering costs. Really accelerating your time to value. It really is what you're describing and we've been talking about in terms of the autonomous enterprise. It's really a prerequisite for scale, isn't it? >> It is, absolutely, right? And so, when we use the term autonomous enterprise, I love that because that's actually a term I've been using for a few years, even before Larry started talking about the autonomous database. I talk about that environment of constantly look at a cloud capability and everything that you can put from a machine earlier into AI under to actually, basically let it run itself. The more that you can do that, the higher the value. And you put those people off in a higher level tasks, right? That's been going on every provider for a while. Oracle just has the capabilities now within the database that takes it to the next level, right? So we still are the only organization with that. Put that on top of our Gen 2 Cloud where all that is built in, as part of it going forward, that's where we have the upper level really at the enterprise computing level, right? We can work at all types of workload, but where we are niches, is really those big enterprise workloads, because that's where we started from data enterprise. >> I don't want to make it a technology discussion but said the only organization. You mean the only technology company with that autonomous database capabilities. Is that correct? >> Mike: Yes sir, yes. >> Okay, so I know I should have sort of talk about it, but Oracle I think talks about it more forcefully. We'll dig into that and report back. Mike, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. I really appreciate it. Good stuff. >> Thank you very much. >> And thank you for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE. We're here in Chicago covering the rebirth of Oracle Consulting. I'm Dave Vellante. We'll be right back. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

from Chicago it's the cube covering Oracle transformation day 2020 not to you by Oracle consulting welcome back everybody to this special presentation of the cube where we're covering the rebirth of Oracle consulting it's a digital event where we're going out we're extracting the signal from the noise we happen today to be in Chicago which is obviously the center of the country a lot of big customers here a lot of consultants and consulting organizations here and a lot of expertise Mike Owens is here as a group VP for cloud advisory and a general manager of Oracle elevate Mike thanks for coming on the cube I appreciate it I'm glad to be here so I could ask you elevate in your title what is Oracle elevate yeah Oracle elevate was actually announced Oracle OpenWorld last year it's the partnership that we really had to actually take her skill of the next level so we actually did it with Deloitte Consulting so the goal is to actually take the capabilities of both organizations Deloitte really has functional capabilities and expertise with an Oracle practice and obviously Oracle has Oracle technical expertise the combination the two really allows us to scale provide sort I call the one plus one equals three effort for customers now you've got a decent timeline or observation over the past several years you joined three years ago you were at some brand name companies first of all what attracted you to come to Oracle consulting yeah absolutely so Oracle was in the point where they were doing a lot of stuff around on Prem on-premise software right the old ERP type stuff they were doing cloud they sort of had to have this sort of transformational moment I was asked to come in an Oracle consulting in their early days and say hey look we're trying to transform the organization from on-prem consulting over to cloud consulting coming to help us with this stuff that you've worked from your prior to cloud companies and help us really move the organization forward and look at things differently so it's definitely been a journey over the last three years I've taken it from really 85% of the 90% of our revenue around on Prem type of engagements to now actually splitting the organization being dedicated huntersam on cloud which is just a huge transformation last three years yeah of course I work was a product company and you're you're at your then CTO Larry Ellison said we're going cloud first and that happened during your tenure you came in I'd believe prior to that what kind of effect did that have on the organization I mean we we know from a product standpoint but but just culturally and just a mindset yeah absolutely it had a huge effect in their organization they they started splitting the organization to actually have be dedicated organizations whether it's sales on product whether it's support for product pre-sales support or engineering and solutions architecture and or consulting so we've now split the organization's to primarily support those different lines of business and what that allows us to do is actually focus that and put a lot of the stuff on cloud and moving the company at cloud first at this point we still have a lot of organizations to do either on Prem type of work and things like that they can't move over that's supportive but you're gonna see a larger shift of the cloud first right to actually move our customers and our organizations and back to wheats you hear a bunch of our executives talk about we also actually use our own capabilities as well to you know whether it's a our machine learning we actually use in our own HR systems if I do my expense reporting there's actually a I bought that I can actually put stuff in there and automatically pulls it in we actually take those capabilities and consumer ourselves right because we have to believe and what we actually create as well your definition to cloud of course is different from you know the hyper scale cloud providers would say our cloud is like per scale put it in our cloud on Prem you guys don't buy into that obviously your definition is it's the experience the weather wherever your data is we're gonna bring that cloud experience clarify that if you would yeah I'll kind of give the Oracle version and what I what I've talked about for years for Oracle R for cloud consulting as a whole or cloud capabilities right so Oracle really looks at true enterprise capabilities and it's kind of what I've been talking about for years publicly as well too is cloud is really when they say cloud it's not just 100% in cloud it's a combination that you pull from on-premise systems and an engagement you know your systems of record all get created together sometimes it's an ecosystem with another company right so the more connected we are so a cloud is really an enabler to sort of pull everything together right Oracle's really focused on a lot on the enterprise capabilities some of the other cloud providers do great on some of the systems of engagement the smaller applications that that's what's sitting in someone's cell phone or hands all the time Oracle is really around foundation of the database and data so we start with that enterprise and come up versus creating that really snazzy application - coming down to make it at a prize level so we take it that approach I look at cloud computing and my definition is really different than most people it's really around it's a roundel way of doing business and what I mean by that is it's it's a business that's technology enabled specifically right so you have to change the way that you do business the way that you engage with your customers with with their customers right the actual customers on the endline cloud capabilities really are on changing your operating model it's change and change the way that you organize you govern you know you can't just if you take a great capability and move it forward and then turn around and do it in the same way in process that's where you lose the efficiency if you talk about things like business case where we see the technology itself as a standalone we'll give 30% of that business case changing the way that you operate and engage people will actually give you the bigger benefit right so if you actually go for as we talked about a cloud transformation not only is around changing the capabilities from the tools standpoint it's your people and your skills and your operating model right so if you look at an operating model potentially has seven or eight dimensions depending on what organization you kind of talk to your right Gartner or whatever right if you don't hit every single understand the impacts of everything portion of the operating model would make the change you will not reap the benefits and my limit test is that experience has to be the same whether it's in your public cloud whether it's on pram whether it's in a partner you know multi cloud and that you guys actually came up with the notion of same-same sometime to actually deliver that but but do you feel like you're you're there now with customers that yeah that buy-in and lean in yeah absolutely and so the concept of you know what I call your master alas or picking it up and moving it over there has no value it could be the first step so a cloud journey it may give you informally but it should be the first step in your journey you know so if we talk about like cloud journeys if you're gonna say you know it's the same safe you're gonna move it over there that may give you back to the sort of the slope on the business case that's going to give you a incremental that would should self fund then a go okay I'm gonna take that I'm going to decompose that okay great now I'm gonna expand on that I'm gonna take that money to actually reinvest Automation right so if you move it over to infrastructure right where you're gonna get the automation is really on the pass later all the services in the monitoring the autonomous capabilities all those kind of things that's where you drive efficiency and scale so you basically so fun with the infrastructure transformation with potentially typical journey we see customers with right as let's move it let's use that funding to actually automate it it gets more savings we use that more for innovation so it's kind of a continuous stream you want to get to the point where you can actually have a continuous innovation stream and what I mean by that is you have a mechanism or a capability if you look at our Gen 2 cloud versus our Gen 1 cloud Gen 2 cloud actually can take an inch of all the capabilities that we have from the past layer through automation right and then as you do that we actually won't have a continuous process where you constantly look for innovation and incrementally add pieces over time it's no longer it's a Big Bang it's just a continuous stream of innovation so ok so you've made the statement that the business case for Oracle gen 2 cloud is overwhelming first of all what really what's the underpinning of Gen 2 cloud can you give us throw to the bumper sticker on that yeah all the underpinning magenta to cloud is really if you look at the Gen 1 cloud was purely just an infrastructure layer Gen 2 is really based on a segmenting security which is a huge problem out in the marketplace right a so we actually have a sort of a world-class way we take a segment security outside of the actual environment itself it's completely segment which is awesome right but then they also will you actually move it forward the capability of the entire thing is built on sort of the autonomous enterprise or autonomous capabilities everything is sort of self-healing self-funding are not sorry so healing and self-aware that continually moves it forward so the goal with that is is if you have something that takes mundane tasks back to that you have people that are no longer doing those capabilities today so the underpinning of that and what that allows you do is actually take that business case and you reduce that because you're no longer having a bunch of people do things that are no value add those people can actually move on to do back to the innovation and doing those higher-level components so the so the business case is really about I mean primarily I would imagine about labor cost right IT labor cost we're very labor intensive we're doing stuff that doesn't necessarily add differentiation and value to the business you're shifting that to other tasks right yeah so the big components are really the overall cost the infrastructure what it takes to maintain the infrastructure and that's broken up into kind of two components one of it is typical power physical location of building all those kinds of things and then the people to do the automations that take care of that right at the lower level the third level is as you continue to sort of process in automation going forward the people capability that actually maintains the applications becomes easier because you can actually extend those capabilities out into the application then you require fewer people to actually do the typical day-to-day things whether it's DBAs that are like that so it kind of becomes a continuous stream there's various elements of the business case you could sort of start with just the pure infrastructure cost and then get some of the process and automations going forward and then actually go that even further right and then as organizations as a CIO one of the questions I always have is where do you want to end on this and they say well what are you talking about alright it's really I'm late ever done you're on it and you're on a journey you're on a transformation I go this is the big boy big girl conversation right do you want to have an organization that actually it stays the same from the headcount standpoint are you trying to look to a partner to do the were you trying to get our operating model what is your company trying to get you to look at right because all those inflection points takes a different step in the cloud journey so as an adviser right as a trusted adviser I asked those herbs a half a dozen or so questions I would kind of walk your organization through on sort of a cloud strategy and I'll pick the path that it kind of works with them and if they want to go to a managed service provider at the end we would actually prepare someone either bring the partner in or have a little associate a partner we've heard it off - but we put the right pieces in place to make sure that that business cake works well that's it really important point because a lot of custom customers would say I don't want to reduce headcount I want to I'm starving for people I want to retrain people you know some companies may want to say hey okay I got a reduce headcount it's a mandate but but most at least in these boom times are saying I want to ship so buy point to the business cases if you're not going to you know cut people then you have to have those people be more productive and so the example that you gave in terms of making the application developers more productive is relevant and I want to explain this is that for example very simple you're I'm inferring you're gonna be able to compress the time to value you're gonna reduce you lower your breakeven you know accelerate the time to positive cash flow if you will that's an example of a value component to the business and part of the business case the people look at that and is that absolutely that's what it is definitely the business case and one we call it the you know when you get your rate of return right the more that we can compress that and I would say back to the conversation we had earlier about elevate and some of the partnership's we have with Deloitte around that a lot of that is to actually come up with enough capabilities that we can actually take the business case and actually reduce that and have special other things we can do for our customers or on financing and things like that to make it easier for them right we have options to make customers and actually help that business case some of the business cases we've seen our entire IT organizations saving 30 plus percent well if you multiply that on a you know a large fortune 100 that may have a billion dollar budget that's real money yeah but and okay yes no doubt but then when you translate that into the business impact like you talked about the ite impact but if you look at the business impact now it becomes telephone numbers and actually CFOs often times you just don't even believe it but it's true because if you can make the entire organization just you know a half a percentage point more productive and you get a hundred thousand employees I mean that is that overwhelms actually the IT business case yeah and that's where that back to the sort of the the steps in the business case is on the business and application side is making those folks actually more productive in the business case and saving them and adding you know whether it's a financial services you're getting an application out to market that actually generates revenue right so that's it's sort of the trickle effect so when I look at I definitely look at it from a IT all the way through business I am a technically a business architect that does IT pretty damn good yeah enables that sort of business absolution how do you let's talk about this notion of you know continuous improvement how are people thinking about that because you're talking a lot about just sort of self funding and and self progressing you know sort of an organic entity that you're describing how are people thinking about that yeah and I would say they're kind of a little bit older map right but I would say that goal is what we're trying to embed back to the operating model we want to really embed is you know sort of the concept of a cloud center of excellence and as part of that at the end you have to have a set of functionality of folks that's constantly looking at the applications and/or services of the different cloud providers at capabilities you have across the board everyone's got a multi cloud environment right how do they take those services they're probably already paying for anyways and as the components get released how can you continually put little pieces in there and do little micro releases quarterly aren't sorry weekly you know every month versus a big bang twice a year right those little automation pieces continually add innovation in smaller chunks and that's really the goal of cloud computing and you know is you can actually break it up it's no longer the Big Bang Theory right and I love that concept embedding that whether you actually have a partner with some of the stuff that we're doing that actually we embed what we call like a day-to services that that's what it is is to support them but us constantly look for different ways to include capabilities that were just released to add value on an ongoing basis you don't have to go hey they're great that capability came out it'll be on next year's release no it could be next week it could be next month right well so the outcome should be you should be dramatically lowering costs really accelerating your time to value it really is what you're describing and we've been talking about in terms of the autonomous you know Enterprise it's really a prerequisite for scale isn't it it is absolutely right and so when we use the term autonomous Enterprise - I love that because that's actually the term I've been using for a few years even before Larry started talking about the autonomous database I talked about that environment of constantly look at a cloud capability and everything that you can put from a machine or into AI under basically basically let it run itself the more that you can do that the higher the value you can put those people off in a higher-level tasks right that's been going on every provider for a while Oracle just has the capabilities now within the database that takes it to the next level right so we still are the only organization with that put that on top of our gen 2 cloud where all that is built in as part of it going forward that's where we have the upper level really at the enterprise computing level right we can we can work at all types of workload but where we are niches is really those big enterprise workloads because that's where we started from data Enterprise I don't want to make it a technology discussion but you said the only organizations meaning the only technology company would that autonomous database capabilities that yes sir yes okay so I know other sort of talk about it but you know Oracle I think talks about it more forcefully will dig into that and and report back Mike thanks so much for coming on the cube really appreciate it good stuff anything thank you very much all right and thank you for watching but right back with our next guest you're watching the cube we're here in Chicago covering the rebirth of Oracle consulting I'm Dave Volante look right back

(upbeat music) >> Reporter: From Chicago, it's The Cube. Covering Oracle transformation date 2020. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Paolo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only of the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here, Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte. And Don Schmidt is here, who's a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see ya, welcome. >> Good to be here, Dave. >> So Don, I want to start with you. Transformation, everybody talks about that. There's a lot of trends goin' on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah, I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody's been saying they want to get out of their data centers, though leaps haven't really been taking place. They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale of getting out of your data centers is now here. So we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost-efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so that they can move on with their day-to-day business? >> So data centers just not an efficient use of capital for your customers is what you're saying. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get onto innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power, cooling. >> Two very well-known brands, you guys get together. So what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists. And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud when you're trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate the situation? Why would you not partner with an organization if it does large business transformation, like a Deloitte? And so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with a business transformation, pull that together, and back to the one plus one equals three from a customer. That's what they really want. So how to we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application workloads. Our job, what we're really chartered to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations, just the opposite for what Mike just said. So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT. Business-led transformation is kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> So you just described what I would think of as wave one and as you keep peeling, you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have reorganizations. That's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> There's a lot of things you have to sort through and that's where the combined alvic program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools will help make sure we get this right. Deloitte has a product called ATADATA, Oracle has a product called Soar, they marry together properly into this transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right, as well. >> Take me through a typical engagement, typical, I know, in quotes, and then how long? Take me to the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> So we see two different spectrums on a transformation and it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic, dying hardware? Or do you want to take your time and make a little bit more of a transformational journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But in either one of those we'll come in and do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help put the customers through a business case, a TCO, how fast or how slow the journey needs to be for them, create what we call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those, over time, to get out of their data center. In parallel, we're going to be doing, as Mike was saying, around all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skillset for IT to have. They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel. And then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small, little group of safe applications and we can proof out the model works, move those into the Cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale that out at its large pace, get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> Do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that I can do to get started? Maybe do a little test case? Any particular offerings that? >> It's all under the program of Elevate. We've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market to genera, put that in it, as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> The JDE migration, so you've got what? Situations where people have just broken systems? >> Yeah, I would say it's more of a JDE modernization. So you have an organization, right? They may have a JD, a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really, it's older. They may be on version nine or something like that. They don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level of capabilities of Cloud computing: IoT, mobile, et cetera. So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach it together. We work with customers, depending on where they're goin' and going, "Hey, great, you can actually modernize "by taking it up to this version of JDE "through an upgrade process," but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure which allows you to tap into all those platform services, the IoT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various, kind of four major phases that we can do, or entry points with a customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has is a deep JDE and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together. Matter of fact, we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches, here and in our future. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me a lot of companies don't have their data driven. They want to be data driven, but they're not there yet and so their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos, and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives them from data to insight. Is that fair? >> Yeah, fair. Yeah, it's not just doin' reporting and dashboards, it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chain. >> Guys, two powerhouses. Thanks so much for explaining in theCUBE and to our audience it. Appreciate it. >> Appreciate it. >> All right, thank you everybody for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE from Chicago. We'll be right back after this short break. (soft electronic music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle consulting everybody welcome back you're watching the cube we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise it's a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry but the transformation of Oracle consulting and its rebirth Mike Owens is here group VP of cloud advisory and GM of Oracle elevate which is a partnership at Oracle announced last open world with Deloitte and Don Schmidt is here as a managing director but Deloitte Jets good to see you welcome good to be here today so don't I want to start with you transformation right everybody talks about that there's a lot of trends going on in the industry what do you guys see is the big gestalt transformation that's going on yeah I think there's an inflection point right now all right everybody who didn't say and they want to get out of their data centers the leaves haven't really been taking place right they've been kind of moving in small bits we're now at the point where large transformation and scale of getting out of your data centers is now here so we are here to try to help our clients move faster how can we do this more effectively cost efficiently and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day-to-day business so data center is just not a efficient use of capital for your for your customers no no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster cheaper and get on to innovation spend your money they're not on hardware floor space power cooling two very well-known brands you guys get together so what was the sort of impetus to get together how's it going give us the update on that front oracle has been really technology focused it was really created by technologists right and back to the point of what we're trying to do with the cloud you're trying to do larger transformation those aren't some of the skills that we have we've been brain and some of those skills in DNA but if you look at it is why would you try to recreate this situation why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like a toy right and so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with the business formation pull that together and back to the one plus one equals three for my customer right that's what they really want so how do we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move on a couple application workloads our job well we're really charted to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations so there's it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this and in our collaboration with two organizations just the opposite for what Mike just said right so the white wasn't really big in big IT right business led transformations kind of with toys it's been known for along with our cyber practice and so we needed the the deep skills of the technical experts so you just described what I would think of as wave one and then as you keep paling you got the applications you got the business process you might have you know reorganizations that's really weird guys have expertise right there's a lot of things out to sort through right and that's where the combined elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have we both have tools will help make sure we get this right right Deloitte has a protocol out of data oracle has a product called soar they marry together properly into these transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right take me through a typical engagement typical and their own quotes and then how long they take me through the point at which you get start to get business value what am I got to do to get there yeah so we see two different spectrums on on a transformation and that really aligns to what are your objectives do you just need to get a data center because you're on archaic dying hardware or do you want to take that take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum but yeah neither one of those will come in and we'll do a discovery conversation we'll understand what's in your data center understand what the the age or the health of your your data center is help the customers through a business case TCO how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them create will create call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their day Center in parallel we're going to be doing is my co-sign around all the operational aspects so while we're doing that discovery we want to start standing up there cloud center of excellence getting caught operations into their organization is it's a it's a different skill set for IT to have right they are gonna need to retrain themselves retool themselves in the world of cloud so we kind of do that in parallel now what we want to do is when we start a project we wanna start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can proof out the model works move those into the cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it it's a large space right get the IT savings get the cost cuts part of the organization so under the program of elevate we've we've got a couple of campaigns so the biggest one we we've been talking about is around the data center transformation so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together the next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to torquas cloud and then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market do - jinora put that in as well those are three major campaigns the jde migration so you've got what situations where people have yeah it's actually more of a jte modernization or okay so you have an organization right they may have a JD at JD e or JD JD Edwards instance that's really it's older they may be on version 9 or something like that they don't want to go all the way to SAS because they can't simplify the business processes they need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of cloud computing right IOT mobile etc right so as a modernization one of the things we're doing is an approach together we worth customers depending where they go and going hey great you can actually modernize by taking up to this version of jde through an upgrade process but that allows you to then to move it over to Oracle cloud infrastructure which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level then you can actually do the higher little analytics that sits on top of that so it's really a journey where the customer wants to get there's various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry with a customer on the jde modernization we kind of work them through so that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a DJ te and as well as Oracle consulting and we actually are going to market that together matter of fact we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches here at the inter future in the analytics campaign so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven you know they want to be data-driven but they're not you're not there yet and so their data is in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is breaking down busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that that drives their drives are some data to insights is that fair yet fair yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations and so the Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR finance and supply chain guys from powerhouses thanks so much for explaining in the cube and to our audience appreciate it Chris Dave all right okay thank you everybody for watching we're right back with our next guest you're watching the cube from Chicago we're right back right after this short break

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston. It's the cube covering, empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle consulting. >>Hi buddy. Welcome back. You're watching the queue. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation, not only the industry but the transformation of Oracle consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here, group VP of cloud advisory and GM of Oracle elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle alone announced last OpenWorld with Deloitte and Don Schmitt and Sierra was a managing director, but to like Jen. Good to see you. Welcome. Good to be here today. So Don want to start with you. A transformation, right? Everybody talks about that. Uh, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >>Yeah, I think there's an inflection point right now, right? Everybody has been saying they want to get out of their data centers. Um, the leaps haven't really been taken place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bets. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale of getting out of your data centers is now here. So we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business. >>So data center is just not an efficient use of capital for your, for your customers. >>No, no. There's lots of ways to do this all at faster, cheaper, um, and get onto innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware floor space, power, cooling, >>two very well known brands you guys got together. So what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on, on that front. >>Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologist, right? And back to the point of what you're trying to do with the cloud and you're trying to do larger transformation. Those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA. But if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like a Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back with the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want. So how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move on a couple application workloads. Our job we're really charted to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So there's, it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this and I, and our collaboration with two organizations, just the opposite for what Mike just said, right? So delight wasn't really big in big it, right? Business led transformation is kind of what Deloitte has been known for right along with our cyber practice. And so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >>So you just described what I would think of is wave one and then as you keep peeling, you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, you know, reorganizations. That's really what do you guys have expertise. >>There's a lot of things I have to sort through. Right? And that's where the combined, um, elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools or help make sure we get this right. Right. Uh, Deloitte has a product called added data. Oracle has a product called soar. They marry together properly into these transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migration's done right. >>Take me through a typical engagement, typical, I know quotes and then how long, like take me through the point at which you get start to get business value. What am I going to do to get there? Yeah. >>So we see two different spectrums on, on a transformation and it really aligns to what are your objectives, objectives? Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on her kick dine hardware or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? Um, but yeah, on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the, the age or the health of your, your data center is helping the customers through a business case, a TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them. Create what we call wave groups of how fast in we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. >>In parallel we're going to be doing as was Microsoft around all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their cloud, uh, center of excellence. Getting caught operations into the organization is, uh, it's a, it's a different skill set for it to have, right? They are going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel. And then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove out the model works, move those into the cloud. And then what we want to do is we want to scale that it at it's large pace, right? Um, let's get the it savings, get the cost cuts out of the, uh, organization. It was, so under the program of elevate, we've, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the, the biggest one we we've been talking about is around the data center transformation. So that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. Um, the next one is around moving JD Edwards, um, specific applications to, uh, to Oracle's cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market to, to genera. Put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns, >>the JDE migration. Um, so you've got what situations where people have just, >>yeah, and I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization or Hey, so you have an organization, right? They may have a JD at J D or J D J D Edwards instance. That's really, it's older. They maybe version nine or something like that. They don't want to go all the way to SAS cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that. But they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of cloud computing, right? IOT, mobile, et cetera. Right. So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach it together. We work with customers depending on where they're go and going, Hey great. You can actually modernize by taking it to this version of JDE through an upgrade process. But that allows you to then to move it over to Oracle cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get, there's various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with a customer on the JDE modernization. We kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE. Um, and as well as Oracle consulting. Um, and we actually are going to market that together. Matter of fact, we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches here >>and the analytics, uh, campaign. So it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven. You know, they, they want to be data-driven, but they're not, you're not there yet. And so their data is in silos. And so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is breaking down, busting down those silos, and then actually putting in sort of a, an analytics approach that, that drives their drivers from data to insights. Is that fair? >>Yeah. Fair. Yeah. It's not just doing reporting and dashboards. It's, it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so the Deloitte has some pre-configured, uh, applications, uh, for, uh, HR, finance and supply chain >>six guys, two powerhouses. Thanks so much for explaining in the cube and to our audience. Appreciate it. Alright, thank you everybody for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching the cube from Chicago right back, right after this short break.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering, empowering the Autonomous Enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Welcome back everybody to this special presentation of theCUBE where we're covering The Rebirth of Oracle Consulting. It's a digital event where we're going out, we're extracting the signal from the nose. We happen today to be in Chicago which is obviously, the center of the country, a lot of big customers here, a lot of consultants and consulting organizations here, a lot of expertise. Mike Owens is here, he's a group V.P. for cloud advisory and a general manager of Oracle Elevate. Mike, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Hi, I appreciate it, I'm glad to be here. >> So I got to ask you, Elevate in your title, what is Oracle Elevate? >> Yeah, Oracle Elevate was actually announced Oracle Open World last year, and it's the partnership that we really had to actually take our scale the next level. So it's actually did it with Deloitte Consulting. So the goal is to actually take the capabilities of both organizations, Deloitte really has functional capabilities and expertise with an oracle practice, and obviously, Oracle has Oracle technical expertise. The combination of the two really allows us to scale, provide, what I call the one plus one equals three effort for customers. >> Now, you've got a decent timeline or observation over the past several years. I think you joined three years ago? >> Yeah. >> You were at some brand name companies. First of all, what attracted you to come to Oracle Consulting? >> Yeah, absolutely. So Oracle was in the point where they were doing a lot of stuff around on-prem, on-premise software. The old ERP type stuff, they were doing cloud, they sort of had to had this sort of transformational moment. I was asked to come in on Oracle Consulting in the early days and say, hey look, we're trying to transform the organization from on-prem consulting over to cloud consulting, come in and help us with the stuff that you've worked from your prior two cloud companies and help us really move the organization forward and look at things differently. So it's definitely been a journey over the last three years. I've taken it from really 85 percent of, the 90 percent of our revenue around on-prem type of engagements to now actually split in the organization being dedicated 100 percent on Cloud, which is a huge transformation in the last three years. >> What really, what's the underpinning of Gen 2 cloud? Can you give us sort of the bumper sticker on that? >> Yeah, all about the underpinning the Gen 2 cloud is really, if you look at the gen 1 cloud was purely just an infrastructure layer. Gen 2 is really based on a segmenting security which is a huge problem out in the marketplace. >> Mm-hmm. >> So we actually have a sort of a world-class where we take segment security outside of the actual environment itself, it's completely segment which is awesome, right? But then they also, when you actually move it forward, the capability of the entire thing is built on sort of the Autonomous Enterprise or autonomous capabilities, everything is sort of self-healing, self-funding, or not, sorry, self-healing and self-aware, that continually moves it forward. So, the goal with that is, is if you have something that takes mundane tasks back to that you have people that are no longer doing those capabilities today. So the underpinning of that, and what that allows you to do, is actually take that business case and you reduce that because you're no longer having a bunch of people do things that are no value add. Those people can actually move on to do it back to that innovation and doing those higher level components. >> So the business case is really about, I mean, primarily, I would imagine about labor cost, right? I.T., labor costs that we're very labor intensive, we're doing stuff that doesn't necessarily add differentiation of value to the business, you're shifting that to other tasks, right? >> Yeah, so the big components are really the overall cost of the infrastructure, what it takes to maintain the infrastructure and that's broken up into kind of two components. One of it is typical power, physical location, a building, all those kinds of things, and then the people that do the automations that take care of that at the lower level. The third level is, as you continue to sort of process and automation going forward, the people capability that actually maintains the applications becomes easier because you can actually extend those capabilities out into the application, then require fewer people to actually do the typical day-to-day things whether it's DBAs, et cetera, like that. So it kind of becomes a continuous stream. There's various elements of the business case, you could sort of start with just the pure infrastructure cost and then get some of the process and automations going forward and then actually go that even further. And then as organizations as a CIO, one of the questions I always have is, where do you want to end on this? And they say, well what are you talking about? It is really-- >> Dave: We're never done! >> You're on a journey, you're on a transformation, I go, this is the big-boy, big-girl conversation. Do you want to have an organization that actually, it stays the same from a headcount standpoint? Are you trying to look to a partner to do the... Were you trying to get in your operating model? What is your company trying to get you to look at, right? Because all those inflection points takes a different step in the cloud journey. So as the advisor, as the trusted advisor, I ask those half a dozen or so questions, I would kind of walk your organization through on sort of a cloud strategy and I'll pick the path, to kind of works with them and if they want to go to a managed service provider at the end, we would actually prepare someone either bring the partner in or have associated partner we put it off to. But we put the right pieces in place to make sure that that business cake works. >> Well that's interesting, that's a really important point because a lot of customers would say, I don't want to reduce head count, I'm starving for people, I want to retrain people. You know, some companies may want to say, hey, okay, I got to reduced headcount, it's a mandate. But most, at least in these boom times are saying, I want to shift. So my point to the business case is, if you're not going to, you know, cut people, then you have to have those people be more productive. >> Correct. >> The example that you gave in terms of making the application developers more productive is relevant. And I want to explain this, is that, for example, very simple example, I'm inferring you're going to be able to compress the time to value, you're going to reduce, lower your break even, you know, accelerate the time to positive cash flow, if you will. >> Absolutely. That's an example of a value component to the business, and part of the business case. Do people look at that and is that real? >> Absolutely, that's what it is. Definitely, the business case and when you call the... You know, when you get your rate of return, right? >> Mm-hmm. >> The more that we can compress that, and I would say back to the conversation we had earlier about Elevate and some of the partnerships we have with Deloitte around that, a lot of that is to actually come up with enough capabilities that we can actually take the business case and actually reduce that and have special other things we can do for our customers around financing and things like that to make it easier for them. We have options to make customers and actually help that business case. Some of the business cases we've seen are entire I.T. organization saving 30 plus percent. Well, if you multiply that on a, you know, a large Fortune 100 that may have a billion dollar budget, that's real money. >> Okay, yes, no doubt. But then, when you translate that into the business impact, like you talked about the I.T. impact, but if you look at the business impact now it becomes telephone numbers. And actually the CFOs often times just don't even believe it, but it's true. >> Yes. >> Because if you can make the entire organization just you know, a half a percentage point more productive and you got 100,000 employees, I mean, that is, that overwhelms, actually, the I.T. business case. >> Yeah, and that's where back to sort of the steps in the business case is on the business and application side is making those folks actually more productive in the business case and saving them, and adding, you know, whether it's a financial services getting an application out to market that actually generates revenue. So that's, it's sort of the trickle effect. So when I look at it, I definitely look at it from a I.T. all the way through business. I am technically a business architect that does I.T. pretty damn good. >> Yeah, and I.T enables that sort of business transformation. >> Absolutely. >> How do you... Let's talk about this notion of continuous improvement. How are people thinking about that, 'cause you're talking a lot about just sort of self-funding, and self-progressing, sort of an organic entity that you're describing. How are people thinking about that? >> Yeah, I would say they're kind of a little bit all over the map. But I would say that the goal is what we're trying to embed back to the operating model, what we want to really embed is sort of a concept of the cloud set of excellence in as part of that at the end, you have to have a set of functionality of folks that's constantly looking at the applications and or services of the different cloud providers, their capabilities you have across the board, everyone's got to multicloud environment. How do they take those services they're probably already paying for anyways, and as the components get released, how can you continually put little pieces in there and do little micro-releases quarterly? I'm sorry, weekly? You know, every month versus a big bang twice a year. Those little automation pieces continually add innovation in smaller chunks and that's really the goal of cloud computing, you know, is you can actually break it up, it's no longer the big bang theory. And I love that concept, embedding that, whether you actually have a partner with some of the stuff that we're doing that actually embed, what we call, like a day two services that that's what it is, it's to support them but us constantly, look for different ways to include capabilities that were just released, to add value on an ongoing basis. You don't have to go, hey, they're great, that capability came out, it'll be on next year's release. No, it could be next week, it could be next month. >> Well, so the outcome should be dramatically lowering costs, really accelerating your time to value. It really is, what you're describing and we've been talking about in terms of the Autonomous, you know, Enterprise. Is really a prerequisite for scale, isn't it? >> It is, absolutely. And so, when we use the term Autonomous Enterprise too, I love that because that's actually the term I've been using for a few years even before Larry started talking about the autonomous database, I talk about that environment of constantly looking at a cloud capability and everything that you can put from the machine earlier into A.I., under to basically let it run itself. The more that you can do that, the higher the value, and you can put those people off into higher level tasks. That's been going on every provider for a while. Oracle just has the capability now within the database that takes it to the next level. So we still are the only organization with that, put that on top of our Gen 2 cloud where all that is built in, as part of it going forward. That's where we have the upper level really at the enterprise computing level. We can work on all types of workload but where we are niches, is really those big enterprise workloads 'cause that's where we started from data enterprise. >> I don't want to make it a technology discussion. We said they're the only organization, you mean the only technology company with that autonomous database capabilities, is that correct? >> Yes, sir, yes. >> Okay, so I know others sort of talk about it, but, you know, Oracle I think talks about it more forcefully? >> Yes. >> We'll dig into that and report back. Mike, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Really, I appreciate it, good stuff. >> Anytime, thank you very much. >> All right, and thank you for watching. We're right back with our next guest, you're watching theCUBE. We're here in Chicago covering, The Rebirth of Oracle Consulting. I'm Dave Vellante, we'll be right back.