>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. I have two IBM alumni with me here today. Please welcome Briana Frank, the Director of Product Management at IBM and Jason McGee is here as well, IBM Fellow, VP and CTO of the,IBM Cloud Platform. Brianna and Jason. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thanks Lisa. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> You guys were here a couple of months ago but I know there's been a whole bunch of things going on. So Brianna, we'll start with you. What's new? what's new with IBM Cloud? >> We--it's just, it's been such a rush of announcements lately, but one of my favorite announcements is the IBM Cloud Satellite product. We went GA back in March and this has been one of the most fun projects to work on as a product manager. Because it's all about our clients coming to us and saying, "Hey, look, we're having, these are the problems that we're really facing with as we move to cloud and our journey to cloud and can you help us solve them?" And I think this has been just an exciting place to be in terms of distributed cloud. This new category that's really emerging where we've taken the IBM Cloud but we've distributed into lots of different locations on-prem, at the edge and on other public clouds. And it's been a really fun journey and it's such a great fulfilling thing to see it come to life and see clients using it and getting feedback from analysts and the industry. So it's been a great a few months. >> That's good. Lots of excitement going on. Jason talk to me a little bit about, kind of unpack the cloud satellite from your seat which is flashing in Jason's background as an IBM Cloud Satellite neon sign I love that. But talk to me a little bit about the genesis of it. What were some of the things that customers were asking for? >> Yeah, absolutely. So okay I think as we've talked about a lot at IBM as people have gone on their journey to cloud and moving workloads in the cloud over the last few years. Not all workloads have moved, maybe 20% of workloads have moved to the cloud and that remaining 80%, sometimes the thing that's inhibiting that is regulation, compliance, data latency, where my data lives. And so people have been kind of struggling with how do I get the kind of benefits and speed and agility to public cloud, but apply it to all of these applications that maybe need to live in my data center or need to live on the edge of the network, close to my users or need to live where the data is being generated or in a certain country. And so the genesis of satellite was really to take our hybrid strategy and combine it with the public cloud consumption model and really allow you to have public cloud anywhere you needed it. Bring those public cloud services into your data center or bring them to the edge of the network where your data is being generated and let you get the best of both. And we think that really will unlock the next wave of applications to be able to get the advantages of as a service kind of public cloud consumption while retaining the flexibility to run wherever you need. >> Curious station. Did you see any particular industries in the last year of I don't want to say mayhem, but mayhem taking the lead and the edge in wanting to work with you guys to understand how to really facilitate digital business transformation because we saw a lot of acceleration going on last year. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's interesting cloud is fundamentally a pretty horizontal technology. It applies to lots of industries. But I think this past year especially with COVID and lockdowns and changes in how we all work have accelerated massively clients adoption of cloud. And they've been looking for ways to apply those benefits across more of what they do. And I think there's different drivers there's security compliance drivers maybe in places like the financial services industry but there's also industries like manufacturing and retail that have, they have a geographic footprint like where things run matters to them. And so they're like, "Well, how do I get that kind of remote cloud benefit in all those places too? And so, I've seen some acceleration in those areas. >> And one of the interesting things that I thought has emerged from industry focus is this concept of our FS cloud control. So we have specific control and compliance built into the IBM Cloud. And one of the most prevalent questions I get from clients is "When can I get those FS cloud controls in satellite, in all of these different locations?" And so we've built that in that's coming later this year but I was really surprised to hear every industry. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised I mean, every industry is trading money. So it's important to keep things secure but those FS cloud controls being extended into the satellite location is something I hear it constantly as a need no matter the industry, whether it's retail or insurance et cetera. So I think that the security concerns and being able to offload the burden and chores of security is huge. >> One of the things we saw a lot last year and along the security lines was ransomware. Booming ransomware as a service ransomware getting more personal. I talked to a lot of customers and to your point in different industries that are really focused on, it's not if we get hit by ransomware, it's when. so I'm wondering if that, if some of the things that we saw last year, or maybe why you're seeing this being so such a pervasive need across industries. What do you think? >> Absolutely. I think that it's something that you really have to concentrate on full time and it has to be something you're just maniacally focused on. And we have all kinds of frameworks and actually groups where we're looking at shaping regulation and compliance and it's really something that we study. So if, when we can pass on that expertise to our clients. And again, offload them. So not everyone can be an expert in these areas. I find that relieving. Our clients have these operational and security chores allows them to get back to what they want to do. Which is actually just keep inventing and building better technology for their business. >> I think that's such a-- I think that's such an important point that Briana is bringing it up too that was like part of the value of something like satellite is that we can run these technology platforms as a service. And well, what does as a service means? It means you can tap into a team of people who are the industry's best at building and operating that technology platform. Like maybe you've decided that Kubernetes and OpenShift is your go-forward platform as a business. But do you have the team and skills that you need to operate that yourself? You want to use AI. You probably don't want to become an expert in how to run like whatever the latest and greatest AI framework is. You want to actually like figure out how to apply that to your business. And so we think that part of what's really attracting people to solutions like satellite, especially now with with like the threats you described is that they can tap into this expertise by consuming things as a service instead of figuring out how to run it all themselves. >> Yeah. To that point. A lot of times we see really talented developers. I really like talking to incubation teams where they're building new and they're just trying to figure out how to create the next new thing. And it's not that they're not talented enough. They could do whatever they put their mind to. It's just that they don't have enough time. And they, then it just becomes, comes down to what do you really want to spend your time doing? Is it security and operational chores or is it inventing the next the big thing for your business? And I think that that's where we're seeing the market really shift is that, it's not efficient or a great idea and no one really wants to do that. So if we can offload those chores then that becomes really powerful. >> It does. Resource allocation is key to let those businesses to your point. We're going to focus on their core competencies innovating new products, new services, meeting customers where they are as customers like us become more and more demanding of things they are readily available. I do want to understand a little bit, Jason, help me understand. How this service is differentiated from some of the competitors in the market? >> Yeah. It's a totally fair question. So I would answer that in a couple of ways. First off, anytime you're talking about extending a cloud into some other environment you obviously need some infrastructure for that application to run. And whether that infrastructure is in your data center or at the edge or somewhere else. And one of the things that we've been able to do is by leveraging our hybrid cloud platform by leveraging things like OpenShift and Linux, we've been able to build satellite in a way where you can bring almost any-- infrastructure to the table and use it to run satellite. So we don't require you to buy a certain rack of hardware or a particular gear from us. You don't have to replace all your infrastructure. You can kind of use what you have and extend the cloud. And that to me is all about, if the goal is to help people build things more quickly and consume cloud, like you don't want step one to be like wheel in a whole new data center full hardware before you can get started. The second thing I would say is, we have built our whole cloud on this containerized technology on Kubernetes and OpenShift which means that we're able to deliver more of our portfolio through satellite. We can deliver application platforms and databases and Dev tools and AI and security functions all as a service via satellite. And so the breadth of cloud capability that we think we can deliver in this model is much higher than what I think our competitors are going to be able to do. And then finally, I would say the tie to kind of IBM's view of enterprise and regulated industries, the work Briana mentioned around things like FS cloud the work we're doing in telco. Like we spend a lot of our energy on like, how do we help enterprises regulated industries take advantage of cloud. And we're extending all of that work outside of our cloud data centers with satellite to all these other places. And so you really can move those mission critical applications into a cloud environment when you do it with us. >> Let's talk about some successes. Brianna, tell me about some of the customers that are getting some pretty big business outcomes. And this is a new service. And talk to me about how it's being used, consumed and the benefits. >> Absolutely. What I find a trend that I'm seeing is really the cloud being distributed to the edge. And there are so many interesting use cases I hear every single day about how to really use machine learning and AI at the edge. And so, maybe it's something as simple as a worker safety app or you're making sure that workers are safe using video cameras in an office building and alerting someone if they're going into a construction area and you're using the AI and all of the images that's coming, they're coming in through the security cameras you're doing some analysis and saying, all right this person is wearing a hard hat or not and warning them. But those use cases can be changed so quickly. And we've seen that. And I think I've talked about it before with COVID you changed that to masks. You could change that you could hook up the application of thermal devices. We've seen situations where machine learning is used at the manufacturing edge. So you can determine if there's an issue with your production of in a factory we're seeing as use cases in hospitals in terms of keeping the waiting room sanitized because of over usage. So there's all kinds of just really interesting solutions. And I think this is kind of the next area where we're really able to, and even partner with folks that have extraordinary vertical expertise in a specific area and bringing that to life at the edge and being able to really process that data at the edge so that there's very little latency. And then also you're able to change those use cases so quickly because you're really consuming cloud native best practices in cloud. Cloud services at the edge. So you're not having to install and manage and operate those services at the edge it's done for you. >> I'd mentioned changing the ability to change use cases so quickly in a year that plus that we've seen so much dynamics and pivoting is really key for businesses in any industry Brianna. >> I agree. And that's the thing. There hasn't been one particular industry. I think of course we do see a lot in the financial services industry, just probably cause we're IBM, but in every industry, we see retail, it's interesting to see sporting goods companies want to have pop-up shops at a specific sporting events. And how do you have a van that is a sporting good shop but it's just there temporarily. And how do you have a satellite location in the van? So there's really interesting use cases that have emerge just over time due to the need to have this capability at the edge. >> Yeah. Necessity is the mother of invention, as they say right? Well, thank you both so much for stopping by and sharing what's going on with IBM Cloud Satellite, the new service, the new offerings, the opportunities in it for customers. I'm sure it's going to be another exciting year for IBM cause you clearly have been very busy. Thank you both for stopping by the program. >> Thank you. >> Thanks so much Lisa. >> For Briana Frank and Jason McGee. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE. Live coverage of IBM Think. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. We're not yet in real life. We're doing another remote interviews with two great guests Cube Alumni. Of course, I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE. We've got Jason McGee, IBM fellow VP and CTO of IBM's cloud platform and Octavian the Nazis senior vice president Hybrid Cloud engineering at NetApp. Both Cube alumni, is great to see you both. Thanks for coming on theCUBE >> Yeah, great to be here. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we were just talking before we came on camera that, it feels like we've had this conversation, a long time ago we have, Hybrid Cloud has been on a trajectory for both of you guys in many times on theCUBE. So now it's mainstream, it's here in the real world. Everyone gets it. There's no real debate. Now multicloud that's people are debating that which means that's right around the corner. So Hybrid Cloud is here and now Jason this is really the focus. And this is also brings together the NetApp in your partnership and talk about the relationship first with Hybrid Cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, you know look we've talked a number of times together. I think in the industry, maybe a few years ago people were debating whether Hybrid Cloud was a real thing. We don't have that conversation anymore. I think, you know, enterprises today, especially maybe in the face of COVID and kind of how we work differently now realize that their cloud journey is going to be a mix of on-prem and off-prem systems probably going to be a mix of multiple public cloud providers. And what they're looking for now is how do I do that? And how do I manage that hybrid environment? How do I have a consistent platform across the different environments I want to operate in? And then how do I get more and more of my workload into those environments? And it's been interesting. I think the first waves of cloud were infrastructure centric and externally application focused they were easier things. And now we're moving into more mission critical more stateful, more data oriented workloads. And that brings with a new challenges on where applications run and how we leverage the club. >> Octavian, you guys had a great relationship with IBM over the years, data centric company NetApp has always been great engineering team. You're on the cloud, Hybrid Cloud engineering. What's the current status of the relationship. Give us an update on how it's vectoring into the Hybrid Cloud since you're a senior vice president of Hybrid Cloud engineering. >> Well, so first of all, I want to recognize 20 years of a successful partnership with IBM. I think NetApp and IBM have been companies that have embraced digital transformation and technology trends to enable that digital transformation for our customers. And we've been very successful. I think there is a very strong joint Hybrid Cloud value proposition for customers on NetApps storage and data services compliment what IBM does in terms of products and solutions both for on-premise deployments in the cloud. I think together we can build more complete solutions, solutions that span data mobility, data governance for the new workrooms that Jason has talked about. >> And how has some of the customer challenges that you're seeing obviously software defined networking software defined storage, DevOps is now turned into DevSecOps. So you have now that programmability requirement with for dynamic applications, applications driven, infrastructure, all these buzz words point to one thing, the infrastructure has to be resilient and respond to the applications. >> Yeah, I would say infrastructure will continue to be top of mind for everybody, whether they're building a private cloud or whether they we're trying to leverage, something like IBM cloud. I think, you know, people want to consume, infrastructure is an API. I think they want to simplicity, security. I think they want to manage their costs very well. I think we're very proud to be partnering with IBM cloud to build such capabilities. >> Jason how are you guys helping some of these customers as they look at new things and sometimes retrofitting and refactoring previous stuff during transforming, but also innovating at the same time. There's a lot of that going on. What are you guys doing to help with the Hybrid challenges? >> Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of dimensions to that problem but the one that I think has been kind of most interesting over the last year has been how kind of the consumption model of public cloud, API driven, self service, capabilities operated for you how that consumption model is starting to spread because I think one of the challenges with hybrid and one of the challenges as customers are looking at these, more mission critical data centric kind of workloads was well, I can't always move that application to the public cloud data center or I need that application to live out on the network, closer to my end users. So, you know, out where data is being generated, maybe in an IOT context and when you had those requirements you had to kind of switch operating models. You, you had to kind of move away from a public cloud service consumption model to a software deployment model. And we have a common platform and things like open shift that can run everywhere but the missing piece was how do I consume everything as a service everywhere? And so recently we launched this thing called IBM been satellite, which we've been working with Octavian and his team on, on how we can actually extend the public cloud experience back into the data center, out to the edge and allow people to kind of mix both location flexibility with public cloud consumption. And when you do that, you of course running a much more diverse infrastructure environment. You have to integrate with different storage environments and you wind up with like multi-tiered applications you know, some stuff on the edge and some stuff in the core. And so data replication and data management start to become really interesting because you're kind of distributing your workloads across this complex environment. >> Here we've seen that relationship between compute and storage change a lot over the past decade as the evolution goes. Octavian, I got to ask you this is critical path for companies. They want the storage ready infrastructure. You guys have been doing that for many decades pardon me with IBM, for sure. But now they're all getting Hybrid Cloud big time and it's not, it's attributed computing. It's what it is. It's the operating model. When someone asks you guys what your capabilities are how do you answer that in today's world? Because you have storage as well known. You got a great product people know that. But what is NetApp's capabilities? When I say I'm going all in and Hybrid Cloud complete changeover. >> So what we have been doing is basically rewriting a lot of our software with a few design points in mind. The software-defined has been definitely one of the key design points. The second is the Hybrid Cloud in the containerization of our operating systems. So they can run both in traditional environments as well as in the cloud. I think the last thing that we wanted to do it's enabled the speed of scale. And that has been by building, you know intrinsically in the product, both support or in also using Kubernetes as an infrastructure to achieve that agility, that scale. >> So how about this data fabric vision? Because to me, this is comes up all the time in my conversations with practitioners the number one problem at their, and problem that they're to solve in the conversation tends to I hear what was that control plane Kubernetes, horizontally scalable this all points to data being available., So how do you create that availability? What is data fabric mean? What does all this mean in a hybrid context? >> Well if you think about it, data fabric it's a Hybrid Cloud concept, right? This is about enabling data governance, data, mobility data security in an environment where some of the applications were run on premises or at the edge or the smart edge and many of the, perhaps data links and analytics, and services, rich services will be in a central locations or many or perhaps some large know data centers. So you need to have, the type of capabilities data services to enable that mobility that governance, that security across this continuum that spans the edge, the core and the cloud. >> Jason, you mentioned satellite before Cloud Satellite. Could you go into more detail on that? I know it's kind of a new product, what is that about and tell me what's the benefits and why is it exist and what problems does it solve? >> Yeah, so in the most simple terms, Cloud Satellite is the capability to extend IBM's, public cloud into on-prem infrastructure at the edge or in a multicloud context to other public cloud infrastructures. And so you can consume all the services in the public cloud that you need to to build your application, OpenShift as a service database, as DevTools, AI capabilities instead of being limited to only being able to consume those services in IBM's re you know, cloud regions you can now add your private data center or add your Metro provider, or add your AWS or Azure accounts and now consume those services consistently across all those environments. And that really allows you to kind of combine the benefits of public cloud with kind of location independence you see in hybrid and lets us solve new problems. Like, you know, it's really interesting. We're seeing like AI and data being a primary driver. You know I need my application to live in a certain country or to live next to my mainframe or to live like, in a Metro because all of my, I'm doing like video analytics on a bunch of cameras and I'm not going to stream all that data back to halfway across the country to some cloud region. And so it lets you extend out in that way. And when you do that, of course, you now move the cloud into a more diverse infrastructure environment. And so like we've been working with NetApp on how do we then expose NetApp storage into this environment when I'm running in the data center or I'm running at the edge and I need to store that data replicate the data, secure it. Well, how do I kind of plug those two things together? I think John, at the beginning you kind of alluded to this idea of, things are becoming more application centric, right? And we're trying to run a IT architecture that's more centered around the application. Well, by combining clouds knowledge of kind of where everything's running with that common platform like OpenShift with Kubernetes aware of data fabric and storage layer, you really can achieve that. You can have an application centric kind of management that spans those environments. >> Yeah, I'm want to come back to that whole impact on IT because this has come up as a major theme here. Think at the it transformation is going to be more about cloud scale, but I want to get to Octavian on the satellite on NetApp's role and how you compliment that. How do you guys fit in? He just mentioned that you guys are playing with Cloud Satellite. Obviously this looks like an operating model. How does NetApp fit in. >> Simply put we extend and enable the capabilities that IBM satellite platform provides. I think Jason referred to the storage aspects and you know what we are doing it's enabling not only storage but rich data services around new theory based on temperature, or replicated snapshots or capabilities around, you know, caching, high availability, encryption and so forth. So we believe that our technology integrate very well with red hat openShift and the Kubernetes aspect enable the application mobility in that translation of really distributed computing at scale, from the traditional data center to the edge and to the massive Ops that IBM is building. >> You know, I got to say, but watching you guys work together for many decades now and covering you with theCUBE for the past 10 years or 11 years now been a great partnership. I got to say one thing, that's obvious to me and our team and mainly the world is now you've got a new CEO over at IBM you have a Cloud Focus that's on unwavering. Arvind loves the cloud we all know that. Ecosystems are changing without, you already had a big ecosystem and partnerships. Now it seems to be moving to a level where you got to have that ecosystem really thrive in the cloud. So I guess we'll use the last couple of minutes. If you guys don't mind explaining how the IBM NetApp relationship in the new context of this new partnership new ecosystem or a new kind of world helps customers and how you guys are working together. >> Yeah, I mean, I could start, I mean I think you're right, that cloud is all about platforms and about kind of the overall environment people operate in and the ecosystem is really critical. And I think things like satellite have given us new ways to work together. I mean, IBM and NetApp, as we said I've been working together for a long time. We rely on them all in our public cloud, for example, in our storage tiers. But with the kind of idea of distributed cloud in the boundaries of public cloud spreading to all of these new environments, those were just new places where we can build really interesting valuable integrations for our clients so that they can deal with data, deal with these more complex apps, in all the places that they exist. So I think it's been actually really exciting to kind of leverage that opportunity to find, new ways to work together and deliver solutions for our clients. >> Octavian. >> I will say that data is the ecosystem and we all know that there's more data right now being created outside of the traditional data center be it in the cloud or at the edge. So our mission is to enable that, Hybrid Cloud or data mobility and enabled persistence rich data, storage services, whatever data is being created. I think IBM's new satellite platform, comes in and broadens the aperture of people being able to consume IBM's services at the edge and or a remote office and I think that's very exciting. >> You guys are both experts and solely season executives to DevOps, DevSecOps, DataOps, whatever you want to call data's here, ecosystems. Guys thanks for coming on theCUBE Really appreciate the insight. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, IBM Think CUBE coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music) (tranquil music)

>>from >>around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of IBM Think >>2021 >>brought to you by IBM. >>Hey, welcome to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm lisa martin, I have to IBM alumni with me here today please welcome Brianna frank the director of product management at IBM and Jason McGee is here as well. IBM fellow VP and Cto of the IBM cloud platform, Brianna and Jason welcome back to the cube. >>Thank you so much for having us, >>you guys were here a couple months ago, but I know there's been a whole bunch of things going on. So Brianna, we'll start with you, what's new, what's new with IBM cloud? >>We are, it's just, it's been such a rush of announcements lately, but one of my favorite announcements uh, is the IBM cloud satellite product. We went g a back in March and you know, this has been one of the most fun projects to work on as a product manager because you know, it's all about our clients coming to us and saying, hey look, we're having these are the problems that we're really facing with as we, as we move to cloud in our journey to cloud and can you help us solve them? And I think this has been just an exciting place to be in terms of distributed cloud, this new category that's really emerging where we've taken the IBM cloud, but we've distributed into lots of different locations on prem at the edge and on other public clouds. And it's been a really fun journey and it's such a great fulfilling thing to see it come to life and see clients using it and getting feedback from analysts and um in the industry. So it's been a, it's been a great, you know, a few months. >>That's good. Lots of excitement going on. Jason talk to me a little bit about kind of unpack uh, the cloud satellite from, you see what flashing in Jason's background is an IBM cloud satellite. Me, I'm sorry, I love that. You talk to me a little bit about the genesis of it. What were some of the things that customers were asking for? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so, so look, I think as we've talked about a lot of IBM, you know, as as people have gone on their journey to cloud and been moving workloads in the cloud over the last few years, um, you know, not all workloads have moved right. Maybe 20 of workloads have moved to the cloud and that remaining 80% sometimes that thing that's inhibiting that is regulation compliance data late and see where my data lives. And so people have been kind of struggling with, how do I get the kind of benefits and speed and agility to public cloud, But apply it to all these applications that maybe need to live in my data center or need to live on the edge of the network close to my users or need to live where the data is being generated or in a certain country. And so the genesis of satellite was really to take our hybrid strategy and combine it with the public cloud consumption model and really allow you to have public cloud anywhere you needed it, bring those public cloud services into your data center or bring them to the edge of the network where your data is being generated and let you get the best of both. And we think that really will unlock, you know, the next wave of applications to be able to get the advantages of as a service kind of public consumption um, while retaining the flexibility to run wherever you need, >>curious station, did you see any particular industries in the last year of, I don't want to say mayhem, but you know, mayhem taking really the lead and the edge in wanting to work with you guys to understand how to really facilitate digital business transformation, because we saw a lot of acceleration going on last year. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's interesting. Cloud is fundamentally pretty horizontal technology. It applies to lots of industries, but I think the past year, especially, um, with, you know, Covid and lockdowns and changes in how we all work have accelerated massively, um, clients adoption of cloud. Um, and they've they've been looking for ways to apply those benefits across more of what they do. All right. And, and I think there's different drivers, you know, there's, you know, security compliance drivers, maybe in, in places like the financial services industry, but there's also the industries like manufacturing and retail that have, you know, they have a geographic footprint, like where things run matters to them. And so they're like, well, how do I get that kind of remote cloud benefit in all those places too. And so I've seen some acceleration in those areas. >>And one of the interesting things that I thought has emerged from an industry focus is this concept of RFs file control. So we have specific control and compliance built into the IBM cloud and one of the most prevalent questions I get from clients, you know, when can I get this FSL controls in satellite, you know, in all of these different locations. And so we built that in that's coming later this year. But I was really surprised to hear every industry and I guess it shouldn't be surprised. I mean every, every industry is trading money so it's important to keep things secure. But those fs cloud controls being extended into the satellite location is something I hear constantly as a need no matter the industry, whether it's, you know, retail or insurance, you know, etcetera. So I think that the security concerns and being able to offload the burden and chores of security is, is huge. >>One of the things we saw a lot last year, Brianna along the security lines is was ransomware booming, ransomware is a service, ransomware getting more personal. Talk to a lot of customers and to your point in different industries that are really focused on, it's not if we get hit by ransomware, it's when. So I'm wondering if that if some of the things that we saw last year or maybe why you're saying this being so such a pervasive need across industries, what do you think? >>Absolutely. I think that it's something that you really have to concentrate on full time and you know, it has to be something you're just maniacally focused on. And we have all kinds of frameworks and actually, uh, groups where we're looking at shaping regulation and compliance and it's really something that we study. Um, so if when we can pass on that expertise to our clients and again offload them. So, you know, not everyone can be an expert in these areas. I find that, you know, relieving, you know, our clients of these operational security tours allows them to get back to what they want to do, which is actually just keep inventing and building better technology for their business. >>I think that's such a, I think that's such an important point that brand is bringing up to those like part of the value of something like satellite is that we can we can run these technology platforms as a service. Right. And well, what does that? The service means? It means you can tap into a team of people who are the industry's best at building and operating that technology platform, right? Like maybe you've decided that, you know, kubernetes and open shift is your go for or platform as a business, but do you have the team and the skills that you need to operate that yourself? You know, you want to use a I you probably don't want to become an expert in how to run like whatever the latest and greatest ai framework is, you want to actually like figure out how to apply that to your business. And so we think that part of what's really attracting people to solutions like satellite, especially now with the threat you described is that they can tap into this expertise by consuming things as a service instead of figuring out how to round all themselves >>to that point. A lot of times we see really talented developers, I really like talking to incubation teams where there, you know, they're building new and they're just trying to figure out how to create, you know, the next new thing and um, it's not that they're not talented enough, they could do whatever they put their mind to, it's just that they don't have enough time and they, you know, then it just becomes too, comes down to, you know, what do you really want to spend your time doing? Is it, you know, security and operational chores, or is it inventing the next big thing for your business? And I think that that's where we're seeing the market really shift, is that, you know, it's not efficient or you know, um you know, a great idea and really no one wants to do that, you know, so we can over, if we can offload those chores, then that becomes really powerful. >>It does resource allocation is key to let those businesses to your point, we're gonna focus on their core competencies, innovating new products, new services, meeting customers where they are as customers like us become more and more demanding of things being readily available. I do want to understand a little bit, Jason, help me understand how this service is differentiated from some of the competitors in the market. >>Yeah, it's a it's a totally fair question. Um so I would answer that in a couple of ways. Um first off, you know, anytime you're talking about extending a cloud into some other environment, you obviously need some infrastructure for that application to run on whether the infrastructure is in your data center or at the edge or somewhere else. And one of the things that we've been able to is by leveraging our hybrid cloud platform by leveraging things like open shift and Lennox, we've been able to build satellite in a way where you can bring almost any clinics infrastructure to the table and use it to run satellite. So we don't require you to buy a certain lack of hardware or particular gear from us. You don't have to replace all your infrastructure. You can kind of use what you have and extend the cloud and that to me is all about, you know, if the goal is to help people build things more quickly and consume cloud, like you don't want step one to be like wheel in a whole new data center full of hardware before you get started. Um the second thing I would say is we have built our whole cloud um on this, this containerized technology, on kubernetes and open ship, which means that we're able to deliver more of our portfolio through satellite. We can deliver application platforms and databases and Deb tools and ai and security functions all as a service via satellite. So the breath of cloud capability that we think we can deliver in this model is much higher than what I think our competitors are going to be able to do. And then finally, I would say the tide to kind of IBM view of enterprise and regulated industries, you know, the work brand I mentioned around things like FS cloud, the work we're doing in telco, like we spent a lot of our energy, I'm like, how do we help, you know, enterprises regulated industries take advantage of cut and we're extending all of that work outside of our cloud data centers with satellite to all these other places. And so you really can move those mission critical applications into a cot environment when you do it with us. >>Let's talk about some successes Brianna tell me about some of the customers that are getting some pretty big business outcomes and this is a new service to talk to me about how it's being used consumed in the benefits. >>Absolutely. You know what I I find a trend that I'm seeing is really uh the cloud being distributed to the edge and there's so many interesting use cases I hear every single day about how to really use machine learning and ai at the edge. And so you know, maybe it's something as simple as, you know, a worker safety app or you're you know, making sure that workers are safe using video cameras in an office building and alerting someone if they're going into a construction area and you're using the Ai and although the the images that's coming, they're coming in through the security cameras, you're doing some analysis and saying this person is wearing a hard hat or not and warning them, but that those use cases can be changed so quickly. And you know, we've we've seen that, I think I've talked about it before with Covid you change that to masks. Um you could change that. You could hook up the application of thermal devices. We've seen situations where you know, um machine learning is used at the manufacturing edge. So you can determine if there's an issue with your um production of, you know, in a factory there's we're seeing uh edge use cases and hospitals in terms of, you know, keeping the waiting room sanitized because of, you know, over usage. So there's all kinds of just really interesting solutions and I think this is kind of the next area where we're really able to um and even partner with folks that have extraordinary vertical expertise in a specific area and you know, bringing that to life at the edge and being able to really process that data at the edge. So there's very little latency and then also you're able to change those use cases so quickly because you're really consuming cloud native best practices in cloud cloud services at the end. So you're not having to install and and manage and operate those services at the edge. It's done for you >>imagine changing the ability to change use cases so quickly in a year that plus that we've seen so much dynamics and pivoting is really key for businesses in any industry Brianna. >>I agree. And that's the thing. You know, there hasn't been one particular industry I think, you know, of course we do see a lot in the financial services industry just probably because we're IBM, but in every industry, you know, we see, you know retail, it's interesting to see sporting goods companies want to have pop up shops in a specific sporting events and how do you, you know, have a van that is a sporting goods shop, but it's just there temporarily. And how do you have a satellite location at, in the van? So there's really interesting use cases that, you know, have emerged, um, you know, just over time due to, um, you know, the need to have this capability at the edge. >>Yeah, it's necessity is the mother of invention as they say, right, well thank you both so much for stopping by sharing what's going on with IBM Cloud Satellite, the new service, the new offerings, the opportunities in it for customers. I'm sure it's going to be another exciting year for IBM because you clearly have been very busy. Thank you both for stopping by the program. >>Thanks. Thanks so much lisa >>for Brianna frank and Jason McGee. I'm lisa martin. You're watching the cube live coverage of IBM, think. >>Mm

>>from around the globe. It's the cube with >>Digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual were not yet in real life. We're doing another remote interviews with two great guests cube alumni of course, I'm john for your host of the cube. We've got Jason McGee, IBM fellow VP and CTO of IBM cloud platform and octavian Tennessee. Senior Vice president Hybrid Cloud Engineering at Netapp. Both cube alumni. It's great to see you both. Thanks for coming on. Thank >>you. Great to be here. Thanks for having us. >>So we were just talking before we came on camera that you know what it feels like. We've had this conversation, you know, a long time ago we have Hybrid cloud has been on a trajectory for both of you guys many times on the cube. So now it's mainstream, it's here in the real world, everyone gets it. It's not, there's no real debate now. Multi cloud, that's that. People are debating that. Which means that's right around the corner. So Hybrid cloud is here and now, um, Jason this is really the focus and this is also brings together Netapp in your partnership and talk about the relationship first with hybrid cloud. >>Yeah, I mean, you know, look, we've talked to a number of times together I think in the industry, uh, maybe, maybe a few years ago people were debating whether Hybrid cloud was a real thing. We don't have that conversation anymore. I think, um, you know, enterprises today, especially maybe in the face of Covid and kind of how we work differently now realize that their cloud journey is going to be a mix of on prem and off premise systems. Probably going to be a mix of multiple public cloud providers, um, and what they're looking for now is how do I do that and how do I manage that hybrid environment? How do I have a consistent platform across the different environments I want to operate in. Um, and then how do I get more and more of my work into those environments? And it's been interesting. I think the first, the first waves of cloud, we're infrastructure centric and externally application focused, they were easier things. And now we're moving into more mission critical, more state fel more data oriented workloads. And that brings with it new challenges on where applications run and and how we leverage the club >>Octavia. You guys had a great relationship with IBM over the years, uh, data centric company that it has always been great engineering team. You're on the cloud. Hybrid cloud engineering. What's the current status of the relationship? Give us an update on how the it's vectoring into the hybrid clouds this year? Senior Vice President. Hybrid cloud engineering. >>Well, so first of all, I want to recognize 20 years of a successful partnership with IBM I think uh that happened. IBM have been companies that have embraced digital transformation and technology trends to enable that digital transformation for our customers. And we've been very successful. I think there is a very strong um joint hydrochloric value proposition for customers. Netapp storage and data services complement what IBM does in terms of products and solutions, both for on premise deployments in the cloud. I think together we can build more complete solutions solutions that span data mobility to the governance for the new workloads that Jason has talked about. >>And how are some of the customer challenges that you're seeing? Obviously software defined networking, software defined storage, uh, deVOps has now turned into Deb's sec ops. So you have now that program ability requirement with four dynamic applications, application driven infrastructure, all these buzzwords point to one thing the infrastructure has to be resilient and respond to the applications. >>Yeah, I would say uh infrastructure, you know, will continue to be uh you know, top of mind for everybody whether they're building a private uh you know, cloud or whether there um you know, trying to leverage, you know, something like IBM cloud, I think people want to consume, you know, infrastructure is an A P I I think they want simplicity, you know, security, I I think they want to manage their cost, you know very well. I think we're very proud to be partnering with IBM cloud to build such capabilities. >>Jason what's how are you guys help on some of these customers as they look at new things and sometimes retrofitting and re factoring previous stuff don't transforming but also innovating at the same time as a lot of that going on. What are you guys doing to help with the Hybrid challenges? >>Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of dimensions of that problem, but the one that that I think has been kind of most interesting over the last year has been how um kind of the consumption model of public cloud, you know, api driven self service capabilities operated for you, how that consumption model is starting to spread because I think one of the challenges with hybrid and one of the challenges as customers are looking at these more mission critical data centric kind of workloads was well, I can't always move that applications of public cloud data center or I need that application to live out on the network closer to my end users out where data is being generated maybe in an IOT context. And when you had those requirements, you had to kind of switch operating models, you had to kind of move away from a public cloud service consumption model to a software deployment model. And you know, we have a common platform and things like open shift that can run everywhere. But the missing piece was how do I consume everything as a service everywhere. And so recently we launched this thing called have been brought satellite, which we've been working with the T V. And his team on on how we can actually extend the public cloud experience back into the data center out to the edge and allow people to kind of mix both locational flexibility with public consumption. When you do that, you of course running a much more diverse infrastructure environment. You have to integrate with different storage environments and you wind up with multi tier applications, you know, some stuff on the edge and some stuff in the core. And so data replication and data management start to become really interesting because you're kind of distributing your workloads across this. No complex environment. >>We've seen that relationship between compute and storage change a lot over the past decade. As the evolution goes okay, I gotta ask you this is critical path for companies. They want the storage ready infrastructure. You guys have been doing that for many, many decades party with IBM for sure. But now they're all getting a hybrid cloud big time and it's not it's attributed computing is what it is. It's an operating model. When someone asked you guys what your capabilities are, how do you answer that? In today's world? Because you have storage is well known. You got a great product, people know that, but what is net apps capabilities? When I say I'm going all in and hybrid cloud, complete changeover. >>So what we have been doing is basically rewriting a lot of our software with a few design points in mind. Um the software defined has been definitely, you know, one of the key design points. The second is the um, the hybrid cloud and the internalization of our operating system so they can run both in traditional environments as well as in the cloud. I think the last thing that we wanted to do, it's enabled the speed of scale and that has been by building um, you know, intrinsically in the, in the, in the product, both support or, and also using kubernetes as an infrastructure to achieve that agility that that scale >>talk about this data fabric vision because to me that comes up all the time in my conversations with practitioners. The number one problem that there is a problem that we're solving to solve and the conversation tends to I here was a control playing kubernetes horizontally scalable. This all points to data being available. So how do you create that availability? What does data fabric mean? What does all this mean in hybrid context? >>Well, if you if you think about it data fabric, it's a hybrid cloud, you know, concept, right. This is about enabling data governance, data mobility, data security in an environment where some of the applications will run on premises or at the edge of the smart edge and many of the, you know, perhaps data lakes and analytics, um, you know, and services rich services will be in a central locations or on many or perhaps some large, you know, data centers. So you need to have, you know, the type of, you know, capabilities, data services, you know, to enable that mobility, that governments governance, that that security across this continuum that spans the edge the core and the cloud, >>Jason, you mentioned satellite before. Cloud satellite. Can you go into more detail on it? I know it's kind of a new product, uh what is that about? And tell me what's the benefits and why does it exist and what problems does it solve? >>Yeah. So so in the most simple terms, cloud satellite is the capability to extend iBMS public cloud into on prem infrastructure infrastructure at the edge or in a multi cloud context to other public cloud infrastructures. And so you can consume all the services in the public cloud that you need to to build your application of open shift as a service databases. Deb tools, aI capabilities. Instead of being limited to only being able to consume those services in IBM's cloud regions, you can now add your private data center or add your metro provider or add your AWS or Azure account and now consume those services consistently across all those environments. Um and that really allows you to kind of combine the benefits of public ill with kind of location independence, you see in hybrid and let's solve new problems like, you know, it's really interesting, we're seeing like a I and data being a primary driver. I need my application to live in a certain country or to live next to my mainframe or to live like you know in a metro because all of my, I'm doing like video analytics on a bunch of cameras and I'm not going to stream all that data back to halfway across the country to some cloud region and so lets you extend out in that way and when you do that of course you now move the cloud into a more diverse infrastructure environment. And so like we've been working with Netapp on, how do we then expose um Netapp storage into this environment when I'm running in the data center where I'm running at the edge and I need to store that data replicate the data, secure it. Well how do I kind of plug those two things together? I think john at the beginning you kind of alluded to this idea of you know, things are becoming more application centric, Right? And we're trying to run an I. T. Architecture that's more centered around the application well by combining um clouds, knowledge of kind of where everything is running with a common platform like open shift with a kubernetes aware data fabric in storage layer, you really can achieve that. You can have an application centric kind of management that spans those environments. >>Yeah, I want to come back to that whole impact on I. T. Because this has come up as a major theme here. Think that the I. T. Transformation is going to be more about cloud scale but I want to get octavian on the satellite on Netapp role and how you complement that. How do you guys fit in? He just mentioned that you guys are playing with clouds satellite, obviously this was like an operating model, How does that fit in? >>Um simply put we extend and enable the capabilities that uh IBM satellite uh you know, platform provides, I think Jason referred to the storage aspects um and you know what we are doing, it's enabling not only storage but rich data services around tearing based on temperature or you know, replicated snapshots or you know, capabilities around, you know cashing, you know, high availability encryption and and so forth. So we believe that our our technology integrates very well with red hat open shift um and uh the kubernetes aspect enable the application mobility and in that translation of really distributed computing at scale, you know from you know from the traditional data center um to the edge and uh you know to the massive hubs that IBM is building, >>you know, I gotta say but watching you guys worked together for many decades now and and covering you with the queue for the past 10 years or 11 years now um been a great partnership. I gotta say one thing that's obviously too obvious to me and our team and mainly mainly the world is now you got a new Ceo over at IBM you have a cloud focus that's on unwavering Arvin loves the cloud. We all know that um ecosystems are changing with that. You have already had a big ecosystem and partnerships now it seems to be moving to a level where you gotta have that ecosystem really thrive in the cloud. So I guess we'll use the last couple of minutes if you guys don't mind explaining how the IBM Netapp relationship in the new context of this new partnership, new ecosystem or a new kind of world helps customers and how you guys are working together. >>Yeah, I mean I could start, I mean I think you're right that that cloud is all about platforms and about kind of the overall environment, people operating in the ecosystem is really critical and I think things like satellite have given us new ways to work together. I mean I'd be a minute up, as we said, I've been working together for a long time. We rely on them a lot in our public cloud, for example in our storage tiers but with with the kind of idea of distributed cloud and the boundaries of public cubs spreading to all these new environments. Those are just new places where we can build really interesting, valuable integrations for our clients so that they can deal with day to deal with these more complex apps, you know, in all the places that they exist. So I think it's gonna actually really exciting um to kind of leverage that opportunity to find new ways to work together and and uh and deliver solutions to our clients >>Octavia, >>I would say that data is the ecosystem and we all know that there is more data right now being created outside of the traditional data center, beat in the cloud or at the edge. Um so our mission is, you know, to enable that, you know, hybrid cloud or or that uh, you know, data mobility um and enable, you know, persistence rich data, you know, storage services, whatever data is being created. I think IBM's new satellite platform um you know, comes in and broadens the aperture of people being able to consume IBM services at the edge and or or the remote office. And I think that's very exciting. >>You guys are both experts and solely seasoned executives. Devops DEP sec ops, DEV data Ops whatever you wanna call, data's here. Ecosystems guys, thanks for coming on the key. Really appreciate the insight. >>Thank you. Thank >>you. Okay. IBM think cute coverage jOHN for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021, brought to you by IBM. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBES coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. We're not yet in real life, we're doing another remote interviews with two great guests CUBI alumni. Of course, I'm John for your host of theCUBE. We got Jason MacGee, IBM fellow VP and CTO of IBM's cloud platform and Octavian Tanase senior vice president Hybrid Cloud Engineering at NetApp both CUBE alumni, it's great to see you both. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, great to be here. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we were just talking before we came on camera that we it feels like we've had this conversation a long time ago we have. Hybrid cloud has been on a trajectory for both of you guys and many times on theCUBE. So now it's mainstream, it's here in the real world, everyone gets it, there's no real debate, now multicloud, people are debating that which means that's right around the corner. So hybrid cloud is here now, Jason this is really the focus and this is also brings together the NetApp in your partnership and talk about the relationship first with hybrid cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, look we've talked a number of times together I think in the industry. Maybe a few years ago people were debating whether hybrid cloud was a real thing, we don't have that conversation anymore. I think enterprises today, especially maybe in the face of COVID and kind of how we work differently now realize that their cloud journey is going to be a mix of on-prem and off-prem systems probably going to be a mix of multiple public cloud providers. And what they're looking for now is how do I do that? And how do I manage that hybrid environment? How do I have a consistent platform across the different environments I want to operate in? And then how do I get more and more of my workload into those environments? And it's been interesting. I think the first waves of cloud where infrastructure centric and externally application focused, they were easier things, and now we're moving into more mission critical more stateful, more data oriented workloads, and that brings with it new challenges on where applications run and how we leverage the club. >> Octavian, you guys had a great relationship with IBM over the years data centric company, NetApp has always been great engineering team, you're on the hybrid cloud engineering. What's the current status of the relationship, give us an update on how the it's vectoring into the hybrid cloud since you're senior vice president of Hybrid Cloud Engineering. >> Well, so first of all, I want to recognize 20 years of a successful partnership with IBM. I think NetApp have been IBM have been companies that have embraced digital transformation and technology trends to enable that digital transformation for our customers, and we've been very successful. I think there is a very strong joint hybrid cloud value proposition for customers on NetApp storage and data services compliment. What IBM does in terms of products and solutions both for on-premise deployments in the cloud. I think together we can build more complete solutions that span data mobility, data governance for the new workrooms that Jason has talked about. >> And how has some of the customer challenges that you're seeing obviously software defined networking software defined storage, DevOps is now turned into DevSecOps. So you have now that programmability requirement with for dynamic applications, application driven infrastructure, all these buzz words point to one thing. The infrastructure has to be resilient and respond to the applications. >> I would say infrastructure will continue to be a top of mind for everybody, whether they're building a private cloud or whether they're trying to leverage something like IBM Cloud. I think people want to consume infrastructure as an API, I think they want a simplicity, security, I think they want to manage their costs very well. I think we're very proud to be partnering with IBM Cloud to build such capabilities. >> Jason how are you guys helping some of these customers as they look at new things and sometimes retrofitting and refactoring previous stuff during transforming but also innovating at the same time. There's a lot of that going on. What are you guys doing to help with the hybrid challenges? >> Yeah, I mean there's a lot of dimensions to that problem but the one that I think has been kind of most interesting over the last year has been how kind of the consumption model public cloud, API driven self service, capabilities operated for you. How that consumption model is starting to spread. Because I think one of the challenges with hybrid and one of the challenges as customers are looking at these more mission critical data centric kind of workloads was well, I can't always move that application to the public cloud data center or I need that application to live out on the network closer to my end users, so out where data is being generated maybe in an IoT context. And when you had those requirements you had to kind of switch operating models, you had to kind of move away from a public cloud service consumption model to a software deployment model, and we have a common platform and things like OpenShift that can run everywhere but the missing piece was how do I consume everything as a service everywhere? And so recently we launched this thing called IBM Cloud Satellite which we've been working with Octavian and his team on how we can actually extend the public cloud experience back into the data center out to the edge and allow people to kind of mix both location flexibility with public cloud consumption. And when you do that, you of course running a much more diverse infrastructure environment, you have to integrate with different storage environments and you wind up with like multi-tiered applications, some stuff on the edge and some stuff in the core. And so data replication and data management start to become really interesting because you're kind of distributing your workloads across this more complex environment. >> We've seen that relationship between compute and storage change a lot over the past decade as the evolution goes. Octavian, I got to ask you this is critical path for companies, they want the storage ready infrastructure, you guys have been doing that for many decades partnering with IBM for sure but now they're all getting hybrid cloud big time and it's attributed computing is what it is, it's the operating model. When someone asks you guys what your capabilities are, how do you answer that in today's world? Because you have storage as well knowing you got a great product people know that, but what is NetApp's capabilities when I say I'm going all in a hybrid cloud complete changeover. >> So what we have been doing is basically rewriting a lot of our software with a few design points in mind. The software defined has been definitely one of the key design points, the second is the hybrid cloud in the containerization of our operating systems so they can run both in traditional environments as well as in the cloud. I think the last thing that we wanted to do it's enabled the speed of scale and that has been by building intrinsically in the product both support or in also using Kubernetes as an infrastructure to achieve that agility that scale. >> So how about this data fabric vision? Because to me, this is comes up all the time in my conversations with practitioners, the number one problem that they're solving to solve in the conversation tends to, I hear words like control plane, Kubernetes, horizontally scalable, this all points to data being available. So how do you create that availability? What does data fabric mean? What does all this mean in a hybrid context? >> Well, if you think about it data fabric it's a hybrid cloud concept, this is about enabling data governance, data mobility, data security in an environment where some of the applications were run on premises or at the edge or the smart edge and many of the perhaps data lakes and analytics, and services, rich services will be in a central locations or on many or perhaps some large data centers. So you need to have the type of capabilities data services to enable that mobility that governance that security across this continuum that spans the edge the core and the cloud. >> Jason, you mentioned satellite before cloud satellite. Could you go into more detail on that? I know it's kind of a new product, what is that about, and tell me what's the benefits and why is it exist and what problems does it solve? >> Yeah, so in the most simple terms, cloud satellite is the capability to extend IBM's public cloud into on-prem infrastructure at the edge or in a multicloud context to other public cloud infrastructures. And so you can consume all the services in the public cloud that you need to to build their application, OpenShift as a service database, as DevTools, AI capabilities instead of being limited to only being able to consume those services in IBM's cloud regions you can now add your private data center or add your Metro provider or add your AWS or Azure accounts and now consume those services consistently across all those environments. And that really allows you to kind of combine the benefits of public cloud with the kind of location independence you see in hybrid and lets us solve new problems. It's really interesting we're seeing like AI and data being a primary driver. I need my application to live in a certain country or to live next to my mainframe or to live like in a Metro because all of my, I'm doing like video analytics on a bunch of cameras and I'm not going to stream all that data back to halfway across the country to some cloud region now. And so it lets you extend out in that way. And when you do that, of course, you now move the cloud into a more diverse infrastructure environment. And so like we've been working with NetApp on how do we then expose NetApp storage into this environment when I'm running in the data center or I'm running at the edge and I need to store that data replicate the data, secure it. Well, how do I kind of plug those two things together? I think John, at the beginning you kind of alluded to this idea of things are becoming more application centric, right? And we're trying to run IT architecture that's more centered around the application. Well, by combining clouds knowledge of kind of where everything's running with that common platform like OpenShift with a Kubernetes aware data fabric and storage layer, you really can achieve that. You can have an application centric kind of management that spans those environments. >> Yeah, I want to come back to that whole impact on IT because this has come up as a major theme here. Think that the IT transformation is going to be more about cloud scale, but I want to get to Octavian on the satellite on NetApp's role and how you compliment that, how do you guys fit in? He just mentioned that you guys are playing with cloud satellite, obviously this was like an operating model. How does that fit in? >> Simply we extend and enable the capabilities that IBM satellite platform provides. I think Jason referred to the storage aspects and what we are doing it's enabling not only storage but rich data services around peering based on temperature or replicated snapshots or capabilities around caching, high availability, encryption and so forth. So we believe that our technology integrate very well with Red Hat OpenShift and the Kubernetes aspect enable the application mobility and in that translation of really distributed computing at scale from the traditional data center to the edge and to the massive hubs that IBM is building. >> You know, I got to say but watching you guys work together for many decades now and covering you with theCUBE for the past 10 years or 11 years now been a great partnership. I got to say one thing that's obviously too obvious to me and our team and mainly the world is now you've got a new CEO over at IBM, you have a cloud focus that's on unwavering, Octavian loves the cloud we all know that. Ecosystems are changing, IBM already had a big ecosystem and partnerships. Now it seems to be moving to a level where you got to have that ecosystem really thrive in the cloud, so I guess we'll use the last couple of minutes if you guys don't mind explaining how the IBM NetApp relationship in the new context of this new partnership a new ecosystem or a new kind of world helps customers and how you guys are working together? >> Yeah, I mean I think you're right that cloud is all about platforms and about kind of the overall environment people operate in and the ecosystem is really critical. And I think things like satellite have given us new ways to work together. I mean, IBM and NetApp, as we set up, been working together for a long time we rely on the MoD in our public cloud, for example, in our storage tiers, but with the kind of idea of distributed cloud and the boundaries of public cloud spreading to all these new environments those are just new places where we can build really interesting valuable integrations for our clients so that they can deal with data, deal with these more complex apps in all the places that they exist. So I think it's been actually really exciting to kind of leverage that opportunity to find new ways to work together and deliver solutions for our clients. >> Octavian. >> I will say that data is the ecosystem and we all know that there's more data right now being created outside of the traditional data center be it in the cloud or at the edge. So our mission is to enable that hybrid cloud or that data mobility and enable know persistence rich data storage services, whatever data is being created. I think IBM's new satellite platform comes in and broadens the aperture of people being able to consume IBM's services at the edge and or remote office and I think that's very exciting. >> You guys are both experts and solely seasoned executives to DevOps, DevSecOps, DevDataOps, what are we going to call data's here ecosystems. Guys, thanks for coming on the queue, really appreciate the insight. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, IBM, Think CUBE coverage, I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From the theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE coming to you from our Palo Alto studios. Today we're going to have a CUBE conversation really about this kind of ongoing evolution of cloud, and it was a huge deal, and AWS came on the scene and really launched kind of the public cloud evolution, which not only was a different technology stack, but really a different way to think about things, a different way to think about workloads. And that has evolved to hybrid cloud and multicloud, and it just continues to evolve over time. So we're going to get some of the experts in from IBM to talk about their perspective and what they're doing all about it. So we're excited to invite our next guest. She is Briana Frank. She's the director of product management for IBM. Briana, good to see you. Where are you joining us from today? >> I am joining you from Wake Forest, North Carolina. And as you can see, I'm from my home office, but always busy working and fun doing things in the cloud and thinking about new technologies even when we're at home. >> Excellent. And also joining us, many-time CUBE alumni Jason McGee, IBM fellow, vice president and CTO of IBM Cloud Platform. Jason, great to see you again. I looked it up before we turned on the cameras. I think you've been on, like, eight times. So you're definitely a VIP in the CUBE alumni world. Where are you joining us from today? >> Yeah, I mean, I'm in Apex, which is outside of Raleigh, and great to be here again. It's always fun to talk to you guys. It's been a little while, but great to be back. >> Yeah, so let's just jump into it, right? You've all seen the memes revolving around what's driving your digital transformation. Is it the CEO, the CIO, or COVID? And we all know the answer to the question. It's really been an interesting time, right? It was kind of a light switch moment in mid-March. And then people are saying, you know, years and years of digital transformation kind of suddenly compressed into this light switch moment. But now we're months and months and months later, we're in October, and it's clear that this is not just a a one-time fix and wait till we all go back to work. This is going to continue for a while. And cloud is such a huge enabler. Had this happened five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the ability for information workers, like the businesses that we're in, would've been much more difficult. So acknowledging that there's still a lot of people hurting, a lot, hospitality industry, restaurant industry, sports places that aggregate people, concerts. We're fortunate we're in the information industry. And I'd just love to get your perspective, Jason, on cloud as an enabling platform and really an enabling way of thinking about things that have made this transition a little bit less painful than it otherwise would've been. >> Yeah, that's a great point, Jeff, and I think on one hand it's been pretty amazing to see how much our industry in technology and IT has been able to kind of adapt to COVID, adapt to working at home, adapt to these kinds of changing models. But what's been really interesting is as someone who spends all their time thinking about cloud every day, it's been really incredible to see how much it's accelerated people's adoption of cloud. Like, obviously everyone was leveraging cloud. They had plans to move more and more workloads to cloud. But I think over the last six months we've really seen a massive acceleration, and I also think kind of a mindset shift that maybe before there was some hesitation and conversation about what things move to cloud and what things don't, and that seems to have kind of gone away, and everyone's like, this is the model that not only will carry us through moments like this, but we have newfound confidence that it's the right model for us to move the majority of our businesses to. >> Right. >> So really massive acceleration. >> Massive acceleration. And Briana, get your take, 'cause you're a product manager, so you're in the weeds on the speeds and feeds and the features and functions. Cloud as a concept sounds kind of simple, but the execution is not so simple. And we've seen kind of this morphing from moving your test dev maybe to a public cloud, IBM has a cloud, to there's some stuff that just can't go on the cloud or shouldn't go to the cloud or I'm not sure if it should go in the cloud. So now we're hearing talk of hybrid cloud and multicloud, and we're hearing pieces of public cloud in my own data center and pieces of my own data center in a public cloud. It's a pretty complicated space. I wonder if you can kind of share your perspective as this thing morphs from kind of a simple concept and a beautiful little icon to a much more complex execution in the real world. >> Well, great question and insights. And I think, building off of what Jason said, I think the most important shift I've seen is really a mind shift, a mindset shift. And there's so much more empathy that I'm seeing across the board, whether it's children running in the background or cats and pets, there's a lot more tolerance for work-life balance and a lot more empathy for how people are getting through this really challenging pandemic. And what I think is interesting is that kind of carries over into the technology. And so now where some of our clients were solving problems like keeping their workforce safe by using video analytics to see if someone's using or wearing maybe a hard hat in a construction zone. Now that use case has sort of shifted, and now it's is someone wearing a mask? Do they have a temperature? How do we make sure that the office areas are sanitized and clean so that when people go back to work, they'll be working in a safe environment? So I think that the mindset shift is really driving a lot of these technology innovations. And then of course you need cloud to make those real. So I think that's the kind of aha moment I've seen is that people are leading with empathy and that's driving kind of the next wave of innovation that I'm seeing. >> I have to say I've been doing these many, many years, and Briana, I don't think anyone has brought up empathy at the at the head end of the open. And I love that 'cause I think that's a way to think about it, right? 'Cause these are people trying to execute business activities, and it's not easy. And that's a really great take. Jason, I want to go back to you and talk about one of the things we talked about the cloud, but really it's about enabling applications, right? And really, the application now has become this first class citizen where it's, this is the app I want. Cloud enables me to use whatever infrastructure I need versus this is the infrastructure I have. Hm, what can I put on this app? So I'd love to get your take. As you said, you think about cloud all the time, but really, cloud is an app enabler. And how has, as that capability has been gifted to people, how has that made the the cloud execution a lot more complex? >> Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think you're hitting on a really key transformation that's happened in cloud over the last few years, which is that it's gone from infrastructure kind of cost optimization to an application delivery accelerator. And what I think that's caused is everyone's starting to kind of move their thinking up the stack in cloud, and you see the rise of technologies like Kubernetes and OpenShift as a platform that enables application developers to build applications and deliver them more quickly. I think the acceleration that we've been talking about here has cemented that. At the end of the day, we're all trying to figure out in our businesses how to adapt to change. We have some new changes this year that maybe we didn't predict we would have last year. We're trying to figure out how to adapt to those to deliver new capabilities, to maybe build a digital experience for something that we didn't have a digital experience for before, 'cause now nobody is face to face. And that requires cloud to be much more application-centric. It requires cloud, you alluded to this kind of evolution. I think it's starting to drive cloud into more places. Cloud isn't about just getting into some big cloud data center somewhere. Cloud is about a style of working and a set of technologies that I want to be able to consume wherever I need them. So that kind of application-centric capability and the rise of cloud-native technologies I think go hand in hand. >> Right, so it got to us from a simple dev swiping a credit card to do a little project on Amazon to now enterprising having very complex ecosystems, right? Very complex situation because they've got lots of different clouds and lots of different apps running on lots of different clouds, and the application and the control of those is now much more complicated than probably when you just had it all in your own data center or if you're some cloud data organization and you grew up on the public cloud and you really are kind of a single app that happens to be a big one in hyperscale. So I'm curious, Briana, you guys have a ton of customers. What are they telling you about what they're doing with hybrid cloud, managing hybrid cloud, trying to get back to some of the simplicity and kind of the simplistic vision and execution when what's happening is probably increasing complexity as different apps are running on different clouds, different places. >> Yeah, great question. You know, I think that what we're hearing from our clients is really a couple of things. One is that they have to find ways to unburden their teams. They only have limited resources and the sky's the limit in terms of what's possible. So they need to be able to innovate faster, but they have to unburden the team. So the rise of "as a service" I think is really coming into its own because teams don't have time to manage things like Kubernetes. They have to go higher in the stack and really start to build and innovate for their own business differentiation. But another I think really important thing that we're hearing from our clients is that we have to meet them where they are in their journey. So what you said was great. A lot of our clients are using five to nine different clouds today, and that's extraordinarily fragmented, and being able to manage and have one way to see what workload is running where and what is running on that workload is really important. And having kind of one single pane of glass where they can manage everything is one of the single most important features that I hear that is needed. And I think the other thing that I hear a lot from clients is they need flexibility. They need flexibility for, you know, where they are in their journey. Some folks, they need to be able to deploy to existing infrastructure that they have in their data center, and others need to be able to deploy to another public cloud. And having the flexibility to run anywhere is one of the more common themes that I'm seeing. >> Right, so, and you guys built something to help with that, right? It's the IBM cloud satellite. So you just basically outlined the customer challenge, so what did you have to do to enable them to have a single pane of glass, to have more control across these disparate projects running in disparate clouds. >> Well, so one of the things that we found is our clients really, all of the agility that they need to adopt cloud data best practices, really comes from the public cloud. The public cloud services, DevOps, all the tools that allow you to really run and move faster and innovate faster, but they needed that ability to consume those public cloud services anywhere. So at the edge, on another public cloud, or in their existing infrastructure. And of course there's tons of infrastructure options. We have infrastructure for our clients that they can use. We have turnkey appliances. But really having that public cloud, cloud-native agility, but really bringing that anywhere that our clients want to run it is the key to satellite. >> Right, right. So it's not kind of what would be typically thought of as a hybrid cloud solution per se, but it's really almost kind of a level up, if I'm hearing you correctly, in controlling all the different kind of instances or instantiations of your cloud execution. That'd be accurate, Jason? >> Yeah, well, or maybe another way to think about it is it's a way of consuming hybrid, right? It's a way of consuming these hybrid cloud capabilities. Hybrid starts with a common platform, and this idea that we are using things like OpenShift as that common technology platform that enables customers to build applications once and run them anywhere. What satellite brings to the table is it takes that base technology platform and it delivers it as a cloud service, and a cloud service that's flexible enough to be anywhere. And so you kind of combine the best of both. You combine a common technology approach and you combine the as a service API-based consumption model of public cloud to get a hybrid strategy that's super flexible, right? And now really lets customers focus on the work that they're doing going faster. And at IBM, we've been pretty clear that we think the future of hybrid cloud computing is rooted in technologies like Kubernetes and OpenShift, that that's the platform of the future. The acquisition of Red Hat was motivated by that strategy. Our public cloud for the last three-plus years has been built internally on top of the same technologies. And so what we've done with satellite from a technology perspective is we've taken the things that we do in our cloud and we've used the power of of Kubernetes and OpenShift to deliver those anywhere, right? And to give customers that same experience on their infrastructure or on some other public cloud. >> Right. I love it because it's kind of cloud on cloud, if you will, but it really supports this notion of the customer experience, and even more importantly in some ways, the developer experience to make sure that your developers inside the house are feeling good, have a great productive environment so they can do a better job with what they're working on. And that that sounds like something they would really, really enjoy and be native to the way they're used to working already. >> It's interesting too, one of the kind of interesting, I don't know, adoption trends we're starting to see with approaches like satellite is if you think about cloud, I'll oversimplify, but you could say there's kind of two big transformations. One is move my workload to a public cloud, and the other is change how my team works, right? Adopt cloud-native, agile best practices. And often to get to the culture change of the team, you had to start with moving the app, but that's hard, especially for the kind of 80% of workloads that we're seeing move to cloud now where they're complex. They have lots of ties into data that you have in your data center. So it's hard to move them sometimes. So with approaches like satellite, you can kind of flip the order. You can bring the cloud in house, if you will. You can start to adopt self-service and API-based consumption and DevOps and change how your teams work and make them more efficient without moving the applications. And then later, if it makes sense to move them, you can, right? And I think that's really powerful. >> Right, right. Briana, I want to go back to you on kind of the nuts and bolts. 'Cause I don't know if you've read "Innovator's Dilemma" by Christian Clayton. You should if you haven't. But one of the things is how do you prioritize what you're building? How do you prioritize your feature stack? Because you have to, right? You have to put one in front of the other, and it's going to drive your design decisions and what you ultimately ship. So as you were thinking about satellite, what were kind of your top-level design priorities that you're really building this towards that you wanted to make sure you really nailed? >> Oh, what a great question. I love that question. I'm so passionate about product and design and I think we take it very seriously at IBM, and it's, we have an amazing design department, if you will, at IBM. And one of the things we do is just relentlessly interview our clients, and we really try to understand what their main issues are. And one of the first use cases that we we looked at was actually in the financial industry, which was, in the financial services industry, the differentiation is really all about the technology itself, and so they're constantly having to innovate at a faster pace so they can bring new features and functions to their clients but they have this dilemma where they have to, in some cases, in many cases, keep the data on-prem in a specific location. And that starts to get really interesting, because sometimes the regulations, it could be country, it could be a compliance thing, but for whatever reason, there is a specific requirement, and sometimes that comes with a fine if that data doesn't reside in that location. So having the ability to move at an incredibly fast pace and keep innovating, but keep that data on-prem and offload the management of Kubernetes and the services that allow them to move fast. That was one of the first use cases that we tackled. And I think that's a pretty important one, because if you can get that right, that starts to permeate all other industries, because you want to, you have to be secure. You have to make sure that the data resides and is on-prem and in a specific location and that it's auditable. So I think that was one of our first use cases, and that has served us really well. We also, one of the things that we do inside of IBM is that we co-develop using our own internal workloads. And so we use the data and AI team within IBM will GA with us when we GA IBM Cloud Satellite, and so their workloads are running on top of satellite. And I think that's a great way to come to market because when you're delivering an MVP, but if you can deliver an MVP that's already running a really complex AI workload, that's a pretty impressive MVP, if you ask me. So we try to do that whenever we release new products, and I think that has served us very well because it really forces us to solve the really hard problems first. We don't have a choice. We have to be able to make some pretty strategic choices upfront to be able to deliver something like that. >> That's great. Jason, I want to go back to you and talk about a little bit beyond the cloud, but things that are really interesting and happening, right? You already talked about this big enabler with containers and Kubernetes, but this next thing that's coming, right, is just edge, which is an extension of the cloud, an outpost to the cloud, but this whole concept of getting outside of the data center but actually now starting to bring the compute to the devices that generate the data as well as need that. How do you see that kind of impacting your cloud thoughts? I love that you're thinking cloud all the time. And the other piece, keying off of what Briana just said, is applied AI, right? I mean, I think we all would agree that AI and machine learning as kind of a standard, generic thing is okay, but really the application of the AI and the machine learning for specific use cases is where we're seeing huge, huge benefit. And I would imagine there's many, many kind of areas within cloud execution that AI and machine learning can start to add even more and more and more efficiencies and automation. >> Sure, sure. So maybe a couple comments. I mean, I think the edge thing is so interesting because if you really kind of step back and think about what we were talking about with cloud, what is a cloud is becoming much more diverse. Started as it's these three regions and it's becoming everybody's data centers plus on-prem, and then it's becoming edge, large edge locations, and then it's becoming devices. So clouds are becoming pervasive as a concept across all IT consumption models. And there's core technologies, even, like containers that we think apply at all those levels. They apply in the core cloud, in the data center, at the edge, in a device. And so things like satellite certainly give us a mechanism to push that boundary, to push closer to the end user. And there's a ton of scenarios motivating that. 5G telecommunications and high-speed networking for mobile devices is necessitating pushing closer to where the data's getting generated. IoT, same thing. If you think about the IoT edge case, that's massive data generation. You don't necessarily want to backhaul that all the way back to a central cloud. You want to be able to do AI and training and inferencing on that data close to where it lives. And so you need this whole idea of cloud to kind of expand, and if it doesn't, then what happens is all of these different use cases become like different technology stacks or different operational models and you get tons of complexity. So it's this really interesting intersection, and I think we're getting much more complex in how we deploy, but we're trying to put common ideas over the top of it to simplify, and I think that's pretty interesting. On the AI question, you're right, there's tons of places where AI, applied AI will come into the picture. At IBM, we're doing a ton of work on AI for IT operations and how do we apply AI modeling to monitoring, to resiliency, even to workload placement. I mean, just think about the world we just described. As a customer, maybe I have IBM cloud and I have 20 satellite locations in all our fun places in the world, and now I have to make decisions about what runs where and where should I deploy my workloads and what's the most efficient way to place workloads to get availability or better performance, and AI plays a role there. So I see a really bright future as we build out this infrastructure to then use AI as a mechanism to further simplify the customer's consumption of cloud. >> Yeah, that's great. So I want to give you both the last word before we sign off, and that was a good summary, Jason. Cloud's been around for a while and it gets tossed around, and again, now we have hybrid and multi and all these different flavors. You guys are in the weeds and you're seeing down the road a little bit. What is it about cloud that most people probably aren't talking about when you kind of look in your crystal ball, obviously don't share any secrets that you can't share, that gets you excited and makes you think, wow, we're still really, hard to believe, but really in the early days of what this really, the kind of opportunities that this opens up. And I'll go with you first, Briana. >> Well, that's a great question. I think we're already starting to see that with the example of all of the work that we're seeing in the COVID space. It just feels like whatever challenge that might lie ahead in our future, we have an ability to quickly iterate and change and adapt. It's so interesting to see how fast we can roll out new technologies and new ideas. Things that would take years to put together you can kind of put together in a week or so with a quick POC. And that's really an exciting kind of place to be that you can adapt and change so quickly. So I think that's one. And I do think your point about edge is really an important one. There's more and more opportunities to distribute workloads closer to, compute goes closer to where the users are, so therefore you're reducing latency, so you're getting instant feedback. And I think that's really going to be interesting. And then I think the third element, again, is like security and compliance. How do you know exactly that your data stays exactly where you want it to, and you can have proof and you can audit that data. I think that's really where the future's headed. >> Yeah, that's great. And Jason, to you, what's getting you up in the morning today? >> Oh, you don't want to know what gets me up today. But if we talk about what's coming, so for me, my whole career, I've really been thinking about applications. And I think one of the kind of macro trends that everyone doesn't always see that's going on in cloud is we're switching from an IT infrastructure-centric view of computing to an application-centric view. And all of these things we've been talking about are kind of steps along that journey. We're getting to a point where I can build applications, I can build them in a consistent way, I can deploy them anywhere in the world on this incredibly diverse infrastructure. As a developer, I have simple, immediate access to world-class capabilities, to specialized hardware. We are really in the midst of a transformation on how we build computing technology and really a democratization of that technology that 10 or 15 years ago you wouldn't have had the, most people would not have had the funds to stand up the technology they needed to build these things. And that's what really gets me excited, because I think about, well, then what's all the innovation that's going to come from that? As more and more developers have access to this powerful infrastructure in these diverse ways, what are they going to create? And that's what's, I think, going on under the covers. I think we're in the middle of a generational transformation of technology that will result in things we can't predict today because we'll open up so many people's ability to leverage that platform. >> What a great thought to close on, Jason, 'cause I think we hear that consistently all the time. What's the key to innovation? Give more people the access to the tools, give more people access to the data and more people the power to do something with it and create. And we hear all the time about the disadvantaged classes of people that just didn't get the opportunity, and if all those people had the same school, the same education, and now the same basically infinite compute power at their disposal, what are they going to invent? And I think it's an exciting future, and I think that's a great place to close. So we'll leave it at that. I want to thank you both for checking in. Briana, great to meet you, and Jason, always good to see you, as well. >> Yeah, nice to meet you. >> Yeah, great to be here, thank you. >> All right, thanks a lot and have a great day. >> Thank you. >> All right, that was Briana and Jason. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (bright music)

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to the Cube here in Mosconi North at IBM. Think twenty nineteen. I'm stupid. And my CLO host for the segment is Day Volante. We have four days, a water wall. Coverage of this big show happened. Welcome back to the program. Jason McGee, who is an IBM fellow, and he's the vice president. CTO of Cloud Platform at IBM. Jason, Great to see a >> guy to have fair. >> All right, So, Jason, we spoke with you at Que Con Way. We're saying it's a slightly different audience. A little bit bigger here. Not as many hoodies and jeans and T shirts a little bit more of a business crowd were still talking about clouds. So let's talk about your kind of your role here at the show. What's gonna keep you busy all week? >> S o? I mean, obviously, cloud is a huge part of what's going on. I think talking a lot about both public and private, about hybrid and some are multi called management capabilities. You know, my role as the leader called Platform. I'm talking a lot about platform as a service and communities and containers in the studio and kind of all the new technologies that people are using to help build the next generation of applications. >> All right, so we've had a few interviews today already talk about some of the multi cloud pieces. We had Sandberg on alien talk about eternity. So first you're gonna help correct the things that he got >> anything. Gang >> and service measures have been a really hot conversation the last year or so SDO envoy and the like t talk to us about where IBM fits into this discussion of service meshes. >> Yeah, so you know, I think >> we've been on this kind of journey as an industry of last year's to build anew at platform on DH service meshes kind of fit the part of the problem, which is, How does everything talk to each other and how to actually control that and get visibility into it? You know, IBM has had a founding role in that project. My team at IBM and Google got together with the guys, a lift to create it. Theo, what I'm most excited about, I think a twenty nineteen is that's that technology is really transitioning into something people are using in production and their applications. It's becoming more of kind of the default stack that people are using Really helping them do security invisibility control over their applications? >> Yeah. What? One thing that I heard just from the community and wonder if you could tell me is, you know, is dio itself. The governance model is still not fully into CNC s. Yeah, I heard a little bit, hasn't he? On some envoy? Of course. Out there in the like. So, you know, where are we? What needs to happen to kind of >> move forward? Yeah, you're right. So we're not there quite yet. We're pushing hard to make that happen. Certainly. From an IBM perspective, we absolutely believe that CNC F is the right home for Osteo as you mentioned some of the pieces like Envoy or they're ready. You know, C N c f has done such a tremendous job over the last eighteen months. Really rallying all the core technologies that make up this new coordinate A platform that we're building on costo is no out there's one. Oh, it's been sure people are using it. You know, that last step needs to happen to get into the community. >> So I have to ask you So things move so fast in this world, you go back to the open stack days, and that was going to change the world. And then Dakar Containers. And then Cooper netease, usto I can't help but thinking, Okay, This isn't the end of the line. What's Jason? What's the underlying trend here that's going on in the coding world? Yeah, sure. I'll put it in, maybe in >> my own lens. Given my history, you nominal WebSphere app server guy. You know that in the first half of my career I built that Andi, >> I think the fundamental >> problem solving is actually exactly the same. It's like, how do you build a platform that's app developers focus on building their APS, and I'll focus on all the plumbing and the infrastructure for running those aps. We did that twenty years ago in Java with APP servers, and we're doing it now with cloud, and we're doing it on top of containers. Things like usto like, while they're important in their own right there really actually Mohr important because they're just part of this bigger puzzle that we're putting together. And I think for the average suffer developer, they shouldn't really have to care about. What part of this deal will part is is Cuban eighties. And which part is K native like all that needs to come together into a single platform that they can use to build their APS and run them security. Right? And and I think it's Seo is just recognizing that next piece. You know, I think we've all agreed on containers and communities. We all talk about it all the time, and it's tio Is that next layer I catalyze securing >> control things. Yeah. So you teed it up nicely because we want out. Developers just be able to worry about the application. So you mentioned K native. The whole server list trend is one where you know the idea, of course, is I shouldn't have to worry about the infrastructure layer it just be taking care of me. We've talked about it for pass for a number of years. There are various ways to do it. So at, uh, Cube Colin and we've been looking for about the last year. Now you know, Where does you No, Crew, Burnett, ease and surveillance. How do they fit together? And K Native looks to be a pieces. Toe bridge. Some of those barrels? Absolutely. Where are we and what? What? What's? What's IBM doing there? >> So I think >> you rightly say that they should fit together like they're all part of this continuum of how developers build APS. And, you know, if you look at server, less applications, you know, there's the servos to mention I'm personally not a big service terminology fan. I think they're Maura about event oriented computing. And how do you have a good model for event oriented systems today? With Cuba Netease, anise Teo, I think we've built the base platform, I think, with a native what we're doing is bringing server lists and also just kind of twelve factor applications into the fold in a more formal way on when we get all those pieces together and we integrate them. I think then developers really unleashed to just build their application, whatever way it makes the most sense for what they're doing. And some things like server lists of Anna Marie. And it's going to be easier. And some problems. Straight containers will be an easier way to do >> it. You know, you say you don't like survivalists you like event better a function. So so explain that to the audience, like Why? Why should we care? And why is that different? How is that different? Yeah, I think, for >> a couple things. First off, the idea of server lists applies much more broadly than just what we think of this kind of function based program. You know, like any system that does a good job of managing and masking the infrastructure below me, you could consider a surveillance system, right? So when you just say server Lis, it's kind of like secondhand for functions. I'd rather we just kind of say, functions because that's actually a different programming model where you kind of trigger off of events and you write a functional piece of code and the system takes care of those details. You could argue that caught foundries, a server list system in the sense that you just as a developer anyway, you just see if push your code and it just runs and its scales and it does whatever you need, right? So part of my mission, you know, part of what I look at a lot is how do we bring all these things together in a way that is easy for the developer to stay focused. It steals a great example. You know, one of things were announcing this week is managed osteo support as part of our community service. What does that really mean? It means the developer can use the capability Viste without worrying about How do I install in Rennes D'oh, which they don't really care about? They just really care about how they get value out of its capability. >> Yeah, that's one of the things that having watched all these crew Benetti system and the like is how many companies really need to understand how to build this and run that because can I just get it delivered to me as a service? And therefore that you know that whole you know what I want out of cloud? I want a simple model to be able to consume, Not necessarily. I want to build the stuff that's important to me and not the rest of you. >> And I think if you look at the industry, there's really, I think, kind of two dominant consumption models that have actually emerged for people really using these things, there's public cloud platforms you're delivering things as a service. And then there's kind of platform software stacks like open shifts like I've been called private, which take all of these pieces and bring them together. And I think for most developers, they'll consume in one of those two ways because they don't really want the task of how to assemble all these pieces together. >> Tio, go back to the service piece like what? One distinction I heard made is okay. If I can really scale it down to zero, if I don't need to make it, then that can be serve a list. But there there's alternatives coming out there like what K native has. If I want to run this in my own environment, it's not turbulence because I do need toe. It might be functions, but I need to manage this environment. The infrastructure is my responsibility, not some >> service provider, right? And I think if you'll get server list to me, I was personally, I always think of it in kind of two scenarios. There's like surveillance as ah program remodel in a technology and surveillance as a business model, right? As a consumption model for payment. I think this programming model parts applicable in lots of cases, including private clouds. And in Custer, the business model parties, I think, frankly, unique to public. I'll thing that says I can just pay for the milliseconds of CPU, Compute that amusing and nothing more. >> That's a good thing for consumers. For >> the consumer, it's actually good thing for cloud providers because it gives us a way Tio reuse our infrastructure and creative ways, Right? But I think first and foremost, we have to get Mohr adoption of it as a programming model that developers used to build their applications and do it combined with other things. Because I think most realistic APs aren't gonna all be cirrhosis or all B Cooper nineties. They're going to be something. >> Yeah, right. It's like everything else. It's it's you know, what percent into the applications? Will this takeover? We had this discussion with virtual ization. We've been having this discussion with cloud and certain list, of course, is is pretty early in that environment. K native did I hear is there's some announcement this week that IBM >> so Soak a native, obviously is a project is kind of much earlier in its maturation and something like Castillo is. But we're making that available as part of our Republican private cards as well, Really? So people can get started with the ideas of K native. They can have an easy way to get that environment stood up, and they can start building those applications on DSO. That's now something that, you know, we're kind of bringing out as we work in the community to actually mature the project itself. >> Excellent. One of the things everybody's, of course, keeping an eye on. I saw Arvin Christian talking about the clouds. Tragedy is how red hat fits into all this. So we know you can't talk about kind of post acquisition. But red hats involved in K native. They're involved in a lot of the >> services and developers you gotta be exciting for. Yeah, >> it is. And obviously, like, Look, we've been partners for many years, you know, in on the open source side of things. We've worked closely with Red Hat for a long time. We actually view the world in very similar ways. You know, like you said, we're working on a native together. We've been working on Open West Feather. We obviously work in Cuban eighties together. So personally, I'm pretty excited about them coming in IBM. Assuming that acquisition goes through, they, you know, they fit into our strategy really well. And I think we'll just kind of enhance what we've all been working to build. >> All right, Jason, what else? What's looking? You talk about the maturity of these solutions, give us, um, guide post for the people watching the industry that we should be looking at as twenty nineteen rolls through >> us. So I think there's a >> couple things that, you know, I think this unified application platform notion that we've been kind of touching on here, I think will really come into its own in twenty nineteen. And and I would really love to see people kind of embraced that idea that we don't need. Three container stacks were not tryingto build these seven things. You know, one of things I'm kind of excited about with a native is by bringing server lists and twelve factor into Cuba Netease. It allows each of those frameworks to be kind of the best they can be at their part of the problem space and not solved unrelated problems. You know, I looked at the kind of server less versus coop camps, you know, the purest. And both think all problems will be solved in their camp. Which means they tried to solve all problems. Like, how do I do state full systems and server, Wes. And how do I bring in storage and solve all these things that maybe containers is better at. So I think this unification that I see happening will allow us to have really high efficiency, twelve factor and surveillance in the context of Koob and will change how people are able to use these platforms. I think twenty nineteen is really about adoption of all of this stuff. You know, we still are really early, frankly, in the kind of container adoption landscape, and I think most people in the broader industry or just kind of getting their feet wet they all agree that they're all trying, but they're just starting, and he knows a lot of interesting work. >> Jason, are there any anything that air holding people back? Anything that you You know what? What do you see is some of the things that might help accelerate some of this adoption? >> Yeah, I think one of the things that's >> holding people back is just the diversity of options that exists in the cognitive space means you guys have all probably rising like the C in C F landscape chart. I've never seen so many icons on something in my life. That's really frightening for the average enterprise. To look at a picture like that and go like which of these things are going to be useful, which are going to exist in a year like how Doe, I bet, make that sort >> of those things. So I think that's actually >> help people back a lot. I think that kind of agreement around communities that happened in the last eighteen months or so was really liberating, for a lot of people have helped them kind of move forward there. I think if we can all agree on a few more pieces around this deal, reckon native like it'll really help kind of unlock people and get them trying actually doing it. And I don't think it's anything more than picking a project and starting. I think a lot of enterprises over analyze everything, and they just need to pick something and go and learn. And they'll >> so pick some narrow use case pick, pick an app, pick >> a use case and go do it right and you'll learn and you'll figure out how it works for you. And then you do the second and the fourth in the tenth. And before you know it, you're on your way. That's what we did at IBM ourselves, and you know, now we're running our whole entire public out on top of communities. >> Jason and any any warnings from that kind of experience that you trade to users? A CZ. They looked forward. >> Yeah, we had a >> lot of learnings from music. One is we could run a heck of a lot more diverse work less than we thought when we started. You know, we're running databases where any data warehouses, running machine learning. We're running Blockchain. We're running every kind of application you didn't think could ever work on containers on containers s so one of the lessons Wass. It's much more flexible than you think. It isthe right. The >> other thing is you >> really have to rethink everything. Like the way you do compliance, the way you do security, the way you monitor the system. Like all of those things I need to change because the underlying kind of container system enables you to solve them in such a powerful way. And so if you go into it just thinking, Oh, I'm just going to change this one part of how I do aps and the rest will change. I think you'll find in a year that you're changing the whole operating model around your environment. >> Well, Jason, rethink everything we're here at IBM. Thing up twenty nineteen. Thinks is always for catching up with Thanks for everything going on for David. Want a, um, stew? Minutemen got three more days of live coverage here for Mosconi North. If you hear, stop by and say hi or reach out to us on the interwebs. Thanks so much for watching the cues.

>> Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. (upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back, and we're here live with CUBE coverage here in Seattle for KubeCon + CloudNativeCon. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman is here, and Jason McGee. Who's an IBM fellow, CTO of IBM's Cloud platform, Kube alumni. Great to see you. Welcome back. >> Great to be here. >> I want to jump right in. You got a talk coming up, you got a show here that's doubling in size. The community is clearly resonates around Kubernetes. >> Yeah absolutely. >> Which is goodness for the industry. We covered that last year, how people started to snap in in getting it. Bringing it together, seeing visibility into value points where people can co-exist and create value. But we're now going to the next level. Cloud's certainly been validated, the hybrid cloud, on premises and public cloud. Working? >> Yeah >> Customers are seeing it, uptake is there. Where's the big thread now that's being worked on? Because, as going to the next level, it's an app market. We've also got some systems in there. Where do you see this coming together? I know you're giving a talk on this. >> Yeah I think, at the end of the day, people are trying to run applications. That's what this game has always been about. They have applications they're trying to build and run. They run their business. And I think, as a community, this group of people here has been working together to build that platform. And I think it's been actually incredible to watch the last couple of years. Everyone rallying round Kubernetes and Containers. That agreement amongst everyone happened so much faster than I thought it would. I was pretty confident two or three years ago that Kube was the right path forward, but that everyone came there has been pretty amazing. And I think what's happening now is, well what about stateless Twelve-Factor apps? What about functions? What about the rest of the stack? And how do we all come together as a community to find that going forward? >> Talk about the role of functions and as compute storage and networking that we call the holy trinity of IT. Those things have changed with Cloud, but specifically compute. I mean, I used to say, "Spin up a server in 10 seconds." Well I need now, milliseconds. So you see functions in, you know Amazon with Lambda, these things are changing the game. Now with containers and functions, a dynamic is evolving pretty interestingly. How do you see that evolving, and the impact of that piece? Because compute certainly is goodness to a lot of things. >> Sure, I think functions is interesting 'cause there's kind of two angles on it. There's functions as a business model, and functions as an architecture. And I think the architecture part, the programmable part is quite interesting. There are certain styles of applications, mostly Ven-oriented applications, where that is a really natural way to solve a problem. And I think what platforms are all about is having the platform be rich enough that for diversity workloads that you're running it's easy to consume the platform. And so, us all agreeing on functions as a programming model and getting that in the platform, and integrated with Kubernetes, and integrated with Istio, I think will enable people to build apps much more quickly. >> You see that's a good size right now? Good signals? >> Yeah. The Knative project is a great example of something new. >> Yeah Jason, I wonder if we can pull on that thread a little bit there? Because the holy grail has always been, I just want to worry about my application and all that storage and networking stuff should just work. When we went to virtualization it helped to a level, but that was just an abstraction. What's the same and what's different about when we go to something like functions, compared to what we've been doing in the past? >> Well, I think there's a couple things. First, I think IT is under this kind of, we're trying to flip the model. For my whole 20+ year career, IT has been mostly about infrastructure, and we started at infrastructure and we built our way up to apps. And what I think we've been trying to do with Kubernetes and with Knative is flip it, and start at apps and move our way down. Now Kube was a good step in that journey but it's still pretty raw, you know? You still have storage abstractions, you still have networking abstractions. What you want is for certain workloads to not worry about any of that, and functions and also Twelve-Factor systems, like Cloud Foundry, both play a role and if you fit within a paradigm we can get rid of all of that for you. And that's what developers want. And it doesn't work for everything. Not every application follows the rules. And I think Cloud Foundry has a particular opinionated view of twelve-factor stateless apps, functions has a particular opinionated view of event-orientated apps. We need those abstractions, and we need them to be done consistently with the rest of the platform, so you can kind of mix and match as you see fit. >> Istio has gotten hot too, so service batches are coming in. I know there's been some debate around how much does Kubernetes become or staying core. Last year we had big conversations around the core and let things fill in around it. Your thoughts on this trend and how people are thinking about it and what's being actually implemented? >> So my view is, I think the community has done a good job in letting different projects fill in their role, but us all agreeing on the stack. I mean container being Kubernetes, and Istio, and Knative, Prometheus. All these things are kind of slotting into their place, and I think in general we've done a good job of avoiding one mega system design. And I think CNCF has done a good job of letting a few competitors play with each other in the community, and make each other better. >> Jason, you bring up such a great point there, because one of the things when we reach this size and there are so many people here, there's the obvious comparison to, is this OpenStack? And you've just brought up one of the biggest things that I've seen is, before it was like, okay well how many different pieces are in the core and I've got the big tent and all these things, but it all needed to live together, as opposed to here, I've got all of these components and, in many ways we're trying to decompose Kubernetes and we've got all these various pieces, and they're not all dependent on each other and we don't all have to agree. There can be, from observability, for management, there's so many different ways that I can take the pieces and put them together. So, I would love your viewpoint as to what we're getting right now? And how do we not duplicate some of the sins of the past? >> Yeah, I mean, first off it's always something that a community as vibrant as this has to keep their eye on. It's like, is it all getting out of control? So far I think we've all done a good job because we've been very application oriented, and we've also been very focused on real usage. Most of the technologies we're talking about here, people are really using in production, ad-scale... There's somebody who has real earning behind that. And I think it's driven good decision-making. I think one of the, maybe, unsung things about Kubernetes is the extensibility model, that's built into Kubernetes. The loose coupling that's built into this community has been incredibly powerful. Because it's allowed new things, like Istio is a great example. We, with Google and Lyft and others, built Istio. We built it in this completely native experience inside of Kubernetes without changing anything about Kubernetes. We were able to insert it into the system in a very natural way. And I think that allows us to experiment and figure out where we need to go without it becoming this big mess. >> Scale's great, and that's a key value of the Cloud. Security is number one. What's your view on security? How's that going? What are end users experiencing? How serious is a security issue? Recently Kubernetes seemed to work, from the recovery standpoint, to automate it pretty quickly. But security is a concern. It's top of mine. You've got the security containment boundary there, the boundary within containers, you've got role of DMs. How do a new dimension... How do you view the security piece of Kubernetes? So I think it's letting us solve those problems in completely different ways. The holy grail for a long time has been get to standardized systems. And I think with Containers, we're as close as we've ever been. And I wouldn't say we're there, but we're awfully close to having a model where we've got clean separation between the application layer and the system. We can plug in security. We can do image enforcement. We can do scanning. We can do firewalling and network stuff in very different ways. Even Istio. Istio, at the end of the day, a lot of what people are interested in with Istio is the security idea. Like, I can do a cryptic communications between microservices, and that's all kind of done for me in the infrastructure underneath. So I think security is important. I think we're making it easier for developers to be successful building secure systems with platforms like we're talking about here. Because we're able to solve them in new ways. >> We've got IBM Think coming up. theCUBE will be there February, I think 15th? >> 12th to the 15th >> 12th to the 15th, in San Fransisco. What are you guys going to be talking about at IBM Think for folks that are going, or people might want to sign up. Plug for theCUBE and IBM Think there for a quick second. What's going to be there? What's the focus with an IBM... You guys got a lot of customers. What's their resonance to Kubernetes? How are they thinking about it? How are they consuming it? Will you share a little bit about what's coming up for them? >> Yeah, at IBM we're focused on helping customers make that journey to Cloud, and we're very pragmatic. We understand the complexity of the environments they have. They're building awesome new Cloud Native stuff, they have a bunch of existing middleware workloads. So we're going to be talking a lot about how we help you get there and how you handle the diversity of workloads. We're going to talk a lot about technology, about Kubernetes. We're going to do some fun stuff. We're going to do an awesome... We have a session that's all drones, flying drones demo of how Kubernetes works. Like all live, maybe somebody'll get hurt; I'm not sure. But we're going to do some awesome tech demos. >> We've heard a little bit of discussion about IoT here but not a lot about AI when it comes here. And I wondered if you might be able to help connect the dots for us? >> Yeah, so I'd say two things. AI is its whole own domain. I think the intersection with AI and a conference like this is Kubernetes is the platform for AI too. At IBM we run all of Watson on Kubernetes. We run all of our machine-learning and deep-learning systems by Kubernetes. So it is becoming the platform for AI developers as well, to be able to be successful, taking advantage of all the compute resource, custom hardware and stuff that's available in Cloud. So I think there's a strong intersection, of this being the platform for those workloads. >> So on the Cloud Native stuff, we know we've been covering you guys for a long time. You had SoftLayer in acquisition, but even before SoftLayer you had Bluemix. Bluemix was developing a lot of Cloud Native technologies. How is the result of the years of investment around Bluemix changing or evolving with the rise of Kubernetes and the rise of these new sets of microservices? Because you got operations impact, you got developer impact, you've the the simplicity model you were just talking about. How is IBM bringing that to bear? Can you share some inside commentary on what's happening? >> Over the last 2+ years, we've been building up the platform I've been describing to you in our cloud. We made a decision that Kubernetes was the foundation, both for the existing apps to modernize and for new things. And then we've been taking our serverless platform, our Cloud Foundry investment, our DevOps tools, and bringing them all together. My goal is to build that new platform. As an old web seer guy from 20 years ago, I saw the value in the industry rallying round a common platform for apps. I think we can do that again. I think we've made so much progress. And at IBM we're trying to drive that thought, both in our products and in these community interactions. >> Talk about that dynamic you mentioned... We were talking about before we came on camera here, about how I was saying it's a systems world now. People who have a different mindset seem to resonate well with Cloud. You mentioned the app server days, those blurry days. There's a renaissance of those two dimensions going on. Just share you thoughts on that. I thought you had an interesting insight. >> I think it's interesting. Cloud is absolutely a systems kind of problem. It's how do you bring hardware and networking, abstractions around compute, all these pieces together, and do it in a way that's composable. I think that's the really interesting part of Cloud, is you have a hundred things that all on their own have to have solid capability, and then you have to be able to mix and match them. And you can't do that unless you take a systems view. That security is the same, the user experience is the same, APIs are the same. And it's been actually really challenging to do that in the context of OpenSource, because every OpenSource project has its own viewpoints on how you do authentication, and authorisation, users, and getting all this stuff to work together is hard. And so I do think we have a little bit of a resurgence of people who understand how to build complete end-to-end systems. >> And then once you enable that you have some horizontally scalable capabilities, you got data and virtual specialization. >> You can specialize and you can have some common base. >> So now at the top, above that, is the app server kind of vibe that you went through. That's kind of happening now. You see that. >> Absolutely. >> And we see it for our clients and ourselves. All of IBM Cloud we've moved to run on the same platform. We run all of our services on Kubernetes. And so we've kind of used the platform ourselves to prove how it can handle this diverse set of workloads. >> This is really disruptive. I think that's a great angle. Jason, thanks for sharing that on theCUBE. We really want to get that out. Cloud is disrupting IT, open source communities, and the developer market, both horizontal scale and new kinds of application environments. It's certainly exciting. Thanks for having us here at KubeCon. Three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman. And day one. Stay with us for more interviews after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> From Yorktown Heights, New York, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Cloud Analyst Summit, brought to you by IBM. >> Hi, I'm Wikibon's Peter Burris. Welcome back to theCUBE coverage of IBM Innovation Day, here at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, New York. Great series of conversations, and this next one also is going to be a great conversation, with Jason McGee, who's an IBM Fellow, VP and CTO of Cloud Platform here at IBM. Jason, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, we've had a lot of great conversations about what does open mean, where is the cloud going, what is the role of developers in this whole thing, but I want to dig a little bit deeper into this kind of core question. The cloud suggests a new model for computing. I would also think that would mean that there's a new model for development on the horizon. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Can you talk to us a little bit about that? >> Yeah, sure, I mean, I think that's absolutely true. I think one of the core things that people are trying to get out of cloud these days is development velocity, you know. For many years, of course, one of the key pressures in IT has been how do I do stuff more quickly, and that's gone through many iterations over time, but I think cloud today, people are really trying to figure out how to leverage cloud as a platform for speed of development, and the combination of services on cloud, and new development models like microservices, and new technologies like containers are all kind of contributing elements in helping people solve this problem, how do I build stuff more quickly. >> So, with all that new technology, is a new mindset required? Does somebody think about the problem differently, does somebody break the problem down differently? How do you start with that notion of looking at a business requirement or business outcome, and translate it into the technology? We used to just create code. Now we're doing something different. >> Yeah, I think the first thing you have to do is think about how to organize people. You know, software development at the end of the day is a sport amongst people and you have to think about how to break up the problem, and so, like microservices, a lot of us think of microservices as a technology. It's not really a technology, it's really a philosophy about how to attack a problem with a group of people, it's about how to organize, and its fundamental idea is break it into independent parts, and allow a small team of people to not only develop that part but to own it end-to-end, you know, like the old development model was development, test, production, hand it over the wall to operations. The new model is break it into small problems and then have a team own the whole thing end-to-end, and with that new organizational philosophy comes new architectures for apps, new technologies to help you do that, and new platforms to run things on. >> So, as we think about that, that suggests that the approach to software from a licensing standpoint, from what are you buying, what are you installing is also going to change. How do you foresee, and what is IBM preparing customers for in this kind of new world where software is a service coming from a lot of different places as opposed to a license with, you know, 800 million lines of code or eight billion lines of code behind it? >> Yeah, it's interesting. I think these new ideas are enabled by things like cloud. Part of the reason that cloud has enabled this new model to be feasible is because you get, for example, consumption-based pricing. You can use a wide variety of technologies, you can pick the right tool for the job, you can pay for just what you use, and therefore, the old models of static software licensing and big platforms can start to fade away as these small teams are able to kind of pick the right tool for the job, and that wouldn't be possible in a world without like, as a service delivery, and meter pricing, and things like that, because you would have to consolidate to fewer choices and buy bigger chunks of things. >> As you said, microservices is more of a philosophical approach to how you think about software, and it's also predicated on that wonderful notion of REST. A great paper was written a number of years ago on APIs. IBM has kind of an interesting role in the industry, though. IBM has got to bring a whole bunch of customers with highly stateful applications forward into the cloud. Kubernetes, great for stateful. How are we going to address that tension between the stateless world of greenfield applications and the stateful legacy that has to move into this new world? >> Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I mean, I think a lot of times new trends emerge and it's easy to ignore the past, but the lesson I've learnt in over 20 years in IT is like, nothing ever goes away, right, and so you have to not only define the future, but you have to figure out how to help people get there. I actually think part of the reason technologies like Kubernetes are so dominant right now is because they actually do a reasonable job at both. You know, Kubernetes and containers are a great platform for the kind of new architectures and for adopting these new methodologies we're talking about, but they can also accommodate the existing apps, and you can move existing apps into these new platforms, and so, that helps give people a path. They can move something they have and then slowly re-factor it, or they can move something they have and build new things around it, and they could do all that with platforms like Kubernetes as an enabler, right? And it's been interesting to watch. Like, at IBM, we obviously make Kubernetes available, both in our public and private clouds, but we're also big users, and we run all of our cloud services on that platform. Stateful databases, AI and machine learning workloads, analytics platforms, stateless web apps, like, the whole lot, we've been able to run on a platform like that. >> Talk to me a little bit about this notion of cloud operating model and how we manage that, because it seems to me as though the user adoption of a lot of these new technologies are going to be facilitated if we can put forward a management platform that uses those technologies to manage those technologies. What's the relationship there between the evolution of management? Is that a leading edge of how we are going to see people adopt some of these technologies? >> It's certainly a very kind of critical component of the story. I mean, if you really believe in the idea that where we want to move to is this kind of microservice model of small teams that run things themselves, then you get into the question of, all right, well, if you have eight people whose job is to run something in production, they need to be able to do that efficiently, right? You can't have complex operational processes, you need a lot of really good tools, it needs to be really easy for them, 'cause you're asking people to have a really vast set of knowledge, and so, it's driving the evolution of management philosophies. You're seeing new technologies, like SDO, for example, emerge, which are allowing like an application person to define policy about security, and access, and networking that normally would've required like a network expert to go to. >> And more, which makes it a very powerful platform. >> Powerful platform, right, but I think it's coming out of this realization that like, if that small team of people ever want to sleep, and when they have to run things, they're going to need tools to help them do that. So it's been interesting to watch that kind of circular evolution of these different domains. >> So, 20 years of experience from web-sphere forward. Let's think about the next five years. Where is the biggest innovation going to happen in software? >> Well, I mean, there's the obvious stuff around the application of AI, but the part that I'm most excited about is I think we've been on an arc over the last 20 years, to make the application the center of IT. You know, historically, infrastructure has been the center of IT. You start a project, you buy a server, you install an operating system, you set up management tools. >> That's been a big asset. >> The center has been the infrastructure and you build your way up. And I think as velocity has become dominant, we've been trying to flip it and say, I'm building an app. Let me focus on the app, and focus on what the app needs, and drive the requirements down, and I don't think we're done yet. I think there's a lot more to do there, but that's the path we're on. I think over the next five years, we'll really get there, where as an app team, I don't really have to think about infrastructure, and I can have the system adapt to the needs of the application. >> Do you foresee a point where the data and the application are increasingly and further broken apart? >> The data and the application? I don't know that they're going to be further broken apart, but I think we'll see more kind of intelligent scheduling and combinations of those things, like there are cases where the data needs to be king, and the application needs to come to the data, and vice versa, and historically, the data world and the app world have been pretty separate, right, and you know, again, if we think teams are going to run their things, then just like they're doing ops and dev, they're going to have to do apps and data, right, and so, there's an opportunity there to bring those worlds closer. I see some of it, but, you know, Kubernetes as an example, as a common operational platform for both kinds of systems, but there's more, for sure. >> So bring it together when it makes the most amount of sense, keep it separate when other people need to use the data. >> Stop assuming you have specialists in every technology, and assume you have a multi-disciplinary team that has to run it all. >> All right, Jason, one more question. February, San Francisco, IBM takes it over with IBM Think. A lot of users, a lot of new questions being raised, a lot of opportunity for learning, a lot of opportunity for networking. What are you hoping to accomplish? What conversations do you want to have at Think? >> Yeah, I'm really excited, I think, to have conversations with clients about how they're actually adapting to this new world. I think sometimes the biggest challenge is not technology, but how organizations assimilate these ideas, and so, I'm excited for the conversations with customers about what problems they're solving, sharing those experiences with each other, and also practitioners. I think we've moved into a world where IT is dominated by the people who actually do the work, by the practitioners, and I really hope to see a lot of them show up at Think in February and share with us what they're doing. >> Jason McGee, IBM Fellow, VP, CTO, Cloud Platform here at IBM. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> And once again, this is Peter Burris from the Thomas J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights. You've been watching theCUBE. Stay tuned. (techno music)

from Yorktown Heights New York it's the queue coverings IBM cloud innovation be brought to you by IBM hi I'm Peter Burris and we have wrapped our the cubes coverage of IBM innovation day here at the Thomas J Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights now for anybody that's been in the industry for a while you know that this is one of the mecca's of the computing industry this is where an enormous number of innovations have taken place innovations about relating to semiconductor processes and you know CPU architectures innovations relating to middleware and innovations relating to database management and very importantly innovations relating to how customers and companies engage to be more successful with technology and in many respects that's really what's happening with the overall drive to cloud is to bring closer together that invention that takes place and pushes forward what technology can do and then a delivery model that's focused on ensuring the customers can actually more easily do it and IBM is absolutely part of that conversation we'll be going forward especially as we think about how those high-value legacy applications are going to be employed within a cloud context to further drive transaction capabilities with event capabilities in the cloud we've had some great conversations we've heard for example from Hilary hunter who's a CTO here at cloud infrastructure about the new role that opend plays within innovation how IBM is trying to further leverage that with the Red Hat acquisition we've had great conversations with Jason McGee talking about how the developer mindsets evolving in response to some new innovations with cloud we've heard from a number of other individuals I won't list them all but if I were trying to summarize the three points that I think kept coming through it's number one the cloud does force changes to the way you think about business problems and methods tooling and approaches for doing that are starting to mature very rapidly Micro services for an example for example is not just a technology it's also an approach to thinking about a problem and that informs everything I did the second thing that we've heard is that can't just talk about greenfield applications we've had this enormous investment in applications have been running businesses for a long time of those applications tend to be very stateful they tend to be very database driven they tend to be very operational in nature those applications have to move forward if nothing more from at least from a management standpoint how can we bring a management mindset an operating model of the cloud to start to channel or structure change and evolve how we manage those applications but ultimately bring new classes of services to those applications I think the last one that we've heard over and over and over it that this really is gonna require a strong community we have to take a community approach to invention you have to take a community approach to innovation and the social change is required to take advantage of technology and achieve the business outcomes that we want and if one thing has come through loud and clear through all the conversations is that that this year IBM think or I didn't think 2019 San Francisco is gonna be a great place to be able to get together with peers and have those conversations and think about the outcomes that enterprises want to achieve and then talk to people that can actually help you get there and one of the things that I find interesting about think this year is that the industry's changing we're seeing new rules or evolution of roles and an evolution of how those roles work together and think is actually starting to reflect that it's manifesting itself itself there's a couple of campuses one that's focused more on data and AI a very very natural binding or combining and one that's focused more on infrastructure and cloud again very natural so I hope to see be able to carry on and continue these conversations we've had today at IBM think and hope to see you there as well so once again this is Peter Burris Ricky bond the cube from the IBM from the from the illustrious from the vaunted Thomas J Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights thanks very much for watching the cube today [Music]