from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape digital transformation is the operative watchword today but what does it mean from a cxos standpoint and how do you take those perspectives and bring them into an organization to affect its strategy and turn that strategy into action hi everybody this is Dave Allen say welcome to this cube conversations of CXO perspectives I'm here with Paul Lewis who's CTO of Americas from Hitachi ventaja Paul thanks for coming down from Toronto thanks very much I appreciate always great to be in Boston okay let's start with you in your background you're a CIO by trade been with Hitachi and now Hitachi Bonterra for a few years but tell us about your background yeah so I've been here about five years running the office of the CTO which is a highly vertical based organization prior to that I was a CIO CTO of a financial services organization for about 17 years operating technology sort of being a practitioner of what it means to create applications and operate IT and implement projects and worry about you know the blinking lights in a data centre so it's a very different world being on the manufacturer side but getting to see different verticals different industries and applying that it's been intellectually appealing so something I want to come back to exceed you were CIO and CTO which is not uncommon but often times that you know CIO is you know more in a strategy or a pure business role you had both so we'll come back to that when we talk about you know organizational issues but let's start with digital transformation as I said at the top it's the buzz word you go to every conference digital transformation you must you you must not get eaten by your competitors you must be the disrupter etc etc but what does digital transfer transformation mean to you as a CTO CIO from a customer's perspective so I see it much more as being having a customer perspective when you look at your business strategy so in as much as people say sort of customer 360 or you're taking a customer centric approach it's not really that it's it's saying how do I look at my business and evaluate it from the customers point of view so you know the three aspects of digital transformation is operational efficiency new business models and of course the new customer experience so operational efficiency says you if I'm doing a whole bunch of things or to deliver value a product or service but the only thing the customer sees is what's on the shelf and what's available to purchase then everything I do behind the scenes logistics is up for grabs maybe I do it's not an azimuth amia what's on the shelf so maybe somebody else can do it make that efficiency in terms of new business models if all my competitors especially those new digital disruptors have a new way of engaging with the client and the payment maybe it's a credit card versus cash you know capital versus op X maybe I need to diversify my portfolio to be equivalent to that to find customers that I'm currently not getting and then finally new customer experiences this is the customer point of view to say the customer wants to buy from you in a certain way so you better start to sell your products and service in the way to which they want to buy just because your products on the Shelf and the customer wants to buy from you online means you have to also be online and if your customer wants to buy from your competitor your product should be at your competitor right so you've got to think about how the customer buys not just how you sell so all that sort of business strategy so we could poke that a little bit so in a positive way so when you go back to pre-internet days the brand's had all the power right the retail companies knew what the pricing was you know the the the spreads in the stock market were really large we had Nasdaq on last week at Pentaho world all we talked about is how they're becoming basically a technology company to sell their services to others if they are transforming digitally so my my point and question to you is isn't a lot of digital transformation about how you use data to compete and actually maybe regain some of that you know market power or or or at least catch up to where the consumers are cuz the consumers today have all the advantage don't they well data certainly is a value producer versus sort of a side effect that it used to be but it is fair that the consumers have much more buying power than they have before and that's that's in many ways because of those disruptors those disruptors are creating new options for consumers and option and now consumers have that choice in fact the cut the consumerization as a whole as changing how consumers even perceive companies right so if I can download an app and if I don't like it an hour I can delete that up and download they can also choose your product in the same way they're gonna buy your product they don't like it they're gonna throw it away and buy somebody else's product they now have the ultimate choice to do anything they wish buy from anybody they want to locally or globally the globalization concept is changing the way you need to distribute your products and services to yes so the power actually in influence has gone to the consumer and it's only data that you can produce and you can consume externally that'll give you that insight to determine where I need to put my puck right where I need to hockey analogy where I need to ensure that I need to have my product and service and available before the customer wants it or even perceived to want it versus sort of waiting behind the scenes so the big difference between let's say being digital versus non digital is the data yeah but what does that mean to a CTO and a CIO so okay data that's the big difference not what I would say let's take it from the top so if the CEO now is focused on creating more value quicker they probably hire a chief digital officer that's focused on those three pillars if the organization is not that big they might have the CIO perform that function that means the CIO is less about order-taking and more about value creation the only way they're gonna be of value creators if they move from an application centric world of IT to a data centric world of IT and I use an analogy of applications infrastructure and applications I'm gonna go through that way yeah so here's your more about there's the difference between infrastructure applications and data if I look at infrastructure at lasts let's say three to five years I might be able to sweat it out any longer but if I do I'm gonna have performance scalability availability problems if I add more infrastructure to infrastructure it's gonna cost me more money I need more space I need more power and more rack right same kind of true on the application side if I that the last maybe seven to nine years maybe sweated out any longer I have seen performance of scalability problems if I add more applications to applications I have modernization as simplification and rationalization problems and it's not the number of applications that matter it's that I have the same function point recreated across five to ten different applications and five different 10 teams worrying about it same cost issue and and and data quality issue absolutely but data is in fact the opposite to that data is valuable to me from the point that I created the point that I deleted if I ever delete it in fact seeing data change over time is more valuable than seeing it static in its initial State if I add more data to data the bigger potential pot of gold I have and the Nuggets that I can find the more precise my algorithms become the more insightful I'll be able to create from a client's perspective for a firm product or transaction perspective in fact it is the value creator for IT versus the side effect that it's always been so if you remove the centricity from the CIO form application which is red green yellow projects to data being the value creator you start to be a major player in the digital transformation organization instead of sort of being the order taker project so there was a lot of things you said in there that made a lot of sense to me let me start with sort of the infrastructure that a lot of CIOs have spend have to spend their time keeping the lights on and that's not a value producing activity we can agree there were in still are many CIOs that sir were application-centric as you were saying and they would add a lot of value through those applications they have you know sharp application development team they could differentiate through those applications but increasingly when I talk to CIOs you see more sass coming into play and they're trying to avoid custom modifications so when I ask them well how do you differentiate the differentiation is the data the data and the IP that we build around that data the way that data helps us monetize whether it's directly or indirectly is our new differentiator but that's a big shift isn't it it's a large shift because they're they're completely application centric all their projects are about versioning of applications all their infrastructures creating highly available for applications so the big shift is say how do I create an organization that's data centric as a whole how to create a chief data officer and that data officer is elevated to be the peer of in many ways the VP of application the VP of M their organization has all the data centric responsibilities they have storage and protection and governance and analytics and stewardship they are the measured by the value they produce for the organization whether that's operational efficiency or revenue versus the projects to which they deliver on and that way the output of IT is not just projects it's not just spend but it's in fact revenue or profit let's talk about the organizational roles I said I wanted to come back to that and I do I you know you know the jokes CI o stands for career is over I was interviewing John haladki who was the CIO of Beth Israel Hospital a while back at MIT one of the shows we do and he was not optimistic about the role of the CIO Easter Day could disappear and the conversation it was a CDO conference chief data officer conference the conversation was well CIOs need to pick a path and you've got some experience here they either have to become CTOs or they have to become chief data officer x' now that was maybe two years ago I think the narrative has changed a little bit and people have calmed down about that but you've seen this these roles emerge chief data officer chief digital officer we just talked about how digital equals data so I actually see those two roles as you know more closely you know aligned or not depending on on the user but and the CIOs role I think you know and becoming more clear as as a business and strategy person but I wonder if you could weigh in as a former CI o-- / CTO current CTO you talk to a lot of customers how do you see organizations you know what's the right regime right regimes not the right that's not the proper term but what's the regime's that you see emerging I think the big shift determining what those organization roles are from standardization to verse2 diversification so it's less about single provider single process single implementation having a single set of IT services for all the potential workloads and more like what does the business and specific the line of business require and then how am I going to support that so it's now I'm going to have internal services I'm gonna have a private cloud I'm gonna use public cloud offerings I'm gonna have managed services I'm gonna go to third-party offerings I'm going to use a bunch of sass I'm going to consume a lot of cloud versions of ERP type products and that's the complexity of my environment and if that's the complexity of my environment that's the complexity and change of the shift of the roles the CIO now has to be less about project delivery in other words creating applications and more about managing an ecosystem of diverse deployments they have to manage relationships with public clouds they have to manage and create business offerings with the CFO and the CEO and the chief corporate officer in terms of creating new acquisitions or mergers right the CTO is focused on creating a highly secure framework of delivery so that not only the IT shop can deliver on value but all that shadow IT that's happening outs external to greet create a platform and a secure platform for them to deliver because the reality is of every hundred dollars of the CIO has there's $250 out in the business so why don't you make it 350 million it's $350 IT budget instead of 101 you do that by providing platforms and so therefore the CIO is part of the business leader versus being the IT leader the CTO is looking at platforms and therefore the chief data officer becomes the value producer they're the one focused almost entirely on creating revenue or creating so much efficiency in the organization that the profit margins dramatically increase so now business perspective business perspective business perspective and everything underlying is ecosystem it's not everything that I built it's things that I consume externally Wow okay so again a lot of things you said in there that make some sense that I want to better understand so the chief data officer as you described it sort of job one for her or him is to is understand how to essentially make money with data right all right and and again I don't want to say go sell your data because that's not always the answer but you're saying draw you can drive efficiencies and that the simplest form you can cut cost you can increase revenue or you can make better decisions right that's the whole champion in Channel your concept you can have a better understanding of your clients or your products and more importantly have a better understanding of clients - which currently don't purchase your products right how do I look at internal information and compared to external data to say oh how are those other consumers that are going to other my other disruptors what are they purchasing and why can't I produce something that's like or at least competitive in that world so you started off this conversation with three things operational efficiency new business models and the customer experience so there's certainly the chief data officer as you just mentioned can affect operational efficiency ways to cut cost you know through data and I guess they touch new business models as well hey if we're gonna monetize our data directly or a partner or bring in other data and you know did we talk about Nasdaq before that's a completely new before even working with the finance office to say if I were to make changes to my business here would be the net financial effect right okay now the customer experience is that the domain of the chief digital officer really more in that customer facing still still a combination but I would agree that the chief digital officer focusing on creating to matching the selling experience with the buy experience and that might be new mobile interfaces this might be creating omni-channel experiences or expanding upon that to say how do we ensure that we have an integrated channel experience it's not just that they can bribe you know a shoe and the website a shoe in a store it's that they can go online look at the shoes go to the store have those shoes be brought down automatically as soon as I walked in and then choose whether I buy it now take it home buy it online have it delivered to my house before I get home or it's $5 cheaper five stores down right so that experience will be chief digital officer but all of that requires data one can't deliver on all that unless they have a a deep understanding of their products a deep understanding of how the transactions the deep understanding how clients buy all of that experience data based whether it's mobile or human created or business data all combined together in fact that's actually a great jump into the sort of the IOT world the machine or the physical world where I now need to appreciate data that's happening the store in the kiosk and all of that experience data needs to be brought back and combined with the financial data to really appreciate with the transition of that digital experience money so those those roles do really span you know your three areas I can see just thinking here and hearing you speak the chief digital officer might go to the chief data officer and say hey I need this data so I can create a customer experience that gives us competitive advantage and I need that data to be accessible of high quality I maybe need you pulling some other data points exact I need real-time I need a blended I need it integrated with my ERP make it so exactly exactly that can't be too hard and then then that involves the CIO to actually provide the infrastructure and whatever SAS or internal execution but find a means to solve the problem and it's not gonna always be built it's likely gonna be consumed it's likely gonna be buy it's likely gonna be partner and so that's part of that historically it was the application kind of tail wagging the dog now it's the data that was really sort of the driver of the bus which is why you really need what we referred to as a data strategy for digital transformation creating a set of services or capabilities that are focused much more on data than IT like we're used to saying IT services make sure you have computer and storage and networking available to you but now it's saying you know what you have business data let's make sure you have services like store and manage and govern you have human sets of data that's blend and correlate and match and then you have machine data well that's much more about grid and point and and IOT related correlations and need to bring all that together as a series of data servers to which IT provides to the chief digital officer okay you talked about the edge before how do you see I mean we're seeing the pendulum now swing back from centralized you know cloud sort of decentralized this notion of edge to cloud is probably not gonna happen it's gonna be some stuff in between but how do you see let's follow the data how do you see in Itachi and Hitachi event ARRA has obviously a perspective on this you guys are an industrial you know giant how what's Itachi ventajas perspective on how the edge will evolve generally but specifically how the data model and the data flow will change so we see an Enterprise Information model has having sort of four legs to this table right and that one should keep data where it is because sometimes it's physically impossible to move data from where it was created to where it needs to be for analytics a train is example and we produce you know a high speed train that could be four or five seven terabytes per day well that's almost physically impossible to move to a server to be able to deal with right and when you look at larger machines like nuclear power plants and well treatment centers all of a sudden it's almost impossible so this four legs are you know you still need an enterprise data warehouse you still need a means to collect your business data and produce your thousands of Mis reports they actually run the business that is a ten million dollar machine - what you've created you then need a you need a content store an object store because you have all this human unstructured data - which in fairness a good portion of what might be dark a good portion of it like your twenty seven versions of your PowerPoint simply won't have any production nuggets of gold right but you still have lots of voice and video records and unstructured files that that could contain nuggets then you have your your Big Data Lake where you want to put your information that you want to do perform an analytics on right.you it's it's you don't want to worry about the data model you don't want to worry about how you're structuring the information until you actually do analytics on it and then finally the edge keeping data where it is have a federated distributed model and only when I want to do and perform specific analytics do I go collect that information bring it to the core perform the analytics produce visualization result we kind of refer to this as a as a data refinement mechanism where I'm searching for the appropriate information using those mathematical statistical algorithms in order to create you know visualizations that we can blend right back into the original sources so a lot of data will be created at the edge and and it'll stay at the edge and in fact a lot of data probably won't be even be persisted at the edge it'll be may be acted on thrown away and you'll save what you need to save is that exactly and you and you could say that there's going to be data that's at the edge that persist or not you'll might have data which might be referred to as the fog where you will collect it at the CEO or at the PIO right and you one or the pop and you want to be able to perform analytics with a little bit more compute you might bring some of that data centrally because you want to combine and blend with other information and then you might actually put it into the cloud because you want to combine other organizational related data and do very complex highly mathematical problem sets so we almost see it from sort of edge to outcome where there's edge processing fog processing core processing and then cloud processing okay so let's unpack that a little bit in the time we have remaining so you got the at least the three maybe even a four maybe it's a three in a three a tier model edge that that second tier gateway right aggregation point where you're doing some analytics and then the third tier and I guess maybe the fourth tier let's call it your own cloud private cloud or maybe the public cloud where you're doing the heavy modeling right and the training of the models and then maybe your ship in the model back down that's forever because it's now modifying the machine potentially or the machines understanding of data and then you're collecting new data based on that new algorithm to which you're now pushing out all right we don't have time but that just whole totally changes the whole security paradigm as well absolutely no had well Paul thanks very much for for coming on the cube and having this cube conversation really excellent work that you're doing congratulations and keep it up thank you very much you're welcome all right thanks for watching everybody this is Dave Volante and this is cube conversations we'll see you next time

hey welcome back everybody Jeff Rick here or the cube conversation and the SiliconANGLE cubes Palo Alto studio a little bit of a break and the crazy conference season so here to kind of fix the gear and take things up and sit down and in the context of a conversation outside of a show to really get the update and we're really excited to be joined here by two guests who are announcing a pretty exciting deal that's happening today is who you shoot a CTO of Hitachi Data scissors welcome again to you and jack mazzoni vice president storage networking at brocade welcome thank you so let's just jump right into it tell everybody what happened today and why this is big news yeah sure I'm gonna start it and so what we're announcing today is broke aids developed its its next-gen called gen-6 fibre channel switches and it's a whole portfolio and we're very excited that hitachi who resells the OEM are our product to to their customer base is launching on the state as well so we're very excited about that and it's big news right and so you'll be able to buy this product today from hitachi for all the great customers that we have out there today and that's the big announcement excellent and why is this important to your customers well this is just the next evolution in fibre channel I mean 32 gigabit per second don't you know we were just on 16 now not long ago and so it's going to open up a lot of bandwidth open up you know more workload being processed provide new opportunities for new applications as well so it's funny a lot a lot of talk on you know already it in the end of Moore's law we're going to be able to squeak out more compute power outage micro processors and stuff but it sounds like you guys are squeezing out a lot more performance on the network yeah I know absolutely and one thing that you know Hugh mentioned earlier which I thought was great is you know when you get performance like this in the network and you just get performance in general enables consolidation enables efficiencies right and when flash is able to go and allow you to do let's say the same or more amount of workloads with less course that's a good thing right and and the networks then got to be able to handle that and it's that kind of efficiencies that when we can jointly bring to our customers that allows them to then spend the time and think about how they transform their IT operations right into this digital transformation era into into enabling IT to be the strategic foundation to go drive the enterprise right and I know sometimes it's hard to to make that connection all the way from Genesis fibre channel to that that's how that connection goes so so it's it's been a proven winner to drive performance it saves money it saves it enables innovation and I think the commitment that brocade and Hitachi have had to to quality to the highest levels of reliability and customer service over the years has really been a cornerstone of our success it's been a great partnership I know our CEO likes to say we partner better than anybody in the industry and that's absolutely true and Hitachi has just been one of those fantastic partners for us for over a decade now so let's unpack that a little bit why is partnership so important and not only just specifically between the two companies here but you know we go to a ton of shows and every show now even if it's a specific vendor like the pentaho show is a whole ecosystem right nobody can do it alone anymore and there's a really kind of renewed focus around the ecosystem and and everyone kind of coming together at the end of the day provide solutions to customers that are going to solve problems so it's a very important piece of it yeah and I think you've a great example that is if it really is a requirement if you think about private cloud infrastructures and converge infrastructures you're bringing so many elements together to deliver a total solution and Hitachi UCP is a great example where you have you know great technologies from hitachi in there we've been able to participate some of our fibre channel as well as our IP storage switches we were able to participate with that and so really I think if you want to participate in a cloud type of architecture whether it's public private hybrid you're going to have to partner you're going to have to particles you may not have all the technologies you may not have all the specialties and customers could require that on at some some levels that's kind of my take on it yes I mean you know we could have tried to develop our own fibre channel switches but you know that would have taken a lot more effort and time and distraction from what our core competencies are you know I mean brocade has a conference season networking both IP and fibre channel networking so it doesn't make any sense for us to try to do that which is better to partner with that right so and the future is going to be all about partnering and and more toward open source to right and the other thing that we find over and over again is really the changing expectations of the way software performs and we hear it all the time you know that why doesn't the software at my work perform like the software on my phone and why isn't it faster and why isn't it more integrated with other sources of information so the demand for better faster stronger applications is only going to increase right nobody wants less data though he wants less performance buddy wats less latency and especially in kind of an API world where all these applications are now not just siloed stacks of applications but they're pulling data from all sorts of places the speed and latency really becomes critical yeah I know I absolutely right and that's why I think this announcement and the construct of the you know the all-flash data center and all the advancements happening with flash is so important it's that linkage and then what the applications can do once they take advantage that you know I always tell people it's like remember the first time your laptop went to a all flash disk remember that experience like via the old spinning disk you're booting up well go to windows right and then you with all flash it was like that emotional experience or how great it was right you take that level at an enterprise level right where you have thousands and thousands of thousands of disks running thousands of applications and now you bring in flash and then around the corner you ring in nvme it's amazing to think about what's going to be coming down the future right and we're very excited about our position it really being it that the the central point of if you will where all this information flow has to go through the network and you know whether it's fibre channel whether it's IP you know we're going to keep to our core values which is you know the highest levels of qualities resiliency bringing in the analytics and partner partner with the top quality companies in the world such as itachi and what was interesting about this release is you added a lot more than a tease a lot more manageability lot more reporting a lot more visibility you know one of the big themes obviously in big data is to move from you know reactive to predictive too prescriptive right and so to have the management layer to have kind of the extra amount of information that you can take advantage of because you've got excess capacity and the pipes if you will and better connectivity to the infrastructure enables a whole different layer of management is which is if you've talked about you and prior interviews you people have to manage a lot more right they're not managing individual boxes anymore now whole different scale man need to be able to automate that those management tools helps us to automate that the infrastructure management also the security part is very important you know the security that brocade brings them into their right into the switch itself right and the security is an interesting point right because that's again a consistent theme everywhere we go it's the old moat just doesn't work anymore the mode and the castle walls now you really have to have security baked in all over the place and the data layer the networking layer all over the place it was the interesting thing is if you think about fiber channel all right let's just offer five channels of technology it is fundamentally right more secure than Ethernet oh we love you know really a great IP portfolio and everything but if you think about Ethernet or excuse me fibre channel when you plug in it it's off by default well first it's a separate network all together right so that's that's one layer secure but it's an off by default meaning that just get you plug in doesn't mean you have access to anything you know you got to go through one man here go there's only going to go through some other stuff but some people say its complexity but but you're at least now actively saying how are the communication is going to happen thin within the this network or either that's really the opposite right because the benefit ethering you plug it in and hey everybody's connected right that's what you want but but when it comes to enterprise let's say storage applications that needs a really but is that the behavior you want that anything that just plugs into it all of a sudden now can connect and and that's one thing that gets kind of lost sometimes than the discussions and the monitor data centers and here I'm really glad that you brought it up and you dropped out of to Jeff it's it's we realize that we're adding more things into it right we're adding more capabilities for in-flight encryption you mentioned forward error correction so the other capabilities were built in it so we take security very seriously and and inherently I think that's another reason that the viability of fibre channel has remained for as long as it has been yeah and it just own it one more time you know kind of what are some of the specific benefits that came out of you two working together for this launch how are you really kind of taking advantage of each other's strengths to really provide a better solution today that people can go out and get well one of the things is they offer backward compelled compatibility we're with two generations right right and that enables us we have a lot of legacy things that we've got to bring forward they don't just rip everything out and put in all these stuff turn the data center off for the weekend is my bonus so you know it gives us that easy transition migration into these higher higher technology levels big one yeah a big one yeah and I think when when the in the porn part two is when we deliver our systems to itachi they test it with their latest and greatest storage they do this full you know systems total solution test so when a customer that brings it into the environment it's it's been fully tested completely NM by brocade and hitachi and then to Hugh's point it's it also then works its backward compatible with everything in the environment nothing's going to you know that nothing will ever break but you know so much time and effort is put into making sure everything runs to seamless as possible because again you have to think about the environments that we're in all right those from mission-critical big environments they got to solve some serious problems they're not up for science projects they're not for risk right yes they have to advance the technology but it's got it done be done in a way that a mitigator essence done a responsible way and that's where I think when you bring their storage and our network together as well as their servers right we have our technology part of their server solutions as well you get some very compelling solutions all right well congratulations to both of you and also to the team's I'm sure there was a lot of work that went up into this day and it's always a relief to get here so thanks for stopping by and sharing the story thank you absolutely right with you and Jack I'm chef Rick you're watching the Q's the cube conversation from Palo Alto thanks for watching we'll see you next time

hi buddy we're back this is Dave vellante Wikibon org with Stu miniman my co-host in this segment Chad saket just here a long time cube guest good friend of the cube Chad great to see you Dave it's my pleasure as always man Stu it's good to see you my friend you know it's unbelievable right we shot and I've been talking all week we started the cube 2010 at the MC world we did SI p sapphire the week right after and then the big show for us that year was was vmworld 2010 it's the best show in town it really is it's you know we said at that greatest show on earth we're betting the house on on VMware you know as a as a topic because it is the IT economy yeah obviously spent a lot of time and as you know effort and appreciate you know the shout out that you gave us the other day on the research that we just did I appreciate the shout out that you your results found well you know it's it's all legit you know as you know we do our homework but David's do put a lot of time to that Nick Allen as well so we're really proud of that that work and at the same time things are evolving yeah I guess they want to go back to it must have been 2009 maybe we sat in a room and you chuck talked the future storage networking the up security obviously compute yep management and the whole deal and we spent a good four hours in that room yep you know I was spent after that but I was just getting started I know you would just get that much everything you laid on us that day is coming true yeah really it's really true I mean you said storage is going to be invisible eventually going to get to the network I mean you know the security pieces and on and on and on so so you know I think that that's definitely the story of this year's vmworld right the idea of what VMware is done by abstracting the control plane of networking with NSX you know prior to that integration to Sierra having talked with a lot of them to see our customers they're super happy with it but prior to that it only worked with open V switch which meant it was you know reserved for the customers who are going all-in with kvm and with Zen now in vsphere 55 it supports the distributive V switch in vsphere which means that idea of network virtualization can be applied to a large swath of customers and likewise vmware is doing the same thing for the control plane of storage which you know Stu that was starting even when you were intimately involved at it when you were at emc absolutely around control abstraction using Vasa and and the early ideas of V vols and the other thing that's going on is they're disrupting the data services plane by becoming a storage vendor with their own storage stack with v Sam yeah and we're going to talk about that yeah for sure in a second I got some time on gots do so that's it that's just your wheel so on the storage piece you know unpack for us a little bit Chad you know we talked about storage becoming invisible and we'll talk about in the network space you know what is the value of the storage array of the storage stack itself and how does that play with VMware especially as we look down to everybody's showing bball so look the name of the game is hyper automation in the end it's not storage it's not networking it's not even compute right and we talked about in the past that the design and the dream of the software-defined data center we use different words for it back you know four years ago but the vision of joe and and all of the parts of the federation of emc vmware and now the third one pivotal is to try and say how do we make all the infrastructure in essence invisible pivot even takes it further by just saying hey we'll just use paths and and get rid of even all the measures are going service for years ago right I remember it well they so really do that yes so so that the reason for it is is that it sucks when you try to provision something a workload whatever the workload maybe and the tail the long tail in the process is touching the physical infrastructure of storage networking and compute virtualization historically has tackled and I would call that problem for compute in essence solved can there be improvements for compute sure bigger faster stronger right in storage land inevitably you know we move from the stage of you talk to the storage person they provision something to you to the storage person provisions a pool of something and then you can automate that and deuce from vsphere and use it through plugins and automation ultimately though you would not even want to have that step you'd want to have the storage advertise its capabilities and then when the vm gets created it says I want out of that catalog of services this stuff and that's what Vasa and whole storage policy based management stuff from vSphere 50 51 and now 55 we're all about in networking land you don't want to have to configure VLANs you don't want to have to configure firewalls you want it to be all able to be done programmatically an only way to do that is if you can like we're just talked about with storage and with compute abstract out the network topology yeah I mean I really look at it what we've always said is we need to get rid of that undifferentiated heavy lifting so that the question I have there's there's a lot of startups in this space that have built their products for this new generation builds is a vm aware if you will or just just simple simple and the critique on emc is that this is legacy equipment and well it might be integrated and you're updating it you know this was still legacy architectures you know how does that fit into the new world so you know when you are the leader everybody will throw stones at you and occasionally even as the leader sometimes we throw stones at others and I don't like that right but I think you might be talking about our friends at perhaps tintri as an example well that they are one that they are built for virtual environments absolutely and if you take a look at it what everyone who is in this space new players emerging players we're trying to today hack at that problem tintri to write because there's no constructs at the vSphere layer for vm awareness what they do in their Nasdaq we do in our Nasdaq is to say AHA file is an object a file can be snapped a file can be replicated and if we hyper couple it into vSphere using plugins and extensions we can then manage and operate on those files right now again I'm not saying that our implement eight it's up to the customers to decide about whether emcs is better or ten trees is better and ultimately the customers choose right but basically we're all kind of trying to hack at that because right now Vasa which is the official policy communication vehicle only operates on data stores data store unit of granularity right V vols has always been the target of how we would all as an industry do that right so i would i would argue that what we showed today about you know recoverpoint and the splitter driver and being able to do tivo like functionality for a vm or replicate for a vm i would argue we more than hold our own with the competition but the right answer ultimately is actually to keep going down the path of V vols in the evolution of vaasa so that you know it can be done correctly and not fake vm awareness but actually have fundamental vm awareness I so since we started on storage I got to chime in here so a couple things so I asked Pat this this morning and his response was essentially hey it's all good these guys are on board but I'm skeptical so about what here's the here's the about what so as I said sort of off-camera Microsoft and Oracle I've already been grabbing storage function and their narrow little parts of the world but you p.m. seen a nap everybody else you've seen NEP but particularly Mabel to find ways to add value I compete very effectively there iam VMware's this horizontal player mm-hm and doing something like v san yep you know its nose software-defined this is you know the future I said to Pat well don't guys like EMC and netapp and shirts certainly HP and itachi and IBM etc don't they want to do their own software-defined he goes yes but they're sort of bought bought into this and what do you think about that as a salt as emc I think I think I don't know whether it's right to say it on camera or not I think that basically as NSX was announced and v san has been announced and everybody in the industry is known that these things are coming you know you could hear audibly people's uh what this what the you know you know you're kind of a cisco right of these in I mean so V sans idea of saying hey I'm going to glom the storage that's in the server the dads the flash the pcie-based flash and use it as a distributed storage layer is a good idea it's an idea that is real and innovation is non containable as as Pat would say you know he's a super fan of andy grove right you know is his mentor Andy Grove had a famous quote that basically said innovation can't be stopped if the incumbents don't do it new startups will arrive that will do it yeah no that's that's fair right Sam Palmisano as well said you're going to get commoditized no matter what so so but the key thing is that it will take some time for V Santa mature the 10 target was correctly positioned in the in the keynotes as use it for non-persistent VDI use it for tests and Dev customers are slowly starting to grok the idea of hey wait a second this thing by definition has to create multiple copies of the data on multiple servers so it's space efficiency is not as good right but I think what's going to occur is your people are going to start to use it and they're gonna dig it yeah they're going to want more and they're going to want more which is great right now from our standpoint EMC sales reps may not like it but EMC likes it because you know what there are portions in the market where we have had great success taking lots of share continue to outgrow the competition but there's other places where we frankly fail to serve properly and if those customers choose v san kumbaya customer happy shareholder happy it's all good right v san will expand though right and in fact as a company we embrace the idea of a software-only data service and this is a data plane thing not a control plane thing that's why we acquired scale io recently right because we're looking a look v san will be the answer for customers who love vmware and our 100% vmware and i talked to a big one today who are like yep that's us likewise i talked to a huge one that were like nope we need an answer that's like v san but works with kvm Zen and hyper-v and vsphere some people like their stacks to lock in at one point and their trade that off and your surveys showed that yeah yeah others about half a woman to live with that right and get function they get function and simplicity right and V San will be phenomenal at that as people are seeing now right i've been using the beta for a long time so I know what but the reality of it is that it's going to be a broad kind of ecosystem of traditional storage stacks embedded into hypervisor storage stacks ones that are packaged as bring your own server akv San and scale IO type things ones that are packaged as will give you the server to new tannic simplicity we live in a beautiful chaotic works hope so boyer in this piece the piece that he had stew did took a little shot at the cartel and you didn't like that you thought you shot back so no that is absolutely not not how we roll it's not how are you roll so so how do you roll hotel eat what you kill Isaac cuts hit it you know so listen to be very blunt I'd be lying if I didn't said that there weren't moments whereas EMC we don't get frustrated that hey you know VMware you you should always work with us right again it happens more in the in the field rather than from a you know our headquarters standpoint right there's times where VMware gets really grumpy when EMC is supporting hyper V or OpenStack and a customer right there's times where vmware is really angry that pivotal runs on AWS and like the announcement earlier this week was hey it works great on vsphere like so think about how weird that is it's been like running on AWS for a while now it runs on vsphere and I bchs right Joe is I think Joe Tucci i think i have an insane amount of respect for that guy he was wise enough to go i need to resist the temptation to simplify for our own internal purposes and create lock-in from the past stack through the app stack through that you know vmware stack through the emc sec and instead say you must all fight for the customer independently and EMC you have to pursue it assuming that VMware isn't a constant VMware you must pursue it as if EMC is certainly not a constant pivotal you should pursue it as if neither one of them is a constant now the one thing that I would highlight to everybody who's watching is don't understand miss understand what I'm saying at the same time whenever one of them is not the best choice for the other jogos hey hey what's up guys it's got this yeah who's got this ball so when V CHS was being stood up and they were looking at alternate storage choices Pat didn't say you have to use EMC but he knocked and said guys we're looking at different storage choices you better come in here and if you don't win on your own merits we'll go with someone else you know I think thankfully they did right and we made that argument you're saying if part of Pat's 50 billion dollar cam comes out of AMC's hog well that's the MCS problem they got to figure out how to shore it up yeah we have to figure out how to compete Chad wonder if you know you own the global se forth you know for emc in this ever complicated world it was you know it wasn't easy when you created the V specialist force but it was focused on VMware and they got a lot of weight behind that there were product managers marketing people all with vmware yep titles inside emc in this world of OpenStack and you know hyper-v and kvm how do you deal with that in the field so so that's a great question man so the first observation just while there is diversity right your survey reflects what I tend to find at my customers right which is overwhelmingly VMware within the enterprise use of some k VMS and OpenStack you know where they would have used vSphere or or the vcloud suite a little bit of dabbling in the enterprise some enterprise customers more than others the cloud service cloud service providers far more right when we were doing the V specialist thing it was an effort to rapidly ramp things up and so we built small focused team small focused product managers what's now happened over the last four years is you know if you think back man like EMC was like a no-show at vmworld 2006 right we our company got the memo focused in we won the best storage choice for VMware deepest integration blah blah blah the what's HAP makes me very happy now is that's now embedded into the product teams it no longer requires a someone watching it just happens organically gooood from a field standpoint the V specialist role many of those V specialists are now leaders of the SE orgs and all sorts of functions so it's no longer somebody thing it's now on everybody thing right but the V specialist mission which used to be makes sure that emc is the best choice for VMware has broadened out to really be best choice for the vcloud suite and VMware stack and also OpenStack to understand and reflect the fact that it's a it's a dynamic open world so so we brought to get in the hook and made me talk about networking so we're just going to ignore the hook for now and talk about networking so NSX yes awesome we saw Martines yeah a little demo up there but it's not going to be that simple why is networking so so hard and you now remember 2009 yeah showed us the roadmap yep now we're here where's it's so first things first what he demoed it is actually that simple if you can constrain a whole bunch of parameters right so if you can constrain yourself to every endpoint is a distributed virtual switch or an open V switch like that thermodynamics problem you can so know what I'm talking about so so if some assumptions its simplify rate they write it if you can if you can constrain it and say everything is connected to a distributive e switch from VMware or an open V switch from kvm and Zen and you assume that the net physical network layer is a bottomless pit of bandwidth and latency in other words you know that there will never be a contention you know at the core networking layer it actually is really that easy right now that may sound like Chad those two constraints are stupid they're not actually that stupid right within the core data center bandwidth is very easy to apply it's much easier to say I'll deploy 10 gige and then go to 40 gig e than it is to hyper design the data center with qos and manage the you know customers have demonstrated time and time again that they'll just go from one gig to 10 gig to 48 to 100 gig rather than trying to hyper engineer the whole thing inside the data center in the wam different story right right also I mean it is a true statement to say in a service provider and in most enterprises eighty ninety percent of their workloads do finish on a thing that is attached to a distributive virtual switch or a physical switch right now where it's going to get funky is that obviously I think NSX is perhaps out there in front in terms of SDN land but they're not alone you know there were lots of partners and we know that cisco has got some cool stuff that they talked about at Cisco live and that our are coming right and you can't you know this goes an amazing company and they have many beloved customers and CC IES and CCNA s around the globe that you know are going to be very interested to see what since you been see I mean interesting play and you can read all about it online and people speculation sure yeah it's going to it's going to be cool though I mean I think one thing that is fun to remember is like innovation is non-stop about it'sit's disruptions or can't be stopped they're going to happen no matter where and in the end it's fundamentally all good for the customer whether it's real CVM where NSX whatever what I love and I said this the pet and I said this did Paul Moretz when I first heard his you know vision I said you guys vmware is ambitious you know if nothing else its ambitious and it's executed on that ambition so it's toss them to watch oh and you know stay tuned for next week September the fourth speed to lead there's some exciting stuff coming from EMC we generally have learned over the years that it's not a good idea to do mega launches and big things during this week because like you said this is this is vmware show and it's the greatest show on earth right yeah okay so we'll stay tuned for that will be watching hi Chad thanks very much for coming on the cubase oh it's my pleasure guys thank you so much I keep right there buddy we're right back after this quick word