hi buddy we're back this is Dave vellante Wikibon org with Stu miniman my co-host in this segment Chad saket just here a long time cube guest good friend of the cube Chad great to see you Dave it's my pleasure as always man Stu it's good to see you my friend you know it's unbelievable right we shot and I've been talking all week we started the cube 2010 at the MC world we did SI p sapphire the week right after and then the big show for us that year was was vmworld 2010 it's the best show in town it really is it's you know we said at that greatest show on earth we're betting the house on on VMware you know as a as a topic because it is the IT economy yeah obviously spent a lot of time and as you know effort and appreciate you know the shout out that you gave us the other day on the research that we just did I appreciate the shout out that you your results found well you know it's it's all legit you know as you know we do our homework but David's do put a lot of time to that Nick Allen as well so we're really proud of that that work and at the same time things are evolving yeah I guess they want to go back to it must have been 2009 maybe we sat in a room and you chuck talked the future storage networking the up security obviously compute yep management and the whole deal and we spent a good four hours in that room yep you know I was spent after that but I was just getting started I know you would just get that much everything you laid on us that day is coming true yeah really it's really true I mean you said storage is going to be invisible eventually going to get to the network I mean you know the security pieces and on and on and on so so you know I think that that's definitely the story of this year's vmworld right the idea of what VMware is done by abstracting the control plane of networking with NSX you know prior to that integration to Sierra having talked with a lot of them to see our customers they're super happy with it but prior to that it only worked with open V switch which meant it was you know reserved for the customers who are going all-in with kvm and with Zen now in vsphere 55 it supports the distributive V switch in vsphere which means that idea of network virtualization can be applied to a large swath of customers and likewise vmware is doing the same thing for the control plane of storage which you know Stu that was starting even when you were intimately involved at it when you were at emc absolutely around control abstraction using Vasa and and the early ideas of V vols and the other thing that's going on is they're disrupting the data services plane by becoming a storage vendor with their own storage stack with v Sam yeah and we're going to talk about that yeah for sure in a second I got some time on gots do so that's it that's just your wheel so on the storage piece you know unpack for us a little bit Chad you know we talked about storage becoming invisible and we'll talk about in the network space you know what is the value of the storage array of the storage stack itself and how does that play with VMware especially as we look down to everybody's showing bball so look the name of the game is hyper automation in the end it's not storage it's not networking it's not even compute right and we talked about in the past that the design and the dream of the software-defined data center we use different words for it back you know four years ago but the vision of joe and and all of the parts of the federation of emc vmware and now the third one pivotal is to try and say how do we make all the infrastructure in essence invisible pivot even takes it further by just saying hey we'll just use paths and and get rid of even all the measures are going service for years ago right I remember it well they so really do that yes so so that the reason for it is is that it sucks when you try to provision something a workload whatever the workload maybe and the tail the long tail in the process is touching the physical infrastructure of storage networking and compute virtualization historically has tackled and I would call that problem for compute in essence solved can there be improvements for compute sure bigger faster stronger right in storage land inevitably you know we move from the stage of you talk to the storage person they provision something to you to the storage person provisions a pool of something and then you can automate that and deuce from vsphere and use it through plugins and automation ultimately though you would not even want to have that step you'd want to have the storage advertise its capabilities and then when the vm gets created it says I want out of that catalog of services this stuff and that's what Vasa and whole storage policy based management stuff from vSphere 50 51 and now 55 we're all about in networking land you don't want to have to configure VLANs you don't want to have to configure firewalls you want it to be all able to be done programmatically an only way to do that is if you can like we're just talked about with storage and with compute abstract out the network topology yeah I mean I really look at it what we've always said is we need to get rid of that undifferentiated heavy lifting so that the question I have there's there's a lot of startups in this space that have built their products for this new generation builds is a vm aware if you will or just just simple simple and the critique on emc is that this is legacy equipment and well it might be integrated and you're updating it you know this was still legacy architectures you know how does that fit into the new world so you know when you are the leader everybody will throw stones at you and occasionally even as the leader sometimes we throw stones at others and I don't like that right but I think you might be talking about our friends at perhaps tintri as an example well that they are one that they are built for virtual environments absolutely and if you take a look at it what everyone who is in this space new players emerging players we're trying to today hack at that problem tintri to write because there's no constructs at the vSphere layer for vm awareness what they do in their Nasdaq we do in our Nasdaq is to say AHA file is an object a file can be snapped a file can be replicated and if we hyper couple it into vSphere using plugins and extensions we can then manage and operate on those files right now again I'm not saying that our implement eight it's up to the customers to decide about whether emcs is better or ten trees is better and ultimately the customers choose right but basically we're all kind of trying to hack at that because right now Vasa which is the official policy communication vehicle only operates on data stores data store unit of granularity right V vols has always been the target of how we would all as an industry do that right so i would i would argue that what we showed today about you know recoverpoint and the splitter driver and being able to do tivo like functionality for a vm or replicate for a vm i would argue we more than hold our own with the competition but the right answer ultimately is actually to keep going down the path of V vols in the evolution of vaasa so that you know it can be done correctly and not fake vm awareness but actually have fundamental vm awareness I so since we started on storage I got to chime in here so a couple things so I asked Pat this this morning and his response was essentially hey it's all good these guys are on board but I'm skeptical so about what here's the here's the about what so as I said sort of off-camera Microsoft and Oracle I've already been grabbing storage function and their narrow little parts of the world but you p.m. seen a nap everybody else you've seen NEP but particularly Mabel to find ways to add value I compete very effectively there iam VMware's this horizontal player mm-hm and doing something like v san yep you know its nose software-defined this is you know the future I said to Pat well don't guys like EMC and netapp and shirts certainly HP and itachi and IBM etc don't they want to do their own software-defined he goes yes but they're sort of bought bought into this and what do you think about that as a salt as emc I think I think I don't know whether it's right to say it on camera or not I think that basically as NSX was announced and v san has been announced and everybody in the industry is known that these things are coming you know you could hear audibly people's uh what this what the you know you know you're kind of a cisco right of these in I mean so V sans idea of saying hey I'm going to glom the storage that's in the server the dads the flash the pcie-based flash and use it as a distributed storage layer is a good idea it's an idea that is real and innovation is non containable as as Pat would say you know he's a super fan of andy grove right you know is his mentor Andy Grove had a famous quote that basically said innovation can't be stopped if the incumbents don't do it new startups will arrive that will do it yeah no that's that's fair right Sam Palmisano as well said you're going to get commoditized no matter what so so but the key thing is that it will take some time for V Santa mature the 10 target was correctly positioned in the in the keynotes as use it for non-persistent VDI use it for tests and Dev customers are slowly starting to grok the idea of hey wait a second this thing by definition has to create multiple copies of the data on multiple servers so it's space efficiency is not as good right but I think what's going to occur is your people are going to start to use it and they're gonna dig it yeah they're going to want more and they're going to want more which is great right now from our standpoint EMC sales reps may not like it but EMC likes it because you know what there are portions in the market where we have had great success taking lots of share continue to outgrow the competition but there's other places where we frankly fail to serve properly and if those customers choose v san kumbaya customer happy shareholder happy it's all good right v san will expand though right and in fact as a company we embrace the idea of a software-only data service and this is a data plane thing not a control plane thing that's why we acquired scale io recently right because we're looking a look v san will be the answer for customers who love vmware and our 100% vmware and i talked to a big one today who are like yep that's us likewise i talked to a huge one that were like nope we need an answer that's like v san but works with kvm Zen and hyper-v and vsphere some people like their stacks to lock in at one point and their trade that off and your surveys showed that yeah yeah others about half a woman to live with that right and get function they get function and simplicity right and V San will be phenomenal at that as people are seeing now right i've been using the beta for a long time so I know what but the reality of it is that it's going to be a broad kind of ecosystem of traditional storage stacks embedded into hypervisor storage stacks ones that are packaged as bring your own server akv San and scale IO type things ones that are packaged as will give you the server to new tannic simplicity we live in a beautiful chaotic works hope so boyer in this piece the piece that he had stew did took a little shot at the cartel and you didn't like that you thought you shot back so no that is absolutely not not how we roll it's not how are you roll so so how do you roll hotel eat what you kill Isaac cuts hit it you know so listen to be very blunt I'd be lying if I didn't said that there weren't moments whereas EMC we don't get frustrated that hey you know VMware you you should always work with us right again it happens more in the in the field rather than from a you know our headquarters standpoint right there's times where VMware gets really grumpy when EMC is supporting hyper V or OpenStack and a customer right there's times where vmware is really angry that pivotal runs on AWS and like the announcement earlier this week was hey it works great on vsphere like so think about how weird that is it's been like running on AWS for a while now it runs on vsphere and I bchs right Joe is I think Joe Tucci i think i have an insane amount of respect for that guy he was wise enough to go i need to resist the temptation to simplify for our own internal purposes and create lock-in from the past stack through the app stack through that you know vmware stack through the emc sec and instead say you must all fight for the customer independently and EMC you have to pursue it assuming that VMware isn't a constant VMware you must pursue it as if EMC is certainly not a constant pivotal you should pursue it as if neither one of them is a constant now the one thing that I would highlight to everybody who's watching is don't understand miss understand what I'm saying at the same time whenever one of them is not the best choice for the other jogos hey hey what's up guys it's got this yeah who's got this ball so when V CHS was being stood up and they were looking at alternate storage choices Pat didn't say you have to use EMC but he knocked and said guys we're looking at different storage choices you better come in here and if you don't win on your own merits we'll go with someone else you know I think thankfully they did right and we made that argument you're saying if part of Pat's 50 billion dollar cam comes out of AMC's hog well that's the MCS problem they got to figure out how to shore it up yeah we have to figure out how to compete Chad wonder if you know you own the global se forth you know for emc in this ever complicated world it was you know it wasn't easy when you created the V specialist force but it was focused on VMware and they got a lot of weight behind that there were product managers marketing people all with vmware yep titles inside emc in this world of OpenStack and you know hyper-v and kvm how do you deal with that in the field so so that's a great question man so the first observation just while there is diversity right your survey reflects what I tend to find at my customers right which is overwhelmingly VMware within the enterprise use of some k VMS and OpenStack you know where they would have used vSphere or or the vcloud suite a little bit of dabbling in the enterprise some enterprise customers more than others the cloud service cloud service providers far more right when we were doing the V specialist thing it was an effort to rapidly ramp things up and so we built small focused team small focused product managers what's now happened over the last four years is you know if you think back man like EMC was like a no-show at vmworld 2006 right we our company got the memo focused in we won the best storage choice for VMware deepest integration blah blah blah the what's HAP makes me very happy now is that's now embedded into the product teams it no longer requires a someone watching it just happens organically gooood from a field standpoint the V specialist role many of those V specialists are now leaders of the SE orgs and all sorts of functions so it's no longer somebody thing it's now on everybody thing right but the V specialist mission which used to be makes sure that emc is the best choice for VMware has broadened out to really be best choice for the vcloud suite and VMware stack and also OpenStack to understand and reflect the fact that it's a it's a dynamic open world so so we brought to get in the hook and made me talk about networking so we're just going to ignore the hook for now and talk about networking so NSX yes awesome we saw Martines yeah a little demo up there but it's not going to be that simple why is networking so so hard and you now remember 2009 yeah showed us the roadmap yep now we're here where's it's so first things first what he demoed it is actually that simple if you can constrain a whole bunch of parameters right so if you can constrain yourself to every endpoint is a distributed virtual switch or an open V switch like that thermodynamics problem you can so know what I'm talking about so so if some assumptions its simplify rate they write it if you can if you can constrain it and say everything is connected to a distributive e switch from VMware or an open V switch from kvm and Zen and you assume that the net physical network layer is a bottomless pit of bandwidth and latency in other words you know that there will never be a contention you know at the core networking layer it actually is really that easy right now that may sound like Chad those two constraints are stupid they're not actually that stupid right within the core data center bandwidth is very easy to apply it's much easier to say I'll deploy 10 gige and then go to 40 gig e than it is to hyper design the data center with qos and manage the you know customers have demonstrated time and time again that they'll just go from one gig to 10 gig to 48 to 100 gig rather than trying to hyper engineer the whole thing inside the data center in the wam different story right right also I mean it is a true statement to say in a service provider and in most enterprises eighty ninety percent of their workloads do finish on a thing that is attached to a distributive virtual switch or a physical switch right now where it's going to get funky is that obviously I think NSX is perhaps out there in front in terms of SDN land but they're not alone you know there were lots of partners and we know that cisco has got some cool stuff that they talked about at Cisco live and that our are coming right and you can't you know this goes an amazing company and they have many beloved customers and CC IES and CCNA s around the globe that you know are going to be very interested to see what since you been see I mean interesting play and you can read all about it online and people speculation sure yeah it's going to it's going to be cool though I mean I think one thing that is fun to remember is like innovation is non-stop about it'sit's disruptions or can't be stopped they're going to happen no matter where and in the end it's fundamentally all good for the customer whether it's real CVM where NSX whatever what I love and I said this the pet and I said this did Paul Moretz when I first heard his you know vision I said you guys vmware is ambitious you know if nothing else its ambitious and it's executed on that ambition so it's toss them to watch oh and you know stay tuned for next week September the fourth speed to lead there's some exciting stuff coming from EMC we generally have learned over the years that it's not a good idea to do mega launches and big things during this week because like you said this is this is vmware show and it's the greatest show on earth right yeah okay so we'll stay tuned for that will be watching hi Chad thanks very much for coming on the cubase oh it's my pleasure guys thank you so much I keep right there buddy we're right back after this quick word