>> From The Cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Last year, we noted in a breaking analysis that the cloud ecosystem is innovating beyond the idea or notion of multi-cloud. We've said for years that multi-cloud is really not a strategy but rather a symptom of multi-vendor. And we coined this term supercloud to describe an abstraction layer that lives above the hyperscale infrastructure that hides the underlying complexities, the APIs, and the primitives of each of the respective clouds. It interconnects whether it's On-Prem, AWS, Azure, Google, stretching out to the edge and creates a value layer on top of that. So our vision is that supercloud is more than running an individual service in cloud native mode within an individual individual cloud rather it's this new layer that builds on top of the hyperscalers. And does things irrespective of location adds value and we'll get into that in more detail. Now it turns out that we weren't the only ones thinking about this, not surprisingly, the majority of the technology ecosystem has been working towards this vision in various forms, including some examples that actually don't try to hide the underlying primitives. And we'll talk about that, but give a consistent experience across the DevSecOps tool chain. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon, Cube insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we're going to share some recent examples and direct quotes about supercloud from the many Cube guests that we've had on over the last several weeks and months. And we've been trying to test this concept of supercloud. Is it technically feasible? Is it business rational? Is there business case for it? And we'll also share some recent ETR data to put this into context with some of the players that we think are going after this opportunity and where they are in their supercloud build out. And as you can see I'm not in the studio, everybody's got COVID so the studios shut down temporarily but breaking analysis continues. So here we go. Now, first thing is we uncovered an article from earlier this year by Lori MacVittie, is entitled, Supercloud: The 22 Answer to Multi-Cloud Challenges. What a great title. Of course we love it. Now, what really interested us here is not just the title, but the notion that it really doesn't matter what it's called, who cares? Supercloud, distributed cloud, someone even called it Metacloud recently, and we'll get into that. But Lori is a technologist. She's a developer by background. She works at F-Five and she's partial to the supercloud definition that was put forth by Cornell. You can see it here. That's a cloud architecture that enables application migration as a service across different availability zones or cloud providers, et cetera. And that the supercloud provides interfaces to allocate, migrate and terminate resources... And can span all major public cloud providers as well as private clouds. Now, of course, we would take that as well to the edge. So sure. That sounds about right and provides further confirmation that something new is really happening out there. And that was our initial premise when we put this fourth last year. Now we want to dig deeper and hear from the many Cube guests that we've interviewed recently probing about this topic. We're going to start with Chuck Whitten. He's Dell's new Co-COO and most likely part of the Dell succession plan, many years down the road hopefully. He coined the phrase multi-cloud by default versus multi-cloud by design. And he provides a really good business perspective. He's not a deep technologist. We're going to hear from Chuck a couple of times today including one where John Furrier asks him about leveraging hyperscale CapEx. That's an important concept that's fundamental to supercloud. Now, Ashesh Badani heads products at Red Hat and he talks about what he calls Metacloud. Again, it doesn't matter to us what you call it but it's the ecosystem gathering and innovating and we're going to get his perspective. Now we have a couple of clips from Danny Allan. He is the CTO of Veeam. He's a deep technologist and super into the weeds, which we love. And he talks about how Veeam abstracts the cloud layer. Again, a concept that's fundamental to supercloud and he describes what a supercloud is to him. And we also bring with Danny the edge discussion to the conversation. Now the bottom line from Danny is we want to know is supercloud technically feasible? And is it a thing? And then we have Jeff Clarke. Jeff Clark is the Co-COO and Vice Chairman of Dell super experienced individual. He lays out his vision of supercloud and what John Furrier calls a business operating system. You're going to hear from John a couple times. And he, Jeff Clark has a dropped the mic moment, where he says, if we can do this X, we'll describe what X is, it's game over. Okay. So of course we wanted to then go to HPE, one of Dell's biggest competitors and Patrick Osborne is the vice president of the storage business unit at Hewlett Packet Enterprise. And so given Jeff Clarke's game over strategy, we want to understand how HPE sees supercloud. And the bottom line, according to Patrick Osborne is that it's real. So you'll hear from him. And now Raghu Raghuram is the CEO of VMware. He threw a curve ball at this supercloud concept. And he flat out says, no, we don't want to hide the underlying primitives. We want to give developers access to those. We want to create a consistent developer experience in that DevsSecOps tool chain and Kubernetes runtime environments, and connect all the elements in the application development stack. So that's a really interesting perspective that Raghu brings. And then we end on Itzik Reich. Itzik is a technologist and a technical team leader who's worked as a go between customers and product developers for a number of years. And we asked Itzik, is supercloud technically feasible and will it be a reality? So let's hear from these experts and you can decide for yourselves how real supercloud is today and where it is, run the sizzle >> Operative phrase is multi-cloud by default that's kind of the buzz from your keynote. What do you mean by that? >> Well, look, customers have woken up with multiple clouds, multiple public clouds, On-Premise clouds increasingly as the edge becomes much more a reality for customers clouds at the edge. And so that's what we mean by multi-cloud by default. It's not yet been designed strategically. I think our argument yesterday was, it can be and it should be. It is a very logical place for architecture to land because ultimately customers want the innovation across all of the hyperscale public clouds. They will see workloads and use cases where they want to maintain an On-Premise cloud, On-Premise clouds are not going away, I mentioned edge clouds, so it should be strategic. It's just not today. It doesn't work particularly well today. So when we say multi-cloud by default we mean that's the state of the world today. Our goal is to bring multi-cloud by design as you heard. >> Really great question, actually, since you and I talked, Dave, I've been spending some time noodling just over that. And you're right. There's probably some terminology, something that will get developed either by us or in collaboration with the industry. Where we sort of almost have the next almost like a Metacloud that we're working our way towards. >> So we manage both the snapshots and we convert it into the Veeam portable data format. And here's where the supercloud comes into play. Because if I can convert it into the Veeam portable data format, I can move that OS anywhere. I can move it from physical to virtual, to cloud, to another cloud, back to virtual, I can put it back on physical if I want to. It actually abstracts the cloud layer. There are things that we do when we go between cloud some use BIOS, some use UEFI, but we have the data in backup format, not snapshot format, that's theirs, but we have it in backup format that we can move around and abstract workloads across all of the infrastructure. >> And your catalog is control in control of that. Is that right? Am I thinking about that the right way? >> Yeah it is, 100%. And you know what's interesting about our catalog, Dave, the catalog is inside the backup. Yes. So here's, what's interesting about the edge, two things, on the edge you don't want to have any state, if you can help it. And so containers help with that You can have stateless environments, some persistent data storage But we not not only provide the portability in operating systems, we also do this for containers. And that's true. If you go to the cloud and you're using say EKS with relational database services RDS for the persistent data later, we can pick that up and move it to GKE or move it to OpenShift On-Premises. And so that's why I call this the supercloud, we have all of this data. Actually, I think you termed the term supercloud. >> Yeah. But thank you for... I mean, I'm looking for a confirmation from a technologist that it's technically feasible. >> It is technically feasible and you can do it today. >> You said also technology and business models are tied together and enabler. If you believe that then you have to believe that it's a business operating system that they want. They want to leverage whatever they can. And at the end of the day, they have to differentiate what they do. >> Well, that's exactly right. If I take that in what Dave was saying and I summarize it the following way, if we can take these cloud assets and capabilities, combine them in an orchestrated way to deliver a distributed platform, game over. >> We have a number of platforms that are providing whether it's compute or networking or storage, running those workloads that they plum up into the cloud they have an operational experience in the cloud and they now they have data services that are running in the cloud for us in GreenLake. So it's a reality, we have a number of platforms that support that. We're going to have a a set of big announcements coming up at HPE Discover. So we led with Electra and we have a block service. We have VM backup as a service and DR on top of that. So that's something that we're providing today. GreenLake has over, I think it's actually over 60 services right now that we're providing in the GreenLake platform itself. Everything from security, single sign on, customer IDs, everything. So it's real. We have the proofpoint for it. >> Yeah. So I want to clarify something that you said because this tends to be very commonly confused by customers. I use the word abstraction. And usually when people think of abstraction, they think it hides capabilities of the cloud providers. That's not what we are trying to do. In fact, that's the last thing we are trying to do. What we are trying to do is to provide a consistent developer experience regardless of where you want to build your application. So that you can use the cloud provider services if that's what you want to use. But the DevSecOp tool chain, the runtime environment which turns out to be Kubernetes and how you control the Kubernetes environment, how do you manage and secure and connect all of these things. Those are the places where we are adding the value. And so really the VMware value proposition is you can build on the cloud of your choice but providing these consistent elements, number one, you can make better use of us, your scarce developer or operator resources and expertise. And number two, you can move faster. And number three, you can just spend less as a result of this. So that's really what we are trying to do. We are not... So I just wanted to clarify the word abstraction. In terms of where are we? We are still, I would say, in the early stages. So if you look at what customers are trying to do, they're trying to build these greenfield applications. And there is an entire ecosystem emerging around Kubernetes. There is still, Kubernetes is not a developer platform. The developer experience on top of Kubernetes is highly inconsistent. And so those are some of the areas where we are introducing new innovations with our Tanzu Application Platform. And then if you take enterprise applications, what does it take to have enterprise applications running all the time be entirely secure, et cetera. >> Well, look, the multi-cloud by default today are isolated clouds. They don't work together. Your data is siloed. It's locked up and it is expensive to move and make sense of it. So I think the word you and I were batting around before, this is an interconnected tissue. That's what the world needs. They need the clouds to work together as a single platform. That's the problem that we're trying to solve. And you saw it in some of our announcements here that we're starting to make steps on that journey to make multi-cloud work together much simpler. >> It's interesting, you mentioned the hyperscalers and all that CapEx investments. Why wouldn't you want to take advantage of a cloud and build on the CapEx and then ultimately have the solutions machine learning as one area. You see some specialization with the clouds. But you start to see the rise of superclouds, Dave calls them, and that's where you can innovate on a cloud then go to the multiple clouds. Snowflakes is one, we see a lot of examples of supercloud... >> Project Alpine was another one. I mean, it's early, but it's its clearly where you're going. The technology is just starting to come around. I mean it's real. >> Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't you want to take advantage of all of the cloud innovation out there? >> Is that something that's, that supercloud idea is a reality from a technologist perspective. >> I think it is. So for example Katie Gordon, which I believe you've interviewed earlier this week, was demonstrating the Kubernetes data mobility aspect which is another project. That's exactly part of the it's rationale, the rationale of customers being able to move some of their Kubernetes workloads to the cloud and back and between different clouds. Why are we doing? Because customers wants to have the ability to move between different cloud providers, using a common API that will be able to orchestrate all of those things with a self-service that may be offered via the APEX console itself. So it's all around enabling developers and meeting them where they are today and also meeting them into tomorrow's world where they actually may have changed their mind to do those things. So yes we are walking on all of those different aspects. >> Okay. Let's take a quick look at some of the ETR data. This is an X-Y graph. You've seen it a number of times on breaking analysis, it plots the net score or spending momentum on the Y-axis and overlap or pervasiveness in the ETR dataset on the X-axis, used to be called market share. I think that term was off putting to some people, but anyway it's an indicator of presence in the dataset. Now that red dotted line that's rarefied air where anything above that line is considered highly elevated. Now you can see we've plotted Azure and AWS in the upper right. GCP is in there and Kubernetes. We've done that as reference points. They're not necessarily building supercloud platforms. We'll see if they ever want to do so. And Kubernetes of course not a company, but we put 'em in there for context. And we've cherry picked a few players that we believe are building out or are important for supercloud build out. Let's start with Snowflake. We've talked a lot about this company. You can see they're highly elevated on the vertical axis. We see the data cloud as a supercloud in the making. You've got pure storage in there. They made the public, the early part of its supercloud journey at Accelerate 2019 when it unveiled a hybrid block storage service inside of AWS, it connects its On-Prem to AWS and creates that singular experience for pure customers. We see Hashi, HashiCorp as an enabling infrastructure, as code. So they're enabling infrastructure as code across different clouds and different locations. You see Nutanix. They're embarking on their multi-cloud strategy but it's doing so in a way that we think is supercloud, like now. Now Veeam, we were just at VeeamON. And this company has tied Dell for the number one revenue player in data protection. That's according to IDC. And we don't think it won't be long before it holds that position alone at the top as it's growing faster than in Dell in the space. We'll see, Dell is kind of waking up a little bit and putting more resource on that. But Veeam, they're a pure play vendor in data protection. And you heard their CTO, Danny Allan's view on Supercloud, they're doing it today. And we heard extensive comments as well from Dell that's clearly where they're headed, project Alpine was an early example from Dell technologies world of Supercloud in our view. And HPE with GreenLake. Finally beginning to talk about that cross cloud experience. I think it in initially HPE has been more focused on the private cloud, we'll continue to probe. We'll be at HPE discover later on the spring, actually end of June. And we'll continue to probe to see what HPE is doing specifically with GreenLake. Now, finally, Cisco, we put them on the chart. We don't have direct quotes from recent shows and events but this data really shows you the size of Cisco's footprint within the ETR data set that's on the X-axis. Now the cut of this ETR data includes all sectors across the ETR taxonomy which is not something that we commonly show but you can see the magnitude of Cisco's presence. It's impressive. Now, they had better, Cisco that is, had better be building out a supercloud in our view or they're going to be left behind. And I'm quite certain that they're actually going to do so. So we have a lot of evidence that we're putting forth here and seeing in the marketplace what we said last year, the ecosystem is take taking shape, supercloud is forming and becoming a thing. And really in our view, is the future of cloud. But there are always risks to these predictive scenarios and we want to acknowledge those. So first, look, we could end up with a bunch of bespoke superclouds. Now one supercloud is better than three separate cloud native services that do fundamentally the same thing from the same vendor. One for AWS, one for GCP and one for Azure. So maybe that's not all that bad. But to point number two, we hope there evolves a set of open standards for self-service infrastructure, federated governance, and data sharing that will evolve as a horizontal layer versus a set of proprietary vendor specific tools. Now, maybe a company like Veeam will provide that as a data management layer or some of Veeam's competitors or maybe it'll emerge again as open source. As well, and this next point, we see the potential for edge disruptions, changing the economics of the data center. Edge in fact could evolve on its own, independent of the cloud. In fact, David Floria sees the edge somewhat differently from Danny Allan. Floria says he sees a requirement for distributed stateful environments that are ephemeral where recovery is built in. And I said, David, stateful? Ephemeral? Stateful ephemeral? Isn't that an oxymoron? And he responded that, look, if it's not ephemeral the costs are going to be prohibitive. He said the biggest mistake the companies could make is thinking that the edge is simply an extension of their current cloud strategies. We're seeing that a lot. Dell largely talks about the edge as retail. Now, and Telco is a little bit different, but back to Floria's comments, he feels companies have to completely reimagine an integrated file and recovery system which is much more data efficient. And he believes that the technology will evolve with massive volumes and eventually seep into enterprise cloud and distributed data centers with better economics. In other words, as David Michelle recently wrote, we're about 15 years into the most recent cloud cycle and history shows that every 15 years or so, something new comes along that is a blind spot and highly disruptive to existing leaders. So number four here is really important. Remember, in 2007 before AWS introduced the modern cloud, IBM outpost, sorry, IBM outspent Amazon and Google and RND and CapEx and was really comparable to Microsoft. But instead of inventing cloud, IBM spent hundreds of billions of dollars on stock buybacks and dividends. And so our view is that innovation rewards leaders. And while it's not without risks, it's what powers the technology industry it always has and likely always will. So we'll be watching that very closely, how companies choose to spend their free cash flow. Okay. That's it for now. Thanks for watching this episode of The Cube Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks to Stephanie Chan who does some of the background research? Alex Morrison is on production and is going to compile all this stuff. Thank you, Alex. We're all remote this week. Kristen Nicole and Cheryl Knight do Cube distribution and social distribution and get the word out, so thank you. Robert Hof is our editor in chief. Don't forget the checkout etr.ai for all the survey action. Remember I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and you can check out all the breaking analysis podcasts. All you can do is search breaking analysis podcast so you can pop in the headphones and listen while you're on a walk. You can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. If you want to get in touch or DM me at DVellante, you can always hit me up into a comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante. Thank you for watching this episode of break analysis, stay safe, be well and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Facilitator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with other leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Java is the world's most popular programming language. And it remains the leading application development platform. But what's the status of Java? What a customers doing? And very importantly, what is Oracle's and the community strategy with respect to Java? Welcome everybody to this Java power panel on theCUBE. I'm your host, Dave Vellante. Manish Gupta here, he's the Vice President of Global Marketing at Java for Oracle, Donald Smith is also on the panel, and he's the Senior Director of Product Management at Oracle and we're joined by David Floyd who is a CTO of Wikibon Research and has done a number of research activities on this very topic. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Manish, I want to start with you. Can you help us understand really what dig into Oracle strategy with respect to Java. The technology, the licensing, the support. How has that evolved over time? Take us through that. >> Dave, with 51 billion JVMs deployed worldwide, Java has truly cemented its position as the language of innovation and the technology world. There's no question about that. In fact, I like to say it's really the language of empowerment. Given the the impact it has had numerous applications ranging from the Mars Rover to genomics and everything in between. As Oracle acquired sign over 10 years ago, it's really kept it front of mind, two aspects of what we want to do with the technology and the platform. The first one was to ensure there was broad accessibility to the technology and the platform for anybody that wanted to benefit from it. And the second one was to ensure that the ecosystem remained vibrant and thriving throughout. I managed to do both. And underpinning these two objectives were really three pillars of our strategy. The first one was around trust, ensuring that openness and transparency of the technology was as was before continued to be the case going forward. The second element of that within the trust pillar was to ensure that as enterprises invested in the technology that investment was protected, it was not, you invest and you lose over a period of time in a backward compatibility, interoperability, certifications, were all foundational to the platform itself to the features, to the innovation moving forward. And more recently as we have rethought to the support, the licensing and the overall structure of the pricing that we have ensured that ultimately the trust comes along in those dimensions as well. So the launch of the Java subscription came along with, pay as you go model, it's a transparent pricing structure and discuss structure published on the website. So you can go and see what it would cost for the desktop on servers or cloud deployment. So those were the things that made kind of the first pillar happen. The second one was Dunno innovation. Over the last 25 years, Java has stood the test of time. It has delivered the needs of today while preparing for the future. And that remains the case. It is not something that has sort of focused on the fat of the day and the hot thing for the day, but really more important that it is prepared to deal with the mission critical, massive scale deployments that can run for years, for decades, in some cases. And keeping that in mind, Oracle has continued to put more and more technology into the open source world with every release that comes out, you can see 80 plus percent of the contributions come from Oracle. So that's the second pillar around innovation. And the third piece of the strategy has been around predictability. Ensuring that Java, the technology and platform perform as advertised, and that goes into the feature releases, it goes into the release process, it goes into the fact that you were broadly within the open JDK environment for developing and executing the roadmap. From a CIO standpoint, it's important to know that the technology used to develop your applications has talent around. And your, if you're going to develop something like Java, you'll find the right Java engineers to do the job. That is not a question, right? And so that's part of predictability. And finally, again with the change in the six months release cadence that came about three years ago, with the release of Java 10, we've really made sure that it's not, no, a bunch of things come about. You don't know when they're going to be released, but you know, like clockwork, you'll have a new Java list every six months. And that's been the case every March and September, since Java 10, you've had a new release of Java with certain features that come up and we just launched Java 15. So trust innovation predictability, have really been the three pillars on which we've executed the strategy for Java. >> Excellent, thank you for that intro, and we're going to get into it now. I'm glad you mentioned the sun acquisition. I said at the time that Java was the linchpin of that acquisition, many people, of course, we looked at the integration piece with the hardware, but it was really Java and the capabilities that it brings. And of course, a lot of Oracle software written in Java and not the least of which is a fusion. But now let's get into the components of this. And I want to talk a little bit about the methodology of this and going to call on you David Floria. But essentially my understanding is that Wikibon went through and David, you led this, you did a technical deep dive, which you always do, did a number of in depth interviews with Java customers. And then of course you also did a web survey and then you built from that data and economic model. So you can try to understand the sort of dimensions of the financials if you will. So what were your key findings there? >> So the key findings were that Java was in a good state that people were happy with the Java. The second key finding is that the business case itself for using the Oracle services, the subscription services was good. It didn't mean to say that that wasn't for every company, the right way to do it, but there was a very good return on that. And the third area was that there was a degree of confidence that the new way of doing things, the six-month cycle, as opposed to the three-year cycle was overall a benefit to the rate of change, the ability for them to introduce new features quickly. >> Okay, well, I mean, you know, and I read that research. And to me my takeaways where I saw the continued relevance of Java, which is kind of goes without saying, but a lot of times it gets lost in the headlines. That subscription piece is key. We're going to get into some of the economics as to how that affects customers and it saves you money. And the other piece was the roadmap becoming more transparent. And I don't want to dig into that a little bit, but before we do, let's get into that innovation component Manish, mentioned that several times, but Don, I want to go to you guys. We have a slide on the various components of the innovation. If you would bring this up and Don I wonder if you could talk to this and give us some examples if you would. >> Yeah, sure. So we were the number one development platform for the last 25 years. We want to be the number one development platform for the next 25 years. And in order to do that, we have to be constantly innovating and constantly innovating not only the business side in terms of the subscription and the support offerings and commercial features like Manish was talking about, but also the platform in general. And so the way we like to talk about innovation as we break it down by these pillars that you can see on the slide. And so the first pillar is continuous improvements to the language. So this is watching developers trying to write the same piece of code over and over again, and us asking, can we make you more efficient? Can we give you more language features that reduce the amount of boilerplate that you have to write? The second pillar is a project that we just announced a few months ago called Leyden. And the idea with Leyden is addressing the longterm pinpoints of Java slow startup time and time to peak performance. So if you go back 10 years ago, everybody knows about Java as an enterprise platform, Java EE application servers. They all had the notion of being very long lived. And so Java at that time would be optimized towards long lived applications, startup, and performance. Where if it took a little while to get there, it didn't matter as long as when it got there, it was super fast. And so we're trying to get that peak performance faster in the world of microservices. In a similar vein with project loom, we're looking at making concurrency simple again, looking at how developers are doing more reactive style programming and realizing that the threading model needs to be rethought from the ground up, that project is looking really, really good. Then we have project Panama. Project Panama is all about making it easier to connect Java with native libraries. Valhalla is all about improving, there's a couple of benefits, but it's all about improving memory density and being able to access and iterate and operate over primitive data types at super fast speeds by better optimizing how that information is stored in memory. And then the other pillar of the final pillar that we have been working on from an innovation perspective is ZGC. We introduced a new garbage collector technology a few years ago, G1GCE a generational garbage collector with the eye towards making garbage collection in Java pause lists. So if you, again, if you go back in time and look at the history of Java, memory management is awesome, but there's always that cost and risk of a garbage collection cycle, taking a bit of time away from a critical application. And ZGC is all about getting rid of that. So lots of innovation, lots of different pillars going on right now. >> Awesome, I'm impressed. There's something after Valhalla. I thought that was Nirvana. (laughing) But now, and these are all open source projects, right? And you guys obviously provide committers, there are other people in the open source world who provide that, is that correct Don? >> Yeah, that's correct. We have about 80% of the contributions in open JDK. We are the stewards of open JDK and lead the project. Most of the pillars I talked about here are you know Oracle folks working on that. >> Awesome. Okay, let's get into some of the data. David, I want to come back to you and talk about some of the survey results guys, if you bring up that next slide. Why David, why do people upgrade? What are the drivers? It's really talks to the large companies and what's different from the small company or mid-size companies? What are the takeaways here? >> David: Well, so this is interesting, and as you might expect, large enterprises, have very concerned about application stability. Whereas midsize or enterprises are much more concerned about the performance, making sure that the performance is good. They are both concerned about reliable performance and security, but it's interesting that from a regulation point of view, mid-size companies really want to make sure that they are obeying the regulations, that they are meeting those. Whereas larger organizations usually have their own security and regulation functions looking very hard at these things. So that looking less to the platform to provide those than their own people. >> Yeah, I think you're right. I think the midsize organizations don't have as many people running around taking care of security and it's harder for them to keep up with the edicts of the organization. So they want to stay more current. Don, I wonder if you can add anything to this data from an innovation standpoint. >> Yeah, well, and from a product management standpoint, and what we see here is when you look at just going from fortune 500 to global 2000, you see things that are important to one or less so than the other. You can extrapolate that all the way down to a small company or a startup. And that's why providing the most flexibility in terms of an offering to allow people to decide what, when, where, and how they would be going to upgrade their software so they can do it when they want, and on their own terms. You can see that that becomes really important. And also making sure that we're providing innovation in a broad way so that it'll appeal both to the enterprise and again extrapolating that forward down to even very small startups. >> You know, David, the other thing that struck me in the data, if we bring up that other piece is the upgrade strategy, and there was a stark difference between large enterprises and midsize organizations. Talk to this data, if you would. >> Yes, this is again, a pretty stark difference between them. When you're looking at large enterprises, they really wants stability and they don't want to upgrade so often. Whereas mid-size enterprises, are much more willing to both upgrade on a regular cadence and really have a much more up-to-date, or have always have the latest software. They're driving smaller applications, but they're much more agile about their approach to it. Again, emphasizing what Don was saying about the smaller enterprises wanting a different strategy and a different way of doing things than large enterprises. >> So Manish this says to me that you got it right from a strategy standpoint. I mean, any color you can add here. >> Yeah, it's very intuitive that whether you're a large organization, a mid-sized enterprise or a small business, right? You face competitive pressures, your dynamics are unique. What you're able to do with the resources, what you desire to do at the pace that is appropriate for your environment, are really unique to you, and to try to force one model across any one size or across any set of dynamics is just not appropriate. So we've always felt that giving the enterprises and the organization, the ability to move at the pace of their business is the right approach. And so when we designed the Oracle Java SE subscription, we truly have that front and center in our thought process. And that structure seems to be working well. >> David, what I like about the way you do research is you actually build an economic model. A lot of these business value projects. I know this well, having been in the business a long time, they'll go out to ask the customer what they got, and then the customer said, "Well, I got a 111% ROI, and boom, that's what it is. You actually construct an economic model, you bring in rules of thumb, it allows you to do what ifs you can test that model and calibrate it against the real world. So I commend you on that. You've done a lot of hard work there, but bottom line at forests, I mean, let's bring up the economics. I mean, that's what people ultimately want to know. Does this save me money? What's the bottom line here? >> Yeah. Yes, that's a very important question. And the way we go about it is to ask the questions so that we can extract from those questions, how much effort it took, for example, to upgrade things, how much effort it took for important applications and not so important applications. So we have a very detailed model driven by the survey itself and in the back of the research, I'm a great believer that you should be able to follow exactly what the research said, what the survey said and how it was applied to the model. So, and what were you focused on was, what was the return of using the Java subscription service or taking an upgrade every six months? Those were the two ways that we looked at it. And for large enterprises, the four-year costs for the enterprise was $11 million, but for taking the additional subscription service, and this was well well covered, the payback is within a year, well covered by the lower costs of managing in a lot of systems and environment. And we found a very similar result on those midsize services. There, it was 3 million, and again, they got that back the year in terms of payback. So, but that's one alternative. There is another alternative that may be worthwhile the extra money if you really want to be up-to-date and or if you want to drive a much more aggressive strategy for your organization. >> So these are huge numbers. I mean, he's talking about 30% savings on average for large and mid-sized enterprises in the percentage terms, but the absolute dollars are actually enormous. So, you know, large companies here, we're talking about $20 billion enterprises with 500 or more Java applications. And mid-size is, you're talking about a couple, two, $3 billion companies. Manish, what are you saying in the customer base in terms of the economics? >> Yeah, you know anytime an organization is looking at an offering and a solution, they want to make sure just giving them the value. And we all know that the priorities of businesses have, they want to focus on that. Managing the Java estate is important, but is it the thing where they want to invest the dollars? And if they are investing the dollars, are they getting the return? We find that if you can give the enterprises an ability where they can see the return, the cost is right for them. And if you can mirror that and you can map it also with reduce risk, then you put the right formula. And with the subscription, they're able to not only see the cost savings that the model indicates clearly, but they're also able to reduce the risk in terms of security protection and other things. So it's a really, really good combination for the enterprises. >> Well, thank you, I wonder Manish, if you could bring us home here and just kind of summarize from your thoughts, everything you've heard today, what are the key takeaways? >> You know Java has been around for 25 years, and we certainly believe it's really positioned well for what's required today. And perhaps more importantly, what is needed for the next decade and for the next 25 years. Having now served thousands of customers with the Java subscription, it's clear that it is meeting the needs of fortune 10 organizations all the way down to a 5% development house, for example. What we're hearing from across the board is really Java has been the go to platform and it continues to be the go to platform for mission critical development and deployment. However, the complexity as the Java estate becomes large when you've got tens to hundreds, in some cases over a thousand applications running across the enterprise, that complexity can be daunting. And the Java subscription is really serving the needs in three ways. One, it's getting them the best of class support from Oracle, which is a steward of Java, the company that is generating over 80% of innovation with every single release. The second thing they're getting the business flexibility. So they can move at the pace that works for them. And therapies is as a business model as indicated that they're getting it at a lower cost while having your list. So the combination of these things is the reason why we're seeing very high renewal rates, why we're seeing thousands of organization take it over. And I want to wrap it up by saying one final thing, that you can count on Oracle to be the transparent, to be the right steward or both technology innovation, as well as to ensuring the support for the vast ecosystem whether it's libraries, frameworks, user groups, educational services and so on. So Java is here, has been here for the enterprise, large and small, and it's ready for the next generation as well. >> Great, thank you for that. Well, one more question. What's the call to action? If I'm a mid-sized company or a large company, I've made investments in Java, what, what should I do next? >> I would say, take a look at the Oracle subscription. It will reduce your rates. It'll save you a cost and it'll give you a lower risk parameter for your organization. >> Great, nice and crisp, I like it. If you like, if you guys don't object, I'm going to give you my summary. I've been taking notes this whole time and so, we've explored two options. Customers can do it yourself or go with the subscription on a regular cadence. It's very clear to me that that Java remains relevant as we set up top. It's the world's most popular programming language we know about all that. The ecosystem is really moving fast. Of course, with the stewardship of Oracle cloud microservices, the development of, of modern applications. I think that the directional changes that Manish you guys and, and Don and Oracle have made were really the right call. The research that David you did, shows that it's serving customers better. It lowers costs, it's cutting down risk particularly for the mid-sized companies that maybe are, or don't have the security infrastructure and the talent to go chase those problems. And I love the roadmap piece. The more transparent roadmap really is going to give the industry and the community much more confidence to invest and move forward. So guys, thanks very much for coming on this CUBE Java power panel. It was great to have you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, I thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante, for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (soft music)

live from San Francisco it's the queue covering micron insight 2019 back to you by micron welcome back to micron insight 2019 in San Francisco you watching the cube the leader and live tech coverage we're wrapping up our day Dave Volante with David Floria we're Kia Jones is here she's the senior principal for 5g connectivity in the GPM group at Microsoft great to see you great to see you guys it's been a wonderful day yeah nice job up on stage today you know we're gonna talk a little bit about a 5g and get your perspectives on it but tell us more about your group and sort of what you focused yeah well you know I'm in Azure and azure is even though it's our cloud infrastructure there has to be a lot of backbone support so inside of networking we have all those components that would support the physical structure of cloud technology so we focus on virtualizing a lot of the different managed services that we have and we provide those to customers for scalability and sustainable models that allow them to pretty much transport data safely what's it like inside of Microsoft these days I mean what a transformation of the company I did a little segment on LinkedIn the other day a little video segment there's a lot of ways if you want to spend some money there's a lot of ways to spend money with Microsoft you know you got cloud you got an application management you got security you got all the abs I mean really is you're hitting on all cylinders it's what a dynamic what's it like inside of there these days you know I think I think the world now is very different I see Microsoft making a huge transformation over the last have only been there three years but what I can say to you is that I see that the opportunity is there for partnership now which is something that I don't think we focused on we did too well in the past with our new CEO Satya Nadella and Peggy Johnson who leads our business development I mean we are really taking the the game and just changing and and making making it more something that we can do with everyone instead of in silo and so the culture is definitely changing is their opportunity yeah but I think our company is dedicated and focused on you know creating more diverse technology that can meet two customer's needs all over the yeah I mean windows are still a huge part of Microsoft's business but it's not the future of Microsoft it's very very impressive to see that transformation all right what what should we know about 5g what's Microsoft's put point of view on 5g what's the opportunity for you well that's a great question a lot of people were like Microsoft and 5g how does that work well in the past I think with the telcos and all the communication service providers we've always been either their customer or they've been our customer the new world that we're going into now is how do we help the telcos now be better enablers so that we can accelerate business and so I took over this charter along with my boss Yusuf Khalidi and about a year ago and our vision for what we thought we could do came to really great reality when we understood the the ecosystem that already existed this this business of 5g is not as simple as it sounds so what we decided to do and we released a press release back in July was we're going pretty much all in in a sense with AT&T in helping them with their global strategy for really Wireless you know to help stabilize their wireless network and combine some software-defined principles and capabilities so what they're they're already planning for in the future so I think with that transformation honestly a lot of it is unknown but we're taking a day by day we're talking earlier about a lot of is unknown in terms of like what apps are going to emerge who's gonna pay for what but but there's a lot of hype around 5g certainly a lot of folks in the technology community you're excited about it yeah help us understand what's real and what's not what's hype and what sort of things that users can actually expect and then I want to know exact months and you know what I think if you can imagine it it's a possibility I think it all boils down to the type of partnerships I always say that it's the power of three in the sense in the past has always been the power of two where two companies come together we can make it work well now you need you need an extra component not only do you need a company like Microsoft but you need to tell Co but you're going to need a system integrator right and I'm not talking about the hardware side but more of the software application side I think if a lot of people talking about like these things we know that smart city we think that's a possibility real soon mmm I still think we got it way to go with a lot of the townships and the city infrastructures moving so slow with governmental policies changing I think that we can likely see improvement in connected vehicles connected you know Internet of Things in and if everything is coming we first must be able to connect the dots with those things first before we actually bring in a government entity I think they have a lot of questions that we're not yet ready to answer and so I think there's a lot of great need for POCs and that's what my team focuses on inside of Azure networking he's looking at what can be the next PLC where we can help truly define the next generation requirements you're kind of acting as the accelerant I like the power three analogy a bump set spike yeah right now fashion sports analogies in the cube and then you know you point about I think governments is right on I was saying the earlier to David that I participated in a mayor of Boston as this you know the Smart City future initiative and you're talking 2050 oh yeah you know that's their time horizon I'm trying to figure that that's right around the corner yeah I mean I can't believe we're about to be in the 2020 feels like I just graduated high school when you're looking at these opportunities there seems to be a big divergence of opinion in terms of networking between are you going to push the processing out to the edge and do as much of it possible there and only take the the subset of data from that processing or are you going to bring it in to some sort of center to do do the processing there yeah what are you what are you seeing in your five-year as the models of computer putting together compute storage and networking yeah for me I have a this is rukia's opinion but I think that in the future when we talk about compute we need to be able to chop it up and we need to sell it to individuals individuals could be enterprises or consumer in my world and the way I think about this I think that we have an enormous amount of opportunity to give customers freedom and flexibility if we're not able to give them freedom and flexibility I think that we really limit the possibilities of what truly podgy can bring and so in my world I believe that you should be able to prepay for your computing power I believe that you can literally distribute it among all your devices within your families like you know you have the family rate plans that the telcos are selling well think about this and that family rate plan now there's an additional component that you will sell which will be compute I may not want to go as fast as you like for gaming for instance absolutely right okay gaming for everyone and at the speed of what you need so atomic of components of compute that you can actually assign to individual users applications workloads yeah it's not - you told me tomorrow rookie what do you want to do that's not saying ok so what what are you doing here what's the connection between sort of Microsoft your role and you know this micron insight event micron is a a great partner with with Microsoft I think we do a lot of business as it relates to chips I specifically am here because Peggy Johnson supports the company and she's over our business development operations for the companies and she believes micron is on to something and so I'm proud to be here and getting to know more about the business visit micron and the partnerships that we can create in the future well we more partnerships obviously you need membrane storage to run all this totally do we can do it part of the build-out well Rukia thank you so much for for coming on the cube we'll give you the last word your takeaway is what should we be watching for from you and your group yeah I mean I think that as we go forth with our partnership with AT&T which happens to be one of the global carriers around the world we are planning for some amazing things and we will make announcements at our Microsoft ignite event in early November and so I hope that everyone will attend that event and perhaps support us by sharing the information and coming to talk to us about new partnerships with our clouds networking department great well we'll be there at ignite hope to have you back on that'll be great thank you and thank you everybody thank you David Fleur a great job with the crew which is a wrap from Pier 27 at Microsoft blending Microsoft mega you both say the same names right the insight conference micron inside 2019 check out Silicon angle comm check out the cube net for all the videos and we'll see you next time is Dave Volante for David floor thank you

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering micron inside 2018 brought to you by micron welcome back to San Francisco Bay everybody this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage my name is Dave Valentin I'm here with my co-host David Floria we're covering micron insight 2018 really bring it together memory storage and artificial intelligence talking about AI for good talking about changing the way in which we work new workloads Raj to Lori is here he's the senior vice president and general manager of microns a booming mobile business unit rise I think it's the fastest growing business unit at micron at least of XY's and Keith crescent is here is the senior vice a senior vice president at Qualcomm Keith welcome thank gentlemen thanks for coming on the cube okay thank you so right let's let's start with you what are the big trends that you see that are driving that at 60% growth rate in your business yeah I mean we are finding now that you know mobile phones and use of memory in mobile phones and this is DRAM and also use of storage in mobile phones this is where we actually you know like flash both are growing inside a mobile phone you know we've seen people launch you know four and six gigabyte phones and now we have our customers talking about 8 and 10 and 12 gigabyte phones in the future and one of the big reasons is the applications you know a lot of machine learning and AI applications from the phones and those are driving the need for a lot of increased both storage and memory so we talked about what's changing in your business over the last several years I mean mobile obviously exploded onto the scene but now people are talking about AI and mobile and and and just increase use cases and applications so what's going on from your perspective yeah I think my handset perspective there's been some visual changes right the screens got a little bigger the bezels get smaller phones get a little thinner and so you see some of the visual cues but really the excitement of what's going on underneath the visual cues so the amount of AI processing is accelerating at a rapid pace a lot of advanced cameras you know moving from two three four and now their phones with five cameras cameras to recognize depth perception there's a voice recognition so there's a lot of AI processing and a lot of capability getting into the phone for a variety of applications okay so voice recognition that makes sense you'd use AI for that but you're talking about AI in in visual and in in the handset talk more about that explain how that all works yeah so so actually I would argue that today imaging is probably the primary application of AI so cameras used to be just capturing pixels but now it's about much more than capturing pixels it's about understanding what those pixels are so are they recognizing objects or food or something else or is it facial recognition for things like payments and biometrics and so the cameras now are much more intelligent and with multiple cameras you're adding depth information so then you start to get to much higher levels of realism for things like avatar and gaming and other areas where the camera is capturing and also perceiving so not a hot dog for you fans of the show Silicon Valley so but Raj what does this all mean for the the memory and storage requirements yeah I mean eyes keep mentioned I think you know the mobile phone you know with the process from Qualcomm and and other processor vendors has really gotten to have a lot more camera applications and a lot more AI applications now there's a there's a difference when you actually drive applications that need AI and machine learning versus other applications and the difference is that the compute paradigm in AI and ml is different in the sense that these are like complex neural networks that need a load of lot of data very close to the processor to achieve the result so as more AI applications come in we are actually finding that the customers which are Qualcomm customers and our customers are asking for more processing from the airside but they're also asking for more higher speeds higher density memory to kite to couple tightly with the process so they can realize these AI applications for the consumers and also storage because sometimes you want to store a lot of the images and videos on the card so both storage and memory are increasing as applications come in but I'd like to ask about the gaming side of things and the ante AR that seems to me that is is starting to improve to a level which is frightening linear reality what do you have to do to get it to that stage where you can have true VR and have games for example which exploit that sure so maybe first I'll talk about gaming specifically gaming obviously continues to grow a lot of money in gaming gaming tournaments and so forth the gaming certainly is getting more realistic with better graphics and so forth better displays multiplayer gaming very hot right multiplayer gaming requires you know very fast connections very low latency connections to another source so play multiple players can play at the same time also many times for games you'll have a play with partners maybe you're on a team of five but now in coming soon maybe that team of five you don't need to find that fifth person or that fourth person maybe there's an AI engine that's running similar to the human capability and you're actually playing with a simulated player right from teams so there's in that require opens up a whole new area of processing for the games and then I think for AR and BR AR is a little further out than VR err requires some more advancements with respect to optics and so forth VR is taking you know high-end displays and AI and graphics kind of packaging it all into one to really change the paradigm of how you interact with the computer how does 5g change things is it is it as much of a game changer as people think or is there just so much data that it sort of allows us to keep pace I wonder if you can talk about 5g yeah so so you know every ten years or so there's a G transition 3G and 99 4G in 2009 now 5g in 2019 so it's not a ten-year cadence and every time when you have a G transition you couple that with a transition in computing and it changes the paradigm so what's gonna happen is 5g is gonna bring a lot more capacity a lot lower latency at the same time AI is coming in and that together is going to create a pretty powerful platform for applications for the future and then of course there's just so much more data now how do you guys keep because the you mentioned you know you've been talking to the to the street and you mentioned this morning that the the rate of bit density that is is moderating so how do you guys keep up where are your investments that allow you to keep pace yeah I mean we have a so just maybe a little bit of comment on 5g I think as the bandwidth to the device gets faster and faster there's more and more data that comes in that you can imagine for example one of the things people out of people like to do you know is to you know download content if you look at Netflix if you look at Amazon Prime if you look at even DirecTV and I have all of those you can actually download the content now and watch them offline so as it happens and that content gets to be 4k and an even higher frame rates the amount of storage that's needed to download that is getting more and more like you know you know my wife upgraded her phone the other day and the first thing she said is I want an entire Netflix season on my phone when I'm in the gym so so you know there's simple things like that I've changed a lot you know that's one of the reasons why the storage is getting so much now when you go to 5g and the download speed gets higher you can download like a 4k video really quickly now you got to put it somewhere after you downloaded so that's actually driving the need for this so before people wouldn't like download a 4k video because where would you put it so as we increase storage that kind of stuff comes really fast because you couldn't you know take a long time to download before so as the bandwidth gets higher the storage requirements the memory requirements are getting higher now what we are doing on that front is we're investing a lot you know as Sanjay and Scott talked earlier both in our fab capacity is both in our technology transitions we have a lot of new interesting technologies like new emerging memories they're actually like 3d crosspoint we talked about that kind of blur the line between storage and memory so there's a lot of new interesting technologies that will actually take advantage of that super exciting time so going back to the image processing side of that one of the trends it seems to me is that the processing is going further and further to the edge itself and going inside the camera itself do you talk a little bit about that and what it's going to take to to put that that your memory technology or bandwidth right inside the camera itself sure so so there's no doubt that you want to maximize the capability on the edge as a first step and then you want to reduce the late as much as possible to the cloud as a second step so on the edge you know if you had something for example if I'm taking a picture of you and I want face recognition I don't want to take every frame and send it up to the clouds I'm gonna waste bandwidth so on I want that capability on device and that's true for a variety of different applications you want to maximize the capability on device and then focus on the fast connection so the cloud and the device from a latency and bandwidth perspective are much tightly more tightly coupled you know you think about the evolution of computing you know obviously everything was centralized and then you know pcs the world was about pcs back then it was kind of the the centralization with it was a bit blip on the screen compared to the pcs was everything remember that and then of course mobile drove cloud through the roof and now with the edge and cloud and and mobile you're seeing just this ubiquitous capability that senses now you bring in AI you bring in machine intelligence it what do you guys envision for the for the next 10 years in terms of what the world looks like centralized decentralized distributed intelligent I mean it's just mind-boggling what's your vision well I think if you look at client devices client devices certainly generate a lot of data maybe we get a little bit of data from a sensor and a bridge but maybe we'll get a lot of data from the car traveling across that bridge and what you need to do is you need to make sense of that data locally and then transmit it back to the cloud so you want the cloud to have the most useful data or sorted data right data that can then improve you know automated driving or reduce traffic accidents and so forth but you don't want all the data sent there so what's gonna happen is on the edge there's literally you know a device is going from smartphones where there's about one and a half billion a year to billions even trillions of IOT connected devices any device that has a computing element also is can have a connectivity element also is going to have an AI element so it's gonna be a much more connected world as opposed to just connected people yeah I mean I think kids keep explained it very well you know you know if you step back a little bit I think that the history of technology and evolution has been very similar right in industry for a while but we all remember the times when we said we just did month one mainframe and everyone needs dumb terminals right then we went on to say hey you know what I think distributed computing with everyone having a pcs that I think you do now we are back to maybe we should have everything in the cloud and the edge devices so I actually think in a world goes cyclical and the more you do at the edge the more it drives the need for the cloud and we call it the virtuous cycle and I think the best way to think about it is you want the HD devices to send information not data which means they need to be for data needs to be processed with memory and compute to become information and then you send the information to the edge yeah I guess my point was that you know I've been around a while too and you're going to see the pendulum swing I feel like the pendulum is not swinging anymore it's just exploded inside it's really an exciting time in our industry guys thanks very much for coming thank you appreciate thank you all right keep right there everybody we'll be back at micron insight from the Embarcadero you're watching the cube right back [Music]

why from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the kue covering vmworld 2016 brought to you by vmware and its ecosystem sponsors now here's your host John furrier hey welcome back everyone we are here live in Las Vegas at the mandalay bay convention center in the hang space at vmworld 2016 i'm john fervid SiliconANGLE is our flagship program the cube where we go out to the events and extract the signal it annoys this is our seventh year covering vmworld and every year it gets bigger and better the cube and the guests on the content and I'm here with the person who's made it happen from day one Robyn Matlock was the CMO of VMware first of all congratulations on a great event and thank you for supporting the cube for seven years it's been fantastic and it gets better every year you well I'm thrilled to be here and you know a huge fan of the cube you're an integral part of the program so here we go again John we're ingesting all the day that we're analyzing and we're providing great great videos a lot of volume but what an interesting thing I want to get your take on because you have written the vmworld bus for a very long time don't remind me it's changed and grown and one of the conversations we've had all week is what I've been calling ecosystem two point oh what is the ecosystem going to evolve into for vmware and vm world and it's been interesting and so on to get your take on and one of the things that it was striking was what pat kelsey has said to me yesterday on the cube interview was VMware's not only if not a prop one product company anymore it has grown to be a multiple set of products on technologies which has created a diverse and growing community absolutely can you add some color to that because this has been it's always been the community is very strong in VMware vmworld and VMware so but it's evolving that's honestly shifting and changing it in bad way it's just growing and morphing can you comment on there I think it's a really interesting topic it's in it's a rich topic because it as VMware's business is changing first of all our value about the community has never changed I mean we really value an ecosystem our customers wanted expect that we work and play really well with the variety of technologies that are in their but of course is our business in portfolio has grown and expanded the nature of the types of companies that are engaged in and around as shifts and changes to and if it doesn't then we're probably all going to have some issues down the road so I think it's a lot like driven from customers what do they want all of us vendors to do to work together so their life is easier yeah and the other thing David's lawyer is the CTO Wikibon is very technical comment that it's the best vmworld ever from a statement of direction standpoints very clear that the data center role that vmware has and this intercloud in which we call Pat calls it cross cloud is a real rich area for innovation and growth oh I think we're just on the cusp of the potential of that so you heard us talk about the cross cloud architecture and we broke that down into a few things like the VMware cloud foundation that's recension the software-defined data center stack all with lifecycle management that you can consume on-premise and off premises the IBM partnership the opportunity for the V clutter network partners I mean there's just so many the size O's are involved in this it's just really it's almost like a whole economy that can integrate into this broader you know offering I guess with all that in mind how are you managing the logistics because you know it's pretty obvious at vmworld is back in Vegas Moscone is pretty much under construction for the next few years you're going to be here for a couple more years yes here for a couple more you learn and it's just growth in this community what's how do you do that what's the key keys to that you know I think first of all it's about really making sure you're connecting with your customers and your partners and it's about experiences right it's making sure that you're getting them the rich content this is a technical conference so we're going to be measured by did we showcase and engage our audience with the right kind of technical information give them hands-on access to the things that they want to learn and further their careers and you know I always use that it's like we've got to stay close to our customers so any feedback that you've heard positive areas to work on what are your thoughts and as you look back now it's day three looking out over the past few days and we can I say one of the things I'm most proud of and I am seeing it in the Twittersphere is the fact that we had a lot of customers do the talking customers do the showing there were over a hundred summer's here this week on panels in labs in keynotes on videos all talking about their experiences and this group of people they want to hear from their colleagues in their peers so I think customers really helped us this time tell our story and help people understand what does this mean for their business so customers coming on today on the cube so you continue to watch if you're out there I got to ask you the question because one of the things I every every cube event I always have my little puzzle pieces I want to try to figure out how know where the puzzle corners are and I've been asking all the VMware executives kind of hidden question but it's basically this what does VMware scan for and I've been kind of getting a couple different answers so you're obviously CMO so you're going to be right on message I want to get your thoughts on that but before your answer the best answer came from a former VMware employee Steve arid who is the CTO now he's a venture capitalist and just off the cuff II just said VMware likes to make complexity go away they want to simplify complexity create abstraction layers and that's essentially the theme of the show here so it's that how do you guys talk about that because the customers want to see the direction of VMware what is the official messaging what is is that is he on targeting me sees that you kind of made it comment like it's in the DNA of VMware I would agree that you know simplifying complexity is in our DNA I think it's a little bit hard to say that today's IT world though is simple III think we all have a long journey to really make IT simple I think we're about unleashing the innovation from IT and in order to do that you have to simplify the complicated so they can focus on the strategic right but I would say and our core what we're really about is how do we unleash that potential and remove obstacles simplify complexity to ensure they can contribute to their businesses with the most impact at the accelerated pace as possible that's why i think pats across cloud is interesting because that is certainly probably one of the most complex things to do absolutely to the cross cloud and only getting more complicated i think that's what we're seeing now you know fast for the cloud era is maturing but what we're finding now is businesses have many clouds they have SAS applications they have their private cloud they have multiple public clouds they have managed cloud services and we know we've been down this route before in the old compute server world managing these silos can become extremely complicated so I think right now we're already thinking about how do we drive this and simplify this other comment from our analyst kick off this morning and breaking down kind of the vmworld ecosystem and VMware and I like to get your thoughts on kind of the internal VMware conversation because I know and obviously the dell transaction with emc is going to be on the 7th so that's public now so but VMware it seems that David floyer said is unleashed and Michael Dell's making a commitment to VMware that's pretty sincere about being independent and partnering well I'm kind of seemed like EMC kind of had that invisible hand is invited to this David Floria said this but share some of the VMware because this is in the DNA is to be independent right you're right it is definitely in our culture and i think michael has been extremely consistent I've been with him in many meetings both public private and he is never wavered from his commitment to support VMware's independence to support our ecosystem and to really open up opportunities for us to grow at our full potential and I we are partnered with dell for a decade right this is not new to us and we have a great relationship with them regardless of this acquisition I think the opportunities and the doors are going to open even further there's a lot more we can do together but I really feel we've got a really good balance he knows that our ecosystem is the core success factor for us so ecosystem is a big big part of the success so in your definition what is the ecosystem two point oh I think the ecosystem involves a variety of things first of all there's emerging technologies their service providers their sizes there's the telcos there's ISVs there's the SAS providers there's the two-tier distribution the channel partners the people who touch the customers there's a consultants I mean I think it's just all evolving with us kind of in one big tornado you know I think it's all those things to get a lot of growth it's not a moving parts no and how about containers that so that you know a whole nother dimension right do and I was saying the container buzz was talking to Jerry Chen last night and say last year's all about containers only one session the cloud native session yesterday they did talk about it but it didn't dominate the show like it did last year the cross cloud really kinda was great and I'll see the end user computing stuff seems really compelling yeah I think things kind of ebb and flow it depends what's really new and so you know there's kind of different focuses each year I so give us the internal or our marketing philosophy now that you have stuff clicking together now with the product side you see the NSX with vsphere playing nicely it's a lot of stuff d-san is exploding the product the products are clicking absolutely oh there's a great chair that pad announced okay with it we'll do that later but how does that get marketed no product teams going to do it yes because it's interesting there's standalone products but also work well integrated yeah you know we're at this very interesting chasm and i would say we're kind of in our teenage years right now in my analogy and that when these products let's take virtual San or NSX when they're first coming out the door they need to be incubated and they need almost like startup attention and as marketers we wanted to give them that really dedicated focus but it's time for us now to grow into our 20s and what we need to do is to be more solution oriented and we need to be more industry oriented look at verticals and help our customers associate what's the impact in my world whether it's retail or its government or its healthcare so you'll see marketing at VMware shit more vertical solutions and verticals yes and by line of business kind of thing going on more mature more businesses I think it's really thing of the day our customers don't think about our line of businesses they think about what business problems are they trying to solve and they you know whatever business units we have is irrelevant to them I've taught in some of the VCS last night at that light speed party and a lot of Silicon Valley DC's were there and I said you know there's no Gartner Magic Quadrant for this horizontal solution set so you know usually have the magic quadrant you know the leadership's by categories but now you have this new kind of disruptive solution set which could be a vsphere here there and kind of stuff kind of cobble together integrated there's no magic quadrant for that so it's really hard for customers to find out the playbook right and we have to make that really simple for customers i also think that's the potential that vmware has which maybe is unique to a point product startup that they have one product we can put these things together for even more impact more value and a more seamless experience because i think that's key it's got to come together as an experience I no question Robin what are you going to take away from vmworld this year we're gonna take back to the ranch what are going to digest what are you going to share with your with your team and your colleagues that you've learned from this show you know I think we're really we're executing I think we've created a great experience I think we've attracted the right kinds of attendees you know this is just the first of many because we roll this program into barcelona in six weeks then we roll the following week all over asia i'm off to mumbai vented beijing we're just going to roll through Asia through December so the key is we're onto this right the content is right the cross cloud architecture is really resonating the cloud foundation it makes sense workspace one we just got to stay the course help make this stuff really simple and clear for our customers and partners that's great stuff it does make a lot of sense in and it's got clarity and you can see the 20 mile stare the straight and narrow and congratulations on a great vmworld John thank you so much appreciate it Robin Matlock CMO here inside the cube live at the Hang space the mandalay bay convention for vmworld 2016 you watching the cube

okay we're back live here at the OpenStack summit in Portland Oregon I'm John furry the founder SiliconANGLE comment rose mykos Dave a latte from Wikibon org this is silicon angles the cube our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise and certainly here OpenStack there's not a lot of noise but a lot of signal a lot of developers a lot of use cases really really the Alpha geeks the practitioner is really putting new technology into place to power this modern era of computing cloud mobile and social David Floria we're here with Demetri stilly at us from nudge networks and mountain view welcome to the cube thank you David I want to get your take on this before we set up this interview because honestly we've heard from right scale there in the management side just previous we've had Rackspace on earlier there on the Omni on the provider side we had big switch-on software-defined networking and now Dimitri's company the software is eating the world what's your take on the SDN market right now relative to OpenStack relative to open saying well what you're clearly wanting to do in every part of it is separate out all of the different layers and you ought to be able to separate out the physical and the the logical and the the software is the way that that's going to be done so instead of having to have a switch which is a piece of hardware and the software you want to separate the two out so that you have the logical function and the physical function from from the two pieces so that's very important to be able to contribute to every layer take new technologies along with you and then define the software element of that as the piece that you keep constant as technologies themselves adjust so durable code we walk manageable and build on and we clean can take advantage of new technologies as they come along and obviously I coming back to you what are you contributing what I think needs to be contributing was the white space in that area that you're going after right so see when people started thinking about the cloud and OpenStack and to always kind of think they they quickly realize that the network is a fundamental piece right you have to start with the network you have to interconnect your components and so on the angle that we are taking is yes it's good with in your data center within your cloud you have to create this network services interconnect applications and so on but much more importantly you need to be able to dynamically connect these applications with your existing network services right so you have a large amount of enterprise VPN services you have hybrid clouds coming out so you need to be able the moment you activate a network service in the data center to be able to seamlessly interconnect this now with your enterprise side with other network services in other data centers in other clouds and so on right so the network is always a network of networks and we have to bring everything together we cannot just restrict ourselves with is the confinements of a single administrative model so that's that's a fundamental part of what we are trying to to bring here together okay and so how are you fitting in with the the network layer right so our view is say that first of all we need to talk both both languages if you don't think of it as a as a translation thing right so we need to understand the language of the cloud we need to understand the language of the application developers in the cloud they want to use some abstract mechanism to define their network services and install them if you want in the hypervisors and OpenStack quantum seems to be the prevalent way to do that so that's language number one but then we have all these thousands of networks out there where their language is bgp so what we are doing is we are marrying the two we allow you to codon define services in OpenStack and we allow you to define the mekinese between interconnect the service is automatically with all the other networks that are out there right so I call it sometimes we are just translating between languages all right a language translator live from an application point of view they want to consume resources and previously networks and the computers were the main things they consumed but it seems now that sorry computing and storage with the main things they consumed but it now it seems that networks themselves have to pay a much bigger role in providing a quality of service to those places Rick you've got a quality of service down in the nano seconds when you get to the server level and used to have milliseconds for the for the storage side it's now coming down to micro second what are you doing to make sure that that quality of service no it is not just the bandwidth but it's also the latency are you planning to marry that see the weight datacenter networks of all these people are quickly realizing that the same if you want principles that we used in order to build the Internet itself can be used inside the data center so if you think about the internet right in the internet there is voice services that is video services there is all these other services running and they are actually running by assuming you have a well-engineered IP network and then you run the service is at the edges if you want all that you push all the intelligence at the edges it's the same thing where the network on the data center is going the data center network becomes a very scalable IP fabric it it is very well managed if you want very well traffic engineer and you push the edges at the hypervisors you push essentially the services at the hypervisors where traffic is differentiated so if you see for example a tenant misbehaving you are going to block him at the hypervisor layer if you're going to provide us or map different tenants to different classes of traffic it's happening at the hypervisor so the center of the network behaves like a scalable IP fabric and all the intelligence it's pushed around the edges and the reason you want to do that is because this allows you the ultimate scalability right the network or doesn't need to know about every flow that goes into the through through the corner of the network there right you don't need to know the IP addresses of virtual machines you don't need to know what individual virtual machines no need to know I want to do there you just need to worry about aggregates so you can engineer and scale the core make it very cheap and because you make it very tip you can increase the capacity at the core and you can say distribute all the intelligence at the edges of the network right but so you said that you can do the hypervisor and that's obviously on the compute side that side of it but what about the data network isn't that a don't you need to regulate the priorities and flex all the data through and isn't that today that's that's a very big part of it yes but it is still happening at the hypervisor right the the first touch of it enough an application with a network it is not anymore the top of rack sheets let's say on the data center but it does it is actually the hypervisor virtual sheets right that's the first time that you see a packet when a packet comes out of a virtual machine the first time you see it is at the hypervisor itself and at this layer when the first time you see the bucket of the hypervisor itself is where you apply all your policies right in other words the edge of the network is not the hardware is not the switch on the top of rack the edge of the network is inside the server now ok yeah ok excellent so I want to ask you we have a couple minutes left here I wanted we have two minutes less I want to get your perspective on the state of the business around OpenStack what is your view ok because your chief architects you're looking at the tech yes and you but you have to intersect the business objectives what are you seeing as the core business drivers that are that are causing you to make your technology in a certain way right so it's clear that what people want to do is they they want to provide this ability to their end users to consume services rapidly right that is what is driving this call OpenStack development and more important the community came together in order to unify view on the core engine and the core AP is in order to make this consumption of services very easy and in order to allow the application developers to move from one cloud to the other and so on right what we do is what we try to do is in addition is expanding view on this model amazing the network as consumable as the storage and compute facilities right and I'm not talking just about the network in the data center I'm talking about also the network in the way that the service in the data center of a cloud provider will interconnect with the enterprise read if you see then the next if you want Holy Grail that everybody is talking about is the hybrid cloud the hybrid cloud is only possible if you can connect the network and the services in the service provider cloud with a network and services in the in the in the enterprise itself right so they what links the two together is the network so we have to make this network to be consumable final question for you is actually DevOps is a mindset we heard from right scale that that adoption is in mainstream enterprises and service providers but the word infrastructure as code is becoming more popular outside of the the geeks and the album the architects the coders what in your mind how would you describe infrastructure as code to the folks out there give it a try it's okay no right answer it's a moving target that's what it is realities it's that the applications and code is a living organization it's constantly changing and you cannot assume at any point it's static right it's not there it's not the good old days if you want and that's what it really means right it's a living organism it it will constantly adapt to the new to the new requirements out there like switches in the old days you knew exactly ports and you you knew i was going now it's all kinds of weird stuff happening right it's all stuff you you have to be you you have to accept change if you want right so it's the actually there is a there is an okay Isaac Asimov code right there another the author of the science fiction yes that's the only constant is change yeah we should be no project just on the network genome here Software Defined Networking Dmitry stylianos thanks for jumping inside the cube again you're here like with a lot of the chief architects making things happen congratulations thanks for joining us thank you we'll be right back with more analysis from David's lawyer after the at break on a breakdown day 1 and day chu here in more depth from the analysts here at opens Dec 2 SiliconANGLE Gibbons exclusive coverage of OpenStack summit be right back