(uplifting music) >> Hello and welcome to this special CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, here in Palo Alto at theCUBE studios for a special conversation with Tarun Thaker, general manager of Datos IO, part of Rubrik. Last time I interviewed you, you were the CEO. You guys got acquired, congratulations. >> Thank you, thank you, John. Very happy to be here. >> How'd that go? How'd the acquisition go? >> Excellent, excellent. I Met Bipul about August of last year and it was sort of perfect marriage waiting to happen. We were both going after the broader irresistible opportunity of data management. >> I've enjoyed our previous conversations because you guys were a hot, growing start up and then you look at Rubrik, if you look at the success that they've been having, just the growth in data protection, the growth in cloud, you guys were on with from the beginning with Datos. Now you got a management team, you got all this growth, it is pretty fun to watch and I'll see you locally in Palo Alto so it's been interesting to see you guys. Huge growth opportunity. Cloud people are realizing that this is not a side decision. >> No. >> It's got to be done centrally. The customers are re architecting to be cloud native. The on premises, we saw big industry movements happening with Amazon at VMworld announcing RDS on VMware on premises. >> Correct. >> Which validates that the enterprises want to have a cloud operation, both on premise. >> Yes. >> And in cloud. How has this shaped you guys? You have big news, but this is a big trend. >> No, absolutely. John, I think you rightly said, the pace of innovation at Rubrik and the pace of market adoption is beyond everybody's imagination, right? When I said that it was sort of a marriage waiting to be happened, is if you look at the data management tam it's close to 50 billion dollars, right? And you need to build a portfolio of products, right? You need to sort of think about the classical data center applications because on prem is still there and on premises is still a big part of spending. But if you look at where enterprises are racing to the cloud. They're racing given digital transformation. They're racing customer 360 experience. Every organization, whether it be financials, maybe healthcare, maybe commerce, wants to get closer to the end customers, right? And if you look underneath that macro trend, it's all this cloud native space. Whether it be Kubernetes and Docker based containers or it could be RDS which is natively built in the cloud or it could be, hey I want to now run Oracle in the cloud, right? Once you start thinking of this re architecting stack being built in the cloud, enterprises will not leap and spend those top dollars that they spend on prem if they don't get a true, durable data management stack. >> And one of the things I really was impressed when you Datos, now it's part of Rubrik, is you were cloud up and down the stack. You were early on cloud, you guys thought like cloud native. Your operations was very agile. >> Thank you. >> Everything about you, beyond the product, was cloud. This is a critical success now for companies. They have to not just do cloud with product. >> Correct. >> Their operational impact has to be adjusted, how they do business, the supply chains, the value chains. These things are changing. >> The licensing, the pricing. >> This is the new model. >> Yes. >> This is where the data comes in. This is where the support comes in. You guys have some hard news, Datos IO 3.0. What's the big news? >> John, as you said, we've been very squarely focused on what we called the NoSQL big data market, right? We, if you look at, you know you talked about Amazon RDS, if you go to the Amazon business, Amazon database business is about four billon dollars today, right? Just think about that. If you take a guess on number one data base in Amazon native, it's not Oracle, it's MySQL. Number two, it's not SQL Server, it's Mongo DB. So if you look at the cloud native stack, we made this observation four years ago, as you said, that underneath this was all NoSQL. We really found that blue ocean, as we call it, the green field opportunity and go build the next Veritas for that space. You know, with 3.0, Bipul likes to call it in accordance to his leadership, consolidate your gains. Once you find an island full of gold coins, you don't leave that island. (laughing) You go double down, triple down, right? You don't want to distract your focus so 3.0 is all about us focusing. Really sort of the announcements are rooted around three vectors, as we call it. Number one, if you look at why Rubrik was so successful, you know you went into a pretty gorilla market of backup but why Rubrik has been successful at the heart is this ease of use and simplicity. And we wanted to bring that culture into, not only Datos team, but also into our product, right? So that was simplicity. Large scale distributive systems are difficult to deploy and manage so that was the first part. Second part was all about, you know, if you look at Mongo. Mongo has gone from zero to four billion dollars in less than 10 years. Every Fortune 2000, 500, Global 2000 customer is using Mongo in some critical way. >> Why is that? I mean people were always, personally we love Mongo DB, but people were predicting their demise every year. "Oh, it's never going to scale," I've heard people say and again, this is the competition. >> Correct. >> We know who they are. But why is the success there? Obviously NoSQL and unstructured data's big tsunami and there's more data coming in than ever before. Why are they successful? >> Excellent. That's why I enjoy being here, you go to the why not the what and the how. And the why is rooted for why Mongo DB's so successful, is application developers. We've all read this book, developers are the king makers of the IT, not your IT and storage admins? And Mongo found that niche, that if I can go build a database which is easier for an application developer, I will build a company. And that was the trend they built the company around. Fast forward, it's stock that is trading at $80 a piece. >> Yeah. >> To four billion plus in market. >> Yeah and I think the other thing I would just add, just riffing on that, is that cloud helps. Because where Mongo DB horizontally scales-- >> Elastic. >> The old critics were saying, thinking vertical scale. >> Correct. >> Cloud really helps that. >> Absolutely, absolutely. Cloud is our elastic resources, right? You turn it out and you turn it down. What we found in the first, as you know in the last two to three years journey of 1.0, 2.0, that we were having a great reception with Mongo DB deployments and again, consolidate your gains towards Mongo so that was the second vector, making Datos get scale out for Mongo DB deployments. Number three, which is really my most favorite was really around multi cloud is here, right? No enterprise is going to really, bet only on one form of Amazon or one form of Google Cloud, they're going to bet it across these multiple clouds, right? We were always on Amazon, Google. We now announced Datos natively available on Amazon, so now if you have enterprise customers doing NoSQL applications in Amazon, you can protect that data natively to the cloud, being the Azure cloud. >> So which clouds are you guys supporting now with 3.0? Can you just give the list? >> Yep, yep. We supported Amazon from very early days, AWS. Majority of customers are on Amazon. Number two is Google Cloud, we have a great relationship with Google Cloud team, very entrepreneurial people also. And number three's Azure. The fourth, which is sort of a hidden Trojan horse is Oracle Cloud. We also announced Datos on Oracle Cloud. Why, you may ask? Because if you look at, again, NoSQL and data stacks in Cassandra, we saw a very healthy ecosystem building for Cassandra and Oracle Cloud, for obvious reasons. It was very good for us to follow that tailwind. >> Interestingly I was just at Oracle yesterday for a briefing, and I'm not going to reveal any confidential information, because it's all on the record. They're heavily getting to cloud native. They have to. >> They have to. There's no choice. They cannot be like tiptoeing, they have to go all in. >> And microservices are a big thing. This is something that you guys now have focus on. Talk about the microservices. How does that fit in? Because you look at Kubernetes, Kubernetes is becoming that kind of TCPIP moment for the cloud world or TCPIP powered networked and created inter working. The inter cloud or the multi cloud relationship? >> Correct, all the cloud native. >> Kubernetes is becoming that core catalyst. Got containers on one side, service meshes on the other. This brings in the data equation, stateful applications, stateless applications, this is going to change the game for developers. >> Absolutely. >> Actually now you have a backup equation, how do you know what to back up? >> Correct. >> What's the data? >> Correct. >> What's the impact? >> Yeah. So the announcement that we announced, just to cover that quickly, is we were seeing that trend. If you look at these developers or these DBAs or data base admins who are going to the cloud and racing to the cloud? They're not deploying OVA files. They're not deploying, as you said, IP network files, right? They want to deploy these as containerized applications. So running Mongo as a Docker container or Cassandra as a Docker container or Couch as a Docker container and you cannot go to them as a data management product as an age old mechanism of various bits and bytes. So we announced two things, Datos is now available as a Docker container, so you can just get a Docker file and run your way. And number two is we can also protect your NoSQL applications that are Dockerized or that are containerized, right? And that's really our first step into what you're seeing with Amazon EKS, right? Elastic Kubernetes Service. If you saw NetApp announced yesterday the acquisition of Kubernetes as a service, right? And so our next step, now that we've enabled Docker container of Datos, is to how do we bring Kubernetes as a service on top of Docker because Docker to deploy, orchestrate, manage that by itself is really still a challenge. >> Yeah containers is the stepping stone to orchestration. >> Correct, correct. >> You need Kubernetes to orchestrate the containers. >> That is correct, that is correct. >> Alright so summarize the announcements. If you had to boil this down, what's the 3.0? >> So if I were to sort come back and give you sort of the headline message, it is really our release to go crack open into the Fortune 500, Global 2000 enterprises. So if you remember, 60% of our customers are already what we call it internally, R2K, global 2000 customers so Datos, 60% of our customers who are large Fortune 500 customers. >> They're running mission critical? >> They're mission critical, no support applications. >> So you're supporting mission critical applications? >> Absolutely, some of our biggest customers, ACL Worldwide, one of the largest financial leading organization. Home Depot, that we have talked about in the past, right? Palo Alto Networks, the worlds largest cloud security networking company, right? If you look at these organizations they are running cloud native applications today. And so this release is really our double down into cracking open the Global 2000 enterprises and really staying focused at that market. >> And multi cloud is critical for you guys? >> Oh, absolutely. Any enterprise software company without, especially a data company, right? At the end of the day, it's all about data. >> Tarun, talk about why multi cloud, at some point. I'd love to get your expert opinion on this because you know Kubernetes, you see what's coming around the corner with service meshes and all this cool stuff because it impacts the infrastructure. With multi cloud, certainly what everyone's asking about, hybrid and multi cloud. Why is multi cloud important? What's the impact of multi cloud? >> Great question, John. You know, I think it's rooted in sort of three key reasons, right? Number one, if you look at what enterprises did back in the day, right history repeats itself, right? They never betted only on IBM servers. They bought Dell servers, they bought HP servers. Never anybody betted only on ESX as the virtual hypervisor platform. They betted on KBM and others, right? Similarly if you look at these enterprises, the ones that we talked about, Palo Alto Networks, they're going to run some of the applications natively on Amazon but they want DR in Google Cloud so think about a business use case being across clouds. So that's the one, right? I want to run some applications in Amazon because of elasticity, ease of use, orchestration but I want to keep my DR in a different site but I don't want to a colo, right? I want to do another cloud, so that's one. Number two is some of your application developers are, you know, in different regions, right? You want to enable sort of different cloud sites for them, right? So it's just locality, would be more of a reason and number three which is actually, probably I think the most important, is if you look at Amazon and what they have done with the book business, what they've done with others, e-commerce organizations like eBay, like Home Depot, like Foot Locker, they're very wary of betting the farm on a retail organization. Fundamentally Amazon is a retail organization, right? So they will go back, their use cases on Google cloud, they'll go back their use cases on Azure cloud so it's like vertical. Which vertical is prone or more applicable to a particular cloud, if that make sense? >> And so having multi vendors been around for a while in the enterprise, so multi vendor just translates to multi cloud? >> There you go, yes, yes. >> How about what's goin' on with you guys? Next week is Microsoft Ignite, their big cloud show from Microsoft. You guys have a relationship with them. In November you announced a partnership. >> Correct. >> Rubrik and you guys are doing that, so what's going on with them? You're co-selling together? Are they joint developing? What's the update? >> Ignite, so Microsoft, I'll give an update on Microsoft and then Ignite. As you know, John Thompson is on our board and you know fundamentally the product that we have built, Azure team, working with them, we have come to realize that it's a great product to bring data to the cloud. >> Right. >> And we have a very good, strong product relationship with Microsoft, we have a co-sell meaning their reps can sell Rubrik and get quota retirement, that's massive, right? Think for both the companies, right? And companies don't make those decisions, John, lightly. Those decisions are made very strictly. >> Quota relief is great. >> It's huge. >> It's a sales force for you guys. >> Exactly, yep. For us, specifically on Ignite, with this release we announced Azure. We worked very closely with the Azure storage division. When we pitched them, hey we are now, Datos is available on Azure, the respect that we got was amazing. We had a Microsoft quote in our press release. At Ignite next week we have dedicated sessions talking about NoSQL back ups on Microsoft, natively being protected on Azure Cloud. It's good for them, good for us, huge announcement next week. >> That's good. You guys have done the work in the cloud and it's interesting, early cloud adopters get some dividends on that. Just to summarize the chat here, if you had to talk to customer who's watching or interested and sees all this competition out there, a lot of noise in the industry, how would you summarize your value proposition? What's the value that you're bringing to the table? How do you guys compete on that value? Why Datos? >> Perfect, thank you. It's, again, simple order in one to three. Number one, we're helping you accelerate journey to the cloud. Right, you want to go the cloud, we understand Fortune 500 enterprises want to race to the cloud. You don't want to race without protection, without data management. It's your data, it needs to be in your control so that's one. We're helping you race to the cloud, yet keeping your data in your hands. Number two, you are buying a truly cloud native software not a software that was built 20 years ago and shrink wrapped into cloud. This is a product built into technologies which are cloud native, right? Elasticity, you can scale up Datos, you can scale down Datos, just like Amazon resources so you're truly buying an elastic technologies rooted data management product. And number three, you know if you really look at cloud, cloud to you as a customer is all about, hey can I build, not lift and shift, cloud native. And you're adopting these new technologies, you don't want to not think about protection, management, DR, those critical business use cases. >> And thinking differently about cloud operations is critical. Great to see you Tarun. Thanks for coming on and sharing the news on Datos 3.0, appreciate it. I'm John Furrier, here in Palo Alto Studios with the general manager of Datos IO, now part of Rubrik, formerly the CEO of Datos, Tarun Thaker, thanks for watching. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching theCUBE. (uplifting music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by: AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Well, welcome back to the Sands Expo. Here we are in Las Vegas in re:Invent with just about 50 000 of our closest friends. Big AWS community gathering here all week long and it's a pleasure to be here with you on the CUBE, along with Keith Townsend. I'm John Walls and we're now joined by Peter Smails, who is the vice president of marketing and business developing at Datos IO. Peter, good to see ya. >> Thanks for having me and glad to be back. I love being on the CUBE. >> You were just last week, right? >> Keith: Yeah. >> CUBE conversations with John Fury or so we're going to have to start charging you rent. (laughs) >> I only have two numbers in my head right now: 18 billion, 40% CAGR. Those are the only two numbers I have in my head right now. For those of you not in the know, those are the numbers that AWS was talking about in terms of revenue and growth. Crazy times, crazy show, good stuff. >> This show really does embody that. It certainly illustrates that. We've only been here for... the doors have been open for about a half hour or so. Already wall-to-wall traffic. >> People were queuing up to get into the expo floor, which I don't think I've seen that. >> I swung by our booth, 2825. I swung by there at 11:20 and it was standing room only. It's great. I mean, the buzz, you can feel it. If you're not down on the floor, come down to the floor, cause you can just feel the energy. >> And even still, just walking up here, if you've been here to the Sands, you've got these giant hallways. I was here probably two hours ago and it was already wall-to-wall people and it was just packed. I was really impressed. >> The conference started in full tilt at seven o'clock this morning. People were just out and just engaging. >> So you guys, you're here, your relationship obviously at AWS, we're gonna get into that >> Yeah. You got the booth here, 2825? >> 2825. Yes sir. >> So let's talk about, first off, about your presence here. >> Peter: Yeah >> What brings you into this community? You've been here for a while now. >> Peter: Yeah. >> And maybe the evolution of that from the three or four years-- >> Sure. back to where you are now. Yeah, so our view of the world aligns incredibly well with AWS. The whole notion of the world's moving to the cloud. We've been in business since 2014. We are a cloud data management company with primary use cases around backup and recovery. There's all those things like data mobility and essentially our view of the world and our strategy is that as the world moves to the cloud, organizations are building net new applications. They're building modern applications that they're running on hybrid cloud environments. Those applications need a fundamentally new approach to data management. That's what we do. About 50% of our customers run natively on AWS. So this is a very logical show for us. We've got customers building these new modern applications. They're hosting them natively in AWS. They need backup and recovery. They need data mobility. That's what we do. It's just a perfect fit for us. >> So Peter, let's talk a little bit about data mobility. You guys are unapologetically cloud first. We've had this conversation in the past just offline. Talk to me about that conversation with customers. How that's evolved from three, four years ago to now. >> (chuckles) I'll use another quote from Andy, from earlier this week, or I guess this is from Jeff Basil, so theoretically it's the whole thing about they're willing to be misunderstood for a while. You go back four years, early days, yeah, we were doing cloud first, backup and recovery for modern applications built on the MongoDB's, the Cassandra's, the non relational databases. It's going to a non relational world. In the early days people would laugh and they'd be like, "Why you doing that?" We were steadfastly believing then, as we do now, that the world is moving to the cloud. The world is moving largely to a non relational world and so there's going to be a huge opportunity to provide data management solutions. Data aware, data management solutions for that. So we've stuck to that. We've been steadfast in that. But your point about maturity, what's been really exciting for us as an organization is that, I go back even a year, and you talk about, so what do you do? And you give 'em the pitch and there was a fair amount of nuance to it and they'd be like (garbles). They'd sort of give you the "hmm". They'd kind of ask questions or whatever and then once you talk through it, maybe it was a 10 minute elevator pitch, if you will. You had to go like 20 floors. They got it but it was a little bit more nuanced. Now it's, okay great, are you moving to the cloud? No brainer. Are you building modern applications? Are you importing your old applications, building these new modern applications in a non relational world. Absolutely. Are they running a production? Yes. How are you protecting those applications? We have no idea, kinda thing or we're using native tools or we're scripting or we're not doing anything. So it varied to your point. The conversation has become much less, it's not even nuanced anymore. The qualifying questions are incredibly simple and our value proposition is incredibly easy. If you're running applications, if you've built net new modern applications running in the cloud, or on-prem that you want to back up to the cloud, you need modern data protection. That's what we do. >> Let's talk about this hybrid IT scenario. I was at dinner last night with a couple Fortune 500 AWS customers and I was talking to them about the excitement of this whole category, data protection. They were like, backup? How is that sexy at at all? Then we got into this use case of data mobility, of I've built something really big on-prem and I need John Hastings term: "I need a multi-cloud strategy." >> Yeah, John's not a huge multi... He pressed me last week on the whole multi-cloud. >> Kevin: Fourier is-- Yeah, oh yeah, sorry (laughs) >> John: I don't want you to reach over and back slap me here. >> Peter: So you're all in on multi-cloud. It's Fourier we gotta worry about. >> John: My whole life. >> Talk to us about the importance of using what we would have traditionally called backup as a data mobility strategy. >> Cool. Absolutely. It all kinda comes down to for us, being data aware. If you think about it, we're a cloud data management company. Our number one use case is backup and recovery because the first thing you have to do is you gotta capture the data, you've gotta. >> Backup recovery of my VMs right? >> Good question. We are unlike traditional backup and recovery. We're not infrastructure-centric. We're application-centric. We're actually agnostic to the underlying infrastructure. So if you're running bare metal on-prem, if you're running on EC2, if you're leveraging S3, wherever you're running, we're fine because we integrated the application level, the database level. Hence our focus on non relational. Our number one use case is protecting that data. Because we are application aware, because we're data aware and we integrated the database level, we understand the underlying scheme. We are aware of the data structures within the databases that people are protecting first and foremost. But in the context of data mobility to your point, the number two use case for us is that organizations want to protect their data but then they want to do things like, I wanna spin up copies or sub-copies of my data, of my backup copies for test F, for QA, for performance testing, for cloud instantiation, for archiving, for BI, for whatever I want to do. The key is, we're not a migration company. AWS has migration services. If you need to move two petabytes of data from on-prem and you're now gonna host it in the cloud, that's not us, but if you built these new applications and you want to basically intelligently use subsets of your data for those workloads I was talking about, we enable you to be incredibly intelligent about only recovering if you will or only moving the data that you need. For example, simple things like, with our RecoverX 2.5 that we just announced. We do something called quierably recovery. What that means is, I can do everything from star dot Peter star or I can pick individual rows and columns. >> John: Just pick and choose? >> I can pick and choose based upon my database scheme. I can mast columns of data if I have to do GDPR compliance or PII. So from a used case standpoint, it's all about being aware of the data that you actually in the first place you're backing up, but then what data you wanna move so that you can be incredibly intelligent and efficient about the data that you're moving. >> So in traditional systems, I can encrypt data at rest. I can back it up. My tapes can be encrypted. My discs that's holding that back up data can be encrypted. When I think about that, when it comes to backing up object storing into the cloud, how do I do that with...? >> Great question. Again, because we're not infrastructure based, we're not LUN based, we're not block based, we integrate at the database level. We're completely transparent to encryption. We work perfectly fine with encrypted data. We work perfectly fine with compressed data. We invented something called semantic de-duplication. If you're familiar with traditional de-duplication. >> Keith: Right. >> It works in a block level. Fixture varying length block. In a clustered database environment or in a compressed or encrypted data environment, it kinda throws the capabilities of traditional de-dup out the window. Semantic de-duplication understands the scheme of the underlying database. We are highly efficient de-duplication for encrypted data, for compressed data. We're transparent to that, if you will. So again, back to our cloud first model, we built that in from day one. It's a fundament, our underlying architecture, the platform that we've built is fundamentally unlike anything else from a traditional backup and recovery or data management platform. >> So make sure I get it right before we say good-bye. Datos IO 2825? >> 2825, correct. www.DatosIO If you are running applications in the cloud and need to protect those apps, please talk to us. We'd love to help you out. If you're looking for data mobility solutions, come talk to us. >> John: There's the pitch. >> Love to chat. >> Peter, thanks for being with us. Next week you're off, all right? >> We'll have to cancel that one because I'm back next week. >> John: Back to back cupers, but maybe we'll give you a week off. >> Thanks for having me, always like being here. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for being with us. Back for more here at re:Invent. We're in Las Vegas live here on the CUBE. Back with more right after this.

(light orchestral music) >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Cube Conversation here at the Palo Alto studios for theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. We're here for some news analysis with Peter Smails, the CMO of Datos.IO D-a-t-o-s dot I-O. Hot new start up with some news. Peter was just here for a thought leader segment with Chris Cummings talking about the industry breakdown. But the news is hot, prior to re:Invent which you will be at? >> Absolutely. >> RecoverX is the product. 2.5, it's a release. So, you've got a point release on your core product. >> Correct. >> Welcome to this conversation. >> Thanks for having me. Yeah, we're excited to share the news. Big day for us. >> All right, so let's get into the hard news. You guys are announcing a point release of the latest product which is your core flagship, RecoverX. >> Correct. >> Love the name. Love the branding of the X in there. It reminds me of the iPhone, so makes me wanna buy one. But you know ... >> We can make that happen, John. >> You guys are the X Factor. So, we've been pretty bullish on what you guys are doing. Obviously, like the positioning. It's cloud. You're taking advantage of the growth in the cloud. What is this new product release? Why? What's the big deal? What's in it for the customer? >> So, I'll start with the news, and then we'll take a small step back and sort of talk about why exactly we're doing what we're doing. So, RecoverX 2.5 is the latest in our flagship RecoverX line. It's a cloud data management platform. And the market that we're going after and the market we're disrupting is the traditional data management space. The proliferation of modern applications-- >> John: Which includes which companies? >> So, the Veritas' of the world, the Commvault's of the world, the Dell EMC's of the world. Anybody that was in the traditional-- >> 20-year-old architected data backup and recovery software. >> You stole my fun fact. (laughs) But very fair point which is that the average age approximately of the leading backup and recovery software products is approximately 20 years. So, a lot's changed in the last 20 years, not the least of which has been this proliferation of modern applications, okay? Which are geo-distributed microservices oriented and the rapid proliferation of multicloud. That disrupts that traditional notion of data management specifically backup and recovery. That's what we're going after with RecoverX. RecoverX 2.5 is the most recent version. News on three fronts. One is on our advanced recovery, and we can double-click into those. But it's essentially all about giving you more data awareness, more granularity to what data you wanna recover and where you wanna put it, which becomes very important in the multicloud world. Number two is what we call data center aware backup and recovery. That's all about supporting geo-distributed application environments, which again, is the new normal in the cloud. And then number three is around enterprise hardening, specifically around security. So, it's all about us increased flexibility and new capabilities for the multicloud environment and continue to enterprise-harden the product. >> Okay, so you guys say significant upgrade. >> Peter: Yep. >> I wanna just look at that. I'm also pretty critical, and you know how I feel on this so don't take it personal, multicloud is not a real deal yet. It's in statement of value that customers are saying-- It's coming! But cloud is here today, regular cloud. So, multicloud ... Well, what is multicloud actually mean? I mean, I can have multiple clouds but I'm not actually moving workloads across clouds, yet. >> I disagree. >> Okay. >> I actually disagree. We have multiple customers. >> All right, debunk that. >> I will debunk that. Number one use case for RecoverX is backup and recovery. But with a twist of the fact that it's for these modern applications running these geo-distributed environments. Which means it's not about backing up my data center, it's about, I need to make a copy of my data but I wanna back it up in the cloud. I'm running my application natively in the cloud, so I want a backup in the cloud. I'm running my application in the cloud but I actually wanna backup from the cloud back to my private cloud. So, that in lies a backup and recovery, and operation recovery use case that involves multicloud. That's number one. Number two use case for RecoverX is what we talk about on data mobility. >> So, you have a different definition of multicloud. >> Sorry, what was your-- Our definition of multicloud is fundamentally a customer using multiple clouds, whether it be a private on-prem GCP, AWS, Oracle, any mix and match. >> I buy that. I buy that. Where I was getting critical of was a workload. >> Okay. >> I have a workload and I'm running it on Amazon. It's been architected for Amazon. Then I also wanna run that same workload on Azure and Google. >> Okay. >> Or Oracle or somewhere else. >> Yep. >> I have to re-engineer it (laughs) to move, and I can't share the data. So, to me what multicloud means, I can run it anywhere. My app anywhere. Backup is a little bit different. You're saying the cloud environments can be multiple environments for your solution. >> That is correct. >> So, you're looking at it from the other perspective. >> Correct. The way we define ourselves is application-centric data management. And what that essentially means is we don't care what the underlying infrastructure is. So, if you look at traditional backup and recovery products they're LUN-based. So, I'm going to backup my storage LUN. Or they're VM-based. And a lot of big companies made a lot of money doing that. The problem is they are no LUN's and VM's in hybrid cloud or multicloud environment. The only thing that's consistent across application, across cloud-environments is the data and the applications that are running. Where we focus is we're 100% application-centric. So, we integrate at the database level. The database is the foundation of any application you create. We integrate there, which makes us agnostic to the underlying infrastructure. We run, just as examples, we have customers running next generation applications on-prem. We have customers running next generation applications on AWS in GCP. Any permutation of the above, and to your point about back to the multicloud we've got organizations doing backup with us but then we also have organizations using us to take copies of their backup data and put them on whatever clouds they want for things like test and refresh. Or performance testing or business analytics. Whatever you might wanna do. >> So, you're pretty flexible. I like that. So, we talked before on other segments, and certainly even this morning about modern stacks. >> Yeah. >> Modern applications. This is the big to-do item for all CXOs and CIOs. I need a modern infrastructure. I need modern applications. I need modern developers. I need modern everything. Hyper, micro, ultra. >> Whatever buzz word you use. >> But you guys in this announcement have a couple key things I wanna just get more explanation on. One, advanced recovery, backup anywhere, recover anywhere, and you said enterprise-grade security is the third thing. >> Yep. >> So, let's just break them down one at a time. Advanced recovery for Datos 2.5, RecoverX 2.5. >> Yep. >> What is advanced recovery? >> It's very specifically about providing high levels of granularity for recovering your data, on two fronts. So, the use case is, again, backup. I need to recover data. But I don't wanna necessarily recover everything. I wanna get smarter about the data I wanna recover. Or it could be for non-operational use cases, which is I wanna spin up a copy of data to run test dev or to do performance testing on. What advanced recovery specifically means is number one, we've introduced the notion of queryble recovery. And what that means is that I can say things like star dot John star. And the results returning from that, because we're application-centric, and we integrated the database, we give you visibility to that. I wanna see everything star dot John star. Or I wanna recover data from a very specific row, in a very specific column. Or I want to mask data that I do not wanna be recovered and I don't want people to see. The implications of that are think about that from a performance standpoint. Now, I only recover the data I need. So, I'm very, very high levels of granularity based upon a query. So, I'm fast from an RTO standpoint. The second part of it is for non-operational requirements I only move the data that is select to that data set. And number three is it helps you with things like GDPR compliance and PII compliance because you can mask data. So, that's query-based recovery. That's number one. The second piece of advanced recovery is what we call incremental recovery. That is granular recovery based upon a time stamp. So, you can get within individual points in time. So, you can get to a very high level of granularity based upon time. So, it's all about visibility. It's your data and getting very granular in a smart way to what you wanna recover. So, if I kind of hear what you're saying, what you're saying is essentially you built in the operational effectiveness of being effective operationally. You know, time to backup recovery, all that good RTO stuff. Restoring stuff operationally >> Peter: Very quickly. >> very fast. >> Peter: In a smart way. >> So, there's a speed game there which is table stakes. But you're real value here is all these compliance nightmares that are coming down the pike, GDPR and others. There's gonna be more. >> Peter: Absolutely. I mean, it could be HIPPA, it could be GDPR, anything that involves-- >> Policy. >> Policies. Anything that requires, we're completely policy-driven. And you can create a policy to mask certain data based upon the criteria you wanna put in. So, it's all about-- >> So you're the best of performance, and you got some tunability. >> And it's all about being data aware. It's all about being data aware. So, that's what advanced recovery is. >> Okay, backup anywhere, recover anywhere. What does that mean? >> So, what that means is the old world of backup and recovery was I had a database running in my data center. And I would say database please take a snapshot of yourself so I can make a copy. The new world of cloud is that these microservices-based modern applications typically run, they're by definition distributed, And in many cases they run distributed across they're geo-distributed. So, what data center aware backup and recovery is, use a perfect example. We have a customer. They're running their eCommerce. So, leading online restaurant reservations company. They're running their eCommerce application on-prem, interestingly enough, but it's based on Cassandra distributed database. Excuse me, MongoDB. Sorry. They're running geo-distributed, sharded MongoDB clusters. Anybody in the traditional backup and recovery their head would explode when you say that. In the modern application world, that's a completely normal use case. They have a data center in the U.S. They have a data center in the U.K. What they want is they wanna be able to do local backup and recovery while maintaining complete global consistency of their data. So again, it's about recovery time ultimately but it's also being data aware and focusing only on the data that you need to backup and recovery. So, it's about performance but then it's also about compliance. It's about governance. That's what data center aware backup is. >> And that's a global phenomenon people are having with the GO. >> Absolutely. Yeah, you could be within country. It could be any number of different things that drive that. We can do it because we're data aware-- >> And that creates complexity for the customer. You guys can take that complexity away >> Correct. >> From the whole global, regional where the data can sit. >> Correct. I'd say two things actually. To give the customers credit, the customers building these apps or actually getting a lot smarter about what they're data is and where they're data is. >> So they expect this feature? >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I wouldn't call it table stakes cause we're the only kids on the block that can do it. But this is in direct response to our customers that are building these new apps. I wanna get into some of the environmental and customer drivers in a second. I wanna nail the last segment down. Cause I wanna unpack the whole why is this trend happening? What's the gestation period? What's the main enabler for you? But okay, final point on the significant announcements. My favorite topic enterprise-grade security. What the hell does that mean? First of all, from your standpoint the industry's trying to solve the same thing. Enterprise-grade security, what are you guys providing in this? >> Number one, it's basically security protocol. So, TLS and SSL. This is weed stuff. TLS, SSL, so secure protocol support. It's integration with LDAP. So, if organizations are running, primarily if they're running on-prem and they're running in an LDAP environment, we're support there. And then we've got Kerberos support for Kerberos authentication. So, it's all about just checking the boxes around the different security >> So, this is like in between >> and transport protocol. >> the toes, the details around compliance, identity management. >> Peter: Bingo. >> I mean we just had Centrify's CyberConnect conference, and you're seeing a lot of focus on identity. >> Absolutely. And the reason that that's sort of from a market standpoint the reason that these are very important now is because the applications that we're supporting these are not science experiments. These are eCommerce applications. These are core business applications that mainstream enterprises are running, and they need to be protected and they're bringing the true, classic enterprise security, authentication, authorization requirements to the table. >> Are you guys aligning with those features? Or is there anything significant in that section? >> From an enterprise security standpoint? It's primarily about we provide the support, so we integrate with all of those environments and we can check the boxes. Oh, absolutely TLS. Absolutely, we've got that box checked because-- >> So, you're not competing with other cybersecurity? >> No, this is purely we need to do this. This is part of our enterprise-- >> This is where you partner. >> Peter: Well, no. For these things it's literally just us providing the protocol support. So, LDAP's a good example. We support LDAP. So, we show up and if somebody's using my data management-- >> But you look at the other security solutions as a way to integrate with? >> Yeah. >> Not so much-- >> Absolutely, no. This has nothing to do with the competition. It's just supporting ... I mean Google has their own protocol, you know, security protocols, so we support those. So, does Amazon. >> I really don't want to go into the customer benefits. We'll let the folks go to the Datos website, d-a-t-o-s dot i-o is the website, if you wanna check out all their customer references. I don't wanna kind of drill on that. I kind of wanna really end this segment on the real core issue for me is reading the tea leaves. You guys are different. You're now kind of seeing some traction and some growth. You're a new kind of animal in the zoo, if you will. (Peter laughs) You've got a relevant product. Why is it happening now? And I'm trying to get to understanding Cloud Oss is enabling a lot of stuff. You guys are an effect of that, a data point of what the cloud is enabled as a venture. Everything that you're doing, the value you create is the function of the cloud. >> Yes. >> And how data is moving. Where's this coming from? Is it just recently? Is it a gestation period of a few years? Where did this come from? You mentioned some comparisons like Oracle. >> So, I'll answer that in sort of, we like to use history as our guide. So, I'll answer that both in macro terms, and then I'll answer it in micro terms. From a macro term standpoint, this is being driven by the proliferation of new data sources. It's the easiest way to look at it. So, if you let history be your guide. There was about a seven to eight year proliferation or gap between proliferation of Oracle as the primary traditional relational database data source and the advent of Veritas who really defined themselves as the defacto standard for traditional on-prem data center relational data management. You look at that same model, you'll look at the proliferation of VMware. In the late 90s, about a seven to eight year gestation with the rapid adoption of Veeam. You know the early days a lot of folks laughed at Veeam, like, "Who's gonna backup VMs? People aren't gonna use VMs in the enterprise. Now, you looked at Veeam, great company. They've done some really tremendous things carving out much more than a niche providing backup and recovery and availability in a VM-based environment. The exact same thing is happening now. If you go back six to seven years from now, you had the early adoption of the MongoDBs, the Cassandras, the Couches. More recently you've got a much faster acceleration around the DynamoDBs and the cloud databases. We're riding that same wave to support that. >> This is a side effect of the enabling of the growth of cloud. >> Yes. >> So, similar to what you did in VMware with VMs and database for Oracle you guys are taking it to the next level. >> These new data sources are completely driven by the fact that the cloud is enabling this completely distributed, far more agile, far more dynamic, far less expensive application deployment model, and a new way of providing data management is required. That's what we do. >> Yeah, I mean it's a function of maturity, one. As Jeff Rickard, General Manager of theCube, always says, when the industry moves to it's next point of failure, in this case failure is problem and you solve. So, the headaches that come from the awesomeness of the growth. >> Absolutely. And to answer that micro-wise briefly. So, that was the macro. The micro is the proliferation of, the movement from monolithic apps to microservices-based app, it's happening. And the cloud is what's enabling them. The move from traditional on-prem to hybrid cloud is absolutely happening. That's by definition the cloud. The third piece which is cloud-centric is the world's moving from a scale up world to an elastic-compute, elastic storage model. We call that the modern IT stack. Traditional backup and recovery, traditional data management doesn't work in the new modern IT stack. That's the market we're planning. That's the market we're disrupting is all that traditional stuff moving to the modern IT stack. >> Okay, Datos IO announcing a 2.5 release of RecoverX, their flagship product, their start up growing out of Los Gatos. Peter Smails here, the CMO. Where ya gonna be next? What's going on-- I know we're gonna see you re:Invent in a week in a half. >> Absolutely. So, we've got two stops. Well, actually the next stop on the tour is re:Invent. So, absolutely looking forward to being back on theCUBE at re:Invent. >> And the company feels good about those things are good. You've got good money in the bank. You're growing. >> We feel fantastic. It's fascinating to watch as things develop. The conversations we have now versus even six months ago. It's sort of the tipping point of people get it. You sort of explain, "Oh, yeah it's data management from modern applications. Are you deploying modern applications?" Absolutely. >> Share one example to end this segment on what you hear over and over again from customers that illuminates what you guys are about as a company, the DNA, the value preposition, and their impact on results and value for customers. >> So, I'll use a case study as an example. You know, we're the world's largest home improvement retailers. Old way, was they ran their multi-billion dollar eCommerce infrastructure. Running on IBM Db2 database. Running in their on-prem data center. They've moved their world. They're now running, they've re-architected their application. It's now completely microservices-based running on Cassandra, deployed 100% in Google cloud platform. And they did that because they wanted to be more agile. They wanted to be more flexible. It's a far more cost effective deployment model. They are all in on the cloud. And they needed a next generation backup and recovery data protection, data management solution which is exactly what we do. So, that's the value. Backup's not a new problem. People need to protect data and they need to be able to take better advantage of the data. >> All right, so here's the final, final question. I'm a customer watching this video. Bottom line maybe, I'm kind of hearing all this stuff. When do I call you? What are the signals? What are the little smoke signals I see in my organization burning? When do I need to call you guys, Datos? >> You should call Datos IO anytime, if you're doing anything with development of modern applications, number one. If you're doing anything with hybrid cloud you should call us. Because you're gonna need to reevaluate your overall data management strategy it's that simple. >> All right, Peter Smails, the CMO of Datos, one of the hot companies here in Silicon Valley, out of Los Gatos, California. Of course, we're in Palo Alto at theCube Studios. I'm John Furrier. This is theCUBE conversation. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

(motivating electronic music) >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the co-host and co-founder of Silicon Angle Media. We're here for a CUBE Conversation in our studios in Palo Alto, California. Here with two great guests inside the industry, to help illuminate the cloud computing conversation, really around what's coming up with Amazon re:Invent. But more importantly, the major advances happening in the digital transformation around IT and around developers and around cloud, and how that's impacting business. Our guests are Chris Comings, who's with the Chasm Group, consult and they help people, and former industry executive at NetApp, and (mumbles) the storage company. Peter Smails, the CMO of Datos.io data, and then he's the CMO there. Now, new progressive solutions. So guys, great solution. And Peter, I know you got news. We're gonna do another segment on your big news coming out, so we're gonna hold that off. >> Cool. >> The game has changed, right? >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> And we talked, with Chris and I had a one on one about this. But the industry conversation, there's people that are in the know, and people who are trying to figure out what's happening and how it impacts their business. CIO, CEOs, CDOs, chief data officers, chief security officers. There's a lot of things on the plate of businesses. >> Right. >> Big time. >> Right. >> So let's unpack this, and let's illuminate what it means. So cloud computing, Peter, what's your take on this, because Datos just takes a unique approach? I love your solution. A lot of people are liking this solution, but it's nuanced, because it's cloud-- >> Yeah. >> That's driving you. >> Yeah. >> What's the big driver? >> So the big driver, you said at the top of the discussion, the big driver is digital transformation. Digital transformation. Organizations are trying to be more data-driven. Okay, this is completely throwing, throwing traditional IT amok, because we're not living in the traditional world anymore of all my data sits within a single data center, I run my traditional monolithic applications. That's changed. The world is no longer running in a traditional four wall data center, and the world's moved away from the traditional view of scale-up architectures to elastic compute, shared nothing, elastic storage environment. So what's happening is, you've got the challenge of trying to essentially support traditional transformation initiatives, and it's just throwing all the underlying infrastructure foundations that an entire generation of IT professionals has known (laughs) into disarray. So everything's a little bit caddywhompus right now. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative), Chris? >> Well, and like you said, those people all have gone from being implementers to, they're moving to being developers. >> Right. >> And it completely changes their, it has to be a big change in their mindset. And it changes the management folks, the CIOs, the CDOs, the people that you interact with on a daily basis, right? >> Absolutely. >> Because these people are all trying to kind of come up to the next generation and get there. >> So you talked about, we got re:Invent coming up in a couple of weeks and, I think reinvent's a perfect term for this entire conversation, because everybody is reinventing themselves. The customer's reinventing themselves, the IT organizations are reinventing themselves, the individual roles within organizations are changing, and the whole evolution of dev ops versus traditional roles, so it is really-- >> And the vendors are all trying to reinvent themselves, too. >> Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. >> Well there's a lot of noise, so the customer's being bombarded with pitches. And if I here one more digital transformation pitch, without substance, I still don't understand. So in the spirit of trying to understand, first of all, I believe in digital transformation, but you can't just say the word, you gotta to prove it. But there's hard to prove a new approach or they've never seen it before. It's kind of like Steve Jobs would say, "If you want a Blackberry, that's a phone, "but the iPhone's not what you've seen before." But everyone loved it, changed the industry. That dynamic's happening in the cloud where for instance, your solution, some might not have seen before, but it's highly relevant to the user behavior expectations of the new environment. Okay, so this is the issue. What is the new environment specifically around digital transformation? Because I have an investment in storage. If I'm a customer, I bought a zillion drives from NetApp and EMC. I got data domain backup and, I got a perimeter, I have all this stuff, and now I've got this cloud thing bursting, and I got some analytics running there, and then I got the hot shot young developers banging out apps, and they want to put it in the cloud and... and security, I mean, what's going on? >> You wanna take that one first? And then I'll jump in. >> Can't I just buy more storage? >> Yeah. (Men laugh) Hey, just, no John, you don't just buy more storage, you upgrade from spinning to flash. I mean, that's really, >> There you go. >> That's really, really cutting edge right there. No I think what a lot of you see what they're doing is basically saying listen, for all this secondary, tertiary, quaternary, I mean, I didn't even know what that word was. But your second, your third, your fourth cuts of that data, move that all to the cloud, get that out of my environment. I'm not gonna be submersed in dealing with all of that anymore. Then maybe I can clear out some of my headaches, so I can actually focus on that primary cut, and what do I do about that primary cut? And that's where these completely new approaches come into play, and I, Peter I don't know if you call that hybrid, or multi-aire or what? But it is basically just trying to get some of that noise out of their system, so they can focus on the thing that's most valuable. >> So the way I would make that tangible John, is sort of, to us it all rolls down to the notion of the modern IT stack, okay? So essentially, the way you respond to digital transformation which, is all about being more agile, and some of the buzzwords you hear, but they're trying to be more, customers are trying to be, vendors are trying to be, or excuse me, customers or organizations are trying to be more customer-centric. They're trying to be more business driven, more data driven, okay great. If that's their initiative-- >> That's a mission. That's a mission. >> That's a mission. >> Yep. >> What that means for IT specifically is a fundamental rearchitecture of the underlying stack, okay, along a couple vectors, which is, organizations are building these new applications. They're fundamentally rearchitecting applications. What used to be a monolithic-oriented, traditional, relational, on-prem database is now running in a microservices, highly distributed configuration. That's vector number one, implication. Implication number two is we're absolutely in the mainstream of hybrid cloud, okay? You may be running all your apps on-prem, but you're still connected in some way to the cloud, for archiving, for BI, for TASDAV, whatever the case may be. And number three is the world just moved completely to an elastic, compute, shared nothing world. So we call that the modern IT stack. So the modern IT stack, modern infrastructure today-- >> Share nothing, you said? >> Shared nothing, the cloud is-- >> Oh, shared nothing. >> Yeah, shared nothing, shared nothing storage, shared nothing compute, that's that's, those are the foundations of a cloud based architecture. >> Is that called serverless? >> You could call it serverless as well. >> Okay. >> But, if you look at the modern IT stack, so to your point, the modern IT stack, modern infrastructure today is EC2. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> Modern storage is S3. It could be object prem, object storage sitting on-prem. You know, modern applications are IOT. Modern, or our customer 360, IOT. Modern databases are dynamo DB. It's MongoDB, it's the number two-- >> Right. >> database in the cloud. So to answer your question very specifically, to make it tangible, that's to us the fundamental indication is, that new modern IT stack, throws storage into disarray, it throws data management into disarray-- >> It's an operational disruption. >> It's an operational disruption. >> All right, so let's backup for a second, because I think you nailed the thread I was trying to connect on. So let's take MongoDB, your reference to that being, where'd that come from? We all know why, the LAMP stack, it was one of the drivers. But developers drove that. >> That's right. >> So it wasn't the IT department recommending Mango. >> Right (laughs). >> so the developers were driving that because of ease of use. Now there's some scalability with Mango, we all know about, but what that means is, no one gives a crap if it can scale, because you already hit your product market fit. Then you could rearchitect, so you're seeing this use case of developers driving some of the behavior. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> Hence containers, docker containers, and the role of Kubernetes. >> Kubernetes, yep. >> So if that's the case, how does an enterprise customer deal with that vector? Because now the developers are dictating the stacks. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> Well, I-- >> Is it a free-for-all right now? I mean, this is... >> I think both of those guys are, think of it as they used to be warring factions, dev and ops, and the fact that we say the word dev ops right now is kind of a, it's kind of an oxymoron, right? Because they don't actually know each other and actually don't naturally talk to one another, and they go, "That's the other guy who's holding me back." >> Yeah, it's the old-- >> They look at, yeah, yeah. >> Goes over the fence. >> And so now, you've got folks that are really trying to, trying to bring it together a little bit more on that front and I think that, we're starting to see some technologies where people can say, "Not only can I use that "to accelerate my developments," so meets the dev criteria, but also the ops people say, "You know what, that stuff's not so bad. "I could actually work with that." >> Right, and then there's IT going, "Uh-oh," because they're basically sitting there on the catcher's side, so to your point it's, the dev ops, it is very much of an application-led environment. The tip of the spear for the new IT stack is absolutely application-led. And IT is challenged with essentially aligning to that, collaborating with that, and keeping up with that pace of change. >> And John, on this point, I think this is where, back to re:Invent, and really the role of AWS. This all started because of that. When a developer can just say, "I don't even know who those IT people are over there, "But I can spin up my S3 instance, "and I can start working against it." They start moving down the path, they show it to somebody, someone says, "Wow, that's great stuff, I want that." >> John: Yeah, right. >> Guess what? We need to make sure that that's enterprise class and scalable and then that's where that whole thing starts, and then it becomes that pull-ya-apart, "Oh God, what did these developer people do? "I'm gonna inherit this? "What the heck am I gonna do with it?" Now it's, we've gotta move that to be more symbiotic up front. >> I remember talking to both Pat Gelsinger and Andy Jassy years ago, I think maybe five years ago, and I asked the question, "What enables developers?" What is enabling point? Does infrastructure dictate developer behavior? Or do developers dictate infrastructure behavior? This was years ago, when the dev ops was an early-on movement. Clearly the vote is there. Developers are driving infrastructure. Hence the dev ops infrastructure, >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> as code model, that's proven. Jassy was interesting because he looked at it that way and said, "Yeah, we saw the same thing," and they've never wavered, Amazon's stayed on the course, and they've just been running like a machine, like a, just pounding it out. I asked Pat Gelsinger, he once positioned the AWS as the developer cloud. Kinda in, I wouldn't say depositioning them, but he was basically pointing out, they have a developer cloud. Now Amazon's the enterprise cloud. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> Because they've developers are now a big driver of that, and the scale with data is actually turning out to be a better security environment. >> Right. >> For cyber. >> Right, it might just-- >> So it's cloud's winning. >> Cloud is winning and just sort of just take that one step further. It's always ultimately, the winner's going to, it's Darwinism, it's like the winner's gonna be the one with the richest ecosystem. And AWS is becoming that enterprise eco. And you could argue, I mean, GCP's fighting to be in there, Oracle's not going to go quietly into that dark night. You've got multiple public cloud vendors. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> But the reality is that he who has the biggest, he or she who has the biggest ecosystem is gonna win, and that's right now is AWS driving that bus. >> All right, so I need to see those glasses for a second, and then want to go into another line of question here. (men laugh) >> You may use those. >> Oh who's, oh you put them on, all right good, as long as he's wearing them. >> He that wear-- >> You know, on that front too, on that front too, I would think we started back where VM was the big new thing, and here we go with VM's, and then all of a sudden we're coming up and we're saying, "Yeah, now there's containers." And so now we're gonna see this move to, we want to micro-package these services, and be able to aggregate them. Well you know the average IT shop that I would be talking to out there is just still trying to figure out, how do they put together their on-prem and their AWS instance? So this notion of hybrid is where most of these large enterprises are. We see a lot of terminology out there and a lot of vendors talking about multi-cloud. But multi-cloud is really just taking an option on the future and saying, "I'm not locked into you, AWS, "even though I am locked into you 100% right now. "I don't want to be forever in the future." >> It's a value statement that they're gesturing. >> That's right. >> Good segue. >> Chris: But it's not a practical implementation piece. >> I got my nerd glasses on so-- >> Peter: Strap in for something, here we go. I got my nerd glasses, so next question, we'll go a little nerdy, because this is important one. I put out at my crowd chat for Amazon, so to crowdchat.net/awsreinvent it's open, I have a lot of questions on there. Feel free to weigh in, it's an influencer-only chat, so no consumers, so I asked the question, and this is to the value statement, because multi-cloud is basically telegraphing lock-in. We don't want lock-in. >> Right. >> But we want love choice. If you have good choice and good value, we'll go there so it's a value equation. So the question I said is, where do you, this is a question I put on crowd-chat, I'll ask you guys. Where do you see the value that cloud creates for customers in the next 24 months? #cloud So the first response was from Subbu Allamaraju, who's the CIO at Expedia. He writes, "Agility from the service "ecosystem and rapid second-order architecture "architectural changes thereby clearing technical debt." And the second one from Grant Chase, "Born on the cloud apps already here. "Next wave migrating of existing apps." And then Maddoux Tsukahara said, "Legacy SASS applications will be disrupted "by cloud microservices, serverless, "and AI and machine learning." So we start to see the pattern. Your thoughts? Value creation, in the cloud, is gonna be what? >> So I think they're hitting on the right trends. I would go back to the first one which is "How do I get this on-prem stuff "that's driving me crazy, consuming all of my resources "in terms of maintenance and upgrades? "And then optimizing my environment for that." Which ones of those are core? And which ones of those are really kind of ancillary? I've gotta have them, but I really don't want them. If I didn't have to use them, I'd get rid of them. Take all, just do that homework. Separate the two cleanly. Move ancillary to the cloud, and move on. >> Peter: Yeah, yeah. >> So service ecosystem he nailed, I love, by the way, I agree with you, that was my favorite answer. And rapid second-order architecture changes. This speaks to what datos.io is doing. Because you guys, what you're in, the tornado that you're in, kind of just a play on the Chasm group here. You guys have a solution that has got visibility into some of the real dynamics of the environmental environment. >> Check. >> People, tech, stack, et cetera. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So what are some of the things that you're seeing that point to these second or level architectural changes? >> Well you mentioned, a couple different things, which is, you mentioned the notion of technical debt, which is indirectly what you were just talking about, the ability to get rid of my technical debt. It's an easy way, it eliminates my barrier to answering to creating net new applications. So without having to sort of, I avoid the innovator's dilemma if you will, because I can build these net new applications, which are the things I have to to drive my digital transformation, et cetera. I can do that in a very cost-effective and agile way. Meanwhile, sort of ignoring the old world. Then what I'll do is I'll go back, and I'll worry about the old stuff, and I'll start migrating some of that old stuff to the cloud. So in the context of, yeah, so what we see from a Datos IO perspective, in the context of data management, is that one, applications drive the stack, like you said earlier, it's absolutely, the application's at the tip of the spear, driving the stack. Organizations are building net new applications that are cloud native, okay? And they're built on the new modern IT stack, and at the same time, they're also taking their legacy application, so I like that second answer as well which is, modern cloud applications are here. The interesting thing is, you say modern cloud apps, modern cloud apps don't have to run in the cloud. >> That's right. >> We've got customers that are running their next gen app-- >> It's an operating model. >> It's an operating model. We've got customers running 100% on-prem. Their econ number stuff runs on-prem, then you have people that run in the cloud. So it's a mindset, it's an operating model. So you've got folks absolutely deploying these cloud-native apps. >> Well, it's an architectural model too, it's how they are deploying and servicing apps. >> And ultimately, it comes down to the architectural model. That's what shifted, and that world is very infrastructure. The other thing I would add to the cloud thing is if you do it right, the cloud actually can give you architectural independence and cloud independence, but you can't be focused on the infrastructure level. You've gotta focus at the application level, because then you can be agnostic, until they're online. >> So Peter you, you guys are disrupting a very large space, backup and recovery in the cloud which you guys are doing. >> Check. >> And the application database layer is a very progressive solution. So I love your approach, but you're talking about disrupting the data domains of the world. We're talking about big whales. >> Yeah. >> Big incumbents that are built around four walls in the data center. >> Check. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative), yep. >> What are you seeing? What's the makeup? What's the personnel of the customers look like? If dev ops is happening, which we agree it is, and the the evidence is there clearly, they're not 50 year old backup and recovery guys. They're young guns, they're probably not thinking about waking up every day with their coffee, say, "Hmm, what am I gonna do with backup today?" >> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> They're waking up saying, "Hey, I'm gonna drive some more machine learning "and AI in my apps." >> Yep. >> "And I'm gonna provide workflow movement to--" >> And you said breakfast was some, you said that. >> Adopt this microservice. >> I had the craziest dream last night. It was microservices, what? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, so I can answer that two ways. There's the technology side of it. Fun little tidbit, average age of the traditional backup and recovery software architecture, about 20 years. >> Hmm. >> Architected well before the mainstream advent of the cloud or certainly modern applications. >> Hold on, the person's 20 years old? Or it's 20 years of architecture? >> No, the architecture of the software. >> Okay. >> The solutions, or come up, the point is they've been around for awhile. >> It's old. It's old. >> It's old, fair enough. >> Yeah, and 20 years-- >> So on the technology side, that's a dilemma. On the persona side, you're absolutely right as well. These are, it's the application folks that are driving the conversation, that our applications dictate the IT stack. They're building these new architectures, which have all these implications on the infrastructure. >> All right, so I'm gonna play devil's advocate, just because I want to connect the dots. And again, illuminate what I think the problem is that you have. One is, okay I'm a CIO. Hey, he's my storage guy. Who the hell are you, young gun? Complaining about your backup and recovery. He recommends all flash arrays in the data center provisioned in a VSAN environment, whatever that's going on. Who are you? You're just nothing to me. You don't make that decision. >> I'm the guy that can give you all the visibility to your data to make you smarter and more agile as a company. I can save you money. I can make this company more market-- >> So what do I need to do differently? If I'm the CIO, I don't want to make these, or these architectural calls based upon old dogma or old reporting lines. This is an example. I go to him, he's my storage guy. Who are you? I already built you the dev ops environment. He runs storage and so, you're impacted as a developer. So how do you guys talk to that guy? What does the CXO have to do differently to adapt to the new environment? >> I'll take that and then you can-- >> Please. >> You know, jump in. So I think what you see is, you see the proliferation of new personas. Like you see chief transformation officers, you see chief digital officers. You see system architects and DBAs getting a more prominent role in the conversation. So the successful CIOs and technology officers are the ones that are essentially gonna get the cowboys and the Indians to collaborate more closely, because they have to, because the folks that were over in the corner that used to get laughed at, building these, oh mangos and these new applications and such, they're the ones holding the keys to the future. So the successful technologists are gonna be the ones that marry those personas from the application side of the house with the traditional storage, infrastructure folks as well. You successfully do that, then you can be more, then you can move more quickly forward. >> Yeah, that's right. >> What do you think? >> Well I think some of it's gonna come back down to economics, too. And I agree with that move which is, I talked to over a hundred CIOs and their staff in the last year. I had one conversation where the person said, "You know what? "The chief complaint about me as CIO "is I'm not spending enough money." And I thought to myself, "Sounds like a company that I should put some bucks into, "because they must be doing really, really well." Everybody else is looking at it saying, "You know what? "I'm under pressure to adopt the cloud, "because there's a belief out there "that the cloud is gonna be so much less expensive "than what they've done in the past." And then I think they find that it's not, that it's not just the one size fits all answer to that. >> Right. >> And so as a consequence, you're gonna have people say, Listen, this money printing operation, or this funnel out the door to, whether it's EMC or NetApp 4, or whatever it may be, whatever storage vendor for backup architecture, they've got to stop that funnel. Because they've got to take what they were spending there and move it to the things that are going to make money for them, not just gonna hold on to it, and de-risk their enterprise. >> I'm here with two industry leaders, Chris Comings and Peter Smails, talking about the impact of infrastructure technologies, and app development in the cloud for businesses. It's a great conversation, and our final point, I wanna just get to, I know we're running on some time here but we wanna go a little further. I think this is awesome. That's for taking the time to share it out. >> It's great. >> One of my other questions I put on my crowd chat was, a true or false and comment question. Here's the statement: Serverless computing will become mainstream, will come to mainstream private cloud, true or false, comment. Subbu said, "False, adoption and success "of serverless patterns depend almost entirely "on the strength of the ecosystem "that the data center lacks." Interesting comment. I was kinda leaning, I go, "I was leaning towards true." But I don't have enough insight on this, because I'm waffling between true or false. I love serverless, I love the idea of, notion of resources that are just programmable. But what is the state of serverless? I mean, is he right? Is that that there's not enough ecosystem in the data center areas or... >> You wanna go first? >> Well, I'd just say that I would, I would just call out two things on that front. One is, I think you need a lot more germination of microservices that are out there in order to be able to put that all together. That's one aspect. We're seeing that growth come rapidly. The other thing is, now your security is beholden to the lowest common denominator. The security of that individual microservice. So I think you're gonna have some fits and starts here as we move down that path because, boy oh boy, the last thing I wanna do is get all modern but at the same time, put myself at a greater amount of risk. >> I thought the comment at the end was, I think it's true. I thought it was interesting what he said at the end. He said, "The ecosystem that the data center lacks." I would contend that potentially, the ecosystem that the cloud has would support that. >> Yeah. >> Because the cloud, by definition is, it's a shared-nothing world. >> Right. >> You know? >> So, he also comments, someone said, Lambda, "My Expedia is that Lambda's growth "is almost entirely due to the power "of the ecosystem of services, "which is one of the key points," and he points to his blog post. Stu Miniman, our Wikibon analyst weighed in, because Stu's on this big time. "Service will definitely be used for edge applications. "Currently don't see use case for general data center usage." >> Mm-hmm (affirmative). >> So edge of the network. Again, good point? This edge of the network thing helps you, because most people are using cloud for edge. >> Peter: Right. >> So this IOT, which is, an iterative things, is an edge of the network. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Whether it's devices, sensors, industrial equipment, or people's devices on their bodies. >> Yeah. >> It's a huge data source. >> Absolutely. >> Cloud's rolling that up. Or a cloud-like infrastructure. >> Well but it's not necessarily rolling it up. It's just connecting all the dots as to where you can put storage and you can put compute where the data is. Or you can move the data to where the storage and the compute is. So it's not, I mean, yes there's core and edge, that's absolutely true, but the notion of rollup isn't necessarily true. It's not necessarily the cloud enables me to do all this colossal aggregation. It's I basically distribute my compute, I distribute my storage. >> Well, when I say rollup, I'm assuming there's some sort of architectural thing. >> Okay, fair. >> But this fits into your wheelhouse, I think. But I just connecting the dots. That's why it's a question for you is, it would make sense for a solution like DATOS to be there because, That's a application so you-- >> Absolutely. >> You back up IOT? >> Oh absolutely. We backup IOT, but we basically backup any modern cloud application. And by definition, what does that mean? >> So IOT's and app for you. >> IOT, absolutely IOT's-- >> Not necessarily a-- >> So the technically where we plug in is, we plugin at the database level. And the databases basically, are the underlying infrastructure that support the applications. So in the case of IOT, those are typically very highly distributed across GIOS, absolutely we protect them. >> So we were just talking earlier about the words flexibility, manageability, agility. That's kind of vanilla words that everyone uses these days. But in essence, you're actually really doing it. Right, so. >> Thanks for that setup. Yes, we actually do all those buzz words. >> So Chris recommends, I recommend that you call it, hyper flexibility. >> Yeah. >> Or microflexibility. >> Or ultra. >> Or ultra flexibility. >> Or go mega. Just go mega right now. Or uber and steal a little of that, although that's kind of out of favor right now. >> Not, uber is-- >> Uber we wanna let that one kind of fly by. >> But remember we also talked before, we thought we were spot on with our product being branded RecoverX. We thought we were really in the spot with the whole, you know. >> Your name is awesome. RecoverX is a great brand. >> So we're gonna stick with that for now before we-- >> Good branding, RecoverX, Data IOS. Chris, thanks for coming on. Final comment, any words on the storage industry as it evolved? You mentioned earlier, just call it flash. Certainly, all flash arrays are doing well. Pure Storage went public. Flash is a standard. >> Yeah. >> It has benefits. Where does the flash storage go with all this cloud value coming over the top? >> Well I think, you know, there's gonna be a couple. I have one comment on that which is, we see what flash is doing at the array level, and now we're gonna see what NVME does at the cash layer, for allowing this access to information. You think about, I want to run a singular query, but some of that data is here, there, everywhere, but I've gotta have a level of performance that allows me to actually run it, and get an answer from it. And so that's where that comes into play. I think we're gonna see a whole host of folks flooding into that space, to try and improve performance, but not only improve performance, but enable that whole distribution model. >> Yeah, and I would just pick up on more persona-centric thing which is, the message to the traditional IT shops is it is all about collaboration. The folks over in the corner, the application folks, it is absolutely all about getting more closely aligned, because cloud is here. >> Yeah. >> Multicloud, hybrid cloud, call it whatever you want, is here. The traditional IT stack is absolutely being disrupted, and it's all about embracing this application-centric, data-driven view of the world. That's the future, traditional IT's got to align with that, and collaborate and drive that whole thing forward. >> That's a great, I agree 100% what you guys just said, great comment. I would just say Wikibon calls it unigrid, which is, I'll rename it hypergrid, meaning it's just one system, to your point. Private, public, it's all cloud-like. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, it doesn't matter where it goes. Okay guys, thanks for the thought leadership. Peter Smails and Chris Cummings here, breaking down the industry landscape on storage infrastructure, application developers, in context the cloud. This is theCUBE conversation. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (motivating electronic music)

(uplifting music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE Conversations here at the Palo Alto Studios for theCUBE. I'm John Furrier the co-host of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE. We're here for Thought Leader Thursday, and my guest here to talk about the cloud, earnings in the industry, and also all the mega trends happening is Tarun Thakur, who is the co-founder and CEO of Datos.IO, hot start up out of Los Gatos, California. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you, John, thank you, good to be back. >> We love having entrepreneurs come in because you guys are on the cutting edge, you're sweating bullets, you're stressing out, you're building the company. You guys are still in a growth mode, which is great, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> But you're also playing in the cloud game. You're in the ecosystem. We're seeing massive visibility now into the numbers. You see the cloud earnings just came out. Amazon continues to crush it. Microsoft, they're bundling 365 and they're juicing the numbers up but we all know what's going on there, but still, they're looking good. >> Correct. >> And then Google's a dark horse with really that developer platform looking good. So the big three are popping. But, you know, Facebook just announced a $10 billion quarter. They're a cloud too, not to be reckoned with, but kind of not in the pure infrastructures of service. So clearly the market has shown that there is some stability. We're in the second, third inning maybe of this cloud game. What's your take on the marketplace? >> No, I think this is an excellent topic. Thank you, John, for again having us back. Always great to be here. So, you know, the way I think about what's happening really in the cloud is really from three dimensions. Number one, you know, you rightly said $20 billion is what Amazon is on a run rate business of. We personally believe it's still the first innings. It's not the second or the third. You know, they've seen a massive adoption as its called the product market for developilabilty, where the developers, where the application developers, where the SMBs of the world, but the enterprises are just starting to scratch the surface of the cloud. We believe the cloud is in the first innings. The real growth. >> Enterprise cloud. >> Enterprise cloud is just beginning. Just beginning, right. I was, you know, I'll give you quickly an example. I was out in Denver visiting a customer, which is the world's largest, one of the world's largest, shipping companies. They are moving as fast as possible to the cloud, but this is their first foray. But their first foray is not five terabytes or 50 terabytes. Their first foray is 50 petabytes of data. >> So they're moving big time. >> Oh, they're moving big time. >> This is not a toe in the water. >> No, they took two years to evaluate it, and then they go big. >> Right, so talk about the trends here because let's tease through the numbers. I looked at all the earnings, and again, Microsoft is doing well, but remember, they're bundling Office 365, which kind of puts Google unnoticed because Google's got a huge presence that they could roll in. So there's a lot of number games going on that the analysts are kind of pointing out, and we're pointing out, but Amazon has just been crushing it on overall performance. >> Right. >> I mean look at the compute that's going on, the scale, they've got thousands of enterprise customers, and still there's a lot more growth there because the on-prem, true private cloud, is still growing. >> That's correct. >> So what is the state of the enterprise now, and who is using the public cloud more, and who's using it less, and why are they doing that? Is it a makeup, is it a DNA culture? Is it just evolution? >> No, it's just evolution, John. I think the enterprises are finally latching on to this, I think they are, but they're latching on it in a big way. Right, and so that's the second point that I sort of wanted to highlight that while you call Google the Trojan horse, and Amazon being the lead, and then Microsoft somewhere in the middle, let's not forget about Oracle cloud. Larry Ellison is a formidable competitive spirit. He's not going to give up. He has not given up so far. They are going to build an Oracle cloud. There will be a-- >> Well they have an Oracle cloud. >> They have an Oracle cloud. But, you know, having versus really truly-- >> It's so funny, Larry Ellison called Salesforce a fake cloud, but a lot of people are calling Oracle a fake cloud. >> A fake cloud. >> But Oracle on Oracle, we've entered Dave Donatelli, Larry is the only one that hasn't come on theCUBE. Oracle cloud works great with Oracle. >> Correct. >> They're trying to put the message out there that Oracle is working well with cloud native. They're in the Cloud Native Foundation now. >> Sure, sure. >> CNCF, so you stayed in Oracle amidst Avery and folks over there doing a great job, so, but they're not getting the word out. Oracle's not getting the job done because no one sees Oracle as a cool cloud native company. >> No, and they're not. And I think that's a very valid point. But what I'm saying is that there will be room There is oxygen in this market to get the fourth and the fifth cloud provider. There will be specialized clouds. And there will be places for that. Because Amazon is not an answer for all. It is definitely an answer for majority of your workloads, but the HPC, the high performance computing workloads, the GPU workloads, the Oracle. You know, you look at the number one database in the cloud that Amazon claims openly is MySQL. It's not Oracle. An Amazon database business, if they're making 20 billion in total AWS, I will tell you about 40% or 50% of their business is database. And that's not Oracle. So think of five to $10 billion of revenue and money that Amazon is making is not Oracle. >> What's that mean? Does that mean Oracle's losing money or. That's leakage on Oracle's model? Is that Oracle still has an opportunity? Cause they still control a lot of databases. >> Thank you and, thus, thank you, thank you for asking that. It's not that Oracle is losing money, it's the next generation applications, it's the cloud enabled applications. >> So it's growth, it's pure growth. >> It's the new oxygen, it's the new wealth creation. >> So it's like the classic example when the internet started. Web traffic increased because more people were using the internet. >> Correct. >> So what you're saying is that cloud has created a more database market. Amazon's getting a big chuck of it there, but Oracle still has the database market. >> For example if you look-- >> And SAP too. >> And look at the third reason of these clouds, if you look at AIML, right, these applications, the Alexa, the Siri-like applications, and the applications that will be built on top of this, will be built in the cloud. You're not going to start building Alexa AI application on prem infrastructure. That is not happening. And that's the third part of this whole cloud. We say it's $20 billion and we have barely scratched the surface on AI, ML, and blockchain. And all those applications that will be built, will be built on cloud elastic infrastructure. >> Alright, so what's your take? I mean, right now Amazon's winning the cloud game, Oracle, I wouldn't call them number four, but they're trying to juice the numbers up as well, but they clearly have an installed base, and they're not going anywhere. >> Tarun: Captive audience. >> SAP is going multi-cloud, so you're seeing SAP starting to put their, looking at saying, hey, we want our customers to run Oracle SAP on any cloud, so they're clearly thinking multi-cloud. Who else is out there? Alibaba cloud is now coming to the US in San Mateo, so they're number seven cloud but four worldwide, right? >> Tarun: Correct. >> So, pure worldwide numbers, Alibaba's four. >> Yes, so I'll start with Ali cloud. You know, you talk about Alibaba, their cloud is called Ali cloud, and fortunately, as you're building a company, as you talked about earlier on in our offline conversation, you get to meet all the way from governed DoD's and DIA's of the world too. We worked with Ali cloud executive team just a few weeks ago and they were out here in the bay area. Didi is the de facto car hailing company, it's not Uber, in China. We believe Ali cloud will be that in China. There will be a fifth cloud, there will be a sixth cloud. To my point, there will be specialized clouds. Amazon's not going to win this entire pie. And there will be clouds outside of US markets. >> Well I had a chance to tell Karen Lu and Dr. Min Wen Li as well as Dr. Wong at Alibaba in China a few weeks ago, and if you look at what they're doing in China, it's not just cloud. They've got eCommerce, they've got the city brain project. They're looking at holistically around data. Data's fundamental to their vision. I think that's consistent with what we're seeing in the US. A little bit more broader scope because IT here is a little bit more, has more legacy. China's got much more focus and got some government controls in there to get some latitude to do the right things. But the consumers are moving faster in China. If you look at the mobile growth. >> Absolutely. >> John: Huge indicator. >> Look at the Didi's growth. Didi's growth is more faster than Uber's growth. Right, and they've built a massive, massive company out there. >> IoT is pretty hot in China, you're starting to see that. I mean, this is a re-imagining of cloud, so you guys are in the middle of it with back on the road recovery. So as a CEO you're in the body swerving, car's that are flying by you, you're trying not to get run over. You've got a good market opportunity with the cloud because GDPR's coming right around the corner. >> Yes, yes, absolutely. >> So what's your strategy? Are you, I mean, I'm paraphrasing, not dodging cars, but, I mean, as a start up you've got to worry about your success might kill you, but how do you manage the business? I mean, how are you looking at this? Because you've got a great opportunity, and it's a growth market. >> Thank you, thank you. No we're lucky and fortunate that some of the decisions we made back four years ago people used to laugh, why are you going in this market of cloud data applications and isn't eight out of $10 dollars being spent on Oracle. Why would you go off to that. And, we're like, guys that's today. Where the puck is going. The puck is going towards the cloud and cloud applications. And to answer your question, we've found beautiful beautiful excellent product market fit. A little bit about the company. >> John: What's the use case? >> We're just classically going backup in recovery use cases. Built for cloud native applications. So, for example, I talked about the number one database in the cloud is MySQL. The number two database on prem is SQL Server. Take a guess on number two database in the cloud. It's MongoDB, they just went IPO two weeks ago. Number two database on Amazon is MongoDB. Who thought that five years ago? >> Well Lamp Stack its just open stores driving a lot of this action. >> So, I'll give you an example, one of our biggest, biggest customers which we're going to be announcing very soon, but take the liberty to share here, OpenTable. OpenTable, we are protecting OpenTable. 2.5 billion documents. That's yours and my reservation. That's your and my reservation that we make for a beautiful restaurant. >> Yeah, and if I change that reservation I've got to have that backed up, but want to bring it back. You guys are doing that. So what's the scale of the OpenTable? Ballpark it. >> So all their entire reservation applications. >> The whole thing. >> I probably will not talk about the datasets. You know, but their entire geo-distributed applications. You could be sitting in New York or you could be in London. >> And in which cloud are they using? >> They are all Google cloud, they're on prem. So they're truly private cloud and public cloud. So I call that a multi cloud data management space. They've a ton of stuff still on prem. They're not going to diverge away from that very quickly. >> What's the Google situation? Sam Ramji is over there doing a great job. Google Next is coming up soon, next year. Great traction, but still people aren't considering Google as the white glove service because, well, Amazon's not really known for that either, but at least they have a lot more, thousands more customers than Google does. >> Yeah so I think that the problem is twofold, in my humble opinion. Or the observation is twofold. One, I think Google needs to amp up their game around cloud and cloud messaging. You open Amazon AWS.cloud website, and you open GCP website, you could just see the differences. How Amazon talks about cloud. You're still selling compute storage network, but they talk business agility. What took a month for SQL Server now takes two hours. That's what you're selling, right? >> You're selling speed and you're selling automation, and you're selling value. >> Orchestration. So I think Google has to amp up their game, and amp up their game around that. >> Are they too technical, too geeky? >> Too nerdy, too geeky and still talking about infrastructure. >> Yeah sure, and I think Sam knows that too. >> And I think second part, which is, you know, they absolutely need to amp up their game not go head on and follow Amazon, find the newer applications and new use cases, where they can go ahead of Amazon. Whenever you're playing Art of War, either you can follow somebody or you go establish your own base. >> If they go frontal attack on these guys they'll lose, they've got to play the shadows. I think they can slingshot around them. I think the developer traction they have is strong, even though Amazon's got strong developer traction. Google's got some goodness with TensorFlow, they've got some great technology, but they've got to stop the game of we're Google, go with us. Enterprises don't work that way even though I get why they say that cause it's true. At some level from a alpha geek perspective, but this isn't the land of alpha geeks, these are real people that have jobs and enterprise IT that won't transform. >> They're real enterprises, who have real DBAs, and real server admins who really care about data services. Going back to the comment-- >> Not just the shiny new toy. I need reliability, proof. >> I want durability of this data. Don't just tell me I can get compute 10 times cheaper than Amazon. That's not what I care about. Change my, talk my language. I care about data services. I called data driven enterprises. >> Okay, as you guys go out and talk to customers, give me the anecdotal view of the landscape of customers. Because obviously the earnings came out. We saw, again, Amazon continuing to do well. But they've got some competition. We just laid and unpacked that. Customers now see this. What's kind of the the conversations in the boardrooms, and then in the trenches in IT and enterprise as they transform because IT is not a department anymore in the future enterprise. It's now a fabric of all things in cloud native. What are the conversations? Are they slowing down, obviously they want to go faster, is it a personnel issue? What are some of the conversations? >> I'll give you real example. We presented recently to a big, massive federal government agency. We cannot take their name out of legal. >> John: They spend a lot of money. >> Out of Washington, D.C. out here in the Bay area. >> CIA. Or, NSA. >> You're looking at the start-ups in the Bay area, and they were like, look why had we ever adopted the IBMs, the mainframes, and the EMCs, and the Dells of the world. We also know the wealth of the innovation is here in Silicon Valley. Right, so they come out once a year. And I can tell you, John, spending two hours that we did with them earlier in the week, and they are accelerating their journey to the cloud. Things that were foreign terms like micro services, that's how they want to build these federal agencies now. Every application has to have microservices. They are not truly there. I'll tell you that. They are not there, but that is top of mind for the CIA. >> And gov cloud has grown very fast, fedramp, all these services. >> Amazon called it Commercial Cloud Service, c2s, built for the government. And that entire team was here. >> Well Tarun great job. Congratulations on your opportunity we just talked about. Datos.IO. You guys, it's Datos.IO if you want to check out the website. You're going to be at Reinvent, you're going to come on theCUBE, we'll be there with two sets. Again, I have 50, you're doing Amazon, love the community there, they do a great job, Andy Jassy comes on, great group, Trace Carlson, among others. What are you expecting to see this year at Amazon? Besides the fact that it's going to be crowded and certainly the show of the year in terms of cloud. >> Momentum, they're going to accelerate the momentum. The amount of services they're planning to announce from, because we work with the team very closely, and the amount of acceleration they're showing, the new partners coming on board, and the partners like us who had one customer, and now we have 20 in Amazon cloud. You know, we just became an advanced technology partner, they understand that. >> So you're happy with how they're working with partners? >> Oh we love Amazon team. We became an advanced technology partner. They drilled us down for three months to prove themselves, yes, Datos can run on their infrastructure. You know, they want to go fast, but they want to go diligent fast. >> Yeah, we love Amazon too, of course. Our crowd chat solver's on their website as a case study using some of their stuff. Thanks so much for coming on, your final thoughts. Earnings, cloud, where are we? >> This is unstoppable force. It's an unstoppable force, we're in the first innings. There's so much opportunity ahead of us. And we couldn't have picked a beautiful market to than what we did. >> And true private cloud as we keep pointing out, turns out that's playing out. On prem activity's high. Your thoughts on on prem? True private cloud? >> It's going to survive, it's going to survive. But it's not going to be the growth place. >> But we think it will grow with the SaaS. >> With the Saas, I agree, but infrastructure. Infrastructure is not going to be growing. So that's our two cents, but you know, we'll be back in a couple of weeks, we have a phenomenal exciting product launch coming up. >> I just tweeted on Twitter this morning $1.5 billion is going to be coming out of on premise, non-differentiated labor operations. Which basically means, the rack and stacking some of these jobs are going to go away. But the growth is in automation, AI, and machine learning, and some SaaS tooling. >> Cloud applications. >> Cloud operations business models growing on premise. >> And those dollars are going to leak to the cloud. >> Yeah, and cloud, it's all to the cloud. Tarun, thanks so much. >> Thank you. >> Co-founder and CEO of Datos.IO. I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation in Palo Alto at our studios, thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live at Dell EMC World 2017. This is our eighth year of coverage of formerly known as EMC World but is now Dell World. First year of the combined companies. Some say Dell bought EMC, some say EMC bought Dell. Either way, the merger and the acquisition, or combination, however you want to call it, certainly working out. This is Cube coverage of the first year. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Keith Townsend, CTO advisor. Our next guest is Tarun Thakur, co-Founder and CEO of Datos IO, big news and as well, Peter Smails, Vice President of Marketing and Business Development, a former EMCer, been in the industry. Guys, congratulations, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you, John. Thank you Keith. >> Thank you very much. >> It's a pleasure to be here. >> Big bang news at the Dell-E, so tons of stories here. Obviously the big story is the combination, but you guys have some really amazing news. Funding, traction, give us the update on the hard news. >> Excellent, thank you, John. First, thank you guys. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here. The last couple of weeks have been just amazing for us. Last week was all about product, which Peter is going to talk about. Our journey from our one portal to our two portals. That journey is all driven by customers and where the market is headed. But this week was all about enterprise adoption. It's a&bout enterprise activity. You have these two industry stallworths, 200 billion dollars of market cap, recognizing the value of what we have been-- >> John: And so the hard news is, what, Cisco and NetApp have invested? >> Cisco and Neuron Motor invested in Datos today. >> So this is a round of funding from corporate investors. Any VC's coming in as well, or-- >> Both, you know, the investors were already in the company, they claimed their ownership-- >> John: Okay, so they did their pro-rata. They re-upped. Okay so, new corporate investors, that's validation. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> Why are they investing? My masses wants to know, why the hell are they investing? Why don't they just do it themselves? >> Yeah, so you know, look, I think this looks very, very clear that this industry of the data management, or this industry of enterprise with option to the cloud is just massive-paced right now, right? The acceleration is at it's highest gear, so to speak, and we've been working with both those companies for the last few months. They recognize at fundamental level what we've built, like, the application-centric nature of the product, build it fundamentally for cloud ready applications, helping existing customers mobilize their applications to the cloud. You know, you have to-- we have, now, three year lead, into the space, right, and it's best to join forces. >> Well, we had our Cube conversation in our studio in Palo Alto too, and you kind of smiling then, certainly smiling now. The big funding, big fat financing, as they say, but you really kind of coy about not sharing the news to me, which I thought was cool, kept the secret, but you guys have shell-- >> Tarun: I had valid reasons. >> But, the cloud is certainly accelerating. You guys have the tiger by the tail. But, if you look at the VC funding landscape, we were saying yesterday on our opening that, it's a canary in a coal mine. It's a really leading indicator of what's going on in the marketplace. If you're a storage start-up, you're DOA. No one is funding that. They're re-pivoting always. You see, "I got scale out, scale up storage," pivot, pivot, pivot but all of these companies, data management, data backup, and protection are all booming. Massive up, Rubrik, Cohesity, billion dollar valuations. Why are these companies getting such big funding? Why are you guys being so-- Is cloud just creating massive scale for what was normally a white space? >> No, sir. The answer-- I'll go first. >> Go for it. I'll jump in. >> Because you come from this all most recently. (laughter) >> Look, John, there has been no innovation in the space of backup and recovery for the last three years. We've been still living in the world of four-wall data center media-server based architectures, and backup and recovery products that were truly return for tape architectures. That world ain't exist in this cloud world. There has been no innovation, and now you see complete replacing of good companies. Great follow up companies to be p6art of. All of us recognize the disruption of opportunity, and recognize what we all do for the next 10, 20 years. >> And I'll jump on that. So, if you net it out, there's really two things happening. You know, 70% of CIO's have a cloud-first strategy. So, enterprise, one of the reason we're here. Enterprises have a cloud-first strategy. They're moving to the cloud. They're doing two things. One, they're either building net, new applications in the cloud. Geo-distributed, highly scaled applications. You need a fundamentally different approach for protecting those applications. That's number one. Number two is those same customers are saying, "I want to move as many of my non-recovery workloads from my traditional four wall data center off prim. I want to leverage the cloud. I want to put my data where I want to put it when I want to put it there." There has not been any good solution to do that. So, for us, that's cloud data management. We're about protect. If you have stuff in the cloud, we'll protect it. If you want to move stuff to the cloud, from the cloud, within the cloud, that's mobility to us. That's what we do. Ultimately, this is why there's so much attention being paid to cloud data management, because everybody's moving to the cloud. The one thing we have heard consistently-- >> John: It never existed before, really. >> They're not taking traditional tools to the cloud, simply put. >> You know what, go to the website, I don't see anything about backup. I don't see anything about, you know, there's data protection, but in an enterprise, when we go to the cloud for the first time, a couple of things we figure out first. Backup is hard, because, you know, I can't point my data domain to S3, and backup S3 or some type of &object storage. I also find out that these traditional architectures within the data center just don't translate to the cloud. So, where are you guys at in the education cycle of the enterprise, and helping them understand the value of the application-centric model, and where do you need to go? >> Yeah, so... Keith, that's a good question. You actually hit the nail on the head. You have these proprietary backup appliances. We used to call data domain, really a PPB appliance. You have these media-server based architectures with the likes of Vericlass and Condor. Perfect for four walls, right, in the cloud geo-distributor applications, right? You look at those, sort, that scale, the application centricity, and we started, what we did in our strategy, we started with absolutely green field. What does that mean? That means the cloud-native applications, the non-relatable databases, right? The analytics, the IO key applications. So you go towards the use-case where the world and the customers are already thinking cloud-native. Coaching and training customers, as you rightly called, is a very hard journey. It is a crossing the chasm. It takes time. You need to start with earlier doctors, the innovators, who will then latch onto you and take you forward. So, our strategy of picking the space, which was completely green field ablution, couldn't have served us better. >> So, what's that next step after we've figured out backup, because we have to back the data up. Data management is way more than backup. Now, as I've blown away the limits of my data center, and I can access data from anywhere in the world, what have you helped customers understand that they can do with their applications and data, now that I can access it anywhere in the world? >> Tarun: Excellent question. >> Yeah, so, I can take that. So, to your point, if you look at protect-- our three pillars: protect, mobilize, monetize. You'll hear us say that over and over and over again. We started with protection. It's a business-critical use case. You cannot have a cloud-first strategy if you don't protect your data. Got it. Second piece around the mobility piece is, like you said, giving. What have we done by being application-centric data management? What do we do that nobody else does,6 is we enable you to, very intelligently and very efficiently, move data sets, in native format, where ever you want. To any cloud that you want. We don't normalize data. We don't change formats. So, for example, I'll give you one great example of application centricity. I have an on-prim workload. I want to run a query against that. Star, not Peter star. That resulting data said, "That's all I want to move to the cloud, "because I want to run BIA against it. "I want to do something that helps me "monetize my data in the cloud. "That data set, I want to move." One, you can run a query against that database. Two, we'll intelligently and efficiently only move that data, in native format. Spin it up in the cloud as metadata set. All your metadata's there. Do whatever you want to that data. When you're done, move it back if you want. Do whatever you want. So, essentially, we've eliminated any silos from a cloud standpoint. So what we've done is, we've given people complete cloud freedom to move what they want when they want, where they need to. That's the essence of what we've done. >> Let's talk about the monetize portion of-- cause, you guys have me curious. If I can move the data to the cloud natively, that's great. That's really value add, but on top of that, I need to figure out really tough problem, which is metadata. I have global data, worldwide. I have data scientists wanting to pound against that in a completely new way. Do you guys provide a new way to access this data other than my legacy tools? >> Absolutely, Keith. So I really hit on those two points in the statement you made. Moving data efficiently, Keith, is a very hard problem. What we have done by being, only protecting what you need to protect, why back up an entire database when you only care about a couple of tables? Remember, we're going from traditional monalithic architectures to micro-services in the cloud, right? DBAs and augments, they only care about couple of tables. I want to run a BI query against certain part of the data. What we have fundamentally done, to the first part of your question, move data very highly efficient, which is 10x dedup of what data domain could do. We have significantly modified to be protected around that decon. The second piece around metadata question. What we've really done, Keith, in our, sort of, scale-out elastic data protection, to the tune of elastic compute and elastic storage, you need to extend that to elastic data management, is your metadata catalog can't back up, at the end of the day hasn't catalog. The golden nugget. >> Right. >> That catalog used to be siloed. If I had 10 media servers, I had that catalog siloed around that. >> Keith: No value met. >> No value met. >> Correct. >> Our catalog log is now distributed, stretched across cloud boundaries. If I have a Datos running on prim, and a Datos running on Amazon, those are two instances of the same software, two nodes, the metadata catalog can see each other. You back up here. John can see that backup in the cloud. He can spin up his sequence already in the cloud. You couldn't do that past. You couldn't do that back in the old world. The golden nugget. You need to stretch your metadata catalog and you need to make it distribute it across cloud boundaries, which is fundamentally what-- >> What's the impact to the application developers, because now, are you freeing up-- What is the ultimate value to the customers? I mean you're basically freeing up the hassles for the app developer to say, "whatever?" Give us the bottom line. >> So, you know, absolutely John. Look, I'll give you a customer's real scenario, okay? A world's leading e-commerce platform where we go, and wife's go spend a lot of money buying clothes, so I'm just going to leave it at that, right? They are moving from a monolithic architecture, the Oracle DB2, to the cloud-native architecture. Application developers want to take their CICD. I'm writing new code, I want to bring new catalog items on the website. I want to test my code changes, and I want to go from the data, not two days ago, which was the old backup world, every day you bring a backup. Now they want what we call, to your question of we don't call it backup, what we call it versioning. I want a version one hour ago, because I want to test my code changes. I want to deploy those code changes on the e-commerce platform driving a billion dollars in revenue, so-- >> So you're enabling more and more coolness with the developer from a data, stale verses fresh data. I mean to certain levels, I mean not-- >> But I want to jump on that as well, because the thing that sometimes goes over looked is that, one of the things that the cloud has done that people sort of don't always acknowledge, is it's created, we've pushed the silo problem from on-prim to the cloud. Clouds don't talk to each other. You know, the notion of that. So the notion of the universal file system, such as the cloud, which some of the competitive landscape tries to-- >> John: Wait a minute. We're supposed to have multi-clouds. >> Yeah we're supposed to, but no. To your point, we do have multi-cloud. But its amazing how difficult it is to deal with that. So to your point-- >> In the future they might be talking to each other, but today they're not. >> But, but, and my point is that we enable you to do that. So, the ultimate value to the customer? I'm the marketing guy, yes, but the notion of cloud freedom is a direct business value to the customer-- >> John: So that's legit from your standpoint. Cloud freedom... >> Put it where you need to put it, when you want to put it there. Bring it back when you want to bring it back. So, from an app standpoint, a lot more flexibility. A lot more agility in terms of app development. From a cost standpoint, from an IT standpoint, I can dramatically reduce my cost, cause I can leverage the cloud versus having everything on prim. From an operational standpoint, I ensure everything's protected, so-- >> And we know cloud-native developers are very, like, they won't tolerate a lot of the old baggage and dogma of IT. >> Peter: Right, right. Are ya freakin' kidding me? >> Tarun: Well, well all-- >> Peter: That's actually, can I take that one? >> Tarun: Please, please. >> That's actually a good-- >> You see how fired up he is? >> I don't know how many hours we have to talk on The Cube because that's a fascinating topic. >> Just pause. Can I pause you for a second? >> Yes. >> That's only 30 days since he left EMC. (laughter) >> Alright, alright. Anyway, the point is, but the problem is new, but there is a persona, what I refer to as basically like a persona innovator's dilemma, that we're also helping address, because there's a convergence of personalities of people involved in the protection and management of data. So, to your point, we've been dealing with a lot of the new personas going after cloud-native data protection, but you're watching the organizations. The enterprises, they're going through it and they are rapidly transforming these personas. So, part of our jobs, to your education point earlier, is making sure that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing,% and marrying those two different pieces. That's ultimately, and that's value to the customer, and we help drive that process. >> Well, Tarun and Peter, congratulations, and good to see the journey continuing to accelerate. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Entrepreneurial journey, and we'll keep in touch. Love the name, Datos OS. We believe, and Wikibon believes, and they're firm on this, that the business value of data is ultimately going to be a major, major disruptor for business. Not necessarily technology, but having that data operating system, that Datos, as you call it, is going to be fundamental. Congratulations. >> Thank you, John. >> Just keep it live here at Dell EMC World 2017. More live coverage, stay with us. More after this short break. (upbeat music)

(The Cube Theme) >> Voiceover: Live from Silicon Valley, it's the Cube, covering Google Cloud Next '17. >> Hey, welcome back here, and we're here live in Palo Alto for a special two days of coverage of Google Next 2017. I've John Furrier here in The Cube. We have reporters and analysts on the ground who are calling in, getting reaction on all the great news, and of course, Google's march to the enterprise cloud really is the big story, of course, they have their cloud they've been powering with their infrastructure and it had great presence, powering their own stuff, just like Amazon.com had Amazon webservices, Google Cloud now powering Google and others. Diane Green, new CEO, taking the reins, making things happen, we covered that news, and for an entrepreneurial perspective we have Tarun Thakur who is a co-founder and CEO Datos.io, former entrepreneur at Data Domain, been in the business, newly funded, Series A entrepreneur funded with True Ventures and Lightspeed. >> That is correct, John, thank you. >> Thanks for coming on. Tell us what you guys do first. Explain what you guys as a company are doing. >> Absolutely. I'd love to first thank you for the opportunity. It's a pleasure to be here. About Datos, I'll sort of zoom out a little bit and if you really see what's really happening out in the industry, our founding premise, me and my co-founder, Prasenjit, our founding principle is very simple. There are some transformative changes happening in the application era. I was just listening to Akash talk rom SAP, and enterprise workloads are moving to the cloud. That was our founding premise, that not only do you not have those IOT workloads, these SAS workloads, the real time analytics workloads, being born in the cloud, but you have all these traditional workloads that are moving as fast as they can to the cloud. So if you really look at that transformative change, we have a very simple founding premise: applications define the choice of the IT stack underneath it. What do we mean by that? The choice of the database, the choice of the storage, the choice of all the data management tooling around it, starting with protection, starting with governance, compliance, and so on and so forth, right? So if the application workloads are under disruption, and they're moving to the cloud, the impact it has on the IT stack underneath is phenomenal. >> So Tarun, you guys had a great write-up in the Register, Chris Miller, who is well known in the story, 'cause we all follow him, he's a great guy, and very fair, but he can be critical, too, he's very snarky. We like his columns. He called you guys the Tesla of the backup world. What does he mean by that? Does he mean it like you have all the bells and whistles of a modern thing, or is there a specific nuance to why he's calling you the Tesla of the backup world? >> No, this is excellent, John. You know, we are fortunate and we're honored. >> Electric backup? I mean, what's happening here? (laughing) I mean, what does he mean by that? What's the meaning? >> Couldn't have given us a better privilege than what he gave. Had a chance to host him in the office, small office, much smaller than what you have here, in December, and a 45 minute session became a two hour session and really he dug into why the Tesla, and essentially it goes back to, John, you had the traditional workloads running on your traditional databases, classical scale-operational databases like Oracle and SQL. Now, you're dealing with these next generation, hyperscale distributed applications. IOT real time analytic is building on that team, those are being deployed fundamentally on distributed architectures. Your Apache Cassandra, your Amazon Dynamo DB, your Google Spanner, now that we're talking in the context of Google Cloud Next, right? When you look at those distributed architectures, there's so much fundamental shift. You don't run them on shared storage, you don't have media servers anymore in the cloud- >> You have the edge. You have the edge out there. >> You have the edge computing. Given all those changes, you have to fundamentally rethink of backup, and that's essentially what we did. Just going back to Tesla, Tesla was started with a fundamentally seminal architecture. >> So you thought this from the ground up. That's essentially one point, and the other one is that it's modern in the sense of it's really taken advantage of the new architecture. >> That's absolutely right, you know, when we started, again, back in June of 2014, we really started with the end in mind, ten years, the next ten years ahead of us, and the end in mind was, "Look, it's going to be distributed architectures, "it's going to be your hyperscale applications, the webscale applications, and you need to be able to understand data and protect it and recover it and manage your data at that scale. >> Okay, so you guys are also Google partners, so you have an interesting perspective. You're on the front lines, Series A entrepreneur, you haven't cleared the runway yet. You still have to prove yourself. The game is just starting; you don't end it with the financing. That's just validation for the vision and the mission, and you've had some good press so far from Chris, now as you execute, you have a partner in Google. What's your analysis of Google, and as someone who's close to them, certainly as an entrepreneur, you're nimble, you're fast, you understand the tech, you mentioned Spanner, great horizontal scale of opportunity, but some of the enterprises might be a little slower, and they have different orientation, so help us understand what's Google doing? What's their main focus? >> I'll give you an answer in three part series. Number one, we are, again, a start-up, seriously, as you said, we have a lot ahead of us, even though we've been out here for three years, it feels like yesterday. (laughing) >> John: It's a grind. >> It is a grind, but to partner Google Cloud, one of our key marquee customers, a Fortune 100 home improvement retailer, under NDA, cannot take their name out of respect. >> John: Well the register says Home Depot. (laughing) >> Okay. >> Okay, so- >> I'll let Chris do the honor, but it's a Fortune 100 home improvement retailer, John, and their line of business, their entire e-commerce platform, the CIO down has moved their entire platform, migrated from DB2 to Google Cloud. It's not running on DB2 on Google Cloud platform, it's running all on a distributed massive scale- >> So did they sunset DB2 or did they completely- >> Tarun: Completely migrated away from DB2. >> Okay. >> It's part of the digital transformation journey Home Depot is at. They are three years in, they have two more years to go, and as part of the digital transformation journey they're on, they are now running their e-commerce website, which, think of you and I going to Thanksgiving and buying your home tools, and that application runs on a highly scalable Apache Cassandra database on Google Cloud. Now, second part, going back to large-scale enterprises, Home Depot, being how progressive they are, they understood cloud does not mean recoverability. Cloud gives me the scale, cloud gives me the economics, cloud gives me the availability, but it doesn't give me the point in time, and I need myself to be covered against that "what if" moment. We have hold-the-delta moments, we have hold-the-gitlack moments, SalesForce.com down with that human error, right? You don't want to be in that position as a Home Depot. >> You mean Amazon went down? >> Tarun: And Amazon. >> Yeah, Amazon went down. >> And if you read the analysis, the analysis was, "We're sorry guys, there was a human error. "Somebody was meant to change this directory; "he changed that directory." >> So this is a whole new game. One of the fears that the enterprises have is that in a new architecture, besides security, which is a huge issue, we'll have another segment on that shortly, but is that I want to leverage the capabilities of the partner in the cloud, because manageability, certain things, I don't want to build on my own, and so I can see you guys being a new modern piece because the data piece is so important because I'm storing at the edge, I'm not moving data around, so there's no data in motion as much as it is on premise. Is that a big part of this? >> It is, from a, I'll zoom out again, from a CIO perspective, we pitched this to about 100+ CIOs so far. From there it is truly, and I hate to use this word, but it's truly a multi-cloud world, John. They have invested in private clouds and an on-prem infrastructure that ain't going anywhere anytime soon. They are moving some of their SAP instances to a CenturyLink, MSPs, the managed service providers, but they know, as a CIO, I have my application developers and I have my lines of businesses- >> John: And they have their operations guys, too. >> Who want to go as fast as they can. I'll come back to the operations in a second because you'll be very surprised to hear this, but again from a CIO down, he wants to make his application developers to go as fast as they can, and he wants the lines of business just to go open up the next applications- >> John: Because that's top-line revenue right there. >> That's top-line revenue right there. So they want scale, they want agility, but they don't want to sacrifice that insurance piece. Going back to the IT ops and the dev-ops and the classical ops, you'll be surprised, we've been working with this team, our lead-in to the Fortune 100 home improvement retailer was a line of business, but right now it's all about their core IT team. Their IT ops team, the database admins, the database ops people, they are the ones who are really running this product day-to-day, day in and day out, and scaling it, and using it at the pace they need to. >> What's the big misconception, if you could point to, about Google, because one of the things we're trying to surface is that Amazon and Google, it's not apples to apples comparison, they're different clouds, and it is multi-cloud, I want to get you to that question today, but we can get to that in a second, what your definition of that means, but for now, what is the big misconception in your mind, people might misconstrue with Google? >> That's a great question, John, and I was hearing your previous interview with Akash, and again, I'll give you our partner-centric view; a young start-up built something disruptive for that platform. We got Amazon as the first platform. We have a good set of customers running on Amazon, and of course, this home improvement retailer took us to Google Cloud, "Hey guys, if you want to work with us, "you have to support Google Cloud." We went to Google Cloud, and the amount of pull that we got from Google Cloud folks to make it happen in less than three months was phenomenal. They didn't stop at that. They brought their solution architect team, Google Cloud, wrote a paper about Datos, their team, and posted it on their website. "How to use Datos on Google Cloud." Fascinating. Amazon has never done that. It, again, speaks to if you see all the announcements that came out yesterday, Google Cloud has been a significant- >> Well Google's partnering, Google's partnering, one of the things that came out of today's news that has been teased out is Diane Green said in the keynote, "I like partnering." She used the word, "I like partnering," meaning Google, and she has that DNA. She's from VM, where she knows the valley game, she understands ecosystems. She also likes to work on some cool stuff, which could be a double-edged sword. She's always been innovating. But Google has the tech, and she knows enterprise, so they're marching down that road. What areas would you say Google needs to sharpen up a little bit to kind of move faster on? I mean, obviously there's no critique on them; they're pedaling as fast as they can, but in the areas you think they should work on, is it security, is it the data side, what are the things that you think they've got to pedal a little faster on. >> I would definitely start with enterprising touch. I think they need to really amp up the game around enterprise. >> John: You mean the people, the process? >> The people, the processes, the onboarding, the deployment, giving them the blue templates, giving them reference architectures, giving them, hand ruling them a little bit, and I think that'll go a long ways- >> John: The basic enterprise motions. >> Yes, you need that. You're a cloud; that doesn't mean my database guy is not going to need the help of a Google Cloud admin to help me onboard. They need that wrap-up. From their point on they build phenomenal scalable services. Snap invested two billion dollars in Google Cloud. They understand- >> And Amazon got the other half, but- >> The underlying infrastructure is there. >> Yeah but this is the thing. The problem that, the problem is that there's two perspectives of what we see. One is people want to run like Google in the sense of how they're scaling, but not everyone has Google-like infrastructure, so I think Google has to kind of, they want the developers, in my mind, they get a A+ there, with open source, what they do with Kubernetes and whatnot, the operational orientation is something they've got to work on, SLAs are more important than price. >> Managing the orchestration piece, giving them the visibility, letting them come on and come off, and going back to multi-cloud, I'll tell you again, the same customer took us to a use case, which is so fascinating, John. They want on-prem backup and recovery. Remember, protection is the Trojan horse. Protection, it all starts with protection. >> It's always one of those things that's always been front and center. You saw that. It used to be kind of a throw-away thing. "Oh, what about backup? "Oh, we didn't factor in." Now it's front and center, certainly cloud is going to be impacted because data's everywhere. Data's going to be highly frictionless. Okay, question, and final question on this piece, where we talk about what you guys are doing, what does multi-cloud mean, or two questions: what is the definition of multi-cloud, and what does cloud-native mean to you? Define those terms. >> Absolutely. Those two terms are very, very close to us. So multi-cloud, I'll begin with that. I'll give you a customer use case that will hopefully ground the conversation. A multi-cloud essentially means from a customer perspective, I'm going to run on-prem infrastructure, I want to be able to recover or manage that data in the cloud, I don't want to make multiple copies, I don't want to duplicate data, I want to recover a version of that data in the cloud, why? Because I have my application developers who want to test staff. I want my DR to be in a different cloud. I do not want to put all my eggs in one basket. So again, it is truly- >> John: It's a diversity issue. >> It is, and they want multiple-use cases to be spread across clouds. Some clouds have strength in DR, some clouds, like Amazon, have strength in orchestration, and onboarding, and some cloud platforms like Google Cloud have strengths in, hey, you can bring your application developers and you don't have to worry about retail. Some of the retailers, like Gap, like Safeway, like eBay, those guys will hesitate to go to Amazon because they know Amazon, at the heart, is a retail business. >> So conflict there. Now, cloud-native. Define cloud-native. >> Cloud-native, to us, is you have Oracle running that database natively within the services of the cloud. For example, take Amazon Dynamo DB. It's a beautiful example of a cloud-native service. You don't run Dynamo DB on-prem. It was built ultimately for the cloud. Cloud Spanner, another example of cloud-native. It is built for that infrastructure, floor ground up, and has been nurtured for the last ten years for the elastic infrastructure. >> Alright, Tarun, great to have you on. Quick plug for what you guys are doing. What's next? You got the Series A, you're getting customers, you got a big customer you can't talk about, but it's in the Register article, Home Depot. What other things are you working on? What's the key priorities? Hiring? You've got some new announcements coming up I hear. Rumor mill, I won't say who they are, but you're partnering. What's the key focus? What's your key objectives? >> No, we only stay focused on building, and as you early on said, it's still early for us. We want to stay focused on getting customer acquisition, customer momentum, deploying those customers, making them happy customers, having them become referenceable customers for us, and of course, the next big focus for me personally is going to be bringing some of the people in the team, some of the people who can help me scale the company- >> John: Engineering- >> Engineering, marketing, business development, sales, go to market, so that's going to be second we're to focus, and third, and again, you'll hear the announcement coming very quickly, we're going to be partnering with some of the leading enterprise infrastructure companies, both on their enterprise traditional storage companies, and some of the leading, I'm just going to leave it at that. >> And True Ventures is the seed investor and Lightspeed on the Series A, the True company on the Series A with them. 'Cause they tend to follow, they don't leave you hanging. >> Yeah, Puneet is excellent. I love him. >> Yeah, John Callahan's company's got great stuff. And they had some great eggs, they had FitBit and they've got a lot of great stuff going on. >> Well they're excellent, excellent pro-entrepreneur people. Great to work with as well. >> High integrity, great people. Tarun, thanks for coming on and sharing the entrepreneurial perspective, the innovation perspective, certainly as a Google partner, good to have your reaction and analysis. >> Thank you, John. >> It's The Cube, bringing you all the action from Google Next here in our studio. More Google Next coverage after this short break. (The Cube Theme)

(bright music) >> Hi, this is Donald Klein with CUBEConversations, coming to you from our Palo Alto studios. We're here doing a special series on CMOs and the challenges of digital marketing, and today we're here with Peter Smails, who is the former chief marketeer at DatosIO. Welcome, Peter. >> Thanks for having me, always fun to be here. >> Good, good. Well look, so, I wanted to set aside this time and have a discussion with you, because you're somebody who's had a long marketing career, you've been in big companies, you've been in small companies, most recently with Datos. >> Yup. >> You've been in companies where you've had established brands with proven product stories. You've also been in situations where you've got companies that were sort of unknown to the broader world, and you had to find a way to make them known and prove out that proposition-- >> Put 'em on the map. >> Put 'em on the map. So talk to us a little bit about how you've approached that challenge when you've been in some of the smaller companies. >> Sure. Sure, happy to do that. And yeah, my past has been an interesting mix of big companies and small, and the small companies present a bunch of unique challenges, but there's nothing more fun than having the opportunity of having a company that's got some great technology, some great people, and essentially the fun job of any marketeer is, how do you put them on the map? And we've been talking a lot about, what are the levers you can pull? What can you do? And one of the challenges with being a small company is you don't have any money. >> Mm. >> I mean, you might, but you don't have a ton of money. So, that's where social, right off the bat, if I sort of look at the levers I can pull initially, when you look at your strategy, OK, I need to put the company on the map so I've got to drive thought leadership, I've got to drive awareness. You know, I've also got to drive demand-gen. So what are the levers I can use, what are the vehicles that I can use to drive that? And I think that's where social has, a lot of people think of social as the new demand-gen vehicle. I don't necessarily see it that way, I think social has actually become an ideal complement to all the other traditional levers that you still want to use. And again, there's segmentation that comes into this as well, in terms of what organizations you're trying to target. Are you going after SNB, are you going after the enterprise, et cetera. In my case, it's primarily been going after the enterprise. >> Mm-hmm. >> So, when I look at that from a social standpoint, social media in general sort of the value of it is really as a complement to the other traditional levers that you have in your arsenal. Whether that be events, industry events, whether that be traditional demand-gen things, outcome type things, social becomes an ideal complement for promoting those things, and then social also becomes a very important pillar in the sense it removes sort of the barrier to entry in terms of being relevant if you will, because it's a very cost-effective way of creating a drum-beat of news. And again, we can get into more specifics, of the different aspects of that, whether it's traditional social, like the twitters, whether it's videos and that type of things, the different pieces you could use in there. >> OK. So, now, talk a little about the role of events. One of the challenges with the smaller companies, you don't have the big event budgets, you don't have the big booths, but still now, you say digital, you often hear some companies talk about how we're going to try to go all digital. Because that's a place where we can play, because even if we don't have the money. But digital is a crowded space, so did you strike a balance between events and digital? What was your thinking? >> That's a great question. And balance is exactly the right word. It's going to vary, there's no sort of exact science, but you have to be selective, again, going into an enterprise clientele, you have to be selective about the events that you're going to do, number one. Digital is a very good instrument, particularly as a small company, this is a point I didn't make before, the whole notion of inbound versus outbound as well. Where digital can play a very key role from an inbound standpoint, think simple things like SEO and SEM. Can people find you? Are you relevant? The early adopters are the people that know they have a problem, so they're going to look for something. So you can very cost-effectively make yourself relevant there if they know what they're looking for. And particularly, that's what's fun about creating a segment, is if you're doing something nobody else is doing, then you're playing in a potential blue ocean, where you're not competing at a very high cost, you're not bidding at a very high cost for some of the things you do, form say Google Ad Words or that type of stuff. So you've got your ability to be effective from an inbound standpoint, number one. To your point about the events, you absolutely need to do those events. Your core set of whatever segment you're in, whatever business you're in, you've got to be focused on those core events, because I still find that to be, that's where a lot of, enterprises, they still use events as one of the key places they go to learn, to educate themselves, to find out what's happening in the marketplace. The key is, how do you maximize your presence at those events? How do you leverage social to promote the fact that you're going to be there? >> Right. >> What do you do at the event? What can you do? And again, this is where we can come back and talk about things specifically like theCUBE, you know, where you can use vehicles like theCUBE very effectively, because, one, I can drive a lot of influence in-show, but then as well I can create a much longer tail, I can maximize my presence, I can maximize the IP that I bring to that show by capturing that in digital medium, like video, and then being able to use it post. Simply put, you go to a show these days, if you're not on theCUBE, then you're missing the boat. It's just sort of like a regular pillar of all the core industry shows. So that's great for driving influence, not only to customers, but within the industry, but then it also is a great way for creating assets that I can then use for longer tail. For thought leadership, or demand-gen, or whatever I may want to use. >> OK, understood, understood. So let's talk a little bit about this notion of complement. So what you're saying is that, you want to go to the events, that's where the belly-to-belly interaction is, that's where things are happening, right, and then you're using social to leverage up your presence at those events. >> Correct. Or to promote the fact that you're going to be there. Drive interest in people showing when you do a contest, or there's, you know, creative things you can do, but yeah, you're using social to basically drive awareness to the fact that you're going to be there. You're using social to promote you're in the session. You're on theCUBE, or whatever it is you might be doing. You're hosting an event that evening, an offsite event, use that as a way to complement the fact that you're at the event doing your belly-to-belly, great term, you're doing your traditional belly-to-belly get-together. >> Understood. Because we've heard people talk about it and say, social's great, digital is great, but it's also very crowded out there. And where you've got people's attention, where you've got people's mind chair is in and around events. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with that. And it's, you know, social is a great way, it removes the barriers to entry, but the flip side of that, for good or for bad, is that it also creates a lot of noise. So how do you separate the noise? How do you rise above the noise? And that really is, leveraging social, leveraging digital overall, in the appropriate high-credibility, high-integrity ways, to drive influence within the industry, to drive relevance of what you're doing, and then also use that as a vehicle for helping other demand-gen sites. So it's the new normal kind of thing. It's not the ideal platform, social, per se, is not the ideal demand-gen platform, but it is a complementary piece, but also to your point, creates a tremendous amount of noise, so then the challenge becomes, how do you basically stand above the noise? And that comes down to influence, that comes down to credibility. >> OK. >> Are you telling your credible narrative, are you talking to credible people, are you in the appropriate forums, that type of thing. >> OK, and so let's talk about video and how that kind of fits into that digital strategy. Cause that's kind of the new realm in terms of everybody wanting to kind of create digital content, in video form, what's been your experience in terms of the challenges of creating that content, and then getting it out in digestible forms? >> A couple different aspects to that. The creation of content is getting, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. The creation of video content is getting easier, if you will, in the sense of the cost of, you know, you can put a studio and a small business together reasonably inexpensively, but then what content are you creating there? Well, what content I'm creating there is essentially I'm going to promote what we're doing as a company, we're going to create some short little blurb about the recent launch or something, or potentially have a customer, although typically you have a customer, and you go visit the customer and do it there. But that's the stuff where you're sort of the self-promotional stuff. You know, where I find the events, in particular what you guys are doing with theCUBE in Silicon Valley, what I like about that is that the content that I'm creating, it's by no means sort of a pre-canned, sort of has a black and white beginning and end. It's very topical, it's very sound bite-ish in a good way, not a bad way, if you will, and it's also very topical. Very topical, which is key, because again, back to the whole influence, it's not just about hammering away at the customer, hey look at me, look at me, look how great I am. It's basically, you have to build a community, you have to build an eco-system, you have to build a community of people that know you, that trust you, and we talked earlier about the whole earned media versus paid media, if you build that credibility, you build that influence, like hey, saw you on theCUBE. Get an email from Fortune or Forbes, like, oh yeah, I saw you on theCUBE, we'd be interested in doing this, that, and the other thing and it all comes down to building that arsenal, if you will, or that library of high-credibility, high-integrity, high-influence content. Which is all video-based, because video is the way people consume information. >> So I think we'd agree with you, right, having content which is based on authentic interactions between a vendor and his customers, between vendors and partners, between vendors and analysts, right, that's really the key to making good, engaging content. Now what about, in terms of, how do you find getting that content out to individuals in a way that is kind of consistent with the way people are consuming content now in social media? I think we're seeing, there's a whole debate out there, long-form versus short-form content, clips, et cetera, what's been your experience? >> I don't know the number, but I'm quite certain that the average attention span of people in general is dramatically down. There'd be an interesting metric on that. So the world leans absolutely heavily towards, as I said earlier, more sound bite-oriented. But not sound bite in a bad way, it's just sort of, just look at the landscape we live in now, it's like, until recently, we lived in a 140 character world kind of thing. And you can convey a lot more through spoken word than you can just typing, but people consume things in very short bursts of information. So one, you want to take advantage of that. Two, the other thing I would say to this, is that one of the things I like about short-form video is again, I'm a big meta-data guy. In one five-minute, just in the conversation we're having now, we've covered eight different topics. >> Right. >> So to me, as a marketeer, I'm like OK, great, that's eight different-- >> Donald: That's eight different clips. >> Kind of thing, great, and I can use that for any number of different things I want to. One of those pieces that maybe was the part about so what are you doing now? Maybe the plug part could be, we could promote that, that could actually be a demand-gen thing. Or if you're talking about a segment where you're just like well how are you guys uniquely differentiated? You could use that for consideration. You know, there's all different ways, but the notion of sort of highly granular video content has huge value. >> Donald: Interesting, OK. >> It just creates a lot of leverage. >> So this has kind of been a blocking and tackling for marketeers kind of conversation, so kind of sum up your main points here, so one you were saying, use social to complement your presence at events and other types of-- >> And not just events, use it as a way of supporting demand-gen, use it as a way of staying relevant, join all the appropriate communities you need to be joining. You have to stay relevant, you have to stay within the noise, sort of as the table stakes, then beyond that, you got to figure out how do you rise above the noise, how do you use it strategically, to actually rise above the noise of everybody else's banging away on social as well. >> OK, agree with that. Second point then, use authentic content. Try to mix in relevant-- >> People are tired of just talking heads. People are tired of, I don't need to see another video on how great you are, or whatever, so back to your point, that's my interpretation of authentic content. Do what you do. Share what you do. Put it in context and smart people will figure out, and then obviously share it in the appropriate communities so that people can find it, but they very naturally, I think there's a very low appetite now for BS, 'cause there's so much noise. People are so hungry for just getting to the relevance of the information that they want, which again is where the sound bite-level stuff, and the more you can index and be intelligent about that data, the faster you can help people find information they're looking for. >> OK, excellent, alright, well we're going to have to wrap it up on that point but I think that was exactly right, I think we're seeing that in some of the customers we work with as well. So, leverage to social, focus on authentic content, get it out there in forms that people are willing to digest. >> Peter: Absolutely correct. >> Alright, well thank you everyone, this has been Donald Klein here with Peter Smails, former chief marketeer at DatasIO, with CUBEConversations. (bright music)

>> We just started reselling Veeam We now have a combination of a very strong technology portfolio, deep integration, and a commitment to good market partnership. The combination, we think, will be very exciting for HP, Nimble, and Veeam customers in the years to come. (relaxed electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from New Orleans it's theCUBE covering Veeam On 2017. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to New Orleans, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. Dave Russell is here. He's a vice-president and distinguished analyst at Gartner. David, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey, good to see you guys. Nice to see you again. >> So, we were talking off camera. I mean, you are probably the number one known backup, data protection analyst in the business and have been for quite some time. You've seen it all. Give us the state of backup, recovery, data protection, availability, whatever you want to call it. But where are we today? >> You know, in some regards, I don't know if we're any different than we were 28 years ago when I got into the business. The interesting thing is, my wife actually got into this before I did. We were both mainframe developers of backup at IBM and I didn't really want to get a real job. Maybe you could argue I still don't have a real job but what I wanted to do is to stay in grad school forever and I started doing backup there in grad school for undergraduate computing lab. And about six years ago, I showed my wife some of the polls that we do at Gartner events. We can do realtime feedback, what's your greatest challenge, what are your issues with backup? And then she said that was kind of interesting. Two years ago, she came to an event we did in Las Vegas and afterwards she came up and I was hoping she was going to say, "Hey, you did a good job." She said, "What in the heck have you been doing? "These are the same problems when I left the industry 20 years ago to be a mom." Everybody still has too much data, too little backup window, the cost is too high, the complexity is too great. So a lot of infrastructure changes but not a lot of the same pain points have shifted dramatically. What has shifted, though, is cost is even more important than it ever was. Obviously, we could talk about volume of data but now we maybe want to have multiple copies of even our backup data. We want faster access to that backup data. 'Cause we want, now, backup to be a high-availability replication solution not just the tape in the vault somewhere. So there's now speed requirements on our backup. So, I could keep going forever but I'll just let it out to say that as an industry, we still have many of the same challenges that we've always had, arguably for decades and decades. Now, the challenge is the cat's out of the bag, meaning the rest of the business sometimes is aware of just how costly this is. Just how difficult this is from an op-ecs perspective. We can't go hire five, 10 smart people to do this. >> And the backup window, is it correct to say it's essentially disappeared? >> Yeah, there's some organizations that really feel like we don't have a backup window 'cause if we just take a step back, what is really backup, nevermind how you could use it for other use cases like DevOps. Backup, if you state it in the most unappealing terms, it's how much data are you willing to lose, how much time are you willing to take to go get that aged copy of data. And, of course, the rhetorical answer would be well, I don't want any of those bad things to happen, right. But at the end of the day, that's really our frustration. >> David: And I want it back instantly. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so that's obviously putting great pressure on the businesses. So when you look at Veeam's ascendancy, I've been saying it all day and I'd like to test this with you, it sort of coincided, obviously, with VMware and when people had to sort of rethink their VMware backups. You just did a webinar entitled "Backup: Fix it or Ditch it." I feel like a lot of people went through that, answering that question in early VMware days. So, give us, what was the conclusion of that webinar? >> Yeah, well, the number one thing is frustration. And we've done a lot of drill down on what are you frustrated on. Number one is cost, number two is complexity and we could even break this up by large enterprise, mid-size, and smaller enterprise but there's a lot of similarities. So now, where do you come out on fix it or ditch it? The answer for many organizations, is a little bit of both. And what I mean by that, this is kind of mind-boggling, I think, is that backup space used to be sweep the floor. If you were in an incumbent vendor, you wanted to kick out any other solution, if you were an organization, you wanted to collapse from three, five backup products to one backup product, and if you were an emerging vendor, what do you want to do? Go kick out the incumbent vendor. But now, an organization says, "You know, maybe we'd like "to completely change, but we can't. "So we're going to try and fix what we've got." And that's usually what I recommend, at least try and get the value out of what you've already bought and deployed But we're going to implement something else, too. So, there's probably 15 years or more of trying to collapse the number of solutions. Now an organization says, not 'cause I want five solutions but because through pain, basically, not getting my needs met, I'm going to continue running two solutions or expand to two solutions. And you could argue Veeam invented that. They came in on the virtual end, exactly to your point, and then it was a land and expand. We see this happening, though, in the industry overall. >> Dave, I have to think that just the current state of cloud is compounding what you're talking about. Customers have their own data centers, they have virtualized environments. I think Veeam said this morning the average customer they have is only 75% virtualized so they've got 25 physical. Everybody's got SASS, everybody's using some public cloud, at least for some test data. Veeam says that they can now go everywhere but most customers are probably doing piecemeal deployments. Everything in IT is additive. What do you see, how does cloud impact that space in general? >> Well, my biggest fear on the cloud aspect, whether it's software as a service or public cloud, someone's going to rent you infrastructure, is that we're going to learn some lessons the hard way. Again, meaning that most organizations typically think well, if we went to software as a service, they'll take care of it. We have no responsibility anymore or didn't we "get rid of that problem" meaning backup or DR. And the answer is no. You're still the owner of the data. And where it gets shades of gray is that SASS provider's going to give you some level of protection, some level of backup. Chances are they're not going to give you everything you had when you had that email system on premise. So my fear is that organizations are going to suffer an outage and realize there is still a need for additional protection. Right now, many organizations, they're running a bit exposed or don't even realize that they're running a bit exposed. >> Yeah, what is the state of those SASS providers and public cloud providers? Is Veeam still best of breed to go in those environments or are we starting to see them all offer their own native pieces? >> Well, I think we're in a transition period because there's a number of third party solutions that can be good at handling this and you'd have to believe that ... So, take Microsoft for example. They're in the unique position of having had on premise applications and now having public cloud and so eventually, someone's going to say well, here's all the things we did for exchange on premise. Why can't we get all that availability beyond 60, 90 day retention if we go to SharePoint Online or exchange in Azure. There's a tension that's taking place right now. Right now, at this point in time, though, I think if an organization really wants to protect their data like they have and they're used to having been doing on prem, they're going to need a third party solution, whether it's Veeam or someone else. >> David, I want to ask you about your magic corner on data center backup and recovery software. It struck me that ... I don't want to overdo it. I know you guys are very sensitive about each quadrant and how customers should interpret that but we all do the same thing. We go right to the leader. People fight to be in the upper right. And it struck me that Veeam was the only relatively smaller company that sort of knows their way in there. And they're known for SMB but in the magic quadrant you were saying this is really the upper end of M and larger organizations. So what is it that sort of sets leadership apart and how is it that Veeam was able to get in there with those established, much larger players? >> Yeah, that's a great question because exactly what you said, the competitive response would have been isn't Veeam just deployed in small environments? And collectively, we take about two and a half thousand end user inquiry calls a year in backup. So we started seeing a number of trends a couple of years earlier that hey, Fortune 500 companies are deploying Veeam and it's not in the plant in Mexico City or in a small, little area. It's in the Detroit Motor City in the data center and we're seeing a bid for six figures or higher, in some cases. So that's when we started realizing, hey wait a minute. The point of being cast an enterprise supplier is to actually be in the enterprise. They're already in the enterprise. So that's what we started to notice and finally we said another issue we have with putting some of the leaders in quadrants, are they really leading the market or pushing the market? And we really felt that Veeam had kind of crossed over the point last year when we issued the quadrant in June that they were causing the market to shift, whether it was having better virtualization capability, changing to socket-level pricing, addressing ease of use. They were doing things and give sort of "extra credit" for a provider that can not only sense what the market is looking for but kind of push the market. >> Can you explain the socket-based pricing a little bit and how that affected the market? 'Cause I know a number of vendors have made some pricing changes. IBM in particular sort of said everybody can buy anything and use credits there and that was, I felt, a move to keep the install base where it is. Veeama interpreting was different with the socket-based pricing. What was that, did it have an effect on the market in any other way? >> Yeah, the short answer is it absolutely effected the market because you look at the number of heterogeneous backup vendors that have come out and now offer socket-based pricing. So they're doing this in response to Veeam. And what we see now is the organization, depending on who the buyer is, they have no idea what terabytes are. I know what server deployment we have, meaning how much socket we've got so it was just speaking to that constituency in a buying motion that they understood. >> Stu: Something they could quantify. >> Exactly. >> Veeam made a number of announcements this morning and some prior to the show. Anything jump out at you? CDP's one of the ones we've been talking the most. Maybe you could give us your quick competitive analysis of how that looks. >> Well, CDP was near and dear to my heart. In 2005, it was September 2005, almost the same day Microsoft came out with their data protection manager for CDP, Backup Exec came out with CDP. >> Stu: I was trying to remember when Kosha came out because I was at the company that acquired Kosha. >> Yeah, sure. So Kosha, Topio, you know, it can go on. And CDP, around 2005 and 6 was really a lot of buzz, going to change everything. The problem was it was difficult to do because thee infrastructure didn't facilitate it. So, back then you had to split the volume manager and have multiple rights. Now, today's announcement on CDP where you don't have to have a lot of extra infrastructure but it's the hypervisor that's splintering this off for you. IL filtering that's making this easier, making this actually achievable. I think that's going to be really compelling. Most people here I've been talking to say this is going to be great for critical applications. There were some shops I spoke with in the mid-2000s, you know, five, six, seven years, that said we use CDP even on general file systems and why? It's because if I keep making a delete and I call up the help desk and it's like, oh, Dave hit confirm to delete again. He called up to say can you get me my file back and it's the fifth time I've called this week. Well, data protection would allow us to go let him self-service perhaps, but definitely use less data. >> So, for Veeam to get that CDP granularity, if I could talk about that for a second. It's got to obviously rely on VMware APIs. Are you, I'm sure you're tracking this, but are you concerned about Dell EMC gaming the system? Historically, what have you seen there? Difficulty getting hands on SDKs? Trying to put the incumbent in an advantage. What are your thoughts on that? >> Well, you're right. Historically, especially at the storage rate perspective, proprietary APIs or sort of supporting SMIS but having quote "extensions" which are basically proprietary off to the side, were an issue. Here is a case where I think it's in the hypervisor's best interest, and soon it'll be in Microsoft's best interest with Hyper-V and you could go on and on about the other platforms to offer the capability as well. So there is a danger but I don't see how the sort of storage oligarchs are going to be able to fence that off in this case. >> Yeah, I call them the cartel. Is Veeam now, because of its ascendancy, part of that oligarchy? >> Well, I think you have to say approaching half a billion dollars in revenue, it's sort of like the enterprise question. How many enterprises do you have to get in before you enterprise? Well, how many hundreds of millions of dollars do you have to make before you're one of the big ones? >> What do you make of this messaging of Veeam, companies like Veeam, don't want to talk about backup anymore. Backups kind of past ... You see some start-ups like Datos the other day said no, no, we're not a backup company. Okay, and then there's shifting to this notion of availability. Does that resonate with customers? Is that the way customers are thinking about this or is it just sort of good marketing? >> It resonates with some customers. Now, personally, I like it 'cause to me availability is an umbrella. We can put backup and we can put disaster recovery and high availability under there. And maybe you can sort of find a way that DevOps and copy data kind of plays under availability. It doesn't actually work in all geographies. So, I was in Tokyo at a Gartner data center conference three weeks ago, I guess, almost. And they don't really, availability doesn't sound good and disaster recovery sounds worse because that meant you had disaster. So how much disaster recovery do you want to buy? Well, none because I don't want any disasters. So availability is a little regionalized. There are definitely some shops that just say look, I have a backup budget and that's what I need to go and do better. I have a backup pain point, etc. I think, though, whether it's replication and instant VM mounting and the notion of DevOps, we're seeing more and more organizations get their head around ... Whether they want to call it availability or something else but it's beyond backup. >> Well, what's come through loud and clear, however, is your point about cost. I mean, it seems like customers are still insanely focused on cost and that's because backup generally is insurance. So cost and complexity have to be minimized and a lot of the backup platforms that are out there are expensive and they're anything but simple. >> Yeah, and you look at the economics. We've seen negative pricing pressure on dollars per terabyte of backup software now for three years running. Now, list price and obviously, no one really pays list, but list price starting with just a small number of terabytes, some vendors were 10,000 dollars, some vendors were 14 and a half thousand dollars a terabyte and you and I go down to whatever shop and we go buy a terabyte drive, if you can find a one terabyte drive, for a couple hundred dollars. >> David: Four terabytes now. >> And obviously, the data written on it is where the real value is but you see the mismatch of I'm spending list price 14,000 dollars terabytes to protect 140 dollars worth of equipment. There's a problem here. So, whether you're the VP of infrastructure, the purchasing department, or just the backup admin that says I have a problem because I can't go buy now the agent for the database that I'm trying to buy 'cause we've already spent all this money on just the base backup platform. >> Yeah, there's really this 10 year pressure on all infrastructure pricing. Cloud, open source, is really putting pressure on that. So, David, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. We really appreciate your insights and keep up the great work. >> It was great to see you guys. Thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. It's theCUBE, we're live from New Orleans, Veeam On 2017. (relaxed electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud, Next 17. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in the Palo Alto Studios, SiliconANGLE Media, is theCUBE's new 4400 square foot studio, here in our studio, this is our sports center. I'm here with Stu Miniman, analyst at Wikibon on the team. I was at the event all day today, drove down to Palo Alto to give us the latest in-person updates, as well as, for the past two days, Stu has been at the Analyst Summit, which is Google's first analyst summit, Google Cloud. And Stu, we're going to break down day one in the books. Certainly, people starting to get onto there. After-meetups, parties, dinners, and festivities. 10,000 people came to the Google Annual Cloud Next Conference. A lot of customer conversations, not a lot of technology announcements, Stu. But we got another day tomorrow. >> John, first of all, congrats on the studio here. I mean, it's really exciting. I remember the first time I met you in Palo Alto, there was the corner in ColoSpace-- >> Cloud Air. >> A couple towards down for fries, at the (mumbles) And look at this space. Gorgeous studio. Excited to be here. Happy to do a couple videos. And I'll be in here all day tomorrow, helping to break down. >> Well, Stu, first allows us to, one, do a lot more coverage. Obviously, Google Next, you saw, was literally a blockbuster, as Diane Greene said. People were around the block, lines to get in, mass hysteria, chaos. They really couldn't scale the event, which is Google's scale, they nailed the scale software, but scaling event, no room for theCUBE. But we're pumping out videos. We did, what? 13 today. We'll do a lot more tomorrow, and get more now. So you're going to be coming in as well. But also, we had on-the-ground, cause we had phone call-ins from Akash Agarwal from SAP. We had an exclusive video with Sam Yen, who was breaking down the SAP strategic announcement with Google Cloud. And of course, we have a post going on siliconangle.com. A lot of videos up on youtube.com/siliconangle. Great commentary. And really the goal was to continue our coverage, at SiliconANGLE, theCUBE, Wikibon, in the Cloud. Obviously, we've been covering the Cloud since it's really been around. I've been covering Google since it was founded. So we have a lot history, a lot of inside baseball, certainly here in Palo Alto, where Larry Page lives in the neighborhood, friends at Google Earth. So the utmost respect for Google. But really, I mean, come on. The story, you can't put lipstick on a pig. Amazon is crushing them. And there's just no debate about that. And people trying to put that out there, wrote a post this morning, to actually try to illustrate that point. You really can't compare Google Cloud to AWS, because it's just two different animals, Stu. And my point was, "Okay, you want to compare them? "Let's compare them." And we're well briefed on the Cloud players, and you guys have the studies coming out of Wikibon. So there it is. And my post pretty much sums up the truth, which is, Google's really serious about the enterprise. Their making steps, there's some holes, there's some potential fatal flaws in how they allow customers to park their data. They have some architectural differences. But Stu, it's really a different animal. I mean, it's apples and oranges in the Cloud. I don't think it's worthy complaining, because certainly Amazon has the lead. But you have Microsoft, you have Google, you have Oracle, IBM, SAP, they're all kind of in the cluster of this, I call "NASCAR Formation", where they're all kind of jocking around, some go ahead. And it really is a race to get the table stake features done. And really, truly be serious contender for the enterprise. So you can be serious about the enterprise, and say, "Hey, I'm serious about the enterprise." But to be serious winner and leader, are two different ball games. >> And a lot to kind of break down here, John. Because first of all, some of the (mumbles) challenges, absolutely, they scaled that event really big. And kudos to them, 10,000 people, a lot of these things came together last minute. They treated the press and analysts really well. We got to sit up front. They had some good sessions. You just tweeted out, Diane Greene, in the analyst session, and in the Q&A after, absolutely nailed it. I mean, she is an icon in the industry. She's brilliant, really impressive. And she's been pulling together a great team of people that understand the enterprise. But who is Google going after, and how do they compete against so of the other guys, is really interesting to parse. Because some people were saying in the keynote, "We heard more about G Suite "than we heard about some of the Cloud features." Some of that is because they're going to do the announcements tomorrow. And you keep hearing all this G Suite stuff, and it makes me think of Microsoft, not Amazon. It makes me think of Office 365. And we've been hearing out of Amazon recently, they're trying to go after some of those business productivity applications. They're trying to go there where Microsoft is embedded. We know everybody wants to go after companies like IBM and Oracle, and their applications. Because Google has some applications, but really, their strength is been on the data. The machine the AI stuff was really interesting. Dr. Fei-Fei Li from Stanford, really good piece in the keynote there, when they hired her not that long ago. The community really perked up, and is really interesting. And everybody seems to think that this could be the secret weapon for Google. I actually asked them like, in some of the one-on-ones, "Is this the entry point? "Are most people coming for this piece, "when it's around these data challenges in the analytics, "and coming to Google." And they're like, "Well, it's part of it. "But no, we have broad play." Everything from devices through G Suite. And last year, when they did the show, it was all the Cloud. And this year, it's kind of the full enterprise suite, that they're pulling in. So there's some of that sorting out the messaging, and how do you pull all of these pieces together? As you know, when you've got a portfolio, it's like, "Oh well, I got to have a customer for G Suite." And then when the customer's up there talking about G Suite for a while, it's like, "Wait, it's--" >> Wait a minute. Is this a software? >> "What's going on?" >> Is this a sash show? Is this a workplace productivity show? Or is this a Cloud show? Again, this is what my issue is. First of all, the insight is very clear. When you start seeing G Suite, that means that they've got something else that they are either hiding or waiting to announce. But the key though, that is the head customers. That was one important thing. I pointed out in my blog post. To me, when I'm looking for it's competitive wins, and I want to parse out the G Suite, because it's easy just to lay that on, Microsoft does it with 365 of Office, Oracle does it with their stuff. And it does kind of make the numbers fuzzy a little bit. But ultimately, where's the beef on infrastructure as a service, and platform as a service? >> And John, good customers out there, Disney, Colgate, SAP as a partner, HSBC, eBay, Home Depot, which was a big announcement with Pivotal, last year, and Verizon were there. So these are companies, we all know them. Dan Greene was joking, "Disney is going to bring their magic onto our magic. "And make that work." So real enterprise use cases. They seem to have some good push-around developers. They just acquired Kaggle, which is working in some of that space. >> Apogee. >> Yeah, Apogee-- >> I think Apogee's an API company, come on. What does that relate to? It has nothing to do with the enterprise. It's an API management solution. Okay, yes. I guess it fits the stack for Cloud-Native, and for developers. I get that. But this show has to nail the enterprise, Stu. >> And John, you remember back four years ago, when we went to the re:Invent show for the first time, and it was like, they're talking to all the developers, and they haven't gotten to the enterprise. And then they over-pivoted to enterprise. And I listen to the customers that were talking and keynote today, and I said, "You know, they're talking digital transformation, "but it's not like GE and Nike getting up on stage, "being like, "'We're going to be a software company, "'and we're hiring lots--'" >> John: Moving our data center over. >> They were pulling all of over stuff, and it's like, "Oh yeah, Google's a good partner. "And we're using them--" >> But to be fair, Stu. Let's be fair, for a second. First of all, let's break down the keynotes. And then we'll get to some of the things about being fair. And I think, one, people should be fair to Diane Greene, because I think that the press and the coverage of it, looking at the media coverage, is weak. And I'll tell you why it's weak. Cause everyone has the same story as, "Oh, Google's finally serious about Cloud. "That's old news. "Diane Greene from day one says "we're serious with the Cloud." That's not the story. The story is, can they be a serious contender? That's number one. On the keynote, one, customer traction, I saw that, the slide up there. Yeah, the G Suite in there, but at least they're talking customers. Number two, the SAP news was strategic for Google. SAP now has Google Cloud platform, I mean, Google Cloud support for HANA, and also the SAP Cloud platform. And three, the Chief Data Science from AIG pointed. To me, those were the three highlights of the keynote. Each one, thematically, represents at least a positive direction for Google, big time, which is, one, customer adoption, the customer focus. Two, partnerships with SAP, and they had Disney up there. And then three, the real game changer, which is, can they change the AI machine learning, TensorFlow has a ton of traction. Intel Xeon chips now are optimized with TensorFlow. This is Google. >> TensorFlow, Kubernetes, it's really interesting. And it's interesting, John, I think if the media listened to Eric Schmidt at the end, he was talking straight to them. He's like, "Look, bullet one. "17 years ago, I told Google that "this is where we need to go. "Bullet two, 30 billion dollars "I'm investing in infrastructure. "And yes, it's real, "cause I had to sign off on all of this money. And we've been all saying for a while, "Is this another beta from Google. "Is it serious? "There's no ad revenue, what is this?" And Diane Greene, in the Q&A afterwards, somebody talked about, "Perpetual beta seems to be Google." And she's like, "Look, I want to differentiate. "We are not the consumer business. "The consumer business might kill something. "They might change something. "We're positioning, "this a Cloud that the enterprise can build on. "We will not deprecate something. "We'll support today. "We'll support the old version. "We will support you going forward." Big push for channel, go-to-market service and support, because they understand that that-- >> Yeah, but that's weak. >> For those of us that used Google for years, understand that-- >> There's no support. >> "Where do I call for Google?" Come on, no. >> Yeah, but they're very weak on that. And we broke that down with Tom Kemp earlier, from Centrify, where Google's play is very weak on the sales and marketing side. Yeah, I get the service piece. But go to Diane Greene for a second, she is an incredible, savvy enterprise executive. She knows Cloud. She moved from server to virtualization. And now she can move virtualization to Cloud. That is her playbook. And I think she's well suited to do that. And I think anyone who rushes to judgment on her keynote, given the fail of the teleprompter, I think is a little bit overstepping their bounds on that. I think it's fair to say that, she knows what she's doing. But she can only go as fast as they can go. And that is, you can't like hope that you're further along. The reality is, it takes time. Security and data are the key points. On your point you just mentioned, that's interesting. Because now the war goes on. Okay, Kubernetes, the microservices, some of the things going on in the applications side, as trends like Serverless come on, Stu, where you're looking at the containerization trend that's now gone to Kubernetes. This is the battleground. This is the ground that we've been at Dockercon, we've been at Linux, CNCF has got huge traction, the Cloud Native Compute Foundation. This is key. Now, that being said. The marketplace never panned out, Stu. And I wanted to get your analysis on this, cause you cover this. Few years ago, the world was like, "Oh, I want to be like Facebook." We've heard, "the Uber of this, and the Airbnb of that." Here's the thing. Name one company that is the Facebook of their company. It's not happening. There is no other Facebook, and there is no other Google. So run like Google, is just a good idea in principle, horizontally scalable, having all the software. But no one is like Google. No one is like Facebook, in the enterprise. So I think that Google's got to downclock their messaging. I won't say dumb down, maybe I'll just say, slow it down a little bit for the enterprise, because they care about different things. They care more about SLA than pricing. They care more about data sovereignty than the most epic architecture for data. What's your analysis? >> John, some really good points there. So there's a lot of technology, where like, "This is really cool." And Google is the biggest of it. Remember that software-defined networking we spent years talking about? Well, the first big company we heard about was Google, and they got up of stage, "We're the largest SDN deployer in the world on that." And it's like, "Great. "So if you're the enterprise, "don't deploy SDN, go to somebody else "that can deliver it for you. "If that's Google, that's great." Dockercon, the first year they had, 2014, Google got up there, talked about how they were using containers, and containers, and they spin up and spin down. Two billion containers in a week. Now, nobody else needs to spin up two billion containers a week, and do that down. But they learned from that. They build Kubernetes-- >> Well, I think that's a good leadership position. But it's leadership position to show that you got the mojo, which again, this is again, what I like about Google's strategy is, they're going to play the technology card. I think that's a good card to play. But there are some just table stakes they got to nail. One is the certifications, the security, the data. But also, the sales motions. Going into the enterprise takes time. And our advice to Diane Greene was, "Don't screw the gold Google culture. "Keep that technology leadership. "And buy somebody, "buy a company that's got a full blown sales force." >> But John, one of the critiques of Google has always been, everything they create, they create like for Google, and it's too Googley. I talked to a couple of friends, that know about AWS for a while, and when they're trying to do Google, they're like, "Boy, this is a lot tougher. "It's not as easy as what we're doing." Google says that they want to do a lot of simplicity. You touched on pricing, it's like, "Oh, we're going to make pricing "so much easier than what Amazon's doing." Amazon Reserved Instances is something that I hear a lot of negative feedback in the community on, and Google's like, "It's much simpler." But when I've talked to some people that have been using it, it's like, "Well, generally it should be cheaper, "and it should be easier. "But it's not as predictable. "And therefore, it's not speaking to what "the CFO needs to have. "I can't be getting a rebate sometime down the road. "Based on some advanced math, "I need to know what I'm going to be getting, "and how I'm going to be using it." >> And that's a good point, Stu. And this comes down to the consumability of the Cloud. I think what Amazon has done well, and this came out of many interviews today, but it was highlighted by Val Bercovici, who pointed out that, Amazon has made their service consumable by the enterprise. I think that's important. Google needs to start thinking about how enterprises want to consume Cloud, and hit those points. The other thing that Val and I teased at, was kind of some new ground, and he coined the term, or used the term, maybe he coined it, I'm not sure, empathy. Enterprise empathy. Google has developer empathy, they understand the developer community. They're rock solid on open source. Obviously, their mojo's phenomenal on technology, AI, et cetera, TensorFlow, all that stuff's great. Empathy for the enterprise, not there. And I think that's something that they're going to have to work on. And again, that's just evolution. You mentioned Amazon, our first event, developer, developer, developer. Me and Pat Gelsinger once called it the developer Cloud. Now they're truly the enterprise Cloud. It took three years for Amazon to do that. So you just can't jump to a trajectory. There's a huge amount of diseconomies of scale, Stu, to try and just be an enterprise player overnight, because, "We're Google." That's just not going to fly. And whether it's sales motions, pricing and support, security, this is hard. >> And sorting out that go-to-market, is going to take years. You see a lot of the big SIs are there. PwC, everywhere at the show. Accenture, big push at the show. We saw that a year or two ago, at the Amazon show. I talked to some friends in the channel, and they're like, "Yeah, Google's still got work to do. "They're not there." Look, Amazon has work to do on the go-to-market, and Google is still a couple-- >> I mean, Amazon's not spring chicken here. They're quietly, slowly, ramming up. But they're not in a good position with their sales force, needs to be where they want to be. Let's talk about technology now. So tomorrow we're expecting to see a bunch of stuff. And one area that I'm super excited about with Google, is if they can have their identity identified, and solidified with the mind of the enterprise, make their product consumable, change or adjust or buy a sales force, that could go out and actually sell to the enterprise, that's going to be key. But you're going to hear some cool trends that I like. And if you look at the TensorFlow, and the relationship, Intel, we're going to see Intel on stage tomorrow, coming out during one of the keynotes. And you're going to start to see the Xeon chip come out. And now you're starting to see now, the silicon piece. And this has been a data center nuisance, Stu. As we talked about with James Hamilton at Amazon, which having a hardware being optimized for software, really is the key. And what Intel's doing with Xeon, and we talked to some other people today about it, is that the Cloud is like an operating system, it's a global computer, if you want look at that. It's a mainframe, the software mainframe, as it's been called. You want a diversity of chipsets, from two cores Atom to 72 cores Xeon. And have them being used in certain cases, whether it's programmable silicon, or whether it's GPUs, having these things in use case scenarios, where the chips can accelerate the software evolution, to me is going to be the key, state of the art innovation. I think if Intel continues to get that right, companies like Google are going to crush it. Now, Amazon, they do their own. So this is going to another interesting dynamic. >> Yeah, it was actually one of the differentiating points Google's saying, is like, "Hey, you can get the Intel Skylake chip, "on Google Cloud, "probably six months before you're going to be able to "just call up your favorite OEM of choice, "and get that in there." And it's an interesting move. Because we've been covering for years, John, Google does a ton of servers. And they don't just do Intel, they've been heavily involved in the openPOWER movement, they're looking at alternatives, they're looking at low power, they're looking at from their device standpoint. They understand how to develop to all these pieces. They actually gave to the influencers, the press, the analysts, just like at Amazon, we all walked home with Echo Dot, everybody's walking home with the Google Homes. >> John: Did you get one? >> I did get one, disclaimer. Yeah, I got one. I'll be playing with it home. I figured I could have Alexa and Google talking to each other. >> Is it an evaluation unit? You have to give it back, or do you get to keep? >> No, I'm pretty sure they just let us keep that. >> John: Tainted. >> But what I'm interested to see, John, is we talk like Serverless, so I saw a ton of companies that were playing with Alexa at re:Invent, and they've been creating tons of skills. Lambda currently has the leadership out there. Google leverages Serverless in a lot of their architecture, it's what drives a lot of their analytics on the inside. Coming into the show, Google Cloud Functions is alpha. So we expect them to move that forward, but we will see with the announcements come tomorrow. But you would think if they're, try to stay that leadership though there, I actually got a statement from one of the guys that work on the Serverless, and Google believes that for functions, that whole Serverless, to really go where it needs to be, it needs to be open. Google isn't open sourcing anything this week, as far as I know. But they want to be able to move forward-- >> And they're doing great at open source. And I think one of the things, that not to rush to judgment on Google, and no one should, by the way. I mean, certainly, we put out our analysis, and we stick by that, because we know the enterprise pretty well, very well actually. So the thing that I like is that there are new use cases coming out. And we had someone who came on theCUBE here, Tarun Thakur, who's with Datos, datos.io. They're reimagining data backup and recovery in the Cloud. And when you factor in IoT, this is a paradigm shift. So I think we're going to see use cases, and this is a Google opportunity, where they can actually move the goal post a bit on the market, by enabling these no-use cases, whether it's something as, what might seem pedestrian, like backup and recovery, reimagining that is huge. That's going to take impact as the data domains of the world, and what not, that (mumbles). These new uses cases are going to evolve. And so I'm excited by that. But the key thing that came out of this, Stu, and this is where I want to get your reaction on is, Multicloud. Clearly the messaging in the industry, over the course of events that we've been covering, and highlighted today on Google Next is, Multicloud is the world we are living in. Now, you can argue that we're all in Amazon's world, but as we start developing, you're starting to see the emergence of Cloud services providers. Cloud services providers are going to have some tiering, certainly the big ones, and then you're going to have secondary partner like service providers. And Google putting G Suite in the mix, and Office 365 from Microsoft, and Oracle put in their apps in their Clouds stuff, highlights that the SaaS market is going to be very relevant. If that's the case, then why aren't we putting Salesforce in there, Adobe? They all got Clouds too. So if you believe that there's going to be specialism around Clouds, that opens up the notion that there'll be a series of Multicloud architectures. So, Stu-- >> Stu: Yeah so, I mean, John, first of all-- >> BS? Real? I mean what's going on? >> Cloud is this big broad term. From Wikibon's research standpoint, SaaS, today, is two-thirds of the public Cloud market. We spend a lot of time talking-- >> In revenue? >> In revenue. Revenue standpoint. So, absolutely, Salesforce, Oracle, Infor, Microsoft, all up there, big dollars. If we look at the much smaller part of the world, that infrastructures a service, that's where we're spending a lot of time-- >> And platforms a service, which Gartner kind of bundles in, that's how Gartner looks at it. >> It's interesting. This year, we're saying PaaS as a category goes away. It's either SaaS plus, I'm sorry, it's SaaS minus, or infrastructure plus. So look at what Salesforce did with Heroku. Look at what company service now are doing. Yes, there are solutions-- >> Why is PaaS going away? What's the thesis? What's the premise of that for Wikibon research? >> If we look at what PaaS, the idea was it tied to languages, things like portability. There are other tools and solutions that are going to be able to help there. Look at, Docker came out of a PaaS company, DockCloud. There's a really good article from one of the Docker guys talking about the history of this, and you and I are going to be at Dockercon. John, from what I hear, we're going to spending a lot of time talking about Kubernetes, at Dockercon. OpenStack Summit is going to be talking a lot about-- >> By the way, Kubernetes originated at Google. Another cool thing from Google. >> All right, so the PaaS as a market, even if you talk to the Cloud Foundry people, the OpenShift people. The term we got, had a year ago was PaaS is Passe, the nice piffy line. So it really feeds into, because, just some of these categorizations are what we, as industry watchers have a put in there, when you talk to Google, it's like, "Well, why are they talking about G Suite, "and Google Cloud, and even some of their pieces?" They're like, "Well, this is our bundle "that we put together." When you talk to Microsoft, and talk about Cloud, it's like, "Oh, well." They're including Skype in that. They're including Office 365. I'm like, "Well, that's our productivity. "That's a part of our overall solutions." Amazon, even when you talk to Amazon, it's not like that there are two separate companies. There's not AWS and Amazon, it's one company-- >> Are we living in a world of alternative facts, Stu? I mean, Larry Ellison coined the term "Fake Cloud", talking about Salesforce. I'm not going to say Google's a fake Cloud, cause certainly it's not. But when you start blending in these numbers, it's kind of shifting the narrative to having alternative facts, certainly skewing the revenue numbers. To your point, if PaaS goes away because the SaaS minuses that lower down the stack. Cause if you have microservices and orchestration, it kind of thins that out. So one, is that the case? And then I saw your tweet with Sam Ramji, he formally ran Cloud Foundry, he's now at Google, knows his stuff, ex-Microsoft guy, very strong dude. What's he take? What's his take on this? Did you get a chance to chat with Sam at all? >> Yeah, I mean, it was interesting, because Sam, right, coming from Cloud Foundry said, what Cloud Foundry was one of the things they were trying to do, was to really standardize across the clouds. And of course, little bias that he works at Google now. But he's like, "We couldn't do that with Google, "cause Google had really cool features. And of course, when you put an abstraction layer on, can I actually do all the stuff? And he's like, "We couldn't do that." Sure, if you talked to Amazon, they'll be like, "Come on. "Thousand features we announced last year, "look at all the things we have. "It's not like you can just take all of our pieces, "and use it there." Yes, at the VM, or container, or application microservices layer, we can sit on a lot of different Clouds, public or private. But as we said today, the Cloud is not a utility. John, you've been in this discussion for years. So we've talked about, "Oh, I'm just going "to have a Cloud broker, "and go out in a service." It's like, this is not, I'm not buying from Domino's and Pizza Hut, and it's pepperoni pizza's a pepperoni pizza. >> Well, Multicloud, and moving workloads across Clouds, is a different challenge. Certainly, I might have to some stuff here, maybe put some data and edge my bets on leveraging other services. But this brings up the total cost of ownership problem. If you look at the trajectory, say OpenStack, just as a random example. OpenStack, at one point, had a great promise. Now it's kind of niched down into infrastructural service. I know you're going to be covering that summit in Boston. And it's going to be interesting to see how that is. But the word in the community is, that OpenStack is struggling because of the employment challenges involved with it. So to me, Google has an opportunity to avoid that OpenStack kind of concept. Because, talking about Sam Ramji, open source is the wildcard in all of this. So if you look at a open source, and you believe that that PaaS layer's thinning down, to infrastructure and SaaS, then you got to look at the open source community, and that's going to be a key area, that we're certainly watching, and we've identified, and we've mentioned it before. But here's my point. If you look at the total cost of ownership. If I'm a customer, Stu, I'm like, "Okay, if I'm just going to move to the Cloud, "I need to rely and lean on my partner, "my vendor, my supplier, "Amazon, or Google, or Microsoft, whoever, "to provide really excellent manageability. "Really excellent security. "Because if I don't, I have to build it myself." So it's becoming the shark fin, the tip of the iceberg, that you don't see the hidden cost, because I would much rather have more confidence in manageability that I can control. But I don't want to have to spend resources building manageability software, if the stuff doesn't work. So there's the issue about Multicloud that I'm watching. Your thoughts? Or is that too nuance? >> No, no. First of all, one of the things is that if I look at what I was doing on premises, before versus public Cloud, yes, there are some hidden costs, but in general I think we understand them a little bit better in public Cloud. And public Cloud gives us a chance to do a do-over for this like security, which most of us understand that security is good in public Cloud. Now, security overall, lots of work to do, challenges, not security isn't the same across all of them. We've talked to plenty of companies that are helping to give security across Clouds. But this Multicloud discussion is still something that is sorting out. Portability is not simple, but it's where we're going. Today, most companies, if I'm not really small, have some on-prem pieces. And they're leveraging at least one Cloud. They're usually using many SaaS providers. And there's this whole giant ecosystem, John, around the Cloud management platforms. Because managing across lots of environment, is definitely a challenge. There's so many companies that are trying to solve them. And there's just dozens and dozens of these companies, attacking everything from licensing, to the data management, to everything else. So there's a lot of challenges there, especially the larger you get as a company, the more things you need to worry about. >> So Stu, just to wrap up our segment. Great day. Wanted to just get some color on the day. And highlighting some parody from the web is always great. Just got a tweet from fake Andy Jassy, which we know really isn't Andy Jassy. But Cloud Opinion was very active to the hashtag, that Twitter handle Cloud Opinion. But he had a medium post, and he said, "Eric Schmidt was boring. "Diane Greene was horrible. "Unfortunately, day one keynote were missed opportunity, "that left several gaps, "failed to portray Google's vision for Google Cloud. "They could've done the following, A, "explain the vision for the Cloud, "where do they see Google Cloud going. "Identify customer use cases that show samples "and customer adoption." They kind of did that. So discount that. My favorite line is this one, "Differentiate from other Cloud providers. "'We're Google damn it,' isn't working so well. "Neither is indirect shots as S3 downtime, "didn't work either as well as either. "Where is the customer's journey going? "And what's the most compelling thing for customers?" This phrase, "We're Google damn it," has kind of speaks to the arrogance of Google. And we've seen this before, and always say, Google doesn't have a bad arrogance. I like the Google mojo. I think the technology, they run hard. But they can sometimes, like, "Customer support, self-service." You can't really get someone on the phone. It's hard to replies from Google. >> "Check out YouTube video. "We own that too, don't you know that?" >> So this is a perception of Google. This could fly in the face, and that arrogance might blow up in the enterprise, cause the enterprises aren't that sophisticated to kind of recognize the mojo from Google. And they, "Hey, I want support. "I want SLAs. "I want security. "I want data flexibility." What's your thoughts? >> So Cloud Opinion wrote, I thought a really thoughtful piece leading up to it, that I didn't think was satire. Some of what he's putting in there, is definitely satire-- >> John: Some of it's kind of true though. >> From the keynote. So I did not get a sense in the meetings I've been in, or watching the keynote, that they were arrogant. They're growing. They're learning. They're working with the community. They're reaching out. They're doing all the things we think they need to do. They're listening really well. So, yes, I think the keynote was a missed opportunity overall. >> John: But we've got to give, point out that was a teleprompter fail. >> That was a piece of it. But even, we felt with a little bit of polish, some of the interactions would've been a little bit smoother. I thought Eric Schmidt's piece was really good at end. As I said before, the AI discussion was enlightening, and really solid. So I don't give it a glowing rating, but I'm not ready to trash it. And tomorrow is when they're going to have the announcements. And overall, there's good buzz going at the show. There's lots going on. >> Give 'em a letter. Letter grade. >> For the keynote? Or the show in general? >> So far, your experience as an analyst, cause you had the, again, to give them credit, I agree with you. First analyst conference. They are listening. And the slideshow, you see what they're doing. They're being humble. They didn't take any real direct shots at its competitors. They were really humble. >> And that is something that I think they could've helped to focus one something that differentiated a little bit. Something we had to pry out of them in some of the one-on-ones, is like, "Come on, what are you doing?" And they're like, "We're winning 50, 60% of our competitive deals." And I'm like, "Explain to us why. "Because we're not hearing it. "You're not articulating it as well." It's not like we expect them, it's like, "Oh wait, they told us we're arrogant. "Maybe we should be super humble now." It's kind of-- >> I don't think they're thinking that way. I think my impression of Google, knowing the companies history, and the people involved there, and Diane Greene in particular, as you know from the Vmware days. She's kind of humble, but she's not. She's tough. And she's good. And she's smart. >> And she's bringing in really good people. And by the way, John, I want to give them kudos, really supported International Women's Day, I love the, Fei-Fei got up, and she talked about her, one of her compatriots, another badass woman up there, that got like one of the big moments of the keynote there. >> John: Did they have a woman in tech panel? >> Not at this event. Because Diane was there, Fei-Fei was there. They had some women just participating in it. I know they had some other events going on throughout the show. >> I agree, and I think it's awesome. I think one of the things that I like about Google, and again, I'll reiterate, is that apples and oranges relative to the other Cloud guys. But remember, just because Amazon's lead is so far ahead, that you still have this jocking of position between the other players. And they're all taking the same pattern. Again, this is the same thing we talked about at our other analysis, is that, certainly at re:Invent, we talked about the same thing. Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, and now Google, are differentiating with their apps. And I think that's smart. I don't think that's a bad move at all. It does telegraph a little bit, that maybe they got, they could add more to show, we'll see tomorrow. But I don't think that's a bad thing. Again, it does make the numbers a little messy, in terms of what's what. But I think it's totally cool for a company to differentiate on their offering. >> Yeah, definitely. And John, as you said, Google is playing their game. They're not trying to play Amazon's game. They're not, Oracle's thing was what? You kind of get a little bit of the lead, and kind of just make sure how you attack and stay ahead of what they're doing, going to the boating analogy there. But Google knows where they're going, moving themselves forward. That they've made some really good progress. The amount of people, the amount of news they have. Are they moving fast enough to really try to close a little bit on the Amazon's world, is something I want to come out of the show with. Where are customers going? >> And it's a turbulent time too. As Peter Burris, our own Peter Buriss at Wikibon, would say, is a turbulent time. And it's going to really put everyone on notice. There's a lot to cover, if you're an analyst. I mean, you have compute, network storage, services. I mean, there's a slew of stuff that's being rolled out, either in table stakes for existing enterprises, plus new stuff. I mean, I didn't hear a lot of IoT today. Did you hear much IoT? Is there IoT coming to you at the briefing? >> Come on. I'm sure there's some service coming out from Google, that'll help us be able to process all this stuff much faster. They'll just replace this with-- >> So you're in the analyst meeting. I know you're under NDA, but is there IoT coming tomorrow? >> IoT was a term that I heard this week, yes. >> So all right, that's a good confirmation. Stu cannot confirm or deny that IoT will be there tomorrow. Okay, well, that's going to end day one of coverage, here in our studio. As you know, we got a new studio. We have folks on the ground. You're going to start to see a new CUBE formula, where we have in-studio coverage, and out in the field, like our normal CUBE, our "game day", as we say. Getting all the signal, extracting it from that noise out there, for you. Again, in-studio allows us to get more content. We bring our friends in. We want to get the content. We're going to get the summaries, and share that with you. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, day one coverage. We'll see you tomorrow for another full day of special coverage, sponsored by Intel, two days of coverage. I want to thank Intel for supporting our editorial mission. We love the enterprise, we love Cloud, we love big data, love Smart Cities, autonomous vehicles, and the changing landscape in tech. We'll be back tomorrow, thanks for watching.