>>Mm. >>Amdocs is a leader in providing software and services to some key industries, like telecommunications, media and financial services. In our next session, >>we >>welcome Cedric Jay Gould, who is the head of technical product at Amdocs. And we'll learn about Amdocs modernisation journey and how it added value for their end customers. Cedric. Welcome. >>Welcome. Good. >>Thank you. So describe your modern application, your portfolio, and you know what you're delivering for customers. >>So home dogs is B s s S s players who we are providing a food digital suite for customers. Uh, our customers are communication service providers, which are have to deploy a full digital sweets customer experience. Um, we're for the full os BSS, BSS tax. So, actually, Amdocs is one of the leader in this kind of digital transformation. >>So of course you talk about this as and BS. I mean, you're talking about some really hardened, uh, stacks, right? Uh, telco industry. Uh, say what you want about it, but, boy, the phone works when you dial it. So So you've got this sort of a decades old, you know, platform that you guys have been evolving over the over the years. described this modernisation journey and and the role that couch base played. What value does this offer This modernisation offer to your organisation. And where does Couch based fit? >>Yeah, exactly the same. So that so. Basically what, uh, all solution is You know, it's a broad for you of a large number of components which have to deal with funds, uh, experience of the user and from and then dealing all the, uh, activation of the services in the network in order to deliver a solution, Uh, your services, like mobile services or communication services to, uh, Susan users. So we have a full suites, which, uh, was previously based on, you know, on technology is based on the oracle with web logic and things like that. And what we did is that we do a modernisation of, uh, this something, like, six years ago. A bit more than six years ago. We start to modernisation and transformation of our product into a creative solution. Collaborative solutions. So, uh, and when we did that, we start with Coach base as a partner, uh, to provide the nominative database. So we are actually delivery. We have a guarantee of more than 8000 people developing this product. It's a product which is used by more than 300 customers. Uh, so So it's it's real product that needs to be very flexible. That needs to address many kind of use cases from, uh, Telco or customers, which RCs PS usually till 0 to 1 telco. So we what we wanted to build is a food creative solution that can work on any cloud, then can can skill very, very easily and can address multiple use cases. Okay, And that's why, Coach Base, when we selected Coach Basit, it matched a lot of requirements and criteria as we had. And when we decided to modernise our product, we decided to work with >>you. So you had a lot of experience and and legacy with Oracle and Web logic. I'm curious just to follow up. Why didn't you stay with Oracle? You mentioned? Gotta run any cloud. You gotta be flexible. But could you could you double click on what Couch based delivered from a requirement standpoint, that was such a good fit? >>Well, there's there's a good fit with technology that such as, uh, coach basis. First it's a noise school detonates, right? So it's in terms of performance for some of the youth case that we have. It's very important to have, you know, technology which are are done and optimised for the noise secure use cases. That's the first thing. The second thing as I mentioned the scalability, the fact that you can, almost indefinitely infinitely you can increase the size of your cluster. You can have more, uh, servers and and and And this will skill, you know, very rapidly. And also what we're very interesting to have from coach bases the ability to have something which can be replicated across multiple sites. So with visual technology from coach base, which enable to build, you know, very modern architecture with deployment on multiple agents to have disaster recovery, active, active sites, you know, things like that which are very becoming like the main requirement for more customers now. >>Okay, so I'm presuming there were parts of your application portfolio that you weren't gonna touch and throw away that you had to collect or connect the new with the old. That's always, you know, you know, a challenge. I'm wondering what advice you give to an organisation. That's kind of investing in a similar path, trying to deliver the best digital experiences to customers. You know what? What would you say are the modernisation you gotta have must have, whether it's architecture, internal culture, what are some of those items? >>So so that yes, you're right. I think the integration with the legacy systems is actually, you know, very, very important topic in all domain in the domain. But we we made a very, uh, will see drastic choice or brave choice choice. When, uh, 60 years from now, when we decided to reformat to re platforms are completely or portfolio. Okay, So we we changed more than 95% of our portfolio and 95% of the portfolio today, Arklow native. Which means that they can be deployed on any cloud that actually, they are fully scalable and and and still, we did this transformation. Now, when we do the digital transformation of the, uh, customer system, then we need to integrate with legacy systems, and we need to help our customers to migrate from the legacy systems to creative solutions and doing so, it's important to have in the database domain. It's very important to have a solution which is very flexible in terms of, uh, what kind of data I can manage. And I can, as I said, skill easily, for sure. But also, it's sexual. Okay, Because when you are moving the data from a legacy system or record based or whatever to, uh, another type of, uh, database, you want to be sure that you are you can do it securely, and you're you're not, uh, compromising in any sense, Uh, in terms of security scalability, uh, etcetera. Right. So So, um, in this case, I mean, I will say And then in this opportunities journey, uh, this was very, very, very, very important component in, uh, you know, in our strategy, for all the reasons I mentioned right, it's very coordinative. It's scalable, It's secure. Uh, it's another product, uh, grade. So? So that's that's why it really is. So there's there's a chest back to you. >>You know, this notion that 90 per you really re platform 90% of your portfolio and made a cloud native. That's that's a It's a brave move because a lot of companies do that that I've talked to. They will build an abstraction layer and microservices and make that piece cloud native and then have that kind of overlay. You decided not to do that. Why is that? Was that for performance reasons? You were worried about just bringing along technical debt. I mean, that really must have been an interesting discussion internally in your company. >>Yeah, it's true. I mean, the main motivation, the main driver was business flexibility. Because now we live in a world where our customers, what they need is to be able to test the new feature quickly. And they need to be able to scale the system in a matter of hours. Okay, so we are not in a domain anymore. Where you you when you have to upgrade something, you need to take a few days. It needs to be done in a very, very quickly. And the only way to achieve those, uh, requirements business requirements is to be creative. It's to build microservices and to really realise one of those per cent of, uh, micro services architecture because this is the only way you will have the business flexibility. You will be able to have a resilient architecture. Uh, you know, you can, uh you can deploy this with full high availability across multiple zones, multiple regions and feeling that so, uh, any modern architecture today that that is competing with us, Actually, a micro services based architecture. There is no other way to achieve, uh to to to meet the requirement of the market today, and especially when five g is coming, things will become much more complex. Will become much more, uh, distributed. Uh, you cannot work anymore with the model it architecture. And again, I think the database is nowhere different. Needs to follow the same kind of architecture needs to follow the same principles. So that's that's why am I mean another another point about Yeah, >>So if I If I summarised, it sounds like your top three requirements would be flexibility, which you're getting from the cloud native and microservices piece the scale and the security. Is that right? That I get that right? The three top >>That's right. And the resilience as well. I mean the fact that now you know, with micro services architecture, if one of the system is done, he knows how to self to restart it himself. Right itself. Sorry. So So that's this kind of architecture that we built. It's an architecture which can be resilient in a sense that it can sense itself, and it can ensure full availability. And if something is going down, is not working properly, then on some kind of mechanisms will happen in order to go back to a stable state. >>Yeah. So you've got that automation in there. So you don't doesn't require the labour that it might have 10 years ago. So you're obviously embracing cloud native microservices. So you're on that jury. I'm curious. What are you doing with that? You're you're freeing up. You guys used to bring in lab coats and dig in and figure out what's wrong or restart the system. Where are you in your journey, and how are you? Sort of reallocating those resources. And where do you see that going? >>Yeah, Okay, so that's that's a very good point. Because actually, we when we build this new system, which is unable to do, you know, to self heal himself, right? Uh, actually, the question was more about how we can improve the system, even know how we can be sure that, uh, you know, issues that we we any issues which we are we are facing will not happen again. Well, not actual again. Okay. And this is a, uh, principle. Okay, Practise that we have now people are walking on automation. They're building automation around all these recovery procedures about, uh, fixing. So they're not actually digging into the application now anymore into the system, they learn how the system is walking and buildings all the right automation task to ensure that the system is constantly, constantly resilient. Alright, so that's the necessary practises organisation is now built around. You know, this kind of this approach developed computer develops being fully a geologically having sa reorganisation SRE oriented organisation. And, uh and that's the only way you know you can reach very high, uh, in terms of availability. >>So the big problem that your traditional telco customers have is the amount of data that they're servicing going through the roof and the cost per bit is sinking like that. And you have all the over the top providers coming in creating these customer experiences with modern applications and they've owned the customer data. You mentioned five g. So I'm interested in what the future of modern apps looks like for Amdocs and your customers because five G gives your traditional telco customers the ability if they can have these flexible systems that you're providing to now have better relationships with customers and actually kind of reclaim, you know, some of that that value that they've lost to a lot of competitors, your thoughts on the future. >>So first, you know, technically speaking, we we we will have two challenges. One is about data, and other one is about distribution of the work. Okay, because when we are speaking about five g, we're speaking about the age. We're speaking about the fact that an application may be located very closely to the network because it needs to be to to achieve, you know, to to deliver a very short latency, and, uh and this application can move. Okay, so you you you you will have to be able to distribute completely your your solutions. Okay. And that's why we are working closely with, uh, club providers at the US as you Google and because we we need to be sure that the applications of the systems that we are building will be able to distribute the application as close as possible to the end users. Okay, so that's that's one of the key challenges. Which means that the application is to be very possible and he'd be very scalable, and then it needs to be able to move very quickly from one place to another. That's really what is what What, what? What is happening now and what will become, uh, with five G? The other challenge is behind the communication of all these components is really the data, because now we will capture more and more that are coming from the different systems. And I'm not speaking only about the consequence the customer that are who they are, what they what they like and what they want to do, etcetera. And speaking also about, uh, monitoring that of the systems. Okay, so we will generate a lot of information and this this information needs to be traded very quickly, needs to be stored in very large data lake, and we need to have extraction and manipulation of the data very, very quickly to to give the right information to the applications. Um, in this case, okay, it's very important to have application to have databases that can as I said, skill very quickly. But also we'll be able to have very ideal city note, you know, sense that they with a certain amount of memory or sentiment of storage, you can store a lot of data. And this is where we are always, you know, checking what is the best technologies. And so far, not coach bases, technologies that we're using for for stalking, storing all the data. Because because it's it's a ratio in terms of, uh, performance on the number of data you can store, Uh is very high. Okay, so that's that's another challenge that we're addressing. Of course, God is not the only solution, but it's another another one. >>Excellent. Okay, we're gonna leave it there. Cedric, Thanks so much. A great storey and really appreciate your insights. >>You're welcome. Thank you very much. >>Okay, that's it for today. I hope you've enjoyed the application. Modernisation summit made possible by Couch Base. We shared some fresh survey data and got the perspectives of three expert analysts. We got an outstanding roadmap from Ravi Meyer. Um, who's the CEO of Couch base? And of course, we got the customer angle from Cedric. So look, Maybe you're an organisation going through a modernisation initiative. And if you're thinking about what the future of applications looks like cheque out couch. Based on the road this summer, the application modernisation summit is hitting the road traversing North America and Europe. Find out where they will be where they will be near you by visiting couch based dot com slash roadshow. Ravi is gonna be there along with other thought leaders and peers who will be sharing learnings and best practises on how to modernise now and for the future. And you'll get a chance to interact with some of those piers, something that everyone I know is looking forward to. This is Day Volonte. Thanks for joining us today. And thanks for watching the Cube. Mhm. Yeah. Mm, yeah.

Locke from Las Vegas X the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Vinum care along with its ecosystem partners we're back in Las Vegas everybody this is day one of AWS reinvent 2019 and you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise hump day Volante with my co-host Justin Warren Linden Lucas is here as the CMO of cohesively great to see you again Joe's rockin it's hoppin your boots packed we were just over there bright green as always so we stand out amongst to see if what is it 65,000 folks here this year 5,000 yeah so give us the update what's happening with a kahin City you guys are rocking how's business this is great we have fully transitioned to be a software company we've had a hundred percent year-over-year growth in our software business customers are looking to cohesively for data management and especially customers here at reinvent we're doing a lot with the cloud AWS has grown 20x for us here over year in terms of our our growth with them and we have an exciting new announcement here around how cohesive a is now validated to protect and backup workloads on AWS outposts one of the announcements this morning great so that mean that to me that's I always ask how you gonna back this up you know and it really didn't have a good answer so congratulations on that but also they're gonna bring outposts to the edge we saw the 5g announcement and so that's something that people have been side I think struggling with it because they know a lot of data is going to remain at the edge you've got to protect it act on it in real time so so talk about the engineering that went into that it's you know usually these things require some intense engineering on both sides unless it's a Barney deal this is a Barney deal no all right so yeah a lot of engineers we have a fine fine group of engineers at cohesively collaborating with AWS but it really starts at the heart of it with what our founder mode Aaron the distributed file system we call it span FS and it spans from core to cloud to edge and so you brought up the outpost edge and I'm sure that we'll be able to span that way but we also span today and I think in this world and it was talked about in the keynote is so important hybrid from core to the AWS cloud right because so many organizations have a lot on premises still and they are working to figure out how to get it to AWS easily and simply and then keep the whole thing protected so you guys are pretty aligned with AWS on definitions I think but let me just test that so Andy Jesse would say and I think he said this publicly we consider multi-cloud multiple public clouds I'm not sure he used that word multi cloud but you know what he's talking about and then we consider anything on Prem has to be hybrid and I think you guys use that same sort of and I think for where cohesively serves which is mid-sized enterprise on up to some of the largest global companies and public sector organizations we see a lot of use of hybrid cohesive a also runs natively in the cloud so we run natively in AWS and there's a lot of new cloud native applications but we also want to support what customers are doing and that's hybrid for sure so the other follow-up I have on that is the notion of data management you guys you don't it's not just back up its data management I want to understand how much of that is good marketing talking to the CMO versus sort of substance that the customers actually take advantage of so what do you mean by data management it's a great question and I'm going to say yes to the good marketing too but in all seriousness so what is what is data management and we have the you know the red spot is say we're redefining it and and how do we back that up we think of data management of course as you've got a store protect manage that data but now in today's world that is simply not enough it has to be recoverable and available when you want because backup as an insurance policy that doesn't work doesn't do anyone good but more than that we went beyond that and we're looking at how do customers both protect against cyber risks as well as gain insights from their data and when we talk about redefining data management we're talking about rethinking how you get those insights out of your data or protect against risks on the platform in place so applications run in place on the cohesive edata platform and I think Andy talked about that this morning too right it's difficult in these today's ever increasing amounts of data how do you have customers ship petabytes of data around easily it's not scalable for them or operationally cost-effective so we're talking about letting them gain those insights or protect against those risks in place yeah you did mention that bringing the compute to the data instead of the other way around which has been a long a problem for a long long time and that's that's something that I'm keen to understand a bit about how Co he said he's doing something differently because this has been a promise for quite some time where we've been backing up systems and putting all of this data into it into a big backup pool that sort of just sits there and getting a bit annoyed that we're spending all this money for something which is sitting there just being an insurance policy so we want to do more with this data and that's always been the promise and people have had a go at it a few times but no one's really been very successful but it sounds like cohesive is actually finally maybe cracked it so what is it that you're doing that allows us to finally happen well we like to think so so MOA Daren our founder was formerly the CTO of new tonics often called the father of hyperconvergence as well as at Google invented one of the first web scale file systems out there so underpinning all of this and how do we do this is a true web-scale file system it's his third generation web-scale file system which has a number of really unique properties so in terms of your specific question around reusing that data is providing zero cost clones and copies that enable that reuse of that data whether that be for developers or whether that be for someone doing some analytics so and that of course just like because we're Software Defined is running on white box hardware from us but also certified units from Cisco Dell also HPE and others to come so I was gonna mention that the advantage of software is that you can have that same experience wherever you can deploy the software so I don't just have to buy an appliance and have it sit in my datacenter I can actually well I like that but I would actually like to have that run in AWS and as you mentioned you can now run that both in AWS and I could run it on side on an AWS outpost so I can get both the on-site experience and the AWS experience at the same time as well as the cohesive experience yes a lot of experiences all the one well we want the customer of course to look at it from their their vantage point but yes so two points their software platform so it's a software-defined platform and part of this from not just a technology point of view but from that customer experience point of view is yes you can run that software on-premises in a cloud in a virtual environment and from a business model point of view one license we don't care you choose how you want a deployment from it a view point of view we provide one manageable one management view helios of it but that's one way to view everything managed under cohesively of course it's not going to get in the way of the Amazon tools so simple to manage and also simple to consume from the transaction perspective but but so simplicity big theme what what else that customers really excited about what do they tell you well a big theme here for us and one of the ways that we see customers getting more value out of their data and their Amazon investment we introduced an application running on the cohesive platform called run book and run book allows very simple migrations from your on-premise environment to AWS ec2 and so that's been something that's been really popular in fact surprised us a little bit it's the first step right now it's a migration but we'll be adding capability to it for full orchestration for either dr scenarios or true dr and it's so simple it's dragon top drop so that engineering team has made this really simple to do so teams can easily figure out how am I going to move my applications to the cloud and in what order am I going to bring them up again in a really simple drag-and-drop way what about tearing you know when I go by your booth I see it's got some capabilities there I'm interested in how you were you pick up or where where you pick up where Amazon leaves off with what they've announced help us understand that great question and we did thank you for for mentioning bring new support in for deep glacier so cohesive these support steering to all the different Amazon tiers so we've always had automated policies that you can set it as an administrator and decide hey I've done a backup on Prem and after 30 days or whatever your time frame is I'm going to move that up to AWS got a lot of customers doing that our customer AutoNation that's one of their use cases we also support the ability for you to use cohesively to change which tier you want to store in on Amazon in an intelligent way and so that's an area that I think we complement Amazon so essentially if I understand it you'll you'll manager this near the superset if the customer wants that and then Amazon you plug into what Amazon does and they'll optimize on their end you could take advantage of that that's transparent to the customer that's right possible because we're a modern architecture with native s3 and so we can plug right in to what customers want to do with Amazon so okay let's dig it to that what means modern well how do you guys define mod we define modern as design principles and philosophy born in the cloud native world right so unlike some of the legacy architectures that literally were invented ten or so years ago with before we had reinvent Co he city was built with native s3 and uniquely that support for the enterprise modalities of NFS and SMB and allowing at that file system level people to move their data back and forth between those two environments but with a very simple user interface on top of that that provides the backup the archive dr the types of capabilities or use cases that customers want with their most important asset their data yeah go ahead please transformations been a bit of a theme of the show certainly two of day one and Co hazily is transformed itself into a purely software company as you've mentioned what what's next what do you see happening for Co hey city and with customers how are they going to be both transforming themselves together into the future yeah great question and I like to use that word carefully because I think as a marketer it can be little over you know used yeah but if it's seriously what I see I think we're on a 10 15 year journey all of us to transform our businesses to take advantage of data because it's clear now I think to most if you don't you will be left behind and it's only a matter of time and so the hard part is I talked to CIOs and other IT leaders is well how do I get a handle on that data right and cohesive provides an incredible platform to simplify that management storage protection of that data so you can take advantage of some of the other really cool applications and vendors that are here how we continue to transform and how I see customers transforming is that promise of bringing compute to the data I think we're in the super early days but if I've got all of my data accessible and visible to me now what kinds of insights can I gain from it Splunk runs on the cohesive a platform as another exhibitor here but also how can I prevent risk how can I ensure that I'm compliant with regulations and I think there's a lot of work to be done both at cohesively and developing out those new applications as well as with our customers taking advantage of it we could actually pushing around the just at being an Amazon partner so you seem pretty happy business is growing you're the leading if not one of the leading growth partners of Amazon that's cool but a lot of people question Amazon in terms of you know them being fearful that Amazon's gonna eat their lunch we asked and Jesse about that and the in the analyst session and basically his answer was look at these markets are so huge and and I think as well I'd add to that you've got to keep innovating now my specific question is Amazon does some backup stuff it's not nearly as functional as your and other you know backup software data management suppliers but what's your perspective on that obviously it's it's good its growth now you guys think about that you just kind of keep putting the pedal to the metal actually I think I'd agree with him I've never had the pleasure of meeting him in person but you know I think all businesses have to keep their pedal to the metal very innovation and we certainly do but this is a massive market and a massive transformation and cohesive helps enterprise customers of all sizes and types and most of them are struggling with today in the early stages how to get control of their data how to manage it know what they have and I think they feel that that is both a problem within the cloud but also on-premises and that's a very large market for us and I think for Amazon as well so we're super happy to be partners with Amazon a rising tide lifts all boats as I often like to say and I think that's going to remain true for a long time yeah I mean I think you know a lot of ways you just got to create in this market and the competition will take care of itself if you pay attention to customers and they tell you what they're interested in and you respond to that you tend to do pretty well despite the disruptions that might be going around view in the market at least that's what I think a big part of our philosophy is when asked a question about from a CML perspective in this data world he talked about there we run this decade-long transformation to put data at the core of our business how do you as a CMO put data at the core of of your business oh my gosh so the first thing I do is I'm asking and working with our engineering team because any modern business and modern CMO should be getting data about their customers and what they're doing with their product directly into the marketing intelligence and so that's an area that I'm really interested in and I press so as an internal customer to our head of engineering I am trying my best because the technology around me and marketing is changing so rapidly to absorb that and understand that and I think pay attention to my own advice and try not to date my customer for the first time 50 times as maybe many of us have experienced as consumers and use that data as best as I can to know how to address a customer's issue or problem when they're ready and the technology around it is continually improving and so it makes it really exciting to be in marketing and to be a marketing leader right now you actually pulling metadata out of your software to understand how customers are using your product is that right you can see some and there I have a long list into engineering on Oh imagine if we could I would like to know and hopefully not in a creepy way but in a way of serving the customer and making them aware of new capabilities I'll tell you one of the common things between cohesively and Amazon customers that I hear is that the pace of innovation is very high we put out four hundred plus new features last calendar year so more than they feature a day and that's the that's the God's honest truth I've heard the same thing from Amazon customers they struggle with understanding all the rich capability that's coming so with data if we can hone in a little bit and say you may be interested in this based on what we know similar to perhaps the shopping experience that we have I think that's helpful to customers because if I can narrow it in I don't have time as a consumer to search through everything and I think in business and in IT the same holds true so yes we're trying to do more of that yeah if you can use data to match my needs as a customer and it maybe even recommend things that are going to help my business I'm going to be appreciative of that as long as we you don't recommend that I start a couch collection because I brought happen to buy one couch which I'm sure we've all had that experience so it is important to get it right and I like that you brought up that not to do it in a creepy way but understanding that customers do find this valuable we find with our own consulting clients and our analyst clients talking to them that a lot of them trust vendors like cohesively with their data and you've built that trust because you you you've been able to show that you can be trusted over a long period of time so I think as long as you continue to do that customers are quite happy for you to start exploring this because they know that they're going to get a better result at the end of it as you mentioned I was like I'll get a good recommendation if you're actually serving me and making my business work better of course I'm going to want to do that and I think you earned that trust every day yes so what should we be looking for 2024 he city milestones things you want to share with us well we look forward to continued you know significant growth we're over 1,300 customers now globally and we see continued massive growth in the cloud I'm sure as many here are experiencing and just really continuing to serve our customers I think that's what we keep our eye focused on be humble keep learning it's a mantra from mowett and that's what we're gonna keep doing and and growing the business and helping our customers with that well it's been fun watching you guys grow the ascendancy of cohesive you kind of matching in with cloud and in hybrid Lynne thanks so much for coming on the Qubo as a pleasure thank you guys it's been great to be here as always all right keep it right there everybody look back with our next guest Dave Volante for Justin Warren you're watching the cube from reinvent 2019 we'll be right back [Music]

(dramatic music) >> Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE, covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live at IBM Think 2019. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We're in San Francisco this year at the newly rejuved Moscone Center. Welcoming to theCUBE for the first time, Jozef de Vries, Director of IBM Cloud Databases. Jozef, it's great to have you on the program. >> Thank you very much, great to be here, great to be here. >> So as we were talking before we went live, this is, I was asking what you're excited about for this year's IBM Think. >> Yeah. >> Only the second annual IBM Think. >> Right. >> This big merger of a number of shows. >> Sure, you're right. >> Day minus one, team minus one, >> Yeah. >> everything really kicks off tomorrow. Talk to us about some of the things that you're working on. You've been at IBM for a long time. >> Mmm hmm. >> But cloud managed databases, let's talk value there for the customers. >> Yeah, definitely. Cloud managed databases really, at its core, it's about simplifying adoption of cloud provided services and reducing the capital expense that comes along with developing applications. Fundamentally what we're trying to do is abstract the overhead that is associated with running your own systems. Whether it's the infrastructure management, whether it's the network management, whether it's the configuration and deployment of you databases. Our collection of services really is about streamlining time to value of accessing and building against your databases. So we are really focused on is allowing the developer to focus on their business critical applications, their objectives, and really what they're paid for. They're paid to build applications, not paid to maintain systems. When we talk about the CIO office, the CTO office, they are looking at cost, they're looking at ways to reduce overall expenditures. And what we're able to provide with cloud managed databases is the ability not to have to staff an IT team, not to have to maintain and pay for infrastructure, not have to procure licenses, what have you, everything that goes into standing up the managing those systems yourself, we provide that and we provide the consumption based methods. So you basically pay for what you use, and we have various ways in which you can interact with your databases and the charges that are associated with that. But it really is again about alleviating all of that overhead and that expense that is associated with running systems yourself. >> 15 years ago, you're back to, before you started with IBM, >> Yeah. >> There was obviously IBM DB2, Oracle, SQL Server, >> SQL Server. >> I guess MySQL is around >> Mm hmm. >> back then, LabStack was building out the internet. But databases are pretty boring >> Yeah. >> back then. And then all of a sudden, it exploded. >> Right. >> And the NoSQL movement happened in a huge way. >> Mm hmm. >> Coincided with the big data movement. What happened? >> Yeah, I think as we saw the space of this technology evolve, and a variety of different kind of use cases cropping up. The development community kind of respond to that. And really what we try to do with our portfolio is provide that variety of database technology solutions. To me, not any number of different use cases. And we like to think about it broken down into two categories. Your primary data stores. This is where your applications are writing and reading the data that has been stored. And then particularly to your point, this is where we call the auxiliary data services, for example. These are your in memory caches, your message brokers, your search index, what have you. There is a plethora of different database technologies out there today that plug into any number of different use cases and application developers are attempting to fill. And more often than not, they're using more than one database at a time. And really what we're trying to do at IBM with our cloud managed database offering is provide a variety of those data services and database technologies to meet a variety of those use cases, whether they're mixing and matching, or different kind of applications workloads or what have you. We'd like to provide our customers with the choices that are out there today in the community at large. >> So many choices. >> Yeah. >> Am I hearing that its kind of horses for courses? I mean, you get things like, even niches like Cumulo with fine grain security. >> Yeah. >> Or Couchbase, obviously. >> Mm hmm. This one scales. And then this one is easy to use. You take Mongo, for text, really easy to use >> Yeah exactly. >> Sort of different specialized use cases. How do you squint through, and how does IBM match the right characteristics with the right technology? >> It's really, it's two-pronged. It's about understanding the user base. Understanding and listening to your customers. And really internalizing what are the use cases that they are looking to fulfill? It's also being in tune with the database technology in the market today. It's understanding where there are trends. Understanding where there are new use cases cropping up. And it's about building a deep enough engineering operations team where we can quickly spin up these new offerings. And again provide that technology to our end customers. And it's about working with our customers as well. And understanding the use cases and then sometimes making recommendations on what database technology or combination of databases would be best suited for their objectives. >> I'm curious. One of the things that you mentioned in terms of what the developer's day-to-day job should be, is this almost IBM's approach to aligning with the developer role and enabling it in new ways? >> It is really about, I think, having sympathy in delivering on solutions in regards that is simply for the pains that they had otherwise endured 10, 15 years ago. When the notion of cloud managed anything really wasn't a thing yet. Or was just starting to emerge. IBM in houses runs their own systems for years and years obviously and the folks on my team, they have come from other companies, they know that the pain, what pain is involved in trying to run services. So like I said it's a little bit out of sympathy, it's a bit out of knowing what your users need in a cloud managed service. Whether again it's security, or availability, or redundancy, you name it. It's about coming around to the other side of the table and I sat where you once sat. And we know what you need out of your data services. So trusting us to provide that for you. >> How are the requirements different? Things like recovery and resiliency. Do I need asset compliance in this new world? May be you could. >> Yeah. It's funny, that's a good question in that we don't necessarily deal so much with database specific requirements. Again as I mention we try to provide a variety of different database technologies. And by and large the users are going to know what they need, what combinations that they will need. And we'll work with them if they're navigating their way through it. Really what we see more the requirements these days are around the management characteristics. As you cited, are they highly available? Are they backed up? What's your disaster recovery policy? What security policies do you have in place? what compliance, so on and so forth. It's really about presenting the overall package of that managed solution. Not so much, whether the database is going to be high available verses consistent replication or what have you. I mean that's in there, and it's part of what we engage with our customers about, but also what we'd like to put a lot of emphasis is on providing those recognized database technologies so that there is a community behind and there's opportunity for the users to understand what it is that they need beyond just what we can sell them. It's really about selling the value proposition of again, the management characteristics of the services. >> So who do you see as the competition? Obviously the other big, the two big cloud providers, AWS and Azure. >> Yep. >> You're competing with them. >> Definitely. >> Quality of offerings. May be talk about how you fit. >> And Google's another one. Or Oracle is another emerging one. Even Alibaba is catching up quite a bit. It really feels like a neck-to-neck race in our day after day. The way we try to approach our portfolio is focusing on deep, broad and secure. Deep being that there're a core set of database technologies. We're building the database itself. Db2, Cloudant which is based off of Couchbase. Excuse me, CouchDB. And then broad. Again as I've been mentioning, having a variety of different database technologies. And they're secure across the board. Whether it's secure in how we run the systems, secure on how we certify them through external compliance certifications. Or secure in how we integrate with security based tooling that our users can take advantage of. Regarding our competitors, it really is one week it may be a new big data at scale type of database technology. Another day it may be, or another week it might be deeper integrations into the platform. It might be new open source database technologies. It might be a new proprietary database technology. But we're, it's a constant, like I say, race to who got the most robust portfolio. >> Developers are like teenagers. They're fickle. >> Yeah, that too, that too. We got to be quick in order to respond to those demands. >> In this age of hybrid multi-cloud, where the average company has five plus private cloud, public cloud, through inertia, through acquisition, et cetera. Where's IBM's advantage there as companies are, I think we heard a stat the other day, Dave, that in 2018, 80% of the companies migrated data and apps from public cloud. In terms of this reality that companies live in this multi-cloud, where is IBM's advantage there? And where does your approach to cloud managed services really differentiate IBM's capabilities? >> Really there's, for the last couple of years, a tremendous amount of investment on building on the Kubernetes open source platform. And even in particular to our cloud managed database services, we have been developing and have been recently releasing a number of different databases that run on a platform that we've developed against Kubernetes. It's a platform that allows us to orchestrate deployments, deletions of databases, backups, high availability, platform level integrations, all, a number of different things. What that has allowed us to do when concerning a hybrid type of strategy is it makes our platform more portable. So Kubernetes is something that can run on the cloud. It can run in a private cloud. It can run on premise. And this platform we're developing is something that can be deployed, which we do today for private, public cloud consumption, which can also be packaged up and deploy into a private cloud type environment. And ultimately it's portable and it's leveraging of that Kubernetes technology itself. So we're not hamstringing ourselves to purely public cloud type services, or only private cloud type services. We want to have something that is abstracted enough that again it can move around to these different kind of environments. >> How important is open source and how important is it for you to commit to the different open source projects? There are so many, >> Yeah. >> And you have limited resources. So how do you manage that? >> Open source is really critical both in what we're building and what we're also offering. As we've talked about our users out there, they know what they often want or sometimes we nudge them to the right or to the left, but generally speaking it's around all the open source technologies and whatever may be trending for that current month is often times what we're getting requested for. It could be a Postgres. It could be a RabbitMQ. It could be ElasticSearch. What have you. And really we put a lot of emphasis on embracing the open source community, providing those database technologies to our customers. And then it allows our customers to benefit from the community at large too. We don't become again the sole provider of education and information about that technology. We're able to expose the whole community to our customers and they're able to take advantage of that. >> I hear a lot of complaints sometimes, particularly from folks that might list themselves in a marketplace for one cloud or another, that they feel like the primary cloud vendor might be nudging the customer into their proprietary database. What's IBM's position on that? Is that fair? Is that overblown? >> We obviously have proprietary tech, particularly the Db2. And that's something we're continue investing in. It's what we view as one of our strategic top priority database technologies. We are very active developers in the Couch community as well. I wouldn't consider that proprietary, but again back to the point of-- >> CouchDB. You're as the steward of CouchDB. >> Exactly. >> Right. >> Right, exactly. But again, firm believers in open source. We want to give those opportunities to our customers to avoid those vendor lock-in type situations. We actually have quite a lot of interests from our EU customer base. And by and large EU policies are around anti-trust and what have you. They tend to gravitate towards open source technology because they know it's again portable. They can be used in Postgres by IBM one month and if they no longer are satisfied with that, they can take their Postgres workloads and move them into another cloud provider. Ideally they're coming from the other cloud providers onto IBM. >> Well I should be actually more specific, in fairness, Dynamo's often cited. I supposed Google's Spanner although that's sort of a more of a niche, >> Mm hmm. >> specialized database. If I understand it correctly, Db2, that's a hard core transaction >> Sure. >> system. You're not going to confused that with, I don't think, anyway CouchDB. Although, who knows? May be there are some use cases there. But it sounds like you're not nudging them to your proprietary, certainly Db2 is proprietary. CouchDB is one of many options that you offer. >> Certainly Db2 is one of our core products for our database portfolio. And we do want to push our customers to Db2 where-- >> If it makes sense. >> Exactly, where it makes sense. And where there's demand for it. If it doesn't make sense so there's not demand we will offer up any number of the other databases that we also offer. >> Excellent, here's our last question.As >> Sure. >> As IBM Think the 2nd annual kicks off really tomorrow. For this developer audience that you were talking about a lot in our conversation, what are some of the exciting things that they're going to you? Any sort of obviously not breaking news, but >> Mmm hmm. >> Where would you advise the developer community, who's attending IBM Think to go to learn more about cloud managed databases? And how they can really become far more efficient to do their jobs better. >> Sure. Databases are hard, plain and simple. They are particularly hard to run, and developers who are not necessarily database admins, they're not database operators, that they want to focus on building the applications, are going to want to find solutions that alleviate that overhead of running those systems themselves. So to your question we've got sessions all throughout the week where we're talking about our Cloudant offerings and the future of where we're going with that. We've got a couple of different sessions around our IBM cloud database portfolio. This is a lot of the open source database technology we're running. We have demos in the solution center and Db2's strided all around the conference as well. So there's lots of different sessions focused on talking the value proposition of IBM's cloud managed database portfolio across the board. >> A lot of opportunities for learning. Well, Jozef de Vries, Thank you so much for joining Dave and me on theCube this afternoon. >> Thank you very much, it was great. And for Dave Vallente, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube, live from IBM Think 2019. Day 1 stick around. We'll be right back with our next guest. (upbeat music)

(uplifting music) >> Hello and welcome to this special CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, here in Palo Alto at theCUBE studios for a special conversation with Tarun Thaker, general manager of Datos IO, part of Rubrik. Last time I interviewed you, you were the CEO. You guys got acquired, congratulations. >> Thank you, thank you, John. Very happy to be here. >> How'd that go? How'd the acquisition go? >> Excellent, excellent. I Met Bipul about August of last year and it was sort of perfect marriage waiting to happen. We were both going after the broader irresistible opportunity of data management. >> I've enjoyed our previous conversations because you guys were a hot, growing start up and then you look at Rubrik, if you look at the success that they've been having, just the growth in data protection, the growth in cloud, you guys were on with from the beginning with Datos. Now you got a management team, you got all this growth, it is pretty fun to watch and I'll see you locally in Palo Alto so it's been interesting to see you guys. Huge growth opportunity. Cloud people are realizing that this is not a side decision. >> No. >> It's got to be done centrally. The customers are re architecting to be cloud native. The on premises, we saw big industry movements happening with Amazon at VMworld announcing RDS on VMware on premises. >> Correct. >> Which validates that the enterprises want to have a cloud operation, both on premise. >> Yes. >> And in cloud. How has this shaped you guys? You have big news, but this is a big trend. >> No, absolutely. John, I think you rightly said, the pace of innovation at Rubrik and the pace of market adoption is beyond everybody's imagination, right? When I said that it was sort of a marriage waiting to be happened, is if you look at the data management tam it's close to 50 billion dollars, right? And you need to build a portfolio of products, right? You need to sort of think about the classical data center applications because on prem is still there and on premises is still a big part of spending. But if you look at where enterprises are racing to the cloud. They're racing given digital transformation. They're racing customer 360 experience. Every organization, whether it be financials, maybe healthcare, maybe commerce, wants to get closer to the end customers, right? And if you look underneath that macro trend, it's all this cloud native space. Whether it be Kubernetes and Docker based containers or it could be RDS which is natively built in the cloud or it could be, hey I want to now run Oracle in the cloud, right? Once you start thinking of this re architecting stack being built in the cloud, enterprises will not leap and spend those top dollars that they spend on prem if they don't get a true, durable data management stack. >> And one of the things I really was impressed when you Datos, now it's part of Rubrik, is you were cloud up and down the stack. You were early on cloud, you guys thought like cloud native. Your operations was very agile. >> Thank you. >> Everything about you, beyond the product, was cloud. This is a critical success now for companies. They have to not just do cloud with product. >> Correct. >> Their operational impact has to be adjusted, how they do business, the supply chains, the value chains. These things are changing. >> The licensing, the pricing. >> This is the new model. >> Yes. >> This is where the data comes in. This is where the support comes in. You guys have some hard news, Datos IO 3.0. What's the big news? >> John, as you said, we've been very squarely focused on what we called the NoSQL big data market, right? We, if you look at, you know you talked about Amazon RDS, if you go to the Amazon business, Amazon database business is about four billon dollars today, right? Just think about that. If you take a guess on number one data base in Amazon native, it's not Oracle, it's MySQL. Number two, it's not SQL Server, it's Mongo DB. So if you look at the cloud native stack, we made this observation four years ago, as you said, that underneath this was all NoSQL. We really found that blue ocean, as we call it, the green field opportunity and go build the next Veritas for that space. You know, with 3.0, Bipul likes to call it in accordance to his leadership, consolidate your gains. Once you find an island full of gold coins, you don't leave that island. (laughing) You go double down, triple down, right? You don't want to distract your focus so 3.0 is all about us focusing. Really sort of the announcements are rooted around three vectors, as we call it. Number one, if you look at why Rubrik was so successful, you know you went into a pretty gorilla market of backup but why Rubrik has been successful at the heart is this ease of use and simplicity. And we wanted to bring that culture into, not only Datos team, but also into our product, right? So that was simplicity. Large scale distributive systems are difficult to deploy and manage so that was the first part. Second part was all about, you know, if you look at Mongo. Mongo has gone from zero to four billion dollars in less than 10 years. Every Fortune 2000, 500, Global 2000 customer is using Mongo in some critical way. >> Why is that? I mean people were always, personally we love Mongo DB, but people were predicting their demise every year. "Oh, it's never going to scale," I've heard people say and again, this is the competition. >> Correct. >> We know who they are. But why is the success there? Obviously NoSQL and unstructured data's big tsunami and there's more data coming in than ever before. Why are they successful? >> Excellent. That's why I enjoy being here, you go to the why not the what and the how. And the why is rooted for why Mongo DB's so successful, is application developers. We've all read this book, developers are the king makers of the IT, not your IT and storage admins? And Mongo found that niche, that if I can go build a database which is easier for an application developer, I will build a company. And that was the trend they built the company around. Fast forward, it's stock that is trading at $80 a piece. >> Yeah. >> To four billion plus in market. >> Yeah and I think the other thing I would just add, just riffing on that, is that cloud helps. Because where Mongo DB horizontally scales-- >> Elastic. >> The old critics were saying, thinking vertical scale. >> Correct. >> Cloud really helps that. >> Absolutely, absolutely. Cloud is our elastic resources, right? You turn it out and you turn it down. What we found in the first, as you know in the last two to three years journey of 1.0, 2.0, that we were having a great reception with Mongo DB deployments and again, consolidate your gains towards Mongo so that was the second vector, making Datos get scale out for Mongo DB deployments. Number three, which is really my most favorite was really around multi cloud is here, right? No enterprise is going to really, bet only on one form of Amazon or one form of Google Cloud, they're going to bet it across these multiple clouds, right? We were always on Amazon, Google. We now announced Datos natively available on Amazon, so now if you have enterprise customers doing NoSQL applications in Amazon, you can protect that data natively to the cloud, being the Azure cloud. >> So which clouds are you guys supporting now with 3.0? Can you just give the list? >> Yep, yep. We supported Amazon from very early days, AWS. Majority of customers are on Amazon. Number two is Google Cloud, we have a great relationship with Google Cloud team, very entrepreneurial people also. And number three's Azure. The fourth, which is sort of a hidden Trojan horse is Oracle Cloud. We also announced Datos on Oracle Cloud. Why, you may ask? Because if you look at, again, NoSQL and data stacks in Cassandra, we saw a very healthy ecosystem building for Cassandra and Oracle Cloud, for obvious reasons. It was very good for us to follow that tailwind. >> Interestingly I was just at Oracle yesterday for a briefing, and I'm not going to reveal any confidential information, because it's all on the record. They're heavily getting to cloud native. They have to. >> They have to. There's no choice. They cannot be like tiptoeing, they have to go all in. >> And microservices are a big thing. This is something that you guys now have focus on. Talk about the microservices. How does that fit in? Because you look at Kubernetes, Kubernetes is becoming that kind of TCPIP moment for the cloud world or TCPIP powered networked and created inter working. The inter cloud or the multi cloud relationship? >> Correct, all the cloud native. >> Kubernetes is becoming that core catalyst. Got containers on one side, service meshes on the other. This brings in the data equation, stateful applications, stateless applications, this is going to change the game for developers. >> Absolutely. >> Actually now you have a backup equation, how do you know what to back up? >> Correct. >> What's the data? >> Correct. >> What's the impact? >> Yeah. So the announcement that we announced, just to cover that quickly, is we were seeing that trend. If you look at these developers or these DBAs or data base admins who are going to the cloud and racing to the cloud? They're not deploying OVA files. They're not deploying, as you said, IP network files, right? They want to deploy these as containerized applications. So running Mongo as a Docker container or Cassandra as a Docker container or Couch as a Docker container and you cannot go to them as a data management product as an age old mechanism of various bits and bytes. So we announced two things, Datos is now available as a Docker container, so you can just get a Docker file and run your way. And number two is we can also protect your NoSQL applications that are Dockerized or that are containerized, right? And that's really our first step into what you're seeing with Amazon EKS, right? Elastic Kubernetes Service. If you saw NetApp announced yesterday the acquisition of Kubernetes as a service, right? And so our next step, now that we've enabled Docker container of Datos, is to how do we bring Kubernetes as a service on top of Docker because Docker to deploy, orchestrate, manage that by itself is really still a challenge. >> Yeah containers is the stepping stone to orchestration. >> Correct, correct. >> You need Kubernetes to orchestrate the containers. >> That is correct, that is correct. >> Alright so summarize the announcements. If you had to boil this down, what's the 3.0? >> So if I were to sort come back and give you sort of the headline message, it is really our release to go crack open into the Fortune 500, Global 2000 enterprises. So if you remember, 60% of our customers are already what we call it internally, R2K, global 2000 customers so Datos, 60% of our customers who are large Fortune 500 customers. >> They're running mission critical? >> They're mission critical, no support applications. >> So you're supporting mission critical applications? >> Absolutely, some of our biggest customers, ACL Worldwide, one of the largest financial leading organization. Home Depot, that we have talked about in the past, right? Palo Alto Networks, the worlds largest cloud security networking company, right? If you look at these organizations they are running cloud native applications today. And so this release is really our double down into cracking open the Global 2000 enterprises and really staying focused at that market. >> And multi cloud is critical for you guys? >> Oh, absolutely. Any enterprise software company without, especially a data company, right? At the end of the day, it's all about data. >> Tarun, talk about why multi cloud, at some point. I'd love to get your expert opinion on this because you know Kubernetes, you see what's coming around the corner with service meshes and all this cool stuff because it impacts the infrastructure. With multi cloud, certainly what everyone's asking about, hybrid and multi cloud. Why is multi cloud important? What's the impact of multi cloud? >> Great question, John. You know, I think it's rooted in sort of three key reasons, right? Number one, if you look at what enterprises did back in the day, right history repeats itself, right? They never betted only on IBM servers. They bought Dell servers, they bought HP servers. Never anybody betted only on ESX as the virtual hypervisor platform. They betted on KBM and others, right? Similarly if you look at these enterprises, the ones that we talked about, Palo Alto Networks, they're going to run some of the applications natively on Amazon but they want DR in Google Cloud so think about a business use case being across clouds. So that's the one, right? I want to run some applications in Amazon because of elasticity, ease of use, orchestration but I want to keep my DR in a different site but I don't want to a colo, right? I want to do another cloud, so that's one. Number two is some of your application developers are, you know, in different regions, right? You want to enable sort of different cloud sites for them, right? So it's just locality, would be more of a reason and number three which is actually, probably I think the most important, is if you look at Amazon and what they have done with the book business, what they've done with others, e-commerce organizations like eBay, like Home Depot, like Foot Locker, they're very wary of betting the farm on a retail organization. Fundamentally Amazon is a retail organization, right? So they will go back, their use cases on Google cloud, they'll go back their use cases on Azure cloud so it's like vertical. Which vertical is prone or more applicable to a particular cloud, if that make sense? >> And so having multi vendors been around for a while in the enterprise, so multi vendor just translates to multi cloud? >> There you go, yes, yes. >> How about what's goin' on with you guys? Next week is Microsoft Ignite, their big cloud show from Microsoft. You guys have a relationship with them. In November you announced a partnership. >> Correct. >> Rubrik and you guys are doing that, so what's going on with them? You're co-selling together? Are they joint developing? What's the update? >> Ignite, so Microsoft, I'll give an update on Microsoft and then Ignite. As you know, John Thompson is on our board and you know fundamentally the product that we have built, Azure team, working with them, we have come to realize that it's a great product to bring data to the cloud. >> Right. >> And we have a very good, strong product relationship with Microsoft, we have a co-sell meaning their reps can sell Rubrik and get quota retirement, that's massive, right? Think for both the companies, right? And companies don't make those decisions, John, lightly. Those decisions are made very strictly. >> Quota relief is great. >> It's huge. >> It's a sales force for you guys. >> Exactly, yep. For us, specifically on Ignite, with this release we announced Azure. We worked very closely with the Azure storage division. When we pitched them, hey we are now, Datos is available on Azure, the respect that we got was amazing. We had a Microsoft quote in our press release. At Ignite next week we have dedicated sessions talking about NoSQL back ups on Microsoft, natively being protected on Azure Cloud. It's good for them, good for us, huge announcement next week. >> That's good. You guys have done the work in the cloud and it's interesting, early cloud adopters get some dividends on that. Just to summarize the chat here, if you had to talk to customer who's watching or interested and sees all this competition out there, a lot of noise in the industry, how would you summarize your value proposition? What's the value that you're bringing to the table? How do you guys compete on that value? Why Datos? >> Perfect, thank you. It's, again, simple order in one to three. Number one, we're helping you accelerate journey to the cloud. Right, you want to go the cloud, we understand Fortune 500 enterprises want to race to the cloud. You don't want to race without protection, without data management. It's your data, it needs to be in your control so that's one. We're helping you race to the cloud, yet keeping your data in your hands. Number two, you are buying a truly cloud native software not a software that was built 20 years ago and shrink wrapped into cloud. This is a product built into technologies which are cloud native, right? Elasticity, you can scale up Datos, you can scale down Datos, just like Amazon resources so you're truly buying an elastic technologies rooted data management product. And number three, you know if you really look at cloud, cloud to you as a customer is all about, hey can I build, not lift and shift, cloud native. And you're adopting these new technologies, you don't want to not think about protection, management, DR, those critical business use cases. >> And thinking differently about cloud operations is critical. Great to see you Tarun. Thanks for coming on and sharing the news on Datos 3.0, appreciate it. I'm John Furrier, here in Palo Alto Studios with the general manager of Datos IO, now part of Rubrik, formerly the CEO of Datos, Tarun Thaker, thanks for watching. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching theCUBE. (uplifting music)