>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. (upbeat music) >> Hi, everybody, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. My name is Dave Vellante and we're here in theCUBE Studios in Marlborough, Massachusetts. We're gonna talk about storage and some of the trends that are going on in storage, and things have changed quite dramatically. It's not just about what media you're using today, you've got a lot of other considerations. Cloud, on-prem, in comes the edge, and it really drives new considerations for customers. Sundip Arora is here. He's the director of North America Storage and Big Data Solutions at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. He's gonna talk to me about some of these trends, the customer point of view, and what HPE is doing to solve some of these problems. Sundip, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Dave, thanks for having me, I'm super excited. >> So you heard my little narrative upfront about some of the big picture trends, what do you see as some of the tectonic shifts in the storage marketplace? >> Yeah, Dave. So listen, we've traveled around the continent here and I spend a lot of time with customers in North America, and what I hear from customers is their center of universe revolves around being able to map with their cloud journey and what does that mean for their data. Now, I look at our cloud operating model and I map that to HPE's own point of view. Our point of view is bringing the intelligent data platform to our customers. And when we talk about mapping the cloud operating model to our customer, what does that really mean for us? When I talk to customers, they tell me three things. It means that you have extreme cost efficiency, you've got super ease of use, and you've got resource optimization, how to utilize them in the best manner. >> So, let me ask you on that. Big Data is in your title, and one of the things that we observed early on in the big data days was it was about bringing five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data. Well, that sounded great and it was great, but it also caused problems because you're pushing, now, storage is everywhere. I mentioned the edge. So, I'm sure you're seeing that with customers. There is no more perimeter. Storage is just everywhere, wherever you want it to be. So when you talk about the cloud operating model, are you talking about bringing that experience to your data wherever that data lives? >> That's a great question. It used to be that you had an accounting system and that had a database, and that was delivering you a ton of data that you could analyze and store and read and write. And now, you've got data that's being produced at the edge, you've got point of sales systems, you've got autonomous vehicles, you've got data that's being produced on the cloud itself, and you've got data that's being produced at the core. So, what we are talking about is not just the automation of bringing that data in, but also how that data is being utilized. And to us, the way we map that challenge is through intelligence. >> Let's break down those three things: cost efficiency, ease of use, and resource optimization. Let's start with cost-efficiency. So, obviously, there's TCO. There's also the way in which I consume. The people, I presume, are looking for a different pricing model. Are you hearing that? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, as part of the cost of running their business and being able to operate like a cloud, everybody's looking at a variety of different procurement and utilization models. One of the ways HPE provides utilization model that can map to their cloud journey, a public cloud journey, is through GreenLake. The ability to use and consume data on demand, consume compute on demand, across the entire portfolio of products HPE has, essentially is what a GreenLake journey looks like. >> Let's go into ease of use. So, what do you mean by that? I mean, people, they think cloud, they think swipe the credit card and start deploying machines. What do you mean by ease of use? >> For us, ease of use translates back to how do you map to a simpler operating and support model. For us, the support model is the key for customers to be able to realize the benefits of going to the cloud. To get to a simpler support model, we use AIOps. And for us, AIOps means using a product called InfoSight. InfoSight is a product that uses deep learning and machine learning algorithms to look at a wide net of call-home data from physical resources out there and then be able to take that data and make it actionable. And the action behind that is predictiveness, the prescriptiveness of creating automated support tickets, and closing automated support tickets without anybody ever having to pick up a phone and call IT support. That InfoSight model now is being expanded across the board to all HPE products. It started with Nimble. Now InfoSight is available on 3PAR it's available on Synergy, and a recent announcement said it's also on ProLiants. And we expect that InfoSight becomes the glue, the automation AI glue, that goes across the entire portfolio of HPE products. >> So this is a great example of applying AI to data, so it's like call home taking to a whole level, isn't it? >> Yeah, it absolutely is. And in fact, what it does is it uses the call-home data that we've had for a long time with products like 3PAR, which essentially was amazing data but not being actioned on in an automated fashion. It takes that data and now, it creates an automation task around it. And many times, that automation task leads to much simpler support experience. >> Okay, the third item you mentioned was resource optimization. Let's drill down into that. I infer from that there are performance implications, there's maybe governance compliance, physical placement, can you elaborate, add some color to that? >> I think it's all of the above that you just talked about. It's definitely about applying the right performance level to the right set of applications. We call this application-aware storage. The ability to be able to understand which application is creating the data allows us to understand how that data needs to be accessed which in turn means we know where it needs to reside. One of the things that HPE is doing in the storage domain is creating a common storage fabric with the cloud. We call that the fabric for the cloud. The idea there is that we have a single layer between the on-premises and off-premises resources that allows us to move data as needed depending on the application needs and depending on the user needs. >> Okay, so that brings me to multi-cloud. It's the hot buzzword now. Some people don't like it but it's reality. And so, you've got data on-prem, you want to look like the cloud operating model, you got data in the cloud, the edge confuses things even more. And so, what is your perspective on multi-cloud, and then I have a follow-up for you. >> For us, multicloud means the ability to be able to run your business whether it's on-premises or off-premises based on the needs or the requirements of the application and the business user. We don't want to force a model down our customer's throat. We want them to have optimization across both models. The way we do that is using a couple of different products. We've got a product known as Cloud Bank, which maps to StoreOnce. StoreOnce is our purpose-built backup appliance where our customer can store a copy, a backup copy of the data on-premises, and then a backup copy of that on a public cloud like Azure, AWS, or Google. Similarly, we've got products with Nimble and 3PAR that allows to have tight integration with both public and private cloud domains. And in the future, the idea is to bring all of that together where the automation and the orchestration allows customers not to worry about what product they're using but more about what are the requirements of the application. >> Okay, because sometimes you gonna wanna bring data back, whether it's, pick and, yeah, I wanna put it in the cloud for bursting, I wanna bring it back for more control, whatever it is, when it comes back, I wanna have that cloud operating model, that's where the AIOps fits in that you were just describing. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay, and so, let's get into, more specifically, what HPE is doing. You've referenced some of the things that you and your partners are doing, but what specifically are you doing from the standpoint of products, you mentioned what I call data plan and control plan. What do you have there that we can actually buy and employ? >> What we have, as I talked about earlier from an AIOps point of view, is our product called InfoSight, and InfoSight is available to all customers that today use 3PAR, Nimble, or ProLiant servers. As long as you have a valid support contract, it comes available to them. >> So I remember when HPE acquired Nimble, you said one of the things you're gonna do is take that technology and push it across the portfolio, so that's something that you've really done in a pretty short timeframe. >> We have, and what it does, it gives us the opportunity now not just to look at call-home data from storage, but then also look at call-home data from the compute side. And then what we can do is correlate the data coming back to have better predictability and outcomes on your data center operations as opposed to doing it at the layer of infrastructure. >> And you also said about the vision of this orchestration layer, can you talk more about that? Are we talking about across all clouds, whether it's on-prem or at the edge or the public cloud? >> Yeah, we are. We're talking about making it as simple as possible where the customers are not necessarily picking and choosing. It allows them to have a strategy that allows them to go across the data center, whether it's a public cloud, building their own private infrastructure, or running on a traditional on-premises SAN structure. So this vision for us, Cloud Fabric vision for us, allows for customers to do that. >> And what about software-defined storage? Where does that fit into this whole equation? >> I'm glad you mentioned that because that was the third tenet of what HPE truly brings to our customers. Software-defined is something that allows us to maximize the utilization of the existing resources that our customers have. So, what we've done is we've partnered with a great deal of really strong software-defined vendors, such us Commvault, Cohesity, Qumulo, Datera. We work very closely with the likes of Veeam, Zerto. And the goal there is to provide our customers with a whole range of options to drive building a software-defined infrastructure built off the Apollo Series of products. Apollo servers, our storage products for us, are extremely dense storage products that allow for both cost and resource optimization. >> What's the nature of these technology partners, partnerships? Are you doing engineering integration or is it just kind of going to market together? >> We bundle our partners into three main categories. We've got a set of complete partners. These complete partners are relationship where we do joint reference architecture. We create joint pricing list and we bring them in to the family. We've got a set of partners that's part of the Pathfinder program. The Pathfinder program are partners that we've made strategic, HPE has made strategic investments in. And then the third set is partners that we resell through HPE. So, depending on which partner it is, they fall into a different bucket, and we have all sets of resources, including engineering collaboration to make sure that the customer's buying a solution as opposed to a product. >> That's great, Sundip, thank you. Thank you for watching. But before we go, how do people learn more? >> The way you learn more is make sure you contact your partner and make sure you come to Discover. So, we'll hopefully see you at the Discover. (upbeat music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to the special CUBE conversation on secondary storage and data protection, which is one of the hottest topics in the business right now. Cloud, multi-cloud, bringing the Cloud experience to wherever your data lives and protecting that data driven by digital transformation. We're gonna talk about that with Patrick Osborne, the Vice President and General Manager for big data and secondary storage at HPE, good friend and CUBE alum. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Great, thanks for having us. >> So let's start with some of those trends that I mentioned. I think, let's start with digital transformation. It's a big buzzword in the industry but it's real. I travel around, I talk to customers all the time, everybody's trying to get digital transformation right. And digital means data, data needs to be protected in new ways now, and so when we trickle down into your world, data protection, what are you seeing in terms of the impact of digital and digital transformation on data protection? >> Absolutely, great question. So the winds of change in secondary storage are blowing pretty hard right now. I think there's a couple different things that are driving that conversation. A, the specialization of people with specific backup teams, right, that's moving away, right. You're moving away from general storage administration and specialized teams to people focusing a lot of those resources now on Cloud Ops team, DevOps team, application development. So they want that activity of data protection to be automated and invisible. Like you said before, in terms of being able to re-use that data, the old days of essentially having a primary dataset and then pushing it off to some type of secondary storage which just sits there over time, is not something that customers want anymore. >> Right. >> They wanna be able to use that data, they wanna be able to generate copies of that, do test and dev, gain insight from that, being able to move that to the Cloud, for example, to be able to burst out there or do it for DR activities. So I think there's a lot of things that are happening when it comes to data that are certainly changing the requirements and expectations around secondary storage. >> So the piece I want to bring to the conversation is Cloud and I saw a stat recently that the average company, the average enterprise has, like, eight clouds, and I was thinking, sheesh, small company like ours has eight clouds, so I mean, the average enterprise must have 80 clouds when you start throwing in all the saas. >> Yeah. >> So Cloud and specifically, multi-cloud, you guys, HPEs, always been known for open platform, whatever the customer wants to do, we'll do it. So multi-cloud becomes really important. And let's expand the definition of Cloud to include private cloud on PRM, what we call True Private Cloud in the Wikibon world, but whether it's Azure, AWS, Google, dot, dot, dot, what are you guys seeing in terms of the pressure from customers to support multi... They don't want a silo, a data protection silo for each cloud, right? >> Absolutely. So they don't want silos in general, right? So I think a couple of key things that you brought up, private cloud is very interesting for customers. Whether they're gonna go on PRM or off PRM, they absolutely want to have the experience on PRM. So what we're providing customers is the ability, through APIs and seamless integration into their existing application frameworks, the ability to move data from point A to point B to point C, which could be primary all-flash, secondary systems, cloud targets, but have that be able to be automated full API set and provide a lot of those capabilities, those user stories around data protection and re-use, directly to the developers, right, and the database admins and whoever's doing this news or DevOps area. The second piece is that, like you said, everyone's gonna have multiple clouds, and what we want to do is we want to be able to give customers an intelligent experience around that. We don't necessarily need to own all the infrastructure, right, but we need to be able to facilitate and provide the visibility of where that data's gonna land, and over time, with our capabilities that we have around InfoSight, we wanna be able to do that predictably, make recommendations, have that whole population of customers learn from each other and provide some expert analysis for our customers as to where to place workloads. >> These trends, Patrick, they're all interrelated, so they're not distinct and before we get into the hard news, I wanna kinda double down on another piece of this. So you got data, you got digital, which is data, you've got new pressures on data protection, you've got the cloud-scale, a lot of diversity. We haven't even talked about the edge. That's another, sort of, piece of it. But people wanna get more out of their data protection investment. They're kinda sick of just spending on insurance. They'd like to get more value out of it. You've mentioned DevOps before. >> Yep. >> Better access to that data, certainly compliance. Things like GDPR have heightened awareness of things that you can do with the data, not just for backup, and not even just for compliance, but actually getting value out of the data. Your thoughts on that trend? >> Yeah, so from what we see for our customers, they absolutely wanna reuse data, right? So we have a ton of solutions for our customers around very low latency, high performance optimized flash storage in 3PAR and Nimble, different capabilities there, and then being able to take that data and move it off to a hybrid flash array, for example, and then do workloads on that, is something that we're doing today with our customers, natively as well as partnering with some of our ISV ecosystem. And then sort of a couple new use cases that are coming is that I want to be able to have data providence. So I wanna share some of my data, keep that in a colo but be able to apply compute resources, whether those are VMs, whether they are functions, lambda functions, on that data. So we wanna bring the compute to the data, and that's another use case that we're enabling for our customers, and then ultimately using the Cloud as a very, very low-cost, scalable and elastic tier storage for archive and retention. >> One of the things we've been talking about in theCUBE community is you hear that Bromite data is the new oil, and somebody in the community was saying, you know what? It's actually more valuable than oil. When I have oil, I can put it in my house or I can put it my car. But data, the unique attribute of data is I can use it over and over and over again. And again, that puts more pressure on data protection. All right, let's get into some of the hard news here. You've got kind of a four-pack of news that we wanna talk about. Let's start with StoreOnce. It's a platform that you guys announced several years ago. You've been evolving it regularly. What's the StoreOnce news? >> Yes, so in the secondary storage world, we've seen the movement from PBBA, so Purpose-Built Backup Appliances, either morphing into very intelligent software that runs on commodity hardware, or an integrated appliance approach, right? So you've got a integrated DR appliance that seamlessly integrates into your environment. So what we've been doing with StoreOnce, this is our 4th generation system and it's got a lot of great attributes. It has a system, right. It's available in a rote form factor at different capacities. It's also available as a software-defined version so you can run that on PRM, you can run it off PRM. It scales up to multiple petabytes in a software-only version. So we've got a couple different use cases for it, but what I think is one of the key things is that we're providing a very integrated experience for customers who are 3PAR Nimble customers. So it allows you to essentially federate your primary all-flash storage with secondary. And then we actually provide a number of use cases to go out to the Cloud as well. Very easy to use, geared towards the application admin, very integrative. >> So it's bigger, better, faster, and you've got this integration, a confederation as you called it, across different platforms. What's the key technical enabler there? >> Yeah, so we have a really extensible platform for software that we call Recovery Manager Central. Essentially, it provides a number of different use cases and user stories around copy data management. So it's gonna allow you to take application integrated snapshots. It's gonna allow you to do that either in the application framework, so if you're a DVA and you do Arman, you could do it in there, or if you have your own custom applications, you can write to the API. So it allows you to do snapshots, full clones, it'll allow you to do DR, so one box to another similar system, it'll allow you to go from primary to secondary, it'll allow you to archive out to the Cloud, and then all of that in reverse, right? So you can pull all of that data back and it'll give you visibility across all those assets. So, the past where you, as a customer, did all this on your own, right, bought on horizontal lines? We're giving a customer, based on a set of outcomes and applications, a complete vertically-oriented solution. >> Okay, so that's the, really, second piece of hard news. >> Yeah. >> Recovery Manager Central, RMC, 6.0, right-- >> Yeah. >> Is the release that we're on? And that's copy data management essentially-- >> Absolutely. >> Is what you're talking about. It's your catalog, right, so your tech underneath that, and you're applying that now across the portfolio, right? >> Absolutely. So, we're extending that from... We've had, for the past year, that ability to do the copy data management directly from 3PAR. We're extending that to provide that for Nimble. Right, so for Nimble customers that want to use all-flash, they want to use hybrid flash arrays from Nimble, you can go to secondary storage in StoreOnce and then out to the Cloud. >> Okay, and that's what 6.0 enables-- >> Yeah, exactly. >> That Nimble piece and then out to the Cloud. Okay, third piece of news is an ecosystem announcement with Commvault. Take us through that. >> Yeah, so we understand at HPE, given the fact that we're very, very focused on hybrid Cloud and we have a lot of customers that have been our customers for a long time, none of these opportunities are greenfield, right, at the end of the day. So your customers are, they have to integrate with existing solutions, and in a lot of cases, they have some partners for data protection. So one of the things that we've done with this ecosystem is made very public our APIs and how to integrate our systems. So we're storage people, we are data management folks, we do big data, we also do infrastructure. So we know how to manage the infrastructure, move data very seamlessly between primary, secondary, and the Cloud. And what we do is, we open up those APIs in those use cases to all of our partners and our customers. So, in that, we're announcing a number of integrations with Commvault, so they're gonna be integrating with our de-duplication and compression framework, as well as being able to program to what we call Cloud Bank, right? So, we'll be able to, in effect, integrate with Commvault with our primary storage, be able to do rapid recovery from StoreOnce in a number of backup use cases, and then being able to go out to the cloud, all managed through customers' Commvault interface. >> All right, so if I hear you correctly, you've just gotta double click on the Commvault integration. It's not just a go-to-market setup. It's deeper engineering and integration that you guys are doing. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, great. And then, of course the fourth piece is around, so your bases are loaded here, the fourth piece is around the Cloud economics, Cloud pricing model. Your GreenLake model, the utility pricing has gotten a lot of traction. When we're at HPE Discover, customers talking about it, you guys have been leaders there. Talk about GreenLake and how that model fits into this. >> Yeah, so, in the technology talk track we talk about, essentially, how to make this simple and how to make it scalable. At the end of the day, on the buying pattern side, customers expect elasticity, right? So, what we're providing for our customers is when they want to do either a specific integration or implementation of one of those components from a technology perspective, we can provide that. If they're doing a complete re-architecture and want to understand how I can essentially use secondary storage better and I wanna take advantage of all that data that I have sitting in there, I can provide that whole experience to customers as a service, right? So, the primary storage, your secondary storage, the Cloud capacity, even some of the ISV partner software that we provide, I can take that as an entire, vetted solution, with reference architectures and the expertise to implement, and I can give that to a customer in an OpEx as a service elastic purchasing model. And that is very unique for HPE and that's what we've gone to market with GreenLake, and we're gonna be providing more solutions like that, but in this case, we're announcing the fact that you can buy that whole experience, backup as a service, data protection as a service, through GreenLake from HPE. >> So how does that work, Patrick, practically speaking? A customer will, what, commit to some level of capacity, let's say, as an example, and then HPE will put in some extra headroom if, in fact, that's needed, you maybe sit down with the customer and do some kind of capacity planning, or how does that actually work, practically speaking? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we work with customers on the architecture, right, up front. So we have a set of vetted architectures. We try to avoid snowflakes, right, at the end of the day. We want to talk to customers around outcomes. So if a customer is trying to reach outcome XYZ, we come with a recommendation on how to do that. And what we can do is, we don't have very high up-front commitments and it's very elastic in the way that we approach the purchasing experience. So we're able to fit those modules in. And then we've made some number of acquisitions over the last couple years, right? So, on the advisory side, we have Cloud Technology Partners. We come in and talk about how do you do a hybrid cloud backup as a service, right? So we can advise customers on how to do that and build that into the experience. We acquired CloudCruiser, right? So we have the billing and the monitoring and everything that gets very, very granular on how you use that service, and that goes into how we bill customers on a per-metric usage format. And so we're able to package all of that up and we have, this is a kind of a little-known fact, very, very high NPS score for HPE financial services. Right, so the combination of our point next services, advisory, financial services, really puts a lot of meat behind GreenLake as a really good customer experience around elasticity. >> Okay, now all this stuff is gonna be available calendar Q4 of 2018, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay, so if you've seen videos like this before, we like to talk about what it is, how it works, and then we like to bring it home with the business impact. So thinking about these four announcements, and you can drill deeper on any one that you like, but I'd like to start, at least, holistically, what's the business impact of all of this? Obviously, you've got Cloud, we talked about some of the trends up front, but what are you guys telling customers is the real ROI? >> So, I think the big ROI is it moves secondary storage from a TCO conversation to an ROI conversation. Right, so instead of selling customers a solution where you're gonna have data that sits there waiting for something to happen, I'm giving customers a solution that's consumed as a service to be able to mine and utilize that secondary data, right? Whether it's for simple tasks like patch verification, application rollouts, things like that, and actually lowering the cost of your primary storage in doing that, which is usually pretty expensive from a storage perspective. I'm also helping customers save time, right? By providing these integrated experiences from primary to secondary to Cloud and making that automatic, I do help customers save quite a bit in OpEx from an operator perspective. And they can take those resources and move them on to higher impact projects like DevOps, CloudOps, things of that nature. That's a big impact from a customer perspective. >> So there's a CapEx to OpEx move for those customers that want to take advantage of GreenLake. [Patrick] Yep. >> So certain CFOs will like that story. But I think the other piece that, to me anyway, is most important is, especially in this world of digital transformation, I know it's a buzzword, but it's real. When you go to talk to people, they don't wanna do the heavy lifting of infrastructure management, the day-to-day infrastructure management. A lot of mid-size customers, they just don't have the resources to do it anymore. >> Correct. >> And they're under such pressure to digitize, every company wants to become a software company. Benioff talks about that, Satya Nadella talks about that, Antonio talks about digital transformation. And so it's on CEOs' minds. They don't want to be paying people for these mundane tasks. They really wannna shift them to these digital transformation initiatives and drive more business value. >> Absolutely. So you said it best, right, we wanna drive the customer experience to focusing on high-value things that'll enable their digital transformation. So, as a vision, what we're gonna keep on providing, and you've seen that with InfoSight on Nimble, InfoSight for 3PAR, and our vision around AI for the data center, these tasks around data protection, they're repeatable tasks, how to protect data, how to move data, how to mine that data. So if we can provide recommendations and some predictive analytics and experiences to the customers around this, and essentially abstract that and just have the customers focus on defining their SLA, and we're worried about delivering that SLA, then that's a huge win for us and our customers. And that's our vision, that's what we're gonna be providing them. >> Yeah, automation is the key. You've got some tools in the toolkit to help do that and it's just gonna escalate from here. It feels like we're on the early part of the S-curve and it's just gonna really spike. >> Absolutely. >> All right, Patrick. Hey, thanks for coming in and taking us through this news, and congratulations on getting this stuff done and we'll be watching the marketplace. Thank you. >> Great. Kudos to the team, great announcement, and we look forward to working with you guys again. >> All right, thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante on theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to the special CUBE conversation on secondary storage and data protection, which is one of the hottest topics in the business right now. Cloud, multi-cloud, bringing the Cloud experience to wherever your data lives and protecting that data driven by digital transformation. We're gonna talk about that with Patrick Osborne, the Vice President and General Manager for big data and secondary storage at HPE, good friend and CUBE alum. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Great, thanks for having us. >> So let's start with some of those trends that I mentioned. I think, let's start with digital transformation. It's a big buzzword in the industry but it's real. I travel around, I talk to customers all the time, everybody's trying to get digital transformation right. And digital means data, data needs to be protected in new ways now, and so when we trickle down into your world, data protection, what are you seeing in terms of the impact of digital and digital transformation on data protection? >> Absolutely, great question. So the winds of change in secondary storage are blowing pretty hard right now. I think there's a couple different things that are driving that conversation. A, the specialization of people with specific backup teams, right, that's moving away, right. You're moving away from general storage administration and specialized teams to people focusing a lot of those resources now on Cloud Ops team, DevOps team, application development. So they want that activity of data protection to be automated and invisible. Like you said before, in terms of being able to re-use that data, the old days of essentially having a primary dataset and then pushing it off to some type of secondary storage which just sits there over time, is not something that customers want anymore. >> Right. >> They wanna be able to use that data, they wanna be able to generate copies of that, do test and dev, gain insight from that, being able to move that to the Cloud, for example, to be able to burst out there or do it for DR activities. So I think there's a lot of things that are happening when it comes to data that are certainly changing the requirements and expectations around secondary storage. >> So the piece I want to bring to the conversation is Cloud and I saw a stat recently that the average company, the average enterprise has, like, eight clouds, and I was thinking, sheesh, small company like ours has eight clouds, so I mean, the average enterprise must have 80 clouds when you start throwing in all the sass. >> Yeah. >> So Cloud and specifically, multi-cloud, you guys, HPEs, always been known for open platform, whatever the customer wants to do, we'll do it. So multi-cloud becomes really important. And let's expand the definition of Cloud to include private cloud on PRM, what we call True Private Cloud in the Wikibon world, but whether it's Azure, AWS, Google, dot, dot, dot, what are you guys seeing in terms of the pressure from customers to support multi... They don't want a silo, a data protection silo for each cloud, right? >> Absolutely. So they don't want silos in general, right? So I think a couple of key things that you brought up, private cloud is very interesting for customers. Whether they're gonna go on PRM or off PRM, they absolutely want to have the experience on PRM. So what we're providing customers is the ability, through APIs and seamless integration into their existing application frameworks, the ability to move data from point A to point B to point C, which could be primary all-flash, secondary systems, cloud targets, but have that be able to be automated full API set and provide a lot of those capabilities, those user stories around data protection and re-use, directly to the developers, right, and the database admins and whoever's doing this news or DevOps area. The second piece is that, like you said, everyone's gonna have multiple clouds, and what we want to do is we want to be able to give customers an intelligent experience around that. We don't necessarily need to own all the infrastructure, right, but we need to be able to facilitate and provide the visibility of where that data's gonna land, and over time, with our capabilities that we have around InfoSight, we wanna be able to do that predictably, make recommendations, have that whole population of customers learn from each other and provide some expert analysis for our customers as to where to place workloads. >> These trends, Patrick, they're all interrelated, so they're not distinct and before we get into the hard news, I wanna kinda double down on another piece of this. So you got data, you got digital, which is data, you've got new pressures on data protection, you've got the cloud-scale, a lot of diversity. We haven't even talked about the edge. That's another, sort of, piece of it. But people wanna get more out of their data protection investment. They're kinda sick of just spending on insurance. They'd like to get more value out of it. You've mentioned DevOps before. >> Yep. >> Better access to that data, certainly compliance. Things like GDPR have heightened awareness of things that you can do with the data, not just for backup, and not even just for compliance, but actually getting value out of the data. Your thoughts on that trend? >> Yeah, so from what we see for our customers, they absolutely wanna reuse data, right? So we have a ton of solutions for our customers around very low latency, high performance optimized flash storage in 3PAR and Nimble, different capabilities there, and then being able to take that data and move it off to a hybrid flash array, for example, and then do workloads on that, is something that we're doing today with our customers, natively as well as partnering with some of our ISV ecosystem. And then sort of a couple new use cases that are coming is that I want to be able to have data providence. So I wanna share some of my data, keep that in a colo but be able to apply compute resources, whether those are VMs, whether they are functions, lambda functions, on that data. So we wanna bring the compute to the data, and that's another use case that we're enabling for our customers, and then ultimately using the Cloud as a very, very low-cost, scalable and elastic tier storage for archive and retention. >> One of the things we've been talking about in theCUBE community is you hear that Bromite data is the new oil, and somebody in the community was saying, you know what? It's actually more valuable than oil. When I have oil, I can put it in my house or I can put it my car. But data, the unique attribute of data is I can use it over and over and over again. And again, that puts more pressure on data protection. All right, let's get into some of the hard news here. You've got kind of a four-pack of news that we wanna talk about. Let's start with StoreOnce. It's a platform that you guys announced several years ago. You've been evolving it regularly. What's the StoreOnce news? >> Yes, so in the secondary storage world, we've seen the movement from PBBA, so Purpose-Built Backup Appliances, either morphing into very intelligent software that runs on commodity hardware, or an integrated appliance approach, right? So you've got a integrated DR appliance that seamlessly integrates into your environment. So what we've been doing with StoreOnce, this is our 4th generation system and it's got a lot of great attributes. It has a system, right. It's available in a rote form factor at different capacities. It's also available as a software-defined version so you can run that on PRM, you can run it off PRM. It scales up to multiple petabytes in a software-only version. So we've got a couple different use cases for it, but what I think is one of the key things is that we're providing a very integrated experience for customers who are 3PAR Nimble customers. So it allows you to essentially federate your primary all-flash storage with secondary. And then we actually provide a number of use cases to go out to the Cloud as well. Very easy to use, geared towards the application admin, very integrative. >> So it's bigger, better, faster, and you've got this integration, a confederation as you called it, across different platforms. What's the key technical enabler there? >> Yeah, so we have a really extensible platform for software that we call Recovery Manager Central. Essentially, it provides a number of different use cases and user stories around copy data management. So it's gonna allow you to take application integrated snapshots. It's gonna allow you to do that either in the application framework, so if you're a DVA and you do Arman, you could do it in there, or if you have your own custom applications, you can write to the API. So it allows you to do snapshots, full clones, it'll allow you to do DR, so one box to another similar system, it'll allow you to go from primary to secondary, it'll allow you to archive out to the Cloud, and then all of that in reverse, right? So you can pull all of that data back and it'll give you visibility across all those assets. So, the past where you, as a customer, did all this on your own, right, bought on horizontal lines? We're giving a customer, based on a set of outcomes and applications, a complete vertically-oriented solution. >> Okay, so that's the, really, second piece of hard news. >> Yeah. >> Recovery Manager Central, RMC, 6.0, right-- >> Yeah. >> Is the release that we're on? And that's copy data management essentially-- >> Absolutely. >> Is what you're talking about. It's your catalog, right, so your tech underneath that, and you're applying that now across the portfolio, right? >> Absolutely. So, we're extending that from... We've had, for the past year, that ability to do the copy data management directly from 3PAR. We're extending that to provide that for Nimble. Right, so for Nimble customers that want to use all-flash, they want to use hybrid flash arrays from Nimble, you can go to secondary storage in StoreOnce and then out to the Cloud. >> Okay, and that's what 6.0 enables-- >> Yeah, exactly. >> That Nimble piece and then out to the Cloud. Okay, third piece of news is an ecosystem announcement with Commvault. Take us through that. >> Yeah, so we understand at HPE, given the fact that we're very, very focused on hybrid Cloud and we have a lot of customers that have been our customers for a long time, none of these opportunities are greenfield, right, at the end of the day. So your customers are, they have to integrate with existing solutions, and in a lot of cases, they have some partners for data protection. So one of the things that we've done with this ecosystem is made very public our APIs and how to integrate our systems. So we're storage people, we are data management folks, we do big data, we also do infrastructure. So we know how to manage the infrastructure, move data very seamlessly between primary, secondary, and the Cloud. And what we do is, we open up those APIs in those use cases to all of our partners and our customers. So, in that, we're announcing a number of integrations with Commvault, so they're gonna be integrating with our de-duplication and compression framework, as well as being able to program to what we call Cloud Bank, right? So, we'll be able to, in effect, integrate with Commvault with our primary storage, be able to do rapid recovery from StoreOnce in a number of backup use cases, and then being able to go out to the cloud, all managed through customers' Commvault interface. >> All right, so if I hear you correctly, you've just gotta double click on the Commvault integration. It's not just a go-to-market setup. It's deeper engineering and integration that you guys are doing. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, great. And then, of course the fourth piece is around, so your bases are loaded here, the fourth piece is around the Cloud economics, Cloud pricing model. Your GreenLake model, the utility pricing has gotten a lot of traction. When we're at HPE Discover, customers talking about it, you guys have been leaders there. Talk about GreenLake and how that model fits into this. >> Yeah, so, in the technology talk track we talk about, essentially, how to make this simple and how to make it scalable. At the end of the day, on the buying pattern side, customers expect elasticity, right? So, what we're providing for our customers is when they want to do either a specific integration or implementation of one of those components from a technology perspective, we can provide that. If they're doing a complete re-architecture and want to understand how I can essentially use secondary storage better and I wanna take advantage of all that data that I have sitting in there, I can provide that whole experience to customers as a service, right? So, the primary storage, your secondary storage, the Cloud capacity, even some of the ISV partner software that we provide, I can take that as an entire, vetted solution, with reference architectures and the expertise to implement, and I can give that to a customer in an OpEx as a service elastic purchasing model. And that is very unique for HPE and that's what we've gone to market with GreenLake, and we're gonna be providing more solutions like that, but in this case, we're announcing the fact that you can buy that whole experience, backup as a service, data protection as a service, through GreenLake from HPE. >> So how does that work, Patrick, practically speaking? A customer will, what, commit to some level of capacity, let's say, as an example, and then HPE will put in some extra headroom if, in fact, that's needed, you maybe sit down with the customer and do some kind of capacity planning, or how does that actually work, practically speaking? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we work with customers on the architecture, right, up front. So we have a set of vetted architectures. We try to avoid snowflakes, right, at the end of the day. We want to talk to customers around outcomes. So if a customer is trying to reach outcome XYZ, we come with a recommendation on how to do that. And what we can do is, we don't have very high up-front commitments and it's very elastic in the way that we approach the purchasing experience. So we're able to fit those modules in. And then we've made some number of acquisitions over the last couple years, right? So, on the advisory side, we have Cloud Technology Partners. We come in and talk about how do you do a hybrid cloud backup as a service, right? So we can advise customers on how to do that and build that into the experience. We acquired CloudCruiser, right? So we have the billing and the monitoring and everything that gets very, very granular on how you use that service, and that goes into how we bill customers on a per-metric usage format. And so we're able to package all of that up and we have, this is a kind of a little-known fact, very, very high NPS score for HPE financial services. Right, so the combination of our point next services, advisory, financial services, really puts a lot of meat behind GreenLake as a really good customer experience around elasticity. >> Okay, now all this stuff is gonna be available calendar Q4 of 2018, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay, so if you've seen videos like this before, we like to talk about what it is, how it works, and then we like to bring it home with the business impact. So thinking about these four announcements, and you can drill deeper on any one that you like, but I'd like to start, at least, holistically, what's the business impact of all of this? Obviously, you've got Cloud, we talked about some of the trends up front, but what are you guys telling customers is the real ROI? >> So, I think the big ROI is it moves secondary storage from a TCO conversation to an ROI conversation. Right, so instead of selling customers a solution where you're gonna have data that sits there waiting for something to happen, I'm giving customers a solution that's consumed as a service to be able to mine and utilize that secondary data, right? Whether it's for simple tasks like patch verification, application rollouts, things like that, and actually lowering the cost of your primary storage in doing that, which is usually pretty expensive from a storage perspective. I'm also helping customers save time, right? By providing these integrated experiences from primary to secondary to Cloud and making that automatic, I do help customers save quite a bit in OpEx from an operator perspective. And they can take those resources and move them on to higher impact projects like DevOps, CloudOps, things of that nature. That's a big impact from a customer perspective. >> So there's a CapEx to OpEx move for those customers that want to take advantage of GreenLake. [Patrick] Yep. >> So certain CFOs will like that story. But I think the other piece that, to me anyway, is most important is, especially in this world of digital transformation, I know it's a buzzword, but it's real. When you go to talk to people, they don't wanna do the heavy lifting of infrastructure management, the day-to-day infrastructure management. A lot of mid-size customers, they just don't have the resources to do it anymore. >> Correct. >> And they're under such pressure to digitize, every company wants to become a software company. Benioff talks about that, Satya Nadella talks about that, Antonio talks about digital transformation. And so it's on CEOs' minds. They don't want to be paying people for these mundane tasks. They really wannna shift them to these digital transformation initiatives and drive more business value. >> Absolutely. So you said it best, right, we wanna drive the customer experience to focusing on high-value things that'll enable their digital transformation. So, as a vision, what we're gonna keep on providing, and you've seen that with InfoSight on Nimble, InfoSight for 3PAR, and our vision around AI for the data center, these tasks around data protection, they're repeatable tasks, how to protect data, how to move data, how to mine that data. So if we can provide recommendations and some predictive analytics and experiences to the customers around this, and essentially abstract that and just have the customers focus on defining their SLA, and we're worried about delivering that SLA, then that's a huge win for us and our customers. And that's our vision, that's what we're gonna be providing them. >> Yeah, automation is the key. You've got some tools in the toolkit to help do that and it's just gonna escalate from here. It feels like we're on the early part of the S-curve and it's just gonna really spike. >> Absolutely. >> All right, Patrick. Hey, thanks for coming in and taking us through this news, and congratulations on getting this stuff done and we'll be watching the marketplace. Thank you. >> Great. Kudos to the team, great announcement, and we look forward to working with you guys again. >> All right, thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante on theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube. Covering VMWorld 2017, brought to you by VMWare and it's ecosystem partners. >> Okay welcome back everyone live here at VMWorld 2017 behind us we got the stage here set on the VMVillage, a lot of people hanging out, I'm John Furrier with Dave Alante our next guest is Vish Muichand who's the Senior Director of Product Manager HPE, Cube alumni Eric Burgener, Research Director at IDC. Guys welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks very much John. >> Vish, lot of storage action going on VMWare, you see Vsan, the cloud's here, true private cloud report from Wikibonds off the charts, showing a huge growth on prem, cloud operations, storage is impacted. What's the dots that we're connecting here this week? What's the storage story this week? >> So clearly there's a lot of different things happening in the marketplace right, different modes of operation and that in itself is demanding different approaches to infrastructure. So I think what you are seeing in the industry a variety of different approaches in storage, right? Whether it's external storage, whether it's software-defined storage, whether it's hyperconversions, or that's all flash storage. All of these things are coming together and trying to respond to the needs of data and how you want to process that data. >> We've been talking with, we talk to you guys a lot on the Cube, HP Discover, and we always say software's eating the world, we just heard Sanjay Punin from VMWare talking about it, he likes to drop that soundbyte. We take it one step further. He's a Harvard MBA, we got the bapsen mojo here. We say if software's eating the world, then data's eating software. So you guys have had a software core competence and you mentioned data. What is the impact and compromise, more and more data comes in from the edge, this primary, this secondary storage, this backup this data protection, it seems to be like this melting pot of changing architectures. How are you guys handling that at HP? >> Filling software is a very key element because it provides you with those capabilities, right? To really deal with the logical instantiation of assets and in this very virtualized world, this very dynamic world right now, gone are the days where you can do hardware type desegregation. Software gives you that speed, that agility, it gives you that flexibility. Gives you the changeability to move quickly. >> Eric you're at IDC you guys, this is your job. You guys track the market share, you guys have the pulse it's like keeping track of the baseball game. What inning, how are the Red Sox doing? Are they in first place are the Yankees catching up? What is the current state of the server virtualization because you know certainly the game's changing a little bit the world's going to cloud. What are you guys seeing in your research? >> Well so obviously most mainstream computing is running on virtualization, whether that's in the cloud or that's on prem. There's very little physical infrastructure left. There is still some of that but clearly that is not the future, virtualization is the future. >> So I wonder if I may, so you're saying virtualization is the future, so I wonder if we can unpack that a little bit because the theme here is cloud and everything is cloud related. Is your feeling, Eric, that that's sort of over your skis marketing, getting ahead of where the customer really is, I wonder if you could sort of elaborate. >> I think what the customers are really looking for is an easier way to do their jobs for less cost. And cloud provides that flexibility that you don't necessarily get if you're managing your own on-premise infrastructure, that's not 100% true based on some scale issues, but by and large, I think that's really what cloud brings to the table is a different payment model, and a flexibility that you wouldn't necessarily have with on prem infrastructure. >> So what are you guys seeing, do you feel as though the on-prem infrastructure leaders like HP, there are others obviously, are going to be able to bring that cloud-like simplicity to what do you call private cloud or whatever on-prem, is that happening, how fast is it happening, is it viable? >> Yeah so I absolutely think that's happening, in fact that's one of the reasons why software-defined storage is growing so fast is those type of products give you the kind of agility that you would normally get from a cloud environment and if you're running that on prem and you've implemented the right infrastructure around it then you're getting many of those same kind of benefits. Now you're paying for that hardware and software in a different manner than you do for the cloud, but you're getting many of those IT agility benefits that you might otherwise get from the cloud. >> And Dave, you know HP's tagline is Making Hybrid IT Simple right and so our point of view is that there is both on premise and off premise, just depending on what the usage models are and what the problems you're trying to solve, right. And bringing that simplicity where you may be going from a 100% on premise to maybe 20% off, but we've also seen some people at 50% off premise trying to come back a little bit on premise, right? So both directions I think are very very key. >> Is your point of view and I want Eric if you could chime in as well, from HPE's perspective, is hybrid IT sort of horses for courses in other words, workloads on prem versus workloads off prem, or is it beyond that some kind of federation model? >> So we see three key use cases. The first is of course wholesale, applications running on the cloud. Office 365, the perfect example of that, Sharepoint, Dropbox right, that's one. Then there is what I would call disaster recovery as a service, where you may want to have your third site in the cloud even though you got two sites on premise. Then there's also the third use case or in archiving that says how do I archive a portion of my data maybe into the cloud so it is online, but I don't have to manage it and I don't have to maybe deal with some of the associated costs around it. So these are the three sort of cases I see. >> Dave: Okay, what are you seeing in the customer base, Eric? >> Well so I completely agree that hybrid cloud is the way data centers are going to be built going forward. There are reasons to keep certain workloads on prem, generally there's performance, security or some kind of regulatory requirements that might make you put workloads on prem versus putting them in the cloud. It also depends on how often you're using the data. So Vish mentioned archive use cases. So that's a case where you need a lot of storage capacity that you keep for a long time but you may not necessarily be accessing it that much. If you're going to be accessing data a lot, that's another reason why you might consider bringing it on prem, as opposed to leaving it off prem. And of course the access, the costing access models that you get from people like Amazon and Azure are going to impact where you draw the line on that. >> So is there a difference between multi-cloud, I got a bunch of different clouds in my organization, I'm going to choose where to put stuff and cross-cloud sometimes you call it inter-clouding was, I like that term. >> Vish: You could dual source your cloud. >> And either dual source or federate or actually split application work. >> So I have seen several different aspects of that. So a customer has said to me that they need to move 20% of their data off premise, to do that they need two cloud vendors, and to get to two cloud vendors they need to see four or five of them so they can narrow it down and they they says okay, HPE all of the data that I have today is in your premise or with your equipment, how are you helping us broker that kind of arrangement. What are you doing to help federate some of that data? And work with some of these cloud vendors. So I think that's an interesting customer ask. >> Okay, well there's also cost consideration because if you multi-source or you have the opportunity to multi-source, you've got a competitive environment that's going to drive lower costs for you. As opposed to if you just got one choice. The other issue there is data mobility. If I'm locked into cloud vendor one, and it's very difficult, there's major switching costs to move, then that's another reason that might offset the potential price advantage I get from being able to go to any vendor. So there's a lot of vendors out there now, infrastructure vendors that are talking about making it easier to move data on prem to off prem, into different clouds from cloud to cloud and I think that's something that creates a more level playing field that really is going to ultimately result in lower costs. >> That's a great point about the costs, we'll just double down a quick question on that. Where are customers tripping over themselves in terms of total cost of ownership because what you're getting at here is hidden costs, right in plain sight. What are those trip fault wires if you will? What's the pitfalls what should they be looking for? >> Well, so I'll give you a general answer to that, but I think that it's very specific to workload type and the regulatory requirements that you're in but I'll tell ya one of the cases where we see repatriation, workloads moving from the cloud back into on prem is when you get to a certain level of scale. And the largest enterprises. >> John: Scale in terms of when to bring it back? >> Well just in terms of how >> or when to leave >> So how much data do I need to basically maintain in this environment and use on a regular basis. And the larger scale environments are the one where larger enterprises are able to actually bring back, create their own cloud infrastructure on prem, with their own environments and actually manage that for less cost than what they could otherwise pay a public cloud provider. >> So just to take it one step further, connect the next dot, the CXO, the CIO has to try to get some stability and there's some uncontrollable things certainly in retail it's predictable that the holiday season needs bursting or whatever so you do some things in the cloud but that's a known pattern, so you're saying that they're starting to recognize some of these scale issues for predictability they bring them on prem. Is that kind of what I'm getting? >> Well so the scale from a cost point of view, so if you're creating your own private cloud infrastructure and you're using the same kind of highly agile software to find storage designs to build that environment, you somewhat have the same ability to burst. Now yeah, you have to buy the hardware and there's redeployment issues and hopefully when we move forward towards much more composable infrastructure that becomes a lot easier problem to solve but that's you know some years in the future. But what I'm really talking about it's the cost. If I'm going to be maintaining a five petabyte data set over a ten year period, and I know what my access patterns are, is it cheaper to put that in Amazon or is it cheaper for me to build an infrastructure in house and maintain that myself. >> That's a great point. That's huge and Vish what's your reaction, is this basically validates all the action going on on the private cloud right now, on prem activity is setting up the cloud models. They can't do that unless you have the operating model. >> I'll talk about two things right, one called Cloud Bank and another one called Nimble Cloud Volumes and soon to be called HPE Cloud Volumes. So Cloud Bank allows you to take on premise data running on a three part array, and actually take a portion of that data onto either an on premise object store or an off premise object store. And we call that Cloud Bank working together with something called Recovery Managed Central and store once bringing that cloud picture together. Now the HPE cloud volumes on Nimble Cloud Volumes, it's another interesting concept where you have a cloud service that's block storage service, but it gives you the six nines SLA, it gives you the ability to do snapshots and transform data without a lot of charges that Eric talked about. It gives you the ability to move the data to different clouds because it's disagregated from the major cloud providers, it's connected via a close proximity connection so these are just two examples I think that show you how putting these used cases into action. >> Hey can we geek out a little bit here? (laughter) >> Aren't we geeking out now? You want to go deeper? >> So people want simplicity, we know that, we're talking about bringing cloud on prem. How do they get there? Well one of the ways is VVOLs, we sort of been talking about this, they haven't really taken off. Eric you've written some content around this. Like you said off camera, customers don't wake up in the morning and say I got to get me some VVOLs. But they do want simplicity. >> Absolutely, yeah. >> What are VVOLs, why do they matter, and how does it relate to simplicity. >> So yeah, let's talk a little bit about that. So what everybody no matter whether they're putting storage in the cloud, they're building on prem, they're building a private cloud, everybody wants to be able to manage their environments more easily, more intuitively, and one of the things that we've seen as a trend over the last five years is in general across the industry, storage mangement tasks are migrating away from dedicated storage admin teams, more towards IT generalists. In many cases, those are the virtual administrators. To enable that kind of a move, you need to make storage much easier to manage. So the whole idea behind VVOLs is to basically allow a non-storage person who maybe thinks about things in terms of I'd like to do this operation to an application for example, I've got Oracle running or I've got this file system here and I want to create a snapshot of it or I want to do some other task on it. To be able to just select it at the application level and perform that operation, that's very intuitive, it's easy for a non-storage person to understand and VVOLs effectively enables that kind of an ease of use management in block based environments. >> An application view of the storage? >> That's right, and I mean it's effectively it ties storage operations to a single virtual machine, and basically you're running an app on a virtual machine and so that's how you get that tie in in that way. But one other thing I'll say about VVOLs is that so it's not just what VMWare provides, there's some work that needs to be done on the storage array side to integrate with that management framework. And then how that vendor has chosen to integrate with that framework is going to determine the functionality that you have access to when you're using that VVOLs API. >> And how have you chosen to integrate with that framework? >> Yeah so Dave if you look at VVOLs, both HPE and HPE 3Par nimble have bene very very strongly focused on VVOLs in fact we've been working with VMWare gosh over the last five years now, on the reference architecture for VVOLs. Most recently we've now introduced replication support for both 3Parand nimble platforms with VVOLs and I think that capability now within VVOLs is a very important watershed capability because everybody needs resilience, disaster recovery. >> Automation's right around the corner, orchestration all big topics here at VMWorld. >> Correct and so that's a very key piece. And I think if you look at to Eric's point around simplicity, VVOLs is one key area. Two layers maybe I'd like to highlight as well. Number one is the visibility to what the application sees and within the Nimble community, they've talked about this app data gap, which is the applications not knowing why they can't get access to data and so this notion of bringing that level of understanding visibility to that gap saying is it in your computer infrastructure, is it in storage, is it in the network? So this notion of VMVision, Infosight, the Nimble (inaudible) because you're going to bring out the rest of the HPE portfolio I think is very key around simplicity. The third thing let's not forget, VMWare's built a whole ecosystem of management platforms around V-Center, V-Realize operations, all the orchestration and operation pieces and so continuing to integrate and offer customers that view is very key, right, so three prong vector I would say on making things simple. >> Also it gives HPE discovers coming up in Madrid shortly. Congratulations good to see you, Eric thanks so much for stopping by and sharing the IDC perspective. Great job, live coverage here at VMWorld 2017, I'm John Furrier, Dave Alante we'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break. >> Thank you.